I've been following the NYC five boroughs thread and I don't easily find the information I'm looking for in it.

I hope those of us with antennas can start a thread restricted only to the status of Over-The-Air broadcasts from NYC to the metro area. Not CT, not PA, and not any other state a strange bounce may have enabled you to get. Antennas and amps are already covered in different threads, so let's leave them out too.

I'd also like to keep cable out of this entirely since one has to pay for cable, and not all systems carry HDTV, much less the NY/NJ channels.

So, with luck, we'll get some interested and informed members keeping us up to date on the politics and engineering efforts to restore the signals that died on 9/11. I'd like to see information on dates, power (temp low or full) and channels. I suspect there are a lot of us that would like that info too.

Please add any information you may have to the thread. If it's a bad thread, it'll die. But hey, that's evolution in action.

Rick

I'm with you! What's up with this? Didn't I read that we should expect something in the Fall? Any updates?

I just talked to one of the maintenance guys in local. He was telling me about delays that Empire threw into the mix. Like during a site inspection, our chief walked into the room only to find a fully staffed medical office with patients!!!!! ESB is milking rent for all they can get.
November 1st is a date he mentioned. However, we have options with several transmitters in the building. We could have one up and running as soon as the combiner is set up.
I didnt hear about Fridays conference call. It was to have been about legal and operations issues with the CE's.
More when I find out.
GT

Thanks George,
Please keep us posted. there are a few of us with antennas out here who just want to get more than CSI!!!!
Steve

i keep hearing the 1st of sept for abc and aug 31st for nbc.

Thanks, George. I'm wondering if you have any information on the radiated power and coverage of the new ESB transmitters. I'm hoping they'll be close to the ones on the WTC so I can receive them here in NJ.

Unfortunately, given the ugly politics that have cropped up about the location for a new antenna, or even a temporary one on Governors Island, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new transmitters at a much lower power than the old ones, or with different footprints that ignore much of NJ, while the NYC stations wait to see what happens when the dust clears.

Rick

finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.

Originally posted by hobojoe
finally, a real ota only nyc thread! no more stupid mets schedules, please.

What about Mets OTA WPIX schedules? :D

Joe

Joe - I think that's a good question but I don't think it belongs in this thread. I think a better question would be "Does anyone know when WPIX will go back to their originally-assigned UHF channel, and what its power level and coverage will be compared to pre-9/11."

I miss the Mets' broadcasts too, but in this thread the schedule is really irrelevant. Even when WPIX does resume broadcasting, I would like this thread to concentrate only on reception issues. I think schedules of Mets' games should have its own thread..

I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.

Rick

I tried to tune in WEDW-49 (PBS-Bridgeport) or WLIW-22 (PBS-Plainview) last night to watch the Tom Petty concert but could not get a digital signal (got analog OK).

Tried again earlier today and got the same results... Plus WTNH-10 (ABC-NH) was DOA as well. CSI was A-OK last night (empire).

What gives? Anyone got a digital signal from PBS? Soundstage is on again tonight.

Thanks.

I checked out soundstage last night also. Came in fine on WLIW-DT from North Jersey.

got to view tom petty on 49 wedw no prob last night. abc 10 was fine also. could be your set up.

Thanks guys, I'll review my gear setup and where the rotor is pointing my antenna. Empire State Building stuff is fine, so the problem must be the rotor position.

Ok, I just checked the schedule and the Giants are on MNF the second week of the season, September 15th. Think we're going to have ABC-HD by then?

MC

Can we please keep this to NYC HD channels? There are other threads that address receiving PA/CT stations, antennas, rotors, and so forth.

I'm purposely trying to keep this thread limited to the status, strength, and estimated on-air dates of NYC channels.

Thanks.

Rick

Originally posted by cpto
I hope we can stay focused here solely on information regarding the going-live dates, power, and coverage of the returning NY OTA HDTV channels.

Ok Rick, for what it is worth I will give a little summary of what channels I can receive and my equipment.

I have an RCA DTC-100, a UHF/VHF Radio Shack antenna and a Radio Shack amp. I am located in Plainview, NY, which is right in the middle of Long Island (north to south) and on the Nassau/Suffolk border. With the antenna pointed to NYC I receive the following digital signals:
WCBS 2-1 (Strong with great HD)
FOX 5-1 (Strong but not HD)
WOR 5-2 (Strong but lousy picture quality)
WPIX 11-1 (12-1,75-1) (Good with great HD, a few breakups)
WLIW 21-1 (Fair with great HD, many breakups, but watchable)

If I turn my antenna North toward CT I can receive:
WTNH (ABC) on channel 10-1 (Good with great HD, a few breakups)

As far as the return of some NY OTA channels, the man to ask is George Thompson. The last post I read from him said "Early Sept is a little too optimistic I think" but he does believe the ESB combiner will be going this fall.

Hope this helps,
Joe

George - Is there anything we can do to get ABC up in time for MNF (i.e. letters to the FCC, network heads, contributions)? I know this has been a herculean task getting everyone to agree on the combiner but aren't the networks even a bit embarrassed how long this is taking? Its not like we are in the #1 DMA or anything. ;)

For what it's worth, I recently sent a letter to the WSJ. Don't know if it will do any good but at least they might think about it...

I would like to suggest a possible article for the WSJ. This has been widely discussed in the HDTV areas of avsforum (www.avsforum.com).

The destruction of the World Trade Center building had an enormous effect on the Nation. Congress rapidly passed bills authorizing payments to those who lost their lives, and pledged billions more to help the city. It seemed that the US came together following 9/11.

Yet one aspect has been largely ignored. Before 9/11, NYC, the number one television market, had HDTV broadcasts for the three major networks, Channel 11, and a digital signal from FOX. Following the attack, only channels 2 and 5 remained (with channel 9 sharing channel 5's bandwith).

One might think that in a time of crisis the area would have pulled together to provide rapid installation of the antennas that were lost. Possibly the best site - Governors Island - was rapidly rejected by the mayor. Problems with government agencies and local townships caused the collapse of efforts to install transmitters in NJ.

Finally, the stations "agreed" to piggyback on the transmitters that were in place in the Empire State Building. Some problems were real - such as the need to run new power lines up to the top of the building or to get new equipment. Others were money - there appears to have been a lot of conflict and negotiating over the rates CBS (and perhaps FOX) would charge other networks to piggyback their signals. The "long-term" interrim goal is to build a $M 50 temporary tower on Governors Island. All that means is more delay and an increase in advertising rates as the local stations cover their costs.

Two facts seem to have been forgotten. Broadcast TV is a means of reaching almost everyone in the metro area that has a television set, regardless of whether thay have cable. And, the FCC is pushing the conversion to digital of all broadcast stations.

I know this is not a story of major interest, but I think it does indicate how the interests of the public are subsumed to politics - even when the interest is the potentially critical one of being to receive television news and programming. Approximately 2.1 million ditigal sets were sold in 2002 - see http://www.digitaltelevision.com/2002/april/digital_1.shtml - so the market is not small.

In summary, it would be interesting to see the WSJ investigate the delays in getting a permanent solution to NYC digital transmission. Something is going on here - money or politics - and the end result is that the public is being shortchanged.

Sincerely,

Nice letter and article idea, cpto. Perhaps as a sidebar to such an article, or as an editorial, the WSJ could consider how misguided greed and politics blocking reestablishng NYC HDTV might be considered assisting the goals of the terrorists. -- John

I'm still baffled as to why the stations and the MTVA did not flex any of their considerable PR muscle with regards to the best location (Governors Island) as the permanent site. They just asked the Mayor, he said no, and they just said "ok". Can you imagine the PR nightmare for City Hall if there had been ANY media reports on how the Mayor is laying off cops and firefighters and cutting all kinds of services, yet he summarily rejects a project that would bring millions of dollars in taxes to the city coffers, simply because it doesn't agree with his "vision" for the island?

Hey Bloomberg, when you have a budget crisis such as this one you can't afford a "vision"!

I just don't understand why the MTVA didn't exploit this angle. If they had, the permanent tower on Governors Island would already be on its way.

Vic - very nice comments. Maybe you should mail them to the NYT and WSJ. I hadn't considered the tax loss NYC will experience by refusing the Governors Island Site.

Rick

PS - Nice to see you in the thread!

hoboken, nj. i have a great view of the esb. 2.1(56)-100%, 5.1/2(44)-100%, 11.1/2(12)-95%, 13.1/2/3(61)-98%. now, wliw-dt22, for some reason, wont register when i try to add it to my channel list. during the day it comes in at 30%, but after 11pm it comes in at around 80%. i'm using a sony sat-hd100 with a radio shack vu190 or vu120. can't remember exactly, but its pretty big. no preamp, no amp. btw, its not like i hate the mets or anything, its just that the other nyc thread was really getting off topic and tv schedules kept popping up almost every day. so anyone else having problems with 22?

Good thread, let's not let it get away. I love the news about ABC and NBC!! I live in East Rockaway, south shore of LI. With a RS rooftop UHF/VHF I'm getting very strong (west)CBS, FOX, and UPN.WPIX is maddeningly inconsistent-some days its in the 50's (on my RCA DTC100) and others its in the 30's, and not watchable. Met games looked very good, (as good as FSNY and MSG from CV) and so did Smallville. With a set top RS amplified antenna, I get a good signal (east)on WLIW-DT on 22-2,3. HD looked superb (Tom Petty was very colorful and sharp). I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24), PBS (61) or WLNY (57).

Originally posted by hayt
I have had no luck with WNYE (channel 24) WNYE-DT was last on the air about 1.5 years ago.

For the last several weeks, and again last night during Smallville, I've tried to find WPIX-DT and I get nothing, not even "weak signal." I live in Stamford, and I'm using a Winegard 9095 aimed at NYC, a Winegard AP4800 preamp and a DTC-100. Last night signal strengths for CBS and Fox were in the high 80s, and WLIW was in the 40s (but erratic, sometimes diving into the 20s), but no indication of any signal at all from WPIX. I understand that WPIX is broadcasting with low power, but shouldn't I get something? If I hadn't read otherwise here, I would think that WPIX, like ABC and NBC, was not broadcasting OTA. Is it me or WPIX?

Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.

Martin

Originally posted by MrMartin
Bob, as your current Winegard 9095 is UHF antenna only, you will not be able to receive WPIX until station changes from their temporary VHF channel 12 to UHF 33.

Martin

I was afraid that something like that was going to be the answer. Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33?

Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.

I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?

Is there anyone out there in the Hudson Valley? I live in Poughkeepsie, NY. I think our chances of EVER getting OTA reception a slim and none. Maybe if they build the 1776 foot tower at the WTC site.

Originally posted by Bob Hawley
. . . Do we know when WPIX is expected to change to UHF 33? Trying to answer my own question, I read the 19 pages of the WPIX thread, and no one seems to know for sure. The best guess seems to be that WPIX will go full power on UHF channel 33 from the ESB when the other digital stations begin broadcasting from the ESB. Which cannot happen soon enough, so far as I'm concerned.

I'm less than 18 miles from ESB and can only get around 30 percent with a silver sensor and a myhd card. I tried an rca ant200 also and wasn't any better

This is my first time in this particular part of the forum, so I'm sure this is going to sound very newbyish. I haven't seen anyone from Manhattan yet post to this thread and I'm wondering if it's because no one can get decent reception here. I was considering getting an OTA box but was told that 8-VSB doesn't work so well in metropolitan areas (supposedly it has difficulty with multipath issues created by moving vehicles, planes, etc. Is this true? Or are people smack dab in the middle of the city in fact able to enjoy OTA HDTV?

Thanks.

I've emailed the chief engineer of WPIX asking if they intend to boost the power on 12 and when they anticipate switching to 33. I'll post his response when I get it.

Originally posted by Vermonster
This is my first time in this particular part of the forum, so I'm sure this is going to sound very newbyish. I haven't seen anyone from Manhattan yet post to this thread and I'm wondering if it's because no one can get decent reception here. I was considering getting an OTA box but was told that 8-VSB doesn't work so well in metropolitan areas (supposedly it has difficulty with multipath issues created by moving vehicles, planes, etc. Is this true? Or are people smack dab in the middle of the city in fact able to enjoy OTA HDTV?

Thanks.

Manhattanites don't watch TV - there's too much else to do. ;)

I have seen some Manhattan residents post in the local NYC-NJ forums and I do seem to recall a good number of them having reception issues.

For those receiving WLIW, exactly what channel is it? I've seen so many different channels listed for it. I'm never able to pick it up with the channels I've inputed, but I see that some people from NJ (I'm about 10-15 miles from NYC) get it. I have my antenna pointed at the ESB, but also have a rotator so I'm flexible. Am I just too far away at this point?

No you're not too far. I'm in Parsippany and I can pick it up with my indoor UHF antenna with a preamp. It's Ch. 22 from Plainview, LI. 22-1 and 22-2 which will map to virtual 21-1 and 21-2.

I guess we really need some local expertise on this. I spent almost an hour trolling through the FCC pages and search engines and couldn't find any specific dates approved by the FCC for WABC-DT and WNBC-DT.

If anyone can point to the current FCC sapprovided build-out date for the remaining NYC stations could you please post it here?

Thanks.

Rick

All stations on the ESB are covered by extensions....... no specific date.
GT

Thanks, George. That's sort of what I got from the FCC pages. I would think that the FCC would be a little more up front about the public licenses and extensions it grants...

Rick

I'm in NJ (Morris County) and getting CBS and FOX just fine. I would suspect NBC and ABC would be put up with equal strength. As there doesn't appear to be a nearterm decision on the new tower, I don't think they would limit the power for that reason.


Originally posted by cpto
Thanks, George. I'm wondering if you have any information on the radiated power and coverage of the new ESB transmitters. I'm hoping they'll be close to the ones on the WTC so I can receive them here in NJ.

Unfortunately, given the ugly politics that have cropped up about the location for a new antenna, or even a temporary one on Governors Island, I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new transmitters at a much lower power than the old ones, or with different footprints that ignore much of NJ, while the NYC stations wait to see what happens when the dust clears.

Rick

from a fellow manhattanite to another 8-VSB rocks and it works better than you can imagine. btw the double bowtie on the floor of my apt picked up all the digital stations in the NYC metro area pre-9/11 and at high signal levels. stations received back then OTA were WCBS, WNBC, WNYW, WABC, WWOR, WPIX, WNET, WNYE. So as you can see my first hand experience with OTA 8-VSB has been truly amazing. all you need is a RS double bowtie and you're in business. line of sight is not required either. the double bowtie is UHF only so if you want to receive WPIX then you'll need a VHF antenna as well.

Cool,

You said you got all those channels pre-911. How many do you get now?

i get the following OTA stations w/ an RCA DTC100 and the RS Double Bowtie.

WCBS-DT at signal level 79
WYNY-DT at signal level 75

that's with the double bowtie oriented NorthEast away from the ESB. I have north facing windows and my signal levels are higher when I point the antenna towards the window. i'm on the 3rd floor which is not very high up btw.

that's it unfortunately. i haven't tried WPIX-DT since you need a VHF antenna for that. If you want more stations then TWC-NYC offers the above in addition to the following:

WNBC-DT
WABC-DT
WNET-DT
SHOHD
HBOHD

??WPIX-DT recently added and subsequently dropped

Bill - I'm 22 air miles from the ESB. Even with a rotor, amp, and "fringe" antenna, the NYC stations are very susceptible to degradation from rain, snow, and UFO's cruising around Manhattan.

I suspect that at least some of your problem comes from the lousy weather we've had in the last couple of weeks. Since lower UHF channels on the whole have to have a greater range I'm wondering why WCBC-DT accepted channel 56 instead of one of the lower ones that would give it greater coverage. Maybe they had nothing to say about it but it reminds me of the fights I've read about in the early days of TV broadcasting where the networks were fighting for the lower VHS channels and PBS usually got one of the higher ones.

Maybe that's why CBS-DT drops out when FOX-DT is still fine (Fine in the sense of the signal, not the type of digital signal they're transmitting).

Rick

Originally posted by Bill Broderick
Over the last week or two, my reception of CBS & Fox has not been great. I used to get both of these stations at a solid 100 signal strength (Toshiba DST-3000). Now they are both fluctuating between high 70's low 80's.

I'm in western Suffolk County. Has anyone else been having reception problems lately?

Personally, I'm trying to figure out why my CBS ch 56 signal is anywhere from 50s to 100 signal strenght but FOX NY 44 ranges from teens to 51 strength.

and even when I have a 51 strength, the picture pixelates and does not stay steady. I'm assuming that Fox is transmitting at lower(??) and that I'm getting intererence.

why only on 44 though since they both transmit from ESB?

BTW, I have 2 ant in attic (4228 facing north for CT, and RS V120 facing towards NY into combiner with CM preamp) and live about 60 mi from ESB

Ponnie - sounds like you're not doing badly for that distance from NYC. I'm about 22 air miles away in NJ and both channels are very susceptible to weather - even fog.

Rick

Bump

George - a post in the HD Programming Forum confirms that ABC intends to start transmitting HD Monday Night Football with the Hall of Fame Game on August 4. Please please please tell me they are making progress with the combiner atop ESB. I know the 8/4 game is impossible if not unlikely but I hope the first regular season game is not out of the question.

ponnie1996

I have noticed the same problem the only conclusion I can come to and I have yet to confirm this is that WCBS-DT may be broadcasting at a higher ERP than WNYW-DT. Also placement on the main antenna mast at the ESB could possibly effect recption as well.

One other thing I noticed to is during heavy rain fall WNYW-DT's signal really drops off significantly.

Ok, here is the latest. We just signed the CBS contract this morning. I think everyone else has signed too. Now it is up to the ESB lawyers to sign off on the lease agreement. That should happen soon and the combiner will be authorized for final construction. 60-90 days. Most likely November.

I don't remember if WNYW-DT is using the mast on the 84th floor parapit or the flat panel bolted to the side of a building down town but they are only running about 250W. The VHF's on ESB have to power down and use the parapit antenna at night since mast work is going on to put the analog antennas back on the mast. Later this year they will be up there too.

GT

George

That explains it. I have noticed that after 1am on some week nights and every weekend for the past 3-4 weeks WNYW-DT would drop off the map. I heard from CBS engineering that there was some work going on up there but iI had no idea that there was mojor work going on.

Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by George Thompson
I don't remember if WNYW-DT is using the mast on the 84th floor parapit or the flat panel bolted to the side of a building down town but they are only running about 250W. Are you sure about this? Could you have been thinking of WPIX-DT (12) or WNET-DT (61) instead of WNYW-DT (44).

I am frantically looking for a back issue of an industry mag that showed a pix of the mast on the setback up there and said what stations they were. There were several stations mentioned by the CE when I talked to him this morning....... I may be confused. My appologies. I will set this straight.
GT

EDIT
WNET-DT is 250W and on the 81st floor setback. NYW-DT is up on the mast,(no mention of power). Article in 1/03 BE magazine. Still, during mast work stations move to alternate antennas on 81.

Any idea if WPIX is going to boost their signal or switch to UHF 33 any sooner? Their 0.125kW doesn't get as far as me very well.

So are we saying NBC and ABC should be up by November?

Originally posted by George Thompson
WNET-DT is 250W and on the 81st floor setback. NYW-DT is up on the mast,(no mention of power). Article in 1/03 BE magazine. Still, during mast work stations move to alternate antennas on 81. When did WNET-DT move to the Empire State Building? I was under the impression that they were temporarily on a different building near Penn Station.

Maybe someone here can help me.
I live on Long Island, in an apartment with a central Antenna. As of now, it picks up the regular NYC stations well.
My TV is a HDTV plasma panel - Pioneer 4330HD. Dual NTSC tuners.
When I go through the antenna terminal, if I tune TV to any of the HD channels I get only snow.
Is there something else I need to get OTA HD?

If not, looks like I am stuck with 4 HD channels since that's all CV provides as of now.

Thank you

You need an OTA set-top box. NTSC tuners tune regular old analog stations.

George - thanks for your continuing updates. You're a real jewel of information for those of us in the NYC metro area.

Again, thanks for continuing to contribute your knowledge to this thread!

