Looks like Nov 2.

Check it out (http://kswbtv.trb.com/entertainment/wbnetwork/stv-hdtv-airdates,0,2314956.htmlstory)

I know it says Nov. 2, but I wouldn't bet my house on it.

I believe they mean Nov. 2002...

If the gubernatorial debates last night did nothing else, they provided a great way to compare PQ of various stations upconverting from the same video source. My personal preference ranking was (best to worst): 5(20), 7(42), 2(19), and 4(30). CVB had the nicest color and least pixelation and aliasing. Except for some problems with the graphics at the lower edge, the picture was clean. HDH was next, color was a little flatter and evidence of some aliasing was present. GBH: this is evident in all there broadcasts - it's almost like they are not devoting full bandwidth to their solitary video channel. Fine textures pixelate. Finally, BZ (sorry Bob), seemed to be having some sort of analog problem - there were black diagonal bars moving from left to right across the screen - not objectionable but definitely noticeable. Looked like cochannel interference that you see on analog signals. The color on BZ was also washed out. In all fairness, perhaps 'BZ was having a problem somewhere before the upconversion.

Any one else with comments?

Yeah..anyone else scared silly if someone other than a Republican/Democrat actually wins?
(Wasn't sure if I should post that here or in the DVD forum...j/k!)

-JR

As noted on the other thread, when WLVI powers up it will be at 30 kW. This means you'll have an interesting time getting it in the burbs.

30kW? Is that substantially less then other Boston stations? What other stations are broadcasting close to that power?

Bob Hess,

Repeating request from tmitch... in separate thread. Will WSBK be getting the Paramount HD One package???


Calling our good friend Bob Hess...

Will WBZ-DT the Boston CBS affiliate that feeds ExpressVu be airing these movies?
If so, can you please work with ExpressVu to make sure that they carry them as well?

Thanks Bob!


Thanks,
Tim

Originally posted by vfrjim
30kW? Is that substantially less then other Boston stations? What other stations are broadcasting close to that power?

Looks like it is the very lowest power of any station in my list for Boston area, if you exclude the stations starting out with the LP loophole like channel 29 and 35.

For comparison, WFXT-DT channel 31 that everyone wants more power on has more than double the power.

rjd: I didn't watch the debates, but I did, just for the heck of it last night, watch CSI on my computer with a HiDTV card. It was a very boring episode but it looked pretty nice in HD. However the commercials had really awful PQ, I couldn't even read any text! It looked like there was some kind of horizontal blurring/smearing going on. Perhaps there really is something messing up the signal before it gets upconverted. I don't normally watch anything on WBZ, so I can't say if this is normal or unusual behaviour.

anyone else notice that wgbh-dt is doing a s t r e t c h to get to that 14:9? the debaters on 2.1 all outweighed their thin counterparts on 4.1/5.1/7.1 .

i don't mind 14:9 if it's a linear zoom, but please no more nonlinear zooms, wgbh-dt-engineers... i suppose i should email wgbh about this some day.

in other news , moved my attic antenna up another 6 feet - seems like a great improvement in signal strength so far. 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 23, 25, 38 are all looking solid. previously 38 was marginal and recently i'd been having trouble with 4 as welll - lots of multipath with a little wind & snow on the trees?

I had my 2nd CM 4228 moved from the attic to 20 feet above the roof with rotor. UPN 38-1 went from 48-52 signal strength to 100! Just about all the Boston stations come in well with +/- 6 degrees of rotation (in the attic moving it just a hair could lose a station). 2-1 & 7-1 are rock solid as well.

I am using a CM Rotor and Winegaurd UHF-only pre-amp. It was fortunate that I had the rotor, the installer said that they are in short supply, presumably due to the longshoreman strike.

I sounds like WLVI 41-1 (56-1) will be a good test for this new configuration.

Note that I still have one in the attic (fixed - pointing at Boston). It will be interesting to compare signals on bad days. It has some dense trees to negotiate as well as vinyl siding.

Note: 7-1 was off the air Friday morning, fortunately it came back before the installation was done so I could verify proper reception.

For those of you suffering multi-path in your attic (like me), you might want to try moving to the roof.

-Dave :)

What a wast of digital bandwidth! :rolleyes: ShopNBC.com is broadcasting in SD (no apparent subchannels other than -1).

From http://antennaweb.org

WPXB-DT 34 PAX Merrimack NH Nov 1 2002

It seems to crash my Toshiba DST-3000. MyHD is able to receive it.

As I write this, the video is gone, but signal strength is strong 93-100 (with antenna rotated).

-Dave

Just purchased Sony HD200 plus Pioneer elite Pro520HD. Having new dish installed later this week to pick up DTV HD stations(all three). My question is about antennas and comments regarding my equipment. The sales guy at Tweeter told me to use the TERK 55 for HD OTA. Based upon what I have read here I tried to tell him about the problems. He also assured me I will be blown away with the set up I purchased. He insisted it would work fine. I am still trying to sell my wife on this so a big antenna on the roof is a no go.

Anyone live SW of Boston have luck with the terk? What else should I look at that will also please my wife.

Thanks for the help.

Mike5454,

Did you try to put a fullsize antenna like the channel master 4228 in your attic yet? It worked pretty good from here in RI, I had a little interference, but not bad, I needed more signal, so that is why I put mine on my chimney.

Jim

I also have a CM4228 in my attic with a Winegard Spartan III preamp.
I live about 30 miles out, and have a large hill just to the East that should cause problems. Yet, my reception is 100% on everything but WHDH. WHDH breaks up during certain conditions. A big antenna in the attic will probably work for you.

The 4228 has the highest gain of any I have seen. It is an 8 bay antenna. It is only about 3x3 feet (slightly rectangular with a depth of maybe 6 inches. So it is not a big antenna. In fact, it is probably only about 50% larger than the sat dish.

As the previous post indicated, you could put it in your attic (I also recommend using a pre-amp, depending on how far out you are). It really depends on what would block your view of the stations you would be watching (2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 25-1, 38-1, 56-1 (soon)). A lot more than 3 stations (plus you could probably get RI stations if you went to the roof with a rotor). If you search for "Channel Master 4228 starkelectronic" you can see a picture of it on starkelectronic.com.

Go to http://www.antennaweb.org and find out where you will need to point it. If there are any hills or tall buildings in the way you might have problems. If you are going through trees, you will have problems with wet leaves when it rains. The roof is always better than the attic. Unfortunately there is no easy way to know what kind of reception you will get until you try it. If you are having your dish professionally installed, the installer might be able to check if you would have problems receiving DTV signals (if they have a spectrum analyzer they should be able to do that relatively easily). If they can't, maybe you should change to an installer who can.

Hope that helps,
-Dave

p.s. Here is a link to the 4228 and other UHF antennas on Channel Masters web-site:

http://www.channelmaster.com/pages/u1.htm

Thanks for all the help. I'll look into the CM 4228. Does RG6 cable hook into this or does I need an adapter. I am about 25miles out from boston so should I look into a preamp?

Mike

What is a multipath problem? I have many tress around me. Mostly pines. Is this associated with multipath problems? Do attics cause these problems as well.

Mike

4228 comes with a Balun adapter, so you can connect rg6 right to that. IMO, trees do not cause multipath problems, usually something solid or metal causes it. My attic was causing my multipath problem with WHDH too, but if you can get everything else with it, whats the big deal, 6 stations are better then 1 :)

Jim

Multipath is caused when the transmitted signal takes more than one path from the transmitter site to your receiver. For instance, the straight line between the two locations, and a second path where the signal bounces off a large building or hill. The second signal takes a slightly longer path and thus arrives at a slightly later time. Radio signals can bounce off just about anything, but many surfaces will attenuate the signal in doing so. This means the later arriving signal is much weaker and won't cause a problem. But not always. The best reflectors, and thus best causes of multipath are large steel buildings. This is why many people who live in urban areas close to the transmitter site have reception problems. A large hill or range of hills can also cause a problem - especially if the hills block the straight line path. In this case, this path is now made weaker and thus the weaker reflected signals have more of a chance to cause problems.

A directional antenna helps eliminate multipath problems by not only amplifying the straight line path to the tranmitter, but also attenuating the other paths.

I've heard discussions that attic installations have more problems with multipath. Inside an attic, there are metal surfaces (electrical lines, air ducts, etc) which distort the antenna's directional pattern. This distorted pattern reduces the effectiveness of the antenna. I don't think these surfaces cause multipath themselves, as the difference in path length is very, very small relative to the distance from the transmitter. (Contrast this with a building that adds miles to the path).

Due to the way ATSC works, a signal needs to be delayed 80-100 feet (or a multiple of this) in order to cause a reception problem.

Did anyone watch the HD horseracing on NBC yesterday? Whenever they went to a commercial break, the 4x3 ads were 'inside' the 16x9 HD screen. The overscan lines were blue with logos that said 'The Breader's Cup'. It was pretty cool. The analog and HD feeds were very different (different shots, etc). It was nice to see that NBC would allow a slightly different program for the same event.

-JR

Originally posted by Mike5454
What is a multipath problem? I have many tress around me. Mostly pines. Is this associated with multipath problems? Do attics cause these problems as well.

Mike

Multi-path is caused by signal reflections. Because the signal is reflected, it arrives at a slightly later time and distorts the signal going to the receiver. Materials used in building construction can cause the reflections.

Ultimately it comes down to signal-to-noise ratio. Think of a reflected signal as noise, if the noise is strong enough the receiver can't distinguish the straight-line path signal from the reflected path signal.

Note that wet leaves are probably more likely to reduce the signal and allow reflected signal from another direction to become dominant in the receiver. As wind blows the wet leaves, the strength of the signal from the straight-line direction can vary.

In an attic, the signal can actually reflect off of the antenna and then be reflected back to it by some close metal object (maybe even nails used for the construction?).

With analog signals, multi-path would cause ghosting. With digital signals, multi-path can cause dropouts, because the digital signal gets garbled so that the receiver can no longer interpret the data. An easy check for multi-path is to tune to an analog station whose tower is close (in proximity) to a digital station and see if you see ghosting. Different channels use different frequencies, and some frequencies may behave differently (because they will reflect at different angles), so this is by no means a definitive test.

Disclaimer: Note that I am by no means an expert on the subject; this description is based purely on accumulated knowledge and may not be entirely accurate. I hadn't really thought about this too much until I went to write it down.

Hope that helps,
-Dave

hi - i've no doubt that the attic installation is far less optimal than an outdoor installation but i've also no doubt that big winds cause the tv image to blank out. the problem seems to only be when the trees/leaves are wet and the wind is quite strong (~20 mph or more?). any theories on why wind would cause problems considering my cm4248 is indoors ? the symtpom is - big gust of wind correlates strongly with loss of signal ...
btw - all power lines & other facilities wires are underground within at least 0.3 miles.

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Did anyone watch the HD horseracing on NBC yesterday? Whenever they went to a commercial break, the 4x3 ads were 'inside' the 16x9 HD screen. The overscan lines were blue with logos that said 'The Breader's Cup'. It was pretty cool. The analog and HD feeds were very different (different shots, etc). It was nice to see that NBC would allow a slightly different program for the same event.

-JR

I agree, it was an interesting way to present the SD signals. The only thing I didn't like was the slight angle they were using for the SD sub-window. It seems like it would have looked better had it been flat, but not having seen it flat, that is hard to prove. Overall it was a neat effect. I also like the colored boarders they used instead of black or gray bars on the sides when showing a full SD signal. They did some of that for the Winter Olympics as well. Hats off to NBC for creativity!

-Dave

ya, the hd horseracing was nifty. i liked the 'windowbox' view of the sd-broadcast within the hd-broadcast between races. except that the windowbox was not rectangular!
hd college football & hd horseracing on simltaneously - very nice.

Hi Bob:

I've actually been enjoying the 14x9 zoom on ch 38, since i've got no ability to reformat a HD picture on my TV.

While watching the Patriots Post-game show on WSBK, I noticed that the 'two-shot' of Bob and his guest didn't have any cut off-heads, but the 'one-shot' of either Bob or his guest cut off just a bit of their heads.

I realize you're in engineering, but I was wondering if there had ever been any discussion about shooting locally originated content '14x9 safe' while you're running in 14x9 mode?

