http://pix.crutchfield.com/products/2003/130/l130DV563A-F_MT.jpeg

Background
Got my 563A from Crutchfield yesterday. For the price ($160 w/$20 MasterCard coupon), this is one of the best home theater purchases I've ever made! I've been aching to have an affordable universal player for a while, almost getting the pricier Yamaha 2300 or Denon 2900 when they came out. Glad I waited! I've owned more than a dozen DVD player since 1997, including two that played DVD-A. The 563A replaces my Panasonic CP72. My review equipment is the Panasonic 53" (ISF-calibrated) HD RPTV, Onkyo SR600 receiver & Acoustic Research HC6 6.1 speaker system.

Here's my mini-review...

Build Quality & Setup
The 563A is only available in silver. I've always preferred black components, but silver is slowing growing on me (& my wife likes it better). The player is fairly lightweight & sleek-looking (nice, slim design). The remote is light & flimsy-looking, but I use a universal remote anyway.

I made all the connections (power, optical digital & 5.1 multichannel analog) & powered the 563A on. The setup includes an 'advanced' area & a 'guided' area. I went through both to cover all the bases. The 'advanced' area is where you choose how content on DVD-Audio & hybrid SACD should behave. (I set it up so that DVD-Audio & the multichannel portion of SACD play automatically.) The video setup has "Memory 1" & "Memory 2" to save your custom settings; I left mine at standard & 480p output. The final setup I did was with my RadioShack sound meter in the 'advanced' area, adjusting all but the sub to the correct levels (the 563A doesn't let you adjust the sub level).

Audio Performance
I've been dying to hear Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" SACD, so that's what I popped in first. Went to track 4, "Time". Wow! This is the first SACD player I've had so I can't compare, but it was like hearing DSOTM like I've never heard it before (& believe me I've listened to this album countless times). Great clarity, depth & surround effects. I was so thrilled, I called my wife to listen. She isn't a Pink Floyd fan, but concurred the SACD sounded great. She however does like the Police, so I popped in the "Every Breath You Take: The Classics" SACD. Also terrific, although not as "wow" as DSOTM.

Next, I tried the Blue Man Group DVD-A. While very good, the 563A's DVD-A quality didn't quite match that of the Panasonic RP91 & CP72 (my previous DVD-A players). It's still terrific, but the RP91 & CP72 produced slightly fuller audio. The 563A had a little less 'oomph'. Need to listen more when I get some time.

The 563A's Dolby Digital & DTS quality is as good as the best DVD players I've owned. I tried several reference DVDs & they all sounded great.

Video Performance
This I haven't yet evaluated critically yet. I was so interested in the DVD-A/SACD capabilities of the 563A, that's what I played around with most last night. To test the 480p video, I tried "The Fifth Element" (SuperBit) & "Narc" (a DVD I just rented). Both looked excellent. Sharp/detailed & artifact-free. Colors seemed a tad muted, but I may need to recalibrate with Avia. I haven't checked to see if the 563A suffers from the infamous chroma bug yet.

Conclusion
These are my impressions after only 2 hours of playing with the 563A, but so far I'm very happy with this player. It's an awesome universal player, a steal for the price! Can't wait to get home tonight & play around with it some more...

Thanks for your quick impressions!

I get mine on Friday hopefully and can't wait.

I think my first DVD-A purchase will be Fleetwood Mac's Rumours.

Thanks,

Steven

Keep us back-ordered individuals posted!

I just got mine today.

No chroma up-sampling error bug that I can detect so far (haven't tested all of "the" movies yet).

Manual does not confirm analog bass management. No where on the packaging or in the manual is the claim made. So I hooked it up to my receiver with my Outlaw ICBM in between. The speakers can be set to large or small. I set them to large because of the ICBM.

*Please let me know if anyone of you can confirm analog bass management.*

The Video quality appeared to be outstanding for the price. I only tried: The Crow, Spiderman and Star Wars Episode II before having to go to work.

I only had a chance to make sure all disc types worked and they did. Listened to a little from 3 SACDs and they sounded very good. I haven't heard SACD before, only alot of DVD-Audio on other players. It appears, from my very limited listening time, that alot depends on the recording engineer's decisions about what to place where. I hope everyone keeps that in mind when playing both SACD and DVD-Auido titles of different Artists, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure everyone knows that the Pioneer doesn't treat SACDs like, for example, Sony SACD players. Instead of DSD, the Pioneer converts to PCM before D/A conversion. I know that is going to be a deal break for some but I don't have "golden ears" and being able to play both formats with one player and having them both sound pretty damn good is enough for me. Oh, and I only paid $180 too.

No aspect ratio control, of course.

Menus are nice and look pretty cool.

Can't play SVCD like the 663.

Hmmm... might be getting one soon. I don't have a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket and I need a new tied-me-over player until I do.

Looks kind of interesting for the money. I guess I can live with sub-standard SACD decoding for a little while. My Outlaw Model 950 has an 80 Hz analog bass management switch (which I have to use anyway or I get double bass) for its 6 channel analog input, so I should be a-ok there.

Dan

P.S. Anybody here have much experience with Outlaw Audio's interconnect cables? They seem pretty well built for the money and I can get 6 of them for under $100.

Well, I'm gettin' this player just 'cuz it looks like such a good deal.

Dan, I think you might wait to judge the DSD to PCM conversion before you call it sub-standard if you can even tell it as a problem...

I mean in theory it should remain 'real world' perfect if converted from DSD to 24/96 if that's what it does -both have a better noise floor than any player can output anyway, and higher freq. band than anyone can hear, or most speakers can play, etc...

Plus not all SACD's are recorded in DSD in the first place so they're going from PCM to DSD. Is it such a crime to convert back to very high rate PCM again?

Most importantly in actual application... this certainly Ain't a high end player by any means and the audio of CD/DVD-A and SACD should all be poorer than a true high end player.

The power supply and output section of the player will probably make the DSD to PCM conversion irrelevent.

BTW... I also own the Outlaw 950 (and really like you ideas for their next prepro. that was you right? too bad they'll probably take another 3 or 4 years to do it. they're followers not innovators IMO) , and also their audio cables.

The cables are made REALLY well IMO, and OCC copper wire found in much more costly cables. Might double check that they changed the thickness of the ends. The ones I got were from the first run and they're so fat that they slightly rub together on standard RCA jack spacing (which the 950 has). They said they were going to thin it up a bit. Don't know if they ever did.

I haven't seen other cables built this well for this low of price.

Anyway... I'm not a big cable tweaker -I mean open up this Pio DVD player were talking about and look at the POS cheap wiring you'll be connecting these cables too and then think about the FAR greater run of wire in the x-overs in your speakers.
Cables (if worth tweaking at all) are about the last thing to bother with.

I'm probably going to have this player modded by ModWright to get a lot more out of it. That'd be the best first step w/ using this player in anyone's system IMO.

Tested Toy Story, Fifth Element and other movie titles and still haven't seen the chroma bug.

I know Pioneer's video track record at Home Theater High Fidelity is far from steller but so far I'm pleased with the video output which seems just a bit overly sharp.

All my DVD-Audio discs sound great, just like on my other players. DTS-CDs sound the same, of course.

As far as SACD is concerned, I still haven't heard it through a DSD SACD player but I think it sounds better than any CDs I own. But like I prefer DTS over Dolby Digital, I can't just list off all of the reasons I do -- I just do.

One thing I learned about ordering SACDs on-line is to look more closely at the "specs", if you will. When I got the discs, the packaging clearly shows if they are Stereo or Multichannel/Stereo, etc. I could have easily picked out more Multichannel titles at a store.

Like I've alluded to earlier, I'm not an audiophile. I actually prefer multichannel surround music over just "plain" stereo. So I hope I can find more multichannel SACDs that have alot more activity in the surrounds like much of my DVD-Audio titles do. For me better, higher quality stereo is just stereo.

Anyway, I'm still liking this player. I came very close to getting the Denon 2900 (which I really want) when they first came out at Crutchfield and I'm now glad I waited (especailly if you know the 2900's early history).

I could always see the chroma bug on my old Pioneer, especially on the toy story opening logo, the red edges were definitely jagged. The 563 does not have this ?

Well let me recommend Peter White's Glow SACD album. It is a great instrumental album that just shines in multichannel SACD format. I forgot who recommended it to me on this forum (sorry) but it really is a very well done multichannel mix (probably the best of my rather small collection of SACD/DVD-A). I am really happy hearing the good reviews of the player from all of you. I hope someone with a true DSD playing SACD player will pick one up and do a comparison of Direct DSD playing vs the DSD->PCM conversion. But either way enjoy your new player.

Luffy, thanks for the recommendation, I will be trying it.

gman99, I've just looked at the Toy Story logo again, getting right up to the screen (rear-projection) and I don't see any chroma-bug problems.

I have a friend with a very similar TV and the chroma bug is clearly visible using his Sony DVD player.

One reason I got this player from Crutchfield was for their return policy. Good SACD or not, I will not stand for the chroma bug because every player I own and have owned all were without it (hope my luck holds in the future). After reading about the chroma bug for years and then actually seeing it easily with my own eyes on my friends player I can honestly say I could never live with it (got enough 'early adopter/beta tester' problems as it is already). :-)

P.S. just played parts of Toy Story in the Pioneer DV-563A, Panasonic RP-91 and Sungale 8500 back-to-back and they all look very good. Reds and other colors look good around the edges and everywhere

Barring unforeseen circumstances, it looks like this will be my next el-cheapo player to replace my old Toshiba (man, times really have changed when 5 years for an A/V product is considered old!).

azryan,

Yup, that was me on the Outlaw site talking up the new pre-pro features. :)

Good to hear about the Outlaw cables. I too remember they said that the connectors where less fat with the new batch of interconnects. I'll have to try them out. Don't want to use patch cords, yet I don't want to spend a bundle either on 6 analog cables for a "bedroom quality" unit.

Dan

I really wish that someone that is quite experienced in AV equipment, has auditioned higher end equipment, yet not enough snobby to listen to a mainstream unit would try to do a review of this new Pioneer player.

Don, I have a set of 6 copper Outlaw Audio interconnects, as well as their silver digital interconnects that I use as component cables. Copper interconnects are of very good build quality, thick, their new connector although not as thick as the ones in initial batches are still very thick and at times this causes quite a challenge to screw and un-screw them. Actually these connectors are of "screw-on" type, so make sure you loosen the cables prior to connecting them. I am not big fan of this type of connectors though.
As for their silver digital interconnects, well, I am quite disappointed - their connectors are of different type (not the same connectors as on the copper cables), they sit pretty loose in the female RCA plug. I have to put more effort when connecting my other el-cheapo NXG Pro component cables rather than these Outlaws.

My2c.

TauRus,

Maybe you don't mean to , but I think you come close IMO to insulting the guy who was the first to post about this player and has been doing his best to answer what he can.

Yes, we all want to see a review in comparison to true high end gear as that would be a real reference point to comment from, but you've GOT to expect that a $180 DVD player is not going to be the new darling of the very high end audiophile crowd, and most people who will get this player (at least leaving it unmodded) will not have ref. level speakers, amps, and high end pre amps.

I'll post comments when I get the player.

Personally I do have a dedicated audio room, GR Research Alphas (I don't use a center channel), Outlaw 950 pre/pro, and Acoustic Reality eARTwo digital main amp, Newform Research 645 surround speakers, (soon to have) nOrh Le Amp II surround amps, and dual DIY Adire Tempest sonotube subs tuned to 16Hz in their EBS design.

I think it's a fairly high end system -heh.

I'll just have to wait for my Crutchfield order to get here, but I think I'll still have the unit modded if I find it to be a 'base level' of quality worth upgrading to a more high end level. We'll see.

Personally I'd like to hear from Pio 45/47 owners and see what they think of this player in comparison as there's a LOT of 45/47 comments already out there, and a much more realistic reference point than say top of the line Sony SACD player and Meridian DVD-A player on world class gear in carefully treated audio room.

"-Don, I have a-"

His name's Dan not Don.

I don't get what you want from RCA cable connectors?

You seem to have a problem w/ Outlaw's 'screw-on' type which are designed to go on loose so they don't scratch at the connector coatings, but then give a very tight strong connection that won't loosen up when screwed tight.
But... then you also don't like Outlaw's silver cables because they don't have that type of connector and are a bit loose on your other gear's plugs??

There's going to be a slight variation in diff. female RCA plugs, and it just shows how great the screw on connectors are for fitting on any of them w/ a tight connection.

IMO, Outlaw should have stuck w/ those on all their RCA ended cables.

azryan,

I was reading through some Outlaw website threads about the PCA cables until my eyeballs were twirling. :D

So, do you have a clear cut answer as to how you attach them and unscrew them to remove the connector's from the RCA plugs without damaging anything? I guess from the viewpoint of looking at the back of the equipment. "Enquiring" minds wanna know! :)

Wouldn't it have been great if BNC connectors and pure balanced XLR had been the defacto standards for analog?

Dan

pioneer players are easily hackable, region free etc too.


.The 563A's Dolby Digital & DTS quality is as good as the best DVD players I've owned. I tried several reference DVDs & they all sounded great.

VERY MUCH agree!!

It lacks detail, video settings of 45A , like auto 1, auto etc, while 47ai..is over fully tweakable!!

any one? Pls confirm ur video/audio settings? thnx

Can anyone confirm analog bass management?

anyone.....

anyone....

I finally got around to testing for the chroma bug. Like Wesley has already reported, there's no trace of it on the 563A. I tested the "Toy Story" menu as shown in the Secrets' article, plus the "Monsters, Inc." DVD.

Excellent! Now, if DVD-Audio and SACD are just pretty good, I'll be extremely pleased when I get the 563A Wednesday.

Thanks for the updates everyone.

I finally got around to testing for the chroma bug. Like Wesley has already reported, there's no trace of it on the 563A. I tested the "Toy Story" menu as shown in the Secrets' article, plus the "Monsters, Inc." DVD.

Brajesh,

As a point of comparison, what display do you have, and how is the 563 connected?

On my 45A, I do not see the CUE on my main display (Pioneer 533HD, connected with component cables, and running in progressive OR interlaced mode), but if I use the 45A with an older Sony 32" interlaced display (S Video connection), I do see it.

Just curious. There are lots and lots of 45A users that have said that they do not see it, but I trust the Secrets test which conclude that it exists. In the case oif the 45A, it appears that the CUE is masked in my display.

I would be most interested to get a 563 and try it in my rig, buit for now, I will just gather data from current users.

