I cant speak for Aurora reception, but I was receiving it as 19.1 I t is broadcast on 19 and would not remap for me

Unfortunately I missed most of the show as a meeting ran long at work. Oh well, sounds like things went well. I do think the big thing that should have been stressed with regard to the question of how many viewers rely on OTA is the FACT that OTA is freee. Any other service requires paying to see the channels. Now is (S)CARE is willing to pick up the cable or satellite tab for the 'free OTA' channels we SHOULD be getting I will be willing to listen to the argument that we don't need OTA. Until then, (S)CARE is making me pay for something I should get for free. Seems like that would be a pretty compelling argument fot them to make.

I do think the big thing that should have been stressed with regard to the question of how many viewers rely on OTA is the FACT that OTA is freee. Any other service requires paying to see the channels. Now is (S)CARE is willing to pick up the cable or satellite tab for the 'free OTA' channels we SHOULD be getting I will be willing to listen to the argument that we don't need OTA. Until then, (S)CARE is making me pay for something I should get for free. Seems like that would be a pretty compelling argument fot them to make.

I think the better thing to stress, which they did, is all the homes that rely on cable/sat for the viewing on their primary TV's still need OTA for viewing on their secondary tv's where they dont necessarily wanna pay the extra money for additional outlet/receiver rentals. They quoted a number of like 46% of homes do that.

Cause just playing the free card in general wouldnt necessarily fly since the 80+% of homes that already do have cable/sat are already totally accustomed to "paying" for their local channels anyway (again, at least on their main tv's) since analog reception has always been so flakey unless one bothered going to extreme measures.

i live at

4927 thunderbird circle
boulder, 80303

in south boulder off the 36 and table mesa

i live in an appartment on the first floor (of two). my porch faces west and i'm sort of in an alcove. i could put something on my porch, but it would have be reasonably discreet. or i could put anything (ugliness is ok :) ) inside


anyway, i'm wondering what i should get. i have an infocus 4805 as my pj. i have sdtv comcast basic on my other tv (sdtv), so the only thing i'm interested in is hdtv

suggestions on what to get and where to get it, perhaps at different price points? i'd like to go on the cheap side, but if it takes a bit of cash to get some stations, i'd consider it.

thoughts? help?

Thank you Symbios and Dr_Mal,

I am in Ottawa on business and could not call in or hear the program and I felt a little cheated. It seams as though Mike Rosen was on his best behavior today. Normally he would have run half those callers off within the first 5 minutes of their call.

I guess that he really wanted to get the other sides opinion and realized that if they would call into the show, Marv and Pete would kill 'em with kindness. I think that it word.

Since I only heard/read what you 2 posted, was there any mention if this is all for not? I mean, did they come out and say that Judge Jackson is the last word on this subject and that if he stays the injunction we will keep the old towers? Did they say what the next step is?

Thanks again,

-Matt

I wish I was home this morning. I miss all the good fun! It sounds like some the 'real' facts are starting to come out to the public.

Matt, Nobody know what Judge Jackson will do. We will have to wait until July. He can be the last word, if he sides with LCG on the facts of the tower fall issue. But then again, he might just do something politically safe and not take any responsibility and throw the whole application back the JeffCo commissions to do it all again.

NYC has always had their transmitters on the highest building in the city - why is the irradiation of other buildings not a problem there?NYC is largely flat, so for example the broadcast tower that used to be atop 1 WTC really was above everything else.

Most of the NYC stations that were located atop 1 WTC have moved to the Armstrong Tower in Alpine, NJ.

In a cruel stroke of TV station irony (and of course a situation that is simply trivial in solemnity compared to the loss of life there), WABC, WNBC, WWOR, WPIX and WNET had all finished installing their full power DTV transmitters atop 1 WTC literally just days before September 11. :eek:

i live at

4927 thunderbird circle
boulder, 80303

in south boulder off the 36 and table mesa

i live in an appartment on the first floor (of two). my porch faces west and i'm sort of in an alcove. i could put something on my porch, but it would have be reasonably discreet. or i could put anything (ugliness is ok :) ) inside


anyway, i'm wondering what i should get. i have an infocus 4805 as my pj. i have sdtv comcast basic on my other tv (sdtv), so the only thing i'm interested in is hdtv

suggestions on what to get and where to get it, perhaps at different price points? i'd like to go on the cheap side, but if it takes a bit of cash to get some stations, i'd consider it.

thoughts? help?I think you are SOL for getting broadcast HDTV from that location, except for Fox and WB. The other stations from Republic Plaza are shadowed by Davidson Mesa (that big hill between you and Louisville). I tried last year to get OTA reception for the youth room at our church (near the King Soopers on Table Mesa) and couldn't get a whiff even with a CM 4228.

But in your case the solution is easy - just get a QAM-capable tuner and hook it up to your Comcast cable. The local HD stations are unencrypted and should come in just fine - you do not have to subscribe to "digital cable".

Thank you Symbios and Dr_Mal,

I am in Ottawa on business and could not call in or hear the program and I felt a little cheated. It seams as though Mike Rosen was on his best behavior today. Normally he would have run half those callers off within the first 5 minutes of their call.

I guess that he really wanted to get the other sides opinion and realized that if they would call into the show, Marv and Pete would kill 'em with kindness. I think that it word.

Since I only heard/read what you 2 posted, was there any mention if this is all for not? I mean, did they come out and say that Judge Jackson is the last word on this subject and that if he stays the injunction we will keep the old towers? Did they say what the next step is?

Thanks again,

-Matt

Well Rosen did rip them pretty good (through tone and demeanor) even if it fell short of hanging up on them for the reason you mention.

Rosen basically boiled it down to the core on more than one occasion. The core being.. look, come 2009 LCG *is* going to be broadcasting digital television from Lookout (because of the govt mandate and cause they aint gonna move to anywhere else) so take your pick.. you want 4 towers up there doing it, or 1, it's up to you.

I think that the fact that after REPEATED requests no one from (S)CARE showed up says it all.

I think you are SOL for getting broadcast HDTV from that location, except for Fox and WB. The other stations from Republic Plaza are shadowed by Davidson Mesa (that big hill between you and Louisville). I tried last year to get OTA reception for the youth room at our church (near the King Soopers on Table Mesa) and couldn't get a whiff even with a CM 4228.

But in your case the solution is easy - just get a QAM-capable tuner and hook it up to your Comcast cable. The local HD stations are unencrypted and should come in just fine - you do not have to subscribe to "digital cable".

really. that's very interesting. i pay $13 a month for basic cable (since it's $20/month for HSI w/tv, and $30 without); i can just get a tuner box, huh? wow, thanks for letting me know of this possibility. what should i buy exactly? i'll start searching

One thing Marv mentioned last night, that I didn't think was true, was that Comcast and the satellite providers get their local signals OTA as well - that there's not a direct feed from the station to those providers. I thought that at least Comcast had a direct feed from one of the locals (I remember reading that about KMGH), if not all. Anyone know the facts here?


The HD Signals are taken off air to Comcast Cable and to Direct TV And Dish Network.. Direct TV and Dish Network are working on gathering the Local HD Broadcasts over Fiber Links to their systems. They are not operational yet, but will be soon.

really. that's very interesting. i pay $13 a month for basic cable (since it's $20/month for HSI w/tv, and $30 without); i can just get a tuner box, huh? wow, thanks for letting me know of this possibility. what should i buy exactly? i'll start searchingask around on the Denver Comcast thread, you should be able to get some recommendations there.

I just got this email from LCG (HDTVColorado). Sounds like an opportunity for all Jeffco residents to voice their opinion on getting rid of 4 towers and building ONE smaller consolidated tower.


PUBLIC FORUM

Saturday, March 25, 2006

Senator Moe Keller and Representative Gwyn Green will discuss issues of state and local concern with residents.

It is important to let your elected officials know how you feel about improving Lookout Mountain by replacing four towers with one consolidated tower.

Here’s your chance talk face to face and let lawmakers know that free over-the-air television is important to Jefferson County.

Start: 10:30 AM
Ends: 12:00 PM

Golden City Hall

Council Chambers
911 10th Street
Golden, CO 80401

(Just west of Washington Avenue in downtown Golden)

Forum troubles?

Seems like page numbering is messed up. Anyone else seeing this?

Also very short notice for the Public Fourm tomorrow. :(

just wondering if you buy one of those jvc tv's with the dila and hookup the jvs dvhs vcr can you record from the tv onto the vcr with an ota antenna or do you still need the special ota receiver that works with the jvc vcr to record 1080i/720p hdtv content onto dvhs tapes?

Forum troubles?

Seems like page numbering is messed up. Anyone else seeing this?
Yup, I reported it(BFD I know :eek: ). Earlier the last viewable page was 493, and the forum was lising 499 as the last page. Pages 494-499 contained no posts. It looks like now all is well.

It looks like some posts are missing ... (I keep it bookmarked and this post should be between 14,900 and 14,950). But it ended up being around post #14768.

How do I know? I have a per page of 50 and the current page numer should be 299.

# Matt

Yup, I reported it(BFD I know :eek: ). Earlier the last viewable page was 493, and the forum was lising 499 as the last page. Pages 494-499 contained no posts. It looks like now all is well.

I reported it too and David said it was a link issue (on our part????) Oh well - I cleared my history and things started working but that would not have fixed things for you too.

Reggie

Did anyone go to this meeting? I'd like to hear what was said!

-CJ

I just got this email from LCG (HDTVColorado). Sounds like an opportunity for all Jeffco residents to voice their opinion on getting rid of 4 towers and building ONE smaller consolidated tower.


PUBLIC FORUM

Saturday, March 25, 2006

Senator Moe Keller and Representative Gwyn Green will discuss issues of state and local concern with residents.

It is important to let your elected officials know how you feel about improving Lookout Mountain by replacing four towers with one consolidated tower.

Here’s your chance talk face to face and let lawmakers know that free over-the-air television is important to Jefferson County.

Start: 10:30 AM
Ends: 12:00 PM

Golden City Hall

Council Chambers
911 10th Street
Golden, CO 80401

(Just west of Washington Avenue in downtown Golden)

I wonder if a lot of folks are still stuck on page 499?

I guess nobody went to the Golden meeting. I was tied up all day yesterday, otherwise I would have gone. I emailed Marv, I'll let you all know what he said happened.

Whoopsie with Desperate Housewives - the sound went out of sync about 30 minutes in and KMGH dropped the HD feed for SD when they came back from the first break after they lost A/V sync…

This page shows up for me as 493, is that right?

493, 494... whatever it takes.

493, 494... whatever it takes.
It's page 793 for me

493 here.

It's page 793 for meYeah, it feels more 793! ;)

I don't know if anyone posted on this, but I think 19.1 is back up after a long hiatus. At least I was getting it over the weekend.

OK, here is one that the old-timers will appreciate. Since moving into a rental house I have twice politely asked the owners (first the wife, then the husband) if they would mind me putting up a rooftop antenna while I am staying here. An emphatic NO was the response both times.

Undaunted, I dug around in my pile of old stuff and found my old trusty RS DBT antenna! Since it still had a balun on it it took me about 30 seconds to hook it up to my E* 811.

The results? I get ALL of the Dnever DTV stations (2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12(x3), 25, 31, and 50) at greater than 75%, most of them above 90%. I do have to get up and swivel it between Lookout and RP when I change the channel, but the trusty old DBT comes through yet again! The amazing part is that it is just sitting on top of my left speaker aimed through a brick wall!

BTW since someone is going to ask; the DBT (double bow-tie) has not been carrried by RS for at least 3 years and the only place you might find one is eBay or in someones garage.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lu_max/AVS/RS_DBT.JPG

Does the page number you are on have some relationship to the "number of posts per page" display mode you set in your user cp profile? Most probably just stay with "default".

Yeah, it feels more 793! ;)
Ernie

Would that be 793 BC or 793 AD? :D

FWIW I also understand that the City of Golden and (S)CARE may combine to fund a study to investigate the new theory that the earth is round an rotates around the sun. Apparently the (S)CARE folks still contend the earth rotates around their homes on Lookout Mountain. They expect the study to be completed in about 500 years. Until then, their official position remains that they are the center of the universe.

As for the page thing, I was reading 499 for a while last week but am now back to 493.

Also (yes, I know it is OT), D* installed my new MPEG4 receivers last week along with my new pole and dish. For those in similar situations, they DID allow me to keep my two older HD receivers and I was told when I set up the new boxes that I can activate the two older HD boxes for my older SD tv sets. By setting the outputs to 480i, I can then at least watch the downrezzed versions of HDNet etc. on those sets as well. AFAIK, though, the Denver HD locals are not activated in MPEG4 yet, I was told it would be in April.

Back to the main topic, "Will there ever be full power OTA HD in Denver prior to 2009?

Would that be 793 BC or 793 AD? :DSo, that would then be BCBefore CARE

So, that would then be Before Carney or After Deb.
:D
Something along those lines I suspect.

Sunday's "Cold Case" Audio on KCNC Was Drop-Out City

Does anybody have an idea about what happened at KCNC on Sunday? Adding all the sound dropouts together, I figure a good five minutes of the sound was gone.

KCNC and CBS need to do a better job than that. And during the NCAA tourney, much the same all weekend.

I know HD is still quasi-experimental, but sheesh.

Sunday's "Cold Case" Audio on KCNC Was Drop-Out City

Does anybody have an idea about what happened at KCNC on Sunday? Adding all the sound dropouts together, I figure a good five minutes of the sound was gone.

KCNC and CBS need to do a better job than that. And during the NCAA tourney, much the same all weekend.

I know HD is still quasi-experimental, but sheesh.
I experienced the same thing, but figured it was an issue with my antenna in the wind or something.

And I got over giving the stations "quasi-experimental" loopholes years ago. There is no excuse for stations messing up their digital channel anymore. (Ahem, KWGN you listening? Smallville's back this week and Gilmore Girls next week - I'll be watching...)

OK, here is one that the old-timers will appreciate. Since moving into a rental house I have twice politely asked the owners (first the wife, then the husband) if they would mind me putting up a rooftop antenna while I am staying here. An emphatic NO was the response both times.

Undaunted, I dug around in my pile of old stuff and found my old trusty RS DBT antenna! Since it still had a balun on it it took me about 30 seconds to hook it up to my E* 811.

The results? I get ALL of the Dnever DTV stations (2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12(x3), 25, 31, and 50) at greater than 75%, most of them above 90%. I do have to get up and swivel it between Lookout and RP when I change the channel, but the trusty old DBT comes through yet again! The amazing part is that it is just sitting on top of my left speaker aimed through a brick wall!

BTW since someone is going to ask; the DBT (double bow-tie) has not been carrried by RS for at least 3 years and the only place you might find one is eBay or in someones garage.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lu_max/AVS/RS_DBT.JPG

Love that antenna - looks like something that would be right at home in the 50s - or some scifi movie of that era :)

Reggie

OK, here is one that the old-timers will appreciate. Since moving into a rental house I have twice politely asked the owners (first the wife, then the husband) if they would mind me putting up a rooftop antenna while I am staying here. An emphatic NO was the response both times.

Undaunted, I dug around in my pile of old stuff and found my old trusty RS DBT antenna! Since it still had a balun on it it took me about 30 seconds to hook it up to my E* 811.

The results? I get ALL of the Dnever DTV stations (2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12(x3), 25, 31, and 50) at greater than 75%, most of them above 90%. I do have to get up and swivel it between Lookout and RP when I change the channel, but the trusty old DBT comes through yet again! The amazing part is that it is just sitting on top of my left speaker aimed through a brick wall!

BTW since someone is going to ask; the DBT (double bow-tie) has not been carrried by RS for at least 3 years and the only place you might find one is eBay or in someones garage.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lu_max/AVS/RS_DBT.JPG

And that's exactly what I'm using! I'm getting all of the above channels except 12/38 in Lafayette since I'm somewhat shadowed and I'll have to get on the roof to pick it up.

Great little antenna.

