Originally posted by ezgoin
Hello,
Since the posts in this thread were helpful to me when deciding on whether to attempt to make the jump to HDTV, I just wanted to let others in my area know that I can receive all the major Boston network DTV broadcasts here in Derry.

My equipment includes a recently purchased Samsung SIR-T151 STB along with the RS 15-1862 VHF/UHF amplified indoor antenna, which I picked up on closeout for $20. I live on the top floor of a 3 story apt. bldg., which sits on fairly high ground and my apt. is in the SE corner of the bldg. I wouldn't be allowed to hang any satellite dishes on the outside of my bldg, so OTA was my only option.

I'd like to add that I found almost no sales people at any of the major electronics retailers to be knowledgeable of how easy it could be to receive these stations in my area and how superior the picture is to that received from the local "digital cable" provider. Thanks again to all those who post helpful information in this forum.
-Ezgoin


Oh man. Now I have to seriously consider going HDTV again! You get good recepetion with an indoor antenna?! I can only hope that Manchester will have comparable reception......

Tough decisions! New receiver or HDTV STB?
:D

I want to thank everyone for there replies. I was able to use my RS digital antenna along with a RS double bow tie and a joiner. So I think I'm now getting all the stations in the area.
One question though. Titantv lists WGBH-DT as 2-1 but 2-1 shows up as WGBH-SD. It it they only run WGBH-DT when they have actuall HD programming?

Oh and my tuner isn't a Sammy, it's a Hughes HIRD-E86 :)

-fjr

Originally posted by ezgoin


I couldn't lock in 4.1 consistently at all last night up here in NH. Other stations were fine though.

I had severe problems last night not only with 4.1, but also 5.1 and 7.1. It did seem to ease up around 11 PM.

Jay

I tried to record CSI-Miami last night but was unsuccessful because I could not maintain a good signal and the DVCR shut off after 5 minutes. That was the first time this has happened to me and maybe it was because the engineers were working on WSBK. Oh well, as long as it is fixed by Thurs I will be happy.

I had a problem with WCVB last night during MNF. I noticed that my dropouts coincided with a pick up of the wind out side. The same thing could be happening to you as the swaying trees cause fading and/or multipath.

-JR

Originally posted by Bob Hess
For now, though, WBZ stays in 14x9.


You mean 4x3???

-JR

I sent WGBH Mr.H's post of 9/26, to which I received this reply today...

Mike Foti of WGBH wrote:
I saw this analysis. The missing SAP channel PID has been added back into PSIP. Main and SAP is working on both program streams. We have also installed an update of PSIP software that is supposed to fix among other things the Samsung STB problem.

I just did a re-scan on my SIR-T150, and now have WGBH...

My channel list shows: 2-1 WGBH-SD, 2-2 WGBX-SD.

I'm not sure why they're both showing up as SD - but at least I have a picture!

AdmiralBenson,

Great news. Can't wait to get home and try it!

As to the lack of HDTV, WGBH sent us mail some time ago that they would stick with the low-def for a while.

Maybe when they put 43 back on the air they'll have enough of it and make one station HD???

Meanwhile I have to watch channel 57.

Originally posted by johnrobinson


You mean 4x3???

-JR
I can't believe I said that! Yes, WBZ, for now, stays in 4x3.

- Bob

Originally posted by woz
I tried to record CSI-Miami last night but was unsuccessful because I could not maintain a good signal and the DVCR shut off after 5 minutes. That was the first time this has happened to me and maybe it was because the engineers were working on WSBK. Oh well, as long as it is fixed by Thurs I will be happy.
Everything was operating normally last night on 'BZ except the aspect ratio.

- Bob

Originally posted by jimg


"Be careful what you wish for!"

---

Hopefully we can be brief and just list what you need. What would you like besides the basic:
receiving location, STB model, antenna, signal quality (both subjective, and if a meter exists objective)?

(Will you do QSL cards for the DX-ers.)
We do send out WBZ Radio QSL's. I suppose I could scratch out "DT" after the WBZ.

All I will need to know is how the signal is received relative to WBZ and WFXT.

No WSBK tonight. Should be sometime tomorrow (Wednesday).

- Bob

I had problems on WBZ and WCVB last night too. My 6000 was picking up everything fine but it was the HiPix that was having problems. However, WFXT and WGBH were both fine. I moved the antenna around a little and got all channels ok, so maybe it was the weather causing some kind of problems.

Looking forward to WSBK-DT tomorrow :)

Sal

Hi,

I watched BZ last night pretty much between 8 and 11 (with some time out for MNF) and ha dno problems with the reception of picture or sound on a T-151 here in North Attleboro.

Chris10

i liked the WBZ just fine in 14:9 - more of that would be fine with me. the tiny bit of cropping is not objectionable for typical 4:3 material. channel 4 news & commercials are not films, so the 'original aspect ratio' is not so important to me.

maybe wsbk dtv tomorrow! in time for _enterprise_ , even if it is stuck in a tiny window (why oh why) in 16:9 HD mode?
in any case, as long as it's DTV i say N I C E !
Bob, you rock!

by the way, could you tell us the make & model number of the upconverter you have for WBZ? thank you.

It's Tuesday evening and I am getting WGBH on my Samsung SIR-T151. Nothing in HD yet of course, but I'm glad they're finally back. A huge thanks to the people here who actively contacted WGBH about getting it back up and running for us Samsung folks.

Joe

Originally posted by tveli

by the way, could you tell us the make & model number of the upconverter you have for WBZ? thank you.

We use a Faroudja upconverters for all of our stations.

http://www.faroudja.com/products/hdtv.html

- Bob

thanks Bob. if i still lived out in the bay area i might like to apply to do engineering work @ faroudja. :) they have lots of job openings in Bangalore too. i wonder if there are any dtv product engineering companies in the boston/NH area.

in other news, i saw someone here mention WMUR - i think maybe they increased power lately. recently my setup shows signal strength all the way to the "h" in strength - about 90% . but massive multipath makes it unwatchable even though they've stopped the silly stretching of the picture. (my antenna is pointed south at needham not at WMUR.)

Got a few pops of 'GBH here in Worcester last night on the 151. Not enough to keep the picture though...but any picture is a good sign from them! Thanks to those who pushed and prodded the folks at 'GBH to get things fixed. Also, no sign of 'SBK testing last night.

-JR

Yes, GBH is back for the Sammy owners. Now all we need is some HD stuff.

BOB HESS : I'm guessing that UPN did not test last night, if they did I report 0 signal strength in Sutton MA.

Still not soup yet. Maybe tomorrow.....

- Bob

Waiting with anticipation.

Only wish we could get Saturday night Sherlock Holmes, Sunday AM Stooges, an Abbot & Costello Movie and followed by a good adventure/war movie. Ah the WSBK classic years.

A proud tradition following the WBZ Boomtown tradition....

Tim

A proud tradition following the WBZ Boomtown tradition....


Your age is showing :)

Don't forget Gumby and Pokie

I have been getting WBZ DTV loud and clear for about a year from Windham NH. Within the past few days I have just a black screen. Signal stragth never drops below 78- and has always been that way. But no picture, not even choppy. the ABC and NBC affiliates come in fine, and at lower signal streght. I am using a DTC-100.

????

Originally posted by jnoel
I have been getting WBZ DTV loud and clear for about a year from Windham NH. Within the past few days I have just a black screen. Signal stragth never drops below 78- and has always been that way. But no picture, not even choppy. the ABC and NBC affiliates come in fine, and at lower signal streght. I am using a DTC-100.

????

Ditto here in Derry. I wonder if there is a new source of interference or multipath that has come into play. My Samsung locks in occasionally for a few seconds and then nothing.

I caught WSBK for a minute today, it shows promise :) keep up the testing, I went back 10 minutes later, it was off, oh well, it should be here soon !!

Jim

Originally posted by Steve Richards


Your age is showing :)

Steve,

But I only remember he Sgt Billy years so I can't be that old... right?

Tim

Originally posted by rudolpht


Steve,

But I only remember he Sgt Billy years so I can't be that old... right?

Tim

Well crap, I'm so old now that I can't even remember that much about the show :confused:

At about 5:10pm I tuned in and got a good signal for WSBK-DT on 39 here in Bellingham, although it's gone now. Looked like Judge Judy in 14x9.

Dave

Originally posted by David Fisk
At about 5:10pm I tuned in and got a good signal for WSBK-DT on 39 here in Bellingham, although it's gone now. Looked like Judge Judy in 14x9.

Dave
Sorry to say this, but we are having problems with the ATSC encoder. You are correct, we have had the transmitter on briefly for testing. Glad to see it was received in Bellingham and Rhode Island. No PSIP connected (when testing), which is why you saw it on 39.

Bob

Bob, I did notice something yesterday and today when it was on, there was a minor interference problem, it was like vertical lines rolling from right to left, looks like electrical interference, I didn't know if anyone noticed it. It appeared on both my DTC-100 and my HiPix tuner, so it wasn't just on one tuner. I know it is in the testing stages, so I figure that I would let you know what I saw, Thanks for the updates!

Jim

Originally posted by David Fisk
At about 5:10pm I tuned in and got a good signal for WSBK-DT on 39 here in Bellingham, although it's gone now. Looked like Judge Judy in 14x9.

Judge Judy and good signal shouldn't be used in the same paragraph :D.

Why is the Fla/Ole Miss game in SD? HDTVGalaxy says it's in HD. BTW, MI2 last weekend frequently came back in SD from comm'ls.

Seems like some bugs still need to be worked out... After seeing that the first 5 minutes of MIB were in standard definition on WHDH-DT tonight, I called them up. After being transferred by 5 different people, I finally got someone who understood what I was talking about. He was surprised that anything was wrong, ran over to the control room, and found out that whoever was in charge never received word from NBC that the movie was going to be available in HDTV. They flipped the switch, and everything looks good so far. So it is definitely worthwhile to make a call when things aren't quite right...

But then the whole second half was back to SD! Thanks to your alert, they finally knew it was HD, so where did it break down next? One begins to wonder if some locals or networks care.

Bill

According to titan TV, there is a program on at 5:30 in HD on 2-1.

Hopefully they will start doing HD again now, as I am completely unable to get the NH PBS channel.


Jeff

I was watching Toy Story on ABC just now, and it's just about the very best looking high def i've ever seen! :) but then the signal disappeared for a few seconds only to come back in SD. doh! I hope it was nothing serious, and the HD will come back before Alias.

Nope, is there a number to call and complain at ABC?

I just sent am email to wcvbprogramming@thebostonchannel.com
I wish I had the number for the control room. Can anyone help?
Thanks

Alias in HD - NOT!

Boo!

I need a phone number to call and complain!

-Dave


:mad:

Great! Now NBC is broadcasting black on their High-Def subchannel while the SD sub-channel is fine. This is a sucky night for hi-def in Boston...

Doesn't look like WHDH has their act together either because all I am getting is the NBC logo instead of Boomtown (though 7.2 is working).

WOZ,

WHDH said that they have called NBC and that the network is having the problem and they are working on it.

Dave

Agree Boo on WCVB.

We need a list of control rooms. If only WCVB (and others) would be as thoughtful as WBZ with an HDTV line.

Tim

Originally posted by GrantR
I was watching Toy Story on ABC just now, and it's just about the very best looking high def i've ever seen! :) but then the signal disappeared for a few seconds only to come back in SD. doh! I hope it was nothing serious, and the HD will come back before Alias.

Toy Story 2 looked great! Probably because it's all digital. The HD went out towards the end, probably with 20-30 minutes left to go. After that I watched the Sopranos (in SD - only downside right now to OTA) and came back to ABC for the Practice, which was unfortunately all in SD as well.

Joe

Just tuned to channel 39 and getting about 80 - 85% of the WSBK signal out here in the middle of no where Hubbardston. Other than being stretched and cut, it looks great and is coming in clean with very sparse breakups. Great job Bob!

Also switched over to my South-Western pointing antenna and now I'm getting WCDC-DT 36 with about 65 - 75% of the signal w/PSIP at 19. Hadn't even realized they were online, was only expecting WGBY when I did the channel scan.

-Mike

Home for lunch and 39 is coming in pretty well. Signal quality of 48-58 on my DTC-100 with a few dropouts. No dropouts on MyHD!! Cannot receive FOX at all (signal 22-28) which is typical for me out this far on the Cape. For what it's worth BZ's signal is 65-75. Thanks Bob!! And crew!!

Originally posted by sbuckler
Thanks Bob!! And crew!!

Bob Yankowitz, our RF Systems Manager has been doing most of the work. Obviously, you were referring to him (Bob), and he thanks you!

Appreciate the reports. As of right now (Noon hour on Monday), the transmitter is on the air with full power. We have the upconverter set at 14x9 for various reasons and no PSIP (meaning you are seeing us on our actual RF channel of 39).

- Bob

I'll see if I can pick it up in Worcester tonight. Glad to see another HD station online!

-JR

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Bob Yankowitz, our RF Systems Manager has been doing most of the work. Obviously, you were referring to him (Bob), and he thanks you!

