Originally posted by Jetlag
KMGH is sticky! ....... CH 17 now takes up to 15 seconds to display a picture. Not only that, I can not 'click' past 17 unitl the picture displays. Any ideas? None of the other channels do this. (JM, dr_mal, etc. need not reply ;) )

KMGH?? Channel 17???? 15 seconds???? Hey, I have waited several YEARS now and I still don't get a picture!

(Sorry Jetlag, but you just had to know I couldn't pass on a challenge like that one)
:D

Jetlag:

Just went and tried 17. No problems on quick lock and picture on 17-2 or 17-3 (I have a DTC-100 and am not using PSIP). KRMA is back after my email on Monday with no problems. KDVR still has a slight lip sync problem although it does appear this morning to be better than before. I didn't pay much attention last night during the WS to sound sync.

Originally posted by Jetlag
... CH 17 now takes up to 15 seconds to display a picture. I expect to be waiting 14 more months for a picture! ;)
(D@mn, Martinko beat me to it!)

OK, you had your fun...

Seriously is there a fix for this annoying problem?

"CH 17 - KMGH - now takes up to 15 seconds to display a picture. Not only that, I can not 'click' past 17 until the picture displays. Any ideas? None of the other channels do this and KMGH only started doing this recently."

Originally posted by Jetlag

Seriously is there a fix for this annoying problem? Yeah, it'll only cost <ahem> 400 thousand freaking dollars.......

Oh, behaaave.

Sorry, I hadn't had my fun yet....:)

As DennisMileHi suggested, if your receiver has the option, you might try shutting off the feature to get PSIP info off-air. The RCA has the option "Acquire Off-Air Guide On/Off"

Jetlag,

I'm not seeing the problem either. My 6000 takes no longer to lock onto 17 as the other locals. The 6000 can't do PSIP guide data, so that's not the problem. Is the fan in your 8VSB module still working? If not, it may be a heat buildup issue. Also, try rebooting the receiver by pulling out the smartcard and then reinserting it.

KMGH is having problems switching their 5.1 feed to their local 2.0 feed, and back. Everytime it switches, their encoder or something must be putting garbage into the signal as my 6000 and hipix cards both complately lose signal lock for a second or 2 before reacquiring it. I sent Rick a message about this this morning.

HEAR YE, HEAR YE, OH HEAR YE!
THE FOLLOWING IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT FOR LOCAL (DENVER AND SUBURBS) AVS FORUM MEMBERS!
WE HAVE BEEN INVITED TO TOUR THE HDNet FACILTIES!

Sorry we took so long with this, but the HDNet crew has been very busy installing new equipment and getting geared up for the hockey telecasts. As a result we have had a tough time trying to find a date when they expect to have a remote truck on the facility so we can include that in a tour. The last tour included a look at their broadcast rooms, the areas where the commercials and other visuals for the network are generated, and the remote truck(s) used for the sports telecasts we all enjoy watching. The tour was very informative and also a great chance to give them some direct feedback as to how you think they could improve their channels. In addition, this time, they of course now have the movie channels being telecast and of course are also doing more original programming than a few years back.

HDNet has suggested that we shoot for something on the afternoon of Wed., Nov. 5. Since most seemed to like the last tour in late afternoon (likely 4-5 PM) I think we will target that time again. It seems to work well in that most of us can get in a day's work, beat the rush hour traffic to get there, and get home early in the evening for other activities. I think the last tour took about 90 minutes, a lot depending upon the number of questions and discussions that come up.

I would like to get a tentative head count for those who can and want to attend this tour so we can decide if it is worth setting up. Please post back to the Denver Tower Thread (Denver Thread) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28456) if you are likely to make it to this tour. I will post the address and directions as we get close to the date. For those unfamiliar with HDNet's facilities, they are located on the grounds of of the old Stapleton Airport area east of Denver and are readily accessible from I70 and other freeways in the area.

Let me know if this sounds like a good thing. The tour is open to all in the AVS forum members in the Denver and Northern Colorado area. If it is not too full, we can invite members from Colorado Springs threads or others as well. Anyone interested????????

HDNet fact sheet page (http://www.hd.net/factsheet.html)



PS-THERE ARE ADDTIONAL DETAILS IN A NEW POST ON PAGE 291 OF THIS SAME THREAD. DIRECTIONS AND TIMES ARE INCLUDED THERE.

I'm in!!! (for 2 people)

I'd be interested, but I would need to be out of there by 5:30 or so to get to my teaching job. If 4:00 works for other people, that would be my choice.

Eric

Count me in!

I am in and would like to bring my 16 year old daughter who is doing video production in high school. The timeframe is fine.

You can count me in also.

I am interested in attending. As long as they don't surprise me with an unplanned trip...again .:mad:

Closer 5:00PM would be better than 4:00 PM for me... but I will try to work with whatever is best for the group.

Phil P.

Count me in if I am in town.

I just did a full reboot of my dish 6000 and rescanned the local digitals, good news; KMGH is now working fine AND I am now getting all 3 KBDI channels! I get 38-01 at about 69%, 38-02 at 72%, and 38-03 also at 72% although it only displays a fixed splash screen. The other two appear to be SD-DTV.

REMINDER:
Please read my note on page 288 concerning the details for the AVS tour at the HDNet studios and reply in this thread if you intend to be there.

I'm there, John! Thanks for putting this together.

Unfortunately, I'm out of town that week :( Bummer, I was interested in attending. Have fun everyone.

If I'm in town, I'm in for 1.

I won't be able to make this one. Thanks for setting it up, JM!

Would prefer the 4PM time as well.

Randy

JM,

Thanks for getting things setup for HDNet again, I won't be able to go unless it started at 3pm, since I have to be on the other end of town at 6pm.

Steve

Please consider taking the following Denver HDTV poll, here at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=316317

-Tim

I notice that KBDI is mapping to 12-1, 12-2 and 12-3 again. 12-2 isn't much use to me yet because I don't have any program listings for it. Hopefully they will get some info on their web site soon, and on other program listings services too. 12-3 has only the "coming soon" slide so far.

The other problem with 12-2 is that it has this huge "Camp KBDI" bug, even when it is not showing children's programming (evenings). I think I was watching the "News Hour" with Jim Lehrer, but on 12-2 it is the "News Ho" because the rest is obliterated by the "Camp KBDI" thing. I saw part of a show on Mecca that had subtitles which were half blocked by the bug. Hopefully they will come up with something smaller/transparent.

Otherwise it is very clean SD video and nicely synchronized audio, the latter which seems to be a real challenge at some stations. Hearing that they may also bring us some HD in the near future is fantastic. Congratulations, KBDI!

Mark

Currently I count about 10 folks who said yes and another 4 who had a qualifier (if I am in town etc.). Just a reminder, I would like to get that count up a little higher to make it worth their time folks. Again, we will take old members and new lurkers that haven't posted before. If you want to go, I really need a good head count. If you are a new poster and not sure about public posts send me a private message. I really want to firm up the head count this week if at all possible. Thanks.

(For those who missed the invitation, the post is on page 288)

Originally posted by JMartinko
....we will take old members What about young members?

Not sure I can make it to this shin-ding....even though I am an "old member" <sigh>....

I should start reading the Buffalo thread...it's likely I will be back there before Lookout gets going....

Originally posted by JMartinko
Currently I count about 10 folks who said yes and another 4 who had a qualifier (if I am in town etc.). Just a reminder, I would like to get that count up a little higher to make it worth their time folks. Again, we will take old members and new lurkers that haven't posted before. If you want to go, I really need a good head count. If you are a new poster and not sure about public posts send me a private message. I really want to firm up the head count this week if at all possible. Thanks.

(For those who missed the invitation, the post is on page 288)

I would like to go but work has me out of town next week.

Steve

I'd like to go too. Thanks for putting ot together

Happ

Does anyone have Pat Brus' email and phone number? I can't find his card and need to get in contact with him today. If you can help, please PM or email me. :)

And on a positive note, while channel flipping last night, I ended up on KDVR for a few minutes last night during Skin. It was the first time that I've seen KDVR with a perfect audio sync! Last week they were still off, and the San Fransisco-Arizona game on Sunday was hideously bad, but last night they were dead on. Here's hoping that it continues for the premier of 24 tonight!

Mark:

His email is pbrus@cbs.com. I have never called him.

Jm - Count me in for the tour of HDNet if it is set for Wednesday Nov 5th.

Reggie

Just got off the phone with Don Rooney about 1 minute ago.

Great news! The FCC approved their app last Thursday. Their antenna is installed on the tower, and KWGN-DT channel 34 should be on the air live on or about Monday, November 17th! The (s)CARE issues have been dropped, and they are forging ahead. Don said he'd drop by now that he'll have a little more free time to answer questions and give more details.

:D:D:D

Originally posted by markdl
Just got off the phone with Don Rooney about 1 minute ago.

Great news! The FCC approved their app last Thursday. Their antenna is installed on the tower, and KWGN-DT channel 34 should be on the air live on or about Monday, November 17th! The (s)CARE issues have been dropped, and they are forging ahead. Don said he'd drop by now that he'll have a little more free time to answer questions and give more details.

:D:D:D

Mark:

Man, you are quick!

KWGN is thrilled to get this approval from the FCC & are moving as quickly as we can to initate DTV service to Denver. We will be operating at 450kW ERP, providing the WB Hi-Def programmin in 1080i.

We look forward to getting feedback from this group once we are up.

Regards,
Don Rooney

That's great news Don. Congrats!
I'll bet you're glad you have that sCAREy part behind you. Have a beer (or two). :)
Looking forward to it (especially if your signal doesn't wipe out the KCNC signal).

Don,

Congratulations! Those of us outside of the immediate Denver area are looking forward to at last getting our first over-the-air HDTV.

Mark in Ft. Collins

Originally posted by markdl
.........
Great news! The FCC approved their app last Thursday. Their antenna is installed on the tower, and KWGN-DT channel 34 should be on the air live on or about Monday, November 17th! .........


:D :D :D
Congratulations Don and the KWGN folks!

Now if we can just figure out a way for KMGH to get on the air too! Still no signal up here in Boulder from them.

Woohoo!

Great news!! Can't wait to get some more hi-def!!

Congrats to Don and the rest of the team at KWGN!

Now a little question for Don. According to the thread, you guys have been practicing time shifting, etc. your digital signal. Is this an automated thing, or will someone be sitting there watching, waiting to "flip the switch" at the proper time? If the latter, is there a number to call to "remind" the operator when they forget?

In any case, I'm quite excited.

Eric

Congrats Don! This must have been a very trying time for you. Looking forward to checking out some HD WB!

If memory serves, KWGN is the Denver rights-holder for the Paramount HD-ONE package. Do you have any idea when we can start seeing these movies on channel 34?

Originally posted by mbuchana
Congratulations! Those of us outside of the immediate Denver area are looking forward to at last getting our first over-the-air HDTV. Ditto from Elizabeth. Now that the seasons changed, I no longer get KCNC, or KUSA, just KRMA oddly enough (with a smaller xmit antenna than the other two). And Faux, of course.

Keep us informed -- we'll be watching and anxiouly scanning our channel lists come Monday!

Originally posted by KWGN-DT


KWGN is thrilled to get this approval from the FCC & are moving as quickly as we can to initate DTV service to Denver. We will be operating at 450kW ERP, providing the WB Hi-Def programmin in 1080i.

We look forward to getting feedback from this group once we are up.

Regards,
Don Rooney

Don,

Any chance you'll be available in digital on Comcast any time soon?

Tim

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Mark:

Man, you are quick!

KWGN is thrilled to get this approval from the FCC & are moving as quickly as we can to initate DTV service to Denver. We will be operating at 450kW ERP, providing the WB Hi-Def programmin in 1080i.

We look forward to getting feedback from this group once we are up.

Regards,
Don Rooney


Congrats Don! Great news. I too am curious if/when you'll be showing Paramount HD-ONE package moviews on KWGN-DT.

Hmmm,

I thought I'd take DTV "score" in Boulder County. I thought I'd rank the stations on their DTV performance:

CBS (KCNC): I get Lock, lots of content. HD Leader among commercial stations.
PBS (KRMA): I get Lock, great pic. HD Leader among public stations.
FOX (KDVR): I get Lock. No HD, but having DT at a higher power and being around so long is a plus.
NBC (KUSA): I get Lock. Their past attitude cost them here. They should be above FOX with some HD and given FOX' lip-sync issues, but they just don't deserve it yet.
PBS (KDBI): I get Signal (but no lock yet, need to put in more effort with antenna).
WB (KWGN): I will be getting signal and lock within a month. I expect KWGN to move up my list once they actually start broadcasting at their "higher" power level.
UPN (KTVD): Apparently scrambling to go HD/DTV now that UPN has HD.
ABC (KMGH): Their attitude: "Don't live within 2 miles of our station, tough s**t, wait until LCGII, sucker! By the way, did you know we were 1st in Denver with an HD signal, too bad the only people who can get it are in our actual studio, at least the FCC is off our back."

Wow, it is pretty obvious which station has the cow-town, rinky-dink attitude. What's amazing is that it's the ABC affiliate. Can't imagine ABC is too thrilled about the leadership at their Denver affiliate. The can't-do attitude at KMGH has historically been matched by their poor ratings. Coincidence???

Did anyone else have trouble getting a lock on KDVR-DT last night for 24?

