I would also be interested in the HDNet Fall Tour 2003.

Originally posted by JMartinko
Please post here or send a PM to let me know if there is enough interest to follow through with setting this up again.
:confused: But of course! :)

I would be up for a HDNet tour as well, depending on time and day.

Thanks
Joe

I'd also be interested in an HDNet tour.

I didn't realize they are local. Where are they located?

HDNet is near the old Stapleton Airport...

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
I'd also be interested in an HDNet tour.

I didn't realize they are local. Where are they located?

Mark Cuban, based in Dallas, is the primary money behind HDNet. There was a Colorado HDTV production company that he bought or merged with to do the actual production. So while HDNet's head office is in Dallas, original HDNet production is based here.

That's one of the reasons Rockies and Avalanche games were on so often on HDNet back in the good ol' days (before ESPN-HD), it's why there were able to do that live HD coverage of Kobe Bryant in Eagle County (has HD come a long way or what :rolleyes: ), the July 4th fireworks on HDNet were from Invesco Field, etc.

You think there is any chance we can talk them into putting up an OTA broadcast antenna like they have done in Dallas? I know we joked about it last year, but maybe they might consider it, wouldn't hurt to ask...

I'd be in again for another HDNet tour. :)

Pete's going to be talking to the powers that be next week to put together some potential dates for a Lookout Mountain tour. I'll keep you all informed on that front.

It seems like the interest is there for the HDNet tour reprise, so I will proceed with the effort to set things up. I will post here in the thread if/when I can firm things up. Don't expect details for a week or so as I plan to be on vacation most of next week. As for questions, the HDNet control center and studio is, as mentioned, located in the old Stapleton Airport area. Once the details are finalized the addresses, times and directions will be posted.

Also, for clarification, long time lurkers as well as new members will be welcomed on the HDNet tour and I assume on the Lookout Tour as well. As a reminder though, you will need to post interest in the thread or in a PM to the tour leader so that a reasonably accurate head count can be maintained.

Originally posted by Jetlag
You think there is any chance we can talk them into putting up an OTA broadcast antenna like they have done in Dallas? I know we joked about it last year, but maybe they might consider it, wouldn't hurt to ask...

I'm sure they could get some land on Lookout zoned pretty quick...

Originally posted by Jetlag
You think there is any chance we can talk them into putting up an OTA broadcast antenna like they have done in Dallas? I know we joked about it last year, but maybe they might consider it, wouldn't hurt to ask...

I actually PMd Mark C. about that once long ago. Needless to say, nothing came from it...

The tour sounds like fun. I couldn't go last time, maybe this time.
I'm also intrerested in the Lookout tour, again assuming I can make the scheduled time. Since I was out of the state on vacation for basically all of July, I'll be in town, but may be forced to work or something :D

Greg

Originally posted by gkanders
....I'll be in town, but may be forced to work or something :D

Greg Darn it. Don't you just hate that......:rolleyes:

Wow... Just an update as promised on antenna placement, huge difference from antenna on side of house at 10 feet above ground to now on top of house 30 feet above ground. ch 4, 6, 9, 31, and 53 rock solid. Cheyenne dissappeared day or two ago, not sure if propagation changed or they stopped transmitting. ch 7 though cant get at all. no sign ch 12 but not sure they are transmitting. radio shack uhf beam antenna pointed towards downtown... not sure if any colo springs stations will come in off the back of the beam... Anyhow, Alpine Electronics did the install, and some other ant work I had also, so thank you for pointing me in there direction!!! Would recommend them for those who need someone to do an install. Castle Rock location here, NE of the Rock itself about 3 miles, elevation approximately 6500 feet so on the higher ground around Castle Rock. Thanks for the support in pointing to an installer!

I'm glad they worked out for you. I saw quite a difference too, in moving my antenna location from inside my garage to the roof. Mine's pointed somewhere in between downtown and Lookout (from Brighton, so it's not pointed that far off of downtown) so I can get a solid lock on the low powers (standard disclaimer: can't get KMGH-DT) and I shouldn't have to repoint it when everybody moves to Lookout.

Originally posted by dr_mal
I'm sure they could get some land on Lookout zoned pretty quick...

Be careful what you wish for.......

I wouldn't put it past KUSA and KMGH to offer to put a new antenna on the LCG tower, which of course, would require them to re-apply the application to Jeffco. Oh, by the way, that would also allow them to stall their installation and investment for another year or two as well. I guess I would keep ideas like that pretty quiet, not that I don't trust KUSA and KMGH. Heaven knows they have always been 'honest' with us.
:rolleyes:

Seriously, if it were to happen, I'd expect Leo Bradley to offer them space on Morrison like he did for the LCG stations. I doubt it would be free, though :)

Originally posted by JMartinko

I wouldn't put it past KUSA and KMGH to offer to put a new antenna on the LCG tower, which of course, would require them to re-apply the application to Jeffco. Oh, by the way, that would also allow them to stall their installation and investment for another year or two as well. I guess I would keep ideas like that pretty quiet, not that I don't trust KUSA and KMGH. Heaven knows they have always been 'honest' with us.
:rolleyes: Heaven forbid....Colorado's "HDTV leader" wouldn't do that would they?? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Geof
Heaven forbid....Colorado's "HDTV leader" wouldn't do that would they?? :rolleyes:

Is cynicism contagious??? I may have infected the thread!! My Bad!
:D

Originally posted by dr_mal
Mark Cuban, based in Dallas, is the primary money behind HDNet. There was a Colorado HDTV production company that he bought or merged with to do the actual production. So while HDNet's head office is in Dallas, original HDNet production is based here.

Is their uplink from here or Dallas? I wonder if the latitude here is better for satellite bounces than Dallas (or doing an additional bounce to Dallas before final uplink).

It's ironic that we have the production for the best HD broadcaster here, yet have been the only major city (excluding NY) without full power OTA HD...

My new CM 4228 antenna was installed today and I am getting 70% reception from KMGH-DT.

Hot:

Congratulations. Now you can watch Alias, NYPD and MNF assuming no major breakups. Not much else on ABC is worth watching.

How close to the channel 7 building are you?

Very cool, Hot! I'm still sitting at a level of about 45 or so on my hipix cards, but I split my signal 3 times too...and it'll get better once the leaves are all gone again.

Dennis - Karen Sisco is going to be on ABC this fall, and it's definitely worth checking out. I saw the pilot for it a couple of months ago, and it's really entertaining.

I have been getting a weak signal from KMGH-DT since October 1999. I live about three miles from Speer and Lincoln. But my signal was always weak and went in and out. During the season when I recorded NYPD Blue to my digital HD-VCR I got breakups. So I order this large CM 4228 and it has done wonders. I can also pick up the independent station in Castle Rock when I point my antenna to the transmitter. I have not had any luck with Cheyenne or Colorado Springs. All the other Denver digital stations come in at 85% or higher leaving my antenna aimed at KMGH-DT. If I use my rotator to point to the other transmitters I get a stronger signal.

I see where those doggone Canadian Evu subs have another couple bones thrown at em HD wise. Discovery HD (Cnd version) and TSN HD (sports channel with simulcast of some of ESPN HD and other stuff, CFL etc), launching today.

Must be nice! ;)

WOW Mike, you had to put the biggest baddest Channel Master on the roof to get 70% and your a whopping 3 miles away.

I guess I would have to contract with NASA or something to get it in the SE metro area.

Shame on you KMGH, you guys should be proud of the effort you have made. If you would have spent the same amount of money on an antenna instead of lawyer fees maybe your signal would get beyond your parking lot.

I'm still waiting for ABC in Springs to come online, I figure I have a better chance of picking it up from 60 miles away than I do from KMGH at 10 miles. Hopefully they will make it before Monday Night Football really gets going.

Later
Joe

Joe:

FWIW, I get KMGH at 40-42 with a CM 4248 Yagi on a 10 ft pole on top of my roof in a sweet spot. I am 11 mi SE. It does drop out at times, but has been OK the last few days. If you have a line of sight, you "might" get it.

BTW, while I was on vacation, I got a letter from Cindy Velasquez thanking me for risking my life by testifying at Jeffco. Oh yeah, she was joined by Walt DeHaven, Roger Odgen and Greg Armstrong. I think all the signatures were done with a signature machine or stamp so I would guess she didn't even know it went out.

Hi Dennis

I've tried, I've got a CM 4248 as well but have had no luck with KMGH. I haven't tried it outside and don't think I am going to. It works great in my attic for CBS, NBC, FOX, and PBS, I get signal strength in the high 80's on all of these. I'm really to the point I could care less about ABC, (I just need to vent once in a while) if I can pick it up out of Springs this year I will never have to watch KMGH again and I am A.O.K. with that.

Later
Joe

Where do you get that cm 4228 antenna, I have an antenna in my attic right now and can pick up pbs, nbc, cbs, and fox. I would just like to try and pick up abc for football season. Also if the antenna doesn't help me at all can I return it?

Go here:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/allant.htm

Yes, they will let you return it. The 4248 Yagi comes in two pieces as a 3023. A neighbor of mine tried a 4228 and it did not work as well as my 4248 for KMGH. With such a crummy signal, you will need all the help you can get. IE.. on a pole on your roof in a sweet spot. Your attic will probably not work.

Originally posted by markdl
I got a call from Pete late last week asking if the AVS group would be interested in taking a tour of one of the transmitter sites up on Lookout. While this is in the early stages of planning, I told him that I'd be interested in going up there to take a look. Would there be interest if the scheduling could be worked out?
Just got back from spending a week in Washington. Yes. I would be interested in any and all tours.

Originally posted by Sportfantic
Where do you get that cm 4228 antenna, I have an antenna in my attic right now and can pick up pbs, nbc, cbs, and fox. I would just like to try and pick up abc for football season. Also if the antenna doesn't help me at all can I return it?

I got it here (http://www.consumer-direct.com/detail.cfm?vpartno=4228) and had it shipped FedEx Ground and it was here in three days.

Dennis - you got more thanks from them than I did...

Pete and Fred were great, but I haven't heard word one blip from any of the stations this time around for efforts on their behalf...

Of course, I didn't do it for them, but it would still be nice to get an acknowledgement form letter from them.

Originally posted by markdl
Dennis - you got more thanks from them than I did...

Pete and Fred were great, but I haven't heard word one blip from any of the stations this time around for efforts on their behalf...

Of course, I didn't do it for them, but it would still be nice to get an acknowledgement form letter from them. Well since KUSA is "Colorado's HDTV leader" I'm sure they led the charge and didn't have to rely upon anyone to get that proposal passed by JeffCo.:rolleyes:

<cough, cough>

In reality, you should have gotten a plaque for all your effort...

Since I may be the only one who got a letter, I'll pass it along. Maybe I got it because it was suggested I would need the sherrif to escort me out of there!

On behalf of the lake Cedar Group, we would like to thank you for your support of our tower consolidation proposal. We appreciate you taking the time to participate in the public approval process and to share your opinions with the Jefferson County Commissioners. Clearly, your efforts have made a significant impact.

More importantly, we applaud your contribution to what will ultimately be a good thing for Colorado and the Front Range -- the creation of a more visually pleasing mountain backdrop for Jefferson County, and the advancement of digital television and free over-the-air television to the Denver metro area. This is a victory for all of us.

Again, thank you for your time and support.

Sincerely,


Mr. Walt DeHaven
Ms. Cindy Velasquez
Mr. Roger Ogden
Mr. Greg Armstrong

cc:

Fred Niehaus
Marv Rockford
Pete McNally

I got one too.

On the one hand, I thought it was a very nice gesture to mail those of us who testified a little note. Very nice. But why did they have to use scans of the signatures? I can appreciate that station GMs are busy people, but how many people testified in support of the tower? Maybe 30?

In general, though, I've been happy with how the stations (especially KRMA and KCNC, surprise surprise) have treated us. The scanned signatures just seemed a little tacky. But I appreciate the gesture.

Originally posted by Hot
I have been getting a weak signal from KMGH-DT since October 1999. I live about three miles from Speer and Lincoln. But my signal was always weak and went in and out. During the season when I recorded NYPD Blue to my digital HD-VCR I got breakups. So I order this large CM 4228 and it has done wonders.

Thanks. That answers my question. No hope in hell to get KMGH 6 miles SE w/indoor antenna. I don't have line-of-sight and there are some huge condo towers at Leetsdale & Mississippi. Is all DTV line-of-sight or is this only because of the temporary low power? Guess I'll wait for the Lookout towers or DPVRs to come out (whichever is first) before going digital. Not that there's much ABC programming worth watching anyway. There's only 2 MNF Broncos regular season games this fall. I only care to watch MNF or even the Superbowl only if the Broncos are in it.

It's hard to say with KMGH. I live about 20 miles south of downtown and I get it just fine.

I got the letter also. Thought it was a nice gesture. At least it showed they did appreciate our testimony. Must admit I was a little surprised. A thanks is always nice. I have seen so many cases where even a thanks would be nice only to be disappointed.

I didn't get one :(

And I thought it was my fabulous testimony that was the deciding factor ;)

Just a theory -- Ernie and Mark -- didn't you guys go with the LCG guys for a little celebration the night the vote happened? Maybe they wanted to give those of us who couldn't go a little token of appreciation.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
There's only 2 MNF Broncos regular season games this fall.

Since 9News is "leading the way in HDTV" won't the Bronco's preseason game tonight be in HDTV? (said in a sarcastic tone.)