BGL

BGL, I have my 563A connected to a 53" Panny HD RPTV via component cables. I only tried 480p when doing video tests, not 480i.

BGL, I have my 563A connected to a 53" Panny HD RPTV via component cables. I only tried 480p when doing video tests, not 480i.

Thanks.

FWIW, I was unable to see the CUE either way (480i or 480p), which suggests a possible focus issue with my display.

Only on my old interlaced set did I see what I was expecting to see in terms of the test shots from Secrets.

Having said that, the 45A/533 can through up a subjectively wonderful detailed pitcure with good software. Monsters looks great; the fur on Sully's body looks real.

I think at some point it is better to keep one's head in the sand. You stay happy with what you have, and its much cheaper!


BGL

Originally posted by BGLeduc
I think at some point it is better to keep one's head in the sand. You stay happy with what you have, and its much cheaper! I've got 3 Pioneer DVD players and I'm basically surrounded by the CUE. I'm still very happy with the players and I guess my eyes aren't "trained" well enough for the CUE to be a "major" problem for me. :)

I don't consider my "head to be in the sand", but rather that I'm just satisfied with the products I've purchased. :)

Peace...

I should get mine today! What are the input/outputs on this . I've seen conflicting specs. I know it has the 6 channel analog audio outs, but what else?

Outputs:
Composite Video
Component Video (Y,Pb,Pr)
6-channel multichannel analog
Optical digital audio
Coaxial digital audio

No S-Video?

Oops, yes s-video!

How about a spereate stereo pair, in addition to the 6CH outs?

Out of curiosity, do you have any DVD's ecnoded in DD 2.0, which are meant to be decoded in Pro Logic? How does the 563 handle those?

Note: The two questions are related.

I ask this because the 45A lacks a Pro Logic decoder, which means that if you have any 2.0 PL titles, you will need to use the stereo pair, and have your pre/pro or receiver do the PL deocoding.

If the 563 does NOT have a seperate stereo pair, you could simply use a Y connector on the main L&R channels, and run those into another input on your pre/pro.

Just trying to see what was carried over from the 45A (if anything), and what was done differently.

BGL

Originally posted by BGLeduc
How about a spereate stereo pair, in addition to the 6CH outs?I would be VERY surprised if it didn't. Pioneer DVD players tend to come with a fairly complete set of outputs. I own the Pioneer DV-656a (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetails/0,1422,71365,00.html) and if the DV-563a has connections similar to the DV-656a, you should have almost all of the outputs you would need (minus DVI or similiar kinds of outputs).


Out of curiosity, do you have any DVD's ecnoded in DD 2.0, which are meant to be decoded in Pro Logic? How does the 563 handle those?

Note: The two questions are related.

I ask this because the 45A lacks a Pro Logic decoder, which means that if you have any 2.0 PL titles, you will need to use the stereo pair, and have your pre/pro or receiver do the PL deocoding. I'm not sure I follow. I have a coax digital cable connecting my DV-656a to my Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX A/V receiver. When I play DD 2.0 or Pro-Logic DVDs, my receiver's "speaker config" lights light up accordingly. With a DD 2.0 title, I get a "stereo" configuration. With Pro-Logic titles, I get a "stereo" config with a rear-channel indicator.

What am I missing here?

Peace...

BGLeduc, yes on the stereo pair. I believe you can set the player to 2-channel and Dolby Digital, DTS and MPEG audio is downmixed to two channels to then be processed by your receiver. DTS downmix can be set further with an option for Stereo or Lt/Rt. DVD's in DD 2.0 should pass through unaffected through the stereo pair output to be correctly handled by a receiver.

I believe your correct in that the output is meant to be decoded in Pro Logic (Pro Logic II) by the receiver and that the receiver will detect the signal as such. The 563A also has what the manual calls "Virtual Dolby Digital using SRS TruSurround" which is explains further as "SRS TruSurround creates a realistic surround-sound effect from ANY Dolby Digital or Pro Logic encoded source using just two speakers. SRS TruSurround is a process certified by Dolby Laboratories for Virutal Dolby Digital Sound..."

PIONEER/SONY..will never cut corners on FEATURES!

I'm not sure I follow. I have a coax digital cable connecting my DV-656a to my Pioneer Elite VSX-24TX A/V receiver. When I play DD 2.0 or Pro-Logic DVDs, my receiver's "speaker config" lights light up accordingly

I am sure you are correct WRT to the digital connection, my question pertains to what signals are present on the 6CH analog outs when you have a DVD that is 2.0 or 2.1 that is meant for PL decoding.

The 45A, simply sends the 2.0 signals straight out the L&R pair. It has no means to decode then into L/C/R plus surround. FWIW, it does not say that it will do PL in the specs. I incorrectly assumed that if a device would do DD, it would also do PL. Not the case, at least with the 45A. It does DD, DTS, DVD-A, and SACD, but does NOT do PL.

I have an old-school receiver that is PL only and has no digital inputs. It does, however, have a 6CH analog input, which is how the 45A connects. I intended for the 45A to handle ALL decoding duties in my rig, but since it will not do PL, I need to connect the analog stereo pair to an input of the receiver, and invoke PL on that.

Since the 6CH inputs on the receiver are straight through with no processing (as they are on many receivers), I can not invoke PL in cases where the software is 2.0 or 2.1, etc.

This is a total non-issue for most users that connect digitally to their receiver or pre/pro. Those users will do all DD, DTS, and PL decoding there, and only use the 563 for DVD-A and SACD.

As an aside, if you have a DD 1.0 disc (my daughter has some Scooby Doo that are 1.0), you will get nothing out the stereo pair, since it just mimics the L&R channels. In that case, you DO need to use the 6CH outs, in order to hear what is on the disc (in that case, only the Center channel).

For some aditional weirdness, the Scooby Doo Original Mysteries DVD has the audio for the menus in 2.0, but the individual episodes are 1.0. When I was using the stero pair, I was hearing the menu music, but as soon as the shows started, I lost audio and had to switch to the 6CH in.

BGL

Originally posted by BGLeduc
I am sure you are correct WRT to the digital connection, my question pertains to what signals are present on the 6CH analog outs when you have a DVD that is 2.0 or 2.1 that is meant for PL decoding. Ah... that's what I was missing! :)

I guess you would be using the DD/dts decoders in the player and the player doesn't have a DPL decoder on-board. Gotcha.

Thanks for clearing that up for me! :)

Peace...

The CUE bug does exist on the 45a, 47a, and 47ai. It's also nice
to see a an inexpensive universal player finally come out.

quote:
"I'm still very happy with the players and I guess my eyes aren't "trained" well enough for the CUE to be a "major" problem for me. "
end quote

I have a 47ai and I know what the CUE error looks like. You have to look
hard to see it and when it does appear it usually doesn't "stick around"
for very long at all. Not a big deal.

EE is far far far more obnoxious and prevalent, and there's nothing
one can do about it.


larry

Just received my 563A today. Hooked it up, set it up, and the first DVD looks horrible.

I'm getting some choppy movement up and down on slow scenes. My perfect example is Monsters Inc disk 2 - Mike's New Car. While they're sitting there and Scully is moving the seat up and down, the grill on the car right in the middle of the screen (under the windshield) jumps up and down a scan line or two -- it looks like it goes in and out of focus. I thought I was losing my mind till I hooked up the old Panasonic RP62 and it was sharp and steady. The motion goes away when I turn off progressive, but of course the rest of the image stinks.

Has anyone else noticed this behavior?

This is hooked up to a Mitsubishi 73909 with component video (tried both imputs).

I'm so depressed.

-Brian

I dont know if Monster is film or video, but sounds like the player is either locked into the wrong mode, the disc is improperly flagged, or possibly one of your componet connections are out of place.

Eek! Well, I get mine tomorrow, and even though I will be working nights for the next couple of days, I will sacrifice some sleep to try out the new toy. I'll report back soon!

jumps up and down a scan line or two

That's a common problem with Disney discs and certain progressive deinterlacer chipsets. More information can be found at Secrets'
2002/2003 DVD Player Shootout (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=5). Search the text of the page for "Disney" for more info.

Monsters has the 3:2 ALT flag issue.

FWIW, the 45A handles the deinterlacing on Monsters fine, although it is said to show the CUE.

I am not sure what you are describing. It does not sound like combing.

Does the 563 have the option to turn Pure Cinema On/Off/Auto?

If so, I would try turning it On. The Monsters DVD should be flagged as film, so turning PC off would NOT be the answer.

On a Disney disc that has a really screwed up flag (101 Dalmatians II) I need to turn Pure Cinema Off to avoid combing.

Hopefully the 563 gives you that option.

BGL

Where's the best place to buy a 563A, anyway (besides Crutchfield)? Are they all selling them for around $180? Thanx!

Dan

Dan,

It seems that every authorized dealer is selling the 563A for about $179. It makes me wonder why, when the original list was supposed to be about $250! I'm not complaining, just curious.

Also, Crutchfield seems to be getting the units in faster than other dealers. I originally ordered from Audioadvisor, but they still haven't received any.



James

James R. Geib: the 563A is suppose to be $180, Pioneer said at CES that there would be a $250 version with HDMI.

Wesley,

There were numerous early reports on the 563A that listed approximately $250 as the list price, including one of Pioneer's own links.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/CompanyOverview/PressDetails/0,1479,92763,00.html

Regardless, I am happy with the $180 list!!

James

No Pure Cinema options that I can find to adjust (other than turning off progressive scan completely).

What really irks me is my old player works just fine on Monsters, Inc. (RP62), but the newest, "everything but the kitchen sink" replacement, screws up on one of the most popular DVDs around.

I never noticed these kinds of difficulties with the older player -- even though I had heard of problems with improperly flagged material.

Fifth Element looks great, but I'm still very annoyed. Don't they use real-world material to test their products? I've even read about some of the electronic companies building fixes into the firmware for certain popular titles.

I guess I'm just disappointed that I'm going to have to keep 2 players around to get past the problem. It's not like I spent large sums of money, or anything, but still, you'd think someone would have tried it out.

-Brian

Don't they use real-world material to test their products?

If you have not done so, read the various articles at the Secrets site about their test criteria, and the overall state of progressive scan players.

It is the most eductaional series of aticles that I have read on the subject of DVD performance criteria.

As for the problem at hand, were you able to try turning PC off? That would cause the player to incorrectly convert the DVD (there would be no 3:2 detection/conversion) but it may prevent the artifact that you are seeing, at the expense of a softer image.

Another question is regarding your display. Does it have its own deinterlacer? If so, you might try setting the 563 to interlaced, and let the TV handle the deinterlacing.

BGL

I can't find an option to turn PC off. Only an Interlaced/Progressive switch.

The TV does have its own deinterlacer, but it doesn't do nearly the job the old DVD player did, or the 563A does when the DVD is flagged right.

Guess I better dust off zoom player again.


Thanks for the suggestions.

-Brian

NO, TWEAKING on 563A!!

Is there not a setting in the menu of the player to set progressive mode for film or video??

My JVC has this feature which when set to film or video lock the player into that mode and ignores the flags.

NOPE!! to my DISLIKENING..NONE!! Why? I dont know!! I did not see!!

Is there a link to a PDF file for the manual?

Dan

Originally posted by bpmmmm
What really irks me is my old player works just fine on Monsters, Inc. (RP62), but the newest, "everything but the kitchen sink" replacement, screws up on one of the most popular DVDs around.
Didn't Monster's Inc cause the Denon DVD-2900 to exhibit the CUE or some other artifact?

Peace...

This is the price points mentioned at CES by SMR:

Implementing both SACD and DVD-Audio decoder chips in a single player usually catapults the retail price to the $1,000 mark or higher. So how can Pioneer electronics offer a universal player for under $200? Due out by mid-year, the company’s new DV-563A progressive scan DVD-Video/Audio player can also play SACD discs by internally converting SACD’s native DSD bitstream to PCM prior to D/A conversion and analog output. Although such a conversion will doubtless alarm SACD purists on principle, SMR’s resident technical encyclopedia, Andre Yew, claims the crossover from one high resolution format to another is potentially facilitated by DSD’s design: “DSD was designed originally to archive Sony/Columbia’s recorded legacy, and to be easily decimated to any conceivable PCM sampling rate, so they’d just have to do one analog to digital conversion for their entire catalog, and then decimate appropriately as different PCM distribution methods came to market.”


Of course, whether Pioneer’s implementation decimates or preserves the audio quality of SACD sources remains to be heard. What’s in no doubt, however, is that the entry fee for a little toe dipping in both formats will get dramatically more affordable. For around $250, Pioneer also plans to also offer an “upmarket” DV-663 version that adds HDMI output A no-frills version, the DV-463, will offer neither SACD, DVD-Audio nor on-board bass management. On a hopeful note, although the dreaded words “chroma bug” are still not part of Pioneer’s official vocabulary, Gary Bauhard acknowledged the company has been evaluating MPEG decoders. [Philip Brandes]

Apparently, according to a press release from Philips today, the new Pioneers are using their SACD chip solution. Here's a exerpt:

"Royal Philips Electronics (NYSE:PHG)(AEX:PHI) today announced that Pioneer Corporation (NYSE:PIO) will use Philips' Super Audio CD (SACD) single-chip solution, the SAA7893HL chip. Pioneer will integrate Philips' SAA7893HL chip into its DVD Player (DV-563A-S) and Home Theater System (HTZ-830DV) targeted at the U.S. market, providing consumers with sound quality superior to that of a CD. SACD is a key feature for multichannel audio in DVD players, and Philips' SAA7893HL chip is the ideal semiconductor solution to seamlessly and cost-effectively add SACD capabilities to DVD devices.

Philips' SAA7893HL chip is a flexible and cost-effective single-chip hardware and software solution offering complete SACD functionality, avoiding the need for continual redesign and re-integration of SACD into various applications. The SAA7893HL chip can support many different DVD platforms because of the integrated multiple loader and host interfaces. It enables manufacturers to introduce DVD video players that can support six-channel SACD and DVD-A playback. The six-channel DAC outputs of the DVD host are routed via the chip, which provides a DAC switch function between SACD mode and DVD mode. Offering a complete solution, including Annex J+ level SW API, the SAA7893HL chip also incorporates a full SACD software stack."

With my 563A, Monster, Inc. the movie looks great. The Mike's New Car does not. Still don't see the CUE (at least on my RP set in progressive or interlaced mode anyway). I have not tried Mike's New Car in interlaced mode to see what my television can do with it yet.