Rick

ok, WB is transmitting once again tg. the question is will the Mets be in in hd tonite, since the last couple of weeks i noticed no hd prg on.


john

I haven't read this thread for awhile. I thought somebody would have sent this by now. From what I read here and elsewhere. WNET-DT does transmit low power from their studios on I believe W33 ST. The antennas at Empire on the 81st Floor are Channel 13's back up VHF antennas which WPIX-DT is currently using to transmit low power on channel 12.

I keep trying to lock in on WPIX-DT. It's just too low power. I am in Morris County, NJ. Unfortunately, I don't have an outdoor antenna. I use the radio shack double bowtie uhf antenna. This antenna is great, it even detects the signal on ch 12, but doesn't lock in even close. I bought a simple VHF amp and hooked it up to a standard set of rabbit ear antennas. Still nothing. However, when I move the VHF antenna to a window, open the window, and stick it out of the window (north facing), the light on the STB is on more frequently, and every 2-10 seconds, I get a burst of 50% power on the signal strength meter, which then drops back to 0. Still can't lock in. Any suggestions? Is there a better indoor VHF type antenna? I think I'm stuck not getting it with my indoor setup though.

Any updates on when we'll get CBS and ABC in hi-def? Is early August still reasonable?

Of course Ricky means NBC and ABC

It is looking more like Nov :(

Regards

John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?

Thanks.

Rick

Originally posted by cpto
John - any source for the [additional] delay and what might be causing it?

Thanks.

Rick


Rick

Sorry for not being more precise I am relying on the info posted by Mr. Thomson on the previous page of this thread.

I am hoping November.

Did any one else have a problem?

Last night I had no problem getting reception from SW Nassau County. Even in the rain.
ie
2-1 100%
5-1 100%
5-2 100%
12-1 30%

Today
2-1 30%
5-1 0%
5-2 0%
12-1 0%

Perhaps they are working on the Broadcast antenna?

I am getting a 94 on CBS an 88 on Fox and a whooping 55 for PIX

Hey all. I've been lurking and learning for a while now and haven't had much to post about. I just picked up a silver sensor yesterday, since I don't want to commit to roof top antenna just yet. I have the panny D* hd receiver. Though I haven't subscribed to the hd package yet.

I live in Oceanside (s/w nassau county LI) and tried getting CBS last night. The show that was on was going in and out on a consistent basis. Is that due more to my distance to the ESB and/or antenna, or did the weather have anything to do with it. Or a combination?

Also, I noticed that scrolling through the guide, I didn't see a 4-1 channel set up, so I manually added channels and then there were additional 2, 4 ,5, channels that I added, but there weren't any more of the -1 channels. Will that be a problem in the future, and can I get back the default setup.

So is CBS the only NYC channel/network able to broadcast HD programming? I've read so many threads, that they've started to blend as one big mess. Any input would be helpful.

Fab,

Try moving the antenna around a bit while you check the antenna strength. Here in Bergen County, 20 mi from ESB, raising the antenna to the top of a speaker gives me a lock on CBS with no dropouts.

For now, CBS is the only OTA true HDTV that I can receive in Mahwah, NJ. Fox locks in also, but that is not HD.

If that fails, look into an antenna pre-amp. The HDTV Hardware section has lots of good info.

As you you can see from the previous posts, OTA in the NYC area will be getting much better very soon! NBC and ABC coming to the ESB this fall!! :D

Thanks Steve, I'll keep trying. This may sound stupid, but how do I check the antenna signal? I know how to check for the sat. signal. Is it in the same area? I guess I should check for myself before asking these questions. BTW, I really like ur hotels.

Fab,

I don't have a Hughes HDTV receiver, but the antenna strength/adjustment screen should be under "system test" or "setup". You should be able to see the signal strength as you adjust the antenna. See the post by "Lightly" a few prior to this one, that should give you an idea of your potential signal strengths...your mileage may vary.

Also, WPIX (12-1) is broadcasting at low power, but you'll need an antenna that covers VHF for that, your antenna is UHF only.

Thanks to cpto for keeping this thread for NYC area OTA ...we should be seeing more activity in this thread as we head towards fall!

(thanks for the thoughts about "my" hotels!...I only wish it were me! ) :D

There have been a lot of people in the NJ area (including me) that have more problems with CBS than FOX in inclement weather.

I know that CBS is at a higher frequency than fox (don't know about the effective radiated power though), but does anyone know what the net effect is? I also have the same problem with Philadelphia stations - the lower channels come through better than the higher ones.

I saw a map on CBS a couple of years ago that showed the estimated coverage area for DT-56. Is there any ready source for the other NY channels and the returning ones?

Thanks.

Rick

A couple of years ago Stark electronics was selling a CM parabolic 8-foot antenna for fringe reception. I was hoping that the gain might help make up for rain / fog / snow fade from WCBS but the antenna doesn't appear to be available any more.

Does any one have experience with this antenna, know where it might be found, or why it wouldn't help reception?

Thanks.

Rick

I received this very nice and thorough response from nitewatchman and am posting it here for you to enjoy. It's not too often we here get such a thorough response to a question.

Rick

Hello,

Saw your post asking about the parabolic UHF Dish antenna, and thought I'd reply via PM, as I'm not in your area -- Channel Master used to make these in I believe 6' and 7' diameter versions, but they have been discontinued for quite a while. Certianly, a fine antenna(Considered the best UHF antenna "ever" by some), but, due to it's size and shape, it also requires a lot of "mounting support" due to wind/ice loading. There's a nice pic of one on a 85' tower in the pics near bottom of this page(7' Channel master dish photo -- You'll probably need to right click and choose "show picture" to see the pic):

http://www.oldtvguides.com/DXPhotos/

Concerning WCBS-DT 56, along the lines of what you mentioned on the thread, it is certianly the case that becasue of the shorter wavelength's involved, much more power is necessary for a station operating on Hi-UHF channels than is the case on lower frequenices in order to cover the same area, and also, these high frequencies are also more "sensitive" "signal propagation wise" to terrain and other "environmental factors" ...

For example, RF absorbtion by leaves would be much more of a problem on 56 than on lower UHF channels or, even moreso for the much longer wavelengths of VHF. Rain and wind can also be a factor on these high frequencies --- Now, these "environmental factors" aren't really a BIG issue(although terrain/building blockage of signal is a big issue), but if you're dealing with a weak signal coming from your antenna to begin with, a little issue can appear like a big issue. (keep in mind, in nearly all cases, the "signal meters" on our receivers don't measure "signal strength" , it's a sort of "signal quality" meter, which is implemented on the "digital datastream" "side" of the receiver, not the "RF Signal" portion of the receiver ... For this reason, a actual, fairly weak signal, just over the "threshold" needed for good DTV reception can produce High readings on our receiver's meters.

It's also the case that some receving antennas don't do as good of a job on the higher UHF channels. VHF/UHF combo antennas, typcially don't do well on Hi-UHF, for example, although I have had good luck with hi-UHF local DT's here with the RS VU210 antenna, a a LARGE VHF/UHF Combo - which has also been discontinued. Also, Feedline incurs more signal loss the higher the frequency.

Really though, more "reasonably sized", and conventional UHF antennas such as the CM4248 Yagi, CM4228 Bowtie, and some of the European hi-gain antennas from Blake, Televes and Triax are pretty close to the performance wise to the "big dish", and one of these, outside up nice and high with a hi-gain/low noise preamp such as the CM7777 would come very close, if not exceeding the "Big dish's" performance.

Follows is info WCBS-DT's technical parameters from FCC CDBS database, concerning their currently licensed facilities. :

I pulled up WCBS-DT's current Technical paramenters, and given their TX antenna height on ESB(1345FT Above Sea Level), Non-directional antenna, and 349KW ERP power level for their licensed facility(According to FCC data, this is what they should be operating with unless their having Temporary technical problems that don't require issuance of a STA by FCC, or, to meet RF exposure regulations if anyone working on the ESB antennas). You might want to check with them to make sure, on the power, though. One of their Engineer's did start/post a thread recently in local AVS area, asking for reception reports.

If this is the power/antenna height they are operating with however, I'd think they should do a decent job getting out to as far away as around 50 Miles or so, although, the "fringe area guy" at 50 Miles+ from the ESB would likely want a very good antenna setup for UHF, as high as possible, with no terrain/signal blockage issues invloved....

As a bit of a comparision, In our area, for instance, we have a DT on 58 running 290KW ERP, which is being received well on a attic antenna from almost 60 miles distant! Their antenna height, while only about 1000 feet above average terrain, is over 2000FT above sea level.(Most of the terrain in this area, however, is between 600-1100 Feet above sea level).


WCBS-TV NY NEW YORK USA (Digital)

Licensee: CBS BROADCASTING INC.
Service Designation: DT "Full Service" TV Station or Application (digital)

Channel 56 (722-728 MHz) Licensed
File No.: BLCDT -19981026KG Facility ID No: 9610
CDBS Application ID No.: 276124

Antenna Structure Registration Number (ASRN): 1007048


40 ° 44' 54.00" Latitude Zone: 1
73 ° 59' 10.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None
Polarization: Horizontally Polarized (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 349. kW ERP
Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 397.0 meters HAAT
Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 410.0 meters RCAMSL
Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 395. meters RCAGL

Not directional
Not in a Border Zone

-----------------------------------

Anyhow, hope some of this helps, I enjoy looking at the NYC OTA thread, and I hope NYC can get the OTA situation back to "normal" as soon as possible. I know the NYC broadcasters are doing the best they can, but I can't help but think how much different things might be if we were in the 1960's or 70's, before cableTV ... Still, though, I may have missed it, but I'm surprised I haven't seen a Major News story concerning the loss of the WTC OTA transmitters.

Anyhow, take it easy,

Jeff in Middletown, Ohio

I have a cm4228, cm 7777 and rotor, just hooked everything up last night, im , located in sheepshead bay, brooklyn, about 12 miles from the esb. Eventhough the 4228 is a uhf only antenna, i still pick up all the vhf channels, the upper channels are the strongest. What also is very strange, just about any where i have the 4228 pointed, it will lock on my local dt channels, Isnt that amazingly odd ? Im running hd200, and dtc 100, and both are reacting the same, getting vhf, and, no matter where the antenna is pointed, it locks on 2.1,5.1,5.2,11.1,11.2,12.1,75.1,75.2,40.1 and 53:).Has any1 else experienced anything like this?The antenna is mounted on a one family house on a 10 foot pole.
Stan

Stan,

11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).
Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).

