I believe DT21 is Fox out of Fort Collins.

Don't sweat it if you can't receive it. KFCT DT-21 is just a translator of Denver's KDVR Fox. No HDTV.

Just got this from KRMA. HDTV coverage of 9/11 tomorrow?

On Wednesday, September 11, 2002, a special program will be fed in HD.
NHK and WETA "9/11" coverage will be fed in HD at 10:00am and again at 13:00 (MT).
The program is approximately 90-minutes and will be broadcast on KRMA DT-18.

The frequency will be RX-IF=1379.

-John

Do ya'll think this is 9/11 2001 coverage or 2002? I guess it must be 2002, right?

-John

EDIT: Well "NHK" is a Japanese HD network, I think... so maybe it is Hi-Def 9/11 2001 footage? WETA's digital site shows live coverage of a Presidential speech by G.W tomorrow at 9:30 Eastern. I wonder how the two are combined? And if not, I wonder if it really is 2001 coverage.

I would suspect 2002 coverage, but that's based on absolutely nothing.

For those of us who can't get KRMA-DT, HDNet will have special coverage of 9/11/02 all day.

I replied to the original email to try and get us some clarification. Will post when I hear back...

-John

ps. For those that do get HDNet; In another thread it says that they will be broadcasting the only known HDTV footage of 9/11 tomorrow night at mid-nite ET.

Here's the note I got back;

John,
I am forwarding you the latest information we have on tomorrow's HD program.
Best Regards,
Debbie

On Wednesday, September 11, 2002, in cooperation with NHK and WETA, Washington, D.C., PBS will feed in high definition, tape delayed coverage of the "9/11" commemorative events at the Pentagon.

At this point in time, we understand the event will include comments by President Bush, a moment of silence and the raising of the United States flag over the Pentagon. When we have a rundown of the day's events, we will make it available.

The entire event will be packaged with voiceover narration by WETA and is expected to run approximately 90-minutes. PBS plans to feed the coverage at 12:00 noon Eastern Time, and again at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. This feed will preempt previously scheduled material on DT2.

This feed is available only for high definition transmission.

Pardon my OT ... But HBO HD tonight has "Things to do in Denver when you're dead" tonight in "True HDTV"

Also, the reception maps are up Denver DTV Maps (http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm)

Ron, thanks for the maps.

My dot (Belleview and CC Drive) shows NO for KMGH and NO DATA for KBDI. Maybe you didn't use my data, but I do get all stations at my house.

That's not your dot. Yours ended up at the west end of Belleview. PM me a real address if you want it placed more accurately.

My dot was a bit off too (if it was mine :)

PM'd my real addy.

-John

Hey Ron

I sent you a PM with my reception status.

Thanks
Joe

For some time, I have been unable to get a sound sync on KRMA channel 18 on the national PBS feeds (the local programs and demo loop are fine). The sound just goes on and off about four times a second (is this called chopping?). I have a RCA F38310 with a DTC-100 in it.

Do any of you have a similar problem? Any help would be appreciated.

In my email with KRMA, I got the following from Carol Jacobs-Carre in their engineering dept. She gave me permission to post this. Of course, I have checked the software level and connections and all is OK. I have not tried unplugging the TV and will do so next time I can't get a sound sync. All other HD channels work fine.


After some discussion here, I thought I might pass on what I have been able to glean insofar as audio sync problems. This is pretty basic, and most of the forum members probably already know this. If you want, you can post this:

1. Some DTV receivers, especially the older ones, have a problem with drift between the lock on audio and video, so that after a period of time, they will no longer properly lock on the audio, but will still lock onto the video. These may need to be powered down and back up again to reacquire their signal lock.

2. The RCA DTC-100 boxes, if they do not have the current (A05.10) or immediately previous software revision (A04.70), have some serious audio bugs. There can be serious audio drift, or chopping, sometimes depending on the digital source (i.e. what sort of encoder the station uses to send out the signal). Sometimes these boxes spontaneously shut off when switching between antenna A and B, and sometimes they lose all their settings when this happens. You can check which revision you have by
pressing the MENU or OK button, select 7 (assistance) and 7 (updates) and 2 (previous updates) which should give you the current version of software. If you are subscribing to DirecTV you theoretically should have the most current version, since they poll the receivers every weekend. This info is thanks to James Snyder at the PBS DTV Strategic Services Group.

I have monitored programs here inhouse on a Harris receiver, and a Unity Motion receiver. There have been no audio problems. Of course, we are very close to our transmitter and haven't the issues created by distance, physical obstacles, etc.

The other suggestions are so basic that I only mention them in passing because I often forget them, so I sometimes need to remind myself of things such as: check the connectors on your receiver, check the condition of the cable and connection to the antenna, or check the antenna.

Best of luck,
Carol

Dennis,

I have had a DTC100 since November of 1999 and have never had a problem from the STB end of things. I have had a couple of audio sync isues from KMGH specifically at times, but they have been contacted and they repaired something on their end.

I get KRMA in the high 80's for signal strength, usually 88 or so, I doubt that matters for sync issues. Just my 2 cents.

Jeff

FWIW, here's the response received from my letter to them:

Thanks for contacting the FCC. I appreciate the opportunity to respond.

Since DTV is required by a 1996 federal law, any local law prohibiting the provision of DTV is void and cannot be enforced. Further, all broadcast TV stations must provide a DTV signal by 2006, but this deadline may be extended.

TV stations in your areas are in compliance with the FCC's DTV transition time table. If local zoning rules are hindering a station's DTV efforts, the station may seek assistance from the FCC.

I hope that this information is useful.

Originally posted by Mgibsoj
FWIW, here's the response received from my letter to them:

TV stations in your areas are in compliance with the FCC's DTV transition time table. If local zoning rules are hindering a station's DTV efforts, the station may seek assistance from the FCC.


I guess we all must have missed the sentence in the DTV mandate where it said all major networks in the top 30 markets should have been on the air two years ago "except the stations in Denver which do not have to be on the air till 2005".

The stations here are in compliance with the timetable????? KUSA????? Give me a break. Also, they say the stations "may seek assistance from the FCC", so how about it stations, why do you not seek assistance?? Or did they and has the FCC not 'assisted'?? That letter is a major pile of cr%p. It's no wonder we won't have OTA HD before 2005.

:mad:

Yep. In fact, I see only one reference to a date, and even that seems to be only a possible... Not trying to read too much into their statements, it really sounds that we are not in the same market that we thought we were. The information is only useful to me in that I will have to go grey market.

Mark - did you get that response paper or e-mail? Did you send a paper letter to the FCC (I never did get one in the mail :()?

It was email from mbinfo. I only sent to mbinfo@fcc.gov, and I did not send snail mail.

Well I dont reckon the Gubment is truly worried about whether anybody met a mandate of a few years ago. In large measure they're probably only worried about having most all of it done by 2006 so that they can begin reclaiming spectrum.

Especially if whats standing in the way in any particular market is an issue about health concerns (contrived or otherwise) as opposed to realizing theres not really any opposition to do what a station might want to do in an existing "tower area" and as such it would unquestionably be the station(s) themselves that would be dragging ass.

Yesterday and today, 9/14/02, tuning in Fox Ch 32 has caused my computer to lock up. (Using Windows XP and MyHD card)

Anybody else having this problem?

Yeah something is freaky with it. It was last night and still is now during the baseball game. The aspect ratio seems proper now.. 4x3 with black sidebars but theres like an extreme ghosting or "trailing" of the image during movement.

Apparently it's also being sent out as 480p again because some of the stretch/zoom functions on my 6000 are disabled on that channel now which used to be the case when they were sending out 480p in the past as well.

Just looking for a bit of advice. It seems like I'm about the farthest away on the maps (except maybe Mark in Ft.C) I've got a Radio Shak antenna (I think it was $40 - just for UHF) up in my attick, and I have a little 10dB amplifier just before it goes into my receiver. I get 32 (yawn) in the 50's, and nothing else registers at all. I don't want to put an antenna on my roof. Are there better antennas or amplifiers that anyone is using that might give me a chance to get any of the HD channels out of Denver? If you've found something that works I'd love to hear about it! Thanks.

Mike

Mike:

I use a CM 4248 large YAGI (actually a 3023 which is the same in two pieces, about $60) and NO amp. An amp made things worse for me, probably due to overload from stronger UHF analog signals. I had to put it on the roof to get 17, but the rest would have worked inside with a smaller antenna. I would bet you will need it on the roof. The amplifier should be on your mast near your antenna with the power supply inside. Lots of posts about this.

Good luck.

Originally posted by mknoebel
Just looking for a bit of advice. It seems like I'm about the farthest away on the maps (except maybe Mark in Ft.C)
...

Mike

Well, I'm not on the map since I don't have an OTA receiver. My only HDTV comes from a satellite over the equator at 91.5 degrees longitude...

I keep thinking that there will be a reason to get a OTA receiver/antenna sometime, but so far all I have is this:

KDVR-DT - essentially broken most of the time, and doesn't even pass through the widescreen Fox stuff.
KWGN-DT - gave me hope for awhile; now it looks like next spring sometime.
KBDI-DT - also gave me hope for awhile; now it sounds more like 2006 to get them up here.

I won't recap all the others!

So, there appears little reason for me to put much effort into anything right now. But since you do already have the receiver, it would certainly be interesting to find out if you can get anything else with a bigger antenna, mounted outdoors. We know one high-altitude Lovelander has had success.

Mark

Dan (DP-1) came over this afternoon and helped me get a solid lock on KMGH-DT 17 (55-60 on a Dish 6000). He spent a lot of time being a human antenna mast until he found the right spot for a lock. (5 ft to the east and up made a huge difference) Too bad Littleton is a fringe area :rolleyes:

I guess I am #15 :D

Knotting Hill tonight looks great !! :cool:

I am getting 17-01 fine but no sign of 17-02. Any ideas on how to get my 6000 to recognize it? I have tried to scan and add it manually with no luck.

Thanks again Dan !!

Congratulations, Phil. 17-2 should be there automatically if your 6000 locks onto 17. It was on mine earlier today.

If a couple more people post their stats to the Denver Data Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1350577#post1350577) Ron will probably make us up a new map. Most recent maps are at Denver DTV Website (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm) Ron, also it looks like you need a "home" page button on the "maps" page.

Thanks!

-John

What's up with channel 38, it's gone!

I want to get channel 17..sniff...sniff...

I think the 17 digital channels are 17.2 which is the 16:9 stretched and HD channel. 17-3 is a 4:3 normal channel with grey bars. At least that is what my DTC-100 says.

I was still only getting 17-1 this morning. I will try it again tonight.

Originally posted by mknoebel
I don't want to put an antenna on my roof

Mike

Mike,

Based on my experience, I think a roof mounted antenna may be your only chance during these low power years. My Denver DTV signal strength is very sensitive to the height of my antenna west of Loveland.

I think I might actually have line-of-sight to high-rise building roofs in downtown Denver; I'll have to bring the telescope up to the roof some clear day and take a look. I am actually surrounded by hills/mountains, except for a shot through a valley to the south. Heck, most days I can pick up watchable analog VHF from Colorado Springs.

Malcolm

KDVR got their encoder installed over the weekend, but they were still having a lot of problems with it. The signal was breaking up considerably starting at about 11:30 Sunday morning, and before that it looked like they were trying to put out a 4x3 480p signal, except there was about 2 inches of black bar on the left side of the picture and 1 inch of black bar on the right side of the picture inside the 4x3 area. Picture looked like the sides were squished together, producing a vertically elongated picture. I really wish they'd get their problems worked out...

Still only getting 17-1 on my 6000. Could it be an 8VSB module problem?

I have a Sony KP-61HS30 4x3 set so I would like to see what 17-2 looks like.

I have 17-2 listed on my 6000, but I can't get any signal at all from either 17-1 or 17-2 tonight, so I don't know if it's there or not.

Phil - you going to enter the Survivor contest? A 721 would look real nice next to your 6000! :D (Everyone else - PM me for details if you're curious.)

I still have 17-1 and 17-2 in the guide on the 6000 but I dont have the bigger antenna hooked up to it right now. 17-2 is working though cause I'm watching it on my Mitsu tuner.

Still not sure why it's not entering into your 6000 Phil unless it's something weird on the station end these days if a person didnt already have it mapped in from a prior moment in time.

During this morning's News4, they talked a little about the winner of that American Idol show.

The other anchor said something about never having seen even one episode.

And Ed Greene, perhaps speaking for all of us HDTV enthusiasts, says what we've all been saying for a while now:

"Well that's because is wasn't on TV, it was on Fox"

Beautiful. I wonder if he has a HDTV setup?

Originally posted by dr_mal
During this morning's News4, they talked a little about the winner of that American Idol show.

The other anchor said something about never having seen even one episode.

And Ed Greene, perhaps speaking for all of us HDTV enthusiasts, says what we've all been saying for a while now:

"Well that's because is wasn't on TV, it was on Fox"

Beautiful. I wonder if he has a HDTV setup?

hehe, that's funny :) Been a bunch of PAX channel 59 ads on the radio today... should they be our next target? <grin>

-John

Only if you want to see Buzz Lightyear and Tarzan cartoons from Disney. My kids' TIVO record that every day. Frankly, if it didn't automatically record them, I don't know if I would even have been aware they were broadcasting at all.

