I called D* and got transferred to special projects twice and they say I have to have a waver from KCNC and the Colorado Springs channel. I am in zip code 80129. I cannot get any Colo Spgs channels and I don’t think KCNC needs a wavier. If anyone in this zip code is successful, let me know. Thanks

Ppasteur,

The mountain time zone is supposed to get the west Coast feed, not the East coast. That was announced with the initial press conference.

Jeff

Denver D* people:

It took 3 calls until I hit Aaron in 'Special Projects' who turned 81 on immediately. He was surprised that I'd been given the runaround all morning and he apologized. I'm in Cherry Creek North, 80206 zip. Good luck to all.

Originally posted by bobalbrecht
Denver D* people:

It took 3 calls until I hit Aaron in 'Special Projects' who turned 81 on immediately. He was surprised that I'd been given the runaround all morning and he apologized. I'm in Cherry Creek North, 80206 zip. Good luck to all.

Same zip code, but no luck with the csr roulette.

Yep, a quick call to D*, and the first person was clueless. No surprise there.

A transfer to Special Projects, and within 30 seconds, we were cookin'!

Well I have my 3rd waiver submitted, but none of them accidentally enabled my access in the meantime.
Can't they just postpone the SUper Bowl until Tuesday? :)

I've got to ask - Are you guys who are having trouble getting the CBS feeds talking to the 'Special Projects' department?

It was a 'no questions asked' type of deal for me.

Well, not quite 'no questions', they verified my ZIP code, asked if KCNC was the local CBS station, asked me to wait about 15 seconds, and the channel was up in about 10.

No mention of waivers.

Keep chipping away.

I had decided to wait until after the Super Bowl thinking there were so many people who would need it to view in HD. I get KCNC reliably, so didn't want to clog the phone lines with my request which is not critical.

Glad to hear many people are now having success.

Jeff

Ok, I'll try ONCE MORE AGAIN.

Am I supposed to actually ask for "Special Projects?"

Thanks

Yes, ask for special projects and don't give up. You aren't supposed to need any waivers. Many have gotten it without waivers from overlapping DMAs. Keep asking for someone who knows at least as much about the situation as you do. ;)

I talked to Special projects and they looked up my 80129 zip and said I needed two waivers, 1 from KCNC and 1 from Colo Spgs. I am in the highlands ranch area and last time I looked this was the "Denver" Market. They said it would take 30 days to get a wavier but they would submit it for me. Crazy. I tried again and was on hold for 35 minutes in Special projects and gave up.

If anyone successfully gets 81 in the 80129, 80128 or 80126 (3 highlands ranch zip codes) zip code please post how you did it.

FIRST TIME POSTER LONG TIME READER. JUST AN FYI I POINTED MY ANTENNA TOWARDS COLORADO SPRINGS AND I GOT THE CBS FEED ON CHANNEL 11.1. THOUGHT HD WAS OVER FOR ME WHEN I MOVED FORM LAKEWOOD TO ELBERT COUNTY 7 MONTHS AGO BUT I SEE I WAS WRONG.

SO I GUESS SUPER BOWL IN HI DEF IN ELBERT COUNTY

DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE IS A FORUM LIKE THIS FOR COLORADO SPRINGS????? JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT OTHER STATIONS ARE HD IN THE SPRINGS

HDINELBERT,

Hi and welcome to our thread. Yes, there is a CO Springs thread. They aren't super active, so you might have to search it out.

Just a polite note: Using all CAP's is considered 'Shouting'. So, unless you mean to... use upper and lower case letters. ;)

Thanks

Hey all. I just flew back from Europe and boy, are my arms tired. (Ba-Da Boom) ;) Reading through the thread, it doesn't sound like much has happened in the last couple of weeks. I am sooooo glad to be back. Watching TV in europe is annoying! More resolution (625 lines) but the 50Hz thing is flicker-city.

I went parusing some A/V stores while I was there and Sony now makes a 100Hz (frequency-doubled) monitor to eliminate the flicker. Very nice. But, no HD or high-end PJ's to be found. I'm sure they are around, but sure hard to find.

Originally posted by tkercher
If anyone successfully gets 81 in the 80129, 80128 or 80126 (3 highlands ranch zip codes) zip code please post how you did it.

I am in 80126 and got 81 turned on yesterday (you can read my post on the previous page to see a snippet of the conversation).

The person that turned it on was in Special Projects. She was still confused though about the whole process. I would try telling them that you don't need distant networks you just want to turn on CBS-HD since you live in one of the markets that is allowed to receive that channel only. The person I spoke to in Special Projects seem confused about CBS-HD and distant networks.

Before I had it turned on, I heard from one of the regular CSR's that they were in the process (yesterday) of going through the O&O markets and enabling CBS-HD for customers that had locals and HD programming. I don't know if that was really true but it might explain why some people are seeing it come on automatically at different times.

HDINELBERT you have a PM

Welcome aboard! :)

I still can't get 81 turned on, despite numerous calls to various CSR's and "special projects." Apparently, like many others, I need to get a waiver from two stations, including a wyoming cbs--this is ridiculous.

I'm wondering if the CSR's are now becoming more savvy re: handling our calls. With my phone calls, it seems as if the CSR's now uniformly are aware of the other stations claiming us in their broadcast areas, and claim that I can't get 81 without a waiver which can take up to 45 days.

I have to wonder if the majority of people who got 81 turned on had this done so early on Friday before Directv had it's act together--whether their accounts were turned on in error? Unfortunately, I did not have the good luck to be included in this error--I can't get 81.

If someone has "talking points" that are CURRENTLY working with the CSR's at Directv, please post them. If someone knows of a zip code that works, please post it. Incidently, it appears that this is the site that Directv uses to check our eligibility--perhaps we can figure out a zipcode that will work:'

http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp?cmd=EnterNew

Lastly, per my discussions with the folks at Directv, they will shortly be performing an audit of CBS HD service--hopefully those of you that are lucky enough to have it enabled will still have it on in a few days.

N123

80130 in Highlands Ranch ONLY lists KCNC for CBS stations.

I'm in 80126 (literally a few hundred yards away) and the eligibility site lists both KCNC and KGWN. 80130 is a new zip code for the area that was added last year. That might be why the eligibility is different (because it has not been updated). If you live in Highlands Ranch, you might try calling up and making sure that your zip code is correct on their records if it changed to 80130.

tkercher,
I live in Highlands Ranch, zip code 80129. I just checked channel 81 Friday and it was turned on. I did not even have to call D*. I am subscribing to the HD channels. I don't know if that makes a difference.
Good luck.

If 45 days is the waiver time, I need to submit later this week to get KCBS for the tourney starting March 19 (I'll be at Pepsi Center all day March 18 for 4 games). I'm not sure but there is a chance KCBS could carry a different feed of HD games than KCNC and if so I want the opportunity to switch to a different HD tournament game. Also, I prefer to let the dust settle on this D* pre Super Bow fiasco.

I'm getting a strong signal from KCNC today... thanks KCNC for my 1st SB in HD. You still get the majority of my viewership including evening news.

Don

Originally posted by donyoop

I'm getting a strong signal from KCNC today... thanks KCNC for my 1st SB in HD. You still get the majority of my viewership including evening news.

Don

I'm glad someone is getting a strong signal today. Just my luck...after three or more weeks of good strong signal on 35-1, today it's not. Anyone else up north having problems as of right now (1:20)?

I really wanted to watch on KCNC but I guess it'll have to be the LA feed from E*....

For anyone having trouble with KCNC, KGWN out of Cheyenne has the Pre-game in HD and it looks good! There's still plenty of time to twist the antenna! ;)

KCNC had no video problems yesterday, but had a couple of sound spikes and a dropout or two on the audio side.

Hope DIRECTV's feed looked good as well.
Jeff

Game looked good, used KCNC for most since signal was fine, except near end. Ds feed looked good also.

To me some shots were stellar, others so so... And all that smoke from half time really hurt the 3rd quarter images!!!! Or my eyes were tired!

KCNC?

I don't know. My HD reception was just------ok-------.

I had plenty of dropouts where I had to go to my regular feed and miss about 5-7 minutes of HD viewing. Pissed me off.

This after spending a great deal of time Friday, Saturday, and early Sunday taling with DirecTV people about the dish feed of CBS.

Never did get it and had to cope with my antenna feed.

Still pissed about all of this: Customer Reps, Expanded Service Reps, and Special Projects Reps. None of them got it done for me.

Pissed.

I have to get permission waiver from Cheyenne? What the hell do I care about Cheyenne? !!!

Pissed.

I emailed to Wyoming Friday at the first hint of needing a waiver. I heard back from them at 8:30 this morning.

I think they will be helpful and accomodating to those of us in the Denver market. They know we can't/don't get signals from 150 miles away. It is all mostly bureaucratic bs. And today I am very glad I do not have the person's job who gets all these waiver requests!

Originally posted by skyview
To me some shots were stellar, others so so... And all that smoke from half time really hurt the 3rd quarter images!!!! Or my eyes were tired! Yep, my wife and guests commented on the 3rd quarter smoke. And they made more use of the SD cameras than I expected them to. There were a couple of times where we had dropouts on the KCNC signal, which I'm almost positive were on their end; sudden pixelization and then we ended up with a green screen for a couple seconds.

Overall though it was a great show.

There were audio dropouts on the DirecTV HD feed from channel 81 as well. I doubt they originated at KCNC.

I thought the game looked very good overall, the wide angle shots were excellent, but as noted, too much use of SD cameras on sidelines and replays. ESPN-HD still does a better job in my opinion in most regards to picture quality, better slo-mo, less motion artifacts, more contrast. The CBS wide angle HD picture showed it's 1080i resolution advantage, but football has a lot of motion. Kudos to CBS for Dolby 5.1 audio, versus the excuse ESPN uses for whatever they call that 2.0 surround.

I was able to pick up CBS (some drop outs) to watch Superbowl game at channel 30 (T151 receiver shows 5-1), Is this from KCNC? I thought KCNC should be at channel 35, which I am not able to pick up. I have also picked up FOX at channel 21 sometimes and channel 32, is it possible that this channel 21 is Fort Collins' KFCT? but in all the cases, I pointed the antenna to south.

Thanks

Originally posted by whtevr77
I'm glad someone is getting a strong signal today. Just my luck...after three or more weeks of good strong signal on 35-1, today it's not. Anyone else up north having problems as of right now (1:20)?

I really wanted to watch on KCNC but I guess it'll have to be the LA feed from E*....

Whatevr77,
I'm in Longmont too and i've had HD for a few weeks now. I've received KCNC consistently until yesterday, and wouldn't you know it, I had a SB party planned. The signal strength dropped to where I had nothing. Luckily I was able to move my antenna from its indoor perch through a window and onto the roof and was able to pick up the SB with no problems. Except I missed Janets HD exposure. But yes, the signal was weaker Sun.

Originally posted by kurtW
I was able to pick up CBS (some drop outs) to watch Superbowl game at channel 30 (T151 receiver shows 5-1), Is this from KCNC? I thought KCNC should be at channel 35, which I am not able to pick up. I have also picked up FOX at channel 21 sometimes and channel 32, is it possible that this channel 21 is Fort Collins' KFCT? but in all the cases, I pointed the antenna to south.


Where do you live? Channel 30 (remapped to 5-1), is the CBS affilate in Cheyenne.

Well I got the game in HD from KCNC. I too noticed a few times when I got pixelization...and a short period at the end of the game with a green screen...no picture. All in all it was great, though I could sure tell when they switched to a non-HD camera.

I do have a question though. I have noticed all season on the CBS broadcasts that the mix has the announcers voices at a very low level. When I crank the volume up enough to hear them, the crowd noise and even the Referee's calls are real loud. When a commercial comes on it seems like it is 3 DB or so louder than the guys calling the game. I actually had people covering their ears and reaching for the remote to turn the audio down. Is this low level on the snnouncer's voices something that any of you have noticed. I don't think that there is anything wrong with my receiver. I Believe it is the mix. But I wanted to check.

The other thing...does anyone have a contact at CBS that I could write to about this. It takes some of the enjoyment out of watching.

Phil P.

Phil: The audio mix is typical for CBS HD games. I have noticed the same thing. It is OK until a commercial comes on and then... grab the remote.

