Jon/Rick
I am very much interested in making the plunge into HDTV but am concerned about what I'll be able to receive. I live in Salem MA and consider myself in a low area. About 25 years ago I had what was considered to be a half decent outdoor antenna and experienced severe problems with ghosting. I was told by several people this was because of the smoke stacks at the power plant.
I'm told today it's still a trial & error type thing. I find it hard to believe that there's no meter that could be used to check what one would get for reception.
What gives?

Ralph,
I live about 40 miles from the towers, in a low area with a hill in front of me and a 2 1/2 story condo in front of me. My Rat Shack antenna is in the attic of my 2 story home pointed directly at the 2nd floor of the condo. I also have a diplex of one sat line with the antenna signal. Without an amp I could get every station except FOX. With the amp I now get FOX. I consider my setup the worst case scenario. If it works at my house I think it should work in most peoples homes around the 495 belt.

---Andy Garabedian

P.S. If you can get Ch. 44 analog with a decent picture and sound you should be ok. My 44 is a bit snowy, but watchable.

[This message has been edited by andyg (edited 09-13-2001).]

Ralph,

Is the power plant still smoking? Maybe it is, and I just dont notice it. I was under the impression that they had to reduce the smoke.

Just FYI ... I have heard of the "channel 44 guideline" which probably is a good indicator, but I actually get a horrible picture on channel 44 with my current indoor antenna setup, and I still get a pretty reliable picture on CBS and ABC (sometimes reliable on NBC, and not too reliable on FOX).

My suggestion as to whether or not to "make the plunge into HDTV" is:

1.) Be sure to educate yourself on the Firewire / Copywrite Protection / 5C issues (personally, I'm not that educated on the issues, but since I had already bought my equipment before it was an issue, I couldnt do much about it anyway).

2.) Try to assume that you CAN get OTA HDTV from the high power networks (CBS and ABC), and buy your equipment locally from a store who allows you to return the equipment for a full refund. You are close enough to get the major networks, so just bite the bullet and get the best antenna setup in the beginning (use all RG6 quad shield cable, get a high db gain adjustable signal amplifier, get a high quality outdoor antenna properly installed, and consider a rotor). You will never know without trying.

3.) Because of the slight chance that for whatever reason you might NOT be able to get OTA, try not to get too excited until you see it does work. Even if it didnt, you would potentially be able to get satellite HDTV from DirecTV (HBO & HDnet / PPV) and/or DishNetwork (HBO, Showtime, PPV, and maybe CBS).

At the time I bought my equipment, I was temporarily living in my parents basement while my new house was being worked on. I knew I might not be able to get satellite HDTV because my house is surrounded by trees, but I figured that since I could get OTA with an indoor antenna in a basement, that I could get it anywhere. Now, I just want to get it more reliably (ie: not having to manually move the antenna) so I want it outdoors.

Ghosting is something I know little about. I dont think I've ever seen it (we got cable when I was real young, so my only antenna experience has been with a digital signal). Is ghosting as much of an issue with a digital signal? Is there a way to fix it if it is a problem? I've heard that high end JVC VCR's (the 9600 thru 9900 series) help ghosting, but how could you put one in the loop of a HDTV setup?

If at some point you are looking for an installer of an antenna and/or an HDTV capable satellite setup, I can recommend, "The Antenna Man" in Beverly, who did my DirecTV installation, and will probably be doing my antenna installation. He recommended that I have him intall a "Channel Master 4-bay UHF antenna with a rectangular mesh that is about 2-feet by 3-feet" ... does anyone have any comments on this antenna (I dont have the model number for it).

------------------
Rick W. Scogland

My Email Address:
rickscogland@mediaone.net

My Home Theater:
The Scogland Home Theater (http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000169.html)

[This message has been edited by RScogland (edited 09-14-2001).]

Originally posted by spearse:
Hi Bob Hess,
Do you have any contacts at WHDH (NBC)? They have very obvious problems with field interleaving, so they have bad ghosting delays with all their material. They are also out of lipsync. I really wonder if they even watch their own signal?

Also, are they still in beta mode? Their signal is the weakest by far, worse than Fox. ABC and CBS are pegged at full strength.

BTW, last couple of days UPN and CBS have been swapping! Very odd.
Steve

Steve,

I'll pass your comments on to WHDH. I'm not sure of what power they are operating at right now, but they do have the capability of operating at full power. Perhaps they have some technical problems. They are not located at the WBZ site.

WBZ-4, UPN-38 and UPN-28 are all located in the same facility. We have used all three stations to distribute the current news updates. Last night, we simulcast our 7 PM UPN-38 news on WBZ-4. We also had WCBS from NYC up on UPN-38 last night.

Bob


[This message has been edited by Bob Hess (edited 09-14-2001).]

Thanks Bob! You're terrific.

I take it from an above post that NBC is not at full power, explaining why their signal is comparatively weak (FOX is also weak vs. CBS and ABC).

Looks like NBC in Boston put up DTV as an afterthought anyway-- they don't pass Leno through in hi-def.

Steve

Andy/Rick
Thanks for the feedback, I guess I'll do a little more research on receivers and antennas then bite the bullet.

Thanks again!

I have found that the Panasonic TU-HDS20 guide has 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, and 25-1. But channels 4 and 7 are not picked up there. Instead they are 4 = 30.1 (which is on the guide without any program info) and 7 = 42-1 (which does not show up on the guide at all, even after it comes up fine when entered. 5-1 comes up fine, as does 25-1. This is with an indoor antenna and only a few miles from the towers.

Dear Viewers,

Thank you for your continued interest in WGBH digital broadcasting. *We are pleased to announce that WGBH will be testing its digital broadcast transmitter on WGBH-DT19 on 9/24 through 9/27 from 7:00 PM - 12:00 AM.

The principal digital programming event on Monday, September 24 through Thursday, September 27 - to be broadcast from 8:00PM to 10:00PM each evening - will be EVOLUTION, a seven-part series produced by WGBH for national distribution on PBS.

EVOLUTION will be broadcast in Boston in high definition format (1080i) on WGBH-DT19, and simultaneously (in analog) on WGBH-TV2. DTV-19 will rebroadcast the episode nightly from 10PM to Midnight.

This "journey into where we're from and where we're going" presents evolution from the perspective of science journalism, bringing to life Charles Darwin's simple theory that forms the bedrock of all biology.

Thank you for your interest in WGBH-DT19.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services
feedback@wgbh.org

A_S
Great news!! Do you know what power level you will be broadcasting DTV-19 at?
Ron

GREAT NEWS WGBH!!!!! Keep up the good work! I'll look forward to Evolution in 1080i

Thanks!

Audience_Services,

Awesome! I can't begin to tell you how excited I am about seeing 'GBH's Evolution (lousy pun intended http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif) in HD!

Regards -- Steve

Great news! Finally quality HDTV in Boston!!
Steve

Audience_Services,

Please pass along our appreciation to all those at WGBH that are making this possible. We may complain a bit, but we truly do appreciate the efforts. And please don't be a stranger...keep us in the loop!

Now where's that checkbook... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif

Chip

Given the current state of my Durham feed, really looking forward to the PBS flagship returning to flagship status.

Checkbook comes out when I get more than 0% signal strength on 19.

Looking forward to plenty of HD content on WGBH-DT. Hopefully you can rebroadcast the Jiohn Singer Sargent production, given that he is considered a "local son."

Tim

[This message has been edited by rudolpht (edited 09-19-2001).]

I, too am ecstatic about this. In previous posts I documented my cessation of contributions to WGBH until they went HD. Well, I guess my membership just got renewed.

SMK

Durham rules!

------------------
Steve P

WGBH on the air is HUGE news. Granted it's only a test for a few days but, hopefully, we'll see more in the immediate future...particularly HD material.

Now, if NBC would produce more HD programming I'll bet our local affiliate would take the plunge as well.

Originally posted by jeff43:
... it's only a test for a few days

Only a test??????? Durham definitely does rule if WGBH does not carry ALL PBS digital feed HD events.

Tim

speculation:
"we're testing" = code for we can't justify the power bill full time yet. I suspect HD events will all be carried.

REMINDER: PBS-HD's Evolution begins airing tonight, Monday, September 24 through Thursday, September 27. I can't wait http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Regards -- Steve

I have had no problems with WFXT, in fact I watched the football game yesterday afternoon. There has been no decrease in signal strength on the other stations. Maybe you are having a problem with your antenna?

SMK

is WGBH DT19 being broadcast from the towers in Needham? Should I be able to tune it in before 7pm tonight when they begin testing?

------------------

Todd

The HT-2-B (http://members.aol.com/ejwize/HT/TheaterDeMelle.html)

As of 7 PM tonite channel 19-3 is alive. It maps to 80-3 on my reciever. It looks great. Signal strength 100.

Finally WGBH in HD.

------------------
Jim

[This message has been edited by jjm75 (edited 09-24-2001).]

Has anyone been able to tune into WGBH 19 with a Dish 6000 receiver. I've added the channel and it appears to map to channel 80. My 6000, however doesn't let me tune to the channel http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif

Help -- Steve

If you own a Dish 6000, change your local channel option from off-air to cable. This will allow the receiver to map to channel 80-3.

Originally posted by johnt:
If you own a Dish 6000, change your local channel option from off-air to cable. This will allow the receiver to map to channel 80-3.

That did it! Thanks

Anyone have trouble with WGBH-DT tonight? I was getting signal levels all over the map on my Mitsubish SR-HD5 - peaked at 79, but dropping into the low 50's, sometimes completely gone. And WCVB-DT (20) was very low as well - couldn't even get a picture.

I ended up switching out my R/S UXR-75 with a Silver Sensor, and was able to get a rock solid 79 on WGBH, and 100 on WCVB - but I'm still getting blocking on WGBH. WCVB is now perfect. Could the signals be interfering with each other somewhat? I mean, could there be fringe patterns created by both VHF channel 19 and 20 and some multipath of one of them - and it's eliminated when I switch antennas?

WGBH is still pretty much unwatchable, though, even with the solid (though not 100) signal strength. Pretty wierd.

Are any RF engineers watching???

Edit: I also forgot to mention - is WCVB-DT's scaler out of commission? Or is it ABC's network feed? It seems that every other scan line is blank. My 27" TV on the normal analog channel 5 looks OK, but on my 65" Mits, it makes it look like the line doubler is disabled (it's not, but that's what it reminds me of).

------------------
*****|>
*****|\
****/|*\
***/*|__\
**/__|____
**\_ ___ _ \

Jon Gauthier
"If I'm not sailing I'd rather be watching sailing in HD!" - Me

[This message has been edited by jonlgauthier (edited 09-24-2001).]

I missed the 8-10pm broadcast of evolution, but tuned into the supposed 10-12pm showing. It's not there-- they are showing Africa in widescreen standard def. The websites all say it's supposed to be evolution! Did PBS mess up? Anyone watching it?
Steve

Evolution was a great program. WGBH-DT was solid at a signal of 83 on my DTC-100. Signal did drop out for a short period and then came back. I think they had a problem. Switched to WENH-DT While they were off. Program was repeated on GBH analog at ten PM.