The signal strength on my DTC-100 showed mid-high 70s with my rooftop antenna and mid-high 50s with my rabbit ears. They've both been able to tune KDVR-DT in the past. But last night, even with signal strength in the 70s, my receiver said "Weak signal" and showed a black screen. Ended up having to watch in SD (but at least I was able to pause it occasionally to laugh out loud).

Flipped it on briefly during the intermission of the Avs game and had no trouble locking to the usual FOX High Resolution screen. I didn't watch the show, so I don't know if there were any issues with long term viewing. Anyone else?

Interesting rankings gkanders.

I'd put KUSA just above KMGH...their "HDTV leader" propaganda is so absolutely outrageous.

KRMA and KCNC are the real HDTV leaders - and the only two Denver stations I bother to watch.
Coincidence?
Nope.

And I do not believe it is coincidence that KMGH's ratings are related to it's "can't-do attitude at KMGH has historically been matched by their poor ratings". They get what they deserve.

Originally posted by dr_mal
Did anyone else have trouble getting a lock on KDVR-DT last night for 24? Didn't watch -- too busy staying up all night painting the theater! :)
It could have been due to the G5 solar event yesterday (not kidding). See here (http://www.msnbc.com/news/984388.asp?0ql=c9p).

I'd like to go to the HDNet tour, if it's not too late to sign up.

gkanders - Where in Boulder county are you? I'm on the east side of Longmont, and wonder if it's worth putting up an antenna. Could I expect to get CBS? KWGN?

And yes, four pages back, I meant the court hearings for the lookout tower. What is the next step?

Originally posted by Jeff Keene
I'd like to go to the HDNet tour, if it's not too late to sign up.

gkanders - Where in Boulder county are you? I'm on the east side of Longmont, and wonder if it's worth putting up an antenna. Could I expect to get CBS? KWGN?


No problem with the tour. I am still waiting to hear from my contact on a final time, but I plan to shoot for 4:00PM.

As for reception from up north, I am in the Heatherwood/Gunbarrel area in north Boulder and use a Radio Shack UHF only on my back porch to get everything except of course KMGH. I am fairly high on the south side of the hill on Lookout Road, so I have that help, but I do not have a line of site with Denver at all. Pretty solid signal on all of the stations as long as the wind doesn't blow the antenna pointing off. I have it facing downtown, but have no problem getting things on Lookout. Not a whiff from KBDI DTV on Squaw or KMGH although I haven't tried re-pointing my antenna to Squaw for the time being.

David - I had no problems locking onto KDVR for 24 last night, and the lip sync was very good for about 90% of the episode. It drifted off a couple of times, came back into sync very quickly.

Originally posted by Jeff Keene
gkanders - Where in Boulder county are you? I'm on the east side of Longmont, and wonder if it's worth putting up an antenna. Could I expect to get CBS? KWGN?


Hi,

I live in Lafayette, between 95th (Hover) and 287 just off of CO Hwy 7 (Arapahoe). I'd think you would have a good chance. I use an RS Double Bow Tie indoor antenna for my DTV. This is (indoor) on a shelf on the east side of my house pointing out a window. I get everything on this, but KDVR breaks up as we walk around (since Lookout is SW of here. When watching that, I switch my input (cheapo 3-way coax switch from RS) to my combo VHF/UHF outdoor antenna (RS) that I use to get analog TV. This is resting on the rafters above my garage (only 1 story up) which is on the west side of my house. With this antenna, KDVR comes in solid. I expect KWGN to act like KDVR in this regard.

I have an extra DBT I'm looking to sell if you are interested. It's inexpensive and works for me. It may work well for you to mount outside (or even if you leave it inside). PM me if interested. You may decide you need a CM 4221 or 4228 if this doesn't work. I think there are some Longmont folks on this board and/or the northern CO board. Maybe they can give you more info about what they see.

Originally posted by Jeff Keene
I'm on the east side of Longmont, and wonder if it's worth putting up an antenna. Could I expect to get CBS? KWGN?


There seems to be some sort of interference affecting east Longmont (east of main) that have proven to be insurmountable by whtevr (I think that is his handle) near 119 and myself (near 17th). There's a periodic drop out on KUSA (like every 10 minutes) and KCNC is just plain gone even though the signal is in the range that should provide a solid lock. Another poster near Hover and 17th (west of main) has no problems at all. The posts are about a dozen pages back if you want. PM me if you want to try a CM4248. It provided good service until recently, now it is folded back in the box.

I am a go for the HDNet tour on Nov. 5. Thanks JM.

Don

Count me in for the tour!

Sigh!
:o

Is it me or is this thread just not as much fun as it used to be. We are no longer 'scared' of (S)CARE! All we have to pick on is the lack of an ABC network affiliate in Denver, that Fox can't get their audio to synch up to the video, and KUSA can't figure out how to flip a d&mn format switch!

Oh yes, and remember the good old days before Ernie got married when he had permission to post to the thread????
:confused:

Ah, the good old days, eh!
:D

PS
I am having trouble reaching my contact at HDNet the last few days, but I will try to confirm our visit for 4:00 PM next week and also post the address and directions soon, so stay 'tuned'!

Well, we could change the name of the thread from "Denver HDTV Tower" to "Denver HDTV Militia"! It would'nt really change anything, but it sounds cool! We could call ourselves "operatives" instead of forum members and get badges, maybe even a secret handshake.....:D

Let's face it, the most exciting thing about HDTV is watching it (as long as there are no lip sync problems, drop outs, freezes, weak signals, bad content, etc)

Finally was able to confirm the dates and times with my contact at HDNet. It looks like 4 PM will be just fine. If you have trouble finding your way you can get help from Mapquest (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/)
if you are unfamiliar with the area. In addition, the message below indicated the final directions in the area can be found at HDNet/Colorado Studios (http://www.coloradostudios.com)
It sounds like there is a good chance we will see some shooting that day, which will be a lot of fun. If you have any more questions, post to this thread or PM me.



Here are the details as sent to me in his email.

"We can confirm Wed Nov 5 @ 4pm. 15-20 people should be just fine.
We will be shooting stand ups with our hosts for 'Across America' that
afternoon and may get to see some of that.
I have just learned that we SHOULD have up to 2 HD production trucks at
the facility that day.
The entrance to the facility has changed due to construction. I have
included a map. You can also find this map at www.coloradostudios.com
and click on the 'maps' button. Then follow the link to the 'Stapleton
Facility'."

Originally posted by Mgibsoj
There seems to be some sort of interference affecting east Longmont (east of main) that have proven to be insurmountable by whtevr (I think that is his handle) near 119 and myself (near 17th). There's a periodic drop out on KUSA (like every 10 minutes) and KCNC is just plain gone even though the signal is in the range that should provide a solid lock. Another poster near Hover and 17th (west of main) has no problems at all. The posts are about a dozen pages back if you want. PM me if you want to try a CM4248. It provided good service until recently, now it is folded back in the box.

As an update...I've lost pretty much all reception from KUSA and KCNC. I'm only getting Fox. There definitely must be something for us in east Longmont that is interfering. Does anyone know of anything that would cause this kind of interference? Signal strength shows 40 then 0 then 60 then 0 each for about 2 seconds then it repeats. Just curious...

I'm looking forward to KWGN getting up and going and I was able to get my waiver from the Cheyenne CBS station and am now getting a CBS HD feed from E* so at least I can get one network with HD content.

John, double sigh...

I no longer will be able to make the HDNet tour. Work training has reared its ugly head, and thus I will be stuck in a hotel conference room until 5 next Wednesday...

Oh well...

whtevr77- solution is to move further north to Fort Collins so that your reading will be 0 all the time - that will make it consistant :)

Reggie

It is definitely an east Longmont problem. Signals are strong with no dropouts over by Hover.

I can't make the HDNet tour either. Is HDNet programming available in the Denver area?

AFAIK HDNet is only available in the Denver area by satellite at this time. I do not know if Comcast has plans to include them in their HD offerings. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Oh yes, and remember the good old days before Ernie got married when he had permission to post to the thread????
Hi Guys! I just got back from Peru. I was there on a HD video shoot. A documentary on Mining and Sustainable Development. Very cool. So, no it's not being married that's kept me from posting (Sharons the best), just being out of the country for 2 weeks!

Congrats Don on KWGN getting approval. Can't wait to see you On-the-air!

Hello to everyone-
I'm brand new to the HDTV world - I was very happy to find this site!
I have a newbie question. Am I totally screwed if I want to see the Broncos MNF in HD tonight? I have Comcast - they don't offer CBS yet - I bought an antenna for my roof - I live just off 6th in Golden near the fair grounds. Am I dreaming by hoping to pick up the channel 7 HD signal from where I live?
Thanks for your help!
-Nate

Originally posted by A4Short
whtevr77- solution is to move further north to Fort Collins so that your reading will be 0 all the time - that will make it consistant :)

Reggie

Very true....that would almost be better. It's like having Porsche in the garage but no keys :)

Originally posted by santellavision
Hi Guys! I just got back from Peru. I was there on a HD video shoot. .....So, no it's not being married that's kept me from posting (Sharons the best)........

Uh.....yeh.......sure Ernie, of course you were off in Peru.....sure......Peru, 'that's the ticket'.......yeh......of course.......Peru! (Wink!;) Wink!;) ) Oh yeh....of course you have permission to go on the HDNet tour on Wed.........

Seriously, has Sharon said how often each week you will be "allowed" to post???
:D

Originally posted by ncopt
I bought an antenna for my roof - I live just off 6th in Golden near the fair grounds. Am I dreaming by hoping to pick up the channel 7 HD signal from where I live? Nate, I supposed there's a little chance where you are. It may depend on where and how high your antenna is, which HDTV receiver you have (how sensitive it is), and how well you "aim" your antenna to catch a whiff of KMGH-DT.

Originally posted by HDTimeShifter
I can't make the HDNet tour either. Is HDNet programming available in the Denver area?

Yes - on Directv and Dish.

Just checked and no sign of KWGN-DT yet, as of midday.

Probably a little early there, Ron. Don's post gave a date of November 17th for KWGN-DT.

Mark

Somehow I got stuck in my head it was THIS Monday. Oh,well, I can wait, I guess.

Don told me that the 17th was the day they have their final RF tests scheduled for, so there's about no chance that they'll be live before then. Have to have that signed off before they can start broadcasting.

KMGH supposedly tweaked their signal originally along 6th avenue toward the West. I know they were able to receive reliably from 6th and Simms. You might be OK, but you better get going with the antenna install. Don't fool around trying to get it to work in your attic or some such. With KMGH at such low powere, you will really NEED it on your roof aimed at downtown to even have a shot.

Good luck,
Jeff

Originally posted by RonAuger
Somehow I got stuck in my head it was THIS Monday. Oh,well, I can wait, I guess.
You finally made first post on the page! Congrats!

Yeah! You won't hear from me again for another, oh, 15 posters! ;)

John,

I wish I could make the HDNet tour, but I have to leave again Tues for a shoot in Phoenix.
I am really busy, knock on wood. Tim (Jetlag) wants to come over and do a shoot-out of the new Denon 5900 DVI DVD player vs. my Bravo D1 DVI player.

Anybody got a DVI switcher to help with the shoot-out, and would like to come over?

Hello all,
(see original post below) Thanks for the responces! I was able to install my new Radio Shack antenna on my roof yesterday. What a difference! Signal strength jumped up quite a bit with 9-1 and 6-1. Only problem - still no CBS (17-1 right?) - so no Broncos in HD! :( Question - does the height of the antenna make a difference? I could add another section to my boom, would that help - does higher equal better (with my antenna that is...)?


Original post = "Hello to everyone-
I'm brand new to the HDTV world - I was very happy to find this site!
I have a newbie question. Am I totally screwed if I want to see the Broncos MNF in HD tonight? I have Comcast - they don't offer CBS yet - I bought an antenna for my roof - I live just off 6th in Golden near the fair grounds. Am I dreaming by hoping to pick up the channel 7 HD signal from where I live?
Thanks for your help!
-Nate"

ncopt,

ABC is 17, not CBS. It may also appear as 7-1 on your receiver.
CBS is 35 or it may appear as 4-1 on your receiver.

Antenna height does matter, but at this point you ought to use the signal meter on your receiver to see if you are getting any signal at all for KMGH before trying to improve that signal with height or aiming.

I hate to say it, but your location in Golden might be blocked by the BC-BS building. It is just west of the KMGH building, and I think it may be a bit higher than their puny rooftop transmitter is. Anyone know for sure? FWIW, I raised my antenna about 10' last year, and it made all of the difference in the world. I hope you can prove me wrong RE BC-BS building height.

BC-BS building is MUCH higher than KMGH. It is probably 12 stories tall versus 5. I think everything NW of downtown would not be able to get KMGH. I am just lucky I live SE.

One more time, shame on them for just getting by to satisfy the FCC!

I received some info from Mike Dant at KTVD UPN20. Looks like you might see them on Comcast before OTA. (political difficulties? whatever could he possibly mean? ;) )
Ron;
We have submitted bids for DTV equipment in the studio. This would allow us to at least pass on DTV to Comcast since we have fiber connectivity to them.

Currently there is a 30 - 45 day delivery for most of it.
As for temporary transmission equipment I am awaiting feedback from our corp. people. I would guess that any difficulties are political. The delivery time on transmission equipment is about 60 days as of now.

Feel free to check back with me.
Here's the only website I've found that has notations for the HD shows on WB and UPN: 2003/2004 Fall Schedule (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dstarlin/hdtv/Fall.htm)

ncopt,

Receiving Low-power HDTV is a game of inches! Moving your antenna 2" in any direction (up, down, left, right) can make all the difference. Do you have a rotor on it? If not, maybe try just moving it a bit and see what happens.

