Mine came as advertised: a brand new, $1,100 dual-conversion online UPS for $145, and with a brand new battery (since they've sat in a warehouse for 7 years). I myself bought mine simply for the benefit of a full-time power regenerator with pure sine wave output (which is what the high-end dual conversion UPS' do) -- keeping my DVR up and running after a power loss is the fringe benefit for me. Either way, it's way above your garden-variety CompUSA UPS, and at the price, it's like stealing.

Unfortunately, I can't give you much of a performance testimonial, since my home theater is waiting for me to finish completing the room it's going in. I did hook it up to the tv and dvr sitting on the bare floor, lol. They're both dazzled.

Thanks. Next question - is it a standard battery or is it proprietary? IOW, will I be able to replace it eventually, since the unit is no longer made?

Thanks. Next question - is it a standard battery or is it proprietary? IOW, will I be able to replace it eventually, since the unit is no longer made?

Heh. I had the exact same question. It's a standard battery -- that's how he's putting new ones in when he receives the order. He told me the shelf life is ~7 years, depending on how much battery time (no ac) it's on.

Wow, I actually read this whole thread, and in some ways I'm more confused now.

When I started reading I was sold on the SM units.

BUT...towards the end, I saw posts claiming that MOV's actually offer better protection, and that even though they're consumable they will last for years (unless you live in an area with really bad power), and many come with long warranties that that will replace them when they do wear out.

I don't need a unit that will potentially improve performance, since I don't have a really high end system (total cost was about $2k)
I don't think I need a UPS as I very rarely have outages, and when I do it's usually during a storm, in which case, I'm not going to be watching TV, and will probably unplug it.
Also whole house protection is out, since I'm in an apartment.

So any recommendations on something to protect a 42" plasma, DVD, Sony HT receiver and powered sub, maybe a cable box in the future?


Also, I know it's kind of off topic, but any recommendations on a unit for my computer (laptop, Bluetooth receiver, printer/scanner, 2 external drives, external DVD/RW, 15" LCD, wireless router)?
I'm using an 8 outlet APC SurgeArrest now.
Only problem is the coaxial protector on it kills my internet connection, but since everything is wireless, is that really a concern?
The only thing that would get fried through that line would be the modem and router, right?

grunzter, check out the panamax M8HC-PRO.

Heh. I had the exact same question. It's a standard battery -- that's how he's putting new ones in when he receives the order. He told me the shelf life is ~7 years, depending on how much battery time (no ac) it's on.

you make it so easy! thanks for the info.

No problem -- the info's all pretty fresh on my mind since I just recently wrapped up my own research into the dual-conversion UPS', and bought the Axxium. My only regret is I didn't step up and buy the last 3000va unit he had (so I could run my amps off of it if I wanted to).

grunzter, check out the panamax M8HC-PRO.
Thanks, after checking it out and seeing what some others users have said about this unit, I decided to go with it.

Amazon has it on sale now too, for only $91, much less than other dealers.

I've got both a monster power HTS-5100 and a belkin pf60 and I don't have a use for one of them. The question is.... which can I part with?

Any advice on why to keep one over the other aside from the appearance things? In other words, does one do a better job at conditioning/filtering? Are there any real life experiences when trying to file a claim if you ever get damage? Stuff like that...

Thanks

well as i can tell this thread is the be all and end all of info ... i have a question here ... can you tell me which one of these ups units are better and quite.. it will be going with my adcom 615.. to run my samsung hlt6187s tv ... and 2 dvd players and my amp...total watts is 360 not including my hd box.. but want room for upgrades .. like we all do



http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H10BLK

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=S15BLK


or one of these units ...http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3151

No problem -- the info's all pretty fresh on my mind since I just recently wrapped up my own research into the dual-conversion UPS', and bought the Axxium. My only regret is I didn't step up and buy the last 3000va unit he had (so I could run my amps off of it if I wanted to).

I see that the Axxium is a rack-mount unit.

Are the ears removable?

Does it provide surge protection as well?

And last, if you tolerate another question, are there a coax input/output connectors?

I just spent the last hour going over some of this thread and I find it really interesting. Definitely some good information in here especially coming from someone who just uses basic surge protectors to protect anything. I life in California so most of the thunderstorms and such aren't a huge problem for me. In the last 11 years I've lived here I think I've only had at most 5 blackouts and a few brown outs and luckily I have had no equipment go bad. I am planning on buying an XBR5 so I am starting to take this power stuff more seriously. I was just thinking of getting a Belkin PureAV AP30800-10 and hooking up my components to that. Would something like that do if I don't really have to worry about surges? Thanks!

well as i can tell this thread is the be all and end all of info ... i have a question here ... can you tell me which one of these ups units are better and quite.. it will be going with my adcom 615.. to run my samsung hlt6187s tv ... and 2 dvd players and my amp...total watts is 360 not including my hd box.. but want room for upgrades .. like we all do



http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H10BLK

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=S15BLK


or one of these units ...http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3151

The middle one, the S-15, is the best unit of these three. There are TrippLite and other computer UPS brands that make comparable units to the S-15, but you have to move into their "online, dual-conversion" models for that (I believe the TrippLite version is called "Smart Online"). I suspect a refurbished 1500va to 2200va would be a fraction of the S-15s cost (which is the allure of taking this route).

I see that the Axxium is a rack-mount unit.

Are the ears removable?

Does it provide surge protection as well?

And last, if you tolerate another question, are there a coax input/output connectors?

I'd have to eye-ball the unit tonight to see if the rack ears are removable. Based on page 8 of the manual, http://www.powerware.com/Products/end_of_life_Manuals.asp, it looks like they are.

I suggest doing a +conversion +ups search for an answer to your surge protection question, unless someone else can chime in. I'm using a whole-house surge protector so I didn't buy my Axxium for that purpose. However, I'm pretty certain that by default it is a surge protector because as it is a full-time (aka "online") UPS that is always converting power to DC and back again to AC, a surge can get no farther. But, this wasn't the thrust of my interest in these, so I could be wrong.

It does not have coaxial input/output.

The middle one, the S-15, is the best unit of these three. There are TrippLite and other computer UPS brands that make comparable units to the S-15, but you have to move into their "online, dual-conversion" models for that (I believe the TrippLite version is called "Smart Online"). I suspect a refurbished 1500va to 2200va would be a fraction of the S-15s cost (which is the allure of taking this route).



thanks kitch. i was leaning towards that one also.. because i need a good ac regulator .. with it also.. for brownouts and stuff.. so i think with my adcom this should make a good combo..

thanks kitch. i was leaning towards that one also.. because i need a good ac regulator .. with it also.. for brownouts and stuff.. so i think with my adcom this should make a good combo..

As an aside, I've seen these and equivalent models (Exact Power and Audiophile APS) pop up used on A'gon from time to time. Keep an eye out. Speaking of the devil -- thought I'd check after I typed that and if it's still available, there is a black S-15 being advertised.

Thanks Kitchener.

It does look like the ears are removable--although the Ebay sellers says not. It also looks like the unit can be wall mounted on its side, which would be a plus for me since my cabinet is not deep enough.

Although it doesn't do surge protection on the cable connection, I guess I could buy a separate filter for this. The full-time UPS feature would seem to address power fluctuations--if I understanding how it functions.

My biggest gripe is loosing the presets on my plasma ever time the power hiccups--or Charter decides to initialize my cablecard.

Upon physical inspection, the ears are not removable. They're part of the sides. However, as they're not part of the front faceplate, you could try simply reversing the sides, with the ears then in back (combat tactics). Speaking of which, one caveat is fan noise. The same day you order the Axxium, do a google search on Silenx fans, and get yourself their 14db 80mm x 25mm fan (about 10 bucks or 15 bucks if you want the LED variety). Essential unless you're not going to have the UPS in the room. The existing 47db fan was too much white noise for me. With the Silenx, problem solved. Another alternative, depending on the load you plan for it, is to simply unplug the existing fan. The seller suggested this to me as these don't run all that hot. I did it for a while and the case only ever got lukewarm. After some research turned up the Silenx approach, at the cost of one, I thought might as well, and that turned out fine. I have a balanced power component solely plugged into it, and off of that I'm running my pre-amp, my dvd player, the kids' Wii and PS2, the Sat/TiVo box, and my CRT television (which will transform into a plasma this fall). I'm still running my amps straight into the wall, but the current load doesn't even break 50% of the Axxium's full load meter, so I'm tempted to give it a sound test with the amps plugged in.

I have an older house that probably does not have the best electrical setting. For example, my lights dim when my condensing unit kicks on; but so does every other house on the block that I have been in.

None the less, I want to get a solution for my HT protection. I have a Pioneer 50 PDP, an AV unit, DVR, Powered Sub & DVD player connected to a simple surge protector.

With the exception of rewiring my house for a propane generator, what would be my best solution to protect these items? I will be on a budget of about 100-200.

Thanks in advance

[QUOTE=strutter;...SHAPE MAGNETRONICS LINETAMER PCLT 600 POWER CONDITIONER ....ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT?[/QUOTE]

Hope you still need an answer. I just got one yesterday. This is a generic device that has been around for decades, namely the ferroresonant regulator (FR). Operationally, there is nothing to do but not overload them by exceeding the output rating.

A standard transformer produces a secondary voltage proportional to the turns ratio of the windings. The FR is different in that it is wound to produce extra voltage out, say, 160 volts, and then a tertiary resonant winding is added to saturate the magnetic core, thus dragging the voltage back down to the desired 120. The resonant winding consists of an ordinary one paralleled with a capacitor, so that it is tuned to 60 Hz, causing the core to "fill up" with magnetism. If a high-voltage spike comes along, it can't get through because the core is "full." If a low-voltage sag comes along, some of the suppressed extra 40 volts is allowed to fill in. Thus highs and lows are not allowed to the output. Simple, huh?

