Bob,

Thursday is August 1. Can you give us an update on WSBK? Does anyone have info on WLVI?

Thanks
SMK

Originally posted by rjd
I got my TU-DST51 back from Panasonic today. The repair notes
said they did some soldering and cleaning (nothing about firmware).
SAP audio problem was not fixed.

In addition, I got an invoice of $230 for my in-warranty repair. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the other person who sent his unit in fared any better.

Sounds like you got about the same price and same result as I got for my TU-DST50 upgrade. (Mine is out of warranty, but I am ignoring the invoice because they promised to call with a price before they did anything beyond a $50 inspection fee.) Mine now has a Panasonic Case Number, and they insist there is a fix somewhere and no explanation of why it was not installed in my tuner. Anyway it is now back at Panasonic for a re-fix.

Luckily I have 2 and my other one has old code and works fine on the audio, and video too, except I can't turn off the mapping so I can't ever tell which channel I am really tuned to! This is a problem only because my best antenna aim is not the same for 19 and 43 but they are close, so if I aim for the wrong one I get glitches frequently!

In other news, I am having the same kind of problem with my Samsung: It too came back from repair and looks untouched!
Same old bad code from last year! A manager is supposed to call me today about it.

I downloaded the PSIP how to guide from the ATSC and it is pretty interesting: I glean from it that WGBH is really pushing the envelope a bit beyond what PSIP is supposed to be doing (like using multiple main virtual channels), but there are lots of PSIP features (such as showing automatically customized advertising on a subchannel just for your zip code, and not under your control- ie the channel switches automatically for you!) and lots more audio tracks we can't select, that are not being used yet. If the manufacturers don't keep their firmware up to speed with the stations as we move forward, we are all going to have nice paperweights every 2 years!

Originally posted by RoyGBiv
Bob,

Thursday is August 1. Can you give us an update on WSBK? Does anyone have info on WLVI?

Thanks
SMK

Late August (see my post on July 22 in this thread).

- Bob

Can the person who posted regarding the problem with WGBH PSIP and the 6000 follow up with the information one more time. I can't find your original post. Please add the "case #" and phone # for the Dish support person. Thanks.

Sorry, I've been pretty busy lately and I hadn't noticed if anyone with a Samsung can map either of the PBS stations now. I saw some people with other brands of STB's were seeing the mapping change quite a bit, but When I wrote to PBS over a month ago they told me it was a 3-4 week test and then I would be able to see them again. I tried last night and still no PBS through channels 2, 19, 43 or 44. Anyone else still having this issue?

Originally posted by SUTTONHT
Sorry, I've been pretty busy lately and I hadn't noticed if anyone with a Samsung can map either of the PBS stations now. I saw some people with other brands of STB's were seeing the mapping change quite a bit, but When I wrote to PBS over a month ago they told me it was a 3-4 week test and then I would be able to see them again. I tried last night and still no PBS through channels 2, 19, 43 or 44. Anyone else still having this issue?

SuttonHT,

Yeah, I'm still having problems with 'GBH too. I wrote them a note today, but haven't heard back yet. I'm getting mildly miffed at not being able to tune into PBS due to broadcasting choices they made WRT PSIP (and aren't bothering to address), but their HD content is so lacking that I don't really feel like I'm missing too much.

Mike

My mapping on my HiPix seems to be correct (unless you guys/gals) tell me otherwise. Is this correct?(see attached image)

I decided to add channel 19 manually, it seems to work fine, see attached image:

Jim

Originally posted by vfrjim
I decided to add channel 19 manually, it seems to work fine, see attached image:

Jim

Hi Jim,

It seems that the PSIP mapping problem affects us Samsung T150 owners worse than others. If someone knows of a way that I can manually add 19 and 43, please let me know!

mike

With my DST51 somewhat is service, this is what I see for GBH/GBX...

With channel mapping ON:
19: remaps to 44 and WGBX is received
43: no mapping, with GBX on 43-2 and GBH on 43-3
02: a single SD channel carrying GBH
44: a single SD channel carrying GBX

Looks like they are still running identical programming on both 19 & 43,
but they have PSIP set up to map one subchannel to 02 and the other to
44.

Originally posted by ismeltitudeltit
Can the person who posted regarding the problem with WGBH PSIP and the 6000 follow up with the information one more time. I can't find your original post. Please add the "case #" and phone # for the Dish support person. Thanks.

Dish didn't open a "case" but rather an "uncommon trend".
To get there from here, go through the normal Dish number,
1-800-333-DISH, ask for advanced tech support [for the 8VSB]. I believe the tech filed it under the title: "Virtual channel not saved". Whan manually mapping channel 19, 44 is displayed in the Add DTV dialog but only 2-1 is saved.

Please add your name to it as well, the more calls, the more attention! (Also, I had asked in a previous tech support email if there was a way to disable the virtual mapping, and they replied it was not possible at this time.)

Thursday, August 1 is the day that Titantv.com has reported for the debut of WLVI-DT 41-1 and Providence's WWDP-DT 51-1 (PAX). Has anyone who subscribes to a Boston newspaper (I don't) read anything concerning whether Ch. 56 will keep this date, or not? I usually check these stations out fairly regularly and haven't seen any test signals. Also Providence's WPRI-DT 13-1 is scheduled for August 30. I suppose we'll have to wait until Thursday to find out.

Word from the WLVI engineering department is that "they are working on it [WLVI-DT] and that it would probably be ready in the next two months, maybe October 1st".

Originally posted by SUTTONHT
Sorry, I've been pretty busy lately and I hadn't noticed if anyone with a Samsung can map either of the PBS stations now. I saw some people with other brands of STB's were seeing the mapping change quite a bit, but When I wrote to PBS over a month ago they told me it was a 3-4 week test and then I would be able to see them again. I tried last night and still no PBS through channels 2, 19, 43 or 44. Anyone else still having this issue?

Our Samsungs clearly are in worse shape than the others, but the problems are spreading. We know from Lee Wood that the Samsung can't tolerate Nielsen data. And it probably can't handle any digital data in the retrace, which would explain 19 and 43 problems. Now with national closed captioning being turned on by PBS it looks like DTC100's etc are affected too!

So everyone with a digital tuner should read about it from the only station that is talking around here so far:

Go to http://www.nhptv.org and click on "schedule" and then click on "transmission status". (then enlarge the pop up window as needed. The important stuff is at the end.)

And where is says they are trying to fix it at the station encoder I wish them luck, but I expect to need new code in all of my tuners again real soon! This PSIP stuff isn't even being used 10% yet!

Originally posted by rjd
I got my TU-DST51 back from Panasonic today. The repair notes
said they did some soldering and cleaning (nothing about firmware).
SAP audio problem was not fixed.

In addition, I got an invoice of $230 for my in-warranty repair. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the other person who sent his unit in fared any better.
I'm afraid I had a similar experience. My DST-51 came back with a service description of "Unit Modified". Unfortunately it still operates exactly as before. I also received the same $230 invoice despite their assurance there would be no charge. I have spoken to them since. They could not tell me what had been done, but they gave me their UPS number to send the unit back to them at their expense. They told me to include a note describing the problem - exactly what I did the first time - and they would try to fix it. I am not at all confident that sending it back will result in any different outcome. I also pointed them to this forum so that they could see that other people were having the same problem and what that problem was.

I spoke with Panasonic also. They explained that the invoice was not actually meant for me, that it is a bill that the service center sends to the warranty department. Two days later, I got a letter in the mail explaining that there was no payment due.

As for the box not being fixed, I got the same story as HDTV Geek - they asked me to send it back with another note, this time at their expense. I did. This time, I asked specifically for the unit to be given a firmware upgrade, along with explicit instructions on how to test to make sure the box works correctly. With any luck, they will follow the instructions. If not, maybe they will upgrade me to an HDS22:) ?!?

I finally got a response from PBS, it looks as though the wait will continue.

Here was their response:


"Thank you for your e-mail about the problems you are experiencing with DT19 and DT43 using your Samsung HDTV receiver. We are broadcasting identical program streams on both WGBH-DT 19 and WGBH-DT 43 from our single microwave. The Samsung boxes are receiving both channels but the PSIP information is the same, which means that the receiver cannot differentiate between the channels. This will continue until we have our second microwave in place towards the end of August.

Thank you for your patience while we are in this testing phase of our DTV
stations.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience and Member Services"

SuttonHT,

I got the same reply from WGBH regarding the Samsung.
And I wrote WGBH back that there must be more to the problem than they are stating!

I also called Samsung, after getting my box back unfixed, and they agreed to look into the issue on our boxes.

Regarding the double mapping, that can not be the whole problem because:

1 Channel 19 and 57 used to both map to 80 and I never had a problem switching back and forth between these same-mapped channels.

2 I scanned the Samsung without antenna to clear out all channels, then scanned and tried to get 43 back when 19 was only on evenings. I tested when only 43 was broadcasting,
and the Samsung still could not see 43!

I see WGBH is still making slow improvements even while they have only one encoder: They now map the channels as 2-1 and 2-2 on my old Panasonic tuner, and now I can toggle the sub-channels like normal!

WENH-DT which has also failed at times on Samsung, was working fine again over the weekend. So maybe the encoder
companies, or Samsung will get this fixed soon.

FYI: I have rev 1.8 Samsung code. Samsung told me the 2.0 code only affected audio, so would not help with the Boston
area problem.

hi. my sony TV now handles the PBS PSIP shuffle properly,
or at least much better, now that
have executed the function "DTV auto-add".
i don't know if PBS changed something or not.

awaiting SIR-T165, to try with Philips 480 dvd-recorder,
and maybe with JVC 30k D-VHS later,

Derek K.,

Did the new convertor box fix your dropout problem?

I'm having a few audio dropout issues myself. On occasion, the audio will dropout and I have to change channels to get it back. This happened last night while watching King of Queens on 284.

Have you ever encountered this?

By the way, I have two 3100HD converter boxes, one hooked up to an LCD projector and the other to a 36" direct view. I have been watching the direct view more often lately, so I don't know if the other box is having the same problems or not.

D

Yep, the new box is working perfectly. I wasn't watching cable last night, so I don't know if there were any dropouts. Sorry.

I put a fan on top of the original box to cool it off. I found that if I turned the fan off, the audio would start dropping out in about 10 minutes. Eventually the sound would completely shut off and I would have to change the channel to get the sound back. Once I turned the fan back on, the audio would be fine. Sounds like your box might be bad as well. I think they had commented that they had another dead box when I called to complain about mine. These audio and video problems only seemed to affect the hd channels.

I also had the original box lockup on me and I had to unplug it in order to use it again.

BTW, they extended the trail another month. If you call them, ask them about getting hdnet. The guy I talked to (Scott) had no idea what hdnet was, but he said he would pass my request on. I also asked about discovery hd theater, and he said they were looking into it but it would probably be an additional charge to subscribe.

Derek

Thanks for the info Derek. I will call to get my box exchanged to see if that helps.

Also, you read my mind. I already emailed Wayne Cullen at S.C.C (who's out on vacation till August 14 apparently) about offering HDNet and HD Discovery Theater. I would be willing to pay a small monthly fee for Discovery as I love nature documentaries and such. HDNet would also be very cool.


By the way, I didn't quite understand one of your statements, are you saying they extended the beta testing period till the end of August?

Thanks again,
-D

Yep. I called Monday to see if they were going to start charging me for the hd service, but I was told they extended the free trail until the end of August. The guy said they would call me to let me know when the trial was over.

He also mentioned that the extension was due to problems they were having with the service, but he didn't elaborate.

Enjoy the free HBO and Showtime for another month!

Derek

does anyone think that it would make sense to have
Boston HD-cable issues in a separate thread from the
Boston OTA-HD issues?
thanks,

Tveli,

Your point is well taken.

I'll start another thread for any new posts related to Boston/Shrewsbury Cable HD service.

-D

Looks like WGBH got their second PSIP encoder.

I now get 43-2 and 43-3 on channel 43, and
2-1 and 2-2 on channel 19!

But:

My Samsung 150 still gets nothing on either.

My Panasonic model 50 fresh back from repair is worse than
ever: I used to get audio on one sub channel and SAP audio on the other.

Now I get the same SAP audio on one and no sound at all on the other. Looks like they're trying to guess at what to decode instead of reading where to get the right sound from in the packets. That is assuming other tuners still work fine!

I also got my DST51 back from repair (yesterday). It still has the SAP
problem (though it's been "resoldered" and "cleaned" twice now!).

After a bit of investigation, I was able to find an engineering manager
at their facility in California. After explaining the circumstance to him,
I got the following reply...


