WGBH/WGBX have made the PID changes described earlier. WBZ/WSBK have yet to make the change.

As far as other stations go, here is my survey (as of this evening):

Using PIDs above 0030 (ok):

2 WGBH
5 WCVB
9 WMUR
44 WGBX
66 WUTF

Still using PIDS below 0030 (naughty):

4 WBZ 0011
7 WHDH 0021
25 WFXT 0021
38 WSBK 0021
50 WNDS 0011 (35.1, no PSIP)

_Paul

Originally posted by Mr.H
WGBH/WGBX have made the PID changes described earlier. WBZ/WSBK have yet to make the change.

_Paul
We were forced to postpone the change for WBZ/WSBK. The new plan is to do it around 8am Monday morning, January 10th.

Originally posted by davatar
...I can't get a picture on WLVI at all!! It reads the channel name WLVI-DT subchannels 1 & 2, but I get black and no audio.. Removing the amp and rotating the antenna do nothing either. Is it the station? I mean I am picking up their call letters!

What gives?

I have the same situation way out here in the boonies, fairly strong/consistent signal from WLVI on both channels, but no A/V. May be the missing-packet problem reported by pdicamillo, but I have no way to confirm this. I thought it was maybe the same issue I had with 5-1 and 5-2, but a rescan of the channels didn't fix it, so I guess it's another issue altogether.

Anybody got a contact there in engineering? Or, is anybody out there actually seeing A/V on WLVI tonight?

As I said earlier, this reminds me more and more of the "excitement" involved in receiving NTSC OTA broadcasts back in the 1950s. You just never know what you're going to get and when you're going to get it... ;)

-PhiloT

Originally posted by PhiloT
I have the same situation way out here in the boonies, fairly strong/consistent signal from WLVI on both channels, but no A/V. May be the missing-packet problem reported by pdicamillo, but I have no way to confirm this. I thought it was maybe the same issue I had with 5-1 and 5-2, but a rescan of the channels didn't fix it, so I guess it's another issue altogether.

Anybody got a contact there in engineering? Or, is anybody out there actually seeing A/V on WLVI tonight?

As I said earlier, this reminds me more and more of the "excitement" involved in receiving NTSC OTA broadcasts back in the 1950s. You just never know what you're going to get and when you're going to get it... ;)

-PhiloT

WLVI hasn't been working for a couple of days now - same thing as everyone else, getting a strong signal but no picture or sound.

Does anyone have the number for the control room at WCVB 5-1? They haven't flipped over to HD yet for the Rams/Seahawks game.

Where is the ABC HD for the game?

OMFG, this pisses me off to no end!!!!! How friggin hard is it to switch over??? What do they have to do, climb a pole every time?

AHHHHHHHH!!!!

Anyone have a number for WCVB ? The national feed is up, people in other cities are receiving it.

Got HD no 5.1

YUP, yook long enough :)

6-1 has a much shrper picture, and 5.1.....Just noticed this.

Where is 6-1 out of?

Providence maybe?

Providence I think. 5-1 is certainly a bit soft and there's lots of compression artifacts. Not nearly as good as MNF usually is...

-Steve

Originally posted by Steve O
Does anyone have the number for the control room at WCVB 5-1? They haven't flipped over to HD yet for the Rams/Seahawks game.

Has anyone found the number so w

Originally posted by Steve O
Does anyone have the number for the control room at WCVB 5-1? They haven't flipped over to HD yet for the Rams/Seahawks game.

Has anyone found the number so we can remind them to hit the 5.1 switch as well?

Originally posted by greenelucky
Got HD no 5.1

Providence (6-1) has 5.1

That doesn't help me in Canton.

Originally posted by greenelucky
That doesn't help me in Canton.

Well since you don't have your location listed I had no way of knowing ;)

I'm in Southborough and my Sharp LC-32GD4U says that WLVI-DT's channel strength (on channel 41) is about 90 (out of 100).

But the tuner won't put LVI into memory on a scan and I can't tune it directly.

Anyone else having problems?

WLVI has been working just fine for me ..located out in Oxford.

PATS-SOX- What kind of setup are you using? Do you get both 56-1 and 56-2?

Still no WLVI here, seems like an ongoing problem with a few folks. Does anybody have a contact there to find out what might be confounding a number of boxes?

-PhiloT

Anyone find out why we cant get WCVB 5-1 or 5-2? I'm not having a signal problem, there's just nothing there. Rather aggrivating watching fotball in SD

Cin0s3

Re-scan for your locals. There has been a change in the stream that some receivers cannot deal with on the fly.

D

Oh thank god! Thank you D_Doherty getting it now

I haven't noticed any problem with 56-1 or 56-2 (well on 56-2 there hasn't been any audio)

Originally posted by bcushman
I haven't noticed any problem with 56-1 or 56-2 (well on 56-2 there hasn't been any audio)

Since some people are getting 56 without problems, I decided to let my tuner (accessDTV tuner card) sit on the channel for a while and see what happens. Low and behold, after about 15 seconds or so, it comes in fine - on all of my systems (I have 4 PC's running with accessDTV cards). They've obviously changed something on their end recently because it used to come in instantly, but they are definitely alive.

Guess it must be some incompatibility between my El Cheapo STB and the WLVI bitstream. I did a rescan again tonight for the umpteenth time, but still no luck. Left it on 56-1 for a full 10 minutes just now, and still no signal.

New firmware for this box is on its way from the company, so maybe whatever unique factor causing it to not decode 56 will be suddenly tolerated with the upgrade. But it is very odd that everything else comes in fine on this box (including WSBK tonight, miracle of miracles!), but no A/V for me on 56 despite an excellent signal strength. I'm even getting WJAR out of Providence, which amounts to DX at this location.

Thanks for all the reports from far and wide. This board does a great service to the "early adopter" community.

As for me, I'm giving up for the night and going to go read a book!

-PhiloT

Originally posted by PhiloT
Guess it must be some incompatibility between my El Cheapo STB and the WLVI bitstream. I did a rescan again tonight for the umpteenth time, but still no luck. Left it on 56-1 for a full 10 minutes just now, and still no signal.

New firmware for this box is on its way from the company, so maybe whatever unique factor causing it to not decode 56 will be suddenly tolerated with the upgrade. But it is very odd that everything else comes in fine on this box (including WSBK tonight, miracle of miracles!), but no A/V for me on 56 despite an excellent signal strength. I'm even getting WJAR out of Providence, which amounts to DX at this location.

Thanks for all the reports from far and wide. This board does a great service to the "early adopter" community.

As for me, I'm giving up for the night and going to go read a book!

-PhiloT

I don't consider myself an "early adopter." This is a brand-new Sharp LC-32GD4U with an integrated ATSC tuner that once received 56.1. If a broadcaster is able to "break" a tuner like this, then ATSC is dead as a consumer technology.

Consider that the Sharp's ATSC tuner does not allow me to manually enter a station; it must scan it into memory. How would I ever receive this station in such a case.

I realize there can be unfortunate interpretations of standards that lead to incompatibilities. Still, for DTV to succeed it must be like Ethernet is today: well-understood, well-established and rock-soldily compatible.

PhiloT.

I use an LG4200 stb/DB8-45'up outside. I've got the antenna aiming such facing between Boston & Providence. It picks up all the stations.

For those that do not get the audio on WLVI 56-2, try changing your audio setting from stereo to the SAP setting. I am now able to get both substation audio tracks. For whatever reason, they are both the same.

For those that are not getting 5.1 etc. Appreciate the fact that sometimes storms/weather does weird things to some signals. Also the antenna placement or a slight tweek in position can help bring the stations right back.

I would bet it's this kind of adjustment and not the box. Though rescanning for the PSP is something to try.

Originally posted by PATS-SOX fan

...For those that are not getting 5.1 etc. Appreciate the fact that sometimes storms/weather does weird things to some signals. Also the antenna placement or a slight tweek in position can help bring the stations right back.

I would bet it's this kind of adjustment and not the box. Though rescanning for the PSP is something to try.

Well, I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that the 56.1 & 56.2 RF carrier signal is rock-solid at 90%+, and the weather has gone from complete snow/blizzard condition to perfectly clear with no change in signal strength. Given this, it seems unlikely that it's a question of antenna adjustments (which I have tried, BTW), and more likely that it's an incompatible data stream. Looks like your LG box is more forgiving (or intelligent) than some.

Yobyot has a good point comparing ATSC with Ethernet, and the transmission should be compatible with tuners that say they're compatible, period. But, Ethernet has been around a lot longer than ATSC, and the ATSC data stream is considerably more complex. Also, broadcasters have basically been forced into the ATSC standard at regulatory gunpoint, which I think has adversely affected the rate at which they have tackled the learning curve on the technology.

-PhiloT

PhiloT...did you try manually reenter the station.
Could be multipath...have you tried an antennuator?

Unfortunately, this box does not allow for manual entry, all you can do is rescan. If it's there, it's there, if it's not, it's not. It *scans* 56 OK, complete with station ID, but it just won't decode it. Could be multipath, but moving the antenna should affect that. I can move the antenna (and attenuate the line, which I have also tried) such that it loses the RF signal, and gets it back again, but no matter what I do there is no A/V. There is a certain amount of voodoo physics that comes into play at these frequencies, so I wouldn't rule anything out, but I am still betting on it being a data issue vs. an RF issue. I'll check it again in a few days. In the meantime, plenty to watch on the other channels...

-PhiloT

Right now I am getting video but no audio on 56-2, and on 56-1 I have both video and audio but they are not synchronized.

Over on 25-1, I am seeing less video freezes during the Packers-Vikings game, but when they go to the announcers on screen or to commercials, it is clear that the audio is not synced with the video. Bummer, I was going to watch the premier of 24 tonight. I sure hope that WFXT solves this issue before the Superbowl.

SIR-T451 receiver in Acton, MA

Originally posted by PATS-SOX fan
PhiloT...did you try manually reenter the station.
Could be multipath...have you tried an antennuator?

The problem that some of us are experiencing with WLVI-DT is not related to multipath or a need to re-aim our antennas. Up until several days ago, I (and others who are reporting problems) was able to tune to 41.1 (aka 56.1) and pretty much instantly get audio and video. For the past few days, it takes a while (~15 seconds in my case) for the audio and video to come on, despite a very strong signal. WLVI has clearly done something to alter their signal and the rest of us haven't lost our minds or forgotten how to use our tuners. I had been having similar trouble with WGBH-DT for a quite a while, but they fixed whatever the problem was a few months ago and WGBH-DT tunes in just fine lately.

56.2? huh? i've never received that before.
so i'm doing "DTV auto add" on my TV now...
nope, still no 56.2 . (sony 34xbr2).

also i interrupted my zenith hdpvr doing
its recording of 'cold case' ...
so i could rescan and see if it found 56.2 ...

the envelope please... again no 56.2 .

the "guide" function on my tv sucks, but it's much better on the
zenith hdpvr. neither one shows 56.2, just 56.1 .

what's up - please clue me re what is supposed to be on 56.2

Not sure what you were seeing. I watched most of the second half of the game and sam no freezes or audio sync problems. Switches into anbd out of the local breaks on the splicer were fine. I know others are seeing it but I didn't see it here today. I am using a Sony HD300 with an old RS antenna mounted in the attic. I can see the towers from my roof so I get a very good signal.

