Same here in Westport. Working fine.

Watching it right now; no problem using my three inch antenna connected to my laptop tuner.

Update on WFXT:

Yes we did in fact have a major issue with our aging analog antenna. In a storm in late October we had a burnout at the base of the antenna at 1200 feet up the tower. We made repairs and were able to get back on with reduced power. We applied for an STA to operate through the transistion date at reduced power and were granted that STA. However in mid-December the issue worsened and we have had to reduce power even more. So we are recommending viewers to make their transistion to DTV early. A decision may be made soon to cease all analog operations and begin construction of our post-transistion DTV facility early.

It has been interesting dealing with issues from viewers concerning converter boxes, channel scanning, poor antennas etc. All things broadcasters will be dealing with all across the country come Feb 18. On a humorous note, that YouTube DTV setup video is closer to the mark than not. We actually had a viewer try to enter 25.1 on her telephone while we talked her through setting up her converter box.

I will try to keep this updated as we proceed.

Bill Holbrook

Chief Engineer WFXT

I wonder if Bill himself gets to climb the tower to fix antenna issues like this?
That's gotta make for an exciting day at work!

I'd prefer that WFXT just pull the plug on their analog transmitter and bump their digital TX up to full power sooner, not later. But the way advertising revenues work, that's not likely to happen. Realistically, all the smart folks with a few bucks have already switched to digital somehow. Those remaining on OTA analog at this point are not an advertiser's dream market, am I right?

I wonder if Bill himself gets to climb the tower to fix antenna issues like this?
That's gotta make for an exciting day at work!


It is exciting! At WVEC TV/DT channel 13 in Norfolk, VA where I worked prior to retiring, we had an elevator to go up the tower. The weather is a lot different at 1,200 feet up than it is at ground level. Often colder, and the wind is never calm.

My hat is off to Bill Holbrook and his staff. Their job isn't an easy one!

By the way, MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone!

I wonder if Bill himself gets to climb the tower to fix antenna issues like this?
That's gotta make for an exciting day at work!

I'd prefer that WFXT just pull the plug on their analog transmitter and bump their digital TX up to full power sooner, not later. But the way advertising revenues work, that's not likely to happen. Realistically, all the smart folks with a few bucks have already switched to digital somehow. Those remaining on OTA analog at this point are not an advertiser's dream market, am I right?

I agree,Beef up the Digital signal NOW:D
its tough for me get during the day

Update on WFXT:

Yes we did in fact have a major issue with our aging analog antenna. In a storm in late October we had a burnout at the base of the antenna at 1200 feet up the tower. We made repairs and were able to get back on with reduced power. We applied for an STA to operate through the transistion date at reduced power and were granted that STA. However in mid-December the issue worsened and we have had to reduce power even more. So we are recommending viewers to make their transistion to DTV early. A decision may be made soon to cease all analog operations and begin construction of our post-transistion DTV facility early.

It has been interesting dealing with issues from viewers concerning converter boxes, channel scanning, poor antennas etc. All things broadcasters will be dealing with all across the country come Feb 18. On a humorous note, that YouTube DTV setup video is closer to the mark than not. We actually had a viewer try to enter 25.1 on her telephone while we talked her through setting up her converter box.

I will try to keep this updated as we proceed.

Bill Holbrook

Chief Engineer WFXT

So no FOX in NH then.

Maybe I am just missing the reason, but why can't you increase the power on the digital transmitter?

I suspect that the FCC has something to say about that.

Actually there is a technical reason. The antenna and transmission line we are currently broadcasting DTV on were speced with the 78KW EIRP limit we were under when the license was granted. They can not handle the power increase. We are installing an entirely new antenna and transmission line on the tower but have to remove the analog gear first. This is a major construction project that requires a lot of coordination. Hopefully we get lucky with weather and other issues and complete the work asap.

Also thanks for the kind words.

Actually there is a technical reason. The antenna and transmission line we are currently broadcasting DTV on were speced with the 78KW EIRP limit we were under when the license was granted. They can not handle the power increase. We are installing an entirely new antenna and transmission line on the tower but have to remove the analog gear first. This is a major construction project that requires a lot of coordination. Hopefully we get lucky with weather and other issues and complete the work asap.

Also thanks for the kind words.

Bill, who are you using for a tower crew?

WHDH 7-2 NOW SD SIMULCAST
MSNBC WX+ now gone
we have have a 480i strected version sd broadcast

I seem to remember reading that the NBC weather channel was going to go away at some point.... it was effectively competition for TWC, which is a pay service that NBC/U offers. No sense in offering a free service that competes with your own pay service.

This is a good thing for TiVo owners: Recordings from 7-2 will take up a fraction of hard disk space that recordings from 7-1 take up.

What I find a little strange, this morning, is that 7-1 (which is showing up as 1080i) is pretty fuzzy and washed out. 7-2 (which is showing up as 480i) is also a bit fuzzy, but isn't quite so washed out.

I imagine it's only temporary and some other service will replace it. I know of at least one NBC station that had to wait for delivery of extra equipment to launch their replacement programming, so it continued airing the national feed of Weather Plus for an extra few weeks.

- Trip

What kind of replacement programming are you expecting?

I don't know. In Texas, one station picked up Mexicanal, but that's not going to be available in the northeast I don't think. A few Cox-owned stations picked up RTN. The biggest gainer, however, was MGM's "This TV."

I'm not sure just what WHDH will do though, since Sunbeam's only other station is a Fox station in Miami which doesn't have any unique programming on their subchannel besides Weather, and since WHDH has canned the weather they had, who knows what they'll do instead.

- Trip

I read one article online that NBC is pushing for it's Universal Sports sub-channel to replace the Weather Plus by offering it free for the first year if the local gets it on cable. It's currently a waste of bandwidth in my opinion.. nothing good on it. Alot of Olympic reruns(the Hartford NBC owned station broadcast it).

I'd love to see something like NECN and/or NESN as a sub-channel network on the local stations in New England. I would think NESN has the money to do something like this, I doubt if NECN has the funds but Hearst-Argyle already owns 3 stations in New England that could air it. I think the other owner of NECN, Comcast, would have issue with allowing it.

A few new sub-channel networks look interesting, like the .2 (dot 2) http://www.dot2network.com

.2 has pushed its launch back twice, as far as I'm concerned, it's vaporware until proven otherwise.

But I agree, there are a number of interesting subchannels out there now. I'm anxiously awaiting an affiliate of This TV in my area (Roanoke VA), but who knows when it will be coming.

- Trip

NESN is a big draw for cable. It would be a pretty bad decision, from the standpoint of its owners, to make it available OTA.

NECN would make a bit more sense. It isn't a big draw to cable, and providing it OTA could draw folks to cable, which benefits it owners.

I hear you on NESN, but it would be nice if they would get the games back to OTA broadcasters. Doesn't mean it has to be in HD either, they could be in SD on the subchannel and HD only for cable/dish. Which would keep the cable/dish happy. I think the local broadcasters would be also, seeing the SD signal uses less bandwidth. Then NESN could make more money with additional advertising fees.

Seeing I canceled cable as of this week after they planned to charge $45 for Limited Basic, which is the local stations in analog. I'll miss the red sox games which was on clear QAM on cable (and Celtics).

But, I am debating trying the Dish Network TurboHD and using my antenna for the local HD. It gives me the 'cable' networks I want in HD and not the price cable over charges. I know the signal is compressed more for dish vs. cable. But it's really tempting. Heck, the Bronze package is almost half the limited basic cable price.

Has anyone seen a review on Dish Network's TurboHD?

.2 has pushed its launch back twice, as far as I'm concerned, it's vaporware until proven otherwise.

But I agree, there are a number of interesting subchannels out there now. I'm anxiously awaiting an affiliate of This TV in my area (Roanoke VA), but who knows when it will be coming.

- Trip

This TV looks interesting also.
ION seems to be creating a line-up similar to PBS, but I don't have a ION station to check it out(Can't receive 68 out here in Brimfield,ma).

It will be very interesting to see what happens with the sub-channel offerings. But will the local stations have the money to fund the sub-channels?

I hear you on NESN, but it would be nice if they would get the games back to OTA broadcasters.Short of plastering Ernie Boch's name on the front of the jerseys, I don't see a path to that, especially given how much people are marginalizing the value of their own eyes (by ignoring, bypassing, or otherwise not making purchasing decisions on the basis of commercial advertising).

Doesn't mean it has to be in HD either, they could be in SD on the subchannel and HD only for cable/dish. Which would keep the cable/dish happy.I wouldn't be so sure. Besides, that would just give folks something else to complain about! :D

Seeing I canceled cable as of this week after they planned to charge $45 for Limited Basic, which is the local stations in analog.They're still charging less than $20 for limited basic here. They're charging about $45 for family basic.

Hey bicker1 and anyone else in the Burlington area,

I just moved to Burlington, actually the Woburn/Burlington line and am high up in a apartment tower (so indoor antenna). Unfortunately, I am facing east, but would you have any suggestions for picking up WFXT. I can pull in WGBH, WHDH, WBZ, and WCVB just fine with my Zenith Silver Sensor (unamped and UHF only). I know WFXT is having broadcast issues right now, but from what I have gathered it is just the analog not the digital. If i'm wrong let me know and I'll just assume this is a temporary issue.

In general, what do people feel is the current best VHF & UHF antenna for indoor use. I presume some of these broadcasts will take over the VHF space after February so I'll need to replace the old Zenith Silver Sensor.

Hey bicker1 and anyone else in the Burlington area, I just moved to Burlington, actually the Woburn/Burlington line and am high up in a apartment towerI see you! :) (Seriously, I suspect I can see your tower from my property.)

(so indoor antenna). Unfortunately, I am facing east, but would you have any suggestions for picking up WFXT.Hmmm... I have trouble with WFXT-DT with my amplified Terk-HDTVa antenna, pointed at the south-west sidewall of the house (no window). I notice much fewer problems with my Philips anntenna pointed out the window on the east side of my house. Dunno what to tell you; I think it could be a difference in the tuners.

I know WFXT is having broadcast issues right now, but from what I have gathered it is just the analog not the digital. If i'm wrong let me know and I'll just assume this is a temporary issue.I'm pretty sure that they're waiting for the go-ahead to increase their power-output on their digital channel. So things will likely still get better.

In general, what do people feel is the current best VHF & UHF antenna for indoor use. I presume some of these broadcasts will take over the VHF space after February so I'll need to replace the old Zenith Silver Sensor.The only channel heading back to VHF in our area is WHDH, and that's going to be Channel 7, so I'm hopeful that my Terk-HDTVa will still do a good enough job. However, I may have to extend the rabbit ears, which up until now have been unextended.

WHDH 7-2 NOW SD SIMULCAST
MSNBC WX+ now gone
we have have a 480i strected version sd broadcast

I'm upset about this, if it is true, that the weather channel will not return.

I enjoy all of the additional content on the digital sub channels.

I'm also upset that unless you watch TV with a laptop near by - as I do - you can not see the digital sub channels on any of the listings in the local papers (metro west daily news or Boston Globe).

If this proves true - I'd like to write some letters (emails) to the appropriate parties.

By the way... I've checked the 7-2 signal a couple of times today. It is not stretched. I have no idea how Jimmy's television is configured, but that's not what we're receiving here in Burlington.

By the way... I've checked the 7-2 signal a couple of times today. It is not stretched. I have no idea how Jimmy's television is configured, but that's not what we're receiving here in Burlington.

I"m sorry i meant 480I 16:9widescreen(i call it stretched)It looks better at 4:3 when i change it
my tv is set to OAR
I did look Fuzzy for a while yesterday as another poster had stated its clear now

So you stretched it, on your television. That makes sense. They didn't stretch it.

.

The only channel heading back to VHF in our area is WHDH, and that's going to be Channel 7, so I'm hopeful that my Terk-HDTVa will still do a good enough job. However, I may have to extend the rabbit ears, which up until now have been unextended.

I'm a little north of you so i also get channels 9 and 11. They intend on moving to VHF as well. Could get WMUR-HD for awhile on antenna and Comcast Ch 809 (Fios does not have it yet though i expect some programming on ch 509 soon) but could not get WENH-DT

Okay -- I was just talking about Boston channels.

Okay -- I was just talking about Boston channels.

