All -

I figured I'd jump in and start a thread since I didn't see anything. It looks like Comcast is getting ready to roll out HDTV in the area. I called and all they could do is put me on a notification list... no channel list or pricing yet. Anyone have further info?

I'm curious as to how quick this will go down because I just purchased an OTA receiver. If I can get most of the programming with Comcast and don't need the antenna and extra STB I may take it back.

For those of you from other regions, how quick did Comcast roll out HDTV after the "coming soon" advertising appeared?

So let's hear it!
Cheers!
Brad

I am a comcast employee in the saint paul office and as such I am currently a beta tester for the HD service that we will be releaseing late Augest early september and as far as extra cost the most basic digital package will have some HD and that ranges from 59.98 a month its called Digital Plus and as far as more HD you would have to move up in price since HBO and Showtime have a HD channel you would have to move to Digital Gold which is currently 74.99 a month. you will get a Motorola DCT 5100 box which is grey and very cool looking and the channels that are currently on there as of beta stage is KARE (NBC),KMSP (FOX),HBO (East),Showtime (East). I belieave there is more channels to be lanched such as ESPN HD but I have had not been told that information as of yet. I just emailed the manager of the HD tv beta test asking if he knows the exact launch channels that will be released for customers and will update with that information when it become avaliable I hope this helped.

ComcastRep -

Thanks for the info! Any word on the other locals (CBS, ABC, PAX, PBS, UPN)? I don't mean to press... I'm just excited I may just have to take my Samsung 151 back to the store and try to hold out for the next month or two. I look forward to hearing more!

If you are brave enough and haven't already done so, you may want to pass this information along to the operator of hdtvtwincities.com and perhaps post on http://www.ktca.org/innertube/inside/bbs/ where someone has asked about Comcast HDTV.

Again, Thanks!
Cheers!
Brad

ComcastRep - you have a PM.

Cheers!

Excellent info. I was starting to think we were never going to see HD. Please post any other information as you get it!

Good to see good feedback always happy to help there is no released info on updated channels I will be getting more info very shortly as far as local channels I like going OTA since there is no compression its the best possible picture that being if your close to an antenna of course

I emailed the operator of HDTVTwincities.com with this info hopefully my company dont care =) they want most this stuff kept internal and said not to discuss it with the press but I dont consider this the press =)

ComcastRep,
We sure do appreciate all your help with this. Thanks for sharing your info.
I too hope that the channel line up will include CBS, etc., as fall football games will be so great in HD!

I CAN'T WAIT for St. Paul's Comcast to roll it all out.
This is going to be a long month or two.

Keep the info coming!
Thanks!

ComcastRep,
Were you fired for sharing info? Or can you please continue to update us? I am DYING for Comcast in St. Paul to make HD available to us.
When will we have it?

We have locals in the club receiving HDTV via Comcast for test correct?

How does it look?
What channels do you receive in HD?

Please share....

God, I sure hope he wasn't fired. I would think leaking info to a crowd like us would be good. Otherwise, how many of us (impatient as we are) would go get a D* or E* setup.... or OTA only.

It's not like he's giving away trade secrets or more than could be inferred by making 2-3 calls to customer support and putting the info together. It's just nice to hear it from yet another source.

I'm now in the wait-and-see mode. My Samsung 151 works great, PBS is awesome, and the primetime shows are fun to watch. Also, we get HD-Net OTA soon. I can't believe how bad the analog feed off comcast truly is...

I'll be sitting tight at least for the next year while D* tries to figure out how to get more Bandwidth, E* gets their superdish and new receivers out, and Comcast gets a decent suite of HD channels. I'll go with the winner.

Cheers!
Brad

One of 3 things are likely here regarding ComcastRep:

1) He was told to clam-up.
2) He was fired.
3) He was not legitimate.

It would be nice to know what happened. Seems if a rollout was scheduled for late August / early September, we would have heard something by now.

I am one of the Comcast "Beta Testers". According to my installer, there are about 50-100 such testers in the Minneapolis area. I was asked to sign a statement that I would not tell folks about this, especially the media. I believe that they are still evaluating prices, channels, desire for the service and trouble processes. Currently, they are offering channels 9 and 11, ESPN-HD and HBO/SHOW HD. (The latter assumes it is in your digital package). They will charge $5 a month for the box. Other channels are being considered/negotiated.
Box can output 480p, 720p, 1180i and defaults to 480i for non-HD broadcasts. Passes audio directly through, for use in stereo/surround system. Connects to component inputs.
Service introduction dates have not been defined or announced.
The trial and rollout was announced on HDTV Minneapolis website (hdtvtwincities.com)
Picture quality is what we would expect, with minimal access to HD material. Matches quality of my OTA access. Makes the Sopranos in HD look outstanding, and I'm excited about ESPN possibilities.
It's difficult to find Comcast personnel who are familiar with the trial or coming service, but I believe they are shooting for a September/October roll out. I would suspect that availability of boxes may be an issue.
Hope this helps.

Drool... Sounds like it's actually going to happen soon. Thanks for the info. Now if I could just get a TiVo that records HD cable I'd be a happy man...

I know... I wish that my ReplayTV units recorded HDTV too, but nope.

In the paper today the announced that HDTV is available. If you get somebody that says it is not available, call back. I first got a sales person that said it was an ealy announcement. I called back after reading more and have an appointment for Monday Sept 8.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/6685461.htm
http://www.startribune.com/stories/459/4077622.html

Comcast has just officially rolled out their HDTV service here in Saint Paul and the eastern metro suburbs TODAY!

I called immediately this morning and signed up for the soonest installation time slot... which is 6 days from now, but it could be worse.

I am so excited that it is finally here.:)

I just got off the phone with Comcast. I placed my HD order, but they seemed very confused as to how to even process it. They told me I was the first one to request this! (?) Install scheduled for next week!

I called around noon and got a very knowledgable CSR that knew it was the first day it is being offered in the Twin Cities. I scheduled my install for next Wednesday after work. I confirmed with her multiple times that the install would include the correct HD cable box etc and that HDTV would work in my area. She seemed very confident all would go well with the install etc.

I can't wait to dump Dishnetwork next week. I also signed up for internet from comcast at a $23 a month rate for 6 months. Bye bye Qwest DSL!

klaus9000,
Which box (model#) will it be?

I cannot say for sure, but all that I have heard they will be using the Motorola DCT5100.

This is the box:

http://www.comcast.com/images/ImageLibrary/ContentManager/PDF/DCT5100%20guide%20April03.pdf

Thanks berg & Dave.
So I assume that it will have componant out that I can run to my Panny PT-L300U front projector?

THe sales person did ask if I had an open HDTV component input, so I hope they have proper cables. I bet they will be cheaper that will need to be replaced by better cables. If you have a reciever I believe they do not give audio cables to the reciever.

I plan to swap the new box with my Sami T151 - although I guess I will need it for ABC,CBS, and PBS until they carry those. I noticed the 151 are starting to drop on Ebay so I hope they add all the locals soon - so I can sell the Sami and recover some cash.

I only have two components inputs on my TV so I will need to figure something out...maybe a switch box. I have DVD, PS2, T151, new cable box.

I'm in the same boat as far as TV component inputs. My Hitachi has 2 inputs, but now I'll have DVD, Xbox and Cable Box signals. I just bought one of these yesterday:

http://www.zektor.com/hds4/index.htm

It's spendy, but should do exactly what I want, including switching digital audio.

Comcast Launches HDTV Service in Twin Cities & Western Wisconsin
More Than 630,000 Homes Now Have Access to High-Definition Television Programming

ST. PAUL, Minn. (Sept. 4, 2003) — Comcast, the nation’s leading cable and broadband communications provider, today announced the launch of its high-definition television (HDTV) service to more than 630,000 homes in the Greater Twin Cities and Western Wisconsin area. HDTV programming is now available from HBO, Showtime, ESPN HD and KARE (NBC). Comcast is also carrying enhanced wide-screen digital programming from KMSP (Fox), and plans to launch two 24-hour HDTV channels, INHD and INHD2, later this month.

HDTV technology provides video and audio that is clearer, sharper and more vibrant than previous video transmission systems. The service is available for customers with an HDTV-ready television set and uses a digital cable box, which can be provided by Comcast. In addition, Comcast is working with leading cable and broadcast programmers to offer the most robust HDTV content lineup possible.

“Comcast is committed to bringing our customers more and better choices for in-home entertainment,” said Bill Wright, St. Paul Area Vice President. “In an increasingly competitive environment, we’ve completed a multimillion dollar upgrade of our fiber-optic cable network to provide customers with a strong lineup of cutting-edge products, including Comcast Digital Cable, Comcast High-Speed Internet, Comcast Digital Phone and now HDTV. Customers want HDTV, and Comcast makes it easy and cost effective while providing a very rich HDTV content offering.”

In addition to HDTV, customers who subscribe to Comcast Digital Cable can receive more than 260 channels, including dozens of commercial-free premium movie channels, 45 channels of commercial-free music, an interactive on-screen guide and more.

For more information about Comcast’s products and services in the Twin Cities, please call 651-222-3333 or visit the company’s Web site at www.comcast.com.

About Comcast Cable
Headquartered in Philadelphia, Comcast Cable is a division of Comcast Corporation, a developer, manager and operator of broadband cable networks and provider of programming content. Operating in 17 of the United States’ 20 largest metropolitan areas, Comcast is one of the leading communications, media and entertainment companies in the world. Providing basic cable, digital cable, high-speed Internet and telephone services, Comcast is the company to look to first for the communications products and services that connect people to what’s important in their lives. The company’s 55,000 employees, in six divisions, serve more than 21 million customers.

Comcast Cable serves more than 337,000 customers in 87 communities in the Twin Cities and Western Wisconsin. Comcast, whose local headquarters offices are located in St. Paul, employs more than 1,200 people in the Twin Cities metropolitan area.

Product Summary Sheet
High-Definition TV — St. Paul Area
September 2003

Programming
Comcast is introducing HDTV in the Twin Cities / Western Wisconsin with a mix of local broadcast and premium cable network high-definition content. We continue to explore additional HDTV programming opportunities and plan to be in a position to provide additional programming in the future.

· Broadcast Stations – Primary high-definition broadcast signals:

¨ NBC affiliate KARE-11 (1080p)

¨ Fox affiliate KMSP-9 (480p)

+enhanced-definition digital simulcast of KMSP’s analog signal (480i)

· Basic / Digital Service Tiers – HD cable service channels (must receive service tier):

¨ ESPN HD – Standard Cable Tier (720p)

¨ INDEMAND1 - Digital Basic Tier (1080i)

¨ INDEMAND2 – Digital Basic Tier (1080i)

· Premium Channels: HD premium channels (must receive digital premium channels):

¨ HBO (1080i)

¨ Showtime (1080i)

Availability
Comcast HDTV programming is now available to more than 630,000 homes in the Greater Twin Cities and Western Wisconsin area.

Equipment
· Motorola DCT-5100 set-top

¨ video: component video output

¨ audio: Dolby Digital 5.1 via optic or coax connection

Pricing
High-definition TV is the next great example of the services we can deliver on the Comcast Digital Cable platform. Customers pay only a monthly HDTV equipment charge of $5 per month (per set-top) — with no additional monthly charge for HDTV programming (ESPN HD, iDEMAND, HBO and Showtime HDTV channels are available only to customers who receive those services).

If anybody has had theirs installed, is the cables they provide junk that need should be replaced immediately? I am thinking I may get a few good cables to have ready.

The cables used for installation are quality, high-density cables. Five condutors (R,B,Y and audio left and right). You will need your own cables for digital or optical connection to your home theater/stereo.

If you need any additional connections (like a second analog audio output), you'll need cables for that, and splitters, since there is only one set of audio output jacks. The box also has a composite video out, but you should not need that.

Box effortlessly switches between HD content and 480i content. Box comes set for 1080i output. Tech can show you how to access box menu and setup features.

In terms of quality of signal, I get virtually the same picture (HD) on Motorolla DCT5100 as I do my Samsung T-150 (OTA). Currently, Comcast has only NBC, ESPN-HD, SHO/HBO-HD, and Fox EDTV. Yesterday started getting INHD-1 preview channel, and notice that service starts for INHD on 9/15.

My comcast HDTV gets connected tomorrow (Wednesday 9/10) morning. I can't wait! I'll let you all know how it goes.

By the way, any of you Twin Citians have a Panasonic PT-L300U front projector? Just wondering if I need to know any special settings or anything for HDTV.

Markito- how did it go? I'm scheduled for Friday evening. What cables did they supply, and are they quality or crap? I'm assuming they're not going to be supplying a digital audio cable?

I had my install on Monday. They did supply component cables that look good, but not audio. In my case the component cable that they supplied was bad so I replaced it to get HD cable working. Depending on your installer be ready to do much of the work yourself. My installer was clueless on HDTV. He left it working with S-Video only.

