Jeff - I have 2 MyHD 130s, and they work fine. Their interface is a little clunky, but they are still being actively developed. For more info, do a lot of reading in the HTPC forum here. There are several threads about the card, including one massively long one entitled MyHD 130. Also, look for posts by Cliff Watson - he's the resident MyHD guru.

John - if I remember right, there's only one solution right now for HD recording with a Mac, and it's talked about in the MAC HTPC forum and possibly in the HD Recording forum here. I don't remember what it is off the top of my head, though. I'm PC only with my 3 HTPCs recording OTA HD.

Anyone have any first-hand experience with the OTA ATSC tuners in both the Dish 811 and LG LST-4200A in our anemic signal environment? How do they compare?

John - if I remember right, there's only one solution right now for HD recording with a Mac, and it's talked about in the MAC HTPC forum and possibly in the HD Recording forum here. I don't remember what it is off the top of my head, though. I'm PC only with my 3 HTPCs recording OTA HD.
Mark
thanks for the 'heads up', I never noticed that forum before. I know of some cards, but really want to hear from people who have used them. Sorry to be OT.

Edit:

Woo Hoo, top of the page! Time to go get a lottery ticket to help pay for more new toys. :D

Anybody notice a tiny yellow stripe running down the entire left edge of the frame on KUSA's 009-1 channel? I only see it on that OTA channel and only when the program is HD. I have a DLP that shows the entire video frame (no overscan).

I watched the 10:00 news on KUSA tonight and didn't notice any yellow stripe.

Just in case anyone is interested, the FCC rejected KDBI's first round channel selection for channel 13. Their current ATSC assignment of channel 38 was assigned as their permanent home as this was their alternate choice to channel 13. Now if we could get KRMA to stay on channel 18 rather than reverting to channel 6 at analog shutoff I'd be a happy camper.

Finally, I was channel surfing tonight and noticed that KDEN (the shopping channel in Longmont) had a PQ that looked like a slightly snowy analog picture. KUSA's 9.2 weather channel had much better PQ. I never watch KDEN but I wonder why the PQ was so bad.

At exactly 7:15 PM 6/10/05 on KCNC-DT, a problem developed
in the OTA signal from KCNC-DT (Denver, Co.) The symptom is that
there are fine vertical stripes, precisely two pixels wide.
It's most noticeable in red areas of the image, it appears only
in static or near static scenes, it takes only a slight
amount of motion or panning to make the problem disappear.
The problem exists only in hi def programs, so you won't see
it during the day, only in primetime, generally 7-10 PM
(except 11 - noon during Young and the Restless which is hi def).
I've talked to a couple engineers at KCNC, but they have basically
ignored me, guess it's easier to pretend the problem doesn't exist than
to fix it, despite me sending them screen shots documenting the problem.
The problem is not intermittent it exists all the time in all HD progs.

See attachment, you may have to zoom in. The wall paper in solid red,
but clearly shows stripes.

I would like to hear from anyone in the Denver area about this.

I have also seen these vertical bars for the past week or two. Mainly in peoples faces. I am using a LG3510a.

Now if we could get KRMA to stay on channel 18 rather than reverting to channel 6 at analog shutoff I'd be a happy camper.



I'm more worried about shadowing issues when they move. I receive them just fine now!

OTA Accidental Success

I have had a rooftop mounted antenna for about 2 years and have been able to receive 6-1, 9-1, 31-1 from the Denver metro area and 11-1(CBS) from Colorado Springs. Two weeks ago, our house was hit by lightning which fried a few random things around the house. Naturally, the Samsung TS160 STB was a casualty as the strike was at or near the rooftop antenna. I had to climb up on the roof to replace the balun and re-point the antenna and thought I would try to re-install a Channel Master 7775 pre-amp that never seemed to work 2 years ago. I then plugged the antenna cable into the replacement for the Samsung box, a shiny HR10-250 HD Tivo, and started checking the signal strength for the channels that I had been receiving. I was slightly disappointed to see that the signal strength was about the same for 9-1, 31-1 and 6-1 and that I had totally lost the signal from Colorado Springs. I ran a channel scan for OTA signals to see if anything would improve and got the surprise of my HD life. Lo and behold a 70 strength signal was booming in from frequency 17, aka channel 7-1 KMGH-DT! I can now also get a spotty signal (45-55) from KCNC 4-1.
Needless to say, I am now in HD heaven!

BTW, I can't believe what a waste of bandwidth D* is planning with the LIL HD plan they are working on. Don't people know they can get all the local channels FREE from an OTA antenna!?? ;).

Regarding satellite delivery of locals, it seems that this is a huge profit center for D* and E*. Why wouldn't they want to devote bandwith they can charge $5.95 per month for with little or possibly no cost for the retransmission rights versus carrying some mundane, little watched channel that costs them 10 cents per subscriber but doesn't warrant any increase in monthly programming charges? Besides, many folks don't want to deal with an OTA antenna. I had to move one of my dishes last weekend due to a maple tree growing like crazy this spring and screwing up my reception. It cost me nearly $100 for cable and 'F' connectors for 2 twin LNB's. I surmise that most people would rather spend $5.95 a month rather than spend $75 dollars on a good outside OTA plus $ for cable, etc. D* and E* reap the profits, and they know they can charge $ for convenience.

On another note, does anyone know if KDVR complied with the July 1 dealine to go full power?

I think the previous poster was kidding about DBS HD LIL (;)). If anyone would understand why pay providers need to deliver locals in HD, it should be someone living in the Denver DMA.

I'm surprised D* hasn't moved Denver up on the priority list due to our local HD situation. Many of us can't get it via antenna or cable.

...............
Don't people know they can get all the local channels FREE from an OTA antenna!?? ;).

Sigh! If only that were true! :(
I supposed people would use OTA for digital if they weren't so "(S)CARED".

Actually, the Satco's are forced to do it to compete with local Cableco's. Otherwise you can bet they wouldn't bother.

I don't get any guide data on my 921 if I don't subscribe to locals through E*. Without guide data I can't set timers to fire ahead of time to record OTA. I receive all available HD except channel 7.1 so I pay $5.95 for the guide data only, I never watch the SD locals on E*.

I was kidding about the D* HD LIL. I agree that the Denver market has the most potential for LIL subscribers due to our pathetic OTA situation. I will probably test that product when it becomes avaiilable because my local reception is still somewhat unreliable. Alot will depend on what D* will do about replacing existing HD and HD Tivo STB's once the MPEG-4 compression scheme begins.

I think the previous poster was kidding about DBS HD LIL (;)). If anyone would understand why pay providers need to deliver locals in HD, it should be someone living in the Denver DMA.

I'm surprised D* hasn't moved Denver up on the priority list due to our local HD situation. Many of us can't get it via antenna or cable. Isn't today the dead line. I thought all stations had to be at full power today per the FCC mandate. KUSA and KDVR and the WB are fine here in Loveland, but I am interested to see this eveining if I am receiving KCNC and or KMGH ... from reading this thread both obviously suck city-wide. HD LIL is a waste becuase this could be accomplished even in rural areas through the translator stations. My beddy in Wellington gets FOX just fine from Denver or Ft Collins (his choice).

I was kidding about the D* HD LIL. I agree that the Denver market has the most potential for LIL subscribers due to our pathetic OTA situation. I will probably test that product when it becomes avaiilable because my local reception is still somewhat unreliable. Alot will depend on what D* will do about replacing existing HD and HD Tivo STB's once the MPEG-4 compression scheme begins. The MPEG4 move will be at no cost to the subs ...

HD LIL is a waste becuase this could be accomplished even in rural areas through the translator stations. My beddy in Wellington gets FOX just fine from Denver or Ft Collins (his choice).

Theoretically, HD LIL could be argued to be a waste. I do get Fox and WB from Denver and CBS from Cheyenne. Once (if) the others go full power, it won't be a problem. However, the fact is that people are used to getting all of their stations from one cable, whether it be DBS or Cable. To expect everyone who wants DBS to have an antenna installed and then to not be able to guarantee reception is probably not a workable business plan in 2005.

For all three of us that get KMGH-DT, They are now mulitcasting their Newschannel 24/7 that was on Comcast, OTA on 7-2.

If we have to have it, it actually looks more useful then the 9-2 Weather + channel.

So much for ever having any decent HD bandwith on our local channels when/if ever a tower gets built.

What tower? Is it just me or is this thread (and our situation) been like... dead?
Not a peep on when they might have the new public hearing.

[QUOTE=Phil T]For all three of us that get KMGH-DT, They are now mulitcasting their Newschannel 24/7 that was on Comcast, OTA on 7-2.

Make that all 4 of us. Thanks for the info on the Newschannel, I didn't know that.

(Santellavision) What tower? Is it just me or is this thread (and our situation) been like... dead?
Not a peep on when they might have the new public hearing.


I am one of the fortunate ones who receives all of the network stations, including KMGH. I presume, and I admit that I may be incorrect, that most of the others who visit this thread, with the exception of folks who live, for example, in Ft. Collins, receive everything but KMGH. Since KUSA, KCNC, and KRMA are low power, 13.8 kW or less, and KDVR and KWGN are at about 1/2 power, the issue to me for those who don't receive KMGH doesn't seem to be the tower/(s)CARE issue, it seems to be the fact that KMGH transmits from a relatively low site on top of their building on Speer Blvd with a mere 1.91 kW of ERP. I suspect that if KMGH were to move their lightbulb transmitter to a location similar to Republic and maybe bump their power up to 10 kW, there wouldn't be much concern about building a tower.

Well, it's more than that. For one, if they were full-power, many of us wouldn't have to go through all the rig-a-ma-row (and cost) of putting up big 'ol antennas/cables/pre-amps etc on the roof. We could use small indoor antennas. And two, its really the issue of all the viewers outside of the metro area. They are entitled to a signal just like the rest of us.

In Fort Collins, we don't receive KCNC, KRMA, and for most, no KUSA. If KMGH bumped their power to 10kW, we still wouldn't get it, so the need for a permanent full power solution would remain. With only two HD signals reaching this fairly large county reliably, the current situation is not at all acceptable, and I hope nothing happens to lessen the concern about building a tower.

KWGN helps out the community.

See how broadcasters can work with the community and turn a potential issue into a win-win. Congrats KWGN!

http://www.canyoncourier.com/story_display.php?sid=596

I thought I acknowledged the situation of no full power and it's effect on areas such as Ft. Collins. If I wasn't clear, sorry. The point I was making is that KMGH's placement of its temp transmitter and it's low power were the real issue in the METRO area, not a tower in the foothills. And I certainly am in favor of full power stations on permanent facilities so that the DMA can be adequately served.

As far as the reception situation in Ft. Collins, I am not aware of what can and cannot be received. I wish you could receive the Denver channels. Apparently you are limited to KDVR's satellite transmitter on DT21 and KGWN out of Cheyenne.

Finally, I'd opt for a rooftop antenna (and have even before digital transmissions) just to avoid having to have separate indoor antennas on each of my TV's that always seemed to need to be adjusted for different channels, were affected when you walked by them, and were basically useless for my 2 TV's in the basement. However, if indoor works for you, great. But I don't think full power digital would improve reception in my basement since it doesn't work for analog.

Finally, why is it that no one complains about KTVD not having any digital transmission, not even temp? While I don't watch UPN much, they do carry some Rockies games, for example.

For the record, KCNC, KUSA, KRMA, KMGH and KBDI all use 1kw xmitters. They get different ERPs due to their antenna, location, freq. and other factors. And none of them IMO are currently broadcasting adequately to satisfy anything except their STAs. One can only hope the FCC will grow a pair and threaten to stop renewing the STA and force the broadcasters to do something, ANYTHING, besides maintaining the status quo indefinitely, like they are now. A hard 2009 date for analog cutoff wouldn't hurt either.

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009... That's a lot of years. Pretty soon this might actually be, real years!

Mike,

I get what you were saying. I'm just pretty touchy because we don't have any options. No cable. Not DBS. Just hearing that the tower would not be the issue if KMGH could be like the others gave me a bit of a panic.

Actually, with a CM4228 I can get WB2, Fox 31 (not 21), and Cheyenne 5. Considering the current signal strength of KDVR and KWGN, when they go full power, we will be covered very well.

jpco,

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure it's frustrating. I thought you'd probably receive Fox on 21 since I even get a lock on its signal once in a while down here.

The 21 thing is directional. I took the screen off the 4228 so it's bi-directional. The Denver stations and Cheyenne are opposite each other, and with this alignment there's no signal from 21.

Although we get 5 from Cheyenne well, they have the worst audio that I've ever heard. It comes as 2-channel Dolby Digital, and no matter what mode I use, my receiver can't process it. I really hope that we have SOME option up here for HD locals by the end of the year.

jpco,

I also get KGWN from Cheyenne, but only at night. At night, it comes in at about 75-80%, better than KCNC, the Denver CBS affiliate, which I normally get at about 72-73%. I just checked and the signal is 79%. I've also noticed they have terrible sound although I must admit I don't watch them much. On my Dish 811 receiver, the sound is very tinny. Also, I've noticed that they don't always pass the CBS HD feed. They probably forget to "flip the switch".

I also get blips of signal from DT28. Right now, I'm getting a 40-49 signal that won't lock. Is this KLWY from Cheyenne and do you receive it?

I just checked DT28 and a reading of 0. I'll try tonight and see if it's stronger then. Last I heard, they weren't broadcasting any HD. The Northern Colorado/SE Wyoming OTA thread has been dead lately, so I guess there's no new news. Still we wait...

I presume, and I admit that I may be incorrect, that most of the others who visit this thread, with the exception of folks who live, for example, in Ft. Collins, receive everything but KMGH. Since KUSA, KCNC, and KRMA are low power, 13.8 kW or less, and KDVR and KWGN are at about 1/2 power, the issue to me for those who don't receive KMGH doesn't seem to be the tower/(s)CARE issue, it seems to be the fact that KMGH transmits from a relatively low site on top of their building on Speer Blvd with a mere 1.91 kW of ERP. I suspect that if KMGH were to move their lightbulb transmitter to a location similar to Republic and maybe bump their power up to 10 kW, there wouldn't be much concern about building a tower.


I just wanted to add my results here. Up in Greeley, I can get Fox 31 and WB 2 in HD. That's it. Nothing out of KCNC, KMGH or KUSA. Oh, no PBS either (I can get 12 but it's not HD). I CAN get KGWN, CBS out of Cheyenne.

Cable isn't even an option in HD up here, so I'm one that's hoping for the HD locals on DirecTv this fall as rumored. But in the mean time, I spend most of my time watching from my "Canadian Summer Home", so I'm not watching Denver stations most of the time.

