MadMonkey You've been reading those commie, populist newspapers again! :D

We've typically discussed Denver-specific D* questions in this thread, even though it's technically off topic.

To get Fox-HD on D*, you probably have to do the same thing everyone else went through to CBS-HD on D* around the time of the last Super Bowl. If you're north of I-70, you'll need a waiver from the Cheyenne Fox station. South of I-70, you'll need a waiver from the Fox station in the Springs.

Alright, first post, so go easy on the newbie. I've got a Samsung 50" DLP with SIR-TS160 DirecTv tuner. I added the NFL Sunday ticket package this year since they were promising 8-9 games in HD. I realized that the Bronco games would be blocked, but it never occurred that all of the games carried by local affiliates would also be blocked. I applied for waivers unsuccessfully, but they did send me a new access card which they promised could help with the CBS-West games that were being blocked in the AM. I never got this card to work with my system and I threw it away in disgust. So my first question...could this have been the legendary "engineering" card that I've seen postings about? What is this card supposed to do?

Okay, back on topic, it never occurred to me that I might be able to pick up OTA channels in Westminster, so I was never interested in trying until I started reading the last 2 months of posts on this thread. I went out and bought a Sony KD-34XBR960 for my bedroom and I was planning to add an antenna after the holidays. Tonight I plugged a cable in just to see if I could be extremely lucky. In addition to satellite, I've got cable for broadband internet and I pay the extra $5 for basic cable. My tv started auto programming and I was startled by the number of channels it was picking up. Here's the clencher, I'm getting:

18.1 CBS HD
90.1 FOX HD
91.1 NBC HD
91.2 PBS HD
119.1 ABC HD !!!! :D

So my question is, am I:
(a) extremely lucky
(b) blissfully ignorant...there's alien technology on my roof
(c) another dumb newbie...everyone can get these stations in my part of town

Thanks for listening, looking forward from gaining the vast knowledge of the senior board members.

Originally posted by dr_mal
We've typically discussed Denver-specific D* questions in this thread, even though it's technically off topic.

To get Fox-HD on D*, you probably have to do the same thing everyone else went through to CBS-HD on D* around the time of the last Super Bowl. If you're north of I-70, you'll need a waiver from the Cheyenne Fox station. South of I-70, you'll need a waiver from the Fox station in the Springs.

I live in Longmont and have tried to get a waiver from Fox in Cheyenne. They referred me to their engineering department in Casper. They insist I get a grade B signal from Cheyenne. They are not at all cooperative, unlike CBS in Cheyenne. They will NOT grant waivers, don't care about our HD OTA situation in Denver, and they "strictly enforce the SHVIA regulations". Unless something changes, those of us North of I-70 will not have any luck with DirecTV Fox E/W HD feeds because of them.

Oh well, at least I can get Fox HD from Denver, so it is not that big a deal for me.

thanks, akastp, I knew it was going to be the dumb newbie option...btw, what's a QAM? Not down with any of the lingo yet...is there a board acronym summary somewhere?

CBS looked good during CSI NY, but had some strange breakup issues when the news came on. Also, Fox-HD West came up on D* for me tonight...no waiver!!! Looks like my 2nd annual HD Superbowl party is on!

I just tried to get Fox HD from D*. According to them waivers were not granted from KDVR and KLWY. I though with KDVR being O&O there was a blanket waiver in place.
Anyway I call KLWY and spoke with Alan in the engineering department. He says I should not be in there DMA market. A computer glich. They cannot grant waivers because I am not listed in there market but D* has me listed as beening in there market. Go figure.
What a mess.
If any of you want to try here is KLWY phone number.
307-577-5923

How come some people are getting Fox-HD around here (you are not far from me - I'm in Lafayette) without having to do anything? [/B][/QUOTE]

Fox in Denver is an O&O station. Those of us farther North are also in Cheyenne's DMA, which is not O&O. Obviously they have to draw the line somewhere, so some of us are screwed, some aren't.

Not in Cheyenna DMA, but in Cheyenne Grade B OTA signal area.

Under the old law (which is basically still in effect) you get your locals via DMA and the Out Of Market Networks are based on which signals you get (or predicted to get) via Over The Air antennas.

---

So if you live north of I70 you are in Denver DMA, but predictions show that you should get a grade B signal from Cheyenne. You need a waiver from all Grade B networks to get OOM Networks.

KMGH is owned by McGraw Hill. Based on their track record to date, I would bet they will not grant any waivers even though nobody north of downtown can get their squirrel driven HD transmissions.

Fox and CBS are O&O and that is why we should get them without hassle in Denver.

ABC will be a giant hassle which we will not likely win!

What follows is a response from DirecTV based on my inquiry into getting FOX HD:

12/23/2004 11:36 AM

Dear John,

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry, but December 2004 changes in the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act (SHVERA) prohibits DIRECTV from providing New York or Los Angeles TV stations in areas where we carry local channels. Because we offer local channels in the Denver, CO we cannot provide you with non-local network feeds. Please know that this includes High Definition network feeds from Los Angeles and New York.

New York or Los Angeles networks are now only available to customers who do not live in a Local TV Market (using boundaries established by Nielsen Media Research) and who cannot receive an over-the-air signal from a local TV station, according to standards of signal reception we are required to use (significant restrictions apply).

Please understand that federal law -- not DIRECTV -- sets strict guidelines for receiving non-local broadcast channels.

Thanks for your understanding and please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Richard
DIRECTV Customer Service

This would mean I should lose my CBS HD and does not take O&O into consideration.

Wasn't there also a piece of the new legislation that addressed digital coverage? It seems that things are worse now because of the new law. Not what I expected.

My wife and I are building a house in Highlands Ranch (completion date of March 2005) and I was wondering what HD antenna might be the best to get to receive HD OTA signals in Highlands Ranch, CO. My house will have a clear line of sight of Denver. From a HR resident's experience with getting HD OTA reception, what would be a great antenna to consider. Thanks.

Originally posted by AkaStp
What about ABC-HD when D* makes it available (could be soon according to various posts) will we get it without waivers and all that hassle?

At first I was pretty sure there was an opening here -- now I believe we have no shot. Title IX, section 204 paragrah D has language dealing with distant digital signals. And while it at firsts looks pretty good, by the time you get into testing it looks hopeless. You can request a test -- but not until April 2006:mad: and the section after that gives them loopholes/excuses for not providing the signal AND preventing us from getting it elsewhere.

Best hope for all of us with D* is that the new satellites get up and running smoothly.

I guess I'm missing the obvious here in this discussion, namely why people are trying to get Fox-HD from D* when it is one of the stronger OTA HD signals in the market. 2-1 and 31-1 should be receivable most places in Denver with even an indoor antenna... :confused:

Originally posted by kucharsk
I guess I'm missing the obvious here in this discussion, namely why people are trying to get Fox-HD from D* when it is one of the stronger OTA HD signals in the market. 2-1 and 31-1 should be receivable most places in Denver with even an indoor antenna... :confused:

It's primarily because once you're already paying a provider $50 to 125.00 a month for tv, if they add another HD channel that you'd get at no extra charge if they go ahead and authorize it for you, you just want the ability to view that channel in principle if nothing else.

Oh, and sometimes it's handy for things like timeshifting if you havent already dropped almost 800.00 or whatever on one of their HD DVR's.

Originally posted by kucharsk
I guess I'm missing the obvious here in this discussion, namely why people are trying to get Fox-HD from D* when it is one of the stronger OTA HD signals in the market. 2-1 and 31-1 should be receivable most places in Denver with even an indoor antenna... :confused:

If it's offered, I'd like to get it. With no HD-DVR and a 5 yr. old daughter, I'd rather watch prime time from 9-11 p.m. than 7-9 p.m.

With my roof mounted fixed yagi pointed downtown for CBS, NBC, and PBS, the Fox tower is 80 degrees behind me, meaning sometime I get the signal, sometimes I don't.

From D*, it is always available.

Even if you get FOX HD OTA, which I do, often the national east and west coast feeds will show different games during baseball, football and formerly hockey, which gives you the option of watching a better game-especially the way the Broncos have been playing.
also the time shifting is beneficial even if you have spent the money for tivo
receiver because you have 2 more time zone slots to schedule your recording in opening up other recording possibilities.
Questoin: I recieved waivers from ABC and CBS years ago when I first got D* and still receive E/W coast feeds from both (only CBS in HD). Will I need a FOX waiver to get national feeds from FOX ? I fear this to be true and I doubt FOX will grant any waivers now.

Word is if you got 'em, you get to keep 'em -- for now -- but that there will be no new ones. You should be able to get the west coast feed since 31 is an O&O.

Well, good luck with the waivers... I think it's as likely to occur as being able to subscribe to ABC-HD due to KMGH's perpetual lack of a signal ("no, really, we will have a full power signal any day now.")

Getting D* Fox west just fine here in Boulder, now if they would just do something about that d@mn hockey lockout so NHL Center Ice would come back.

BTW, Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, or whatever is appropriate for you to everyone here in the Denver thread. Remember our motto, "if you want OTA HD in Denver, and you are patient, work for it, support the stations and stick with it, nothing will change"

My best to all this weekend.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Even though we may not all have HDTV, at least most of us are lucky to have good health, plenty of presents, like a new Projector or HDMI DVD player ;) , lots of great food, and loving families!

Just got off the phone with DirecTV. The way I understand it, waivers that were granted in the past will still apply, and that no new waivers will be granted to get stations. Therefore, the CBS waiver I got from Cheyenne last year will still apply.

Addtionally, there are blanket waivers for NBC and ABC in the Denver area (can't wait to see Lost when D* switches on the ABC feeds!). Unfortunately, KDVR refused to grant a blanket waiver (even as an O&O) because they believe most people should be able to get the station OTA, and they don't want to lose the local advertising revenue.

I'm guessing I'll just have to invest in an antenna for this one channel, but that's not a big deal IMO. Oh, and for those of you getting the HD FOX feed, the rep told me the stations create the blackout list by zip code. Therefore if they forgot a zip code or two, voila, you get FOX.

Just my take on it.

Originally posted by kmlpatel

Addtionally, there are blanket waivers for NBC and ABC in the Denver area (can't wait to see Lost when D* switches on the ABC feeds!).



I don't believe you will be getting any ABC waivers! ;)

Originally posted by sunshinedawg
I don't believe you will be getting any ABC waivers! ;)

I guess waiver might be the wrong word. NBC-HD is turned on for me without a request for it, and the CSR said ABC should be the same. :) I certainly hope it's true!

Anyone know why, when KUSA shows the Broncos from ESPN, they don't transmit the ESPN-HD feed?

BTW, Major League looks great in HD on KWGN tonight...

Originally posted by kmlpatel
Addtionally, there are blanket waivers for NBC and ABC in the Denver area (can't wait to see Lost when D* switches on the ABC feeds!). Unfortunately, KDVR refused to grant a blanket waiver (even as an O&O) because they believe most people should be able to get the station OTA, and they don't want to lose the local advertising revenue.


Does this mean a blanket waiver from KUSA? I was denied by them. Is it time to try again?

Originally posted by kmlpatel
Just got off the phone with DirecTV.

Addtionally, there are blanket waivers for NBC and ABC in the Denver area (can't wait to see Lost when D* switches on the ABC feeds!).



A D* CSR said that? That's a good one. It's really great when they make s**t up.

Don

Reason #9835 why KMGH-HD sucks!

The wind last week blew my 6 ft Radio Shack yagi about 4 ft to the east. I had to wait for the snow to melt to get on the roof to fix it. I finally got up there today and fixed it, but it sure would be nice to get ABC-HD via satellite so I could get rid of the antenna!!! :(

The CBS NFL, early, national broadcast today was Baltimore @ Pittsburgh. One of only two AFC games with playoff significance. So what does KCNC give us, an SD broadcast. If someone forgot to throw the switch, it was for the whole game. Bummer!

Oh, and to make it worse, that game ends early and we are taken to the San Diego at Indy game and Manning breaking Marino's record. Again in SD. What a back-water operation KCNC has become. It is no wonder their local programming continues to slide in the "sweeps".

CBS didnt do the Balt/Pitt game in HD so that wasnt KCNC's fault.

A better question might be why didnt they show the SD/Indy game to begin with. An AFC West team, a good match-up and a game that was done in HD.

Originally posted by Phil T
Reason #9835 why KMGH-HD sucks!

The wind last week blew my 6 ft Radio Shack yagi about 4 ft to the east. I had to wait for the snow to melt to get on the roof to fix it. I finally got up there today and fixed it, but it sure would be nice to get ABC-HD via satellite so I could get rid of the antenna!!! :(

Spaceway 2 launch scheduled for April. I'll need to replace my dish and my 2 DTC-100s. All that to watch KMGH? Never. Directv will only pay for one HD receiver. I guess I'll invest in the 2nd receiver for Sunday Ticket purposes and still boycott KMGH (except for MNF, flame away).

