My wonderful stretch-o-vision! How could you Mark? How?? :)

I can’t believe it only takes one person to get KDVR to do something; I talked to them about playing that highly compressed music during “Big video�. I told them it sounded like they were downloading music samples from Amazon.com and it was very unprofessional. And boom, the next newscast they were playing CD quality music.

Let's hear for Fox 31 for acting so fast.

Thanks KDVR!!!

Thaks to KWGN & Dave TOO!!!!!!!!!

Well, I'll believe KWGN's problems are solved after watching Smallville tonight...but yeah, I was pretty surprised at KDVR's quick action as well. I figured it would take multiple emails over a period of days, followed by phone calls to get them to switch back. :)

Hmm, Don Rooney over at KWGN emailed me last night and said he DID see jittering last night.

I never saw it; but maybe I’m just so used to it I can’t see it anymore.

I don't know how you couldn't see it. It's bad enough (or at least was) to cause an epileptic fit.

I have been dealing with the 'jitters' from KMGH since I put in my HD receiver (+/- 1 1/2 yrs). But the weird part is that it is only when they transmit a 'local' SD signal. It's nice and steady in HD and from a network SD feed (well, as steady as their whisper signal can be locked). It is a vertical jigging type movement. Very distracting.

I know, there are only about three people who can actually see a KMGH. But I'm thinking it is most likely an incompatibility with certain receivers. I've only heard a couple of mentions about this problem, undoubtedly since nobody can get it.

Simple fix... Don't watch anything on ABC. Well, just 'Lost'.

And for a little longer, Monday Night Football.

And... ahem... Hockey... Careful...

The NHL and kmgh... a perfect match!
:rolleyes:

OT: I went to game 1 of the Eagles championship series last night and they won 2-1!! The game was carried by Altitude, but not HD (at least as far as I know)

Originally posted by mknoebel
I went to game 1 of the Eagles championship series last night and they won 2-1!! OT: Did you see the Cat Rental Store animated ad on the graphic screen? I made that! It was my first foray into animating graphics for jumbo-tron's!

Originally posted by santellavision
OT: Did you see the Cat Rental Store animated ad on the graphic screen? I made that! It was my first foray into animating graphics for jumbo-tron's!

Ernie,

I didn't notice it, but congratulations on getting it on the jumbotron! Maybe if there is a game six or seven!!

Originally posted by ByH2O
I have been dealing with the 'jitters' from KMGH since I put in my HD receiver (+/- 1 1/2 yrs). But the weird part is that it is only when they transmit a 'local' SD signal. It's nice and steady in HD and from a network SD feed (well, as steady as their whisper signal can be locked). It is a vertical jigging type movement. Very distracting.

I know, there are only about three people who can actually see a KMGH. But I'm thinking it is most likely an incompatibility with certain receivers. I've only heard a couple of mentions about this problem, undoubtedly since nobody can get it.

Simple fix... Don't watch anything on ABC. Well, just 'Lost'.

And for a little longer, Monday Night Football.

And... ahem... Hockey... Careful...

This has been going on forever with KMGH Ch. 7. I know they have been e-mailed about this alot. As far as I know they have never done anything to fix it & probably don't care to.

Now KWGN ch.2 is a different story all together & probably different technical problem too. They do care! I did not see any Jittering tonight during Smallville.:)

Originally posted by santellavision
OT: Did you see the Cat Rental Store animated ad on the graphic screen? I made that! It was my first foray into animating graphics for jumbo-tron's!

Why would anyone want to rent a cat?
I'll give you ours. She dosen't eat much and will only watch the HD television.

Hey, I would be happy to rent a cat to catch the mice in my basement. :)

Thanks to Ernie there is programming available for the only form of HDTV available to most in Colorado - Jumbo-tron :D

Originally posted by Couch Patato
Now KWGN ch.2 is a different story all together & probably different technical problem too. They do care! I did not see any Jittering tonight during Smallville.:)
Thanks Dave (and everyone else) at KWGN!

Also thanks to the technical staff at KDVR for getting rid of that nasty, nasty distort-o-vision!

(Who'd've thunk WB and Fox would be our local leaders in DTV? Come on UPN - oh wait, Enterprise has been cancelled. Never mind...)

But UPN is a part of LCG, so we won't be seeing a digital signal from them for a loooong time.

... 85 days 'til the hearing

And thanks to all of you!

Without your valuable input we may not be aware of issues pertaining to our OTA HD transmission.

Thanks again!!

Dave Martinez
WB2 Colorado

So it's really fixed? What was the problem?

Sorry if this is a n00bish question....

Does anyone know if the Nuggies Playoff games are going to be broadcast in HD? I just got my HD going a few months ago, and haven't followed the games since then.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott - TNT-HD has been broadcasting the 2 Nuggets playoff games so far. Saturday's game is supposed to be on ESPN, and then back to TNT next week.

And, Dave - thanks for jumping on this! I was a little worried when I tuned to KWGN last night at 6:30 and got 0 signal strength! Looks like it was back before 7, though as my Smallville recordings did take place. :)

Wow! I finally made top of page!!!

The problem was with the GOP length on our new HD encoder. Adjustments were made and it looks like the results were positive.

Mark,

I don't know why you had "0" signal strength last night. I watched most of the evening with no problems OTA. ???

Also,
It looks like the closed caption issue is resolved as well....

Dave Martinez
WB2 Colorado

Originally posted by Sandwedg
Sorry if this is a n00bish question....

Does anyone know if the Nuggies Playoff games are going to be broadcast in HD? I just got my HD going a few months ago, and haven't followed the games since then.

Thanks,
Scott

Here is a great website that lists all HD sports broadcasts.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/index.php

Altitude has broadcast an HD feed for the Nuggets games for most of the year on Comcast but it has not been on DirecTv. If you have cable, the Altitude HD feed shows up on one of the INHD channels.

OT: Dish just announced 10 more HD channels starting May 1!

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=dish&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=703340

The Voom10 package, almost certainly sent from the 61.5 location, and we're hoping the 148 location as well.

Mark,
well, i was excited for about 5 minutes... I just heard from Mark Cicero at Dish, it will only be on the 61.5 bird. I'm screwed!

I honestly don't believe that Mark has the whole story yet. They may not show up on 148 tomorrow night at midnight, but I'm betting that by the end of next week, they'll be on 148 as well.

Of course, that's not going to stop me from trying to pick up 61.5 here this afternoon if I can go pick up my 24" dish that's waiting for me at the UPS Commerce City hub. Supposed to be delivered on Monday, but if they'll let me pick it up this afternoon, I might have a chance at 61.5 this weekend...assuming the snow doesn't start up again that is.

Hey Mark, were did you order your 24 incher from? I'm using a puny 300 for my 61.5 since all I get from there now is NY. Thinking I might want to bolster that with all of the new HD coming. I might need to break out the spray paint again though! ;)

Wow, what a week. Ended Fox31's stretch-o-vision, fixed WB2's HD jitter, restored KUSA's DTV signal to previous strength level, and now more HD possible from "no compelling content available" E*. It's like DTV nirvana. Oh, I forgot about not being able to watch MNF or the 2006 SB.

E* cracks me up. Up until a few months ago I was using them for just the HD Pack with my 6000 (had switched to Comcast for everything else a while before that) but then my 8PSK module bit the dust and so I just cancelled E* altogether because I wasnt really watching their channels anyway.

Well now I call back talking about re-subbing to the HD Pack (thinking I might like it if they add these new channels) and needing to get a new 8PSK, and even though if they'd give me a decent deal on the module they'd have me as a sub again, they said the best price they can do on the module is $99.00.. LOL gimme a break, I can get them off the web all day long for like $50-60.

But I dont really feel like even paying that much if I dont have to so if anyone has one laying around they wanna sell (or maybe trade for some low end a/v stuff I have laying around) or knows where I can get one a lil cheaper, let me know.

Originally posted by CEB II
Wow, what a week. Ended Fox31's stretch-o-vision, fixed WB2's HD jitter, restored KUSA's DTV signal to previous strength level, and now more HD possible from "no compelling content available" E*.

In addition Conan switched over to HD this week!

Originally posted by bikenski
In addition Conan switched over to HD this week! And add to that D* Spaceway F1 was launched Tuesday morning!

So are the new HD chanels going to be included in the HD pack? What sat is the current HD chanels on the 148*?

Curently, they are on both 148 and 61.5. But, the 10 new channels are only going to be on 61.5. And it sounds like they will be included in the HD pack.

Woohoo! I got my tuner working again! I cracked it open and had a look around and found a green tuning screw. I changed the channel to KDVR I turned the screw a little to the left and a “No signal� message popped up, I thought "Whoops". So naturally I tried turning it to the right and boom, a clear, break-up free KDVR appeared on my screen.

She’s working great now, I’ve never seen this thing tune into a channel and lock onto the audio stream so fast. Plus my program guide loads in two seconds now, amazing.

I’m so thrilled I don’t have to get a new box right now becasue I am waiting for the latest and greatest box I can get before the broadcast flag stuff starts in July.

Originally posted by Jetlag
Hey Mark, were did you order your 24 incher from? I'm using a puny 300 for my 61.5 since all I get from there now is NY. Thinking I might want to bolster that with all of the new HD coming. I might need to break out the spray paint again though! ;)

I ordered it from Dish Depot (www.dishdepot.com), Tim. I wasn't able to get it yesterday, so it'll go up on Monday.

Word is now on the Voom channels that they are going to be either an extra $5 a month or $10 a month, and you must sub to the HD Package for $9.99 a month to get them.

Interesting story in the Post today (inside cover): "Towns can't call shots on cell-tower placement".

It's a good-news story about how local zoning officials said no to a cell tower. Then Verizon's lawyers invoked a federal telecomunications law, which allows them to ask either a state or federal court to overturn a local zoning decision to reject a tower if that decision has the effect of prohibiting the provision of cellphone services.

Hey sCARE, I'm sure this would apply to tv towers as well!

(Top of the page - WooHoo!)

Ernie,
I also saw that article and have seen others like it over the past 2 years. It seems that the cell phone companies regularly request state or federal courts to overturn local zoning decisions when it is clear that the decisions have a detrimental effect on the greater population. These phone companies have met with sucess by using the whole "denial of service" argument. The precedent has been established and should be applicable to our tower problem. It would be interesting to see if the cell phone companies have been successful in Colorado and how they did it.

Unfortunately, the LCG group does not have compelling motivation to pursue this approach. LCG is content to have JeffCo commissioners and judges be the bad guys while they are able to delay the significant expenditures it would require to complete the tower project. Why should LCG petition the FCC or state courts to overturn local zoning decisions when it will cost them them a considerable amount of money sooner than later?

The common perception has been that the FCC is reluctant to intervene in local zoning decisions. This does not hold true as it relates to cell phone towers. Why wouldn't the FCC be inclined to overturn a local zoning decison in the 18th ranked DMA with 1.4 million households? I believe the answer is that no one has asked them to.

It is clear that the current political winds are blowing towards a certain analog cutoff date that is sooner than later. This will increase the pressure on the local broadcasters to find a solution to this problem. If the FCC is not willing to interfere with local zoning rules, perhaps they will require LCG to offer an alternative solution (new site) because they will HAVE to provide a digital signal by XXXX date.

Must be Cell Tower Sunday! The NY Times published this article: First Come Cellphone Towers, Then the Babel. SOS, small town fights to keep towers out. Would any laws help us? Probably not. Todays laws were written with the Corporations in mind(and $$$ in the right places).

You know that this forum is in a downward spiral, when the biggest thrill here, is getting the 1st post on a page:(
....jc

Originally posted by ByH2O

Simple fix... Don't watch anything on ABC. Well, just 'Lost'.

And for a little longer, Monday Night Football.

And... ahem... Hockey... Careful...

Although KMGH/ABC don't seem to care, my solution is this: Since I get my TV through D*, and depend on the local OTA DTV broadcasts for network programming, and since KMGH refuses to broadcast a digital signal at a strength stronger than my FRS radios, I email them often and tell them about how I watch the shows I watch from ABC(currently only "Lost"). Since I don't get a digital OTA signal, I record lost in standard def. on my Ultimate TV unit. That way, I can skip all the commercials. If they want to market to me, they are going to have to get me to watch shows "live" in HD.

They won't do anything for me, I won't watch their ads. Enough said.

I am new to this, and i have been TRYING to get a OTA setup for my hdtv, i'm in fort collins, and i have tried indoor antennas and they don't work. I use directv and been trying through their hdtv receiver with the two antennas i have, one rca on phillips, and can't get a strong enough signal. how much signal strength do you need to get the thing to work, and should i switch antennas? is there one that is known to work, and also, should i switch to outdoor antenna? i'm lost and tired of missing the programs i want to see in HD. I have seen as high as 78 signal strength. is there any additional steps i could take to get some of these channels in? thanks for the help

Golfer,

You will have to install an outdoor antenna to have any luck at receiving a good signal from Denver. You should be able to get Fox's Ft Collins HD transmitter and most likely some signals from Cheyenne (I think CBS is HD). Guys have had good luck with some of the bigger Yagi antennas from RS, Channel-master and others. Oh, and don't worry about any HOA rules on antennas, they cannot stop you, its the law.

