Just checked odometer at 19,520, I have the J4 model made in early 2001. I ran a service test and all came back OK. :)


Yours?

Mine is at 1800 hours. It was a refurb bought in Jan 2002. It is a JX2 Made in 2000. My TV had to have a coil replaced because of a 15.7khz squeel, and a fan got noisy which I replaced myself. The only other complaint I have is how the Fill mode stretches by 50% in the vertical direction instead of the 33% that it is supposed to. I am thinking of building a chipper check interface box to see if I can fix the problem. I just ordered the service manual on CD and it is on the way.

Captain,

How do you run a service test? I've had that RCA model for 15 months with no problems...very happy...

thanks

On top of the HDTV there are a number of buttons. Correct sequence is Info, Menu-OK and right side of volume (plus). Put your 3 fingers on these buttons at one time, if you did it right you will see a darker color of grey, in towards the middle.



Take your purple button in center of remote and with what ever color you 'chose'(Blue, Green etc) push right arrow. Hit OK button and HDTV will start doing its own diagnostic tests. One by one if alright you will see OK in caps.


Odometer reading of hours used, go back to Button to left. Odometer, 'again' choose right arrow and hit OK button. Hours used will be displayed. Get out of Service Menu at 'any' time hit clear on lower right purple button your using.


Print and USE these instructions until it becomes second nature to you. :)

Mine seems to be OK (open box from Dec 2002) with one exception. The set has developed a vertical line about 4 inches from the left side of the screen. The line is not completely straight but it is static (probably not a ground loop problem.)

It is normally only visible on a reddish background, however it is becoming very annoying. Here's hoping it is being caused by some electrical interference and not a picture tube problem. :/

I have had no problems since I bought the 2 week old floor model, off of a local dealer not a CC or BB. I would buy it all over again, for none of the Plasma, LyCOS, or L.C.D. models have my 1280 x 1080, pitch .65!


It is my contention although they are big and heavy, they make it up in performance. I can either have, my wide screen movie or my I8500 Dell Laptop if I wanted it on my HDTV, by using a Component Adapter to the component input to have a full HTPC


My laptop has a WSXVGA+ view towards a flat built in 16 X 10 L.C. D. screen on my laptop.F38310 for a crystal clear view without having to use my HDTV. :)


P.S. Edit I am taking WebTV off, for DSL is my choice.

I've had mine for almost a year I obtained mine directly from the Thompson factory I have had no problems to date.

I have done so much DVD watching in the last two years and the F38 has performed admirally. I would buy it al over again at $2999, which is what I paid for a showroom tweaked out unit. ISF calibration was performed on all of his showroom models. From all that I read at AVS a lot had problems the first day or 2 weeks from day one.


Have all of you measured your F38, I have and my diaginol is 39 inches not 38. A figure of 39" which gives me a height of 19 9/16 and width of 34.5. Is it just my F38 or does anyone else have the *in glass* configuration that my HDTV has? :)

Hey captain, please tell me more about using the PC with this set. What brand component adapter are you using and at what resolution do you have your puter set at? I am very interested in hooking my PC up to my set and would like some feed back from others who have doen this with the F38310.

By the way my set is a YX5 and was purchased in December 02 open box at CC for $1250.00 with 96 hours on the clock. It now has 5237 hours and has worked fine with the exception of an audio problem that I have yet to get fixed. One channel is out over the internal speakers and through the RCA outputs. The Optical still works so I havent messed with it for fear the RCA techs might drop the set when they pick it up. Need to get it resolved before the 1 year manufacturer warranty expires even though I have an extended CC warranty. I just dont trust CC to work on this set.

I would not recommend it with this HDTV. Here are my reasons:

Laptop has upgrade WSXVGA+ 1,680 X 1,050 which in terms of pixels 1,764,000, the LT has more than the F38310 in the 15.4 inch with a *.197* dot pitch. Contrast is 300:1 with 17.6 million colors available in the Wide Screen 16 x 10 15.4 inch diaginol L.C.D. display


F38310 has a 1,280 x 1,080 or 1,382,400 in a 20 inch high by 34.5 inch width, with a *.65* dot pitch.


IMHO the pixels are spread too far apart to get the same picture as the laptop.


For proof you can find the details on www.dell.com and www.rca.com :)

Originally posted by Captain Nemo
I have done so much DVD watching in the last two years and the F38 has performed admirally. I would buy it al over again at $2999, which is what I paid for a showroom tweaked out unit. ISF calibration was performed on all of his showroom models. From all that I read at AVS a lot had problems the first day or 2 weeks from day one.

Have all of you measured your F38, I have and my diaginol is 39 inches not 38. A figure of 39" which gives me a height of 19 9/16 and width of 34.5. Is it just my F38 or does anyone else have the *in glass* configuration that my HDTV has? :)
Never even thought of measuring my TV, but you are right, 39"!
$2000 from Sears, Thanksgiving 2001. Happiest $2000 I've ever spent. Just the Salt Lake Olympics alone was worth the purchase.
No other TV can compare with this set in PQ. Only gripe is that 38" just isn't quite big enough.
No problems at all, I must be extremely lucky.

Surprise 39 inches, most fall short but this one has a bit bigger diaginol. I agree this HDTV should be at least 50 inches and a couple of million more pixels, than the 1280 X 1080= 1,382,400 that the F38 has.


My Dell I8500 lap top has a 1680 x 1050 or 1,764,000 pixels on a 15.4 inch diaginol, 382,000 more than the F38 to be exact. To have the same amout of display I would gather it needs at least 3 times the amount shown, that would give it 46.2 inches.


3.5 times would give it the WSXVGA and 4.5 times would give it a 1920 X 1200 = 2.3 Million pixels and a dot pitch of .172 WUXVGA the best rate for computer and HD-DVD viewing IMHO. :)

All good here.

Captain Nemo,
I'm a little confused. In one post you connect a "I8500 Dell Laptop on my HDTV by using a Component Adapter ".
In another "I would not recommend it with this HDTV". I was wondering like jwheeler which component adapter etc. you were using.
Myself, I bought a "no box" YX5 at CC 30 days ago and other than a couple of "dirty fingerprints" have been extremely pleased.

Yeah i was a bit confused by your answer too Captain. You said it has a crystal clear view. If so then why dont you recomend it as an appropriate display? I understand a program called Powerstrip can do wonders with resolution problems as well.

Men I think you believe I have a HTPC, I was saying that I could have a HTPC *if* I bought a VGA/component adapter. When I found out the tiny lap top had more pixels than my F38310 in the 15.4 diaginol measure. I realized it would be better not to try it with this model, maybe a future model with a lot more pixels to lower the high dot pitch of .65 the F38 has.


I have the free upgrade of WSXVGA+ that is 1680 X 1050 or 1,764,000 pixels, dot pitch is .197! F38 is 1280 X 1080= 1,382,400 pixels and dot pitch of .65. I have put them side to side and you get a whopping clear picture with the WSXVGA, but a HDTV needing more pixels than it has to give, you can't expect the same clear view.


The maximum the Inspiron 8500 you can order is the WUGA which has 1920 X 1200= 2,300,000 pixels and a dot pitch of .172! F38310 is great for watching movies, but not so great as HTPC as you can see above. Proof www.dell.com and www.rca.com :)


P.S. I am sorry if you misread my post.:)

Captain Nemo, you aren't by chance the fellow who used to post as Hob are you?

Mark

Originally posted by mdv
Captain Nemo, you aren't by chance the fellow who used to post as Hob are you?

Mark



Mark I am sure there is more than one hob in the world. The subject is the RCA F38310 got one if so how are you doing with it? :)

I have had mine since uhm... less than a year I think... wait, no I'm sure because I have 18months to pay it or I suffer the consequences (accrued interest! LOL).

I haven't had any problem with it and I love it so far. I dunno what production model it is or something like that because the back is too close to the wall and the damn thing is heavy as heck.

Notice Captain Nemo didn't deny he is THE HOB! Hob is definitely back!

Have had mine for about 2 1/2 years and still love it. Had a friend calibrate it about a month ago and looks even better. Mostly watching HD & regular TV on it. Got a Z1 projector in February and watch all my DVD's with it on a 100" screen in the back bedroom.

Don

I know many characters on the internet, and hob is one of them. Would you like me to contact him and come back to the AVS forum? :)

Yes of course we all loved HOB! But it is obvious HOB is already here, Capt Nemo, as you well know!

I copied his style for posting he didn't provoke anyone until he was provoked. He also didn't get the full picture of 4:3. Home Theater talk was about 16 X 9. Like the movie "Primal fear" with Richard Gere, Laura Linney, John C. Mcginley, and others of the movie "Jade" and the term hysterical blindness.


Living by himself for over 18 years with no friends or anyone to talk to is hard on him. He lives in a elderly and disabled apartment building, and rarely ventures out except for food.


Not much of a life for a man who retired at age 38, now 56 and nothing has changed.
He is still crippled and his mother only has a few years to live. The guy is resourceful he will find a way to keep his HDTV, whether it's name is RCA or some other name and not 38 inches but 50 inches or a bit more. He's still thrilled to own the F38310JX4 and 4 DVD changers filled connected to the F38 by this neat 6 to 1 conversion of a device into one component.
http://www.inlineinc.com/products/matrix/3506.htm

You reveal yourself Captain, since only HOB would know all that detailed information about him! Glad to see you back under your new name!

Thumperboy hob was kicked off AVS, anyone stating he is hob, their account would be terminated. I am Captain Nemo alter ego of hob he's my best buddy, we keep in mental contact.


You know he has some problems not running on all cylinders is one, but I judge that to 18 years of seclusion for the unwanted crippled man. He has spent more time tweaking that F38 than a lot of guys, he unhooked the VSM to not have to turn down the sharpness to 0 all the time.


He must have his share of brilliance and lonliness, now he's got his own computer.
You see he must have goals he sets every day to complete. Like Hyper-threading
keeping two programs running, one stops he starts another and this goes on week after week, year after year all by himself. For him there is no holidays, weekends or vacations. His favorite saying is there is no holidays those days are simply like a sunday, a day without mail. :)

Keep on going there HOB - keep up the good fight against those darn outdated FoolScreens!

ThumperBoy Hob started that one and it's going all around the internet, Hobs contribution to Full Frame ignorance. He tried to get people to realize that when all is digital, there will be 4 sides of the hated by them black bars on 4:3 DVD.


To us there is only 2, and we turn the lights out like the 2 movies I watched in a row, on the F38310. Carrie 2: The Rage and Leviathan really make you feel your at a movie theater! 19 9/16 inches high and 34.5 inches wide in glass measurements. :)

Mine is giving me problems, though technically its not really the TVs fault. Fox owns 2 tv stations in the Chicago area, Fox and WB networks. On both of them they've decided to transmit some erroneous signal on the PSIP that causes the F31380 to immediately switch over to the associated analog channel. So no digital reception for Fox or WB in Chicago if you own one of these sets. Same goes for owners of DTC-100.

Mine is running great! One year in service today.

13,375 hours and going strong

Bought the F38 floor model from a high-end electronics store for $1800 last winter. It had a couple of scratches on the bezel but full warrenty. Oh, also it was calibrated for free!

Not only would I buy it again, but I've been trying to sell all my 'plazma hungry' friends on this most excellent TV. w00t!

I bought mine from Good Guys on April 21, 2001, for $2830. I am very happywith it and purchased the service manual from Tompson. What I now would like to learn is the procedure for doing color adjustments. The manual has absolutely no instructions on procedures. I have used this set with my HTPC using an Audio Authority VGA-Component transcoder and PowerStrip to set the resolution at 848 X 480. I have also used the Y-Pb-Pr adapter for my ATI 9700 Radeon Pro video card to see both my desktop and video playback at a resolution of 1920 X 1080i. The desktop looks much better with the Audio Authority and PowerStrip at 848 X 480. But the video playback with a MyHD card and a Fusion HD card look quite satisfactorily at 1920 X 1080i using the ATI adapter. I am also using a component-video selector I purchased from http://www.avtoolbox.com which acomodates 4 inputs and two independently-selectable outputs. As for digital audio, I am using a 4-input 1 output optical selector with remote control I purchased from http://www.mcmelectronics.com for $50 plus S&H and plus tax.

After 2 years and 3 months, I am quite happy with the RCA F38310.

Hey MF70, You are the one I need to talk too. I have been looking for someone who has been using the F38310 as a HTPC or video monitor and haven't heard back from anyone until now. Can I get more info from you on your setup and results? I am very much interested in a similar hook up. Thanks...Jeff

Hi, Jeff!
I would be very glad to help you in any way I can. But it might be easier for us to use email instead of posts on this thread. Please, make a note of my email address: mauro22@earthlink.net

I don't have a dvd player yet for my F38310.

Would you guys recommend a panasonic xp30 or would the scalable panasonic rp91 be better?

thanks,
Rick

Thanks MF70. I will e-mail you sometime this week. Thanks so much...Jeff

Rick,
I'd go for the xp30, for the better pictue. I've got a cp72 with a zoom function, that I've never seen any difference with it on or off. I do have it hooked up with svideo for using the 38310's zoom (just in case) and component for regular use.

20,199 hours on JX4 set. I ordered my set August of 2000 and received it April 6, 2001. I got caught up in the several month delay when RCA stop making the set to fix all the known problems. Price was $3,000 for set, 24 inch dish, stand, and free progressive scan RCA DVD player.

Love the set and have not had any problems other then replacing the remote.