This is a national feed issue but you could send an email to David Layne who is the KCNC engineering manager: dlayne@cbs.com.

BTW, I think the green screen (I saw one) was a national feed problem as well from reading the programming SB thread. All in all, CBS does a very good job.

I think the PQ from KCNC was slightly better than D* but not by much. Sound on D* feed was much lower than KCNC.

Originally posted by DP1
Where do you live? Channel 30 (remapped to 5-1), is the CBS affilate in Cheyenne.

DP1, I am living in Superior, very close to north side of ridge, and I am using RS 6-ft antenna pointing to Denver. Am I receiving the signals reflected from the ridge?

I have already heard back from Cheyenne. They will be faxing my waiver to DirecTV today, sending me hard copy in the mail.

They have been very, very responsive on this issue. I trust everyone else who fell through the crack will be treated equally well.

Originally posted by kurtW
DP1, I am living in Superior, very close to north side of ridge, and I am using RS 6-ft antenna pointing to Denver. Am I receiving the signals reflected from the ridge?

Could be unless your antenna is aimed backwards. ;)

But anyway yeah both those channels you're talking about are coming from up north.

ok, I thought I would wait until I had some news to report on my end about this.

Friday night 1-30-2004 Called DIRECTV, was xferred to the "HD dept"
Was told I need a waiver from KKTV & KGWN. I said "true I get a grade B signal from COS, but Cheyenne is 160 miles way! " was told "tough, get the waivers, and we will turn on the channel"

Monday 2-2-2004, called KGWN, they took down my info.
I emailed KCNC (getting all of the bases). Email reply was "you don't need a waiver from us, you need one from KKTV"

I emailed KKTV, got a waiver within an hour, and I thanked Tom Grassel.

I then called Jenny @ the 208 #. I advised her of my findings, she checked my account, KWGN waiver "granted" KCNC "not needed" KKTV waiver "granted" "Can you turn on my channel?" "Sure" Jenny said "hold-on" let me access your account" "Channel 81 is live" I thanked her. END STORY

They have been very, very responsive on this issue. I trust everyone else who fell through the crack will be treated equally well.


You mean the people (like me) in the Denver area who got it switched on without waivers, will we be treated fairly by Homeland Security? Lol...

Originally posted by DP1
Could be unless your antenna is aimed backwards. ;)

But anyway yeah both those channels you're talking about are coming from up north.

That's interesting, I am positive that I am pointing antenna correctly, I did use a ChannelMaster pre-amp, and can receive FOX, and WB2 if pointing to Golden, will probably try my north side window tonight, sadly though if I am not able to pick up signal from Denver.

sorry, it was a typo, sorry channel 2, it was from KGWN, i knew that when I typed it, but yes, I called Cheyenne, WY not our WB network here. But anyway, I am not at home to confirm that the channel is on or not. Jenny said it was, so I will check it out later.

I was very successful with this process, thanx for all of the info. especially the idaho contact #'s

I too had a few drop outs on KCNC yesterday, and my signal is consistently in the high 70's on a Sony HD100.

Did anyone else notice that the 5.1 audio was missing the .1 ? I noticed that my sub had shut off after a while because it wasn't getting a signal. I switched to some 5.1 audio on DirecTv and the sub came back on or if I changed to a prologic signal it would come on so I know it wasn't my sub.

Does anyone know if any retailer in the area is taking pre-orders for the HD DirecTivo?
After mucho persistance (I guess they got tired of me calling) DirecTV turned 81 on for me.
81 looked considerably worse than KCNC's OTA signal. I wonder if it was DirecTV or the LA affiliate that was doing the compression. I'm thinking it was DirecTV, because the O&O stations are mandated by corporate to pass a 19.3 mb/s signal (I've been told by KCNC). I watched a little SD via DirecTV yesterday and noticed alot more compression. Animal Planet was unwatchable. I've heard that they put the two CBS HD stations on 101.

well the colorado springs feed worked good for me but i also got the green
screen for a second. sound was good but also noticed the commercials were very loud. so for know i will live with my 1 HD signal from the springs

Regarding the low announcers, are you listening in 5.1? I just notch the center channel up 4 db and it sounds right. That way you don't have to crank the volume and burst your eardrums on commercials. I found myself doing that about half of the HD games this year on CBS.

Originally posted by Greg T
Does anyone know if any retailer in the area is taking pre-orders for the HD DirecTivo?
I don't know of any local retailers, but Value Electronics (a sponsor of this site) is offering preorders at a discount for AVS Forum members here: http://www.*********************/avstc.htm

Sure I am listening in "auto" detecting Dolby 5.1, no effects selected...all 6 lights lit up on my Denon 5700.

I guess the point is.... if everything else works right... and one has to crank the center by 4DB...something is wrong with the transmission..
or am I missing something here?

Should I have to re-calibrate my system just to listen to the CBS NFL...HD feed, and ONLY that feed?? If so...there is something wrong here!

You have confirmed my suspicion that they are screwing up...band aids don't fix a bleeding artery!!

Phil P.

Originally posted by Jeff Keene
Regarding the low announcers, are you listening in 5.1? I just notch the center channel up 4 db and it sounds right. That way you don't have to crank the volume and burst your eardrums on commercials. I found myself doing that about half of the HD games this year on CBS.

Same experience here with OTA CBS in central Denver. The center channel announcers were very low volume compared to crowd noise, and then the commercials were painfully loud. I, too, just cranked up the center channel to compensate. We wondered if CBS charged advertisers an additional premium for this painfully increased decibel level? Advertisements for upcoming movies seemed especially thunderous.

My .1 (subwoofer) worked throughout; mine doesn't turn off if inactive for some time. The graphics overlays were often accompanied by a thump or boom, which came off like some artificial demo of the 5.1 sound delivery. And why not assign the in-stadium P.A. to one rear channel, or otherwise try to create the in-stadium audio experience? The 5.1 channels were under utilized and poorly mixed.

CBS OTA had the brief green screen here, and pixelization noted briefly, during use of hand helds on the field at the end of the game. OTA signal was slightly better than Comcast during A/B checks during pre-game; both excellent really.

On balance: great video, disappointing -- make that annoying -- audio.

I guess the point is.... if everything else works right... and one has to crank the center by 4DB...something is wrong with the transmission..

I agree. I'm just offering an alternative to the volume crank. I admit that my pre/pro makes turning up and down the center very easy. I don't have to mess with the overall calibration. I can just turn up the center directly, and it affects only the mode I'm in (Dolby Digital in this case). Then I can turn it back down to "zero", without touching the main calibration menus. Other receivers I've had aren't like that and would be even more annoying.

So yes, the real solution is for CBS to "fix it". But they haven't all year.

Hmmm.. I've never felt compelled to mess with the center channel. Whether it was the SB or other weekly games.

I do agree of course that the commericals were a whole nother level though.

Just a word of note on the green screen everyone saw- that was indeed generated from the production truck, it was a mis-punch by the technical director. Having been in the business for quite some time I recognized it and had it confirmed by some people I knew working the show.

Dave M
WB2/KWGN
2-1,2-2

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Just a word of note on the green screen everyone saw- that was indeed generated from the production truck, it was a mis-punch by the technical director. Having been in the business for quite some time I recognized it and had it confirmed by some people I knew working the show.

Dave M
WB2/KWGN
2-1,2-2

Thanks for the insight Dave. It was probably caused by some sort of 'wardrobe malfunction' in the director's shirt.
:D

Cute, jm!

And if I thought Dave would have any insight as to when we might see KWGN's DT signal on Comcast I'd go ahead and ask him to offer up any thoughts.

But since he prolly doesnt, I wont. ;)

I watched the game from KCBS (LA on Dish). The Dish 5.1 audio feed from them was much better than KCNC. (Sorry KCNC!) KCNC's levels were not right. Surrounds too low in volume. KCBS had a much better balance.

But even their feed had the commercial breaks way too loud.

Regarding Comcast- We have actually met with them late last week but they could not provide us with a timeline as to when we would actually hit the cable system. As soon as we know I will pass the info along....

Dave M
WB2/KWGN
2-1,2-2

Did you Guys experienced constant (fraction-of-the-second-long) sound dropouts during the half-time show?

Jacek

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Regarding Comcast- We have actually met with them late last week but they could not provide us with a timeline as to when we would actually hit the cable system. As soon as we know I will pass the info along....



Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it.

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
As soon as we know I will pass the info along....

If you could post that information in the Denver Comcast thread as well, that would be most appreciated. Thanks for the effort.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293562

I received KCNC at about my normal level (4-6 bars on the T150). I'm pretty sure this is close to the lower end.

I saw quite a bit of macro-blocking with fast motion (intermittently, but every 2 to 3 minutes probably, for maybe a second or two).

I'm assuming this was because of my somewhat low signal. Did anyone else see this? I don't usually see this on CBS/NFL HD.

I also wish they would get the sound mix right, we had blaring commercials too.

Thanks, Greg

We watched KCNC-DT for the first 10 minutes of the game but after several dropouts due to my borderline signal, I went straight to D* KCBS HD on ch 81 and never looked back.

Yes the commercials volume was quite annoying -- had to hang on to the remote the whole time. And the "matrix"/"bullet-time" camera effect was beginning to annoy me too.

:) Yes! First on the page!

Originally posted by pookers
ok, I thought I would wait until I had some news to report on my end about this. Friday night 1-30-2004 Called DIRECTV, was xferred to the "HD dept" Was told I need a waiver from KKTV & KGWN. Monday 2-2-2004, called KGWN, they took down my info.I emailed KKTV, I thanked Tom Grassel. I then called Jenny @ the 208 #."Channel 81 is live" I thanked her. END STORY

<<<That was the best info on this whole HD--CBS thing.

I have put calls into both Colorado Springs, and Wy. This I'm really wanting to work. And I think it will.

Thanks

The D* web page you guys posted said I only needed to get the waiver from Cheyenne. Thanks to Dennis, Jeff, Ron etc. for the KGWN phone numbers and the fax and department number to call at D*. Spent about 5 minutes on the phone to KGWN in Cheyenne this morning and then another 2 or 3 with D* at the number posted by Jeff K. on page 348 to let them know the waiver fax was on its way. Came home tonight and 81 is on the air. Since I didn't need it for the SB I figured I would wait for the rush to die down, but figured it never hurts to have some more backups (especially for March maddness....I wonder if they will try to black out the out-of-market games??). All in all it only took me about 6 or 7 minutes on the phone to 'do the deed'. Thanks again to all of your for the help.

Yes, Finally!!!!!! 81 is on.

I'm happy, (she is happy she doesn't have to hear about it) and my faith in humankind is restored. {Until the next halftime.}

Worked for me, too. And this weekend I'm moving to Kremmling!

I need help to the question about options to receive the local HDTV.

I am living in Superior, have tried RS antenna with pre-amp in attic and front yard with help from this thread (really appreciated), got channels like KDVR, KWGN, KFCT(FOX, Fort Collins), and KGWN(CBS, Cheyenne) with some dropouts, I am thinking to get CM4248 or CM4228 with pre-amp 7775 plus rotator to setup the antenna on the roof, will cost more than $400 to get 'free' OTA (knowing may not able to receive all local channels).

Another option is to get local channel from Comcast cable, I have basic analog cable now, I remember several people mentioned here getting local HDTVs with basic cable, but I called Comcast today and told I need digital package in order to have local HDs, anyone can help me here?

Thanks
Kurt

Kurt,

There's some Comcast Cable HDTV info on the Denverdtv.info site (Link on bottom of my post) You should be able to order the "basic" or lifeline service for about $10./mo plus the converter box.

Also, there's a thread on AVS about Denver Comcast HDTV service. They might be of more help.

Originally posted by kurtW


Another option is to get local channel from Comcast cable, I have basic analog cable now, I remember several people mentioned here getting local HDTVs with basic cable, but I called Comcast today and told I need digital package in order to have local HDs, anyone can help me here?


Many CSR's will tell you you need a digital package but you dont. You need to just keep trying til you get one that understands that they can set it up where all you have is Basic cable (13.44 a month) plus the so called Analog HD pack (for 6.75 more) with includes HD converter box and remote.

For now that will include all the HD channels they have, even the premiums, as they're in free preview. Eventually you'd have to pay extra for all that if you wanted it but even then you should always continue to at least get the Locals that they offer in HD with that package alone.

