Denver, CO - OTA [Text View] - Page 57

bsdimp

01-22-06, 12:31 PM

bsdimp,

Check out the Denver DTV Info site. It has all the info on channel assignments.

Thanks. I'm not able to get any of the denver digital stations, but I am able to pick up DT-29 (KDEN ch 25 shopping network), DT-21 (KFCT 22-1) and DT-30 (ch 5-1, 5-2 KGWN). I'm guessing that the big game will be on later....

Looks like 22-1 is Denver 31 rebroadcast from Ft Collins. 5-1 and 5-2 appear to be a CBS station. I'm guessing out of Fort Collins. I can see Ft Collins from my roof to the north, but just the spine of gunbarrel ridge looking south.

It took me a while to realize that DT-xx maps one-to-one and the channel label was unrelated and pulled from the signal.

mknoebel

01-22-06, 12:42 PM

KGWN is the CBS station out of Cheyenne. They send out a strong signal, but their picture tends to have some pixelation at times. Hopefully not today!

HDJello

01-22-06, 12:52 PM

I've been cruising this forum to understand why KCNC-DT (4.1) is so difficult to receive. Since the thread(s) are so long, it's difficult to figure out the most current information. I'm confused as to why I can bring in KUSA-DT (9.1), and KMGH (7.1, lately) with a signal strength of 60-70 (weather dependent), but 0-20 from KCNC. It's my understanding that KCNC is broadcasting a similar signal strength as KUSA from the same place (Republic Plaza)...

Can someone summarize what the issue is with KCNC?

I appreciate the help!
The short answer is that KUSA-DT is on UHF Channel 18, KMGH-DT is on UHF Channel 17, KRMA-DT is on UHF Channel 16, but KCNC-DT is on UHF Channel 35, and for reasons beyond the scope of this short answer, the higher UHF frequencies do not propogate as well as the lower UHF frequencies, particularly at the ultra-low-power the "temporary" RP transmitters are using. You can probably get KDVR-DT on UHF 32, and KWGN-DT on UHF 34, which are in similar frequency ranges to KCNC-DT, but they are broadcasting at much higher (but still not full power) from facilities on Lookout Mountain.

don_ferraro

01-22-06, 01:55 PM

TotallyPreWired

01-22-06, 02:11 PM

I'm not convinced that I should be getting reception from KCNC (since many others don't either), I was just curious what the issue is. I suspected that it may be due to the frequency diffence and the physics behind it. (This was confirmed by HDJello)

Don,
There are also other factors to consider. One is this. (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=43207&rotate=0.00&p0=0.809&p10=0.791&p20=0.788&p30=0.796&p40=0.806&p50=0.822&p60=0.842&p70=0.860&p80=0.861&p90=0.839&p100=0.790&p110=0.710&p120=0.618&p130=0.568&p140=0.561&p150=0.588&p160=0.668&p170=0.789&p180=0.899&p190=0.973&p200=1.000&p210=0.980&p220=0.917&p230=0.823&p240=0.721&p250=0.632&p260=0.580&p270=0.607&p280=0.685&p290=0.770&p300=0.836&p310=0.868&p320=0.876&p330=0.870&p340=0.854&p350=0.832&p360=0.809&) I'm not sure where Windsor is, but if it's SE of RP, this plot may indicate part of the problem.
....jc

rgerrans

01-22-06, 02:31 PM

I'm not convinced that I should be getting reception from KCNC (since many others don't either), I was just curious what the issue is. I suspected that it may be due to the frequency diffence and the physics behind it. (This was confirmed by HDJello)

<snip>

KCNC-DT 35 - 0-20 (highly variable)

I'm getting similar readings this morning from Stapleton after having it running in solid 60's & 70's all week, so it might be an issue with KCNC's transmitter. Is anyone else having prolems it this morning (just when I thought I was finally going to get to watch the Bronco's in HD after having antenna issues last week)?

sunshinedawg

01-22-06, 06:37 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

Scott Pro

01-22-06, 06:41 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

Yes, I did. Everytime I threw something at the screen, it would break up.

Phil T

01-22-06, 06:42 PM

The channel 4 OTA digital signal was fine here. The Broncos had a few breakdowns........

mknoebel

01-22-06, 06:49 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

Which channel?

I watched on the LA station on *D and it looked good without any break ups.

JMartinko

01-22-06, 08:36 PM

Which channel?

I watched on the LA station on *D and it looked good without any break ups.
I watched from the stands and the "HD" was terrific, but the Bronco breakdowns (especially on third downs) were very apparent. Don't think HD would even have been required to see that fiasco. Oh well, there will always be next year.

CEB II

01-22-06, 08:54 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

No HD reception problems at all during the game. Certainly the Bronco's defense wasn't stopping the signal, they didn't stop anything all day. Also couldn't be the Bronco's offensive line, since they couldn't block anything.

CEB II

01-22-06, 09:04 PM

I'm not convinced that I should be getting reception from KCNC (since many others don't either), I was just curious what the issue is. I suspected that it may be due to the frequency diffence and the physics behind it. (This was confirmed by HDJello)

I get the following stations (pointed about 190)
KUSA-DT 16 - 65-75
KMGH-DT 17 - 60-70
KRMA-DT 18 - 45-55
KDVR-DT 32 - 55-60 (75-85 when pointed to 205)
KWGN-DT 34 - 65-70
KCNC-DT 35 - 0-20 (highly variable)
KBDI-DT 38 - 85-95
KWHD-DT 46 - 60-70
KFCT-DT 21 - 60-70 (95-100 when pointed to 035)

Located in Windsor, directly easy(~1mi) of the Larimer county fairgrounds
40.439 -104.959

HR10-250
CM 4228 (10ft AGL temporary on tripod for testing)
CM 7775 Preamp

Thanks HDJello for the info.

If you are located where I think you are, you don't have LOS to RP, so you are getting some bounced and/or bent signals. The higher frequency signals (e.g., channel 35) have a shorter wavelength and don't bounce and bend as well as the lower frequency signals. Add that to TPW's radiation diagram factor and the fact that the KCNC's antenna is slightly lower in elevation than are KUSA and KRMA, and you have most of the reasons why you have lower signal strength on your reception of KCNC. Have you tried pointing your antenna w/ some up-angle (10 to 20 degrees) on it? That sometimes helps in your situation.

DrrD

01-22-06, 09:18 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

Yep, my signal went down to the 40's, everything else from RP was in the low 60's.

don_ferraro

01-22-06, 09:32 PM

When I turn the preamp off, I don't get any signal at all for KCNC 35. I presume this has to do with the long run of rg6 from the antenna to the receiver. (~120ft)

don_ferraro

01-22-06, 09:40 PM

If you are located where I think you are, you don't have LOS to RP, so you are getting some bounced and/or bent signals. The higher frequency signals (e.g., channel 35) have a shorter wavelength and don't bounce and bend as well as the lower frequency signals. Add that to TPW's radiation diagram factor and the fact that the KCNC's antenna is slightly lower in elevation than are KUSA and KRMA, and you have most of the reasons why you have lower signal strength on your reception of KCNC. Have you tried pointing your antenna w/ some up-angle (10 to 20 degrees) on it? That sometimes helps in your situation.

I'm not sure that I actually have line of site to RP. Every time I get on the roof with my telescope, there's too much haze to see that far. I hope some day the antennas get back up transmitting on one of the hills as I do have line of sight to them.. I'll try to tilt the antenna and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the help.

TotallyPreWired

01-22-06, 09:42 PM

When I turn the preamp off, I don't get any signal at all for KCNC 35. I presume this has to do with the long run of rg6 from the antenna to the receiver. (~120ft)
Don,
A preamp usually can't just be 'turned off'. You need to remove both the amplifier(closest to the antenna) and the power insertion device(inside your house). If either one remains connected, you probably won't get squat.
....jc

longrider

01-22-06, 11:30 PM

I have an interesting situation, since my attic antenna left by the previous homeowner is unmovable and seriously misaimed (I done even know how they got it in the attic unless it was put up while the house was being built) I put together a test setup of a cheap Rat Shack UHF yagi on a 10 ft mast using a CM3041 preamp. I understand why I cant get 4, but 6 went from a 13 to 20 (no lock) 7 went from a 18 to 27 (locks but not watchable) and 9 went from a 16 to 52! (very watchable) THis was promising enough I am going to go forward with a good setup - CM4228 antenna, 7777 preamp on a 30 ft mast but I am confused why 9 is so much stronger than 6 or 7 At least the rush is off, I watched todays game on CBS2 from LA (thanks D*) and as for the Super bowl, who cares now...

CEB II

01-23-06, 12:12 AM

bsdimp

01-23-06, 12:16 AM

KGWN is the CBS station out of Cheyenne. They send out a strong signal, but their picture tends to have some pixelation at times. Hopefully not today!

Today it was totally pixelated. Or as my girlfriend's 12 year old said "We have legos football today"

I also watched the Panthers Seahawks game on 22-1 (KFCT) and it was perfect.

Now, to try to get the Denver stations again...

It surprised me how well these signals came in when Denver's couldn't be found...

bsdimp

01-23-06, 12:22 AM

With everybody fighting for every last digit in reception strength, your receiver is key.

I had a similar experience today. My Mitsubishi WD-62627's receiver did OK on channel 22-1 I was picking up from Ft Collins here in Niwot. The Tivo HD-250 did a fabulous job of pulling 22-1 in. It was able to do much more with the weak signal than the tuner in the TV that I thought might be better.

kucharsk

01-23-06, 01:11 AM

Most folks find 9-1 to be their strongest DTV signal. However, since KMGH moved to RP last week, many are finding 7-1 to be as strong or stronger than 9-1. Why is anybody's guess.Just as another data point, my DTV signals here (for RP) are:

KMGH-DT
KUSA-DT
KRMA-DT
KCNC-DT

Overall, my strongest signal is KWGN-DT, and my weakest KDVR-DT.

(Not counting KBDI-DT, which has a signal level of 0 here.)

Symbios

01-23-06, 02:32 AM

I did a rescan this morning hoping that maybe, just maybe, KCNC would pop up. No luck with that (It was probably best that I didn't see that game in HD anyway), but KMGH popped up, and then channel 17 remapped to 7-1 and 7-2. And the program info for them loaded. I was shocked, I couldn't believe I even got that much from them. I think If I go up and tweak my antenna tomorrow, I might just get a picture.

That would be truely amazing if I could see Lost in HD just once...

TheBert

01-23-06, 12:05 PM

I had a lot of break ups today during the game. I almost never see this during CSI and other shows. Anybody else have this issue today?

I had the same thing, I have always had no problem with KCNC. the 921 is pulling them in at 60-66, just enough to lock, I am now only able to receive KMGH in the evenings only. I have a 60-66 with them also with no lock. I spent the weekend trying to move the antenna an inch at a time, and two different pre-amps which both made it worse. Both of my next door neighbors are having no problem with KCNC or KMGH. They also have 942 receivers. This sucks.

JMartinko

01-23-06, 01:54 PM

I had the same thing, I have always had no problem with KCNC. the 921 is pulling them in at 60-66, just enough to lock, I am now only able to receive KMGH in the evenings only. I have a 60-66 with them also with no lock. I spent the weekend trying to move the antenna an inch at a time, and two different pre-amps which both made it worse. Both of my next door neighbors are having no problem with KCNC or KMGH. They also have 942 receivers. This sucks.
I feel your pain on this one. I get all of the RP stations pretty strong here (never a breakup) with an antenna mounted on a pole lashed to my back patio deck, and my neighbor has tried a similar antenna in two locations, one at ground level like mine and another on the top of his roof, much higher than mine. He can't get a sniff of KCNC on either one, and I don't think he has found KMGwhateve either. He does get KRMA and KUSA though. it just bears out the point this is all a real hit and miss proposition.

oxothuk

01-23-06, 02:45 PM

It just bears out the point this is all a real hit and miss proposition.which another 2000 feet of elevation and 20db of power increase (i.e., Lookout Mountain) would make moot for residents of the Northern Front Range.

There would still be a few folks fiddling around to optimize there signal, but they would be people living in Limon or Fort Morgan.

pkeegan

01-23-06, 02:55 PM

Any new info on UPN? I thought they planned to be back up last week.

GWWaterBufalo

01-23-06, 03:03 PM

KCNC took hours of antenna reconfiguration for me to finally lock. What I finally did that ultimately worked was to get rid of the short vertical mast in my attic, put 2 horizontal pieces of fishing line (non-metallic) across my roof joists about 3 feet off the attic floor (spaced 4 feet apart), and placed my 6 foot Yagi across the 2 strands of fishing line. This allowed me to easily reposition my antenna. (On the mast, I couldn't change the angle much without running into the joists)

I came close to locking once I had the best angle, and almost gave up again, but then I tried moving the northward horizontal line a couple inches higher than it's counterpart so that my antenna sloped slightly upward as it faced toward downtown. The combination of angle AND slope finally provided a lock. And, once I got the angle and slope configured for KCNC all other RP stations got better -- additionally, the Lookout mountain stations continued to lock with only a slight degradation in strength.

Hope this helps someone else....

BobLikesHDTV

01-23-06, 05:53 PM

KCNC took hours of antenna reconfiguration for me to finally lock. What I finally did that ultimately worked was to get rid of the short vertical mast in my attic, put 2 horizontal pieces of fishing line (non-metallic) across my roof joists about 3 feet off the attic floor (spaced 4 feet apart), and placed my 6 foot Yagi across the 2 strands of fishing line. This allowed me to easily reposition my antenna. (On the mast, I couldn't change the angle much without running into the joists).

Reminds me of a shorwave antenna I once ran in my attic. 25 meters of wire = 25 meter band. It was an amazing sight, but I got the best reception ever.

Frankly, nobody along the Denver Metro front range should have to do this garbage to get a TV signal.