I still have to hold on to my older players for a little longer I guess for certain movies. I tell ya' though, they are getting long in the tooth as far as electronics go but I just can't seem to find the ULTIMATE replacement.

Still love the 563A anyway though. It and my Sungale 8500 work flawlessly the vast majority of the time and they are both taking much of the "work load" off of my RP-91 and 723. Hopefully, that will give them two more life -- they are both over 2 years old now I think.

Also, using my RP-91 to test the segment mentioned above, I remember it is in 4:3 thanks to the RP-91's aspect ratio control on my lock in full TV. Just one more reason to start olding on to older equipment and not selling it for the lastest and greatest right away.

Dan,

I believe Pioneer now has a brief product feature list on the U.S. site but no detailed list or manual availible...

Not sure if I'll get one of these now. As these movies (Pixar) are really big w/ myself and the kids and I don't wan't "Finding Nemo" to look terrible when that arrives.

There must be some way to force Progressive or Pioneer must have some way to do a firmware upgrade to add the option should they have missed it... shouldn't they?

Miles

Thanks you for that very valueable information mroll.

Hi, mike/mroll..are u planning to check out pioneer 563a, for review..availability?

Originally posted by zoro
Hi, mike/mroll..are u planning to check out pioneer 563a, for review..availability?

Yes, as soon as my supplier gets them in. Right now they're limited in availability. I'm impressed so far with the reports that indicate that Pioneer has finally killed the chroma bug in one of their players.

Has anyone checked the deinterlacing quality with the VE or Faroudja test disk?

I have VE? any instructions?

Check the flag waving scene. I believe it's in the Montage of Images. I don't have the VE disc, but I believe there's some other scenes in there as well.

Yes, as soon as my supplier gets them in. Right now they're limited in availability. I'm impressed so far with the reports that indicate that Pioneer has finally killed the chroma bug in one of their players.

Not to be a turd in the punch bowl, but there are a lot of reviews that say the same thing about the 45A too.

I still don't see it with my 45A on my WS Pioneer, but definetly see it with my 32" Sony in interlaced mode. As Don Munsil once advised, there are many, many things that can hide the CUE.

I too would welcome the news that they got it right. One needs to have a thick skin to own a current Pioneer DVD player, I am afraid.

BGL

Yes, as soon as my supplier gets them in. Right now they're limited in availability. I'm impressed so far with the reports that indicate that Pioneer has finally killed the chroma bug in one of their players.

Not to be a turd in the punch bowl, but there are a lot of reviews that say the same thing about the 45A too.

I still don't see it with my 45A on my WS Pioneer dispaly (533HD), but definetly see it with my 32" Sony in interlaced mode. As Don Munsil once advised, there are many, many things that can hide the CUE.

I too would welcome the news that they got it right. One needs to have a thick skin to own a current Pioneer DVD player, I am afraid.

BGL

Bass management for analog outputs confirmed!

This is quite a surprise to me. I thought you folks were expecting too much to think that something this cheap might have it, but it does.

Just a rudimentary test, but playing through the Pioneer's analog outputs to the 5.1 external inputs on my pre-pro, I put on the "Dark Side Of The Moon" SACD and turned my subwoofer amplifier *off*. With all speakers set to "small" in the player's audio menu, the heartbeat sound at the beginning of the disc has no discernable bass through the mains, center, or surround speakers. Conversely, with all speakers set to "large" in the Pioneer's audio menu, the bass is definitely coming through the mains, center, and surrounds.

I don't know where the filters are set or what slopes are used, but it's working pretty darned well and the disc sounds amazing. Easily as good as the "Yes" DVD-A disc I played and as good as the Panasonic CP-72 I used before, but then it's impossible to make a perfect comparison without identical test material or a rapid A/B between the two units. The Panny died so I can't A/B at all with it.

Anyway, with DVD-V the picture looks as good to me as the Panasonic did on my Toshiba 57HX81 TV, but then I don't watch animated films so I can't test that.

This thing is a killer IMO and I'm quite delighted. Those of you who are more "Secrets-centric" than I about video quality may not find it perfect for your rig, but I'm stunned and can't believe what I got for $179.

I was really HOPEFUL for PIONEER! being A BETTER QUALITY ORIENTED COMPANY, ESP ON VIDEO FRONT!IMHO

Originally posted by bigwally
Anyway, with DVD-V the picture looks as good to me as the Panasonic did on my Toshiba 57HX81 TV, but then I don't watch animated films so I can't test that. Wow... thanks for posting this. I feel the same way about my Pioneer DV-656a and Panasonic XP-30 connected to my Toshiba 57HX81. I feel "validated" now. :)

Man, with all this discussion I think I'm gonna give this player a shot. Any ideas on when the DV-663a will hit the street and how much that will cost?

Peace...

Well, 663, would be my pick, too, but no info, any where? so far!!

crutchfield said, wont be carrying? check, with local pioneer dealers..

but, all thing considered, i will be going for replacement elite universal..ultimately..

Got my 563A today, but haven't had a chance to hook it up, as I'm working the night shift this week. Tonight I get to memorize the owner's manual. One interesting thing to note...

The owner's manual came with a few corrections on a separate piece of paper, and the corrections applied to both the 563A and the DV-667A.

667A?? I can't find any information on that model. Anyone have any ideas? Is the 667A the upcoming model with DVI, and not the 663A?? Just thought I'd throw that out.

James

667 is the taiwanese model of the 563

Ah, thanks Sathyan! Makes sense now.

I tried, Montage, flag on VE..picture looks pretty stable, on bridge, stadium, flags..did not see any jaggies?

Pioneer 563 is awesome!! NO CHROMA BUG, and believe me I am intimately familiar with it. Nice, sharp picture. DVD-A and SACD performance impressive. Toy Story looks great. Looks like it has bass management, you can set speaker distance and sizes, but I have it piped thru my Outlaw ICBM. Looks like my XP50 is going on Ebay.

Grant

Anyone with the 563A using it with an AVM20?? If so, how do you have your's connected??

Well I got my 563A two days ago. I only have a 25inch tv but I am very impressed with it. Since I don't have a larger tv it is had for me to evaluate that portion. So far it has played everything I have thrown at it. DVD, SACD, DVD Audio, MP3 and JPEGS just like advertised. It has also played a few of DVD's that gave my Fisher player fits. I really bought this player since it plays SACD's and DVD Audio. I only have one of each but I have played each one both evenings. The DVD Audio to me doesn't sound as sharp as the SACD to me but that is my opinion. The DVD Audio I have is called Sonic Boom and it is a sampler disc and has classic pieces and some jazz with a variety of test tones. Apparently I am almost deaf in a certain range or I relly need to calibrate my system. I need to get the SPL meter from my wife who has it in her Physics classroom. The one SACD I have is Dark Side of the Moon. I am really impressed with how it sounds. I was thinking that the sounds would be completly seperated to each speaker but I have only ever heard SACD once before but I was really impressed. I am sure it depends on how it was mixed. I do hear seperation of the sounds but at times it seems to melt from one speaker to the next. Pretty wild I must say. But for an average guy with a normal tv I must say this player works really good. I especially like the 5.1 outputs and since my Onkyo had one set of these inputs I am in heaven. I just wish they could put more space between the RCA jacks. It's crowded in there. But as an entry level unit I would give it a big thumbs up. 1st post here also.

bigwally, thank you for confirming analog bass management. I really wanted confirmation before unpluging my Outlaw ICBM. Today, I'll try connecting my 563A directly to my receiver and hope for the best.

This $180 player keeps getting better and better in my opinion dispite its few flaws.

I picked up my 563-A yesterday and got it hooked up. I only have a Sony 27" (no Svideo or Componenet) so I can't comment on PQ too much.

It seems to be a very nice quiet, well constructed, sleek. I have to out today and be a DVD-Audio disc and don't yet have any SACD's so can't comment on music quality either.

I did try a CD with jpegs on it from my Sony digicam. They are 4 megapixel images (about 1.5 meg each). There is a navigator interface where you can few thumbnails of the images or you can do a full screen slideshow. The slideshow is fixed at about 10 secs. or so and doesn't appear to be changeable. The images are very slow, very slow, very slow (did I say slow?!?!) to changeover, again no customization available. But I didn't buy it primarily for this so I'm ok with it.

Someone earlier asked about Progressive output and film vs. video or something like that? The only option related to anything like this is progressive vs. interlace output for the component output.

For $260 CDN I think this player is a great deal considering all it can do so I'm quite pleased. I would be very disappointed if the 663 comes out soon with HDMI for not too much more.

Steven

Wesley, you may not want to ditch the ICBM just yet. The Pioneer's bass management seems to be doing something less that kicking down Outlaw's door. With SACD anyway.

Excerpts from a discussion at HTF: (my moniker is Walt N. there)

Me:

Seems the bass management is a little quirky on this unit like the other Pioneers. While playing around with the Jeff Beck "Blow By Blow" SACD, I set all speakers to small with sub on, but it didn't seem to sum and redirect the bass to the subwoofer. Hmmm. You can definitely hear the bass being subtracted from the mains, center, and surrounds...but it seems to be disappearing off the face of the earth instead of going where it needs to go. Weird.

Response:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One, Blow by Blow is not the most bass heavy SACD on the planet. I actually played it yesterday, and it can't hold a candle to other hi-rez recordings of similar vintage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Me:

True enough, too bad though. The tonal balance on the CD is very nice. With hi-rez recordings one needs to toggle sub volume from disc to disc as if playing Nintendo. +10dB on the sub is working OK for this one, but as you mentioned all high-rez discs need some boost. Initial calibration was with AVIA.

As mentioned, +10db is OK... but not good, because of the apparent lack of bass summing and steering to the sub with speakers set to "small". With the "small" setting on all sat's, the bass audibly cuts off at whatever freq. they used (surely too high) and that seems to be it. The Pioneer SACD BM simply isn't getting the job done by adding thickness to the mix via sub like BM on a pre-pro or receiver will do with DD or DTS material.

Very preliminary finding: ICBM may still be required unless your speakers are 6' tall, say Dunlavy, VMPS, or Legacy on them, and your configuration and room can allow you to optimize deep bass from such disparate locations.

I'll have to play around with DVD-A material and see it it's any different.

Thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150437&pagenumber=3

We are talking about <$200 player, even, if it works perfect, with ICBM, still, is a DEAL!

Originally posted by zoro
We are talking about <$200 player, even, if it works perfect, with ICBM, still, is a DEAL!

Absolutely. Given the timeline of technology for universal players, I was surprised they even took a stab at BM given this price of admission.

In all other regards I remain impressed.

This $180 player keeps getting better and better in my opinion dispite its few flaws.
Yep.

Tested some more DVD-A titles yesterday (Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors" & Eagles' "Hotel California) & this player's quality is very good. I still think it isn't quite up to the Panny RP91/RP82/CP72 DVD-A caliber, but it's close.

bigwally - Thanks for all your input about the bass management. Do you know if it can be configured with large fronts and small everything-else, and sub=NO?

The Rhino DVD-Audio title Alice Cooper "Billion Dollar Babies" has a video interview that doesn't seem to play on my DV-563A. Since I don't have a different player unit to test with I'm not sure if it's a disc or player related problem.

The behavior I'm seeing is when I select the 'Video Interview' from the main menu on the disc, I get the screen and graphic, but the up/down arrow keys don't seem to have any affect and eventually the 'Top' menu button lights up and the screen returns to the main menu on the disc. I've tried all sorts of things but nothing I do seems to make the interview play.

I can't seem to find any reviews of this DVD-A which either confirm or deny that the video interview actually does/can play in another DVD-A player, though I suspect that would be a big enough software bug that it would have been mentioned somewhere by now. Actually I guess I'm kind of hoping it *is* a disc related bug versus a bug in the DV-563A......

Please confirm or deny if you can....

I haven't yet tried using the setting to get the 563 to read a DVD-A disc as a DVD-V but I will tonight. This direction seems counter intuitive to me though since the disc specifically says the video interview is only accessible on a DVD-A player......

--Don

The Rhino DVD-Audio title Alice Cooper "Billion Dollar Babies" has a video interview that doesn't seem to play on my DV-563A. Since I don't have a different player unit to test with I'm not sure if it's a disc or player related problem.

LOOK in the menue, there is way to set it up!! i am sure!!

My love affair with my 563A hit a signficant bump in the road on its second evening (quite a brief honeymoon) when I tried to play my newly purchased Getz/Gilberto (Verve) SACD. It's the only disc I have that's SACD only, that has no redbook layer. The player read it as a DVD (that front-panel display is handy), and refused to play it no matter how much I pushed the play button. I tried to eject it, and the player hung--it said "open" on the panel, but nothing happened. Finally I pulled the power cord, and after powering back up again the player ejected the disc. I didn't dare try it again. Has anyone had a similar experience? Tried the 563A with an SACD-only disc?

DM,

I have 3 SACD-only discs, and each one has played with no problem on my 563A.

James

Originally posted by zoro
LOOK in the menue, there is way to set it up!! i am sure!!

Sorry, I guess I don't know exactly what you mean by set it up and/or whether you're referring to a menu for the 563A or the DVD-A title itself.

In the Initial Settings menu on the 563A I've left the DVD Playback Mode at the default DVD-Audio setting. The manual doesn't describe the logic behind the DVD-Video setting and/or under what conditions one might want to use that. I've still yet to try it though to see if it magically allows the video to play. Even if it did I'd still call that a problem/bug. I definitely want the unit to play DVD-A discs as (surprise) DVD-A discs.......

I have confirmed the video interview on 'Billion Dollar Babies' is known to play fine on a Toshiba 4700 DVD-A capable player. So, unless in the unlikely event my copy has some weird isolated problem, anyone with this disc should see the problem on their 563A. I'm just waiting for the confirmations of the first bug report to come flooding in ;)

--Don

You have to set it there as dvd video, if u wana see video part of dvd audio..that was my understanding reading that part..

give it a try!!I think, it will work..

Originally posted by zoro
You have to set it there as dvd video, if u wana see video part of dvd audio..that was my understanding reading that part..

give it a try!!I think, it will work..

Yep, will try it, but again, that makes no logical sense to me.

On other DVD-A discs with DVD-A specific video content such as Foreigner's two titles, the videos plays fine with the aforementioned default 563A setting.

It sounds like you don't have any discs with video content to test with....

--Don

No, I dont!~!

I tried to play my newly purchased Getz/Gilberto (Verve) SACD. It's the only disc I have that's SACD only, that has no redbook layer. The player read it as a DVD (that front-panel display is handy), and refused to play it no matter how much I pushed the play button.