I just went through this (including CSR roulette) a couple weeks ago so it should still be true.

Originally posted by kurtW
Another option is to get local channel from Comcast cable, I have basic analog cable now, I remember several people mentioned here getting local HDTVs with basic cable, but I called Comcast today and told I need digital package in order to have local HDs, anyone can help me here? There is actually FCC regulation to the effect that cable companies cannot charge a premium over their basic service to receive the DTV version of local OTA channels. They are allowed to charge for equipment rental (that's the $6.75 per month which someone else mentioned). Now that Comcast carries CBS and will soon have KWGN, their local coverage is looking equivalent to what you can get OTA, except for those few people who can get KMGH.

Originally posted by Jacek Karpala
Did you Guys experienced constant (fraction-of-the-second-long) sound dropouts during the half-time show?

Jacek

Jacek, yes I did experience those quick audio dropouts or whatever they were. Only in the halftime show. I figured it was just something with my reception, as I was in the high50's and low 60's for signal strength for most of the game. Also, when I switched to ch 8201 SD feed from DishNetwork, it went away. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one, but I'm curious that no one else but you mentioned it. What reciever are you using?

-Ray.

D* just lost all of the locals. Blue D* screen now saying they are having technical difficulties.

Ooops, it's back.....................

Did nobody else catch April Zesbaugh's report on HDTV on KOA this morning?

Incredibly inaccurate stuff. Take a listen: http://www.850koa.com/shows/cmn/hd-tv.html

quote:
____________________________________________________________
Did nobody else catch April Zesbaugh's report on HDTV on KOA this morning?

Incredibly inaccurate stuff. Take a listen:
____________________________________________________________

the news anchors are mortified because you can really see how scary
most of them look. 9 news the leader?????????????

Originally posted by zfmax
Incredibly inaccurate stuff.

I didn't catch it until this post, but I didn't think it was so bad - for a lot of the uninitiated out there, it may serve to motivate more people to look into it, get it, and then pressure the broadcasters to get more HD programming. Do those people really care if the pixel count comparison isn't accurate?

Yeah, 9News may not be the leader in everything HDTV, but they sure seem to be putting a lot of effort behind it (if not a lot of self-promotion). Unfortunately, they're often the victim of the limited HD content provided by NBC. Has anyone actually seen a sports program in HD on this network? They also occasionally forget to flip the switch, but I can live with that for a little while - it seems that they do respond to phone calls to fix this.

Originally posted by kurtW
...I am thinking to get CM4248 or CM4228 with pre-amp 7775 plus rotator to setup the antenna on the roof, will cost more than $400 to get 'free' OTA (knowing may not able to receive all local channels)....

Another option is to get local channel from Comcast cable...

Hi Kurt-

I would try for Comcast so you can experience HD for a minimal cost. If you are considering spending $400, it might behoove you to wait until D* releases HDTivo in April. It is around that time I expect E* and D* to compete for customers via their HD PVRs.

Btw, I have SD E* only.

Where are you in Superior? I am up in the Crestview section of Rock Creek and I highly doubt I will get anything OTA. I won't even try until the super-tower goes up... then again, I need to get an HDTV (this fall, I hope!). . On this thread someone closer to Indiana got many stations, but I forget who. Have you searched it?

You guys might want to check the Denver reception thread. There's lot of info on who's getting what where. It's posted on the Denver DTV Info site.

Denver Reception Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587&highlight=denver+data)

Also, KUSA has been promoing hard being the first to have the news in HD. They didn't say what date this would happen though. And also to have the nations first HD news helicopter camera.

Thank you very much for the help, the third CSR I talked to scheduled the installation this coming Saturday without asking any questions, just as santellavision's link(great place for Denver area HDTV info), I hope the quality of Comcast cable will be comparable to OTA.

Tweakophyte, my house is very close to Indiania and McCainslin, almost at the bottom of ridge, one of worst place for OTA, but from my experience, it is possible to get some more channels with quality antenna, preamp and most likely a rotator. I have basic cable because of the Comcast broadband(save $10), I may consider other options in future as you mentioned, hopefully we will have full powered DTV tower next year.

Thanks again

Kurt

Originally posted by santellavision
.......Also, KUSA has been promoing hard being the first to have the news in HD. They didn't say what date this would happen though. And also to have the nations first HD news helicopter camera.
The KOA story said they are planning on April. I especially enjoyed :rolleyes: the part where Roger Ogden commented that it "is better to be early than late" when applying new technologies. I just hope nobody tells the Denver viewers that the major markets in the rest of the country have been watching "FULL POWER HD" for several years now. The whole KOA story sounded like a PR clip for KUSA, but I suppose I am not really surprised by that. It seems to be their MO. Since they love so much being early implementors, I sure wish they could get someone to watch their d@mn broadcasts and flip the HD switch consistently when Leno comes on at night. It's about the only NBC I do watch and they screw it up at least once or twice a week. Maybe what Ogden means is that he wants to be the first one "talking about" new technologies rather than actually using it. I do believe that the amount of BS spouted about HD by all the stations in town over the last 5 years could fill the Grand Canyon, and still leave some left over to fertilize most of the nation's corn crop for several more years too. Of course that's just my $0.02. Some have called me a cynic. :cool:

I emailed Don Perez about Tuesday night's lack of hd programming on 9-1, suggesting that someone forgot to flip the switch. This is the reply I got back.

"Thank you for your note. Because of national/network primary election coverage we were not able to receive any HD programming during primetime last night. We should be in a more normal routine tonight. We are sorry for the inconvenience...thanks"

First I have heard of the election coverage taking HD out of the loop. Maybe so!

I liked that part where they said Denver is ahead of the rest of the country in terms of DTV adoption. Pardon me for just a second.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's better.

Election coverage or special events can cause an impact on HD. The reason is that the satellite bandwidth allocated to NBC gets used up when they have many separate uplink and downlink feeds as they would have during election coverage around the country. Having said that, I don't think CBS or even ABC has limited their HD broadcasts when they would be doing similar things.

Originally posted by gakon

Has anyone actually seen a sports program in HD on this network? They also occasionally forget to flip the switch, but I can live with that for a little while - it seems that they do respond to phone calls to fix this.

Feburary 14 and 15 the Nascar races from Daytona are supposed to be in HD. I sure hope they have a weekend "switch flipper".

If you want to find the true leaders in HD in the Denver area, one only has to look to the regulars on this thread!

Originally posted by dr_mal
I liked that part where they said Denver is ahead of the rest of the country............

I will point out he didn't say "which" country! I think he may have been referring to Afghanistan.
:rolleyes:

Funny...

Jetlag,
I like your signature---My mind is like a steel whatchamacallit!

that's funny!

But no, Denver is NOT ahead of the rest of the country.

Speaking of the NASCAR racing. I don't even like NASCAR. But in HiDef?!! Yea, I'll watch. It should be better than the movie SPEED.

Did they really say we are ahead of the rest of the country? They must be smokin' whatever Janet Jackson was. We don't even have ONE full-power DTV station! Hell, even Peoria has HDTV.

Kind of off subject here, but I got my Dish Network DVR 921 delivered and I installed it yesterday. The OTA Tuner in it NEEDS WORK, but the other features (minus the obvious software bugs) make it a pretty sweet system!

My Sony widescreen with internal DIGITAL tuner was able to lock into everything in town here (Except ABC, since we all know KMGH-DT is just a rumor anyway), and 1 station in Wyoming.

The DVR only tunes KUSA-DT without breakups. Guess I'll be getting into that that attic tonight to play with my antenna again! Brrrrrr!

As I was unable to catch the piece on HDTV that was broadcast on KOA, I am curious to know if there was any mention of KWGN/WB2 actually being on the air since November.

Anyone, anyone??

Dave M
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HDTV

Dave M,

This post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3325503#post3325503 has a link to a WMA stream of all 3 parts. No mention of KWGN :(

I have had a couple of people approach me at work and ask me if it's true that your station has the strongest hi-def signal in town, so that promotion seems to be working.

I was afraid of that.

Sometimes in this industry the only way to reach an audience is through self-promotion on air. From there is goes through a word of mouth process and eventually adds or detracts viewers. In our case it is essential to inform our viewers that we actually do exist in the HD realm and this is done through on-air promotion as well as billboards around town. We need to continue to inform the public so look for more HD promotion from WB2. Perhaps we can become the HD leader.

Dave M
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HDTV

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Perhaps we can become the HD leader.

Dave M
KWGN/WB2
2-1,2-2 HDTV You already are unless you count shamless self promotion...then you're not even in the same league as KUSA.

KWGN's DTV launch was the smoothest, IMHO. I went from watching 0 shows on channel 2 to 2 shows on 2-1. KCNC was the first commercial HD station, so they led in that regard. The transition was bumpy, but their engineers were always willing to hear from us and make improvements. Plus they gave us a couple of great station tours (hint, hint). KRMA worked with KCNC to bring us the Super Bowl in HD 3 years ago. True leadership there on both sides.

KWGN took the effort of actually caring what was going out on 2-1, even before 2-1 was on the air. That showed leadership.

KUSA will be the first local station in town to have news in HD. That's (finally) some HD leadership from them.

Now that most of the local channels (ABC and UPN excluded) are passing through network HD to us, the local content is going to be the bar that you'll all be judged by. I enjoyed the Parade Of Lights in HD. I look forward to local news in HD. Local sports in HD will be nice in the next year or two. I'm not saying this to criticize KWGN, but I don't see any sign of local content from them in the near future. I'm very happy with what they're doing with network HD -- like I said, they had the smoothest transition. No lip sync problems, the switch seems to be thrown every time I've checked, good communication here from management pre-HD and engineering post-HD. I just think for anyone to be proclaimed the local HD leader, they're going to have to have local HD as well. (BTW, KRMA has had local HD almost as long as they've been on the air, so props to them!)

It may not matter how well KUSA does on their own. NBC is still behind the other networks in reliably getting HD going.

After calling KUSA last night to ask them to flip the switch for ER and seeing nothing happened, I checked the HDTV programming forum.

It appears what is now being called "Nipplegate" caused NBC not to air ER because of the editing they did on last night's show. An old lady dieing while undergoing a medical procedure and showing one nipple would certainly not have raised too many eyebrows were it not for the Jackson deal.

HD at NBC still is clearly not a high priority.

It really never has been for NBC. Their biggest kudos for showing HD were usually produced and paid for by HDNET if I remember correctly ( Olympics, NBA )

Jeff

Dennis,
I called KUSA about ER last night also (pretty soon they are gonna start screening for our numbers, lol). NBC looks for any excuse not to pass HD. Tuesday it was the primary stuff. Last night it was nipplegate. Next week it'll be "the moon isn't aligned correctly to pass HD". Outside of the tonight show NBC doesn't look as good as the other networks anyway, and to top that, our leader is compressing our stream to 14.25 mb/s. The tonight show is softer than it was on my setup.
Pushing the soapbox under the bed now.

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but just heard that KUSA is going to start broadcasting there news in HD tomorrow. I will be watching. Can't wait to see what it will like.

Last night, we were watching the 9news at 10 and both my wife and I noticed that the color saturation and clarity were much better than they had been. Tonight, at 5PM, Mark Kobrick was talking about going to HD tomorrow and how that would make Adele look like she was older or younger (27) but at least different. Then Kobrick was talking mostly about LCD televisions, their cost and whether they were HD ready.

Anyway, they appear to be ready to go with HD on the news. I wonder if some of their field cameras (other than the helicopter) will be HD.

They may have been late to the party, but you have to give them credit for taking tbe local lead with their news. It will be fun to see how good it looks.

Now if they would just stop that multicasting business and let the 19.3 bandwidth prevail on ONE channel.

Never mind what HD does for Adele. What about Cathy Saban?

Sure looked like it tonight, too. Even the interviews with the Avs players during sports looked awfully good. Did I just see my first local newscast in HD?

Typical KUSA. Tell us they're starting HD news in April and then start in February :rolleyes: :D

No HD news as of this morning (at least in the 30 seconds that I checked)

Originally posted by whtevr77
Sure looked like it tonight, too. Even the interviews with the Avs players during sports looked awfully good. Did I just see my first local newscast in HD?

Well I didnt see the news last night but I'm pretty sure that if it was in HD you'd be telling us.. not asking us. ;)

Were the studio shots 16x9? That, if not the obvious resolution gain, would be the first tip off.