Has anyone else noticed a drop in KBDI-DT (38) signal strength?

It used to be about the strongest digital channel for me, around 90 on the scale. Nowadays it seems to be in the 60s. I notice they aren't mapping to 12-X anymore either.

It sure would be nice for them to carry some of the PBS HD/widescreen stuff.

Mark

It sure would be nice for them to carry some of the PBS HD/widescreen stuff.And why would they want to do that? That costs money to buy all the ancillary equipment.

Has anyone else noticed a drop in KBDI-DT (38) signal strength?

It used to be about the strongest digital channel for me, around 90 on the scale. Nowadays it seems to be in the 60s. I notice they aren't mapping to 12-X anymore either.

It sure would be nice for them to carry some of the PBS HD/widescreen stuff.

Mark


I don't watch them much because it isn't HD, but I just checked and I can't get a signal at all.

And I agree - I wish they'd show some PBS HD stuff as well.

KBDI’s signal strength hasn’t budged here.

Nine months ago I asked KBDI if they would be adding HDTV programming. Thanks to the handy search feature that Gmail has, I actually found that email back after all this time.

Here’s the reply I got:
Thank you for inquiring about KBDI Channel 12's digital programming schedules. In the interest of responding to diverse programming interests, KBDI elected to first launch three separate digital programming schedules: the replication of our analog schedule, PBS You- which offers additional great
public television programming, and PBS Kids- a 24/7 safe haven schedule with programming appropriate for children and pre-teens.

However, KBDI Channel 12 has not made this multi-cast decision at the cost of HD programming; we will be including High Definition programming in the coming year. Due to current technical considerations associated with the large bandwidth required to deliver a High Definition program, it would
come at the cost of the other digital channels.

Please stay tuned, as we expand our digital programming to include both our multi-casting service as well as the inclusion of High Definition programming.

Kim Johnson
Vice President of Broadcast Operations


Still waiting…

I'm just happy that KRMA hasn't caught the multi-casting bug yet.

...On another note, does anyone know if KDVR complied with the July 1 dealine to go full power?
Oh boy, finally Fox in HD! HD Football, yippee!!!!

Reality check.

I just rescanned, and at my site, the scan as always picks up 32, but also as always, the signal isn't strong enough to view. So much for the deadline eh?

However, I did get one newbie, 7-2, oh boy, 24hr weather. The thrill is almost too much. I guess I s/b happy, I can't get 9-1 or 9-2, or KDVR, so instead of football on Fox, I can watch weather 24hrs a day. Woopee, isn't that what The Weather Channel is for?

Sigh,
....jc

roller11, if the stripe thingy only appears on your PC w/HDTV tuner card, maybe it's only an issue with your video driver or video card (is the HDTV tuner card your video card also {ATI All-in-Wonder}?). I looked back at your posts but you didn't specify exactly which cards/STBs exhibited the problem and which definitely didn't. Was there a STB that did this also?

No, that's not it. The screwup occured at exactly the same time on two completely
seperate systems that share nothing, not even an antenna. Therefore, whatever it was,
it's in common with both systems. There is exactly one thing in common, and that is
KCNC's signal. As far as my vid card/drivers, they worked just fine on
KCNC for the two years prior to 7:15 PM June 10, 2005.

I have now tried 3 different cards (fusion 2, 5 and ATI's HDTV wonder.)
all have the problem. I tried a STB it did not have the problem.
A clue is that commercials during HDTV programs all have the prob. Same commercial
suring non-HDTV do not have the prob. Significant since all commercials
are up converted NTSC.

Another thing I noticed is that some HD progs have this "stripes" prob worse than others.
For example, "numbers" and "cold case" tend to be washed out,
so most of the time it is barely noticeable. On CSI:xxx and "NCIS" Joan of Arcadia
Still Standing the prob is
much more apparent. Mind you, it is there 100% of the time on all HD progs.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has checked this out and has determined
whether or not they are seeing this since obviously some STB's
are completely insensitive to this prob.

KWGN helps out the community.

See how broadcasters can work with the community and turn a potential issue into a win-win. Congrats KWGN!

http://www.canyoncourier.com/story_display.php?sid=596

But, I'm sure that an expansion to the current location couldn't possibly fall under "same use", and as such will be forced to go through the rezoning process as storage of a donated tanker truck is obviously a different use than storage of a purchased tanker truck. Fortunately, though, the fire district has a small outhouse building onsite that can be used to house the expansion "temporarily", so that they can receive the donated tanker truck.

Because, we all know that expansions to fire houses cause brain cancer and talking toasters...

Is anything going with KRMA's tower at Mt. Morrison yet? It's been over 2 years since the approval. Is another summer construction season going to waste?

Mark

Mark,
I drive up the I-70 hill everyday and haven't seen anything visual happening yet. Oh... they did some improvements by widening the road up the site.

Hey, I’ll take anything I can get at this point. Even if it is, just a wider road…

Anybody notice a tiny yellow stripe running down the entire left edge of the frame on KUSA's 009-1 channel? I only see it on that OTA channel and only when the program is HD. I have a DLP that shows the entire video frame (no overscan).

No, don't see it.

I moved upstairs in my place and moved my antenna with me to the other side of the building thinking higher would be better, well it has actually made my reception worse! I have an amplified antenna but ever since I got rid of my Voom box it doesn't seem like the antenna is working to its full potential. If I were to buy an amplifier would that help? Or would investing in a new antenna be another solution? I do still recieve all stations but they break up quite abit and it is getting annoying :(

I have also seen these vertical bars for the past week or two. Mainly in peoples faces. I am using a LG3510a.

I've talked to Jim Brus, engineering manager at KCNC. He says that
he won't try to fix the problem until more people complain about it.
Please contact him and ask him to fix it.

Jeff

Theoretically, HD LIL could be argued to be a waste. I do get Fox and WB from Denver and CBS from Cheyenne. Once (if) the others go full power, it won't be a problem. However, the fact is that people are used to getting all of their stations from one cable, whether it be DBS or Cable. To expect everyone who wants DBS to have an antenna installed and then to not be able to guarantee reception is probably not a workable business plan in 2005. Well the MCP's should all build in OTA receivers since it has not been a secret since 1996 that this was coming down the pipe.

I moved upstairs in my place and moved my antenna with me to the other side of the building thinking higher would be better, well it has actually made my reception worse!I wish I had a dollar for everytime I posted this. (No offense quin)

Receiving OTA DTV in the Denver market with almost all low-power transmitters is truly a game of inches. If you move your antenna just a little (in any direction), it could make a big difference. We are at the mercy of tons of reflections from everything from buildings, trees, hills, that old junker sitting in your neighbors yard etc. You might get be helped or hurt by all of the above. Just keep testing different locations... inch by inch!

It was the best of days; it was the worst of days! I’m convinced that a full-power OTA signal for all the Denver stations is years away. In addition, I have my qualms about going back to Comcast’s part analog, part digital offering, not to mention my wife’s insistence that they cost more for the same products. So, I decided to take my smallest UHF antenna (Winegard PR-9018 w/ ChannelMaster pre-amp) outside for some reception experiments. When placed in the least obtrusive location about 20+ feet above ground, I got the same 49 to 56 with an occasional half second jump to 61 for channel 17, that I’ve a occasionally achieved in my attic. No channel lock. I did get channel 29 (first time ever) from the backside in the low 60’s.

However, going to the fireplace chimney structure and 30 feet above ground, I finally locked channel 17. Signal reading on my Dish 811 was 61 to 64 with some occasional dropouts when the wind kicked up. I was elated. I’ve been pursuing a lock of all available digital channels since December 2003 and this is the first time I’ve locked channel 17; although, this isn’t the first time I’ve had an antenna outside.

Well things were great for the moment. While I’m thinking about what antenna I could mount in this location to get a stronger signal, I get the wife to watch "Hope & Faith" in HD. It didn’t work! Convincing the wife that is. We aren’t going to have our house look like something out of the Fifties she says. I tell her that antennas are making a comeback due to DTV. She notes that there are still the same two antennas in our subdivision that there were years ago, so they aren’t making a comeback here.

I noted that Dish Network isn’t going to have locals in HD for some time to come and full strength OTA signals are years away. So I can’t watch MNF in HD, or Lost in HD. Plus the Super Bowl is on ABC this season. She won’t bend on the outside antenna. My only concession from her is that I can put up one of my antenna’s on a temporary fixture, like I’m using today, to watch the Super Bowl, but no permanent outdoor antenna. Bummer!

Since domestic tranquility is very important, I dropped my sales pitch and went out and retrieved my PR-9018 from its temporary, spring-clamp mount. I did note that all of my other DTV channels from that direction were at about the same signal strength reading as I achieved from in the attic. The exception was channel 46, which jumped from the mid-60's to the low 80's.

Must be the elevation. But, undaunted, I just may try another antenna in the attic. Through recent experiments I've learned that my attic reception is mostly through the roof, not the walls. The walls block signal, which renders my bay/bowtie antenna less effective, even though its rated gain is much higher than the PR-9018 Yagi. With a Yagi style antenna I can up-angle the antenna to basically point out the roof. With the bay, most of the antenna is blocked by the wall. Maybe a bigger Yagi in the attic?

I did some research on the FCC site and many of the other avs local threads over the past couple of days regarding the "Big 4" requirement to be full power on 7-1-05. I'm not too sure the FCC site is fully up to date, but that's more of my opinion that fact. Here's what I found:

KCNC's STA expired 7-1-05. They filed for an extension of the STA on 7-6-05 but no action is noted. KUSA's and KMGH's STA's also expired on 7-1-05. They have filed nothing regarding extensions. KDVR is fully licensed until 6-7-07 for 223 kW ERP. They have a construction permit to go full power, 1,000 kW, but apparently are not required to do so until they shut off their analog signal.

Since the Springs is the 92nd largest DMA, their "Big 4" were also under the 7-1-05 deadline for full power. KKTV is fully licensed on Ch. 10 with an ERP of 20.1 kW. KXRM is also fully licensed on Ch. 22 with an ERP of 51 kW. KRDO was granted an extension of their STA until 10-19-05. KOAA never applied for an STA. They are not on the air and have been granted an extension until 11-12-05 to go full power.

While the other Denver and Springs stations are not required to go full power until 7-1-06, I researched them anyway. KWGN's STA expired 3-28-05. They did not file for an extension until 4-19-05, which was granted until 10-19-05. KTVD, which has not operated under an STA, received a STA extension until 8-11-05. KRMA received an extension of its STA until 10-6-05. KXPC, which also has not operated under an STA, received an extension until 11-29-05. KDEN received an extension of its STA until 11-12-05. KRMT never applied for an STA. It's construction permit for full power was extended to 12-22-05. KWHD applied for an extension of its STA on 6-30-05. No action is reported on the FCC site. KCEC has an STA that expires on 8-23-05. KTFD's STA expires 8-11-05. KTSC has an STA extension until 8-2-05.

I'm not quite sure what the point is with the FCC regarding the non "Big 4" and why stations are filing for extension of STA's if the FCC isn't requiring full power until 7-1-06. Oh well.

Around the country, all I can say is we are not alone. The following is from other threads in the top 100 DMA's.

WESH, NBC in Orlando, is apparently off the air more than its on the air. WDAF, Fox in Kansas City, has openly stated in emails to avs members that it will not be full power until at least 11-30-05 and it apparently hasn't bothered to file an STA extension request with the FCC. The Fox affiliate in Memphis, WHBQ, is not full power. WLOS, ABC in Ashville, NC, is not on the air. KFXA in Cedar Rapids is not at full power. WOI in Des Moines predicts it will be full power by 8-1-05 but hasn't filed an STA extension request with the FCC. WHBF in Rock Island, IL is not full power and has not filed for an STA extension. KCCI in Des Moines is not full power but filed an STA extension request on 6-29-05 with no action noted on the FCC site. WHO in Des Moines is also not full power and has not filed an STA extension request. I also noted similar situations in Hartford and Albany but I couldn't tie down much in the way of facts from the avs threads.

It is certainly evident that not only in Denver, but in various other parts of the country, that stations have literally blown off the 7-1-05 full power deadline. If the FCC was as diligent with adherence to the digital conversion guidelines as they are with "decency", perhaps we'd have better compliance. It would be nice if the FCC levied some fines on these stations that will not comply, including Denver's (who just rely on sCARE as an excuse). If they did, perhaps these stations would take the digital transition more seriously. I propose that the FCC levy fines equal to the electric bills that would have been incurred had the stations gone full power. That way, these rogue stations would have nothing to gain by delaying and waiting until the last minute to comply with the 7-1-05 guideline. And what do you think will happen when the bell tolls at 7-1-06?

That's my 2 cents for today.

Great information and great post MHM, thanks!

CEB,

Have you tried getting her a full day spa package at the Tall Grass Spa in Evergreen???? It's amazing what that'll get 'ya! :)

CEB,

It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. :)

(Ernie's advice was good, too, if the forgiveness doesn't happen quickly)

CEB,

You locked 17 from Arvada? Wow! What's the closest major intersection to your location? Also, could you detail how you went about this as I may have to try it myself. I have an attic antenna and get everything but 17 now, but if D* TV experiences any more delays getting HD Lil rolled out I may get desperate. My strategy for dealing with any concerns my wife might have: I won't tell her. She never looks up there anyway.

BTW, looking at the upcoming Donko schedule I'd say we have a shot at 14 HD games with Jax and Miami most likely being SD.

I talked with, I think that it was 'Mike' at KDVR on Friday. He told me that their HD signal will not be boosted until their analog signal is shut off. He said something about the fact that between their analog & digital signals, they are at their allowable radiation. So, with my current reception, it would be several more years w/o Fox football.

That is simply unacceptable!!!!

I've thought about moving one of my D* receivers into the Denver DMA, but that's going to be a lot of $$$. I am still going to try and rotate my antenna to see if I can pick up KXRM in the Springs. But, with a good portion of Pike's Peak in the way, that is probably a 'pipe dream'. So, it's time to quit dinking around and get serious!!!.

While I've got a decent antenna, that picks up 4, 5(Cheyenne), 6, 7*, & 12*, I can't pick up the others. However, 2, sometimes 9, and 31(Fox), are being programmed when I scan. So, it 'sees' them, there just isn't enough signal to view them.

So, I'm looking for ideas for the biggest, nastiest, meanest, mofo of an antenna that anyone can think up! I've got a short tower, and the 'covenant police' leave me alone, so pretty much anything that can be mounted on it goes.

How about twin DB8's. Anyone tried that? Maybe stacking 2 antennas. Let's hear some ideas!!!!!

I'm also going to rewire the whole thing. Out goes the RG-6, it's time for QS RG-11. Every dB that I can squeek out, may make the difference.