And now for the disadvantages. 1) Because the device is tuned to 60 Hz, if the AC supply varies, the voltage out varies. This is not likely on the power grid, but could happen if you run your own power system (gas generator, wind, etc.). 2) The saturation method knocks the tops off the AC sine wave, so there is distortion of the power, i.e. harmonics of 60 Hz. That might be of some concern for audio use. 3) If the resonant winding or cap goes bad, your equipment gets up to the full 160 (or whatever) volts of the secondary. This could be a disaster for any expensive load equipment, to say the least. This is a rare occurrance because of the bullet-proof nature of the components in the FR, but it is a risk one must keep in mind.

The FR, being typically unshielded, has tight capacitive coupling between primary and secondary FR windings as in any ordinary transformer, so RFI and other noises will not be blocked by it. So if you want to keep out RFI, you will need to use other filtering methods.

These are on sale on the Web, but being chunks of iron, the shipping cost exceeds the purchase price! That ought to "filter out" a few sales.

thanks CampKohler, i have asked about this unit on several different forums and was basically told it was a brownout box. no one ever attempted to go into as much depth as you did above. i have decided not to use it and it currently occupies a spot in the garage. thanks alot for that information. i have looked everywhere for any information about it and came up empty. where did your info come from?

I wanted to get some feedback after reading this quite extensive forum on a potential setup.

I live in South FLorida and have frequent brownouts as well as lightning surges. I have lost a RPTV (CRT) from lightning and countless sat boxes.

I was thinking of a surgender at the sat input to the house, FPL whole house "lightning surge suppressor" for $9/mo, a dedicated 20 A circuit for the home theater and then putting an Adcom (or other series surge suppressor) into the outlet, a UPS into that, and then my Tice Power Block III signature series into that.

For the outlets themselves, should I use something like the PS AUdio product or is that unnecessary with all the other stuff?
Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks for the input.

Upon physical inspection, the ears are not removable. They're part of the sides. However, as they're not part of the front faceplate, you could try simply reversing the sides, with the ears then in back (combat tactics). Speaking of which, one caveat is fan noise. The same day you order the Axxium, do a google search on Silenx fans, and get yourself their 14db 80mm x 25mm fan (about 10 bucks or 15 bucks if you want the LED variety). Essential unless you're not going to have the UPS in the room. The existing 47db fan was too much white noise for me. With the Silenx, problem solved. Another alternative, depending on the load you plan for it, is to simply unplug the existing fan. The seller suggested this to me as these don't run all that hot. I did it for a while and the case only ever got lukewarm. After some research turned up the Silenx approach, at the cost of one, I thought might as well, and that turned out fine. I have a balanced power component solely plugged into it, and off of that I'm running my pre-amp, my dvd player, the kids' Wii and PS2, the Sat/TiVo box, and my CRT television (which will transform into a plasma this fall). I'm still running my amps straight into the wall, but the current load doesn't even break 50% of the Axxium's full load meter, so I'm tempted to give it a sound test with the amps plugged in.

Just an FYI that I ordered an Axxium from the ebay seller. Thanks for the advice, and I'll try to deliver an update when I get everything in place.

Just an FYI that I ordered an Axxium from the ebay seller. Thanks for the advice, and I'll try to deliver an update when I get everything in place.

Yeah, I've been meaning to get one of those for a month, now. I've been really careful in the meanwhile by not watching the television during thunderstorms. However, I still got busted this past weekend by an unexplained (to me) power outage. About 2 hours after I reset the colors from the last outage and about 5 minutes before I planned to shut my rptv down and go to bed. Sigh. So now, I have officially experienced a shutdown without allowing the lamp to cool:eek:!

Yeah, I've been meaning to get one of those for a month..


Don't do what I did. I procrastinated on whether to get the 3000va version or not (no chance of limiting current to my amps with that kind of power), and he sold his last one in the interim. I'll never be able to duplicate that deal on a used (refurbished) one. When he sells off the last of the 1000va's (which are new units), you'll be forced to buy a refurb from someone else, and you'd have to spend a lot more (the dual-conversion refurbs are upwards of $300 or more, normally).

Best Power sold ferroresonant devices. They went out of business years ago. Eaton took them over, I believe. This approach just wasn't popular for whatever reason, and apparently was audibly noisy. I bought one, but it was stolen as I shipped out to Guam and I never got to use it.

Best Power sold ferroresonant devices. They went out of business years ago. Eaton took them over, I believe. This approach just wasn't popular for whatever reason, and apparently was audibly noisy. I bought one, but it was stolen as I shipped out to Guam and I never got to use it.

Yes, Eaton (PowerWare) bought them out about 6 years ago. Instead of re-badging the existing inventory, they sold it off. The (then $1100) new Best Power Axxiums we're discussing are dual-conversion, online UPS' that were sold by the pallet in unopened boxes around that time.
The fan noise on any of these online (full-time) UPS' is a bit noisy, but for the Axxium I bought it was a relatively easy fix. I simply bought a $9 Silenx fan and now the fan noise is inaudible unless you're right next to the unit.

Yes, Eaton (PowerWare) bought them out about 6 years ago. Instead of re-badging the existing inventory, they sold it off. The (then $1100) new Best Power Axxiums we're discussing are dual-conversion, online UPS' that were sold by the pallet in unopened boxes around that time.
The fan noise on any of these online (full-time) UPS' is a bit noisy, but for the Axxium I bought it was a relatively easy fix. I simply bought a $9 Silenx fan and now the fan noise is inaudible unless you're right next to the unit.

How easy is it to replace the fan (for someone whose greatest achievement is programming the vcr!)?

How easy is it to replace the fan (for someone whose greatest achievement is programming the vcr!)?


My expertise is on par with your's. It was easy stuff. The only catch is you may need to make a pit stop at a computer store (maybe Radio Shack) and buy an el cheapo computer toolkit, as the screw heads for the case aren't the traditional straight or phillips-type heads. Or, like me, you can turn to a computer-head buddy and borrow his set. One variable did pop up but it was an easy fix. The stock fan's connector was a two-pin. The connector that comes with the Silenx is a three-pin (there are other aftermarket extra quiet fans, but that's the one I'd heard most consistently mentioned in past AVS discussions of online UPS'). Silenx was pretty helpful. They sent me the wiring diagram. The wire on the left is the ground, the wire in the middle the 12v, and the wire on the right useless for our UPS fan needs. The stock Axxium fan's wire are simply red for the 12v, and black for the ground, so after some splicing and taping, voila!

Another approach is simply unplugging the factory fan. The seller suggested this, as they don't run very hot. I went this direction while I waited for the Silenx fan, and the case never got more than lukewarm.

Just a quick update on the Axxium 1000. I received the unit yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to see it was a pristine unit. I popped in a Silenx 14 db fan as Kitchener suggested and let it charge overnight. This morning I moved it to a temporary position and plugged in my Pioneer 5070 to see how much it would affect the power reserve. I was a bit surprised that the unit stayed at one green bar (<25%), considering that this plasma draws something like 340 watts. One observation, even the 14 db fan might be a bit loud for my setup. I may switch it the 9 db fan even though it will cut the cfm from 32 to 20.

Oops. Just checked again and the unit is showing two bars, so the plasma is drawing 25-50% of capacity. That's more in line with what I expected. Also, I having a lot of "noise" on the analog channels, but that could just be Charter playing with the bandwidth.

I've actually observed the same thing -- very little power draw. It sometimes crosses over to the 2nd bar (>25% and <50%), but only just. Regardless, pretty neat getting a brand-new $1100 unit for under $200, especially when the equivalent refurb of a comparable unit would be upwards of $300 (probably more). Based on my experience running it without a fan at all, not to mention our mutual findings that these things have power to spare (and hence aren't going to be working too hard in our HT setups), I suspect dropping to the 9 db fan with a 20 cfm versus 32 for the 14 db probably isn't any big deal.

The picture noise issues I mentioned were apparently related to a loose connection. If anything, the picture looks much richer--especially on high def channels. Have you noticed something similar or is it my imagination.

The picture noise issues I mentioned were apparently related to a loose connection. If anything, the picture looks much richer--especially on high def channels. Have you noticed something similar or is it my imagination.

I've been reluctant to report similar observations because I haven't taken the time to A/B test it. To my eye, the picture is richer, and a bit brighter, too.

Well I'm new to Home Theater and while I am a musician and an audio enthusiast I am by no means an adioPHILE. I am, however, a power supply designer and electrical engineer (IC level). Everything that I say after this is made with the disclaimer that I in no way want to offend anyone who pours thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours in to their setup. That being said.

An above poster made the statement that the two questions regarding surge protection and line conditioning are very different. I want to echo that statement with a few other comments. Surge protection is very important if you are going to plug anything expensive into your house mains. A lot of electronics, though, now have built in surge protection but you can't always count on this. When buying a surge protector the main concern is how much power it can handle passed through it. If you have a TV burning several hundred Watts and a stereo burning several hundred (or thousand) more you probably will need a beefier than normal power strip. Also, a lot of the "nicer" surge protectors will insure whatever is plugged into them from surge related damage which.

As far as line conditioning goes I have always been of the opinion that it is worth slightly more than nothing. Most of the input power supplies you see in whatever you're plugging in nowadays should have good PSRRs (power supply rejection ratios). That is assuming these guys put 1/10th as much thought into their supply designs as they do into all their other circuitry. It's really not that hard to build an input supply that gets rid of most of the line noise (not surges and large spikes just small signal noise) before it gets to any of your circuitry. Basically your TV (for example) will have a AC-DC power converter built into it. This converter itself will reject a good amount of noise seen on your AC line that will never make it to the set's internal supply. Now after this you have an internal supply with some amount of reduced noise on it. This noise isn't even on any actual signals yet. All of the signal path circuitry is going to have it's own PSRR which should be also very good. Any typical amplifier will let hardly any noise from its supply get onto its signal. If you have an amplifier designer who is paying a lot of attention to PSRR then its rejection will be huge.