The 5pm newscast today is in HD!

Well, the studio shots are anyway. None of the graphics are generated for a 16x9 screen, and obviously none of the remote video is HD or 16x9. Whenever a 4x3 shot is used, they have blue sidebars (rather than gray - probably because it looks better with the overall color scheme).

I hope that at least the graphics and the local remotes go 16x9 in the future, but the studio shots look fantastic!

Edit - just noticed that they haven't yet figured out how to frame some of the side shots used for the individual anchors yet for HD - just saw the anchor on the right partially in the frame of Ward Lucas. :)

Well, its official. 9 News is in HD. The studio shots are widescreen and look great. Even the 4:3 shots seem to look clearer. The only problem I've noticed is when they are displaying a graphic above the anchors' shoulders on the right side. It seems as though the space which would otherwise be a sidebar is showing the view from a second camera.

All in all, I'd say its a decent first try.

Ward did a promo blurb just now about how they are the 2nd newscast in HD in the country - the first being in North Carolina. They are the first west of there. Dunno if that's true or not.

Originally posted by markdl
Ward did a promo blurb just now about how they are the 2nd newscast in HD in the country - the first being in North Carolina. They are the first west of there. Dunno if that's true or not.
They're wrong. There are two stations in Seattle (KOMO and KING) doing HD news. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164671)

Repeat after me:

"9News, leading the way in HDTV".


Don

Well, at the moment 9News is definitely leading the way with local HD news. I can't believe Walt DeHaven let KCNC get beat in this. Shame on him! KCNC should have been the first local station on the air with local HD news.

Off to write some e-mails:

To 9News: learn how to count. WRAL + KOMO + KING + KUSA = 4 stations doing local HD news now.
To CBS4: Let me know when your local news is in HD so I can switch back to you. Your primetime programming at 19.2mbps still beats KUSA hands-down.

For what it's worth, 9News is being sent at 19.0 Mbps, not the reduced datarate they've been sending on NBC programming lately.

All in all, a pretty good job. The expected framing problems for a first time out, but I've never seen a local newscast look better.

C'mon David and Pat! Get on the ball! I'd still rather be watching KCNC, but that isn't going to happen now until you're HD as well.

Just got a reply from Don Perez at KUSA. He hinted they'll hit another level of HD integration "soon to come" I look forward to it!

(this is going to hurt)
Way to go KUSA!

Similar reply back from Don here as well - "This is phase 1....there is more to come. trust me...."

I agree Dave...ouch, but way to go KUSA.

I only saw the first 10 minutes of the newscast. The studio shots looked great! Was the HD doppler radar actually in HD?

No.

"KUSA is leading............#$%^&&&*"
Sorry, just can't bring myself to say it. But they did take a step in a positive direction. Typical KUSA, they did exagerate their self promotion by claiming to be second in the nation. Why am I not surprised they made themselves sound better than they are. It was pretty common knowledge here in the AVS that Seattle had two stations on the air in HD for local news. Guess they STILL don't read the forum. BTW, I wonder how many times they will forget to 'throw the HD switch for the evening news or will they even have anyone at the station watching?



AVS Trivia question of the day:

Does Deb Carney have and HD Television, and if so, how many stations can she get in HD and which ones does she watch???????
Inquiring minds want to know!
:confused:

10pm newscast on KUSA was HD as well, and it looked like they got some of the quirks worked out with where the anchors sit when the side cameras are in operation.

delivery of wiengard UHF-HD antenna tomorrow, what channels can i expect in westminster? more specifically 112th & Federal. Hopefully at least KUSA!

Originally posted by JMartinko
AVS Trivia question of the day:

Does Deb Carney have and HD Television, and if so, how many stations can she get in HD and which ones does she watch???????
Inquiring minds want to know!
:confused:
deb@carneylaw.net

Originally posted by Milocka
delivery of wiengard UHF-HD antenna tomorrow, what channels can i expect in westminster? more specifically 112th & Federal. Hopefully at least KUSA!
If I had to pick only one local HD channel to receive, it'd still have to be KCNC for me. I just don't watch that much NBC primetime anymore. Also KCNC would get you the Superbowl in HD every third year, the Grammys in HD and 5.1, and CSI, which is generally considered to be the best-looking HD program in primetime.

Puleaze, lets not make this a KUSA love-fest. They are still self promoting to the hilt from what I'm reading here. No amount of HD would ever make me want to watch that disgusting bunch pat themselves on the back. How can anyone watch that crap without hurling your last meal?

Deosn't anyone here think that if they misrepresent themselves with self promotion that they can be equally as inaccurate/mis-leading with their news?

Originally posted by Milocka
delivery of wiengard UHF-HD antenna tomorrow, what channels can i expect in westminster? more specifically 112th & Federal. Hopefully at least KUSA!
I live at 112th and Sheridan. With my CM4228 mounted on the outside wall and pointed directly down town I get KWGN, KCNC, KRMA, KUSA & FOX. I do get a stronger signal for KWGN and FOX if I use my antenna in the attic as it is pointed to Lookout Mountain which is where there signals come from. As for the stations down town they range from a signal strength of 70 to 80% on my Dish 6000. I also have a CM7775 which helps some but not a lot. As for ABC forget it.

Puleaze, lets not make this a KUSA love-fest.

Thank you Geof for being a consistent voice of reason here. KCNC has nothing but praise from me for its support of HDTV over the last 25 months.

Don

...and KCNC did great again with the Grammys. HD and 5.1 the entire time, all HD-SD switches done properly and with none of the audio dropouts that hit the East Coast and West Coast feeds (and at least SLC here in the MTN time zone). Kudos KCNC!

...now if I could just get KMGH for the Academy Awards (when I used to live in Highlands Ranch at Quebec/C470 I could get them with rabbit ears- with occasional breakups- if lined it up absolutely exactly. Now at Broadway/C470 I can only get KWGN and KDVR OTA, the rest is Dish+Comcast.)

Just wanted to post a big thank you to KMGH for allowing me to watch the NHL all star game today in glorious Standard Definition. 480 spectacular lines of resolution. I'm blown away.

Oh, and the Grammys looked GREAT on KCNC.

KMGH did 'flip the switch' by the 3rd period when I turned it on. You must have given up on them! Didn't have any breakups.

KMGH was in HD on 17 ( 7-1 )for the All Star Game, but I contacted them when I couldn't receive The Lion King on Saturday night in HD.

Jeff

Ummm, yeah, flipping the switch on their 25W light bulb didn't help me (in Brighton) a bit. Still had 0 signal strength on 17-1.

Ken H has updated the AVS Programming sticky with KUSA's local HD news status.

Originally posted by dr_mal
Ken H has updated the AVS Programming sticky with KUSA's local HD news status.

Could this be the first recorded case of someone other than KUSA promoting KUSA????
:D

Is anyone having trouble RIGHT NOW with Denver local HD.

I am not getting a signal with 4-1 or 6-1 or 9-1 !!

This is thru the antenna.

Thoughts?

No signal at all.

rightslot,

Just checked, I have 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 7-1 7-2 , and 9-1 ( I don't get 32 with antenna pointed downtown ).

You might try a re-scan, sometimes that helps, check your connections and perhaps look to see if your antenna has moved.

Jeff

Originally posted by jeffden
rightslot,

Just checked, You might try a re-scan, sometimes that helps, check your connections and perhaps look to see if your antenna has moved.

Jeff

Ok... Thanks for the reply.

I'll try. Didn't have them last night or today.

I wondered if there was some signal problem from the stations themselves.

but thanks.

I had a clear signal from 4-1 and 9-1 this morning. mmmm....Kathy Sabine in HD.....I wonder why HD Doppler 9 was in SD, though?

It's gonna' be a while for them to replace all their weather/news ENG gear with HD equipment. At $90K a pop for cameras and $60K for each editing VTR, it may take a while.

Hmmmmmmm. I must be in bad favor of the gods.

I have lost all my ------ dash-numbered channels.

No over the air HD.

What the ????

Can the antennas be THIS sensitive?

Originally posted by rightslot
Hmmmmmmm. I must be in bad favor of the gods.

I have lost all my ------ dash-numbered channels.

No over the air HD.

What the ????

Can the antennas be THIS sensitive?

Not likely an antenna problem unless the wind has blown it to point the wrong direction. More likely it is a cable, a connector, or a receiver problem. You might try the re-scan, or maybe unplug your box and re-boot and re-scan things again. If that doesn't work and you still have no OTA I would start replacing cables or checking connectors. There are a lot of strange failure modes like a squirrel or some rodent chewing on a cable etc. Make sure the connector at the antenna hasn't blown loose or had a bird land on it and pull it apart. (I assume your antenna is outdoors).

Things were fine at my place this morning too. I watched a couple of minutes of the 9 news team in HD just before I left to get my kid (my day in the carpool) to school.

Originally posted by santellavision
It's gonna' be a while for them to replace all their weather/news ENG gear with HD equipment. At $90K a pop for cameras and $60K for each editing VTR, it may take a while.
I guess I forgot my smartalec smiley :)

While looking over the KUSA web page I noticed a list of HD shows available on NBC, one of them that is listed is Conan O"Brian. Is this a typo or do I need to start a fight with my wife so that I can sleep on the couch and watch Conan in HD?

http://www.9news.com/hdtv/default.asp

Originally posted by rightslot
I have lost all my ------ dash-numbered channels.
What the ???? I had the exact same thing happen to me once. Lost all DTV stations and all the analog were fine. But I new what it was. I added a right-angle "F" connector doo-higgey(sp?) on my cable. I've tried RS and Internet sources for these and the result is the same -- it seems that 1 out of 3 or 4 pieces is a pieces-of-crap! I tried another and I'm fine. Sure you weren't fiddling with your feed recently (not to get personal:) )?

Ummmph!

Back on. JMartinko suggested a rescan.

Worked.

Only thing is I did not do the rescsan. The Zenith 520 did it by itself.

Just all of a sudden, it went to CHECKING CHANNEL LIST...

and then---------boom! quick as it left, it came back.

all of them.

Hmmmmm.

I been nice TODAY, ate all my porridge, and cleaned my room.

but ever since this SuperBowl thing the HD gods have had it in for me.

Originally posted by RonAuger
....Sure you weren't fiddling with your feed recently (not to get personal:) )?

ROFLMAO
:D

Originally posted by MattF
While looking over the KUSA web page I noticed a list of HD shows available on NBC, one of them that is listed is Conan O"Brian. Is this a typo or do I need to start a fight with my wife so that I can sleep on the couch and watch Conan in HD?

http://www.9news.com/hdtv/default.asp
At one point, the launch of Conan in HD was rumoured to be imminent. KUSA probably gambled that by the time anyone read that page, he'd be up. The launch of Conan in HD has since been delayed (as has Letterman's HD retool) with no firm launch date.

The HD Programming forum here will be the first place you'll find out about when he finally does go HD.

What do you guys/gals??? think about AVs and Nuggets getting their own sports network?

I wish I could think they would do it in HDTV - but my guess is that it will delay the start of HDTV for them.

Reggie

I'm hoping he goes HD from the get go. Since he's starting from scratch, he won't have to convert his setup.

Ever the optimist,

-David

Originally posted by A4Short
What do you guys/gals??? think about AVs and Nuggets getting their own sports network?

I wish I could think they would do it in HDTV - but my guess is that it will delay the start of HDTV for them.

Reggie
I've got a call in to their PR guy. I'll let you know when he calls back.

Even if the network purchased HD cams/studio/hosts that will look good in HD, there is still the problem of bandwidth. Unless Stan gets himself an ATSC license, the likelihood of this station being HD is slim at best.

And who says that this upstart will be built from the ground up. They could lease space at the Comcast center off of Colorado and Dry Creek. Equipment could be rented and the start up costs would be minimal.

On the other hand, it really makes no long term financial sense to not purchase new equipment with HD in mind. Everything about Kroenke indicates he thinks more long term than short term.

He has to know that eventually he would need to go HD which would add a second large financial burden with acquiring and retooling toward HD. It would surprise me greatly if he went the cheap route and then spent money again in the fairly near future.