By the way we will be doing our pid change sometime this week. I will post when it will happen.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Originally posted by gsr
The problem that some of us are experiencing with WLVI-DT is not related to multipath or a need to re-aim our antennas. Up until several days ago, I (and others who are reporting problems) was able to tune to 41.1 (aka 56.1) and pretty much instantly get audio and video. For the past few days, it takes a while (~15 seconds in my case) for the audio and video to come on, despite a very strong signal. WLVI has clearly done something to alter their signal and the rest of us haven't lost our minds or forgotten how to use our tuners. I had been having similar trouble with WGBH-DT for a quite a while, but they fixed whatever the problem was a few months ago and WGBH-DT tunes in just fine lately.

I'm glad to hear that others see the same thing as I am experiencing. But what concerns me is that whatever WLVI did (and whatever WGBH did before) simply shouldn't be allowed under the standards.

It's a lousy digital standard that can make a tuner stop decoding a signal it previously could decode. And it's an even worse standard that requires tuner engineers to account for needing to "sit on" a frequency for some period. My Sharp's tuner isn't designed to do this, and there's no UI for the user to force it to do so.

What blows me away as a new OTA viewer is how amazingly immature ATSC is and how badly it appears to be implemented both from the broadcasters and the tuner engineers.

We are never gonna make the transition at this pace, no matter what the FCC dictates. Am I being too cynical to suggest that's just fine with the OTA broadcasters? If they think they are better off holding onto the additional frequencies, they'd better think again. The net, new devices and unlimited bandwidth make OTA less and less relevant.

As many stations rush to implement Program Information Guide information before the Feb. 1, 2005 deadline, I am sure that we are going to see a lot of glitches in the implementation of new PSIP information. Many of the older generation tuners choke when presented with the new information, and often the best way to re-establish the signal is to manually enter the digital channel number into the tuner, rather than trying to use the re-mapped analog channel number. Try 41.1 or 41.2 for channel 56 instead of 56.1 and see what happens.

Anyone have any signal strenght problems with WBZD Channel 31. ABC, PBS, WLVI, WFXT are all fine. WBZ has never acted up on me. Also, what can ice on an antenna do to reception?

We completed our change of PID numbers at WBZ-DT and WSBK-DT this morning. (The new numbers are -- PMT: 30, Video: 31, Audio: 34, all hexadecimal, for those who care.)

I'd appreciate a report if you have any trouble at all with the signal, even if it is just a need to rescan. Let me know your set-top box or integrated TV model number, so I can keep track of the troublesome ones.

Thanks...

Originally posted by blackngold19
Anyone have any signal strenght problems with WBZD Channel 31. ABC, PBS, WLVI, WFXT are all fine. WBZ has never acted up on me. Also, what can ice on an antenna do to reception?
WBZ's transmitter hasn't had any problems for quite a while.

Ice on a receive antenna can do very bad things, as it worsens the VSWR of the antenna. High VSWR can mimic the effects of multipath, which is deadly to DTV reception. The effect can be localized to a particular channel or channels, so your experience isn't unexpected.

Bob,

My signal strength for WBZ has been a solid 85-90% for the past few months. As of yesterday it was bouncing in the 50 range and now it is bouncing from 75 to 66 %. All the other channels coming off the same tower, ABC, PBS, are a solid 87-90%. I am using a DISH HD811 receiver.

I took the antenna into the house and melted the ice off of it. If your end is Ok, then it must be my end.

Originally posted by cgorra
....Try 41.1 or 41.2 for channel 56 instead of 56.1 and see what happens.

I tried that several times, with no luck. As a new user it was the first time I realized that "56" was "41."

Back to my rant: why should a user with a integrated ATSC tuner in a brand-new Sharp LCD need to know how channels are mapped? Why should I have to enter the real channel when the system is designed to hide that from me?

This is all too far from solid for it to be a successful consumer electronics technology.

(I left a voicemail for the chief engineer at WLVI; I hope they react as some of the others here who are responsible for their stations. I am amazed at the direct level of communication among these engineers and the Internet community.)

I manual added the 56.2 channel the it is working but the same old frezze and and drops every 20 second like 56.1 :(

HDTV Setup
*****************
Sony 34''-KV34HS420

MCE2005
3.0 ghz P4
Abit Max3
1gb ddr-533
Maxtor 2x300gb
ATI X800XTPE
ATI E-HOME w/FM
ATI HDTV WONDER

Originally posted by Yobyot
I tried that several times, with no luck. As a new user it was the first time I realized that "56" was "41."

Back to my rant: why should a user with a integrated ATSC tuner in a brand-new Sharp LCD need to know how channels are mapped? Why should I have to enter the real channel when the system is designed to hide that from me?

This is all too far from solid for it to be a successful consumer electronics technology.

(I left a voicemail for the chief engineer at WLVI; I hope they react as some of the others here who are responsible for their stations. I am amazed at the direct level of communication among these engineers and the Internet community.)

I think most of us basically agree with you, but you've got to realize that the reality is that ATSC is still in its infancy and will (hopefully) only improve over time. NTSC has been around for a very long time and I'm sure it went through some growing pains early in its life.

Regarding channel mapping - it only works if the station is sending the correct PSIP information in the broadcast and can only be used for tuning channels if your tuner picked up that PSIP information while scanning stations in the first place. If you haven't done a station scan and decide to enter "56.1" as a channel number, the tuner can only assume that you want to go to physical channel 56, subchannel 1 because it doesn't have anything else to go on (or it would have to do a channel scan at that time looking for a channel with a map of the physical number to the number you entered). In these relatively early days of ATSC, I think it's imperative that people understand what the physical channel numbers are - if nothing else people may get the impression that they can use a VHF only antenna to receive the Boston OTA ATSC channels, which they cannot do.

Edited to add:

Personally, I think the channel remapping is a really bad idea as it leads to tons of confusion and increases complexity without any real benefit (IMHO). Once you make the transition, is it really that difficult to remember that WLVI is now channel 41 instead of 56?

Originally posted by gsr
...Personally, I think the channel remapping is a really bad idea as it leads to tons of confusion and increases complexity without any real benefit (IMHO). Once you make the transition, is it really that difficult to remember that WLVI is now channel 41 instead of 56?

I doubt that the broadcasters would have ever agreed to DTV if channel mapping wasn't included. Probably billions have been spent on marketing the channel numbers.

When I was on a cable TV committee in a local MA town, there were issues every time the cable company remapped a channel from its previous assignment. It taught me that the broadcasters see the number as part of their brand.

I understand that telling people they need a UHF antenna is a good idea, but don't think people really care about the channel numbers any more. They are just responding the the marketing of the broadcasters' stations, which is about the number as much as the call sign.

I lost 4-1 this morning, strong signal, but no audio or video. 38-1 works fine.
Tried rescanning, same results.
sir-t351 stb.

Update- just checked at noon, I had 4-1 working again.

Originally posted by Yobyot
I doubt that the broadcasters would have ever agreed to DTV if channel mapping wasn't included. Probably billions have been spent on marketing the channel numbers.

When I was on a cable TV committee in a local MA town, there were issues every time the cable company remapped a channel from its previous assignment. It taught me that the broadcasters see the number as part of their brand.

I understand that telling people they need a UHF antenna is a good idea, but don't think people really care about the channel numbers any more. They are just responding the the marketing of the broadcasters' stations, which is about the number as much as the call sign.

I can understand why a station would be concerned if their channel number keeps changing as viewers will get lost. It's sort of like when the networks play around with the timeslot they put a show in and viewers lose interest because they're only willing to look so hard to find a show which often ends up with the show being dropped because of lack of viewership.

However, a 1 time remap really isn't that difficult to handle, IMO and would make the receivers a lot easier to design. When the telephone company redid area codes a number of years back, the transition was a little bit painful at the time, but it didn't take long for people to get used to the new numbers.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Not sure what you were seeing. I watched most of the second half of the game and sam no freezes or audio sync problems. Switches into anbd out of the local breaks on the splicer were fine. I know others are seeing it but I didn't see it here today.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill - This post makes it sound as if you've investigated and determined there is no problem with your DTV broadcast?? I hope this is not the conclusion you've come to, there most defitely IS a problem.

Video breakups during the Vikings/Packers game were status quo for the last several weeks. Audio is unaffected. Local programming is less affected by the video discontinuity problems but they are still there.

Please take into consideration the following items before you conclude any work on this:

1) Mutliple people with several different brands of receivers have reported these issues.
2) These issues were initially present at the cut-over in Aug and had been resolved prior to the installation of the new splicer in November.
3) I have two Panasonic tuners (one newer, one older) which BOTH exhibit the problem. If you're not aware, Panasonic is a pioneer in ATSC tuners and even my older box was their third or fourth offering in this market. On top of that, they produce some of the best MPEG decoders on the market today and have been using them in their own products and supplying them to other high-end video equipment mfrs for a decade or more, so I highly doubt there it some generic problem with their implementation.
4) WFXT seems to be the only station which exhibits these issues of all Boston/NH area stations I receive (which is pretty much all of them.)
5) Any ATSC DTV stream amounts to SW, and with this comes compatibility issues. Gone are the days when an analog carrier could simply be demodulated and processed by passive solid state components. I would hope the DTV broadcasters would want to have as many different existing ATSC receivers as they could to monitor their broadcasts for potential problems. Based on posts from several Boston station insiders here, it seems the trend is to choose only one or two models and this clearly isn't a wide enough cross-section.

I am currently not using my newer Panny ATSC tuner (TU-DST52) so if you'd like to borrow it so you can see the problem, please let me know and I'd be happy to send it to you. Just send me a PM to arrange the details.

Mr H. - Since you seem to have the technical tools to disect the ATSC streams, is there any chance you could look at WFXT-DTs stream on ch.31 (25-1) and let us know if you see anything obvious? That would be a big help. TIA.

No problem receiving 30-1 on either my RCA DTC-100, Hughes HD Tivo or Mits WD62725 (built-in tuner). I had a problem last week after the snowstorm, but I'm guessing the snow outside was causing a multipath pr
oblem. Once it receded, all stations were back to normal.

Originally posted by Yobyot
I'm glad to hear that others see the same thing as I am experiencing. But what concerns me is that whatever WLVI did (and whatever WGBH did before) simply shouldn't be allowed under the standards.

I have no idea about WGBH, but what WLVI was doing the past few days is not allowed under the standards. Their data stream had been missing required packets for identifying programs in the data stream. The packets were still missing last night, but when I checked again just now, I found that the problem has been corrected. Here's what it looks like now:
Tuned "/dev/dtv" to channel 41.
Stream contains 2 program(s).
Program 2: 56-1 WLVI-D1:
Video (MPEG-2), language = eng
Audio (Dolby AC-3), language = eng
Program 4:
Video (MPEG-2)
Audio (Dolby AC-3)
Audio (Dolby AC-3)

So without remapping, you'd want to use 41-2.

I now have 56-1 WLVI-D1 as of today, and 4-1 is OK again after a re-scan. Still no A/V on 56-2, however.

I did send a message via the WLVI website last night concerning the issue (no reply as yet), maybe it helped, or maybe they figured it out on their own, who knows.