Don

Dan,

That antenna I was talking about was the one you gave me and helped me put up a couple of years ago. Remember how it was only going to be temporary?
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by donyoop
A D* CSR said that? That's a good one. It's really great when they make s**t up.

Don

Nope, wasn't the CSR. It was the person they transferred me to when I started complaining that the talking to the CSR was worthless. I don't know whether or not to believe it (I did a couple of days ago, but now I'm not so sure as the NBC-E that was working for me is now OFF), but the claim from this "expert" was I was qualified to get CBS and NBC, and ABC when it become available.

Like I said earlier, maybe "waiver" was the wrong word to use. I think they just used the term "qualified", and I was taking my best guess as to why. In any case, I'm really just getting geared up for the Superbowl so my real issue is going to have to be solved by an antenna.

Originally posted by Phil T
Dan,

That antenna I was talking about was the one you gave me and helped me put up a couple of years ago. Remember how it was only going to be temporary?
:rolleyes:

Yeah I was thinkin bout that when you first posted. :)

I havent messed with mine for a long time now (cuz of Comcast).. I dont miss doin that. Although once I switched from a big Yagi to the big Bowtie my reception was solid year round anyway even on 17.

Originally posted by donyoop
Spaceway 2 launch scheduled for April. I'll need to replace my dish and my 2 DTC-100s. All that to watch KMGH? Never. Directv will only pay for one HD receiver. I guess I'll invest in the 2nd receiver for Sunday Ticket purposes and still boycott KMGH (except for MNF, flame away).

Don

Will the DTC-100's no longer work with the new sat and why would you have to get a new dish?

Howdy everyone. Hope you all had as great a Christmas as I did. No new tech toys for me, but I had a great time watching the kids opening up their presents.

And then yesterday, I got a reply from Jim Schoedler at KRMA regarding the Morrison tower status, which I've posted here with his permission:
During the past year we completed structural design of the Public Interest Communications tower. We put it out for bid and selected vendors for fabrication and construction. Once we're able to start work it should be a 3-4 month project to put up the tower, weather permitting.

We also made antenna selections for the three current broadcast partners. The timeframe for antenna delivery is roughly equal to tower construction.

We've received preliminary plans for a transmitter building and are in the process of preparing comments to the architect.

There are several hurdles yet to cross with Jefferson County. They include approval of a final plat for the site and approval of a site development plan. Bear Creek Development has several firms working on these projects. We initially believed all would be ready to file for construction permits this past summer, but the site architect has drawn up a timetable that shows that pushed back by many months.

Of course we remain interested in moving to Mt. Morrison as soon as possible, and have been considering how the schedule might be advanced. But I think the key is going to be the timing of the county approval process.


I guess the good news out of that is that the construction should only take a few months once everything's been given the green light. The obvious bad news is that they're still at the mercy of JeffCo for other approvals. Here's hoping the remaining hurdles are cleared quickly.

We initially believed all would be ready to file for construction permits this past summer, but the site architect has drawn up a timetable that shows that pushed back by many months.OK, let me see if I get it... Summer was July/Aug, plus 'Many Months' is anytime from now 'til next summer. Then a couple of sCARE BS injunctions, and 3-4 months of construction.

That makes it around summer of '06.

I seriously hope there will be no sCARE BS injunctions. I would think the time for those has passed. Although for every county permit required, I could see sCARE kicking up a fuss :mad:

Originally posted by sunshinedawg
Will the DTC-100's no longer work with the new sat and why would you have to get a new dish?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438825&pagenumber=1

Also, it has been verified that the DTC-100 is not compatible with the new multiswitch needed for Ka. More recent HD receivers are supposedly compatible; we will see if that pans out. The current 3 LNB dish will not be compatible with Spaceway (Denver HD locals on Directv next summer if the launch is successful).

Don

Originally posted by santellavision
OK, let me see if I get it... Summer was July/Aug, plus 'Many Months' is anytime from now 'til next summer. Then a couple of sCARE BS injunctions, and 3-4 months of construction.

That makes it around summer of '06. At this point ASSUMING the LCG application is given the go ahead by the JeffCo Judge one could predict similar delays for that project as well. It's looking like we'll be well into 2006 before we see any high power LCG transmissions emanating from Lookout.

Originally posted by Geof
.........................It's looking like we'll be well into 2006 before we see any high power LCG transmissions emanating from Lookout.
It's always nice to see one of the 'original thread members' still maintaining a sense of optimism about the situation here. Must be the optimisim coming from start of the New Year.
;)

It took me less than a year to lose any optimism that I originally had. Now I have D*, Comcast, AND an antenna to make the best of a dire situation. I just wish we could send our monthly bills off to someone at sCARE!

Haven't been to this forum for a while so sorry if these have been discussed before. Has anyone tried these antennas?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1091101853964&skuId=6830888&type=product

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?CategoryID=cat08084&id=1091101853739&skuId=6830824&type=product&ref=10&loc=01

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006G12LE/ref=pd_sbs_e_1/103-1415520-7093411?v=glance&s=electronics

I live about 2 mile E of KMGH studios and cannot get a signal with my Silver Sensor. Are there any other indoor antennas that have come around that might give me a better shot?

Originally posted by Geof
At this point ASSUMING the LCG application is given the go ahead by the JeffCo Judge one could predict similar delays for that project as well. It's looking like we'll be well into 2006 before we see any high power LCG transmissions emanating from Lookout.
It's going to be much longer than that... all that needs to happen is for one single thing to occur that will require them to go before the (new) JeffCo commisioners, and that's it for several more years as each of the newly elected commisioners campaigned on a "no new tower on Lookout" platform.

The only way we'll see full power DTV in Denver any time before 2008 or so is if the FCC steps in and uses their power to override JeffCo in the name of the public interest...

Originally posted by kucharsk
It's going to be much longer than that... all that needs to happen is for one single thing to occur that will require them to go before the (new) JeffCo commisioners, and that's it for several more years as each of the newly elected commisioners campaigned on a "no new tower on Lookout" platform.

The only way we'll see full power DTV in Denver any time before 2008 or so is if the FCC steps in and uses their power to override JeffCo in the name of the public interest... Like I said...."ASSUMING the LCG application is given the go ahead by the JeffCo Judge"....

The only way we'll see full power DTV in Denver any time before 2008 or so is if the FCC steps in and uses their power to override JeffCoAnd what's to stop sCARE from then taking the FCC to court and tying things up even longer. Our legal system is the best in the world, but it can also suck too.

Originally posted by acousticbiker
Haven't been to this forum for a while so sorry if these have been discussed before. Has anyone tried these antennas?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1091101853964&skuId=6830888&type=product

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?CategoryID=cat08084&id=1091101853739&skuId=6830824&type=product&ref=10&loc=01

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006G12LE/ref=pd_sbs_e_1/103-1415520-7093411?v=glance&s=electronics

I live about 2 mile E of KMGH studios and cannot get a signal with my Silver Sensor. Are there any other indoor antennas that have come around that might give me a better shot?

My personal opinion is "bleh" for all 3 of those antennas. I live about 3 miles west of KMGH and have the Radio Shack uhf only yagi mounted on my roof to pick them up. If you absolutely have to stay inside with your antenna, be prepared to resign yourself to the chance that you may not be able to receive KMGH regardless of what you do. That said, I'd recommend this antenna from Radio Shack - it should work much better than any of the three that you listed: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=930-0998

Oh, and optimism? What's that?

Originally posted by santellavision
And what's to stop sCARE from then taking the FCC to court and tying things up even longer. Our legal system is the best in the world, but it can also suck too. Ernie's right, and the legal issues likely wouldn't stop with SCARE. The FCC has never overridden local decisions and if they did it would result in legal battles coming out the wazoo.

Please forgive my ignorance, since I'm fairly new to this site, but I'm confused again. I now hear you reffering to a KRMA tower om Mt. Morrison. Is this a different tower on a different site than the LCG tower on Lookout Mt? I tried to find Mt. Morrison on mapQuest but I could only get a srteet map of Morrison. So at the risk of sounding like a complete moron are Mt. Morrison and Lookout Mt. the same or are these two different projects?
If they are different, then if Mt. Morrison is approved before Lookout can LCG move their tower to Mt.Morrison?
I realize you've probably covered this before, but have mercy on the ignorant, please.

Originally posted by tngjsv
Please forgive my ignorance, since I'm fairly new to this site, but I'm confused again. I now hear you reffering to a KRMA tower om Mt. Morrison. Is this a different tower on a different site than the LCG tower on Lookout Mt? I tried to find Mt. Morrison on mapQuest but I could only get a srteet map of Morrison. So at the risk of sounding like a complete moron are Mt. Morrison and Lookout Mt. the same or are these two different projects?
If they are different, then if Mt. Morrison is approved before Lookout can LCG move their tower to Mt.Morrison?
I realize you've probably covered this before, but have mercy on the ignorant, please.

Morrison is the next Mtn South of Lookout. The Broadcasting facilities sit just above Red Rocks.

Originally KRMA was a LCG member and like the rest of the LCG stations they were going to be on Lookout. After the first LCG application was denied they eventually parted company with the LCG and chose to submit an application for Mt. Morrison. That project was eventually approved and when completed KRMA will be located on that mountain.

Hello Everyone and Happy New Year,

We have just completed a PSIP change to comply with a January 1, 2005 deadline that was set forth by the ATSC. The change affects the MPEG-2 Packet Identifiers and certain HD receivers may require a rescan of our DTV broadcast on UHF channel 34. I know for a fact that Samsung T165 receivers will require a rescan and T150 receivers did not but I would suggest rescanning any receiver just to be on the safe side and to eliminate unnecessary downtime for viewing WB2 Colorado.

Thanks and Cheers!


Dave Martinez
KWGN-TV

Thanks much for the heads up, Dave! Your participation here is very much appreciated, and Happy New Year to you as well! Here's to glitch-free DD5.1 audio on KWGN in 2005! :)

Originally posted by Geof
At this point ASSUMING the LCG application is given the go ahead by the JeffCo Judge one could predict similar delays for that project as well. It's looking like we'll be well into 2006 before we see any high power LCG transmissions emanating from Lookout.

So we now have the definition of KMGH's "soon", but the "soon" is preceded by a big "if". Do you think that KMGH will consider going to Republic Plaza if the LCG app is terminated by the new JCC board? Never. I will never get D* channel 87 KABC-HD because of KMGH no waiver, won't switch to Comcast due to Sunday Ticket, and will have to go to D* HD LiL just to see MNF and the Microsoft Excel (XL) Superbowl in Detroit next season. What's Lost? Just the HD wild card games on January 8.

It will be the pits if the ABC XL Superbowl in February 2006 will not be able to picked up by many OTA in the Denver area, but that's what we are looking at.

Don

Originally posted by donyoop
So we now have the definition of KMGH's "soon", but the "soon" is preceded by a big "if". Do you think that KMGH will consider going to Republic Plaza if the LCG app is terminated by the new JCC board? Never. I will never get D* channel 87 KABC-HD because of KMGH no waiver, won't switch to Comcast due to Sunday Ticket, and will have to go to D* HD LiL just to see MNF and the Microsoft Excel (XL) Superbowl in Detroit next season. What's Lost? Just the HD wild card games on January 8.

It will be the pits if the ABC XL Superbowl in February 2006 will not be able to picked up by many OTA in the Denver area, but that's what we are looking at.

Don Yeah exactly....soon means less than a century or a millenium in cosmic terms right?

And NO, I would not expect KMGH to move to the Republic Plaza ever, as in NOT SOON....;)

I just recently go a new HDTV and HD-TiVo. I got everything set up and decuded to venture up into the attic to install the OTA antenna. It's a large Radio Shack directional (~10' to '15 long) pointed due South. I live in SW Loveland and do not have any preamps hooked up. I am able to receive most of the expected channels (except KMGH, of course :mad: ). Here's a list...

Channel 2-1 - Frequency 34 - The WB - KWGN = 85 yes
Channel 2-2 - Frequency 34 - The WB - KWGN = 85 yes
Channel 3-1 - ???????????? - CBS - KREG - ?? no
Channel 4-1 - Frequency 35 - CBS - KCNC = 20 yes
Channel 6-1 - Frequency 18 - PBS - KRMA = 68 yes
Channel 7-1 - Frequency 17 - ABC - KMGH = 0 no
Channel 9-1 - Frequency 16 - NBC - KUSA = 77 yes
Channel 12-1 - ???????????? - PBS - KBDI = ?? no
Channel 12-2 - ???????????? - PBS - KBDI = ?? no
Channel 12-3 - ???????????? - PBS - KBDI = ?? no
Channel 14-1 - Frequency 15 - Telefutura - KTFD = 77 yes
Channel 22-1 - ???????????? - Fox - KFCT = ?? no
Channel 24-1 - ???????????? - Spanish - KMAS = ?? no
Channel 32-1 - Frequency 32 - Fox - KDVR = 90 yes
Channel 53-1 - Frequency 46 - TV 53 - KWHD = 60 yes

-----

Channel ?? - Frequency 30 - ?? - ?? = 20
Channel 38-3 - Frequency 38 - PBS - KBDI = 95

Channel = What channel comes up in the TiVo guide.
Frequency = What shows up when checking the signal strength on the TiVo.
The number at the end is what the signal strength is.
The "yes" or "no" is whether or not the TiVo tunes to the channel.