Appreciate the reports. As of right now (Noon hour on Monday), the transmitter is on the air with full power. We have the upconverter set at 14x9 for various reasons and no PSIP (meaning you are seeing us on our actual RF channel of 39).

- Bob

Sorry about that...

Thanks Bob Hess - getting 100% in Winchester.

Just wondering, will PSIP update the DirecTV guide or does DirecTV need to do something on their end?

Hi,

Been trying to get WSBK all afternoon but not much success out here in Framingham. I am getting readings of 80+ on WGBH-DT/WBZ-DT/WCVB-DT/WFXT-DT but a lot of break ups and signal fluctuating between 0 and 60 on WSBK-DT. Just noticed that my 6000 is actually displaying WSBK at channel 38, but still getting break ups. IS WSBK-DT on the same antenna as WBZ-DT/WCVB-DT/WGBH-DT? And if so are the power levels different? Maybe some new multipath issues are playing havoc with me now....

Sal

I tried channel 39 around 4:45 PM in Billerica. I don't get a picture, but my Mitsubishi WS-65909 RPTV (integrated HDTV tuner) reboots if I leave it at 039.01 long enough (10 seconds or so). The channel number blinks slowly before the TV reboots (powers off and power light flashes for around 30 seconds, at which point it can be turned back on). All other local channels (2.1, 2.2, 4, 5, 7.1, 7.2, 23, 25) come in crystal clear - the TV doesn't have a signal meter.

Regarding Direct-TV guide, I do not have a clue what you are talking about! Enlighten me and I'll see if I can take care of it.

Sal: WSBK is operating from the same antenna as WBZ. WBZ is 725,000 watts. WSBK is 135,000 watts. Both stations are operating at the maximum power authorized by the FCC. From Framingham, you should be able to see it unless we have a problem with our transport stream and your particular receiver. What kind of antenna are you using?

We now have PSIP virtual channel enabled and you should be seeing WSBK-DT on 38.1.

All reports welcome!

- Bob

Bob: Its the same issue on both tuners (DISH-6000) and HiPix. I dont think its a transport stream issue. I am using a Silver Sensor outside on my balcony. Its pointed to Needham, but there is some concrete in the way. Signal strength on both my tuners for the needham stations is over 80 except for WSBK. If i repoint the antenna, I can pick up WSBK, but I lose all other channels. I have the same situation with WHDH, and I'm using a jointenna for that. Guess i need another one for channel 39.

Sal

Bob,

I'm getting 100% signal strength on channel 39 from an indoor antenna (Megawave MTV1) in Bridgewater but a flickering screen and snow. Using a DST 3000 receiver. Also seeing 38-0 (black screen) and 38-1 (flickering snow) 38 is coming in fine. WBZ and FXT are 100% also.

Dave

Great signal down here in Falmouth on the cape !!! coming in on 38.1 and giving me a strong 77 on the signal meter. Great job Mr. Hess - thank you !

Bob,

Here in South Plymouth/Sagamore, signal strength on WSBK-DT seems roughly equivalent to other stations on your tower, but neither of my STBs (Panny TU-HDS20 and Sammy SIR-T150) can lock on to the signal for more than a few seconds. On the Samsung, signal occasionally remaps to 38, but mostly vacillates between 39.0 and 39.1. Maybe I should move to Falmouth. :-(

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Regarding Direct-TV guide, I do not have a clue what you are talking about! Enlighten me and I'll see if I can take care of it.

Sal: WSBK is operating from the same antenna as WBZ. WBZ is 725,000 watts. WSBK is 135,000 watts. Both stations are operating at the maximum power authorized by the FCC. From Framingham, you should be able to see it unless we have a problem with our transport stream and your particular receiver. What kind of antenna are you using?

We now have PSIP virtual channel enabled and you should be seeing WSBK-DT on 38.1.

All reports welcome!

- Bob

Bob,

DirecTV's (Sat) guide lists the programming on every station (including the locals rec'd OTA).

The guide displays the programming for 38 but not 39-1 (earlier today) or 38-1 (now).

And like GSR, my Mits is timing out when using the integrated tuner, when using the DirecTV tuner I get snow. The signal strength is down to the forties (from 100).

Thanks,

Dave

Originally posted by dhg
Bob,

Here in South Plymouth/Sagamore, signal strength on WSBK-DT seems roughly equivalent to other stations on your tower, but neither of my STBs (Panny TU-HDS20 and Sammy SIR-T150) can lock on to the signal for more than a few seconds. On the Samsung, signal occasionally remaps to 38, but mostly vacillates between 39.0 and 39.1. Maybe I should move to Falmouth. :-(

Bob--

Ditto over here in Ashland; I'm getting frequent oscillations from 39.0 to 39.1. Occasionally, it remaps to 38.1 and remains steady for 30sec-2min.

Signal looks relatively strong and steady. Wheel of fortune was coming through 16x9, which I thought was sort of strange considering your previous comments.

Using a Samsung SIR-T150 w/ 1.8 of the firmware

My DTC-100 is slow to lock on to 38.1, but it does, slower then all the rest of the Boston channels, dunno why. My signal here in the Ocean state is 94 on my DTC-100 and 80 on my HiPix Card. There still seems to be a problem with interference on WSBK, it is the only one that I have problems with, it is vertical lines running from right to left, more noticible on certain color backgrounds, but always there. Am I the only one with this problem? It occurs on both of my Tuners.

Thanks again Bob for all the great work/communications!

Jim

I'm having all sorts of problems with 38 right now. I had been getting it just fine before the PSIP and it remapped. I can't seem to get much of a signal now (occasionaly it pops up to 5-10 -- it was at 93, all day) It also is completely locking up my box sometimes, which I've never seen. I have a DST-3000 and live on the Waltham/Newton/Watertown line ~3 miles from the Needham towers. All the other stations come in with perfect signals.

BTW- Anyone have info on UPN HD programming? Any chance of Enterprise (since I know it's already produced in HD) in HD later this season or in re-runs? Will we see any other HD content on WSBK that isn't necessarily UPN based?

Thanks...

Originally posted by Bob Hess

We now have PSIP virtual channel enabled and you should be seeing WSBK-DT on 38.1.

All reports welcome!

- Bob [/B]

Bob:

There's something strange going on with your signal. If I tune to 38.1 or 39, it causes my Mitsubishi box (HD-5) to lock up and then reboot.

I think some other folks reported having similar problems with Mits boxes and WSBK. Any idea what may be up?

-jeff

Firstly, Drew Carey wasn't in HD tonight, so I called in and security transfered me to someone in master control. He said they had dead equipment, which is why they weren't running HD tonight. He was hoping they'd have it fixed tomorrow.

Also, Chronicle is supposed to be in HD tomorrow...

Getting 'SBK fine here in Worcester with the exception of the diagonal ghost lines that were mentioned earlier. I am using a Sammy 151.
I called WCVB regarding the 2nd night of no HD (Drew Carey). They said there are techinical difficulties with the network HD feed.
-JR

Hopefully, all the calls they are getting will increase their awareness of the HD viewership....a problem that WBZ doesn't have because of Rockin' Bob Hess!

-JR

Originally posted by Bob Hess

We now have PSIP virtual channel enabled and you should be seeing WSBK-DT on 38.1.

All reports welcome!

- Bob
Bob,

I'm getting very strange results up in Southern NH. My box (Panny DST-51) locks on pretty well with a strong picture/signal on 39.1. Then after a little while it tries to remap to 38, loses all signal, and then after a few seconds comes back on as 39.1. This cycle repeats over and over again. The signal is nice and clear on 39.1 so it doesn't seem like a signal strength issue. Seems like its unhappy with the PSIP somehow.

I'm getting a good strong signal (as good as the other Boston stations) here in Ashland on my Samsung ST150 w/version 2 firmware. There are occasional diagonal wavy lines on the picture.

I'm getting 39 at 100% about half a mile from the towers. No picture problems with my AccessDTV pc tuner card. I may have to watch Buffy tomorrow night in digital instead of analog :)

However my little commercial cutting program fails to decode a lot of the I-frame image slices in it's preview window. It's probably my software having some bugs.

Originally posted by HDTVGeek
I'm getting very strange results up in Southern NH. My box (Panny DST-51) locks on pretty well with a strong picture/signal on 39.1. Then after a little while it tries to remap to 38, loses all signal, and then after a few seconds comes back on as 39.1. This cycle repeats over and over again. The signal is nice and clear on 39.1 so it doesn't seem like a signal strength issue. Seems like its unhappy with the PSIP somehow.

Bob - I'm having similar issues here in Andover with my Panny TU-HDS20 (rev 8.10) It locks on to 39 no problem and maps to 38-1, but my info banner appears repeatedly and is also accompanied by breakups of the picture/sound. These don't seem related to signal strength but probably something about the PSIP stream which my receiver doesn't like.

Hope this was helpful and you guys can get it straightened out soon.

Bob,

WSBK-DT coming in on my Dish 6000 but breaking up. Much more stable on MyHD card.

DirecTV is mapping 38-0 as analog & 38-1 as digital on my Tooshiba DST-3000. No reception on either channel. Guide data says "Regular Schedule" Assume they will map the new Dt channel in the next Advanced Programming Guide Update (which is seperate from PSIP).

Absolutely HATE the 14x9.....:(

Tim

8:47 PM here in Framingham and I'm getting a fairly steady 92 to 94 level reading at 38.1 on my Sony HD100. However I am getting constant drop outs as well which I don't understand with such a constant signal.

Jay

Bob...down in Taunton, getting about a 40% signal on 39-1 with only snow and some interference lines. If I try 38-1, my Hughes E86 locks up and I have to reboot. I get 100% on WBZ and WCVB.

Checked a little while ago - had a 98% on my HD100 - but do have the dropouts - kinda like watching 25.1 I am thinking it is probably the low power transmitter ?

In Maynard I'm getting 19, 20, 30, and 42 at 100; 31 at 65-72; 39 at 0-6.
There were a few seconds where it got up to 18. I've got an old rooftop antenna and an E86. Analog 38 is coming in well today.

Toshiba DST-3000, Nashua area. 51-58% Same problems as others, steady signal, snow or alternating black / snow on 39-1, 38-1. Both channels lock up the DST-3000 and ultimately cause it to reboot.

No reception problems on other stations using a CM 4228 in the attic pointed towards a fixed position.

Channel signal strength
19 79 - 93
20 100-100
23 100-100
30 100-100
31 93-100
39 51- 51 Snow
42 86 - 93
57 0 - 0 Never a peep
59 0 - 6 Only available on 2nd rotated antenna

-Dave

Originally posted by HDTVGeek
I'm getting very strange results up in Southern NH. My box (Panny DST-51) locks on pretty well with a strong picture/signal on 39.1. Then after a little while it tries to remap to 38, loses all signal, and then after a few seconds comes back on as 39.1. This cycle repeats over and over again. The signal is nice and clear on 39.1 so it doesn't seem like a signal strength issue. Seems like its unhappy with the PSIP somehow.

I have the same problem here in Tewksbury with my Sony 34XBR2 with build in HDTV turner.

Same in Boston South end.

Bob, it's actually vertical lines rolling from Left to Right. Don't know what the cause of it.

Jim

Receiving 38 on 38.1 in Uxbridge, MA. Signal 86-88 on Sony HD100 (WBZ shows 94-96 as a reference). Loosing picture every 2-3 minutes. I watched the signal meter for 5-8 minutes and it never deviated from the above range, but picture loss was constant. Using a Rat Shack VU-190XR. DT 2,4,5,7,25 have been rock solid to date with this setup.

--Andy

Malden here.

Win XP Home with MyHD v1.55.1 and 1.55.3 both reboot XP watching "no signal" on 39. It does recognise there is D-39. Sometimes if I am lucky, I do get 1 sec of video and audio. Then after a few seconds of no signal, my XP will reboot.

38.1 comes and goes here in Nashua, momentary drop-outs some times several per minute. Definately not watchable as-is. (Major bummer, was ready to order a SIR-T165 and JVC D-VHS recorder so I could get Enterprise when it goes HD...)

I'm using a Sony HD-100 (mostly 95-98 on signal meter but occasional complete drop-off on meter). I have one large RS UHF antenna on the roof pointing SE, and another in the attic pointing NE (for NH PBS). ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS all strong out of Boston.

Funny thing... signal meter shows lower signal on some other stations despite seeming to hold them better... multipath or some other interference?

-- Doug

38-1 100% on the signal meter of the mits srhd5, but picture was all snow, it would flicker a few times before going to snow.

No signal was available on the zenith 1080 in the other room, in other words I would manual scan for either 38 or 39 and it said no digital signal available,

Rooftop antenna, Norwell ma (about 23mi from the tower as the crow flies)

All the other digital channels come in at full strength pretty reliably.

80-90% signal last night around 10 pm in Melrose with my Dish 6000 and integrated Mits but no picture. I have a channel master 3021 and can pick up all the other locals without a problem.

Is anyone with a Panny tuner receiving WGBH-DT on 19? Others with different STBs seem to be receiving this, but I haven't been able to on my TU-HDS20 since 43 (which I was receiving) went off the air several weeks ago. I re-scanned this AM thinking it was possibly due to old PSIP info causing a problem, but still nothing. Prior to 43 going live I was receiving 19 perfectly fine.