Not sure how valuable all this expensive technology is, considering the first thing I saw on WLVI was Jerry Springer, but it sure was a nice-looking signal...;)

-PhiloT

I got this today from the WSBK Programming coordinator:
WSBK is working to get the Red Sox games in HD for the 2005 season. However, the HD WSBK signal is not carried on Comcast. You would have to get the over the air HD signal. We are also working on getting the games on Comcast in HD for the season.
When I asked her how confident was she that it would ba happening, she said the Programming Director was very positive about it, but that it's not set in stone. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

With the planned PID change for our DTV signal coming this week, we did a software upgrade to our splicer earlier today. Let me know if this upgrade has any effect on the issues we have been looking into over the last couple of months.
Also, we will be adding some Dynamic PSIP equipment shortly. I will try to post when it goes on-line.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

WLVI coming in again on my fusion 3 gold QAM.. :) Excellent. Now I need to figure out why WSBK has such flaky reception, even though I suppose some of these other channels are co-located. Is 39 a "bad" frequency?

Originally posted by davatar
WLVI coming in again on my fusion 3 gold QAM.. :) Excellent. Now I need to figure out why WSBK has such flaky reception, even though I suppose some of these other channels are co-located. Is 39 a "bad" frequency?

WSBK is also my most flakiest DTV channel as well. It's most likely due to multi-path cause by terrain issues.

Bill Holbrook,
24 Looked and Sounded AWESOME last night, great job on all those upgrades!

Jim

Firmware for my USDigital STB arrived today, and installed. All works OK, but now instead of getting 56-1 OK and 56-2 with no A/V, only 56-1 shows up at all. Can't add 56-2 manually, so I guess that's that.

Is there supposed to be regularly scheduled programming on 56-2? I don't see any mention of it on the WLVI site, but then they don't give much info on 56-1 either, except a list of some shows that broadcast in HD. Seems things are a bit on the "sleepy" side over there as regards DTV...

WSBK has been very weak here all day, but that's usually the case. I think it must be somewhat prone to multipath to judge from the wild signal strength swings here.

-PhiloT

philoT

56.2 is the same video as 56.1. I no longer have it either on my LG boxes. Don't worry about it.

Originally posted by vfrjim
24 Looked and Sounded AWESOME last night


I agree that it sounded great. While I was watching it, it looked great. When I was done, I switched to CBS, and whatever was on (some version of CSI, I think) looked significantly better visually. Not sure if it was just due to the 720p vs 1080i thing, or my equipment, or what (actually, I was watching via Comcast).

No Audio on CBS 4-1. Been this way since Monday. I've rebooted my receiver, Sammy T160 still no audio. Anyone else seeing/hearing this?

No audio on my Samsung TS160 for WBZ-DT today, I even rescanned the channels and nothing. Robert Yankowitz, please help.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
With the planned PID change for our DTV signal coming this week, we did a software upgrade to our splicer earlier today. Let me know if this upgrade has any effect on the issues we have been looking into over the last couple of months.
Also, we will be adding some Dynamic PSIP equipment shortly. I will try to post when it goes on-line.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill,

Just checked 25-1 tonight and had no video or audio problems. Hopefully all is well now. Thank you for your efforts and for checking this forum. Can't wait to watch the Superbowl in HD this year.

SIR-T451 in Acton, MA

p.s. To whom it may concern, 56-1 looked fine tonight also. No video/audio sync problems. How does it look on your Wally World receiver PhiloT?

Does 56 have any intentions of bumping up their broadcast strength? It's the only Boston channel I can't pull in up here in Lowell. :(

Originally posted by vfrjim
No audio on my Samsung TS160 for WBZ-DT today, I even rescanned the channels and nothing. Robert Yankowitz, please help.
I don't have any magic bullets, but how about this...

I've heard of some receivers that will just not let go of what they remember unless you use the convincer. In this case, the convincer is to remove the antenna connection and rescan. This will fool the receiver into thinking there are no channels available, and they will erase everything they think they know. Reattach the antenna and rescan one final time and, with luck, you'll be back in business. Let me know if you try this and how it works out for you.

I have audio OK on 4-1, but on the network feed tonight (Judging Amy) it was noticeably out of sync with the video. Seemed better when the local news came on, but still off a little. I hadn't noticed that before on WBZ-DT, happens quite often on WBGH 2-1. What causes these timing errors, anybody know?

Originally posted by RYankowitz
I don't have any magic bullets, but how about this...

I've heard of some receivers that will just not let go of what they remember unless you use the convincer. In this case, the convincer is to remove the antenna connection and rescan. This will fool the receiver into thinking there are no channels available, and they will erase everything they think they know. Reattach the antenna and rescan one final time and, with luck, you'll be back in business. Let me know if you try this and how it works out for you.

Did all of that, but no luck. I forget how to do a "master reset" of the TS160, but will try to find out before I call Samsung to get this thing working. All my other HD tuners get WBZ with no problem.

NOPE, did a master reset and it did not fix the problem......What to do....???

Originally posted by Hugh_DaMann
Bill,

Just checked 25-1 tonight and had no video or audio problems. Hopefully all is well now. Thank you for your efforts and for checking this forum. Can't wait to watch the Superbowl in HD this year.

SIR-T451 in Acton, MA

p.s. To whom it may concern, 56-1 looked fine tonight also. No video/audio sync problems. How does it look on your Wally World receiver PhiloT?

FWIW, 25 looked great tonight when I checked, and 56-1 looked very good as well, no audio or video problems on either one.

-PhiloT

PS-Just checked Letterman on WBZ-DT, sound was perfectly synced. It's voodoo...

Originally posted by BHolbrook
With the planned PID change for our DTV signal coming this week, we did a software upgrade to our splicer earlier today. Let me know if this upgrade has any effect on the issues we have been looking into over the last couple of months.


This seemed to have helped my SIR-T451. I checked out the Branson show yesterday, and I did not see any of the problems I have seen before, and they had a lot of detailed and fast moving images in that show (at least the 10 minutes I saw).

Great work!

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Let me know if this upgrade has any effect on the issues we have been looking into over the last couple of months.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill - Not sure if the daytime programming is local or national feed (I'm guessing local) but it appears the upgrade has resolved this issue. I'll be sure to check the primetime programming tonight as well. Others seemed optimistic that the problems have been vanquished based on last nights viewing.

Thanks for following up on this and monitoring the posts here. It sure was a nice surpirse to see this issue finally get worked out!

Attn to all that are having problems with Audio issues on the Samsung TS160 and 360:

I called Samsung and found out the problem with no Audio on channels 4-1 and 5-2, it is caused from DirectTV sending invalid PID data in the Guide information. Till this data is updated, here is a fix BUT you will not get any data showing the Guide for the time being.

First, hit menu, go to setup, go to installation, go to local networks. Then go to the primary and secondary air sections and hit "clear" on both. After you exit the menu, it will automatically reboot. After it reboots, you will now have audio on all channels, but no guide info. If any channels are missing, do a "rescan" of the channels. Samsung has informed DirecTV about this issue and hopefully it will be fixed in the near future but this is a good "temp fix" for now. Hope this helps all of you.

Jim

Anybody else watch CSI:NY last night on CBS last night? I didn't get any center channel dialogue in the beginning. After the theme song, when the dialogue was still missing, I switched to my DISH CBS, which had the dialogue. 10 minutes later I checked back in with the HD broadcast and the dialogue was back.

Did anybody else notice this? Does this happen often?

I noticed that also. Never seen anything like it before. We never switched back, just watched the rest in lowdef on cable.

Originally posted by upNdown
Anybody else watch CSI:NY last night on CBS last night? I didn't get any center channel dialogue in the beginning. After the theme song, when the dialogue was still missing, I switched to my DISH CBS, which had the dialogue. 10 minutes later I checked back in with the HD broadcast and the dialogue was back.

Did anybody else notice this? Does this happen often?

Yep, WBZ-DT had messed up audio, no center channel output and WPRI-DT didn't throw the switch to HD, left it in SD. Thankfully I had other ways to watch it.

A few quick minutes of watching 25-1 last night (during "Lost" commercial breaks) revealed no apparent problems. They were fairly obvious, so I'm pretty confident they've been fixed. Thanks Bill!!

One thing I did notice yesterday while monitoring the local daytime stuff was that there seemed to be some slight a/v synch issues, but only on some programs. It seemed like sometimes the audio was leading the video by a few hundred milliseconds or so. Didn't notice any of this during the few minutes of primetime programming I watched, though.

I'm having some weird issues with 5-1 and 25-1.

5-1 has snow pulsating in the backgroud almost like a strobe light. 25-1 is similar yet not as bad. I was afraid that it might be my television, but the problem does not appear on other channels (4-1, HDNET, Disc HD).

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by bfriend
I'm having some weird issues with 5-1 and 25-1.

5-1 has snow pulsating in the backgroud almost like a strobe light. 25-1 is similar yet not as bad. I was afraid that it might be my television, but the problem does not appear on other channels (4-1, HDNET, Disc HD).

Any thoughts? What model display do you have?

Originally posted by Doug G
One thing I did notice yesterday while monitoring the local daytime stuff was that there seemed to be some slight a/v synch issues, but only on some programs. It seemed like sometimes the audio was leading the video by a few hundred milliseconds or so.

Well, I was both lucky and surprised to see a commercial this morning while watching the analog feed of FOX25 (from Comcast) that I had remembered seeing and having these issues on the digital side. (It was for "Chair Fair" I think.) Turns out I saw the exact same a/v synch issues, audio leading video by a few hundred ms or so. Maybe there's an issue with a particular piece of equipment they're using to originate local programming? I don't think it was the source material since I also remembered some talk show on around 12 noon-ish having the same issues. So this doesn't appear related to the DTV side at all.

Also, I watched about 10 minutes of "OC" last night (about all I could take) and didn't note any discontinuities, a/v synch, or other general issues.

Originally posted by Benji
What model display do you have?

Hitachi 50VS810 and a Zenith SAT HD-520 receiver. However, 5-1 appears to be the only channel this is happening on. 25-1 was fine after adjusting my antenna.

Attn to all that are having problems with Audio issues on the Samsung TS160 and 360:
Does anyone know if this has happened in any other geographic areas, or is it only WBZ 4-1?

-Steve

What the heck is going on with 25.1, 38.1 and 56.1? I've been getting a good strong signal on my Sony HD300. tonight while watching Enterprise (38.1) signal was in the "bad" section and the picture was breaking up. The same thing with 25.1 and 56.1.
4.1, 5.1 7.1 are all coming in nice and strong.

Originally posted by Steve O
Does anyone know if this has happened in any other geographic areas, or is it only WBZ 4-1?

-Steve

It could have happened in other areas, especially if channels change their PID info and DirecTV does not update their info in the guide, from what Samsung told me. Talk to Steve (Engineer @ Samsung, Tier 2 tech) if you need more info about your area.

No, I'm in Boston with a 160 so it affected me. I was just curious how wide-spread the problem was. If it's a problem nowhere else but here in Boston, the chances of getting DirecTV to actually act to fix it is probably pretty slim.

-Steve

Originally posted by vfrjim
Attn to all that are having problems with Audio issues on the Samsung TS160 and 360:

I called Samsung and found out the problem with no Audio on channels 4-1 and 5-2, it is caused from DirectTV sending invalid PID data in the Guide information. Till this data is updated, here is a fix BUT you will not get any data showing the Guide for the time being.