Thanks again for all of the feedback. This forum is wonderful! I think I'm getting closer. Yesterday the only HD OTA channels that I was receiving were NBC and (a weak) PBS - I went out today and bought a new tripod roof mount (MUCH more stable than the tiny anchor mount that I had before) as well as another 5 ft section of mast. I installed everything this afternoon and now I receive CBS, FOX, NBC, and PBS - still no ABC but I have yet to tweak the direction of the antenna (need to wait for the wife to get home so she can direct me from downstairs). I'll let you know if I'm ever able to get ABC.
Thanks again!
-Nate

I hope I'm not out of line asking a technical question in this forum. Would a different antenna make much of a difference in my ability to try and receive ABC? I currently have a Radio Shack U-75R UHF ($22) outdoor antenna hooked up to a Mitsubishi SR-HD5 receiver.
Thanks!
-Nate

Would a different antenna make much of a difference in my ability to try and receive ABC?Yes, a bigger/better antenna will make a difference. Try the ChannelMaster 3023 or the 3021. I've had good luck with both.

Can't find them here in Denver, but on-line from Stark Electronics

Stark Website (http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmuhf.htm)

I have yet to tweak the direction of the antenna (need to wait for the wife to get home so she can direct me from downstairs).

I solved this problem with the Radio Shack rotor -- about $50 -- it doesn't talk back, is cheaper to maintain, and you do the directing rather than the wife....

I'm just west of Cheeseman Park using RS rotor that controls the RS's $22 UHF antenna in the attic. I get all the OTA signals, through our glazed tile roof, at "good" on Sony HD300. The rotor allows tweaking right at the picture --wife dispensable -- and indeed makes a big difference in sig. strength. Rather than try to find one position for antenna, which will be a compromise, the rotor allows tweaking to each OTA channel when necessary.

Will I have same success when these OTA transmissions move to LM Tower? Farther away, but greater signal? What's latest eta on the tower now?

JKM,

When they all go 'full power' anybody in the Denver Metro should get all the channels with very little effort, including just a small indoor antenna.

I think Ron or Mark (?) was keeping the pool on the date of the LCGII tower start. My date was 4/1/05. I think there's mention of a prize, like an Igloo cooler or Toaster-oven or something for the winner. ;)

it doesn't talk back, is cheaper to maintain, and you do the directing rather than the wife....

That is TOO funny! When I first got my DBS system I actually attempted the same thing aiming my DBS dish with a former girlfriend using Motorola walkie talkies. She watched the signal meter on the TV and I adjusted the dish. After about 1 minute I realized that it was a no-win situation, so I said "Thanks for the help honey!", and ordered a nice satellite finder meter as soon as I got off of the roof! :D

I think Ron or Mark (?) was keeping the pool on the date of the LCGII tower start. My date was 4/1/05. I think there's mention of a prize, like an Igloo cooler or Toaster-oven or something for the winner.
Ernie, I thought he said it would be a (Rod Roddey voice) BRAND NEW CAR!
JM, I don't have to fly, so could you PM me the directions to HDNET? 4PM, correct?

Just thought I would re-post the reminder for everyone here. This should answer JetLag's questions as well as any others. Hopefully the weather will co-operate this afternoon. The reports sound wet but OK.

BTW, if you were undecided or unsure if you could make it, feel free to show up even if you haven't posted an RSVP. We may lose a person or two do to weather or last minute conflicts, so it should be OK.

If you are not sure of how to get there you can get help from Mapquest (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/)
by typing in the destination address as 2300 Ulster. The final directions once you are in that area can be found at HDNet/Colorado Studios (http://www.coloradostudios.com) (see information below as well).
If you have any more questions, post to this thread or PM me, although I will be busy today before I leave so I may not get a chance to answer. Your best bet is a post here.


Here are the details from the email confirmation of our tour.

"We can confirm Wed Nov 5 @ 4pm..........
We will be shooting stand ups with our hosts for 'Across America' that
afternoon and may get to see some of that........we SHOULD have up to 2 HD production trucks at the facility that day.

The entrance to the facility has changed due to construction. I have
included a map. You can also find this map at www.coloradostudios.com
and click on the 'maps' button. Then follow the link to the 'Stapleton
Facility'."

What no tour report? How am I going to live vicariously thru this forum with no post???? :confused:

Great tour! :)

A big thanks to Karl and John for arranging this.

Unbelievable how thing have charged at HD Net in a year.

Two trucks and a tractor were in and being packed up to go out again.

I will let the others detail the technical side of things.

I would also like to pass along my thanks. I really thought the parting gifts were terrific, but having one of the bikini destinations girls as our tour guide was incredible! ;)

Lucky b*stards!!

:D

Dan

Originally posted by Jetlag
I would also like to pass along my thanks. I really thought the parting gifts were terrific, but having one of the bikini destinations girls as our tour guide was incredible! ;) Sounds like you'd better come down from Flight Level 3-9-0 and get some O2 Jetlag.....:p

Originally posted by Jetlag
I would also like to pass along my thanks. I really thought the parting gifts were terrific, but having one of the bikini destinations girls as our tour guide was incredible! ;)

Jetlag is sure right about that one. The thing that amazed me was how they went between buildings in the cold wearing only those tiny bikinis without getting goose bumps. I guess that is just a sign of how 'hot' they really were.
Talk about your "shock and awe" strategy!
:D

What bar did you guys go to after the tour? :)

Ernie's suggestion of a prize for the one who most closely guesses the opening day of the supertower is a good one, but as we have all heard, once the "full power" switch is flipped, no one in Denver metro will need a toaster oven ever gain.

Just hold the bread up to a line of sight window and the killer radiation will do the toasting for you.

Don't have a lot of time to spend here right now, but I will try to give a quick story of the tour. There were about 12 of us on the tour and it was led by Karl Siebrecht. The routes were similar to the tour last year but the changes were readily apparent. The master control room last year had about 4 monitors on the east wall with a desk in front. This time the entire south wall was full of monitors as well, probably with about 20 or so monitors in the room. In addition, there was a new desk along the north wall facing the monitors with about five Sencore Software Control Screens (?one of the video specialists might correct that, I wasn't taking notes) control monitors available along with two people working the evening shift. The monitors on the wall included HDNet, HDNet Movies, and the HDNet free channel sent to cable companies for display, as well as a Direct TV feed which they use to monitor the D* picture quality to see if they are compressing things. I heard them say that D* often muxes the signal which can increase BER, but they didn't really indicate that compression algorithms were used. They did say that they monitor it because D* does take their signal and process and re-format it, so that is why they monitor it.

After the control room, we went to the linear and non-linear edit rooms. These haven't changed much since last year and since Ernie wasn't there to ask the tough questions, we didn't spend a ton of time there. Karl noted that last year when we toured they had 2 non-linear edit rooms, but now they have 5 and they are 'booked' full time through March to keep up with the amount of work they have. Karl talked a lot about the travel and filming they have done recently including the fact they were working on editing the 'World Report' for next week which has a lot of footage from the fires in San Diego and LA.

Next on the tour was the trucks. One of the HDNet HD only trucks which we saw last year was there and packed to go, so we only stuck our heads in that one. Instead we toured the one of the newest HD/SD trucks they use. This one was being readied for use by Fox Sports for the Avs game tonight and the Nuggs game tomorrow at the Pepsi Center. It was a huge leap over the older truck. Instead of the monitors being on the front (cab end) wall, this truck had a side extension which pulled out to nearly double the floor space inside. The first third of the side wall of the truck was nothing but monitors, and I would guess there were at least 40-50 on the wall. There was a directors console behind that along with another two processing consoles for special effects and graphics behind that. The next third of the truck was the section for video tape and video editing. As before, this section was much larger and better equipped than the truck from last year. It was already packed up, but even so the amoung of video editing equipment was truly amazing. The last portion of the truck had the sound and the engineering section. Another interesting feature new in the truck was the back panel access. In order to gain more useful floor space, the monitor panels were all up to the side of the truck, and the outside of the truck had water tight doors along the entire length. This is how they access the patch panels and the backs of the monitors etc. Much more efiicient than the older trucks. We then went outside and saw the cab used to pull the truck. Last year, if you remember, they used a separate smaller vehicle for the satellite uplink. That dish and equipment is now mounted behind the cab just in back of the drivers bed. When the truck is place on the site, the driver can run the cab to a location clear of trees and they run the cables and put up the dish. A much more compact and efficient system.

After the trucks they took us to the studio where they film many of the introductions for their programs against the green screen. It was noted that the shots they often show from a rooftop in downtown Denver are actually shot in this room with the backdrop added later. They also had the sets still there for many of the programs that Colorado Studios produces as well (non-HDNet shows).

Somewhere during this part Jetlag disappeared with one of the Bikini girls for about 15 minutes. He told us he was 'filling out an application' to pilot their jet to their 'Bikini Destinations'. I am sure he will let us know if he 'gets the job'. Several of us also then filled out forms to apply to carry their luggage and help adjust their bikinis on location for them. :D

All in all it was a great tour and it was amazing to see how much the studios had changed in one year. After the tour we talked with Karl about possibly making this an 'annual' event in order to see the growth of HDNet through the years. Hey, as long as the 'girls' are there, it is worth the trip.

Hope others will pitch in with more detail, I have to do some work today too.
:D

JM, thanks for the compliment, but we both know that I was only gone for 3 1/2 minutes. I think Leonard must have slipped one of his little blue pills into my soda!

I would also like to thank John for arranging the tour and Karl for guiding us through the excellent tour. Don't know how it happened but missed the bikini's.

Originally posted by Lawood
I would also like to thank John for arranging the tour and Karl for guiding us through the excellent tour. Don't know how it happened but missed the bikini's. Methinks the other two "boys" were on Fantasy Island ;)

My thanks also to HDNet and Karl.

Heads up from KRMA for November HD. You can see the entire PBS HD schedule here: http://www.ptvdigital.org/dt2a_nov.html. The times, however, are EST.

The following programs will be fed in HD and can be seen on KRMA DT-18. All times are Mountain Time.

American Family
Sundays at 5:00pm
November 9-30, 2003

Nature "Kalahari- The Desert"
Sunday at 6:00pm
Nov. 9, 2003

Eye of the Beholder
Nov. 15 at 4:00pm
Nov. 16 at 4:00pm
Nov. 20 at 6pm, repeating 9:00pm
Nov. 21 at 8pm, repeating 11:00pm

Coyote Waits, An American Mystery Special
Nov. 16 at 7:00pm
Nov. 19 at 6:00pm

Skinwalkers, An American Mystery Special
Nov. 23 at 7:00pm

Crown of the Continent
Nov. 24 at 8:30pm

NOVA "Volcano Above the Clouds"
Nov. 25 at 6:00pm

Kiliminjaro, A Naked Planet Special
Nov. 25 at 7:00pm

Farm Aid 2003
Nov. 27 at 7:00pm

Damn, I really wish I could have made the tour. Sounds like it was a good time had by all, and especially Jetlag! :D

A comment on the upcoming PBS schedule - Skinwalkers is a really good movie. If you haven't seen it, it's worth watching, IMO. My wife and I both really liked it when it was on last year.

ncopt - I have a Channel Master 3023 antenna boxed up in my garage that you're welcome to try to pull in KMGH with. I'm at 2nd & Sheridan. If it works for you, I'll sell it to you for what I paid for it. Just let me know - PM here or email to markdl@dbstalk.com.

A big thanks to Karl and John for arranging this.

I echo this; Karl's enthusiasm rubbed off on all of us. I was very impressed with two major HD capabilities that they have developed. The first being the MPEG II server capability (something like 14 terabytes) and second the layout and packaging of their HD production truck design.

but we both know that I was only gone for 3 1/2 minutes

Jetlag, we all know that when a certain lady (K.K.) flashed her smile in between the two buildings; you exclaimed "Now that's what I'm talking about". After that I don't remember seeing you during the time we were in the truck bay but then you seemed to magically appear when the group went over to the studio, so it had to be longer than 3 1/2 minutes.

My request for next year is to attend a Hotlines episode shoot. That would work.

Don

Originally posted by JMartinko
After the tour we talked with Karl about possibly making this an 'annual' event in order to see the growth of HDNet through the years. Hey, as long as the 'girls' are there, it is worth the trip.

If there is another tour next year, I definitely will try to attend since I have not been there yet, even if I have to take off work, especially if the bikini girls are there again! ;)

It'd also be nice to have a tour of the LCG tower and new building when either is far enough along in construction.

Haven't been able to make either tour, sO I hope there is another, but with schedules, you never know.


Jeff

We're considering moving from Cherry Creek North to Grant Ranch. Does anyone have experience with picking up OTA HD signals from Grant Ranch? We get all the stations from Cherry Creek, even KMGH. Thanks.

Bob A.

Bob,

Most of the posters that have posted from the north side of town have at least some problems with receiving reliably north of town. I would definitely assume that you won't get KMGH after the move.

Jeff

When my sister and brother-in-law recently moved near the Littleton area, prior to actually buying the house we got up on the roof with a pair of binoculars and scoped it out. We could see RP, Lookout and enough of the downtown buildings (due to the house being on a small hill) to possibly get KMGH. I might suggest trying the same thing. Of course, KMGH is the tuff one. JM, you receiving it yet? :)

Originally posted by jeffden

Most of the posters that have posted from the north side of town have at least some problems with receiving reliably north of town. I would definitely assume that you won't get KMGH after the move.


