Denver, CO - OTA [Text View] - Page 67

keithsimp

09-21-06, 12:41 AM

Did anyone make it to CEDIA or the party last week?? If so, any reports???

Yes I did, 2 1/2 days at CEDIA plus the ever famous AVS party.
All I can say is "the future's so bright you gotta wear shades".
OK so it's not original but I couldn't think of anything else.
Lot's of 1080p projectors, all great eye candy for sure.
Saw the HDNet folks there filming, so hopefully we'll see some of that soon. They may have already done some reports, but I haven't been watching lately.
Anyway here my impressions:

LCOS 3 chips from Sony and JVC, looked very good, they've almost caught up with DLP for contrast and blacks. JVC was the brightest and best looking, IMHO.
DLP 3 chippers, SIM and Digital Projection looked awesome, but are out of my price range.
Lots of Blu Ray, more than HD DVD. Both looked great.
LCD projectors are getting better, but not quite there yet. The Mits HC5000 was the best of that technology.

The AVS party was great with both good food and drink. A merry time was had by all. They had Paris Hilton and Pamela Anderson look alikes at the party, hubba-hubba. Very impressive :p
Those people that have been holding out for the new 1080p projectors, plasmas, etc. will be pleasantly surprised by all of the offerings that will be out there shortly, be patient.
If anyone has specific questions please feel free to PM me so we don't clog up this thread with CEDIA stuff.

Sandwedg

09-21-06, 11:01 AM

Well KRMA-DT appears to be back now, for anyone who was really missing the Create channel.

It's still out for me, as of last night. Weird.... KRMA had just about the strongest signal that I (used to) receive.

CEB II

09-21-06, 03:40 PM

It's still out for me, as of last night. Weird.... KRMA had just about the strongest signal that I (used to) receive.

KRMA-DT is working today for me, but KBDI-DT is AWOL. Not a peep of signal on 38.

roller11

09-21-06, 05:00 PM

Actually, I thought just the opposite. Last year, the Fox football broadcasts were outstanding but yesterday I thought it was very soft. I agree, though, with the other poster that the Broncos game was very color saturated and Shanahan looked very reddish/orangish. I was going to do some on-the-fly color adjustments but then thought that maybe he really was that red given the performance of the offense! :)

Fox has always looked very bad compared to CBS, but there's more to it than that.
Every FOX NFL game vacillates randomly between two resolutions. Most of the time in
what appears to be 1280x720, but at random times becomes down rezed. This
downreazzing lasts for something in the range of .5 to a couple of
minutes, then the rez goes back to normal, and these low rez periods happen
10-15 times per game. However, on Sunday Sep.17, the downrezzing happened
about 7 minutes before half time, and lasted for the remainder of the game.
It will be interesting to see if this low resolution mode will be permanent and
exist for 100% of each game from now on, or will FOX go back to
vacillating between lo and hi rez, guess we'll find out Sunday Sep.14.
If lo res is permanent, I won't watch any more FOX NFL games cause the
lo rez is so ugly I can't stand to watch it.
Now, before someone says "it's the camera that's being used", no, it has nothing to do with the camera. When the downrezzing occurs, it is typically on the main camera which is hi def.

Jeremy Tebo

09-21-06, 05:26 PM

If lo res is permanent, I won't watch any more FOX NFL games cause the lo rez is so ugly I can't stand to watch it.

Don't get me wrong, I love HD as much as the next guy, but to not watch a good football game because the PQ isn't good enough seems silly to me. I guess I'm just a bigger fan of football than I am of HD, because I would watch it on a 9" black and white with bunny ears if that's all I could get.

jayn_j

09-21-06, 06:17 PM

There was a small article in today's Denver Post. Probably not good news for those hoping for a quick resolution

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4369216

Radiofrequency radiation levels questioned
By Ann Schrader
Denver Post Staff Writer

Lookout Mountain residents who live closer to or can see the broadcast towers have higher radiofrequency levels in their homes that people who live farther away, according to a published Colorado State University study.

A second CSU study, which has not been published, found radiofrequency radiation on Lookout Mountain did not decrease one immune system hormone, but did increase some types of immune system white-blood cells.

The results, said Jim Burch, one of the studies' authors, "have to be interpreted with some caution" and are still being evaluated.

Debate about possible health effects from living near the Lookout Mountain towers has been raised frequently during the seven years that a consortium of Denver TV stations have sought to replace three towers and build a 730-foot-high tower.

"The people up there want some kind of definitive answer about that, and unfortunately, the results don't provide that," Burch said Wednesday.

The results "raise more questions, but that's the nature of science," Burch said. "We get what we get."

Opponents and proponents of the tower rezoning pointed to aspects of the studies to support their cases.

Residents have "biological effects from increased broadcast radiation exposure," said Deb Carney, attorney for the main opponent group, Canyon Area Residents for the Environment.

Carney said the published study confirms that those living near the towers are subjected to high radiation levels.
Marv Rockford, spokesman for the TV consortium, said the results are "a corroboration of what we have said all along - that we are far, far, far below the levels (of radiofrequency radiation) regulated by the federal government ... and there is no evidence of an impact on health."

What impact the studies, which were conducted in 2002 and 2003 under National Institutes of Health grants, could have on the tower rezoning is not clear.

After repeated challenges in court, the Jefferson County commissioners were told by District Court Judge Brooke Jackson in May to make a decision. The county board has not indicated when it will do so.

Staff writer Ann Schrader can be reached at 303-278-3217 or aschrader@denverpost.com.

santellavision

09-22-06, 09:36 AM

The Rocky has a story on the same report...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5012017,00.html
A long-awaited study suggests living close to radio and television towers possibly could affect people's health, but does little to settle debate over whether a proposed tower should be built on Lookout Mountain.

The study, the first to examine the possible effects of radio frequency emissions, indicates a possible link between proximity of homes to radio and television broadcast devices and biological effects of radio frequency exposure, but one of its authors said many questions remain.

"Just like all good scientific research, more questions have been raised than answered," said James B. Burch of the University of South Carolina's Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics.

"I don't know that we have the data to make the determination of just exactly what it means, or exactly what is going on, or whether it is significant or not," Burch said.

For years, opponents of proposals to place digital television broadcast transmitters on a tower atop Lookout Mountain have argued that the RF emissions from the towers are endangering the health of nearby residents.

That is disputed by supporters of broadcasters, who are under a federal mandate to provide free, over-the-airwaves high definition television broadcasts.

Lake Cedar Group, a consortium of four local television stations, wants to build a 730-foot broadcast tower to house the HDTV transmitters on a 65-acre site atop the mountain.

Three existing towers would be removed if the plan is approved.

The Lake Cedar application was approved by former Jefferson County commissioners in 2003, but it has been returned twice for further consideration by a district court judge.

Commissioners have not set a hearing date to respond to the latest court remand.

The study, conducted by Burch and other researchers at Colorado State University and the University of Washington in Seattle, measured the production of "markers" believed to play significant roles in the human immune system.

"A robust immune system is important for people who have cancer. It is thought that the immune system plays a role in tumor surveillance, detecting microscopic tumors, and eliminating them before they become cancerous growths," Burch said.

Previous studies by the Colorado Department of Health and Environment found increases in tumors among residents of two areas on Lookout Mountain, but found no conclusive link between the cancers and the broadcast towers.

The new study found the closer people live to the towers the higher their exposure to radio frequency emissions.

The study indicates changes in immune system markers such as white blood cells, lymphocytes and T-cells could be related to increased RF levels because the markers "were all significantly increased among persons" in the highest areas of exposure as compared with those in the areas of lowest RF exposure.

"The study shows there are biological effects that are associated with increased RF power densities within the homes," Burch said. "But what does an increase in immune markers mean? Those are difficult things to interpret."

The study indicates people with lower than normal levels of melatonin may be more susceptible to the effects of RF radiation, Burch said.

But he also said the results of the study could be "a spurious finding" or could mean there is a direct biological effect.

Melatonin regulates the sleep cycle and is associated with the performance of the human immune system.

The increased counts of white blood cells, lymphocytes and T-cells, which are a type of lymphocytes, usually signal viral infections, said Dr. Mark Johnson of the Jefferson County Department of Health and Environment.

The level of the increased markers found by the study is within the normal range of variance from person to person, Johnson said.

The study means any decision on the tower should be approached with caution, said Deb Carney, spokeswoman for Canyon Area Residents for the Environment.

"We are seeing warning signs. If you wait until it is absolutely 100 percent certain that it does something to us, then there has been a whole lot of harm done in the meantime," Carney said.

Marv Rockford, spokesman for the broadcaster's group, said the study furthers Lake Cedar's position that no link exists between the Lookout Mountain broadcast devices and health risks.

"I would support the statement that this has to be weighed against the vast body of research that has been done in this area, which . . . does not support the contention that there is any adverse impact on health from exposure to RF below the safety guidelines," Rockford said.

Dave6833

09-22-06, 09:56 AM

"The new study found the closer people live to the towers the higher their exposure to radio frequency emissions."

And the closer you live to a freeway, the worse the traffic noise. Or the higher elevation you live at, the thinner the air. Or the closer to a feed lot, the worse the smell.

This is basic physics. For a couple thousand dollars I probably could have come to the same conclusion.

ktmglen

09-22-06, 11:42 AM

Unless the study is a double blind study, it's just anecdotal. They would need two populations of people both living next to transmission towers. In the first group, television is being broadcast. In the second group, the towers are turned off. Neither group knows if its towers are on or off and both groups are antsy about living next to towers.

The sCARE people are such hypochondriacs they could be making themselves sick and it might not have anything to do with RF.

-Glen

oxothuk

09-22-06, 12:05 PM

And the closer you live to a freeway, the worse the traffic noise. Or the higher elevation you live at, the thinner the air. Or the closer to a feed lot, the worse the smell.

This is basic physics. For a couple thousand dollars I probably could have come to the same conclusion.Exactly. And what the sCare people never really try to explain is why broadcast TV radiation is only dangerous in Colorado, while it has never been a problem to have broadcast towers in the middle of NEW YORK CITY.

jayn_j

09-22-06, 12:53 PM

Exactly. And what the sCare people never really try to explain is why broadcast TV radiation is only dangerous in Colorado, while it has never been a problem to have broadcast towers in the middle of NEW YORK CITY.

All true and I never disputed it.

However, it isn't about facts. This report will be used by the sCARE folks to help sway a judge and county commissioners that already tend to sympatize with them. LCG is going to be forced to react to this report. I find the part about slightly increased white counts to be the most damning as it can and will be used as "proof" that there are health threats.

oxothuk

09-22-06, 02:14 PM

However, it isn't about facts. This report will be used by the sCARE folks to help sway a judge and county commissioners that already tend to sympatize with them. LCG is going to be forced to react to this report. I find the part about slightly increased white counts to be the most damning as it can and will be used as "proof" that there are health threats.Yes. And unfortunately "studies" and junk science like this are available in unlimited supply.

Do these people also realize that Clear Creek has extremely high concentrations of di-hydrogen monoxide downstream from the Coors plant?

patrickjherbert

09-22-06, 03:36 PM

Do these people also realize that Clear Creek has extremely high concentrations of di-hydrogen monoxide downstream from the Coors plant?

...yes, and Coors Beer proved to be a deadly toxin to many hundreds of fish when accidently dumped into Clear Creek a few years ago.

Remember when microwave ovens were emitting deadly radiation that was going to kill us? How about brain tumors caused by cell phones? Power lines? Radon gas? You don't hear much hysteria about any of those these days.

I wonder how many folks up the hill have one of those dangerous things in or near their home?