First, hit menu, go to setup, go to installation, go to local networks. Then go to the primary and secondary air sections and hit "clear" on both. After you exit the menu, it will automatically reboot. After it reboots, you will now have audio on all channels, but no guide info. If any channels are missing, do a "rescan" of the channels. Samsung has informed DirecTV about this issue and hopefully it will be fixed in the near future but this is a good "temp fix" for now. Hope this helps all of you.

Jim
Thanks for the info... I'm in Boston with a 160 and have had issues with no audio on 5-2 for weeks, and 4-1 sometime in the last week... I'm going to have to call and put the pressure on Samsung to get on Directv, because I want my guide info back.

I have the same problem with wbz and wcvb 2. however I don't have the samsung I have the rca dtc210. so what do I do? thanks

WTF? last night 38.1 kept dropping out every few seconds during enterprise. Now it's being rebroadcast, and IT'S NOT IN HD!!! Why even bother running a HD stream..

>:|

What is the multicast status of the Big 4 networks in Boston? We have a thread going in the Programming forum trying to pick the best market for OTA HD. The latest criteria we're using to narrow down the Top 10 is multicasting. For now, we're allowing a weather radar channel for 1080i networks (CBS, NBC) and we're allowing a weather radar and 1 SD channel for 720p networks (ABC, FOX). How does Boston stack up?

Originally posted by CPanther95
What is the multicast status of the Big 4 networks in Boston? We have a thread going in the Programming forum trying to pick the best market for OTA HD. The latest criteria we're using to narrow down the Top 10 is multicasting. For now, we're allowing a weather radar channel for 1080i networks (CBS, NBC) and we're allowing a weather radar and 1 SD channel for 720p networks (ABC, FOX). How does Boston stack up?

WBZ-DT (CBS) No
WCVB-DT (ABC) Multicasts 1 channel with ABC News Now
WHDH-DT (NBC) No
WFXT-DT (FOX) No

A favor from you, please...

Is anyone having trouble receiving WBZ-DT right now (noon, 1/16/05), over-the-air or cable?

We have received a number of phone calls from OTA viewers reporting they cannot tune to 4.1. Everything looks normal to our Master Control operator and maintenance engineers, and to me at home.

I'd appreciate anything you can contribute.

Thanks...

OTA 4-1 being received A-OK in Plymouth.

WBZ-DT is just fine here right now (12:27 PM).

-PhiloT

Originally posted by PhiloT
WBZ-DT is just fine here right now (12:27 PM).

-PhiloT

Thanks guys. Appreciate the quick response.

Getting strong signal and no multipath problems in Raynham on 4-1.

Does anyone know what or who is broadcasting on mapped channel "41.2?" A rescan I did today to reacquire WLVI produced this new channel in my Sharp LC-32GD4U's memory.

41-2 is WLVI-DT.

4.1 is looking fine, strong signal, here in southern NH, 2:36PM.
25.1 is not doing so well though, which is typical,
my 25.1 reception is always very sensitive to weather conditions & time-of-day.

Im not recieving any audio. It could be my set up, it seems fine for all channels that are digital/ac3 or regular stereo. the info on the guide doesn't sya what type of audio?

can someone help

Originally posted by RYankowitz
A favor from you, please...

Is anyone having trouble receiving WBZ-DT right now (noon, 1/16/05), over-the-air or cable?

We have received a number of phone calls from OTA viewers reporting they cannot tune to 4.1. Everything looks normal to our Master Control operator and maintenance engineers, and to me at home.

I'd appreciate anything you can contribute.

Thanks...

I just followed the suggestion on the previous page, and it got audi back, but no center channel.
yes re: wbzdt

I have Samsung sir-t165. around 2 am Saturday morning while channel surfing my receiver crashed when got to 4-1. It keeped rebooting & could not lock in to 4-1 signal. Also could not do anything with receiver but power off & on. I did finally resolve problem by disconnecting antenna power up receiver changed to another channel,power off,reconnect antenna. Everything looked good until I got back to channel 4-1. Had to repeat proceedure to regain funtions. Then I proceeded to rescan all stations. I now have a good 4-1 signal.
My guess initially was a problem with receiver.
Any ideas why this happen????

I found that turning off surround sound sounds better (I get the center channel). but no surround sound. it will work, but I still wonder whats going on.

I just turn off/on my audio reciever, and everything seems back to normal.

No audio here. I don't get the analog version OTA for WBZ so it looks like I'll tune to wbcn for audio - if I can get that.

No setup changes here, and I get audio on all other stations.

No OTA Audio at all for me either. Analog and other stations are working fine.

Has anyone called DirecTV to put the pressure on? I like my guide info.

Originally posted by Flynnstoned
Has anyone called DirecTV to put the pressure on? I like my guide info.

What does DirectTV have to do with OTA issue?

This could also be tossed into the HTPC area but I figured more local area viewers could chime in, besides it's somewhat of an OTA topic.

I am having an OTA issue with Fox on my Hipix tuner card. All other OTA stations work fine with the highpix. In addition to that, my Sammy 360 receives an OTA signal from 25-1 so I am trying to determine if anyone has a hipix or other card and can receive 25-1?

PATS - COLTS looked great and all DTV-HDTV transitions were smooth. Great Job WBZ!!!!!

Originally posted by wkehn
This could also be tossed into the HTPC area but I figured more local area viewers could chime in, besides it's somewhat of an OTA topic.

I am having an OTA issue with Fox on my Hipix tuner card. All other OTA stations work fine with the highpix. In addition to that, my Sammy 360 receives an OTA signal from 25-1 so I am trying to determine if anyone has a hipix or other card and can receive 25-1?

My accessDTV cards receive FOX 25-1 just fine.

Please see the text below, taken from the Samsung website.

Please note, we have received reports of this problem from owners of receivers of both Samsung and other manufacturers. If you have another brand of receiver, use these procedures at your own risk.

Also, as you can see, the procedure is anything but simple, so take extra care as you perform it.

_____________________________________________
Local HDTV broadcasters were recently required by the FCC to change the MPEG-2 Packet Identifier (PID) value at their broadcasting head end to a value above 0x0030. This change had to be made by January 1, 2005. One of the unforeseen results of this change is that in certain areas of the country, set-top-boxes from a number of manufacturers, including Samsung's SIR-TS160 and SIR-TS360, get only the video portion of local, over-the-air (OTA) high definition broadcasts but not the audio. Samsung and Direct TV engineers are working to rectify the problem and should have a permanent solution shortly.

A temporary work around for this problem has been developed. It involves removing the zip codes from primary and secondary air and then rescanning the channels.

Removing the Zip Codes
To remove the zip codes, follow these steps:
[list=1]
Turn on your TV and your set-top box.
Press the Menu button on your remote control.
Highlight Setup and press the OK button.
Highlight Installation and press the OK button.
Highlight Local Networks and press the OK button.
Highlight Primary Air and press the OK button.
Highlight Clear and press the OK button.
Press the Back button.
If you entered a Zip Code in Secondary Air, highlight Secondary Air, and press the OK button.
Repeat Steps 7 and 8.
Press the Exit button on the remote. The set-top-box will reboot. [/list=1]
Rescanning the Channels
To rescan the channels, follow these steps:[list=1]
Press the MENU button on your remote control.
Highlight the Setup menu item, and then press the OK button.
Highlight the Antenna & Cable menu item, and then press the OK button.
Highlight the Scan Type menu item, and then press the OK button to display the list of available channel types. The Scan Type list appears.
Note: The Scan Type list lets you set your DIRECTV® HD receiver to scan automatically for channels from Digital sources (off-air ATSC broadcasts), Off-Air NTSC sources (standard TV broadcasts), Cable NTSC (standard cable TV services), or all of these.
If this is the first time you are setting up this DIRECTV® HD Receiver to receive local channels, use the All setting. Otherwise, OK the specific Scan Type listing.
Highlight the Scan Type that matches the type of broadcasts you would like to program into your DIRECTV® HD receiver, and then press the OK button.
Set your cable TV type by highlighting the Cable Type menu item and pressing OK.
Highlight the type of cable signal your cable TV service provides (STD, HRC, or IRC), and press the OK button.
Note: STD, HRC and IRC are signal formats used by cable TV services. Contact your Cable TV service provider to determine which signal type they use.
Highlight the Scan Channels menu item, and then press the OK button. The Scan Channels screen appears and the DIRECTV® HD receiver automatically starts looking for all available channels of the type you specified in the Scan Type list.
Wait until the scan is completed. If the automatic scan included any channels that you do not intend to watch, you can edit the channel list by using the Add/Remove Channels menu item in the Antenna & Cable menu.
If any of the off-air antenna channels appear out-of-tune, you can fine tune them using the Fine Tune Channels item in the Antenna & Cable menu.
If you have added digital channels from an off-air antenna, you can check the signal strength for that channel by using the Digital Off-Air Signal Strength menu item in the Antenna & Cable menu.
To exit the Menu system press the EXIT button on your remote control. [/list=1]

Note: This work around lets you get both video and audio for the OTA channels. However, you will not be able to get the Guide Data (onscreen listing of upcoming programs) for these channels. This problem should be corrected shortly.

©2004 SAMSUNG. All rights reserved.
_____________________________________________

I'll keep you informed as we learn more...

Wow! For once, I'm glad I bought the cheapie box...

PSIP Guide Data:

I'm attempting to verify if the accessDTV software and drivers are both receiving and decoding the PSIP guide data, specifically the Event Information Table (EIT) and the Extended Text Table (ETT) data.

I'm getting Master Guide Table (MGT), System Time Table (STT), Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table (TVCT), Rating Region Table (RRT) data, but don't see any EIT or ETT entries in my logs and it's tough to know if this is because it isn't being transmitted or isn't being decoded properly in the drivers or software (from what I can tell, I've added the appropriate monitor entries to ask the drivers to send the data to the application software). Before I dig too much deeper into analyzing the MGT table data to see if it is showing any incoming EIT or ETT data, I'd like to know that one or more of the Boston stations are actually transmitting this data - otherwise, I'll probably be wasting my time.

I'm looking into this to determine if it's worth my time to consider adding some sort of PSIP guide data support to the accessDTV software.

Originally posted by wkehn
This could also be tossed into the HTPC area but I figured more local area viewers could chime in, besides it's somewhat of an OTA topic.

I am having an OTA issue with Fox on my Hipix tuner card. All other OTA stations work fine with the highpix. In addition to that, my Sammy 360 receives an OTA signal from 25-1 so I am trying to determine if anyone has a hipix or other card and can receive 25-1?

Got a HiPix and a MyHD MDP120, no problems with either on 25-1, have a 47 signal level on the HiPix. Try clearing and rescanning the channels with the HiPix and see if that helps.

Jim

Thanks RYankowitz

I have a Samsung, and that cleared it up... football should be better now that it has sound!

I also get more channels by not limiting the scan with a zip code. cool.

I am on the west side of Worcester. Tatnuck, to be precise. How is over the air reception of the Boston networks in Worcester? What sort of equipment would I need?

I am mainly interested in UPN and Fox. But I'd appreciate info on any channel.

Originally posted by Shape
I am on the west side of Worcester. Tatnuck, to be precise. How is over the air reception of the Boston networks in Worcester? What sort of equipment would I need?