Just my thoughts.
Jeff

Jeff your point is valid, if you assume that HD equipment will continue to sell for its current pricing into the future. Fortunately for broadcasters and consumers, prices drop as economies of scale improve and as technological achievements occur. I would guess that one could purchase a Beta SP pack and lenses today, and in five years purchase an HD cam for the same costs of an HD cam today (I would love to hear what the realities of my statement are from somebody with broadcast experience).

If they can utilize a facility that offers the appropriate amenities (cams, mixing suite, up-link) for the first 5 years until you can determine whether this venture will be a success or failure, then invest in equipment, this might be to enticing too pass up.

Matt

Edit: I could see an HD opportunity for Kroenke sports if HDnet had the facilities available for him to use.

I could see an HD opportunity for Kroenke sports if HDnet had the facilities available for him to use.

Matt, I was thinking the same thing this afternoon when I heard the news on the radio. Could it be a joint venture with Colorado Studios / HDNet? I wonder how friendly Stan & Mark are? That could be a dynamic duo. You know that those guys over at Colorado Studios are always ready to build a new HD truck or two.

Don

You just never know now do you?

The nuggets game had a glitch toingh5t.

The guys at the studio said it was because they ad a new truck.

Who knows?

It could be a new Kroenke truck. After all, there is really no reason for him to go out and hire new crews to do the games. It should be interesting.

That‘s how it is when you have Big Money!! $$$

I saw this in my email and read the article and it talks about broadcast studio and HD.

From Pepsi Center E-Previews, the link is below
"An agreement has been reached with Crown Media for lease of a state-of-the-art broadcast/studio facility at its Greenwood Village location for both standard and high-definition telecasts, as well as for uplink facilities, transponder space and other administrative and technical aspects of building, launching and operating a regional sports network."
http://www.pepsicenter.com/Events/NewsDetails.asp?ID=323

I would be willing to pay up to $200/year to watch ALL the AVs games in HD. Keep in mind I have paid over $200 for one game, who hasn't? I know it's early to speculate, but if the HD part of it comes true, I will be one happy camper! :D

It will be interesting to see how the dust settles on the KSN (Kroenke Sports Network??). I would really think they will be doing a lot of HD. Comcast Sports in Philly, for example, has wired the Wachovia Center with HD cameras and does all Flyers and Sixers etc. home games in HD on their network. Same with Madison Square Garden. On the downside though, they distribute EXCLUSIVELY through fiber and cable and are NOT available anywhere on satellite. If KSN does do HD, I can't imagine D*, E* or any other sat service picking up the HD feeds, since they need to black out so many areas outside of Denver due to overlap with other teams and networks. I also doubt the sat folks can pick up the channel since they are already overloaded with sports channels from around the country as well as the Center Ice and NBA packages. I know besides Comcast in Philly that other sports stations like NESN. YES, MSG etc. also do HD games and distribute only SD on satellite.

My guess is that if KSN does indeed do HD you will HAVE to subscribe to cable to be able to see it, unless he buys the license to one of the existing OTA channels and puts it on OTA for free. I just don't see how it could work any other way. Looks like we will have another da*n subscription service to pay for now, just for one single channel. Funny how it works out that way. A subscription to cable for KSN, one to D* for Sunday Ticket and/or Center Ice, one two D* if you like movie channels, one to EVu or Star Choice for Canadian and out of market network HD, one to .......................................etc. etc. etc.
And of course, none of them will let you buy just a single channel. Great to see how the competition thing is working out in the business.

Does this madness ever end??????????????
:mad:

BTW, if your are in to investing, you might consider companies such as Extron that make switch boxes for HD video switching, since I can't imagine that any HDTV, even the new ones, have that many HD inputs.

I am not that concerned about the possibility of a cable only KSN HD offering. At this point I would be begging to subscribe for Avalanche HD! The few games I get in HD now have me drooling all over my 110" screen. :)

Originally posted by sunshinedawg
I am not that concerned about the possibility of a cable only KSN HD offering. At this point I would be begging to subscribe for Avalanche HD! The few games I get in HD now have me drooling all over my 110" screen. :)

Being a huge fan myself, I am sure I would end up subscribing as well, my point is that I am not happy about it. I do not want to have to buy cable just to get a single channel, and then get D* to get Sunday Ticket etc. $$$$$$$$$$$

If all the Avs home games were indeed in HD, I would be hard pressed to keep my tickets. On the other hand, the Detroit game last week, well "you just HAD to be there".

Is there a way D* could use the Denver spot beam to beam us KSN in HD without using up national bandwidth? I should ask this over in the programming forum...

Originally posted by dr_mal
Is there a way D* could use the Denver spot beam to beam us KSN in HD without using up national bandwidth? I should ask this over in the programming forum...

That may actually be a more practical thing for KSN to do as opposed to stations that service Boston, Philly, NYC etc. The reasons are the same as the reason that the Denver networks have been available on C-Band for about 20 years. The unique situation of the Rocky Mt. area where the mountains make it somewhat impractical to use fiber or microwave links to service the cable companies accross this state and into Wyoming and other areas justified the cost of the satellite transponders to provide the cableco's with the networks on satellite for many years. It might be that KSN could justify the cost of a C-Band transponder, or maybe a future D* or E* spot beam for distribution to the Rocky Mt. area and allow individual subscribers too. The problem is that they cover a much larger geographical service area than most for KSN, but the downside is that the subscriber base is not any larger than the Philly, NYC, Boston markets, and probably much less.

(As an aside, that is why I got in to C-Band years ago. I moved to Philly to work, but could not survive without my Broncos, Buffs etc. so I bought a C-Band dish and subscribed to the Denver channels from Philly. It worked great for all the time I lived there. Of course, it didn't hurt that I was also a satellite communications engineer and worked on many of the satellites I was watching at home. It has made for a fun hobby that I have now carried back to Colorado and enjoyed for years).

Originally posted by JMartinko
(As an aside, that is why I got in to C-Band years ago. I moved to Philly to work, but could not survive without my Broncos, Buffs etc. so I bought a C-Band dish and subscribed to the Denver channels from Philly. It worked great for all the time I lived there.

I always wondered about that C-Band thing.

Isn't it true that when they went to a commercial break, all you seen is a blue screen and you could hear people talking in the background? Is it true that you got the NETWORK FEED, and not the "people feed?"

Just wondering.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And as far as this Nugget stuff... I hope it BACKFIRES in Mr. K's face!

Just, and I mean just!, when the Nuggets are about to set the town on fire, FINNALLY get people back into the arena, he wants to jam it down our throats and make us come up with more $$$. If he goes the cable route, then us with a dish are f***ked up. If he goes Dish, then those with cable are ******!!


If he wants to continue a good Community feel, (yea, right!) then he would make the proper negotiations with local OTA networks and buy a channel.

Just money. Just money.

Originally posted by rightslot
I always wondered about that C-Band thing.

Isn't it true that when they went to a commercial break, all you seen is a blue screen and you could hear people talking in the background? Is it true that you got the NETWORK FEED, and not the "people feed?"

Just wondering.


That was never true for the Denver stations, the satellite feed was the same as the OTA feed and was/is used by most of the cableco's in small towns throughout Colorado, Wyoming, and parts of Utah and New Mexico in the past.

The feed's you refer to are often found as backhauls from remote sites for sports, specials, news feeds etc. There are not as many these days as 15 years ago since it is easier to use fiber and high speed phone lines too. Also, with all of the various digital formats around, you need a LOT more receivers now than years ago. I have an entire rack of receivers for different formats. It is a lot of fun as a hobby, but I wouldn't recommend it as a great alternative these days. The digital signals are much more involved and usually require initial knowledge of the Frequency and Symbol Rates in order to even find the signal. After that getting lock and finding the packet identifiers is also a challenge. Not very easy for the wife and kids to use for sure. Once you find the feeds though, they are often a lot of fun and yes quite often you get to hear the conversations of the announcers and control rooms guys. Like I said earlier though, the best years of C-Band are pretty much behind us these days as now most of the really good stuff is digitized and compressed often with multiple channels on the carrier. The equipment needed to receive a lot of it is WAAAY more expensive than the value of the material you get to watch. C-Band is still a great way to watch college sports these days, though I don't know how long that will last.

Originally posted by rightslot
Just, and I mean just!, when the Nuggets are about to set the town on fire, FINNALLY get people back into the arena, he wants to jam it down our throats and make us come up with more $$$. If he goes the cable route, then us with a dish are f***ked up. If he goes Dish, then those with cable are ******!![/B]

Unlike some of the sports networks which are owned by cable companies, Kroenke doesn't own a distribution system. Therefore, I doubt it will be exclusively on any one provider. With two major sports and few minor ones to broadcast he probably has enough clout to get it on all the providers' systems--in standard definition (just like Fox Sport Rocky Mtn does now).

To get the high definition feed (if there is one) will probably require cable. Satellite currently is not carrying any of the HD regional sports networks. Comcast seems to be taking HD seriously now and has the capacity (if they think it is worthwhile).

BTW, the info about leasing a studio cabable of HD was in the Rocky Mtn News today also:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2642505,00.html

Anyone have an email address handy for Kroenke sports? I would like to send them a nice message requesting HDTV.

I couldn't find any e-mail, but Kronke Sports' phone number is (303) 405-1100. I called yesterday asking about the potential for HD and was shuttled to the PR guy's voice mail. I haven't received a call back from him yet :(

Originally posted by rightslot

If he wants to continue a good Community feel, (yea, right!) then he would make the proper negotiations with local OTA networks and buy a channel.

Just money. Just money. [/B]

Or maybe he could swing a deal with KDEN-DT 29 (and/or KWHD-HD 46). As far as KDEN is concerned, they must have some PSIP issue now, as I get lock, but no signal. But when I did get a signal, it was worse than their analog signal. It couldn't use more than a few Mbs, so KSN could broadcast on 25-2 at 14.x Mbs and leave 5 or so for the shopping stuff on 25-1. It would seem that would at least mean SOMEBODY would watch 25/29!

I'm not sure it would make financial sense for KSN to buy a channel, but something like this may make more sense. Doesn't the ATSC allow for subscription services on the secondary channels? I don't know how they would do that, but I'd be more willing to pay for some h/w and subscription to decode a secondary channel than have to pay for cable just to get one channel...

I'm sure there are a slew of reasons this can't work, so maybe it would be better if you did just buy a local channel, Stan :)

Man!

It's slightly disturbing to hear that Comcast is getting serious about HD.
===========================================================

As a DirecTV subscriber I need hear the D* is getting serious about HD.

What? Now I'm going to have to change?
I'm certainly not going to have both.

Not only does it seem to be going to far but I have to look at $$.$$.

I'm hoping that the PRESSURE will make all involved compromise and make a good deal for the public at large.

I can hope can’t I?

Originally posted by rightslot

I can hope can’t I?
No, not when pay TV is involved.

Fear the worst, you will rarely be dissappointed!
:cool:

Last night I was concerned that KUSA didn't flip the switch on their HD content. After reading another thread on this forum, it turns out that the show wasn't in HDTV at all (I thought that no HDTV banner was suspicious).
I don't know about you all, but I wish that NBC would put in half the effort for HD that KUSA has (at least over the past year, yes KUSA I still remember 1998 to 2002). It is so sad when I transfer from HD Kathy to SD Katie!
If only KUSA were an ABC affiliate, what a wonderful world it would be.

-Matt

Originally posted by dr_mal
I couldn't find any e-mail, but Kronke Sports' phone number is (303) 405-1100. I called yesterday asking about the potential for HD and was shuttled to the PR guy's voice mail. I haven't received a call back from him yet :(

Thanks for the phone number. The Pepsi Center website contact info page only lists one email address: webmaster@pepsicenter.com

I'll try contact them tomorrow.

Originally posted by rightslot
If he goes the cable route, then us with a dish are f***ked up. If he goes Dish, then those with cable are ******!!
If he wants to continue a good Community feel, (yea, right!) then he would make the proper negotiations with local OTA networks and buy a channel.

Although there was no mention about an OTA channel, this was pretty obvious in the RMN article:

"Starting a new regional television network is not a slam dunk. Among the biggest obstacles: making carriage deals with cable and satellite companies. Without a carriage deal with Comcast Corp., for example, many fans with cable service in the Denver area wouldn't be able to watch the games.

Kroenke Sports said it already has begun talking with cable- and satellite-TV providers to air the channel and will "expand those discussions immediately."