Check this tread for others in your area and what they are able to receive. We're all pretty friendly, send them a PM and ask what equipment works for them.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587&highlight=denver+data

Originally posted by golfer80525
I am new to this, and i have been TRYING to get a OTA setup for my hdtv, i'm in fort collins, and i have tried indoor antennas and they don't work. I use directv and been trying through their hdtv receiver with the two antennas i have, one rca on phillips, and can't get a strong enough signal. how much signal strength do you need to get the thing to work, and should i switch antennas? is there one that is known to work, and also, should i switch to outdoor antenna? i'm lost and tired of missing the programs i want to see in HD. I have seen as high as 78 signal strength. is there any additional steps i could take to get some of these channels in? thanks for the help

Golfer,

I'm in Fort Collins. I tried indoor antennas, and the only glimpse of a signal came from channel 2 with a Silver Sensor. After trying a few rooftop options, I have found the Channel Master 4228 to be my best option. With the directional grid removed from the antenna, which makes it bidirectional, I consistently get:

2-1 KWGN-WB
5-1 KGWN-CBS (Cheyenne)
12-1 PBS (DT, not HD)
12-2 PBS Kids (DT, not HD)
12-3 PBS You (DT, not HD)
31-1 KDVR Fox

There was a time I got a broken up signal from 9-1, but I get a mere blip on the meter now. It could vary by location on that one. The only way I can get the Fort Collins repeater for Fox is to point directly at it. It's not necessary, because with this antenna, the signal on 31 is strong enough.

John

I live in Ft. Collins near Harmony Road. I have a Silver Sensor also, but I can get:

12-1 PBS DT
12-2 PBS DT
12-3 PBS DT
31 FOX

Since I could not get the OTA HD channels out of Denver, Directv gave me the West Coast feed for CBS and FOX.

Originally posted by John Boy
I live in Ft. Collins near Harmony Road. I have a Silver Sensor also, but I can get:

12-1 PBS DT
12-2 PBS DT
12-3 PBS DT
31 FOX

Since I could not get the OTA HD channels out of Denver, Directv gave me the West Coast feed for CBS and FOX.

D* never did give me the Fox feed. Did you have special circumstances, or did they just turn it on at your request?

Call DirecTv and request it. Ft. Collins is considered to be in a network owned and operated market and should be eligible to receive the west coast network feeds from CBS and FOX. If they give you any trouble, point them to these pages on their own website.

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/cbs_hd.html

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/fox_hd.html

Originally posted by Iwanthd
Call DirecTv and request it. Ft. Collins is considered to be in a network owned and operated market and should be eligible to receive the west coast network feeds from CBS and FOX. If they give you any trouble, point them to these pages on their own website.

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/cbs_hd.html

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/fox_hd.html

Thanks for the advice, but I tried again and got nowhere again. He even went to the web site and pointed out that it says MAY. He'll submit waivers and "turn it on if they can." Same thing they told me last time, and then nothing.

If Comcast ever get their act together here, I am done with D*.

Us folks up north can't get Fox because we fall in the Cheyenne, WY Fox viewing area - even though the aren't broadcasting in HD.

And it's sounding like the Denver locals may be up on D* by the end of the year. Even with a few waiver problems here and there, I still think they are a better option that comcast.

I know about the Cheyenne station, but John Boy lives right near me, and he says he got it, and so have others. It's not too important because I get KDVR. I'd just like to have the time-shifting opportunity if available.

Long-term, you're probably right about D* over Comcast. I'm just looking for networks in HD (which D* will have, maybe by the end of the year?) and better SD quality. I haven't heard anything official about Comcast and HD in northern Colorado, but someone here was saying it would be soon. I'll believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by jpco
D* never did give me the Fox feed. Did you have special circumstances, or did they just turn it on at your request?

I just gave them a call, and the tech hooked me up for both. She must have been having a good day.:)

Originally posted by jpco
I know about the Cheyenne station, but John Boy lives right near me, and he says he got it, and so have others. It's not too important because I get KDVR. I'd just like to have the time-shifting opportunity if available.

Long-term, you're probably right about D* over Comcast. I'm just looking for networks in HD (which D* will have, maybe by the end of the year?) and better SD quality. I haven't heard anything official about Comcast and HD in northern Colorado, but someone here was saying it would be soon. I'll believe it when I see it.

The last thing I heard about Comcast with HD, was that they were near Longmont. I think I read it on one of these forums. If they are only near Longont, then it may be years before they get to Ft. Collins.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3753062,00.html

Based on the following paragraph it appears as a delay only if LCG can prove there will not be a collapse.

Jackson's latest ruling said the order sending the case back to commissioners "is a limited one" and if evidence that failure of the planned tower would not endanger homes is presented, "then the Court will lift the stay and deny a permanent injunction."

Originally posted by Lawood
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3753062,00.html Thanks Leonard.

The issue may be narrow but it was referred back to the County Commissioners, all three of which are new, and all three of which have said they oppose said towers.

We may as well write this off - it is DOA.

Originally posted by Geof
Thanks Leonard.

The issue may be narrow but it was referred back to the County Commissioners, all three of which are new, and all three of which have said they oppose said towers.

We may as well write this off - it is DOA.

I hear you Geof. Yes. This could be interesting especially considering the only issue to be reviewed is tower stability. As we see it that shouldn't be hard, but you are right about the commisioners.
Leonard

LCG........RIP!

Game, Set, Match! It's over folks, there is no way the current group of commisioners are going to pass this one back with an approval. All we can do now is wait until there are enough HD viewers such that the stations can swap their SD signal for an HD signal from the existing towers. Of course I have never been convinced the LCG members would be all that upset by that possiblility.

I understand the pessimism regarding the current commissioners approving the tower for a third time. On the other hand, because they are only addressing the issue of tower collapse, shouldn't this be relatively easy for LCG to rebut? Of all the issues that LCG has had to respond to over the years, this one seems to be the most clear. The ramifications of a tower collapse and LCG's mitigation efforts are fairly cut and dried. This issue is not subject to the same interpretation vagaries as the radiation and RF studies. Here's to hoping that LCG can demonstrate that the surrounding homes will be safe in the event of a tower failure and we can finally begin to move forward on this project.

No, because there is no date for the JeffCo commissioners to address the issue, and all they have to do is never schedule it and LCG dies by default.

Even if they do schedule it, it's trivial for them to ask "Is there any chance whatsoever that if this tower failed, it could hit another tower or strike an object that could strike another tower?" The answer of course is yes, anything is possible, and boom, tower denied.

This way SCARE wins, the JeffCo commisioners win, and Judge Jackson gets to look somehow "fair." ("I said this was the last issue, it's not my fault...")

It's over, game, set, match goes to SCARE, and Denver viewers suffer as a result (so what else is new.)

LCG is toast as is any hope for full power DTV in Denver this decade. (You don't honestly believe the folks behind SCARE don't know there's money to be made running the same scam anywhere else a tower might be placed, do you?)

Turn out the lights, the parties over... :mad:

I don't care if LCG now proposed making the tower and guy wires out of foam and calling it a "Nerf" antenna, no-way it will get sent back to the Judge. It will be killed by the new commissioners.

I'm sure the false evidence that Deb (et. al.) will come up with will liken the potential damage caused by the (extremely remote) possibility of tower failure to be equal to the damage caused by the eruption of Krakatau.

At least Denver can remain #1 as the largest television market without full power HDTV for some time to come.

"We're number 1, we're number 1,..."

I like where Deb said "our community could sustain irreparable injury". OK, so what you are saying is that none of the structures on Lookout could possibly be repaired if they were ever damaged??? Aren't they pretty much the same as every other house in Denver with the exception that most are owned by greedy land speculators operating under the guise of 'concern for the community'?

Time to change the thread title to "Denver, CO - D.O.A."

Hold it! Wait! Hang on!
:eek:

I just remembered, I have a letter from the KMGH lawyers who said for sure they would be on the air by now. They obviously know something we don't know. After all, they would be doing a disservice to the community if they were to lie about something like that just so KMGH wouldn't have to provide something more than a coat hanger for a transmit antenna.
:rolleyes:

Yes, of course the LCG can provide all the engineers they want that prove that the tower could not come down on someone else's property, but all the (S)CARE folks have to do is bring out one engineer that says, "Gee, I don't think there is a 100% guarantee it couldn't happen if there was 10 inches of ice on the tower and then suddenly there was a wind from the North-west blowing at about 100 mph, after all this IS Colorado. If that should ever happen at the same time, the tower could land five feet off the property, and if there was a two year old child standing there holding his 8 month old brother, they could both be killed. After all, we MUST think of the children." After that the commissioners could all vote against anything.

RIP LCG!

From the article...
Jefferson County District Court Judge R. Brooke Jackson sent the case back to county commissioners for review of a single point: whether failure of the proposed tower could cause a domino effect, leading existing towers to collapse and endanger residences.
If this point is stated accurately, yup DOA. Now it's a 'Domino' effect. And, could it happen? Absolutely, just about anything could happen.

This morning I talked with renowned tower expert, Mr. Guy Wire. Mr. Wire, an expert from Norway, stated that anything that is within range of any guy wire(no relation) on the property is at risk of damage. So, the danger has existed at the site for years, and the addition of one more tower would not substantially increase the risk. He also stated that the lack of HD content, has been found to cause an increase of mental illness in Norway. His explanation was that if you spend your life looking at 'fuzz', it dulls the senses, and prolonged exposure to 'fuzz', will eventually decrease a person's IQ.

....jc

OK. Lets just continue to use the existing towers. What to say that under the right circumstances one of them could collapse.

One paragraph from the post.
Quote on.
Judge Jackson said one key point remains unresolved: whether the new tower could fall onto the current channel 4 tower, which might fall on an occupied home that sits 200 feet from the base.
Quote off
Just what does this mean? During construction. We all know eventually the ch 4 tower is coming down.

Isn't the house in question the one owned by the Channel 4 transmitter engineer? I forgot his name but he pointed out his house during the tour of the transmitter after LCGII was approved.

Lets see how many years ago was that? :(

Originally posted by Lawood
OK. Lets just continue to use the existing towers. What to say that under the right circumstances one of them could collapse.

One paragraph from the post.
Quote on.
Judge Jackson said one key point remains unresolved: whether the new tower could fall onto the current channel 4 tower, which might fall on an occupied home that sits 200 feet from the base.
Quote off
Just what does this mean? During construction. We all know eventually the ch 4 tower is coming down. If it were as simple as that then LCG could put the resident of that home up an the Ritz or some other fancy high falutin hotel for the time period in quesiton. Bottom line is the SCARE folks have managed to baffle the Judge with BS once again and now they'll get a favorable vote (for them) with three anti-tower commissioners. The fat lady is a singin......"turn out the lights, the party's over"......

When is the analog cut-off date? or is there really one even set. If not the general public isn't going to go out and spend thousands on a HDTV.

I have to say that as much as I dislike SCARE and attorney Carney I can see that she's a much better lawyer than the lying bastard hired by KMGH or any LCG attorney. These stations have lost most of their battles against SCARE and even though the Morrison project was approved, and the SCARE appeal lost, there is no sign of that project anywhere on the horizon.

It was supposed to be Dec. 31st 2006. But it will most likely be around 2008-2009, which, of course, is incredibly bad news for us.

I've updated my signature appropriately... :(

I just got home and read the news... I agree with everyone, It's over. :(

Well, it was fun while it lasted… wait, no it wasn’t!

I guess the only tiny bit of good news in all of this is that they (SCARE) are stuck with the current tower configuration forever.

I was thinking the same thing. That they are so stupid that now they're stuck with all those onmi-directional antennas on Lookout forever, but after winning this round, i'm not sure if they're stupid or smart?

I AM sure, they'll figure out a way to get another court injunction to halt transmitting when the stations try the 'NTSC/ATC Change-out'. I can sense those evil thoughts even as I type this!

Originally posted by Jetlag
I guess the only tiny bit of good news in all of this is that they (SCARE) are stuck with the current tower configuration forever.

The 'funny' part about that is that with the old towers they are radiated at higher levels than they would be with the new tower, and also I would be willing to be that one of the old 'unimproved' towers has a greater chance of falling than a new tower, especially since (S)CARE won't allow any upgrades to the existing hardware.

There has to be a lot of joy and excitement at the KMGH studios too, just think how much they will save by not transmitting OTA HD for another 3 years, and then when they finally do transmit HD they can shut off the SD. It's a win, win situation for all of the LCG members.

This pretty much cements the image of Denver as an old fashion 'cow town' out west.


I guess the only "real" losers in all of this are.........well, I think that has already been stated....we're number 1, the most backward 'hi-tech' city in America. Wish I could round up enough enthusiasm for a cheer!