Regarding your comment about Panasonic ATSC unit, TU-DST51
not receiving the main audio.

Unfortunately, when this unit was developed, only one audio channel was
available. Therefore, this unit is capable of capturing only Audio CH 1.
If the broadcaster transmits the main audio program in a different
channel, TU-DST51 will only capture CH1, regardless of if it is main audio
or not.

TU-DST51 is not capable of capturing the main audio program, unless
it is transmitted in audio CH 1.


Not sure exactly what is meant by "Channel 1", the first audio PID
identified in the PMT perhaps? Anyone out there have a way of getting a PMT dump of WGBH/X?

-Bob

Bob,

If the problem is the 51 is so old, how come the only Panasonic that works is the old model 50 without the code updates?

I downloaded the PSIP specs and it looks pretty clear how it is supposed to work, and it is also pretty clear nobody is doing it right yet.

The spec says something about setting the correct audio track for each video channel based on the id and language selected, etc, and if it can't be sure which to use it is to come up with a menu for the user to pick it!

Does any tuner do that yet?????

WGBH-DT and WGBX-DT are still doing relatively simple stuff with only 2 audio tracks I think at this point. There could be many more to pick from in the future on lots of channels!

At least you got through to Panasonic though. The phones seem to be very busy lately there.

I agree. The '50 seems to work OK, but the '51 doesn't. So someone
broke something along the way. If I can get the information on
what GBH is doing with the PMT and PSIP, maybe I can either get
Panasonic to fix their firmware OR they can tell GBH what's wrong
with their encoding. I haven't lost hope yet.

-Bob

Originally posted by rjd
I agree. The '50 seems to work OK, but the '51 doesn't. So someone
broke something along the way. If I can get the information on
what GBH is doing with the PMT and PSIP, maybe I can either get
Panasonic to fix their firmware OR they can tell GBH what's wrong
with their encoding. I haven't lost hope yet.

-Bob

Just confirming....

A '50 with the latest ROMs (i.e. where you can disable channel mapping) does have the problem. (Regardless whether the channel mapping is enabled/disabled.)

A '50 with the prior ROMs handles 19 and 43 OK.
Eventhoug it doesn't have the channel mapping disable feature, it does handle the case where both 19 & 43 map to 2-xx. [i.e. 19 maps to 2-xx, and 43 maps to 43-xx.]

Did anyone have problems watching Speed 2 tonite on channel 20 (5.1)? It occured at about 10pm tonite.

My picture turned all green on my HiPix card, but all other stations worked fine.


Jim

Originally posted by vfrjim
Did anyone have problems watching Speed 2 tonite on channel 20 (5.1)? It occured at about 10pm tonite.

My picture turned all green on my HiPix card, but all other stations worked fine.

Oh, is that what that movie was? :-)

I saw the same thing on my dish6000 (about the same time as the demo channel sound disappeared, scary!), then noticed it on the hipix too. Station problem!

-Steve.

The screen went yellow for me on both my 6000 and mits internal, but the sound was fine. I emailed WCVB around 10:30 and it was better by the end of the movie although I was more interested in watching Elvis on NBC. The DD5.1 sure is nice though, and OAR to boot!

WB on tonight in HD, except....

Originally posted by rudolpht
WB on tonight in HD, except....

EXCEPT WHAT???

Originally posted by rudolpht
WB on tonight in HD, except....

Except their programming still sucks????

Is 41 on the air yet?

Originally posted by Benji
EXCEPT WHAT???

Except in Boston.

Actually there are very few WB show I would watch, but I always like a clearer station, even for SD. I'll be pretty happy when all the major English locals are digital.

Tim

Heheh I went looking for WB last night to no avail :) On another note, is channel 7 broadcasting with more power now? I used to have to turn my antenna to pick them up but now I get 7 fairly well at the same position as 2/4/5. I'm not complaining!
-Trouble

I couldn't get WB DT either last night.

Originally posted by wkhz
I couldn't get WB DT either last night. I don't believe they have even begun digital broadcasting yet.

Originally posted by Troubleshooter
Heheh I went looking for WB last night to no avail :) On another note, is channel 7 broadcasting with more power now? I used to have to turn my antenna to pick them up but now I get 7 fairly well at the same position as 2/4/5. I'm not complaining!
-Trouble Occassionally, probably as a result of tropespheric ducting, some of the weaker digitals come in consideraly stronger than usual. I don't generally get better than 50-60 on 42-1 on my Hughes E-86 but late last night and early this morning it was at 95. Now it's back to normal.

yesterday jhe mentioned that channel 7 might be transmitting
with full power, or more power . and indeed when
i checked the signal strength meter i saw that channel 7
now appears more powerful than 4 & 5 , at my place
in southern NH, with the fixed antenna-direction i have
chosen... channel 5 has been weakest lately - resulting
in more than 2 screen-goes-blank occurrences during
our favorite dopey abc sitcoms such as world according to jim belushi... i hope these glitches don't occur when
nypd blue starts up again!

Last time I spoke to WB56, they were targeting October as their
ch. 41 on-air date.

Thanks rdj

The temporary authorization which WHDH had to run
at 300~ kw doesn't show up in the FCC database
any longer. Only the license for 948kW.

Hi all,

Quick question from a new purchaser of an HD rig. I have the TV, and am ready to buy the box, if I felt confident that I would pick up a signal. I'm in Newton, and Newton is a hilly little place. Should I be worried about being on the wrong side of a hill for OTA reception? I don't see much discussion of the microenvironment here...

worm
just go to i think its called antennaweb.org it tells you where the channels are in relation to you. Hope this helps

-nate

Originally posted by wormboy
Hi all,

Quick question from a new purchaser of an HD rig. I have the TV, and am ready to buy the box, if I felt confident that I would pick up a signal. I'm in Newton, and Newton is a hilly little place. Should I be worried about being on the wrong side of a hill for OTA reception? I don't see much discussion of the microenvironment here...

If you have access to a roof-top antenna, you should have no problem at all. The towers are in Needham, only a few miles from you. Your biggest problem may be multipath interference. Do you get a good OTA signal from the analog stations?

wormboy:

I live on the Newton/Waltham border. I get poor to medicore analog OTA signals with an indoor omnidirectional antenna. I get 90-100 percent signal on all the digital channels though.

Unless you're stick behind some huge hills, you should get great signals. The towers, afterall, are pretty high!

Bob Hess,
It is the last week of August, are we still set for an August start of WSBK.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

Originally posted by alv
Bob Hess,
It is the last week of August, are we still set for an August start of WSBK.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

WSBK is still waiting for the antenna combiner port to arrive. It was due to arrive on August 23 but has been delayed for another two weeks. After that, allow a week or two for installation. As we found out with WBZ, there are so many DTV projects in the works right now that the few companies that make this kind of hardware are buried with business. The company building the combiner did verify on Friday that the combiner is built and will soon be tested.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV, WBZ-AM, WODS-FM

Thanks for the update.....

Here is a UPN38 update:

Our antenna combiner port is due to arrive on September 4. This will allow WSBK to broadcast into the WBZ master antenna system. The transmitter is installed and has been checked out. Once the combiner port arrives, a very difficult installation process begins, which may involve off time for some of the DTV stations on our tower. Once the installation crew arrives, I will be able to post an approximate on-air date which, hopefully, will be around mid September - but this depends on the available of three construction crews.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV

Bob Hess

Just a note to thank you for your contribution to the hdtv community in New England. I am sure all of us appreciate your efforts to get the Boston area converted to hdtv. Not only that but you have kept us informed every step of the way. I personally think your the best engineer in the Boston market and hope your compensation reflects that :) I just felt it appropriate to thank you for your efforts.

John Alferes:)

Thanks, John.

- Bob

Bob Hess: To date I don't believe there has been any official CBS announcement concerning College Football in HD. Should we assume that it will be? Also are you privy to any inside information concerning NFL games being in HD in the near future?

Thanks Bob, I am also very grateful for the info you provide us !!

Has anyone heard any news on the Status of Channel 2 and 44 for those of us who own Samsung boxes and have been left in the dark for the last 12 weeks due to their 3 week testing phase?

I've been reading this thread and would also be interested in an update about receiving PBS on my Samsung T-151. Thanks for your help.

Bob Hess:

I just read that WBZ and WSBK are picking up the Red Sox starting next year. Any chance of an HD production? WBZ is certainly one of the leaders for HD in the country, and with WSBK being HD real soon, I think this would be an incredible way to promote HD, especially considering the passion (love/hate) us locals have for the Sox. :)

This time, when we say "Wait till next year" we may really have something to look forward to. Unfortunately (for PQ reasons), it looks like more games are moving over to NESN. See more info here. (http://www.boston.com/sports/redsox/news/090502_soxtv.htm)

- Hal

I wish that MORE games would be on either WBZ, WSBK(as long as it is SD/HD) and WFXT, I cannot stand the compression of NESN.

Jim

Even though I am in New York, I occasionally check into this thread to find out about the rescheduled WBZ tour. Did I miss it?

Originally posted by Bill Slack
Bob Hess:

I just read that WBZ and WSBK are picking up the Red Sox starting next year. Any chance of an HD production? WBZ is certainly one of the leaders for HD in the country, and with WSBK being HD real soon, I think this would be an incredible way to promote HD, especially considering the passion (love/hate) us locals have for the Sox. :)

We could not agree with you more. We're looking into the prospect of airing at least one game in HD. No guarantees. There are a lot of technical and non-technical complications, but we're looking into it very seriously.

Bob

Originally posted by D B
Even though I am in New York, I occasionally check into this thread to find out about the rescheduled WBZ tour. Did I miss it?

No!

Bob

Bob: Then I guess it would be pushing it to have ALL the 4/38 games in HD?

Bob:

The smile on my face is very large. That is great news... And even if just (maybe) one game next year, it means the future IS bright! Thanks!!! :) :) :)

And yeah, NESN on DBS, especially is terrible looking. Here's to hoping WBZ picks up more than the minimum amount (4?) of games.

I'm also hoping that WBZ picks up more games. NESN quality is bad over cable as well. What do they do to make their picture look so bad?

Bob Hess, just wondering if the antenna combiner port ever came in? I know it will still be a while if it did, I was just hoping the parts weren't delayed again....And Even 1 SOX game in HD would be outstanding !!!

Originally posted by SUTTONHT
Bob Hess, just wondering if the antenna combiner port ever came in? I know it will still be a while if it did, I was just hoping the parts weren't delayed again....And Even 1 SOX game in HD would be outstanding !!!
Our antenna combiner port arrived yesterday. Installation has begun. I will continue to post updates when I have something worthwhile to say.

Because channels 38 and 39 are adjacent channel stations, and because they are not co-located transmitters, we need to make some modifications to the channel 38 analog transmitter such that the 38 and 39 transmitters are precisely locked on frequency. We expect to do this work overnight this week. We hope to have the combiner port installed by the end of next week.

Remember guys, there will not be any HD material on WSBK-DT for awhile. We will try to air some local movies in HD, perhaps in a month or two.

Bob

thanks for the speedy reply !!! Even if there isn't much HD material at first, it will be comforting to have my tuner recognize another channell or two :)

i agree that even one game in hd is worth it. Sorta reeks about nesn getting more games. But any move away from fox is great.


-nate

I just finished my attic installation of an Antennacraft CCS1233 (whopping 10' anenna!). After running quad shield down to my MyHD card I find I have the following reception status.

My location is in south Chelmsford.
Antenna direction set to 160degrees as per Titan TV reccomendation.

Channel Signal
42 NBC Super strong and steady
43 WGBX PBS Super strong and steady
30 CBS Moderate strong with occasional dropouts
19 WGBX PBS Weak but occasionally locks
20 ABC MyHD locks to something (stereo) but doesn't come in
31 FOX MyHD locks to something (stereo) but doesn't come in

Does it sound like multipath? Haven't tried rotation of antenna, but not much room to work in attic. Preamplifier?

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.
Jim

PS I _need_ ABC in time for the Alias premiere ;-)

Jim,

Sounds like multipath, and you do need to rotate your antenna to get all those channels.