If I suspected that my family was in danger from any source, I would do what was necessary to mitigate the threat. In this case, move. For me that is the proof of how seriously they really take this perceived threat. I've said many times that I find the McMansions polluting the view up there much more loathsome than the towers, which have been there much longer than any of the current residents. Follow the money. If we were talking about a tower location in the middle of a shanty town, well, this thread would been archieved a long time ago.

RonAuger

09-22-06, 05:42 PM

And what the sCare people never really try to explain is why broadcast TV radiation is only dangerous in Colorado, while it has never been a problem to have broadcast towers in the middle of NEW YORK CITY.Not to mention the fact that the television stations only contribute something like 5% of the total RF output from Lookout Mtn.

Smuuth

09-22-06, 11:14 PM

Do these people also realize that Clear Creek has extremely high concentrations of di-hydrogen monoxide downstream from the Coors plant?Snark... That di-hydrogen monoxide stuff would be H2O? :)

longrider

09-23-06, 12:14 AM

Check out this site (http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html) for all the facts and hazards of dihydrogen monoxide :) ;)

TheBert

09-23-06, 07:19 AM

[QUOTE=Dave6833]And the closer you live to a freeway, the worse the traffic noise. Or the higher elevation you live at, the thinner the air. Or the closer to a feed lot, the worse the smell.

That is awesome. Nice Dave :D

kenglish

09-23-06, 10:24 AM

Interesting that they say this is the "first" study like this. It has been noted in the past that engineers who work in very close proximity to RF, such as inside transmitter buildings and climbing towers on a regular basis, have a very small increase in certain types of non-cancerous tumors and such. Many engineers have been known to joke about how it can't be too bad for your reproductive health, though, since they have so many kids.

Just wonder how many (S)CARE people immediately slapped their (cell-phone) RF transmitters and antennas up a'side their heads and called their friends about it, thereby increasing their numbers of "markers" significantly.

santellavision

09-23-06, 11:11 AM

The study's totally bogus. As all our lifestyles are changing simultaneously. You can't tie an increase in health effects to towers as residents are also effected by the results of the increase in both cell phone use & emissions and home and business wi-fi use. You can't seperate all these possible causes and point to one.
And what the sCare people never really try to explain is why broadcast TV radiation is only dangerous in Colorado, while it has never been a problem to have broadcast towers in the middle of NEW YORK CITY. sCARE's answer to this has been, in our area, people's homes are at the sme altitude as the tower height. So, people are 'in-the-beam' so to speak of the antenna, not below the antenna.

The proposed LCGII consolidation tower will use directional antennas that will focus the signals away from the west and homes. Thus, no more residents will be 'in-the-beam'. So, that argument has been neturalized. And is a positive for the LCG application as the alternative is to continue the use of the old 'omni' directional antennas on the existing towers.

RonAuger

09-23-06, 12:48 PM

The proposed LCGII consolidation tower will use directional antennas that will focus the signals away from the west and homes. Thus, no more residents will be 'in-the-beam'. So, that argument has been neturalized. Yeah -- and it never ceases to be a source of irritation to me that ALL (s)CARE arguments are neutralized, yet here we still are with nothing accomplished in many years. :confused: :( :mad:

jayn_j

09-23-06, 07:54 PM

Yeah -- and it never ceases to be a source of irritation to me that ALL (s)CARE arguments are neutralized, yet here we still are with nothing accomplished in many years. :confused: :( :mad:

It could very well be because the LCG and the rest of us look at these tactics and immediately realize they are bogus. Thus we don't react quickly enough to counter them. The results are sent to Golden and the Jeffco Commissioners, as well as other idiot^h^h^h^h^h public officials who use them to make political hay.

LGC needs to spread a few studies of their own, like how entire cities can be placed in jeopardy by lack of emergency communications.

pezjohnson

09-23-06, 08:50 PM

Question for the group, mainly for the people NEAR the Parker area: We are buying our first house. It's a town home right behind Red Hawk Ridge Elementary, which is very close to Parker Road and Broncos Parkway. I have E*, but I'm using a small indoor attenna to get the OTA signal (surprisingly well) in my apartment. This new home is just about 1 mile further south and east of my apartment in relation to RP. Should I just go ahead and buy E* locals? Or is there any one in that area that is receiving OTA HD. If so, with what. We've all seen the FCC vs. HOA regulations in this thread, so I'm not worried about putting up anything, just looking for the free way out if I can. Thanks
Dave

RonAuger

09-24-06, 12:15 PM

pez,
If i understand you correctly, you are getting OTA now with an indoor antenna and you are only moving 1 mile away. I think chances are good. It may be best to wait until you are moved and just try your current setup. You can always try other antennas afterwards. I'm 15 miles SE of downtown Parker and get all but KCNC with an attic mount.

jsauser11

09-24-06, 03:14 PM

sfeitler

09-24-06, 06:52 PM

santellavision

09-24-06, 07:00 PM

Sometimes it's a matter of moving the antenna just a few inches in any given direction. And, you should also try without the amp in-line. Amplifiers can also overload with all the other Analog UHF signals in our area.

Lastly, there should be a way on your receiver to add locals one at a time. This way you don't have to wait for the re-scan to run all the way through. (Saves a lot of time)

Did I mention having a lot of alcohol on hand - haha!

oxothuk

09-24-06, 10:01 PM

My husband is on the roof right now trying to move the antenna. He has our receiver and a little tv up there to do rescanning as he moves the antenna--so there's perhaps 8-10 feet of cable between the antenna and the receiver. He's tried several spots between due south and perhaps 20 degrees east of south. So far, we only get 2-1 and sometimes 15-1, 31-1, and 29--none of which are RP, I know.Like Ernie said, ditch the amp and try tuning the channels individually. My recommendation would be to start with channel 16-1 (which will remap to 9-1, 9-2 after you get a lock) as I believe they are the strongest station on RP.

Also, does your set-top-box have a signal strength function somewhere in its menus? That will at least let you know when you are getting close.

LXIX

09-24-06, 10:10 PM

Question.

I am getting a Dolby Digital 3.0 audio signal (odd I know). My other HD stations are either sending a 5.1 signal (ABC, Fox) or a 2.0 audio signal.

Is everyone else getting only te front 3 speakers and no rears or sub effects?

-Matt

Iwanthd

09-24-06, 10:38 PM

LXIX

09-24-06, 10:46 PM

I also noticed the 3.0 from OTA KUSA 9-1. I don't know how long they have been doing this for SNF but I do not see it on any of the regular primetime HD programming. I hope this is progress toward 5.1 for KUSA.

This is actually a regression. KUSA can pass along the 5.1 audio from a live event (Olympics, football etc.). They had the 5.1 on for the first regular season game (i'll be it with many problems).

UHForever

09-24-06, 11:11 PM

I also noticed the 3.0 from OTA KUSA 9-1. I don't know how long they have been doing this for SNF but I do not see it on any of the regular primetime HD programming. I hope this is progress toward 5.1 for KUSA.

I am receiving L/C/R "3.0" DD from KUSA as well, with no Low Frequency or Surround channels...It stinks, but it's good to know I'm not alone. I too have not seen anything this weird audio-wise since the February Olympics.

Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure that LXIX is correct, this is a step backwards, as KUSA had perfect 5.1 DD audio on the SNF game a couple of weeks ago and that appears to have been messed up since then. Oh well, time to send an E-mail to KUSA.

Joe Redifer

09-25-06, 12:45 AM

Oh well, time to send an E-mail to KUSA.
They will thank you for your note.

CEB II

09-25-06, 01:42 AM

Hi,
I am attempting to watch the Chicago/Minn. game on Fox from 31-1 OTA HD, and am seeing lots of audio dropouts (about one every couple of minutes) lasting about 5 to 10 seconds each. Is anyone else experiencing this, so I can determine if it is a signal problem or equipment problem on my end?
Thanks,
Jeff :confused:

I didn't experience any sound problems with 31-1 any of the times I jumped over to check on that game. However, I encountered the usual sound problems (i.e., frequent loss of DD 5.1 going to 2.0 and back) on KCNC that I've griped about before.

Oh, and their HD PQ as usual is the softest of any of the OTA NFL broadcasts in the area. Seeing the HD PQ that KUSA put out tonight for the Bronco game I realize that KCNC's HD PQ problem isn't because it is 1080i. KUSA's HD PQ equaled that of KMGH and Fox so it isn't the broadcast resolution, it is something else. Too bad that we have to watch and listen to most Bronco games on that inferior broadcast channel.

Dave6833

09-25-06, 11:38 AM

santellavision

09-25-06, 12:08 PM

I don't think all their minds are made up. Auburn is the Swing vote and he's the one both sCARE and LCG are desperately trying to convince. So, keep sending him your letters. The more the better! There's a Commissioners Candidate Forum tonight in Golden. I'm going.

Mon., Sept. 25
6:00 - 9:00pm
Jeffco Candidate's Forum
American Mountaineering Center
710 10th Street
Golden

David_Levin

09-25-06, 01:17 PM

Star Trek TOS Remastered - Did CW2 show Miri?

I caught "Balance of Terror" (on the encore showing) and "The Devil in the Dark", but I thought "Miri" was supposed to air the same day as Balance.

Did CW2 skip it?

Couch Patato

09-25-06, 04:45 PM

It was the day before I think. I missed it too though so I'm not sure.

sunshinedawg

09-25-06, 05:38 PM

Apologies for this total newbie question!

I've been reading here a bit, and I see several people here are receiving 4-1, 7-1, and/or 9-1 in Longmont. I have an antenna on top of the house; some random stb receiver I got from circuit city; and some 10-dB amp that is meant to be used inside. I don't know much about the antenna, except it's YAGI, and it was here when we moved in, about 12 years ago.

My husband is on the roof right now trying to move the antenna. He has our receiver and a little tv up there to do rescanning as he moves the antenna--so there's perhaps 8-10 feet of cable between the antenna and the receiver. He's tried several spots between due south and perhaps 20 degrees east of south. So far, we only get 2-1 and sometimes 15-1, 31-1, and 29--none of which are RP, I know.

Is there anything to do other than move, rescan, move again? Are we foolish to try without a bigger amplifier?

Thanks,
Sarah

Depends where you are at. People on the east side of town have the most issues. I am over by Garden Acres park and get all channels. Ktvd 20-1 has been a bit shakey lately though. I don't get any RP channels without this amp (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103094&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032207&parentPage=family)
If you go this route, make sure you waterproof the connection at the antenna really well. I already had to replace it once because water got into the preamp.

Dave6833

09-25-06, 06:26 PM

Apologies for this total newbie question!

I've been reading here a bit, and I see several people here are receiving 4-1, 7-1, and/or 9-1 in Longmont...

I am NW of 17th and Alpine. I have an antenna in the attic and am currently only able to get 2 and 31. I've tried to get the RP stations but haven't had any luck. Of course, if you know the area, I'm behind a bit of a hill and the big church, which isn't helping.

I haven't tried moving the antenna outside and up. There's a forum member just SW of 17th and Alpine that is getting everything with an outside antenna on a mast. So it is possible.

Good luck!

sfeitler

09-25-06, 06:48 PM

I am NW of 17th and Alpine. I have an antenna in the attic and am currently only able to get 2 and 31. I've tried to get the RP stations but haven't had any luck. Of course, if you know the area, I'm behind a bit of a hill and the big church, which isn't helping.

I haven't tried moving the antenna outside and up. There's a forum member just SW of 17th and Alpine that is getting everything with an outside antenna on a mast. So it is possible.

Good luck!

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm at 9th and Lincoln. I haven't looked at topo data, but my perception (based on bike riding!) is that I'm at a higher elevation than the streets to the south. No really large buildings nearby, but lots of trees...

Anyway, we will probably not get a chance to play antenna games again until Saturday or Sunday. Such is life.

