Originally posted by Prelude2k
Is the WGBH transmitter in the same location as WBZ, WHDH, etc? I'm getting severe multipath with 75% of the signal, while WGBY is at 50% and crystal clear and going MUCH farther for me and thru the Berkshires. Was just curious since the other stations are rock solid.

WFXT has been pretty clear to me with about 75% of the signal, but I do get occasional drops once or twice and hour for no apparent reason.

-Mike

WGBH operates from the same tower, in fact the same antenna that WBZ and WCVB use. WFXT is on a separate tower within a mile of the WBZ tower. WHDH operates on their own tower about a 1 1/2 miles from the WBZ antenna. All from Needham/Newton at exit 19 on 128.

Noticed the grey bars are gone from WHDH-DT now. Did anyone notice anything special about Leno last night?

I noticed the grey bars were gone, but they were also back to 408i.

On my DISH6000 I am getting WHDH on channel 42, not 7, and only getting 42-2 which seems to be a 480i signal. 42-1 is blank. Did they switch their new encoder off?

I managed to play around with my tuner and antenna last night (having a rotator is really nice) and I've determined that I think the problems I'm seeing are just plain due to a mediocre signal strength from WFXT-DT. Probably due to the very windy conditions last night I couldn't maintain a lock on them for very long at all. But when it did lock, I continued to see the same occassional freezes/pixelizations/blanks as before. So, I guess it seems like the tuner can "lose" a signal momentarily without actually losing the lock. This must be what I've been noticing the past few days. I hope WFXT isn't transmitting at full power or I may just be SOL on receiving them except during the most ideal of weather conditions. Anyone know if their at full power?

Oh yeah, one other thing, using my receiver's native mode I was able to verify WFXT-DT is NOT transmitting 720p since I get a watchable signal in this configuration (Elite 510HD won't display 720p, only 1080i.) I didn't confirm what format it was, but likely 480p as before.

Happy Holidays to all!!

Originally posted by Sal
On my DISH6000 I am getting WHDH on channel 42, not 7, and only getting 42-2 which seems to be a 480i signal. 42-1 is blank. Did they switch their new encoder off?

I think they are still testing the HD channel. I don't know if the receiver piece from NBC is installed yet.

Keep hoping for Leno to show up in HD (despite preferring Letterman).

Interesting enough on the DTS-3000 I think it was mapping 42-2 and not having a mapped number from 42-1, which could be mannually keyed.

Haven't checked this AM.

Tim

Wondering if we'll see:

'River of Iron: Dreams Of A Grand Canyon Railroad'

tonight on 2-1????

Tim

For those who can receive the signal, NHPTV will show 'River of Iron: Dreams Of A Grand Canyon Railroad' tonight at 10:30 PM on their digit channel 57.

A safe a happy holidays to all.

Ron

Originally posted by rudolpht
Wondering if we'll see:

'River of Iron: Dreams Of A Grand Canyon Railroad'

tonight on 2-1????

Tim

Tim, I hate to tell you this but we have a better chance of seeing the AFC Playoffs in HD. Sorry old buddy!

In case you folks may have missed it, apparently WLVI-DT 41 is delaying its OTA debut until 5/1/02, according to Titantv.com. Oh well, I guess its no big deal since WB does no HD programming.

Originally posted by Benji
Tim, I hate to tell you this but we have a better chance of seeing the AFC Playoffs in HD. Sorry old buddy!

All I want for Christmas is my 2 HD, my Channel 2 HD, My Channel 2 HD. All I want for Christmas is my 2-1 HD, a little power on Fox, and HD on 42.....

rOmar:

Have you had any luck with the FOX signal? You are about 20 miles South of my location and I am wondering where the cliff is.
I believe someone in Dover was able to get it for a short while
before they cut back on the signal.

Steve

Originally posted by rudolpht


All I want for Christmas is my 2 HD, my Channel 2 HD, My Channel 2 HD. All I want for Christmas is my 2-1 HD, a little power on Fox, and HD on 42.....

Have you been naughty or nice this past year?

Santa

Steve

I am using a RS 15-623 double bow with a CM7775 signal amplifier sitting on top of my 610 with a Dish 6000 W/OTA unit (2nd floor). I figure I am 60 miles NNE from the HD Tower in MA and I am receive signal strengths of 80-90 on the 3 Networks, 55 from FOX (was at 65-70 before), and 70 for NHPTV in Durham. Hope this helps.

Ron

Ron or others,

My summer home is in Kennebunkport, ME - I figure about 95 miles away. What do you think my chances are of getting OTA from Boston? Thanks.

I am about 65-70 miles out (capecod) and get signals in the 90's no sweat. I think 95-100 miles out might be too far though.

I am using a wineguard hd8200 with the cmpreamp and cm rotor

Good luck - hope it works for you. Be sure you let us know.

John

Originally posted by sdf777
Ron or others,

My summer home is in Kennebunkport, ME - I figure about 95 miles away. What do you think my chances are of getting OTA from Boston? Thanks.

This is just a guess on my part but if you are using a rooftop antenna, I think you have a chance. WCVB and WBZ are both broadcasting at full power and are sending a very potent signal. I live about 35-40 miles south of the tower and get close to 90% on both with an indoor set-top antenna. I can get WHDH most of the time, as well as WGBH (when they are on) but have no luck at all with WFXT. You should be able to get the NH PBS station and WMUR (ABC) from Manchester.

I tuned in to "The Practice" last night on ABC (WCVB) and was disappointed the telecast was not HDTV. Anyone else experience this? My guess is someone at the station forgot to flip the switch.
Happy Holidays to All.

Originally posted by Bob Cupka
I tuned in to "The Practice" last night on ABC (WCVB) and was disappointed the telecast was not HDTV. Anyone else experience this? My guess is someone at the station forgot to flip the switch.
Happy Holidays to All.

I noticed that as well and turned the channel. Was it a current episode?

Did anyone see "Jingle All the Way"? There seemed to be something wrong with an irritating flicker at the bottom of the picture.

Originally posted by Bob Cupka
I tuned in to "The Practice" last night on ABC (WCVB) and was disappointed the telecast was not HDTV. Anyone else experience this? My guess is someone at the station forgot to flip the switch.
Happy Holidays to All.

This episode was a repeat. It was last year's season finale, before ABC began this series in HD.

Really a programming issue methinks, but probably valuable to place a pointer here also. Any feedback appreciated.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101890

I've been hiding for a while, I just noticed people out in the hills around Worcester are getting FOX again....How is the signal strength compared to WBZ and the rest of the Needham stations?
I still have not been able to get FOX, WBZ is only around 50%. It sounds as though I might need to get a taller mast for the antenna before it really snows.

Regarding FOX.

I live in Auburn MA. Using a rooftop antenna with an amp, I get about a 64% signal for WFXT-DT on my RCA F38310.

Much better now than before their recent blackout. Back then I only got just over 50%.

I usually get WBZ near 80%.

Hope this helps.

Ben

last time I checked WFXT-DT was close to WCVB and WBZ in signal strength or quality however you interpret the signal readings on the DTC-100. Signals are in the 88 to 94 range for all except WHDH.

I am getting 89-92% on WFXT. WBZ, WHDH, WCVB and HSN are all in the mid to high 90's%.

--Andy Garabedian

Thanks for the signal strengths. Looking at a map, most of the distance from ME is over water. I won't be there until late April, so I'll check it out then.

hi,
i am in merrimack NH using sony 34xbr2
to watch boston channel 4 & 5 using
radio shack vx-75r outdoor antenna *inside*
the bedroom.

channel 4 gives about 60% on the signal
strength meter.
channel 5 gives barely 50%. it is a bit tougher
to receive than channel 4.

so now i am watching lots of silly CBS shows
that i've never seen before ... and loving it!

question: when i watch NTSC on channel 4 in normal mode
it has width of N inches on the screen.
but when i watch the upconverted NTSC on
channel 4.1, the image width is larger -
perhaps N+1 inches or N+2 !
can anyone explain the reason for that?

thanks,

steve elias
eli@employees.org

tveli:

I don't know the reason, but it is something I have noticed with my setup which is a Mitsubishi 46" TV with the DTC-100 STB.

On a separate note, having been away for a few days I haven't checked. Has WHDH shown Leno in HD yet?

SMK

question: when i watch NTSC on channel 4 in normal mode
it has width of N inches on the screen.
but when i watch the upconverted NTSC on
channel 4.1, the image width is larger -
perhaps N+1 inches or N+2 !
can anyone explain the reason for that?

Bob Hess can probably give you the technical answer, but I'm guessing it has something to do with differing overscan...

hi - thanks for the replies - yes i hope
it is overscan and not an aspect ratio oddity.
it is good to know
that is likely not my tv setup being even more
odd. tonight i lost the picture due to aircraft.
this DTV/antenna thing is an interesting
nostalgic throwback to the 70s - great fun!
the window window is south facing so i have
seen nary a NH DTV picture. the signal
strength meter does clearly show WMUR's signal
is out there (30% or 40% at best), too low for the
TV to learn that 57.1/59.1/whatever.1
is really virtually 9.1 .
it's mostly no matter if i can pick up the
boston stations at >60 miles, in a valley,
and without an antenna or a 100" UHF boom...
i'd sure like to see NH PBS in HD however.
i spoke to their eng dude a year or three ago
but not recently. NH PBS gives 5% or 10%
signal strength at best so far, usually zero.
/e

Not sure if WFXT-DT increased power in the last several days or made other changes (or maybe weather?) but I was successfully able to receive them last night with no break-ups or other glitches. This differs greatly from the experience I had only a week ago where it was virtually unwatchable using the same antenna vector.

Also noticed that WHDH-DT is back at 42-1 on my TU-HDS20 and seems like they have gone back to SD, at least that's what my box indicates. Maybe problems with the upconverter? Or maybe they've finally received the HD receiver from NBC and are re-wiring everything...I think Jim said they were expecting to receive that this week.

Hope everyone's having a great holiday season!

has anyone noticed the large increase in artifacts on WCVB-DT? I am using a E* 6000 and viewing them using component outputs. The artifacts don't seem to be present on the S-Video outputs. It looks like the 6000 is having problems converting the 720p to 1080i. Alot of combing artifacts are present in all dark to light transitions.

All other DTV is coming in fine OTA and DBS.

Another Acton-ite.

I certainly have noticed this on my HD100. I have also notice this on other channels, specifically HBOHD and HDnet. In fact, it seems to be getting worse each week.

mikep

Originally posted by mikepa
Another Acton-ite.

I certainly have noticed this on my HD100. I have also notice this on other channels, specifically HBOHD and HDnet. In fact, it seems to be getting worse each week.

mikep

Interesting. I haven't noticed more artifacts on others but CVB appears to be giving me alot of trouble. The image is almost unwatchable. I have a 16:9 Toshiba and the pciture is displayed with black bars. The edge of the image (adjacent to the black bars) looks like an uneven fine tooth comb.

BTW, WBGH-DT is testing again today. They are feeding the PBS HD loop on 2-1 and showing WBGH on 2-2. The HD loop has alot of artifacts which are not present on the NHTV broadcast. They must be over-compressing to allow the 2-2 channel (which comes in with no artifacts). It appears they turned on the DTV transmitter at exactly 8:00 AM and briefly displayed a WGBH-DT bug in the upper right corner on the analog station when they started. I can't wait until they are full-time as I get some FM interference (probably my fridge or some other appliance) on channels 2 and 4.

In response to an e-mail inquirey I made this morning, Jim Shultis of WHDH said the 1080i transmitter is being installed as we speak, and should be ready sometime next week with full 16:9 1080i. As for WGBH, I am getting HD (w/artifacts) on 19-2 and SD (clean) on 19-3 on my DTC 100. Also there is a lip/synch problem on the HD 19-2 transmission.

Checked the following on a Dish 6000 OTA and a Toshiba DST-3000.

I'm not experiencing any artifacts on 2-1 (19-1) on the demo, but have been having lip sync issues there (last weeks Christmas musical special).

I'm not experiencing any upconvert issues on WCVB 720p - 1080i. I missed Alias this past Sunday, but it is typically good other than some historic banding.

Good news from WHDH, maybe a new years's present...??

Thanks,
Tim

hi,
maybe i am seeing some WCVB artifacts
too - but apparently not ue to 720p->1080i->rendering
conversion - because i saw these things
during their local news show. the artifacts are short vertical lines spaced regularly around the screen - maybe 100 of them.
they look like some sort of aliasing artifact to me. perhaps these are related to the artifacts that
others here have referred to? or maybe not,
since the ones i was seeing might be due
to some sort of upconversion aliasing.
the artifacts were only present during the
2 minutes of news i watched - they disappeared when they cut to commercial.
sincerely,
/eli aka tveli aka steve elias
ps - in other news, zero signal from channel
19.* as of about 8pm.
pps - i'm thinking of chopping off the VHF
portion of my VX-75R radio shack antenna.
i wonder if it will work the same for UHF afterwards... ppps - i finally saw one of my fave shows
in HD, NYPD on ABC. so far the cbs 1080i
pictures look sharper to me than ABCs 720p.. no surprise there i suppose.

Originally posted by tveli
hi,
maybe i am seeing some WCVB artifacts
too - but apparently not ue to 720p->1080i->rendering
conversion - because i saw these things
during their local news show. the artifacts are short vertical lines spaced regularly around the screen - maybe 100 of them.


I am seeing hundreds of short HORIZONTAL lines spaced evenly on all sharp edges. These appear on all 480p images. I haven't checked HD images. I am getting 90+ signal reading on the E* 6000 and all other DTV images are coming in fine. Only WCVB is giving me a problem. It started happening about 2-3 weeks ago. If someone has a 6000 and is receiving WCVB-DT, could you check for this on any 480p program. I am starting to suspect some sort of hardware problem with the 6000 but I'm not sure since all other stations come in clear. Maybe I can try power-cycling the box (puling the power cord). I leave the box powered on 24/7 normally.

BTW, has anyone been able to recieve the ABC affiliate from Manchester NH, recently?

Just now and most other times as well...

WCVB signal strong, good picture
WBZ signal strong, good picture
WFXT signal good, good picture
WHDH signal bad, receiver will not lock on, or it does and the picture is not watchable. Signal strength is highly variable it bounces good to bad. But, at times usually at night, the signal can be strong and steady.

Any clues? Will a mast mounted amplifier be the next thing to try? I'm currently using an 8-bay Winegard that is attic mounted over a one-story garage.

thanks...

NHPTV's channel 57 (WENH-DT) is back on the air. (There were transmitter issues starting last weekend).

Signal quality appears to be a little better, so
it might also be worth checking out alongside WGBH's channel 19 tonight. (Channel 57 is a straight pass-through of the PBS-HD satellite feed; Channel 19 is multiplexing the PBS-HD satellite feed along with the digitized channel 2).

Reminder:
NHPTV channel 57's normal schedule:
7-9pm evenings, 2-9pm weekends. (Stays on longer for the first-airing of the PBS HDTV programs.)

WBGH channel 19's testing schedule:
Thursdays 8am-4pm.
Fridays 4pm-1am.
(Lately has been PBS-HD + channel 2).

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit


I am seeing hundreds of short HORIZONTAL lines spaced evenly on all sharp edges.