I dont think he meant he was moving "North" from Cherry Creek. He meant moving from the Cherry Creek North area. Grant Ranch is down south at like Bowles and Pierce.

That said, at least a couple of us live due south of there by 2 or 3 miles and are able to get all the channels but getting 17 certainly isnt without hassles and borderline signal strength. As in bigger outdoor antennas and such.

17 is much more doable from anywhere on the south side than from the north but no matter what you do there still arent any guarantees. It really does seem like it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood. Obviously true line of sight to downtown (from the south) goes a long way. Thats why many people like even down in Highlands Ranch can get it if they really try even if they're a "whopping" 10 or 12 miles away.

Originally posted by Jetlag
.......Of course, KMGH is the tuff one. JM, you receiving it yet? :)

What's a KMGH???? Didn't that 'used to be' a TV station in Denver. I heard they are now off the air due to lack of interest!

Don't know about any areas down south, but I can assure you your receiver won't get a sniff in the Boulder area.

Has there been any news on the lawsuit in Jeffco brought by the city of Golden and the CARE folks against the Board of County Commissioners?

I live near Highlands Ranch Park Way and Broadway. I have a UHF only $20 Antennae mounted to my Chimney. I get KMGH with a range of good to very good on my SAT520 and even higher readings on my e86. I hardly get any breakups.

Greg - are you getting frequent audio drops on KMGH? Everytime I try to watch Alias or Threat Matrix or NYPD Blue, the first half of the episode is pretty clean, but the second half is plagued by audio drops from very short to seconds at a time. Video pixellation usually happens during the longer ones as well. Do you see this at all?

Dan,

Thanks, you are right. I only read, " The Ranch", missed the Grant part of his question. Well, guess that happens when the thread is on page 5 or so....

Jeff

Originally posted by markdl
Greg - are you getting frequent audio drops on KMGH? Everytime I try to watch Alias or Threat Matrix or NYPD Blue, the first half of the episode is pretty clean, but the second half is plagued by audio drops from very short to seconds at a time. Video pixellation usually happens during the longer ones as well. Do you see this at all?


I do get the occasional audio breakup, or picture pixelation. I actually record the signal (Replay TV) so I will say that it's the exception rather than the rule that the breakups make the show unwatchable. What's funny is, I've run the e86 and 520 picture by picture on my TV. When the breakups start, it happens on both units, which leads me to believe that it's not a reception problem, but a transmit problem (Since the 520 is suppose to be much better at reception). Maybe this is why KMGH doesn't want to add their HD channel to Comcast, they'll be forced to fix these glitches.
During an hour show, I might get 2 breakups (they always happen when someone is saying something important) I think last sunday's Alias had about 8 breakups all at strategic spots. per AVS forum last night's MNF breakups where a result of ABC. Everyone nationwide exerienced them.

It seems like most Denver channels are now broadcasting digital and will have more HD programs soon. My question, can I receive these where I live which is in Northglenn. I'm just north of 104th Ave and am about halfway between Federal Blvd. and I-25.
Which channels would I most likely get? I know Comcast may be adding some if I'm correct but I have DirecTV and hope to stay with that.
As well, if it's possible to get Digital what is the best antenna to look at? Should I get a rotor on it so I can rotate it for certain stations? As well, is there a place I can get to install it since I'm not good with this type of work, especially working on the roof of my house.
When is the current date for the lookout mountain towers? Is it somewhere around late 2004/early 2005? Thanks for any help.

Mark:

I get audio breakups occasionally on KMGH too. My family likes the 8 Simple Rules show and invariably we will get a breakup just when something important is being said. And, of course, I am forced by them to switch to the D* SD broadcast so we can understand what is being said.

On my Pioneer receiver, this usually happens when KMGH is trying to send a 5.1 Dolby signal. I can see the receiver lights going between Dolby ProLogic and 5.1 rapidly when the sound is gone or breaking up. When they transmit only Dolby 2.0 (as they did last night on MNF) I don't see the audio breakups. I have written them about this 5.1 problem with no response. Do they care? Of course not.

I got ride of my DTC-100 about 3 months ago. That unit would give me wobbling sound and audio pops with KMGH, it would last a minute sometimes, that was really irritating. I don't have this issue with the e86 or SAT520. When I get breakups with the new units, it's picture pix-elation accompanying a audio breakup. Never last more than a second or two.

My DTC100 is inside my F38310 TV so I am not real motived (yet) to get a new receiver. Probably would go for the Zenith based on what I have read.

I just finished watching my HD recording of Alias from KMGH ( 17 ) from this past Sunday night. I had one very brief audio glitch during the program, but two others during the commercials. I agree that they usually happen simultaneously with an SD problem. I checked and my Directivo also had an audio hiccup at the same point in the show.

Jeff

I just thought I'd chime in and let people know that I get a strong DTV signal from all three networks from my house at C470 and Kipling. I use a Channel Master 4248 antenna mounted under my deck. It's a garden level basement so the deck isn't very high. The antenna barely fits under it. The antenna is pointed directly into the backyard fence. I was very surprised it worked. It did not work in the attic. I think the signal couldn't get though the stucco. I don't get Fox. I'm sure I could if I turned the antenna toward Lookout then I would, but I don't think I'll mess with it for now.

Originally posted by Serotta
I use a Channel Master 4248 antenna mounted under my deck.

And why is the antenna at ground level, instead of outside on the roof?

Originally posted by markwco
It seems like most Denver channels are now broadcasting digital and will have more HD programs soon. My question, can I receive these where I live which is in Northglenn. I'm just north of 104th Ave and am about halfway between Federal Blvd. and I-25.
Which channels would I most likely get? I know Comcast may be adding some if I'm correct but I have DirecTV and hope to stay with that.
As well, if it's possible to get Digital what is the best antenna to look at? Should I get a rotor on it so I can rotate it for certain stations? As well, is there a place I can get to install it since I'm not good with this type of work, especially working on the roof of my house.
When is the current date for the lookout mountain towers? Is it somewhere around late 2004/early 2005? Thanks for any help.

I live at 112th and Sheridan. I can get Channel 4(DT 35), 6(DT 18), 9(DT 16), 31(DT 32) at about 60 to 70%(Dish Model 6000) with a CM4228 mounted on the South side of my house 8 feet above ground level. The antenna is pointed directly to down town. As for channel 7(DT 17). No signal at all(you need a direct line of sight to get this channel). If I pointed my antenna to Lookout would get a stronger signal on DT32(Fox), but would lose the others. Should be getting channel 2(DT 34) soon. This signal will also come from lookout. As for the towers thats what it looks like however there is a law suit pending. A lot may depend just what is between you and down town. In some cases it is just trial and error. That what I ran into. I tried a CM3021 and a PREAMP first just to many breakups. You can PM me if you have more questions.

Originally posted by mrvideo
And why is the antenna at ground level, instead of outside on the roof?
For asthetic reasons.

Originally posted by Serotta
For asthetic reasons.

I don't consider antennas on roofs as being unasthetic. It kinda makes them work better :D
More so when a rotor is needed. This coming from a guy who has two BUDs in his backyard:

http://vidiot.com/images/satdish/sat323.jpg

I have to replace my antenna with a stronger one and put it on a rotor. Gotta do that soon before winter sets in and the WB affiliate goes on the air with DTV.

Talked to Don Rooney this morning. He said that everything was still on track for KWGN's launch next Monday. If the sweep test goes well, channel 34 will be on the air Mondayn night. If they have to tweak anything, it may not be until Tuesday, but he sounds confident and happy! :D

My fingers are crossed to not lose 35 when they ( KWGN 34 ) go live.

Jeff

channel 34 will be on the air Mondayn night

It will be interesting to see if Don throws the 1080i switch for Everwood at 8:00. I do have a question; will history be made in that will this be the 1st high definition broadcast off of Lookout Mtn?

Anyway, Ernie, I hope your Dish CBS waiver is in order because you just might have to say so long to channel 35 for a while. I am also looking forward to Geof's report of 34/35 co-existence as well.

I hope you don't like CSI Miami as much as I do.

Don

Yeah, I have the Dish CBS feed, so i'm covered. I hope it doesn't over-power 35 though. I would hate to have to stay up til midnight.

What would make you guys think that 34 will interfere with 35? I forget what the technical term is, but shouldn't the nature of the digital signal make 'channel selectivity' a non-issue, even with a big signal power difference?

...or are you saying this because you live near Lookout Mtn, and your ch. 35 is already marginal?

Wouldn't keeping your antenna pointed downtown help?

Thanks for bringing me out of 'lurk' mode.... grrr...

cheers,
Dom

I definitely want to get an antenna and likely a rotor (since it seems sometime I may want to point downtown, other times Lookout mountain). Is there a specific place I should order from online or a specific antenna I should look at?
As well, is there anyone in Denver who installs these? I know I'll pay a bit but I'm not good at this type of work or working on the roof. I'd like it if I can buy an antenna on my own and then get someone to install it but I know I may have to buy from the installer.

markwco,

try this place for antennas: http://www.warrenelectronics.com/

Reggie

Anyone know what, if any, channels are available from Colorado Springs and where the transmitter locations are. Live in Castle Rock, so would think I could receive some but to date none have showed up when I do a channel scan. Of course, any is pointed towards Denver (but some gain should still occur off backside of beam if any stations were line of site).

Thanks!!!

Originally posted by markwco
I definitely want to get an antenna and likely a rotor (since it seems sometime I may want to point downtown, other times Lookout mountain). Is there a specific place I should order from online or a specific antenna I should look at?
As well, is there anyone in Denver who installs these? I know I'll pay a bit but I'm not good at this type of work or working on the roof. I'd like it if I can buy an antenna on my own and then get someone to install it but I know I may have to buy from the installer.
I used Alpine Electronics (303) 366-5992. Grand total was somewhere around $250 or $260 including a new antenna. I didn't need a rotor, so I don't know how much extra that would add. And they would've been perfectly happy to install my existing antenna, but it was missing some arms and I figured I didn't want to have to pay him to come back if reception was borderline and I wanted a new antenna mounted.

Keep in mind you may not need a rotor depending on where you are -- the signals coming off Lookout are strong enough that you shouldn't need to point right at them. Of course, from Brighton, downtown and Lookout are pretty close to the same direction anyway, so I may not know what I'm talking about :)

Skyview-
I am able to receive the HD signal from KKTV in Colorado Springs (CBS). On my Samsung TS-160 it maps to channel 11-1 and on the Panasonic box it maps to channel 10.
My antenna is a CM3021 pointed towards downtown Denver so I must get the signal through the "back" of the antenna. I receive a stronger signal from KKTV than I do for any of the Denver stations located on the Republic Plaza Tower
The ABC affiliate in CS is KRDO and there is conflicting reports on when they may start to pass through the HD signal. Some say this month, others say next summer sometime. I'm betting on the latter. It should be located on UHF channel 24 when it goes live.

What would make you guys think that 34 will interfere with 35?

Adjacent 8-VSB channels should be co-located with similar power. At the Lookout tower picnic, one of the broadcast engineers stated that channel 34 interference of channel 35 would probably be limited to the immediate Lookout Tower area, namely the Lakewood / Golden area. We have to remember that channel 35 is running fairly low power and channel 34 will be at half power.


8-VSB signal can place about 19.3 Mbps of payload data in a 6 MHz channel, but to do this, the signal level must be about 15 dB higher than the noise level. This 15 dB is known as the noise threshold. If the signal level goes down so that it is only 14 dB above noise, the picture disappears, which is the so-called “cliff effect.” (By the way, the European COFDM signal requires about 4 dB more signal strength, or a 19 dB noise threshold, to produce a picture from a 19 Mbps signal.) But a less complex modulation method, such as 2-VSB, would produce a picture when the signal level is only 8 dB above noise. Two problems: this less complex modulation method would be able to carry only 8.6 Mbps in a 6 MHz channel instead of 19.3 Mbps, and receivers already in use would not be able to receive such a signal

Well, I guess the proof is in the pudding as to how much adjacent channel noise channel 34 provides... we shall see in a couple days if anyone currently receiving channel 35 is affected.

Don

I live in Lowry and am new to OTA HDTV. I was wondering if anyone else in the central area had success using either an indoor antenna (like the Silver Sensor) or a clip-on type that mounts on a satellite dish. Any other recommendations on a minimally obtrusive antenna to get the job done?

Thanks Iwanthd.... not having any luck... perhaps my uhf beam just not getting enough signal off the backside... again thanks for response.

Originally posted by JMartinko
What's a KMGH???? Didn't that 'used to be' a TV station in Denver. I heard they are now off the air due to lack of interest!

There's nothing worth watching on ABC except MNF, and since there's no more Broncos MNF, there's no reason to tune to KMGH until next season.

Skyview-
Don't give up yet. Yesterday I updated my guide with a primary Zip Code in Denver and a secondary zip in Colorado Springs. KKTV-DT in Colorado Springs now maps to 24-1 which the guide indicates is KMAS. I couldn't begin to explain why this has happend, I can only say that my Masters degree in Hide and Seek and the minor in HDTV obsession is finally starting to pay off.
Try updating the guide, rescanning for locals, and then check 24-1.

KKTV-DT is digital channel 10, KRDO-DT is channel 24. I can get channel 10 here in Castle Rock, I haven't tried for KRDO-DT yet, although When I tried awhile back, I got KRDO's analog station..