DaveMN,
He arrived at 10am this morning. He was a very nice guy, but this was his first HD install and he was quite nervous. Plus I think he was rather intimidated by my 12-foot diagonal projector screen and receiver. He admitted that he and the other installers were brand new to HDTV and really were very clueless about the whole thing.

He came and installed the Motorola 5100 box... o.k., I installed it. Plugging the stuff in was easy, now I just have to check signal output on the 5100 and change it to the ideal setting for my Panny PT-L300U front projector.

He came with the Moto 5100 cable box and two generic looking (off-white) component cables (one long, one short). I needed the short one, so that's what we used. I asked him if he could leave the long one too, he called into his office and they said no, so I said no biggie. For audio the component cable actually has a set of red and white composite audio cables attached to it, but since the 5100 has an optical audio out, I used one of my Toslink cables to connect audio to my receiver.

HBOHD looked great. Most of the other of the handful of HD channels were running non-HD content at the time, so I couldn't enjoy them at the time. But it was nice to compare the clarity of HBOHD with the less crisp standard channels.

The installer seemed relieved that I did the install and that all went well. He said that he had several more HD installs today and was worried that it wouldn't go as smoothly. His buddy/co-installer on the other end of his cell phone was having troubles at some other location. He was a very nice fella and I felt sorry for him that he didn't get enough training and was just thrown out there.

Anyway, life is good!
Thanks for your interest DaveMN.

Must... wait.... until.... Friday.... ;)

Thanks for the info. I just got my Zektor component switcher today. All I need now are a couple of toslink cables, and I should be ready for my installation Friday. One thing I won't have to worry about is the installer being intimidated by my system!

I have a general question about Comcast's HDTV programming, and since I live near the Twin Cities I'll ask it in this thread:

Is the HD version of a channel a different channel (number) from the SD version? For example, KARE-11 has an HD signal and also SD. Are they two different channels, or is it just one, and when it's an HD program (like "The Tonight Show") you'll get the HD signal, and when it's a SD program (like the news) you'll get an SD signal?

My family gets confused enough with all the buttons to press for analog cable, the VCR, and DVD. Having two channel-11's may be too much.

Thanks!

They are indeed different channels.

NBC(SD) is 11 and NBCHD is something like 112.

Incidentally, everybody check out channel 174 it is a visually stunning loop of stuff for INHD (whatever that is). It took my breath away. I think the loop runs 24/7, but it said that from 7-11pm every night they will have a preview of the real programming that is supposed to launch on Sept. 15th.

I just stumbled across the channel and boy am I glad I did. It is perfect for demonstrating how beautiful HDTV can be.

Incidentally, I learned from a Moto 5100 FAQ on the web that the way to get at the service menu to change the output is to...

Turn the 5100 off and then press the menu button on the remote. Then after making changes, just press the menu button again and turn the box back on. Pretty sneaky.

Thought y'all should know.

Here's some more info on INHD:

http://www.inhd.com

By the way, I know in most markets there is a PBS HD video loop with beautiful HD images. Does anyone know if we have access to it in Saint Paul (via Comcast)?

I got my HDTV box setup and installed yesterday. The installer was very nice and seemed to understand how to get everything setup. They even supplied a set of component video and analog audio cables of very good quality it appears - Nice!

I ran my component video out into my projector and fed the composite and S-Video out through my receiver into a 27" TV. I figured the S-Video would be better than the composite when watching SD material on the TV, however there is a severe redness to the picture using the S-Video but not when using the composite. Anyone else having this experience or know how to fix it? I would prefer to use the S-Video output, but if it's going to have this red-push to it then the composite will have to do.

Sean

By the way, ESPNHD, HBOHD, and INHD look fabulous. Should I change my box setup to 720p from 1080i when watching ESPNHD? I have it set at 1080i now and it looks great, but I'm wondering if it would be best to manually switch it to 720p when watching ESPNHD. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Originally posted by berg0449
I had my install on Monday. They did supply component cables that look good, but not audio. In my case the component cable that they supplied was bad so I replaced it to get HD cable working. Depending on your installer be ready to do much of the work yourself. My installer was clueless on HDTV. He left it working with S-Video only.


Unfortunately it happens down here in Florida also. I work for a local A/V company and the local cable service calls us on the customers phone (if we sold them the Tv) to find out where to hook up their component cables. Its good that we can work with them instead of fight with them.

In case it hasn't been listed lately, here is the current local Comcast HD channel line up...

112 KARE (NBC)

114 KMSP (FOX)

173 ESPN

174 INHD (Not officially listed by Comcast. Beautiful loop of HD vid. clips until it launches on Sept. 15th)

551 (HBO)

576 (SHO)



If you know of any others, please add to the list. Oh, and I am still wondering if there is a pbsHD channel anywhere.

Oh, and by the way, I still get a 2-3 inch band of black across the top and bottom of my 16:9 screen while watching HDTV via Comcast. I heard that this is to be expected. Does everyone else have that too?

Huh? Do you have links to discussions on the black bars? Is this a limitation because of the aspect ratio of the source material, or is this Comcast altering the aspect ratio?

Why does everything HDTV-related have to be 2 steps forward and one step back? :confused:

I believe it is the picture sent. I watched OC a few days ago and that picture filled the screen. Most TV I have watched otherwise does not.

I got my Comcast installed last night. The installer actually seemed to know what he was doing. I asked him if he had done many HD installs and he said he hadn't. Turns out he was a repair tech that was called in to do installs because of all the HD business. Activation of the 5100 took a call into the office and a trip through the service menu but all of a sudden it blinked on and worked.

He brought a long component cable that looked of good quality - I asked him if I could have it even though I was using my own, he said sure. The optical out was plugged so I used the digital coax and it seems to work fine. Picture looks great on the HD channels. I didn't have a chance to compare Leno to my OTA T151 but I will tonight. HBO had a couple movies on last night that looked great and the INHD loop was also impressive. I just hope Comcast gets the rest of the locals and HDNET soon, I would like to ebay my Samsung 151.

klaus,
Re you sure that the optical out is plugged on your 5100? I think it is just the hinged doggy door on it. Just push in on it. My optical out works beautifully.

I stayed up until 3am last night because I couldn't tear myself away from my new HDTV signal.

I watched Leno and was amazed by the crisp, clarity and rich colors. I won't say that it looked almost 3D, but it did have great depth to it. And this was all on my 12-foot diagonal projector screen, so you know it is clear and crisp if it can be beamed 15 feet across a room and stretched that much and still look to die for.

Then I watched a few movies on HBOHD.

ESPNHD's aspect ratio looked stretched, so I think I may have to change the "override" output setting to 720.

Man I love having HDTV.

Yeah it's possible that the optical is just plugged I didn't try it. My receiver recommends digital coax over optical so I am going to stay with that for now.

I asked about the DVI port being active but the installer said he didn't know. I have a digital projector here at work that I bring home sometimes - would love to try it with HD.

I am planning on watching some HBO movies tonight. ESPN-HD is definately stetched and I can't override it with my TV - annoying. Is this how ESPN-HD shows all their upconverted events??? I will have to figure something out because the quality is still better then regular ESPN.

ESPN-HD conveniently adds the stretch to its SD content. They say that their customers prefer it. Read the last question at http://espn.go.com/espnhd/ask_expert.html

Well it's nice of them to make that decision for us...... Just like those local station that likes to add the black bars to SD content and ruin our screens with burn in...

I was re-wiring last night and ran out of digital coax cable - ended up using a optical cable I bought for my CD player back when they were like $80. Tried it on the 5100 and just like you mentioned there was a doggie dog and it worked great.

Anyone know if the DVI port works?

I heard a rumor that it doesn't, but give it a try.
My projector's DVI port isn't HDCP compliant, so it can't do HDTV via DVI, only component. But I'm fine with that because I am using the projector's DVI port for my DVD player and we will be watching more DVDs than watching the tiny handful of HDTV channels for now.

klaus, I'm glad that the optical worked out for you.

Klaus, if you're interested in selling that T151, I'd be happy to buy it. I'm local, you could save yourself the headache of shipping, etc. Unfortunately I'm stuck on Charter cable, and their lineup of HDTV broadcasts consists of HBO and Showtime? Anyway, e-mail me mike@fastec.com if you're interested in selling it.

Thanks!

-Mike

I still need it for Monday night football :)

But as soon as Comcast gets all the HD locals added I will hit you with an email.

Wow - true HD content looks fabulous! InHD's preview loops are just stunning! Can't wait for the Vikings game on Sunday night!

I have found that all my non-HD channels look much better through my s-video connection than through the component connection. Has anyone else had that experience?

And okay, here's probably a dumb question... How do I change the output format from the box? I can get into the diagnostic menu (by shutting off the power and pressing OK) to see the user setting status, which reflects that output is currently set to 1080i with the 4:3 override set to 480p. But I can't figure out how to manually change the settings. The setup menu doesn't seem to have any of those options. Can someone tell me how to change those settings?

There's a detailed FAQ on the Motorola box at:
http://cjhengineering.com/5100faq.htm

See if it helps you out. (I get mine tonight) :)

Thanks, Dave! For anyone else who doesn't already know, you access that menu by turning the box off and then pressing menu.

Good luck with your install tonight, Dave!

Originally posted by cielo
the 4:3 override set to 480p.

Is that what we are supposed to set the "Override" at?


Dave, I'm very excited for you.

Earlier today I watched the beginning of "Across Enemy Lines" (I think it's called that) on HBOHD and it looked fabulous and the 5.1 surround sound kicked butt with the jetfighters zooming by!

Markito, I assume that 480p is a better override setting than 480i. The disadvantage is that the menu and guide won't show up when you're on any input other than the component input. I also use the s-video input because the non-hd channels (especially the analog ones) look like crap through the component input. I think the only way to get the menu and guide to display on other inputs is to set the override to "off."

Well, I've joined the ranks. Installer was a friendly tech who said he didn't usually do installs, but was drafted into service because of high demand. Installation went smoothly with one exception. Turns out the Motorola remote codes conflict with my Zektor component video switcher. Everytime I'd change the cable channel, the switcher would select a different input! Luckily the switcher can be taught to learn other remote codes, so I have that to look forward to. Until then I've covered the sensor on the switcher.

First HD channel I tried with my Hitachi 57SWX20B TV was INHD. They were playing some horrible movie from the 80's, and I was unimpressed. After the movie, they ran a loop featuring upcoming programs. This video was VERY impressive, especially the nature photography. I next checked out Boomtown on KAREHD. It was widescreen and looked good, but didn' knock my socks off. Finally I flipped on the Tonight Show. Again, I was VERY impressed, and it wasn't just because Pamela Anderson was in HD.

So I was most impressed with the nature photography on INHD and the Tonight Show. The INHD movie and Boomtown left me a bit disappointed. Looking forward to the Vikes in HD Sunday night.

I also got my TiVo and the cable box to play nice together. I ran the SD channels to the TiVo with coax, and ran the component cables to my switcher and into a different input on the TV. I also set my 4:3 override to 480p so that the graphics are suppressed through the TiVo.

Congrats Dave! Keep the info and reactions coming!

Dave, congratulations! Glad your installation went relatively well. I agree with you that that INHD movie was very unimpressive. I had some friends over at that time who wanted to see what a high def broadcast looked like, and there was nothing worthwhile to show them. Too bad they weren't here later when The Tonight Show came on because, as you said, it looked great! 24 hours until the Vikes game!

So if ESPNHD stretches their shows, what setting should we put our
5100's and TVs/projectors so the Vikes game tonight won't looked
stretched? Or will it automatically not be stretched because it will be true HD
content?

Thanks,

This is only slightly relavent to the topic of HDTV in the Twin Cities, but I'll post it here since this is an active thread right now. I was wondering if anyone monitoring this thread (maybe ComcastRep?) has an inside connection at Comcast in the Twin Cities? I am looking for a contact regarding having Comcast service run to my neighborhood.

I'm moving to a development north of Hastings and there's about 40 homes there. Comcast has service all around, but not in this development. Cable just isn't there. Calls to the regular customer service reps get the run-around or they just say it isn't available in my area and they have no idea when it will be. They just say that when enough people call, they'll consider running service.

I'm looking to find a person I can talk to to lobby for establishing cable service in may neighborhood. These are fairly upscale homes, so I'm sure that the people living there would also be purchasing premium channels and broadband internet.

If anyone could give me a name and a phone number or e-mail, please PM me.

Thanks in advance and for tolerating an off topic post.:)

I got my hdtv installed on friday.

I set over-ride to 480i.

I compared s-video to component connection for 480i. The s-video connection was better than the component.