Just for the heck of it go into the HD setup menu (Menu,6,1,9) and play some with the "Adjust" tab when you see that happening next time. It kind of sounds like the same issue other have seen (including myself) when watching certain ABC affiliates, if it's set too far in one direction side to side.

Originally posted by Benji
In response to an e-mail inquiry I made this morning, Jim Shultis of WHDH said the 1080i transmitter is being installed as we speak, and should be ready sometime next week with full 16:9 1080i. As for WGBH, I am getting HD (w/artifacts) on 19-2 and SD (clean) on 19-3 on my DTC 100. Also there is a lip/synch problem on the HD 19-2 transmission.

This is awesome news! Thanks Jim and thanks WHDH for bringing NBC-HD to Boston viewers.

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit


I am seeing hundreds of short HORIZONTAL lines spaced evenly on all sharp edges. These appear on all 480p images. I haven't checked HD images. I am getting 90+ signal reading on the E* 6000 and all other DTV images are coming in fine. Only WCVB is giving me a problem. It started happening about 2-3 weeks ago. If someone has a 6000 and is receiving WCVB-DT, could you check for this on any 480p program. I am starting to suspect some sort of hardware problem with the 6000 but I'm not sure since all other stations come in clear. Maybe I can try power-cycling the box (puling the power cord). I leave the box powered on 24/7 normally.


Believe it or not, trying powering off the unit, carefully pull out the 8VSB module and put it back. I had a similair problem for 2 weeks and I thought it was the antenna, then I thought I had a bad 8vsb. I took it out, wiped off excess dust, put it back in and not a problem since. WCVB when I first change channels might have green lines as it locks in, but normally under a second and I figure it's due to the 720p to 1080i conversion.

-Mike

....Jim. Can't wait to see Crossing Jordan in 1080i

NICE WGBH-HD tonight with the hymn chick!
just barely >50% on the signal strength
here in southern NH.
i gotta get spousal approval to put the antenna
outside. citing the federal law/ruling about freedom for antennas will not help...
with reception this good from the boston stations i don't have much reason
to point my antenna north to the NH stations.
btw i am noticing non-vertical artifact-like things on WCVBs upconverted NTSC.
i do not recall seeing any such problems with
their HD NYPD blue however.
/eli

This evening, I still wasn't getting a good picture from WGBH-DT. I was getting a very blocky picture that refreshed very slowly.

I checked the signal strength, and was only getting 79, while I was getting 100 on 4/5/7/25.

After a bit of futzing with the rotor, I'm now getting 100 on WGBH.

So, it seems they're a bit more sensitive to aim than the other channels. Any idea why?

-j

Originally posted by jeffw
This evening, I still wasn't getting a good picture from WGBH-DT. I was getting a very blocky picture that refreshed very slowly.

I checked the signal strength, and was only getting 79, while I was getting 100 on 4/5/7/25.

After a bit of futzing with the rotor, I'm now getting 100 on WGBH.

So, it seems they're a bit more sensitive to aim than the other channels. Any idea why?

-j

Tonight I was experiencing severe blocking with the WGBH signal both HD and SD. I have a roof top antenna in Boston's South end and can see the Needham antennas from the roof and a
Mits SR-HD5 STB with a signal of 79 on WGBH.
WFXT signal of 55 with moderate blocking.
No problems with WCVB WHDH or WBZ all at a signal level of 100.

Since WGBH is sending and SD and HD there is the issue of allocation of data bits to each channel. HD would most likely be easier to receive if all the available data bits are allocated to it. I'm suspect they might be experimenting to resolve the optimum allocations of data bits between HD and SD for best overall perfomance.

there could be severe multipath from WFXT and WGBH which is causing my problem. I may also be receiving WGBH interference from a LP NTSC station on Channel 19 from the PRU scheduled to change channels but has not done so to date.
I'll try to adjust the fixed roof antenna for optimum reception on the next warm day.

Brandish

Same problem as Brandish with WGBH.

Fairly good signal strength, bt picture totally unwatchable due to pixelation etc.

Originally posted by jeffw
This evening, I still wasn't getting a good picture from WGBH-DT. I was getting a very blocky picture that refreshed very slowly.

I checked the signal strength, and was only getting 79, while I was getting 100 on 4/5/7/25.

After a bit of futzing with the rotor, I'm now getting 100 on WGBH.

So, it seems they're a bit more sensitive to aim than the other channels. Any idea why?

-j

I have noticed the same thing before here in Attleboro.

Brandish,

Wasn't it you that told us that WGBH is on the same tower as WCVB and WBZ? I really have to spin the antenna rotator a good distance before I really lock in on WGBH (usually keep it in one place for WBZ, WCVB, WHDH, and WFXT with no problems). Like you said it must have something to do with their testing. Very weird.

Got 2-1 & 2-2 in 81-85 range with a little jumping in the numbers but picture on both rock solid until the wee hours last night. The SD channel could be better quality, but that isn't signal related.

Since the tower is the same, sounds like reflection issues at antenna or power strength issues at the transmitter. I remember we had ip[ sync issues for 30 early on and low power was partially to blame.

Tim

Originally posted by Andy_L


I have noticed the same thing before here in Attleboro.

Brandish,

Wasn't it you that told us that WGBH is on the same tower as WCVB and WBZ? I really have to spin the antenna rotator a good distance before I really lock in on WGBH (usually keep it in one place for WBZ, WCVB, WHDH, and WFXT with no problems). Like you said it must have something to do with their testing. Very weird.

Andy:
WGBH-DT along with WGBX NTSC Ch 44 uses the botton half of the DTV antenna about 40 feet lower than WCVB & WBZ.

Brandish

I'm wondering if the existance of the low power station at UHF 19 is contributing to the reception problems we're having with WGBH-DT?

When WGBH-DT isn't broadcasting, I was able get a reasonably strong picture from the spanish station...

-j

hi,

i picked up some of WENH-DT just now,
on channel 57 i think it was. i got just
enough signal for the tv to tell me
that the virtual channel number was 80. (?) .
so i tuned to 80.1 and got the same too-low
signal strength... 50% or just under - not
enough for the tv to try to display a picture.

question: being on the hairy edge of
resolvable signals, am i correct in observing that
atmospheric conditions are better for OTA
reception at night compared to daytime?
or is some other factor involved?
thank you.

Originally posted by jeffw
I'm wondering if the existance of the low power station at UHF 19 is contributing to the reception problems we're having with WGBH-DT?

When WGBH-DT isn't broadcasting, I was able get a reasonably strong picture from the spanish station...

-j

Jeff:

It is most likley that WCEA-Tv ananlog channel 19 from the Prudential building is causing you some if not all your WGBH-DT interference.

Brandish

Originally posted by jimg
NHPTV's channel 57 (WENH-DT) is back on the air. (There were transmitter issues starting last weekend).


How does one check the status of their transmitter? I went to set up my second antenna (RS double bow tie) to get them today, and couldn't receive anything.

I was seeing about 70% on my dish 6000 yesterday.

Okay, I suppose the obvious "if you're not getting anything, they're down" applies ;), but I'm curious if there's some sort of status or outage information available (like the tech line in Needham).

Thanks!
Steve (CoffeeBreath)

For those with reception problems, in the Boston area esp on channel 57 from weak and multipath laden signals:

I just got my 2 Blake JBX-21B (designed for US channels 33-57) up, side by side, complete with a tilt mechanism made from a satellite dish mover!

These replace my old customized antennas made from 4 Channel Master 4248's.

The Blakes are performing great!

Key points are:

1 They cut gain on low UHF, but not too much! So my ch 25 no longer overloads my 28 db preamp, and I was able to remove my notch filter, buying me about 2 db more signal!

2 The Blakes are actually less directional than my Channel Masters were, but they must have far more rejection of multipath at angles where they reject it, apparently. Most stations tune easier and with a few points better numbers, if they were below optimum before. My good stations like even channel 20 which is out of band for the antenna remained about the same with typical 88 readings on the RCA tuner.

3 At channel 57 the 2 Blakes seem to have more gain than my 4 channel Masters, by a few db. This is also noticable on analog channel 50 as less snow!

4 Angle is critical, and difficult stations can come in fine or become all pixelated with just a couple of degrees tilt change. This occurs over the range of the tilter (about +3 to + 13 degrees) and there are many stable points, with bad nulls in between except: On analog ch 36 (which I never even saw before) I got a snowy picture only at near max tilt. There is no sign of a station there at near level!

Tilt is non-critical on most local stations.

5 My RCA DTC-100 gets approximately 10 (much needed) points added to the signal quality number when tuned to channel 57! There will be bad days and good, but I should have lots more good ones.

6 I have had big problems getting a watchable ch 19 signal (wgbh) since they went to quasi-HDTV mode: My RCA was able to tune in one night with the Blakes, which I had been unable to do at all with the Channel Masters (but 19 worked when they did full HDTV mode for Evolution!) The next night it failed to get a usable signal though, so it remains to be seen how much help there is here --
But I got my Blakes mainly for 57.

My third problem channel is 42, and the Blakes help here making rotor aim far less touchy.
============================================
After finding I still had trouble with 19, I went and bought a Samsung tuner. This looks promising and has worked better for 57 and for 19 than the RCA:

Ch 19: I got it with the Samsung on one night when the RCA failed. Too soon to tell if this is a fix that will work regularly.

Ch 57: The Samsung seems to help especially when the multipath is dynamic and RCA meter fluctuates wildly say from 40-70. This is usually caused by windy nights blowing my antenna around.

jhe,

Good news.

Can you post your Blake source & model # again, and what tilt you use for 57.

Thanks,
Tim

Any news on the WHDH travails. Keep trying the 1135 PM hour when I think of it, but no HD.

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht
jhe,

Good news.

Can you post your Blake source & model # again, and what tilt you use for 57.

Thanks,
Tim

I got my Blakes direct from England at http://www.blake-aerials.co.uk/

For optimizing ch 57 I picked up 2 of the
JBX21-B, which are narrow band and have more gain at 57 than the wideband model. I need two side by side due to my severe multipath. But these are X element models of the type the BBC recommends for multipath rejection, so most people could possibly use just one.

As for tilt, 57 was one of the stations that got better and worse as I tilted upward, and there were several peaks where it was good. I don't have my tilter calibrated in degrees, but it goes between +3 to + 13 about, and I expect the optimum peak points may change with the weather, since I am behind a hill and only receive a bounce signal from the atmosphere. I think the periodic peaks and nulls are due to the ground bounce helping and degrading the signal as the phase changes. So this will also cause tilt changes with depth of snow for example. That is why I have a remote control for tilt! If you have more of a line of sight signal, tilt may be less critical and I would start at + 4 degrees and experiment from there.

I have a JBX-21WB that has never been used. If anyone is interested in it. I also have a Winegard 4800 pre-amp that bought with it. I never used it because the antenna I am using now, does a fabulous job.

e-mail me if any one is interested.

P Joy

WCVB-DT will air a locally produced HD Program on January 11 at 7:30PM.

Brandish

Must be a "Chronicle". Thanks for the info Ross. And Happy New Year!

Jim Shultis of WHDH and I traded emails recently, here they are:


Hi Jim,

Just a quick note to say Happy New Year to you and everyone you hold dear. I wondered if you could tell us all how you are doing with the encoder and receiver install for HD. I think someone said it was expected to be operational in a upconvert mode during the Holidays and running at 1080i by the end of this week....! Maybe I'm messed up on this.


Richard,

The good news; we have all the equipment in house (including the NBC HD receiver).

The bad news; the technician who traveled here the week before Christmas to set it up, botched the configuration. This is why we have been back on SDTV 42-1.

The technician will be back next week to make things work. Let's hope for HD by Wednesday evening.

Thanks for your patience,

Jim

Sounds like next week could be it ....! Cross everything you can cross

:D

So in about 1 week, we'll find out how big Jay Leno's chin really is!

I get ABC-HD Boston from Expressvu satellite. Tonight, for the first time, I see a bug in the lower right corner that says "DIGITAL WCVB-DT Boston" in addition to the ABC bug. Is this something new? I hope it is not a trend setter. What do the other Boston stations do?

Originally posted by Bogney Baux
I get ABC-HD Boston from Expressvu satellite. Tonight, for the first time, I see a bug in the lower right corner that says "DIGITAL WCVB-DT Boston" in addition to the ABC bug. Is this something new? I hope it is not a trend setter. What do the other Boston stations do?
WCVB-DT had been using this 'bug' almost since they first came on the air then discontinued it a couple of months back. It re-appeared in the last couple of days. None of the other Boston stations do this with the possible exception of WFXT-DT 31 which I can not always receive but I seem to remember that they were using it.

I'm new to HD, just got my Zenith 1080 hooked up last week. HDnet looks great, but I'd like to pull in some OTA stations out of Boston if possible.
Would like some feedback on type of antenna required. I am about 50 miles south of Boston in Westport MA.

Thanks for the info.

Len

Len,

Because you are new to HD my suggestion to you is to start at page 1 of this Boston thread and read. There is a wealth of knowledge about everything from equipment to the HD stations and how to get them, and everything in-between. I live fifty miles NE of the towers and receive all the stations. Enjoy your experience in HD, you’re going to love it.

Ron

I finally got a chance to catch WGBH-DT's (19-1 or mapped 2-1) friday night testing last night. Very nice picture quality, smooth transitions from 4:3 to full screen 16:9. But major Lip Sync issues as previously noted still exist. This was a little hard to spot because most of the stuff they were broadcasting was simply images and music, but a piece on Maryland outdoor life included some short dialog sections and the lip sync issue was as bad as I have ever seen.

Nearly every broadcaster in Boston had this problem when they first launched into HD, I wonder if Bob and the others could offer some guidance to the WGBH engineers so that they can benefit from what the pioneers have learned.

Just my 2 cents

Hey, thanks for the info r0mar.
What antenna are you using?


Len

Len,

I am using a RS 15-623 double bow with a CM7775 signal amplifier sitting on top of my Elite 610 with a Dish 6000 W/OTA unit. My HT is on the 2nd floor. I figure I am 60 miles NNE from the HD Tower in MA and I am receive signal strengths of 80-90 on the 3 Networks, 65-70 from FOX and 70 for NHPTV in Durham. Hope this helps.

Ron

Originally posted by Benji

WCVB-DT had been using this 'bug' almost since they first came on the air then discontinued it a couple of months back. It re-appeared in the last couple of days. None of the other Boston stations do this with the possible exception of WFXT-DT 31 which I can not always receive but I seem to remember that they were using it.


Does anyone know who to contact at WCVB about the bug? It's very distracting in it's current position. There's no reason why it can't be pushed further to the side of the screen....

-j

Background on my setup:

E*6000 w/8VSB
ChannelMaster 3023 Antenna
ChannelMaster 9521 Rotor
Direct run of RG-6 from antenna to receiver

I'm sure this is an isolated incident on my end but I have to ask anyway. Until yesterday morning I was receiving all available Boston locals OTA with no problems. Signal strengths in the upper 90's for WCVB & WBZ, slightly less for WHDH and even the occasional WFXT.