You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.

Joe

Seems that way Joe, i was kinda of shocked at first. I have minor problems with my rotor, as it seems to lock after a few turns clockwise, it, will always turn counter clockwise tho, major problem is even though it is not moving , the display is showing it moving to new setting, which throws the whole dam rotor off, and, i have no idea where its pointed at. Only thing that fixs it, is i go to my 1 preset for nyc[ highest signal] and do a synch, and that corrects the problem for a short period.I have to go back on the roof and make sure everything is properly alighned, im using a 5 foot pole for the dish, which is sitting on a 10 ' pole for the main mount.Also USING TB 105 SUPPORT BEARING, WHICH, may be out of whack.Any1 using a 4228 with a 5 ' pole and no tb 105 ?
Stan

Originally posted by JoeCraw
Stan,

11.1, 11.2, 12.1, 12.2, 75.1, 75.2 are all the same channel (WPIX).
Out in Plainview (with no rotor) I get all of the WPIXs, 2.1(CBS), 5.1(FOX), 5.2(UPN-low quality broadcast), 22.1 (WLIW-HD), 22.2 (WLIW-SD).

You must be so close to the signals, you don't need to point the antenna.

Joe

Do all of these broadcast from the ESB? I'm able to get CBS, FOX, and UPN,
but none of the others.

yes they do, but not at full power yet
Stan

Originally posted by dapope
yes they do, but not at full power yet
Correct, except for WLIW, which is from Long Island.

I no longer receive wpix's 75.01 & 02, are they still broadcasting these? I do receive wb's 11.01 & .02 also 12.01. a comment about fox, I thought there bernie mack show and there new show wanda looked really good


john

yes John, they're still on
Stan

If I could stick my head out the window, and turn sideways, I would see the ESB unobstructed, as I live 4 block and 5 avenues away. However, the window is ceiling to floor and does not open. Would an indoor antennae be sufficient to pull in HD, or since I am at an angle will my own apartment wall block me.
I have time warner cable now, but since I cannot record HD from that, I am hoping to build an HTPC, if that would work better. But if I cannot use an indoor antenae, I would need to wait for another option. Thanks for any help.
---Matt

Some in Manhattan report picking up ESB stations via reflections from other buildings. I can with very careful positioning of a Silver Sensor antenna (inches matter), pointing it about 70 degrees northward from the ESB. Image stability isn't the best (wouldn't want to record), but each site is unique. As more OTA's begin this fall, 8-VSB for recording may improve at some locations. A building master UHF/VHF antenna could help. Of course, about that time TWC may roll out HD-PVR converters, too. -- John

Finally signed up after years of lurking.

Since our cable service is very rudimentary and lacking features (any other NuVisions subscribers out there?) I went out and got me a Samsung T151 from J&R after they agreed to give me a break on the price. Since then I've been trying with very little success to get some DTV action going. :( We're all the way on the west side at around 70th on the 23rd floor with a W/NW view of the river and the GWB as well as an E/SE view of Central Park and downtown, and so far the two RS antenna's I've tried have only been able to pick up WCBS-DT on 56, with a lot of tweaking and wishing and praying. The models I've tried with were the 15-1838 (has a fine tuning dial on it, very frustrating to work with) and the 15-1880; both have preamps although the latter seems to have a higher gain. When checking signal strength it is clear how jumpy the reception is, going back and forth between 6-7 and 0, apparently also influenced by where I am in relation to the antenna. :confused:

The home theater and receiver are located on the west side of the apartment, with the rest of the building (and many other high rises as well) between the antenna and ESB. Since I am pretty sure there is no central antenna system in this building it seems to me that I am stuck with trying to get some sort of indoor antenna to work. Has anyone on the UWS had any luck at all getting anything more than WCBS-DT to come in, or should I just give up right now and return all this stuff to the store? I really want my HDTV, especially considering the abysmal quality I get with the regular TV offering from our current (and only) cable service. Any opinions, tips or testimonials from fellow-UWS'ers would be immensely appreciated!

Thanks for listening.

-P-

P.S.: Interestingly enough, it seems that NuVisions is relaying some HDTV programming over their cable system, which the T151 is actually able to pick up when set to "IRC" mode in the channel scan menu option. The signal is not great, between 4 and 5 bars, but it has no dropouts and stays steady at that level. This way I can get WCBS (2-1), WNYW (5-1, 5-2) and WLIW (22-1, 22-2) but I would rather try with an antenna and be able to try for the other available stations.

Thanks John.
Sadly my building discontinued maintaining the wiring from the roof antenae, as most everyone in the building has cable TV. I am hoping that they may re-use it, but from what I hear its the wiring in the walls that somehow went bad. I will likely get an indoor antenae soon, but will wait to see when ABC/NBC broadcast OTA, or if Time Warner will be forthcoming with an HD PVR.

pepijn,
Welcome to the forums. You might enter your location at antennaweb.org and see what NJ stations are nearby. If your windows don't block too much UHF/VHF there are various station options.

Yes, my Silver Sensor reception varies when I'm near it, and I once tinkered with a magazine-size chunk of aluminum foil as a reflection blocker. Helps at times. -- John

if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year. would anyone know why it isn't today.


john

Originally posted by jscnyc
if i remember pre-season football was in hd on cbs last year. I believe that is incorrect. I do not recall CBS ever doing a pre season game in HD.

you are right.thnx

john

I've been in a dead zone lately out in Northport. CBS has constant dropouts. I can't even pull WLIW-22 (do they broadcast in a 360 degree direction?). PBS out of Bridgeport drops in/out all the time. ABC-10 NH is well, the same.

As far as NYC, I presume it is related to the work going on? I use Dish, thinking about checking them out for CBS. Been dying a slow death since 9/11 round' here.

I grew up in E.Northport....nice area.

I don't mean to bash, but many people died a 'quick' death on 9/11 and to bitch about it b/c of tv reception seems a bit misguided.

I don't mean to bash, but many people died a 'quick' death on 9/11 and to bitch about it b/c of tv reception seems a bit misguided.
Yea, I hear ya. Not talkin' about dead people though. Talkin' about dead/dying air waves.

Originally posted by Ricky
Any updates on when we'll get NBC and ABC in hi-def? Is early August still reasonable? I am now hearing January.

This is really getting more than a bit absurd.

Who are you hearing this from?

Originally posted by Bogney Baux
I am now hearing January.

Oh come on!!! What happened to November? This has got to be a joke. George - If you are out there, is there any truth to this statement? :mad:

antennaweb.org is now saying Dec 31st for ABC and NBC. this sucks!

Yeah, it sucks. If two of the majors are taking their time broadcasting digitally to the #1 metro area it appears they'll be dragging their feet in the future over giving up their analog stations.

1. People in Metro NY didn't buy digital sets because our transmitter was down for 2+ years.

2. Therefore, we need two additional years to allow the market to catch up to the rest of the country.

Hard to believe that the ESB - the new transmitter site - was built in only a year. Were these network clowns in charge they'd only be up to the 30th floor today.

Rick

Rick, funny but true! :D

Anyone getting gray bars on CBS. I thought it might be my STB but I tried another and still get gray bars. Argggg!

Originally posted by John Tuohy
Anyone getting gray bars on CBS.
Yes, I am also getting the gray bars. I am also getting the football game from the CBS Seattle station by way of Canadian satellite. There are no grays bars on it so WCBS is adding the gray bars.

Originally posted by John Tuohy
Anyone getting gray bars on CBS. I thought it might be my STB but I tried another and still get gray bars. Argggg!


Yeah, I'm getting them too, I had hoped tonights game was in HD.

Boy I sure wish GT would give us an update, I can't believe everything's pushed to the end of the year...

MC

How recent is this?


About HDTV on WABC & ABC45

WABC-TV has been working to restore full-power DTV service to the tri-state area to replace those facilities lost at the World Trade Center.
Presently, the only location suitable for broadcasting this service is the Empire State Building. Preparations at this location include the installation of new electrical and antenna systems and the relocation of existing tenants to make space for new broadcast equipment.

We expect this work to be completed and to resume operations on WABC-DT before the end of this summer.



Here (http://www.abc45online.com)

Blue

Originally posted by Bogney Baux
Yes, I am also getting the gray bars. I am also getting the football game from the CBS Seattle station by way of Canadian satellite. There are no grays bars on it so WCBS is adding the gray bars.

Me too...

Although, I thought gray bars were better as the reduced the chance for burn in on RP and Plasma sets?

I thought maybe they had complaints (or an attempted law suit) from someone who watched a lot of CBS and got burn-in. Since you cannot stop the bars from appearing, they could be considered responsible.

Blue Rain / others

I have posted this once or twice before on other threads and I think at least once on this thread and I will say it again due to negotiations with the lease holder of the Empire State Building, power upgrades and other issues with the combiner next year most probably in the 1st quarter is when the other broadcasters will be up digitally. And not before that.

There may be limited testing before that but full time broadcasting will not happen this year.

Thanks WWard...while that news is annoying and frustrating, it has to be expected. The people who hold the space needed at the ESB have the broadcasters by the short hairs and once the 'lease' aspects of it are resolved there are the technical issues.

Perhaps things will be up in time for MNF 2004 kickoff or at least the Summer Olympics next year. It won't surprise me when that first quarter projection turns into Summer 2004....it just follows the pattern.

Doug

No matter where the blame appropriately belongs, it still is unacceptable that 2 years later they are still "negotiating."

The Gray bars on CBS are present on some commercials but not all very odd

Mr Thompson

Your input is appreciated. Is there any hope of getting it in 2003 ?

Originally posted by John Tuohy
The Gray bars on CBS are present on some commercials but not all very odd

The commercials with the black bars are CBS Network commercials. The commercials with the gray bars are WCBS local New York City only commercials.