-Sarah

kucharsk

09-26-06, 04:18 AM

KUSA shows Extra at 2:00 AM, and it's shown in 4:3.

During the entire feed, a vertical bright blue line exists down the left hand side of the 4:3 frame (it may actually be slightly outside it as there seems to be a slight gap between the line and the program content on the left side of the picture.)

Anyone else see this? Anyone know what might be up at KUSA?

When the 4:3 content changes to that locally inserted by KUSA, the line goes away…

bikenski

09-26-06, 04:33 PM

I received a new toy today - a FujiPlus FD-USB728 USB tuner (http://mmitek.com/detail.asp?sku=FD-USB728). Pricing's not allowed to be posted, but it was purchsed at a discount from MSRP and came with free shipping.

Installed it on my laptop, stuck the el-cheapo included antenna on top of my cubicle, and was able to receive the following with a minimum of fuss:

15 KTFD-DT (15.1)
16 KUSA-DT (9.1,9.2)
17 KMGH-DT (7.1)
18 KRMA-DT (6.1)
19 KTVD-DT (20.1)
29 KDEN-DT (25.1)
32 KDVR-DT (31.1)
34 KWGN-DT (2.1,2.2)

I'm located out by I-70 and Peña Blvd. Of course it helps immensely that my cube has an unobstructed view of both downtown and Lookout.

It'll be interesting to see how reception varies in different locations around town, and it's also small enough that I can take it along when I travel to other DMAs as well.

Couch Patato

09-26-06, 10:44 PM

Nice! I could use a second HD tuner on my PC. This might be the one to get.

TheBert

09-27-06, 04:55 AM

Apologies for this total newbie question!

I've been reading here a bit, and I see several people here are receiving 4-1, 7-1, and/or 9-1 in Longmont.

Is there anything to do other than move, rescan, move again? Are we foolish to try without a bigger amplifier?

Thanks,
Sarah

Hi Sarah, I am located just south west of 17th and Alpine I am able to pull in all the RP stations and 2-1 and 31-1. I am using the Radio Shack VU-190 XR antenna with no amp. I have tried an amp in the past and lost everything. I have helped several neighbors and friends using the same antenna and have had good luck with it. Even in an attic at 66th and airport road.

Good Luck.

HDJello

09-27-06, 09:52 AM

I don't know much about the antenna, except it's YAGI, and it was here when we moved in, about 12 years ago.

There is a possibility that a better antenna would be appropriate. Most of the things you want to receive are on UHF frequencies, and anything from more than 12 years ago is at best a UHF/VHF combo. I better antenna with no preamp might go a long way towards helping. And as others have said here, you could start with a RadioShack antenna, since they let you return things if they don't work. Longer term you might have better luck with a ChannelMaster or Winnegard.

Sorry Ron, I'm at the top of the page...

RonAuger

09-27-06, 11:22 PM

Or a simple VHF trap and/or an FM trap may help with your existing antenna.
(D@mn -- you beat me to the top! That's what I get for getting a real job! ;) )

kucharsk

09-28-06, 03:57 AM

mrvideo

09-28-06, 04:27 AM

This seems par for the course given the issues KWGN had last year with their HD feed, and it looks like the transition from WB to CW hasn't helped any. :(

If the station's plant is just plain messed up, the change from WB to CW HD isn't going to make a difference. The station can use the same HD receiver, which I doubt is a cause for the problems you are seeing (CBS/CW did not supply the HD receiver, only the SD receiver).

The WB feed was not the best. The bitrate was below the max that ATSC can provide. I've seen glitches in the east coast feed that were in the exact same place in the west coast feed. Obviously the uplink was bad.

The CW, on the other hand, is using the higher quality facility in NY. The HD feed runs 35Mbps, min avg. They feed Dolby-E, DD2.0, DD5.1 and MPEG-2 audio streams. The DD5.1 stream will be DD2.0 if the program is only 2.0 stereo. Strange thing is that the CW is listing Smallville as being DD2.0. I'll have to verify that tomorrow (tonight).

In any event, the stations are receiving the best MPEG-2 HD they can get. If you are seeing crap, it is either your reception or the local station's transmission.

Oh, if you haven't done so yet, send The CW hate mail regarding the size and location of the bug. It must be WB idiots controlling the placement of the bug on the tape, as it is large and in the 4:3 area. That is exactly what the WB did and what no other network does.

pkeegan

09-28-06, 01:33 PM

So am I the only one who found that Gilmore Girls was almost unwatchable last night? Breakups once every few minutes, and some sequences of just plain messed up audio (notably when Kirk is blinded by the red light camera and drives into Luke's.)

This seems par for the course given the issues KWGN had last year with their HD feed, and it looks like the transition from WB to CW hasn't helped any. :(

I too am seeing more issues with KWGN. I had the exact issue when Kirk was blinded by the red light camera. Last night several scenes from Top Model was also unwatchable. I didn't used to have any major issues with KWGN before.

Jetlag

09-28-06, 06:08 PM

Well it seems that I have reached a true milestone, my 1000th AVS post.

Yes, my life is so dull and boring that this ranks as a most auspicious occasion *sigh*. I thought long and hard (OK, realistically about 30-40 seconds) about what kind of statement I wanted to make with post #1000, as you know my reputation has been a bit 'colorful' on AVS.

Since most of my posts have either been humorous (or at least lame attempts at humor), sarcastic, or somewhat entertaining (I was going to post some links here, but could not find my old "Basement Home Theater Builder Guy" Bud Light commercial thread, nor my "Ultimate HT Chair" thread (what good is an archive if it doesn’t really seem to be doing much archiving?)), so I came up with an alternative idea.

Why not post something useful? Hey, now I’m onto something! OK, here goes, an attempt at being useful.

You may recall when I posted the following Google Earth image, graphically depicting my concern about receiving an OTA signal once I moved because it appeared that LOS would be questionable. At a minimum it would require a combination of precision and lots of luck. The two lines represent estimated LOS from my condo roof to Lookout and RP.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lu_max/data/DTV.jpg

As you can see I would need to ‘thread-the-needle’ between a few tall buildings.

I purchased a Winegard PR-400 UHF antenna based upon THIS (http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html) information, hoping it wouldn’t be to directional nor overly susceptible to multipath. I installed it yesterday.

I named this photo “Luck.jpg” because not only does it show LOS to RP (the top is visible between the 2 brick buildings on the right side of the photo), but also LOS to Lookout (just to the left of the big pine tree). WooHoo! I also get unobstructed views of 110, 119 and 61.5 for E*.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ceht/photos/Luck.JPG

My setup is just behind the PR-4400, my neighbor’s is behind that.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ceht/photos/new_setup.JPG

The OTA coax goes into the attic and then is sent to my 2 TVs using a 2.5Ghz splitter. After hooking up one HDTV I was quite excited to find that I got 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20, 31, and 35 (although 35 was a black screen). I’ve never seen 15 before, it appeared to be a Spanish channel. Success! My other TV does not contain an ATSC tuner.

Today the technician from E* was here to install my 2 dishes (the condo association requires a “professional” installation). He gave me a free DPPlus twin for my 500 so it was worth it. Now the 61.5 feed goes to the DPPlus twin (110 & 119), then only 1 DBS coax goes to the attic along with the single feed from my OTA. There both the OTA & DBS get split and then diplexed so just one coax goes to my living room and one to the bedroom. A reversed diplexer separates the two signals for the OTA and DBS connections on my 811 (or any other E*) receiver.

All appeared to be working fine once the switch check and software download completed. We also ran a digital channel scan. Although I get all of the following digital channels at a minimum of 87% (most are greater than that), a couple of channels have vanished! Here is what my 811 currently sees:

2-01 KWGN
2-02 TUBE (Tube? What the hell is “Tube”?)
6-01 KCNC
7-01 KMGH
9-01 KUSA
9-02 WX Plus Yay!!! :rolleyes:
12-01 KBDI
12-02 KBDI
12-03 KBDI
20-01 KDEN
31-01 KDVR

My question is; what happened to 4, 15, 25 and 35? Not that I care about 15, 25 or 35, but I really want 4 back and it was happy to be here yesterday! Even when I attempted to add 4 manually it showed signal strength 0. Any ideas?

The setup we ran is standard for the new DPP LNBs. Could it be that the ATSC tuner in my HDTV is far superior to the one in the 811? Any ideas would be helpful.

Here I thought I was going to post something useful and now I need help, go figure…

***EDIT: Disregard. I turned the 811 back on and 4-01 KCNC was magically there(?). 35 is also barely there (55%) and looks like HSN or something.***

bikenski

09-28-06, 06:23 PM

Is everyone else seeing 9 News @ 4 in SD this afternoon? Not sure if the problem lies with my new USB tuner, or if their broadcast is messed up.

*edit* nevermind, went to HD sometime after 4:30

TotallyPreWired

09-28-06, 06:31 PM

Well it seems that I have reached a true milestone, my 1000th AVS post.
Congrats JL! :p

My question is; what happened to 4, 15, 25 and 35? Not that I care about 15, 25 or 35, but I really want 4 back and it was happy to be here yesterday!
You do care about 35. You should know better!
:rolleyes:

Even when I attempted to add 4 manually it showed signal strength 0. Any ideas?
Try adding 35 back! :eek:
....jc

Jetlag

09-28-06, 06:50 PM

Here is a bit of trivia for all of you:

If you look at the roof photo above you cannot help but see a boatload of vents, exhausts, etc., up there. But can you tell the difference between a furnace exhaust, bath vents, kitchen vents, attic vents and sewer vents?

The reason I ask is that if you ever find yourself working way up on a roof when that huge Venti Latte you had earlier urgently comes 'calling' and you either don't have time or are just to damn lazy to climb down the ladder, through the attic and then down 2 flights of stairs, which one of those vents could you hypothetically take a wizz down without doing any harm?

Hypothetical being the operative word here of course! ;)

squidboy

09-28-06, 06:56 PM

JMartinko

09-28-06, 07:38 PM

TotallyPreWired

09-28-06, 07:47 PM

The reason I ask is that if you ever find yourself working way up on a roof when that huge Venti Latte you had earlier urgently comes 'calling' and you either don't have time or are just to damn lazy to climb down the ladder, through the attic and then down 2 flights of stairs, which one of those vents could you hypothetically take a wizz down without doing any harm?

Hypothetical being the operative word here of course! ;)
Ok, Hypothetically, when you've had too much coffee, and leaving the cockpit is not possible, what are your options?

The traveling public might just want to know! :eek:
....jc

mrvideo

09-29-06, 12:39 AM

Any of them that are on your neighbor's side of the roof. ;)

ROTFLMAO :D

Crap, now I have the damn hiccups :)

mrvideo

09-29-06, 12:49 AM

I too am seeing more issues with KWGN. I had the exact issue when Kirk was blinded by the red light camera. Last night several scenes from Top Model was also unwatchable. I didn't used to have any major issues with KWGN before.

Well, it certainly is not the CW feed that they are receiving and placing onto a server, or tape.

I wonder if they can't handle the bitrate. The WB never ever reached 14 Mbps. The CW, on the other hand, has no trouble reaching 40 Mbps, peak, and around 35 Mbps average, for their HD feed. I normally have trouble with it, but tonight I got zero errors during the program portion of the feed.

Sorry to say that it is definately the station, and not the HD feed.

BTW, do not expect Smallville to be in DD5.1. It wasn't, just like The CW said.

markdl

09-29-06, 02:15 PM

Hey Tim,

What are all of the dishes and antennas mounted on on the roof? Are they all non-penetrating mounts of some kind, held down by just the cinder blocks? Are the blocks enough to hold down the dishes when the wind kicks up?