I turn on my TV yesterday and tune to 4-1 for WBZ. Wait, nothing, wait, nothing, receiver switches to 30-1 and hangs. Reboot and go into local channel setup to check signals. I now have no 4-1 listed under DTV channels, but I have 30-1 through 30-20! I check signal on 30-1 (WBZ), nothing. Check 42-2(WHDH), nothing. Same on 31-1(WFXT). WCVB still maps to 5-1 without a problem, but I'm only getting signals in the upper 50's to low 60's. Up until yesterday this was my strongest station.

I've checked all connections and swapped cables where applicable without any success. Pulled the 8VSB and re-inserted, pulled the card, hard-reboot, etc. Nothing seems to work.

Before I go through the hassle with DISH to RMA this 8VSB I figured I'd post here in case someone has been in a similar situation. Could this be anything but a bad 8VSB module? If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears. I'll probably call DISH tomorrow if I can't come up with another solution.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Chip,

As of 12:30 I am receiving all stations fine. Did you try and unplug (not just shut the power off) the 6000 for a few minutes and then plug it back in. I had trouble with signal strengths once, and that did the trick for me.

Ron

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. I did unplug the 6000 for about half an hour this morning without any success.

Earlier this afternoon I remembered that I had my old Silver Sensor antenna in the basement so I hooked that up. Whaddaya know? All stations available! Even FOX! There must be something wrong with my cable run from the attic antenna to the receiver after all. No need to RMA the 8VSB unit, which is a relief. I did not look forward to dealing with DISH on that.

Anyway, I was able to watch the second half of the Pats game OTA, so I'm happy. (DISH PQ on locals really has taken a dive over the last week) I'll deal with the wiring issue on the main antenna another day.

Thanks for your help.

I live in Wellesley and just bought myself a RS bow tie antenna with hopes of joining the HDTV world. Does it matter which direction the antenna faces? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, anyone have any luck with the megawave antenna (my wife can't stand the look of the bow tie)?

I am using one in southern NH and am getting WBZ, WCVB, WHDH (When it's on) and WFXT all at over 70 Percent al the time. I live on top of a large hill with a Souther exposer so I'm sure that helps but I have had no problems with the antenna. I am using a Dish 6000 with OTA card.

Ben

I am also looking for someone to contact at CVB about the bug placement. They are bad enough but to have one in the middel of the picture is awful.

The bowtie should be pointed at the towers in Needham. Orientation can be critical, even as close as you are.

The Megawave antenna has worked fine at my place in Hopkinton and seemed to compare equally to the Radio Shack indoor bowtie.

By the way, Megawave makes an amplified version of the antenna in addition to the normal un-amplified model. The amplified version made a little bit of difference at my place but, for your location, the model without the amplifier should work fine.

As usual, I always recommend an outdoor or at least an attic antenna. A channel Master 3021 on your chimney would be great. You will probably find that indoor antennas will not ever be absolutely perfect, especially as furniture gets moved around the house, leafs come out on the trees, buildings change around you, etc. The 3021 is a very low profile antenna.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ

Originally posted by rbbyb
I live in Wellesley and just bought myself a RS bow tie antenna with hopes of joining the HDTV world. Does it matter which direction the antenna faces? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, anyone have any luck with the megawave antenna (my wife can't stand the look of the bow tie)?

Originally posted by rbbyb
anyone have any luck with the megawave antenna (my wife can't stand the look of the bow tie)?


I tried the MegaWave MTV-1, but it didnt work very well for me. The Silver Sensor and the RS double-bowtie both worked better, but I eventually went with a roof mounted Channel Master for my best results. I bought the MegaWave for the looks of it, and based on the recommendation at a popular website, but it really didnt work well at my location.

Originally posted by alv
I am also looking for someone to contact at CVB about the bug placement. They are bad enough but to have one in the middel of the picture is awful.

I sent the following email to wcvbprogramming@thebostonchannel.com:

"Over the last several days I have noticed that your station has once again begun using a local "bug" on your digital broadcasts. (channel 20-1/5-1) It appears that the "bug" has been positioned in such a way that it occupies a spot in the lower right-hand corner of the screen on 4:3 broadcasts. During some such broadcasts it is actually covered over by the ABC "bug". When viewing 16:9 (HDTV) broadcasts, however, the bug is several inches above and toward the center of the screen. This is extremely distracting while viewing.

While I would prefer no "bugs" be used (due to RPTV burn-in issues) I can understand them being used to a limited extent in an unobtrusive way. The new WCVB-DT "bug" is neither limited or unobtrusive, and coupled with the ever-present ABC "bug" severely detracts from what is otherwise an excellent HD experience on WCVB-DT.

I, along with many other local DTV/HDTV enthusiasts, would appreciate your reconsidering the use of said "bug", or at the very least placing in such a way that it is less distracting.

Please let the powers that be know that we appreciate WCVB-DT's commitment to bringing ABC's HD material to the local market, and these comments are meant not to criticize but to inform.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter."

If you agree with my sentiment feel free to copy any portion of the above and send an email to WCVB-DT at the address provided.

I live in Newton near the Needham towers and have had trouble pulling in WCVB for some reason....WBZ, WFXT & WHDH come in fine. Tried the Terk 50 & Terk 55 outdoor antennas but can't pull all four stations at the same time. Thinking I might be too close to the towers, I picked up the amplified and unamplified versions of the Megawave today. Will try them at home tonight and report back here. Anyone have any thoughts why WBZ would come in so well and I would get so many dropouts on WCVB?.....they are both on the same tower!!

First, throw out the Terk stuff. Overpriced and underperforming. If you are that close, try rabbit ears first. Your Terks may be overloading the front end. You may also want to try the Rat Shack double bow tie as many have had great success. I live a bit over 40 miles from the towers and use a Rat Shack outdoor antenna in my attic and was able to pull in all channels without an amp. I recently added and amp when FOX was at low power to help boost my signal.

---Andy Garabedian

Thanks Andy...think you are right about overloading the front end. Will go with the bow tie if the megawave doesn't work.

Hi all,
I am new to this group and HDTV. Sorry if this has all been covered. I just purchased a Sony KDP-57XBR2 and live in South Easton, Ma. I have tried several indoor antennas (terk, RS bow tie, megawave) with an amplified RS one (sorry I can't remember model number ~$75) doing the best job. I get good strength numbers on 4 and 5, and around 60 for Fox. I can't seem to get any picture on 42 (nbc), however. Are they broadcasting? I know NBC doesn't do a lot of HDTV, but don't they broadcast an upconverted signal? What about PBS (19)? Are they broadcasting? Thanks for the help.

PS When I get non-HD material on cbs for example, the image is 4:3, yet my TV will not allow me to zoom the image (stays locked on full). I don't mind the grey bars but I am concerned about burn in. Can't the broadcaster do something about this?

Thanks again
Paul:)

Hi PJ and welcome to the AVS Forum (Boston Division). You don't live too far from me. I have 2 HDTVs, 1 in the living room and 1 in my bedroom, and use the same antennas that you have for both of them. I can't get WHDH in the living room (only about a 25% signal) but if I move my antenna around a bit in the bedroom can pull in about a 45-50, enough to get a picture. Try adding an extension to your antenna then experiment by moving it around and you may get lucky. As for burn-in, if you keep your contrast below 50%, you shouldn't have a problem. I've had by 65" for over a year and watch all my 4:3 programming w/ gray or black sidebars and have no evidence of burn-in.

I live in West Concord, Mass. I am getting a Pioneer HDTV this month, and am contemplating getting a STB as well.

Is there anyone in my general area here who is getting OTA HDTV? What antenna are you using? How is the reception?

Where can I find out exactly what content is being broadcast in HDTV? I know several stations are up and running, but not 24x7....is there an HD-TVGuide somewhere?

I am really new to HDTV, thanks for your patience.


Jeff Peake

Jeff,

I would start here (http://www.titantv.com) at Titan Tv for OTA stations in your area. You need to set up a login and go from there. It's usually pretty acurate.

I know there are a few AVS'ers from your area so hang in there and check out titan tv while you're waiting. Also take some time to go through this thread, you will learn a lot.

Good luck,

Andy

Jeff,
In the metro-Boston area, you'll be able to receive the local CBS and ABC digital stations and their HD programming. NBC and FOX also have digital OTA broadcasts but no HD content at this time. It's my understanding our NBC affiliate will soon bring their HD hardware online (hopefully for Olympic coverage).
I live in No. Andover and receive excellent reception with a roof mounted UHF antenna (not sure of brand but very inexpensive).
Hope this helps.

I am having trouble picking up WBZ tonight (1/7/02, it is snowing slightly). I have tried both my indoor (Terk 50) and outdoor (3021) antennas. I do not get even a blip from either with my Dish 6000. Luckily, I get the network feed out of New York and it is coming in great.

I tuned to FOX for a few minutes to catch Boston Public in Widescreen 480p, so I can decide if it is worth throwing a Superbowl party. What a drastic difference. WBZ and WCVB have spoiled me with HDTV. Still, it is the Superbowl. Hopefully there will be something good on another channel to show everyone how good digital tv can look. And the Olympics will be right around the corner...

I'm not getting audio on WXFT tonite. Anyone else?

-j

Originally posted by jeffw
I'm not getting audio on WXFT tonite. Anyone else?

-j

No audio here either except for the beautiful analog channel.

Originally posted by jeffw
I'm not getting audio on WXFT tonite. Anyone else?

-j

Audio's back, but now we're back to 4:3....

-j

Surprise, surprise, I'm not getting audio either. However, it appears that they changed something because I am now getting audio, but it is not widescreen anymore. Also, for my information, is the FOX logo supposed to be half cut off? All I see is an F and part of the O.
Btw, wbz is coming in at 86% now for me, I just had to go to the setup menu and re-map it. (I must not be one of the football fans that FOX is referring to in their press release "Receiving a digital signal is simplicity itself. Football fans need only purchase a digital TV receiver, connect it to their rooftop antenna and digital TV, sit back and enjoy the game").

Originally posted by woz
Also, for my information, is the FOX logo supposed to be half cut off? All I see is an F and part of the O.


Same for me. IIRC it's been this way since they started their digital broadcasts.

I think ch 25 must have had a problem with their FOX feed. I was watching the local broadcast of the Simpsons earlier and all was OK. Then when Boston Public came on ... no sound, although my receiver said I was getting "Dolby Digital 2.0" ... :(

I'm at my wits end now. Tried the Megawave last night and the Radio Shack indoor model with limited luck. Still can't find one position where I get all 4 HDTV stations....best I could do is have the RS in one position for WBZ, WHDH & WFXT and in another position for WCVB. Was up until 1:30am, my wife thinks I'm nuts. Never thought I would have this problem living in Newton 2 miles from the towers.

In my opinion, the best way to describe any INDOOR antennas is:

"You might get away with being able to use one"

And the best way to describe any OUTDOOR antenna is:

"Hopefully you live in a location where you can use one, because you just might need one"

Originally posted by eags
I'm at my wits end now. Tried the Megawave last night and the Radio Shack indoor model with limited luck. Still can't find one position where I get all 4 HDTV stations....best I could do is have the RS in one position for WBZ, WHDH & WFXT and in another position for WCVB. Was up until 1:30am, my wife thinks I'm nuts. Never thought I would have this problem living in Newton 2 miles from the towers.

Frankly, I am surprised but, not knowing your location, it is hard to say what the problem is. Reflections, ghosts in the analog world, are the death knell to DTV. Indoor antennas invite reflections from furniture around the house, warm bodies, buildings outside the house, etc. Reflections can also be caused by poor connections at the TV set. Your Radio Shack antenna is a 300 ohm antenna. I am assuming you are using a proper 300 to 75 ohm adapter for this antenna.

It looks like you are a candidate for an outside antenna. A small antenna on the chimney should work miracles. If you read back through this thread, you will find the name of a good installer.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

Originally posted by Bob Hess


Frankly, I am surprised but, not knowing your location, it is hard to say what the problem is. Reflections, ghosts in the analog world, are the death knell to DTV. Indoor antennas invite reflections from furniture around the house, warm bodies, buildings outside the house, etc. Reflections can also be caused by poor connections at the TV set. Your Radio Shack antenna is a 300 ohm antenna. I am assuming you are using a proper 300 to 75 ohm adapter for this antenna.

It looks like you are a candidate for an outside antenna. A small antenna on the chimney should work miracles. If you read back through this thread, you will find the name of a good installer.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

An outdoor antenna in the attic might be a lot better (than the indoor ant.) and easier if it's possible for you.

Thanks Bob and Andy....tried the Terk 50 & Terk 55 outside antennas and they were no better than the indoor ones no mattrer where I placed them (don't have an attic). I'm kind of in a low area...live near Mt Ida College...maybe thats my problem..I think I might try splitting the signal with one feed going to the Terk 50 outside where I get WFXT, WBZ & WHDH solid and one feed going to the Radio Shack indoor antenna in a position where I get WCVB solid...wish me luck ...Wasn't using an adapter...just used a regular 75ohm cable to connect to the Zenith 1080. Did I make a mistake?

Jeff (from West Concord),
I live down the street from you in South Acton. I use a Sony HD100 with a $40 Radio Shack (model #15-2152) in my attic. This is a Attic / Outdoor 80" Boom Antenna.

I receive WHDH, WBZ, WCVB and WFXT DTV between mid-80's and 100 % of signal strength. I have to tweak the antenna a bit do get Friday night-only broadcasts from WGBH and still get all of the others listed above. This may be the result of where I have it placed in my hip-roof attic and where my house sits above sea level.

I am sure others have a favorite antenna/STB combination, but this works fine for me.

mikep

Originally posted by eags
Thanks Bob and Andy....tried the Terk 50 & Terk 55 outside antennas and they were no better than the indoor ones no mattrer where I placed them (don't have an attic). I'm kind of in a low area...live near Mt Ida College...maybe thats my problem..I think I might try splitting the signal with one feed going to the Terk 50 outside where I get WFXT, WBZ & WHDH solid and one feed going to the Radio Shack indoor antenna in a position where I get WCVB solid...wish me luck ...Wasn't using an adapter...just used a regular 75ohm cable to connect to the Zenith 1080. Did I make a mistake?

I haven't witnessed performance myself, but from what I have heard the Terk antennas are awful. Maybe a small UHF/VHF antenna from the shack. Also, I found a nice book at RS on antennas that might help you out, it was about $5. Don't remember the title-sorry.

Andy

Originally posted by eags
...tried the Terk 50 & Terk 55 outside antennas and they were no better than the indoor ones no matter where I placed them (don't have an attic). I'm kind of in a low area...live near Mt Ida College...maybe thats my problem..I think I might try splitting the signal with one feed going to the Terk 50 outside where I get WFXT, WBZ & WHDH solid and one feed going to the Radio Shack indoor antenna in a position where I get WCVB solid...wish me luck ...Wasn't using an adapter...just used a regular 75ohm cable to connect to the Zenith 1080. Did I make a mistake?


Before you go and spend any more money, I can lend you a SilverSensor indoor UHF antenna that has very good multipath rejection (your symptoms and your proximity to the Needham towers point to multipath as a possible culprit...). Try it, and if it works, buy me a beer. And it looks pretty decent, so the wife will probably approve it.