GWWaterBufalo

01-23-06, 06:59 PM

Frankly, nobody along the Denver Metro front range should have to do this garbage to get a TV signal.

I couldn't agree more! But, until we have all our digital broadcasts coming from 1 location/geographic area, and we have to try to receive signals (weak signals to-boot) from all different directions, this is what we end up going through...

kucharsk

01-24-06, 04:16 AM

kcosby

01-24-06, 11:53 AM

It's going to be interesting to see how this works.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - CBS Corp (NYSE:CBSA - news) and Time Warner Inc.'s (NYSE:TWX - news) Warner Brothers television network on Tuesday said they will close their respective UPN and WB networks and jointly launch the CW network.

ADVERTISEMENT

The network will be a 50-50 joint venture between the two companies.

pkeegan

01-24-06, 11:57 AM

I just saw where UPN and the WB announced that they will merge into a single network. I wonder how this will affect Denver OTA with KWGN and KTVD.
:confused:

whtevr77

01-24-06, 12:07 PM

Here's a link to the article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060124/ap_on_en_tv/tv_network

dr_mal

01-24-06, 12:20 PM

Based on that article (and the corresponding AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6986377#post6986377)), Tribune will own the CW affiliate in Denver. They currently own KWGN, so I'd assume that KWGN will become the CW affiliate, using their medium-power Lookout digital transmitter.

Gannett can't be too happy - they just bought a local station with no network affiliation anymore, that is scheduled to stop operations in September - only a few months after the expected Gannett ownership would've been approved.

I predict Gannett drops KTVD like a hot potato and KTVD doesn't bother fixing their Republic transmitter - with an end-of-life in less than 8 months, it makes zero sense to spend money on infrastructure at this point.

oxothuk

01-24-06, 12:31 PM

From Louisville, KWHD-DT (53-1) is by far my strongest signal.

Are they full power or just much higher power than the "demonstration" transmitters atop RP?

(For that matter, I receive them at a higher signal level than KWGN-DT, which is considerably closer. KDVR-DT is by far my weakest signal...)Don't know if they are using their full capability, but KWHD-DT is licensed for 300kw, which is a lot higher than any of the RP stations and similar to the Lookout digital stations.

When you say the KWHD-DT signal is stronger than KWGN-DT, is that based on using the best antenna orientations for each? I know that for me the orientations for RP and KWHD are nearly very close, whereas the orientation to Lookout is about 35 degrees further west.

oxothuk

01-24-06, 12:38 PM

I predict Gannett drops KTVD like a hot potato and KTVD doesn't bother fixing their Republic transmitter - with an end-of-life in less than 8 months, it makes zero sense to spend money on infrastructure at this point.KTVD will lose their network affiliation, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will go off the air. Not that I am typical, but I never watched any of their UPN shows to begin with. I always thought of them as an independent, maybe they can continue that way. Certainly no rush to go HD, though.

I have to believe the RP transmitter is a sunk cost at this point. I doubt they need a major investment to fix the glitches, but their engineers may have higher priorities right now (like resume-writing).

DrrD

01-24-06, 12:53 PM

FYI:

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/24/news/companies/cbs_warner/index.htm?cnn=yes

Symbios

01-24-06, 02:12 PM

What about all of the programming KTVD airs during the day, and a over night. Where does that come from? And what's going to happen to it after this?

ADent

01-24-06, 02:40 PM

What about all of the programming KTVD airs during the day, and a over night. Where does that come from? And what's going to happen to it after this?

That won't change as long as KTVD keeps paying for it. But w/o a network affiliation they suddenly look more like Ch 53 than Ch 2.

CEB II

01-24-06, 02:53 PM

From Louisville, KWHD-DT (53-1) is by far my strongest signal.

Are they full power or just much higher power than the "demonstration" transmitters atop RP?

(For that matter, I receive them at a higher signal level than KWGN-DT, which is considerably closer. KDVR-DT is by far my weakest signal...)

They went to their full authorized power, 300 kw, last fall (detailed in a post I made to this thread at the time). I haven't been in contact w/ them lately, but their signal has dropped off on some days and is in the mid-80s on my Dish 811 on others. When their signal is up, they are stronger than my best KWGN signal and equal to my best KDVR signal, even though they are 37 miles off and KWGN is a mere 10 miles away (w/ antennas pointed at the signal sources).

oxothuk

01-24-06, 02:57 PM

That won't change as long as KTVD keeps paying for it. But w/o a network affiliation they suddenly look more like Ch 53 than Ch 2.But without the religious baggage that turns off a lot of users.

IIRC, KTVD did not have any network affiliation when I moved here 15 years ago. - how long has UPN been in existence as a network?

And they do still have the Rockies games, which are a draw for some folks.

Anyone care to speculate how the merger might affect plans for LCG2, since KTVD is one of their members?

UPDATE: I looked at the Wikipedia articles on UPN and KTVD, and found that (a) UPN only came into existence in 1995 and (b) that the early history of KTVD was pretty marginal and did in many ways mirror KWHD in terms of content. Plus, broadcasting is a much tougher industry today than it was 15 years ago.

Symbios

01-24-06, 03:10 PM

I don't think this will affect plans for LCG2. KTVD is going to need that digital transmitter if they still want to be on the air in '09, so I don't see why anything would change.

gkanders

01-24-06, 05:26 PM

I have an idea: channel 19 DT: OTAltitude :)

Phil T

01-24-06, 06:06 PM

or OTAHDNet

CEB II

01-24-06, 06:16 PM

I have an idea: channel 19 DT: OTAltitude :)

That actually has business merit. You should fly it by Altitude and Gannett.

dr_mal

01-24-06, 06:21 PM

That actually has business merit. You should fly it by Altitude and Gannett.
I'm sure Gannett would be interested. Exclusive home of Nuggets and Avalanche games? That would seem to make KTVD much more appealing.

Altitude, however, gets money from Comcast for carriage of Altitude on Comcast. If Altitude was suddenly available OTA for free, Comcast would not be willing to pay Altitude as much. I suppose the business case for Altitude is to charge Gannett at least as much as Comcast would be no longer willing to pay.

paintit77

01-24-06, 07:39 PM

Well, I just found this forum in the last several weeks. You have no clue what I was doing prior to that.

I'm as connected as anybody to the politics in Jeffco and resent the statement about lawyers. You've proven nothing with your bizzare statement. If you have unambiguous evidence, produce it.

Granted lawyers file the motions and lawsuits, but the impetus comes from the same anti-development groups that have fought every zoning variance request in the county for the last 24 years I've been here. I'm not the greatest fan of unfettered growth, thinking it must pay its own way rather than demanding services from taxpayers for every new development (roads, schools, infrastructure). But the anti-development people have this one profoundly wrong.

On the other hand, why should a handful of corporations, who essentially control most of the media in this country, be able to change everybody's lives simply to boost their own profits! People not only have a right to question it, but a responsibility-- especially when it involves the use of the airwaves and lands that we, the public, own. Those microwaves are baking our brains, after all. We shouldn't add to the mix if we can avoid it. In this case, we cannot avoid it. It's a done deal. And resistance is futile. (I almost sound like the Borg).

But don't slam them and their lawyers out of hand like that. If you are capable of anything other than insults, then educate them! Persuade them! And when offering prejudices like you did above, offer a bit of evidence for it.

Here is the problem with your argument besides everyone being pissed off at the idiots who are trying to stop the tower. The people of CARE CHOSE TO LIVE NEAR THE PROPOSED TOWER AND CHOSE TO LIVE NEAR THE EXISTING TOWERS. Their is no arguing, questioning, or resisting. Its about choice. They choose to hire lawyers and stop this. The other thing you completely fail to realize is that this is now a safety concern for the other 3 million people who are dependent on Communication for our first responders, National Guard and Police. They will be needing the old analog signals to protect us. As far as I am concerned the people of SCARE are a bunch of selfish, greedy Nazis who don't deserve to live in Colorado. I would like to see them forced from their homes and moved permanently to someplace nice, like New Orleans.

GWWaterBufalo

01-24-06, 07:54 PM

I was so excited when I read that KMGH was live from RP now and that everyone seemed able to pick it up. So, I rushed home and entered 17 into my trusty tuner and----no lock... no picture... no audio... Aaaaagh!!!

My receiver (Samsung SIR3whatever) was showing '4 bars' of signal, unfortunately I need at least 5 to get a lock. My current setup is already 'optimized' for both RP (getting 4, 6, 9) and Lookout (getting 2, 31) OTA DTV. If I aim my antenna any further toward RP I loose the Lookout stations altogether.

So, do I have any options left? If I break-down and upgrade to an SIR4whatever with QAM and plug my Comcast internet cable into that for my HDTV, how long would that last before Comcast changes formats from QAM to something else???

Any suggestions/input would be appreciated.

TV should not be this difficult...

oxothuk

01-24-06, 08:08 PM

Any suggestions/input would be appreciated.Use two antennas, one pointed toward Lookout and the other toward RP, with an A/B switch to toggle between them. Then perhaps you can optimize the RP antenna to get KMGH.

But if you already have Comcast basic cable and plan to keep it, getting a QAM tuner is probably the easiest thing to do. I don't think the cable companies will be replacing QAM anytime real soon.

kucharsk

01-24-06, 09:57 PM

When you say the KWHD-DT signal is stronger than KWGN-DT, is that based on using the best antenna orientations for each? I know that for me the orientations for RP and KWHD are nearly very close, whereas the orientation to Lookout is about 35 degrees further west.Yagi pointed directly at RP from Louisville, so KWGN actually comes in pretty well for the antenna pointed almost 180º the other way, but my KDVR-DT signal from Lookout sucks.

Right now I have my VHF/UHF antenna split such that UHF signals come from the yagi pointed at RP and VHF signals from my VHF/UHF antenna pointed at Lookout.

SOMEDAY I hope to go back to needing only one antenna in the attic, but I'm not expecting that to happen anytime before the next Broncos Super Bowl victory. :D

dbldare

01-24-06, 10:04 PM

SOMEDAY I hope to go back to needing only one antenna in the attic, but I'm not expecting that to happen anytime before the next Broncos Super Bowl victory. :D

Sounds like a Snickers commercial..... "Not going anywhere for a while?".... :p

Go Avs.... ;)

GWWaterBufalo

01-25-06, 01:42 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. Little did I know when I had my house built that I should have had the crew install TWO coaxial lines for TWO roof antennas. Big mistake. LOL. Thanks sCARE! (not LOL about that)

Does anyone know if KMGH is currently broadcasting the strongest signal that they can under their current licensure? Seems quite a bit weaker than even PBS. If they could just crank out a little bit more signal, I wouldn't need 2 freakin antennas...

oxothuk

01-25-06, 08:00 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. Little did I know when I had my house built that I should have had the crew install TWO coaxial lines for TWO roof antennas.Where are your located? It might be worth trying to use an indoor antenna like the Silver Sensor placed near your set to pick up KDVR and KWGN. If that works, then the single coax line can be used for your roof-mounted antenna aimed at RP.

dd2

01-25-06, 08:36 AM

But if you already have Comcast basic cable and plan to keep it, getting a QAM tuner is probably the easiest thing to do. I don't think the cable companies will be replacing QAM anytime real soon.

I'm curious about this comment and hope you can expand on it. Are you saying that a QAM tuner could pull HD off a basic Comcast cable feed (without buying their HD packages)?

I'm in an area where OTA reception is a challenge, and if that is true it will be a great solution, as I have a QAM tuner in my PC....

Jazzsax

01-25-06, 09:08 AM

An update on my signal for 4.1 and 7.1... I moved my attic installed DB4 to the outside 2nd floor and (duh!) I get a stronger signal, especially on the 4.1, which I was getting 0-20%, I now get a steady 45% with occasional 63% strength. 7.1 now comes in at 77% (was 63%). All the other stations are either the same or up a bit. I don't have LOS to Republic, so I wasn't positive that moving it anywhere would have improved it, but it did.

I wanted to get this done because I'm getting delivery of a new 60" SXRD today :D I can actually retire my DTC-100 as my main living room OTA HD receiver.

oxothuk

01-25-06, 09:11 AM

I'm curious about this comment and hope you can expand on it. Are you saying that a QAM tuner could pull HD off a basic Comcast cable feed (without buying their HD packages)?

I'm in an area where OTA reception is a challenge, and if that is true it will be a great solution, as I have a QAM tuner in my PC....For the local broadcast HD channels, yes, a QAM tuner should work. For the cable-only channels (ESPN-HD, Discovery HD, etc.) then no, because those channels are encrypted.

Check over in the Denver Comcast forum for more help on this approach.

mrdobolina

01-25-06, 12:12 PM

I'm not a technical guy...well, as far as OTA HDTV goes, but I would just like to share some of the problems and solutions that I have discovered with my setup for receiving HD content. I am a D* subscriber, and moved into my house near 64th and Wads in Arvada during the summer of 2004. At that time, I had D* install a dish, an OTA antenna, and wire my house for all of my receivers. Everything was going through the multiswitch, with the OTA signal diplexed into a sat cable, and then split out before going into my Hughes DirecTv HD receiver(sorry, I don't know the model).

Anyway, I was never able to receive KMGH, and sometimes had issues with KCNC...but other than that, I had no problems receiving any of the other OTA stations. Last week, when everyone was beaming that they could now receive KMGH, I was getting frustrated because I still could not. So I started fiddling around back there, first trying an inline amp to boost the signal. No luck. Then I tried a new diplexer. Still nothing. Eventually I became frustrated, pulled out some "rabbit ears" and plugged them into my receiver. Voila!! I was now receiving all of the OTA HD stations at a higher signal strength than ever before! And all it took was an indoor set of rabbit ears.

Moral of the story: Diplexers suck!

dbldare

01-25-06, 01:06 PM

Voila!! I was now receiving all of the OTA HD stations at a higher signal strength than ever before! And all it took was an indoor set of rabbit ears.