I had a suspicion hob, er, captain nemo was back when someone started busting out those high odometer counts for the f38310...

I have one and I love it! I faked problems to get the problem diodes and caps replaced right away. After they were changed, the OTA channel changing was faster.

I am scheduled for service next week. Someone mentioned that it might be the capacitor/diode problem for my set. I just lost picture after changing channels.

I've had my F38310 since November, and no problems so far. It's a great set, and I love the picture on HD OTA broadcasts. I do have a question for the other set owners on this forum though... I'd like to set up an HT audio system using the internal speakers of the F38310 as the center front speaker. Has anyone else been able to do this? Thanks!

Don't do it. You will not get a good sound stage using those shoddy speakers for any sort of HT sound. No center speaker is better than what you'll get from those things!

Sorny

The activation date on mine is 10/09/2000 and the In Service Counter is 28,256! And I didn't think I watched much TV<g>

I have had ZERO problems with this unit. I love it. The PQ is better than any of the LCD's that I've seen recently. Can't wait to get cable HD programming setup this week at my new home.

I got this for $2k at Sears when they first came out. Great purchase decision, but it is VERY heavy. I did manage to get it up off the floor and on the factory base by myself, though!

-Mike

If any of you manufacturers out there is listening it is possible to make widescreen direct-view in a size this large and to make money--quit trying to pawn off crummy LCD, expensive plasma, dim RPTV CRT, dithering DLP, and give the people what they want--LARGE direct-view widescreen HDTV! Mighty Sony are you listening? Are you saying you can't produce such a TV but lowly Thompson can? What's that Loewe--it's impossible to produce it for that price? Toshiba--you pay lip service at the CES to direct-view and Joe six-pack--how about replicating mighty RCA? All you manufacturers out there do you think you can just MAKE us watch crummy LCD in this size? Give the people what they want...if plasma and DLP and LCD are truly that great I'm sure that eveyone will switch to them eventually, but in the meantime make large widescreen direct-view for all the people that are used to buying just a plain old regular television and when you count all the money you've made then thank me--if you make it I'll buy it and I will certainly thank you!

There is only 1 Hob thank goodness too bad it's me, I went to change my name to Catain No One which it is what nemo in latin means, but I came back as Captain Nemo. Trying yet again to be with my friends I made at AVS forum I screwed up Bionic Man usa to Bionic Manaus, David Bott forgave me yet again so It's still "Mr. Hobbs Takes a Vacation" :)



P.S. Hob's Lane a old name for the Devil in "Quatermass and the Pit".
Hob is in the name hobby take your pick fellas, I still want my Maypo and my Alice B. Toklas Brownies (marijuana, and name where 'toke' came from)

Just go back to ole' HOB!

On February 16th I will be 57 years old, that's real old, Time to put my 12 vibrators to work and give me a total massage, I'll be thinking of all of you while your at work, I haven't worked since June 9, 1985; have a nice day at work so you can buy some more DVD or HDTV godies to relax with.

Hey John, what did happen to you 20 years ago?

Road Accident driving a tractor trailer and some 89 year old jerk decided to back up in the middle lane because he issed his exit. I was driving a COE(Cab Over Engine) and since I was passing 4 children I looked into possibly pushing them off but there were large boulders and I couldn't do it. I looked in my left frisco mirror a yellow pickemup truck was passing me and we had concrete K-rails as a center divider. I couldn't kill the kids so I deliberately jack knifed the truck so the length would be across the road and only gover a few times. The Parents stayed for the Conneticut State police and told them his number, and asked if that driver was still alive please thank him for what he did to save our 4 children. The CT police told me the story 3 days after for I was in a coma, the seat belt didn't hold me and I was tossed about the truck. I lost my index finger on my left hand, I was told my left ankle was crushed and I had 6 broken ribs and a concussion which drove me into the 3 day coma. I can read it off to you like it was yesterday June 9(Sunday) 1985, the memories and the fact that at age 38 I wouldn't be working or walking ever again.



I will be 57 on February 16 th, looking forward to buying myself a s***lode of gifts to myself, that's what birthdays are for if your not given any you treat yourself. I have ordered a bottle of Champagne from the New England
states, coming down by U.P.S. just like Mr. Bond a bottle of 1995 Bollinger Champagne at $100, h*ll I am worth it and I will drink to my friends at AVS my dead wife and my keeping my toys already paid for.:)

Wow! I must say that accident sounds bad but im glad you could avoid the kids. Ya know you should post some pick of that much talked about HT of yours. And maybe one of yourself too. Happy Birthday!

I look like Logan in Logans Run or Luke when it was Luke and Laura on General Hospital, I can't put a picture of myself on the last one put on was quickly taken off. Take a look at the forum do you see anyone in their wheelchair, there is a reason for this. If you want to see a pic of a RCA F338310 do a google image search and you will see a few. Mine is by itself the best way to keep the HDTV cool, not in heat producing entertainment center. Thanks for the early birthday wish. :)

Hey Hob!

Still enjoying this gargantuan TV... thanks to your (and others') inputs when we were just newbie shoppers visiting AVSForum for the first time almost two years ago.

In retrospect you clearly pointed us in the right direction.

Thank you for that!

As you may recall we were the crazies who got the idea to house this monster (and all its associated components) on a RubberMaid Platform Truck so we could move it anywhere in the house on a PRN basis... and time has vetted that concept (except from the interior decoration stand point) :)

Still have the RP91 for playing DVDs... and just added a DMR-E100H DVD recorder we are using to convert all the VHS and home movie tapes to a (hopefully) more secure medium. Or at least one that takes up a whole lot less space to store.

Maybe someday on one of our treks thru GG or BB or Tweeter we'll see something better than your wonderful old F38310... but that certainly hasn't happened yet.

I'm guessing some day we'll end up with an FP unit due to it's inherent flexibility (any time, any size, anywhere) but that technology is a long way from cost effective or even competitive with DV right now in the areas we care about.

So, for the months of enjoyment when we might otherwise have waited for "something better", we say "thank you"... and Happy Birthday, Hob!

offsite123 Still a happy camper owning that thousands of good viewing movies, last one today was "The Day The Earth Stood Still" in the 19.5 inch high and 34.125 inch width. These are inside glass measurements of a 39 inch diaginol and thousands of DVDs later than 2001. Thanks for the birthday wish; too bad I have to drink that champagne alone as usual.

14 months of constant use and still going strong. I recently learned something new about this set. The dreaded "pincushion effect" is introduced when the internal scaler converts 480i and 480p sources into 540p for display. I had bought an iScan to create the best possible 480p from my sources, only to have the set's internal scaler introduce geometric errors. So, I'm selling the iScan on ebay and just bought a Momitsu V880 DVD player. This player is one of the rare players that will output 1080i on its component outputs. Thus, the 1080i signal is natively displayed by the F38310 without running the signal through the crappy scaler -- no more pincushion effect! on DVD.

My DirectTivo is still affected, but in a few months the HD DirectTivo will be available and it scales everything to 1080i. Then everything I display on my set will be 1080i, I'll never use the internal scaler and everything will look perfect.

tommylotto, I pm'ed you about your upcomming Momitsu.

My JX4 (purchased December 2001, with new DM1 board in June 2002) is still running fine. Odometer must have been reset with new DM1 as it starts in June with 14,500 hours.

Question, did I have my caps and diodes replaced when the DM1 was replaced? The shop said it was a remanufactured board.

11,355 hours and still running strong. Bought December 2002 at Circuit City, price paid was $1499.

2 years old and working like a champ! I have had no problems at all. I keep toying with the idea of moving it to the gameroom and buying a 50" Plasma. Then I go to the LCD/Plasma Forum and I am easily talked out of it!

My F38310 is doing fine after 3 years of heavy usage. I recently acquired a Sony SAT-HD300 to complement the built-in DTC-100, and it has revealed substantial overscan at the sides of the screen when 1080i is input to the component input of the F38310. Perhaps this is why the "edge compression" disappears with the Momitsu V880 as tommylotto describes above. It has simply been pushed off the screen into the overscan area! When the HD300 outputs 480i, the edge compression is seen as usual. This seems to validate conclusions in this forum about 2 years ago that the only way to eliminate the edge compression is to move it offscreen by increasing overscan. I don't care for this "solution" personally. Could anyone tell me if there are adjustments in the service menu that will get rid of the increased overscan on 1080i sources connected to the component input of the F38310? Thanks.

Edit: Reducing the overscan on component input to the minimum (1% at all 4 edges per Avia) still leaves a noticeable difference (for example, in the position of a logo) from what is seen via the built-in tuner. This is due to the greater edge compression on the component input rather than a difference in overscan.

Horizontal size (P:05)
Horizontal position (P:04)

Vertical size (P:11)
Veritical position (P:10 course)
Vertical position (P:13 fine)

pincushion/parabola (P:07)

Thanks very much for your help on this.

2 years old and working great! I have had no problems at all.

I think ya'll scared the "Captain" off. Let HOB rest, and welcome in Captain Nemo.

Originally posted by tommylotto
14 months of constant use and still going strong. I recently learned something new about this set. The dreaded "pincushion effect" is introduced when the internal scaler converts 480i and 480p sources into 540p for display. I had bought an iScan to create the best possible 480p from my sources, only to have the set's internal scaler introduce geometric errors. So, I'm selling the iScan on ebay and just bought a Momitsu V880 DVD player. This player is one of the rare players that will output 1080i on its component outputs. Thus, the 1080i signal is natively displayed by the F38310 without running the signal through the crappy scaler -- no more pincushion effect! on DVD.

My DirectTivo is still affected, but in a few months the HD DirectTivo will be available and it scales everything to 1080i. Then everything I display on my set will be 1080i, I'll never use the internal scaler and everything will look perfect.

Hey tommylotto...did you end up getting your DirecTV HD Tivo..and if so any problems with hooking it up to the f38310?

Originally posted by everton4
Hey tommylotto...did you end up getting your DirecTV HD Tivo..and if so any problems with hooking it up to the f38310?

I pre-ordered from Value Electronics on 1/21. It was represented that I was one of the first 350 orders and would be in their first allocation. VE accepted my money on false pretenses. I was far outside the first 350, and not even in the first three allotments. Now, other distributors are getting limited quantities and people who ordered elsewhere in April or May are getting theirs before my order is filled. VE lied (at least to me), but if you say that over at the Tivo Community thread, you would be hounded by the fanboys.

The latest disinformation spread by VE is that my order should be filled next week. We will see...

I was interested in the over-scan comment on my perceived correction to the barrel roll effect. I have not notice any over-scan problem, but I have not been looking for it. This weekend I'll do a test with my Avia DVD to see if he is right. Even if he is, the over-scan is not really noticeable and better than the barrel roll effect. But, of course, I want to know what I am sacrificing.

If you really want to be anal, I heard of one guy who sent all his signals into an HTPC and compressed the image. Then he went into the service menu and stretched the picture until the distortion was off the screen. The compression and stretching canceled each other leaving a normal picture without barrel roll.

tommylotto, please respond back to this thread and let us know what happens. Very interested in how this turns out. Thanks...Jeff

Anyone with the F38310 have Voom? If so how do you like and how are you sorting out multiple connections?

Is there a separate set of adjustable parameters for the component (and other) inputs? I have always entered the service menu by pressing TV-DirecTV and Ch. down simultaneously. The overscan adjustments made there only affect the set's internal tuners. I have adjusted down close to zero overscan there, but the various inputs (per Avia) have about 2% at top & bottom, and 3% at each side. This didn't really bother me until I got a Sony SAT-HD300. I miss the inch of material at each side that vanishes into the overscan area when I view HD material on the Sony. Could anyone advise me how to access and change the parameters that affect the component and other inputs? Thanks.

All inputs are independant (component, Vid1,2 FRNT, S-video)... even the antnenna inputs.

You must have the TV displaying/set to the input you want to adjust BEFORE you enter 'service mode'.

After adjustments are made, you MUST exit 'service mode' to save those settings for that particular input.

Then you can switch to the next input, enter service mode, adjust and exit.

Thanks again for the help, Ratman. After a few misfires I managed to get the component input down to about 1% overscan. For some reason it won't display quite as much as the built-in DTC-100, but it will be fine. When I changed to the video inputs, I was unable to get "P" off zero, but strangely, the changes I made to component seem to have changed Video 1,2,& 3 as well, so their overscan is now around 1% as well. I am now encouraged to order a Zenith DVB318 upconverting DVD player to see if this reduces or eliminates the edge compression as tommylotto describes above. Thanks again.

I have not been able to check the overscan on the Momitsu with Avia yet. When you reduced the overscan on the service menu, did you get edge compression on 1080i from your Sony receiver?

P.S. The Zenith looks perfect and the price is nice, but just make sure that it will output 1080i through the component output for Macrovision protected disks. The Momitsu has a secret menu that enable regions and macrovision protection to be disabled.

I bought my F39310 on April 21, 2001 and it worked fine until last Sunday, May 23, 2004. For 3 years, 1 month, and 2 days I had my fun. Last Sunday, we watched until 6 PM, turned it off, had dinner, and returned to it at 8 PM. Turned it on, or tried to, but not even the fan started! Luckly for me, I purchased an extended warranty service for 5 years, and the teck is coming over tomorrow to fix it. The outlet is OK, the AC cord is OK, for I measure 117 volts AC on the female side of the power cord. It is the set that just won't allow those electrons to flow through it. Could be an internal fuse!