Then I replace the comcast supplied 12 foot component cable with a 6 foot one that I had purchased at Radio Shack that day. This time the Component inputs were superior to the s-video with 480i. Suggest you others try that. My TV is a Sony 32" hs-20.

Also first code for Jerrold has worked for my remotes (now have access to dct 5100 from my two sony remotes, both receiver and hs-20). I am impressed with the remote supplied with the dct 5100. It would be perfect if it could drive my picture-in-picture in the hs-20.

The HDTV picture is great. I wish there was more content. I am looking forward to the two INHD channels from tomorrow (Sept 15th), and am looking forward to the vikings tonight. :cool:

Those Vikes are lookin' beautiful on ESPNHD tonight! And y'all were right. The stretching stopped as soon as the game started (though the non HD commercials stretched). Lovin' the HDTV!

The Vikes look great, but why is ESPN not broadcasting the game in 5.1?! I'm also surprised that they don't do the pre-game and half-time show in Hd. By the way, anyone else see the horizontal video blips during the first half? What's up with that?

Do we know if any of the many "Vikes on Fox" games will air in Hi-Def on KMSP-HD (FoxHD)?

Why didn't Fox broadcast the game in HD :( It was standard def here, unless I have something screwed up in my T150 config.

-Mike

Hi Mike,
Are you talking about Channel 5? There is a string discussing that on the TPT board at: http://tpt.org/innertube/inside/bbs/. Apparently, there were a bunch of problems with Channel 5's signal last night.

Also, I noticed on that board that there was a discussion about the game not being in 5.1. Apparently, it wasn't until the 3rd quarter that it showed up in 5.1. By that time I had turned off my stereo because I don't like it when dialogue is in stereo instead of coming out of the center channel.

Game looked great and everyone I had over to watch it was very impressed. I am using the supplied cable and I think it looks great. Standard channels look poor as I was used to with Dishnetwork. I will hook the 5100 up using the Monster cable I am currently using for my DVD to see if it makes a difference.

I was also wondering why the game on ESPNHD was not in 5.1? Is this standard for ESPN games to only be in stereo?

I noticed while watching FOX coverage that although the games were not widescreen - the highlights were. The studio coverage was also in widescreen most of the time. I wish ESPN would finish their new studio and get HD sports center up and running.

Anyone have a schedule of possible Wild game coverage in HD? I know there was talk about Victory sports or INHD doing some coverage.

To clarify: Yesterday's game was on ABC (and ESPN), not FOX.

Anyone having a problem with INHD? I am getting "One Moment Please" when tuned to 174. I am on hold with Comcast right now - so far all I am getting is "it's a signal strenght issue" and "it's a pay per view channel" - even though it has been coming in great all last week. So I am waiting for someone that knows something to get on the phone..... And I wanted to see Full Metal Jacket....

I will check later tonight.

Also, do we know which channel "INHD2" is on?

She said 175.

Yes, INHD2 is supposed to be on channel 175, but it's still not even showing up in the channel guide. Comcast's reps don't have a clue about why it hasn't been launched yet, and they have no idea why INHD is having troubles. They have no estimate as to when INHD will be repaired, and they know nothing whatsoever about INHD2. The rep with whom I spoke said she would forward my inquiry to someone who could address it and have that person call me back. Based on previous inquiries that have been handled that way, I give Comcast about a 20% chance of calling me back at all.

I've been waiting more than five months for them to fix the 5.1 problem with Starz and Showtime. It took a very high-level guy at the cable head-in office in Roseville that long to determine that their vendor is not passing along those signals in 5.1, despite the fact that Comcast has claimed (and most of their people have believed) all along that they provide those channels in 5.1. He says that they're negotiating with their vendor to correct the problem. Sigh.

By the way, INHD and INHD2 are NOT pay-per-view channels, as plainly stated on their website (http://www.inhd.com/about/faq.jsp).

I posted this on the TPT forum after someone also stated that they are having the problem.... This is my first experience with Comcast, only had the service for a week.

Ok, great so there is a problem at Comcast. I just spent 30 minutes on the phone with 2 different levels of tech support. First level told me the same thing - it's pay per view and it appears you do not have a good signal. I tried a bunch of different solutions including taking all splitters out to satisfy the tech that it wasn't a signal issue.

Second level of tech support also said it's In Demands HD pay per view channel (after she looked up the channel). I told her no it's owned by In Demand but is part of the HD tier. She talked to several other techs and claimed there were no other calls about it. She tried to pass it off as my problem. I asked if she had a HD box there to try the channel on - she said they do not have a HD box in the support center...... She said she would contact the right people to look into it.... Whatever that means.....

Yep, same here... no INHD as of today. I'm glad you pointed out the FAQ which clearly states it is NOT PPV.

I can't wait until this gets straightened out.

INHD is up and running today, and INHD2 is now showing up in the channel guide. However, it says not authorized and to press OK for ordering information (which doesn't do anything). Is Comcast going to make INHD2 a pay channel?

I found this post in the following thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302126
I called Comcast to try to get them to send a hit to my box in an attempt to get INHD2 to show up. Well, the CSR said there was only one kind of "hit" they could do and it had to reboot the cable box. So I said why not and let them send a hit and viola, INHD2 appears on 175. For anybody that has problems receiving INHD2 and getting the "not authorized" message should try calling Comcast and getting a hit sent to their box. It worked for the INHD preview and it worked with INHD2 so it seems as if a hit to the box works well.

I won't be able to try this myself until this evening, so let me know if this helps.

Thanks, Dave! I just called Comcast. Unfortunately, their computer system is down so they have to call me back to send the "hit" to my box. Hopefully, this will work. Thanks again!

Well, I just got home and fired-up INHD and INHD2. I have access to both, but both channels are completely pixelated and are unwatchable. The audio is also cutting out. Anyone else having issues?

In a few minutes of INHD1 the shows looked fine for me. the INHD2 is not authorized for me. They just rehit the box and that did not appear to work. When I called they seemed to be aware of the issue via tech email. They just said if it is still not working by Wednesday call back.

Aarrgghhh. My INHD pictures are crap. They tried re-hitting my box, but that didn't fix it. I have a service call scheduled for tomorrow night. No problems with KAREHD.

Well, they tried re-hitting my box but didn't know which signal hit to send. So then they totally restarted my box, and that didn't work either. They're looking into the problem and say they will call me back. LOL - they didn't return my last call either.

Meanwhile, is everyone else seeing the horrible picture quality on NBC and Fox right now? My HD signal for Frasier is worse than an SD signal on the oldest TV I own. ESPN looks like crap right now too, but I think it's an SD signal stretched. HBOHD and INHD still look great.

When I checked the two INHD channels, they both said, "One Moment Please", or something like that. Then they both kicked in and look beautiful!

INHD2 had a stunning show on jellyfish-like creatures that looked so clear and almost 3-D, that I couldn't get the grin off my face.

I Love my HDTV!

cielo,
I didn't watch those shows, but I caught a few minutes of the Whoopi show and it looked really good (visually) to me.

Law and Order looks good now on NBC. Maybe it was just Frasier and whatever the show was that was on Fox at the same time. Even Law and Order doesn't match up to INHD and HBO though (or even to previous NBC HD broadcasts I've seen).

Markito and Dave, I don't understand how you two are getting INHD2 when others of us are still "not authorized." They don't seem to be able to figure out what's causing the problem yet. The rep told me she would call me back in 15 minutes ... it's been almost 90 minutes. I'm not optimistic. I wish I would have been able to see that INHD2 show on jelly-fish-like creatures. Sounds like it was great.

Dave, I hope they fix your pixelization problem. You're missing some beautiful broadcasts on INHD. The baseball game tonight was visually fantastic.

My pixelization problems seem to have magically cleared up, so I'm now getting INHD 1 & 2 in beautifully. Wow- the picture is sweeeet!

I got home around 6pm and tried INHD1&2, both come in perfectly and no more "one moment please" messages. I went through the other HD programs and they also looked great . I am glad that Comcast was able to figure out the problem and fix it. I just hope in the future they don't assume every issue is the fault of the customer in this case it was them.... At least it saved me a service call.

Originally posted by cielo
Law and Order looks good now on NBC. Maybe it was just Frasier and whatever the show was that was on Fox at the same time. Even Law and Order doesn't match up to INHD and HBO though (or even to previous NBC HD broadcasts I've seen).

Markito and Dave, I don't understand how you two are getting INHD2 when others of us are still "not authorized." They don't seem to be able to figure out what's causing the problem yet. The rep told me she would call me back in 15 minutes ... it's been almost 90 minutes. I'm not optimistic. I wish I would have been able to see that INHD2 show on jelly-fish-like creatures. Sounds like it was great.

Dave, I hope they fix your pixelization problem. You're missing some beautiful broadcasts on INHD. The baseball game tonight was visually fantastic.

Cielo,
I hope your problems clear up fast. That's no fun. Hopefully since Klaus now gets INHD, you will get it now too. Here's wishing you the best.

I'm still stuck with the not authorized message on INHD2. They have placed a request for a field service tech to call me now. I don't understand why I'm still having this problem when it seems almost everyone else is past it. Sigh.

I don't understand it either. It just doesn't make any sense.

I just got back home to find a voice message from a Comcast tech saying they fixed the problem. And finally - - it really is fixed. Hooray!

I just encountered this website, and it has lots of useful news and information about HDTV here in the Twin Cities:
http://www.hdtvtwincities.com/pages/1/index.htm

That's excellent news cielo! Glad it got sorted out.

Well, my pixelation problems have returned. It's not noticable with static images, but when there is a fair amount of movement it becomes unwatchable. I have another service call scheduled for Friday night, but do any of you have any idea what could be causing this? I thought my component video switcher might be introducing some noise, but I still saw the problem when I bypassed it. Could it be some sort of electrical interference and/or poorly shielded cables? Maybe a signal strength issue?

DaveMN,

Could be a signal strength problem (e.g., too many splitters, running cable thru VCR before STB). A simple diagnostic using the DCT5100 box is described at http://www.cjhengineering.com/5100diag.htm .

You are interested in IN-BAND STATUS and OOB STATUS, esp. SNR and AGC. Should be "Good" or "Fair".

Thanks- I'll try that tonight.

Ok bart745, here are my readings. It looks like there might be a problem with the IN-BAND STATUS. Can you tell me what this means, is it likely the culprit, and how it might be corrected? Thanks for your help.

OOB STATUS:
SNR: 20.9 GOOD
AGC 23% GOOD

IN-BAND STATUS:
SNR: 29.0 POOR
AGC: 99% POOR

I don't know what to suggest but this indicates where the problem is.

Search the AVSforums for threads by miatasm. He is the author of the DCT5100 FAQ I cited above and is capable of giving professional help.

I posted this in the Motorola box thread, but thought I'd repost it here as well:

Well, the Comcast tech has come and gone. He isolated my INHD pixelization problems to low signal strength at the Motorola box. He found there were a couple of cheap 600MHz splitters and some cheap cable in the house that were degrading the signal to the box. The splitters were replaced and he even gave me some replacement cable, all free of charge since it's still within 30 days of my HDTV install.

He took some measurements, and the changes seem to have brought the signal up to the acceptable range. He also mentioned that INHD seemed to be more sensitive to signal strength problems than other HD channels.

So far the baseball game on INHD looks great! Hopefully it will stay that way...

Hi Dave,
Glad to hear your problems seem to have been resolved. If signal strength causes you any problems in the future, Electroline amps/splitters are great. You can get them from Comcast for under $50 (and possibly for less on eBay), and they'll boost the signal to multiple TVs. Enjoy your better reception!

Is anyone else having problems getting INHD and INHD2 to tune in immediately when changing to those channels? When I flip over to them it sometimes takes a couple minutes until the channel tunes in. Until the channel tunes in I get a message of "wait a moment, this channel will be available shortly" or something like that.

Has anyone else had this experience or know of how to fix the problem?

Sean

Mine tune in right away.... I get the quick half second un-scramble but that's about it.

What other channels is Comcast planning to add to their HDTV offering? I am getting greedy :)

My INHD channels are actually tuning in immediately today, without even the half second unscramble.

And klaus9000, I ditto your sentiment! I'd especially like to see them add CBS, ABC, PBS and Discovery. I've heard that they're in negotiations with Discovery, but apparently CBS and ABC will be more complicated. I have no idea about PBS or any other channels.

Is anyone else having problems getting INHD and INHD2 to tune in immediately when changing to those channels? When I flip over to them it sometimes takes a couple minutes until the channel tunes in. Until the channel tunes in I get a message of "wait a moment, this channel will be available shortly" or something like that.

Has anyone else had this experience or know of how to fix the problem?

Sean

Sorry I've been out of the conversation for a few days, I was in Mexico.
But now I'm back.

DaveMN, so glad to hear that your pixelation issue was resolved, I'm glad that I have never experienced that.