Remember folk's, it's only 27 days until the 1st preseason game!
....jc

I talked with, I think that it was 'Mike' at KDVR on Friday. He told me that their HD signal will not be boosted until their analog signal is shut off. He said something about the fact that between their analog & digital signals, they are at their allowable radiation. So, with my current reception, it would be several more years w/o Fox football.

That is simply unacceptable!!!!

I've thought about moving one of my D* receivers into the Denver DMA, but that's going to be a lot of $$$. I am still going to try and rotate my antenna to see if I can pick up KXRM in the Springs. But, with a good portion of Pike's Peak in the way, that is probably a 'pipe dream'. So, it's time to quit dinking around and get serious!!!.

While I've got a decent antenna, that picks up 4, 5(Cheyenne), 6, 7*, & 12*, I can't pick up the others. However, 2, sometimes 9, and 31(Fox), are being programmed when I scan. So, it 'sees' them, there just isn't enough signal to view them.

So, I'm looking for ideas for the biggest, nastiest, meanest, mofo of an antenna that anyone can think up! I've got a short tower, and the 'covenant police' leave me alone, so pretty much anything that can be mounted on it goes.

How about twin DB8's. Anyone tried that? Maybe stacking 2 antennas. Let's hear some ideas!!!!!

I'm also going to rewire the whole thing. Out goes the RG-6, it's time for QS RG-11. Every dB that I can squeek out, may make the difference.

Remember folk's, it's only 27 days until the 1st preseason game!
....jc


D* ST + HD Tax will get you about 75% of the Fox games. The majority of NFC games blacked out will be Green Bay with Brett Favre doing his farewell tour.

As far as the antenna goes, a little research on the web will result in getting the best dB gain UHF antenna you can get. Any chance on building a new bigger digital super tower for your antenna without the NIMBY's butting in?

Don

D* ST + HD Tax will get you about 75% of the Fox games. The majority of NFC games blacked out will be Green Bay with Brett Favre doing his farewell tour.
Don,
I really don't need all of the games. I have to get other things done! And, ST, is just more $$$ to D*.
...Any chance on building a new bigger digital super tower for your antenna without the NIMBY's butting in?
The tower, is what it is: 29', freestanding, with 4' buried in about 7 cubic yards of concrete. Extending it further upward, may require guy wires, which I do not want. The NIMBY's aren't really a problem, they tried that crap when we were building the house, and I stood my ground. In fact, they just revised the covenants, and they stayed away from from my tower. I am located on a 2 acre lot(all lots are at least 2 acres), in between Woodland Park & Divide, so it's not exactly suburbia. Antenna height is not really the problem, I've got a clear shot towards Denver for 25 - 30 miles, before other mountains become a factor(and I already pick up KMGH).

I just need a little better antenna situation, and I'll be set!

Thanks,
....jc

TotallyPreWired,

As I noted in my July 9 post, KDVR, even though they are one of the Big 4, was not required to go full power on July 1 and are, in fact, considered fully licensed at their current 223 kW ERP. There's nothing on the FCC site that I could find that supports their apparent exception to the full power rule - legal problems, exceeding radiation limits, etc. Perhaps an email to the FCC might help.

For alternatives to KDVR, their translator in Ft. Collins, KFCT, is currently operating on a meager 0.88 kW on DT21. However, I have locked them before (from Highlands Ranch) and I just checked and they are showing between 40 and 57 on my Dish 811. I need 60 to lock. They filed an STA extension request on May 18, but the FCC site has not posted the actual application or any action taken. They are due to go to 1000 kW at full power, whenever that may be, although it could be well before KDVR does. I get their analog signal with rabbit ears.

Another alternative might be KLWY, the Fox station in Cheyenne. I posted on the Cheyenne thread (no response) about this station because I have been getting intermittent signal of 40-49 on my Dish 811, although most of the time it's zero. Right now, I'm getting zero. They are on DT28 and their STA to operate at 6.46 kW expired June 3. The FCC site does not reflect any application for extention of the STA. Their full power construction permit calls for 500 kW.

I cannot get any signal on KXRM, maybe because their signal on DT22 is the same frequency as KFCT's analog channel 22 - interference. I think, more likely from my location, its the Palmer Divide.

As far as antennas, the only one I might suggest you look at, since everyone seems to talk about the DB8, XG91, etc. are the Antennacraft HD1800 and HD1850 models. They are combo vhf/uhf and, as a result, are rather large with booms of about 15 feet but when KRMA, KMGH, and KUSA go back to their vhf channels after analog turnoff, you may need a vhf antenna from your location. (This is not a recommendation as I don't have one and haven't run across any gain figures, etc.) A google search will find their website. Distributor is in Iowa.

How about twin DB8's. Anyone tried that? Maybe stacking 2 antennas. Let's hear some ideas!!!!! Hee's a link concerning stacking http://www.kyes.com/antenna/stackluge.html (from Ernies Links page)

Originally posted by AwesomeFloyd:
You locked 17 from Arvada? Wow! What's the closest major intersection to your location? Also, could you detail how you went about this as I may have to try it myself. I have an attic antenna and get everything but 17 now, but if D* TV experiences any more delays getting HD Lil rolled out I may get desperate. My strategy for dealing with any concerns my wife might have: I won't tell her. She never looks up there anyway.

I'm near 68th and Simms along Ralston Creek. My house is lower (because of being creek-side) than the houses and terrain SE of me (direction to KMGH), but with some up-tilt on the antenna and nothing in my path for at least a quarter mile, I think I got some favorable bounced signal.

I used my Winegard PR-9018 Yagi because it has been a good performer in my attic (equal to my PR-8800) and it was a heck of lot easier to cart up on the roof than the PR-8800. Besides, I knew if the wife saw the big ugly PR-8800 on the roof, she'd have a cow. I pointed the antenna right at the KMGH azimuth from antennaweb and used a CM 7775 pre-amp w/ 60 feet of coax to my Dish 811. From my attic, I have always been able to "see" channel 17 (49 to 55 strengh), but could never lock it, no matter which of 4 antennas I used or where I placed them in the attic.

KCNC digital "stripes" problem update:

Today I figured out why some are seeing the famous "stripes" in their HDTV displays while others
aren't. I connected a standard STB to my Samsung 61" (native 1280x720), no stripes. I connected
it to my LCD monitor, 1920x1200 resolution, stripes! This is why most/all PC HDTV tuners
have the problem, STBs typically don't. STB's are usually connected to a display
with 1280x720. The 3:2 downscaling that occurs to scale the pic from 1920x1080
to 1280x720 'filters' the image so of course you don't see the stripes. Connect the same
STB to a 1920x1080 display and you will see the stripes. Also, using a digital
connection (DVI or HDMI) the problem more clearly. Even so, if your
STB is set to output 1920x1080, you will see the problem even if using RGB or component
connections, but it is less noticeable.
PC tuners, on the other hand, always output whatever format the signal is (1920x1080 for KCNC) and rely on the HDTV to scale to the image to it's native resolution.

I would like for anyone who has access to a 1920x1080 display, either a HDTV or even
any PC monitor that has 1920x1200 native res to set their STB output to 1920x1080 and
drive their display, preferably with DVI or HDMI. Check hi red content in still scenes,
best place to look is close ups of people faces, lips, etc. Scene must be still or
near still. Please report your findings to this forum
and include all pertinent specs/info.

Jeff

Didn't the latest rules provide for out of market locals in areas where full power is not online?

When does that kick in?

Seems like a great way to get the local broadcasters moving.

Didn't the latest rules provide for out of market locals in areas where full power is not online?

When does that kick in?

Seems like a great way to get the local broadcasters moving.
David,
There are provisions(not yet written) for digital 'white areas', wherein, if you can not receive a signal, you may be eligible for DNS. However, like I said, these rules are not written, nor are they implemented.

What the FCC should've done, was that once 07/01 came around, and you lived in an area w/o a full power digital signal from any station, that then you would be eligible for DNS for that stations' network. Currently, that would've included every station in the Denver DMA. Of course, station's don't want you viewing another station(DNS), so maybe that would've put a little fire under their butts.

The FCC has failed everyone in the Denver DMA(and many others), by not creating incentives(and penalties) for local broadcasters to meet the 07/01 deadline. So, as it stands, we won't be seeing full power digital broadcasts here, until the the analog cutoff date. Which I'm sure will be pushed out well past 12/31/06.

Myself, still needing Fox, Nbc & Wb2, I'm consulting with antenna experts to try and find a solution. I will be receiving an 91XG tomorrow, to start playing with. That single antenna alone, may not solve the problem, so I am prepared to get another and 'stack' them. I'm not about to surrender to sCARE, they can kiss my a$$.

....jc

According to the Denver Post today, D* and groups representing station owners and cable companies testified to Congress that they can live with and meet a 12-31-08 analog shutoff deadline. Looks like 3 1/2 more years of low power DTV in Denver.

In a brighter note, the FCC moved the date for all TV's with a 13" screen or larger, and any TV reception device w/o a screen, to have a digital tuner, from 07/01/07 to 12/31/06(the original analog cutoff date).

Now common sense would've indicated, that the actual date should have been at least 1 year earlier(12/31/05), instead of letting people buy sets that would be worthless(w/o a stb) once the transition had happened. So, our government at work here: The original analog cutoff date was 12/31/06, but retailers could still sell some analog TV's until 07/01/07.

Makes sense to me :eek:
....jc

Sadly, most people in the Denver DMA will miss the 'transition' part of the transition (except for Fox and WB). The purchase of new digital-ready TVs is greatly de-valued by those responsible for this mess. Essentially, they have robbed the Denver viewers. But, so what else is new...

Jeff - no KCNC stripes here when viewed on my RPTV (1080i), with STBs outputting 1080i.

Jeff - no KCNC stripes here when viewed on my RPTV (1080i), with STBs outputting 1080i.

Thanks Mark. Any CRT, Rear projection or direct view, will not show the
problem. The display must be fixed pixel, 1920x1080 or higher native resolution.
For example, any LCD computer monitor with 1920x 1200 native resolution.
LCD's 19" or less are 1280x1024. Direct view LCD televisions of sufficiently
large size also may be 1920x1080.
Previously, I had thought it was a tuner problem some tuners/STBs
were sensitive to the problem, others were not.
Now that I know that any STB is capable of revealing the defect in
KCNC's signal, (given the proper display device)
it will be difficult for KCNC to continue to ignore the problem since it is 100%
repeatable.

Jeff

Go to the following link: http://co.jefferson.co.us/ext/dpt/coadm/pubinfo/pressrel/2005/tower_hearing_sched_for_aug.htm

I only hope the commissioners do their job and limit testimony to issues related to tower failure. IIRC, the sCARE propganda on tower failure was only about an hour long, and there should only be a handful of people who would be directly impacted by an existing tower failure, so they should be able to get the hearing done that day.

We can only hope...but we all know how these commissioners feel about the tower...

How can the BCC limit testimony to a particular subject? Are questions pre-screened or does the Board make an anouncement prior to all testimony that only this single topic can be discussed? I wonder if the Board will adequetely enforce the limited scope of testimony or if we will hear continuous yammerings about talking toasters, invisible death rays and other perceived dangers.

I've talked to Jim Brus, engineering manager at KCNC. He says that
he won't try to fix the problem until more people complain about it.
Please contact him at 3038306313 and ask him to fix it.

Jeff


Hi,

I just got my first HDTV on Monday ( 32" Sharp Aquios LC-G5C32U from Costco ).

I'm near the corner of S. Wadsworth & Belleview with a Terk Indoor HDTV antenna.

One of the first shows I saw in HD was CSI: Miami and I didn't like it because the people had vertical lines in their faces.

Since I was so new to HD and was setting up my stuff for the first time, I assumed that I had something set up wrong.

I'll watch CSI: Miami again and see if the vertical lines are there again. Then, I'll read your back posts to get a feel for what CBS is doing wrong, so I can call and file a complaint for the right thing.

Thanks - for making me feel like my HD is good.

I have a pro-610hd set that the bozo's from SoundTrack have been trying to repair since 6/23. Now they want to pick it up for repair, but forgot to schedule with the dispatch center. I'm extremely frustrated and would like a recommendation from someone on a good repair center. I live in Parker but I just want someone who can fix the thing in the Denver/Parker area.

We can only hope...but we all know how these commissioners feel about the tower...

They will probably find some reason to start the process over from the beginning again. :(

...One of the first shows I saw in HD was CSI: Miami and I didn't like it because the people had vertical lines in their faces.

Since I was so new to HD and was setting up my stuff for the first time, I assumed that I had something set up wrong.
You're on the right track.

I'll watch CSI: Miami again and see if the vertical lines are there again. Then, I'll read your back posts to get a feel for what CBS is doing wrong, so I can call and file a complaint for the right thing.
You're on the wrong track.

First step: Take the 'Terk' shove it somewhere, or maybe use it as a doorstop.
Second step: Buy a real antenna, and place it outside.
Third step: Hire someone to set the system up for you.

While the broadcasters occaisonally put out garbage, it's doubtfull, that they'll be bringing Dan Rather out of retirement, to fly to Denver, to solve your problem.
...jc

Take the 'Terk' shove it somewhere

But, my Terk is getting me ABC in HD OTA. I thought that getting ABC was like finding the Holy Grail.

Lost yesterday looked fantastic.

Welcome to the thread Durvivor!

Durvivor is a coworker of mine who I've known for over a decade (we went to school together in Calgary before moving to Denver). I've been hounding him to go HDTV for at least a couple years now - no easy task, especially given our pathetic OTA situation.

Durvivor lives in a condo, so his antenna options are limited. I told him to expect Fox and WB, and that's it, given his only choice is a little indoor antenna. When he got his setup, he just went and got the first little antenna he could find, which happened to be a Terk. When I heard that (I'd recommended the Silver Sensor to him), I told him to forget getting anything but WB and Fox. Imagine my surprise when he comes into work and tells me that he gets all the stations, including the mythical KMGH-DT! So now I naturally hate him. Too bad he's my boss :)

TPW - come on, none of us expect corporate network personalities to help us with digital TV issues. But we've had great support here over the years from most of the stations' engineers when there are technical issues. I assume Durvivor's point was that he didn't want to complain to the station until/unless he knew something specific was wrong with their signal.

For the record, I'm not seeing any issues with KCNC's HD picture, either, but I'm using a 1080i RPTV like markdl, which I believe roller11 has stated will not exhibit the problem. I'd hesitate to call the issue 100% repeatable until we have another person who can see the problem.