Actually WWDP (Ch 46 (72 or 96 on comcast,not carried on Fios) will move to channel 10.

I don't get this...wouldn't a tv just downgrade the signal of hdtv...

at least the weather was on most of the time and it had commericals to boot.

it might not have been exciting but it served a good purpose rather than waiting for the weatherchannel on cable to say something...

I don't get this...wouldn't a tv just downgrade the signal of hdtv...What do you mean?

at least the weather was on most of the time and it had commericals to boot.But having it on free television reduced the appeal of cable television a little bit.

Despite having Weather channel,Weatherscan and Weather channel HD! I still liked Ch 460 (I mean 7.2) :)

Does anyone know if anything has changed with WGBX analog 44?

In Andover the Comcast analog for 44 has almost no signal, but we also have one digital cable box, and that same channel is perfect. I assume Comcast is sending the digital of 44 to the digital box, and the boxless TV has the low level analog signal.

The switch is not supposed to affect cable by requiring a box....

Everything is fine with my Zenith DTT901.

Paul

Separate from the OTA change to all-digital, Comcast (and most other cable providers) is doing a similar switch to all-digital.It has nothing to do with the Feb. switch, but the cable companies are using the confusion to push their own agenda, as well.

It is my understanding that all Comcast systems are making this switch. If you call them and complain, I hear that they will offer you a free digital (non-HD) cable box...but only for 1 year...then you have to pay for it. When they started this in Boston, I relaized that my billl was going up about 25-30% with the addition of an increase and the need to pay for boxes (both of my TVs were box-less for years). I dropped them for all but cable modem service. I get the networks, 90% of what I watched anyway, in OTA HD for free since I face west.

It's very convenient that they are able to turn all of those free no-box TVs into paying a monthly fee for a box...where are our legislators on this? Why can I not purchase a box like the satellite providers and then they enable the programming?

Does anyone know if anything has changed with WGBX analog 44?

In Andover the Comcast analog for 44 has almost no signal, but we also have one digital cable box, and that same channel is perfect. I assume Comcast is sending the digital of 44 to the digital box, and the boxless TV has the low level analog signal.

The switch is not supposed to affect cable by requiring a box....

Everything is fine with my Zenith DTT901.

Paul

Why can I not purchase a box like the satellite providers and then they enable the programming?
In most cases, DirecTV boxes are not owned by the customer and all but the first box cost the customer $5 a month in "mirroring" fees. I'm not sure how Dish network works.

It is my understanding that all Comcast systems are making this switch. If you call them and complain, I hear that they will offer you a free digital (non-HD) cable box...but only for 1 year...then you have to pay for it.

That would mean that all content to boxless TVs would stop next month. I do not think that is the case, as I know someone who was hooked up to Comcast recently, and was not offered any boxes.

Separate from the OTA change to all-digital, Comcast (and most other cable providers) is doing a similar switch to all-digital.It has nothing to do with the Feb. switch, but the cable companies are using the confusion to push their own agenda, as well.As far as I know, this shall not affect any OTA channels, such as WGBX 44.

It's very convenient that they are able to turn all of those free no-box TVs into paying a monthly fee for a box...where are our legislators on this?Sometimes providing incentive for MSOs to go all-digital. There are competing interests among us consumers: Some, like you, want continuation of analog service. Others want more digital service. Legislators must balance all the competing interests.

I'm currently making the point in several other thread how people, like you, are upset about the progression of digital technology in the cable arena, yet some of the strongest HD enthusiasts here on avsforum.com deny you exist.

That would mean that all content to boxless TVs would stop next month. I do not think that is the caseYou would be correct. In our area, at least, nothing is changing with regard to what channels can be received by Comcast subscribers next month.

Separate from the OTA change to all-digital, Comcast (and most other cable providers) is doing a similar switch to all-digital.It has nothing to do with the Feb. switch, but the cable companies are using the confusion to push their own agenda, as well.

It is my understanding that all Comcast systems are making this switch. If you call them and complain, I hear that they will offer you a free digital (non-HD) cable box...but only for 1 year...then you have to pay for it. When they started this in Boston, I relaized that my billl was going up about 25-30% with the addition of an increase and the need to pay for boxes (both of my TVs were box-less for years). I dropped them for all but cable modem service. I get the networks, 90% of what I watched anyway, in OTA HD for free since I face west.

It's very convenient that they are able to turn all of those free no-box TVs into paying a monthly fee for a box...where are our legislators on this? Why can I not purchase a box like the satellite providers and then they enable the programming?

I have basic Comcast service in Needham, which is just the OTA channels and a few others, like a local Needham channel and shopping channels. Those channels are available in digital, using unscrambled QAM. I have a pcHDTV card in my linux machine which I can use to view or record them, and at least some HDTV tuners and recorders can do QAM as well as the OTA 8VSB modulation. I'd guess Comcast is scrambling all their other channels, so that you'd either need one of their boxes or something which can use a CableCard, which I believe you'd also have to rent.

Does anyone know if anything has changed with WGBX analog 44?

Paul44 analog OTA is at low power until they go off the air. So is analog 11. Not sure about analog 2.

Does anyone know if anything has changed with WGBX analog 44?

PaulPS
You may want to look into getting an OTA converter box. Search DTVPal for a $40 + tax and shipping. Very cheap when you use the $40 coupon. An simple indoor antenna works in Tewksbury. 44.1, 44.2, 44.3, 44.4, 2.1 come in great as well as all the other locals. But 11.1 breaks up sometimes. I expect 11.1 will be better when they switch form rf 57 to rf 11 when analog 11 goes off the air

... I dropped them for all but cable modem service. I get the networks, 90% of what I watched anyway, in OTA HD for free since I face west. ...Danhvos,

We are getting a little off topic because this is an OTA thread, but. Are you saying that Comcast in your area no longer offers any analog? They are still offering analog basic (mostly local stations) in my area. They charge less then $12.00 for it but give a $15 discount with internet cable. So it is more then FREE.

They also still have analog extended basic which are channels like CNN, History, and so on. But it is my understanding that new costumers can no longer get analog extended basic, they must have digital cable. So for, old customers can still keep analog extended basic.

I agree that this is getting off topic.

So I will try to address the various posts which commented after mine all in one...

1. Re: "In most cases, DirecTV boxes are not owned by the customer " - This may be correct that most are not owned, but a consumer can buy a box and purchase service from the company. Dish Network and DirecTV both offer it. It's the consumer's choice.

2. Re: "That would mean that all content to boxless TVs would stop next month" - That is not what I said. Channels have been disappearing from analog service in most locales as they move them from the analog tier to digital only. The drop-dead date for analog service (besides local broadcast stattions) is up to the cable provider. However, every locale is different due to the individual contract negotiations in each town.
According to Wikipedia, cable operators must carry BOTH analog and digital channels until either they drop all analog service or February 2012, whichever comes first. So, if they go all digital sooner, they can start collecting box rental fees from all of those non-box TVs. Cable operators are required to carry the digital (HDTV) versions of local broadcasters.

3. Re: "There are competing interests among us consumers" - I am not stating that I want to keep analog indefinitely, I am opposed to the cable operators using it as an opportunity to gouge the consumer. IMHO, I believe that upgrading their equipment is an ongoing cost of running a business. They are using it to impose more box rental fees everywhere that they can and still forcing you to pick from more expensive packages rather than the individual channels that I want...and all this new technology should be capable of handling.

4. Re: "We are getting a little off topic " - Anything that you want from Comcast (at least in my area) besides Analog basic (local broadcast channels only) now requires rental of a box for each TV (yes you can use DVRs to minimize the boxes, but that is another topic altogether).

I agree that this is getting off topic.

So I will try to address the various posts which commented after mine all in one...

1. Re: "In most cases, DirecTV boxes are not owned by the customer " - This may be correct that most are not owned, but a consumer can buy a box and purchase service from the company. Dish Network and DirecTV both offer it. It's the consumer's choice.

2. Re: "That would mean that all content to boxless TVs would stop next month" - That is not what I said. Channels have been disappearing from analog service in most locales as they move them from the analog tier to digital only. The drop-dead date for analog service (besides local broadcast stattions) is up to the cable provider. However, every locale is different due to the individual contract negotiations in each town.
According to Wikipedia, cable operators must carry BOTH analog and digital channels until either they drop all analog service or February 2012, whichever comes first. So, if they go all digital sooner, they can start collecting box rental fees from all of those non-box TVs. Cable operators are required to carry the digital (HDTV) versions of local broadcasters.

3. Re: "There are competing interests among us consumers" - I am not stating that I want to keep analog indefinitely, I am opposed to the cable operators using it as an opportunity to gouge the consumer. IMHO, I believe that upgrading their equipment is an ongoing cost of running a business. They are using it to impose more box rental fees everywhere that they can and still forcing you to pick from more expensive packages rather than the individual channels that I want...and all this new technology should be capable of handling.

4. Re: "We are getting a little off topic " - Anything that you want from Comcast (at least in my area) besides Analog basic (local broadcast channels only) now requires rental of a box for each TV (yes you can use DVRs to minimize the boxes, but that is another topic altogether).

I'm suprised bicker didn't bring up the DTAs that comcast are now using. These are low or no cost to the customer, they are not addressable so no on demand with them. In areas where comcast is moving expanded basic to digital they are offering each customer several of these devices for free.

-Ken

You would be correct. In our area, at least, nothing is changing with regard to what channels can be received by Comcast subscribers next month.

My uncle was told by Comcast today that within three years, everyone will need a box for all TVs.

What probably happened is that someone who works for Comcast said something to your uncle that your uncle interpreted as you relayed. Big difference.

It could happen, but most likely will not since Comcast is obligated by law to provide analog service for limited basic service for at least three years plus forty-one days. So, either your uncle misheard, misunderstood, or was provided information that is, at the very least, nothing more than speculation on the part of an employee who really doesn't know.

Generally, companies like Comcast make announcements through public channels, such as PR Newswire. They don't pass along policy decisions through random individuals.

Having said that, I would be happy for that to happen, as soon as possible, even though it would mean I would have to get boxes for my two analog outlets.

1. Re: "In most cases, DirecTV boxes are not owned by the customer " - This may be correct that most are not owned, but a consumer can buy a box and purchase service from the company. Dish Network and DirecTV both offer it. It's the consumer's choice.
Like I said, I don't know what the deal is with Dish. I also don't know the exact costs involved with renting a box from Comcast.

However, with DirecTV you pay the exact same amount of money per box per month regardless of whether you own the box or rent the box. The fee for the first box is included in the monthy subscription and additional boxes cost $5 per month to enable the same programming as the first box - again, this fee applies whether you own or lease the box. New subscribers can usually get some number of boxes for free or nearly free, but will not own those boxes (they are owned by DirecTV). Other than new subscribers, the cost is usually around $200 up front to lease a box. If you want to own a box, it will typically cost you $500-600. There are, of course, expections to the up front or ownership costs of the boxes, but those are the typical prices. Unless you want to modify the box (put a larger hard drive into a DVR for more recording capacity) or get the Pro version of their DVR (which gives some integration features for fancy remote control systems and rack mounting capabilities), there's quite frankly no advantage to owning the DirecTV boxes as the up front cost is a lot higher and you have little hope of recovering that cost later by selling older boxes off on ebay as they generally don't hold their value.

As a Comcast consumer, you do have a choice to purchase your own HD Tivo and get a CableCard from the cable company. This really isn't much different from buying your own DirecTV DVR as the DirecTV access card is roughly equivalent to the CableCard. The big difference is that in this case, you have to pay for the Tivo service over and above your Comcast service, but it's your choice to do so and the Tivo interface is excellent.

What probably happened is that someone who works for Comcast said something to your uncle that your uncle interpreted as you relayed. Big difference.

It could happen, but most likely will not since Comcast is obligated by law to provide analog service for limited basic service for at least three years plus forty-one days. So, either your uncle misheard, misunderstood, or was provided information that is, at the very least, nothing more than speculation on the part of an employee who really doesn't know.

Generally, companies like Comcast make announcements through public channels, such as PR Newswire. They don't pass along policy decisions through random individuals.

Having said that, I would be happy for that to happen, as soon as possible, even though it would mean I would have to get boxes for my two analog outlets.

Calm...down...three years is pretty close to three years and fourty one days.