So, a quick Best Buy/Magnolia story.

I went in to buy a LCD display for upstairs (Not to replace my HT Projection system) And I'm chattin' with the guy of the HT dept. (Not sure if he was the manager, but his lapel tag says Pro 1 under his name, whatever that means) I play dumb (Not that hard for me) and I ask him casually about OTA HD. "So, what can I receive in HD"? He says "Do you have cable or a satellite?" I say no. "Then you can't get much." I ask why not? "Because you must have cable or satellite." I say, "I thought there was broadcast HD available?" He said they're fighting these people on Lookout about a tower.

So, I say, "Yeah, I heard that, but I thought they were still broadcasting some HD locally?" He says... "Some stations are only broadcasting from their rooftops." I said really, So, I can't get them around here." (Denver West store) He said, "no, you shoud get a satellite." I say, "OK, then, then I can get the local stations in HD? He says, Well no, they aren't on Satellite yet, maybe later this year." Then I ask the final question, "When is this tower going to be built. He said... It's going to be built next year." I started laughing.

These salespeople really have to be trained better. Especially if they are selling themselves as Magnolia HT, the high-end experts. It's really sad.

P.S. Then, there was this older couple about 70 y/o (nothing against older people - my father has a really nice HD system in his home as is sharp as a tack) standing next to me talking to another sales guy. The couple had complete 'Deer-in-the-headlights' looks on their faces while he was trying to sell them on HDMI vs. component and HDCP copy protection etc. The worst part was, he was confused himself and he was trying to explain it to them!

So, did you buy satellite from him?

They get a commission on that, ya know. That's why stores will never tell you the truth about OTA.

I was just messin' with him. I already have E*. I just wanted to see if they were 'up' on what is happening in our area. Obviously not!

So, did you buy satellite from him?

They get a commission on that, ya know. That's why stores will never tell you the truth about OTA.

Magnolia Home Theater employees (the ones in the BB stores) do not make a commission. They may need to meet certain sales goals to stay employed but there is no commission for satellite sales.

The reality is that with the changes that D* has made by going lease only, the commissions/labor/finders fees paid are not as rich as they used to be. Antennas and the labor they can get for the install is a very profitable sale. Most consumers DO NOT shop around for a great deal on an antenna. You can easily sell a $50 to $100 antenna at great margin and attach $80 to $150 in labor to install it. Chaching!!!

This is an example of someone who is not selling smarter. If he only knew the facts, he could be attaching $130 to $250 in antenna/labor to every HD sale he makes, and the customer will love the results (if the antenna is properly installed).


-Matt

I was playing around with my parents' Dish 921 last night and did a re-scan of DTV stations. Their receiver found 9-3 (9web), 6-100 and 6-102. All of these channels were dark, but they were there and coming in as strong as the primary channels. So I went home and re-scanned my H20.

None of those came up. Any ideas on 1) What these channels are, and 2) Why isn't my H20 getting them?

All of these channels were dark, but they were there and coming in as strong as the primary channels. Signal strength only makes sense as an attribute of the entire RF channel and the datastream it contains. So of course all the subchannels (the main program as well as junk like WeatherPlus) will be equally strong.

As for 9-3, I remember them playing around with that around a year ago, but haven't seen it recently. I wonder if her Dish receiver still has the definition for it in memory?

None of those came up. Any ideas on 1) What these channels are, and 2) Why isn't my H20 getting them?
I saw them too. They are being labeled by my MITS as:
006.100UpdatTV
006.101UpdatTV

The last week has been interesting as KDVR has been coming in on a regular basis. If it was just for a few hours or days I would attribute it to 'atmospheric' 'help'. But it has been over a week now. Hmmm. :confused:

Earlier this week I was also able to view KFCT for a little while. That is a first, and again that had to be 'atmospheric/tropospheric' assistance.
....jc

Those extra channels are probably scrambled things....9Web is probably some experimental internet data service, and the 6.100 and 6.101 (which match the recommended numbering system for data channels, i.e.: above .100) are likely a program guide service, maybe like TV Guide On-Screen, but for DTV.

With the USDTV scrambled (pay) channels in SLC, we get blank screens with some PSIP info, too.

Come to think of it, "UpdaTV" might be some sort of News (Update) On-Demand Service.

That's why stores will never tell you the truth about OTA.Or what page you should be on ;)

Ernie, did you ever hear from Marv on how the Golden public forum went last Saturday?

Yes today. Here's what he had to say.Ernie, as it turns out, not much to report. No opponents showed up. A couple of our supporters were there and spoke to Gwyn Green and Moe Keller, the legislators who hosted the event. Green and Keller were largely
noncommittal.Typical politicians.

You guys are awesome. I knew I wouldn't have to wait too long until someone could answer that question!

I searched the forum, but didn't find a post on this, so thought I would ask: Has Channel 2-1 gone off the air? I just did a re-scan and can't find it any longer. I think it was remapped from 34, but am not even real sure about that.

I noticed 2.1 has been missing the past few days. I wasn't interested in watching anything in particular on it so I thought while channel surfing that it was because I might need to rotate my antenna but maybe not since 31.1 is coming in OK without pointing more towards Lookout. I didn't try a re-scan either.

Those extra channels are probably scrambled things....9Web is probably some experimental internet data service, and the 6.100 and 6.101 (which match the recommended numbering system for data channels, i.e.: above .100) are likely a program guide service, maybe like TV Guide On-Screen, but for DTV.Could this possibly be related to MovieBeam - although I thought I read that they were going to insert data the analog KRMA for that.

2-1 is fine for me right now. And yes, it's on channel 34-1, remapped on any modern receiver to 2-1.

.......And yes, it's on channel 34-1, remapped on any modern receiver to 2-1.
So I can check my own boxes, can you tell me which HD receivers would be considered "non-modern" units?
;)

So I can check my own boxes, can you tell me which HD receivers would be considered "non-modern" units?
;)
Heh...how about the ol' RCA DTC-100? I don't know if it did remapping...

Yes it does... at least the version integrated into my 38" RCA does. But you can turn it off..

Phil P.

OK, here is one that the old-timers will appreciate. Since moving into a rental house I have twice politely asked the owners (first the wife, then the husband) if they would mind me putting up a rooftop antenna while I am staying here. An emphatic NO was the response both times.

Undaunted, I dug around in my pile of old stuff and found my old trusty RS DBT antenna! Since it still had a balun on it it took me about 30 seconds to hook it up to my E* 811.

The results? I get ALL of the Dnever DTV stations (2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12(x3), 25, 31, and 50) at greater than 75%, most of them above 90%. I do have to get up and swivel it between Lookout and RP when I change the channel, but the trusty old DBT comes through yet again! The amazing part is that it is just sitting on top of my left speaker aimed through a brick wall!

BTW since someone is going to ask; the DBT (double bow-tie) has not been carrried by RS for at least 3 years and the only place you might find one is eBay or in someones garage.

http://home.earthlink.net/~lu_max/AVS/RS_DBT.JPG

You know, I haven't seen one of those since the one my dad had on top of our 21" console B&W TV in 1965 to receive Chicago's early UHF channels.

Yes today. Here's what he had to say.Typical politicians.

Hmmm, Let's see now, no opposition on Mike Rosen last week and no opposition at this past weekend's town hall meeting in Golden..... Has sCARE and the Golden city officials been shamed into hiding? I guess they're not comfortable debating the issues in public unless it's a meeting they control. Kind of also reminds me of the defense lawyer who won't let his/her client testify because they know they're guilty and it would be better just to not say anything, because they can't win.

Hmmm, Let's see now, no opposition on Mike Rosen last week and no opposition at this past weekend's town hall meeting in Golden..... Has sCARE and the Golden city officials been shamed into hiding?sCARE thinks it's over and they won. (Or at least they believe that) So, they don't have to make ass's out themselves in public any more than they have to. Golden, from my conversations with them, also believe they are winners. As they believe the stations cannot use their existing towers for digital. I think we're in sort of a 'lull'. Maybe things will heat-up when Judge Jackson rules late this summer.

Maybe things will heat-up when Judge Jackson rules late this summer.

Don't you mean IF he rules? My glass is always half-empty, so I have little confidence that anything contstructive will come out of his ruling. Part of it is that he schedules hearings 6-8 months out in advance - which is unacceptable in my opinion. I know courts are busy, but c'mon . . . .

He has to rule on something. As many/most of us think, he will just play a good little political scapegoat and throw the entire thing back to the JeffCo commissioners. And LCG will not want to throw more money away as we all know the new JeffCo Commissioners are anti-tower and just wait 'til the change-out in '09.

Which by the way, is actually longer than it would take to go through all the public hearings again and including the time to actually build the darn tower. Judge Jackson by my account is the last chance. His Yes vote, sCARE loses and the tower construction begins, No, it's '09.

He has to rule on something. As many/most of us think, he will just play a good little political scapegoat and throw the entire thing back to the JeffCo commissioners. And LCG will not want to throw more money away as we all know the new JeffCo Commissioners are anti-tower and just wait 'til the change-out in '09.

Which by the way, is actually longer than it would take to go through all the public hearings again and including the time to actually build the darn tower. Judge Jackson by my account is the last chance. His Yes vote, sCARE loses and the tower construction begins, No, it's '09.
No matter which way he rules, dollars to donuts [mmm...donuts.... :D] the loser will appeal.

So I can check my own boxes, can you tell me which HD receivers would be considered "non-modern" units?
;)All of yours! Except for the new puppies you got D* to give you!

Heh...how about the ol' RCA DTC-100? I don't know if it did remapping... Yes it does... at least the version integrated into my 38" RCA does. But you can turn it off..

Phil P.But on mine, it often misses a channels remap during a ch. scan. I often find one channel still on it's broadcast freq. after scanning.


I wish I knew definitively what JJ was ruliing on in July. It was supposed to be whether or not the guy wire issue was sufficiently covered in the rezoning proceedings of the the previous board. And he sent that back to the current board. The current board voted "No" on that. But does that mean JJ can completely overturn the rezoning approval given by the previous board? Or can it be remanded back to the current board? (BTW these are rhetorical questions!)

I wish I knew definitively what JJ was ruliing on in July. It was supposed to be whether or not the guy wire issue was sufficiently covered in the rezoning proceedings of the the previous board. And he sent that back to the current board. The current board voted "No" on that. But does that mean JJ can completely overturn the rezoning approval given by the previous board? Or can it be remanded back to the current board? (BTW these are rhetorical questions!)
I know you said it was rhetorical...
From what I understand, sCARE/Boycott Golden brought a suit against JeffCo for violating proper procedures when the BCC approved the land rezoning for the tower.

As part of JJ's careful and studious examination of the facts, he sent the case back to the BCC for them to consider only one issue - the issue of guy wires. The (still old, at this point) BCC reaffirmed their decision, even taking into account all the information known to mankind about guy wires.

A year later, JJ sent the case back to the BCC for them to consider only one issue - the issue of multiple tower failure. A new BCC decided that no, the old BCC didn't properly consider the issue of multiple tower failure (even though no structures outside of LCG's ownership/control could possibly be impacted).

So JJ now has to decide what to do about this sCARE/Boycott Golden lawsuit against JeffCo, given that the new BCC thinks the old BCC didn't properly evaluate the risk (to LCG) of multiple tower failure.

All of yours! Except for the new puppies you got D* to give you!

But on mine, it often misses a channels remap during a ch. scan. I often find one channel still on it's broadcast freq. after scanning.
....................SIZE]
It is pretty hard for me to think of the MPEG2 HD receivers (one is two years old, the other I just bought last summer) as not being "modern". (I do have three receivers that are over 5 years old now, but they are all for C-Band and 'foreign' services, even the OTA sections in two of those guys map the channels correctly when they are hooked up). I know state of the art changes in electronics, but in 9 months??? At any rate I have never seen a problem mapping on either of the two. The new ones I got from D* seem to be working just fine with remapping as well.
:)

As for JJ, given the way courts work, he could also decide he needs more time to study the situation and give a stay for another 6 months or a year until he can review the proceedings. In the meantime, I agree with those that think that somehow, the folks at (S)CARE and Golden seem to think they have won. I am not sure the public will agree with that after another six months of TV adds etc. and as more and more people purchase new HD sets and then ask, where are the local channels. Hopefully there will be enough of those new folks to offset some of us old timers who have pretty much 'jumped ship' on the entire process and gone in other directions. :mad:

Just noticed the letter from Marv Rockford in the letters to the editor in the Denver Post today. I'm surprised no one else noticed this already.

Marv Rockford letter to editor 3/31/06 (http://www.denverpost.com/letters)

He really takes the City of Golden preservation board to the woodshed. I wonder if the LCG is that afraid of what might happen, or just fed up with the lies and distortions being used against them. I guess only time will tell.

(The link I posted will only work today, you will have to search under the date to read the letter in the future)

The last I heard from LCG. They were (LCG/JeffCo) in 'talks' with the Judge. So, there should not be any further examining by him of the issue. As we all know, the tower is still on the books as 'approved'. (Regardless of what sCARE has posted on their site) So, my guess is JJ can say, the Tower fall issue was addressed by and LCG met it's criteria (which they did). Thus, he could over-ride the Commissioners decision. Not likely. As stated above, I truly believe he will just pass the buck.

.......... I truly believe he will just pass the buck.
Stalling a ruling for about 6 months to a year would pretty much do that. As someone mentioned, the inevitable appeals to any of his rulings would, by that time, pretty much take it past the 2009 date and leave the stations with the only solution, change the existing transmissions from NTSC to ATSC. Frankly, knowing that the two sides are both talking to JJ doesn't give me much of a warm fuzzy. There isn't a lot of 'middle ground' that I can see. The towers either go up or not.

Just noticed the letter from Marv Rockford in the letters to the editor in the Denver Post today. Another well-worded statement of fact to the public by Marv. I just wonder why he chose to state the following, since it is not exactly true: Golden's actions have helped to make Denver the only major city in the country not currently broadcasting in digital.

Another well-worded statement of fact to the public by Marv. I just wonder why he chose to state the following, since it is not exactly true:

Point well taken. I think we know what he wants to imply without actually telling the 'whole truth'. A few 'qualifiers' would help, like 'full power', major networks, etc. Both sides are shameless in this deal, just one is worse than the other (I won't say which is which, you decide).

Just noticed the letter from Marv Rockford in the letters to the editor in the Denver Post today. I'm surprised no one else noticed this already.

Marv Rockford letter to editor 3/31/06 (http://www.denverpost.com/letters)

He really takes the City of Golden preservation board to the woodshed. I wonder if the LCG is that afraid of what might happen, or just fed up with the lies and distortions being used against them. I guess only time will tell.

(The link I posted will only work today, you will have to search under the date to read the letter in the future)

He also answered another question we've all had. What happens on 2/17/09 if they can't get the new consolidated broadcast antenna? Rockford writes that the current antennas will stay where they are and they will broadcast digitally from them.

I detect a major battle brewing in federal court.

The citizens of Golden had better be prepared to pay millions to lose this suit, as it may go all the way to the US Supreme Court.

SCOTUS has already ruled that a government can take land from A and give it to B for "economic improvement" in that government's boundaries. This suit will likely test if a government can do the reverse... take an economically improved property, which is not currently within its boundaries, and return it to wilderness.

Of course, I don't believe for a second this is what Golden is doing. I have a sneaking suspicion they will take the land and, within eight years, sell it to an undisclosed developer. Do I have evidence? No. But it would be interesting to see who is contributing money to the campaigns of these officials in Golden and Jeffco. My bet is it's developers. You won't find the company's name(s) if you look at a candidate's contributors list. You will find things like "Friends for a Better Golden PAC" or "Realtors for a Stronger Colorado PAC", with a contributors list that may just include some well known names in Golden. Not saying they will. Just saying they might.

If you guys want to know who pulls the strings in Golden, look no further than the man who owns the entire west end of Colfax Ave from Denver West to I-70. And then there's the white haired fellow who, a little farther down the road, with our governor and money from his beer empire, created the Trailhead Group for the purpose of robo-calling voters to tell lies about other people running for public office. It will be interesting if Trailhead suddenly gets active in this issue.