By the way, unless Pat changed his name sometime in the last couple of years, it's Pat Brus at KCNC who's the chief engineer now, not Jim Brus. Of course, I suppose that Jim could be a family member of Pat's... :)

...Durvivor lives in a condo, so his antenna options are limited. I told him to expect Fox and WB, and that's it, given his only choice is a little indoor antenna.
I guess that depends on your priorities. Since the 70's, when I lived in apartments, I hung antennas from the ceiling, so that I could pick up distant FM signals.

...I assume Durvivor's point was that he didn't want to complain to the station until/unless he knew something specific was wrong with their signal.
And, I thought that it was pretty funny, that someone with a new toy, was ready to start calling the stations, because it didn't work right.

Never the less, the Terk is widely regarded, how should I state this, as less than a precision piece of equipment.

Durvivor, it looks like you are in a 'sweet spot', so don't move until the stations start broadcasting in high power.
....jc

By the way, unless Pat changed his name sometime in the last couple of years, it's Pat Brus at KCNC who's the chief engineer now, not Jim Brus. Of course, I suppose that Jim could be a family member of Pat's... :)

LOL! Yeah, I sure messed up on that one :) I want to talk to him
now that I can tell him how to duplicate the problem.

Jeff

Since the 70's, when I lived in apartments, I hung antennas from the ceiling, so that I could pick up distant FM signals.Do you have your HDTV sitting on milk-crates too? ;)

Hi,

I just got my first HDTV on Monday ( 32" Sharp Aquios LC-G5C32U from Costco ).

I'm near the corner of S. Wadsworth & Belleview with a Terk Indoor HDTV antenna.

One of the first shows I saw in HD was CSI: Miami and I didn't like it because the people had vertical lines in their faces.

Since I was so new to HD and was setting up my stuff for the first time, I assumed that I had something set up wrong.

I'll watch CSI: Miami again and see if the vertical lines are there again. Then, I'll read your back posts to get a feel for what CBS is doing wrong, so I can call and file a complaint for the right thing.

Thanks - for making me feel like my HD is good.

Would you *PLEASE* call David Layne at 303-861-4444 (main number) and advise him of this.
Also, Pat Brus at 303 830-6491. KCNC's position is that there is
nothing wrong with their signal, so they have no intention of
looking into this.
email Dlayne@cbs.com (manager of operations)

Do you have your HDTV sitting on milk-crates too? ;)
I tried, they weren't strong enough(the sucker is heavy). 16" spoked wheels did the trick though! :D

Is it just me or does channel 35 (4-01) KCNC have a weaker signal very early in the morning that increases in strength throughout the day? I noticed the other morning at 0500 that I couldn't even lock 35, but by 0630 I had a signal in the low 60s. I usually watch KUSA and FOXNews at this time, so I don't really have any prior history. This morning, starting about 0730 I saw a signal in the high 60's, which is now back to it's usual (for my current configuration) low 70's. Anyone else see this kind of activity? Any ideas as to what's up with it?

Is it just me or does channel 35 (4-01) KCNC have a weaker signal very early in the morning that increases in strength throughout the day? I noticed the other morning at 0500 that I couldn't even lock 35, but by 0630 I had a signal in the low 60s. I usually watch KUSA and FOXNews at this time, so I don't really have any prior history. This morning, starting about 0730 I saw a signal in the high 60's, which is now back to it's usual (for my current configuration) low 70's. Anyone else see this kind of activity? Any ideas as to what's up with it?

The reason signal strength varies "all over the map" is due to the characteristics of
the ionosphere. You can think of it as a "barrier" that has variable permeability.
Sometimes, the signal bounces off and thus the signal you see will be strong. Other times, the signal will tend to go right through, so weak signal.

"Stripes" problem fixed!
At 11:30 AM on July 15, I tuned in "Young and the Restless" and there was no trace
of the problem, AKA "lines in the faces". I think it is deplorable that KCNC has known
about this problem for over a month, and they are JUST NOW getting around to fixing it.
Personally, I've *wasted* about two hundred dollars buying various tuners, STB's
etc. just trying to find a work around figuring that KCNC would never fix. How many
people have taken back TVs, monitor, tuners to the TV retailers (like Costco) thinking that
the problem was with their equipment? How many HDTVs are in the shop now to fix
a problem that was with KCNC all along?

I talked to Tom Corwin, Pat Brus, David Layne...all these guys were in total denial
telling me that it was "local interference" or a problem with my equipment.
They said there was absolutely NO WAY the problem was on their end, evidenced
by the fact they told me to "take a hike" whenever I called.
One thing for sure...had I not constantly sent pics, harrassed them with phone calls,
Emails, etc. nothing would have ever been done. In the end, I believe they read
Duvivors tale about how he blamed his new LCD TV for this problem. I cut and pasted
a quote from his post into an Email and sent it to Pat Brus, and followed up with a call
to Pat. Maybe that did it, dunno.
KCNC's engineers have one job: maintain their signal, and yet they couldn't be bothered
EVEN WHEN it was brought to their attention 4 weeks ago that their was a problem.
They should be EXTREMELY ashamed of themselves.

For those who haven't been following this story, there was a "glitch" on June 10, 2005
at exactly 7:15 PM and 5 seconds, that's when their signal went bad. They knew about this on June 13 (cause I told them) and finally got around to fixing it today, July 15...disgusting!

Unbelievable, roller11...they fix it, and that's what you have to say about it...

Edit after Ernie's post below. I think your post is way out of line, roller11, but that's just my opinion after having very positive dealings with Pat, David and the rest of the KCNC crew over the past few years.

I harken back two years ago when KCNC had lots of problems with their "tinny" sound. We on AVS and the engineers worked together to solve the problem. While it took a while, they certainly didn't deserve any shame or criticism at that time, and I feel the same way now.

I never saw any vertical lines myself, but I don't watch much TV in the summer anyway. In the past, when I called or sent email about an issue, they did pay attention.

Everybody cool off a bit. Let's call it a draw - OK? Problem fixed. I know it's about a 100˚. But, we need to stick together, especially with the 'HUGE' LCGII hearing(s) next month. If that fails... This thread will freakin' explode!

Unbelievable, roller11...they fix it, and that's what you have to say about it...

Edit after Ernie's post below. I think your post is way out of line, roller11, but that's just my opinion after having very positive dealings with Pat, David and the rest of the KCNC crew over the past few years.

So it's perfectly alright for KCNC to deliberately ignore a severe problem
for 5 weeks, when they knew about it virtually the entire time?? Refusing
to even look into it??? You say that's acceptable?

Considering all the money I'm out, not to mention the hours I spent
doing KCNC's job for them, I think I have a right to correctly point out who's the bad guy here.

Everybody cool off a bit. Let's call it a draw - OK? Problem fixed. I know it's about a 100˚. But, we need to stick together, especially with the 'HUGE' LCGII hearing(s) next month. If that fails... This thread will freakin' explode!

What is LCGII hearings?

...........especially with the 'HUGE' LCGII hearing(s) next month. If that fails... This thread will freakin' explode!


5......................4...........................3........ .....................2........................

:eek:

This was just a test of the 'large explosion' emergency early warning system. At the time of a 'real explosion' in August, the counting will continue to the time of the extemely loud 'KA_BOOM'.
:D


Everybody cool off a bit. Let's call it a draw - OK? Problem fixed. I know it's about a 100˚. But, we need to stick together, ............

I agree, let's cool off on the criticism of the engineering folks at KCNC, especially now that the problem is fixed. For those of you who have forgotten they not only worked with us many times to solve problems, but also, remember it was KCNC who worked with KRMA about 4 years (?) ago to televise the Super Bowl in HD using the KRMA transmitters. The engineers at KCNC have done their fair share in the past.

roller11, you're kiddin' right? (I didn't see a smirky smilie)

If not...
http://www.lakecedarproject.com/
http://www.colorado-citymtnviews.com/AT-Update120504.php4

Without exception, the engineers at the local stations (David and Pat at KCNC, Bob at KUSA, Dave M at KWGN, Jim at KRMA, whats-his-name at KDVR and even Rick at KMGH) have been responsive to us. From what I've seen, they all like what they do and care deeply about the quality of the signal they provide us for - how much again? - oh right, free.

David and Pat set up grey sidebars at my (and others') request to help prevent burn-in issues on 4:3 content. They used our experience to diagnose and fix the tinny sound issue.

Bob killed the HUGE KUSA bug that was on their digital channel. He hosted our group right after they launched the local news in HD and let us sit in on the 6pm broadcast.

Dave M and his team were practicing switching the HD feed even before they were allowed to broadcast it. That's dedication. He also keeps us updated here when they have issues.

Jim joined KRMA after they'd made the HD switch, but has always been available for questions. I believe his station was the first to broadcast HD test patterns for us to calibrate our sets.

Sorry I can't remember the KDVR contact, but they got rid of the corny 14:9 aspect ratio they were using and kept us up to speed when Fox was converting all their stations to HD last year.

I haven't dealt with Rick at KMGH since I can't get his channel, but I know he's been made aware of their issues with 5.1 audio through members of this community and AFAIK has disabled that track until they can get their issues sorted out so that people don't get intermittent audio in the meantime.

It must have been frustrating for you, roller11, to see that problem on your KCNC feed. But when only one person is seeing symptoms, it's hard to chase down issues. The typical response on this forum in the past when station engineers fix something, though, has been to thank them. As a result, they tend to be pretty open to us and accessible if and when future issues come up. Don't be the one that makes them stop listening to us.

A lot of mfgr reps and industry folks have stopped posting on AVS over the years because some folks feel like they have free reign to blast away with their perceived injustice. I've read many posts where I seriously doubt the posted words would have been said aloud if the person they were directed towards were standing right in front of the person blasting away. I think it's safe to say if you wouldn't say it face to face then you shouldn't say it in a post.......

Roller I can sympathize with your position but in the end you got the desired results. You may have been just one viewer out of many that saw the problem (I know I didn't see it). Be thankful it's fixed and consider this.....if your rolls were reversed and you had someone email you with a problem no one (or very few) are complaining about does that problem get elevated to the top of the "must fix" list? Do you drop everything to fix a problem that isn't being noticed by the masses? How then would you appreciate it if you then fix the problem and instead of getting thanked get yelled at for taking so long? Do you even know what the stations engineers were doing during that time.....maybe they had a priority project, or maybe they need time to troubleshoot, or maybe they needed time to buy a replacement or maybe the vendor needed time to diagnose the problem and come up with a solution. The fact is you really don't even know how much time or effort KCNC Engineering put into fixing this issue yet you feel like blasting them for taking so long. Like I said earlier I sympathize with your frustration but pissing off the folks that were ultimately responsible for fixing the issue isn't going to accomplish anything except perhaps having them stop listening to us altogether. Is that the message you're trying to get across???

Well said Geof.

Roller, please heed the advice offered here, for I too have seen reps vanish after being flamed unjustifiably. It's really beneficial to everyone when they stick around.

Keep in mind that the folks offereing this advice have thousands upon thousands of posts to their credit, and have been members of the Denver thread since it's inception (back during the stone ages of HDTV). Now that Denver has moved well into the Paleocene era of HDTV, it's time to start acting with more human restraint.

So it's perfectly alright for KCNC to deliberately ignore a severe problem that apparantly only you saw the whole time, until someone corroborated a few days ago.... not to mention the hours I spent
doing KCNC's job for them.which I'm sure they never asked you to do.

Ernie's right .. it must be the heat.
Try focusing your anger on the real lamos in this situation -- sCARE, JeffCo, the FCC -- anyone of them would be deserving.

For alternatives to KDVR, their translator in Ft. Collins, KFCT, is currently operating on a meager 0.88 kW on DT21.... They are due to go to 1000 kW at full power, whenever that may be, although it could be well before KDVR does...

To the good folks living in and around Fort Collins:

Has anyone up that way happened check their signal strength for KFCT-DT21? I was informed today that KDVR/KFCT was on track to throttle the Fort Collins DT transmitter/translator up to full 1000kW power sometime late this afternoon or early evening.

Just wondering if it actually came to pass.
Thanks.

Just checked. I'm still receiving KFCT at the same strength I usually get (without tropo) on my Dish 811 - 49 to 56 and no lock. I would think that I would receive a stronger signal if they boosted power, especially to 1 mW.

Just checked. I'm still receiving KFCT at the same strength I usually get (without tropo) on my Dish 811 - 49 to 56 and no lock. I would think that I would receive a stronger signal if they boosted power, especially to 1 mW.

Definitely agree. Thanks for checking, Mike.

Just checked KFCT again for the hell of it. They must have boosted their power. I'm getting a solid 75 reading - SD signal.

As I was watching DT21, it disappeared. When I checked for a signal on 21, it was still coming in at 75 but was remapping to 31.1. DT 21 also disappeared from my channel lineup and I cannot manually tune DT21. Then I checked 32 for KDVR. It's signal strength was at 72 and it was also remapping to 31.1 Must be testing and it's certainly understandable if all the ducks aren't in order yet.

Update, "stripes" problem *not* fixed.

Contrary to todays earlier post, I'm sorry to say the problem is
not fixed. I have no explanation. I know what I saw when I observed
"Young and the Restless" at 11:30 today, on the other hand, this problem
has been 100% consistent so far, not intermitent.

As to my critics, you are right, I was out of line with comments regarding KCNC and
I regret what I said.

Despite this set back, I'm encouraged. Dave Layne called me today and asked
if he could come to my house with a couple of his engineers to see the problem first
hand. We will meet here between 11:00 Am and noon when "Young and the Restless"
airs, in "about a week". Of course this does not necessarily mean the problem
will be fixed, for example, it may be a network problem, beyond the control of
KCNC. It occurs to me that this may not be a simple failure of a piece of
equipment. Perhaps some 'upgrade' or modification was made to the hardware,
and this is an unfortunate side effect that those affected will have to live with.
One thing is for sure...Dave wants to resolve this, or at least understand it
and is willing to assign resources to that end.

That sounds like the David Layne we all know and love. :)

Wow -- it was good to see all the old-timers come out of lurk mode today. :)

DT 21 (KDVR repeater) just NE of Fort Collins is indeed sending out a MUCH bigger signal tonight from its 700' plus tower. Those of you close to the foothills in the shadow for 31 should try it out.

Bill

IMHO a much bigger issue with KCNC has been their HD switching.

It's been at least three or four weeks since I've seen a full broadcast of CBS' signature show, CSI in HD without some stupid error like SD 4:3 after a commercial or worse yet, after the news tease we miss about 10 seconds of the HD program.

I can't say whether those errors originate at KCNC or CBS, but they're very very annoying...

kucharsk - those errors have historically been at the KCNC level. When they first starting broadcasting their HD channel, each transition from network HD to local commercial and back to network HD again was manual. If the guy in the control room missed a switch, we'd get a full segment of the show in SD. I enjoyed the couple of times they forgot to switch to commercial and we got the national CBS "It's All Here" HD teaser.