My question is that that KBDI on freq. 38 comes in VERY strong while checking signal strength. There it is mapped to 38-3 (I assume there is a -4 and -5 as well). However, the TiVo guide shows these channels mapped to 12-1, -2, -3...and it doens't tune to the channel correctly. Is there anything that can be done to fix this? Is it a problem with the DTV not sending the correct OTA guide info? Is it a problem with KBDI not sending the correct info to the TiVo unit?

I did some quick searching of this thread and there was some talk of KBDI not remapping their channels (PSIP) at the beginning of November. But, this question wasn't specifically answered (I don't think).

Thanks for any help you can give!
Mike

I can't tune to any of the KBDI DTV channels, either (using the HR10-250). But since they don't have any HDTV, I haven't cared enough to try to fix it (or even find out why).

Originally posted by mikeaco
Channel 4-1 - Frequency 35 - CBS - KCNC = 20 yes
Mike,
Does 'tune the channel' mean that you can actually watch it? I have a few channels, on either of my receivers, that during 'programming' is picked up, but I've never had the signal strength to view. So, your KCNC, for instance, only has a SS of 20, can you view it? For me, anything, say, below about 35%, is there, but can't be viewed.

For KBDI, I get it just fine, in the 38's. However, sometime in the past, I think that it was remapped to the 12's. Who knows, as far as I'm concerned, the remapping is all phony crap anyway.

....jc

Yes, 'Tune To The Channel' mean that I was able to watch through the TiVo tuner. However, after looking into it more, I found that it's a really jumpy signal.

The TiVo has two OTA tuners. Tuner 1 jumps between 38 and 40 for the most part, and sometimes drops out. Tuner 2 hovers around 20 to 30 and occaisonally locks.

When I tried to tune to it just now, it was a really jittery/blocky signal. So, I guess that it doesn't have the signal strength to lock continuously. I'll have to play with that one, I guess.

I'm pretty happy, overall, since I have the antenna in the attic and no pre-amp. From my attic to the basement, I'm probably running close to 100' of RG6. I'll have to see if adding a preamp helps.

---

Thanks, dr_mal. I guess that you are right not to bother. And besides, I get KRMA anyway, which does have HD programming.

Mike

Originally posted by mikeaco
Thanks, dr_mal. I guess that you are right not to bother. And besides, I get KRMA anyway, which does have HD programming.
Ah, come on! It's an excellent example of multicasting!:D
....jc

My question is that that KBDI on freq. 38 comes in VERY strong while checking signal strength. There it is mapped to 38-3 (I assume there is a -4 and -5 as well). However, the TiVo guide shows these channels mapped to 12-1, -2, -3...and it doens't tune to the channel correctly. Is there anything that can be done to fix this? Is it a problem with the DTV not sending the correct OTA guide info? Is it a problem with KBDI not sending the correct info to the TiVo unit?

Mike, I have had the same problem with channel 12 since my HDtivo took the 3.1.1e software upgrade. Mine is also mapped to 38-3, 38-4, 38-5. No fix yet that I know of.

Originally posted by x1hdtv
Mike, I have had the same problem with channel 12 since my HDtivo took the 3.1.1e software upgrade. Mine is also mapped to 38-3, 38-4, 38-5. No fix yet that I know of.
Problem? Fix? I don't see 1. It's KBDI. I've got 2 tuners, 2 different manufacturers, and 1 is D* and 1 is not. Same result, 38.... How could a software upgrade cause that?
....jc

Originally posted by Geof
Ernie's right, and the legal issues likely wouldn't stop with SCARE. The FCC has never overridden local decisions and if they did it would result in legal battles coming out the wazoo.
This isn't true. The FCC's decision to override local zoning ordinances and homeowner CC&Rs regarding TV antennas and small (less than 1m) satellite dishes is the biggest proof of this.

Originally posted by kucharsk
This isn't true. The FCC's decision to override local zoning ordinances and homeowner CC&Rs regarding TV antennas and small (less than 1m) satellite dishes is the biggest proof of this. Antennas are one thing, overriding local land use policies is something totally different. To my knowledge the FCC has never overruled a local land use decision and told a county (or other local entity) where to build a tower. In the case with antennas the FCC is protecting our rights to receive signals. In the case of the tower the FCC would be telling the county where to transmit said signals. Up to this point in time the FCC has never stepped in and said "this is where you'll transmit the signals". If the FCC does this it will end up in the courts for years.

A couple of things this morning here - last night I did have to rescan KWGN to get it to tune with my 921. I could tune to it with strong signal, but there was no picture or audio.

And, yesterday I received a message from Rick Craddock saying that the DD5.1 should be back on KMGH in the next couple of weeks. They're in the process of doing in-house testing now on the fixed system.

Problem? Fix? I don't see 1. It's KBDI. I've got 2 tuners, 2 different manufacturers, and 1 is D* and 1 is not. Same result, 38.... How could a software upgrade cause that?

I use to get channel 12 correctly placed at 12-1, 12-2, 12-3. The morning of receiving the 3.1.1e software ( about 6 weeks ago) I can only receive them on 38-3,38-4,38-5. Maybe this happened at the same time with KBDI. I don't know. I am reporting when my problem started.

I wrote the FCC about this several years ago, and posted their response:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1350520#post1350520

I was not aware of any need for the FCC to determine, establish location for towers, and confiscate land for said use, I thought it was a matter of existing property available. So I am under the completely wrong impression of what the issues were. If it had been a matter of property being controlled by others to restrict, limit, or eliminate OTA communication on that property, that would be another matter, not too dissimilar than what homeowners have had to contact the FCC for to settle such disputes. IMO, the main reason the stations have not contacted the FCC yet, is simply because they don't feel a need to be spending the money on the tower, transmitters, and electric bill yet.

Happy New Year everyone!

Originally posted by markdl
And, yesterday I received a message from Rick Craddock saying that the DD5.1 should be back on KMGH in the next couple of weeks. They're in the process of doing in-house testing now on the fixed system.

Good news! Wonder where we'll see the return to 5.1 on ABC first... on KMGH? or WABC / KABC from D*?

Originally posted by x1hdtv
I use to get channel 12 correctly placed at 12-1, 12-2, 12-3. The morning of receiving the 3.1.1e software ( about 6 weeks ago) I can only receive them on 38-3,38-4,38-5. Maybe this happened at the same time with KBDI. I don't know. I am reporting when my problem started.
I still have the 3.1.1d software (my TiVo really doesn't like my Vonage line, so can't get the authorization hit to activate e), and cannot tune to channels 12-1, 2, or 3 either. If I ever start to care, I may chase the problem down.

Originally posted by markdl
And, yesterday I received a message from Rick Craddock saying that the DD5.1 should be back on KMGH in the next couple of weeks. They're in the process of doing in-house testing now on the fixed system.
So how are they getting DD5.1 onto an NTSC signal? Or are you referring to the mythical KMGH-DT, which as far as me and my HD TiVo can tell, doesn't exist? :p :D

Originally posted by bikenski
Good news! Wonder where we'll see the return to 5.1 on ABC first... on KMGH? or WABC / KABC from D*? No doubt in my mind....I will NEVER see 5.1 on KMGH...:mad:

Does anybody know of any freebie Terrain Propagation software? I am interested(and I'm sure others are) of seeing what lies between my antenna and Denver transmitters. I would like, among other things, to try and unravel the mystery concerning KMGH.

Thanks,
....jc

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
Does anybody know of any freebie Terrain Propagation software? I am interested(and I'm sure others are) of seeing what lies between my antenna and Denver transmitters. I would like, among other things, to try and unravel the mystery concerning KMGH.

Thanks,
....jc I know the answer to your mystery....you're really the engineer at KMGH and have pointed your toy transmitter antenna just right....lol....lol....

Originally posted by Geof
I know the answer to your mystery....you're really the engineer at KMGH and have pointed your toy transmitter antenna just right....lol....lol....
I am serious, about the request.:cool: But, I would like to know how you point an omni-directional transmitter?:confused:

....jc

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
I am serious, about the request.:cool: But, I would like to know how you point an omni-directional transmitter?:confused:

....jc Put it at the bottom of a pit surrounded by tall buildings on two sides.....oh, wait, that's what they did.....;)

I was looking forward to a pitched battle with KMGH :) to obtain a waiver for the the new ABC-HD national feed from D*. But if I understand the the new SHREVA rules correctly, which I don't, it looks like no DNS waivers will be granted to anyone in a non- O&O market that receives local analog channels from D*. Does this sound correct to the learned members of our group?

Originally posted by Iwanthd
I was looking forward to a pitched battle with KMGH :) to obtain a waiver for the the new ABC-HD national feed from D*. But if I understand the the new SHREVA rules correctly, which I don't, it looks like no DNS waivers will be granted to anyone in a non- O&O market that receives local analog channels from D*. Does this sound correct to the learned members of our group?

Absolutely correct. No non O&O D* DNS waivers for ABC-HD in Denver because of the analog locals. For D* ABC HD here in Denver, it is a race between the FCC establishing "digital white area" rules to be completed by Dec 31, 2005 and availability of HD LiL sometime next summer if Spaceway 2 launch is successful in April. Until then, it is Comcast or that cabin north of the border.

Don

When determining what a "digital white area" is, it is probably safe to assume that KMGH will have the FCC sufficiently bamboozled as to the coverage area of their signal.
Our hope is for some occasional "special events" programming on D* for ABC shows (read: Bowl Games) similar to what FOX had for the World Series.
Otherwise, here is to an early launch for Spaceway 2!

Happy New Year to all!

Anyone know what format FOX has planned for the Superbowl in February?

Any chance they will do what they did last time and screw us with 480P?

They've switched to 720p. No more 480p Fox Widescreen BS. They're games look amazing on our native 720p DLP's! And IMHO, their DD sound on football is the best I've heard.

OT: Sorry to hear the latest UAL news.

[edit: darnit Ernie, type slower! :D]

I'd expect it to be 720p, now that FOX has gone HD. Last time they did it in 480p, that was FOX's corporate standard for DTV.

Originally posted by santellavision
OT: Sorry to hear the latest UAL news.

Yeah, I may have to charge my guests this year... or BYOB and BJSB (bring Jetlag some beer).

Else, maybe I'll try selling commemorative Superbowl XXXVIII nipple shields to raise some extra cash!

Is everyone in the Denver DMA getting free D* national Fox HD feeds? That's the channel I really need, and of course, no SB w/o it!

Thanks,
....jc

FOX has a decent OTA signal, will definitely tweak the antenna for the game

I just had a nice conversation with 1 of the engineers at KDVR, and he told me that they were already broadcasting their digital signal at full power. So, apparently, my hopes of getting KDVR OTA are kaput. Since he used to live in this area, he said that he may take a 'field trip' out here to check the signals. However, I don't know what good that will do me.

I also called D*, and no luck there either. The dude spoke about the new law(that's apparently already in effect), D* offers locals in this DMA so no network feeds. However, I'm grandfathered in with NBC, that I got a few months ago. Whoopee, that really helps my football viewing!

Time to think up a new plan. :(

....jc

I just had a nice conversation with 1 of the engineers at KDVR, and he told me that they were already broadcasting their digital signal at full powerThat engineer must celebrating New Years a bit early! ;)

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
I just had a nice conversation with 1 of the engineers at KDVR, and he told me that they were already broadcasting their digital signal at full power. So, apparently, my hopes of getting KDVR OTA are kaput. Since he used to live in this area, he said that he may take a 'field trip' out here to check the signals. However, I don't know what good that will do me.

I also called D*, and no luck there either. The dude spoke about the new law(that's apparently already in effect), D* offers locals in this DMA so no network feeds. However, I'm grandfathered in with NBC, that I got a few months ago. Whoopee, that really helps my football viewing!

Time to think up a new plan. :(

....jc I agree with Ernie. KDVR is most definitely NOT broadcasting at full power (unless something has changed). Last I heard they were at about 1/3 power (although they have the infrastructure in place to go to full power). They were being limited by the FCC to 1/3 power (or thereabouts) to avoid interference with NTSC signals (on their Ch 31 signal I believe).

Anybody have a Channelmaster 3021 (4225) they want to get rid of? PM me.

Originally posted by Geof
KDVR is most definitely NOT broadcasting at full power (unless something has changed). Last I heard they were at about 1/3 power (although they have the infrastructure in place to go to full power). They were being limited by the FCC to 1/3 power (or thereabouts) to avoid interference with NTSC signals (on their Ch 31 signal I believe).

That's weird. I'm in SW Loveland (some 43 miles from their transmitter according to antennaweb), antenna in the attic, no preamp and I get about a 90 signal strength. Of course, I guess it all depends on the antenna size and it's gain...