I am mainly interested in UPN and Fox. But I'd appreciate info on any channel.

Josh, if you haven't done so already go to antennaweb.org and punch in your address to see how all the stations sit relative to your location. I picked up a channelmaster 3021 from Stark in Worcester which is very close to you.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/

I'm about 26 miles from the Needham antennas but I also sit on a decent hill and have good exposure to the east/southeast. I have excellent signal on channels, 2, 4, 5, 7, 38 and decent reception on 25 despite the fact that my hipix tuner card can't see this. :rolleyes: You may want to step up to a little larger antenna such as a CM4228. Let me know if you need a hand selecting items.

Hey Bill, fancy seeing you here!

Yeah, I have already been there, and I can see what they say I need. But there is nothing like personal experience to go along with the web site answer.

The DirecTV HD hardware is still unreasonably expensive in this day and age. $350 is nuts when others are giving hardware away, and with cable card, we are on the crux of not needing any hardware at all unless you get satellite. And Charter Cable apparently doesn't have an HD Cable Card yet. So I'd have to rent a box. And their lineup is pretty bad.

OTA seems to be the way to go if you can get it.

Originally posted by Shape
Hey Bill, fancy seeing you here!

Yeah, I have already been there, and I can see what they say I need. But there is nothing like personal experience to go along with the web site answer.

The DirecTV HD hardware is still unreasonably expensive in this day and age. $350 is nuts when others are giving hardware away, and with cable card, we are on the crux of not needing any hardware at all unless you get satellite. And Charter Cable apparently doesn't have an HD Cable Card yet. So I'd have to rent a box. And their lineup is pretty bad.

OTA seems to be the way to go if you can get it.

I think it's time you called customer retention and talk about your account standing. ;)

Anyone near the Rhode Island boarder can now get WJAR 10-2 it's NBC national weather stream must of gone online today.

Most of the Boston locals are including Guide data. From a survey I did on 5-Jan:

Doing good:

4 (WBZ), 5 (WCVB), 7 (WHDH), 9 (WMUR), 38 (WSBK), 44 (WGBX) have both EIT and ETT tables with real data.

Not quite there yet:

2 (WGBH) has EIT with data, and ETT tables listed in the MGT, but there are no ETT packets present.

25 (WFXT) and 66 (WUTF) have EIT listed in the MGT, but none are present. No ETT in MGT.

50 (WNDS) no PSIP.

My Zenith HDR230 does a pretty good job of displaying the program grid, however it is dependent on stations broadcasting the correct time. Ch25 was way off the other day!

_Paul

Originally posted by Mr.H
Most of the Boston locals are including Guide data. From a survey I did on 5-Jan:

Doing good:

4 (WBZ), 5 (WCVB), 7 (WHDH), 9 (WMUR), 38 (WSBK), 44 (WGBX) have both EIT and ETT tables with real data.

Not quite there yet:

2 (WGBH) has EIT with data, and ETT tables listed in the MGT, but there are no ETT packets present.

25 (WFXT) and 66 (WUTF) have EIT listed in the MGT, but none are present. No ETT in MGT.

50 (WNDS) no PSIP.

My Zenith HDR230 does a pretty good job of displaying the program grid, however it is dependent on stations broadcasting the correct time. Ch25 was way off the other day!

Thanks for the response - that helps.

I did a little more research into things last night and did find that I do get MGT data that references EIT and ETT data, but I still don't see the EIT and ETT data coming through. I wanted to confirm that someone is seeing this data somewhere before I dig too deeply into the code so that I'm not chasing things that don't exist :).

Regarding the accuracy of the times and data - I'm not concerned about that at this point as I just want to get the main hooks in place for now. The data will get more accurate over time.

I'm still not really convinced that using PSIP data for a program guide is really a good way to go. You can obviously only get data for the channel that is currently being tuned and most users wouldn't be overly fond of an automatic channel scan at regular intervals to keep guide data up to date. However, to use it to show what's currently playing has some value (though if you already have a populated guide, you could just pull the data from there anyway).

My HiPix card struggles with WFXT as well. The signal strength meter bounces around quite a bit. I find that the CH25 signal has to bee quite a bit stronger than other stations before the HiPix will work correctly. My Zenith HDR230 does a better job on Ch25, but it too seems to want a better than average signal strength.

The other day I noticed that the signal strength was reading in the 50s (for the most part), however about half the packets demodulated had the error flag set; which I think means the HiPix was having problems demodulating the signal.

_Paul

gsr, I agree with a lot of what you say about the usefulness of the guide data. Most stations are listing only 12 hours ahead (CH5, WCVB) is ahead of the game with a full 24 hours of data, but even then it would be nice to look ahead a day, or 2.

Having said that, I do find myself using the feature on the Zenith more often these days. Having surfed around the channels once, the guide is all set for the rest of the evening.

Now if we could just get 2 and 25 to put up some real info!

_Paul

Originally posted by Mr.H
Most of the Boston locals are including Guide data. From a survey I did on 5-Jan:

Doing good:

4 (WBZ), 5 (WCVB), 7 (WHDH), 9 (WMUR), 38 (WSBK), 44 (WGBX) have both EIT and ETT tables with real data.

Not quite there yet:

2 (WGBH) has EIT with data, and ETT tables listed in the MGT, but there are no ETT packets present.

25 (WFXT) and 66 (WUTF) have EIT listed in the MGT, but none are present. No ETT in MGT.

50 (WNDS) no PSIP.

My Zenith HDR230 does a pretty good job of displaying the program grid, however it is dependent on stations broadcasting the correct time. Ch25 was way off the other day!

_Paul

Anything on 56.1?

Sorry, 56 is not a station I can get. I'm half way between 2 stations on channel 41. WLVI being one and VT PBS (analog) in Windsor, VT the other. WLVI is attenuated in my direction. Bummer!

_Paul

Originally posted by Mr.H
My HiPix card struggles with WFXT as well. The signal strength meter bounces around quite a bit. I find that the CH25 signal has to bee quite a bit stronger than other stations before the HiPix will work correctly. My Zenith HDR230 does a better job on Ch25, but it too seems to want a better than average signal strength.

The other day I noticed that the signal strength was reading in the 50s (for the most part), however about half the packets demodulated had the error flag set; which I think means the HiPix was having problems demodulating the signal.

_Paul

With all the PID changes taking place and my TS360 having no audio on BZ I decided to clear the channels, reset each and for the hipix rescan the ATSC lineup. Sure enough, I get 87 signal now on 25-1 and audio on 4-1.

Our dynamic PSIP gear was ordered (along with the other Fox O&O's) a while ago and it is scheduled to arrive in the next couple of days. I will update when the units arfe installed.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Did anyone notice audio/video drop-outs on WHDH-DT last night - especially during Law & Order? Subs on both Comcast and Adelphia were having problems, so I'm assuming it was also an OTA problem.
Thanks.

Add Monday night and Las Vegas (comcast) to the list of probs.

yeah


last night i had absolutely no signal on whdh, while this weekend the signal was excellent. addtionally, Fox-25 and WHDH are usually around the same strength level. however, i had great quality on Fox last night. its kind of tough for me to figure out since i'm a new owner and i'm still going thru the learning curve. a couple of weeks ago i had horrendous qualitiy on fox-25 during the football games. what's going on????

Any word from HDH? Last night was horrendous (severe picture freezes/audio drops) starting with West Wing all the way to Leno...had to watch SD :(

I just heard back from WHDH - they say they're having problems with the HD feed from the Network...and they're aware of the problem and are trying to fix it.

Hopefully, soon!!

Originally posted by gsr
Thanks for the response - that helps.

I did a little more research into things last night and did find that I do get MGT data that references EIT and ETT data, but I still don't see the EIT and ETT data coming through. I wanted to confirm that someone is seeing this data somewhere before I dig too deeply into the code so that I'm not chasing things that don't exist :).

Regarding the accuracy of the times and data - I'm not concerned about that at this point as I just want to get the main hooks in place for now. The data will get more accurate over time.

I'm still not really convinced that using PSIP data for a program guide is really a good way to go. You can obviously only get data for the channel that is currently being tuned and most users wouldn't be overly fond of an automatic channel scan at regular intervals to keep guide data up to date. However, to use it to show what's currently playing has some value (though if you already have a populated guide, you could just pull the data from there anyway).

Sorry for straying off topic, but in case anyone happens to be interested :), I did some looking into the code and I believe I now know why I don't see the EIT and ETT tables in my logs. The source code is setup to filter PSIP tables by a combination of PID and table ID. Most of the tables (MGT, TVCT, CVCT, RRT, and STT) use a PID of 0x1FFB. But the EIT and ETT tables have their own PID's that are determined by entries in the MGT table and can be pretty much anything from 0x0050-0x1FEF (according to the PSIP book I have), so I need to either come up with a scheme to monitor the MGT table and add/remove filters for the EIT/ETT tables by what is in the MGT table or modify driver code to allow EIT and ETT to be filtered only by their table ID (it's possible there might be a "special" PID defined that will let me do this without changing any driver code, but I haven't found anything yet. Not sure if it's worth the effort that may be involved.

To sort of get back on topic, it looks like many of the Boston stations are quickly getting on board and broadcasting proper PSIP information, which is certainly nice to see.

gsr, I think the preferred method is to monitor the MGT and filter based on the PIDs defined there. Note that the MGT also has table size information if you need to allocate a buffer ahead of time for each table.

Don't forget to tie in to the RRT and display the rating for each program:)

_Paul

Is there nothing in WBZ 4-1. My SirT165 tuned it seemingly fine, says digital sound on screen but there is no picture and there is no sound. I was hoping to watch football the evening in HD. Is this just the rescan again. Or is WBZ not broadcasting, or am I having reception problems? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I'm receiving 4-1 fine here on my HD TiVo (HR10-250).

Bruce, thanks, I rescanned and now it is coming in fine and looking brilliant. I don't like to have to rescan as it picks up all kinds of analogue channels that I am then forced to go through and manually delete. Thanks again.

Just wondering if anyone had any problems with the game yesterday on Fox? With the Super Bowl coming up I just wanted to make sure there were none of the previous issues to deal with before the 6th.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Looked perfect in RI. I tried both my Samsung 360 and the HD TiVo. There were no break ups or loss of signal. Keep up the good work for the Superbowl!

SMK

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Just wondering if anyone had any problems with the game yesterday on Fox? With the Super Bowl coming up I just wanted to make sure there were none of the previous issues to deal with before the 6th.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

I saw no issues.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Just wondering if anyone had any problems with the game yesterday on Fox? With the Super Bowl coming up I just wanted to make sure there were none of the previous issues to deal with before the 6th.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill,

Tough reception in Holden. Signal has been extremely weak over the last 2-3 weeks...Unfortunately had to watch the game on D*. The signal was great for about 4-5 months but has diminished to where it was a year ago. Has FXT decreased power?

Chris

PinnacleDev,

What sort of antenna/amp do you have to receive HD in Holden? What channels do you receive? I'm just wondering if it is indicative of what I might get on the west side of Worcester.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Just wondering if anyone had any problems with the game yesterday on Fox? With the Super Bowl coming up I just wanted to make sure there were none of the previous issues to deal with before the 6th.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT
Reception fine in Somerville.

was great here in Salisbury too!