Even being able to rotate over 30 degrees might be enough.
Or you could find if you are really lucky a point that works for all, but don't count on it staying that way after a rain storm.

jimheck - Yeah, attic installations can be a very finicky animal. I'm located in west Andover on the downslope of the Merrimack Valley (facing NH), so about the same distance from the towers as you, and have experienced similar issues. I've suspected multipath for some time but think I may have finally got it whipped. In this predicament, too much antenna can actually be detrimental to your cause, and with what sounds like a large-gain antenna at only 20 or so miles out, I think this may be contributing substantially to your problem. Also, roof construction materials and environment can also make things bad (i.e. lots of metal - I have two zones of HVAC ducting in there!) Nominally you can probably expect to lose around 30% of your received signal strength through an asphalt roof, probably more if there's a high metal content or you have aluminum siding. I found I could receive most channels using a simple RS double-bowtie on top of the set before I went ahead with my attic install, so that indicated to me that signal strength probably wasn't an issue for me. Since the goal was always an attic install with a rotator I figured I'd be good to go with a relatively generic setup. But, alas as with all things HDTV, it ain't ever as simple as you think its gonna be....

I'm currently using a CM3021 4 bay bowtie on a CM9521 rotator with a winegard medium-gain preamp. I generally receive most stations well, with the exception of FOX (but who cares, its only 480p anyway! ;) ). In an effort to boost my FOX reception I added the preamp but found while it didn't make things any worse, it didn't make them any better either, so I left it on just in case - completely frustrating! I did manage to get the Superbowl without difficulty thanks to the snow cover which seems to help out with that station during the winter months. Being a huge Alias fan myself, I was very alarmed to discover recently that at some point during the summer I also lost ABC on ch 20!! To make a really long story short (just ask my wife!) I found that even minor variations in position and height within my attic produced different results. I also found this same thing to be true in my prior residence in Franklin, MA when I was using a RS combo UHF/VHF atenna mounted up in the rafters without a rotator. Over here I'd get all except 4-1, move a little bit over there now I can't get 7-1/2, stuff like that. Oddly enough, thinking that height was my problem I boosted the antenna to the absolute peak of the roof and guess what? That's right, nothing!! So, all this seemed to add up to an indication that indeed multipath was causing my problems and the better visibility I gave the antenna, the worse it got, although that's just a completely unscientific theory at this point. Based on these results and other experiences while moving the whole rig around the attic, I decided to LOWER the antenna and see what happened. Well, I've only got one days worth of viewing on it, but I'm now receiving all Boston DTV stations seemingly flawlessly. I seem to have adversely affected the reception of WENH out of Durham, but I can still get it tuned in relatively good with some careful tweaking of the rotator, so this seems like a good compromise I've reached for the time being (there's only so many times you can watch the demo loop, you know!?) Who knows, maybe I'll try and remove the preamp in a week or so and see if it makes things any better. Like many others wanting to receive a solid OTA signal, I think we sometimes overcompensate by using huge antennas and pre-amps when their really not warranted and just end up creating a whole different set of problems for ourselves...

Anyway, sorry to ramble on, just hoping that relating my experience might offer you some insight or give you some ideas of things to try. Also, make sure to search through the archives here, there's tons of useful info to research. Unfortunately, everyone's situation is unique so ultimately, many times its just a matter of trial and error to figure out what works for you.

Good Luck!

p.s. Too bad there's no MNF in HD any more, can you imagine tonight's game in HD, that would have been killer!!!! GO PATS!!!!

Doug and Jim,

I just remembered I know of a guy in Chelmsford who gets all area stations including 57 no problem, but he has a rotor and outdoor antenna. In fact he bought one of my experimental rejects: a double length 4248 Channel Master.

I agree if you have enough signal for the channels you want a big antenna may not be needed but keep in mind that multipath is best filtered out with a very long antenna to get best directionality.

As to antenna height, I thought for a while I might need to add a motor to raise and lower my antennas, since the height must be varied with the depth of snow in the winter, if you try to peak things that way. I have found however that a simple tilter works fine, and with just a few degrees of change I can bring in or null out a channel that is over 40 miles away. The best setting varies with the atmosphere and ground cover, so a remote control is a must for this.

Both tilting and raising or lowering the antenna effect the phase of the ground bounce signal, which can easily make or break the reception on current tuners where you have other multipath to handle too. And the long yagis help with side to side multipath.

And as Doug says, everything is critical: Be prepared to set things to 2 degrees of accuracy if necessary. This requires frequent resyncs or hand tweaking if you have a rotor like Channel Masters.

I use a Pansat control with dish mover to handle my antenna tilting. See Glenn's Mt Wilson thread and web site if you want a packaged system.

I was wondering which towers in Needham broadcast which stations? I live about half a mile away from them, and am always curious which is which whenever I look out the window.

If I spot some guys up one of the towers doing some installs, I guess that would be the WBZ / WSBK tower :)

Bobhess,

just a quick question, what will be the definition of the WSBK station when it goes live, 1080i?

Thanks,

Jim

Originally posted by GrantR
I was wondering which towers in Needham broadcast which stations? I live about half a mile away from them, and am always curious which is which whenever I look out the window.

If I spot some guys up one of the towers doing some installs, I guess that would be the WBZ / WSBK tower :)

There is not any tower work associated with the WSBK project. So....no tower guys doing work on the tower!

- Bob

Originally posted by vfrjim
Bobhess,

just a quick question, what will be the definition of the WSBK station when it goes live, 1080i?

Thanks,

Jim

1080I

Still no on-air date I can tell you. An incorrect component was shipped with the antenna combiner port. A new component needs to be fabricated. Should not be too long a delay.

- Bob

1080i rocks! at least it is in the home stretch :)

thanks!

Jim

jhe and doug,

Thanks for the responses. I spent a good part of sunday trying to "map the attic". I ended up moving the antenna so I can rotate it fairly freely and I got my exercise moving the antenna in 5degree increments and running back down stairs to check the results (I even mapped the best regions down to 2degrees). With a little voodoo I have a position that currently allows me to pull in everything except 57 (NH PBS) and 31 (FOX). I actually caught glimpses of FOX way over at 150 degrees, but the sweet spot for me ended up being 170 degrees. I did also raise the antenna a bit. Now my only problem is that I'm afraid to move the antenna back so it doesn't take up half the attic (no honey, you don't need to go up there for anything, just let me get it....).

The biggest problem I had was balancing 30 and 20, which refused to cooperate with each other. Both are still the weakest links (minus FOX), with occasional dropouts.

I have a standard Radio Shack distribution amplifier (1-12db gain + FM trap) for four sets I plan to give a whirl with as a pre-amp (is there a difference between distribution amp and pre-amp?), though if it's multipath, I just may make my life worse. I think the long antenna is working to my favor, but it will require some tweaking and perhaps a rotator.

Are stations like FOX still not at full power? What about 20 ABC and 30 CBS? 42 NBC and 43 PBS seem strong as heck by comparison. I can pick them up for a full 50degree arc.

Ah, well, that's why they call it a hobby, errr obsession.

jimheck - Sounds like your on the right path. A rotator will definitely be advantageous for tweaking, as I'm sure you'll agree by now!

Yes, pre-amp and distribution amp are different. Pre-amp is a very low-noise device intented to effectively amplify antenna gain (increase SNR) for weak or distant signals while a distribution amp is meant only to boost overall signal to compensate for multiple devices or long cable runs without much regard for improving SNR. Make sure to check antennaweb.org for signal vectors and there's also a free topo map site where you can see if there are any large hills in your line of sight (like there are for me.) Many people including myself also find, as you did, that the best reception occurs when your not necessarily pointed directly at the tower, but at some slight offset from the "ideal" direction. I believe this mostly has to do with creating an artificial null for a multipath signal which is plaguing your reception.

As for signal strengths, AFAIK FOX is still transmitting at around 78kW or something, whereas all the other stations are mainly transmitting at around 600-1000kW ERP. (In actuality, this really isn't that low if you consider that signal strength falls of logarithmically wrt distance. So transmitting at 1000kW ERP as opposed to 78kW ERP might only get a station a few more miles of coverage, its a diminishing returns kind of thing you know.) Based on your experience with ch.'s 20 and 30, it would seem to indicate you still have multipath issues. At this point you may need to try a different antenna or two, keeping in mind that both horizontal and vertical placements in your attic will produce different results; you just have to kinda "feel" it out. One nice thing about my CM3021 is that while its multipath rejection isn't as good as a yagi, its compact size makes for versatile placement and rotation while its medium gain doesn't overpower my receiver. One thing you may want to try just for kicks and giggles is to go to RatShack and see if you can find a double-bowtie UHF to just place on top of your set (but this may be difficult as they've been discontinued) and you can always return it when your done. I know Bob Hess uses one of these very successfully from Hopkington which is probably about the same distance from the towers as Chelmsford.

But, if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try, try again. I swear, its like some kind of cruel initiation into HDTV or something.....ugh! We all have to go through it.

Keep us posted and good luck!

JimHeck,

I have been reading the posts. From your location, it might be worth trying a Channel Master 4228, 8-bay bowtie, antenna. This is the big brother to the 3021 4-bay bowtie mentioned in another post. The 4228 has a lot of gain but also has a fairly broad beamwidth which may help in your situation. Many of our viewers have solved their problem with the 4228 or 3021. With DTV, sometimes a high gain and very directional antenna with a preamp is not necessarily a good thing, especially if you are within 30 miles or so of the towers in Needham. Without seeing your location, however, I cannot guarantee that the 4228 will do it for you. You can purchase the Channel Master antennas from Stark Electronics in Worcester. www.starkelectronic.com.

Multipath, or ghosts in the analog world, can spell death to a DTV signal. An attic mount antenna must put up with metal duct work in the attic, wet roofs, snow on the roof, metallic roofing materials, etc. Unfortunately, it is best to go with an outdoor antenna. A 3021 would probably do a good job for you on the roof but I would go with the higher gain 4228 in the attic. The 3021 is about the size of a small satellite dish.....not the huge antenna you might expect.

Bob Hess
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV

ouch - that possibility of snow on roof causing problems
for attic antennas could be nasty for me this winter!
the relevant portion of roof at my house is much too high for me to get at with a snow-rake... so in addition
to worrying about ice dams i'm going to be worrying about
watching NYPD Blue in HD during winter! time will tell...

Hi All,

I was looking at the Stark Electronics link and I was wondering if anyone had a recommendation for a similar store in the North Boston Area. They don't need an online presence, just a good inventory, prices and knowledge. I work in Medford and I live in North Andover. So, anything in the Boston to Salem NH corridor would be more convenient for me.

I need to buy a good 5x8 multiswitch, sat-c kit, signal finder, diplexers, etc. I guess I could go to Worcester if that place is the best, but I seldom make it to that part of the greater Boston area.

Regards,
Hal

Try You-Do-It Electronics.

Highland Avenue at 128, right between all of the TV towers.

- Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Try You-Do-It Electronics.

Highland Avenue at 128, right between all of the TV towers.

- Bob

They seem to have a website. http://www.ydielectronics.com/TOCFrame.htm

Thanks Bob,

That certainly is closer and that would work on a weekend. However, it would be a pain to get to Needham from Medford and then back up to North Andover on a workday. Does anybody know of a place that is closer to I-93 north of Boston? I'm kind of a wuss with regards to getting on 90.:D

Regards,
Hal

Sorry about the off topic discussion, but this weekend I would finally like to take care of the coax mess in my house and get the SAT-C kit. I can't believe I waited so long to do this. If anyone is interested in what I am trying to improve, see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=136502).

Highland Avenue at 128, right between all of the TV towers.


Between the towers is right... The RF remote to my previous car's alarm system would never work when I visited you-blew-it.

Dave

Not a definitive date, but I was able to get at least a general timeframe for the WB from a station engineer.

"We are continuing to build our DTV facility and expect to be broadcasting in
mid to late October. I will be happy to send you an email as soon as a
formal date is set. Thank you for your interest in our HD plans."

I'll post any further info I can get as it comes in.....

fwiw, my sony 34xbr2 is continuing to do the mapping
for channel 5. (it shows up as 5.1 for me.)

in other news,
that wind yesterday really made for some awful multipath
due apparently to trees/leaves blowing in the line
of sight for my indoor-attic antenna, channelmaster 4248.

If ya like electronics gadgetry and misc. parts, You Do It is worth a looksee if you've never been there. I know of no place decent on the 93 strip (I live off exit 5 on 93 in NH). You could be from Medford to you Do It in less than 1/2 hour. Plus you get to see what things were like in 1974 when you walk in the door and see the orange walls and plastic plants :) (or did they change that?)
-Trouble

Hello all!
1st time post-er here. Thought I'd say hello. Just picked up my CM 4228 from Stark this morning. My Samsung T-151 OTA recv'r should be here from J&R tomorrow ($349). I'll be watching all this on my Mistu 46" Widescreen. Was excited to see the contractor from Charter Cable on my street today. I stopped and asked him if was doing the upgrades for digital cable. He said, "yes". I was happy! We still have analog cable here in this section of Worcester. They said we were the last node to get converted...those b*stards! So, hopefully we'll have digital cable soon, as well. Is anyone here in the forums from the Worcester area? I'd be interested to hear your signal strengths so I know what to expect.
I'm an RF Performance Engineer with Cingular Wireless (I'm the "Can you hear me now?" guy). Bob Hess--- I'm SURE you know Jack Tibbetts. In fact, I think he and I talked to you awhile back about the HD signals out here in Worcester. Looking back through some of the old posts, I'm glad you're in this forum.

