I thought with the splicer system that FOX uses, if something goes wrong, it’s FOX’s doin’ and not the affiliate.

Yes and no. The station has the ability to override the net feed with the output from their master control at any time. So, in theory, if the station is still sending SD around their house, they could send the upconverted SD to the HD side whenever they please.

But, that said, what they get from Fox net (SD or HD) they have zero control over. The two SD sat receivers (one primary and one backup) and the one HD receiver are under full control of Fox. Whatever Fox sets their HD receiver to is what will be sent to the splicer.

The station can manipulate the front panel controls on the sat receivers to only see status and error messages. They cannot change which satellite it looks at or which of the four feeds on each sat that is there. Even if they removed the modem connection and connected a laptop to the serial port, the remote control via the serial port is password protected.

I had picked up a MAPSCO laminated map of Denver last night and based upon your location description I found the place. It is even marked on the map. From what I can see, the location is surrounded by East 6th and 7th Avenues and Lincoln/Sherman Sts.


I don't know what you are looking at, but Republic Plaza is located between the 16 street mall and 17th street, Court Place and Tremont Place. Remember, in Denver the avenues are east/west and the streets are north/south, therefore 6th avenue runs east/west and is an extension of highway 6. Kinda wierd...

Take 6th avenue (highway 6) west to Golden and before going into Golden turn left on 19th, which will take you up Lariat Trail and all the views and turns the others have mentioned. :eek:

Enjoy your visit!

Tim

Just a few things to remember about a trip up to SCARY Lookout Mt.

- Don't use your Electric Wheelchair.
- Don't go if you have a Pacemaker.
- Your Cellphone won't work.
- You'll get a Brain Tumor just driving through the area.
- And just for fun... bring a Toaster, it'll speak!

I don't know what you are looking at, but Republic Plaza is located between the 16 street mall and 17th street, Court Place and Tremont Place. Remember, in Denver the avenues are east/west and the streets are north/south, therefore 6th avenue runs east/west and is an extension of highway 6. Kinda wierd...

Two different topics. The streets I listed are what border KMGH TV and their coat hanger DTV antenna.

Take 6th avenue (highway 6) west to Golden and before going into Golden turn left on 19th, which will take you up Lariat Trail and all the views and turns the others have mentioned.

This answered a potential question. From the on-line map that I looked at, I couldn't tell for sure if 19th and hwy6 was a control intersection or not. I figured that it was. This verified that.

I was thinking of taking W. Colfax Ave to 6/25 to 6 to 19th and the hills.

Even with the pouring rain, the Bronco game from Invesco on Fox HD sure looked a lot sharper and w/ better color depth than when I see the Bronco games on KCNC HD. Too bad CBS has the AFC contract.

Of course, if Fox did the Bronco games, I would hope those two brainless guys in the booth wouldn't ever work the games. Fourth quarter, Skins down by 11, two long rushing TDs by Denver, all out passing game by Washington, and those idiots keep talking about how Washington shut down the Bronco's running game, the great job Portis is doing, and how good a team Washington is. If you didn't know the score, you'd have thought the Skin's were up by a couple of TDs. Yeah, they got close in the end thanks to two Rookie mistakes on defense.

Just a few things to remember about a trip up to SCARY Lookout Mt.

- Don't use your Electric Wheelchair.
- Don't go if you have a Pacemaker.
- Your Cellphone won't work.
- You'll get a Brain Tumor just driving through the area.
- And just for fun... bring a Toaster, it'll speak!

ROTFL :D

For the record, I don't have a wheelchair of any kind, nor do I have a pacemaker. The cellphone I will have with me and will make sure that it is broken while up there. Some people think that I have a brain tumor :) No room in my luggage for a toaster. It is bad enough that I talk to myself. The last thing I need is a speaking toaster to compete with myself.

Has anyone tried this antenna, XiumAir™ Local Dish TV Antenna (XMA201)

goxium:eek:com/xma201.htm

Kenneth

I had picked up a MAPSCO laminated map of Denver last night and based upon your location description I found the place. It is even marked on the map. From what I can see, the location is surrounded by East 6th and 7th Avenues and Lincoln/Sherman Sts. Definately not far by car. Can one park in their lot, get a photo and then leave, or is it a gated parking lot?
I believe it's a gated lot, but if you don't want to park on the street there are a few fast food type places with lots within a few blocks that you could probably park in while you run down to snap a photo of KMGH.

I doubt you will see their HD antenna, but they have an impressive array of large dishes on the south side of the building that may be photo-worthy. :-)

I doubt you will see their HD antenna, but they have an impressive array of large dishes on the south side of the building that may be photo-worthy. :-)

Am I to assume that one can't see the coat hanger from the street? If that is the case, then it really isn't worth going over there. I've seen plenty C and Ku dishes.

Has anyone tried this antenna, XiumAir™ Local Dish TV Antenna (XMA201)Just by the cheezy website and the fact that it says it receives ALL signals, I'd say no. Is it me, or does it look like a old coffee can painted green on the end? Get yourself a 'real' antenna. Go Channelmaster or another name brand.
http://www.goxium.com/images/xma_root_slash.jpg
http://www.goxium.com/xma201.htm

Just by the cheezy website and the fact that it says it receives ALL signals, I'd say no. Is it me, or does it look like a old coffee can painted green on the end? Get yourself a 'real' antenna. Go Channelmaster or another name brand.
Absolutely.

Now a parabolic dish design is one of the highest gain antennas made. But this bit of info should make people think twice:
No aiming, rotating or tuning. That's the beauty of spilateral technology.
Uh, so the dish is just for esthetics, and the 'Coffee Can' is doing all of the work. Hmmmm.

Now if someone should buy this thing, please bring it up to my 'little test lab', and we'll see what it's really made of!
....jc

One of the Utah translator sites uses a 12-foot dish focusing onto a UHF LPDA antenna. It's a lot bigger than this thing, though. Would probably need a 50-60' reflector to do VHF, though.

Just by the cheezy website and the fact that it says it receives ALL signals, I'd say no. Is it me, or does it look like a old coffee can painted green on the end? Get yourself a 'real' antenna. Go Channelmaster or another name brand.
http://www.goxium.com/images/xma_root_slash.jpg
http://www.goxium.com/xma201.htm

Now we know what Comcast is doing w/ all the satellite dishes they collected during their "turn in your dish" promotional. They attach empty coffee cans from their office coffee club to them, paint them green, and charge an outragious price for more crap. :D

So I tried to watch the last part of the Bronco game this weekend on KDVR, but it was too broken. Dropped audio, stuttered and pixeled visuals, etc.

I normally get FOX at full strength, one of the better stations.

Is this the way it's always going to be with digital broadcasts when the weather gets a little nasty? Or is it just because KDVRs signal isn't full strength?

Cuz I would prefer to at least *see* the game, even it's analog, but that won't be possible after 2009...

5.10,

Your in Highlands Ranch. First, sorry about that ;)

You should be able to get Fox fine. Do you have a decent outdoor antenna.

Ernie,
How many times have you had to scrape the snow off your dish today.

5.10,

Your in Highlands Ranch. First, sorry about that ;)

You should be able to get Fox fine. Do you have a decent outdoor antenna.

I've got a 50" rat shack antenna in the attic.
My house has a direct line of site view of the foothills/lookout, but
I've got the antenna pointing mostly towards RP.
I've received FOX fine for 9 months or so now.

I'm just wondering if snowy, cloudy weather affects digital broadcasts more
than analog?

5.10,
It might be time for a slight realignment.

Tim,
I've got about 8", but I haven't turned the Projector on yet. I'm in my home office editing a video for an Engineering awards program. Kinda' boring. But, as we say about projects like this... "Its for the meal, not for the reel". ;)

Uh, so the dish is just for esthetics, and the 'Coffee Can' is doing all of the work. Hmmmm.

And for the people who are "smart" enough to realize this, the 'Coffee Can' can apparently be purchased sans parabolic dish for "only" $69.95 :D

http://www.goxium.com/xm2000.htm

http://www.goxium.com/images/xi1.gif

I think I saw that one on the Home Shopping Network. You also got a set of Ginzu Knives and a Popeil Pocket Fisherman with it!!!!

I've got a 50" rat shack antenna in the attic.
My house has a direct line of site view of the foothills/lookout, but
I've got the antenna pointing mostly towards RP.
I've received FOX fine for 9 months or so now.

I'm just wondering if snowy, cloudy weather affects digital broadcasts more
than analog?

I also think something has changed. I have a CM4228 pointed at RP. Most of summer I received FOX just fine, but am now experiencing the same thing you are. The CM4228 is outside. In my attic I have a VHF/UHF pointed at Lookout Mountain and FOX comes in just fine even after going through a couple of splitters. No problems at all watching the Broncos in HD using the attic antenna.

Am I to assume that one can't see the coat hanger from the street? If that is the case, then it really isn't worth going over there. I've seen plenty C and Ku dishes.
I can't pick it out when driving by on Speer Blvd, but that doesn't mean it's not visible from somewhere.

The dish farm is pretty nice, though - more than the standard few most stations have.

KMGH signal strength:

I was out of town for two weeks and missed the 9/26 failure.

Getting back I was happy to see my two 921's largely functioned as expected. But, many of my KMGH recordings are experiencing a large amounts of Pixelation/dropout.

Checked my signal strength and I'm down around 10 points (from 80 to 70). I'm at 470/University with a Radio Shack Yagi on the roof. My angles for Lookout/Republic are 298/344 and I have the antenna at around 330. Guess I'll have to see if I can tweak it more towards downtown.

So, reading back it seems many people are getting KMGH stronger then before. Others worse. Is anyone actually receiving it who couldn't before?

(guess I'll be forced to download more HD XVid, and drop the marginal shows off the list)

Its U.S. Patented so it must be good!

Note that it says "You can mount the Xium TV Antenna in any 'out-of-the-way' location for providing excellent reception in any home." and "Full automatic multi-directional tuning without the need for aiming. Get ready for great TV reception!"
Cool, so I can mount it in my basement and get excellent reception of KMGH that I can't get using an outside-mounted Yagi!

It also says "Each Xium TV Antenna is hand-crafted and individually tested for high quality performance"
Gotta keeps those Chinese workers busy!

Is this a US company? I have been told that the first sign of a scam is the lack of proper grammar. Lets quote from their brochure: (http://www.goxium.com/download/xwireless_broc.pdf)

"Indeed has just arisen for an antenna having a low-profile, thus and which provides reception for multiple broadcast signals at maximum energy levels without the need for specific tuning."

"Whereas, Xwireless technology has been described with respect to specific embodiments thereof, it will be understood the various changes and modifications will be suggested, depending on applications to one skilled in the art of specific antenna design and is intended to encompass such changed and/or modifications, and falls within the scope of the intended design."

?????? :confused: :confused: ???????

They must be smart! Just basing my opinion on their use of BIG words ;)

# Matt

[edit to fix my transcribe typos]

So has anyone read up on their patent application? The brochure is typical marketing speak for we will not really tell you how much better we are than "X" brand model number even.

Maybe someone out there can help me. I live in Lakewood about a mile west of Kipling/Jewell. I am currently using a Winegard MS1000 omnidirectional on my roof, and I can dependably get the digital signal for channels 4,6,9,12, and who cares 53. I understand from reading that 7 isn't going to happen as long as they broadcast from the roof of the station, but I would REALLY like to get Fox31 in HD just for football.

I'm at 5800', and if you drew a line from my roof to the towers on Lookout, it would unfortunately pass right over the highest point of Green Mountain at 6700' or so. I do have a clean line of sight to Green Mountain, though.

Here is my three part question:

1) I'm thinking of using some sort of medium range directional antenna pointed at Lookout, something along the lines of the Channel Master CM 3022 or Winegard HD 9065P. I am currently getting a watchable but poor analog picture from 4, and an unwatchable analog picture from 31 (but most of the sound.) So I'm getting at least some signal coming over the hill.

2) If I was to do this, would I be able to use a combiner (like the Winegard CC 7870 Antenna Joiner Coupler,) or should I plan on an A/B switch?

3) Just to make it interesting, I would prefer to mount this on the same two section mast, with the Omni MS1000 on top, and a run of the mill FM antenna just above the chimney. There is probably five feet between those two antennas. Spouse problems would probably prevent a taller or second mast.

I realize it would probably be trail-and-error, but I want to make sure it at least sounds reasonable to someone besides me.

Thanks so much in advance, I've really enjoyed reading through this forum, and I've found it to be an invaluable source of information to get me started with all this.

Pat

1) I'm thinking of using some sort of medium range directional antenna pointed at Lookout, something along the lines of the Channel Master CM 3022 or Winegard HD 9065P. I am currently getting a watchable but poor analog picture from 4, and an unwatchable analog picture from 31 (but most of the sound.) So I'm getting at least some signal coming over the hill.
You might also consider a CM 4228. And, yes(if I have you location correct), you're correct that you probably need 2 different antennas(or a rotor). Unfortunately, the MS1000 is probably your 'weak link'.

2) If I was to do this, would I be able to use a combiner (like the Winegard CC 7870 Antenna Joiner Coupler,) or should I plan on an A/B switch?
Skip the combiner.

3) Just to make it interesting, I would prefer to mount this on the same two section mast, with the Omni MS1000 on top, and a run of the mill FM antenna just above the chimney. There is probably five feet between those two antennas. Spouse problems would probably prevent a taller or second mast.
Be careful out there! Antennas do need adequate space between them. Not enough, and they start to interfere with each other(or become one).

What would I do? Hmmmm. A possible plan:

Buy a CM 4228 and a CM 7775 preamp(and a few inline attenuators)...
Hook it up and see what you get from both downtown and Lookout...
Then you can decide on the next step...
You may not need an FM antenna, just see what you pick up with the 4228(and yup, I know it's a UHF antenna :rolleyes: )...

Unfortunately, that's the nature of this 'business'. Trial & Error.

Hi Pat, and welcome!

I'm in Bear Valley, so terrain is an issue here, too.

I would look into getting a good directional antenna, and use a rotor. I have a CM 4228 on a 15 foot mast and have been able to get all of the locals, even KMGH (when the leaves are down).

Trial and error? Yes. I did the old 'manual rotation' to see which signals I could get, then grabbed a CM 9521A from Stark.

Remember, each connection will cost signal strength, so the most direct connection would be best.

Just my 2¢

Good luck.

Mike

On edit: TPW has a faster keyboard... I'd try without the amplifier for now, as it didn't do me any good here. You might be able to borrow one for testing if you think you'll need it.

Pat,

You also might want to try for Fox on KFCT out of Ft. Collins. If you can get their analog on channel 22, you'll probably get their digital on channel 21.

HDSportsguide is now listing Avalanche HD games that are broadcast on Altitude. As previously reported, they will be available on Comcast chs. 664 or 665, the InHD channels. It makes me crazy to know that there are HD broadcasts available and I can't get them from D* or OTA.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/

Agreed. I heard them praising their HD broadcasts several times last night. So did my wife. "And you spent ~how~ much on all of this stuff???"