Michael

I couldn't go, I had a commitment. It's no biggie.
But ya' know... they could still send me a 6-pack!

My goodness...letting our thread drop to page 4...

Lookout Mountain Tour Information

Message from Pete tonight:

Friends,

We’d like to invite all of you and all our supporters at the AVS Forum to a tour of the broadcast facilities on Lookout Mt. We’ll provide a tour of the existing analog facilities and can show you where the new tower and building will be located.

Please meet us at KCNC”s site at 5:30 on Thursday, August 28th. We will provide food.

Will have somebody at the driveway entrance on Cedar Lake Road to flag you down.

Oh yeah, an RSVP would be nice so we can prepare enough food.

Thanks,
Peter McNally, Principal
The Grinnell Group

Map attached. Will provide more detailed directions later on. Please post here and RSVP to Pete at pete@grinnellgroup.com if you plan to attend.

David Layne at KCNC forwarded me an email from a CBS affiliate with pointers to satellite photos before and after the eastern blackout. I found them interesting so I am passing along the email. Besides, we keep getting relegated to pages 2, 3 or 4 without any posts!


-----Original Message-----
From: Seekins, Mark B
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:06 AM
To: @Stations Engineering
Subject: FW: From NASA - photos of the N.E. during Blackout 2003

The night before the blackout: http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081403-20hrsbefore-text.jpg

7 hrs. into the blackout: http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081503-7hrsafter-text.jpg

Mark Seekins

Chief Engineer

WWHO-TV

CBS/Viacom Television

Last night, I was able to get a good lock on KMGH for MNF. There were hardly any breakups for me. FWIW, the picture and 5.1 sound were awesome. It was a very good production. The game was poor at the end so I turned it off, but overall I was impressed with ABC's broadcast in 720p. Now, if only KMGH would upgrade their toy transmitter so more than 20 people could see it! They should really be ashamed of their crummy attitude towards the Denver public. There is a thread on the MNF game in the Programming Forum if anyone is interested.

A related note. I have observed that sometimes the KMGH signal strength is slightly higher after switching channels a few times. Normally, I get 40, but if I play around switching back and forth between channels, sometimes I get a signal of 45-46 which gives me a solid lock. I haven't been able to figure out the logic of this or how to make it work consistently, but for MNF, it is worth the switching effort to eventually get a better signal.

This is on an RCA DTC-100 inside a F38310 TV. Anybody else lucky enough to get KMGH see anything like this?

Hmmm, I usually get about 46-48% on my DTC-100, last night I got home at about 9:30, and my signal was like 28%. I will try the channel switch trick next time and let you know if it works. I thought it might have been humidity and cloud related.

I heard it was raining at Mile High Stadium during the Broncos practice most of yesterday evening. Don't know if it was raining by KMGH, but SE a few miles at my house, the rain and hail was over and the roads dry by 6 pm.

Question, wasn't yesterday the day that the re-zoning for the Denver HDTV Tower was to be approved formally via resolution by the JCCs? Any info on that?

Thanks,
Don

I guess nobody went except (S)Care to maybe try some last minute BS sob-story!

I emailed Pete to find out what happened.

Pete emailed me back and the JeffCo Commissioners did do the final signing of the application - YooHoo!

I guess we should also start the clock on the obligitory (S)Care lawsuit.

He also mentioned they filed for the Site Plan Review, the final step before the Building Permit.
He still feels they will have their final Building Permit finalized by years end.

Originally posted by santellavision
Pete emailed me back and the JeffCo Commissioners did do the final signing of the application - YooHoo!

I guess we should also start the clock on the obligitory (S)Care lawsuit.

He also mentioned they filed for the Site Plan Review, the final step before the Building Permit.
He still feels they will have their final Building Permit finalized by years end.

"I thought the KMGH lawyers told us they would already be on the air by then?????
:D
(Just thought I would beat Ron and everyone else to the punch with the comment)

Just got back in town from vacation. Still don't go to work till Mon. so I have a few days to play and get my kid back in school (he may need some serious pushing as he is not terribly thrilled about his vacation being over). Looks like it has been pretty quiet here since the thread apparently slipped to page 4. I suppose there won't be much to talk about for the next year or so other than the obligatory law suit from (S)CARE. We may have to keep up with the quips etc. just to keep the thread alive. Darn, and I so hate to criticize KUSA (Our leader in HD) and KMGH (rumored to already be on the air).

I'm looking forward to HDNet tonight -- they're showing the pilot for the ABC series "Thieves" starring John Stamos and Melissa George. Apparently it was previously aired in HD, but for some reason, I never saw it.

Too bad it had such a short run.

Originally posted by markdl

Lookout Mountain Tour Information

Message from Pete tonight:



... Please meet us at KCNC?s site at 5:30 on Thursday, August 28th. We will provide food...

... Oh yeah, an RSVP would be nice so we can prepare enough food. Map attached. Will provide more detailed directions later on. Please post here and RSVP to Pete at pete@grinnellgroup.com if you plan to attend. [/B]

Well, I would like to attend. As I am an MIS person, my supposed off time is not always my own. Also, I could probably get out of here that day by around 4:00 PM. Without seeing some more comprehensive directions it is hard for me to tell if I can get from Iliff and I-225 to the transmitter location by 5:30. So I would like to give a tentative yes to the invitation, pending any emergencies here that may arise and seeing actual location access maps.


Phil P.

From: Pete McNally [pete@grinnellgroup.com ]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:42 PM

Guys,

Here are the directions. Feel free to bring a spouse/friend. Just give me a heads up if you would.

From Interstate 70 take Exit # 256. Turn right on Grapevine Road. Go a few yards and take a left on U.S. 40. After about 1/10th of a mile, take a right on Paradise Rd. Go about 0.4 miles and then take a left on Charros Dr. Go 0.6 miles and take a right on N. Lookout Mountain Rd. After about 1.4 miles, take a right on Panorama Dr. Take your first left onto Cedar Lake Rd. We’ll meet at Channel 4 which is about ½ mile down Cedar Lake Rd. The driveway is just between houses numbered 21139 and 21109. The actual site address is 21119 but I don’t believe it is posted.

Peter McNally, Principal
The Grinnell Group (www.grinnellgroup.com)

I got driving directions from Yahoo (identical to Pete's directions) and it estimated 50 minutes from my house which is at Belleview and Havana.

Hi All,

I just looked at a few maps. Just for clarification:

"After about 1.4 miles, take a right on Panorama Dr. Take your first left onto Cedar Lake Rd. We?ll meet at Channel 4 which is about ? mile down Cedar Lake Rd. "

It looks like Panorama Drive is a loop...if you take the first right that you come to on Panorama it is a bit longer to Cedar Lake Rd., and you take a RIGHT there. It looks to me like Pete's directions refer to the SECOND right on Panorama. Please correct me if this is not accurate!

Dennis,
I wonder if Yahoo takes into consideration rush hour traffic when the give you an estimate? In any case I am about 10 to 15 minutes further away than you. I figure 90 minutes from the time I leave here at that time of day will be iffy. In any case, if I can actually get out of here at 4 I think I will give it a try.

I used one of the addresses that Pete gave for an end point. It says to take 225 to 70. That can be a brutal drive at 4...but Yahoo says 41 minutes. I am sure they are talking about at the legal speed limit and not the rush hour 5 mph.

:D :mad:

Phil P.

Have we heard any more about the HDNET tour? I may have missed it if it was discussed, but have also been out of town.
Jeff

Originally posted by jeffden
Have we heard any more about the HDNET tour? I may have missed it if it was discussed, but have also been out of town.
Jeff

No news on the HDNet tour as yet. I am on vacation (not in the office) this week and will make contact with them again next week when I am back. When I left last week they were in the process of getting approval from the 'mother ship' and the upper levels. I will firm up things as soon as I hear. I requested a Sept. or Oct. date, so it will not be for a while yet. I will DEFINITELY post information here several times. I also do not want to overlap preparations for the Lookout tour as it will be too confusing. Just hang in there for a week or two and lets get a good turnout for the Lookout Tour first, so we can all congratulate Pete on a 'Job Well Done'.

Before Ron posted the directions I figured I was going to take 6th Avenue to Golden and go straight up Lookout Mtn. Rd. The only map with details of that area doesn't extend details west of Golden, so I had no idea of how to get there from I-70 instead. This route sounds simpler - stay on Lookout Mtn. Rd. and only 2 turns. However I was wondering how many miles on Lookout Mtn. Rd. to Panorama Dr. and tried Mapquest. Strangely, even when using Golden as the starting point, Mapquest says to drive all the way down 6th Ave. to I-70 in a big loop instead of the more direct 19th St. / Lookout Mtn. exit. Can anybody familar with the area confirm that we can still drive from 6th Ave. on Lookout Mtn. Road all the way up through to Panorama Dr.? It may be a windier drive, but harder to get lost, plus fun in a sports car. ;)

Dennis,
posting at 4AM? Are you on a business trip or do you have RF-induced insomnia from being so close to the towers whilest testifying?

Yes you can go the route you described. I went that way when I took my own self-guided tour of the towers two years ago. I've attached a map that might help. You won't get lost. Keep in mind that the whole Panorama Drive loop is about a 3 minute walk, so it doesn't matter which one you come in on.

Lookout Mtn Rd is a fun drive - I think I'm going to take my Bricklin (http://bricklin.org/Ron_Auger.htm).

If anybody's really interested in seeing my HT system after, email me: santella@frii.com if you'd like to come over. I'm near the towers.

Ernie

Hey Guys, new member checking in. I am just getting into the HDTV market, and its interesting reading about the many problems facing HD broadcast in Denver. I would have figured that a major metropolitan area such a Denver would have more complete coverage.

It is great to see such a strong local presense on the net supporting a worthy cause. Keep up the good work guys!

My HT setup is meager compared to what many of you guys are running, but I always enjoy reading about the high dollar systems. I can dream can't I?

Anyway, I just wanted to say hi. I am still reading and learning alot about HDTV in Denver. There is almost too much information to sift through!

Maxximtl, you're where I was 2 years ago. Best advice, read everything, and then ask questions. To read about all of the struggles we've gone through here, there are now 266 pages in this thread, somewhere around this many in the part 2 thread that was closed a year or so ago (or maybe a couple of years - it was still active when I started reading I'm pretty sure), and then the 1st thread may still be in the archives somewhere. Should only take you a month or so to read through everything... :D Welcome!

Originally posted by Maxximtl
Hey Guys, new member checking in. I am just getting into the HDTV market,............
My HT setup is meager compared to what many of you guys are running, but I always enjoy reading about the high dollar systems. I can dream can't I?

Anyway, I just wanted to say hi. I am still reading and learning alot about HDTV in Denver. There is almost too much information to sift through!

Maxximti
Welcome to the Denver thread. Don't worry about 'gear envy', we all suffer from it. We all had to start from ground zero. The more you buy the more you want, and no system is ever really finished, they are just 'tolerable' until you can afford the next upgrade. It's a fun game to play though.

If you can make it, try to get to the Lookout tour next week. We all chat at the get together, and there is a good chance you can meet someone living close to you who can give you advice. It is a great way to network and will get you acquainted really fast.

PS
Don't be afraid to ask any question here, there is a tremendous resource of HD knowledge here as well as real time experience with a lot of equipment. If you don't want to ask in the thread use the PM method and ask someone directly offline.

Yeah, and Pete said there'd be food, too :D

Hi everyone,

I don't post much but have been watching this thread for a couple of years now. My wife and I will be attending provided I can get off of work a little early. So put us in for a strong maybye and I will confirm on Monday. Hope to see you guys there!

Brian

I made a trip up to Lookout Mountain this morning. Even with the excellent directions provide by Pete I figured I would still get lost. Sure enough I did. I took the 1st Panorama Dr. I came to. Bad choice (in all I saw 3 Panorama Dr's from Lookout Rd). Should have paid more attention to the 1.4 miles. Addition information take the Panorama Dr. that has overhead radiation power lines.
The actual address is posted along with a rezoning poster.
Here is another map. Pretty much the same.

That's why I like the route from Golden off 6th Ave. According to my map (1996 - hopefully hasn't changed with new developments), Panorama Dr. is the 1st left off of Lookout Mtn. Rd. after a long ways without any turnoffs.

I received an email from Pete McNally. He was concerned that some AVS folks were going to meet at KCNC at 5:30PM on this Thursday. Do not go to KCNC. Just to clarify things:

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Meet at Lookout Mtn site, Cedar Lake Road
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5:30PM August 28th

See previous posts for maps and/or directions to the tower site.

Looks like KRMA-DT is back on 80-3, and I didn't even rescan. I thought they had the remapping thing figured out -- did I miss a post about it?

Has anyone that can get KMGH checked out tonight's MNFootball game? I have it taping and was going to watch later, but wondered if anyone had looked in on it yet.

Jeff

I had trouble with the signal tonight, more than usual that is. I didn't have anything on 17-1, but I got HD on 17-2 and SD on 17-3. I wonder if the multicasting (right term?) made reception more difficult?

I also had more trouble than usual with KMGH for tonights game, the signal would not lock, not even watchable. Usually I can watch with some sound drop outs and a few picture glitches but tonight was especially bad. Very frustrating I wish KMGH would get with it...