It would be really interesting to hear how Coors and Stevinson feel about the new tower, and whether or not they'd love to get their hands on that land.

The land that LCG owns and is proposing to build the consolidation tower is not in Golden city limits. That's quite a bit different than that Connecticut land-grab case. In that case, the city owned the land inside it's city boundries.

And the current tower land, is zoned LEGAL, Non-conforming. And by Senate Bill 3-251 (http://santellaproductions.com/dtv/SB251.pdf) (Enacted 6/6/2003) JeffCo cannot tell them to move. Before this bill, JeffCo could have given them a date to remove all towers. (They goofed big time on that one!)

The only ligitimate court fight will be the 'Same-service' issue. And JeffCo has pretty much lost that one (even if it were to go to court). JeffCo is allowing three radio stations to broadcast both analog & digital radio without fining them or using a court order to stop them. JeffCo is in fact, allowing them to broadcast same-service, without re-zoning for digital. The longer JeffCo does nothing to halt this, the more they screw their case for TV not being same-service.

Unbelievable!!!!! Just got news from LCG.
JeffCo and LCG have come to an agreement on the tower issue!!!

News from a Judge Jackson, closed-door meeting on Friday is they have all agreeded to the consolidation tower, but it will be a compromise. LCG has agreed to build a similar tower to the one approved for Mt. Morrision. (Remember the horizontal tower design the county approved) So, it won't be exactly the way LCG wanted, but will still serve the 95% or so of the existing FCC required viewer base.

It will replace all the existing LCG towers (4, 7, 9, 9 radar & 20) They can start design immediately and will not have to go through more Public hearings - WooRay!

sCARE adamantly opposed the negociation, but the city realized this was the best of the choices. Compromise or fight a losing battle over the 'same-service' issue.

Congratulations to LCGII !!!!!

Oh, you are a cruel man...

:)

You know, Ernie...
An April Fool's prank has to be just a LITTLE bit believable for it to work... :D

The meeting could not have been on Friday. Had to be today, 4/1.

Unbelievable!!!!! Just got news from LCG.
JeffCo and LCG have come to an agreement on the tower issue!!!

News from a Judge Jackson, closed-door meeting on Friday is they have all agreeded to the consolidation tower, but it will be a compromise. LCG has agreed to build a similar tower to the one approved for Mt. Morrision. (Remember the horizontal tower design the county approved) So, it won't be exactly the way LCG wanted, but will still serve the 95% or so of the existing FCC required viewer base.

It will replace all the existing LCG towers (4, 7, 9, 9 radar & 20) They can start design immediately and will not have to go through more Public hearings - WooRay!

sCARE adamantly opposed the negociation, but the city realized this was the best of the choices. Compromise or fight a losing battle over the 'same-service' issue.

Congratulations to LCGII !!!!!

Sorry Ernie, but some things are just so outlandish that they just don't work as an April Fools joke, nice try though. The first clue it was a joke was when you said they had reached a compromise.

:)

First of all, my apologies for straying off topic here, please don't revoke my membership.

Just thought I would put out a new reminder that the HDNet tour is still scheduled for April 17 with an alternate date of April 24.


**SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS****

I promised a head count as close as possible for the HDNet folks so please let me know in the thread or by PM if you will be able to be at the tour. The current head count is in the range of 26 to 28 give or take a few. I have taken down names from your prior posts and PM's so if you have already replied there is no need to do it again unless your plans have changed. This notice is just a reminder to those who were waiting to check their schedule. (BTW, unlike Ernie's post, this is NOT an April Fools joke!)

Ground Rules Reminder
This is NOT a first come first serve event, so wait to commit until you are sure you will be there. Late RSVP's will still be accepted. No, you will not be charged with a crime if you have to back out at the last minute (although you may be required to read and report on all Jeffco hearing minutes from the past 5 years).

As a courtesy to the HDNet people we owe them a fairly accurate head count. As I have said before, any AVSforum member in the area is welcome, although if the head count gets too large we may have to plan a second night. If you want to bring a friend or family member, that is allowed, but lets try to keep it under control (i.e. don't invite 15 friends). For now, I will assume we will split into groups to fit in the various rooms. FWIW, so far no one has volunteered to escort Jetlag in order to keep him out of trouble......:eek:

***DIRECTIONS****

HDNet information can be found at
HDNet web page and address (http://hd.net/factsheet.html)

A map to the location (Colorado Studios) is located at:

Colorado Studios (http://www.coloradostudios.com/)

where you will click on "map"

Additional driving directions (once you have the address) can also be found at:

Mapquest Directions (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/)


******

..................

The only ligitimate court fight will be the 'Same-service' issue. And JeffCo has pretty much lost that one (even if it were to go to court). JeffCo is allowing three radio stations to broadcast both analog & digital radio without fining them or using a court order to stop them. JeffCo is in fact, allowing them to broadcast same-service, without re-zoning for digital. The longer JeffCo does nothing to halt this, the more they screw their case for TV not being same-service.

On the subject of the 'same service' issue, I suspect by waiting until the 2009 date and not providing dual telecasts the LCG has an airtight case for transitioning to digital from analog and calling it the same service since the transmission format change is 'mandated' by the FCC. Their court argument is simply, "Your honor, the format of our service was changed at the direction of the FCC, we do not have the option of broadcasting in the old format." Game, set, match! I think the only argument possible by the Gol'darn and (S)CARE folks would be if both services were being broadcast from the same tower. They could try to argue it was an additional service because there would be two broadcasts though. A mute point in 2009. For my money, the FCC mandate on the transition date simply trumps any argument about it not being the same service. I don't think the fact they have allowed FM digital services would even enter into the equation although that too bolsters the LCG case.

Unbelievable!!!!! Just got news from LCG.
JeffCo and LCG have come to an agreement on the tower issue!!!

News from a Judge Jackson, closed-door meeting on Friday is they have all agreeded to the consolidation tower, but it will be a compromise. LCG has agreed to build a similar tower to the one approved for Mt. Morrision. (Remember the horizontal tower design the county approved) So, it won't be exactly the way LCG wanted, but will still serve the 95% or so of the existing FCC required viewer base.
[/SIZE]

April Fools?

I understand that this case doesn't quite fit the Connecticut takings ruling, but the truth is no law is incontestable. We have the Poundstone Amendment to prevent flagpole annexation in Colorado, but that doesn't mean municipalities still don't try to walk all over it. I live near Kipling and Belleview. Try to figure out which fire department responds when there is a fire or car accident at Wadsworth and Belleview.

Unbelievable!!!!! Just got news from LCG.
JeffCo and LCG have come to an agreement on the tower issue!!!

News from a Judge Jackson, closed-door meeting on Friday is they have all agreeded to the consolidation tower, but it will be a compromise. LCG has agreed to build a similar tower to the one approved for Mt. Morrision. (Remember the horizontal tower design the county approved) So, it won't be exactly the way LCG wanted, but will still serve the 95% or so of the existing FCC required viewer base.

It will replace all the existing LCG towers (4, 7, 9, 9 radar & 20) They can start design immediately and will not have to go through more Public hearings - WooRay!

sCARE adamantly opposed the negociation, but the city realized this was the best of the choices. Compromise or fight a losing battle over the 'same-service' issue.

Congratulations to LCGII !!!!!

Saturday night at the Eagles game they announced Peter Forsberg was coming back to the AVs in time for the playoffs - Yeah right!

Yeah... I was there and I bought it. Until they said that the Avs were shipping 4 first round draft choices to Philly for him.

Most of the Bud Center yelled for joy - until the punchline... April Fools!

OT: Did you guys see the Wagner Rents animation on the south Jumbotron? I just made that for the playoffs. It's some Caterpillar tractors that move around and drop in the Eagles logo.

I did notice that Ernie. I remember you mentioning some ads you made for them last year, so I keep my eye on it. Nice job!

Glad to see we finally have kept this thread ON TOPIC for the last 24 hours.
:D

For those of you who missed it, absolutely NOTHING has happened, much like the previous 5 years.

You want to talk about nothing?

http://67.19.74.172/showthread.php?t=43993

Anyone else having some issues with KCNC (35) over the past 48 hours? I'm having a lot of drop outs, and it's normally rock solid for me. My fear is that I may have some emerging leaf issues in my neighborhood. Before I mess with my antenna, I wanted to see if anyone else was having recent problems, since I'm not yet totally convinced the problem is on my end. Hopefully I'll get CSI tonight.

By the way, as I was checking my KCNC-DT signal this afternoon before I left home, I noticed they were showing an HD feed of USA Networks coverage of the Masters Golf Tournament. (Of course their analog side was broadcasting normal CBS soap operas) It looks good, but I'm curious as to how a CBS owned affiliate (KCNC) is showing HD coverage from a cable network that is NOT even available in HD but IS owned by NBC, not CBS? Very Strange.

...curious as to how a CBS owned affiliate (KCNC) is showing HD coverage from a cable network that is NOT even available in HD but IS owned by NBC, not CBS? Very Strange.
Indeed, very odd... :confused:

Well I hope your right about KCNC, I just bought a new Sammy 42"DLP for the basement, I had to add another splitter in the antenna line and I can only get 2-1, and 31-1 on the Sammy, The Sony has now lost 4-1 and 7-1. This sucks. My VIP622 is coming on next Tuesday but I still want to run all of my locals off OTA. Has anyone ever tried running a separate RG6 line from the antenna to each TV with no splitters. I have tried pre amps in the past only to loose everything. I have three TV's that I want OTA so could I run three cables and what is the proper way to ground them? Now I have one RG6 cable run through a grounding block and two splitters.

I also had a similar experience as Ernie did, I asked the CC High end sales guy how to get HDTV and he said I have to live close to Lookout Mtn. or get Direct TV. He also said "they" are supposed to build a tower for HDTV soon.

It is hard to believe these guys don't know what it is going on. Then again, The aspect ratio was set extra strech mode on numerous sets in the store.

Thanks for any help.

I know the whole D* HD-Lite issue has been beaten to death around these parts, but the comparison between ch 81 or 74 with KCNC 4-1 for the Masters is like night and day. The local OTA broadcast is noticeably crisper and more saturated than the satellite feeds. I sure hope that the MPEG-4 locals from D* that are due to hit Denver in the next 6 or 7 weeks look better than the overly compressed stuff in the HD package from D*.

TheBert- I believe you will have much better luck with direct feeds from your antenna to each TV location. I was able to reacquire signals that I lost from adding a splitter to my antenna feed after adding additional direct runs.

...curious as to how a CBS owned affiliate (KCNC) is showing HD coverage from a cable network that is NOT even available in HD but IS owned by NBC, not CBS? Very Strange.

Hey, UHForever. Found a bit of info on this.
CBS Sports will broadcast the 2006 Masters on the CBS Television HD Network on Thursday, April 6 and Friday, April 7 (4:00-7:00 PM, ET, each day) and Saturday, April 8 (3:30-7:00 PM, ET) and Sunday, April 9 (2:30-7:00 PM, ET) live from Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Ga. The third and final rounds of the Masters will be broadcast simultaneously in standard definition by CBS Sports on the analog CBS Television Network.

CBS will also provide the Thursday/Friday coverage in standard definition for USA Networks and in high definition for UHD. CBS will offer the Thursday/Friday HD feed to all CBS affiliates and encourage them to take it, but the choice is up to them. All CBS O&Os will carry all four days in HD. For DBS subs, HD coverage will be on both WCBS & KCBS all four days, and for those who can get it, Universal HD on Thursday and Friday.

This of course includes KCNC.

I called them today to get a more firm date for the Denver market to get HD locals over the dish, and the woman told me we are scheduled for June.

June??? That may be right, but I gotta feeling if you called again and got someone else they would tell you that they will be ready next week. Those CSR's don't seem to get it right very often.

...Has anyone ever tried running a separate RG6 line from the antenna to each TV with no splitters. I have tried pre amps in the past only to loose everything. I have three TV's that I want OTA so could I run three cables and what is the proper way to ground them? Now I have one RG6 cable run through a grounding block and two splitters.
Ok, after the grounding block, assuming the cable goes directly indoors, no further grounding is needed. Now, if after the splitter, the cables run outside the house, they really should be grounded at their entry into the house(and all of the grounds tied together and to the house ground.). Fun...

Ideally, your main lead would go through the grounding block and into the house. Prior to any connections, it would be connected to an amplifier(not preamp), and all of the TV's are fed from that. In my case the feed(from outside) is connected to to a video dist panel, and every outlet in the house has the signal.
....jc

I called them today to get a more firm date for the Denver market to get HD locals over the dish, and the woman told me we are scheduled for June.
Less than two weeks ago when I ordered and had my new MPEG4 receivers set up with a new dish I was told by the D* and the installer that the Denver channels were to be added in April. Don't know if I believe that either but I will bet you can get a half dozen different answers from D* employees. Like most things with D*, it will be 'on the air' when its 'on the air'. Fortunately I have OTA reception and alternative sources for network anyway, so its really not an issue for me. I know that is not true for many others here though.

That's what I was told during the install too, John. It was kinda funny. He didn't even let me get the question out. I said, "So, when are they thinking..." and he cut me off and said April. But you're right, we'll see them when they get up. Could be Monday, could be June, you never know...

Thanks jc

Anyone else having some issues with KCNC (35) over the past 48 hours? I'm having a lot of drop outs, and it's normally rock solid for me. My fear is that I may have some emerging leaf issues in my neighborhood. Before I mess with my antenna, I wanted to see if anyone else was having recent problems, since I'm not yet totally convinced the problem is on my end. Hopefully I'll get CSI tonight.

By the way, as I was checking my KCNC-DT signal this afternoon before I left home, I noticed they were showing an HD feed of USA Networks coverage of the Masters Golf Tournament. (Of course their analog side was broadcasting normal CBS soap operas) It looks good, but I'm curious as to how a CBS owned affiliate (KCNC) is showing HD coverage from a cable network that is NOT even available in HD but IS owned by NBC, not CBS? Very Strange.

I noticed this during the winter Olympics. Universal HD was split, sometimes simulcasting what was on USA, and other times different channels. I almost wonder if it has to do with some strange deal like what ABC/NBC did with Al Michaels contract. Didn't one of the networks give up exclusive rights for "some" golf tournaments? I am not saying it was the Al Michaels deal, but something "like" that maybe.

Also, I too am having MAJOR reception problems with my E* 921 and KCNC-DT, but when I switch over to my Sony internal tuner, there are no dropouts. I am waiting for delivery on my E* VIP622 on the 28th of this month. I think that will fix the reception issues, since the 622 has a generation 4 8VSB tuner. I think the 921 (and 811) have a first generation 8VSB chip.

hi guys.. am new to HDTV and am trying out best options from where is stay 136th and York in thornton -80602 .What antenna's do you suggest , i read about some indoor and some outdoor .. Tried an indoor antenna from radioshack
(has a small amplifier) got WB and FOX 100% lock .. no luck with other channels ..

any help would be appreciated.


-coolk

Welcome, coolk

The indoor options will limit you.

The best option (for now) would probably be an outdoor antenna. Do you have a decent view towards downtown?

I'm using a Channel Master 4228 (pretty common high gain antenna) on a mast with a rotor. Clunky, yes - but it really pulls in the whisper signals we've got around here.

That's my 2¢.

Good luck, and have fun.

I had major problems receiving both KCNC (4) and KUSA (9) last night (Fri night 4-7), though 7 was perfect.... very very rare for me to have issues despite my Castle Rock location, so thinking something must be going on with those two signals as well..... anyone have further info?

So, who is going to log post #15,000 or be at the top of page 500?

All these posts and still no full power HDTV <sigh>. :(

Do you want to put a wager on it, Person, Date or Time?

