Originally posted by Geof
Guide data comes from DirecTv and it hasn't yet been updated to include KUSA DT. At some point they will update their database and all will be well. Guide data for the DirecTV delivery of analog local channels comes from DirecTV. Guide data for the OTA delivery of channels comes over the air. I do not have the Advanced Program Guide ("APG") in my F38310 so I have two different guides; one for DirecTV and one for OTA. I can see complete program info for all the analog local channels on the DirecTV guide (even though I don't subscribe to locals from DirecTV). That includes KUSA. When I look at the OTA guide I see the analog OTA channels with no info (obviously) and the digital OTA channels with some PSIP information that is broadcast with it. And that includes KUSA, again. The table below shows what I see for OTA PSIP info (the last two columns are dynamic PSIP information and I guess that is harder to do and keep accurate):

............... analog ch ........ call ....... program .......... program
station ..... remap .......... letters ........ title ............ description
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KCNC ........... N ................. N .............. N ..................... N
KUSA ........... Y ................. Y .............. Y ..................... Y*
KRMA ........... N ................. N .............. N ..................... N
KDVR ........... N ................. Y .............. N ..................... N
KWHD .......... Y ................. Y .............. N ..................... N

* not accurate all of the time.

KUSA is the only station broadcasting the dynamic PSIP info. I assume that a Sat receiver with the APG would see three KUSA's in the guide; D* analog, OTA analog, OTA DTV. Can anyone with the APG confirm? Dan? Geof?

BTW, KRMA is off-air at the moment.

I only see 2 KUSA's, one digital and one analog.

I agree that guide data can be sent OTA in the form of PSIP data but I do not believe the Hughes DirecTv guides use that data. I am fairly confident it uses (APG) guide data sent from DirecTv. Why? Well, for one I have accurate guide data for KMGH and my receiver usually registers "0" or maybe "3" as a signal strength. Obviously with such a low signal strength I would stand little chance of receiving PSIP data, let alone a usable picture or sound.

I also recall that guide data did not exist for KCNC until DirecTv updated there database (you know the database is updated when the channel shows up in the local channel list without being manually entered).

Ah, Spring! The foliage is returning, the weather getting warmer, daylight is longer ... and I start losing signal on all my DTV stations.:(

Ron,

Warmer? You must have moved a lot farther south than Parker and Elizabeth. :)

Jeff

Flipping though channels last night, I noticed that KUSA didn't have the KUSA-DT logo in the gray bar again. Maybe they are testing now?

Interesting note from this morning's KCNC News at 6am (the TRUE Colorado leader). The traffic helicopter had a nice shot of Lookout Mountain this morning as they transitioned from commercial back to the news. On air talent: "And there's Lookout Mountain [the towers were, of course, plainly visible] where your television signals come from"

Hopefully they're starting a soft sell on the tower replacement. Or maybe I'm reading way too much into anything related to Lookout Mountain these days :D

Bump.
Wanted to keep us up, so that any new Denver AVSer's can find us.

Anybody checked on 16 lately? I haven't turned it on in a long while.

Jeff

No HD-joy on Frasier last night (the only NBC HD show on Tuesdays). But the KUSA-DT logo is back in the left side bar.

I had a very weak signal from KMGH-DT last night.

Originally posted by Hot
I had a very weak signal from KMGH-DT last night.

Must...resist...urge...for...smart-alecky...response...

:D

Originally posted by dr_mal
Must...resist...urge...for...smart-alecky...response...

:D Oh, but why? We haven't had a smart-alecky response here in days and it's kinda boring around here frankly.....

Do you suppose "Colorado's News Leader" also noted the low signal level from their competitor...whoops I mean partner....gee I guess they compete and are partners....(I won't go there)...anyway do you suppose the News leader noticed this news last evening??? After all it's not like their HD signal exactly overwhelms that toy transmitter from Colorado's first HDTV station <cough, cough>......

I'm looking at the calendar and see only "9" days until May 3. I would really like to see 2 minutes and 10 seconds of NBC High Def programming that day (I don't even need to hear the song "My old Kentucky Home").

Does 9 News care?


Don

I got a message from Don Rooney last night. KWGN has everything in place to start broadcasting now, except for the go-ahead from the FCC. The Jeffco courts threw out 10 of the 12 complaints that (s)CARE filed against them. The remaining 2 complaints are still in progress. He didn't elaborate what the complaints were, but I think we can take a pretty good guess at them... :rolleyes:

Don,

Does 9 News care?

They apparently got their tax break for hitting their deadline by end of last year on the "install", but are almost an additional 5 months and have yet to show "ANYTHING"!!!!!! in HD.

So, I would guess that they cared about their tax bill and nothing else. So, does this show that they are afraid of the IRS and only laugh at the FCC? Probably. Geof has called them arrogant several times in the past and jm has rightfully called them on the "Colo.'s Leader" position they have taken on.

I hope that eventually they will demonstrate something, hell, anything, that shows that they care and not "CARE" about this issue.

Are they funding SCARE?...................NAAHH! :)

Jeff

I just heard the new KMGH jingle marketing campaign... "Working for you"

Yo' Channel 7! It sure ain't 'working for me'!

Right On Ernie.....

I wonder why KMGH is marketing to their parking lot? Must be a wonderful parking lot - it has it's own HD signal and now a marketing jingle....it it paved with gold dust too?

I just talked to Don Perez at KUSA. He said that they have been trying to get their HD on the air for the past 3 days. They fixed a server problem today, and are going to try it tonight. He said that if they have to choose between The tonight show and ER, it'll be ER, because of less commercial interruptions. Or,... it might be neither if their recorder server blinks out again.

I will check it out after CSI.

Jeff

KUSA-DT is mapping to 16-01 instead of 9-01 on my 6000 tonight.

Maybe there is hope of a HD signal yet!

Mine has always been 16-1 on my DTC100, so I can't even check on that.

Jeff

On my Toshiba DST-3000 I am getting a slight signal on digial channel 16. Can't lock, but something is there...

I need an antenna on my roof...

ER in high def!

When KUSA threw the switch at 9:12, the audio was not so attenuated on 16-1 either.

Don

Well I tuned in at 9:10PM, no HD. Actually no picture either. So, I rescaned my DTC-100, then it picked up the signal, but no HD. I called the station. Surprisingly they put me through to engineering. I told the engineer,... they talked a little in the background, and bingo. HD. She said the tonight show should be in HD too.
Hmm, Not close to CBS or ABC quality for ER.

PQ looks good here; ER appears to be film based (HBO-HD) quality. DD5.1 is active as well.

Leno has the reputation for being outstanding 1080i quality via video cameras so it will be interesting to see if the PQ improves in an hour.

Can't compare it to ABC quality cuz I don't live in the KMGH parking lot.

Don

Well, it looks like we got 30 minutes of HD on ER and then it went off. No HD so far 20 minutes into Leno.

Lets see, $2000.00 for the HD ready TV and $600.00 for the HD receiver. I guess I got my moneys worth from KUSA tonight!! :(

I just scanned locals with my 6000 (11:00PM) and my old 9 mapped to 16 and channel 37 appears. I do not receive a picture on KUSA. After about 15 seconds, I get a message saying that my smart card is not authorized to view. When I select 37, the meter shows zero signal.

Ditto on the "smart card not authorized to view" on my 6000 when tuning to KUSA-DT.

Well, good news about KUSA (and hopefully those last 2 motions for KWGN go away soon). If my TV ever gets out of the shop, I'll be tuning in to see if Leno is in HD. Sounds like only a few days now. It also may be looking up for that 2+ minutes in early May.

Greg

Has anybody had any luck getting a picture on KUSA?

Yes, I can get a picture on KUSA on 9-1. No HD however, grey bars on the sides, like usual.

Seems like maybe it's just the Dish 6000 with issues tuning into KUSA. I cant see it either with that tuner at the moment. Working fine on my Mitsu tuner though.

Originally posted by DP1
Seems like maybe it's just the Dish 6000 with issues tuning into KUSA. I cant see it either with that tuner at the moment. Working fine on my Mitsu tuner though. Did our "News leader" piss off Charlie :rolleyes:

Just got home and checked the last two minutes of Leno.......no HD tonight. However no problems tuning in 16 with the Mitsu integrated tuner. Didn't try the E-86.

Well just to add to the KUSA signal availability topic. I have a 38510 and have got no signal from them in the last two days. Signal levels for 18, 32, and 35 are all normal. Not being in their parking lot...I have never been able to get 17 :(

Phil P

As of 5:00 p.m. Saturday, I had both channel 16 and audio from them as well. Signal level is 2 or 3 points off normal, but easily strong enough for a lock of their signal. They still need to send out some HD programming.

Jeff

I ran a channel search. It picked up hannel 9 analog, channel 9 Digital, and channel 16. Previoulsy I always tuned 16 but the info display showed 9-1. Now it says 16-1. Selecting 9 digital gives me 16-1 in info. The signal is down over 20 points from what it was. Since 16 went live it has been the strongest signal from Republic Plaza that I receive here. I was getting around 74 to 76. Now it is 52 to 54. This is enough for a good lock, but it sure seems like they changed something. I will check tonight for HD content.

PS As I am sure everyone that has checked knows, as of 9:45 last night...still no HD from KUSA-DT !! Allso as I had the 10 PM News on, about 10:10 I lost the sound on 16-1 :(

Phil P

I still cannot receive a signal from KUSA using my 6000. I scan the channels and locate 16-1. When I go to that channel I get a "smart card is not authorized to view" message. This is extremely frustrating. At least I know that I'm not missing any HD from them!!
Can anybody with a 6000 receive their signal?

Last night no signal from KMGH channel 17 and I have always received a signal in the past.

I'm receiving KUSA just fine on my 6000, although the channel is no longer mapped to 9-1. It's now showing up as 16-1. I have NOT done a rescan, so I'm wondering if rescanning is causing a problem.

And I was able to receive 17 last night at my normal signal strength level. Recorded Alias and Dragnet normally, although Alias wasn't in HD until about 5 minutes into the show.

My 6000 would map KUSA to 9-1 as well. When I read that they might be sending an HDTV signal, I checked and it remapped to 16-1. Since then I have been receiving the "smart card not authorized" message. I then rescanned and it still doesn't work. If markdll's is working, then maybe I need a new smart card. Although, all of the other digital channel's tune in fine.

Ehh, I have the same problem too on my 6000. I used to get that same message. Then I rescanned/rebooted, whatever... and now it just stays at a black screen when I tune to it with no message.

I'll wait til someoe else figures out whats wrong as I rarely ever use that box for OTA anywayz.

Dan, this is strange.

My 6000 switched from 09-01 to 16-01 without rescanning and I get 16-01 fine. (even the 30 minutes of HD they did last Thursday of ER).

But I was the guy who could never get 17-02 for months. It finally appeared without rescanning also.

I rescan occasionally but do not save the changes unless something is different.

The 6000 is wierd, or the engineers must be doing something non-standardly...about half the time when I tune to 17 on my 6000, 17-1 is not there, 17-2 is the SD 4:3 channel and 17-3 shows up as the HD channel. But then other times, 17-2 is the HD channel and 17-3 is the SD channel. And then the 3rd other times, it's 17-1 as HD and 17-2 as SD like normal.

And the PBS multicasting is killing me on my 6000 and hipix cards. I'm not sure what they are doing, but I'm not getting the remapping right in my receivers - I'm getting the national feed just fine, but when they switch over to the local multicast, the remap doesn't happen automatically anymore, and I can't tune to 18 unless I do a rescan of channels, which means that I then lose channel 80 until I do a rescan again. As I watch and record Rudy Maxa at 5:30, I just leave mine reset at channel 80 and don't bother scanning to get 18 anymore. This is all very strange...

Mark,

If I tune to 80-3 and they are transmitting 18-01 my receiver switches after a few seconds. Same the other way around. I have 80-3 set in a favorites list so when they are on 18-1 I don't see them in my guide.

I wish they would both appear in the guide like 17-01 & 17-02.

17-03 appeared for a few days but now is back to normal on my receiver.

Go figure!!!

Mine used to do that, Phil. Now it doesn't switch between 80 and 18...oh well...

Just got this message from Pete:

Friends,

Our application is continuing to progress with our next hearing being this Wednesday at 6:00 pm. We appreciate the letters several of you have written to the County in support of the application and hope some will be willing to testify at the hearing. For those on the fence, we will keep pushing the application forward and hope to earn your support. The hearing is at the Jeffco Gov’t Building, aka The Tah Mahal, 100 Jefferson County Parkway. As always, please write or call with any questions.

Sincerely,
Peter McNally

Just talked to Don Perez,
He said that they did some HD on Saturday night, and all of the HD shows last night in HD. I didn't tune in to verify. He said they will be doing HD tonight, not sure of how much. The problem they are having is, editing in the local commercials. They haven't implemented automation yet, so until it's implemented (no time lines yet) we probably won't see everything that is HD in HD. He said that the Tonight show will be hard because of the large amount of commercial breaks.


For some reason, I'm having a hard time getting KMGH these days. I live at Highlands Ranch Blvd and Broadway. I usually get 40-46% on my DTC-100 with an attic mounted $19 UHF only antennae. Must be the new foliage or something. I get the station at about 42%, but it just plips out every 5 minutes. Time to get out the 20 foot poll, and piss off the neighbors. lol. Of course I get 94% on KRMA, and KUSA.