I too am dying for those channels that you guys mentioned.

And avguy, I'm afraid that I haven't had that INHD "wait a moment" problem since the first day that the network officially kicked in. Keep calling and bugging Comcast until they get it resolved.

I got the install from Comcast on 9/18 and I have had some problems. I have never been able to get anything but 'Not Authorized' on ESPN-HD, INHD1, and INHD2. Comcast Support is clearly not prepared to provide help with the HD services as I've been told that various channels were available / not available, and pay/ not pay depending on whom I was speaking to. I had support reboot the box tonight, to no effect. I have scheduled a tech call for Friday. Any further ideas? What should I expect from the tech call? I'm a bit frustrated by the whole thing...

All I can say is that the rest of us get ESPN-HD, INHD & INHD2 with the package... they are available as we speak and definitely NOT Pay-Per-View.
Good luck and sorry to hear of your problems.

Hi cardinal23,
The telephone support people are definitely NOT trained well for HDTV, but hopefully your tech on Friday will be knowledgeable. The tech who did my install knew what he was doing for the most part, although he said they were given very little training. Apparently, they had 4 hours of classroom training without any hands-on work almost 3 months prior to the first install, and that was it.

Markito is right. All of those stations are available and should be included in the package at no extra charge. The INHD channels are from InDemand, so that is why some of the support people incorrectly think that they are pay-per-view channels.

Just keep on Comcast until they fix your problems. Good luck with your tech call on Friday.

I now have Comcast HDTV, but am dying to get ABC-HD, CBS-HD, PBS-HD, Discovery-HD, etc.

I know they are available via OTA, but I am brand new to that.
I plan on buying the Radio Shack 15-1880 http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=&product%5Fid=15%2D1880
, but I am wondering what I would attach the cable from the antenna to.

Could it just go to my receiver? Or do I have to buy some TV tuner thing like a Samsung or Zenith unit for it to connect to my front projector?

Please help me wade through these new waters.

Thanks,

Markito,

You will have to get a set-top box to get OTA signals. A proposal for you: Since I am going Comcast now (I hope), would you like to buy my Samsung SIR-t151 to get OTA? I was going to EBay it when I got around to it, but if you live near St. Paul we could meet up, which seems less of a hassle to me.

Apologies if this is inappropriate for this forum.

Markito,
Cardinal23 is right. You need a set top box . . . unless your TV has an HD tuner built in. Some of the Mitsubishi models have built in tuners, for example. If your TV is an HDTV "monitor" (most of them are), then you need a set top box.

I am in the same boat but am not planning to sell my T151 until Comcast adds all the HD networks. How much do you want for yours? I have a friend with a brand new HDTV looking for a 151 because he isn't covered by any cable HD company.

How does $150 sound? Go ahead and contact me at sparrow@rconnect.com if you're interested.

Thanks cardinal23, but I am strapped for cash these days after completing my home theater, plus my HT is in my basement and I don't want an antenna on my roof, so I am probably gonna have to pass.

But thanks for thinking of me.

Is anyone hooking up their Comcast HD cable to a HTPC? What HD card are you using? I am using the HiPix card and have it connected using the coax cable out of the way. The best picture I can get is 480 with the coax, I would really like to get 1080 if possible. Any ideas?

it is so clear, you can see the broken bone sticking out of Daunte's back!

Ewwwwww!

Speaking of the Vikings, since Sunday's (9/28) game aired on "Fox", did it air in HD on the Comcast FoxHD channel? I was not home, so I couldn't check.

No, it did not air in HD on Comcast, because Fox does not do any HD OTA or on Comcast. But it was in 480i widescreen and looked pretty good.

Has anyone else noticed that ESPN-HD (173) audio is not coming in as a 5.1 signal for Sunday night games, which are broadcast by ESPN in 5.1? I'm inquiring into the problem (we'll see if Comcast returns my call this time), but I suspect it's related to their vendor problem with the Starz and Showtime channels. Apparently, their vendor for those channels is not passing along the 5.1 signal and is instead sending it as 2.0. Maybe ESPN-HD is passed along to Comcast by the same vendor. Does anyone know?

Let's try to keep this thread alive and floating at the top of the list so that other Minnesotans stumbling by will become aware of it.
Thanks,

Anybody have any info regarding timelines for additional HD channels? Now that I've got my toe in the water, I want to dive in!

Dave, I wish someone knew but it seems like no one does - - even at Comcast.

I did find out that Comcast's vendor for ESPN-HD does NOT pass along the 5.1 signal to Comcast, so we won't be getting any 5.1 signals for that channel. Add that channel to the Starz channels and the Showtime channels, for which Comcast's vendor also does not pass along the 5.1 signals. Perhaps more of us should begin complaining about this problem so that Comcast will give more attention to negotiating better deals with its vendors.

I was also gettign this message when I had run my cable through my Monster Board 1100 to remove line noise. (channels 112 and 114 worked fine) But HBO, SHOW and INHD 1 and 2 I only received the "please wait "messages"

Once I hooked the cable back up directly to the STB (5100) the channels worked just fine.

Any Ideas?

Guys, just thought you should know that there is a thread entitled, "HDNET OTA in the Twin Cities" here...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=313791

Hopefully most Twin Cities posts will be done in this existing thread for that handy "One-Stop-Shop" feel.

I'm just wondering . . .
Has anyone else called Comcast to request that they get their vendors to correctly pass along the 5.1 signals for Showtime, Starz, Starz Theater, and ESPN-HD? It sure would be nice if they would fix this problem, but they don't have much incentive if people don't complain. This problem affects non-HD customers too (except for ESPN-HD), so if you know other Comcast users who have either the HD box or the 5.1 box, please pass along the word to them.

While you're at it, please add lack of ABC/PBS HD to the complaint list. The channels are even listed on the printed channel guide, but so far aren't available (at least in the Northeast metro).

Very good points cielo and jbaraga. We should ALL call in with those complaints immediately.

HDTV Rules!...... even if the Vikings did not last night :(

Thanks Markito!

So glad that you could join me in watching our beloved Vikings get trounced on my 12-foot diagonal screen. The game sucked, but visually... it was stunning. Good to see you found me here. You rock Steve.

Any word on Comcast adding ABC/PBS, and even possibly
CBS HD in the Twin Cities? I'm seriously considering buying an OTA STB for the locals/networks, but I've been holding out hope for Comcast. On the other hand, given the lack of recent activity in this thread, I'm starting to think that no lineup addition is going to happen for a while.

So, this is kind of an HD question, but not really. But it is a topic that's been covered in this thread...

I have had Comcast HD since it became available. I currently have DSL, but I think I'm going to switch to Cable. My question is this - I've read of lots of problems for people that already had Cable modems once they got HD. Since I already have HD, and am going to get a Cable modem, is there something I should specifically mention or ask for when I call to order to hopefully get set up right the first time? (I know, good luck) I know I've read some mention of particular splitters, etc.

One other question - Circuit City currently has a Motorola modem that is free after rebate, which saves $3 off your monthly Comcast bill. My question is, would having my own modem hurt me in terms of support if there are problems? Meaning, if something isn't working, will they say "sorry, you don't have one of our modems, you're on your own"? The $3 adds up over time, but I'm more than willing to spend it to prevent potential headaches down the road...

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Scott

Hi Scott,

I have Comcast's cable internet service and HDTV, and I haven't had any issues. My cable feed goes through an Electroline 4-way splitter/amplifier when it enters my house, with one of the outgoing cables going directly to my computer modem. You have to make sure that you get a very good splitter, and I strongly recommend a combo amp/splitter like I have. Electroline makes very high quality amps/splitters (don't buy one from Radio Shack or Home Depot!), and you can get them at a reasonable cost directly from Comcast (mine was less than $50). Plus, the amp will help your signal strength tremendously for all your TV lines. If it makes you feel better, I also have Comcast telephone service which also runs through my cable line. No problems with that thus far either. A technician told me that they reserve different frequencies for each separate service so that they don't interfere with each other.

Regarding the cable modem, I would be hesitant to buy one. I have one of Comcast's, and I'm on my second one now (I've had the service for about 2 1/2 years). The first one's power supply went bad over time. Since it was Comcast's, they came out and replaced it without any trouble. However, when I initially called them about the problem, they specifically looked up in their records whether I had one of theirs or one of my own. I definitely got the impression that they would have been much less helpful if it was my own modem. When you have problems, you will probably need them to diagnose the problem, and they did tell me that, if it had been my own modem, they would have charged me for a service call and any necessary repairs. Since it was their modem, it didn't cost me a dime.

By the way, make sure you ask for the combo discount. I get $4 off my internet bill because I have cable TV service too, and that more than pays for the monthly cost of the modem. Good luck!

Thanks for the great feedback - exactly what I was looking for!

I have Comcast's cable internet service and HDTV, and I haven't had any issues. My cable feed goes through an Electroline 4-way splitter/amplifier when it enters my house, with one of the outgoing cables going directly to my computer modem. You have to make sure that you get a very good splitter, and I strongly recommend a combo amp/splitter like I have. Electroline makes very high quality amps/splitters (don't buy one from Radio Shack or Home Depot!), and you can get them at a reasonable cost directly from Comcast (mine was less than $50). Plus, the amp will help your signal strength tremendously for all your TV lines. From what I've read when people first got HD hooked up, it was pretty apparent right away that there was a problem. I'll make sure to check out the HD signal as soon as I get the modem hooked up - hopefully before the "technician" even leaves. Then, I should know if I need the amplifier or not.
If it makes you feel better, I also have Comcast telephone service which also runs through my cable line. No problems with that thus far either. A technician told me that they reserve different frequencies for each separate service so that they don't interfere with each other.Quick question for you - what do the phone services run? Of course, the only prices that aren't listed on the website are the phone services. We're considering dropping our landline all together, but I've been curious what the basics would cost if we switch the phone to Comcast as well...Regarding the cable modem, I would be hesitant to buy one. I have one of Comcast's, and I'm on my second one now (I've had the service for about 2 1/2 years). The first one's power supply went bad over time. Since it was Comcast's, they came out and replaced it without any trouble. However, when I initially called them about the problem, they specifically looked up in their records whether I had one of theirs or one of my own. I definitely got the impression that they would have been much less helpful if it was my own modem. When you have problems, you will probably need them to diagnose the problem, and they did tell me that, if it had been my own modem, they would have charged me for a service call and any necessary repairs. Since it was their modem, it didn't cost me a dime.That's exactly what I was worried about. I'll spend the extra $36/yr for the peace of mind...
By the way, make sure you ask for the combo discount. I get $4 off my internet bill because I have cable TV service too, and that more than pays for the monthly cost of the modem. Good luck! The price specials that are listed on the webpage include the cable customer discount. Right now, they're running a special - first 6 months $22.95 for cable customers, $25.95 for non-customers (another $3 off if you don't lease the modem). Pretty good deal! I think I'll call tomorrow and get the ball rolling. :D

Thanks again for the great feedback! (still willing to listen to any other's opinions though!)

This is what I pay for Comcast phone service:

$14.90 basic residential service
$ 5.25 subscriber line charge
$ 6.25 caller ID
$ 5.95 voice mail

After adding on all the taxes and surcharges, it runs $36.32 / month, which was cheaper than what I used to pay Qwest. Glad I was able to help. Have a great day!

Hey, great thread going here on HDTV in the twin cities area!

Comcast services my area, and I've got a new HDTV, so I'm looking at getting their HD service. But I'm a little confused. Do I need to also subscribe to a digital package? Or can I just stay with the standard cable package and ad the HDTV service for the $5 per month? Someone told me that once, and it seems to make sense, but nowhere on their site does it say that you have to subscribe to a digital cable package in order to get the HDTV service.

Thanks!

I not believe a digital package is required. On the other hand there are a few HD stations that would require the digital package to get. I believe without a digital package you would only get the few OTA stations. I have a digital package so I could be wrong also...

Mu understanding is that you need a digital package to even get the digital version of the locals (currently only NBC and FOX in my area).

Originally posted by jbaraga
Mu understanding is that you need a digital package to even get the digital version of the locals (currently only NBC and FOX in my area).

This is absolutely incorrect and any Comcast CSR who tells you this is dead wrong. All that is needed is limited basic + rental of the Motorola 5100. Assuming limited basic in your area is about $15 per month, total cost to you should be $20 per month ($5 per month for rental of the 5100).

The CSR's are badly educated about this (among other things) and if you want only the digital locals, you will likely have to go through at least several CSR's and supervisors before you find someone who knows the reality.

Is there any word on Comcast adding FSN HD? I really want to see a Wild game in HD.... Looks like FSN will have a bunch.

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
This is absolutely incorrect and any Comcast CSR who tells you this is dead wrong. All that is needed is limited basic + rental of the Motorola 5100. Assuming limited basic in your area is about $15 per month, total cost to you should be $20 per month ($5 per month for rental of the 5100).