Well, I tried it again today and it played, though with one brief hiccup. Perhaps it's the disc that's bad.

This player is my first venture into sacd and dvda. I have this player hooked up with analog and coax to my Pioneer vsx-710s receiver. While playing a dvda, I can switch between the coax and the analog input on the receiver. When I do this, the coax generally sounds a lot better (fuller). Is this because the coax input allows the reciever to process and manage the bass? I've changed the players sub trim to +6 (the max) while leaving the other channels at 0.

That brings up another concern...the player's bass management. I agree with the previous post that this player doesn't redirect bass to the sub output, it justs cuts it off! I think I'll buy the HK AVR-525 which allows bass management of the analog inputs.

On the other hand, this player's video looks great..Best I've seen on my Toshiba 50H82.

Any comments......?

When you switch between the analog and coax you are most likely getting
2 different "recordings". DD or DTS via coax and the DVD-A 96/24
(or whatever format, possibly MLP) decoded and sent out
the analog outputs. It's possible that it is a bass management issue
or it could be that the 710 has better DACs etc that make the "inferior"
DD or DTS track sound better. For a sub $200 DVD-A/SACD player,
you're not going to get the greatest electronics for decoding DVD-A
and SACD.

larry

For a $179 player, it's great. Go get an Outlaw ICBM to address bass management. You won't be sorry.

I've got the 563A connected to my AVM20, and for a cheap universal, I am thrilled with the performance. NO lack of bass whatsoever, and a lot of DVD soundtracks sound better than on my older Panny player. There really seems to be more detail in the sound for movies that I am intimately familiar with.

SACD and DVD-Audio sound pretty good, but not as good as some higher-end models I've borrowed. I didn't expect the performance of an XA777ES at $180!

The picture on my old 35" RCA is excellent. I'm hoping it works great on my Samsung 567W when I get it, but that may be awhile.

All in all, for a player that costs this little and plays SACD, DVD-A and DVDs, I don't think it can be beat. This will be my player until it breaks. Then I'll get what ever the newest, greatest DVI-equipped, 1080i universal is!

Very happy with this unit.

Just to make sure nobody misunderstands me, I'm not "putting down"
the 563a. Like I said earlier, I think it's great that a universal player
is now so affordable. More people will be able to buy them creating
a bigger demand for DVD-A and SACD which will hopefully cause
more titles to be released. Nobody loses! DVD-A and SACD (especially
DSD recorded material) can be a very big - and welcome - improvement
over CD audio.

larry

Will it do DTS 24/96 multichannel ?

Chaz.ca,

No. No player does this format internally. You have to have a receiver or pre-amp with that feature on-board, and send the DTS bitstream to the decoder via the player's digital audio output.

Besides, if you have DVD-Audio or SACD software you would have no need of that format anyway. That is unless the studios start putting out DVD movies using DTS 96/24.

Dan

For a $179 player, it's great. Go get an Outlaw ICBM to address bass management. You won't be sorry.

For more demanding audience..agree!! way to go..still, wont break the bank..i wont like to do, for >1000 player..

Here the inside of my new 563A for you curious/tweakers out there. No comments on sound/picture quality as yet. I'm the sort of person who has to open one up first. :cool:

Any comments? on what u see inside!

What is this rumor I hear about SACD II? If this is real information, then wouldn't this throw a possible monkey wrench into current SACD-only and universal players?

The guts look like any other cheapo, $100 and under player on the market. They didn't even shield the A/V circuitry from the power supply board and transformer.

Dan

I'm not bashing this player. At this price point, it brought me into high resolution audio and hopefully many others. Dvd-a sounds amazing any way you slice it. I just need to find a store that carries more music titles! I can only find maybe 5 to 7 titles that I would buy. I don't understand why the record companies are not pushing these formats more. Especially since they are crying about downloaded music. I would think the record companies would be pushing these like theres no tomorrow since they can't be copied. I think they should release every SACD in a hybrid format to push the transition. By the way, my Pink Floyd hybrid didn't play in my car CD player!

My Pink Floyd hybrid played fine in my 98 4Runner. What year is your car??

relder, thank you for the photograph, it's great. It's amazing how integrated DVD players have become - even with the 563A's inclusion of DVD-Audio & SACD!

I certainly see enough room for a 5 disc tray in that picture ;)

my Pink Floyd SACD didn't play in my 95 Olds. Oh-well.

Uh ohh out comes the 'S' model (http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/#1058946136)

Originally posted by Woodsea
Uh ohh out comes the 'S' model (http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/#1058946136)

Which may mean nothing more than just a cheaper way for them to make them.
There is nothing there, that's says it will be a better way, only that it will be a easier/cheaper way to build them.

"SACD is a key feature for multichannel audio in DVD players, and Philips' SAA7893HL chip is the ideal semiconductor solution to seamlessly and cost-effectively add SACD capabilities to DVD devices."

Originally posted by Woodsea
Uh ohh out comes the 'S' model

It appears the S model is the is the standard model. My box has an S on it and the back of the unit does too, though the front omits the S. It also has that Phillips chip the article mentions (SAA7893HL), so I think there's just one model (In the U.S. anyway.)

BTW, it also has one Burr Brown DSD1791 and two DSD1702EG DACs. According to the chip specs they can take both DSD and PCM. So I'm guessing rumors that the 563A converts DSD to PCM are false (excepts perhaps for bass management.) One of these days when I begin to void the warranty :eek: I'll put it on a scope and see if indeed data is coming in the DSDL and DSDR pins. I can't imagine Pioneer not using the DSD capability of these chips.

So far the player is a definate improvement from my previous one which may not be saying much since my old player didn't have component output much less progressive, and it also couldn't do DTS (it's an old 1st generation DVD/LD player.) Those two features alone make it quite an improvement. Will play with SACD and DVD-A soon.

One annoyance I discovered is that the JPEG mode assumes a 4:3 TV. On a widescreen everyone looks fat.

The "S" designation means it's silver in color. "K" would be black.



Originally posted by Woodsea
Uh ohh out comes the 'S' model (http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/#1058946136)

RE: the Philips chipset used, this document (http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/SAA7893HL_C2.html) at the Philips site, particularly the diagram at the bottom, seems to suggest that BM must be done in DSD domain, not PCM, although it does come w/ a converter that looks to be aimed at allowing player makers to cut corners and output to PCM-only DACs. If the player has DSD DACs, then there should be no reason why it would do any DSD->PCM conversion at all. OTOH, this doesn't mean that BM (and other channel management processing) will be perfect.

_Man_

Just an FYI that I had a similar problem to one already mentioned... I was playing my Pink Floyd DSOTM disc and tried to open the tray... and the 563 froze w/ OPEN showing on the display. The only way to correct the issue was to unplug the player.

could someone tell me what "cue" is. It seem to be an important topic in this forum.

OK guys, I need some help with my new 563A.

I hooked everything up to my Elite VSX-49 and all played fine. I bought 1 each DVD-Audio and a SACD to try. Both initally played fine but now I can't get any audio at all from the SACD!!!

I have everything hooked up so I'm at a loss as to what changed. I mean I have the digital co-ax, the standard audio left and right and also the 5.1 connectors. I've been over the settings dozens of times and can't figure out what's wrong.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Lee

Lee,

If you're definitely choosing the correct source (2 channel input, if it's a two channel SACD) on your receiver, then I can't say what might be wrong.

If both your SACD and DVD-audio discs are multi-channel, and you have the multi-channel input selected as the input to your receiver, then you go into the menu of the DVD player and change SACD to read 2 channel, that may prevent any output from the multi-channel outs on the DVD player.

Do you have both stereo out an multi-channel outputs from the DVD player connected to your receiver??

Edit: Well, I just selected SACD to play the 2 channel track and it outputs on both the stereo and multi-channel outputs of the DVD player, so scratch that theory!

I'm not sure now what it could be.

Well I don't own a 563, but maybe it is a bug of some type. Have you tried unplugging the machine for a few minutes then plugging it back in? That should reset the machine.

I guess I'll have to chalk this one up to "The learning curve."

All I needed to do was change the input on the receiver to 5.1 input and it works great. Silly me...I thought I'd get audio from everything by just pressing play.

Thanks for the help guys.

Lee

Lee,

Glad it was nothing more than that! Enjoy your music, and get Eric Clapton's DVD-Audio Riding with the King if you like Clapton's and B.B. King's style!

James

What do you guys have your speakers/sub settings at? I have small satellite speakers & a sub, so mine's set at speakers "small" & sub "on". I haven't figured out if that's best yet. With Bowie's "Heathen" SACD, I get great bass; with 3 Doors Down's "Away from the Sun" SACD, I hardly get any bass. Maybe it's the recording themselves to some degree?

With DVD-A, when I first reviewed the 563A, I found it lacked the 'oomph' my previous Panny RP91 & CP72 did. I now think it wasn't really the sound quality that was lacking, but maybe bass. Need to figure out the best settings to get proper bass directed to the sub.

Brajesh,
The "mixes" of any DVD-A/SACD can vary. It's hard to compare two
different titles. I was just listening to "Heathen" last night. It
is a "in your face" mix. Very "loud", and Tony Visconti makes use
of all channels. I can see why you might get more bass from it.

larry

Heathen has most of the bass in the .1 channel. As such, a normal "small sats + sub" set up will sound fine. In fact, Heathen is quite bass heavy, putting aside where the bass is mixed.

However, if there are BM problems in a player, a disc with a lot of the bass in the main channels and little in the .1 (the DVD-A of Hotel California, title track, for example) will sound very weak.

FTR, HC has great bass and kick drum on the title cut. If you are not hearing that, something ain't right.

Based on Brajesh's experience, as well as a few other reports, there seems to be something not quite right with the BM in the 563.

I don't have one, but recommended it to a friend, and she bought it. If this thing lacks BM on SACD and DVD-A, that is going to suck.

Someone with some additional software (Chesky stuff mixed in 4.0 for example) is going to need to do some more scientific testing to understand what this thing does, and what it does not do.

Needing a $250 ICBM for a $178 player is NOT going to go over well. Cripes, I was pissed to have to do it for my $480 (at the time) 45A.

BGL

I guess I need some clarification before I make a move:

Does the 563A with speakers set to LARGE and subwoofer output ON, send out via the 5.1 analog outputs whatever is on the SACD and DVD-Audio discs with no alterations?

That's all I need to know as I will be doing analog bass management elsewhere.

I know the 563A is not perfect when it comes to progressive scan, but right now I'll only be able to use the interlaced mode anyway.

Dan

I did try the Eagles' "Hotel Cafifornia" DVD-A title track & it had decent bass on the 563A. I don't recall if it was primarily coming from the main speakers or the sub. I need to do some more tests when I get home, maybe put my ears close to the sub.

I did try the Eagles' "Hotel Cafifornia" DVD-A title track & it had decent bass on the 563A. I don't recall if it was primarily coming from the main speakers or the sub.

Great.

Assuming you have small sats/sub on, it will be coming from the sub if BM is working correctly.

That will be a good test of DVD-A BM. Since Heathen already has its bass on the .1 channel, its not a good test of BM.

I appreciate your willingness to stick to it on this! It can get quite tedious. If my friend that bough a 563 on my suggestion was not 900 miles away, I would be all over this!

BGL

I got my 563-a over the weekend paired with a pioneer VSX-812K ...
I connected it thru the optical digital output..
So far, I love it....

Now you need to hook up the multi channel outputs to enjoy SACD & DVDA

thanks alot! Now I have to choose between the Philips 963 player (1080i hack?) and this one heck of a player for much less..and it has both audio formats! My JVC 723 is goin to be sold now any day to get one of these two players! thanks for all the insight guys...

I just ordered one so I'm all psyched! :D Should be here next week.

As it's a temporary fix it most definitely is going to be moved off to secondary duties as soon as a unified digital interface is adopted for DVD-Audio and SACD players, and I can get a new pre-amp that includes pure DSD processing and the necessary digital inputs.

I hope there is progress on that front soon!

Dan

Heads Up (I didn't see it mentioned here).
Best Buy has them in stock for $170 on sale.
I just bought one tonight but haven't had time to put it through the paces.
The Bob Dylan SACD sampler did sound great to me.

It is nice to see a B&M store carry a hot DVD product. Much easier to return.

Doug

Apparently this doesn't play WMA audio? Come on, its little brother the 363-k retails for $100 less and has WMA, but lacks the SACD feature. I really want SACD, but the WMA would be much more usable. I don't currently own any SACD titles. Why can't companies ever make what we want? This was exactly what I wanted.. yet as always they leave out some cheap feature that would probably cost <$5 and lose a sale.

I scoped the DAC chip (DSD1791) and it's getting DSD signals, furthermore when playing a SACD you can clearly see the DSD high frequency noise at the RCA outs superimposed on the audio signal. That noise isn't present for redbook CDs. I tend to like to see more of that filtered out (from an engineering standpoint.) It's interesting to note that the rear channels (which use a different DAC) don't have as much noise.

I think, PIONEER at the last moment changed back to DSD!!

I just got mine at BB. For what it costs I very impressed. I finally can just purchase the music I want without worrying about formats.

I listened to these SACDs

James Taylor's Hour Glass and it sounded great
DSOTM sounds awesome

DVD-A

Eagles Hotel California :):)


DVD performance seems fine with my Hitachi 51F500

Until the big companies can release universal player that incorporates a digital out for all formats, the 563A is a great inexpensive player.

Earle

Originally posted by hotstuff2000
Why can't companies ever make what we want? Because we, as consumers, don't always do a good job of communicating what we want effectively. :)

Peace...

Originally posted by EDecker
Until the big companies can release universal player that incorporates a digital out for all formats, the 563A is a great inexpensive player.
Doesn't the Pioneer Elite DV-47ai qualify as such a player today? I believe it can pass DVD-Audio/SACD/DD/dts, etc., all through the Firewire output to a receiver with a Firewire input, which then decodes the digital signal and produces the audio.

Peace...

Doesn't the Pioneer Elite DV-47ai qualify as such a player today? I believe it can pass DVD-Audio/SACD/DD/dts, etc., all through the Firewire output to a receiver with a Firewire input, which then decodes the digital signal and produces the audio.

At the moment it only works with their $4800 Pioneer receiver (don't recall the model). I think I read that there is a lower cost receiver from Pioneer coming that will also work.

But....its a proprietary connection. It may use firewire, but the protocol is not open.

So, while Denon also has a player/receiver pair that have a digital link, it too is proprietary, and only works with Denon.