Regards,
-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Hello all!
1st time post-er here. Thought I'd say hello. Just picked up my CM 4228 from Stark this morning. My Samsung T-151 OTA recv'r should be here from J&R tomorrow ($349). I'll be watching all this on my Mistu 46" Widescreen. Was excited to see the contractor from Charter Cable on my street today. I stopped and asked him if was doing the upgrades for digital cable. He said, "yes". I was happy! We still have analog cable here in this section of Worcester. They said we were the last node to get converted...those b*stards! So, hopefully we'll have digital cable soon, as well. Is anyone here in the forums from the Worcester area? I'd be interested to hear your signal strengths so I know what to expect.
I'm an RF Performance Engineer with Cingular Wireless (I'm the "Can you hear me now?" guy). Bob Hess--- I'm SURE you know Jack Tibbetts. In fact, I think he and I talked to you awhile back about the HD signals out here in Worcester. Looking back through some of the old posts, I'm glad you're in this forum.

Regards,
-JR

Don't be too excited about the digital cable services. My house has been digital cable ready but neither RCN nor AT&T passess through HD programing.

I don't plan on seeing HD on cable here for AT LEAST 7-10 years. I'm just happy to get all my Discovery channels and a slightly better picture over analog cable.

-JR

hey there JR - did you ever live in lincoln MA?
anyway, be forewarned that "digital cable" has
nothing to do with DTV.

while i am not so pessimistic to think that it will
be 7-10 years for my crappy cable company (adelphia)
to provide the local affiliates' feed in [H]DTV, i'm
hopeful they will have it by 2006...

fwiw, they promised the US congress that half of their
customers would be able to receive HDTV by jan 1 2003.
what a crock of shyte that is! :(

Originally posted by johnrobinson

I'm an RF Performance Engineer with Cingular Wireless (I'm the "Can you hear me now?" guy). Bob Hess--- I'm SURE you know Jack Tibbetts. In fact, I think he and I talked to you awhile back about the HD signals out here in Worcester. Looking back through some of the old posts, I'm glad you're in this forum.

Regards,
-JR
Jr,

I do know Jack. Good guy. Please tell him I said hi. Have not talked with him for awhile.

By the way, you probably know this but Charter's digital cable does not include the over-the-air DTV channels.

Bob

I watch all my HD now via OTA, but plan on jumping to cable as soon as it offers comparable content. My fiancee would love HBO HD, and I would appriciate Discovery HD, two channels we're not going to ever see OTA.

Anyone here have any good "inside track" info on the timeframe, specifically for AT&T Broadband? AT&T is doing HD in Chicago, and is just starting to advertise it in their Seattle market - with boxes available within 2 weeks. I know AT&T lags behind many of the other cable companies due to an initial resistance to HD. While other companies were moving full speed ahead with HD, AT&T was downright hostile - taking the position that HD took up too much bandwidth and that carrying it would harm the majority of their non-HD customers. It was an interesting (although frustrating) argument - that they were actually more responsive to their customers by standing firm against HD. Since the Comcast merger announcement, they re-thought that strategy and formally changed their policy in April of this year to move ahead with HD... but were still left months behind many other cable companies. The Seattle AT&T people were gearing up for HD right away, thinking they would be the first test market. Instead, the higher-ups chose Chicago as the first market, in which they would work out technical problems. Apparently, the Chicago kinks have been worked out to the point where Seattle, which has been poised to go HD for some time, becomes the first expansion market. Several small cable companies serving no more than 20,000 people already have HD. With size comes sloth, I suppose.

From a contact at AT&T locally, I understand that all the carriage agreements for the Boston market are being negotiated at the national level. AT&T in Boston has been doing some preliminary work, but is bottlenecked while waiting on word from national. I live across the street from the State House and we do not yet have digital cable either. I have heard from multiple knowledgable sources that we will be upgraded to digital cable by the end of November. I'm hoping that by then, or shortly thereafter, local will have the okay to move ahead with HD.

I know there are a lot of very well-informed people on this board. Does anyone's understanding differ from mine? Is it optimistic to expect a (at least limited) rollout of HD cable in Boston within 3 to 9 months? OTA is great, but I've always believed cable will really drive the HD transition. Thanks.

Joe

Guys,
I know full well that HD and digital cable are not the same. I just wish everybody involved in the transition to HD (both OTA and Cable) would get things rolling. I know it's a long and expensive rollout but it has to happen sooner or later. Speaking with a local Charter tech (not contractor or cst svc), he said that they upgrade equipment every 10 years or so. 3 years ago they upgraded the head ends for digital cable and cable internet. He said the current head ends won't support HD. It's taken 3 years just to get the oustide-plant work to my part of town. Don't the cable companies understand that they could SPANK the local phone companies when it comes to internet access? Keep cable modem speeds comparable and the price $5-10 less than xDSL and they'll own the market!
Let's all just imagine a day when there are 100+ HD channels on cable!! And for Bob's sake, they pay the local stations a large amount of money for the feeds! :-)

-JR

Tveli,
I've never lived in Lincoln. Could be cousin of mine (same name)

-JR

Originally posted by jsirbak
Is it optimistic to expect a (at least limited) rollout of HD cable in Boston within 3 to 9 months?

Joe

3-9 months? In my dreams! I'd say that is extremely optimistic.

- Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess


3-9 months? In my dreams! I'd say that is extremely optimistic.

- Bob

Can you elaborate? I posted my thoughts and research to solicit feedback. Specifically for Bob, is it accurate that AT&T is working out carriage agreements at the national level, rather than the local AT&T dealing directly with WBZ? What do you think is a more realistic timeframe? And on what basis?

Joe

Originally posted by jsirbak


Can you elaborate? I posted my thoughts and research to solicit feedback. Specifically for Bob, is it accurate that AT&T is working out carriage agreements at the national level, rather than the local AT&T dealing directly with WBZ? What do you think is a more realistic timeframe? And on what basis?

Joe
Joe, this is a very complicated subject. Not a simple question. At this time, I cannot elaborate other than to say that the FCC is looking into "must-carry" for DTV.

Bob

Here is RI, our local cable company plans on HD starting in January, but since RI has no OTA HD, they are planning national feeds, Like I care, HD from Boston and surrounding areas is great for me :)

Shrewsbury must be the only town in the Commonwealth that's testing HD cable and will be launching town-wide in about a month. They offer HD 4, 5, 7, HBO, Showtime, and before launch plan to add HD Discovery. They dropped HD GBH since they were told they wouldn't be broadcasting any true HDTV in the near future.

I guess it pays to be in a town that owns and operates its own cable company. Hopefully other (larger) cable companies in the area will catch up and catch on.

-D

A friend of mine just recieved his Pioneer Elite 53" this morning. He lives in Shrewsbury... That b*astard is gonna have HD cable!!! Arrrghh... Guess I'll be watching The Soprano's at his house...

-JR

Originally posted by tveli
fwiw, they promised the US congress that half of their
customers would be able to receive HDTV by jan 1 2003.
what a crock of shyte that is! :(

There's a letter from NCTA re: DTV carriage in the following link. Note the qualifications: 25K+ sub clusters, 750Mhz+ systems, and five HDTV or other "value added DTV programming."
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/industryletters.pdf

Caveat - the cable companies have serious balance sheet issues, and if your system isn't upgraded, you may need to wait a little while. In addition, I would guess that the lack of access to capital will hurt any wide-scale deployment of HDTV-ready STBs, given the upfront cash requirements. ATTBI has some of the most awful plant in the country (especially if you're an old TCI customer), and their pending merger with Comcast means that they've got a lot of issues to regulatory issues to deal with in the meantime. Lucky for many of us in the Boston area that our ATTBI systems were originally Media One/Continental Cablevision, with condolences to those who were Cablevision subs... :)

I read the document....makes everything sound peachy and rosy, huh?? They all pretend that they are lining up all kinds of programming for their DTV transmitters. Even the cable companies make it sound like we'll all have HD cable next year. Fat chance!!!
-JR

Sorry to break the flow you guys have going today.....but I wanted to xpost something here since it has to do with WENH in NH.

Has anyone ever had digital audio dropouts while viewing PBS programming on WENH? Thinking it might be the infamous Onkyo/Integra incompatibility with the now defunct new Dolby codec? I've started a topic over in HDTV HW:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=170379

Well, now that my CM 4228 is sitting in my garage and my Samsung T-151 HDTV OTA STB is sitting on my desk here at work, I can't wait to get home and install everything!! A quick question that may help in aiming my antenna.... Do the DTV stations in Boston simulcast everything that is on the analog side? Meaning, can I watch WBZ-DT, WCVB-DT, or WHDH, DT all day, albeit with up-converted programming? If so, I'm assuming that even the up-converted picture is better than digital cable??
Thanks,

-JR

I just got the following e-mail from WGBH


Dear WGBH DT19 & 43 Viewer,

Thank you for your comments, questions and continued interest during the testing of WGBH DT19 and 43. We hope t
hat you have enjoyed the programming during this testing phase.

We have concluded the initial engineering tests for DT43, and will be suspending broadcasts on this channel effe
ctive 12:00 PM on September
13, 2002. We have not yet scheduled the next set of tests for this
station. We will continue our test-broadcasting on DT19, but these broadcasts will be at 30% power.

Although we know that this information may be disappointing, we appreciate your understanding as we continue to
prepare for the future of WGBH digital broadcasting.

Thank you again for your support. We assure you that we will send
Additional updates as new information about these stations become
available.

Sincerely,
WGBH Audience & Member Services

Meaning, can I watch WBZ-DT, WCVB-DT, or WHDH, DT all day, albeit with up-converted programming?


yes john all the programming from these stations are the same. I dont watch the analog signal at all anymore. Have fun with the new samsung

-nate

I got the same reply from GBH today. I'm not sure if I will be able to pull them in any more if they are going to 30% power. Does anyone know if they had been broadcasting at full power? Also, Does this mean thatt he channel mapping horrors with my Samsung box should clear up? (I haven't been receiving GBH since June)

Is everything upconverted to 1080i? I only ask because the Sammy has a manual switch on the back for scan rate.

-JR

Is everything upconverted to 1080i? I only ask because the Sammy has a manual switch on the back for scan rate.
i dont know about 1080i on all stations but its at least that on wbz, and channel 7. Channel 5 i am not sure since abc does alot of their hd programming in 720p. I have a reciever where it takes 720p and upconverts to 1080i. I have never tried native resolution on the abc station.

-nate

Originally posted by SUTTONHT
I got the same reply from GBH today. I'm not sure if I will be able to pull them in any more if they are going to 30% power. Does anyone know if they had been broadcasting at full power? Also, Does this mean thatt he channel mapping horrors with my Samsung box should clear up? (I haven't been receiving GBH since June)

I don't care because I don't watch WGBH until they pass through PBS' HD programing.

Ditto,
I don't watch WGBH because their HD broadcasts are poor quality. They compress due to simulcasting. A shame, all other PBS stations that send uncompressed HD looks absolutely fabulous. WGBH has marked artifacts. Truly uninspired management there.
Spearse

What gets me is the WGBH feedback response message:

We hope that you have enjoyed the programming during this testing phase.

Huh? Yeah, I suppose I enjoyed not being able to watch any PBS on my Samsung since mid-june due to a PSIP issue that they created! Talking about "uninspired management" indeed!

mike

My D* looks better then WGBH, I didn't think HD could look any worse...

Unfortunately, I received the same form letter from WGBH. I specifically asked them about my inability to receive the OTA broadcast with the Samsung SIR T-151, and they respond by saying they hope I have enjoyed the programming!

While WGBH is not broadcasting HD content right now, I still think it's in our interest to resolve the Samsung issue.

vfrjim, what does "D* looks better than WGBH" mean?
(what is D*?)
clueless in NH,

Direct TV :)

I NEVER saw WGBH look even presentable on any occasion on channel 19, IMO, just as bad as overly compressed Direct TV.

Jim

Well with 43 gone and 19 at 30% power (not enough to capture), I'm left without any PBS stations (can't seem to pull in 57, since it's in the exact opposite direction to everything else for me).