I was able to watch the game on my hipix. My Dish 6000 wouldn't lock on the signal, but the hipix did. The HD was generally very nice, with occasional picture breakups, and a lot of sparklies on red backgrounds. The yellow first down line caused some interesting side effects whenever it intersected a foot or a leg, or whatever. First time I've seen yellow sparklies. All in all, a good presentation.

The picture for me on MNF was superb, including the crowd noise and ambiance. Too bad they didn't play very well, especially the defense.

I was there at the game!!

I gave away my tickets (hey, it's pre-season, the games don't matter, there are plenty of regular seson games left), and watched the ABC HD version. The picture was very clean although the surround sound didn't do much for me. It was 720p, and as usual, not up to CBS standards, but still sweet. I am very much looking forward to MNF this year more than in the past two years.

BTW, current plans are to attend the tour on Thursday "AT LOOKOUT" assuming I can find the place. See yall there.

No MNF for me here in the southern suburbs. Wouldn't lock at all.

I am in for the Lookout tour and the HDNet tour. Do I need to email anyone on these?

For the Lookout Mountain Tour on Thursday:

If you haven't already, please email Pete McNally at pete@grinnellgroup.com to let him know that you are planning on attending. They need an approximate head count for food purposes.

And, of course remember that we are meeting on Lookout Mountain, not at KCNC or anywhere else at 5:30pm. Looking forward to seeing you all there! :)

I felt compelled to send another email to KMGH regarding their lack of HD support. I've been reading the posts on the Programming forum about the MNF game last night and was struck by the irony of being located in the local market of the broadcast but being one of the only markets that cannot see the HD presentation. Exactly how hard can it be to increase the signal strength for 12 - 18 months while we are waiting for the tower construction to be completed on Lookout Mtn. The arrogance of KMGH is astounding and disturbing.

I expect to show up at the Lookout bash but may change my mind between now and then. I guess I'm in the "I really don't care about this any longer" mode. Between KMGH's pathetic management and KUSA's self serving "HDTV Leader" crappola they have reaffirmed I will just never watch these channels. I cannot stomach their crap and refuse to dwell on those jerkoffs any longer.

Then the thought of KWGN wiping out a perfectly good KCNC signal has me further wondering what the hell I am getting worked up about.

Have a nice day....

Originally posted by JMartinko
watched the ABC HD version. The picture was very clean although the surround sound didn't do much for me. It was 720p, and as usual, not up to CBS standards, but still sweet.

I thought 720p is supposed to be superior to 1080i, especially for motion. Or is your set converting 720p to 1080i?

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
I thought 720p is supposed to be superior to 1080i, especially for motion. Or is your set converting 720p to 1080i?
Several of us discussed this around page 259-260 and a lot of it comes down to the fact that the motion artifacts from interlaced aren't that pronounced and most of us have sets or STB's that convert from 720p to 1080i anyways. Most people will see a better picture from a 1080i source on the equipment they have.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
I thought 720p is supposed to be superior to 1080i, especially for motion. Or is your set converting 720p to 1080i?
My Mits 65907 does not have 720p capability, so I have to have my Unity Motion convert to 1080i for display. We have had several short discussions in this thread as well as long discussion in other threads about the affects of this conversion process, but it seems pretty universal that for most folks the 720p programs never look quite as crisp as 1080i after the conversion. Since I haven't seen any motion artifacts in 1080i sports programs (which is where 720p is supposed to stand out), I can't really say 720p is better. It is also safe to say I am not working from a huge data base of examples here. There doesn't seem to be very many people with the ability to display both formats in order to do a sound comparison.

Geof
I sure agree with you on being fed up with the entire process. I am sick of those KUSA adds which claim they are leading the way. I also have to question the ones which talk about the large amount of NBC programming in HD and especially with the add that says we can see the 2004 Olympics from NBC in HD. They can't really expect the LCG tower to be in operation by then, and to make that claim with the LPT on the Republic Building is misleading at best.

Originally posted by JMartinko
... we can see the 2004 Olympics from NBC in HD. They can't really expect the LCG tower to be in operation by then, and to make that claim with the LPT on the Republic Building is misleading at best.

Probably not, but I would think that many people could get it through Comcast by then. I'm a satellite guy myself, but I'd still like to see better availability in the area.

I Must say that MNF on KMGH-DT looked pretty unimmpressive to me. Much of the screen was black, with little black sparklies. Especially where the black first down line intersected anything black on the screen. Must be that I am getting it in the 0p format. At least I can say I saw no motion artifacts.

Thanks for nottin' KMGH! :mad:

I am sick of those KUSA adds which claim they are leading the way. It's so utterly preposterous and bogus that I cannot understand how anyone can take what they say with any credibility whatsoever. I mean I now equate them with the equally bogus SCARE propaganda. There is no way I could ever listen to their newscasts and come away thinking I heard factual information. They are lying to the populace every time they air those ads.

Originally posted by RonAuger
I Must say that MNF on KMGH-DT looked pretty unimmpressive to me. Much of the screen was black, with little black sparklies. Especially where the black first down line intersected anything black on the screen. Must be that I am getting it in the 0p format. At least I can say I saw no motion artifacts.

Thanks for nottin' KMGH! :mad:

The first down marker was a yellow line. I was actually suprised to see it, as I don't think anyone else has done that before in HD. There has to be some SERIOUS computing power taking the HD picture and adding that to the screen in real time. Congratulations to ABC (note I did not say KMGH). I had a clean picture (i.e. no sparklies) the entire game, it sounds like KMGH was the source of your problems. Who could have seen that coming????? Maybe if the game had been on KUSA, our self proclaimed "HD Leader"???
:rolleyes:

No KMGH-DT last night here in Littleton either. I could not get a lock. The wind was blowing the wrong way!! :(

IwantHD:

I appreciate your desire to do something. But, I have emailed them many times, sent letters to the FCC twice and to Ms. Velasquez three times with nary a response other than from a lawyer when 8 of us sent a letter.

So. if you want to help, I suggest you make an appointment with Ms. Velasques and go see her in her office and try to shame her into fixing what is a deplorable situation. I am convinced email and letter writing just goes in file 13. I bet there were no more than a maximum of 50 people in all of Denver with an OTA antenna that could pick up KMGH with a consistently good picture.

It looks like I will be able to make the Lookout tour on Thursday. I sent Pete my RSVP.

Not trying to fan any flames here, but I'm kind of glad that KUSA-DT is at least promoting HDTV, even though the leadership tag line isn't justified. But, if they are among the first to get widespread non-degraded cable distribution, I won't take issue with them "spinning" that into a leadership claim.

Mark

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
IwantHD:

I appreciate your desire to do something. But,.......if you want to help, I suggest you make an appointment with Ms. Velasques and go see her in her office and try to shame her into fixing what is a deplorable situation........

Actually that might not be a bad idea. Perhaps we should think about the idea of as many of us as possible getting together and going to KMGH 'en masse' to meet with Ms. V. It seems like an idea worth kicking around on Thursday. I don't think it would change her mind, but every bit of pressure helps. In addition we could then again write letters to the FCC describing how we were 'ignored' in face to face meetings. I hope Pete will be able to shed some light on the build out schedule on Thursday. Just some food for thought........

I live in Colorado Springs, and am getting into HD. Hell will freeze over before the cable company has it, and apparently there are real issues with the OTA signals according to this thread.

With that in mind, which is a better investment, Dish or DirectTV? Trying to read through all the hatred on the Dish and DirectTV threads is giving me a headache.

Apparently Dish is really screwing their customers, but has the better signal. DirectTV has a worse signal, but has more/better programming.

Or is OTA still an option?

I too had problems with KGMH signal - but the black specks were covering the whole picture here in fort collins. Hard for me to be sympathetic to you Denver guys - We don't get jack here.

Reggie

I am looking forward to seeing many of you at the LCG tour tonight. :)

Well, I just got back into SFO after 6 days zipping around the Pacific. True to my name I'm dragging A** but will still try to make it tonight. Ernie, are you still having folks over? If so, would you welcome 2 tiny dogs that have not seen me in a week (I promise they won't eat anyone). Finally, anyone have an estimate for drive time from central DEN?

Jetlag - I figure it'll take me 20 to 25 minutes to get there from 6th and Sheridan, if that helps.

See you guys in a little while! :)

It took me 20 minutes to get from Kalamath & 6th to Indiana St. exit on Tuesday at 5 pm, so I figure another 10-15 minutes to get to Golden and up Lookout Mtn. Rd?

God, you guys drive slooooooow!

P.S. I just saw Deb at King Soopers and I invited her to the party. She said she'd bring some Tequila. ;)

Originally posted by santellavision
God, you guys drive slooooooow!

P.S. I just saw Deb at King Soopers and I invited her to the party. She said she'd bring some Tequila. ;)

Oh. Oh. Maybe I better change my attire.

Thanks for being such gracious hosts last night!

Although traffic and errands and new tires on the car made me late and I missed alot of converstion, I'm glad I didn't miss the food. I didn't miss John Martinkos suggestion to Rick Craddock that he sneak us on Cindy's schedule somehow so we could show up at KMGH en masse and complain about their temporary setup and suggest some improvements. When is that scheduled for John? :) It was great eating grilled burgers on the hill with that great view. And special thanks to Paul Deeth for the tour of the tranmitter bldg (that stuff is right up our alley) and the useful inside information ;)

Ernie, seeing your setup has given me renewed enthusiam to finish drywalling! You really did a great job and the image and sound is stunning. Be sure to thank Sharon for putting up with your geeky friends!

It was great seeing y'all (again, for some of you). We should do that quarterly or semi-annually. OK, who's house is next?!

Originally posted by RonAuger
We should do that quarterly or semi-annually. OK, who's house is next?!

YOURS! :D

You guys are welcome to come over to my place, although it's not nearly as impressive a setup as Ernie's is! Of course, I could show you what KMGH looks like in HD, but I now have to say that rear projection definitely doesn't approach a nice LCD front projector.

Thanks to Pete for putting last night together for us, even though he wasn't able to make it out from the cornfields, and thanks to everyone who came. It was a good turnout! And of course, thanks to Ernie for allowing us to invade his basement for awhile. :)

I am bummed I had to miss Ernie's house. I got a call on my cell and had to get home to help my daughter with a problem. And, yes, the cell phone worked up on Lookout just fine.

Thanks to LCG for the thank you to us.

Originally posted by markdl
Originally posted by RonAuger
We should do that quarterly or semi-annually. OK, who's house is next?! YOURS! :D
How about this w/e? How's your skills at hanging 'rock and taping/mudding? ;)

I'll definately have a party for AVS when I'm done. (little inside joke there -- one is never done! :D )

Ditto to the LCG folks, especially KCNC for the great tour, and yes thanks to KUSA and KMGH for sending representatives to answer questions as well. (Did I really say that last remark???:rolleyes: )

And thanks a lot to Ernie for showing us his set up. Like Mark, I must admit his projector puts my Mits 65" RPTV to shame. I too would be willing to have folks over to my place some time (perhaps for MNF for those who don't get it in HD) , but I would have to warn you, after seeing and hearing Ernie's set up, mine is not as sweet. On the other hand, I have some serious 'flexibility' on reception with my satellite gear which may be of interest to those of you looking for alternatives. I don't use Dish or Direct TV, but have a pretty serious antenna/receiver farm going and get a 'wide variety' of HD channels. The neighbors claim it looks more like a CIA listening post in the back yard. (As Jetlag says) Although..........

Like everyone else, I have plans on upgrading the 'farm' in the near future for some additional Canadian content from Star Choice (likely a second 1 meter small dish), and have another new MPEG HD satellite receiver on order (that will give me 6 units available for either stripping HD data streams for pass through or actual video decoding of HD signals). (Hey, when you have to provide your own service, you need some back-up, right!)

Now for the important stuff.....
After the dust settles from the get together, I think we should kick around the idea of a 'face-to-face' with Cindy V. at KMGH. The information we heard last night on the cost of KCNC's Republic set-up sure doesn't match the 'costs' tossed around by the KMGH folks. In addition, I think it is clear from what we heard, that the new tower is at least two years away from being operational, which really begs the question does 80% of metro Denver have to live without ABC HD for two more years.

(OK, you knew I couldn't be that nice to KMGH in a post without bringing up the other side of the issue.)

It was great to see you guys and Ernie's set up was awsome!!!
You are welcome at my place, but you may roll on the floor laughing at my 61" 4x3 Sony. It does give me 55" HDTV wide screen though!

A big thanks to LCG and the stations for the tour. :D

Thanks guys for the nice words! I've put a lot of hard work into the theatre. Ask Sharon, who's had to put up with the drywall dust, paint and re-paint (we both didn't like the color the first time) and the drilling! Her running joke to her friends is... 'If he drilled one more hole, the whole house is coming down!"

And my thanks too, to the LCG gang for the warm hospitality, tour, info and great grub. Wait a minute... I'm not so sure it was the warm hospitality, maybe it was the RF that gave me that warm feelin' ;)

And I second what Ron mentioned, Man, what a great location for a picnic at sunset!

Speaking of RF, my pups mysteriiously gained 30 pounds last night, hmmmmm....

It was great meeting everyone and I enjoyed seeing your setup Ernie, nice job!

Once I finish my addition will try to get those interested over to see MNF on the 92" Firehawk/VP-12S1 combo (KMGH no less!).