Naw, otherwise there will be a bunch of folks making mindless posts clogging up this board attempting to win the bet. Not that any of the previous 14,853 posts fit into that category! :rolleyes:

thanks for your response ByH2O

Naw, otherwise there will be a bunch of folks making mindless posts clogging up this board attempting to win the bet. Not that any of the previous 14,853 posts fit into that category! :rolleyes:
:eek:

hi guys.. am new to HDTV and am trying out best options from where is stay 136th and York in thornton -80602 .What antenna's do you suggest , i read about some indoor and some outdoor .. Tried an indoor antenna from radioshack
(has a small amplifier) got WB and FOX 100% lock .. no luck with other channels ..

any help would be appreciated.


-coolk

Outdoor is really your only hope. Any decent outdoor rooftop antenna pointed downtown should do...

[QUOTE=UHForever]Anyone else having some issues with KCNC (35) over the past 48 hours? I'm having a lot of drop outs, and it's normally rock solid for me. My fear is that I may have some emerging leaf issues in my neighborhood. Before I mess with my antenna, I wanted to see if anyone else was having recent problems, since I'm not yet totally convinced the problem is on my end. Hopefully I'll get CSI tonight.[QUOTE]

We're having the same problem with Comcrash. Not just you. Another is Fox-31. Usually rock solid. This last week, lots of problems during Prison Break, 24, and Idol.

Atmospherics? Just kidding!

I was completely out for Survivor and tonight I can't get channel 9...so, something is going on...no leaves here.

Weird.

Tim

KUSA is breaking up tonight and is unwatchable. Something must have happened. I have had no problems with KCNC tho.

I checked at 9:30 and KUSA was watchable at 35 miles from RP. I am using a 4228 with a 7777 and can receive even KCNC with few problems

Continued problems with both KCNC and KUSA, KCNC all break ups, KUSA not enough signal to recieve... really curious whats up as its worked fine for several years!!! Yet 6 & 7 are fine (all from same spot) so Im stumped...

I certainly didn't see any problems with KCNC during the later rounds of the Masters yesterday. Can't say that I have watched it much beyond that, but I haven't seen any problems when I pass through it while channel surfing either.

I haven't noticed any issues with KCNC lately, but I think the most recent show I watched on that channel was The Unit last Wednesday(?)

The 6:00 news on KUSA was really stuttering. Not sure if it was their signal or if it's time to reboot the ol' HR10-250 again.

KUSA is dropping in and out for me as well here in world-famous Lakewood.

Also, has anyone noticed the HORRIBLE upscaling on KUSA lately? I first noticed it Saturday night. During commercials (all of which originate in 480i), there would be interlacing artifacts galore. I switched to the analog channel and there were no problems there, just like expected. When the show came back on, it was fine. Commercials that are in the original NBC feed are upscaled fine. But when the grey bars come on (meaning that KUSA is doing the upscaling) you see horizontal lines all over the place when anything moves. I tune in tonight and the problem is still there. I am amazed that I am the first to notice this. Are y'all gettin' rusty? :)

Also, has anyone noticed the HORRIBLE upscaling on KUSA lately? I first noticed it Saturday night. During commercials (all of which originate in 480i), there would be interlacing artifacts galore.Yep, I noticed it too. Completely nasty… :confused:

Any updates on the HDNet tour next Monday? Wondering if I missed any posts on it.

Reggie

Any updates on the HDNet tour next Monday? Wondering if I missed any posts on it.

Reggie
Details posted again in posting #14828. I am working the final details with the HDNet folks on parking and actual tour start times. I will report on final details by Friday or Saturday.

Details posted again in posting #14828. I am working the final details with the HDNet folks on parking and actual tour start times. I will report on final details by Friday or Saturday.

Thanks

I will be out of town till Monday morning so I wanted to get any details cleared up before I got back

Reggie

I can't remember if I've already indicated my interest or not, but I'm planning on being at the HDNet tour on Monday.

Thanks for putting it together, jm.

Count the wife and I in for sure for the HDNet tour next Monday PM.

Thanks,

Carl B.

Well I had the VIP622 installed yesterday, There definitely is a difference between E* HD locals and OTA, Although the E* HD locals look good. OTA is cleaner and crisper. Well I ended up running three separate RG6 lines from my atnenna to each receiver and I am only to get 66% signal strength on KUSA, Before I added the new Sammy I could get 78 to 82 so I will do some more looking around.

While I was at RS, I was picking up the materials to properly ground my mast and they didn't have any ground clamps for the mast, No problem, any home improvement store has them, The manager was very rude, She told me I didn't need to ground the mast all I needed to do was ground the RG6 lines and if I wanted a ground clamp I had to get on at a truck stop. Can you belive it, A TRUCK STOP! I told her it was for OTA, not a CB and she walked away from me.

I also noticed the upconverting issues on 9 last night. BTW... why isn't a great show like Scrubs being shown in HD while a lousy one like Teachers is? Who makes these decisions?

CH 9 is breaking up really bad for the 6:00 news... signal strength is still at 88-90% though.

I e-mailed Don Perez about the upscaling interlacing artifacts, and he didn't seem to understand. He kept asking how I was watching, over the air, cable, etc. He then said they had some encoding issues over the weekend, but that they should be fixed. Last I checked they still have the problem. Perhaps their eyes aren't as sharp as ours. They need anal pricks like us to work there! :) All I know is that if I were an advertiser, I'd be going nuts over how bad my commercial looked on the digital channel.

Since this was filed in Jefferson County District Court, and we know all the judges in JeffCo are bought and paid for by anti-tower folks, does this mean it's all over for LCG and we'll have to wait for the cutover date now?

From the April 13, 2006 Rocky Mountain News:

Golden followed through on its threat to seize the site of a proposed transmission tower that some Denver-area broadcasters hope to use to broadcast high-definition television, filing an eminent domain case in Jefferson County District Court on Wednesday.

The site, nearly 65 acres on Lookout Mountain overlooking Golden, was acquired by Lake Cedar Group, which represents the broadcasters, in order to build a 730-foot tower capable of supporting HDTV transmitters.

The proposal has been mired in controversy for years, and Jefferson County commisioners in September voted 2-1 to deny Lake Cedar's proposal.

Golden decided to acquire the land - through eminent domain, if necessary - as park land, and offered $1.88 million for the parcel in late March.

I don't think anything is over. First, this is new ground (pun intended) as the site is not in Golden city limits. There has never been a case of Eminent Domain seizure won by a city outside it's city limits. Now, if Jefferson County or the State of CO were to file suit, that's a tower of a different color.

Here is a link to the article that appeared in today's Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3704508).

And the boycott continues.

Last month, I bought a new Mustang (your son made me do it, Leonard :) ). Up until the eminent domain crap, I had intended to purchase it at Stevinson's Golden Ford. I made the purchase at Lakewood Fordland instead. Let Lakewood collect the sales tax on $30,000.

My office is right on the border of Lakewood and Golden. It used to be a 50/50 shot where I'd eat lunch. Now my coworkers know that I won't go into Golden for lunch anymore.

It may not make much of an impact, but at least I know I'm not contributing to this nonsense financially.

Here is a link to the article that appeared in today's Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3704508).

So has anyone responded to the author or the Denver Post about their fact checking? Especially:
In September 2005, the Jefferson County Board of Commissioners voted 2-1 to reject rezoning for the tower.

It appears wrong in the RMNews as well.

I thought they voted that tower fall was not properly taken into account?

# Matt

And the boycott continues.

Last month, I bought a new Mustang (your son made me do it, Leonard :) ). Up until the eminent domain crap, I had intended to purchase it at Stevinson's Golden Ford. I made the purchase at Lakewood Fordland instead. Let Lakewood collect the sales tax on $30,000.


Yea. I know.

I thought they voted that tower fall was not properly taken into account?

# Matt
That was the intent, but obviously that was not the case. Just go back and look at their campaign promises.

JMartinko
Is it to late to make the final roll call for the HD Net tour. Count me in if you can, Is it Monday the 17th at 16:00 still?

Never mind, I just read back and saw post 14868, I wait until Friday or Saturday.

I also bought a new Jeep last month. I looked and test drove one at John Elway West in Golden, but bought mine at Phil Long in Denver.

You know a boycott could make a difference!

Oh, I forgot taxpayer money is not important in Golden. They just want more towers. :D

Anyone know where I can get a Channel Master antenna, using the Radio Shack Yagi here, which worked well until 2 weeks ago, as posted earlier, now I cant receive 4 or 9 anymore and need to find something that will help.... Any other suggestions on getting a better antenna or helping to improve the signal? Thanks... very frustrated after two years of no problem reception of 4 and 9!!!!! Hard to beleive that 7 is now my only network I get!!!

So, I wonder if I am the only one getting KCNC poorly tonight? It's thursday, 8:45 pm and I have been getting pixallation and popping audio all evening. The signa l strength stays up, according to my meter.

Tim

Once again, my apologies for straying off topic here, please don't revoke my membership in this 'Dead Ender's Club'. I would miss all the action.........especially all the talk about the progress of the tower construction on Lookout. :rolleyes:

**SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS**** NOTICE OF TIME CHANGE**SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS****

I have received the final "Go Ahead'' for the tour on Monday April 17 with one minor time change. Due to some construction in the area, parking at Colorado Studios is an issue, so the HDNet folks have asked me to move the time to 5:00 PM instead of the original 4:00 PM time. This will allow the daytime shift of workers to be out of the lot before we all start to arrive. All of the remaining instructions are the same as before, so I will repeat them here so you don't have to go back into the thread again. My latest head count is at 29, so we should be all set. If any of you have a last minute change of plans or find you can now make it feel free to PM me this weekend.

As I mentioned previously, I have taken down names from your prior posts and PM's so if you have already replied there is no need to do it again unless your plans have changed. This notice is just a reminder to those who were waiting to check their schedule.

Ground Rules Reminder
This is NOT a first come first serve event, so a limited number of late RSVP's will still be accepted. No, you will not be charged with a crime if you have to back out at the last minute, although your property may be subject to eminent domain seizure by the town of Golden.

Once again, any AVSforum member in the area is welcome, although at this late stage I hope the head count doesn't make a huge change as a courtesy to HDNet. Still looking for additional escorts for Jetlag although I may have to take on primary duty myself.

***DIRECTIONS****

HDNet information can be found at
HDNet web page and address (http://hd.net/factsheet.html)

A map to the location (Colorado Studios) is located at:

Colorado Studios (http://www.coloradostudios.com/)

where you will click on "map"

Additional driving directions (once you have the address) can also be found at:

Mapquest Directions (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/)


******

And the boycott continues.

Last month, I bought a new Mustang (your son made me do it, Leonard :) ). Up until the eminent domain crap, I had intended to purchase it at Stevinson's Golden Ford. I made the purchase at Lakewood Fordland instead. Let Lakewood collect the sales tax on $30,000.

My office is right on the border of Lakewood and Golden. It used to be a 50/50 shot where I'd eat lunch. Now my coworkers know that I won't go into Golden for lunch anymore.

It may not make much of an impact, but at least I know I'm not contributing to this nonsense financially.

Nothing happens in Golden without Stevinson's approval. Contact him and the Golden Chamber of Commerce and let them know about your boycott. If you have a name for your boycott group, include that. Start a political action committee, raise money, and give it in this year's election to those who are pro tower. Money talks.

I am the former elected secretary of a Jeffco political party, ran for public office, and managed several successful candidate campaigns.

It sounds to me that these politicians think they are politically untouchable. You have to persuade them that they can and will lose their elections if they continue down this path.

But more people are interested in talking about the weather than doing something about it. I don't anticipate anybody here will do anything meaningful except post articles here and not buy a sandwich at lunchtime in Golden. But I have a question. How will the Golden Chamber of Commerce and its politicians know you didn't buy that sandwich if you don't tell them?

And if I were LCG, now's the time to file the multimilion dollar lawsuit against Golden, the one that breaks Golden defending their position. Maybe start by filing it in federal court, this all beginning with the federal mandate to convert to digital television.

And nothing says a citizen's group can't do the same.

Anyone know where I can get a Channel Master antenna.
See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7050699&&#post7050699

JM, planning to attend on Monday, it will just depend on whether or not my Cialis and Viagra prescriptions arrive by then. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it will be good to see everyone again. T

JMartinko,

I still plan on being on the HDNet tour Monday, but my better half has backed out due to a rescheduling of another event to which she is committed.

CEB II (Carl B)

Nothing happens in Golden without Stevinson's approval. Contact him and the Golden Chamber of Commerce and let them know about your boycott. If you have a name for your boycott group, include that. Start a political action committee, raise money, and give it in this year's election to those who are pro tower. Money talks.

I am the former elected secretary of a Jeffco political party, ran for public office, and managed several successful candidate campaigns.

It sounds to me that these politicians think they are politically untouchable. You have to persuade them that they can and will lose their elections if they continue down this path.

But more people are interested in talking about the weather than doing something about it. I don't anticipate anybody here will do anything meaningful except post articles here and not buy a sandwich at lunchtime in Golden. But I have a question. How will the Golden Chamber of Commerce and its politicians know you didn't buy that sandwich if you don't tell them?

And if I were LCG, now's the time to file the multimilion dollar lawsuit against Golden, the one that breaks Golden defending their position. Maybe start by filing it in federal court, this all beginning with the federal mandate to convert to digital television.

And nothing says a citizen's group can't do the same.
I was thinking about stopping by Stevinson's Ford to talk to the owner/GM/whoever I can find there to let them know. I'll also send a note to the Golden Chamber of Commerce.

I'm hesitant to get involved in anything like political action committees since I'm not a citizen and not able to vote. I don't think it's the best idea to get involved in anything related to elections as a foreigner in your country.

So, I wonder if I am the only one getting KCNC poorly tonight? It's thursday, 8:45 pm and I have been getting pixallation and popping audio all evening. The signa l strength stays up, according to my meter.

Tim

My signal is bad too. I can't get a stable picture. The signal dropped from 90 to around 70. I think it started around Thursday.

LCG has asked me to be in a Testimonial TV spot regarding the latest Golden Eminent Domain filing. If anybody else would like to be involved, I will pass along your info. They plan on shooting asap. Email me ernie.santella@comcast.net

It would be great to have a little kid with tears in her eyes, say something like:
"Mr Golden Mayor, please don't take away my Sesame Street."

Hmm, I don't know where we're going to find the kid though... Maybe we can get Dr-mal to do it? :D

It would be great to have a little kid with tears in her eyes, say something like:
"Mr Golden Mayor, please don't take away my Sesame Street."

My 2.5 yr old daughter would be perfect when she's having one of her "meltdown" tantrums. You know - the one where she's so upset she stops breathing for a couple of seconds because she's crying. She can't read a script, so we'd have to have an authoritative voiceover (think James Earl Jones) saying "See what happens to the children of Colorado?"

Hey Everyone. I know this is off topic but I wanted to let you know I just bought an HD-DVD player and it is awesome. I have not played one with any of the new movies but the DVD upscaling works well.
T.

Since Thursday, my signal strength/quality readings on my Dish 811 for KRMA-DT, KMGH-DT, KUSA-DT, and KTVD-DT have been all over the map. I usually see an average of about 89 for all of those except KRMA (average 85), but they have been everywhere from 49 (no lock) to averaging in the 60's and 70's. Oddly, KCNC-DT's signal has been unaffected. Of course these events also haven't affected KWGN or Fox digital.

Note, my KRMA and KUSA signals have been in the high 80's since I first set up for OTA back in December 2003, so it isn't some seasonal adjustment.

Anyone else see anything funny going on?

I have seen the same thing as you described, I had a big drop on 2-1 which I thought was strange, This happened about the same time I ran new separate lines to each TV so I assumed it was me, maybe it is me? I haven't had time to mess with it since Tuesday so I don't have accurate signal strengths to post.

KWGN is dropping out about every 2 minutes here. This is very unusual, because for the past 2 years, KWGN's signal has been rock solid for me.

Something strange is definitely going on here...

