Ron,
You missed your chance;)

Originally posted by squidboy
rightslot,

What kind of antenna did you end up getting? Did you find a silver sensor locally? I'd like to try one out and see if I can get the big one off my roof.

Anyone else find a silver sensor locally? I don't want to go through the hassle of ordering one and then sending it back if it doesn't do the job.
Amazon has the generic (Gemini) version of the silver sensor for only $24. You might want to just order it, and then sell on ebay if it doesn't work out for you.

Originally posted by oxothuk
Amazon has the generic (Gemini) version of the silver sensor for only $24. You might want to just order it, and then sell on ebay if it doesn't work out for you.

I had mixed results with mine....I could get most of the stations available (obviously no abc), but I had to "tweak" its aim when I switched from fox to nbc or cbs. The terk I currently have outside gives all the above except abc with no tweaking. As an added bonus I got KWGN on the sony's atsc tuner. So I will probably put off my crusade to mount a roof top aerial for the time being. I am still considering trying an antenna in the attic so see if cbs and fox reception cab be improved since their signal levels are marginal. Anyone have any suggestions/what are people with antenna in their belfry using?

Originally posted by squidboy
Anyone else find a silver sensor locally? I don't want to go through the hassle of ordering one and then sending it back if it doesn't do the job.

I did see them at a SuperTarget in Littleton a while back. It does a great job on KDVR and KWGN.

Originally posted by frottage
I had mixed results with mine....I could get most of the stations available (obviously no abc), but I had to "tweak" its aim when I switched from fox to nbc or cbs. The terk I currently have outside gives all the above except abc with no tweaking. As an added bonus I got KWGN on the sony's atsc tuner. So I will probably put off my crusade to mount a roof top aerial for the time being. I am still considering trying an antenna in the attic so see if cbs and fox reception cab be improved since their signal levels are marginal. Anyone have any suggestions/what are people with antenna in their belfry using?

You might try something like the one below. Call around and see if any Rat Shacks have one. People have had pretty good luck with it I think. I believe it's about 3 foot long and 18 inches high or something. You could always return it if it didnt work out..

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160

Originally posted by DP1
You might try something like the one below. Call around and see if any Rat Shacks have one. People have had pretty good luck with it I think. I believe it's about 3 foot long and 18 inches high or something. You could always return it if it didnt work out..

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160


I have this antennae. I used it for about a year in my attic with much success. I decided to move it outside to get KMGH better. I had multi path problems with Fox when it was in the attic. I didn't watch Fox much so it didn't matter much at the time.

Originally posted by squidboy
rightslot,

What kind of antenna did you end up getting? Did you find a silver sensor locally? I'd like to try one out and see if I can get the big one off my roof.

Anyone else find a silver sensor locally? I don't want to go through the hassle of ordering one and then sending it back if it doesn't do the job.

I ended up buying a RCA from Best Buy. I think it was $24.00. It has two dipoles, and two rotary dials. It's amplified. ( so?? )

Well, I don't know if it's better than my little wire or not except that I NOW GET CHANNEL 2 !!! {sorry, but that was a big deal for me}

So, I need to work the direction some more accordinng to this forum.

Thoughts?

I noticed that BB carries the Silver Sensor (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051806287898&skuId=5262814&type=product).

So, being a little irritated about HOAs and antennas, did anybody notice that Leno the last two nights had sound only coming out of the right front speaker? One would hope that by now the stations would actually monitor their signal and sound. Especially our self proclaimed HDTV leader! NOT.

I got my second HD receiver installed the other day (a Dish 811). I was a bit leary about splitting the UHF signal from my OTA antenna, but even with the splitter, I get all of the local digital stations on both receivers with no problems. There is something to be said for having a big rooftop antenna on a rotator (not to mention location, location, location).

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
So, being a little irritated about HOAs and antennas, did anybody notice that Leno the last two nights had sound only coming out of the right front speaker? One would hope that by now the stations would actually monitor their signal and sound. Especially our self proclaimed HDTV leader! NOT.
I noticed it as well. I also noted the same thing while surfing through a few other KUSA HD programs. The sound seems to work fine during SD programming and of course most commercials, so I expect it is something wrong with the HD processing. Of course, since KUSA is 'The Leader In HD', I am certain it will be corrected shortly. Obviously they must monitor their HD channel full time as the area 'leader'.
:mad:
They are so full of Cr@p!

I have a Channel Master UHF 8 bowtie on the roof. I get all the OTA hd on my E-86 except ABC!! If I go with the Pre-amp from Channel Master Does anyone think I will get ABC?? Will the preamp just amplify the noise to a point I won't get anything since I run the antenna and satellite into a diplexer and then into my TV? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

What's your signal strength reading on 17 now? Usually you need a solid 37 or better to decode channel's sufficiently on that model. How close to that number are you? And how much fiddling with orientation trying to specifically key on 17 have you done to this point?

And what major intersection are you near? I'm not sure how sprawling Centennial is. I know people in some areas of what I believe to be Centennial get it. Like County Line and Quebec area..

EDIT: Well I just peeked at a couple of your previous posts and you mentioned living down by Chenango and Himalaya. If thats the case, I'm sorry to say you have like zero shot no matter what. I think it's just too far east. Though I'd love for somebody to step forward and correct me if I'm wrong.

Bowl Games !!!

Does ANYONE know which bowl games will be in HD? Yea, I'm that hooked. I'll watch Hootervill University vs. Country Time Lemonaid if it's in HD.

I'll watch and wait for help.

Thanks

Originally posted by rightslot
Bowl Games !!!

Does ANYONE know which bowl games will be in HD? Yea, I'm that hooked. I'll watch Hootervill University vs. Country Time Lemonaid if it's in HD.

I'll watch and wait for help.

Thanks
Check this thread for news. So far only Peach Bowl (on ESPN) has been announced.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300607

Originally posted by oxothuk
Check this thread for news. So far only Peach Bowl (on ESPN) has been announced.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300607

Just got to wondering, has anyone seen any construction started on the KRMA transmitter and tower on Morrison?? I wonder how they are getting along and haven't seen or heard any news as to when they hope to be on the air.

I was just over at my dad's and on his dish 6000, KMGH's DT17 audio is way lower than all the other OTA channels. What about you guys?

The DD5.1 feed on KMGH is definitely lower than the other channels...and of course much lower for some people (ahem...john, geof, david, ron, etc...)

Yep , it's been that way since I started receiving KMGH. It's so much lower in fact that I have to remember to turn the volume back down before changing the channel else it scares my dogs! KMGH - cruel to animals!

Originally posted by markdl
The DD5.1 feed on KMGH is definitely lower than the other channels...and of course much lower for some people (ahem...john, geof, david, ron, etc...) Right you are - I haven't been able to hear it yet, no matter what volume level I set on my preamp. :rolleyes:

Ernie and Tim especially, but also all of the other local Dish subs here,

I've been dying to tell you this since last Friday, and now I can... :D

I've had a 921 since Friday afternoon, and have just posted my review if it at DBSTalk: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73

What is this channel 17 you speak of? Seriously, great review Mark. It's making me even more impatient for a HD DirecTiVo :D

Very cool. Like dr_mal, can't wait for the HD DirecTiVo.

Mark, just finished the introductory review and heard about it from Scott while eavesdropping on the retailer Charlie Chat. Looks like this is finally the week when a few lucky souls will get their hands on the 921. Did they allow you to go over to E* and pick it up? Lucky dog!

Like dr_mal, can't wait for the HD DirecTiVo.

It should be announced at CES in a few weeks. Or was that last year's announcement? Can you say vaporware?

I believe there is also a company in Westminster developing a high def DVR... we'll have to see about that one as to whether it is competitive with the satellite capable offerings.

http://interact-tv.com/products.php


Don

Great review Mark!

Let me know if they have any they want to give away for testing. :)

I would be glad to walk over and get one!!!

Yeah, I went over and picked up on Friday afternoon. Took it home, hooked it up and have been putting it through the paces almost non-stop since.

So is the next official AVS gathering going to be in my basement to check out the new toy? :D

Let us know when!! :)

Originally posted by donyoop
It should be announced at CES in a few weeks. Or was that last year's announcement? Can you say vaporware?
I don't know, Don, they did a demo of it at TiVo for the Bay Area HD User's Group. From the reviews there, it sounds like it's working.
Originally posted by donyoop
I believe there is also a company in Westminster developing a high def DVR... we'll have to see about that one as to whether it is competitive with the satellite capable offerings.

http://interact-tv.com/products.php


Don
Yeah, that's not HD yet. And even if it ever is capable of HD, it still won't be able to decode any satellite signals. You'd probably be better off picking up a HD Tuner Card and throwing it in a PC.

Gurus at Denver, help with HD local channel reception,

I currently have a direct tv samsung ts160 setup. My HOA does not allow installing OTA antenna outdoors. Installing in attic is an option but the cost of antenna and installation is running to about $350 (quote from alpine electronics). Plus they don't guarantee HD reception. I could install the antenna myself but running cables from attic to TV seems like a nightmare.
I am considering comcast local HD channels as an option.

I am located in zip code 80015 intersection of E-470 and smoky hill.

Please suggest:

1. Whether I should go ahead with OTA antenna installation or Cable option.
2. Will my current HDTV set-top-box (Samsung TS160) work with comcast cable?

Thanks in advance,

How many times does it bear repeating ? Your HOA CANNOT restrict you from putting up an OTA antenna of ANY SIZE as long as it is for reception of LOCAL BROADCAST TELEVISION. They cannot restrict you in respect to how MANY antennas (and dishes, if it comes to that) you can have, either. Read the link in my sig for more information.

The above statement was made assuming you have a house and not a condo - if you have a condo - they still can't restrict you so long as your antenna is entirely upon your exclusive use space (i.e your patio / balcony)

That said - does cable offer all the local HDTV channelss available in your area ?

Your Samsung TS160 probably can't receive the digital cable channels from Comcast.

kumarv,

The FCC rules allow you to put up an outdoor antenna on your own controlled property. No HOA can stop you. It's the law! We just went through this a couple of pages ago. Read back a bit.

1) Comcast does not carry CBS or ABC, so no superbowl in HD over them.
2) Not sure about the TS160

kumarv,
I know this thread is really long but I do suggest you go back the last 10 pages or so and start reading from there. A lot of your questions will undoubtedly be answered. Feel free to ask more specific questions once you're up to speed.

Being on Smokey Hill, if you have a reasonably good line of sight to downtown from your roof, you have a good chance at getting all the DTV stations now broadcasting -- even ("gulp!") KMGH-DT. I heard they had a DTV signal. ;)

Get a UHF antenna (RatShack will let you try it and return it), temporarily stick it on your roof and throw a cable down the side of the house and into your window to you receiver. You will not know what OTA signal level you'll get until you try.

Yeah, this is my back yard. Funny, no one in my HOA has ever complained...

http://home.earthlink.net/~ht_nut/images/0903dish.jpg

Of course I'm usually sitting in that grey chair holding a shotgun, but still, no one has ever complained!

Actually, I gotta be honest here, that's not really MY back yard,


it's JMartinko's!

Originally posted by Jetlag
Actually, I gotta be honest here, that's not really MY back yard,

it's JMartinko's!

Jetlag, thanks for using that older picture, the one without the two rusted cars up on cinder blocks and the old refigerator with the door hanging off. I promised the neighbors I would get that stuff moved before the end of next year though. Also, now that I see the picture again that reminds me, what did you do with the three empty kegs that were in the front just before you took the shot?? Did you stash them in the bushes somewhere? I think they are due back at LiquorMart!
:D

Besides, everyone knows antennas are 'sexy', and any woman can tell you that you can judge a man by the size of his antenna! Chicks dig big antennas!