Anyone running Voom on their sets?

tommylotto, there is a small degree of edge compression now at 1080i from the HD300, but you have to be looking for it. It's about the same as I have had with the built-in DTC-100 since I cut the overscan to near zero. When I first took delivery of my F38310 3 years ago, I think the factory-set overscan on the DTC-100 was around 2%, and I could not detect any edge compression on 1080i material. I left it that way for a long time.

As for the DVB318, evidently units delivered so far have been OK, but I see in the long thread that many are afraid that LG/Zenith will disable 1080i for protected material via component at some point. Think I'll get one at the nice price offered at gochnauers.com, and if it doesn't work out it will be a nice gift for my niece who just got a new Sanyo TV with HDMI.

Finally got the HD-TIVO. (bought from Costa Mesa Magnolia/BB Store -- will cancel Value Electronics Pre-Order) I have not been able to compare the PQ of the HD Tivo and the internal tuner with any good quality HD yet, but there is definetly more overscan on the 1080i Component input. The HDNet logo is right along the bottom edge of the screen. I guess, I'm going to have to get into that service menu. Are the settings listed by Ratman a good compromise between overscan and edge compresssion or will I need to experiment?

Be cautious and experiment... all TV's are different.

Just be sure write down the P:x and V:x values BEFORE you make any change.

It's been three years with my set and I still occasionally 'nudge' a value.

Do any of the 38310 owners think any other companies will ever try to produce a 38-inch 16:9 CRT? How much difference does the 4 additional inches make for your viewing pleasure?

I wanted to have my viewing distance at the optimal (for widescreen 1080i) 3.2X picture height (or 1.57X diagonal). This puts me about 5' from my 38" display, which worked out ideally for my room dimensions and speaker placements. With a 34" display, my viewing distance would be a less than ideal 53.3". FWIW, at 1.57 X widescreen diagonal you experience a viewing angle width of 31 degrees which gives a nice sense of involvement.

MF70,
Did the tech fix your set?
Did you ever have the capacitors replaced?

Originally posted by locomo
MF70,
Did the tech fix your set?
Did you ever have the capacitors replaced?

The tech came over yesterday, 26 May, and replaced a module on the right side of the box. Tha did NOT fix the problem, and he said that the next step was to take the set into the shop for the replacement of various parts. That work could not be completed at my house because it takes longer than the limit of 20 minutes his company allows. I asked when I can expect the set back, and he said that would be about one week. I was not aware of any capacitor problems, but would appeciate hearing about it right now. Ny 5-year extended warranty runs until May 21, 2006, and I hope to have all the fixes in before then. Thanks, locomo, for bringing this to my attention.

As mentioned above, the minimum overscan I was able to achieve on the component input (per Avia) was 1% at all 4 edges. Here are the changes I made to get there: (P=parameter) P-04 (horiz. position) 38 - no change - was exactly centered). P-05 (width) - changed from 39 to 22 to get minimum width. P-10 (vert. position - coarse) changed from 4 to 3 for exact centering. P-11 (vert. size) changed from 37 to 34 for minimum height.
P-13 (vert. position - fine) unchanged at 38. BTW, with my overscan now at 1% on component input, Avia shows considerable edge compression on the circle hatch pattern and a 480i DVD player. My Zenith DVB318 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Will recheck Avia with the 1080i upconvert and report back on this thread if there's any improvement in edge compression.

MF70,
I had my caps changed out before they "went bad all the way".
It's possible that once they go, they can take out other things like some diodes.
Ratman and others here, know a whole lot more about this stuff than myself.
UncD2000,
I think that more than just a few of us are real interested on your findings on the Zenith 318.

locomo, the DVB318 hasn't arrived yet, but I don't believe at this point that it will affect the edge compression issue. I was looking back on a letter I wrote to Thomson Multimedia Inc. 3 years ago, and my conclusion then was that the two stretch modes ("full" and "fill") are the source of the edge compression. Since selecting the component input automatically engages the "full" mode, that input will always be affected by edge compression. Thus, by reducing the overscan on that input to the minimum, I probably made the situation worse, but that's a tradeoff I can live with as my first priority is to view as much of the image as possible. When the DTC-100 tuner receives a 1080i signal, it locks into "16:9 mode" and displays this fact. There is virtually no edge compression in "16:9 mode." Nor is there any in the "normal" viewing mode for 480i material. It's only when the "full" or "fill" stretch modes are engaged that this non-linear expansion occurs. I will return shortly and edit my posts above to remove some erroneous and misleading conclusions.

UncD2000

You might be interested in reading the thread at hdtvoice.com


> RCA - ProScan HDTV Sets > A real HD television


Starting at thread #17, Ratman and I discussed this same issue on the overscan.

My unit is a JX5 manufactured in 02/2002 and purchased from CC in 12/2002. I figure that this was an open box that was repaired by CC as the caps have been replaced. So far to date the unit has been working like a champ with 13,000 plus hours.

Thanks for the reference to the interesting discussion. I'll report back on what the DVB318 does, but I won't be surprised if the edge compression persists. I still believe RCA could have solved the problem years ago with a replacement for the circuit board that controls the "full" and "fill" stretch mode function (or perhaps even with a firmware "fix" via satellite download for D* subscribers), but they had just done a costly recall on the F38310 in late 2000 to fix another problem, so they "cheaped out" on the edge compression issue, and finally discontinued the F38310 rather than commit more money to correcting its faults.

Their "solution" of moving the compression offscreen is unacceptable. I realize that 5% overscan at the 4 edges is not unusual on TV displays, but that is a loss of 19% of the image (0.9 horiz X 0.9 vert = 0.81). There is much anguish in this forum about HBO-HD panning/scanning 2.35 movies to fill the 16:9 screen (which discards 24% of the image), but relatively little mentioned about image loss to overscan. I'm going to continue with my overscan at the minimum on all sources. A little edge compression here and there is by far the lesser of the evils.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by locomo
[B]MF70,
I had my caps changed out before they "went bad all the way".
It's possible that once they go, they can take out other things like some diodes.

Thanks for the info, locomo! My set was taken to the shop last Wednesday, May 26; yesterday, I got a call from the shop and was told that the set will be delivered back to me next Wednesday, June 3. I could call them and ask about replacement of the caps, but would like to now exactly what caps these are. Can anybody tell me that? I don't know whether the office guy at the shop would know what I am talking about. Thanks!

I believe the caps are C14113/14115 ... and if the diodes are bad CR14107/14117

The chassis # for the F38310 is DTV306

Ask them to check Thomson's service bulletins for the proper capacitor values. Do not replace with the 'same' type of caps or the problem will reoccur!
(I dont' remember off hand.. I'll snoop around and see if I can find the recommended upgrade values).

Sorry to report that the DVB318 does not eliminate edge compression with the 1080i upconvert into the component input. Nice player for $160 though. I may get another for a gift. I'm back to my original theory that the "full" & "fill" stretch modes cause the edge compression. The "16:9" and "Normal" modes do not. Since the component input locks into "full" mode, increasing the overscan on that input is about the only "solution."

I just got my set back last Monday after it had been down since April 23. It has been plagued by power supply problems the 2-1/2 years I have owned it and on two separate occasions wires had to be resoldered to the yoke connection. I even had the DM-1 module replaced which turned out to not be necessary. I am having my set calibrated by a local ISF technician this coming Friday, June 4. Since getting the set back I have noticed that the focus is out of whack ever so slightly. Plus I want to get the gray scale set properly and see what this baby is capable of producing picturewise. I’m also curious to see what kind of geometric changes he will make, if any. I don’t plan on upgrading to DLP for at least another 18 months so I think it’s worth it. I will post the results of the calibration.

I have had my f38310 for about three years now. Never any problems! OTA local channel HDTV picture quality is awesome.

The one problem I have is hooking this set up to a HTPC. I have used a KDS VGA to component conveter on an AVI 9800 Pro graphics card to try to "clone" the display to the RCA. I have tried endless configurations using Powerstrip, but to no avail. Some say you should use a VGA to Component dongle and not use a transcoder. Has anyone been able to successfully hook this set up to an HTPC? Your help would be greatly appreciated!

UncD2000,
I know you like to see the "whole picture" but does the Zenith 318's zoom help get rid of the edge compression?
thanks
lo

OK, my F38310 has started to act up after a little over a year of service. It will not power up via the remote or the power button. You have to unplug/plug it in order to power it on. Before this, it also would lock up occasionally when changing between OTA HD channels. Before I call the Circuit City service people, I was wondering if anyone could refresh me on what I should tell them. Thanks in advance.

Brian

Originally posted by Ratman
I believe the caps are C14113/14115 ... and if the diodes are bad CR14107/14117

The chassis # for the F38310 is DTV306

Ask them to check Thomson's service bulletins for the proper capacitor values. Do not replace with the 'same' type of caps or the problem will reoccur!
(I dont' remember off hand.. I'll snoop around and see if I can find the recommended upgrade values).

Thanks, Ratman! I appreciate the info and will tell the service org when they reopen tomorrow.

Originally posted by hothandiman
I have had my f38310 for about three years now. Never any problems! OTA local channel HDTV picture quality is awesome.

The one problem I have is hooking this set up to a HTPC. I have used a KDS VGA to component conveter on an AVI 9800 Pro graphics card to try to "clone" the display to the RCA. I have tried endless configurations using Powerstrip, but to no avail. Some say you should use a VGA to Component dongle and not use a transcoder. Has anyone been able to successfully hook this set up to an HTPC? Your help would be greatly appreciated!

I have an ATI Radeon 9700 PRO in my PC and use an ATI HD congle to connect to the RCA F38310. At 480p the Windows desktop is very good, but at 1080i it is really bad. However, HD video can be appreciated very well at 1920 X 1080i. I use this resolution to watch WMV demo files as well as the 2 WMV dvd's that I have of Coral Reef and Terminator II. I also have a MyHD tuner card in the PC and use it through its own dongle to watch transport streams, regular dvd's, D-VHS tapes, MPEG streams, etc. In case you are not familiar with the MyHD card, it can be configured to deliver either RGB or YPbPr directly to an HD monitor. Good luck to you!

Originally posted by MF70
I have an ATI Radeon 9700 PRO in my PC and use an ATI HD congle to connect to the RCA F38310. At 480p the Windows desktop is very good, but at 1080i it is really bad. However, HD video can be appreciated very well at 1920 X 1080i. I use this resolution to watch WMV demo files as well as the 2 WMV dvd's that I have of Coral Reef and Terminator II. I also have a MyHD tuner card in the PC and use it through its own dongle to watch transport streams, regular dvd's, D-VHS tapes, MPEG streams, etc. In case you are not familiar with the MyHD card, it can be configured to deliver either RGB or YPbPr directly to an HD monitor. Good luck to you!

Thanks for the reply! MF70 :) I am assuming you are using Powerstrip? If so what settings? I just ordered "the purple dongle" from ATI. I understand that it comes with software to make it work. I wonder if this is its own custom resolution software?:confused:

Thnaks Again

elspankdog,
I wonder how many times I've asked (to no one in particular)
Did you ever have the "cap fix"?
It's usually the number one question.

Originally posted by locomo
UncD2000,
I know you like to see the "whole picture" but does the Zenith 318's zoom help get rid of the edge compression?
thanks
lo I haven't tried this, but zooming in a bit at the horizontal edges should move the compressed area offscreen in the same way that increasing overscan via the (05) Width parameter in the service menu does. FWIW, it's possible that the function of parameter (05) is defective (non-linear), and that it is responsible for the edge compression (rather than the horizontal stretch of the "full" and "fill" modes).

Someone posted an RCA service bulletin at Home Theater Spot a while back that instructed techs to set overscan at 5% at each edge on the component input. This amount, or even more, is probably pretty typical of most displays as delivered to the consumer. At such settings, the stretch modes on the F38310 probably deliver a total image, including the part that is offscreen, with prettty decent geometry. The edge compression seems to be introduced when the width parameter is decreased to reduce overscan. Instead of a linear compression of width, the center of the image is left alone, and the new material coming in from overscan is squeezed into the outer 4-6 inches on each side (sort of an inverse of a "panorama" stretch mode. Since most F38310s were apparently delivered with less than average overscan, the edge compression became a major complaint issue.

When my F38310 was delivered 3 years ago, edge compression was very noticeable in "full" and "fill" modes, but I could not detect any at all in 16:9 mode. With my overscan now reduced to the minimum, I noticed this morning on the HDNet test pattern that I have some measurable edge compression. Then I ran the Avia disc at 1080i on the DVB318, and the edge compression at the right was about the same as HDNet (minimal but measurable), but at the left there was somewhat more (borderline annoying).

I'm not discerning enough visually to offer an opinion on the merits of the DVB318, but some respected professionals on this and other forums are pretty impressed with it. "Michael TLV" on Home Theater Spot, however, recommended that the component output be used, since he found "white crush" and some other problems on the DVI output. I would add a recommendation not to engage "autostart" in the setup menu (it skips past FBI warnings, mandatory previews, and the opening menu) because it repeatedly locked up my player with the Avia disc, and when this happens you have to unplug the unit for a short period to get it operating again.

The most dramatic improvement I've made recently with the F38310 was decreasing my viewing distance from the SMPTE-recommended 60" (1.57 X diagonal - 30 degree width of view) to the THX-recommended 50" (1.33 X diagonal - 36 degree width).