Originally posted by mikeaco
That's weird. I'm in SW Loveland (some 43 miles from their transmitter according to antennaweb), antenna in the attic, no preamp and I get about a 90 signal strength. Of course, I guess it all depends on the antenna size and it's gain... It looks like my memory is faulty. KDVR's ERP is about 1/4 of their licensed power.
This is according to the FCC and can be seen here (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=126).

Experience has shown digital signals are radiating farther than first projected, so your signal strength reading doesn't really surprise me.

Experience has shown digital signals are radiating farther than first projected, so your signal strength reading doesn't really surprise me.Yup, crazy as it may be, I can pull in KGWN from Cheyenne at almost 100 miles away, but not KWGN from Lookout at 4 miles away!

2 quick questions:

1) I live in Thornton, in an apartment, any chance of getting ABC HD with a OTA? Do I just need amps or am I SOL?

2) Does anyone know if the Cotton Bowl will be HD from Fox?


By the way, I know virtually everyone here is a DirecTV or Dish subsciber including myself, however I found it interesting that Comcast is now offering a HD DVR with basic digital and HD channels for $40 a month for the first year. The reason I mention this is two fold: 1, you may be able to use this with DirecTV or Dish to land a hefty discount on a DVR and 2, I found that TWC and Cox cable are doing the same in different areas which means that DirecTV and Dish are going to have to lower their prices eventually on their DVR's, right? Anyways, thought some people might be interested.

Sorry, one more thing has anyone tried getting the bare bones basic cable to see if they were able to get the HD feeds that way?


Thanks

Originally posted by kemical_head
2 quick questions:

1) I live in Thornton, in an apartment, any chance of getting ABC HD with a OTA? Do I just need amps or am I SOL?

2) Does anyone know if the Cotton Bowl will be HD from Fox?


Sorry, one more thing has anyone tried getting the bare bones basic cable to see if they were able to get the HD feeds that way?


1) SOL

2) I've read that it'll be 480p WS

In regards to Comcast, you can get the HD Locals by subbing to Basic cable and renting an HD STB (if you dont have your own QAM tuner).. bout 21.00 a month total. Not sure if they let peeps rent a HD DVR by only subbing to Basic though.

FYI, theres a Denver Comcast thread for discussing cable stuff.

Geof (or others) --

Where can we find Facility ID Numbers for stations? In your example, KDVR is 126. I'd like to track other area stations such as KKTU in WY thru the FCC.

Thanks, Bill

Originally posted by Iwanthd
I was looking forward to a pitched battle with KMGH :) to obtain a waiver for the the new ABC-HD national feed from D*. But if I understand the the new SHREVA rules correctly, which I don't, it looks like no DNS waivers will be granted to anyone in a non- O&O market that receives local analog channels from D*. Does this sound correct to the learned members of our group?

You may want to look at the 'moving' approach. This is discussed in the following thread, and tho it's title refers to locals, much of the discussion is about 'moving' to get DNS. Though I've had DNS for many years, recently including the HD E/W feeds (even ABC as of today), grandfathered from the old Primestar days, and I've had the locals since they started offering them here, it looks like with SHREVA I could be at risk of losing DNS, so I may be 'moving' too.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=489188

Originally posted by bill-fc
Geof (or others) --

Where can we find Facility ID Numbers for stations? In your example, KDVR is 126. I'd like to track other area stations such as KKTU in WY thru the FCC.

Thanks, Bill It's easier than that. Just go here (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html) and type in the station call letters.

No mention of this on either the Denver OTA or Comcast thread, but the HD feed of the Capitol One Bowl isn't being passed through by KMGH. Is anyone watching on either via cable or air?

Nevermind, it just popped into HD.
thanks KMcGrawHill...

KMGH? Is that a station????? Never heard of 'em.

Originally posted by santellavision
KMGH? Is that a station????? Never heard of 'em. I think so but I cannot be sure.

I heard talk of a station using a toy transmitter with a erector set antenna operating on a shoestring $400K budget. Word is they promised to be on the air "soon" several years ago but their crack legal team has not yet defined "soon". Worse yet, a substantial portion of that $400K went into researching the term "soon" but it looks like their legal experts are are saying they cannot define soon until later....

Happy New Year....

Another low power year that is....

The reason that KMGH popped on the HD was that I called the news room at 1:50 and asked if engineering was in. They transferred me to the Control Room. I asked the guy if he would please turn on the HD feed. He said, "You mean you aren't getting it?" I told him no and that the Rose Parade and the Capital One bowl had not been in HD all day. He said wait a minute, came back in 5 seconds and said, "You're all set now."

Clearly they don't monitor their HD signal (at least on a holiday weekend) and probably don't care much. I wonder if the Comcast feed was also just in SD. Also makes me wonder how many people actually can see ABC in HD OTA or on Comcast since I was apparantly the first one to complain. I would have called during the Rose Parade but the Discovery channel was so much better with no commercials that I didn't care.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
The reason that KMGH popped on the HD was that I called the news room at 1:50 and asked if engineering was in. They transferred me to the Control Room. I asked the guy if he would please turn on the HD feed. He said, "You mean you aren't getting it?" I told him no and that the Rose Parade and the Capital One bowl had not been in HD all day. He said wait a minute, came back in 5 seconds and said, "You're all set now."
That's kinda what I've been seeing. HD is just another thing that they have to 'deal with', and some stations are acting like it's just a pain in the a$$. It's no wonder, that it's taking so long for it to 'catch on'.

On another issue, I saw my 1st HD football game on NBC today(Thanx to a D* network feed), and it sucked. The sound was good, but the picture was in 4:3 format. Anybody else notice that? Since it was on D*, I couldn't use my other tuner to make sure of the situation. Of course, I used the 'stretch' mode to make the picture fill the screen, but that always degrades it. I also noticed that when the camera was moving, the picture got fuzzier(Is that a word?). Nice job NBC!
....jc

It was in SD until you mention on Comcast too. I would imagine that most subs dont even pay attention to whether a particular program is even supposed to be in HD. Plus calling a Comcast CSR would be anything but productive on a matter like that.

Like you, I just watched the parade on Discovery HD and then the start of the football game on a diff ABC HD source I have. I knew KMGH was supposed to have them both in HD but I have no reason to call them. Lot easier to just "turn the channel".

And TPW, NBC didnt do that game in HD.. hence the crappy 4x3 image.

KWGN-DT also had the Rose Parade in HD -- I flipped over to DiscoveryHD, but the downrezzing by D* was so obvious, I went back to KWGN-DT right away.

Thanks for the HD Rose Parade KWGN!

I may be wrong but it is the first time I remember analog 2 and digital 2-1 showing different programming.

I have directv with ota antenna in Westminster, and get good reception on Fox (channel 31.1) with the ota antenna except when an actual HD broadcast is made (ie, an NFL game in HD).

I don't understand why my signal is so good on this channel for non-hd broadcasts, then when a HD broadcast is made on the same channel, the signal goes from good to bad??

Any solutions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Somewhat discourgaged as I get a great signal for the shows I don't care about, but now anticipating a bad signal for the superbowl on the same channel.

Thanks

Originally posted by RCKYMTN
I have directv with ota antenna in Westminster, and get good reception on Fox (channel 31.1) with the ota antenna except when an actual HD broadcast is made (ie, an NFL game in HD).

I don't understand why my signal is so good on this channel for non-hd broadcasts, then when a HD broadcast is made on the same channel, the signal goes from good to bad??

Any solutions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Somewhat discourgaged as I get a great signal for the shows I don't care about, but now anticipating a bad signal for the superbowl on the same channel.

Thanks

Which DirecTv HD receiver are you using? And what are you seeing exactly when it goes from "good to bad"?

I noticed that Denver's game didn't change to HD until the Rams/Jets game(which was in HD) ended. Is there a technical reason for this, or did KCNC just forget to 'throw-the-switch'(and it happened to correspond to the end of the other game)?

....jc

Hi,
I get Denver LIL through E* and am going to get my 1st HDTV next month. E* now tells me I cannot get DNS since I get Denver (300 miles away). Will I be able to get HD from Denver even though the folks who live in Denver tell me their OTA HD isn't up to speed yet?

From my area (a white area) would I be better off going with D* which now offers both Denver and DNS? Would I lose DNS after the new law is implemented?

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
I noticed that Denver's game didn't change to HD until the Rams/Jets game(which was in HD) ended. Is there a technical reason for this, or did KCNC just forget to 'throw-the-switch'(and it happened to correspond to the end of the other game)?

....jc

I think CBS as a Network is only able to pipe a certain number (like 2) of games through the system in HD at the same time. Thus it was no coincidence.

Originally posted by david mcdaniel
Will I be able to get HD from Denver even though the folks who live in Denver tell me their OTA HD isn't up to speed yet?
David,
U'r best chances, at this time, will be with D*, and their future Spaceway satellites.

From my area (a white area) would I be better off going with D* which now offers both Denver and DNS?
Call them again. If U'r not in the Denver DMA, I don't see how you could get their locals.

Would I lose DNS after the new law is implemented? I'm not sure when the law becomes effective, but D* told me it already has. In a DMA, no DNS(unless you already have it - Grandfathered). Period. I just tried.

I'm not a happy camper.:mad: Between Denver's 'low power HD', new laws, local stations controlling everything, and the 'pocket stuffing' in Washington, I don't know when the working American will get a break, and get access to what they want, HD.
....jc

Originally posted by DP1
I think CBS as a Network is only able to pipe a certain number (like 2) of games through the system in HD at the same time. Thus it was no coincidence. Yes, this has happened several times during the season.

Dan, it is a sony HD200 hd receiver. It has a signal meter on the screen. Usually it is "good" for normal broadcasts, but during some HD broadcasts, the signal occasionally goes to "bad", and gets choppy to the point of not being able to watch it. Just seems odd that the signal is so good for non-hd broadcasts. Did not know if it was something that had to do with how fox broadcasts their hd programs??, or possibly it is my receiver.

I am using a channel master antenna in the attic. CBS, PBS and NBC all come in pretty good, nothing on ABC. And so does fox except as noted.

Thanks.

AkaStp,

Are you parting with your DB-4??

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Hello Everyone and Happy New Year,

We have just completed a PSIP change to comply with a January 1, 2005 deadline that was set forth by the ATSC. The change affects the MPEG-2 Packet Identifiers and certain HD receivers may require Thanks and Cheers!

Dave Martinez
KWGN-TV

Huh? I thought this requirement was for February 1st, not January 1st. If so, I'm way behind on my PSIP project. Visiting from New Mexico for the holidays, checked Denver thread to see progress so far.

Marcus Damberger
KBIM-TV

Originally posted by DP1
I think CBS as a Network is only able to pipe a certain number (like 2) of games through the system in HD at the same time. Thus it was no coincidence.

So, that explains it. I was really pissed today when it started out in SD. It would be nice if they would explain this to the viewers. I'll bet KCNC got alot of calls about it now that there are allot more HD STB's & DVR's from comcast out there. It was nice to have 5.1 too. To bad they can only do it on live shows for now.

Thanks, Are there any places in Colorado that are not in a DMA? Will living in a white area in the Denver DMA allow one to get all (not just o&o) Denver locals in HDTV?

Originally posted by david mcdaniel
Thanks, Are there any places in Colorado that are not in a DMA?
No. I think that there are 4 DMA's in Colorado, and there's a pointer in here somewhere for a map.

Will living in a white area in the Denver DMA allow one to get all (not just o&o) Denver locals in HDTV?
I would think that the best place would be anywhere in the Denver DMA. As long as you are in the DMA, you should be able(in the future) to get D*'s HD locals from one of the new Spaceway satellites.

I am in the Colorado Springs DMA, and it could be quite a bit longer before the HD stations here are on satellite. I hang out here because all of my OTA signals come from Denver.

....jc

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
No. I think that there are 4 DMA's in Colorado...
....jc

There are three television DMAs in Colorado:
(18) Denver
(92) Colorado Springs/Pueblo
(189) Grand Junction/Montrose

Originally posted by TommyK
There are three television DMAs in Colorado:
(18) Denver
(92) Colorado Springs/Pueblo
(189) Grand Junction/Montrose
Not so fast antenna breath!;) You missed:
(47) Albuquerque-Santa Fe which includes the town of Durango.

....jc

CSI Miami was in 5.1 last night on KCNC-DT 35. No glitches that I heard. I enjoyed the 5.1 DD... very nice. Thanks, CBS and KCNC.

Don

I posted a week or so ago that I had just finished setting up a large directional VHF/UHF/FM Rat Shack antenna in the attic. I've had a few days now to play around with the antenna location and where it points. I get pretty much every digital station out of Denver...FOX (very strong...90), WB (strong...82), NBC (good...71) and the PBS stations (38...very strong...95, 46 and 15...fair...mid 60's) (of course, no ABC). However, CBS (KCNC) is not so good for me. It jumps between 20 and 30 and sometimes gets into the mid 40's or mid 50's. I can occasionally lock, but even then I get breakups.