I've always felt that the whole Line conditioning market is a scam. It's important to protect your expensive equipment from possible damage, but it's my opinion that if you are looking into buying a line conditioner then I hope you've bought basically everything else you could ever want in life and you still have money to burn. That's just my opinion I'm sure there are people out there who swear by them, and I really do not want to offend anyone.

No doubt, balanced power and power regenerators are part of the audiophile's attempt at chasing that elusive last 10% of performance increase. But in my own case, my use of a combination of the two is simply in response to a basic need for a power strip instead of a massive gang of wall outlets, and once taking that plunge, an attempt at "doing no harm" (aka limiting current, et al). If I do get performance benefits from it, so much the better.

However, a couple hours of using the AVS search feature quickly provides corroboration of what you say, that your basic line conditioners fall way shy of their performance enhancement claims, be it Furman or Monster or Panamax, etc. On the other hand, both here and at the forums on A'gon, there seems to be a lot of agreement that both balanced power transformers and power regenerators can provide benefits. Being a bit of a skeptic myself (finding that 1ast 10% of performance can be an expensive waste of money), and again, looking for something that basically allows me to plug all my stuff into it instead of 89 wall receptacles (but without any negative performance results), finding a great price on a used dual-conversion UPS (or in the case of the Axxium we're discussing, a new, unsold 7 year old model) seems definitely a great end-around instead of purchasing an audiophile version of a power regenerator from PS Audio, Audiophile APS or Exact Power, all well over $1k or even $2k. And I get the fringe benefit of keeping my TiVo going in a power outage, lol. Obviously for others, it also offers the protection of expensive bulbs.

Here's a couple interesting links on power regeneration with the caveat that it's by a company hawking its own ware$ -- but it does provide some helpful overviews of both power regeneration and line conditioning. http://www.purepoweraps.com/Top5.htm and http://www.purepoweraps.com/regen.htm. Given the controversial nature of all things power-related coupled with the high cost of the item they're hawking and its equivalent competitors, I'm positively giddy about my $145 double-conversion Axxium solution, which does the same thing as the unit they're describing, and provides me all the connectivity I need.

I should have known better than bringing up the "picture improvement" issue in a power discussion thread. ;)

It wasn't part of my motivation to go with the Axxium. I really wanted a reliable UPS strategy that might prevent my plasma from resetting the presets every time the power flickered. I looked at some of the $1500 units and couldn't justify the cost.

My comment on the perceived quality improvement could be (1) wishful thinking on my part or (2) just coincidental with my cable provider suddenly discovering quality control. :D

PS. I have the UPS plugged into a surge protector as well and am still considering adding a whole house unit.

Just a quick update on the Axxium. I replaced the 14 db fan with a 9 db model. So far no heat issues. I have my 50" plasma, hd dvd and blu-ray players, and receiver all plugged in. Hi def produces a bigger current draw but so far the Axxium is still under 50%. I'm using the receiver as a pre-pro and might experiment with unplugging the external amps just to see what happens.

I'm tempted to try the same thing next time I get the notion to tinker. Let us know how it turns out. Seems like mine has power to spare, that's for sure. Bout to replace my CRT with a 60" plasma, so that might climb the usage scale, I suppose.

I have a question about the Axxium. I have a 5 channel Hypex amp that I built up. If I were to buy the Axxium, would hooking it up the this UPS limit current at all? What I do not understand is whether the VA ratings on these UPS's only has to do with the amount of time thye can sustain a load during a power failure, or if it has some affect due to the power regeneration on the regular load connected to the UPS. Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, I have no technical knowledge that could be of help, only practical experience with owning one. I don't know what the output of your Hypex is, but I suspect if you ran that and only that off of the 1000va Axxium, you would be just fine. My Axxium is powering a 60" plasma, a balanced power transformer, a dvd player, a home theater processor, a dvd player, a satellite/TiVo box, and two game consoles. The Axxium has light meters that display its load in 25% increments, and this load above sometimes breaks into the 50% - 75% of full load capacity. I do know that if you "overload" it, it simply will bypass the ac-to-dc-to-ac conversion (power regeneration) so you don't lose power. The amount of the load once the power goes out, as you probably already know, will affect how fast the UPS runs down. My plan is to always shut down the plasma if the lights go out -- shutting off the plasma usually drops the load down below 25% of the full load capacity, thereby extending how long my TiVo will stay up and running.

Again, I have no technical knowledge to apply here, but based on when I was researching these things, I did ascertain that if you want one UPS to run your entire HT system (for me, everything I'm currently running plus my amps, though maybe not my sub), 2200VA is more like the right number, maybe 1500va on the inside. Again, if you simply dedicate the UPS just to your amp, you should be fine -- look at the capacity meter and that might help you determine what else you can throw on there.

All:

What a great thread. Here is what I want....

I really don't have the space for a full sized surge suppressor, and have been looking at smaller options to get the job done. I think I have found the right two solutions, but was wondering peoples' opinion here.

The first is a Tripp-Lite SpikeCube. Small compact UL1449.

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=120
http://www.tripplite.com/shared/img/products/large/Spike%2DCube%2Ejpg

The other option was

A Leviton Surge receptacle . This is NOT a GFCI. Joules are a little low though.


http://www.lashen.com/vendors/leviton/spd-Receptacles.asp
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/Leviton/images/5280.jpg


Will any of these protect a plasma? Comments?

All:

What a great thread. Here is what I want....

I really don't have the space for a full sized surge suppressor, and have been looking at smaller options to get the job done. I think I have found the right two solutions, but was wondering peoples' opinion here.

The first is a Tripp-Lite SpikeCube. Small compact UL1449.
The other option was

A Leviton Surge receptacle . This is NOT a GFCI. Joules are a little low though.

Will any of these protect a plasma? Comments?


Some surge protection is better than none. Ideal would be to start at the electrical panel with a surge device, then a surge protected receptical and finally a filtered surge protected multi outlet device.
The goal being to divert any surges back to ground. Think of a surge protector as a diverter switch. If the incoming surge reaches the limit of the protector it switches the surge to ground preventing it from reaching your equipment.
The reason for multiple layers is if the surge exceeds the capacity of the first device the remaining energy is caught by the remaining devices further down the line.

If your local utility is of fair quality the surge protectors should come see little usage. More often than not they will help protect from line surges during proximity lightning strikes. To be 100% safe from a direct hit
on the lines outside your house you would have to be unplugged.

If you go with the recepticle (leviton) make sure you pick the one for standard ground and not isolated ground. Isolated ground is indicated by the small triangle on the recepicle face.

Thanks eddicus.

Im gonna order this for my new RPTV. Seems to do the job for a decent price.

Belkin PureAV AP30800-10


http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10389018&listingid=10665426&dcaid=17902

anyone else have one of these?

Have you done any shopping, either for price or function? What are you trying to accomplish? Have you looked at the specs?

I am thinking of a relatively basic and inexpensive way to protect a RPTV that draws approximately 250 watts:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3082

Any thoughts?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812102407

Is all you need.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812102407

Is all you need.

But what about blackouts? If I loose power I would like to have the fan run for a few minutes to cool off the bulb. That's why I think of a UPS with enough power for a RPTV.

Comments?

Im gonna order this for my new RPTV. Seems to do the job for a decent price.

Belkin PureAV AP30800-10


http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10389018&listingid=10665426&dcaid=17902

anyone else have one of these?

I just ordered one today. Not bad price overall.

But what about blackouts? If I loose power I would like to have the fan run for a few minutes to cool off the bulb. That's why I think of a UPS with enough power for a RPTV.

Comments?

I took his comment into consideration and decided to just buy a surge suppressor for now. UPS is definitely good for RPTV's. So ill probably just buy a 550 or 750 APS UPS in the next month or so and connect only my TV and DVR into it, while everything goes into the surge suppressor.

The main thing keeping me from buying the belkin power console was the noise I've read it makes for most people. Also i don't have much room for it on my TV stand.

I've read that many people do not hear or noise, or it doesn't bother them. But I had some budget restraints since i just bought my first HDTV (KDS-50A3000) and went for just a basic surge protector for now.

What's up all,
I read the first few pages of this thread, but I can't read 44 pages worth to figure this out and people keep going back and forth on what to get :-)

My Tivo is shot...Froze up at 1:37am 2 nights ago. Now it won't boot back up...Tivo says the HDD is shot. I agree. I think it might have been a power surge of some kind through either the coax cable or the network line. Lucky it happened with the return time to CC so my wife is bringing it back today to replace it.

I have at least 3 $50 - $100 surge supressors (APC and Monser) that all of my HD equiptment is pluged into.

I have never had any problems with this since I moved to Verizon Fios cable from comcast. I wonder if they do something different...Ever since I switched my TV has been doing some weird things (power-wise) and now the TIVO is dead.

I need HELP!

Like I said I have all of the equiptment plugged into power strips with surge protection. So do I need to buy new ones? Or maybe something better in front of those that will take the hit? I also need something for my data-lines. Only one of the power strips have coax-in/out. Anything recommended for that...Would rather not have to but a full new power strip just to get the protection for the data-lines, but I will if I have to.

Here is my set up:
Samsung DLP TV
Tivo S3 with 2 cable cards
Reciever
Game systems

I have x-10 light switches so I have the power strips pluged into a "noise reducer" since the strips where interfiering with the x-10 signals.

Thanks very much for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I have x-10 light switches so I have the power strips pluged into a "noise reducer" since the strips where interfiering with the x-10 signals."

Look for a proper ground set up on your Comcast - some installers don't bother, but it should be grounded to your water pipes if possible; or like my Directv, they installed a separate ground bar for ALL coax cables.