Pat

Tewksbury

An easy add to the Dish 6000 (with the cable vs. OTA). On the DST-3000 getting odd mapping (sat guide must not be set yet). 19 shows 100% signal strength, but does not show up as 19-3. Unselecting channel 57-1 & -2 in local setups lets you input 19-3 that shifts you to 80-3 but picture quits after a few minutes.

Tim

I just got this e-mail from Christie at Titantv.com
It appears that WBGH's plans for DTV channel 19 are still uncertain........

Thank you for continuing to visit TitanTV.com and provide feedback. WGBH is indeed beginning to broadcast their HD signal this week. They will be airing the Evolution series as you mentioned. We are currently in the process of getting this information from our program provider Tribune Media Services. The status of the digital signal after the Evolution series is complete is still unknown from WGBH. It is possible they will take the signal down for a time after the series runs. Thanks again for visiting TitanTV and for providing feedback. We will update the site as soon as we get this new programming information. Thanks!

Christie Midthun
Decisionmark Corp.

Picture quality was great. It's about time. I enjoyed the Paris presentation. The picture was astounding. Even my wife watched the show as well as the Darwin show. I did have one picture loss, but it came back after a few minutes.

--Andy

PS Jon, Ch 19 and 20 are UHF, if that's what you meant. Ch 13 is the last VHF station.

Is anyone else having trouble with WFXT?? I have not been able to receive any signal at all for the past 5 days, before I that i did get a signal strenght of about 60-65% with my dish 6000.
Also I noticed that the same day that FOX disappeared, ABC 20-1 and NBC 42-02 signal strenght got weaker, going fro, 80-85 to 70 for ABC and from 70-75 to 55-60 for NBC.
Anyone else having these same problems?

Originally posted by spearse:
I missed the 8-10pm broadcast of evolution, but tuned into the supposed 10-12pm showing. It's not there-- they are showing Africa in widescreen standard def. The websites all say it's supposed to be evolution! Did PBS mess up? Anyone watching it?
Steve

Africa was on from 10-11 and then Evolution was on from 11-1am. Looked great. Signal strength on my DTC100 was only around 65 but I didn't experience any audio or video dropouts.

/Matt

HI,

Here in Framingham, I did get a signal strength of 76-80 on my DISH 6000 (WGBH). The Paris travel show was awesome. The evolution program wasnt as crisp and sharp. I did lose signal suddenly at around 8:45. I switched to WBZ and found it was gone too. But WCVB was still there. At about 9pm or so I switched back to WGBH and it was back. I look forward to watching WGBH more.

I also noticed the black lines on WCVB. It happened over the weekend too but it was fixed in a couple of hours. I havent checked this morning.

Also, seems like since this weekend, WFXT has reduced its power??? I used to get a strong signal, around 83-85 and now its in the 60s. Anyone else seeing that?

Sal

Sal,

Glad it wasn't just me. I had exactly the same issues. I was getting a solid signal (about 85%) then completely lost it for about five minutes. Same with WBZ. Also noticed the WCVB problem. Definately looked like every other scan line was black. WFXT seemed to go out over the weekend, but I was able to get a weak signal last night.

As for the quality of the programming, I agree that Smart Travels looked better, but that is because (I believe) it is shot with HD cams as opposed to being a film transfer. Evolution and Africa were film transfers, and of the two I would say Africa was a bit better. Of course this could be due to the nmaterial more than the actual transfer as HD tends to shine with outdoor material.

All in all I would say it was a pretty good showing for WGBH. I certainly expected a few more problems this being their first public attempt.

Chip



[This message has been edited by chs4 (edited 09-25-2001).]

Hey Chip,

The scan line issue with WCVB seems to be fixed right now. Both times ive noticed it I think has been during football games, so maybe theres something wrong with how they are patching in the ABC feed into their 720p encoders?????

Also an interesting thing was that Evolution was broadcast in DD5.1. I was surprised that my blue DD light on the Sony lit up. All in all I think it was a great test by WGBH. Especially reading some threads on problems that ABC has been having in switching to the HD feed in various parts of the country. Anyone know when WGBH will go full time?? The test is scheduled till the 27th. Will they shut off after that?

I also had to switch to the "cable" setting to get 80. I do get all the digital stations properly, but analog have gone, which is no big deal to me anyway.

Maybe someone from WFXT can shed some light asto why they have dropped down from 720p to 480p and also why the drop in power?

Sal

Hi Guys,

There was a momentary power failure last night around 8:50 PM. Our transmitter went through its entire power-up cycle so we were off for about 8 minutes.

Bob Hess
WBZ

Dear Viewers,

Please note that there is an update to the previously reported air times for the WGBH DTV19 test. Tonight (9/25) through Thursday (9/27), the signal will be up from 7 PM - 1 AM. Evolution will air from 8-10 PM and again from 11 PM - 1 AM.

Thank you for your continued interest in WGBH DTV19.

Sincerely,
Audience & Member Services, WGBH

Yes, I wandered back at 11:30 and saw evolution playing (schedule showed it was supposed to start at 10pm), so I missed 1/2 hour. It would be great if WGBH posted its digital programming schedule at wgbh.org.

Evolution was 1080i, but Africa was simply widescreen standard def. (a good deal of PBS programs are this way). Note, all the animation sequences were full 1080i, but the non-animated parts seemed to be standard-def film transfer. That's why most of evolution seemed "soft" or non-high def.

Signal strength was very strong here in Concord.

What a great new addition to Boston high-def programming. Great job WGBH! Please continue to broadcast nights at least, even if it's just passing through the national feed.
Steve

I'm just another happy viewer of WGBH-DTV19's hi-def test broadcasting last night. I thought that if everyone who watched or will watch their testing braodcast could fill out the form below and email it back to feedback@wbgh.org then it will at least let them know that they have a fairly large HDTV market in Boston area.


*****Survey Form*******

location where you received the WGBH-DT19 signal:___________________

type of antenna (e.g. outdoor, indoor):_____________________

if outdoor, approx height above ground:____________________

type of DTV broadcast receiver (manufacturer/model #) or DTV tuner integrated in TV set:__________________________________

do you own more than one receiver capable of receiving a local DTV broadcast signal? yes (number) _____ no _______

type of display (manufacturer; projection or direct view; size; aspect ratio (4x3 or 16x9):_______________________________________

audio system: mono___stereo___Pro Logic___Dolby 5.1___other (please specify)

How would you rate the quality of the signal you received?

excellent___________
good______________
poor_______________
no signal received ______________

Please comment on any technical problems you encountered in receiving and displaying the WGBH-DT19 signal. ________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________

Wow, so this is where you guys are at!!! I felt so alone on the HD programming forum, then I was pointed to this thread. It explains many of the things that happened last night. Anyway, I sent my survey in last night and my pledge will be sent in shortly. I'll be tracking this thread with great interest. Regards - Hal

Dear Viewers,

We hope that the following information will be helpful to you. We appreciate the great response to our postings.

* DTV-19 debuted last night from 7PM to 1AM

* It will do the same through Thursday of this week

* We are passing through the PBS stream from the Network

* Most DTV receivers will use PSIP to identify the signal. *PBS identifies their network feed as 80-3, which is what most receivers will identify with. *This is confusing, because the actual transmission is on UHF CH.19.

* Prior postings had a replay of Evolution from 10 to midnight. *That replay has been moved to 11PM to 1AM.

* NSTAR had power problems in the Needham area Monday night at approximately 8:50PM. *This poorly timed outage caused disruptions to most major stations in Boston. *DTV-19, being computer based to a great degree, took about 5 minutes to recover. *WGBH engineering personnel are configuring UPS power to shorten this recovery time.

* Evolution was shot on Super 16mm film, and does not upconvert as crisply as a native HD program might.

* PBS is only sending stereo audio on the DTV stream, even though the show was produced in 5.1

* Future plans for DTV-19 include (minimally) a Friday night airing of a PBS series "Life360". *These tests will run through the end of the year.

Thank you again for your continued interest, and your patience as we test our broadcast systems.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services

Two months ago I sent WGBH a letter detailing the reasons I would not renew my membership, and that I would not do so until they were transmitting HD. Today I mailed them a check for double my previous membership contribution to help support these efforts. Last night's programming looked great.
SMK

[This message has been edited by RoyGBiv (edited 09-25-2001).]

Well I was home today so I tried tuning in to WGBH, but can't get enough signal, keeps jumping from 60 - 79% so I think I have a multipath problem. Ironically thru the jointenna I get WGBY clean so I guess I'll stick with that station. I took out the jointenna and went direct, still can't get enough of the WGBH signal. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif

-Mike

[This message has been edited by Prelude2k (edited 09-25-2001).]

Originally posted by chs4:

As for the quality of the programming, I agree that Smart Travels looked better, but that is because (I believe) it is shot with HD cams as opposed to being a film transfer. Evolution and Africa were film transfers, and of the two I would say Africa was a bit better. Of course this could be due to the material more than the actual transfer as HD tends to shine with outdoor material.
[This message has been edited by chs4 (edited 09-25-2001).][/B]

It is my understanding that the PBS program Evolution was shot in super16mm film and therefore may not have had the resolution that one would get with a program shot with 35MM film when transferred to HDTV tape.

brandish

------------------
Ross Kauffman

Is anyone else getting incorrect aspect ratios on WCVB-DT 20.1 and WFXT-DT 25.1? On WCVB-DT I'm seeing the 4x3 feed streteched horizontally to fill the full 16x9 screen instead of being bordered by black bars, while on WFXT-DT the 4x3 feed appears to be horizontally squeezed with larger black bars than normal. Other than the above mentioned scan line problem on WCVB, this is the first time in recent memory that I've seen any aspect ratio problems on my RCA F38310.

Originally posted by Eric Busch:
Is anyone else getting incorrect aspect ratios on WCVB-DT 20.1 and WFXT-DT 25.1? On WCVB-DT I'm seeing the 4x3 feed streteched horizontally to fill the full 16x9 screen instead of being bordered by black bars, while on WFXT-DT the 4x3 feed appears to be horizontally squeezed with larger black bars than normal. Other than the above mentioned scan line problem on WCVB, this is the first time in recent memory that I've seen any aspect ratio problems on my RCA F38310.

I noticed the same thing when I turned Chronicle on at 7:55PM. Then Darma and Greg came on in HD but not DD 5.1. I switched to 80-3 for a moment, switched back and Darma was in DD 5.1. I did this again switching to 199 then back and on the 3rd time, 20-1 had gone back to 480i stretched, and stayed like this all night. What's up ROSS?

------------------

WCVB-DT is definitely messed up. I wonder if the power outage "rebooted" out of OAR mode to WMUR standard stretchovision.

WFXT-DT signal doesn't look too much off, but signal quality is degraded significantly.

Also on 19-3, my DST-3000 doesn't even recognize it to map it. APG must not be updated. Also, because of that when 57-1 is broadcasting there appears to be "PSIP contention" with both (all PBS stations?) embedding the mapping. The Dish 6000 locks and keeps signal fine.

Tim

That was crazy. One channel stretched horizontally the other vertically. Someone must have had the Mad Magazine X-Ray glasses on.... PBS looked great though..

--Andy

Got readings in Lexington of 76 on my DTC100, for Ch 19 last night. (Get around 90 for ch 20 and 30).