No big deal since there's no HD and I get WENH-DT when desired, just curious if anyone else with similar equipment is having the same problem.

Bob Hess,

Super signal here in Lexington on WSBK-DT. Here are my signal strength readings for you, using my dual Blakes for upper UHF and 28 db Winegard preamp. Readings are taken at my tuner and go through 2 splitters:

19 +17 DBmv
20 +20 DBmv
30 +16 DBmv
31 +3 DBmv
39 +9 DBmv
42 +5 DBmv

Readings taken with minimized multipath, not max signal.

Only one problem, as others have mentioned, your PSIP is faulty.

Using my old defective Panasonic TU-DST50 with the latest code (the one that can't even decode the right audio on channel 19), and PSIP mapping disabled, I get a great picture and sound. No problems with the picture except the 14x9 crap.

With my newer finnicky Samsung SIR-T150 the station is unwatchable. I have seen it work for maybe 3 minutes steady at most. Other times it is just blanked for 3 minutes. Most of the time it oscillates maybe on for 1/2 second and off for 4-10 seconds and repeats.

I have to always tune to channel 39 to get it. Sometimes it maps to 39, other times to 38-1, and once I even saw it map to 2-1! But it keeps going in and out. Samsung lock light is steady green, and signal is like others on its meter, around half scale.

Seems like your PSIP data either has conflicting information in 2 different tables, or else the table update rate is too slow for this tuner.

At least I can switch in my Panasonic to watch Enterprise for now, but I was just getting used to watching tv again with only 1 tuner!

WSBK-DT

5:00 this morning had a signal strength of 40% on my Samsung T151 w' modified RS Bowtie in south Middleboro. T151 locks in on 38.1 although picture drops out. I can recieve all other DT stations with less signal strength at times and no drop outs.

Originally posted by Doug G
Is anyone with a Panny tuner receiving WGBH-DT on 19? Others with different STBs seem to be receiving this, but I haven't been able to on my TU-HDS20 since 43 (which I was receiving) went off the air several weeks ago. I re-scanned this AM thinking it was possibly due to old PSIP info causing a problem, but still nothing. Prior to 43 going live I was receiving 19 perfectly fine.

No big deal since there's no HD and I get WENH-DT when desired, just curious if anyone else with similar equipment is having the same problem.

I get 19 with my Panasonic TU-DST50 tuners. Both get the video, but the one with newer code, only gets SAP audio.

Thanks for all of the reports. We are using a new generation Harris ATSC encoder on WSBK which is completely different from the unit we use on WBZ. It is a learning process. We have made some changes. Let me know the results.

Bob

WSBK-DT

I'm receiving you at a solid 40 on my DTC-100 (integrated into my F38310) in Hollis, NH with an attic mounted antenna/preamp. Very solid signal, no multipath or dropouts that I could see. Unfortunately the content last night was not to my liking so I didn't stay on the channel very long.

I even got program guide information!

I noticed some vertical "lines"/video noise. Still, very nice picture.

Craig

Bob hess:

im recieving 38 digital fine now. It was breaking up for me last night like others. Now it seems to be working. Good picture and sound. Im in Amherst(near nashua nh) and have a attic mounted antenna. TUhs20 so i dont have a signal to report. Thanks alot for all your efforts over @ wbz.

-nate

Thanks Craig for confirming of the vertical lines/noise, I have a 94 signal and get lines/noise very clearly even on my old mits set with my DTC-100 and my HiPix.

HD gave Shipmates a new dimension :)

Jim

Bob,
Receiving about 80% on my indoor Winegard antenna using Zenith STB---down here in Warwick, RI.
*I was only confused by the fact that I was getting 2 digital channels--- 39-0 & 39-1 --- with no signal on 39-0 and a good picture on 39-1 (maybe this is peculiar to the Zenith?). I know the channel mapping is only temporary.

Keith

Bob,
My 6000 is showing 68-70% on 38-01 from Hampton NH with an indoor RS bowtie with CM0747 amp. This mornings signal is solid compared to last nights break ups and switching between 39-01 and 38-01 that most everyone seem to be getting. I assume you are at 14x9. Are you planning to leave it that way or are you just experimenting.

I know its been said before, but thanks for all your hard work and keeping us updated.

Ron

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Thanks for all of the reports. We are using a new generation Harris ATSC encoder on WSBK which is completely different from the unit we use on WBZ. It is a learning process. We have made some changes. Let me know the results.

Bob

The problem seems to be resolved on my Sony 34xbr2.

I received strong (>80% on DTC-100 with a RS bowtie indoor) sginal on 38-1 last night. No breakups.

Originally posted by MikeD
The problem seems to be resolved on my Sony 34xbr2.

38.1 just got remapped to 39.1. Also lost program info.

Different subject and off-topic:

We have a NEC CRT projector system at WBZ. Is anyone aware of a Boston area company that can work on these projectors?

Bob

Originally posted by MikeD
38.1 just got remapped to 39.1. Also lost program info.

Our PSIP was temporarily off line while being reconfigured. We are still in the "testing" process.

Bob

Coming in fine now.

Like everyone else here... "eek!" on the 14x9. But I'm excited to see WSBK online, at long last. Just waiting for 56 now and we're going to have all the major channels digital... Puts a big smile on my face! :)

Thanks for keeping us informed, Bob.

Bob,

WSBK-DT 39 now coming in rock solid in South Plymouth and remapping to 38.1 without problem on Panny TU-HDS20 and Sammy SIR-T150 boxes. Guess that percussive maintenance on your new ATSC encoder did the trick!

FYI, I am 50 air miles from the tower in a difficult analog reception area, using roof-mounted CM 4248 antenna, CM 7775 preamp, and CM 9521 rotor. Digital transmission is a godsend to those of us on the fringe.

Originally posted by dhg
Bob,

WSBK-DT 39 now coming in rock solid in South Plymouth and remapping to 38.1 without problem on Panny TU-HDS20 and Sammy SIR-T150 boxes. Guess that percussive maintenance on your new ATSC encoder did the trick!

FYI, I am 50 air miles from the tower in a difficult analog reception area, using roof-mounted CM 4248 antenna, CM 7775 preamp, and CM 9521 rotor. Digital transmission is a godsend to those of us on the fringe.
Your area is one of the worst analog coverage areas in the Boston area. Propagation studies have shown little to no signal in that area. I really appreciate the information, especially the antenna type. How high is the antenna?

Bob

last night, my sony34xbr2 in southern NH was receiving 38.1/39.1 intermittently. the 14:9 & 1080i quality are looking great considering ntsc source - when the picture is there. looks to me like the PSIP bug is same as what fox25 has - sony tells me its a bug in s/w rev of psip encoder used especially by fox affiliates. the picture is watchable for minutes at a time before a flurry of psip-induced problems occur, forcing me to continuously press the 'exit' button of tv remote, as it tells me ad nauseum "39 is available on 38", "38 is available on 39" .


i like 14:9 cropping of the 4:3 -> upscale to 1080i via faroudja.

at noon currently 38.1 gives about 55% signal strength on the sony. i didn't watch for long, but did not see the 38.1/39.1 psip weirdness .

Bob I get 38-1,39-1 on my Hi-pix card, and my RCA 38310 39-1,
but my Zenith IQB64W10W (the one with the built in HD tuner) I get nothing. I do A channel search and still nothing. I enter it manually and the signal meter is 85% but no picture.

We have a NEC CRT projector system at WBZ. Is anyone aware of a Boston area company that can work on these projectors?

Hi Bob,

Ask for Gary at Hi-Rez Projections in Ashland - 508 881-9959. They do a great job with Sony pjs and specialize in Electrohome Marquees. They may work on NEC as well. If not, Gary can probably tell you who in the area does.

Mark H

Originally posted by Delicious2
Hi Bob,

Ask for Gary at Hi-Rez Projections in Ashland - 508 881-9959. They do a great job with Sony pjs and specialize in Electrohome Marquees. They may work on NEC as well. If not, Gary can probably tell you who in the area does.

Mark H
Thanks, Mark.

- Bob

radco, clear and rescan your HiPix stations and your should be fine.

Jim

Bob,

All looks good on 38-1 in Bridgewater. Indoor antenna and Tosh DST3000.

Thanks,
Dave

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Your area is one of the worst analog coverage areas in the Boston area. Propagation studies have shown little to no signal in that area. I really appreciate the information, especially the antenna type. How high is the antenna?

Bob

My DTV antenna is about 25 feet above ground level, with a 7' mast on top of a small 2-story house. Unfortunately it must be aimed through a stand of 40' oak trees on abutting property. In addition to the CM 4248, which is UHF only and used only for OTA DTV reception, I also have an aging CM 3678 Crossfire with preamp on the other end of the roof, about the same height, for VHF/UHF/FM reception. It is appreciably poorer for DTV reception than the 4248 and frankly doesn't do a very good job on anything else, either.

The South Plymouth/Cedarville/Sagamore area is apparently the Bermuda triangle of radio/TV reception. 2-way radios don't work down here (but cell phones are fine), FM reception is generally poor (WCRB-FM and WBUR-FM are weak but WGBH-FM/Blue Hill is very good), VHF reception varies from acceptable to poor, and UHF analog reception on either antenna is mediocre to godawful.

Providence TV stations come in much better than Boston, even though the antennas are pointed toward Boston and the RI stations are 90 degrees off axis. My personal theory, which probably has no basis in scientific fact, is that the Sagamore bridge acts as a huge antenna and sucks all the RF energy out of the ether for a 5-mile radius. ;-)

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Thanks for all of the reports. We are using a new generation Harris ATSC encoder on WSBK which is completely different from the unit we use on WBZ. It is a learning process. We have made some changes. Let me know the results.

Bob,

Coming in nicely now on my Mitsubishi integrated RPTV. One odd thing:

I end up with 38.0 and 38.1. If I start at 2.1, and channel down, I end up at 38.1 with a picture. Channel down again, and I'm at 38.0 with the same program I had on 38.1. If I try to channel up, it just stays at 38.0 (expected to go back to 38.1). Channel down goes to 25.1 (as expected).

Thanks for all the hard work by you and the crew.

Bob...up and running in Taunton on my Hughes E-86 with a slightly stronger signal than WFXT (about 40-45% using a RS ST amp. antenna). Also have a DTC-100 connected to the same antenna and get about 10% less signal, with no picture below 30%.

I found an antenna position that gets 39 well enough (58, vs 65 for fox and 100 for the others), but now I can't get analog channels well - guess I need to get a STB for my NTSC TV (and play around with the rotation if I want to watch 56).

Chronicle looked awesome in HD tonight! Congrats to them for producing it in this format.

-JR

Bob,

Still having problems with WSBK-DT in Southern NH (Salem, to be precise). If I disable channel mapping on my Panny DST-51 I can receive 39.1 perfectly - clear picture, no dropouts. If I enable channel mapping it tries to move to 38.1, loses the signal, and after a few seconds comes back as 39.1 and then starts the cycle over again - same as last night.

I receive all the other Boston stations fine, with the exception of the audio problems on 2.1/2.2 that all DST50/51 owners seem to have. Anyone ever get Panasonic to fix that correctly? Like many I sent my box in for repair but it came back no different.

Mr. Hess

Congrats !!! looks like all is well with 38.1 - 98% signal on hd-100 way down here in Falmouth on the cape. The best part is - NO dropouts !!!

comming in good in Norwell, on both mitsSRHD5 and Zenith DTV1080

I get the boston stations from ExpressVu. Are you getting ABC in HD tonight? This is the second night with no HD from boston ABC - Alias and the Practice were SD on sunday. Anyone in Boston know what's up with your ABC affiliate?

I got some email from the Director of Engineering at WCVB (Ch 5), and he said:

Our inability to air HD material encoded at ABC is due to a failure on Sunday night with their satellite equipment.

They were hoping to have it fixed tonight. I just checked "Life with Bonnie" and it appears to be in HD.

-jeff

I just watched Buffy in 14x9, I feel that it is a great compromise. I have a 4x3 television, so a 4x3 1080i signal is a pain (lose the top and bottom to squeeze to a 16x9 frame, then lose the sides to get a 4x3 signal there).

Enterprise is shot in 16x9, would it really be a problem to upconvert it to 16x9?

Eh, I've been looking for reasons to stop watching Enterprise... if it were to look right, I might have to start hosting it at my place (my friend took over geek night when he got the big screen TV).

Alex

Originally posted by scorpion
Enterprise is shot in 16x9, would it really be a problem to upconvert it to 16x9?

I was going to ask the same question...

Bob,

Any chance 16x9 content like Enterprise could be zoomed (proportionally) during the upconversion? (please, please, please... :D ) Granted it creates the same "flip the switch" problem so that may make it impractical, but I bet there are a lot of us that would really appreciate it...

As to reception... I was excited to read the posts this morning that PSIP was to blame for many of the problems... Checked it out tonight and didn't see a single drop-out!!! (Sony HD-100, signal 95-98, Nashua, rooftop UHF antenna from RS)

Thanks!!