Martin said the network will look to get on basic or expanded basic cable- and satellite-TV packages, which will give it a wide reach."

If you believe what they say, then neither the dish nor cable subscribers are f***ed.

Originally posted by gakon
...............
Martin said the network will look to get on basic or expanded basic cable- and satellite-TV packages, which will give it a wide reach."

If you believe what they say, then neither the dish nor cable subscribers are f***ed.
I don't think this will be an issue for SD channels. I am quite sure they will be able to negotiate carriage for cable, D*, E* and anyone else involved. I think the issue will be if they decide to do HD. That would be a major problem (I think) for satellite distribution due to bandwith availability. An HD channel would be a tough sell for satellite since they could only market it regionally, although I suppose you could make the same argument for the CBS feeds. I am sure there are more subscribers impacted by the CBS feed than would be eligible to receive the KSN feeds. Personally, I really want to see them announce they will televise all the Pepsi Center activities in HD, then I have the concern as to how I will be able to receive that HD channel without getting cable. Cable kind of goes against my nature.

This all reminds me of that commercial with the cable "pigs', except that in this case, I think the "pigs" are from cable, KSN, D*, E* and anyone else involved. There are many times when I really wish I wasn't a sports fan. It is starting to approach the point where it is more expensive than it is worth. (**Notice I still use the word 'almost', but I am starting to think about it)

Interesting perspective on the Sports network issue from Woody Paige in the Post this morning.

Denver Post Sports (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~111~1948269,00.html)

Originally posted by gakon
If you believe what they say

Ok gakon,

I guess we'll have to have faith. You are most likely right anyway.

$$$. They want to make $$$ so more exposure is better.

I'm sure you are right.

We'll wait and see.

End of discussion.

----------Now can we discuss more programming in HD?
:( :D ;) :rolleyes:

Originally posted by JMartinko
Interesting perspective on the Sports network issue from Woody Paige in the Post this morning.

Denver Post Sports (http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~111~1948269,00.html)
Interesting is right. I don't know where to start, but suffice it to say I disagree with about everything he has to say.

Maybe Woody Paige is afraid he will lose his guest spots and TV exposure. Doesn't he appear on FSN with his "babble" on a weekly basis? I know he does an ESPN show, but it seems to me he does a spot similar to Sam Adams, and Drew Litton.

OFF SUBJECT: I was in the attic playing with my omni-directional over the weekend to try to get a stronger KCNC signal for my E* DVR 921, and my Sony TV HD tuner started mapping another CBS affiliate on 5.1. I can't see the originating channel before it maps to 5.1, but does anyone know where this is broadcast from? I sure wish it was an ABC affiliate. KMGH should REALLY be ashamed.

5-1 is the CBS affiliate in Cheyenne. Re mapped from UHF channel 30.

Originally posted by DP1
5-1 is the CBS affiliate in Cheyenne. Re mapped from UHF channel 30.

Cool!

I was starting to think it was Grand Junction, but then thought that would be impossible.

Does Cheyenne have an ABC affiliate broadcasting HD, and what UHF/VHF channel? I might see if I can do some antenna tweeking if so.

Jack,

I wish! No ABC in HD from Cheyenne. I'm hopin' that affiliate would start soon. As I can get Channel 5 over 100 miles away from freakin' WY but I can't get KMGH 15 miles away from downtown Denver!

Has anyone noticed that KUSA news has gone HD? I noticed it Tuesday for the first time.

Bob:

Yes. Everybody (!) has already noticed and posted information. Read previous pages.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
Bob:

Yes. Everybody (!) has already noticed and posted information. Read previous pages.


:D :cool: Hang in there Bob! Yea, we know about the HD on KUSA, but that doesn’t mean you are a lame duck.

There IS something you know that no one else knows.

???

Originally posted by MattF
If only KUSA were an ABC affiliate, what a wonderful world it would be.


Actually, up until 1995, KUSA was an ABC affiliate

Actually, up until 1995, KUSA was an ABC affiliate

Holy cow, Batman...

Has it really been that long?

Jeez, I guess I ~AM~ getting old...



Wow, first one on the page!! :D

(sorry, couldn't help myself)

This is off topic but a got a big kick out of it...
Apparently KUSA is doing more than "leading the way in HD". They are also leading the way in "in your face" advertising. Has anyone else noticed the billboard in the KCNC employees parking lot on Lincoln street downtown directly across the street from CBS 4 studios? It is a giant ad for HD Doppler 9, the new KUSA weather tracking system. If you are wondering who is making the "sale at any cost" decision to lease this space to KUSA......Viacom. I wonder how Larry Green and the boys feel about this when they come to work everyday?

I've been in Florida for several days and have been listening to their local NPR station while driving. That station (WMFE) has been "advertising" that their PBS station broadcasts all nightly programs 1080i HD (I guess they must upconverting some programs). No patting themselves on the back yet I hear their promos about the wonders of high definition everyday. When I hear this I think of two things: Why can't KRMA be doing this, and why can't KUSA just do a promo without the self serving crap. In many ways Denver is still smalltime.:(

Originally posted by Geof
I've been in Florida for several days and have been listening to their local NPR station while driving. That station (WMFE) has been "advertising" that their PBS station broadcasts all nightly programs 1080i HD (I guess they must upconverting some programs). No patting themselves on the back yet I hear their promos about the wonders of high definition everyday. When I hear this I think of two things: Why can't KRMA be doing this, and why can't KUSA just do a promo without the self serving crap. In many ways Denver is still smalltime.:(
Why can't KRMA be doing what?
a) simulcasting their analog lineup during the evening? Personally I prefer what they are doing, even if the schedule does repeat a lot. I wouldn't be that excited to an upconvert of Jim Lehrer.
b) running promotional spots on a local NPR station?

Personally I would prefer to see all of KRMA's programming on their digital channel. YMMV.

WHEN WILL I SEE HDTV ON KMGH?

Hey everyone, after 5 years (well almost) There is a bit about them in the TECHNOLOGY SECTION:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/2831897/detail.html

check it out...

Originally posted by Geof
That station (WMFE) has been "advertising" that their PBS station broadcasts all nightly programs 1080i HD (I guess they must upconverting some programs). No patting themselves on the back yet I hear their promos about the wonders of high definition everyday. When I hear this I think of two things: Why can't KRMA be doing this, and why can't KUSA just do a promo without the self serving crap. In many ways Denver is still smalltime.:(

Though hard to tell for sure, I think what this means is that they run the "PBS HD channel" at night (which is a mixture of true HD and generally excellent widescreen SD). From what I understand, that's exactly what KRMA does also (though I can't pick them up to say for sure).

I still haven't figured out how PBS is going to work things out once analog is shut down. I hope KBDI and KRMA cooperate in a way to bring us all of the HD content as well as smartly using the multicast capability to bring us other PBS content without compromising the HD. Having two PBS outlets ought to make that possible. Since I can barely pick up Channel 6 analog, I also want some way to get that programming from a digital source.

Speaking of PBS multicasting, I haven't quite figured out why we need "PBS Kids" all night on KBDI 12-2. Whose children are up at 3 AM watching "Barney"?

Mark

After Reading the KMGH link I have a few thoughts about it.

Denver's 7 was the first station in town to broadcast in HDTV.

This is true, I remember getting up on top a 5 story building once a week off of Colorado BLVD to constantly adjust the antenna to get a picture.

the reception is limited to those whose antennas are within a line-of-sight of our antenna

Really? None of us could tell! What might have been nice of them to point out is that you need to live roughly S. of I-70 and West of I-25 to get a reliable signal (I use the term "reliable" loosely).

(Stations who jumped on the HDTV bandwagon years later learned to put their antenna on top of the taller buildings downtown)

I am sooooo glad we had the brain trust at KMGH to thank for other stations figuring out that a transmitter will reach a wider audience when you have fewer obstructions blocking it!! What a crock of _______!

several TV stations have recently won the approval to construct a 730-foot tower on Lookout Mountain. When that project is complete, sometime at the end of 2004, HDTV coverage of our station and all of the local stations should be widespread.

At the end of 2004? If the tower is finished in 2004 then the folks at Quizno's will win an Emmy for their new TV commercials that feature the Spong Monkeys!
When the tower does finally get built, I doubt they will run at anything near full power and will probably only turn the tower on when an HD show is available (like in Wichita).

If you are behind the curve, don't try to pat yourself on the back and attack those stations that have put more effort into HDTV than you!!

Originally posted by pookers
WHEN WILL I SEE HDTV ON KMGH?

Hey everyone, after 5 years (well almost) There is a bit about them in the TECHNOLOGY SECTION:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/technology/2831897/detail.html

check it out...

ROFLMAO
:D :D :D

"We are currently broadcasting in HDTV on Channel 17, but the reception is limited to those whose antennas are within a line-of-sight of our antenna -- which currently sits on top of our TV station in downtown Denver.
(Stations who jumped on the HDTV bandwagon years later learned to put their antenna on top of the taller buildings downtown, allowing them a wider but still limited reception.)"

Apparently the KMGH engineers had no way of knowing that placing their antenna on a taller building would increase the coverage area?? It makes me wonder why they were in the LCG since, at least at that time, they would have surmised that they could put the full power transmitter on their own building, and had no need to be on a mountain west of town for increased visibility.

"However, several TV stations have recently won the approval to construct a 730-foot tower on Lookout Mountain. When that project is complete, sometime at the end of 2004, ...."
Yeh, at the end of 2004! Sure, right about the same time KUSA stops using self serving adds to plug their station.

Well, If it makes you feel better. I get KMGH in Highlands Ranch with a very strong signal. Some shows over 1/2 hour seem to have audio breakups every 10-15 seconds. I call KMGH weekly and it doesn't seem to help. I talk to Rick and he say "thank you, I"ll pass it on, goodbye".I recorded NYPD on Tuesday (D-VHS). I watched it last night. I had to switch to the 17.2 feed for the first thirty minutes because of the audio problems on 17.1. Lion King same issue (last 30 minutes or so audio breakups every 15 sedconds), Bugs life same issue (last 30 minutes).
BTW, Sound Trek is taking pre orders for HDTIVO. Come on April! I wonder if it will record both streams like my D-VHS does?

Same problem here as well with me, Greg. KMGH shows break up all the time. That's why I'm try not to watch any other ones except for NYPD Blue and Alias. I went back and forth with Rick many, many times last year about this, and never could convince him that the problem is on their end, not mine.

I have posted this a while ago, but I have found an interesting phenomenon with KMGH on my RCA receiver.

When KMGH starts breaking up a bit, I find the signal strength for me has dropped a little below 40 which is the minimum I need for a stable picture. If I change the channel and wait a few seconds on the other channel and then go back, frequently the signal goes back up to as much as 46 which is always stable.

Of course, this process drives the family nuts if we are watching a show (they, of course, would rather watch the SD version then), but I have found it works much of the time.

Before we try to watch anything on KMGH, I will check the signal and do the channel switch a few times until the signal (hopefully) goes up to 46. I ususally do this channel changing routine while watching the signal strength meter superimposed on the screen. I have no explanation as to why this works. And when watching a long movie or football game, the signal typically gets worse after a time and I need to do the channel changing deal again. Go figure!

The signal gets lower over time because the little prairie dog gets tired running on the wheel. I have no explanation of why it gets better when you change channels -- perhaps the prairie dog gets feedback from Neilson that less viewers are watching (they can count viewers on two hands, remember):D

Yeah DennisMilehi, I had a DTC-100 that had the audio problems that you describe. It got pretty old, but it was different than what I'm getting now.
I got lucky one night (I like the sound of that, lol) by getting master control at KMGH on the phone. I told the guy about the problem, he said that they know it's a problem. They can't figure it out. He told me he would switch to the tape for the remainder of the show. I knew he switched because the sound went from Dolby Digital to Prologic on my receiver. About 20 minutes later it switched back to DD and the problem seemed to had been fixed. If I remember correctly they use to have audio sync problems, and would have to reboot their server to get it back synced. Maybe that was that night's solution as well.
The bad part is, they don't seem to care. I get a sort of; whatever! that's nice. Tell it to the hand. No one watches it. it costs too much. it generates no revenue. You get our HD signal?