Greg:

Thanks for the info on KUSA. I wrote a note to Don Perez saying I have checked Leno every night with no luck. He has not responded to me yet. Appreciate the heads up. My situation is that we have pretty much stopped watching KUSA and watch KCNC mostly now, with the exception of Leno. They lost us on ER and Westwing and all of the Law and Order shows in favor of anything else on in HD.

KRMA told me last week that they do not plan to multicast anytime soon and are doing the simulcast just to meet the FCC May timeframe for 50% simulcast. At least they listened when I said it would be stupid to simulcast SD in the evenings when real HD programming is available. Thank goodness.

On the DTC-100 in my RCA F38310, I get KMGH at 40-46 also. Last year, I had to put up a 10 foot pole on the very top of my roof and move all over the place to get the signal back after the leaves came out. I would bet that is your problem. Their transmission is so low that I am convinced I am picking up a bounce off something because my antenna is not even aimed downtown to max their signal. I also have not noticed that KMGH has been off the air lately. As far as pissing off neighbors, I am on our HOA board so it would be hard for me to piss me off. We do understand the need for antennas to get HD and just hope that this Lookout Mountain mess with CARE and Jeffco gets resolved so people can get signals with less offensive, or indoor, antennas.

From my neighborhood experience, I know there are a lot more people out there trying to enjoy HD that don't bother to complain or post issues as we few do.

Originally posted by markdl
And the PBS multicasting is killing me on my 6000 and hipix cards. I'm not sure what they are doing, but I'm not getting the remapping right in my receivers - I'm getting the national feed just fine, but when they switch over to the local multicast, ... Not to pick nits, just to keep others from getting confused .. KRMA is not multcasting, they are simulcasting. Multicasting being sending more than one sub-channel simultaneously. Simulcasting means showing the some show at the same time on the analog channel and their digital channel.

I have no problem on my RCA 38310 when they switch between local simulcasting to the national feed.

I am new to HDTV so sorry for these stupid questions
I have just bought a HDTV ready tv and want to try and receive some over the air HD channels. I live on Capital Hill in a 11 story apartment building which is surrounded by high rise apartment buildings. Will it be possible for me to receive any HD channels and what channels should I expect to get. Also do I have to subscribe to some sort of cable company to receive these channels or are they free. Currently I can only get digital cable from comcast and it seems it will be awhile before they start sending a HD single in the downtown Denver area. And finally which indoor antenna works best at a reasonable price? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Greg T

Just talked to Don Perez,
He said that they did some HD on Saturday night, and all of the HD shows last night in HD. I didn't tune in to verify.

This is interesting. I checked at least once per hour as I was flipping through the channels last night. More than once I checked twice per hour.I got the grey sidebars on all of the shows from 7 to 10. Sure looked like SD to me... and nothing changed when going into or out of commercials.
Either it was not HD or they are sending something that my set can't decode as HD.

Phil P

Phil,

I would think that the signal they are sending is messed up. Why else would we be having problems with our 6000's and you receiving a signal but it not being HD.
Once KUSA started broadcasting DTV, I feel like we've been getting the run around from Don Perez. He keeps claiming that they'll be broadcasting HD "soon." Now he's claiming they are broadcasting HDTV but nobody can receive it to verify. Soon they'll start blaming our equipment and keep saying that they are broadcasting HD.
Their new slogan "Colorado's Digital News Leader."

Originally posted by BBYRNE
I am new to HDTV so sorry for these stupid questions ... Any help would be greatly appreciated. First, go to the Denver DTV Info Website (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm). That should bring you a little more up to speed. You said your TV is HD-ready, which probably means it does not have a DTV tuner built-in. That means you need to buy a set-top-box ("STB"). Go see some and ask questions at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc to choose one ($400 - $700). There's lots of choices/opinions on antennas, as a search of "Local HDTV Info and Reception" will indicate. You may opt for a UHF only if you're only after the digital stations. You should have a good shot at getting all of the major stations being downtown, even if you begin by trying a Radio Shack indoor bowtie antenna on top of your set.

Once you've digested the website and have picked out a STB and antenna, come back and ask some more questions. Glad to help:)

Good Luck!

He said that they did some HD on Saturday night, and all of the HD shows last night in HD.

American Dreams and both Law and Order shows last night were SD on 16-1. Apparently it was HD internally and they forgot to throw the final switch to send it to the transmitter.

I thought that they had given up on their glitchy video server for now.

Don

I have no problem on my RCA 38310 when they switch between local simulcasting to the national feed.

I also have the 38310 and have found an interesting quirk with channel 18. If you do a channel search in the evening when they are passing the PBS HD feed, the DTC100 inside the 38310 re-maps the channel (18-3) to 80-3. When KRMA switches back to simulcasting in the morning, it broadcasts on channel 18-1 and the 38310 does not display 18-1. Channel 80-3 comes in at good signal strength of 88, but displays weak signal and a blank screen. A channel search during simulcasting SD re-maps the channel to 18 and allows display of the simulcast broadcast on channel 18-1. You can then watch HD in the evening on channel 18-3. The first time this happened, I thought KRMA was off the air, but all they were doing is simulcasting.

My lesson here was do not do a channel search in the evening to avoid the KRMA re-mapping problem (keep KRMA mapped to channel 18).

Don

FWIW, if anyone else wants to try, KUSA is trying to broadcast Crossing Jordon in HD. Any comments?

Currently watching Charlie's Angels in HD on ABC, KMGH, Channel 7-1 on our Hughes E86 receiver and Direct TV. Signal strength is a constant at 55. Audio is not quite right, not true DD5.1, but video is excellent in HD. Using OTH indoor non amplified antenna. Located at Garrision and Alameda in Lakewood.

April 28, 2003. Currently receiving Crossing Jordon in HD on KUSA, NBC, Channel 9.1 with our Hughes E86 HD Tuner via Direct TV. Using OTH non amplified antenna. Receiving constant signal strength between 86 and 93. A long time coming for KUSA. Maybe this is a good sign of things to come from KUSA.

Loated at Alameda and Garrision in Lakewood.

Also receiving Crossing Jordan in HD tonight. I have good audio also ( in prologic ), but in sync. Don Perez says that they hope to have Leno in HD sometime in the next day or so.

Jeff

Leno is in HD tonight as well.

OK, KUSA is looking good tonight. Very seemless HD switches in and out of commercial. I compared Crossing Jordan HD picture quality with CSI: Miami. I give a slight nod to CSI: Miami which has been claimed to be reference quality HD.

Leno HD PQ is absolutely outstanding. No lip sync issues or any other audio problems. Only one commercial glitch so far, but KUSA quickly resolved it and we did not lose any Leno HD.

I have 16-1 signal strength 94 here in Thornton.

Finally I can say it: thank you KUSA 9-News.

Don

Good Job KUSA! Leno looked great!

Agreed - way to go KUSA! Crossing Jordan and Leno last night both looked great! Aside from the occasional commercial glitch, I saw no video or audio glitches at all in either show! Yay!!!

Ron - you're right about the multicasting vs. simulcasting. My mistake. :)

I watched Leno last night on my 6000, and had no problems at all tuning into 16-1. Did other 6000 users experience the same, or were you still getting the "You are not authorized to view this channel"?

Edit: Huh, what do you know...my 700th post praising KUSA!!! Didn't that'd happen. :D

Originally posted by BBYRNE
I am new to HDTV so sorry for these stupid questions
I have just bought a HDTV ready tv and want to try and receive some over the air HD channels. I live on Capital Hill in a 11 story apartment building which is surrounded by high rise apartment buildings. Will it be possible for me to receive any HD channels and what channels should I expect to get. Also do I have to subscribe to some sort of cable company to receive these channels or are they free. Currently I can only get digital cable from comcast and it seems it will be awhile before they start sending a HD single in the downtown Denver area. And finally which indoor antenna works best at a reasonable price? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BByrne,

It should be possible for you to get at least some of the channels over the air, but you will need a HD receiver box first. If and when you get one, let me know. I've got a spare double bow tie antenna from Radio Shack that you are welcome to try out.

Originally posted by jcardona

Can anybody with a 6000 receive their signal?

FWIW, while I get the "Smart card not authorized" message when I tune my 6000 to KUSA-DT, if I am patient for 15 to 30 seconds, I finally get picture and sound. The picture I got was SD; I don't know if they were sending out HD when I tried this.

There were some odd readings on the signal strength. About half the time the meter showed :0, otherwise it showed 97-98%, which is not believable since I am almost 50 miles away.

We enjoyed watching Leno last night. As predicted, the PQ was very very good with live HD cameras. The best comment that I want to make is that there have been no audio sync issues with KUSA. Every other channel has had problems at one time or another (Fox is still slightly off) and I have not seen any audio problems with KUSA channel 16. FINALLY, way to go KUSA!!

I'm still getting that message on 16-1. When I first tune to it the signal strength fluctuates a few points (as it does on any channel really) and then just before the banner showing ss goes away you can see it kind of "locks up" (freezing on a certain % for a couple seconds). Shortly thereafter the "no authorization" message pops up and then a couple seconds later it tunes itself down to the next channel.

EDIT: Ok, heres something to check. Above, when I said that it tunes itself down to the next channel, the next channel in line in my case was analog 9 (9-00). I just went ahead and deleted that particular channel from the list. After doing that suddenly 16-1 locks on and works just fine.

Then I went ahead and added 9-00 back in just to see if I could replicate the problem and now even with 9-00 back in the mix (not that one really needs analog 9 available anyway if they get the digital version) 16-1 is still working just fine. So who knows.

I got home at 11:30 last nite, thought I'd try to see if kusa had actually gotten the hd up and low and behold there was mr. margarittaville himself singing with about a 20 piece band on leno in glorious hd - oooh the colors!! So I hope all of us who have (rightfully) bitched to and about kusa drop them a note commending them on their efforts - we can probably leave out the 'finally' part ;-).

O.k., gang, imho time to really jump down hard on kmgh - they now have the distinction of being the only one of the major networks not to have an hd signal available to a significant portion of the denver metro area (of course faux has their bulls**t edtv, but oh well). For my part, over the next several weeks I plan to write letters about kmgh's misdeads to: abc corporate in ny, the fcc, the local tv critics for the denver post and rocky mtn news, our other, more 'hd responsible' locals, and of course kmgh themselves, copying them on all the other letters as well. I also think we should form some sort of 'group' around this with a spokesperson that could speak to the media (including kmgh) should the need arise. Myself, I intend to try to insure that at the very least as much heat as possible is put on kmgh from corporate and other media outlets (and the fcc?) highlighting their deceptions, their lack of consideration for the viewer, their soiling of the abc nameplate, and exposing them for the embarrasment to the broadcast community that they are. My dad worked for abc throughout his career, from the early days in the late 40's, including working closely with Roone Arledge for many years, and he is dismayed at what our local abc affiliate is doing - he lives on the west coast, where of course they don't have a loser like kmgh for the abc affiliate.

Sorry about the ranting, and my lack of vociferous efforts thusfar - I just recently got an hd setup (about 2 months ago), and have had lots of problems with my tv - no excuse, but I'll try to step up to the plate better now. I know many of you guys have been plugging away at this stuff for literally years now, so much thanks for all your work.

At least KDVR (local Faux) passes on the best quality they get from corporate to the entire market. I don't hold the local affiliate responsible for corporate's decision. Now back when they were cropping to fit 14:9 -- THAT was crap.

Guess it's time to fine tune my antenna again so I can get DTV 16. Looks like I got that HiDTV recorder card just in time :)

Well Set, good luck with your KMGH protests(s). A bunch of us have already written them and the FCC and nothing was done and nothing will be done. Money rules. Not viewers. Their attorney will tell you what he told us - approval is right around the corner (this Spring in fact) so they can soon begin construction on their new Lookout facilities and be ready to broadcast full power HDTV "shortly".

Well KUSA I'm sure you guys will get a chuckle out of this - since Spring has sprung I am getting a whopping 6-9 signal strength (on DT 16) and have no shot at watching any NBC HD. Good to hear others are having luck though.

I have a 50-50 shot at getting a usable KRMA signal and (up till now at least) a 100% chance at KCNC.

Geof:

I'm surprised you can't get KUSA since KCNC and they are broadcasting from the same place. I get KUSA with a stronger signal than any other station, even Faux. Is your antenna on your roof? Seems like Littleton should have a chance unless you've got obstructions in the way.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
Geof:

I'm surprised you can't get KUSA since KCNC and they are broadcasting from the same place. I get KUSA with a stronger signal than any other station, even Faux. Is your antenna on your roof? Seems like Littleton should have a chance unless you've got obstructions in the way. I live behind a hogback and have that between me and downtown. So yes, there is this one "little" obstruction in the way :)

I think I am getting some skip and/or diffraction - 16 is very low, 18 is better but still low, and 35 is far more stable (less prone to day to day variations). In this case I think the higher frequencies are working to my favor.

Got a call from the Rocky and they are going to send a photog out tomorrow to do a story on DTV. I just finished the phone interview with Steve Caulk. Not sure when it will get printed. I'll keep you all posted!

Adent, nice summary of stations on the 1st page.

Anybody in Aurora, SE Denver, specifically the developments just south of the Breakers (Missippi & Havana) able to get all the broadcasts (Lookout Mtn. as well as downtown) with just rabbit ears? My HOA doesn't allow rooftop antennas, and it would take some time and install work to run lines through the walls for an attic antenna. I'm shopping for an HDTV this week, so won't be able to read through all 145 pages of posts - sorry if this has already been covered - wish there was a way to search within a thread and only display posts matching.