So if I just get the standard cable package (not digital) and the $5 Hdtv package, I will only get the OTA locals in HD?

If I want to get the other non premium HD changels, ESPN HD, Discovery HD, etc. I'll have to get the digital cable package and the $5 Hdtv package?

I'm still confused. I'm reluctant to spend the extra dough on digital cable just so I can get a few HD channels.

No what he is saying is you need to only have basic cable and then pay for the rental of the HDTV box ($5). And you will have the HD "tier". OTA or over the air will not be picked up with the Motorola box. Comcast in Mpls has only NBCHD and FOXED currently that can also be picked up with a OTA receiver.

Just a small note to add. You will not get the premimium channels like HBO in HD unless you pay for the HBO package. I am not sure about INHD and INHD2 if you will get that without digital package.

Originally posted by klaus9000
No what he is saying is you need to only have basic cable and then pay for the rental of the HDTV box ($5). And you will have the HD "tier". OTA or over the air will not be picked up with the Motorola box. Comcast in Mpls has only NBCHD and FOXED currently that can also be picked up with a OTA receiver.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, the only HD channels I will get with basic cable and the HDTV box will be NBCHD and FOXED? No ESPN or INHD?

There are reports on here that you will receive INHD and ESPNHD with basic service. I can't tell you because I have digital cable (silver package) so that I can get HBOHD also.

The HD channels available with standard analog cable and an HDTV box are only NBC and FOX. You do need a digital package to get INHD-1 & -2 as well as ESPN-HD. HBO-HD and SHO-HD are available with a subscription to those channels.

Thanks for your answers! I like to be informed before I call them up to order. I'm already disliking the cable company, and I don't even have it yet. :( But I think it will be worth it just to get the nicer Motorolla DCT5100 box for the $5 extra a month and the couple HD channels. Guess I'll see wht they say when I ask for standard cable and the HD package.

Good luck! I have had Comcast for 3 months and everything has gone smooth so far. My CSR knew what she was doing when I ordered and the installation guy was very knowledgable in HDTV.

My only complaint is the fact that the "silver" package includes a digital cable box free of charge. Adding HDTV for $5 to get the Motorola box is more of an upgrade not an additional box. I said great I want a regular digital cable box for my bedroom tv to be the "free" one included and then pay $5 for the Motorola for the HDTV.... They want to charge an extra $10 a month for a regular digital box and won't give it to me as the "free" one.

Today I purschased a hitachi 51s500 today and also ordered my comcast HDTV service. The CSR was really helpful and knew what she was talking about. I can't wait to get installed and have the ability to watch some of the programming. This theard is great lets keep it up on top. It's help me a lot with my discisions.

Originally posted by klaus9000

My only complaint is the fact that the "silver" package includes a digital cable box free of charge. Adding HDTV for $5 to get the Motorola box is more of an upgrade not an additional box. I said great I want a regular digital cable box for my bedroom tv to be the "free" one included and then pay $5 for the Motorola for the HDTV.... They want to charge an extra $10 a month for a regular digital box and won't give it to me as the "free" one.

Welcome to the world of cable.;)

Christmas come early...

I now have WCCOD active - channel 113. I hope it is HD, but I haven't seen any HD content on it yet.

Starz HD and Cinemax HD are also now available. I switched from HBO to Starz, since HBO has few movies on during primetime, and we don't watch their myriad of series, which get replayed ad nauseum on HBO HD. So far Starz HD has only limited HD offerings - and LOTR last night was letterboxed on the HD channel - yeecchhhhhhh! I hope they are just working the bugs out, although I don't think we would switch back to HBO. Anybody know how Skinemax, er, Cinemax HD is?

Here's to hoping KSTP HD will be added soon!

Yahoo!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340133

I have yet to verify the WCCO-D claim, but this is great news, especially for an NFL fan like myself.

** Edit **
Yes, it's true. Channel 113 is active, and just in time for today's Vikings' game in HD!

The Vikings game is being broadcast today in HD on WCCOD. The added bonus is that they're sending a 5.1 signal. Hooray! However, the picture looks pretty grainy, and they seem to be having some camera focusing issues at times.

StarzHD looks great, although Comcast is still passing along a stereo signal only due to a contract problem with their vendor. I'm not holding my breath for them to get that problem fixed anytime soon. Does anyone know why they're broadcasting Lord of the Rings smaller than full size? Its aspect ratio is 2.35:1, so there should be black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, but there's no way there should also be bars on the left and right sides. What's up with that??

StarzHD has been showing the extended edition of FOTR windowboxed for some reason not apparent to me. The theatrical edition of FOTR was shown in true HD. Interestingly, they have been showing Two Towers cropped for 16:9.

This am StarzHD showing of FOTR did have 5.1 sound. However, I did notice repeated audio dropouts - anybody else experience this? I'm wondering if I have a S/N problem.

You know, I thought I had tuned in one time to FOTR and seen a 5.1 signal, but then every time after that, it was a 2.0 signal. Just like I thought the first time I checked it wasn't window-boxed. I thought I was just misremembering, but I guess I was right. And yes, the theatrical version was cropped for 16:9. I noticed that and wondered why they made that choice. So anyway, I must have been seeing the theatrical version the first time and then the extended versions the other times.

And yes, I certainly noticed audio dropouts but only once when I was tuned into the extended edition that was window-boxed. When I got a 5.1 signal from the theatrical version, the signal was strong and consistent. Each time I tuned into the extended version, I got a 2.0 signal. I think this is a Starz issue, since there website reflects that only some of their broadcasts of FOTR are sent in 5.1 (bummer!). Right now, Goldmember is being sent in 2.0 on Starz (and the online schedule reflects it should be in 5.1) but in 5.1 on StarzHD, so Comcast obviously worked out a better deal with their vendor for the HD channel. Great!

Here's a new question. The Starz website reflects that anyone who is subscribed to the Starz SuperPak now automatically gets their Movies OnDemand channel too, without any additional charge or special equipment required. I don't see this channel in the channel guide. Anyone know if Comcast is providing this to us yet?

Audio dropouts seem to be inconsistent and sporadic. Austin Powers HD had no dropouts in 5.1. The Recruit on StarzHD in 5.1 (but shown 4:3 - boooooo!!) had repeated dropouts. I'm guessing it's a source (i.e. Starz) issue.

BTW, what is the issue with KSTP/ABC and Comcast? Why can't they get together and provide us HD?

I called Comcast yesterday to ask about the Starz OnDemand channel. The rep of course didn't know anything about that channel and couldn't give me a definitive answer, but she guessed that Comcast has to get their own Video OnDemand going first. She also had no idea what's up with the Starz/Starz Theater/Encore 5.1 (all non-HD) contract renegotiations with their vendor to get a 5.1 signal.

While on the phone, I also requested (once again) that they work harder to add PBS, ABC and Discovery to their HD lineup. I had thought that negotiations with Discovery were under way and had been in progress for quite some time, but the rep knew nothing about that. She knew nothing about PBS or ABC as yet. All I can say is that when people call to request new services, they log them into a database, and then they use the sheer numbers to help determine what to work on next. So . . . that means we have to keep calling. The good news is that she knew they had been working hard to get a sports network that would carry Minnesota games. Can't remember what she said it's called . . . maybe Victory Sports Network??

Originally posted by cielo
The Vikings game is being broadcast today in HD on WCCOD. The added bonus is that they're sending a 5.1 signal. Hooray! However, the picture looks pretty grainy, and they seem to be having some camera focusing issues at times.

StarzHD looks great, although Comcast is still passing along a stereo signal only due to a contract problem with their vendor. I'm not holding my breath for them to get that problem fixed anytime soon. Does anyone know why they're broadcasting Lord of the Rings smaller than full size? Its aspect ratio is 2.35:1, so there should be black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, but there's no way there should also be bars on the left and right sides. What's up with that??


Excuse my ignorance, but am I to understand from the above posts that we can now get CBS in HD via Comcast HDTV service on channel 113?

I hope that is correct, because the Super Bowl is on CBS on Feb 1st and I was bummed that we wouldn't see it in HDTV!

That would be soooooo cool!

That's right, Markito! Now the last major network left is ABC.

Whoo hoo!!!

I wanted to check when I posted late last night, but didn't feel like firing up the projector just to check for a few seconds.

Thanks for confirming that cielo.

Now if we could just get: ABC, PBS, Discovery, etc.

When I last called in to ask (again) for all those channels, they said they were working on an agreement with Victory Sports. I'm told that channel would carry a lot of Minnesota sports so it would be a great addition. The rep still didn't know anything about ABC, PBS or Discovery.

So I just checked and I can get 113 on my Moto 5100 and quickly added it to the other HD channels on my Comcast remote so that I can just rotate through all the HD channels by pressing "Fav".

But, 113 isn't listed in the "Channel Guide" on my ReplayTV unit. Not even in "Add or Remove Channels". Anyone know how I can get it on there?
Obviously this is minor compared to getting the actual HD channel on the 5100, but I'd also like to access it via my ReplayTV.

Unless I am mistaken, ReplayTV does not currently support recording of DTV or HDTV signals.

ReplayTV - DTV and HDTV (http://www.expressresponse.com/cgi-bin/progsnp/sonicblue01/srchjnnp?search_type=vdocument&search_input=8194&session_id=1074200424.28555.2&search_erproduct=ReplayTV&product=ReplayTV&template=replaytv2%2ehtml&imageField2.x=26&imageField2.y=23)

It would be greatly appreciated if anyone who receives HDTV via analog cable/HD box would post their experiences. I would prefer if this confirmation were to come from someone located in the Mpls/STP area using Comcast. Thank you.

Originally posted by The Wingnut
It would be greatly appreciated if anyone who receives HDTV via analog cable/HD box would post their experiences. I would prefer if this confirmation were to come from someone located in the Mpls/STP area using Comcast. Thank you.

If you scan the earlier posts in this thread, I believe you will find what you are looking for. A number of us posted our experiences when HD first became available in the Twin Cities last fall.

Thanks for the tip, DaveMN. I read every post starting on page one to no avail. The official statement from Comcast is that HDTV is available with their digital packages.

The same basic question was asked by mrblonde on 12-03-03. He received several responses in the affirmative, however these were from klaus9000 and berg0449 who both "thought" it is possible to receive HDTV with just analog basic cable service and the Moto5100. But both of these kind responders had digital cable service themselves, not analog. The most definitive response was from sonomasearcher, but he/she is in California, not the Twin Cities.

In closing, I wish to thank all of you "early adopters" who eagerly jumped on the bandwagon as soom as Comcast rolled out HDTV. All of us who stand back to watch until the dust settles should appreciate and learn from your efforts.

I suppose I should post an update for you.

I was able to order the standard cable and the $5 hdtv package, WITHOUT having to order the digital cable package. At first the rep said I couldn't do it, but then they checked with "someone else" and they said it was possible. So I know have the DCT-6200 Moto box in order to get the HD channels.

The HD is phenomenal by the way.

Thank you for your response, mrblonde. I simply wished for positive confirmation of the issue. I hope that you continue to enjoy the High Def and the Super Bowl (if you are interested.)

Yes I am looking forward to the Super Bowl. I'm glad it's on CBS instead of Fox. CBS football in HD is way better than Fox. Don't know why Fox can't even do 5.1 sound?

I just called an ordered HDTV from Comcast. I only have the $8.71 basic cable option (it made my cable modem around $15 or so cheaper for being a subscriber, net gain of $6) and I have DirecTV (I hate digital cable's over-compression). I am being charged $10/month instead of the $5/month that you are charged if you have digital cable. $10/month works for me tho. Also it appears the DCT5100 they are sending has a built in DOCSIS cable modem (the guy from comcast thinks it will work, we'll see), which means I might be able to get rid of the $3/month cable modem I am already leasing from them, and net increase is $7/month.

I can't wait till it arrives on Saturday! Hopefully I'll have my new TV hooked up for it :)

Brian

I'm glad it's on CBS instead of Fox. CBS football in HD is way better than Fox.
That's because Fox doesn't have "HD" - it's only 480p. I'm sure it's discussed many places, but here's one place (scroll down a bit):

HDTV Twin Cities (http://www.hdtvtwincities.com/mainframe.php/channels)

Still significantly better than the SD channel, but a far cry from 1080i HD!

To slightly change the topic, does anyone have any idea:

1) When the HD cable boxes with DVR capability will be introduced in the Twin Cities?

2) What box will be used- the Motorola 6208?

When the HD cable boxes with DVR capability will be introduced in the Twin Cities?
If you have Time Warner, they already have been! (but I have Comcast...)

Hi guys, just found this thread and I've read through all the posts - great information here.