Anyway, it's my understanding that that's all computer controlled and tied into the same switcher that switches their SD feed to local commercials and back, so there haven't been as many problems lately (in fact, for most of the 2004-05 season, I don't recall any instances of them NOT cutting back to the HD properly).

When you see a switch not happen properly, take note of the date/time/program and fire off an e-mail to David Layne so he can investigate. Sometimes things just break and if we don't tell them (politely and respectfully), they'll never know something went wrong.

Update, "stripes" problem *not* fixed.

Contrary to todays earlier post, I'm sorry to say the problem is
not fixed. I have no explanation. I know what I saw when I observed
"Young and the Restless" at 11:30 today, on the other hand, this problem
has been 100% consistent so far, not intermitent.

As to my critics, you are right, I was out of line with comments regarding KCNC and
I regret what I said.

Despite this set back, I'm encouraged. Dave Layne called me today and asked
if he could come to my house with a couple of his engineers to see the problem first
hand. We will meet here between 11:00 Am and noon when "Young and the Restless"
airs, in "about a week". Of course this does not necessarily mean the problem
will be fixed, for example, it may be a network problem, beyond the control of
KCNC. It occurs to me that this may not be a simple failure of a piece of
equipment. Perhaps some 'upgrade' or modification was made to the hardware,
and this is an unfortunate side effect that those affected will have to live with.
One thing is for sure...Dave wants to resolve this, or at least understand it
and is willing to assign resources to that end.

roller11
Thanks for sharing a little 'humble pie' with us. I am quite sure you will find that when dealing with the station engineers here in town (as distinguished from the station managers), they are more than willing to work with us and have been for many years. Keep us posted on your work to solve the problem. Like some others, I haven't seen it here, but I don't watch a lot of network, especially in the summer. This weekend, for example, I am busy acting on my inner child and am buried in the new "Harry Potter" book. I am not sure the TV will even be on until it is done (great book so far), I just came up for some air and thought I would check on the forum to see what's up. Hang in there, I am sure Dave et. al. will work with you to fix the problem. Trust me on this comment, you are not the only one here who has spent hours and hours of time and a ton of money trying to get decent HD in a town where it seems like the few of us in this thread are the only ones that even care (pardon the pun).

Oh, so its you that is to blame for the grey sidebars on KCNC? I don't like them. I wish they were black like just about every other channel. ;)
You're welcome :p

Oh, so its you that is to blame for the grey sidebars on KCNC? No sidebars for me. In fact, no KCNC at all for me this afternoon. Anyone else lose their signal?

Zero reading for me on KCNC. I noticed last night that they were not remapping correctly also.

No sidebars for me. In fact, no KCNC at all for me this afternoon. Anyone else lose their signal?
Affirmative. Nada, it's dead.

Had to check as I was 'playing' with a new antenna today. W/o amplification, and just above ground level(ladder and a chair), hard to tell if it'll help with Fox. However, it did program CBS(5) in Cheyenne, and PBS(12). And, on the main antenna, not a peep from KFCT, but even in the best of circumstances, that would be a long shot.
....jc
ps. Sorry, I don't have any milk crates, I'm sure that they would've helped :p

Great roller11, now you've done it. David Layne's taken his HD signal and left the playground :)

Hopefully it's nothing serious and gets resolved soon. Looks like the only thing on tonight is that INXS: Rock Star nonsense. Not even HD. Pfft.

KCNC-DT back on the air this morning.

Well gang, inspired by CEB's relentless pursuit of 17 (aka "the holy grail") I figure I need to give it a go as well. 1.5 years ago I started picking up HD simply by plugging the HD receiver into the wall -- one of the previous owners had put an antenna in the roof that I hadn't ever used before and I was able to get all but 17 just by turning it. Upon further review, I believe this antenna is ancient junk and I'm thinking about bringing some modern technology to the party. First, can anyone confirm my suspicion, that this current antenna is garbage? It has no model numbers on it that I can find. It appears to be a simple dipole(?) with a 30" boom (provided I understand "boom" -- the long piece the elements attach to). The rear elements are 40"+ each (wider than it is long). There aren't many elements on each side -- less than 12.

So, hunk of junk or surpassed by modern technology?

Thanks in advance.

Upon further review, I believe this antenna is ancient junk and I'm thinking about bringing some modern technology to the party. First, can anyone confirm my suspicion, that this current antenna is garbage? It has no model numbers on it that I can find. It appears to be a simple dipole(?) with a 30" boom (provided I understand "boom" -- the long piece the elements attach to). The rear elements are 40"+ each (wider than it is long). There aren't many elements on each side -- less than 12.
I inherited a very similar antenna to yours in my garage, and it does just fine with all of the stations on Lookout. It even did pretty well before I turned it around (the previous owner had it "pointing" toward Lookout like an arrow.

I don't think antenna technology has really changed all that much in the last few decades. DTV is broadcast on the same frequencies as regular TV, except that UHF is more common. That means you needn't concern yourself too much with the long rear elements, which are used for the low VHF channels. These antennas often come with a 'corner reflector' at the back which pulls in UHF.

If you want to go all out for KMGH, I would try a high-gain UHF antenna like the CM 4228. But you may well find that you have to give up other channels in order to pull in 17. I still have my old garage antenna in service, as it is more reliable for KDVR and KWGN than is my CM4228 pointed at Republic Plaza.

... -- one of the previous owners had put an antenna in the roof that I hadn't ever used before and I was able to get all but 17 just by turning it.
Define 'in the roof'. Is the antenna, on the roof, or in the attic?

...First, can anyone confirm my suspicion, that this current antenna is garbage?
It really doesn't matter how modern or how old the antenna is, the question is does it do the job for your situation?

... It appears to be a simple dipole(?) with a 30" boom (provided I understand "boom" -- the long piece the elements attach to). The rear elements are 40"+ each (wider than it is long). There aren't many elements on each side -- less than 12.
Without a picture, it sounds like your basic VHF antenna. Currently, all of the Denver HD broadcasts are in the UHF band, so, yes, a different antenna would be desireable.

And also remember, that somewhere in the now distant future, some of the HD broadcasts will be in the VHF frequencies, so a decent VHF/UHF antenna should be a consideration.
....jc

Floyd,

I agree with TPW, sounds like you have an old VHF only antenna. The longest element at the back of the antenna is intended to reject signals from the rear, not pick up UHF signals. I am a little confused about your reference to "plugging it in". I'm presuming you are referring to an antenna jack on your wall. You could combine this antenna with a UHF only antenna, such as the suggested CM4228, and you'll be all set for analog shutoff when KRMA, KMGH, and KUSA return to channels 6, 7, and 9.

DT 21 (KDVR repeater) just NE of Fort Collins is indeed sending out a MUCH bigger signal tonight from its 700' plus tower. Those of you close to the foothills in the shadow for 31 should try it out.
Bill

Just checked KFCT again for the hell of it. They must have boosted their power. I'm getting a solid 75 reading - SD signal. As I was watching DT21, it disappeared. When I checked for a signal on 21, it was still coming in at 75 but was remapping to 31.1. DT 21 also disappeared from my channel lineup and I cannot manually tune DT21. Then I checked 32 for KDVR. It's signal strength was at 72 and it was also remapping to 31.1 Must be testing and it's certainly understandable if all the ducks aren't in order yet.

Thanks, Mike & Bill. Anyone else notice a DT21 boost?

Tommy,

I flipped over to 21 last night just to check it out and I have a solid signal and it locks for me. Even though I'm in Greeley, it's always been very flaky and hard to keep locked in.

I've checked a couple of times today and DT21 is apparently back to its STA power. I'm back to getting a steady 49 reading on my Dish 811 and no lock. Maybe they were playing with it Friday night and will resume testing after the weekend.

OK, so it's looking more and more like "cutover" date is 12/31/2008. Less than 3 1/2 years from now.

Can someone help me out here. Why are the stations still willing to go forward with LCG II? From their perspective, if things went well, the best they would do is go-live with LCG in summer of 2007. 1.5 years from cutover. Why go to the expense of building the facility AND the future liability like independent testing and fines for exceeding levels (I believe that is in the LCG submission, is it not)? And if construction moves at a rate similar to the KRMA deal, in 3 years there will be nothing but a wider road :)

I know there is the worry about "same service". Is that enough to make fighting for and building the new facility worth it from a cost-benefit ratio?

I ask because I'm trying to convince myself that they will go forward and we'll have some chance to see high power before 2009. But if I were a GM, I'm not sure I could justify keeping up the fight.

...Less than 3 1/2 years from now.
You're killing me here!

I think almost everyone here has already punted.

I'm willing to bet, that even if LGC II could go live tomorrow, that the stations using it would be broadcasting at low power. Like, can't remember his name, from KDVR told me: 'We can only broadcast at low power so that we don't exceed our radiation limits(NTSC & ATSC combined).

So, put up a tower, and/or, put up a monster antenna, and 'deal with it'.
....jc

So, put up a tower, and/or, put up a monster antenna, and 'deal with it'.
....jc

Actually, I get everything there is to get here (except some mythical ABC affiliate) :) with my modded RS Double Bow Tie. So I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't need a monster antenna.

But your post is exactly my point. We all know that there won't be any high-power digital until analog is shut down in the Denver area, so why are they still at least appearing to push the expensive tower option.

Actually, the vindictive side of me kind of wants LCG II to go down in flames. Just so our friend at sCARE can forever keep those existing towers instead of having some consolidation. But that's a whole different story.

Can someone help me out here. Why are the stations still willing to go forward with LCG II? I don't believe they are.

The legal suits against LCGII have been dragging on far too long and they continue to drag on. I don't believe the LCG stations have tried their level best to get their end of the case together at warp speed. In fact one might conclude that they have moved at snail pace speed. After all, why hurry thru all this? They have the FCC in their hip pockets -- it's clear that the FCC is watching out for the stations, not the citizens. So its behooved the LCG stations to allow the legal suit to move along slowly, and in the interim have all 3 JeffCo Commissioners replaced with a new set wherein each has vowed to reject any new tower. Examine the possibilities:

1) Letting the legal battles drag out means delaying significant expenditures both for construction and steep monthly electrical power bills. As mentioned, the FCC has bought into this so why hurry?

2) Now that the new commissioners are in place the chances of getting LCGII overturned have improved....this is music to "bean counting" ears. With "luck" the stations will have saved a small fortune and be able to claim that SCARE made them do it (only the ill informed or gullible few or the morons at the FCC will believe this though).

I have the utmost respect for (most) station Engineering staffs. For the most part they've done their best to solve problems and be attentive to our observations. Several stations have even shown great ingenuity (ie, KCNC & KRMA corroborating to have KRMA broadcast the Super Bowl a few years back to name but one example).

That said, I also have the utmost contempt for station management (particularly with the A-HOLES at KMGH). Their plan all along has been to delay, delay, delay (while not making it appear as though they were behind the delay....after all they need to keep up the deception to keep the fools at the FCC fooled). It may be fiscally responsible for them to avoid spending large sums of money but they have not been granted broadcasting licenses to be fiscally responsible: They have been granted broadcasting rights to serve the public, not themselves.

SCARE may think they have the stations by the shorthairs with the "Same Service" clause but in the end when it comes down to shutting down all high power the stations will finally start informing the public about their problems on Lookout. Imagine the furor if the whole Front Range would be devoid of high power TV....that will never happen.

Can someone help me out here. Why are the stations still willing to go forward with LCG II?There is also the tower antenna issue. I don't think it's been cleared up that the stations can to 'change out' transmitters that easily.

Remember, most current stations are using antennas on their towers on Lookout that are tuned for VHF. Their new frequencies are now UHF. And changing the antennas would require new sCAREY hearings in front of Commissioners. I'm not that technically knowlegeable in that area to know if this is do-able. (KWGN did change their antenna on the short tower for the change from 2 to 34)So, put up a tower, and/or, put up a monster antenna, and 'deal with it'.
Sure, maybe we can do that here, but that doesn't help the guys in Ft Collins or Greeley.

KMGH began broadcasting their 24/7 newscast on 7.2, then it disappeared. I emailed the station to ask why. (I'm not a fan of sub-channels but I had a suspicion about Comcast's role.) Here's the reply

The service is exclusive to Comcast. We received a temporary permission to air the 247 Neschannel content on the subchannel during the Cherry Creek Arts Festival. That's why the service was on and then taken off. We are in negotiations with ABC to launch a different service on our digital subchannel. It will take some time to build the service but will be valuable in the end.
Darrell Brown
General Manager

KMGH apparently is willing to develop a new service, a 24/7 newscast, that is a direct result of the digital transition, in order to make some more money. That's OK from a corporate perspective but I thought KMGH had a license to broadcast in the public interest.

KMGH won't provide a service to the public because Comcast is footing some/all of the bill. Their attitude with their 1.91 kW digital transmitter is right along the same lines of thinking. Why would KMGH push for resolution of the LCGII situation with a fiscal outlook on life such as this?

The full power requirement for the Big 4 was blown off not only in Denver but all over the country. What has the FCC done about it? For those stations that even bothered to file for an STA extension, it looks like the FCC routinely granted 6 months. Many didn't even bother such as KMGH, KCNC. Why should they? What's the penalty? Is the FCC going to shut them down? I certainly haven't seen any FCC notices to these stations regarding loss of guarantee of interference. How could there be? There isn't any competition to worry about interference. And we already know, as must the FCC, that the other local stations under the 7-1-06 deadline won't make it either.

Geof, I don't think the front range will be in any kind of furor. In the next 3 1/2 years, Comcast, D*, and E* will have all the locals on their systems. Satellite already converts their digital signals to analog via set top box, so why wouldn't they continue that practice? They'll lose a lot of $4.95 per month additional receiver fees if they don't. And as a result, most folks won't care. Some will probably even take down their OTA antennas. Cynical - maybe. Sure, the TV's in the kitchen may be affected, but I'm not sure I'd call any reaction at this time a possible furor.

And lets not forget the deadlines have already been extended and the possibility that analog shutdown will be extended again is something not out of the realm of possibilities. I know I'm not going to Vegas with any bets on a firm 12-31-08 date.

Geof, I don't think the front range will be in any kind of furor. In the next 3 1/2 years, Comcast, D*, and E* will have all the locals on their systems. Satellite already converts their digital signals to analog via set top box, so why wouldn't they continue that practice? They'll lose a lot of $4.95 per month additional receiver fees if they don't. And as a result, most folks won't care. Some will probably even take down their OTA antennas. Cynical - maybe. Sure, the TV's in the kitchen may be affected, but I'm not sure I'd call any reaction at this time a possible furor. You may be right. I would be furious is SCARE were able to stop the Denver stations from broadcasting high power but at that point in time I won't be here so it really won't bother me one way or the other. That said, I don't think there's much chance that Lookout will be shutdown anytime soon.