Oh, and congrats on reaching that 1000 milestone!

Jetlag

09-29-06, 02:41 PM

Are they all non-penetrating mounts of some kind, held down by just the cinder blocks?
Yes. There are actually a total of 4 platforms up there, each with 2 dishes on them. They are 24" X 48" and made from steel.
They look like this:
http://www.*********************/images/NPR1.jpg

Are the blocks enough to hold down the dishes when the wind kicks up?
My dishes are held down with 6 cinder blocks. If the wind is ever strong enough to move that platform or the dishes I certainly hope I am not in Denver that day! ;)

BTW the Winegard PR-4400 I am using is really performing well. For those of you looking to install an OTA antenna I recommend it, just $36 delivered. Also, for those that must put it in the attic, it's vertical profile should easily fit between the trusses.

Iwanthd

09-30-06, 12:38 AM

Best Buy is having a pretty good sale on HDTV's. I have been watching prices on the Samsung HLS 1080p sets and BB wins the prize at the moment. Also free delivery!

santellavision

09-30-06, 12:58 AM

Just wanted to pass along another nice display option. I got my dad the new Sony SXRD 55A2000. I read the glowing reviews, so I went out and looked at them for him. Of course, in the stores they never look good. In fact, every set I saw at Ultimate looked bad. They were either way out of color balance (Way too blue and too bright), had SD material playing or worse, the HD programming that was playing was horriibly pixelated (Not sure why).

Anyway, we bought the 55A2000. Got it to his home, hooked it up right with HDMI, set it up with AVIA, and it looks awesome. Didn't do a ISF calibration yet, as it lookded very close, right-out-of-the-box. Highly recommended display.

With eveybody so hot on cool-looking flat screens, this set blows Plasma's & LCD's away in black-level depth detail, color resolution and overall PQ. DLP projections sets are looking great too with even better black levels. Check out the new thiner projection sets over the flat screens, you won't be dissapointed.

I bought a HP LCD 37 for my LR, and I hate to say it, but I hate the thing in the evening. It's bright and looks OK during the day upstairs though. But for serious viewing, its still my Marantz PJ in the HT room.

kucharsk

09-30-06, 06:07 AM

My dishes are held down with 6 cinder blocks. If the wind is ever strong enough to move that platform or the dishes I certainly hope I am not in Denver that day! ;)Those would never work in Boulder; the Chinooks die off quite a bit by the time they get to town…

Jetlag

09-30-06, 11:15 AM

Those would never work in Boulder; the Chinooks die off quite a bit by the time they get to town…
With the cinder blocks included that platform probably weighs in the neighborhood of at least 125 pounds, and the rubber mat underneath it seems to have a very high coefficient of friction with the roofing material. I tried moving the OTA platform a few feet after I had placed the much smaller blocks on it and it wouldn't budge. I pulled hard enough that I feared that I might scrape or otherwise damage the roofing material, so I first removed the blocks and then slid the platform.

I've always lag bolted them into either the roof frame, studs on the side of the house or lagged them into brick. I feel confident that this method is equally if not more solid than that! Trust me they are not going anywhere. If they do I'll buy everyone on this thread a beer! (DISCLAIMER: Human, Earthquake, Tornado, Meteor, Godzilla, Supernatural or other unforseen methods of intervention will void this offer) :cool:

TotallyPreWired

09-30-06, 12:14 PM

Those would never work in Boulder; the Chinooks die off quite a bit by the time they get to town…
Yes, Boulder county has an impressive combination of high wind pressure and snow loads. The highest design wind pressure is 130 mph.

It's no wonder these people are paranoid when it comes to tall structures!
....jc

kucharsk

10-01-06, 01:40 AM

Yes, Boulder county has an impressive combination of high wind pressure and snow loads. The highest design wind pressure is 130 mph.

It's no wonder these people are paranoid when it comes to tall structures!
....jcYou haven't been on edge until you've tried to sleep through a Chinook night when the winds are gusting and making the whole house sound as if it's going to blow away.

It's bad enough in my neighborhood, but there are some houses up the hill a bit that have full, unobstructed views of the Front Range, and I can only imagine how often they need to replace their west-facing windows.

It's not uncommon to drive around the morning after and see bus benches and newspaper boxes turned over, not to mention displaced shingles, large stretches of fence knocked over, and the aforementioned broken windows. Happens several times each winter.

That's also why cities along the Front Range require shingles to be "storm nailed" - wind gusts to 100-110 MPH are not uncommon. :eek:

RonAuger

10-01-06, 07:36 PM

You guys don't have any wind bragging rights until you come out on the plains! ;)

sunshinedawg

10-02-06, 08:40 PM

I just went down to watch the season premiere of Smallville in my theater and realized my pc had filled up and it didn't record. How depressing. :(

milehighmike

10-02-06, 08:49 PM

This afternoon, I was flipping thru channels on my little portable analog TV in the basement and happened to catch the station ID of channel 39. The station ID'd itself as KDEV 39 and KDEV-DT 11. I recollect seeing something, maybe a year ago, that this digital station (11) was on the air. The FCC database shows it with only 16 kW (but it probably doesn't need much power on hi VHF) and its transmitter is located in the Ft. Collins/Cheyenne area. I can't receive this channel but I was wondering if anyone else can, especially the folks up north of Denver.

sunshinedawg

10-02-06, 10:39 PM

I gave 11-1 a shot. I used to get it for a brief period when it was KKTU ABC. It was nice while I was boycotting KMGH. I seem to remember them at a much higher power. This station seems to change its call sign every time the wind blows. I remember it being at lest 3-4 diff stations. I didn't have any luck, although I didn't really try that hard. I can't remember where my antenna was when I used to pick them up. I've got every station dialed in now, so I don't press my luck and move my rig much. 5-1 and 22-1 were coming in great when I spun towrds the north though.

gakon

10-03-06, 10:45 PM

The season premier of Veronica Mars, and it's NOT IN HD :eek: ! What is up with these people?

markdl

10-03-06, 11:48 PM

Really, seriously annoyed about the lack of HD for Veronica Mars tonight, KWGN...

What the ****... You guys used to be better than this.

milehighmike

10-03-06, 11:54 PM

mknoebel

10-04-06, 12:28 AM

As of about the beginning of the 8th inning, KFCT switched to SD for the rest of the Yankees/Tigers game tonight. HD was back for the post game. So that makes two stations that dropped the ball tonight (no pun intended).

I also noticed that the 31-1 coverage of the baseball game went SD near the beginning of the game when they kept running the ticker at the bottom of the screen telling us about the small plane that crashed near Centennial.

Jetlag

10-04-06, 12:34 AM

Really, seriously annoyed about the lack of HD for Veronica Mars tonight, KWGN...

What the ****... You guys used to be better than this.

< inside joke mode :: ON >

You are beginning to sound like me Mark ;) :D

All I can say is that the "Winback Team" better be ready for me in the morning... :mad:

< inside joke mode :: OFF >

kucharsk

10-04-06, 02:18 AM

pkeegan

10-04-06, 08:14 AM

Just received this from message from Mr. Rooney @ KWGN

"Thanks for your note. Yes, we have been experiencing satellite interference
on the network feed.

Our test leading up to the CW premiere were fine, and so far have not been
able to isolate & eliminate the interference.

Please be patient - we hope to have this resolved soon.

Thanks for your interest in CW2."

Hopefully they will get it fixed.

jayn_j

10-04-06, 09:55 AM

Episode two of this season's Gilmore Girls was pretty bad, yet again. Lots of breakups, lots of digital audio dropouts, in general a mess, and a drop into SD 30 minutes in despite starting off in HD after a commercial break.

And not even the drop into SD stopped them from having pauses and stutters in the audio.

I may have to just start recording KWGN analog instead, as their digital setup is in no way ready for prime time. Really, I don't think they could be doing worse if they recorded and played back their feed from a DVHS deck. :mad:

Won't help. The breakups were still there on the analog feed as well, both from the DISH network feed and OTA.

kucharsk

10-04-06, 02:10 PM

Won't help. The breakups were still there on the analog feed as well, both from the DISH network feed and OTA.Yeah, I noticed that when I went back and watched 7th Heaven.

It's quite frustrating, and has to be causing Denver-area CW ratings to drop into the toilet. :eek:

UHForever

10-04-06, 02:13 PM

Episode two of this season's Gilmore Girls was pretty bad, yet again. Lots of breakups, lots of digital audio dropouts, in general a mess, and a drop into SD 30 minutes in despite starting off in HD after a commercial break.

And not even the drop into SD stopped them from having pauses and stutters in the audio.

Agreed. KWGN was awful last night. Veronica Mars was in SD the whole episode and having the numerous glitches that you described above. Borderline unwatchable.

As for blaming the CW feed...hasn't the CW been around for a couple of weeks now? I would think that would be enough time to isolate the problem. :rolleyes:

C'Mon KWGN, you guys seemed to really be on top of things...what happened? You guys are better than this. Hopefully they can figure it out before next Tuesday.

TheBert

10-04-06, 02:17 PM

Here is a bit of trivia for all of you:

The reason I ask is that if you ever find yourself working way up on a roof when that huge Venti Latte you had earlier urgently comes 'calling' and you either don't have time or are just to damn lazy to climb down the ladder, through the attic and then down 2 flights of stairs, which one of those vents could you hypothetically take a wizz down without doing any harm?

Hypothetical being the operative word here of course! ;)

I know Im a little late on this one. The drain/sewer vents smell like crap, You cant miss them. They usually don't have covers on them. The gass vents are usually warm. You DON'T want to wizz down these or it makes for a very unpleasant winter. :rolleyes:

Ok, Hypothetically, when you've had too much coffee, and leaving the cockpit is not possible, what are your options?

The traveling public might just want to know! :eek:
....jc

Gatorade bottles or BIG GULP cups. :cool:

santellavision

10-04-06, 02:56 PM

There's going to be a 2-part series in the Golden Transcript/Mile-Hi News starting tomorrow. They interviewed a bunch of us (including Jeffcomajority.org) for the article. Not sure what their spin/bias/agenda/etc is going to be yet, we'll just have to wait and see!

http://goldentranscript.com

Jetlag

10-04-06, 08:19 PM

santellavision

10-04-06, 08:51 PM

Tim,

Edit: Ooops, you said NON-D/E* tuner.

The Dish 622 is working good way up here in the foothills. It's quite a bit more sensitive than the old 921. I have another one coming Friday for the upstairs LCD set.

OT: My E* 508 PVR died the other day, so I called Dish. They offered me a brand-new 622 Dual Sat/OTA DVR for $199. Not a bad trade for a dead 508. So, guys, if you are wanting a new E* receiver, this is a good deal. (Note: 12 month contract required)

Smuuth

10-04-06, 09:08 PM

jayn_j

10-04-06, 09:17 PM

Tim,

Edit: Ooops, you said NON-D/E* tuner.

The Dish 622 is working good way up here in the foothills. It's quite a bit more sensitive the old 921. I have another one coming Friday for the upstairs LCD set.

OT: My E* 508 PVR died the other day, so I called Dish. They offered me a brand-new 622 Dual Sat/OTA DVR for $199. Not a bad trade for a dead 508. So, guys, if you are wanting a new E* receiver, this is a good deal. (Note: 12 month contract required)

Just be aware that this is a lease, not an owned receiver. Quite a nice deal and 2 year old Dish stuff is pretty worthless anyway, but you will eventually need to return the unit.

Nice receiver though. Got one myself (and a 508 as well)

The latest issue of Sound and Vision was discussing the fact that almost nobody is still marketing a standalone ATSC tuner. Look for used.

CEB II

10-05-06, 01:11 AM

The latest issue of Sound and Vision was discussing the fact that almost nobody is still marketing a standalone ATSC tuner. Look for used.