So, what power is WGBH-DT at now? I assume my readings
indicate less power than full licensed power level.

PBS came in load and clear on Monday night, but didn't even register on Tuesday - were they broadcasting ? anybody else notice a loss or reduction of signal ?

Bob

Originally posted by rmertens:
PBS came in load and clear on Monday night, but didn't even register on Tuesday - were they broadcasting ? anybody else notice a loss or reduction of signal ?

Bob



I tuned in a little before 8PM and had a signal in the mid to high 70's. I watched until 10 without a single dropout or glitch. PQ was very good and the show was excellent. Thanks 'GBH!

Regards -- Steve

Originally posted by rmertens:
PBS came in load and clear on Monday night, but didn't even register on Tuesday - were they broadcasting ? anybody else notice a loss or reduction of signal ?

Bob


No problem with WGBH here, either. Signal strength seemed to be a few points weaker, but no problem locking on with an E*6000.

Chip

Picture was perfect @80% out in Shrewsbury.

btw, that survey address for feeback@wgbh.org doesn't seem to work. Email was returned.

Originally posted by Prelude2k:
Well I was home today so I tried tuning in to WGBH, but can't get enough signal, keeps jumping from 60 - 79% so I think I have a multipath problem.

A signal bouncing multiple times per minute is an indication of a multipath problem. This appears to be more of a problem in the Boston area, due to the many small hills and valleys we have in this area.

Antenna setup in the fringe areas is critical for rejecting multipath signals. Be sure the mast the antenna is mounted on is plumb, and tightly secured. Antenna pointing also affects the amount of multipath rejection. Back in the days of low power WBZ, I found 1 - 2 degrees would make the difference of getting the signal or not. After a heavy storm, I would be back up on the roof redirecting the antenna because it would shift slightly, due to the wind.

Humidity has an affect on the signal also. Just as water bends light, it tends to scatter the DTV signal, creating multipath. Last winter my antenna was buried in a snowdrift, and I lost all OTA signals, because of the snow surrounding the antenna.

If all else fails, there is Tim's Voodoo. A $10 Shadio Rack antenna attenuator that goes in line on the antenna wire. It has 1 knob on the top, that rotates from Min to Max, that regulates how much signal gets to your receiver. Call it an antenna booster in reverse. The theory is to reduce the level of the multipath signal, so the receiver only decodes the main signal. The digital picture is not affected by signal strength. It's either there or its not, and reducing the signal strength does not change the quality of the picture.

On a final note, Congratulations to everyone here. We have out lived the Denver Tower thread. Don't they owe us a case of Coors or something?

(Note to all the old timers: Sorry to be repeating this all again, but I think there are a few newcomers who might not have seen this discussion in this thread from over a year ago)




------------------
Nothing difficult ever turns out to be easy

PBS came in load and clear on Monday night, but didn't even register on Tuesday - were they broadcasting ? anybody else notice a loss or reduction of signal ?


I could not tune in WGBH last night until I did a quick channel scan on my Proscan tuner. Even tuning directly to 19-3 did not help until I performed the scan. This seems to happen a lot to me. OTA Channels disappear, I perform a scan and they are back. I don't know why. - Hal

Was Boston the only city that did not get a true HD broadcast of Philadelphia last night on ABC? What I saw was 480i wide screen.........

Originally posted by TomM:
Picture was perfect @80% out in Shrewsbury.

btw, that survey address for feeback@wgbh.org doesn't seem to work. Email was returned.

It is feedback@wgbh.org

WGBH is coming in just fine here in Bellingham. I too noticed that WCVB had gone into stretch mode and I'm also getting breakups on WFXT, which used to come in fine. On my WinTV-HD WFXT always used to give slightly lower SNR readings than the rest of the stations but I would still get a solid signal, not now.

Dave

Originally posted by Jim_S:
(Note to all the old timers: Sorry to be repeating this all again, but I think there are a few newcomers who might not have seen this discussion in this thread from over a year ago)

Jim,

This good info and appropriate for the expanding DTV Boston viewership (I guess as WGBH is recognizing and now serving). Your above did point out my inadvertent use of singnal quality vs. signal strength, which should be corrected.

I feel a fourth thread coming on, likely to be labeled Continuation III for folks mixed up by the naming conventions.

Tim

[This message has been edited by rudolpht (edited 09-26-2001).]

I had no problems with WGBH last night. Watched the "warm up" from 7 to 8 and Evolution til 10 without a drop out. Signal strength on DTC-100 was in the 80's. For WBZ and WCVB I usually get mid 80's to low 90's.

Keep up the good work! I do not wan the HD broadcasts to end after Thursday, WGBH!

SMK

WGBH was great last night! I'm not sure what the problem was on Monday night, but last night - with the same signal strength as on Monday, 79 - I didn't notice a single dropout during the whole Evolution broadcast. Same signal strength, no dropouts. Seems the humidity on Salem Harbor was the same, so the evidence points to something on the xmission end?

Man, WGBH is going to have a riot on their hands if they conclude their testing and don't show HDTV for a while. I'm guessing that Life360 (or whatever it's called) will be SDTV or maybe EDTV. They'll be testing interactivity with the new Zenith sister company settop box...


------------------
*****|>
*****|\
****/|*\
***/*|__\
**/__|____
**\_ ___ _ \

Jon Gauthier
"If I'm not sailing I'd rather be watching sailing in HD!" - Me

Originally posted by wkhz:
It is feedback@wgbh.org
Ok, fat fingers.... thanks

[This message has been edited by TomM (edited 09-26-2001).]

WCVB-DT lost the ABC-DT satellite receiver Tuesday night and will not receive a replacement until at least Thursday.
The program was upconverted NTSC but most likely a cockpit error caused the upconverted to be switched to th 16:9 mode.
In the confusion the audio may not have been properly switched.

brandish

Ross, thanks for the update.

Hi All,
WGBH-DT was solid last night and looks like they upped their power. Signal on the DTC-100 went from 83 to 94. All other stations WCVB-DT and WBZ-DT were all at 94 also. Great signal.

I don't know what the problem is with WCVB-DT last night, but I also saw the stretched 480i picture in 16x9. I switched to WMUR-DT and they were transmitting ABC's programs in 16x9 and full HD.

Good to see so much in HD, had to make programming decisions last night. September is a watershed month for HD, for sure.

Pat

Tewksbury, MA


------------------
HDjunky

For the WGBH Audience Services: Can a schedule be posted of when WGBH-DT 19 will transmit now that the tests are over? It was mentioned that "minimally" you would have Life360. Do you plan on passing other PBS HD material?

It would be very difficult to get an audience for WGBH-DT 19 unless they know when they can tune in.

Thanks,
Sal

The ABC-HD receiver was replaced yesterday Thursday Sep 27. so WCVB-DT now can broadcast the ABC HD programs that ABC supplies.

Unfortunately ABC only supplies HD programing that was originally shot on film, therefore last night the shows were not suppled in HD as they are show not originated on film. I suspect it will be some time before the network will originate their news magazines programs in HD and even longer for the straight newcasts to be in HD.

I believe to some extent CBS HD follows much the same policy that ABC has implemented where only programs originated on film are in HD.



------------------
Ross Kauffman

Just got word from Ross Kauffman (brandish) that the WCVB receiver sat replacement was completed Thursday (yesterday) so with any luck we should have WCVB-DT in 720p tonight for Thieves at 9pm and Once and Again at 10pm. Fingers crossed....!

------------------
Hopelessly addicted to HDTV and lost deep in the woods of Charlton, MA - Rich
rharvey@at-com.com

Richard,

It's ON in glorious DD 5.1 also.

Great news. Thanks WCVB.

19 showed PBS in HD (the flagship has raised it's flag). Here's hoping at least all HD material on PBS gets turned ON. Thanks WGBH.

Also received CBS HD on Dish thanks to waiver efforts of Bob Hess & William Hague, though I always watch WBZ-DT for CBS.

It's been a great week in HD in Boston. Maybe there's even hope for WHDH.... Nawwwwwwwwwww.

Tim

[This message has been edited by rudolpht (edited 09-28-2001).]

Message to Bob Hess:

Bob, any target date for WSBK-38 going digital?

Thanks.

the signal from fox is jumping all over the place any body else having the same problem i miss my dark angel
thanks
gene
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Originally posted by gene avallon:
the signal from fox is jumping all over the place any body else having the same problem i miss my dark angel
thanks
gene
GOD BLESS AMERICA

I've been seeeing the problem as well http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif. Oddly, it'll do it (short duration freezes, pixelation, etc) for a couple of minutes and then my Dish 6000 ird will finally lock in. If I don't switch channels once it has locked, the picture is fine and free of dropouts. I was able to watch Dark Angel last night and only missed the first couple of minutes while the 6000 was trying to lock on to the signal.

Regards -- Steve

yeah for over a week, ive been having problems with WFXT. Used to be solid 85 .. now its in the 60s and doesnt hold. oh well theyre just FOX!

Anyone know when WGBH will do more broadcasts?

Sal

Is everyone seeing incorrect station times? WBZ (4.1) and WFXT (25.1) are both about an hour behind, while WHDH (7.1) is about 7 minutes slow. WCVB (20.1) doesn't seem to update the time on my system.

I've found a little trick that seems to work.set the 6000 for the fox channel shut the TV off for a min turn back on and you get a steady signal don't change channels and come back you will have to start over.this works for me
gene

god bless America

Where do I find WGBH DTV 19? I have a Panasonic TU-HDS20 receiver that receives NBC (42-1), ABC (20-1), CBS (30-1) and FOX (25-1). But when I try 19-1, 19-2, 19-3, etc. nothing. Same when I try 80-1, etc. Any assistance appreciated.

I cant believe I missed it. Shyte. When will they broadcast again? Is there a website that lists times? What is the channel??

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WGBH-DT is in test. When it's not testing then there is no signal to lock (similar to Manchester, but they run 2 hours per night plus all PBS HD material).

Let's hope we here when they'll be up again.

Tim

What is going on with FOX anyways? I was able to get channel 25-1 with a signal strenght of 60-65 on my dish 6000
However, for the past two weeks the signal has gone down to 0-50% and it won't lock in at all! Is this a problem with my Dish receiver, should I try moving my antenna? or is it a problem with Fox's transmiter? (low power maybe?)

When is the next WGBH test?

Originally posted by lwhitman:

Message to Bob Hess:

Bob, any target date for WSBK-38 going digital?

Thanks.

Spring, 2002.

We will be airing a UPN38 movie on WBZ-DT in hi def. No date yet.

- Bob

Has anyone been successful in receiving the datacasting that WGBY (channel #58) have been broadcasting? If so, what PC card are using and what exactly have they been sending out?

Originally posted by Bob Hess:
We will be airing a UPN38 movie on WBZ-DT in hi def.
Cool.

Tim

Dear Viewers,

We are please to announce the following test dates for the WGBH DT19 broadcast signal:

Thursday - 10/4 - 8AM to Noon
Thursday - 10/11 - 8AM to 4PM
Thursday - 10/18 - 8AM to 4PM
Friday Nights - (10/5 - Until Further Notice) *- 7PM to 1AM Sat. Morn.