HDTimeShifter

Make sure you see the Denver DTV Info Website (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm) for general info.
Regarding HOA bans against antennas, see FCC Web Page (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html) (they can't stop you!)
Regarding station reception in your area, see Denver DTV Reception maps (http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm) for a general idea of what others in your area are able to pull in.
Also check out this other thread Denver Coverage Map - Data Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587) for what antenna type and eqpt people are using.

Try a Radio Shack double bowtie on top of your set first. You need a UHF antenna for the digital stations, rabbit ears are for VHF.

Theres at least one guy not terribly far from you HDTS that gets most everything but you'd have to ask him what his antenna setup is. Or maybe he listed it in that Coverage Map thread. His handle is BrianBHD I believe. He doesnt post a whole bunch but maybe you could drop him a private message if need be.

Well I too got Crossing Jordan in HD.... FINALLY KUSA has some HD. I did have a couple of 30 second or less audio drop outs. Also some tearing of the image. At the half hour I adjusted the antenna. went from 42 to 58 on the DTC 100. No further problems. Did not think Leno would be HD because of comments here about manual commercial handling...so went to bed. Will check that tonight. Thanks for letting me know.

BTW I ran an elevation profile with Topo USA. It shows that I should have line of sight, though just barely, at 42 feet above ground level from here to the KMGH-DT transmitter ( I am close to Hampden and Sheridan). I am on a 20 foot mast mounted on the roof peak of a two story house (about 45 feet above ground), using an RS VU 190 but I now can't get a whisper from them. I have one of those RS VU 210 antennas in the garage with a 30 foot push-up pole. This is motivation to throw the new stuff up there to see what happens.

It also will undoubtedly help in getting the Springs stations as they come online in HD ...

Wish me luck :)

Phil P

Ernie -- that's great news! We desperately need some mainstream coverage. Hopefully they interview Deb first so you can intelligently and politely rebut her misstatements. (It would be a pity if they interviewed her after and didn't question her about her untruths)

HDTimeshifter -- there is a way (although not easy) to search this thread (hope you have broadband) -- click on the "Show Printable Version" link at the bottom of this page, and when that page comes up, click on the "Show all 4328 posts from this thread on one page" link. Then you can use your browser's search functionality to find what you're looking for.

woo hoo! 300th post!

DP1,
Thanks for the tip on tuning in KUSA on the 6000. Unfortunately, I'm at work right now and can't try it.

Looking forward to seeing the Tonight Show tonight. For what it's worth, Roger Ogden gave me the absolute straight answer when he was asked about the time frame for 1st HD and the first Tonight Show. No BS and all the way correct and complete.

Thanks KUSA!

Jeff

Originally posted by jcardona
DP1,
Thanks for the tip on tuning in KUSA on the 6000. Unfortunately, I'm at work right now and can't try it.

I second that, Dan. I didn't realize the 6000 was switching to 9-00 analog after the smart card message. Your description and results are exactly what I just experienced. Delete 9-00 from local channels and 16-1 comes in as expected. Add 9-00 back in to local channels, and 16-1 still works fine. I'm still curious about the 98-99% signal strength reading, though.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Adent, nice summary of stations on the 1st page.

Anybody in Aurora, SE Denver, specifically the developments just south of the Breakers (Missippi & Havana) able to get all the broadcasts (Lookout Mtn. as well as downtown) with just rabbit ears? My HOA doesn't allow rooftop antennas, and it would take some time and install work to run lines through the walls for an attic antenna. I'm shopping for an HDTV this week, so won't be able to read through all 145 pages of posts - sorry if this has already been covered - wish there was a way to search within a thread and only display posts matching.

HDTimeShifter,

I live in the Quincy and E-470 area and I am able to get all of the current HD signals from Republic and Lookout with only a cheap indoor amplified antenna made by Magnavox (probably more then 5 years old, not available anymore). I don't get Fox as well as I would like, usually hovers around 40% to 50% on my Dish 6000 receiver. I get quite a few breakups on that channel. Otherwise all of the Republic channels come in great. I can't get anything out of KMGH (big surprise).

Good luck!

Steve

HDTimeShifter: Thanx for the thanx.

----

Santellavision: On your web site you have: "Full-power will begin when the new Mt Morrison tower is completed" for KRMA. I thought the current plan was to move the 1KW transmitter from Republic and sometime later upgrade it to full power after COS and such get on the air - NET (No Earlier Than) 2004 for full power.

This is the reference: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2037268#post2037268 .

----

Can I get confimration that Fox has stopped the 14:9 broadcasts (when broadcasting upgraded NTSC material)?

Thanks Adent for the info on KRMA. I'll get it updated.

ADent - I haven't seen a 14:9 crob job on KDVR in a long time. They are sending their signal out at 704x480p when upconverting.

For those of us still fully supporting LCG, don't forget that the 2nd Jeffco planning commission hearing is tonight at 6 at the Taj. I'm planning on being there. Is anyone else going? I'll try to take some notes and post a summary tomorrow sometime.

Thanks, Mark(dl)...

I sent a letter but won't be able to make the meeting. Let us know what happens!

On another topic, did anyone have a lower signal strength than normal on KDVR-DT last night? I was getting breakups during "24" and a signal strength only in the high 50's on my Echostar 6000. Then, shortly after the newscast started, it jumped back up to the high 60's/low 70's, which is fairly normal, but I often get strengths in high 70s.

Maybe it was the weather. If it was, it seems like KRMA will be a real challenge from Mt. Morrison until they get their power ramped up.

Mark

Isnt 32 still doing something like 14:9 on their locally originated fare though like daytime programming? I'm looking at it right now and it's definitely wider than 4:3 (with sort of a zoomed look) but it's not 16:9 either.

Or am I "seeing things"?

Faux 32 has looked like 14:9 to me for some time. Their picture always appears washed out and they almost always have some lip sync problems, at least to me. So, I don't watch their EDTV channel.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
Faux 32 has looked like 14:9 to me for some time. Their picture always appears washed out and they almost always have some lip sync problems, at least to me. So, I don't watch their EDTV channel. Same here.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Adent, nice summary of stations on the 1st page.

Anybody in Aurora, SE Denver, specifically the developments just south of the Breakers (Missippi & Havana) able to get all the broadcasts (Lookout Mtn. as well as downtown) with just rabbit ears? My HOA doesn't allow rooftop antennas, and it would take some time and install work to run lines through the walls for an attic antenna. I'm shopping for an HDTV this week, so won't be able to read through all 145 pages of posts - sorry if this has already been covered - wish there was a way to search within a thread and only display posts matching.

It probably depends on where your TV is located. My HD setup is in the basement and I live just northwest of Hampden/Havana. With a Radio Shack DBT antenna I could only halfway lock onto the Fox signal (nothing else). In an upstairs room, you might have a better shot. If you'd like to try the Double Bow Tie let me know. It's just sitting in my garage and I already did the described mod to it.

I have a buddy that lives out near E-470 and Quincy. He doesn't have HDTV, but if he did I'm sure he could pick up close to everything as you can see the downtown lights from his bedroom window. Is the elevation higher out there?

Good luck with the efforts.

--Dave

Well I dont really care what 32 does..particularly aside from Primetime. Although on the couple PT shows I do watch and some of the Nascar stuff on the weekend at least they do get the Network widescreen stuff out in correct aspect ratio.

Originally posted by zeedave
It probably depends on where your TV is located. My HD setup is in the basement and I live just northwest of Hampden/Havana. With a Radio Shack DBT antenna I could only halfway lock onto the Fox signal (nothing else). In an upstairs room, you might have a better shot. If you'd like to try the Double Bow Tie let me know. It's just sitting in my garage and I already did the described mod to it.

I have a buddy that lives out near E-470 and Quincy. He doesn't have HDTV, but if he did I'm sure he could pick up close to everything as you can see the downtown lights from his bedroom window. Is the elevation higher out there?


The land just to the west is lower, so before they completed the development across the street, I used to be able to see the mountains for a year. Now there's similar height houses blocking my view. I don't recall ever being able to see downtown towers from here - I think there were existing condos to the northwest blocking my view.

Is the RS DBT an indoor set-top antenna?

I'm in a quandry about buying SBTs and recording devices. I could go for one of the OTA SBTs with Firewire and the JVC DVCR (together about $1000), or wait for the future Tivo PVR w/ OTA & satellite tuner (~ $1000) or future Zenith PVR. The Tivo looks the most promising, but waiting for that would mean watching cable input upconverted NTSC for a while. Thanks for the offer on the bow tie, though. If I get sick of viewing NTSC on my pricy HD monitor and run out to buy an HD tuner, I'll take you up on it.

I called KMGH today and was told their digital signal is the same as always. Maybe trees are higher now or that new building on Cherry Creek Drive South and Cherry Street in Glendale may be blocking my signal.

I have always been able to get channel 17 until recently. I was watching Monday Night Football in HDTV on KMGH-DT in 1999.

KMGH told me it would cost $400,000 to move their transmitter to Republic Plaza and they want to use that money on the Lake Cedar tower when Jefferson County approves it. So if we want a better signal on KMGH-DT we need Jefferson County residents to support Lake Cedar Group tonight.

Originally posted by Hot
I called KMGH today and was told their digital signal is the same as always. Maybe trees are higher now or that new building on Cherry Creek Drive South and Cherry Street in Glendale may be blocking my signal.

I have always been able to get channel 17 until recently. I was watching Monday Night Football in HDTV on KMGH-DT in 1999.

KMGH told me it would cost $400,000 to move their transmitter to Republic Plaza and they want to use that money on the Lake Cedar tower when Jefferson County approves it. So if we want a better signal on KMGH-DT we need Jefferson County residents to support Lake Cedar Group tonight.


I'm having the same issue, I think it has to do with the amount of humidity in the air as well as the leaf growth. Last night, I couldn't get a lock until NYPD Blue came on, then the signal was much better. Usually in the morning when we have no clouds, I can't get a solid signal either. I'm not sure what's worse, not getting a signal at all, or getting a signal sometimes. Or have the picture and sound go bonkers in the middle of a captivating scene.

KMGH has an HD signal? Well I'll be da@@ed! Does anyone else in Denver know about this? Should they be told?
:mad:

Originally posted by Hot

KMGH told me it would cost $400,000 to move their transmitter to Republic Plaza and they want to use that money on the Lake Cedar tower when Jefferson County approves it. So if we want a better signal on KMGH-DT we need Jefferson County residents to support Lake Cedar Group tonight.

That $400K figure is a royal crock, and if they think Jeffco is going to approve the LCG application any time soon they are using an 'illegal substance' in the coffee in the board room. If KMGH calls again, tell them to go to 'H' 'E' 'double Hockey sticks'! (Hockey sticks are those things people in Denver could see in HD next month if KMGH gave a sh*t!)

Yeah it's funny the different role weather and foliage plays. I already know that in a couple weeks I'll be able to lock on and view 17 24/7 because it's happened that way the last couple years when the leaves fully come out. Wthout that it's pretty much an after dark only type deal (and not every single night at that) all through the winter. "Normally" of course the foliage would be deemed to be a bad thing.

Course those of you that cant even sniff 17 come Hockey sticks or high water probably wouldnt necessarily mind that problem. Neither do I for that matter since I have other ways to see the programming anyway.

I attended the LCG Hearing last night, so I thought I would post a few thoughts. I did not take very specific notes, just a one or two word summary of each speakers main points...(paraphrased for my convenience)

In short, many citizens commented on health, interference, RF violations, alternate sites, etc...

Seven people spoke in support of LCG, and thirty against.

Interestingly, the City of Golden adopted a resolution urging Jeffco to deny the application until the long term effects of low-level exposure to RF is known.

They got though all public testimony, and both LCG rebuttal and Staff comments.

The Planning Commission has many questions, and the case was continued until May 7th and 14th for questions from the Planning Commission.

I have no idea which way they are leaning....

none at all.....

-Wabisabi

Wabisabi
Thanks for the update from the meeting, we all very much appreciate and respect your comments.

Originally posted by wabisabi

Seven people spoke in support of LCG, and thirty against.

-Wabisabi

Perhaps the turnout of supporters could have been higher had KMGH and other 'leading' stations not been so insulting to their supporters over the past year or two????

Originally posted by wabisabi
...(paraphrased for my convenience)

In short, many citizens commented on health, interference, RF violations, alternate sites, etc...

Interestingly, the City of Golden adopted a resolution urging Jeffco to deny the application until the long term effects of low-level exposure to RF is known.

They got though all public testimony, and both LCG rebuttal and Staff comments.
-Wabisabi

I see we are still arguing about the subject of RF levels even though the new tower would reduce those levels. Interesting!

And so we now see that Deb Carney and the (S)CARE folks have infiltrated the Golden city council (:confused:) too. Maybe the lawyers at KMGH would take a few minutes to send us (and of course the FCC) another letter telling us how approval is expected this spring. I am sure all the folks who don't have access to alternative sources for ABC will be glad to be reassured that things are going smoothly and they will be on the air from Lookout in plenty of time for the people of Denver to watch the Stanley Cup Finals in HD. (I'll bet KMGH execs are sure happy the Avs dropped out in the first round so they didn't make the finals.)
:mad:

I was there, and took 20 pages of notes, so it'll take me a little while to type up the report, but here is a summary of what I heard and saw.

I ended up sitting with Rick Craddock, Cindy Valesquez (sp?), David Layne, Don Perez and Skip Erickson. Just kind of worked out that way...Rick and I talked most of the time during the presentations, and of course I mentioned to him that we all really do want them to spend the money to move to Republic...his response was on the order of a chagrined "yeah, I know..."