Geof, I believe I agree with nearly all of your comments. The station managers here are not only not trying, they are enjoying the money saved by 'not trying' as well, knowing full well the FCC won't step in.

Personally I have found a great way not to be disappointed by anything that happens here in Denver anymore. I simply think of the worst possible scenario, and then double it. I am rarely if ever upset or for that matter disappointed by what happens. :mad:

I am still not able to receive KCNC-DT in the highlands Ranch area. Is anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,
Mike

I am located south of HR and have 2 antennas in my system. One is an amplified rooftop antenna that cannot receive KCNC. The second is in my garage attic, has no amplifier, and is probably older than I am. Guess which one receives KCNC and nothing else.

I am located south of HR and have 2 antennas in my system. One is an amplified rooftop antenna that cannot receive KCNC. The second is in my garage attic, has no amplifier, and is probably older than I am. Guess which one receives KCNC and nothing else.I wonder if the amplification might actually be the problem with your rooftop antenna? There are two strong stations (KDVR and KWGN) broadcasting on frequencies fairly close to the weak one you are trying to pick up (KCNC).

The antenna was only recently amplified. It has been up for 2 years with no luck on KCNC. Happily, after I installed the amplifier I now receive the mythical KMGH 7-1!

Mike,

I live about 2 blocks north of Summit View Elementary School, or about the equivalent of 8 blocks north of Mountain Vista High School, south of HR Pkwy. I receive KCNC OK, although it is typically my weakest channel - usually about 72 on my Dish 811 receiver. At night, I receive a stronger signal from KGWN from Cheyenne - channel 5.1, digital 30. Both are CBS. You didn't mention what type of antenna you have. Mine is outdoors.

MileHighMike,

I live near the Highlands Ranch high school, which is near University and Cresthill. I never had a problem with 4-1 before until a few days ago. I am not sure the model number on my antenna but it was the biggest one you could by at radio shack. I don't think the antenna is bad because all the other channels 2-1, 2-2, 6-1, 9-1, 9-2, 31-1 come in. I have never been able to get 7-1. I have the Direct TV HD10-250 and my signals for the channels that do come in are anywhere from 68 to 80. I tried going on the roof and moving the antenna in just about every direction but I never get a signal strength higher than 15-30. I have my antenna connected to a pre amp, so I am at a loss on what the problem is.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

I haven't noticed a change in signal strength on KCNC lately. In fact, watched CSI last night and do remember a 72 reading. I do receive 7.1 and usually it's my strongest signal in the mid-80's. I do not have a pre-amp. I have a Terk 32, which everyone seems to disdain, but it works for me although I know it only averages 8-9 dB gain at most over the UHF spectrum.

I also receive, besides Cheyenne from my previous post, KBDI 38.1 thru 38.3 and a shopping channel on DT29.1. I do not receive DT15.1 (Spanish) or DT46.1 (religious) but I don't care as I'd never watch them anyway. I believe I am a little higher than you but I don't know if that's a valid variable in your situation.

Since you used to receive KCNC, I'm at a loss as to why it disappeared. Perhaps you were receiving the lowest acceptable signal and some trees grew just enough to take you below the threshhold. You are still getting some signal, it's not zero, so perhaps a stronger amp might help. Also, did you try raising the antenna when you tried it on the roof? Other than those thoughts, I'm out of ideas.

I to have noticed a drop in KCNC signal strength. For the first time ever I had dropouts on CSI Miami last night. Since I've messed with my configuration the weekend before last and the lower signal seemed to start around mid-week last week, I assumed it was me. Maybe it still is, but I'm suspicious.

Guys,

Thanks for all the replies re: my antenna situation. Weekend after next I'm going to try a new antenna (using antennaweb's guidelines) and see what happens.

Anyone (besides me) having a problem with KDVR (Fox UHF 32)?
Can't get a lock on it.... (Dish Network 921)

Thanks

David,

I can't get KDVR either. All the other stations are coming in per usual. This is with the D* HD tivo receiver.

Floyd,

Thanks for the quick confirmation (this is usually one of the strongest signals).
Perhaps the heat blew something out.

Hope it's back for "The Inside" tomorrow.

At least I know I can stop playing with it.

Oh, KDVR is out for everyone else too? I went up on my roof and started fiddling with my antenna. Guess I should have checked here first!

I'm getting a good signal strength on KDVR when I scan for the 32, but I am not getting a picture or sound. Testing after they went down?

KDVR was out for most of the evening. OTA & comcast. It's back now.

The Denver Post has a short article in the Regional Notes section today that mentions the "super tower" hearing on Aug. 30 before the Jeffco BCC. The article states that "the meeting will be limited to evidence and testimony on residents' safety in the event of tower collapse."

The article states that "the meeting will be limited to evidence and testimony on residents' safety in the event of tower collapse."But, what if the tower falls and destroys my talking toaster? Can I bring that up??????

But, what if the tower falls and destroys my talking toaster? Can I bring that up??????
Absolutely! The loss would be unimaginable. The loss of the only(one of the few, at least) Talking Toasters in the greater Denver area, would be a loss of historical proportions. A loss, that would deprive generations of Denverites of the correct way of preparing toast.

While, it's a known fact, that a new tower, would basically turn thousands of houses into living microwave ovens, and probably the fact that 50% of the Denver population would literally be 'cooked alive', the loss of only one Talking Toaster would be a loss for humanity.

I'm only 53 miles from most of those dangerous towers. And, can you imagine, the destruction that would be caused, if just one of those RF breathing monsters fell to the earth? I'm scared already. I'll need a bomb shelter now.

Please, save me and my children, No new towers!
...jc

The tower could fall and the vibration would cause Mt Evans to erupt and the lava could kill my dog.

Oh sorry! I am just getting ready or the new SCARE testimony. :D

Who's planning on being at the meeting?

I'll be on the road, so will have to miss the parade of crying brownies and various other whack-jobs. Is the guy who wrapped peoples houses in tinfoil still in business? I'm looking for a second job and may try to undercut him. Else, I could start making huge lead umbrellas....hmmm.......

Continued from the Denver Comcast thread, where this was not really on topic:

What, exactly, is your setup? Do you have an HDTV set w/integrated
ATSC tuner? STB? PC tuner card? What brand/model number is your display?
The problem is highly variable in it's intensity. For example,
I watched CSI:NY tonight, and it took me a good 10 seconds
to see the problem. Likewise Cold Case, Numbers, Raymond mute the problem.
Most HDTV show the problem clearly, Young and the Restless, CSI:Miami,
CSI, Joan of Arcadia, Still Standing, shows with more intense colors. As I've reported, look for still scenes, facial closeups.
Even a small amount of motion will obscure these lines.


My display device is a Sony KP51HW40 rear projection 1080i set. You have said repeatedly that this can only be seen on fixed pixel displays. I cannot see anything wrong with the KCNC HD picture watching at 1080i resolution from my Dish 6000, my Dish 921 or my Dish 942s. I can also not see anything wrong with the KCNC HD picture when watching at 1080i resoution from my MyHD 130 card output on either my sony television, or on my 19" computer monitor connected to my office computer.

Yes, I saw the picture that you first uploaded last month, and my reaction was "ewwww". But, you need to be very careful claiming that this is affecting everyone, because it isn't.

Edit: HA! Been awhile since I was first on page!

Hmm, huge lead umbrellas? I see nothing that could possibly go wrong with that. Nope, nothing at all.

I don’t plan on going, although I do enjoy watching crazy people, I thing my time would be better spent in my swimming pool.

Wrong. You're the only one. markdl and I both have 1920x1080 sets and cannot see anything wrong.

Check out "Young and the Restless".

I don't know why, but sure. I'll TiVo it tomorrow and report back.

What ever happened with the visit from David Layne?

[QUOTE=markdl]Continued from the Denver Comcast thread, where this was not really on topic:



>My display device is a Sony KP51HW40 rear projection 1080i set. You have said >repeatedly that this can only be seen on fixed pixel displays.

Correct, fixed pixel, as in NOT a CRT based display.
Any raster scan tech (i.e. CRT) is inherently analog, so you will not see
the problem. Fixed Pixel means a DLP, Plasma, LCD, LCOS...not a CRT.

> I cannot see anything wrong with the KCNC HD picture watching at 1080i >resolution from my Dish 6000, my Dish 921 or my Dish 942s.

As I've said time and again, this is an OTA problem, not a Satellite problem.

> I can also not see anything wrong with the KCNC HD picture when watching at >1080i resoution from my MyHD 130 card output on either my sony television, or >on my 19" computer monitor connected to my office computer.

Which is totally consistent with my findings. Your Sony TV is CRT based, so no lines.
Your monitor is only 1280x1024, again, no lines. You must output to any display
except a direct view or RP CRT, and, it must be at 1920x1080 or higher.


Yes, I saw the picture that you first uploaded last month, and my reaction was "ewwww". But, you need to be very careful claiming that this is affecting everyone, because it isn't.

Did you even bother to read my posts??? I made a special point of saying it DOES NOT affect everyone.

As I suspected, you will never see the problem with your paticular setup.

Continued from the Denver Comcast thread, where this was not really on topic:



>My display device is a Sony KP51HW40 rear projection 1080i set. You have said >repeatedly that this can only be seen on fixed pixel displays.

Correct, fixed pixel, as in NOT a CRT based display.
Any raster scan tech (i.e. CRT) is inherently analog, so you will not see
the problem. Fixed Pixel means a DLP, Plasma, LCD, LCOS...not a CRT.

In that case, I guess I won't bother TiVoing Y&R tomorrow. I also have a CRT. I wonder what kind of problem would only manifest itself on a fixed-pixel display?

You must output to any display
except a direct view or RP CRT, and, it must be at 1920x1080 or higher.
So Durvivor's 1366x768 display shouldn't show symptoms, correct?

>I don't know why, but sure. I'll TiVo it tomorrow and report back.

Don't bother if your display is CRT based.

>What ever happened with the visit from David Layne?.

I haven't heard back from him, he implied that it could be a "week or two".
I'll probably call him by,say, July 26 if I haven't heard anything.
Of course it may occur to him that there is no need drive all the way out
to Longmont since he can easily duplicate the problem without my help.

he can easily duplicate the problem without my help.
See, there you go again. None of the veterans on this board, with the myriad of equipment at our disposal, can duplicate it. Yet you assume it's something so pervasive that it can be easily duplicated. :rolleyes:

You might want to double check the [ quote ] [ / quote ] tags in your replies -- looks like you're getting your responses mixed up with the quotes you're replying to.

[QUOTE=dr_mal]

> I wonder what kind of problem would only manifest itself on a fixed-pixel display?

I'll let someone else explain to you the difference between a CRT and
a fixed pixel display.

>So Durvivor's 1366x768 display shouldn't show symptoms, correct?

No, Durvivor's 1366x768 will show it cause his is fixed pixel, an LCD display.

...can you imagine, the destruction that would be caused, if just one of those RF breathing monsters fell to the earth? I'm scared already. I'll need a bomb shelter now...jc

To paraphrase an old joke (which most readers of this forum are probably too young to understand):

"More people have been killed in Ted Kennedy's car than by falling TV towers."

You might want to double check the [ quote ] [ / quote ] tags in your replies -- looks like you're getting your responses mixed up with the quotes you're replying to.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I'll do that.

Jeff

Anyway, it's my understanding that that's all computer controlled and tied into the same switcher that switches their SD feed to local commercials and back, so there haven't been as many problems lately (in fact, for most of the 2004-05 season, I don't recall any instances of them NOT cutting back to the HD properly).Watch every week during CSI on Thursday night; you'll see at least one blown transition. Either they will shift back to HD late and we get a few minutes of 4:3, or their own 4:3 programming will overshoot the (re)start of the HD feed.

At the very least it appears their switchers are not programmed to handle the fact that the SD and HD feeds are not in complete sync.

Could be. It seems KUSA can't get through an episode of L&O: CI without blowing (at least) one transition every week. I did miss a few weeks of CSI this season - could be they were the weeks that were the most hosed. I just don't recall KCNC being that bad this year.

They (KCNC edited to KUSA) still screw up the SD/HD transitions on Leno at least 3 or 4 times a month, so the computer has at least a 'few' bugs.

Edit: 10:18 PM
Oops, my bad, Leno of course is on KUSA, Denver's self proclaimed leader in HD. They often get it wrong too!

Since I'm bored, I've got a question regarding the upcoming tower collapse testimony...

I know it's been discussed that the far, far-fetched possibility of the tower falling toward the west and then the minute possiblilty of pulling up one, full-length guy-wire instead of it snapping, which then whips from that, and amazingly zeros in and hits the only house in the area. OK, sure anything's possible, (And there's Martians living on Mars). But, now there's the issue of the tower falling and hitting other tower, then (again far-fetched) that tower falling onto a home. Whew! That's a lot of far-fetching to start.

But as I was driving on lookout today, the new tower will be shorter, and placed quite a bit down the hill from the old KCNC position. I'm not sure how, even if the new tower should hypothetically fall, that it could possibly hit any of the other towers? It's not tall enough and too far away. And what's the odds that possibility of one of its guy-wires were to strike another tower with enough force to even make a dent in it? All those other towers are not guy-wire supported, but are all super strong, free-standing, tripod types.

I can't wait to hear sCARE's rhetoric on that!

Just for grins, I created a poll to see when you think that Full Power HDTV will finally be available in Denver. Enjoy, it might be interesting. The Poll is here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561780)

Santellavision,

I think your explanation answered your own question. The only people who believe the domino effect is real are those that appear on Leno's Jaywalking and don't know what country Mexico City is in. I'm sure you agree that the issue isn't the dominoes, the issue is sCARE doesn't want the towers.

In my opinion, there is no guarantee that the August hearing will be limited to this issue. I believe, although I hope I'm wrong, that sCARE will employ every delay tactic known to man with the full cooperation of their friends at JeffCo until analog shutoff. Then, because, as I understand it, the existing analog towers are not suitable for digital transmissions, they will reach their goal and be rid of all towers. So in your poll, I'm voting 2009 or later.

To change gears, I noticed on the FCC site today that in actions dated June 23 the FCC denied both KMGH's and KUSA's election to return to their analog channels after analog shutoff. KCNC's and KRMA's were posted as approved. Since KDBI's negotiated channel agreement was previously denied, meaning they are going to stay on DT38, it appears at this point in time that only KRMA will be on VHF. It's too bad that may happen, but I'm sure it has to do with their electric bill and, as far as I know, the fact that at 45 kW ERP on low VHF has about the same coverage area as 1 mW on UHF. If all this comes to pass, we'll need a VHF antenna of some type in addition to UHF, which will probably be a pain - cost of another antenna, combiners, etc.