I just went out yesterday and bought a Silver Sensor to see if a dedicated UHF antenna would help. It helped on all of the channels I was getting a few points, but nothing major. CBS (KCNC) still does the same thing (bounces around). The one thing that happened when adding the Silver Sensor is that I now pick up CBS-Cheyenne (KGWN) at around 70. I thought this weird since I thought the Silver sensor was highly directional. I'd still really like to get KCNC because I've read they are more consistant with HD than KGWN. I have no preamps or inline amps and am located in SW Loveland, point due South and have no LOS obstacles.

Anyway, I'm wondering if others may think that I'm just in a bad spot for KCNC. It doesn't make sense becuase KCNC is located in the same place as other stations that I get just fine. Is a bouncy signal indicative of something that can be cured with a pre amp? I'm worried that adding a pre amp will saturate some of the other channels that I get really well right now.

Depending on what others think, I may just be happy that I get KGWN. I don't really want to put the antennal outside since there is nothing between me and the foothills to break the strong winds. I did try to stick the Silver Sensor (since it's so small) out a South facing window on the second floor and wasn't able to improve KCNC any.

Thanks for your inputs!

The stations on top of the Republic building are KUSA (16), KCNC (35) and KRMA PBS (18) (I'm not counting KMGH (17)!!). The other three stations are on Lookout (32 and 34) and Squaw mountain (38).

My experience with the downtown transmitters is that KUSA is the best signal, with KRMA second and KCNC third, but not a major drop from the other two. I live SE of downtown and can also get KMGH (17).

If KCNC is the weakest for you, maybe it is just the way their antenna pattern occurs even tho they are on the same building.

If you really want KCNC, you might try the roof of your house. I use guy wires and don't have any trouble with wind. I doubt that a pre-amp would help you. You will never get KMGH from where you are.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
I use guy wires and don't have any trouble with wind.
Oh, just wait until you get some ice and those guy wires go flinging from your roof and take out the neighbouring houses ;)

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
If KCNC is the weakest for you, maybe it is just the way their antenna pattern occurs even tho they are on the same building.

That's what I was thinking. There may be nothing that I can do. I did try the Silver Sensor outside one of my home's South facing windows (just held it and pointed it in different directions. It didn't help. It was about 10' below the highest point on my roof.

I may try some other places around the house. Maybe some are better than others when dealing with antenna pattern issues.

Thanks!

Oh, and I'm not disillusioning myself with KMGH. I wonder when KKTU in Wyo will be up and running again...

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
My experience with the downtown transmitters is that KUSA is the best signal, with KRMA second and KCNC third, but not a major drop from the other two. Mine also. Keep in mind that KCNC broadcasts on a much higher frequency (ch 35) than the other two, which goes a long way toward explaining why it's harder to pick up.

Like the others have said, get the antenna outside and high up! Optimize the orientation for KCNC and you should get the others as a bonus.

There seems to be that problem for us around Loveland and Longmont. I've been scratching my head on this, as it seemed to start about 2 years ago (I think), and seems to be impossible to resolve. It used to be a good signal here before that. My latest guess is that the Estes Park station
K35EQ (Channel 35; ESTES PARK, CO; Owner: CHANNEL 20 TV COMPANY) may be the culprit, but again, just a guess. Another poster in Longmont just west of me by a couple miles (closer to the front range) doesn't seem to have that problem, but maybe he's being shadowed from our local channel 35. With 35 and 17 being used locally here, I guess the FCC didn't expect us to get anything from Denver for a long time to come.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
The stations on top of the Republic building are KUSA (16), KCNC (35) and KRMA PBS (18) (I'm not counting KMGH (17)!!). The other three stations are on Lookout (32 and 34) and Squaw mountain (38).
A little research indicates that all of the transmitters on Republic are pretty much all 'toys'. Here's what they are licensed for:
KCNC 11.0 kW
KMGH 1.91 kW
KUSA 10.9 kW
KRMA 13.8 kw

Geez, does this show anything? Especially when you consider their construction permits for permanent Digital are near 1000 kW.

One odd thing is KDVR. They are one of the few stations with an actual Digital license vs a temporary permit. The current license is for 223 kW. However, they have a construction permit for 1000 kW. Maybe the engineer was correct when he told me that they were broadcasting at full power(223 kW). I would like to know what happened with the construction permit for 1000 kW. I need those extra watts!

....jc

Mike: Also... the Silver Sensor is good but there are better and bigger antennas. Read some of the many posts above. CM and Winegard are good.

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
A little research indicates that all of the transmitters on Republic are pretty much all 'toys'. Here's what they are licensed for:
KCNC 11.0 kW
KMGH 1.91 kW
KUSA 10.9 kW
KRMA 13.8 kw
Correction. As most of us know, KMGH does not broadcast from Republic, but from a tower at their nearby studios.:cool:

....jc

When I lived in Loveland (actually, just west of Loveland, off of Glade Road), my first attempt at the Republic stations resulted in just occasional blips on KCNC. I think I was using a small RS Yagi at the time. I switched to an 8-bay bowtie and added 5 feet to my antenna mast, and KCNC and KRMA (and later, KUSA) all came in with 80+ SS, all usually within a few points of each other. Of course, even with a tripod and guy wires, I had to make 6-7 trips a year up to the roof to re-aim the antenna after those 80mph gusts. IIRC, KCNC was more susceptible to breakups.

Originally posted by mikeaco
That's what I was thinking. There may be nothing that I can do. I did try the Silver Sensor outside one of my home's South facing windows (just held it and pointed it in different directions. It didn't help. It was about 10' below the highest point on my roof.

I may try some other places around the house. Maybe some are better than others when dealing with antenna pattern issues.

Thanks!

Oh, and I'm not disillusioning myself with KMGH. I wonder when KKTU in Wyo will be up and running again...

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
A little research indicates that all of the transmitters on Republic are pretty much all 'toys'. Here's what they are licensed for:
KCNC 11.0 kW
KMGH 1.91 kW
KUSA 10.9 kW
KRMA 13.8 kw

Geez, does this show anything? Especially when you consider their construction permits for permanent Digital are near 1000 kW.

One odd thing is KDVR. They are one of the few stations with an actual Digital license vs a temporary permit. The current license is for 223 kW. However, they have a construction permit for 1000 kW. Maybe the engineer was correct when he told me that they were broadcasting at full power(223 kW). I would like to know what happened with the construction permit for 1000 kW. I need those extra watts!

....jc I answered this a few posts back. The FCC has limited them to where they are to avoid interference. Once the analogs are turned off I believe they will be able to increase their power.

NIT: KMGH's antenna is not on a tower....it's on top of their studio building.

Originally posted by Geof
NIT: KMGH's antenna is not on a tower....it's on top of their studio building.
Geof,
Sorry about that, I assumed that they had some sort of a tower at the site(like a lot of older stations do). 20.3M above average ground level, yup, a whopping 66' up.

....jc

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
Geof,
Sorry about that, I assumed that they had some sort of a tower at the site(like a lot of older stations do). 20.3M above average ground level, yup, a whopping 66' up.

....jc And that is the biggest problem with their setup. If they were on top of the Republic Plaza the added height would allow many more folks to receive their signal.

Where's Jetlag's pics of the antenna? I need a good laugh!

Originally posted by mikeaco
That's what I was thinking. There may be nothing that I can do. I did try the Silver Sensor outside one of my home's South facing windows (just held it and pointed it in different directions. It didn't help. It was about 10' below the highest point on my roof.

I may try some other places around the house. Maybe some are better than others when dealing with antenna pattern issues.

Thanks!

Oh, and I'm not disillusioning myself with KMGH. I wonder when KKTU in Wyo will be up and running again...

I'm not sure what is causing the interference for you guys in East Longmont and SW loveland. I don't know if I am proctected from the Estes 35 signal or not. I can tell you that it was not easy for me to receive the signals from Republic plaza. I had to have my wife get on the walkie-talkie and just tried every postion until they all came in. I literally tried everywhere, roof, attic and all over the yard. My antenna ended up in some aspen trees in my back yard. Height is important, but finding the best location/direction is even more imortant being so far north as we are.

That being said, I almost never have breakups. Once in a blue moon, KRMA will have a slight glitch, but I don't get that strong of signal for them, it only hovers around 60. I dare not touch it. It has not moved in over a year luckily. I get really scared every time we get a big wind storm.

Originally posted by santellavision
Where's Jetlag's pics of the antenna? I need a good laugh!
Really, shouldn't those pictures be posted on the DTV web page as a reference for anyone needing to understand why that ABC station (I forget the call letters) is AWOL in Denver.
:D

The Denver DTV Info Site (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm) has quite a bit of misinformation on it. It says that Fox is broadcasting on channel 32.1, but in real life it is 31.1. It also says KDVR is 12.1, 12.2, and 12.3 when they have recently changed it to something like channel 43 or something. They also say that channel 2 is remapped to 2.1 and 2.2. It's 2.1 only, there is nothing on 2.2. There is no contact info on that site at all, so I can't inform whoever updates it of the errors.

Wow, I hadn’t noticed that. Looks like it's time to update your info Ernie!

Originally posted by Joe Redifer
The Denver DTV Info Site (http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/denverdtv.htm) has quite a bit of misinformation on it. It says that Fox is broadcasting on channel 32.1, but in real life it is 31.1. It also says KDVR is 12.1, 12.2, and 12.3 when they have recently changed it to something like channel 43 or something. They also say that channel 2 is remapped to 2.1 and 2.2. It's 2.1 only, there is nothing on 2.2. There is no contact info on that site at all, so I can't inform whoever updates it of the errors.
Sorry, Ernie, but it appears that the rumors that I've been hearing about you are true.:D
Actually, it's not that bad. KDVR is broadcasing on channel 32(it's frequency), just remapping it to 31.*. Not KDVR, but KBDI was correct, but they recently decided to change things from 12.* to 38.*. And WB, who knows, I've seen it about once(for a few minutes).

Remember, the 'remapping' is phony crapola anyway.:)
....jc

I'll fix what's wrong... but Joe, it looks almost all correct. You're mistaken a bit.

KDVR is actually DT32 and they remap to DT31
And where does it say KDVR is DT12.1? KBDI is DT38 remapped to DT12.1

I fixed KWGN's 2.1 and removed 2.2

Would some others check the site and see if there are errors.
Thanks!

"And where does it say KDVR is DT12.1? KBDI is DT38 remapped to DT12.1"
That, I assume, was a typo.

I think he was talking about the virtual channel, it says “Remapped to 32.1� which is wrong. Just change that to 31.1 and change the KBDI thing, and you should be golden.

I get messed up on my call letters. Screw 'em, I'll just refer to the stations by their analog channel #'s. I meant channel 12, so that was my mistake. I never ever watch channel 12, but I did notice that they turned off the remapping or something. All I know is that I can't get anything on channel 32 or 32.1, but I can get Fox on 31.1. So the "remapping" is definitely not crapola, even if it's not the true channel (though both the real and remapped channels should be listed for completeness' sake).

Is it possible to get a digital channel without going to a ".1" or ".2", etc? I can't get anything on DT-16 but if I tune to 16.1 I do.

For all the newbies who haven't seen KMGH's DTV transmitting antenna. Jetlag sent me them to post. Now you can see why you have pretty much no chance of receiving DT17. And, it's also for a good laugh. Especially for the other stations reading the thread. ;)

http://santellaproductions.com/ABC.jpg
http://santellaproductions.com/xmtr.jpg

Thanks Ernie. I was searching back to try and find them but you saved me the effort...!

Still funny they are and still true they are too!

The pics are great but the narrative provided by Jetlag really made me laugh! Here is the original post from 5/1/03:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2167157&highlight=coat+hanger#post2167157

Originally posted by MalcolmG
When I lived in Loveland (actually, just west of Loveland, off of Glade Road), my first attempt at the Republic stations resulted in just occasional blips on KCNC. I think I was using a small RS Yagi at the time. I switched to an 8-bay bowtie and added 5 feet to my antenna mast, and KCNC and KRMA (and later, KUSA) all came in with 80+ SS, all usually within a few points of each other. Of course, even with a tripod and guy wires, I had to make 6-7 trips a year up to the roof to re-aim the antenna after those 80mph gusts. IIRC, KCNC was more susceptible to breakups.

That's what I'm worried about in my area...the wind.

Originally posted by DennisMileHi
Mike: Also... the Silver Sensor is good but there are better and bigger antennas. Read some of the many posts above. CM and Winegard are good.

I could get a bigger/better antenna. I could some up with something that secures it to the roof or wherever to hold up to the winds (with, I'm sure, a few trips to readjust after one of those gusts as well). But, I verified last night that I get KGWN well enough to not have breakups AND then were broadcasting in HD and DD5.1. So, getting KCNC is not as worth it as much to me anymore to get consistantly...