Who is to say the judge can't over ride the commissioners again. So far he has done it twice. Maybe just maybe if this group of commissioners vote against it he will over ride them again. The final decision as for lifting the injunction will come from him.
If you look at why he rejected the previous commissioners 3-0 votes is because certain conditions were not met or construction (still is) was not proven to his satisfaction be safe.
If LCG can prove there construction is secure and safe this time I would think the judge in all rights would need to buy into it even if the commissioners see otherwise.

Originally posted by Lawood
Who is to say the judge can't over ride the commissioners again. So far he has done it twice. Maybe just maybe if this group of commissioners vote against it he will over ride them again. The final decision as for lifting the injunction will come from him.
If you look at why he rejected the previous commissioners 3-0 votes is because certain conditions were not met or construction (still is) was not proven to his satisfaction be safe.
If LCG can prove there construction is secure and safe this time I would think the judge in all rights would need to buy into it even if the commissioners see otherwise. Hope springs eternal Leonard - what you say is possible. But I fear otherwise. Nothing about this has made any sense and what you say makes sense.

BTW, I wouldn't bet a plug nickel against SCARE stopping the stations from converting their existing towers for HD. They've already won the argument that ATSC is not the same service as NTSC and if they take the stations to court I have no doubt the stations better hire better legal beagles than they have now or they will be SOL.

I'm no lawyer (but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express) There might be the chance that if the LCG proves their side, beyond a reasonable doubt, they could always appeal the commissioners decision to another court, just like sCARE did with Judge Jackson over the previous comish's decision.

Oh the stations will start to really care one day (when the FCC threatens to pull their licences or they figure out they are losing significant money), and when that happens they will hire the best lawyers. I still predict ATSC from the current NTSC towers, but the cell tower cases are interesting.

BTW I have no idea when that 'one day' will occur, but I my guess not until late 2007.

I am not sure this is the final nail, but I figure at least another 6 months delay.

Originally posted by ADent
Oh the stations will start to really care one day (when the FCC threatens to pull their licences or they figure out they are losing significant money), and when that happens they will hire the best lawyers.

That would be Edward W. Hummers, Jr. of the law offices of Holland & Knight LLP.

Don

This is just amazing. I think I'm going to continue what I have been doing all along, boycotting ABC and UPN. With MNF moving to ESPN and SNF to NBC, I will never watch ABC again in the foreseeable future. The thought of NBC's HD football kinda scares me, but anything has got to be better than the big fat O that I have been getting from KMGH.

Well I guess I'll be able to save my $ on an HDTV. Plus it gives a chance for the technology to mature. Thanks SCARE! Of course there's always cable or satellite.

Originally posted by sunshinedawg
With MNF moving to NBC...
I thought MNF was moving to ESPN and NBC was going to show the Sunday Night showcase game. Isn't that right?

Well that sucks. Or does it?

Let's see... KMGH can eat a @#@!. I have no problems getting KRMA, KWGN, KDVR, KCNC and KUSA. (s)CARE is stuck with big, ugly old towers that send RF into their brains and more importantly decrease their property value. And, did I mention KMGH can eat a #@$!?

I am SO glad ABC lost MNF. Maybe I would care about Lost if it was possible for me to watch it in HD, but since I can't, I've never seen it and never will.

Oh, and Leonard, I admire your optimisim!

Originally posted by weldon
I thought MNF was moving to ESPN and NBC was going to show the Sunday Night showcase game. Isn't that right?

yeah, you're right, I meant to say SNF, corrected, thanks



Originally posted by dcpoppy
I am SO glad ABC lost MNF. Maybe I would care about Lost if it was possible for me to watch it in HD, but since I can't, I've never seen it and never will.

I second that

What is with KCNC and CSI? For the second week in a row, either they or CBS has messed up big time.

Last week, coming out of a commercial break, we got about two minutes of Survivor rather than CSI.

This week, coming out of Survivor, instead of the first six minutes of CSI, we somehow got Without a Trace instead!

I must be the only one that actually watches CSI in HD, as I don't recall anyone here complaining about this last week, and tonight's foul up just plain destroyed the entire story line (thankfully, I record the SD feed as well just in case of HD issues like this.)

Then again, KUSA didn't bother flipping the HD switch until ER returned from its first commercial break tonight, either…

I don't think that the LCG project is completely dead at this point. However, I'm not sure this is a good thing.

I'm sure LCG will go through the process at JeffCo again. The LCG project continues to be the best solution for the stations and they are likely to stick with it to the end, where the "end" is some type of absolue approval or rejection.

If LCG were killed outright, I think (speculate) that a lot of focus might switch to Mt. Morisson, which can probably accomodate the digital transmitters for at least some of the LCG stations. Their analog and newsgathering equipment would probably remain on Lookout. This could be completed faster than continuing to pursue the LCG project.

Mark

Originally posted by mbuchana
...................

If LCG were killed outright, I think (speculate) that a lot of focus might switch to Mt. Morisson, which can probably accomodate the digital transmitters for at least some of the LCG stations. Their analog and newsgathering equipment would probably remain on Lookout. This could be completed faster than continuing to pursue the LCG project.

Mark
I really don't see that happening. The stations currently own their properties on Lookout. On Mt. Morrison they would be forced to lease space, as well as lose access to a whole lot of customers along the front range. I would see them 'fight to the death' to turn the NTSC transmitters into ATSC transmitters before they would ever start to look at Morrison.

I'm sure glad that I'm fortunate enough to have a "Canadian Vacation Home". I'll be holding onto that - at least until D* gets the locals up on their bird.

Originally posted by JMartinko
I would see them 'fight to the death' to turn the NTSC transmitters into ATSC transmitters before they would ever start to look at Morrison. This is a fight where the stations are in a very strong position, IMHO.

When the public sees sCARE in the position of preventing them from getting ANY over-the-air TV (as opposed to some special HD thing that few rich people want) then any sympathy for those nimbys will vanish overnight. Serves 'em right.

And while the transition will probably not happen on 1/1/07, it's obviously a lot closer than back when this whole controversy started.

Leonard, when do you think we will find out the new JeffCo public hearing dates?

'Ya know... after remembering the story about the Fed over-riding the local zoning, maybe there still is a glimmer of hope, if the new anti-tower Commissioners vote contrary to the facts.

I would be curious to hear any input from Pete Grinnell of LCG if he is still around. Was it markdl who used to have regular contact with him? drmal maybe?

Message sent to Pete. We'll see if/what he comes back with.

Congrats Ernie!

Since it now looks like the LCG stations will continue to use their omnidirectional antennas for the foreseeable future, when they switch to HDTV, you'll probably get it much more easily (well, not for a number of years, but maybe someday).

Of course, what about the stations that chose to stay on their new channel, can they go back to the FCC and say "oops, sorry, we meant we wanted to stay on our old channels and not switch"? It seems like SCARE could say, "see, it is different service, it's not even in the same RF band".

Originally posted by markdl
Message sent to Pete. We'll see if/what he comes back with.

Thanks Mark.

Originally posted by santellavision
Leonard, when do you think we will find out the new JeffCo public hearing dates?


Ernie. At this time no idea. I am sure they will ask the interested parties how much time they will need to prepare (for just one issue you wouldn't think a lot of time would be needed). Also probably need to know how far in advance the current schedule goes (however the first day last time was on a Thursday the normal hearing day is Tuesday). In fact I had no idea the judges latest decision came at time. May be the July 22nd date was moved up.

just one issue you wouldn't think a lot of time would be neededThanks Leonard.

I have to laugh though, the sCARE militia will be there in full force, no doubt. Al, mis-quoting the numbers again, Parents prostituting their children, Self-moving wheel-chairs, Talking toasters... it'll be a freakin' Carney-val.

I'm not a lawyer, but I also have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. The LCG project is dead if the JeffCo commissioners turn thumbs down. Judge Jackson will not overturn their decision because that isn't the case on which he is ruling.

If the LCG loses at JeffCo, Jackson will rule for SCARE and there will be a permanent injunction. The LCG can then appeal that decision on the merits of Jackson's handling of the case or file their own action in an appropriate venue to over-rule JeffCo. The latter is where the cell phone tower rulings could come into play. If the LCG filed in Federal court against JeffCo, the cell phone tower rulings would provide precedent and they would likely win. Who knows where it would go from there.

I agree that the most likely scenario is that the existing towers will change over from analog to digital to meet whatever Congress decides this year is the "drop dead" date for conversion. Scare could file suit at that time, but I think the FCC would step in or there would be a quick Federal court over-rule to make it happen. sCARE is playing a risky game and are likely to end up with the existing towers for the next 50 years.

Since I already receive all the OTA locals except KMGH, my personal response to this latest turn of events will be to experiment with an outdoor antenna this summer and see if I can somehow lock in KMGH's signal. The wife won't like that, but she also doesn't like my suggestion that we dump E* and go back to Comcast. I'm so PO'd I could chew nails!

You know what, the time is not to call defeat, now we need to get around it.

We need to make a petition to the Denver city council who has long banned tall transmitters on buildings to overturn this provision. With the current ability to broadcast a low power signal on top of Republic Plaza, this needs to turn into a full-power signal. The fact is, time is of the essence, Comcast and Echostar are most likely already working on a scare campaign, and some Denver stations could have their licenses revoked if they dont start broadcasting digital programming. By removing the provision against tall tower installations on buildings, it provides a relief to the stations.

The fact is, Jefferson County has become a permanent chokehold to the cause. To whatever sCARE has done to have their way has sadly worked, probably because they have been accepting donations from Comcast (wouldn't be surprised, that's a win-win situation for both of them). Mt. Morrison and Squaw Mountain are also Jefferson county, I don't see any improvement there.

And you know what, we may not like the end result, but of anything, wherever the full power signal comes from is better than no signal at all. Remember, with digital TV you either have a clear picture or no picture so location may not matter too much. And another thing is, rural and mountain communities have virtually always have had to use cable anyway and in all likelihood with over 25 years of cable networks existing, they will have a reason to keep their cable, good signal or not.

A federal appeals court said, "I don't think so", and the broadcast flag antipiracy regulation was struck down yesterday.

The unanimous ruling by the three-judge panel, in an important case at the intersection of intellectual property and technology, was a stinging rebuke for the Federal Communications Commission. The court said the commission exceeded its authority when it approved the rules in 2003....It was a significant victory for libraries, consumer groups and civil liberties organizations.

Maybe the FCC should worry about getting content on the air before trying regulate it. Just another case of our government siding with big business, but hahaha, it didn't work this time!

....jc

Why don't the Denver TV stations just go ahead and BUILD the tower anyway? Who cares what the P&Z people and their activist judges say?
I'm sure they could find a contractor who would be happy to build the site, if they gave him enough money!
There must be enough people in Denver who want to continue watching free OTA TV, to fight any cops who get in the way of the bulldozers! :)

Originally posted by kenglish
Why don't the Denver TV stations just go ahead and BUILD the tower anyway? Who cares what the P&Z people and their activist judges say?
I'm sure they could find a contractor who would be happy to build the site, if they gave him enough money!
There must be enough people in Denver who want to continue watching free OTA TV, to fight any cops who get in the way of the bulldozers! :)

Said in jest, I'm sure... but the LCG stations are still nursing their champaign hang-over after learning they now have another excuse to give the FCC - they should be able to get at least two 6 month extensions out of this. By that time, the analog shutoff date will be known, and they will be able to claim hardship to the FCC for having to buy that equipment for just a few short years. Unlike the rest of the country - we have some weaselly stations here. I just hope some day they achieve the smallness that they aspire to.

Originally posted by JackSpader
With the current ability to broadcast a low power signal on top of Republic Plaza, this needs to turn into a full-power signal.

Mt. Morrison and Squaw Mountain are also Jefferson county, I don't see any improvement there.

Welcome Jack,
Ok, first, the tall buildings downtown do not have the A/C power available to power full-power x-mitters. And that proposed new 50+ story building downtown, I'm sure wasn't designed for that use either.

Also, there would be a huge problem with interference and reflections from the front range if they were to broadcast from downtown. FYI, Squaw is not in Jefferson County. And as has been proven, broadcasting from Squaw would alienate everyone from Wadsworth west and all of Boulder. So, that's definately not a good solution.

Lookout is the only logical choice... as they figured out over 50 years ago. The Feds need to kick some ass and put sCARE in it's place.

I'm still having a problem with Judge Yahoo's ruling. Why would he send it back to the JCC for a guy wire issue especially when he sent it back there once before for the exact same thing? I recall John's post which went through the guy wire testimony step by step which, from an engineering standpoint should have put that to rest; how much more info and testimony is required?

I think I know the answer and it is the reason that I stated from the begiinning that the strategy here for Judge Jackson was to delay until the new board is in and then just pass the buck. That is why I thought that this was not a slam dunk, not even close. A judge can do whatever he wants in his own courtroom, even if it makes absolutely no sense at all, and that is what happened here. Done deal, dead LCG II.

Also, it will take a few years for them to figure out that if it is only a guy wire issue which affects only one or two houses, there is a concept called eminent domain to just buy the two houses and be done with it. They will do that just to round out a corner in a county road.