I pitched a 'B*tch Letter' to D* and asked for specifics on any dealings with Altitude for an HD broadcast. Not expecting anything more than the basic boilerplate, but at least I got it off of my chest.

Maybe someone out there can help me. I live in Lakewood about a mile west of Kipling/Jewell. I am currently using a Winegard MS1000 omnidirectional on my roof, and I can dependably get the digital signal for channels 4,6,9,12, and who cares 53. I understand from reading that 7 isn't going to happen as long as they broadcast from the roof of the station, but I would REALLY like to get Fox31 in HD just for football.

I'm at 5800', and if you drew a line from my roof to the towers on Lookout, it would unfortunately pass right over the highest point of Green Mountain at 6700' or so. I do have a clean line of sight to Green Mountain, though.

Here is my three part question:

1) I'm thinking of using some sort of medium range directional antenna pointed at Lookout, something along the lines of the Channel Master CM 3022 or Winegard HD 9065P. I am currently getting a watchable but poor analog picture from 4, and an unwatchable analog picture from 31 (but most of the sound.) So I'm getting at least some signal coming over the hill.

2) If I was to do this, would I be able to use a combiner (like the Winegard CC 7870 Antenna Joiner Coupler,) or should I plan on an A/B switch?

3) Just to make it interesting, I would prefer to mount this on the same two section mast, with the Omni MS1000 on top, and a run of the mill FM antenna just above the chimney. There is probably five feet between those two antennas. Spouse problems would probably prevent a taller or second mast.

First off, if you really have the MS1000 (the unamplified flying saucer from Winegard), I'm impressed with what you are already receiving. If you really aren't interested in analog signals or KMGH, an outside omni antenna may not be such a bad choice. Have you considered just upgrading to the MS2000? I have an excess MS2000 in storage. If you want to try it, come pick it up (PM me).

If you are going for a second antenna, the two you noted are on the light-weight side. You need to jump up a notch or two in either vendor's product line. Given your mast space limitations, you probably need to stick w/ a Yagi style antenna.

A/B switches are a pain and unless you already have a second coax run, there's another pain. I'd first try a hybrid splitter/combiner from Rat Shack. If it doesn't work out, you can return it and you are back to running that second coax. That said, combining antenna signals would have a much higher success probability w/ two, highly directional antennas pointed to widely separated azimuths. Combining an omni with an average directional antenna could create some serious multi-path issues for your receiver. In that case, the A/B switch may be your only alternative.

With a Yagi style antenna, you may have just enough clearance between it and your other two antennas to avoid signal interference problems.

What is your digital channel info from antennaweb or your zip code? With a little more data, the folks here would be better able offer comments and suggestions.

KMGH signal strength back up?

My signal strength tonight is back in the mid-80's (from 70 on a Dish Network 921).

Anyone else see a change?

"KUSA-HD is currently off the air.", says my STB.

Also, KMGH has been unavailable for a few days (for me) now.

"KUSA-HD is currently off the air.", says my STB.

Also, KMGH has been unavailable for a few days (for me) now.

I think you have something else going on. Just checked, and both of these are coming in fine.

KUSA at 102
KMGH at 83

"KUSA-HD is currently off the air.", says my STB.

Also, KMGH has been unavailable for a few days (for me) now.

Let me muddy the waters even more. KUSA and KMGH rock solid as always for me tonight, but having a HORRIBLE time with KDVR tonight during the Baseball game, which is normal a solid signal as well. Have not watched KDVR much since the storm hit, but where I live it was mostly rain, so the tree limbs have not changed much, just the leaves. Can't imagine this (leaves) is the reason, but can't rally explain it either. Anyone else with KDVR issues?

The game seems fine to me (though I'm not really watching it). My less then smart 921 thinks it's recording Bones & House. I've been recording since 7. Is there a specific time you saw problems?

First off, if you really have the MS1000 (the unamplified flying saucer from Winegard), I'm impressed with what you are already receiving. If you really aren't interested in analog signals or KMGH, an outside omni antenna may not be such a bad choice. Have you considered just upgrading to the MS2000? I have an excess MS2000 in storage. If you want to try it, come pick it up (PM me).

If you are going for a second antenna, the two you noted are on the light-weight side. You need to jump up a notch or two in either vendor's product line. Given your mast space limitations, you probably need to stick w/ a Yagi style antenna.

A/B switches are a pain and unless you already have a second coax run, there's another pain. I'd first try a hybrid splitter/combiner from Rat Shack. If it doesn't work out, you can return it and you are back to running that second coax. That said, combining antenna signals would have a much higher success probability w/ two, highly directional antennas pointed to widely separated azimuths. Combining an omni with an average directional antenna could create some serious multi-path issues for your receiver. In that case, the A/B switch may be your only alternative.

With a Yagi style antenna, you may have just enough clearance between it and your other two antennas to avoid signal interference problems.

What is your digital channel info from antennaweb or your zip code? With a little more data, the folks here would be better able offer comments and suggestions.

Here is my info from antennaweb. Strangely enough, KDVR and KBDI (which I get fine!) don't show up on the digital side no matter how I "tweaked" the obstruction and single/multi story parameters. And I know they have been there on previous forays to Antennaweb. Zipcode is 80228. This came from my street address.

yellow - uhf,KTFD-DT, 14.1, TFA, 251°, 4.6, 15,
yellow - uhf,KPXC-DT, 43, I, 252°, 4.4. 43.
yellow - uhf,KRMA-DT, 6.1, PBS, 51°, 8.9, 18,
yellow - uhf,KRMT-DT, 40, DAY, 205°, 6.9, 40,
yellow - uhf,KCNC-DT, 4.1, CBS, 51°, 8.9, 35,
green - uhf,KUSA-DT, 9.1, NBC, 51°, 8.9, 16,
red - uhf,KDEN-DT, 29.1, IND, 13°, 31.2, 29,
red - uhf,KWHD-DT, 53.1, IND, 113°, 30.8, 46,
blue - uhf,KTVD-DT, 19.1, UPN, 292°, 6.2, 19,
violet - uhf,KMGH-DT, 7.1, ABC, 58°, 8.6, 17,

And yes, I am reliably getting the stations I listed previously with the MS1000 unamplified "flying saucer" on top of a two section mast. Before I put that up I was getting KUSA (usually,) KMRA and KBDI with my Radio Shack FM only antenna that was pointed at Lookout. I got a Samsung HDTV with built in tuner and just hooked it up to see what would happen. Mission creep took about a week.

I'm hoping that rumors of KMGH relocating their HD rig to Republic Plaza are true, given my experience with the other staions coming from there that would probably work for me. Missing the Broncos on Fox last week in HD really has me motivated to fill in that missing link.

The game seems fine to me (though I'm not really watching it). My less then smart 921 thinks it's recording Bones & House. I've been recording since 7. Is there a specific time you saw problems?

Not really any specific time, but off and on between 6 and 8pm. I seem to be getting it locked in now, but at a lower signal strength than I usually get (I too have a E* 921 for my receiver). I watched "The Office" on KUSA, and then went back to catch the end of the game on KDVR, and it has been fine since then...so I'm now fairly confident that it must be something on my end. Nonetheless, thanks for the info.

Here is my info from antennaweb. Strangely enough, KDVR and KBDI (which I get fine!) don't show up on the digital side no matter how I "tweaked" the obstruction and single/multi story parameters. And I know they have been there on previous forays to Antennaweb. Zipcode is 80228. This came from my street address.

yellow - uhf,KTFD-DT, 14.1, TFA, 251°, 4.6, 15,
yellow - uhf,KPXC-DT, 43, I, 252°, 4.4. 43.
yellow - uhf,KRMA-DT, 6.1, PBS, 51°, 8.9, 18,
yellow - uhf,KRMT-DT, 40, DAY, 205°, 6.9, 40,
yellow - uhf,KCNC-DT, 4.1, CBS, 51°, 8.9, 35,
green - uhf,KUSA-DT, 9.1, NBC, 51°, 8.9, 16,
red - uhf,KDEN-DT, 29.1, IND, 13°, 31.2, 29,
red - uhf,KWHD-DT, 53.1, IND, 113°, 30.8, 46,
blue - uhf,KTVD-DT, 19.1, UPN, 292°, 6.2, 19,
violet - uhf,KMGH-DT, 7.1, ABC, 58°, 8.6, 17,

And yes, I am reliably getting the stations I listed previously with the MS1000 unamplified "flying saucer" on top of a two section mast. Before I put that up I was getting KUSA (usually,) KMRA and KBDI with my Radio Shack FM only antenna that was pointed at Lookout.

Of course 43, 40, and 19 aren't in business yet. Antennaweb must be flakey for your house. KUSA (16) is usually the strongest RP signal for folks in the area, but they call it the weakest. Hmmm! Also strange that you don't get any rating at all for KDVR, KBDI, or KWGN, since they are among the higher power DTV stations. Also, KWHD (not that you care) should be easy for you to receive now that they are full power.

Anyway, to reach the RED rating, you need a medium size outdoor antenna. My prior comment stands regarding going up a notch on your possible selections. Also, given your current success, the amplified version of the MS1000 might also get you as much as you are going to get.

From your Zip Code I see that you are only 5.6 miles from KWGN's LOM tower. Obviously there must be some obstruction between you and it. If that obstruction isn't too close to you, you should be able to pick up KWGN from bent or reflected signals.

All my DTV channels are strong and solid tonight. I'm even locking the signal from KMGH again. Not what it used to be, but strong enough and steady enough to allow viewing. Must be the drier air moving into the area or the groundhog saw his shadow or something.

Moooo!

Oh sCARE/Golden, wherefore art thou sCARE/Golden?

City of Golden to allow radioactive waste in the city landfill (http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e20f1a61-0abe-421a-00f9-da4a03ef35c5&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)

Let me muddy the waters even more. KUSA and KMGH rock solid as always for me tonight, but having a HORRIBLE time with KDVR tonight during the Baseball game, which is normal a solid signal as well. Have not watched KDVR much since the storm hit, but where I live it was mostly rain, so the tree limbs have not changed much, just the leaves. Can't imagine this (leaves) is the reason, but can't rally explain it either. Anyone else with KDVR issues?

I had no problems with KDVR during the game last night as far as the signal goes but I did notice the PQ was very soft/grainy.

Has anybody ever had trouble with their amp? I think mine is acting up. The LED indicator is off, but when I unplug the antenna lead it comes back on. I'm wondering if its the amp's fault or if there is something wrong with the connection at the antenna. It has knocked out all my RP signals. I think I might just go over to RS and get another amp and swap it in.

Has anybody ever had trouble with their amp? I think mine is acting up. The LED indicator is off, but when I unplug the antenna lead it comes back on. I'm wondering if its the amp's fault or if there is something wrong with the connection at the antenna. It has knocked out all my RP signals. I think I might just go over to RS and get another amp and swap it in.

That does sound more like a coax shorting problem to me. But, if it is a Rat Shack pre-amp, anything can happen. I've had two. On one of them the FM trap was activated the opposite of the markings. That took a while to figure out what was going on.

Oh sCARE/Golden, wherefore art thou sCARE/Golden?

City of Golden to allow radioactive waste in the city landfill (http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e20f1a61-0abe-421a-00f9-da4a03ef35c5&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)

Hey, there's a thought! LCG should get out of the television business, get those darn towers off the mountain, and develop their land into a commercial landfill venture. That'd be a win-win-win for everyone involved - sCARE gets rid of those pesky towers, Mines gets a site where they can dump their radioactive waste, and the stations make a great deal of money running the dump!

That does sound more like a coax shorting problem to me. But, if it is a Rat Shack pre-amp, anything can happen. I've had two. On one of them the FM trap was activated the opposite of the markings. That took a while to figure out what was going on.

Thanks CEB II, is it possible that I got some water from the storm into the connection at the antenna?

sunshine,
I had the same problem with my rat-shack pre-amp after using it for two years. Got a new one and it worked for hours then exhibited the same problem. Turned out to be a center conductor corroded at the grounding block outside. I didn't have a boot on it and the block was mounted with one screw so it had shifted and wasn't horizontal anymore and one side was collecting water. when I removed the cable coming in, the center conductor disintegrated when I touched it.

Oh sCARE/Golden, wherefore art thou sCARE/Golden?

City of Golden to allow radioactive waste in the city landfill (http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e20f1a61-0abe-421a-00f9-da4a03ef35c5&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)

Changed my mind about what I was going to say.

Oh sCARE/Golden, wherefore art thou sCARE/Golden?

City of Golden to allow radioactive waste in the city landfill (http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e20f1a61-0abe-421a-00f9-da4a03ef35c5&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)
Maybe they work for(or get paid off by) the Colorado Department of Public Health?

Actually, Lookout Mtn is the Perfect place for this radioactive waste. Perfect. There is plenty of room on the site, and what harm can it do?

We all know that the danger up there is from RF, and that danger far exceeds what a little Radioactive junk can pose. And once the new 'SuperTower' is constructed, no geiger counter will even register the stuff. And they can probaly even just power the transmitters by burying a few wires in the ground. A win, win for everybody.

Besides, what's a few more 3 headed kids, talking trees, or 100 foot snakes?
....jc

Oh sCARE/Golden, wherefore art thou sCARE/Golden?

City of Golden to allow radioactive waste in the city landfill (http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=e20f1a61-0abe-421a-00f9-da4a03ef35c5&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)
:rolleyes:

Think of all the money they could have made, Rocky Flats just finished dumping last Friday, 62,000 loads of radioactive material.


This may be a dumb question? How about this, What is wrong with building the supertower on Elderado Mtn? I haven't seen anyone talk about it. :rolleyes:

Go figure.

Yesterday, no KMGH or KUSA. "Channel is currently off air."


Today I get KMGH, KDVR, KUSA, etc - all signals are rock solid.
First time I've been able to watch a flawless LOST in weeks.

Didn't change a single thing with my antenna or tuner box. *sigh*

Hopefully when a real signal is broadcast in 2009 (yeah right) these problem will go away.

What is wrong with building the supertower on Elderado Mtn? I haven't seen anyone talk about it. I'll take this one.

Been there... tried that... Lost.

http://www.citymtnviews.com/AntEldorado0602.php4

I got rebuted in the Rocky letter section today by some mis-led sCARE cronie.

Jeffco does right thing

It is obvious to me that letter writer Ernie Santella ("Nice going, Jeffco," Sept. 30) does not live on Lookout Mountain. He should do his homework. The three TV towers would not be replaced with a smaller tower, but a much taller one. I believe it was supposed to be more than 700 feet tall.

Also, supposedly free over-the-air digital TV? That's nice, but what is real is the chance of free brain cancer to many Lookout Mountain residents.

The Jefferson County Commissioners have done the right thing ("Commissioners reject plan for TV tower," Sept. 28).