Based on watching the Postgame show, they wouldn't have to pull back much on the 'one-shots' to keep from losing the top of people's heads...

Thanks!

-j

Originally posted by rjd
If the gubernatorial debates last night did nothing else, they provided a great way to compare PQ of various stations upconverting from the same video source. My personal preference ranking was (best to worst): 5(20), 7(42), 2(19), and 4(30). CVB had the nicest color and least pixelation and aliasing. Except for some problems with the graphics at the lower edge, the picture was clean. HDH was next, color was a little flatter and evidence of some aliasing was present. GBH: this is evident in all there broadcasts - it's almost like they are not devoting full bandwidth to their solitary video channel. Fine textures pixelate. Finally, BZ (sorry Bob), seemed to be having some sort of analog problem - there were black diagonal bars moving from left to right across the screen - not objectionable but definitely noticeable. Looked like cochannel interference that you see on analog signals. The color on BZ was also washed out. In all fairness, perhaps 'BZ was having a problem somewhere before the upconversion.

Any one else with comments?
This debate was produced by NECN, which is partially owned by WCVB. We did not have a satellite truck available to get the signal back to our Boston studio. We used a microwave truck. Quality from these trucks is suitable for live news stories but, for an hour long debate, we would have been better off using a satellite or fiber feed. Unfortunately, the news of the day determines how we schedule our facilities and the debate got the short straw. Satellite trucks are generally used in locations where we cannot get a terrestrial microwave shot back to Boston.

In short, this was not the best way to judge the quality of the upconverters. This is a case where the "garbage-in-garbage-out" rule applies.

Bob

Bob Hess,

So which station will be first with HDTV for local shows and news? Sounds like you need some new trucks at WBZ anyways!

Bob Hess,

Repeating request from tmitch... in separate thread. Will WSBK be getting the Paramount HD One package???



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calling our good friend Bob Hess...

Will WBZ-DT the Boston CBS affiliate that feeds ExpressVu be airing these movies?
If so, can you please work with ExpressVu to make sure that they carry them as well?

Thanks Bob!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thanks,
Tim

Originally posted by jeffw
Hi Bob:

I've actually been enjoying the 14x9 zoom on ch 38, since i've got no ability to reformat a HD picture on my TV.

While watching the Patriots Post-game show on WSBK, I noticed that the 'two-shot' of Bob and his guest didn't have any cut off-heads, but the 'one-shot' of either Bob or his guest cut off just a bit of their heads.

I realize you're in engineering, but I was wondering if there had ever been any discussion about shooting locally originated content '14x9 safe' while you're running in 14x9 mode?

Based on watching the Postgame show, they wouldn't have to pull back much on the 'one-shots' to keep from losing the top of people's heads...

Thanks!

-j
Good question. We'll look into it if we decide to stay with 14x9 on WSBK.

- Bob

Originally posted by rudolpht
Bob Hess,

Repeating request from tmitch... in separate thread. Will WSBK be getting the Paramount HD One package???



quote:

Calling our good friend Bob Hess...

Will WBZ-DT the Boston CBS affiliate that feeds ExpressVu be airing these movies?
If so, can you please work with ExpressVu to make sure that they carry them as well?
Tim
We send our HD schedule to ExpressVu.

We do own the package. We have aired some of the movies (which are for WSBK) on WBZ-DT when scheduling allows. Unfortunately, most have been in the middle of the night. Once we complete our HD infrastructure for WSBK, the HD version of these movies will air at the same time the analog side carries them. Shooting for first quarter to have infrastructure ready to go.

- Bob

Originally posted by jhe
Bob Hess,

So which station will be first with HDTV for local shows and news? Sounds like you need some new trucks at WBZ anyways!

Same gear everyone else in town uses. We (all stations) are transferring to SD digital transmission from our trucks. Bandwidth is limited. Frequencies are congested. This is a topic for another forum!

- Bob

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:39 AM
Any news on when we will see digital broadcasts? I am looking forward to Smallville in HD. Hopefully you will be setup for HD broadcasts when you start broadcasting on 41?

I also noticed that your initial power output is going to be very low. When do you expect full power broadcasts?

Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:07:57 -0600
David,
Perfect timing. We are finalizing our installation today and hope to be broadcasting by 8:00 p.m. this evening. Please tune in and let me know what you think. By the way, yes we will be broadcasting at reduced power until the FCC formally approves our license. No guess at this time when that will occur.

Regards,
Franco La Pietra
Chief Engineer
WLVI TV & WEWB TV


Clearly not on yet... Maybe tomorrow???

-Dave

Is it me or is 25.1 being broadcasted in 16x9 stretch-o-vision, both my HiPix and DTC-100 show it this way.

Jim

Just quickly tried tuning into 41, and there was WB56 :) Pretty good strong signal and looked good, with my HiDTV tuner card in my PC... but I'm less than a mile from the tower. The content was stretch-o-vision however. Looking forward to watching some WB hi-def just to say that I did. I know Everwood and Smallville are HD, what were the other 2 shows in HD?

i'm hoping there is some sort of unused PSIP flag which can be used to signal really scary content. last night on Leno they showed Gilbert Gottfried in HD, a way-too-close-up. i really could have used some sort of v-chip gilbert-gottfried warning! ugh! on the bright side, seems like Leno is taping more of his dopey skits in HD now - previously i recall they were obviously ntsc. gilbert gottfried in 1080i was just too much - i want to auto-downrez his goofy mug! ;)

also, "dtv auto add" picked up channel 41.1 ,
but could not lock onto a signal presumably due to the very low power.

I detect the signal, but not strong enough to view (0-18). Interesting that the attic antenna has better signal strength (21-27) than the roof.

-Dave

getting a good WB signal in methuen no drops

jjoboh

My STB sees a signal, but can't lock onto the data stream. Looks like I will
be waiting for the power increase...

-Bob

Like I posted in the mass thread, I get 64 to 68 on signal on my DTC-100 but I randomly lock onto the signal of WLVI but cannot hold it, on the other hand, channel 23.1 I get 37 to 43 signal and can lock onto it easily, maybe WLVI is having problems ????

Jim

WLVI is operating at a very reduced power until they get authorization from the FCC to increase it. Down in Taunton, my Hughes E-86 is getting only an 18% signal, not even close to locking on.

Here in Melrose, I was able to watch Reba without any problems. I intended to just tune in to the beginning to check the quality, but ended up watching the entire program. I was impressed with the picture quality and fact that there were no technical interruptions by the engineering department on the first night. Some commercials were stretch-o-vision and some were 4x3. It was the first time I have ever watched WB56. Does anybody know when they will broadcast DD5.1?

Getting WB56 fine in downtown Boston, as well (about 82 on the DTC 100)
and Reba was indeed very nice looking. But the SD-source material before and after was 4:3 stretched to 16:9: headache time for the eyes! Don't mean to complain, since it's clear that people are working hard just to get things going, and of course, more is never enough.

Thanks for the good work!

South End

WB 41.1/56.1 being received in South Plymouth, unfortunately with dropouts every 5-10 seconds that make it unwatchable. On my Panny TU-HDS20 41.1 remaps to 56.1 with no problem; on my Sammy SIR-T150 it does not remap at all. Whether this is due to a PSIP problem or the low power situation is not apparent. All other Boston area DT stations remap without problem on the Sammy.

On a different front, I see that WGBH-DT is fiddling with its broadcast parameters again. After a few weeks of good quality single channel 19.1/2.1 full bandwidth transmission in HD format but with program material in upconverted SD in crop and zoom 14x9 AR, I see that, as of yesterday, they are back to two subchannel transmission, with WGBH-DT once again in SD OAR at 19.1/2.1 and appreciably poorer PQ, but with a second channel in HD at 19.2/2.2, cryptically labelled PBS-HD and showing only a test pattern.

If this in fact heralds that they are once again planning to transmit HD PBS shows in true HD, rather than an upconverted parallel SD feed, we can indeed be truly thankful. Hell, I'd settle for the much-vaunted demo loop at this point.

56.1 coming in quite nicely in Salem, NH. An occasional dropout but considering the low power and the fact that I'm only using an attic antenna I was pleasantly surprised.

Back to getting SAP audio on the WGBH feed on my Panny DST-51. Previously someone posted showing that the PSIP was bad (even though all but the Pannys seem to handle it ok). Is this the case once again or can the Pannys just not handle multicasting along with multiple audio tracks?

The older Panny's won't work with stations transmitting more than one audio channel inside the same program stream. Each audio stream has a number or "PID". The Pannys use the audio with the highest # PID. Unfortunately, the standard is to put main audio on the lowest number PID. I've been going back and forth with an engineering manager at Panasonic about this, but progress has been sloooooww.

Fortunately, GBH turned this "feature" off, so we are OK for now...


-Bob

WB coming in around 45-55% today in Warwick, RI---currently watching Miami vs. Rutgers football and it looks fine.
[Using DTV1080 receiver with indoor amplified Winegard antenna---channel shows as 41-2]

Keith

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Once we complete our HD infrastructure for WSBK, the HD version of these movies will air at the same time the analog side carries them. Shooting for first quarter to have infrastructure ready to go.

Thanks Bob, and I thought you were ignorning the question (despite my calling you a saint) because of the AR question. I hadn't put 2 & 2 together that the WBZ late night viewings were this package.

When the HD infrastructure is done, could you get the point of showing letterboxed shows in full 16x9 and leaving the rest in OAR as a near term compromise?

Tim

Is 41.1 up full time at the low power or is it still in troubleshooting???

Tim

Originally posted by pezdoctor
WB coming in around 45-55% today in Warwick, RI---currently watching Miami vs. Rutgers football and it looks fine.
[Using DTV1080 receiver with indoor amplified Winegard antenna---channel shows as 41-2]

Keith

I guess that blows my theory. Did get a 25 signal on a DTS-3000, maps to 56-1. Got slightly better on my Dish 6000. Also maps properly. Bupkis on my MyHD card. Can't wait for my Zenith SAT-520 to come in.

Tim

As of last night, WLVI-DT (41)and WPXB-DT(34) both have some PSIP issues to fix.

WLVI-DT is strong at my house at 14 miles. I would expect it to work fine for most people out to 35-40 miles with outdoor quality antennas. But my Samsung finicky tuner says the station doesn't exist.

WPXB-DT also has a fine signal, and the Samsung receives an actual picture for as long as 10 seconds. Then it just goes away and comes back at a regular frequency. This is not a multipath issue, since turning the antenna makes no difference in the rate.

just now i got 56.1/41.1 picture for the first time here
in southern NH - picture is intermittent, choppy, blocky. maybe it will get better later in the evening, as seems to be the usual case for DTV reception.

jhe,
As of last night, WLVI-DT (41)and WPXB-DT(34) both have some PSIP issues to fix.

I'm glad someone else has the same problems that I am having, with a 70 signal here in RI, I cannot lock in on WLVI and can lock in on others with a lesser signal, this is with my DTC-100, cannot wait till I get my new SIR-TS160 later this month, my HiPix see's about 10-15 on the signal meter and definitely cannot lock on with that. Are they aware of the PSIP issues?

Jim

fwiw, as a fan of 14:9 i hereby remove the hanging chad from my virtual floridian ballot and thus change my "ntsc->14:9 vote" to be a vote for OAR on all material.

Originally posted by rudolpht
Is 41.1 up full time at the low power or is it still in troubleshooting???

Tim
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 09:52:40 -0600
David,
Sorry for the misleading information. Turns out we were up and down all day still doing some testing. We hope to be back up later this afternoon.
Regards,
Franco.

That's all the information I got from the engineer on Friday morning after emailing that I didn't see any signal Thursday night.

-Dave

Tried tuning in 41 this morning for the first time, and although it takes a little longer than most stations to lock in, I'm getting a solid picture with a signal strength of 64-70 with a DTC-100 and an attic mounted antenna in Framingham. Wow, nine stations now broadcasting digitally in the Boston area. Don't know why they bother to still make TV's with NTSC tuners. ;-)

Originally posted by tveli
just now i got 56.1/41.1 picture for the first time here
in southern NH - picture is intermittent, choppy, blocky. maybe it will get better later in the evening, as seems to be the usual case for DTV reception.
In Salem NH, I consistently get 56.1 nice and clear once the sun goes down. During the day it is unwatchable. Good thing there isn't much to watch there during the day! :)

Anyone else have trouble with WBZ today? Used to be my strongest station down here in RI. I was getting dropouts all day during Pats game. I tried watching Sports Final and the signal deteriorated to where I couldn't even get a lock, even breaking out the rotor control. Used to be full bars on MYHD.