As the analog channels move on to the digital tieres I'm sure they simply might just decrease the cost of digital boxes and maybe increase them on the hdtv or raise some other cost. Gradually you are going to see less and less analog channels. This started years ago when they pulled ppv's and pay channels.

You would be correct. In our area, at least, nothing is changing with regard to what channels can be received by Comcast subscribers next month.

Well, yes and no. A week ago,, I contacted Comcast in regard to the disappearance of TVGOS information from WFXT analog channel 25. After fighting my way through several levels of tech support, I learned that several weeks ago they dropped WFXT's analog feed (which perhaps was no longer available to them, given the transmitter problems the station has been having) from which I was getting my TVGOS, and substituted the feed from WFXT digital, which does not have TVGOS information, running it through a DA converter, and sending it out through their analog cable system. FWIIW, there doesn't seem to be much improvement in PQ over the previous analog source, which is no great surprise. Cable compression and transmission trashes all source material indiscriminately, it would seem.

Also, they informed me that, between now and the February analog shutdown, they are one at a time dropping the analog stations and substituting the digital station with DA conversion for their analog cable customers. So it is not a matter of stripping TVGOS subcarrier information, as some posters have speculated, but rather substituting DA-converted digital feeds on an staggered basis.

TVGOS should be available from WBZ-DT.

- Trip

A few comments on my switch to OTA..

Did the switch to OTA from cable this past weekend. I live about 55 miles from the Boston transmission towers on 128. The antenna is a ClearStream 4 mounted on my roof.. I have a cape and the mast is 9 feet above higher. I get 2 and 5 at about 80% and 4, 7 and 56 around 50-60% for strength on my Panny plasma signal meter. But 4 doesn't come in even at 60%, my guess is the analog channel 30 from Hartford is killing it. But the others all look great in HD (Dylan too!!) and I'm very happy with the reception. I also have the all the Springfield and a few Hartford station (ABC-8, CBS-3 and NBC-30, PBS-24) with my Clearstream 4 antenna pointed towards Boston. Close to 35 stations in all.

This is before the weather today.. it seems the Boston lower UHF(2 on 19 and 5 on 20) have no issues with the weather and are in the 60% range . But the other Boston stations have dropped completely to nothing. I still get the analog VHF signal for channel 7, so hopefully when they switch back to it for digital I'll have it in bad weather.

RobM

A few comments on my switch to OTA..

Did the switch to OTA from cable this past weekend. I live about 55 miles from the Boston transmission towers on 128. The antenna is a ClearStream 4 mounted on my roof.. I have a cape and the mast is 9 feet above higher. I get 2 and 5 at about 80% and 4, 7 and 56 around 50-60% for strength on my Panny plasma signal meter. But 4 doesn't come in even at 60%, my guess is the analog channel 30 from Hartford is killing it. But the others all look great in HD (Dylan too!!) and I'm very happy with the reception. I also have the all the Springfield and a few Hartford station (ABC-8, CBS-3 and NBC-30, PBS-24) with my Clearstream 4 antenna pointed towards Boston. Close to 35 stations in all.

This is before the weather today.. it seems the Boston lower UHF(2 on 19 and 5 on 20) have no issues with the weather and are in the 60% range . But the other Boston stations have dropped completely to nothing. I still get the analog VHF signal for channel 7, so hopefully when they switch back to it for digital I'll have it in bad weather.

RobM

That's impressive.
I've been thinking about doing this too but was concerned about the distance, 35 miles and the hilly terrain between here (Pepperell) and the towers in Needham. How do you determine how far up you have to be above the roof line for a good shot of catching the signals?

-t

A few comments on my switch to OTA..

Did the switch to OTA from cable this past weekend. I live about 55 miles from the Boston transmission towers on 128. The antenna is a ClearStream 4 mounted on my roof.. I have a cape and the mast is 9 feet above higher. I get 2 and 5 at about 80% and 4, 7 and 56 around 50-60% for strength on my Panny plasma signal meter. But 4 doesn't come in even at 60%, my guess is the analog channel 30 from Hartford is killing it. But the others all look great in HD (Dylan too!!) and I'm very happy with the reception. I also have the all the Springfield and a few Hartford station (ABC-8, CBS-3 and NBC-30, PBS-24) with my Clearstream 4 antenna pointed towards Boston. Close to 35 stations in all.

This is before the weather today.. it seems the Boston lower UHF(2 on 19 and 5 on 20) have no issues with the weather and are in the 60% range . But the other Boston stations have dropped completely to nothing. I still get the analog VHF signal for channel 7, so hopefully when they switch back to it for digital I'll have it in bad weather.

RobM

Forgot to mention I also have a channel master 7777 amp on it.

RobM

That's impressive.
I've been thinking about doing this too but was concerned about the distance, 35 miles and the hilly terrain between here (Pepperell) and the towers in Needham. How do you determine how far up you have to be above the roof line for a good shot of catching the signals?

-t


Have you checked your location on www.tvfool.com?

I lucked out and tried my old Terk HDTV antenna on my deck one day and got channel 5. I then decided to invest in a nice antenna and to my surprise got great reception. (Until the storm today)

I have family up in Auburn that get great signal with indoor antennas.

RobM

A few comments on my switch to OTA..

Did the switch to OTA from cable this past weekend. I live about 55 miles from the Boston transmission towers on 128. The antenna is a ClearStream 4 mounted on my roof.. I have a cape and the mast is 9 feet above higher. I get 2 and 5 at about 80% and 4, 7 and 56 around 50-60% for strength on my Panny plasma signal meter. But 4 doesn't come in even at 60%, my guess is the analog channel 30 from Hartford is killing it. But the others all look great in HD (Dylan too!!) and I'm very happy with the reception. I also have the all the Springfield and a few Hartford station (ABC-8, CBS-3 and NBC-30, PBS-24) with my Clearstream 4 antenna pointed towards Boston. Close to 35 stations in all.

This is before the weather today.. it seems the Boston lower UHF(2 on 19 and 5 on 20) have no issues with the weather and are in the 60% range . But the other Boston stations have dropped completely to nothing. I still get the analog VHF signal for channel 7, so hopefully when they switch back to it for digital I'll have it in bad weather.

RobM


Did a lot of updates to my home antenna system and distribution methods in my home over the past 2 months:


Moved my Radioshack - Model: VU-190 XR - 160" 57 element antenna from the attic to 10' off the peak of my roof: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103087&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

Installed a Whole House Video Distribution Amplifier - http://www.openhousesystem.com/product_detail.php?productId=30

Ran all home runs to each location with new RG6 cable and high quality compression fittings.

Used antennaweb.org and my orienteering compass and set my antenna direction.


I get 19 good digital channels on my (Panasonic Plasma) out of a possible 27 (but some of the 27 do not exist or are nothing). I get a couple more RI stations on my kitchen LCD because I think the tuner is more sensitive.

Welcome to the club - enjoy the cost savings.

PS - I also have the Roku Player (Netflix box) connected to my FIOS internet. My Netflix plan is $8 per month and includes the - one in my posession - current DVD and unlimited view it now selections (over 12,000 titles) in 720p HD.

PS - I also have the Roku Player (Netflix box) connected to my FIOS internet. My Netflix plan is $8 per month and includes the - one in my posession - current DVD and unlimited view it now selections (over 12,000 titles) in 720p HD.


I use SageTV (.com) with an add-on for Netflix. Still getting use to it, but I have the basic plan so I don't have access to all the newer titles streaming.

My next debate is if I want to add the TurboHD from Dish, the Silver package for $33 looks good with NESN and CSN. With it I'd have my old extended analog basic cable setup but all in HD. Charter Cable wants $60-$100 for a similar setup in digital.


RobM

Sorry if I missed it, but when does WHDH switch its digital signal over? I'm hoping that could boost its signal down here in RI...its the only one between 4,5, and 7 which doesn't quite come in most nights where I'm located.

Well they're moving their digital back to VHF 7 after the {alleged} shutdown of their analog also on VHF 7 on 2/17, so I'd say it will be on 2/18 or sometime thereafter, not sooner.

Anyone noticed what Comcast is doing in the Boston area with channel 11 from New Hampshire? Seems they're taking the widescreen digital broadcast, chopping the edges off to simulate a 4x3 format, and sending that out on the analog feed. Nice. Wrecking the widescreen broadcast instead of feeding it out as letterboxed on the analog channel. Any onscreen printing (people's names, reference to locations being shown, etc.) runs off the screen and you can't read it. If it's on the lefthand side, you only see the last few letters. On the right side, only the first few.

So well thought out. So well managed.

Anyone noticed what Comcast is doing in the Boston area with channel 11 from New Hampshire? Seems they're taking the widescreen digital broadcast, chopping the edges off to simulate a 4x3 format, and sending that out on the analog feed. Nice. Wrecking the widescreen broadcast instead of feeding it out as letterboxed on the analog channel. Any onscreen printing (people's names, reference to locations being shown, etc.) runs off the screen and you can't read it. If it's on the lefthand side, you only see the last few letters. On the right side, only the first few.

So well thought out. So well managed.

Prediction. After Feb 17th be on the lookout for ch 811.
I anticipate ch 511 on fios as well.

Well they're moving their digital back to VHF 7 after the {alleged} shutdown of their analog also on VHF 7 on 2/17, so I'd say it will be on 2/18 or sometime thereafter, not sooner.

A friend who works at WHDH-TV informs me that the plan is to cut over the signal to VHF channel 7 immediately, so the outage may be minimal.

HOWEVER -- my observation, (not my friend's or anyone else's) this is VERY important, I think -- while channels 7, 9 (WMUR) and 11 (WENH) will be taking their digital signals to their current analog alllocations, they will be running at greatly reduced power.

WHDH-TV channel 7, will be running at 29.7 Kw, ERP -- analog "VHF HIs" typically run 316 kw, and 7 runs that today.

WENH-TV, channel 11, will be going to 30 Kw on Digital-Day.

WMUR-TV, channel 9 . goes to 6.5 Kw!

How will this affect OTA receivers? I can't even guess.

You can look it up (www.fcc.gov, TV Query).

29.7 kW and 30 kW are the FCC power limits for their given heights. Digital signals require less power to cover the same distance as analogs.

I cannot speak for WMUR though, that's not the first Hearst station I've seen that's operating some tiny power on VHF.

- Trip

A friend who works at WHDH-TV informs me that the plan is to cut over the signal to VHF channel 7 immediately, so the outage may be minimal.

HOWEVER -- my observation, (not my friend's or anyone else's) this is VERY important, I think -- while channels 7, 9 (WMUR) and 11 (WENH) will be taking their digital signals to their current analog alllocations, they will be running at greatly reduced power.

WHDH-TV channel 7, will be running at 29.7 Kw, ERP -- analog "VHF HIs" typically run 316 kw, and 7 runs that today.

WENH-TV, channel 11, will be going to 30 Kw on Digital-Day.

WMUR-TV, channel 9 . goes to 6.5 Kw!

How will this affect OTA receivers? I can't even guess.

You can look it up (www.fcc.gov, TV Query).

Check out the FCC coverage maps, most stations keep or grow there coverage area. The only real big loser in the switchover is the My Network channel 50 out of NH. (last page in the Boston PDF)

Boston map.. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Boston_MA.pdf
all maps.. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/

For me.. I'm wondering if I'll get Fox 25-WFXT (prefer-miss Maria and Sara) or Fox 61-WTIC from Hartford down here in Brimfield.. both are on digital 31 and cover the area.. with the Fox61 gaining coverage up to Worcester. My antenna is pointed towards Boston and I don't get either Fox station now. (Yes, I know WFXT is not at full strength)

RobM

Anyone noticed what Comcast is doing in the Boston area with channel 11 from New Hampshire? Seems they're taking the widescreen digital broadcast, chopping the edges off to simulate a 4x3 format, and sending that out on the analog feed. Nice. Wrecking the widescreen broadcast instead of feeding it out as letterboxed on the analog channel.
Verizon is doing the same thing.

What is a cable company supposed to do when the broadcast is HD 16x9 and they need to provide a 4x3 SD signal? Always letterbox? Always prune? Get the station owner to choose one or the other?
Any FCC guidance/regulations here?

Verizon is doing the same thing.