I just had the HDTV box installed a few days ago, connected to a relatively basic Sony 32 inch plasma set in the bedroom. The Sony I think can be called "ED" as its display is 852 x 1024. I used a DVI cable for the box, and the lone set of component inputs on the TV to connect a DVD player. Everything works and overall I am very happy with it. The only issue in my case is that the signal I think could be a bit stronger. We have a total of 5 TV's connected, plus broadband, and despite having an amplifier (or two?)the split signal may be a bit weak. I think I will have them out once again to look at the whole system, as it's been added to (jury-rigged) by many installers over the years. It certainly had the HDTV installer scratching his head.

Anyway, I have two immediate questions that maybe someone here could help me with:

1. On the three network HDTV channels, 112-114, most programs that are not originally broadcast in HDTV have black bars on the sides. The installer said that this is due to the local stations upconverting the signal, and when this is the case there is no way to eliminate the black bars. Does everyone else here experience this? Ideally I would like to be able to stretch the picture to fill the 16 x 9 screen, as I am concerned about burn-in of the plasma screen. On regular SD channels the Sony gives you several options for filling the screen, but apparently (?) this cannot be done with the upconverted HD signal.

2. On my Sony universal remote there is no Motorola cable box number code, and I am wondering if anyone else here who owns a Sony might know what number might work with the 5100 box. I tried a few other numbers listed for other cable box manufacturers and one of them gave me limited compatibility, but most functions still don't work. The Motorola remote seems OK too, but I had gotten used to the Sony remote, which also controls the DVD player.

3. Does anyone know if there is a 5100 owners manual available for downloading from anywhere on the web? What the installer leaves you with isn't of much value, and I'd like to see the actual manual if it's available.

Thanks - Joel.

Here are a couple of good DCT-5100 links:

User Guide
http://broadband.motorola.com/hdtv/02UsefulGuide.pdf

FAQ
http://www.cjhengineering.com/5100faq.htm

Hi Joel and welcome to this thread!

Yes, it is normal to have black side bars on all the HD channels when they are not broadcasting a true HD signal. The exception is ESPN-HD, which automatically stretches its non-HD content to fit the screen. I use the "zoom" option on my Mitsubishi TV to fill the screen, although it's not a normal "stretch" or "standard" stretch like are also available with 480 broadcasts.

Regarding your remote, I would call Sony customer service to ask them. I did that with Mitsubishi because there was no code for the Motorola box listed in my TV manual, and they were able to give me a code that worked. Good luck!

Dave and cielo,

Thanks for your replies. Having the manual will really help me get the most out of the box - am printing it as I type this! Have also bookmarket the FAQ site which looks very informative also.

Will try the zooming option on channels 112-114, but I don't think the Sony will allow it. When I tried the "Wide Mode" button a message to this effect appeared on the screen. On SD stations this button would give you various stretch and zoom options for filling the screen. I guess as more programs are broadcast in true HD, this will become less and less of an issue. Until then I think I will be safer watching the analog stations (4,5, and 11).

I do have a REAL big screen (70 inch) Sony LCD projection TV on order, which will go in the family room, and with its built in tuner I'm anxious to see what stations it will bring in using standard cable plus an OTA antenna. Also with the LCD screen burn-in will not be an issue.

Originally posted by DaveMN
To slightly change the topic, does anyone have any idea:

1) When the HD cable boxes with DVR capability will be introduced in the Twin Cities?

Dave,
Go to this site and the click on
http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot3PageOne.asp

After I clicked "continue" at the bottom and then entered in my zipcode (55105), it said, "DVR is not yet available at the address you entered. Click Here to be notified when DVR is available in your area." So you may want to do that.

Originally posted by blitzen102
Unless I am mistaken, ReplayTV does not currently support recording of DTV or HDTV signals.

True, and I know that, but there has been a lot of discussion in the AVS ReplayTV forum about how if you hook your ReplayTV unit up to the HDTV (5100) cablebox via S-video, the HD channel isn't HD, but looks much nicer than the non HD channel version, so I want to do that.

Originally posted by mrblonde
Yes I am looking forward to the Super Bowl. I'm glad it's on CBS instead of Fox. CBS football in HD is way better than Fox. Don't know why Fox can't even do 5.1 sound?
Originally posted by shelland
That's because Fox doesn't have "HD" - it's only 480p. I'm sure it's discussed many places, but here's one place (scroll down a bit):
HDTV Twin Cities (http://www.hdtvtwincities.com/mainframe.php/channels)
Still significantly better than the SD channel, but a far cry from 1080i HD!

Here is another (more simplistic) explanation. On Comcast's website at
http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot4PageOne.asp

It says, and I quote...
"Unlike satellite, with Comcast you can watch local broadcast channels (like ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS*) in HD without an antenna. So you can see the prime-time and sports programs that you wanted to watch when you bought an HDTV set. In addition to our HD programming, in many cities Comcast offers the enhanced viewing experience of FOX Widescreen.

Plus, you get great HD networks like ESPN HD which offers over 100 high definition games a year and selected ESPN original programming. Also, the INHD and INHD2 channels offer an exceptional variety of sports, movies, travel, and nature programming – all in high definition.

Finally, at no extra cost, premium subscribers can catch their favorite hit movies and many ground breaking original series from HBO HD and SHOWTIME HD. And for HD movie lovers, STARZ HD and CINEMAX HD are coming soon."

So you see, they don't call it HD on their website, it is just "Fox Widescreen". That explains why I have been b*tching about it every Sunday and didn't know until today why for HD, it s*cked so badly.

I also like that they mention ABC-HD & PBS-HD, but then the "*" says, "
*HD programming from ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS is available in selected areas."

So at first I thought, "Hey, they said ABC & PBS as HD on their site!", but then I realized that this is just a form letter site that doesn't speak of Saint Paul's listings directly. But we can always hope.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I just had the HDTV box installed a few days ago, connected to a relatively basic Sony 32 inch plasma set in the bedroom. The Sony I think can be called "ED" as its display is 852 x 1024. I used a DVI cable for the box, and the lone set of component inputs on the TV to connect a DVD player. Everything works and overall I am very happy with it.

JBaumgart,
The DVI-D output on your Moto 5100 HDTV cablebox is active and is sending the HD signal to your TV?!?!?!?!?

Really?

I thought that the DVI-D output wasn't active yet.

In fact, I don't think my 5100 even has a DVI-D jack visible. I'll have to check.

Please confirm.

Thanks,

Originally posted by Markito
Dave,
Go to this site and the click on
http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot3PageOne.asp

After I clicked "continue" at the bottom and then entered in my zipcode (55105), it said, "DVR is not yet available at the address you entered. Click Here to be notified when DVR is available in your area." So you may want to do that.

Did that months ago. I was just wondering if anyone has some inside information on how long of a wait we have. I don't expect to get an official email from Comcast before its available for order.

Oh. Yeah.
I have 3 ReplayTV 5XXX DVRs, and I LOVE them, but what a bummer to have so much money already invested in DVR technology and not be able to record true HD.

I have kids, so I watch almost all of my TV late at night after they are asleep, so the reality is that I rarely ever get to watch it in HD.

So an HD DVR would be so great!

I have a problem explaining to the wife (who loves TiVo), why we got HD if we can't record it with our TiVo. Since a stand alone TiVo that records HD cable hasn't even been announced yet, it looks like the only option will be the Comcast DVR (or moving to a dish). I'm in the same boat with the kids too- I only have an hour or two at best that I can watch TV after the kids are asleep. :)

Sounds like we are in the same EXACT situation.
C'mon Comcast, make that DVR available SOON!!!

To slightly change the topic, does anyone have any idea:

1) When the HD cable boxes with DVR capability will be introduced in the Twin Cities?

Go to this site and the click on
http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot3PageOne.asp

After I clicked "continue" at the bottom and then entered in my zipcode (55105), it said, "DVR is not yet available at the address you entered. Click Here to be notified when DVR is available in your area." So you may want to do that.
They mention DVR on the above page, but I don't see that it mentions HD DVR anywhere...

I have a problem explaining to the wife (who loves TiVo), why we got HD if we can't record it with our TiVo. Since a stand alone TiVo that records HD cable hasn't even been announced yet, it looks like the only option will be the Comcast DVR
If it's an HD DVR...


(or moving to a dish).

Or moving to an area that has Time Warner, since they already have an HD DVR available... ;)

Really?

I thought that the DVI-D output wasn't active yet.

In fact, I don't think my 5100 even has a DVI-D jack visible. I'll have to check.

Please confirm.

Thanks,

I have to assume it's the 5100 (it's now in a cabinet and is a bit difficult to see the lettering on the back) but it does have a DVI output and the picture is very sharp. So either it's the very latest 5100 or a newer, upgraded model that they are now using in lieu of the 5100(?). As I mentioned the only set of component inputs on the TV are connected to my DVD player, and I have no other video connection going from the box to the TV. So Comcasts' latest installations definitely include a DVI out that can be used successfully - and with my TV I'm glad it works.

Originally posted by shelland
If it's an HD DVR...

The DVRs that Comcast is rolling-out in other markets WILL record HD, so when they finally get around to Minnesota, ours will as well.

Yeah, I SWEAR I read HD recording there somewhere, but now I can't find it.

If it is just a DVR, then I don't want it, as I already have three networked ReplayTV 5XXX units, but if it is HD DVR, then sign me up!!!!

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I have to assume it's the 5100 (it's now in a cabinet and is a bit difficult to see the lettering on the back) but it does have a DVI output and the picture is very sharp. So either it's the very latest 5100 or a newer, upgraded model that they are now using in lieu of the 5100(?). As I mentioned the only set of component inputs on the TV are connected to my DVD player, and I have no other video connection going from the box to the TV. So Comcasts' latest installations definitely include a DVI out that can be used successfully - and with my TV I'm glad it works.

Hmmmmm. Wish I had that model. If you go back to the link of the 5100 User's Manual .pdf, you will see pics of the 5100's face and back. They show no DVI-D. But I think there is a similar model out there (not shown or discussed in the manual), the 6200 or something that is almost the same, and perhaps that one has it.

I guess you're just lucky.

I'm using my DVI-D cable for my DVD player, and I don't want to have to buy another expensive cable, so I guess I'm fine for now.

Thanks for the heads up.

Originally posted by Markito
Yeah, I SWEAR I read HD recording there somewhere, but now I can't find it.

If it is just a DVR, then I don't want it, as I already have three networked ReplayTV 5XXX units, but if it is HD DVR, then sign me up!!!!
More than likely we'll get the Motorola DCT-6208, unless something else shows-up beforehand. This seems to be what most markets are getting. I've also read they may wait for a new model, the DCT-6408, which evidently will have more storage and more tuners.

Product page:
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/dct6208.asp

User guide:
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/downloads/DCT6200-08_UserGuide.pdf

While the interface won't compare with TiVo or Replay TV (will be time based), at least we'll finally be able to record HD. I think these boxes will also let you add an external drive via USB for more program storage.

Originally posted by Markito
Hmmmmm. Wish I had that model. If you go back to the link of the 5100 User's Manual .pdf, you will see pics of the 5100's face and back. They show no DVI-D. But I think there is a similar model out there (not shown or discussed in the manual), the 6200 or something that is almost the same, and perhaps that one has it.

I guess you're just lucky.

I'm using my DVI-D cable for my DVD player, and I don't want to have to buy another expensive cable, so I guess I'm fine for now.

Thanks for the heads up.

Just looked at the fact sheets for the DCT5100 vs the DCT6200. For the 5100 it says that the DVI Interface is "optional" whereas the 6200 has this standard. I suspect that I have the 5100 but I am going to check and make sure, as now I'm curious. Need to pull everything away from the wall and have some good light to do this.

I also want to do some more experimenting with the User Settings to make sure I'm getting the best possible picture from my TV (Sony plasma KE32TS2). Question, do you think with a native plasma resolution of 852 x 1024 the output should be set to 1080i or 720P? I'm going to try both and see if it makes a difference. Generally, I;ve read where 1080i is a little better on those sets that can support it, except possible for fast moving pictures (like hockey games) 720P can be better.

The DVRs that Comcast is rolling-out in other markets WILL record HD, so when they finally get around to Minnesota, ours will as well.
I hadn't heard that - good to know - thanks!

I just got off the phone with comcast, trying to get the basic service and HDTV for $5.00/month, and regardless of who I talked to I ended up with the guy or gal telling me I needed their digital package. So I just said the hell with it and got basic cable only (to make my Internet $15.00 cheaper) and will try talking to the tech about it.

If anyone has been or becomes successful in getting this elusive service combo, could you try asking the person completing the sale what a new caller should ask for to avoid this runaround and post it here? That would be really great. I'll try asking the tech the same thing, tho I doubt they have much to do with phone sales.