Thanks
Gregg

Must be a problem at the broadcast tower. I'm getting no signal at all from 4, 5 or 38. However, 2 is coming in as strong as ever. Also 7 and 25 (different towers) are coming in as good as usual.

41.1 - Sat evening I was getting consistant 65 - 72 reading.


Sunday night WBZ had quite frequent glitches with dropout and at least one 16x9 - 4x3 - 16x9 flipflop during the movie. Even with problems, still beats the cable and satelite alternatives...

I have been getting great signal strength on everything but channel 38 I have rescanned more times than I can remember. Is anyone else out there having problems with 38? By the way I have a DST 3000

I have a Dish 6000 i can't lock on to 39dt-38 or 41dt-56.What is going on?Are they broadcasting at low power?

Originally posted by dhg
...they are back to two subchannel transmission, with WGBH-DT once again in SD OAR at 19.1/2.1 and appreciably poorer PQ, but with a second channel in HD at 19.2/2.2, cryptically labelled PBS-HD and showing only a test pattern.

So, do I have a serious problem if I immediately sprinted into the home office to retrieve the blue filter from my Avia DVD to check the HD color balance and saturation?!?!?! :D

Has anyone bugged WGBH lately? They have apparently shut down all HiDef broadcasts. I thought our campaign last year worked, they had both stations broadcast along with some HiDef (albeit poor quality compressed) shows. Now they transmit regular WGBH and HiDef color bars.

All I want is Rudy Maxa HD and we can't even get that (the rest of the country at least gets national HD feeds!).
Spearse

Only checked in briefly Sat night and again on Sunday, But 41.1 was coming in fine in Sutton, about 55% on the meter with Samsung Sirt-150 and RS rooftop antenna.

Hi Guys,

WBZ-DT has been operating at 50% power since about 9:30 PM Sunday. The problem is in one of our two power amplifiers and is associated with high voltage arching. We expect to have the transmitter operating at full power by prime time, Tuesday night.

50% power for WBZ is 362,500 watts for those who count the watts.

Bob

Originally posted by Benji
Must be a problem at the broadcast tower. I'm getting no signal at all from 4, 5 or 38. However, 2 is coming in as strong as ever. Also 7 and 25 (different towers) are coming in as good as usual.

Gosh, some of you actually watch the digitals after midnight? Yes, digital channels 4.1, 5.1, and 38.1 were off the air last night to allow us to replace a defective piece of 8 inch transmission line on the tower. This is unassociated with the WBZ-DT problem reported above. Digital channel 2 was unaffected since their signal is routed via a different run of transmission line.

Everything at Channel 38.1 is normal. We have not had any problems since the transmitter first went on the air. We have not made any PSIP adjustments since the first week of operation.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV, WBZ-AM, WODS-FM

Bob,

I guess that is good news for you but bad for me. I can't understand why 38.1 won't come in for me like I mentioned earlier everything else comes in great.

Speaking of transmission power: on Saturday I was parked in Needham Highlands in the middle of the antenna farm -- at You-Do-It Electronics, as a matter of fact. I found that the remote entry system on my car malfunctioned, and it suddenly dawned on me that I had experienced the same problem the last time I had parked there. Duh! - it suddenly occurred to me that the source of the problem was the enormous amount of RF energy in the area. Kinda makes me glad I don't live, work, or spend much time in that area. It can't be all that healthy.

Originally posted by dhg
Speaking of transmission power: on Saturday I was parked in Needham Highlands in the middle of the antenna farm -- at You-Do-It Electronics, as a matter of fact. I found that the remote entry system on my car malfunctioned, and it suddenly dawned on me that I had experienced the same problem the last time I had parked there. Duh! - it suddenly occurred to me that the source of the problem was the enormous amount of RF energy in the area. Kinda makes me glad I don't live, work, or spend much time in that area. It can't be all that healthy.

I had the same thing happen to me when I used to park there...

and here I thought I was the only one that happened to :)

Originally posted by dhg
-- at You-Do-It Electronics, as a matter of fact. I found that the remote entry system on my car malfunctioned,

The trick is to park next to the building... there are two spaces in front of the handicapped one. Much less rf...
your remote entry system will be happier, but on the otherhand, you won't glow in the dark.

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Gosh, some of you actually watch the digitals after midnight?

Yes! (and if you put up test patterns, the ratings will really increase.)

Sometime when things quiet down, think about doing a tech chat show. You could do a test pattern segment (with comments), a "what's new" segment, a "best HD of the week" segment, a Q&A "Ask the Engineer" segment, and a
guest engineer's "tour of my ham (er, transmitter) shack" segment. Add HDTV/audio commercials between segments and you'd have a show.

Great idea Jimg,

A Bob Hess Tech Chat TV show!
I'd watch it for sure.

And it's the perfect way for CBS to promote HDTV! Bob's show could go nationwide. The place for everyone to go to solve a reception problem, or learn how to switch to DTV before their analog station goes away!

hi.
e are some of us who watch plenty of dtv after midnight, although not usually very much beyond leno!

health risk from living inbetween antenna farm due to all the e&m flux? no way, c'mon, be serious .
no worry. of couse someone could prove me wrong by doing some math but i believe that the flux from being under power lines is many orders of magnitude higher tan the flux from the needham towers for needham residents. and the flux from an electric blanket or electric shaver is even more than that from
the power lines next door. 1 over R^2 is a key factor.

but maybe this is a way to sell DTV to environmentalists - less radiated power is required - much better for the environment & people's health!

sincerely, a former needham resident, greenough street i think it was...

I still remember watching "Ask the Manager" on CH 38 way back when there was no cable tv and everything was OTA, that seems like so long ago...

Does anyone know what power WGBH-DT is transmitting at these days? I remember seeing something about a decrease to "1/3 full power" but I still can't pull them in. If my math is right and that's ~275kW ERP, and I can get WFXT-DT at a lowly 70kW ERP without breakups (nevermind all the other major stations) what gives? If they really are getting ready to offer some of the national PBS HD feed, I want to be able to receive them!

Also, no joy on WLVI-DT on ch 41 in Andover, but at 30kW I'm not surprised....

Is WHDH-DT at 50% power as well? I have been having problems with WCVB-DT for about a week (no signal) and 7-1 has been breaking up quite a bit.
-JR

Has anyone gotten a number at FOX for complaints?

-Dave

Originally posted by vfrjim
I still remember watching "Ask the Manager" on CH 38 way back when there was no cable tv and everything was OTA, that seems like so long ago...

A GREAT show, and after Boomtown was off the air on BZ....

Tim

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Is WHDH-DT at 50% power as well? I have been having problems with WCVB-DT for about a week (no signal) and 7-1 has been breaking up quite a bit.
-JR
If you don't have a rotor, I would suspect that you originally aligned your antenna to a multi-path signal. I originally had a YAGI in the attic and had similar problems. Once I bought an 8-bay 4228 my reception improved dramatically, that was in that attic. The last few weeks I have had it on the roof and have eliminated most dropouts.

-Dave

Last night I was getting ok video (occasional dropouts) but NO audio on 56.1. during prime time. Was 56 having problems or is this another audio problem unique to the DST50/51 crowd?

-Howard

'BZ-DT back to full power around 6:30 PM last night (Tuesday).

- Bob

howard: I'm not sure what timeframe you were watching WB but I watched Smallville from 9:20 to 10:00pm on my PC with a HiDTV card and there were no audio or visual issues.

56.1 is long lost to me here in southern NH after just a couple days of it being receivable. are they playing with power levels?

Originally posted by tveli
56.1 is long lost to me here in southern NH after just a couple days of it being receivable. are they playing with power levels?


Haven't been able to pick it up in Framingham lately either.

Jay

It's even worst for me, I get a 70 signal on my DTC-100 and can't lock on for WLVI... very strange

GrantR: Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, like many, I can no longer get 56.1 at all so further testing is on hold. It was during Smallville that I noticed it so it sounds like another Panny issue.

WLVI-DT is still coming in fine in Lexington, on channel 41.
My Samsung shows no remapping to 56, so I have to tune to 41. I assume this is due to them eventually having to give up 56 anyway?

I'll try my Panasonic TU-DST50 again soon, but it was working fine on that back when the Samsung couldn't get it.

WLVI-DT consistent at 75% in Westford,west of Nashoba Hill, no dropouts.

Hi, hoping to get some assistance. I posted earlier this week of troubles I had pulling in the Pats game on WBZ-DT Sunday. The breakups were so bad I ended up using the satellite signal. Later that evening (11:30pm) I couldn't lock onto BZ-DT trying to watch Sports Final. I gave up and went to bed.
When I checked the forums Monday, I saw Bos Hess's remarks about the issues with WBZ-DT and I attributed the problems I was having to that.

Well, Bob reported on Weds that WBZ-DT was back up to full power on Tuesday evening and my problems persist. Keep in mind that WBZ-DT has always been my most reliable station since I've been watching DTV the last 3-4 months.

Here's my equipment:
Channel Master 4248 yagi uhf antenna
Radio shack high gain antenna mounted uhf/vhf/fm amplifier (fm trap off)
New runs of quad shield rg-6 sealed weather ends
Hughes E-86 stb
MyHD -100 pci tuner

Using the rotor to tweak the positioning, here are my readings for the major Boston Stations from the Hughes signal indicator. (the myHD card signal readings are comparable). The signal being split had no major impact in the readings:

19 (2-1 WGBH-DT) 100%
20 (5-1 WCVB-DT) 100%
30 (4-1 WBZ-DT) unlocked to 100%
31 (25-1 WFXT-DT) 100%
39 (38-1 WSBK-DT) 72-100%
41 (56-1 WLVI-DT) unlocked to16%
42 (7-1 WHDH-DT) 100%

On 31 and 42, the bar may drop to 93% occasionally but never enough to lose signal. 39 will dropout occasionally.

Watching the signal indicator for WBZ reminds me of watching the slider on a trombone being played. This results in 8-10 dropouts/lost signal per minute when viewing the channel.

CBS is the most watched HD content in my home. If you have any thoughts as to what I can try to resolve this would be appreciated. BTW, I live in a residential area with no new physical changes.

Best regards,

Gregg

You might have too much preamplification, and a small change in signal input level can be putting you over the maximum input level of your tuner, Try removing the preamp, or put a Radio shack 6dB attenuator pad on the input side of the preamp if it has a 75 ohm input

Why is your FM trap out? Even if you need it out because you desire FM reception, you should at least experiment with it in to see if that makes a difference.

Anyone with a local reception problem should always include the name of the city they are in, the zip code, and whether they believe they are on high or low ground with respect to the local terrain.

I just finished and appointment with "the antenna man" from Beverly.

Before I was only getting the 2 PBS channels in Hi Def (channel master 3000 in the attick).

After, I am getting every channel including the new digital 38 and 56 (winegard 7800 on the roof).

What a differnece a day makes!

Mike, thanks for the reply. I live in West Warwick RI 02893. I do believe I am on high ground...I'll try implementing the trap when I get home...

Regards
Gregg

Originally posted by vfrjim
I still remember watching "Ask the Manager" on CH 38 way back when there was no cable tv and everything was OTA, that seems like so long ago...

Joe Dimino replaced Bill "spend a million" Flynn as GM and star of the show. I think Dana Hersey remained the interviewer. Dimino used to marvel at how well this show defied its ratings. He used to ridicule Flynn for some poor programming choices that crippled the station, including "Hazel".

DoctorG,

Maybe this is your WBZ problem:

http://new.100000watts.com/cgi-bin/call.pl?target=WVIT&x=20&y=10

It's only around 68mi from you at 270Deg West.As the seasons change,so does the propagational characteristics of signals coming in from different directions.Might swing your antenna around towards New Britain just to see what's there.If it's co-channel interference,it may not be easy to cure.