Actually, just for clarification, my yard is 'bad', but not THAT bad! I was up all night so I could catch the midnight showing of LOTR:ROTK, but even now I am not THAT tired. I know that isn't my yard simply because everyone here in Boulder has a couch on their front porch.
:cool:

Originally posted by JMartinko
I promised the neighbors I would get that stuff moved before the end of next year though.
Yep, just as soon as LCG-II starts broadcasting from Lookout.

Originally posted by oxothuk
Yep, just as soon as LCG-II starts broadcasting from Lookout. I doubt that'll happen by the end of next year though....:rolleyes:

KWGN,

Any updates for us Samsung owners?

Originally posted by squidboy
KWGN,

Any updates for us Samsung owners?

It was still resetting as of 2 days ago, but the atsc tuner in the Sony likes what KWGN is feeding it. In fact I prefer the atsc tuner feed as the black levels levels appear to be better (compared to HD feeds from CBS and NBC, well I guess ABC's black levels are the best since it's black all the time). Actually, it appears the blacks levels coming out of the Sammy component outputs are better than that coming out of the DVI IMHO, but that's a topic for another place and time.

I would still love to get 2-1 working as I affectionately now call 2-1 the "Windows" channel since it reboots everytime :)

Doug

Speaking of KWGN - finally caught Smallville tonight. LOTS of macroblocking during any of the action scenes. Are they still using less than 19.2 mbps for their digital channel?

Originally posted by kumarv
I am located in zip code 80015 intersection of E-470 and smoky hill.

Please suggest:

1. Whether I should go ahead with OTA antenna installation or Cable option.
2. Will my current HDTV set-top-box (Samsung TS160) work with comcast cable?

Thanks in advance,

Kumarv,

I live in the same zip code at Chenango and Himalaya, and I have been using just some cheap amplified UHF antennas mounted in my living room (faces West) and I can get everything but KMGH. I would try just setting up a cheap UHF antenna from Radio Shack or Best Buy and if that doesn't work for you move on from there.

I use Dish Network for most of my HD, but I also got the Motorola receiver from Comcast to get their channels as well. I still use my Dish Network setup more then the Comcast, but it is a nice backup especially for the locals that they have.

Don't know of that Samsung receiver will work with Comcast, but I didn't have any luck getting Comcast HD to work with the HD card that I have in my PC (MyHD card).

Hope this all helps! Good luck!

Steve

Hi steve,

Thanks for the detailed information. When you say you get everything but KMGH, do you get local channels in High Definition? Could you tell me the make and model of the antenna?

Thanks again,

Originally posted by dr_mal
Speaking of KWGN - finally caught Smallville tonight. LOTS of macroblocking during any of the action scenes. Are they still using less than 19.2 mbps for their digital channel? I did not see every minute of this program but I did not notice any macroblocking on the action scenes I watched.

Just received a note that KTFD (Univision) DT15 might be up and running.

Anybody getting a whiff of that signal?

Originally posted by kumarv
Hi steve,

Thanks for the detailed information. When you say you get everything but KMGH, do you get local channels in High Definition? Could you tell me the make and model of the antenna?

Thanks again,

Yes, I can receive all of the local HD channels that are currently broadcasting, except KMGH.

The primary antenna that I use is probably 5+ years old. It's a Phillips Magnavox MANT300, not sure if it is even available any longer. I would think that any cheap amplified UHF antenna will work though.

Good Luck!

Steve

Originally posted by santellavision
Just received a note that KTFD (Univision) DT15 might be up and running.

Anybody getting a whiff of that signal?
I can get KTFD when I want to, but usually I have my antenna aimed in a different direction. They were already broadcasting a month ago when I got my receiver. FWIW KTFD is the Telefutura network, not Univision.

I see from antennaweb that the Univision station (KCEC-DT 51) is listed as "Testing". Has anyone picked that up? I always enjoy surfing through Sabado Gigante.

Originally posted by santellavision
Just received a note that KTFD (Univision) DT15 might be up and running.

Anybody getting a whiff of that signal?

Also able to be received here in NE longmont (barely). I need to reposition my antenna to get them also. Poor PQ, not as good a picture as on D*, and no HD when I first noticed them several months ago. I haven't checked lately.

Hello All,

We have yet to hear from Samsung regarding their HD receivers so we just took some initiative with our PSIP data and re-mapped some things. Everyone please check your receivers and let us know their current state and model type.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2

Sorry, Dave...

My Sammy 160 is still unhappy - reboots endlessly.

But - the EPG looks good! :)

Thanks for trying! I am a bit surprised that Samsung has not been of any help.

Still no sound with my Panasonic TU-DST51.

Michael

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Hello All,

We have yet to hear from Samsung regarding their HD receivers so we just took some initiative with our PSIP data and re-mapped some things. Everyone please check your receivers and let us know their current state and model type.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
Still rebooting on my SIR-T151.

Dave, I can now report that the Dish Network DVR-921 has no problems with the KWGN signal. It's mapped to channel 2-1.

Show off! ;)

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Hello All,

We have yet to hear from Samsung regarding their HD receivers so we just took some initiative with our PSIP data and re-mapped some things. Everyone please check your receivers and let us know their current state and model type.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2

Dave,

Looks good on my RCA F38310...Maps to 2-1, no program guide info though.

Dom

Originally posted by oxothuk
Still rebooting on my SIR-T151.

Same here.

With the broncos win tonite, they have made the playoffs. So the rest of the games this year I am thinking will be in High Definition. I am hoping that are not put on ABC so I can watch the games in HD, since most here can not get ABC signal. And CBS I would think would put their playoff games in HD.

ESPN HD picture looked really good tonite, what did you guys think? The game was even more enjoyable since they were ahead most of the game. So this makes the broncos record this year 3-1 when they are in HD.

ESPN-HD PQ for the Broncos game was awesome. I received it via E* DISH811 receiver installed last Friday.

ESPN-HD PQ for the Broncos game was awesome. I received it via E* DISH811 receiver installed last Friday.

ESPN-HD really was great last night. And I bet most of you all watched it converted from 720p to 1080i. But talk about spectacular... You should have seen it in native 720p. It was freakin' breathtaking!

Even Sharon, said it was like being on the bench. Gotta' love that 'Sky-cam'!

I set up my new xbr34910 and Sony SatHD 300 sat receiver on Saturday. Haven't run the coax to the dish yet, but just for grins, I attached the RS double bow tie ant, expecting to get 32-1 and maybe 2-1. I merely sat it on top of the cabinet. To my surprise I was soon locked on to 9-1, 6-1, 35-1, three or four of the subcarriers of channel 12, and 2-1.

All remapped appropriately except channels 12 and 4. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that this latest Sony astc tuner is a bit more sensitive than my DTC 100.

I was going to set up an ant in the attic, but since digi-Santa is delivering through the bow tie, I am a happy camper!

Originally posted by CEB II
ESPN-HD PQ for the Broncos game was awesome. I received it via E* DISH811 receiver installed last Friday.

ESPN-HD looked great over Comcast HD as well. PQ was on a par with OTA CBS.

cheers!

Dom,

Just curious, does Comcast send ESPN-HD in native 720p?

After much tinkering, I believe the problem with our PSIP data has been resolved. No thanks to Samsung!! If everyone could respond back to me regarding their receivers, I would greatly appreciate it. In addition, you may notice the addition of a 2-2. This virtual channel will be considered our SAP Spanish broadcast when Spanish is available as secondary audio.

Thanks for your patience!! :D

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
HD 2-1,2-2

Hey Dave, Nice Work!!!

The Samsung 160 likes the new data. EPG looks fine.

Thank you very much!!!

Not to spoil the moment, but no EPG on 2-2 though.

Eureka! Samsung 160 receiving 2-1 and 2-2 without the dreaded re-boot. Thank you Dave M and KWGN for the early Christmas present. I appreciate your perserverance and willingness to keep us informed. Perhaps another station should take note of how to do things right.
Thanks again for your hard work!

Originally posted by santellavision
Dom,

Just curious, does Comcast send ESPN-HD in native 720p?

I wish I knew. My RCA F38310 doesn't give my any indication of what the source resolution is. I'll check the cable box (which is connected to my component inputs) to see if there's any info there.

cheers

Update 12/24: After a bit of poking around, it looks like the cable box has the option of sending 720p or 1080i out the component feed. It's currently set to 1080i, so however it was shot/processed/broadcast, it came out as 1080i for me.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
After much tinkering, I believe the problem with our PSIP data has been resolved. No thanks to Samsung!! If everyone could respond back to me regarding their receivers, I would greatly appreciate it. In addition, you may notice the addition of a 2-2. This virtual channel will be considered our SAP Spanish broadcast when Spanish is available as secondary audio.

Thanks for your patience!! :D

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
HD 2-1,2-2


My RCA F38310 likes it. Got good program info on 2-1.

thanks!

It's great to hear the Samsung tuners are working with KWGN. I can't check my Panasonic tuner at the moment. We're both in St. Louis demonstrating the virtues of HDTV to my extended family. I look forward to giving the new signal a try when I get back next week.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
After much tinkering, I believe the problem with our PSIP data has been resolved. No thanks to Samsung!! If everyone could respond back to me regarding their receivers, I would greatly appreciate it. In addition, you may notice the addition of a 2-2. This virtual channel will be considered our SAP Spanish broadcast when Spanish is available as secondary audio.

Thanks for your patience!! :D

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
HD 2-1,2-2

Woohoo! I haven't had a chance to check myself yet, but I just called my wife and she can confirm that our T151 gets 2-1 and 2-2 with program info.

Great work, and thanks for putting up with our nagging. :cool:

Eric

To All,
I will likely be reading the thread only off and on for the next few weeks, so I just wanted to wish all of you the best for the holidays! It's certainly been an active year, and at times even 'fun'.

Hope you all are able to enjoy your families as well as your HD Theaters this week and may 2004 finally see KMGH get 'on the air' beyond their parking lot, and KUSA do something to actually back up their claim to be "Leading the way in HD". As for KCNC and KRMA, more recently KWGN, and Faux HR too, thanks for your efforts this year. And also a big thanks to the folks at HDNet for the tours and also the Jeffco County Commissioners who finally made a decision for the good of the front range.

Happy Holidays to All!

:)

Same to you John! :D

KMGH? Yea, that would be something! I actually have NEVER seen Channel 7 in hi-def anywhere. So that would be a treat.

But I'm hoping for much more programing, and a lot less reruns of movies and other material that actually IS NOT HD.

Otherwise. Don't eat too much. !!!

For those playing the home game edition, EPG is now available on 2-2 as well as 2-1.

Thanks!!

Happy Holidays to All!!

Dave M.
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HD :D

Wishing everyone a great HoliDay season.

Same to you Tommy K !!

Just tuned in to KWGN ... D34-1 has no audio, D34-2 does.

I thought everyone would like a holiday surprise so here goes; On January 1st from 9:00am- 11:30am we will broadcast live the Tournament of Roses Parade from Pasadena, CA. This will be a full HD telecast in all its 1080i glory, so enjoy!!
Also, we invite everyone to warm up by the fire/HD television with our presentation of "Yule Log" from 6:00am-9:00am with holiday music provided by KOSI radio.

Happy HD Holidays from WB2

Dave M
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HD:)

That sounds great. Unfortunately, I can't get OTA signals. Perhaps this is the wrong forum for this question, but do you have any word on when KWGN will be available on Comcast?

YUN,
Please don't tell us it's the "My HOA won't let me put up an antenna".

What's the problem getting OTA? Can we help?

Well from my understanding you need to have at least SOME southern LOS. I don't. I live in Boulder, right up against Flagstaff Mountain. My southern view IS the mountain. From my understanding the signal is still very weak and the lack of southern LOS makes OTA impossible for me at this point even if I WERE willing to install a rooftop antenna.