Here's a link to a Viewing Distance Calculator
www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

Note: the SMPTE recommendation corresponds to the normal human optical cone of vision's optimal radius of about 15 degrees. The extra image width that THX recommends is thus about 3 degrees beyond this on each side, but it results in a "more immersive experience" which is quite satisfying (at least until the novelty wears off).

Originally posted by hothandiman
Thanks for the reply! MF70 :) I am assuming you are using Powerstrip? If so what settings? I just ordered "the purple dongle" from ATI. I understand that it comes with software to make it work. I wonder if this is its own custom resolution software?:confused:

Thnaks Again

Hi again! I don't use Powerstrip because it is not needed with the ATI HD dongle. However, only 2 resolutions are available: 480p and 1080i. Since these are compatible with the F38210, I never bothered with Poswerstrip. The dongle I got from ATI did not come with any software because it is supported by the driver. The dongle is recognized by the driver and it is automatically activated. Perhaps the dongle for your Radeon 9800 includes additional software but I do not know that. Again, good luck to you and let me know how it works out for you.

Originally posted by locomo
elspankdog,
I wonder how many times I've asked (to no one in particular)
Did you ever have the "cap fix"?
It's usually the number one question.

No, I've never had any work done on the set. To be honest, I don't use the set that much anymore since I moved it to the bedroom. It has been a while since I read about all the F38310 problems, and I just wanted to be able to help the repair guy as much as I could. Thanks for the input.

See if this helps:

F38310 and Powerstrip:

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=984&sid=526a27d1dd04df17b98e91cf1b34bfa3

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=986

Originally posted by tpgaffney
See if this helps:

F38310 and Powerstrip:

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=984&sid=526a27d1dd04df17b98e91cf1b34bfa3

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=986

Thanks tp, but alas I tried those settings. I am guessing the reason it did not work for me is that we were using different brands of transcoders. That could be the reason, right? I do not know if anyone has calculated the mathematical possibilities of ps settings, but boy, I know I approached something close to that number!

:p

I was only able to get 640 x 480 "stable" on my screen. Other attempts either did not work, or resulted in a scrolling desk top, or just the "dell" desk top--no icons or anything. I ordered the purple dongle from ATI; I understand that that you get 640 x 480 and 1920 x 1080i (only) with this device. If that works, I'll be happy. Lower res for the icons, and 1080i for video/graphics. I must admit when I approached this project, I never really thought that the monitor would be much of an issue. In doing my homework here, it seems like it is almost a rite of passage to figure this out! :p

Anyway, thanks for the help to everyone. This is an awesome site!

UncD2000

I checked out what you previously stated about component video locking into full on my own unit. When watching a SD signal thru antenna A, the menu says 4:3. When watching a HD signal thru antenna A, the menu says 16:9 and looks great with no compression. When inputing a 480i signal thru the component video inputs, the menu says 4:3 and one can use the stretch modes as usual. When inputing a 480p signal thru the component video inputs, the menu does not say anything as to the mode you are in. I am guessing this is what you are referring to as locked into the full position. I would have thought that the menu would have at least told you what mode you are in.

If this be the case as you have referred to, what is the possiblity to someone in this forum creating a hack to the firmware that would allow the component video input to work just like the antenna inputs, putting a 480p signal or greater into the 16:9 mode? There have been other people creating hacks on the various DVD players out there, so maybe it could be done on the F38310. I believe that I have read in other forums about a company adding adding a video out to the F38310. I know that this might cause other issues, but it is just a thought.

Well... IMO, this is finally a plausible theory in regard to "barrel roll"!

Based on Unc2000's earlier post and radicon's observation, I just performed all of the 'tests' on mine and can confirm that that's exactly what heppens!

When watching a DVD set to progressive, no format info.
Switched to interlaced, it displayed 4:3 nomal
Hit the "FF" button, it shows 4:3 Fill or Full.
Back to progressive.... no info.

I can rest easy now! Thanks guys, good work!

radicon:
No hacks for the F38310 that I am aware. As for the video output mod, check www.169time.com for info (it is a llitlle expensive IMO).

Ah!!! One more thought!!!!

If anyone following these posts with an F38310 and an upscaling DVD players... (that works over component)

Could you output a 1080i signal via component cables and see if the "INFO" menus show 16:9, nothing... or whatever?
Also... try the same with an STB set to output 480p...

I'm curious...

My F38310 went to the shop for the second time since I first got in on floor display. The first time was the DM module, the second time a burnt electronics smell came from the inside. Something in the power supply, don't know exactly what they replaced (I didn't get any summary on what was fixed).

UncD2000

Do you have any other observations using the Zenith DVB318 DVD player on the F38310? How does the PQ compare to your other DVd players? Did you have to turn down the contrast and tint as others have stated on their HDTV's?

Does anyone here on this thread know of anyone that has the tools and knowlege on working with embedded firmware? I have talked with the person that did my ISF calibration. He knows of several people that do this, but they do not have this HDTV. Also, they would not be cheap.

Another approach would be to get in touch with someone at Thompson that is actually familiar with this HDTV and see if our firmware hack idea stated above is even remotely possible. Anyone with an idea or suggestion?

The DVB318 does run a bit bright. Probably 2 clicks on black level(brightness) below my Sony SAT-HD300. (These 2 units are connected to component via the switcher in a Yamaha receiver). Usually, when I engage the component input, there is no indication of the mode in the display, but occasionally it will display "4:3 Full". All input signals have been 1080i. I believe it's in Full mode all the time, so I can't account for this anomaly in the display. I'll try inputting 480P tomorrow, and see if anything is displayed.

The DVB318 looks impressive with good quality DVDs upconverted to 1080i, but a recent set from the public library (Homicide, Life on the Street - Season 1 & 2) looked awful, so I gave it a try on my 5-yr-old Toshiba SD-3109 (a 480i model connected to S-video). Looked better and also enabled "4:3 Normal" for OAR viewing. HLOTS didn't fare well with the mandatory Full mode via component.

I agree that we could really use some input from someone at Thomson. With my overscan at the minimum on all inputs, I can detect some edge compression on everything, but it varies from barely noticeable in 16:9 mode to pretty obvious from the NTSC tuner. The D* SD channels fall about halfway between these extremes. Another anomaly that we need help with is the 50% vertical overstretch in Fill mode (which oddly doesn't occur with the DirecTV tuner).

Originally posted by Ratman

If anyone following these posts with an F38310 and an upscaling DVD players... (that works over component)
Could you output a 1080i signal via component cables and see if the "INFO" menus show 16:9, nothing... or whatever?

I have the Momitsu outputing 1080i. Info shows nothing.

Originally posted by Ratman

Also... try the same with an STB set to output 480p...

I'm curious...

I set the HDTivo to 480p. Info shows nothing.

I'm not sure what this proves though. All formats except 480i are locked and the aspect ratio cannot be changed. We knew that. How does this explain the barrel roll??? (Which I see with both 480i and 480p, but not 1080i)

I was hoping that a device outputting a native 16:9 would be detected as such and perhaps cause the component inputs to 'react' differently. (to reinforce the reason why 1080i doesn't exhibit the barrel roll effect).

I was hoping that the component inputs would work similarly to the tuner when detecting a 16:9 format (showing 16:9 in the info banner).

Thanks for your efforts!

I finally got into the service menu and reduced the overscan as much as possible. I have not detected any barrel roll effect from either my DVD player at 1080i or my HD Tivo at 1080i. Both look real good. However, the changes that I made in the service menu on the component input seem to have changed the S-Video input where I have my laptop/music server connected. I thought all the inputs were adjusted independently.

That's the way I understand it to work... and what I've observed with my endevours.

Have you tried moving to the other S-Video input and see if there's a difference?

Have the mods you made affected other inputs (antenna, analog/digital, satellite)?

I've posted my thoughts on this topic on another thread, but I'll reitterate and expand with a few more observations:

1) I'm fairly sure that the reason the info screen says it is 16x9 or 4x3 from the ATSC tuner and Satellite tuners is because this information is provided in the header information piggybacked on the signal (question: does the info bar say what format the video is in for NSTC?). I don't think there are seperate 16x9 viewing modes for Sat/ATSC/component. Because component video is analog, it doesn't have this header information, and so the info screen doesn't tell you. I asked a TV station engineer, and he agreed he thinks the format information is coming from the recveiver.

2) There may be a difference in video over the component because of the way the set "translates" the video to broadband RGB. Basically, the set has to convert the ATSC/DirecTV/component video to seperate signals for each of the three electron guns. Perhaps the translation algorithm isn't as good for component video as for ATSC/DirecTV HD. I don't think that this is the real problem, though. I think, that you do see barrel roll on all HD -- just not as much. I think the real problem lies next:

3) Under "geometry alignment" in the service manual, it says "the geometry alignments on this chasis are very critical and must be performed using chippercheck. Even though some of the geometry alignments are available through the front panel service menu, adjustment is not recommended. Alignment in one modewill interact and affect the displays of other modes."

I believe they are referring to the deflection modes, which are 1080i, 480p, and 540p. (note, I think the service manual has a typo here, where it lists the modes 4, 14, and 15 as having 1080, 483, and 483 vertical lines each. I believe that the first and second modes are correct, being 1080i and 480p respectively, while the third mode with the same frequencies as the first should really be 540 vertical lines.

Basically, you set the geometry in mode 4, but use mode 15 for watching s-video (or mode 14 for watching DVD), which leads to different results.

When I had my set ISF calibrated, he optimized the settings for 1080i, then went to each of the other modes and tweaked it to make them more acceptible.

I wonder if this isn't the problem -- if you minimize barrel roll via geometry alignments for 1080i, then they may be exacerbated for 480p -- which is what most DVD players use. If you minimize barrel roll for 480p, then HD would probably be bad.

It would be interesting for someone who has minimized barrel roll for 1080i but has the problem with 480p, to then try upconverting the output to 1080i and seeing if it goes away.


Joe

Since I have had my F38310 ISF calibrated and tweaked with ChipperCheck in April, the barrel roll effect has been neglible. DVD viewing at 480p does not drive me nuts like it use to. If I recall correctly, the instructions for ChipperCheck specifically states that you must make the geometry corrections first for the component video inputs then the other inputs.

What I need to do now is purchase the Zenith DVB318 upconverting DVD player and see how it looks at 1080i on my tweaked F38310.

I will try to get in contact with the person who did my ISF calibration and see if he has time to comment on this thread.

DrJoe and Ratman. THANKS to both of you for all of your obvservations and assistance on the F38310 on this and the various other forums.

Rodney

I am in Plano and I would be interested in your ISF guy's info Radicon. Did you see an appreciable increase in PQ after he was finished?

If nothing else you should talk to "Cheezmo", Steve Martin (not the actor) who is based out of Plano. I talked to him when I was living in Austin; I ended up getting a calibration by Siegfried Riedel out of Bjorn's in San Antonio. Steve has a very good rep.

Steve Martin's ISF Page: http://www.smartcalibration.com/
Siegfried Riedel's ISF Page: http://www.isfcalibration.com/


Joe

Cool. Thanks DrJoe

jwheeler

His name is Topp Robertson out of Grapevine. Check out his website at http://www.idigscience.com.

jwheeler

The PQ is much better, mainly the geometry. With ChipperCheck, Topp was able to reduce the 'barrel roll' effect to a manageable level. As I have stated before, no one ever mentioned this except for me. It drove me nuts trying to watch a DVD through a fish eye lense (so to speak). HDTV over OTA was great. I just could not figure out why there was so much difference. Having the unit calibrated made all the difference.

As well as geometry, the grayscale was off on all inputs. Topp was able to get the grayscale to almost a perfect flat 6500k line at all IRE from 10 IRE to 100IRE. As far as I am concerned, the PQ on my unit is looking the best it ever has. Now to get that Zenith DVB318 DVD player!!

I havent done any reading about this DVB318. What is so great about it and how does it compare with the other units such as the momitsu or others that do this up convert thing?

There is a huge thread on this DVD player. It is currently 156 pages and growing! Check it out at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328403&pagenumber=1

Or you can check out the FAQ thread at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400480

it appears to be a good DVD player for the F38310. The only F38310 person to date that is using one is UncD2000 that has made several posts about the 318 on this thread.

I've never had any problem in the years I have owned the F38310.

After several months of debating and considering the WAF, I upgraded my digital cable box to a HDTV / DVR cable box. The new cable box hooks ups through the component video inputs so I am using my Onkyo NR900 receiver to do the component video switching between the HDTV cable and DVD player.

After watching for several days, IMHO, the PQ on the HDTV on the component video and the HDTV on OTA from antenna A looks identical. I know that there is some edge compression with a 1080i signal on the component video inputs from the ISF calibration done on my unit a couple of months ago, but I have not been able to see it. HDTV on the component video inputs simply looks great!

Now to the problem! The F38310 does not synch up properly when switching the signal input on the component video inputs from 1080i-to-480p-to-1080i. The F38310 had no problems switching from 1080i(HDTV channel on cable) to 480p(DVD player). The F38310 would go blank for a split second, you could hear the click as the tv re-synched, and then the 480p video signal appeared correctly. When switching from 480p(DVD player) to 1080i(HDTV channel on cable), the F38310 video signal was out of synch with mulitcolored swiggly lines. The F38310 would then go blank of a split second, you could hear the click as the tv tryed to re-snch but the video signal would stay the same. IF you left the F38310 alone, after 2 to 3 minutes the video would go blank, click as it re-synch and the video would return correctly. OR if after you switched back to 1080i(HDTV channel on cable) you immediately changed the cable channel to a SD channel, the F38310 would properly re-synch. Then you could change the channel back to a HDTV channel with no problems. Switching from 480i(SD channel on cable) to 480p(DVD player) back to 480i(SD channel on cable) caused no synching problems at all.