What is a cable company supposed to do when the broadcast is HD 16x9 and they need to provide a 4x3 SD signal? Always letterbox? Always prune? Get the station owner to choose one or the other?
Any FCC guidance/regulations here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description

Once that's implemented, it should resolve the issue. Implementation is still several months out from what I hear.

- Trip

Is there any reason to think that implementation will be instantaneous (i.e., across all networks and service providers), when it does begin, as opposed to becoming part of standard practice over a period of many years (one network at a time, one service provider at a time)?

Is there any reason to think that implementation will be instantaneous (i.e., across all networks and service providers), when it does begin, as opposed to becoming part of standard practice over a period of many years (one network at a time, one service provider at a time)?

Nope, not a chance. Unless anything's changed since last summer, PBS and NBC are the two networks pushing AFD really hard, and will each be bringing it up on their own schedule. I think ABC has said they will not be implementing it at all. I don't remember what the other networks said, but if it was "not at all" I'd have remembered.

- Trip

Exactly, so folks expecting AFD to have such medium-term effect really need to revise their expectations.

Well, generally most programs are designed so that if they're center cut, you don't lose anything important on the edges. Not so with PBS. PBS has had their programming use the whole screen for a number of years, so PBS is in a bit of a hurry to implement AFD in hopes of allowing for situations like WENH to be resolved.

- Trip

Well, generally most programs are designed so that if they're center cut, you don't lose anything important on the edges.Key word, "generally".

Not so with PBS.Don't get me started...

This might open up some worms but I just heard this...

OK so the OTA analog ends mid february (lp stays)

OK

Canada doesn't change until 2011.

So will people be able to DX channels from canada more easily?

This might open up some worms but I just heard this...

OK so the OTA analog ends mid february (lp stays)

OK

Canada doesn't change until 2011.

So will people be able to DX channels from canada more easily?

In theory, yes. =)

- Trip

I'm in Cambridge and am using a Terk outdoor directional antenna. When I point it towards Newton, where all the towers are, I get every channel out there except for WGBZ 44 (I get the ABC, NBC, FOX, WGBH 2, etc). WGBH 2 comes in fine, even in HD, but I can't even get analog 44, let alone HD or PBS World.

Has anyone else had this problem with 44? It seems weird to me, don't they broadcast both stations from the same tower? Antennaweb says theyre on the same compass heading and the same distance away...

I'm in Cambridge and am using a Terk outdoor directional antenna. When I point it towards Newton, where all the towers are, I get every channel out there except for WGBZ 44 (I get the ABC, NBC, FOX, WGBH 2, etc). WGBH 2 comes in fine, even in HD, but I can't even get analog 44, let alone HD or PBS World.

Has anyone else had this problem with 44? It seems weird to me, don't they broadcast both stations from the same tower? Antennaweb says theyre on the same compass heading and the same distance away...

I'm picking up 44-DT fine down here in Randolph in a 3 story walk up. I use an indoor Terk HDTVa amplified antenna.

44 DT is fine for me in Salem NH with a old attic antenna (90 on the signal meter):D

I get 44 OK around Exeter, NH, depending upon the weather. Heavy rain or wet snow make a difference. I have an 8' Channel Master with amp mounted about 40' down the cable.

Anyone noticed what Comcast is doing in the Boston area with channel 11 from New Hampshire? Seems they're taking the widescreen digital broadcast, chopping the edges off to simulate a 4x3 format, and sending that out on the analog feed. Nice. Wrecking the widescreen broadcast instead of feeding it out as letterboxed on the analog channel. Any onscreen printing (people's names, reference to locations being shown, etc.) runs off the screen and you can't read it. If it's on the lefthand side, you only see the last few letters. On the right side, only the first few.

So well thought out. So well managed.

Prediction. After Feb 17th be on the lookout for ch 811...


:confused:

And this affects people still getting analog HOW?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Description

Once that's implemented, it should resolve the issue. Implementation is still several months out from what I hear.

- Trip

Should.

But will Comcast have its equipment up to date, or will they just not care about people watching the analog feed?

Should.

But will Comcast have its equipment up to date, or will they just not care about people watching the analog feed?This is the Boston, MA – OTA forum. These questions should be in the Boston, MA - Comcast (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793008) forum.

Greater Boston with Emily Rooney did a segment on the digital transition. Guests were Bill Fine of WCVB and GBH Pres&CEO Jon Abbott. Of interest was that although Greater Boston(GB)has just started airing in wide screen it's not shot in HD. It's upconverted. WGBH doesn't have HD cameras yet according to the director of GB who was also interviewed for the segment.

It does look quite good in widescreen. However this raises a different question perhaps answerable by someone more knowledgeable than this poster. Why not upconvert overnight programming such as NOVA, Nature, Frontline, Masterpiece etc repeats instead of letter boxing? I routinely record HD programming with an upconverting DVD recorder and it looks quite good(albeit less sharp) upconverted.

Thoughts?

i live 28 miles from boston and i can ony get CBS 4.1 with my LCD HDTV and on my analog tv with raabbit ears (amplified)

maybe its because i live on the 1st floor

Distance to Boston is irrelevant; what matters is distance and bearing to Needham, where the broadcast towers are.

i live 28 miles from boston and i can ony get CBS 4.1 with my LCD HDTV and on my analog tv with raabbit ears (amplified)
maybe its because i live on the 1st floor

If you are using actual rabbit ears they are VHF antennae while all the current Boston area stations are broadcasting in UHF. Being on the first floor could also be your problem. You might try a directional UHF antenna. I use an amplified one on a third floor walkup 15 miles from Boston. However I get good reception on DT stations 30 miles distant.

At times, I was able to recieve some UHF channels I have no idea how they were coming in, but then hours later they would dissapear.

Rabbit ears are my only option, perhaps after analog is gone there wont be any interference

There are other indoor antennas besides rabbit ears. I like the Silver Sensor, now sold under the Phillips brand name. That might provide better results.

- Trip

What does your TV Fool.com plot look like?

Do you have a clear view towards the Needham towers?

I have found that VHF signals are more impaired on the 1st floor than UHF, unless UHF doesn't have LOS or a decent path (not through buildings and/or trees).

Do your rabbit ears have a UHF loop as well? Amplification can also cause more problems than it solves.

There are other indoor antennas besides rabbit ears. I like the Silver Sensor, now sold under the Phillips brand name. That might provide better results.
Speaking of Silver Sensors.... I've got a bunch of never opened Silver Sensor antennas sitting around taking up space. They originally came with my accessDTV HD tuner cards. I got a bunch of free cards from the manufacturer as a thank you for enhancing their software (it's a long story - search the accessDTV threads in the Home Theater Computers forum if you're curious) and most of them came with an antenna. If anyone is interested in one, you can come to my house to get it or I can ship it to you for the cost of postage. I believe I have 4-5 of them. PM me if interested.

At times, I was able to recieve some UHF channels I have no idea how they were coming in, but then hours later they would dissapear.

Rabbit ears are my only option, perhaps after analog is gone there wont be any interference

Why are "rabbit ears" your only option. There are plenty of affordable indoor antenna options out there. As mentioned by others there is the Silver Sensor. Are you using the slang rabbit ears to mean any indoor antenna?

Yes the pair I have now has a Loop, and it is amplified, I have a 22" Vizio LCD with a built in tuner as well as an old tube set with the magnavox TB100MW9

Sorry if this question is posted elsewhere. I tried a google and forum search and couldn't come up with anything. I also looked through 30 or so pages here.

The guide on my HR10-250 OTA tuner shows a list of back-to-back movies for WHDH 7.2 but only an SD simulcast of regular 7.1 programming is shown. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

7-2 is an SD version of 7-1 ...they used to run NBC's Weather channel, but that was pulled a couple of weeks ago. No word on what will eventually be on the sub-channel.

The guide on my HR10-250 OTA tuner shows a list of back-to-back movies for WHDH 7.2 but only an SD simulcast of regular 7.1 programming is shown. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

Interesting... the guide is showing 7-2 as airing This TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV)...

- Trip

This from Wikipedia...it's the first I've heard of This TV...

This TV (also referred to as "This TV Network" or "THIS TV", or just "this" in on-air promotions) is a general entertainment television network designed for digital terrestrial television subchannels. The network is a joint venture between film/TV studio Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Chicago-based Weigel Broadcasting Co.. It was launched on November 1, 2008...This TV's program schedule relies on the extensive library of films and TV programming currently owned by MGM (notably excluding the pre-1986 MGM film/TV library, whose rights are currently held by Turner Entertainment and Time Warner). The film lineup does not concentrate on films from any specific era, meaning films from the Depression era to contemporary times are featured.

Interesting... the guide is showing 7-2 as airing This TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV)...

- Trip

Agreed but that is not whats airing.

zap2it lists it also under whdh hd 2

titan tv does not and still lists it as weather

I'd say it should arrive later this year

7-2 is an SD version of 7-1 ...they used to run NBC's Weather channel, but that was pulled a couple of weeks ago. No word on what will eventually be on the sub-channel.

ch 56 did this for a few weeks then pulled 56.2 off completely.

According to an FCC filing found by a poster on another forum, WHDH has told the FCC they'll be airing This on 7-2.

- Trip

29.7 kW and 30 kW are the FCC power limits for their given heights. Digital signals require less power to cover the same distance as analogs.

I cannot speak for WMUR though, that's not the first Hearst station I've seen that's operating some tiny power on VHF.

- Trip

WMUR's antenna is located on a nice hill/mountain just outside Manchester that gives it great LOS to most of it's viewing area. I am not surprised that they don't need to run much power...

WMUR's antenna is located on a nice hill/mountain just outside Manchester that gives it great LOS to most of it's viewing area. I am not surprised that they don't need to run much power...

I'm in Salem NH and i can't pick up WMUR at all during the day
I can pick it up at night.Have better luck with WCVB (rock solid)
Directv carries WMUR-DT now but they converted the digital signal to 16x9 480I
OTA is 720P
And remember after the switchover they are reverting back to ch 9 so maybe more power then?
I do have alarge hill northwest of me maybe thats a problem too??

I'm in Salem NH and i can't pick up WMUR at all during the day
I can pick it up at night.Have better luck with WCVB (rock solid)
Directv carries WMUR-DT now but they converted the digital signal to 16x9 480I
OTA is 720P
And remember after the switchover they are reverting back to ch 9 so maybe more power then?
I do have alarge hill northwest of me maybe thats a problem too??

I am in Hollis. WMUR-DT is so strong in comes in ok off the back of my antenna. The hill does sound like a problem.

The Retro Television Network is now showing on WJAR 10-2 in RI. Unfortunately the on air guide still shows NBC Weather Plus and Zap2It shows a generic RTN Programming on 10-3. There is no 10-3.

According to an FCC filing found by a poster on another forum, WHDH has told the FCC they'll be airing This on 7-2.

- Trip
I e-mailed the program director at WHDH-TV 7. Here's what he or she emailed back today:

Thank you for your e-mail. WeatherPlus was a collaborative effort with the NBC Network which was discontinued by the network as of December 31, 2008. In the coming days, we will be launching THIS TV, a classic movie and TV show channel in partnership with MGM Studios. In the meantime, we are simulcasting our WHDH signal. We appreciate your taking the time to write to us.





Viewer Relations

WHDH-7NBC/CW56

7 Bulfinch Place

Boston, MA 02114

The Retro Television Network is now showing on WJAR 10-2 in RI. Unfortunately the on air guide still shows NBC Weather Plus and Zap2It shows a generic RTN Programming on 10-3. There is no 10-3.

Update: WJAR 10-2 on air guide is now up and running showing the specific RTN programming.

From what I've been reading, many analog stations will leave the air on 2/17 even if the proposed delay to 6/12 goes through. Anyone know what the plans of Boston-area stations are?

I get the feeling that there's really not going to be any extension. If the idea is to simply get more discount cards to people without boxes I think they probably have heard by now.

think about it this way. If you own the license to that frequency to use on 2/17 then that would be a breech of contract if the government changes it.

Channel 7 said last night the Senate might vote on a bill to push the switchover back to June.

THAT will sux!

For me, I cannot get WBZ-DT until WVIT-TV (Hartford) shuts down on analog 30.
Since WVIT went to reduced power on an analog failure, I am now able to get a WBZ-DT signal, but it still is not coming in clearly.