Originally posted by Joe Redifer
The Denver DTV Info Site has quite a bit of misinformation on it. It says that Fox is broadcasting on channel 32.1, but in real life it is 31.1. It also says KDVR is 12.1, 12.2, and 12.3 when they have recently changed it to something like channel 43 or something. They also say that channel 2 is remapped to 2.1 and 2.2. It's 2.1 only, there is nothing on 2.2. There is no contact info on that site at all, so I can't inform whoever updates it of the errors.

Hmm...last time I checked (a few days ago), I thought there was a 2.2. It was just a repeat multicast of what's on 2.1 and analog 2. But, it was there and I have guide data info for it on my D* HD TiVo. I'll have to check that again.

Also, with UHF 38, my D* HD TiVo gets it's guide data loaded into 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3. However, something either in the PSIP data or the D* HD TiVo not processing the remapping properly is causing these channel to show up at 38.3, 38.4 and 38.5 for me. I wonder if it's KBDI's fault or the D* HD TiVo unit?

Hey guys this is great.
Now I know why I have such a hard time getting CBS. I wish they would increase there power to match the others. Any word on when the tower can start construction? Their has been no update for some time on the Denver DTV web site.
T

Originally posted by paintit77
Hey guys this is great.
Now I know why I have such a hard time getting CBS. I wish they would increase there power to match the others. Any word on when the tower can start construction? Their has been no update for some time on the Denver DTV web site.
T Still waiting for the Judge to get his answers before he makes a decision. The LCG needs to make sure there are absolutely no problems with their submittal because if the Judge rules it must go back to JeffCo the tower issue will die since two of the newly elected Commissioners stated they would vote against the tower.

The bottom line is the LCG has ONE shot to get the Judge happy or we'll be faced with 3-5 years more of no full power.

Originally posted by mikeaco

Also, with UHF 38, my D* HD TiVo gets it's guide data loaded into 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3. However, something either in the PSIP data or the D* HD TiVo not processing the remapping properly is causing these channel to show up at 38.3, 38.4 and 38.5 for me. I wonder if it's KBDI's fault or the D* HD TiVo unit?

Nope Mike, your Tivo unit is fine. I have no idea why, but those are normal KBDI sub-channels.

The LCG needs to make sure there are absolutely no problems with their submittal because if the Judge rules it must go back to JeffCo the tower issue will die since two of the newly elected Commissioners stated they would vote against the tower.
And it might be 3 new Commissioners. Commish Sheehan has been under extreme pressure to resign. I bet he does very soon too.

Rocky Mt. News Sheehan Story (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3446107,00.html)

That's too bad Ernie. Sheehan seemed to be the most sensible of the 3 commissioners IIRC.

Originally posted by santellavision
And it might be 3 new Commissioners. Commish Sheehan has been under extreme pressure to resign. I bet he does very soon too.

Rocky Mt. News Sheehan Story (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3446107,00.html) Well that's a shame. With 3 new commissioners is seems clear there would be little to no chance of passing any tower rezoning anytime soon. It sure would be nice to hear from Pete when they anticipate submitting their answer back to the Judge but it's also quite clear that they need to have no unresolved issues before they do so. Pete was optimistic they could get the Judge happy and I hope he's right. The spooky SCAREy folks seem to have a way of finding nits to pick though.

Remember... Judge Jackson may still hear Ms. Carney's "Mother-Of-All-Closing-Statements".
That is, unless he says he has all the information for his decision and doesn't need to hear any additional, inane rhetoric.

Warning: Slightly OT, as I'm talking specifically about D* here...

I have been reading through a lot about this HD locals and the eligibility to get national feeds through satellite and the new law and blah, blah, blah...

I was under the impression that none of the Denver stations are O&O. But, when I looked, KCNC and KDVR are, right? So, I thought, what the heck, I'll call D*'s "eligibility department" (800-263-0028). I asked them if I was eligible for any of the national feed networks. They checked and said ABC: No, NBC: No, FOX: Maybe, CBS: Maybe. They said they need to send out waivers, which may take up to 45 days to get answered, in order for D* to turn on the national HD feeds.

I was hoping that since these two stations were O&O, I wouldn't need a waiver. But, oh well, I submitted them anyway. Has anyone else had luck with this?

You should have no trouble; however, I did have to get a waiver from Cheyenne. Took less than a day. Try again, in an O&O situation, the deal is automatic. Waiver from 4 and 31 are not required.

Originally posted by MRinDenver
I did have to get a waiver from Cheyenne. Took less than a day.

I wonder why the CSR didn't mention this? Shouldn't I assume that they know what waivers they need to get based on my location? I'm not getting the waivers myself, D* is apparently doing that for me. So, once they get what they think they need, then they will just activate the channels, no?

Stupid KMGH and their "Grade B" signal, no waiver policy. I guess it wouldn't matter anyway because of the new law and them not being O&O. Now I have to "suffer" through Alias tonight in SD! :mad:

CBS was turned on for me back when it started with no effort or call on my part. I don't have FOX.

This new SHEVRA law implementation by D* strikes me as going against the basic premise of the law. Go figure. The answer to all the confusion is probably politics and confusing legaleze in the actual bill.

Originally posted by mikeaco
I wonder why the CSR didn't mention this?
I thought the CSR did mention you'd need waivers to get CBS and Fox. :confused:

The waivers are for the station in Cheyenne or Colorado Springs, depending on what part of Denver you live in (there doesn't seem to be any part of the Denver DMA that isn't overlapped by one of those cities).

So they'll send the waiver to Cheyenne for you, it'll probably get approved, and then they can turn on Fox and/or CBS for you, since you won't need waivers from the Denver stations.

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
(47) Albuquerque-Santa Fe which includes the town of Durango.

....jc

DMAs commonly bleed across state lines, especially in the Northeast part of the nation. Colorado has three DMAs. The Denver DMA includes part of Wyoming and a good chunk of the panhandle of Nebraska, but that doesn't make it a Wyoming or Nebraska DMA. The very large (in area covered) Albuquerque-Santa Fe market does include Durango, but it primarily consists of over 90% of the entire state of New Mexico. It is definitely a New Mexico DMA...

Originally posted by dr_mal
I thought the CSR did mention you'd need waivers to get CBS and Fox. :confused:

Well they did say I would need waivers, but not where I would need to get them from. I guess I read MRinDenver's reply as needing a waiver from Cheyenne *also* or *in addition to* Denver. Maybe I just misread.

Originally posted by dr_mal
So they'll send the waiver to Cheyenne for you, it'll probably get approved, and then they can turn on Fox and/or CBS for you, since you won't need waivers from the Denver stations.

That's what I'm hoping for, thanks!

Just so everyone knows, we discontinued 2-2 in August of 2004.


Dave Martinez
WB2 Colorado

Originally posted by TommyK
DMAs commonly bleed across state lines, especially in the Northeast part of the nation. Colorado has three DMAs. The Denver DMA includes part of Wyoming and a good chunk of the panhandle of Nebraska, but that doesn't make it a Wyoming or Nebraska DMA. The very large (in area covered) Albuquerque-Santa Fe market does include Durango, but it primarily consists of over 90% of the entire state of New Mexico. It is definitely a New Mexico DMA...
So, what's your point? If I lived in Durango, that's Colorado BTW, I wouldn't be in one of your 3 DMA's, but I'd still be in Colorado. My reply was explicit: There are 4 DMA's in the State of Colorado. Maybe I should change the wording:There are 4 DMA's within the boundries of Colorado. Happy Now?

....jc

Originally posted by mikeaco
Well they did say I would need waivers, but not where I would need to get them from. I guess I read MRinDenver's reply as needing a waiver from Cheyenne *also* or *in addition to* Denver. Maybe I just misread.
The situation is definitely confusing.

Good luck with the waivers! I've thought about applying for them, but since I get the stations locally without any difficulty, I don't know if it's worth it. Then again, it could be a way to solve the occasional 3-way HD conflict on my HD TiVo...

Originally posted by KWGN-DT
Just so everyone knows, we discontinued 2-2 in August of 2004.


Dave Martinez
WB2 Colorado

I just checked over lunch today and 2-2 was there, showing the same thing as 2-1. Why would I be seeing this if it was turned off? Could it be something getting replecated within my STB?

Originally posted by dr_mal
The waivers are for the station in Cheyenne or Colorado Springs, depending on what part of Denver you live in (there doesn't seem to be any part of the Denver DMA that isn't overlapped by one of those cities).

That's just how crazy that this crap is.

I don't live in a DMA, so I can't get their stations...
But, if I want a station in my DMA, I need the ok of a station that isn't in my DMA...
If I can't get the HD signal from a station in my DMA, I can't get an HD signal from another DMA...
But, I can tell them that I moved to Podonk City, USA, get their signals, and have them bill me in my current DMA...

Our 'government' at work, as always.
....jc

Originally posted by dr_mal
I've thought about applying for them, but since I get the stations locally without any difficulty, I don't know if it's worth it.

Yeah, and with HD LiL coming ???this summer??? (hopefully), it may not be worth it. The one station I wish I could get, because I can't get AT ALL OTA, is ABC. But, we all know about them...there is little hope there (no waivers, current coat hangar transmitter :), tower relocation) except for HD LiL...

As long as all this waivers, DMA talk is out there. There was talk recently about moving to our ski cabins to get the network HD signals. I recently moved to my cabin in Winter Park. When I called them to tell them, I asked to have the networks in HD added, so they transfered me around. I finally got to a guy that added Fox for me (I already had CBS), but he told me that he couldn't add NBC or ABC because the locals already have on file that they denied waivers - and even though in Winter Park there is no way for me to get ANY HD-OTA, because they are offering me SOME signal (the SD), I don't qualify for the networks in HD.

That still doesn't sound right to me, but....

Originally posted by mikeaco
I just checked over lunch today and 2-2 was there, showing the same thing as 2-1. Why would I be seeing this if it was turned off? Could it be something getting replecated within my STB?
Must be... I would try deleting and rescanning it, as it certainly doesn't show up on either of my STBs...

Re D* FOX waivers (and I think I read an earlier post that said the same thing): I called the KLWY owner's office in Casper WY, and they said that since their analog (ch 27, Cheyenne) signal is most likely Grade B in my area, their company policy is not to grant a waiver, regardless of the analog vs digital issue. But I was welcome to invite the FCC to measure the signal strength here etc etc. just in case. Apparently no waiver from FOX. The analog picture quality here is slightly snowy with poor audio. Don't know how far south the Grade B sig goes. KDVR-DT is fine about 90% of the time now, but if football and the other 10% coincide....

BTW CBS Cheyenne (KGWN) was a dream -- instant permission. And it's often much nicer to watch CBS primetime from our own time zone instead of 2 hours later. I don't get any extra NFL games since they're blacked out unless they're identical to the local (Denver) broadcast, which if it's the Broncos is always on KGWN-DT, coming in just fine. So they gave me the waiver and I almost never use it. I watch them.

Bill

Originally posted by kucharsk
Must be... I would try deleting and rescanning it, as it certainly doesn't show up on either of my STBs...

I just got my HD TiVo about two weeks ago and set up the OTA stuff only a week ago. If 2-2 was turned off last fall, then I wonder why it was picked up when I was running the initial setup scan. Well, I guess it really doesn't matter, but it's strange nonetheless...

Almost 500 pages....of disappointment mostly....

Edit...make that 500 pages....

Originally posted by bill-fc

BTW CBS Cheyenne (KGWN) was a dream -- instant permission. And it's often much nicer to watch CBS primetime from our own time zone instead of 2 hours later. I don't get any extra NFL games since they're blacked out unless they're identical to the local (Denver) broadcast, which if it's the Broncos is always on KGWN-DT, coming in just fine. So they gave me the waiver and I almost never use it. I watch them.

Bill

That's the same experience I've had. I got the waiver from KGWN right away because they were still a little shaky with thier HD. But I have found that I watch KGWN all the time and only flip to KCBS to compare sometimes, and KGWN always looks great!

Cheyenne ahead of Denver...:rolleyes: Now if they would just get working on that ABC station!

Congradulations Geof!!!!

Being the 1st, 500th page poster, you should receive a prize. Like a warm, 'radiant' dinner with Deb & Al at the Mt. Vernon Country Club on Lookout Mt. or the 'infamous' talking toaster or maybe just a poke-in-the-eye with a blunt stick. ;)

Originally posted by santellavision
Congradulations Geof!!!!

Being the 1st, 500th page poster, you should receive a prize. Like a warm, 'radiant' dinner with Deb & Al at the Mt. Vernon Country Club on Lookout Mt. or the 'infamous' talking toaster or maybe just a poke-in-the-eye with a blunt stick. ;) Humm....I'll pass on the dinner.
Not that I'd fear for my life or anything but who'd want to dine with SCAREy folks like AL & Deb? The blunt stick in the eye is intriguing but the talking toaster is a must have 21st century appliance - no?
:D

Then the toast it is!!!!! ;)

http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/toaster.jpg

The blunt stick in the eye is intriguing but the talking toaster is a must have 21st century appliance - no?