All public testimony was heard. There were either 36 or 37 speakers, including me. Of that number, 7 supported the application and 29 or 30 opposed. Lots of emotional testimony, lots of obfuscatory testimony, lots of waving the arms "the world is ending if the tower gets approved" testimony. I made some people very angry and upset with my comments.

After the public testimony, Fred Neehouse and Marv Rockford gave their closing comments, Staff gave their closing comments, and then the Commission started asking questions.

Hearing continued to Wednesday May 7, starting around 7:00pm, as they are hearing another case beforehand at 6. Then it will continue to Wednesday May 14, also starting around 7, and it will be necessary as 2 of the Commissioners won't be there on the 7th.

Here were my comments from my notes:

The Lake Cedar Group isn't forcing anyone to live on the mountain or forcing anyone to subject themselves to the radiation. They are choosing to live there, and if the radiation is so harmful, and causes so much cancer and suffering, why are they still there? **This is what pissed everyone off so much**

It would seem to me that if in fact the radiation levels are so dangerously high, then lowering the levels with the new tower would be good thing for the residents.

There has been a lot of opinions given tonight. Lots of "What ifs" and "I think". Opinions don't make facts though. Just because many people say the same things doesn't necessarily mean that those things they say are true.

Squaw Mountain was brought up tonight as a viable alternate site. Please consider that I live a block east of Sheridan on 2nd Ave, and when KBDI was testing their digital channel last summer from Squaw, I could receive no signal at all with my rooftop antenna pointed at Squaw. And if I can't receive the signal from there, and I live on the east edge of Jeffco, how will the residents of Jeffco be able to receive the signal?

The impression that I got is that the commission is going to vote to recommend denial of the application. Most of them still think that Squaw and Morrison are vaible sites. One of them has never been able to receive any signals from Lookout due to where he lives, so there's no way he'll vote to recommend approval. And the others still have lots of questions. The negative public testimony did a good job of confusing the issue. The commissioners were definitely confused about some of it - they came out and said that with all of the conflicting testimony, they didn't know who or what to believe. Hence the additional hearings.

I'll try to get a detailed synopsis up the weekend of all of the testimony and what's coming next. That's going to take a while to type up, and will be pretty long. But I'll do it anyways.

Mark
Thanks for taking the time to post the report. It sounds like your comments were right on target. Great Job! I tend to agree with your comments about the likelihood of denial of the application, although your observations are far more valuable since you were at the meeting. I just don't see the commissioners stepping up to the bar with an approval when they lose nothing by delaying some more, and if they can delay long enough, they may even serve out their terms and leave the problem for the next group in the hot seat.

PS
On the plus side, Colorado Springs and Cheyenne stations should be coming on soon. The increased sales of antennas and cables at Radio Shack etc., the increased sales of Canadian Tuners and antennas, along with the increased work for the installers of all of this gear should help improve the stagnant economy. Plus there will likely be some added work for lawyers as the HOA's and the owners sue each other for the right to put up or force a take down of the antennas sprouting up on rooftops all around the front range. See, if you just take a look, there is always a silver lining in the middle of this stupidity.

Thanks for the reports guys. Looks like it's going to be tough going but I don't think that surprises anyone except KMGH who evidently still expects approval this Spring even though it will be mid-May before it gets out of the Planning Commission. Guess that means it will sail thru the BCC in 5 weeks to meet that Spring deadline.

With 7 speaking "For" and 30 "Against" the LCG is facing a huge uphill battle. Too bad the attitude of KMGH has weakened LCG2 support but I have not changed my mind and will not support them. While I hope it all works out I will live with the consequences if it does not.

Oh, and Mark, right on comment-wise. Too bad they're all pissed off but the point is your comment hits the mark and is so true (and obvious to us at least). It needed to be said and it needs to be said again and again. Thankfully you have the fortitude to say it.

KMGH EXPOSED!!!!!

I was driving by the KMGH - ABC facility on Speer the other day, when I happened to notice the antenna cluster on their roof. Since I was at a stoplight, I had a chance to take a very close look and was not at all surprised to find out what I had suspected all along.

In this first photo, you can see their building with one of the antennas highlighted.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/pic/ABC.jpg



I then used my handy telephoto lens to get a closer look, and this is what I found:




http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/pic/xmtr.jpg

Yes, I was as shocked as you are! I mean, everyone but everyone knows that in order to maximize the broadcast capability of a coat hanger antenna, you must extend the bottom part of the antenna by pulling it up into an ellipse! My god, what were they thinking!?!?!?

Maybe someone could email one of their engineers and ask them to bend the antenna the way it is supposed to be. I think that alone would solve everyones reception problems and would be much much cheaper than moving to RP. ;)

:D
ROFLMAO
:D
ROFLMAO
:D
ROFLMAO
:D

*picking up self off the floor from laughing so hard*

That's great! :D

ROTFL!!!

Jetlag,
That is absolutely the funniest thing I've seen in awhile.

Great "detective" work....:D

:applause:

Great stuff Jetlag. :D

ROTFLOL!! You made my otherwise not-so-great day totally better!

Why don't you email your post to the various people at KMGH?? Once they are turned down on Lookout, the humor may have an effect.

Good job!!

Now that I look at it more closely, are you sure that isn't a 'plastic' hanger.......er, I mean antenna.......???????

Still ROFLMAO
:D

Why don't you email your post to the various people at KMGH?? Once they are turned down on Lookout, the humor may have an effect.I'm sure this has been laughed at and passed around already!

Except, the Mgmt is laughing for a different reason, the longer they wait, the more money the station makes... and the more that translates into cash-ola at 'Bonus Time'!

Originally posted by santellavision
I'm sure this has been laughed at and passed around already!

Except, the Mgmt is laughing for a different reason, the longer they wait, the more money the station makes... and the more that translates into cash-ola at 'Bonus Time'!

It's OK if we laugh at them Ernie, I am quite sure they laugh at us and our investment in HD equipment every day all the way to the bank while 'broadcasting' (in the loose definition of that term) with that toy transmitter they purchased, and that hysterical legal note they sent the FCC and those of us that wrote letters.

Yes, I was as shocked as you are!


LMAO:D

a side note: The Tonight Show look very good last night.
-Pete

Finally KUSA is up in HDTV! I caught the Tonight Show the other night with Rebecca Romajin-Stamos, and Celine Dion. Very detailed. I am going to watch ER tonight and see how it looks. Great job, Don and KUSA.

Now if we can just get KMGH on the stick (wishful thinking)! Like all of the others on the thread, I am just plain tired of their attitude toward HDTV (lack thereof). The other stations have gotten us decent stop gap solutions, now they need to step up with a better solution. It is dissapointing because ABC does have some decent programming in HD that we are missing.

- Dustin

It seems the only "Prime Time" show broadcasted in HD by KUSA this week has been Crossing Jordon. The Tonight Show with Jay Leno has been broadcasted in HD during the last few nights.

Viewed Law and Order last night and currently watching ER, but guess what, no HD. Anyone else experiencing the same? I am on Direct TV using an OTH indoor antenna.

The Kentuck Derby is scheduled to be broadcast in HDTV this weekend. Hopefully KUSA will broadcast this annual event in HD

The Derby in HD is a treat, I saw it last year. It will require the gear to pass on a live event telecast, instead of a 'tape' delay. Maybe KUSA will have a weekend crew ready to fix any last minute bugs (HINT HINT to KUSA) that pop up in the equipment. It would be a shame if the gear didn't transition over from SD upconverts right and people in Denver miss the show. This might be a good chance to see if KUSA is willing to pass the honor of Denver's HD "Leader" to KCNC without a fight.

Well, KUSA started out the week great with high definition, but as rmaestas said, prime time HD after Monday hasn't happened.

Monday, KUSA hit 2 for 2 with Crossing Jordan and the Tonight Show.

Tuesday, Frazier was in high def for about 5 minutes, 4 of those with the vertical KUSA logo still in place. Then the screen went dark during commercial. Channel 16-1 then immediately switched to the SD upconvert for the rest of the show. The Tonight Show on Tuesday was superb with Rebecca.

Wednesday, Law & Order was standard def. At about 10:20 pm on Wednesday, channel 16-1 went dark except for the vertical KUSA-DT logo and the Tonight Show was not shown in high def.

Thursday (tonight), ER was standard def. We shall see about the Tonight Show tonight, although we are running half hour late which was worth it to honor our troops who have served this country well.

It is KUSA's 1st week and I wish I had a buzzer or something to wake up the engineering staff when a high def show is about to start; so I'll cut them some slack. It usually takes a couple of weeks to achieve HD switching perfection like KCNC.

I just hope I get that 2 minutes and 10 seconds of high def on Saturday just after post time.

Jetlag, I wonder if Cindy would hire you as an investigative reporter for KMGH. :D Your undercover work was awesome.

Don

No ER in HD tonight nor the Tonite Show. Bummer. All SD broadcasts. Someone needs to wake up engineering on this one. Perhaps the Presidential speech threw off the timeshifting?

- Dustin

Originally posted by markdl
The Lake Cedar Group isn't forcing anyone to live on the mountain or forcing anyone to subject themselves to the radiation. They are choosing to live there, and if the radiation is so harmful, and causes so much cancer and suffering, why are they still there?

This is like all those people who choose to buy in new developments by DIA, then complaining about airport noise. The sites were there before the people moved in - they knew what to expect.

Originally posted by JMartinko
Plus there will likely be some added work for lawyers as the HOA's and the owners sue each other for the right to put up or force a take down of the antennas sprouting up on rooftops all around the front range.

Are there any documented cases of homeowners winning against the HOA or vice-versa? A few years ago, when I asked my HOA about an antenna for NTSC, they said it wasn't allowed. I could check the 200 pages of fine print covenants, but don't think it's worthwhile since the FCC specifically doesn't allow them to impede installation of antennas within a certain size. I suppose I still have to send them an architectural request to put up an antenna, but if they deny it and I go ahead and put one up and they sue me, I can't afford to hire a lawyer. Any lawyers out there willing to work pro-bono on this issue? I wouldn't even want to have to shell out more money to have an installer remove an antenna.

Originally posted by santellavision
Except, the Mgmt is laughing for a different reason, the longer they wait, the more money the station makes... and the more that translates into cash-ola at 'Bonus Time'!

How do they make more money as people tune away to competing stations which they can actually receive? All I see is viewer loss ==> commercial revenue loss.

Well theres no "viewer loss" to speak of when it comes to the digital channels because generally speaking theres no viewers to begin with..be it in Denver or anywhere else. Especially in cities where HD isnt offered over cable. When it comes to digital over the air reception capabilities only about 5 or 6 homes out of a 1000 (as averaged nationwide) have the equipment to do it.

And advertisers arent paying anything extra at this point to have their ad's seen on the digital channels anyway. All the stations ad revenues are still based solely on the analog viewership.

Originally posted by donyoop
It is KUSA's 1st week and I wish I had a buzzer or something to wake up the engineering staff when a high def show is about to start; so I'll cut them some slack. It usually takes a couple of weeks to achieve HD switching perfection like KCNC.
Don KCNC was far from perfect last night during CSI. It was 4x3 till the first commercial and later after a commercial break they started showing CSI for all of about 5-10 seconds and then jumped back into a commercial for 20 seconds or so and then back into CSI.

HDTimeShifter,

I would do a search of the forums to read about the HOA battles. I've read quite a few threads about this. I think every one has been a winner. The law is on your side. And they would have to pay all legal fees when you win.

Here's a link to the FCC website. Print it out and submit it to them to start.

FCC HOA Rules (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html)

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV... but I have read there are some restrictions, it's not anything goes.

The property has to be in 'Your Control'. If you live in a house, you can mount antennas, Sat dishes etc whereever you need to. But, If it's a townhome or condo, then you cannot mount a dish or antenna on their controlled areas (i.e. roof, outside wall) You can put an antenna/dish on your deck.

Read the link for more info. Good Luck.

I agree about KCNC last night. I called the station when CSI started (took a while to figure out I need to call a number for news tips, press 1 a couple of times, then talk to a real person) and asked them to tell engineering to switch the HD feed on. He said he would connect me with engineering. Well, after about 50 rings, no answer, so apparantly nobody was home! Maybe, when their "break" was done and they came back to work, they noticed HD was not on and flipped the switch.

I also felt that the PQ on CSI, including the normally crisp SD commercials, was much worse last night. I got to thinking that maybe the stations have real HD problems "time-shifting" 20 minutes for the President's speech.

Finally, I also am now very unimpressed with KUSA. My wife wanted to watch ER again in HD. Not there and Leno wasn't either. I'll send a note to Don Perez asking what is up.

Tonite Show was back in HD tonight. Had Reese Witherspoon on.

However, KUSA has got to get rid of the superimposed KUSA-DT DENVER in the bottom left hand corner. Quite annoying.

Thank you KUSA for passing the NBC Kentucky Derby HD feed today. It is much appreciated. Everything was great except I could not quite pick the superfecta correctly, much less the winner who's owner has a funny side.

Don

Yes, thanks KUSA, but I think NBC could have done a better job. It looked like they had very few HD cameras and most shots were SD with reddish bars on the sides!

Any ideas why KUSA is not broadcasting any "Prime Time" programming In HD? The only Prime Time program shown in HD this week was Crossing Jordon. Tried watching Law and Order and Law and Order SVU in HD on KUSA tonight, but no luck.

Switched to KMGH, 7-1 and am watching "Gladiator" in HD. Video is awesome but audio is not DD 5.1

When I watched Gladiator tonight, my receiver showed Dolby Digital.