Originally posted by Shape
PinnacleDev,

What sort of antenna/amp do you have to receive HD in Holden? What channels do you receive? I'm just wondering if it is indicative of what I might get on the west side of Worcester.

I'm using a CM 4228 with a CM7775 mounted outside. I have excellent signal strength on all of the major Boston channels except for WFTX (lately). My signal strength averages in the mid to high 90's on 2.x, 4.1, 5.x, 7.x, 38.1, 44.x. I average in the 70's for 56.x and right now I get a signal in the 30 - 40 range for 25.1 ("NO SIGNAL") which until recently was around 65-70. Hope this helps.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Just wondering if anyone had any problems with the game yesterday on Fox? With the Super Bowl coming up I just wanted to make sure there were none of the previous issues to deal with before the 6th.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Great 100% reception here in Milford, also 24 on Monday was great keep up the good job.

Originally posted by PinnacleDev
I'm using a CM 4228 with a CM7775 mounted outside. I have excellent signal strength on all of the major Boston channels except for WFTX (lately). My signal strength averages in the mid to high 90's on 2.x, 4.1, 5.x, 7.x, 38.1, 44.x. I average in the 70's for 56.x and right now I get a signal in the 30 - 40 range for 25.1 ("NO SIGNAL") which until recently was around 65-70. Hope this helps.

I live in Leicester (37 miles from the tower) and have been getting a solid 80% for months now with WFXT. I use the antennas direct DB4 with a Winegard dist amp. You m ay have to try moving your antenna around and experiment with resolving your multipath issues.

Was WFXT's signal boosted during the NFC Championship Sunday? I'm in Weymouth and haven't been able to get my DB4 on the roof because of all the bad weather. So I've been using it indoors. But I've never been able to get WFXT at any better than about 55%. Until Sunday afternoon when I tried it for the football game. I got around 70% pretty consistently. Could the bad weather have been good for my reception?

Originally posted by upNdown
Was WFXT's signal boosted during the NFC Championship Sunday? I'm in Weymouth and haven't been able to get my DB4 on the roof because of all the bad weather. So I've been using it indoors. But I've never been able to get WFXT at any better than about 55%. Until Sunday afternoon when I tried it for the football game. I got around 70% pretty consistently. Could the bad weather have been good for my reception?

Yes. It is not unusual for low clouds to assist with reception. I also experienced very strong signal strength during the storm.

Thanks for all the positive feedback. Hopefully there will be no issues for what should be the most watched HD program in this market's history. Let me know if any problems develop.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill - Ever since the SW upgrade on the splicer, things have looked mint!

NFC Championship game looked great. "24" on Monday and last night "House" were problem free, as well.

Glad the problems have been resolved, especially since the Pats are playing in the big game!

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Thanks for all the positive feedback. Hopefully there will be no issues for what should be the most watched HD program in this market's history. Let me know if any problems develop.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT


Well, can you bring in some more clouds to help my reception? If not, can you boost the signal?

I'm kidding obviously, but I'll be one sorry dude if I can't get the big game in HD.

I know this subject has been kicked around a bit, but I want to give it another try.
I'm only a few months into HD tuning and I can't get Channel 56 to go over 25% on reception. I'm in Everett and get all the other stations very nicely. I get the analog 56 pretty good, so I have that as my only analog channel on my list. (I'm assuming D56 is transmitted from the same area as A56)
Anyway digital 56 is very unpredictable. So my basic queston is whether others are having trouble, or should I figure out how to fix my problem.
If it makes any dif, I'm using MyHD.
Thanks,
Mike

WFXT has added our new Dynamic PSIP generator to our stream. Let me know if there are any issues. Please post as much info as possible, what type of Set top box you are using etc. This info will help if there are any issues seen.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Bill...using a DTC100 built in to F38310 and still not getting PSIP from WFXT. I do get PSIP from 2, 4, 5, 7, 38 (sometimes), 44 and 56.

Please be advised that WCVB-DT will change its programming on digital channel 5.2. As of Saturday, January 29th at 12:01AM, WCVB will drop ABC NewsNow and will switch to the previous imaging of the live Doppler RADAR.

Originally posted by Rick Zach
Please be advised that WCVB-DT will change its programming on digital channel 5.2. As of Saturday, January 29th at 12:01AM, WCVB will drop ABC NewsNow and will switch to the previous imaging of the live Doppler RADAR.

Cool, maybe I will finally get my audio back on 5.2, it has been gone for months.
(samsung TS-160 receiver)(Directv sending out wrong info about the PIDS so audio does not exist, same thing happening on 4-1)

Jim

Update on WFXT PSIP: Still not getting any info on my DTC-100 but info is showing up on my Mits WD62725 built-in digital tuner.

Originally posted by vfrjim
Cool, maybe I will finally get my audio back on 5.2, it has been gone for months.
(samsung TS-160 receiver)(Directv sending out wrong info about the PIDS so audio does not exist, same thing happening on 4-1)

Jim
There is a work around for the audio problem on 4.1, go to setup menu and remove both primary and secondary zip codes and reboot you will lose program data but audio will be OK. Search this thread there is a detailed explanation.

No program data on 25.1 I have a Samsung 360.

Originally posted by herb s.
There is a work around for the audio problem on 4.1, go to setup menu and remove both primary and secondary zip codes and reboot you will lose program data but audio will be OK. Search this thread there is a detailed explanation.

No program data on 25.1 I have a Samsung 360.

I know, I posted it first when I called Samsung, sucks though, kinda miss the guide expecially that I traded it from a guy that lived in California and my guide times are PST...

Jim

Count me among those patiently waiting for Samsung to get their stuff together on this.

However, it wouldn't hurt if the local stations were a bit more consistent with sending guide info with the stream. Some do (4-1, 5-1, 7-1) and a some don't (2-*, 25-1).

Still frustrating now matter how you slice it.

-Steve

Originally posted by vfrjim
I know, I posted it first when I called Samsung, sucks though, kinda miss the guide expecially that I traded it from a guy that lived in California and my guide times are PST...

Jim


After you rescan you can reenter the zip code info and the guide data will reappear, and you should still have audio on 4.

SMK

I have tried that - did it again last night - doesn't work - my 360 loses tha audio again after rebooting.

I lost all signal for 38-1 Friday night, just in time to miss Enterprise. NAshua NH, with some mild terrain in between. Usually have good luck with 38 with just minor dropouts on occasion.

Using an LG LST-3410 recorder, and also tried my Samsung box to no avail.

Anyone else lost it (38-1, that is!)

Originally posted by jalferes
I have tried that - did it again last night - doesn't work - my 360 loses tha audio again after rebooting.

Mine too, but I have Two 160's and leave one with a zip code and one without, I will monitor it till it gets fixed and report back. I can deal with one without 4-1.

Jim

Note to Bill Holbrook...now receiving PSIP on both DTC-100 and WD62725.

When I was a kid, I heard that UHF frequencies had far more susceptibility to bad weather than the VHF frequencies.

After a month of watching OTA DTV, I wonder if it hasn't been a mistake of gargantuan proportions to put DTV in the UHF band.

My signals vary with the weather more than I can tolerate. The ATSC tuner's signal strength display in my Sharp LC-32GD4U sometimes shows stations like WGHB and WBZ at astonishingly high levels. But at other times, they dance around like VU meters measuring silences followed by screams. Nothing else (but the weather) changes.

I think the FCC may have killed OTA after the transition with the decision to use UHF for DTV.

Originally posted by Rick Zach
Please be advised that WCVB-DT will change its programming on digital channel 5.2. As of Saturday, January 29th at 12:01AM, WCVB will drop ABC NewsNow and will switch to the previous imaging of the live Doppler RADAR.

This is because ABC has chosen to offer ABC News now ONLY on the Internet.

Thanks for the info on the PSIP data. Let me know of any issues as we go into this Super Bowl week.

By the way only VHF channels 2-6 go away after the final transistion. 7-13 will be available for broadcasters to go to for their final assignment. As far as the transistion in some markets VHF DTV channels do exist. It depended on available channels. In most markets VHF was full and UHF was the only choice.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Originally posted by chitchatjf
This is because ABC has chosen to offer ABC News now ONLY on the Internet.

No they are going to be redoing there studio and hiring an new studio staff for the new ABC NOW HD due out in the Spring2005 but maybe only cable next time.

They are pulling it because they are going to try to make it a regular cable channel:

Variety.com- "The Walt Disney Co. is getting into the 24-hour cable news business. ABC News Now was initially launched as an experiment by ABC News, and the Alphabet is planning to relaunch the net with a business model based on advertising and subscription fees from cable and satellite operators..."

AVS articles LINK (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=500443)

Hello gang,

I am new to this forum (not AVS) and I know diddly about OTA HD broadcasting. Anyways, I want to get local channel HD content so I can connect to my new Infocus 4805 (i know it's EDTV, not HD, but I heard HD still looks phenomenal on it), however, I don't know how to do the OTA route. Someone suggested the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna as an option since the local tower is only 4-5 miles from Waltham, MA. Would this work?

Also, how do I get from the antenna to the projector? I have composite, s, component, and DVI input. If I want to directly connect the antenna to the projector, what do I need to allow me to connect and to control channels?

Thanks for your help!

In Waltham probably any old hunk of metal will work, I'd try an old UHF loop before I spent any money cause you're so close. Out in Westborough, I was able to get the big three with just a loop, though it did take a Silver Sensor to gte them reliably. As for connecting the antenna to the projector, you'll need an HDTV receiver. You can sometime find cheap ones like the Samsung SIR-T151 at Best Buy for about $100. Some people have also had success with the USDigital box from Walmart.

Bill,

Nice job on the programme info, just a minor quibble - ratings!

I notice you no longer have an RRT listed in the MGT. No Channel ETT either. Oooh! and aren't you supposed to be moving off of PID 0021?

Thanks for the programme info, it is much appreciated..

_Paul

Hi eco,

Thanks for the reply, very useful, I will check out the options! I figured this is a great place to ask. Is there anyone in the Boston area who can help a fellow audio/video enthusiast with setup of my projector (IF 4805)? I like the picture that it produces, but don't know if it's setup properly because some movies just don't look all that good, so I think it's a setup thing.

Thanks in advance!

Are people with Samsung receivers and DirecTV still experiencing problems with no audio on channels 4-1 and 5-2? I'm wondering what the ETA is on getting the problem fixed. I understand DirecTV and Samsung are working on it, but to me it seems like it's taken too long.

I've seen the workaround to get teh audio back, but I don't want to lose the onscreen guide. If I apply the workaround, will I lose the guide for all channels or just the locals?

Thanks.

Bryan

As far as the show ratings info, there is a known bug with the software that is being worked on with the PSIP vendor. They do not parse the data from the database server we use to populate the PSIP tables. Hopefully they will have it fixed shortly. The station Long form data (channel ETT)should be there now. We updated that today.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Originally posted by Bryan594
Are people with Samsung receivers and DirecTV still experiencing problems with no audio on channels 4-1 and 5-2? I'm wondering what the ETA is on getting the problem fixed. I understand DirecTV and Samsung are working on it, but to me it seems like it's taken too long.

I've seen the workaround to get teh audio back, but I don't want to lose the onscreen guide. If I apply the workaround, will I lose the guide for all channels or just the locals?

Thanks.