Reminds me of all these major vendors (Pioneer, Sony, Denon, etc.) that have the ability for their own gear to work with a single remote through a serial connection (I think Sony is called S Link maybe???).

Great if all your gear is from them, but useless to the other 99% of users that prefer to mix and match gear.

BGL

After a full day of listening to the 563a, I'm impressed. SACDs sound as good as they do on my Sony CE775.

I have mid-fi equipment, nothing crazy $$$. Preamp is a Rotel 1055 receiver, 7 channels of Rotel amps, and Klipsch KG series speakers. My website has pics for those who are interested

Video performance is fine in my opinion, though im still a newbie with a HDTV.

DVD-A sounds great. this is my first time listening to this format. Hotel California sounds better than ever. I also picked up the new Bela Fleck, sounds great.

Redbook CD performance seems to be the as good as the 775's, which means its pretty good, imho.

Earle

Originally posted by BGLeduc
At the moment it only works with their $4800 Pioneer receiver (don't recall the model). I think I read that there is a lower cost receiver from Pioneer coming that will also work.

But....its a proprietary connection. It may use firewire, but the protocol is not open.
I didn't know that. I had read in the A/V receiver forum here that someone had connected their Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi to their Mitsubishi "NetCommand" box (I think) and the "NetCommand" box was able to actually "see" it, even though he didn't actually try to "exchange data" between the two devices.

I had figured the DV-47ai would function similarly. :)

Oh well... :)

Peace...

The trouble is that the Pioneer Elite receiver that has the FireWire connection for their universal player converts the DSD stream to PCM. It doesn't matter if you have BM and/or DSP modes on or not. Not a good thing IMHO.

Dan

Yup, I'd guess this could be found in this thread somewhere, but my search only showed up .... yup, this thread.

So, does this player convert DSD to PCM or not?

Thanks for this help!

Hi,
I'm not much of a poster, but wanted to pitch in my 2 cents on this player. I am really not impressed with the video quality of this player. The movies that I have watched since yesterday have had a 'grainy' look to them. I have watched T2 Extreme Edition, Toy Story 2 and Kingpin since I purchased it. I noticed more of a 'grain' with all of these titles compared to my older DVD player (JVC XV-SA70).

I did, however, enojoy the audio (SACD and DVD-A). I also noticed that my CD's sounded fantastic.

I am returning this player tomorrow and sprining for the Denon 2900.....


Although, for the price, this player certainly can't be beat, especially considering the features.

I am really not impressed with the video quality of this player. The movies that I have watched since yesterday have had a 'grainy' look to them. Did you try adjusting the settings in the 563a menu for contrast, brightness and chroma? You may also need to rejigger your TV a bit too - one of the calibration DVDs may be helpful.

I found with a few tweaks I got the picture exactly the way I wanted.

Except for the fact it is silver in color, this unit meets or exceeds everything I was expecting of it. The affordable price point was the icing on the cake for me.

Originally posted by relder
BTW, it also has one Burr Brown DSD1791 and two DSD1702EG DACs. .
Can anyone confirm which DSP and Video DACs they used in 563? Are they the same DSP56367 and ADV7172KST or hopefully they used ADV7190KST?

Originally posted by Gordon McGregor
Can anyone confirm which DSP and Video DACs they used in 563? Are they the same DSP56367 and ADV7172KST or hopefully they used ADV7190KST?

Unfortunately the video DACs appear to be on the underside of the analog board. You have to remove the entire transport to remove it to see the underside. Otherwise I'd look for you.

relder,
Thanks anyhow, the info concerning audio DACs is very useful already. If you will have a chance to have any additional info, please let me know. If anyone else can supply such info, I would be very thankful either.

I just picked one of these at the BestBuy sale. I picked up Carole King's Tapestry on SACD to go with it and I'm listening to it now. Unfortunately I dont' own the regular CD, nor do I have another SACD player, so I can't give any comparisons.

OOPS!!

With DTS 96/24, I had to change the 563A's setting from DVD Audio part to Video. With the disc still in the player, the 563A restarted and a different menu appeared. Then the DTS 96/24 tracks played just fine and they sounded real good too. The DVD Audio/Video part setting really plays to these types of discs (in this case a DVD-Audio disc of course) because depending on the type of player, the disc displays different menu options and the player itself handles the different tracks in different ways. The disc, Queen: The Game, features: DVD-Audio 5.1 96/24, DTS 5.1 96/24 and PCM 2.0 Stereo. The 563A didn't seem to output the DTS 96/24 when in "DVD Audio" mode. Furthermore, while playing DTS 96/24, the menu navigation system seemed to lock up. I'm going to study that more.

Went to Besy Buy yesterday. They have a new store in Montgomery, AL. The DVD-Audio/SACD section was tiny - a small 4' section for both formats in the entire store. The 563A was not sold at this store. One thing I saw that I like and dislike at the same time was SACD titles with both Stereo and Multi-Channel versions. One I bought, Marvin Gaye: Midnight Love, was available in Stereo (Silver packaging) and Multichannel (Gold packaging). The back covers were slightly different too. Having both in my hands and having a choice was cool. Thinking "they" might go back and make multichannel versions of the stereo only SACD discs I've already purchased was NOT. Also, I think it would have been even better if the Marvin title was a Stereo/Multichannel version instead of two seperate ones -- it only has 8 songs (9 on the multichannel version). Oh well just more thing to keep up with, hate to think I might purchase a Stereo version of a SACD title only to find out later that there is a multichannel version I didn't even know about.

Thanks for the reviews and replies on this one. I have been looking for a cheap multi player for awhile, and this one certainly fit the bill. Picked mine up at Best Buy in San Diego last night and have put it through all of the tests I can think of with DVD Video, DVD Audio, SACD, MP3 and even a few JPEG stills.
I run Video to an NEC 9PG Xtra projector and did not find any Chroma bug. Yea! Kudo's to Pioneer to finally fixing (may it remain so) that problem.
I have a slight concern about bass output from this unit. In 5.1 channel Analog mode (for SACD) the bass sounds loose from my HSU Sub. I run Axiom speakers all around for the other (5) channels, and they sound great - but that darn bass isn't as tight as when running DVD Audio. Samples come from the Police Every Breath You Take - I have both the DVD Audio version (DTS) and the multi-channel SACD version. May it just be the SACD is a lousy recording on that?
Regardless, I will enjoy hours of fun tweaking this thing and throwing all of the disks I can find into it.

Well, on VIDEO side, NOTHING MUCH TO TWEAK< to my dislike!!

Wesley,

The DTS and Dolby Digital tracks on DVD-Audio discs are for DVD-Video player only backwards compatibility. That's why these audio tracks are in the video files instead of the audio files on the disc (also why there are two different menu screens when you switch playback modes). DTS 96/24 (if you have a DTS 96/24 capable decoder) isn't going to sound as good as high resolution PCM 96/24 or 192/24 since DTS is a lossy compression format just like DD.

You do have to be careful with early SACD disc releases because they were made when multichannel DSD technology was not apart of the SACD specs. The labels are re-releasing some of their titles with remixed 6 channel DSD tracks because they couldn't before.

Dan

Wow.is this player causing some excitement or what?I'm trying to form a consensus opinion from the owners.I get the impression everyone is pleased with the video?As far as aucio,have any owners had experience with another dvd=a player?Denon 1600 or 2900,or the yamaha,for example?There's been one poster who thought his RP-72 was better on dvd=a,but he didn't sound all that sure yet.What do other owners think?No matter what,I think Pioneer deserves a round of applause.Considering they just put out a multi-player 1/5 the cost of what was available before they have done the consumer a huge service.

on GOOD DVDS, YES!!, on BAD dvds, no combing, but still, more artifcats than, dcdi, based players!!

did any one, compare this with xp50, on bad authored dvds/asian hong kong flicks etc

More DTS 96/24. My Denon AVR-3803's DTS 96/24 decoder and the Queen discs sound pretty darn good. Through experimenting, I know DVD-Audio sounds better but DTS 96/24 is a very close second, in my opinion.

I knew about the compatibility reasoning behind DTS 96/24 already but thanks to Dan for expanding on it here.

One thing about switching between the DVD video part and audio part is that the 563A does it just for the disc in the tray. Once it is ejected, the setting is returned to the was you had it. For example, I have it set to the audio part. When I use DVD-Audio, I just put them in and go. With DTS 96/24 tracks, I put the disc in and stop it. Enter setup and change the setting to Video part. The 563A starts reloading the disc as soon as I highlight video and press enter. I don't have to exit the setup screen. Once reloaded, the disc displays the proper menu and the DTS 96/24 tracks play fine. When finished, I simply eject the disc and everything returns like it was.

As far as video, I haven't seen combing yet. Monsters, Inc. looked great but the extra short Mike's New Car looked bad. Jason X, which looks good with my Panasonic RP-91 but not with my JVCs looked OK on the 563A. Still not sure what is going on with the Jason X disc though. The players that look good to me might be defaulting to video - I'm still not sure yet. The Crow with the scenes of quick repeating white strobes/fills played without issues. My JVC 902 (and some various RCA players in the past) caused my TV's video to appear to "cut out" as if the signal was lost for a tiny fraction of a second. The 563A and most other players I have play these scenes fine.

As for DVD-Audio and SACD, I still have to say that I think the 563A (with an Outlaw ICBM) sounds great. I can't believe how much music I listened to this past weekend. Both formats have me playing more music on my surround system and less movies which hasn't been the case in the past few years. Now there just needs to be more titles released for a greater selection. When I bought 3 titles from Best Buy Saturday, I went in planning to get as many as I could afford but I just could not find anything I liked that they had for sale.

As for DVD-Audio and SACD, I still have to say that I think the 563A (with an Outlaw ICBM) sounds great.

I have a question for those of you who own an ICBM and have also experimented with tweaking the speaker & LFE volumes inside the 563A. How does SACD/DVD-A playback compare between (a) the 563A alone, appropriately tweaked, with no ICBM, and (b) the 563A with the ICBM? If "b" is better, is it $250 better? Thanks!

Has anybody tried out LOTR Extended Edition on this machine?

I bought the 563 yesterday and ran a few test DVDs by it. I always liked LOTR to check for skin colors. I just bought the extended edition (now I need to get rid of the other one before my wife finds out I bought two versions of the same movie :D ). By the second chapter, I started getting sound cutouts. After a few of these, the video froze but the sound kept going. I get this using DTS ES or Dolby Digital.

Is it possible I got a bad disk? I have not had time to try it on another player.

Chris

Hey Chansen,

No problems w/ LOTR:EE in DTS:ES here. I watched about 2/3 of the movies so far. It may be the disc...

Miles

Chansen, I haven't had problems with either LOTR versions on the 563A played all the way through.

Is it possible to get a bad disk? Oh yeah, let me tell ya. The majority of the time everyone gets good discs but every now and then defects happen and I'm talking about things UNDER the protective layer too.

Play the same scene with the problem over and over to see if it happens repeatedly. Many times, but not always, that is a disc problem. If possible get another disc and try it obviously. Experiment and goodluck.

I WONT EXPECT/ACCEPT, Problem with PIONEER TRANSPORT, re Skipping freezing...

Originally posted by zoro
I WONT EXPECT/ACCEPT, Problem with PIONEER TRANSPORT, re Skipping freezing... It doesn't happen very often at all, which is much different from it NEVER happening. :)

Even though Pioneer's got a great track record for reliability (overall), it doesn't mean all of their players are perfect. :)

Peace...

If happens with PIONEER, I would LOOK at DISC/SOFTWARE factor!!

Even Both PIONEER/SONY..I have seen them PLAYING, UNPLAYABLE any where, else!!

Originally posted by hotstuff2000
Apparently this doesn't play WMA audio? Come on, its little brother the 363-k retails for $100 less and has WMA, but lacks the SACD feature. I really want SACD, but the WMA would be much more usable. I don't currently own any SACD titles. Why can't companies ever make what we want? This was exactly what I wanted.. yet as always they leave out some cheap feature that would probably cost <$5 and lose a sale. I'd post the link, but cannot as I am too new here - but Microsoft still has a press release up mentioning the 563a and WMA playback. Here's a quote from it:

New DVD Players Supporting Windows Media -- The following new DVD players support Windows Media, as announced at the 2003 International CES: (Jump to...) Pioneer Corp. unveiled two new DVD players at 2003 CES supporting WMA playback: the Pioneer DV-563A and DV-463. Both support the playback of custom CDs using Windows Media Audio to enable over 22 hours of music playback on a single CD.

Anyone play a WMA format disc on their 563a yet? The manual doesn't say a thing, but maybe Pioneer just wanted to save the licensing fee?

I just burned a quick CD with 3 miscellaneous .wma files I found on my PC. I popped it into the 563a but got the message "Can't play disk" although it is recognized as a CD.

I just ripped Clapton Unplugged to WMA (128k fixed rate) and burned to a CD (TDK 80 min on Lite-On drive using Nero 5.5.10.42) and received the same results as wilson46201 - it gives a 'can't play disc' error, but says it's a CD.

I took the same CD and burned a new session removing the WMAs and adding some mp3s (128k fixed). This is recognized as an MP3 CD and it played the files without any problems. Since the same media was used for both tests, it could not have been a media problem when trying to play WMAs. I think this definitely indicates that there is no WMA functionality (at least not with the stock firmware :) ).

I also just put in a jpeg CD and it reads it fine. It's slow to load pictures, but has a decent interface.

I think this definitely indicates that there is no WMA functionality (at least not with the stock firmware).Thank you for checking guys, I didn't have the ability to do so here.

I wonder if this may be one of the reasons this unit was delayed so much? Maybe Pioneer just couldn't offer as much as they had set out to do?

BTW, I can now post the actual link to the press release (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/Jan03/01-09WMDevicesSupportPR.asp), whereas I couldn't before.

Having WMA playback would have been nice (as would HDCD for regular CD playback, I miss that from my Toshiba 5700). But I'll enjoy the fact this unit can play the two hi-rez audio formats now without any apparent problems.

Hi! Two tweaking questions:

1) Can anyone suggest an audio calibration disc with discrete test tones in the subwoofer range? I've got Avia but it doesn't allow me to zero in on particular frequencies (like my 80 Hz crossover point).

2) Are there any dedicated DVD-A or SACD test tone discs out there?

Thanks, Rob

Rob - A 2-channel test disk that has tons of tracks on it, each one at a different frequency, is from Stryke Audio. You can get it for $10 plus shipping from www.stryke.com. It seems their web site is in transition right now, so you probably have to call them (how old fashioned, eh?).