Lucky Bas***d!! :cool:

Jetlag

01-25-06, 01:13 PM

What type of OTA antenna did D* install? A Terk?

bunkers

01-25-06, 01:14 PM

I'm wondering if you weren't too close for the antenna you were using, seeing how the rabbit ears worked better for you. But you attribute it to the diplexors? ... hmm.

santellavision

01-25-06, 02:46 PM

Pro-Tower letter in RMN.

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/letters/article/0,2777,DRMN_23966_4412658,00.html

pkeegan

01-25-06, 03:02 PM

mrdobolina

01-25-06, 03:36 PM

Like I said...I'm not too technically minded when it comes to this stuff. I could be "too close" for a rooftop antenna to work?

Yeah, perhaps it wasn't the diplexor, but when I eliminated the diplexor and went directly into an antenna, it fixed it. Either way, I'm happy now!

I am not sure which antenna D* set me up with. It's a perfect "T"....no extra fins or anything. Probably a Terk. But I think my "rabbit ears" are Terk too.

rgerrans

01-25-06, 03:58 PM

Still nothing. Eventually I became frustrated, pulled out some "rabbit ears" and plugged them into my receiver. Voila!! I was now receiving all of the OTA HD stations at a higher signal strength than ever before! And all it took was an indoor set of rabbit ears.

Moral of the story: Diplexers suck!

I had a similar experience with a brand new setup. After buying the Terk TV44 and tipping the satellite tech an extra $25 bucks to add it to the dish, I could barely get most of the RAP feeds (I live in Stapleton and the dish is mounted on my roof). I then went back to the store and bought one of each of all the internal antennas and tried them all and was able to get the Terk HHDTVIantenna to pick-up all the RAP feeds with signal strengths in the 60's and 70's with the occasional +80 spike. So now I have a $70 antenna that I tipped a guy an extra $25 for installation sitting unused on the top of my roof. Though it does pickup the Lookout Mountain feeds better then my indoor, I just haven't been able to find a combiner that works with both feeds so have it disconnected for now. I guesss if they eventually get the tower built, I'll be all set.

donyoop

01-25-06, 09:38 PM

KTVD will lose their network affiliation, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will go off the air. Not that I am typical, but I never watched any of their UPN shows to begin with. I always thought of them as an independent, maybe they can continue that way. Certainly no rush to go HD, though.

I have to believe the RP transmitter is a sunk cost at this point. I doubt they need a major investment to fix the glitches, but their engineers may have higher priorities right now (like resume-writing).

I agree. The channel assignment by itself is worth a lot more than UPN affiliation. How could Gannett make the most money with the bandwidth. Shopping channel?

Don

JMartinko

01-25-06, 10:08 PM

I agree. The channel assignment by itself is worth a lot more than UPN affiliation. How could Gannett make the most money with the bandwidth. Shopping channel?

Don
That or a 'religious' channel. Maybe a shopping channel for religious items?
:(

dr_mal

01-26-06, 12:14 AM

From a viewer point of view, I'd love to see KTVD become an OTA version of Altitude. Maybe if Gannett sold KTVD to Kroenke?

kucharsk

01-26-06, 01:48 AM

That or a 'religious' channel. Maybe a shopping channel for religious items?
:(How about they restore full HD bandwidth to KUSA-DT and use 19-1 for Weather "Minus"?

toadjunior

01-26-06, 03:01 PM

From a viewer point of view, I'd love to see KTVD become an OTA version of Altitude. Maybe if Gannett sold KTVD to Kroenke?

This would most definitely be the best thing for us viewers that enjoy watching hockey, and basketball.

Given that it is best for us viewers. That means there is not a chance in hell of it happening.

LXIX

01-26-06, 03:04 PM

If Altitude were wise, they would look into acquiring the KTVD broadcast rights and facilities or offer its programming to Gannett for a sizable fee. The money collected from Comcast for the right to carry Altitude pails in comparison to the money they could collect as a local broadcaster.

Not to mention the immediate increase in viewers Altitude would gain (15%-20% of the front range does not subscribe to cable). There is absolutely no loss to Altitude if they become the core of the KTVD broadcast. If you think about it, this would create the ultimate synergy for what Kronke is trying to do with Altitude; sports and ENTERTAINMENT. They would have access to syndication contracts that KTVD signed years ago.

I like this idea a lot.

-Matt

LXIX

01-26-06, 04:51 PM

I have just sent an e-mail to every Altitude address that I could get from their web site. I think that this UPN/WB merger could be a bigger opportunity for Altitude than we have thought.

What if Altitude became a regional broadcast affiliate? Think about this. Cities in New Mexico, Kansas, Wyoming, Nebraska, S and N Dakota, Idaho, Utah, Nevada and any other Mountain state have lost one affiliate. Altitude could offer their programming and create another potential superstation! This is how WGN and TBS got their start, by offering their stations to local cable co. to give them access to the Bulls, Cubs, Hawks and Braves. Now all of these teams (minus the Hawks) have huge national followings.

By going the broadcast TV route, Altitude would automatically be included in the cable offerings for these cities (thank you must carry laws).

Could the AVS and Nuggets be the next Cubs and Bulls (sorry but WGN did not cover Black Hawks games).

-Matt

ktmglen

01-26-06, 06:36 PM

skyburn

01-26-06, 07:14 PM

Has anybody had any success receiving any of the Denver digital stations in Fort Collins, CO? If so, what size / type of antenna, preamp, and rotor did you use?

I'm interested in giving it a try, but do not want to buy a large UHF antenna and preamp is there is no chance of it working at all.

I could probably get the Fox station broadcast from east of town and the independent station broadcast from on top of Horsetooth, but that's not a compelling enough reason for me to spend the money to receive these signals.

Thanks,
Glen

I live just north of FtC slightly east of US287. I have a RS VU-90 80" UHF/VHF antenna pointed due-south. I receive the following channels on my E* 921:

KWGN-DT (WB2, UHF 34, Channel 2) @ 107-112/125 signal strength (i.e., the 921 meter goes to 125, and I get a ranged signal from 107-112) -- highly watchable/reliable

KDVR-DT (FOX, UHF 32, Channel 31) @ 112-116/125 -- highly watchable/reliable

KFCT (FOX, a KDVR repeater NE of FtC, UHF21, Channel 22) @ ~70-75/125 -- highly watchable, but why when I get KDVR so well (if my antenna pointed towards this tower, I'm sure the strength would be in the 100s)

KBDI-DT (PBS, UHF 38, Channel 12) @ ~112/125 -- highly watchable/reliable, they have 3 subchannels that only send out SD content

KWHD-DT (Independent, UHF 46, Channel 53) at a reasonable signal -- I don't watch this channel so I don't recall the signal strength -- SD content as far as I can tell.

That's about it....

I've tried in vain to get KUSA-DT (NBC) and KMGH-DT (ABC), especially due to the recent change at KMGH, and while I get a picture for KUSA every once in a while at night that's watchable, it's very unreliable. I only recently (like in the past few days) have been trying to get KMGH and I've never gotten a solid signal -- it comes in and out and is never above about 60 signal strength on my 921.

I recently bought an in-line 10dB amplifier from RS with a power inserter/injector and that didn't help a bit. So, I guess I'm out of luck until ABC/NBC/CBS eventually get their towers up on Lookout, if ever.

I have tried also to get CBS out of Cheyenne (KGWN/UHF 30, Channel 5) by pointing my antenna North, but to no avail. But, I have a house that's elevated from mine directly to the North, and I might not be getting past the peak of their house with my antenna.

If you stood on my house and looked from the highest elevation my antenna is at, there is a clear LOS to Denver, with nothing in the way except an occasional tree.

So, it's definitely worth it to me to have the antenna because I watch a fair bit of stuff on Fox and the WB, but when Dish has Denver locals in HD, and I bite the bullet and upgrade to a ViP 622 later this spring, I won't care much -- it remains to be seen what'll happen to WB2 with their merger with UPN, so at some point maybe I'll only need that antenna for the WB/UPN channel.

- Joe

Audiguy3

01-26-06, 10:20 PM

milehighmike

01-27-06, 01:45 AM

I had a chance to talk to my friend who is a programmer at Dish (E*) tonight. He told me that for the first set of LIL's that E* plans to roll out in the spring, E* will send the Super Bowl in HD via the LIL's to those cities. Since Denver is included in the first E* HD LIL roll out, it looks like KMGH's HD signal will be beamed to E* locals subscribers. So, as I understand it, if you subscribe to E*'s Denver locals and have an HD receiver, such as the 811 or 921, you will be able to watch the Super Bowl in HD. The KMGH transmission will end at the end of the game. This info is, of course, unofficial, but my friend has been very reliable in the past. So there is some hope for E* subscribers who receive Denver LIL locals but can't receive KMGH's HD OTA signal. If I hear anything else regarding this topic, I'll post the info.

kucharsk

01-27-06, 04:17 AM

So there is some hope for E* subscribers who receive Denver LIL locals but can't receive KMGH's HD OTA signal. If I hear anything else regarding this topic, I'll post the info.But given both E* and D* have apparently commited to "HD Lite" it's far less appealing than it might otherwise be.

Besides, the point still is we should be getting those signals for free.

Contact Golden officials and demand they allow the LCG tower to be built; if they won't, be sure to help elect officials that will.

UHForever

01-27-06, 04:38 AM

If Altitude were wise, they would look into acquiring the KTVD broadcast rights and facilities or offer its programming to Gannett for a sizable fee.

LXIX,

As cool as what you're proposing is, I can assure you that of the numerous options that Gannett is probably contemplating for what direction to go with KTVD, writing big fat checks to Kronke/Altitude is most certainly not one of them.

Having said that, I highly doubt the Post's speculation that Gannett will back out of the deal for KTVD because of the impending shutdown of UPN. I think there is a good chance that Gannett will be very happy with a true 'independent' station, giving them total freedom to program what they want, in whatever time period they see fit. I believe now more than ever that this will (eventually) include some locally produced programming (certainly not all of it news) and that that programming will likely be in HD, just like KUSA. Unfortunately, I doubt much of it will be sports, since both FSN Rocky Mtn and Altitude have pretty much saturated that market in Denver. Suffice it to say, it will be very interesting to see how things play out with Channel 20 (19).

At least we know one thing for sure, that KWGN will be the 'CW' affiliate come September...and depending on how the schedule works out, we may finally get "Veronica Mars" in HD!

DP1

01-27-06, 09:08 AM

But given both E* and D* have apparently commited to "HD Lite" it's far less appealing than it might otherwise be.

Besides, the point still is we should be getting those signals for free.

Contact Golden officials and demand they allow the LCG tower to be built; if they won't, be sure to help elect officials that will.

Sure, in general thats the case, but in the context of his original post regarding the Super Bowl, I doubt it's far less appealing to those particular folks since it'll either be that or the SD feed.

Unless you're suggesting with a last minute flood of phone calls today they'll give the green light to start tower construction tomorrow and have it built in a week. ;)

DrrD

01-27-06, 10:04 AM

DP1

01-27-06, 10:19 AM

It's that the sat co's are transmiting a number of channels in 1280x1080 instead of 1920x1080 at the moment. They can get more in that way.

LiL just bascially means local channels into local areas. Just as the sat co's have been offering the local Denver channels in SD for a number of years, they'll soon be offering some of the HD versions. Of the "major" networks at least to begin with.

JMartinko

01-27-06, 11:19 AM

So what does "HD-lite" mean anyway? I've searched, but can't find a definition. I presume it means they're not transmitting the full 1080i/720p signal, but details would be appreciated.

While we're at it, was does "LIL" mean, as in "Denver LIL locals."

Thanks.
Dozens of threads on this subject on the Programming pages. The subject has been discussed and nearly beaten to death many times over. The most recent
HDLite 'thread of the day' (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=634339)

LIL refers to the local channels being broadcast into the local areas, either SD or HD.

DrrD

01-27-06, 12:59 PM

Dozens of threads on this subject on the Programming pages. The subject has been discussed and nearly beaten to death many times over. The most recent
HDLite 'thread of the day' (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=634339)

LIL refers to the local channels being broadcast into the local areas, either SD or HD.

Thanks, I did see that thread, but no where in it do they say what HD-lite is exactly, although it's pretty clear it's a lower-res version of true HD.

don_ferraro

01-27-06, 02:24 PM

Don,
A preamp usually can't just be 'turned off'. You need to remove both the amplifier(closest to the antenna) and the power insertion device(inside your house). If either one remains connected, you probably won't get squat.
....jc

Ah yes, sorry about my wording... I meant to say... "I un-installed the pre-amp", meaning I removed all parts of it from the line to the antenna. All channels denver RP channels lost about 20 on the signal strength. KCNC went away completely...

JMartinko

01-27-06, 05:05 PM

Thanks, I did see that thread, but no where in it do they say what HD-lite is exactly, although it's pretty clear it's a lower-res version of true HD.
Dan gave you the correct technical answer in terms of resolution, which is the most common version of HDLite. The ongoing topics also refer to delivery bit rates, compression technicues etc. and their impact on picture quality. Just search the programming page for the topic and you will find extensive discussions (intermingled among a LOT of Comcast, Network OTA, D* and E* bashing) on the impacts of the various items.

Orc Hunter

01-27-06, 10:48 PM

How about they restore full HD bandwidth to KUSA-DT and use 19-1 for Weather "Minus"?

I actually like 9-2's Weather Plus, then again I could watch the weather channel for hours, too. :)

CEB II

01-27-06, 11:19 PM

ktmglen

01-27-06, 11:32 PM

Thanks Joe and Reggie for the info on Fort Collins area reception. I'm headed over to the NoCo / Cheyenne forum now!