GregB

Originally posted by HDTVGeek
Last night I was getting ok video (occasional dropouts) but NO audio on 56.1. during prime time. Was 56 having problems or is this another audio problem unique to the DST50/51 crowd?

-Howard

Looks like you are correct: The Panasonic tuners (50-51) with the bad code can't handle multiple audio streams.

With my Samsung I found 2 audio tracks on ch 41. One was the regular audio, the other was silent. This was on the WB feed, I think, since it went back to 1 track for the 10 o'clock news.

My Panasonic model 50 with new code was also unable to receive any audio besides the silent track. Same problem as with WGBH-DT! Only Panasonic can fix this, hopefully before all the channels go multitrack!

Well, tried turning the fm trap on. No change. Turned the gain all the way down on the preamp. 19,20,42 all at 100%. 31 drops to 55-72% but remains fairly steady. 30 and 39 both now fluctuate from 00-100%.

Have not tried the attenuator yet. Will do this weekend. Also will remove preamp as well. I've got a Channel Master 4228 in the shed that I may try again. Did not have good initial results with it 4 mos. ago. BTW, the antenna is chimney mounted on a 10' mast.

Would anyone have a listing as to what stations are broadcasting from what towers?

Thanks
Gregg

anyone else get this problem? the audio would be fine, and then all of a sudden it would go dead, but the picture would still be fine. i noticed it during galaxyquest on 20 and thought it must be a problem with the station, but then i noticed it again on another channel (i think it was 30) and started to think it might be my tuner (myhd card).

bob

out of curiosity, for the myhd users, how many bars on the signal strength meter are you getting (annoying that there's no number, huh?)? i think there are a total of 7 or 8 bars, but i've never gotten more than 4 bars, and only briefly. usually, i'm only getting 1 or 2 bars (usually just 1). 20 seems to be my best station, blipping into the 3 and 4 bar range occasionally.

even with just 1 or 2 bars, though, i'm able to get a fairly good signal (steady picture with only occasional dropouts, if any). i'm wondering if the myhd calibration for signal strength is off.

also, for anyone in the cambridge area, what stations can you get? i'm in porter square, and i can get 20, 30, 31, 39, and 42 fairly well (the first day i hooked up the card, i could only get 20. over the next week, i "discovered" another channel or two every few days--it was like christmas!). i can get some sort of signal for 19 and 41 (i see the audio indicator flash on), but no picture. i'm using a rs double-bowtie, but i'll be getting a silver sensor soon. no pre-amp.

bob

Originally posted by jhe
Looks like you are correct: The Panasonic tuners (50-51) with the bad code can't handle multiple audio streams.

With my Samsung I found 2 audio tracks on ch 41. One was the regular audio, the other was silent. This was on the WB feed, I think, since it went back to 1 track for the 10 o'clock news.

My Panasonic model 50 with new code was also unable to receive any audio besides the silent track. Same problem as with WGBH-DT! Only Panasonic can fix this, hopefully before all the channels go multitrack!

While unique to the DST-50/51 I was actually somewhat curious whether these really can't handle multiple tracks or whether the stations just aren't properly sending those tracks. A little while back Mr H. posted some PSIP information showing that what WGBH was sending was actually invalid. While the Pannys seem to have poorer error handling ability than the other boxes, I was curious if the WLVI stream was also invalid. From what I've seen from Panasonic (I'm one of the many who sent the box in for repair and got it back with no change) no fix will be coming from them soon. If the stream is invalid at least we have another avenue to pursue with the stations.

Any new data, Mr H.?

-Howard

Originally posted by DoctorG
Well, tried turning the fm trap on. No change. Turned the gain all the way down on the preamp. 19,20,42 all at 100%. 31 drops to 55-72% but remains fairly steady. 30 and 39 both now fluctuate from 00-100%.

Have not tried the attenuator yet. Will do this weekend. Also will remove preamp as well. I've got a Channel Master 4228 in the shed that I may try again. Did not have good initial results with it 4 mos. ago. BTW, the antenna is chimney mounted on a 10' mast.

Would anyone have a listing as to what stations are broadcasting from what towers?

Thanks
Gregg
Gregg,

Your problem sounds to me like your antenna is slightly off target. I don't recall where you are located. I have had many, many comments and phone calls from viewers who say the 3021 or 4228 Channel Master antennas have worked when longer, more traditional, antennas have exhibited the problems you have. I do not like to see preamps used unless you live 60 miles or more from the towers. There are always exceptions to this rule, however. A long antenna means it is a very directional antenna. Your symptom sounds like you are looking at WBZ via a "side-lobe" on your antenna. Since WBZ is one of the high power DTV stations, the higher the power, the stronger the "side-lobes" will be on your antenna. The antenna moves a fraction of an inch and the picture goes away. I've seen it happen on my own antenna, which is a long Radio Shack VHF/UHF antenna - exactly the kind of antenna I tell folks NOT to use. I took care of my problems by finding a slightly different direction to point towards the towers and now I get all of the DTV stations very reliably. By the way, I have tried many DTV receivers but keep going back to my old, trusty first generation, early serial number, DTC-100.

Digital channels 2, 4, 5, 38, and 43 transmit from the WBZ tower in Needham.

Digital channel 7 transmits from their own tower in Newton

Digital channels 25 and 56 transmit from another tower in Needham, near the Newton line.

All of the towers are within a mile or so from each other.

Bob Hess
Director, Broadcast Operations/Engineering
WBZ-TV, WSBK-TV, WLWC-TV

Howard,

Be interesting if something more is wrong in the station PSIP's but I wouldn't count on it.

The WGBH-DT engineer has assured me that their signal is correct now and my problem is in my tuner.

Also note my old Panasonic 50 with old code still works.

And someone has posted here that the Panasonics (50-51's) with new code use the lower PID audio track when they should be using the highest, or vice-versa (I forget) in violation of the specs for PSIP audio. This makes me believe only Panasonic can fix this. In fact to fix it right they should as a minimum give us a button to switch among all the audio tracks as can be done with the Samsung and probably most all other tuners.

Bob Hess, while we are on the topic of antenna locations, where is channel 28(WLWC)'s tower located? It says New Bedford but I get a strong signal from it when pointed more north then east from my location opposed to WLNE 6 which I am betting the tower is located for them. Also, is there a target date for channel 28 to be live for HD?

Thanks,

Jim

Originally posted by vfrjim
Bob Hess, while we are on the topic of antenna locations, where is channel 28(WLWC)'s tower located? It says New Bedford but I get a strong signal from it when pointed more north then east from my location opposed to WLNE 6 which I am betting the tower is located for them. Also, is there a target date for channel 28 to be live for HD?

Thanks,

Jim
Jim,

Channel 28's tower is located just north of New Bedford and puts a potent signal out over Rhode Island and southern Mass. It is a directional antenna so coverage in the direction of Boston is not great. Same will be the case for the DTV, which will be on channel 22.

Our DTV filing has been held up for a very long time and we have yet to be granted a permit from the FCC to begin construction. The delay involves interference potential between our channel 22 and DTV channel 23. Once we receive the permit, we will proceed as fast as we can. Unlike our Boston UPN, we will actually have some HD content with the WB shows we air at 10 PM.

Bob

Bob, thanks for the detailed response. I live in West Warwick, RI, about 45-50 miles from Needham as the crow flies. I'm going to take out the preamp this weekend and see what happens. As far as the "side-lobes" I don't think that's the problem. I moved the rotor click by click and monitored the signal. Could not get it to stableize. What's funny is I had great reception on WBZ-DT since I first put up the antenna 4 months ago and this only started happening this past week. I do have the 4228 that I'll pull out as well. The 4228 didn't work out too well initially but I still have it.

Thanks for the info on the towers as well.

MAX HD, I did try to tune in 35 but did not get a blip on the radar. Turned the antenna all the way around step by step. Thanks.

Regards
Gregg

Gregg,

You mentioned you checked Ch35 in your last post.I'm sure you meant Ch30.

I thought WVIT-30 could be a possible problem,as the Ardman site showed your area as just below Grade B for WVIT-30.As for DT-39,if you get the analog channel on Ch38 with very little snow and no major ghosting,it should come in fine.At least there's no other station on 39 to interfere.

Good luck on finding a solution,
GregB

Originally posted by DoctorG
Have not tried the attenuator yet.

Ah, the voodoo!!! Will try that again too.

Tim

Well, just got off the roof. Replaced the channel master 4248 yagi with the 4228 bow tie and took the amplifier out of the mix. The extreme top of the 4228 is 8' above my roof line. Here's the signal I'm getting now:

19 (2-1 WGBH-DT) 93-100%
20 (5-1 WCVB-DT) 100%
30 (4-1 WBZ-DT) unlocked to 58% avg around 24%
31 (25-1 WFXT-DT) 24-30%
39 (38-1 WSBK-DT) 15-30%
41 (56-1 WLVI-DT) unlocked to 6%
42 (7-1 WHDH-DT) 79-86%

Again, WBZ-DT used to be my most reliable reception. Now in the last 2 weeks it's almost off the charts. According to Bob Hess, 2, 4, 5, 38, and 43 transmit from the WBZ tower in Needham. 2 and 5 come in great for me but 4 and 38 do not.

vfrjim who lives about 2-3 miles south of me is not having this issue. Could I be experiencing problems from local uhf channels 25,28,36? Would notch filters help?

The only thing that has changed around me recently is a next door neighbor who is east of me installed a directv dish that faces southwest. Could that be reflecting some signal the the antenna is picking up?

Would raising the antenna help? Seeing I'm getting strong signals from WBZ's tower (chs 2 and 5) my thinking is it already has a pretty good line of sight. If I do elect to lengthen it, what would be the longest combined length (pre and pro rotor) using a chimney mount without using guy wires? Right now the mast attached to the chimney is 6' and the piece attached to the rotor is 3'. I'm thinking of replacing the 6' with 10'. I would assume it would be best to keep the piece after the rotor fairly short to minimize stress on the rotor.

Any and all advice appreciated.

Regards,
Gregg

Raising or lowering by even a few inches can make a difference. Also lateral movement can help. Try moving the mast from one side of the chimney to another if raising or lowering doesn't help. I had a dead zone in my attic before going to the roof, moving the antenna 1-2 feet laterally cleared it up.

I had my roof antenna (4228 / rotor / pre-amp) professionally installed by NE Antenna in Nashua. The installer walked around the roof with a spectrum analyzer to find the best location to maximize all of the signals. I ended up going to 20 feet with guy wires. I am very pleased with the results, I get all but 41 at 100% signal strength (41 varies from 18-37%, not watchable, but it was not online when I had the antenna installed). The Boston stations are 69-71 km from my location (about 45 miles).

Out of curiosity, what kind of signal to you get from analog 38? That might help identify the source of the problem.

From the numbers you published, it sounds like the pre-amp was helping, I would try that on the 4228. Also, try moving the mast to the other side of the chimney before attempting to raise or lower it.

Here are links to some useful information about installing roof antennas:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmig5.htm
http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmig6.htm

Good luck,
-Dave

Additional notes:

Have you tried unplugging your E86 since you started having problems?

My Toshiba DST-3000 started reporting low signal levels, when it didn't seem like it should. I unplugged it, waited about 30 secs, plugged it back in and things worked better. Some kind of fluke problem, I suppose, but it is an easy thing to try.

Also, a general note for antenna pre-amp users: make sure you are plugged into the antenna feed and not the sat feed or you could get DC voltage from the sat feed that could mess up your pre-amp. This won't be a problem if a diplexer is used to combine antenna and sat, because a diplexer blocks DC to the antenna input. The receiver's antenna feed won't be supplying any DC voltage. With a diplexer you would place the powered end of the pre-amp just before the antenna input to the diplexer to feed the amplified signal to the diplexer.

-Dave

Was Top Gun on UPN 38 in HD last night? I was too busy watching Saving Private Ryan to check.

Was Top Gun on UPN 38 in HD last night?