I'll add another round of thanks to the LCG folks and to Ernie and Sharon. I agree that the view from the KCNC tower at dusk was worth the trip in itself. I really enjoyed meeting everyone. Another 2 or 3 times and I'll actually have a chance of remembering everyone. Then add the information and the chance to ask questions of Rich Craddock and the tour was a all-around great time.
Ending the evening seeing Ernie's FP setup was the icing on the cake. That setup is sweet and it showed me that I don't have to worry so much about black levels and rainbows. When I look at the FP forums, I sometimes get the feeling those things are really huge issues, but if I could get an FP image half that good, I'd never come out :).

Thanks again everyone. Now looking forward to that HDNet tour!

Greg

I also would like to really thank LCG and especially KCNC and KUSA for inviting us for a tour and answering all of the questions posed.

Someone said they had a KMGH rep there ??? I missed meeting that person if that is true. I wish I had the opportunity to ask that person a few things.

Ernie, I apologize for not making it to take you up on your generous offer. Had we got done a bit earlier with the second group tour, I would have likely done that. I simply ran up against the wall on a couple of things I had to get done. It sounds like I missed experiencing a superb system!

I also heard some numbers from both KCNC and KUSA about costs for temp transmitters at Republic. I wonder if we might mention that to KMGH at some point. Were those numbers also provided to the FCC ? I wonder if they would care about the truth at all ?

Anyway, nice to meet all of you that I did, and hope to meet the rest of you sometime down the road. Also looking forward to an HDNET tour.

Phil P.

For those that are interested, I called Comcast today. The person I talked to said they have not rolled out HD yet, but it will be soon. He said they have NBC and PBS working, but are trying to get at least 2 more channels before rolling it out. He did say that he personally had talked to a couple people who called about getting MNF in HDTV and that he has sent emails internally to push for KMGH.

So nothing really new, but that's the latest.

For those of us that did not attend the Lookout Mtn. tour, could somone please summarize what information was provided regarding tower construction, completion, and any insights the stations gave on future HD plans (especially KMGH)? Thanks in advance!

LCG is in the building permit stage, which involves presenting exact samples of materials/plans for construction. Construction is still slated to begin next spring. Completion is still a question. My date for the pool is April 1, 2005.

KMGH still has no plans on moving/altering their power on their LP transmitter. (Even to the light-hearted harrassing we all gave Mr. Craddock!)

For all those (S)Careians still reading this thread (and hanging on to your hopes) It was interesting that one of KCNC's engineers just bought the house right next door to the X-mitter. He isn't worried about losing any sleep!

Paul Deeth may have been being overly optimistic, but he said that they would start building this year, and they would be transmitting the end of December 2004. He said they had the tower designer/fab all lined up contractors for the building ready to go, transmitters speced out and ready to order. He said if the winter was mild, it would be no problem to make 12/30/2004. We will see...

Many thanks to LCG and Ernie for Thursday evening. Ernie's setup has gotten me fired up again about getting my basement finished (nothing done yet, just a lot of measuring)!

I realized that I never submitted my entry for the tower pool, so I will submit March 11, 2005 in honor of my son's 6th birthday! Let's hope for that mild winter!

Maybe I can even get my basement finished in time for the new signals coming off of Lookout!

Steve

Oh Yeah, I forgot as well. May 25, 2005

Spending part of this morning cleaning out some old files in my cabinet to clear out some space. I came across an old letter I sent to the FCC, the local networks and cc'd to Mark Udall (Sept. 15, 2000) complaining about the slow or non-effort by the local stations to get their HDTV tower built and get on the air. I also found a letter from Mark Udall's office responding to my original letter as well as a reply from the FCC. Boy, things sure have changed since then. :mad: Oh sure, none of the networks are on the air from Lookout, but at least now instead of getting replies from Mark and the FCC, we get them from the lawyers at KMGH. It's great to see all the progress in the area in HDTV since 2000, and just think, the stations should be on the air some time in mid 2005. No wonder I finally flamed out on the whole subject this summer.

Who says things never change. I guess they are correct, 'time does fly when your having fun'.
:D

Hi All,
I picked up a Zenith SAT520 for $449 from Sound Track yesterday (CC price match). It's an upgrade from a DTC-100. It does much better at locking KMGH.
My question is, it's not pulling the channel guides for KMGH and KUSA. It added 7-1 as the channel for KMGH, but it's actually on 17-1. KUASA shows up as 9-1. My DTC100 pulled a schedule for KUSA.
Thank you in advance.

I know for a fact that KMGH isn't sending PSIP guide data - I asked Rick that question last week up on Lookout. Don't know about KUSA...I don't have a receiver that can do anything with it anyways.

Greg,
Regarding KUSA's guide data, I see the same symptoms. The guide data appears on my DTC-100 (equiv.) but does not appear on my Sony HD200 (same unit as your Zenith SAT520). The DTC-100 only showed guide data, on the OTA-side, for KUSA and no other OTA DTV channels. And KUSA data wasn't consistent, sometimes it didn't pick it up. I just assumed it was because I am on the fringe. Of course, now on my new Sony, I show 3 KUSA's --
9 KUSA &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- Ant. / Analog - has guide data (probably cloned from DirecTV DN9) 9 DN9 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - DirecTV &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - has guide data from DirecTV
9.1 KUSADT - Ant. / Digital - no guide data

I put up a 160" RS UHF/VHF antenna last week before the Monday Night Bronco game and I am now getting KMGH with a 65 signal strength.
I live about 2.5 directly miles east of KMGH. All of the other channels come in with a signal strength of 100. There are some large trees between my house and KMGH as well as that office building on 6th and Grant.

I know for a fact that KMGH isn't sending PSIP guide dataProbably because they are barely sending out HDTV picture data.
Or, how about,
KMGH doesn't think they need to send PSIP data to their parking lot.
or this:
KMGH has determined that sending out PSIP data would cost 400 thousand dollars.
Or perhaps just this:
KMGH really doesn't care.

I too would like to thank KCNC for hosting us at their Lookout facility. It's neat to see how all this is done.

Anyone that can get "the via rabbit ear" transmitting KMGH, do you get anything from the center channel when they switch to Dolby Digital? I do not.

I leave a message every two weeks for Rick regarding the DD problem. today I included that their APG is all screwed up. DirecTV thinks it's mapped to 7.1, but it's coming through as 17.1.


I also talked to Don Perez (KUSA). They are sending everything via PSIP, I tried explaining that the new DirecTV receivers don't use PSIP. He said that he will have the programming department contact DirecTV to be added to their mapping.


Thank you everyone for your responses.

I complained to Rick at the Lookout gathering about the KMGH sound problems. Frankly, he didn't seem interested in hearing what I had to say, only adding that they have had a Panasonic sound decoder of some sort since 1999. Most times I get only front left and right even though they are sending a 5.1 signal out. When they switch to their local feed (noted by their crummy stretched screen), I only get front left and center speakers and at a much lower volume.

I asked Rick if they monitored their digital signal for sound and video, and again I did not get much of a response. My guess is that Cindy has directed him not to do anything with digital until the new tower is built. What a shame!

My guess is that Cindy has directed him not to do anything with digital until the new tower is built. What a shame!

Well, in 15-20 months KMGH will have no more excuses. We shall see if they pay attention to digital after that. My guess is that KMGH will always try to do the minimum and not upgrade. McGraw-Hill is a relatively small company and maybe they do not have the budget to do anything more than the minimum. I imagine their next excuse is that their entire discretionary budget is allocated to paying for their LCG dues and tower construction.

Also, is there any news on KWGN? BTW, congratulations to WB-2 on a job well done yesterday for Jerry's kids. There was a rumor at the picnic that something is about ready to break loose on the WB-2's digital license. Someone (I can't remember if it was Paul Deeth) stated that the 34 half power signal and 35 low power signal conflict would probably be limited to within a few miles of Lookout (Lakewood & Golden).

-Don

Originally posted by donyoop
Someone (I can't remember if it was Paul Deeth) stated that the 34 half power signal and 35 low power signal conflict would probably be limited to within a few miles of Lookout (Lakewood & Golden).

-Don You mean once KWGN-DT gets going SCARE won't be able to watch KCNC-DT until LCG2 is built??? Gee what a dog-gone shame......:p

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
I complained to Rick at the Lookout gathering about the KMGH sound problems. Frankly, he didn't seem interested in hearing what I had to say, only adding that they have had a Panasonic sound decoder of some sort since 1999. Most times I get only front left and right even though they are sending a 5.1 signal out. When they switch to their local feed (noted by their crummy stretched screen), I only get front left and center speakers and at a much lower volume.

I asked Rick if they monitored their digital signal for sound and video, and again I did not get much of a response. My guess is that Cindy has directed him not to do anything with digital until the new tower is built. What a shame!

Dennis,

That's not at all the response that I got from Rick when I talked to him about the audio problems. He was under the impression that the audio problems had been fixed, and asked me to give him a call the next time I saw the problems.

(And yes, there is in fact audio that goes with a video signal on channel 17, even though some of you don't believe it... :))

I did tell him the problems were present all the time. He should check an OTA signal sometime, probably in their parking lot.

Geof, Buddy, Pal... I thought we were friends?

Even though, I am all for KWGN going on the air, I really would hate losing KCNC up here on the hill. I'm just too old to stay up late to watch CSI from L.A.!

Originally posted by santellavision
Geof, Buddy, Pal... I thought we were friends?

Even though, I am all for KWGN going on the air, I really would hate losing KCNC up here on the hill. I'm just too old to stay up late to watch CSI from L.A.! Well I certainly hope you're not affected...just those Lookout Mountain "kooks"......;) But I am apprehensive about KWGN affecting KCNC for me as well. I barely get it and fear my directional antenna might not be directional enough.....

Hello all,

I've been lurking here for about a year or so. I went to the last HDNet tour and found it fascinating. I wanted to post my experiences from the last few days.

I finally convinced the wife to pick up a new HD-ready set this weekend. We had a 32" Toshiba, and purchased a 56" JVC from Soundtrack on Saturday to be delivered on Monday. The TV is great, and we love having the wide aspect ratio for our DVDs.

I noticed Greg T's comment about the SAT520 on sale at CC, so I thought I would give it a chance. I thought I knew basically what to expect here in Denver, given the many thousands (literally) of posts on the subject.

I've got an older attic antenna. As far as analog TV goes, I can pick up all the local stations with pretty good quality, and can usually get watchable pictures from a couple of stations in Ft. Collins and Colorado Springs. I'm in east Aurora, Colfax & 70 area, and I have line of sight to downtown and the mountains. I figured I'd be able to pick up a few of the stations.

I got the receiver home, got it all hooked up, programmed, etc. and was ready to be wowed. I wasn't.

On my guide, I got KCNC, KMGH, KRMA and KDVR. No KUSA at all. KMGH had absolutely no signal. KCNC had a signal some of the time, but broke up so much that it was completely unwatchable. KDVR, well, looked exactly the same as the analog version. KRMA looked incredible.

Next, I decided to see what kind of signal I could get from D*. I got the receiver activated and subscribed to the HD package. ESPN, like KDVR, was upconverted and looked just like the analog version. Discovery looked awesome and HDNet Movies looked great, but HDNet had very low signal strength, and was breaking up considerably. By this time I was fed up, and didn't bother to go tweak my dish to try to fix it.

The receiver has now been packed back up in its box and is going back to CC soon. We couldn't justify ~$600 & ~$11 for 3-4 stations. I'm sure some of you have spent much more than that, but its just not worth it to us right now. Spending the extra for a big rooftop antenna is not in the picture right now either.

We are big fans of Smallville, and I'll be looking forward to seeing how KWGN's transmissions go. Otherwise, we'll probably be waiting for the HDTivo (can't live without the Tivo!!) to come out before we try to experiment again.

Back to lurking for another year.

squidboy,
Before you actually take that receiver back you might want to try turning the attic antenna to face downtown (that may not affect analog reception too much). Also make sure that you have no splitters in the line - they eat signal strength like crazy. Moving the antenna from the attic to the roof would also help quite a bit.

One more thing squidboy,

A "big" rooftop UHF antenna will only cost you ~$50 or so delivered, or you can pick up the radio shack model for about $20. Not a huge amount extra, considering how much you have invested already. We all certainly understand your frustration, though...as you have well seen! :)

Mark,

Can you, or anyone else, give me some more details on these antennas? I took a quick look at the RS website, but didn't see any in that price range that looked like what I would need.

Also, how do people here normally get rid of their old equipment? I'm looking to sell my 32" TV & Stand, but am not sure the best place to advertise. What has worked for others here?

Thanks!

Eric

Try starkelectronic.com or warrenelectronics.com, they both carry full lines of UHF/VHF antennas plus all of the accessories.

I would recommend Channel Master or Winegard, they both make excellent units at very affordable prices.

You might want to try lurking/searching in the HDTV hardware section a bit. Many threads there on antennas, receivers, optimizing setups, etc.

Also squidboy,

Remember that most of the time, most of the programming from the locals is all upconverted stuff anyways. ESPN is upconverted for most of the week for right now, but I did watch several baseball games and the CU-CSU game in HD from them this last weekend. This is not the best time for network HD programming. The Fall season starts very soon ( couple of weeks ) and there may in fact be programming that you would really appreciate the differences between the SD and HD versions.