-Glen

santellavision

01-28-06, 10:18 AM

[quote]Don't get your hopes up. This won't be happening! Scroll down the SatelliteGuys home page and you will see a listing of the 10 cities that will receive the SB in HD from E*. The are ABC O&Os, which KMGH is not.[quote]Is the 'Satellite Guy's' the definitive source on satellite info... I think not. Remember, Charlie lives here and most likely wants to watch it himself.

Flint, MI is on the list. I bet Michael Moore's gonna' be happy next Sunday! ;)

jp9

01-28-06, 01:03 PM

On the Jan 9 Dish Network special HD chat, Charlie Ergen said he gets off-air locals at his house, but in referring to Dish starting HD locals is "....excited to get it via satellite, 'cause maybe the quality's gonna be a a little bit better" :eek: :eek: :eek:

code4code5

01-28-06, 10:59 PM

Here is the problem with your argument besides everyone being pissed off at the idiots who are trying to stop the tower. The people of CARE CHOSE TO LIVE NEAR THE PROPOSED TOWER AND CHOSE TO LIVE NEAR THE EXISTING TOWERS. Their is no arguing, questioning, or resisting. Its about choice. They choose to hire lawyers and stop this. The other thing you completely fail to realize is that this is now a safety concern for the other 3 million people who are dependent on Communication for our first responders, National Guard and Police. They will be needing the old analog signals to protect us. As far as I am concerned the people of SCARE are a bunch of selfish, greedy Nazis who don't deserve to live in Colorado. I would like to see them forced from their homes and moved permanently to someplace nice, like New Orleans.

Quite true... When the 700mnz channels that analog TV is now occupying is released, public safety is going to get a huge chunk of that much needed bandwidth. Now it's 2009, and i'll be willing to bet that in 2007 they'll announce that it's been pushed back to 2011. Whatever.

donyoop

01-29-06, 10:34 AM

Contact Golden officials and demand they allow the LCG tower to be built; if they won't, be sure to help elect officials that will.

Unless something has changed, I thought it was out of the hands of the Golden officials and entirely up to Judge Jackson to either affirm the last vote of the Jeffco BCC or allow the building permit.

The eminent domain threat is all that is now, a threat. LCG could put the eminent domain issue into the courts for years fighting that; the resolution would be long after the tower is built if Judge Jackson allows the building permit to go forward (although that is not close to being likely IMO).

Don

Timay

01-29-06, 10:56 AM

Steve from KCNC sent this photo of the antennae on RP...he said its changed since this pic was taken, channel 7s antenna has been added! :)

Thanks, Steve!

Tim

santellavision

01-29-06, 11:19 AM

The eminent domain threat is all that is now, a threat.It's more than a threat, Golden gave LCG a deadline (I think it's just expired) to take their so-called deal. They have publicly stated they are going forward with the Eminent Domain Seizure process. Now, who knows how long that will take to get on a court docket... we all know how long it takes to get anything heard in JeffCo. Judge Jackson's hearing is set for sometime in June or July.

BobLikesHDTV

01-29-06, 08:02 PM

It's more than a threat, Golden gave LCG a deadline (I think it's just expired) to take their so-called deal. They have publicly stated they are going forward with the Eminent Domain Seizure process. Now, who knows how long that will take to get on a court docket... we all know how long it takes to get anything heard in JeffCo. Judge Jackson's hearing is set for sometime in June or July.

I can't wait to see the heavyweights at Viacom, Gannett, et al legal departments begin the multi-million dollar lawsuits against Golden for restraint of trade. They could break Golden and Jeffco financially into little, bitty pieces.

So much for road repairs for us in Central Jeffco!

jp9

01-29-06, 09:05 PM

longrider

01-29-06, 10:17 PM

I highly doubt you will get a waiver based on previous responses from KMGH, however for anybody living on the far south end try turning your antenna to the south. I admit Elizabeth is halfway between Denver and C Springs, however a temporary setup that can barely get a usable signal off RP gets a signal in the 80s off 13.1 when turned to the south. This is just a cheap Rat Shack UHF Yagi on a 10 ft mast zip tied to my deck railing. To top it off, pointing to the south it is still below the roofline! Once I get my 30' mast up with a 4228, I will probably be watching the Springs more than Denver...

JMartinko

01-29-06, 11:24 PM

Don't laugh....

Anyone think ch 7 might take pity on those of us who still cannot receive them in HD from Rebublic Plaza and allow waivers for distant channel O&O Dish Network HD feeds of the superbowl ?
I won't laugh......but the answer is still no. I don't think you have a chance in h*ll of getting a favor of a waiver from KMGwhatever. C. Springs if probably your only hope at this point.

dr_mal

01-29-06, 11:26 PM

Don't laugh....

Anyone think ch 7 might take pity on those of us who still cannot receive them in HD from Rebublic Plaza and allow waivers for distant channel O&O Dish Network HD feeds of the superbowl ?
As long as we're going for Hail Mary passes here...what about calling up Comcast and seeing if you can get hooked up this week, then cancelling the day after the big game? AFAIK, there are no term-commitments or upfront equipment purchase with them...

Or an alternate play: call up E* and "move" your service address to a city within an ABC O&O market. You know, for about a week.

HDJello

01-29-06, 11:34 PM

......but the answer is still no.
Too bad KMGH isn't owned by Capital One instead of McGraw Hill :D.

Fuzzyb

01-31-06, 03:18 AM

As long as we're going for Hail Mary passes here...what about calling up Comcast and seeing if you can get hooked up this week, then cancelling the day after the big game? AFAIK, there are no term-commitments or upfront equipment purchase with them...

Or an alternate play: call up E* and "move" your service address to a city within an ABC O&O market. You know, for about a week.

Just call up your buddy out of town & have him send you an extra smart card from his sat dish receiver, for a week :D

santellavision

01-31-06, 10:08 AM

Or an alternate play: call up E* and "move" your service address to a city within an ABC O&O market. You know, for about a week.I didn't think that E* would let you do that. I know D* has a loop-hole and does. My buddy lives in downstate IL and his service address is NYC Works like a champ!

HDJello

01-31-06, 12:01 PM

I didn't think that E* would let you do that. I know D* has a loop-hole and does. My buddy lives in downstate IL and his service address is NYC Works like a champ!
I don't know what happened to all the talk about "spot beam" technology. I would assume that if the spot was sufficiently small, then chaning your service address wouldn't work. I suspect that the NY and LA locals would remain on the "broad beam", since both D* and E* provide those to white areas where there is no local signal to get.

santellavision

01-31-06, 12:21 PM

I know that D* uses 'spot-beam'. So, you can't move to say... Boston or Cleveland, but you're absolutely right, the NY feeds are national and not spot-beamed.

JMartinko

01-31-06, 07:07 PM

I thought I read that D* plans to drop the LA feeds from national beams once the locals are implemented with the spot beams, so if true, that could limit your options to NYC in the future. Not sure what E* plans to do.

twelsh27

01-31-06, 09:07 PM

Has anyone noticed any decrease in signal strength for KCNC in the last couple of days? I'm in Arvada and I have been getting low 80s with just a simple indoor antenna since last September. Last night I noticed some fluctuation from low 60s down to the 20s and no signal. Now tonight - no signal at all?

Anything going on ?

santellavision

01-31-06, 10:11 PM

I haven't checked in a while, but I'm not receiving KTVD DT19.1 Are they on-the-air tonight?

oxothuk

01-31-06, 10:59 PM

I haven't checked in a while, but I'm not receiving KTVD DT19.1 Are they on-the-air tonight?I think they were only on the air for about a week, and never really firing on all cylinders even then.

And that was before the WB/UPN merger announcement.

JMartinko

01-31-06, 11:55 PM

I haven't checked in a while, but I'm not receiving KTVD DT19.1 Are they on-the-air tonight?
I have looked for their signal sporadically, but I don't recall seeing anything on 19-1 since back about when KMGwhatever moved their coathanger.

TheBert

02-01-06, 01:17 PM

I have not been able to receive anything on 19.1 since the HMGH move as well.

jfh3

02-01-06, 02:19 PM

On the news this morning KMGH had a story on their broadcasting of the Super Bowl in HD, indicating that with their recent improvements "Denver area residents should be able to receive the game in high definition" (from memory).

They indicated that there would be much more on this story during the 5pm newscast this afternoon.

Let's hope it's more informative and realistic than the piece they did right before the playoffs which was nothing more than an advertisement for getting Comcast.

(That piece said you could get the KMGH signal over the air, over cable or satellite, glossing over the fact that only a minority can get it over the air and that no one could've gotten an HD signal from satellite, since neither Dish nor DirecTV were carrying Denver HD signals at the time).

adam1115

02-01-06, 03:34 PM

But if you are like me OTA does not exist

And I think we have a better chance to get the Sat companies to increase resolution than we do to get a tower built.

Reggie

Fort Collins? You sould be able to pick up the Fox 31 repeater in fort collins and CBS in Cheyenne.

mikeaco

02-01-06, 03:45 PM

Has anyone noticed any decrease in signal strength for KCNC in the last couple of days?
Check again today. This morning I did a signal strength test and noticed that all of the RP stations were coming in about 20% higher than normal. A couple of days ago, I was getting the following results:

16...KUSA...low 60's
17...KMGH...mid 60's
18...KRMA...high 50's
19...KTVD...0
35...KCNC...less than 20 (no lock)

And, when I checked this morning:

16...KUSA...low 80's (never been in the 80's)
17...KMGH...high 70's
18...KRMA...high 70's (never seen it this high)
19...KTVD...0
35...KCNC...high 60's (never seen it this high)

So, I'm not sure if it was the weather (atmosphere) this morning or if something actually changed. Ever since KMGH moved, I have been able to get it reliably all the way up here in Loveland. KCNC has ALWAYS been a flaky one for me. With KMGH now online, CBS is the only major network I need to rely on the D* sat feed (West Coast waiver) to get on my HDTIVO.

bjcatlin

02-01-06, 04:12 PM

They indicated that there would be much more on this story during the 5pm newscast this afternoon.

Let's hope it's more informative and realistic than the piece they did right before the playoffs which was nothing more than an advertisement for getting Comcast.

Well, here is a link to their story on their web site. It basically just tells about the move to RP and briefly mentions the new tower and points to the hdtvcolorado.com web site.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/6653601/detail.html

LXIX

02-01-06, 05:06 PM

Just checked my tuner and 19.1 is back on the air. I am now getting audio and no picture break-ups. I am located near County Line Road and University.

-Matt

Audiguy3

02-01-06, 05:35 PM

Fort Collins? You sould be able to pick up the Fox 31 repeater in fort collins and CBS in Cheyenne.

I do - I get both, wb, and 12 digital

adam1115

02-01-06, 06:56 PM

I do - I get both, wb, and 12 digital

Have you had ANY luck with the Downtown stations? I get 0 on all of them, I'm in Milliken with a rooftop antenna on a tripod with a 5 foot mast. I'm thinking of trying a 10-15 foot mast.... Must be a hill in the way.

Fox and WB are a great signal...

pkeegan

02-01-06, 08:04 PM

Looks like KTVD is transmitting again. :)

JMartinko

02-01-06, 08:17 PM

Anyone watch the SB XL HD news story on KMGwhatever?? My curiosity got the best of me. Pretty lame story. They kept saying that just because you have an HD set doesn't mean you get to see 'real HD', and then proceeded to have a guy from Ultimate electronics tell you that you need high end HD cables from your box to your TV set to get the 'true HD signal'. No mention of how it gets to your box. Darn, and all this time I thought it had to do with the fact that KMGwhatever used a coathanger and squirrel to broadcast HD and only recently even bothered to put the coathanger 'above ground'.

Of course they didn't mention that we don't see true full HD from KMGwhatever anyway as long as they multicast their SD signal on 7-2. They did say you could only get HD from Comcast or using your outside antenna on 'channel 17', but made no mention of the fact it is not on Lookout but is downtown. The piece was about the quality of their coathanger on their studio. Don't forget guys, you have to go get those HD cables from Ultimate, "the ones that come with your TV most likely aren't good enough".

To think I could have been watching HD from KMGwhatever all of these years if I had just gotten better cables......

BTW, looks like 19-1 is indeed back on the air.

Fuzzyb

02-01-06, 08:38 PM

From there web site story: KMGH-TV installed a temporary high-definition tower atop Republic Plaza in downtown Denver
I don't know if 8' off the roof is quiet consired a Tower.

I never thought of the better cables, Radio Shack here I come!

JMartinko

02-01-06, 08:45 PM

From there web site story:
I don't know if 8' off the roof is quiet consired a Tower.

I never thought of the better cables, Radio Shack here I come!
No, the guy from Ultimate was very clear, you have to go to Ultimate to get the proper cables, the ones at Radio Shaft just can't work. I wonder if Listen Up will take mine back??
;)

sunshinedawg

02-01-06, 08:54 PM

To think I could have been watching HD from KMGwhatever all of these years if I had just gotten better cables......

That is the funniest thing I've read in this thread in quite awhile. :)

Jetlag

02-01-06, 09:11 PM

That guy from Ultimate told me that not only will those 'monstrously' superior cables improve the HD picture, but they will also make me more intelligent, wealthy, and irresistibly attractive to the ladies! Now, where did I put Jennifer Aniston's phone number... :rolleyes:

longrider

02-01-06, 09:54 PM

Thanks everybody, this is the first time this forum made me LOL :) I do have a couple of those 'monstrously' superior cables so I guess I should get a great picture. However I dont care if the hamster dies Sunday, I will be watching KRDO with a signal in the 80's Sunday...

JMartinko

02-02-06, 01:11 AM

..............Now, where did I put Jennifer Aniston's phone number... :rolleyes:
If you keep them alphabetically it should be right after Jessica Alba's. That's where I keep it in my book.
:cool:

How about a show of hands here from everyone having a SB party????
Will you be watching "TRUE" HD using Ultimate cables, or 'fake' HD using cables from another store??