The only reason I replaced it is because I bought a higher-gain UHF outdoor antenna so I could receive WENH-DT in New Hampshire.

And don't worry about making mistakes. I still have a Terk TV-42 that's in the garage as a reminder to me to do more research before I go out and buy an antenna...

I live in Marblehead, but I work in Bedford and at Hanscom. I could give it to you at lunch one day, as long as you tell you mother (or wife) that I'm not an Internet stalker. At least, you may think I'm not a stalker...:D

thanks Jon...sent you an e-mail:)

I wonder if the Terk HDTV-60 antenna would be the solution for
your reception problem. Since it does not have a good reputation anywhere else, it has to work somewhere and may be ideal for your situation. Priced at 400 bucks, make sure it can be returned for a refund, if it is a bone.

Steve...you see the size of that thing.....my wife would KILL me if I even tried to put that sucker up:)

Dimensions: 48 1/2" W x 13 1/2" H x 5" D, Yes it is a beast!

eags,

I'm not far from your location in Natick. I had been using the Terk TV50, and had been getting lots of multipath interference, particularly on WBZ 4-1. Also, my analogs like 38 and 56 were very snowy and basically unwatchable.

I had the Antenna Man from Beverly come today to check out my situation. First we tried moving the Terk from the South side of the house where it had been to the East side facing the towers. This seemed to fix the WBZ issue, but WCVB and WFXT now had tremendous multi-path!

Based on the tremendous input from this forum (thanks for the Antenna Man info Rick Scogland) and endless frustration, I decided that the Terk had to go. The Antenna Man recommended and installed the Channel Master 3021. Before switching from the Terk, 4-1 had been in the mid to high 80's with multipath jumping, 5-1 was 94, 25-1 was 88, and 42-1 was 76 (I'm using the DTC-100). Immediately after switching to the 3021, my signal strengths jumped up to 94's on 4-1, 5-1 and 25-1, and mid 80's on 42-1. All are now rock solid with zero multipath, and my analog's are snow free!

Although it killed me to throw out the Terk, I would definitely recommend it if you want to fix your issue once and for all.

Good luck.

lwhitman,
Thanks for your help. Tonight I split my antenna input to the Zenith STB(one indoor & one outdoor Terk 50....see my previous post on this)....seems to work now (i get all 4 HDTV stations with good signals.....no multipath on WCVB as before) ....not sure how long it will last....we'll see...if I haven't cured my problem tonight I most certainly will consider your path. How much did the Antenna Man charge for his services? Is he, as his name suggests, an "expert" regarding these problems?

eags,

Glad to hear your solution is working so far. If it doesn't hold up, the Antenna Man charges $60/hr labor plus materials. He is very knowledgeable and has been in the antenna business for 10 years.

Larry

Not to add insult to injury....but the Channel Master 3021 antenna, available from Stark Electronics in Worcester - www.starkelectronic.com - costs about $26. I recommend this antenna or the bigger 4228 to most of our WBZ viewers.

- Bob


Originally posted by lwhitman


Based on the tremendous input from this forum (thanks for the Antenna Man info Rick Scogland) and endless frustration, I decided that the Terk had to go. The Antenna Man recommended and installed the Channel Master 3021.

Can the 3021 replace the existing UHF element on an antenna that is installed. I ask because I wonder if the 3021 would solve my multipath problems with channel 5.1. My roof antenna works great for 4.1, 25.1, and 42.1(7.1), but I need to use a RS amplified UHF or the double bow tie to pick up 5.1 on 99% of the time. I'm tired of having to switch antenna inputs every time I move up or down the dial. Could the 3021 possibly solve my multipath problems?

Thanks---- Jay



Originally posted by Bob Hess
Not to add insult to injury....but the Channel Master 3021 antenna, available from Stark Electronics in Worcester - www.starkelectronic.com - costs about $26. I recommend this antenna or the bigger 4228 to most of our WBZ viewers.

- Bob

On the *SLIM* chance the DirecTV ever carries any network HDTV channels, which of the Boston networks are O&O (owned and operated) stations (which I assume would allow for us to automatically qualify)?

Originally posted by RScogland
On the *SLIM* chance the DirecTV ever carries any network HDTV channels, which of the Boston networks are O&O (owned and operated) stations (which I assume would allow for us to automatically qualify)?

Make that 2 choices: SLIM and NONE, with NONE being the 99.9% favorite. However, WBZ and WSBK are owned by Viacom (CBS) and WFXT is owned by FOX.

On a different note, WHDH-DT is up and running with it's 1080i upconverted 16:9 signal on 42-2 as of this moment. They are using gray sidebars. HEY TIM, you may get your 16:9 1080i LENO wish tnight!!!

Yahoo. Sounds like the Wed projection was a good estimate. And I'll be red-eying it back from CES tonight....

Nothing is automatic on the waivers, though with the help of the progressive local CBS management and MetallicaFreak, I was able to secure a waivers from WPRI in providence. I know it is crazy, and even crazier for Andover, but it was necessary for Dish.

The DirecTV reps said there will be one more HD station, but I agree with Benji's odds on it being a network.

Tim

Originally posted by RScogland
On the *SLIM* chance the DirecTV ever carries any network HDTV channels, which of the Boston networks are O&O (owned and operated) stations (which I assume would allow for us to automatically qualify)?

Not to put a damper on things, but being in an O&O area won't guarantee that you'll be able to get network HD via satellite. If any deal is struck similar to the one between DISH and CBS (precedent) you will still need a waiver from any other local network affiliate that claims you as part of their "territory".

Although I qualify and receive locals via DISH, and WBZ is an O&O station, I was still denied access to CBS-HD because WPRI, the CBS affiliate in Providence, RI, claims I am part of their "territory". Take a look at this map. (http://www.c5design.com/wpri_coverage.gif) If you live within the blue circle you are part of WPRI's "territory" and would need a waiver from them to receive CBS-HD via satellite. (under the guidelines established by the DISH deal, anyway)

I tried unsuccessfully to get a waiver from WPRI on two occasions before I gave up. Since I can receive WBZ OTA and they pass through CBS-HD I just felt it wasn't worth fighting.

Originally posted by JOtteman
Can the 3021 replace the existing UHF element on an antenna that is installed.

Yes you can replace all the UHF part of your existing antenna using a Radio Shack VHF UHF combiner. (i.e. the case where the new antenna gives you all the UHF channels you want.)

The other alternative is to get a "Jointenna" for Channel 20 from Stark www.starkelectronic.com --it'll combines a single-channel signal with the main feed. That should work with your existing set-up, without the need for a new antenna.

Originally posted by chs4
Take a look at this map. (http://www.c5design.com/wpri_coverage.gif) If you live within the blue circle you are part of WPRI's "territory" and would need a waiver from them to receive CBS-HD via satellite

Wow ... I didnt know they made circles that big! Marblehead is in the upper portion of the blue circle, dispite being pretty far from Providence. I get 19/20/30/31/42 OTA anyway, but in the event that anything ever changes, I was just curious.

Not to change the subject too much.....but, can anyone with a box that has a signal strength meter confirm whether or not there are any variations recently in the signal power for WFXT-DT? I don't have a meter on my Panny, but if I didn't know any better I'd swear they we're upping the power on nights when there's 480P widescreen programming. If this isn't the case, I simply can't explain what's happening since I'm using the same antenna/position (CM3021 on rotor) and never have reception issues with WBZ/WCVB/WHDH-DT. It seems the only time I ever have issues with FXT-DT is when the programming is not 480P native, but upconverted 4x3 480i. With the recent relaxation by the FCC and the poor economy, seems feasible?

Am I going crazy?

BTW, I'm glad to see that HDH-DT finally got the 1080 box back on-line. Hopefully this means the 6 (that right, count 'em, six!) virtual channel maps at "7-2" which my TU-HDS20 seems to have been collecting at about 1 every couple of days, will vanish. I never thought it could take so many presses of the channel up button to get from 5-1 to 25-1!! Aaargh!

Oh, and while I'm on the subject...Hey, Bob, you got your TU-HDS20 out of the box yet? It sure would be nice to have you on 4-1. If HDH-DT gets their act together, you're gonna be odd man out (on my box, at least!)

I'm a refugee from the "OTA Mt. Wilson" thread.

Thanks to jhe for pointing out this thread to me.

I hope you guys will grant this left coaster a visa for this visit.

jhe:

Could you give more details of your stacking:

Vertical or Horizontal?

Spacing?

How to connect the two JBX antennas?


Forgive me if these questions have been asked before.

Thanks.

For stacking, you may be interested in this link:

http://www.grantronics.com.au/docs/StkYagis.pdf

Today I hooked up a Radio Shack double bow tie that cost me 17.99. I also put a CM7775 pre-amp since I am about 50 miles south of Boston.
I am getting great signal strength on WBZ and Fox.
I'll try to fine tune the others tonite.
As a result of this experiment, I'd like to install a stronger antenna in my attic. My neighborhood protective covenants forbid
roof antennas.
Based on these facts, do you think a Bowtie like the CM4228
or a yagi like the CM4248 would be best?
Also, if I decide to put in a seperate VHF antenna with it's own
pre-amp, could I combine the signals so I only have 1 cable
to run down from the attic?
Please be tolerant of my antenna ignorance ;-) I'm just getting started in this HD arena :)

Thanks in advance for the info
Len in beautiful Westport Massachusetts

Cymro,

Welcome to Boston, and thanks for the article, which I shall read.

As to my antennas:

I have a 17 ft "roof" tower, ground mounted. It is near my house, so one guy wire goes over a pulley on my eaves, and down to a winch for lowering the tower. I put a 15 ft mast on top, by using epoxy and 10 ft and 5 ft sections of 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 inch sleeved for extra support.

I also lowered the rotor shelf for more strength, so the top antennas (UHF) are at about 25 ft high.

The main mast has 2 Glenn Martin fiberglas cross booms. I used regular antenna clamps with ss extra long hardware store u-bolts. The top boom is triple clamped effectively.

Then I added 2 6 ft aluminum masts on either side of the main mast, spaced for the Blakes to go side by side, ie horizontal stacked.

The Top of these sub masts is clamped loosely, with locking nuts, to act as a hinge, and then clamped on either side to prevent sliding.

The bottom boom is clamped solid to the sub-masts, but not connected directly to the main mast. My 24 inch dish mover actuator is mounted on an angle brace to the main mast, and pushes out the bottom boom under remote control to handle my tilting. I got a Pansat control box to run the motor.

Spacing is just side by side with the rear just about touching. Luckily the Blakes have plastic insulators on the side, but I used to clamp my old 4248 array with a fiberglass driveway snow marker stick. I use lots of SS hose clamps for connecting things like this.

They are approx. parallel to each other, and level or slghtly up tilted when the bottom boom is up against the main mast.

Connections are with two short (equal length) RG-6 cables to a Blonder Tongue 2 way splitter. The feed from there to my Winegard 28 db preamp is RG-11, and on to my tuners.

With my previous antenna consisting of 4 Channel Master 4248's cut up into 2 double length yagis, I experimented with wide twinlead coupling harnesses, but found the coupler simpler and about the same performance-wise.

PS: I might point out I only went to this elaborate scheme after trying vertical stacking and finding it did not work at all. I think the ground bounce fouled it up with different path lengths from the ground to each antenna! Also with my severe multipath, I needed two side by side to narrow the horizontal pickup as much as possible. I found most any single antenna would work till it rained and then with wet ground lots of channels would go away till the ground dried out again, both at 12 miles away and at 60 miles away.

jhe,

I want to stack a pair of antennas and have some questions. They would be in approx. the range channel range as yours.

With the reflectors side by side, that would be about 20" spacing. Did you calculate this distance or just trial and error? Have you tried adjusting this? what were the results? or did you find the closer the better?

Does the Blonder Tongue 2 way splitter transform the downlead back to 75 ohm? otherwise wouldn't you end up with a 37 ohm downlead?

I was planning on mounting the antennas directly to a fiberglass cross boom. Why did you use another set of 6' masts above your cross boom, or maybe I am not understanding your arrangement, could you post a picture?

Thanks,

I'm receiving HD on 7-1 and a slighltly compressed-looking SD on 7-2 (not as crisp as the upconvert with slight artifacting.) Lipsync problems on 7-1 (maybe 2-300msec delta) but 7-2 seems right on. And the best news is there's only 1 of each mapping!!

It looks like WHDH is getting closer. My WinTV-HD reports two channels, "WHDH High Definition YV" and "WHDH Standard Definition". The HD feed is showing 1920x1080i with gray side bars to fill the rest of the 16x9 frame during Leno. The SD feed is showing 704x480 with no side bars.

They're not showing widescreen Leno, but it looks like their getting closer!

Just noticed in the DIRECTV news website that they are adding Providence, R.I. locals soon. There was a time when I would have been interested but not any more since I can now receive all Boston digital stations OTA and by May 1, probably the Providence stations as well. Seems to me, DIRECTV as well as DISH would better serve their customers by eliminating all analog LIL's and begin transmitting HD LIL's instead. I guess they still would not have enough bandwith. What are they going to do in 2006 when there are no more analog stations?

Does anyone know if WFXT is going back to transmitting @ 720p, upconverting their 480p programming, or are they going to stay at 480p?

The upcoverted wide-screen stuff looks so much better @ 720p.

Last night during Leno I was getting black screen (good signal) on 42-1, gray side bars on 42-2 and no side bars(full picture) on 42-3. What is going on?

Did anyone else get weird formatting from Fox last night? I forget what was on (I think it was the 8-9 timeslot), but it was like they were broadcasting 2 sets of black bars on the sides, so the picture was super squished. If I switched to letterboxed mode, I now had my STB's gray bars, along with the superwide black bars from Fox! Very strange.

Dear Viewer,

Thank you for your interest in HDTV programming. We are pleased to let you know that ExxonMobil's Masterpiece Theatre: Othello will air on DT 19 on January 28, 2002. This ExxonMobil Masterpiece Theatre program is a 21st-century rendition of Shakespeare’s Othello. With all of the passion, jealousy, and betrayal of the original, British Screenwriter Andrew Davies’ Othello transports us to the modern setting of New Scotland Yard in the era of race riots and neo-Nazis.

The show was not shot in HD, but it is being upconverted. We will start transmitting at 7pm and will be going off around midnight.

We hope you continue to enjoy programs on WGBH like Washington Week, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, Frontline, and Greater Boston, putting it in perspective with intelligent, thoughtful, and objective analysis on the stories and events that change our world.

You can support WGBH by calling us at 800-492-1111 or pledging online at http://www.wgbh.org/pledge. Visit wgbh.org for information about WGBH programs and services and to sign up for our free bi-weekly e-newsletter, @gbh, which includes reminders of upcoming programs on WGBH 2, 44, 89.7, information on your favorite PBS sites, answers to your questions, and the latest WGBH news.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience and Member Services

WGBH enriches people's lives through programs and services that educate, inspire, and entertain, fostering citizenship and culture, the joy of learning, and the power of diverse perspectives.

Originally posted by Glenn_L
jhe,

I want to stack a pair of antennas and have some questions. They would be in approx. the range channel range as yours.

With the reflectors side by side, that would be about 20" spacing. Did you calculate this distance or just trial and error? Have you tried adjusting this? what were the results? or did you find the closer the better?