Right, and almost nobody is still marketing a standalone ATSC DVR. No new tuners I understand since most new DTVs have them built in. But, no OTA DTV DVRs is a big disappointment. Almost everything I record (DVD or VHS) is from an OTA source. It's like there is some kind of conspiracy to force the populace to pay TV (cable or satellite).

kucharsk

10-05-06, 02:09 AM

Right, and almost nobody is still marketing a standalone ATSC DVR. No new tuners I understand since most new DTVs have them built in. But, no OTA DTV DVRs is a big disappointment.The new HD TiVo Series 3 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR). It even has two built-in ATSC tuners.

It can tune digital cable using cable cards, but certainly is a great OTA HD DVR as well.

santellavision

10-05-06, 09:54 AM

Tower story in the RMN today. (Still no link to the Golden Transcript story yet)

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/editorials/article/0,2777,DRMN_23964_5042778,00.html

My favorite part is the fact that Wi-Fi had a significant impact on the amount of RF in homes tested. I wonder if they tested while they were making toast too?

kcosby

10-05-06, 10:29 AM

The new HD TiVo Series 3 (http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR). It even has two built-in ATSC tuners.

It can tune digital cable using cable cards, but certainly is a great OTA HD DVR as well.

Now if somebody could just make one that doesn't keep costing money after you buy it. I love TiVo, but hate the subscription. I read somewhere not too long ago that Moxi was going to go retail. (http://www.digeo.com/). Other than that, HTPCs are about the only option left.

ksellers

10-05-06, 10:53 AM

Jetlag

10-05-06, 11:23 AM

That is most likely where I am headed, just no free time in my schedule right now to put one together and most commercial HTPCs are a bit pricey.

santellavision

10-05-06, 04:03 PM

The Golden Transcript stories are up on their site. Nothing much new that we don't already know. Just a re-hash by both sides of the myths and truths.

Oh, sCARE's newest story is about a poor little dog that had to hide in the fireplace because that's the only place in it's house that it's invisible fence collar woudn't stop buzzing due to the towers.

http://goldentranscript.com/1sectionbody.lasso?-token.folder=2006-10-05&-token.section=10851.112112&-nothing

TotallyPreWired

10-05-06, 05:37 PM

They said the overall radiation from member stations would decrease after the digital broadcast deadline. The effective radiated power, or the actual tower output, of the four stations is currently 5,700 kilowatts. This would initially increase to 9,700 kW when the new consolidated tower is turned on, according to Lake Cedar figures.

However, after the 2009 digital deadline, analog signals would be switched off and the effective radiated power from the new tower would be reduced to 4,000 total kW, or 1,000 kW for each digital station.
At least they got this right. So, that puts a few holes in one sCARE argument.
....jc

TommyK

10-06-06, 12:36 AM

Quick question: Who here can recommend a non E* or D* ATSC STB that works really well in our low-power environment AND must display local programming info? I am quitting E* after more than 6 years but want to use my OTA antenna which gets all of the locals very nicely. Thanks for the help.
You might have heard about this already or found something else, but I thought I'd post it anyway.
By Robert Heron
Samsung's booth at CEDIA 2006 was a showcase of impressive video products, but two new yet rather unassuming items caught my attention. The DTB-H260F Digital HDTV Receiver ($179 MSRP) is a pint-sized set-top terrestrial digital tuner (ATSC) that also supports unencrypted QAM (digital cable) reception. The DTB-H260F includes a comfortable remote control and features HDMI, component, and composite video outputs as well as an optical digital audio output. If your current TV lacks a digital tuner for over-the-air reception, the DTB-H260F may be an upgrade worth considering. The DTB-H260F will be available late October.

ktmglen

10-06-06, 09:18 AM

Oh, sCARE's newest story is about a poor little dog that had to hide in the fireplace because that's the only place in it's house that it's invisible fence collar woudn't stop buzzing due to the towers.

The poor little pup's owners should be locked up for cruel and inhumane treatment of their pet in that case.

Dave6833

10-06-06, 10:01 AM

Also from "The Trouble With Towers" Part I:

Stony Shelton ... worries about the towers toppling onto his home or falling onto a power line and possibly starting a fire. ... "The potential to fall down the hill and hit my house is somewhat remote, but it's not a zero possibility."

If this guy wants to argue with statistics, there's also a "non-zero" probability that a plane will crash into his house. There's a significant probability that he will be hurt or killed in a traffic accident. There's a higher probability that a fire will be started by kids playing with fireworks than by a downed powerline. In fact, he's more likely to die from the flu than a falling tower.

santellavision

10-06-06, 10:19 AM

Just to show how ridiculous sCARE's dog story is, it makes no sense whatsoever.

They want us to believe that just out-of-the-blue, the dogs invisible collar started to go off and wouldn't stop. What? The collar didn't mis function when they installed it, or all the days before that morning when the owner left the house? Then, magically, the RF increased to ridiculous levels to do this?

ktmglen

10-06-06, 11:19 AM

You know, maybe that's sCARE's plan, keep acting stupid and then blame the outbursts on the towers because they caused brain damage!

Too funny....

TotallyPreWired

10-06-06, 11:49 AM

How stupid do they think people are to believe this BS?

Unfortunately, stupidity is one commodity in which we have an abundance. Politicians and groups like sCARE have been depending on it for centuries. It is a seasonal symptom, and seems to peak in early November.

We have yet to figure out a way to export it.

Can you imagine all of the people now planning to line their closets with lead so little fido has a sanctuary?
....jc

milehighmike

10-06-06, 05:20 PM

I'm not sure either side can get anything right lately.

From post 16610:
Quote: Originally Posted by The trouble with towers Part I
They said the overall radiation from member stations would decrease after the digital broadcast deadline. The effective radiated power, or the actual tower output, of the four stations is currently 5,700 kilowatts. This would initially increase to 9,700 kW when the new consolidated tower is turned on, according to Lake Cedar figures.

However, after the 2009 digital deadline, analog signals would be switched off and the effective radiated power from the new tower would be reduced to 4,000 total kW, or 1,000 kW for each digital station.

The fact of the matter is that when analog is shut down in 2009, KMGH and KUSA go back to channels 7 & 9 digital, with ERP that won't exceed 50 kW each. That makes the total ERP of the four stations after analog cutoff at about 2100 kW max.

The quote doesn't really say if LCG stated the ERP would be 4000 kW at analog shutoff. If they did, shame on them!

TotallyPreWired

10-06-06, 06:01 PM

I'm not sure either side can get anything right lately.
:rolleyes:
The fact of the matter is that when analog is shut down in 2009, KMGH and KUSA go back to channels 7 & 9 digital, with ERP that won't exceed 50 kW each. That makes the total ERP of the four stations after analog cutoff at about 2100 kW max.
I'm not sure that I buy that! :eek: The numbers that they are using are from the construction permits. 1,000kW for each station. And, I don't buy the 50kW either. KUSA is broadcasting with 316kW right now on analog. To think that if they do a swap-out, the power levels would be 1/6 of the current power level, doesn't sound right. And, KDVR is broadcasting with 223kW right now on their digital frequency.
....jc

milehighmike

10-06-06, 09:19 PM

TPW,

I really don't want to get argumentative on this issue. I thought I was just providing some facts. Hi-VHF digital has very low power requirements to replicate coverage areas of hi-VHF analog. For example, WCPO, analog on RF 9 in Cincinnati, has 316 kW analog, 16.3 kW digital on RF 10. WFAA, analog on RF 8 in Dallas, has 316 kW analog, 18.6 kW digital on RF 10. Both stations are at full power digital. And in our own backyard, KKTV in the Springs, which is not a full power analog hi-VHF, but has substantial power at 234 kW on RF 11, has 20.1 kW digital on RF 10. The power needed for hi-VHF is now where near that needed for UHF. That's why KBDI wanted to abandon RF 38 and go back to hi-VHF.

The FCC has limits on ERP for hi-VHF digital. I'm not sure what they are, but I recollect they are under 50 kW, as the above examples indicate. The limit for UHF is 1000 kW.

So, I stand by my opinion that if LCG doesn't know about the reduced power after analog shutoff of their own members, then they can't get it right either.

TotallyPreWired

10-06-06, 09:47 PM

I stand corrected. :o
....jc

santellavision

10-06-06, 11:21 PM

You gotta' see this...

Wow, they're runnin' scared now, they've gone and started a new website.

http://www.hdtvhonestly.com/

TotallyPreWired

10-06-06, 11:58 PM

You gotta' see this...

Wow, they're runnin' scared now, they've gone and started a new website.

http://www.hdtvhonestly.com/
I guess that I have to ask: Why do they have Lookout Mtn. as an 'Alternative Site'?

And, as for the FCC coverage maps, in many cases they are fiction, at best. :eek:
....jc

PAW

10-07-06, 12:06 AM

I'm a little slow in posting this but here goes

I attended the 9/27 Jeffco County Commissioner Town Hall meeting at Standley Lake Library

All three commissioners where there McCasky, Congrove (sp?) and Auburn (sp?).

I ask where they were with the vote. McCasky spoke. He was speaking on all topics. Don't know if that was pre-planned or what. He say the Judge Jackson had sent the case back to them to approve or disapprove. That they would make their decision within 60 - 90 days. (How convenint that that AFTER their upcoming election) That the judge had instructed them NOT to talk about. There an issue(s) they're looking at. He could not say what it was.

There were about 3 other supportors of the consolidated tower.

There was one woman, Carol, who mentioned a new website HDTVHonestly.com. It was supposed to be up soon. (I just checked. It is active. Can you guess WHO sponsors it?)

I spoke to Congrove after the meeting. He was not willing to talk and seemed less that forthcoming. He pointed me to Carol for more information.

I then spoke to Auburn. We had a lengthy conversation. I mention Carol to him and he said don't bother. She very opinionated. I ask if she was with Care and was told she is. Auburn couldn't give me any more info because of the gag order from Judge Jackson. He did tell me that he, at least, is studying the existing documentation page by page and wanted to make a fair judgement. He did mention that he voted do disapprove on the last vote, base on the towers falling. He also told me that he thought the LCG was a good idea. He's a former mechincal engineer and has worked in the tower industry. He has seen towers fall. I mentioned to him that I was disappointed that the vote would not occur until after the election. He said there's a lot to review and they've been quite busy. We also spoke about the Northeast Parkway and Golden's NIMBY attitude. He mentioned that they call it Golder. Golden - Boulder. I laughed because that's what I call it also. All in all, he seems to be fair and NOT in sCare's back pocket.

So if you ask me, my votes goes as

McCasky - NO!
Congrove - NO!
Auburn - Yes

I just got the blue election book in the mail. Guess which judge is up for a retain or dismiss vote?

Judge Jackson - Dismiss!

HDJello

10-07-06, 01:12 AM

There was one woman, Carol, who mentioned a new website HDTVHonestly.com. It was supposed to be up soon. (I just checked. It is active. Can you guess WHO sponsors it?)

I wonder if this is this the Carol of City and Mountain Views, who "interviewed" Ernie a couple years ago?

mrvideo

10-07-06, 02:44 AM

I don't think they could be doing worse if they recorded and played back their feed from a DVHS deck. :mad:

I realize that you are making a joke, but they couldn't record the network feed on a D-VHS deck in HD if they wanted to. The sat feed isn't ATSC, which is the only way a D-VHS deck will record inm HD. Thanks to Hollyweed, you can't feed a D-VHS deck HiDef video via baseband connections and record it.