Ok maybe not so odd

Thanks (again)

OK, OK, OK.....
I'm on vacation. I'll ask when I get back after Labor Day. The last I heard was that the agreement was signed and approved for the guys in Maine to finish up the combiner. WNBC chief was expecting November to be on-air time. Nothing new to report.
Wait till I get back.....
George

oh no........ titan tv has just changed the dates of ABC and NBC DT....

ABC 45 WABC-DT Dec 31 2003
NBC 28 WNBC-DT Dec 31 2003

Oh well, nothing to look forward to this weekend.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
oh no........ titan tv has just changed the dates of ABC and NBC DT....

ABC 45 WABC-DT Dec 31 2003
NBC 28 WNBC-DT Dec 31 2003

Oh well, nothing to look forward to this weekend.

I believe these are just the filing dates. The permits are good for six months at a time. Titan or AntennaWeb don't actually know what the networks are up to.

boy this stinks.......

Raven56706

By George there is still hope....

The following is from the CBS website.....

Note To Viewers About Overnight Reception: The Empire State Building has recently undertaken a massive project to upgrade and strengthen the broadcast tower that sits on top of the building. This project is a direct result of the 9-11 incident where all broadcasters lost their main broadcast tower on top of the world Trade Center and were forced to relocate to the Empire State Building.

In order to accommodate the antennas for every station as well as adding antennas & facilities for HDTV broadcasting, it is necessary for the tower to be reconfigured and strengthened. Safety concerns mandate that all broadcasters cease broadcasting from the tower, while workers are present, and switch to alternate lower power facilities. In an effort to minimize the disruption to the viewing public, all work is scheduled during the overnight period from approx. 12:30 AM to 4:45 AM Monday through Saturday. The projected completion date is mid September.

During these overnight periods WCBS operates from a lower power back-up transmitter. Some off-air viewers may not be able to receive the signal from this back-up site. Cable & Satellite reception is not affected.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may case


Perhaps a mid Sept date means that its possible to get the other aspects completed before the end of the year...Time will tell....I certainly don't want to get ahead of things though....

Doug

... but it's nice to see that something is happening! :D

Anyone watching the US Open in HD???? It looks great!!!!!!

ya mon, damn the chicks look good in hd ;>

enjoy, john

Originally posted by samoth
Anyone watching the US Open in HD???? It looks great!!!!!!

Originally posted by George Thompson
OK, OK, OK.....
I'm on vacation. I'll ask when I get back after Labor Day. The last I heard was that the agreement was signed and approved for the guys in Maine to finish up the combiner. WNBC chief was expecting November to be on-air time. Nothing new to report.
Wait till I get back.....
George

Any luck George?

Thanks!
MC

I can't understand why WABC-DT is not on the air when the Spanish station 40-1 is on. Don't they use the same antenna?

Originally posted by JohnnyI1222
I can't understand why WABC-DT is not on the air when the Spanish station 40-1 is on. Don't they use the same antenna? They will not use the same antenna.

www.abc45online.com has been updated. It now says they expect to be broadcasting by early November.

That's great news, and I would hope that they wouldn't put that there unless early November really means late October. Everyone is so used to these dates being pushed back, one would hope that they would start to be conservative instead of aggressive by now.

Doug

Well, I haven't seen the CE yet this week but the local maintenance guys tell me that demolition started a few weeks ago on 77? for new transmitter room for WNBC. They can retune the already installed Telemondo transmitter if need be to get on the air when the combiner in installed. The microwave room where the combiner will be installed is untouched as of now.
Interesting that a bar buddy of mine is a property manager for the same group that owns/manages ESB. He mentioned that RF issues were voiced by several tenants and may have held up some of the progress. The guys at WNBC said that there was a sperm bank next door to the new transmitter room........ Which was a doctors office that was still occupied by staff and patients when the CE went to visit the space after signing the lease.
Anyway, that is all that I know for now.
GT

geez.... all that stands between me and nbchd is sperm...... Never thought i would say that ever in my lifetime.

I am very disappointed that it looks like between OTA and Cablevision, I am not going to get to see Brittany Spears or the Jets in HD tonight.

MC

i 2nd that, but think positivly, we always have analog (blah im gonna vomit)

john

Originally posted by MicroChip
I am very disappointed that it looks like between OTA and Cablevision, I am not going to get to see Brittany Spears or the Jets in HD tonight.

MC

Originally posted by George Thompson
Interesting that a bar buddy of mine is a property manager for the same group that owns/manages ESB.
GT

Hey george,

where do drink? I'll stop by and buy you cold one! :D

We certainly owe you at least that for all of your insight and information.

Thanks for everything,

John

Thanks John,
I may be adding a little bit too much insight...lol. I really do have to watch what I say since EVERYONE reads this forum..ROTFLMAO. (Two calls today).
Those on air dates are towards the end of the year and not cast in stone. Don't read more into that than just an estimate of when everything will be ready. Some more bits of trivia when the xmitters are fired up.
Anyway, if anyone hangs around midtown after work they are more than welcome to down a few with me. My regular hangouts are in White Plains pubs on Old Post Road and Mammarinak (sp) ave. (Yahoo Westchester Nightlife Group)
GT

I sometimes find myself at the Great American Pub (GAP) on the Post Rd. or that big one (forgot the name) on Mamaroneck Ave. off Post Rd. with the pool table off in a tight corner and all the rare beers. Ever hang at one of those? If so, what's your usual day(s) and time(s)?

There seems to be somthing wrong with the PSIP on WCBS-DT. My Dish 6000 stopped receiving them. I had to do a rescan but it does not remap to channel 2. It stays at 56. I then did a rescan on my Hipix computer and it also stays at 56 instead of remapping to channel 2.1.

Ha ah,
We generally hang at either Kelly's or The Thursty Turtle on Thursdays at about 8pm and leave when the college kids show up. As regulars we have a free happy hour then..... Black Bear? is the other on Mamaroneck ave. (All the same owner).
GT

Bogney Baux

Yep I noticed the same thing on my F38310

My samsung sir-t151 does the same. USOpen still looks great!!!

George - I recall reading that the ESB transmitters for ABC and NBC are temporary until a new tower can be erected (Yeah! Sure! When?) :)

But I'm wondering what the transmission power will be. Will ABC and NBC be using reduced power at this "temporary" location? Also wondering what power UPN and WB will be. Hope they will reach 22 miles into NJ.

Thanks.

Rick

www.abc45online.com

will the game on cbs be hd today?

john

Looks like its not on WCBS-DT

afraid so, giants ota fox edtv distance shots look awful, close-ups better, but this edtv stuff is crap.

john

omg, game just went hd on cbs, did they fall asleep again or is this a mistake??

john

Originally posted by cpto
George - I recall reading that the ESB transmitters for ABC and NBC are temporary until a new tower can be erected (Yeah! Sure! When?) :)

But I'm wondering what the transmission power will be. Will ABC and NBC be using reduced power at this "temporary" location? Also wondering what power UPN and WB will be. Hope they will reach 22 miles into NJ.

Thanks.

Rick

Well, you spoiled one of my bits of trivia. The stations on ESB will not be on full power. First, they would melt the antenna. Second they would be stuck with that power (full) and not on the World Trade center replacement. I think I heard 180KW. Something about STA authorization. I didnt catch it all.
Yes, ESB is temporary and probably a standby until WTC is rebuilt.
GT

Originally posted by George Thompson
Ha ah,
We generally hang at either Kelly's or The Thursty Turtle on Thursdays at about 8pm and leave when the college kids show up. As regulars we have a free happy hour then..... Black Bear? is the other on Mamaroneck ave. (All the same owner).
GT

Black Bear, yes, I think that's it. Thursdays are kinda tough, but I'll keep it in mind. Meanwhile, what do you think the chances are that I'll be able to pull in the WABC-DT45 signal in Port Chester with an RCA UHF-VHF indoor amplified antenna considering that I usually have no problem getting WCBS-DT56 and WNYW-DT44?

Thanks, George.

Thanks George. I hope they do have enough power to reach out here in the Morristown area, otherwise I'll be stuck in the position of being just a little too far from Philadelphia (except for CBS) and too far from NYC (except for CBS and FOX)! :rolleyes:

Rick

CPTO, I'm in Randolph and now you've got me curious....you can pull CBS from Philly?! What type of antenna do you have and do you amplify it? Also what channel is Philly CBS?

Thanks Rick,

Doug

I would think 180kW would be no problem for Morristown. CBS is at 394, and Fox is much less (I wish 100000watts.com wasn't a pay site now), but not too far from 180 as well, and I have no problem with that in the same area either. The whole point, as it says on abc45online.com, is to restore reliable service to the entire area, otherwise they'd be on a pole somewhere with a 10 mile broadcasting radius. :)

in hanover, can pick up abc 64 and cbs 26 from philly and pbs 43 from trenton using CM 4221 in attic and CM 7775 preamp.

I was thinking of getting the cm7777 preamp for my outdoor Terk antenna. Think that would do the trick? Also, for that assortment I assume you have a rotor?

thanks!

Doug

Doug,
it's worth a try with the preamp. also, no rotor in my case. it's in the attic so i just go up there and repoint it towards philly. it's normally pointed towards ny. btw, terks get a bad rap here. good luck.

OK....this is a little wacky but please tell me if this will work. I currently have a terk on my roof. What if I were to get a cm indoor model and hook that up as well. Put both lines from the antennae into an a/b switch and then add a preamp after the a/b into my hd200. I could point one towards NYC and the other (higher gain model) towards philly or somewhere else. Would this work??? Am I brilliant or just overly ambitious and unaware of what the technology will do?!

Any help would be great....thanks!

Doug

FYI, I live in Colts Neck, NJ which is central Monmouth County. I've recently installed a CM4228, w/ a CM7775 pre-amp, CM7720 Broadband Amp, and a 9521A Rotor. I'm able to pull in NY CBS (56) and Fox (44) consistently. It's disappointing that NY ABC and NBC are down. I'm also able to consistently pull in Philly CBS (26) and ABC(64).