:)


Jeff

I tuned to KDVR on the fly last night to see how things are going with their repair job. For the first time in a long time my UM actually saw the widescreen picture in a normal and stable fashion, so it looks like one problem may be fixed. Three cheers, I can now watch the FAUX 'high resolution' shows.
:rolleyes:

Not that all was well though, I noticed the lip synch issue was a bit off. It was awful when I first turned it on, but I switched off the unit and turned it back on and it seemed to be much better. It still looked a bit off to me though. Anyone else?? Also, when they went to a 4:3 upconvert(?), it appears too narrow on the screen like the ratio is more like 3:3. It's not awful to look at, but it does not appear correct. The sidebars on the set are much too wide on both sides, which seems to confirm the visual. Are others seeing this problem or is this a functional problem of my UM box reading their signal?????

JM

I saw exactly the same thing. I never watch the programs, though, just surfing through the HD channels. I have a RCA F38310 with a DTC-100 in it.

The 3x3 picture is definitely on their end. I got this reply back from Mike Howey this morning when I emailed him about it on Sunday:

Thanks Mark.. Yes, we did get the encoder back but it still isnt' right.. We'll look into the aspect ratio today but there may be other problems still lingering.. Seems the manufacturers have problems repairing the DTV equipment because of their inexperience too..

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
JM

I saw exactly the same thing. I never watch the programs, though, just surfing through the HD channels. I have a RCA F38310 with a DTC-100 in it.

FWIW, I don't watch much FAUX either, but I had a few minutes to kill and wanted to see if their repair job worked. I don't even know the name of the program that was on, but it sure didn't keep me watching, even though it was telecast in FAUX's wonderful 'high resolution'. Dennis and Mark thanks for the feedback. I use mostly 'non-traditional' gear in my set up, so I have had times when the problems are at my end. Glad to know my gear is still OK.

While I am at it, is anyone getting any OTA HD signal from KUSA (Colorado's Leader) these days?** I still can't pick up a thing no matter whether my antenna is pointed toward downtown or Lookout.
:D

(**Yes, that is a rhetorical question meant to provide a little comic relief! I have to chuckle ever time I see their 50th anniversary adds which trumpet the early days and their early adaptation of 'color' technology. Should be fun to see the adds 50 years from now. Will they can advertise they were the last DTV channel on the air in the Denver market?)

You mean to say you think they'll be on the air live digitally 50 years from now? I suspect they'll still be waiting for the magic flange... :D

Originally posted by markdl
You mean to say you think they'll be on the air live digitally 50 years from now? I suspect they'll still be waiting for the magic flange... :D

Hey, that's just my nature, 'always the optimist'! (As you all already know).
:D

Well it'll prolly be a deal like it was with KCNC. Remember how Ernie guessed that it would magically happen right at the end of the year for tax purposes.. and low and behold he was right. Coincidentally or otherwise. So we shall see.

Oh and mark.. "What could be better" than a New Survivor and a New 721? How about.. A New Survivor.. in HD, and a New *9*21. ;)

My own guess is that the pressure on "Colorado's Leader" is more out of fear of an FCC fine for non-compliance than any concern for a tax savings. One thing is for sure, they are not doing this just for the 30 of us with OTA tuners.

We're up to 30 now?? What, did a couple newbies buy tuners and forget to post about it? ;)

Originally posted by DP1
We're up to 30 now?? What, did a couple newbies buy tuners and forget to post about it? ;)


Heck, I'll go out on a limb and predict as many as 35 by the end of the year.


Originally posted by JMartinko


Hey, that's just my nature, 'always the optimist'!
:D

Well it looks like 32 is dialed in again, at least for the moment. They had the 4:3 right for Seinfeld and I notice they just switched over to the "true widescreen" from the Network for airing of the Rats movie.

Dan,

Thanks for the update. With playing with the 169time AVX trying to get HBO dialed in correctly, I haven't had much time to check on our FOX jokescreen, I mean widescreen.

Jeff

I received a written letter from KWGN (Derek Dalton, VP and General Manager) in response to my FCC letter (which I copied to the stations and which was posted here previously. It is longer than I think appropriate to post here, but it has some interesting points.

They claim they have been working diligently and actively for years to put up their own "full-power" DTV transmission facilities, which they believe they have every legal right to do.
They obtained local zoning approval to build a 450kW DTV facility on lookout, though they have been opposed by CARE like their "Lake Cedar Group Bretheren"
They placed the order for the DTV transmitter in July 2001.
The antenna and transmission line are on order, and should begin construction in a couple of weeks.
There is a pending CP application for the modification of the auxilliary antenna to be modified to make room for the Channel 34 antenna.
They are still waiting on the STA to allow to broadcast at 450kW.
The letter was copied to Michael K. Powell, David Fiske (whom I sent the letter to) and also Rick Chessen, Senior Legal Advisor, FCC.

I don't think there is a lot here that has not been posted previously, including the posts from KWGN Don, but I thought that they went to the trouble of writing

Originally posted by DP1
Oh and mark.. "What could be better" than a New Survivor and a New 721? How about.. A New Survivor.. in HD, and a New *9*21. ;)

Well, yeah...obviously...if either one of those existed in the "real world"... :D A 721's a pretty decent prize, though, in my opinion.

What is 721?

Yes it is, Mark.. very much so. Any prize worth 550.00..or whatever street is on that thing these days.. I think it's in that neighborhood, is a fine prize.

It's a dual tuner SD PVR from Dish Network, Dennis. The 921 is the HD version ..if it ever gets to market.

After hearing that Fox got its equipment fixed, I attempted to watch Firefly tonight. All I got was a series of badly pixelated frozen images. Since I usually get Fox (as well as CBS, KRMA, KDBI) very well I thought maybe it was an incompatibilty with my Panasonic TU-DST51 receiver and their new equipment.

Did anyone else watch Firefly? What tuner do you have?

Thanks,

Michael

I watched a little bit of Firefly, and then most all of John Doe. Everything seemed to be ok on both my Mitsu SR-HD5 and my Dish 6000. Both shows were in the widescreen format.

Okay guys,

Forgive my ignorance. I noticed at the Denver DTV Info Site that some of you in my area (Boulder County - I'm in Louisville) are getting KCNC in. I already have DirecTV which I love, and I have a Sony HD100. I'd like to try to get the OTA stuff. I currently have a regular antenna in the attic that is branched out to about 8 different outlets. Obviously, this much splitting isn't acceptable. But before I get up in the attic to fix this, do I need a special antenna for the DTV broadcasts? I think it's a regular UHF/VHF antenna but I haven't looked. I know it was put in 5 years ago long before thinking about DTV compatibility. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

Brian Nichols
Louisville, CO
Sony HD100
Mits WS55809

No, nothing special..just a good UHF antenna thats precisely aimed. It may need to be outdoors though. Of course even then theres no guarantees when it comes to the low power stuff. And especially on the north end where it seems to be even trickier.

What are you getting for readings on your Sony on any or all of the OTA digital signals as it stands.. 18, 32, 35 etc?

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing it's a compatibility problem between my hardware and theirs. Any idea who I can call at Fox to discuss it?

Michael

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I don't get anything currently (and there's no meter on the sony) I think because the antenna is currently split 8 ways. I'm going to get in the attic and rectify that problem and see how I do. I'll let you know.

Thanks,
Brian

And now I'm having problems with KCNC-DT (35). Luckily (?), it's different from the one I'm having with KDVR.

I have a great picture of the "The Agency" but no sound. My receiver is not registering anything on the optical interface. If I switch to KRMA, HBO, Showtime, or CBS East (from DISH) everything is fine (obviously, KDVR still isn't working). I switched the power on and off a couple of dozen times and I managed to get the sound back. But after switching channels, no more sound on KCNC. I also lost the picture during the last couple of minutes of the show. The picture returned when they switched to the local feed (promo for the 10 o'clock news).

This is more than a little frustating. Is the DTV standard so complicated that it's not possible to transmit a signal all STBs can receive? Is my STB defective (while still receiving most channels fine)?

Anyone else using a Panasonic TU-DST51 in Denver?

Michael

Originally posted by mknoebel
Just looking for a bit of advice. It seems like I'm about the farthest away on the maps (except maybe Mark in Ft.C) I've got a Radio Shak antenna (I think it was $40 - just for UHF) up in my attick, and I have a little 10dB amplifier just before it goes into my receiver. I get 32 (yawn) in the 50's, and nothing else registers at all. I don't want to put an antenna on my roof. Are there better antennas or amplifiers that anyone is using that might give me a chance to get any of the HD channels out of Denver? If you've found something that works I'd love to hear about it! Thanks.

Mike

Well, Mike, I have spent the last two weekends trying for something in Longmont, but with no luck (other than 32, which I already receive from an amplified omni mounted low enough to use the house as a shield against KDEN). I mounted the CM4248 (UHF-only) yagi on the roof, but my next chore is to take it down. Thought I'd pass along some info for you and anyone else in this northern neck of the woods that would also like to get some of the Republic Plaza sigs...

As you know, we have some ridges to our south that prevents line of sight from the lower elevation transmissions and the problem is further complicated by them being low power, and a complete dependency on atmospheric scatter/bending. An above roof-height yagi at my location did not help as much as hoped. In fact, the unamplified yagi (with limited location possibilities on the roof) was only marginally better than an amplified omni directiional antenna optimally placed at lower height (both get 32 in the low 60's). My guess is that for your location, an above roof mount will not improve your reception for the non-Lookout stations anyway.

Last winter I was able to watch KRMA sometimes with an outdoor omni-directional antenna optimally placed. For the omni at my location, greater height worked against me in that it brought in more interference on some lower analog channels (there's some kind of public service tower a couple of blocks away that I believe is the source), but did not help signal strength on the digital channels. The placement of the antenna on the west side of the house away from the easterly KDEN (25) tower gave adequate shielding from its interference. Moving the antenna around made drastic changes showing the 'light behind a picket fence' effect, with only a few locations giving a reading on 18. I had been getting 18 in the upper 30's last winter, from a location that appeared to be using the house as a corner reflector, but now is in the mid teens (unusable). Now with the yagi, 18 only improved to the 24-30 range at best. 35 also marginally improved from 0-6 range to low 20s. Any use of an antenna-mounted preamp will not work due to the overloading problems caused by KDEN which is in Frederick (which is in the same general direction as Denver but alot closer) and transmits 5000 kW of home shopping (does anyone really watch that?).

To summarize: complete dependence on alot of atmospheric bending doesn't work well, or at all. A lot of location trial-and-error will only give temporary, intermittent results in Longmont, and probably worse further from Denver at this elevation. Unless fortunate enough to live at a high enough elevation to get line of sight to Republic Plaza (near the foothills), there's no hope other than what comes from Lookout. I am quite bummed about this, but that is what I have learned. But hey, we not only get 32, but we also get alot to look forward to when the other stations catch up to KDVR!

Brian,

Louisville might be a tough one as you are behind the ridge south of the turnpike, so have no line of sight at all to Denver. Definitely get the antenna as high as you can without the 8 connections :). One person that I know that lives up by the lake north of Via Appia does get 35 and 18, but not 17, but they are very high up and have their antenna basically three stories up!

Good luck,

Jeff

Originally posted by zanaberry
Dan,

Thanks for the reply. I'm guessing it's a compatibility problem between my hardware and theirs. Any idea who I can call at Fox to discuss it?

Michael

Michael -

I've been talking to Mike Howey at KDVR - mhowe426@fox.com
He's been really good about replying to messages - usually within a couple of hours.

I received a response over the weekend from KMGH to the message that I sent to the GM a couple of weeks ago. The original message was about being one of the lucky "14" that can receive the KMGH-DT signal, when were they going to move to Republic Plaza, and when would DD 5.1 sound start being passed. The response was from Rick Craddock, the director of engineering.

He said basically the same thing regarding moving their transmitter to Republic - they're waiting on until early next year for some indication as to the "viablility" of LCG2, and then will make a decision. As for the DD 5.1 sound, "if all goes well" KMGH should be passing the 5.1 sound by the end of next month.

Originally posted by benichols
Okay guys,

Forgive my ignorance. I noticed at the Denver DTV Info Site that some of you in my area (Boulder County - I'm in Louisville) are getting KCNC in. I already have DirecTV which I love, and I have a Sony HD100. I'd like to try to get the OTA stuff. I currently have a regular antenna in the attic that is branched out to about 8 different outlets. Obviously, this much splitting isn't acceptable. But before I get up in the attic to fix this, do I need a special antenna for the DTV broadcasts? I think it's a regular UHF/VHF antenna but I haven't looked. I know it was put in 5 years ago long before thinking about DTV compatibility. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

Brian, I get a signal from KCNC using a 4-bay bowtie channel master UHF-only antenna that is not adequately mounted as my living situation is(longer than I had hoped) temporary. As it is unmounted, it is easy to aim. I am in Northwest Boulder just east of 28th on Kalmia. I get occasional dropouts making it unwatchable at times, but I can usually tweak the aiming and get it back. As was pointed out by Jeffden, you eventual success may be your specific location relative to terrain obstacles. Good Luck!

Brian
I am also located beyond you in Boulder on the south facing hill side just off of 75'th and Lookout Rd. I get a strong KCNC and pretty good reception of KRMA if the trees and the antenna are just about perfect. I do not have line of sight to downtown, but am fairly high up on the hill. My antenna is the large UHF only array from Radio Shack with a low loss cable going directly (no splitters) to my DTV receiver. I have tried splitters to run the signal to another receiver as well, but it does not work, so the signal if obviously marginal at best. I also get KDVR from the same antenna although it is not pointed a Lookout. I have never even seen a blip from KMGH on the receivers. I think from our end it is real hit and miss depending upon how far below the hills you are between you and downtown. Good luck.