Assuming x-10 is some sort of lighting; I would remove that set up and power your lights from another circuit - lights and home theater do not mix well.

Power strips are OK - but I would consider some sort of console model similar tp a Monster 3500 or better.

Have read a lot on this thread. Still trying to figure out how many joules is enough.

hi- i had the same question as the above post... worst buy et al. are usually not trustworthy enough to believe on this since they're the same ones showing the $100-200 monster strips...

currently have a surge protector(somewhere >1000j i think) connected to a few a/v devices and rptv (with lamp) and saw a (~cheap) surge/apc battery backup i'm considering- but it only has 365j protection which sounds miniscule compared to other stand alones (and other higher priced surge/back up devices).

is that too low?

thanks in advance- this site has been great for figuring out things like hdmi cables from online sources like monoprice... hoping to get some good quick info on joule-rating...

hi- i had the same question as the above post... worst buy et al. are usually not trustworthy enough to believe on this since they're the same ones showing the $100-200 monster strips...

currently have a surge protector(somewhere >1000j i think) connected to a few a/v devices and rptv (with lamp) and saw a (~cheap) surge/apc battery backup i'm considering- but it only has 365j protection which sounds miniscule compared to other stand alones (and other higher priced surge/back up devices).

is that too low?

thanks in advance- this site has been great for figuring out things like hdmi cables from online sources like monoprice... hoping to get some good quick info on joule-rating...

Hopefully the attached link and pasted info answers your questions. Click on "residential surge protection"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=joules+in+a+lightning+strike&spell=1

Answer to a post in another website as to how can a surge supressor work if a lightening strike can produce 1,000,000,000 jolules of energy.

As you suspect, a lightning strike that hits power lines doesn't transfer all of its energy to the ground via one path. If it just dumped all of its energy straight into the electricity grid then it would indeed, as you say, cause widespread havoc. But this isn't what happens.
Power poles are, generally, designed to dump lightning to earth; the insulators between the power wires and the pole might as well not be there as far as the lightning's concerned, and the pole probably has a lightning-rod conductor running down it.
One pole's lightning rod doesn't get rid of all of a lightning bolt's energy, but a few consecutive poles will all do their bit, and thus the area of the power grid that'll suffer a dangerous spike can be surprisingly small.
It still pays to have good power conditioning hardware, though, if you live somewhere with dodgy mains or a lot of lightning storms. A whole-house system installed by an electrician is likely to be much better than any number of plug-in power conditioners, and "surge suppressor" power boards are likely to be pretty much useless.
If lightning strikes the power pole outside your house then it's unlikely that any power conditioning hardware will save you from losing not just all of your appliances, but most of your household wiring - but at least your house won't be blown to bits, as it definitely would be if by some quirk of fate all of a lightning strike's energy were released there

But what about blackouts? If I loose power I would like to have the fan run for a few minutes to cool off the bulb. That's why I think of a UPS with enough power for a RPTV.

Comments?


Don't worry about it. It is simply not that big of a problem. The lack of cooling of the lamp after the power is turned off occasionally in outages is just not that big of a deal. We have been selling hundreds of lamp based systems in an area of frequent outages for many years and rarely install a UPS on any system. We have not had lamp problems at all.

On the other hand, a UPS would be really nice if you record a lot of events with a DVR when you're away from home....

Don't worry about it. It is simply not that big of a problem. The lack of cooling of the lamp after the power is turned off occasionally in outages is just not that big of a deal. We have been selling hundreds of lamp based systems in an area of frequent outages for many years and rarely install a UPS on any system. We have not had lamp problems at all.

Also you could just get a bulb warranty form Mack, Phillips, or any other company that will pay for the bulb for you. Only problem is sometimes you have to sign up within a certain amount of time from purchase of the TV (30 days, 9 months, etc..)

That bulb is gonna die no matter what. So instead of worrying about UPS I just bought a decent surge protector.

Icaillo

How About this???


http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=110492-16503-PB003125&lpage=none

It's a Prime Elite series satellite TV serge protector.

Seems to be only sold by Lowes as I have only found one other site that sells it. http://fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=16454

Lowes in my area only had these surge protectors.


Tech Specifications

UL 1449 2nd edition Listed TVSS

Electrical rating: 15A-125VAC-1874W-60Hz line Freq.

UL Supressed Voltage Rating. 330V (A 6000V spike is clamped to 330V)

Clamping Response time: Les then 1 nanosecond

Max Surge Dissipation: 3750 Joules (8x20mm)

EMI/RFI Noise rejection

EMI/RFI Noise Filter

Clear Power Auto shutoff Safe Guard





Then there is the Power Sentry that I can pick up at Walmart

Electrical and Power Line protection Rating 12gV/15A/1875W

4000 Joules (8x20us wave form)

Lines protected - H-N, H-G, N-G

Max surge - 6000 voltz

max peak current - H-N 240000 Ampers, H-G 24000 Ampers, N-G 24000 Ampers

Response time less then 1 nano second

V3 Technology


How are both of these compared to the one you suggested?

Brand CyberPower
Series Office Professional
Model 1080
Specification
Outlets 4 Transformer Spaced
6 Non-Transformer Spaced
Cord Length 8 Feet
Input Voltage 120V
Output Amperage Capacity 15
Maximum Spike Amperage 150,000 Amps
AC Suppression Joule Rating 3600 Joules
EMI/RFI Noise Filter 150KHz to 100MHz
AC Clamping 330 Volts
Protection Modes H-N, N-G and H-G
Certifications UL Listed, CSA Certified
Unit Weight 2.3 lbs.
Unit Dimensions 4" Height x 11.75" Width x 1.75" Depth


They seem to be comparable to me but I don't know anything. My Brain hurts from all of this. I had a UPS until all that I read about "good" and "bad" sine waves. And when I gave the UPS a test run on my reciever the reciever made a funny sound due to the battery current that I knew I did not want running around in my TV for any amount of time. I don't have that many power outs in my area so it has led me to here.

The thing I want to protect most is my 50 inch Sony rear projection 50e3000

Icaillo - You really seem to know your stuff. Please Help.

Woot.com is selling a pretty good product at a good price check it out. It's a UPS, Surge protector and line conditioner all in one

only sells for one day though, and then its gone.

www.woot.com

Icaillo

How About this???

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=110492-16503-PB003125&lpage=none

Then there is the Power Sentry that I can pick up at Walmart

Please Help.

IMO, you need the highest current ratings possible, protection on all signal lines into the system, and a reputation for quality. I use the Panamax produts mostly, because they have been very good and have complete specs on their protection. Most other brands have limited specs, particularly on the signal lines. I found the Cyber Power units to be a reasonable alternative at a lower price, took one apart and found it to be similar in a.c. protection and OK in terms of signal line protection. I am not familiar with the units listed above, but am suspect of anything with limited specs. You can't get much cheaper than the Cyber Power or Tripplite units, nor a better reputation and specs than the Panamax products. Is there something that makes either of the devices you listed a better choice? What makes them appealing? I have posted a challenge on Home Theater Shack to find a better value than one of the cheap Tripplite units, and conclued that the Cyber Power was probably the best value, so I am always open to suggestions, but I don't see the information to make a conclusion on the units above.

The only thing that made these more appealing was that I found them locally. I think I shall order the one you suggested. Thanks!

I just ordered one today. Not bad price overall.

Im gonna order this for my new RPTV. Seems to do the job for a decent price.

Belkin PureAV AP30800-10


http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10389018&listingid=10665426&dcaid=17902

anyone else have one of these?

This looks good and is priced well. Anyone have any feedback?

This looks good and is priced well. Anyone have any feedback?

I purchased a black unit a few weeks ago. It looks great, and I typically run it at about 33% load when watching TV. I haven't haven't tested the UPS functionality yet, but I've been meaning to see how long it can power my equipment when the power is out.

how about one of these...

http://www.audience-av.com/images/adeptN4c.jpg

http://www.audience-av.com/conditioners/ar1p_desc.php

This may be a stupid question, but if the series mode surge suppressors don't shunt a surge to ground, do they need to be plugged into a 3-pronged outlet? The reason I ask is because I live in an old apartment that has the 2-pronged outlets, and I'm trying to find a way to protect my equipment that won't involve the hassle of trying to get the landlord to update the outlets. Thanks.

This may be a stupid question, but if the series mode surge suppressors don't shunt a surge to ground, do they need to be plugged into a 3-pronged outlet? The reason I ask is because I live in an old apartment that has the 2-pronged outlets, and I'm trying to find a way to protect my equipment that won't involve the hassle of trying to get the landlord to update the outlets. Thanks.

I'm not an expert but I'm not aware of any surge protector/line conditioner that does not require a ground. Believe me its worth the hassle to get the grounding type electrical system. However, you can always adhere to the "pidgeon theory". They sit happily on the power lines and never have a problem because they are not grounded.

The old electrical systems are terrible for HTE. A UPS/line conditioner would probably do wonders for you. If you have a problem with the Landlord PM me and I'll walk you through the procedure to add a ground outlet to your system. Its not to difficult if you have a basic understanding of electricty.

Actually, not having a grounded electrical system does not make surge suppressors completely useless, but it does reduce their effectiveness greatly on the a.c. suppression, and may make the signal line protection virtually useless, depending on how the protection is configured. Nearly all have L-N movs which will still clamp the a.c. surges, but not having the ground path can substantially reduce the effectiveness.

I am looking at these two units but need help in pulling the trigger. I like the fact that they will fit into my cabinet instead of behind as the current power strip I have does. They also have a lot of outlets (12 in the case of APC and 13 in the case of Belkin) allowing me to add peices to my system in the future (like a HTPC). Any experience between the two. The APC is about a $150 more but I am not sure why or what it offers above the belkin. The power in my building NYC is pretty stable.