As always.. Government screws it up..

Which analog stations do you think will stay on past 2/17 if the digital delay bill is past? Also does the bill REQUIRE analogs to stay on until 6/12 or just allows them to stay on from 2/17-6/12 if they want?

Channel 7 said last night the Senate might vote on a bill to push the switchover back to June.


Here's the latest on the Senate bill. (http://www.multichannel.com/article/162589-Rocky_II_Stations_Can_Go_DTV_Before_June_12.php?rssid=20059) The corresponding House bill (sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman) has been on hold due to Republican opposition in the Senate, but now Sen. Rockefeller has gotten the ranking Republican on the Senate Commerce Committee to co-sponsor his amended version, making it more likely to pass and restart action in the House.

If so, the final bill will probably both allow voluntary shutdowns and mandate shutdowns needed to clear "first responder" spectrum (responding to Sen. McCain's concerns on the latter). In addition, the House bill asks the FCC to come up with a plan to clear some of the spectrum paid for by the wireless companies, which I imagine would entail some more shutdowns. It's going to be messy!

So that's supposed to make it easier? Sounds like they are creating a bigger mess by putting off the date.

I know a number of people with digital TVs that thought they needed to buy a converter so they ordered the government card. They will never use the coupon because it will only give them SD quality!

Here's the latest on the Senate bill. (http://www.multichannel.com/article/162589-Rocky_II_Stations_Can_Go_DTV_Before_June_12.php?rssid=20059) The corresponding House bill (sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman) has been on hold due to Republican opposition in the Senate, but now Sen. Rockefeller has gotten the ranking Republican on the Senate Commerce Committee to co-sponsor his amended version, making it more likely to pass and restart action in the House.

If so, the final bill will probably both allow voluntary shutdowns and mandate shutdowns needed to clear "first responder" spectrum (responding to Sen. McCain's concerns on the latter). In addition, the House bill asks the FCC to come up with a plan to clear some of the spectrum paid for by the wireless companies, which I imagine would entail some more shutdowns. It's going to be messy!

I still don't think this will really happen

1) congress has little time left...we're talking what...three weeks?

2) how can the government give back tens of billions of dollars to these companies that bought the spectrum and then ask for it again in the summer

3) ok so what's the point here...because someone can't get over the air tv? So this doesn't address the concept of the technology itself. So we're giving people more time for boxes because.....?

If a box cost $40 and that is unaffordible then obviously the advertisers for these networks probably don't need those viewers. That might sound harsh but any loss in ratings could be seen as a gain.

When we got rid of analog cell phones some people had these odd ideas of trying to extend range by beaming things off of ballons in distant areas. I'm sorry but that just didn't work and wouldn't be worth the money.

It would be intersting to see as to who paid the money for these licenses because the loss of spectrum even for a few months could hit their stock prices further.

Regarding #1 -- I think what matters is whether or not there is way for any non-political stakeholder (i.e., Qualcomm) to assert legitimate claims to enjoin a delay. I think Congress will have the clueless-gumption to pass the legislation regarding the delay on February 16 and still assume that the FCC will work out the details to make it happen (really: not happen) the next day. While it is possible that some Members of Congress will try to keep the legislation from passing, there really isn't enough incentive to stick one's political neck out for this.

Regarding #2 -- They aren't going to give the money back. They're going to just delay the effective dates of the license (and extend its expiration date accordingly). They're Congress; they think they can do that (and who knows? maybe they will be allowed to).

Regarding #3 -- I don't believe there has to be rational logic underpinning political actions. You're trying to apply the rules of science to a realm where such rules do not apply. They're using the CECB program waiting list as an excuse, but you see that in every reference to a delay, that that quickly gets lost in the shuffle, and the defense for this action becomes all about procrastinators simply not being ready. They have no choice to engage in that deception because the waiting list didn't get started until after it was already so late that the people who ended up on the waiting list had little practical defense for having waited so long.

Regarding "networks probably don't need those viewers" -- That is explicitly not part of this issue. The CECB program, and the issues being raised regarding readiness, have nothing to do with the commercial, profit-making aspect of television, but rather is exclusively reserved to the accessibility to news and information which is considered by a majority in this country to be a right of-sorts. (Otherwise, there would have been no need for a CECB program in the first place.)

Regarding "we got rid of analog cell phones" -- Good point, but the reality is that, at least back then, cellphone were almost exclusively a secondary means of communication.

Again, I resonate with the last thing you said... what may save the February 17 date is that companies that purchased spectrum had a reasonable expectation of taking "delivery" on that date. Unfortunately, some of those companies have said that they do not object to the delay. So it will be up to those that do object to assert their rights.

Regarding "we got rid of analog cell phones" -- Good point, but the reality is that, at least back then, cellphone were almost exclusively a secondary means of communication.

I agree with almost everything you wrote, except this statement. What do you mean by "back then"? February 2008, when the FCC finally allowed analog cell phone service to go away, thus leaving many rural cell phone users in the dark?

- Trip

Was it really that recently? It sure seemed longer ago. And it sure seemed like most of the people complaining were not complaining about being left "in the dark" but rather because they didn't want to spend the money to buy a new phone. Maybe my memory is equally faulty about that. Do you have any reference to what percentage of analog cellphone users were using it as their sole means of communication?

Was it really that recently? It sure seemed longer ago. And it sure seemed like most of the people complaining were not complaining about being left "in the dark" but rather because they didn't want to spend the money to buy a new phone. Maybe my memory is equally faulty about that. Do you have any reference to what percentage of analog cellphone users were using it as their sole means of communication?

Unfortunately I don't have those statistics, but it was that recently. I know because reception in my area it was not uncommon to fall back on analog, even though almost everyone had a hybrid phone.

- Trip

I can somewhat sympathise with you because although I live in mass I didn't get broadband until 2002 (that's when it came out) some assume that the whole state is wired and yet there's still a chunk in the western portions that is still today on phone lines.

For the first two years of where I live (1993-1995) I didn't have direct mail service. I had to pick it up at the post office. Some mail even said rural route dispite the fact that it's a street off of another which is off of a state route. But that gradually changed.

http://www.engadget.com/

http://www.engadget.com/


I would like to know how this will affect WFXT's antenna/transmitter change. Last I heard they were going to wait until transition day and then start the work.

I bet that maybe BZ or CVB may stay on after 2/17. The bill does not look like it requires analog to stay on after 2/17.

Fox25 in Boston is currently running a promo featuring two of their news anchors advising people about the pending switch to digital.

At the very end, with a graphic on the screen for emphasis, they advise you to make sure you have "a quality UHF antenna" to be ready for the transition.

I guess that's excellent advice for Fox25 viewers, but maybe not be so good on its face value for those viewers who may also want to clearly receive stations in the Boston, Providence, and NH markets {where this promo is being seen} that are going back to VHF frequencies after the transition. Most of us here on this forum know that some UHF antennas have reasonable gain on the high VHF channels, but you'd think they'd avoid making such a blanket statement to the non-technical public given the confusion that already exists.

On the plus side, the anchors urge people to get out their converter boxes now and hook them up and make sure they're working properly and start enjoying DTV right now. That's the first such promo I've seen where it didn't leave you with the impression that you needed to do that only after the transition date.

The problem that I see though is not all of these stations are going to go along with it. I've read another wire report where stations are saying it is going to cost them tens of thousands of dollars extra if they wanted to keep the analog transmitters running.

People might get more time to do the changes...but stations already anticipated this. To cough up more money I think is a bit stupid...

Chances are some stations are still going to switch on the 17th

PBS is saying the delay will cost 22 million dollars
www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/01/26/arts/AP-TV-Digital-Transition.html?_r=1

Is there an estimated range as to how far out WCVB-DT (ABC) gets out on channel 20? Despite this unnecessary delay, it looks as if WTXX-TV/DT (CW) of Waterbury, CT will still switch their digital over from channel 12 to 20 (where their analog channel is now) next month. The analog channel 20 transmitter is in Prospect, which is just south of Waterbury. The digital transmitter will be at the top of the WTIC-TV/DT tower on Rattlesnake Mountain in Farmington, CT (west-southwest of Hartford). With only 91 miles (straight line) between Farmington, CT and Needham, MA, how is this going to work?

If the bill that both houses of Congress approve and Obama signs does indeed allow stations the option of shutting down analog on Feb 17th, won't that create a bigger mess. Won't people who dont' have converters still go dark? Isn't that the issue our illustrious leaders are trying to prevent? If I am a station owner and can save some $ by shutting down on the 17th then I will.

As for me, I've been happily enjoying digital TV and HDTV for several years and I'm sure it's the same for many of you. Whether or not there is a delay doesn't affect me at all. Does it?

-Ursa

Whether or not there is a delay doesn't affect me at all. Does it?

-Ursa

I'm just curious about reception after the switch over. Then again I'd rather make any needed antenna mods in June. Rather icy up there at the moment.

With only 91 miles (straight line) between Farmington, CT and Needham, MA, how is this going to work?

Not very well, in some areas. Attached are two simulations of interference for WTXX onto WCVB and WCVB onto WTXX coverage areas. Directional antennas can cure some of these ills perhaps.

WTXX has a maximized app pending for 470kW, though with a heart shaped pattern, away from the Boston area. I can model that if it is of interest.

Not very well, in some areas. Attached are two simulations of interference for WTXX onto WCVB and WCVB onto WTXX coverage areas. Directional antennas can cure some of these ills perhaps.

WTXX has a maximized app pending for 470kW, though with a heart shaped pattern, away from the Boston area. I can model that if it is of interest.

Interesting maps.

I get WCVB at 70-85% on my tv here in Brimfield. I pray I don't loose it.. they broadcast shows in HD when WGGB doesn't. (example.. Legend of the Seeker)

I'm wondering about the other stations with interference from each other for my location.

WSBK and WCTX are on 39, and I do not receive either but the tv has tuned in WSBK because it's listed on my channel list.

WFXT and WTIC will both on 31, when they get up and running after the new antennas are installed. WTIC looks like they are getting a big boost in coverage also.

For me.. I prefer the Boston stations, which is what my Clearstream 4 is pointed towards. (I like news and weather geared for my State)

Well I wish WTXX-DT luck! They presently have a weak signal on channel 12. I only get them in southern Hartford County because I live 5 miles or less from their Rattlesnake Mountain transmitter. As for out-of-state digital signals, I get nothing from Springfield or Boston/Worcester. However, I do get a weak signal of WPXQ-DT (ION) channel 17 (analog 69) from the Providence/New Bedford market. Not bad, considering I'm only using a $15 RCA flat-wing indoor antenna.

As for WFXT-DT and WSBK-DT, I wasn't aware of those potential conflicts. Hamden, CT is further than Farmington for WCTX-DT and WSBK-DT at least.

At the very end, with a graphic on the screen for emphasis, they advise you to make sure you have "a quality UHF antenna" to be ready for the transition.

I guess that's excellent advice for Fox25 viewers, but maybe not be so good on its face value for those viewers who may also want to clearly receive stations in the Boston, Providence, and NH markets {where this promo is being seen} that are going back to VHF frequencies after the transition.

You have a good point. These days many quality antennas combine "rabbit ears" with a UHF antenna. It would be nice if the Fox25 message recommended getting a quality combination antenna to keep getting DTV programming. Ironically much of the simplistic PSA's on this topic have talked about "rabbit ears" and completely ignored the need for a good quality UHF antenna.

I thought it was strange how I was able to pick up WFXT 25 on it's analog channel, then one day, the whole thing went blank. Then I found out that their analog tower was damaged from a storm, and that instead of fixing it, they are just going to work on the digital one.

I seen a promo on WGBX 44.1 today that said something about the channel is operating at reduced power, I don't know if they meant the digital channel, or the analog one.

I just got an ARTEC T3AP and I can say it is much better then my magnavox. I am pulling in 9 channels. This is the most I've ever gotten and I hope I will get more in a few months.

[QUOTE=I seen a promo on WGBX 44.1 today that said something about the channel is operating at reduced power, I don't know if they meant the digital channel, or the analog one.[/QUOTE]

Just 44 analog.

http://www.engadget.com/

But defeated in the House

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/01/28/house_defeats_bill_to_delay_digital_tv_transition/

But defeated in the House

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/01/28/house_defeats_bill_to_delay_digital_tv_transition/

What was defeated was an "expedited" passage that required 2/3rds approval. Delay proponents definitely have the votes if they go through the normal rules. The question now is, will they do so, seeing as how time is running out?