-- Doug

Bob,

Good reception for me as well tonight! 51-58 (same as last night, but no snow!). I also see 38-0 in my list, can't seem to hide it from all channels. I don't feel like trying a rescan yet.

As of 11:00 PM:

channel strength
19 72 - 79
20 100 - 100
23 100 - 100
30 100 - 100
31 65 - 72
39 51 - 58
42 65 - 72
59 0 - 24 Antenna is pointed in the opposite direction

Toshiba DST-3000, CM 4228, CM7775, antenna fixed in the attic (I have a 2nd one with a CM rotor to put on the roof eventually with a Wineguard UHF-only pre-amp).

Also receiving on MyHD PC card. I have set it up to record Enterprise and The Twighlight Zone tomorrow.

Can't wait to see Enterprise tomorrow. I 2nd the vote for a pure upconvert (zoom, no stretch, to preserve the 16:9).

Is The Twighlight Zone also going to be 16:9?

Congratulations for going live!

-Dave :)

p.s. Just saw some breakup during Frasier (11:20PM)

p.p.s. And - congratulations on being in the set of stations that pushed on-air DTV to over 500!

http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/Pressrel/releases/6002.htm

UPN in Sutton !!! I get about a 55 on the strength meter of my SIR-T150 with a medium RS rooftop antenna and preamp. This is about the same signal strength I get for all Boston stations. No Dropouts last night.

Bob Hess,

Thanks for the quick fix. My Samsung tuner is happy. No flaws last night, and channel 39 comes in better than 42.

Now if only Panasonic would fix their defect in the 50 I'd have all my DTV equipment working on all channels.

Got WSBK in digital last night in Windham NH. Megawave indoor window antenna. Dish 6000 on a Sony VW-10ht projector. Only watched for a few minutes signal strength a little low but no break ups. Is Buffy always that dark? Didn't watch too much but the image seemed very dark to me.

How long do we have to wait for WLVI and Smallville in HD now?

Did not receive 38.1 last night. Signal strength was 30-40% on Samsung T151 with an indoor RS double bowtie in south Middleboro. Happy to see I was able to receive 38.1 this morning for about 15 minutes. Signal strength 30-40% while receiving 14X9 signal looked good. Dropout occured while signal strength was still at 30-40% at 5:15am. I have no problems receiving all other DT stations with > 25% signal strength.

Just wanted to provide feedback. Keep up the great job Bob.

Originally posted by bhodson
How long do we have to wait for WLVI and Smallville in HD now?

I sent an email to WLVI a few days ago. I got a response (which is on my home system and I'm at work, so I don't have all the details with me right now) stating that they were getting close and would send me email when they're up. IIRC, he said late October or early November.

Originally posted by jeffw
I got some email from the Director of Engineering at WCVB (Ch 5), and he said:

Our inability to air HD material encoded at ABC is due to a failure on Sunday night with their satellite equipment.

They were hoping to have it fixed tonight. I just checked "Life with Bonnie" and it appears to be in HD.

-jeff

Thanks. The 8-9pm hour wasn't HD on WCVB thru ExpressVu. I didn't watch after 9pm - maybe they got it in HD then.

Sir Robert...

You're getting close to pleasing all STBs! (I'm in Framingham, just over the hill that overlooks the Needham towers, so no problem with signal strength, and only a moderate problem with multipath.)

WSBK-DT reception was very good on Unity Motion 1000, Integra 815ST, Dish 6000, RCA DTC-100 as well as the Panny DST-50 with the updated firmware (i.e. the version that can disable channel mapping).

However (on the same antenna/rotor), I have a Panny DST-50 with the original firmware [the version that didn't have audio problems with WGBX]. It just doesn't want to lock-in, and looks like it is having problems understanding the PSIP mapping. When I select channel 39, it goes to WSBK-DT 38-1 which is fine. But then I only get some flickering and a black screen. It also "ties it up" somewhat -- when I try to tune to a different channel, it puts me right back on 38-1. So I repeat, and when I get to the new channel, it takes quite a while to lock onto it. Interesting, eh?

Bob Hess - All well in Andover with WSBK-DT on 38-1 last night on my Panny TU-HDS20.

Thanks to all for the comments. We're looking at every comment and investigating the remaining problems. Big thanks to Bob Yankowitz, our RF Systems Manager, who is doing all of the real work......and he lurks here in the background.

As for me, my DTC-100 (one of the first off of the line with original software) fails to recognize channel 38 analog. Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

- Bob

Bob, When does the WB go on line, and what channel will it be?
Thanks!

Bob Hess...Now that all the bugs have been worked out--2 questions.

1. When will the AR be adjusted to 4:3?
2. When will we see any 16:9 1080i programming?

Originally posted by Bob Hess


As for me, my DTC-100 (one of the first off of the line with original software) fails to recognize channel 38 analog. Things that make you go hmmmmm.....

- Bob

F.Y.I. ... My DTC-100 does recognise WSBK-analog. No problems on either my Hughes or RCA receivers!

Bob and Bob...keep up the great work. I'm glad that we can help get 'SBK optimized. Now if only other stations in the area would frequent this forum.. I wish they'd realize the valuable feedback that we can provide to them here.
-JR

Originally posted by radco
Bob, When does the WB go on line, and what channel will it be?
Thanks!
WB is not one of our stations. I am assuming it will be 56.1.

- Bob

Originally posted by Benji
Bob Hess...Now that all the bugs have been worked out--2 questions.

1. When will the AR be adjusted to 4:3?
2. When will we see any 16:9 1080i programming?
1. We are considering keeping WSBK on a 14x9 aspect ratio. No decisions, just thinking about it - at least until we begin airing some real HD widescreen content. At a recent meeting with retailers, several commented that a wider aspect ratio would help them demo sets during business hours when very few stations are broadcasting HD. The more sets out there, the more wide screen content.

2. UPN is not offering anything in HD yet. We hope to be able to air some HD content, locally, within a few months.

- Bob

Hello to all. Bob, I'm getting all channels down here in Westport Ma. except 2 and 44 which are 2.1 and 2.2. The picture is alright,but the audio is sometimes something else. I tried changimg the SAP but it doesn't help.I also am getting 38 fine, except its on 39. I'm using a Panny tudst 51a.

One other thing. Is anyone else getting a signal lock on 34. I am getting it with Dolby Digital locking on my Denon receiver but no picture or audio.The panasonic just displays the no channel on the screen.

Thanks to all

Retailers should run last night's Chronicle from WCVB in a loop. For those who didn't catch the show, it was a documentary about the New England fall foliage shot in HD. Breathtaking! Some of the best HD I've ever seen AND it was produced locally.

-JR

Judging from the comments, I'm guessing that I'm in the minority here but I actually sorta like the 14x9 format and think that it offers an acceptable compromise. It looked a bit strange at first because it didn't quite look like 16x9 (I failed to recognize the AR), but doesn't cause the picture to look too distorted (to me). I can understand why retailers prefer the semi-WS format.

just my $.02
mike

BTW- 38.1 signal look great in Ashland (SIR-150 v1.8), however I think that the Samsung is picky about how PSIP information is encoded as it get relatively frequent remappings of, say, 7-1 to 42-1 (and back to 7-1)....

Ditto on the 14x9, anyone with a 4x3 TV, what were you thinking

After doing a full rescan I now get slightly different - but no better - results. On my Panny DST-51 if channel mapping is off all works fine. If channel mapping is on, then if I go to either 38 directly or go to 39.1 and let it switch, I get a blank screen on 38.1. A "recall" shows me the station call letters and that it is in 1080-i, so I am getting a signal, but there is no audio or video.

yes im sure some people with 16x9 tvs will be mad at me but i like the 14x9 too.

i have a questoin for anyone with a panny tuhds20, are you getting a program guide? because i dont get one yet, its not a big deal but it would be nice.

thanks for all the work again bob^2

-nate

My DTC-100 gets 38 analog fine and 38.1, I am disappointed in the 14x9 format as of today(it crops off too much of the image), but as of tommorrow when my new Samsung 507 comes in, who knows. I like the way WBZ is done, can't we just put it that way?

Is the vertical line/noise issue being addressed Bob, I know it is not just me, both my tuners have it and when I was at Tweeter yesterday, I say it on a Sony 34XBR2 with internal HD tuner, so it seems like there is a interference/noise issue still there.

Thanks to EVERYONE at WSBK for getting this thing up and going on a timely manner!

Jim

Bob...time for my .02 cents worth. Have to disagree with store owners and mgrs. who think 14:9 blurvision will sell more HDTVs. The only advantage I can see is less noticable burn-in from larger sidebars. I would think prospective customers are looking for that crystal, clear 1080i image and will be severely dissappointed when they see 480i cropped to fit the screen. Even 480i in a 4:3 image looks 1000% better than in a 14:9 stretched and crop image. Again, just my .02 cents. However, I would like to join everyone else in thanking you guys for all you have done for digital and HD television. You are far and away the pacesetters in the Hub.

Here in Framingham I'm getting a strong 82 on 39.1 on my DTC-100 with 40b software. Using a medium size RS yagi strapped to the chimney about 30 feet up. 42 is also at 82 this afternoon.

Mark H

38.1 was rock solid last night for me in southern NH. no dropouts, not even from aircraft multipath. depending on
weather pattern, the flight path may or may not be
in the "multipath zone" to interfere with my DTV picture.

anyway, maybe i'll start watching buffy now. :)

i'd like to reiterate my vote in favor of 14:9/"blurvision".
so far i think upconverting 4:3 ntsc to 14:9 HD is a good tradeoff.

and i think that the letterboxed/windowboxed _enterprise_ will look great in 14:9 - looking forward to it, and hoping there are some decontamination scenes featuring my favorite vulcan.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
WB is not one of our stations. I am assuming it will be 56.1.

- Bob

Hi All ...

TitanTV.com lists WLVI-DT on channel 41-1 (most likely to be remapped to 56-1 as Bob says) .... also, they have it slated to go "on air" on October 20th ..... crossing my fingers!!!

Originally posted by alczervik2
i have a questoin for anyone with a panny tuhds20, are you getting a program guide? because i dont get one yet, its not a big deal but it would be nice.

Nate - My understanding and experience is that the program guide (among other features) is not available in "local" tuning mode but only in "satellite" mode. I believe the reason for this is that the guide info even for the local stations comes from DirecTV. This same thing also applies to the "favorites" menu which is a bummer since I'd love to be able to omit the useless 7-2 channel from my lineup.

Anyway, not sure how useful it would be since I don't think anyone is broadcasting local program info at this time. (Your INFO banner should say "Program Description not available" for each DTV station you tune.) But if you've got your box in sat mode the program guide info for the analog equivalents should pretty much mirror the digital programming as well.

Hope this helps.

Bob, here is a signal quality report from Tewksbury.
STB is a RCA DTC-100 with ver. AO5.10 firmware.
antenna 14db gain.
line loss about 4 db.

ch 39 is a solid 94 w/no PSIP problems ch 38 is tuneable.

ch 19 88
ch 20 94
ch 23 94
ch 30 88
ch 31 88
ch 42 82
ch 43 94 when it is on
ch 57 76 has audio syncing problem, no audio, delayed lock on audio, popping audio.
ch 59 88

all signals are solid and stable.

Pat

Originally posted by Bob Hess
1. We are considering keeping WSBK on a 14x9 aspect ratio. No decisions, just thinking about it - at least until we begin airing some real HD widescreen content. At a recent meeting with retailers, several commented that a wider aspect ratio would help them demo sets during business hours when very few stations are broadcasting HD. The more sets out there, the more wide screen content.

2. UPN is not offering anything in HD yet. We hope to be able to air some HD content, locally, within a few months.

- Bob

It appears the 14:9 doesn't do any stretching, just lopping of some of the top and bottom of a 4:3 picture. I prefer it (only until HD is really available). With the overscan of my Toshiba 40H80, WS content almost fills the screen. My MyHD PC card shows the image non-overscanned so I can see what the 14:9 is really doing (leaving narrow bars on the left and right).

-Dave

I like the 14:9 crop that I saw tonight. Also, did anyone notice any analog type noise during Enterprise? I saw slightly diaganol mostly veritcal lines scrolling from left to right during most of the program. None of the other channels had it, so I assumed it was in the digital signal. Is there an analog stage in the upconvert where noise like that might sneak in?

I assumed the 14:9 was also stretching. If it's just zooming, I can deal with that. I've watched a little, and it did look OK. I'd still prefer a plain old 4x3 signal like the other OTA channels. Plus it still has small black bars on the side, so it's not as if 14:9 is eliminating burn-in issue, though that's not something I'm personally overconcerned with.

Also, would't the retailers be a lot better off showing a good DVD and saying how much better HD looks than it? I mean, no offense, but neither a 4:3 or 14:9 upconvert exactally show off a great signal, regardless of the size... GIGO, ya know?