I live East of Longmont near I-25 and CO 119 and get Ch. 32(KDVR), 35(KCNC), and KRMA (CH 18) on a RS double bowtie UHV ant. Sometimes, especially during the day, I have trouble picking up KCNC and KRMA. Does anybody think going to a quad bowtie would help out much? I don't have the luxury of a signal meter but am curious about the possible increased signal strength going to a quad.

Wahlin, it sounds like you make it over the threshold just a few miles SE of my location in north Longmont - I'm just a bit over the line here (being behind a small hill with a water tank and highschool bldg doesn't help matters, either). In my previous house, I had terrific success getting analog UHF stations using a quad bow-tie and wish that I had tried that here instead of the yagi. If you just need a few more dBm, my guess is that it would help get you there. Good luck!

Originally posted by markdl
I received a response over the weekend from KMGH to the message that I sent to the GM a couple of weeks ago. The response was from Rick Craddock, the director of engineering.

He said basically the same thing regarding moving their transmitter to Republic - they're waiting on until early next year for some indication as to the "viablility" of LCG2, and then will make a decision.

That sounds as bad as KUSA. What are these guys waiting for. We already KNOW there won't even be a hearing with the Jeffco commissioners by then, and they have already told us that it will take at least a year from the time approval is granted to get the station going from Lookout, and in addition, we all know there will likely be a suit against any new tower by the folks at (S)CARE. What exactly does KMGH need to realize they will not be on the air from Lookout within 2 years. That answer is a pile of c#$p. Basically, KMGH has captured the ability to advertise for the next 50 years they were the first DTV station on the air in Denver, even though only a couple of houses can pick it up. Apparently that is all they care about. Obviously the fact that 2 years later only 14 people can get the signal means nothing to them. We all know exactly what the situation will be 'early next year'. It is obvious that KMGH went 'on the air' from their studio only to get the PR value of the 'first on the air' add, and could care less about the viewing public. It sounds like KUSA and KMGH have spent waaay too much time talking to each other. "Colorado's Leaders"? Seems like its KRMA and KCNC to me, at least they are trying to provide a service rather than just gain the PR value.

Update: I am still unable to get the sub channel 17-2 on my Dish 6000.

My normal signal on 17-1 is about 53-55. Rain and wind knocks out the signal, but some nights I get 60-61.

17-1 looks great on ABC HD programming but bad on local & non HD stuff. (I have a 4x3 HDTV ) I understand 17-2 is better for 4x3.

Any ideas why I can't get it? KMGH problem?

Phil - how did you add channel 17 to your digital channels? Did you let the 6000 scan for all of the channels, or did you add it manually? Whichever way you did it, try deleting the channel and then adding it back again. If that doesn't work, I'd say you have a problem with your 8VSB module.

Of course, I really wish they'd just get rid of 17-2 altogether and broadcast a non-stretched, non-cropped 4x3 upconverted signal on 17-1 for the SD material rather than multicasting that stretched crap that they currently have on 17-1. Just my opinion, though.

Mark,

I have deleted all channels and scanned them back in and also deleted and added them manually, with no luck on 17-2.

I even did a reset to factory defaults and started over with no luck.

I called Dish tonight and asked about a bad 8VSB. They said if the module was bad you would not get anything.

Has anyone removed 17 from a 6000 and added it back in lately?

I keep wondering if KMGH is not transmitting the mapping info any longer.

Phil,

Try contacting Rick Craddock at Thomas_Craddock@kmgh.com - he'll at least be able to tell you if anything has changed with their mapping.

I couldn't get KMGH with my double bow tie anymore, so I broke down last night and put my RS UHF yagi back up on the roof. I now can pull it in more reliably with a SS on my 6000 or about 65% and on my Hipix of about 55. I know antenna location is extremely important when trying to get a signal this weak, but I was still amazed at how critical it is...rotating the yagi 1 or 2 degrees would cause the signal to drop 10 points or 15 points depending on which direction. At first I had the antenna installed at the top of the pole (about 7' above the roof, about 25 feet above the ground), and wasn't getting anything on 17...then I lowered the antenna 3 feet and boom - there was the signal. You'd think that "the higher the better", but not in my case. So I have the antenna installed now about 4' above the roof surface. Looks kind of funny, but it works!

Phil,

It looks like I am right in or near the same neighborhood as you (and Dan!). I was tweaking my antenna placement this weekend and let my receiver auto program each time that I changed the placement, and every time that it programmed in 17 it got both 17-1 and 17-2, so I have to believe that KMGH is sending the mapping info.

I don't have a 6000, but am using the built-in tuner in my Mitsubishi WS-73909.

Brian

BTW - Although I can get four channels without ever seeing dropouts (17, 32, 35, 80), it is EXTREMELY difficult to optimize my antenna height and direction without the use of a signal strength readout. I guess that is one of the down-sides of using a built-in tuner. What work arounds are available for determining signal strength by channel?

Brian - you have no signal strength meter at all? I thought even the integrated tuners in sets had some kind of signal readout.

Originally posted by markdl
.....you have no signal strength meter at all? I thought even the integrated tuners in sets had some kind of signal readout.

The Unity Motion OTA receiver also does not have a signal strength indicator, that seems to be a feature not a standard function in OTA tuners. Certainly there is no such feature in most NTSC sets today (although it doesn't make as much sense, since you can easily view a change in signal strength in the picture). The irony in the UM is that is does have a great signal strenght and lock meter in the satellite receiver side.


BTW, for those of you who may have missed this in the programming threads

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173979

BREAKING NEWS: Big ABC HD Sports Announcement!

From HDTV Magazine:

"ABC Television Network president Alex Wallau announced today that the most-watched and highest-profile sporting events of the year, including the Super Bowl, games of the National Basketball Association finals and the Stanley Cup, will be broadcast in HDTV on ABC this season. In addition ABC announced that it will broadcast the 2003-2004 season of "Monday Night Football" in HDTV"

Of course we all know well that KMGH is visible only to the lucky 14 or so and KMGH has said they don't see any reason to try to get a stronger low power signal on the air in town. Well, there certainly will not be any pressure on KMGH to get a signal over more than 14 blocks next spring when the AVS are in the Stanley Cup Finals. Hey kids, the SUPER BOWL WILL be in HD too, just not in Denver outside a two block area. Way to go KMGH, hanging right in there with KUSA as "Colorado's Leaders" in the area of procrastination. I'll bet the two stations would be on the air but they are having trouble finding those da*n antenna flanges you need for the roof of the Republic Building. Oh, and while I am ranting a great big thanks to (S)CARE for also screwing the metro Denver public on this one.

Hooray for ABC. Boo-hiss KMGH....The fact is that we all know they could do something to improve their audience but evidently they don't feel like they have to. I'm with jm - what the hell does waiting until Jan '03 buy them? At best high power is still 2 years away and nothing is going to happen early next year that significantly brings that date in. The bottom line is we are being fed a line. Kinda easy to say it will be re-evaluated early next year and then hope everyone drops the issue (go away kid you bother me). Unlike others on this forum I believe your voices must be heard and will be heard if enough speak. Write KMGH and the FCC to let them know how you feel. Otherwise we may all be waiting 2 years.

That said even if they do move it doesn't help our Loveland/Greeley/Ft Collins members so if you write please urge them to pursue a interim solution on Lookout/Morrison or Eldorado, not just downtown.

Stanely Cup in HD? I'm moving closer and closer to a BEV HDTV receiver.

Yeah, it's something you'll definitely want to keep an eye on even if you're not ready to pull the trigger quite yet. Heres the latest on some of Bev's plans in the realtively near future:

------------------------------
ExpressVu has deployed just under 7,000 HD set-top boxes (as of the beginning of summer), said Terry Snazel, vice president of technology. Those subscribers, for the time being, watch the two checkerboard HD channels available from ExpressVu.

'We're marking time until Nimiq 2, at which point we'll have a lot more capacity to allocate to HD and to other things,' said Snazel. 'Nimiq 2 launches (approximately) Dec. 20 this year, and will be in service (approximately) Q1 of next year. That's going to be a very serious high definition satellite, somewhere between 10 and 16 HD channels plus whatever standard def we want. Our strategy or our focus is that premium subscribers are prepared to put out money for a high def or big home theatre television set, they're very important to us.'
----------------------------------

Some of those channels are rumored to be 5 fulltime H/DTV channels, 1 from each of the major affiliates in Boston (as opposed to juggling them all on just one channel now) a couple of the new HDNet channels, Discovery HD, and a few movie channels, PPV (no use down here) or otherwise and one or two "homegrown" Canadian HD channels.

I'm all over that!

Since some of us aren't going to receive ABC/NBC for the next 3-4 freakin' years!

Mount Morrison decision delayed by the JeffCo Planning commission delyaed for two weeks. October 9th date given.

Originally posted by pookers
Mount Morrison decision delayed by the JeffCo Planning commission delyaed for two weeks. October 9th date given. Thanks for the update. In all this ABC hoopla most have forgotten about the KRMA decision. I hadn't thought about it until this morning so your post was quit timely.

Any reasons given for the delay? Are there some back-room discussions going on???

Morrison should be an absolute no-brainer. The KRMA app is sound, meets requirements, and will improve the situation for everyone. And there is absolutely no chance in hell of any RF heath concerns for Scaredy cats on Lookout (although they are probably worried about Cheyene and Co. Springs towers). Nonetheless, given the fact that this is so obviously and overwhelming the right thing to do I suspect KRMA is facing an uphill struggle....

Interesting article in today's Westword about Lookout Mountain.

http://westword.com/issues/2002-09-26/message.html/1/index.html

John in Jeffco

According to Jefferson County planner Steve Brown, the planning commission had penciled in Lake Cedar for sessions on November 13 and December 4, but a request for additional technical data has resulted in an indefinite delay.


Hey KMGH -- now that you know what the situation will be next year, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO PROVIDE (H)DTV TO DENVER THIS YEAR? (sorry for shouting; this is getting tiring :()

Hi Guys,

I'm kinda new to all of this so cut me a slack...
...so it means that we, here in Denver metro area, are not going to get ABC HD sport events in Hi-Def from Dish?
If so are there any other means out there?
We can get CBS from NY or LA - right?

Thanks,

Jacek

John in Jeffco
Thanks for the link. I found this particular item to be interesting, especially in light of KMGH 'waiting until next year to decide if a low power temporary site is reasonable'.

"According to Jefferson County planner Steve Brown, the planning commission had penciled in Lake Cedar for sessions on November 13 and December 4, but a request for additional technical data has resulted in an indefinite delay."

Indefinite delay??? So what exactly were KMGH (and for that matter KUSA) waiting for???? Must be those da*n antenna flanges again.

Nice of Pete to keep us informed on the indefinite delay.......proof once again that communications is a one way street.

The article has at least one inaccuracy:"Finally, the Lake Cedar Group, which includes Channel 2, is again asking permission to build a digital-TV tower on Lookout Mountain -- but its pitch probably won't be heard until next year." CH 2 is NOT part of the LCG.

Looks like 2 years is really optimistic.....folks we need to bitch, loudly, to get KMGH off their dead asses to move their setup. There is NO EXCUSE for remaining status quo. It won't cost them near as much as say, KUSA will spend...so what's the rub? Laziness? Indifference? Go away kid you bother me attitude?

In the "this is really lame dept":"Picture a family having a picnic with one child closest to the tower," she says. "There's no person measuring the RF to block the radiation from the tower to that child, so the child is getting the full dose of what's there. But the FCC would come out and measure and say, 'There's no problem here.' Which shows you where their priorities are." So, this picnic is going to last how long? And that child will sit quietly for how long? And when that child becomes a teen he/she will talk on a wireless/cordless phone for how long??? Why do people buy this crap?

Of notable interest:"Instead, the rub was a Jeffco regulation stating that an antenna can't be replaced on towers over 200 feet tall unless it provides the same service as the one for which it's being swapped -- and given that the tower hadn't supported a digital-TV antenna in the past, the service was plainly different. Channel 2 appealed this decision through Jeffco's board of adjustment. When it lost in that venue, the station took the county to district court; the case is still pending. "If this is true it's the first we've heard that this is being litigated. It had to be - and it's a must win for the reasons I outlined many many pages ago.....

Hope that KWGN brings the FCC to court with them. The letter from the FCC stated that they would assist if the station asked them to and, most importantly, any local law that would hinder the deployment of DTV is unenforceable.
The way I see it, there's three strikes against Jeffco in that regard:
1. Their zoning ordinance was 'on the books' prior to the 1996 FCC ruling that supersedes the Jeffco law
2. They declared the towers as 'legal', and
3. The Jeffco law specifically states DTV as being forbidden - in their definition of what isn't allowed (same service).

Any attempt to reduce the coverage (via low power, smaller radiating elements, and lower height) of KWGN would certainly be a 'hindrance' to the transition to DTV.

Seems to me to be a clear cut case also - but they should take the FCC up on their offer as a sledgehammer to bring a piece of reality into the picture.

(Edited for spelling)

Jacek,

At the present time, Dish Network only offers CBS to the Denver market. I don't think they will ever offer ABC to anybody (After the Disney channel sqabble). NBC who knows?
The only reason we get CBS is becasue our local affiliate KCNC is network owned. Most other markets are not allowed to receive the Dish CBS feed.

The only way (the majority of us) are going to get ABC for a long while is to subscribe to ExpressVu. If you read the DP1 post above, they are going to be carrying all the networks in HD very soon. We may see a low-power NBC someday if they get off their butts and buy the equipment like they say they will - i'm not holding my breath!