... Then, because, as I understand it, the existing analog towers are not suitable for digital transmissions, they will reach their goal and be rid of all towers.
Hmmm, a tower is a tower. Now, why wouldn't the existing towers be able to provide digital transmissions? Is it transmitter weight or wind capture? I'd like to know.

... If all this comes to pass, we'll need a VHF antenna of some type in addition to UHF, which will probably be a pain - cost of another antenna, combiners, etc.
This has been a known since day one. But so many people have been misinformed, not informed, or just plain ignoring the fact, that there will be a lot of retrofits going on. But, h*ll this is Denver, does it really matter?
....jc

jc,
It's not the tower, it's the antenna on top of the tower. The current antennas are 'tuned' to a certain channel (i.e. KCNC-4, KUSA-9 etc) There's an issue of whether they can actually use those antennas for digital broadcasting. Like trying to send out the frequency, UHF DTV35 out an antenna tuned for VHF NTSC 4.

I don't think we've ever 'offically' been told you can do that effectively. Sure, you may be able to try, but most likely, doing it would effect the final power output.

And to change the antennas is not allowed without more JeffCo public hearings.

[/QUOTE]Hmmm, a tower is a tower. Now, why wouldn't the existing towers be able to provide digital transmissions? Is it transmitter weight or wind capture? I'd like to know.[QUOTE]

We're on page 384 of this thread, so I didn't even attempt to go back to find it, but I recollect, probably 6 months ago, a post that referenced the unsuitablilty of the existing towers. That seems to make sense since LCGII was formed to build new structures and why do that if the current one's would work? It could be that the existing towers cannot support both analog and digital transmitters at the same time. Or it could be a true radiation issue along the lines of what KDVR is claiming right now for not being at 1 mW. Let's face it, most of time, when the towers are discussed on this thread, it's pure conjecture anyway.

jc,
It's not the tower, it's the antenna on top of the tower.
Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, a tower is just a hunk of metal(which according to sCare is going to cause mass destruction). My point was that antennas(not towers) can be swapped out, unless there are weight or wind load issues(ie. the new antennas would induce greater wind or weight loads on the tower).

Please reread milehighmike's post.
....jc

jc -- antennas cannot be swapped out without rezoning of the land the tower's on. This whole LCG2 business is just to have the land they want to put the new tower on rezoned. So we know how likely a rezoning for the handful of existing towers would be.

jc,

The stations cannot touch, change, modify or alter their towers or antennas atop the towers in anyway without getting approval from the JeffCo commissioners.

jc & dr - I think you're both right.

TPW - I just checked KFCT's signal in Ft. Collins. Getting a very solid 80 on Dish 811. It remaps to 31.1. You might want to try for it since I recollect you can't receive KDVR on DT32.

Santellavision,

To change gears, I noticed on the FCC site today that in actions dated June 23 the FCC denied both KMGH's and KUSA's election to return to their analog channels after analog shutoff. KCNC's and KRMA's were posted as approved. Since KDBI's negotiated channel agreement was previously denied, meaning they are going to stay on DT38, it appears at this point in time that only KRMA will be on VHF. Thanks for that info. I hadn't bothered to look but I guess this comes as no real surprise to me. This may be good news (to us, not the stations) since that would mean their existing antennas and other gear (such as filters, etc) will not be suitable for DTV so maybe they'll try a little harder to get LCG approved (KCNC was always going to stay on 35 so they'll new gear too).

... Then, because, as I understand it, the existing analog towers are not suitable for digital transmissions, they will reach their goal and be rid of all towers. So in your poll, I'm voting 2009 or later.
This statement is what I was talking about. Note the keyword 'Tower'. Let me put this another way: I have a lamp, and it's got a plain old light bulb in it, you mean I can't replace the bulb with a green light bulb? Never mind, this is getting deeper than I wanted to take it.

TPW - I just checked KFCT's signal in Ft. Collins. Getting a very solid 80 on Dish 811. It remaps to 31.1. You might want to try for it since I recollect you can't receive KDVR on DT32.
Thanks, Mike. However, I tried, and it's not showing up down here. However, I'm actively plotting against sCARE, and I hope to have a solution before football season starts. ;)
....jc

TPW,

You're right, this is getting a little too deep. I refer to my conjecture thought. RE: KFCT, I've noticed they're "playing" with it as we speak. My signal strength has varied over the past 1/2 hour or so from about 74 to 82 and the remapping to 31 comes and goes. So perhaps you might have better luck later after the fine tuning is completed. I certainly hope you find a solution to your Fox woes as I don't think I want to watch another football game in analog unless I have to.

Just for grins, I created a poll to see when you think that Full Power HDTV will finally be available in Denver. Enjoy, it might be interesting. The Poll is here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561780)Been there -- done that. We had a pool years ago. Everyone lost.

jc -- antennas cannot be swapped out without rezoning of the land the tower's on. This whole LCG2 business is just to have the land they want to put the new tower on rezoned. So we know how likely a rezoning for the handful of existing towers would be.

Faced with a loss of television service, I believe the rezoning would be very likely. And that is exactly what will happen the summer of 2008.

Don

As I posted previously in my "crystal ball" scenario, the buck will stop in Federal court around the time the rest of the nation turns off analog broadcasts. At that point, the Feds will rule that under the Telecommunications Act, the FCC has the authority to tell JeffCo and sCare to pound sand. Because the new tower will have been stalled long enough to kill it as a viable DTV implementation option, the FCC will have ordered the broadcasters and JeffCo to convert the existing towers ASAP and get DTV to metro-Denver post-haste. JeffCo and sCare will take it to Federal court where they will lose, big time.

I sure hope JeffCo and sCare like those existing towers because they are going to be there a long, long time.

...I sure hope JeffCo and sCare like those existing towers because they are going to be there a long, long time.
Agree.

At this point in time, I don't really see any benefit to the new tower at all. If they do get the damn thing built, the stations using it probably will be broadcasting at low power until the analog shutoff. So, who wins? sCare. One smaller tower goes up, and a few bigger ones are removed. Again, sCare wins.

So, faced with the probablity of nothing but low power broadcasts until the shutoff, and sCare causing us misery, and still getting what they want(towers removed), I think that the best result, is that the new tower is never built.

When your current position/opinion will result in no gain for you, and instead result in gains for others, a change in position/opinion may be the best course of action....jc
....jc

Dish had a software update on 7/20 for the 921. It has left me with almost no local digital reception here in Dallas. They said they're working on a fix...

wow too much to read lol:)

If they do get the damn thing built, the stations using it probably will be broadcasting at low power until the analog shutoff. So, who wins? sCare.
I win, and you lose. Low power from Lookout would let me start getting KMGH but would make you lose it (or so I assume, since you can't even get KDVR).

I win, and you lose. Low power from Lookout would let me start getting KMGH but would make you lose it (or so I assume, since you can't even get KDVR).
Nice attitude. But, that doesn't bother me. I'm actively working to gain the 3 stations that I can't currently receive. And, if KMGH moves to lookout, before the shutoff date, I'll deal with that issue also. I still have a few cards to play before the game is over. :p
....jc

Nice attitude. But, that doesn't bother me. I'm not wishing you poor reception to solve my problems, just pointing out that "it's an ill wind which blows no good".

Nonetheless, my prediction is still that we'll have an antenna switchout on the existing towers in 2009 (which sCARE won't be able to stop) and no other change in the status quo until then. With KRMA going back to their channel 6 frequency after transition, I also wonder if they'll ever move to Mt. Morrison; hardly seems worth the bother setting up a new UHF transmitter for a couple years at most.

...Nonetheless, my prediction is still that we'll have an antenna switchout on the existing towers in 2009 (which sCARE won't be able to stop) and no other change in the status quo until then.
I agree. Why spend the $$$ for a new tower, if you don't have to?

With KRMA going back to their channel 6 frequency after transition, I also wonder if they'll ever move to Mt. Morrison; hardly seems worth the bother setting up a new UHF transmitter for a couple years at most.
Again, given the current situation, unless their facility needs upgrading anyway, I agree. However, they do get some federal funding, don't they? So, maybe it's a 'Use it or Lose it' situation.

You thought sCare was bad? Today, some clown from NC starts sending me PM's, bitching about some of the font colors that I've been using. #1, why is he even reading this thread?, and #2, does he really think that I care?
....jc

With KRMA going back to their channel 6 frequency after transition, I also wonder if they'll ever move to Mt. Morrison; hardly seems worth the bother setting up a new UHF transmitter for a couple years at most.

I believe that KRMA indicated that the current tower was reaching the end of its useful life, and it really needed to be replaced, digital or not.

Similarly, I think the new tower will ultimately save the stations money, so while there might have been some appeal to them in delaying expenditures for a while, in the long run they want to get a new tower built.

Mark

You thought sCare was bad? Today, some clown from NC starts sending me PM's, bitching about some of the font colors that I've been using. #1, why is he even reading this thread?, and #2, does he really think that I care?
....jc
Well, I was going to ask you about that myself - wondering why you were using "invisible ink" here. It's easy enough to highlight what you wrote to read it. Just odd that you'd go to the trouble to make your posts hard to read. :confused:

OK, before this turns into a contest, everybody just chill. I think the 100 degree heat this week is getting to everybody as folks seem more confrontational than normal, here and in real-world metro-Denver.

...It's easy enough to highlight what you wrote to read it. Just odd that you'd go to the trouble to make your posts hard to read. :confused:
As I tried to explain to the person from NC, I'm using the forum default skin, which has a dark background. So, light font colors show up better. I'm not trying to make my posts hard to read. The real problem is the administrators' for this site who created 'skins' that have such a vast difference in background colors. If they were going to go this route, maybe they should've either disabled the ability to use font colors, or picked background colors that were all light or all dark.

sCare would be proud of me, for making people go to the lengths that they do, just to read my posts. After all, look at the lengths that we have to go through just to get a digital signal in Denver! :(

Now that we're all chilled out (back down into high 90's), how many of you saw the fire coverage this afternoon on KUSA? Nice to see them putting Sky9 to good use.

I saw it. It was in glorious-- …fuzzy analog.

I saw it too. Sky9 is really impressive. However, after 2 1/2 hours of watching smoke, it got very repetitive and I went outside to watch the grass grow.

Sheesh...there's just no pleasing you people... :D

Great fire coverage by 4, 9 and 31, but the that Sky9 HD really stands out on a WS HD TV. I actually felt previliged to live in this age of hi-tech video communications.

As I tried to explain to the person from NC, I'm using the forum default skin, which has a dark background. So, light font colors show up better. I'm not trying to make my posts hard to read.
Oh, that makes sense. I switched away from the defaults so long ago, I'd forgotten about it.

We’ll probably be in Pt. 4 by then. I think 1000 pages is the limit.

You know, we could turn these threads into one hell of a book. It’s got all of the elements, love, horror, suspense... incredible, incredible, suspense. Maybe Ernie could even help us turn it into a cheesy made-for-TV movie.

Hey, it’s better than Jetlag’s giant lead umbrella idea!

OK gang... It looks as though my Sammy TS160 went T---up. The audio is really whacked out. I guess I'll be shopping for a new DTV HD receiver.

Hoping to squeak enough dough for an HD Tivo, but it just might not be in the cards right now.

Can you guys give me an idea of which receivers are worth looking at - both Tivo and non?

Thanks a ton

Mike

I've searched this thread but cannot find what I know I have seen here. I have decided to buy a "Canadian Vacation Home". I now need to find a place to order programming from. I believe that some of you previously had recommended some sites. I would appreciate it if you would post the links again.

Thanks
George M

George,

Here's some links for your quest...

http://www.global-cm.net/CAN/canadiansolution.html
http://www.freewaysupport.com/

Thanks

It looks like global is only for SC. Is freeway the only source for BEV?

George,
I would call Global. They used to have HD receivers for BEV.

Thanks, that's right where I'm currently leaning. Just trying to get my hands on one of those magic (?) coupons.

I can't believe the HD withdrawals.

I have gotten D* to authorize about $275 in credits upon purchase of a new HD Tivo box. At least she said she wrote it in the file on my account. I did hear her whacking keys, so I think it's probably there.

Might make that box a pretty good deal.

Here's hoping...

I managed to find an agreeable checker at the Best Buy at I-25/Colorado about 10 days ago who manally entered the 50% reduction on the HR10-250. Gotta have that coupon though! Total was $379 including sales tax.

With the $200 credit from Direct, this unit cost me $179.00

BTW, if you can't find a coupon ($5-10 on e-bay) I am told Direct will be selling the HR10-250 for $500 starting 8-1.

This is a wonderful toy and worth every penny!

Thanks, MR. Good to hear.

I was able to track down and am now waiting (patiently?) for a coupon.

Time is getting short.

I'll certainly have my fingers crossed.

Lotsa HD outages lately -- currently I'm not getting a signal for KUSA. Neither 9-1 nor 9-2 are coming in. Everything else is coming in fine so I figure it's on their end. Anybody else?

I'm receiving KUSA 9.1 and 9.2 just fine.

KUSA 9.1 and 9.2 is coming in at 82% at my end.

Huh. I'm getting almost no reading -- and KCNC is coming in fine. Strange, since they're in the same building/same direction. Could something be blocking my reception of that frequency? Experts?

It sounds like your box isn't understanding the PSIP stream .... try rebooting and rescanning.....

So when I got home tonight I turned on the set, preparing to reboot per Geof's suggestion, and I'm getting picture/sound on 9-1. Again. A signal test showed a peak of 60(!) yet I was getting a/v w/out any breakups. A few minutes ago I checked again, and now my peak is 48. And I'm experiencing breakups (bigtime). KCNC is coming in at a peak of 71, and of course KDVR & KWGN are upper 80s. So the question remains, what's going on with KUSA? Any thoughts?

Congratulations to Ernie for getting an editorial about the upcoming tower hearing published in this weeks Columbine Community Courier!! :D

I was unable to find a link to the aritical. If it also appears in the Evergreen Community Courier their may be a link available soon.

BTW 9-1 and 9-2 look ok here tonight.

jc,

The stations cannot touch, change, modify or alter their towers or antennas atop the towers in anyway without getting approval from the JeffCo commissioners.
Too bad there is no good way to blast a directional EMP that would take out the current electronics ... lil forced migration ... never happen.

Phil,

Where did you find my letter to the editor? It's not on any of their websites.

Better yet Ernie, what don't you post it here for us to read. :)

That shouldn't violate any copyright laws seeing as you are the author.... :D

I was just going to ask the same thing. I’d love to read it.