Any advice would be helpful.

Jeff

PS. Items that will be put into it are:

Harmon Kardon avr 235 receiver,
CD player
DVD player,
CRT TV

In the future 2-3 months...
LCD or Plasma (42")
cable box/dvr
HD dvd or blue ray player.

I need some help/advice, please. I have very recently rearranged my HT Set-up/room and have begun experiencing more of a odd and annoying problem from the new outlet being used.

Problem: The audio drops out while certain lights dim when the furnace fires up. I believe that the lights always did dim, never new why but since it now has disrupted my HT/audio life I tracked it down to the furnace kicking on.

Solution: A UPS?

This may be a stupid question, but if the series mode surge suppressors don't shunt a surge to ground, do they need to be plugged into a 3-pronged outlet? The reason I ask is because I live in an old apartment that has the 2-pronged outlets, and I'm trying to find a way to protect my equipment that won't involve the hassle of trying to get the landlord to update the outlets. Thanks.

don't know for sure but SM suppressors are supposed to interrupt the flow path instead of shunting to ground, I just got my Brick Wall to day and it says in the owners manual that it does not rely on the ground circuit. I would not try this with MOVs since they shunt to ground and without a ground path its highly possible the unit could catch on fire. If all else fails call the manufacturer or Email Brick Wall and ask them, there is a link at the beginning of this thread.
HTH, James

Question if anyone knows... What is the difference between the Brickwall 2RAUD and the Zero Surge 2R15W. The specs look identical, and I know that Brickwall is made by Zero Surge. They seem to be the same except for thier price. I am sold on series surge protectors... I have a whole house surge at my panel, and am thinkinf of using a basic UPS in conjunction with one of the above units.

Any help would be great I need to get one of these.

FCT

I need some help/advice, please. I have very recently rearranged my HT Set-up/room and have begun experiencing more of a odd and annoying problem from the new outlet being used.

Problem: The audio drops out while certain lights dim when the furnace fires up. I believe that the lights always did dim, never new why but since it now has disrupted my HT/audio life I tracked it down to the furnace kicking on.

Solution: A UPS?
Short-term solution would be to try connecting everything to a circuit that the furnace isn't on. However, I think you'll find the long-term solution is to put the furnace on its own circuit.
Jim

I need some help/advice, please. I have very recently rearranged my HT Set-up/room and have begun experiencing more of a odd and annoying problem from the new outlet being used.

Problem: The audio drops out while certain lights dim when the furnace fires up. I believe that the lights always did dim, never new why but since it now has disrupted my HT/audio life I tracked it down to the furnace kicking on.

Solution: A UPS?

Don't know how long the interuption in power is but this product may supply an answer as well as surge protection. I would also have your burner checked out, it is possible the starting circuit for the motor is defective causing it to momentarily draw more current than necessary during startup.

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/400.htm

I have a question about this thread, particularly Doug Deacon's post on page 1, which compares MOV with SM suppressors.

It is this: what about a robust MOV combined with a simple 15-amp fuse? Is it possible that the MOV would take more time to fail than the fuse would take to cut the circuit?

The real need here is to protect the equipment from damaging surges. On top of this is peace of mind, especially about 'unknowable' gradual damage from transient spikes. Although SM is the ideal, elegant, "correct" solution, how close does MOV+fuse come in practice?

Hey guys. I have been looking into this stuff for a bit and I have a question. I have an RPTV that I think should have a UPS on it. Currently, I am in an apartment mostly populated with students. As you might imagine, power is fickle at best. We loose it alot. In addition, if there is a ton going on like lots of power to the main rooms (such as loud speakers etc) I can make out a faint flicker on some scenes on my TV.

Consequently, I need some protection. My first thought was a UPS, I looked at the belkin line intially. The Home theater battery backup (AP30800) looked pretty good as a UPS. I really cant afford a true sine wave one, and all I would if i lost power would be to shut everything down normally, not continue to watch, so i dont feel like the approx sine wave would be that bad.

In addition, I would like the conditioning of the PF60 from Belkin to deal with the really bad line noise resulting from our old wiring. Much discussed is the phrase in both of their manuals that they "should not be daisy-chained together". Is that true? Someone, I believe it was Kal, has said on occasion that it was just a warning bc they were worried about overloading all the outlets. BUT on another post I believe I read that they might try to "fight" one another and to just use one or another.

What I would like to do is this:
Wall--->Belkin UPS\AVR---->Belkin PF60-->devices

Understanding that Belkin now has a hybrid unit (way out of my price range), what is the correct answer? I feel like I would benefit from both products, but is daisy chaining really that bad? Thanks in advance guys!!!

Reed

Hey guys. I have been looking into this stuff for a bit and I have a question. I have an RPTV that I think should have a UPS on it. Currently, I am in an apartment mostly populated with students. As you might imagine, power is fickle at best. We loose it alot. In addition, if there is a ton going on like lots of power to the main rooms (such as loud speakers etc) I can make out a faint flicker on some scenes on my TV.

Consequently, I need some protection. My first thought was a UPS, I looked at the belkin line intially. The Home theater battery backup (AP30800) looked pretty good as a UPS. I really cant afford a true sine wave one, and all I would if i lost power would be to shut everything down normally, not continue to watch, so i dont feel like the approx sine wave would be that bad.

In addition, I would like the conditioning of the PF60 from Belkin to deal with the really bad line noise resulting from our old wiring. Much discussed is the phrase in both of their manuals that they "should not be daisy-chained together". Is that true? Someone, I believe it was Kal, has said on occasion that it was just a warning bc they were worried about overloading all the outlets. BUT on another post I believe I read that they might try to "fight" one another and to just use one or another.

What I would like to do is this:
Wall--->Belkin UPS\AVR---->Belkin PF60-->devices

Understanding that Belkin now has a hybrid unit (way out of my price range), what is the correct answer? I feel like I would benefit from both products, but is daisy chaining really that bad? Thanks in advance guys!!!

Reed

bump?

Hey guys. I have been looking into this stuff for a bit and I have a question. I have an RPTV that I think should have a UPS on it. Currently, I am in an apartment mostly populated with students. As you might imagine, power is fickle at best. We loose it alot. In addition, if there is a ton going on like lots of power to the main rooms (such as loud speakers etc) I can make out a faint flicker on some scenes on my TV.

Consequently, I need some protection. My first thought was a UPS, I looked at the belkin line intially. The Home theater battery backup (AP30800) looked pretty good as a UPS. I really cant afford a true sine wave one, and all I would if i lost power would be to shut everything down normally, not continue to watch, so i dont feel like the approx sine wave would be that bad.

In addition, I would like the conditioning of the PF60 from Belkin to deal with the really bad line noise resulting from our old wiring. Much discussed is the phrase in both of their manuals that they "should not be daisy-chained together". Is that true? Someone, I believe it was Kal, has said on occasion that it was just a warning bc they were worried about overloading all the outlets. BUT on another post I believe I read that they might try to "fight" one another and to just use one or another.

What I would like to do is this:
Wall--->Belkin UPS\AVR---->Belkin PF60-->devices

Understanding that Belkin now has a hybrid unit (way out of my price range), what is the correct answer? I feel like I would benefit from both products, but is daisy chaining really that bad? Thanks in advance guys!!!

Reed

I've been trying to figure out the exact same thing and I've been looking at the same units... I can't seem to find any info though on the merits or problems in daisy-chaining the devices. I want a UPS to protect my KDS-60A3000 and PS3 from power outage, but also a line conditioner for all of my A/V devices since I live in an apartment complex with noisy power. I've also heard it's important to make sure the conditioner load can source enough power to any one source, such as a receiver which can be rather power hungry.

And like you I can't afford an expensive unit that does both the conditioning and UPS duties.

Anyone have some sage advice?

The problem with daisy chaining power devices is the increase in resistance in the wiring, increasing the impedance in the path to ground. The device with the better surge suppression should be plugged directly into the wall.

There is little justification for a UPS anyway, IME, and all that is needed is a good surge suppressor that protects all lines connected to the system, and good grounding on all lines into the home.

The problem with daisy chaining power devices is the increase in resistance in the wiring, increasing the impedance in the path to ground. The device with the better surge suppression should be plugged directly into the wall.

There is little justification for a UPS anyway, IME, and all that is needed is a good surge suppressor that protects all lines connected to the system, and good grounding on all lines into the home.

The reason he and I want a UPS though is to allow to bulb on our RPTV's to properly cool down should the power be out for an extended period of time.

My power in my building is pretty good, so I ended up ordering the Belkin PF30L (the one that resembles a big power bar and can go behind an entertainment unit). Would it be reasonable to put a small capacity UPS between it and my RPTV?

It is just not that big of a deal if you lose power infrequently. Don't bother with the UPS unless you have frequent outages. The cool down notion is much less significant than people make it out to be. We have been selling lamp based sets for many years and rarely use UPSs. We just don't see problems with the lamps. We have probably as high an incidence of outages here as anywhere in the US. It just is not a problem.

It is just not that big of a deal if you lose power infrequently. Don't bother with the UPS unless you have frequent outages. The cool down notion is much less significant than people make it out to be. We have been selling lamp based sets for many years and rarely use UPSs. We just don't see problems with the lamps. We have probably as high an incidence of outages here as anywhere in the US. It just is not a problem.

Awesome, thanks for the advice. My previous TV was an RPTV and survived a few blackouts and I did have my doubts as to the severity of this issue. I'll just be going with a power conditioner then.

Quick question...I have a Monsterpower HTS 1000 and am curious about the Coax connections. Right now I have the coax running right into the back of my cable box to ensure minimal loss from the wall to the box. I know the HTS 1000 coax connections are supposed to be "low loss" but for HDTV is there any benefit or loss to using them? Any advice is helpful.