This is going to be pretty long. Everything in bold is my comment or commentary.

Jefferson County Planning Commission Hearing, April 30.

Hearing called to order at 6:05pm. Room was pretty full already, although more people trickled in as the night went on. The chairman opened with the statement that all homeowner association and other group testimony had been completed at the previous hearing, and that tonight was devoted to individual testimony.

First up was Jim Vickery. Lived on Lookout since 1969. Had run all kinds of very non-scientific sounding interference studies. 80 cases, all said that interference increases with increase in RF radiation. Lots and lots of gobbledy gook. Teaches astronomy, works with numbers all the time…yada yada yada…Commissioners shot his testimony down with a few questions. All based on Al Hislop’s study. So, if the RF levels go down, then that’ll mean that interference will go down to, right? Isn’t that a good thing? Jim was a BIG NO.

Penny Clark lives a half mile from the towers. She’s a BIG NO. She’s an associate professor at CU or DU or some university here someplace. Tower site should be someplace not close to homes. RF causes cancer…yada yada yada…failed to mention that towers were there before most of the homes… Commissioners shot her down to – she knew about the RF before she moved there, so why then did she move there?

Gordon Hamilton, a BIG NO. Lived on Lookout since 1976. Married his wife Nancy in 1985. His wife Nancy died in 2001 from mouth cancer. Blames towers. Neighbor up the hill died from cancer. Neighbor down the street died from cancer. Neighbor’s wife down the street died from cancer. Lots of people on his block died from cancer. Lots of cancer, bad bad bad. Lives right between the KYGO tower and the KWGN towers. Talks about KYGO tower being out of compliance. and that has what to do with the LCG towers??? Towers bad. Why do you continue to live there if you are so convinced the towers are giving everyone cancer?

Alfred Cooper, BIG NO, moved there in 1975. Really pissed off the commissioners with his first comment – something about letting their daughters die by living up there…costs $25000 to $50000 to protect his house from radiation. bet he’d be able to protect it from UFO abductions also for that price. lots of diseases and health problems…yada yada yada same story. Radiation causes gene modification and mental diseases. Towers make you crazy. Commissioner Cole shot him down – “Towers were there first”…then the NIMBY people moved in.

Philadelphia Cousins, BIG NO, moved there in 1987. The channel 4 tower is aimed right at her head. Talked about history and compliance issues, primarily with the radio station towers. LCG giving unreliable data in their applications. Really levels are going to be 160%, 180%, even 232% above FCC standards. LCG dishonest and imcompetent. Supertower won’t lower levels.

Ann Sower, BIG NO, mother of 3 who moved there in the 60’s. Thought Lookout would be clean safe environment. LCG arrogent, forceful. LCG stations never complied with exposure limits…cause big health risk. There are viable alternate sites. LCG refuses to see beyond current location. LCG has no personal ethics. Lookout residential area…no place for tower farm. I’m sitting here thinking this entire speech about how we should get the Jeffco Sheriff in here right now to arrest this women for child endangerment. If she really believes the crap that she’s spewing, she should be in jail for doing that to her children.

Michael Clineit, BIG NO (I think – was hard to tell), lived on Lookout 22 years. Spent his 3 minutes talking about being an electrician for 30 years how permits and building codes are a good and necessary thing. Never really related it back to the towers. Commissioners were confused.

Kristena Shay, BIG NO, lives near towers. Sees 5 towers out her windows. Only cares about radiation. Towers aren’t good neighbors. She said that 4 or 5 times. Can’t use their dog’s invisible fence because it electrocutes him in the house. Must be the towers causing it…maybe she should talk to the previous speaker about checking it out for her – he’s an electrician after all… She gets shocked by the radiation all the time. real wacko this one

TJ Kenny, BIG NO, lives 1 mile from towers and radar dome. Towers in fire hazard zone from prevailing winds blowing to the west. If fire breaks out, it moves towards his home. Irresponsible to put high voltage lines and diesel storage where fire could start. Mother has cancer because of towers. He said that she was diagnosed 15 years after she moved away from the towers, but it must be the towers fault…

Brian Smith, BIG NO, lived 16 years on Lookout. Spent lots remodeling his home to block radiation - $9000.

MISSED NEXT SPEAKER – had to go to the restroom…Sounded like a BIG NO, though.

Bee Todd, BIG NO, built house in 1971. Direct LOS to towers. 1999, husband died from brain cancer. Lots of neighbors with cancer. Bad TV reception. Had to use lead shield next to computer to get it to work because of all the radiation. Had radiation levels measured next to her house, they were lower than FCC standards, but towers still evil.

Kevin Histon, THE FIRST YES, moved here 5 years ago. Deny proposal, nothing changes on the mountain. Proposal will allow movement forward into 21st Century.

Denise Cox, BIG NO, Agrees with all the NO testimony, there are other sites.

Jeff Wartsfield, THE SECOND YES, Colorado leads nation in many things, but sadly far behind in the area of digital television. Please vote to approve.

Jason Maloney, THE THIRD YES, Towers either stay there forever, or they consolidate. One tower vs. 5 towers, Future vs. past.

Steve Glick, BIG NO, Planning development director for City of Golden. Golden City Council voted to recommend to planning commission to deny application. guess we should put the towers on North or South Tabletop mountian then, huh? Need to study long term effects before doing anything. FCC standards not good enough.

Susan London, BIG NO, Petroleum geologist. Analogy – everything doesn’t come down to money. Oil and gas wells drilled in Jeffco, but there are some places they would never be drilled. Same thing with the towers.

James C Wilson, BIG NO, Dept of Engineering chairman at DU. Worried about Shelton Elementary, dismissive of radiation claims until reading CO Dept of Health report about it. Don’t experiment on our kids!

Patricia Roberts, BIG NO, LCG doesn’t need a building as big as they say they do.

Peter Sauer, BIG NO, moved there in 1990. Has family now and is concerned about not enough study into health effects of radiation. And concerned about his property values. Where’s the Sheriff again?

Betty Seland, BIG NO, Board of planning if some Jeffco Open Space program, mountain backdrop looks nice – towers make it look bad. Need towers someplace else.

Don Bientenal, BIG NO, moved there in 1998. Current towers must be phased out. Squaw would be a good place to put them. seems to think that the existing towers will have to be removed when the switchover happens, or before

Frank McLaughlin, THE FOURTH YES, lives in Park Hill. The new tower would benefit 1.5 million people vs a few property owners. Do the right thing.

Roger Matsen, BIG NO, 39 years as a public health regulator in non-ionization radiation. Golden Mayor asked him to tell the commissioners to just say no. Current FCC levels not acceptable. Low level long term exposure bad, FCC ignores it. We think that there’s probably an effect, but we just can’t prove it yet. he actually said that – it’s not my comment

Larry Court, THE FIFTH YES. didn’t listen to his speech because I was next.

Mark Lamutt, THE SIXTH YES. my comments are earlier in my summary post for the meeting.

Linda Johnson, THE SEVENTH YES, One tower would be much less detrimental than 4. Would look a lot better too.

John Wehley, BIG NO, Impacts on children. Children can’t escape the insidious rays. “Let’s think about the children”…Sheriff?

Colin Barton, BIG NO, from Austrailia. Tobacco, ddt, plutonium all thought OK in the past, now thought not OK. Same with RF radiation in the future.

Eddie Alianiello, BIG NO, Live below towers. Air full of radiation. Get channel 31 on all 31 channels. Extreme noise levels because sound travels so much better on the mountain than anywhere else. Can hear 2 tower workers whispering to each other at the top of a tower from miles away. New facilities would result in noise levels at least 75 dB. New tower would turn Lookout into a ghetto.

Steven Hart, BIG NO, lived 15 years on lookout. Can’t use phones, radios. Has to unplug tv at night because turning it off doesn’t turn it off. Radiation affecting him physically. Asked the commissioners how many of them would want their children living by the towers. Sheriff? Radiation bad…

Carlo Copf, BIG NO, Daughters 3 years old and 1 year old. LCG will double RF levels. How would you feel if on your daughter’s 16th birthday, instead of giving her a car, you had to give her chemotherapy. Dammit, where’s the Sheriff? Arrest these child abusers!

Terrance Rappoport, BIG NO, complex issues. Corporations have bias toward the bottom line, even if against the public good. Compared GM’s Pinto When did GM make a Pinto? Didn’t they learn from Ford? blowing up and paying victems off rather than recalling them to tower site and proposal… real wacko here

Vera Grothy, BIG NO, bad interference, can’t use electronic devices. Sheriff deputies couldn't call back to their station on cell phones – had to use their phone. Life and death situation. Towers bad when cell phones don’t work. Of course, it turns out it wasn’t a problem after all, but it could have been a real problem. Her security system doesn’t work right either.

Dick Kiefer, BIG NO, Likes to be outside, but afraid to be because of the radiation. How would Golden like it if the tower was put on the Taj Mahol?

Paul Kalkwarf, BIG NO, RF will more than double with digital and analog together, and will then be almost double with just digital. Had all kinds of numbers and graphs that made no sense at all

END OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

LCG team responded to issues raised. Fred Neehouse spoke generally, and then Marv Rockford spoke to specific issues.

Jeffco Staff then responded:

If application not approved, legal non-conforming towers will only go away after they have been abandoned for 180 days. which ain’t ever gonna happen if app gets denied

Tower failure, Section 17.f, tower meets setback requirements.

Water – when app was submitted, proof of water was not required, but the app included it anyway and covers the new regulations that are no in place.

Potential leakage of diesel into Kenny Rim drainage from storage tanks (20000 gal max capacity). Stored underground, permits required by state, fire dept must approve, etc.

Alt Sites: application must demonstrate no existing alternate sites available. 2 potential alternate sites. Squaw: can accommodate, but construction needed. Zoning would allow construction. Squaw did study, indoor reception can be accomplished in most locations. Staff still thinks Squaw a potential site. Mt Morrison, BCDC said they could accommodate LCG equipment in their building. Staff thinks that Morrison could accommodate digital equipment, but not analog and digital equipment. LCG says they need 18,950 SF, BCDC says they can give 11,000 SF. Applicant hasn’t proved other sites won’t work.

RF: measurements taken April 11, found one hot spot where peak measurement 110% of max, but spaced average was only 37% of max levels. Lookout complies with the standards.

Interference: App has an item that sets up a remediation alternative to resolve complaints of interference for the first year of operation.

The commissioners then asked some of their questions, and the meeting was adjourned until this Wednesday night at around 7.

Thanks for the summary Mark. With KUSA now doing some HDTV, I'm back on the fence as to whether or not I'll testify at the BCC hearings (should be sometime this week, right KMGH?)

Originally posted by markdl
Jason Maloney, THE THIRD YES, Towers either stay there forever, or they consolidate. One tower vs. 5 towers, Future vs. past.

Wonder if he's a relative of mine? Apparently my Maloney ancestors came up to Canada from the US. At least he's on the right side :)


Originally posted by markdl
Vera Grothy, BIG NO, [snip] Her security system doesn’t work right either.


Did you happen to get her address? At the hearings I went to, everyone had to state their address for the record. :D

Super summation Mark. Thanks!

Dotto, great job in the summary Mark. Thanks for the hard work.

I haven't read through this entire thread (just came across it searching for Denver reception info), so pardon me if someone already mentioned it, but is it possible for JeffCo to simply condemn Lookout Mtn., buy up all the properties so residents can move to cancer-free areas, and rezone the area in the greater public interest (maybe even make the land a nature preserve)? That's how they normally build primary highways (something they should probably also do to the NIMBYs in Golden who object to 470).

That doesn't sound economically feasible. I think that property is big $$$.

I didn't get any HD from KUSA last night on American Dreams or Law and Order.

While looking for info on dtv in Denver, I ran across this article:
link (http://www.digitaltelevision.com/history/essay1999-06.shtml)

The only relevant information is this:LeBlanc Broadcast implemented a quick and simple solution for KMGH-TV, the McGraw-Hill station in Denver, when it became apparent that the proposal by local broadcasters to implement a common tower on Lookout Mountain would be delayed--if not denied. The solution consisted of cantilevering a Scala SL-8 antenna above the elevator penthouse roof, and feeding the antenna with a 150-watt Larcan DTV transmitter. The resultant signal has had a surprisingly effective reach, given the effective radiated power of about one kilowatt, and an EHAAT of about 30 meters.

EHAAT = Effective Height Above Average Terrain?

It is good to know that they use a 150-watt transmitter....

Or is it?

-Wabisabi

I'm at 8000' and i've got a 200 watt lightbulb in my garage. I bet if I hooked a ExpressVu HDTV receiver to that, all of Denver would get ABC reception!

Scala SL-8 antenna
I've got closets full of these at home. Wonder what they might be worth on eBay?

Scala SL-8 (http://www.kathrein-scala.com/getdata.phtml?id=325) What cracks me up is that I actually highlighted the correct antenna in the photo above!

Nice catch Jetlag, although how silly do we AVS members look now? Here we thought they had to pull out the bottom end of the coat hanger.
:D

Turns out they use the coat hanger just to make it look 'extra high tech' instead of what it actually is, a cheap home toy. I wonder what part of the $400K they invested in that antenna? My guess would be AT LEAST $500. I guess a 150 Watt transmitter must be going for about $399,500 these days in order to make the move.....but wait, they already have one. So what is it that will cost $399,500 to move to the RB? The box to pack it in?
:rolleyes:

The KMGH mystery deepens! This may be one only Inspector Jacques Clouseau (aka The Pink Panther) can solve!