I know some of you don't like to mention the Canadian alternative, but it's not fair to all those who can't receive the LP signals around here to be disenfranchised (sp).

Thanks Ernie,
Well...the standard, highly compressed, Dish signal is almost useless for watching Bronco's games. Could I use OTA signal (analog?) and then run it through QuadScan Pro or Elite and get much better picture? I have Hitachi 5500 and Dish 6000.

Thanks,

Jacek

Well if you've got a Dish 6000 Jacek, if it's equipped with the optional OTA 8VSB module (and UHF antenna) you'd be able (presumably) to get channel 4's digital channel (35) for the Bronco games. And that picture would be quite good. Not to mention you'd get their HD programming at night.

You'd also be able (presumably) to get KRMA's digital channel which is 18 which has some great PBS HD stuff on it from time to time.

Originally posted by Jacek Karpala
Thanks Ernie,
Well...the standard, highly compressed, Dish signal is almost useless for watching Bronco's games. Could I use OTA signal (analog?) and then run it through QuadScan Pro or Elite and get much better picture? I have Hitachi 5500 and Dish 6000.

Thanks,

Jacek
Jacek,
Given you have the Dish 6000, your best bet may be to get the 8VSB module for it, connect an OTA antenna to it, and watch the DTV channels. Depending where you are in Denver you might be able to get most of them. Out here in Boulder my luck isn't so good. Good luck to you.

Jacek,

I agree with the others, get the 8VSB module for the 6000 with an antenna and at least start enjoying some other HD material. (Hopefully you can become the 15th person in Denver to be able to receive KMGH)

I messed with a DVDO iScan2 doubler for the Sat signals. It made a little difference, but not a huge one.

And still the FCC does nothing...

Dan

I sent another email to KMGH. What the heck - nothing ventured nothing gained.....I am writing again to ask you to consider moving your DTV antenna setup to the Republic Plaza. The current location and very low ERP makes reception nearly impossible for many people. I understand that the Republic building is not ideal either but you will be able to reach a much larger audience with such a move. Given that ABC has announced vastly increased HDTV sports coverage, this season and next, and the sad reality that you will not be broadcasting from Lookout before 2005 (if then given the current climate), a move to the Republic building would demonstrate your commitment to reach as large an audience as possible. I understand your current setup helps to keep the FCC "off your backs" but I hope you take the next step and try to serve as many viewers as possible while the Lookout solution is being worked. I would also like to suggest that you and your LCG brethren vigorously pursue all possibilities with regards to establishing some sort of interim (low power) solution that would reach an even larger audience than can be reached from the Republic Plaza.

Thank youMaybe we need to keep hounding them....

WooHoo!!! I guess I WILL be throwing a Super-Bowl party this year. I narrowly escaped major embarrasement last year with that piece of crap FOX broadcast of the S-Bowl. Didn't have time to get everything hooked up for the game (I had just moved in). I now live about 1/2 mile from the Ch 17 building, and have line-of-site to it from my rooftop antenna. I better start chillin' the beer! (not to jinx them, but the Bronc's ARE 3-0, most likely 4-0 after Monday night)!

Originally posted by Jetlag
WooHoo!!! I guess I WILL be throwing a Super-Bowl party this year. I narrowly escaped major embarrasement last year with that piece of crap FOX broadcast of the S-Bowl.......(not to jinx them, but the Bronc's ARE 3-0, most likely 4-0 after Monday night)!

I agree, I was too embarassed to invite people to watch FAUXvision this year too. I had a party last year with the CBS show (thanks to KRMA who brought us that feed), and the group had already seen REAL HD, and I would not show them FAUX. Got the beer chillin already for the next one too!

BTW, for those of us Bronco fans with season tickets :cool: (i.e. we take this stuff seriously), don't EVER count a game in the win column until its over. Heck, now that you said that, if you jinxed them, the Quarterback will probably trip over his dog and sprain his ankle. If that happens we all will know it was YOUR fault.
:D

It appears our starting QB can trip over just about anything but I shouldn't be dogging him.....

I am thinking someone (I don't want to mention "JetLag" by name) may have jinxed him, but I could be barking up the wrong tree. Since we are playing Baltimore (who used to be the Cleveland Browns) maybe it was someone from the 'dog pound' who attacked him.
:D

I can always tell when it's late January by the smell of teargas in the air!

Baltimore? Please! Done deal, over and out! Just wish we could get Madden to shut up. Oh, and how 'bout Melissa in a thin tube top instead of the usual sweater? I got $50 on Denver, will collect Tuesday Morning. Bring back Dennis!

FWIW ... I live in the foothills about 8 miles northwest of Longmont, latitude about the same as mile post 250 on I-25, just south of Carter Lake. I'm slightly higher than Longmont, but not a lot, and I'm surrounded by hills except I have a clear shot to the southeast, toward Longmont (DIA is on the far horizon).

I have a Radio Shack deep fringe UHF/VHF/FM yagi on the roof. It's the biggest antennae they offer with a claimed VHF range of 210 miles. It's pointed toward Lookout (south), and that direction is blocked about 4 miles away by Rabbit Mountain.

There's a transformer on the antennae that converts the 300 ohm flat lead to 75 ohm coax, which then runs about 50 feet and comes in to a Radio Shack amplified distribution box. One of the distribution boxes 4 outlets goes directly to a MyHD tuner card in my HTPC.

Anyway, I get 18, 32, and 35, no drop-outs at all. Not a trace of 17, 21, or 38 though.

ZFMax,

You should post this also on the Denver Map thread so they can plot your location as beign able to receive by Carter Lake. Congratulations!

Jeff

Dan,
Where did you get all the info on EVu? I didn't find it on their website. Do you have a secret link to this upcoming HD Nirvana? ;)

Originally posted by zfmax
FWIW ...
Anyway, I get 18, 32, and 35, no drop-outs at all. Not a trace of 17, 21, or 38 though. 38 has been off the air for a week or more now. I'll try and post when I notice they're up again.

At the hearing on the 25th, the county's RF consultant said that Squaw Mountain had been using ch38 to test the DTV signal from their location. Since it is now off the air, I assume they are done with the test.

-Wabisab

Hi Guys,
Need some help...
Got my 8VSB in my car and a stick of 1"EMT conduit. On the way home I would like to pick the antenna up. What should I get and where to point it at? I suspect that every channel will have different location? Do I need to adjust the antenna's position every time I change the station? It can't be!
Hope to be able to watch Broncos with this setup on Monday.

Thanks,

Jacek

Originally posted by Jacek Karpala
Hi Guys,
Need some help...
Got my 8VSB in my car and a stick of 1"EMT conduit. On the way home I would like to pick the antenna up. What should I get and where to point it at? I suspect that every channel will have different location? Do I need to adjust the antenna's position every time I change the station? It can't be!
Hope to be able to watch Broncos with this setup on Monday.

Thanks,

Jacek

All of this really depends on where you live. KCNC (CBS) and KRMA (PBS) broadcast (low power) from atop the Republic Plaza building in downtown Denver. KMGH (ABC) broadcasts (extremely low power) from atop their low-rise studio near downtown Denver. KDVR (FOX) broadcasts (not full much much higher than the others) from Lookout Moutain in Golden. KUSA (NBC) hasn't bothered to broadcast anything (but are rumored to be considering a Republic Plaza solution for later this year). If you live reasonably close to downtown you might get by with an indoor UHF antenna such as the Radio Shack Double Bow-Tie antenna (though their getting harder to find). An outdoor UHF only antenna (I have a Channel Master 3021 I think) that I bought in California that worked OK there but doesn't do much for me in Boulder, but its not mounted high on a mast. Some members here have UHF-only Yagi antennas that may be better. Some people have to aim their antennas for different stations while others get them easily with little fiddling. It is (unfortunately) a trial-and-error situation with these. Good luck to you, and I'd be curious to know what you end up with and how you make out with it all.

Jacek - where in Denver are you located? You'll need anything from a little uhf bowtie antenna to a monstor behemoth on your roof depending on your location. KMGH (17) broadcasts from the top of their 7 story building at 6th & Speer. KCNC (35) and KRMA (18 & 80) transmit from the top of Republic Plaza which is about a mile north of KMGH at 17th & California (?), and KDVR (32) broadcasts from their antenna on Lookout. Bottom line on antenna pointing, if you can get 17, then almost certainly you'll get 18 and 35 from that postition as well. 32 is a little more iffy with your antenna pointed downtown if you are on the west side of town and don't put a big antenna on your roof.

What sort of realistic time frame could those of us in the Upper Arkansas Valley (Salida/Buena Vista) expect to receive any HDTV signals? 2010-2015 maybe? Currently we get the Denver OTA stations fed in through translator towers that must relay the signals from various points to get the signals all the way up here into the mountains. Reception is usually pretty good. I assume that all points at which the signals are passed through will have to be upgraded or replaced? No one that I have asked in our area knows anything.

I'm holding off on buying an HDTV until I have some idea when we might get HD reception. It would be a waste for just DVD and 2 or 3 channels on DirecTV.

If anyone out there knows anything or who/where I might get some information, I would appreciate it greatly.

Bob

Bob,
Don't wait, trust me, i've had my RPTV for a couple of years and even through there's not that much OTA yet. HBO-HD, SHO-HD, PPV-HD and a good Progessive-scan DVD player will thrill you long into the winter!

Thanks HDJello and Mark,

I new I'm missing something... I live in Arvada - 60th Ave and Eldrige.
Would it be correct if I say that there are two issues involved with hunt for the OTA channels - one is to get HD ones and second is to find "normal" ones? Is my setup going to do that? Those "normal" (are they so called DTV?) channels that I'm counting on to have better then Dish signal to watch football on.

Thanks for your help,

Jacek

Hey wabisabi, any thing to report about the hearing on the 25th? Or was it all one sided like the Eldorado meetings? Please advise.

jeff ... done ... thanks, didn't realize that thread existed.

38 is back on the air. Anybody have a contact at KBDI? That ten minute demo loop is beautiful (and 3 mins. of it is CO), but after the 100th time ...

Originally posted by Jacek Karpala
Thanks HDJello and Mark,

I new I'm missing something... I live in Arvada - 60th Ave and Eldrige.
Would it be correct if I say that there are two issues involved with hunt for the OTA channels - one is to get HD ones and second is to find "normal" ones? Is my setup going to do that? Those "normal" (are they so called DTV?) channels that I'm counting on to have better then Dish signal to watch football on.

Thanks for your help,

Jacek
Everybody gets different results, bug given your location as far west as you are, my guess is you could probably get KCNC-DT, KRMA-DT, and KDVR-DT, possibly with different antenna orientations. You might get lucky on KMGH-DT depending on your situation. You might find Ron Auger's DTV reception map at http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm interesting to see what success others have had, but you really have to try for yourself, as everybody has different results.

HD and DTV are somewhat independent concepts. All OTA HD is DTV but DTV is not necessarily HD (fox for instance does not broadcast any HD). The DTV stations broadcast SD programming sometimes and HD programming sometimes. Most football, for instance, is not HDTV today. In terms of getting better local picture quality than DISH, you might have good luck with the analog (NTSC) signals from lookout mountain. You would need a VHF antenna for 2, 4, 5, 6, and 9, whereas all of the Denver DTV stations are UHF.

Anyone in Superior, CO (near Louisville) getting anything other than FOX? And if so, how?

I have a Terk TV55 sitting in my living room on top of my 65" HDTV and I get 32 (FOX) at 65-72 signal strength. I get nothing on any other channels. Frankly I was surprised I get anything from inside the house.

Anyone know if mounting this outside will get me anything else than FOX and if not with this antenna is there somethign else I can use?

Thanks in advance...

Sakka,


First off... Welcome to the thread!

Check the map link below and see if which (if any) stations others in your area are receiving. Also check the link for the DTV Website, it has lots of useful info on the entire Denver DTV situation.

http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm

Hello Sakka,

Superior is south of 36, right? If you're behind the ridge there, you'll probably have a hard time getting anything from downtown unless you have a really high tower.

But, if you can get a reasonably clear line of sight to downtown, you should be able to get 18 and 35. I'd say that 17 is out of the question for your location.

santellavision, thanks, I did look at that map yesterday and I am certainly in a boarderline area at best. My problem with reading the map is I can't tell what each report of a green is using to get reception. Or am I missing something?

markdl, yes, south of 36, but behind that darn ridge. I would need a really big tower to get line of sight... somehow I don't think atmospheric bending is goign to cut it. But it might be worth a try... or HOA however is pain in the rear.

Few morw questions... I found this...

* KRMA-DT 18 PBS Denver CO Now Live 206°
* KDVR-DT 32 FOX Denver CO Now Live 206°
* KCNC-DT 35 CBS Denver CO Now Live 161°

* KTVJ-DT 15 HSN Boulder CO Nov 1 2002 201°
* KUSA-DT 16 NBC Denver CO Nov 1 2002 206°
* KDEN-DT 29 IND Longmont CO Nov 1 2002 65°
* KWHD-DT 46 IND Castle Rock CO Nov 1 2002 155°
* KCEC-DT 51 UNI Denver CO Nov 1 2002 206°

* KTVD-DT 19 UPN Denver CO May 1 2003 206°
* KPXC-DT 43 PAX Denver CO May 1 2003 200°

* KWGN-DT 34 WB Denver CO FCC Extension 206°

Anyone know if these dates are right, and from where and what kind of power will be used?