We hope that you all enjoy the programming being offered during this testing phase. Please direct any comments to feedback@wgbh.org. Thank you for your continued interest in WGBH DT19.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services

Hi,

Thanks WGBH. I hope more PBS HD material is showcased soon.

Also seems like WFXt is back to its "normal" power. The intermittent signal in the 60s on my DISH 6000 has been replaced by a strong signal around 85. Now if they only did HD http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Sal

WCVB-DT will repeat a Chronicle in HD Wednesday October 5 at 7:30 PM.

Brandish

Looking foreward to Chronicle.

Would that be Wednesday -OR- October 5th? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Dave

[This message has been edited by David Fisk (edited 10-02-2001).]

Chronicle is Oct 3 7:30PM Sorry for the mistake... used a September calendar.

Brandish

Brandish,

I know WCVB-DT is back up but I was get a lot of drops last night (and delayed audio on 9:30pm show), though general signal was in the 80s on two of my STBs. Are some kinks still being worked out do you know. Also getting 5.1 audio all the time, which is good when it's really 5.1, but at least the flags are set for constant 5.1.

Tim

Tim,
The signal quality in Tewksbury was 94 on the DTC-100 all evening. There were no changes in that reading during the breakups in the picture. I think that the problem is in the data stream rather then in the data transmission system. I was wondering if it had to do with the PSIP data, then thinking about it WCVB does not seem to be using the PSIP stream. Hope they fix it soon.

Pat

------------------
HDjunky

I was getting breakups on WBZ-DT as well last night. I had thought that I might need to adjust my antenna as I had moved it to try to pick up WFXT-DT better.

Dave

[This message has been edited by David Fisk (edited 10-03-2001).]

Hurray for WGBH! At least we get regular friday night broadcasts! Hope we get lots of HD stuff--
Steve

Originally posted by Soycrema:
no problems with CBS or ABC last night, signal strenght at 72 for both on my dish 6000. Also was able to receive WFXT finally! after 2 weeks, with 56 signal strenght (was 0-30 for the last 2 weeks)

Soycrema,

What hours were you watching ABC? As I said the signal strength was high and fairly constant but there were numerous breakups. Solid signal strength does not equal solid picture and sound, as proven last night.

Concur with Pat's assessment.

Tim

Tim,

Well, I was watching TV between 7-10pm, I did not notice any breakups, however the PQ was not that great on ABC, it looked very grainy. Did get 5.1

I also saw a lot of breakups on WCVB-DT last night but it was not a signal strength issue... definitely the source. It's also not a PSIP issue because on my DTC-100 I have PSIP turned-off.

/Matt

no problems with CBS or ABC last night, signal strenght at 72 for both on my dish 6000. Also was able to receive WFXT finally! after 2 weeks, with 56 signal strenght (was 0-30 for the last 2 weeks)

Originally posted by Audience_Services:
Dear Viewers,

We are please to announce the following test dates for the WGBH DT19 broadcast signal:

Thursday - 10/4 - 8AM to Noon
Thursday - 10/11 - 8AM to 4PM
Thursday - 10/18 - 8AM to 4PM
Friday Nights - (10/5 - Until Further Notice) *- 7PM to 1AM Sat. Morn.

We hope that you all enjoy the programming being offered during this testing phase. Please direct any comments to feedback@wgbh.org. Thank you for your continued interest in WGBH DT19.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services

On my DCT-100 DT19 is mapped to WGBH-HD (2-1), WGBH-S1 (2-2) and WGBH-S2 (2-3).

That's what 19 looks like on my Dish6000. Tried tuning in 2-1 a few minutes ago... good signal strength, but no picture.

------------------

Todd

The HT-2-B (http://members.aol.com/ejwize/HT/TheaterDeMelle.html)

During lunch time I went home and tried to watch the digital channels. WFXT (31) is gone again, no signal.
WCVB (20) was blank, no image or audio at all. I checked the signal strenght on my dish 6000 and there was a strong signal, about 80% but it would not lock in.
Seems weird, anyone else noticed these problems?

HI,

I am now getting 020-02 on my DISH 6000. 020-01 is blank, but I am getting video and audio on the second subchannel.
WFXT-DT is still offline.

Can anyone from either station please let us know whats going on?

Sal

I noticed 42-1 all over the place at 8PM tonight.

There are two many whacky coincidences going on.

Tim

Since getting the latest dtc100 upgrade (a05.10), I tried enabling the off-air guides again. All of my mapping is very messed up. I get WBZ (CBS) on channels 81-1 and 39-1 and cvb (ABC) on 71-1 and 118-1. I don't get fox or nbc (never have). When I tried the program guides previously (before the update, with 4.37) the channel mapping worked much better with wbz showing as 4-1. There were other issues, however, which were why I disabled it.

I tried disabling again and rescanning, but the stations still show as 81,39,71,118. Anybody else getting this?

jake
ps. I have the proscan, not the actual rca dtc-100.

ok, playing in the system options menu, i found that my signal type was set to "cable", upon changing to "air" i did a quick scan and the stations are back to their old numbering (20,30).

I will now try the program guides again...

jake

hmmm... i've found a culprit. when i switched back to obtaining guides after having set my signal type back to air, the system did a full rescan and RESET MY SETTING TO CABLE!!

I'm not sure why turning on program guides should trigger a switch from air to cable, any thoughts?

jake

Chronicle last night was super for 5 minutes or so then
nothing the rest of the half hour, though the transmitter was on.

Hope Ch 20 will re-run this and let us know when. I can't even contact them on their new web site. It only half way works at all with my Netscape. I can select who to contact, but nothing more!

=================================================
This am I saw 2-1 2 and 3 but programs were only on 2-2 and 2-3 when I left for work.

2-1 was just a black screen, and was labeled WGBH-HD, so I guess they plan to keep it that way when broadcasting 480I.

HI,
I tuned to WCVB last evening. At about 7:26, all they had on was a black screen with audio. At 7:30 I heard "test left channel, test right channel" from my speakers, and then it switched to the HD program. At 7:40 the screen froze and there was no audio either. After waiting a little bit, I switched channels.

This morning WGBH did map to 002, subchannels 1-3 on my 6000. 1 was blank but 2 and 3 carried SD channels. it was working fine earlier, but when i re-tuned a little before noon, i was getting no picture or sound and the signal was fluctuating too. I had locks on both WBZ and WCVB at the same as usual, so I dont think its my antenna. Also seems like WFXT-DT is off the air... again http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Sal

I think i've figured it out. it has nothing to do with the program guides, a function of the full channel scan is to automatically determine the "proper" setting for cable vs. air. Unfortunately, in my case, it was convinced i was using cable despite the fact that i very definitely have only my radio shack double bowtie hooked up to the antenna inputs ("B", "A" is empty).

anyway, I know i learned something tonight, hopefully someone else can too.

jake

ps. sorry for all the posts, I guess I got a bit carried away http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by jakehall (edited 10-05-2001).]

Any Toshiba DST 3000 owners out there having reception problems with WBZ???

Bob Hess
WBZ

HI,

I am still not seeing any signal from WFXT-DT, and last night, during the Millionaire show on WCVB-DT, I again saw the same black line problem, where every alternate scan line is black. And I am still getting WCVB on a sub channel 2 now. That never happened before on WCVB. WHDH-DT still appears on 42-02 even though it does say 7 on the set-up/signal strength screen.

Sal

I had the same. No WFXT and the lines on cvb.

???

FREAK!



------------------
http://home.mindspring.com/~ajcevans/_uimages/meandjameshts2.JPG

Crossing Jordon is being broadcast by NBC Monday in HD!!!!

Is there any chance that WHDH will finally transmit in 1080i? I mean, why do they even bother putting the dt after WHDH logo?

Dear Viewers,
We are please to announce the following test dates for the WGBH DT19 broadcast signal:

Thursday - 10/4 - 8AM to Noon
Thursday - 10/11 - 8AM to 4PM
Thursday - 10/18 - 8AM to 4PM
Friday Nights - (10/5 - Until Further Notice) - 7PM to 1AM Sat. Morn.

We hope that you all enjoy the programming being offered during this testing phase. Please direct any comments to feedback@wgbh.org. Thank you for your continued interest in WGBH DT19.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services



Its 10/5 8:15pm. My DTC-100 shows 93 for strength on channel 19-1, but, no signal, no picture, no joy... Anyone else getting WGBH-HD?

Mark Haskins

Hi,

WGBH-DT is currently broadcasting on 2 subchannels. They are both SD 480i programs. I am receiving them on 002-02 and 002-03 on a DISH6000. 002-01 is blank. I think Life360 is at 10pm??? Maybe then they will switch to the HD feed.

Sal

Thanks for the quick response Sal. Maybe your right about waiting until 10pm. I wonder if I'll get anything though. I just did a full scan on the DTC-100 and it didn't pick up those sub-channels. The strong 93 signal is actually showing up as 19-2 not 19-1. Still no picture...

Mark H

Hi,

I dont have a DTC-100, but from what I have heard, try reversing your Off-Air-Guide setting, and see if that works. Other than that I dont know what to tell you. I am currently watching college hockey, but will keep checking periodically to see if WGBH starts broadcasting an HD signal.

Sal

I'm not getting WGBH digital, despite a high signal strength on channel 19.

I've got the Mits HD5 box. Anyone else having luck with GBH?

Also, am I safe to assume that if I get a decent picture on their analog stations (2 and 44) that I should be able to get the digital signal ok?

-j

Hi,

Yep, I just checked again, and I am getting WGBH-DT. 2 subchannels are broadcasting SD programs. I have a DISh 6000. Its interesting that the 2 people with strong signal but no picture, are both on DirecTV boxes.

Anyone else getting or not getting WGBH-DT?

As an aside, lots of HD on right now, ABC, CBS, HBO and showtime. I want an HD-PVR http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Sal

Hmm. Now i'm seeing 2-2, but it was pretty poor quality. I had my Mits HD-5 rescan, and 2-2 went away...

-j

After resetting the local channel config on the HD-5 and having it rescan again, I'm seeing 2-1, 2-2 and 2-3. There doesn't seem to be anything on 2-1, and both 2-2 and 2-3 have very bad audio and video breakups...

-jeff

Hi,

Well, Life360 did start at 10, but its not in HD. and not even widescreen. They are still broadcasting two 480i channels on 2-02 and 2-03.

WCVB seems to be doing a much better job today. Once and Again looks pretty good, and the audio is good too.

Sal

I'm getting 2-x, pretty clean out here in middle of no where central Mass on a Dish 6000. I was expecting to watch Life 360 on 2-1... but it's been black all evening.

-Mike

I am getting my usual complement of Hd , i.e., 4-1,42-1, etc. and am also receiving WGCH , channel 2-1, digital with a signal strength of 76 but no picture, just black. It's 10:18PM.Channels 2-2 and 2-3 are giving signals but are not HD. Is there supposed to be some GBH-HDTV on tonight? How about a schedule? Any links?

How's the quality of the 2-2 and 2-3 pictures? Solid audio/video or breakups?

I noticed i'm getting a strength of 75 for WGBH, while I'm getting 100 for all the other locals.

Is WGBH broadcasting from the same towers in Needham, or might I need to move my antenna?

-j

Hi,

HD on 42-1???? Thats WHDH (NBC) you are talking about? Are they doing HD now????