Does the Blonder Tongue 2 way splitter transform the downlead back to 75 ohm? otherwise wouldn't you end up with a 37 ohm downlead?

I was planning on mounting the antennas directly to a fiberglass cross boom. Why did you use another set of 6' masts above your cross boom, or maybe I am not understanding your arrangement, could you post a picture?

Thanks,

Spacing sounds like what I used. Anyways the rear reflectors are able to touch when the wind blows. They sit maybe 1/2 inch apart there.

As to calcs. Back when I used 4248's I tried calculating the ideal spacing using the Winegard paper (forgot where it is) but it said to use spacing between .7 and 1 wavelength I think I remember (different from article cymro referred me to). Anyways that one had wide reflectors, and I couldn't get that close, and it seemed like I had a split peak lobe at times on some channels. So this time I just tried for closer. Seems to be a bit better. I use these for all UHF but our low UHF channels down to 19 are close by and the high ones are my fringe stations. Seems to work well for all I need which is 19 to 59: I measured +25 dbmv on ch 30 and on ch 19 too, and they are on the same tower at close power levels. Get pretty sharp main lobe when I rotate, and ch 57 I have to aim within about 3 degrees. Others less critical. Anyways per the formula I used, seems like you can't get too close with wide reflectors.

On my 4248's I used transformers, but on the Blakes the Balun ckt is built in, so I am 75 ohms right to the antenna. The splitter is designed for 75 ohms in and out, it is just a 2 set coupler working backwards. It is not just connecting the coax's in parallel. With a harness you do need higher impedance twinlead to equalize the impedance out as you state.

OK just found the paper I used for all this:
http://pages.cthome.net/fmdx/stackant.html

Can't post a good picture right now, but hope to someday:


__________ <-- this boom hinged
| | |
-> | | | <-- antennas here
| | |
| | |
_|___|___|_ <-- actuator pushes boom out
|
|
|
|


One boom should work, but this way tilting is easy,and the regular antenna clamps work. Originally I went this way, because I got 4 4248 antennas and planned to stack 2 by 2.

After that didn't work well I found 2 lengthened ones side by side worked best till I got my Blake antennas.

Good luck.

By the way ch 57 (60 miles) came on last night after being off for several days, so they must have celebrated: Normally they are on 7-9 PM but last night they stayed on till after midnight so I got to experiment a bit: I tested with all 3 of my tuners and my tilter:

Tilter worked best at big angle, like 25 degrees up. as I went up from level, I got peaks and dips but the peaks kept getting better till I got up to there. DTC-100 range was about 6 points up and down with peaks at 54 or so near horizontal and going up as high as 64 at 25 degrees.

DTC-100 readings swung around a lot, causing reception problems and readings ranged 38 to 64 with lots of 50-54 readings. Reception at these numbers would normally be ok (except the 38 reading I got once), if they weren't bouncing so much. Got lots of sound drops, and pixelization for up to 30 seconds, then ok for 5-10 minutes.

Panasonic tuner (Tu-dst50) did better esp on the sound, but did pixellate excessively.

Samsung got a solid signal with no glitches the entire evening.

jhe,

Thanks for the response.

according to that link:

"0ptimum and minimum spacing is 0.94 and 0.60 wavelength, respectively, at the lowest frequency received. Spacing exceeding one wavelength reduces the performance of the stack. "

20" x .94 = 18.8 would give you optimum performance on ch 40.

I want to tune my antenna for ch 53-59, at 20" O.C. that would be about 1.2 WL spacing, which is out of range, but I can't really move them closer unless I trim the reflector. Blake uses the same length reflector on the 'C/D' as they do the 'WB', but the director elements on the 'C/D' are, on average, shorter. I could probably trim 1/2" off each side of the reflector on the 'C/D'. That would tune the antenna to 19x.94=17.86 WL or ch 46. That would get me closer.

What type of meter are you using? did you use it to match the coax voltages or just trim them to the same length?

I could not find that coupler on the BT website, is it just a regular 2-1 cable tv splitter. I have some good ones from Winegard, I also have a antenna joiner from radio shack that looks just like a splitter, I wonder if that would be better?

the article also states:

"Because wavelength changes with frequency, wiring harnesses are only practical for singlechannel antennas. Multiple-band and wide-band antennas should always be connected with broadband hybrid couplers. "

"broadband hybrid couplers"?, hmmm I need to check into that.

Hybrid couplers are the best for combining two antenna signals. The Jointenna from Ch. Mstr is a hybrid and very low loss. The splitter/combiners from Radio Shack are resistive devices with 3db loss; they are unsuitable for connecting two antennas unless you are willing to give up signal. It would be like using a preamp with an additional 3db noise.

As to signal strength meters, the ones designed for analog stations can give incorrect readings on digital stations because of the vastly different way in which the analog and digital channels deploy the 6 MHz channel width.

Does the hybrid couplers help to keep each signal in phase if there is a slight difference in each input? or should the input be perfectly in phase before entering the coupler? I think that even if you cut the cables exactly the same, there is still going to be a small difference, and at this stage, every little bit helps. The difference could come from the cable or the antennas. The best way would to match the inputs on some type of sensitive meter to make sure they are perfectly matched before being coupled.

Hybrid couplers do not correct for incoming phase discrepancies so you still have to match coax cable legths to within about 5% of a wavelength to keep losses from phase differences to a reasonable level.

In addition to WBZ, WCVB, WGBH, WHDH, & WFXT, I saw that the following channels that I have never heard of have purchased equipment to broadcast a digital signal:

WHSH (Marlboro), WDPX (Vineyard Haven), WGGB (Springfield), & WBPX (Boston), and maybe others.

Does anyone know what these channels are, and if they might potentially broadcast anything worthwhile? (ie: not home shopping & infomercials)

Anyone watch Friends/Will & Grace last night on 7-1? I noticed that about every 10-15 minutes the image would freeze up for about 3 seconds even though the sounds would continue to come in. After three seconds, the image would fill with MPEG-2 squares as it recovered. I noticed no other problems. I'm sure it wasn't due to reception issues since the sound was unbroken during the gliches.

BTW, the 1080i upconversion looks great. I'm very pleased with the grey bars. Does anyone know why they also multicast the DTV image on 7-2? Could it be for use by cable companies that get their feed OTA?

I'm using a Dish 6000 receiver.

If anyone has a line into WHDH engineering, please pass this along.

thanks!

Originally posted by Glenn_L
jhe,

Thanks for the response.

according to that link:

"0ptimum and minimum spacing is 0.94 and 0.60 wavelength, respectively, at the lowest frequency received. Spacing exceeding one wavelength reduces the performance of the stack. "

20" x .94 = 18.8 would give you optimum performance on ch 40.

I want to tune my antenna for ch 53-59, at 20" O.C. that would be about 1.2 WL spacing, which is out of range, but I can't really move them closer unless I trim the reflector. Blake uses the same length reflector on the 'C/D' as they do the 'WB', but the director elements on the 'C/D' are, on average, shorter. I could probably trim 1/2" off each side of the reflector on the 'C/D'. That would tune the antenna to 19x.94=17.86 WL or ch 46. That would get me closer.

What type of meter are you using? did you use it to match the coax voltages or just trim them to the same length?

I could not find that coupler on the BT website, is it just a regular 2-1 cable tv splitter. I have some good ones from Winegard, I also have a antenna joiner from radio shack that looks just like a splitter, I wonder if that would be better?

the article also states:

"Because wavelength changes with frequency, wiring harnesses are only practical for singlechannel antennas. Multiple-band and wide-band antennas should always be connected with broadband hybrid couplers. "

"broadband hybrid couplers"?, hmmm I need to check into that.

Glenn,

I would strongly recommend that you accept the spacing, once you mount them close as you can! They must not overlap, and should not touch metal to metal. Can't say for sure about your Blakes, but with my Channel Master 4248's which had even wider reflectors, I had the same idea, and ruined two of them! If you trim the reflector I think you will be surprised how much they contribute to gain at frequencies you want!
For sure you will lose most gain at low freq's but I found losses across the band, and it could screw up the impedance matching as well, across the desired frequencies, I think. (I was also trying to optimize for the high end at ch 57.)

My meter is a Sencore DSL757 due to it's relative low cost. It is made for QAM, but works well for 8-VSB digital signals also. The P/V feature can't be fully optimized for 8-VSB, but is still useful as a multipath indicator and the gain readings should be relatively accurate. For double the money you could get a real 8-vsb meter, but for me the Sencore is great, and I use it to check for overload at preamps, compare couplers and often for antenna aiming, esp when not using my DTC-100.

I also used the meter with an RF oscillator to phase my 75 ohm transformers, a job you can skip with the built in one on the Blakes.

Just keep the cables equal length to the coupler and you should be fine, and make sure the antennas are as parallel and with the elements lined up and you should be fine. You can not match voltages, since the signals picked up by each antenna will never really match exactly and will bounce around faster than you can change cable lengths. Any remaining phasing error can be tuned out with your rotor, one of the advantages of the side by side mounting.

Back in analog days I had lots of R/S splitters, etc. I tossed them all after I measured their losses. They may have better stuff today, but my splitter choice was the Blonder Tongue SXRS-2 which is spec'd at 3.8 DB losses to 860 mhz. This sounds terrible, but it measures better and was the best I could find anywhere. (Keep in mind you are using it as a combiner not a splitter, so your real loss is 3.8 - 3 db or 0.8 db max loss. It is shown in the distribution section of their pdf catalog. (I had to order it special from Stark, because they did not stock this model!)

Regarding harnesses, keep in mind they are talking about VHF mostly. At UHF a harness might not cover the full band, but you can make one that optimizes one channel and covers a pretty good range above and below that one without exceeding the losses inherent in a splitter. The extra spacing required by the reflectors makes it hard to make a proper length harness reach between the antennas however.

Originally posted by RScogland
In addition to WBZ, WCVB, WGBH, WHDH, & WFXT, I saw that the following channels that I have never heard of have purchased equipment to broadcast a digital signal:

WHSH (Marlboro), WDPX (Vineyard Haven), WGGB (Springfield), & WBPX (Boston), and maybe others.
...................................


The Marlboro station is channel 23 and will be Telemundo, spanish channel I think. It has been Home Shopping up to now and was mainly useful for checking the sub-channel tuning on your tuner.

WBPX should be PAX like channel 68 analog.

To check up on everything coming go to ===>

http://www.transmitter.com

and download their fcc database updated spreadsheets. There is one for DTV only, and another with all digital and analog. They also show antenna locations, heights, and transmitter power requested, so you can get an idea which channels you might be able to actually receive at your location (just compare to ones you get now with difficulty).

Originally posted by FatNoah
They're not showing widescreen Leno, but it looks like their getting closer!

Just back from CES and no Leno in HD :(, but it does look close. Of course the mapping changes not handled as adeptly on the 6000.

Tim

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit
Does anyone know why they also multicast the DTV image on 7-2

7.1 is 16:9, 7.2 is 4:3. I believe they do this because many TVs like mine do not allow zooming when they broadcast a 4:3 picture in the 16:9 frame. Many people don’t like to zoom 4:3 images but some do, especially shows like "The West Wing", which is letterboxes.

Having multicast should satisfy everyone. Purest who want OAR can watch 7.1. People who want to zoom the picture but can’t zoom 16:9 pictures can watch 7.2.

I’m wondering when The Tonight Show will be in full screen?

jhe:

Thanks for your very useful comments about stacking and signal meters.

As to combiners, you are right to point out that a perfect hybrid "loses" 3 db by specification; however this is only true when each port sees a different frequency or channel. When both input ports of the hybrid see the same signal frequency and amplitude and phase, the actual loss of a perfect hybrid is zero db. I call this the "excess" loss.

The BT hybrid sounds good at only 0.8 db excess loss; by comparison, a professional hybrid such as the Minicircuits PSC 2-4-752 has a worst case "excess" loss of 0.6 db, not really much better than the BT. A perfect resistive combiner has an excess loss of 3db; a typical commercial resistive combiner has an excess loss of about 3.5 db.

As to stacking distances, subject to confirmation by experiment, I have a feeling that the spacing formula listed in the link I posted earlier is better than the tip to tip spacing that you've been using. Any chance that you could try the experiment?

cymro,

You could be correct on the spacing issue and I could try it with a bit wider spacing. With snow due soon here, you might get to try it before I do though. I might not do it till spring, now that everything sort of works.

The other problem I have is knowing when it is better. You are talking about small changes: I have tried making polar plots before, and even did it at a friend's house as well. The plots of my friend's Delhi came out looking like their specs almost. Mine came out looking like the worst antenna you ever saw, due to my bad multipath in 5 different directions.

Back when I had the 4248 arrays I did do lots of gain comparisons, and with the pair side by side I got the full gain boost I expected, by measuring each channel and averaging, of 3 db - my coupler loss. These were slightly wider spacing, but back then my main problem channel was 30, now it is 57!

Hey all,

Jim Shultis from WHDH asked me to pass on the following information:

WHDH is now broadcasting in HD. We have remapped our channels as follows;

7-0 analogue channel 7

7-1 1080i HD with program guide

7-2 480i SD

On 7-1 we are up converting all standard definition programming to 4x3 1080i. We have decided to leave it in 4x3 and not cause anamorphic distortions.

On 7-1 all NBC HD programming will pass through in it's native 16x9.

If all goes well, Jay Leno will be on tonight (1/10/02) and Crossing Jordan next Monday-

During the Olympics in February, NBC's HD delayed programs will be on
7-1, and real time SD broadcast will be on 7-2.

Enjoy, feel free to email any comments or suggestions.

Jim Shultis
Director of Engineering
jshultis@whdh.com


Fantastic news, thanks Jim.

I will also post this in the HD Programming section under a new thread.

"Just back from CES and no Leno in HD , but it does look close. Of course the mapping changes not handled as adeptly on the 6000"

Rudolph, exactly where is the CES show being held at this year?

It's true, it's true.

Just did a re-scan on the DTC-100 and the HiPix and sure enough there is a WHDH-HD on 7-1 and the normal WHDH-DT on 7-2.

And, here is the best part, on 7-1 it's a 4:3 image right now (no HD at this time) and it's as most agree is best, an OAR 4:3 image in a 16:9 frame but, with gray bars rather than black bars as with WBZ and WCVB. This is the perfect set-up, both the HD and SD versions and gray bars to avoid screen burn.

Jim you may have set a new standard for Digital broadcasts...!

Can't wait to see Leno in HD tonight......!

Originally posted by Richard_P_Harvey
... an OAR 4:3 image in a 16:9 frame ...

Actually, the OA is more like 4.2:3. Compare 7.1 to 7.2 and you will see that 7.1 is wider then 7.2. They, like most others, include the over scan of the 4:3. so it is not OAR but I don’t think anyone will complain. :)

I emailed WCVB about their annoying digital "bug" that is not quite in the corner of the screen and in their reply, they mentioned that tonight's (1/11/01) chronicle is currently scheduled to be an encore broadcast of the original HDTV production "Embracing Winter." Can anyone confirm this? Did anyone catch it the first time, and if so, is it worth watching?