Originally posted by palebluedot
I just got off the phone with comcast, trying to get the basic service and HDTV for $5.00/month, and regardless of who I talked to I ended up with the guy or gal telling me I needed their digital package. So I just said the hell with it and got basic cable only (to make my Internet $15.00 cheaper) and will try talking to the tech about it.

If anyone has been or becomes successful in getting this elusive service combo, could you try asking the person completing the sale what a new caller should ask for to avoid this runaround and post it here? That would be really great. I'll try asking the tech the same thing, tho I doubt they have much to do with phone sales.

Before I got the HD box installed, I had just the standard (analog) Comcast service. When I called Comcast the rep said that I could upgrade to HD and still keep the basic service, for just $5 a month more. However when they came to install it I asked the tech guy about this, and he said that this wasn't possible - that you needed digital cable service ($10/month) in order to get the HD box. I was going to call Comcast to complain but now I do not really want to give the digital cable up - the picture seems better as even the standard signal upconverts to 480p. I am not certain if this would be the case if I had just the HD box without digital cable service, assuming this is possible (the original rep could have been mistaken - that's what the installer said). I don't like paying $15 a month more, but I have to say that I am happy with the overall package. My only real gripe is that the network channels when watching non-HD broadcasts on channels 112-114 come through in 4:3, with black bars on the sides, and I'm not willing to risk burn-in on my plasma display so I watch these programs on their normal local channel numbers. Not a huge deal as the upconverted SD picture is still pretty good, and Sony's widezoom mode does a good job filling the 16x9 screen without having that artificial stretched look.

Originally posted by Markito
Hmmmmm. Wish I had that model. If you go back to the link of the 5100 User's Manual .pdf, you will see pics of the 5100's face and back. They show no DVI-D. But I think there is a similar model out there (not shown or discussed in the manual), the 6200 or something that is almost the same, and perhaps that one has it.

I guess you're just lucky.

I'm using my DVI-D cable for my DVD player, and I don't want to have to buy another expensive cable, so I guess I'm fine for now.

Thanks for the heads up.

Spoke with a Comcast phone rep today and she confirmed after looking at my account that my box is a model 6012. I believe they will do an exchange for you if you were to take your 5100 in. In the same conversation I also learned that I am using their older computer modem (broadband - I signed up just after it first became available) and they would do an exchange on that for no charge, so I assume the same would apply to their HDTV boxes. If you want to use a DVI hookup it may be worth asking about.

Originally posted by palebluedot
I just got off the phone with comcast, trying to get the basic service and HDTV for $5.00/month, ...

If anyone has been or becomes successful in getting this elusive service combo, could you try asking the person completing the sale what a new caller should ask for to avoid this runaround and post it here? ...

I was able to get the HD service added to my internet+analog cable after a CSR told me that I needed the full digital service by telling him that I'm a DirecTV customer and I just wanted to try Comcast's HDTV service. He put me on hold for a couple of minutes and told me that I could get it. I don't know if the DirecTV reference made a difference or not. Then he veared into the trees by telling me that, while I could get the HD service, I would only get it on the analog channels when the networks displayed one of the "Broadcast in HDTV" messages. I said "Fine" and he scheduled the install for 2 days out. The tech was a little puzzled when he found out that I didn't have the digital package but everything was set up within 30 minutes.

As I expected, the $5 only got me the locals (WCCO, KARE, and KMSP) that Comcast carries plus the Music Choice channels. A week later I called and had INHD (1&2) and ESPN-HD added for another $10/mo under the so-called Digital Classic package, which includes a hit-and-miss set of SD digital channels that mostly duplicate what I have on DirecTV. The CSR, a very nice lady whose told me that her son also has an HDTV, wasn't sure if I could get INHD and ESPN-HD without the full digital package but she checked (without putting me on hold) and came up with Digital Classic.

So, I was able to get what I wanted in time for the NFL playoffs. I'm pretty bored with INHD waiting for something new to enter the rotation (it's like a Top-40 station that's v-e-r-y s-l-o-w to change their playlist), and the Comcast interactive program guide is a joke. It seems like ESPN-HD shows something in HD about once every 3 or 4 days. But I'm glad I've been able to try out HD with little up-front cost. Now I'm waiting for the DirecTV HD-Tivo box to come out this spring, or the long-shot possibility of Comcast offering an HD-DVR this spring. I like my DirecTivo and, incredibly, so does my wife. Right now, my guess is that I'll end up with the DirecTV HD-Tivo and dump the Comcast HD.

Is anyone else having a problem receiving INHD on Comcast? Lately for me these channels has been coming in very sporadically, and the connectivity problem seems to have gotten worse. I think it may be a signal problem to the particluar room in my house. A few years back they installed an indoor signal booster to improve the reception, which the HD installer told me was a poor solution (he said these, when needed, should be installed on the main cable line coming into the house, not in individual rooms). Just wondering if mine is a special situation or if I should have them take a fresh look at my whole-house cable installation.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
Spoke with a Comcast phone rep today and she confirmed after looking at my account that my box is a model 6012. I believe they will do an exchange for you if you were to take your 5100 in. In the same conversation I also learned that I am using their older computer modem (broadband - I signed up just after it first became available) and they would do an exchange on that for no charge, so I assume the same would apply to their HDTV boxes. If you want to use a DVI hookup it may be worth asking about.

JBaumgart,
Thanks for all the great info. At some point I may switch boxes.

Incidentally, I have NEVER had any problems with INHD & INHD2, since the day they came online. So it must be something in your home. I have it perfect every day. Good luck.

Is anyone else having a problem receiving INHD on Comcast?
The only "trouble" I've had is for the NBA broadcasts, which have been a totally black screen. But that's because Comcast doesn't have an agreement with the NBA, so it's blacked out...

INHD has now worked without a hitch the past two days, and I didn't touch a thing...weird.

Anybody know when Comcast will have KMSP (Channel 5) in HDTV? I wanted to watch the NHL All Star game yesterday in HD, but couldn't.

Actually, KMSP isn't channel 5, it's 9 or 10. KSTP is channel 5.

Originally posted by Markito
Actually, KMSP isn't channel 5, it's 9 or 10. KSTP is channel 5.

Well, duh, you are correct. Anyway I was disappointed that the All Star Game wasn't in HD on Comcast and was wondering when they might transit Channel 5's (ABC) programming in HD.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
Well, duh, you are correct. Anyway I was disappointed that the All Star Game wasn't in HD on Comcast and was wondering when they might transit Channel 5's (ABC) programming in HD. Also, how about Discovery HD?

Larry, are you gonna' get the DircTivo Hughes DVR 250 when it comes out? Isn't that a $900 box?? I've been considering dumping Directv and going Comcast, but with my samsung 160, I get five digital channels of PBS plus PBS HD, Channels 4, 5, 11, and 23 in HD, fox widescreen, 29 and 45 digital, plus channel 45 HD which is HD Net, all from a little set-top UHF antenna. Then for $11more, I get a different HD Net, HD Net movies, Discovery HD, ESPN HD, CBS New York HD, but the only two premiums available in HD are HBO E, and Showtime E. So it sounds like I get more HD with DirecTv than with Comcast. Am I correct?

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I was disappointed that the All Star Game wasn't in HD on Comcast...

Actually, the All-Star Game was in HiDef! Though in SD it was on TNT, "INHD" simulcast it on the INHD channel!

We were so happy to see that.

Originally posted by JBaumgart
I was wondering when they might transimt Channel 5's (ABC) programming in HD.

I agree. I sooooooooo wish that Comcast would make ABC-HD available before the Oscars, (like CBS before the Super Bowl), but I'm sure that won't happen.

I'd love to host an Oscars party in my home theater, but don't want to if it isn't in HD and I don't have an OTA system.

Anyone want to lend me their HD tuner and OTA antenna just for that evening?

JBaumgart,
I finally looked at the back of my Moto 5100 unit and it DOES have a DVI output! I don't know if it is operational or not though. I'll have to test it.

So I wonder what is newer or better about the 6012.

Originally posted by Markito
JBaumgart,
I finally looked at the back of my Moto 5100 unit and it DOES have a DVI output! I don't know if it is operational or not though. I'll have to test it.

So I wonder what is newer or better about the 6012.

And I wonder if the Comcast rep knew for sure that mine is the 6012 (?). Looking at the Motorola site I only see the 5100 and a 6200, so I'm not sure if there IS a 6012. I'll have to get back there and take a look for myself, which is a pain because of the cabinet it's in. If you know of another way to identify the model, other than looking at the back end, please let me know. Whatever it is, I don't see where it provides any advantages yet - maybe just future upgrade capability?

Just a

>>bump<<

so that other Minnesotans will know we are here.:)

Originally posted by lewie
So it sounds like I get more HD with DirecTv than with Comcast. Am I correct?

I'd agree with you. Comcast doesn't have HD PPV, which seems like a no-brainer. No PBS and no ABC (which won't be important until MNF). So, I'm probably leaning toward the HD-DVR250, because 1) I've been happy with DirecTV for the 7 or 8 years I've had it, 2) I've been ecstatic with Tivo for 2 years, 3) I will have all the local digital channels available with an antenna (although I'm not looking forward to running a 4th coax into my family room, because the antenna will be on the opposite side of the house from the cable and satellite), 4) who knows when Comcast will offer an HD-PVR.

When the tech had replaced my overheated box i asked him about the dvr and he said that it would be like June when there were going to roll out the dvr. Because they are unhappy with the current box that motorola is offering.

Hmmmm. Interesting.

I just got a new large screen (Sony 60XBR950) for the family room, and will probably hold off adding another Comcast HD box for this set. We do have one connected to the smaller Sony in the bedroom, and have generally been happy with it, except for occasional reception problems when INHD and sometimes even 112-114 do not come in. The new TV has a built-in HD tuner, and I just hooked up an indoor "Silver Sensor" antenna and suprisingly am able to pull in all of the local channels even though I am about 17 miles away from the antenna farm and the antenna is sitting exactly at ground level. The reception is excellent and once positioned I do not have to move it. It is nice being able to receive all of the channels including PBS. I am having Comcast come over on Saturday and am hoping a new dedicated cable run to this TV will improve the signal on the SD channels - the bigger screen exagerates all of the flaws, and right now I have at least two and I think three splitters in the line before the signal gets to this set. I am hoping they can address this also as it would improve the picture on two of my other (old, non-HD) sets. If the SD picture on the new Sony is not significantly improved with the new direct feed, I may try adding a box to see if digital cable makes a difference.

<bump>

Followup to my post above:

Unfortunately the Comcast rewiring did nothing to improve the PQ when watching SD on my new TV. If anything it was worse when the guy left. They are supposed to check the signal on the box outside the house, which services 3 other houses around me, but naturally I never received a call letting me know when they were coming out. Desparate for an improved picture, I went out and puchased a signal booster, specifically a Motorola "Broadband Drop Amplifier" Model #484095-001-00. This was the best $50 I ever spent, as now the PQ is just as good as non-HD digital broadcasts using the OTA antenna, which is to say very good. Made me really glad that I spent all of that money on the new TV - before I was questioning my decision! I can recommend the Motorola amplifier - without reservation - to anyone who has less than an ideal cable signal coming in their main TV. It certainly solved my problem, and I will probably get another one for the bedroom where Comcast put in a cheaper one last year.

Any new HD channels added to Comcast lately (since CBS in January)?

Any on the horizon?

Thanks,

1. No. Lack of ABC and PBS is most annoying.

2. I don't know, but would like to.

On my new TV with built in HD tuner, right now I don't have much incentive to add a Comcast HD box, due to the lack of unique HD programming. This will change once more of the regular cable channels go HD.

On my new TV with built in HD tuner, right now I don't have much incentive to add a Comcast HD box, due to the lack of unique HD programming. This will change once more of the regular cable channels go HD.
ESPNHD, INHD and INHD2 would be well worth the $5/mo for me! (plus HBO if you happen to get that)

ESPN-HD, particularly Sunday night football and the occasional hockey games in HD, is worthwhile.

InHD has very little worth watching, perhaps a few movies and concerts, but I wouldn't miss it if they were gone. Their main usefulness is to show off HDTV to guests.

InHD has very little worth watching, perhaps a few movies and concerts, but I wouldn't miss it if they were gone. Their main usefulness is to show off HDTV to guests.
For the sports fan, the NBA games have been outstanding!

I should clarify - I do have the Comcast 6200 box connected to our bedroom set, so I do have access to the channels you mention. It's just that I don't think right now it would be worthwhile to add another HD box to the new TV, since this is able to pull in all of the local stations, including PBS (1.1) and HDNet (45.2) which are not yet available on Comcast.

Originally posted by jbaraga
Their main usefulness is to show off HDTV to guests.

That's worth it for me right there.

Plus yes, the other HD channels are nice too.

Though I am actually toying with the idea of getting VOOM.
Any opinions on that?