Bryan


If you apply the workaround you will lose all program guide data. I too am waiting for a fix along with many others.

Originally posted by Bryan594
Are people with Samsung receivers and DirecTV still experiencing problems with no audio on channels 4-1 and 5-2? I'm wondering what the ETA is on getting the problem fixed. I understand DirecTV and Samsung are working on it, but to me it seems like it's taken too long.

I've seen the workaround to get teh audio back, but I don't want to lose the onscreen guide. If I apply the workaround, will I lose the guide for all channels or just the locals?

Thanks.

Bryan

You will only lose the guide data on the local OTA channels.

Originally posted by Mike Emery
I lost all signal for 38-1 Friday night, just in time to miss Enterprise. NAshua NH, with some mild terrain in between. Usually have good luck with 38 with just minor dropouts on occasion.

Using an LG LST-3410 recorder, and also tried my Samsung box to no avail.

Anyone else lost it (38-1, that is!)

Last night (Tuesday) I had a repeat of the issue. Had adequate signal Monday with a good "lock" (signal level on the 3410 looked about 75%).

Tuesday evening (7-8 pm) was fluctuating between 30%-50% with constant pixelating and dropouts.

Anybody around here have issues as well?

I'd really like to be able to watch Enterprise in **HI-DEF** again!!!!!!

Did anyone notice quite a few audio drops during American Idol last night? Seemed like there were more of them early in the show.

No, but I'd think that'd be an improvement.

I saw some during House on Tuesday both OTA and via Charter. They seem to be more then just audio, because the Charter DVR (SA8000HD) ended up breaking up the episode into a lot of 2-3min bits. The same seems to have happened to 24 on Monday.

I have the Sony DirecTV box's SAT-HD100 and SAT-HD300. Watching 25,38,56 on the HD-300 Signal is weak "ususally" I could loose the audio/video but then turn on the HD-100 on the other TV and the signal and picture are fine. Both are using the same roof mounted antenna.

Originally posted by midfiman
Hello gang,

I am new to this forum (not AVS) and I know diddly about OTA HD broadcasting. Anyways, I want to get local channel HD content so I can connect to my new Infocus 4805 (i know it's EDTV, not HD, but I heard HD still looks phenomenal on it), however, I don't know how to do the OTA route. Someone suggested the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna as an option since the local tower is only 4-5 miles from Waltham, MA. Would this work?

Also, how do I get from the antenna to the projector? I have composite, s, component, and DVI input. If I want to directly connect the antenna to the projector, what do I need to allow me to connect and to control channels?

Thanks for your help!

I am using the under-$200 USDigital box from WallyWorld along with the InFocus X1, the ancestor of your 4805. It works very well, and I do get HD out of it via the VGA adapter at 720P. Looks fantastic. I only wish I was as close to the tower as you are, you could probably stick a paperclip in the attic and get as good a signal as I get in SW NH! Good luck.

Originally posted by ecopoesis
I saw some during House on Tuesday both OTA and via Charter. They seem to be more then just audio, because the Charter DVR (SA8000HD) ended up breaking up the episode into a lot of 2-3min bits. The same seems to have happened to 24 on Monday. The same thing's been happening to me (SA8000 via Adelphia). I thought it was my box.

Both Idol & 24 had the same problem...when I tried to record it and watch at the same time, it would record for a minute or two, then stop recording and the screen would go blank. When I cancelled recording, then changed channels, then went back, the picture & sound were back, but still breaking up from time to time.

Not that I care a whole lot about Idol (my wife does, though), but I'm concerned about the big game Sunday...Mr. Holbrook - any problems reported on your end?

Were these breakups only on the Network shows or are there any on the local programs as well? Also we did a small configuration change to the PSIP generator and MUX today, did you see any tonite?

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Were these breakups only on the Network shows or are there any on the local programs as well? Also we did a small configuration change to the PSIP generator and MUX today, did you see any tonite?

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT I had lost PSIP on my DTC-100 but now as of 12AM Friday, getting it on both DTC-100 and WD62725.

Originally posted by BHolbrook
Were these breakups only on the Network shows or are there any on the local programs as well? Also we did a small configuration change to the PSIP generator and MUX today, did you see any tonite?

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT Bill: Don't know about the local programming, but it just happened again at 8:18pm w/ Bernie Mac. There were many small audio drop-outs during the first 15 minutes, then the DVR stopped recording and the screen went black w/ no audio.

EDIT: Even without recording on the SA8000, experiencing many audio breakups. 8:30-8:35pm.

Less than 48 hours to go....

I've lost WFXT completely here in Raynham. Was a little spotty this morning with dropouts so I replaced my Terk indoor with a Silver Sensor. Still nothing. To make matters worse I'm getting no audio from WNAC in Providence. I hope I can get this sorted out by tomorrow.

I'm using a Zenith 520 with the above mentioned indoor antennas.

Is anyone else having trouble with Fox or is it just me?

Yes. I have good signal strength and program info is displayed but no audio/video. Was working OK earlier today. I suspect multipath and clear skies have trashed things as I have lost 38-DT as well, but it could be the station itself.

I wonder if anyone out there can report on getting a good signal from WFXT at this time?

I personally think that it's all voodoo.

At least it's not just me...

Hope it's cleared up by tomorrow.

No signal here in Harvard MA either. I am line of sight to the transmitter with a commercial LP antenna on a 120' tower on top of a hill. Antenna is 730' ASL.

I had not seen this thread but just found that I have no signal on 25 here in RI and 64 has no sound!

SMK

(ahem) Paging Bill Holbrook...

I think they are debugging a problem at the transmitter. I can partially decode a test pattern on WFXT 25.1 (channel 31).

no signal here Salisbury by the sea.

Worst comes to worst I have chan 88 on DirecTV :)

I wish I could get 89. I'm unfortunatley lumped into the Providence market so it's not an option for me.

Same here in NH no picture or sound, but have signal as STB is not giving me a searching for signal. At least I have ch. 88 on D* as backup.

Problem solved...25-1 back in service. No way would FOX25 screw up tomorrow!

Early this afternoon our older HD processor failed. (Thanks Murphy!) With the new mux and PSIP generator installed it was no longer needed. We had scheduled it to be removed from the stream after the Super Bowl (if it ain't broke don't fix it). This could have affected everyone so we had decided to delay its removal. Well wouldn't you know if failed today (at least not tomorrow). Once we found it we had to manually reconfigure our encoder recheck everything, work with Fox net to confirm the splicer was ok with the direct encoder output etc.

It has now been removed and everything seems ok but some more backup gear will be here first thing tomorrow just in case.

Any issues please post asap so I can address them.

I'm now trying to decide if its 2 or 3 years I lost on my life today!!!

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

Talk about cutting it close. Thanks Bill!

Thanks Bill, only issue which is minor, no program info, using Samsung 360 STB.

Bill:

Don't change a thing! I am finally getting FOX 25 on ch31-2! It is only the second time I have been able to get it in 4 years! Hope it comes in for the bowl game tomorrow.

Steve P

Spoke too soon -it's back in the mud.

Anyone not getting sound on Fox?
Dropping in and out on me. :(

Seems to be OK right now. I don't think FOX25 will drop the ball today (no pun intended).

I've got no OTA FXT-DT signal at all today here (in Maynard, MA.) It was fine yesterday, but today has been a solid "searching for signal" on my TS360.

It doesn't get picked up in a rescan, either, though all of the other OTA digital stations that I normall get are there (and look fine.)

I'm assuming from the lack of activity on this thread that this is not a general problem?

-jim berry

We did have a momentary audio drop out from the Network. It was on analog and digital. Fox network said it was on their end. We are constantly monitoring the HD feed so hopefully no problems like yesterday.

Bill Holbrook
Chief Engineer WFXT

So I have to assume it's something on my end.

Does anyone know off-hand how to do a factory reset of a TS360? The manual is a little sparse with regard to, well, pretty much everything :-)

-jim

Bill, WFXT-DT is stuttering here over Comcast. I really hope it doesn't do this during the game.

What's going on with WFXT-DT? Getting audio drops both OTA via the SIR-T151 and with the SA8000HD via Charter. The Samsung justs loses audio and won't get it back until you change channels. The SciAtl loses video and audio momentarily, and then resyncs. Any chance this is going to not happen during the game?

Just checked and not seeing or hearing any A/V problems on 25-1 OTA.

Originally posted by ecopoesis
What's going on with WFXT-DT? The SciAtl loses video and audio momentarily, and then resyncs.

my 3250HD is doing the same on charter-pepperell at this time as well

Charter is doing the same thing and it is plugged right into the back of my Mitsu WD52525 TV. The audio also jumps about 2x in volume when the local channel takes over the commercials. :rolleyes:

Everything is fine with the OTA signal.

Major problems in Chester, NH. Video is extremely blocky and audio is rare. Everything was perfect two weekds ago during the play-off game. The weather is perfect, so WTF?

Absolutely no signal from WFXT whatsoever at this location. Have tried rescan a few times, no soap. No RF, no A/V, no nothing. Have good signal on the analog channel.

Probably atmospheric conditions, since I am getting WNAC DT just fine at this point, so am watching that instead.

Good thing I have a choice! Murphy's alive and well... ;)

The signal strength at the start of the game was in the low 40's. Now at the end of the 1st quarter it's down in the mid 20's and no reception at all. Thanks, WFXT, for totally f***ing up. I just new this was going to happen. Can't wait to see how they screw up the Daytona 500.

Originally posted by woodworm
The signal strength at the start of the game was in the low 40's. Now at the end of the 1st quarter it's down in the mid 20's and no reception at all. Thanks, WFXT, for totally f***ing up. I just new this was going to happen. Can't wait to see how they screw up the Daytona 500.

Pretty frickin' harsh condemnation of WFXT, don't ya think? I'm here in Pepperell, 8-bay bowtie in the attic with Channel Master amp and the broadcast has been flawless so far.

Now, at 7-7, I hope the Pats pull it together and play a stellar 30 minutes of football to pull this one out!

Go PATS!

Dan W.

Originally posted by woodworm
The signal strength at the start of the game was in the low 40's. Now at the end of the 1st quarter it's down in the mid 20's and no reception at all. Thanks, WFXT, for totally f***ing up. I just new this was going to happen. Can't wait to see how they screw up the Daytona 500.

Why would it be FOX fault if everyone is getting it great. Could be a weather condition between your location and Boston, why not try the Fox in Maine.

WFXT coming in perfect and also WNAC. WTIC 25-50% at times but that's just in case the first 2 station catch on fire or crash like yesterday.

Also getting audio dropouts on 25-1 in Nashua NH, both with OTA and QAM (Comcast.)

Signal strength has been low lately too, but 38-1 has been bad also.

Hmm. Maybe it wasn't on my end...

OTA FXT just showed up.

Cool.

-jim

This is a on-going issue with WFXT. Up, down, up, down. It is the only HD channel that has this issue. I have a static antenna situation that has not changed since in the fall and have had OTA HD for 3 years. I have watched two, consecutive play-off games in HD from WFXT without a hitch and signals in the low 60s, plenty good for digital reception. This is a clear, quite night that is about 30 degrees warmer than it has been. You guys that are getting a good signal and think alll is well, start watching the locations of those who have trouble. You start to see a pattern real soon. I wish I could pull in Maine but northeast is not an option for me. This is very frustrating to say the least. I don't blame FOX, just the local FOX affiliate.

wormwood,

So, you agree it's not a common, global issue, yet you blame the local affiliate, WFXT? WTF? The laws of physics are a bitch for WFXT to overcome, obviously they just aren't trying hard enough...