I can honestly say that I have never had any sound problems on KMGH here in Boulder. It is continuously inaudible.
:D
(Hold off on the flames here, you all KNOW somebody had to say it!)

Yeah on the DD 5.1 sound. When they don't try to pass that signal and just do Prologic stereo, there are far fewer sound problems. I would rather have them totally forget the 5.1 and go for a more reliable signal, but, as you said, they don't really care. The breakups I get and try to resolve are more video pixellating than audio drops. My channel changing deal just helps the overall signal strength, not specifically audio.

Who are they kidding with the tower completion at end of 2004? reminiscent of the letter saying approval was imminent.

Jeff

Anybody hear about KRMA's construction on Mt Morrision? From I-70, it doesn't look like they've done anything yet.

Hold off on the flames here, you all KNOW somebody had to say it!)

Don't worry about that. You are just getting me started.

Isn't the Academy Awards in HD in two weeks? How about the Stanley Cup playoffs/finals in a few months? How about Qualcomm Stadium the end of January in 2003? We should all sit down and shut up because they were first. Sorry KMGH, we don't have Cindy to blame anymore; it seems more obvious all the time it wasn't Cindy's decision.

Transition from negative to positive.

I completed the waiver process today. Last weekend I sent waiver requests to KKTV & KGWN. Monday I received KKTV waiver via fax from Tom. Monday, KGWN processes waiver and mails it Tuesday. Thursday I receive waiver from KGWN. Friday I fax both waivers to D*. Friday channel 81 appears. No phone calls, no waiting on hold, no talking to clueless CSR's telling me they have Starz HD.

Kudos to Tom Grassel and Leanne for their waiver processing. It was painless. Thanks also to Avsforum members for posting waiver information.

Don

Funny that KMGH doesn't mention that they are only broadcasting DTV on Channel 17 at 17.5% the power level of their chief competition KUSA (1.91-kw vs 10.9-kw). I think if they bumped their power up 6-fold, I would actually be able to lock their signal here in Arvada. Currently I see their signal, sometimes at a steady 49%, but I can never get a lock.

On a different topic, did KWGN change anything w/ their DTV broadcast configuration around the 2nd of February? On 2/1/04, I got zero for a signal strength on Channel 34. The next day, I locked the signal at 74%. Since that time it has varied widely. I can actually get a lock about half the time, but when I can't, I still see them at 40 to 56%. Prior to 2/2/04, it was like they didn't exist. No signal at all. Just wondering?

I would like to thank KMGH for missing another Avs HD game! :mad:

Originally posted by sunshinedawg
I would like to thank KMGH for missing another Avs HD game! :mad:
It wasn't in HD, it was only in SD anyway. You didn't miss anything, although I agree it would have been fun to watch the Avs kick the Wings in HD.

I saw those ABCHD ads all over the side boards so I figured it was in HD. You'd think the best way to advertise HD would be to actually show the game in HD. Even so, I never feel bad taking a shot at ABC!

Test one! Test one! Is this thing on???

<bump>

I found this thread on PAGE 4, come on people, this is the "infamous Denver Thread".

This thread is so long that it's hard to find useful information.. Anyone know if there is an expected date as to when the new tower will be completed and on the air?

Anytime between Christmas this year and summer of next year is the current guesstimate. A lot of it hinges on how the city of Golden lawsuit shakes out.

Coors,

Check out the denverdtv.info website. There's LOT'S of useful info!

Hey gurus, newbie to the HDTV world here and hoping you can help me out with all your experience and expertise. I have a new TV and D* HDTV receiver on the way, and I'm trying to sort out the best way to maximize viewing options.

I live in Westminster, in the valley between 104th & 112th (near Legacy Ridge Golf Course,) and don't have LOS to downtown or Lookout thanks to a ridge just to my South. Antennaweb.org says it's 15.7 miles @ 215 deg to Lookout and 10.4 miles @ 159 deg to Republic. I don't have the option to mount an external antenna on the roof or in an attic, since I live on the first level of a condo with upstairs neighbors.

If I purchase a Silver Sensor (which seems to be the best option for an indoor UHF antenna) will I be able to pick up any of the locals OTA? I do have large South-facing windows (8 feet off the ground) that I can place the antenna in and aim for either Rebublic, Lookout, or somewhere in-between. Has anyone had luck with the SS in a similar scenario? Also, how is Best Buy's return policy if I purchase it and it doesn't work?

If I'm chasing the impossible I guess I have no choice but to sign up for Comcast HD. I'm just trying to avoid the extra device and expense, and that option still leaves me without KMGH and needing to pull in KWGN OTA somehow for the time being.

Thanks in advance - these forums are GREAT!

Why not a nice outdoor roof antenna? That would give you the best shot all the most DTV stations.

Originally posted by santellavision
Why not a nice outdoor roof antenna? That would give you the best shot all the most DTV stations.

Unfortunately I'm in a condo and none of the roof area would be considered "exclusive use" under the FCC rules. The only potential way I could put an antenna outside would be to mount it on a tripod on the patio (like my dish) or get one of those clip-on dish units (which are pretty much useless from what I've read.)

You could try a Channelmaster 3021. It's a flat wire UHF antenna. Might mount flat on your balcony face. Works great! Just a thought if the SS doesn't cut it. I have and extra one you could try if you want.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/uhf.htm

That should work fine, bikenski! I had the RS double bow tie modded for F-connector to coax sitting on top of the armoire. No, I didn't get 7-1, but everything else comes in strong. I have since moved it to the attic for WAF, but the Channel Master should do even better!

In Wheat Ridge, I'm about as far from Republic Plaza as you are. Best of luck and welcome to the most informative site ever!

Originally posted by CEB II
Funny that KMGH doesn't mention that they are only broadcasting DTV on Channel 17 at 17.5% the power level of their chief competition KUSA (1.91-kw vs 10.9-kw). I think if they bumped their power up 6-fold, I would actually be able to lock their signal here in Arvada.


I think both use 1kW of power, but since KUSA is on top of a tall building they get a higher ERP.

Where did you find 1.91kW ERP? The only number I have seen is 3kW ERP, but that was not from a trusted source.

Originally posted by ADent
I think both use 1kW of power, but since KUSA is on top of a tall building they get a higher ERP.

Where did you find 1.91kW ERP? The only number I have seen is 3kW ERP, but that was not from a trusted source. FYI, Height isn't what gives higher ERP (ERP is not dependent upon height - but a station with the higher antenna will achieve greater coverage area than a station with the same ERP but with a lower antenna HAAT).

Originally posted by A Dent

I think both use 1kW of power, but since KUSA is on top of a tall building they get a higher ERP.

Where did you find 1.91kW ERP? The only number I have seen is 3kW ERP, but that was not from a trusted source.

I got the data from the following site. They seem to keep updated better than other sources and their level of detail is impressive. I don't have any way to verify the technical details, but some of the obscure administrative items (e.g. , applications for transfer of licencing for given channel number in a given state) have proved correct.
http://home.earthlink.net/~w9wi/tvdb/index.htm[I]

Just click on the channel number of interest and scroll down to find the station of interest on that channel. Note that there are multiple listings for many stations as they may have temporary or experimental licencing as well as a future full power license.

Originally posted by bikenski

If I purchase a Silver Sensor (which seems to be the best option for an indoor UHF antenna) will I be able to pick up any of the locals OTA? I do have large South-facing windows (8 feet off the ground) that I can place the antenna in and aim for either Rebublic, Lookout, or somewhere in-between. Has anyone had luck with the SS in a similar scenario? Also, how is Best Buy's return policy if I purchase it and it doesn't work?



Hey bikenski,

As you can see I live in Broomfield. (136th & Lowell) Picked up the Silver Sensor mostly to get WB2. It works fine, I can pickup 4, 9, WB, FOX and 12 with minor adjustments. What's nice about the Silver Sensor is if it does not work for you it's real easy to put back in the box and return it. ;)

Have they stopped putting in building-wide shared antennas in condominiums & apartment buildings?

In the "old days" you could just connect to the building antenna. Of course it might not work for the downtown low-power DTV stations.

The last complex I lived in (built in 1969) had the antenna terminals in each unit, but the antenna itself was long gone, either a victim of wind or not being reinstalled after a roof replacement. I tried hooking up to the terminals when I moved in, but the resulting signal was worse than what I could get with cheap rabbit ears.

For my new place... based on the reports of limited success here using internal antennas I went out and bought the Silver Sensor. I won't be able to test it in the Digital realm until my equipment arrives, but it seems to do a decent job of pulling in Analog UHF channels. I'm fairly confident I'll be able to pull in the higher power/elevation signals from WB and Fox; but CBS, NBC, and PBS from Republic may be tough. And of course I won't be watching ABC until we're ice skating with the devil. :D

I'll report back the level of success once I know.

Originally posted by bikenski
I'm fairly confident I'll be able to pull in the higher power/elevation signals from WB and Fox; but CBS, NBC, and PBS from Republic may be tough. And of course I won't be watching ABC until we're ice skating with the devil. :D

I'll report back the level of success once I know.

I received most of my new toys today, and finally got my first glimpses of HD at home! I watched some awful sitcom on WB, ER, 9News@10, and Tonight Show.

As expected, WB 2/34 and Fox 31/32 tuned in easily. PBS 12/38 also comes in well. The only way I could get NBC 9/16 was by putting the Silver Sensor outside. With the antenna outside I could also see the CBS 4/35 and PBS 6/18 signals, but not well enough to get a lock. I didn't attempt to tune in any of the "infomercial" stations since I'm not interested.

I guess the next step is to try a UHF Preamp (Channel Master 7775 seems to get good reviews) to see if that will boost the downtown levels enough to view them. Does anyone know of a local retailer that carries them? If it doesn't work out it's a lot easier to do a local return than to arrange for an RMA with an Internet merchant and ship it back.

Originally posted by Greg T
Well, If it makes you feel better. I get KMGH in Highlands Ranch with a very strong signal. Some shows over 1/2 hour seem to have audio breakups every 10-15 seconds. I call KMGH weekly and it doesn't seem to help. I talk to Rick and he say "thank you, I"ll pass it on, goodbye".I recorded NYPD on Tuesday (D-VHS). I watched it last night. I had to switch to the 17.2 feed for the first thirty minutes because of the audio problems on 17.1. Lion King same issue (last 30 minutes or so audio breakups every 15 sedconds), Bugs life same issue (last 30 minutes).

You don't say what your equipment is.

I have the Samsung SIR-T165 and JVC 30K D-VHS deck. I received a tape from another person that has what I am after on the 2nd stream, but have not found a way to get the tuner to play the 2nd stream.

Any tips would be helpful.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
Election coverage or special events can cause an impact on HD. The reason is that the satellite bandwidth allocated to NBC gets used up when they have many separate uplink and downlink feeds as they would have during election coverage around the country. Having said that, I don't think CBS or even ABC has limited their HD broadcasts when they would be doing similar things.

Excuse me, but that can't be true. NBC has tons of satellite capacity. There is no way they are going to drop the HD 8PSK Ku transponder and use it for other crap. Especially since they have three Ku transponders, each with three DVB 4:2:2 channels, for net feeds. That is NINE channels in which to feed SDTV stuff to the affiliates. On top of that, they have 23 digital DVB 4:2:0 channels for use for up and down news feeds. Removing their 8PSK 4:2:2 HD transponder is not something I would expect them to do.

Something else must have been going on that night at your local NBC affiliate for them not to pass the network HD on to the viewers. I don't believe that NBC has an HD Mountain feed, which means Denver has to record the HD feed and play it back. Since I don't have an 8PSK receiver, I don't know how they've split up the transponder. I doubt that it matters, since I seriousluy doubt that the HD transponder was pulled for other use. I wasn't watching NBC that night, so I don't know.

I'm sure that someone over in the programming area of the forum can answer the question as to what was going on. I still maintain that NBC has the satellite capacity and does not need to steal their HD transponder.

Originally posted by bikenski
I guess the next step is to try a UHF Preamp (Channel Master 7775 seems to get good reviews) to see if that will boost the downtown levels enough to view them.
IIRC the Silver Sensor is already amplified so adding a pre-amp is unlikely to do you any good. I would recommend trying an outdoor UHF bow-tie antenna - the CM 3021 is fairly unobtrusive.