Sal

The signal on 2-2,2-3 IS GOOD. still nothing on 2-1. Sorry, no hd on 42-1, just digital is what i meant.

Bob,

I'll check again tonight. I kbow over the past couple of days I did jump to Dish which has a better tuner & then to the Sat feed to avoid issues.

Tim

Bob Hess,

WBZ-DT on the Toshiba DST-3000 (and Dish 6000) seems to be the only reliable station today in Boston. WGBH maps as per above on the 6000 (need to see what it does on the 3000 but I assume it will not map corrects and I don't know if the subcarriers will map to 80-x). 42 is still jumping all over & breaking up. WFXT-DT was dark as well as WCVB-20.

Aliens?
Need more voodoo?

Tim

2-2 and 2-3 gave me lots of dropouts, freezes and pixellation - pity because the signal is relatively strong (on a par with nbc and fox).

Bob

Originally posted by jeffw:
I'm not getting WGBH digital, despite a high signal strength on channel 19.

I've got the Mits HD5 box. Anyone else having luck with GBH?

Also, am I safe to assume that if I get a decent picture on their analog stations (2 and 44) that I should be able to get the digital signal ok?

-j

I received WGBH-DT 2-2 & 2.3 on a Mits HD5 box. There was occassional pixelation on both programs. 2-1 was dark.

brandish

Brandish,

When did you do a scan that worked on the Mits?

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht:
Brandish,

When did you do a scan that worked on the Mits?

Tim

I scanned on Friday evening Oct 5 not sure of the exact time but between 6p and 9P.

Brandish

Is anyone having any problems with strange pixelation with some of the Boston stations? I'm trying to figure out if it's my Dish 6000 (only 6mos old) or the stations themselves. 4-1, 20-2 and 42-2 I've seen an occasional pixelation blip, usually towards the bottom, every couple of minutes randomly, audio uneffected. Just started happening this week, and I know a lot of the stations were acting up, so can't tell if it's just a coincidence or not.
Thanks,

-Mike

Just a reminder to everyone regarding WGBH-DT:

The second phase of DVT testing does not involve HDTV - it involves interactive SDTV with a special Triveni (a Zenith-affiliate) two-way/interactive settop box. The series "Life360" is the interactive pilot.

Let's hope that in the future, WGBH doesn't stake it's reputation soley on interactive SDTV and multicasting. My hope is that one of the local PBS stations (WGBH or WGBX) carries primarily HDTV programming, the other can do multicasting or whatever...

------------------
*****|>
*****|\
****/|*\
***/*|__\
**/__|____
**\_ ___ _ \

Jon Gauthier
"If I'm not sailing I'd rather be watching sailing in HD!" - Me

Just in case anyone is wondering, WBZ-DT had two momentary power failures last week. One on Monday evening and one on Thursday evening. The Monday problem caused our transmitter to drop off for about 5 minutes. The Thursday problem caused the transmitter to drop to half power for a while. The other digital stations in our building probably had similar problems (WGBH, WCVB).

We just did a software upgrade on our encoder this morning. Let me know if you have any problems.

***WBZ DTV Hotline - 617-787-7043***
(rings in our master control. Call only to report problems)

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV

Bob,

WBZ-DT looks good on both a DST-3000 & Dish 6000, as usual. I'll report if any anomolies during HD broadcast.

All Dish 6000ers,

While WCVB was working fine on the DST-3000, I was getting blankscreen on 20-1. Appears WCVB is now using 20-2.

Tim

Bob Hess: signal continues to be very strong down in Taunton. I only wish WCVB would be as consistent. As for WHDH, it's hit or miss (sometimes I get it,sometimes I don't) and WFXT must be down altogether (no signal).

------------------

Originally posted by Benji:
Bob Hess: signal continues to be very strong down in Taunton. I only wish WCVB would be as consistent. As for WHDH, it's hit or miss (sometimes I get it,sometimes I don't) and WFXT must be down altogether (no signal).



I have not been able to receive WFXT for a few days already. As for WHDH I don't care that much because I won't watch theirs until they start passing HDTV.

Does anyone know what's up with WFXT? Are they totally off the air for their digital signal?

-j

I just sent them a not that I was very disappointed in whdh-dt and I’ll be watching a lot of wdz-dt.

MikeD

I just sent my message to Viewer feedback/programming and Station managment, requesting HDTV.
Does anybody know what is up with WFXT??? It has been down for a week now.

Soycrema,

I just got my dtv last night so I can’t tell you too much. On my Sony 34xbr2 and a simple uhf antenna, I was only able to get wbz-dt, wcvb-dt, and whdh-dt in digital. www.titantv.com (http://www.titantv.com) said I should able to get several more. I’m not sure if this is because of my very simple uhf antenna or something else. I live near 495 between 93 & 3.

MikeD

Hi MikeD,

Take TitanTV's guide with a grain of salt, it says the same about me, and also doesn't list stations I do recieve. According to it's list, I should receive all of the CT stations, WMUR in NH and only 2 Boston stations... However except for WFXT which is down right now, I get all the Boston + Marlborough stations. I pointed the antenna towards CT in several places, and I can't get any of them, just WGBY in Springfield, MA.

-Mike

MikeD,
I also live in Tewksbury, I get WBZ-DT, WCVB-DT, WHDH-DT, WHUB-DT, WFXT-DT (when it is on), WMUR-DT (when it is on) and WENH-DT (when it is on). WGBH-DT is on periodically and is testing during the day. On Friday it is on after 7PM. WENH-DT is on nightly at 7PM and extended hours on weekends. WENH-DT you will need a good outside antenna.
So welcome to AVS forum and to HDTV. Do you have DBS?

Pat

------------------
HDjunky

MikeD,

Hi, I agree with Prelude2k. I have a large Radio Shack UHF outdoor antenna on my roof, connected to a 25db amplifier. With this set up I can receive WCVB (20) with a 75-80% signal, WBZ (30 re-mapped to 4-1) with 70-75% signal, the Marlborough channels 23-1 and 23-2 with 80% signal, WHDH (42 re-mapped to 42-2)with 65-70% signal, WGBH (19 re-mapped to 2-1, 2-2 and 2-3 when they are actually on the air) with 80% signal and finally WFXT (31 re-mapped to 25-1) with a 55-60% signal, but this channel has been down for over a week. Contrary to what Titantv.com says, I cannot get any other stations from my location in Northborough either from NH or CT.

Hey Boston folks..
Now that NBC is supplying prime-time HDTV, isn't it time to re-apply pressure on WHDH to upgrade their DTV signal?
WHDH Contact Page (http://www.whdh.com/contact/)

[This message has been edited by thartnett (edited 10-09-2001).]

Sent a heartfelt HD request--now awaiting a reply. If there is anything good to report, I'll pass it on in this thread.

------------------

Originally posted by Benji:
Sent a heartfelt HD request--now awaiting a reply. If there is anything good to report, I'll pass it on in this thread.



I sent them a note Friday thru their website asking once again when they might see fit to turn it on. As of today, (Tuesday), no reply.

Jay

Thanks everyone for the info.


Pat,

Someone has a big a big outdoor antenna on Rogers, is that you? :-)
I do not have DBS.
It looks like from the messages that sometime the stations are not on the air. Could you do me a BIG favor and checks what dtv stations you can get at 8:30pm on Thursday, 10/11? You can change the day/time if you need to. Just let me know so I’ll do my test the same time.

MikeD

Pat,

I'm going to be out tonight so could you check Thursday nignt (10/11) around 8:30pm?

Thanks,
Mike

MikeD
OK, I will update via AVS forum on Thursday night at 8:00 PM with all stations that I see at that time. What STB are you using?

Pat

------------------
HDjunky

MikeD
8:30 PM is a good time to check. I will update you on Thursday (tomorrow) at about 8:00 PM. and let you know which stations are up at that time. How is that?

I know the antenna you are referring to, It's not mine. I live on Ferncroft.

Pat

------------------
HDjunky

I received a response from Jim Shultis of WHDH, stating there are no plans currently for passing on 1080i on 42-1. Also they are operating at reduced power and there are no current plans to increase their power. That is it-short and sweet. WBZ and WCVB are looking better and better.

------------------

I have been watching the Tuesday ABC comedy's on CVB. First night no HD, second night lots of dropouts, third try big audio pops every 5 minutes. Any news when this will get worked out.

Anyone know what's going on with WXFT (Fox 25)?

-j

What is the status of the WBZ tour?

Maybe the tour can be filmmed in 1080I.

Originally posted by jeffw
Anyone know what's going on with WXFT (Fox 25)?

-j

:mad: I haven't been able to get ANY signal on Fox since last Thursday--my 6000 reads 0% signal strength. Oddly, it finds FOX if I rescan.

Regards -- Steve

It appears that PSIP is operational on WHDH-DT. Wish HD was instead.

Appears that 57 maps to only 80-3 on the Dish 6000 when transmitting. ABC still on 20-2.

Tim

HDH-DT now stays on 7-1 so it appears they've fixed the PSIP issue. FXT-DT has been off for about a week (no loss AFAIC). The rest of the channels:

CVB-DT - still on 20-2 and appears OK signal-wise
WBZ-DT - still on 4-1 and appears fine
GBH-DT - supposedly getting a test signal on Thu mornings and Fri nights but I didn't see anything last Fri
MUR-DT - still on 9-1 and appears OK
NHPT-DT - still on 80-3 and still getting breakups every five minutes or so (I'm picking them up from Littleton, MA using a CA-9085 + CM-7787 pre-amp - I've heard of people getting them as far off as Framingham, MA) - I wish they'd go to a different channel mapping (like 11-1) so that my receiver can scan them into the OTA selection rather than the cable selection - a good pre-amp seems to help with this signal and I've seen an improvement when I removed splitters
GBY-DT - haven't been able to pick them up yet - anyone have any luck with this one?

[i]Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit
GBY-DT - haven't been able to pick them up yet - anyone have any luck with this one? [/B]

They're there... very low power (30kw), and the transmitter is located on Mt. Tom. (At 70 miles from Framingham, I really need good atmospheric conditions!) It maps to 58-1 (58-2 is also there but blank). GBY-DT is normally on from 10am to 11 pm. For me the best time to get them is after 9pm and the atmosphere settles down.

I've used the CM-4248 with CM-7775 pre-amp and the CM rotor, but it is very tricky since channel 56 is strong! Check how well you get channel 57 analog...sometimes you may have to go a couple of degrees off if you see the channel 56 interference. (Remember for digital, it isn't so much a strong signal as it is a "clean" signal.)

I'm going to be trying with the CM-4228 8-bay bow-tie, hoping the screen will help.
After that, I'll try the Blake upper-UHF yagi
[great F/B ration and one of the best at handling multipath], but does require precise aiming, both in direction and tilt.

Was Wondering ... Has anyone heard anything about the status of FOX D-TV ? I have seen that noone else has been receiving them either, I just got set up about a week ago and have never been able to receive them. Does anyone know if I will be able to receive them when they do come up? I live in Sutton Ma, about 40 miles west of Boston and I am currently getting about 60% signal for ABC / CBS / and NBC with a RS rooftop antenna. I hope Fox comes back soon, I know they haven't been broadcasting HD, but the digital signal is as big improvement over cable for football on CBS and I was hoping so for FOX as well.