KMAS is in the mountains, don't know why it's on my guide. KREG is on there too.

Originally posted by acousticbiker
I live in Lowry and am new to OTA HDTV. I was wondering if anyone else in the central area had success using either an indoor antenna (like the Silver Sensor) or a clip-on type that mounts on a satellite dish. Any other recommendations on a minimally obtrusive antenna to get the job done?

Acousticbiker,

I have a RadioShak UHF-only Yagi antenna mounted on a 10' mast. I get everything except ABC/17-1 out here in Aurora. Here's a link:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160

I think it's about 40" in length, not monstrous.

Good luck!

Don't Forget Everybody...

Tonight is the debut of KWGN DT-34!!!!!
First one to post when they are on-the-air wins a Beautiful Igloo Cooler.
(just kiddin') ;)

Originally posted by squidboy
Woohoo!

Now a little question for Don. According to the thread, you guys have been practicing time shifting, etc. your digital signal. Is this an automated thing, or will someone be sitting there watching, waiting to "flip the switch" at the proper time? If the latter, is there a number to call to "remind" the operator when they forget?

In any case, I'm quite excited.

Eric

Thanks for the kind words.

We are in the process of automating the switch between native HD & upconverted.

Don

Originally posted by santellavision
Don't Forget Everybody...

Tonight is the debut of KWGN DT-34!!!!!
First one to post when they are on-the-air wins a Beautiful Igloo Cooler.
(just kiddin') ;)

Ernie (& AVS Forum Folks):

Dielectric dropped the ball & failed to get us one last piece of transmission line (an elbow) so it looks like we will be delayed. We are in the process of trying to track it down, but it doesn't look good for tonight.

The line & antenna have been swept & are ready for power once the elbow shows up.

The anticipation is KILLING me!

I was hoping for the cooler, but I guess i don't qualify :-)

Don

Originally posted by donyoop
It will be interesting to see if Don throws the 1080i switch for Everwood at 8:00. I do have a question; will history be made in that will this be the 1st high definition broadcast off of Lookout Mtn?

Anyway, Ernie, I hope your Dish CBS waiver is in order because you just might have to say so long to channel 35 for a while. I am also looking forward to Geof's report of 34/35 co-existence as well.

I hope you don't like CSI Miami as much as I do.

Don

Don:

KWGN-DT will be passing all 11-1/2 hours of weekly 1080i programming that The WB is providing to us. The schedule is below:
***************************
THE WB NETWORK BLAZES THE HI-DEFINITION TRAIL, WITH MORE THAN DOUBLE THE HDTV OFFERINGS FROM A YEAR AGO

NETWORK TO BROADCAST 11 1/2 HOURS OF
HI- DEFINITION PROGRAMMING PER WEEK

The WB Primetime Schedule:

Monday
7:00-8:00 p.m. "7th Heaven"
8:00-9:00 p.m. "Everwood" (HDTV)

Tuesday
7:00-8:00 p.m. "Gilmore Girls" (HDTV)
8:00-9:00 p.m. "One Tree Hill" (HDTV)

Wednesday
7:00-8:00 p.m. "Smallville" (HDTV)
8:00-9:00 p.m. "Angel" (HDTV)

Thursday
7:00-7:30 p.m. "Steve Harvey's Big Time"
7:30-8:00 p.m. "The Jamie Kennedy Experiment"
800-830 p.m. "What I Like About You" (HDTV)
830-900 p.m. "Run of the House" (HDTV)

Friday
7:00-7:00 p.m. "Reba" (HDTV)
7:00-8:00 p.m. "Like Family" (HDTV)
8:00-8:00 p.m. "Grounded for Life"
8:00-9:00 p.m. "All About the Andersons" (HDTV)

Sunday
EasyView
4:00-5:00 p.m. "Tarzan" (HDTV)
5:00-6:00 p.m. "Everwood" (HDTV)

Primetime
6:00-7:00 p.m. "Smallville: Beginnings" (HDTV-**)
**-Season 2 episodes only.
9:00-8:00 p.m. "Charmed"
8:00-9:00 p.m. "Tarzan" (HDTV)

Don

I've never seen any of these shows, I'll check them out when the station comes on line. Who says HDTV doesn't generate revenue (KMGH). Come on Elbow show yourself!

Originally posted by KWGN-DT

Dielectric dropped the ball & failed to get us one last piece of transmission line (an elbow) so it looks like we will be delayed. We are in the process of trying to track it down, but it doesn't look good for tonight.

The line & antenna have been swept & are ready for power once the elbow shows up.

Don

Oh no, not the dreaded "flange"..... We know from KMGH that these cost $400K! :D

AAAaaaakkkk! Not another "flange" problem!!!! Please Don, tell us that the elbow isn't going to be need to be specially machined, and that we are still 9 months out from getting it!!! :D

Bummer about tonight. I'll be happy though, if you are running by Wednesday for Smallville and Angel!

I think Jello should get the 'Igloo Cooler' for the first reference to the 'flange'. - HAHA!

If you go to www.dielectric.com, you can see a blueprint of the dreaded flange on the main page. Guess they have problems with elbows as well.

Thanks Don, for publishing the WB HDTV lineup. We are looking forward to these 1080i broadcasts from Lookout.

Don

And here I didnt go to Calif Governor Schwarzenegger's swearing in ceremony today, just so I could see a new signal come on the air!!!! Now Im really mad!!!!

Good luck getting the parts you need, and look forward to the new signal. How bout being the first local station to have HDTV news!!!

Don told me this afternoon that they are hoping to get the elbow tomorrow, and be on air by tomorrow afternoon. :)

Live in Castle Pines North. Are you guys in Castle Rock using the $19.00 Radio Shack UHF antenna or are u using something special. Whats a CM3021?? Would really appreciate your help. Apprehensive . Gary

Will KWGN-DT on Lookout Mtn. be at FULL power so someone in Ft. Collins could pick it up, or will it only be enough juice to meet the very, very, very low FCC requirements??

Also, is this station planning on running the HD broadcasts at full bitrate with no dreaded sub channels hogging the space?

HD isn't even out of the gate and already some broadcasters are messing things up!!

Dan

Dan,
KWGN will be at 1/2 power. You might have a chance up in FC picking them up.

Gary,
CM3021 is a Channelmaster outdoor UHF antenna. Check out www.starkelectronics.com. They carry Channelmaster UHF antennas. I recommend them highly.

Gary, antenna here is a Radio Shack UHF only beam, was priced either 19 or 29, cant remember, pointed north. Get all the Denver's except Ch 7! But no Colo Sprgs. Location is on high ground just northeast of Castle Rock about 4 miles.

Gary ,
I am also in CPN. I use the aforementioned Channel Master 3021 on my roof. I bought it at True Value Hardware for $22. I have my antenna pointed towards downtown and I can receive KUSA-DT 9-1, KDVR-DT 31-1, KRMA-DT 6-1 and I get spotty results with KCNC-DT 4-1. I get my strongest signal from KKTV-DT (CBS) in Colorado Springs through the back of my antenna. For some unknown reason it maps incorrectly to 24-1, but it is a good signal.
Don't be apprehensive. Go out, buy an antenna, climb up on your roof and drive yourself nuts like the rest of us!

Don't be apprehensive. Go out, buy an antenna, climb up on your roof and drive yourself nuts like the rest of us!That made my day!

Comcast upgraded my service last night to include the new HD channels. My initial impression is that the video quality is very good, but the audio is lacking.

To get the HD channels, they upgraded my cable box to a newer version (Motorola), which has component, s-video, and composite outputs.

I used the component output to connect directly to my RCA F38310, and the s-video output to connect to my TiVo. Thankfully, the box simultaneously outputs on both connections, so I don't have to tell the box to switch outputs.

To my surprise, the box downconverts the HD channels to s-video (letterbox), so my TiVo can record these in SD if need be.

I used the KRMA-DT loop to compare the OTA picture with the Comcast picture. The main difference that I can see is that the Comcast picture seems to have a slightly less bright/dark range. (i.e. shadows are deeper and highlights have more detail on the OTA broadcast.) Otherwise, the Comcast picture looks great.

The audio is another story. This may be due to the fact that I'm just running RCA jacks to carry analog L/R audio to my receiver, which is an older dolby surround system. I didn't have too much time to check other shows or play with the audio configuration, but I couldn't detect any surround effects when tuned to the cable.

So, I guess my impression of the video quality is 'thumbs-up' but the jury's still out on the audio. :-/

FYI, Comcast is currently carrying the following HD channels:
Showtime-HD (premium)
HBO-HD (premium)
ESPN-HD
PBS - KRMA (ch. 6-1)
NBC- (ch. 9-1)
FOX - (ch. 32-1)
a HD-PPV preview channel
couple of HD-PPV channels.

cheers!

Gettin action on 34 at about 1:15 Signal strength is fluctuating on a Mitsu SR-HD5 from 37-51. For reference I get 32 at about 65. At Chatfield and Wads antenna pointing about 90 degrees away from Lookout towards downtown.

Getting mid 50's SS on Dish 6000. Programming is a stretched version of Maury. Big ass WB2 logo on lower right.

Same here. Fluctuating (no lock) on DT34 from Genesee. And haven't lost 35 yet either!

That can't be 500,000 watts? I get a great signal from 32 on lookout.

Now they''re showing a true 1080i tape of the 2003 Rose Parade from KTLA. Looks awesome of course.

Signal strength readings still about the same.

I'm getting 34 with a signal strength of 68-70 (highest one I get by a bit) and they are showing a tape of HD Pasadena Rose Parade. PQ looks good but a little washed out. Probably the initial recording.

The station shows up as 34-3 on my DTC-100. I am just SW of CC state park. Antenna is pointed slightly west of downtown in order to maximize 17. Basically a straight shot at Lookout. No effect on 35 whatsoever.

I'm picking up the Parade on 34-3 as well. I'm at I-25 and 20th St. and needed to swing around my UHF only 4248 antenna from downtown (no problems picking up 35) towards lookout.

Michael

On Tuesday November 18, 2003, at 1:20pm MST, KWGN-DT Channel 34 began serving the Denver market.

Thanks go out to our Engineering team at KWGN.

Tonight, we plan on airing all of the WB prime schedule in 1080i HDTV.

WAHOOOOOO ! ! ! ! !

Don

I was wondering why I had a sudden headache at about 1:30. Must be all that extra radiation ;)

Seriously, congrats Don and all the staff at WB2 who worked so hard to make this happen. I'm sure this week as we sample WB's HDTV programming, we'll appreciate all the practice switching you guys have done over the last several months.

Great signal here in Castle Rock! Audio seems down a bit, but perhaps its just the parade tape.

I can't get a lock up here in Genesee!!!!
Don, Are you using a highly-directional antenna? Am I on the backside of that pattern?
I may go adjust my antenna, but I hate to lose my Republic signals.

Congratulations to KWGN, the first station to actually broadcast HD from Lookout. I can almost hear all the sirens from the ambulances heading to Lookout now to scrape the burned flesh from the dead bodies that must be all over the mountain by now. Seriously, this is a great day for Denver, of course all the other major cities had their 'first regular HD telecasts' 2 or 3 years ago, but what the hey, its Denver! Can't wait to get home tonight to scan and see what if anything, this does to KCNC in the Boulder area. I think the directionality from up here for our high gain antennas needed to sniff KCNC will likely help keep the KWGN signals from causing problems. We shall see.


Originally posted by dbucciar
Comcast upgraded my service last night to include the new HD channels.

FYI, Comcast is currently carrying the following HD channels:
Showtime-HD (premium)
HBO-HD (premium)
ESPN-HD
PBS - KRMA (ch. 6-1)
NBC- (ch. 9-1)
FOX - (ch. 32-1)
a HD-PPV preview channel
couple of HD-PPV channels.

cheers!
dbucciar
I see you get the same signal strength for KMGH that most of the rest of us using OTA set ups do. Congratulations KMGH!


EDIT:
Wow the top of the new page, sorry Ron.

Originally posted by santellavision
I can't get a lock up here in Genesee!!!!
Don, Are you using a highly-directional antenna? Am I on the backside of that pattern?
I may go adjust my antenna, but I hate to lose my Republic signals.

Just installed my new ChannelMaster 3023 (a little windy on the roof today). Still no signal from KMGH! Maybe I'll go higher! I'm only picking up a SLIGHT blip from KWGN here in Golden (I'm located at about 6th and Indiana). I agree with santellavision - I could adjust my antenna, but I hate to lose my Republic signals. Question - isn't KDVR broadcasting from lookout? If so, why can I get their signal (with great strength) with my antenna pointed downtown and barley get the new KWGN signal from lookout? Also, I'm curious to know if anyone knows what/why I'm getting a slight blip of a signal on channel 38? What is channel 38? Thanks for your help!
-Nate

DT38 is KBDI12 (PBS) from Squaw Mt.

Originally posted by santellavision
I can't get a lock up here in Genesee!!!!
Don, Are you using a highly-directional antenna? Am I on the backside of that pattern?
I may go adjust my antenna, but I hate to lose my Republic signals.

Yes, we are using a directional antenna. We are also at a lower height than KDVR.

Don

Originally posted by dr_mal
I was wondering why I had a sudden headache at about 1:30. Must be all that extra radiation ;) You'll have trouble sleeping now too:)

Congrats to Don and KWGN....

Question for Don.....are you cranked up to 500KW (or whatever your limit is) or are you going to be "stepping on the gas" a little bit at a time???