Looks like I'll be trying a channel master 4228. I may end up with a collection of antennas. Does anyone out there use multiple antennas with a switch to pull in various disparate stations? (Though my wife will kill me if I poke too many more holes in the house to run coax).

Thanks all for the replies to my antenna questions.

jimheck, do what I did, If you have a ridge vent cut into your roof, chase your wires down there, worked for me :) Don't know where you live but channel 19 comes in for me at 60 miles with the 4228 at 80+ signal strength on both my Tuners(DTC-100 and HiPix Tuner Card).

Jim

Originally posted by jimheck
Does anyone out there use multiple antennas with a switch to pull in various disparate stations? (Though my wife will kill me if I poke too many more holes in the house to run coax).

Howdy,

I'm actually pretty lucky with my location and how I can arrange my antennas:

My main antenna is a big old RS 8' UHF/VHF monster pointing south in my attic (previous owners left it, don't know the model number, will check next time I'm up there), which does a good job on 2,4,5,25 without a rotor (having issues with 7 right now, but not too worried yet).

I also have a RS double bow tie pointing NE in my attic (uses the direct-transformer hardware hack) that gets 57 quite well.

I'm currently joining them with a splitter in reverse, before they go into an old RS 4port distribution amp. I've been considering getting the jointenna and a newer dist amp, but haven't gotten around to it... :)

I believe some of my luck comes from the orientation of my house -- the gable ends of my roof face directly north and south, so I don't need to worry about my asphalt shingles interfering, just my (wood) siding. We'll need to replace the siding in the next few years, and we're definitely not using aluminum! :p

--Steve

hey there coffee breath - have you considered a better quality distribution amp?

i thought wgbh hd looked fine on many occasions such
as when the camera panned slowly enough. :|
do you folks think than channel 7.1 when in hd does not look great enough because of the bandwidth taken for the sd 7.2? is wgbh allocation bandwidth differently such that less is/was available with their 2.1/HD with 2.2 SD?

i can't pick up wgbh at all now at their 30% power - maybe re-aiming antenna would take care of that but i'll just wait for 'more power, scotty' for a while.

Try a Blake antenna. Works significantly better the my 4228 in Kensington, NH. Two of them ganged allows me to pick up everything out of Boston and Portland,Me. with a rotor. Bill

Originally posted by jimheck
Does anyone out there use multiple antennas with a switch to pull in various disparate stations?

Multiple antennas, yes; with a switch, no.

I am in Nashua, NH and have one on the roof pointed SE, and one in the attic pointed N/NE. Both have amps at the antenna. They feed their signals down to the basement where they are combined and fed to a Sony HD-100 tuner. I think the amps help make sure the signal doesn't trail off too much due to the combiner.

-- Doug

Any news on WLVI-DT? WB keeps saying they have DT in Boston in it's list of cities.

Tim

coffeebreath, I too have gables facing almost directly north and south. I figure this to be good in winter when hopefully, snow loading on the roof won't interfere <here's hoping :D >.

One thing that is worrying me is that my house was painted with lead paint some time in the distant past. I'm wondering if that is cutting down my signal strength? Anyone know if this can be a significant factor?

I'm torn for my next step between
1. rotator
2. pre-amp
3. 4248 antenna to augment the CCS1223 I already have installed.

Having mapped the 1223's current signal pickup, 1) will only buy me a little unless I go whole hog and move the sucker outside on the chimney. 2) might help a lot if it is signal attenuation I'm currently suffering from (lead paint) and not multipath (I'm suspicious). 3) could help a lot, but then I have two antennas to juggle and things are already crowded up there, plus I hate discarding a $50 antenna I just bought (but sacrafices to the HDTV gods must be made... ;-)

-jimheck

I had multipath problems when I had my 4228 in my attic, especially on channel 7.1(42), it went away when I installed it on my chimney. Chimney kit is only $15 at rat shack, can't hurt.

Jim

I was wondering why some stations are transmitting 2 channel audio while other are running DD 2.1 (Front and mono surround)? Bob Hess, maybe you can chime in on this one?

Thanks!

-JR

Regarding the Samsung tuners and WGBH-DT: It is pretty obvious from other threads here that the problem is with the Samsung tuner, and my understanding is that they are working on the problem. This is a nationwide problem. (See the Oregon and Indianapolis threads.)

The only problem with WGBH-DT (besides the lack of HDTV) is that they are using many more features than the other area stations and this confuses the tuner. Descriptive video is one likely culprit, as well as any Nielsen data transmissions, and PSIP program info. Also they have multiple audio tracks (which breaks my Panasonic tuner.)

jhe-

I seem to recall that you sent your Samsung back for repairs. Did they do anything or did it simply come back untouched? It seems like the Samsung problems are not restricted only to the 150 owners, but the 151's as well. Perhaps us Samsung owners would be better off trying to get the MFR to release a firmware update that would solve this?

mike



BTW- Even though 43-1 doesn't appear to be broadcasting anymore, I still can't receive 19-1. Anybody else with the same problem?

Well, here in Weymouth, I do manage to still pick up both the digital (NON-HDTV) versions of 2 and 44 ... 43-1 maps to 2-1 and 19-1 maps to 2-2 on my panny tu-hds20 ... still waiting for 'gbh to pick up the HDTV ball sometime this decade ...

Originally posted by mml7
jhe-

I seem to recall that you sent your Samsung back for repairs. Did they do anything or did it simply come back untouched? It seems like the Samsung problems are not restricted only to the 150 owners, but the 151's as well. Perhaps us Samsung owners would be better off trying to get the MFR to release a firmware update that would solve this?

mike



BTW- Even though 43-1 doesn't appear to be broadcasting anymore, I still can't receive 19-1. Anybody else with the same problem?

You're right. I have sent back my Samsung for repair of this as well as some "stuck pixel" glitches and code crashes, I get periodically. It came back untouched as far as I can tell.

Also with the Panasonic, they claimed to resolder some things but nothing in the code was fixed.

I have called both back, and sent the Panasonic back 3 times, but no luck. The customer service centers are not equipped at either company to deal with code issues (unlike my experience with RCA when I had a DTC-100), and the helpful reps just say to keep sending the units back for any problem you mention, whether they have a fix for it or not.

I finally asked to speak to a manager at each company, and informed each of them they have a major problem, and they each said they would get their engineering depts to look into the problems and get back to me. Samsung said not to expect any quick answer!

Right now I am hoping Samsung has the problem in their 165 and that that explains it's delay, so if that gets fixed maybe they will be able to quickly backport the fixes to our older units. I would even like a trade up plan, case they can't fix the old ones! For now I just wait, and watch analog 2 and 44, and HDTV on 57 when I can get it, which is most nights, and some daytime.

And I also, still can not get channel 19, on the Samsung, even though 43 is gone. I expect it might work if they switched back to HDTV mode for something, but I guess they aren't planning to do this, so I just have to swap tuners in and out, depending which channel I want to watch.

My old Panasonic model 50 tuner with original code rev does work on 19, but I keep the Samsung plugged in mostly, since I need it's extra sensitivity and multipath rejection to get WENH-DT.

I'm just lucky WB is late around here. I had planned to toss out my old analog Sony tuner once that and WSBK-DT got on the air, but with all these PBS problems, I guess I will have to save my analog tuner a bit past everyone getting on the air.

Originally posted by mml7
jhe-

BTW- Even though 43-1 doesn't appear to be broadcasting anymore, I still can't receive 19-1. Anybody else with the same problem?

Yes, I have the same problem. I thought this might be a Samsung problem, too, although I believe that I knew of a Samsung owner in Boston who was able to receive WGBH-DT for a month or so. Please post if you have any updates. Thanks.

Originally posted by haninger


Yes, I have the same problem. I thought this might be a Samsung problem, too, although I believe that I knew of a Samsung owner in Boston who was able to receive WGBH-DT for a month or so. Please post if you have any updates. Thanks.

Note that WGBH-DT was working fine with Samsung tuners up till channel 43 came on and they started doing 2 low def channels instead of the PBS HDTV feed.

Also note: WGBH-DT continued to work with 43 on the air and the dual channel low def setup, till I made the mistake of doing a new channel scan.

Just occurred to me: Any Samsung tuner owners out toward Springfield's WGBY-DT. I would assume they might have the same kind of encoder.

So if that station works maybe they could show Boston how to work around the Samsung problem.

Or is it working there because they are doing PBS HDTV?

AVS Forum Members

I just can't help myself, I need to vent somewhere.

When I was up in Rochester NY (my hometown) a few weeks' back, and I noticed they were carrying what I took to be the national PBS feed of "Visions of Italy". Intrigued (as WGBH had stopped broadcasting any hi definition) I popped onto the WXXI website. There for all to see was the real plans for DTV that WXXI was implementing. Namely, a multicast of SD channels during the day (apparently to relieve those who need three cooking shows simultaneously), with HD at night. Has WGBH the same notions? Will they come clean with us? Think of it, up to NINE SD channels whence there was only 2 and 44! Nine simultaneous fund raising events! Hey, maybe like the Dish 500 network, they have delusions of being the GBH 9! It's a start of an empire! All they have to do is keep these pain in the neck HD people off of their back.

My donations will continue elsewhere, anywhere but GBH. GBH will only see my e-mails until this PUBLICALLY supported television station steps up to the plate.

I read somewhere about GBH's plans for multicasting. I don't remember where, so you can chock it up to the rumor mill if you want, but as I remember....The plan was to multicast educational shows during the day, classromm type of stuff, and do HDTV at night. This seems logical, and almost acceptable to me, I'm never home during the day anyway, and I think the children can live with an SD version of Sesame Street.

I also have the Samsung, and since 43 stopped broadcasting, I have the same problem as before, the box shows a strong signal, but will not lock onto a picture...I'll try emailing them yet again.

Well, the HDTV Gods were not looking favorably upon my TV last night. I was all excited to watch my 1st night of CBS Primtime HD since I installed everything last Friday. But nooooo! I'm assuming the rain storms and moisture density of the atmosphere conspired to block WBZ-DT all night. This is the 1st time I've had an issue with 'BZ-DT's signal. The other night it was WCVB-DT's signal that kept dropping out. I guess I'm gonna have to get a pre-amp... Should I got with the ChannelMaster amp?

Does WHDH-DT do their news broadcasts in HD?? Their news looks awesome and much better than the other network's news broadcasts.

-JR

hi johnrobinson... at my place in southern NH i was seeing more than the usual # of dropouts & reception problems yesterday & over the past few days with the wet weather,
even with my winegard AP4800 preamp. in my case i believe the problem is nearby tall trees with wet leaves and wind blowing - causing more multipath than usual.

in my case these problems usually happen on 5.1 & 25.1 much
more than 4.1 & 7.1/7.2 - last night was no exception.
and 2.1/2.2 were subject to massive dropouts/breakup too - presumably due to their cut in signal power to 30% .

4.1,5.1,7.1 convert all their ntsc material to HD before xmitting over their DTV transmitters. WHDH news is not sourced in HD, but appears slightly wider than 4:3 on channel 7.1 due to them converting the side overscan areas into viewable picture within the 16:9 frame. i find the
ntsc->1080i/ntsc->720p material to be very tolerable.
and for football, the converted overscan area lets us view an extra few yards of the football field...

Jag looked great tonight in HDTV. Loved the 5.1 Dolby on ABC's Push, Nevada. Why are some networks only DD 2.0, some 2.1, and others are 5.1?
-JR

Does anyone have a contact for WHDH-DT? I'd like them to turn the overscan lines back on. They've been missing since last night.

-JR

Does anyone know what GBH is planning near term? Right now they are broadcasting 2-1 and 2-2 at 30% of full power. Is this going to continue indefinitely? Is May of 2003 still their deadline for full power transmission?
Also, are they currently simulcasting 2-1 and 2-2 or do these come from different frequencies?

Am getting all Boston stations very well in Seacoast NH except 25. Are they not at full power yet? Bill

I have sent them yet another couple of emails, mainly about the Samsung problem, they responded very quickly and said that now that channel 43 had ceased I should try again, I responded that I have tried since 43 ceased, and with similar results....plenty of signal on the meter, but no picture on the screen. They have not responded yet though after 4 days. I also politely invited their engineering staff to consider visiting this forum to both provide info and gather info / solicit feedback. It will be interesting to see if they decide to check out AVS.

Bob Hess...any update on the antenna combiner for UPN38?

-JR

Hi All

What is the latest on the WB and UPN DTV transmitters. Will it help if they receive a lot of mail encouraging them.
Henry Gale

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Bob Hess...any update on the antenna combiner for UPN38?