George, when the combiner is completed, do you know if it's just for ABC/NBC? Will WB11 go back to high(er) power on ch 33? I'm on the fringe and would be hopeful of pulling in WPIX also. Cablevision has done a nice job of giving me HD channels that are already broadcasting that I've been getting OTA for months, and I'm not hopeful of getting ABC NBC or WB via them. Thanks for the info.

The combiner/antenna is for all the stations in the consortium. I don't think that any station will be at full legal power since as I mentioned before the combiner/antenna will not be able to handle it. But they should be able to cover 80/90 percent of their coverage area. Full power will be achieved with the WTC replacement.
ESB stations should be up and running before the end of the year.
GT

Thanks George. I'm not sure that bodes well for my area though, since CBS already disappears in light rain and Philadelphia stations are really marginal.

In a way I'm missing the showy fuzzy pictures of NTSC - even if the picture wasn't great at least you could often watch it in marginal conditions without getting pixelization, freeze, or "no signal." :D

Rick

I'm almost 10 miles west of you and have no trouble with CBS. What type of antenna do you use? If it's really bad weather, I have problems, but so does everyone. Repositioning my antenna and connecting a pre-amp helps. You're well within the radius to be able to receive CBS and the other stations when they come online. I'm using a radio shack indoor antenna, btw.

Trekkerj - I have the same setup as rross111, but my antenna is on the roof and has a rotor. I think part of the problem is that I am being blocked by the house next door and across the street. Perhaps raising the antenna 5 or 10 feet would help.

Still, CBS always breaks up before FOX. I don't know if that has to do more with the antenna broadcast pattern or with the fact that WCBS is at a higher frequency, which - I think - is more susceptible to interference by moisture in the air.

Rick

Anyone else have trouble with WPIX on Thursday evening? Usually comes in clear as a bell, but it was either "no signal" or very broken up all evening. All other NYC signals were fine.

Also, does anyone know if any of the OTA stations broadcast test signals at any time?

I think George said that they're not to that point yet. (George - please correct me if I'm wrong.)

I think we'll read it here first when the local NYC DT stations start testing. If we're lucky, they'll monitor us to get feedback on how well it's working.

Rick

Was WCBS-DT (Channel 56) not transmitting on Thursday? I just repositioned my Winegard GS200A and suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56). I live in northern Westchester, about 42 miles from Empire State Building transmitter. This is strange because WNYW-DT (44) and its linked UPN counterpart are coming in fairly strong. Is the WCBS transmitter down, or something? When I lived about 10 miles south of here, I always got WCBS strongest.:confused:

suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56)

I'm about 38 miles east of ESB and have no picture even though it hits 90 on my meter. I've switched over to CBS-HD off Dish 61.5.

Originally posted by MLM

Also, does anyone know if any of the OTA stations broadcast test signals at any time? [/B]

Perhaps I wasn't sufficiently clear. I was asking if any of the current OTA stations transmit a test pattern that we can use for adjusting our TVs

Originally posted by s2silber
Was WCBS-DT (Channel 56) not transmitting on Thursday? I just repositioned my Winegard GS200A and suddenly I'm getting no signal on WCBS-DT (56). I live in northern Westchester, about 42 miles from Empire State Building transmitter. This is strange because WNYW-DT (44) and its linked UPN counterpart are coming in fairly strong. Is the WCBS transmitter down, or something? When I lived about 10 miles south of here, I always got WCBS strongest.:confused:
On Thursday I got WCBS very clearly as usual and, for the first time, WPIX was broken up. Signal strength was down on both though. The other stations came in as usual, but I didn't look at the meter. I'm in Bayside.

WCBS came in fine for me Thursday night. I wonder if they're having PSIP problems again... Did you re-scan for Channel 56?

Originally posted by cpto
WCBS came in fine for me Thursday night. I wonder if they're having PSIP problems again... Did you re-scan for Channel 56?
Yes, but I'm getting too weak of a signal to lock. Again, it's strange because I'm getting the Fox and UPN stations with adequate signal strength to lock. Before, WCBS was significantly stronger than both.

I was getting WCBS-DT56 perfectly until about 9pm when it started breaking up and dropping out pretty frequently for no apparent reason.

My problem started as soon as I finished setting up the antenna, which was about 7:00 p.m.

I live in Weschester too, Ossining to be exact which puts me aprox 55miles from the ESB. (as the crow flies) My signal strength on CBS has dropped dramatically from 75 to 35. Still getting decent signal strength on FOX and UPN (aprox 60). Is CBS doing any maintenance to their transmitter, have they reduced their kwatts for some reason?

Anyone in the know on this subject?

Guys, please keep in mind that there is some maintainence going on at the Empire State Building, I think until November-December of this year. They are in the process of getting ABC hd and NBC hd ready to broadcast later this year from the Empire State Building. So they will be daily interruptions on a nightly basis until that work is complete. I think the work was suppose to begin around midnight on a daily basis.

I'm experiencing this during prime time.

Originally posted by cgardias
I live in Weschester too, Ossining to be exact which puts me aprox 55miles from the ESB. (as the crow flies) My signal strength on CBS has dropped dramatically from 75 to 35. Still getting decent signal strength on FOX and UPN (aprox 60). Is CBS doing any maintenance to their transmitter, have they reduced their kwatts for some reason?

Anyone in the know on this subject?
I just moved from Ossining, which is really only about 32 miles from the ESB as the crow flies, and where I always got over 90 signal strength on WCBS-DT Ch. 56. Now, about 10 miles further north using the same antenna, the FOX and UPN stations are at around 60 (sufficient to lock), but no more than a blip of yellow on WCBS.

I spoke to someone in Master Control at WCBS and he told me that they're at full strength and only go down between 12:38 a.m. and 4:30 a.m. every night.

Something strange is happening here.

Bummer, what could be happening?
Isn't fox and upn transmitting from the ESB too? They don't seem to be experiencing any problems.

I wonder what other factors could be contributing to this reduction in CBS' signal strength? It certainly can't be the weather since that would effect all 3 channels.

what time?

I only really check during Prime time, since thats really the only time any HD programming is on.

Originally posted by cgardias
I only really check during Prime time, since thats really the only time any HD programming is on.
It's not just HDTV programming that can't be received. It's anything coming off Channel 56 any time of day.

Absolutely!
I was just trying to explain when I check signal strengths.

I blame it all on the Aliens

jk

Well that explains it.

Well, I can verify that some extensive work on the ESB's tower is has been underway for at least the past month or so - when the weather is good I can see welding going on up there! I'd been wondering why they had been leaving their lights on past midnight until I saw the flashes up the mast.

Thanks for the info.

I'm having the same problem. I've always had a strong signal for CBS until friday night. At least now i know the problem is not on my end.

John

Can anyone confirm that the new Freedom Tower will be used to transmit digital TV? At the very beginning, when the design was quite different, I read that one of the proposed towers would have state of the art transmission capability. But I haven't read anything about OTA transmission from the Freedom Tower. I'm pretty sure that the New Jersey tower that was talked about for awhile is not going forward. And apparently we're only going to get low power transmission from the ESB when that work is done, which suggests that it's only a temporary solution until something else, maybe the Freedom Tower, gets built. Anyone have any hard, detailed information?

FYI, if you've never viewed it: There's one source of OTA 1080i HDTV during the day, the soap "The Young and the Restless" (12:30-1:30 pm).

Not a regular, but I sometime use it to A-B compare with WCBS-DT delivered via cable. CBS's HD Y&R is unusual because it appears to be the only episodic drama taped in 1080/60i, the same recording used for NBC's Leno, much of PBS's HD, HDNet, etc. Other taped shows use 1080/24p with 2:3 pulldown to create broadcast HD's 1080/60i requirement (or 720/60p with a different pulldown).

While Y&R appears to be moderately filtered, compared to those other 1080/60i sources, I've found A-Bing the fine tweed or similar patterns in actor's clothes is useful. (Two of my cable converters, the SA2000HD and SA3100HD, had/have a faint fog over images that spoils faint low-contrast details such as narrow colored pinstripes in a white shirt. Hopefully, TWC's supposed introduction of the new 8000HD HDTV recorder/converter before 2004 will finally cure the 'fog' problem. -- John

In the last couple of days I noticed that CBS' signal has increased slightly but still not as strong as it used to be.
Anyone else notice this?

I'm still getting nothing. I did confirm with someone in WCBS Master Control that there have been some power reductions during the day this week, but that still doesn't explain why I haven't gotten a strong enough signal for reception since last week. Unless, of course, my antenna at the new house was put in a "cold zone" for that station.

I am watching the mets on msg hd, can you tell me if this is 1080/60i or 24p. to my eye it looks 60i. thanks

john

Originally posted by John Mason
FYI, if you've never viewed it: There's one source of OTA 1080i HDTV during the day, the soap "The Young and the Restless" (12:30-1:30 pm).

Not a regular, but I sometime use it to A-B compare with WCBS-DT delivered via cable. CBS's HD Y&R is unusual because it appears to be the only episodic drama taped in 1080/60i, the same recording used for NBC's Leno, much of PBS's HD, HDNet, etc. Other taped shows use 1080/24p with 2:3 pulldown to create broadcast HD's 1080/60i requirement (or 720/60p with a different pulldown).

While Y&R appears to be moderately filtered, compared to those other 1080/60i sources, I've found A-Bing the fine tweed or similar patterns in actor's clothes is useful. (Two of my cable converters, the SA2000HD and SA3100HD, had/have a faint fog over images that spoils faint low-contrast details such as narrow colored pinstripes in a white shirt. Hopefully, TWC's supposed introduction of the new 8000HD HDTV recorder/converter before 2004 will finally cure the 'fog' problem. -- John

Originally posted by jscnyc
I am watching the mets on msg hd, can you tell me if this is 1080/60i or 24p. to my eye it looks 60i. thanks

john 1080/60i

Yes, jscnyc, I was responding mainly to this earlier comment (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2664632#post2664632) about the lack of OTA HD in the area during daytime. Probably should have quoted that post for clarity. As I mentioned, CBS's weekday Y&R can be a sort of 1080/60i prerecorded 'HD test' during non-primetime weekdays.