It is interesting to note that our local CW affiliate hasn't been able to get their HD working correctly for well over a year.

mrvideo

10-07-06, 03:20 AM

As for blaming the CW feed...hasn't the CW been around for a couple of weeks now? I would think that would be enough time to isolate the problem. :rolleyes:

Actually, the CW feed has been around a lot longer. The same satellite transmission paths used for CW SD/HD are the same paths that were used for UPN. The feeds are on the same bird, IA6, as CBS. That is because they are both fed from the same place.

In any event, when I was in Denver about 11 months ago, if you remember, I was given a tour of the local CBS affiliate. It was pointed out that there is plenty of interference downtown and because of that, their main sat dishes are out at the tower. There are backup dishes in the parking lot, which has some protection.

The old WB programming was on G4R (now G16), three satellites to the west, or 6 degrees west of IA6. It is possible that the six degrees difference in the look angle kept the interference at bay.

I'm guessing that the station is using dishes at the studio and might need to move primary reception elsewhere.

C'Mon KWGN, you guys seemed to really be on top of things...what happened? You guys are better than this. Hopefully they can figure it out before next Tuesday.

See above. As to why the interference is just now causing a problem is unknown. Probably has them baffled as well. Monitoring of the UPN HD feed could have started as soon as they knew they were going to be the CW affiliate and it was determined that CBS/Viacom was going to do the feeds and not Warner Bros. They couldn't monitor the UPN SD feed until they got the DSR-4800/4810 receivers in. From what I read, the new CW affiliate was supposed to get the receivers from the current UPN affiliate. Makes it a little tough to test the feed when UPN was done on a Friday and The CW started up on the following Monday. Can't look at the feed with any other satellite receiver. The HD receiver was/is the responsibility of the station.

BTW, if anyone has a good contact with their engineering, you might want to let them know that the audio feed information listed for the HD feed in the satellite feed info document is in error. Four audio streams are being sent to each affiliate. In order they are: 1) Dolby-E 2) AC3 DD2.0 3) AC3 DD5.1 and 4) MPEG-2. On each of the pages that references the HD audio, streams 3 and 4 are reversed. Hopefully they've already noticed that, a few weeks ago. I just noticed that the sat info for the west coast Sunday feed has the wrong transponder parameters. Won't affect you guys, since the station takes the east coast feed.

Don't know if your station does DD5.1. BTW, Smallville, Gilmore Girls and one of the comedies is only DD2.0.

kenglish

10-07-06, 09:51 AM

So, HDTV"Honesty" says there are so many alternative sites....
Then, everyone in the Denver DMA just needs to buy and install new antennas and rotors, so they can get all of them. Sounds simple to me......several hundred thousand homes just buy new antennas (and install then in the snowy weather), and a few dozen homeowners get to keep their "view".

If a homeowner falls off his roof and hits another homeowner, will all the homeowners fall as well ("Catastropic failure")?

santellavision

10-07-06, 10:20 AM

I wonder if this is this the Carol of City and Mountain Views, who "interviewed" Ernie a couple years ago?No, per WHOIS.net, the HDTVHonestly.com is registered to Julie Courim of Golden and the CMW's is registered to Carole Lomond of Golden, both of which are with sCARE.

----------------

After reading through the hdtvhonestly.com site some more, it's pretty stupid sCARE wasted all this time putting together a ridiculous website like this. It's so hyper-technical, who do they think they're going to convince? The Commissioners and/or Judge Jackson? I'm sure they're studying the website right now and going to make a decision based it's 'facts'? Uh... Not!

So, then maybe soccer-mom's are going to chat with their friends at Daycare about the 'Booster Site Summary Chart' with the calculated dBu at 15' height with 1 Megawatt statistics... Oh... Please.

What a waste of time. They should have just made a one page website that says... If we let them build the tower, everybody's going to DIE!!!!!

---------------

FYI: Did some hunting around and found that the sCARE website lists Julie Courim as their Webmaster. They try to be sneaky by making it sound like it's another, private anti-tower group. Did they really think someone wouldn't have found this out.

TotallyPreWired

10-07-06, 08:09 PM

Is anyone receiving KMGH? I had it earlier, but it's gone now.
....jc

mknoebel

10-07-06, 08:34 PM

I see football on KMGH. Not football I want to watch ;) , but it is on air.

TotallyPreWired

10-07-06, 08:54 PM

Thanks! :confused:

What's weird is that I am getting a signal strength of zero. Even KCNC, which I don't normally get a lock on, is reading something!
....jc

sfeitler

10-07-06, 10:32 PM

Hi Sarah, I am located just south west of 17th and Alpine I am able to pull in all the RP stations and 2-1 and 31-1. I am using the Radio Shack VU-190 XR antenna with no amp. I have tried an amp in the past and lost everything. I have helped several neighbors and friends using the same antenna and have had good luck with it. Even in an attic at 66th and airport road.

Good Luck.

Well, we went to Radio Shack twice today. First time, we came home with the VU-90XR, second time with the VU-190XR. No dice. First of all, the VU-90XR is nearly identical to the YAGI we already had... so not too surprising it did no better. The VU-190XR of course is much larger :) but after putting it up, the only improvement is in the strength of 31-1's signal. Nothing on 4, 7, 9--all are at "49" signal strength (out of 100), but apparently that's not enough to provide a picture. We tried pointing everywhere from 30 degrees east of south, to due west, with no success. This is such a frustrating process! Not enough chocolate...

So I'm thinking of getting the Winegard 8800. I have a friend in Longmont who has had success with that antenna in his attic. We'll mast-mount it.

Will it be possible to mount both the Winegard and our original YAGI on the same mount? If not, maybe that's fine--if I can pull one of the PBS stations in on UHF.

-Sarah

Edited to say: My husband says I'm mis-using the term YAGI. So, whatever--the antenna we had already is just like the Radio Shack VU-90XR, whatever style that is.

TotallyPreWired

10-07-06, 11:50 PM

Sarah a couple of things:

What type of cable are you using? RG-6, I hope?
How long in the cable? Every 25' may loose 1 dB(3 db is 1/2 or twice) the amount of signal.
Check out Antennaweb.org for directions and distances to the transmitters

Good Luck!
....jc

sfeitler

10-08-06, 12:18 AM

Sarah a couple of things:

What type of cable are you using? RG-6, I hope?
How long in the cable? Every 25' may loose 1 dB(3 db is 1/2 or twice) the amount of signal.
Check out Antennaweb for directions and distances to the transmitters

Good Luck!
....jc

RG-6 AFAIK. Standard 75-Ohm coax, not 300-Ohm flat wire.

The run length is probably 50-60 feet or so. Down from the roof through a 1-story house into a crawl space, then across and back up to the main (only) floor. 20' down, 20' across, 10-15' in the house proper. We've tried a teeny amplifier, with no real improvement. We even tried taking a small tv and the tuner up to the roof--so, 10' cable--and didn't do any better.

We looked at Antennaweb. According to them, we're doing as well as we can hope. But since I see so many other folks both here and in "real life" doing better in Longmont, I'm hopeful.

We do live in an older neighborhood, so trees might be a factor. Not much we can do there, except wait until December to experiment with antennas. ;)

-Sarah

ppasteur

10-08-06, 12:18 PM

Sorry if I missed this, but.. There was some discussion of KUSA sending out only front right/left and center sound on Sunday night football. Last week this was all I got again. A few folks said they were going to write and ask about this. Did anyone get a reply that provided any information, like when they thought they might fix it, and why it is not working correctly??

If no one has heard anything then maybe someone can post that email address for KUSAs head of engineering again. I seem to have lost it. I would like to send him a note about this.

Phil P.

santellavision

10-08-06, 01:03 PM

milehighmike

10-08-06, 01:03 PM

don.perez@9news.com

sfeitler

10-08-06, 01:48 PM

Sarah,

You posted that you've tried rotating the antenna around. But, it may take physically moving it to another location on the roof. I know that might be difficult, but with low-power, a few feet in any direction might make all the difference. Try hand-holding it in a different location to test.

Ok, we can try that. The nearest Winegard dealer is in Fort Collins and not open until tomorrow, anyway.

Are you suggesting holding the antenna directly, or holding the mast+antenna and moving that around? I recall in my bunny-ears days, a person in contact with the antenna would make quite a bit of difference--that's why I'm asking for the clarification.

-Sarah

JMartinko

10-08-06, 02:02 PM

TotallyPreWired

10-08-06, 02:06 PM

Are you suggesting holding the antenna directly, or holding the mast+antenna and moving that around? I recall in my bunny-ears days, a person in contact with the antenna would make quite a bit of difference--that's why I'm asking for the clarification.
I would isolate myself from the antenna. Hold the mast. Better yet use gloves. For the best test, the mast s/b grounded.
....jc

mknoebel

10-08-06, 02:10 PM

FWIW, the Avalanche game against the Canucks tonight is listed in HD on channel 96 on the D* channel guide. 96 is used to broadcast local HD sports using the MPEG4 scheme. It looks like D* has made an agreement with Altitude to do the HD sports locally.
:D

Great news! I've been hoping we get some Avs in HD this year! Thanks.

As long as we are OT...
I have a Denon receiver that I bought at SoundTrak many years ago. It stopped working so I need some recommendations on where to take it to get it fixed. Is taking it back to Ultimate Electronics my best bet, or is there a better alternative for me??

santellavision

10-08-06, 02:54 PM

I hate to say it, but I stopped buying Denon products (I had two crap-out on me in 2 years) Listen-up on Pearl St/Denver is a Denon service center. If it's out of warranty, you might want to consider a new receiver, as they wanted a ton of money to repair mine. I ended up trashing it. (It wasn't a cheap receiver either!)

mknoebel

10-08-06, 02:58 PM

ByH2O

10-08-06, 03:21 PM

FWIW, I had a cold solder on a power relay on one a few years back. Certainly worth looking at.

<Obligatory OT>

I have not been able to lock KTVD since they went live with their digital signal. Wierd, as I get the other RP stations fine (using an HR10-250 and a CM4228 on a rotor with a 15' mast). I don't get it, since their freq is so close to the others. Soon, the leaves will be gone and I'll see if that makes any difference.

Oh well...

Resume party.

sfeitler

10-08-06, 03:50 PM

I would isolate myself from the antenna. Hold the mast. Better yet use gloves. For the best test, the mast s/b grounded.
....jc

There has to be something wrong with how I'm doing this. I moved the bleedin' antenna all over the roof, while my husband watched the "meter" on the TV. No change. Not even when I pointed the stupid thing due west, or due north. No change.

So... ugh. What am I doing wrong?

I tuned the receiver to "4", which shows 4-1. Is there any chance it's on the correct frequency? Wouldn't I get 0 if it was tuned to something that isn't broadcasting? I mean, I know I get 0 if the cable is disconnected. I know I get various numbers higher than 49 for stations that we can see. I just don't know if I'm tuning it correctly for the stations we don't yet see, but want to.

-Sarah

squidboy

10-08-06, 04:50 PM

I did buy a new receiver, but when I was cleaning up around the house yesterday I noticed a very expensive paper weight just sitting there and thought maybe I should do something about it. I was afraid that it might be too expensive to fix it...

My Denon "died" a couple of years ago, but ListenUp was able to revive it for ~$60. Just a couple of bad ICs that they had to order. It may be worth getting an estimate (don't remember the cost of the estimate, which is waived if you get the service done.)

HDJello

10-08-06, 05:23 PM

There has to be something wrong with how I'm doing this. I moved the bleedin' antenna all over the roof, while my husband watched the "meter" on the TV. No change. Not even when I pointed the stupid thing due west, or due north. No change.

So... ugh. What am I doing wrong?