-JR
JR,

The antenna combiner is installed. The manufacturer shipped an incorrect connector which connects the transmission line from the combiner to the transmitter. We await this custom built connector to complete our project. Everything else is in place to put WSBK's (UPN38) digital signal on the air. As of today, the manufacturer is looking at the end of September for shipment. As always, I will keep the board updated when I have new information.

Nothing is easy.....

By the way, WBZ and WSBK are Dolby 5.1 ready. CBS, however, does not offer 5.1 at this time.

Henry,

Anyone who has been on this board for awhile knows that I have been on the board since the early days of WBZ's HD signal. I post here often. You are, in a sense, communicating with the "horse's mouth"!!!! No need for letters as far as WBZ and WSBK are concerned.

As far as WLVI is concerned, they are doing all they can under extremely difficult circumstances to get their digital transmitter on the air.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations and Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV

Originally posted by Bob Hess

The manufacturer shipped an incorrect connector which connects the transmission line from the combiner to the transmitter.

Bob,
I have a connector kit here on the desk...whaddya need? BNC? SMA? :D

Seriously, I thank you for post and your presence here in the forums.
re: DD5.1. What is the reason that you're not sending the 5.1 signal? ETA on 5.1?
Also, can you call your counterpart at Ch7 and have them turn the overscan bars/lines back on??? :)
Again, thanks for being in this forum!

-JR

SuttonHT,

I've also gotton a lot of non-answers from WGBH-DT regarding the tuner problems. For my Panasonic with the audio SAP issue they told me to just switch the SAP off on my TV set!
My audio doesn't even go to my tv but to my hi-fi system, and I informed them there are no such switches.

Regarding the Samsung, they have given me no answers at all.

I am hopeful Samsung will fix this, and give us new code (or new tuners), since if WGBH-DT just finds a "work-around" we'll just have trouble again when another station comes on
and tries to add new PSIP features, that our "antique" tuners are supposed to be able to ignore if they don't support them.

Originally posted by Bill Gaw2
Am getting all Boston stations very well in Seacoast NH except 25. Are they not at full power yet? Bill

See my list, with at least FCC listed power levels:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131725

I expect channel 31(25) is at full power, but their full power is low compared to other Needham stations. They have
requested more, but I think the FCC is delaying appproving
most all power increases till everyone gets on the air, since interference problems are so prevalent.

This weekend I may buy a used Panasonic TU-HDS20 high-def receiver. I currently use a The ProScan PSHD105 (the RCA DTC 100 cousin) without any problems but I was curious is anyone has had any negative experiences whit this tuner in the Boston OTA arena. The reference to a SAP issue by jhe with a Panasonic got me wondering.

Regards,
Hal

Hal,

I should specify the Panasonic problem is with the model 50, and 51 tuners, and only with certain "newer" code revs.

The model you want I have not heard about one way or the other.

i have the tuhds20 and it works fine. The only thing that might bug someone as far as tuning is the lack of a signal meter.

-nate

I also contacted WGBH about the Samsung tuner but have not received a meaningful reply. Do we have a more effective way to contact WGBH instead of sending e-mail to the general feedback address?

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Anyone who has been on this board for awhile knows that I have been on the board since the early days of WBZ's HD signal. I post here often. You are, in a sense, communicating with the "horse's mouth"!!!! No need for letters as far as WBZ and WSBK are concerned.

Bob,

This is an understatement. We are all indebted to you and your proactive discourse with the burgeoning boston market HD community.

THANKS!
Tim

What's up with the breakups on WCVB-DT, Push, Nevada. Good signal readings but lots of blockiness. Same this past Tue.

Tim

Same here, great signal, tons of break up, but only noticed it during commercial breaks of sd :(Survivor (maybe next season).

Jim

ABC test reals on WCVB-DT now. Must have missed th feed switch. I taped these a while ago to for diagnostics.

Tim

Here is the useless response I got from GBH - I tell them there is a problem, they just respond, no there isn't. I give up, I have a better shot at getting PBS from Providence first, and they don't even have the $$$ for their transmitter yet.


Thank you for your e-mail. We checked with our engineering department and they
say that you should be getting 2-1 WGBH and 2-2 WGBX on WGBH DT19. They
suggested that you re-scan to find the new streams on WGBH DT19.

Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

WGBH Audience and Member Services

September 18, 2002,

>I have tried, as have others, and none of us Samsung owners can pull in your
> station despite a strong signal, even after ceasing tests on channel 43.
> This problem continues. As I mentioned in an earlier email, they have had
> similar problems at other PBS stations across the country and were able to
> correct it. I would also like to recommend someone from your engineering
> department might visit avsforum.com This is a large Home theater forum
> with a large HDTV section and has engineering and programming represenatives
> from numerous stations throughout the country contributing. It would
> provide a means to both provide info and solicit feedback for WGBH. I do
> thank you for your quick response.

I also noticed the signal hiccups on ABC's Push, Nevada. I attributed it to the new pre-amp I installed making multi-path worse. I guess I wasn;t the only one seeing it. I did notice that it was not appearing on the commercials so it could be something with the network feed or the 720p conversion process.
Push, Nevada is quite interesting, I think. I'm a big fan of the unique cinematography and DD5.1 sound.

-JR

last night, lots of breakups/flashes on wcvb during push nevada. (i considered it unwatchable).

no reception at all for 2.1/2.2 .

no reception at all for 25.1 tonight.
i'm not sure why that is - the weather conditions seemed to be amenable to UHF/DTV !

it could be time to re-aim my antenna - or get a rotator
for the attic as suggested by jhe ! i will consider that after i see how the antenna performs when it's receiving through 6 inches of ice-dam on the roof.

I also had problems during Push Nevada last night even though the signal was a constant 96-97 range. I also thought it was strange that the breakups occured only during the program and not during commercials and that only the picture was affected. There would be flashes of white that were very annoying. Not the typical green pixelation and high beeps that I usually get during bad weather or low signal days. The audio seemed solid. I only watched the 2nd episode of Push last night. Did it happen on both episodes?

No problems on CBS with CSI however.

Regards,
Hal

I've only seen it on Push, Nevada. But I think that's the only ABC show that I've watched! I agree that it's strange that only the video was affected. I don't think this is an RF issue but a production/facility issue.
-JR

Anyone think of actually going down to WGBH and trying to talk to the engineering dept? Actually, as an engineer for a large wireless company, I wouldn't want customers showing up here. Scratch that idea!! :D

-JR

We also saw a lot of weird "breakups" on WCVB last night, but only during the program, never the commercials.

To me, it looked like a kind of "digital ghosting" - about 1/2 way down the picture a copy of the top of the picture (or top left quadrant) of the picture would flash for a frame.

I've seen this before on WCVB (during Alias, amongst other programs), but never as bad as it was last night.

I only see this effect on WCVB, never on any of the other OTA channels, never during the commercials. I have seen other weird stuff on WCVB-HD before, like an all green picture during one of their movies. I think there must be some problem at the station.

Craig

I have seen this several times on CVB when a new show is coming on line, i.e. Alias Drew Carey etc. It then got better every week until fixed. Wouldn't though they (ABC) would have learned how to do this by now.

I am a new member so I hope that this is in the correct location…

In the past I have listened to the Patriots on WBCN while watching them on TV. I now have a Mits WS-65869 and a Mits SR-HD5. When I watch the game on a DTV channel (ABC/WCVB for game 1, CBS/WBZ for game 2) the audio (WBCN-FM) and the video do not sync. If I select the analog TV channel the audio and video are in sync.

I spoke with the engineering department at WBCN and they said that they sync (delay) their signal to the analog TV signal. They had never heard about the sync issue with DTV.

And now for my question, is there a consumer device available that will allow me to variably delay the FM input in to my receiver? I do not want to delay the output as I use the receiver for TV, DVD, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

I do know that WHDH-DT has an extra 1 second of delay. I think it gives the local station time to come out of the HD feed and queue into the local commercials. Bob Hess might be able to shed some light on something like that.

-JR

Originally posted by D_Doherty
I am a new member so I hope that this is in the correct location…

In the past I have listened to the Patriots on WBCN while watching them on TV. I now have a Mits WS-65869 and a Mits SR-HD5. When I watch the game on a DTV channel (ABC/WCVB for game 1, CBS/WBZ for game 2) the audio (WBCN-FM) and the video do not sync. If I select the analog TV channel the audio and video are in sync.

I spoke with the engineering department at WBCN and they said that they sync (delay) their signal to the analog TV signal. They had never heard about the sync issue with DTV.

And now for my question, is there a consumer device available that will allow me to variably delay the FM input in to my receiver? I do not want to delay the output as I use the receiver for TV, DVD, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Dave
Dave,

The television analog feed is delayed due to the time it takes to get the pictures from the stadium to the CBS Network and then from the Network to the television stations. This requires multiple satellite hops and the delay due to these hops is a few seconds. That is why WBCN delays their audio. On top of that, any digital processing takes time and the serious kind of processing you see on digital television (and to a certain extent digital cable) adds more delay. Dish Network and Direct TV add additional delay because their feeds involving uplinking to a satellite. WBCN can only match one delay so they choose to go with the analog off-air and analog cable delay. Dish Network, Direct TV, digital cable, and DTV users are going to see non-sync audio/video.

Devices are available to delay the audio but these are professional boxes that are not cheap.

Bob

Add me to the list of people with "Push, Nevada" problems. I too had the audio dropouts, and flashes in the lower 1/2 of the screen. Maybe differently from some others who have posted, I had the problem in 3 of 3 airings so far, with the first being merely annoying, but the second and third being pretty much unwatchable. Also differently from others, even though the flashes were only during the program itself, I had plenty of audio dropouts in the commercials. I hope that the problem is fixed soon.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
WBCN can only match one delay so they choose to go with the analog off-air and analog cable delay. Dish Network, Direct TV, digital cable, and DTV users are going to see non-sync audio/video.

Wow, I never though of that. This is going to confine me to analog OTA for the Pats. (Ordered my Dish Network 6000 STB last week.) :( Not a problem now since it's all SD, but when the Superbowl comes around again I need Gil & Gino AND HD. (Because of course the Pats are going to San Diego in January.)

How long is the delay? Is it small enough for WBCN to split the difference?

Taking a different approach, can the WBZ-TV feed be delayed to match the WBZ-DT feed during the games?

- Jim

Bob,
Thanks for the info. I had thought the time delay was only due to the time it took to do the compression at the source.

JStanton,
I think the delay is too much for WBCN to split the difference. While listening to the TV I was hearing (and seeing), "Brady drops back to pass..." while Gino was saying, "pass complete at the 45".

WBCN said that they were once syncing to the DirecTV feed but they got a lot of negative feedback then.

As for watching the analog, I just cannot do that, the increase in PQ overcomes the announcers - sorry Gino.

Unfortuantely, I also got a similiar response from WGBH. It sounds like the engineering department was not given all of the relevant information. I can't imagine that they would just recommend rescanning.

I think that mailing a real letter might be a better strategy than sending an e-mail to general feedback, but we need a contact person at WGBH who I can address directly. I'm happy to write this letter if anyone can give me a contact.

We also need to determine if the nature of the problem so that this can be communicated to WGBH. I believe Samsung owners used to be able to receive WGBH before they started mapping two channels on DT19, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have any insights?

Thanks.


Originally posted by SUTTONHT
Here is the useless response I got from GBH - I tell them there is a problem, they just respond, no there isn't. I give up, I have a better shot at getting PBS from Providence first, and they don't even have the $$$ for their transmitter yet.


Thank you for your e-mail. We checked with our engineering department and they
say that you should be getting 2-1 WGBH and 2-2 WGBX on WGBH DT19. They
suggested that you re-scan to find the new streams on WGBH DT19.

Thank you for your patience.

Sincerely,

WGBH Audience and Member Services

September 18, 2002,

>I have tried, as have others, and none of us Samsung owners can pull in your
> station despite a strong signal, even after ceasing tests on channel 43.
> This problem continues. As I mentioned in an earlier email, they have had
> similar problems at other PBS stations across the country and were able to
> correct it. I would also like to recommend someone from your engineering
> department might visit avsforum.com This is a large Home theater forum
> with a large HDTV section and has engineering and programming represenatives
> from numerous stations throughout the country contributing. It would
> provide a means to both provide info and solicit feedback for WGBH. I do
> thank you for your quick response.

haninger,

You're right, channel 19 worked just fine till they stopped the HDTV and started relaying 2 and 44 on the Samsung tuner.