Most of the OTA HD stations (KRMA, KCNC, KUSA, and I hear there's another one but nobody can get it) are downtown. Is Flagstaff in between your place and downtown?

Pretty much.

LOS is not an absolute. I do not have LOS with any of the stations, and I can get most from downtown up here in Genesee. Why not just get a RatShack antenna and give it a try. You can always return it.

I might just do that. Thanks. Would the Mot STB from Comcast work with the OTA antenna, something like a Silver Sensor?

Well no, you cant use the cable box to get OTA signals.. you'd need a standalone digital tuner. Or some HDTV's themselves have them built in, of course.

It IS an HD cable box. They don't allow for an outside antenna input? Don't the D* STBs allow for that?

Not the cable ones. Because they provide the local HD channels.. in theory anyway. Whereas the DBS co's have alot of wood to chop before they'd ever be able to offer them through their own means. I reckon thats pretty much the diff.

is cbs offered OTA in Denver?

I'm just north of you, in the foothills west of Berthoud. North of Rabbit Mountain a few miles, Carter Lake area, have no LOS to the south, but a clear shot to the southest towards Longmont. I can get 2 (D34), 4 (D35), PBS (D18), 9 (D16), 31 (D32), and D46 whichever station that is. I was getting a Spanish station on D15 for awhile. Can't get D38 or D25 or D17 or any of the Cheyenne stations. That's using Radio Shack's biggest antennae, I think it's VU-210 or something like that, pointed south-southeast. So I'd say give it a try, you might be surprised.

Originally posted by u-ray
is cbs offered OTA in Denver?
Yes! They were the first major network to have an HD signal available to the area. They're on digital channel 35-1 (may be mapped to 4-1, depending on your receiver).

Originally posted by u-ray
is cbs offered OTA in Denver?

Yup. Along with ABC, NBC, PBS, Fox and WB. Course each ones receiveability from any particular location in the Metro area varies greatly due to any number of reasons.

:confused: ABC? When did they go on the air? :confused:

Merry Christmas KMGH :p

Damn! If only I had my 921 to record the Yule Log! ;) Of course all of that heat might damage the circuitry! :D

Thanks Dave and Happy Holidays Everyone!

thanks for the reply I look forward to setting this up.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
After much tinkering, I believe the problem with our PSIP data has been resolved. No thanks to Samsung!! . . .

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
HD 2-1,2-2

I can't check my T151 until I get back on 12/31. I'm hopeful after reading Squidboy's post. Dave, thanks for not giving up.

"ESPN-HD really was great last night. And I bet most of you all watched it converted from 720p to 1080i. But talk about spectacular... You should have seen it in native 720p. It was freakin' breathtaking!"

My Samsung HLN507W is native 720p and my 811 is set for 720p, so I saw the ESPN-HD Broncos-Colts game in its breath-taking beauty. BTW, the picture was superior to CBS OTA HD broadcasts. While both HD formats are great, I think 720p is more enjoyable to watch live broadcasts on.

Ok you antenna guys!

Sounds good, and as you can see I live in a part of Aurora that doesn't do too well with the INDOOR.

So I'll go outside.

But can anyone give me name & number of someone who can come over and do a reasonable $$$ install of a roof antenna?

ABC (kmgh) ---- i miss lots.

Antenna install info:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2925474#post2925474

(sorry, Ron :D)

WTB: OTA HDTV receiver

Sorry if this in the wrong place to post this, but I didn't see a better thread.

I'm looking to pick up an HDTV tuner to go with my new (well, used) HDTV ready tv. Do any of you fellow Denverites have a used one (now that you got a new one for x-mas, right? ;) ) that you'd like to sell to me? Or, any other places I should look online (or locally) for one? (other than ebay)

And now, a legitimate question: If I decide to sign up for HD from Comcast, do I have to get digital cable or can I just add it to my basic cable? Oh, and does Comcast carry WB2? (can't wait to see "Smallville" in HD!)

Thanks alot!

(let me know if there is a better place to post Denver specific HDTV questions. Judging by the size of this thread (330 pages!) we need a separate forum for Denver alone.)

Originally posted by Sportfantic
With the broncos win tonite, they have made the playoffs. So the rest of the games this year I am thinking will be in High Definition. I am hoping that are not put on ABC so I can watch the games in HD, since most here can not get ABC signal. And CBS I would think would put their playoff games in HD.

ESPN HD picture looked really good tonite, what did you guys think? The game was even more enjoyable since they were ahead most of the game. So this makes the broncos record this year 3-1 when they are in HD.

Denver will be a wild-card entry into the playoffs - so they will play on ABC for the first weekend of the playoffs (which will be in HD WHERE AVAILABLE :rolleyes: ). If they advance to the second round or beyond, the games will be on CBS - also in HD.

Originally posted by velo
WTB: OTA HDTV receiver

Sorry if this in the wrong place to post this, but I didn't see a better thread.

I'm looking to pick up an HDTV tuner to go with my new (well, used) HDTV ready tv. Do any of you fellow Denverites have a used one (now that you got a new one for x-mas, right? ;) ) that you'd like to sell to me? Or, any other places I should look online (or locally) for one? (other than ebay)

And now, a legitimate question: If I decide to sign up for HD from Comcast, do I have to get digital cable or can I just add it to my basic cable? Oh, and does Comcast carry WB2? (can't wait to see "Smallville" in HD!)


I know you said other than ebay, but that's where I picked up my Samsung T151, for about $150, and it works great. I don't know of other places to get used STBs.

Check out this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293562) for info on Comcast HDTV in Denver. It's a LITTLE shorter :)

Originally posted by velo

Sorry if this in the wrong place to post this, but I didn't see a better thread.
******
And now, a legitimate question: If I decide to sign up for HD from Comcast, do I have to get digital cable or can I just add it to my basic cable? Oh, and does Comcast carry WB2? (can't wait to see "Smallville" in HD!)



You have to rent the box but can then add HD to your analog "basic" cable. See explanation at the better thread for this, post# 331:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3111625#post3111625

Denver will be a wild-card entry into the playoffs - so they will play on ABC for the first weekend of the playoffs (which will be in HD WHERE AVAILABLE ). If they advance to the second round or beyond, the games will be on CBS - also in HD.

Denver will be on that exceedingly powerful channel 17 only if Denver plays on Saturday, Jan 3. If Denver's wild card game is on Sunday Jan. 4, CBS carries it and Sunday's AFC wild card game will be in HD as announced by CBS at cbssportsline.com. The other Sunday wild card game is on Fox, probably in fauxscreen.

ABC covers only the 2 Saturday wild card games.

The early buzz is that Denver will be scheduled for Sunday based on the current #6 seed position.

Don

surprised to see the Bronco game in HD for this week. While I know this game means something to GB, it looks like a pre-season game for Denver. I will take it though.

Jeff

Originally posted by donyoop
Denver will be on that exceedingly powerful channel 17 only if Denver plays on Saturday, Jan 3. If Denver's wild card game is on Sunday Jan. 4, CBS carries it and Sunday's AFC wild card game will be in HD as announced by CBS at cbssportsline.com. The other Sunday wild card game is on Fox, probably in fauxscreen.

ABC covers only the 2 Saturday wild card games.

The early buzz is that Denver will be scheduled for Sunday based on the current #6 seed position.

Don Denver @ Indianapolis on Sunday Jan. 4th at 2PM MST in HD on KCNC-DT. Let's hope it goes just as it did last week!

That would be fun!
Jeff

Why the OTA channels appear in pillar box mode?

Hi,

I am able to receive WB, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS OTA HD channels. Most of the programming appear in pillar box mode (side bars). If I change the aspect ratio of my display to 4:3 zoom, the picture fills the screen but appears distorted.

Is there a way to get true 16:9 aspect ratio?

Thanks in advance

Why the OTA channels appear in pillar box mode?

Hi,

I am able to receive WB, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS OTA HD channels. Most of the programming appear in pillar box mode (side bars). If I change the aspect ratio of my display to 4:3 zoom, the picture fills the screen but appears distorted.

Is there a way to get true 16:9 aspect ratio?

Thanks in advance

You'll get true 16:9 when the program being broadcast was produced in 16:9 (except WB and Fox who choose to stretch everything).

Check KCNC-DT tonight at 9:00 for CSI: Miami. That should be some good 16x9 1080i eye candy.

CBS's primetime programming is typically HD (except news and reality shows), and one of their soaps (Young & Restless?) is HD as well.

NBC's primetime programming is getting more and more HD, but some shows (like Friends and Scrubs) are still 4:3 SD. Jay Leno is also in HD.

WB has quite a lot of HD primetime programming.

Fox has some shows in 16:9 SD (24's the only one I watch at the moment)

Originally posted by kumarv
I am able to receive WB, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS OTA HD channels. Most of the programming appear in pillar box mode (side bars). If I change the aspect ratio of my display to 4:3 zoom, the picture fills the screen but appears distorted.

Is there a way to get true 16:9 aspect ratio?

Short answer: NO

Long answer: The reason for the pillar bars is because the original source is only 4:3. In order to keep the correct aspect ratio, pillar bars are added on the left and tight of the image. True 16:9 programming is pretty much only available during network primetime hours, or during some football games.

In other words, if you want the correct aspect ratio on a 16:9 display, you will have to live with the pillar bars. That is no different that watching a letterboxed movie on a 4:3 or 16:9 display, where you get the letterbox bars on the top and bottom of the image.

Dave M. (KWGN-TV/WB2),

I'm finally back in town and happy to report that I'm getting sound (and pictures) from KWGN-DT on my Panasonic Tuner (TU-DST51). There is one small problem, I get 34-2 and 34-3 (with PSIP turned off) but both give me the Spanish language soundtrack. With PSIP on, it says 2-1 and 2-2 (and even says KWGN-DT) but still only Spanish.

Any chance there is a way to switch the sound tracks without screwing everyone else?

Does anyone know what the actual resolution/format of HD content as it comes to an E* reciever. Specifically, I have a E* 6000U reciever, which allows the user to select either a 720P or 1080i output, supposedly to "allow you to match the native resolution of your display". My problem is, I'm not as worried about match my Sharp 9000 projector's internal scaler as much as I am that of the sat receiver. I would rather trust the scaler in a $10k projector than the one in a $500 receiver. Another way I'm thinking of it is, suppose that the actual signal off the satellite is sent in 1080i -- why would I have the reciever convert the signal to 720p to match my projector, instead of sending the signal as-is in 1080i to the projector and letting it handle to scaling? My goal is to reduce the total number of conversions of the signal, and do whatever scaling must be done in the better (presumably) quality equipment. ANy help would be greatly appreciated.

THanks.

Welcome RLE!

OK, here's the deal. I have a Marantz DLP, so this should apply to you.

Dish sends HBO, CBS, SHO, DISC, PPV, HDNET, HDNETMovie all at 1080i, So set your Dish 6000 to output 1080i. Even thought your DLP is 720p Native, the scaler in your DLP is way better at conversion than the bad scaler in the 6000.

ESPN-HD is send by Dish as 720p. So, to get the 'best' PQ, you have to go into the menu of the 6000 and set it to output 720p. Trust me, its worth the 15 sec to do it. ESPN's native 720p into your 720p DLP is absolutely incredible!

(Unfortunately, even the new Dish 921 DVR won't auto-switch the output to the inputs native resolution. Kinda Sucks.) *Note: Yo' Mark, let 'em know this would be really nice, would 'ya!!