Like I said before though, really great that it's on the air now, and that you're hoping to do some local HD stuff. Plus I get Jeopardy in the afternoon now (and the 14:9 is cropping off any of the questions either. Heh. :))

I am defiantley seeing analog noise (vertical scrolling bars) across the picture. I see analog noise/interference on ABC upconvert (if memory serves) sometimes too (though I know Bob isn't responsible for that; just an observation)

Originally posted by Doug G
Nate - My understanding and experience is that the program guide (among other features) is not available in "local" tuning mode but only in "satellite" mode. I believe the reason for this is that the guide info even for the local stations comes from DirecTV. This same thing also applies to the "favorites" menu which is a bummer since I'd love to be able to omit the useless 7-2 channel from my lineup.

Anyway, not sure how useful it would be since I don't think anyone is broadcasting local program info at this time. (Your INFO banner should say "Program Description not available" for each DTV station you tune.) But if you've got your box in sat mode the program guide info for the analog equivalents should pretty much mirror the digital programming as well.

Hope this helps.

ok that makes sense. I can use the analog staoins for programming info. thanks

-nate

I had a couple dropouts during Enterprise, more during The Twilight Zone. Everytime I checked signal strength was 51-58.

I also saw some slightly diagonal striping (faint, but noticible). I assumed that it was an analog network feed being upconverted to HD.

-Dave

I was wondering if anyone else out there is having trouble getting channel 38 digital signal. I have a DST 3000 that I have scaned several times and still have not been able to pick up a picture. I have a feeling that it is the box which I am begining to believe is a piece of junk.

14x9 :mad:

We went thru this a year ago or so and my opinion still stands. If you want the picture mucked with, watch the analog version and stretch it yourself.

Give us the OAR please. I don't like seeing the top chopped off.

Also noticed the noise in the video. I ended up watching the Directv Local feed which was clear .

Originally posted by Steve Richards
14x9 :mad:

We went thru this a year ago or so and my opinion still stands. If you want the picture mucked with, watch the analog version and stretch it yourself.

Give us the OAR please. I don't like seeing the top chopped off.

Also noticed the noise in the video. I ended up watching the Directv Local feed which was clear .

Bob Hess...please take notice. The #'s of us '4:3' viewers are starting to grow. I have a 32" Samsung 4:3 that the stretched version of WSBK-DT doesn't look all that bad on, but on my 16:9 65" Mits, it's unwatchable. I know it is just an experiment, but if TV stores want to fill out their floor displays, they'd do them more justice just showing a wide screen DVD in the absence of true HD programming.

the zooming to 14:9 seemed quite optimal for _enterprise_ last night. i did notice some vertical/diagonal analog-looking noise in the picture for the whole show.

for a while i watched side-by-side views of 38/analog
and 38.1 . :) the 38.1 image shoed more image
at the edges of the screen, presumably from "no overscan"
or less overscan. i don't know if there is overscan in the
analog channel window
when my tv is in picture-side-by-side-with-picture mode. will have to RTFM for that.

i see multiple people referring to the "stretch" for wsbk-dt - imho the 14:9 is resulting solely from a linear zoom, not from any sort of stretching. semantics... :)

note that the top of the 14:9 zoomed _enterprise_ image
*was not chopped off*. the whole image was there in 14:9 mode. i like 14:9 for 4:3 source material but i like it even better for 16:9 material windowboxed into a 4:3 . try explaining that - 3 aspect ratios for one image - to a non-videogeek!

Originally posted by Bill Slack
I assumed the 14:9 was also stretching. If it's just zooming, I can deal with that. I've watched a little, and it did look OK. I'd still prefer a plain old 4x3 signal like the other OTA channels. Plus it still has small black bars on the side, so it's not as if 14:9 is eliminating burn-in issue, though that's not something I'm personally overconcerned with.

Also, would't the retailers be a lot better off showing a good DVD and saying how much better HD looks than it? I mean, no offense, but neither a 4:3 or 14:9 upconvert exactally show off a great signal, regardless of the size... GIGO, ya know?

Like I said before though, really great that it's on the air now, and that you're hoping to do some local HD stuff. Plus I get Jeopardy in the afternoon now (and the 14:9 is cropping off any of the questions either. Heh. :))

I am defiantley seeing analog noise (vertical scrolling bars) across the picture. I see analog noise/interference on ABC upconvert (if memory serves) sometimes too (though I know Bob isn't responsible for that; just an observation)
1. We would never allow a "stretched" picture on WBZ or WSBK. 14x9 zooms and crops. We did this to get some response and appreciate all comments. We may very well go back to an unaltered 4x3 picture in a 16x9 frame.

2. The retailers I talked to want to have over-the-air local available in their stores. At least something to tune to if a customer wants to see local.

3. The analog noise problem is real. I see it on my HD set. Unacceptable! We will take care of it.

- Bob

Originally posted by Doug G
Nate - My understanding and experience is that the program guide (among other features) is not available in "local" tuning mode but only in "satellite" mode. I believe the reason for this is that the guide info even for the local stations comes from DirecTV. This same thing also applies to the "favorites" menu which is a bummer since I'd love to be able to omit the useless 7-2 channel from my lineup.

Anyway, not sure how useful it would be since I don't think anyone is broadcasting local program info at this time. (Your INFO banner should say "Program Description not available" for each DTV station you tune.) But if you've got your box in sat mode the program guide info for the analog equivalents should pretty much mirror the digital programming as well.

Hope this helps.

Doug,

I'm not really sure this is correct, I think it is more a function of the SAT/OTA receiver. My Mits HD5 doesn't toggle between modes but the RCA and Hughes (cheap) units do.

The Mits has one mode and displays the program guide information for all WBZ channels. For example when I show all channels I get:

4 BN4 Satelite
4 WBZ OTA-Analog
4 -1 WBZDT OTA-DTV

with WSBK I get:

38 BN38 Satelite Guide works
38 WSBK OTA-Analog Guide works
38-0 WSBK-TV OTA-??? No Picture/No Guide Info
38-1 WSBK-DT OTA-DTV No Guide Info

Dave

I meant to say 'my cheap (non DTV) RCA and Hughes units' - no offense intended.

If I have to watch Enterprise in a 4x3 frame (with a 16x9 image letterboxed version), I'm done. It's unviewable, and I'll look like an ass to the fiancee, so that's that.

The only option would be to set the STB to tell it that I have a 16x9 television, then zoom it. Quite frankly, the show isn't good enough to jump through that many hoops.

Why do I have a 4x3 television?

When I bought the TV last year, the only widescreen content was DVDs. Additionally, the cost of the television was about $100 LESS than a widescreen TV with the SAME width and less height. I got more screen for less money, and the same width. Additionally, space limited people have limited widths for their televisions, not limited height. It is always easier to go taller than wider. The widescreen "big screen" makes sense, theaters are going to be wide. Living rooms aren't the 16x9 ratio for home televisions was a dumb mistake. It's REALLY a shame that 4x3 1080i and 720p resolutions weren't in the specs, but oh well, its over.

When I watch most television, it's 4x3. The HD content has just become real for me lately. Any programming off my Replay is going to be 4x3. My Gamecube is almost always 4x3. Television will be heavily 4x3 for another 2 years. If you are width limited, getting a widescreen television, where half your program is barndoored is unacceptable.

Bob, normal people outnumber self-declared videophiles (who the hell is worried about artistic OAR for the news?!?!?!), and if you want them to get into HDTV, they need real signals. They don't like having parts of their screen black.

My parents watch everything in stretch mode. The store panicked them about burn-in, and they yelled at me for watching a movie not stretched.

If they knew what they were getting into, they wouldn't have gone HDTV. You're going to kill adoption if you and the studios cave into the videophiles.

Get people on the format, then you'll get more and more widescreen (and later HDTV) content. Please "videophiles" and they'll have only themselves to blame (which they won't do) when HDTV dies in 4 years.

Alex

Originally posted by Bob Hess
1. We would never allow a "stretched" picture on WBZ or WSBK. 14x9 zooms and crops. We did this to get some response and appreciate all comments. We may very well go back to an unaltered 4x3 picture in a 16x9 frame.

2. The retailers I talked to want to have over-the-air local available in their stores. At least something to tune to if a customer wants to see local.

3. The analog noise problem is real. I see it on my HD set. Unacceptable! We will take care of it.

- Bob

Sounds great! Thanks for the clarification.

Since Enterprise is the main thing I watch on UPN this works fine for me. If I watched much non-letterboxed content I would probably feel differently...

-- Doug

Thanks Bob, what you stated is what we would like and atleast we know that WSBK is going in the right direction.

Jim

Thanks for clarifying, Bob. Don't mean to harp on the 14x9 thing, but am just happy to understand exactally what you're doing and where you're coming from...

steverobertson:

I have the same box as you and receive WSBK without a problem. Did you clear the list first and then just manually try adding channel 39 (which then picks up and maps 38-0 and 38-1 -- and you then have to go re-select the other digital channels, which are still mapped. It's a pretty clunky interface, as you may have noticed...)? That worked for me. WSBK is lower power than a lot fo the stations, but I don't think that would be much of a problem in Walpole with any sort of decent antenna.

Bill, I do not think that WSBK is lower power then a lot of the stations because using the same STB as you(DTC-100) I get 94 signal strength from 60+ miles away, stronger then ANY boston station.

Jim

Originally posted by D_Doherty
I'm not really sure this is correct, I think it is more a function of the SAT/OTA receiver. My Mits HD5 doesn't toggle between modes but the RCA and Hughes (cheap) units do.

The Mits has one mode and displays the program guide information for all WBZ channels.

Dave - Based on your data, it would seem to suggest that you are receiving a sat signal as well as local OTA. This sat signal is the source for the program guide info, even for local analog OTA stations (whose content does not differ from that carried as a "local" by DirecTV.) ALL program guide info is distributed by DirecTV.

Anyway, perhaps I should have been more specific and stated that without a dish, regardless of the mode, program guide info is not available. Since I do not have DirecTV any longer, I use the box strictly for OTA HDTV. In this config, the unit won't even allow access to the guide or favorites areas.

Oh, and BTW, no offense taken. (Although, I am offended that a unit I paid $799 for just over a year ago can now be had for $248!!! Oh well, that the price to be paid for having it first, I guess....)

Early on, Bob Hess reported that WBZ operates at a power of 750,000 watts while the FCC will only authorize WSBK to go 150,000 watts.

Bill,

I haven't tried that yet. So you are saying go in and take the check mark off all the local channels then punch in 39 and then go back and check off the other ststions? I would have thought just doing a scan would have picked it up but obviously not. I have tried just punching 39 in with the other channels checked off and didn't have any luck. I will try this when I get home tonight.

Bill one other thing have you had any problem when set at 1080i and 16x9 trying to manuever around to other channels or other menue options mine is real slow and have to punch in things a few times to get it to work. When iam in the regular settings everything mves fast but not in the HDTV settings.

Thanks for your help

Originally posted by Benji
Early on, Bob Hess reported that WBZ operates at a power of 750,000 watts while the FCC will only authorize WSBK to go 150,000 watts.
WBZ = 725,000 watts
WSBK = 135,000 watts

Originally posted by Benji
Early on, Bob Hess reported that WBZ operates at a power of 750,000 watts while the FCC will only authorize WSBK to go 150,000 watts.

Bob H-

Can you give us laymen the basic rationale behind the FCC limiting one station to such a low power while others in the area transmit at much higher ERPs?? Or could you just as easily petition to increase the power at SBK-DT whenever you wanted?

Originally posted by scorpion
If I have to watch Enterprise in a 4x3 frame (with a 16x9 image letterboxed version), I'm done. It's unviewable, and I'll look like an ass to the fiancee, so that's that.

I don't get why you'd look like an ass to your fiancee. So Enterprise doesn't work out on your particular system - watch it through the satellite or through the analog station then. What do you do about shows on ABC, NBC, and CBS?

Get people on the format, then you'll get more and more widescreen (and later HDTV) content. Please "videophiles" and they'll have only themselves to blame (which they won't do) when HDTV dies in 4 years.

This doesn't quite make sense to me. Most of the HD capable display devices on the market have 16x9 screens. You aren't going to get people to buy them by broadcasting everything in 4x3 just to keep the people who elected to buy 4x3 screens happy. If everything was 4x3 to keep you happy, why would anyone bother to buy a 16x9 screen and why would you need to bother with widescreen content later on?

Originally posted by Bob Hess
WBZ = 725,000 watts
WSBK = 135,000 watts

Sorry Bob, I must have been having a "Senior Moment" when recalling what you had written. Anyways, I was only off by 25,000!

Originally posted by Doug G
Bob H-

Can you give us laymen the basic rationale behind the FCC limiting one station to such a low power while others in the area transmit at much higher ERPs?? Or could you just as easily petition to increase the power at SBK-DT whenever you wanted?
This is a very complicated issue. It isn't the simple world of analog television where a UHF television station, with few exceptions, is allowed a maximum effective radiated power of 5,000,000 watts, an analog channel 7-13 station is allowed a max of 316,000 watts and an analog channel 2-6 station is allowed a max of 100,000 watts. Years ago, the FCC assigned these maximum analog power levels based on the amount of power required to cover the same area on the three different bands. Propagation loss is much higher on UHF than on VHF, hence the much higher power level allowed.