DW

Okay, wise asses. They just came up. Signal is up to 65-70, beautiful HD video and audio is great. Thanks WFXT!

Stick around kids, you may learn something.

So, I'm a wise ass? And a kid? Riiight. Been here longer than you, just haven't necessarily felt the need to post, but tonight I'm in a rare mood.

Enjoying my HD in MA,

Dan W.

Without casting aspersions in *any*direction, I have observed that ALL of my DT stations have been suffering tonight, varying wildly in terms of signal strength. Had WNAC earlier, but that's gone now. Still no WFXT, but I have also lost WBZ, WCVB, and now have even lost WHDH, which is almost always flawless from here. I just did a rescan, and went from 18 channels to 6! No change to the antenna, electronics, or feedline during that time, everything is 100% stationary.

Seems like the clearer the night, the worse it gets, which leads me to believe that clearer weather leads to stronger multipath, which is most likely the culprit with all of that wavering. The signals are just canceling out one another. If I had a spectrum analyzer, I'd be willing to bet that would prove to be the case. Most of the time, I get better signal consistency from Boston when it's cloudy (and even snowing), although I do lose Providence in that case.

The only hope for us in the fringes lies with better antenna and receiver technology, or maybe even translators at some future time. Otherwise, if HD is going to depend on the quirky behavior of RF above 450MHz for OTA broadcasts, those of us outside the urban/suburban area are going to wind up as non-audiences.

Just my $.02

Fox HD just disappeared on Charter in Worcester. Had to switch to SD DirecTV.

Fox 25, thanks for nothing, damm I thought you guys would be better then fox 64 and theirs had no problems at all, at least you could have messed it up at half-time and not at the end of the game where it counts.

I was able, finally , to pick up the superbowl in HD with WFXT in the 3rd quarter and watched in HD all the way through the post-game show on the local WFXT post-game show. Really supper picture and sound while available. Now, here at 11:15 p.m. , the signal is gone again.

I believe WFXT is operating at the maximum power allowed it by the FCC. I had no problem this evening from wire to wire. Some of you unfortunately are just out of acceptable range to get a consistent signal. Can't blame FXT for that.

That's kewl, Benji. I can't for the life of me figure out why I can receive a terrific HD program, week after week, and then get nadda. Oh, but half way through the superbowl. suddenly it's majic for 3 f***ing hours. No offense to anyone. Unless u push buttons.

Originally posted by Benji
I believe WFXT is operating at the maximum power allowed it by the FCC. I had no problem this evening from wire to wire. Some of you unfortunately are just out of acceptable range to get a consistent signal. Can't blame FXT for that.


It was not signal level, I had plenty, it was an equiptment problem on thier behalf I am guessing, it just started to go crazy and then a BLANK screen. A few minutes later it was back to normal.

Originally posted by vfrjim
It was not signal level, I had plenty, it was an equiptment problem on thier behalf I am guessing, it just started to go crazy and then a BLANK screen. A few minutes later it was back to normal.

If they had equipment problems, EVERY viewer who was trying to watch it in HD OTA would have had problems. Other than (IIRC) 3 very brief audio blips and a couple of very minor video blips, we had perfect reception of the game at my home in Billerica (antenna in the attic). Given that at least some of us received it with no problems, those who had problems had to have had reception related problems on their end - otherwise none of us would have had much luck.

Sorry some of you had problems - they did a pretty good job overall, though I'd prefer it if they didn't try to get so "cute" with all the ongoing introductions that interfere with one's ability to know where the ball is at and who's coming on and leaving the field between plays.

The half time show was hands down the very best I recall seeing by far. Not because of who the performer was (which was good), but because they picked ONE performer, went with it, and didn't go overboard with making a production out of it. Hopefully this is the start of a trend.

Oh and the cat spilling the pasta sauce commercial had us ROTFLOAO.

Originally posted by Benji
...Some of you unfortunately are just out of acceptable range to get a consistent signal. Can't blame FXT for that.

I certainly don't blame WFXT (especially Bill!) for that, but I do blame the overall concept and structure of the technology imposed by the Feds (and others). If I am within "acceptable range" for receiving WFXT analog on UHF 25, then the HD transmission SHOULD be a 1-for-1 swap, and I should still be in "acceptable range". Same goes for WBZ, WCVB, WGBH, WHDH, WSBK, etc., etc. For more than 50 years we in my area have been in the Boston TV market, and when the changeover to DT is complete, we apparently will not be in the market anymore - at least not OTA. This gives the cable guys and dish people a very warm cheerful feeling, by the way.

This was not the way this technology was supposed to go, but it's the way it's going.

Optimal terrain and atmospheric conditions are critical factors in OTA reception beyond 450 MHz, and while the 25, 38, 44 and 56 analog signals may be acceptable and watchable with a little multipath, the DT signals are not so forgiving. Last night was a prime example of this, and unless we find ways to make the technology more reliable, folks like me who live 52 airline miles from Needham and have big hills in the neighborhood are going to be out in the cold.

FWIW, some interesting data on multipath and antenna designs at this URL (I have no affiliation with the author or his business):

http://www.atechfabrication.com/tests/02-15-02_antenna_stacking_test.htm

And hey - even though I had to watch the end of the game on WFXT analog (which looked great last night), at least we got to watch our guys WIN!

Cheers,

WFXT was flawless here from pregame to postgame.

The digital scheme in the United States can be quite sensitive to ghosts. If you see ghosts on analog channels, you probably have some work to do on your antenna and cable to the antenna. Even a strong signal is no guarantee of reception.

If you do have a strong signal, but spotty reception, a simple thing you can try is an attenuator from Radio Shack placed at the TV. In bad cases, you might even use one at the antenna, and one at the TV. These attenuators will absorb reflections on the transmission line between the antenna and TV. Reflections show up on analog channels as ghosts.

Ken -

Thanks for simplfying my windy observations. Multipath = reflections. However, an attenuator attenuates everything, and if the multipath (reflection) is nearly as strong as the main signal and you attenuate the line to eliminate the multipath, you also eliminate a corresponding amount of the main signal. A passive attenuator doesn't know the difference between one signal and the next at a given frequency. If that results in a signal below the usable level, that's the end of the story.

But, the real point of my diatribe is that the OTA scheme itself is technologically flawed in concept, and should never have happened without a full understanding of its effects on the audience. We're exchanging a outdated, mediocre technology (NTSC) that is nonetheless reliable and robust for one that is superior in picture and sound quality (ATSC) but far less reliable and prone to catastrophic failure under less-than-perfect conditions. And worse yet, they throw it into a portion of the RF spectrum that compounds the problem with its own set of issues.

That's my complaint, but that horse is long ago out of the barn. So, unless we live within 25-30 miles of the transmitter and have a line-of-sight shot to the tower, we'll be stuck with spotty service until the antennas and receivers improve to compensate for the built-in problems.

PHiloT....Well said

You are right, of course, about multi-path. The attenuator suggestion is just in case you have a poor impedance match at the TV and antenna, which is not uncommon. The anttnuator is cheap and easy experiment, not a cure all.

The next steps are not things most people want to do. Here is a shopping list.

1. Get the antenna high and in the clear with a pole or tower
2. Get a high gain antenna with a clean pattern. You will need to rotate the antenna if you want more than the stations in Needham, MA
3. Individual high performance yagi antennas for each station you want to receive.
4. Does FXT broacast circular polarization? If so, the big winner is a circularly polarized yagi antenna. This will kill the first reflection and a lot of multipath, but not all.
5. If you are behind a hill, switch to satellite and live with the over compressed signal.

The Sinclair Group put up quite a stink about the digital modulation scheme about five years ago. They asserted that the proposed (current) system was not robust against ghosts. They even funded to a study to demonstrate this. For reasons political and technical, they lost and we have the current system.

I do understand the issues with multipath. I'm not convinced that that is the problem here. Using the information from antennaweb.org, all of the towers for the major network affiliates are within 2 degrees and 1 mile of each other relative to my position. I see this up, down, in, out behavior ONLY with WFXT and this is the first time I have seen this during a major broadcast. I have checked the signal on this channel on various nights of the week and as far as I can remember the WFXT signal is very week except when there is a major broadcast in progress.

I realize that none of this is proof of anything. But it is interesting that mostly those who live in a somewhat narrow path from the tower location towards Boston seem to have uncompromised reception from WFXT. Perhaps they use a broadcast antenna of a different design, I don't know.

Funny, I was just going to ask about the polarization of the WFXT antenna. Perhaps Bill H. can reply to this once he's recovered from this weekend's labors.

I am also planning to run some experiments (in my spare time - ha, ha) with a pair of cophased low-cost yagis in a horizontal array to see how well they work to attenuate the multipath. The theory goes that the main signal will be reinforced by the pair, while multipath coming in at an angle will strike each antenna differently, improving the ratio somewhat. The trick is to get the horizontal spacing right and still be able to turn the thing in a reasonable space. We'll see...

I'm not generally a big fan of Sinclair, but it is too bad they lost that particular fight. We lost too, and the cell phone companies won.

25-1 was fine with no problems throughout the game. But during the postgame show the signal just disappeared, had to switch to 88 on D*. I have never had a problem receiving 25-1 in the past even when they were running at low power this past summer. Would have to blame this one on the atmosphere.

Originally posted by herb s.
25-1 was fine with no problems throughout the game. But during the postgame show the signal just disappeared, had to switch to 88 on D*. I have never had a problem receiving 25-1 in the past even when they were running at low power this past summer. Would have to blame this one on the atmosphere.

FOX HD disappeared on Charter cable, too, at the same time. At least they waited til after the game was over!

Where are you, Herb. I'm in Chester.

I do think the FOX network was having a few issues as well. I was recording the game from my satellite feed and there where some drop-outs there.

Just did a search on the the FCC CDBS Public Access Link site (http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/cdbs_pa.htm).

WFXT has two DT antennas listed, from the FCC engineering data. Not sure which one they are using, but it looks like probably the Andrews antenna with elliptical polarization since that one's listed at 1000kw as opposed to the Shively (HP) at 78kw. If it is the Andrews, it does have some directional characteristics, according to the data given.

More grist for the mill.

God, I love hanging out around nerds.

I resemble that remark. ;)

Originally posted by woodworm
Where are you, Herb. I'm in Chester.

I do think the FOX network was having a few issues as well. I was recording the game from my satellite feed and there where some drop-outs there.

I'm in Kingston, I did not see any dropouts until the signal did its diappearing act.

Thanks for the link and the research, PhiloT. I think you've hit upon the real issue here. It is unfortunate that the link does not provide information on the WBZ antenna and it is a little fuzzy on the WCVB antenna but it does look like there could be proof that WFXT is using a more directional antenna than the others. This would explain why some of us have issues from time to time with WFXT.

So the next questions are: Does WFXT use both antenna? If so, is there any correlation between which one is radiating to when some of us have reception issues?

It also appears to me that, at least in my case, a stronger gain amplifier on my antenna could solve this issue. I suppose there is only one way to find out.