Now, to get the best PQ on Standard-definition (SD)Pgms, Set the 6000 to SD, not HD. Because watching SD programs with the 6000 set to HD, looks so-so. But, SD fed into your Sharp then upconverted by its internal scaler, will look better than having the 6000's bad scaler, upconvert it. Make Sense?

And the same thing would apply to ABC's HD signal as it does to ESPN HD's signal.. both received by the 6000 as 720p. But then again since he lives at 100th and Wads it's a moot point because he cant get 17 anywayz.

I agree Ernie. Also, I do this for the local OTA stations as well. Some broadcast 720p others in 1080i. I don't do it while 'surfing' but after I choose a program to watch.

Ernie, Dan, Jetlag - Perfect answers, just what I was looking for. Interesting that Dish carries forward whatever the network supplies for signal, but does not provide automatic switching at the receiver end. Also a good point on the SD broadcasts -- something I have noticed profound differences in in the past. Particularly on hockey and some other sports events, the end picture is MUCH better feeding an SD signal via S-Video to my projector from the 6000, and letting my projector up-convert it to it's native resolution. If I try to watch SD content scaled-up to either 720p or 1080i by the receiver, it not only looks much more pixelated, but it seems the scaler can not keep up nearly as well with more rapid motion/frame sequencing.

I'll switch to 1080i for those you mentioned above. BTW, off-hand do y'all know the resolutions of KUSA, KCNC, and FOX OTA? (Sorry if this is common knowledge, and probably posted very early in this or it's parent threads.)

One last question, largly unrelated: Are the Avalanche games on HDNet in Jan and Feb to be blacked-out since FSN will be carrying the same games?

Thanks a million!
-Ray.

KUSA, KCNC: 1080i
KDVR (Fox): 480p (they'll go to 720p when Fox corporate switches to HD, currently expected Fall 2004)

The Avs games on HDNet will be blacked out (boo, hiss :( :mad: ), but the Avs games on ESPN-HD in Jan (and I think Feb and Mar as well) against Detroit should NOT be blacked out locally since ESPN has national rights for those games.

From Dave M's (WB 2) post a few pages back:

I thought everyone would like a holiday surprise so here goes; On January 1st from 9:00am- 11:30am we will broadcast live the Tournament of Roses Parade from Pasadena, CA. This will be a full HD telecast in all its 1080i glory, so enjoy!!

I haven't watched this parade in many, many years, but I would think it would be a real showpiece in HD.

I know KWGN was going slow in the HD promotion department until they got the bugs worked out. Except for one older Panasonic box it sounds like everything is now working OK. Personally, I don't think they need to wait any longer to do some promotion--and this event would be great for that.

Mark

How to Increase signal strength?

CBS signal strength currently is just 20%. I am getting digital noise. Is there a way to increase the strength of signal other than turning the antenna?

Thanks.

You could try an antenna amplifier (Radio Shack has 'em) But, then you might get the overload problem. Some other closer channels might overpower the amp and you could lose reception on other channels. It's always worth a try.

Originally posted by kumarv
How to Increase signal strength?

CBS signal strength currently is just 20%. I am getting digital noise. Is there a way to increase the strength of signal other than turning the antenna?

Thanks.

Bigger antenna maybe, better location... check out the following post from Geof:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3128932#post3128932

cheers...

Originally posted by dr_mal
The Avs games on HDNet will be blacked out ... but the rebroadcast 3 hrs. delayed is not blacked out. Just stay away from the radio, other channels and the phone for 3 hrs. :)

Help...

Ok, I'm sure we have gone thru this once before but will one of you guys give me the scoop on the HD picture vs. the bars (sides, top and bottom).

I'm watching the Minnesota/Oregon game. It is being shown in a smaller 4:3 box. (fully cropped) My SAT says it's HD and it looks pretty good. But NOT as good as if it were 16:9. Not as detailed.

Hey? What is this? Is it the networks idea of half assed HD or is it not HD at all and my Sony attempts to bump it up.

Sorry for the school lesson. Last one of the year...(i think)

The local stations send their signal out at either 1080i or 720p (KMGH) all the time. If the broadcast is not HD, they send the SD signal with the bars on the sides but it is still being sent at 1080i or 720p. That is why your SAT shows it as HD when what it is really telling you is that the signal is at 1080i or 720p. That does not mean the picture itself is HD. Fox on KDVR is an exception in that they broadcast on their digital channel at 480p.

The only other factor for you is that KWGN and KMGH choose to stretch their SD picture to fill a widescreen all the time. When they are actually broadcasting an HD picture, you will see high quality and no stretching. Fox on 32 slightly stretches their SD picture to about a 14:9 ratio which does not show as much of the stretch.

To see what is really being broadcst in HD, you need to look at a service like TitanTV which produces a schedule showing HD programming. It is in error though a lot of the time.

Hope this helps.

Ernie, Tim, et al, I DON'T want receiver autoswitching of resolutions unless I have the option to turn it off - autoswitching would kill 720p channels for me, as my tv downconverts 720p signals to 480p, rather than converting them to 1080i.

I certainly understand your point, though, which is why I'm pushing for discrete codes to change output resolution with a single button press, rather than having to go into the menu to make the change.

I'm with Mark on this -- if my TV gets a 720p or 480i signal on it's component input, it doesn't do any converting -- it just looks all garbled. I need to know a signal will always be in 480p or 1080i before it gets to my TV.

My Bad! You guys are right. I forgot, all displays handle input signals differently. Mark's got the best idea, just have a button on the remote or a discrete code for a universal remote to change the output resolution. That's the ticket!

P.S. Still waiting on that call from Sears... Mr. Santella, your 921 is in.

"Truth in Advertising"

Boy oh Boy, I got a terrific scare while driving today.

Listing to the radio I kept hearing the Comcast Cable ad about HD. That only Comcast was going to show the playoffs and the SuperBowl in HD. And that if you have a dish you WILL NOT GET IT.

I began to panic. Until I realized that I was not getting my CBS games from the dish anyway. They are Over The Air.

But the wording had me attempting to get DirecTV on the phone, and I prepared myself to be pissed.

GeeWizz!

Originally posted by rightslot
"Truth in Advertising"

Boy oh Boy, I got a terrific scare while driving today.

Listing to the radio I kept hearing the Comcast Cable ad about HD. That only Comcast was going to show the playoffs and the SuperBowl in HD. And that if you have a dish you WILL NOT GET IT.

I began to panic. Until I realized that I was not getting my CBS games from the dish anyway. They are Over The Air.

But the wording had me attempting to get DirecTV on the phone, and I prepared myself to be pissed.

GeeWizz!

I saw a newspaper ad from Comcast that says the same thing. I guess they don't know that DISH Network has WCBS and KCBS in HD on their system either. I wonder why they don't mention the playoff games that are going to be on ABC? :rolleyes:

In case anyone is keeping track or is interested, KWGN made a small change and I now get both video and sound (in English) on my old Panasonic tuner. Thank you Dave M.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
...Also, we invite everyone to warm up by the fire/HD television with our presentation of "Yule Log" from 6:00am-9:00am with holiday music provided by KOSI radio.

Happy HD Holidays from WB2

Dave M
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HD:)


I didn't see this...I had just the news on all morning. Not that big of a deal, but did anyone else see the YL?

Rgds,

JohnW

No yule log for me either. No sound right now either. Picture looks good though!

Mits SR-HD5

Didn't catch the YL earlier show -- 'still sleeping it off', so to speak, but I did watch most of the Rose Parade. I had seen it in previous years in HD from other sources, but it was really great to just flip on OTA and watch. A beautiful job on the parade, it was truly spectacular. My congratulations to KWGN for obtaining the rights and passing on the commercial free feed from KTLA. Also thanks for not switching right off at the end and staying through the review of the prize winning floats. I noticed that the analog channels were already on normal weekday programming by that time. Thanks again Don W. and the crew at KWGN. You certainly 'one upped' the self proclaimed "Leader in HD" this morning.

Also a thanks to KWGN on great job on parade.

I think there is a clear leader in Denver HDTV, and it is KWGN!

So I am the only one that didn't have audio? It came back as soon as it was switched back to SD programming. Maybe it is a problem with my decoder in my receiver...

At This Point, I care about one thing and one thing only: The playoffs.

Pleae SOMEBODY, please get CBS Denver KCNC to boost the HD signal.

Come on!! I can't have people over and had the TV go "No Signal."

Just boost it and send us ALL a good, strong wave. Thanks!!

I think you have much better chance by putting up a bigger antenna! ;)

I use a DTC 100 receiver. Can someone clue me in on how to tune directly to a digital channel? For instance, when I switch to channel 2 - I get analog 2 and then have to tune up to 2-1. Same for 9-1.

Thanks
George

It's been a while since I've used the original remote, but there IS a way to enter a dash to indicate you want the digital channel. If there isn't an explicit dash button, you might be able to move the cursor to the right of the dash in the channel number before you hit Enter to confirm your channel number selection.

The Rose parade looked fantastic. I had some visitors who were suitably impressed also, with lots of questions about digital TV and how to get it.

It was a surprise that it was commercial free also. Not that I'm complaining :).

Thanks, KWGN and Tribune!

Mark

You're right Dr_Mal, the right arrow kicks it over to tune to a digital channel.

Thanks
George

Originally posted by GeorgeM
I use a DTC 100 receiver. Can someone clue me in on how to tune directly to a digital channel? For instance, when I switch to channel 2 - I get analog 2 and then have to tune up to 2-1. Same for 9-1.

Thanks
George

...yep, the right arrow will jump you over into the sub-channel box.

My question is: On the DTC-100, how do I remove the analog channel and unwanted sub-channels from my 'active' channel list, leaving only the lone digital channel that I want to watch? For example, right now, I have ch. 2 (analog), 2-1, and 2-2. I only ever want to watch 2-1, but because of the way profiles are managed, I'm forced to click through all three.

Am I missing something?

cheers

Originally posted by dcpoppy
So I am the only one that didn't have audio? It came back as soon as it was switched back to SD programming. Maybe it is a problem with my decoder in my receiver... I had no audio on KWGN-DT for the TORP either, using a DTC-100. :( I tried all the audio options: SAP On/Off, DD/PCM, Eng/Span, etc. I checked today (during SD programming) and the audio is back. KCNC-DT had the parade but not in HD. Fortunately, DHDT had it also, with audio. :)
Originally posted by dbucciar
My question is: On the DTC-100, how do I remove the analog channel and unwanted sub-channels from my 'active' channel list, leaving only the lone digital channel that I want to watch? For example, right now, I have ch. 2 (analog), 2-1, and 2-2. I only ever want to watch 2-1, but because of the way profiles are managed, I'm forced to click through all three.

Am I missing something?

cheers There's only one clugey way to do it that I know of. Turn off PSIP with "Do Not Acquire Off-Air Guides" and the DTV channels should show up on their native channel numbers. Then you can un-check 2 in your profile and keep 34 checked.

Ron is correct, that way works well to get rid of the analog versions if you don't want to access them.
Jeff

Originally posted by RonAuger
I had no audio on KWGN-DT for the TORP either, using a DTC-100. :( I tried all the audio options: SAP On/Off, DD/PCM, Eng/Span, etc. I checked today (during SD programming) and the audio is back. KCNC-DT had the parade but not in HD. Fortunately, DHDT had it also, with audio. :)

I don't know if I should feel better or worse.:(

I'll have to check tonight to see if there is still a problem.

I checked KWGN-DT tonight -- no audio on Reba. Seems like there's no audio on HD material, SD has audio.

Dennis(MileHi), do you have audio on KWGN-DT?

Ron:

I haven't chosen to tell you all my bad news. My F38310 quit a couple of weeks ago after 22 months. Tech came on the 29th and told me it had to go to the shop because the main computer "brains" were probably fried. So today I hauled it to the shop because they weren't going to pick it up themselves for another week.