Here's an engineering contact I've been corresponding with
about the problem:

Michael Foti <michael_foti@wgbh.org>

I told him there were lots of viewers in the area with the problem and it wasn't just my tuner, so it would be good if he heard from a few more people.

We received the long awaited, properly engineered component we have been waiting for (see my previous posts). If all goes well, we should begin testing WSBK-DT next week.

Bob

Woohoo!!!

-JR

great news!

Digital Buffy! Can't wait.

Mark H

What 'SBK-DT's ERP? Is the coverage the same as WBZ-DT?

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson
What 'SBK-DT's ERP? Is the coverage the same as WBZ-DT?

-JR

Unfortunately not as much as WBZ. 135KW is the best we can do per FCC.

Do you think the signal will get out here to Worcester? I'm running the CM 4228 with a Winegard 19dB UHF pre-amp. I'm guessing that UPN38's 135KW, vs 'BZ-DT's 725,000, won't be enough to rec'v reliably. Let's hope for a good Tropo duct right down the Mass Pike! :)

-JR

Why is WHDH 8:00pm In-Laws not in HD?

Originally posted by jhe
haninger,

You're right, channel 19 worked just fine till they stopped the HDTV and started relaying 2 and 44 on the Samsung tuner.

Here's an engineering contact I've been corresponding with
about the problem:

Michael Foti <michael_foti@wgbh.org>

I told him there were lots of viewers in the area with the problem and it wasn't just my tuner, so it would be good if he heard from a few more people.

I've got the same problem with my T150 in Ashland (15 miles west of Needham). I just sent Michael a note.

Originally posted by MikeD
Why is WHDH 8:00pm In-Laws not in HD?

I called WHDH and spoke to about 4 different people 16 times each and finally spoke to someone who would talk to me. He said everything was fine on their end and must be something wrong on my end. Well, at least Hidden Hills is now on in HD. I'll have to send an email to Jim.

Originally posted by Andy_L

... I'll have to send an email to Jim.
Good idea. I just just sent Jim Shultis an email too.

Great news Bob!

Is the 135KW temporary or permanent?

Thanks for keeping us informed!

-Dave

Originally posted by MikeD

Good idea. I just just sent Jim Shultis an email too.

Who is Jim Shultis?

-JR

Everyone with the Samsung Tuner WGBH-DT problem read Tom Weber's note:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151800&pagenumber=4

He managed to make his Indianapolis station talk to our tuners, by changing back to an older rev psip code.

Maybe there is some hope?

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Do you think the signal will get out here to Worcester? I'm running the CM 4228 with a Winegard 19dB UHF pre-amp. I'm guessing that UPN38's 135KW, vs 'BZ-DT's 725,000, won't be enough to rec'v reliably. Let's hope for a good Tropo duct right down the Mass Pike! :)

-JR

If you get WFXT-DT now, which has less power, you should be able to get the new WSBK-DT. And if WGBH-DT works at their current 30% power level, then WSBK-DT should too, with just a few db more antenna gain.

Originally posted by Andy_L


He said everything was fine on their end and must be something wrong on my end.

Well, I think they should look a little deeper at WHDH ... the In Laws was in SD here too with the grey bars on both sides .. unless they're doing HD in 4:3 :D Jay Leno was its usual glorious self, though .....

Originally posted by jhe


If you get WFXT-DT now, which has less power, you should be able to get the new WSBK-DT. And if WGBH-DT works at their current 30% power level, then WSBK-DT should too, with just a few db more antenna gain.

Fox is listed at 78K watts and shows an application to go up to 154,000. 'GBH-DT is licensed for 500K watts. 30% of that is 150k. If I can get Fox, if they are running at full (154,000), then I should be able to get 'GBH, right? That is, if I didn't have a Samsung tuner!!! Does 'GBH just not even show up on the Samsung tuners?

-JR

Originally posted by HDorBust
Great news Bob!

Is the 135KW temporary or permanent?

Thanks for keeping us informed!

-Dave

We are currently maxed-out at 135 KW. We have built our facility with the hope that we will be granted a power increase in the future.

Send me your signal reports when we get it on the air.

Bob

Oh yeah...when do we get to see the facility? Of course, I could just go visit our co-located cellular equipment!! :) Are the new transmitters/amps setup in the same room as our equipment?

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson


Who is Jim Shultis?

-JR

He is Director of Engineering at WHDH.
You can go to http://www.WHDH.com then click on "contact", then send a message to "Viewer Feedback / Programming" and/or "Station Management".

You will get his direct email address if he replies like he did when I wanted to know when Jay Leno would be in HD and if the Olympics would be in HD.

I did send an email via that route concerning them putting the black bars back on the overscan area when showing a 4:3 feed. All other channels use them. I do believe that 7-1 used to have them until recently. Or am I just crazy? Anyway, I never heard back. Should I call the station????

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson


Fox is listed at 78K watts and shows an application to go up to 154,000. 'GBH-DT is licensed for 500K watts. 30% of that is 150k. If I can get Fox, if they are running at full (154,000), then I should be able to get 'GBH, right? That is, if I didn't have a Samsung tuner!!! Does 'GBH just not even show up on the Samsung tuners?

-JR

Fox has had their power increase request in for many months,
but so far they seem to be still at low power, 78k. Nothing shows yet at the FCC indicating approval for the higher power anyway.

The Samsung tuners show the signal fine on WGBH-DT but just on the tuning meter. Also the green lock light lights.
There is no audio or video and when you try to add the channel to the channel list there is a message saying "the channel is not in service".

Originally posted by johnrobinson
I did send an email via that route concerning them putting the black bars back on the overscan area when showing a 4:3 feed. All other channels use them. I do believe that 7-1 used to have them until recently. Or am I just crazy? Anyway, I never heard back. Should I call the station????

-JR

7.2 has the black bars and is sent in SD. 7.1 has the gray bars to help stop burn-in and 4:3 feeds are SD sent in a HD frame.

They fixed the HD last night a little before 9:30. Lets see how they do tonight.

I've never seen the black bars on 7.2!? During hours other than primetime, all the other channels use the black bars for 4:3, while 7 does not. It just looks bad.

-JR

'GBH---- do I try to tune channel 19 or 2 on my Sammy 151?

-JR

If Fox is indeed still at 78k, than I should have no problem picking up PBS at 150k (30% test power) or the full 500 KW.

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson
'GBH---- do I try to tune channel 19 or 2 on my Sammy 151?

-JR

Tune to channel 19. Since it won't map the channel and is confused by the PSIP it won't know that anything maps to 2.
(
You have to always tune the real channel first, till it gets mapped, or rely on the scanning feature to do it for you. Then when a channel works you should thereafter be able to use the mapped number.)

listen here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173940)

This is live webcast of the The House Committee on Energy and Commerce
debating DTV. Worth a listen. The feed is still being sent as of noon today (9/25).

-JR

Oh man! Listening to the broadcast, it seems the government is about drive every Analog TV, DVD, current RPTV, and VCR, etc in to obsolescence! Not good! All for the sake of Hollywood and copy-protection....

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Oh yeah...when do we get to see the facility? Of course, I could just go visit our co-located cellular equipment!! :) Are the new transmitters/amps setup in the same room as our equipment?

-JR
Totally different building.

- Bob

Is the facility tour still a 'go' someday?

-JR

Originally posted by MikeD
Why is WHDH 8:00pm In-Laws not in HD?

I got this email from Jim at WHDH.

Mike,

Thanks for sending this in. We checked with NBC this morning; they
were not able to send out In-Laws and Frasier in HD- a technical
problem on their end. Let's hope the rest of their line up comes
through without problems.

Jim

Is 'GBH transmitting 24/7? I can't get any signal on 19 with my Sammy T-151.

-JR

Originally posted by MikeD
7.2 has the black bars and is sent in SD. 7.1 has the gray bars to help stop burn-in and 4:3 feeds are SD sent in a HD frame.

I think the black bars you are seeing on 7.2 are coming from your tuner.

On my Sony HD-100 which has a variable format output option, 7.1 is a HD signal in 16:9 format (with gray bars) and 7.2 is a SD signal in 4:3.

-- Doug

John Robinson - You will not be able to get GBH on channel 2 or 19 right now because you have a Samsung STB. This has been an ongoing issue for several months now, and as far as we know they are not even working on the problem. Don't worry though, they are not showing any HD material anyways....Please email them if you like, maybe if enough people email them we might be able to get some type of response.

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Is 'GBH transmitting 24/7? I can't get any signal on 19 with my Sammy T-151.

-JR

They used to go off around 11 PM, and I think they still do,
but haven't watched lately.

I still get channel 57 on my tuner and they still do HDTV.

SuttonHT,

I received the following response last night to an email I sent to the WGBH contact that jhe posted. Hopefully this means that they are or will begin to work on it.

mike


Thanks for message. Sorry about the reception difficulty. Yes I have gotten a number of e-mails forwarded to me regarding reception problems on Samsung boxes. I am working on determining where the problem lies. The thing that is making this hard to track down is other boxes that we are using are working ok. (RCA DTC100, Sencore AT984, and a Zenith set with a built in DTV tuner. I am trying to get a hold of a Samsung box to troubleshoot this.
Thank you for hanging in.

I also got a reply fromo GBH today, Thanks for the contact Info !!! It seems more promising than anything I have received to date:


Engineering really only determined there was a problem with Samsung STBs within the last week or so. It has been difficult to identify the problem. I know there have been other markets that have had similar issues. We are looking at PSIP as a possible cause. There was an upgrade to our Pearl PSIP software done around the time I beleive the problem with the Samsung boxes started. I am working with Thalis (formerly Thomcast) to fix this,. My target is to get the Samsung boxes
up early next week if we have nailed it down.

Sorry for the interuption in your reception on DT19.

Remember that you and I pay for PBS whether we want to or not (taxes).

-JR

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Remember that you and I pay for PBS whether we want to or not (taxes).
-JR

And some of us give them additional funds beyond our tax burden. That only serves to make us twice as frustrated when we can't get 'GBH.

The last few posts suggest that something good will finally happen with GBH & Samsung tuners. I've got my fingers crossed - and an inclination to give WENH my annual donation if they can't figure things out quickly enough!

It's about time I posted something to this forum..

For those still having trouble with WGBH. Here is some information from decoding their signal. There are a bug in the PMT, and the SAP for 2.2 is missing from the tables. You might want to pass this on to your contact at WGBH.

First of all there is a an error in the Master Guide Table (MGT) for the size of the Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table (TVCT). This is listed as 901 bytes (the same as the RRT), the actual size of the TVCT is 208 bytes. It has been that way for several weeks (at leaset since 7/15) so may not be the cause of the problems with the Samsung STBs.

The TVCT is the first entry in the MGT:

MGT:
PID = 1FFB, len = 182, src = 0, ver = 22, section = 0/0, protocol = 0
Num tables = 15
0: type = 0000, PID = 1FFB, version = 0, num bytes = 901
1: type = 0004, PID = 11FF, version = 15, num bytes = 103
2: type = 0301, PID = 1FFB, version = 0, num bytes = 901
3: type = 0100, PID = 1001, version = 15, num bytes = 292
4: type = 0101, PID = 1002, version = 15, num bytes = 220
5: type = 0102, PID = 1003, version = 15, num bytes = 326
6: type = 0103, PID = 1000, version = 15, num bytes = 220
7: type = 0200, PID = 1201, version = 15, num bytes = 141
8: type = 0201, PID = 1202, version = 15, num bytes = 141
9: type = 0202, PID = 1203, version = 15, num bytes = 282
10: type = 0203, PID = 1200, version = 15, num bytes = 141
11: type = 1100, PID = 1401, version = 5, num bytes = 14
12: type = 1101, PID = 1402, version = 5, num bytes = 14
13: type = 1102, PID = 1403, version = 5, num bytes = 14
14: type = 1103, PID = 1400, version = 5, num bytes = 14

They are also transmitting the SAP for WGBX with an elementry PID of 0029, but it does not appear in either the TVCT, or the PMT for that channel. It used to be incorrectly listed as 0025 in the PMT, but now it is not in either place.

Here is a breakdown of the TVCT:

PID = 1FFB, len = 208, src = 1357, ver = 15, section = 0/0, protocol = 0, channels = 3
2.2 WGBX-SD Frequency = 500.3MHz, TSID = 0x054D
Channel Name = "WGBX-SD"
PCR PID = 0021
Elem PID = 0021, Video
Elem PID = 0024, AC3 audio

2.1 WGBH-SD Frequency = 500.3MHz, TSID = 0x054D
Channel Name = "WGBH-SD"
PCR PID = 0031
Elem PID = 0031, Video
Elem PID = 0034, AC3 audio
Elem PID = 0035, AC3 audio
Elem PID = 002A, Type = 0B

2.0 WGBH-2 Frequency = 55.2MHz, TSID = 0x054C
Channel Name = "WGBH-2"

Do I need my eyes examined, or was ER really in HD last night?