Jeff

By the way, I am also in Lakewood/Golden area and would probably be afected as well from KWGN overpowering my signal. Hope not. I have been extremely lucky in that I have been able to receive everthing that has been broadcast from a rooftop antenna. This would really be a tough one.
Jeff

Question... Have the Zeneath 520, and it keeps randomly adding channels to my favorates list, is this a known problem that I need to live with or is a fix available.

Also, when I first tested the unit I received Cheyenne, but only for a couple of days. Signal was great however. Now cant seem to reacquire the signal, I type 5-1 and nothing happens. Is there something else I should try.

Lastly, what channel designators are Colorado Springs, would like to see if they come in.

Thanks as always!!!

Eric,

This is the antenna that I use from Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2160

The nice thing about RS antennas is that if they don't work for you, you can take them back, and then order something bigger from warren or stark.

Mark,

That antenna says it only works for UHF. Are any of the locals using/planning to use VHF? Note that I don't really care about the analog locals, as I get most of them from DirecTV.

Eric

Eric - all Denver digital stations will be UHF - channels 16 through 38.

Originally posted by squidboy
Mark,

That antenna says it only works for UHF. Are any of the locals using/planning to use VHF? Note that I don't really care about the analog locals, as I get most of them from DirecTV.

Eric All of the DT channels will be UHF Only. You might consider just keeping your current antenna as is and then add a UHF Only antenna which connects directly to the HD STB (with no splitters). Use good low loss RG-6 coax if you go this route.

This is what I did and it allows me to get KCNC almost all the time (KOW). When the leaves drop I am hoping to be able to receive KRMA again. I have no shot at KMGH or KUSA (and frankly I don't really care). Of course I also get Channel 32 (even on the antenna facing downtown). Keep in mind I am still amazed I get anything at all. I think you would be successful (not with KMGH) if you really wanted to spend the time and money. It should not be that way but until the stations get going on Lookout most of us will have to "struggle and fight" to get the DT signals.

Shooting at the new Jackson, Mississippi Tower construction site:

http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0309/03/m02.html

I really hope this kind of thing doesn't happen here early next year...

Skyview,
I am able to receive the Colorado Springs CBS station (KKTV?) by entering 10 on my STB. I believe it is analog channel 11. The FOX (DT channel 21) station is still on and off and there is no immediate plans for broadcasting HD signals from the ABC and NBC affiliates in the Springs.

Squidboy,
All local DT channels are broadcating UHF signals OTA, that's why you need UHF antenna pointed towards temporary transmitters located on the Republic Plaza building downtown. The stations may switch to VHF signals at some point after the Lookout Mtn. tower is complete but that is probably several years away.

Originally posted by Iwanthd
The stations may switch to VHF signals at some point after the Lookout Mtn. tower is complete but that is probably several years away. Yes, stations have to give one spectrum back and can keep one so they could elect to move their digital transmitter to their analog frequency at some point but in reality this is extremely unlikely:

1) If they purchase a full power transmitter for their assigned digital channel it will not be usable on their analog channel (except for perhaps Ch's 20 and 21 but KCNC could not tune their CH35 transmitter to operate at the Ch 4 frequency).

2) All of the RF infrastruce and filters, etc, would not work properly for other frequencies once they are designed and tuned for their DT channel frequencies.

3) The VHF band has some advantages (like lower propagation losses) but also some disadvantages like increased noise - I think Station Engineers prefer frequencies above Ch6 for Digital.

I think the option to re-use their analog frequency was only really viable if LCG2 was denied....

For those keeping an eye on the Cheyenne stations, I emailed the NBC & CBS stations asking how things are going and when they may be ready to broadcast an HD signal. I got a response from Mike Brown at channel 2 (NBC) yesterday.


It looks like we will have three standard definition channels available instead of HDTV. And as of now they will all be Spanish programming.

It is now scheduled to be on the air by October 15th.

That's too bad because I was hoping to pick them up this fall. Guess I'll have to keep my cottage up in Canada for a little longer.

Oh, and kgwn. I asked when they would begin broadcasting an HD picture and work out the sound bugs, but they haven't replied. They haven't been so good at communications lately.:confused:

I, too, live in the Golden area. Do you guys suppose it would be possible to use the dual antenna feature (Ant A -- Ant B) to defeat this problem?

Example: my rooftop antenna is pointed downtown, so I get less than great signal strength from 32-1, which I have removed from my Ant A channel list. Antenna B, a RS bowtie, works great for 32-1, directed toward the tower. Too bad Fox has no HD clue. But this works for me.

Well I am speculating on the 34/35 problem but I suspect what the Engineers are concerned about is the strong signal on 34 overwhelming the receivers ability to receive a much weaker signal on 35. There are a lot of variables that could enter into the equation. Probably the biggest factors would be receiver design and relative signal strengths. Signal strengths will depend on the directional gain characteristics of the receiving antenna and the geometry of the stations relative to the antenna.

The worst case is probably going to be something like Ernie's situation (sorry Ernie) where (I suspect) there is not a lot of angular difference between Lookout and Downtown. In this case his antenna will receive a very strong signal from Lookout because it's not really being attenuated much by the directional characteristics of the antenna and because he is relatively close to Lookout - RF levels decrease according to 1/(square of the distance). The same antenna also sees a much weaker KCNC signal from downtown and feeds both signals into the STB where it has to try and amplify the weak signal and reject the strong signal. This could be tricky and is really going to be dependent upon the front end design of the STB and the difference in signal levels.

If your geometry is such that you have a lot of angular difference between Lookout and Downtown then a directional receiving antenna won't be amplifying the Lookout signal as much as it would if it were pointing toward Lookout. This means the difference in signal strength between the Lookout Ch 34 signal and the Downtown Ch 35 signal is much less making it easier for the receiver to handle.

I think the bottom line is going to be how to minimize the Ch34 signal and maximize the Ch 35 signal and a lot of that is going to depend on where you live and how directional your antenna is. Then we will begin to find out if some receivers are more adept than others in dealing with strong adjacent channel signals.

Then will begin to find out if some receivers are more adept than others in dealing with strong adjacent channel signals.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see if 2nd generation receivers perform any better in the channel separation area than 1st gen. receivers like the DTC-100.

I'm afraid Ernie will be stuck with the Dish CBS waiver when KWGN fires up. Of course we can all sing praises to our neighbor to the north for the time being. Also, could KWGN apply to the FCC to run at 1/4 power or something like that until the tower is up if the 35 low power signal gets pretty much wiped out?

-Don

I'm not sure how much of the receiver design is integrated into the chips themselves but I suspect there is going to be at least one down-conversion stage and some IF filtering before the chip. How well these stages handle strong adjacent channel signals is probably very dependent on how each manufacturer implemented their designs (naturally better stages cost more money). Could be a 1st generation box does this better than a cheapo 2nd gen box.....who knows....

One other option might be to get a Ch 34 notch (or band reject) filter. I'm not certain how well this would work but a well designed filter might just save the day.

Originally posted by Greg T
Anyone that can get "the via rabbit ear" transmitting KMGH, do you get anything from the center channel when they switch to Dolby Digital? I do not.I have noticed the same thing. It appears that when they switch to "DD 5.1", they are just sending the regular stereo sound out over the L and R channels of a DD 5.1 signal. However, the DD 5.1 signal causes my audio receiver to lock in 5.1 mode, and all I get is sound out of the front L and R speakers. When they do this, I switch to the analog audio so I can at least use prologic mode on my audio receiver.

IIRC, when KMGH began broadcasting DD 5.1 (around super bowl time), it was true 5.1. A few months ago, however, they started doing this 2 channel only thing. I wonder if this has something to do with ESPN/ABC's decision to adopt "circle surround" encoding?

Originally posted by sigma957
I have noticed the same thing. It appears that when they switch to "DD 5.1", they are just sending the regular stereo sound out over the L and R channels of a DD 5.1 signal. However, the DD 5.1 signal causes my audio receiver to lock in 5.1 mode, and all I get is sound out of the front L and R speakers. When they do this, I switch to the analog audio so I can at least use prologic mode on my audio receiver.

IIRC, when KMGH began broadcasting DD 5.1 (around super bowl time), it was true 5.1. A few months ago, however, they started doing this 2 channel only thing. I wonder if this has something to do with ESPN/ABC's decision to adopt "circle surround" encoding?

I noticed the same thing, I remember watching Alias is DD 5.1 and thinking, wow, this is what I was missing? It sounded awesome. I do the analog switch too, I guess I'll continue until KMGH start givinin' a darn!

One other option might be to get a Ch 34 notch (or band reject) filter. I'm not certain how well this would work but a well designed filter might just save the day.

Geof, wouldn't you need an active filter design to get the rolloffs you need and avoid the lossiness of a splitter when getting ch. 35? Then you are talking power supply, amplification, & impedance matching issues. Sounds like a fun weekend project for some spark-EE.

Don

How about using an overload attenuator like they sell at Radio Shack? It eliminates reflections and should in theory minimize the overload possibilities.

Jeff

Don,
Active filter design is impractical at the frequencies we're talking about (Ch 34 is 590 to 596 MHz). In theory one could build a very decent passive 590-596 MHz band reject filter although it probably would not be cheap. I did notice that Blonder Tongue makes a Tunable Trap (MWT-U) that might work (no guarantees folks don't buy this based on my speculation). I also noticed that Stark Electronics sells the MWT-U for $126.85 (http://www.starkelectronic.com/btp48.htm).

Jeff,
I'm not sure what the overload attenuator does but I do not think it is frequency selective (I think it's just a broadband attenuator). In order to get less disparity between the CH34 and Ch 35 signals one would need some sort of frequency selective device - one that acts differently on Ch 34 versus Ch 35. That could be a Tunable Trap or some sort of CH 35 Bandpass filter. The Bandpass filter has it's own drawbacks because it would filter out the other DT channels leaving just the Ch 35 signal (the extent to which this is true depends on the bandpass filter characteristics).

KWGN Update...

I just got off the phone with Don Rooney and there isn't anything official he can announce. The wheels of govt. are pretty slow. He did tell me that he will call as soon as they get the FCC approval.

They are practicing their HD switching/time-shifting. And they are also very anxious to get our feedback on audio issues, PSIP etc. when they hit the air!

Originally posted by santellavision
KWGN Update...

I just got off the phone with Don Rooney ........ he will call as soon as they get the FCC approval.


Yawn! I think I'll catch some sleep while I wait for that call.
:o

Originally posted by JMartinko
Yawn! I think I'll catch some sleep while I wait for that call.
:o Yeah, well you can do that because you don't live in an "RF rich environment". :p :p

It would be nice if Mr Rooney or KCNC Engineering could let us know just what the concern is with Ch. 34 wiping out Ch. 35 in some locations...I may just be full of it (err, no comments please).......Perhaps they could also enlighten us with some potential remedial solutions (if there are any).

Yeah, well you can do that because you don't live in an "RF rich environment". Yeah, But i'm not so sure these two guys sleep well. ;)

http://www.frii.com/~santella/tower.jpg
Or did you mean a 'Target Rich Environment'?

http://www.frii.com/~santella/target.jpg

I can almost hear their conversation now...

Mike "OK Bob, now hand me the flange I asked you to bring from inside the truck"
Bob "Flange???"

Ah, that doesn't look so bad :(

By the looks of it those guys are wearing heavy gloves - I wonder if they've ever dropped their screwdriver....(or some other tool)....

Originally posted by Jetlag
I can almost hear their conversation now...

Mike "OK Bob, now hand me the flange I asked you to bring from inside the truck"
Bob "Flange???"

Or perhaps it was

Bob: Mike, I know this isn't the best time to bring this up, but when you asked if I would help put a TV antenna up on your roof, I honestly didn't know your house was this tall. Did you bring and extra box of "Depends", my shoes are getting a bit slippery?

I can almost hear their conversation now...

"See?...100 Ohms...you owe me 5 bucks."

--Jason

Me? I'd rather get shot at...

For those of you able to watch the MNF game last night on 17, did you have any audio problems? The 5.1 audio on my setup was just about perfect, and I didn't notice the audio problem when KMGH switched to the local spots either.

Originally posted by markdl
For those of you able to watch the MNF game last night on 17, Yeah, I had a big audio problem, and video problem! My HDTV kept ... oh, never mind.

Believe it or not, the TNF game looked pretty good on KMGH. A couple of times when they went to the sideline reporter the audio was awful (lots of interference), but other than that it was fine. I would like to recommend 3 things however:

1. The camera operators need to be trained that when they center the camera on the line, we can no longer see the entire defense. We can see the entire offense and lots of grass behind the backs. I would prefer the line being slightly off center so we can see the entire defense getting setup (safeties) and responding to the offense and any audibles that are called. You have the screen area, so use it!

2. The combination of some HD and some SD cameras is annoying. Having the broadcast continually switching between clear images and blury images gets tiresome quickly. If you going to do it in HD, DO IT IN HD!!! Well, with 1 possible exception...

2. John Madden should NEVER be shown in HD. Alway use a SD camera for his close shots. Cheerleaders = GOOD, JM = BAD! Perhaps hide him behind a scrim or sheet of diffuse material!?!?

Mark:

My receiver did not show 5.1 last night, just Dolby 2.0. However, that got the center channel to work properly with the announcers in the center and background filling from the left and right. Also, when they cut to the local commercials, I think the sound was correct coming mostly from the center. Nothing like MNF to get KMGH to actually try to do a better job! I checked the analog broadcast and the sound was better there (certainly louder), but the digital broadcast was certainly an improvement over the past. I did not get very many video breakups either.