I think it starts at 7:30

jhe:

to get a full gain improvement is really impressive; that alone would suggest that your almost touching spacing is about optimum.

Woz,I did catch Chronicle tonight and can say that it looked great.
But the funny thing is it looked amazing when I saw the same episode last year.Big diference.
Maybe last years was 1080i and this years was 720p which my TV upconverts to 1080i.WEIRD!

Thanks Richard for passing on the info from Jim:


On 7-1 all NBC HD programming will pass through in it's native 16x9.

If all goes well, Jay Leno will be on tonight (1/10/02) and Crossing Jordan next Monday-


Jay is still 4:3 tonight (and those NY city adds really are loud). Looking forward to the inaugural HD, but will not be stateside until next Fri.

Many, many, many excellent kudos on the 4:3 decision on non-HD programming. Agree the SD channel can be manipulated by many STBs, but getting OAR is the best starting point.

THANKS!!!!

Tim

I use a RS set-top amp. antenna and have been receiving Boston DT stations as follows: 4-1 (75%), 5-1 (70%), 7-1 (28%), 25-1 (0%), 2-1 (25%). I purchased a coaxial extension, hooked it up and moved the antenna to my front window and WOW!!!!!! Now I receive 4-1 (100), 5-1 (100), 7-1 (65), 2-1 (75) and 25-1 (45), I'm like a kid in a candy store. Bring on the Super Bowl!!!! Can't wait to see the PATS in 16:9 (480p).

Tim,

Right you are Tim (as always), I did notice that this was an old show from October (Halloween comments by Jay) so I wonder if that was the issue.

Jim,

Maybe you can have a look at this on Monday so that it can be corrected before Crossing Jordan on Monday night. I remember when WBZ first got their system operational it seemed that they needed to do some manual switchover when the network passed them an HD broadcast and they were often late doing the switch. They now seem to have it totally automated or someone has awesome timing. Anyway, just food for thought and thanks again for all your efforts.

I just saw on TitanTV.com that NBA Inside Stuff will be in HD today on WHDH, does anyone know if this is true?

Chronicle looked great on Friday. My monitor can do 720p natively and I was very impressed.

Anybody catch GBH Friday night, too? All 1080i and wonderful outdoor shots. I hope they continue doing so on Friday nights for awhile. Mostly HD short films, generally the same stuff they showed when they introduced HD for a week when they were first up and running.

Hope we get Leno in HD next week. I am very curious to see how that looks.

I sure hope FOX goes back to upconverting to 720p again. the Super Bowl would look much better, IMHO.

:( No digital signals in Andover this morning...
I usually get CVB and BZ without any problems, HDH is always hit and miss. Today (now, snow) they're all zippo!

4-1 is fine. 7-1 is coming in with no sound...7-2 is fine....can't get wcvb or wfxt well here in Newton at all....is this the snow's fault?

must be the snow because I am watching the packers/niners on wfxt without any problems (besides the fact that is not in high definition, or even fox widescreen). But now that I think about it, the digital fox logo missing from the corner.

I have no 25.1. 4.1 and 5.1 keeps breaking up. 7.1 has no sound but 7.2 is ok. I'm about 20 miles away. I assumed that the snow on my roof is hindering my attic antenna. But I think 7.1 sound problem must be something at the station.

Also, 80.3 about 40 miles to the north has no problems. Strange.

4.1, 5.1 and 7.1 & .2 are all coming in fine. 25.1 has a 94 signal strength, but no picture at all. Anyone else experiencing this with 25.1?

Was having problems getting WHDH and WFXT until the sun came out then the signal started getting progressively stronger. I'm using a RS set-top amp. antenna so the snow has a definate effect on the signal strength. WBZ and WCVB continued to come in at or near 100% during the storm. WFXT is my weakest signal but at best I get a watchable signal. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Super Bowl (especially if the Pats are in it).

Still can't get WCVB or WFXT from my location here in Newton (2 miles from the towers!!). Have tried indoor(megawave & RS) and outdoor (Terk) with amps and with attenuators. Signals just come in strong one moment and drop to weak the next. I have devoted 4 weekends to this headache because I just cannot fathom that I have to "live " with just two stations when I am so close to the towers. I'm ready for professional help. Someone earlier recommended The Antenna Man as a good installer....anyone know how I can reach him?

I think I already know the answer to this -- but maybe someone can confirm. I own a Panasonic TU-DST51 STB. It has a channel mapping feature, but only seems to work for WCVB and WFXT.

The other stations don't map. To avoid the confusion, I turn off the mapping and let the channels display in real mode (i.e. 19, 20, 23, 30, 31, 42). Even then, the subchannel numbers seem different from what others say here.

Is there a firmware upgrade to my box, it is just broken, or too
old?

Regards,
Bob

Eags,
What equipment are you using?
Have you tried a Radio Shack UHF only outdoor antenna?
Do you live in single family where you have access to your attic?
How is you cabling from the antenna to the STB?(A single RG-6 or are you diplexing?)

Just curious. I just setup my friend with HD out here in cow country. He is using a RCA box without problems. I work in Westwood. If you are interested I could stop by your place a take a look with you. Send me an private message from my profile if interested. Not sure if I can help, but another opinion is free.

---Andy Garabedian

Is GBH's signal as strong as it's going to get?
I'm only getting a 30 to 40 reading.
Isn't it on the same tower as WCVB?
One last question.Is there any way to boost your signal,I hear talk of amps and so forth and was wondering what these do?
I can't believe how much a pain in the a$$ it is to catch a signal over the air.I'm not even talking about myself here as I have had minimal problems.I see so many others though,ten miles away from towers or even 2 miles and having problems.How will HD ever take off!

Originally posted by RAP
:( No digital signals in Andover this morning...
I usually get CVB and BZ without any problems, HDH is always hit and miss. Today (now, snow) they're all zippo!

Sunday I also lost my signal completely from ch 57 WENH-DT, even with my big dual antenna. I have measured loses of over 10 DB on this station due to the snow storms.

The other problem is with snow on the ground, multipath often gets worse, making reception difficult, even on nearby stations.

I live in Westport MA, about 50 miles south of Boston.
I am using a Radio Shack indoor double bow tie that I paid 17.99
for. I am also using a CM7775 signal amp. I have the bow tie
on top of my tv and I'm getting ABC,CBS and Fox awesome.
Signals are 80-90. NBC is iffy. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.
I will be install a CM4228 UHF antenna in my attic this weekend.
I will still use the signal amp. I will post my results.
My next challenge will be to get the Providence stations when
they go digital in May. I am about 25 miles east of prov, and 50 miles south of Boston.
I may need to add a 2nd CM4228 at that time to pick up the Providence stations.
If anyone knows how I might combine the signals of 2 antennas
I'd appreciate the input.
Thanks in advance.
Hope I was able to help someone.

Len in Westport

According to the information at http://www.transmitter.com (if its up to date, which apparently comes direct from the FCC registrations) WFXT-DT is only transmitting at a lowly 67.5kW. In other words, why bother? All the other major stations in town are broadcasting at least 818kW with most closer to 1000kW. No wonder I can't get FXT-DT even with a great antenna and rotor not even 20 miles away!! Shame on them!!

And as long as I'm on the subject, what happened to WENH-DT? I can't get them any more. I used to, but it's been several weeks since I last tried. I attempted to tune them in around 2:30 Sunday afternoon and around 7:15 this evening. Is their transmitter down or something? I remember reading they had problems, but thought they had been fixed by now.

Originally posted by Doug G
... I can't get FXT-DT even with a great antenna and rotor not even 20 miles away!! ... And as long as I'm on the subject, what happened to WENH-DT?

I'm in the next town and I getting FXT-DT now!! I can also get WENH-TV when they are on the air. I have two RS double bow-tie antennas in the attic. One facing south, the other, north.

Is anybody seeing Crossing Jordan in HD? I am getting the occasional flash to darkness but no HD.

Crossing Jordan and Leno were not HD for me!

Did anyonse see the random HD clips after Forces of Nature on ABC? There were some random shots of a gymnasium, a guy on horseback, and the beginning of a preview for 101 Dalmations before WCVB cut over to the upconvert of their SD feed.

Originally posted by FatNoah
Did anyonse see the random HD clips after Forces of Nature on ABC? There were some random shots of a gymnasium, a guy on horseback, and the beginning of a preview for 101 Dalmations before WCVB cut over to the upconvert of their SD feed.

Yes, I've seen it before. They sometime also test the 5.1 audio. ( left, center, right, surround left, surround right )

Originally posted by MikeD
I have two RS double bow-tie antennas in the attic. One facing south, the other, north.
Mike,

Do you have a Jointenna or are you just combining with a combiner/splitter & equal cable lengths. Am I having deja vu?

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht
Am I having deja vu?
Yes, we have talked before. :)

I do use equal cable lengths.
The following is my last post on the thread on my antenna setup at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28431

Originally posted by MikeD
Status of my bi-directional antenna:
I added a second RS UHF bow-tie antenna in my attic. I simply joined them by connecting the 300-ohm leads before the 75-ohm transformer. I have the antennas back to back facing opposite directions. I made sure the same sides of the antennas were connected together. Example - West side of the north pointing antenna was connected to the west side on the south pointing antenna. I don’t know if this really matters.

Results:
I am now able to get all the digital channels in both directions without adjusting the antennas or using an A/B switch.

Analog stations.
The analog UFH stations came in better then cable when I had only one antenna facing south. Now I get vary faint ghosting. However I have no problems or dropouts with the digital channels. I presently have cable for the local analog channels. I may switch to satellite some day. When/if I do, I will use an A/B switch for the antennas so I can receive all the local UFH channels as clearly as possible.

I guess I should probably have further qualified "can't get" when referring to WFXT-DT. I can actually receive the signal, but its not nearly strong enough to remain stable. I'm getting the usual breakups/blockiness/freezes every 10 seconds or so, and even these seem to vary with weather conditions to some degree. All the other major networks (which transmit at reasonable powers) are rock solid and come in fine, so I know its not my location or antenna configuration since all signals originate from the same tower.

Is the schedule for WENH-DT the same as last posted (6-8 M-F, 2-10 weekends) ?? I get nothing but snow on 57 when pointed at Durham.

Originally posted by Doug G
Is the schedule for WENH-DT the same as last posted (6-8 M-F, 2-10 weekends) ??

I'm not sure. They seem to be on after 7 on weekdays but are somewhat random. I don't know about weekends. They mostly play repeat demo tapes. Because they map to 80.3, I have to enter 80 for the channel. I can not just use the up/down channel on my remote.

I'll try to post when they are on the air the next time I see them.

Originally posted by Doug G

Is the schedule for WENH-DT the same as last posted (6-8 M-F, 2-10 weekends) ?? I get nothing but snow on 57 when pointed at Durham.

Yes they have been tweaking the transmitter (due to interference problems with channel 11). In the past couple of weeks, there were times they were off the air, had strong but pixelating signal, and/or have stayed on even longer.
Last night I was getting the best readings ever from them so looks like things are coming together for them.

The normal schedule is 7-9pm evenings, 2-9 weekends, but will stay on longer for specials.
Click on "Broadcast Schedule" at their website www.nhptv.org

Doug G,

WEHN-DT has had problems recently, but lately they have been on regularly, and even a bit extra.
I think regular hours are 7PM to 9PM weekdays, and 1PM to 9PM on weekends, but I have seen them come on before 6 PM and at 7:30 some nights.

Sunday I lost them in the snow (no signal) and then the wind (lots of breakup). But they came in just fine on Fri, Sat, and last night.

In fact last night I got them on my old Panasonic with 0 glitches. My RCA DTC-100 read a fairly constant 64 with my antenna tilted up at 25 degrees or so. With the antenna level the reading dropped to 52 but was still receivable.

You may need to work on your antenna a bit. Fox should also reach to your location now. Most of the big power of the other stations is to try to punch through that last 10 miles to 60 or 70 miles. But you still could need a big antenna, and outside for this.

Keep in mind that power goes logarithmically and 60 KW is only 10 db down from 600 KW. In other words, put up an antenna with 10 db more gain, and you should match the reception of the powerful station with a small antenna.

My DTC 100 reads typically better than 76 on Fox here in Lexington at 12 miles.

Re: Fox weak reception ===>

Of course Fox on ch 25 is very powerful:

So maybe they could drop that power by a megawatt and give it to ch 31, and I bet more people would be happy than those that would notice ch 25 degradation.

And their electric bill could stay the same!

Thanks for all the responses. I wonder if my TU-HDS20 is having some kind of issue that a power cycle might fix. Last night, at 7:15, I was definitely trying to tune ch 57 pointed due N, and no luck. I used to get this station no problem back in October/November, guess I'll have to work it out myself (even tried the "80-3" mapping with no luck.)

jhe - point taken on the power thing. As an engineer I should have known this. Guess my frustration clouded my scientific reasoning, eh? But still, 10dB is a lot. I'm already using a CM3021 and I'm not THAT far from the towers. I admit, though, that it IS mounted in my attic. I think the chances of the wife allowing me to mount it outside is slim-to-none! Maybe I'll try picking up an amplifier. If I am right on the edge, hopefully it won't hurt my reception on the other channels so I could leave it in place for all stations.

My location is approx. 35 W of the Needham transmitters,
about 200 feet down the wrong side of a 500 foot hill.

Shortly before Christmas, the planets aligned and I was
able to receive all five Boston DTV stations at the same
time: WGBH, WBZ, WCVB, WHDH, and WFXT. They have
been fairly reliable throughout this month (in contrast
to last fall when WHDH was only receivable 50% of the
time).

I am using the RS U-100 (discontinued) corner reflector,
mounted in the attic, which a Wingard 23dB preamp
and a channel trap for channel 27 (about 3 miles from
my house).

I've never received the NH stations, though the pointing of
my antenna is very critical: once I got it working with Needham,
I've been afraid to so much as breathe on it.

Originally posted by MikeD
Yes, we have talked before.

Senility at such an early age. Thanks ... agin.

Tim

Hey any Leno in HD????

Originally posted by rudolpht


Senility at such an early age. Thanks ... agin.

Tim

Hey any Leno in HD????

Tim,

You must still be out of town. Assuming you are, it's business as usual---still no HD on 7-1. We must be getting closer though (we BETTER be getting closer) since the Olympics are only a couple of weeks away.

Originally posted by MikeD
I'll try to post when they are on the air the next time I see them.

It is now 5:54 pm, Tuesday, 01/15 and I'm receiving WENH-DT with no problems.

Doug G,
You may want to check how much snow in on your roof with you attic antenna. I should point out that my home is on a higher elevation then the average for my town.

Just noticed that I can not get WCVB-DT at this time.

I just installed a CM4228 bow tie antenna in my attic. I was using a Radio Shack set-top bowtie that I bought for 17.99. I am also using a CM7775 signal amplifier.
As a result of putting in the attic antenna, I now get:
WBZ 4-1 signal in the 90's
WCVB 5-1 signal in the 90's
WHDH 7-1 signal in the 80's (much better than before)
WHDH 7-2 signal in the 80's ( ditto )
WHDH 7-3 signal in the 80's but it wasn't transmitting.
WFXT 25-1 signal in the 70's ( much better than before)

The attic antenna has made a big difference in signal strength.
I havent been able to get WGBH. Are they on channel 19?
What hours do they broadcast?
By the way, I am in Westport, about 55 miles south of Boston.