Beverly Overheiser I wrote back, let's see if they print it.

Also, there's a new addition to the hdtvcolorado.com website.On September 27, the Jefferson County Board of County Commissioners voted 2-to-1 against a motion stating that the setback between towers was sufficient to prevent impact on occupied dwellings from multiple tower failure on Lookout Mountain. This motion was the Board of County Commissioners’ response to a remand order from the Jefferson County District Court in which opponents of Lake Cedar’s consolidated tower project have appealed Jefferson County’s two prior approvals of Lake Cedar’s rezoning application. The Commissioners voted on this motion without any deliberation and without making any specific findings as to the basis for their decision.

The Lake Cedar group presented ample competent evidence demonstrating that no occupied dwelling would be damaged in the highly unlikely event of a tower failure during the construction of the new tower and the demolition of the existing towers it would replace. Lake Cedar is disappointed in the Commissioners’ vote and in the possibility that as a result of this vote, Lake Cedar may be prevented from implementing its proposal to safely remove four broadcast towers and replace them with a single, consolidated tower that would allow KCNC, KMGH, KTVD and KUSA to meet the federal mandate to broadcast digital television in Denver. The proposed tower would be setback further from residences than the existing television towers and would meet the County’s setback requirements for telecommunication towers.

The Commissioners’ decision will now be reviewed by the Jefferson County District Court to determine whether it was in error. Opponents of the consolidated tower project are asking the Court to overturn Jefferson County’s prior two approvals of Lake Cedar’s rezoning application so that Lake Cedar may not proceed with the project. It is Lake Cedar’s position that because it complied fully with the Court’s second remand order, and presented competent evidence establishing that occupied dwellings were not at risk from multiple tower failure, the prior two approvals must be confirmed.

I'm not a big BB fan, but I did try to see if the game looked interesting on FX last night. Blacked Out down here in Teller county. The other game was broadcast on Fox. Did anybody in the Denver area notice if FX was blacked out up there?
....jc

This month's IEEE Spectrum had an interesting article about another tower controvery that might be of interest to readers of this thread:

http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/oct05/1866

The cover story is also about Digital TV and the analog shutdown.

Mark

Had a pretty good viewing of Lost last night. The signal was strong. There's were a couple of sloppy transitions to SD at the commercial breaks, but overall I'm satisfied.

I'll take this one.

Been there... tried that... Lost.

http://www.citymtnviews.com/AntEldorado0602.php4

Quoted in the article as one of the reasons why this was rejected: "Not in the best interest of the health, safety, morals, convenience, order, prosperity and welfare of residents of Jefferson County."

Morals? Since when is a TV tower is a detriment to morals? Oh, wait, it must be a phalic symbol.

There's were a couple of sloppy transitions to SD at the commercial breaks, but overall I'm satisfied.
I think one of those sloppy transitions should not have happened. The IBM commercial early on was in HD in other markets.

I'm not a big BB fan, but I did try to see if the game looked interesting on FX last night. Blacked Out down here in Teller county. The other game was broadcast on Fox. Did anybody in the Denver area notice if FX was blacked out up there?
....jc
No it was not blacked out on Dish channel 137. The altfx channel 136 was blacked out however.

No it was not blacked out on Dish channel 137. The altfx channel 136 was blacked out however.


It was not blacked out on DirecTv either.

No it was not blacked out on Dish channel 137. The altfx channel 136 was blacked out however.
It was not blacked out on DirecTv either.
Thanks! Yea, I use D*.

Ok, that's what I was afraid of. The a$$holes at our local affiliate, KXRM probably had a hand in this. Remember, NO WAIVERS - We don't want you watching another FOX station(or FX in this case). This is ridiculous!

I'm glad that this made: Top-O-Page, 'cause it'll be easier for them to find!
....jc

Morals? Since when is a TV tower is a detriment to morals? They must be worried about enhancing the definition on Desparate Housewives. With low-power on the KMGH coat-hanger, those of us up in Boulder are protected from such smut.

Anyone out there have a D* HD Tivo and notice that the OTA channels seems to be running 1-2 minutes early? I noticed this on both ABC and NBC. I recorded the SD version and they were fine for "Lost" and "My Name is Earl" but they started a couple minutes in on the HD OTA feeds. I'm just wondering if this is an every week thing that I have to pad my season passes for....

In the 5 years I've had TiVos (standalone, D* combos, and now the D* HD TiVo), the Denver networks have pretty consistently started shows 1-2 minutes early. I used to think it was a network-level issue until I got the west coast CBS-HD turned on. That station starts and ends shows on time, so it's a local issue.

Kind of surprised that you saw some shows starting properly on the SD channels, though. Like I said, even before the HD TiVo, I was noticing the same problems.

looks like someone at KMGH-DT forgot to flip the "HD switch" for Joey tonight!Joey is on KUSA. I admit it, I watch it for Drea...Grrrrr!
http://www.nbc.com/photos/Primetime/Joey/1JOTakN05.jpg
But, I'm sure somebody at KMGH also forgot to flip a switch, and they must have also forgot to turn on the transmitter. I couldn't get a signal at all! ;)

Yeah, there's a coupla things I also really like about her! :eek: :rolleyes:

grrrrr baby, grrrrr!

The 2 minute early start time at KCNC, KMGH and KUSA and the slightly more than a minute early start time from KWGN, KDVR and KTVD has been happening since I first started timeshifting everything I watch with VCRs...coming up on 10 years ago. This is not a new thing. It's a pain, but you get used to it.

Last night, my wife was watching ER on KUSA. At about 9:30, during a commercial break, KUSA ran a promo regarding their "leadership" in HDTV in Denver. After I watched their newscast, Leno was sent out in SD (until I turned it off at 11:00).

I sent KUSA an email. I pointed out to them that running a promo about HDTV and broadcasting it in SD was an oxymoron, that continuing to transmit with 10.9 kW of power that didn't cover all suburbs and certainly not large population areas such as Ft. Collins displayed a lack of a viable Plan B regarding sCARE, and passing Leno in SD was not acceptable. Bottom line - "leadership" was not the word that came to my mind.

...I sent KUSA an email. I pointed out to them that running a promo about HDTV and broadcasting it in SD was an oxymoron, that continuing to transmit with 10.9 kW of power that didn't cover all suburbs and certainly not large population areas such as Ft. Collins displayed a lack of a viable Plan B regarding sCARE, and passing Leno in SD was not acceptable.
No kidding! If they'd add just another 5kW, I'd probably be able to view them. My receivers consistently program KUSA, but the signal has never been strong enough to lock. And, man, I'm missing WeatherPlus!
....jc

Amazing as it is I get KUSA most nights I guess the thermal tempature cools my preamp enough that I get it to come in most nights. I don't get KCNC though so it isn't all perfect :)

Since the tower defeat is there any rumors that the stations could at least boost the power at RP?

Gosh, I forgot all about WeatherPlus!

The 2 minute early start time at KCNC, KMGH and KUSA and the slightly more than a minute early start time from KWGN, KDVR and KTVD has been happening since I first started timeshifting everything I watch with VCRs...coming up on 10 years ago. This is not a new thing. It's a pain, but you get used to it.

You know, I noticed it in the VCR days, but I spent so much time trying to chase the networks' "clock" I was never sure what the right time was. It's only been since I got my TiVo (which syncs to atomic time on it's daily call) that I've known the local stations can't tell time.


Not to mention they've missed the 1999 full power digital deadline :p

Amazing as it is I get KUSA most nights I guess the thermal tempature cools my preamp enough that I get it to come in most nights. I don't get KCNC though so it isn't all perfect :)

Since the tower defeat is there any rumors that the stations could at least boost the power at RP?

colofan -- I noticed from a previous post you sent to Gakon that I live very close to you...I'm just South of CR14 off Taft. I have never been able to reliably get KCNC (KGWN out of Cheyenne always came in better)...that is, until last night.

Yesterday, I went to Rat Shack to get a FM Trap module (I had previously tried an Amp w/ FM Trap, but that didn't work...probably because of the Amp oversaturating the tuner). After installing the FM Trap on my Silver Sensor (in the attic) and repositioning it, I was able to get a signal for KCNC in the mid-50's. Not only that, but I probably gained at least 5 points on all of the other stations. Fox from Lookout Mtn. is around 90 and from Fort Collins is in the 60's, The WB is in the mid-80's, NBC went from low-70's to low 80's. PBS was mid 50's and is now mid-60's.

Unfortunately, KGWN got worse and breaks up now, but if I can get KCNC reliably, I won't care about KGWN as much. KGWN still has issues with it's audio.

Now, if KMGH would move to RP and transmit at a similar power to KCNC, KUSA and KRMA then I would be all set!

Anyway, something to think about and/or try. You should be able to get KUSA reliably and could possibly get KCNC as well. I seem to get better reception from RP during the nighttime as well (which is good becuase I usually only watch primetime). Good luck!

This has been going on for at least a year or two and happens with both SD and HD so I typically always program my Tivo to start 2 minutes early. This is a pain because it can cause conflicts with shows on other channels and if I forget to pad then I miss the start of the show.

If your Tivo is hacked, look in to EndPadPlus. It will automatically pad the beginning and end of recordings, unless there is a conflict. I have mine set for 2 minutes front and back, and it's been a long time since I missed the beginning of a show.

If your Tivo isn't hacked, what are you waiting for? :D

Been looking at the posts and it seems like people are having some success in getting OTA HDTV in Longmont. I just put up a Terk tv38 with a samsung sir-t451 and I'm not getting any signal at all. I have a broadband antenna at the same height and getting good connection in the Boulder direction. Does anyone have any thoughts like I need to get the antenna higher? Thanks.

Frazee,
There has been alot of us in Longmont that can get all but 7.1 Are you pointed at RP. about 183 deg. I beleive.

I believe I have manually swept that direction to no avail. My next step was to see if I could get the Longmont signal, the HSN I believe it is.

Is your antenna on the roof or in the attic? What part of town are you in?

The antenna is on the roof, a few inches below my broadband antenna which is 6 feet above the roof. I'm near 17th and Pace.

I have satellite but no HD channels on it. I presume I would need a HDTV satellite receiver to put out any signal for the sir-t451 to see.

I have satellite but no HD channels on it. I presume I would need a HDTV satellite receiver to put out any signal for the sir-t451 to see.Not sure what you mean by that. The SIR-T451 is a terrestrial DTV receiver. Your input to the SIR-T451 would have to come from a regular terrestrial TV antenna, not from a satellite receiver.

An HDTV satellite receiver will always have a terrestrial DTV receiver built in. If you supply it with feeds from both a satellite Dish and regular TV antenna, it will then integrate the HD channels supplied from satellite with whatever local HD stations you can receive, putting them all into one seamless program guide.


I've never had one myself, but the Terk antennas are not well regarded on this forum. Even so I would expect you to be able to pickup the DTV signals for KWGN and KDVR with most anything. To get the other main channels (KCNC, KUSA, and KRMA) from Longmont you'll need something a lot better, like the Channel Master 4228.

I was replying to the question about if I had hooked up cable to the t451 to see if I could get any HD signal from there. I do have the roof antenna connected to the t451 and it shows no signal at all. My concern is that the antenna is still too low for nominal line of sight. The antenna is about 5 feet off the roof of a 2 story house that is most of the way up a hill whose peak is west of the antenna.

Been looking at the posts and it seems like people are having some success in getting OTA HDTV in Longmont. I just put up a Terk tv38 with a samsung sir-t451 and I'm not getting any signal at all. I have a broadband antenna at the same height and getting good connection in the Boulder direction. Does anyone have any thoughts like I need to get the antenna higher? Thanks.

I live in Longmont, near Pace and 17th. I get CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX , and WB
OTA. I can advise as to OTA reception, let me know if you are interested and we
can talk on the phone, or email, whatever you like.

Kind of surprised that you saw some shows starting properly on the SD channels, though. Like I said, even before the HD TiVo, I was noticing the same problems.

I checked it out... it was shows recording on the East coast feed that start on time...not the locals. So it's just a locals issue. Annoying. Thanks for the validation.

Got an email from Jacob Smith, another Golden City Council member. They really do think that the existing towers are going to go away. He wasn't clear whether by the stations themselves or by Eminent Domain Seizure. My question to him (before the vote) was basically; "Do you realize that if this proposal is not passed, you will be stuck with 4, old technology, omni-directional towers forever."

The short answer to your questions is this: most of the towers on Lookout will slowly be phased out regardless. The only major question is whether or not a new and large tower would be constructed. Our belief is that it represents a health threat and would further degrade our mountain backdrop, especially given that the other towers will slowly be removed anyway. Moreover, my obligation is to represent folks in the City of Golden, and the sentiment here in town is overwhelmingly, resoundingly, enthusiastically anti-supertower. My opposition is based on both of these things - that I think the supertower is inappropriate and that the people I represent think the same. I very much appreciate and respect that you see it differently. My experience serving on the City Council is that on virtually every issue, no matter what decision you make, there will be folks who disagree (and often energetically), so I make the best decisions I can while acknowledging and respecting the folks with whom I disagree. In that spirit, I really do appreciate your thoughtful comments.I think we should send him a Boycott T-Shirt!

I can't pick it out when driving by on Speer Blvd, but that doesn't mean it's not visible from somewhere.

The dish farm is pretty nice, though - more than the standard few most stations have.

If I get a chance, I'll give a drive-by and find a parking place.

In the 5 years I've had TiVos (standalone, D* combos, and now the D* HD TiVo), the Denver networks have pretty consistently started shows 1-2 minutes early. I used to think it was a network-level issue until I got the west coast CBS-HD turned on. That station starts and ends shows on time, so it's a local issue.

I haven't had a chance to watch anything except local news at 10 (if I get back in time from the convention building) and Nightline. Since the local affiliates have to record everything (except Fox [HD and SD] and NBC [SD, don't know about HD], which have Mountain feeds [I think ABC should be starting one for SD now that they have gone digital satellite]), I've noticed that the ABC affiliate consistantly starts Nightline 2 minutes late. The show is supposed to start at 10:35 MT. Guess they gotta get in those extra commercials. :)

OK, I walk out of my hotel, the Adam's Mark, and I look up at the tall Republic Plaza building, searching for the DTV antennas that are supposed to be there. Are they so short that you can't see them from the ground?

I live in Longmont, near Pace and 17th. I get CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX , and WB
OTA. I can advise as to OTA reception, let me know if you are interested and we
can talk on the phone, or email, whatever you like.


Frazee

Sorry I had to run off before I could offer any assistance, If you haven't had any luck yet. The same goes here as Roller said. Just let me know, I am in the same area as you.

Roller,

have you tried using a pre-amp to see if you can get KMGH, I thought about buying one and rolling the dice.

Is there anyone using D* that is getting the CSU vs BYU game blacked out tonight on Fox RM?