DD

Very interesting.. I have checked several sites and most of them mention WMA as a feature for this model! Check any reviews for the product on google and you will probably find the same thing. I emailed Pioneer about this, but from your results, it doesn't look like it is supported.

Went to Best Buy yesterday to pick one of these up, and was initially disappointed that the last one (other than their display model) had the box ripped partailly open. I didn't want to wait (or trek to another store), so we opened it up to see if it looked OK. Looked fine, no missing parts, and when I asked if he'd sell it to me as an "open box" item, he agreed! $159.95 later and I was on my way!

Can't wait to hook this up when I get home and start playing with it. I'm thinking I'll probably get an Outlaw ICBM eventually...

So far I've got 2 DVD-Audio discs (Bjork and Neil Young) and 4 SACD discs (Aimee Mann, Pink Floyd DSOTM, Police, and Norah Jones). Any recommendations for other discs that might suit my tastes? My next pickups will probably be Metallica, Peter Gabriel, and maybe Fleetwood Mac "Rumours"...

Also, any recommendations of where to find the cheapest selections of these types of discs, either online or B&M?

Finally, any tips for iniital hookups/settings? I'll be connecting it to my new Denon 2830 receiver, along with my Ascend CBM-170/CMT-340C speaker setup (with HSU-VTF-3 subwoofer). All of this was purchased based partially on recommendations from this forum, and I haven't posted in a while, so a belated thanks to everyone! I'm thrilled with my setup, and I'm almost done (for now). After the ICBM I might get the Adcom power enhancer/surge protector. And after I install my DirecTivo upgrade, I'll be all set to sit back and listen to the sweet sweet music (and movies) for awhile...

I bought my 563-A on Sunday from Best Buy. I took a look at their DVD-Audio and SACD section and I then drove over to Circuit City to compare. Circuit City seemed to have slightly lower prices on their selections. I bought the Aerosmith 2CD SACD from Circuit City for $1.00 cheaper. It was listed for $29.99 at Best Buy and $28.99 at Circuit City. That seemed like at lot to pay for a CD that only plays on one component that I have but I wanted to try out the SACD and that was the only CD that I saw that had a lot of songs on it for the money (about 30 songs). It had every Aerosmith song that I could think of. I recommend it highly.

I also bought the Faith Hill DVD-Audio for my wife. It has one video and several other songs. It sounded good also.

Bobby

I am a bit confused after reading all these posts. So are you all saying I should stay away from this player since I have a Polk sattelite/sub speaker system and not full range speakers? or does it have proper bass management for SACD and DVD-A? I really don't want to spend money on an Outlaw.

Thanks,

Scott

all UNIVERSAL have their problems, so WHY NOT to get CHEAPEST, $170 vs $1000, ur Choice, even if u spend on OUTLAW ICBM, still u r winner!! and keep ur speakers!! LOL..

I have connected my Dv-563a with an optical digital cable to my VSX-812K receiver and had been very pleased with the sound so far.
I haven't tested any SACD or DVD-Audio yet but it seems like I have to connect my 6 discrete analog outputs to be able to hear SACD???
So if I do this, how do I force the player to still use the digital connection for regular DVD's ? Does it do it automatically??

Originally posted by Hacorzo
So if I do this, how do I force the player to still use the digital connection for regular DVD's ? Does it do it automatically?? Great question! How does this work?

Peace...

First, be aware that there is NO digital out when playing an SACD or the DVD-A tracks of a DVD-A disc. To hear them in their hi-rez form, you must use the 6 CH inputs of your receiver or pre/pro.

Now, when playing a DVD-V disc, the player will send out the DD or DTS bit stream via the digital connection automatically. You may have to go to the players menu, and enable the digital connection, or tell it to send out DD/DTS and not PCM, but thats it. All DVD Movies will work fine.

As for DVD-A discs, it gets slightly more complicated. Pretty much all DVD-A discs also have a DVD-V layer, which has a DD or DTS bit stream. If you want to listen to those, you have to tell the player to use the DVD-V layer when playing DVD-A discs. The default is the DVD-A layer, so you would need to change that.

Its not automatic, and is based on the assumption that most users will want to use the highest resolution track on a disc, and that would be DVD-A, not DD or DTS.

You would also need o reset it to access the DVD-A layer to go back to a DVD-A track.

In actual fact, while it may be interesting to listen to the DD or DTS version of a DVD-A disc for comparison purposes, it will not be as high resolution as the DVD-A track.

And for SACD, there is NO DD/DTS tracks, so they will ONLY be playable through the analog outs (6 CH or stereo).

BGL

Pioneer model DV-563A does have WMA playback.

THANK YOU

PIONEER CUSTOMER SERVICE



--Original Message--
From: [xxxxx]@charter.net
Date: 08/05/03
To: customer.support@pioneerservice.com
Subject: Feature and Specification|E00001|2052473776[#779578]

---
LOL.. very interesting. By the way, in the previous post it was mentioned that DVD-audio and SACD audio do not use digital outputs (SPDIF coax or optical). Is this a limitation of the DVD-a and SACD formats or is it a "feature" of this DV-563A model? I cannot and will not run 6 strands of wire for my setup. I have a DVD and X1 DLP projector in the back of the room, and Stereo system in the front, and all that connects the two is 50 foot of coax / spdif. I don't want to pay and run 6 strands of analog wire out from the player to the receiver. I'm hoping with another unit I won't have to. From what I've read we will see many many units next year that will perform like this 563a at lower prices due to new chipset. Hopefully these can use SPDIF digital out?

By the way, in the previous post it was mentioned that DVD-audio and SACD audio do not use digital outputs (SPDIF coax or optical). Is this a limitation of the DVD-a and SACD formats or is it a "feature" of this DV-563A model?

This is due to copy protection concerns from the content providers.

At present there are only three systems that I know of that have a digital link for the hi-rez outputs; Pioneer and Denon both make a player/receiver combo that had a proprietary link, and both are a bit more than $5K for the pair. I think Meridian has one as well that is even more expensive than that.

It is a shame about your set-up. Hi-Rez multichannel is, IMHO, the real reason to have one of these players.

BGL

By the way, in the previous post it was mentioned that DVD-audio and SACD audio do not use digital outputs (SPDIF coax or optical). Is this a limitation of the DVD-a and SACD formats or is it a "feature" of this DV-563A model?

It's because of paranoia on the part of record companies. They're afraid you'll make direct digital copies with the digital out, so they only allowed manufacturers to output sacd/dvd-audio via the analog outs. All players are this way except for a few of the more expensive players that use proprietary digital outs such as the denon-link or pioneer one (I forget what they call it). So for now, this is the way it has to be.

Well, I'm glad I happened upon this thread.
I was having a dilemma tonight with the kids. I need a new DVD player either for me or in the basement for the kids. I'm running an old Toshiba with an iScan. So the choices are:

Playstation II ... that way the kids can use that to play dvd's and I'll keep the Toshiba/DVDO? But then the will be a conflict when one wants to watch a dvd and the other play a game. Ahh, I'll just buy that for them this Christmas.

Denon 1600 ... a bit expensive and doesn't do everything I want. Put the Toshiba in the basement?

elChepo dvd player ... for the kids in the basement? Keep the Toshiba/DVDO

Then I came across this thread. A player that does everything I want. DVDA, SACD etc etc. Don't like silver, but that's hard to get around now days. I have to admit I never gave Pioneer equipment the time of day in all my HT days...never understood the appeal. But for $180, how can I go wrong. Called BB tonight and they have 3 in stock. I'm picking one up tomorrow. It'll be hooked it up to my Denon AVR-5700 and I'll buy an SACD to try it out.

PS: how are the layer changes?

Does this player have DVD+R compatibility? Sounds like an interesting player but as I have quite of number of DVD+Rs would hope it would play them Any replies greatly appreciated...

Does this player have DVD+R compatibility?

It doesn't list DVD+ capabilities, just DVD-

Dan

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
It doesn't list DVD+ capabilities, just DVD-

Dan

That don't mean they won't play. As the DV-656 will play them both, and it don't "show" it as being a + player by Pioneer either.

My Pioneer DV-F07 Elite 300+1 player plays all of them. Both + and - and in either the R's or RW's, and that was made before all the recordable DVD formats were even out and for sale. Most any new DVD player will play either the + or - recordable formats.

Guys, all Pioneer players starting from 520 (as far as I know, could be from 414) can read DVD+RW/+R ...

I just posted that because it doesn't talk about being able to, just like it makes no mention of WM file support. If someone can prove otherwise, please do so. :D

Dan

Originally posted by hotstuff2000
Pioneer model DV-563A does have WMA playback.

THANK YOU

PIONEER CUSTOMER SERVICE



Since I tested this myself and it failed, I don't believe that statement. Has anyone sucsessfully played a WMA on the 563?

I think I can find someone with DVD+R/RW discs for me to try. I'll post any results I have.

BTW: I dug up a VCD and it played fine. I don't have any SVCDs to test though.

Just picked one up at BB. I'll report bak later tonight. Also had to add $100 for audio cables to hook up the 6-channel audio :(

Also had to add $100 for audio cables to hook up the 6-channel audio

You didn't have to spend that kind of coin.

If you are of the view that cables make a difference in sound, then great, but if not, I would drag those cables right back to the store and get my money back.

On the way home, stop at a Radio Shack and by some of their mid-line stuff. You will be spending 1/3 the money.

Then take the difference and by some DVD-A's or SACD's to enjoy in your new player!

BGL

I don't know of this is relevant or not (since I don't have a 563A), but my new Toshiba won't play WMA unless it is encoded at 64. Anything above that and it won't play.

Well, I bought one and answered my own question. It definitely DOES play DVD+R discs. First, very casual impressions are this is a very nice sounding player; almost sounds as good as the Panasonic RP-91 it is replacing. Considering the Pioneer costs a third of what the Panasonic did speaks highly of it.

Just got home and hooked it up. Only had a few min. with it as I have to go eat and cut the grass..priorities.
Anyhow, took it out of the box. Not much too it. Light weight. Tray seems nice. Turned it on and ewe, no good. So I went into the settings and found it was 4:3 interlaced. Changed to 16:9 progressive and voila, great looking pic. Tried a DVD-Audio (Queen) and SACD (Peter Gabriel). The DVDA has no bass, but multi-channel. The SACD only plays two channel. I'll have to mess with the setting on that later tonight. Have to go now. I'll return back tongiht after some time with it.

You do have a few buried menus you have to flip through on this thing in order to get to the settings that make it work like you want it to, like having it prioritize the multichannel or stereo DSD tracks on SACD's, etc.

I've only had one problem so far: my 563A refuses to play the second layer of disc one (the movie) on The Emperor's New Groove: Ultimate Groove Special Edition. It'll freeze and/or lock up at the layer change, and you cannot access any chapters that are located on that second layer (even via the chapter index on the disc's main menu). Still trying to determine if it's the disc (laser rot??!!) or a compatibility problem with the player and this title. Other Disney discs of that same manufacturing vintage play just fine.

Hmmm...

Dan

Hey Dan,

I checked my copy of ENG 2-disc on my 563 and had no problems accessing all the chapters... Perhaps there's a physical flaw with the disc?

Miles

Miles,

That's what I'm thinking at the moment... thanks for checking! :D

Dan

One you set your preferences for multichannel/stereo SACD etc. do you have to go back into setup? The reason I ask is I have a HTPC with DVD-A via Audigy 2 and don't have a free video input to hook into the TV. I just want this to play SACDs and hope I can just leave it unhooked from the TV. Thanks.

Riddle me this...Where's my bass?
I feel I'm a rather seasoned HT person but I can't figure out for the life of me why my sub isn't working properly. I get no output from the sub on DVD's, CD's, DADA, SACD. What's the deal here. I'm running a Denon AVR-5700. It's one think if there was a problem with the SACD, but even the digital out isn't working properly. I've tried most settings. The sub is working. I tested the receivers internal test tones. Any thoughts.
I have a digital rca cable to the digital in on the 563. I have the 6 channel out from the dvd into the receiver. I get audio, just no sub. Speakers are set to Large for the front mains, Small for the center and surrounds and the sub it labeled on.
This is starting to irritate me. I'm going to bed...someone please come up with a sugestion.

Originally posted by Joe_R
Riddle me this...Where's my bass?
I feel I'm a rather seasoned HT person but I can't figure out for the life of me why my sub isn't working properly. I get no output from the sub on DVD's, CD's, DADA, SACD. What's the deal here. I'm running a Denon AVR-5700. It's one think if there was a problem with the SACD, but even the digital out isn't working properly. I've tried most settings. The sub is working. I tested the receivers internal test tones. Any thoughts.
I have a digital rca cable to the digital in on the 563. I have the 6 channel out from the dvd into the receiver. I get audio, just no sub. Speakers are set to Large for the front mains, Small for the center and surrounds and the sub it labeled on.
This is starting to irritate me. I'm going to bed...someone please come up with a sugestion.

Does your sub have a light indicator that shows a source? When my sub is receiving a source it changes from red to green. Have you tried a DVD-Audio disk? I would force it into the DTS mode. You should defiantly have bass in that mode. Try these simple test and report back if you can.

Ohhhh, my mistake.
I woke up today and went at it. Connected my old DVD player up and the same thing....I started thinking my sub is on it's way out?? Look behind the sub and check the cables. AHhH, the sub had one cable out and on in, cancelling the bass. Doh, I took the sub out a few days ago and in my haste, put the interconnects on wrong. Sounds much much better now. I'm a happy camper

first impressions:
soundstage (2-channel stereo) much more precise than my Toshiba.
Video quality is excellent. It's an improvement over my Toshiba/iScan. I'll be playing today.
No back lighting on the remote...but since I use a universal, it doesn't matter.
Switches tracks (audio and video) quickly...much much quicker than my old Tosh.

I posted earlier about this but wanted to follow up hoping that somebody now participating in this thread with the player who has this disc can check to see if they're getting the same results as me.

The Rhino DVD-Audio title Alice Cooper "Billion Dollar Babies" has a video interview that doesn't seem to play on my DV-563A.

I confirmed in another thread that someone who also has this disc *can* play the video interview on their Toshiba 4700 DVD-Audio capable player, so unless I have a problem with my particular copy of the disc, it seems the video interview should play.....

The behavior I'm seeing is when I select the 'Video Interview' from the main menu on the disc, I get the screen and graphic, but the up/down arrow keys don't seem to have any affect and eventually the 'Top' menu button lights up and the screen returns to the main menu on the disc. I've tried all sorts of things but nothing I do seems to make the interview play.