Any live 1080 HD would be 1080/60i. The msg HD, which I don't get on TWC, would be 1080/60i from start to finish, probably even if it was a taped show (just like taped sports on HDNet). -- John

Hi all - I am moving to Manhattan soon and I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions on the best indoor antenna to pick up the digital stations in the area (don't care about analog). I will be living on the UES.

Thanks in advance!!

Oh yeah, any suggestions on where to get a good deal on a plasma in the area would also be greatly appreciated.

Zeniths silver sensor or Radio shacks bowtie are both recommended

Originally posted by Lord British
Hi all - I am moving to Manhattan soon and I was wondering if anyone has some suggestions on the best indoor antenna to pick up the digital stations in the area (don't care about analog). I will be living on the UES.
Obviously with a view of the Empire State Building, pickup of CBS (HD) and Fox/UPN (non-HD) will be easy. Other ESB HDTV stations are slated later this year. If facing North (etc.) only, you may be able to tune in reflected, but more multipath-erratic signals, by pointing your antenna elsewhere. If you're on a high floor, other regional stations are possible. (Enter your location at antennaweb.org to check the options). If possible, an antenna test inside versus outside might reveal your windows have a metallic content that diminishes UHF frequencies. If the building has Time Warner Cable, among the best local HD sources (RCN serves some Manhattan buildings), just call 718 670 0265 for a converter and visit http://www.twcnyc.com/ for pricing and channel options. -- John

Thanks for the replies everyone -

The Silver Sensor sounds like a great choice (btw, I checked froogle.com and it can be found for as low as 21.26).

So I assume that there is no need to pick up the VHF band in NYC? No digital channels being transmitted on VHF?

Also, is a preamp beneficial at all? My apt does have a window facing south (where the majority of the transmitters seem to be in relation to the Upper East Side) but naturally I am surrounded by other buildings.

LB

WPIX broadcasts in the VHF band but that should be changed in a few months. I am still able to pick up WPIX w/ the silver sensor albeit at a weaker reading but I have Line of sight to the ESB.

ESB DTV Antenna/Combiner put on hold again.....

Excuse my ignorance but what does that mean to us?

It means none of the other locals can broadcast until then. No ABC and No NBC. Bummer.

For crying out loud!!!!!!!:(
Damn them!!!!:mad:

Originally posted by Lord British
Also, is a preamp beneficial at all? My apt does have a window facing south (where the majority of the transmitters seem to be in relation to the Upper East Side) but naturally I am surrounded by other buildings.
LB
One's experience doesn't necessarily work for another, but I couldn't receive WCBS from my one story house in Bayside with an old beaten up outside antenna. I put a RS 15-1170 on it and it's been coming in strong.

My RS offered to take it back if it didn't work. Suggest you ask yours.

Mel

George when you say 'one of the members' I assume you're speaking of one of the networks. Please let us know which one so we can call and ream them royally. They can't take the time to put in a requisition for the funds on time...they should be skinned alive!

That's pathetic, but it follows the pattern of delay after delay. As you said, all of this in the #1 market in the country!

Doug

Originally posted by MLM
My RS offered to take it back if it didn't work. Suggest you ask yours.

Seems like that's standard policy for most anything at RatShack.

_Man_

Unbelievable. I was beginning to think that Cablevision would add ABC and NBC-DT, maybe even WPIX, but I've given up hope and figured I could wait a couple of more months and get it OTA. Now that this seems to be not happening, I'll never get to see these other stations in HD.

George, I noticed you edited your message, but do you have any other details? Does this look like it will hold it up for a long time, or just a little whlie? I mean, they've been working on the thing up there for a little while now, no?

I wish Cablevision would get it's act together, then I wouldn't have to even worry about this. Are you listening Mr. Dolan??????

I would almost think, although this might not make sense in the grand scheme, that Dolan might not plan to add any more HD to cablevision because he has Xoom coming out in October and that, they say, will be 30+ channels of HD. He might be holding back on Cablevision to try to get people to subscribe and boost the Xoom numbers as best as possible before an IPO. Just a thought....but to recap, we're all screwed with no ABC and NBC!

Doug

That doesn't make sense. Voom won't have HD locals anyway -- besides, why bother with PBS-HD and CBS-HD, if you planned to stop there. Doesn't make sense. And why did negotiations with locals that are already broadcasting take longer than the one's that aren't?

I never claimed to be lucid....it was just my own personal conspiracy theory (that obviously has many holes in it)

Doug

Wouldn't there be some kind of news item about this situation? I've been searching through local papers and can't find anything. This whole situation is so frustrating.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't there be some kind of news item about this situation? I've been searching through
local papers and can't find anything. This whole situation is so frustrating.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As frustrating as this may be this is not a news worthy article for the local papers lets keep this in perspective there was never a chance (as I stated much early on in this thread, with info from creditable sources) that beyond the stations broadcasting digitally now that the other local stations would not be back on the air this year.

The real news would be if all the networks made it back on the air before years end that would definitely be in a few newspapers to say the least.

Digital transmissions as it stands for those stations that are not broadcasting digitally is a costly and logistically enormous task and considering the state of affairs with the combiner project will delay things from moving forward for quite a while.

I'm not trying to be the voice of doom just trying to add a little calm and perspective to the situation.

Originally posted by George Thompson
ESB DTV Antenna/Combiner put on hold again.....

George,

You're a little vague on the details. Any more you could tell us? We would never shoot the messenger...

MC

i'm so sick of these delays? what is keeping them from broadcasting a low-power signal temporarily until a good solution can be found?

I hate to say it, but it's really beginning to look like the broadcasters are using 9/11 for an excuse to totally avoid their responsibility. After over 2 years and the gracious offers of CBS, there is simply no good excuse for this to go on.

I recently discovered a web-reprint of an article dating from 1967 (just after the plans for the WTC were made public) on the history of the ESB's broadcasting antennas that some frequenters of this thread may find interesting or ironic (BROADCAST ANTENNAS ON THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING (http://www.lnl.com/esbantennas.htm)). The article concludes with these two paragraphs:

The world's most unusual antenna site may not exist much longer. Recently, the Port of New York Authority has been planning the construction of twin 110-story skyscrapers in Lower Manhattan. Independent studies by Alford Manufacturing Co, and Jansky and Bailey have shown that the proposed towers would cause ghosting to some viewers watching some of the TV stations presently on the Empire State Building. Several solutions to the program have been advanced, one being to relocate antennas from Empire State to the new. taller structures (to be known as the World Trade Center).

Whatever the future of the Empire State Building antenna site. it remains a monument to the ability of broadcast engineers and stations to cooperate for their mutual welfare and for the public benefit.

(Emphasis added)

Technical reasons up to a year after 9/11 were plausible. Two years smells like a rotten apple. Wish I could get em all off DISH.

George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??

Doug

Originally posted by Paperboy2003
George has been extremely quiet since he edited his intial post....anything going on George.....Can you tell us who didn't get their combiner payment in on time?? Who's to blame now??

Doug

Or did anybody see what he posted before he edited it?

Here's what he said in the HDTV-in-NYC Yahoo group:

From: "George Thompson" <george.thompson@n...>
Date: Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:23 pm
Subject: EBS combiner on hold till March '04


One of the signers of the grand alliance of stations to use the DTV
broadband antenna on ESB failed to come up with the money. The next
available time for Dielectric to work on the combiner is March '04.
GT


That's a little more clear, and depressing. Next time they can work on it is March, that means it won't be done until...

MC

This is pathetic. How much money are we talking here? Even in the millions it's probably a drop in the bucket for some of the major networks considering the market. But what do I know...all I know is that I have never watched so much network TV since I got HDTV. I even watch PBS! I haven't don't that since Sesame Street was on when I was a toddler.

Why don't the other stations pony up the money and double-charge the loser when nobody watches their crappy SD signal, and they finally decide it was worth it?

What you wrote MicroChip is essentially what George wrote here before he edited it. I just am curious (even though it doesn't matter) who the deadbeat is. Also why would they have to wait until March now....that strikes me as odd....does it have to do with the impending winter or are these 'combiners' only made at a certain time. It would seem odd that they could pay for it September and have it installed and running in November, but that they can't now do anything before March. Perhaps someone who understands that industry can shed some light on that.

Thanks

Doug

What that might mean is that Dielectric is a major suppler of antennas and transmission equipment to the industry. They may be backed up in orders to fill and cannot put the EBS combiner in queue until March. That is probably a very good guess.
I do not think anyone outside of the inner circle of the alliance knows who the guilty party is and what the reason for not providing funds. I believe that they tend to shun publicity.

I've pretty much given up on HD from NBC, ABC, and WB in the near future.

So the new antenna complex is delayed again. After all this time it really doesn't bother me all that much--after all, it's just TV (and the ads take up 25% of the total programming time).

But after getting used to the CBS HD programming I find that's more than enough for my busy schedule. After getting my set three years ago I was really disgusted with the lousy NTSC signal that my local Cablevision service provided, and started watching only HD except for news.

That's how I found CSI and other CBS programs I came to enjoy.

For me, at least, that means that whatever audience ABC and NBC are trying to reach, I'm not part of it. Norw will I be until, apparently, March of next year--if then.

Regardless of what they say, we all know the networks are businesses and their main goal is to maximize net profit. If advertisers on those networks don't care that they're not reaching me: fine! Then I don't care about not learning of their products or watching the shows they're sponsoring.

R

I agree with most of what you are saying, but I would really like to watch West Wing in HD tonight, and can't. Also, if Angel is in HD this year and I can't see it, that would really annoy me. It also stinks for us MNF viewers. At least November would mean that we wouldn't miss the whole season.

However, I wouldn't have come to love CSI and CSI Miami if not for CBS-HD. I might get into other shows on other networks that I wouldn't otherwise, If they'd start broadcasting or come to an agreement with Cablevision.

Now for something completely different...

Does anyone know when CBS will begin broadcasting Late Night with David Letterman in HD? Letterman was joking about the new HD cameras months ago (and even dented one with his microphone), but still no HD broadcasts.

- Bryan

From what I've read in different threads over in the HDTV Programming forum, not for a while. Something to do with switching their control room over to handle HD. Not before the end of the year, anyway.

I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.