I called the Engineering department at WFXT and left a message. I was suprised to get a call back 5 minutes later!

I spoke with Steve James. He said that they had some transmitter problems on both the analog and digital side. He thinks they're going to be ready to bring the digital transmitter online at low power tomorrow or wednesday. They'll run at low power for a 2-3 weeks then hopfully go to full power.

-jeff

Good news! Thanks for the update Jeff.

Is anyone in the area getting a program guide (via PSIP) on any channels? What receiver do you use?

thanks..

I have the sir-t150 and am getting the program guide for ABC cvb 20-1. But it only works about 25% of the time. Most of the time it says info not available. Guide does not work at all for CBS of NBC.

Hello, I am a newbie (sorry) it's been couple of days that I am trying to get my Panasonic TU-DST51 tune in. It seems that the only station I can get OTA is channel 7 (pretty good). I use Recoton TV2000 antenna which comes with 24dB amplifier. I've been trying to move antenna around both indoors and outdoors, but no luck. Disabled channel mapping (as users in other forums suggested=no improvement) Do I need a different type of antenna. Any suggestions ? If I wanna record off the dish too, do I need 5000 w/modulator or 6000 which has a built one in (my understanding). Please help ! Thank you !

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit
Is anyone in the area getting a program guide (via PSIP) on any channels? ..

Only getting via Sat off the DST-3000 or receiver equiped with APG.

Tim

I have been having problems with my APG the past couple of days. It's not completely updating. I have the Mits SR-HD5. It's only carrying about 24 hrs of programming. I've tried re-booting with no luck.

I have a DST 3000 with a channel master outdoor antena and was wondering if anybody out there is having trouble with channel 4. The other stations are working great but I am consistently loosing 4. I live in East Walpole which by air miles can't be more than 6 miles away.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Originally posted by steverobertson
I have a DST 3000 with a channel master outdoor antena and was wondering if anybody out there is having trouble with channel 4. The other stations are working great but I am consistently loosing 4. I live in East Walpole which by air miles can't be more than 6 miles away.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Channel 4 comes in strong down in Taunton. I am about 30 miles from the tower.

Here is an update I pulled off another website for channel 25.

Status
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the station: the transmitter is off-the-air for upgrades. When it comes back, they say, it will be transmitting HDTV (not SDTV like it was before). In any case, they assured me it is definitely coming back - probably by "the end of the week", which would be October 20th.

Originally posted by rudolpht


Only getting via Sat off the DST-3000 or receiver equiped with APG.

Tim

What is APG? Is anyone getting OTA program guide on a Dish 6000 or is that still broken?

thanks..

no OTA program guide from Dish yet
Fox 25 doing HDTV? YEAH RIGHT!!!! that will be the day.........
I just hope to get their 480p signal back soon.

Originally posted by Soycrema
no OTA program guide from Dish yet
Fox 25 doing HDTV? YEAH RIGHT!!!! that will be the day.........
I just hope to get their 480p signal back soon.

I guess what they meant was that FOX25 would be able to transmitt HDTV after upgrades, but they won't because FOX doesn't provide HD source programming.

Does this inspire the faint possibility of the Superbowl in HD?

I know ... let me dream at least.

On my RCA 38310 with its built in DTC100 I've been getting guide info for WHDH-DT 7.1 recently, but I've never seen anything for any of the other Boston channels.

WBZ will be airing Escape From Alcatraz in high definition at 1 PM on Saturday, November 17. This is not a CBS movie but the first of several movies we will be airing locally in the 1080I high definition format.

***WBZ DTV Hotline - 617-787-7043***
Rings in our master control. Please use only to report obvious on-air problems.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Originally posted by Bob Hess
WBZ will be airing Escape From Alcatraz in high definition at 1 PM on Saturday, November 17. This is not a CBS movie but the first of several movies we will be airing locally in the 1080I high definition format.

***WBZ DTV Hotline - 617-787-7043***
Rings in our master control. Please use only to report obvious on-air problems.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Bob, Any chance of this being broadcast in Dolby 5.1? Does WBZ have the necessary equipment to pass along DD 5.1?

Hello, I can tune in only on channel 7 in Boston. nothing else is coming out of my TU-DST51. I use recoton2000 antenna w/signal amp.

Any suggestions ?

thanx

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit


What is APG?



Advanced Program Guide

Originally posted by Benji


Bob, Any chance of this being broadcast in Dolby 5.1? Does WBZ have the necessary equipment to pass along DD 5.1?

I don't believe this will be 5.1 although we do have the capability.

Bob

Originally posted by steverobertson
Here is an update I pulled off another website for channel 25.

Status
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the station: the transmitter is off-the-air for upgrades. When it comes back, they say, it will be transmitting HDTV (not SDTV like it was before). In any case, they assured me it is definitely coming back - probably by "the end of the week", which would be October 20th.

Upgrade my a$$. I have sent 3 emails that have all gone un-answered in the past month. If they were doing upgrades I'm sure they would let me know.

Same here -- I've sent a couple of emails over the past week and both have gone unanswered :mad: I fail to understand the point of publishing an email address is there is no attempt to answer viewers' messages.

ATTN WFTX: Since your DT transmitter went down I haven't watched 5 minutes of programming on your station.

Originally posted by SteveV
ATTN WFXT: Since your DT transmitter went down I haven't watched 5 minutes of programming on your station.

I figured I would give the analog channel a shot since I wanted to check out the baseball game. That lasted about 3 minutes.

I live in Brookline and over the last 4 or 5 days, have also received intermittent problems with WBZ reception. I usually find small antenna adjustments solve the problem. Normally, I have 100% signal on all network stations.

By the way, I hope FOX gets it together before the world series!!!

I did drive by the fox25 building yestarday on VFW parkaway and they are doing some major contruction over there. May be totally unrelated but thought I dould mention it


FREAK!

Originally posted by JSteinberg
I live in Brookline and over the last 4 or 5 days, have also received intermittent problems with WBZ reception. I usually find small antenna adjustments solve the problem. Normally, I have 100% signal on all network stations.


Everything has been normal at WBZ. Indoor antennas, however, can be a real pain. Anything can affect reception like moving furniture around in the house, wind, leaves on the trees, leaves off of the trees, buildings around you, etc. A roof top antenna or even an attic mount antenna should give you great reception from Brookline. If you must use an indoor antenna, try the Radio Shack indoor double bowtie.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ

***WBZ DTV Hotline - 617-787-7043****
(Call only to report problems. This phone rings in our master control)

Originally posted by JSteinberg
I live in Brookline and over the last 4 or 5 days, have also received intermittent problems with WBZ reception. I usually find small antenna adjustments solve the problem. Normally, I have 100% signal on all network stations.


I live in Tewksbury about 20 miles north and have had no problems with WBZ using the Radio Shack double bow-tie antenna in my attic. My turner in the one builtin the Sony 34xbr2.

PS
Thanks WBZ for all the HDTV. :)

Indoor antennas, however, can be a real pain. Anything can affect reception like moving furniture around in the house, wind, leaves on the trees, leaves off of the trees, buildings around you, etc. The Radio Shack double bowtie works very well from nearby Watertown, picking up all the Boston stations without the need for any adjustments. That said, I do briefly loose WFXT-DT whenever my upstairs neighbors walk up and down the stairs to their apartment.:)

Originally posted by Eric Busch
The Radio Shack double bowtie works very well from nearby Watertown, picking up all the Boston stations without the need for any adjustments. That said, I do briefly loose WFXT-DT whenever my upstairs neighbors walk up and down the stairs to their apartment.:)

Are you actually getting WFXT-DT? I haven't gotten a signal for several weeks and supposedly it was to be back on the air by now, but I'm still getting "0".

Maybe he is getting FOX because he is so close. I live about 40 miles from the transmitter and get a signal or around 5. I wish WFXT would resolve this problem. It's been too long......

--Andy Garabedian

No Fox signal here in Northborough, it has been weeks now.............didn't somebody say FOX would be back IN FULL POWER sometime this week?

Just a reminder for FOX. Originally, they were transmitting a 720p signal. For whatever reason, they switched to 480p quite some time ago.

The difference was dramatic so I am looking forward to them going back to, presumably, 720p. You'll notice the difference immediately.

Here in Framingham (10 miles from the towers) with a big antenna in my attic, I got a signal of around 45 from WFXT last night. It wasn't enough to maintain a steady picture though. :(

Hopefully, they'll be back up to full power soon.

I was getting a signal of only in the 60's for FXT and I have a direct line of sight to the HD Tower.

Whew! Feels good to be back among the HiDef community!!

So, after 2 months of having all my hidef stuff in storage while I bounced between hotels and relatives houses in eastern Massachussetts with my family, we're finally settled into our new house. But I digress....

I finally got my TU-HDS20 back from a coworker who was borrowing it and proceeded to get it hooked up last night. Spent 30 minutes yesterday reading about 15 pages of this thread just to get caught up. Seems like the OTA landscape has changed significantly.

I'm now located in Andover, west Andover actually for those who are familiar with the area, and was quite concerned about what kind of reception I'd get being essentially on the downslope of the Merrimack Valley facing away from the Boston DTV towers. Not only that, but there's a medium power FM tranmitter for 99.1 Mhz located about 1 mile away which was worrying me. Luckily, my house is located near the top of a hill so I think I can pull in a pretty good signal. The good news is I'm getting WCVB-DT and WBZ-DT rock solid with just the RatShack double bowtie facing almost due south out a window, and I can even get in WENH-DT if I rotate it towards the northeast, facing Portsmouth NH. However, WHDH-DT is flaky in/out and with WFXT at this low power I can't get squat. Hopefully they'll be back to full power soon, even 480p widescreen is still better than NTSC 480i stretched anyday!

Bob Hess:

I know its been a while, so here's a few comments on where my OTA channel mapping now stands. I'm currently at Rev 7.4, the only update to the TU-HDS20 that I know of so far. Seems like some of the other boxes are working better or even perfectly when it comes to PSIP in Boston so I'm a bit concerned that there might actually be an issue Panasonic has to address here. But anyway:

WBZ-DT - Maps to 4-1 with PSIP, but programming only appears on 30-1.
WCVB-DT - No map to 5-1, have to tune 20-1 to get programming. No PSIP.
WFXT-DT - Who knows, can't get anything at this low a power!
WHDH-DT - Appears at 7-1 with PSIP info.

I hope I didn't bore anyone to death with this post, I know I took a liberty or two with the content, just needed to get myself caught up...

Off I go to Stark tomorrow to pick up a CM 4-bay bowtie and the remote controlled rotator! Yippeee!

p.s. Just a quick note, I thought ABC HD looked a little "soft" and PBS on ENH looked much sharper! I'll be tuned into CSI tonight to check out CBS, I'm hoping their still as crisp as they used to be.

Originally posted by Doug G


Bob Hess:

I know its been a while, so here's a few comments on where my OTA channel mapping now stands. I'm currently at Rev 7.4, the only update to the TU-HDS20 that I know of so far. Seems like some of the other boxes are working better or even perfectly when it comes to PSIP in Boston so I'm a bit concerned that there might actually be an issue Panasonic has to address here. But anyway:

WBZ-DT - Maps to 4-1 with PSIP, but programming only appears on 30-1.