Someone suggested that I try setting the 563 DVD Playback mode from the default DVD-Audio to DVD-Video. This didn't make much sense to me since a non DVD-Audio capable player sees a completely different disc menu than a DVD-Audio player, a disc menu (ie from the Cooper disc itself) which *doesn't* include the option to play the video interview, which is a available on DVD-Audio capable players only etc.

But anyway I went to the 563 Initital Settings,Options,DVD Playback Mode, DVD-Audio/DVD-Video to try switching this and to my surprise it seems that I can't select DVD-Video as an option! No matter what I do the 563 Initital Settings,Options,DVD Playback Mode stays at DVD-Audio.

So it seems I have yet another problem.....

Can anyone confirm either behavior?

thanks!

--Don

" But anyway I went to the 563 Initital Settings,Options,DVD Playback Mode, DVD-Audio/DVD-Video to try switching this and to my surprise it seems that I can't select DVD-Video as an option! No matter what I do the 563 Initital Settings,Options,DVD Playback Mode stays at DVD-Audio."

Was the AC disc in the player? If so, take it out and try it.

larry

Bump for this thread
I wonder if this player is going to be tested in the shootout anytime soon....I'd love to see the results...hint, hint Don and Stacey if you're reading.;)

Went to Best Buy in Manhattan yesterday...they had 6 of em so I picked one up for $179.

Got it all hooked up and so far have only listened to several redbook and a few SACDs (Police, Bruce Live in NYC and DSOTM)...all sound great. Threw several of my CD-Rs at it and they played beautifully without a hiccup. The Pioneer compares well to what my ears remember of the Philips 963SA. (it left several days ago) Perhaps not as refined, but very detailed, full and rich.

Watched a bit of the Springsteen Live in NYC DVD...one of my reference discs and the picture looks great via component hookup to my interlaced Sony. Then Gangs of New York. Colors seem a tad duller than the Phillips (less saturation), but I will be calibrating it with the Avia disc once the player has had some burn-in time.

I listened to some DVD-As as well (The Eagles, Aaron Neville)and they sound glorious.

So far, I am extremely pleased with this bargain player.

John

After a day of happy use...I have just discovered a problem with my 563. While watching LOTR I noticed color banding. I have the component output hooked up to my component input on my interlaced Sony Wega. The player is set to Component Interlaced in the settings.

I then tried several other discs including The Recruit, Phonebooth and a few more and the color banding is pretty bad. I checked all my connections...everything is secured fine...and it was working great last night.

I tried the composite video and it was fine.

Has anybody else experienced this color banding with the component output on interlaced?

I have an older 5 disc DVD C603 player by pioneer and a newer one that came with a pioneer HT in a box DV-353 and they both play the DVD+RW discs from my Philips 985 DVD recorder.

Picked up a unit at BesBuy and quess what? It choked on every DVD+RW that I tried.trys to read them and then just says "STOP".Seems like a nice unit and $160 was a great price but if it can't read +RW I couldn't use it.

Well I just went down to the local Best Buy and purchased one for 179.00. I'm replacing a Toshiba 2108 which I bought in 1998 for 599.00.

My current receiver the Sony 50es does not have a 5.1 input so I 've connected the 563a using the 2-channel out to the cd jack on my receiver. I'm not sure if the receiver digitizes this signal or not but it sounds really good.

The video presentation is much better than my Toshiba which was interlaced. My tv is a 46"mits HDTV so I'm sure if there where problems I would see then on a bigger screen.

I really don't see how anyone could fault this player for 179.

Originally posted by jandr
I have an older 5 disc DVD C603 player by pioneer and a newer one that came with a pioneer HT in a box DV-353 and they both play the DVD+RW discs from my Philips 985 DVD recorder.

Picked up a unit at BesBuy and quess what? It choked on every DVD+RW that I tried.trys to read them and then just says "STOP".Seems like a nice unit and $160 was a great price but if it can't read +RW I couldn't use it.

I also tried a +R and a +RW (from a 985) with the DV-563A and got the same results. In all fairness, the box does say -R/-RW compatible with the usual asterisk disclaimer. However, two older Pioneers, a DV-414 (circa 1999) and a two-year old DV-444 had no problems playing the +R/+RW disks. The 414 was really a surprise.

There's a compatibility list at www.dvdplusrw.org and this would be the first Pioneer model listed that is a definite no. It's a bit of a disappointment that Pioneer took a step backward on this feature for this player.

OK..just got back from BB and exchanged it for another of the same unit. Hooked it up via component again and still have the banding in interlaced mode. Never had this problem with the Philips 963SA and I was using the identical Signal Component cable.

Hooked up the 563's S-Video and the picture is great and really close in resolution to the component...same with the composite, but the picture is a bit softer as expected.

I am going to get myself a decent S-Video cable and keep the unit. The fact that it plays redbook CD, CD-R, SACD and DVD-A so nicely is well worth the tradeoff of using the S-Video connection as opposed to the component. It is certainly a bargain at $179 for a Universal Player. I also like having the extra set of good analog outputs so I can run them directly to a dedicated headamp (at the moment my Denon AVR2000 amp)while the 6 channel outouts can run to my 6.1 HT receiver's analog input set.

The onsceen menus are also very easy to navigate and use.


John

For what it's worth, my 563 does not do layer changes at all well. I never had any problems before with my Toshiba unit. Too bad! I really liked the audio portion, and the price is hard to beat. Oh well, I tried it.

Greg,

I have played the following formats with no problems at all. CD-R,CD-RW,Jpeg,DVD-R,DVD-RW,DVD+R,DVD-RW,DVD-Video,DVD-Audio,SACD DSD multi hybrid, SVCD,VCD. The only thing that it hadn't played is a CD-R with WMA music files,which I couldn't care less about. I watch video in Progressive mode and have no image problems. Layer changes are much faster than my previous player which was a JVC XV-SA75GD.

I have solved the problem of the component color banding. It is NOT the Pioneer player at all...it is the component inputs on my Sony Wega 36FV15. :( I have had this set for over 5 years and never had a problem.

Just to make sure, I hooked the Pioneer 563 up to my newer 27" Sony Wega in the bedroom via the component inputs. Beautiful picture without a trace of color banding.

So, if my alarms on this put anyone off buying this terrific bargain universal player...I am sorry..but there must be a faulty circuit in my old Wega's component video section.

Can't afford a new big screen just to get workable component inputs....so I will enjoy the Pioneer 563 via the S-Video connection on it till I finally break down and go for the HDTV :)

John

Good to hear it's not the player....

Originally posted by kevinivey
I have played the following formats with no problems at all. CD-R,CD-RW,Jpeg,DVD-R,DVD-RW,DVD+R,DVD-RW,DVD-Video,DVD-Audio,SACD DSD multi hybrid, SVCD,VCD. The only thing that it hadn't played is a CD-R with WMA music files,which I couldn't care less about. I watch video in Progressive mode and have no image problems. Layer changes are much faster than my previous player which was a JVC XV-SA75GD.

Kevin,

DVD-RW was listed twice. Perhaps you meant DVD+RW for one of them. Would you know what recorder and brand media was used in making the + DVDs? I used a Philips 985 and Fuji media and they did not play. The +R was finalized. Thanks.

Kevininey, thanks for confirming DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD-RWDVD+RW and especailly SVCD. I have some SVCD movies on order I was going to test on my 563A, now I can just enjoy them.

For what it's worth, my 563 does not do layer changes at all well.
It's about average & a bit faster than Panny DVD players.

After reading a few threads regarding the Pioneer DV-563A CD/DVD-V/DVD-A/SACD/MP3 player, I picked up the player from Best Buy for $179. While doing the research I noticed this tech information on Crutchfield's web site.

"Digital Audio Output Capabilities: When multichannel DVD Audio is played through the digital outputs, it is downmixed to 2-channel stereo before being passed by the digital outputs. Also, depending on the disc, when a DVD-Audio disc using a sampling rate of 192kHz or 176.4kHz is played, the sampling rate will be down-converted to 96kHz for playback through the digital outputs. Some DVD-Audio signals and all SACD signals will be available only through the analog outputs. The digital outputs are capable of passing linear PCM digital signals from DVD Video discs with sampling rates as high as 96kHz. If a DVD Video disc with 96kHz sampling rate is copy-protected, the unit will down-convert the sampling frequency to 48kHz before passing the signal through the digital outputs."

Shockingly, the Panasonic DVD-RP91 has a similar downconversion system. It seems the digital output, even when it works, may not be full fidelity.

My Denon 1803 digitizes all audio. I am rigging up and Adcom four channel staight amp and a PS-Audio Elite plus intergrated amp for an all-analog listening test of The Dark Side of the Moon SACD I purchased. I'll report back...

So far this is THE best DVD picture I have ever seen, easily blowing away my one year old Philips 724S and my nForce-II ATI AIW 8500-DV HTPC. This thing has 10bit video DACs compared to Panasonic 12bit DACs and can play a very damaged copy of Croutching Tiger Hidden Dragon's 1:20:9 layer chaange. It can play 320KBps and VBR MP3s (some players can't) but totally ignores WMAs.

More to come...

glad to hear about the video quality. There's been so much talk of the audio on this player that I think most have lost sight of the fact that it also plays video. I'm thinking about buying this primarily for the video. Any other opinions on the video playback would be welcomed.

I just picked up the 563A at my local BestBuy for $179. I also bought a bunch of cables to hook the thing up. I only plan to use it for music, so I hooked it up using the Crescendo (http://www.crescendo-systems.com/bassm.html) bass management box that I still had laying around.

I use the level control of the 563A to set the relative levels for the channels since my receiver doesn't seem to do this (or I haven't found it yet). I played my only two SACD's that I have at the moment DSOTM and Bat out of Hell and I have to say that it sounds impressive. I think this will give me a good excuse to buy more multi-channel music :)

Guys, are there any known hacks for this player? I have some Region 2, 3, and 0 discs that I just gotta have work. I know in the past Pioneer has been pretty easy to hack, but I want to know of some success stories and, more importantly, methods.

Thanks!

To anybody who is having this component input color banding problem on their SONY Wega or XBR...you can easily fix this problem via the television's service menu using the remote.

You need to adjust the HOSC setting from the factory pre-set of 7 to about 11.

For info on how to get to the service menu and making changes....here is a very helpful page sent to me by another A/V fan. Please follow directions to the letter and remember to write down your set's original settings. Also, be aware that entering the service menu negates any Sony warrenty you may have:

http://www.members.accessus.net/~090/awh/sonyadj.html

This is the first time I have ever been brave enough to use a service menu, but it really got rid of the one problem I thought I had with the Pioneer 563A.

John

Hmm... I haven't read thru the whole thread, but I haven't seen anybody say anything about the extremely low speaker levels via the analog out especially for the subwoofer. If you all have talked about this can you point me to the page or pages. Below is my initial review and problem that I posted near the bottom of this link, so if you can think of anything or if you have the same problems, please let me know.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB6&Number=443937&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Based on this (the above) thread,I went out and got this Universal player from Best Buy Friday to satisfiy my audio side, and have a Vinc Bravo on the way to handle the video side. Over the weekend I put the 563-A through its paces. Good picture quality, no added EE or noticible Chroma bugs. Close to AVIA video specs right out of the box. MX-700 remote learned everything after a couple of tries.

On the audio side, I tried DSOTM SACD and 1812 Telarc DVD-A and both ran with no problem. The one problem I found was setting up the player's speaker distance and levels for any analog out signals. The player only gives you -6 to +6 to play with and if I set everything to -6 or even 0 to begin with, I have to turn up my processor louder (+10dB) than normal and this leads to an audible snow/noise in the speakers. So I turned up all the speaker to the maximum of +6dB (which equals the fixed), however, at this level the sub was still about 10dB too low relative to the speakers. I had to settle for setting all speakers to large for any analog out signals. Using "variable" instead of "fixed" still allows for distance setup and individual speaker level calibration.

I usually play CDs/DVDs at -10. This problem does not affect any signals going out via the coax or optical which uses my processor's settings, but this will affect DVD-A and SACD playback, although my front three speakers can handle most of the bass.....

After my initial post I wrote this:

After my first post I fine tuned the subwoofer knob with the 563A sub set to +6 until it was at the proper level, then when I went to redo my Halo C2 sub setting I turned it all the way down to it's lowest setting of -15dB and it was still too loud!

So I went back and tuned the knob so that the -15dB on the processor was properly calibrated and then checked to see what the 563A sub level was at. It is still down about -6dB. I have set all the speakers to large on the 563A setting to pick up the slack...and that is all I can think of trying. I could set the other speakers to -6 but at that level, my processor has to be turned way up and I can start to hear snow/noise in the speakers and this defeats the purpose of high resolution audio.

Does anyone use the Outlaw ICBM? Would it help in this situation?

Does anyone use the Outlaw ICBM? Would it help in this situation?

An ICBM will allow up to +9 on the combined sub/LFE channel. That would get you pretty close, and it will provide better BM, with adjustable crossovers, etc.

This problem has existed with almost all universal players since they were released. I have a 45A, and first reported on it in October of last year.

Recently, some new information has begun to surface. I still feel the problem exists (there are too many users that have reported the problem, with the 563, 45A, 47Ai, as well as players from other vendors).

Certain Denon receivers have a switchable built-in boost for the .1 channel. Also, I have reports from users of the Outlaw 950 and a Lexicon pre/pro indicating that the boost is not required with that product.

And I just swapped my old school Marantz SR-96 for a new NAD 762 receiver. Now I too no longer have the issue.

But, how do you fix it in your rig? Unless you have separate trims for the 5.1 inputs, you are stuck doing what you are doing (+6 sub, -4 mains in the player).

If you do have separate trims, you can probably find a combination of sub level, channel trim etc., to get everything balanced (I was able to with my old rig).

As for the root cause, it has been said that the +10 boost required of DD decoders is missing from this and others players. That does not quite wash, because you will find that once you get the player's levels balanced with DD test tones, they will also be balanced with DVD-A and SACD.

BGL

BGL,

Thanks, I understood everything except the last part. I think you are saying that if I use this player's internal DD/DTS built in decoders and played them via the analog out that the decoder was not made correctly and does not boost the LFE +10dB as it should.

However, I will not be using the player's decoder for DD/DTS so this is not an issue for me. I will be using the digital out for these two formats and let my Halo C2 do the processing.