If the hdtv signals were live today, they'd have quite a bit of my attention, as CBS does. By the time they get their signals on the air, we'll all be addicted to CBS programing and there will be a lot more HD content on the traditional cable stations to compete with.

It will be interesting to see the population numbers on the HD demographic after the holiday season with all that new digital equipment in consumers hands. Wonder if this could be big enough to allow CBS to sneak in the back door and catch NBC and ABC.

CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.

Enjoy CSI tonight!

Oh well...


Doug

Meandering on a bit on this thread within a thread, I find it curious that there aren't really an ads in HD on CBS HD. Maybe it's just too complex to insert an HD ad instead of switching to the NTSC upconverted feed.

However, given the high cost of producing most commercials, having an HD version run off would seem to be a minimal additional expense. And I've noticed how people have commented on HD ads on HDNet and (I think) during the occasional sports event.

Perhaps someone more familiar with the operations side can let us know why HD commercials aren't being broadcast. I suspect I'd pay more attention to them--especially if they also used 5.1 Dolby creatively.

Any thoughts?

Rick

This may be more of a network HD programming issue than a local thing but, the HD automation systems and resources may be still in development with standards and protocols changing so swiftly. Like getting the mass storage systems to talk to the production edit facilities to talk to news edit facilities (different protocols or operating systems). As more of the trend toward tapeless facilities goes on, HD commercials will be integrated into the inventory of available source material. This is a pricey investment that will take time to accumulate.
You're right, HD versions of commercials are easy enough to come by. But getting them into the schedule is a bit tougher.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paperboy2003
[B]CBS if I recall, and this has nothing to do with HD, is the number one networkd now anyway. I thought I remember the order being CBS, NBC, ABC. Sure would be great if we could pin that on the lack of hd.

Lets see if I got this right:

Share CBS 13, NBC 13, ABC 10, Fox 10

Ratings
18-49 CBS 3.8, NBC 4.5, ABC 3.8, Fox 4.3


HD ratings due to go live in late in '04.

Hi,
I finally got jacked into the world of HDTV this week, and I was hoping someone help me with my somewhat lackluster reception. I live on the Upper West Side in Manhattan, approximately 4 miles from the Empire State Building.

I live on the top floor of a six story building, but I do NOT have a clear sight line to the ESB, as all my windows face west. I'm using a Samsung SIR-T151 Tuner and a Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. I have been able to receive CBS and FOX, but it has been spotty. The antenna is extremely picky. Even though Fox and CBS are both being broadcast from the ESB, I still need to adjust the position of the antenna when I switch between the two channels. If the antenna is moved even an inch in any direction, I lose the signal. The tuner says I'm only getting 50% signal, and there is no fluctuation. It's only 50% or 0%. I know that my reception is hurt by being in a somewhat low-rise, brick building, but I figured that my very-close proximity to the ESB would counterbalance that problem. I'm not able to pull in any other channels like PBS in New Jersey.

What would you all recommend? I would like to be able to get both CBS and FOX without fiddling every time. Does anyone recommend a different antenna? Rooftop isn't really an option for me unfortunately. And what about these firmware upgrades I've been hearing about, could that help anything?
Thanks so much,
Ben

Having to adjust between CBS and FOX is normal, not sure of the explanation, but that's the way it is, especially if the reception is spotty to begin with. I'd make sure to get the antenna as close to a window as possible (even if it's not facing in the perfect direction). If a window is too far, get a decent pre-amp and run a longer cable. This has greatly helped me in the past. Pain to run a long coax across the room to the window, but it worked.

That sounds very similar to what I have to do, north-facing, only 9 blocks from the ESB, Ben. Also use a SS into my set's built-in tuner. But I can rarely tune in Fox; CBS is erratic. It's all due to NYC's horrendus multipath, although antennas obviously should be pointed at transmitters. Getting TW or RCN cable is the best fix, assuming you can't put up DBS dishes. Another alternative might be using a building's master antenna system, assuming it delivers UHF and VHF (believe WPIX-DT is still on VHF, but I can't pick it up either.) WNET-DT broadcasts a weak signal toward Newark from a site west of the ESB. Enter your location at antennaweb.org for nearby station frequencies; you might pick up regional stations from N.J. -- John

If you want a PBS station, try WLIW-DT on 22 from LI. I can pick it up from 30 miles west of the city, you might have some luck with that. Just aim your multidirectional antenna east. They have two subchannels, 21-1 is HD.

You guys should probably try a decent omnidirectional antenna due to all the multipath problems, instead of the Silver Sensor, which is directional, IIRC. I'd try the RatShack double-bowtie w/ a preamp for the UHF signals. If it doesn't work, you can always return it.

_Man_

That's exactly what I use, a good recommendation.

Originally posted by MVideo
I have to agree with you, cpto. HD viewers, one would think, is a pretty interesting demographic. The networks havn't had the opportunity to have such a captive audience in decades, and they're blowing it.

I agree 100%. It's hard to believe some of the stuff I'm watching now. Maybe it's good we don't have NBC because I might even tune in to "Whoopi". Without HD I would rather stick needles in my eyes than watch that.

*********************Pure Speculation and Fantasy***************
Would anyone with really good contacts at WABC care to confirm or deny a rumor as to WABC-DT heading over to Conte Nast in the next few months?

It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.

George...any input? Is it simple enough as signing a lease and building an antenna?

Doug

Originally posted by Paperboy2003
It wouldn't be a bad idea since the new Conde Nast Bldg is quite tall. I don't know if they have an antennae on their roof or if it's built for antennae, but I don't think it's just simple enough to sign a lease and build an antenna; but I sure wish it were true and possible to do quickly.

Doug
The Conde-Nast building has always had a broadcast antenna. The original antenna served primarily as a backup facility for radio stations. A new 358-tall antenna is now under construction, with completion due later this month. Its top will be at about the same elevation as the bottom of the ESB antenna mast.

Of course it is possible. With all that is happening at EBS I'm not surprised.
Dielectric is providing the antennas for the Durst Organization at 4 Times Square. The contract provides for up to 5 master antenna systems over the life of the agreement. The agreement also extends to Dielectric's patented EHTline and digiTLine transmission lines. The first deliveries, scheduled for completion this month will be comprised of three master panel antennas capable of accommodating NTSC and DTV broadcasts from channels 7 through 61.
Another Maine antenna maker, Shively Labs, made the FM antenna and combiner for 9 FM stations that already call it home. (If you catch me for drinks one night I'll tell you stories of Shively's 21 element slant bay linear dipole antenna with three feet of black ice on Sugarloaf Mountain in Maine when I was CE for WTOS up there).
Durst is waiting with open arms for stations to stop by.
Let the EBS group eat that combiner......
GT

What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.

Originally posted by trekkerj
What kind of range would a DTV station have from that building given the height? Let us know if you hear any rumors. To get ABC or NBC back within the next month or so would be really nice.

or a dream.

I would bet that it is WNBC who didn't come up with the money for the combiner. Don't expect to seem them back on the air for quite a bit.

At least for now, http://www.abc45online.com/ still maintains that ABC-DT expects to begin digital transmission in early November (a month away).

Isn't there somebody we can contact at WABC to ask them? Clearly if the Empire combiner deal is dead until at least March, that WABC either has a backup plan to get on the air next month, or does not update a site that we monitor with great regularity.

Thoughts?

MC

The thought is that they don't update their site regularly. If there was a back up plan one would think we would have heard about it by now. I won't hold my breath until we get definitive word, which I don't expect until March or April.

Doug

Originally posted by Paperboy2003
The thought is that they don't update their site regularly. If there was a back up plan one would think we would have heard about it by now. I won't hold my breath until we get definitive word, which I don't expect until March or April.

Doug
Oh, ye of little faith...Take heart. I just heard from an authoritative source in the broadcast engineering industry that WABC-TV has its own plans for resuming digital broadcasting. And yes, the early November date on their website is as firm as things get in New York. The key development is that, come November, those splendid digital pixels will not be coming from the Empire State Building where lawyers for the stations are still squabbling, but from a different location in the heart of Times Square!:D

Yes ! Great news lets hope its true.

I'm in Rockland county, NY and just set up a RS U-75R (UHF Yagi)in my attic pointed to 186°, no preamp and pulling in 2-1(CBS), 5-1 (FOX) and 5-2(UPN) all about 85%. However, I can't get a signal for 12-1(PIX). Does anyone know why? Is it because my antenna is having problems with channel 12 or is the station's power so low that I can't pick it up or is the direction different than 186°.

jb- I'm in Fairfield County, CT, and have the same situation. I can get CBS & FOX/UPN but no WPIX (which is actually UHF channel 33, shouldn't be a problem with the antenna). I believe it's a power issue?

Anyone outside of city limits getting WPIX-DT?

Originally posted by Chriš
I can get CBS & FOX/UPN but no WPIX (which is actually UHF channel 33, shouldn't be a problem with the antenna). I believe it's a power issue?
WPIX-DT is not yet on channel 33. They are temporarily on VHF channel 12 at about 125 watts.

Originally posted by Bogney Baux
WPIX-DT is not yet on channel 33. They are temporarily on VHF channel 12 at about 125 watts.

Well I guess that's part of my problem! I was going off antennaweb.org which said 33 was now live. I tried 12 though, still nothing - I think I have a better chance of getting stations from Philly.

I can pick up ch 12 in Northern NJ using a preamp and a simple pair of rabbit ear antenna oriented in just the right way. Not as reliable as CBS, but I was able to watch several shows without much problem.

Originally posted by MicroChip
At least for now, http://www.abc45online.com/ still maintains that ABC-DT expects to begin digital transmission in early November (a month away).

Isn't there somebody we can contact at WABC to ask them? Clearly if the Empire combiner deal is dead until at least March, that WABC either has a backup plan to get on the air next month, or does not update a site that we monitor with great regularity.

Thoughts?

MC

If you go here (http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/stations.asp) it states that both ABC and NBC are to resume broadcasting in Dec of this year. Is that site not accurate as well?

"If you go here it states that both ABC and NBC are to resume broadcasting in Dec of this year. Is that site not accurate as well?"

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Someone in the past has said that the dates on that site are simply permit dates that have to be renewed every six months, hence 12/31 and 6/31.

Time will tell....

Doug