The feds will do nothing; they most certainly won't interfere. Tancredo will see to that.

Don

Originally posted by TotallyPreWired
A federal appeals court said, "I don't think so", and the broadcast flag antipiracy regulation was struck down yesterday.
All I know is if I were a content provider, I would stop making any of my product available in HD until the BF issue was revisited, but that's another discussion for another thread...

As far as the guy wire issue goes, I don't think it's the "same" issue; the previous issue was whether the guy wires were adequate, and this issue is whether the new tower could conceivably hit another tower were it to fail and cause a "domino effect" - not like that couldn't already happen on Lookout (sigh...)

Personally, if I were LCG, and I really cared (rather than saw this as a great excuse to put off spending for a full power DTV transmitter another few years), I'd paint the existing towers bright fluorescent pink just to tweak the homeowners some more...

There is really no question in my mind that this is very welcome news for the LCG stations. Let's face it, the Judge sent the case back to JeffCo over a year ago and JeffCo dealt with the matter and voted for it a second time last summer. If the LCG really wanted this passed they would have gotten it back on the Judges docket long before now. But they didn't want this to pass because it would mean they'd have to spend money building all new facilities. As it is this second referral to the BCC will be defeated and the FCC being the ball-less idiots that they are will just rubber stamp the Denver tower situation from now until changeover. And let's not fool ourselves, if SCARE tries to block them from using their existing towers for HD and forcing NO TV at all along the Front Range they will be rode out of town. The stations know they'll have all the momentum they'll need to get this resolved when they are good and ready. They won't be good any ready until it's time to switch or go off the air. And by then they'll be able to do it for pennies on the dollar compared to what the other 1500+ stations around the country had to spend because converting is far cheaper than building new.

I questioned this LCG arrangement years ago when Mark started the very first thread. Since the "big 3" are in cahoots (in the same boat) it means they really can sit back and laugh at this whole situation because the competition to best one another by getting on the air in full power is non-existant.

On the other hand, by the time the Denver stations have to build a tower, there's likely to be so much multicasting going on that people will see the artifacting, over compressed "mid definition" signals broadcast by then and ask "This is what all the fuss was about?"

Originally posted by kucharsk
All I know is if I were a content provider, I would stop making any of my product available in HD until the BF issue was revisited, The BF is a non-solution for a non-problem. Of course it would be nice (from the provider's perspective) to have complete control, but when has that ever been the case? Somehow the TV and movie industries have "survived"without such control.

My hunch is that threats of withholding HD content are a bluff by the content providers to get what they want, but frankly I don't care whether they are bluffing or not. I'm not willing to let them re-design the personal computer industry around their needs just so they'll let me watch Leno in HD.

If, when the time comes (i.e. the switchover date is imminent and your stations still don't have approval) - there's a very simple solution available to them to kick SCARE's butt - simply "shutoff" all content to all sources (cable and DBS as well) for 1 evening, during primetime, alternating with static and a placard that blames SCARE and says this is what will happen to TV in Denver if they aren't allowed to build their tower.

How many elected officials want to hear the outcry that will come from that ? This simple act will blowup SCARE's support.

I'd certainly consider it.

However - right now, the stations are probably laughing all the way to the bank.... So, some serious a$$ kicking from the FCC might also be in order - like some serious fines for not finding a solution to get on the air. And their hamster powered transmitters don't qualify - I mean, they don't mirror their analog coverage, do they ?

I’ve always wondered this, how did KWGN and KDVR get passed S.C.A.R.E.?

Originally posted by Symbios
I've always wondered this, how did KWGN and KDVR get passed S.C.A.R.E.?
The cynical might say there's one difference -- they wanted to.

In practical terms, their analog towers were newer and zoned properly(*). The analog towers for the LCG stations don't conform to current zoning regulations, but are grandfathered and able to continue operating as they are forever.

(*) In the case of KWGN, they had to do some recalculations and put their transmitter on a shorter auxiliary tower. That is, they wanted to get their digital signal on the air enough to bend the rules almost to the breaking point.

I need some help. I live at Ken Caryl and Kipling in Littleton. I have a 100'' UHF antenna on my roof pointing downtown. I was able to get all of the local digital channels.

My worst channels are KMGH at 65% and KDVR at 62% on my Dish 6000. After the last snow, I only get CBS at 60%. No other channels show up. I have adjusted the direction of the antenna and nothing happens. What might be going on?

Thanks,
Jason

Leaves?

It's possible.

That's what kills my signal every spring.

Bummer.

The seasons have never affected my signal reception in the past. I've had OTA probably for about 2 years.

jcardona,

Is it possible the snow built up and got water and corrosion into your cable connections?

Michael

You know what, the more I think about it, it would be better for the Denver stations to switch off analog before the deadline and switch to full power digital with existing towers, maybe before the end of this year. The way I'm seeing it, people without cable will have to save up for the DTV tuners eventually, and if the tower project ends up going nowhere, it's going to come down to two things, the future service the LCG stations can provide to Denver and much of Colorado based on FCC deadlines, and how important it is that they retain their commitments to the community.

People with cable and satellite won't mind this much, but something's just got to happen. Having to rely entirely on a low-power signal wont cut it, and we cannot allow Denver to be the first television market to become cable only. If there ever are any crazed investors out there that probably want to do an experiment like that, I fear this TV market would be selected based on you know what.

Besides, there are those of us that have chosen not to have cable for a reason. Either you cant afford it, TV is not that important to you, or in my case, the economics of it in why I should be forced to pay for Lifetime just to watch Comedy Central, or to pay extra for Cinemax when I can rent those movies on Netflix to watch on my own terms. Of course, TV (cable or broadcast) has to stay updated, and the way I see it, if you have something already there that you can work with, use that for the new thing and turn off what you're trying to get rid of in the first place. That's the whole point of this, move on in some form or another.

Originally posted by donyoop
I'm still having a problem with Judge Yahoo's ruling. Why would he send it back to the JCC for a guy wire issue especially when he sent it back there once before for the exact same thing? I recall John's post which went through the guy wire testimony step by step which, from an engineering standpoint should have put that to rest; how much more info and testimony is required?

I think I know the answer and it is the reason that I stated from the begiinning that the strategy here for Judge Jackson was to delay until the new board is in and then just pass the buck. That is why I thought that this was not a slam dunk, not even close. A judge can do whatever he wants in his own courtroom, even if it makes absolutely no sense at all, and that is what happened here. Done deal, dead LCG II.


Another way to look at it is that he could have ruled against LCG II the last time based on a lack of compelling evidence of tower failure issues. But instead he sent it back to make sure the BCC heard the evidence. Now, he sees another "hole" in the data, so he wants the BCC to hear more competent evidence on this issue. It seems to me that he wants to find a way to deny CARE's lawsuit, but cannot based on the facts presented to the BCC. In other words, at the last re-hearing, CARE mentioned that if the new tower fails while the old one is still up, it could cause the old one to fall onto a house. This would be against the zoning resolution, so the BCC would have to deny LCG's rezoning. Since LCG said nothing about this issue, the only "facts" on the issue are what CARE presented. So, if the judge wanted to prevent the tower, he could have simply ruled that LCG did not present any facts that rebutted CARE's arguements and said "zoning overturned", instead he said "present more facts". This is the second time he has done this, so he may very well be looking for a decision that cannot be overturned on appeal.

Just my 2 cents.

-Wabisabi

Originally posted by wabisabi
Another way to look at it is that he could have ruled against LCG II the last time based on a lack of compelling evidence of tower failure issues. But instead he sent it back to make sure the BCC heard the evidence. Now, he sees another "hole" in the data, so he wants the BCC to hear more competent evidence on this issue. It seems to me that he wants to find a way to deny CARE's lawsuit, but cannot based on the facts presented to the BCC. In other words, at the last re-hearing, CARE mentioned that if the new tower fails while the old one is still up, it could cause the old one to fall onto a house. This would be against the zoning resolution, so the BCC would have to deny LCG's rezoning. Since LCG said nothing about this issue, the only "facts" on the issue are what CARE presented. So, if the judge wanted to prevent the tower, he could have simply ruled that LCG did not present any facts that rebutted CARE's arguements and said "zoning overturned", instead he said "present more facts". This is the second time he has done this, so he may very well be looking for a decision that cannot be overturned on appeal.

Just my 2 cents.

-Wabisabi Well you could interpret the reason why LCG did not present those facts at the last BCC hearing was because they wanted another hole for SCARE to find so the decision is further delayed or overturned. Keep in mind the stations really don't want to spend money on new facilities when they can spend far fewer dollars converting their existing facilities. But they needed to get the FCC off their back so they merely went thru the motions.

Or it could just be that SCARE has found another reason for the Judge to refer it back to the county because that was their plan all along. They knew they'd have to delay any ultimate (final) decision until the anti-tower commissioners were in charge so holding "one last item" back from the first hearing bought them enough time to allow them to argue this latest tower falling on tower scenario with anti tower commissioners in charge.

Either way both sides were trying to buy time and "Judge Yahoo" bought into hook, line, and sinker.

SCARE wins, LCG wins, the FCC was hoodwinked, and we lose. Is anyone really surprised?

Originally posted by zanaberry
jcardona,

Is it possible the snow built up and got water and corrosion into your cable connections?

Michael

I haven't looked that closely at the connections. Do I need to replace all of my connections or can I take some rubbing alcohol to it?

Jason

Jason, I like to use a small wire brush to clean rusted connections, it usually does the trick.

I discovered my problem!!! The grounding wire came off of my antenna. Once I reconnected it, everything was back to normal!! Thank you all for your help.

Jason

Originally posted by Geof
Keep in mind the stations really don't want to spend money on new facilities when they can spend far fewer dollars converting their existing facilities. But they needed to get the FCC off their back so they merely went thru the motions.
:
:
SCARE wins, LCG wins, the FCC was hoodwinked, and we lose. Is anyone really surprised? And it may not be only sCARE and the LCG that would like this to drag out. The FCC may have an interest in the analog cutoff hard date being later than sooner also (see CBO Concerned About 2006 DTV Deadline (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=536655)). Add to that the CEA wanting to delay mandates requiring digital tuners in TV sets. With so much stacked against the public, it's amazing we have any DTV to watch at all!

Originally posted by Symbios
I’ve always wondered this, how did KWGN and KDVR get passed S.C.A.R.E.? The 4.6 acre KDVR-owned land is zoned Agricultural Special Use
The 1.3 acre KWGN-owned land is zoned Agricultural Non-Conforming
All the LCG land is zoned Mountain Residential 1 Non-Conforming

KDVR and KWGN had different issues to fight to be granted permits, and I'm sure sCARE tryied to stop them too. But it was a far different thing than the re-zoning LCG has to do.

Originally posted by RonAuger
KDVR and KWGN had different issues to fight to be granted permits, and I'm sure sCARE tryied to stop them too. But it was a far different thing than the re-zoning LCG has to do.
And, neither of them is broadcasting at full power yet. I recall an email that I received from one of them, and the person indicated that there were still 'issues' that needed to be resolved prior to full power broadcasting. My guess, is that it's sCARE related.
....jc

Originally posted by RonAuger
The 4.6 acre KDVR-owned land is zoned Agricultural Special Use
The 1.3 acre KWGN-owned land is zoned Agricultural Non-Conforming
All the LCG land is zoned Mountain Residential 1 Non-Conforming

KDVR and KWGN had different issues to fight to be granted permits, and I'm sure sCARE tryied to stop them too. But it was a far different thing than the re-zoning LCG has to do.

Actually, most of LCG's property is zoned Agricultural 2, with some of it being zoned Mountain Residential 1.

Also, KWGN's site also has a Special Use designation.

-Wabisabi

I heard back from Pete this morning. He says they aren't very happy with the turn of events, but that they feel they have a good case on the very narrow issue the judge wants the board to consider. They have no idea yet how long this will take, but he'll keep us posted. And, he wants to know if anyone knows of any cat herding jobs, he'd like to know about it, as he's pretty well qualified at this point.

Speaking of cats, ;) , Ernie, I saw your ad on Saturday. We went to the Bud Center for the Eagles Championship Celebration, and they were playing it on the scoreboards! It looked great!

Mark,
Thanks for the report from Pete @ LCG. I would be interested to hear his take on the cell phone companies success with overturning local zoning decisions by appealing to state or federal courts. I wonder if they have ever considered this approach?

Originally posted by Iwanthd
Mark,
Thanks for the report from Pete @ LCG. I would be interested to hear his take on the cell phone companies success with overturning local zoning decisions by appealing to state or federal courts. I wonder if they have ever considered this approach?
...or why they have not ALREADY tried this approach!

Originally posted by markdl
I heard back from Pete this morning. He says they aren't very happy with the turn of events, but that they feel they have a good case on the very narrow issue the judge wants the board to consider.
The problem is it doesn't matter how good their case is ( I am sure they will have a very good case) the commissioners have the final say and the way I see it, if they vote against the tower their decision will not be based on this narrow issue even though they will try and make it look like that way. It you remember right their election campaign was no new tower. I know most campaign promises usually are not kept, but wouldn't put this one in that category.
In fact I would think LCG could also file a law suit based on these campaign statements if they vote it down.
Also it has drawn out so long now and if it is voted down I hope for one of two things to happen convert the analog towers to digital or the FCC to over rule.
Currently I am fortunate to be able to get all but KMGH which really doesn't bother me.