I too am toying with the idea of trying VOOM. My HDTV is sorely underutilized right now, just getting basic analog cable until I decide on the next step. VOOM looks great on paper, decent line up of HD and SD channels. Price is reasonable too. The drawbacks I've heard are slow channel change (several seconds), low quality OTA antenna, high equip price (unless you lease it), and the uncertainty if VOOM will survive and compete.

Hey all, I've skimmed all 11 pages, and I'm left wondering:

Is there a nice source for us in Minneapolis that let's us know what will be broadcast in HD on the local channels (112-114)?

If so, can you please point it out for me.

Thank you in advance.

Originally posted by chumpboy
Is there a nice source for us in Minneapolis that let's us know what will be broadcast in HD on the local channels (112-114)?



I look at titantv.com for the over the air station.

Rumor has it Comcast New England is ramping up to provide 27 HD channels.

See this thread....
New Comcast Channels?? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387593)

Does anyone have a contact locally to see if they may be doing the same here in MN??

Originally posted by chumpboy
Is there a nice source for us in Minneapolis that let's us know what will be broadcast in HD on the local channels (112-114)?

Not really, but you could always check periodically here too...
http://www.hdtvtwincities.com/mainframe.php/news

I've been looking at VOOM too. I understand that they improved the channel change with firmware, you can rent equipment for 9.95 a month and no programming contract, and if they are bought out, you've lost little except whatever you pay for installation (I believe that is free also).

I just can't give up ESPN-HD and INHD1&2 and Comcast Sportsnet for HD baseball right now. And I need broadband. I would need a $15 package for Comcast (plus a second box - for Locals in HD and sportsnet), an $80 Va-Va-Voom and give up a lot of HD sports. So I'm still waiting for Discovery, HDNET and Bravo (I doubt we'll get any any other new channels also like TNT-HD).

I also wondered if the 27 channels (I have 12 in Baltimore) will be in any other markets. I guess by the fall we shall find out.

Rich N.

Channel 438.

It isn't showing up for me yet.

Announcement was in the special NBA playoffs section of the Star Tribune.

Wolves Sunday and Wednesday in HD!!

Woo-hoo!!

Channel 438.

It isn't showing up for me yet.

Announcement was in the special NBA playoffs section of the Star Tribune.

Wolves Sunday and Wednesday in HD!!
The rumor I had read for a couple weeks as that FSN was going to offer the HD feed for the playoffs to other carriers besides TWC. I'm glad to see Comcast will be carrying it.

I have not heard yet whether this is now a permanent channel on Comcast, or if they're only picking up the playoff games. Considering they have it way up on 438, away from the other HD channels, my gut instinct says this is only for the playoff games, but that's just my guess...

It came through tonight for the playoffs!
Didn't look as fantastic as INHD stuff always looks, so I wonder if it was Fox "Widescreen" instead of actual HDTV. Oh well, it was still better than SDTV.

Originally posted by NickStan
When the tech had replaced my overheated box i asked him about the dvr and he said that it would be like June when there were going to roll out the dvr. Because they are unhappy with the current box that motorola is offering. I've been told by several Comcast employees that the DVR they'll be offering (maybe in June) is the single-tuner box. Motorola does make a two-tuner DVR available, but evidently Comcast feels its subscribers don't deserve to have two tuners.

Just like we don't deserve to receive ABC and PBS programming in HD.

That's why I've ordered the HD-DirecTiVo, with its four tuners and the ability to record two things at once. In addition, everybody's saying that OTA HD is much sharper than Comcast's compressed local HD channels (all two of them) or even DirecTV's national CBS feed.

I can't wait to ditch Comcast's kludgy hi-def cable box and the exhorbitant monthly bill.

Comcast had to make a decision about the single or dual-tuner roll-outs. Because they had promised to provide HD-DVR they decided to go with the single tuner now. I don't think any insiders think that Comcast could have distributed the 6408 dual tuner in June. Most were looking at the fall or later (based upon typical slippages.)

Comcast needs agreements with local broadcasters to show their HD signal. They have stated that they will not pay extra for the HD simulcast of the SD channel, so some locals won't give them the HD feed. Many Comcast customers throughout the country have this problem with their station management and Comcast. Although I am very upset at the lack of HD Channel additions to Comcast (none where I am in 4 months) they do have to consider costs for these basically free channels.

Comcast is determined not to expand either locals or national channels (DiscoveryHD, HDNET, Bravo) if it will force them to raise rates.

Rich N.

Raidbuck that isn't true. Here in Mpls ABC (hubbard) is only requiring Comcast not to compress the crap out of the signal.. And Comcast is refusing. They aren't asking for Money... Just that the Comcast Subscribers get the FULL signal. Comcast is bad!

Originally posted by etoop
Here in Mpls ABC (hubbard) is only requiring Comcast not to compress the crap out of the signal.. And Comcast is refusing. They aren't asking for Money... Just that the Comcast Subscribers get the FULL signal. Comcast is bad! Eric,

Your statement is absolutely incorrect. Please don't make statements which are false as if they were true.

Comcast does not compress HD signals. A 256 QAM slot allows for 38.8 Mbs and Comcast puts two HD channels in each slot-- allowing for 19.4 Mbs per HD channel.

Comcast establishes direct fiber feeds to the local station's signal so that is does not have to pluck it off the air, and the quality from everyone who has done a true A/B comparison is that Comcast is equal (or even better if the viewer has geography, weather or other interference problems with OTA).

Please tell us what the source of your information is regarding the negotiations between Hubbard and Comcast. Then we can judge how reliable your supposed information is. However, the fact that you say that Comcast compresses its HD signals already casts your information in doubt.

(P.S. Here is a scenario which does not directly involve an exchange of money between Comcast and Hubbard:

Hubbard may be asking for Comcast to agree to carry all its digital signals if and when it multicasts. For example, even if Hubbard's ABC station has only one digital channel now-- no multicasting-- it may be asking Comcast to sign a contract that requires Comcast to carry all multicast channels if and when Hubbard starts multicasting.

But perhaps Hubbard is refusing to tell Comcast what those multicast channels might be-- 24 hour weather, 24 hour infomercials, 24 hour shopping channel, 24 hour something else with no redeeming value. In which case, Comcast says forget it... we'll agree to carry a value-added multicast, but not a whatever-Hubbard-wants-it-to-be multicast.

So, assuming that to be what is going on, you should thank Comcast for preserving picture quality. Because if Hubbard could sell 24 hour infomercial multicasting and thereby reduce HD picture quality, it would-- and automatic cable carriage would only help it do that.)

Funny there was an article in the paper just a few months ago and about this whole thing and that was exactly the issue.

Source was the Star Tribune in the paper version.

Comcast confirmed they compressed the signals but would not say how much.

There is no article which can be found from searching the articles on the Star Tribune's website.

So I would like to see a copy of the actual article. Comcast does not compress HD signals anywhere else, so I think you probably misread the article.

Standard definition channels are a different matter, but I can't imagine that Hubbard would be demanding non-compression on SD signals.

Does Hubbard multicast (or have plans to multicast) on its digital bandwidth?

Here is a snip from the hdtvtwincities.com forum.

KSTP is owned by Hubbard Broadcasting. They do not yet have their digital signal on any cable system. The cable cos. want the right to modify the signal, including compression if they want to. HBI has been unwilling to allow that. My understanding is that this is the basis of the impasse.
Hubbard broadcasting wants Comcast to carry the full bandwith of KSTP digital signal. Comcast wants to compress it so it takes up less space on their system.

Wish I still had the article. I would have scanned it for you but I'm in the porcess of selling my house and decided to toss it 2 weeks ago.

I know it was either from startribune.com or pioneerplanet.com but both charge to read the full articles of past stories. I'm not about to pay 2.95 just a prove a point :) sorry

The fact that KSTP's digital signal is also not carried by Time Warner or Charter says something-- whatever the issue is, it is not unique to Comcast. None of the cable companies want to buy into whatever Hubbard is offering.

I checked out the hdtvtwincities forum also, and this is what KSTP's engineer said about it:

The additional services could be data, multiple SD program streams, or even a second HD program stream.

A simplified view of the problem is that broadcasters want the cable companies to carry their digital signals and (in most cases) are offering those digital signals free of charge, but the broadcasters want the cable companies to consider the signal as being the entire 19.39 Mbit ATSC service licensed by the FCC. The cable companies instead want to consider the digital signal as only one program stream within that licensed service.

For example, the cable companies are willing to allocate 19.39 Mbit of space on their systems to carry the individual broadcasters HD signal if the signal uses the entire 19.39 Mbit of bandwidth (which most do), but they are not willing to allocate that same 19.39 Mbit space on their system for an HD signal that has been combined with other services.

Cable is currently in about 52% of the households in this market and it is widely believed that number will increase as HD viewers try to obtain the largest selection of HD programming that they possibly can. (DBS of course figures into this but it’ll be clearer to just concentrate on cable at this time). Broadcasters provide their signal free of charge to the cable companies (in most retransmission agreements) and the cable companies then charge their subscribers to receive that same signal as part of the basic tier of programming. The cable subscribers will then typically abandon their home over the air antenna systems because they’re receiving the local stations via cable. The result is eroded viewer support of free local television.

HD program origination is a very significant expense for a mature business that has a highly diluted market as described above. It will be the demise of free over the air local broadcasting if broadcasters are not allowed to provide all of their services to their entire market area.

One of the reasons that ABC, ESPN, Fox, and KSTP have decided to originate and/or pass-through a 720p signal is that 720p originated material is considerably more bandwidth efficient than 1080i originated material at a given perceived quality. That bandwidth efficiency will allow more flexibility to provide additional services to the viewer. For example, we’re stretching current (authorized) encoding technology by muxing the HDNet 1080i and KSTC 480i signals into one ATSC 19.39 service. The efficiency of 720p origination will allow us (when the time comes) to mux several SD’s with the HD or even two high quality HD signals into that same amount of bandwidth.

So what I posted above is correct, in that Hubbard wants whatever it puts within the 19.4 Mbs to be carried by the cable company, regardless of whether it is one HD stream, two 720p HD streams or 8 SD streams. The cable companies are going to balk at giving Hubbard wide-open rights to whatever it wants-- I doubt the cable companies want to be stuck with a 480i simulcast of analog plus seven shopping and infomercial channels and a weather radar screen.

If Hubbard could identify the exact multicasting it wants to do in the future, the cable companies easily might agree to do it... for example one HD channel + one 24 hour news channel + one 24 hour weather/radar channel. But Hubbard is refusing to limit its options.

So the cable companies' refusing to carry KSTP-DT for now is actually good, as it may deter Hubbard from some horrible non-HD multicasting plan. Without cable carriage, any non-HD multicasting plan would be worth much less.

PS: Couldn't find any article on the pioneerplanet website either.

Yes you are correct... but comcast is also saying NO to this because they want to compress the signal so save space, Hubbard is saying no to the compression because they might want to use that space for additional things.

It is a catch 22

I don't think it is a matter of compression, as I understand that term.

What Comcast probably wants is to simply send the KSTP HD signal on at the SAME bit rate which KSTP transmits its HD OTA. So if KSTP is using the full 19.4 for its HD programming, Comcast will also send it on at 19.4 Mbs.

However, if KSTP is sending out its one stream of digital upconvert and HD at 15 Mbps (very conceivable since it uses 720p), and reserves the 4.4 Mbps difference for other uses, then Comcast says it will only agree to send the HD signal out at the 15 Mbps-- exactly what KSTP sends it out at OTA.

Of course, if KSTP were to increase its HD bit rate from 15 Mbps to 19.4 Mbps, Comcast would have no problem matching the increase-- again, matching whatever KSTP does with its bit rate for the HD programming stream OTA.

So it is not a matter of "compression", it is a matter of Comcast offering that it will only send out one program stream-- the HD program stream-- at whatever bandwidth KSTP provides it at.

Thus, in the 15 Mps example, Comcast would be providing 15 Mbps instead of 19.4 Mbps to KSTP's digital signal, for one program stream, but that would NOT constitute compressing the HD signal. Quite the opposite, it would be devoting all the bandwidth to the HD signal that KSTP does OTA.

Whereas Hubbard is offering that Comcast must send out whatever KSTP can pack into 19.4 Mbps, regardless of number of channels or streams, and Hubbard is not specifying what those multiple digital channels or streams would be.

I'll see if the article is still in the trash.....its in my den. Hopefully I can find it. I want to say it talked about comcast compressing it to 11mps almost half. I'll check tonight and scan it if I have it.

This is why I just threw my hands up and installed a good OTA antenna in my attic. Every cable or Sattelite option was forcing to me to give up local channel access, so I would have had to go to an antenna anyway. The massive price increase necessary to just get a handful of additional HD channels via cable or satellite just wasn't worth it.