Thanks,
....jc

I'm in S. Lafayette and can't get KMGH even with a preamp. If anything, the preamp hurt more than it helped. We're just too far away to get KMGH.
Ah, come on now! We all know that everything is location based. Distance is not a determining factor(within reason).

Preamps are so misunderstood it's pathetic. They have their place, but they aren't magic.
....jc

The CSU/BYU game was on Fox RM on E*.

"The short answer to your questions is this: most of the towers on Lookout will slowly be phased out regardless. The only major question is whether or not a new and large tower would be constructed. Our belief is that it represents a health threat and would further degrade our mountain backdrop, especially given that the other towers will slowly be removed anyway."

You should ask him, perhaps in a more-public forum like the newspaper, if this means he is in favor of "phasing-out" local businesses (like TV and FM broadcasters) in favor of satellite companies, internet sales, and others. Maybe a TV reporter could corner him on this during his next re-election campaign.

Does Colorado charge any taxes on satellite TV and radio?

Is there anyone using D* that is getting the CSU vs BYU game blacked out tonight on Fox RM?

Thanks,
....jc


I watched it last night on DirecTv.

Ken,

It's futile talking or writing to any of them. They will not even listen to any facts presented to them. I've sent letters laying out each issue in detail and they just respond with the same scripted answer.

If LCG loses with Judge Jackson (Legally, he should have to rule on the facts, not just the Commissioners promises) they should just make the change-out soon. Start the promotion on air and in the newspapers that in the 6 months, we will switch to DTV. Catch JeffCo off-guard and make the change before they get any further with their Eminent Domain Sesizure. It would create huge public anger and make the City of Golden look like idiots to be the ones responsible for turning off OTA in Denver.

Originally Posted by TotallyPreWired
Is there anyone using D* that is getting the CSU vs BYU game blacked out tonight on Fox RM?

Thanks,
....jc

I watched it last night on DirecTv.

MK,
Do you subscribe to ESPN Gameplan? Apparently the game was part of that package, and that's one reason the CSR indicated why it was blacked out. I've never had a game on Fox RM, blacked out before. This is starting to piss me off.

Other weird things are starting to happen. Let's see now I've got WNIT(34) - Michigan PBS, WNOL(38) - New Orleans WB(twice), KMSG(55) - California Hispanic, showing up as local channels. Only one of the WNOL's is viewable. I doubt that these are 'Significantely Viewed' stations, as they are no where near Colorado!

....jc

I watched it last night on DirecTv.
Myself too watched the game on D*- sad to say (though they did start to make a comeback in the last half) And the picture looked terrible

I do not have the Sports Package either.

Reggie

TPW,

I do not have the ESPN Gameplan. But I can't ever recall the games on Fox Sports being part of the ESPN Gameplan...

Well, I just wasted a 1/2 hour on the phone with D*, and they had no idea why the game was blacked out for me. It was a Gameplan game, but that should not matter. I have a feeling that their 'Black Out' system has gotten so complex, they don't even know what's getting shown or not. And those weird stations that I mentioned earlier are still there(after rebooting the receiver).

I did ask that the info was escalated to corporate. The next time that this happens I'm afraid that it'll be a game that I really wanted to watch!
....jc

OK, I walk out of my hotel, the Adam's Mark, and I look up at the tall Republic Plaza building, searching for the DTV antennas that are supposed to be there. Are they so short that you can't see them from the ground?

I got my question answered last night while talking with Steve when he gave me a private tour of KCNC. I got to see all the neat nooks and crannies of the station. As I told Steve last night, I want their new video wall.

I want to thank Steve for inviting me over to take the tour of the facility. Thanks Steve.

After leaving the station I went up to Lookout Mountain, using the I70 way to get to Lookout Mtn Road. Going that way works out the best to stop at the lookouts. Took Cedar Lake Rd to right near KCNC's tower. My cell phone certainly did not work :) It tried, but the front end just got swamped.

I did some of the back gravel roads as well. As far as I am concerned, the people that built houses right next to the towers have nothing to complain about. If KCNC's current tower were to fall (ya right), it certainly isn't going to hit anyone. I'm at a total loss as to what sCARE is bitching about. I know, preaching to the choir.

I'm watching the Bronco game via KGWN as KCNC is a no show today. I've tried 3 different antennas, no joy. And CBSW is showing the Charger vs Raider game, so that's not an option.

KGWN is sometimes pixelated on some of the close shots, but I'm getting good signal strength(somewhere in the 80's - There are only 3 signal 'zones'). They have improved the sound by leaps and bounds. Last year, at times it's was terrible. Today, crisp and clear.
....jc

Got an email from Jacob Smith, another Golden City Council member. They really do think that the existing towers are going to go away. He wasn't clear whether by the stations themselves or by Eminent Domain Seizure.Personally I think their bias on the issue is made clear by their continued representation of LCGII as a "supertower" as if it would be some huge, hulking structure that would dwarf or otherwise overwhelm the other towers already there.

Personally, I really wish someone would show the folks in Golden that they get far more RF exposure from the cell phones many of them have surgically attached to their heads than would be the case from the new tower's tenants…

I'm at a total loss as to what sCARE is bitching about. I know, preaching to the choir.The answer is simple:

How much will those $750,000+ homes on Lookout be worth if the "ugly towers" are removed?

Heck, given what some of the houses up there look like, I won't be at all surprised if the owners don't start filing to seize their neighbors' houses under eminent domain because their new showplace home would be worth even more if it wasn't next door to a rambling 1970s-era mountain shack.

Then again, if you've also seen how many of those folks keep their landscaping, particularly their trees, after the next major forest fire on Lookout there won't be too many of them left anyway; a good half of them would come under the definition of "indefensible" as determined by any reasonable fire protection district…

Google Earth is another way to get a look at Lookout Mountain.
Use the "search" function and the geo coordinates from the FCC website and you can see where all the towers are......visually, too!

Thanks to roller11 who verified for me that my settop is working, I did a slight re-alignment of my antenna, re-crimped a coax connector, and I'm getting the two signals from lookout now. Next step is to figure out how to get RP, another antenna, rotor or ??. I can start digging through maps, but I'm pointing at 184 degrees, can someone venture a guess as to what RP might be from there? Thanks.

...Then again, if you've also seen how many of those folks keep their landscaping, particularly their trees, after the next major forest fire on Lookout there won't be too many of them left anyway; a good half of them would come under the definition of "indefensible" as determined by any reasonable fire protection district…

Here's another tact. Promote the towers as lightning rods that are protecting the residents from lightning-sparked forest fires! Certainly they would want to keep them for protecting their property. :rolleyes:

Frazee,

I'm in Longmont northwest of 17th and Pace. I'm picking up KWGN and KDVR digital with an attic antenna. With this setup I didn't have any luck with any of the other stations, but I'm in a ranch-style house on the downhill side of some other houses and the big church so I don't have a good line of sight from here. If I could only convince the wife that a TV antenna outside wouldn't look that bad...

, can someone venture a guess as to what RP might be from there? Thanks.About 172° and a range of 31 miles, from you to RP

While it hasn't been officially released by the Senate Commerce Committee, a draft of legislation pertaining to the digital TV transition has begun circulating Capitol Hill.

A Commerce Committee Staff member said the bill contains a hard date for the digital TV transition, which is proposed for April 7, 2009 in the legislation.

That date was picked in an effort to give consumers three holiday shopping periods, as well as three Super Bowl games, to purchase a digital TV set, the staffer said.Let the shopping begin! :)

I am an occasional lurker here, and this is my first post. This may be known to you already, but I wrote to KMGH over the weekend and got this reply. It looks like I may be able to see the Super Bowl in HD (on either DirecTV or OTA).

HuskerScott

-------------------------------------
We've ordered a new transmitter and antennae and we're negotiating with Republic
Plaza to locate our over the air HD service ther with channel's 9, 4, and 20.
Direct TV is telling us that they will have launched the local HD signals by
then as well. We are also connecting a fiber link to Comcast to provide a hard
wire feed to them.
That's the latest.
Darrell Brown.
General Manager
---------------------------------------

Three and a half years to the hard shutoff! Too long! With that much time there won't be any near term pressure on the local broadcasters to show progress.

While it hasn't been officially released by the Senate Commerce Committee, a draft of legislation pertaining to the digital TV transition has begun circulating Capitol Hill.

A Commerce Committee Staff member said the bill contains a hard date for the digital TV transition, which is proposed for April 7, 2009 in the legislation.

That date was picked in an effort to give consumers three holiday shopping periods, as well as three Super Bowl games, to purchase a digital TV set, the staffer said.
Lets make that four holiday shopping periods. I didn't think it was that hard to count to four. Now then again maybe everybody has already done their Christmas shopping for this year so 2005 doesn't count.

"Three and a half years to the hard shutoff! Too long! With that much time there won't be any near term pressure on the local broadcasters to show progress."

Hey! 3-1/2 years is about what it would TAKE to build a facility like that. They'd better break ground this month.

We've ordered a new transmitter and antennae...---------------------------------------

The new and improved model, Coathanger++.

Anyone know if all they are going to brodcast is another 10 Kwatt transmitter?

Kind of hard to reach here up north even with the new location and bigger transmitter (hoping fo 100 Kw).

The new and improved model, Coathanger++.

ROTFL :)

Direct TV is telling us that they will have launched the local HD signals by then(The next Super Bowl?) as well.
Now that would be good news! Can it happen?:

Well maybe! Detroit is the 1st city to get D*'s HD LIL, supposedly any day now. They have indicated the other 11 cities will follow in November. If that happens, and Denver is in the next 12 cities, can they get Denver online in 60 days? Hmmm.

Will I benefit? Hard to tell, I'm not in the Denver DMA, but 3 Denver stations are listed as 'Significantly Viewed' in my area. I did talk with an HD CSR this weekend, and she indicated that I would be able to get a new receiver & Dish due to the SV channels. Do I really think that this will happen? After all of the sh*t we've all been through, No.
....jc

-------------------------------------
We've ordered a new transmitter and antennae and we're negotiating with Republic
Plaza to locate our over the air HD service ther with channel's 9, 4, and 20.
Direct TV is telling us that they will have launched the local HD signals by
then as well. We are also connecting a fiber link to Comcast to provide a hard
wire feed to them.
That's the latest.
Darrell Brown.
General Manager
---------------------------------------As I've mentioned before, there is a low-power religious station which also broadcasts on channel 17 from Boulder. Even if KMGH moves to RP, I foresee this being an HD-killer for Boulder and Longmont. What is the process for resolving conflicts like this? Is there any way to pre-emptively start that process?

... I wrote to KMGH over the weekend and got this reply...

I did the same, except (just for "fun") I used their web interface to request a D* HD waiver. Here's their reply:


Channel 7 does not grant waivers to viewers within its Designated Market Area.

For your information, Direct TV indicates it will be able to deliver our HD signal by the end of the year. In addition, we plan on delivering a much better over-the-air signal in time for the Super Bowl.

Thank you for your patience, and thank you for writing.

Don't bank on a KMGH signal from RP to be any stronger than any of the other signals coming from there - I seem to recall hearing a couple of years ago that the stations are already broadcasting at about their maximum levels, based on permissible radiation exposure levels for the people who work in RP. And, the antenna heights on the building are limited to under either 12' or 14' (don't remember which), due to building structural issues. So, those two combined means that KMGH's and KTVD's signals won't be any stronger than any of the other RP stations.

Now, that said, those of you up north, if you can currently receive KUSA, but can't receive KCNC due to broadcast frequency, you'll at least have a chance at KMGH and KTVD.

oxothuk,

I filed an email complaint with the FCC regarding low power analog channel 27 interfering with my reception of analog channel 27 from Cheyenne. I really didn't care, but I filed the complaint just to see what the FCC would say. I believe the local low power (Spanish language) came on the air in January 2005.

The reply I received from the FCC stated that, and I'm paraphrasing, extensive reception and field testing is done to determine interference before a low power station is granted a license. Any issues involving interference after the license is granted must be pursued by the station (in this case, the Cheyenne station) whose signal is interfered with. I sent the FCC email reply to the Cheyenne station and never heard a word from them.

The situation with KMGH DT 17 is a little different since the religious channel in Boulder has been on the air since approximately 1984, well before KMGH DT. Applying the logic to this situation from the response I received from the FCC would indicate that the Boulder station could complain about interference from KMGH DT rather than the other way around.

Now, that said, those of you up north, if you can currently receive KUSA, but can't receive KCNC due to broadcast frequency, you'll at least have a chance at KMGH and KTVD.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for. I receive KUSA and KBDI from RP no problem. It's KCNC that is intermittant (better at night than during the day). So, hopefully, KMGH and KTVD will transmit at power levels similar to KUSA and KBDI once they are on RP. Given the frequency, then, I will have a shot at getting them as well...

The answer is simple:
How much will those $750,000+ homes on Lookout be worth if the "ugly towers" are removed?

There were $750k houses there? I couldn't see them very well at night, but what I saw near the towers didn't seem to be that expensive.

Heck, given what some of the houses up there look like, I won't be at all surprised if the owners don't start filing to seize their neighbors' houses under eminent domain because their new showplace home would be worth even more if it wasn't next door to a rambling 1970s-era mountain shack.

What I did look at looked like summer cabins that one would have in northern Wisconsin.

Then again, if you've also seen how many of those folks keep their landscaping, particularly their trees, after the next major forest fire on Lookout there won't be too many of them left anyway; a good half of them would come under the definition of "indefensible" as determined by any reasonable fire protection district…

Couldn't see the landscaping very well in the dark. Even though it was a full moon.

Hell the back roads to all of the houses I went by were dirt roads. Not even paved.

As an outsider that did a cursory view of the area, I just do not understand their problem. Guess that I'm just too biased. Would I live that close to a tower farm. Probably not, because I know about front end overloading and other RF problems. But living up there would be nice, at the right distance. I'd have great HD reception.

Maybe the RF has affected the sCARE people's brains in a fashion that makes them think crazy.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for. I receive KUSA and KBDI from RP no problem. It's KCNC that is intermittant (better at night than during the day). So, hopefully, KMGH and KTVD will transmit at power levels similar to KUSA and KBDI once they are on RP. Given the frequency, then, I will have a shot at getting them as well...

I can't get anything from the south. All my HD comes out of the north and the fox feed from Ft collins. Although your not too far away maybe I should try harder?

This has been going on for what, seven years now? What’s another three?

I am an occasional lurker here, and this is my first post. This may be known to you already, but I wrote to KMGH over the weekend and got this reply. It looks like I may be able to see the Super Bowl in HD (on either DirecTV or OTA).