Better yet Ernie, what don't you post it here for us to read. :)

That shouldn't violate any copyright laws seeing as you are the author.... :D
Yeh Ernie I would love to read it.....of course reading is a lot of work, is it out on CD or cassette yet? You could mail us all a copy for a nominal fee.
:D

Here's the letter. (Not sure if the paper edited it)

Title: Front Range Held Hostage!

The upcoming August 30th, Jefferson County Commissioners hearing for the Lake Cedar Group consolidation tower - LCGII, will be one of the most important public hearings held in next 5 years. And almost nobody knows what is truly at stake. If the re-zoning for the LCGII consolidation tower on Lookout Mountain fails, we will not have any, over-the-air, digital TV available to the entire front range until approx 2009. The LCGII application would eliminate four old towers (Including the tallest tower) with one, new, smaller, consolidation tower. And the new tower would use directional technology to send the signals away from Lookout residents and toward Denver. A total win-win for both local residents and all of the front range.

The radical, NIMBY group, Canyon Area Residents for The Environment or C-A-R-E, has consistently tried to block the future of television in the Denver area. Their manifesto of "Eliminate all towers... period", is just a smoke-screen. The real reason is... if all the towers go away, many rich homeowners' property values will skyrocket. And the less fortunate people who cannot afford (or want to support) cable or satellite, will be left with no over-the-air television.

The rhetoric that C-A-R-E publishes, misleads local residents into believing that all radio, television and cell towers are dangerous to live near. But, there has been absolutely no, officially documented research of any danger whatsoever. The reason C-A-R-E's manifesto doesn't hold water is... The members of this group all still live on Lookout Mt. If they were so worried about the danger, wouldn't you move away from the danger? If you truly believed you were injuring your children, wouldn't you move asap? I live up here too, and I check property values all the time. Homes are moving at record pace and value. So, their claim of 'we can't sell our homes because of the towers' is total nonsense. Bottom line, it's not about the any danger, it's all about money.

And the second part of their claim is that no towers should be build near people. OK, then why are they so against building the LCGII consolidation tower near people, but, yet, they fully supported putting a new tower over on Squaw Mt? I guess no one from C-A-R-E lives on Squaw Mt. So, it's fine to build a tower on that mountain and radiate all those families and children. Hmmm?

And by using their "sCARE" tactics to rally residents, it has already influenced the newly elected JeffCo Commissioners. When the new candidates for commissioner were running for office last year, at a public meeting, almost every question from the crowd related to "we will only vote for you, if you deny any new towers". And their response to the angry hostile mob was... If you elect us, there will be no new towers. So, on Aug 30, will their decision already be made?

If this re-zoning fails, and the consolidation tower proposal is defeated, everyone loses. All the existing ugly, omni-directional towers will stay, and there will be no digital tv for all of the front range until approx 2009 when our local TV stations cease broadcasting in NTSC and change-out to the newer DTV.

Great Ernie!

Just one thing....you're probably not on any SCARE Christmas card mailing list.... ;)

Here! Here!

Too bad none of our local print news services have had the guts to turn their investigative reporters loose on this story. One would think that it would be in the Public's interest to know that Denver lags behind most of the major TV DMAs in the transition to DTV and why Denver is making such slow progress. But, with subsriptions dropping, I guess they are afraid to alienate a few dozen Lookout Mountain and Golden residents.

After writing this, I think the JeffCo Commissioners comments sCARE me the most. If they vote NO, they totally open themselves up to possible appeals and other legal action. I wouldn't want to be a Commissioner, thats for sure!

Ernie,

It starts on page 6a of the Columbine Courier and unfortunately it does look like they did edit it by taking out words like the "radical" NIMBY group. etc.

I will try and scan the article.

Check your Comcast e-mail. I could not attach it to a PM.

Problem solved. I went into the attic and gave the antenna a smack upside the ariel. Signal strength on 9.1 jumped into the mid 70s. It truly is a game of inches in Denver.

Nicely done Ernie. I am impressed anyone here can muster up the strength to "CARE" anymore.

Very nice, Ernie.

I’ve always wondered why WB2 and FOX31 seem to refuse to do a story on this. They aren’t apart of LCG, so they’ve got nothing to loose by doing a story on it, right? I’ve mentioned it to them; both conveniently forgot to respond to my letters.

Am I missing something here?

Symbios,

If I'm running the KWGN or KDVR news department, why would I want to highlight the competition? It's not like they are blowing the sox off the competition with their reduced power transmitters that gives them some bragging rights. Would KWGN want to to show the plight of KCNC, KMGH, and KUSA being forced to remain on low power STA's with KTVD not even digitally broadcasting when KWGN remains on 1/2 power for no apparent reason? Same for KDVR with its 223 kW ERP versus its authorized 1 mW due to claimed radiation problems. I think it would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

What I don't understand is the lack of HD coverage by the Rocky and the Post. I emailed the Post's TV writer Kreck regarding lack of noting programming in HD in the daily TV listings and not even carrying a separate program listing for the KRMA HD evening programming. I did not receive a response.

Right now, I perceive this "situation" as a win for sCARE (still no new tower and their hope that all towers will go away remaining alive and well), a win for the stations (the FCC has bought off of this scenario and zero new revenue from HD along with high costs to build HD facilities) and a big loss for the public. Anyone want to give odds that the JeffCo hearing will not be covered by any station's newscasts?

I'm not sure yet if I will be in town Aug 30 for the meeting, but I hope if there is public testimony and not just sCARE dissertations. That someone would pose this question to the new Commissioners...

Commissioners, before you were elected, you stated 'on record' in a public forum that if you were elected, you would not support ANY new towers. So then, it's either this public hearing isn't really needed, if you're going to stand by your solemn word of no new towers? Or were you not telling us the truth when you were campaigning for your JeffCo seat? I believe everyone in this room needs to know which it is.

I'm not sure yet if I will be in town Aug 30 for the meeting, but I hope if there is public testimony and not just sCARE dissertations. That someone would pose this question to the new Commissioners...

Commissioners, before you were elected, you stated 'on record' in a public forum that if you were elected, you would not support ANY new towers. So then, it's either this public hearing isn't really needed, if you're going to stand by your solemn word of no new towers? Or were you not telling us the truth when you were campaigning for your JeffCo seat? I believe everyone in this room needs to know which it is.

Good article Ernie,
How about sending this in as a 9 news tip. KUSA might want to bring this to the publics attention before the hearing?

I'm not sure yet if I will be in town Aug 30 for the meeting, but I hope if there is public testimony and not just sCARE dissertations. That someone would pose this question to the new Commissioners...

Commissioners, before you were elected, you stated 'on record' in a public forum that if you were elected, you would not support ANY new towers. So then, it's either this public hearing isn't really needed, if you're going to stand by your solemn word of no new towers? Or were you not telling us the truth when you were campaigning for your JeffCo seat? I believe everyone in this room needs to know which it is.Good question but I think a slight rephrase to be less inflammatory might be in order. Nonetheless the point is valid....either they're going to vote no like they said they would and in that case why go thru the pretense of holding a hearing or they're not bound to their promise and would to vote for what the evidence tells them.

It could be though that they won't be voting yes/no for the tower but rather yes/no this falling business merits more consideration or not.....in other words is it possible they could just vote to affirm that that the issue at hand has no merit (which indirectly supports the tower and is not a direct vote which gives them an out...)???

You should send that letter to the Highlands Ranch Herald.
Maybe they'll print it too and get more people interested and involved.

Based on my personal experience, the Highlands Ranch Herald is in bed with local politics. Attend or make a presentation of an issue at a Metro District or HRCA meeting and then compare that with what's reported. I don't think the Herald would touch this issue. They'd probably also perceive it to be a JeffCo issue. I find some of their reporters equal to about 20 watts going thru a 100 watt bulb.

This is for anyone that watched CSI (Las Vegas) tonight (Thursday 7/28 from 8-9pm) in HD on CBS via OTA (KCNC-DT channel 4-1).
Did you notice lots of thin, closely spaced vertical lines (like a corduroy pattern) during most of the program? These vertical lines were especially noticeable in areas of Red or Blue and would last anywhere from a second to maybe 10-15 seconds.

Yes, and on "without a trace" too. Every night, every HD program
since June 10, 2005.

Besides the metro papers. I would consider sending this letter to all the cities north of Denver (Boulder,Longmont,Loveland, Fort Collins and Greeley) since without the high power the stations are well useless in the digital domain. You can't even get them on cable or satellite.

Title: Front Range Held Hostage!


Mind if I send it along to a friend of mine? Great letter and I'd like to see it get some more air...

Tim

I have also noticed the close vertical bars on my HD equipment for about the last month or so. I am using the D* HD-Tivo unit running through component video cables to a Mitsubishi DLP set.

I was hoping that CBS engineerswould fix the problem on their own but finally decided to check the forum to see if I was the only one. I take it that I am one of the "lucky" few to be experiencing this problem. Hopefully they will get it fixed before the new season starts.

I have also noticed the close vertical bars on my HD equipment for about the last month or so. I am using the D* HD-Tivo unit running through component video cables to a Mitsubishi DLP set.

I was hoping that CBS engineerswould fix the problem on their own but finally decided to check the forum to see if I was the only one. I take it that I am one of the "lucky" few to be experiencing this problem. Hopefully they will get it fixed before the new season starts.

I have been in direct contact with KCNC about this. Dave Layne, director
of engineering, has told me in phone conversations that they will do nothing about
this because "nobody is reporting this" except me. Therefore, PLEASE call
KCNC and leave a message on Dave's machine. Call the main
number 303861 4444 and ask for Dave Layne. Compose your message ahead of
time because you will get his voice mail, he won't return your call.
Make no mistake, KCNC believes there is no problem and WILL NOT investigate this
unless you call them. Also, call Pat Brus, head of engineering. Direct number
is 303 830 6491. If you get someone besides Pat, don't leave a message.
His people will not pass it on, they are trained to "can" any complaints.
Finally, go to www.cbs4denver/contact/ and fill out a complaint form.
They do actually read these.

GO to the HDTV > local HDTV info and reception > Denver comcast
to catch up on this, far more info and testamonials over there.

I have just been notified by D*, that due to the 'Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act', everyone who is getting DNS, will lose 50% of their channels. Consumers will only be able to get channels from the coast in which they are closest. So, for people in Colorado, that means the loss of the East coast channels. This will happen on, or after 08/25. If D* does not cut the price for the 'service' by 50%, there will probably be some PO'd people.

Apparently, no doubt, once again, acting in our behalf, the FCC is doing their best to speed the transition to digital TV.

At the end of the 'Dear John' letter, D* tells us to 'keep an eye out this fall for some exciting leaps forward in our HDTV offerings'.

Yup, sounds like another, bend over and open your wallet, invitation. :eek:

Although I have no doubt that they will ask for more $$, by fall/winter they should have both Spaceway satellites up and running which will be the first step in providing additional channels, although I thought that was in markets larger than Denver.

KCNC Channel 35, insufficient signal to lock this morning at around 5 AM. Normal signal strength on my Dish 811 is 74 to 75; need 60 to lock. Anyone else see this around that time this morning?

KCNC Channel 35, insufficient signal to lock this morning at around 5 AM. Normal signal strength on my Dish 811 is 74 to 75; need 60 to lock. Anyone else see this around that time this morning?

Same here. KCNC's "signal", such as it is, around 1 dB.

I was getting a fair number of momentary dropouts on KUSA last night during Crossing Jordan and the 10:00 PM news; anyone else, or was it just atmospherics or something (my signal strength for KUSA was as good as it ever is...)

Maybe they (KCNC) are fixing the "vertical lines" problem or got fed up with people complaining about it. ;)



Maybe we hurt their feelings, and they've taken their signal and gone home.
snicker, snicker.....yuck yuck yuck :)

Thanks for all the responses. In answer to your questions my Mits is a 720p hd2+ chip and I set my HDTivo to 720p for hd programming. It seems to show up most prevalently on red sections of the image. I checked on the 1080i output and it seems to clear up the line problem but the picture is not quite as clean.

ksellers,

You might want to re-think your settings. With a native 720p DLP, it usually displays the best PQ when you set your Tivo to output 1080i for channels that are native 1080i (HBO/SHO/CBS/NBC/HDnet etc) and then change the Tivo output to 720p only for native 720p channels like ESPN, FOX & ABC. And some guys even set the output to 480i/p (depending on your cabling) for SD material. The reason is, the scaler in your display will almost always do a better job than the scaler in the Tivo. So by changing the Tivo ouput, you are bypassing the cheapo scaling chip in most HD Receivers. Of course, your mileage may vary and anything is possible. ;)

I did change back and forth for awhile but since the HDTivo doesn't have a setting to passthrough native resolution I just leave it on 720p all the time. The only time I change it is to 480i when a program is letterboxed 480i such as Enterprise or Battlestar Galactica. This way I don't have to mess with the stretch modes on my TV.

Yeah, i don't think there is any Sat/OTA receivers that auto-change their output resolution to match the source. You have to do it manually. A lot of guys have a macro programmed into their Pronto remotes to make it easier.

But, I do notice a bigger difference when I leave my Dish 921 Sat on 1080i than leaving it on 720p. Due to most of the HD material is native 1080i and the scaler in my Marantz 720p DLP does a much better job than the scaler in my Sat Receiver. Fox/ESPN both look better being Sat scaled from 720p to 1080i in the sat receiver, than the native 1080i feeds being scaled down to 720p. Everybody has different results!

That doesn't make sense. KCNC is sending their signal to you in 1080i. Then your Tivo's $1.98 scaler is more likely messing it up when it's converting their signal to your output setting of 720p. If your seeing vertical line issues, it's probably not KCNC and more likely your Tivo's scaler.

Thanks for all the responses. In answer to your questions my Mits is a 720p hd2+ chip and I set my HDTivo to 720p for hd programming. It seems to show up most prevalently on red sections of the image. I checked on the 1080i output and it seems to clear up the line problem but the picture is not quite as clean.

There is a severe problem with KCNC's signal, it's exactly what
you have described.. They ARE NOT going to
fix it unless people call in and complain. Stop waiting and contact
KCNC...now.
Ask for Dave Layne main number is 303861 4444. Leave a message
on his machine, he won't call back so just decribe the vertcal lines you are
seeing. Also, call Pat Brus at 303 830 6491 . Pat is very cordial and
he will talk to you.
Go to www.cbs4denver.com/contact and fill out a complaint form.

This problem is not going away unless you take action.

Except for the fact that it doesn't do the same thing with any other 1080i source material. If it is not KCNC, then why doesn't it show up with WB or NBC.