Nope, so far I have not seen any HD on UPN38, I thought we were going to see some HD movies atleast :)

But I did watch Top Gun while recording Saving Private Ryan on my HiPix, now I can watch that with no commercials :) God, I love technology...

quick question vfrjim does the Hipix record in HD to the hard drive

quick question vfrjim does the Hipix record in HD to the hard drive
Yes it does, lots of info on it is in the Home Theater Computers area of these boards, for the 200 minutes of Saving Private Ryan it took approx 28 Gig of space. One of my favorite features of the HiPix is the auto-commercial detection/skip :)

Jim

Dave, thanks for the response. Yes I've unplugged the E-86 to no avail. The MyHD card gives me a total of two tuners and I'm getting the same results on both. I get a snowy picture from analog 38 but get pretty strong signal on RI analog 28 and 36.

Regarding the antenna placement, this is not a new installation. It had been running fine since July. First hint of trouble came watching last Sunday's Patriots game. Coincidentally, WBZ-DT had equipment issues at that time.

The question I'm asking is what could have changed overnight that would cause my most reliable station to fluctuate from 100% to unlocked. Spoke with vfrjim last night and we're going to try testing the cable run, thinking something could be shorting out somewhere. Going to try changing the 6' section of mast to 10' before the rotor and see if that helps as well.

Regards,
Gregg

Bob Hess,

Good job. Glad to see you're still on top of things, now that you are done!

I lost all three new channels last week, or sometime on the weekend: 34, 41 and 39 due to PSIP problems using my Samsung tuner.

But a couple of hours later 39 was back to normal. 34 and 41 were still bad when I checked early this AM.

Bob Hess,

So how bad does it look for WLWC? Will they give you some power up toward MA at all? Or maybe switch you to another channel?

I get 28 analog in Lexington, and was counting on getting the digital 22, but sounds like I may not get it!

I am missing channel 35 also, due to their super low power.

Put the 4248 back up this afternoon between rainstorms. left the preamp attached. Able to watch all major Boston DTV stations (no WLVI-DT) without dropouts with the exception of WBZ-DT (sigh!). I'm just at a loss. Someday it will be figured out.

Gregg

BTW, bbobbo, I get full bars on my MyHD signal indicator on the stronger channels.

I finally have gotten most of my equipment hooked up and running with HDTV reception (Sony Wega II 60" to be installed today!). Here are the measurements I made last evening:

Location: Jamestown, RI
Date/Time: 11-12-02 @ 10:00 P.M.
Distance from Needham Towers: Approx 58 Mi

Equipment used:
STB: DTC-100
Antenna A - Rooftop older rotor VHF/UHF
Antenna B - Rabbit Ears!



Channel Station Signal (Ant A) Signal (Ant B)
2--------WGBH-SD-----------78-----------82
4--------WBZ-DT------------93-----------87
5--------WCVB-DT-----------88-------No Lock
7--------WHDH-DT-----------82-----------71
23-------??????------------47-----------58
25-------WFXT-DT-----------71-----------46
38-------WSBK-DT-----------91-----------83
56-------WLVI-DT-----------58-----------40

Originally posted by woz
Was Top Gun on UPN 38 in HD last night? I was too busy watching Saving Private Ryan to check.
WBZ-DT will be airing Top Gun in HD this Saturday from Noon - 2 PM. This movie will only air on the HD side. WBZ-TV (analog) will air another movie at that time. We will be inserting some very nice CBS high definition promotional spots to fill the holes in the movie so be sure to check them out.

Yes, ExpressVu has been informed.

- Bob

I see quite a few people from the southern NH area that have posted here. I am curious, who is the furthest north that has a steady signal from the boston towers. I am looking into getting HD, but can't justify the expense if I can't get the boston locals.

Just an FYI, I am located just outside of Concord, NH and have no antenna restrictions.

Thank

John

Hello Irocya,

I live in the N. Eastern part of Manchester and receive almost all the Boston DTV stations at a level of 88 - 95 on my DTC-100. The exception right now is WB (56) which is broadcasting at low power. If I position my antenna just right I get about a 35 for a level.

Being in Concord (over 60 miles from Boston) you are definitely going to need a very large antenna (high gain) and a pre-amp.

Hopefully someone else from your area can respond with there results from Concord.

Good Luck!

I removed the preamp redid all the f-connectors. I now have a direct connection to the Channel Master 4248 yagi. With the antenna pointing NE at about 26 deg I get the following:

19 (2-1 WGBH-DT) 100%
20 (5-1 WCVB-DT) 100%
30 (4-1 WBZ-DT) 0 - 30%
31 (25-1 WFXT-DT) 51-58%
39 (38-1 WSBK-DT) 70%
41 (56-1 WLVI-DT) 0 to 6%
42 (7-1 WHDH-DT) 79%

If I rotate the antenna about 30 deg east to about 56 deg, I pretty much lose signal on all stations except WBZ-DT which will fluctuate but give me a pretty stable picture with some dropouts.

Can anyone describe what might be happening here? If by moving the antenna away from all the other signals thereby taking their signals off line WBZ is strong enough to stand on its own without a direct line of sight. If the antenna is positioned properly to grab all stations, they seem to be interfering in some way with the WBZDT signal. Anyone with any thoughts?

To refresh, I am in West Warwick, RI 02893 and had no trouble receiving reliable signal from all major Boston stations until the last week and a half when my problems with WBZDT sprang up.

Regards,
Gregg

Watched WCVB's Chronicle in HD again tonight. Very high quality picture. Is this the 1st locally-produced HD content?
-JR

how can we get notified in advance of HD chronicle or any other local HD shows ?!

how can we get notified in advance of HD chronicle or any other local HD shows ?!

I 2nd that because when I checked titantv.com tonite while setting up what I planned to record, it did not show that Chronicle was going to be in HD:(

The last time that it was in HD they showed the changing colors of Leaves in Vermont, Mass, NewHampshire and Maine, it's a gorgeous view to behold, luckily I have it on my harddrive.

Jim

Hey, Jim. How did you happen to get it on your harddrive:) ?

Gregg

HDTVGeek raised the question of WGBH and the PSIP for the audio channels. I haven’t been able to test WLVI yet, just too weak a signal here!

The WGBH PSIP looks fine to me except for one minor problem, which should help those lame STBs rather than hinder them. That is the second audio channel is tagged as being a "Visually Impaired" associated service, when it is, in actual fact, a main audio service.

A bit of background on the Digital Telivision Standard.. There are 8 types of audio service. Two "main" service types, and 6 "associated" services. Typically you would select a "main" audio service, and combine it with some number of "associated" services.

The two main types are "Complete Main" (CM) (complete program, associated services optional), and "Music and Effects" (ME) (normally requires at least a "Dialogue" associated service). The associated services are Visually Impaired (VI), Hearing Impaired (HI) , Dialogue (D), Commentary (C), Emergency (E), and voice-over (VO).

So, for example, a movie could be broadcast as a Music and Effects audio service, along with separate English, French, and Spanish Dialogues. Your TV, or STB, should let you pick which dialogue you want.

Right now, WGBH combines both the main audio and the descriptive video tracks as a single audio program. They could broadcast just the extra descriptions, and let your TV/STB combine it with the main audio track. In this case, labeling it as Visually Impaired would then be correct. As it is currently broadcast, it is a completed audio program, and should really be labeled as a second "Complete Main" service.

A channel is not limited to one main audio services, and associated services are supposed to be linked to their main service, so that your TV/STB knows which goes with which.
_____
Even my 20 year old NEC TV has a SAP button. I would expect any ATSC TV/STB to at least have the equivalent capability. I think you should be complaining bitterly to your STB manufacturer, rather than picking on WGBH.

As I write this, I am listening to the BBC world service on WGBH-SD’s second audio channel. WGBH will be pledging later this month, and if you can't avoid it altogether, it's nice to switch to the BBC while you wait for that pledge break to end!

_Paul

Hey, Jim. How did you happen to get it on your harddrive ?

OK, a big thank you to DoctorG that recorded it on his MyHD card and burnt them on a DVD so that I could enjoy the beautiful Fall Foliage of New England :)

Jim

It is only an SD signal, obviously strong here in Southern NH. Signal strength is 93-100 about 40-50 degrees off-axis, but I am only about 24km (~15mi) from the tower. The low power permit is only 7.30 KW ERP, full power will be 96.1 kW ERP. The WNDS directional antenna is strongest transmitting due north.

Picture quality (PQ) is pretty bad... Looks to be about VHS quality (Cheers is currently being broadcast).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WNDS

-Dave

I wonder if you are getting a multi-path signal arriving mostly out-of-phase that is cancelling out the primary signal?

Did you ever try moving the antenna to the other side of the chimney?

You should walk the roof with the antenna and see if you have the same problem everywhere on the roof. That would require that you have someone watching the signal, or, if the E86 is like the DST-3000 with an audio signal strength indicator, turn the volume way up so you can here it from the roof!

-Dave

50 is the last of the channels i think. thats great news its on!!

-nate

Originally posted by DoctorG
If I rotate the antenna about 30 deg east to about 56 deg, I pretty much lose signal on all stations except WBZ-DT which will fluctuate but give me a pretty stable picture with some dropouts.

Can anyone describe what might be happening here? If by moving the antenna away from all the other signals thereby taking their signals off line WBZ is strong enough to stand on its own without a direct line of sight. If the antenna is positioned properly to grab all stations, they seem to be interfering in some way with the WBZDT signal. Anyone with any thoughts?

To refresh, I am in West Warwick, RI 02893 and had no trouble receiving reliable signal from all major Boston stations until the last week and a half when my problems with WBZDT sprang up.

This may be consistent with MAX HD's speculation that interference may be coming from WVIT analog 30. You responded to his concern that you did not receive a glimmer on their DTV 35, but the interference he was contemplating would have come from their analog channel 30, not from their corresponding digital channel 35.

When you get your best results on Boston DTV 30 by aiming your 4248 Yagi antenna 30 degrees off-target from WBZs's transmitter, it is possible, and even likely, that while you are reducing WBZ's signal a little, you are reducing your antenna's pickup of channel 30 analog from Hartford by even more than that because of where it hits your antenna. You may be enjoying your most reliable WBZ performance when WVIT is hitting your antenna at a polar "trough" between sidelobes.

If I were in a desperate situation, I could set up a second antenna pointed at the offending signal and set up the two antennas to phase cancel that signal, but doing that is likely beyond your budget or technical expertise. Cheaper remedies include horizontally stacking 4248s, using natural shielding by placing your antenna for channel 30 lower and to the east side of your house so that your house is shielding it, or even constructing an RF shield and putting it off to the Hartford side of your Yagi. I'd try using the screen from the 4228 as an RF shield to protect the 4248, and place it a few feet to the Hartford side of your Yagi and "kiddie corner" to that transmission line, and centered on the Yagi dipole elements.

As far as WLVI-41 is concerned, they might be running at less than full power. and if so, your reliability problem is coming from channel 42. I'd call WLVI and ask them if they are at full power.

Dave and Mike, thanks for the replies. vfrjim was over the other evening and we were discussing walking the roof as soon as the rain subsided. Looks like we'll have some clearing the next 3 days. (pause while I go check something).

I just returned from my setup. Reading AntAltMike's comment about MAX HD's speculation that interference may be coming from WVIT analog 30, I switched to the myHD card and manually added analog 30. The first time I tried to move the antenna to 270 deg and tune to analog 30 I selected it on the E86 which showed channel unavailable not realizing at that time that I was just getting a menu response.

Just now I turned to 270 deg and WVIT analog 30, although snowy, is showing full bars on MyHD. It seems now I know what I'm contending with. I would think raising it would not solve the problem and that horizontal movement along the house as has been suggested would be more effective. Don't know if that would work as terrain towards Hartford lowers.

It looks like an RF shield would be the best course of action. Mike, what other materials could be used. I'm game for anything.

Thanks again to all who have responded with suggestions. Will keep you posted.

Best regards,
Gregg

To clarify, Dave is addressing a different possibility than MAX HD and I are. Dave is speculating that the interference may be coming from a second path of DTV 30 from Boston, whereas Max HD is contemplating unique, interfering signal coming directly from a Hartford transmitter. Moving the antenna horizontally along the roof can often remedy problems caused by a "bounced" signal, but if the cause of your problem is the Hartford analog channel 30 transmission, then you'd want try mounting you antenna LOWER than your roof peak so that the house would actually block that undesired signal.