HuskerScott

-------------------------------------
We've ordered a new transmitter and antennae and we're negotiating with Republic
Plaza to locate our over the air HD service ther with channel's 9, 4, and 20.
Direct TV is telling us that they will have launched the local HD signals by
then as well. We are also connecting a fiber link to Comcast to provide a hard
wire feed to them.
That's the latest.
Darrell Brown.
General Manager
---------------------------------------

"Direct TV is telling us that they will have launched the local HD signals by
then as well." Hmmm! Since D* isn't expected to have Denver in their first batch of 12 LiL cities early next year, that means that KMGH is expecting to have their new antenna and transmitter operational by the time D* launches their second batch of LiL, w/ Denver included. Sounds like mid-2006 to me. No SB on ABC in HD unless you can pick up the current anemic signal from KMGH's toy antenna.

After seeing the follow-up posts that indicate that KMGH actually expects to be broadcasting from RP by the SB, I withdraw that aspect of my above comments. However, given that D* is only this week STARTING their LiL experiment in Detroit (no one in Detroit currently has an MPEG-4 receiver to receive D* new HD broadcast and they can't get that HD signal w/o it and a new dish), I sincerely doubt that their will be LiL HD from D* for the SB. Maybe the NBA finals.

mattn6 - your profile to Republic Plaza doesn't look great, but remember that the top of the building is over 700' above ground, and the antenna is even higher. So you should have a shot.


Well,

I spent the entire weekend trying to get RP. The short answer is NO.

I tried Roofline (1 1/2 story), roof + 5 feet, roof + 10 feet, and roof + 15 feet. All locations with and without an amplifier/fm trap. Using a CM 4228 and a HR10-250 (DTiVo).

Best strenght was a 29 from 9-1. I do get 31-1 and 2-1 in the low 90's.

I guess too much inteference and elevation in the way. I may try Cheyenne.

Anyone w/ a CM 4228 give a hint on whether I need to remove the back shield to better get North stuff (as the 31-1 and 2-1 I get best at due south)? Or best shot at Cheyenne?

# Matt

I can't get anything from the south. All my HD comes out of the north and the fox feed from Ft collins. Although your not too far away maybe I should try harder?

Depending on where you are, it might be worth a shot. I have a couple of friends in FTC that only get the same channels that you do. One of them has an antenna in their garage rafters and the other has an indoor setup. They have not been able to get any RP stations.

As has been mentioned before here, location matters a lot. I recently took my little Silver Sensor from my 2nd story attic (in the Southern most place I could get it) to on top of the roof, outside, not more than 3 feet from where it had been in the attic. Reception for the most part got worse...not all that much...but it did get worse. I would have expeced it to get better since the signals are no longer attenuated by the house roof and siding material. Go figure...

For me, it helps that I'm just South of Loveland and far enough North of Longmont that it probably doesn't interfere. And, the property to my South is farmland...flat, no trees, no tall buildings...

Anyone w/ a CM 4228 give a hint on whether I need to remove the back shield to better get North stuff (as the 31-1 and 2-1 I get best at due south)? Or best shot at Cheyenne?The back shield is a reflector, which is part of the design; I wouldn't remove it.

I would suggest just turning the antenna around to the North. You are more likely to get the Lookout Mountain stations with the antenna pointed North than you are to get the Cheyenne stations with the antenna pointed South.

Anyone have an idea what's wrong with KRMA-DT tonight? Signal strength is just as high as normal, but no program.

We are also connecting a fiber link to Comcast to provide a hard
wire feed to them.

Gee, I wonder who paid for that.

KTVD's STA for RP is for 6.47 kW of ERP. That's about 1/2 of what the stations currently on RP send out. The coverage area map from the FCC website is basically the same for the current RP stations and KTVD despite the difference in ERP. It does not include Loveland and points north - it ends north of Longmont and south of Berthoud . I could not find a new STA application for KMGH to move from its current location (and presumably increase its ERP) to RP

Anyone w/ a CM 4228 give a hint on whether I need to remove the back shield to better get North stuff (as the 31-1 and 2-1 I get best at due south)? Or best shot at Cheyenne?

Although it does change the design of the CM4228, removing the back shield has allowed me to get KGWN from Cheyenne while having no effect on the signals from the south. It's the best possible option for me right now, because I do not get the RP signals up here.

Reattaching the shield is no problem, so as long as you're reasonably gentle while removing, there's no risk in giving it a try.

Still no KRMA-DT for me - they were out last night also. Is anyone picking them up?

Just up the street from you, but I just tried it and I have the same thing. No picture, but a strong signal indication. Don't remember trying to look at it last night though.

Nothing here either in SE Aurora. Full scale on the signal strength. I have two HDTV tuners and same thing on both. I just tried to call KRMA but they were closed.

KTVD's STA for RP is for 6.47 kW of ERP. That's about 1/2 of what the stations currently on RP send out. The coverage area map from the FCC website is basically the same for the current RP stations and KTVD despite the difference in ERP. It does not include Loveland and points north - it ends north of Longmont and south of Berthoud . I could not find a new STA application for KMGH to move from its current location (and presumably increase its ERP) to RP

If I got this right, that means channels 16, 17, 18, and 19 all broadcasting from the same location. Since many of us have to use a pre-amp to receive the RP signal, that could spell trouble for any of the 4 signals w/ significantly less ERP, in that the lower power signal could suffer from co-channel interference.

Isn't it wonderful how we just get to trade one problem for another in our quest to merely watch 21st Century TV.

Just up the street from you, but I just tried it and I have the same thing. No picture, but a strong signal indication. Don't remember trying to look at it last night though.


i have the same issue with KRMA. I get 90% reception on my Dish 942 but no picture. Has anybody heard what the issue is?

jason

I thought the problem with KRMA was on my end until I checked here. They were up and running this afternoon. I was watching some SD cooking show. Maybe they are having trouble with their HD programming?

Maybe they are having trouble with their HD programming?
I wonder if that problem would be the same problem that's forced PBS affiliates all over the country to drop PBS-HD - money. Apparently PBS is charging affiliates (more?) to carry PBS-HD content and as a result, PBS stations all over have reverted to SD content on their DT channel.

At the least Gilmore Girls was in 4:3 on KWGN-DT last night; I don't watch the other shows on the WB Tuesday nights so I can't speak for those. :confused:

Edit: It did pop into 16:9 HD for the last 15 minutes or so.

“Supernatural” was SD also for the first 10 minutes or so, and then it went to HD. I guess someone fell asleep at the wheel over there.

I wonder if that problem would be the same problem that's forced PBS affiliates all over the country to drop PBS-HD - money. Apparently PBS is charging affiliates (more?) to carry PBS-HD content and as a result, PBS stations all over have reverted to SD content on their DT channel.

I would think if that was the case they would have put thier SD on in place of HD. Why would they just leave it blank?

Yeah, it doesn't fit with the 10/1 date that the other stations went dark, either. It was just a thought.

I wonder if that problem would be the same problem that's forced PBS affiliates all over the country to drop PBS-HD - money. Apparently PBS is charging affiliates (more?) to carry PBS-HD content and as a result, PBS stations all over have reverted to SD content on their DT channel.


Not quite everyone... We installed equipment to allow us to program our own HD service.. we have the rights to most of the HD programming but no rights to the promos or branding.. PBS wanted $60K /yr from us to add the spots and build a schedule.. The equipment to allow us to "roll our own" is under $25K .

We are running HD only (no upconverts) for the 22 hrs /week that we were passing PBS HD.

All,

Sorry about the lack of HD on Gilmore Girls and Supernatural. We had a switching failure in our router that routes the satellite feed to the record device.

Staff has been flogged.....

Dave Martinez
KWGN-TV
Engineering Maintenance Supervisor

I would think if that was the case they would have put thier SD on in place of HD. Why would they just leave it blank?
I've seen no issues with KRMA-DT on Comcast, so KRMA is trying to get something out.

I've seen no issues with KRMA-DT on Comcast, so KRMA is trying to get something out.

It's back up, I watched "Secrets of the Dead" tonight.

All,

Sorry about the lack of HD on Gilmore Girls and Supernatural. We had a switching failure in our router that routes the satellite feed to the record device.

Staff has been flogged.....

Dave Martinez
KWGN-TV
Engineering Maintenance Supervisor

Dave,

Thanks for always keeping us informed. And for the humor...

It is greatly appreciated.

Thank you, Dave.

Dave, As long as someone is thoroughly punished .. we're happy ;)
Thanks for the update.

While it hasn't been officially released by the Senate Commerce Committee, a draft of legislation pertaining to the digital TV transition has begun circulating Capitol Hill.

Well the story in the Rocky today makes note that the cut-off day is the day after the 2009 NCAA BB Championship Game. I guess they just wanted to make sure that America was forced to one more time watch blurred figures in various colors play basketball, while relying on the announcer to tell them what just happened. Or maybe they figure folks won't remember how poor the broadcast images were by the time NFL football rolls around and they are seeing digital broadcasts.

U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) will push for an earlier transition of analog television spectrum to emergency response organizations, saying the April 2009 deadline proposed in a Senate draft bill could cost lives during crises.
McCain, whose Save Lives bill would establish a late 2008 deadline, said he plans to push for a late 2006 or early 2007 deadline for television broadcasters to abandon the spectrum. A hearing on amending the DTV transition legislation is scheduled for Thursday before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, and a committee draft bill would set the transition in April 2009, after the U.S. college basketball tournament.
McCain also plans to propose an amendment to push up the digital transition date to April 7, 2007, according to the amendment list.
Well, all this sh*t was supposed to happen today. We need to track this closely, and show our support for McCain.
....jc

John McCain has been fighting for us for many years. Way back on May, 1st 2002 he wrote this. (http://mccain.senate.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=Newscenter.ViewPressRelease&Content_id=447)

The fact that we've seen lackluster progress in 3-1/2 years, tells us what?
....jc

OT - sorry...but,

I'm looking to sell my Pioneer VSX-49txi flagship AV receiver and wondered if there are any places in the metro area that deals in used high-end stuff (or if anyone here is interested).

Thanks, and pardon the interruption.

I notice a 9-3 showing up tonight, a weather radar channel.

Anyone notice an effect on 9-1?

April 7, 2009 is what the committee decided on...

See This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593928)

Greg

I notice a 9-3 showing up tonight, a weather radar channel.

Anyone notice an effect on 9-1?
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

I didn't have anything scheduled to record tonight on NBC. I looked at ER for about a minute. I don't normally watch ER, but what I saw was not impressive. Could be that ER is generally not impressive; I don't know. I'll see how the news looks tomorrow morning.

Thumbs down KUSA :(

I just checked ER on KUSA, was not impressed. The radar on 9-3 is ridiculous. That's what their Doppler page on their web site is for.

I have a couple of items that I would like to sell also but I thought it was against forum rules to offer personal items for sale because before you know it everyone will be posting what they have for sale. Am I correct or mistaken?

I think you are probably right. If the mods are bothered by it, I'm sure my post will be deleted. There weren't any complaints from management about Jetlag's yard sale, although he certainly had more extenuating circumstances than mine.

I was really looking for a local shop that deals in used equipment, but figured I would throw the bit on the end in case anyone here was interested.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

Thumbs down KUSA :(

They didn't flip the switch for Leno, for the opening monologue. It was fixed after the first commerical break. The picture seems to be a little softer than in the past. What a shame.

Yeah, KUSA is effectively sending out what looks a lot like 16:9 SD.

I've said it before, those of us who have ATSC capability now are seeing the highest definition signals that we ever will until HD-DVD/Blu-Ray come out; between multicasting and cable and satellite operators recompressing HD signals further and further, picture quality will only go down from where we were even a year ago.

Or the picture's not going to get any better than it was for the last Olympics, Sony commercial and all. :-(

There were $750k houses there? I couldn't see them very well at night, but what I saw near the towers didn't seem to be that expensive.

What I did look at looked like summer cabins that one would have in northern Wisconsin.
Many of the houses along Lariat Loop are indeed mid-six figures, and the houses just past the peak of the hill in the Genessee area start around $600K these days and go up from there.

Likewise the houses a bit further down the hill in Golden are all $600K and more, and the newer homes on Lookout reach $1M.

Real estate prices in the foothills are a bit silly; to put things in your local frame, many homes in the foothills are as wildly overpriced as those in Pabst Farms. (Does anyone moving there from anywhere but Illinois actually pay those prices?!?!)

Hell the back roads to all of the houses I went by were dirt roads. Not even paved.
There are a lot of $1M+ houses with gravel driveways in the foothills, especially a bit further out towards Evergreen.

Maybe the RF has affected the sCARE people's brains in a fashion that makes them think crazy.You're correct.

Basically, sCARE comes out and say they're concered about health issues but really want to get rid of the towers so their real estate values go further up.

This is like the way many cities around here have passed growth limitations to maintain "quality of life;" the fact that a zero new homes policy makes the resale value of existing homes skyrocket has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

I got rebuted in the Rocky letter section today by some mis-led sCARE cronie.

I wrote back, let's see if they print it.

Any chance you could post your response here, since the RMN is apparently not going to print it?
I, for one, would like to see it.

Hey everybody, question for you. I live in the Belleview/Kipling area in southwest Denver. Lots of trees and two story houses. When I got my HD DVR installed the tech attached the off-air ant to the lower portion of my house and I can only bring chanel 2. I am thinking that if I move the ant to the upper portion of the roofline, possibly the chimney stack that my reception should be dramatically better. I am hoping that maybe someone is familiar with this area and can give me any ideas about antennae placement. I am assuming that I should point it towards downtown?

Thanks for your help.
Mark

I am assuming that I should point it towards downtown? Go to www.antennaweb.org and punch in your address. This should give you a good idea which way to point your antenna.

Ugh...9-3 today is now screenshots of their website...this really blows...they must be making sooooooo much revenue up by showing off their website.

Yeah, KUSA is effectively sending out what looks a lot like 16:9 SD.

I've said it before, those of us who have ATSC capability now are seeing the highest definition signals that we ever will until HD-DVD/Blu-Ray come out; between multicasting and cable and satellite operators recompressing HD signals further and further, picture quality will only go down from where we were even a year ago.

Or the picture's not going to get any better than it was for the last Olympics, Sony commercial and all. :-(

The biggest PQ factor is not compression, not which particular network,
but the way the progs are produced. There are *vast* differences from
one show to the next. Before blaming KUSA for poor PQ,
compare Crossing Jordan to "Office". CJ is so ugly, I almost want
to vomit. Yet Office, SNL, and Leno are superb, especially Office which
is arguably the best PQ on TV today. If KUSA was inherently bad PQ, then
Office would not look as good as it does.

If KUSA was inherently bad PQ, then
Office would not look as good as it does.
Let's see how "The Office" looks next week.

The news this morning did not look good. You know how when they added 9-2, the news would look like garbage coming out of a transition and then stabilize to pretty decent PQ? It doesn't do that anymore.

Boo KUSA.

I noticed two things last night on my Dish 811 about KUSA. When I punched in 9-1, it either took much longer before the signal locked or it didn't lock at all and I got the "signal lost" screen. In playing with it, I found it sometimes took 3-4 times before the signal would lock. I also noticed the signal % dropped. I was consistently getting 84-85%, last night it was no higher than 80%. Perhaps they were having transmission issues, perhaps it was due to adding 9-3? All of the other channels were unaffected.