I will have a small one (fake HD?, cables from LU, but then again maybe true HD since I won't be sourcing it from KMGwhatever and their multicast channels). But it won't be nearly as much fun as if the Broncos were in the game. Just wait till next year after we sign TO!
:eek:

GWWaterBufalo

02-02-06, 04:04 AM

So, is the reason the KMGH signal sucks so bad is they feel the need to split their signal and give us 7.2 shinola? Who here hasn't already programmed 9.2 out of their receiver - or 7.2 if you are lucky enough to own enough squirrel tackle to receive KMGH in the first place (and of course if you have a pair of those nice cables from UE)....

I wonder what some of the sponsors that spent millions to advertise during the SB would think if they knew some of us weren't watching the SB (and hence their commercials) simply because we can't get it in HD due to some crazy need to broadcast 7.2 shinola 24 hours a day....

mknoebel

02-02-06, 09:38 AM

I'm going to take a weekend trip up to my Canadian Cabin to have a little Super Bowl party. Sadly, it won't be "true HD" without my high $ cables, but we'll make due I guess!
;)

Jetlag

02-02-06, 09:49 AM

No SB party this year, PJ and screen were sold. Instead I'll be travelling from Reno to Denver and then out to San Jose and back to Denver. *sigh* :( For your sake I hope that the commercials and halftime entertainment are not as completely lame as last year. I think Pat Robertson must have made the arrangements for that game (with the possible exception of the GoDaddy commercial).

keithsimp

02-02-06, 11:14 AM

I guess I need to hurry down to UE and get me some of them 'monstrously" expensive cables for this weekend. I hope they have that 18 months same as cash deal going on.

Jetlag

02-02-06, 11:54 AM

Maybe someone can help refresh my memory, but when we toured the HDNet production facilities and other local (lesser) TV production facilities, how many of those fancy cables did you see in the studio? If I remember correctly, it was mostly Belden or Canare Studio grade stuff, with a bunch of fiber mixed in. This is the same that us DIYers have been using for years (well, except for the fiber). :cool: Superior quality and only a fraction of the cost of those pre-packaged monstrosities. :rolleyes:

OK, now back to b1tching about (S)CARE!

LXIX

02-02-06, 12:21 PM

That ladies HDTV experience will be better with those cables, as apposed to a decent audio system to take full advantage of the HDTV broadcast. :confused:

Last time I checked, the Super Bowl will be in DD 5.1. Her HDTV experience will be awe inspiring through those 2" full range drivers in the TV.

Even if you are not interested in watching movies at 110dB, you can still benefit from the better dialog and the lower distortion an audio system can bring.

Typical UE looking at the low hanging fruit and missing the sweetest/best fruit at the top of the tree.

-Matt

zfmax

02-02-06, 04:15 PM

Where's can a person find a CM 4228 in stock? Preferably north, I'm in Longmont, but will drive south if needed. TIA

Dave6833

02-02-06, 05:38 PM

Click here (http://www.hdbeat.com/2006/02/02/denver-wants-to-watch-the-super-bowl-in-hd/#comments) to read what the HDBeat blog has to say about Denver OTA in general and KMGwhatever in particular.

longrider

02-02-06, 06:01 PM

Where's can a person find a CM 4228 in stock? Preferably north, I'm in Longmont, but will drive south if needed. TIA
2 weeks ago the only place in the state I could find one was Pueblo Wintronics. My time wasn't urgent and with the cost of driving to Pueblo I just ordered one from Solid Signal and it got here in 3 days.

Audiguy3

02-02-06, 11:20 PM

Where's can a person find a CM 4228 in stock? Preferably north, I'm in Longmont, but will drive south if needed. TIA
You might call:
Mountain States Electronics Inc 2107 S College Av
Fort Collins, CO 80525 - 1426
(970) 484-1044

Reggie

CEB II

02-03-06, 01:58 AM

HDTV cables. Well if they are DVI or HDMI, they either work or they don't. There isn't any degraded PQ condition with those types of cables.

There might be an argument regarding component cables, but I’ve used all four brands that I own and can't see a bit of difference in HDTV PQ between any of them (Philips, Rat Shack Gold, E*, imported Japanese from on-line retailer). Of course none of them are the pricey Monster cables, which I've bought in the past for s-video and composite video, with no apparent improvement in those PQs.

No SB party here, just my better half and I with a couple of tall cool brews. I got a feeling about this one though. The national press is all but arranging the champagne in the Steeler's locker room, sort of like they did with the Raiders in the SB against Tampa Bay a few years ago. I think this is the Seahawks year.

As to the Broncos next SB, TO will help, but if they don't find a reliable pass rusher, there won't be any trophy in the Mile High City.

zfmax

02-03-06, 10:11 AM

jpco

02-03-06, 12:25 PM

squidboy

02-03-06, 12:27 PM

Great article.

"Sometimes the best picture comes from reconnecting the cables..." :D

BrianBHD

02-03-06, 01:16 PM

Got-HD

02-03-06, 01:53 PM

Symbios

02-03-06, 02:51 PM

gkanders

02-03-06, 03:23 PM

Anyone having any luck picking up the Republic (or Lookout Mountain) stations from Louisville? I can pick them up sporadically about 10% of the time. I have a decent outside antennae pointed in the right direction with an amplifier. However along with most of Louisville I seem to have a ridge between myself and downtown. Any suggestions?

I'm in Lafayette, so it may not help much, but I get all of the RP stations solidly with an indoor RS Double-bow-tie antenna. Have you tried removing the amp? Even off-axis, the analog stations from Lookout may be swamping your receiver. Just a thought.

toadjunior

02-03-06, 03:58 PM

You start with cables huh? How about you start with telling everybody that some TV's don't have HD tuners built in and that they may need to buy a separate box, and that the box needs to be able to get HD.

I can't help but wonder how many people new to the world of HD bought expensive cables to hook to their new HDTV to their analog cable or satellite receivers after reading that? One would hope that no one did.

It would have been nice for them to mention that little tidbit of info. There are a LOT of people out there that just don't understand this. My In laws for example thought that since they bought an HDTV Monitor, that they could hook up there cable, and every channel would magically be HD. And articles, and news segments like this don't help at all. In fact they make it worse.

Dave6833

02-03-06, 04:18 PM

By all means, don't let anyone from (s)CARE see this article (http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4452211) about a TV tower collapsing in Tyler, Texas! :eek:

JMartinko

02-03-06, 04:37 PM

By all means, don't let anyone from (s)CARE see this article (http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4452211) about a TV tower collapsing in Tyler, Texas! :eek:
From the article:
" The KLTV tower was approximately 25 years old. In late 2005, workers installed KLTV's new Digital and High Definition TV antenna on the tower."
Sounds to me like they should have built a new more modern tower with the latest technology instead of trying to use a 25 year old tower. I wonder if we might draw a connection to the old towers on Lookout and the need for a new more modern tower to replace the three older towers. (S)CARE may not like that inference.

JMartinko

02-03-06, 04:42 PM

FYI for hockey fans, tomorrow the Avs/'Red Wings S*ck' game is the NBC HD game so it should be HD locally on KUSA.

Symbios

02-03-06, 04:54 PM

Here's the story from KLTV, there's also a couple pictures and a video there: http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4451980

Pretty wild, it almost looks like a bomb went off.

toadjunior

02-03-06, 05:03 PM

But did it fall over like a tree, or did it slide down a mountain, and take out a bunch of houses. Oh wait, did it hit a powerline, and start the mountain on fire?

Got-HD

02-03-06, 05:55 PM

thanks -- i'll try that

Symbios

02-03-06, 06:05 PM

Well, it did hit a powerline. But no mountains were harmed that I can see.

JMartinko

02-03-06, 09:44 PM

We all better hope that there were no Prairie Dogs involved or killed or the entire community of Boulder will join (S)CARE in opposing the new tower.
:D

gkanders

02-03-06, 10:24 PM

Hey, I just noticed that I'm not seeing 7-2 tonight. Anyone out there who can capture bit rates want to check to see if 7-1 is getting full bandwidth?

Hopefully, 7-2 went the way of the Speer Blvd. transmission antenna :)

rc256

02-03-06, 11:33 PM

I just picked up a little Jensen TV911 amplified TV antenna at B*Buy on the way home this afternoon to see if I could get the Denver ABC-HD OTA from Parker. My house is on a ridge line with a view of the high rises in DTC but with no direct LOS of downtown Denver.

The bottom line is that my D*TV Samsung SIR-TS360 can get this and a number of other OTA HD feeds. I get the following OTA HD (sorry, I don't see where the D*TV HD receiver has signal levels for the OTA HD) 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 7-1, 9-1, 9-2, 19-1, and 31-1.

All it took was the SB coming to a ABC (ABC and NBC being the only two national HD feeds not in the Denver D*TV market) to finally get me to go out and try an amplified antenna for OTA HD. Hopefully this information will be useful to others.

boilerup

02-04-06, 12:19 AM

Anyone having any luck picking up the Republic (or Lookout Mountain) stations from Louisville? I can pick them up sporadically about 10% of the time. I have a decent outside antennae pointed in the right direction with an amplifier. However along with most of Louisville I seem to have a ridge between myself and downtown. Any suggestions?

I'm in Superior and can get all the RP stations consistently with a DB4 antenna in the attic and a CM pre-amp. Pointed towards RP, I still get a strong signal from the Lookout stations 2 and 31. What kind of antenna are you using?

BobLikesHDTV

02-04-06, 01:11 PM

Thanks A4, I'll call them.

Did you guys see that stoopid article?

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/call7forhelp/6664090/detail.html

Nevermind the BS about cable quality, look at this:

"Laxson of Ultimate Electronics pointed out that two of the three (component and DVI) work with a compressed signal and there's a loss in video quality. What makes the HDMI so superior is that it works with an uncompressed signal."

Unbelievable. Just makes me want to run out and buy something at Ultimate, they've got such knowledgeable staff!

HDMI does give a nice picture, no question. It creates a fully digital connection, provided you have a digital HDTV. But there are two problems with the article beyond what you've written.

First, the Comcast 6412 Phase II box does not have an HDMI output. It does have one for DVI, however.

Second, there is one more fully digital cable they're not talking about in the article that the Comcast 6412 Phase II will take: Firewire (1394 cable). I guess they don't sell them. Fortunately, I have one from my video camera. My Mitsubishi will accept it. And the difference in picture between this and component cables is stark. It is especially noticeable with SD programs. The picture is not only brighter and sharper, it's also wider. On my 57" screen, it easily gives me 5 - 6" more diagonally. And why do I suddenly sound like I'm talking to the girls about size on ladies night out?

So if you have the 6412 Phase II, a TV that will accept the Firewire and a spare firewire cable hanging around, try it. It's amazing. The picture is almost as good as a direct connection from the cable or OTA reception.

BobLikesHDTV

02-04-06, 01:17 PM

FYI for hockey fans, tomorrow the Avs/'Red Wings S*ck' game is the NBC HD game so it should be HD locally on KUSA.

I've been watching for the last several weeks. So far it's been a poor SD broadcast. Very blurry. Sort of like the Denver Crush game last Sunday, though not quite as bad. That was horrific. Like watching it through gauze.

BobLikesHDTV

02-04-06, 01:21 PM

You start with cables huh? How about you start with telling everybody that some TV's don't have HD tuners built in and that they may need to buy a separate box, and that the box needs to be able to get HD.

I can't help but wonder how many people new to the world of HD bought expensive cables to hook their new HDTV to their analog cable or satellite receivers after reading that? One would hope that no one did.

I wonder how many know that their new, fancy HDTV has integrated HDTV and all they need to do is go into the attic, pull out the rabbit ears with the loop antenna in the middle, connect the UHF portion to the TV, search out the digital channels, and they're in business?

morrisonken

02-04-06, 01:25 PM

well guys i have been into audio for 25 years and video ie cctv for about the same.wanted to give you guys my two cents worth. best cable for antenna or component video is belden 1694a. best connector is canare.best price-make your own. best quality and price if you dont want to make your own is bluejeans cable. monster makes some cables almost as good as bluejeans at three times the price. belden 1694a is rg6 and has lower loss and better shielding than rg6 quad.hdmi cable will output your audio signal at 48khz/16bit pcm if the signal is encrypted for copyright protection and not 96khz/24 bit.
hope this helps-good forum.

mitsu ws-65517
hughs h-10 dtv
xg93a yagi on channel master rotor
channel master cm7775 26bd amp
rat shack attenuator
sony dvp ns70h upscale hdmi 720p-1080i dvd player
pioneer vsx-815 7.1 ch rec
jbl northridge e-60 towers-e35 center e-10 rears. orb audio mod 1s for side surround. outlaw audio lfm one subwoofer

JMartinko

02-04-06, 01:51 PM

well guys i have been into audio for 25 years and video ie cctv for about the same.wanted to give you guys my two cents worth. best cable for antenna..........................pcm if the signal is encrypted for copyright protection and not 96khz/24 bit.
hope this helps-good forum.

Welcome to the forum morrisonken. If your sig implies you actually live in Morrison, its always good to have an insider (a.k.a. mole?) living with the enemy. Unfortunately, do to your proximity to Lookout Mt., you may have been so exposed to the radiation from the towers on Lookout that we may not be able to seriously consider your comments due to the obvious resultant brain damage. Hopefully you haven't lived in that 'radiation nightmare' very long, or at least you have kept some aluminum foil wrapped around your head like the (S)CARE folks suggest.
:D

Seriously, welcome to the thread, thanks for your comments.

morrisonken

02-04-06, 02:13 PM

well i also have ham gear at my home 20 so i can make my own rf but have learned to keep two leds up my nose and when my upper lip lights up i turn my radio equipment off.
ps. im on doublehead mtn at 8600 feet. lookout is line of sight at about 10miles and in 17 years i have only grown one extra finger but it helps me type.