Even jails have hdtv sets now
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28781264

A delay won't stop the transition anyway...

the cut off date is when the analog HAS to end...but companies don't have to broadcast in analog if they don't want to. chances are unless they hear from people losing their signals they could easily drop it.

well i guess WGBX 44 is still switching on feb 17th. Made a few antenna adjustments and I am now picking them up clear as day in crystal clear quality on my LCD.

I'm picking up all 4 of their digital channels, including the main network, as well as world, create, and kids. Really Happy.

the cut off date is when the analog HAS to end...but companies don't have to broadcast in analog if they don't want to. chances are unless they hear from people losing their signals they could easily drop it.

Wrong.

Up until 30 days prior to the transition date broadcasters MUST seek approval from the FCC to discontinue transmitting analog signals.

We're now inside that window for the Feb 17th date, but I don't expect anyone will shut down until then. That wouldn't likely please their advertisers or their audience. WFXT is an exception, they are running at very reduced power choosing not to spend money repairing something that will just be mothballed soon anyway, and who can blame them.

Wrong.

Up until 30 days prior to the transition date broadcasters MUST seek approval from the FCC to discontinue transmitting analog signals.

But until there are changes to the law, as of right now we're within 30 days, and hundreds of stations have filed to say they'll be terminating on February 17, regardless of Congressional action. Many are still filing, and seeking waivers of the 30-day notification requirement because they didn't expect the Congressional action.

Everything is up in the air at this point.

- Trip

wouldn't the FCC assume stations are going to turn off in mid february by now?

So they have to file within 30 days of turning off reguardless of the date?

This is getting confusing here. Wouldn't it be simplier to simply assume a channel is going to turn off until said otherwise?

All this filing going to the FCC is going to flood them either way.

Would it be safe to somewhat say that if nothing is passed by the deadline that analog is over (excluding low power of course).

Have there been any stations choosing to ignore the 2/17 date?

I read in another thread that if stations have been broadcasting ads for the transition, that counts as notification and they could turn off on the 17th providing the ads have been running for 30 days. Whether or not that is the case remains to be seen.

I read in another thread that if stations have been broadcasting ads for the transition, that counts as notification and they could turn off on the 17th providing the ads have been running for 30 days. Whether or not that is the case remains to be seen.

The ads have been mandated by the government to a degree. I think they've been running them for a year or so now.

It's really about trying to minimize how many would be left out.

I'm just refercing the limitations of the technology. I'm sure some channels to some people will be lost. It's going to take time to adjust the power levels to maximize the distances.

Some of this is getting odd though. I've seen a portible atsc tv in a flyer today for $100. it makes a strong case because technically the price is low enough..

I read online that the House plans to bring the bill back next week to push back the date to June. This time it should pass and Obama has said He'll sign it.


All i can say is.. write your Rep!! Just go to http://www.house.gov/ and hit the link on the upper left of the page.

Does WHDH still plan to flash- cut on 2/17, no matter what ? Also Ch 46 in Norwell plans to flash cut to Ch 10 for post -digital,but has to wait for WJAR-TV ch 10 analog to turn off.

What does "flash cut" mean?
Is this some fancy term you made up to confuse folks?

What does "flash cut" mean?
Is this some fancy term you made up to confuse folks?

In this case: Analog 7 gets turned off, digital 7 gets turned on in its place.

- Trip

As of today, it appears that This TV has been launched on WHDH 7.2.

Rabbitears.info has posted a list of stations that have notified the FCC of plans to terminate analog signals on February 17 regardless of congressional action to postpone the transition.

With New Hampshire Public Television activating DT-11 on 2/18, this will at least offer an opportunity to test the range of VHF antennas. From Belmont MA, the attic antenna picks up WPRI on DT-13 at 60-65% signal strength without very many dropped frames.

As of today, it appears that This TV has been launched on WHDH 7.2.

Rabbitears.info has posted a list of stations that have notified the FCC of plans to terminate analog signals on February 17 regardless of congressional action to postpone the transition.

With New Hampshire Public Television activating DT-11 on 2/18, this will at least offer an opportunity to test the range of VHF antennas. From Belmont MA, the attic antenna picks up WPRI on DT-13 at 60-65% signal strength without very many dropped frames.
How is the reception in Belmont in DTV from other Providence stations, namely WLNE 6, WJAR 10, WNAC 64, WLWC 28, and WSBE 36?

I'm watching THIS boston on WHDH 7.2, so this is the new classic channel?

what is it? classic movies and stuff? It says they show movies from pre-80's and classic cartoons.

This is awesome.

Does anyone know if WFXT plans on adding HD syndication? WNAC (FOX Providence) used to be light years behind WFXT, and now they are light years ahead of WFXT. For example they show Seinfield in HD and they also show Mike&Juliet in HD while WFXT doesn't.

How is the reception in Belmont in DTV from other Providence stations, namely WLNE 6, WJAR 10, WNAC 64, WLWC 28, and WSBE 36?

I just moved from East Boston back to Belmont, and from my experience WLWC (DT-22) was the strongest, sometimes even outperforming WLVI and WSBK on signal strength depending on the antenna. I was using an indoor powered antenna, but I was on the south side of the hill overlooking the airport with excellent line of sight out the window. With some gain adjustments and precise pointing I could also get WNAC clearly (DT-54), and I would have to move the antenna much closer to the window to even get anything out of WLNE (DT-49) or WJAR (DT-51). I never picked up WSBE (DT-21), nor did I have VHF elements on my antenna good enough for WPRI.

From Belmont, I have a rooftop style antenna but it's mounted indoors in the attic connected to one set, and a silver sensor connected to another set downstairs. The silver sensor is directional and only really picks up Needham stations and WHDT 26 very well. The attic antenna has much better VHF elements, so WPRI comes in perfectly, and UHF's WNAC and WLWC can be hit or miss. I imagine WNAC will be perfect when they move to DT-12.

WLWC transmits from a different location than the rest of the Providence stations. It's much further east. See here:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1078112.html

Compare with WJAR:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT1250524.html

- Trip

WLWC would actually be further away from me, but from my location those distances would be negligible. WLWC benefits from a reasonably strong ERP (440kw) and a relatively low UHF position, channel 22.

I'm watching THIS boston on WHDH 7.2, so this is the new classic channel?

what is it? classic movies and stuff? It says they show movies from pre-80's and classic cartoons.

This is awesome.

Actually they also show post 80's movies. I'm thrilled THIS carries the classic Outer Limits which albeit at 4 AM. I guess that's what the DVDR is for ;). Check the listings at Zap2It . I also get Channel 10 in Providence which runs classic TV RTN on its 10.2 subchannel. I nice nostalgia bonus.

I'm glad they added THIS on 7.2. It's a great channel.

Does any one know how much of the bandwidth is left to 7.1 now?

Does any one know how much of the bandwidth is left to 7.1 now?

Great question these subchannels suck

Here's what I'm picking up for stream info:

7-1:
Video: 1920x1080, 29.97 fps, bitrate between 15 and 16 Mbps
Audio: Dolby Digital 5.1, 48kHz, 384kbps

7-2:
Video: 528x480, 29.97fps, bitrate between 1.8 and 2.1 Mbps
Audio: Dolby Digital, 48kHz, 192kbps

By comparison, most of the dedicated 1080i signals I pick up that don't share bandwidth hover between 15 and 18 Mbps for video alone. The full bandwidth of an ATSC channel is 19.39 Mbps.

Here's what I'm picking up for stream info:

7-1:
Video: 1920x1080, 29.97 fps, bitrate between 15 and 16 Mbps
Audio: Dolby Digital 5.1, 48kHz, 384kbps

7-2:
Video: 528x480, 29.97fps, bitrate between 1.8 and 2.1 Mbps
Audio: Dolby Digital, 48kHz, 192kbps

By comparison, most of the dedicated 1080i signals I pick up that don't share bandwidth hover between 15 and 18 Mbps for video alone. The full bandwidth of an ATSC channel is 19.39 Mbps.

Are you using TSReader?

- Trip

Are you using TSReader?

- Trip

I use EyeTV on the Mac. I took that data from the live streams as I was writing the previous posts.

I'm glad they added THIS on 7.2. It's a great channel.How could we know? :) I cannot find listings for it anywhere.

How could we know? :) I cannot find listings for it anywhere.

http://www.thistvnetwork.net/

- Trip

How could we know? :) I cannot find listings for it anywhere.

The listings appear on Zap2It if you enter a local zip code and select Antenna as your provider.

Great question these subchannels suck

I think subchannels are nice actually. Combining the extra pbs stuff with pax stuff, rtn from channel 10 and now this it adds up.

2,4,5,7, 7-2, 10-2, 25, 38, 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, 44-4, 56 those 4 pax ones

You figure about 17 channels. More if you count overlapping network content.

I think subchannels are nice actually. Combining the extra pbs stuff with pax stuff, rtn from channel 10 and now this it adds up.

2,4,5,7, 7-2, 10-2, 25, 38, 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, 44-4, 56 those 4 pax ones

You figure about 17 channels. More if you count overlapping network content.

I am more interested in PQ then the number of channel but that isw me to each his own I guess

http://www.thistvnetwork.net/Thanks!

The listings appear on Zap2It if you enter a local zip code and select Antenna as your provider.I tried that with no success.

I haven't checked recently... is WFXT-TV (analog channel 25) still off-the-air?

I haven't checked recently... is WFXT-TV (analog channel 25) still off-the-air?

They've told the FCC they're on the air at severely reduced power.

- Trip

Again: Thanks!

At one time I was able to recieve their analog channel and then one day it just died. How strong is their Digital channel?

At one time I was able to recieve their analog channel and then one day it just died. How strong is their Digital channel?

The digital is weak, though not WZMY weak, at the moment. They plan to boost power and/or replace the antenna at some point in the near future, but who knows how soon that will be.

- Trip

I just heard on ABC6 (WLNE) News at 11 PM that all Providence stations will shut off their analog signals on February 17. Any word on if all of the Boston stations shut off on the 17th too?

According to rabbitears.info, no Boston stations have indicated that they will be terminating analog early, yet.

For Providence, you mentioned WLNE, but the reality is that all five major network affiliates (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and PBS) are terminating analog by February 17.

For completeness (not that y'all cannot check rabbitear.info yourself, but...) in Manchester, just the PBS stations have announced early termination.

I was listening to WBZ 1030 when there was a report about the delay in the digital TV transition. First the local talking head commented about the upcoming story about "HDTV" confusion.

Okay the national (CBS?) reporter in the story did use the term digital but then talked about "those rabbit ears" no longer being useful after the transition. Of course it's the TV that is affected. "Rabbit ears" with a UHF look will still work for strong signals.

The reporter then went on to mislead by talking about the lack of availability of the coupons that allow people to get FREE digital converters. All the converters I've seen in the store are priced higher than the $40 value of the coupon; albeit not by much.

With "reporting" like this ...:(

I called WCVB ch. 5 today and they confirmed that are going to shut off their analog signal on Feb.17. So it will be an interesting situation on Feb 17-18 to see what happens.

Yup, I remember Bill Fine saying during the interview he gave on Greater Boston recently that years of planning has gone into the logistics of this transition and to change it at the last minute would be completely impractical and only add to the confusion. He's right! I applaud WCVB for not giving in to the completely misinformed PC view of our DTV readiness and sticking to their original schedule. I hope all the other networks in Boston will follow suit. Phil Graham was right on, we have become a nation of whiners.

OK, I have to stop writing about this subject now before I get banned. :D

The reporter then went on to mislead by talking about the lack of availability of the coupons that allow people to get FREE digital converters. All the converters I've seen in the store are priced higher than the $40 value of the coupon; albeit not by much.

The problem with the CECB program is the markup that the retailers impose on the price. For Best Buy's house brand, Insignia has an entry level DVD player at $30 while the CECB retails for $60. I'm not convinced that the CECB is more expensive to manufacture than the DVD player; the retailers are just ballooning it.