A couple of years ago, I serviced a private cable system that was getting intense double images on several channels and found that the interfering signal was bouncing off the University of Maryland football stadium, a little over 2 miles away. This reception site, though only about ten miles from the transmitters, was on relatively low terrain and did not even have a line of site to the transmitters because of that, so the on-target signals were weak to begin with. I was able to remedy the problem by moving this antenna both laterally and LOWER than it had been. My intended signal strength was lower at that new location, as the degrading effect of the higher terrain became even more severe, but the effect that this move had on the bounced signal was even greater, so it cleared up the pictures.

I, of course, measure signal strength with a field strength meter, whereas you are relying on the so-called signal strength meter in your set top box, which is actually displaying some very useful but ill-defined assessment of signal quality, so if you locate your antenna to the east of your home and slightly below the roofline, then even though the absolute strength of your signal levels, as measured in dBmv, would be measurably weaker, the signal strength indication produced by your STB's signal evaluator might become numerically greater and would obviously be a more reliable indicator of its suitability for your purpose.

I believe that "chicken wire" would be an adequate shielding material at UHF frequencies, and others in this forum have claimed to have used it to improve the desired reflection from old, ChannelMaster parabolic antennas, but I haven't actually tried it myself. The good thing about using the screen from the 4228 is that you already have it and it is nice and stiff so it will be easy to manipulate it during testing. If you find that it helps, then you can seek out an alternate shield at that time.

Mike, do you sleep much?:) I appreciate the quick responses. My peak runs from 250 deg to 70 deg which rules out using it to block analog 30 transmitting from 270 deg.

This may sound crazy, but I have a very large oak tree that I can secure the antenna to, preferably the 4228 as it is vertical and the offending signal could be more easily blocked by the large trunk of the tree. I thinking the tree when in full foliage would only hamper the Boston signals minimally. I this pheaseable?

Other than that it seems the RF shield would be the way to go. What about using the 4228 as the antenna and adding chicken wire to the left side blocking the analog 30 signal?

Regards,
Gregg

Originally posted by DoctorG
... it seems the RF shield would be the way to go. What about using the 4228 as the antenna and adding chicken wire to the left side blocking the analog 30 signal?

That's one way I've been picturing this. And by kiddie corner, I mean that the shield should be on about a 225/45 line.

Originally posted by DoctorG
I have a very large oak tree that I can secure the antenna to, preferably the 4228 as it is vertical and the offending signal could be more easily blocked by the large trunk of the tree. I this pheaseable?


Only if there are no feasants in it. :D

You should first determine that shielding can help, which you can best do with a movable shield, before you then try to replace or augment it with a natural, tree shield.

Originally posted by AntAltMike
Only if there are no feasants in it. :D



Thanks for the laugh. Must have been a brain phart:rolleyes:

I'll post a follow-up after I've tried a few things.

Thanks again

Gregg

Well, vfrjim was kind enough to come over today and help straighten things out. To make a long story shorter, after attempting shielding (no go) mounting on east side of the house and lower to use the peak as a blocker(no good either) we started toying with angling the antenna by hand which led us to trying an additional 3' at the original location of the chimney.

Things were looking up. Was able to get useful signal on all but WSBK-DT (WLVI_DT was never in the mix) without the preamp. Being somewhat concerned with the height and the 6' section we temporarily used at the top of the rotor I put things back as they were thinking I would pick up a 10' mast to replace the 6' base.

With the 4248 now re-attached to the 3' top mast I asked Jim to indulge me one more time with angling as I manually maneuvered the antenna. I was using my cell to call the house and communicate signal strength. As my arms were getting tired I sat down on the roof. "Leave it right there!" came the voice on the phone. "What?", I said.

Apparently me sitting lowered the antenna about 7 feet from where it had been permanetly attached. The signals we were getting were consistent to the ones at 13 feet. When I first tried lowering last week on HDorBust's recommendation, I did not have any results and I certainly didn't think to drop it down 7'. These are the signals we ended up with:

19 (2-1 WGBH-DT) 72%
20 (5-1 WCVB-DT) 100%
30 (4-1 WBZ-DT) 72%
31 (25-1 WFXT-DT) 51%
39 (38-1 WSBK-DT) 18%
41 (56-1 WLVI-DT) 0 to 6%
42 (7-1 WHDH-DT) 79%

We'll in conclusion, I've sacrificed WSBK-DT for WBZ-DT which is a no brainer. I've taken the preamp out of the loop as well. It just looks like I'll need a distribution amp as the signal degrades a bit splitting it to the 2 HD tuners.

Many thanks to vfrjim, AntAltMike, MAX HD, HDorBust, and Bob Hess for their assistance in helping me work through this.

Regards,
Gregg

Originally posted by DoctorG
Thanks for the laugh. Must have been a brain phart:rolleyes:


Sounds like phlatulence! :eek:

Glag you got WBZ back, definitely the best selection of HD programming.

Best wishes with the new installation!
-Dave

I dont know if there would be any reason for anyone to check, but NH's Channel 50 WNDS has their digital transmitter up. I first noticed 35-1 this morning and (not surprisngly, since I can see the tower out my bedroom window!) it is strong and clear. I wonder how far into Mass they reach ?

Top Gun in HD on WBZ tomorrow (Saturday). Noon - 2 PM. Only on the HD side.

Bob

Originally posted by etcarey
I dont know if there would be any reason for anyone to check, but NH's Channel 50 WNDS has their digital transmitter up. I first noticed 35-1 this morning and (not surprisngly, since I can see the tower out my bedroom window!) it is strong and clear. I wonder how far into Mass they reach ?

Not quite to Boston yet, at least on an indoor antenna. I see a signal, and but can't lock on for any length of time. I assume they're still at low power. By comparision, I get 59 very well. I'm six stories up facing north...

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Top Gun in HD on WBZ tomorrow (Saturday). Noon - 2 PM. Only on the HD side.

Bob

Is Top Gun a feed from the Network or is it locally originated? If local, what is the source media used (ie...dvd upconverted to 1080i)?

-JR

Originally posted by Bob Hess
Top Gun in HD on WBZ tomorrow (Saturday). Noon - 2 PM. Only on the HD side.

Bob

Looks good so far, Bob!

Is the audio stream supposed to be DD 2.0 or DD 5.1? I vaguely recall expecting 5.1.

- Dave

ps. The "CBS in HDTV" commercials were awesome!!! It's so cool to see the network advertising HDTV within commercials like that. Both the sitcom/movie commercial and the CBS Sports commercial made me proud of both CBS and the fact that this new-fangled technology called HDTV may actually take off.

Thanks again, Bob!

- Dave

I recall that CBS and/or WBZ is not yet set up for DD 5.1.
I agree that this is really cool. I can show this stuff off to friends before 8pm!
The beginning of the movie said that it was formatted to fit my screen. Does this mean this is the 4:3 Pan&Scan Version that is stretched (say 14x9). Bob, can we get this every weekend?!
All those in favor of HD feeds on weekend days, say, "I"!!!

-JR

Good call, John. "Top Gun" is a 2.35:1 movie, so it had to be zoomed in to fit 16:9 (~1.78:1) screens.

- Dave

I'm watching Top Gun right now (actually it's a commercial) and it looks great. However, I do have a question for everyone else watching it. Are there scenes missing? Goose just died, and I haven't seen the volleyball scene or the scene in the bar with he and his wife yet. My fiancee noticed this and was wondering what the deal is. Those were her two favorite scenes! :)

Oh yeah, I almost forgot...WBZ rocks for bringing us Top Gun in HD!

The film has been edited to fit in the 2 hr block..

-JR

It's been "edited for content", and they definitely brought the movie down to TV-PG. I'm not sure if the volleyball scene and the Meg Ryan bar scene (with the piano, right?) were too intense or just cut to fit in the 2 hours allotted. It's a 109-minute movie, so with the 45/15 rule (45 minutes of show for 15 minutes of commercials), they'd have to trim minutes somewhere.

- Dave

How about just rating it for mature audiences and do not edit, just a thought...

Originally posted by johnrobinson
Is Top Gun a feed from the Network or is it locally originated? If local, what is the source media used (ie...dvd upconverted to 1080i)?

-JR
The movie was aired from our studios and not from CBS. It is part of the Paramount movie package that is mentioned frequently on the forum. Any editing was done by the syndicator and not by us.

CBS gave us the promos to air. We used them to fill local "holes" in the movie. All upconverted spots came from Paramount.

WBZ has 5.1 capability. I believe the movie was not encoded in 5.1 Dolby but I will check.

- Bob

Originally posted by jckessler
Not quite to Boston yet, at least on an indoor antenna. I see a signal, and but can't lock on for any length of time. I assume they're still at low power. By comparision, I get 59 very well. I'm six stories up facing north...

Turns out that 35-1 is making it to the Western suburbs of Boston ... not quite as strong as 59-1, but better signal quality readings than the Needham towers. Needham is only 9 miles away (and presents multipath challenges!) Seems the effort to get NHPTV-DT 57 (70 miles away) made getting 35-1 a piece of cake.

Reception problems, Boston Metro area:

Hi. I live in Union Sq, Somerville close to the Cambridge line (by Inman Sq), which is within the Metropolitan Boston/Cambridge area. I've been having very spotty luck with those cheap set top indoor antennas and have been researching the purchase of an outdoor antenna. Since I live so close to the Needham towers I expected reception to be a snap, but it looks like I'm seeing a lot of signal bounce off of nearby buildings and such, with lots of ghosting on all the UHF channels.

So, what type of antenna would folks here suggest? Should I go with one of those omnidirectional things that look like a flying saucer like the Channel Master 3000 "smartenna"? Or should I go with a more traditional directional antenna like the CM 4248? Or the multi-bow type like the CM 4228? I'd very much prefer to avoid a rotor arrangement. If I need to go with a directional antenna due to building interference, would it make sense to install two directionals pointed at separate towers and merge the signal down one coax lead to my TV? I've been to antennaweb.org, and while it provided a map of the local TV towers, and it said I should be looking for an antenna with the "Green" and/or "Yellow" label, I'm still confused.

Finally, can anyone recommend a contractor for a professional installation? I can't seem to find anyone in the Boston area who does antenna installation (not surprising, everyone around here has cable). BTW: I own the house, so I have roof rights.

Thanks for any suggestions and help,
--Maynard

Hey Maynard,

I live very close to you, just north of Central Sq. I'm on the sixth floor of an apt building, facing away from the Needham towers.

I get good reception with the Zenith Silver Sensor, an indoor antenna. There's a lot of info on these forums about this particular model. It's very directional, so it helps at locations with lots of multipath, which it sounds like you have. Circuit City in Somerville has them, or you can order one from buy.com. I'm sure the outdoor route would work better, but you might want to give the Silver Sensor a try.

Pretty much all of the towers for digital stations are in Needham, so a rotor may or may not be necessary unless you want to try to pull in NH stations or the Spanish channel (23).

Originally posted by jmaynardg
Finally, can anyone recommend a contractor for a professional installation? I can't seem to find anyone in the Boston area who does antenna installation (not surprising, everyone around here has cable). BTW: I own the house, so I have roof rights.

I can highly recommend Pete Charbeau of Suburban Satellite. He helped me install my satellite dish, HD OTA antenna, and run a BUNCH of cables back in early May when I moved to a new house. He has the proper equipment to make sure things are pointed in the right direction and does very clean work (does pretty much whatever it takes to run cables through walls to make for a very discrete install). He ran cable to 4 rooms for me, all home run in the basement. The rooms got:

1) Master Bedroom - 2 CAT5 (phone, ethernet), 4 RG-6 (satellite, FM antenna, and a little room for future use).

2) Office - 2 CAT5 (phone, ethernet), 6 RG-6 (satellite, FM antenna, 2nd zone A/V feed from my main system).

3) Bedroom #2 - 2 CAT5 (phone, ethernet), 6 RG-6 (satellite, 2nd zone A/V feed from my main system).

4) Family room (main system) - 2 CAT5 (phone, ethernet), 10 RG-6 (satellite X 6, feed from 2nd zone on my preamp, FM antenna, etc.).