Doug,

I just bought one of those receivers so we'll see what is going on. Thanks for the signal report.

- Bob

Hi Guys,

At the risk of having lightning strike me, I am going to again raise the subject of 4:3 vs 14:9 vs 16:9 images for our upconverted progamming.

As the old timers know, WBZ has long been a proponent of retaining the 4:3 aspect ratio for our upconverted programming. As you also know, we can only do it in a 16:9 frame. I continue to get complaints about the possibility of burn-in on projection sets. So.....for a few days, I have switched our upconverted programming to 14:9 to see what the reaction is from our newer forum members who were not part of the original debate. We can also try 16:9 if there is any interest (in my opinion, this is big-time ugly!).

Have at it......

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Does anyone know which shows Bob is referring to? Will this be for all WBZ programming which is not HD from CBS? Which shows are the upconverts?

Sorry, but I'm still pretty green with my new HDTV and I tend to only watch the HD stuff OTA and go upstairs to watch non HD on cable with old 27 incher.

Originally posted by Bob Hess

At the risk of having lightning strike me, I am going to again raise the subject of 4:3 vs 14:9 vs 16:9 images for our upconverted progamming.

Well, I'll go on record and say I refuse to watch anything in the 14:9 format. It just plain looks aweful. If it is presented in that format, I'll switch over to the analog signal or the locals on dish.

If you're concered about burn in, I suggest one of:

1) Change the black sides to gray
2) Change the sides to logos much like you do for various sports. Have different logos for various programs so the logos don't get burned in.
3) Change to 480p broadcast for them so the user can do what they want.

That's my vote.

I am for keeping the way it was I have RPTV and the way the shows were comming in I had no concerns about burn in. My Toshiba TV allows me to switch the modes if need be to fill in the screen. I think that all of us want the best pq available and absoulutley don't want 14.9

Bob - I for one would like to see the OAR retained for upconverted programming, at least for now. Truth be told I only really have the hidef receiver on when I know there's some HD content on I want to watch, but I will watch the occassional upconverted program (like when my wife forces me to watch "Survivor!" before CSI on Thursday nights.)

IMO the whole stretch thing just plain stinks. The only kind of stretching I can even tolerate is the non-linear ("natural wide" as my Elite 510 calls it) where the middle 60% of the screen retains OAR and the remaining 20% of each side is gradually stretched to fill the screen with increasing scale. It does take some getting used to, and swapping between OAR and this format will quickly make anyone realize its not perfect, but it is watchable and avoids the "burn-in" issue. Matter of fact, this is how I watch all my analog source 4:3 programming (mostly cable) to avoid burn in. Others may disagree, but I think this is the only way to go if you want to do any kind of stretch. Other than that I'd really just prefer 4:3 with side bars. Unless someone's watching 80% of their content like this than I think the need to go to grey sidebars isn't really warranted, as they are a bit more distracting than black. (My TU-HDS20 uses grey bars when set to display 4:3 material on a 16:9, this is partially the reason I went with the "natural wide" mode.)

Also, I was partially incorrect on my previous post about 'BZ-DT. Although it does map to 4-1 and identify the station call letters properly, there's no actual programming info. So maybe the PSIP is only partially working. Glad to see you got one of these, hopefully it means things may get better for me soon!

Bob Hess: I've had my Mits 65" since last December and continually watch WBZ and WCVB digital (w/black bars) and when I am watching other non-HD stations I use the normal format (4:3 w/gray bars). I have no evidence of burn-in on what is considered one of the more notorious 'burn-in' models. I watch as much HD as I can, so the breakdown is roughly 50/50 between sidebars (black/gray) and HD. My vote is to leave WBZ as is. Thanks Bob!

The problem with 14:9 is that it not only distorts the OAR, it doesn't really fix the burn-in issue. There are still, albeit smaller, black bars on the sides. It's the worst of all potential "solutions".

The only way to "solve" the burn-in issue AND keep the OAR is to either:

a) broadcast 4:3 content inserted into a 16x9 frame w/ gray sidebars, like most RPTV's, set-top boxes, and video processors support.

OR

b) broadcast 4:3 content in 480i and put the control in the hands of the viewers. (480p doesn't work because many TVs incorrectly assume that 480p is 16:9 and lock into full mode).

I almost never watch 4:3 content via WBZ-DT. I switch to my cable feed and watch it analog so I can have gray bars (and my TiVo).

/Matt

Bob:

I am so used to adjusting the aspect ratio every time I go to watch something now days, I have no opinion to offer.

Originally posted by mkingman
The problem with 14:9 is that it not only distorts the OAR, it doesn't really fix the burn-in issue. There are still, albeit smaller, black bars on the sides. It's the worst of all potential "solutions".

The only way to "solve" the burn-in issue AND keep the OAR is to either:

a) broadcast 4:3 content inserted into a 16x9 frame w/ gray sidebars, like most RPTV's, set-top boxes, and video processors support.

OR

b) broadcast 4:3 content in 480i and put the control in the hands of the viewers. (480p doesn't work because many TVs incorrectly assume that 480p is 16:9 and lock into full mode).

I almost never watch 4:3 content via WBZ-DT. I switch to my cable feed and watch it analog so I can have gray bars (and my TiVo).

/Matt

There is a third way: broadcast your local programming in 1080i HD! Then there is no problem. In all seriousness, I've viewed the new 'improved' WBZ-DT and still vote for 4:3 w/sidebars.

Hello ! Can anybody suggest GOOD dish/OTA antenna installer/dealer in BOSTON ?

Thank you !

Originally posted by atmosfera
Hello ! Can anybody suggest GOOD dish/OTA antenna installer/dealer in BOSTON ?

Thank you !

Radio Shack

Originally posted by Bob Hess
At the risk of having lightning strike ....

Bob,

They are spinning up the lightning machine at the Museum of Science....

I went away to Florida for a few days and came back to Bizzaro world.

Hope we don't mess with success.

Tim

Bob,

Re: broadcast AR of 4:3 material

Please please please.... Keep 4:3 as 4:3. Like has already been said, these in-between stetch modes are just pointless.

Anyone who is really concerned can change black fillers to grey in the menu of their receiver. My Dish 6000 does this, I believe the RCA does also.

My vote goes to 4:3 in 16:9 mode, like NBC does here in Boston.
By the way Bob, I sent you a private message about CBS, did you get it?
Thanks

I just tested my reception of Fox and received a signal of 25-47. Very eratic. Not consistent enough to maintain a picture.

They're not quite there yet.

Bob,

PLEASE no 14:9! I vote for OAR--if I want to stretch the image I can do it myself.

Thanks -- Steve

Originally posted by JSteinberg
I just tested my reception of Fox and received a signal of 25-47. Very eratic. Not consistent enough to maintain a picture.

They're not quite there yet.

Same thing here. I was hoping to watch Dark Angel in 720P(????) last night but my 6000 refused to lock in the signal. Like you, my signal was bouncing all over the place.

What would be really COOL is if FOX could give us an update regarding what the hell is going on. And yes, I'm still waiting for a reply to the emails I sent them nearly 3 weeks ago :mad:

-- Steve

Bob,

I vote for 4:3 in a 16:9 frame with gray bars or logos on the side. I am very concerned about burn-in on my Toshiba 56H80 projection TV, however, I can't stand watching the distorted images.

This is all about the best quality picture.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
WBZ has long been a proponent of retaining the 4:3 aspect ratio for our upconverted programming. As you also know, we can only do it in a 16:9 frame.
Bob,

It would be nice to send 4:3 in a 4:3 frame but it looks like you can only send a 16:9 frame.

In this case I prefer 14:9 in the 19:9 frame. I have a 16:9 direct view TV. 4:3 just looks so ugly after 19:9. The 14:9 is a good compromise with little clipping on top/bottom. The black border looks nice on my Sony 34xbr2 but if people are concern about burn-in, maybe you should try gray border so people can judge what it look like.

Thanks for all the hdtv. :-)

Originally posted by Mike Emery

Anyone who is really concerned can change black fillers to grey in the menu of their receiver. My Dish 6000 does this, I believe the RCA does also.

My receiver can not change the black border. It can not change the view size when it is sent in a 16:9 frame.

I like the 14:9 frame because it is a good compromise. The 4:3 aspect ratio is retain and their is little clipping of the top/bottom.

Maybe wbz can try sending gray borders with with the 14:9.

MikeD

I have had my RPTV HDTV for about a month now and while I believe the "Burn in" issue is a bit overstated (If you properly calibrate your set and avoid 4:3 images 100% of the time, there should be no concern about burn in), I nonetheless prefer the 16:9 stretch mode that WHDH employs. I know its not perfect but I just can't get used to seeing black or gray side bars. 14:9 looks terrible.

Originally posted by SteveV

Same thing here. I was hoping to watch Dark Angel in 720P(????) last night but my 6000 refused to lock in the signal. Like you, my signal was bouncing all over the place.


I'm watching WFXT right now in Westford, and it's pretty stable at 57-60% signal strength. IIRC, I was getting about 70-75% a few weeks ago.

Dish 6000, attic-mounted antenna (previous owners left it!), WBZ is at about 85-90% right now.

BTW, is there any way to ask the Dish 6000 what format the current signal is in? I don't have an HD display yet, just using the svideo out (and even that is terrific!)...

Bob:

I was one of the few that wanted 14:9 during round one but later switched to agreeing on 4:3.

For side bars, can you place something similar to what CBS does during half time of college HD football games? I suppose huge CBS letters would be distracting to most but placing something, even a gray background, would help with the burn in issue.

It does seem to be kind of a waste to transmit black.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Hi Guys,

At the risk of having lightning strike me, I am going to again raise the subject of 4:3 vs 14:9 vs 16:9 images for our upconverted progamming.


Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Bob! ! !
Please go back to 4:3. I always watch 4.1 when watching CBS even if it is not HD because the picture quality is much better than my satelite or antenna feed of analog 4. I don't worry about burn in on my Elite510 because I watch enough full screen to offset it. Please go back to 4:3 for all non-HD programing! The 14:9 is awful in my opion.

Thank you,
Jay

Originally posted by SteveV


Same thing here. I was hoping to watch Dark Angel in 720P(????) last night but my 6000 refused to lock in the signal. Like you, my signal was bouncing all over the place.

-- Steve

Dark Angel was broadcast in 4:3 mode last night as was Pasadena after it. Fox must not be done with their upgrade or have changed their policy because usually these would be in 480P widescreen. I am getting a steady signal here in Framingham.

Jay

Success! With a little movement of my indoor antenna, I was able to watch the World Series last night with a strong signal. Signal range with my new antenna position was 75-87. Strong enough with my Toshiba receiver to have an uninterrupted picture.

Bob,
I too much prefer broadcasts be done in their OAR. Please go back to 4:3.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Hi Guys,

At the risk of having lightning strike me, I am going to again raise the subject of 4:3 vs 14:9 vs 16:9 images for our upconverted progamming.

Have at it......

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Bob, I think the best way to address the burn in problem is to use gray bars. I prefer the 4:3 image. I can always use either my receiver or TV to size the image the way I want (although you do a better job of it) but I can't get back to the original.

thanks.