Also, anyone know what kind of antena I should be using if I am to try for the denver stations? I am willing to buy something to try it if my Terk TV55 is not worth using? I don't know where to look or what to look for... I at least have figured out this color code system on the antenas is worhtless... lol

Thanks everyone for the help!

Sakka,

The data for the points indicated on Ron's map is being collected in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1350577#post1350577

Many people are posting their equipment as well as their location and reception. You can probably get an idea of what other people are using in your neighborhood by reading that thread. Also, as you come up to speed, please post your results there. Welcome Aboard!

-John

Sakka,

KRMA and KUSA (hopefully by November, although I don't think any of us are holding our breath) are broadcast from the same location as KCNC - downtown on top of Republic Plaza, not from Lookout, as your listing there indicates.

KCNC: Thanks to you and CBS for presenting Mission Impossible 2 in Original Aspect Ratio (OAR). I've seen this movie on DirecTV, on DVD and now on KCNC in HD - pretty damn good it was too....now when CBS does 5.1 you'll be hard to beat. This movie is kind of lame but the decent HD transfer coupled with the OAR kept me tuned in.....Please pass along my vote for nothing but OAR movies...

Sakka:
Please read my note in the data thread regarding reception. You might be blocked but until you try you just will not know for sure. As to the dates: Those are the dates that the FCC extensions run out. The FCC will, in all probability, grant new dates which are 6 - 12 months further down the road.

Originally posted by Geof
KCNC: Thanks to you and CBS for presenting Mission Impossible 2 in Original Aspect Ratio (OAR). I've seen this movie on DirecTV, on DVD and now on KCNC in HD - pretty damn good it was too....now when CBS does 5.1 you'll be hard to beat. This movie is kind of lame but the decent HD transfer coupled with the OAR kept me tuned in.....Please pass along my vote for nothing but OAR movies...


I actually watched this off the National CBS feed on DISH, but I second Geof's comments. The OAR presentation combined with the 5.1 soundtrack on the national feed (at least I think it was 5.1), made this one of the most stunning HDTV programs I have seen yet. All I can say is WOW!

-John

EDIT: I guess this was actually DD2.0 even on the national feed. Looks like that is all CBS is putting out. My Sony Receiver did a pretty good job on it's "Cinema Studio A" encoding! My dad leaves this mode on by default, and I never checked the original signal. I guess this means I am not one of the holy Golden Ear's :)

Originally posted by Geof
[As to the dates: Those are the dates that the FCC extensions run out. The FCC will, in all probability, grant new dates which are 6 - 12 months further down the road.
I am under the impression that the extenssions are currently parceled out in 6 month increments. Even when a station is admonished by the FCC, there is a bonus 6 month period before any financial sanctions would be imposed. So even if the FCC does not grant an extension past Nov 1, 2002, the stations would effectively have until May 1, 2003 to get something up to avoid fines.

Sakka,

I also live in Superior and have been trying to receive the HDTV broadcasts without much success. Nice to see I'm not the only one in town trying to get a signal. I thought I would relay some of my misadventures trying to get a signal in Superior.

Our house is up the ridge where all the new construction is and we have a Hughes E86 receiver.

While waiting for our house to be built we lived in the Horizon Apartments and I didn't really expect to receive anything over the air. I placed a Terk TV55 on the balcony and to my surprise actually got ch35/18 at about 30. It was not really watch able because the image would break up a lot but it gave me hope that when the house was finished that I would be able to get a good signal with a better antenna.

Unfortunately that has not worked out so far. The Blake JBX21 seemed to be highly rated so that is what I ordered. All the pictures I had seen of this antenna were up in the air so I had no idea how big it actually was and I was wanting to place it in the attic. In a 2nd floor bedroom I was only able to receive ch35/18 in the high teens. With it up in the attic the signal spiked at 15 but jumped arround a lot. The Blake antenna is way to big to properly aim in the attic and our cement shingles don't help either. I also tried the Terk TV55 but all I get is a few blips.

I am also using a Channel Master preamp CM7778. This makes a big difference getting what little signal I do get.

I have given up on the attic location. I would like to try a inconspicuous antenna that could be mounted on the side of the house next but I'm not sure what to go with. That project will have to wait until I get more funds..

I would be very interested to hear what success you have. You can email me privately at taylor23@io.com


Steve

Sakka and Steve:

Welcome! The Terk antennas are generally rated among the worst out there despite what the big box stores would tell you. I have a CM 4248 large YAGI antenna on my roof. Even a RS double bow tie antenna usually gets better reviews than the Terks.

When I tried a pre amp on the mast, it was worse because the high power analog UHF stations overpowered the amp. The FCC has ruled that you can put an antenna on your roof to receive OTA signals and homeowners associations cannot stop you. Net, you have to do a little experimenting with height and placement to get a signal, if it is possible.

I live SW of CC State Park and get all the stations by pointing the YAGI to optimize 17.

If you search on antennas in the HDTV Hardware AVS Forum, you will have tons to read about. Our problem in Denver is the very low power from the stations downtown.

Sakka,
FYI, It doesn't always have to be line-of-sight. I live up in Genesee and do not have a line-of-sight to downtown or Mt Morrison and i can get 18,32,35. I do have to aim my Channel Master 3023 Yagi, antenna off the actual direction of downtown though.

Santellavision,
Just a quick point of correction, I think Ch32 is located on Lookout Mountain, not Mt. Morrison.

-Wabisabi

I just received the following email from KRMA. I hope I can get the audio to work with my DTC 100. Still having problems syncing on national feeds.

The program Over Alaska will be fed in HD on Tuesday, 10/1 (tonight) at 19:00 & 22:00 (MT).

The frequency will be RX-IF=1379.

It will be broadcast on KRMA DT-18.

We can't let our thread here fall to page 3! Shame on us... :D

Anyone know what happened at KCNC last night at about 8:47 or so? I lost signal for about 5 seconds, and then when it came back, the rest of the Guardian and the first part of Judging Amy were the 4x3 feed, not the HD feed. I switched over to HBO for the Sopranos just after 9, so I don't know if they ever got the problem fixed.

At about 9:10, they went back to HD. Someone probably forgot to push a switch after local commercials at 8:47.

I am just happy that David Layne got their tinny sound problems fixed before the new season! CBS rules!

Tinny sound is gone on KCNC-DT, but I'm still having problems with lip sync. It seems like it's getting better, so I'm willing to let them tinker until they get it right :)

I'm not seeing any lip sync issues on 35 on my dish 6000 or my hipix.

Don't forget to vote by 10 tonight, dr_mal! :D

Originally posted by markdl
We can't let our thread here fall to page 3! Shame on us... :D

In my best Dr Smith imitation: Oh, the shame, the shame... :eek:

Hey guys, I think I know a way to keep the thread on the front page. I got a note back from HDNet today and it looks like I may be able to set something up for a tour with only one hitch. They can only do 12 folks at a time. I have to head out of town for a few days so I can't do the body count. Can you guys get an initial head count on the interest in a tour of HDNet's studios for me and I will contact them next week when I am back to discuss some dates? I just would like a rough guess of how many (?) tours we might need.

(drool)

Sign me up for any night except Thursdays.

Thanks jm!

I'm in -- anytime (that's 2! :D)

Count me in as well!!!! (#3)

Make it four (as long as it's not the week of the 22nd)...

Sounds great! Count me in! (five!)

Anyone else flip through to see any of the baseball game tonight on Ch 32 Faux? It looks like they've got their widescreen working again. Looking better than it has in a while.

Well, I've been viewing the TiVo forum for a few years off and on, and now just started viewing the HDTV forum this past week or so. I'm going to go get an antenna this weekend and slap it up in the attic and see what I can get down here in Centennial. (Tower&Smokey Hill). I can only get Fox on 32 with my goofy indoor antenna.

Anyway, I've been watching HDNet for about 4 months and would love to take the tour. However, I am new here and don't want to jump in and take a spot that the regulars should have first. But I can try :) (Six)

Definitely! Count me as number 3.

I'm in for the tour of the HDNet facilities!

Just give me the time and the place!

It would be nice if at least one of their trucks would be there for the tour as well, from what I read online those are some loaded semis!

Steve

#9 - I'm definitely there, anytime!

Faux? I flipped over there last night, and had almost no signal. I just figured they were having problems again.

I'm in, number #10. Will Mr. Cuban be in attendance?

yes, i flipped to channel 31-1 last night, and there was nothing, as well as channel 38, it was blank, and to keeping on my mission, i flipped to 7-1, and it was dark also. (I thought I would keep the old saying, three times is a charm) LOL

Heads up:
Mt. Morrison Decision
Hearing Room #1 Taj Mahal
Wednesday, October 9, 2002, 6:00 p.m.

I'm in. I guess I am #11.

Originally posted by pookers
Will Mr. Cuban be in attendance?


I wouldn't expect him to be -- I believe he's based out of Dallas.

I too, would love to see one of their production trucks. If they are planning on doing the NHL again this year, I'd expect their trucks to be at some rink producing a game, though.

Hmmm. I flipped over to 31-1 at about 6:30, I guess, and it was on for me. I didn't watch the whole game, so I don't know if it went dark later in the game, just noticed that it was widescreen Faux HD for the first time that I've noticed in a while. It's not normal that I get a digital station in Greeley that the rest of you don't! ;)

Speaking of not being able to get digital channels in Greeley... I noticed some other threads about AT&T starting up some HD cable (Seattle, Chicago), so I called them up last night to ask when/if they might start offering HD cable around here.

The first two people I talked to said that if a show is broadcast in HD, and I had an HD set, I could get it now (without a box or anything). I told them both that I didn't think this was right, that there has to be an HD conversion box of some sort. Finally, the guy comes back on, says he talked to someone who told him that indeed it wasn't available yet, but that the hope was that they would begin offering in January of 2003.

I asked if they would begin in Denver, then move into the smaller cities like Greeley, Ft. Collins, etc. And he said no, when they start, they will be able to do the entire front range (he mentioned Greeley specifically has torn out all their existing cable and replaced them with fiber optic cable so they we are ready).

This is promising news if true. Does anyone here have any contacts at AT&T to verify this? Didn't we have a former poster here who went on to work for AT&T? Anyway, thought I'd pass that news on. I swore off cable many years ago, but I'd jump back to them in a hurry thanks to the tower situation!

Yeah, I'd probably sign up for cable too if they had all the locals in HD. Sure wish we could get some confirmation.....

Bud Rath are you there???

That's right. Bud now works for AT&T. It'd be great to hear from him again, especially about this! Because, if it were true, I'd be back to cable in a heartbeat too!

Bud Rath. Yup, that's who I was trying to think of. Anyone here still in contact with him?

The entire cable biz in Denver is a mess at the moment too. With Comcast taking over AT&T (And by the way laying off hundereds in Denver) i wouldn't hope for Cable-HD here that way very soon either :(

I'd love to take the tour too!

-John

HDNet tour? Sure! #13.

John in Jeffco

I am not sure what to think about Ernie's statement not to get our hopes up for HD via cable. I had read that ATT's biggest hurdle was to get the capability and that their network for the ATT Broadband was to be used to roll out.

However, if KUSA won't have a signal to put out to them, we still wouldn't have any of the NBC HD,etc. It sure would help KMGH reach more than the lucky few of us who receive it now.

Jeff

Please include me for the tour. It would be worth the drive there.

Reggie (in Fort Collins)

Jeff,
It's that i've read (on this forum site and others) that Comcast is awful. They charge huge fees for the HD convertor boxes and in some markets, don't even carry all the local HD stations. I just can't imagine them being better here. Hell, even if I wanted to get cable (I don't) they still don't offer digital cable in my area!

Originally posted by jeffden
I am not sure what to think about Ernie's statement not to get our hopes up for HD via cable. I had read that ATT's biggest hurdle was to get the capability and that their network for the ATT Broadband was to be used to roll out.

However, if KUSA won't have a signal to put out to them, we still wouldn't have any of the NBC HD,etc. It sure would help KMGH reach more than the lucky few of us who receive it now.

Jeff Hopefully there would be a KUSA HD signal if they get their setup on line as reported earlier in this thread. But that brings up another point - If AT&T is going to pickup the digital stations how are they going to get the signals? They wouldn't have to rely on OTA signals (but it would be expensive to have it 'hardwired" in). If they do rely on OTA then would they be able to get KMGH?

I called AT&T Broadband yesterday and a supervisor told me there were no plans for HDTV in the Denver area. He tried to tell me their digital NTSC signal was the same as a digital ATSC signal. I think I knew more about digital TV than he did. Good luck on HDTV via AT&T Broadband in Denver.

Originally posted by Hot
I called AT&T Broadband yesterday and a supervisor told me there were no plans for HDTV in the Denver area. He tried to tell me their digital NTSC signal was the same as a digital ATSC signal. I think I knew more about digital TV than he did. Good luck on HDTV via AT&T Broadband in Denver. Of course he lost all credibility when he said "their digital NTSC signal was the same as a digital ATSC signal". While I remain skeptical about AT&T picking up the ATSC signals I wouldn't put much stock in anything their CSR's say...

OTOH, surely the stations must be aware if AT&T has any such plans If they are not bound by a NDA could someone from one of the stations please step forward and give us the skinny??

Wait a minute -- if the cable companies currently get the NTSC signal OTA*, why wouldn't the get the ATSC signal OTA as well? Which brings up the question: can the cable companies receive the current HDTV signals (especially KMGH -- I bet they could get the others) from their headend? Of course, it would be the ultimate irony if people who want HDTV locals via cable couldn't get them because they aren't being broadcast OTA from the "evil" towers on Lookout Mountain.