Originally posted by wabisabi
Actually, most of LCG's property is zoned Agricultural 2, with some of it being zoned Mountain Residential 1.

Also, KWGN's site also has a Special Use designation.

-Wabisabi Granted my info is about 3 years old, back when I last looked into it. I didn't think any zoning had change since then. But at the time, the 3 LCG-owned parcels (UPN20 is currently on Morrison) were MR1 and it totaled about 5.5 acres. The LCG development plan shows 8 acres for the consolidated site, so I don't know where theother 2.5 acres comes from. Did the rezoning go into affect when LCG passed two years ago? I thought the rezoning requested by LCG2 was to Planned Development (PD)?

Come clean wabisabi -- you work for JeffCo don't you! I can keep a secret. PM me!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by donyoop
[B]
Also, it will take a few years for them to figure out that if it is only a guy wire issue which affects only one or two houses, there is a concept called eminent domain to just buy the two houses and be done with it. They will do that just to round out a corner in a county road.

Yea, But what if a meteor was to fall from space and cut through a guy wire. Then the DTV tower would fall on another tower and that could hit a house, Or wait, What about a tornado or what if....

Anyone else having a problem getting D* SD signals last night and today during this wet wheather?? Living in south Ft. Collins.

Originally posted by RonAuger
Granted my info is about 3 years old, back when I last looked into it. I didn't think any zoning had change since then. But at the time, the 3 LCG-owned parcels (UPN20 is currently on Morrison) were MR1 and it totaled about 5.5 acres. The LCG development plan shows 8 acres for the consolidated site, so I don't know where theother 2.5 acres comes from. Did the rezoning go into affect when LCG passed two years ago? I thought the rezoning requested by LCG2 was to Planned Development (PD)?


On Lake Cedar Group's web page, (here) (http://www.lakecedarproject.com/) they have a copy of the ODP, which shows that 8 acres is for "use area A" - the tower and support building site.

There are another 72 acres that are to be mostly open space and guy wire anchors. This protection of the "open space" was something that LCG was claiming to be a big benefit of their plan. Most of this 72 acres is zoned agricultural 2.

Hope this helps.

-Wabisabi

Originally posted by John Boy
Anyone else having a problem getting D* SD signals last night and today during this wet wheather?? Living in south Ft. Collins.

Haven't had any problems here. Which stations in particular?

Originally posted by jpco
Haven't had any problems here. Which stations in particular?


Getting none of the SD's only the HD's. Might be the tree near the dish again. Limbs may be hanging lower.

Most of my DirecTv channels went out for about 5 - 10 minutes last night when it started hailing. After that they came back and were fine. I didn't notice any outages today.

Yea, But what if a meteor was to fall from space and cut through a guy wire. Then the DTV tower would fall on another tower and that could hit a house, Or wait, What about a tornado or what if.... That's just it... the JeffCo commisioners will raise exactly that issue and say "We can never be too careful when the public's safety is at risk" as they deny the tower on the issue Judge Jackson gave them. They look prescient, Judge Jackson looks fair, and LCG is dead.

Did anyone notice that KUSA forgot to through the switch last night during Revelations, Had the bars on all sides.

I watched the second half of Revelations in 16X9 HDTV via OTA.

Anybody lose signal power recently? I just lost all of the digitals except 2-1, and that's only at 36%, I usually receive it at 90+ :confused:

I only get KDVR and KWGN OTA, but they are both coming in strong here in Greeley.

Weird, 2-1 and 31-1 are back strong, but I get nothing from 4-1, 6-1, and 9-1. This is the first time I have had trouble in 2 years with this setup. I'll give it a day or so and see if it straitghtens itself out.

Did you try to re-scan for the OTA digital channels on your receiver? Sometimes you just have to do that.

...and this is a surprise because? I currently pay an HDTV fee on top of my subscription fee for ESPNHD, TNTHD, and DiscoveryHD from E*. This is how the DBS carriers are going to pay for the extra HD content provider charges and HD support costs.

This is why it is imperative that OTA network broadcasting remain free to air and remain as a viable alternative to purchasing DTV from cable or DBS. ABC/KMGH in metro-Denver have a similar, though hidden, HD subscription fee currently in place. Basically, 99% of their DMA can't watch ABC in HD w/o purchasing it from Comcast cable.

Originally posted by santellavision
Did you try to re-scan for the OTA digital channels on your receiver? Sometimes you just have to do that.

I did rescan, they didn't come back until I entered 35-1, 16-1, etc. this afternoon. These are my current signal strengths on my panny plasma:

2-1 80%
4-1 70%
6-1 68%
9-1 74%
31-1 82%

Looks like my Republic Plaza and 6-1 signals are back to normal. Very odd, I have never lost them in the last 2 years. KDVR and KWGN are a little weaker than usual, but still respectable. Big sigh of relief! Thanks for the help.

PS Just for s&#*@s and grins, did a scan of 17-1 and got my usual goose egg

Very odd, I have never lost them in the last 2 years.I think it's the spring effecting our signals. All the trees are now spouting and that could be partially causing the variations in SS.

Spring always affects me. KCNC gets worse, ususally just below threshold, and KUSA and KRMA go from good to great signal. Fall does just the opposite. I lost KUSA last month on both of my receivers. As Ernie mentioned, I had to do a rescan to bring it back. Don't ask me why.

I Don't know why but KUSA was coming in great last night, Better than I have ever seen, I didn't check the signal strength though.

Republic Plaza was hit by lighting on Monday evening & lost power for a while. This is why we all lost HD reception, except for 31 and 2 (& 7 if you live next door to the station).

That's interesting, Fuzzyb. When was power restored on Monday?

I have no idea how long the power was out for.

Originally posted by Fuzzyb
Republic Plaza was hit by lighting on Monday evening & lost power for a while. This is why we all lost HD reception, except for 31 and 2 (& 7 if you live next door to the station).

I lost my signals on Friday, so I don't think this was related. ;)

Tonight, the PQ on KUSA during the news and Leno were terrible. Washed out and very blurry... worse than SD even. I plan to write Don Perez an email in the morning.

Anybody else notice how bad their picture was?

KUSA looks just fine here. Teri Hatcher looks just great! :D

Anyone interested in checking out Sky9 (AFAIK, the nation's only HD-capable traffic copter)?

Tomorrow, JeffCo Airport will be hosting an open house: http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/ext/dpt/coatty/airport/open_house.htm

On the 6am news this morning, Taunia Hottman mentioned that Sky9 will be on display at the open house from 9am to 4pm. Taunia has another speaking engagement at 12:45, but said she might stop by at some point. Pilot Jimmy Negri (sp?) will apparently be on hand the whole time.

I'll be at the GM Autoshow in motion tomorrow morning, but I'm thinking I'll probably go check it out in the afternoon. Anyone else up for a mini AVS Denver meet, say at 2:00, up there?

Originally posted by Couch Patato
KUSA looks just fine here. Teri Hatcher looks just great!

Ditto for me on both of those observations!

I live in Highlands Ranch and have a Terk 32 mounted on a ground level mast approximately 20 feet off the ground. The antenna does not quite look over the peak of my roof. I'm thinking of moving the antenna to a higher location at the other end of my house where I can mount it to see over the roofline and get the mast off the ground. It would be raised approximately 15 feet. I have an E*921 receiver.

Currently, and I'm probably the only person in greater Denver to have this situation, my strongest signal is from KMGH, typically at about 84%. I also receive the three signals from Republic Plaza at varying signal strengths, with KCNC the lowest at about 70% and KUSA and KRMA at about 82% even thought they have about the same power from the same location. The other local stations I receive, KGWN, KDVR, KBDI, and KDEN, usually come in at low 70's strengths. My reception has not changed with the trees' leaves now out nor does it vary day vs. night.

I have three questions. Am I in a sweet spot for KMGH that I will probably lose if I move the antenna? Is the lowest signal strength I receive for KCNC due to its using a higher frequency in which my antenna's gain is not as good or is this due to the current location of the antenna? Finally, is my antenna in a less desirable location for reception of KWGN and KDVR that I may improve by moving the antenna since these stations, as I understand it, are broadcasting at much higher power than all the others - 450 Kw and 223 Kw respectively.

One last issue. I also receive KGWN, DT 30 (5.1) out of Cheyenne, but only at night. Right now, the minimal signal of about 60% that is stable and watchable starts coming in at about 6:30 PM. The strength increases all evening and currently, as I write this about midnight, it is at 79%. It has done this day in and day out since I first started noticing it around the holidays, that is, about 1-2 hours before sunset, I begin to receive a minimal 60% signal strength that is viewable. Is this situation merely due to the cooling of the atmosphere that apparently allows the signal to travel farther at night or can I do something, such as moving the antenna or adding an ampliflier to get the signal during the day?

Thanks for anyone who has any thoughts or ideas.

milehighmike,
Why would you want to move your antenna when you receive all the stations? Most of us would kill to get what you have! IMO you should leave it alone and make sure that you pay homage to the kilowatt starved OTA HD Gods at least twice a day!

Ditto Iwanthd said.

The worst signal you quote is 60%. What is the threshold for a lock on your receiver? If your receivers threshold is 50% or lower, I wouldn't change a thing and I'd dance naked in the glow of my perfect HD picture.

If you want to try another location (maybe you aren't getting KWGN and KDVR - you didn't say), use a second antenna and a tomparary run of coax.

I would suggest trying a new location. It might be better, who knows until you test it. And, at least you know you could go back to where it was.

FYI: Not to insult anybody using one, but Terks have a reputation of not being very good.

Thanks for the feedback. I wanted to move the antenna because the mast is in front of a window and I have to ground mount the antenna where it is now. If I moved it, I could mount it at the edge of the roof, get rid of the mast on the ground and in front of the window, and also get it higher.

My receiver threshold is about 60% signal strength. And yes, I do get KWGN and KDVR, but they are about my weakest signals at low 70's% strength.

I live in Highlands Ranch, CO with a completely clear northern view (absolutely no obstructions) of the entire city of Denver and the Front Range. My house backs up to some open space without any neighbors behind my house for a few hundred yards. I just had my DirecTV HD TiVo installed to my 65-inch Mitsubishi RPTV and I have a few questions about getting OTA HDTV reception as this would be my first foray into OTA HD. I apologize in advance if some of my questions are too vague or require a much more detailed answer, one that cannot just be explained here in this forum.

1. What would be the best OTA antenna to use for my location without being too huge.

2. Best location to mount the antenna (hehehehe...he said mount) and where exactly at the city should I point it?

3. Once the antenna is installed, how in the heck do you hook it up? For example, do you run the OTA antenna into the HD TiVo? Or do I run the wires into the DirecTV connection I have in my basement? Or do I bypass the HD Tivo altogether?

4. Is there any other advice you can give about this in addition to what I didn't ask, and need to know.

I appreciate everyone's input and look forward to your replies.

Welcome Jeff,
Most guys have pretty good luck in the HR area. The channel you most likely will have trouble receiving is KMGH7 (DT17). My suggestion to you is try one of the OTA UHF Rat Shack antennas first (as you can easily return it) and work up from there. 4,6,9's DTV transmitters are located on top of Republic Plaza (the biggest silver building downtown) Fox and WB2 are on Lookout Mt. to the west, and 7 is on top of their building on Lincoln. A bit east in the direction of the Capitol downtown. UPN20 digital is not on the air yet. My suggestion is to try to get a lock on 7 (DT-17) and work back from there.

Here's a link to see what others in the HR area are receiving and what equipment they are using.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587&highlight=denver+data

I did rescan, they didn't come back until I entered 35-1, 16-1, etc. this afternoon. These are my current signal strengths on my panny plasma:

2-1 80%
4-1 70%
6-1 68%
9-1 74%
31-1 82%

Looks like my Republic Plaza and 6-1 signals are back to normal. Very odd, I have never lost them in the last 2 years. KDVR and KWGN are a little weaker than usual, but still respectable. Big sigh of relief! Thanks for the help.

PS Just for s&#*@s and grins, did a scan of 17-1 and got my usual goose egg

Sunshinedawg, where are you in longmont and what is your current setup? I live on the west side off of Airport Rd. and I can only get 2-1 and 31-1. I'm debating about putting an antenna in the attic or on the roof. Any suggestions? I'd love to get 4-1, 6-1 and 9-1.

Thanks.

Kerncom,

I live in Highlands Ranch, two blocks north of Summit View Elementary School. I have an outside antenna, as rabbit ears didn't work well for me, mounted outside on the back of my house. I currently receive the DT channels corresponding to channels 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 25, and 31. Channel 5 is from Cheyenne and I only receive it at night. I cannot receive DT channels corresponding to channels 14 or 53, (DT 15 & 46) but that's OK as I never watch these channels anyway.