So, I have not had HD for some time now. Watching TV on an older set in SD just doesn't cut it.

Hopefully, I will be back in business well before the super bowl. Thank goodness for a 5 year warranty that I bought!

Happy New Year to all!

Originally posted by RonAuger
There's only one clugey way to do it that I know of. Turn off PSIP with "Do Not Acquire Off-Air Guides" and the DTV channels should show up on their native channel numbers. Then you can un-check 2 in your profile and keep 34 checked.

Thanks Ron... that makes sense... but icky.

cheers

Dennis, my condolences on your loss ;)

My F38310 is just over 19 months and I too purchased an extended warranty.

There was seems to have been a sound problem with the TORP at the source. I watched it on Discovery-HD and, although my Sony receiver read DD 5.1, the only sound I got was out of my 2 main speakers.

I've been having intermittent issues with KWGN sound since he announced the Samsung receiver issue was fixed. Sometimes I have sound on D34-1, sometimes I have to go to D34-2 to get it. It's an annoyance, particularly for scheduling recording, never know if I'll get sound or not. No issues on any of the other channels, how come KWGN can't get this right?

On the plus side, they have superb picture quality.

bombarding the stations (specifically Channels 7 & 4) with letters, notes of dissatisfaction.

I am TIRED of looking at my menu screen and seeing that the game or movie in isn high def and KNOWNNG that I am not going to see it.

I’m tired.

Any of you guys care to help.,

Channel 7 in particular needs to get a better placement (mountain, tower, or whatever) and Channel 4 needs a better boost.

Why should I HAVE to move to Highlands Ranch??? !!!!
:( :mad: :confused:

Why should I HAVE to move to Highlands Ranch??? !!!!Because it's a good place to raise kids. ;)

Rightslot, Now that the LCGII tower was approved (any word on the lawsuits?) KCNC & KMGH aren't going to spend another penny 'til that tower is finished.

Rightslot:

Good idea. In fact such a good idea that we did just that to KMGH a couple hundred pages ago in this forum if you want to check. Letter came back from their lawyer saying that the new tower would be up shortly and they were not going to spend $400K to move. Both answers are BS. In other words, they don't care about the small HD audience. I actually wrote two more letters to KMGH with NO answer. Do a search for posts from jmartinko for the real skinny.

As far a 4 is concerned, I don't think anybody has really complained to them. Last year, they had sound issues and did work to fix the problems based on our feedback to them. Try writing an email to David Layne dlayne@cbs.com or Pat Brus pbrus@cbs.com who are their engineering guys. Maybe they will do something for you/us with their signal strength. For me, their signal has always been fine and is just a little lower than KUSA. I think a better antenna might allow you to get KCNC, but it isn't likely you will get KMGH.

Originally posted by rightslot
bombarding the stations (specifically Channels 7 & 4) with letters, notes of dissatisfaction.

I am TIRED of looking at my menu screen and seeing that the game or movie in isn high def and KNOWNNG that I am not going to see it.

I’m tired.

Any of you guys care to help.,

Channel 7 in particular needs to get a better placement (mountain, tower, or whatever) and Channel 4 needs a better boost.

Why should I HAVE to move to Highlands Ranch??? !!!!
:( :mad: :confused: You are too late with the letter campaign. That has been done, more than once.

What you need to get KCNC-DT is a decent antenna. You refuse to do that. There are many here who wont get it with any antenna until the tower is constructed. You should feel lucky that you could at least put forth an effort that would get you KCNC-DT but you refuse. Bitching here won't help and frankly it's getting a bit tiring.

Republic Plaza and City of Denver may be the ones stipulating the antenna size (atop RP) and the max power transmitter. Currently all three on RP use a 1kw xmitter and get 7-12 kw ERP. Everyone's experiences with the 3 stations vary. Don't look for the 'sitch' on RP to change -- be patient for LCG's tower on Lookout.

Originally posted by CEB II
There was seems to have been a sound problem with the TORP at the source. I watched it on Discovery-HD and, although my Sony receiver read DD 5.1, the only sound I got was out of my 2 main speakers. No, there was no audio problem at the source, it was just DD2.0, not 5.1. Your "blue light" glows whenever any of the Dolby Digital formats are present. The issue we're discussing is with KWGN-DT specifically.

Not exactly, Ron. It may have indeed been only 2.0 but that doesnt mean that Discovery HD wasnt sending it out with a 5.1 flag set. In fact that is what they were doing because my receiver also recognized the "5.1" signal on that channel (not to be confused with what the receiver shows on other <non 5.1> DD signals) even though it wasnt a true 5.1 signal.

Because of that it was better for me to just tune to KWGN to view it since I had no issues with the broadcast from them.

No HDTV football on KMGH right now!!
How do you contact them? All of the numbers on their website are voicemail numbers.

Originally posted by rightslot
bombarding the stations (specifically Channels 7 & 4) with letters, notes of dissatisfaction.

I am TIRED of looking at my menu screen and seeing that the game or movie in isn high def and KNOWNNG that I am not going to see it.

I’m tired.

Any of you guys care to help.,

Channel 7 in particular needs to get a better placement (mountain, tower, or whatever) and Channel 4 needs a better boost.

Why should I HAVE to move to Highlands Ranch??? !!!!
:( :mad: :confused:

Are you still using your little FM wire that came with your stereo to try to pick up HDTV? (BTW, I laughed for hours when I first read that :))

I'm not really that far from you, and I pick up CBS perfectly with my RS yagi on my roof. I agree with Geof, and suggest you try it, as I don't think complaining will get CBS to change anything until the tower goes up, and just annoys many of us.

Unfortunately for many of us, there is really no hope for KMGH, until the tower goes up.

The Ravens-Titans game looked excellent today! Only had maybe 3 or 4 1-2 second dropouts the entire game. Now for Dallas-Carolina!

Who else saw it?

Sure am glad I installed that 4228 way up high!

I'll second the 4228!

Without it, there would be no hope for KMGH for me.

I had a few more dropouts, but don't take that as a complaint.

Originally posted by squidboy
Are you still using your little FM wire that came with your stereo to try to pick up HDTV? (BTW, I laughed for hours when I first read that :))

I'm not really that far from you, and I pick up CBS perfectly with my RS yagi on my roof. I agree with Geof, and suggest you try it, as I don't think complaining will get CBS to change anything until the tower goes up, and just annoys many of us.

Unfortunately for many of us, there is really no hope for KMGH, until the tower goes up.

No, I'm not still using that FM wire. But soon as you catch your breath, tell me about the RS yagi. That's one I don't remember hearing about.

You are REALLY getting KMGH? Ok. So tell me about the yagi and give me some tips on installation. Or a installer.

BTW, no harm on the laughing, I bet it was funny.

:D :D :D

Anyone that does get KMGH notice that they are mapping correctly on LG boxes now? I have a SAT520 and it's always shown up on 17.1 with 7.1 showing a signal and programming information, but no picture. I wonder if the APG data was updated, or if KMGH is now sending PSIP data. My e86 always mapped it correctly, but I read that the e86 does not pay attention to PSIP data.

Yeah it's mapping to 7.1 on my Dish 6000 for the first time ever now also.

squidboy i'm waiting for your reply

I use a Panasonic HDS20 (one of those without a signal meter). After KWGN did a bit of tweaking last week, and after I did a channel reset I started receiving KWGN.

A belated but very sincere thank you to KWGN--last Sunday was probably the first Rose Bowl parade I have watched in well over a decade--spectacular picture!

Question to Broncos fans...I'm having some friends over who are excited to see them today in HDTV on a 110" screen & was wondering which station will carry the remaining games and dates? (If it's KMGH I don't have a chance to see them)

Note to Rightspot: I live by Alameda & Fairmount (not sure if I'm close to you or not), and put up a Radio Shack antenna in the attic. KCNC (CBS) has always had a great signal for me. Since I haven't put the antenna outside, KMGH (ABC) is a joke--I've never received a signal.

Finally, thanks to those who have been posting for so long. You got me started with HDTV and have given this forum so much information to share!

The rest of the AFC Playoffs and Super bowl will all be on KCNC.

Righslot, below a link to a Radio Shack Yagi that was mentioned. It's like 40" long and 20" tall. Obviously too big to be near the tv but works well in an attic. As far as installation, the only issue really is figuring out how to get the cable from your attic to your receiver.

In that regard, it's sometimes easier to just put it outdoors. But if for whatever reason you'd rather not have it outdoors thats fine too because it's not like it being outdoors will give you a shot at any channels you wouldnt get by it being in the attic. Cause in your case, from where you live, you're not going to get ABC (until they move to Lookout..same with squidboy..he doesnt get ABC either though he gets CBS fine) no matter what you do. Short of subscribe to Comcast cable whenever they get around to offering ABC HD on their system.

Anyway, heres the link to the antenna: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160

Originally posted by DP1
The rest of the AFC Playoffs and Super bowl will all be on KCNC.

Righslot, below a link to a Radio Shack Yagi that was mentioned. It's like 40" long and 20" tall. Obviously too big to be near the tv but works well in an attic. As far as installation, the only issue really is figuring out how to get the cable from your attic to your receiver.

In that regard, it's sometimes easier to just put it outdoors. But if for whatever reason you'd rather not have it outdoors thats fine too because it's not like it being outdoors will give you a shot at any channels you wouldnt get by it being in the attic. Cause in your case, from where you live, you're not going to get ABC (until they move to Lookout..same with squidboy..he doesnt get ABC either though he gets CBS fine) no matter what you do. Short of subscribe to Comcast cable whenever they get around to offering ABC HD on their system.

Anyway, heres the link to the antenna: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-2160



Don't laugh Squidboy! ---------We are talking DIGITAL right? So--is the cable HD any better/not as good as the HD I'm getting from the dish?

Why? What difference does it make?

Well because if it is the same-- (and it should be) then I have a hard time justifying having this dish. Cable is simpler. And when we (they) get the local thing all squared away, it should be better.

I'm one of those who value the local channels in HD as much as HD Net, HDNet Movies, ESPN, etc.

So, what do you think?

Originally posted by DP1
The rest of the AFC Playoffs and Super bowl will all be on KCNC.

Righslot, below a link to a Radio Shack Yagi that was mentioned. It's like 40" long and 20" tall. Obviously too big to be near the tv but works well in an attic. As far as installation, the only issue really is figuring out how to get the cable from your attic to your receiver.


THANKS FOR THE LINK!

Only $22.00 !

Hmmmm. The deal of the Century or what? Looks good.

This will maybe keep me from losing Channel 4 and 9 occasionally.

Good. Thanks.

I posted this in it's own thread, but I thought I'd get a better response here.

I have a Zenith SAT 520 and Direct TV. I live in Ken-Caryl and have a direct view of downtown Denver. Last year I thought the Super Bowl was on 17-1. I've tried pulling all the local HDTV channels in and only get 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 9-1, 31-1. I thought the local CBS HDTV was 35-1. What's going on. On the 4-1 channel it says CBS KCNCD (35). I get zero signal strength on all channels. Am I doing something wrong with the SAT 520. This shouldn't be this difficult. Maybe I'll subscribe to Comcast for the playoffs. They sure have big ads in the paper touting how they are the only ones with the AFC playoffs in HDTV. What the hell is wrong with Direct TV or Dish. Last year the Super Bowl came up immediately on the SAT 520. This is a pain in the ass. Thanks a lot.

Ken

Ken what are you asking? Your post is confusing? The Bronco's game isn't on 'til 2pm MT

You say you can pull in digital 2-1, 4-1, 7-1, 9-1, 31-1. Well, KCNC CBS is digital 4-1 (which is the same as DT35-1) The stations can remap their channel numbers.