Thanks for the morning laugh amidst the depressing lack of 1080 FP news at CES.

Don

Ernie,
What's the ERP on that toaster? Does it have a native pass-through?

Hey Ernie...does that toaster say the bread is now burning in hell...lol...

No 1080 FP news? When I build my home back in Western NY I want one of those puppies......

Well kinda'. If you listen really, really closely (Not while making toast of course) You can faintly hear something eminating from it like... "ON EROM IH FED NOISIVELT" or something like that.

redrum, REDRUM!

Originally posted by mikeaco
I just got my HD TiVo about two weeks ago and set up the OTA stuff only a week ago. If 2-2 was turned off last fall, then I wonder why it was picked up when I was running the initial setup scan. Well, I guess it really doesn't matter, but it's strange nonetheless...
You'll have to call DirecTV to get this straightened out (if you care -- I've just turned off 2-2 in Channels You Receive)

The way the HD TiVos work is that DirecTV has a database of digital channels that should be available given your zipcode. Then a scan is performed to find any additional channels. 2-2 is in DirecTV's database of digital channels in the Denver area, so it gets added automatically - before a channel scan.

That's really great. More bad news from CES. Now D* HD LIL for Denver is postponed. It won't happen summer 2005.

Isn't there supposed to be a hearing this year? Or will it be next year or the year after?

That's not quite what they said at CES, Don.

While D* did announce the 12 markets that will for sure get HD LiL this summer, they also said other markets that will also get HD LiL this year will be announced at a later date.

Is there somewhere online where I can see this announcement?

Oh no! Time to get on the phone and talk to a D* CSR to get to the bottom of this! ;)

<he said in an effort to do what he can to get this thread that much closer to the 10,000 post count>

Previously, they had been talking top 30 markets. Now they are talking top 12 markets. Apparently the switch to MPEG-4 and swapout of all receivers including HD-Tivos will take some time. Previously there was speculation that most existing HD receivers would be compatible with Spaceway, but that speculation has gone away with the D* statement that new HD-STB's and a new dish will be required.

I imagine that the top 12 markets will take many months to get swapped out, hence the postponement for the next 18 markets.

That same press release also said that the new HD LIL channels would be MPEG4...the HDTivos are about to become doorstops just like the 921... (assuming you want to actually be able to view the new channels)

You don't really believe that Directv is going to fund the swapout of $1000 receivers for new $1000 receivers, do you? There certainly may be some price break, but you're fooling yourself if you think you're going to get a new receiver for nothing...

Mark,

Any word on Dish adding HD locals?

Originally posted by markdl
That same press release also said that the new HD LIL channels would be MPEG4...the HDTivos are about to become doorstops just like the 921... (assuming you want to actually be able to view the new channels)

You don't really believe that Directv is going to fund the swapout of $1000 receivers for new $1000 receivers, do you? There certainly may be some price break, but you're fooling yourself if you think you're going to get a new receiver for nothing...

I agree. If they were smart when they designed the HDTivo, a software upgrade would handle it. Or maybe they could do a board upgrade. Certainly a trip to a service depot for the STB may be involved. I don't think they are going to give out free media centers to all HDTivo owners in a one for one swap.

Here's a link to 1 article(D* Announces 1st 12 HD Markets):
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050106005719&newsLang=en

....jc

Originally posted by santellavision


Any word on Dish adding HD locals?

No, While D* has had a number of big announcements today, Dish has only had one. They're lowering the price on the 921 another full $20! ;)

DirecTV never said that only 12 markets would get HD LiL this summer or this year. They just named the first 12. I'm still very optimistic we'll get HD LiL (although I'm changing my prediction from summer to sometime in '05).

What has me more concerned is the switch to MPEG4. Although if I have to make a choice between what I can receive now OTA and from D* and using my HD TiVo or switching to a non-TiVo DVR and getting KMGH-DT as well, my HD TiVo will have a long, happy life in my entertainment centre. No way I'm giving up TiVo for KMGH.

At the end of the mpeg4 press release it says, "This advanced transmission significantly reduces the amount of bandwidth required to deliver HD via satellite. DIRECTV will continue to use MPEG-2 for standard definition broadcasts and will eventually convert all existing HD customers to the new technology introduced today".

As an existing HD customer I expect to be converted, not ripped off.

Any D* customers ever consider moving to Nucla? Before they pulled the page I was testing the DNS page for possible "locations" for my new, uh, "ranch". Coincidentally Nucla showed up being DNS eligible for all stations. Just wondering if there are any D* Nucla "residents" who might want to share their experiences.

Dan,

Dish just made 3 more announcements. 2 new LCD TV's for sale thru Dish, a new DVR-625 receiver & a new 'Multi-Room' Sat receiver (Whatever that is?)

Well I think now that the blunt stick in the eye is from D*.

Do I think the new HD receivers will be free – NO.
Do I think any existing HD receivers will be upgradable – NO.

I know I’m on the fringe here but if the best D* can come up with is a DVR that has menus that operate in slow motion and guides that take up to 12 seconds to draw then they can keep their damn next generation boxes. This HD TiVo is on my list and the 2nd biggest POS I’ve bought in the last 5 years. They’d better fix it’s shortcomings if they want me as a customer.

Originally posted by AwesomeFloyd
Any D* customers ever consider moving to Nucla? Before they pulled the page I was testing the DNS page for possible "locations" for my new, uh, "ranch". Coincidentally Nucla showed up being DNS eligible for all stations. Just wondering if there are any D* Nucla "residents" who might want to share their experiences.

Nucla, CO, 81424 does indeed show up as having no LIL availability, so it should be eligible for DNS feeds even under the new rules. You'd just have to forego the Denver locals. Montrose, CO, 81401 and 81402 also fits the bill, and probably has more "vacation" property for sale ;)

Well I live just south and a little east of Loveland and I can barely pickup KUSA -DT and I don't even get a blip on the signal for KCNC (ch35).

I have a CM4248 big yagi and even boosted the pole to 10 feet on my roof. I have no obstructions to the south and still this is all I get. I purchased a CM UHF only preamp which seem to make everything worse not better.

Anyway I am in the process of having D* send someone out to test so I can get the waivers for Digital TV. I will post back the results.

Originally posted by santellavision
Mark,

Any word on Dish adding HD locals?

Not a peep, Ernie, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them in the September/October timeframe.

The "multi-room" receiver that Dish announced is the 942.

Oh, and BTW Ernie, I should be getting my toy back either tonight of tomorrow.

After reading all of the D* Press Releases I am actually a bit encouraged. The Home Media Center could turn into something very cool. Unfortunately there is just enough in the PR to tantalize but not to fully understand how this will be implemented and how much all that will cost. I am also encouraged by the fact that they are backing away from TiVo for their future DVR's yet offering similar capabilities (at least for the features I'm interested in). The downside of the PRs is the fact that they didn't mention anything about when markets 13 and up would get on their LiL HD sat's. Like Dr_Mal I would sort of expect to see that this year sometime. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they have a ready made HD LiL market in the Denver area given our current standoff.

Originally posted by dr_mal
DirecTV never said that only 12 markets would get HD LiL this summer or this year. They just named the first 12. I'm still very optimistic we'll get HD LiL (although I'm changing my prediction from summer to sometime in '05).
Me too. Looking at the list, they followed DMA order(by size), only skipping Seattle for Tampa. So, my money says that their next HD announcement, will include Denver. So, maybe it's time to start thinking about 'moving' a few miles North of here into Douglas county.

....jc

Hey Guys! What's LiL?

Local into Local. It's when D* (or E*) broadcasts local channels into the area they originated from.

In our case, it refers to the Denver channels we're able to get via satellite.

bikenski


Nucla, CO, 81424 does indeed show up as having no LIL availability, so it should be eligible for DNS feeds even under the new rules. You'd just have to forego the Denver locals. Montrose, CO, 81401 and 81402 also fits the bill, and probably has more "vacation" property for sale

So if I buy vacation property in Nucla and advise D* that I have moved a receiver and dish there I can have DNS feed into all of my receivers regardless of where they are physically. Am I understanding that correctly??? HMMMMM

However, I am very happy in my weekend home in Kremmling that I bought last January.

Originally posted by MRinDenver
However, I am very happy in my weekend home in Kremmling that I bought last January.
For what it is worth which is probably nothing, but I went to high school in Kremmling.

Originally posted by Mtnmike
So if I buy vacation property in Nucla and advise D* that I have moved a receiver and dish there I can have DNS feed into all of my receivers regardless of where they are physically. Am I understanding that correctly??? HMMMMM

Yes, that is correct. Up until October, vacation property almost anywhere in the mountains would get you DNS *and* locals, but under the new rules you have to be in a locale not eligible for locals to obtain DNS.

Originally posted by MRinDenver
However, I am very happy in my weekend home in Kremmling that I bought last January.

As long as "Grandfather" keeps sending the locals and DNS, Kremmling is a great vacation spot, with beautiful views. As soon as he kicks the bucket though, Nucla's scenery may begin looking a whole lot better :D

OK... here is some more excellent inside info from skyboss. Denver apparently is in the 2nd twelve for D* HD LIL. They are still claiming summer but I do not know how. We all know how the HD Tivo rollout went with much more demand than supply. Perhaps the demand for HD LIL will be very small. I am naturally pessimistic about the summer promises but I could be wrong.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=37221&page=2

Don

Thanks Don. Although if I can't use my HD TiVo to pull in the MPEG4 broadcast of KMGH, I guess it doesn't really matter to me anymore when D* adds HD LiL (I know most of you aren't TiVo zealots like me, so it's still relevant for y'all)

Same here -- my HD Tivo is way more important than KMGH. Either they figure out a way to get mpeg 4 into that box or I'm off to Nucla.

Umm, if this MPEG 4 thing is going to happen, then what of the HD channels we already receive (HBO, Showtime, ESPNHD, HD Net, etc.)? I am wondering if they'll toss ~all~ of the HD programming onto the new bird, with the requisite MPEG 4... Then where will any of the current HD boxes be?

Oh boy, yet another page...

I may be off base but I suspect that the current HD programming on D* will remain where it's at until they replace all of the older (current) receivers. At some point though I would expect the current HD box to be no good for HD. How long that'll be I wouldn't begin to hazard a guess.

Originally posted by Geof
I may be off base but I suspect that the current HD programming on D* will remain where it's at until they replace all of the older (current) receivers. But I wouldn't expect to see any additional HD channels added to the current lineup on the old (MPEG-2) technology.

Originally posted by oxothuk
But I wouldn't expect to see any additional HD channels added to the current lineup on the old (MPEG-2) technology. Unfortunately that's probably true....

Anyone else lose KDVR DT recently?

I've been getting it fine for a couple of years. Then about, I dunno, maybe 3 weeks ago I noticed I had no signal. Haven't seen a trace of it since.

I''m northwest of Longmont, west of Berthoud, Carter Lake area, and get the digitial versions of 2, 4, 6, and 9 just fine.

Really annoying me because I can't get a watchable version of 31 on analg, either, and I'd kinda like to watch this afternoon's playoff game.

Did they make a change or did the wind turn my antennae a little?

I live in north Thornton just east of Lafayette, and I lost ch. 31 about the same time you did. I haven't messed with my antenna at all.

I just checked and my KDVR is coming in just fine. Double check that you don't have two 31-1. The repeater in Ft. Collins has been remapping to 31-1 and that signal doesn't come in very good.

I didn't realize there was a repeater in Ft. Collins. Should I point my antenna north?

I wouldn't point it north. I live in Greeley and can't get a reliable signal from that channel. I get a nice strong signal from KDVR (Denver signal). Just check to make sure that you are on the Denver 31-1, not the Ft.C 31-1, I have both on my receiver.

Originally posted by ByH2O
Umm, if this MPEG 4 thing is going to happen, then what of the HD channels we already receive (HBO, Showtime, ESPNHD, HD Net, etc.)? I am wondering if they'll toss ~all~ of the HD programming onto the new bird, with the requisite MPEG 4... Then where will any of the current HD boxes be?
I don't think that D* is that stupid. A big promo for HD, then 6 months later, tell people their boxes are worthless? Bigtime PR fiaso.

It seems to me(not being a rocket scientist or broadcast engineer), that the satellites are 'dumb'. What gets sent up, gets sent down. Purely a digital transmission. Anything else wouldn't make sense, or support future enhancements(on the new generation, not the old). I may be wrong here, but if they send MPEG 2 or MPEG 4, does the satellite really care?

I think, from what I've read, that MPEG 4 won't come into play, until at least 2007. If not, I'll be pissed, and D*'s competition with cable(in the HD market) would be lost.

...jc

According to the FCC data, the KDVR repeater up here, ch 21 DT, is located in Pierce, on 85 about five miles north of Ault and 20 miles ENE of me. They're currently broadcasting at 880 watts, with license set to go at 1000KW. With their 700+ ft tower, they should be a strong signal across all of the front range north of Denver.