As to the cameras, wasn't the only SD camera that sky cam deal? I didn't really notice any others, but I wasn't glued to the screen anyway. I really like the sky cam shots, but the SD is really noticeable! I bet the camera operators have a 4:3 overlay frame that they look at when shooting. Their habits probably haven't changed a bit and we get whatever is left over on the left or right sides by default.

Originally posted by Jetlag
Cheerleaders = GOOD, JM = BAD!.......

Hey, wait just a minute, JM = BAD??? Be careful who you slander here! Are you a lawyer from KMGH or KUSA??
:D

BTW, love the new picture Jetlag! It's the 'real you'!

I also agree generally with your assessment of the coverage of the game. Cheerleaders = GOOD! The cameramen seemed to need to center the line of scrimmage on the camera instead of taking advantage of the extra screen. I understand the fact the feed is being chopped for SD, but I think the SD folks would also prefer to see at least some of the defensive formation.

The overhead minicamera is a bust. Not only is the picture bad compared to other cameras, but they constantly move the da#n thing in the way. On the last field goal at the end, as we tried to watch the snap and hold for the kick, they moved it across the screen and right on top of the holder at the time of the snap. Not only was it distracting, but it was now impossible to see how well the holder got the ball down. I hope that doesn't get to be a habit with them.

As for the 5.1, I am not sure what you do to make the sound good for a live game. It seemed for the most part, ABC just added some stadium PA sounds with some crowd noise in the rear channels. It was OK, but not 'earthshaking'.

Looking forward to the game on Monday. It should be a great one.

Just as a reminder for those not attending the CU/UCLA game tomorrow like us loyal CU fans in Boulder, the CSU/Cal game is live in HD on HDNet at about 4PM.

I don't watch KMGH so I cannot comment on their sound.....

I did however enjoy the Superbit version of the Mask of Zorro and the 5.1 sound (expanded to 7.1 with my Lex) sounded just great...:p

Originally posted by Geof
I don't watch KMGH so I cannot comment on their sound.....

KMGH has a Digital TV Broadcast??? Imagine that! Where did you hear of such a thing??? I have never seen a blip from them on my receiver. How could they be on the air in DTV, didn't they say it would cost them 'biillions and biillions' of dollars to broadcast to metro Denver in HD???

Maybe that picture Ernie posted yesterday was just a shot of a couple of guys trying to put up an antenna strong enough to pick up this KMGH signal you spoke about:

Mike: OK, I turned that flange again. Bob, call downstairs to your wife on the cell and see if she can get anything from KMGH yet! We have 'tweaked' this darn thing twice already.

Bob: She has scanned the receiver four more times and still can't get a whiff. Damn our luck, even this new antenna isn't strong enough to pick up their signal. We must be nearly three blocks from the studio. I told those guys at Radio Shack it wouldn't work from that far away!
:D

(Sorry folks, couldn't resist)

Just a viewer note, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers are scheduled to perform their album "The Last Dj" on PBS Soundstage late Sat. night. I believe the time is listed as midnight (early Sun. morning) on the KRMA web page, but the national feed is listed as midnight EDT, which would put it on at 10 PM here unless they time shift it. Maybe someone who watches KRMA knows the exact time.

Originally posted by JMartinko
"the Last DJ" ... ,but the national feed is listed as midnight EDT, which would put it on at 10 PM here unless they time shift it. The national PBS web site (http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_sep.html) puts it at 8PM and 11PM MDT on Saturday.

Hey Folks, Great to finally meet some of you last Thur on Lookout. I brought up this question to one of the Ch 4 engineers but didn't get an answer. While watching any OTA broadcasts I'm unable to get any sound through my receiver. I get sound from SD OTA channels just nothing from the HD channels. I rechecked and reconfigured my hook-ups to the point I'm forgetting what I've tried or have'nt tried. I'm running to inputs to my Sony XBR342 which has a built in HD tuner: one input via Cable in and the other via VHF/UHF input. What's troublesome is you would think my connections are right if I'm able to get sound from SD OTA broadcasts. Please help. Thx, Drew

P.S. What kind of weirdo would drive around in a hearse?

Just received an email from Dish about the new HDNet, HDNet Movies & ESPN-HD that will be starting Sept 15.

So, I call Dish (and you all know whats coming) Duh, we aren't going to be offering that! Hellooooo? Can I speak to a supervisor please. Wait, wait, wait... Hi, uh, what's that? Do you mean Discovery, I think we have that in HD. No, the new channels I just told you about. Uh, hold on, I'll ask somebody... No, we don't have that, HD net is only on Directv!!!!

Good-bye. How do they stay in business?

So you get the email that is announcing the press release, and you expect them to have it out to all the CSR's before the press release ? I think they are concerned about word getting out before it is officially announced.

Soundstage is on each week four times. Thurs at 8 and 11 and Sat at 8 and 11 MDT. Next week, starting Thursday, 9/11, is John Hiatt; Dar Williams; Robinella and the CCstringband.

Most of these broadcasts are superb and most have been 5.1 sound. TitanTV has been pretty accurate lately with the broadcast times. I use it regularly to get an HD schedule for Denver. It usually is the only thing I use to keep up on what's in HD.

Dbyrd11:

I have an RCA F38310 with a built in tuner. On mine, the sound comes from the TV via an optical fiber out to my receiver. I don't use my crummy TV speakers. Can you hear sound from your TV built in speakers? I can't see where there would be any difference between SD and HD sound out. Perhaps your Sony manual talks about this. Good luck.

Originally posted by RonAuger
The national PBS web site (http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_sep.html) puts it at 8PM and 11PM MDT on Saturday.
Ron
Thanks for getting that right for me. I was looking at the Telstar 4 C-Band schedule C-Band (http://www.pbs.org/whatson/schedulex/daily.html?date=2003-09-6)
and I was pretty sure that didn't match the KRMA HD schedule. I really need to bookmark that page you brought up.

Originally posted by dbyrd11
While watching any OTA broadcasts I'm unable to get any sound through my receiver. I get sound from SD OTA channels just nothing from the HD channels. I rechecked and reconfigured my hook-ups to the point I'm forgetting what I've tried or have'nt tried. I'm running to inputs to my Sony XBR342 which has a built in HD tuner: one input via Cable in and the other via VHF/UHF input. What's troublesome is you would think my connections are right if I'm able to get sound from SD OTA broadcasts. I'm sorry but I don't quite follow the configuration. Your set has a built in tuner, and I presume, built in speakers. If it has built in speakers can you get sound from them when you're tuned to a digital channel?

In order to get 5.1 audio you will need to run a Toslink cable (most likely) or a Digital Coax cable (less likely) from the TV to your 5.1 channel Preamp. I do not know how the Sony works but it may be that there is no audio signal on the analog stereo outputs from the TV when it is tuned to a digital station.

Speaking of bookmarks John, I thought I would share mine for keeping track of HD content. Others pls chime in if you've found other good HD schedule sites.
ABC HDTV Schedule (-1 hr) (http://dtv720p.com/)
CBS HDTV Schedule (-1hr) (http://www.cbs.com/info/hdtv/)
NBC HDTV Schedule (-1hr) (http://www.nbc.com/nbc/header/TV_Schedule/)
PBS HDTV Schedule, National (-2hr) (http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_sked.html)
Discovery HD Theater Schedule (-2hr) (http://dhd.discovery.com/schedule/schedule.jsp?date=today&channel=DHD)
ESPNHD Schedule (-2hr) (http://espn.go.com/espnhd/schedule.html)
HBOHD Schedule (you can customize schedule to MDT, and HBOHD) (http://www.hbo.com/NASApp/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_TODAY=TODAY)
Showtime HDTV Schedule, East (-2hr) (http://www.sho.com/schedules/day_sched.cfm?network=SHO&feedname=HDTV%20East)
HDNet 7-day Schedule (-2hr) (http://hd.net/schedule_sevenday.html)
HDNet Movies Schedule (-2hr) (http://hd.net/movies_schedule_sevenday.html)
TitanTV HDTV Daily (http://www.titantv.com/ttv/home/HDTVUpdate.aspx)



Other public HDTV Resources:
TitanTV (http://www.titantv.com/ttv/programming/content.asp)
WhatIsDTV (site is often down) (http://whatisdtv.us/)
HDPictures (http://www.hdpictures.com/)
HDTV Galaxy (http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/)
Keohi HDTV (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/)
HDTV News from HDTV Magazine (http://web-star.com/hdtv/hdtvnews.html)

Ron, thanks for the lists. I did not know about TitanTv HDTV Daily. That is a good list on one page. Only thing missing is HDNet Movies. They are pretty good about fixing things, so I will send them an email about that.

Hey all,

Just wanted to give an update and thanks to those who replied to my earlier messages.

I decided to go ahead and try out a new roof-top antenna. I picked up the one from RadioShack that Mark mentioned a few posts back. Oh, and for others wanting to try, the price with the accessories I got turned out to be around $60 for the complete package. A little more than $20, but still not much compared to the cost of the rest of my equipment.

I picked up the antenna this afternoon and slapped it on my roof with a 10 foot mast, just to be on the safe side. I ran a line down the side of my house direct to my receiver.

The good news is that I can now pick up KCNC and KUSA with good signal strength. Still no KMGH though (big suprise, huh?).

I'm holding on to the Zenith receiver for a few more days while we decide if we want to go for the $399 directv receiver deal or try to pick up one of the Samsung T151s for $220 that Costco should have "any day", and just stick to the OTA until the HD DirecTivos come out, which should be right after I can pick up KMGH. (Look, John has me jaded already, and I just got my setup this week :)

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement fellas. I'll try to give an update in a few days after we've had a chance to watch a few shows.

Thanks for the links Ron, I'll have to check them out.

Eric

P.S. Any news on the next HDNet tour?

Congrats Eric.....you will like what you see....and oh, you should be able to get KRMA-DT as well.

Originally posted by Geof
Congrats Eric.....you will like what you see....and oh, you should be able to get KRMA-DT as well.

Yes, I do. To clarify, I get KUSA, KRMA, KDVR and KCNC. I also get some religious channel on 53-1, but I'm not sure what it is.

Additionally, I can still get all the analog channels I got before, including the VHF ones, on my "UHF Only" antenna.

Again, thanks for the help.

Eric

Originally posted by RonAuger
Speaking of bookmarks John, I thought I would share mine for keeping track of HD content. Others pls chime in if you've found other good HD schedule sites.
ABC HDTV Schedule (-1 hr) (http://dtv720p.com/)
CBS HDTV Schedule (-1hr) (http://www.cbs.com/info/hdtv/)
NBC HDTV Schedule (-1hr) (http://www.nbc.com/nbc/header/TV_Schedule/)
PBS HDTV Schedule, National (-2hr) (http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_sked.html)
Discovery HD Theater Schedule (-2hr) (http://dhd.discovery.com/schedule/schedule.jsp?date=today&channel=DHD)
ESPNHD Schedule (-2hr) (http://espn.go.com/espnhd/schedule.html)
HBOHD Schedule (you can customize schedule to MDT, and HBOHD) (http://www.hbo.com/NASApp/schedule/ScheduleServlet?ACTION_TODAY=TODAY)
Showtime HDTV Schedule, East (-2hr) (http://www.sho.com/schedules/day_sched.cfm?network=SHO&feedname=HDTV%20East)
HDNet 7-day Schedule (-2hr) (http://hd.net/schedule_sevenday.html)
HDNet Movies Schedule (-2hr) (http://hd.net/movies_schedule_sevenday.html)
TitanTV HDTV Daily (http://www.titantv.com/ttv/home/HDTVUpdate.aspx)



Other public HDTV Resources:
TitanTV (http://www.titantv.com/ttv/programming/content.asp)
WhatIsDTV (site is often down) (http://whatisdtv.us/)
HDPictures (http://www.hdpictures.com/)
HDTV Galaxy (http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/)
Keohi HDTV (http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/)
HDTV News from HDTV Magazine (http://web-star.com/hdtv/hdtvnews.html)

Thanks Ron, that's great! Could you copy the above into a new FAQ thread so we could pull it up immediately in a search, since it will be impossible to find in this thread in the future with hundreds of pages?

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Thanks Ron, that's great! Could you copy the above into a new FAQ thread so we could pull it up immediately in a search, since it will be impossible to find in this thread in the future with hundreds of pages? Or, you could just go to each link and add the bookmarks.....

I'll just post them to the Denver DTV website.

Interesting story in the Sunday Post today. Did you see the 1900'+ FM Radio tower they just built east of Denver? The story talks about small plane pilots worrying about not seeing it in bad weather/haze etc.

It didn't mention any objection from (S)Care though...

Ernie,
That may be the first tower ever left unopposed by sCARE.

Jeff

No property values to enhance by not building!!! Not about people, about money....

Originally posted by squidboy
I also get some religious channel on 53-1, but I'm not sure what it is. Channel 53.1 is KWHD-DT which is independent, mostly Christian programming. Don't look for any HD programming there! Their tower is in Elizabeth, about 1 mile from my house.

Ernie, Thanks for adding those links to your Links Page (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/links.htm) -- good place for them.

Originally posted by santellavision
Interesting story in the Sunday Post today. Did you see the 1900'+ FM Radio tower they just built east of Denver? The story talks about small plane pilots worrying about not seeing it in bad weather/haze etc.