I first thought that it may be a problem with the receiver since it was doing the actual component video input switching. I talked with Onkyo/ Integra customer support. They told me that the NR900 receiver does not do any processing of the component video inputs, it just switches the inputs and passed the signal through. They said that the problem had to be with the F38310 itself. They had seen these same synching problems with the plazma tvs that Integra built. They said that some HDTV's have an auto-synch button. You could use that to correct the synch problem, but the F38310 does not have this as a button or menu option that I am aware of.

Recap;

480i-to-480p-to-480i no problems
1080i-to-480p no problems
480p-to-1080i will not synch

DrJoe or Ratman, do you guys have any suggestions. With these upscaling DVD players coming to the market and HDTV DVD players coming someday, this 1080i re-synching might become an issue.

I had similar problems switching between the component input 480p and ATSC on the antenna...

Check out:

Old Home Theaterspot thread (http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB54&Number=258768&Forum=,,,f54,,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=100&Main=258714&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=14084&daterange=1&newerval=5&newertype=y&olderval=%20&oldertype=w&bodyprev=#Post258768)

Second Home Theaterspot thread (http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB54&Number=209458&Forum=,,,f54,,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit=100&Main=209454&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=14084&daterange=1&newerval=5&newertype=y&olderval=%20&oldertype=w&bodyprev=#Post209458)

Basically, I had problems when switching from 480p or 1080i on the component input to an ATSC channel on the antenna. The video inputs locked.

I never had problems switching between 1080i (HD cable), 480p (DVD) and 480i (DVD, DVD2). I used (use) a manual switch, JVC JX-S111 Component Video Switch. I am no longer using HD cable, and don't have an antenna up for OTA. (And I don't have a functional set at this time.)

As you say, the screen goes squiggly and then resynchs.

Do you have any other switch you can try, to make sure there isn't something in the receiver? If you have an old composite video switch, (left/right audio + video), try it. Maybe it is the cables?

If worst comes to worst, you can call RCA, and ask the to diagnose the problem for you over the phone.

Joe

I doubt it is the receiver. I get the same multicolored lines with my Yamaha receiver switching between two 1080i sources (Zenith DVB318 & Sony SAT-HD300), or connecting them manually to component. There is no "click," but in a second or two the F38310 gets things in synch. At one point a couple of years ago, I had the same receiver switching 480i and a 480P DVD players, and I always got instant synch and no multicolored lines.

I'm not a fan of extended warranties, but I just forked over $325 to CC for another 3 years in consideration of all the problems these sets seem to develop. The F38310 is ideal for my personal use at this point, but if it becomes unrepairable in the next 3 years, it will be nice to have some leverage at CC toward getting an acceptable replacement.

I get the "sync problem" as well, but only for a few seconds, then every thing is fine. I have the HD Tivo which can change its output from 480i to 1080i. I do this often, because there is no composite output when set to 1080i and I distribute this signal to several other TV's in the front of my house. For normal viewing (SD) I output 480i to all sets. For serious TV watching, I switch to 1080i, but then the other SD sets go black. Every time I switch to 1080i, I get the sync problem, but not when going back to 480i. I get the sync problem when switching to DVD at 1080i as well. I don't really see it as a problem, because it only lasts a few seconds. I would get concerned, however, if it lasted any longer.

DrJoe
I tryed to duplicate the problem you were having switching between inputs on the F38310 from 480i to 1080i on OTA antenna B to 480p from component video. I did not have any problems with the unit locking up or not able to re-snyc. The unit worked just fine.

I do not have any other way to manually switch the component video inputs other than the receiver. As UncD2000 stated, I doubt if the receiver it causing the problem. I will try to find a cheap manual switch on Saturday as you suggested. This would verify if the receiver was the problem or not.

I do not believe the cables are a problem either as they are new. My ISF tech just happened to be free the same day I got the HDTV/DVR cable box and he came out and custom made me new component video cables with Beldon 1694A cable and Canare RCA plugs.

I am glad to see that tommylotto has not had any problems switching from 1080i to 1080i. I was concerned that this may be a problem, but thinking about it, the F38310 shouldn't have a problem at all as the signal is still the same. Thanks tommylotto

DrJoe, have you got an update on getting your F38310 repaired?

I was wondering the same DrJoe...any luck? By the way, what is the Part number of the part you cannot find? Maybe it wouldn't hurt to place a call down the street to my RCA repair center. Ya never know what they might have sitting around. Let me know what you need and I will place a call. Maybe others here could do the same if they have some competent repair shops around them that have dealt with this set. Just a thought...Jeff

Originally posted by oppie
I've never had any problem in the years I have owned the F38310. Same here almost 2 1/2 years and still going strong.

Okay. I have been playing with the service menu adjustments for a while now. They are NOT independent for each input. I believe there is a different set of settings for each resolution -- 1080i, 480i and 480p. My component input is connected to a Zektor component switch, which is connected to HD Tivo, Momitsu and Play Station. I have my laptop/music server connected via S-video. The laptop at 480i has intentional underscan leave a black border. I was afraid of burn in, so I adjusted it to have the desktop match the screen. The changes I made for S-Video 480i were also made on the component input when using 480i. However, the component input has separate setting for 480i and 1080i. I assume it also has separate settings for 480p.

Once I figured this out, I set both 480i and 1080i to the minimum overscan. I then switched back and forth from 480i to 1080i on the HD Tivo. I can confirm that there is less picture (more inherent overscan) with 1080i. I can also confirm that there is still a slight barrel roll effect on 1080i when displayed with minimum overscan, though not as bad as 480i.

Jeff,

Bob (of Bob Latulippe Electronics) thinks he has identified the problem as the A/V Input board. It is also called the AA/V In Board and the A/V In/Out board (different names in different places in the service manual). He is checking to see if this board is available from RCA (I need to call and find out if he was able to get it). It is a $60 part, #248019. This is the board that the video inputs are connected to on the rear of the set.

I have a line on an "unrepaireable" set for parts -- but the contact there has not called me back to let me know if this board is salvagable.

Earlier in the process, Bob thought it was the "kine driver board" or "kine socket board assembly" (pronounced "kin-ee"); again, different names in different sections of the service manual. This is the board that is unavailable from RCA. It clips directly onto the tube stem and us a $200 part. He thought that a clamping circuit that exists to protect the CRT was blown. However, he was able to "jumper" this output, and the set still is shutting down. Subsequently, he traced it to an IC soldered onto the A/V Input board.

Bob says the picture looks excellent -- but that the set immediately shuts down after turning on.

take care,

Joe

Originally posted by tommylotto
Okay. I have been playing with the service menu adjustments for a while now. They are NOT independent for each input. I believe there is a different set of settings for each resolution -- 1080i, 480i and 480p. My component input is connected to a Zektor component switch, which is connected to HD Tivo, Momitsu and Play Station. I have my laptop/music server connected via S-video. The laptop at 480i has intentional underscan leave a black border. I was afraid of burn in, so I adjusted it to have the desktop match the screen. The changes I made for S-Video 480i were also made on the component input when using 480i. However, the component input has separate setting for 480i and 1080i. I assume it also has separate settings for 480p.

Once I figured this out, I set both 480i and 1080i to the minimum overscan. I then switched back and forth from 480i to 1080i on the HD Tivo. I can confirm that there is less picture (more inherent overscan) with 1080i. I can also confirm that there is still a slight barrel roll effect on 1080i when displayed with minimum overscan, though not as bad as 480i.

Tommy,

I haven't played with the service menus very much, and it hasn't been clear to me how you set each of the modes. The service manual glosses over this procedure. Can you describe in a step by step manner what you did to adjust each scan rate (video mode)? Do you input a scan rate on the service menu, then make adjustments, then switch to the next? Or does the set autodetect the present video source scan rate, and adjust it? (i.e. Do you tell it which scan rate you want to adjust, or does it default to adjust the existing scan rate present on the video input?)

I think some of the confusion that is existing over the service menu adjustments (and hence barrel roll) has to do with the fact that the picture adjustments (brightness, sharpness, color, black level, etc.) are independent for each video input source (Video 1, 2, 3, Front, Ant A/B, Sat, Component). I think people are assuming that the service menu works the same way.

It seems, though, that the service menu adjustments are NOT tied to the input source at all, but to the scan rate (480i, 480p, 1080i) and are interdependent for the three scan rates. People are mixing these two adjustments up (or are assuming that service menu adjustments act the same as picture adjustments).

I think, once we are all satisfied that we understand what is going on, I'll need to make an update to the FAQ on this subject.

Ciao,

Joe

Originally posted by DrJoe
Tommy,

I haven't played with the service menus very much, and it hasn't been clear to me how you set each of the modes. The service manual glosses over this procedure. Can you describe in a step by step manner what you did to adjust each scan rate (video mode)? Do you input a scan rate on the service menu, then make adjustments, then switch to the next? Or does the set autodetect the present video source scan rate, and adjust it? (i.e. Do you tell it which scan rate you want to adjust, or does it default to adjust the existing scan rate present on the video input?)


The changes you make automatically adjust the scan rate that you are in when you enter the service menu.

I would enter the service menu while in the component input at 1080i and the various parameters would have one set of values. Then I would re-enter the service menu -- still on the component input, but with 480i, and there was a complete different set of values. I adjusted the numbers for 1080i (while feeding the component input 1080i), then I would re-enter the service menu while feeding the same input 480i to adjust the numbers for 480i. When I switched to S-Video 2, the changes that I had made to 480i on the component input had obviously been made on S-video 2 as well.

Your comments are correct, picture adjustments are input dependent whereas service menu adjustments are scan rate dependent.

Tommy,

After you adjusted the parameters for 480i, were the parameters for 1080i changed? i.e. was there any cross-talk? As I said earlier, the service manual says that adjusting the service menu parameters for one mode "interacts and affects" the other modes.

thanks,

Joe

No. Changing the parameters on 1080i did not change 480i and vice versa -- as far as I can tell. There might be a slight interaction, but I did not notice any. When they said interacts and affects other modes they might be referring to how changing 480i on component affects 480i on S-video. This creates a problem for me. I watch my HD Tivo in 480i through component when watching SD programs so that the signal can be retransmitted to my other SD TVs in the front of my house. My laptop music server outputs 480i which is severely under scanned leaving a black border. Adjusting 480i for one, messes up the other dramatically.

Also, do you ever have trouble getting into the service menu? It takes me forever to get in. I press all three buttons simultaneously, but more often than not I turn the set off, switch its out put, or go into the menu. I have to start over and over again, until I finally get into the menu while in the right mode.

Update on my repair:

It seems the part I need is available through Sears (but not RCA!).

I'm ordering it this afternoon, ahould have it on the 29th.


Joe

Originally posted by tommylotto
Also, do you ever have trouble getting into the service menu? It takes me forever to get in. I press all three buttons simultaneously, but more often than not I turn the set off, switch its out put, or go into the menu. I have to start over and over again, until I finally get into the menu while in the right mode.

Don't use the power button... only press the other two simutaneously.

It appears that you guys have figured out a great deal more aout this TV than the last time I checked here. Perhaps you can help me.

What does it take to adjust/reduce the vertical overscan when in zoom mode for 480i input via S-Video? Can it be done via the service menu? Does anyone have a simple walk-through or how-to?

Mine, as did all F38310's, has this set to stretch too much vertically.

That's the way full mode works. You lose some of the top and bottom.
If you adjust while in this mode, you will mess up the 'normal' setting.

I'd suggest that if the 'normal' mode (4:3) is acceptible, don't make adjustments while set to the 'fill/full' mode.

Originally posted by DrJoe
Update on my repair:

It seems the part I need is available through Sears (but not RCA!).

I'm ordering it this afternoon, ahould have it on the 29th.


Joe

I spoke too soon...

He gave me the wrong part number.

The problem is a surface mount IC on the I/O board. This is the PCB that the s-video jacks are connected to on the back of the set. RCA does not sell it as a part.

The challenge now is to find a replacement board from a dead set (which is hopefully functional), or to solder a new IC to it. This is apparently a challenge because it is a multilayer PCB.

Joe

Originally posted by Ratman
That's the way full mode works. You lose some of the top and bottom.
I realize that. My problem is that I lose too much. I *should* lose as much on top and bottom as the letterbox bars occupy, but instead I lose significantly more than that. I was under the impression that this is correctable as part of an ISF calibration, without screwing up the picture in normal or fill mode.

My question is: is this adjustable via the service menu, or do you have to open up the set and/or be an ISF-certified pro to do this?
If you adjust while in this mode, you will mess up the 'normal' setting.
I'd suggest that if the 'normal' mode (4:3) is acceptible, don't make adjustments while set to the 'fill/full' mode.
Can anyone else verify this?

Originally posted by rttrek
I realize that. My problem is that I lose too much. I *should* lose as much on top and bottom as the letterbox bars occupy, but instead I lose significantly more than that. I was under the impression that this is correctable as part of an ISF calibration, without screwing up the picture in normal or fill mode.

My question is: is this adjustable via the service menu, or do you have to open up the set and/or be an ISF-certified pro to do this?

Can anyone else verify this?

I'm not sure that anyone can fix it. I had my set ISF calibrated, by a tech with access to a chippercheck, and I still think the zoom mode for the F38310 sucks. If your 480i is for DVD, then I'd advise you to get a player that can zoom letterboxed video for you. If it is for something else, I don't have any suggestions.