If the sale price of a CECB is less than $40 before the coupon, then the retailers can only claim that portion of the coupon's value, so they have no incentive to sell it for less. While the consumer should understand the function and significance of the box is priceless, retailers and manufacturers are inflating the prices, victimizing the public and bankrupting the government program.

Going back on topic, Boston and neighboring markets.

WBZ's newscast had an article on the delay last night, making little or no mention that many broadcasters will elect to shutoff on February 17 unconditionally. They also updated their countdown clock at the end of the telecast to reflect the 120 days or so remaining. As a CBS O&O, WBZ will likely want to stay on the air and encourage tower tenants WCVB and WGBH to do the same.

So I guess WGBX 44 is also turning off analog? I've been seeing promos saying they are operating at reduced power.

Does analog interfere with the digital signal at all?

Yup, I remember Bill Fine saying during the interview he gave on Greater Boston recently that years of planning has gone into the logistics of this transition and to change it at the last minute would be completely impractical and only add to the confusion. He's right! I applaud WCVB for not giving in to the completely misinformed PC view of our DTV readiness and sticking to their original schedule. I hope all the other networks in Boston will follow suit. Phil Graham was right on, we have become a nation of whiners.

OK, I have to stop writing about this subject now before I get banned. :D

Even on the radio shows of oof the hook and off the wall they mensioned as to what good is four more months really going to do? The other thing is the arguement that people would be "cut off" frankly I think is a insult to many people. There's still newspapers, magazines and radio. The internet is in most libraries and schools.

OK what if the same arguments are used again in another four months? If a box cost $40 well 40/120 means 33 cents a day would have to be saved up.

If they delay it again I'm predicting we're going to see most stations say "Sorry it's too much to keep them on" Like I mensioned before it will cost just one pbs station 100K a month to keep the transmitters for analog on.

This isn't exactly the only time the government mandates something and then takes it back. I know a guy who just started getting social security. He just discovered it's taxed...I'm half his age and I know that (greenspan commission in 1983) . I think EVERYONE knows about the transition now. It's simply a matter of affording the boxes I guess.

What's REALLY starting to get me a bit steamed is seeing things like this:
http://janesville.craigslist.org/hss/998245304.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/hss/1019111060.html
I don't think it's really that hard at all to hook up. Charging someone money for something that physically takes what...two minutes at most is pretty weak (scanning with a box will take some time but big deal) This I'd say is nearly predatory

I called WCVB ch. 5 today and they confirmed that are going to shut off their analog signal on Feb.17. So it will be an interesting situation on Feb 17-18 to see what happens.

Interesting- this Broadcasting & Cable article says "<part cut> Hearst-Argyle had pledged to keep the vast majority of their stations on until June 12."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173682-FCC_Releases_Rules_For_Implementing_DTV_Date_Switch.php

Obviously 'CVB is not a part of the "vast majority"....

It does make sense that the stations on temporary DTV channels won't be allowed to move to their final channel except by special request- since some analog channels won't move until 6/12.

6/12 will be here soon enough- and for folks who are finding out that they need to mess with an outdoor antenna, June will be a better month to do that than February! (although hey- it is supposed to hit 50F this weekend! My personal weather station says it is 6.6F right now.) :)

Does analog interfere with the digital signal at all?

I believe signal overload can be an issue with neighboring channels, especially with analog channels. I noticed my reception of WHDN 26 improved at the time WFXT's transmitter started failing. It's certainly less of an issue with digital channels neighboring each other, which explains the auctioning of all frequencies over channel 51.

I don't see why WGBX would stay on the air, especially since 44 neighbors its DT-43 position, the transmitter is failing, and WGBH has a market duopoly anyway. Any owner of two stations in a market should shut off at least one analog signal on the 17th. This way, the hotlines aren't as jammed and they can still reach their audience.

6/12 will be here soon enough- and for folks who are finding out that they need to mess with an outdoor antenna, June will be a better month to do that than February!
I'm pretty sure that most people who don't have an antenna right now don't really have anything to worry about as they probably have cable, FIOS, or satellite. Most people who already have an antenna just need to hook it up to a digital tuner.

All the delay till June is going to accomplish is to allow people to procrastinate a bit longer - just like people who wait till the night before the due date to start writing a paper for school. For the people who simply can't afford to upgrade I'm sorry but it's not like their electricity or water will be shut off.

Interesting- this Broadcasting & Cable article says "<part cut> Hearst-Argyle had pledged to keep the vast majority of their stations on until June 12."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/173682-FCC_Releases_Rules_For_Implementing_DTV_Date_Switch.php



And that same article in Broadcasting and Cable goes on to say:

"Stations who want to make the switch after Feb. 17 but before June 12 will not be able to do so between Feb. 18 and March 14, according to the FCC.

The commission did not waive its 90-day notification rule for anyone not going Feb. 17 because, they said, "Unlike the legitimate station expectations that support the partial waiver for analog terminations on February 17, stations cannot have reasonably relied on plans to terminate analog service after February 17 because such operation would have been contrary to existing law."

Sounds like typical government double-talk but if I'm interpreting that correctly, any station who does not shut off analog at the end of the day on the 17th can't do it until at least after March 14th because of some obtuse notification rule?

Key phrase in that quote from the article is "after Feb. 17". I assume that if a station still intended to keep the 17th as their shut-off date, they could still do so without jumping through hoops?

Wow, and they thought the public was going to be confused by the events of the original date? Maaaan.....

Can anyone manage to pick up WZMY up in derry? Guy I talked to in email said they are @ 7.3kW, and says if they go higher it will interfere with other stations in the area.

...What's REALLY starting to get me a bit steamed is seeing things like this:
http://janesville.craigslist.org/hss/998245304.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/hss/1019111060.html
I don't think it's really that hard at all to hook up. Charging someone money for something that physically takes what...two minutes at most is pretty weak (scanning with a box will take some time but big deal) This I'd say is nearly predatory
Not really. Some friends of mine recently tried to hook up two converters in their house, and got confused and couldn't do it. I dropped over and it took me about 2 minutes each to connect, and about 10-15 minutes to scan the available channels (by the way, we picked up over 20 channels with the new box using rabbit ears). Although it is easy (for us), some people get overwhelmed. $30 for a house call doesn't seem unreasonable to me, unless you can convince your Congressman to stop by and help you with it for free.

Mickey

What's REALLY starting to get me a bit steamed is seeing things like this:
http://janesville.craigslist.org/hss/998245304.html
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/hss/1019111060.html
I don't think it's really that hard at all to hook up. Charging someone money for something that physically takes what...two minutes at most is pretty weak (scanning with a box will take some time but big deal)

If it only took two minutes why were your confused friends stuck trying to do it for 15 minutes? One guy is charging a whole $30 and the other is charging $20. Have you considered underpricing them with say $10? $free? If the clients are happy with the service, what's the problem.

Can anyone manage to pick up WZMY up in derry? Guy I talked to in email said they are @ 7.3kW, and says if they go higher it will interfere with other stations in the area.

I'm in Marblehead MA and receive it just find using a DIY indoor antenna.

I'm in Marblehead MA and receive it just find using a DIY indoor antenna.

I'm in salem and I can't get them at all :( Only once in a blue moon it will come in with drop outs

The White House wants your opinion on The DTV Delay ACT Bill
President Obama wants to hear what the public has to say, you can comment here

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/dtv_delay_act/

Can anyone manage to pick up WZMY up in derry? Guy I talked to in email said they are @ 7.3kW, and says if they go higher it will interfere with other stations in the area.

I'm in Haverhill, and WZMY comes rockin' in here! I get 93 out of a possible 100 in signal strength with an attic U/V antenna.

I'm in salem and I can't get them at all :( Only once in a blue moon it will come in with drop outs

me too WZMY is a joke!
have better luck getting it at night

WZMY claims their range is 31 miles to BOSTON,thats a bunch of bull

If it only took two minutes why were your confused friends stuck trying to do it for 15 minutes? One guy is charging a whole $30 and the other is charging $20. Have you considered underpricing them with say $10? $free? If the clients are happy with the service, what's the problem.

You are confusing what I said with the person that replied after me.

I just think it is a bit of a exploitation to try to charge for hooking up for a few wires. It reminds me of why I walked out of circuit city when they tried to charge me $200 for someone to come over and "calibrate" the colors

For anyone who can't get WZMY, try tuning in to WNAC in Providence at 11:30 PM, as they show Friday Night Smackdown in glorious HD :).

Do WZMY realize how many viewers they are losing? I was able to catch their analog channel with some snow, grainy but watchable.

Sound quality of their analog channel was horrible. Instead of broadcasting in stereo, they were in mono.

It reminds me of why I walked out of circuit city when they tried to charge me $200 for someone to come over and "calibrate" the colorsIt is pretty easy to disparage the work of others, when you personally don't value that work. However, note that there are (private) calibraters here on the forums, and you're basically telling them that their time and expertise is worthless. Things can be worth something without being worth that much to you.

It is pretty easy to disparage the work of others, when you personally don't value that work. However, note that there are (private) calibraters here on the forums, and you're basically telling them that their time and expertise is worthless. Things can be worth something without being worth that much to you.
Agreed and there's a HUGE difference between a professional calibration and hooking up a converter box. I can see how some people can't handle hooking up a converter box (most of us have parents :D) even though it would take me only a minute or 2, but only a small percentage of people can do their own calibration and get it right (not even factoring in the cost of the proper equipment).

Anyone know if Channel 7 going to all digital this month or if they're putting it off?

The FCC has published a list of stations (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-221A5.pdf) terminating analog signals on or before February 17. See page 5 for Boston/Manchester and page 35 for Providence.

This list is based on the procedures for early termination specified on February 5, requiring stations who intend to terminate analog on or before 2/17 to file their notifications to the FCC by midnight last night, February 9.

WLWC 28 is not listed as terminating early on this table, despite the fact that they shut off analog on December 9.

WLWC 28 is not listed as terminating early on this table, despite the fact that they shut off analog on December 9.

Which only tells me they STILL haven't filed their paperwork with the FCC.

- Trip

and it looks like the Boston stations have all wimped out.

mdovell: I agree with you that for people on this forum it's a pretty easy process, but I can't believe you have issue with the price point - given the world we live in. Cable companies get $75 to show up at your door, industry retailers sell monster cables that are unnecessary and charge outrageous fees for what usually is a simple process. Many consumers buy stuff they don't need everyday. If either of those two people deliver what they say they will - what do you care. You can take care of your relatives and friends free, but 20 - 30 dollars for an installation for someone who needs their service is cheap. I bet you there will be some great electronic finds soon as innocent people dump "yesterdays" technology!

I'm not putting down anyone that does it professionally. It's just the way this person was offering and selling the service was unprofessional at the very least. And it also insisted that the only way to get hdtv programming was with satellite or cable. That's what caused me to snap and leave because I had an old voom box that picked up some ota stuff.

Also to note about 40% of stations ARE dropping analog next week
www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a5d0CXoS6lLo&refer=us

I posted this yesterday but the local Boston thread seems (perhaps) a better thread.

I have a Toshiba 32HL95 (Digital) TV with TVGOS. The TVGOS has been working fine for as long as I've had the set.

I live in the South End of Boston (02116) and have Comcast basic cable. The TVGOS listings disappeared about 3 days ago (2009/02/08) and haven't come back yet despite trying various reset sequences for the TV and the TVGOS.

I'm interested in how other people on Boston Comcast are doing? Do you still have listings? Did yours disappear as well?

The comcast lineup changed about the same time and I'm suspecting (given the proximity to 2/17) that they stopped broadcasting analog signals directly and started converting the digial feed to analog themselves.

I've heard something about there now being TVGOS info on WBZs digital transmission but I'm pretty sure my version 8 TVGOS can't deal with that anyway

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
ddartmouth

?Seen this one about the DTV transition yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy-pD-M0rY4

Also to note about 40% of stations ARE dropping analog next week
www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a5d0CXoS6lLo&refer=us (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a5d0CXoS6lLo&refer=us)

Not in Boston.

2,4,5,7,9.27.38.44.48,56.and 68 are all wimping out.

OK 50 already did ,25 has practically done so (with a VERY weak analog signal) and 11,60,and 62 are sticking with the original deadline.

I llost all 4 of WBGX's channels. All I'm pulling in are 4.1, 7.1, and 7.2......

what stations around here are going full digital early?

I am still receiving all four 44's.