MileHighJC

02-04-06, 05:13 PM

longrider

02-04-06, 05:42 PM

MileHighJC

02-04-06, 05:48 PM

I am om the other side of town but I found aim to be real critical. I never could get a totally satisfactory signal from KMGH but I never tried too hard once I found I can get KRDO 13.1 out of C. Springs I would try the aim first, even with an amp I had to be spot on to even lock KMGH

Thats what Im really wondering about... my aim right now is pretty "coarse" - meaning I get the RP stations one day messing around for about 5 mins... didnt really try to optimize a lot. Not sure whether I just got lucky, or whether there is more signal to be had. Sounds like it might be worth carefully moving around the antenna a bit.

What Im not sure about is how things REALLY shake out with a digital signal. In the old world, I would think that amping up a bit to improve signal/noise would fix the prob, but with digital, Im worried that the problem isnt really signal to noise, as I see on here that many seem to lock on with less signal strength than I have. I just dont know.

Im worried that if I try to aim a little better, I could lose the whole ball of wax. Its frustrating, because up until today, I had a great pic on KMGH, and the rest of the RP stations EXCEPT 19.

IF I did try the amp route, and recommdations on something I can pick up locally? Or am I SOL before tomorrow.

jc
jc

longrider

02-04-06, 06:02 PM

MileHighJC

02-04-06, 06:11 PM

A strong signal and no lock sounds like multipath problems which aim should resolve. I didnt connect on how much signal you had. For an amp Radio Shack has some plus most Lowes have a lower end Channel Master

Thats an interesting thought... so I went in to monitor the signal strength on the 811 set up screen... today, its bouncing all over the place. It hovers around 59% for a while, drops into the 40's, goes up into the low 60's, even drops to 0 once in a while... is that indicative of multipath? BTW: the other RP stations except for 19 are clear, and solid.

jc

longrider

02-04-06, 06:20 PM

I am still somewhat of a newbie to OTA ATSC reception, I have learned a lot the past few weeks once I gave up on D* HD locals. That said, my understanding is a bouncing signal strength IS indicative of multipath issues. If aiming doesn't help much you may have to actually move the antenna a few feet.

CEB II

02-04-06, 09:12 PM

Thats an interesting thought... so I went in to monitor the signal strength on the 811 set up screen... today, its bouncing all over the place. It hovers around 59% for a while, drops into the 40's, goes up into the low 60's, even drops to 0 once in a while... is that indicative of multipath? BTW: the other RP stations except for 19 are clear, and solid.
jc

Have you visited antennaweb.org to get your azimuth and distance to RP? Point the antenna using that azimuth. Post your distance. I'm guessing 20+ miles from the source. At that distance w/o a pre-amp, w/o an outdoor antenna, and w/ our low low power DTV stations, you likely have a signal to noise issue more than any multi-path issue.

The Dish 811 needs a minimum of a solid 60+ to maintain a lock. When you see what you are seeing, you just don't have enough signal to work with. If you were jumping around from like zero or 49 to the high 70's, then you'd have a multi-path problem.

Please be sure you are always talking and saying pre-amp and not just amp. You might get good value out of a pre-amp in your situation (assuming that re-aiming your antenna doesn't help). Unfortunately, a high noise factor pre-amp might be self-defeating. You need a very low noise pre-amp like the CM 7775. Unfortunately again, you probably can't get one in metro-Denver, so you're SOL for the SB. You might try buying a Rat Shack pre-amp, use it for the SB (assuming it helps) and return it on Monday. RS has an excellent return policy.

CEB II

02-04-06, 09:14 PM

Anyone else notice that Ghost Wisperer was in SD last night? Anyone know why?

pezjohnson

02-04-06, 10:33 PM

sunshinedawg

02-04-06, 11:37 PM

Advice requested...

Since KMGH hit the airwaves, Ive been able to receive a pretty decent picture/audio in NW Longmont - but only at 60-61% signal strength. Today (I assume weather related), the signal strength has dropped to 59-60%, and I have massive pixelation and audio dropouts on my Dish 811. The antenna is in the attic, with a coax run of about 100'. There is no amp in place now.

So... given I have a SB party planned for tomorrow, and Im not interested in watching a standard def signal... are my odds better trying to move the antenna a bit ti fine tune the signal, buy an amp, both? Pray for better weather?

BTW: 19 is even worse... its there but completely unwatchable (as is KMGH today anyway)

Thoughts?
jc

17-1 has been dropping for me during the day. It goes down to 40-45 on my panny plasma. This evening for Harry Potter it is hovering around 62. You might want to try an amp. I can't get any of the RP signals without one. I think it's funny that now I can get 17-1 it happens to be my weakest signal. Go figure. :rolleyes:

CEB II

02-04-06, 11:47 PM

I did a little Google search for "comparison DVI HDMI" and my 2nd results had a great article from ecoustics. I can't post the url since I'm newly registered, but maybe someone could find it and post it, and email it to channel 7 and UE.

Is the eCoustics article to which you are referring, eCoustics (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html)

MileHighJC

02-05-06, 12:46 AM

Have you visited antennaweb.org to get your azimuth and distance to RP? Point the antenna using that azimuth. Post your distance. I'm guessing 20+ miles from the source. At that distance w/o a pre-amp, w/o an outdoor antenna, and w/ our low low power DTV stations, you likely have a signal to noise issue more than any multi-path issue.

The Dish 811 needs a minimum of a solid 60+ to maintain a lock. When you see what you are seeing, you just don't have enough signal to work with. If you were jumping around from like zero or 49 to the high 70's, then you'd have a multi-path problem.

Please be sure you are always talking and saying pre-amp and not just amp. You might get good value out of a pre-amp in your situation (assuming that re-aiming your antenna doesn't help). Unfortunately, a high noise factor pre-amp might be self-defeating. You need a very low noise pre-amp like the CM 7775. Unfortunately again, you probably can't get one in metro-Denver, so you're SOL for the SB. You might try buying a Rat Shack pre-amp, use it for the SB (assuming it helps) and return it on Monday. RS has an excellent return policy.

Thanks much... I know antennaweb well! Dont think I would have ever even tried to do OTA if I had not found that site thanks to AVS. In any case, Im 32.7M from RP according to them, and at 154 degrees. As I mentioned before my aim was pretty "coarse", but have always done well with the RP signals before today. BTW : the house is a two story, and Im elevated about 3 feet higher than my neighbors (lucky me).

Fascinating... tonight, with no change to aim, and no additional equip, I now have a rock solid lock at 64-65% on both 17, and 19. This afternoon, neither would hold a decent lock for more than a few seconds, but all the other RP stations were fine. I guess I have to conclude that weather somehow was the culprit today, and hope that it doesnt happen tomorrow during the SB.

Having said that, sounds like a good low noise pre-amp would be a good investment for future peace of mind. Maybe a little more accurate aim would help too..

jc

Phil T

02-05-06, 01:40 AM

With strong winds predicted tomorrow I hope those of you with borderline signals don't get your antennas knocked around.

I always have to re-aim my outdoor antenna after we get strong winds.

Couch Patato

02-05-06, 04:32 AM

Anyone else notice that Ghost Wisperer was in SD last night? Anyone know why?

It was in HD most of the time. There was about a ten minute stretch at the end of the hour that was in SD. Probably a network thing but who really knows but the guys at ch.4.

BobLikesHDTV

02-05-06, 10:27 AM

Anyone else notice that Ghost Wisperer was in SD last night? Anyone know why?

Yes. It started in HD. About 10 minutes in it went to SD. No clue why. But I do know this usually happens with KCNC broadcasts, especially the Sunday night shows, and is darned frustrating.

CEB II

02-05-06, 11:39 AM

Yes. It started in HD. About 10 minutes in it went to SD. No clue why. But I do know this usually happens with KCNC broadcasts, especially the Sunday night shows, and is darned frustrating.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. We didn't get it on until about half way through (finishing a movie on Starz) and it was all SD. That ticked the wife off since she really enjoys Ghost Wisperer in HD because of the many bright and colorful scenes. Unlike CSI where almost every scene is so dark it could be SD in 16X9 format and most wouldn't notice.

CEB II

02-05-06, 11:52 AM

Thanks much... I know antennaweb well! Dont think I would have ever even tried to do OTA if I had not found that site thanks to AVS. In any case, Im 32.7M from RP according to them, and at 154 degrees. As I mentioned before my aim was pretty "coarse", but have always done well with the RP signals before today. BTW : the house is a two story, and Im elevated about 3 feet higher than my neighbors (lucky me).

Fascinating... tonight, with no change to aim, and no additional equip, I now have a rock solid lock at 64-65% on both 17, and 19. This afternoon, neither would hold a decent lock for more than a few seconds, but all the other RP stations were fine. I guess I have to conclude that weather somehow was the culprit today, and hope that it doesnt happen tomorrow during the SB.

Having said that, sounds like a good low noise pre-amp would be a good investment for future peace of mind. Maybe a little more accurate aim would help too..
jc

32.7 miles away, signal only in the low 60's when you lock it, and signal lock changes from day to night pretty much means you have a low signal strength problem. Without any other changes, I think a low noise pre-amp will do wonders for your DTV signal reliability. Good luck with the SB today.

BTW, from experience, I know that trying to aim an attic antenna with a magnetic field compass can be tedious. I found that also using a carpenter's protractor helps the process. However, you need to know exactly what azimuth your house was built on. My house faces on a slight SSE angle, so I had to find that angle first to find how much to compensate the aiming azimuth. I used blowups of some satellite photos available on line. Took awhile, but now I can check alignment pretty quick by placing the carpenter's protractor on a truss or post and checking what angle the moveable arm is at when parallel to an antenna's mast.

MileHighJC

02-05-06, 12:41 PM

However, you need to know exactly what azimuth your house was built on. My house faces on a slight SSE angle, so I had to find that angle first to find how much to compensate the aiming azimuth. I used blowups of some satellite photos available on line. Took awhile, but now I can check alignment pretty quick by placing the carpenter's protractor on a truss or post and checking what angle the moveable arm is at when parallel to an antenna's mast.

It really is a pain. My attic access stinks (I have other words for it that Ill not use here). My house is on a cul-de-sac, and faces north eastish. I've not done anything so sophisticated as checking the angle in the attic, just got out the FRS band radios with my son and ham handed it until I got a lock on the RP stations. At the moment the antenna isn't even mounted on a mast (I really should fix that).

Having said all that, my neighbor two doors away cant seem to get ANYTHING from his house... although he is a split level, and his attic is WELL below mine in elevation. He tried to go with an outdoor installation, and I had a funny convo with the dish installer who refused to install it for him... guy told me "you cannot get off air DTV reception in this neighborhood". I told him I had everything (but KMGH at the time)... he just looked at me blankly and said, no there was no reception here... that I must have the Denver locals on my dish (I do). After the third go around telling him I had HD OTA though my 811, and having him tell me it was impossible... I gave up. <walking away snickering>. :rolleyes:

The neighbor is a very good friend... I really need to help him try to get his antenna mounted, regardless of what his Dish installer tells him.

jp9

02-05-06, 02:32 PM

Is it possible that the low power religious station in Boulder on ch 17 is causing this problem ?

I found a reference to it in this forum on Oct 17 by oxothuk

If so, I'll donate $20 if they shut it off at 4:00

Symbios

02-05-06, 02:57 PM

I found the compass orientation given by Antennaweb to be somewhat inaccurate for me, because it actually points to my mailbox instead of my house. And my mailbox is about 40 feet to the left of my antenna.

Now, this isn't the most accurate method either, but it gets you pretty damn close. I found using Google Earth to be very helpful.

What I did was use the measure tool (in the tools menu), and draw a line from my antenna to one of the transmitters atop RP. I found out the precise distance from my antenna to the transmitter was 26.60 miles. Antennaweb said I was 50 miles away, where did it get that?? Not only is the measure tool good for measuring the distance, but it also helps you see about where the antenna should be pointed. For me, the line going to RP was about a foot away from the right corner of my roof. So, I then pointed my antenna about a foot away from the right corner of my roof. And viola! KCNC and KMGH were now starting to come in.

I might need to mess with the height a little, but it's very windy out, and I'd prefer not to fall off of my roof!

Also, in Google Earth, if you tilt the picture, you can see the hills between you and RP. Once again, not incredibly accurate, but can give you a pretty good idea. If you move your mouse over an area, you can see the exact height of it, in feet. I found out I have a hill which is 150 feet higher than me in front of my house. Not much I can do about that though.

Anyway, that's my experience.

If you want to try it, just go to www.earth.google.com to download the program. And once you have the program running, click the directions tab and put in: “370 Seventeenth Street
Denver, CO 80202” And then put your house address in. Then click the measure tool, and click the path tab in the tool. Put a dot on your house, then one on RP, and there you go.

oxothuk

02-05-06, 03:13 PM

I found the compass orientation given by Antennaweb to be somewhat inaccurate for me, because it actually points to my mailbox instead of my house. Rather than using the compass angles from antennaweb directly (do they correct for magnetic declination, or not?) I find it useful to look at the "street level view" This will give you a pretty good idea how the direction compares to the street in front of you.

As for the religious station in Boulder, I was pretty worried about them before KMGH went to Republicr. If you (a) live north of Davidson Mesa and (b) are getting solid reception on 16,18, and 19 but not on 17 then perhaps that could be a factor.

adam1115

02-05-06, 03:34 PM

RP is no good from Milliken. I put a 15' mast on my rooftop antenna, the best I get is 20-25 on signal from the downstown stations (with momentary 35-45 spikes and locks)... :(

Why can't they run higher power from downtown?

CEB II

02-05-06, 04:13 PM

CEB II

02-05-06, 04:19 PM

Rather than using the compass angles from antennaweb directly (do they correct for magnetic declination, or not?)