I am also looking forward to May when the Providence channels come online in Digital.

Thanks for all the help.

Len

I managed to see Leno in HD tonight on WHDH!

LENO looked fantastic in HiDef last night. There are still a few bugs for WHDH to work out. At about 11:25PM, the Leno Show began early cutting into the 11PM News for a few seconds before the news re-appeared. During the Leno Show, there were some video blackouts (black screen but still audio). All in all, it was great seeing an NBC program finally in HD. Boston has now entered the world of being a Super-HD city. We have just about all the HD that anyone else in America has with the possible exception of Seattle and Raleigh where local news is done in HD. Stay tuned!

Back in business, baby! Power cycled the Panny last night, set rotor to 10 degrees and BAM, WENH-DT in all its HD glory! Also, while troubleshooting the problem earlier in the day, I decided to move the light bulb socket in the attic which was sitting only about 1ft directly in front of my antenna, attached to one of the rafters. Since it was mostly metal, I figured maybe its proximity was messing with the signal slightly. I moved it well out of the signal path, way over to one of the angled roof rafters actually, and between that and the power cycle of my box I received all the DTV channels last night without a single glitch! Yes, even WFXT! (Have to admit I never really watched that "24" show before, but pretty good I must say.) Hopefully it wasn't the relatively benign weather but actually the reboot and light socket relocation which fixed things. Next few nights will tell, I guess.

Also, I noticed that WCVB-DT wasn't doing HD last night; seemed like new episodes so not sure if it was planned?

Wish I could manage to stay up to see Leno in HD, but with a 17 month old still not sleeping consistently through the night, I'd be a zombie the next day....

For anyone north of Boston having trouble pulling in NBC and Fox, I have some info:
For almost two years I've been frustrated with my reception of these stations from my attic antenna here in northern Westford. I've been using the Radio Shack 44" UHF yagi and a CM preamp. Just couldn't get a position where all 4 Boston DTV signals were solid. I'm at a fairly low elevation with some hills between me and the towers.
On the advice of a co-worker, I bought the CM3021 at Starks last week and switched it out last night. This is a mast-able 4 bay bow tie with a "screen" behind it. The antenna costs $24.

WOW

All 4 Boston signals are now in the 80s. Can't tell you how happy I am now that Fox will be solid for the Super Bowl.

For those of you having these Fox and NBC issues, it's the best $24 you'll ever spend. This antenna is a well-kept secret for DTV reception.

Tom

I am 50 miles south of Boston, and I also opted for the CM4228 which is a big brother to the CM3021. I am having the same
great results. All 4 Boston channels clear as a bell.

Len in Westport

does anybody know of a retailer in the Worcester area that sells the Chaneel Master antennas?
Thanks.

Your super lucky in Worcester!

Stark Electronic
444 FRANKLIN ST WORCESTER MA. 01604
PHONE 508-756-7136
FAX 508-756-5752

http://www.starkelectronic.com

I am currently using a CM4248 UHF antenna with a Spartan 3 amp mounted on the antenna. I have noticed that some people here have had success with the CM4228 bow antenna. My question is will switching to the CM4228 antenna improve FOX-25 reception? I currently get the following signal strengths to the Boston stations:

CH 4 - 70-80 Excellent reception
CH 5 - 70-80 Excellent reception
CH 7 - 60-70 Excellent reception
FOX - 20-50 Poor reception

Needless to say watching FOX is very difficult at best. I'm about 70 miles to Boston towers, mostly over the water. If anyone has any experience with either of these antennas I would appreciate it.

Thanks

I live about 35-40 miles SE of the Needham towers and receive signals as follows:

19 (65%)
20 (100)
30 (100)
31 (35-45)
42 (45-60)

I live in the bottom floor of a condo with a west-facing TV room. I am using the Radio Shack VHF/UHF/FM amplified set-top antenna (15-1862 in their catalog). I have tried the RS double bow-tie and the results were about 30% less signal down the line of stations. I've also tried their High-performance digital TV antenna (15-1890) with similar results to the VHF/UHF/FM amplified. If there are any better indoor antennas, someone please let me know.

You could try the Megawave or the Silver Sensor Antennas. The Silver Sensor worked better for me.

WBZ will air, locally, the movie "Narrow Margin" this Sunday, January 20, from 4 - 6 PM. This will be in high definition.

For information on the movie, see:

http://apolloguide.com/mov_revtemp.asp?cid=715

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV/WSBK-TV/WLWC-TV/WBZ-AM/WODS-FM

***WBZ DTV Hotline - 617-787-7043***
[This number rings in our master control room. Please use it only to report programming problems.]

Thanks for the information David!

Thanks for the programming updates, Bob.

*Benji,
I am consistently getting around 70% on ALL 5 stations down here in Warwick, RI --- using the Winegard GS-2000 w/ amp, indoors & hidden in a corner of my 3rd floor living room.

Of course, it isn't pleasant living 4-miles from Green airport, but the flyovers are not too frequent...

Keith

I have the Zenith 1080 feeding a Denon5800.

WCVB audio (via optical) causes the Denon to switch between "dialog normalization mode" and the normal mode display almost continously, this leads to some audio dropouts.

This does not happen on the other Boston channels nor on the HBO/HD nor other Directv DD5.1. I do not recall having this problem with my Mits HD5 receiver.

Has anyone else seen this ?

I also had trouble getting Fox consistently, until I put in the CM4228 in my attic. I now get all Boston channels clear as a bell.
Fox is now in the 70-80 range.

Len in Westport

Steve,
WCVB is the only DTV signal not sending out a DD 2.0 signal. My receiver recognizes it as pro-logic and decodes as such fine. It looks like the Denon is getting confused. Try setting it manually for decoding Pro-Logic and see if it helps.

Where can I pick up an amp for my antenna?
If someone could explain these a little to me also that would be great.Price?Success rate?Instalation?
THANKS!!!

Originally posted by thartnett
Steve,
WCVB is the only DTV signal not sending out a DD 2.0 signal. My receiver recognizes it as pro-logic and decodes as such fine. It looks like the Denon is getting confused. Try setting it manually for decoding Pro-Logic and see if it helps.

I thought WCVB was actually transmitting DD (which is the standard I thought) and the Dolby Prologic is encapsulated in that and decoded by the receiver.

-Mike

Originally posted by Benji
LENO looked fantastic in HiDef last night. There are still a few bugs for WHDH to work out. At about 11:25PM, the Leno Show began early cutting into the 11PM News for a few seconds before the news re-appeared. During the Leno Show, there were some video blackouts (black screen but still audio). All in all, it was great seeing an NBC program finally in HD. Boston has now entered the world of being a Super-HD city. We have just about all the HD that anyone else in America has with the possible exception of Seattle and Raleigh where local news is done in HD. Stay tuned!

WGBH-DT transmitting at least every evening would make Boston truely one of the super HD cities.

Originally posted by bojo1756
Where can I pick up an amp for my antenna?
If someone could explain these a little to me also that would be great.Price?Success rate?Instalation?
THANKS!!!

Where: You can get Winegard at YDI in Needham off the shelf.

Or order from Stark in Worcester. They carry both Winegard and Channel Master.

What: I would suggest the Winegard AP4700 for your location. It has lower gain, so less likely to overload. (You still might have too much signal where you are to use any preamp though. This is trial and error, unless you can measure your signal levels. A lot will depend on how high you are and what if anything is blocking your line of sight.) This one is UHF only. They should have an all channel version if you need that, but you probably don't need vhf gain.

Key is to maximize your signal, without overloading your tuner or your preamp. Without equipment an attenuator is useful to check for overload problems.

Main use is supposed to be to make up for cable losses, so unit must be mounted right at the antenna. It can also minimize impedance problems due to the antenna.

I have had great success with them, once I stopped buying the junk ones that overload on most anything, or are too noisy.

For VHF I use a preamp to clear up snow on ch 10-12. For UHF my snow is minimized on ch 64 and 50 with a preamp. Also pull in ch 57 WENH-DT most nights, which I could not get at all without a preamp.

A preamp is not necessary (for Reading) for locals like the Needham stations.

In general you can judge your need for a preamp by looking at the amount of snow on analog stations in the same general area you want to receive.

A preamp will not help you with multipath if that is your problem with digital stations.

Anybody know what if anything is happening up there in Manchester???

I set up my system for the "Fiesta in the Sky" HDTV special last night from channel 57 and in the process I did a scan pointed north.

My DTC100 logged in some station at channel 59 as an analog channel. I don't know of any analog channel 59 around here, so I am wondering if they are doing some testing that confuses the tuner? I got no picture.

Bob Hess,

How's the progress with channel 38? Still on target for March 1st?

If not, any chance you could do some HDTV "Enterprise" broadcasts on ch 30 along with your movies?

Originally posted by cymro
jhe:
.....................................
As to stacking distances, subject to confirmation by experiment, I have a feeling that the spacing formula listed in the link I posted earlier is better than the tip to tip spacing that you've been using. Any chance that you could try the experiment?

I found quite a variety of stacking spacing recommendations on a web search, and it looks like the paper you found is far more current than the one I used.

When I fed it some numbers I got 43 inches as a good spacing for my Blakes. I will probably be conservative and widen my spacing to 35 inches or so this spring, since any lobing would be more of a problem than a slight gain loss.

(This is to optimize my horizontal stack for channel 57 reception with Blake JBX21-B antennas.)

My current approx 20 inches spacing is working pretty good for me. Got PBS good last night for the HDTV specials!

Hi all!

I just recently bought a Samsung SIR T100 HD receiver and a Terk TV55 indoor/outdoor antenna w/ amplifier. I live in the Brighton area on top of a hill with only one large house nearby. After setting everything up, and trying the antenna indoors (TV room is on the south side of the first floor) and on an eave outside over the front door, I can only manage to get 50% strength on FOX 25-1.

I am looking for any advice, alternate antennae/amplifiers, or setup ideas. I'd really like to get something reliable up before the Super Bowl and since I rent, I'd really like to get something that'll work indoors in order to minimize the wear on the house.

Thanks in advance!


Bryan

Dump the Terk. Try a more traditional antenna from Rat Shack(double bow tie) or You Do It Electronics. Do you have attic access? You will have better luck....

--Andy Garabedian

Bryan,
I am consistently getting around 70% on ALL 5 Boston stations down here in Warwick, RI --- using the Winegard GS-2000 w/ amp (Indoors) --- you might not even need the amp.
The simple Rat-shack may work for you, but if not I would recommend this for an apartment.
Stark in Worcester has this and many others, but this has worked great for me, and is not unattractive---although it is not small, can be easily hidden.

Keith

jhe:

The article recommends a distance of 52/(3db beamwidth) in wavelengths. Since beamwidth decreases with wavelength, the optimum
spacing is roughly independent of wavelength.


Regarding stacking distances for the Blakes, Blake was kind enough to supply me with measured polar plots for the JBX21WB. Using their data, the calculations are:

For the JBX21WB, the measured beamwidth (as supplied to me by Blake) is 23 degrees at ch 69 (wavelength = 14.7 inches), and 50 degrees at ch 14 (wavelength = 25 inches).

So, for ch 69, spacing = (52/23deg)*14.7ins = 33.25 inches
and, for ch 14, spacing = (52/50deg)*25ins = 26.0 inches.

The variation in beamwidth almost cancels out the variation in wavelength.

A compromise between these numbers is around 30 inches. If you're most interested in higher channels, then use 32 to 33 inches for the WB.

The JBX21C/D probably has a smaller beamwidth, so spacing ought to be increased. As a guess, I'd pick something like 40 inches spacing.

Hope this is useful for your experiments after your winter hibernation.

Back from Germany. Tuned in 07-1.

LENO IN HD.

Wow.

Great.

Jim & WHDH, Thanks, thanks, thanks.

While I'm still a Letterman fan, I think we'll all enjoy the Olympics.

Thanks,
Tim

Hi,

Over in the HDTV Programming forum the thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108634 says that NBC will be broadcasting the NBA game on Feb 3rd (Superbowl Sunday) in HD. Can anyone find out if WHDH will pass through that feed?

Sal

Originally posted by Sal
Hi,

Over in the HDTV Programming forum the thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108634 says that NBC will be broadcasting the NBA game on Feb 3rd (Superbowl Sunday) in HD. Can anyone find out if WHDH will pass through that feed?

Sal

This is the same game being shown on HDNet. It appears that NBC is simulcasting it. Since WHDH is now doing HD, I think it's safe to presume they will pass this through in HD. Jim Shultis has said WHDH will do the Olympic HD simulcast so showing this game in HD would be consistent.

WCVB, DT-20, has now been broadcasting in 1080i, instead of their usual 720p, for the last few days.

For all interested in NHPT 57 I am passing along e-mail (with permission) that I received.

We have an problem that started last during the last week in December that
causes the Channel 57 DTV transmitter to interfere with itself and our
analog service on Channel 11. It is very intermittent and we have not been
able to troubleshoot and resolve it because it has yet to occur long enough
to get someone to the transmitter site. It's been fine for about 10 days
but we are still watching for it because I'm sure it will come back. When
it occurs , we must take the DTV transmitter off the air so that our 600,000
analog households can still get their signal. This is why many of you have
tuned in and found we weren't there or might have seen us on 24 hrs a day
for a couple of day while we tried to "force" the problem. I ask you all to
understand that these are unplanned occurrences and trying to keep you all
up to date would take much more time than I have and would obviously take us
away from resolving the problem. I am looking into putting an Engineering
Status page on our web site but it would realistically be updated for
planned outages and longer term outages, not on a minute by minute basis.

Some notes for all of you:
The Ch 57 DTV transmitter is operating at its full licensed power
(589 KW average) and has been since we went on the air with it in Sep, 2000.
The transmission system is and has been a fixed entity, we are not making
any adjustments to the system that would account for differences in your
reception strength, this is all related to atmospherics, etc.
We do have control over what is in the data stream and normally just
pass through the PBS feed (identified as channel 80). When we transmit our
own signal, it is a standard definition analog signal (640x480i, 4:3) that
is converted to digital just before hitting the DTV encoding system. These
signals are not HDTV and do not actually look as good as their pre-converted
signal to us here in the studio. They may look better to you at home
because the DTV transmitter doesn't degrade a studio signal the way an
analog transmitter does. We hope to purchase some better conversion gear in
the fall that will give you a better Standard Definition signal when we
broadcast local things such as Hockey, Auction or some of the State House
stuff.

Thanks for your understanding. I'm thrilled to have all of you
watching and reporting and I really do appreciate your feedback.
Regards,

XXXXX XXXXXXX
Director of Engineering
New Hampshire Public Television
Durham, NH 03824

Originally posted by jeff43
WCVB, DT-20, has now been broadcasting in 1080i, instead of their usual 720p, for the last few days.

What brand HDTV do you have?

Last night, my WinTV-HD showed WCVB sending out 1920x1080 format.

Also, I was finally able to tune into Leno last night but just got upconverted 4x3 on both sub-channels.

Dave

I have the unity motion (Princeton Graphics) direct view monitor. The STB I use is the Panny tu-50. My monitor shows 720p natively which I think is a huge advantage.