Joe

All I can suggest is that you connect your DVD player to the input you want to adjust.

Run Avia or VE and display the pattern for overscan.

Use the service mode in the F38310 and use the Horz/vert size/width/position to adjust to where you prefer. Be careful and write down the setting prior to changing anything.

Or... maybe the 'letterboxing' of your DVD player is not the best. (Not a bash... just a thought)

It is *not* for DVD - I have a Panny RP91 that does everything one could wish. :)

My problem is with LB content from my DirecTiVo, programs that are broadcast letterboxed such as West Wing.

Ratman, will adjusting the "vert size" in full mode change it in normal and fill?

Anyone have a pointer to details on entering service mode, and on how to adjust "vert size"?

I know that...
but to properly determine overscan settings, you need to use the Avia or VE DVD for calibration. So hooking the DVD will possibly give you the best assessment.

Your other option is 'eyeballing'.

I can't address what will happen with 'fill/full' mode adjustments. I adjusted my set all in a 'normal' mode. I rarely use the fill/full modes and am happy with what I have.

As for entering service modes and some adjustments... check out DrJoe FAQ's for F38310.

Originally posted by rttrek
My problem is with LB content from my DirecTiVo, programs that are broadcast letterboxed such as West Wing.

The solution to this problem is obvious: HD Tivo :D

Just got one. Today! Going in another room though.

Got another on order for the F38310. :)

rttrek, I have been wondering for over 3 years if there is any way to fix the vertical overstretch in Fill mode. I think it stretches about 50% compared to the correct 33%. My DVD player and SAT-HD300 can handle their part, but if I want to watch a videotape of letterboxed widescreen material, the F38310 Fill mode would be my choice if it would function properly. If anyone has had any luck correcting this defect, please post and Dr. Joe can add it to the FAQ.

I hadn't thought about this before, but if the HD DTiVo properly handles this then I will no longer need it fixed. I won't use the SD DTiVo, and I will also disable the DTV service for the internal DTC-100. The only time it'll catch me is for SD material received OTA by the DTC-100, which I'll only use if both my DTiVo tuners are busy and I want to watch a third OTA channel, and that channel's program is letterboxed.

Well, unless I transfer something from my front room via composite, but that's very rare.

My parents have the F38310 and the speakers stopped working. We bought the extended warranty, but Circuit City can't fix it. Their only offer is to give us our money back ($1899). I'm not sure what we'd do with that money because there aren't any TVs that are anywhere near as good for that price. I don't want a smaller TV, because their wall unit was built for the F38310. Anyone have any ideas?

Buy a receiver and speakers and output all your audio via the optical into that. Far superior to the TV speakers as well. My audio through the TV speakers had been screwed up almost ever since I bought this unit. For some reason one channel is gone via the speakers as well as over the analog outputs of the set. The optical digital out put is just fine though. I have wanted to get it fixed but my local RCA shop has to pick up the set. It's just not worth it if they drop it. I would never use the sets speakers any way. Just a thought...

Did you try hooking a pair external speakers to the set (connection on the back)? I believe there is a switch there also (as well as a setting in the user menus). Worth a shot if they don't have an audio receiver.

Good suggestion. Like most of us, I just use the optical output, and had forgotten about those external speaker terminals. Had to check to refresh my memory.

If you took the CC offer, you could probably buy a replacement unit for under $1000 with shipping on Ebay. Do an "Advanced search" for completed items to get a feel for replacement costs. There are two up for auction now. It likely wouldn't have a warranty, though.

I wouldn't be surprised if audio is completely dead on the set (external speakers and digital audio -- as CC says it is "unrepairable", I would be surprised if it is as simple as an internal speaker problem. Something has to be wrong with the audio processor.

If you are able to get one of the other audio outputs working, you might want to try to settle for a reduced refund -- and then see if a local independent repair shop can fix the problem for that amount. It may be that they would be willing to attempt some surface mount chip replacements that CC might call "unrepairable".



Joe

Originally posted by aviators99
My parents have the F38310 and the speakers stopped working. We bought the extended warranty, but Circuit City can't fix it...

What does it take for CC to say they can't fix the set and give you credit? Now that my F38310 is in the bedroom, we hardly use it. It would be nice to just get a credit that I could use for a new audio receiver, and replace the F38310 with a smaller display with DVI. Maybe I could simply bribe the repair guy when he comes out next Tuesday. ;)

Easy - have aviators take the money and buy *your* set!

DrJoe,

Do you know of any way to do a convergence on the F38310? I understand that direct view tv's usually do not need this as rptv's do. My F38310 looks great when you input the cross hatch grid from the test menu, but the edges could be tweaked just a little. My ISF calibrater has only found info to do a manual convergence from the back of the tube itself. The convergence tab in ChipperCheck was not available for the 306 chassis.

Sorry, radicon, I didn't get an email saying new posts were made, so my response is slow...

First, you might read the chipper check instruction manual:
http://www.thomsonnetwork.com/documents/Training.pdf

Second, you must have already looked at the chapter from the service menu on alignment procedures:
http://www.manitoupark.com/public/Section3_1-10.pdf

That's all I know. Unfortunately I can't remember what was done (if anything) about convergence when I had it ISF'd.



Update on my set:

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the electronics out of a dead F38310 (Lurch's set). I paid WAY too much (including the repair cost, I probably could have bought a working replacement with shipping on Ebay), and have no guarantee that the board I need is working. Supposedly the DM1 Power Supply is dead. He told me that he thought the other parts (the DM1 module, the I/O Board I need, the maine power board, the kine board, etc) were OK. I hope he wasn't bs-ing me -- if he is, I suppose I can contest the credit card charge.

On this subject, Aviators99, see if you can find out which board/component is bad on your set. If it is a different board than I need, maybe I can make a deal to help cut my cost. Maybe you can settle and retain the set -- and pay for the part of of the settlement. Or maybe cc or the servicer would be willing to buy the part off me. Anyone else looking for parts?

Anyways, I should get the parts in a week (UPS Ground, Oakland to Central Maine), and then my servicer will swap the board in and see if it works.

Joe

DrJoe,

The ChipperCheck manual you are referencing on the Thomson website is not up-to-date. ChipperCheck is currently available only through Sencore even though the website states otherwise. The ISF tech who calibrated my F38310 purchased ChipperCheck just before he came to the house. The manual was much more detailed than what is available on the website. Even though the manual talks about digital convergence, this option was not even available for the 306 chassis through ChipperCheck. The ISF tech has not been able to find any way to do a convergence on the F38310 except through the manual pot adjustments on the back of the tube. He was just wondering if you had found another way to do this. Thanks for the help.

Good luck with the incoming parts for your F38310.

Rodney

Is there a test pattern that one can display for the purposes of adjusting the pots in the back by the user?

I knew it is available through sencore (I think I proveded the link to their website in my FAQ); the only instructions for chipper check I know of are on the Thompson site (which is referred to by Sencore). There are schematics and a parts list on the Thompson page, so presumably you could build one yourself and download the software there. There is also a (thompson) technical support number for Chipper Check --800-711-6913.

I figured you had the links but I posted them just in case. The short answer is no, I don't know how to (or if you can) perform digital convergence via chipper check. The convergence function may only be for CRT projectors.

Joe

I spoke to soon... maybe...

There is an interesting interactive chipper check training module on the sencore site.

Go to http://www.sencore.com/products/chipper.htm and click on the training demo. When you work through the section on alignments to the page on required equipment it says "Digital Convergence" next to "projection TV convergence". It would seem not to apply for our chassis.

However.... On the same page is a service bulletin
http://www.sencore.com/products/chipper/tv02003.pdf

"chipper check unable to communicate with convergence module

chipper check requires a special adaptor and an additional cable to control convergence in the digital chasis instruments."

You might check the adaptor.

DrJoe,

Great find. I will let you know how this turns out.


jwheeler

There are some test patterns listed under the 'test menu' (not the service menu), but I am not at home and do not remember if there is a convergence test pattern or not. There are some color test patterns, but not the correct ones to adjust the color and tint properly. That is a shame as one has to make these color adjustments visually on Antenna A and B if you do not have a signal generator.

I made some changes in the FAQ regarding the scan rate vs video input in the service menu section. Please review them and send me sugestions for improving the entry.

http://home.austin.rr.com/doctorjoe/f38310faq.pdf


Thanks,

Joe

DrJoe,

Thanks for the update on the FAQ. The info is a great help to all of us.

Here is the response from my ISF tech on digital convergence for the F38310;

*****
"The kit I got from Sencore didn't include the adaptor mentioned in the service bulletin. I believe it was later replaced with the TECI1 adapter, which is the one we used if I remember correctly. It did come with additional cables, but we didn't use those. There were no instructions on where to attach the other cables on your chassis."

"The guy at Sencore who told me there was no digital convergence on this chassis is pretty reliable, I know he checked it out. Assuming he was correct, that would mean that somewhere on one of the boards there will be an array of trim pots that tweak convergence. They should be pretty obvious. Also, if we could get the service manual or a set of schematics for this set, the directions for convergence would be there. Service manuals are usually available either directly from the manufacturer, or from companies that distribute that sort of thing. Keep working that forum, ask if anybody can get the service manual, schematics, or convergence instructions. It has to be there somewhere. Every color CRT ever made has convergence adjustments somewhere. Fixing your convergence will make a bigger impact on picture quality than fixing barrel distortion, in my opinion anyway."

*****

I believe that the service manual that we all have access to (as stated in your FAQ) does not include the convergence info. Where could one get a complete copy of the service manual?

You can buy it from a number of places -- including the Thompson service website.

I have a copy, and don't believe it says anything about convergence. I'll see if I have time to look it over this weekend.


Joe

Radicon,

I read over the whole service manual, and did not find anything about a convergence adjustment. All of the geometry adjustments in the manual are in the chapter that has been posted. I also didn't see any obvious adjustable pots on any of the board schematics.

Joe

DrJoe,

Thanks for checking this out.

Anyone else miss Captain Nemo/Bionic Manaus/Hob? He has abandoned us after starting this thread almost a year ago.

I believe that he was asked to refrain from posting.

I'm sure opinions vary. He (John) did provide some 'stimualting' debates!
BTW... you forgot (I think he also used) "QBall2".

Well my F38310 repair saga has begun. Tuesday the guy from CC replaced the capacitors with the new ones (and I made sure they weren't the same ones). All was ok until this morning. When I tried to power it on, it would not power up. I had to do what I did before it was "repaired". That is, unplug it, let it sit, and then power it on. Once on, it lasted about 30 seconds before it froze up in a fury of pixelation. I guess I'll call them out again. The rep I spoke to before said that if I had it repaired three times, I could get a credit for the set.

Did he replace/check the diodes also? They may be shot if the caps went. It's usually a 'cascade' effect if the cap problem isn't caught soon enough.

All he replaced was the caps. As far as what he checked, I'm unsure. I think he checked to see if the module was loose/seated. Does that sound right? I really should have paid more attention, but I was busy at the time.

Based on my experience, I had the caps replaced when my set died. Two weeks later, the diodes crapped out. On the second visit the tech replaced the caps (that he replaced before) again as well as the two diodes. Been good for a year now.


Seating of the board is not really and issue other than providing stability. All compoments connect to the board with cables/connectors.

Just to be sure.... the old caps were brown and the new ones are blue/silver, right?

The old caps were blue/light blue while the new ones are blue/gold. The number on the RCA bags for the new ones is 248988, and it says they were made in Japan. The service guy insisted that they were different from the ones originally in the set.

From another forum, there are the RCA parts:
capacitor 248988 x2
diode 243844 x1
diode 245998 x1

Here's another excerpt:We use the RCA stuff, caps are part# 248988, diodes are #234048.
You will need two of each, the parts retail for about $6.00-$7.00 each from RCA
Generics could be cheaper, but I have never cross-referenced the parts since we always use the originals.
Tell the Sears guy to go ahead and order the parts under warranty, and change C14113/14115 also CR14107 and the one next to it CR14117.

I'm not an expert as to the how the colors relate to the ratings, but it seems that he's on the right track. IMO... just to be safe, on the next service call, I'd have all four components replaced and start 'fresh'. Just to be safe.

Reference:
http://download.ethomson.com/english/UNBRANDED/COLOR_TV/SB/TV03002.pdf

http://download.ethomson.com/english/UNBRANDED/COLOR_TV/SB/TV02008.pdf

any equivalents that can be purchased at electronics stores?

Yup

I feel for everybody on here. I had the Proscan PS38000 which is the same set as the RCA F38310. Got it Dec. 2001 and it died to the point of no return 6 months later. RCA ate it and I got a store credit. I only really got it cuz of it's huge 38-inch 16:9 screen and fairly cheap price for a tube set this size. It has no DVI, no flat screen, no 720p upconvert for my 720p Xbox games, the sound of fans, slow digital channel change, built-in digital tuner (bad idea repair wise), no wide stretch modes, tiny fixed picture-in-picture, the INFAMOUS "piano roll" effect at the far right-left edges of the screen, and about the worst repair rate in the business. I got the 34-inch Sony 34xbr800 with my store credit. 720p input (very uncommon on CRT sets) for my Xbox games was the #1 reason I was sold on this set. That and the fact it's a Sony. Plus it had all the features the RCA didn't have as I listed above. If you can get the set off your hands with a store credit then go for it as soon as you can!! It's not worth the world of problems this set has been having.;)

No service problems so far with my F38310 at 37 months, but I'm keeping my CC extended warranty going. A store credit would be great when the 2005 Sony 40" 1920x1080P LCD panel becomes available! I can't go any smaller because I'm very pleased with the 36-degree picture width recommended by THX. This puts me at 50" from the 38" display (1.33 X 16:9 diagonal). The new Sony 34" models like the 960 sound great, but the 45" viewing distance wouldn't work for me.