Digital signals do not require anywhere near the amount of power an analog signal requires to cover the same area. The FCC set out to attempt to equal an analog station's coverage area when assigning the digital power. WSBK, for various reasons, operates with an analog power of 2.5 million watts - not full power. Knowing the amount of power necessary for the FCC to duplicate the analog coverage, the FCC then had to determine what effect this amount of power would have on existing co-channel/adjacent channel anaolg stations and new digital stations. If this power level interferes, the FCC reduces the power to a point where it works. That is why the power levels are all over the map. That is why WSBK is maximized at 135,000 KW.

- Bob

Thanks, Bob.

As always, informative and enlightening! Again I'd just like to reiterate what a privilige it is to have a real industry expert here in our midst...

BTW, do you think Benji would be offended if I pointed out he was actually off by 15,000? :)

Enterprise is a 16x9 show. It is broadcast in letterbox format. Taking the letterboxed 16x9 show and showing it inside a 4x3 portion is retarded. Send it in a 16x9 frame (or at least the 14x9 frame we have now) not a 4x3 frame with letterboxes inside.

My issue with the lack of a 4x3 1080i/720p signal is that they would have made the transision simpler. 4x3 shows could then be sent in a 4x3 HDTV signal. You should send programming in its format, and the set/STB should deal with it.

If we had 4x3 HD timings, you could send them in such a setting. 16x9 televisions could show them either stretched, zoomed, or with barndoors, and 4x3 televisions could show them with their full screens.

I am rather annoyed by 4x3 content in HDTV. I really wish that there was enough bandwidth to send an HDTV version AND a EDTV version. It is rather annoying that 4x3 programming is sent inside of a 16x9 frame so us 4x3 television viewers get letterboxing AND barn doors.

With a 16x9 letterboxed show, realize what we get. We get a letterboxed image, inside a barndoored view of a letterboxed section.

That's my issue.

Alex

FWIW, I'd like to say that I could use a few more watts on WSBK, I'm around Lowell, with some hills to the south and WSBK is on the fence for me, I had to tweak my antenna position by millimeters in order to get a stable signal. I get the other big Boston networks pretty much ok, just WSBK could use a little boost in my opinion ('ve already got 28dB amp on the antenna myself).

To Bob Hess,

WSBK-DT coming in very well here in Lyndeborough, NH (between Milford and Peterborough). Registering around 70-74 on the HiPix signal strength this evening, but was up as high as 82 yesterday. Antenna is a rooftop UHF yagi with a Winegard preamp.

A couple of observations on your PSIP data (I have been working on a program that decodes the PSIP information).

First of all 38.0 is listed twice in the TVCT. The second entry lists 38.0 with the wrong frequency and TSID.

TVCT:
PID = 1FFB, len = 180, source_id = 1367, version = 4, section = 0/0, protocol = 0, channels = 3
38.0 WSBK-TV Frequency = 615.2MHz, TSID = 0x0556, source_id = 1.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-TV"

38.0 WSBK-TV Frequency = 620.3MHz, TSID = 0x0557, source_id = 2.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-TV"

38.1 WSBK-DT Frequency = 620.3MHz, TSID = 0x0557, source_id = 3.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-DT"
_ PCR PID = 0011
_ Elem PID = 0011, Video
_ Elem PID = 0014, AC3 audio

Secondly there seems to be a problem with the Rating Region Table (RRT) as the CRC check fails. Looking at the raw data, it looks like it is only partially there.

_Paul

Attention Mr. Bob Hess:

Please continue the use of 14:9 A/R; it is a wonderful compromise for many of us and gives the appearance of a DVD format to my eye.

I wanted to report to you a steady WSBK-DT signal of 90% here, west of Nashoba Hill in Westford , using an 85" attic antenna and a 16dB pre-amp.
This is exceeded only by WCVB at 95% and betters your WBZ signal by some 10%.

I am seeing the same analog noise as others but am confident that you will provide the remedy.

Thank you so much for all that you do.
Sincerely,
Steve Longo

Originally posted by Jah-Wren Ryel
FWIW, I'd like to say that I could use a few more watts on WSBK, I'm around Lowell, with some hills to the south and WSBK is on the fence for me, I had to tweak my antenna position by millimeters in order to get a stable signal. I get the other big Boston networks pretty much ok, just WSBK could use a little boost in my opinion ('ve already got 28dB amp on the antenna myself).

Jah-Wren - I'm in west Andover (off River Road on the southern downslope of the merrimack valley facing NH) and I'm receiving all Boston stations fine. I'm using an attic mounted CM3021 with a Winegard 18dB medium-gain pre-amp on a CM rotator. Until I recently lowered my antenna on its mast, I had similar issues with WFXT-DT that you seem to report with WSBK-DT. I'm confident in suggesting you're experiencing multipath here. A 28dB pre-amp may be doing more harm than good. Perhaps if you give some details of your location, and antenna mounting site and config, you may receive some suggestions on how to improve your reception.

Don't feel bad, though, we've all been there at one time or another.

Alex....

Before I complain....let me make sure I understand you, are you asking for HD shows to be 4:3? Did you know that HDTV is a widescreen format? That by definition, an HDTV ready TV cannot be 4:3. This is why Sony doesn't say HDTV, they call their sets Hi-Scan instead of HDTV. Just checking before I really go on a rant about how producing 4:3 digital shows would be the biggest mistake broadcasters could ever make, and now that us early adopters are finally getting some major programming advances, ESPN included, we will finally see the public throw out their 4:3 sets. I do feel bad for anyone that bought an expensive 4:3 set recently, but that's why it is always good to do some research before making major expenditures.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SUTTONHT :


Did you know that HDTV is a widescreen format? That by definition, an HDTV ready TV cannot be 4:3. This is why Sony doesn't say HDTV, they call their sets Hi-Scan instead of HDTV.

Any Sony anamorphic 4:3 set which displays 1080i in a 16:9 " "vertically-squeezed" raster certainly qualifies as an HD set.
They call their TV's "Hi-scan" because they are HD-capable but not without first mating an outboard STB.

I just want OAR myself, I hate missing parts of the screen.

Jim

Here's another vote for OAR.....Gregg

The Sony HS series is defiantley an HD set -- but, you should know what you're getting into buying a 4:3 HD set. I tell this to all of my friends when looking at sets, and took this into account when purchasing my set (it basically made 4:3 a non-option to me when I realized how silly it could look and the fact there was no [inexpensive/simple] aspect ratio control to compensate for this.

I also noticed that Sony has started selling more "widescreen" sets and seems to be phasing out the 4:3 models. IMHO the Sony "sqeeze" is about equal to my Toshiba's "S-T-R-E-T-C-H". Maybe officially Sony 4:3 can qualify as an HDTV, but stretching and squeezing are noticeable to me on all brands, and when every show out there is 16:9 (granted-many years from now) I would like to watch without tall thin people. This is very similar to people who want to watch their 4:3 programming without short fat people. It is definitely a matter of choice...I just don't have quite enough cash...yet...to buy a new HDTV every couple of years.

Originally posted by SUTTONHT
[B IMHO the Sony "sqeeze" is about equal to my Toshiba's "S-T-R-E-T-C-H". Maybe officially Sony 4:3 can qualify as an HDTV, but stretching and squeezing are noticeable to me on all brands, and when every show out there is 16:9 (granted-many years from now) I would like to watch without tall thin people. This is very similar to people who want to watch their 4:3 programming without short fat people. [/B]

Just for clarity, the Sony "squeeze" preserves the full 1080i pixel resolution in an OAR (16:9) frame. In other words, it is a "raster-squeezer", not an "image-squeezer". It does nothing like the "S-T-R-ET-C-H" that you describe on your set; on the Sony you would not see any short fat people that didn't already exist ! The aspect ratio for 16:9 broadcasts is the same as yours .

Originally posted by Mr.H
To Bob Hess,


A couple of observations on your PSIP data (I have been working on a program that decodes the PSIP information).

First of all 38.0 is listed twice in the TVCT. The second entry lists 38.0 with the wrong frequency and TSID.

TVCT:
PID = 1FFB, len = 180, source_id = 1367, version = 4, section = 0/0, protocol = 0, channels = 3
38.0 WSBK-TV Frequency = 615.2MHz, TSID = 0x0556, source_id = 1.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-TV"

38.0 WSBK-TV Frequency = 620.3MHz, TSID = 0x0557, source_id = 2.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-TV"

38.1 WSBK-DT Frequency = 620.3MHz, TSID = 0x0557, source_id = 3.
_ Channel Name = "WSBK-DT"
_ PCR PID = 0011
_ Elem PID = 0011, Video
_ Elem PID = 0014, AC3 audio

Secondly there seems to be a problem with the Rating Region Table (RRT) as the CRC check fails. Looking at the raw data, it looks like it is only partially there.

_Paul

This double definition of 38.0 might be the reason my Panasonic
TU-DST50W STB can't make up its mind to stay with the signal. It starts out with a perfect display then goes black with 38-1 still indicated on the screen.

brandish

As of today, apparently, WGBH-DT is once again broadcasting in HD on channel 19 remapped to 2.1. The PQ is *vastly* superior to the miserable SD fare we have been receiving for the past four months or so. I have not seen any actual HD content as of yet, but they seem to be upconverting SD material to 1080i and using a "zoom and crop" 14 x9 AR. WGBX-DT is still at 2.2 and its SD PQ remains grainy and unimproved. One step at a time, I guess.

Originally posted by brandish
This double definition of 38.0 might be the reason my Panasonic
TU-DST50W STB can't make up its mind to stay with the signal. It starts out with a perfect display then goes black with 38-1 still indicated on the screen.

brandish

I am having the same results on my DST-51. Works fine on 39.1 if mapping is disabled.

Originally posted by dhg
As of today, apparently, WGBH-DT is once again broadcasting in HD on channel 19 remapped to 2.1.

Well, as soon as this new mode of operation began, I'm again receiving ch 19 after weeks of not being able to receive anything on my Panny TU-HDS20. Definitely seems like a compatibility issue with my STB and their previous config was to blame. Now if they would just boost the power and start showing some real HD...

supervision dude - as far as i know the sony does not "preserve full 1080i pixel resolution" or whatever it is you meant. as far as i know, zero consumer HDTVs show full 1080i resolution, and zero broadcasters broadcast full 1080i. about the only way to get a full 1080i resolution source is via D-theatre videotapes (as far as i know).
but i think there are zero consumer displays that can
show all that resolution. all the consumer HDTVs/HD-displays are just "partial HD" displays! the term "pixel" is not really relevant here - TV resolution is measured in lines per picture height, not pixels - if i understand correctly...

your comment seems to be about comparing 4:3 HDTVs which
do anamorphic squeeze with 16:9 TVs. i find that generally the 16:9 TVs provide a better 16:9/HD/480p picture. in particular i thought the sony 34" 16:9 TVs make a much better 16:9 picture than the xbr700, for example. but perhaps my eyes react differently than yours would...
hmm, seems like we should be talking about this on the direct-view-crt forum not the boston dtv tower forum.
and i'm sure someone better informed than i will be happy to correct any mistakes i've written here! ! :)

so for some boston dtv n ews, yes, it was nice to see 2.1 with upconverted HD and with 14:9 resolution. maybe there will be some real HD shows soon on WGBH ... i wonder if they have increased their power level too? (please?) 

Originally posted by Doug G
Well, as soon as this new mode of operation began, I'm again receiving ch 19 after weeks of not being able to receive anything on my Panny TU-HDS20. Definitely seems like a compatibility issue with my STB and their previous config was to blame. Now if they would just boost the power and start showing some real HD...

Hmm. My Panny TU-HDS20, which has software version 7.4, pulled in the previous SD/SD format of 19.1 and 19.2 OK. If your box has an older software version, you might want to get it upgraded by their service center in Elgin, IL. I had mine serviced, including the fan upgrade, without charge in June.

In regard to the new HD format of 19.1/2.1, I find that upconverted SD material in 14 x 9 AR is not centered on the screen but aligned flush right, with a wide black band on the left side. Anyone else having this problem?

In regard to the new HD format of 19.1/2.1, I find that upconverted SD material in 14 x 9 AR is not centered on the screen but aligned flush right, with a wide black band on the left side. Anyone else having this problem?


I too noticed the black bar left - picture flush right.

Originally posted by dhg
Hmm. My Panny TU-HDS20, which has software version 7.4, pulled in the previous SD/SD format of 19.1 and 19.2 OK. If your box has an older software version, you might want to get it upgraded by their service center in Elgin, IL. I had mine serviced, including the fan upgrade, without charge in June.

Been there, done that, about 9 months ago. I've got all the HW mods and I'm currently running version 8.10 (I had to bring it a friends house who had a dish for the upgrade once I found out it was available.)

Although it may be possible that since the signal seems so weak relative to other stations (for me, anyway) that I just didn't have the ol' antenna pointed the optimal direction to pull it in before.

Thanks, though. I hate those things that make you go, "Hmmmmmmm......"