* my recollection is that KCNC, at least, only has one direct connection to a TV service provider, and that's DirecTV.

Hehe, dr_mal, wouldn't that be the ultimate irony! As far as I know, the AT&T/TCI/WHOSE NEXT head end is at Mile Hi Stadium, basically. It is in a "depression" as I would call it. Certainly not high-up.

I know AT&T/TCI cable have rebuilt a number of areas around town, but have not had contact with them recently. Last I checked I could not get a Cable Modem in my Zipcode of Greenwood Village (SE area). My guess is that HD Cable is still a ways off for most of us.

-John

And as JM in Boulder has stated in the past, it needs to be free via OTA antenna. Cable would help the percentages, but the free OTA must be included.
Jeff

I notice that KDVR-HD32 now shows up as KDUR in the guide on my 6000.

Anybody else notice this?

So:

a. I have a messed up 6000?

b. They or the FCC changed call letters for the digital channel to KDUR?

c. Some guy in engineering is named DUR?

d. They really don't know what their call letters are?

;)

Phil,

Mine still shows up as KDVR on my Mits reciever.

Mine was also changed to KDUR-DT on my RCA unit. Dunno what the scoop is with that.

Hi guys,

I'm off for another day of antenna pointing and thought I would just post something I found here for anyone else it may help. I do not have line of sight to lookout or downtown due to a bunch of trees and stuff in my way. So, I have been pointing kind of blindly where I thought they were. (Not to mention one antenna is in the attic.) Anyway, I found this site, www.antennaweb.org which allows you to type in your address and come up with compass headings towards the various towers. For example for me, it looks like;

Lookout = 282 degrees
Republic = 315 degrees
ABC = 312 degrees
and Squaw (morrison?) is 268 degrees

While I am sure these aren't perfect, they will give me at least a decent starting point. See ya and go Broncos!

-John

EDIT: Ooops, it was .org not .com

Speaking of KDVR, has anybody seen a baseball playoff game in their widescreen mode?

I've seen a couple playoff games. It's not too bad. Widescreen seems to be working. They had the NY Giants/cowboys football game this afternoon also. I'm not one to dish out compliments to Faux too often, but it looked much better than the Sunday Ticket on DirecTv.

Hi folks, I am back in town. From the looks of the thread, it appears that a couple of tours with 12 should accommodate everyone. I think I counted about 15 or 16??? and I have a couple of private contacts who are also interested. 24 should do unless there are a lot more sign ups.

I can't be specific on any dates yet, but we did talk about scheduling tours when at least one of the remote trucks are in town so we can get to see one. Obviously that will limit the available choices of dates. I will contact them this week and try to firm things up. Anyone who is interested please post in the thread or contact me so we can be sure two tours is enough. BTW, for those who aren't aware where this place is, the studio is in the old Stapleton Airport area. I will post details when things are better arranged.

If there is room for this tour I would like to go.

Thanks
Joe

FYI. Link to an editorial posted on msn.com re: digital tuners and OTA broadcast.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2071935.


Looks like I may be movin' to San Francisco if I decide to take a great job opportunity. The HDTV has got to be better there than here.

Originally posted by joej
If there is room for this tour I would like to go.

Thanks
Joe

Joe, I think you can count on making a tour. I am going to schedule two tour dates under the assumption we will grow to about 20-24 people. I will post the dates as soon as we get them set up (maybe tomorrow or Wed.), and I will ask people to commit to one date at the start. If we have very many drop out due to schedule conflicts we may be able to squeeze it all into one tour. We will have to do a serious head count for each tour to make sure we do not get too many people on one tour. There is not a lot of room in these facilities for large groups of people. At present, it sounds like the tours will be led by Glenn Moore who is in charge of Master Control and was responsible for setting up most of the operation. It should be very informative, and I am sure he will be able to tackle all of our questions.

Originally posted by mtnhigh

Looks like I may be movin' to San Francisco if I decide to take a great job opportunity. The HDTV has got to be better there than here.

The HDTV dang near anywhere is better than here! Even in many (and soon to be most) of the minor markets too.

We are the only ones left in the top 50 market with nothing on the air at full power for major networks (check the FCC web pages). If I see one more of those 50'th anniversary commercials on KUSA about how they are high tech because they get a million hits on their website I think I am going to barf.
:mad:

A few years ago I tried to buy a antenna for my roof with rotor - could not find anyone installing them anymore. No way will I do this at my age with a walk out basement - the house is three stories tall. It is clear that in Fort Collins I need to have a roof antenna to have any chance at all to get a HDTV signal. Anyone in this area (Fort Collins) have any luck installing a antenna. (I know I will be the scourge of my development after I put one up.)

TIA

Reggie

JMartinko, thanks for putting the tour together. I'm looking forward to the tour!

I got my antenna up this past weekend and I'm getting cbs & pbs (was already getting fox using the indoor), but my guess is that abc is just to far and to weak for me to get from centennial. Is there any hope they will at least boost their signal soon?

Is there any hope they will at least boost their signal soon?They have stated that they wouldn't. They also have said they would not move to Republic either. But... who knows?

KUSA for a long time has said they absolutely wouldn't put a X-mitter on Republic...
Then they sucked it up and changed their tune. But... we haven't heard a word on whether they are actually putting it together yet (They said November - Yeah Right!)

I'm going to go to the Taj tomorrow night for the decision on BCDC/PIC, i'll report back after. I don't know what to think? If it gets approved, i hope it opens the door. If it goes down in flames, It's definitely not a good sign for LCG.

If anybody else is going, drop me a PM.

I'm going to go to the Taj tomorrow night for the decision on BCDC/PIC, i'll report back after. I don't know what to think? If it gets approved, i hope it opens the door. If it goes down in flames, It's definitely not a good sign for LCG.
I'll be very interested to hear the results (I am out of town at the moment). That said, keep in mind this is just the Planning Board recommendation - the Board of County Commissioners have the final say and they can vote for or against regardless of what the Planning Board recommends.

As to the KMGH situation - I suggest you drop them an email. There is a contacts link on their web site (www.thedenverchannel.com) and you can send an email directly to the GM (Cindy Velasquez). I received a reply from her on my second email asking how I arrived at the 2005 time-frame for full power. I think our stations are still in denial that it's going to be awhile before they get any facility built on Lookout. I do not understand how they expect to complete the JeffCo process quickly but I sense that even Pete is overly optimistic on the time-frame involved. All I can say is look at past applications....I believe the KRMA Morrison app is almost a year old and it's not even before the Commissioners yet. The LCG app is now stalled because of the request for more info. I have not heard when the hearings are expected to start but I suspect it will be late next year before any decision is made. IF approved it will be another year for the construction phase but the big unknown will be how much the (almost sure thing) (S)CARE lawsuit against the approval will delay the process. In the meantime most us us can forget about watching this season's Superbowl in HD or the Stanley Cup finals in HD or the NBA finals in HD or Monday Night Football games (next year) in HD because KMGH refuses to acknowledge that it may take them several years to get a real full power facility built. Once again I suggest that everyone write KMGH and the FCC asking KMGH to relocate their antenna. Their existing setup is a joke and should not be viewed as a viable low power facility geeze - even cell phones have more range (ok, not quite, but it seems like it). Waiting to complain until the Superbowl is almost upon us (or Monday Night football next year) will not allow you to watch those events in HD.....

Geof,
Your right, i forgot, this is only the Planning Board. We still have to go through the whole public meeting circus again with the Commissioners, then the Appeal Board (if it gets approved) because you know (S)Care's never gonna' give up.

They're like the freakin' "Scareminator"!

Originally posted by Geof
I'll be very interested to hear the results (I am out of town at the moment). That said, keep in mind this is just the Planning Board recommendation - the Board of County Commissioners have the final say and they can vote for or against regardless of what the Planning Board recommends.......
Once again I suggest that everyone write KMGH and the FCC asking KMGH to relocate their antenna. Their existing setup is a joke and should not be viewed as a viable low power facility geeze - even cell phones have more range. Waiting to complain until the Superbowl is almost upon us (or Monday Night football next year) will not allow you to watch those events in HD.....

Geof, should you really be writing things in this forum at 4:40 in the morning. Apparently your business trips are not filled with the usual excitement and parties that most people see. You might want to talk to your booking agent.

Of course I am sitting here holding my breath waiting for the approval from the Planning Board. Did Hell freeze over yet? Anyone know the current temperature down there?

As for writing KMGH I too would recommend writing Cindy directly. KMGH is not on the air for all practical purposes no matter what they claim. As for KUSA, I think the pressure for November is from the fact their current extension for the license is only good till then. They are probably afraid of the FCC seeing inaction and giving them a fine. All that being said I will believe it only when I see the signal meter on one of my receivers peg. Of course I also think those of you who really want to watch the Super Bowl, Stanley Cup etc. in HD had better start learning the words to "O Canada" so you can get a Canadian address.;) What a great comment on affairs when the people in Canada have better access to American network television than the people in Denver.

jm, I wrote the message at 6:30 AM EST but the AVS software thinks I live in the Rocky Mountain time zone hence the 4:46 post time.....

Evidently the toy transmitter KMGH is using is good enough to get the FCC off their backs (I think they got the transmitter from a WWII surplus catalog :)). Anyway, given the fact that they are not inclined to move I guess that is all they care about.

Originally posted by A4Short
A few years ago I tried to buy a antenna for my roof with rotor - could not find anyone installing them anymore. No way will I do this at my age with a walk out basement - the house is three stories tall. It is clear that in Fort Collins I need to have a roof antenna to have any chance at all to get a HDTV signal. Anyone in this area (Fort Collins) have any luck installing a antenna. (I know I will be the scourge of my development after I put one up.)

TIA

Reggie

Reggie,

I know that a couple of years ago, Pro-Tech (based in Greeley) did install TV antennas in Fort Collins. I briefly spoke with them about that topic around then. I don't know about their quality, etc. They are at 800-491-5202.

Of course the bad news is that it is unlikely that you will get anything other than the Fox non-HDTV DTV channel. And, depending on where you are, you might even be able to get that from the local translator with an indoor antenna-- it might be worth a try. But, by the end of next year, there is a chance we could get KRMA, KWGN and KGWN (Cheyenne), so eventually that antenna/rotor could pay off.

Let us know how it works for you. And, if you happen to live in my area, be happy to know that I think antennas are beautiful. :)

Mark

Originally posted by JMartinko
Of course I also think those of you who really want to watch the Super Bowl, Stanley Cup etc. in HD had better start learning the words to "O Canada" so you can get a Canadian address.;) What a great comment on affairs when the people in Canada have better access to American network television than the people in Denver.

I knew my heritage would pay off down here eventually :D

O Canada
Our home and native land
True patriot love in all thy sons command
With glowing hearts, we see thee rise
The true north strong and free
From far and wide O Canada
We stand on guard for thee
God keep our land glorious and free
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee!

And just in case there's a quiz, here's the rant (from a very popular Molson Canadian commercial that ran last year):

Hey, I'm not a lumberjack, or a fur trader....
I don't live in an igloo or eat blubber, or own a dogsled....
and I don't know Jimmy, Sally or Suzy from Canada,
although I'm certain they're really really nice.

I have a Prime Minister, not a president.
I speak English and French, not American.
And I pronounce it 'about', not 'a boot'.

I can proudly sew my country's flag on my backpack.
I believe in peace keeping, not policing,
diversity, not assimilation,
and that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal.
A toque is a hat, a chesterfield is a couch,
and it is pronounced 'zed' not 'zee', 'zed' !!!!

Canada is the second largest landmass!
The first nation of hockey!
and the best part of North America

My name is Joe!!
And I am Canadian!!! [ed: and I can get American HDTV!!!]

Hi Guys,

I've send an e-mail to Ch7 as well...I want the SB in HiDef!
But what do we do meanwhile? how you are watching the games on "big" screens? How do you process the signal from Dish to achieve better quality? Is the quality of the signal of the local channels so bad that there is nothing that can be done with it? I do not want to pay $3000 for minor PQ improvement - its too much for me.

Thanks,

Jacek

Well thats about the size of it Jacek. The stuff on Dish is just compressed too much. But just as an OTA antenna could get you some of the local digital channels we do have with ones OTA digital tuner (like Dish 6000/8vsb module), I suppose one could tweek an antenna for the local analog channels too if they were so inclined. Theres no question that the best way to receive local analog channels is with an antenna as opposed to Dish or even cable.. if a person wants to bother with it.

I personally dont, I dont even have a VHF antenna installed. I just use a UHF one which gets me all the local digital channels. As far as any local channels that arent digital yet like 2 or 9 for example, well, basically, I just dont watch those channels at all. And I wont sub to the local channels off Dish.

Thanks DP1,

What antenna are you using? Are you getting Ch7? On the map - the one receiver indicated in Arvada is not getting it. I get Ch 32, 35, and PBS, was able to lock on ABC (Ch17?) for brief moment but lost it - can't get it back. The analog local channels did not look any better then from Dish, though. Do you have to rotate your antenna to get all channels?

Greetings,

Jacek

I have 2 seperate digital tuners so I have 2 different antennas. One big outdoor UHF only one which I need in a very specific spot to be able to get 17, and then another one I use on the other tuner. That keeps me from needing a rotor.

Yeah, Arvada (and the whole north side for that matter) is tough for 17. I live down south.

As far as your analog reception, what type of antenna are *you* using. Is it for both UHF and VHF? Is it big, and outdoors? That would be crucial for any shot at 17 up there I'd think) And naturally it would have to be VHF to get the best possible picture on 2,4,7,9 etc.