We should let them know how we feel about the Hostile Eminent Domain take-over attempt.

http://santellaproductions.com/dtv/BoycottGolden.jpg

Hey Everyone. I know this is off topic but I wanted to let you know I just bought an HD-DVD player and it is awesome. I have not played one with any of the new movies but the DVD upscaling works well.
T.
Dang it. BB in Westminster wouldn't sell one to me - they're supposed to be in their Sunday ad, so they can't sell them ahead of that. Since they're closed for Easter, they said to be there at 10:00 on Monday morning. If I'd known the Broomfield store was selling them...
[edit: Just bought one at bestbuy.com for in-store pickup on Monday morning SCHWEET!]

Man, I'd love to pick one of those HD players up. But my TV only has component inputs, and I seriously doubt it would send full HD resolution through component.

Man, I'd love to pick one of those HD players up. But my TV only has component inputs, and I seriously doubt it would send full HD resolution through component.
[OFF TOPIC]
Mine too. Fortunately, both HD-DVD and BluRay support a flag called ICT (Image Constraint Token) which studios can set to tell the player to output low-res over component. AFAIK, no studios have announced plans to use this flag, and any time it is in use, it will have to be clearly labeled on the disc packaging. Some conspiracy theorists believe that in about a year, once HD-DVD (and BluRay) have had widespread adoption amongst HD enthusiasts, all the studios will start using ICT. Who knows. For now, it's all good.
[/OFF TOPIC]

Yeah, but you just know all of the major studios will turn that flag on. They're all greedy and paranoid, which is not a good combination.

Maybe I'll get one when they come down in price a little. I'd sure hate to spend $500 on an HD-DVD player only to have the studios yank the HD rug out from under me by using that flag.

Yeah, but you just know all of the major studios will turn that flag on. They're all greedy and paranoid, which is not a good combination.

Maybe I'll get one when they come down in price a little. I'd sure hate to spend $500 on an HD-DVD player only to have the studios yank the HD rug out from under me by using that flag.
Yeah, if/when that happens, I'll just vote with my wallet and stop buying any HD-DVDs with the ICT flag set. They lose money, I save money, everybody wins!

Here's a link to the AVS Power Buy on the Toshiba HD-DVD player.

http://www.hideflifestyle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68&products_id=546

Once again, my apologies for straying off topic here, please don't revoke my membership in this 'Dead Ender's Club'. I would miss all the action.........especially all the talk about the progress of the tower construction on Lookout. :rolleyes:

**SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS**** NOTICE OF TIME CHANGE**SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS****

I have received the final "Go Ahead'' for the tour on Monday April 17 with one minor time change. Due to some construction in the area, parking at Colorado Studios is an issue, so the HDNet folks have asked me to move the time to 5:00 PM instead of the original 4:00 PM time. This will allow the daytime shift of workers to be out of the lot before we all start to arrive. All of the remaining instructions are the same as before, so I will repeat them here so you don't have to go back into the thread again. My latest head count is at 29, so we should be all set. If any of you have a last minute change of plans or find you can now make it feel free to PM me this weekend.

As I mentioned previously, I have taken down names from your prior posts and PM's so if you have already replied there is no need to do it again unless your plans have changed. This notice is just a reminder to those who were waiting to check their schedule.

Ground Rules Reminder
This is NOT a first come first serve event, so a limited number of late RSVP's will still be accepted. No, you will not be charged with a crime if you have to back out at the last minute, although your property may be subject to eminent domain seizure by the town of Golden.

Once again, any AVSforum member in the area is welcome, although at this late stage I hope the head count doesn't make a huge change as a courtesy to HDNet. Still looking for additional escorts for Jetlag although I may have to take on primary duty myself.

***DIRECTIONS****

HDNet information can be found at
HDNet web page and address (http://hd.net/factsheet.html)

A map to the location (Colorado Studios) is located at:

Colorado Studios (http://www.coloradostudios.com/)

where you will click on "map"

Additional driving directions (once you have the address) can also be found at:

Mapquest Directions (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/)


******

jm - can I bring a friend from Fort Collins with me?

Reggie

jm - can I bring a friend from Fort Collins with me?

Reggie
Check your PM.

Check your PM.

Danka

Just got back from the HDNet Tour. It was an interesting tour. I will let others describe some of the things as I have to pack for a business trip tomorrow. I felt obligated to post though about a sensitive subject. Unfortunately Jetlag was unable to make the tour at the last minute (he claims it was a sick dog, but there were rumors at HDNet about a restraining order).

So of course, wouldn't luck have it that Katie Daryl was in town filming spots for one of her shows. Apparently she had heard the rumors of the saga of 'jetlag' from our last tour and she appeared extremely disappointed, if not downright agitated, that 'jetlag wasn't on the tour. She said she had been waiting for several years just to meet him. Oh well, sorry Jetlag, it appears you missed your chance to extend your legend. Maybe next time.

As for Katie, well, she was last seen leaving with...................... :eek:

Sorry to have missed it, but one of my pups developed a bad eye infection (not from contact lens solution) and the Vet wanted to see her right away. She is now wearing a 'lamp shade' so she won't rub it and actually looks pretty hilarious.

On another note, does anyone know a place locally where I can buy a non-penetrating (wow, I've never used that phrase before) antenna mounting platform? I talked the owner into letting me set one up on the flat part of the roof and I will secure it with a couple of sandbags.

A friend used one of the Rat Shack tripods, but bolted it to cinder blocks set on his flat roof.

Just my 2¢.

A friend of mine bought a Rat Shack tripod, and bolted it to a piece of plywood and then put a couple sandbags on the plywood. Seemed sturdy enough.

I really like the cinder block idea though, less stuff to buy.

Just got back from the HDNet Tour. It was an interesting tour. I will let others describe some of the things as I have to pack for a business trip tomorrow. I felt obligated to post though about a sensitive subject. Unfortunately Jetlag was unable to make the tour at the last minute (he claims it was a sick dog, but there were rumors at HDNet about a restraining order).

So of course, wouldn't luck have it that Katie Daryl was in town filming spots for one of her shows. Apparently she had heard the rumors of the saga of 'jetlag' from our last tour and she appeared extremely disappointed, if not downright agitated, that 'jetlag wasn't on the tour. She said she had been waiting for several years just to meet him. Oh well, sorry Jetlag, it appears you missed your chance to extend your legend. Maybe next time.

As for Katie, well, she was last seen leaving with...................... :eek:
John

Thanks so much for setting up the tour. It was interesting that Phil made sure we understood the Lambo he drove was from non HDNet money :) .

Reggie

And I didn't really expect Katie to be there - it was a nice surprise that she was.

Thanks John for setting up the tour. My daughter Kristen and I enjoyed it. Kristen is a communication major at UCD and may want to contact them in the future for internship opportunities. She did get some business cards and contact information while we were there.

John,
Thanks for setting up the tour, I really enjoyed it. I especially enjoyed meeting Katie Daryl. She got to spend time with the rest of us since Jetlag didn't make the tour.

Carl B.

I made the HDNet tour and all I got were these post-it pads.. :p

Seriously, Thanks again John for arranging the tour. I enjoyed it very much and it was good to put faces to forum names. It was fun listening to Phil talk about what they are trying to do for the HD world and the see effort they're putting into the business just to get the content to us. Now if we can just improve the delivery systems, like D*, E* and Comcast, etc. we would have it made.
Great job John and HDNet/Colorado Studios for the tour.

Did Phil offer any opinion on the future quality of HD broadcasts offered by the various providers? Mark Cuban has made some not so thinly veiled comments about providers downrezzing HD signals. Do the folks at HDNet think that there is any chance that this downrezzing practice will be eliminated?

So of course, wouldn't luck have it that Katie Daryl was in town filming spots for one of her shows. Apparently she had heard the rumors of the saga of 'jetlag' from our last tour and she appeared extremely disappointed, if not downright agitated, that 'jetlag wasn't on the tour. She said she had been waiting for several years just to meet him. Oh well, sorry Jetlag, it appears you missed your chance to extend your legend. Maybe next time.

As for Katie, well, she was last seen leaving with...................... :eek:

Damn!

And I didn't really expect Katie to be there - it was a nice surprise that she was.

Damn!

I especially enjoyed meeting Katie Daryl. She got to spend time with the rest of us since Jetlag didn't make the tour.

Damn! Missed the tour.

Don

Did Phil offer any opinion on the future quality of HD broadcasts offered by the various providers? Mark Cuban has made some not so thinly veiled comments about providers downrezzing HD signals. Do the folks at HDNet think that there is any chance that this downrezzing practice will be eliminated?
Obviously, they're aware of the downrezzing. Obviously they don't like it. I got the impression their hands are kind of tied - they can't really tell D* to leave their signal alone or else - they need the revenue from D*.

One comment that I think I'm allowed to repeat is that D* just recently (this week?) called HDNet and told them that their signal doesn't look so hot with D* recompressing it and wondering if HDNet could possibly provide them with a 1280x1080 version of their signal instead of 1920x1080. I don't think it'll surprise anyone to hear that HDNet really isn't interested in going down that path. But it is telling that D* is finally thinking about the quality of their product.

Thanks dr_mal. D* is thinking about the quality of their product, but they are thinking of heading in the wrong direction.

John,
Thanks for setting up the tour, It was very interesting and the truck was really something to see, It was good to meet some of you guys and it was great to meet Katie.

For the last few weeks KDVR has been coming in fairly decently down here. Last fall it wouldn't lock at all. At 1st I thought that it was atmospherically related. However, testing day & night the signal persisted. I have not touched my antennas since last fall.

So, today I called KDVR engineering. The answer: 'Recently we have tweaked our exciters in an effort to put out a cleaner signal'.

Well, from my perspective, it worked. So, people(at least down South) may have a better more reliable signal. Now, please don't mess with it! :p
....jc

I also have noticed a slight improvement in KDVR-DT's signal over the past few weeks. Off my Lookout Mountain directed antenna I now get readings around 90 and off my RP directed antenna I now get around 80. That's a gain of about 8 and 4 points respectively.

I just wish I did as well with KWGN. I still get only 78 to 82 off my LOM antenna and I can't even lock them from my RP antenna.

BTW, the mystery of signal drop-off from RP on 16, 17, 18, and 19 continues. Sometimes it is normal, but with increasing frequency, it is low to not-lockable. Except from KCNC (35), which seems almost unaffected by whatever is going on here.

I've experimented within my system and even replaced a couple of pieces of coax that had suspect connectors, but the issue persists. It's beginning to look like a seasonal or structural change in the signal path to my antenna. However, I still haven't ruled out the Monster surge protection that coax passes the signal through before it gets to my receiver. I'm going to try bypassing it first.

If that doesn't do it, I guess it is back to attic for an antenna adjustment. It may be warranted by the fact that my last antenna adjustment was in early December, after the leaves fell and before 17 and 19 began their RP broadcasting.

Im noticing the same issues from signals off RP, and Im in Castle Rock, no clue whats going on and no one else here seems tohave any answers!

I too have noticed an improved signal from KDVR. With my antenna pointed towards Republic, I could not get a sniff of KDVR. But about two weeks ago, I noticed that I was getting a constant lock in the 68-70 range on my E*211 without rotating the antenna towards Lookout. While this is good, it's never been an issue with me since I receive KFCT out of Ft. Collins while pointing at Republic.

I've seen several of the posts regarding fluctuation in Republic signals. I haven't noticed any at all.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ernie's editorial in the Post today about Golden's eminent domain pursuit. NICE JOB, Ernie! Short but to the point.

Thanks Mike. I keep writing 'em and they keep printing 'em. You guys should write. They print about every other letter I write.

I got a letter from the Golden mayor, but I'm in New Orleans and will let you all know what he said when I get back.

OT: I've been down here for a couple of days. It's unbelievable. There are no words to describe the damage. Most have seen the damage from flooding on the East side of N.O. , but we drove down south, toward the gulf and there is nothing left. Every house and building was destroyed. They don't even have power in areas. Luxury boats lying destoyed, fishing trawlers on the road. Hundreds of abandoned cars/trucks. The guys I am with all both agreed, they should just leave it and desigate it a Federal Reserve instead of rebuilding. But, they are trying to rebuild all these Levies (sp) to be about 10' higher and deeper. It's gonna' take half a lifetime to do this for 80 miles on both sides, and that's just the south penisula from N.O. It's just so sad and only 41 days until Hurricane season starts again. /OT

Is Fox having broadcast issues tonight? I'm able to receive WB fine, but Fox is totally unwatchable (I'm receiving the signal via multipath, so might just be me).

(Edit): I checked the signal strength and it's between 25 and 35. ALL other channels are 70+.

I figured out my problem. I think Fox either bumped up their power, or my multipath "got better". I had a antenna mounted pre-amplifier with the right amount of amplification (worked just yesterday), and now it's over amplified. I added 20db of attenuation to the singal coming off the amplifier, and it's now back to 71. Of course I've now lost WB, but I guess you can't have it all... :)

Regarding the RP signal issues, I wasn't home this evening but I am watching 9-1 right now with no problems, I checked 4 and 7 and am getting better signals than I usually get.

Just wanted to pass this along from Colorado HDTV.
--------------------

HDTV Open House
Wednesday April 26th
7:00 to 8:30 PM
Ramada Inn
3836 E. Mulberry Ave. (Just west of I-25)
Fort Collins, CO 80524

Come hear the latest on Golden’s condemnation of the property intended for the new digital tower. Learn why Larimer and Weld County HDTV viewers are particularly vulnerable the longer we go without a consolidated tower on Lookout Mountain.

Refreshments and Snacks
Please RSVP to info@hdtvcolorado.com

Just wanted to pass this along from Colorado HDTV.
--------------------

HDTV Open House
Wednesday April 26th
7:00 to 8:30 PM
Ramada Inn
3836 E. Mulberry Ave. (Just west of I-25)
Fort Collins, CO 80524

Come hear the latest on Golden’s condemnation of the property intended for the new digital tower. Learn why Larimer and Weld County HDTV viewers are particularly vulnerable the longer we go without a consolidated tower on Lookout Mountain.

Refreshments and Snacks
Please RSVP to info@hdtvcolorado.com

Thanks Ernie - I'll be there - I posted the message on Audiworld too.

Reggie

Here's the latest response from the Mayor...
Thank you for emailing me regarding the City of Golden's attempts to
acquire land on Lookout Mountain for Open Space.

The City and Jefferson County have had a long-standing and documented
desire to return Lookout Mountain to its former glory as an Open Space
park. Golden has been negotiating with multiple property owners on
Lookout Mountain to purchase land for Open Space in order to preserve
the mountain backdrop.
The citizens of Golden are strongly in favor of protecting our
boundaries and mountain backdrop. In 2002, they authorized the city to
spend $3 million specifically for the purchase of Open Space on the two
table mountains, Lookout Mountain and Mount Zion. Through a cooperative
effort with businesses and Jefferson County Open Space, large quantities
of land in and near Golden have been preserved as open space.
But Golden has an obligation to the voters to spend the remaining $2
million in bond money reserved for Open Space purchases. The City
believes the Lookout Mountain Property is the best use of those funds as
it is the largest remaining parcel of mountain backdrop in the Golden
valley and sits between two other large areas of designated Jefferson
County Conservation Open Space.
Lake Cedar Group (a major media conglomerate comprised of Channels 4, 7,
9 and 20) is one of the property owners on Lookout Mountain. The City
has offered to purchase 64-acres of land from LCG that currently has no
broadcast towers on it, and the Jefferson County Commissioners have
denied Lake Cedar Group's request to rezone it for a supertower.
Therefore, no tower can be built on that land. The City wants to protect
the land from any development.
Through negotiations ongoing since September 2005, the City ultimately
offered LCG $1.7 million for the property: $100,000 more than the
appraised value. LCG refused to accept the City's final offer, forcing
the City to file a Petition in Condemnation (the start of eminent domain
proceedings) to acquire the land for its best and highest use as Open
Space.