Yes they do correct for magnetic declination. The azimuth provided is a compass azimuth, not a map azimuth. I've compared it to my results from 2150.com, where I entered the declination correction, and the azimuths come out the same. They are compass azimuths. All of which tells you it is a PITA to translate your houses direction from a satellite photo oriented to true north, just to use as a reference for a protractor to point at RP, which you can't see from your roof. Thanks sCARE.

Symbios

02-05-06, 06:32 PM

You can get a more precise magnetic azimuth using www.2150.com/broadcast site. Of course you have to get your precise coordinates and RPs precise coordinates, plus the magnetic declination to enter. But, the answers are exact.

Hmm, when I put my coordinates in and hit enter it just shows:

"Bookmark this link to save this report
Data compiled from FCC database on 1/29/2006"

I'm pretty sure I did everything right. Is it working for anyone else?

TommyK

02-05-06, 09:42 PM

Anyone else notice that Ghost Wisperer was in SD last night? Anyone know why?
No problems with the west coast feed from KCBS. Must have been a KCNC issue.

TommyK

02-05-06, 10:41 PM

Well, that Super Bowl marks the end of NFL football on ABC.

bjcatlin

02-06-06, 12:03 AM

Well, that Super Bowl marks the end of NFL football on ABC.

Hopefully it will be on a channel that I can actually receive next year. I missed about 40% of today's game due to the extremely weak signal I get from channel 7 causing breakups every 15-20 seconds (that would last about 15 seconds). In the 3rd quarter, I just gave up and stopped watching because I had missed just about every important play. I'll watch the highlights on channel 9 tonight.

I'm thinking of just deleting channel 7 from my channel maps, as it's not worth the frustration anymore. Of course, in the mood that I'm in now, I may just toss out the HDTV set and yank down the 30 foot antenna mast that I just put up. Or maybe I'll just watch nothing other than c-band satellite (which has excellent HDTV).

Of course, the ones that I really have to thank for all of this frustration are those wonderful sCARE supporters. I guess it's just so much more important for them to not see blinking red lights at night than it is for the entire front range to get television signals.

Symbios

02-06-06, 12:24 AM

It's going to be on CBS next year, which is bad news for me. I still can't seem to pick KCNC up reliably.

But in 2008, it will be on Fox, which is great news because just about everyone can get KDVR.

Joe Redifer

02-06-06, 12:46 AM

Wow did they do away with channel 7.2? Awesome! The Superbowl looked really good for 720p, much better than 31.1 usually does. No discrete subwoofer in the 5.1 audio that I could hear (except for maybe some of the LOUD movie commercials) and the surround channels seemed to be mostly in mono (ie: no split surrounds, like Dolby Pro Logic 1 or something).

They showed ads for that Survivor spinoff called LOST that everyone has multiple orgasms over every time it is on (I've never seen it). I was confused. They showed a very fat guy. I assume he was even fatter when the show started? They should vote him off of the island. Why doesn't anyone have much facial hair if they've been "LOST" for a few seasons? Crazy.

I have an indoor antenna. Normally I can pick up channels and get between 80 and 97% strength. But any time the wind blows, the strength goes all over the place and sometimes the channel even drops out. WTF? Is this something people will ALWAYS have to deal with regarding digital television? My antennas are not blowing around. This is unacceptable.

kucharsk

02-06-06, 01:10 AM

Anyone having any luck picking up the Republic (or Lookout Mountain) stations from Louisville? I can pick them up sporadically about 10% of the time. I have a decent outside antennae pointed in the right direction with an amplifier. However along with most of Louisville I seem to have a ridge between myself and downtown. Any suggestions?I'm in Louisville and get all the RP stations just fine; in fact I get all Denver ATSC except KBDI-DT, from which I get a signal level of 0.

Symbios

02-06-06, 01:14 AM

Why doesn't anyone have much facial hair if they've been "LOST" for a few seasons? Coconut razors, of course.

They showed a very fat guy.

Again, coconuts. Lots, and lots of coconuts.

dr_mal

02-06-06, 01:36 AM

I have an indoor antenna. Normally I can pick up channels and get between 80 and 97% strength. But any time the wind blows, the strength goes all over the place and sometimes the channel even drops out. WTF? Is this something people will ALWAYS have to deal with regarding digital television? My antennas are not blowing around. This is unacceptable.
Yeah, an indoor antenna isn't going to cut it in Denver until the stations go full power. You are aware none of the stations are at full power, right?

oxothuk

02-06-06, 07:48 AM

Wow did they do away with channel 7.2? We can hope. However, I saw a comment in the Houston local thread that THEIR local affiliate had just killed the subchannels. So it might just be a "temporary" adjustment for the Super Bowl.

squidboy

02-06-06, 11:30 AM

They showed ads for that Survivor spinoff called LOST that everyone has multiple orgasms over every time it is on (I've never seen it). I was confused. They showed a very fat guy. I assume he was even fatter when the show started? They should vote him off of the island. Why doesn't anyone have much facial hair if they've been "LOST" for a few seasons? Crazy.

Too bad. This is probably the best show on TV right now. Note that it is not a reality show, but scripted drama. We are only into season 2, and the people have only been on the island for a couple of months.

You should rent the DVDs from the first season and give it a try.

BTW, the fat guy seems to have actually GAINED weight since the show started. :confused:

Symbios

02-06-06, 03:54 PM

Yeah Joe, it's not "Survivor, the drama", which I believe you said a couple weeks ago.

You really should give it a chance. It goes a lot deeper than the commercials make it seem. You have to start with season 1 though, or you'll have no idea what the hell is going on.

Joe Redifer

02-06-06, 11:04 PM

I cannot accept that there may possibly be a TV show on worth watching. I am very confused. This is 2006! All TV shows are supposed to be bad.

Yeah, an indoor antenna isn't going to cut it in Denver until the stations go full power. You are aware none of the stations are at full power, right?
Yes I am aware of this. But what is causing the dropouts, so to speak? Is the wind blowing the signal around? Is it blowing the transmitter around? Anyway I have an antenna in the attic that came with the house. It seems if I route this guy through the amplified antenna and amplify the incoming feed from the attic instead, it works much better than the indoor antenna. I didn't even know my indoor antenna was capable of amplifying an external signal. I bet the attic antenna isn't aimed at RP, though. Ahh, if only I weren't so lazy.

ktmglen

02-07-06, 12:09 AM

I emailed Bill regarding that article, and this was his reponse to that section of my questioning:

QUOTE: Laxson’s comments, which I summarized, were that the DVI and component signals are compressed and then restored. Unless you have some inside information which would drastically alter the story as it aired and which was expanded upon in our web site, I’d have to go with the experts at the video magazines, the New York Times’ story on HDTV which ran a few weeks ago, and the UE tech who is certified by the Imaging Sciences Foundation: the HDMI seems to be the consensus choice for best connection.

So I responded back with about 5 links to experts on the web that will set him straight.

Brian

Hello??? I'm assuming this reporter works out of a <b>television station</b>. There must be <b>at least one</b> technical person on staff who knows how HDTV works and knows the difference between analog component and digital component video and knows that neither one is compressed coming out of the back of a tuner or settop box???

Then again, it is KMGwhatever, maybe not.

-Glen

CEB II

02-07-06, 01:45 AM

I cannot accept that there may possibly be a TV show on worth watching. I am very confused. This is 2006! All TV shows are supposed to be bad.

Not necessarily so. Try "24", "House", "Without A Trace", or "Criminal Minds" for some excellent drama. "Lost" tends to get lost every few weeks and ends up a boring soap opera. However, February is a "sweeps" month, so all of the episodes should have some dramatic happening to promo for ratings.

CEB II

02-07-06, 02:03 AM

My third SB in HD and the best so far. Much as I hate to praise ABC and KMGH, they did an awesome job. The PQ was as good or better than that of any NFL HD game on any channel that I've seen since 12/2003, and the camera coverage was superb. Who has it next time, CBS? If so, they had better get their act together, their HD PQ looks like 480p stuff by comparison to what ABC produced yesterday. I didn't pay much attention to the sound, maybe it was flawed.

Of course the game itself was one of the poorest in quite some time. I got on-line to vote for MVP, but the referee wasn't a voteable option. Too bad the NFL can't get its best officiating for its biggest game. You knew there was going to be a problem when they noted early that the referee had the lowest replay reversal percentage for the season. Not that the officiating in the prior playoff games was anything to write home about. Sad that the regular season officiating seems to have greatly improved. You'd think they could just carry that into the playoffs and then lighten up a bit and let the teams play the game. Folks watch to see the teams play football, not the zebra's control the course and flow of the game.

CEB II

02-07-06, 02:14 AM

Hmm, when I put my coordinates in and hit enter it just shows:

"Bookmark this link to save this report
Data compiled from FCC database on 1/29/2006"

I'm pretty sure I did everything right. Is it working for anyone else?

Try this:
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/

UHForever

02-07-06, 04:01 AM

My third SB in HD and the best so far. Much as I hate to praise ABC and KMGH, they did an awesome job.

CEB II, yesterday was the second Super Bowl I've seen in HD (along with last year), and I must agree with you. The 720p that ABC did yesterday was somewhat superior to the 720p that I remember seeing on FOX in 2005. Definitely some of the best looking live 720p that I have seen so far on ABC, FOX, or ESPN. The 5.1 audio was sharp throughout the game as well, but the Halftime Shows with the Rolling Stones sounded positively awful.

Yes, I must admit KMGH did a fine job yesterday...that almost makes up for the "Monday Night Meltdown" during the Broncos Chiefs game in September...okay not really, I'm still a little bitter about that one. :o

Symbios

02-07-06, 04:39 AM

Try this:
http://www.2150.com/broadcast/

Nope, same thing. And I think that's the same link you gave me before, which might explain it.

It's very strange. Maybe I'll fire up my other computer and give it a shot on that.

oxothuk

02-07-06, 08:32 AM

Nope, same thing. And I think that's the same link you gave me before, which might explain it.

It's very strange. Maybe I'll fire up my other computer and give it a shot on that.This site can be very slow at times. Be sure you give it a couple of minutes to populate the report before you give up.

MRinDenver

02-07-06, 09:18 AM

You have to start with season 1 though, or you'll have no idea what the hell is going on.

So, I have seen every ep of Lost (wife's choice), I am a writer by profession, and I still "have no idea what the hell is going on" in this show.

It is confusing by design, and I expect the writers are laughing their a**es off as we sit staring into the screen, hoping for answers.

TheBert

02-07-06, 10:48 AM

I wouldn't konw how the Super Bowl looked in 720p because it was TO EARLY IN THE AFTERNOON FOR MY RECEIVER TO LOCK ONTO 7.1. I can't watch KMGH until about 8:00 pm!

colofan

02-07-06, 11:03 AM

The audio was bad during the game and even worst during the halftime show.

sigma957

02-07-06, 02:19 PM

They showed a very fat guy. I assume he was even fatter when the show started? They should vote him off of the island. Why doesn't anyone have much facial hair if they've been "LOST" for a few seasons? Crazy.Even though the show has been on TV for 1 1/2 seasons, only about 2 months have elapsed on the island. It was mentioned in one episdode that Hurley (the "fat guy") has lost weight. As far as shaving, the survivors have a certain amount of supplies they recovered from luggage on the plane, and recently they discovered a bunker equiped with even more supplies. This could keep them going for quite a while.

kadok

02-07-06, 04:51 PM

I have a CM4228 if anyone is interested.

CEB II

02-07-06, 06:25 PM

I have a CM4228 if anyone is interested.

Got cable, huh?

GWWaterBufalo

02-08-06, 09:38 PM

Hopefully it will be on a channel that I can actually receive next year. I missed about 40% of today's game due to the extremely weak signal I get from channel 7 causing breakups every 15-20 seconds (that would last about 15 seconds). In the 3rd quarter, I just gave up and stopped watching because I had missed just about every important play. I'll watch the highlights on channel 9 tonight.

You should have invited Judge Jackson (or whoever will be ruling on the LC tower) over for a Superbowl party.... LOL

UHForever

02-09-06, 03:53 AM

I noticed on some of the other threads on the forum that Gannett has been quite busy as of late. Their NBC affiliates in Atlanta and St. Louis have gone HD for their local news in the past couple of weeks, and apparently their NBC in Minneapolis is suppose to any day now. That would make 5 Gannett owned stations (joining KUSA here in Denver and their CBS station in Washington, WUSA) in total that are HD.

I have to believe this bodes well for a significant HD future for a Gannett owned KTVD down the road...lets hope so!

Joe Redifer

02-09-06, 04:05 AM

Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night. Here are my highly qualified impressions:

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.

-Exactly how does the Viggo Mortensen character have the same exact amount of stubble/hair length/hair cleanliness (or lack thereof) at every moment of every day, even in the flashbacks when he is in civilization with amenities such as razors, shampoo, etc. He never shaves nor does he ever grow more stubble. Ever. This lack of attention to detail actually annoys me to a great degree.

-The picture quality was very good.

-Lots of commercials. Lots.

-Dolby Digital EX sound was underwhelming. The commercials had better sound. I didn't notice anything in the surrounds over maybe 6db. Zero discrete subwoofer. Do people who mix TV shows feel that we are not ready for movie theater/DVD quality sound? Why broadcast in 5.1 if you're not going to take advantage of it? This also annoys me.

-Channel 7 is weird. Normally the sound was fine, but when they get ready to air their local commercials, the sound gets really loud, jumps back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 before finally settling on a quiet 2.0 feed, which the rest of the commercials are then aired in. When the show starts again, it is a couple of seconds before they decide that 5.1 is to resume. Pick one, fools!

-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?