We all need to just calm down about KMGH and their Toy Transmitter. After all KMGH is a network affiliate with hundreds of employees and a large staff assigned to cover news. Certainly they're up-front and honest about their capabilities and since their attorney told us they would have approval this spring and be ready with permanent facilities "shortly" we have "nothing to fear". I mean hey, if we can't trust their word how would we possibly be able to trust their news? We should all be able to receive Monday Night Football in all its High Definition glory come September - right?
:mad:

Of course your correct Geof, we just need to calm down, MNF will be in HD all over the metro area and likely Fort Collins and Greeley too just like KMGH's lawyers said it would.
:cool:
"What could possibly go wrong?...go wrong?...go wrong?...go wrong?...go wrong?...go wrong...?

MNF -- phooey. I want the Stanley Cup Finals in HD.

:(

Originally posted by zeedave
I didn't get any HD from KUSA last night on American Dreams or Law and Order.

The only things I have seen passed through in HD are the Tonite Show, however some viewers in this forum said Crossing Jordan was in HD last week.

I just sent Don Perez an email with his comments, but I think they may still be in a 'testing' mode where they might only be passing Leno and 1 other show in HD (i.e. they have not yet fully figured out how to have all HD shows passed in HD and then switch back for commercials and non-16:9 content).

- dustin

Originally posted by Geof
We should all be able to receive Monday Night Football in all its High Definition glory come September - right?
:mad:

More importantly, will we get Broncos games in HD on KCNC this fall? I e-mailed KCNC and the person that replied said they weren't HD last fall and had no idea if they will be this fall. Well, there's a Broncos game almost every weekend on KCNC, but maybe once or twice a season on Monday night. As for other teams, I could care less - Satellite is there for fans of other cities.

Is this KMGH coat hanger thing for real or just a joke?:confused:

Well it's not up to KCNC of course as to whether the Bronco games are in HD or not. Thats a Network issue, KCNC would just pass through whatever they get.

That said, no not every game will be in HD because that would infer that every game CBS does on Sunday would be in HD and thats not feasible yet. Theres talk that they might carry one or maybe 2 games at best in HD on a given Sunday and in a case like that it would just as likely be say the Raiders vs Chiefs or Jets vs Miami as it would Denver vs anyone.

I'm not a Bronco fan so I cant tell you exactly how many times they're penciled in for Monday Night Football and Sunday Night Football on ESPN, but whatever number of games that is, those will be broadcast in HD and it'll just be a question of if a person has access to those channels in HD. And then like I say, the number of times, if any, that they might be on CBS in HD is yet to be determined.

So no stations are doing local HD broadcasts yet? Is HD recording equipment so expensive that they only do this on a national level? I assume that whenever TV goes 100% HD, all stations will have all their equipment in HD?

Oh, you're going to like this answer HDTimeShifter.

Of all our local, big-time network stations, the only one doing any local HDTV broadcasts is...drum roll please...KRMA -- that's right, your local PBS station has produced several "Spirit Of Colorado" episodes in 1080i 16x9 HDTV. I'm not sure if they've done any other local programming, but SOC looks GREAT if you're able to catch it.

The other stations apparently can't afford the equipment. *cough*

Well none of our big 3 networks do any HD thats originated at the local level. But even if they did it wouldnt include the NFL regular season/post season games because those broadcasts are Network produced broadcasts.

Now if the channels had the equipment of their own (which they dont because of cost as you say, especially when considering the lack of potential viewers) they could do like pre-season games because most of those are locally produced. They could even do other programming in HD if they wanted to. Like 2 of the Seattle stations I get in HD happen to do their local news in HD for example. But they're 2 out of a total of maybe 3 or 4 in the whole country that do that at this point.

It is certain from the Bronco schedule that at least three games will be in HD. The Broncos play Oakland (Sept. 22) and New England (Nov 3) on MNF in HD on ABC MNF, and also Indianapolis (Dec 21) on ESPN in HD which would normally be broadcast locally by KMGH as well. As for CBS games, as Dan stated, CBS has not announced their HD schedule for any specific games this fall.

PS The Aug 29 pre season game from Seattle could be in HD (my speculation) as normally this past year (or two if memory serves) the Seahawks pre-season games were televised in HD to the Seattle area, and if that is true again this year, then the camera game feeds could also be used locally if the details were worked out. Don't hold your breath on that though as that is listed as a local KUSA telecast, and we all know how big of HD enthusiast's they are. They would have to work it out with the Seattle crew to get that done.

Wow - I'll get to watch the ESPN game in HD - NOT - unless DirecTV starts to carry the channel. I suspect the Bronco's will make a couple of CBS HD games (depending on how well they're playing).

Then again we will all be watching HD MNF according to the KMGH mouthpiece.:mad:

Rumor has it Geof, that D* will put HDNet Movies, ESPN-HD, and Disc-HD on the 110 sat and charge $10 for it. With only 3 transponders and Showtime-HD already there (and 5 JadeWorld asian channels), we'll have to see how (and if .. and when!) they do it.

Of course, it's only yet another D* rumor!!!

Originally posted by RonAuger
Rumor has it Geof, that D* will put HDNet Movies, ESPN-HD, and Disc-HD on the 110 sat and charge $10 for it. With only 3 transponders and Showtime-HD already there (and 5 JadeWorld asian channels), we'll have to see how (and if .. and when!) they do it.

Of course, it's only yet another D* rumor!!! And if they do manage to squeeze all that onto 110 I wonder if it'll be worth the $10/mo. I'm not sure I'd spring for that package even if the PQ is great. Depends on the content for HDNet Movies...Discovery HD has very little content and other than a BIG Bronco Fan I am not much into watching other sporting events on the tube (HD or not) (maybe some AVs but I need not think about that this year anymore).

Originally posted by markdl
LCG team responded to issues raised. Fred Neehouse spoke generally, and then Marv Rockford spoke to specific issues. What is Marv Rockford's role or job position now that he is not GM of KCNC anymore? I didn't realize he was still involved.

Originally posted by JMartinko
It is certain from the Bronco schedule that at least three games will be in HD. The Broncos play Oakland (Sept. 22) and New England (Nov 3) on MNF in HD on ABC MNF

MNF??:confused:

Monday Night Football.

Ron, I honestly don't know what Marv Rockford's roll now is. Maybe he works for the Grinnell Group now, or maybe LCG has hired him back as a consultant to push the application through. I dunno. He always seemed to be the driving voice behind it all through last year before he was fired, though.

Originally posted by RonAuger
What is Marv Rockford's role or job position now that he is not GM of KCNC anymore? I didn't realize he was still involved. Isn't he the Private Investigator looking into the backgrounds of all the JeffCo folks to see if they have a vested interest in the Lookout decision?.......Oh, wait, that was another Rockford......nevermind :(

(I watch too much TV)

Jay Leno was good in HDTV on KUSA-DT last night

Anyone using the Panasonic TU-DST51 tuner around Denver and still receiving sound on KCNC-DT? Once again I'm not receiving audio from them. I get a great picture just no sound. Everything is fine from KRMA-DT, KUSA-DT and even WCBS-DT (from DISH network). It happened for a while last year but cleared up.

I moved to downtown Denver last month and had no problem receiving KCNC until a few days ago. I don't think it's a low signal problem since I'm only 1.5 miles from Republic Plaza with a direct line of sight to my Channel Master 4248 UHF antenna (perhaps I'm getting too much signal from KUSA :confused: ). I doubt it's a problem with the STB since it only affects this channel. I wonder if KCNC changed a software setting causing my STB to get confused.

Anyone else having a problem?

Michael

Yeah, Leno was good, but, for about three minutes I wasn't sure because they forgot to "flip the switch" at the beginning of the program. Still no HD on any prime time broadcasts. I don't care much because we now watch CBS way more than NBC.

Nevertheless, I hope Don Perez can figure out his automation on switching feeds and start testing HD in the evenings. They were able to do it on the Derby, but probably took a real person to do the switches.

Frasier was in HD tonight, and the commercial switching looked pretty good from what I saw. I now just wish that KUSA would get rid of their logo on the side of the screen - it's almost guaranteed to be a problem in the future.

On the LCG front, I won't be able to attend the hearing tomorrow night at the Taj. I hope that someone goes from our little group that can report back some of the questions the commissioners come up with.

I also will be unavailable as I am traveling to Missouri to assist with some tornado recoveries.

Jeff

Can't go either -- I'm in Spokane, WA.
Any other volunteers?!

From the Jefferson Sentinal Newspaper, online version


link (http://www.jeffconews.com/1editorialbody.lasso?-token.folder=2003-04-30&-token.story=37165.111215&-nothing)

--------------------------

Golden City Council opposes new tower proposal


by Sabrina Henderson


The Golden City Council is sending a strong message that it is opposed to any new broadcasting towers being placed on Lookout Mountain.

The Lake Cedar Group brought a rezoning proposal before the council April 3 that will be voted on by the Jefferson County Planning Commission on Wednesday, April 30. The proposal would remove four existing towers on Lookout Mountain and replace them with one larger one.

At its April 24 meeting, the council voted 6-0 in favor of Resolution No. 1392, which opposes the rezoning. Councilwoman Marcie Miller was absent.

Mayor Chuck Baroch said the resolution simply states the council’s intention to continue opposing any new towers until a comprehensive study on their impacts is done and incorporated into health and safety standards. Additionally, the resolution states that radiation emissions from the towers should be “as low as reasonably achievable.”

“Incidentally, ‘as low as reasonably achievable’ is zero, because if you don’t put anything there, that’s zero,” Baroch said.

The mayor asked city staff to prepare a letter to the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners, informing them of the council’s position on the towers and the unanimous passage of the resolution opposing the proposal. He said he would sign the letter and deliver it to the commissioners before the zoning hearing.

----------------------------

-Wabisabi

Originally posted by wabisabi
From the Jefferson Sentinal Newspaper, online version:

--------------------------

Golden City Council opposes new tower proposal


by Sabrina Henderson


The Golden City Council is sending a strong message that it is opposed to any new broadcasting towers being placed on Lookout Mountain.
:
:
:

----------------------------

-Wabisabi Strong message indeed. Now it's not just SCARE opposed to new towers. I think this is going to be very difficult to overcome and at this point in time it looks to me like LCG2 is serious trouble.

Look how long it took to get C/E470 complete around the city!

Oh I forgot, it's not done through Golden yet. :(

I have a friend in lower Golden, that has been getting flyers stuck in their mailboxes telling outragous stories about tons of people getting cancer in the Golden area.

She's believed it and was getting scared. Until I told her the whole story that it was just CARE and their NIMBY fanatics spewing BS to further their cause.

The Golden reps did present that letter to the planning commission at the hearing that I summarized on the 30th.

Originally posted by wabisabi
From the Jefferson Sentinal Newspaper, online version


link (http://www.jeffconews.com/1editorialbody.lasso?-token.folder=2003-04-30&-token.story=37165.111215&-nothing)

--------------------------

Golden City Council opposes new tower proposal


Mayor Chuck Baroch said the resolution simply states the council’s intention to continue opposing any new towers until a comprehensive study on their impacts is done and incorporated into health and safety standards.
----------------------------

-Wabisabi

OK, so I am going to take a 'wild guess' that the statistical evidence of the past..oh say 50 or so years used to set the existing safety standards by the FCC is not yet conclusive, but that one or two more years of additional data would just about do it. Or more to the point, let me guess that there will be enough evidence to conclude the current safety standards are acceptable within about two days after the LCG says the towers will be moved to someone else's back yard. I don't know why they can't just come out and state this, instead of beating around the bush using words like 'comprehensive study'. Come on Golden City Council, don't obfuscate, show some guts and just say what you mean.

BTW, I wonder if these Golden City Council folks are aware that the KMGH lawyer said the decision will come this spring and they will be on the mountain with their signal shortly after that. Someone should send a copy of the KMGH FCC letter to the Golden City Council folks and let them know they are waisting their time with this.

jm said,
OK, so I am going to take a 'wild guess' that the statistical evidence of the past..oh say 50 or so years used to set the existing safety standards by the FCC is not yet conclusive, but that one or two more years of additional data would just about do it. Or more to the point, let me guess that there will be enough evidence to conclude the current safety standards are acceptable within about two days after the LCG says the towers will be moved to someone else's back yard. I don't know why they can't just come out and state this, instead of beating around the bush using words like 'comprehensive study'. Come on Golden City Council, don't obfuscate, show some guts and just say what you mean. Well said John.
BTW, I wonder if these Golden City Council folks are aware that the KMGH lawyer said the decision will come this spring and they will be on the mountain with their signal shortly after that. Someone should send a copy of the KMGH FCC letter to the Golden City Council folks and let them know they are waisting their time with this.And perhaps the Golden letter should be sent to KMGH and their attorney. Perhaps it would help them pull their head out of their a$$es.

Don Perez at KUSA just sent me an email stating that ER would not be in HD tonight. The NBC national feed will not be in HD based on an email he got from NBC HQ.

How can NBC not broadcast ER in HD??? They already film it in 16:9 and place bars around it in analog, not to mention it's probably TV's #2 show after Friends. Now if only CBS had such quality programming as they are as gung-ho about HD...

This season's #1 show, CSI, is in gorgeous HDTV every week thanks to KCNC:
http://tv.zap2it.com/news/ratings/season/030504season.html

I broke down and called an antenna guy to come out on Monday and mount my antenna on my roof. I'm too chicken to get up there myself :) I'm hoping that'll give me enough extra height to reliably get KUSA-DT and KRMA-DT. Right now they're both kind of hit or miss.