He can be reached at 508-653-4890. He isn't cheap, but he does great work, and has a great 4 legged assistant named Cecil (who likes water and taking naps). Despite the name of his business, he'll do pretty much any in house low voltage wiring you want and install antennas, etc. Tell him I referred you and he still might help you out :).

Did anyone notice if ice on your antennae was attenuating signals? It drove me nuts yesterday here in Worcester. Of course, this doesn't apply to you indoor antenna guys! :-)

-JR

Is tomorrow's Chronicle going to be in HD? My friend is going to be in it, and I'd love to have him over if it is.

Thanks,
Jim

OK. Buried somewhere in this thread the answer probably lerks.

What's the latest on the Providence, RI stations?

Originally posted by mdodge
OK. Buried somewhere in this thread the answer probably lerks.

What's the latest on the Providence, RI stations?

mdodge, jhe posted a recent update of the area stations in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1537699&highlight=providence#post1537699) .

Gregg

There has been a lot of discussion recently about indoor versus outdoor antennas as of late, so I thought I would post my experience with both.

When I first got my Samsung SIRT-T150 tuner a year ago this November, I wanted to get it up and running immediately, so I went for a quick fix and attached a Winegard 4 element to the attic rafters with a piece of 1" PVC pipe. The location was chosen solely to minimize the degree to which it would annoy my wife. With this simple setup I am able to get 2, 4, 5, 7, 25, 38 and 41. I was even able to get both 2 & 44 (when 'GBH was testing) in spite of the problems others were reporting with this tuner. But when 'GBH decided that HD (and responding to member's inquiries) was beneath them, I decided to see if I could pull in 57 (WENH - NHPVT) and get some of the PBS HD material. So I installed a 10' rooftop outdoor mast (with a quick tilt up mechanism for easy adjustments) on the peak of my roof, a rotor, a 30 db adjustable gain pre-amp and a RS Yagi antenna. I carefully sited it to give what looked like the best line of site from my rooftop. I even used a friends GPS receiver to align the rotor.

Yet, with all of this, I was able to receive 57 for all of about ten seconds (just long enough to change the PSIP to 80-3). And to rub salt in the wound, I could no longer get all of the Boston stations reliably. No combination of equipment (I even tried the Winegard up there) or lack of equipment (like the pre-amp) would make things work. So after months of neighbors staring up at my precarious trips to the peak of my roof, I'm back to my attic setup, in its original location (other attic locations don't work either), PVC pipe and all. And reception is back to perfect (WHDH replaced their ATSC encoder last week, so even those minor dropouts have disappeared).

So I have concluded that at least a far as antenna choices go, it really is better to be lucky than good.

Has anyone else in my general area been able to pick up 57?

- Scott

Just wondering if anyone in the area with a Hughes E-86 receiver is having a problem getting WHDH-DT? I lost picture and sound early this afternoon on 42-1 and have not gotten it back as of 12:58AM. I'm getting a strong signal (about 79%) but get no indication of even trying to lock on. I also have a DTC-100 and with a 50% signal (connected to the same antenna as the E-86) have no trouble getting a signal lock. This is the first time I've had this problem, and have had this setup for quite some time. All other Boston digitals come in with no problem on the E-86. I'm even getting 31-1 with only a 40% signal and no dropouts. It's really perplexing. If anyone else has an E-86(or a clone of the E-86), I would appreciate a response on whether you are having any problem.

Benji,

Mon eve, I couldn't get 42 either, even though all the other Boston channels were coming in fine (I was watching WBZ) and I usually get 'HDH OK. And this is on an RCA DTC-100, so I assumed something was wrong at the station. Didn't even check signal quality since I was only skimming during commercial breaks.

Anybody else notice anything?

Bill

Benji and Bill, I was getting good signal last night (86) on my E86 but no picture or sound. Did not get it on myHD card as well. Thought it was trouble with the station.

Gregg

My E86 shows 100 on the signal for 42 (7-1), but no video or sound. No problem with my SIRT165, though the Samsung does have problems with 41 (56-1) that the E86 has no problems with.

Originally posted by Floobydust
............

Has anyone else in my general area been able to pick up 57?

- Scott

I live in Lexington very near Burlington Mall. I am also behind a hill from channel 57. I get 57 quite well except in bad storms, with just occasional drop-outs.

I use dual Blake JBX21-B antennas, with rotor and tilter.

Tuners make a difference too. So far the Zenith I just got looks best.

Note: It helps that I am blocked from Needham by a different hill, so my preamp doesn't overload, and I don't get blocking from channel 56 being too strong.

jhe, could you point me to where you purchased the tilter?

Thanks
Gregg

perhaps coincidential, but 7-1 is the only station that I get full EPG information for on the T165 (38-1 shows 3 hour blocks of DTV program, the rest show "No Information"). I just hooked up the T165 last night, so I'm not sure if it was giving EPG info when my E86 was able to receive 7-1.

Originally posted by DoctorG
jhe, could you point me to where you purchased the tilter?

Thanks
Gregg

If you want a package see Glenn's Mt Wilson thread, and go to his web site.

I made mine from a dish mover I got at Skyvision, along with the Pansat controller. I added some u bolts and braces from O'Conner Hardware, SS where I could find it, with locking nuts. U-bolts act as the hing and I have 2 sub masts with 2 cross arms and the whole thing swings out, moving both side by side UHF antennas.

The Pansat controller comes with an IR remote, so it is easy to use.

Note: I use the antennas level with no tilt mostly. I tilt for two conditions:

1 For distant signals like 57 when the atmosphere is reflective I can sometimes improve things by tilting up at close to 30 degrees.

2 When the ground is wet, I tilt up for local channel 42, which cuts down on my extra multipath problems with that channel.

Bob Hess - Over on the programming thread, there are a lot of conflicting reports regarding whether the Victoria's Secret fashion show tomorrow night will be in HD. Have you heard anything one way or the other? Thanks.

Joe

jhe, thanks for the info. Glenn's site is very informative...

Regards,
Gregg

* * * *

mdodge, jhe posted a recent update of the area stations in this thread .

Gregg

* * * *

Yes, thanks, I found it finally but, the information posted is gleaned from the FCC. What I wanted was what the stations themselves were forcasting. Guess I'll call them.

mdodge,

Good luck trying to get in touch with the stations. I've sent numerous e-mails never to get a response. I did happen to speak with an engineer at channel 12 at the beginning of Sept who told me they should be up by the end of the month. Now I see they have filed for an extension untill next year.

Gregg

Originally posted by jsirbak
Bob Hess - Over on the programming thread, there are a lot of conflicting reports regarding whether the Victoria's Secret fashion show tomorrow night will be in HD. Have you heard anything one way or the other? Thanks.

Joe
CBS is delivering it to the stations as 480I upconverted to 1080I.

Bob

I've been talking to various people at Panasonic for several months now concerning the SAP audio problems that many people have reported. After quite a bit of back and forth, I received this phone message response today:

"Hello.....this is Phil from Panasonic, I spoke to you this morning regarding your set top box. I sent it up to the engineer and he sent back an email saying that...it is a known problem. It is due to the way the audio streams are structured from the broadcaster. It's not considered a problem with the set top box. No plans are made to change the product in any way. He suggests that you contact your broadcaster for help. If you have any other problems or concerns, please give me a call back. Basically, that's all there is to say on that subject. Have a great day and thank you for using Panasonic. Bye."


Looks like I am back to square one.

I e-mailed Jim Shultis at WHDH earlier this afternoon about the WHDH problem. Jim said some changes were made to the PSIP data yesterday and this apparently caused the problem that I, and a few others are having receiving 42-1. He is working on it, and thanked me for the input. As of 4PM, still nothing on my Hughes.

NO issues on WHDH on my Samsung SIR-TS160, receiving fine here, one thing though, 7.2 showed up out of no where last nite, don't want to view SD so I removed it from my list.

Jim

Originally posted by Bob Hess
CBS is delivering it to the stations as 480I upconverted to 1080I.

Bob
So does this mean 16X9?

-JR

jhe, thank you for your reply. You are not far from me, so there may be some hope yet. Over time, I'll keep trying a few more locations to try for 57. If I can get it (even alone) on one setup, I will try to "combine" it with my PVC pipe antenna to cover everything.

- Scott

Still not receiving WHDH-DT on my Hughes E-86 tuner since mid-afternoon Monday. I have corresponded with station engineer Jim Shultis about this problem. I am about to send another e-mail to let him know that 42-1 is still dark as of 8:07AM. For those of you with Hughes (or Hughes clones) and others not receiving WHDH, Jim's email addy is: jshultis@WHDH.com. It appears that only the Hughes receivers have been affected by the PSIP changes made by WHDH Monday.

I am also having the same problem with my DST 3000.

Steve...please email Jim Shultis and let him know. The more people who communicate this to WHDH, the more urgency they will show in correcting the problem.

I will definetly do that. Also do you have any idea why I can't get channel 38-1 on this receiver everything else comes in great?

Steve...I get a pretty good signal on 38-1 down in Taunton (around 50%). On my Hughes, if the signal is around 37 or higher, it locks in pretty good. I don't know what your problem could be. 38-1 is on the same tower as 2-1, 4-1 and 5-1. If you are getting strong signals from those stations 38-1 should be strong as well. And you are considerably closer to Needham than I am. Have you tried a channel search?

Benji,

I have tried everything from channel searching to rebooting the receiver. I did have it once for a couple of hours but nothing since I have kind of given up on it. Maybe I will play with it again tonight to see if I have more succes. I find this very weird since I do get everything else. I have not been totally happy with the receiver and I am thinking of maybe getting another one but the price of these things is holding me back a little and is it worth dropping another 500.00 + dollars just to receive 1 additional channel?

Steve...If you think it is a problem with the receiver, is it still covered by warranty? If so, you can probably still exchange it. I exchanged my receiver 8 times with Tweeter in N. Attleboro until I finally got one that worked properly.

Benji,

I actually have exchanged it twice and this one seems to give me the least problems but I believe the warranty is up on it now. However I do have the Directv service plan so I am thinking about using them to possibly replace it.

On another note I tried emailing Jim at channel 7 but it keeps bouncing back saying they don't recognize user name. Are you sure this is the right address?

Steve...I originally emailed WHDH at their website and Jim Shultis responded. I have emailed him at the # I listed and he has answered me back. Try the problem line on their website if this # doesn't work for you. They have to know that I'm not the only one having this problem.

I emailed as well. Mine is a problem on a dish 6000.
Reply was

Thanks for letting us know. We changed the PSIP (program guide) code
Monday and it has caused your outage. We are working on the system to
"undo" the change and return your reception. Thanks for your patience

alv...thanks for emailing. It apparently is a problem for more than just Hughes receivers. I hope whatever the problem is, it doesn't mess up the PSIP program guide info I'm getting on my RCA. WHDH is the only Boston station sending program guide PSIP and I'd hate to lose that.

WHDH-DT is back up on my Hughes E86. I did nothing, it just came up when I selected it this time....

Gregg

Anyone else seeing lipsync problems on WHDH? Both Law and Order and now Leno have the voice about 1/2 second behind the picture. Quite annoying. The problem appears restricted to this channel.

I'm using a Zenith HDV420, BTW.

I too have WHDH-DT back on my Hughes E-86. And yes I'm seeing that slight lip-synch problem as well. However, I don't want to bring any more problems to Jim Shultis' attention, because I may wind up losing 42-1 again! It's someone else's turn.

I am also up and running. Benji I finally got the email to go through yesterday and believe it or not I finally got 38-1 to come in last night. I don't know why all of sudden it started coming in but I have about a 80% signal. My guess is that the leaves finally falling off the trees might have something to do with it.

Steve...got a response back from Jim Shultis this morning that they went back to the old software so everyone could view the NBC-HD lineup Tuesday. Today he purchased a Hughes E-86 receiver for the station so they can troubleshoot the problem we were having. They already had an RCA and Panasonic receiver which weren't affected by the software changes like the Hughes. Hopefully, we won't have the problem again. Congrats on getting 38-1. Incidentally all my digitals were coing in stronger than usual yesterday and this morning. Must have been atmospheric influence.

with this fog this morning, WLVI 41.1 was dieing off, thank god the fog lifted :) This was the first time I experienced fog and HDTV signals...