The four towers LCG says it will take down in exchange for its new
supertower are nonconforming to the county's zoning regulations, and
therefore cannot be upgraded to HDTV uses. As a result, these four
towers will have to be removed in the next few years as their analog
signals become antiquated. LCG is keeping Coloradans from getting HDTV
by choosing not following the lead of its sister stations and building
their tower on an already approved site in a less densely populated area
on Squaw Mountain.

We hope you will take more time to learn about the City's position on
this issue as we believe our position is in the best interest of both
the citizens of Golden and the people of Colorado.

Thank you for your input.

Sincerely,
Charles Baroch, MayorIt's another canned response, but it keeps changing.

Thank you for emailing me regarding the City of Golden's attempts to
acquire land on Lookout Mountain for Open Space.

The City and Jefferson County have had a long-standing and documented
desire to return Lookout Mountain to its former glory as an Open Space
park. Golden has been negotiating with multiple property owners on
Lookout Mountain to purchase land for Open Space in order to preserve
the mountain backdrop.

I used to work for the county. I don’t believe this was ever in anyone’s master plan.
Pure BS using Jeffco Open Space to justify their actions.


The citizens of Golden are strongly in favor of protecting our
boundaries and mountain backdrop. In 2002, they authorized the city to
spend $3 million specifically for the purchase of Open Space on the two
table mountains, Lookout Mountain and Mount Zion. Through a cooperative
effort with businesses and Jefferson County Open Space, large quantities
of land in and near Golden have been preserved as open space.
But Golden has an obligation to the voters to spend the remaining $2
million in bond money reserved for Open Space purchases. The City
believes the Lookout Mountain Property is the best use of those funds as
it is the largest remaining parcel of mountain backdrop in the Golden
valley and sits between two other large areas of designated Jefferson
County Conservation Open Space.


The City only began looking at this option last Fall.
The Open Space program funds should not be used this way. The County should take the money back from Golden.


Lake Cedar Group (a major media conglomerate comprised of Channels 4, 7,
9 and 20) is one of the property owners on Lookout Mountain. The City
has offered to purchase 64-acres of land from LCG that currently has no
broadcast towers on it,

and the Jefferson County Commissioners have
denied Lake Cedar Group's request to rezone it for a supertower.


Downright lie


Therefore, no tower can be built on that land. The City wants to protect
the land from any development.

BS

Through negotiations ongoing since September 2005, the City ultimately
offered LCG $1.7 million for the property: $100,000 more than the
appraised value. LCG refused to accept the City's final offer, forcing
the City to file a Petition in Condemnation (the start of eminent domain
proceedings) to acquire the land for its best and highest use as Open
Space.

Great use of taxpayer money for political purposes.



The four towers LCG says it will take down in exchange for its new
supertower are nonconforming to the county's zoning regulations, and
therefore cannot be upgraded to HDTV uses.

Wrong!!

As a result, these four
towers will have to be removed in the next few years as their analog
signals become antiquated.

Wrong!!

LCG is keeping Coloradans from getting HDTV
by choosing not following the lead of its sister stations and building
their tower on an already approved site in a less densely populated area
on Squaw Mountain.

Sister Stations? I believe KBDI is the only TV station broadcasting from Squaw.


What a crock!!!

I just finished my annual ritual of creating an NFL schedule program. No big deal, but it does allow me to see who'll be playing & track the standings etc.

They have the Sunday night games scheduled for 6:15(instead of 6:30) and the Monday night games scheduled for 6:30(instead of 7:00).

And, of course due to network changes, NBC has the Sunday night games and ESPN has the Monday night games. Also, the NFL network has 8 games on Thursday and Saturdays. It looks like OTA is taking a backseat to profits! :(

I guess the good news is that those cold ones won't be languishing as long in the fridge!
....jc

...........They have the Sunday night games scheduled for 6:15(instead of 6:30) and the Monday night games scheduled for 6:30(instead of 7:00).

And, of course due to network changes, NBC has the Sunday night games and ESPN has the Monday night games. Also, the NFL network has 8 games on Thursday and Saturdays. It looks like OTA is taking a backseat to profits! :(

I guess the good news is that those cold ones won't be languishing as long in the fridge!
....jc
1) the earlier time on Sunday means those of us going to Bronco games get to miss a bit more of the Sunday night game. It takes me about an hour to get home after a game and the late game is usually into the second quarter by then...............Boo Hiss

2) MNF at 6:30 means an even bigger traffic jam in Downtown Denver in rush hour as the crowd heads to the game at the same time everyone else is trying to go home....boo hiss

3)Get used to the NFL taking games off OTA. They have always wanted PPV ball games, but they know they can't do it all at once. Get used to the idea that their games will head more and more to 'pay' networks and NFLST. Once there they can start raising rates until it is PPV. The only thing stopping them is if the fans stop paying, and speaking for myself, I am an addict and they are a LONG way from reaching my threshold to stop. (Yes, I hate that fact and I hate the addiction, but every time the season starts I lose control of common sense).

4) As for the cold ones, why in g@ds name were they 'languishing' in the first place?????? Are you mad sir???

As for the letter from Golden to Ernie, no real news there. I think we can see the battle lines being drawn. The lawyers must be salivating over this one. There will be more law suits when the LCH station convert their signals to digital under a ruling from the FCC than you can count. Probably from both sides. My only recommendation for everyone here is to head to law school, get your degree, pass the bar and set up shop near Golden. You should be able to retire at an early age form the profits on this battle. As for the rest of us, get ready to pay higher taxes in Golden, higher cable and sat bills to the LCG stations for carriage and make sure you have access to a something other than OTA (and be sure to pay that bill too). The LCG, Golden and (S)CARE appear to have successfully conspired to eliminate access to free OTA in Colorado starting as soon as 2009 when some judge shuts them down for three or four years until a final ruling takes place. Welcome to the technology capitol of the USA. Hicktown, USA as we will soon be called.

Like I said, no new news here!
:mad:

Here's the latest response from the Mayor...
It's another canned response, but it keeps changing.

At least you got a response. I emailed the mayor the day after Golder filed and have not received a reply. I also emailed the babe running unopposed for JeffCo commissioner who was clueless regarding the issue when she was on local radio. No reply there either.

Of course, I live in Arvada, so they don't see me as having a dog in the fight. Plus Golden and Arvada are at each others throats regarding the route for the NW Parkway, and an unopposed candidate for office doesn't need to worry about how many voters she turns off.

Meanwhile, the television viewing public in metro-Denver remains clueless as to how a few selfish people in Golden are going dictating their video communications future.

An update on my problems w/ reduced signals on DTV channels 16, 17, 18, and sometimes 19. I started moving my RP antenna around yesterday and discovered that it didn't make any difference at all where it was pointed, plus the deteriorated signal condition had become full-time.

I then hooked up my unused Winegard PR-9018 yagi antenna to the pre-amp and coax run I use for my LOM antenna and pointed it at RP. All DTV channels out of RP showed up with their normal high 80s to low 90s readings.

So the problem was in my RP antenna system somewhere between my XG-91 antenna and the output from the coax line surge protection (I'd already replaced all the coax from the surge protection to both of my DTV receivers. Since I was already in the attic, on a hunch, I pulled the CM 7777 pre-amp off the LOM antenna setup and put it in place of the CM 7775 pre-amp connected to the XG-91 antenna output for RP signals. Presto, no more problem!

Since I only need the LOM antenna pre-amp for DTV channels 32, 34, and 38 and analog 31, I put the ailing CM 7775 on that circuit and it does fine. Strange that just the lower UHF frequencies were affected by the apparent degradation of the CM 7775 pre-amp. My next check is into the CM 7775's warranty, but I'm guessing it isn't more than a year and I'm well past that.

I went to the video shoot this morning with Rockford - Gray and did my bit in front of the camera, along with a few other people. We'll have to wait and see what kind of interstitial they edit it into. They did say they would be getting alot more aggressive and get the issues more in the public eye.

<Pessimism ID=jm>Start Here!</Pessimism>

I posted the recent HDNet tour pics on the Denverdtv.info (http://www.denverdtv.info) website. Even a bonus pic of Katie Daryl - Grrrr!

At least you got a response. I emailed the mayor the day after Golder filed and have not received a reply. I also emailed the babe running unopposed for JeffCo commissioner who was clueless regarding the issue when she was on local radio. No reply there either.

Of course, I live in Arvada, so they don't see me as having a dog in the fight. Plus Golden and Arvada are at each others throats regarding the route for the NW Parkway, and an unopposed candidate for office doesn't need to worry about how many voters she turns off.

Meanwhile, the television viewing public in metro-Denver remains clueless as to how a few selfish people in Golden are going dictating their video communications future.

For Chrissakes.

You know, these comments are part of the problem. You complain about "selfish" people in Golden. Well, aren't you being selfish, too? You want what you want. They want what they want. Kinda puts you at a selfishness standoff, doesn't it?

How about rather than insulting Kathy Hartman, calling her "babe" (she is a good person with a great mind, btw... I know her personally), you EDUCATE HER on this subject?

How else is she supposed to know these things? ESP? She's not a freaking psychic!

There is more than this one issue in the political bread line. And if you want your issue to jump to the front, and it's a long line, you have to do the things that will get it there.

How about asking Kathy for 10 minutes of her time and then tell her what is going on? Have your ducks in a row, because, having run for office before, I can tell you her plate is 500% full.

Do the same with ALL of the people running for state House and Senate. Call them and ask for appointments to see them and be sure to bring a COMMITTEE of people... more people means it's a bigger issue in their minds.

Call Ed Perlmutter and Rick O'Donnell, who are running for the 7th Congressional District. Call Bill Winter and Tom Tancredo, who are running for the 6th. Call Diana DeGette. Call Bill Ritter, Bob Beauprez and Mark Holtzman's offices. They're running for Governor.

Ask for appointments and lay out your case.

Don't be disappointed if they say no. They are unbelievably busy people. But start off your request for an appointment with something dramatic: Did you know that in two years all free TV will be gone in the Denver Metro area if you don't do something about it today!

Then get your friends and familiy together, those who share your concerns, and make a one page information sheet about the issue. Print it up. Make it look nice. Make sure it's informative. Make sure you include who they can contact in the City of Golden, the Chamber of Commerce, and at the Taj Mahal to complain... names, phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. Then walk your neighborhoods, dropping the literature at people's doors.

As you walk the neighborhoods with your literature (use a colored piece of paper that is easy to read from-- I use yellow or pale blue) and tape or attach it some way to people's front doors (not garage doors as people with openers will NOT get out of the car to pull it off the door handle), people will come out and talk to you about it. If they do, talk to them KINDLY, like they are NEIGHBORS. Don't call them "Babe"! Don't insult them. And if they raise health concerns about the TV signals, be ready to answer them. And don't insult them for being worried. They have a right to be worried. And your job is to educate and persuade them, not to insult and dismiss them.

What does a ream of really cheap printer paper cost these days? $3.00? Wait for a good sale at OfficeMax or some such place. Then print away.

That said, apparently LCG is doing a lousy job of educating the community by just using TV commericals during the news programs. If they want to reach people that way, they should run it during Oprah, Dr. Phil, and the soaps. Those soap people will have a fit if they think free TV is going away in two years. But TV isn't going to win this issue. Not now, anyway.

LCG should bombard Jefferson County residents with a direct mail campaign. A nice, glossy, colorful direct mail piece is the best way for them to get the point across. It's how all grassroots campaigns work along the front range.

As I said, the ONLY way to get through to politicians like the Mayor of Golden is with real, organized opposition. Start an organization. The bigger the better. They're not afraid of you when you mail them one email at a time. If you put "Citizens for Free TV" after your name and they suddenly get a couple thousand from different people, they'll sit up and take notice.

Call your elected officials and their opponents in the upcoming elections and ask for an appointment to see them and make your case. Get email and phone trees going. Call and email them day and night about the issue. Be kind, be courteous, but BE PERSISTENT. Hit them with an Avalanche of attention about this. Create lit pieces and drop them at people's homes. Then form a PAC, raise money, and use that money to support the candidates who are "right" on your issue.

Don't call them "Babe"! Don't be vile! Organize! Do something constructive for a change!

I went to the video shoot this morning with Rockford - Gray and did my bit in front of the camera, along with a few other people. We'll have to wait and see what kind of interstitial they edit it into. They did say they would be getting alot more aggressive and get the issues more in the public eye.

<Pessimism ID=jm>Start Here!</Pessimism>

Ron, maybe what Jeffco and Golden need is a referendum on the issue. If you have Rockford's ear, suggest it. Do it by petition.

And then suggest they stop concentrating their message solely through TV and go the direct mail route. The commercials are not getting the message out.

This is a grassroots issue that requires a grassroots approach.

And if they're going to use TV, the commercial has to be more dramatic. To make people act, first they must FEEL. And best of all, they must FEEL THREATENED in some way.


Example:

Narrator:

"On February 17, 2009, from Castle Rock to Fort Collins, all free TV from this station will go away.

And the City of Golden is responsible.

When FREE TV goes off in 2009, this is what it will look like.

(The picture goes black. Wait a count of 10.P

"You can stop this now. Call the Mayor of Golden, Charles Baroch, at 303-278-9697 , and tell him "I WANT MY FREE TV!"

That's 303-278-9697.

I WANT MY FREE TV!


Example 2:

(People of all shapes, sizes and colors, being interviewed in Golden, Downtown Denver, Castle Rock, Boulder, etc, each saying, with the sound blending together like a chant):

I WANT MY FREE TV!

I WANT MY FREE TV!

I WANT MY FREE TV!

I WANT MY FREE TV!

Narrator: In 2009 the federal government will changing how television signals are broadcast.

To keep broadcasting Free TV on this station, for people from Castle Rock to Fort Collins, a new TV tower must be built on Lookout Mountain in Golden.

If we don't, there will be no Free TV on this and some of your other favorite local stations.

The City of Golden won't let us build the new tower.

The City of Golden is taking away your FREE TV!

To stop this now, contact the Mayor of Golden and the Golden City Council at: 303-384-8014. That's 303-384-8014.

And tell them, "I WANT MY FREE TV!"

(fade in the sounds of the interviewees saying in unison, "I WANT MY FREE TV! I WANT MY FREE TV!")

--

Make up bumper stickers, buttons, badges, direct mail pieces, all around the slogan "I WANT MY FREE TV!"

(Takeoff on the old MTV promo from circa 1981... the baby boomers will remember it for sure.)

And maybe do one about "What would happen in an emergency and your cable went out and you couldn't get free TV?" Really hit the panic button.

If this was being done right, Mayor Baroch and the city council would be out right now looking for new jobs.

But it's not being done right. And they feel as safe as kittens sleeping in their mother's paws.

I posted the recent HDNet tour pics on the Denverdtv.info (http://www.denverdtv.info) website. Even a bonus pic of Katie Daryl - Grrrr!
What happened to that group picture we all took with Katie? Did it get lost?
:eek:

I was taking the picture right when someone turned out the lights (and Katie screamed) , so it didn't come out ;)

Bob, some of us have the attitude of "been there, done that". We've done FCC and local government letter writing campaigns, we've been to the Taj and testified on behalf of the stations (on quite a few occasions). It's the stations' turn to "turn up the heat". Frankly, I think the stations should file suit.

For Chrissakes.

You know, these comments are part of the problem. You complain about "selfish" people in Golden. Well, aren't you being selfish, too? You want what you want. They want what they want. Kinda puts you at a selfishness standoff, doesn't it?


I don't see anything selfish about wanting something for the community at large that doesn't directly benefit me. I currently receive all of the DTV broadcasts available and still would from Squaw Mountain. Unlike the opposition, this isn't about me, it is about what is the best implemention of Federal law.

For Chrissakes.

How about rather than insulting Kathy Hartman, calling her "babe" (she is a good person with a great mind, btw... I know her personally), you EDUCATE HER on this subject?

How else is she supposed to know these things? ESP? She's not a freaking psychic!

As you walk the neighborhoods with your literature (use a colored piece of paper that is easy to read from-- I use yellow or pale blue) and tape or attach it some way to people's front doors (not garage doors as people with openers will NOT get out of the car to pull it off the door handle), people will come out and talk to you about it.