Dr. Mal
Thanks for that stirring rendition (though silent) of "O Canada". It brought tears to my eyes and I'm an American. (Actually I think the tears were for the sad state of HD affairs down here in the states. (Technically I guess that would be in 'this state'). As for the commercials, one of the biggest benefits of Canadian TV, as far as I am concerned, is the ability to watch Don Cherry in Coaches Corner on Hockey Night In Canada (he and Ron McClean just signed new contracts and will be on again this year), along with the great Molson commercials during the year. Those Canadians sure are lucky in some regards, eh!

Dan,

I did try big-ass VHF/UHF outdoor antenna on 10' stick of 1" EMT but could not live with placement of it - middle of the back yard...
I was hoping that some of those indoor amplified gizmos would work, like for some people here...I will try the GE Optima and RCA ANT1250 indoor antennas as well...will let you know.

Jacek

Just found this information on the transition progress.

DTV TRANSITION BREAKS THROUGH THE 500 STATION MARK


-- 13 New Stations Flip the Digital Switch --

-- Broadcast DTV Signals in Markets that Include 90% of Homes --

-- 46% of Americans in Markets with 4 or More Broadcast DTV Signals --

-- Washington, DC the latest Digital TV Zone --


Details at:
http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/Pressrel/releases/6002.htm

I also watched the 'self serving' story on KUSA this morning about their first 50 years and how they have always been the leader in technology in the Denver market. Oh, yes, they did mention they are 'transitioning to digital pictures'. No mention of which century they plan to do this though!

KUSA was not mentioned in the above article. I also wonder if they count KMGH broadcasting to 15 people the same as 'market coverage' 46% of Americans have access to 4 or more DTV signals. I suspect the folks in Ft. Collins and outside the downtown Denver area would fall into the 10% of homes without broadcast DTV available. I would guess other areas include the remote regions of West Virginia and Tennessee and some areas in the swamps in Florida and bayous of Louisiana.

Perspective is always important!
:mad:

From KRMA:

The program Spirit of Colorado "Cowboys" will be fed in HD on Saturday, 10/12 at 19:30 (MT).

It will be broadcast on KRMA DT-18.

This will be coming from tape.

Just got the word on the details on the tour. I know it is short notice, but Glenn told me the trucks will have to hit the road at the end of next week (hockey coverage I hope?????--I asked but he wouldn't say why). At any rate, we are going to try one tour and split the team into two groups and alternate between the master control room and a remote truck. The tour has to be in the afternoon as their workload is too heavy later at night. The facility is at the south end of the old Stapleton Area, and I will provide directions later on. Parking is readily available and should not be an issue.

I need to get a pretty firm head count just in case it grows too big. Last count was in the 15-18 area, so please post in. Also if someone still has the group email list and can send out a notice in case people are not reading the forum I would appreciate it so no one gets left out. Newbies (and Lurkers) are welcome. If the group gets too big we will work that issue, but we should be able to handle up to about 24.

Count me as 1. Thanks for your help and fast turnaround on this.

#2.

John in Jeffco

3

#4

Originally posted by JMartinko
...
KUSA was not mentioned in the above article. I also wonder if they count KMGH broadcasting to 15 people the same as 'market coverage' 46% of Americans have access to 4 or more DTV signals. I suspect the folks in Ft. Collins and outside the downtown Denver area would fall into the 10% of homes without broadcast DTV available. I would guess other areas include the remote regions of West Virginia and Tennessee and some areas in the swamps in Florida and bayous of Louisiana.

Perspective is always important!
:mad:

I think Ft. Collins is counted in the 90% who have DTV (because of KDVR-DT), and I think we are also falsely counted in the 46% who have access to 4 or more DTV signals.

If I get on antennaweb.org, Zenith, and other similar sites, they show KCNC and KRMA as LIVE and can be received from Ft. Collins with modest antennas. I'm sure this is still based on LCG1 specifications.

So, I'll be the NAB, and maybe even the FCC, counts us wrongly, saying we get: KDVR (Fox), KFCT (Fox translator), KCNC (wrong) and KRMA (wrong). They may even count KMGH because we are in their market area.

Mark

In the afternoon might be tough for me. Let me know what time and I will still try to make it.

On another note did any one else try to watch the baseball game last night on FOX 32? I tried for a while but the pixellization (sp?) was really bad at times. Is it just me or did other people have the same problem?

Also I notice that the one time they showed the announcers there voice was about 5 seconds different from there lips.

Anyone else? I tried the digital because usually the picture I get off there is better than what I get from DirecTv.

Thanks
Joe

#5!
Thanks JM!

6

Hi Joe,

I did experience the same on Fox 32 - terrible sound delay and pixelation...
I kept playing with my antenna though...

Jacek

7, thanks JM!

-John

#8, Thanx..I can't wait !

#9 -- Great googley-moogley!

Originally posted by Jacek Karpala
Hi Joe,

I did experience the same on Fox 32 - terrible sound delay and pixelation...
I kept playing with my antenna though...

Jacek
Yeah I did see that too. I tought I had bad reception but it might look like a problem with the station.

Originally posted by joej
In the afternoon might be tough for me. Let me know what time and I will still try to make it.



Joe - the tour will be at 4:00 (from JM's title of his message).

count me as #10!

The Planning Commission voted on Mt. Morrison just now. There was no testimony, just discussion among the commission.

The first motion was to Deny the tower based upon visual concerns and alternative sites. This failed with a 4-3 vote.

Next, a motion to approve the site failed by a 4-3 vote.

Next, a new motion do deny based upon siting and visual failed 4-3.

Finally, a motion to deny based solely on visual was passed, 4-3.

So, in summary, the planning commission voted to recommend denial of the case. The reasons were visual. - The building is too big and on the ridge line. -- the road to the site may need to be brought up to county standards, and no one knows what impact that will have.

No dates are set yet for the Board of County Commissioners to hear the case.

-Wabisabi

10

Originally posted by wabisabi

...
Finally, a motion to deny based solely on visual was passed, 4-3.

So, in summary, the planning commission voted to recommend denial of the case. The reasons were visual. - The building is too big and on the ridge line. -- the road to the site may need to be brought up to county standards, and no one knows what impact that will have.

No dates are set yet for the Board of County Commissioners to hear the case.

-Wabisabi

Amazing. This project spent an extensive amount of time and money and community outreach to come up with alternatives with minimum visual impact. What else could they have done? I suppose there is still some hope the BCC will see the close vote at the planning commission and go the other way.

My condolences to Rocky Mountain PBS and other broadcasters who seem to face nearly impossible obstacles with JeffCo.

Mark

JM,

Did they give you any idea how long the tour would last?

This is another nail in the coffin for any reasonable movement in JeffCo. KMGH needs to move their setup so more than 15 folks can view the signal and indeed all stations need to vigorously pursue finding a more suitable temporary location. While it's too soon to tell how the JeffCo Commissioners will vote I would not give good odds to either the Morrison or LCG apps. The fact of the matter is no matter how desirable Lookout and/or Morrison may appear it's beginning to look like that will never happen. Just how the hell long will we have to wait?

I am absolutely disgusted with the selfishness of the *******s in jeffCo.

jm
Count me as #11...

I didn't get to the JeffCo meeting due a last minute business crisis. So, if they are recommending denial, why would the Commissioners set a date to hear it? Wouldn't they just say sorry charlie, you lose again?

I'm sorry. If the horizontal antenna gets rejected because of visual concerns, there is no hope for LCG2.

Here is an e-mail I drafted and sent off to Chairman Powell with copies going to Cindy Velasquez and Roger Ogden.

Hello Mr. Powell,

Thank you for your efforts in boosting the conversion to digital television broadcasting. It is much appreciated.

I am sending to you this e-mail to express my concern over the OTA DTV situation in Denver, Colorado. I know that we share the hope that the antenna zoning concerns in the Denver area will be resolved in the next year or two. This, however, does not appear likely to happen in the next year and a half due to current delays in the 2nd zoning application of the Lake Cedar Group consortium. We may have to wait until the analog TV shut off day to get full power digital here in Denver. Antenna construction will take a year to occur after approval by Jefferson County. I fully support the 2nd zoning application of the Lake Cedar Group consortium.

I am also sending this to express the concern that two of the major network stations, KMGH Channel 7, and KUSA Channel 9 are not yet broadcasting digitally to a majority of the Denver metropolitan area. Channel 7 is broadcasting from the top of their building, however, their
coverage does not represent a majority of the metro Denver area. Channel 9 is not broadcasting digitally at all. Recently, there was a report that KUSA plans to join KCNC News 4 and KRMA PBS at the top of the Republic Plaza building. I hope this is true. KMGH has so far denied that they need to come up with a low power temporary solution to cover the majority of the Denver metropolitan area until high power digital broadcasting can be done.

It seems to me that these two major television stations of a major metropolitan area could do just a bit more to offer digital broadcasting to a majority of the Denver metropolitan area by committing to offering a low power broadcast from the Republic Plaza facility until such time that full power digital broadcasts are possible in Denver.

I therefore would like to ask a big favor of you. Could you give the general managers of KMGH and KCNC a call to see how they are doing with the digital transition?

Cindy Velasquez, general manager of KMGH Channel 7 Denver can be reached at 303-832-7777.

Roger Ogden, general manager of KUSA Channel 9 Denver can be reached at 303-871-9999.

Little things make a big difference. I believe that if you could find the time to make these two phone calls, the digital television conversion here in Denver would get some much needed help.

Thanks again,
Don Heckel
<home address>
<email address>

O.K. I can make it the tour at 4:00, no probelm, I missed that part I guess.

Glad to hear that I am not the only one with problems on 32. It was no better last night either. I guess we should let them know that people are trying to watch there digital station. I'll send them an e-mail and see if I hear anything back.

Thanks guys
Joe

Originally posted by santellavision
I didn't get to the JeffCo meeting due a last minute business crisis. So, if they are recommending denial, why would the Commissioners set a date to hear it? Wouldn't they just say sorry charlie, you lose again?

The Planning Commission is just advisory, like staff. The BCC decides what is approved or not. I didn't have time last night to go into details or impressions, but will try to do that now.

Some Commissioners thought the "horizontal tower" was great, but that the building was just too big and not designed with nearly as much care as the tower. Only one Commissioners thought the horizontal tower was worse than the existing one. What this means to me is that the applicants need to do a better job of showing what the tower and building will look like.

The road to the site may or may not need to be upgraded to county specifications. The fire department is the one who decides that. Currently, no-one knows what the fire department will require. If the FD wants the road brought up to current specs, it may not fit within the right-of-way for the existing road, in which case easements may be needed. Also, no visual study was presented for what the road impacts will be, even though the chairman specifically asked for one.

The building as shown in the graphics is much shorter that what their written restrictions would allow. Even so, the building in the graphics would not even meet minimum architectural requirements of the county. When you consider the care that went into the design of the tower, it is strange that the support building has such an unimaginative design.

The good news is that these are solvable issues.

What is interesting is that three of the seven commissioners felt that Squaw could be used instead of Mt. Morrison, and that the applicant had not demonstrated that it would not work.

-Wabisabi

Originally posted by wabisabi
.....................
The good news is that these are solvable issues.

What is interesting is that three of the seven commissioners felt that Squaw could be used instead of Mt. Morrison, and that the applicant had not demonstrated that it would not work.

-Wabisabi

Although they sound solvable, they don't sound like issues that can be 'fixed' overnight. I would think there would be considerable effort involved in identifying changes required to the road. More significantly, it sounds like they will need to totally redesign the building, which has got to take another 6 months to do. You can't just go redline a couple of drawings and tell the county 'we will cut this corner off and add three more feet underground or some such solution'. This sounds pretty ominous to me. Am I missing something???

As for the Squaw issue, perhaps we should send the commissioners and KRMA a copy of the coverage map for KBDI that we have seen. Perhaps the Squaw supporters would care (pardon the pun) to explain to us how Squaw is going to work. We could also ask some of the (S)CARE folks with HDTV stb's can help show us see how easy it is to get KBDI in their own locations (maybe we can hold a meeting at one of their homes!! :D ).

jm in Boulder

Can not make the tour on the 14th. Sorry. That week I am the only one home to take care of my daughter and she has a Girl Scout meeting that day. Sigh. My bad luck. Thanks for setting this up.

Reggie

Thanks Wabisabi,
Your right, maybe they can address these visual concerns and illustrate some nice pretty pictures of the tower, the road and the buildings. But, I'm still not sure the commissioners will care about that though (They seem to be predisposed to any towers)
We may have to wait until the analog TV shut off day to get full power digital here in Denver. Don, this is still not that easy. The stations would still have to change their antenna's on those towers. That would require going to battle yet again to get that approved. Their best bet is still to beat (S)CareCo at their own game and cut all the towers down to under 200 feet and use that short tower zoning loophole! We could also ask some of the (S)CARE folks with HDTV stb's can help show us see how easy it is to get KBDI in their own locations (maybe we can hold a meeting at one of their homes!! ) They can certainly come to my home and try to get DT38 (Ain't gonna happen!)

#12

So, is the visit at 4PM on Monday, October 14th for sure?? I missed the post about Monday.

I just talked to Eddie Hernandez at KBDI and Mike Howey at KDVR on the status of their DTV signals.