WHDH is going back to 7 (VHF high ?) so i'm guessing their signal might get better?

Did anybody see any flickering on WHDH tonight @ ~12:00AM during the Tonight Show? I thought my TV was about to crap out but I switched over to Letterman and that looked fine.

I noticed when they do the afternoon newscast (HD) the peoples hair color is like metallica silver. I don't think it's my tv. The hair has silver lines through it.

WHDH is going back to 7 (VHF high ?) so i'm guessing their signal might get better?Assuming your HDTV is hooked up to an antenna who's performance is accepting within that band.

Did anybody see any flickering on WHDH tonight @ ~12:00AM during the Tonight Show? I thought my TV was about to crap out but I switched over to Letterman and that looked fine.

Yes, I noticed that too.

I posted this yesterday but the local Boston thread seems (perhaps) a better thread.
...

I'm interested in how other people on Boston Comcast are doing?
...

Any suggestions?



Yeah. Try posting in a forum targeted at Comcast users. This is a forum for OTA as antenna users.

WZMY-DT 35.1 (50.1 mapped) is coming in @ 37% for me right now. Did a re-scan and the TV grabbed it.

Can't wait for smackdown :)

Yeah. Try posting in a forum targeted at Comcast users. This is a forum for OTA as antenna users.

Rick, this is not simply a Comcast issue. Comcast dropping their TVGOS signal can impact OTA people as well. Many STBs and TVs from a few years ago depended upon on getting the TVGOS signal in order to schedule recording of OTA broadcasts. I have a LG-LST3410A that I used to use this way. I now have to use it like a VCR to setup a manual schedule, but even that is tricky because the clock gets confused on a daily basis.

To re-iterate the original question. Which local stations will be broadcasting the TVGOS signal, and does anyone know if those digital boxes can convert it to an analog signal that a 5 year old STB can use?

By the way, I bought a TivoHD for OTA recording as soon as they were available. It gets its guide via the Internet and I do not need to depend on TVGOS any more. One of the best purchases I ever made, even if I do need to pay a monthly fee.

This has been discussed in some more TVGOS specific threads. See http://www.macrovision.com/dtv/10053.htm for more details.

This is just in this afternoon from the Providence Journal:

http://newsblog.projo.com/#447990

The FCC has told WNAC FOX 64 to stay on for two weeks after Feb 17th and WLNE ABC 6 for an additional two months after the 17th to broadcast DTV transitional information and local news - no other programming.
Only WJAR NBC 10 and WPRI CBS 12 will shut off the analog on the 17th.

This idea of staying on the air after the original date is a waste of time and money in my opinion.

after WJAR shuts off analog 10, I'm assuming WWDP in Norwell will be using 10 as their digital channel?

"In December 2008 WWDP silenced its digital signal, which was being broadcast over channel 52, in order to replace that antenna with a new one for channel 10, which is to be its post-transition home. However, WWDP can not start broadcasting on channel 10 until after the transition, since that is the home of WJAR-TV's analog channel. As a result, WWDP will not have a digital signal until February 2009."

It sucks that not many networks around boston are shutting down analog until june.

With BOTH 2 and 44 wimping out and waiting till June I will NEVER give to public broadcasting (not that I ever did)

would we really need wwdp? No offense but I think the worst things on tv are infomertials and shopping channels. I rather see a weather channel or reruns of something else...

With BOTH 2 and 44 wimping out and waiting till June I will NEVER give to public broadcasting (not that I ever did)Well at least you're honest about how empty your gestures are. :D

WGBX is already operating their analog channel at reduced power anyway, I lost them for reasons unknown.

WZMY is coming in loud and clear though :D

I posted this yesterday but the local Boston thread seems (perhaps) a better thread.

I have a Toshiba 32HL95 (Digital) TV with TVGOS. The TVGOS has been working fine for as long as I've had the set.

I live in the South End of Boston (02116) and have Comcast basic cable. The TVGOS listings disappeared about 3 days ago (2009/02/08) and haven't come back yet despite trying various reset sequences for the TV and the TVGOS.

I'm interested in how other people on Boston Comcast are doing? Do you still have listings? Did yours disappear as well?

The comcast lineup changed about the same time and I'm suspecting (given the proximity to 2/17) that they stopped broadcasting analog signals directly and started converting the digial feed to analog themselves.

I've heard something about there now being TVGOS info on WBZs digital transmission but I'm pretty sure my version 8 TVGOS can't deal with that anyway

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
ddartmouth

I just posted in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15817971&postcount=13765) that the Comcast analog host has just changed from WGBH on ch 97 to WBZ on ch 97. My device is able to use WBZ-DT to receive digital TVGOS, but it found itself locked back on analog 97 for the first time in awhile. I was surprised to find WBZ in that slot on Comcast's lineup.
I am wondering if Comcast can convert WBZ-DT's feed to analog and preserve the TVGOS information or if WBZ has added TVGOS to its analog transmission. Maybe Mr. Yankowitz from WBZ has some information regarding this change.

would we really need wwdp? No offense but I think the worst things on tv are infomertials and shopping channels. I rather see a weather channel or reruns of something else...

WHDH had weather plus on 7.2 and they removed it in december. That was a bad decision IMO. Perhaps they could have left weather plus on 7.2 and put THIS on 7.3, but alas....

WHDH had weather plus on 7.2 and they removed it in december. That was a bad decision IMO.How often did you sit and watch commercials on WeatherPlus? or watch 7-1 simply because WeatherPlus was on 7-2? :confused:

Perhaps you meant that it was an unfortunate decision.

having one weather channel was somewhat nice. what happened to 5.2's doppler?

I'd like to see just one weather and just one traffic. Obviously they wouldn't be high ratings but it would be nice.

Does any one know how much of the bandwidth is left to 7.1 now?

15 Mbps.

I just posted in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15817971&postcount=13765) that the Comcast analog host has just changed from WGBH on ch 97 to WBZ on ch 97. My device is able to use WBZ-DT to receive digital TVGOS, but it found itself locked back on analog 97 for the first time in awhile. I was surprised to find WBZ in that slot on Comcast's lineup.
I am wondering if Comcast can convert WBZ-DT's feed to analog and preserve the TVGOS information or if WBZ has added TVGOS to its analog transmission. Maybe Mr. Yankowitz from WBZ has some information regarding this change.
WBZ feeds Comcast with an analog feed, separate from the HD feed Comcast takes off-air. This feed will continue beyond the analog shutdown date in June. The signal you are receiving on virtual channel 97 should be identical to the one you get off-air. I have been in touch with the Comcast folks about this. They will look into the feed to see if they have done anything incorrectly when changing from WGBH to WBZ on the virtual channel 97.

According to my colleague, Comcast "has always included a channel map position (channel 97 or 98 in the lineup in the Boston DMA ) that pointed to WGBH ANALOG so older cable card equipped sets (those that couldn’t handle the newer embedded TVG1/2/TVGOS data streams) could find the data in the VBI [Vertical Blanking Interval]. The funny thing about cable card sets is that once you insert a cable card, they will only tune channels that are present in the map of ours that it loads. We also do not encode VBI lines other then 21 in our MPEG2 streams. So if we don’t do this, VBI dependent cable card sets with cable cards wouldn’t find Gemstar VBI."

My colleague tells me he will send this thread to Gemstar to see if there is an explanation of the behavior you are describing.

on WHDH during the HD newscast the peoples hair looks shiny silver and little speckle dots too

According to their website (http://www.nhptv.org/pressroom/release_detail.asp?hp_id=783), NHPTV will shut down their full power analog signals and activate DT-11 at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday morning.

I'll see if I can tune in and watch history happen if my reception is any good.

WBZ's DTV countdown clock is counting down to midnight..

http://wbztv.com/dtv

What will happen when it reaches zero?

WBZ's DTV countdown clock is counting down to midnight..

http://wbztv.com/dtv

What will happen when it reaches zero?
Nothing.

It would be off by a day anyway, if we were sticking to the original date. WBZ will be shutting off its analog transmitter on June 12 (between June 12 and 13). The actual count (as of right now) is 115 days...

The actual count (as of right now) is 115 days...

I'll bet that will be a number constantly in your head that you won't need to stop to calculate over the next 115 days. :(

According to their website (http://www.nhptv.org/pressroom/release_detail.asp?hp_id=783), NHPTV will shut down their full power analog signals and activate DT-11 at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday morning.

I'll see if I can tune in and watch history happen if my reception is any good.

They just pulled the plug!

and I missed it.

According to their website (http://www.nhptv.org/pressroom/release_detail.asp?hp_id=783), NHPTV will shut down their full power analog signals and activate DT-11 at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday morning.

I'll see if I can tune in and watch history happen if my reception is any good.At my location near Lowell and with my atic antenna, DT-11 is a lot stronger then the DT-57 they were using before. DT-57 would breakup sometimes so I had to watch analong 11 before they switched.

Thank you NHPTV for not waiting 4 more mounths. :)

My antenna:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14299317

Off by a day.. off by 3 months.. the point is that stations are not making their plans clear on their web sites. This just adds to the confusion!

[QUOTE=MikeySoft;15841842]At my location near Lowell and with my atic antenna, DT-11 is a lot stronger then the DT-57 they were using before. DT-57 would breakup sometimes so I had to watch analong 11 before they switched.

Thank you NHPTV for not waiting 4 more mounths. :)



Just the opposite in Manchester, NH DT-57 (which is still on) is much stronger than DT-11. DT-11 has alot of pixelation. I'm guessing they are not full power at this point.

Just the opposite in Manchester, NH DT-57 (which is still on) is much stronger than DT-11. DT-11 has alot of pixelation. I'm guessing they are not full power at this point.
I think they are still doing some work. DT-11 was being displied as 70.1 & 70.2 but now it is displaied as 11.1 & 11.2. I am very happy with DT-11. :)

Make sure you are not using a UHF only antenna. Because DT-11 is on RF 11 which is not UHF.

Ch 9 and CH 7 will be changing to rf 9 and rf 7 when they switch and people who only have a UHF antennas may also have problems with them.

Should it be antennas or antenni? :)

How 'bout displayed instead of either of your two choices. The plural of antenna is antennae for animal appendages and antennas for the way you used it.:)

I can't get WENH to come in. I thought VHF was stronger then UHF? Are they at low power or something?

I can't get WENH to come in. I thought VHF was stronger then UHF? Are they at low power or something?WENH 11.1 / 11.2 coming in strong and clear here. Make sure you are not using a UHF only antenna. Did you do a rescan?

my antenna recieves both. All I get is 7.1,7.2, and 35.1 (WZMY in derry NH).

Weird how I can get WZMY to come in but not WENH.

my antenna recieves both. All I get is 7.1,7.2, and 35.1 (WZMY in derry NH).

Weird how I can get WZMY to come in but not WENH.I believe 7.1/7.2 is still operating on RF 42 until June. Posting your tvfool plot may help to understand what is going on.

The delay until June also causes some confusion because some stations have switch today, others will switch later.

the problem I have is that there are 2 hills and high house blocking the signals from getting through. All my stations are 1edge and 2edge. No line of sight because something is blocking it.

post transition chart

http://i39.tinypic.com/2hovh1c.png

I have also lost 9-1. I assume they must have gone back to 9RF also.

I have also lost 9-1. I assume they must have gone back to 9RF also.
I don't bother with 9 because I watch 5.1 but I just checked.

9.1 is still using RF 59.

Must have been a temporary outage as it is back.

Since a few channels are going back to VHF-high I'm gonna have to find a good indoor antenna that does vhf-high and UHF.

Since a few channels are going back to VHF-high I'm gonna have to find a good indoor antenna that does vhf-high and UHF.

on my second tv i use the $14.99 Walmart antenna the one that looks like a Bat :D
Gets me 26 channels!

I seen that antenna and the reviews on best buy says it sucks. Only good if you're 12 miles out.

I seen that antenna and the reviews on best buy says it sucks. Only good if you're 12 miles out.


Thats not true,
i'm 35 miles+ from the boston towers and this thing is kiddie cornered on a back window of my house.All Boston stations except WHDN-LP come in rock solid!
I cant get wzmy and i'm only 14 miles from the transmitter
I can get channels 60 and 21 out of NH too.
I did my rescan and WENH on RF-11 is the best ever at 98 %:D