Wow, Friends is no longer #1?!!! Whatever happened to Must See TV - I thought NBC has been dominant ever since Seinfield. I guess they show too many repeats these days. I thought Survivor was the closest challenge to date. I'd be very tempted to start tuning in CBS once I get HD.

What kind of antenna have you been using up 'til now? I'm still trying to find out if anybody has any success without attic or outdoor antennas.

NBC? Haven't watched too much of that since I got my HDTV. Sounds like I may have to start checking out this fledgling network.

I'm using a Radio Shack VHF/UHF VU-90? antenna. It's pretty big and is hanging in my garage at the moment.

With an indoor $15 K-Mart special antenna, I'm only able to get Faux in stunning "Digital Widescreen". Keep in mind that I'm way up in Brighton -- with your location you might have more luck. Oh, and it should work for ABC any time now (crossing my fingers and holding my breath :rolleyes: )

Did anybody but (S)Care go to the Taj last night?

I live in Lafayette and get 16, 18, 29, 32, 35 all pretty well with a cheepo Double Bow Tie from RS. This is discontinued, but I got a few a while back, because my large RS antenna in the rafters above my garage is on the wrong side of my house to see downtown. I got three of these because I believe that I will probably have 3 TVs set up to receive DTV before LCG is approved (I know, KMGH assures me this is imminent, but let's just say I found their response to be disingenuous at best).

Anyway, I could probably be convinced to give one up. PM me if you want to try it.

Hey, how much is it to replace Airtracker 7? My guess is about $400,000 since it looked like a toy helicopter mangled on the ground.

Don

Got an update from Pete saying another Planning Commission hearing is scheduled for the 14th. He also mentioned it would be late June/early July before the matter gets going with the BCC.

So much for a Spring approval KMGH - you've mislead us and the FCC (surprise surprise).

Originally posted by Geof
............He also mentioned it would be late June/early July before the matter gets going with the BCC.

So much for a Spring approval KMGH - you've mislead us and the FCC (surprise surprise).

No BCC review until June or July??? Is Pete being an optimist?? The KMGH lawyer has deceived the FCC and the public in the name of KMGH???

I am truly shocked. Does this mean you can't trust a lawyer???? Who could have known?????
:D

(My apologies to the couple of honest lawyers that actually do exist. It's just that its so darn hard to find you among the rest of them). Is there any wonder why some of us have given up on the entire process. You can't even get a straight, honest, respectful answer from the people you were trying to support in the first place.

PS
Sorry :rolleyes: I couldn't be there last night, after shuttling my son to a couple of evening events, I went back to my 'Canadian' home to watch some hockey.

jm said,
You can't even get a straight, honest, respectful answer from the people you were trying to support in the first place. That sums it up nicely in one short simple sentence and is why their support has fallen off (obviously). Perhaps it's time for KMGH to straighten out and fly right......

Perhaps it's time for KMGH to straighten out and fly right......You mean the management and not their helicopter... right? ;)

Originally posted by santellavision
You mean the management and not their helicopter... right? ;) Err.....both actually.....:(

Just got an update from KMGH management -- they expect their helicopter to be repaired and flying again by Monday :rolleyes:

Originally posted by dr_mal
Just got an update from KMGH management -- they expect their helicopter to be repaired and flying again by Monday :rolleyes: Let me guess.....they said it will be fixed....."Shortly" right ? ;)

They will probably tell us they will have to get that chopper back in the air by using the money that just yesterday morning they had devoted to moving their toy HD transmitter to the RB.

"And we were that close to moving it for you AVS guys, what a shame, it would have been so good for Denver!"

It is not even their chopper. Hopefully they and the leasing company had insurance! (It is good noone got hurt!) So, I am pretty sure that their commitment of spring approval and shortly to get the transmitter on Lookout is still on track. After all, their lawyer committed that to us and the FCC in writing!

Come on down to the Springs where you can put up any antenna you want on top of Cheyenne Mountain w/o a peep from the locals! Unfortunately, if you are a Democrat, all we will let you do is pay taxes and drive on the roads :-)

Originally posted by ADent
PBS : KBDI : TV12 : DTV38 : Testing. Awaiting equipment


Anybody able to get KBDI in HD? I saw Smart Travels last night (this morning technically) and they were making a big deal about it being in HD, but I was watching cable on my analog set...

Well we get to see Smart Travels in HD on KRMA- DT 18. All KBDI has done was some testing with a generic demo loop awhile back.

But Smart Travels is some great looking HD indeed.

I haven't heard of KBDI being back on the air yet? But, even if they were, I wouldn't be able to receive them up here in Genesee, too much shadowing.

Originally posted by santellavision
I haven't heard of KBDI being back on the air yet? But, even if they were, I wouldn't be able to receive them up here in Genesee, too much shadowing. Aw, come on Ernie - everyone "knows" Squaw is an excellent site ;)

NOT!

IIRC, KBDI wasn't even the one broadcasting -- they were allowing Al Hislop et al to use their allotted frequency to run some reception tests.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Question: Does DT-16 (KUSA) go off air at night?
I just got my stuff setup.

I live in Superior, CO (West End)
I have a Channel Master 4228 and a Toshiba DST-3000.

DT-16 44 (For a few minutes, now nothing...)
DT-17 0-6
DT-18 58 (Pixelation sometimes)
DT-32 93-100
DT-35 15 (No Picture)
DT-46 0-9

Thanks!

sakka,

KUSA-DT doesn't go off the air at night, they rarely have HD showing, but they are indeed there all night, but I am surprised that you can get any of the signals outside of 32 at all being behind the ridge ( 128 ). You would be the first that was able to receive there.

Jeff

Originally posted by jeffden
sakka,

KUSA-DT doesn't go off the air at night, they rarely have HD showing, but they are indeed there all night, but I am surprised that you can get any of the signals outside of 32 at all being behind the ridge ( 128 ). You would be the first that was able to receive there.

Jeff

I am surprised too. I simply got the CM 4228 to replace my crappy Terk TV55. (Got sick of FOX going out when I walked by the TV) From what I have read, I really expected to get nothing beyond DT-32. With the Terk TV55 I got nothing by FOX at 63.

So now I will through another curve ball... The Cm 4228 is sitting inside the house (in my dinning room in fact) ... No I am at the far West of Superior (Near Andrew and Christenson just of McCaslin.) So I am a bit back from the Ridge and Higher than most of Superior... however I do not have line-of-sight to Denver in any way.

Also, to get a high enough signal to use I had to also rotate the CM 4228 slightly so it is off of virtical a bit. No Idea why.

I can tell you I am watching 6-1 right now, very pretty, much like HD Net except it pixelates a little now and then, but not alot, and the sound will cut out when it pixelates. I was in fact watching 9-1 and 16-1 for a while... until all of a sudden it went to zero and disapeared. I have no idea why.

I am considering putting the Cm 4228 on the roof and see if I can boost it up a bit to stop the pixelation. I may also try better cable... I am using 60 feet of junky cable.

I sure would like to have NBC back though... I will have to play more.

Hello Sakka,

I'm seeing KUSA 16-DT at zero signal strength also now when I normally get a 94 signal strength. I believe they are no longer on the air (could it be weather related?) tonight.

Don

I spoke too soon. 9-1 and 16-1 is back and I am watching Law and Order in what looks like HD Widescreen (but it looks semi up converted, like HBO and SHO on DirecTV.) And I spoke too soon again. It is now gone. And now it is back... all in just a few minutes. Very Odd... and when it is gone it is not pixelating like 6-1... it is just gone like someone turned it off. Not a black screen either... like it went analog and I don't get it well...

I could not get KUSA-DT last night but it is back on this morning.

Just got the pj set-up and am able to watch some great programing from DirecTV, but I want to get over-the-air HDTV. My STB is a Toshiba DST3000... and I've plugged in a Zenith indoor HDTV antenna.. but no luck. Down here, just north of castle rock, can I get Denver HDTV? Do I need to install an outdoor antenna... any recommendations as far as how to hook it up for best results???? Should an indoor antenna be picking anything up?


Thanks!


- Ben.

Ben,

Read back a few pages and also check the Denver Reception Map Data Thread (do a search and it should pop up). I think there are a few lucky folks in Castle Rock picking up some of the Denver signals but you will need an attic antenna at a minimum and should probably just go on the roof. If I recall correctly, there's only a handful of people sin Denver successfully using an indoor antenna that actually sits on top of or near their TV.

More detailed instructions can be found, but a general rule is to get the antenna on the roof and run one single uninterrupted piece of coax through a window or something straight to the back of your STB for testing. Have somebody watch the signal strength meter on Ch 35 or Ch 18 while you adjust the antenna. When you maximize strength you can mount the antenna. Good luck.

-Dave

Do you guys buy regular coax cable or something like the old twin flat wire cable (I think I currently have a short piece of that between my rabbit ears and the coax plug) for the antenna run?

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Do you guys buy regular coax cable or something like the old twin flat wire cable (I think I currently have a short piece of that between my rabbit ears and the coax plug) for the antenna run? Use good quality low loss RG-6 cable and NO splitters. After you get the antenna position fine tuned you can try a splitter (if needed) and see what effect it has (some of us lose reception with any sort of splitter in line).

The Denver Map thread has valuable info for anyone trying to see if they can get reception. It's only 5 pages long (or so) and well worth reading.

Anyone know how high the Antennas in Denver are?

I know I do not have line of sight as I am 215 Feet lower than the ridge between myself and denver. I am 16 miles from stations and the ridge is about 1.7 miles from me.

According to TopoUSA I am at 5575 (in Superior), the Ridge is at 5790, and the Building is at 5250 feet (Ground Floor). But I don't know how high the bulding is...

At this point I get CBS, NBC, PBS, but not ABC. (And FOX) Just currious how far off from Line-of-sight I am. I guess ABC is much lower than the rest...

Thanks for any info you have.

The RP tower is, I believe, 37 floors, but that is from memory being in the building a while back. So, probably 300 feet high max.

Jeff

sakka,

Also, ABC only originates from the top of the KMGH building which I think is only 6 or 7 floors and their studio has a lot of obstructions that blocktheir signal going north. If you are able to get them behind the ridge, I would be absolutely amazed. I don't believe there has been much, if any, success on the north end of the city trying to pull KMGH in,

Jeff

You may want to try pointing your antenna 10 to 45 degrees above horizontal. Dan (DP-1) did this to mine and it worked for KMGH. It looks like it is pointing too high, but did the trick.

I just replaced my WinTV HD card with a Hughes E86 and I can now receive KMGH's signal with a constant 51. I have an antenna on my roof and I live less than 3 miles directly east of the station and I believe that I have maximized the aiming of the antenna on their signal. THe problem is that the picture breaks up every so often and the sound drops out every couple of seconds.

Does any one else have the E86 that is able to receive KMGH? What is the signal strength that you are getting and do you have any breakups like this?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/technology/article/0,1299,DRMN_49_1954560,00.html

I have an E86 clone, jp. I need a signal strength of 37 to lock on steady. If it goes anything below that, like fluctuating from 30, 37, 30 ,37 etc I'll have breakups. Otherwise at a steady 37 or higher (sometimes depending on weather I can get 44 or even 51) then it's glitch free.

But that doesnt really mean a whole lot because everyones particular type of install is different, coupled with the signals in question being so low powered to begin with.

Originally posted by jpfletcher
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/technology/article/0,1299,DRMN_49_1954560,00.html

Great story -- but KDVR (Faux) is already broadcasting from Lookout.

Geof -- did the reporter contact you for those quotes or were they gleaned from messages posted here?

Ernie -- thanks for your contributions to this article. Hopefully this issue can get on the radar now.

jpfletcher--Thanks for the link to the Rocky. Great article. Anyone get the Rocky?? Where is the article? Is it in a visible (front of section) spot. Boy it sounds like that Geoff Grieble guy is not real happy with most of the local stations. I wonder if he is related to the Geof that posts here in the forum? :D Claiming that the some of the locals are hiding behind the Lookout issue as a way to save money. What an attitude. That is sooooo unlike the rest of us here in the forum feel.

Hey Ernie, nice picture, but couldn't you have found a shot of some gorgeous blond instead of Bruce Willis for a backdrop, or were you afraid we wouldn't notice your picture if you did that????
:D

I heard that the article was in today's paper, so I looked for it online, there was no link to it on the main page, so I went to the Business page and found it. I was hoping that Steve would make more of a point about KMGH's failure to provide an acceptable signal.

KMGH's signal is so low that even when I have good signal stregth (40 to 42 on a DTC100), things can happen (I think due to multipath) that cause some breakups in the picture and the sound.

On top of that, KMGH does not do a good job monitoring their sound signal anyway. We watched The Green Mile on Saturday and the sound would frequently cut out with a frequent loud crackle or pop when it did that. A few times it would not sync up for a long time. My receiver would be going off and on from 5.1 rapidly with no sound. We eventually switched over to SD off the satellite, because my wife could no longer stand it!! The sound off the satellite was not good either. It was coming from the center and left front speaker and the fidelity was definitely screwed up.

So, KMGH has a long way to go. I remember when KCNC was having sound problems and many of us helped them fix it, so today they are pretty problem free. We all know KMGH doesn't care and wouldn't use the "constructive feedback" anyway.

I don't take the Rocky, but how about some letters to the editor agreeing with or embellishing the points made in the article? Good job!