Ken,

You say you get zero signal strength on all channels.

I must ask the obvious - what are you using for an antenna? Where is it pointed?

Verify the connections, too.

You do have all the right channels mapped on your receiver.

This is confusing. The channels are there, but they have 0 strength. Maybe I'm doing something wrong on the Sat 520. All the direct TV stations show up, but I can't get a picture on any of the HDTV channel. They all show zero strength. Thanks

Ken

Well you need to have an over the air antenna installed, Ken.. do you? The mere fact that those channels show up in the guide has nothing to do with your ability to view them. They're in the guide to make it easy for you to see whats on but that info is all coming down to you via satellite from DirecTv as part of the so-called Advanced Program Guide. But DirecTv doesnt actually provide the HD Local channels for viewing the way they provide the SD Local channels.

You need some sort of UHF antenna hooked up to your 520 to actually be able to view those local HD channels.

I have a RadioShack VU-120XR antenna hooked up to the antenna in on the SAT 520. This is one big antenna that worked fine for the Super Bowl last year. I believe the 120 stands for miles and the XR stand for extra range. I have a direct line of sight to the buildings in downtown Denver. i guess I'll just watch on normal TV. Thanks.

Ken

That "VU-120" antenna from Radio Shack doesn't have ANYTHING like 120 miles range - more like about 30miles VHF and probably less UHF. And with your "low power" DTV stations in Denver - the VU120 won't pickup ABC unless you're practically in the parking lot (as so many of you have said). If you want to have a chance with ABC - you'll need one big honking UHF antenna - aimed right at the transmitting antenna at Republic Plaza.

Well ok Ken, so you do have an antenna hooked up. Then theres no reason you should be getting 0's across the board. Something isnt right. Improper hookup, bad connection, something.

Maybe a flaky connection Ken....you might try taking out any splitters to see what happens (ie, temporarily run the antenna straight to the STB).

On the other hand not even HD can help correct the crappy play of Denver today.

Originally posted by pookers
Info.....
Thank you for your interest in KMGH-DT. Our Digital transmitter is located
atop our building at Speer and Lincoln and operates at low power. Line of
sight to the top of our building is necessary to be able to receive a
signal. KMGH and other broadcasters are presently working with Jefferson
County to resolve issues regarding the broadcast of High Definition signals
from the Lookout Mountain transmitter site.

Sorry for the delay, I have been out of the office for the last couple of
weeks.


Thanks
Rick Craddock
Director of Engineering
KMGH

Get to the TOP of the Mountain!

rightslot,

Sorry for the confusion. KCNC is CBS, which I get fine. KMGH is ABC, which I have 0 signal strength on. I don't think a 500 foot antenna would pick up that station in our area.

I use the antenna that DP1 linked to. Figure about $50 or so after you figure in tax, mounting hardware, etc. Not really that much when you consider the cost of all the other components in your system.

As a side note, I ust replaced my old (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F004&product%5Fid=15%2D889) mounting bracket with this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F004&product%5Fid=15%2D883). MUCH more stable. If you look a few pages back, you can find a snapshot of my antenna tipped over with the old mount.

With this modest setup, I get KWGN (WB 2/2-1, 2-2), KCNC (CBS 4/4-1), KRMA (PBS 6/6-1), KUSA (NBC 9/9-1), KBDI (PBS 12/12-1,12-2,12-3), KDVR (FOX 31/32-1) and KWHD (46/46-1). 46 occasionally breaks up, I get no signal on 7-1 or 15-1. Otherwise, I get all the other stations perfectly.

Again, I highly recommend getting an outdoor antenna if you want to pick up these stations until the tower is complete.

Thanks for the laughs, no offense was intended.

Eric

To Squidboy and all,


Thanks for all the info.

I will try to get it together before the SuperBowl.

The game looked good, really great, today. (we'll talk about "the mastermind" later).

But I'd hate to have people over watching the Bowl and then I have to get up and do this song and dance about the stupid antenna. (

So I'll try to go outside.

I'll really be glad when we don't have this as a concern.

I am so hooked on HD that most of the time I watch programs that I have NO interest in.

But they are so clear!! So I'll watch that train going up the mountain. I'll watch RUDY on another trip to some unknown village in Italy. Don't really give a hoot, but the town's buildings, and cars are crystal clear.

That's why I spent the big $$ for my setup.

You understand right?

Originally posted by rightslot
I am so hooked on HD that most of the time I watch programs that I have NO interest in.

Like the Superbowl or any remaining playoff games, now that the Broncos are out? :mad:

Football season is over. Now I can ski on Sundays.

Good day!

Hopefully everyone enjoyed the Rose Parade. I noticed that some did not receive audio and I am quite puzzled as to why this occured.

If the persons with current audio troubles could get back to me with the problems they are having and equipment they are using, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
2-1,2-2

Squidboy,

Try getting 4 of these and stacking them with the proper phasing harness:

http://www.lindsayelec.com/superzz-uhf.html

on that 500 foot tower, with another 50 DB of amplification, filters for all of the other UHF stations... careful aiming and placement, you might be surprised !

If it works, let me know...I may be next in line for some myself
:)

Phil P.

I know that this post is going to receive several comments like "I don't seem to get any Dolby Digital or a picture from KMGH", but I'm a glutton for punishment so here it goes.

After reading information in the HDTV programming thread, It says that the Sugar bowl and the NFL Wild Card games were to be available in DD 5.1. I only received a 2.0 DD signal for all 3 games. I get DD 5.1 for just about every film based broadcast they send out (Alias, NYPD Blue, WWoD etc.) but never on their live sports coverage. I also noticed that FOX is to be sending a 5.1 audio track for any live Fox Digital Wide Screen sports feed and I do not get these in 5.1 either.

Is this a case of our local affiliates not giving us what is available or is the thread incorrect? If the thread is correct then I have to say that this is very upsetting to me. After all, I waited to buy my first LD player until DD (AC-3) was available. I wouldn't think of purchasing a new release DVD unless it was available in DD or DTS, so why do we have to put up with inferior sound from our favorite shows (or in the case of FOX, why do we loose one of the few reasons to receive their station at all).:confused:

I thought someone in my neck of the woods would find this info useful!
I have a Sony 57WS550 (Widescreen with internal Digital Tuner)

Radio Shack Omni-Directional low profile antenna (70 well spent dollars) I think it's actually meant for RV's. (It may be helpful to let people also know about the only Radio Shack in town with these in stock is at 72nd and Federal. Radio Schack next to my house said the closest one was in Casper Wyoming, so persistance pays off!)

My reception is INCREDIBLE! The antenna is currently indoors on top of my kitchen cabinets until we get some warmer weather.

Current digital channels I get are.....
2-1 and 2-2 (KWGN)
4-1 (KCNC)
6-1 (sometimes)
9-1 (KUSA)
32-1 (KDVR)
3 channels from KBDI I think are 38-1,2,3 or 36-1,2,3

The only reception problems I have had are when my wife is using the hair-dryer, since the bathroom is between the antenna and Republic Plaza (Which I do not have a direct view of anyway)

Originally posted by ppasteur
Squidboy,

Try getting 4 of these and stacking them with the proper phasing harness:

http://www.lindsayelec.com/superzz-uhf.html

on that 500 foot tower, with another 50 DB of amplification, filters for all of the other UHF stations... careful aiming and placement, you might be surprised !

If it works, let me know...I may be next in line for some myself
:)

Phil P.

OK, I'll get right on it and let you know the results. :rolleyes: ;)

Edit: Good thing I don't have an HOA, huh?

Originally posted by KWGN-DT 11/18/03
We are currently at 450kW ERP.
As far as full power (1MW) - we are still working through some local zoning issues. Time frame unknown.
Don

Don,
I know you're still working toward going full power. In the mean time, is there any chance of bumping up your power a bit, maybe 20 or 30kW?

I'm ever so close to achieving your signal, just right on the edge.
After extensive antenna experimentation, I think a bit more juice is the ticket to finally getting a lock.

Just thought it couldn't hurt to ask.
Any possibility?
Thanks,
Tom

Originally posted by Greg T
Anyone that does get KMGH notice that they are mapping correctly on LG boxes now? I have a SAT520 and it's always shown up on 17.1 with 7.1 showing a signal and programming information, but no picture. I wonder if the APG data was updated, or if KMGH is now sending PSIP data. My e86 always mapped it correctly, but I read that the e86 does not pay attention to PSIP data.

KMGH started mapping to 7-1 & 7-2 on both my Samsung and Zenith STBs just under a week ago. By the way KCNC, which also wouldn't remap from 35 to 4 on either of the receivers, started to do so about the same time.

Tommy,

With our output of 450kW, we are currently reaching as far north as Fort Collins and Greeley, as far east as the extents of Elbert County and as far south (known) as Castle Rock. Your location in central Denver should be receiving us with no problem as many viewers have stated in this forum. If you cannot receive WB2 it is entirely possible your antenna is pointed at Republic tower and not Lookout Mountain where our signal is transmitted from. I suggest you re-orient your antenna.


Dave M
KWGN-TV/WB2
2-1,2-2

As I understand (admittedly my knowledge here is very little) the PSIP spec, stations should ALL be remapping their digital channel to their analog number. That's the exact point of having a virtual channel number in PSIP. Perhaps 1/1/04 was a certain deadline for the stations?

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Good day! Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
2-1,2-2

Just letting you know-----------

As far as I'm concerned, Channel 2 is doing the BEST JOB of all the local stations.

you are the ONLY one who is consistent. I like your picture. Looks good even on old reruns.

Go have a beer on me! Or maybe Squidboy or one of us.

Thanks

Originally posted by dr_mal
As I understand (admittedly my knowledge here is very little) the PSIP spec, stations should ALL be remapping their digital channel to their analog number. That's the exact point of having a virtual channel number in PSIP. Perhaps 1/1/04 was a certain deadline for the stations?
Sometime late last week KCNC started remapping to 4-1 on my Samsung SIR-T151; previously it only showed up as 35-1. KDVR has never remapped, always showing up as 32-1. Yesterday evening KRMA, which has always mapped to 6-1 suddenly started remapping to 80-3.

Anyone else notice this?

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Tommy,

With our output of 450kW, we are currently reaching as far north as Fort Collins and Greeley, as far east as the extents of Elbert County and as far south (known) as Castle Rock. Your location in central Denver should be receiving us with no problem as many viewers have stated in this forum. If you cannot receive WB2 it is entirely possible your antenna is pointed at Republic tower and not Lookout Mountain where our signal is transmitted from. I suggest you re-orient your antenna.

Dave M
KWGN-TV/WB2
2-1,2-2


Dave,

Unfortunately, where I live, Republic Plaza is about 6 blocks away and is directly between me and Lookout. So yes, in a sense, I do have to roughly point toward Republic to point at Lookout.

One thing I know now is, in my situation, the dreaded multipath is often actually more friend than foe. I've had to learn to use it as a tool and and set my antennas in very unexpected positions. You'd be amazed with the wonderful signals I get from all the Republic transmitters with an antenna not really aimed at Republic at all. Same goes the KMGH stick on Speer, comes in well.

Now I am trying to conquer your Lookout signal, in spite having a lot of buildings and such to deal with. I do get a consistent but not-quite-strong-enough signal from your KWGN-DT transmitter. It frequently spikes strongly just long enough to get my hopes up but not long enough to lock in a picture.

I have several KWGN-DT antenna-position hot spots. I'm right on the cusp. I just thought a bit more power might help me.

Anyway, thank you for your reply, Dave.
I'll just keep trying.
Tom

KWGN did a nice feature on their HDTV broadcasting last night on their 9 PM newscast. It featured KWGN's Don and Dave, our much appreciated forum members.