Now that I have reliable CBS, FOX, and KGWN HD, D* only gives me ESPN HD extra, and they cost more than cable. I emailed D* about new HD channels a couple of days ago, and they replied that they had no plans to put up ESPN2 HD, but were negotiating with TNT HD. I'll probably switch back to cable after the college hoops season and wait to see how things play out.

Bill

woops -- KWGN HD. KGWN is my CBS HD station. Bill

DirecTV just announced at CES in Vegas that they will be launching ESPN2 HD this week.

Went up into the attic after the game yesterday to see if I could find KDVR again. I first started slowly moving the antenna a few degrees laterally with no luck. Then I pitched it forward about 5 degrees and BINGO!!! Now I get all the main channels solidly (except for ABC).

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
I don't think that D* is that stupid. A big promo for HD, then 6 months later, tell people their boxes are worthless? Bigtime PR fiaso.

It seems to me(not being a rocket scientist or broadcast engineer), that the satellites are 'dumb'. What gets sent up, gets sent down. Purely a digital transmission. Anything else wouldn't make sense, or support future enhancements(on the new generation, not the old). I may be wrong here, but if they send MPEG 2 or MPEG 4, does the satellite really care?

I think, from what I've read, that MPEG 4 won't come into play, until at least 2007. If not, I'll be pissed, and D*'s competition with cable(in the HD market) would be lost.

...jc It's true that a satellite transponder will pass along MPEG 2 or MPEG 4 depending upon what is uplinked from the ground station.

The way I understood the D* press releases though is MPEG 4 will come into play later this year when they start passing HD LiL for the 12 markets they named. That means they'll need to have an HD MPEG 4 receiver ready to roll out by then.

If D* makes us pay for the new receivers I'll be surprised. Last year they said there would be no more non-D* branded receivers since they wanted a common design. This makes sense now because economies of scale favor making many of one design rather than making fewer of many designs. The obvious drawback is either you like the one design or not - one cannot shop around to find the receiver with the features you like best. If D* is fronting the costs of the receivers they obviously want to reduce the costs as much as possible, hence the one receiver design approach (this also lowers their support costs). Personally I think their forthcoming MPEG 4 DVR will address the many weaknesses of the existing HD TiVo. I'll be shocked if the new DVR doesn't have vastly improved menu and guide speed and better OTA reception capabilities (or at least consistency between both tuners). Hopefully they correct the stupid GUI issues of the TiVo as well.

Yeah, but will D* ever stop re-adding the d@mn shopping channels to my custom guide every week?!?! :mad:

Originally posted by RonAuger
Yeah, but will D* ever stop re-adding the d@mn shopping channels to my custom guide every week?!?! :mad:

I think the TiVo's just get stupid when a channel is turned off (from D*). Then when it comes back on, it 'forgets' that we had that deselected before. Those few shopping channels (and a PPV or two) are only broadcast on a part-time basis. It seems that it's always the same few that return.

I guess I've just learned to deal with it. :rolleyes:

Jetlag's recipe for receiving Denver's embarassingly weak-a$$ local OTA HD signals (including KMGH-ABC, REALLY!):

1. Get yourself a BF* antenna

http://www.channelmaster.com/images/4228.jpg

2. Mount it on the roof (or else way up high) and be sure to use plenty of those deadly ice-shedding guy wires. This way not only will the antenna stay put during high winds, but you get the added benefit of having the flying ice chunks take out any neighbors who have been complaining to the HOA.

http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/files/antenna.jpg

To me, mounting an antenna inside your attic is a lot like seeing Heidi Klum at the beach................wearing a snowmobile suit.
Be proud of your HDTV! Show off that hot sexy antenna, woohoo!

Your antenna rotator CAN go inside of the attic as this will not adverseley affect reception:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/pic/rotor.jpg

Then add a simple roof seal:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/pic/roof%20seal.jpg

Done deal!
Hey, if I can do this, anyone can.

BTW, if you want to see a really gorgeous "pair", check out this LINK (http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/files/dishes.jpg)

Once you have completed all of this hard work, sit back and enjoy all of your new HD channels in Jetlag's exclusive Ultimate HT Chair! (http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/files/ht%20chair.jpg)

*stands for Big, umm.... Friendly. Yeah, thats it, BIG-FRIENDLY ANTENNA!

I know it doesn't make any sense but here's what they sent me:

"01/08/2005 10:12 AM

Dear Bill,

Thanks for writing. At this time, we don't have plans to offer ESPN 2 HD. While DIRECTV doesn't have an agreement with TNT HD right now, we are in discussions with them and we hope to add TNT HD to our lineup soon. I don't have a date to give you yet, but stay tuned to DIRECTV.com/HDTV for the latest news and announcements as they become available."

Maybe their email response staff doesn't know what their management is saying....

Nice shots, Jetlag.

Bill

They told me they were in discussions with TNT HD 2 or 3 months ago. I hope it doesn't take as long as the Showtime discussions....

Originally posted by Geof
They told me they were in discussions with TNT HD 2 or 3 months ago. I hope it doesn't take as long as the Showtime discussions....

I predict they will make it in time (TNT on D*) for the NBA playoff games in HD, especially since there will be no hockey this year, more 'sports viewers' will be wanting those games in HD. D* may not be the best, but they do leave the impression they cater to the sports fan first.

ESPN2 HD would really be great if there was hockey to watch, but with only college BB in general as the HD telecast, I don't anticipate a hugh outcry for that channel, and yet they are supposed to start on Thursday (not sure which week :D ). Go figure that one out! Why do I think there was some agreement in the original ESPN HD carry that specified what happens if ESPN2 goes HD as well.

As for the chair

Originally posted by Jetlag
Jetlag's recipe for receiving Denver's embarrassingly weak-a$$ local OTA HD signals .......................
Once you have completed all of this hard work, sit back and enjoy all of your new HD channels in Jetlag's exclusive Ultimate HT Chair! (http://home.earthlink.net/~tim_schaefer/files/ht%20chair.jpg)


I am intrigued by what I see, but where in the "H" is the grill I am supposed to use to roast the Brauts and ribs? and don't you think it would be wise to attach a hood fan, or at least an 'air freshener' for those occasional 'bad odors'?
:D :D

BTW, has anyone noticed the adds running on KMGH where the 'station talent' is bragging about the fact that KMGH can be received in HD on Comcast. Wasn't there some FCC rule that said it was also supposed to be available via OTA???? or am I wrong?? How can you 'brag' you are available on Comcast when it is your own fault that is the only place your HD singal is available? If you did what your FCC license required, you would also be available from a 'free OTA source' as well. What a crock! Since they seem to have no shame, I am surprised they don't also run an add and quote their lawyer who said they will be OTA from Lookout by late summer 2004.

I have an LG LST-3410A, and it will not record KDVR-DT, but it will record anything else just fine. Aside from the fact it's the only 720P station I can receive, I can't think of anything else that could cause it. Can anyone else?

My LG LST-3410A won't record KDVR-DT (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=493746)

Originally posted by AkaStp
Do you have any pics of how it all looks from the street? ... Btw, how well do you get along with your neighbors sporting such a monstrosity on your roof? ;)
Probably the same way I do, None of your business! I have a short tower that generated talk around the 'covenanted' subdivision(among the 'code enforcers' and other 'busy bodies'). We had an ongoing battle that started when the house was being built, so I covered my butt:
There was nothing in the covenants concerning Antennas or Towers
HaHaHa, GOTCHA! Since they were in the 'attack mode' since we broke ground, I didn't care, but if I acccidently pissed as many of them off as possible, GOOD!.

I have a real problem with people who think that it's their business to mess with your business.
....jc

Medium was not in HD tonight & I'd like to know why.:mad:

Just curious...with all this modern technology that we have...why do we need an actual person to switch on the HD programming?? You would think it would be an automatic thing. They know ahead of time what shows are broadcast in HD...it's not like it's a last minute surprise.

Does anyone know the answer to why it has to be switched manually?

Ha ha I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed. Channel 9 does this all the time. Usually they show the first part of Jay Leno in SD, then they wake up and restore the HD after the commercial break. You can e-mail 9News engineer Don Perez at don.perez@9news.com or you can just send general comments to kusa@9news.com , which is what I just did. Their web site also still lists Conan O'Brien as being an HD show, and also says it starts at 11:35. Damn, my watch must somehow gain a half hour between 11:34 and 11:35. :)

Originally posted by musiclover408
Just curious...with all this modern technology that we have...why do we need an actual person to switch on the HD programming?? You would think it would be an automatic thing. They know ahead of time what shows are broadcast in HD...it's not like it's a last minute surprise.

Does anyone know the answer to why it has to be switched manually?

Because, if it's anything like things are done down in New Mexico. KUSA has to delay programming by one hour on an HD server then play it back. If something goes wrong in recording the feed during the first hour and no one noticed, you lost an hour or more. At the same time they might have to delay prime time as well depending on if NBC provides a Mountain feed, they used to 2 years ago. But I heard they were dropping it, or a good portion, and letting the affiliates delay most. The HD portion may be on an entirely different system from their main switching, being slaved to it. But sometimes the slaved side gets confused, or they go to an alternate (backup) source and that's not duplicated on the HD side. So you get the SD down convert. All kinds of things can screw it up, and it's probably the same guy who was switching their master control when all they had was SD to deal with then. They don't add staff to do HD, if anything the sales guy for the automation system probably sold them on the idea of using the same staff size and possibly downsizing the staff because their system is great. While the supervisor who sold the management on the new system got an expense paid trip from the manufacture of the automation system. This is not far from the truth that goes on.

mdamberger, same thing happens in movieland as in TV land. They are always trying to do the job cheaper and not necessarily better. Sometimes they need to stop and think what the reason is for people to go to movies or watch TV. People don't go to theaters to see the sparkling clean concession stand, they go to see the movie. The movie and it's presentation are the most important things in the building, and I feel the same way about TV land. When they downsize staff or hire less-qualified (re: cheaper) people to do it, I get fairly upset.

Yeah, "Medium" was not in HD for me either last night.
Stupid letter box with huge grey side bars makes the image tiny on my screen.

It was particularly ironic when some wizbang flashy text at the bottom of the screen advertises:

"Presented in High Definition Dolby 5.1! Wide Screen Format!"


Next time I'll email the engineer and cross my fingers.

Anyone have contact info for the other network channels when they forget to flip the switch?

For any station, call the 24 hour news line noted in the Yellow Pages and ask to speak to engineering to "flip the HD switch." Usually works. KUSA has been the worst lately. I would bet somebody on the staff got fired or replaced.

I just received a note from Don Perez at KUSA saying that their HD server failed last night, hence the SD broadcast of Medium. They've been working at getting it replaced all day today, and now have it back up and running. He also said that he was pretty upset at having to watch Medium in SD last night as well. :)

:) Well that's the reason. Cool, glad they got it fixed!

Thanks for the info.:)

Strange thing is though. It crashed exactly in between Las Vegas & Medium. Hummmm?

Las Vegas in HD last night was really nice... especially the 'girls night out' scenes :cool:

Originally posted by Couch Patato
:) Well that's the reason. Cool, glad they got it fixed!

Thanks for the info.:)

Strange thing is though. It crashed exactly in between Las Vegas & Medium. Hummmm?

And another strange thing happened - 9-2 started.

Yeah, just picked up 9-2.

Seems to be a looping advertisement for some kind of A/V computer for broadcasters.

9-2? That's just great. Hat's off for the quick server fix. Hat's back on for 9-2 which is the key to HD lite.

9-2 is no surprise to many of us. Last year when we toured there, Roger Ogden mentioned they were going to roll-out a 24hr weather channel. Kind of a TWC in reverse (more local and less national) I guess it's time to get the technology side started.

Originally posted by santellavision
9-2 is no surprise to many of us. Last year when we toured there, Roger Ogden mentioned they were going to roll-out a 24hr weather channel. Kind of a TWC in reverse (more local and less national) I guess it's time to get the technology side started.
Gee, must have 'missed' that tour of KUSA last year! Can't imagine why I would have missed it! :mad:
I still see Leno is not in HD so far, but 9-2 is sure coming in strong. Maybe they just decided that using some bandwidth for that second channel is far more important than using the bandwidth for HD. After all, nobody important watches HD on KUSA, but that 24 hour weather channel, now there's a real viewer draw.
Am I the only one that is just plain disgusted with the operations at KUSA and KMGH?????

Edited @ 11:00PM
Wow, got to be the lead post on two pages in a row, maybe its time to buy that lottery ticket.

They switched the HD back on after the first comercial break on Leno. Someone is asleep at the wheel over there.

Mark - do you still have a way to measure the bitrate KUSA is sending on 9-1 and 9-2?

jm - we definitely let Roger Ogden know what we thought about a subchannel in terms of quality on the main channel. From what I remember, he seemed sympathetic to the issue of PQ on the main channel. They didn't spend all the money and effort to get their news in HD to make it look the same as it did in SD. That said, he was still pushing the -2 weather subchannel as a viable solution, so we know where his priorities really are.