If you're not at "full power" what is your estimated ERP and can you share the plans for when it will be increased?

Great googly moogly! Getting 82 signal level for KWGN-DT and appears as 2-1 with call letters on both my RCA-DTC100 and my Sony HD200. Of course, from Elizabeth, everthing is the same direction for me: Lookout, Morrison, Squaw, downtown. And I have no less of signal from KCNC: it's always borderline for me in the winter and it still is.

Congratulations Don and all at KWGN. The significance of your DTV broadcast wasn't noticed by me until someone mentioned it yesterday: the first HD broadcast that is more than low-power- from anywhere!

Others claim to be first -- but I still haven't seen their signal!

Well, I've just tried spinning my big 'ol Channelmaster over toward Lookout and when I aim it exactly at KWGN's tower, I can get a lock at only 60 (dish 6000) But, as I feared, I lose 16, 18 & 35 totally. Not good!

Hey Don, remember when I testified at JeffCo that a directional antenna is good thing for Lower RF on Lookout... Well, I never meant NO RF! :(

Originally posted by Geof
Congrats to Don and KWGN....

Question for Don.....are you cranked up to 500KW (or whatever your limit is) or are you going to be "stepping on the gas" a little bit at a time???

If you're not at "full power" what is your estimated ERP and can you share the plans for when it will be increased?

We are currently at 450kW ERP.

As far as full power (1MW) - we are still working through some local zoning issues. Time frame unknown.

Don

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
We are currently at 450kW ERP.

As far as full power (1MW) - we are still working through some local zoning issues. Time frame unknown.

Don Thanks Don. The 450KW ERP figure is what I was wondering...I didn't know if you were going to gradually throttle up to that figure or just go full bore to 450.....thanks for the info.

Ah, gee,......I guess I'll just have to go home and try to see if I can get KWGN DT....twist my arm....;)


Ernie,
Just curious - what would you estimate for the angular difference between pointing your antenna downtown vs the KWGN tower?

As some who have seen my location. To get Republic, I have to point slightly south of it to get locks on those three channels. To get KWGN, I have to point almost 90 degrees North. I may have to go the 'rotor route'. I can't believe it's that directional. And it's interesting that Nate (ncopt) can't get them at 6th & Indiana too?

Just spoke to my dad, and he can receive KWGN in Aurora with a CM3021 at over 90 on his Dish 6000!

I don't want to hear (S)Care (remember them?) complain of too much RF on Lookout!

Don,

I was curious if WB2 will be offering "Everybody Loves Raymond" in HD for those shows that were Transfered in 1080I.

I had also heard that the WB2 purchased the rights to the Paramount HD movie package. Is this true and if so when can we expect to see some HD movies? Will they be in Dolby Digital 5.1?

-Matt

KWGN = 85% woohoo!

Originally posted by santellavision
I may have to go the 'rotor route'. I can't believe it's that directional. And it's interesting that Nate (ncopt) can't get them at 6th & Indiana too?

Looks like it's the 'rotor route' for me as well. I just spent some time playing with my antenna (WAY too windy and dark now for any further experimentation). If I point it at lookout (180 degrees the other way) I get a FULL STRENGTH signal from both KDVR and KWGN, however, I completely lose all Republic channels. Please let me know if you have any suggestions on the best rotor setup. Thanks!
-Nate

EDIT: I currently have a tripod setup - is it possible to go with a rotor?

Anybody else here have a Samsung SIR-T151?

I tried changing to 34 to check it out, and it killed my STB. It is in some weird loop where it seems to be rebooting itself. I left it unplugged for 15-20 minutes to see if it would clear itself, but it still has the same problem. I'm going to leave it unplugged overnight to see if it works any better tomorrow.

I'd be really interested to hear if anyone else has had a different experience with the T151 (or any other Samsung).

Thanks!

Eric

Ncopt, if you get full strength from your location on the 2 from Lookout another option would just be a cheap A/B switch (or for a few bucks more one that's remote controlled instead of manual) and a cheap UHF antenna that you could use as a set top unit to go along with the bigger outdoor one you might use. Then just switch between the 2 antennas as necessary. Might be cheaper and less hassle than a rotor.

I can get the 2 from Lookout with a small set top antenna just as well as I get them on my big antenna that points downtown, simply because obviously I can aim it right at Lookout (about 60-65% for the 2 channels in either case).

Just got home and ran a scan with a Zenith T520 and found KWGN no problem. Signal Strength is well in the 90% range and I show no impact on my KCNC reception. I am, however, getting some serious artifacting (i.e. picture freeze) every 5-10 seconds.

Grrrr...I get a 5 signal strength on KWGN from 2nd and Sheridan with my Ratshack antenna pointed downtown...From this position I get a solid 65 to 70 on KDVR...

Looks like I'm going to have to try to do a little adjusting to see if I can get the back of this antenna to pick up KWGN as well. If that doesn't work, then I'll have to consider the switch method.

Sigh... :(

Anybody got a CM3021 lying around? I might try a different antenna as that might be a bit less directional the the CM3023. Also, did I read that someone bought a Channelmaster locally? I didn't think there was anybody selling them.

Originally posted by santellavision
As some who have seen my location. To get Republic, I have to point slightly south of it to get locks on those three channels. To get KWGN, I have to point almost 90 degrees North. I may have to go the 'rotor route'. I can't believe it's that directional. If I understand correctly that means at least a 90 degree difference. The big directional antenna you have probably has a significantly less gain with signals arriving 90 degrees from the pointed position. You may have luck with just a moderate antenna pointed towards Lookout and use an A-B switch as suggested above. You may even be able to get away with a indoor setup - I just cannot believe KWGN isn't throwing some power westward.

Don't forget trying to tilt you antenna for best signal level

-----

KWGN is booming in at 100% for me (same as KDVR). This is from the antenna pointed towards downtown. It must be really great on my second antenna pointed towards Lookout.

KCNC is at 37-44 but I don't think this has changed since last evening. It's getting iff'y - I may have to tweak my antenna or get a more sensitive receiver.

So far I've only experienced 2 or 3 momentary dropouts on KWGN and none during Will and Grace.

-----

Does anyone know who to contact at DirecTv to request they update their database to add KWGN to the APG?

-----

KWGN Don
- Our Comcast Cable HD brethren may be wondering if your signal will be offered on Comcast in the near future - do you know?

- The WB logo is gone right now but it was pretty big when I saw it. Kudo's to you and KWGN for making it semi-transparent but could you make it a bit smaller?

I've got about a 92 signal strength for KWGN-DT :) Thanks and congrats to everyone there once again for all their hard work.

I've already contacted DirecTV about adding KWGN-DT to their APG.

Solid 80% signal here in Greeley!! This is the first and only OTA HD channel I can receive up here (I can get Fox and the CBS out of Cheyenne which STILL isn't sending any HD)!!

Way to go KWGN!!

:)

KWGN-DT is solid from Fort Collins too. On my Echostar 6000:

KBDI-DT (38): 91
KDVR-DT (32): 84
KWGN-DT (34): 79
KCNC-DT (35): Unaffected, still at 0! :)

No antenna reorientation is necessary for these.

Congratulations, Don & KWGN! We now at last have some HDTV in Fort Collins. Thanks also for keeping us informed of your progress.

Mark

KWGN 2-1: 88
KCNC 35-1: 70 slightly less than my normal 76.

Gilmore Girls looks great in 1080i. Just a few audio dropouts so far, which is still a lot better than channel 73 on directv with my DTC-100.

Don

Fort Collins... Greeley... Parker... aaaaahhhhhhh!

I'm 3 freakin' miles away and can't get as good a signal!

;)

Actually, I'm now getting 34 (maps to 2 on my E* 6000) at 93%, very cool! Just think, in just a few more years all of the stations will come in at that strength! ;)

Sorry you can't get KWGN Ernie, but I don't feel to bad knowing that you can watch DVDs on your 5900 via your S2. Hey! With that combo, why ARE you watching TV? :confused:

I, too, have a Samsung... 160...

Locking up on 2-1. Looping reboots. Had to disconnect antenna, and reboot to get out of the loop. Bummer.

PSIP issues?

Glad its up, can't wait to see it.:rolleyes:

Ciao

Watching Gilmore Girls, I've been noticing video/audio breakups every couple of minutes. I have an 82 signal level so I don't think it's reception. Is it at your end, KWGN?

Holy cow, 93 on KWGN-DT for me! KCNC still at its normal 70.
I am really lucky now, I get all signals strongly with my antenna
pointed in one direction, which is probably a good thing since my
antenna is in a tree in my backyard. Except of course that one
station or should I even call it a station? My brother has told me
Smallville was good, anxious to see that.

Congratulations KWGN!

I am near Dan (DP-1) and cannot get a lock on 34 with the Radio Shack yagi pointed at Republic. I switched over to a indoor Terk set top antenna and got a good lock (80's +). I guess this weekend I will play the A-B switch game!

Originally posted by ByH2O
I, too, have a Samsung... 160...

Locking up on 2-1. Looping reboots. Had to disconnect antenna, and reboot to get out of the loop. Bummer.

PSIP issues?

Glad its up, can't wait to see it.:rolleyes:

Ciao

Glad :confused: to see that I'm not the only one with the problem. Hopefully Don can get it straightened out soon.

Thanks for the tip on unplugging the antenna. Didn't even think of that one. It's been a long day.

I'd never seen Gilmore Girls before. I enjoyed it. I'll likely watch it every week from now on.

I also had frequent audio glitches and occasional video problems. Fortunately, the engineering staff at KWGN seems to take their HD signal seriously, so I'm hopeful that they'll have it resolved quickly. For their first night on the air, they were better than KCNC (remember the tinny audio?) or KUSA (HD switch? what HD switch?) on their first nights. Still waiting for KMGH's first night of HD broadcasts.

(OK, my next post had better be something good -- gotta make that 500th post special)

I'm getting a Great signal for KWGN from Highlands Ranch Blvd and Broadway.

My chimney mounted Radio Shack Yagi is pointed towards down town. I get KMGH, KCNC, KRMA, KBDI, KUSA, KWGN and KDVR without issue. I have the SAT520 and e86 receivers.

For KWGN I'm getting 92% on the SAT520, and 100% on the e86. KWGN's and KDVR's signals match from my position.

I too experienced the occasional breakup. Your upconversion of NTSC is really great. What scaler are you using?

a group called zap2it maintains the APG database for DirecTV. I've sent an email to listings@zap2it.com. KWGN might need to contact them as well.

I also saw the minor video/audio breakups every few minutes during the WB programming. I did not notice any breakups during their upconverted newscast, which looked very good. Although it's great that KWGN refrains from a bunch of self-promotion in the newscast, they really should have mentioned something about their new HD capabilities!

KWGN is stretching SD, but it looked to me like a non-linear stretch, not as bad looking as a simple stretch to 16:9.

Mark

Looks like a 16:9 stretch to me. I run my DirecTV stations stretched. I compared 2 DirecTV to 2.1, looked like it had the same boundries. The 2.1 looked dramatically different. Much more color dept, sharpness etc,..

Originally posted by Greg T


a group called zap2it maintains the APG database for DirecTV. I've sent an email to listings@zap2it.com. KWGN might need to contact them as well. That's it. Contacting DirecTv may work but I thought there was a better contact.....thanks Greg.
Mail will be sent.

Originally posted by squidboy
Glad :confused: to see that I'm not the only one with the problem. Hopefully Don can get it straightened out soon.

Thanks for the tip on unplugging the antenna. Didn't even think of that one. It's been a long day.

I have heard reports of this problem from some of our other stations (ATlanta/Miami). It may be caused by our PSIP generator. We are working through some Progrom Guide Issues & will add this to our list.

Don

Originally posted by Greg T
I too experienced the occasional breakup. Your upconversion of NTSC is really great. What scaler are you using?

The breakup may be from satellite hits during transmission - looking into this.

KWGN is using a Miranda Aquila Upconverter, which was recently upgraded for better performance.

Thanks for all the great feeddback from this group!

Don

Actualy, zap2it doesn't maintain DirecTV's APG. DirecTV does.

Zap2it provides listings to most newspapers and TiVo (but not DirecTiVo) and ReplayTV, but DirecTV's APG is their own system. I just confirmed this by checking some program descriptions at zap2it and comparing them to the program descriptions delivered by DirecTV's APG.

Originally posted by dr_mal
Actualy, zap2it doesn't maintain DirecTV's APG. DirecTV does.

Zap2it provides listings to most newspapers and TiVo (but not DirecTiVo) and ReplayTV, but DirecTV's APG is their own system. I just confirmed this by checking some program descriptions at zap2it and comparing them to the program descriptions delivered by DirecTV's APG. Okay. Do you have an email address or did you just navigate thru their site until you found an appropriate link?

Originally posted by santellavision
Anybody got a CM3021 lying around? I might try a different antenna as that might be a bit less directional the the CM3023. Also, did I read that someone bought a Channelmaster locally? I didn't think there was anybody selling them.

Iwanthd mentioned he bought a 3021 at a True Value hardware. He lives in Castle Rock. The Channelmaster website does list those stores as dealers. Probably not all of them carry em though. Who knows. A couple phone calls might be in order.

I'd kind of like to try out the next one bigger than the 3021. I think the 3021 is like 39x20 and the bigger one is 39x39. I dont suppose the stores would carry the bigger one. I need all the help I can get for 17 but I've always used the big Yagi. I'd like to give one of those big "bowties" a whirl just for comparisons sake but I dont really want to bite the bullet on shipping charges.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
I have heard reports of this problem from some of our other stations (ATlanta/Miami). It may be caused by our PSIP generator. We are working through some Progrom Guide Issues & will add this to our list.