Highlands Ranch has Community Association Covenants that purportedly restrict placement of antennas and require you to notify them unless you put your antenna inside or at ground level in back of your house. Ignore them, I did. They do not conform to the Telecommunications Act of 1996. I've had my antenna up since November 2004 and have not heard from the Covenant Police.

I have a Terk 32 antenna that I purchased at Circuit City. It was overpriced and supposedly is not highly rated, but it does the job for me. It was about $75. Since channels 6, 7, and 9 are going to revert from their UHF frequencies back to their current analog frequencies, I would buy an all-channel (low/high VHF and UHF) antenna if I were you. That's what I'll probably have to do once analog is shut off.

Your antenna should be connected to your Direct TV receiver, where your OTA tuner is. If you'd like to see my setup, PM me.

Kerncom,

One other note: the DirecTV HD TiVo has one OTA antenna input - there's a splitter inside the TiVo to enable both OTA tuners but only if you have both satellite cables plugged in. To maximize OTA signal strength, try to make one uninterrupted (except, of course, for the grounding block) cable run from the antenna to the TiVo.

Sunshinedawg, where are you in longmont and what is your current setup? I live on the west side off of Airport Rd. and I can only get 2-1 and 31-1. I'm debating about putting an antenna in the attic or on the roof. Any suggestions? I'd love to get 4-1, 6-1 and 9-1.

Thanks.

I'm over by the Safeway on 17th and Hover(just north of the FAA complex). I have a RS yagi antenna with a RS amp. The antenna is up in some aspen trees in my back yard. I suggest you get your antenna up as high as you can, with good access so you can tweak it. Attics can be difficult because they are not as high and are difficult to negotiate. Let me know if you need some help.

Sean

So this weekend I finally decided to buy a cheap $25 UHF antenna from Radio Shack (40" UHF only), and mount it on my roof to see what I could pull in from Denver.

As expected, I got Fox, WB2, and some PBS stuff. Much to my surprise, I also am getting 8 out of 10 bars for NBC 9-1 from Denver. I have a new Samsung HL-P5067 with an integrated HD tuner.

Has KUSA recently boosted their output power or something ? I'm two miles south of Harmony just East of I-25. Everything else I read from people in FC indicated that they couldn't get NBC from Denver. One thing that may help, is that I believe that my area is 100 - 200 FT higher than the Harmony road area. $25 UHF antenna on the roof, 85FT cable, no booster.

Hi rblatchley,
I am on the NE side of town (17th and Hilltop) I bought the 160" dual Boom 57 element from Radio Shack and installed on the roof, I used the same set up at my sisters house (hwy 66 and NorthShore Dr) except hers is in the attic. (Sean was right, this was difficult and the rafters were lined up with 183 deg.) Both of us receive everything except channel 7. using a E*921 and an 811. Let me know if you need help as well.

It thought this might make you guys laugh...

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4512146/detail.html

HaHaHa,
Looks like 'ol Deb Carney's got a new client in Sacramento! Using the classic 'My House is a Microwave Oven' excuse to extort $$$/Favors/Whatever.

Hey, it's working in Colorado, might as well give it a shot in California. Way to go Deb!

....jc

It thought this might you guys laugh...

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4512146/detail.html
LOL :D

Has KUSA recently boosted their output power or something ? I'm two miles south of Harmony just East of I-25. Everything else I read from people in FC indicated that they couldn't get NBC from Denver. One thing that may help, is that I believe that my area is 100 - 200 FT higher than the Harmony road area. $25 UHF antenna on the roof, 85FT cable, no booster.Nope - the elevation delta is more than enough to make the difference between great reception and zero reception.

Sunshinedawg, where are you in longmont and what is your current setup? I live on the west side off of Airport Rd. and I can only get 2-1 and 31-1. I'm debating about putting an antenna in the attic or on the roof. Any suggestions? I'd love to get 4-1, 6-1 and 9-1.

Thanks.

Well, it looks like there are a few of us with a simular situation. I also am just West of Airport Rd and a bit South of Clover Basin. I do see a Channel Master 8 on a mast at house on Clover Basin (between Airport Rd and the Elementary school). I am tempted to knock and see what they are getting.

Keep us posted on what you get. I am going to attempt positioning my new CM-8 this weekend.

# Matt

So this weekend I finally decided to buy a cheap $25 UHF antenna from Radio Shack (40" UHF only), and mount it on my roof to see what I could pull in from Denver.

As expected, I got Fox, WB2, and some PBS stuff. Much to my surprise, I also am getting 8 out of 10 bars for NBC 9-1 from Denver. I have a new Samsung HL-P5067 with an integrated HD tuner.

Has KUSA recently boosted their output power or something ? I'm two miles south of Harmony just East of I-25. Everything else I read from people in FC indicated that they couldn't get NBC from Denver. One thing that may help, is that I believe that my area is 100 - 200 FT higher than the Harmony road area. $25 UHF antenna on the roof, 85FT cable, no booster.


Congrats on getting Channel 9 - I am in Huntington Hill and can not get a signal from 9. I have a attic antenna. - Not about to go on the roof

BTW - there is a forum for Norther Co: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=199726&page=23&pp=20

Reggie

I happened to surf past Leno last night around 1115 and saw that the picture was frozen. Not sure when it started, but it stayed that way for at least 10 minutes. Analog was working normally, as was WeatherPlus.

You know I hate to admit this, but the wife and I have actually tuned in to WeatherPlus (9-02) several times each week. Maybe NBC was on to something with their idea.

You know I hate to admit this, but the wife and I have actually tuned in to WeatherPlus (9-02) several times each week. Maybe NBC was on to something with their idea.Someone with an Internet connection thinks WeatherPlus is worthwhile? For God's sake, why?

Alas, many people will be like you, so true HD quality goes in the dustbin for people who can't be bothered to go to the NWS Denver web site... (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/den)

(Sigh... nothing against you personally, CEB II, just a general rant; between OTA stations using bandwidth for things like WeatherPlus and ABC News Now and cable and home satellite companies compressing the snot out of HD channels, it won't be long before the only way to see HD content will be via HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray...)

Has anyone heard that Roger Ogden, former GM at KUSA in Denver, has just recently been named President of Gannett's Broadcasting Division. Will there be a new GM @KUSA soon?

Yeah, they mentioned that on the news last week. The new GM for KUSA is someone (sorry, can't remember the name) who has a different role at KUSA currently.

I got this little tidbit, via email, from the 'Consumers Union':

'Congress may soon pull plug on your TV set'...
Did you know your TV could soon go dark? Congress will soon set a firm date for all television signals to switch from the signal you receive now to an all-digital one. Yet, millions of Americans do not have a TV capable of getting this new digital signal--and many will need to buy a brand new TV or a set-top converter box (estimated cost of at least $50 each). Tell Congress you want your TV to work!
The link to their promo is Here: (https://secure2.convio.net/cu/site/Advocacy?JServSessionIdr003=xzxzf2x6e4.app1a&page=UserAction&cmd=display&id=543)

Any opinions?

What I see for the future, is not good. Broadcast commercialization on a scale never seen before. And, a 1080i broadcast format, available only on Off-Air sources. :mad:
....jc

Just an info item for everyone. I checked the antennaweb.org site yesterday and it showed on-air dates for KTVD-DT19 as 07-05 along with KPXC-DT43, KCEC-DT51, and KRMT-DT40 as 06-05. As of today, June 1, when I checked it again, the 06-05 dates have been updated to "TBD" while KTVD-DT-19's remains 07-05.

Someone with an Internet connection thinks WeatherPlus is worthwhile? For God's sake, why?Cause there's no telling where I may be when I get a hankering to know the weather. If I'm sitting at my desk when this happens, I check the Internet. If I'm sitting on the couch, I'll check WeatherPlus.

Has anyone lost 12-1, 12-2 and 12-3 via OTA during the past week? I was receiving them just fine on Samsing TS360 D* HD receiver but not on a new HR10-250 D* HD Tivo receiver. I'm trying to determine if it is just a coincidence, whether they've gone off air, or if the HR10-250 can't tune them. Unfortunately I no longer have the TS360 to test with.

I noticed yesterday that 12-1, 12-2, and 12-3 were all 12-1 programming. However, the three different broadcasts are coming in in the 38- range. I don't have access to check right now, but they were all there, without program guide data.

So I just checked back in on this thread to see how the tower was coming along....
and it looks like it's dead.

bummer =\

Anyone know when Lost will be out on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray without commericials? :D

Has anyone lost 12-1, 12-2 and 12-3 via OTA during the past week? I was receiving them just fine on Samsing TS360 D* HD receiver but not on a new HR10-250 D* HD Tivo receiver. I'm trying to determine if it is just a coincidence, whether they've gone off air, or if the HR10-250 can't tune them. Unfortunately I no longer have the TS360 to test with.

KDBI's signal has not remapped to 12-1, et al since I noticed it sometime last week. On my E*811 receiver, KDBI is showing up as 38-1, 38-2, and 38-3 with nothing on 12.

I'm looking for some solid information regarding program guide information provided by E* for local channels. I currently subscribe to E* analog locals but am considering dropping them (to save $6 a month) since I get digital reception of all the locals, including the imfamous KMGH's tin can transmission, and I can get the analog locals with rabbit ears. However, I've read in several threads on this forum that E* populates the program guide for locals based on subscribing to them, rather than based on PSIP information, and that I will lose the local's program guide information if I drop the locals.

Besides the local DT's, I also receive OTA KGWN, DT30, from Cheyenne, sometimes during the day but always at night. This station shows up in my program guide even though it is not included in my locals package from E*, analog channel 5. This seems to contradict what I have read on this forum regarding how E* populates the program guide. I cannot get a straight answer from the CSR's at E*.

Does anyone know exactly how E*'s program guide works for locals?

Also, if I do drop locals from E*, I'm looking at replacing my Terk-32 UHF antenna that I use for DT reception with an all channel antenna that I can use to feed my other 3 TV's, eliminate rabbit ears, and be prepared when KRMA reverts back to channel 6 after the analog shutoff. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good VHF-UHF antenna? I've looked at the Channel Master 3020 and Radio Shack 15-2156/VU-190XR as possibilites. I'm also not adverse to using a rotor. I have one but I'm not using it now. I'm in Highlands Ranch.

KBDI is showing up on 38-3, 38-4, and 38-5 on my Zenith receiver.

Does anyone know exactly how E*'s program guide works for locals?It probably depends on the particular E* receiver. I know with the 2 D* receivers I have, one "favors" the guide data from D* and copies it to the OTA DTV channels. It ignores PSIP. The other receiver doesn't have the APG, so the satellite and antenna inputs are different guides. The antenna input can either acquire PSIP or not by a menu switch.

Why don't you just try it. Cancel locals with E* and see what happens. You can turn them on/off with a phone call.

BTW, My older receiver can't tune KBDI-DT at all -- not at 12-1 or at 38-3. I've run into this before. It will take a channel scan to get it back and from what y'all have said, I expect to find it at 38-3.

If you subscribe to locals, E* uses PSIP and its own local EPG information to provide you about a 48 hour EPG on you E* 811 for local DTV channels. If you drop the E* locals, you just get PSIP data, for however many hours that covers. If you don't need to look ahead, it may be fine for you.

However, when E* eventually starts broadcasting local HD, you won't be eligible to receive it unless you already subscribe to E* locals. Maybe not a big deal for you.

E* does have a disconnect and, I think, a re-connect charge. Something like $5. So, it isn't entirely free if you want to experiment.

CEB II

Thanks for the info. It's exactly what I wanted to know and I suspected E* used PSIP in some fashion since I receive program info on KGWN from Cheyenne. Once I find an antenna that can drive my analog reception on my other TV's, I think I'll drop the locals.

Cause there's no telling where I may be when I get a hankering to know the weather. If I'm sitting at my desk when this happens, I check the Internet. If I'm sitting on the couch, I'll check WeatherPlus.Try a laptop with a WiFi connection - that's what I'm doing now and it doesn't ruin the HD picture quality for everyone else in your viewing area... :D

I have read through this thread and there seems to be great information, thanks all! It is still unclear to me however which OTA antenna works the best in Denver. I am living at Florida and Sherman, near Sushi Den and then soon to be developed Gates project. Can anyone offer a suggestion for which antenna works best here. I would prefer something compact. Thanks a bunch...

Barkley Vision

I don't think there is one "best" antenna. Each one has its strengths. Some work better at long distances, but are more directional. Some have wider pattern etc. My suggestion is the Channelmaster 3021. Many of the guys here in town have them and like 'em.

http://www.starkelectronic.com/cmuhf.htm.

I installed one at Iliff and Parker Rd and it picks up everything (including the infamous 7) The only issue you might have, is that you have to aim toward downtown. And 2, 12, 31, are about 90º off-axis at Lookout Mt.

Although, 2,31 are much higher power, they should come in fine. You can also check the Denver DTV page. http://www.denverdtv.info

And you can check the Denver DTV reception page. There is plenty of info on who's receiving what and which equipment they are using.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168587&highlight=denver+data

Barkley Vision,
If you are trying to capture signals from two sources, downtown Denver and Lookout Mtn., with one antenna, and the spread is more than about 20 degrees, the Yagi may be a better choice.