My F38310 died an untimely death at 9:01 PM Tuesday July 20th 2004. It will be missed.

After pulling off the back cover I was expecting a problem with the power supply, but in my case is seem that something else is the culprit. Namely CR14710 which I think is one of the high voltage power supply circuits. Without any schematics it's kind of hard to know.

The part is located on the bottom circuit board. Directly in front a heat sink. It's kind of buried so getting a close look is kind of difficult. It appears to have ferrite beads around the leads. Any ideas as to what this part is, what is function might be, and possible diagnostics and repair procedures. Or baring all that, any suggestions on a good local shop that will in house service this beast for less than the cost of new set.

JoeFloyd... check your PM's.

What is RCA's position on these Turkeys, have they just walked away ?

Is the RCA F38310 that much different from it's little sister the 36" thats been running daily for 3 years now ?

DrJoe,

What is the status of your F38310 repair?

Does the F38310 that you bought to use as repairs have the plastic cover for the front video inputs. Mine has been missing since I purchased it as an open box buy 18+ months ago. If so, PM me the details.
Thanks
Rodney

I talked to the repair guy yesterday -- he has officially given up. The Board swap either wasn't one-to-one (he said the kine circuit was different so maybe the video I/O board was too) or there was something wrong with it.

My total repair costs (what I owe the servicer plus the parts I bought) came to $550 -- I should have junked it and bought something else.

I guess I'll wait until Christmas and llok at the new sets that are coming out -- prices are falling, and there should be more sets around with internal tuners.


If anyone has an extra Video I/O board, I'd love to try swapping it out. Otherwise parts are for sale. I'd love to recoup the repair costs to put toward a new set. I have 2 good DM1 modules (my original is still OK, the one from the junker may be), one good DM1 power supply, a good picture tube, etc.


Joe

I have good news to report. My 38310 is back in operation. It took a little while about $30 in parts and the $40 service manual, but it seems to be running normally.

I performed the repair myself. Not too difficult from an electronics standpoint. The service manual is the key needed to perform any work on this set. It would have been impossible to do without the information contained on the CD. In particular, the service manual has the schematics and troubleshooting information that's needed to figure out what needs to be replaced. It also has the RCA part numbers that you need when ordering the replacement parts.

The parts were order from
Tritronics (http://www.tritronicsinc.com)

I don't know what the out of warranty repair bill would have been, but given how much of the TV I had to take apart to get to the high voltage deflection power supply circuit, it's not the typical do it yourself kind of repair.

I need some assistance. My 38310 is developing that squeeling sound (high piteched sound) off an on. What do I need to tell the repair guy to bring/replace? I have had no work done on the tv since it was bought, and it is a 2002 model tv. Any things I should have the guy replace on top of the work for the squeeling noise? Any part numbers or things to tell the repair guy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Squealing may be the flyback transformer.
You should have him check that the capacitors on the DM-1 power supply card have been upgraded to the higher rated caps.

If not... ask to have them replaced. They will eventually fail.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4070578#post4070578

I guess I'll post an update here...

My set was determined by RCA to be unrepairable. An IC on the video I/O board is bad. This IC is soldered on both sides of the board, and the servicer would not attempt to replace it. Nor would RCA gave me a credit toward a 56" RPTV HDTV Monitor. It is now in our family room.

After removing the serial number from their system, the old set was abandoned by RCA. The servicer let me have it back (it was taking up room in his garage that he wanted back).

Since then I have found out two things:

1) There is a company, Tri-State Module, that claims it can fix the board, for $280.

2) I may have a local person at the place I work (a semiconductor fab) who can replace the chip for me. I'm going to go this route. some time in the next few weeks, I will pull the board, order the chip, and offer to buy Sharon lunch if she pulls and replaces the chip for me. The chip costs $8.

We shall see what we shall see.


Joe

The ironic thing DrJoe is that you are the guy who has done so much work for us F38310 owners and you are the one person that has his set fry beyond repair. I certainly hope it works out for you cheaply any your set lives again. Any of us could follow in your foot steps with a similar failure. Please keep us informed.

Well,

I ordered the chip (two of them, actually -- minimum order was $15). My coworker says she thinks she can replace the chip without any problem. The chip should get here Wed. Then I have to put it the board back into the set and get all the connections right -- that may be the hardest part.

Anyone want to make a prediction?

My guess is that the set is still hosed. :(


Joe

Well... I have confidence that your coworker is very compentent. +1
I have confidence that you can reconnect the board properly. +2

I hope it works and you have a nice surprise!

The real question is... have you moved those plants? :)
If not... -3

Well, like I said, I don't think it was plants, I think it was the movers... But yes, the plants are gone from anywhere near the entertainment center... Trouble is, I now have a 56" RPTV set where the F38310 used to be. I don't have a clue what I will do with it if it does work again. It is too large for our bedroom, and it gets cold in the garage in the winter.

Joe

Well, they picked my set up today for the second CC service call. I've had the caps replaced before, but this time CC dumped the repair on a local outfit. They said they've worked on about 9-10 of the sets and all of the repairs have been a little bit different. My set was locking up all the time in a fury of pixelation. The only way to reset it was to unplug/plug the unit.

Well, the chip(s) came in -- but the woman who will do the soldering went on vacation for a week.

She did a nice job removing the old chip.

We will see next week what we will see.


Joe

Hi all,
Just saw this thread. I have not done an extensive search but I own the sister TV PS38000 supposedly the exact same thing made by Proscan. I bought mine off of a seller on Ebay brand new perhaps 3-4 years ago. I actually don't remember now..I'm getting old. I saw in this thread ways to see the diagnostics. Does anyone know the PS38000 equivalents?

By the way.....I LOVE My HDTV. Wonderful purchase!!! Picture is still amazing.


Thanks.
Ken

I would assume service menu access would be the same as the RCA.
Normally, RCA pastes the service codes on the inside of the back cover.

Well,

I have the repaired board back from the plant's electronics shop. Solder job looks nice.

We will see tonight if the set lives again.

Hey, Rats --

Do you remember a year or two ago when we were speculating about the diagrams in the service manual that showed DVI inputs on the video board?

Well, this is that video board.

It seems that there are many additional "features" that are possible on this board.

There are empty areas on several parts of the board. One is a second component video input, there's the dvi input, two RGB 15 pin inputs and a couple of USB inputs. It looks like they are missing all of the associated support diodes, capacitors, resistors and IC's. Oh well.

Joe

Man... that would be nice to add the additional inputs... but even if someone were able to figure out what the parts are and installed, I'm sure that the 'firmware' would also need to be modified. How would one be able to select the 'added' outputs?

If someone with the technical 'savvy' could figure out a mod/upgrade kit (169time?), there could be an opportunity that would be of benefit for everyone.

Yes, but what's the market size? How many F38310's are out there?

I added a link to a pdf with pictures of the video board to my homepage -- I'll leave it up for a few days.

Joe

Originally posted by rttrek
Yes, but what's the market size? How many F38310's are out there?

Does it matter?
Have you looked at the price(s) for the IEE1394 mod from 169time?

If there is a capability to add funtionality (input/output) to the F38310, there could be a potential market.

Especially if DVI inputs can be accomodated. Additional outputs would be nice for those looking for DVR capabilities, which most don't use firewire (D-VHS being the exception).

Originally posted by Ratman
Does it matter?
Have you looked at the price(s) for the IEE1394 mod from 169time?

Yes, once. Gasped, then quickly browsed away! I wonder if those sell at all anymore. When it was new and there were fewer alternatives, perhaps.

I can't detect any degredation at all with a $17 Philips PH61146 Video Selector connecting 4 devices (Sony SAT-HD300, LG LST-3410A HD DVR, Zenith DVB318 upconverting DVD player, Magnavox 64017 DVD recorder) to the component input of my F38310. This is just a simple mechanical switcher with no remote, but I have it out front where it's easily reached from my (THX optimal) 50" viewing distance.

No Joy.

Set turns on for about 10 seconds (tunes from the antenna OK), then shuts down.

I think my next move may be to try to replace the kine socket board. The connector/cable between the kine board and the main PC board are different, so I'll have to kluge something to make the connection.


Joe

UncD200,
Understood, but I would be nice for lazy folks to just push the remote.
Also... it would be nice to have DVI and perhaps a video output for recording (for those that have a DVR).

DrJoe,
A man after my own heart! You haven't given up hope yet! Keep at it. After your investments to get this beast repaired, you have nothing to lose. I wish we lived closer so I could join in on the quest! :)

where does one purchase said Philips PH61146 Video Selector?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001GGXQ8/102-4077398-8546539?v=glance

I got the Philips switcher at Menards, a Home Depot type retailer in the Chicagoland area. These are actually audio/video switchers, but work fine for component. They also had an electronic Philips switcher, which I think was about $35, which could be controlled by any universal remote.
I think it would also select the active device, but I wonder how this would work if several were on at once. Will get the model number and post it.

Originally posted by Ratman
UncD200, DrJoe, A man after my own heart! You haven't given up hope yet! Keep at it. After your investments to get this beast repaired, you have nothing to lose. ......:)

Me too

My 2 year old (open box) JX4 has never needed repairs of any kind, BTW I am viewing my I-8600 with WUGA (1920x1220) on it right now. Getting such tiny print on my 15.4 w/s notebook, the answer for me was to output it to my said JX4(dvd movies, concerts, 'no' cable-tv). I turn on both by rf remote control and boot up at the same time, likewise I turn 'off' AC current/adapter to both by same r/c. Running the JX4 fan 24/365 is a big waste as your cpu fan 'stops' when your finished!

The Philips PH61153 Automatic Audio/Video Selector ($29.64 at both Menards & Walmart) includes a Ch. 3 output for older TVs. It claims to switch inputs automatically and to be controllable by a universal remote.
In retrospect, I guess I should have given this model a try. Walmart also has an RCA model (VH911) for $17.84 that is a simple mechanical switcher like the Philips PH61146.

canue, I agree about the 24/7 fan. I kill the power to my F38310 a couple of minutes after I turn the set off, just to blow some of the hot air out. No problems with my JX5 after 40 months, but I recently renewed the CC extended warranty because of all the horror stories I read here.

The component that failed a couple months ago has once again given up the ghost. CR14710 is a high voltage diode in the deflection power supply and when it goes, it really goes up in flames.

At this point I need to test the main power supply feeding the high voltage circuit. I think that it might be out of spec. From the schematic, the main power supply outputs 75V DC to the high voltage deflection power supply. A switching transistor takes the 75V DC from the main power supply, switches it at high speed to drive a step up transformer which supplies 1700V to the deflection rectifier bridge of which the CR14710 is a component. Whatever is going on, this part is breaking down at something above it's rated peak inverse voltage of 2KV.

Fun fun fun.

Well, I just got the word today that my 2 1/2 year old F38310 is unrepairable from the local repair shop. I'm not sure what the final verdict was, but the receptionist said the parts and labor were equal to or more than the set cost me. So now the ball is back in CC's court. I'm guessing I'll get a credit or check. Hopefully a check. I'll definitely be getting something a little lighter.

Originally posted by elspankdog
Well, I just got the word today that my 2 1/2 year old F38310 is unrepairable from the local repair shop. I'm not sure what the final verdict was, but the receptionist said the parts and labor were equal to or more than the set cost me. So now the ball is back in CC's court. I'm guessing I'll get a credit or check. Hopefully a check. I'll definitely be getting something a little lighter.

Its a shame about these sets. RCA was really pushing the CRT size/scan rate envelope on these. The technically better curved screen killed them I think. Everybody likes the flat screens.

ss

Its not to late these are still aviable at www.overstock.com

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=825051

Thanks for the post of the link. But I would not buy one of these turkeys for half the price they are asking.

Had one for 3.5 weeks years back.................. Damn those things are heavy

Mine will be 3 years old in January and it is on over 12 hrs. each day.
I have not had one single problem and eveyone always asks what kind of tv I have since the picture looks so good. Maybe I just got lucky, but this has been the best set I have ever owned. Too bad they quit making them.

Originally posted by UncD2000
The Philips PH61153 Automatic Audio/Video Selector ($29.64 at both Menards & Walmart) includes a Ch. 3 output for older TVs. It claims to switch inputs automatically and to be controllable by a universal remote.
In retrospect, I guess I should have given this model a try. Walmart also has an RCA model (VH911) for $17.84 that is a simple mechanical switcher like the Philips PH61146.I took my own advice and tried the PH61153 automatic switcher. Unfortunately, there were two big problems with it. (1) It seems to amplify the color so that my LG LST-3410A suddenly had "red push" and color ghosting. (2) Faint "hum bars" could be seen from the LST-3410A unless the cable input was disconnected (my Comcast Digital Phone/cable line is not grounded to the "ground electrode" of my electric meter per NEC - a problem I need to correct).

The 3 other devices connected to the PH61153 worked just fine, and the automatic switching was a great convenience. I couldn't live with the problems on the LST-3410A however, so I returned the PH61153 and went back to the mechanical switcher. Everything is fine again.