Anyway, some key points they made in the story:

(1) They are broadcasting at 450 KW "with plans to double it", which is actually the highest power DTV signal in Denver. Their graphic showed KDVR at 230 KW, if I remember, and the others around 11 KW. They also showed a good map of their approximate coverage area. [It seems like we've always had some doubt about KDVR's power. I get KDVR and KWGN at about the same signal strength in Ft. Collins. KDVR, of course has an altitude advantage with their antenna location.]

(2) They are currently broadcasting about 60% of prime time in HDTV.

(3) They are in discussions with Comcast to carry their HDTV feed.

Ernie Bjorkman misspoke when he said you currently need a "transmitter" to get the DTV signal, when he meant an antenna and/or receiver, but otherwise it was a pretty good feature.

Mark

I wish I knew that feature was going to be on last night -- would've liked to have seen it.

To KWGN-DT (since you asked, Don):
I have an RCA-DTC100 built-in to my RCA F38310 HDTV. I beleive it is considered a 1st generation receiver. I haven't been able to receive audio whenever you broadcast HD. The Sony HD200 receiver I have does not have any problem. I'll test again tonight with Gilmore Girls. I tested with SD material several times yesterday and lost audio only a few times (perhaps 5% of the time). Tuning off and back on channel brings it back. I have the same issue with KUSA-DT but with no other channels. Even KCNC-DT, which is the lowest signal level at my house, doesn't ever lose the audio lock like KUSA-DT and KWGN-DT does.

Originally posted by oxothuk
Yesterday evening KRMA, which has always mapped to 6-1 suddenly started remapping to 80-3.

Anyone else notice this?

On my E* 811 KRMA also started mapping to 80-3. The ID now says PBSD1 or something similar (I'm at work and can't check for sure. BTW, for reference my 811 maps as follows: KWGN 2-1, 2-2; KUSA 16-1; KCNC 35-1; KDVR 32-1; KBDI 38-1, 38-2, 38-3 and (cant remember the call letters) 53-1.
Prior to the 80-3 thing KRMA was 6-1.

Here is a dumb question:

When I rotate the antenna, I lose some channels. Howabout installing two antennas in different directions instead of one? Is there a way to combine signals from both antennas and feed into STB?

Thanks,

Originally posted by kumarv
Here is a dumb question:

When I rotate the antenna, I lose some channels. Howabout installing two antennas in different directions instead of one? Is there a way to combine signals from both antennas and feed into STB?

Thanks,
My RCA DTC-100 has two antenna inputs. Once the HD DirecTiVos are released, I'll be looking to sell the DTC-100. Let me know if it would help in your situation.

As to combining signals, I'll leave that to more knowledgeable people. (Paging Geof -- Geof to the Denver Tower thread please)

Originally posted by whtevr77
On my E* 811 KRMA also started mapping to 80-3. The ID now says PBSD1 or something similar (I'm at work and can't check for sure. BTW, for reference my 811 maps as follows: KWGN 2-1, 2-2; KUSA 16-1; KCNC 35-1; KDVR 32-1; KBDI 38-1, 38-2, 38-3 and (cant remember the call letters) 53-1.
Prior to the 80-3 thing KRMA was 6-1.

After about a day as 80-3, sometime yesterday evening KRMA went back to mapping as 6-1 for me.

It seems that KCNC, KUSA, and KBDI will remap to their analog channel numbers for me but not for you. What is it about the PSIP specification that causes such different behavior from receiver to receiver. Is it really that unclear?

Program guide information is another area that needs work. Currently I get a meaninfgul guide on KWGN and dummy entries for "DTV program" on KCNC. A few weeks ago I was getting a meaningful guide on KUSA but no longer. All other stations display "No Information" in the guide. It would be especially useful to have the guide from KRMA-DT since the link on their website no longer works.

Originally posted by kumarv
Here is a dumb question:

When I rotate the antenna, I lose some channels. Howabout installing two antennas in different directions instead of one? Is there a way to combine signals from both antennas and feed into STB?

Thanks,

Spend $70.00 on this! (or any other OMNIDIRECTIONAL)

My Sony Internal Tuner would re-scan digital channels too.
It has a DC-Power adapter to amplify the signal, and I get everything but Channel 7 HD. It's mounted about 8 feet high in my kitchen and penetrating about 6 walls between it and downtown/lookout mountain. I am also in a small depression, and have no direct line of sight to either.

Whenever my DVR-921 shows up, I'll mount this on my roof, and be done with it!

It wont let me post a link, but it's on radioshack's web site.

Outdoor antennas, and it's the model 15-1634

Huh...??? Somebody woke me up...:)

Combining signals doesn't work too well. If two antennas are stacked on top of one another and pointed in the same direction it's okay but once one of them is pointed in another direction the two signals are no longer in phase (one is delayed by a very short amount of time). That means they no longer add together and you can start loosing signal level rapidly (you'd loose 3-4 dB just by putting a combiner in the path and then even more when the antennas are pointed in different directions). Things get even more unpredictable when multipath occurs. In fact having two signals coming into the receiver that are slightly out of phase looks like multipath to the receiver and ATSC receivers are notoriously sensitive to multipath. You really don't want to go there......

Originally posted by oxothuk
After about a day as 80-3, sometime yesterday evening KRMA went back to mapping as 6-1 for me.

It seems that KCNC, KUSA, and KBDI will remap to their analog channel numbers for me but not for you. What is it about the PSIP specification that causes such different behavior from receiver to receiver. Is it really that unclear?

Program guide information is another area that needs work. Currently I get a meaninfgul guide on KWGN and dummy entries for "DTV program" on KCNC. A few weeks ago I was getting a meaningful guide on KUSA but no longer. All other stations display "No Information" in the guide. It would be especially useful to have the guide from KRMA-DT since the link on their website no longer works.

When I first entered KUSA (month ago) it mapped to 9-1 but I ended up having to scan to get all the channels (an 811 issue) and it stayed at 16-1 since. As far as program guides...I have none of any sort on any channel except for analog KUSA. All say "Local Digital" and "no information". I don't know why it would be so different from receiver to receiver.

I did not check KRMA this morning so it is possible that it's back to 6-1.

PSIP data is handled differently from receiver to receiver because there are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation receivers out there. With the manufacturers experience with DTV comes knowledge; with knowledge comes new release of hardware and software; with new releases come changes in behavior.

Also, only KUSA-DT and KWGN-DT were ever sending any dynamic (guide) PSIP data. The other broadcaster haven't stepped up to the PSIP plate yet. To confuse things, some satellite/OTA receivers with APG clone guide info from D* (and E*, I presume) onto the the anolg and digital OTA channel. In fact my Sony does this exclusively, I believe. I could not get it to pull PSIP data OTA.

You must realize what an new and fledgling technology this is to the broadcasters and manufacturers (especially in this area!)

Originally posted by kumarv
Here is a dumb question:

When I rotate the antenna, I lose some channels. Howabout installing two antennas in different directions instead of one? Is there a way to combine signals from both antennas and feed into STB?

Thanks,

As Geof said, thats not really a good idea. But what you can do is use 2 diff antennas but have them isolated from each other via like an A/B switch. Then feed the receiver whichever side you want to depending on the channel(s) you want to watch. Kind of a hassle but doable. Theres even remote control A/B switches so as to at least not have to get up to manually slide the switch.

The Omnidirectional's dont automatically solve the issue in a town like this where everything is so relatively low power and perhaps in entirely different directions depending on where exactly one lives. Sometimes you have to have the ability to really zero in on particular stations.

Thank you guys. I guess I will try a signal booster.

Ay ideas why DirectTV SHOHD, Channel 543 is not listing the "HD" designation on any of it's programs in the EPG anymore? There are many HD programs on SHOHD, but the "HD" designation is not being listed like it used to be.

Tuning off and back on channel brings it back.

I remember having that problem with channel 18-1 about a year ago on the F38310, except I got a ticking sound when the audio did not sync up. Then if I recall correctly, KRMA changed their audio stream (inadvertently if I recall?) and the problem went away.

I have noticed the dtc100 lack of audio problem recently occasionally with channel 16-1, however, it is total silence not the ticking sound and selecting a different channel and then back to 16-1 brings the audio back.

There were also dtc100 PSIP problems with the 80-3 mapping; this is the mapping of the PBS high definition feed. KRMA for about the past year until the last few months had remapped it to 18-3 which seemed to help a lot with switching between 18-1 (upconverted SD feed) and the high def feed in the evening. DennisMileHigh pointed out that if you turn PSIP off, the switching between 18-1 and 80-3 was not problematic on the dtc100 I now get the KRMA high def feed on 18-1 on the dtc-100.

With all of the PSIP issues, I like Dennis have turned the PSIP off. I have not noticed the audio sync problem on 34-2 during high def programs. Channel 34-3 shows a high def feed but is generally silent.

KWGN high definition PQ is fantastic. I have not had many problems through the PSIP experimentation period in that I have kept PSIP off and there is little incentive to turn it on, especially when the dtc-100 requires a full channel search to turn it on or off (takes many minutes covering multiple passes of both antenna inputs).

Don

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Good day!

Hopefully everyone enjoyed the Rose Parade. I noticed that some did not receive audio and I am quite puzzled as to why this occured.

If the persons with current audio troubles could get back to me with the problems they are having and equipment they are using, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!!

Dave M.
KWGN-TV/WB2
2-1,2-2

Ok, starting sometime prior to the Tournament of Roses I lost audio on all HDTV transmissions on 34-1. I'm not sure exactly when, but I think it may have coincided with the Samsung fix. I finally have my antenna in its home in my attic and finished the permanent cable run tonight. The lack of a permanent install prior to today is why I don't know exactly when the problem started (the wife didn't like the coax coming from the attic through the loft, over the railing and into the living room - can't understand why).:D

I added channel 2-2 today (never noticed it in the channel list before). No audio on it either. No problems on KWGN-DT upconverted NTSC. No problems on other NTSC or ATSC stations. 100 signal strength on KWGN.

Audio receiver locks on DD audio stream on both 34-1 and 2-2, but there is no sound, no matter how I have audio processing set.

Sat receiver: Mitsubishi SR-HD5
Audio receiver: Pioneer Elite 49-txi

Originally posted by dcpoppy

Audio receiver locks on DD audio stream on both 34-1 and 2-2, but there is no sound, no matter how I have audio processing set.

Sat receiver: Mitsubishi SR-HD5
Audio receiver: Pioneer Elite 49-txi That is odd. I have the Hughes E86 and have no issues with sound on KWGN-DT. I am a DirecTV sub and their APG lists KWGN-DT as being 2-1. Maybe you have older firmware...??

Geof, do you have program guide info for 2-1?

Also, I don't have a manual as it was a HEAVILY discounted open box at SoundTrack. Is there a way to upgrade firmware, or even check the version on these Hughes clones?

Originally posted by RonAuger
To KWGN-DT (since you asked, Don):
I have an RCA-DTC100 built-in to my RCA F38310 HDTV. I beleive it is considered a 1st generation receiver. I haven't been able to receive audio whenever you broadcast HD. I'll test again tonight with Gilmore Girls. Gilmore Girls wasn't HD tonight for some reason .. but I did have audio on both 34-2 and 34-3! I'll try and see if I have audio during Smallville tomorrow night.

Originally posted by kumarv
When I rotate the antenna, I lose some channels. Howabout installing two antennas in different directions instead of one? Is there a way to combine signals from both antennas and feed into STB?

Personally I think it would be best to use an antenna rotator. The problem you might get into is not only would you be combining real path signals for stations, but you might also be combining multipath signals.