I don't want all of you Denverites (is that a word :-) to feel left out in having stations that have PSIP problems. While the stations here in Madison, WI, don't even come close to what has occurred in Denver, I received an interesting e-mail from the engineer of the local ABC affiliate with regards to a problem whereby the clock gets reset to the epoch:

Like so many parts of technology now, we are at the mercy of the guy that wrote the imbedded operating software. If he/she didn't have a good handle on the importance of precision time keeping, we all reap the consequences. We have a GPS based SMPTE time distribution system here that feeds lots of equipment. Our Harris/Lucent MPEG encoder that generates the ATSC television signal doesn't have an input for it. The encoder does have the capability of synchronizing time with an NTP timeserver over the Internet. The problem there is that anywhere from maybe 6 hrs to a day after that function is turned on, the card that deals with PSIP in the encoder crashes. When that happens, channel 27-1 disappears from your set and instead you can find 26-1. The manufacturer knows about that problem but it hasn't been a priority to get it fixed. The static PSIP control program we are using can also set the time on the encoder. It is very operator dependent and there doesn't seem to be any way to automate running it. I talked to the manufacturer yesterday. They sent me a new version of the control program. I installed it today but it doesn't appear to be any different from the old one, so its not likely that will help. We will be changing over to the full PSIP system that will then contain the Electronic Program Guide. When that happens, clock time will then be dealt with in a proper manner. I don' know when that will happen.

I wrote back and mentioned the problems with PSIP configuration in Denver and sent him to this thread.

howdy all


could we PLEASE start a new thread. as a new comer it is near impossible to read and sift through all of this thread (241 pages here on this one) when what i really want to talk/learn about is ..... "Denver HDTV OTA"

and how do i get ABC.....

thanks and if there is a good reason why we cant have a "Denver OTA HDTV" thread please let me know.

chuck

Well what kind of "discussion" are you looking for? If you have a question, just ask. It's not that complicated. All the stations are on low power. As the Networks go, 2 come from Lookout (Fox, WB), and ABC, CBS, NBC and PBS come from downtown. The latter 3 of about equal power that most folks in the metro area can get. ABC is of substantially lower power still. Unlike the others, ABC cannot generally be had unless you live south or west of downtown. Even then you might have to go to extremes to even have a shot. Like a bigass roof mount antenna.

Beyond that, theres a couple independent religious/shopping type channels and an extra PBS station (KBDI), all also low power coming out of places like Squaw mt, Parker and Longmont or something.

"what kind of "discussion""

i guess as a new guy i dont really want to ask the same question that yall have allredy discussed in detail. thats kind of why a thread that deals just with Denver HD OTA seems like a good idea to me....

i think back on page 157 (jk) i found why i dont get ABC...

chuck

Chuck,

I don't think we really want a new thread. We're kinda' proud of our 362 pages (plus the other two previous parts)

Like Dan mentioned, just ask and you'll get any info you need. Also please check out the Denver dtv.info thread (link at bottom of my post) It has lots of useful info!

Originally posted by svochuck
howdy all


could we PLEASE start a new thread. as a new comer it is near impossible to read and sift through all of this thread (241 pages here on this one) when what i really want to talk/learn about is ..... "Denver HDTV OTA"

and how do i get ABC.....

thanks and if there is a good reason why we cant have a "Denver OTA HDTV" thread please let me know.

chuck This is the Denver OTA HDT thread.

I see no point in starting a new thread. Questions can be posted here as easily as in a new thread so what is the point? There is a lot of info in this thread for those who wish to search. Starting a new thread accomplishes nothing except to dilute the information between multiple threads.

I do not mean any disrespect but frankly I am insulted by your starting a new thread and stating "This is the place for discussing all issues related to OTA HD in the denver, Colorado area" when we've been discussing that very topic in this thread for several years.

oh well ... i tried.

chuck

Hey Chuck,

Sorta like going to Washington as a first term congressman huh?!

At least you don't have to go back home to the folks in Iowa and explain how you didn't get it done.

Originally posted by svochuck
and how do i get ABC.....
ABC is broadcasting?!?! ;)

Originally posted by svochuck
oh well ... i tried.

chuck
Hey Chuck,
We are all really proud of this OTA thread already. You must realize we easily have the longest thread in the forum and I might add, with the least results. :(

Imagine how great (and busy) this thread will be if we ever get some stations up to talk about! All these posts and we still only have one near full power OTA station in the Denver area, and not a single major HD network is near full power. We ARE the record for futilty. (Some of us cheer here, some of us cry, some of us (me) just get angry and frustrated, take your pick).

As for repeat questions, no question is unwelcome here and if it is two repetitive one of us will always be happy to PM you with the answers offline. For starters check out Ernie's page for Denver DTV at here (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm) . If you can't find what you need, just post, we're a friendly bunch (Well, except for a few guys, but I won't mention any names in the tradition of those attacking Gary Barnett and the CU football team these days). :D
So in the long tradition of those new to the thread, ask away.

Thanks to Santellavision I’m getting closer to receiving the major digital stations (with the exception of KMGH of course.) Yesterday I experimented with the CM 3021 he was kind enough to let me try and found the following:

- Attempted to diplex the signal in on the existing RG6 DirecTV run and was unable to pull in anything from Republic, regardless of antenna orientation (whoever said a set of diplexers shouldn’t be a dealbreaker obviously doesn’t live in an area with transmitters as weak as ours!)

- Ran a direct RG59 line out to the patio (50 foot cable) and could only get a very choppy KUSA signal when pointed directly at Republic

- Ran a direct RG6 line out to the patio (50 foot cable) and was able to pull in KUSA and KCNC from Republic. They’re watchable but both have occasional breakups. Still no lock on KRMA for some reason. KWGN and KDVR are strong enough to come in without rotation, but I have to rotate to get KBDI.

I bought a tripod and mast, sacrificed some weatherstripping on the door, and mounted the CM 3021 next to my dish on the patio. (Neighbors are going to love me!) Tomorrow I’m going to attempt to locate a CM 7775 preamp (backordered almost everywhere) but I’ll take a Winegard AP4800 if I can’t locate the CM. Hopefully the extra kick will allow me to get KRMA and clear up the breakups on KUSA and KCNC (fingers crossed!)

bikenski - don't sweat the neighbors (or your HOA, if applicable) - see the link in my sig...

Originally posted by Scooper
bikenski - don't sweat the neighbors (or your HOA, if applicable) - see the link in my sig...

Not that I have this problem, but good info to know. Site has been book marked, thx.

Hi. My first post, so hopefully I get it right. I've searched throught the thread for all info related to the HRCA and it has generated some confusion on my part. I'm in the process of purchasing my first HDTV monitor and I obviously have concerns about the installation of an outside antenna.

I saw that a few have outside antennas, but the majority of sweem to have attic antennas. I live near ThunderRidge high school and would like to put up an outside antenna. Unfortunately I have a neighbor that is a foaming-at-the-mouth HCRA fanatic and turns in anyone that does anything that appears to be in violation of the "rules".

I would just like to know if I can expect trouble if I put up an outside antenna or have they given up trying to enforce this issue. When I here 8 years ago, I had to argue with them about putting up my DirecTV dish.

Many thanks.

Denverjim,

I live very close to ThunderRidge in highlands Ranch and I use an attic antenna (the 80" radio shack) and I get all the channels (including ABC most of the time). From my roof I do have direct line of sight to downtown and to lookout mountain. I have been able to get some friends in the area hooked up to most channels in this same general area with an attic antenna. But it is more of an art than a science due to location and antenna positioning (ie a radio and a friend sitting in front the of the TV looking at signal strenght as the antenna is moved). Pointing the antenna an inch one way or another makes a big different with the low signals.

My recommendation is try the attic first (hopefully you have a cable already run from the Attic to your Home theater). I try to avoid the HRCA anytime I can.

tkercher

denverjim - read my sig - you can basically tell them to go pound sand about any antenna to receive LOCAL BROADCAST TELEVISION signals. Also for any DBS antenna less than 1 meter in diameter.

Jim,

Welcome to the thread. Please feel free to ask any questions about DTV that you have. There's quite a few guys who've just about tried, tested and failed at using all kinds of DTV equipment. Also check out Denver DTV Info (http://www.denverdtv.info) for lots of info/links on DTV in Denver.

And the FCC rules, mentioned above, are pretty simple if you own your own home (not a townhome) they are you can put up as many, and any type of antenna or dish or internet reception device you like (as long as it's not like 15' above your roofline) - no questions! Some HOA's aren't quite up on the FCC rules. All you have to do is drop off a copy of the legal rules and its amazing how quick they learn!

We have about another year plus, before we get anything near full-power DTV here in town. So, if you want to get all you can, you may have to go the roof route.

i hope everyone had a great weekend...

i bet this is an easy question for some of yall but I'm a little confused (my wife would not be surprised) i live in metro denver and i get all kinds of stations but they don't seem to match up with titantv or

http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/onairstatus.htm

could some please let me in on a good link to the real denver HDTV channels.

thanks chuck

The link you posted above (dang it, I meant on the previous page) is "the real denver HDTV channels".

Perhaps if you post some specifics, we can help you out.

I bet your referring to the stations legal channel numbers vs. their remapping.

What I mean is KWGN TV2 was assigned Digital channel 34 by the FCC. But KWGN can electronically remap, so your over-the-air (OTA) digital receiver will display DT2. I know this is very confusing to most, but it will take a little while to learn. See below... The first below is the old NTSC TV channel, then the FCC assigned digital channel, then the stations remapping.

KWGN TV2 - DT34 - Remap DT2.1, 2.2
KCNC TV4 - DT35 - Remap DT4.1
KRMA TV6 - DT18 - Remap DT6.1
KMGH TV7 - DT17 - Remap DT7.1 & 7.2 (Are they really on the air yet?) ;)
KUSA TV9 - DT16 - Remap DT9.1
KDVR TV31 - DT32 No Remap
KBDI TV12 - DT38 - Remap DT12.1, 12.2, 12.3
KWHD TV53 - DT46 - Remap 53.1
KTFD TV14 - DT15 - Remap 15.1

Guys, please correct me and add the rest. I can't receive all the stations at my location.
I have now added this to the Denver DTV site to help with the confusion.

Originally posted by santellavision
KWGN TV2 - DT34 - Remap DT2.1
Depending on your receiver, you could get some unexpected sub-channel numbers. On KGWN-DT for example, I was getting 34-3 and 34-4 on one receiver (with PSIP turned off which stops the remapping), while at the same time getting 2-1 and 2-2 on another receiver. Not to mention the broadcasters are in experimentation mode and can change sub-channels from time to time.

{dang it dr_mal -- I missed again!}

Good point Ron!

If you have say... and older Sears Kenmore receiver (like Ron) you might get some weird remapings. ;)

Originally posted by svochuck
howdy all


and how do i get ABC.....

thanks

chuck

Steps for receiving ABC's Digital Channel in the Denver Area:

[list=1]
Wait until Dec. 2004 for the supertower to be built (KMGH/LCG estimate).
Realize delays in construction have moved back broadcast estimate.
Wait until next estimated completion date.
Repeat steps 2 & 3 until <pick a date yourself. My "tower pool" date is Jan. 2006>
[/list=1]

:D :D :D :D

Happy Monday everyone.

Of course, the other way to get ABC is to pitch your tent in the parking lot of KMGH... :D

Originally posted by markdl
Of course, the other way to get ABC is to pitch your tent in the parking lot of KMGH... :D

I'm still not certain that you would pick it up. You would probably have to tweak your antenna just right and use an amplifier. ;)

Or, you could move to another major metro city that does have higher power digital transmissions from the major networks. Los Angeles might be one choice.

Or, send an email to Rick Craddock (engineering manager) requesting that you come down to their station and watch the ABC digital signal in their contol room. Bring your own snacks. Wait, they might not have a TV to look at. It is not obvious that they monitor anything they send digitally.

Originally posted by santellavision
KWGN TV2 - DT34 - Remap DT2.1

Also DT2.2 (same program as 2.1, but with SAP audio)

Originally posted by DennisMileHi

Or, send an email to Rick Craddock (engineering manager) requesting that you come down to their station and watch the ABC digital signal in their contol room. Bring your own snacks. Wait, they might not have a TV to look at. It is not obvious that they monitor anything they send digitally. For a slight fee ($400,000) they may provide you with a TV...snacks would be extra tho....