Bob:

Here in Pawtucket, I get Providence's CBS affiliate perfectly from the same antenna I have in my attic for the Boston digitals. Today I watched the Jets (and am now watching the Pats)on that station instead of WBZ. Until you go back to OAR, I will watch all the 4:3 stuff on Channel 12 in Providence.

SMK

O.K. Bob no lightning but please dump this nasty format now. Why take a step backwards...? Please remember you were instrumental in getting WCVB to dump the aweful 14:9 format they started with. I have had my Mit's RPTV for near two years now and the black bars with the 4:3 in a 16:9 frame made me nervous at first but I can say that so far there is NO screen burn at all. I find that normal viewing provides enough balance of full screen, black bars, gray bars etc. so that screen burn is not a problem.

I said many times that WBZ should consider gray bars OR ever changing colored logo bars to fill the space. I have never received a response to these repeated suggestions.

OAR is the only way to go and is all I will watch .... period
:)

I'm new to this. What is OAR? It is not in the FAQ.

OAR = Original Aspect Ratio

Anyone know when FOX is going to be at the same power level before their problems occurred? It appears they have increased power since my signal strength went from 5 last week to 15 this week.

---Andy Garabedian

Bob, I know this is a redundant reply, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE go back to 4:3. On this afternoon's NFL game, the out-of-town scores at the top corner of the screen were wiped out because of the 14:9 stretch. This is unacceptable, not to mention the decreased resolution. As has been stated before, the black bars are not a problem if you are watching a combination of black bars, gray bars and HD. WBZ has been a shining light in digital TV in the Boston area, please keep it like that.

Bob,

I have noticed that people respond to your survey in several ways. Some make threats like they will not watch wbz unless you do so-and-so. Others simply state what they like. Most give a reason for their preference. I wish all would give reasons.

Some people state that they can zoom a 4:3 format to what they want. You send the 4:3 format in a 16:9 frame. This must be for a technical reason that I do not understand. I an unable to zoom a 16:9 frame on my system.

Others state that they don’t like the distortion of the 14:9 format. I don’t understand this statement. The image is not distorted like I’ve seen on wmur. The height/with ratio of the image zoom remains the same. The 14:9 format only clips a little from the top and bottom of the image. I was able to see the text at the top and bottom of the screen during the games this weekend. I did a side by side comparison of your 4:3 analog and 14:9 digital broadcast and prefer the 14:9 image. To me, no significant information is lost by the minor clipping of the top and bottom.

I strongly would like wbz to continue to broadcast 4:3 images in 14:9 format. I say this because to me, the 14:9 image looks a lot better on a wide screen direct view tv then a 4:3 image or a 4:3 image zoomed up to 16:9. I feel so strongly about this that I wish my system had the ability to do variable zoom on any images size in any frame size.

Thanks for all the hdtv,
MikeD

By my count, I have 15 in favor of retaining 4:3 in a 16:9 frame; one in favor of 14:9; one in favor of 16:9 and two who don't care.

We will switch back to 4:3, which is my personal choice.

Don't be surprised if we do this experiment again in a year or two as more TV's and more "average viewers" join the DTV market.

Bob

MikeD,

As you may have noticed you are alone on this one. Well maybe my daughter and you are alone in this one, she likes 14:9 also.

When I first got my "wide screen" HD set two years ago I too always wanted the screen to be filled totally on all sides. Even playing DVD's that were anamorphically enhanced (2.35:1) gave me small black bars top and bottom so I would use the flexible zoom feature of WinDVD to stretch the image north and south to fill the screen.

It did not take me long however to HATE all of these aspect ratio manipulations and settle on OAR as the ONLY way to go. When I did the zoom thing with DVD's I ended up with tall people and very distorted backgrounds. 14:9 is worse yet because it not only does the stretch horizontally but to compensate for the FAT (wide) look it also does some vertical stretch as well. It's more like the dumb ZOOM feature on my Mit's RPTV......! You end up with a very distorted, weird looking image that is not as the original producer intended. Plus you loose about 15% of the image top and bottom. And lastly, if the ONLY reason to use this weird format is to avoid screen burn 14:9 will not do it as there are still small black bars left and right, on my set they are much smaller than 4:3 in a 16:9 frame but they are still there.

I'm with the others that say if WBZ keeps the 14:9 format I will not watch WBZ-DT at all until a true HD 16:9 image is broadcast. I'm fortunate to get my locals off DirecTV and the image of WBZ, although highly compressed and often shows signs of artifacts, it's available in real 4:3 and to me I would rather give up just a tad in image quality to see a image that is not stretched and distorted.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong.....!

15 to 1, I can’t argue with that. :)

I still don’t understand what people are saying about distortion in the 14:9. Both width and height are stretched the same percentage as far as I can tell so the image is not fat or tall. You do get clipping from the top and bottom but I feel this is little lost of information. I like the 14:9 for it looks, not for anything to do with burn in. I also have a 34 inch direct view wide screen so a 4:3 looks like a 27 inch on my TV.

Maybe I will change my vote next time, maybe I won’t. :)

Mike, you're correct... 14:9 is normally 4:3 stretched horizontally and the way that WBZ-DT has been doing it is to maintain the aspect ratio but clip the top and bottom instead. Regardless, the original image is modified resulting in a distortion or loss of data and it's this that many of us have a problem with.

It was stated that the original intent for switching to 14:9 was to solve burn-in issues, but it doesn't fix the problem because there are still black bars on the sides.... so why do it at all.

Again, the best solution is for stations to broadcast 4:3 content as 480i and let the viewer decide what to do with it. I know there is some technical issue that does not allow WBZ-DT to do this.

Bob, is this a limitation of the encoder/transmitter that you are using? Is it something that could be changed in the future? Thanks.

/Matt

mkingman, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't 480i inferior in pq to 480p?, thus viewers modifying the 480i signal would produce even more prounced distortions....if this is true, I would not be in favor of 480i just so some people could play with the image

Originally posted by Bob Hess
By my count, I have 15 in favor of retaining 4:3 in a 16:9 frame; one in favor of 14:9; one in favor of 16:9 and two who don't care.

We will switch back to 4:3, which is my personal choice.

Don't be surprised if we do this experiment again in a year or two as more TV's and more "average viewers" join the DTV market.

Bob

Bob, how about the suggestion to do gray bars? Is this technically feasible? My preference is to do gray bars and to move the CBS bug so that it falls outside the 4x3 image. Maybe the bug can walk around the gray bars very slowly to avoid burn in (I'm full of great ideas this morning :)

MikeD,

One more thing to add to Matt's perfect description of image distortion. Think of an electronic picture image on your computer screen that has an original pixel size of say 800x600. If you enlarge the image you will introduce distortion and lower the overall image quality. Worse yet if you enlarge the image and choose not to keep the aspect ratio you end up with a distorted image that also is out of normal proportion as well. It's possible on a smaller direct view set such as yours that some of these issues are not as noticeable as they are on 55" and larger sets as many of us own.

Anyway, thanks Bob for going back......!

OAR rules:D

Originally posted by eags
mkingman, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't 480i inferior in pq to 480p?, thus viewers modifying the 480i signal would produce even more prounced distortions....if this is true, I would not be in favor of 480i just so some people could play with the image

When you're talking about source that was originally shot on NTSC video, which is effectively 480i, there would be little improvement over what your digital TV already shows you. Since your digital TV already displays 480i as 480p, the only difference in PQ would be the quality of the line-doubler in your TV vs. the one at the station.

The big problem with 480p is that many digital TVs incorrectly assume that all 480p is 16:9 and therefore lock into full mode which prevents the viewer from controlling the aspect ratio... so you end up with 4:3 stretched to 16:9 which is unwatchable.

/Matt

thanks matt, now your idea makes sense to me

Bob, You are doing the right thing by going back to 4:3. The problem with 14:9 isn't distortion, it's loss of part of the picture and decreased resolution. And we all spent big-time $$$'s on our sets to have that superior resolution. Hopefully, in a couple of years when more folks have HDTVs, you won't have to make a decision like this because most of the programming will be in 16:9 HD. For you folks that want to control the aspect ratio of your picture, tune in to WHDH. They broadcast only in 480i.

While demonstrating a widescreen TV today at work I turned to 4.1 to show the customer your signal and was very pleased to see you back at 4:3 aspect. I had the same problem as a previous poster with the out of town scores on the game yesterday. I had to keep switching to analog 4 to see how "our Doug" was doing in San Diego.

More importantly though, I thought that there was a definite degradation of the signal.

I thank you for being so responsive. I wonder if CBS realizes that they have picked up many viewers such as myself who rarely watched CBS before they went HD with so many of their programs. Since I went HD last January I have watched many shows on CBS that I never watched before and have become a regular viewer of many. The Guardian is a perfect example. By the description of the program it did not appear to be of interest to me. Since it was in HD however, I checked it out and it is now on my list of shows to watch each week.

This is a very long winded way of saying THANK YOU for being our advocate.
Jay

Thanks everyone for their feedback on my 14:9 vote. I understood that people didn’t like the clipping of the top/bottom. It took me A LONG TIME to understand that resolution is also being thrown away with the clipping. I didn’t notice that on my smaller 34 inch screen so I guess it is a classic case of the little guy against the big guys. :)

Anyway,
Thank you Bob for allowing me to cast my lone vote,
Thank you, wbz, and cbs for all the hdtv. You put whdh to shame.

QUESTION:
I noticed both wbz and wcvb 4:3 images are wider and contains more information then their corresponding analog singles and whdh single. Why is that?

MikeD

I wrote to Fox 25 regarding their DTV channel (no signal for the past month) and here's the response I got from them today:

Thank you for your email.

WFXT has been performing maintenance on our DTV equipment. We hope to have our
DTV transmission back to normal in approximately 2 weeks.

We apologize for the inconvenience.

FOX25 Community Connection

FOX25CONNECT@fox.com

I received the same message today. Given that it took them neary 3 weeks to respond; which inconvenience are they apologizing for? Having been down for a month or taking close to 3 weeks to respond? :mad:

Hmmm, must be one long "maintenance" procedure.

-- Steve

My comments may be after the fact, but here I go anyways...

WBZ:
I hated the recent 14:9 transmissions. Top and bottom cut off and the picture is grainy. Can address the first concern by training all camera operators to give their subject more headrooms, but the easier solution is to go back to 4:3/sidebars. How come the sidebars can't be made grey instead of black? It seems like the simple way to address burn-in concerns.
I like all effort CBS is putting into making this work.

WFXT:
An added bonus is that the digital reception out here in the boonies is so much better than the analog signals. Too bad
Fox doesn't have ch. 31 back up -- would have been nice to
watch the World Series without the co-channel interference
from nearby WUNI.

Originally posted by Benji
For you folks that want to control the aspect ratio of your picture, tune in to WHDH.

or use a Dish 6000 which allows aspect control on HD transmissions. I have both DirecTV & Dish STBs with OTA and can say I never use the ability to change aspect on an HD single as OAR is the only way to go, whether sidebars on 4:3 or top and bottom bars on "scope" movies. Filling more of the screen but getting less of the content just doesn't make sense.

Tim