-Although not near as bad as shows like CSI, I noticed that the producers HATE having a camera stationary at any time. Lots of shakey cam. I guess crappy camera work is the current trend. No skill needed.

colofan

02-09-06, 10:15 AM

Try Numbers as a program for low end. Some pretty good bass coming during the breaks in the action :)

santellavision

02-09-06, 10:27 AM

Channel 7 is weird. Normally the sound was fine, but when they get ready to air their local commercials, the sound gets really loud, jumps back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 before finally settling on a quiet 2.0 feedThis is due to the signal changing from the network 5.1 to the local spot insertion with 2.0. Your receiver has to switch it's decoding as it get a different signal. It happens on most receivers. And on my HK receiver, the 2.0 is always quite a bit louder that the 5.1 levels.

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

squidboy

02-09-06, 10:56 AM

Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night. Here are my highly qualified impressions:

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.

I can see how that would seem given that you don't know the rest of the back story. This is a very character driven show. There have probably been 5-6 episodes of Sawyer's backstory, scattered throughout the two seasons. This show has MASSIVE story arcs. Never do we get anything solved in a single episode.

Personally, I liked the episode last night. To each his own.

-Exactly how does the Viggo Mortensen character have the same exact amount of stubble/hair length/hair cleanliness (or lack thereof) at every moment of every day, even in the flashbacks when he is in civilization with amenities such as razors, shampoo, etc. He never shaves nor does he ever grow more stubble. Ever. This lack of attention to detail actually annoys me to a great degree.

I noticed that last night too. Thanks for ruining it for me Joe. ;)

-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?

What, do you prefer ugly women? :D Do any shows have ugly women as cast member these days?

squidboy

02-09-06, 10:57 AM

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

My old Denon AVR-2800 does. Although I did notice the annoying switches between loud and soft, my receiver never lost "lock" on the signal. I would assume the newer Denons are the same.

DennisMileHi

02-09-06, 11:27 AM

Well on the high recommendations of the AVS Forum Denver, CO - OTA thread participants, I watched LOST in HD Wednesday night.
Go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449662 for a thread devoted to lost. As a measure of its interest, there have been 622,800 views of that thread!

I agree the show slows down from time to time, but the overall plot and character development have my family hooked. I do think it would be hard to jump into Lost without the background. And yes the constant beard stubble has bothered me too. It is easy to nitpik the details on the show as you would find out if the read the enormous Lost thread above.

And, my Pioneer receiver switches the sound just fine. What is more annoying to me is their switching to the SD picture signal a second before the actual show segment is done.

DP1

02-09-06, 11:37 AM

There have probably been 5-6 episodes of Sawyer's backstory, scattered throughout the two seasons. This show has MASSIVE story arcs. Never do we get anything solved in a single episode.

Thats one of the reasons why I seem to have bailed on the show this year after having watched it religiously last year. I think wifey liked it more than I did but she doesnt care that we're not watching it any more either.

Actually I never really bought into the premise to begin with and then that coupled with what you just mentioned about never get anything solved made it seem too many times like I had just wasted an hour of my time.

For me the concept would've worked better as just a long movie or a mini-series. I dont really need to know the complete background of these people any more than I'd need a show like Survivor to dedicate basically whole hour shows to the backgrounds of each of the people on that show. ;)

But whatever. I'm sure I get a kick out of some shows that other people wouldnt watch for 2 minutes.. so as they say, diff strokes for diff folks.

RonAuger

02-09-06, 11:43 AM

-Dolby Digital EX sound was underwhelming.I'm sure the sound isn't EX encoded. If it shows up as such on your decoder, it's your decoder producing a rear ch.Try Numbers as a program for low end. Would that be the low end in terms of story/writing quality ;)

Ernie, I think my receiver does pretty much the same thing. But actually I haven't watched anything outside of the SB on KMGWhatever™. There were actually a few HD commercials I enjoyed watching (and the others about made me puke)

TheBert

02-09-06, 01:58 PM

Ernie, Maybe you should try one of those Ultimate Electronics cables, I hear they work like magic!

Symbios

02-09-06, 02:24 PM

Its annoying when they change to local news headlines, my receiver cuts off the first couple of words. Anybody out there have a A/V receiver that has 'instant', seemless audio switching?

When my cheapie Lenoxx HT395 looses the 5.1 stream, it pauses for a second and then switches to 2.0. It could at least go to Pro Logic mode, but it always insists on going to stereo for me. :rolleyes:

This used to happen on all stations, but I recently noticed it doesn't happen on KDVR or KWGN anymore. The transition is absolutely seamless on those two now. What could they have possibly done to make that happen and why aren't other stations doing it?

sigma957

02-09-06, 03:02 PM

-Story was extremely average for a TV show these days. Less interesting that CSI.Lost started out the season with some very strong stories, but lately they seem to be dragging a bit. The same thing happened in the middle of the first season. Hopefully they will finish the season strong.

-Were there any ugly women on the plane? Were they flying to a hot person convention? What the hell?I guess you would also have to wonder why crime investigation units, hospitals, suburban neighborhoods, or anything else you could make a TV show about are populated almost exclusively by very attractive people.

paintit77

02-09-06, 03:12 PM

The Picture Quality is Excellent on Crapcast. The sound on the other hand in 5.1 mode is extremely compressed but does on occasion bring in some sound in the rear channels.
I will be switching back to Direct TV and bring my locals in with the OTA tuner as soon as they start offering more channels and hopefully stop the HD-Lite Non-Sense.

Symbios

02-09-06, 03:42 PM

Like I said Joe. You have to start at the beginining for most of what you saw last night to make sense. I'd think the same thing you did if I had just started watching it last night too.

TommyK

02-09-06, 05:58 PM

Go here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=449662 for a thread devoted to lost. As a measure of its interest, there have been 622,800 views of that thread!
622,800 and counting...

CEB II

02-09-06, 09:13 PM

My Sony receiver, which I keep set on DD 5.1 so it does its conversion thing for non-DD 5.1 signals, does a decent job of making the transition from the DD 5.1 main program to the DD 2.0 commercials. However, there is a significant volume difference between the two. Part of that is just that it is using more power to handle the DD 5.1 signal than it does to handle the DD 2.0 signal with a given volume setting. The other part is that, despite what the FCC studies concluded, networks turn up the volume for commercials. That sucks!

I watched the Grammy's (spelled correctly?) last night and the HD and DD were fantastic. Too bad the content wasn't as good. I taped, yes taped (my DVDR is kaput; JVC has agreed to replace it after 2 repair attempts) Lost. We fell asleep trying to watch the tape. Real exciting stuff!

DP1

02-09-06, 09:36 PM

I doubt anyone can get KMGH to be totally seamless in that regard. They use old cobbled together stuff. I remember when I used to use an E* 6000 to get them OTA not only would the audio do that every time in that scenario, but it would even cause the channel banner to pop up across the screen all by itself at the same time. Like the 6000 thought it had just tuned to that channel all of a sudden.

Remember, even though "nobody" could see their signal for so long, some of the stations digital broadcasting equipment is pushing 7 years old now since they first went "on air" back in '99.

Prolly makes my old 6000 even seem state of the art. ;)

santellavision

02-09-06, 10:10 PM

LXIX

02-09-06, 11:15 PM

Ernie,

I think that it is worth noting that KCNC does not apply additional compression for sub channels. This is about as good an example of the evils of MPEG-2 as we will see. I would love to see the SDI direct feed of this event or a transfer to BD or HD-DVD.

I did think that some of the performances showed how good an ATSC broadcast (and DD) can sound. I though that "Ordinary People" (can't remember the artist) sounded great. That song sounded better than any of the "Sound Stage" DD 5.1 broadcasts that I have seen on PBS.

santellavision

02-09-06, 11:26 PM

Yeah, MPEG2 isn't the end all to compression by any means. But this was the worst, I've seen yet. My wife was watching and said, what's wrong with our projector, is it broken? Then I had to explain the whole issue...

CEB II

02-10-06, 01:03 AM

Did anybody watch the Grammy's last night? It was absolutely awful! On the high energy music / live band segments, the pixelation was horrible. With all the fast action and strobe lights, it was a true torture test for encoding. And it failed miserably. Just another reason for using full bandwith and no sub-channels.

I really liked the animated open segment with the Gorillas.

Yes, as I noted a couple of posts earlier. However, I didn't see the pixelation problems that you noted. I was using an OTA signal at about 80% strength on a Dish 811 (set to 1080i input) to a Sammy HLN507W via component cable. The PQ looked fine to me. Better than last year and much much better than two years ago.

Joe Redifer

02-10-06, 01:32 AM

This is due to the signal changing from the network 5.1 to the local spot insertion with 2.0. Your receiver has to switch it's decoding as it get a different signal.
Yeah I know, but the way KMGH did it that one time was much more odd that I'm used to hearing. It switched back and forth a couple of times before settling on 2.0 and was very weird. Usually on other stations there is just a quick second of silence during the switch and that's it. I don't understand why the local stations just can't "Pro Logic" their 2 channel audio into the 5.1 stream. It's really easy to do and not very expensive. They probably just don't know any better. They are TV stations after all, not sound mixers.

Do any shows have ugly women as cast member these days?
Maybe not any ugly cast members but I have seen some that look pretty bad on their respective shows:

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/ex1.jpg http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/ex2.jpg

Now granted both of these actresses can look mighty damn fine in real life, but the first one has a jaw that looks very man-ish on that Law and Order show, and the second one, I don't know what they did to her but pictures of her elsewhere look about 10 billion times better than she looks on the show.

rgedela

02-10-06, 05:42 PM

oxothuk

02-10-06, 05:51 PM

Since I've a built in HDTV tuner, if I subscribe to Dish Network or Direct TV will I get any HD channels without their HD receiver?

No. You won't get anything (HD or otherwise) without their box.

Same question as above but instead of Satelite what if I went with comcast? Do I get HDTV without their HD receiver?

BTW my TV has cablecard feature, does that mean I can skip the receiver box totally from comcast?

Yes, except you will still need to use their box if you want to get VOD/PPV programs, and to view their digital program guide.

Without anything else, your TV should be able to tune the local broadcast channels in HD from Comcast. If you want to get the non-broadcast channels (and have subscribed to a digital package) then you will need to call Comcast and get a CableCard to plug-in to your TV unless you want to use their box.

LXIX

02-10-06, 06:02 PM

I'm not familiar how this HDTV or Digital TV broadcasts are set up. Right now I've a I've a Philips 32PF7320A LCD TV which has a built in HDTV tuner. Since Denver is behind in full HDTV broadcasts OTA, I'm spending a ton of time trying to adjust the antenna to get HDTV. This is really frustrating for me and on top of it the wife is getted very annoyed how much time I'm spending on this new gadget of ours.

So, here are some simple questions and appreciate any feedback.

Since I've a built in HDTV tuner, if I subscribe to Dish Network or Direct TV will I get any HD channels without their HD receiver?

Same question as above but instead of Satelite what if I went with comcast? Do I get HDTV without their HD receiver?

BTW my TV has cablecard feature, does that mean I can skip the receiver box totally from comcast?
Thx
Ravi

A few questions for you.

Were do you live?

What type of home do you have? (House, Condo, Apt.)

What is the homes construction. (stucco, lathe and plaster etc.)

Now some advice.

In the Denver Metro area your indoor antenna will be very frustrating to use (only FOX and WB are transmitting a decent signal strength). Put an antenna in the attic or better yet, on the roof of your home. This can make HDTV a lot less annoying.

DirecTV and dish do not currently offer local channels in HD. They are to begin this year for us in Denver. So to get locals with a satellite receiver, you will need an attic/outdoor antenna connected to the sat receiver to receive your locals in HD.

Cable currently offers all locals that are broadcasting in HDTV (UPN and channel 12 do not broadcast any HDTV programs, but they offer a digital ATSC broadcast). If you have a cable card slot in your TV, then you can get an access card from your cable provider and forgo the box. You will not have access to on-demand services and you will need to call to order pay-per-view events.

One final option is to get a very basic cable package. In Denver, the local HDTV channels that comcast offers can be decoded by your TV's HDTV tuner without a cable box or cable card.

-Hope that this helps,
Matt

P.S. please visit this website http://www.hdtvcolorado.com and sign the petition to get our towers built so that others don't go through what you have gone through.

keithsimp

02-10-06, 06:25 PM

Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........

gakon

02-10-06, 06:27 PM

No - I missed the KUSA tour several months ago, and would like to try to go. How'd you receive it?

kcosby

02-10-06, 06:32 PM

Did anybody watch the Grammy's last night? It was absolutely awful! On the high energy music / live band segments, the pixelation was horrible. With all the fast action and strobe lights, it was a true torture test for encoding. And it failed miserably. Just another reason for using full bandwith and no sub-channels.

I really liked the animated open segment with the Gorillas.

I saw the issue with the Grammy's. Interestingly enough, I stopped on CD USA on D*, and the act performing was using strobes, and it was equally as bad as the Grammy's. When the strobes were off, the picture was fine again. I can see how strobes would be a serious test of any compression.

keithsimp

02-10-06, 06:36 PM

No - I missed the KUSA tour several months ago, and would like to try to go. How'd you receive it?

I left my email address at hdtvcolorado.com.
I don't know if this is by invitation only or not, contact them at info@hdtvcolorado.com to get more information.

dr_mal

02-10-06, 07:15 PM

Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........
Nope :(

RonAuger

02-10-06, 08:30 PM

Did anyone else get the invite to the HDTV Colorado Open House at KUSA, for next Tuesday night?
Just curious........Yep :p

This is a personal invitation for you to take your support of free over-the-air digital television to the next level.

Please join the Lake Cedar Group of stations for

2006 HDTV Denver Open House

Wednesday, February 15th
7:00 to 8:30 pm

KUSA-TV
500 Speer Boulevard
Denver, CO 80203

Important Information, Refreshments and a Tour of 9News’ HDTV facilities

Come help us bring free over-the-air HDTV to all of Front Range Colorado

Please RSVP to info@hdtvcolorado.com