Alright so quick question for all of you experts out there. This is what I'm looking at.
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5525620;jsessionid=AfPV1o-wnq150W7QkqVUKQ**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


For the UPS I would hook up...
-Sony KDS 50-A3000 (believe it draws 195w while on)
-PS3

for just surge I would hook up my...
-Onkyo 505 receiver
-Comcast Motorola HD-DVR

would this be enough? or should I spend the extra bucks for this one?
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5525750;jsessionid=AfPV1o-wnq150W7QkqVUKQ**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I know this is very vague but any help would be appreciated.

does a power condition really make a difference, also i have a 60A3000 will it just add SSE do to noise reduction or will it help to cut back on SSE, finally can anyone tell me some really good conditioners to buy? thanx

Pwer conditioning will have nothing to do with SSE. It will generally have no effect on you video quality on this set. The best power conditioner to buy is the one that solves your problem if you have one. For most people an inexpensive surge suppressor that protects all signal lines is sufficient protection without paying for something that will not benefit the system performance significantly. Spend your money and effort calibrating your system. You will find significant return on your investment compared to power conditioners.

The best power conditioner to buy is the one that solves your problem if you have one.

In my case, I added a "power conditioner" simply because I don't want a bank of a/c inputs in my wall to power all the gear (and growing) in my HT system. I'm curious what others with 9 or more items in their rack are doing about all the plugs? After that, it morphs into a desire to "do no harm," so a simple power strip from the hardware store doesn't seem like a best practice.

I finally settled on getting a Belkin PF30L for the power conditioning (protection from over/under-voltage mostly) and the good surge protection rating. The PF30L also has a high current outlet for my receiver. It works nicely (my cable box gets less studders and random artifacting) and has a pretty low profile to sit behind my entertainment center. It's just like the PF30 guts-wise, but in a "power wand" type casing with wall mount.

I got it for 34.99 from buy.com (44.99 - 10.00 google checkout), and it gives me some good peace of mind with my 60a3000.

I kind of wanted the Belkin PF40L, but I can't seem to find them anymore! Plus, the PF30L was pretty hard to ignore for that price.

EDIT: I did have a question for the more knowledgable people here which was the reason for this post...

Right now I run my cable from the wall to a splitter, and to my cable box and cable modem. I was considering running it through the PF30L, but I had heard that these power conditioners can cut off the needed frequencies. In fact, the PF30L manual says to use the Cable filter for cable and the Aux filter for HDTV, broadband, etc. and gives no other details.

Would I be ok just running the cable to the filter, and out to the splitter, or should I run it to the splitter and into the PF30L (Cable for the Cable box, Aux for the modem), or should I just avoid the PF30L altogether with my cable?

Thanks!

Relatively inexpensively, you could add a whole-house surge protector to your electrical service box (a neighbor who does side work put one in for me for cheap) -- I haven't looked into it, yet, but rumor control has it there might even be a home owner's insurance discount for having it. What's more, you protect everything this way, instead of just your HT.

The two UPS' you linked look like good possibilities if their "automatic voltage regulation" is full time, and not just when the lights go out. I'd ask.

The high-end UPS' (which are called double, or dual, -conversion online UPS') work differently from the traditional UPS you'd find at Staples, et al. In fact, there are mega expensive audiophile components (most notably the PS Audio Premier Power Plant) that do the same thing, but with the "audio" marquee hung on it. Instead of being simply an emergency standby power supply, it is always taking the a/c power, converting it to d/c, and re-converting back to a/c before your gear gets it, thus it is regulating the power in a perfect 120v sine wave (voltage regulation). Oh, and it will also drive you DVR when the lights go out, but... They typically run well over $1k, though refurbished with new batteries, often in the upper $300s.

I have a 1000va dual-conversion UPS with all my sources and display hooked up to it (DVR, pre-amp/processor, dvd player, balanced power transformer, and a 60" plasma) and it usually hovers between a little under or a little over 50% of a full load (on the UPS). I continue to plug my amps straight into the wall. I found mine for $145 on Fleabay.


Alright so quick question for all of you experts out there. This is what I'm looking at.
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5525620;jsessionid=AfPV1o-wnq150W7QkqVUKQ**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


For the UPS I would hook up...
-Sony KDS 50-A3000 (believe it draws 195w while on)
-PS3

for just surge I would hook up my...
-Onkyo 505 receiver
-Comcast Motorola HD-DVR

would this be enough? or should I spend the extra bucks for this one?
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5525750;jsessionid=AfPV1o-wnq150W7QkqVUKQ**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

I know this is very vague but any help would be appreciated.

I really appreciate all of this information, however, I'm currently renting out an apartment, so a whole house surge protector isn't really what I'm looking to get installed. I should have mentioned some more information in my original post such as..

- I live in the south Florida area and there aren't too many blackouts, but a decent amount of brownouts (probably about once a month).
- I currently have the Mack 3 year warranty that will cover up to 2 bulbs for 3 years so I shouldn't have to worry about the bulb too much.
- All I would use the UPS for is too turn off all of my equipment ASAP and let them shut down properly and cool down.
- Right now I just have a $25 Cyberpower surge protector which supposedly cleans signal noise, etc.

I'm not looking to spend more than $50 really on this for now, but at $80 shipped the 2nd one I posted really seems like a decent deal. I will however look into if the AVR is full time. Thanks again for all of your help

Relatively inexpensively, you could add a whole-house surge protector to your electrical service box (a neighbor who does side work put one in for me for cheap) -- I haven't looked into it, yet, but rumor control has it there might even be a home owner's insurance discount for having it. What's more, you protect everything this way, instead of just your HT.

The two UPS' you linked look like good possibilities if their "automatic voltage regulation" is full time, and not just when the lights go out. I'd ask.

The high-end UPS' (which are called double, or dual, -conversion online UPS') work differently from the traditional UPS you'd find at Staples, et al. In fact, there are mega expensive audiophile components (most notably the PS Audio Premier Power Plant) that do the same thing, but with the "audio" marquee hung on it. Instead of being simply an emergency standby power supply, it is always taking the a/c power, converting it to d/c, and re-converting back to a/c before your gear gets it, thus it is regulating the power in a perfect 120v sine wave (voltage regulation). Oh, and it will also drive you DVR when the lights go out, but... They typically run well over $1k, though refurbished with new batteries, often in the upper $300s.

I have a 1000va dual-conversion UPS with all my sources and display hooked up to it (DVR, pre-amp/processor, dvd player, balanced power transformer, and a 60" plasma) and it usually hovers between a little under or a little over 50% of a full load (on the UPS). I continue to plug my amps straight into the wall. I found mine for $145 on Fleabay.

Okay, got some questions for you gurus.

The house I'm living in was built in the 50s and has all the original electric. NOTHING is grounded at all and the box has screw in fuses.

I had a few electricians come in and quote me to rewire the house; looking at probably around $2000 for everything since it's just a ranch. I'm not sure what to ask for in regards to making sure my computer room(with 2 PCs) and my soon to be crazy home theater setup is going to require to be safe(the current setup is a smallish HDTV, my receiver and speakers, and game consoles).

I've seen the discussions about whole house surge protection, UPSs, and everything but I'm not sure what I need. I want to protect my devices and also get rid of the annoying buzz(that's bad, right?) my current surge protector makes.

Can someone give me a little guidance please? Many thanks, I'm still a newb to all of this stuff.

Does anyone have any good comparative data or barring that, any preference between the Belkin PureAV 1500 and the APC J15 and S20? I'd like to buy one soon but other than cost I can't figure what the difference is. Or why the APC costs more for that matter.

"The house I'm living in was built in the 50s and has all the original electric. NOTHING is grounded at all and the box has screw in fuses."


Upgrading that AC system is probably the best thing you could do, and for 2K that's very reasonable. Since your going down the path of a complete upgrade, ask your contractor for some input on whole house protection installed at the main breaker box. I beleive BRICKWALL has some units. That way you can free up space in you equipment rack, and eliminate noise from appliances.

Hey guys, I've got a brickwall and UPS ordered... but I've got a problem.

My house is a older house with ungrounded outlets in most of the house (including the livingroom)... however the kitchen and master bedroom have been rewired to modern code with grounded outlets. The closest grounded outlet to the area where my home theater is is about 25feet. Would it be acceptable to run a heavy guage (12ga) extension cord from the bedroom to the brickwall in the livingroom to run the tv on? If the extension cord is the same guage as the wiring in the wall, I can't see how this would be a problem unless I'm missing something?

I'd consider rewiring the livingroom but we're planning on moving before the end of the year so I'd really perfer a simpler solution. The only other alternative would be leave the home theater ungrounded for the next 8 months and cross our fingers.

Hey - I have been looking through the thread for an hour or so and it's all very confusing to me as I am not very elctronics savvy......Basic question for me is this: I am about to buy the new Samsung 61 inch LED 61A750 model TV and need to buy some type of surge protection. I really do not want to spend more than $60 or so as I can barely afford the TV as it is. I saw this on Big river for about $60 but not sure if it's any good:

Monster Cable MP HTS800 Home Theater PowerCenter HTS800

I definitely want something that protect the TV as well as improves the picture if possible. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated and sorry if this has already been asked like 100 times. Feel free to send me a private message if that is better. Thanks!

Or this one as I don't have a home theater - will just be my TV, HD DVR, and a PS3/XBOX 360

Monster Cable MP AV 800 PowerCenter AV 800 with Surge Protection

I'm selling a used Monster Power HT850. Still in excellent shape...just has some dust on it is all.