In general, Yagi-style antennas have a wider beamwidth than do bay-style antennas. That means that with a little adjusting, you'll have a better chance to capture the signals from both locations.

I live on the northend of Golden, Roughly Ford and Wyoming st., not far from Pine Ridge road and Hwy 93

I have an ATI HDTV tuner card with the included stock antenna (silver sensor, I think).

31 and 2 (3.2 miles, 174 deg) both come in at 85-90 in any direction I point the antenna, but I have had no luck receiving any other stations. I have only tried indoor placement, but thought I would get at least some signal reading, since almost all of the stations are all less than 10 miles away (via antennaweb). 12/38 is the furthest (at 15.5 miles, 235 deg). 6 is at 3.2 miles, 187 deg

I've read the CM 4228 is a good antenna (here, and elsewhere), but am unsure if this would be good for my situation - given all of the local topography (mesas, etc). I've heard folks recommend it with a pre-amp when there is a lot of distance to overcome - but distance does not seem to be a problem for me.

I was thinking of mounting a 4228 in the attic (minus a pre-amp), as my next step. Given the proximity, I assumed a pre amp would cause interference.

The wife is already looking at me like I have wasted way too much time on my little hdtv/htpc project.

My priority is to get the PBS's 6/12 - I'm not really concerned if I don't receive any other stations.

Thanks for any help.

Well to clear some things up. First, DTV transmitters for 6,9 & 4 are all very low-power and located on top of the Republic plaza bldg. downtown (The big square sliver bldg). 7 is at Lincoln/Speer-downtown. And 2 & 31 are much higher power from Lookout above you.

Are you scanning for the correct channels? Remember DTV channels are different that NTSC channels. And with most stations doing channel remapping a lot, DTV receivers are all different and seem to designate channels differently.

KWGN2 is DT34
KCNC4 is DT35
KRMA6 is DT18
KMGH7 is well... who cares, you ain't got a chance.
KUSA9 is DT16
KDVR is DT32
KBDI is DT38 but way out west on Squaw Mt. you'll never get them either due to shadowing. (Also, they are not broadcasting HD anyway, just SD)

Second, do you have a fairly 'clean' shot at downtown? If you have some hills between you and them, it's gonna' be hard (maybe not impossible) as I live up in Genesee and do not have line-of-sight at all. I have a huge hill right in front on my place and can still pull downtown with a CM3023 So, if your after mainly PBS6, then you most likely will need a pretty strong antenna like the CM4228, CM3023 or RS equivilent . Sure, why not try the attic first, but most likely, you'll will have to go with a rooftop mount. And a pre-amp will most likely make things worse as being so close to Lookout, all the other transmitter will over-power the input and hurt you.

But, as most of us have found out, there are a couple big things... Moving the antenna location a mere 2-3" in any direction can make a HUGE difference and your choice of equipment (antenna & pre-amp may work for you, but not the next guy)

Oh, lastly, send the wife some REALLY nice flowers or give her a nice day at the SPA, that should help!

I live on the northend of Golden, Roughly Ford and Wyoming st., not far from Pine Ridge road and Hwy 93.So you've got North Table Mountain sitting between your house and downtown, right? If so, I doubt there's any antenna that's going to pull in the stattions from Republic Plaza.

You need to go yell at your neighbors who've been blocking the LCG proposal.

You need to go yell at your neighbors who've been blocking the LCG proposal.
And your city council, who's been using your tax dollars to prevent you from receiving free OTA HDTV.

I saw this article in the programming forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5727792&&#post5727792

The last paragraphs state:

"Qualcomm has a MediaFLO trial under way in San Diego using video from several content providers and wants to strike carriage deals with TV networks for more programming.

Programmers will be given a percentage of every paid subscription. A trial in Denver is slated to begin in late 2005 and commercial service is expected to commence in summer 2006."

I may be wrong, but it appears to say that Qualcomm is going to take the analog KWHD TV-53 earlier than the expected shutoff date of 1/1/09 and start using it for mobile phone video services later this year (on a trial basis). Next summer appears (from the article) to be when KWHD-DT46 no longer has an analog counterpart. Denver will actually be in the forefront of having a station depend on DTV for OTA viewers (but, I'm guessing there's probably not many of them).

Wo, that was a good catch on the Denver trial. I was surfing the Colorado Springs thread and I saw that TallGuy said KRDO-DT (ABC) is trying to go full power by this fall. I wonder if I'll be able to see a signal from them. I think Longmont, Republic Plaza and CS are close to being in a straight line, so I wouldn't have to move my antenna at all. Anyone know what KRDO's full power will be rated at?

Also, does anybody know what happened to KKTU ABC-DT out of Cheyenne? I was getting a really strong signal from them a while back. I think they had moved their transmitter to Ft. Collins or something, but they just dissappeared.

Well, from the Cheyenne thread, KKTU is going to be partners with KDEV-LP in Denver, and no longer affiliated with ABC. Maybe some hope from CS.

sunshinedawg,

When I last checked the FCC info, KRDO's full power on DT 24 will only be 200 kW, less than the current reduced power KWGN (450 kW) and KDVR (223 kW) are operating with. I don't believe the folks in the Springs can receive KWGN and KDVR, so I wouldn't hold out much hope, especially with the Palmer Divide sitting there at what, 7000+ feet?

I may be wrong, but it appears to say that Qualcomm is going to take the analog KWHD TV-53 earlier than the expected shutoff date of 1/1/09 and start using it for mobile phone video services later this year (on a trial basis). .For all I would know, they did this switch a long time ago. I get a clear signal from KWHD-DT (46), but have never picked up anything other than snow on their analog channel (53).

sunshinedawg,

When I last checked the FCC info, KRDO's full power on DT 24 will only be 200 kW, less than the current reduced power KWGN (450 kW) and KDVR (223 kW) are operating with. I don't believe the folks in the Springs can receive KWGN and KDVR, so I wouldn't hold out much hope, especially with the Palmer Divide sitting there at what, 7000+ feet?

According to GPS I'm at ~7450 feet, just south of the the El Paso/Elbert county line. I can get KWGN-DT (steady) and KDVR-DT (some dropouts) when my antenna is pointed the right way. Can't get a sniff of the KRDO-DT low power (currently non-HD)signal. I guess getting a full power KRDO-DT from north of the Palmer Divide would be a long shot, unless you are sitting up pretty high in the foothills. On the other hand, the transmitting antenna on Cheyenne Mountain should be above 9400 feet.

According to GPS I'm at ~7450 feet, just south of the the El Paso/Elbert county line. I can get KWGN-DT (steady) and KDVR-DT (some dropouts) when my antenna is pointed the right way. Can't get a sniff of the KRDO-DT low power (currently non-HD)signal. I guess getting a full power KRDO-DT from north of the Palmer Divide would be a long shot, unless you are sitting up pretty high in the foothills. On the other hand, the transmitting antenna on Cheyenne Mountain should be above 9400 feet.

How far is Cheyenne mtn from the Palmer divide? I'm hoping that I might be far enough north that the signal will make it over. I guess it would depend on how close they are to each other(Palmer and Cheyenne) and if Cheyenne is tall enough to clear the divide. Thanks

How far is Cheyenne mtn from the Palmer divide? I'm hoping that I might be far enough north that the signal will make it over. I guess it would depend on how close they are to each other(Palmer and Cheyenne) and if Cheyenne is tall enough to clear the divide. Thanks

It's roughly 30-35 miles. At the distance from Cheyenne Mountain to your location, the issue is probably the curvature of the earth blocking line of sight.

I do recall that when I lived in Loveland, I could sometimes pick up barely watchable analog Colorado Springs stations (channels 5, 11 and 13); of course, those are VHF.

Thanks for the helpful advice.

I ordered a 4228 with 50 ft. of RG-6 from SolidSignal. SolidSignal and Warren electronics had the cheapest prices for the 4228 (that I could find) ~$40 - if anyone else is shopping this model.

I plan to mount it on a cheap camera tripod in the attic.

If the attic route doesn't work, I'll move to plan B....but before I get ahead of myself I'll report back on how the attic mount works.

[Regarding alternate station mappings] I think I'm okay here. I manually mapped all of the stations and their alternate call numbers in the ATI HDTV config tool to hopefully remove this issue as a potential failure point. The auto discovery tool also finds/maps 2 & 31 and their alternates, without problem. I can send a screenshot if this is unclear.

[Regarding Golden politics] :-) Although I have no problem with antenna towers on Lookout Mountain (and I work in medical research) - my biggest political concern is the 470 extension being planned through Golden. I'll likely have/want to move from my current home depending on which route plan CDOT chooses. At least I now know to factor in HDTV signal strength when evaluating a location for future residence. :-)

I'll let everyone know the outcome of the 4228/attic permutation. Should be in a week or so.

Woke up this morning and my signal strengths are way down from all Republic stations. 16.1 is at just over 60% and is normally pushing 80. All was fine yesterday. I'm thinking it's atmospheric but I've never had this low of strength.

Anyone else having issues or have thoughts?

Woke up this morning and my signal strengths are way down from all Republic stations. 16.1 is at just over 60% and is normally pushing 80. All was fine yesterday. I'm thinking it's atmospheric but I've never had this low of strength.

Anyone else having issues or have thoughts?

16-1 is showing 80%, which is normal for me. 35-1 is down a few points at 73% and 18-1 is up a few @ 73%. I had all my signals go down for the first time a few weeks ago. It wasn't until I rescanned and then entered them manually( 16-1 etc ) a few days later that they returned.

16.1 for me is up a little to 84% tonight. 18.1 and 35.1 are about the same, at 84% and 72%. 17.1 is down a little at 81%. 32.1 is up to about 77% tonight. It's usually about 71%, the same as 34.1 usually is. But tonight, I can hardly lock 34.1 at about 61%. 38.1 and 38.2 have disappeared - 0% - but 38.3 is about 75%. Strange.

Also, my nighttime reception of 30.1 (Cheyenne) is way up to 78%. It usually fluctuates from the high 60%'s to low 70%'s. The weather plays strange games. I just about lose one of my locals (KWGN) yet my nighttime only reception of KGWN is the best it's probably ever been. Go figure.

THanks for the info. I tried a rescan and manually entering but no luck. I'll check my coax connections later today. Who knows what the rain could've done.

Ok, I got up this morning and my Republic signals are missing also. Last night they were fine. I'm starting to think it is the weather. It's strange, in over 2 years I had never lost my signals. I must have just not been watching when it happened before. I do go long stretches where I don't turn the TV on. WB is at 73 and Fox is bouncing around between 25 and 40. We must be affected by the same reception issues and in the same corridor for the downtown channels.

Yep, must be the weather. I am still getting 16.1 but it is bouncing between 60-65. WB and FOX are lower but still coming in OK 77 and 72 respectively. I've had my current setup since last fall and this is the first time it's been this bad. At least I can see the Nascar race in HD today so all is not lost...yet.

FYI, I'm east of town just off 119...3 mi west of 25.

Anyone else having signal issues? As of this morning nothing has changed.

Anyone else having signal issues? As of this morning nothing has changed.
No Problems at my house, I will check signal strength tonight and report back anything out of the ordinary.

I'm pretty much back to normal now.

Anyone else having signal issues? As of this morning nothing has changed.

Wasn't home over the weekend to check, but all my stations are fine tonight (except for the rumor of a KMGH DTV which I have only heard about).

Originally Posted by oxothuk
For all I would know, they did this switch a long time ago. I get a clear signal from KWHD-DT (46), but have never picked up anything other than snow on their analog channel (53).

I relocated my downtown attic antenna last weekend and lo and behold, KWHD-DT, channel 47 at 67 to 70. Never had better than a steady 49, no lock, before. The wife wasn't impressed until she noticed the program on that Saturday morning was all about buying and installing granite counter tops. I was a hero for about an hour. Amazing that I can get a very low wattage station 37 miles away, but can't get channel 17 at 10 miles, although I'm now getting a steady 49 on it.

Just for grins Saturday evening I tuned in analog channel 53, which I previously only got a snow storm on. Wow, the best analog PQ I've received here. Even better than my pristine channel 2. They were doing some fishing in Montana show and the resolution was so good it looked like DTV. I was even able to zoom to my wide screen w/o a noticeable loss of resolution.

Well, 2 new channels gained, but digital 34 very weak now and analog 20 and 31 all screwed up. Back up there next weekend for my next adjustment. Hey, it's that or mow the lawn.

CEB II,

Regarding KWHD, I live in Highlands Ranch, am up rather high (I receive KMGH as my strongest signal, ironically), am only 18 miles from KWHD's transmitter according to antennaweb.org, yet get a zero signal strength. I do get their analog 53 signal, but it's full of ghosts.