I am not seeing any signal.

Also 7-1 has been getting a lot of drop-outs.

-Dave

7-1 seems fine here. The high winds probably aren't helping reception of the high UHF channels, I'd bet.

7-1 is usually choppy here in Northborough, but breaking up more
than usual this evening.

HDTV Galaxy lists The Skinwalkers on tonight at 9 as being HD in 1080i. Does anyone think there is any possibility WGBH will show it this way? I think it is actually the first new program of this year on PBS in 1080i, and maybe WGBH will pass it through that way? (I can hope, can't I.)

SMK

Not a snowballs chance in ____!

Any chance CBS will broadcast the Pats in HD Thursday? Could they put the HD truck in Detroit on Thursday and have it in Alabama for Saturday's SEC game?

Originally posted by Benji
Not a snowballs chance in ____!

Anyone else not receiving Fox 25-1 tonight? My signal strength is at a solid 88, but I'm getting a whole-lotta-nuthin! :confused:

Anyone else not receiving Fox 25-1 tonight? My signal strength is at a solid 88, but I'm getting a whole-lotta-nuthin!

Fine here in RI, no problems.

Fine here, too.

Lip sync on WHDH seems improved. Not perfect, but not nearly as distracting as it was last week.

WCVB will air a New Chronicle in HDTV tonight at 7:30PM

A sunrise that will take your breath away. A rocky coast that draws painters and photographers. Lonely trails that promise peace and tranquility. Maine's Acadia National Park offers beauty around every bend.

Tonight's Chronicle was produced in 1080i High Definition Television and broadcast in standard definition on WCVB-TV Channel 5. The program will be broadcast in 720p HDTV on WCVB-DT digital television Channel 20.

Ok, so with your help I know ch 25-1 was up and running. Yet with a signal strength of 88 I see just a black screen. I also didn't see any messages at the bottom like "weak signal" or anything like that.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what might be the issue? All the other OTA signals are working like a charm!

Ross K. ...Thanks for the heads up on tonight's Chronicle. Will definately be watching!

Hi.

Just received this email from WB 56. Thought I'd pass it on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

WB56 PRESENTS ITS FIRST HIGH DEFINITION MOVIE
_
"Iron Giant" to Air on Thanksgiving from 8 p.m. - 10 p.m.
_
_
BOSTON, Tues., Nov. 26, 2002_ - WLVI-TV (WB56) will air its first High Definition movie, "Iron Giant," on November 28 from 8 p.m. - 10 p.m._ This WB Movie Event can be viewed in high definition on WLVI-DT (41).
_
"Iron Giant" is an animated film revolving around the friendship of a boy and his giant robot, featuring the voices of Jennifer Aniston, Harry Connick, Jr., and Vin Diesel.
_
"WB56 is thrilled to broadcast our first HDTV movie," said Franco La Pietra, chief engineer, WB56. "We are dedicated to providing our viewers with the highest quality programming, and this family-friendly feature is something everyone can enjoy."
_

PBS-HD demo loop back in operation on WGBH-DT 2-2 as of 4PM.

Benji,

I wonder if this means that WGBH will start passing through PBS HD programming. I did not watch Skinwalkers on Sunday (I taped it), and it is to be repeated tomorrow evening. I wonder if it will be in HD tomorrow?

I know, your standard answer is.....

SMK

Is there any way to get advance warning of the high definition airings of Chronicles greater than a day or two?

Now that my preamp is in the deep freeze, I got WLVI-DT for the first time this evening. Video was erratic (kept going black) and sound was very choppy. This is probably a signal strength issue.

Lip-Sync does appear to be a little off on WHDH.

Originally posted by RoyGBiv
Benji,

I wonder if this means that WGBH will start passing through PBS HD programming. I did not watch Skinwalkers on Sunday (I taped it), and it is to be repeated tomorrow evening. I wonder if it will be in HD tomorrow?

I know, your standard answer is.....

SMK

Roy, this is only a guess on my part but it appears they are doing their primetime lineup in HD now so I would say probably yes.

One interesting sidenote, I am receiving PBS-HD on 2-1 on my Hughes receiver and on 2-2 on my DTC-100.

Thanks for the heads up on Chronicle last night. I taped it and it was pretty interesting. Pictures were stunning.

[/B] One interesting sidenote, I am receiving PBS-HD on 2-1 on my Hughes receiver and on 2-2 on my DTC-100. [/B]

I am getting PBS-HD on 2-1 and WGBH-SD on 2-2 on my Panny receiver (with reversed PSIP information) and PBS-HD on 2-2 and WGBH-SD (with correct PSIP IDs) on 2-1 on my Sammy 150. Curiouser and curiouser.

On MyHD I get 19-1 as HD, 19-2 as SD (MyHD doesn't seem to provide PSIP mappings). On Toshiba DST-3000 I get 2-1 as HD and 2-2 as SD.

I should add that 2-1 maps to the Direct TV program guide for HD (where they show sign-off until prime-time). 2-2 doesn't have any entries in the program guide.

-Dave

I spoke to Direct TV customer support this morning about the lack of program guide information for the new DT stations. They didn't have a clue...

The woman (Jennifer) I spoke to indicated that they don't provide program information for stations that they don't receive a signal feed from. I then pointed out that I get program guide information for analog channel 50 and 2-1, that they don't provide signals for. Doh!

After getting nowhere fast to the point she was arguing with me, I asked to speak to her supervisor (Dennis). He couldn't explain / understand why I get program information for channel 50. I tried to point out that I entered my zip-code for local guide information, but he didn't seem to get the idea that they currently offer guide information for channels they don't broadcast on their satellites.

All I was after was for them to relay the fact that 50 now broadcasts a signal on 35-1, and 56 broadcasts a signal on 41-1 (which now also shows up as 56-1) to the department responsible for the guide information to make guide information available for the new signals.

The supervisor kept indicating that all he had to go on was the information available in his database. I asked him what they do when the information is wrong, at that point he didn't have an answer.

I bet at some point the information will magically appear, as 44-1 shows the correct information even though it is off-the-air (I guess I can't really say it is "correct").

They probably get the local guide information from a 3rd party, does anyone know which one? I would probably have more luck talking to them.

Frustrating to say the least...
-Dave

I do not get any guide info on my Samsung TS160 STB except for locals (7.1) that provide it in the PSIP info, no clue why I cannot get it.

The good news is that channel 56.1 (41) now is able to be scanned by my TS160 and my HiPix and almost shows up correctly as WLVI, so it looks like the PSIP info is almost 100% to me.

Jim

that is an annoying conversatoin with directv. Anyone know the turnaround time from on air date to guide info showing up??

-nate

One thing is for certain, the CSR's at DirecTV are CLUELESS!!! Some of them probably still don't know what HD or PSIP is. As best as I understand it, the program info in the Hughes-based Advance Program Guide comes from DirecTV. If you don't have a satellite hook-up you will only get "Regular Programming" in your guide. The PSIP guide info in the other receivers comes from the stations. If they don't send guide info, you get no guide info. Currently WHDH is the only station sending guide info.All the other stations send info that maps them to their analog channel#, gives their call letters and the time info. Calling DirecTV will get you no where, unless you connect right to the CEO-Roxanne-and she probably is somewhat clueless as well.

I know it's old stuff, but I'm really glad to see PBS stuff back in HD. I had company over today who hadn't seen it before, and it was the only HD I could pull, but they were impressed. I found myself watching stuff I'd seen before because it's so well done.

Yeah, but Skinwalkers is still only on the SD side of the signal! I was hoping that the primetime lineup would switch from the demo loop, but I guess not. Booo!

-Dave

Is CBS down???? I can't get CSI, but my other OTA stations are ok.

WBZ-DT is fine at this moment. CSI is being shown in HD.

-Dave

Very surprised to see Faith Hill in HD....however the lip sync problem is driving me crazy. Can anything be done about it.

Also a newbie question. Should I be getting guide data fro channels? I have a Sony hd 200.

Thanks

Mike5454...the only station sending program information is WHDH-DT 42. You should be receiving this.

Originally posted by HDorBust
Yeah, but Skinwalkers is still only on the SD side of the signal! I was hoping that the primetime lineup would switch from the demo loop, but I guess not. Booo!

-Dave

There are a couple of issues here...
Eventhough the PBS SD and HD feeds are often simulcast, the PBS-HD feed doesn't repeat "in-sync" with the PBS SD counterpart. (Often PBS-HD repeats are on weekends.)
WGBH often departs from the national PBS feed for SD programming while just passing through the PBS-HD feed. You can check the PBS-HD [non-demo-loops] feed schedule at:
http://www.pbs.org/digitaltv/dtvsched.htm

skinwalkers was in HD on 2.2 last night around 9/10pm . that doesn't seem to match a time of a PBS feed for skinwalkers.

Is NBC visible to anyone? I'm getting 100 on my Mits SR-HD5's signal meter but no picture or audio.

I'm not getting anything on NBC either. My signal strength is about 80%.

same here! 85% signal strenght and no picture!

7.1/42.1 was hosed last time i looked here too - at about 7pm. too bad - i like that law&order: spinoff intent, with the big semi-columbo-like guy. first thing i noticed was the PSIP-shuffle - when i tuned to 7.1 it told me "7.1 is available on 42.1" ...

7.1/42.1 was hosed last time i looked here too - at about 7pm. too bad - i like that law&order: spinoff intent, with the big semi-columbo-like guy. first thing i noticed was the PSIP-shuffle - when i tuned to 7.1 it told me "7.1 is available on 42.1" ...

No problem here, watched America Dreams and Law & Order, no problems.

Jim

I'm also getting the good signal strength and black screen business on my Zenith HDV420 for NBC. All other stations seem fine.

Same here. 7-1 and 7-2 are black, but I'm getting 93-100 signal str.

All other digital stations in boston are looking good from here...

-j

WHDH-DT is MIA on both my Hughes and DTC-100, with strong signal strengths.

Just sent an email to station engineer Jim Shultis informing him of the WHDH-DT situation. He probably is already aware but it doesn't hurt to let him know anyways. If anyone else is interested, his email addy is: jshultis@whdh.com .

vfrjim,

What are you using to receive the signal? It doesn't come through on my Mits TV or my Mits (Hughes) Sat/OTA box.

Thanks.

Can someone verify the approximate broadcast hours for the PBS-HD feed (including demo loops)?
I know it's on at night, but is it also on in the AM and afternoon?

Thanks,
Keith

I am using a Samsung SIR-TS160 and my HiPix DTV-200(pc card), both worked all last nite and this morning.

Jim

WHDH came back to life on both my devices.

OK, I'm giving in and ditching my RS Bowtie for a real outdoor antenna.

I've seen the links to Stark Electronic to purchase it, and done the research on 100000watts and antennaweb to know which one I need. (I think being ~15 miles from the Needham tower, a ChannelMaster Advantage 3016 is the one for me!)

But, I can't find the name of an installer in the Boston area mentioned anywhere. I could look in the phone book, but figured I'd ask here to stay loyal people who treated AVS Forum members well.

Thanks,
Jim

Originally posted by JStanton
But, I can't find the name of an installer in the Boston area mentioned anywhere. I could look in the phone book, but figured I'd ask here to stay loyal people who treated AVS Forum members well.

See my post at:

Pete Charbeau (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1548011#post1548011)

for someone I highly recommend.

Originally posted by JStanton
OK, I'm giving in and ditching my RS Bowtie for a real outdoor antenna.

I've seen the links to Stark Electronic to purchase it, and done the research on 100000watts and antennaweb to know which one I need. (I think being ~15 miles from the Needham tower, a ChannelMaster Advantage 3016 is the one for me!)

But, I can't find the name of an installer in the Boston area mentioned anywhere. I could look in the phone book, but figured I'd ask here to stay loyal people who treated AVS Forum members well.

Thanks,
Jim
Jim,

Unless you want analog VHF reception, I would consider a Channel Master 3021 for your location. This is a 4-Bay bowtie antenna, UHF-only, antenna. This is assuming line-of-site to the top of the Needham towers. Many viewers using this antenna or the 4228 in the Boston area. You should not need a preamp from your location.

Perhaps some of the other readers of this thread might want to comment on this.

Bob