I tuned the receiver to "4", which shows 4-1. Is there any chance it's on the correct frequency? Wouldn't I get 0 if it was tuned to something that isn't broadcasting? I mean, I know I get 0 if the cable is disconnected. I know I get various numbers higher than 49 for stations that we can see. I just don't know if I'm tuning it correctly for the stations we don't yet see, but want to.

-Sarah
You might have to put the receiver on the real frequency for the stations you cannot get:

KUSA-DT => 16
KTVD-DT => 19
KMGH-DT => 17
KRMA-DT => 18
KCNC-DT => 35

The receiver does not get the PSIP mapping information until it has tuned in the signal. Normally when you have adequate signal you can do a scan and it finds them. But in our (what Symbios calls) "low-power hell" you cannot do a scan until you have your antenna aligned. Give it a shot...

You might also get 5 from Cheyenne...

sfeitler

10-08-06, 06:10 PM

You might have to put the receiver on the real frequency for the stations you cannot get:

KUSA-DT => 16
KTVD-DT => 19
KMGH-DT => 17
KRMA-DT => 18
KCNC-DT => 35

The receiver does not get the PSIP mapping information until it has tuned in the signal. Normally when you have adequate signal you can do a scan and it finds them. But in our (what Symbios calls) "low-power hell" you cannot do a scan until you have your antenna aligned. Give it a shot...

You might also get 5 from Cheyenne...

We're trying that now. I don't know--have (gulp) lost the manual for this receiver, and can't find it online; and I don't know what it "really" does when I tell it to go to channel 16, for example.

We've just put a Radio Shack amp on the mast, which seemed to do nothing at all for us. Sigh.

-Sarah

oxothuk

10-08-06, 07:04 PM

We're trying that now. I don't know--have (gulp) lost the manual for this receiver, and can't find it online; and I don't know what it "really" does when I tell it to go to channel 16, for example.
Just guessing, but you probably want to enter the channel as 16-1, so the receiver knows you are trying to tune a digital channel rather than an analog channel (i.e., 16-0).

ppasteur

10-08-06, 08:20 PM

don.perez@9news.com

Thanks for that milehighmike. Interestingly the Sunday Night football show on KUSA is now showing DD 5.1 on all of my recievers...
This is good!

Phi P.

sunshinedawg

10-08-06, 09:37 PM

You might have to put the receiver on the real frequency for the stations you cannot get:

KUSA-DT => 16
KTVD-DT => 19
KMGH-DT => 17
KRMA-DT => 18
KCNC-DT => 35

The receiver does not get the PSIP mapping information until it has tuned in the signal. Normally when you have adequate signal you can do a scan and it finds them. But in our (what Symbios calls) "low-power hell" you cannot do a scan until you have your antenna aligned. Give it a shot...

You might also get 5 from Cheyenne...

I agree. Try pointing to the north to get 5-1 out of Cheyenne. It is very strong for me. If that works then maybe you can apply that technique to RP. Also try aiming slighly up or down. Longmont is slightly down angle from RP.

I know this has been talked about b4, but KUSA's Sun night footaball pq is just awful. Any shot with motion is just horribly pixelated. I guess the problem starts with NBC, but 9-2 can't be helping either. I guess this is what we come to expect from our HD Leader :rolleyes:

kucharsk

10-09-06, 02:37 AM

I realize that you are making a joke, but they couldn't record the network feed on a D-VHS deck in HD if they wanted to. The sat feed isn't ATSC, which is the only way a D-VHS deck will record inm HD. Thanks to Hollyweed, you can't feed a D-VHS deck HiDef video via baseband connections and record it.I was largekly kidding, just trying to make a point that not even DVHS has as many issues with playback as KWGN seems to.

That having been said, I think you can record from DVB to DVHS via FireWire if you have a modified receiver…

mrvideo

10-09-06, 03:28 AM

That having been said, I think you can record from DVB to DVHS via FireWire if you have a modified receiver…

Ya, as long as the info on the firewire is ATSC compliant, the D-VHS deck will record it. I have my two D-VHS decks connected to my two OTA DTV STBs. Don't use them as much now that I have my OTA DTV/DVB-S computer operational.

Instead of trying to do a modified DVB receiver to D-VHS, it is a lot easier using a DVB-S card and capturing directly onto your computer.

Iwanthd

10-09-06, 08:13 AM

Thanks for that milehighmike. Interestingly the Sunday Night football show on KUSA is now showing DD 5.1 on all of my recievers...
This is good!

Phi P.

I noticed the attempt at 5.1 as well. Football Night In America came through fine as 5.1 and the early part of the game did too. It appeared they had some problems switching back and forth between 2.0 and 5.1 during the commercials and had some sound drop-outs. During the first quarter they went back to 2.0 after the drop-outs. Good to know they're trying.

pkeegan

10-09-06, 09:26 AM

KWGN is having fewer issues.

I was able to watch Everybody Hates Chris in HD and I didn't notice a single audio or video dropout.

ppasteur

10-09-06, 09:38 AM

I noticed the attempt at 5.1 as well. Football Night In America came through fine as 5.1 and the early part of the game did too. It appeared they had some problems switching back and forth between 2.0 and 5.1 during the commercials and had some sound drop-outs. During the first quarter they went back to 2.0 after the drop-outs. Good to know they're trying.

Right after I wrote that everything was good, it went to hell. They were going back and forth from 2.0 to 5.1 and the picture was freezing and or breaking up for about ten minutes or so. Later in the second quarter it finally straightened up and was pretty solid for the rest of the game...decent PQ and 5.1. When it was working correctly I did not notice any pixelization or other problems.

Now, trying to watch the last quarter of the Cowboys and Eagles game on Fox was a real excercize in frustration. It was hanging up, freezing for 30 seconds or more at a time, showing massive pixelization and sound drop outs. It was horrible. I get an 85% signal level from 31-1, so that is not the problem. So I don't know if it was KDVR having problems or Fox, but Denver's HD follower was having it's issues as well yesterday.

Phil P.

TotallyPreWired

10-09-06, 10:06 AM

Now, trying to watch the last quarter of the Cowboys and Eagles game on Fox was a real excercize in frustration. It was hanging up, freezing for 30 seconds or more at a time, showing massive pixelization and sound drop outs. It was horrible. I get an 85% signal level from 31-1, so that is not the problem. So I don't know if it was KDVR having problems or Fox, but Denver's HD follower was having it's issues as well yesterday.
That is interesting. Usually I just watch Fox via D*'s West coast feed. Yesterday, I fired up my 'ol 4228 and watched KDVR. The picture and sound were both good quality. No problems.

Phil, it sounds to me, like you have reception, and/or hardware problems, because I have no complaints with KDVR's broadcast.
....jc

mknoebel

10-09-06, 10:14 AM

RonAuger

10-09-06, 11:15 AM

FWIW, the Avalanche game against the Canucks tonight is listed in HD on channel 96 on the D* channel guide. 96 is used to broadcast local HD sports using the MPEG4 scheme. It looks like D* has made an agreement with Altitude to do the HD sports locally.
:D
Too bad I'm not MPEG4-capable yet. No Alt-HD on any of my receivers last night.

BobLikesHDTV

10-09-06, 12:21 PM

Great news! I've been hoping we get some Avs in HD this year! Thanks.

As long as we are OT...
I have a Denon receiver that I bought at SoundTrak many years ago. It stopped working so I need some recommendations on where to take it to get it fixed. Is taking it back to Ultimate Electronics my best bet, or is there a better alternative for me??

Ultimate got out of the service business. They farm it out to only a few repair shops in the area, most having gone out of business in the last few years.

Repairs shops are harder to find, jobs take forever to complete, and are much more expensive, thank you very much.

BobLikesHDTV

10-09-06, 12:25 PM

I don't know what is going for the last several weeks throughout Denver digital TV-dom, but I haven't seen so many programs have trouble with HD since 2003.

Football on Fox in SD? Same with CBS, with it coming in and out. Same on CBS last night with Cold Case. CW-2 had nothing but trouble based on what others wrote here. Even problems with stalwart KUSA.

What gives?

I can't wait to see what a mess it all becomes with the snow this winter.

gakon

10-09-06, 01:21 PM

KWGN is having fewer issues.
I was able to watch Everybody Hates Chris in HD and I didn't notice a single audio or video dropout.Even Supernatural, which is broadcast on Thursday, had no problems. Hopefully things will be better for this week's VM.

markdl

10-09-06, 01:59 PM

I did buy a new receiver, but when I was cleaning up around the house yesterday I noticed a very expensive paper weight just sitting there and thought maybe I should do something about it. I was afraid that it might be too expensive to fix it...

Mike, I know it's a ways down here from where you are, but I had a H/K receiver die on me a few years ago that was well out of warranty, and the guys at The Gramophone Shop got H/K to pay for the repair and eventual replacement.

Gramophone Shop Incorporated
2707 E Louisiana Ave
Denver, CO 80210
3037441284

JMartinko

10-09-06, 02:37 PM

Too bad I'm not MPEG4-capable yet. No Alt-HD on any of my receivers last night.
The game was indeed the Altitude broadcast. In general the picture was pretty good, but there was some macroblocking during some of the 'high speed' movements in a couple of cameras. Overall it was certainly worth having. Sounds like it's time for you to get that upgrade.

As for the Fox problems during football, I did not notice any problems on the D* ST channel for the Eagles game. Didn't watch the local feed as I switch during commercials to the other games.

I also noticed the audio problems and picture freezing a couple of times during the Steelers game on KUSA. At least they are trying (boy, now that I mention it, the whole da*n bunch of stations are trying.....very trying......!)

Iwanthd

10-09-06, 02:54 PM

I noticed that KCNC is broadcasting the Broncos game tonight on MNF. Is there any precedent for ESPN/ABC passing the HD feed through to the local provider?

oxothuk

10-09-06, 03:51 PM

I noticed that KCNC is broadcasting the Broncos game tonight on MNF. Is there any precedent for ESPN/ABC passing the HD feed through to the local provider?Last year ESPN had the Sunday night games, and our local OTA broadcasts for the Denver games were SD only. Doesn't give me much reason to hope for better with tonight's game.

OTOH, TitanTV has it listed as HD. I guess we'll see in about 5 hours.

KCNC's web site also shows it in HD.

mknoebel

10-09-06, 04:09 PM

Thanks to all who offered thoughts on my receiver fix situation. It is appreciated!

coebranch

10-09-06, 04:52 PM

I have been using local cable directily into my tv to pick up local HD channels with-in the last few weeks have no longer been able to pick up Fox 31 in HD (using channel 90-1) does anyone know what happend to that signal?

wabisabi

10-09-06, 06:32 PM

I haven't read it yet, but here is a link to part one of the two part "The Trouble with Towers" editorial in the Transcript newspaper.

Link (http://www.jeffconews.com/1editorialbody.lasso?-token.folder=2006-10-05&-token.story=175851.112112&-token.subpub=)

-Wabisabi

Lee Smith

10-09-06, 07:36 PM

Fox 31 HD is now on 16-1.

coebranch

10-09-06, 08:22 PM

I tried 16-1 and didn't get a signal. I'm in Littleton, I don't know if that would make a difference.

oxothuk

10-10-06, 09:25 AM

Great game, huh? First time ever seeing MNF in high-def for me, inasmuch as KMGH-DT didn't reach me until after the end of last season.

santellavision

10-10-06, 09:59 AM

Is it just me or was it annoying when they added special effects to the half-time NFL highlight clips? Did they really need to do this? We now have HD to increase resolution and they go and 'jack-it-up'.

Scott Pro

10-10-06, 10:25 AM

I watched the Donkeys game on ESPN HD on D*. It was defect free, until the end of the game. When they came back from commercial after the 2 minute warning, the pic was breaking up almost non-stop, like somebody flipped a switch. Then, after :00, it was fine again. Anybody else saw this?

ppasteur

10-10-06, 10:38 AM

That is interesting. Usually I just watch Fox via D*'s West coast feed. Yesterday, I fired up my 'ol 4228 and watched KDVR. The picture and sound were both good quality. No problems.