Last night I had a power outage for most of the night. I woke up when the back up power for my security system started beeping. When I checked my 2 year old F38310. There was some phantom power. The beam was concentrated in the center of the screen. Right out of Poltergeist. I have no idea how long it was like that--- but I'm sure it caused some burn-in. I pulled the plug to stop the damage. When I woke up this morning, it would not power up. I'll be taking it into CC to see if they can fix it. I wisely bought the ESP.

I have all my electronic equipment connected to a Panamax surge protector
for that type of protection. By the way, does anyone know if the signal fed to the component inputs on this tv are upconverted to 1080i?

No; if you read the service manual alignment chapter closely, you will notice that there are three "native" scan rates for the F38310: 480p, 540p, and 1080i (and, watch out, there is a typo in the service manual where they list the 3 scan rates).

Popular wisdom has it that 480p over the component is "native"; 480i is upconverted to 540p and 1080i is "native". The F38310 does not tune 720p over the component input. There have been reports that you can input 540p directly via the component input using a HTPC. As far as the internal ATSC tuner goes (digital OTA and/or DirecTV HD), 720p is (up)converted to 1080i. It isn't clear to me whether internally tuned 480p is native or upconverted to 540p (there is conflicting information regarding how internally tuned 480p is handled). Internally tuned 480i is upconverted to 540p.

Later,

Joe

bump!

CC fixed mine. It took about a month. They replaced the whole board. Strangely, the usual suspect capacitors look fine. The surge broke something else, but he replaced the entire thing, including the capacitors. While it was down, I bought a 42" ED panny plasma. Now they are both up and running. I must say there are times when the ED looks better -- over 12' viewing distance

Well, I just filed a service call. My tuner no longer receives anything OTA. Not analog or digital.

It receives D* fine, although just channel 100 since I have it's service turned off.

We'll see what GG's service guy says.

Well I have skimmed through this thread and decided to post, despite what I have read. You all seem thrilled (mostly) with this set despite all the quirks/problems/etc.

I have an opportunity to by one of these sets used (with matching stand) for under $900...hopefully much less if my "or best offer" offer is accepted. Questions:

1. When I go look at the set, what should I be looking for? (generally vague question, I know)

2. I hope to be able to check the odometer while there. How many hours would be "too many" do you suppose?

3. I am hoping this guy bought an extended service contract. If so are they typically transferable?

3a. If there is no transferable service, given the age of the set (three or four years plus, right?) is it possible to still get a tech somewhere to look at it to cover future problems I may have?

4. I have already a SD D*TiVo, how will this work with the set? (Not sure which model I have, but I can check if needed. Hughes maybe?)

4a. can I connect the D*TiVo through the built-in D* tuner input?

5. I intend initially to use this set strictly for OTA HD...will I NEED any additional equipment other than an antenna?

6. How does this set do with PS2 games?

I think that's it for now...hopefully you guys are still out there loving this set enough to help me out! Thanks in advance...

1. When I go look at the set, what should I be looking for? (generally vague question, I know)

Does it turn on? Does the picture look good? Does it have (or can you bring) an HD source or at least a DVD player with progressive scan so you can see the picture? Ask if he has had the DM1 power supply diodes/caps replaced.

2. I hope to be able to check the odometer while there. How many hours would be "too many" do you suppose?

Don't think it matters. Check the model number -- if it is JX1 or JX2, it is an earlier model possibly prone to more problems.

3. I am hoping this guy bought an extended service contract. If so are they typically transferable?

I wouldn't know. You likely can purchase a warranty of your own through GE Warranties. See my faq for details.

3a. If there is no transferable service, given the age of the set (three or four years plus, right?) is it possible to still get a tech somewhere to look at it to cover future problems I may have?

You might have one look at the DM1 power supply, but I don't think he will be able to do anything more than check if the diodes/caps have been replaced.

4. I have already a SD D*TiVo, how will this work with the set? (Not sure which model I have, but I can check if needed. Hughes maybe?)

It should work like any other video input. The F38310 has one component video input, and 3 a/v s-video inputs. There's also two coaxial antenna inputs. What is the best video output for the TiVo? s-video? Use it.

4a. can I connect the D*TiVo through the built-in D* tuner input?

No. You can hook the built-in D* tuner to your directv dish and use it as a seperate tuner. You may need a new DTV card -- and you should be able to sweet talk DTV into giving you one for free.

5. I intend initially to use this set strictly for OTA HD...will I NEED any additional equipment other than an antenna?

You will need a coaxial cable to attach the antenna to one

6. How does this set do with PS2 games?

Shouldn't be worse than any other TV.

I think that's it for now...hopefully you guys are still out there loving this set enough to help me out! Thanks in advance...

Read the FAQ, link below.


Joe

DrJoe,
Thanks for the quick reply and in depth FAQ. I have printed it out and will read it over later, before I go and inspect the set.

One more question that I wish I had though of before.

If you had $800-900 to spend on a set and no more for the foreseeable future, would you go and try and find a new HD set (say the HD Sanyo's at WalMart) OR would your preference be to pick up another RCA F38310 , such as this used one? (assuming good working condition, of course)

That's a call you will have to make. The Sanyos are smaller, nd the tuner is OTA only. They are an existing line and presumably repairable, and will be under the manufacturer's warranty.

The F38310 is much larger, has an HD direcTV receiver, but has a (at best) questionable repairibility record. It is no longer being manufactured, and warranty's are expensive.

I don't know anything about the PQ or reliability of the (presumably Chinese imports) Walmart sells. You might do a search and see what folks say.


Joe

I would think you may be able to talk him down a bit for the following reasons:

If he has not had the caps and diodes replaced.

This Mpeg 4 thing happening with directv that from what I have read might render the internal directv receiver useless for newer HD in as few as 6 months. Debateable as to what Directv is going to do to help us out with a new receiver whenever that happens.

If its anything other than a JX5 model

Other than that if you can get it for a couple of hundred less I would do it. It has a great picture and is Bigger than any CRT you can buy now.

I'd buy another F38310 in a minute!

Depending on the known issues mentioned above (cap/diode problem) I'd check and use that as leverage to drive the asking price down. Also I agree that JX1 and 2's are shaky, JX3 is better... if it's JX4 or YX5 you're better off.

There's no comparison between the Sanyo HT30744 and the F38310. Although the Sanyo is a 'decent' set... it's doesn't come close in size and PQ (IMO). One note... the internal tuner in the Sanyo also receives unencrypted QAM (digital cable) in addition to 8VSB (OTA).

It's a tough call not seeing the set personally, but assuming all is well and in order, I'd offer $750 and see if he bites.

(If the set's in the Philadelphia region, let me know. I can help check it out... or buy it! :) )

Originally posted by tommylotto
While it was down, I bought a 42" ED panny plasma. Now they are both up and running. I must say there are times when the ED looks better -- over 12' viewing distance How do they compare close up? I sit at the THX-optimal 50" from the 38" display. This yields image width of 36 degrees. The viewing distance for a 42" display would be 56". This would probably be my choice if my JX5 becomes unrepairable. The Sony 34" CRTs are nice, but the 45" viewing distance would not work with my recliner. The SED sets will be interesting if they have any models in the 38-42" range.

The 42" plasma was destined to be mounted above the bar in my den. Therefore, it would never be viewed closer than 10 to 12 feet. At that distance (with both sets fed an HD signal) you cannot tell the difference, in fact the plasma probably looks better. When viewing the plasma at closer distances (such as 56") you can see the screen door effect -- the lines between the pixels, whereas the individual pixels are not as noticeable on the F38310. However, when you get real close, you can see why the plasma can put out a better picture. If you pause a picture on your HDTivo and get real close to the F38310 you can see the individual pixels of the 1280 x 1080 shadow mask, or whatever it is called. However, the ray gun is not as accurate as the mask -- pixels shimmer and change. This is particularly noticeable on edges. On the other hand, on the plasma, the pixels are either bright, dark, red, green, blue or whatever. When the picture is paused, the pixels do not move or change.

I imagine that a 42" HD plasma (even at 1024 x 768) would be hands down better -- but it would cost you $3,000.

P.S. my wife is a big football fan and wanted to watched the super bowl from the den this year. It almost brought a tear to my eye.

Originally posted by Ratman
...I agree that JX1 and 2's are shaky, JX3 is better... if it's JX4 or YX5 you're better off.

Forgive my ignorance, and I should not even probably bother to ask, but where will I find these " JX" numbers? Presumably on the back of the set as part of a model number???

actually as you are looking at the front of the set the number is on the left lower side of the unit.

Or on the back...

gladysb2,
Also look for "dirty fingers". With a bright source like a movie with a sky view, or hockey game, look for some smudges that are on the INSIDE of the tube and can't be cleaned. If it has them it's some more bargaining power.
lo

Originally posted by gladysb2
Well I have skimmed through this thread and decided to post, despite what I have read. You all seem thrilled (mostly) with this set despite all the quirks/problems/etc.

I have an opportunity to by one of these sets used (with matching stand) for under $900...hopefully much less if my "or best offer" offer is accepted. Questions:


Well how about an update. Did you buy it ?:cool:

not yet no. Trying to hook up with the seller, but we are on conflicting schedules...and now he is out of town!

Hope to still take a peek when he returns.

BUT, I saw a floor model 34" widescreen (phillips maybe? Don't remember for sure) at local BB for $650 so I may go back for that. There is a small chip in the screen, but I had a hard time locating it while in store. Maybe, just maybe...

Well my F38310 has had the power supply replaced in March 2004. It has been fine ever since until about a month ago. The screen would turn red and then the set would cycle on and off 3 times before shutting done. The local shop came and picked it up and allegedly fixed it. I got it back and within four hours the same thing started happening again. So back to the shop again. I'll update this with the parts they replaced. Anyone else seen this problem? It happens on all inputs so I doubt it is the DM1.

Originally posted by rttrek
Well, I just filed a service call. My tuner no longer receives anything OTA. Not analog or digital.

It receives D* fine, although just channel 100 since I have it's service turned off.
Sorry to take so long to finish this. It took two weeks for a service call on my GG extended warrantee. The service man (who missed his time window) confirmed what I had told them (bad OTA tuner) and said "we'll order the part and call you". I called back over a week later because they hadn't called (of course), and they had the part, but couldn't schedule me until two *more* weeks later because the tech needed an assistant (to remove the back), and the only assistant was booked!

They *finally* came out about 1.5 months after my initial call, and fixed it in 20 minutes.

Thank the powers that be that I had an HDTiVo on this box and wasn't dependent on the OTA tuner!

An assistant to remove the back? That's a crock!

~8 screws and a big hunk of plastic.

I wonder how many they need to screw in a light bulb? :)

Well both of my RCA F38310 JX4s have given up the ghost. And since I don't have any type of warranty on them, I may not have them repaired. That is, unless someone knows of a good TV technician in the Austin, TX area that may make it worthwhile. DrJoe?

To bad too, as one of them probably has less than 200 hours of viewing time on it. Does anyone think they have any value as organ donors?

I don't know any techs in Austin. I had my set calibrated by Siegfried Reidel of Bjorn's out of San Antonio -- you could call and talk to him. He replaced the tube on my set, but was not trained by RCA. He had to borrow a chipper-check from a friend who worked at an RCA approved warranty shop. He might be able to suggest a person to consult with.

I would love to "borrow" some of the electronics, if you decide not to move forward. I _think_ I've narrowed my set's trouble down to the Kine board or the video board. Either or both would be useful for me to try swapping. If you junk them, I'd like the rest of the electronics too. I can send you a check or paypal for shipping.

Good luck,

Joe

My JX5 series is still going strong. Using it @12-15hrs. each day since Dec. 2001. Maybe just lucky, but this has been the best set I have ever had and I am 55yrs. old so I have had plenty. Too bad they aren't still around as the picture quality is outstanding compared to most else on the market.
I have been looking at other models just in case mine goes out and I can't find anything that has as good a picture other than some of the $5000 and up plasma sets. Got this baby for $1800 with the built in hd tuner and direct tv hd, what a bargain!

Joe,

If I decide to not to repair them, what would you be willing to pay for all the electronics in them, or anything else off them for that matter? I prefer to do it in one fell swoop as opposed to piece mealing them out.

Also, thanks for the tip.


Tim

If you are willing to give me the boards, I'll pay for the shipping.

I'm afraid I can't offer you money for the electronics -- I was burned last year when I did pay for the electronics from a dead set and they turned out to be useless. My wife was not understanding at all. Between trying to have it repaired and the dead electronics I've already spent $600+ dollars on this. Rather than spend more, I'll buy an HD tuner for the HD monitor I replaced the F38310 with. I won't spend much more time on the set -- after it warms up outside (the set is in the back of the garage under a tarp), I'll try to trouble shoot it a little bit more, and then off it will go to the dump. All I would want are a few of the PC boards; they are fairly easy to remove (I can send you pictures). If I am able to fix the problem with your boards, I would certainly send you a thank you gift.

I quite understand if you want money for it, and wish you luck finding a buyer.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe,

Let me think about it for awhile. If it's any comfort, you're at the top of the organ donor list.:D

One option for you:

I have an email contact of an executive at Thomson. He arranged for me to get a credit on a new RCA HDTV set to "make things right" even though my set was out of warranty. And you have two. He (or his representative) mioght be ab le to help you too. It will likely require that you have the sets evaluated by RCA-approved technicians and determined to be "unrepairible".

Drop me an email if you are interested.

Joe