With a highly directional antenna, you can hopefully avoid a multipath signal that can cause the 8VSB signal to basically cancel out in the receiver (8VSB is not very good with multipath, compared to COFDM, or so I've read). If you combine two antennas, you might have one pointing at the real path, and by bad luck, get a good multipath signal, even though the antenna was aimed for a different station.

Again, personal opinion, YMMV.

Originally posted by dcpoppy
Geof, do you have program guide info for 2-1?

Also, I don't have a manual as it was a HEAVILY discounted open box at SoundTrack. Is there a way to upgrade firmware, or even check the version on these Hughes clones? Chris,
I believe the unit uses the APG from DirecTv and not PSIP. It shows up in the guide as 2-1 (not 2-2 or 2-3). I haven't really played around with the E86 to know how it works without my DirecTv dish connected. Since our receivers are essentially the same thing I thought you'd like to know that there is no inherent reason why it's not getting sound on KWGN-DT. The only reasons I can think of off hand are:
1) You're tuned to the wrong subchannel, or
2) You have old firmware that may be causing the issue, or
3) You STB is defective (low probability since you get sound on other channels).

And I really don't know if old firmware could affect your problem.....

FWIW, you can download a copy of the user manual here (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/Manuals.dsp).

Originally posted by RonAuger
Gilmore Girls wasn't HD tonight for some reason .. but I did have audio on both 34-2 and 34-3! I'll try and see if I have audio during Smallville tomorrow night.

I noticed it too. For the initial 10 minutes or so, it wasn't HD. Later it was. Weird huh?

Anyone know the value of a Mits 55857 with 5 year warr (06'). I'd like to get enough to put a small dent in the price of my new 65"er to be delivered on Saturday.
Thank you.

I'd say about $87 ;)

It's really hard to sell TV's. I tried to sell my Sony XBR2 and didn't get one bite in the RMN.
I ended up selling it to a friend who needed a new TV. You could try AudiogoN. Maybe you'd find someone local. Good Luck!

Anyone have an Dish 6000 with 8VSB module they are trying to sell? How about you guys receiving your 921's?

Ron,

You've got mail. (PM)

I am on 4 different waiting lists, and still nothing! This is killing me!

Did anyone else notice that KBDI-DT started mapping last night to 12-1, 12-2 and 12-3? (instead of 38) First time that has happened for me. Also KRMA-DT (6-1) seems flawless now. I used to get audio, and signal lost once in a while, but now I get 90%+ signal strength. I also started to get 2 different religious channels in the high 40's or low 50's (digital).

Yes I saw the 12-1, 12-2, 12-3 mapping.... using an RCA receiver.

For those of you with D* and have a hard time with KCNC-DT, you need to see this thread regarding
DirecTV to carry CBS HD (and Super Bowl) in O&O Markets! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=347953)
Denver is O&O (owned and operated, not a network affiliate) for CBS and Fox.

So will KCNC grant the needed waviers????

I thought O&O meant no waiver needed or at least "rubber-stamped". In reading the thread, it sounds as if no waiver is needed. But I won't count my chickens until I find out what channel it is, hear of someone getting it, and look for myself. I thought I remember hearing that most Dish'rs here had an easy time getting a waiver.

Originally posted by skyview
So will KCNC grant the needed waviers????

They did for Dish Network, so I don't see why they wouldn't. I got a fax from Wendy Holmes, program director in Feb 2002.

Better start calling D* now! It might take a week-to-ten days to get a CSR that actually would understand what an O&O is and give you the channel!

Originally posted by Geof
Chris,
I believe the unit uses the APG from DirecTv and not PSIP. It shows up in the guide as 2-1 (not 2-2 or 2-3). I haven't really played around with the E86 to know how it works without my DirecTv dish connected. Since our receivers are essentially the same thing I thought you'd like to know that there is no inherent reason why it's not getting sound on KWGN-DT. The only reasons I can think of off hand are:
1) You're tuned to the wrong subchannel, or
2) You have old firmware that may be causing the issue, or
3) You STB is defective (low probability since you get sound on other channels).

And I really don't know if old firmware could affect your problem.....

FWIW, you can download a copy of the user manual here (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/Manuals.dsp).

Geof,

Thanks for the reply. You are right, it does get guide info from D* which really confuses me as to why mine is not identical to yours. I do have D8 connected, so I should have the same guide info. I did check out the guide in a cursory manner and didn't see anything that would help.

Update.
I just did a channel scan and no longer have 34-1. 2-1 is listed with full program guide (yay!) and 2-2 remains with no program info. Since KWGN is broadcasting upconverted ATSC, I have audio currently, as I would expect. I will check at 7:30 to see if there is sound on 2-1. I have my fingers crossed.

I'm not sure about the waiver idea either, but I'd think that would have been mentioned by D* as part of the requirements if it applied. I know E* needed them, but then again, D* carried CBS's NFL, and those CBS games were not blacked out on D* if the same game was on KCNC. That had something to do with D* sponsoring the HD broadcast, but the same principle might apply here. (And, a subscription to the Locals and TC+ package requirement may be the same idea (although much cheaper) as requiring a NFL ST subscription for the games). And although FOX did black out when same games aired, we are now talking about the head of FOX mandating the O&O situation. After the flap (and lawsuits) thrown around PT24 several years back, I feel confident that D* had ensured all the legalities were handled upfront of the announcement. Then again, I could be wrong, but I would suspect many cities that have CBS HD (and FOX WS) somewhat easily received OTA, there may be no waivers granted, and that would really put a damper in the whole kabosh. I don't think that is a situation D* wants to get into. Overlapping DMAs, however, may be a different story.

Anybody in Denver won't need a waiver to get CBS-HD from D*.

KCNC is O&O, so there's a blanket waiver in place.

The only people who might have overlapping DMA issues are people to the extreme north, who might overlap with Cheyenne (perhaps those of us in Greeley or Ft. Collins) or in the south who might overlap with the Springs (no further north than Castle Rock I'd imagine). For the vast majority of us, we won't have an issue. No need to contact D* or KCNC; we've got an automatic waiver. Same goes for Fox, since they're O&O.

Being in the Mountain time zone, we're scheduled to get the LA feed, so by my math, we'll get shows 2 hours later than on KCNC. Great news for timeshifting.

My experience was that Dish did not require a waiver (o&o) but the CSRs couldn't understand that. Since KCNC was willing to grant one (they were well aware of the people at Dish not having sufficient knowledge on the subject) it was easier to get one than fight with CSRs.

By definition, living in an o&o market that does not qualify for reception of non-o&o stations (Dish tried to tell me I could receive KGWN in Wyoming) makes you eligible for CBS' HD feed. At least that was the way the Dish Network agreement was written.

I don't think CSRs will be an issue either, since there is no separate package to subscribe to in order to get the CBS HD and FOX WS feeds. It sounds from the press release that they will automagically appear in your guide and be active when available and O&O DMA is met.

Cool, I love when things happen automagically!

I am very happy because All About the Andersons is on and I can hear it! There is audio on 2-1, still none on 2-2, even on commercials. If I am tuned to 2-2 and then go to 2-1, I have no sound on 2-1 either. But, if I tune to the next channel in my guide (happens to be a DirecTV channel, not OTA) and then back to 2-1 I have audio. So, 2-2 will be leaving my program guide immediately!

Thanks again to KWGN for providing us beatiful pictures that I can once again hear!

FYI,
I just talked to the control room at KUSA, ER is going to be in HD at 20 minutes in. They had some technical difficulties recording from the national feed earlier today.

Originally posted by dr_mal


Being in the Mountain time zone, we're scheduled to get the LA feed, so by my math, we'll get shows 2 hours later than on KCNC. Great news for timeshifting.

Yeah thats what it sounds like. That D* will be dictating which feed you get. Unlike E* where it simply depended on which wing slot you were aimed at. And from these neck of the woods both 61.5 and 148 are generally doable.

I get both the E/W feeds from Bev (and the east feed from E* also for that matter) and I use the East feed much more often. It's an hour earlier than our local feed. The problem with the West feed is primetime runs from 9-Midnight our time. 2/3's of that is past my bedtime. ;) For people that tend to stay up later it's fine though.

But I have a means to record it so sometimes I'll just do that and watch it the next night if I missed watching or recording it on the East feed's or locally on the night it aired.

Regardless of all that though it's always nice to have more options.

That feed will be a little late for me, too, but it gives me options for when the HD DirecTiVo comes out in case I have a 3-way conflict and "only" two HD tuners available.

Has anyone had problems with a Dish 6000's OTA receiver "hanging-up" while trying to tune DT KRMA or KBDI? Perhaps my receiver has something against public television -- I can't seem to get any of these channels to come in all of a sudden. If I delete the channels and re-add them, I can see OK signal strength (60-85, I think), but when trying to turn to the channel to watch, the receiver seems to hang-up for about 20-30 seconds, and the screen remains blank. I've also noticed that when re-adding the channels, it does not seem to be picking up the remapping data, which I thought was working fine before. I've tried leaving the receiver in this hung state for a few minutes to see if it will eventually lock on a signal and display it, I've also tried leaving the receiver off for a good long time and re-adding the channels right after start-up. No luck.

-Ray.


PS: Sorry, Ron. A newbie like me should know his place.

I don't get no respect, I tell ya -- No respect at all! ;)

Originally posted by dr_mal
The only people who might have overlapping DMA issues are people to the extreme north, who might overlap with Cheyenne (perhaps those of us in Greeley or Ft. Collins) or in the south who might overlap with the Springs (no further north than Castle Rock I'd imagine). For the vast majority of us, we won't have an issue. No need to contact D* or KCNC; we've got an automatic waiver. Same goes for Fox, since they're O&O.


Only some of Ft Collins (including myself :mad: ) have problems. The area that Cheyenne is claiming is pretty much east of I-25 and north of the fairgrounds. I'm right on the edge at 392 and I-25, but E* pulled my CBS nat feeds about a year ago and both the locals and high def waivers were rejected. I can't imagine that D* will be any different.

If this has been posted, I apologize (this thread grows rapidly!)...

this DirecTV press release (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040108/85448_1.html) indicates that any D* subscriber in an O&O area (most of us) that subscribes to the local channel package will receive CBS-HD free of charge and in time for the Super Bowl. I couldn't be more excited!

FYI:

Soundtrak (Denver West) has a bunch of open-box OTA/Sat receivers for sale. Great prices, like around $200. if anyone's interested!

Originally posted by RLE
Has anyone had problems with a Dish 6000's OTA receiver "hanging-up" while trying to tune DT KRMA or KBDI?

I can't comment on KRMA since I can't pick it up, but KBDI works fine for me. They have been inconsistent in the channel mapping department, sometimes mapping to 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, other times not mapping and showing up at 38-1, 32-2, 38-3. Whenever they make a change, the 6000 has a significant delay when switching to that channel while it figures out the new mapping info, apparently.

Mark

Originally posted by RLE
Has anyone had problems with a Dish 6000's OTA receiver "hanging-up" while trying to tune DT KRMA or KBDI?

Could it be something freaky like you having your guide list set to a Favorites list instead of "all channels" when it remaps the channel number and the channel number it tries to remap to doesnt happen to be included in that list?

Seems like I've observed something wierd like that happen somewhere along the line.

Just a thought.

For those of you who have an antenna pointed north, it looks like KGWN-HD out of Cheyenne is sending an HD signal for the Titans/Patriots game!! First HD signal I've seen from them.

I had trouble with KBDI and my 6000 the other night. It would lock the receiver up. After I went into the add digital channels menu it mapped to 12-1, 12-2, 12-3. I think I had 38 set in a favorites list so I think Dan is right about favorites doing wacky things!

Regarding the O&O waivers from D*, will Aurora automatically qualify to receive CBSHD and Fox Digital similar to Denver?

Thanks,
N