Originally posted by dhg
In regard to the new HD format of 19.1/2.1, I find that upconverted SD material in 14 x 9 AR is not centered on the screen but aligned flush right, with a wide black band on the left side. Anyone else having this problem?

Toshiba 40H80 / DST-3000 - same thing, flush right, bar on left.

-Dave

Yup. On my DTC 100 the 'GBH-DT picture is most of the way to the right with a much wider band on the left, while it is centered for other DT stations. Of course, it's nice to be able to see a transmission more easily (my display doesn't directly show 480i; things have to be switched around), but some of the image expansion is weird. I don't mind cropping to 14:9, it's the squeezing and stretching that I won't watch. The "Frontier House" on last nite is listed by PBS as "wide screen SD", but was shown here as zoomed on a 4:3. Some of the scenes were pretty clearly squeezed from widescreen to 4:3 and then zoomed and cropped to 14:9. That seems like going around the barn! Here's hoping it's experimentation to see what's possible. At least broadcasting more than 480i is a start.

WGBH, we really do look forward to the excellent HD source material from PBS.

Originally posted by BGOOD
WGBH, we really do look forward to the excellent HD source material from PBS.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening. Last night's Nature program at 8:00 was supposedly telecast in HD, but what we got from our local affiliate was the parallel SD feed upconverted to 1080i in zoom and crop 14 x 9 AR. Sigh! It seems to be yet another case of the old WGBH shuffle: two steps forward and one step backward.

Anyone still receiving the 4:3 SD feed on 7-2 for WHDH-DT? The channel still appears in my line up, but blank screen only. 7-1 working fine. Did they stop broadcasting on this sub-channel and forget to turn off the ID in the PSIP stream?

Same thing here, Doug. No SD sub-channel for channel 7 since last week sometime, but the HD channel has been fine (with occasional weather outages the last few days).

While on the subject of WHDH, I get several complete video and audio dropouts of around 4 or 5 seconds every hour while watching 7-1. Doesn't seem to be weather nor season related and doesn't happen on 7-2 nor on other OTA or DirectTV HD channels. It annoys me, but drives my wife crazy! Is this the dreaded mulitpath problem? I'm in Haverhill, MA with a strong signal (80+). Toshiba DST-3000 and 34HF81, RS double-bowtie in the attic , and RS preamp.

I have the same problem with my DST 3000 not sure if it is the station or the STB but it is very annoying for me and drives my wife crazy as well.

I've had that WHDH problem for quite a while with 2 different receivers-Hughes E-86 and RCA DTC-100. I'm convinced WHDH is having a problem with its digital equipment. There are times when I get a strong signal and no picture or sound on 7-1, just like 7-2 is doing now. They haven't had their HD equipment long, only since Jan. of this year and I think they're still working out glitches.

Same problem on WHDH with an E86. I've just gotten used to it, and since the audio doesn't drop out it's just a nuisance not a killer... Thinking about it logically though, it has been almost a year, wha gives!? Do they have an email address that anyone actually reads/responds to?

It must be a problem on their end (and nothing to do with multipath) since the audio still comes through. Anyone know if it's a consistent amount of times between dropouts? I've never paid close enough attention, and only watch the Tonight Show and Hidden Hills (along with very occasional SD content.)

I have the same WHDH/wife problem as well. WHDH-DT was off the air completely for the better part of one day last week. When they came back on, 7.2 had no program content, just the carrier. The PQ on 7.1 seemed subjectively better than before (less compression?), but the wife-annoying dropouts that I had previously experienced when they were broadcasting at reduced power seem to be back again, making me think that perhaps they are once again operating at less than full power. The dropouts are appreciably worse on my Sammy SIR-T150 than on my Panny TU-HDS20, for whatever that is worth. All things considered, I suspect it would be far cheaper to trade in my T150 for a new T165 than to trade in my wife for a newer model. ;-)

I also experience these temporary video dropouts (but sound always stays on) on my panny TU-HDS20. Its definitely not reception related. I'd swear it was almost even predictable; like on 15 minute intervals or something.

But have no fear, I'm shooting off a mail to Jim Shultis the Director of Engineering for WHDH-DT to communicate these issues...

Naturally, I'll report back any response I get.

This is actually my first post to this forum although I’ve been in following the thread for some time. I've been in contact with Jim at WHDH and he told me that they have stopped multicasting with 7-2 and assigned all of the bandwidth to the primary 7-1 HD stream. For me, this has made a big difference in PQ. Leno looks better on my equipment (Samsung STIR-150 and Toshiba 57HX81 with either a RS yagi or Winegard 4 element ) than any OTA HD I've seen so far. Motion induced pixellation/block noise has been reduced to almost none existent (the ER scene in the bar last week for example). The small price I've had to pay is a (very) few more drop outs than I had before, although I think this is more a function of the way the ATSC/8VSB system handles an "all the bandwidth in one stream" situation. I for one will take the new setup anytime (although the PSIP should be updated).

- Scott

Been away for a week and it is good to see the old thread (while not the real old, old, older threads) back in action.

1 . Good to hear WHDH, a late comer but a good comer to HD, is going to the single subchannel. Thanks Scott.

2. Very glad to see 39 come on line. Showing up on more than just the MyHD card now. Note the DirectV ADVANCED PROGRAMMING GUIDE info comes via sat (not PSIP) and will be updated for Panny, Hughes, Tosh, Mits, and Zenith/new Sony STB boxes that support APG. It does mostly map over the "locals" listings, but it sure is convenient and means you don't need a "dummy" channel in your favorites.

3. The Aspect debate was raged in this forum, and in this thread many moons ago. I was floored by: Originally posted by Bob Hess
1. We are considering keeping WSBK on a 14x9 aspect ratio. No decisions, just thinking about it - at least until we begin airing some real HD widescreen content.

a. Original Aspect Ratio is important. Many people care about all of the content regardless of vertical or horizontal cropping or other forms of "blow up" are discussed. Lopping off sides is as bad as tops & bottoms and vise versa.

b. 14x9 is the worst of all worlds. It's a compromise format which does relatively little for phantom burn if contrast is set correctly. It massacres letterboxed format material that would otherwise be properly resized by newer STBs and other scalers. My 6000 scales ARs (including HD while maintaining ratio) to mutiple display settings. Some people like "whacky" stretch type settings. I say it's fine for anybody to do with a picture what they want in the privacy of their own homes, but without OAR broadcast at the start, this fundamental capability is broken.

c. All other Boston stations are "smart enough," Bob Hess' WBZ being the technology/trend leader, that OAR is important. Even hidef allergic Fox local affilate has it right. Let the customers user their displays, HTPCs or other methods to change the original picture. New TV retailers need to pick up the manuals of the sets they are trying to sell. They'll find an increasing number of sets can show a filled screen without people asking "what are these stupid '10%' black bars. I know they used to be a little wider, but now I'm missing sports scores and financial ticker tapes on certain channels!?! Doh.

d. OAR is the only answer. All the content, all the time. Let the consumer sort it out.


Tim

Anyone notice the interference on channel 5.1 tonite, I only watched it from 8pm to 8:30 but it looked like the interference that was in Push, Nevada. It occured at random on both my tuners.

Jim

Bob Hess, I would have to agree completely with Rudolpht's description of 14x9 signals. I have no idea why a station would ever choose to purposely send out a deformed picture. While scalers at the broadcaster are sure to be better than the ones in my home, let me - the viewer - worry about burn in/ black bars etc. There are some times I might want to stretch the 4:3 to fill the screen, but there are certainly times when I care enough about the content that I want OAR no matter what. 14x9 takes away this choice.

Back from vacation, I missed all the initial fits and starts from the past
week. Just turned on the tuner, added ch. 39 and off we go. Glitch-free
reception in Northborough.

The only thing good about 14x9 for me is the program content that
is in widescreen, as I then get most of the screen filled (my box won't
allow me to reformat HD signals). This was always the problem with
West Wing on 'HDH, where I could choose their HD signal with sidebars
and letterbox, or use their SD feed and use the Panny's "Cinema" mode to
expand the center of the picture to full screen (though the SD was
really grainy).

14x9 is otherwise awful, especially for things like newscasts where the
announcer's heads are constantly cut off. The solution would be to
"flip the switch" at the station for programming that's in widescreen
(until real HD is available from the source).

-Bob

Well, kudos to Jim Shultis and his team over at WHDH! After receiving my mail he had one of his techs review the PSIP table and sure enough they found and fixed the problem with the 7-2 entry. He did confirm they have been giving full bandwidth to the HD channel since late last week. I've confirmed that on my Panny TU-HDS20 channel 7-2 no longer appears in my lineup.

Also, I mentioned the problem of the video dropouts but he said their DTC-100s didn't exhibit this problem. He did mention, however, that they were awaiting new equipment (a frame synchronizer, I think) to better and more seamlessly transtition between the network and local feeds. I think he may have thought it was this discontinuity to which I was referring, so I offered more details on the dropout problem and hopefully they can investigate the problem further. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Finally, I offered Jim a pointer to this thread and suggested he drop in (or at the very least just lurk) once in a while so that he might take advantage of the plethora of information available here.

Thanks Doug.

Back to 14x9, just momentarily, Enterprise was in what I'll call University vision today. I had black bars on sides and botom creating a black. Now could I scale the image to fit full vertical height. No it would have lopped off marerial on the top. To use most set pre-sets to expand 4:3 would have choppedv off the sides. Ugly. Just plain ugly.

Tim

With 14x9, I never know what time is left in the countdown on Weakest Link, it cuts most of the digits off the screen :(


Please Bob Hess, I want my OAR, p-l-e-a-s-e :)

Jim

On my 55", 16:9 screen, Enterprise had a very small (1/2" or less) black border. I can imagine this is much more of a problem for people with 4:3 screens.

Awesome work!! Any indications from Jim S. or WHDH when they plan on increasing the their power? Right now I can only get spotty reception for channel 7-1.

Originally posted by Doug G
Well, kudos to Jim Shultis and his team over at WHDH! After receiving my mail he had one of his techs review the PSIP table and sure enough they found and fixed the problem with the 7-2 entry. He did confirm they have been giving full bandwidth to the HD channel since late last week. I've confirmed that on my Panny TU-HDS20 channel 7-2 no longer appears in my lineup.

Also, I mentioned the problem of the video dropouts but he said their DTC-100s didn't exhibit this problem. He did mention, however, that they were awaiting new equipment (a frame synchronizer, I think) to better and more seamlessly transtition between the network and local feeds. I think he may have thought it was this discontinuity to which I was referring, so I offered more details on the dropout problem and hopefully they can investigate the problem further. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Finally, I offered Jim a pointer to this thread and suggested he drop in (or at the very least just lurk) once in a while so that he might take advantage of the plethora of information available here.

I noticed on TITANTV that they show DT23 as mapping to "66-1". My
box doesn't do this (just shows "23-1"). Is TitanTV wrong, or is this
another PSIP problem in my box? Does anyone else's box do a map
correctly?

rjd,

You have some significant overscan on your monitor with bars that small. 2 sides? 3 sides?

Tim

I got the following letter from the Chief Engineer at WLVI:

Mike,
WLVI should be on the air on Ch.41 by the end of the month. I will send you an email as soon as a formal date is set. Thank you for your interest and look forward to hearing from you in the future.

He also said "We will upconvert to 1080i or pass through all WB 1080i HD programming day one."

Not too specific, but looks like they are trying.

-Mike

All this @#$%! griping about the 14x9 crop on UPN is really getting on my nerves.

Many of you are acting like you have some sort of inalianable right to OAR. GET OVER IT! The station can broadcast whatever the heck they want (so long as the folks they license the content from approve)!

If you don't like the 14x9 signal, fine. Say so. If it cuts of something you consider important, give the example, I'm sure that is feedback they would like to hear. But please no more ranting about stupidity, deformed pictures, etc.

Bob Hess has been a great asset to this forum. If people can't at least be polite about their feedback I see no reason why we should expect him to continue to participate here. I would think that this kind of nonsense is exactly what keeps others in Bob's profession away from forums like this.

Personally I am a fan of OAR, but since the only thing I watch these days on UPN is Enterprise, the current 14:9 crop works well for me (16:9 would be even better, but 14:9 is fine).

One thing some of you may not realize is that many 16x9 sets (mine included) will not offer any crop options on 1080i signals. So broadcasting a letterboxed show like Enterprise w/o cropping is not particularly desireable since there would be no way to avoid large black bars on all sides. I'll probably go back to DirecTV for UPN if the 1080i signal puts a letterboxed Enterprise inside a 4:3 frame.

-- Doug

Doug,

We're glad it works for you, after all you are the one that matters. Instead of getting your dander up on something that may threaten your specific situation, unlike the given examples of content cut at the top or bottom of pictures (Baseball season should be fun with the Sox back where they belong but no visible scores), etc.

Please read a little, go back through even just this thread a number of pages.

Also, you can take your whatever and go home, but all people here, particularly Bob Hess know the extreme respect we hold for him. The man is a saint. This is not a personality or personal issue (except in your case of your response). Rational people can disagree and I'm sure there is a minority that likes 14x9, even if just for the letterboxed material (though I assume that WSBK would like it folks watched more than one or two shows).