I Amazing that I can get a very low wattage station 37 miles away, but can't get channel 17 at 10 miles, although I'm now getting a steady 49 on it.I get them from 51 miles away up here in Boulder, but I do have my antenna outside. I can even pull it in with a Silver Sensor on the porch. The signal is pretty weak (about 17-20db, vs. 25db for the Republic stations and 30 dB for the Lookout stations) but the picture is clear without dropouts or pixelation. If only they had something to watch!

I also have to give KWHD credit for maintaining their program guide, which KRMA can't be bothered with - wasn't that supposed to be a mandate?

I'm pretty much back to normal now.

Well, I was all ready to check my connections this weekend and this morning the signals are back to normal. This sure can be frustrating.....

As far as ch.46...I am able to get them in most of the time with a signal of 62-65.

Well, I was all ready to check my connections this weekend and this morning the signals are back to normal. This sure can be frustrating.....

You might still want to check your connections. Wet weather could lead to wet connections and that could result in the problem you had. If your signals go south again after the next soaking you'll know for sure.

You might still want to check your connections. Wet weather could lead to wet connections and that could result in the problem you had. If your signals go south again after the next soaking you'll know for sure.

That's a good point. I am running two coax lines...one to a 4228 and another to a VHF. The only connections are at the grounding block just before they enter the house and also at the antennas themselves, but I did use outdoor connections. However, that was a lot of rain and I think the problem would be at the grounding block so I'll check there.

Thanks for the advice.

I found this item today, by Phillip Swann...

Washington, D.C. (June 14, 2005) -- DIRECTV has announced that it will offer High-Definition TV feeds of local channels in 24 markets this fall. This will be the first time that DIRECTV will provide viewers with local high-def coverage.
.
.
.
I will predict, though, that DIRECTV's 24 market roll out of local HDTV will be done in
two stages. DIRECTV has announced that the first 12 markets will be: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, San Francisco, Dallas, Washington DC,
Atlanta, Detroit, Houston, and Tampa Bay.

In the next few weeks, I predict that DIRECTV will announce 12 additional markets that will get local HDTV this fall.
The entire article is here. (http://www.onhd.tv/directvlocal061405.html)

Since Fox is really the only reason that I'm considering the 'move', I'm going to reorient my main antenna and see if I can pick up Fox from the Springs. If I can, I'll get a Join-Tenna for my 'sidearm' antenna and see if that works(my main antenna still needs to be pointed toward Denver). If so, great, no move. But with mountains in the path, I'm betting 80% against the antenna working. Sigh. Fox will be broadcasting 107 HD NFL games this season(over 90% of it's games). The 1st preseason game is only 52 days away!
....jc

Ok, now I've lost 9-1, all other channels are fine. :confused: :confused:

9.1 is down. Someone must have tripped over the extension cord.

(9.2 is out as well...)

Still down Saturday morning...

Looks like Don got whatever the problem was resolved sometime today. 9-1 and 9-2 back online this afternoon when I looked.

But the graphics generator for 9-2 is in really sad shape; half the graphics are fuzzy and a lot of the text is legible only because you know what it's supposed to read (e.g. "Highlands (fuzzy)")

Looks like Don got whatever the problem was resolved sometime today. 9-1 and 9-2 back online this afternoon when I looked.

Looks like the PSIP stream has changed on KUSA. No joy on either KUSA or KBDI once their signal went down (KBDI a couple of weeks ago). The Sammy TS-360 is overly picky on inconsistencies on the PSIP stream. Rescan just treats them as unreceivable channels. Speaking of 9-2, ever notice that the 5-day lower right graphics is not consistent with their own weather forcasts on 9-1 (and is usually wrong - for Denver at least. And hey, where's Longmont?).

Edit: KUSA working now Sunday evening on Sammy TS-360.

But, I think the main 9-1 PQ is better now. I could care less how fuzzy 9-2 is. Maybe they are actually giving some bandwidth back to their HD channel.

Don Perez replied to an email I had sent, mentioning that KUSA-DT was down.

He said, in part:

During some recent winds our antenna used to interconnect our studio facility to the DTV transmitter moved. This caused a failure in the delivery of HD content to the transmitter. It has been repaired. Sorry for the inconvenience in our service.Really, quite a friendly guy.

They were down again this morning for me...

At exactly 7:15 PM 6/10/05 on KCNC-DT, a problem developed
in the OTA signal from KCNC-DT (Denver, Co.) The symptom is that
there are fine vertical stripes, precisely two pixels wide.
It's most noticeable in red areas of the image, it appears only
in static or near static scenes, it takes only a slight
amount of motion or panning to make the problem disappear.
The problem exists only in hi def programs, so you won't see
it during the day, only in primetime, generally 7-10 PM
(except 11 - noon during Young and the Restless which is hi def).
I've talked to a couple engineers at KCNC, but they have basically
ignored me, guess it's easier to pretend the problem doesn't exist than
to fix it, despite me sending them screen shots documenting the problem.
The problem is not intermittent it exists all the time in all HD progs.

See attachment, you may have to zoom in. The wall paper in solid red,
but clearly shows stripes.

I would like to hear from anyone in the Denver area about this.

Yikes, that's ugly. I'll try to watch a little KCNC tonight to see if I see it.

Well, shoot...forgot to watch anything live on CBS last night. Was finishing watching my JAG recordings from April. Maybe tonight... :)

I watched a few minutes of "King of Queens", or whatever the show is at 8 PM and didn't see the problem on my set. Wasn't watching real close though (doing a repair project in the back of the room), so unless it is that way all the time, I could easily have missed it.

I watched a few minutes of "King of Queens", or whatever the show is at 8 PM and didn't see the problem on my set. Wasn't watching real close though (doing a repair project in the back of the room), so unless it is that way all the time, I could easily have missed it.

It's there all the time, but not necessarily evident in all scenes as follows:

Must be a still or near still scene, no panning.
Best observed in high red content areas. Actors faces/
skintones and lips will show this.
Knowing what to look for, I also see it in greens, oranges, blues.
Never in dark areas, or whites. It can be subtle, so look at lips
and bright red things, and most of all, any motion will mask the
problem.

It's possible that this "glitch" (for lack of a better word)
affects some tuners and not others. Please indicate what type
of tuner/set top box you are using, wether or not

I tried to attach a screen shot, but when I look at my own post, I just
get an icon for an attacment, not the pic itself. Do you see the screen shot?

Thanks, Jeff

Well, shoot...forgot to watch anything live on CBS last night. Was finishing watching my JAG recordings from April. Maybe tonight... :)

Did you see the pic I attached to my post?

Jeff

It's there all the time, but not necessarily evident in all scenes as follows:

Must be a still or near still scene, no panning.
Best observed in high red content areas. Actors faces/
skintones and lips will show this.
Knowing what to look for, I also see it in greens, oranges, blues.
Never in dark areas, or whites. It can be subtle, so look at lips
and bright red things, and most of all, any motion will mask the
problem.

It's possible that this "glitch" (for lack of a better word)
affects some tuners and not others. Please indicate what type
of tuner/set top box you are using, wether or not

I tried to attach a screen shot, but when I look at my own post, I just
get an icon for an attacment, not the pic itself. Do you see the screen shot?

Thanks, Jeff


I sure wasn't paying enough attention to look for still scenes, although I wouldn't say there weren't any. I was using the OTA side of a D* Zenith Sat 520 at the time. Probably won't see much tonight as I will be watching the NBA finals using a different HD receiver.

I watched about 10 minutes of some show called "Without a Trace" and I got in really close to the screen. As for the vertical stripes I can only say "maybe". Unfortunately the trend in shooting TV and movies these days is to never, ever, ever keep the camera still ever ever and also to cut back and forth as quickly as possible, which makes it hard to diagnose this problem and also creates more MPEG2 artifacts since OTA MPEG2 hates movement of any kind.

I'm much more disturbed at how out of sync that audio and video are on all of KCNC's upscaled programs are, especially their news. Surely I cannot be the only one to notice that, right?

I'm much more disturbed at how out of sync that audio and video are on all of KCNC's upscaled programs are, especially their news. Surely I cannot be the only one to notice that, right?[/QUOTE]

For me, the sync prob comes and goes, and does so on all channels.

It occured to me that people might draw the wrong conclusion, that I had some
kind of equipment failure since nobody else is seeing this. I have two completely
seperate systems, they don't share anything, not even an antenna. The prob occur at
exactly the same instant on both, and with identical failure mode. That proves
nothing failed/changed on my end. The fact that the stripes are synchronous
to the horizontal sync signal proves it isn't interference.
So, something changed in the video stream at KCNC. Thing is, not everyone is
seeing this, which means that what I'm seeing is a combination of two things:
1. Whatever changed a KCNC, and 2. My particular HDTV decoder.
In other words, Even though something changed in the signal, some/most
tuners are not sensitive to it. I'm unluck enough to just happen to have a tuner that is. The signal from KCNC was just fine until that night, and unfortunately
for me, other people own tuners that are not sensitive to whatever happened
with their signal.
BTW, I get NBC, WB, FOX, PBS just fine, no trace of a problem.

I have a new/different HDTV tuner card due here tomorrow. I'll install it
in my computer and hopefully it won't be sensitive to this defect.

Thanks to all who have commented.

Jeff

Jeff, I watched about 15 minutes of Without a Trace last night as well, and didn't see anything close to resembling what your screenshot showed on any of my receivers - MyHD cards, Dish 942, Dish 921. Picture looked clear to me.

Jeff, I watched about 15 minutes of Without a Trace last night as well, and didn't see anything close to resembling what your screenshot showed on any of my receivers - MyHD cards, Dish 942, Dish 921. Picture looked clear to me.

Update: I just tried a STB, and a different add in card, the HDTV wonder by ATI.
The ATI had the prob, the STB did not. Thing is, I need a PC add in card so I
can record, so any STB is worthless to me, I got it only as a debug tool (goes back
to the store for a full refund. )
Interesting that you found no prob with the MyHD, maybe that is what I need.
Please advise as to pros/cons of your MyHD, what model is it?

Thanks, Jeff

FWIW, I recorded Thursday's CSI on my LG-LST3410a HD DVR and had no stripe issues.

On the other hand early Friday morning during the late night CBS news the CBS eye logo was briefly replaced with a tiny, scale model of about for distinct NTSC color bar screens; very weird…

Just to remind everybody,

It's another week of no full-power OTA DTV. And, not a word of a JeffCo public meeting to even address the issue. Pretty depressing huh?

On the brighter side... I did save some money on my car insurance!

[QUOTE=kucharsk]FWIW, I recorded Thursday's CSI on my LG-LST3410a HD DVR and had no stripe issues.

I thought there were no stand alone hi def DVRs. Is this the only one?

roller11, if the stripe thingy only appears on your PC w/HDTV tuner card, maybe it's only an issue with your video driver or video card (is the HDTV tuner card your video card also {ATI All-in-Wonder}?). I looked back at your posts but you didn't specify exactly which cards/STBs exhibited the problem and which definitely didn't. Was there a STB that did this also?

Yes, there are stand alone DVR's. I've got a JVC SRW-7 W-VHS recorder. It records component HDTV. Works great for archiving HD programs!

Just to remind everybody,

It's another week of no full-power OTA DTV. And, not a word of a JeffCo public meeting to even address the issue. Pretty depressing huh?

On the brighter side... I did save some money on my car insurance!

Cheap car insurance isn't the issue, what we really need is some 'brave soul' to stay a night or two at a Holiday Inn Express and then stop by Jeffco offices and solve the da*m problem the next morning. (You know how it would go, "Are you really God or at least his Son?", "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night".) :D

On another note, I am looking for a new hobby to occupy my time now that my son is finished with high school and slowly moving into his own place in the real world. He is finally reaching the stage where guidance is no longer needed (or at least no longer accepted) and all I will need to do is write the periodic checks to keep him in school and/or off the streets.

I am kicking around some computer upgrade options for the home machine and wonder if any of you who record HD on your computer drives could PM me with some information (websites etc.) on some of the types and varieties of capture cards that might be available out there for a computer? I am particularly interested in how they might interface with (if possible thanks to the MPAA folks) or replace various sources such as OTA receivers, DVR's and other D* and C-Band type equipment as well a component output devices. Also, what software is available and also recommended? A tutorial page would be helpful too if you know of any. If it helps, I would likely be using them in a Mac PPC desktop. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. I am a novice with this stuff, so go easy with your flames about it being impossible thanks to the Hollywood folks.
:D

I'm getting no video and only intermittent audio on 9-2 this afternoon. 9-1 is fine. Question for any of you with Comcast, does the problem also occur on their WeatherPlus channel?

[QUOTE=kucharsk]FWIW, I recorded Thursday's CSI on my LG-LST3410a HD DVR and had no stripe issues.

I thought there were no stand alone hi def DVRs. Is this the only one?

There have been several; there was a Zenith model that predated the LG, there was the LG LST-3410a (now discontinued but still available at many retailers and online), and there are two new but somewhat hard-to-find models available from Sony (read all about them here (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_ViewStatic-Start?page=static%2Farticles%2Fdvr.isml&INT=INT%3Dsstyle-hav-digitalVideoRecorders).)