Just glad the LCG2 got approved when it did. New 1996' tower near Hoyt (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E1616286,00.html), the WAAY antenna collapse in Hunstville, and the 'new' higher power transmitter by KFMD (aka KISS FM) would have all been bad example as far as sCARE was involved.

What station is MNF on in HDTV. I have a direct view of downtown Denver and would think I'd be able to pick it up. Thanks.

I hope Denver isn't one of the few towns that isn't getting MNF in HDTV.

Ken

I hope Denver isn't one of the few towns that isn't getting MNF in HDTV.ROTFLMAO

Originally posted by Ken Lopata
What station is MNF on in HDTV. I have a direct view of downtown Denver and would think I'd be able to pick it up. Thanks.

I hope Denver isn't one of the few towns that isn't getting MNF in HDTV.

Ken


It's 17-1. Good luck....:rolleyes:

Ken,

Several people south of downtown have ben able to get KMGH on 17 with a rooftop antenna pointed toward downtown.

Give it a shot.

Jeff

Ken,
I live in the Ken Caryl Ranch area. Right on the southwest corner of Kipling and Ken Caryl Avenue. I have a rooftop antenna pointing directly downtown and I receive 17-1 (ABC) at about 65-70% on my Dish 6000. I have a line of sight to downtown from my rooftop. It seems like people in the south have a better chance of receiving ABC.
Good Luck
Jason

Did any of the lucky 20 or so get DD5.1 sound on MNF last night? I only saw a DD2.0 signal, where the game last Thursday was in 5.1

Couldn't receive either audio format from KMGH last night. Come to think of it, couldn't get an video either. Thanks to KMGH for the great feed, oops, I forgot, I can't receive KMGH DTV. Hey, but at least they are saving the $75K or so it would cost to actually be on the air for the next two years for more than the 'lucky 20'. (Sorry to beat you on this one Ron.)

Actually, I did watch the game in HD and it was in 5.1, and actually the mix wasn't too bad. Background crowd noise (clapping, vendors etc.) and the PA announcer were on in the rear with most of the announcer's vocals out of the front center speaker with the usual crowd noise in the from the mains. I found it a pretty decent mix, much better than last Thursday. Overall, I found it to be a pretty enjoyable presentation and enjoyed the game, other than the outcome that is. I am looking forward to the season. Unfortunately (?) or fortunately (depends on your perspective I guess) I have Bronco season tickets so I won't get to see the two Bronco HD games on MNF.

So I rented the first couple discs of Season 1 of Alias at Blockbuster on the weekend. I was telling the clerk that I'd heard good things about Alias, but since I can't get ABC's signal way up here, I hadn't seen it. He looked a little puzzled. The wife and I both loved the first few episodes. I guess we'll be renting them as they come out on DVD. At least they're anamorphic with DD5.1.

I had the same audio mix I always get on KMGH-DT, DD0.0!

(Damn, John beat me to it :) )

Audio was 2.0. But, I don't think KMGH has really figured out how to do 5.1 reliably so the 2.0 sound is much better anyway, IMHO. Last week, I didn't see any 5.1 flag on my receiver for TNF. They do appear to have fixed their local sound to be a normal 2.0 source instead of a center and left speaker only deal.

It was interesting to me that there were very very few cuts back to the local KMGH station for ads. Maybe they don't care for the 20 of us that can receive them. The ABC promo ads are good enough for them, I guess.

John, I would be interested in presenting your $75K plan to improve their signal in person to Cindy. With a few details, maybe she could be pursuaded.

Just got a message from Don Rooney saying that the word is that the FCC is now reviewing KWGN's application, but there's no estimate when they may get approval.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi

John, I would be interested in presenting your $75K plan to improve their signal in person to Cindy. With a few details, maybe she could be persuaded.

At the tower tour, the KCNC engineer told us they pay about $3000/mo rent for the Republic Building spot and about $1500/ month for the fiber optic link to get the signal to the top of the building from the studio. If you assume KMGH took their existing set up to the Republic Building it would cost them $4500 a month to run it there instead of on their roof. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long it would be needed, but if you assume it is 2 more years until the LCG tower is on, it is still only about $108K plus the cost of moving the gear $20K (?). If the LCG is done in a little over a year, it would be around $75K to do it. Of course the KMGH engineer said they would want a new (more powerful) transmitter for the Republic Building so that could add another $50-150K (WAG). I think most of us would be happy with the same transmitter, but it likely wouldn't service Boulder. I would be assuming that their is minimal engineering support cost on the Republic Building since they pay to service the existing transmitter anyway, only now the engineer would have to walk over to the RB and ride the elevator up. That could add several hours a month of support I suppose. Any way you cut it, it is still a LOT less than the "over $400K' the lawyer claimed.

Originally posted by JMartinko
At the tower tour, the KCNC engineer told us they pay about $3000/mo rent for the Republic Building spot and about $1500/ month for the fiber optic link to get the signal to the top of the building from the studio. If you assume KMGH took their existing set up to the Republic Building it would cost them $4500 a month to run it there instead of on their roof. Your guess is as good as mine as to how long it would be needed, but if you assume it is 2 more years until the LCG tower is on, it is still only about $108K plus the cost of moving the gear $20K (?). If the LCG is done in a little over a year, it would be around $75K to do it. Of course the KMGH engineer said they would want a new (more powerful) transmitter for the Republic Building so that could add another $50-150K (WAG). I think most of us would be happy with the same transmitter, but it likely wouldn't service Boulder. I would be assuming that their is minimal engineering support cost on the Republic Building since they pay to service the existing transmitter anyway, only now the engineer would have to walk over to the RB and ride the elevator up. That could add several hours a month of support I suppose. Any way you cut it, it is still a LOT less than the "over $400K' the lawyer claimed.

You know, just the other day I was thinking about the transition to DTV and all, and a recent post to this thread (I believe) about whether the stations would keep their new DTVallocated channels or move back to their original ones. For channels 6, 7, 9, and (probably 4), there would be a big monthly reason to do this. But as was pointed out, if they buy a new, full-power UHF transmitter, they may just want to keep the new channel.
But I got this sinking feeling in my gut remembering the KCNC engineer talking about KDVR, saying, "They boil water over there" and talking about their electricity costs. And then remembering that the channel 4 transmitter is relatively new. I started thinking, "have we ever heard that the LCG stations would initially start full power broadcasts?" I read on other threads and forums that many places with towers are using low-power transmitters and plan on using their existing ones to do high-power one their legacy channels once they shut down their analog channels. I don't know if they could get away with that, but in a way, it seems like some (KMGH anyone?) may plan on doing that to save money.
I wonder if something like that will happen. Well, I guess we'll know in a couple of years, but I have to say, I'm a little worried about that now.

Did anyone try to watch the new NBC shows last night on KUSA? There was a serious lip synch problem for the first hour of prime time (the HD part), although it seemed to be better later for Leno. I tried re-scanning and switching the channel off and on several times but it didn't help. I was using an older (first gen.) Zenith for the OTA reception. Don't know the model number. I though KUSA was 'leading the way in HD', but it appears they can't get the audio synched up with the video. Of course, this is not a new problem, but all of the other stations that are NOT "leading the way in HD" have been dealing with this problem (and in some cases even solving it) for some time now. Fortunately I was not too impressed with either of the new fall shows, so I likely won't be watching KUSA again soon in prime time.

I saw a couple minutes of "Whoopi" while coooking dinner. It looked good (the pq, not the show). I didn't notice the lip sync problem, but I wasn't paying that much attention either. The next show "Happy Family" was supposed to be in HD but the whole show wasn't. After each commercial I thought, maybe now they'll remember to throw the d@mn switch -- but noooo! doesn't matter -- those shows sucked anyway. So much for watching Denver's self-proclaimed HDTV leader!

I watched "Intersection" on HDNet Movies after that.

Ahhhhh, Five days and a wake-up 'til us Dishians get HDNet too!

Ah, the thrill of the first Hogan's Heroes marathon in HD.

:)

Jeff

Forget Hogan's Heroes, I want to see Bikini Destinations!!

I want to see Bikini Destinations!!Grrrrrrrrrr!

Banter aside, what you Dishians really should look forward to on HDNet are shows like True Music, World Report and Higher Definition.

HDNet seems to frequently get first run trailers too.

True Music, World Report and Higher Definition riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Babes, Bikinis & Skin, WOOHOO! (a 'dishian')

FYI, Discovery HD is in the clear tonight on 61.5 and 148, channel 9420.

Don't remember the last time this got as far back as page 4 with no posts.

Jeff

Well just to keep this on top, did anyone catch the season premiere of Enterprise last Wednesday? Well, 16:9 analog format is good, but it was grainy as hell. Is the local UPN station timeshifting by recording on analog or something? I forget if they will be on LCG2 or Morrison, or if UPN even has plans for HD, but the current analog video quality is very, very poor... :(

Just wanted to add a brief description of my OTA attempts...

I live in the Superior, CO area (near Louisville/Boulder) right by Costco. By TOPO map info, I am 16 miles away from the downtown towers and appx the same to Lookout mnt. Downtown is @ 135 deg. and Lookout is 181 deg.

My friend and I put a CM4228 2-bay UHF antenna up on my roof yesterday. We then strung about 100ft of RG6 to the basement, where I have a PC with the MYHD-120 card for HD reception feeding into an X1 projector.

Long story short, I get NBC (16-1) with about 30% signal (the station comes in fine), and FOX (32-1) with 80% signal. That's about it. I have the antenna pointed at downtown now...I also tried pointing it direct at Lookout, thinking that maybe PBS was a better option than NBC, but I couldn't lock onto PBS at all...

I was hoping I could get CBS as well, which with NBC, FOX and CBS would have been fine for now, but I couldn't get CBS (35-1) at all :-(

Question, though...would an amplifier (CM7777) help pick up CBS?

Just thought I'd let everyone know...plus this keeps this thread on the 1st page :-)

Rgds,

JohnW

Just thought I'd mention that the Bronco's game looked fantastic on digital yesterday. Much better than DirecTV but I can't compare it to the analog OTA signal. The colors were better and the graphic overlays were really sharp and clean.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
Well just to keep this on top, did anyone catch the season premiere of Enterprise last Wednesday? Well, 16:9 analog format is good, but it was grainy as hell. Is the local UPN station timeshifting by recording on analog or something? I forget if they will be on LCG2 or Morrison, or if UPN even has plans for HD, but the current analog video quality is very, very poor... :(

I agree that the PQ of Enterprise is pretty bad. They'll be on the LCG2 tower eventually. Couple of UPN notes: according to Leo Bradley (channel 20's current antenna landlord), they could put up a digital antenna and broadcast on their digital channel any time they want from their current location. Since corporate UPN has no HDTV content, it doesn't make any sense for them to do that, though. Hopefully by the time the LCG2 tower gets built, Enterprise will be in HD. Rumours in the HDTV Programming Forum have it that post-production of Enterprise isn't done in an HD-ready format yet. I'd expect that to be changing soon.

Originally posted by jwehman

Question, though...would an amplifier (CM7777) help pick up CBS?

Rgds,

JohnW Hard to tell until you try. I suspect it may but keep in mind that amplifiers amplify noise as well as signal - if you have a Signal to Noise problem an amp will not help. If you do try an amp get a decent (low noise) one and put it near (at) the antenna. You may want to try fine tuning the antenna position first though. There are many of us who've discovered that inches can literally mean success or failure. If you can, move the antenna around a bit (by hand) while someone is watching the signal strength meter.....you may find a much better location (and don't forget to try tilting it up or down).

PBS (KRMA) is also located downtown - KRMA, KCNC, and KUSA are all atop the republic Plaza...keep your antenna pointed there...

Originally posted by jwehman
Just wanted to add a brief description of my OTA attempts...
<snip>

Long story short, I get NBC (16-1) with about 30% signal (the station comes in fine), and FOX (32-1) with 80% signal. That's about it. I have the antenna pointed at downtown now...I also tried pointing it direct at Lookout, thinking that maybe PBS was a better option than NBC, but I couldn't lock onto PBS at all...

<snip>

PBS isn't on Lookout. Right now, PBS, NBC, and CBS all broadcast from the top of the same building (Republic Plaza) downtown. Once the new towers are built, PBS will move to Mt Morrison and NBC, CBS, and ABC will move to Lookout.

I'm a little surprised that you can get NBC but not CBS or PBS. If you can get NBC, I'd expect you to also see CBS and PBS with a little fine-tuning.

Once the fall season starts, we'll see how committed KUSA is to NBC's HDTV programming. They've been really hit and miss since they went on the air in May. They're also the only station we don't have an evening engineering contact to call when they fail to flip the switch. So we'll see.

Originally posted by dr_mal
Once the fall season starts, we'll see how committed KUSA is to NBC's HDTV programming. They've been really hit and miss since they went on the air in May. They're also the only station we don't have an evening engineering contact to call when they fail to flip the switch. So we'll see. Oh common....KUSA is "Colorado's HDTV Leader" <cough, cough>. Surely you jest....;)

Originally posted by Geof
Oh common....KUSA is "Colorado's HDTV Leader" <cough, cough>. Surely you jest....;)

...and quit calling me Shirley (sorry, watched Airplane! and Zero Hour over the weekend :))

Shameless plug for me here:

I'm giving away either a Dish 811 or a Zenith HD-Sat520 receiver this time around in my survivor contest at DBSTalk. This is the first week of the contest. Some of you have played in the past, so I thought I'd mention it again. :)

Originally posted by dr_mal
I'm a little surprised that you can get NBC but not CBS or PBS. If you can get NBC, I'd expect you to also see CBS and PBS with a little fine-tuning.