I have heard that the player's test tones are incorrect and I also believe that the AVIA disc test tones are incorrect (too low) when played through the analog out of the player. When I play the test tone, I have to turn it way up to acheive 75dB through the analog connections, but when I play it through the digital connection it is right on par with my processor's test tones. When I play actual DVD-A, all is well, and they play at my normal volume levels, so I think that DVD-A and SACDs are recorded at higher volume levels than DD/DTS. This means that the analog connection will work just fine for DVD-A and SACDs but will be too low for DD and DTS.

I think you are saying that if I use this player's internal DD/DTS built in decoders and played them via the analog out that the decoder was not made correctly and does not boost the LFE +10dB as it should.

Well, as I said, the reason for the apparent low .1 channel is open for some debate. And you are correct that the internal test tones are suspect (on my 45A, the .1 channel test tone is in fact low. I have an e-mail from Pioneer that affect).

You will not have any problems with DD/DTS, since that will be done outside the player.

The Avia tones are not known to be faulty. But, as you observed, the analog outs of the player are low. This is a trait shared with the 45A, and was mentioned in the S&V review of that player, so you will need relatively higher gain levels to get the 5.1 ins to the same subjective level as the DD/DTS decoder in your receiver or pre/pro. In my case, I cn not get the two equal.

Have you tried using any DVD-A test tones? I have found the Chesky Ultimate DVD is useful since it has both DVD-A and DD tones on the same disc.

FWIW, in my current rig, I used the Chesky DD tones to calibrate the internal deocders in my receiver (using the digital connection from the player). And I was surpirsed that I needed to run the channel trims up to between +7 and +8 (volume knob at 0) to get to 75 dB.

I then switch to the 5.1 inputs, and use the DVD-A tones to check those levels. I find I needed to tweak the levels in the player slightly to be equal across all channels (the new receiver only has a single set of trims). I also find that the overall level before tweaking the player well over 80 dB.

I can not account for the big difference in levels, but I guess as long as the channels levels are all balanced relative to each other, all is well.

BGL

Cool...thanks for the input.

I will have to check out that Chesky Ultimate DVD. I may already have it?!...or maybe that was the Telarc Sample disc?! :p

Well with all the hype with this unit, I had to check it out. Very impressed on Audio and very shocked. I am a Audiophile with common sense! :) And I have a CD of Diana Krall playing on both units, and I am switching back and forth and I am having a very very hard time telling a difference betweem my Reference 777ES SACD Player and my new Pioneer DVD unit, I also have a Philips unit a 963A which I love on CD up sampling playback because it makes my Red Book CDs even sound better. SACD test next then Video. I have a Panasonic RP-56/Philips 963A and a 777ES SACD Sony unit to compare to the Pioneer 563A and so far on CD Playback a thumbs up!

Wow German,nice stuff!Please do report back-with your various players I think you could provide a frame of reference for a lot of people

I was watching "Chicago" DVD last night & I didn't find its PQ as punchy & film-like on my Pioneer 563, so I played it on my Panasonic DMR-E80 -- it produced a noticeably better, smoother picture. I know the E80 lacks DCDi & has chroma issues, but it still beat the Pioneer. I also tried "Starship Troopers" SuperBit DVD, which too looked better on the E80.

Chicago just doesn't look good. :D I was a bit soft and grainy. I tried this on the 563 and Bravo.

Originally posted by Garman
Well with all the hype with this unit, I had to check it out. Very impressed on Audio and very shocked. I am a Audiophile with common sense! :) And I have a CD of Diana Krall playing on both units, and I am switching back and forth and I am having a very very hard time telling a difference betweem my Reference 777ES SACD Player and my new Pioneer DVD unit, I also have a Philips unit a 963A which I love on CD up sampling playback because it makes my Red Book CDs even sound better. SACD test next then Video. I have a Panasonic RP-56/Philips 963A and a 777ES SACD Sony unit to compare to the Pioneer 563A and so far on CD Playback a thumbs up!

I now have the 563 set up a the ultimate transport thanks to my MX-700 remote. I have the digital out, 5-channel analog out, and 2 channel analog out all hooked up.

For DD and DTS I use the digital connection. For DVD-A and SACDs, I use the 5-channel analog out, and for CDs I use the 2 channel analog out, and let my processor upsample them to stereo96. Everything switches flawlessly with a push of the button.:D

Well had a chance to compare audio and video with the Philips 963A and the Panasonic RP-56 and the Sony 777ES SACD Player(Audio Only). I put up the 563 Pioneer up against all of these which is not a fair comparison by any means but the player did shine in certain areas. For what is worth for the money it is a steal. The 777ES sounded better on all music and really sounded better on SACD Playback, the Phillip's 963A sounded the best on CD playback because of the up sampling that takes place along with some pretty good Dacs. The Pioneer on Video using a Sony 10HT on a 92" screen produced some damn good images for the money, I did notice on Farscape it got a tad blurry once in awhile, but not on most of the material view. The Phillip's uses DCDi but I haven't had a chance to tweak it yet, but the picture didn't look as good and of course the RP-56 put up the best picture, and has for sometime even up against some mega players I have had costing 20X as much. Now I got so many damn players laying around I need to get rid of a few of them, problem is they all have specific areas where they do well. Can anyone make a good all around player? And, no not Yamaha 2300 or the 2900 Denon, I tested them already and there faulty in areas also.

Sony 777ES SACD Does excellent SACD Playback good on CD Playback. No video of course.
Philips 963A does Red book CDs the best, SACD very good. Video not sure yet. Haven't tried Multi
Panasonic RP-56 Does video the best on a LCD, and audio is so so, bright at times.
Pioneer 563 good on CD Playback lacks detail, Video is good not on par with the Panasonic 56 but not bad for a player costing only 180 bucks which is a huge plus. DVD-A is decent and SACD is good.
Hell I almost forgot, I have a Sony Mega changer in the mix also, but haven't tossed it in for comparisons yet.

More results to come, with 5.1 and 2 channel hookup in HT. Most of my comparisons where done using 2 channel Audio Using a Musical Fidelity A308 Int. Amp, haven't had a chance to use multi channel yet too many damn cables to switch. :) I would like to point out, the only 2 DVD players I can compare for multi-Channel in SACD is the Philips 963A and the Pioneer.

MaxC, I noticed your using the Parasound Halo gear, how do you like it so far? I am using Dynaudio Speakers up front and a Sony 10HT with a 92" ViewTech Screen, will be switching to a Firehawk soon and maybe new projector. Also have Marantz M-700 for the front 3 and a Chiro C-200 for the rears. I been through too many pre/pros and opted to do the Receiver up front and have a seperate 2 channel system, which I switch out in a matter of seconds. I am using a Sony 777ES SACD Player along with Musical Fidelity A308 Int. Amp with some Nordost cables, haven't found any pre/pro that compares to that on Audio yet. Oops, off track here, so far the Pioneer 563 is a good all around value for the money and from what I read it uses Philips chipset for SACD Playback which is good.

Garman!! Thnx man!! Keep us posted!! Man!!

I have both 563a and 963sa...imho, on bad dvds, philips give more artifact free image and is more vivid/smooth..

pn GOOD STUFF, any ways, pioneer is nOT BAD!

AUdio, 963SA is more SOPHISTICATED !!

Pioneer..is NOT BAD for any thing on its price, esp on DD/DTS sound tracks, sound darn good!!

For its price point is a KEEPER!

But, I watch, Pal, multi region movies, and also, badly authored asian discs, where philips is advantageous!

I'll like bit more TWEAKABILITY too, so will wait for more advanced PIONEER/ELITE model, preferably ELITE, that can be tweaked to play video based material, better!!

So, I am keeping philips, returning pioneer at this p[oint..

Pls. keep us posted! on ur findings, esp, pioneer/vs philips

Not sure if I am going to keep the Pioneer yet , I haven't had a chance to use the Philips unit on the Video side very much, but I heard it needs to be tweaked. I think I still have it set to interlaced verses Progressive scan. I am buying a new Mac G5 so if the Philips is almost as good as the Sony 777ES SACD unit on Audio I will sell that and keep the 963A and the Pioneer for kicks. It is nice to keep a reference piece around but trickle down technology makes reference pieces not so appealing anymore.

Garman..963Sa on interlace, imho, is really bad..pioneer is better there!

Does anyone know if this player (563A) will do shuffle play on a CD-R of MP3s. This is the one feature lacking on my RP91. While usually burning 100+ songs on a CD-R as mp3, I really don't want to listen to them in the same order every time I drop in the disc.

Rmassey, not sure but I will check tonight. Unit is very good for the money, but FP owners beware. I have a 10HT on a 92" Firehawk screen and I was watching various material last night and I noticed the picture getting soft and blurry, at first I thought it was me but it was the Pioneer unit, I switched to my Philips 963A and the picture didn't do this, it also looked allot better. I am for sure keeping the Phiilips unit and still debating if I should keep the Pioneer.

Does the 563A with speakers set to LARGE and subwoofer output ON, send out via the 5.1 analog outputs whatever is on the SACD and DVD-Audio discs with no alterations?

If it does NOT, there will be some very unhappy people here!

Dan, I know that I read a post somewhere (here, HTF, Spot....too many threads!) from a user that is using the 563 with an ICBM, and that it worked beautifully.

Of course you should await word from someone that has actually done this (I am a 45A/ICBM user), but I think you are good to go.

BGL

How is the interlaced output from this unit? I already have an Iscan Ultra and still plan on using it with the Pioneer. I figure with my Iscan Ultra, an Outlaw ICBM, and the 563A, I pretty much have a system that is more complete that any universal player out there right now. The Iscan Ultra addresses deinterlacing and chroma issues and the Outlaw addresses all the bass management issues. Now if we can only address the time management issues with SACD and DVD-A. It is still cheaper for me to do that as opposed to buying 5 full range speakers and a sub, plus you have a system that will deinterlace other components too.

pioneer are generally good about interlaced out put, philips is bad!

Originally posted by Garman
MaxC, I noticed your using the Parasound Halo gear, how do you like it so far? I am using Dynaudio Speakers up front and a Sony 10HT with a 92" ViewTech Screen, will be switching to a Firehawk soon and maybe new projector. Also have Marantz M-700 for the front 3 and a Chiro C-200 for the rears. I been through too many pre/pros and opted to do the Receiver up front and have a seperate 2 channel system, which I switch out in a matter of seconds. I am using a Sony 777ES SACD Player along with Musical Fidelity A308 Int. Amp with some Nordost cables, haven't found any pre/pro that compares to that on Audio yet. Oops, off track here, so far the Pioneer 563 is a good all around value for the money and from what I read it uses Philips chipset for SACD Playback which is good.

I absolutley love the Halo C2, A52, and A21. The other processor I was considering before the Halo C2 came out was the Anthem AVM20. This processor does everything I need and comes with a mic for auto-calibrations and the MX-700 remote.

I have a complete 7.1 Rocket speaker setup, and a Sharp Z10,000 projector with a 106" Da Lite High Power screen. I just got the Bravo D1 to handle the video side of DVDs and the 563 to handle the audio side. I have the analog surround output from the 563 going to the analog rear inputs of the C2 so that for music I am using the rear direct speakers instead of the side dipoles. Rear analog inputs was a key feature I found on the C2 and not on some other similarly priced processors. It also has 4 programmable channels, one of which, I use for my Buttkicker.

Zoro: you got that right. barely ever use interlace, if I would, I would use my Sony S-7000. Not sure if I am going to keep the Pioneer yet. Some more testing on video and if it does the same blurry affects I have been seeing it will go back.

I really liked the audio capabilities of this unit, but video is marginal at best. I have a new Sony DV-NC665P and the video out of this unit is wonderful. I returned my 563 Today.

Sony/pioneer are pretty darn good for interlaced out put!

Only tested progressive. Sony won hands down.

Well I am thinking of returning my unit tomorrow, have way too much gear around the house and another little one on the way. Plus I think my wife will be happy seening once less piece of gear and boxes all over my HT room :) Also after testing the Philips 963A, it won hands down on Progressive and SACD Playback. Also the Philips has CD upsampling and my Red book CD have never sounded better.

Well to anyone that wants a great player for the Money this is the one to have!! I watched 5th Element and a few other parts from other reference movies and the Pioneer produced a great picture and sound from this little puppy!! Now I don't know if I want to take it back :)

G

Well now I'm confused... yesterday you didn't seem to like the video quality. So are there certain titles it seems to have a problem with, while others are good? What were the "bad" ones?

Darin, in this business even as a consumer it is easy to make rash quick judgements, I have only had the unit for several days and you are correct it seems like some titles have produced a blurr effect when watching a movie. But hell, that could because I am not getting any sleep with a pregnant wife around :) I will review it some more today and decide if I want to keep it or not, but on a 50" screen or smaller I don't see this being a issue. So far the bad ones where a episode of Farscape First season #4 disc produced some blurring, my Philips 963A did not do this. Also saw some burring on LOTR and a few others. DCDi Processing to me is still the best out there, and I wish Pioneer/Sony and Denon would use it in all there players, wishful thinking I guess. And as far as being confused, I am! :) Because this player for the money does some very good things and some not so good, a few more days, and I will know for sure. I think it is really easy to return the unit, but the more I spend time with it the more I like it. I wish some of the guys from the Secrets would pop in and give there .02 cents.

video based transfers, as u can not set it film vs video etc, for deinterlacing..film based material..it is very good!

Zorro I watch mostly Film based material, and your right it is very good. I wouldn't mind checking out the new Denon 5900 but it better be a Ton better than this unit in every respect otherwise it is throwing away good money. Hell you can buy one fo these for $179 bucks slap a 3 year warr on it for 30 bucks and your as good as gold. I have spent allot of money on high end DVD Players in the past and most of them don't stack up very well on the Video end of things.

I agree, but I like a bit more TWEAKABILITY, so, will be getting, advanced version of this or elite version..I did return mine!

I purchased a 563 from Crutchfield's scratch & dent catalog. There was external damage apparent on the product, and the digital output worked great. However, when I connected the 5.1 analog outs to my H/K Signature 2 preamp I noticed that in the speaker setup mode, there was virtually no volume in the test tone coming from the subwoofer channel. What was worse was that on regular program material (eg. Monster's inc.), I had to raise the volume on my preamp to almost the top of the scale in order to get reasonably loud playback from any of the channels, but especially the sub. Things got a little better when I increased all the levels on the 563 to +6db, but I don't think that should have been necessary.

I finally decided to return it since I thought my 3 yo basic Sony sounds a lot better, even with DVD-A titles.

Have other people had similar issues with low output? Or maybe this is just because this was a scratch and dent item?