KBDI-DT ch38
I noticed that ch38 has been up and down alternately almost every time I check and asked Eddie about the status and schedule of changes to their DTV xmitter. He explained that the xmitter they are currently using is borrowed for eqpt testing purposes and they will continue to broadcast very sporadically. It might be hard for many of you to see if you can lock on to it when you don't know if they are xmitting or not. He said they will hear the decision on a grant next week which would allow them to purchase their own xmitter. He asked for, and I sent him, the link to this thread and he said he would keep us informed. When I asked about content, he said they wanted to air as much HDTV as they could get their hands on (IMO probably not any more or different content than KRMA). But at least KBDI from Squaw reaches a different subset of viewers than KRMA does from Republic Plaza. He also said he was working toward a solution to the shadowing issue, but I'm not sure what that entailed. He hoped to let us know more on their scheduling (for infrastructure changes) after next week.
KDVR-DT ch32
I had talked to Mike Howey back in April when they sent their encoder back to the manufacturer in CA and hoped to have it back in 2 weeks. Now it seems they sent their whole setup back (he mentioned 4 pieces: encoder, MUX, computer system that controls it all, and something else). The manufacturer is still looking into their problems and said they might have to send it all to England to be worked on. KDVR didn't seem too optimistic about a resolution before the end of the year. As you guys have noted, they are able to pass some shows through in 16x9 but everything will be 480i until their eqpt issues are resolved. Mike thought this might give the station some impetus to go with another vendor / other eqpt. The stuff that's broke is at least 3 years old and this area of technology is changing as fast as the PC industry. It seems all the FOX's across the country use a variety of eqpt and are not standardized even amongst the O&O (I didn't realize KDVR was O&O too, like KCNC), mostly dependent on when they went live in DTV and what was available at that time.

Originally posted by JMartinko
Just got the word on the details on the tour. I know it is short notice, but Glenn told me the trucks will have to hit the road at the end of next week (hockey coverage I hope?????--I asked but he wouldn't say why). At any rate, we are going to try one tour and split the team into two groups and alternate between the master control room and a remote truck. The tour has to be in the afternoon as their workload is too heavy later at night. The facility is at the south end of the old Stapleton Area, and I will provide directions later on. Parking is readily available and should not be an issue.

I need to get a pretty firm head count just in case it grows too big. Last count was in the 15-18 area, so please post in. Also if someone still has the group email list and can send out a notice in case people are not reading the forum I would appreciate it so no one gets left out. Newbies (and Lurkers) are welcome. If the group gets too big we will work that issue, but we should be able to handle up to about 24.

Count me as 1. Thanks for your help and fast turnaround on this.

Since someone posted that they had missed the announcement, I thought I would post it one more time as a reminder. The question was also raised as to the length of the tour, and I have left a message with Glen to find out that information. I will post it as soon as I hear back.

Just received this reply to the question of the length of time of the tour.

"The length of the tour should be less than an hour, but obviously we want to answer as many questions as we can. We will gather informally so it's not a problem for people to come and go as necessary."

I would be expecting a lot of questions from this group. Hope this helps.

One of these days I'll buy a second car...

Will anyone be leaving from the Golden area for the HDNet tour on Monday who wouldn't mind picking me up around I-70/Denver West Parkway?

Will anyone be heading to the Brighton area after the tour who wouldn't mind dropping me off at Highway 85/Bromley Lane?

If not, I can still make it, but it'll mean a lot of extra driving around to pick up my daughter from daycare (downtown) after the tour, then heading back to Golden to pick up my wife from work before heading home (Brighton).

Thanks.

I received these instructions from Glenn on how to get to the Colorado Studios/HDNet facility next week. You can get general driving directions from your home at:

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp

After that, follow the instructions below.

Glenn wrote:
***************


Colorado Studios / HDNet
2400 N. Syracuse St.
Denver, CO. 80207

Just a note of direction. Due to the Stapleton Redevelopment Project our entrance has changed. Although our address is N. Syracuse St, you will need to enter from
Montview Blvd.
Quick directions are to take Quebec St to Montview Blvd. Turn east on Montview.
The first stop light you reach on Montview will be Syracuse. Continue East on Montview approximately 1/4 mile. You will see a blue sign on the left (North) side of Montview. Turn left (North) into the drive and follow it to the main building. To reach the main building you will go approximately 1/4 mile on a desolate drive which will take you to a stop sign. Turn right (East), the only way you can go, and the main building will be right in front of you. There is plenty of parking which will be obvious as you drive up.
***********

For the 15 people that can receive KMGH: If you had your preference, would you rather see the 17-1 pictiure stretched (the way it is now), 4:3 with no sidebars (black), or 4:3 with gray sidebars (like KCNC does it)?

I personally would prefer no sidebars (black) broadcast in 4:3 because I can add the gray sidebars with my Dish 6000 if I want them. This is a request for opinions.

I'd just as soon they did it 4x3 with whatever color side bars. I'm sure the argument against it would be if you want 4x3 just go to 17-2. The only problem with that is the PQ on -2 isnt terribly good at all.

I like the way KCNC handles it (color of the bars aside) because the PQ on their channel is very very good even when it's a 4x3 source like the news, etc.

IF I could get 17 (which I can't), this would be my preference:

1) Broadcast the 4:3 picture as a 4:3 picture. Let the STB decide what to do with it (stretch it, colour in the sidebars, whatever)
2) Broadcast is as a 16:9 image with grey sidebars (like KCNC does)

I agree, the KCNC PQ is great in both 4x3 and HD.

BTW I still cannot get 17-2 on my 6000.

17-1 looks great in HD but I don't watch it otherwise.

Channel 17??? There is a channel 17?? In Denver???
:D

I agree with Dr. Mal. If I could get channel 17, broadcast the 4:3 version as that and let my stb decide what to do with it (stretch or leave it), or else just broadcast it as 16:9 with grey bars on the side. I probably prefer the second but am OK either way. I like the way KCNC does it, I don't have to mess with anything. Of course that is assuming I could ever pick up KMGH-DTV.

I dont get the notion "4x3 as 4x3". If they do that as opposed to sending it out in 16x9 with embedded bars you're presumably not having them upconvert it to 720p anymore then aren't you?

I'm assuming one of the things that makes KCNC looks so good is that their upconverter to 1080i for non HD programming is far better that any upconverter in our STB's. What if KCNC "turned off" their upconverter and sent out their existing signal as something less than 1080i (thus getting rid of the embedded bars as well) on 4x3 programming.. wouldnt the PQ logically go down? And on most STB's all signals put out on component output is turned into 720p or 1080i if the signal itself isnt "native" 720p or 1080i. But thats not much help.

In other words is there such of a thing where KMGH could upconvert the signal to 720p but yet keep it in true 4x3? I wouldnt think so since 720p is inherently a 16x9 format (whether it's true HD or some 4x3 programming with bars automatically embedded on the sides to make it 16x9) whether it's native or upconverted. Course maybe their equipment would let em do it.

Otherwise I'm afraid it would just come out as 17-2 does now which is true 4x3 but just 480i (though upconverted to 1080i by *my* STB as all outgoing 480i signals via component are) which is why it doesnt look all that great even though it's on the digital channel.

I need a little help. I was watching the ALCS on KDVR-32. When my 6000 is in analog mode, the picture seems to be fine. When I turn on the HD output, the colors seem to shadow. Especially evident during the Giants game with their orange on their hats and collars. This seems to only have started in the last week or so. KCNC and other true HD material is fine. Any suggestions?

I live 6 miles east of Parker. Is there any hope of getting a signal here from downtown? I can put up exterior antenna.

Also when is Colorado Springs supposed to go HD? Would it be full power and would I have a better chance of gettting that signal?

According to the indo site I am about 26 miles from downtown and 46 from Colorado Springs.

Thanks
George M

Originally posted by jcardona
I need a little help. I was watching the ALCS on KDVR-32. When my 6000 is in analog mode, the picture seems to be fine. When I turn on the HD output, the colors seem to shadow. Especially evident during the Giants game with their orange on their hats and collars. This seems to only have started in the last week or so. KCNC and other true HD material is fine. Any suggestions?

The only suggestion is for KDVR to get their act together because I see the same problem. Now I know why I've never bothered to tune to the channel much the last two years. I thought I'd give it another whirl this fall with a couple of their new shows and the baseball but every time I tune to the channel now, as Gump would say, it's like a box of chocolates..you never know what you're gonna get.

From being squished in on the sides, to stretched out weird, to the 480p widescreen shows being right, to them being wrong, to the baseball games looking ok, to them looking like they look now etc etc.

Originally posted by GeorgeM
I live 6 miles east of Parker. Is there any hope of getting a signal here from downtown? I can put up exterior antenna.

Also when is Colorado Springs supposed to go HD? Would it be full power and would I have a better chance of gettting that signal?

According to the indo site I am about 26 miles from downtown and 46 from Colorado Springs.

Thanks
George M

George,

If you look at the coverage map located here, (http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm) there is someone South and East of Parker that is picking up KRMA (Borderline), No KCNC, and Yes KDVR.

The critical factor I think is going to be the size and elevation of the antenna. There is someone as far North as Loveland that is able to pick up one or more of the Republic building stations.

It's probably worth a shot now, because it doesn't look like things will be changing soon. Might as well try it and find out.

-John

I tried to watch some of the baseball game on 32 last night and it was unwatchable. It was pixelating all over the place and the colors were awful. Like Dan, I find that sometimes the channel looks OK, and other times it's horrible. :confused:
Sad that it's the only digital channel I receive OTA.:mad:

I have 2 additional pm's for the HDNet tour on Monday which (I think) takes the count up to 14. I also have one 'maybe' pm. It looks like there will be room for a few more people if anyone out there has yet to log in and still wants to go.

GeorgeM,

I live in the Colorado Springs area and have sent e-mails to engineers of the network stations here. One of them replies with a single word, their current target date. Then when the date passes and I ask again, he replies with the next target date. His last reply was December. Two other stations have given more info. Both say they have not started work on their towers. One says they haven't gotten final approval to build from the FCC. The other says they haven't found a site yet. Both say it will be several months from the start of building to date of going on the air. My guess is maybe by next fall. I am glad I have a satellite dish.

Roy

Originally posted by JohnJr
George,
If you look at the coverage map located here, (http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm) there is someone South and East of Parker that is picking up KRMA (Borderline), No KCNC, and Yes KDVR.
That's me. I also get KBDI-DT ch38 in the 70's when they are are 'practicing' their signal. I'm at Singing Hills Road and CR13 and have a big-ass yagi in the third floor attic. I think moving it to the roof or trying different areas in the attic might get me KCNC and KRMA above my box's threshold.

I believe it is worth trying.

Success!

I went out and got the $20 40" UHF YAGI from RS and pointed it towards KMGH. After hours of pointing, electrical taping, wire bending, etc., I have a 50 signal on my DISH 6000. Hopefully, it will stick. I'll post my readings on the other thread for the website, but if you are wondering I am at Havana and Florida.

Reminder:
The long desired tour of the HDNet facilities and trucks is scheduled for this afternoon. The tour is at 4 PM. As a reminder, the directions as sent to the group by Glenn Moore are:

*********
Colorado Studios / HDNet
2400 N. Syracuse St.
Denver, CO. 80207

Just a note of direction. Due to the Stapleton Redevelopment Project our entrance has changed. Although our address is N. Syracuse St, you will need to enter from Montview Blvd. Quick directions are to take Quebec St to Montview Blvd. Turn east on Montview. The first stop light you reach on Montview will be Syracuse. Continue East on Montview approximately 1/4 mile. You will see a blue sign on the left (North) side of Montview. Turn left (North) into the drive and follow it to the main building. To reach the main building you will go approximately 1/4 mile on a desolate drive which will take you to a stop sign. Turn right (East), the only way you can go, and the main building will be right in front of you. There is plenty of parking which will be obvious as you drive up.
*********

See you there. Sorry folks, AFAIK, Mark Cuban will not be there to greet us, maybe next time.
:D

Just a note on the directions. Montview is three to five blocks North of Colfax, if that helps people pin it down. It'd be like 18th to 20th vs Colfax's 15th.

When you get in to the complex you will pass a large, long building on your right. That is not HDNet. When you reach the stop sign, you will see a smaller, stand-alone building, to your right. That is HDNet's main building.

If you come in from I-70 take the Quebec Street exit S. to Montview, and then follow the directions. From I-225, get off on Colfax going West, then when you hit Havana, turn North to Montview. West on Montview about 2 miles and just before Syracuse you will see the sign into the complex.

See ya'll there!

-John

EDIT: Oops, it looks like Montview may be closer to 3-5 blocks North of Colfax. Fixed my stuff above.

EDIT2: Double Oops! Thanks Dennis, fixed that too! Sheesh, should I really be giving directions at all? :(

John:
One MORE clarification.

Off I-225, you go WEST on Colfax to get there.

See you there!

Looking forward to seeing everyone there this afternoon!

So, just like last year when we toured KRMA and then KCNC reasonable close together, is there any interest to take a look at KMGH's facilities? I was talking to Rick Craddock this morning over there and brought up the idea. He seemed open to the idea of us walking around their facility, so if there's any interest I'll persue it.

Originally posted by markdl
....Is there any interest to take a look at KMGH's facilities? I was talking to Rick Craddock this morning over there and brought up the idea. He seemed open to the idea of us walking around their facility, so if there's any interest I'll persue it. Might be interesting especially for the [now] 15 of you who can actually verify they transmit digitally....any chance you can talk Mr. Craddock into moving their antenna :)

heck, if 10-20 of us showed up with pliers and screwdrivers, maybe we could get it done for them. ;)

Seriously, I would be interested if only to take the opportunity to bug them about it in person.

-John