Originally posted by dr_mal
Geof -- did the reporter contact you for those quotes or were they gleaned from messages posted here? Steve Caulk interviewed me a couple of weeks ago. Obviously I wasn't sure what - if any - of my statements he would use in the article.

Unfortunately, here's an article from last Wed. USA Today ... fuel for sCARE's cry of fire.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-05-07-radiation-usat_x.htm

Even if we concede their point that TV towers cause cancer (which I don't believe is true), it doesn't change the fact that most, if not all, of sCARE's members moved onto Lookout decades after the towers were placed there.

If I thought for one second that my kids (a boy and a girl, both under 4) were being hurt because of where we lived, I'd get the heck out of dodge. Their argument that the towers should be removed is silly, pointless, and a waste of everybody's time. It would be like me complaining about the sound of trains going past my house all night long blowing their whistles. Union Pacific had tracks there - in plain sight - for decades before I bought my house.

Does that mean all the babies (including KMGH management) within range of the KMGH parking lot are being exposed to harmful, sleep depriving, radiation too?

Call me crazy but aren't the members of CARE abusing their children. After all, if they perceive that danger exists for their kids, and they do nothing to correct it, they are abusing their children.
I think that it is time for us to get child services involved in this situation to determine how many CARE members truly believe that their is a health risk.

Originally posted by dr_mal
... (a boy and a girl, both under 4) ... I'll see your boy and girl and raise you an 8-yr-old girl. The conscientious parent I am, we live no where near TV towers, or train tracks, or even trees for that matter (danger of bird droppings) .. a little corn and it could be Kansas.

Anybody going this Wednesday for the last planning staff hearing? I'm in town this week and I'm considering going.

Ernie and Geoff, great quotes in that Rocky article!

I think simply placing large lead boxes over their houses would do the trick! No more radiation and it solves all of our problems. Plus you wouldn't have to paint or buy new siding, ever!

If they want to play outside, lead suits made out of the stuff they cover you with at the dentist office. With all of that weight on you, you would only need to exercise a few minutes to get a normal entire days worth.

Originally posted by Jetlag
I think simply placing large lead boxes over their houses would do the trick! No more radiation and it solves all of our problems. Plus you wouldn't have to paint or buy new siding, ever!

If they want to play outside, lead suits made out of the stuff they cover you with at the dentist office. With all of that weight on you, you would only need to exercise a few minutes to get a normal entire days worth. Is lead poisoning better than being microwaved?

Too bad lead paint is outlawed.....

Originally posted by jpfletcher
I have an antenna on my roof and I live less than 3 miles directly east of the station and I believe that I have maximized the aiming of the antenna on their signal. THe problem is that the picture breaks up every so often and the sound drops out every couple of seconds.

Does any one else have the E86 that is able to receive KMGH?

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/technology/article/0,1299,DRMN_49_1954560,00.html

If you can't even get KMGH 3 miles away with a rooftop antenna, who do they think they are fooling? Sounds like you'd only be able to get them from downtown or closer.

We should all e-mail copies of that article to KMGH to get their attention so they realize how much ad revenue is going to KCNC when we tune them in instead. Better yet, someone that works in the same building or nearby should highlight in bright yellow the "boycott KMGH" text and plaster a copy of that article inside their lobby - maybe management would take notice then. Personally, I think the FCC should step in, force Jeffco to condemn all of Lookout Mountain, kick all those NIBYs out, and put up the mother of all antennas for HDTV. After all, if we relied on localities to do everything, we wouldn't have interstates and other such goodies. I realize the Republicans want local control and all and economies to naturally happen, but the Feds are good for something sometimes.

Anybody happen to know why KCNC's analog broadcast is so loud? I am watching Comcast cable, but whenever I tune to Channel 4, it is so blasting loud compared to all the other channels that I have to turn my receiver sound down 5 decibels!

Are all the Denver HD stations broadcasting correct PSIP times?

I'm looking at getting the Samsung SIRT165 and JVC D-VHS. If the HD station times are accurate, the SIRT165 clock issue is moot, until more stations come on-line at least...

Can anyone get KMGH-DT? I thought some of you were able to watch the Super Bowl. My E86 says that the signal is locked with a steady signal strength of 51, this is after I re-aimed the antenna, because I was getting 44 with peaks of 51. Will getting a bigger antenna help?
Thanks again.

Yes, many people get it but not most.

Go Here: http://bricklin.org/AVSForum/DenverTV.htm and click on DTV Reception Map and then KMGH to see who gets it. You will see that the reception pattern is best towards the SE. Most people have a very good YAGI UHF antenna on their roof to get this. Still, it will break up on occasion.

I get KMGH at a signal strength of 40-42 on a RCA DTC100. I need 35 to get a somewhat reliable picture. It seems like a steady 51 on your E86 should work. A lot depends on where you are located.

And you can go to this Denver Data Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587&highlight=denver+data

this is where we post our results and many gave desccriptions of their equipment, including antenna.

Thanks for the link.
I remebered seeing this, but I could not find it again.

jp,

I seem to remember that the E86 had problems with low power signals and the ability to lock in consistently. You could also look into a Radio Shack attenuator that will help to reduce reflections that can interrupt the signal and the overload of channel 16 overpowering your E86's ability to decode 17, which is much lower power signal.

When KUSA first came on line on 16, many of us reported a drop in signal strength and experienced a few dropouts. Just some additional info for your use.

Jeff

Jeffden,
Thanks for your suggestion. I'll give that a try and let you know how that worked. Would that be the 75 ohm 6 dB inline attenuator? TV/CATV Attenuator. I'm looking at RS' web site right now.

jp,

That is the one.

Jeff

Anyone going tonight? The hearing tonight should wrap up the planning commission process.

Originally posted by markdl
Anyone going tonight? The hearing tonight should wrap up the planning commission process. I'll be curious to find out if the "NO" recommendation is unanimous.

I posted results for Superior, CO in the data thread.

If anyone in Superior or Louisville needs help setting up DTV let me know. I have various antennas and amps to help survey too.

KUSA just announced that the planning commission recommended for the new tower. Vote was 4-3.
Are we closer? Sure hope so.....................

On KUSA-DT News at 10 they announced that the Jefferson County Planning Commission had approved the new tower on Lookout Mountain. They also said the Jefferson County Commissioners should get the case sometime in June.

I was there tonight, and the planning commission did in fact vote to recommend approval of the application 4-3. I'll post more details tomorrow, but needless to say it was really surprising how it turned out. The (S)Care folks were not happy, to say the least.

There's almost no way the BCC will get the case in June, just based on the required time for public notice involved. Pete's best guess at this point is that they'll get the case the week of July 7th and will probably wrap up by the end of August.

More details tomorrow.

That's GREAT news. Very unexpected (at least from me). I should clarify: I'm talking about the fact that one of the local networks even mentioned the tower struggle on the air :D

Law & Order didn't appear to be HD tonight (I only checked once, about 40 minutes into it), but Leno looked good last night in HD (although Yoko Ono didn't benefit from the increased resolution :) )

Assuming they get it wrapped up and approved by the end of August, anybody have a clue when they might get equipment installed and operational on Lookout Mtn.? I would think they'd want to be broadcasting before the November sweeps at the lates.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Assuming they get it wrapped up and approved by the end of August, anybody have a clue when they might get equipment installed and operational on Lookout Mtn.? I would think they'd want to be broadcasting before the November sweeps at the latest. IF it gets approval by the JeffCo BCC then they will have to apply for construction permits, get equipment and materials ordered and build the facility. That process will take at least a year and probably longer. KRMA is estimating up to 18 months to get their Morrison facility built. It will be forth qtr '04 (at the earliest) before you see any LCG DTV signals broadcast from Lookout

Great news BTW. It sounded like the Planning board was going to reject the proposal. Let's hope the BCC agrees with the Planning Board and we can get this whole ugly saga behind us.

OK, lots of things to talk about here this morning...

First of all, here's how the vote came out. Commissioners Cole, Siccardi, Fox and Rossaco voted in favor or recommending approval. Commissioners Steighorst, Bonner and Chairman Knudsen voted to recommend denial.

The tone of just about everyone last night was not as harsh as I thought it would be. Commissioner Rossaco really beat up a couple of speakers, but other than that, it was pretty subdued.

Pete really kicked ass with his answers to questions last night. Big kudos go to him because he was very on top of his game.

I talked to several people before, during and after the meeting. Rick Craddock said that KMGH has their own encoder back up and operational, and if there continue to be audio problems, he would appreciate hearing about them. Don Perez said the reason that all of the NBC HD shows aren't being shown in HD is because they have to have a person sitting at the board watching to manually switch between the recorded feed and the commercials. They're getting it done for Leno, but not for most of the rest of the shows yet. He's trying to get the switching gear in to do this automatically, but it's not here yet. All of the engineers that were there had seen Jetlag's photo representations of the KMGH HD antenna and thought that it was really funny. For those of you that asked last time around, Marv Rockford is a private consultant these days under contract with KCNC to act as the spokesman for the LCG.

I think that the biggest issue with LCGII passing the BCC will be Squaw Mountain. There's no doubt that the Squaw owners will be a part of the process trying to seel their site to the BCC. And if they do, LCG is screwed. There's no way that they are going to move to Squaw, just like there's no way that they will move to Mt. Morrison. It just isn't going to happen. So, if this app goes down, they're done. It'll require an act of god (re: FCC) to make anything further happen.

There was talk among the station engineers that something interesting may be happening soon with KWGN, although I'll wait to hear back from Don before saying anything more than that.

I am truly shocked at the outcome of that vote. Maybe the light at the end of the tunnel is only a small train instead of a big one. Still, put me down in the category of "I'll believe it when I see it" (i.e. when I can pick up OTA from KMGH off of Lookout).

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Assuming they get it wrapped up and approved by the end of August, anybody have a clue when they might get equipment installed and operational on Lookout Mtn.? I would think they'd want to be broadcasting before the November sweeps at the lates.

As I recall when we talked to Pete about that issue he said it would be 9 mo. to a year (depending upon winter weather) before they could be on the air after the start of construction. Most of the building will have to be buried in the mountain. That will require explosive use, significant digging, and painful construction techniques. It will be no small project to get the building finished. The tower is likely the easy part, but both have to be finished in order to move in equipment and get things operational. AFAIK, the would be a 0% chance of anything being on the air by November. Maybe more like November of 2004.

Thanks for the recap, Mark.

Of course, this whole planning process doesn't weigh-in that much IMO. Remember, the planning commission voted 4-3 recommending denial of the BCDC application, and the BCC approved it. Let's hope this is not a mirror image of that.

Originally posted by markdl
OK, lots of things to talk about here this morning...

..... Rick Craddock said that KMGH has their own encoder back up and operational, and if there continue to be audio problems, he would appreciate hearing about them. ........
OK, so somebody pass the word on to Rick that up here in Boulder there continue to be both audio and video problems with their signal.....basically, I still can't find it. I mean, after all, apparently he did ask for feedback.

Actually I had 'planned' to go to the meeting last night, but I wanted to lock on to KMGH OTA first. The receiver was still scanning for it at 10 PM so I gave up on the thought of going...maybe next time.
:mad:

Originally posted by markdl
Don Perez said the reason that all of the NBC HD shows aren't being shown in HD is because they have to have a person sitting at the board watching to manually switch between the recorded feed and the commercials. They're getting it done for Leno, but not for most of the rest of the shows yet. He's trying to get the switching gear in to do this automatically, but it's not here yet.

Yeah, I know I'd rather have local commercials than the show I'm actually interested in in HDTV :rolleyes: I know, I know, the commercials pay the bills, but considering I'm skipping them anyway... :D

When I can pick up KMGH-DT and see KUSA-DT shows IN HDTV I'll start showing up at the hearings. Until then, I'll be cheering from my La-Z-Boy with KRMA-DT or KCNC-DT on the big screen.

edit -- Oh and another point -- if it's not worth paying someone to manually switch between the HDTV feed and local commercials, it can't be that big an impact to not have the local commercials on at all, can it? If we're really big enough to be having an impact of the lack of commercials, surely they'd be willing to hire someone to sit there and manually switch. IMHO.

Wow! Just when I was considering a move to 'Canada', along comes this surprise. Combined with the announcements from E* and their upcoming superdish (see thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254513)), I am going to delay my relocation and see what transpires. Sounds almost as though we may eventually, potentially, someday actually get to see full power HD here. Who'd-a-thunk-it.
the engineers that were there had seen Jetlag's photo representations of the KMGH HD antenna and thought that it was really funny It's nice to be appreciated (sniff! sniff!). BTW, if you liked the photo, you would probably also like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258752).

Originally posted by Jetlag
....BTW, if you liked the photo, you would probably also like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=258752). Very creative....Once again you get an A+. Do you think this stuff up when you're flying...;)

Originally reported by KCNC
The investigation of the operation locations in the ring in Denver were terminated prematurely.

"A Denver media organization, and that's the extent of what we will say, was conducting their own investigation," Suthers said. "We have reason to believe they would publicize that investigation."

NEWS4 has learned authorities are investigating the conduct of KMGH-TV to determine if it may have broken any laws while producing its news reports. KMGH's news director would not comment.


http://news4colorado.com/localnews/local_story_135125635.html

While not related at all to the HDTV issue, I think it shows a pattern on the part of KMGH. If they're not misleading the federal government, they're interfering in the ability for local police to conduct investigations.

Or maybe I'm just super-biased against KMGH lately and looking for any little spot of KMGH-bashing.

Better be careful Dave...we'll start calling you John Jr. :D