Hey everybody, question for you. I live in the Belleview/Kipling area in southwest Denver. Lots of trees and two story houses. When I got my HD DVR installed the tech attached the off-air ant to the lower portion of my house and I can only bring chanel 2. I am thinking that if I move the ant to the upper portion of the roofline, possibly the chimney stack that my reception should be dramatically better. I am hoping that maybe someone is familiar with this area and can give me any ideas about antennae placement. I am assuming that I should point it towards downtown?

I am at Simms and Belleview roughly, and I get all the downtown channels OK with the 4' Radio Shack UHF antenna on my roof, pointed towards downtown. 2, 4, 6, 9 all come in great, 7 is sketchy but has been pretty good ever since the Monday Night Football debacle.

I also get 31, even though I think they're on Lookout instead of downtown.

Hi Everyone,
Is Broncos game this Sunday going to be in HD?
Thanks,
Jacek

All,

Sorry about the lack of HD on Gilmore Girls and Supernatural. We had a switching failure in our router that routes the satellite feed to the record device.

Staff has been flogged.....

Dave Martinez
KWGN-TV
Engineering Maintenance Supervisor

Get the flogger back out. What was up with Smallville last night? No picture, just sound at the beginning, and then constant switching between SD/HD towards the end. My wife was quite annoyed.

Hi Everyone,
Is Broncos game this Sunday going to be in HD?
Thanks,
Jacek

That's what they say...

NFL on CBS: Doubleheader - Week #7
1:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Pittsburgh @ Cincinnati (HDTV)
1:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Indianapolis @ Houston
1:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. San Diego @ Philadelphia (HDTV)
4:15 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Denver @ N.Y. Giants (HDTV)
4:15 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Buffalo @ Oakland
4:15 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Tennessee @ Arizona
4:15 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Baltimore @ Chicago
....jc

KUSA's 9-3 web subchannel is gone. My signal is back up to 85%.

I want to thank everyone here for all the information and tips that have been posted.
I have been lurking and reading posts from you knowledgeable folks and gleaning whatever I could in order to figure out the best way to get the best possible OTA HD signal at my location (39.634266 -104.806316) in SE Aurora.

Based on what I had read here, I replaced an old VHF/UHF radio shack antenna with a ChannelMaster 4228 and aimed it at 298 magnetic about 17 feet AGL.
My results are as follows:
KWGN-DT IND 90%
KCNC-DT CBS 80%
KRMA-DT PBS 90%
KMGH-DT ABC 70%
KUSA-DT NBC 100%
KBDI-DT PBS 100%
KDEN-DT IND 70%
KDVR-DT FOX 90%

Thanks again for being here.

The biggest PQ factor is not compression, not which particular network,
but the way the progs are produced. There are *vast* differences from
one show to the next. Before blaming KUSA for poor PQ,
compare Crossing Jordan to "Office". CJ is so ugly, I almost want
to vomit. Yet Office, SNL, and Leno are superb, especially Office which
is arguably the best PQ on TV today. If KUSA was inherently bad PQ, then
Office would not look as good as it does.KUSA didn't have inherently poor picture quality.

Leno used to look jaw-droppingly incredible around 1.5 years ago.

The picture quality dropped off somewhat when they started sending out "Weather Minus" on 9-2.

When they were toying with 9-3 Leno didn't look much better than an upconverted DVD, e.g. 16:9 SD.

Thankfully, 9-3 is gone tonight, but given how 9-2 came and went before finally settling in, I expect it will be back. :mad:

Yep, no one has Internet access; let's send out the same cr*p over ATSC and make HD look as bad as many DirecTV/DISH channels do, after all no one complains about them…

Any chance you could post your response here, since the RMN is apparently not going to print it?
I, for one, would like to see it.Sorry guys, I've been out of the country up in the great white north of Canada, shooting some HD. They called and said they are going to print my response any day now. Oh, what the hell, here it is. Let's see if they edit it!
As response to Ms Overheiser's letter, my family does live on Lookout Mt. And it's many like yourself, that has been misled by the C-A-R-E organization.

First, the proposed Lookout Mt. consolidation tower would be smaller at 730' compared to the current 850' KCNC tower that would be removed.

Second, all the current towers on Lookout Mt. are 'omni' directional. All the current RF signals are sent in all directions, including right back at the homes on Lookout Mt., including mine. The new proposed consolidation tower would be 'directional', meaning the RF signals would be sent away from our homes and toward the east. The problem now is that since this tower has not been approved, all those existing, ugly, omni-directional towers will stay... forever, regardless of what (S)-C-A-R-E says!

I'm sorry, but it is you that is mis-informed and should do your homework.

Leno used to look jaw-droppingly incredible around 1.5 years ago.



I don't watch Leno much, but I watched it last night (Fri., Oct. 21). It looked as
good as it did when I first got into HDTV in Aug., '03. Since that time, I rarely
watch Leno. What is your metric for judging PQ on Leno?
How is it worse now? Grainier? washed out colors? aliased diagonal lines?

What do you guys think of the PQ on the ND/BYU game on NBC? The picture looks 'soft', at least on Comcast. It certainly doesn't look like 16:9 SD, but maybe not as good as other HD on NBC. I wonder if it isn't the production equipment.

What do you guys think of the PQ on the ND/BYU game on NBC? The picture looks 'soft', at least on Comcast. It certainly doesn't look like 16:9 SD, but maybe not as good as other HD on NBC. I wonder if it isn't the production equipment.
I just checked, and on D* it doesn't look too bad. Of course, I have no way of seeing the bitrate. So, I'd have to rate it average for the HD broadcasts that I've seen.

Another thing to note, is that it's in HD. How many games is ABC broadcasting today? None of them are in HD.
....jc

What do you guys think of the PQ on the ND/BYU game on NBC? The picture looks 'soft', at least on Comcast. It certainly doesn't look like 16:9 SD, but maybe not as good as other HD on NBC. I wonder if it isn't the production equipment.I thought it looked OK OTA, but not as sharp as the Tenn/Alabama game on CBS. I guess its relative.

Anybody looking for a Channel Master 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna in the Denver area, I have one I'm looking to get reid of.

Kenneth

Hey everybody, question for you. I live in the Belleview/Kipling area in southwest Denver. Lots of trees and two story houses. When I got my HD DVR installed the tech attached the off-air ant to the lower portion of my house and I can only bring chanel 2. I am thinking that if I move the ant to the upper portion of the roofline, possibly the chimney stack that my reception should be dramatically better. I am hoping that maybe someone is familiar with this area and can give me any ideas about antennae placement. I am assuming that I should point it towards downtown?

Thanks for your help.
Mark
Marksnewa10:

I'm in Grant Ranch, near Belleview and Wadsworth. I get all OTA HD stations, including KMGH, with my CM 4221 mounted on my roof.

Bob

Anybody looking for a Channel Master 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna in the Denver area, I have one I'm looking to get reid of.

Kenneth

You have a PM.

It's a moot point now, but I should throw this out there anyways - when KUSA was doing their 9-3 web channel, they were pulling most of the bandwidth for it from the 9-2 subchannel, NOT the 9-1 main channel. 9-1 was being sent at 14.5 MB/s, 9-2 was being sent at 2.5 MB/s, and 9-3 was being sent at 1.5 MB/s. All readings reported from my Hipix card.

Meaning, 9-1 wasn't affected as much as we feared, at least bandwidth wise.

It's a moot point now, but I should throw this out there anyways - when KUSA was doing their 9-3 web channel, they were pulling most of the bandwidth for it from the 9-2 subchannel, NOT the 9-1 main channel. 9-1 was being sent at 14.5 MB/s, 9-2 was being sent at 2.5 MB/s, and 9-3 was being sent at 1.5 MB/s. All readings reported from my Hipix card.

Meaning, 9-1 wasn't affected as much as we feared, at least bandwidth wise.
I thought 9-2 was normally around 2.5 Mb/s.

Of course, we all know that anything less than 18 Mb/s doesn't cut it for HD. When will station owners/GMs understand that?

So why did the Tennessee - Alabama NCAA game look so much sharper than the Broncos - Giants NFL game? Same network, different field equipment?

The sharpness of CBS NFL games shown in Denver has been consistently below average as HD football games go. Why?

I thought it looked OK OTA, but not as sharp as the Tenn/Alabama game on CBS. I guess its relative.

OTA in Longmont...I thought it looked very good sharp, but the macro blocking was
notoceably bad vs CBS. It gave the pic a 'rough' look, hard to watch when the action
fast moving. When the long range camera was showing relative static scenes,
like slowly breaking the huddle and walking to the line, the PQ was great.
So far, the sharpest/best PQ has been the Pittsburgh/Jacksonville game.
The NFL games on CBS has had variable PQ, the SEC college game has been consitently good.

A better question is why FOX NFL games keeping going from upconverted 480i
to HD, back and forth. During Sundays game, I counted at least 10 such transistions.
This happpens on every FOX game this year and last.

A better question is why FOX NFL games keeping going from upconverted 480i
to HD, back and forth. During Sundays game, I counted at least 10 such transistions.
This happpens on every FOX game this year and last.


I watched the entire Packer/Viking game yesterday on Fox 31-1 and didn't notice that at all. As a matter of fact, I watch Fox every Sunday (though sometimes it's through D* and the Sunday Ticket) and I've never noticed that...

It could be that one or two cameras are just WS SD and they intercut them. I've seen that quite a bit. They usually do it on the odd angles or replays where they iso something.

No you can easily identify the SD cameras in Fox NFL broadcasts. I've noticed the issue that roller11 is talking about. For no apparant reason the whole picture, even the HD camera goes 480i for a few plays and then after a break or a replay it's back in true 720p.

No you can easily identify the SD cameras in Fox NFL broadcasts. I've noticed the issue that roller11 is talking about. For no apparant reason the whole picture, even the HD camera goes 480i for a few plays and then after a break or a replay it's back in true 720p.

I haven't seen that except for an occasional sideline special shot or odd angle replay. Otherwise the Fox31 HD has been among the best available locally. Also, their all HD pre-game show at 10 AM each Sunday has excellent PQ and is all HD, with the occasional exception of some integrated SD w/ side brackets, like ESPN-HD does most of the time.

The Fox pregame show is not HD.

I watched the entire Packer/Viking game yesterday on Fox 31-1 and didn't notice that at all. As a matter of fact, I watch Fox every Sunday (though sometimes it's through D* and the Sunday Ticket) and I've never noticed that...

You aren't very observant.

Not only does the pic go fuzzy, blurry and jaggies, the sound also changes.
You can hear the announcers voices in the rear channels of Fox's
5.1, it is precisely coincident with the degradation in PQ.

With NFL games it is purely random, coming and going, having no relationship to
which camera is on at the time. For example, it happened right in the middle of a running play, while the main camera was in frame (Packers/Vikings). It stays in this poor PQ state
for a few minutes, and then back to normal. During this time, other cameras came into play,
all of them were also in this PQ state, so it has nothing to do with whichever
camera is on at the time. Sometimes it can stay in this state until the next commercial,
then after the break it is back to normal. Or, sometimes it just returns to normal at a random time before the break.

With the MLB baseball, the prob is more predictable. It is the exact same thing, only during the ALCS and NLCS, it always happened in the bottom of the seventh inning. Once in this state, it stayed until the end of the seventh, and after returning from commercial, the rest
of the game was normal. Same symptom...fuzzy blurry PQ, jaggies in diagonal
lines, and announcers voices in the rear dolby channels. Interestingly, the prob did not occur during the first WS game (I didn't watch the second game).

I called FOX and discussed this vacillation between SD widescreen and HD with Rick Wheeler, he contacted corprate FOX about it.

I wish I could've seen the Denver @ Giants game in HD on Sunday. DirecTV (and Zap2It also) had the wrong guide data for KCBS. They showed the (spit) Raiders. BTW, DISH had the correct data for KCBS.

Gakon,

Can you run a profile of my LOS to the Cheyenne 5-1 tower? I was wondering if it was even worth my while since I can't get RP.

Lat:
40.138146N
Long:
105.152591W

# Matt

Did anyone watch Medium on KUSA-HD last night. I recoreded it on my D* HDTIVO and noticed several breakups. Sometimes the audio would stay and the picture would disappear. Sometimes both would go out. I probably noticed this about 10 times throughout the show, and each instance lasting about 1 to 5 seconds.

I always record a "backup" on the other tuner...the D* KUSA SD sat feed...in case I was having reception problems. THe KUSA-HD OTA recording got so bad at the end, I had to switch over to watch the SD backup.

If it was purely reception problems, it's the first time I have had any with KUSA.

Did anyone watch Medium on KUSA-HD last night. I recoreded it on my D* HDTIVO and noticed several breakups. Sometimes the audio would stay and the picture would disappear. Sometimes both would go out. I probably noticed this about 10 times throughout the show, and each instance lasting about 1 to 5 seconds.

I always record a "backup" on the other tuner...the D* KUSA SD sat feed...in case I was having reception problems. THe KUSA-HD OTA recording got so bad at the end, I had to switch over to watch the SD backup.

If it was purely reception problems, it's the first time I have had any with KUSA.

I recorded Medium last night onto my hard disk but haven't watched it yet. I'll check it out today (Tues.) and get back to the forum, thanks for posting.

Did anyone watch Medium on KUSA-HD last night. I recoreded it on my D* HDTIVO and noticed several breakups. Sometimes the audio would stay and the picture would disappear. Sometimes both would go out. I probably noticed this about 10 times throughout the show, and each instance lasting about 1 to 5 seconds.

I always record a "backup" on the other tuner...the D* KUSA SD sat feed...in case I was having reception problems. THe KUSA-HD OTA recording got so bad at the end, I had to switch over to watch the SD backup.

If it was purely reception problems, it's the first time I have had any with KUSA.

Apparently the entire NBC network was doing that due to Ku rain fade in New York on GE's network feed.

Apparently the entire NBC network was doing that due to Ku rain fade in New York on GE's network feed.

I didn't have any problems with the NBC SD sat feed. Does D* get that feed in a different way where rain fade wouldn't affect it?

Did anyone watch Medium on KUSA-HD last night. I recoreded it on my D* HDTIVO and noticed several breakups. Sometimes the audio would stay and the picture would disappear. Sometimes both would go out. I probably noticed this about 10 times throughout the show, and each instance lasting about 1 to 5 seconds.

I always record a "backup" on the other tuner...the D* KUSA SD sat feed...in case I was having reception problems. THe KUSA-HD OTA recording got so bad at the end, I had to switch over to watch the SD backup.

If it was purely reception problems, it's the first time I have had any with KUSA.

Just checked it out, problem exactly as you described.
OTA, Longmont

So why did the Tennessee - Alabama NCAA game look so much sharper than the Broncos - Giants NFL game? Same network, different field equipment?