Hey - I have been looking through the thread for an hour or so and it's all very confusing to me as I am not very elctronics savvy......Basic question for me is this: I am about to buy the new Samsung 61 inch LED 61A750 model TV and need to buy some type of surge protection. I really do not want to spend more than $60 or so as I can barely afford the TV as it is. I saw this on Big river for about $60 but not sure if it's any good:

Monster Cable MP HTS800 Home Theater PowerCenter HTS800

I definitely want something that protect the TV as well as improves the picture if possible. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated and sorry if this has already been asked like 100 times. Feel free to send me a private message if that is better. Thanks!

Or this one as I don't have a home theater - will just be my TV, HD DVR, and a PS3/XBOX 360

Monster Cable MP AV 800 PowerCenter AV 800 with Surge Protection


No, please respond in the forum, as I plan on doing the same thing. In fact, I will also have my receiver hooked up to the protector/supressor. Please give a recommendation for that price range, or another recommednation if there's a slightly more expensive but better one out there.

This may be a stupid question, but if the series mode surge suppressors don't shunt a surge to ground, do they need to be plugged into a 3-pronged outlet? The reason I ask is because I live in an old apartment that has the 2-pronged outlets, and I'm trying to find a way to protect my equipment that won't involve the hassle of trying to get the landlord to update the outlets. Thanks.



I emailed brickwall yesterday to ask them the question I asked above about using a 12ga extension cord on the Brickwall since my livingroom has no grounded outlets. The Here's the response I got. The answer I got was yes it would work fine on a cord... but it will also work fine on a ungrounded outlet. Here's the exact response:

Our unit will function with such a power cord though of course that is not the preferred application.

Also our units will work on ungrounded outlets since they do not dump any surge current to the ground line. We do utilize a 3 prong plug though so you will need an adapter if you have old two slot outlets.

I hope this has been of assistance and feel free to contact us with any further questions

Does anyone have a series mode surge protector schematic?
Thank you!

Does anyone have a series mode surge protector schematic?
Thank you!

Does this answer the question?

OK, I have decided on going with a surge protector/suppressor for the whole house by the fuse box. Which do I get?

Thank you, but unfortunately this isn't the full schematic.
Just a public "overview".

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the great info as usual. I just placed an order for a PW8R15AUD from brickwall for my home theatre. Thanks for everyone's input and keep up the good work.

Hi,

I've seen references to the Panamax M8HC-PRO, but when I look for that, I mostly find the Panamax M8-HT-PRO, which appears to be a successor to the former. I've found a couple of sites that still sell the M8HC-PRO, but the model no longer even appears on Panamax's own site.

Can anyone confirm if the M8-HT-PRO is indeed the successor model to the M8HC-PRO?

Thanks.

I've been trying to find out what the difference is between stage 1 thru stage 5 line conditioners...wondering if anyone could help...i glanced thru this thread and didnt see the answer

I've finally gotten through this thread (took 3 days!). Each time I thought I had my mind made up, someone came along stating there was something better. Here are my thoughts for anyone interested in hearing them (and for those who aren’t). :D

At one point I read that a whole house unit was the way to go. However in reading more (installation instructions for the whole house devices, etc.), these units all state that for any critical devices (computers and audio/video); you need to use surge suppressors at those outlets in addition to the whole house unit. :eek: This would make sense to me, as there are other sources of surges to be worried about (air conditioner, sump pump, power tools, air compressor, vacuum cleaner, blender, toaster, etc.) thus making the surge suppression device at the destination/point of use, a definite MUST in my opinion. Bottom line: You cannot just put a whole house unit in, and claim that it offers full protection on the whole house!

As for UPS, I have several from my years of computer work, so I will use a UPS, if nothing else to allow my TiVo and DVR to not abruptly shut down in the middle of a recording, and to protect my RPTV. Basically, I have several Smart-UPS units from APC, which provide the true sine wave output, so I use them.

One thing most people seem to forget is that the simulated sine waves (or whatever that particular manufacturer calls them), are only present when that unit is running on battery, not while it is running on normal AC power. Most of these units are simply passing the AC power through, “as-is” when AC power is present.

Also, if these “stepped approximation sine waves” or “simulated sine waves” were so bad for audio and video gear, then why do ALL the major companies producing A/V or HT units with battery backups in them (Belkin, APC, etc.) provide at least one unit which produce exactly that type of output while running on battery? Yes, it is cheaper and easier to do, but I think the simple reason is because it works, and does not “damage” the gear being powered. Is it optimum? No, it isn’t, but you aren’t trying to do critical watching or listening while on battery anyway, are you???? The time spent running on battery should (if possible), try to be minimized by shutting off that gear which is still being powered by battery.

What am I going to use in my house? After having read everything in this long thread, I am thinking I will get a Brick Wall PW8R15AUD and plug this into the wall outlet where my UPS is currently installed, then plug the UPS into one of the 2 unswitched outlets, and plug my subwoofer into the other unswitched outlet. I won’t plug anything into the 6 switched outlets, reserving them for any problem devices I might acquire in my quest for home theater Nirvana, but at the present time, I know all my units live together in harmony and are not interfering with each other in any way I can discern, so I will continue to power everything through the UPS. I will talk with Brick Wall, to see if a whole house unit at the breaker box would be a problem for the Brick Wall unit at the point of use. If not, then I think this combination would be optimum for surge suppression in my home.

A surge suppressor at the point of use in my opinion is a necessity, as there are sources of surges inside the house, not just coming from the outside world.

One thing most people seem to forget is that the simulated sine waves (or whatever that particular manufacturer calls them), are only present when that unit is running on battery, not while it is running on normal AC power. Most of these units are simply passing the AC power through, “as-is” when AC power is present.


Why not snap up a refurb'd double-conversion, online (full-time) type?

I've got some line noise heard in my sub when my sump pump or sometimes A/C kicks on. Would a conditioner stop this?

Yes, I believe so.

I've been looking at the Belkin PureAV PF31. Any experiences good or bad with them?

I was also wondering if any of you guys have seen the unit powered on before? If so, what color leds are on the 2 center, vertical bars? Can they be dimmed to a lower brightness?

I've finally gotten through this thread (took 3 days!). Each time I thought I had my mind made up, someone came along stating there was something better. Here are my thoughts for anyone interested in hearing them (and for those who aren’t). :D

At one point I read that a whole house unit was the way to go. However in reading more (installation instructions for the whole house devices, etc.), these units all state that for any critical devices (computers and audio/video); you need to use surge suppressors at those outlets in addition to the whole house unit. :eek: This would make sense to me, as there are other sources of surges to be worried about (air conditioner, sump pump, power tools, air compressor, vacuum cleaner, blender, toaster, etc.) thus making the surge suppression device at the destination/point of use, a definite MUST in my opinion. Bottom line: You cannot just put a whole house unit in, and claim that it offers full protection on the whole house!

As for UPS, I have several from my years of computer work, so I will use a UPS, if nothing else to allow my TiVo and DVR to not abruptly shut down in the middle of a recording, and to protect my RPTV. Basically, I have several Smart-UPS units from APC, which provide the true sine wave output, so I use them.

One thing most people seem to forget is that the simulated sine waves (or whatever that particular manufacturer calls them), are only present when that unit is running on battery, not while it is running on normal AC power. Most of these units are simply passing the AC power through, “as-is” when AC power is present.

Also, if these “stepped approximation sine waves” or “simulated sine waves” were so bad for audio and video gear, then why do ALL the major companies producing A/V or HT units with battery backups in them (Belkin, APC, etc.) provide at least one unit which produce exactly that type of output while running on battery? Yes, it is cheaper and easier to do, but I think the simple reason is because it works, and does not “damage” the gear being powered. Is it optimum? No, it isn’t, but you aren’t trying to do critical watching or listening while on battery anyway, are you???? The time spent running on battery should (if possible), try to be minimized by shutting off that gear which is still being powered by battery.

What am I going to use in my house? After having read everything in this long thread, I am thinking I will get a Brick Wall PW8R15AUD and plug this into the wall outlet where my UPS is currently installed, then plug the UPS into one of the 2 unswitched outlets, and plug my subwoofer into the other unswitched outlet. I won’t plug anything into the 6 switched outlets, reserving them for any problem devices I might acquire in my quest for home theater Nirvana, but at the present time, I know all my units live together in harmony and are not interfering with each other in any way I can discern, so I will continue to power everything through the UPS. I will talk with Brick Wall, to see if a whole house unit at the breaker box would be a problem for the Brick Wall unit at the point of use. If not, then I think this combination would be optimum for surge suppression in my home.

A surge suppressor at the point of use in my opinion is a necessity, as there are sources of surges inside the house, not just coming from the outside world.

I am going to pull a trigger on the Brick Wall PW8R15AUD, plus i alreday got the surgex for my coaxial. My idea is to use the Brick Wall first and then conect my other UPS (i actually have 2 others) on it! Now, what is the unswitched outlet different from the swithed? And, i have had the other 2 UPS for about 3 or more years, should i just get new ones? They are working fine (i think) now!
Thanks in advance!

I am going to pull a trigger on the Brick Wall PW8R15AUD, plus i alreday got the surgex for my coaxial. My idea is to use the Brick Wall first and then conect my other UPS (i actually have 2 others) on it! Now, what is the unswitched outlet different from the swithed? And, i have had the other 2 UPS for about 3 or more years, should i just get new ones? They are working fine (i think) now!
Thanks in advance!

I think you've got it pretty well covered. The only reason I use the UPS is for battery backup, not surge suppression (that's what the BrickWall is for). If your batteries are able to provide you with enough "run time", I'd say use them. If the batteries do not provide much (or any) run time, then replace either the batteries or the UPS itself.

One thing most people seem to forget is that the simulated sine waves (or whatever that particular manufacturer calls them), are only present when that unit is running on battery, not while it is running on normal AC power. Most of these units are simply passing the AC power through, “as-is” when AC power is present.


This is exactly the question I was wondering. If this is the case, I have no problem with a cheaper model, because the goal is simply to allow the lamp to cool off on my set. Maybe 1 time in years.