That said, apparently LCG is doing a lousy job of educating the community by just using TV commericals during the news programs. But TV isn't going to win this issue. Not now, anyway.

Don't call them "Babe"! Don't be vile! Organize! Do something constructive for a change!

Obviously I didn't call her "babe" in my e-mail to her and I can only imagine how she refers to those of us who have e-mailed. My e-mail presented much of the information discussed in this forum regarding health concerns, alternate sites, etc., so I think I did my part in attempting to educate her. Her know-nothing and/or evasive radio performance was the catalyst for my e-mail in the first place.

Do not tape anything to anyone's front door! While it is done frequently, it is in violation of most city ordinances in this area. Folks can call the local cops for such defacement of their property.

While the LCG is a day late and dollar short in making the community aware of what is happening to the future of OTA TV, their efforts this year are a big step in the right direction. Prior to this, only a handful of people outside this forum, sCARE, and sCARE's lap dog politicians even knew there was an issue. I believe they are taking the correct approach in attempting to inform the public that there is an issue that will affect them soon and long term.

Finally, inferring that I am vile and non-constructive are quite insulting. No thank you to you for being a jerk. You are now on my IGNORE list.

Finally, inferring that I am vile and non-constructive are quite insulting. No thank you to you for being a jerk. You are now on my IGNORE list.
Me too.

... The commercials are not getting the message out.
...
But TV isn't going to win this issue. ...How misguided .. TV IS the issue. You might be surprised how many people are now aware of what battles are revolving around Lookout Mtn, from the newspaper articles and those commercials. Very few are so extremely in the know to have sought out this forum -- I beleive much of the public is quietly aware, and steering clear of the issue! They know that something will give at some point and everyone's TVs won't go dark in 2009. It's the Golden residents that need to be rallied and educated to what (and why) their government is doing.

It was great to hear Austin City Limits in DD 5.1 tonight. KUDOS to KRMA.
Picture was excellent as well.

What happened to that group picture we all took with Katie? Did it get lost?
:eek:I fixed Ron's corupted file. Here it is...

http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/hdnet/HDNet5.jpg

I fixed Ron's corupted file. Here it is...

Thanks Ernie, BTW, I am sure glad we were able to get that zipper on her skirt fixed after that shot. It could have created a serious problem if Jetlag had been there.
:D

:eek:

I fixed Ron's corupted file. Here it is...

http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/hdnet/HDNet5.jpg

Good stuff, Ernie!
;)

3)Get used to the NFL taking games off OTA. They have always wanted PPV ball games, but they know they can't do it all at once. Get used to the idea that their games will head more and more to 'pay' networks and NFLST. Once there they can start raising rates until it is PPV. The only thing stopping them is if the fans stop paying, and speaking for myself, I am an addict and they are a LONG way from reaching my threshold to stop. (Yes, I hate that fact and I hate the addiction, but every time the season starts I lose control of common sense).



The day the NFL stops broadcasting OTA is the day I stop watching. I've been watching MNF for over 20 years now, but I will no longer tune in as I have gotten rid of the sat.

I haven't noticed any of the RP problems people have brought up. The signals actually seem slightly stronger for me.

Is anybody else using a myhd card to record OTA? I mostly record Letterman. I seem to get about 5 hiccups per show. Is anybody recoding KCNC(gear doesn't matter) glitch free? Just trying to figure out if it is a problem with my pc(its my old desktop and only has the bear minimum requirements for a myhd card).

I fixed Ron's corupted file. ...[/IMG]ROFLMAO :D
(Katie's taller than I remember ;) )

Obviously I didn't call her "babe" in my e-mail to her and I can only imagine how she refers to those of us who have e-mailed. My e-mail presented much of the information discussed in this forum regarding health concerns, alternate sites, etc., so I think I did my part in attempting to educate her. Her know-nothing and/or evasive radio performance was the catalyst for my e-mail in the first place.

Do not tape anything to anyone's front door! While it is done frequently, it is in violation of most city ordinances in this area. Folks can call the local cops for such defacement of their property.

While the LCG is a day late and dollar short in making the community aware of what is happening to the future of OTA TV, their efforts this year are a big step in the right direction. Prior to this, only a handful of people outside this forum, sCARE, and sCARE's lap dog politicians even knew there was an issue. I believe they are taking the correct approach in attempting to inform the public that there is an issue that will affect them soon and long term.

Finally, inferring that I am vile and non-constructive are quite insulting. No thank you to you for being a jerk. You are now on my IGNORE list.

Nice bit of rhetorical BS.

If you can't take it, don't dish it out. You called an acquaintence of mine "Babe". Back at you for being vile and insulting to her! What a bigger man would do is apologize for what he wrote. I don't until you do.

At this rate and with LCG's approach, OTA will be dead in Denver in '09. Having been a paid consultant on many campaigns and issues in Jeffco, I can tell you Issues are won one house at a timehere. TV may be the issue but TV won't be the political solution. It never is with a local issue.

I really don't have a dog in this fight. I have cable. Only 20% of the people nationwide get TV OTA anymore. It just gauls me that people will have to pay for TV. Comcrash, MidDefTV Dish and Direct win again! And I'm sure they've put a few bucks into the campaign funds of the Golden Goofballs one way or another.

Oh... and they call politics HARDBALL for a reason. Politics is about power. Who gets it and how they keep it. And it sounds to me like the people here don't quite get how the pressure of hundreds of people, if not thousands, can move those in power to suddenly re-evaluate their positions.

Enjoy pay TV.

Am researching this issue for some time now and have arrived at the conclusion that the digital tv transmitters need to be on SQUAW MOUNTAIN, with low power fill in transmitters for the dead spots up close to the front range. The elevation of Look Out Mountain is to low and also has dead spots. Squaw Mountain has clear clean view of many citys in Colorado , all the way out to horizon.

all the way out to horizon

I guess you can't see the horizon from Lookout!

Am researching this issue for some time now and have arrived at the conclusion that the digital tv transmitters need to be on SQUAW MOUNTAIN, with low power fill in transmitters for the dead spots up close to the front range. The elevation of Look Out Mountain is to low and also has dead spots. Squaw Mountain has clear clean view of many citys in Colorado , all the way out to horizon.OK, newbie ntsc/pal/secam (aka sCARE member) You need to read about 499+ pages to truly understand the situation. Do you really think getting permission to build all these low-power transmitters all over the front range would be easy? You must not read the newspapers. Communities don't want ANY towers in their neighborhoods, Cell, Emergency or broadcasting of any kind. Plus, the stations need Lookout for their ENG relays. (The local news trucks bounce signals from locations all along the front range to Lookout and then back to their stations. They cannot send signals from say, Longmont, Boulder or Golden to downtown Denver)

Your plan just ain't gonna' fly. Plus, there's very few people who live out on the horizon way west of the metro area. Hundreds of thousands live in the Squaw shadow, West of Wadsworth Blvd.

Lookout was picked over 50 years ago and works very good and way better than Squaw. Not to mention the extremely high Fire Danger at Squaw. There's no Fire trucks anywhere near Squaw. And in the fall/spring, snow severly blocks the roads up to the transmitter site. The families all around there are in way more fire danger from Squaw than any RF from Lookout.

For years now every time there is snow, wind or a storm in the Squaw area KBDI analog and digital channels are knocked off the air and it sometimes takes days for them to come back on. Most times you will see a computer screen that says digital lock error.

This Squaw is better argument has no merit and is only pushed by the NIMBY'S.

BTW, who will make the top of page 500?? :D

(rats, I thought this might be it)

Am researching this issue for some time now and have arrived at the conclusion that the digital tv transmitters need to be on SQUAW MOUNTAIN, with low power fill in transmitters for the dead spots up close to the front range. The elevation of Look Out Mountain is to low and also has dead spots. Squaw Mountain has clear clean view of many citys in Colorado , all the way out to horizon.


Hello, & welcome to the thread.
Regarding Squaw Mountain, it isn't quite as simple as that.

For starters:

-The fabricated issue that has been created regarding radiation already precludes a move to Squaw Mountain. There are sCared residents who are trying use this issue to obtain ulterior motives. Be that as it may, the Squaw Mountain area also has its own residents. I'm sure there are certain Golden area folks who would be delighted to see the tower site moved to Squaw. I'm equally sure there would be some Squaw folks who'd have a thing or two to say about it.

-Shadowing is a much bigger problem than you might think. It's well known that broadcasting from Squaw would eliminate numerous areas of coverage, not the least of which would include most of West Denver and the entire City of Boulder.

-Using low power transmitters to "fill in" all of the missing areas is not really an option. Transmitters aren't cheap, even low power ones.

-Squaw Mountain also has a substandard road system. It is difficult and sometimes impossible to access the mountain, particularly in the Winter months.

-Over 50 years ago, it's a virtual certainty that many mountain locations, including Squaw, were scouted as potential locations for broadcasting. Lookout was chosen because, simply put, it was the best choice. And it still is.

OK, newbie ntsc/pal/secam (aka sCARE member)...
I thought the same thing.

Am researching this issue for some time now and have arrived at the conclusion that the digital tv transmitters need to be on SQUAW MOUNTAIN, with low power fill in transmitters for the dead spots up close to the front range. The elevation of Look Out Mountain is to low and also has dead spots. Squaw Mountain has clear clean view of many citys in Colorado , all the way out to horizon.

There have also been numerous studies over the years by various engineering firms, and with the lone exception of those sponsored by (S)CARE, every study has concluded that Lookout Mt. provides MUCH better coverage than both Squaw and Eldorado Mt. It was a similar study back in the 50's the helped land the towers on Lookout in the first place.

The only thing moving to Squaw does is make a 'different' group of residents angry. The Squaw residents have one gripe which the Lookout folks don't, the towers were not there before 95% of them moved in.

Also, "gap-filler" transmitters would not be an economical solution, since site owners would charge astronomical prices for the tower and building space. The State would have to condemn space for them, in order to provide service to the residents.

I think the potential for losing local TV affects not just the 20% of the population who watch off-the-air (me included), but everybody. The stations are granted a license to "broadcast," not feed signals to cable or satellite outlets. If they are not "broadcasting," potentially they can lose their license and be shut down. If that happens, everyone will be in the dark.

"I WANT MY FREE TV!" Sounds like a Dire Straights song to me. ;)

Also, "gap-filler" transmitters would not be an economical solution, since site owners would charge astronomical prices for the tower and building space. The State would have to condemn space for them, in order to provide service to the residents.


If I am not mistaken, I also believe that these transmitters would require the use of a different channel assignment for anyone who receives signal from them. This would mean that most viewers who live west of Wadsworth would be watching TV on a different channel number than the rest of us.

It is hard enough to get people to realize that you have to go to a different channel on cable to get HD locals. Now you expect people (many of them elderly) to realize that their half of Jeffco is on a different channel number? The second largest county in Colorado, with a different channel assignment, GREAT SOLUTION!!!

(Rant Mode On)
NTSC/PAL/SECAM (sCARE Plant??) I can tell you this much, LCG will not be going to Squaw. sCARE/Golden may even get the tower land converted to open space. But if this happens, the 4 towers WILL remain on Lookout, They WILL continue to broadcast an NTSC signal until the FCC forces a conversion and then the towers WILL BE converted to ATSC towers from inside the building and there aint a D**N thing sCARE/Golden/Jeffco/Judge Jackson can do to stop this.

The conversion will happen quietly, and the only way anyone will know it happened is that the NTSC signal will no longer be there and an ATSC signal will appear from Lookout. Once this happens, I am sure that sCARE/Golden will seek an injunction to stop the signal. Unfortunately, Jefferson County has not put a stop to the HD Radio signals emanating from Lookout, this will provide LCG and the stations with all the ammunition they need to say that their service change is no different than HD Radio.

At the end of this trial, no judge will be interested in shutting off TV service to the entire city, so they will not place an injunction on the broadcasters. I am sure there will be appeals and this may reach the highest court in the land, but Jeffco's failure to fight HD radio transition will be their downfall.

I am more confident than ever that this is what will happen (I have resigned myself to this fate).

So what will you gain from this set of events sCARE? Congratulations, you get to keep the four towers that are on Lookout today (you may loose the Doppler radar tower but if I were KCNC I would leave it to spite you). You also gain no power to force the broadcasters to test for signal over saturation at your home. You have done nothing to improve Lookout/Golden/your health (even if there is no evidence of a health risk). Nice work...... IDIOTS!
(Rant Mode Off)

-Matt

I know this is a silly question but is there any other mountains that are north of the metro area that could not have the shadowing of Squaw? being a Larimer county person I would go and brow beat my local government if it meant better OTA and still cover all Denver metro as well? Yes I still think that Lookout is THE solution just wondering that is all. Longs Peak? I don't have a topo map in front of me just wondering.

I agree with Matt for the most part. Personally I think the key to the switchover is that the LCG stations NEVER broadcast both signals simultaneously from Lookout. They continue with the NTSC from Lookout until they are given the order to switch over from the FCC. Once the FCC orders the changeover, they can switch and make the obvious claim it is the same service with the change in modulation simply due to an FCC order. At that point I think Golden and (S)CARE can chase it to court all they want, and maybe even get it shut down for a time (imagine Denver without OTA of any kind for a few months, since the FCC will never allow the continuation of analog). At that point I think, no matter how long it may take the courts to decide the LCG will eventually win. The key is that they do not broadcast digital from Lookout ever simultaneously with analog, and they do not switch over until they receive the absolute final order from the FCC. By doing this, (coupled with the fact, as Matt mentioned, that Jeffco did not object to other services converting from analog to digitial on the same Mountain), the LCG has a pretty sound and compelling argument that they are providing the same service as before as mandated by FCC regulations. That's just my read on this thing, YMMV.

And a shameless attempt to get the top of page 500, John ;)

And a shameless attempt to get the top of page 500, John ;)
Geez, I was hoping it wasn't that obvious...... :D .....and besides that, it was just there staring at me....hey, somebody had to nab that spot. After all, I think I posted at least one or two actually pertinent posts over those 500 pages. Jut because I have now become the resident 'curmudgeon' doesn't mean I can't post, it just means no one wants to read my 'occasionally pessimistic' view of the world of OTA in Denver. Actually I prefer to think my views are just simply pragmatic than pessimistic.
:cool:

(Rant Mode On)

Nice work...... IDIOTS!

(Rant Mode Off)

-MattWell put!

Changing the subject, does any here have the new AT9 and H20 Directv setup. If so, I need to get antenna pointing info for 14075.

I don't read this thread much anymore but it sounds like you guys enjoyed the tour. Unfortunately, it also sounds like nothing much has changed.

I'll add my two cents to this never ending saga.

Originally posted by JMartinko:
The key is that they do not broadcast digital from Lookout ever simultaneously with analog, and they do not switch over until they receive the absolute final order from the FCC. By doing this, (coupled with the fact, as Matt mentioned, that Jeffco did not object to other services converting from analog to digitial on the same Mountain), the LCG has a pretty sound and compelling argument that they are providing the same service as before as mandated by FCC regulations.

While I agree that what may happen is the LCG stations may flash cut to digital on the existing towers in 2009, I don't believe they won't do it earlier (or in 2009, or anytime) because of the same service argument. While I have limited knowledge on this topic, and I stress limited, I believe the current radio stations that broadcast a digital signal do so by embedding it within their existing bandwith. Apparently there is enough room in the bandwith for both analog and digital signals. The concept is called "In Band On Channel" (IBOG). These stations have not converted from analog to digital. They're doing both, within their allotted bandwith. If they stopped analog, they'd have that bandwith for multicasting, data transmissions, etc. IF this is correct, there should not be any concern, standing alone, regarding shutting off analog before digital transmissions can occur since the radio stations are doing both right now. So I believe it's more accurate to state that JeffCo has allowed simultaneous analog and digital radio broadcasts, rather than stating that they have allowed a conversion from analog to digital. Don't know if that really matters, though.