The sharpness of CBS NFL games shown in Denver has been consistently below average as HD football games go. Why?

Night game vs day game maybe? I didn't see the Tenn-Al game, so that's just a guess.

The Fox pregame show is not HD.

It is on Fox31 in metro Denver. OTOH, the CBS pregame show, at least in metro Denver, is in SD.

Night game vs day game maybe? I didn't see the Tenn-Al game, so that's just a guess.

Both games were late afternoon/early evening, EDT.

Can you run a profile of my LOS to the Cheyenne 5-1 tower? I was wondering if it was even worth my while since I can't get RP.
Since I ran the wrong profile the first time, you get two of them. The first is to Cheyenne Mountain, for when one of the stations there goes high power. gkanders asked for this profile a while ago, and yours is very similar (the major obstructions being closer to CS).
I also ran the profile you requested. Again, the profiles do not include the height of the tower. You might want to see if gkanders has had any luck with either of these stations.

It is on Fox31 in metro Denver. OTOH, the CBS pregame show, at least in metro Denver, is in SD.

Unless Fox31 has a locally produced pregame show in HD, I can assure you that it is not HD. Just because a show is passed in widescreen does not mean it is HD.

Yeah the Fox pregame show is definitely upconverted SD widescreen

I don't watch Leno much, but I watched it last night (Fri., Oct. 21). It looked as
good as it did when I first got into HDTV in Aug., '03. Since that time, I rarely
watch Leno. What is your metric for judging PQ on Leno?
How is it worse now? Grainier? washed out colors? aliased diagonal lines?The picture is notably softer now than it was before 9-2. This can be seen most often on the background buildings on the backdrop. Many of the buildings have signs and writing on them, all of which could be clearly made out before; now it's a bit harder to read them. The picture tends to pixellate more on fast action as well.

The picture is notably softer now than it was before 9-2. This can be seen most often on the background buildings on the backdrop. Many of the buildings have signs and writing on them, all of which could be clearly made out before; now it's a bit harder to read them. The picture tends to pixellate more on fast action as well.

I just posed this same question to Rick Wheeler, head of engineering at
KDVR, the FOX station. I asked him how decreased bandwidth affects
PQ. His answer was the 'tiling' or 'macroblocking' would be adversely affected,
which would explain your claim of pixellation, also, my observation of the ND
game on NBC. It was very sharp, but it was more pixellated on fast motion
scenes vs CBS. Just to be clear, I asked him if decreased bandwidth would
have an affect on still or near still scenes. His response was 'no'. If a scene doesn't change from one frame to the next,
zero bandwidth is required to do MPEG-2 encoding, so decreased bandwidth would
have no effect whatsoever. In general, extra compression is used only
when the scene change exceeds the available bandwidth. This means that
Leno would not be affected at all in scenes when there is very little motion,
which contradicts your claim of softer image. Unfortunately, I have not
saved any .tp files from Leno Aug. 2003, the lettering you mention would be conclusive proof of who is correct, you or Wheeler.
Until I see proof otherwise, I would assume that all things being equal except bandwidth, the compression ratio would be the same assuming there was enough
bandwidth to service the frame to frame change.

The picture is notably softer now than it was before 9-2. This can be seen most often on the background buildings on the backdrop. Many of the buildings have signs and writing on them, all of which could be clearly made out before; now it's a bit harder to read them. The picture tends to pixellate more on fast action as well.I'm not sure using the backdrop to make PQ sharpness comparisons is a good idea. It might well be that they are using a different camera aperture which would affect depth of field and ultimately result in how sharp the background is compared to the main subject. For example, they may have lowered the lights and opened the aperture a bit which could account for the background becoming more blurred.

On D*, resolution is reduced prior to compression, thus reducing the motion artifacts to a tolerable level (and, as a result, refered to as HD Lite). This same technique, if applied by KUSA to make the motion artifacts more tolerable, would have the effect as described by kucharsk. We would need more info from KUSA to know this.

For those who are interested, Ernie Santella's latest letter in response to the Lookout Mountain tower issue is in today's Rocky.

Since I ran the wrong profile the first time, you get two of them. The first is to Cheyenne Mountain, for when one of the stations there goes high power. gkanders asked for this profile a while ago, and yours is very similar (the major obstructions being closer to CS).
I also ran the profile you requested. Again, the profiles do not include the height of the tower. You might want to see if gkanders has had any luck with either of these stations.

Thanks gakon!!! I will give KGWN a shot! I'll pm gkanders about local reception.

Thanks again!

# Matt

Nobody gets it.

But, the papers are pretty open to this topic. Why doesn't someone else write a letter about Golden trying to use Eminent Domain to remove the current towers on Lookout and leaving us all "In the Dark".

Since I ran the wrong profile the first time, you get two of them. The first is to Cheyenne Mountain, for when one of the stations there goes high power. gkanders asked for this profile a while ago, and yours is very similar (the major obstructions being closer to CS).
I also ran the profile you requested. Again, the profiles do not include the height of the tower. You might want to see if gkanders has had any luck with either of these stations.

Mattn6,

Your profiles do look similar to mine. I haven't moved my antenna yet, so I don't know how things will work. I'm trying to figure out if I can get KGWN from the back of my antenna (analog comes in just a little through the back, but the antenna at this point is 8' above the ground and in the garage. It will soon be at about 40' above the ground and outside. If I can get KGWN through the back, the front can be pointing at Cheyenne Mtn., and hopefully I'll be able to get something from there. I'm a little hesitant to try for fear of losing RP stations, but I may be able to get them as they'll be about 40 degrees off angle. At this point, I don't think there is anything else out there (CS) and KGWN seems to have its own issues, so I haven't gone to the trouble yet.

Thoughts from a sleep-deprived native Chicagoan (28 years in Colorado). How wonderful the technology growth in my lifetime. I was in grade school (there weren't any middle schools or junior highs back then) the last time the White Sox were in the WS (1959). The principal allowed those of us that had them to bring those tiny, "cheap Japanese", transistor radios to school so we could monitor the progress of the games. In those days, even all WS games were played during the day.

This week I've been sitting back in my recliner watching the Sox in widescreen HD on a 50" set w/ DD5.1 sound. Wow, we've come a long way from static-y cheap radios and fuzzy picture B&W 17" TVs to what we have now. Makes one thankful to live in this time and to live in this affluent country.

OK, enough nostalgia, I've got to go find something to rant about, while waiting for the Sox to wrap up this WS. Don't think it will be tonight though.

On D*, resolution is reduced prior to compression, thus reducing the motion artifacts to a tolerable level (and, as a result, refered to as HD Lite). This same technique, if applied by KUSA to make the motion artifacts more tolerable, would have the effect as described by kucharsk. We would need more info from KUSA to know this.

This would be a question for Don Perez, top engineer at KUSA.
I'll drop him an Email, he's been very responsive in the past.

Ok, calling all fellow Lovelandites! I am fixing to put up my DB8 antenna and I was just looking for a little advise. I live in the Seven Lakes area of Loveland and my house faces east. I had originally thought that I would be limited to installing the antenna in the attic due to HOA rules. However, I have found that the FCC has laws against HOA anti-antenna rules, YIP-ee!! Anyway, I would like to know what would be better. I don't want to press my luck with the neighbors so I will not be erecting and super tower on top of my 2 story home. My thought was to discretely install the antenna outside possibly below a gable on either the north or south side of the house. My question is it better to focus on Fort Collins and Cheyenne or "shoot" for Denver? In addition to all that, any suggestions on amps and such?

Ok, calling all fellow Lovelandites! I am fixing to put up my DB8 antenna and I was just looking for a little advise. I live in the Seven Lakes area of Loveland and my house faces east. I had originally thought that I would be limited to installing the antenna in the attic due to HOA rules. However, I have found that the FCC has laws against HOA anti-antenna rules, YIP-ee!! Anyway, I would like to know what would be better. I don't want to press my luck with the neighbors so I will not be erecting and super tower on top of my 2 story home. My thought was to discretely install the antenna outside possibly below a gable on either the north or south side of the house. My question is it better to focus on Fort Collins and Cheyenne or "shoot" for Denver? In addition to all that, any suggestions on amps and such?

Not being a Lovelandite or Lovelander, I can't comment on location and direction (BTW, I assume you've already looked at antennaweb.org and 2150.com for their input), but I can suggest a pre-amp. No doubt that you will need a pre-amp, and a powerful one at that. The best you can do w/o going exotic is the Channel Master, Titan Series, Model 7777 (UHF/VHF). The Model 7775 is equal for UHF, but filters out VHF. So the 7777 is a safer bet for the uncertain future. The 7777 is the lowest Noise Factor pre-amp you can readily obtain in this country for a reasonable price. Low noise factor is important for locking very weak signals.

Sox Win! Fox loses! While the video for the WS game last night was very good, the DD5.1 audio kept dropping out on my unit, even during some commercials. The problem went away as soon as the local Fox news came on. Anyone else see this problem? My signal strength/quality meter reading never varied by more than 2 points.

CEB II - well as a fellow "lowlander" so to speak, thank you for the good leads on pre-amps I will check into the 7777.

Sox Win! Fox loses! While the video for the WS game last night was very good, the DD5.1 audio kept dropping out on my unit, even during some commercials. The problem went away as soon as the local Fox news came on. Anyone else see this problem? My signal strength/quality meter reading never varied by more than 2 points.

There has been a big difference in PQ from one playoff site to the next.
The games in Chcago looked bad, very grainy and fuzzy, like looking through
a glass pane coated with milk residue. The PQ from Houston was excellent,
as good as it gets from FOX. And in all the WS games, there was no vacillating
between HD and upconverted SD like there was in all the playoff games.
As to DD5.1, it has varied from one night to another.
Two nights ago, it was unstable, dropping in and out. Other nights it's been Ok.
However, I'm not the best person to judge, as normally I have only the two rear channels
connected, this because if the DD is working right, you don't hear the announcers voices
in the rear channels, only the sounds of the game. I do this so I don't have to hear Tim McCarver, I can't stand his commentary. Still, I heard changes in the rear
channels which verifies your observation .

CEB II - well as a fellow "lowlander" so to speak, thank you for the good leads on pre-amps I will check into the 7777.

I live in SW Loveland and have tried the CM7777. It made things worse for me. I would guess that I oversaturated the tuner, but I didn't really mess with it too much.

I just recently bought an FM Trap from RatShack, which seems to have helped a little. It seemed to be worth the 5 bucks.

Check out some of my other previous posts to see what you can expect to get in your area. For me, it's pretty much everything except ABC.

Good Luck!

No doubt that you will need a pre-amp, and a powerful one at that.
Be careful out there! ;) Most preamps have too much amplification. The CM 777* series preamps are very good(I have one), but unless you've got a very log cable run, it's more power than you'll need. All you need to cover is the line loss(2-3db per 50') and your receiver's noise factor. That's it.

So, almost every system could use a preamp(unless all of your signals are strong), and with a preamp, you'll likely need to add some inline attenuators to avoid an overload situation.
....jc

Be careful out there! ;) Most preamps have too much amplification. The CM 777* series preamps are very good(I have one), but unless you've got a very log cable run, it's more power than you'll need. All you need to cover is the line loss(2-3db per 50') and your receiver's noise factor. That's it.

So, almost every system could use a preamp(unless all of your signals are strong), and with a preamp, you'll likely need to add some inline attenuators to avoid an overload situation.
....jc

My pre-amp recommendation was based on receiving the very low power digital signals here on the Front Range in a location, Loveland, that isn't, I believe, very close to any of the broadcasting towers. For full power analog signals, even in Loveland, a pre-amp probably isn't necessary. In addition, if signal overload is problem at the receiver, a screw-on 6-db attenuator on the receiver's input should take care of the problem. With the relatively weak signals available in Loveland, it is highly unlikely that the amplifier would be overloaded.

With the relatively weak signals available in Loveland, it is highly unlikely that the amplifier would be overloaded.
I was really talking about overloading the receiver! ;)

CEB let's look at it this way:
100' RG-6 = about 5db attenuation
Receiver Noise = hard too tell, say 3db
CM 7775 = 26db gain

So, we've got 26 - (5 + 3) = 18db

18db too much gain at the receiver. And, yes, an attenuator should be used to cut that down.

The real problem is that some of these preamps just have too much gain. It's probably so that they can just manufacture 1 model, and they assume that the user will be using attenuators to cut the gain down.
....jc

With the relatively weak signals available in Loveland, it is highly unlikely that the amplifier would be overloaded.Overload doesn't have to come from the signal he's trying to receive. Any nearby transmitters (including LP analog stations) may cause it.

The pre-amp is not going to improve the performance of your antenna - it will only help you avoid losing the signals from your antenna over a long coax run. If it's at all practical, I would suggest taking your STB and a small TV somewhere in the general vicinity of your proposed antenna mounting location and connect the antenna to the STB with a short (25' or less) length of RG6 for testing purposes. Later, make your full cable run to the room where your HDTV is located. If you can pull in more stations with the test setup, then a pre-amp is warranted; otherwise not.

CEBII, mikeaco, oxothuk and TotallyPreWired thank you all for your thoughts on pre-amps the information should prove helpful. Is forum is really just and wonderful resource. I will be runnig some test this weekend.

Thank you again. :)

Well I have a 7775 with a CM4228 and if I don't use the preamp I can't get KUSA on a consistent basis. I don't currently get KCNC at all no matter what I do.

I sit on top of derby hill and still I am trying to clear another 50 feet of hill that is directly south of me. I did get a profile run by a guy (slips my mind sorry) that was running topgraphical maps.

I wish you the best of luck because it is all about location. I went and helped a friend in Greeley get his antenna installed which was the RS UHF antenna and he gets much better reception than I do. Argh......

My aaproach is that the less channels I have to amplify the better thus I choos not to amplify VHF signals which come in pretty strong in the Loveland area.

I thought I remembered that the amplification was affected by how many signals were actually coming into the amplifier.

Oh I also run the amplified signal through a diplexer into my satellite systems so I don't have to run a seperate splitter systems to all the TV's. I noticed very little performance difference when running straight to the receiver.


CEBII, mikeaco, oxothuk and TotallyPreWired thank you all for your thoughts on pre-amps the information should prove helpful. Is forum is really just and wonderful resource. I will be runnig some test this weekend.

Thank you again. :)

Hello all,

Just started reading this thread today and it would appear that some of you are able to get OTA HD in Boulder (I'm more impressed from the Lovelanders that are able to receive it). I'm on the east side of Boulder and antennaweb says this:


* green - uhf KTVD-DT 19.1 UPN DENVER CO Testing 170° 19.8 19
* green - uhf KDEN-DT 29.1 IND LONGMONT CO 62° 18.1 29
* blue - uhf KPXC-DT 43 i DENVER CO TBD 168° 23.7 43
* blue - uhf KWGN-DT 2.1 WB DENVER CO 171° 19.6 34
* violet - uhf KCEC-DT 51.1 UNI DENVER CO TBD 171° 19.6 51
* violet - uhf KDVR-DT 31.1 FOX DENVER CO 171° 19.8 32


does this list match the "real world?"