Don

Let us know if you'd like to try running without the PSIP on sometime (like maybe tonight when Smallville is on ;)), if you need help narrowing down the problem. I'm sure that ByH2O and I aren't the only ones in denver with Samsung receivers.

Eric

Don,

As I was searching for information on PSIP, I ran across a couple of links that might be helpful.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2857539#post2857539

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2857684#post2857684

http://broadcastengineering.com/ar/broadcasting_psip_testing/

http://www.psip.org/documents/PSIP_guide.pdf

I don't know if any of these will help, but thought I would pass them on.

I also have a Samsung TS-160 that will not accept channel 34. When scanning local digital channels, the box will reach channel 34 and either freeze up or reboot itself and automatically start a guide update. I seem to remember this problem being discussed in a TS-160 forum and there was some byzantine procedure to go through to defeat this problem, but I have not had time to search for it. Hopefully Don can fix it from his end.

I found the CM 3021 at True Value in Parker in an open box on top of a Coke Machine by the mens room. (there's that Hide n Seek masters degree again). The people there did have a catalog that you can order from if you ask them. I think that they only have the newer models in their catalog, not the 3021. I'm sure you could find something that works. Their delivery time to the local store was about 1 week.

Originally posted by dr_mal
Actualy, zap2it doesn't maintain DirecTV's APG. DirecTV does.

Zap2it provides listings to most newspapers and TiVo (but not DirecTiVo) and ReplayTV, but DirecTV's APG is their own system. I just confirmed this by checking some program descriptions at zap2it and comparing them to the program descriptions delivered by DirecTV's APG.



About 2 months ago I called DirecTV, I wouldn't't let them off the phone, I talked to every manager, at every tier. All of them told me that they don't maintain this database. I then started searching AVS to see if anyone else had got over a similar hurdle with their OTA APG guides. That's when I found the posts about Zap2it. I emailed zap2it with the information about Channel 9. About a week later the programming information for 9.1 showed up on my guide.
KMGH still doesn't show up correctly on my SAT520, it maps to 17.1, and the guide data is on 7.1. I guess the SAT520 uses a stations PSIP mapping, of which KMGH is not sending out. For some reason KMGH maps correctly to 7.1 on my e86 Hughes.

Strong signal in east Longmont for KWGN with similar minor dropouts and audio sync issues stated above. Even the non-HD material looks great on my Mits 48". Thank you KWGN!!!!

Anyone else think KUSA should be brought to task about "leading the way in HDTV" now that we have a full front range HD signal from KWGN? Sounds like false advertising to me :D

Originally posted by whtevr77
[Anyone else think KUSA should be brought to task about "leading the way in HDTV" now that we have a full front range HD signal from KWGN? Sounds like false advertising to me :D It always did sound like false advertising to me and with good reason - it is. Without question, it's a bunch of self-serving crappola. They've no more lead the way then I did with Apollo moon missions. Liars Liars, pants on fire...how can anyone trust what they say....*******s!

Wow, almost 300 pages (again). Think it's time for Part IV?

I found this old post regarding scanning OTA signals with the Samsung TS 160. Our problem could be bad PSIP data or something else entirely. Maybe the procedure in no. 6 of this post will help fix the problem.
DLB
Member

Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 141
Summary of TS160 Issues - A little shorter than the 70+ page thread!
This is a summary (including the firmware download via Directv which started 12/18/02) of problems/bugs/issues discussed on this forum regarding the Samsung SIR-TS160 Directv High Definition Receiver:

Here are most of the issues that have been brought up by users, some fixes, pending fixes and current status of what Firmware 1.0.06 has done for us”...

1. Issue of “Red Push”, “Chroma", “Chroma noise”, “it drives too much red” - Samsung said at one time that there were certain units (serial numbers) that have this issue. Now they say there is no correlation between serial number and the chroma issue. You need to test yourself by testing your composite output. If you have the issue, faces will look sun burnt. If you think you have this problem and want a replacement with a hardware fix call 1-800-522-2946, which is Samsung’s Premium Exchange Warranty Program for Samsung-Directv Receivers. You can get further information about this service at the Samsung website – navigate to “Press Releases.” Under this program, they’ll advance exchange the unit immediately. They did an exchange for me within a 24-hour period – from New Jersey to Oregon – great service! If you do the express replacement as described, you might get a “refurbished” unit (with a hardware change.) You also have the option to send your unit in for repair with a 2-day turnaround or so.

2. “PSIP Lockup” from changing channels from Directv to OTA or back – if you select an OTA channel that updates their PSIP (guide and information banner) regularly it will cause the unit to lose Video and Audio when the information doesn’t match up from the last you used the channel – you can still get Guide and Menu selections to show on the screen, but that’s it. To get the picture and sound back you have to reboot the unit. This can be done in two ways – unplug the unit and plug it back in – it will retrieve the guide again and after a short period the sound and picture will come back on. The other way is to reboot from the front panel buttons (not the remote). Push the “Menu” and “Right >” buttons at the same time. This will bring a Diagnostic Menu on screen. Cursor down to the Command Line, press “OK” and one of your selection will be “Reboot”, press OK, press OK again and the new Guide will load up and picture and sound will come back. Until Samsung and Directv download a software fix for this, (expected soon -- current software version is 1.0.04) you’ll have to live with it or stay away from the OTA stations that say anything except “Regular Schedule” at the top of the information banner (this means they are not sending out PSIP).

RESOLVED - THE 1.0.06 FIRMWARE DOWNLOAD CORRECTED THIS!

3. “Invalid access card – insert correct card”, or similar message pops up from time to time and you lose picture and sound. Samsung and Directv are searching for the problem on this and a fix is expected to be in the 1st software download. Meanwhile, you might want to check with Directv that they have your access card number and unit s/n “paired up.” Call their toll free number and confirm this. Have your serial number of the unit and access card number handy. The way to work around this is to pull out the access card and reinsert – power on, power off doesn’t seem to matter. You can also call Directv and have them “clear” it for you.

RESOLVED – HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED IT SINCE THE 1.0.06 FIRMWARE DOWNLOAD.

4. Off center picture when using DVI or RGB as the output/input. My picture is shifted about 1-½ inches to the right. Samsung knows of this issue. This should be fixable by a software download, which will add a Menu item for raster adjustment (just like the RCA DTC-100 has). Samsung has confirmed that this will be added in a future software download.

RESOLVED – THEY HAVE INCLUDED A “MONITOR SETUP” MENU ITEM UNDER “INSTALLATION” WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO CENTER YOUR PICTURE – ONLY APPLIES TO DVI AND RGB.

5. RGB output to certain TV’s – Samsung has been advised – don’t know what the fix will be - hardware or software? Anybody that has this problem should contact Samsung Customer Service so they can focus on what particular TV manufacturers are affected.

6. Scanning OTA channels, setting up local networks, manual input of channels – THIS IS A REMAINING ISSUE - I won’t attempt to summarize the back and forth that’s going on regarding this subject. Here’s what I’ve done for a simple setup to just add OTA digital stations --
I didn't set up a local network to receive Guide information on local OTA channels over the satellite. I download only the D* guide info, which in my case has local stations included (that D* carries in Portland). Then I did a scan for Digital only under the Antenna & Cable menu. All the digitals I can get with my antenna in the attic were added to my Guide. I can then select the channel via the Guide or they are also available by manual input using "XX-X." If I need program info I refer to the Guide information for the D* locals, then if I want, I switch over to the OTA digital counterpart for HD viewing. Simple --- but it works especially when all your digital channels are in one vector and can be picked up by a stationary attenna.

7. Dolby Digital – Does the TS160 interpret and process this audio format properly? My setup does, but others say no. Samsung is investigating. It may be a “problem” associated with what Directv is actually sending versus what’s listed in their guide or in the channel banner. THE CHANNEL BANNER MUST SHOW “AC3” – THEN AND ONLY THEN IS IT A DOLBY DIGITAL SIGNAL. In my case, if it indicates “AC3” in the channel banner – I always get a Dolby Digital signal indicated on my AV receiver. Here's some more info on this subject http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...440#post1682440

*************************************************
There are other items that have been seen in the threads on the Samsung TS160, i.e., stretch and fill modes for 4:3 to 16:9, caller I.D. names, perception of PQ, OTA tuner sensitivity, audio delays when changing channels – Individuals who think they have valid points regarding these items should contact Samsung Customer Service and voice their opinion – If they are concerns that are wide spread I’m sure Samsung will investigate and come up with a response or action to keep us consumers satisfied.

*************************************************
Note: Getting the 1.0.06 firmware is fully automatic – if you’re hooked up properly with Directv they’ll send it down to the TS160 – you don’t have to do anything. You can check for your current version under “Setup”, “System”, “System Upgrades” – It should read 1.0.06.

Thanks to Samsung for their continuing support and responsiveness. Since the 1.0.06 firmware update I’ve been “bug free” and enjoying the SIR-TS160 greatly.


Last edited by DLB on 03-13-03 at 07:26 AM

Great news about KWGN. I get(?) to spend every weekday in New York Citiy, so I haven't been ablt to see if I can get DT34, can't wait to get home and try it. But, I do have a Samsung T150, so it's probably good Don and his team will have until Friday to see if they can resolve the issue. I have downloaded a later version of the firmware, but I don't have a cable to do an upgrade. The upgrade (to V2.0 on the 150) has helped some PSIP /reboot issues in the past, but seemed to introduce some other issues. Hmm, what to do.....

<off topic>
You know, since I get to spend 4 nights a week in a hotel, it strikes me that the CEA is missing a good chance to boost the HD transition (and also sales). If they could get manufacturers to agree to get 30" HDTVs into high-end hotels at cost, lots of people could see things like MNF in HD in their rooms, and just have to got home and buy one. Well, maybe not, but watching SD all week every week is starting to bug me.
</off topic>

Congrats Don!

Originally posted by Jetlag
Wow, almost 300 pages (again). Think it's time for Part IV? With David cleaning up old posts and sending them to the archives this Saturday it's a distinct possibility that we will start anew come Sunday (or whenever they get back online).

Just wanted to let everyone know that we will be doing some testing during the day and our signal may be non-synchronus or non-existent for periods during the day. Some things we want to hammer out on our end in an effort to provide clean HD.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
Engineering Maintenance Supervisor
KWGN/WB2

Originally posted by Greg T
About 2 months ago I called DirecTV, I wouldn't't let them off the phone, I talked to every manager, at every tier. All of them told me that they don't maintain this database. I then started searching AVS to see if anyone else had got over a similar hurdle with their OTA APG guides. That's when I found the posts about Zap2it. I emailed zap2it with the information about Channel 9. About a week later the programming information for 9.1 showed up on my guide.
KMGH still doesn't show up correctly on my SAT520, it maps to 17.1, and the guide data is on 7.1. I guess the SAT520 uses a stations PSIP mapping, of which KMGH is not sending out. For some reason KMGH maps correctly to 7.1 on my e86 Hughes.
Interesting. I'm willing to concede I could be wrong, but I find it odd that the DirecTV APG program descriptions don't always match what zap2it.com has. Looks like I have a little research problem on my hands.

E-mails to zap2it certainly couldn't hurt though.

Originally posted by Jetlag
Wow, almost 300 pages (again). Think it's time for Part IV?

The scary part of that is that here we are in Part III with 300 pages and just yesterday we finally had a real HD signal from Lookout to talk about.

I was able to get my Samsung STB to accept channel 34 by eliminating the zip codes for the local channels and then updating the guide. After the guide updated I scanned for digital channels which were all accepted and entered into their proper place in the guide. This also solved my problem of incorrect channel mapping for the local ota channels. It seems that the key to this is entering 000's for the zip code in local channel preferences.

We have tried a few things regarding the PSIP data so we would like the owners of the Samsung STB's to check and see if the are receiving an Electronic Program Guide.
As always, thanks for the input!!

Dave M.
Engineering Maintenance Supervisor
KWGN/WB2

Iwanthd,

Unfortunately, I'm using the T151, which is OTA only, and thus doesn't have a place to enter a zip code. I get the problem whether I switch to 34 manually, or do a scan for available channels.

Dave,

No love here with my Samsung SIR-T151. :( I still get the reboot loop until I unplug the antenna and switch to a different channel. I don't really care about the program guide nearly as much as I do about getting picture and sound. :p

Eric

Don, your Sammy "fix" may have caused a problem with my RCA receiver. Tuning to 2-1 has locked up my set 50% of the times I tried it this evening. I can't tune to OTA or D* channels and a power off doesn't work -- I have to unplug the set to clear it up (the receiver is built-in). I'll continue trying but it seems to be KWGN-DT that is causing the lock-up. I'll try the Sony too.

Ah the joys of software!

Originally posted by RonAuger
Don, your Sammy "fix" may have caused a problem with my RCA receiver. Tuning to 2-1 has locked up my set 50% of the times I tried it this evening. I can't tune to OTA or D* channels and a power off doesn't work -- I have to unplug the set to clear it up (the receiver is built-in). I'll continue trying but it seems to be KWGN-DT that is causing the lock-up. I'll try the Sony too.

Ah the joys of software!


Yep my RCA F38310 is having the same problem. Tune to ch 2-1 and it gives picture for about 10 seconds, then black screen and everything's locked up for about 20 seconds, then I can switch channels to another station.

fun fun fun!