My biggest concern is surge protection.

But what about line conditioning? Important? I have a dimmer that I can hear making some noise on my TV, so was thinking a line conditioner of sorts may be helpful. Any thoughts?

This is exactly the question I was wondering. If this is the case, I have no problem with a cheaper model, because the goal is simply to allow the lamp to cool off on my set. Maybe 1 time in years.

My biggest concern is surge protection.

But what about line conditioning? Important? I have a dimmer that I can hear making some noise on my TV, so was thinking a line conditioner of sorts may be helpful. Any thoughts?

I am too lazy to do a "line conditioner" googling now, but i've read that there is no much needed for it in the majority of the houses/cities in the US!

I am adding a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my media room. I'm looking at the hard-wire series mode surge suppressors from Brickwall (PWP20 20 amp Panel Mount Unit) and SurgeX (SX20NE).

Is there any difference between the two, specifically to justify the $60 premium for the SurgeX?

I am surprised at how often my line conditioner kicks in. Turn on an iron, or certain other items, and it kicks in. Maybe for a couple seconds or so, or for minutes.

I am adding a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my media room. I'm looking at the hard-wire series mode surge suppressors from Brickwall (PWP20 20 amp Panel Mount Unit) and SurgeX (SX20NE).

Is there any difference between the two, specifically to justify the $60 premium for the SurgeX?

Surge Suppressors are not what you really need (though I doubt they will hurt). What you really need is a UPS that will handle 20 Amps.

What are everyone's thoughts on this:
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=PST-8D

So is this a SMP that also have a MOV for protection of coax/phone? I guess I'm not quite sure just how this product works.

From this thread, I've gathered that SMP's are get for ac filtering and protection, but do not address coax/phone surges. MOV's, while sacrificial, can provide adequate ac protection until degraded, and do protect from coax/phone line surges.

So it seems neither by itself is the ideal solution. Does this Furman power station effectively address that fallbacks of both technologies? Or is this just a gimmick that still leaves some gaps in surge protection?

Reading the specs its sounds good, but the wording is so hype-y that I am skeptical about their claims. As they say, talk is cheap, so show me the money.

They need to spell check their copy better:

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=PST-8D



What are everyone's thoughts on this:
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=02&id=PST-8D

So is this a SMP that also have a MOV for protection of coax/phone? I guess I'm not quite sure just how this product works.

From this thread, I've gathered that SMP's are get for ac filtering and protection, but do not address coax/phone surges. MOV's, while sacrificial, can provide adequate ac protection until degraded, and do protect from coax/phone line surges.

So it seems neither by itself is the ideal solution. Does this Furman power station effectively address that fallbacks of both technologies? Or is this just a gimmick that still leaves some gaps in surge protection?

I live in FL which is about the worse place on the planet to have an HT system during the summer. I have some pretty nice equipment and like many here are wondering what to do about surge protection. I am currently evaluating the Belkin PureAV Hybrid AVU1500 UPS, and the jury is out on it... It also doesn't help that my 50s house has a old FPE panel system that can't have the best power distribution.

Here is my system:

Denon 4308CI receiver
Sherbourn 7/2100 200wpc x7 amp
Custom cabinet speakers L/C/R and AR Phantom 803s for surrounds
Denon 2930 DVD
PS3 Bluray (soon to be Oppo 83 also)
DirectTv/AT&T U-verse DVR (main reason for UPS)
Sony 55" A3000 SXRD

The main consideration is obviously the amp--this is a powerful 115lb beast that actually has TWO power cords master/slave with 16 and 12 amp capacity respectively. This is a big UPS that controls up to 15a and has 2 hi-current outlets but it may not be able to handle the transient power of the amp. At first when I plugged it in, I got a nasty ground hum which went away when I redid the connections. I seem pull up to 8amps when fully going with all equipment.

The big problem is that the dynamics may be limited--currently testing this. Does anyone know if the Belkin device uses MOVs for its surge suppression? Those are supposed to severely limit the sound. Anyone have this device and/or paired it with a high-end amp to see if it is affected?

The other option is a whole-house suppressor such as this:
http://www.lightningrodparts.com/surge.html

150,000 amps suppression is a lot. I'm not sure if that would suppress the amp dynamics also...does anyone know? It's so tempting to plug the amp straight into the wall but unless I unplug every storm, that's rather dangerous.

I really hate FL summers :)

Scott,

I'll let others weigh in on the surge equipment but you need to know the FPE panel in your home is unsafe both for you and your equipment. The circuit breakers in that panel will not trip about 50% of the time even in a short circuit. Google FPE or Federal Pacfic Circuit Breakers.

I've seen these CB's burn through a pair of pliers and still not trip. If you are planning on staying in the home, I'm assuming that you own it, I would highly recomend changing out the panel and replacing it with a Square D panel. If you have a system that has grounds you will be well ahead of the game with a new panel.

Its not as big a job as it seems but it is a job for a professional.

For the last 30 some years, I always have some kind of surge protection and filter to protect my audio gear. Again, this is my own experience with my own gear YMMV and this is my belief that each brand surge protector will pretty much do its jobs but each of its own has difference effect on the audio quality: 1. BRICKWALL PW2 RAUD ( No MOV's): nice build and easy to tuck it away underneath any audio stand. 2 Panamax CoaxMax 6: well design with 2 plugs " on all the time" and ground light. 3. Monster 3600 MK II: high price but it will take up rack space. 4. Monster 1000 MK II: decent price and do not take up any rack space. My problem is each one of the four has difference effect on my audio quality: Brickwall creates some sort of thin veil on high frequency. Panamax is way bright and harsh. Monster 3600 MkII not too bright and harsh and to seems work well with my taste. Hts 1000MKII: nice touch but SQ not as good as the 3600 MK II. I have not tried the more expensive one such as Richard Gray and Shunyata but according to a friend of mine who owns a hi-end audio salon, his demo Krell Evo does not work well with the Richard Gray ( bright/ little harsh) and he settle for the expensive Shunyata. I hope this help. Is it a hype or is it not? Only you can try each one out and determine for yourself which one will degrade the sound quality of your equipments. My gear : Bryston BP26 pre/ 4 bsst amp/ Audiresearch sp16l/ Paradigm S2 v2/ Kimber Hero and 8 tc. Again, this is my own experience with my own eqipments and YMMV.

I second everything that Ironworker said about Federal Pacific Circuit Breakers and Panels.

For the last 30 some years, I always have some kind of surge protection and filter to protect my audio gear. Again, this is my own experience with my own gear YMMV and this is my belief that each brand surge protector will pretty much do its jobs but each of its own has difference effect on the audio quality: 1. BRICKWALL PW2 RAUD ( No MOV's): nice build and easy to tuck it away underneath any audio stand. 2 Panamax CoaxMax 6: well design with 2 plugs " on all the time" and ground light. 3. Monster 3600 MK II: high price but it will take up rack space. 4. Monster 1000 MK II: decent price and do not take up any rack space. My problem is each one of the four has difference effect on my audio quality: Brickwall creates some sort of thin veil on high frequency. Panamax is way bright and harsh. Monster 3600 MkII not too bright and harsh and to seems work well with my taste. Hts 1000MKII: nice touch but SQ not as good as the 3600 MK II. I have not tried the more expensive one such as Richard Gray and Shunyata but according to a friend of mine who owns a hi-end audio salon, his demo Krell Evo does not work well with the Richard Gray ( bright/ little harsh) and he settle for the expensive Shunyata. I hope this help. Is it a hype or is it not? Only you can try each one out and determine for yourself which one will degrade the sound quality of your equipments. My gear : Bryston BP26 pre/ 4 bsst amp/ Audiresearch sp16l/ Paradigm S2 v2/ Kimber Hero and 8 tc. Again, this is my own experience with my own eqipments and YMMV.

You are embarrassing.

You are embarrassing.

And you are rude.

I went through most of this thread, could not get it any clearer which tech is better.

So, I am going ahead with a dual plan. I just ordered a Zero Surge 2R15W from their site (they have a 20% off special if you call them and mention web09, valid till Aug 30) and I will plug in APC H15 or a simple MOV based surge protector in it. All the components will then go thru APC/MOV Surge protector. Could not pass up Zero Surge unit at this price.

My question to experts is - will it work this way? I am just covering all the bases.

I am adding a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my media room. I'm looking at the hard-wire series mode surge suppressors from Brickwall (PWP20 20 amp Panel Mount Unit) and SurgeX (SX20NE).

Is there any difference between the two, specifically to justify the $60 premium for the SurgeX?

ZeroSurge, BrickWall, and Torus Power are licensees of SurgeX, not the other way around, and yes, SurgeX can take a 3000A, 6000V ( 18 million Watt ) spike and, unlike the other 3 companies, stop it dead in its tracks. No voltage whatsoever leaves the box, not on the ground or on the neutral wire like the other 3 companies. The other 3 companies are using old 1990's series mode 2-wire technology. SurgeX has gone way beyond that, and the other companies cannot use the new 3-wire technology because of the SurgeX patents.

For those of you in Hawaii, the Pacific North Western/ Hawaii region ( Washington State ) and National Sales representatives for SurgeX will be in Honolulu on business from Oct 26 to Oct 28. They can clear up the confusion that exists about any technological questions and the relationship between the 3 companies as well as a Canadian company, Torus Power. You can find his name and phone number on the surgeX.com web site.

belkin pureav AP30800-10

anyone know where i can get a new battery for this ?

http://www.pureav.com/search/results.asp?search=AP30800-10&var=stemming&stemming=true&var2=num_rows&num_rows=10&var2=query.message&error_query=Go+back+and+enter+some+words+to+search+for.&RowsPerPage=10&RestartFlow=t&prod_attrib=5&catID=38