Also, I've seen some recommendations for a CM4228. Is that all I'd need, or is there something better out there?

Hello all,

Just started reading this thread today and it would appear that some of you are able to get OTA HD in Boulder (I'm more impressed from the Lovelanders that are able to receive it). I'm on the east side of Boulder and antennaweb says this:


* green - uhf KTVD-DT 19.1 UPN DENVER CO Testing 170° 19.8 19
* green - uhf KDEN-DT 29.1 IND LONGMONT CO 62° 18.1 29
* blue - uhf KPXC-DT 43 i DENVER CO TBD 168° 23.7 43
* blue - uhf KWGN-DT 2.1 WB DENVER CO 171° 19.6 34
* violet - uhf KCEC-DT 51.1 UNI DENVER CO TBD 171° 19.6 51
* violet - uhf KDVR-DT 31.1 FOX DENVER CO 171° 19.8 32


does this list match the "real world?"

Also, I've seen some recommendations for a CM4228. Is that all I'd need, or is there something better out there?
KTVD-DT, KCEC-DT, and KPXC-DT are not on the air at present, although there are rumors we may see KTVD-DT by the end of the year. KDEN-DT is a junk shopping channel.

You don't need a CM4228 to get KDVR-DT and KWGN-DT. A good indoor antenna like the Zenith Silver sensor will do just fine. And this week's Bronco game is on KDVR-DT.

The real question is whether ANY antenna (and the CM4228 is about as good as they get) will allow you to get the big three from Republic Plaza - CBS, NBC, and PBS-6. Reception for these channels is problematic for most of Boulder proper because we sit down below Davidson Mesa. My house is out to the NE of town where the view toware Denver goes along the back side of the mesa, so I am able to get the Republic stations (barely).

Location is critical, and the only way to know for sure is to try it.

For gakon:

Hey, gakon, when you have a moment, can you run the LOS profile from these coordinates to Republic and Lookout?

N 38.957615 W 105.12084

Thanks,
tk

N 38.957615 W 105.12084
These coordinates are nowhere near the location you have below your user name. Are they correct? If so, you and TotallyPreWired should get together, since you're less than 2 miles from him. The profiles from those coordinates are similar to his, although I don't think I ever created one to RP. Neither one looks great, but if TPW can get KMGH, anything is possible.

These coordinates are nowhere near the location you have below your user name. Are they correct? If so, you and TotallyPreWired should get together, since you're less than 2 miles from him.
No kidding! Central Denver? Ooopps.

Looks to be off Trout Creek road, closer to Divide. There does seem to be a road near these coordinates. Maybe it's a hideaway the little lady doesn't know about? :eek:

Greetings all. One of the posts above shows UPN "testing". That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all, perhaps UPN is on track to hit the rumored NLT end of year on the air. How about the rumored KMGH to Republic Plaza? Any half-truths, rumors, or out and out facts to share?

Off topic but worth sharing: I just spent an excellent week in Puerto Vallarta, however it was almost ruined by America West. You can read all about it at blogger.com http://awestnightmare.blogspot.com/

Greetings all. One of the posts above shows UPN "testing". That doesn't sound like a bad thing at all, perhaps UPN is on track to hit the rumored NLT end of year on the air. How about the rumored KMGH to Republic Plaza? Any half-truths, rumors, or out and out facts to share?

AwesomeFloyd, Rumor I heard from a reliable source is that KTVD should be transmitting something from RP in the next 2 weeks. Because of this I've been checking Channel 19 daily to see if I get a signal (usually in the afternoons) and so far nothing at all. If there has been any over-the-air testing going on, I have yet to see it.

As far as KMGH, your guess is as good as mine. I'm just glad for those of us who can receive their current meager signal that over the past few weeks they appear to have corrected the problem that scuttled the Broncos on MNF and then "Lost" a week or so after that.

Now a quick half-truth. This weeks "Westword" has an interesting article in it about an investigative report 9NEWS did a while back. While that is not necessarily pertinent here, what is is that it involves Jefferson County, so there are some references to the "Enormous" broadcasting tower that KUSA and 3 other stations are trying to construct on Lookout Mtn. Apparantly everything that goes on every day in any corner of JeffCo now comes back to the "Enormous" tower that LCG is trying to build. Bizarre.

These coordinates are nowhere near the location you have below your user name. Are they correct? If so, you and TotallyPreWired should get together, since you're less than 2 miles from him. The profiles from those coordinates are similar to his, although I don't think I ever created one to RP. Neither one looks great, but if TPW can get KMGH, anything is possible.

AND

No kidding! Central Denver? Ooopps.

Looks to be off Trout Creek road, closer to Divide. There does seem to be a road near these coordinates. Maybe it's a hideaway the little lady doesn't know about?


Thanks, gakon. I travel to Teller County often to visit my relatives who have a house there. I actually reside in Denver about five blocks east of Republic Plaza. I've found some of TPW's posts regarding his reception and observations very intriguing. So, over the last year, I've been experimenting with digital reception when I stay up in Teller Co. I also thought it might be interesting to compare his profile with ours.

On the analog side of things, reception at the mountain home from all of the Denver stations has always been very easy, except for KTVD. But, as the profiles you provided suggest, my experimentation with digital reception so far hasn't shown much promise. I will be trying more extensive, "big-gun" type measures over the coming weeks.

Thanks again!

Well I have a 7775 with a CM4228 and if I don't use the preamp I can't get KUSA on a consistent basis. I don't currently get KCNC at all no matter what I do.

I sit on top of derby hill and still I am trying to clear another 50 feet of hill that is directly south of me. I did get a profile run by a guy (slips my mind sorry) that was running topgraphical maps.

I wish you the best of luck because it is all about location. I went and helped a friend in Greeley get his antenna installed which was the RS UHF antenna and he gets much better reception than I do. Argh......

My aaproach is that the less channels I have to amplify the better thus I choos not to amplify VHF signals which come in pretty strong in the Loveland area.

I thought I remembered that the amplification was affected by how many signals were actually coming into the amplifier.

Oh I also run the amplified signal through a diplexer into my satellite systems so I don't have to run a seperate splitter systems to all the TV's. I noticed very little performance difference when running straight to the receiver.

It is the UHF, particularly the digital UHF channels that are tough. VHF on the front range is very strong, so don't amplify those signals. The UHF amplifier on a CM 7775 or 7777 will not pass those VHF signals, so it pretty much takes care of that issue.

I've got a 70" no-name VHF/UHF combo antenna in my attic pointed at Lookout Mountain just 10 miles away. It is now set up solely to be my analog signal antenna. VHF is very strong, even after splitting it 4 ways. No pre-amp needed. UHF is so poor that I have to use a pre-amp to get a clean signal on Fox 31 analog and channel 59. When I used this antenna for digital pickup from LM, I couldn't even lock Fox 31 digital and KWGN-DT w/o the pre-amp.

OTOH, w/ a better UHF antenna like my Winegard PR-8800, I can get a good lock on the digital broadcasts fromt the mountain w/o a pre-amp, but I still can't get a decent signal on analog 31 and 59. BTW, my coax runs are under 60 feet.

So the bottom line is that a pre-amp may help, hurt you, or do nothing at all for you. If you get all the channels you want w/o a pre-amp, don't buy one. If you want to try for some weak signal channels you can't lock, try a pre-amp. There is a good reason that antennaweb lists recommendations that include pre-amps for the harder to get channels. It is more than the length of your coax.

Has anyone on the west side of longmont had any luck getting CBS OTA? I had an indoor antenna in my attic and got a fairly week signal on fox and good signal on WB. Nothing else. I recently added an RCA 3022 to my attic. The signals for fox and WB are significantly improved. I also get (what I think is) Telemundo. However, I don't speak spanish so telemundo isn't terribly interesting. My real hope was that I'd be able to get CBS once I put a better antenna in the attic. However, I'm still stuck with just Fox and WB. Any suggestions?

Also, has anyone had any luck with Dish Network HD? I've heard mixed results and, according to the Comcast technician that was at my home on Friday, cable HD won't be in Longmont until next summer at the earliest. And when we do get it, he said it will only be the locals. No ESPN HD, Discovery, HBO HD, Showtime HD, etc. I'm starting to get fed up here since I was told that Longmont would have HD "soon" in 2004. Thanks.

I also get (what I think is) Telemundo.Telefutura - not that it matters.

I take it you haven't been able to get the other Republic Plaza stations either (NBC and PBS-6)? They are usually easier to bring in than CBS since they broadcast on a lower frequency.

Has anyone on the west side of longmont had any luck getting CBS OTA? I had an indoor antenna in my attic and got a fairly week signal on fox and good signal on WB. Nothing else. I recently added an RCA 3022 to my attic. The signals for fox and WB are significantly improved. I also get (what I think is) Telemundo. However, I don't speak spanish so telemundo isn't terribly interesting. My real hope was that I'd be able to get CBS once I put a better antenna in the attic. However, I'm still stuck with just Fox and WB. Any suggestions?

Also, has anyone had any luck with Dish Network HD? I've heard mixed results and, according to the Comcast technician that was at my home on Friday, cable HD won't be in Longmont until next summer at the earliest. And when we do get it, he said it will only be the locals. No ESPN HD, Discovery, HBO HD, Showtime HD, etc. I'm starting to get fed up here since I was told that Longmont would have HD "soon" in 2004. Thanks.

I live on the east side of longmont (Pace and 17th). I get all the rep. plaza
stations with my CM4228 antenna. If you want to discuss this further, call me
and we can talk. Leave a private message and we can exchange numbers.

Yesterday on both the Denver/Philly and Green Bay/ Cinncy games, the transmission
kept switching between HD and SD widescreen. This has happened
on every NFL game since they started HD last year. I counted
11 such transitions in the GB game, and 15 in the Denver game. I called Rick Wheeler
at FOX and he claimed to be ignorant of this. Later, he said he contacted FOX about this,
but they have ignored the problem, neither confirming or denying their culpability.

I have no way of knowing whether the problem is at a national level, or if
it is strictly a KDVR problem. Either way, I want FOX to at the very least explain
why this happens. Predictably, their attitude is that it is easier to ignore the screw up than to fix it. This works until several people complain, and only then will they do something about it.
Since I'm apparently the only one who has complained to KDVR, I'd encourage others
to call Rick Wheeler at KDVR, 303 595 3131 and ask them to fix it.

[QUOTE=roller11]Yesterday on both the Denver/Philly and Green Bay/ Cinncy games, the transmission
kept switching between HD and SD widescreen. This has happened
on every NFL game since they started HD last year. I counted
11 such transitions in the GB game, and 15 in the Denver game. I called Rick Wheeler
at FOX and he claimed to be ignorant of this. Later, he said he contacted FOX about this,
but they have ignored the problem, neither confirming or denying their culpability.
QUOTE]

I believe what you are seeing has little to do with a "switch" in their broadcast. They are using a combination of HD cameras and old stock NTSC cameras. This is one of the growing pains of the HD transition. I remember when CBS began to offer 3 games a week in HD, at least 1/3 of the broadcast was upconverted from NTSC. The same was the case with the first season of MNF on ABC. It was so bad that I wasn't terribly disappointed when they nixed MNF in HD the next season (that and the constant dropouts from their weak transmition).

The FOX transition to HD (6 or 7 games every sunday) is very expensive. They will continue to mingle HD and NTSC (SD if you prefer) until they have cap exed additional HD cams or their NTSC products are all broken and unrepairable.

-Matt

There is one camera they use - kind of the "coaches camera", a view from the top of the stadium, that they used to show all players on the field, that is SD. When they switch to that camera it is only 4X3. Other than that both games looked very good to me.

And yes, I was paying attention... ;)

Has anyone on the west side of longmont had any luck getting CBS OTA? I had an indoor antenna in my attic and got a fairly week signal on fox and good signal on WB. Nothing else. I recently added an RCA 3022 to my attic. The signals for fox and WB are significantly improved. I also get (what I think is) Telemundo. However, I don't speak spanish so telemundo isn't terribly interesting. My real hope was that I'd be able to get CBS once I put a better antenna in the attic. However, I'm still stuck with just Fox and WB. Any suggestions?


I get CBS OTA, I'm over by the Safeway on Hover and 17th. You are going to have to put your antenna outside if you want any chance of CBS. Get it up as high as you can and try any location that looks like it has line of sight to RP. I also use a RS amp. No amp = no signals from RP stations for me.

Has anyone on the west side of longmont had any luck getting CBS OTA?

I'm kind of on the South side, near Pike and 287. I was finally able to pull in ch. 4 and ch. 9 yesterday, and of course, ch. 2 and ch. 31 are strong. But unfortunately, ch. 6 is still a little too weak for me to lock on.

I ended up having to use a 15-foot mast on the peak of my roof. At 10 feet, I only got ch. 2 and ch. 31, at 11 feet, I locked onto ch. 9, and when I put it at 15 feet, ch. 4 locked on. I also had to use a variable gain antenna amp. But I had to carefully adjust the gain. Too little gain = no lock and too much gain = no lock. It was very touchy!

I'll probably try again next weekend to get channel 6.

I believe what you are seeing has little to do with a "switch" in their broadcast. They are using a combination of HD cameras and old stock NTSC cameras.
-Matt

No, that's not it. As I've reported repeatedly, this is NOT a camera thing.
It happens randomly, typically when the main camera is on. For example,
a HD to SD switch happened ten seconds before Mike Anderson went in for
the first touchdown. Twenty seconds later, the inevitable SD to HD switch occured.
It happened again right in the middle of a running play when the runner was being
forced out of bounds on the right sideline. The time shown on the clock was
10:11 of the first period.

Since ppl in this forum seem incapable of distinguishing SD from HD, do this:
listen to the rear speakers only of your DD 5.1, and turn the volume up
all the way. Precisely coincident
with the switch to SD, the announcers voices are heard in the rear speakers.
The volume is less than in the front speakers, but it's audible. i.e. there is a 1 to 1 relationship with this audio 'bleed over' and being in SD widescreen mode.

...I'm starting to get fed up here since I was told that Longmont would have HD "soon" in 2004.

Don't feel bad, in 2004 there was going to be OTA DTV in Denver "soon" too! :D

There is one camera they use - kind of the "coaches camera", a view from the top of the stadium, that they used to show all players on the field, that is SD. When they switch to that camera it is only 4X3. Other than that both games looked very good to me.

And yes, I was paying attention... ;)

It amazes me that you can't tell SD widescreen from HD, even when you are looking for it.

It amazes me that you can't tell SD widescreen from HD, even when you are looking for it.


Just a point of reference here -- you seem to be the ONLY one who is seeing this. I watch football on Fox every Sunday and have never noticed what you are seeing, nor has anyone else here...