Since WCVB can switch from 720p to 1080i with relative ease, I am sure, at some point, this will be common practice dependent upon the programming type...movies or sports.

Only problem is, very few monitors are currently able to show both HD formats natively.

I just put a Channel Master 7775 amplifier (UHF only) on my attic mounted 8-bay Wineguard antenna (dumped the Rat Shack yagi long ago).

CVB, BZ and FOX have always been good, strong signals around 80%. Now, the signal is marginally higher but they are rock solid.

WHDH is a different story all together. The attic mount is not optimal because it's only on top of a one story garage. HDH has always had variable signals not watchable during day time (5 -30%) and sometimes watchable at night (40 - 70%). So far after installing the amplifier, day time signal is still highly variable, but it is 40 - 70% and watchable. Even though the signal varies, the overall level is high enough that the receiver can stay locked on. I assume that the variability is due to multi path. It's odd that all the other stations don't exhibit any. I'll see how the night time signal is tonight.

Amplifiers can help with multi path problems if it gets the minimum signal above the threshold that the receiver can lock on to. Obviously, the multi path signal is still present.

This is just one of many in a long line of improvements over three months... Happy that the Pats are on BZ tonight, though...

btw- using a DTV-1080 receiver.
Question: the APG shows both 7-1 and 7-2 but there is no programming info for the 7-2, any one know why?

Thanks to all the help from this board, I just joined the HDTV world a few minutes ago. Here is my question, I am in Wellesley and am able to pick up all stations execpt WGBH with my indoor RS bow tie. Is WGBH broadcasting now (it's Saturday afternoon) or do they only broadcast at select times? Thanks again for all the help.

Congratulations on getting all four stations in. Sometimes not an easy task. WGBH only broadcasts friday evenings as of now as they are still testing their signal. Enjoy:)

I'm sure Jim would be O.K. with me passing this info on to you all.

Somewhat un-announced HD programming on WHDH, Sunday at around 2:30PM the second NBA game on NBC between the Lakers and the Mavericks will be broadcast in HD. And if all goes well it may actually be in 5.1 audio as well.

Enjoy

Richard,

Great heads up. Thanks.

HDH still plagued with dropouts and mini-freezes but it's all part of HD coming on line (i.e., I'm not complaining). DD5.1 would be an even bigger bonus.

Tim

Originally posted by David Fisk
Last night, my WinTV-HD showed WCVB sending out 1920x1080 format.

Also, I was finally able to tune into Leno last night but just got upconverted 4x3 on both sub-channels.

Dave

Only caught the tail end of Leno, but it was HD on 7-01.

Tim

Originally posted by Richard_P_Harvey
Somewhat un-announced HD programming on WHDH, Sunday at around 2:30PM the second NBA game on NBC between the Lakers and the Mavericks will be broadcast in HD. You don't mean tomorrow (Sunday Jan. 20), do you? I believe the HD game is on Superbowl Sunday, Feb. 3.

What happened to BZ tonite? I lost them on 30. I have 20, 31 and 42 just fine. Figures, with the Pats playing...:mad:

Originally posted by wclark
What happened to BZ tonite? I lost them on 30. I have 20, 31 and 42 just fine. Figures, with the Pats playing...:mad:

Everything OK at BZ tonight.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ

Originally posted by Bob Hess


Everything OK at BZ tonight.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ

On your end, maybe. I was observing 70-90 signal quality (DTC100) on the other digital broadcasts and 0-25 on channel 30. I would be blaming my "view" of the towers, the snow or antenna except 20 was doing fine - still on your tower, right?

You may recall I am only a few miles SW of the tower (5.05 mi bearing 219T, elevation 200 ft)

I ended up watching 4 but since I removed my VHF antenna 2-4-5-7 come in poorly on the UHF bow tie.

Originally posted by wclark


On your end, maybe. I was observing 70-90 signal quality (DTC100) on the other digital broadcasts and 0-25 on channel 30. I would be blaming my "view" of the towers, the snow or antenna except 20 was doing fine - still on your tower, right?

You may recall I am only a few miles SW of the tower (5.05 mi bearing 219T, elevation 200 ft)

I ended up watching 4 but since I removed my VHF antenna 2-4-5-7 come in poorly on the UHF bow tie.

I didn't consistantly watch channel 30, but I kept flipping back to it and never lost it last night and I'm about 50 miles from the tower. I did notice some signal fluctuations last night (probably from the snow) across all the channels that would bounce them up and down quite a bit, but still never lost any of them.

-Mike

Originally posted by Bob Hess


Everything OK at BZ tonight.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ


Reception was great for me. Had one instance of black screen somewhere around 10:30 for about 15 seconds, but the picture was rock solid other than that.
In fact the snow must have done a great job with Multipath reduction, because I got a strong steady signal on all of the digital channels, usually the signal is strong but not all that steady. Now if the game was only in Hd...

Originally posted by wkhz


WGBH-DT transmitting at least every evening would make Boston truely one of the super HD cities.

I would have liked to think so. But in fact Boston, for its size, is one of the worst. Indeed, we are one of the last to have a major network pass HDTV (NBC), and the last major city to pass PBS HDTV-- a true shame since we are the "flagship" PBS content producer (WGBH). I define major as the top FCC cities mandated on the timetable.

For all the Boston metro high-tech, how does one explain this? I don't know-- perhaps a separate topic, but perhaps it's the New England media culture? Blue-collar, low-tech? Still I don't get PBS being so backward here. I don't buy the "number of HDTV receiving sets" nonsense from WGBH-- how do they explain all the other cities that ARE broadcasting and have been for over a year? WGBH is probably the best-funded of all PBS affiliates. That to me points to a cultural at worst, bad management at best, reasoning.

Anyway I'm happy to see GBH at least "testing" their transmitters.

Spearse

Everything OK at BZ tonight.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ
===================================
Yes it was Bob!
Plenty of snow and just one drop-out observed while watching the Pats game, way up here in vacationland.

I am a little confused and disappointed. I am watching my first HD tv show tonight - The Practice on WCVB. While the picture is good, it is not amazingly good. I would equate to just below DVD quality. Am I missing something? Also, I am watching on a 4x3 and the picture is not letterboxed. Shouldn't it be?

Originally posted by rbbyb
I am a little confused and disappointed. I am watching my first HD tv show tonight - The Practice on WCVB. While the picture is good, it is not amazingly good. I would equate to just below DVD quality. Am I missing something? Also, I am watching on a 4x3 and the picture is not letterboxed. Shouldn't it be?

We need more info to evaluate your situation. Are you using a digital HD-tuner to view WCVB? If so, are you viewing WCVB on its digital station (20-1) or its analog station (5)? Or are you using a cable system to watch this program? If you are using a digital tuner and watching on ch. 20-1, is your tuner in the HD mode or SD mode? If you can answer these questions, we may be able to tell you what your poblem is.

I am using a Samsung sir-150 stb and a Toshiba 36hf71 hdtv. As far as I know, the Samsung only pulls in digital stations. I was watching what it said was 5-1. Again, the picture was better than analog cable but similar to DVD. In fact, I switched to HBO on AT&T digital cable and I thought the picture was about the same. That doesn't seem right. Also, should the picture from an HD program come in in letterbox format? It wasn't. Thanks for any help.

hi there Bob Hess and HD-viewers...
last night during _the practice_ i noticed
an oddity. in dark scenes, and especially
during the fade-to-black before commercial,
while TV/signal is still in "HD mode",
the upper left quadrant of the screen
is a lighter color than the rest of the
screen. i saw this repeatedly during
_the practice_ on 5.1 last night.
switching over to the 4.1 cbs-hd chuck
norris movie, i saw no such 'light colored
quadrant' during their fade to black or
during dark scenes. any clue about this?
my tv is sony 34xbr2 and i'm using radio
shack vx-120r outdoor antenna (without vhf pieces
installed) indoors in southern NH.
i suppose this light-colored-quadrant could
be some artifact introduced by my sony tv,
perhaps relating to a 720p->1080i conversion
that it does. i'm not sure if the tv displays
720p "native" or whether it converts it to 1080i,
but i think it's the latter. additionally
during one scene where "Jimmy" moved somewhat
quickly horizontally, i thought i saw interlace-artifacts, something i very rarely (never?) see on an HD broadcast.

also while i've got you all "on the line"
how about this -
during the pats game and other 4.1 broadcasts
i have noted that the 4.1 image is significantly
wider than the analog channel 4 image. i have
confirmed that the 4.1 image is actually showing
me an extra inch or so of image on each side
of the analog-framed-image. so this is a nice win. but i don't understand the how/why about this. and also i note that WCVB-DT 5.1 does not
similarly show me a little extra/wider image
compared to analog 5. how come channel 4.1 gives
me some bonus image size compared to 4, but
5.1 does not do that compared to 5? previously
someone mentioned overscan as a reason, but i'd
be interested to hear every detail about this,
and why it would apply to 4.1 but not 5.1 .

thank you,
steve elias aka eli aka "tveli"

Originally posted by rbbyb
I am using a Samsung sir-150 stb and a Toshiba 36hf71 hdtv. As far as I know, the Samsung only pulls in digital stations. I was watching what it said was 5-1. Again, the picture was better than analog cable but similar to DVD. In fact, I switched to HBO on AT&T digital cable and I thought the picture was about the same. That doesn't seem right. Also, should the picture from an HD program come in in letterbox format? It wasn't. Thanks for any help.

HD set-top boxes have an adjustment for 4:3 TVs so the picture can fill the screen from a digital channel without the black top/bottom bars. Yours must be set in 'cropped' mode. I'm not familiar with the Samsung STB but check in the menu for screen adjustments.

Originally posted by tveli
hi there Bob Hess and HD-viewers...
last night during _the practice_ i noticed
an oddity. in dark scenes, and especially
during the fade-to-black before commercial,
while TV/signal is still in "HD mode",
the upper left quadrant of the screen
is a lighter color than the rest of the
screen.

I saw this same lighter top left block while watching Alias
last night on my PC via my AccessDTV card. I was also
wondering if it was a system hiccup, but other stations
were not doing this.
So clearly it is not your system, or mine, but some artifact
of the encoded broadcast. I hope WCVB can fix it!

With the SIR-T150 if set in 4:3 mode and zoom - you should not see the bars.

I think the quality of most of the HD content in nowhere near as good as it could be... tune into WGBH on Friday nights (Thursday days as well...but I have to work to pay for the hobby!) and you should see some excellent examples of true HDTV.

Saw some of the 101 Dalmatians, and it looked OK - possibly better then the RP56, but no DVD to actually compare.

You should also notice that DTV looks better than digital cable... so maybe something in your setup is off...cables?

Haw far are you from the 36"?

Any idea why FOX is broadcasting with such low power?

Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 78.0 kW ERP

I'm interested in seeing the SB, but not interested in mounting my house to an antenna....:-)

(currently have a channel master 4-bow tie UHF only)

-Greg

A couple weeks ago when WHDH was getting their HD broadcast up and running I watched a few shows on 7.1 that were 16x9 ratio but "encapsulated" in a standard 4x3 480p signal.

Can anyone tell me why this was?

More importantly, can anyone tell me if FOX's upcoming broadcast of the superbowl will look the same?

mikep

Regarding channel remapping:

Is it common for the channel map to change as follows?:

NBC scanned as 42 & normally remaps to 7-1 & 7-2
*on more than one occasion, possible during signal degradation or atmospherics, NBC will automatically remap to 42-2 & 42-3 and remove 7-1 & 7-2 in the process.

FOX scanned as 31? & normally remaps to 25-1
*same as above, and FOX will remap to 31-2 and remove the entry for 25-1...

I have had no problem re-adding the correct channel by Manual Add....just curious if this is due to signal drops or is carried in the broadcast, or what...

Keith
"Using a DTV1080 w/ OTA"

mikepa:

Some shows on the analog channels like ER I believe are shown "widescreen" or letterbox on a 4:3 broadcast. The digital channel simply takes that signal and puts it in a 16:9 frame, so effectively you have a 16:9 window in a 4:3 frame in a 16:9 frame. I dont know whether the broadcast stations can take the letterbox feed and simply crop out the extraneous black bars and just show us the "zoomed" signal.

pezdoctor:

If your stb looses the lock and then tries to regain the lock and the signal is too weak, sometimes it fails to correctly decipher the fact that there is a channel map info remapping for example 31 to channel 25. therefore you will suddenly see it revert to channel 31. However as soon as the stb starts getting a lock on the signal properly, it should revert back to 25-1 or whatever channel you were watching.

Hope this helps.
Sal

I finally figured out today why I can't get WGBH-DT in without constant breakups when they test broadcast on channel 19.

I know WCEA is the Boston station currently on 19, but has to turn off when WGBH is testing. Well I was suffering from breakups, while other Boston stations are running between 70 - 90% signal strength. Well I tried today to see what's on 19, and I didn't get a Spanish station but an ABC affliate... After doing some research, turns out I'm picking up WCDC "WTEN 10" which isn't required to turn off obviously since it's a different market, so I'm pretty much screwed for getting WGBH.

I'm not exactly sure how I am getting WCDC since my antenna is directional and pointed at Boston, but it must be picking it up off the back side of the antenna...

-Mike

Originally posted by two-rocks
Any idea why FOX is broadcasting with such low power?

Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 78.0 kW ERP

I'm interested in seeing the SB, but not interested in mounting my house to an antenna....:-)

(currently have a channel master 4-bow tie UHF only)

-Greg

Greg - You hit the nail right on the head, THEY'RE CHEAP!! I'm using the same attic-mounted CM3021 antenna in Andover that you have and this is the ONLY channel I ever have problems with. For the last week its been solid using a new antenna vector (on the rotator) but starting last night I can't get it without constant breakups. I have no snow left on the roof, and last night was clear and calm so I just don't get it. I tried about a zillion different vectors, none with success. All other channels remain solid, so it has to be their low power transmitter. I'm at my wits end. I guess I'll have to try an amplifier since mounting outside isn't really an option. Either way, they'll be getting some correspondance from me today, although I doubt it will make it through their thick skulls. In my book, with WHDH-DT now actually transmitting HD content, WFXT-DT proudly holds the last-place spot among Boston metro area digital broadcasters (not counting GBH) and they seem quite content to be there.

I've had problems getting a lockable signal on 25-1 down here in Taunton until I recenty purchased a coaxial cable extension for my RS VHF/UHF set-top amp. ant. I moved the antenna over to a west-facing window sill and now get anywhere from 30 (during middle of the afternoon/unlockable) to as much as 55 (at night and most of rest of the day). From 45 and up, my SR-HD5 receives a fairly rock-hard lockable signal now. I believe I will have no problem watching the Pats-Rams in the Super Bowl (keeping my fingers crossed). Also, 20 and 30 are now coming in at 100%, 42 at about 50-60%, 19 at about 65%. On the subject of WGBH, they have been coming on the past couple of late afternoons at 5PM on both their SD and HD stations. I don't know what time they are broadcasting until.

I noticed WGBH on Monday at about 7pm. Just as I was ready to watch the demo loop (again!), they shut down. I usually get home from work between 7 and 8 and they're usually down by then.