Thanks for participating in the debate,
Tim

I like the 14x9 on 38.1 most of the time.

Just want everyone to know their are people who like it.

Hi Guys,

I have thick skin and don't mind the comments. Personally, as a HD set owner, I prefer to maintain a 4x3 format and manipulate the aspect ratio from my own remote control. Our concern, however, is what the "average" viewer wants. The jury is still out and I am not sure that anyone participating in this forum is an "average" viewer.

On this forum, I try to stick to the facts and updates and keep my personal comments to myself. This is about as close as I will get to revealing the "viewer" side of me!

Now, with that said, I have one more DTV station to get on the air. Got to get back to work!

- Bob

Bob,
How about a 38.2 with a 4x3 AR? Or would that be too costly of an option?

Jim

Bob Hess-

Have your engineers had the chance to look at the PSIP "anomalies" that were reported a little while back for the WSBK stream? Last time I checked with my Panny DST-51 I still could not view WSBK if channel mapping was enabled (got a blank screen on 38.1). I have been running with mapping disabled but would like to put it back on so my wife and kids have some hope of finding the station they are looking for. Before I do another complete rescan with the mapping, I wanted to check and see if anything had been changed on you end.

Like all the posters here, I appreciate all your efforts to keep us informed (even if we're not so "average" :) )

-Howard

WSBK PSIP

I have a DST-51 and WSBK is working OK with channel mapping on.

Bob D.

Now that WHDH has dropped their SD subchannel, I thought I'd clean things up last night and rescan channels on my HiPix. Oddly, I now have WHDH-HD as 7.2 and nothing on 7.1 - not quite what I was expecting to see!

Does anyone know if this is a HiPix anomaly, or just the way WHDH set up the PSIP data?

Thanks for any insight.

-Gary

I am with the people that like 14x9 on WSBK. I cannot expand or stretch any DTV signals. So I enjoy watching Enterprise filling the screen. If there were a 4x3 signal then I would have a smaller picture in the middle of the screen with black bars all around. I certainly don't want that.

Some observations on recent PSIP changes.

:( WGBH (19), as I expect everyone has noticed, has dropped the 2.2 (WGBX) subchannel, their TVCT now looks like this:

2.1 WGBH-DT Frequency = 500.3MHz, TSID = 0x054D, source_id = 2.
. Channel Name = "WGBH-HD"
. PCR PID = 0021
. Elem PID = 0021, Video
. Elem PID = 0024, AC3 audio
. Elem PID = 0029, AC3 audio
. Elem PID = 002A, Type = 0B

:) WHDH (42). Their TVCT hasn't changed since they dropped the SD subchannel, although EPG (program guide) is back.

7.1 WHDH-HD Frequency = 174.3MHz, TSID = 0x0553, source_id = 1.
. Channel Name = "High Definition TV"
. PCR PID = 0021
. Elem PID = 0021, Video
. Elem PID = 0024, AC3 audio

:) WSBK (39) looks much better now that the extra 38.0 is gone!

38.0 WSBK-TV Frequency = 615.2MHz, TSID = 0x0556, source_id = 1.
. Channel Name = "WSBK-TV"

38.1 WSBK-DT Frequency = 620.3MHz, TSID = 0x0557, source_id = 2.
. Channel Name = "WSBK-DT"
. PCR PID = 0011
. Elem PID = 0011, Video
. Elem PID = 0014, AC3 audio

Although I'm still getting a CRC error on the RRT (rating table), but that isn't much use without real program data anyway.

:( WUTF (23) isn't putting out any PSIP information at all, so there is
no way for it to map to 66.

-----------

PSIP also includes a time signal. DST ends on October 27th at 02:00, however some stations are confused:

WFXT on the 28th. at 00:00
WHDH on the 28th. at 02:00.
WSBK on the 31st. at 01:00.

_Paul

Originally posted by vfrjim
How about a 38.2 with a 4x3 AR? Or would that be too costly of an option?


Having a SD subchannel is what 42 tried (and executed successfully at the cost over the HD channel PQ).

Unfortunately as any compromise standard, this would also be a compromise, however the vast majority of set owners CAN manipulate an SD signal (stretch or whatever).

Perhaps an alternative would be to upconvert letterbozed material to a real centered 16x9 AR (no mini-black bars) and leave the rest of the material alone. This would take some scheduled automatic or manual switching. (I don't think vendors getting commercials 14x9 now would mind the few hours at 16x9 but the rest being shown full screen).

Hopefully the letterboixed shows will be REAL HD soon enough... hopefully.
Tim

Originally posted by Mr.H
Some observations on recent PSIP changes.

[SNIP]



Well, I have to say as a Panny DST-51 owner the recent changes are much appreciated. For the first time in many months I can get the proper (non SAP) audio for WGBH. I presume DST-50 owners are working again, too. WSBK is now working properly with channel mapping, as well. With the exception of WHDH-DT's signal seeming to be extremely weak these past few days, I think I actually have all the Boston stations working properly now.

I'm beginning to think there is something wrong with the Tower that transmits the WBZ, WCVB & WSBK signals....they are all at zero signal level now while WFXT & WHDH seems ok. Anyone else notice this?

Yes, I am seeing the same thing.

Same here

eags, TomL, and happystick:

You are correct. There is a power failure at the WBZ, WCVB, etc., tower site. NSTAR is working on restoring power. More at 11...

Bob Yankowitz
RF Systems Manager
Viacom Boston

Thanks Bob!

Power has been restored at the Needham site. WBZ and WSBK DT's are back on and running normally. WCVB and WGBH engineers are onsite and they should be back soon as well.

Bob Yankowitz
RF Systems Manager
Viacom Boston

Oh, so that's what happened. I just hooked up my new receiver (Sony HD 200) this afternoon and I thought something was seriously wrong with my set-up. I couldn't figure out why I was getting strong signals on some channels and nothing on others. What a relief!

Originally posted by bootstew
Oh, so that's what happened. I just hooked up my new receiver (Sony HD 200) this afternoon and I thought something was seriously wrong with my set-up. I couldn't figure out why I was getting strong signals on some channels and nothing on others. What a relief!

Did you previously have an hd100 and if so is the hd200 any better with multipath?

Jay

No, I didn't have an HD 100 but I did have a Panasonic HDS 20 for about two weeks when they first came out. I felt that box wasn't ready for prime time. I hated the 3D roller guide, also it was just too slow to react to remote commands.

So far, I can say I like the new Sony because of the way the APG is layed out and the quick response time when changing channels or scrolling the guide up or down. I also like the signal button on the remote that lets me check signal strength without interrupting the program I'm watching.

As far as multipath goes, I can't really tell you much since I live far enough from the city that there aren't an big buildings for signals to bounce off of.

Hurrah to WGBH not transmitting SAP any longer (though the real solution is to get Panasonic to fix the TU-DST51).

Too bad about WGBX going away however. My digital reception is far superior, especially on UHF. even if the video is on SD. I guess it's back
to snowy channel 44.

Hi,

I am in North Attleboro and get good reception on 2,4,5,7,23,25 and 38. On some shows, like CSI, the picture is tremendous but on others, The Practice for example, the ad's actually look better than the HD program. Is this just me or is there a difference?

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I am running a Sammy T-151 on a Toshiba widescreen.

Thanks,

Chris10

Why was Liar,Liar in SD last nite (at least the end)? Various guides said it was going to be HD.

In the HDTV Programming section of this board many other people complained about Liar,Liar in SD, very few people in the country actually saw it in HD, must of been technical difficulties...

Originally posted by Chris10
Hi,

I am in North Attleboro and get good reception on 2,4,5,7,23,25 and 38. On some shows, like CSI, the picture is tremendous but on others, The Practice for example, the ad's actually look better than the HD program. Is this just me or is there a difference?

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this. I am running a Sammy T-151 on a Toshiba widescreen.

Thanks,

Chris10

I have had exactly the same subjective reaction. PQ of source material varies greatly, even within one network. In general, I feel ABC in 720p has somewhat better PQ than NBC or CBS in 1080i. The Practice, however, is consistently awful, this year as well as last season. On the other hand, our local ABC affiliate broadcast a spectacular New England Chronicle about two weeks featuring fall foliage footage with PQ that literally took my breath away.

PBS has shown with their late lamented demo loop how truly stunning HDTV can be. Unfortunately, most of the other PBS HD program material to date has been mediocre at best. At present, we are not even getting PBS HD programming from our local affiliate, but rather upconverted SD programming.

Furthermore, I have even seen better PQ on a few Fox shows broadcast in 480i or 480p than in some NBC or CBS shows broadcast in 1080i [donning flameproof suit and ducking incoming rounds]. And the baseball games in 480i have looked really good -- too bad the same can't be said for the Red Sox. Last night's Girls Club (new show, jury still out) had appreciably better PQ than the preceeding Boston Public, which was gritty and grainy as usual. And, yes, I have also noticed that the PQ on some HD shows is so poor that the commercials aired in upconverted SD actually look better than the HD show content.

Bottom line, I guess, is that it will be some time before all production facilities have upgraded their cameras, mixers, and recording equipment to a level that will do justice to the capabilities of HDTV. Meanwhile, we all have to bide our time and live for the occasional show that does offer decent HD PQ. Now about that PBS demo loop...

Originally posted by dhg
Bottom line, I guess, is that it will be some time before all production facilities have upgraded their cameras, mixers, and recording equipment to a level that will do justice to the capabilities of HDTV. Meanwhile, we all have to bide our time and live for the occasional show that does offer decent HD PQ. Now about that PBS demo loop...

Don't forget that what we see with HDTV more accurately represents the 'look' that the director & cinematographer intended.

Not everything will look like "CSI". The grainy look of Practice and the toned down look of ER are nice contrasts to the electric look of CSI...

-jeff

While we are discussing the PQ of HD broadcasts, I'd just like to offer a thumbs up vote for the PQ of ABC's NYPD Blue. Of course it helps that it has always been one of my favorite shows, but IMHO, NYPD BLue is consistently one of the very best regular network offerings with regard to PQ as well as audio quality.
-Eric

Originally posted by jeffw
Don't forget that what we see with HDTV more accurately represents the 'look' that the director & cinematographer intended.

Not everything will look like "CSI". The grainy look of Practice and the toned down look of ER are nice contrasts to the electric look of CSI...

-jeff

That thought had indeed occurred to me as well, but I suspect that in the case of most shows, the "look" has more to do with camera angles, perspectives, visual styles, etc., than a matter of PQ sharpness and resolution per se.

One can certainly make a good case that inner city/public school/crime/court scene type subject matter can be conveyed by gritty & grainy tabloid-like visual textures à la The Practice, but an equally valid case could be made for shooting such subject matter as sharply and crisply as possible, the better to convey sordid detail, dirt & grime, etc., as CSI does so well.

I guess what bothers me more is the soft focus, fuzzy shot-on-film quality that so many NBC & CBS sitcoms and other shows seem to have as a visual norm. This has very little aesthetic rationale; it is merely poor equipment and processing not up to HDTV standards. Hopefully this will change as production studios and broadcasters gradually upgrade their equipment.

Originally posted by ezgoin
While we are discussing the PQ of HD broadcasts, I'd just like to offer a thumbs up vote for the PQ of ABC's NYPD Blue. Of course it helps that it has always been one of my favorite shows, but IMHO, NYPD BLue is consistently one of the very best regular network offerings with regard to PQ as well as audio quality.
-Eric

I would fully agree with you on that point, and I am happy to hear you mention the audio quality as well. With all of the flap on these boards about PQ by myself and myriad others, I have read relatively little commentary about the relative audio quality, real and potential, of HDTV broadcasting.

Just as directors/producers are not yet able to avail themselves fully of the technological advances in video, they are also not yet even beginning to tap the capabilities of the audio technology. CBS and NBC use Dolby Surround encoding that can vary greatly in quality, use, and effectiveness of the rear channel(s). ABC offers certainly greater potential with its use of discrete unencoded channels in Dolby Digital 5.1, but most of their shows seem to have little or no use of rear channel ambient or special effect information and some seem to have been recorded in POS (plain old stereo).

As a professional musician and life-long audio hobbyist, I have done a lot of very careful listening and comparison of AQ. For example, I have found it very interesting to switch back and forth among 7.1 (HD), 7.2 (digital SD), OTA analog 7, and 7 on Adelphia cable during a single program. I can clearly hear very substantial and palpable differences in audio quality from one transmission mode to another. The clarity of detail and relative lack of noise and distortion in digital audio broadcasting is IMHO every bit as great an advancement as the improvements in PQ. It is the same great leap forward that we experienced when analog LPs and audio tape were gradually supplanted and surpassed by digital CDs.

Thinking back 20 years, some of those early CDs weren't so great either, as record producers & engineers were still using some older equipment and technologies optimized for analog recording and also had not yet learned to take full advantages of the possibilities of digital recording. It would seem that HDTV on both the video and audio sides is presently undergoing the same learning curve and growth processes.

Wasn't the start date supposed to be the 20th of this month? Anyone getting WLVI yet in HD?