Actually, I have the same problem with my antenna setup. I can get NBC just fine along with Faux. But, neither PBS or CBS come in very well or not at all on that setting.

Yesterday I setup up a second antenna pointed just slightly different and that gets NBC, PBS, and CBS (along with the 29, whatever independent that is). But the NBC signal is about 10 points lower on the second setup.

I think that some of it maybe the MyHD tuner, because I am using that as well on my HTPC, thankfully it has the two antenna connections, so I can use both so that I receive all the necessary signals.

I also wonder if the NBC signal is not somehow overpowering the PBS and CBS signals from Republic, since I only had this problem once NBC went live.

Steve

I can get KCNC reliably but KRMA has been "iffy" all spring and summer and KUSA is no-go. I might be able to tinker with the antenna to get KUSA reliably but I would likely lose KCNC (and since I cannot stand KUSA I don't care to tinker).

I would not think KCNC should be affected by KUSA since one is Ch35 and the other Ch16. You might be better off with a less directional antenna...

I see Comcast has announced their new HD lineup and started taking orders. Interesting they offer only KUSA and KRMA among the locals. I guess that's why KUSA is the "Leader in HD". Of course there is no mention of KMGH. (Guess they can't pick it up either!)

Don't forget fellow Dishians...
Today is the day for ESPN-HD, HDNet & HDNet Movies to start at 3pm - WooHoo!

Comcast tells me HD isn't available in my area of Longmont yet and of course, no ETA.

Originally posted by JMartinko
I see Comcast has announced their new HD lineup and started taking orders. Interesting they offer only KUSA and KRMA among the locals. I guess that's why KUSA is the "Leader in HD". Of course there is no mention of KMGH. (Guess they can't pick it up either!)

I got the email saying that it was available in my area today as well. The rep on the phone was trying to tell me that ALL of the locals are available now (including KMGH). After I questioned them being able to carry KCNC he then said that it and Faux are still being worked on.

They are offering the HD for free until 2004, but according the rep I would have to purchase the lowest Digital package at $49/month. Since I already have Dish I can't see spending that money, especially if KMGH really isn't available yet.

Does anyone here know what the rental fee is for the HD receivers from Comcast?

At least I added the new Dish HD pack today, so I will be enjoying HDNet when I get home tonight!

Steve

Originally posted by jwehman
Just wanted to add a brief description of my OTA attempts...

I live in the Superior, CO area (near Louisville/Boulder) right by Costco. By TOPO map info, I am 16 miles away from the downtown towers and appx the same to Lookout mnt. Downtown is @ 135 deg. and Lookout is 181 deg.

My friend and I put a CM4228 2-bay UHF antenna up on my roof yesterday. We then strung about 100ft of RG6 to the basement, where I have a PC with the MYHD-120 card for HD reception feeding into an X1 projector.

Long story short, I get NBC (16-1) with about 30% signal (the station comes in fine), and FOX (32-1) with 80% signal. That's about it. I have the antenna pointed at downtown now...I also tried pointing it direct at Lookout, thinking that maybe PBS was a better option than NBC, but I couldn't lock onto PBS at all...

I was hoping I could get CBS as well, which with NBC, FOX and CBS would have been fine for now, but I couldn't get CBS (35-1) at all :-(

Question, though...would an amplifier (CM7777) help pick up CBS?

Just thought I'd let everyone know...plus this keeps this thread on the 1st page :-)

Rgds,

JohnW

I have a Channel Master amplifier that I am not currently using. You are welcome to borrow it for a test if you want. I am also located in Superior.

Steve

Originally posted by b5lurker

They are offering the HD for free until 2004, but according the rep I would have to purchase the lowest Digital package at $49/month. Since I already have Dish I can't see spending that money, especially if KMGH really isn't available yet.

Hmm. Based on other threads on AVS, and based on the conversation I had with a comcast rep a couple of months ago, I was under the impression that you could subscribe to any level of programming that you wanted. I specifically asked if I could just get a "basic" package and get the HD channels when they became available. She told me that I could, but I'd have to rent their HD box for about $10 per month. The package was about $15/month and included the locals and channels like TBS/Discovery and a few others.

Of course, if all they are going to offer is NBC and PBS in HD, it seems like a waste of time and certainly not worth it.

I called Comcast too just for the heck of it and was told the HD channels are indeed free and even available in my neighborhood, but only if you subscribe to the 'digital cable service' which was $52/month minimum without any movie channels. After I finished choking, I told her I would 'think about it' and hung up. That's pretty pricey stuff for HD channels, since I already get the other SD channels from other sources.

John,

That doesn't sound right. It's the old CSR/Supervisor runaround. I would keep calling back until someone really knows what the deal is. The other threads seem to mention what Mike said, you can get the $15./mo basic plus the box rental.

The one kicker might be with the basic/box rental concept, which could get you the Locals in HD, might be the fact that I dont think that would qualify you for those 2 InHD (or whatever they're called that just launched nationwide) channels they offer. At least so I've read in other threads.

For me personally, those would be the only 2 channels I'd care about from Comcast because I get everything out there else via different means. Those channels would be worth *something* to me.. just not $50ish a month for a full blown Digital package if thats the minimum I'd have to spend to get access to them.

Course for so many of you that dont get KMGH OTA (even if you get most the rest), the cheaper concept is still noteworthy for whenever that channel lights up.

Well, got my E* HD package ordered, should be turned on within 8 more minutes. I hope bikini destinations is on tonight! woohoo!

BTW, anyone else {besides JM who didn't have any ;-) }, get lots of breakups last night during MNF from DT KMGH? I must have had 20-30 breakups during the game, very frustrating.

Originally posted by santellavision
John,

That doesn't sound right. It's the old CSR/Supervisor runaround. I would keep calling back until someone really knows what the deal is. The other threads seem to mention what Mike said, you can get the $15./mo basic plus the box rental.

Frankly, I just called for 'informational purposes only', as I can't imagine being drawn to get Comcast. The only channels I really would like that I can't get at the moment would be the 'Center Ice' package during hockey season so I could see more Flyers and other games. That is only on Direct and BEV AFAIK at this time. I don't believe Comcast has it. C/Ku-Band, at least for me, has all the the channels the other guys have with a MUCH cleaner SD picture when blown up on the big screen. I also have various other accesses to all the HD channels I have an interest in at this time, I just called and posted for the informational value. Of course, considering all of the money I have invested in various receivers for various C/Ku formats, I probably could have purchased a lifetime subscription to Direct TV and Comcast both, but we won't get in to that discussion in public. :D It is truly amazing what you can justify $$$$ after you are divorced. ;)

Ok I finally got a Comcast CSR that knew what was going on (dialed 1-800-COMCAST, not the local Denver number) with the new HD stuff. I was able to add the basic analog cable package ($13.44/month) and that will get me the HD broadcast channels (not sure about iNHD and ESPN HD). The equipment rental charge is $5.00/month and the installation will cost $27.99. She couldn't schedule the install until 10/2 at the earliest because of "high demand", didn't realize there were so many people in the Denver area that had HD capable sets (or do they only have 1 tech that is qualified to install HD).

Plus, the side benefit is my cable modem service will drop $10/month, so in the end I only pay $8.44/month more.

Now they just need to get KMGH added to their channels, which I assume will happen before 10/4.

Wow, what a week for HD! First Dish's new package and then Comcast!

Steve

Originally posted by Jetlag
BTW, anyone else {besides JM who didn't have any ;-) }, get lots of breakups last night during MNF from DT KMGH? I must have had 20-30 breakups during the game, very frustrating.

As long as John's been excluded (and I appear to have beat Ron to the punch)... :D

Yeah, I got pretty solid breakups on KMGH-DT last night. In fact, the whole evening was one solid lack of picture.

Originally posted by weldon
Just thought I'd mention that the Bronco's game looked fantastic on digital yesterday. Much better than DirecTV but I can't compare it to the analog OTA signal. The colors were better and the graphic overlays were really sharp and clean.

You mean KCNC had it in HD? :confused:

Last night I caught Fox News broadcast and they mentioned the Comcast HD and said Fox would be available in widescreen, but SD converted.

No, he didnt say HD. But on non HD programming they upconvert everything to 1080i (keeping the 4x3 aspect ratio) on their digital channel and it's best "channel 4" picture you'll ever see. Way better than analog OTA channel 4 or any signal you'll get from DBS or cable on their run of the mill local channel offerings.

Originally posted by b5lurker


Now they just need to get KMGH added to their channels, which I assume will happen before 10/4.

Wow, what a week for HD! First Dish's new package and then Comcast!

Steve

Why do you say before 10/4?

From: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2262279,00.html .

In the Denver-Boulder area, Comcast is transmitting seven HDTV channels over its upgraded cable system. Programming includes Showtime, HBO and ESPN, among others, as well as the local NBC affiliate KUSA and the local PBS-affiliated KRMA.

Comcast also is broadcasting enhanced wide-screen digital programming from the local Fox affiliate, -KDVR.
The company plans to bring other parts of the state on line next year, including Fort Collins, Greeley, Pueblo and certain mountain towns.
Comcast's digital cable service costs from the mid-$40 range to $69.99 a month. Its standard cable service averages about $35 a month, but these customers wouldn't get premium channels such as HBO and Showtime in HDTV format.

The Comcast set-top box will cost existing customers $15.99 to install. New customers will have to pay $27.99 if their home already is wired for cable, and $43.99 if it isn't.

Yesterday's Denver Post Article on Comcast HDTV (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1634248,00.html)


Comcast Corp. made a bid Monday to keep high-end Denver customers from switching to satellite television, offering seven high-definition channels at no cost.

...

Comcast also is offering high-definition HBO, Showtime, ESPN HD and two other channels, IN-HD and IN-HD2, which offer movies, sports and entertainment, at no additional cost to customers who already subscribe to the pay services and a Comcast digital programming package.

The set-top boxes cost $5 monthly - although Comcast is waiving the fee through year's end - and $15.99 to $27.99 to install.


Amazing what some competition will do. 2 years ago, when I first started shopping for an HDTV, the word was, "cable has no plans for HD and won't for at least 10 years, especially seeing as they'll have to upgrade their network." Now all of a sudden, they are ready to start service in only 2 years!

Does anyone have Comcast hdtv yet? I was wondering how much they are compressing the signal compared to satellite.

I'm scheduled for install tomorrow. I'm currently analog, so switching to digital will cost me about $12.00 more a month ($15.99 to install) . I'm in a location that can't get ANY ota HDTV so I've never even seen it.

For those of you waiting for install, I'll report back after Thursday to give my impressions.

Thanks

There was an interesting letter in the RMN this morning.
I guess all the RF is keeping Uncle Al up at nights. He wrote this scathing letter ripping the JeffCo commissioners. Saying they weren't paying attention and they were decided before the public testimony etc.

The only problem is... nobody CARES anymore!
(pun definitely intended)

Originally posted by santellavision
There was an interesting letter in the RMN this morning.
........
RMN Letter (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/opinion/article/0,1299,DRMN_38_2267842,00.html)
Awww man, if only they hadn't already voted!
:rolleyes:

BTW, note that it says the city council has approved support of litigation. Who could have seen that coming??? Somebody better tell the KMGH lawyers about this, they said they would be on the air this fall.

From the Rocky:
The council then approved a resolution authorizing litigation to oppose the construction of the Lake Cedar Group tower.

If this means that Golden is going to file an appeal of the approval, then does this also mean that LCG cannot go forward? (I thought that if a government sues [unlike a lawsuit from CARE], that it does not have to put up money for an injunction.) Is an injunction automatic? Is Golden really going to sue, or just support CARE if Care sues?

-Wabisabi

I think it's time to call Tony Soprano and get this thing taken CARE of. :)

Originally posted by wabisabi
From the Rocky:


If this means that Golden is going to file an appeal of the approval, then does this also mean that LCG cannot go forward? (I thought that if a government sues [unlike a lawsuit from CARE], that it does not have to put up money for an injunction.) Is an injunction automatic? Is Golden really going to sue, or just support CARE if Care sues?

-Wabisabi
Same questions I have. Actually I had hoped you, or someone else might know. I think it is a given that (S)CARE probably can't or won't file suit using their own funds since that would be Deb's pay check. Somehow I don't see her as excited about it if she has to foot the bill on her own. As a result, I think it is a given that they must find someone like the city of Golden to shell out the bucks and/or run the risks. I think the bottom line here is can a lawsuit by Golden stop the construction? I wonder if they can get a court order to stop things until it is settled, if not, I am not sure what the suit could accomplish. Any lawyers out there???

John,

I think LCG has this 'obligitory' lawsuit is their planning. They have quite a bit of non-physical, designing, planning, permitting etc. that they can do, even though they are going through the legal motions.

Kind of like what KWGN and KRMA did. Do all the prep work while the lawsuit goes on.

Ernie, Jetlag, et. al. (whoever al. is :) )

Did Dish ever come through with HDNet in an HD package?

Yeah Ron,
It started Tuesday. It's great!

The HD package is HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN-HD and DiscoveryHD. All for $9.95/mo. i think.