-JR

I guess it was in HD, but after watching CSI first, ER was definitely 2nd rate. On the ER thread, I said that I missed the opening outdoor shots that everyone said were definitely HD. I kept changing channels from 7.1 to 7.2 and from a detail perspective, I couldn't tell much difference. At least, it wasn't as great a difference as it normally is. But, it still looked great compared to the FSU/Louisville game (where I spent most of my time).

Mr H,

Thanks for all the info. What equipment do you use to get at all this data?

I forwarded it to WGBH, and I am hopeful that it will help them cure my Panasonic tuner audio track mix ups as well as the Samsung problems, since you show the audio info all wrong too.

FYI The Samsung problem has existed for months now, since the time channel 43 first started testing on the air. So,
I think the Samsung bug problem is the one you pointed out.
That is what Tom Weber found in the Indianapolis thread at his station also, and they use the same PSIP software out there according to WGBH.

Yes thanks for all that info Mr. H, and thanks Jhe for forwarding it. Hopefully that will help them get back on track. I won't ask how you got that info, I'll be honest...I have no idea what the hell any of it means, but if it makes my STB work I'm happy !!

Here's the latest on WSBK-DT:

We now have the system RF "plumbing" complete from transmitter to antenna. We need to complete the following:

1. Final test of the transmitter's exciter - Should be done this weekend.

2. Final manufacturer proof of performance of the antenna system (for WSBK-DT, this means the master antenna combiner port). Manufacturer tells us mid-week next week.

3. Final check out of the ATSC encoder, PSIP encoder and upconverter. We hope to have this done mid-week next week. This is being done as a system check which includes everything from the upconverter to the antenna.

It's getting close, but no HD on UPN yet. Everything will be upconverted to 1080I for now.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV, WBZ-AM

Thanks Bob for the Update, it's great having the "horses mouth" on the boards, I wish more people like yourself came to these parts to let US consumers what is happening. Thanks again!!

Jim

To jhe, et al,

I've been working on a program to decode the PSIP information. I was more interested in the program guide (EPG) information. It seems that channel 7 (WHDH) is the only station (within range) that is transmitting meaningful EPG at the moment.

I'm using a HiPix card to record about a minutes worth of the transport stream, and then analyze it using the program I've been hacking away at for a while - it's just a lot of ugly bit picking. The specs for the transport stream are publicly available at atsc.org

_Paul

Anyone know how to contact WFXT to get them to "flip the switch" for tonight's Firefly? No widescreen so far...

Chria

Arrgh. Fox in narrowscreen again.

I called in and managed to get switched to Tom in master control, but he had no idea what was going on. His preview of the digital transmission was also in 4x3, but he didn't know how to correct the problem. He said he'd see if anyone was around in maintenance.

Question for those folks working in the local broadcast community: What would be the best way to try to work with Fox to implement a "HDTV Hotline" like WBZ has?

-jeff

I'd definitely like some kind of Fox hotline too, so I could also phone them or email them and complain about the 4x3 on both Firefly and John Doe! Maybe the issue came about due to the shows being delayed by the baseball game, rather than fed straight through?

Originally posted by jeffw
Arrgh. Fox in narrowscreen again.

I called in and managed to get switched to Tom in master control, but he had no idea what was going on. His preview of the digital transmission was also in 4x3, but he didn't know how to correct the problem. He said he'd see if anyone was around in maintenance.

Question for those folks working in the local broadcast community: What would be the best way to try to work with Fox to implement a "HDTV Hotline" like WBZ has?

-jeff

Given that FOX doesn't broadcast HDTV, probably NIL! :-(

(Although I agree getting them to implement a "WS hotline" would be useful.)

We also need to get them to broadcast 1080i or 720p instead of 480p.

-Dave

Does anybody know if WHDH has any plans to stop broadcasting 7.2 now that NBC has more HD? In general, I am very happy with the picture quality of WBZ and WCVB and neither of them have a sub channel.

Speaking of WBZ, the Florida/Tenn game last weekend was incredible. I really want to thank CBS for doing college football in HD. I went to a college where football was king and so I have an appreciation for any good college football game. This year it is not strictly SEC because Miami is on a couple of weeks and FSU is too. Can a ND-BC matchup be too far away?Needless to say, I am pretty excited about the ABC/ESPN announcement, I just wish they would do the BCS in HD.

Bob, please pardon my ignorance, but I am unaware of the HD programming that the UPN offers(or plans to). I have heard of HDone, but I thought you were showing that on WBZ. I have heard of Enterprise but never watched the show. Please feel free to enlighten me. Thank you for keeping us posted.

Question for Bob Hess: I guess I am jumping ahead a little but was just curious whether Enterprise will be in 16x9 fullscreen on the DT channel or letterboxed and then encapsulated in the 16x9 frame?

Thank you for all the great efforts both regarding WBZ-DT and WSBK-DT.

Sal

i,m here in methuen trying to watch sunday football,both fox and cbs have lost singnal,anyone having this problem.my antenna is still intact just rechecked.
:confused:

WBZ-DT pegged at 100, FOX between 37-44. Toshiba DST3000, Channel Master 8-bay & pre-amp. Nashua area.

I have been watching WBZ, but I just switched to FOX and have seen 1 slight dropout in 5 minutes..

-Dave

Originally posted by Sal
Question for Bob Hess: I guess I am jumping ahead a little but was just curious whether Enterprise will be in 16x9 fullscreen on the DT channel or letterboxed and then encapsulated in the 16x9 frame?

Thank you for all the great efforts both regarding WBZ-DT and WSBK-DT.

Sal
Enterprise will be available in HD at some point, hopefully this year. In the meantime, it will be upconverted to 1080I.

- Bob

Originally posted by jjoboh
i,m here in methuen trying to watch sunday football,both fox and cbs have lost singnal,anyone having this problem.my antenna is still intact just rechecked.
:confused:
WBZ was operating normally this weekend. Indoor antenna?

- Bob

Hi all, I've a question about WGBH-DT reception. I'm in Somerville and can get NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX
perfectly but I can't get WGBH-DT at all.
I am using an indoor antenna (RS "Digital Antenna")
I've also tried the TERK 'bat' type antenna and that
will _sometimes_ give me the WGB?-SD stations.

Any ideas? Is it possible to combine antennas to boost the signal?

-fjr

Originally posted by Bob Hess

Enterprise will be available in HD at some point, hopefully this year. In the meantime, it will be upconverted to 1080I.

- Bob

Yes I remember you saying that Enterpise (and other things) will be all upconverted. However my question was regarding Aspect Ratios. Right now Enterprise is letterboxed on WSBK. That means its a 16x9 picture in a 4x3 frame.
So I guess the question is two fold. A) Will WSBK-DT be widescreen or 4x3? B) I have a 16x9 HDTV so will Enterprise on WSBK-DT appear as a 16x9 signal letterboxed in a 4x3 frame as it is for the analog channel and then encapsulated in another 16x9 frame for the digital channel (leading to a lot of black space) or will you guys actually zoom the analog signal so we get a 16x9 picture?

The thing is ... I am not sure how WSBK gets the signal for Enterprise. If you guys get an anamorphic feed than i guess all you do is send that out upconverted but if UPN sends you guys a letterboxed signal then what is the final picture that we get?

The reason I ask is because for a while ER on NBC was letterboxed and watching on WHDH-DT, I got that letterboxed signal in the widescreen form so I had bars on all sides of the picture. Black around the top and bottom (as one would see on WHDH) and then the grey bars on the side (which WHDH-DT introduced).

Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. Anyone understand what I'm trying to say? :) Or I should just wait and watch when WSBK-DT goes live ... :D

fjramsay,

WGBH has been having a lot of problems lately, especially for people with Samsung tuners - something about the PSIP information they are trying to send along with the signal. Flip back a few pages in this very thread and you'll see a lot of discussion regarding these problems with WGBH. I can almost guarantee the problem is not with your antenna. If you get the other stations, you ought to get WGBH just as well - it's just a matter of WGBH or Samsung eventually addressing the conflict that prevents you from getting a picture. Supposedly, someone at WGBH is now working on it.

Joe

Hello,
Since the posts in this thread were helpful to me when deciding on whether to attempt to make the jump to HDTV, I just wanted to let others in my area know that I can receive all the major Boston network DTV broadcasts here in Derry.

My equipment includes a recently purchased Samsung SIR-T151 STB along with the RS 15-1862 VHF/UHF amplified indoor antenna, which I picked up on closeout for $20. I live on the top floor of a 3 story apt. bldg., which sits on fairly high ground and my apt. is in the SE corner of the bldg. I wouldn't be allowed to hang any satellite dishes on the outside of my bldg, so OTA was my only option.

I'd like to add that I found almost no sales people at any of the major electronics retailers to be knowledgeable of how easy it could be to receive these stations in my area and how superior the picture is to that received from the local "digital cable" provider. Thanks again to all those who post helpful information in this forum.
-Ezgoin

Sal,

Initially, you will see Enterprise inside a 4x3 frame - letterbox and all.

Bob

Originally posted by fjramsay
Hi all, I've a question about WGBH-DT reception. I'm in Somerville and can get NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX
perfectly but I can't get WGBH-DT at all.
I am using an indoor antenna (RS "Digital Antenna")
I've also tried the TERK 'bat' type antenna and that
will _sometimes_ give me the WGB?-SD stations.

Any ideas? Is it possible to combine antennas to boost the signal?

-fjr

A RS Double bowtie VHF/UHF (indoor) antenna works much better than any of the TERK antennas and I don't think RS Digital Antenna will be better. I bought mine from RS store at Harvard Square, Cambridge for about $18.

Anyone else notice that WBZ-DT has been broadcasting their SD stuff in 16X9 since the 9:30 pm commercial breaks (during CSI Miami) last night?
I like that it fills my screen but it seems a little fuzzy.
-JR

Bob Hess...if this is another test to see if the viewing public prefers 4x3 crystal clear vision to 16x9 blurvision, I vote for 4x3.

I noticed and thought it was odd. I also liked that it filled the screen. Will be much better when they start making commercials in hdtv. Had a few breakups last night on 4.1 - anyone else ? Usually never have them. Looking forward to Bob Hess's announcement any day now.

Originally posted by Bob Hess

Enterprise will be available in HD at some point, hopefully this year. In the meantime, it will be upconverted to 1080I.

- Bob

Hey Bob,

I like the way WBZ-DT is now upconverting the SD signals to provide widescreen with little (if any stretching). It looks like you might just be chopping some of some of the top and bottom. You just need to get the cameramen on the 11PM news to pay a little more attention to where they are framing people.

Hopefully with Enterprise on 39 you will provide widescreen as part of the upconversion (like you are doing on WBZ), so the top and bottom black bars get lopped off.

Originally posted by Bob Hess

Sal,

Initially, you will see Enterprise inside a 4x3 frame - letterbox and all.

Bob

[I originally posted this before seeing your reply quoted above about 4:3 framing... Booooo..., I will probably stick to watching the analog because I can get my receiver to zoom that, my receiver can't zoom HD signals...] :(

Hopefully the HD broadcast of Enterprise will be sooner, rather than later!

Thanks,
-Dave

Wow! You guys really are watching!

One of our technicians accidentally threw the upconverter in 14x9 when trying to duplicate the settings for the WSBK upconverter. It is now back in 4x3.

14x9 gives a somewhat widescreen look without distorting the image. It does crop the top and bottom. We have tried this in the past and most AVS viewers seem to want 4x3. I always need to remind myself, however, that you guys are the techno-experts and may not be the "average" viewer. The time may come when we decide to stretch the picture in some way. For now, though, WBZ stays in 14x9.

WSBK may be on testing tonight. Any and all signal reports appreciated.

Bob

Originally posted by Bob Hess

WSBK may be on testing tonight. Any and all signal reports appreciated.

Bob

"Be careful what you wish for!"

---

Hopefully we can be brief and just list what you need. What would you like besides the basic:
receiving location, STB model, antenna, signal quality (both subjective, and if a meter exists objective)?

(Will you do QSL cards for the DX-ers.)

Originally posted by jalferes
...Had a few breakups last night on 4.1 - anyone else ? Usually never have them. Looking forward to Bob Hess's announcement any day now.

I couldn't lock in 4.1 consistently at all last night up here in NH. Other stations were fine though.