I think the "keys" involve other issues. The existing towers may not be able to hold an additional digital transmitter without reinforcing the towers. There is probably a need for installation of new equipment in new buildings. These items probably require building permits which JeffCo isn't going to issue at this time. While I think it's minor, there's also the issue of additional radiation from adding digital transmissions to Lookout at this time.

Remember, there already was a mandate from the FCC for full power digital transmissions as of June 2005 for the Big 4. Channels 4, 7, and 9 didn't meet that deadline and the mandate had no effect on resolving this issue. Likewise, channel 20 isn't going to meet the upcoming July 2006 full power non-Big 4 deadline either. So I don't put much faith in FCC mandates.

And if we all believe that digital after analog shutoff is the same service, I think it's also the same service before analog shutoff. The digital service doesn't change. The only change is that analog gets shut off as of 2009.

I think the "keys" involve other issues. The existing towers may not be able to hold an additional digital transmitter without reinforcing the towers. There is probably a need for installation of new equipment in new buildings. These items probably require building permits which JeffCo isn't going to issue at this time. While I think it's minor, there's also the issue of additional radiation from adding digital transmissions to Lookout at this time.
Yes and no. To do digital and analog at the same time, they'd need to add equipment to their existing towers. They aren't allowed to add equipment to their tower, only replace broken equipment. As to what equipment they put in their buildings - that's completely up to the stations and does not require permissino from JeffCo.

Part of the issue with NOT broadcasting simultaneously, IMO, is that they do NOT change any antennas or external structure to the buildings. I also would bet (can't say for sure) that they would have to apply for a permit for more prime electrical power to supply both signals as well, also not likely to be approved by Jeffco. Once the FCC rules that analog MUST be shut off, the stations can simply have the equipment in place and flip the switch. At that point (I assume they can temporarily fit it all under the same roof without building modifications), the only thing changed is the modulation scheme and they changed that by order from the FCC. The whole process would be totally transparent to Jeffco residents and commissioners offices, unless you are using a TV receiver. In addition, I really believe the 'same service' argument might be vulnerable in court if they provided both services simultaneously. I am not arguing from a technical standpoint as much as from what I see as the legal issues involved. Dual services simultaneously would weaken the legal argument for same service in my mind. I am not a lawyer and have not played one on TV, but I have slept at a Holiday Inn Express. As I said that is just my $0.02.

dr_mal & JMartinko, thanks for the additional comments.

Yes and no. To do digital and analog at the same time, they'd need to add equipment to their existing towers. They aren't allowed to add equipment to their tower, only replace broken equipment. As to what equipment they put in their buildings - that's completely up to the stations and does not require permissino from JeffCo.

I think we're saying the same thing. No building permits! My point about addtional equipment in the buildings was that they couldn't do that if they needed a building permit - e.g. additional electrical lines.

In addition, I really believe the 'same service' argument might be vulnerable in court if they provided both services simultaneously.

You may by right, but the only point I was trying to make is that providing analog and digital at the same time may not equate to same service as we on this forum tend to understand that term, as exemplified by the radio stations using IBOC.

I also am not a lawyer, etc. but I have never slept at a Holiday Inn Express. I'm done now!

Mike,

One could argue that since the Radio stations are transmitting 2 different signals (I agree that IBOC is on the same frequency, but it is also a different service and will soon be multiple services on each channel) they are violating a rule about same service for their non conforming zoning. This is the argument that sCARE and Golden have made about the conversion from analog to digital, they insist that this is a different service.

The channel content will be the same (unless multicasting occurs), the channel number will be the same, even the frequency will be the same. HD Radio is the same content as analog, beginning to offer multicast options and are on the same frequency. Were is the difference?

-Matt

I'll add my two cents to this never ending saga..................................
Remember, there already was a mandate from the FCC for full power digital transmissions as of June 2005 for the Big 4. Channels 4, 7, and 9 didn't meet that deadline and the mandate had no effect on resolving this issue. Likewise, channel 20 isn't going to meet the upcoming July 2006 full power non-Big 4 deadline either. So I don't put much faith in FCC mandates.
.....................
First of all, the stations were granted an exemption from broadcasting full power so far, just as at least a ?hundred? other stations around the country have been. Their temporary transmissions from the RP have been determined to be acceptable and given temporary transmission status so far by the FCC. So, in effect, the FCC has said that at least for now, the stations have indeed satisfied the FCC mandate. Now whether we would all agree with that (expecially those in Ft. Collins or other outlying areas) is another matter, but at least as far as the FCC is concerned, for now the stations satisfy the mandate provided they are showing 'due dilligence' (which again we might argue) in their attempt to be online at full power. Remember, the FCC is also trying its best to make this mandate a 'soft' changeover from the standpoint of the consumer, so granting extensions and temporary services does, in its own twisted way, somehow fit in to the FCC model of this transition mandate. As for dual transmission, I don't know for a fact, but I don't think you could do both ATSC and NTSC on the same channel carrier without cross 'channel' interference, or at the very least, a huge increase in transmitter power.



EDIT: BTW, does anyone know what my prize is for 'shamelessly' grabbing the first post on page 500? I was hoping for a two week vacation in Hawaii, preferrably with return tickets also provided......or at the very least a new 80 inch Plasma set. I need to make sure I am at home to receive my prize when it arrives.
:D

non conforming zoning. I'm not sure the FM towers broadcasting HD radio are in the same MR-1 zoning, and hence "legal non-conforming", as the TV station towers. Does anyone know?

John, your prize won't 'arrive' at your home until Feb 2009 -- you might be surprised what it is. ;)

Geof, good to see you're still kicking. What's your DTV landscape like now?

BTW, does anyone know what my prize is for 'shamelessly' grabbing the first post on page 500? I was hoping for a two week vacation in Hawaii, preferrably with return tickets also provided......or at the very least a new 80 inch Plasma set. I need to make sure I am at home to receive my prize when it arrives.
:D

Contest rules stipulate that to achieve eligibility status for any Grand Prize, qualified entries, in addition collecting 1st 500th Page Post, must also claim Post #15,000...
:D

Contest rules stipulate that to achieve eligibility status for any Grand Prize, qualified entries, in addition collecting 1st 500th Page Post, must also claim Post #15,000...
:D
Don't tempt me, I am just evil enough to post about 20 straight postings tonight.
;)

Too bad they both didn't occur on the same post.

I came across a listing for a RTN affiliate in Denver that listed channel 11 as their digital channel assignment.

Denver, CO
KDEV 39 / KDEV-DT 11

Anybody know anything about this station?

Congratulations John :D

I came across a listing for a RTN affiliate in Denver that listed channel 11 as their digital channel assignment.

Denver, CO
KDEV 39 / KDEV-DT 11

Anybody know anything about this station?

ANAICT, KDEV is an LP station broadcasting out of Cheyenne. It appears their DT transmitter is out of Fort Collins and they make use of numerous translators for their analog signal. They are owned by Equity Broadcasting which also owns the ABC affiliate in Cheyenne, KTWO (channel 2, of course.) Equity specializes in stations providing Hispanic and Asian television programming.

I'm not sure the FM towers broadcasting HD radio are in the same MR-1 zoning, and hence "legal non-conforming", as the TV station towers. Does anyone know?



Ron, You may have helped me to stick my foot deep into my mouth. I could have sworn that several radio towers were non-conforming, if I am wrong then I am an idiot and LCG may be in more trouble than I thought.

I would really like to know if any of the radio towers are non-conforming. If they are, are the stations on the tower currently broadcasting an IBOC digital radio signal.

I can find out what stations in Denver are boadcasting in HD (it is easy to find at HDRADIO.org or .com), I just don't know were to look for the tower zoning.

-Matt

Geof, good to see you're still kicking. What's your DTV landscape like now?Well I don't want to hijack this thread too far but I think it's going to be much better than it is at my Colorado home. I can't pick up any of the Republic Plaza stations anymore. I have been busy building the NY house and haven't even tried OTA yet but I have LOS to one tower and and probably a 2nd major tower (thru a few trees). Unfortunately the towers are separated by about 90 degrees so I will have some experimenting to do. I was going to just get cable (and drop Directv) until Adelphia informed me they "only" wanted $765 to run cable to the house (and that is after a $300 credit I'd get if I got full service). Since Adelphia is in bankruptcy and will become Time Warner sometime in the next few months I'm going to hold out to see if I can get a better deal. On top of that Verizon has trucks all over town installing fiber and it looks like FIOS is going to be available this summer/fall and I've been told (by the cable guy no less) that they will be doing TV as well. So it looks like I may have some options down the road. In the interim I'll be sticking with D* and HD Lite. Unfortunately it also looks like I'll be relegated to dial up internet since DSL is not available so I'm hoping FIOS becomes an option real soon. I hope to try OTA next week so I'll know more then....

In the meantime I need someone to plug in 14075 in the D* H20 receiver so I can get elevation and tilt for the new AT9 antenna.

Is the Judge still set to rule on LCG2 come June/July??

Geof,
Yes, last I heard from LCG, Jackson should rule in July. And they have been in private negociations with the Judge, so that is my assessment of why Golden has rushed their hostile take-over. The discussions must be not going well for Golden/JeffCo.

Geof,
Yes, last I heard from LCG, Jackson should rule in July. And they have been in private negociations with the Judge, so that is my assessment of why Golden has rushed their hostile take-over. The discussions must be not going well for Golden/JeffCo.Thanks Ernie. I hope the voters hold their city government accountable for this nonsense. It's amazing what results from a little power coupled with ego.

Matt,

My comments about same service were made merely to highlight the fact that this issue is not settled, or even if it is an issue. I do not know what "official" definition of "same service" anyone may be relying upon. To use a simile, if my household trash is picked up by ABC Co, that uses diesel powered trucks, on Mondays, and I change to XYZ Co, that uses gasoline powered trucks, on Thursdays, I am receiving the same service after the switch. So unless the non-conforming zoning for the towers specifically cites items such as analog signals and specific frequencies, which I doubt since, when the zoning originally took place, there was no such thing as a digital broadcast, IMHO broadcasting a digital signal on a different frequency is same service - the electronic delivery of programming. I think this is a form over substance issue. The form - analog vs digital, one frequency vs another - does not affect the substance - an electronic signal transmitting information.

John,

I agree with most of what you said. What I was trying to say in my post was that the FCC has not been a player in this situation even though I think they should be. I don't recollect the exact date, but I seem to remember sometime in the late 90's the FCC threw out some proposed rules for comment for settling local zoning issues such as we have here to assure that digital transition was not hampered by nimby's. That was the last we heard from the FCC about this. They apparently don't want to get involved, at least not yet, when they can just extend STA's all of the time. I suppose they could just extend channels 4, 7, 9, & 20's STA's well past 2009 if they want to, as long as analog is shut off. That's a possibility no one has raised. KOAA, a Big 4 affiliate in the Springs and in the Top 100 DMA's, doesn't even have an STA transmission yet. That station may not be on the air for months yet. What has the FCC done? Absolutely nothing!

And I do have a timeshare in Maui, but you'll have to convince me with a lot more than post 500 to part with it. :D :D

Part of the issue with NOT broadcasting simultaneously, IMO, is that they do NOT change any antennas or external structure to the buildings. I also would bet (can't say for sure) that they would have to apply for a permit for more prime electrical power to supply both signals as well, also not likely to be approved by Jeffco. Once the FCC rules that analog MUST be shut off, the stations can simply have the equipment in place and flip the switch. At that point (I assume they can temporarily fit it all under the same roof without building modifications), the only thing changed is the modulation scheme and they changed that by order from the FCC.

Since the digital signals are in the UHF band for the 4 majors, won't this require antenna modifications? Granted, you can get an impedence match from a coathanger with the proper matching network, but at a big loss of efficiency. I believe they could simply switch over and have a signal that is better than RP, but not as good as the current Lookout Mountain signals. What then? Do they simply saw through the existing antenna part way and wait for a high wind so they can claim storm damage??

The form - analog vs digital, one frequency vs another - does not affect the substance - an electronic signal transmitting information.



Except that one frequency vs another does matter because antennas are frequency specific. Of course, if the broadcasters transmit ATSC on their NTSC frequencies in Feb 2009, there's no frequency change and no antenna change required.



I don't recollect the exact date, but I seem to remember sometime in the late 90's the FCC threw out some proposed rules for comment for settling local zoning issues such as we have here to assure that digital transition was not hampered by nimby's.



Yes, the FCC decided not to override local zoning issues in that rule making process that happened in the late 90s. One of my earlier posts in this forum has the FCC docket number of that (lack of) rule making.

The fortunate thing for us in Larimer and Weld counties is that the stations in Feb 2009 will be required to serve the same footprint as their existing NTSC broadcasts with an ATSC signal. That requirement will prevent the broadcasters from abandoning us northerners altogether in 2009.

On a sarcastic note, same service analog vs digital: wouldn't that mean replacing an NTSC broadcast with a single 480i ATSC broadcast and leaving the other ~16Mbps of DTV bandwidth empty?

-Glen

Do they simply saw through the existing antenna part way and wait for a high wind so they can claim storm damage??

Hmm, shorter antennas. Maybe someone should point out to sCARE that this means less radiation too. :)

-Glen

Anyone else going to the LCG open house in Fort Collins Wednesday night? I'm going.

-Glen

Since the digital signals are in the UHF band for the 4 majors, won't this require antenna modifications? Granted, you can get an impedence match from a coathanger with the proper matching network, but at a big loss of efficiency. I believe they could simply switch over and have a signal that is better than RP, but not as good as the current Lookout Mountain signals. What then? Do they simply saw through the existing antenna part way and wait for a high wind so they can claim storm damage??

If I am not mistaken, the stations can choose to keep their current analog channel assignments (KUSA stays with channel 9, KMGH stays on 7 etc.) for their digital signal when the conversion takes place. If I am not mistaken, KUSA has elected to stay on their analog assignment upon conversion.

If this is true, then all the LCG stations would need to submit a request to the FCC to keep their analog assignment (I believe that the FCC has already received the station requests but I am sure that our extenuating circumstances would alow for a late submission). This would mean that their current antennas would work fine.

-Matt

Unfortunately it also looks like I'll be relegated to dial up internet since DSL is not available ...
In the meantime I need someone to plug in 14075 in the D* H20 receiver so I can get elevation and tilt for the new AT9 antenna.
See if wireless is available for internet. I'm rural with no cable, fiber, or DSL in my area, but oddly enough I have 3 wireless internet providers that cover my area.

I assumed Martinko answered your elev/az/tilt question in a PM -- he just got a new AT9 dish and 2 receivers from D*. We are supposed to get locals on D* by June. PM him.

Matt,

You are correct for channels 7 & 9. However, channel 4 elected to stay on its STA channel 35 due to issues, I presume, with low band VHF and interference. Channel 20 also elected to stay on its STA, channel 19.

Glen,

You're right, the existing analog footprint (coverage area) should be replicated with the digital signal, absent interference concerns, such as those experienced by WJZ in Baltimore staying on channel 13, a potential conflict between a Philly and Harrisburg station wanting the same high VHF channel, and Canadian border cities. But the point I was trying to make was that the FCC has done diddly to date, so what would make me think the FCC will enforce this requirement in lieu of looking the other way with every other requirement so far?

As far as NTSC vs ATSC @480i, once again, that touches upon what is "same service", of which I don't have an answer to. The simple answer I offered was basically electronic transmission of data. The only requirement is that NTSC cease in favor of ATSC and I don't believe there is any other requirement other than it be digital - HD 720p, 1080i, or 1080p is optional.

I assumed Martinko answered your elev/az/tilt question in a PM -- he just got a new AT9 dish and 2 receivers from D*. We are supposed to get locals on D* by June. PM him.
You assume correctly.

Edit
Darn, only 14998. OK, whose gonna go4it?
:D

When color TV was introduced did that constitute same service or were new permits required?

Same service

:D Yeah baby -- post #15,000!