Update: I turned off "acquire off-air guides" and got the same behavior Ron described. Ron, you running with PSIP turned off?

Hi Guys,
Small technical question here. I've decided to go with the 2 UHF antenna option rather than installing a rotor so that I can recieve signals from downtown and lookout. Is there any reason that I can't/shouldn't just hook both antenna connections into a cable splitter to receive the signal from both. I've seen people mention an A/B switch. Do I need one? Would running both antennas through a cable splitter cause ghosting - is this something that I need to figure out through trial and error?
Thanks for all your help.
-Nate

It's jackin up my Dish 6000 too (basically just keeps disappearing a little while after I add it), but appears to be workin alright on my Hughes clone.

On my F38310, I don't have acquire off-air guides turned on. I have had no problems with KWGN 34-3. I don't really care if I get a remap to 2-1. I actually prefer to see the channel that is actually being transmitting on. Other than remapping, I have seen no benefit to off-air guides being on.

Don, I noticed this afternoon that on your stretched SD broadcast, I am seeing the data bar at times at the top of the screen. While my TV has little or no overscan, I never see that on any other channel. It is not visible on the HD broadcasts this evening. FWIW, I prefer non-stretched regular SD programming.

Tonight , I am watching Smallville for the first time. Picture is excellent but get pixelation and audio breaks every so often. Also, it appears to me that there is a slight lip-sync problem. The good news is that is not nearly as bad as Fox which is always unbearable to me.

Good luck getting your HD transmissions smoothly working. We are sure we will watch WB now which we never did before!

Originally posted by ncopt
Hi Guys,
Small technical question here. I've decided to go with the 2 UHF antenna option rather than installing a rotor so that I can recieve signals from downtown and lookout. Is there any reason that I can't/shouldn't just hook both antenna connections into a cable splitter to receive the signal from both. I've seen people mention an A/B switch. Do I need one? Would running both antennas through a cable splitter cause ghosting - is this something that I need to figure out through trial and error?
Thanks for all your help.
-Nate Not a good idea (unfortunately). There will be signals on each antenna for each station. They may not be in phase (one may even see multipath). Adding two signals together (with a combiner) that are not lock step in phase could actually decrease signal levels. The bottom line is you can get unpredictable results.

Secondly, a switch has very low loss (1/2 dB maybe). The splitter (combiner in this case) presents a minimum 3dB loss.

So, not only can you get unpredictable results, the signal levels from both antennas will be reduced by at least 3dB (and perhaps much more if the signals are out of phase between the antennas).

Hi gang,

Just a quick note:

My Samsung 160 still locks up on the 'New 2'. Guide data shows 'Regular Schedule'.

Patiently waiting...

Ah, but the Victoria's Secret show sure looks good! :)

Anyone else think KUSA should be brought to task about "leading the way in HDTV" now that we have a full front range HD signal from KWGN? Sounds like false advertising to me

Actually, I believe that KUSA has backed down from that a little bit. In their new Kim Christiansen HDTV spot, they say something like "leading our viewers to HDTV". Now that is more like it.

don

I'm getting odd behavior trying to tune into KWGN-DT with my Dish 6000. I've got a signal strength of around 48, which is the same for KUSA-DT in the same antenna position and which comes in fine. When I tune to 002-1 or 034-1, it goes black for a few seconds and then sometimes switches to an all-grey screen, which I've never seen before. The one time I was able to get a picture without breakups, I changed the channel and then changed back and couldn't get it anymore. Very strange. Ah well, and I was so looking forward to Smallville and Angel in HD...

Hopefully this just has something to do with the maintenance they're doing on the signal, and I'll be able to eventually lock in.

--Rog

I'm receiving the signal at 100 on my Hughes E86 here in northeastern Longmont. Slight lip-sync issue is noticable, but as posted earlier in this thread, not nearly as far off as KDVR's (audio leads video, but only by about 0.1 or 0.2 sec). It is mostly apparent during fast-speaking news reporters submitting field reports. Also seemed worse during the first Raymond show than the second last evening - it was pretty close then.

Watching the news last evening, there was some kind of 'blinking' going on with intermittent black frames - perhaps related to other work going on as previously mentioned.

The horizontal stretch to 16:9 is okay by me since I just bring it back to 4:3 in 480i mode - the issues surrounding some broadcasters' (even ESPN's) choice to stretch is understandable. As long as I can alter it back to 4:3, I'm a happy camper. The video is the best I've seen. Congrats on being the true HD leader for nothern Colorado, and many thanks!

Sig strenths:
KWGN: 100
KBDI: 37
KDVR: 93

One thing you might try Rog, if you have analog 2 programmed in, is to delete that one. For whatever reason the same thing seems to be happening with at least some of the 6000's as happened when KUSA DT came on board. People couldnt get that one to act properly either until they removed analog 9 from the guide first. Worth a try anyway.

Originally posted by DP1
One thing you might try Rog, if you have analog 2 programmed in, is to delete that one. For whatever reason the same thing seems to be happening with at least some of the 6000's as happened when KUSA DT came on board. People couldnt get that one to act properly either until they removed analog 9 from the guide first. Worth a try anyway.

Thanks Dan, that worked! I never had that problem with KUSA-DT, but obviously that's not the same story with KWGN-DT. Although I'm only getting 45% signal strength this morning, so there's lots of breakups.

--Rog

Well good. Except for your signal strength of course. Anything in the 40's is super marginal, so yeah. Be nice if you could tweak your antenna or something enough to get both of those that are in the 40's up into the 50's at least.

Anyway, as I said earlier it was jacking up one of my 6000's and I couldnt figure out why. But I have 2 6000's with OTA tuners and it was working fine on one of them. Then it dawned on me that analog 2 wasnt programmed on that one, and then I remembered the issue when KUSA DT came up. Oh well...good luck!

Originally posted by DP1
Well good. Except for your signal strength of course. Anything in the 40's is super marginal, so yeah. Be nice if you could tweak your antenna or something enough to get both of those that are in the 40's up into the 50's at least.

I think if I could point my antenna a little more to the west, I could get KWGN-DT in the 50s. Part of the problem is that Green Mountain is between me and Lookout Mountain. I've got a small Yagi in my attic on a rotator, but the attic is very small and I can only get about a 90 degree play on the rotation (approx North on one end and East on the other). Pointed all the way on the N end, I can get KDVR-DT in the high 50s, but KWGN-DT only in the mid-40s. I can pick up KUSA-DT and KRMA-DT in pretty much any part of the range, but KCNC-DT only when it's pointed more E than N. I can't get KMGH-DT at all of course, although for some reason I was able to get it in the high-40s/low-50s for the first month or so of this setup, but not since.

And here I thought that moving everything to Lookout Mountain would solve all my reception problems. Looks like I'll have to rethink my setup once the supertower goes in.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice! --Rog

I haven't watched Smallville from last night yet, but Angel had some problems. Lots of the random black-frame glitches, and from time to time the audio would drift out of sync, and then I'd hear a soft pop in the audio, and the sync would be corrected. The biggest problem was losing the correct aspect ratio for a third of the show or so - it looked like either the signal dropped back to the local feed upconverted (stretched) or someone hit the wrong button. After a call the the KWGN news room, about 10 minutes later the problem was corrected.

Don, Dave, Les, (or other KWGN engineer reading this thread), why are you stretching the local material? I think the majority of us here at least would very much prefer you send the feed through unaltered and let us stretch it on our end if we want to. Personally, I can't stand the full stretch. KCNC and KUSA both put gray bars on the sides of the unaltered 4x3 picture in an attempt to combat burn in problems. That solution is preferable to stretching the 4x3 picture to fill the 16x9 screen. But, the best solution is to let us deal with it on our end. Just about all of the HD receivers on the market today allow you to stretch or partially zoom and stretch the picture. My 6000 lets me put on my own gray bars of I want to. The problem with you stretching the image is that I can't get it back - I don't have television AR control from a 1080i source, so I have no way of unstretching the image on my end.

Also, according to my Hipix card, you are sending the signal at 14.99 Mb/s at an aspect ratio of 1920x1088i. That AR seems pretty odd - all other 1080i stations are sent at exactly 1920x1080i, with the data rates either 18 Mb/s or the full 19.2 Mb/s. Comments?

I do have to say though, that even with the various glitches here in the beginning, your rollout is going much more smoothly than any of the other stations so far, and Angel sure was nice to watch in HD last night!

Has anyone west of Sheridan/Wads had any success with a smaller antenna?

I am going the switcher route, but I would prefer not to have two large ants in the attic.

At 2nd & Sheridan, I set up my double bow tie antenna last night on an A-B switch to pick up KWGN, and it worked just fine. Pulled in KWGN with it at about 80% SS.

I'm still trying to decide which antenna to get. The wife wants something that is very small and stealth like, simply something that most people won't see that easily. Any suggestions of a good one?
I'm confused as well about VHF and UHF. Do I want one that does both UHF and VHF? I've heard you can get a stronger one if it's just UHF.
As well, I'm confused about this. I am hearing about stations such as channel 2, KWGN being 34 or maybe it's 35. When we switch to digital will the tv stations all be assigned new numbers? If I'm right for now the ones that have gone digital are broadcasting both analog and digital and with time the analog will be shut off so then for example will KWGN shut off channel 2 and then just be channel 34 (or 35). I know they can't broadcast both on the same channel number.
As well, will the stations for Denver be all UHF so that I can buy a UHF only antenna or will we see VHF as well that won't work with a UHF only antenna?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm so new to OTA digital but am excited about being able to receive it soon. I have a Samsung DirecTV receiver but if I'm right it does accept OTA as well and I'm planning on upgrading to the HD DirecTIVO early next year which will as well accept OTA and I think it is supposed to work very seamlessly.

Markwco, a lot of questions!

Others can comment on the various models of antennas out there. For the VHF/UHF issue, I am pretty sure it is up to the station to decide which one they keep. Channel 13 is the last VHF and 14 is the first UHF. The major stations 2 channels/frequencies break down like this:

Call....Net...Analog ch...DTV ch
KWGN.....WB.......2........34
KCNC....CBS.......4........35
KRMA....PBS.......6........18
KMGH....ABC.......7........17 (not on-air in DTV yet ;) )
KUSA....NBC.......9........16
KBDI....PBS......12........38
KTVD....UPN......20........19 (not on-air in DTV yet)
KDVR....FOX......31........32

I don't believe the stations have determined yet which one they want to keep. Even if they have, analog shutoff is probably so far away that their decision might change by then. Also, once all the stations are full-power DTV and analog is gone, you (hopefully) will be able to pull them all in with a small indoor antenna. UHF-only or VHF/UHF will be dependent on all the stations decisions when the time comes, probably 2007 at least.

For info on the stations, try the Timeline link in my sig and click on the station
Edit: I fixed my table headers.

markwco,
I'll let others comment on stealth like antennas.

All of the Denver area stations will be broadcasting digitally in the UHF range. If you do not have any analog reception problems then you do not need a VHF antenna. As you noted KWGN is broadcasting on Channel 34. Likewise, KCNC-DT is on channel 35. The PSIP data that some broadcasters are using remaps CH34 to Ch 2-1 and CH 35 to Ch 4-1 (for example). The DirecTv receivers also remap the digital channel to the old analog channel number. Another way of saying this is: ATSC receivers tune to channel 34 but because of PSIP data (or DirecTv APG data) display channel 2-1. This is done for convenience since everyone is familiar with the analog channel assignments.

Edit: Ron beat me to it but I'll just add that (IMO) it's unlikely that most stations will keep their old analog channel once NTSC is turned off. First I believe that the low VHF band is not really ideal for digital transmissions. Secondly if they go to the expense of building their digital infrastructure it will be heavily tuned to that frequency. It would require major changes and cost to change channel assignments. I think the only viable option would be for them to keep their analog setup and convert that for digital transmissions and tear down the digital setup. Doesn't make a lot of sense to tear down a new digital setup unless they plan on doing that from the get go.

Originally posted by RonAuger


Call....Net.....DTV ch....Analog ch
KWGN.....WB.......2........34
KCNC....CBS.......4........35
KRMA....PBS.......6........18
KMGH....ABC.......7........17 (not on-air in DTV yet ;) )
KUSA....NBC.......9........16
KBDI....PBS......12........38
KTVD....UPN......20........19 (not on-air in DTV yet)
KDVR....FOX......31........32



Don't you have the analog and digital channels flipped? I don't live there and they look "wrong" to me.

mrvideo,

I fixed the headers in the table in my post (Boy! it was only like that for about 7 minutes!)Originally posted by Geof
All of the Denver area stations will be broadcasting digitally in the UHF range. That is now. Every time I've asked a station which one they will keep when it comes time to surrender one, the answer has been 'we haven't decided yet'. And I can't find FCC documentation on it right now, but I'm sure it stipulates it is the stations choice.

Originally posted by RonAuger
mrvideo,

I fixed the headers in the table in my post (Boy! it was only like that for about 7 minutes!) That is now. Every time I've asked a station which one they will keep when it comes time to surrender one, the answer has been 'we haven't decided yet'. And I can't find FCC documentation on it right now, but I'm sure it stipulates it is the stations choice. I agree it is the stations choice but my OPINION is posted above (I modified my post to reflect that).

Since Ch 6 is not going to buy a large transmitter right off the bat I wonder if they will elect to keep CH 6 after the transition....but as far as I know all the other stations will be buying a new high power transmitter for their digital station.