Phil, it sounds to me, like you have reception, and/or hardware problems, because I have no complaints with KDVR's broadcast.
....jc

I guess it was something local, but I usually get 31-1 with a good solid signal, even off the side of my antenna (it was showing 83 on my H20, I then pointed the antenna at Lookout, and it went to 87-88). I also tried it with my HDTV Wonder card which is on a separate antenna, again getting a sold 80+ signal. Same issues. When I switched over to KUSA for Sunday night football, except for the problems everyone saw, things were fine. I typically only get about a 65 signal from them. I have not gone back and tried 31-1 since. I will have to do that.

It may be one of those Mother Murphy things...I really was into what was a very interesting game.

Phil P.

mknoebel

10-10-06, 11:25 AM

DennisMileHi

10-10-06, 11:44 AM

I watched ESPN last night as well and didn't notice any breakups. Maybe the rain was stronger in areas and blanked the satellite.

I did a comparison on PQ with KCNC which was rebroadcasting the ESPN showing. I was interested to see if the OTA without any compression from D* would look better. Well to my eyes on my 110" screeen, the KCNC OTA picture was actually worse. And to top that off, they were only broadcasting DD 2.0 while ESPN was in full 5.1.

So much for OTA being better. In this case it definitely was not.

santellavision

10-10-06, 12:44 PM

longrider

10-10-06, 01:15 PM

I also had no problems with ESPNHD via D* It has to be just a coincidence that it started when coming back from commercial and I would probably check your dish aim, that rain really wasn't enough to cause sat reception problems.

Audiguy3

10-10-06, 01:18 PM

Scott,

I watched the same channel you did (ESPN-HD through *D) and didn't noticed any picture problems.

ditto

markdl

10-10-06, 02:01 PM

No picture problems on ESPNHD for me here as well. And I think what caused the picture to be significantly worse OTA on KCNC was the fact that KCNC was converting the 720p ESPNHD signal to 1080i to broadcast.

LXIX

10-10-06, 02:34 PM

Would you guys be interested in chattting on a Live, On-line Q&A session with the Jeffco Commissioners?

We would invite them to discuss various topics related to technology and the county like Wi-Fi, Cell, Cable etc. (They cannot answer direct questions regarding the LCG application though)

Is there any interest?

Count me in!!!

My house just got an offer and I will be moving back to Jeffco in the next few months (Arvada area) so I would love to get to know my new commissioners.

-Matt

kucharsk

10-11-06, 04:19 AM

OK, that's it, KWGN has finally made me remove Gilmore Girls from my list to watch.

It's in HD, it's in SD. Whether on KWGN-DT or KWGN analog, the show stutters, stops, repeats itself then skips forward four seconds. It's completely, 100% unwatchable.

When the next ratings book comes out and they have a zero share in Denver, we'll all know why.

I used to look forward to watching Gilmore Girls each week, and now it's just painful to get through because we can't get more than two minutes of program content without a glitch (meaning one where we lose a few seconds of dialogue), a skip or the picture breaking up into pixels - and that's on the analog broadcast.

Meanwhile the HD feed started in HD but with a strange artifact that looked like two to three frames were being skipped every few seconds. KWGN must have noticed it too, as after the first break they switched to the SD feed, which had more horrible artifacts than the stuttery motion on the SD feed, as mentioned above. Entire lines of dialog were repeated, with the screen then breaking up into pixels and "catching up" jumping over seconds of program content. Completely useless.

gakon

10-11-06, 08:23 AM

Partially explains why Veronica Mars was in SD again. At least it didn't suffer from the stuttering, which is often a problem.

Jeremy Tebo

10-11-06, 01:29 PM

Anyone else notice the spaz-out during 'Friday Night Lights' last night on KUSA-DT? During one scene it froze and stuttered for quite a while, not sure how long since I just flipped to D* for a while and it was fine when I switched back a few minutes later. Very odd though, I've never seen that happen.

Sounds similar to what happend with Gilmore Girls, though I don't watch that show.

RonAuger

10-11-06, 01:46 PM

Partially explains why Veronica Mars was in SD again. At least it didn't suffer from the stuttering, which is often a problem.I watched VM for about 5 mins (which was all I could take) and it was perfect HD on 2.1, although I don't remember which 5 minutes I watched.

Ernie,
Count me out -- I can't say I see the point, for me anyway, if they can't talk about LCG.

(Woo Hoo - TOTP!)

mknoebel

10-11-06, 02:04 PM

pkeegan

10-12-06, 02:04 PM

gakon

10-12-06, 02:26 PM

I also watched Veronica Mars and didn't noticed that it switched to SD. Looked good to me.I should have been clear that I was watching VM on Comcast. It's interesting that some nights CW is in HD via Comcast and others it's not. Maybe KWGN switched the signal they were providing to Comcast. Maybe I'll take this to the Comcast thread.

santellavision

10-12-06, 05:31 PM

The 2nd part of the Mile Hi News/Golden Transcript tower feature is now posted.

http://goldentranscript.com

The stories in this part really do support LCG's struggle. It makes Golden sound like spoiled children who if they can't get their way, they threaten to take away their toys. Waaaaaaa!!!

And, it has about 10 great quotes from LCG and only about one or two from sCARE. The only item of question brought up is Commissioner McCasky quote that...Lake Cedar Group officials said the telecommunications land-use plan allows them to change the signal without undergoing rezoning hearings, as long as they don't change the physical appearance of the towers. However, Jefferson County Board of Commissioners Chairman Kevin McCasky said zoning rules say otherwise.

"In the past, the Planning and Zoning Department has taken the position that analog broadcast antennas on legal non-conforming towers may not be replaced with digital antennas," he said. "This is because the replacement of antennas on towers that are grandfathered in would extend and expand the use of the tower."

However, any proposal to switch the towers to digital would have to be considered on its own merits and acknowledged that any decision could also appeal the decision, McCasky said.Hmmmm? He says "in the past"? This has never happened in the past. And he is correct that the stations cannot change or modify existing antennas on the towers. (the stations will not touch the towers and existing antennas and only do a minor swap-out of electronics inside in their buildings)

And currently, Cell phone companies have changed their towers from analog to digital without rezoning. And even more relevant, there is two radio stations on Lookout broadcasting digital radio. They didn't have to rezone to do that either.

Sorry Commish, precedent has been set that changing from analog to digital is acceptable as same-service and does not require rezoning. The longer sCARE, the Commissioners and the city of Golden allow cell and radio stations to continue without protest, precedent becomes acceptable and the harder their case for its not same-service becomes impossible.

ktmglen

10-12-06, 05:59 PM

"This is because the replacement of antennas on towers that are grandfathered in would extend and expand the use of the tower."

The commish fails to grasp that there is no difference between an analog and digital antenna. An antenna is an antenna is an antenna. As long as the new digital frequency is the same as the old analog frequency, there is no need to replace any of the antennas on any of the towers in Feb 2009.

Antenna stays the same. Power amplifier stays the same. Building stays the same. Landscaping stays the same. Only the exciter (a 1.75" high x 19" wide x 24" deep box buried in a rack somewhere) changes. It's like changing the paint color inside of the building--not a whole lot to argue in front of a court about changes in the impact of the facility on the neighborhood.

And since the cell phone providers and FM broadcasters have already successfully swapped out their exciters with NO zoning challenges from the county, I fail to see how the county could possibly argue the TV broadcasters' swap out is any different.

-Glen

donyoop

10-12-06, 11:09 PM

The commish fails to grasp that there is no difference between an analog and digital antenna.

I didn't know that a digital antenna existed. Come to think of it, that would be a great invention; receive a signal with no analog carrier. Sounds like ESP or something; a vulcan mind meld, who knows.

Don

kucharsk

10-13-06, 01:46 AM

BTW, I emailed KWGN with my disappointment with their signal quality.

I've received no reply. (Not surprising, but still…)

jayn_j

10-13-06, 09:33 AM

I didn't know that a digital antenna existed. Come to think of it, that would be a great invention; receive a signal with no analog carrier. Sounds like ESP or something; a vulcan mind meld, who knows.

Don

It doesn't, but I can certainly understand how the commissioners might think so. Look at all the ads from BB and others touting the "new" "digital antennas". A lot like when DVD-Rs came out "tuned" for music, Video and data. All marketing hype, but seemingly effective.

santellavision

10-13-06, 12:42 PM

ktmglen

10-13-06, 02:02 PM

oxothuk

10-13-06, 02:43 PM

santellavision

10-13-06, 03:42 PM

But I wonder if they will go to all that effort to push KCNC off the mountain when KMGH and KUSA get to stay.Of course they will fight it. It started out being a fight about safety, then became a money issue when they figured out how much their property values could increase with less towers. Now, if either the LCGII app. passes or the stations decide to stay, they'll become rabid dogs, all they have left is blood!

wabisabi

10-13-06, 03:56 PM

Jeffco 'screwed-the-pooch' big time by not requiring mandatory re-zoning of cell and radio stations from broadcasting in digital. It's now impossible for the county to say different rules apply to TV than Radio and Cell companies. Wham, Bam, Thank you Mame, Game over.

I think this is an interesting point. However, the telecom act of 1996 mandated that local jurisdictions could not discriminate between different cell/PCS providers. That means that even if the county felt that a cell tower should not be able to switch from analog to digital, the FCC said that it must be allowed to do so. The telecom act of 1996 does not provide that same protection to broadcasters.

However, (double however?) the radio broadcasters that are now broadcasting in digital are something else. It will be interesting to see how the county chooses to explain that (or more likely chooses not to explain that).

-Wabisabi

kucharsk

10-14-06, 02:02 AM

I did experience two or three audio breakups but they were pretty minor. I didn't have any video issues. I use an HD OTA tuner and am currently receiving a fairly strong signal. Overall this broadcast was a huge improvement over the week before. I also watched Veronica Mars and didn't noticed that it switched to SD. Looked good to me. Again this was a huge improvement over the week before. That's strange, as it was completely unwatchable here, and the glitches were not of the type due to low signal strength; instead they were clearly problems on KWGN's server…

farjo08

10-15-06, 02:33 AM

I just got my HR20-700 so I have some equiptment for sale:

Channel Master 4228 UHF Antenna
Channel Master 7775 Pre-Amp
DirectTV Dual LNB Dish
DirectTV Triple LNF Dish (HD)

If anyone is interest send me a PM with an offer.

I also have 2 5 foot posts plus 2 sets of antenna mounts. The dishes I would be willing to give away for free - so if you need / want them let me know.

I am located in Westminster if you want to pick up and/or I can drop off anything if need be.

santellavision

10-15-06, 10:14 AM

farjo08,

Why are you selling your OTA antenna? OTA HD has better PQ than Sat or Cable. Plus, it gives you a backup for sat rain-fade/weather.

farjo08

10-15-06, 04:14 PM

farjo08,

Why are you selling your OTA antenna? OTA HD has better PQ than Sat or Cable. Plus, it gives you a backup for sat rain-fade/weather.

I have another (Indoor) antenna for CW (which DTV doesn't provide) and gets me Fox as well. I lost CBS during the summer and could never get it back, don't watch anything on NBC so don't need that. So I am only losing ABC which is no big deal (the other channels I could care less about as well). I also get the LA feeds of CBS and FOX which is great for local recording conflicts.

The fact that the downtown stations (aside from CBS) came in quite well they were never perfect and the PQ is pretty much identical with what I get over the satellite.

As for sat rain-fade/weather - in the 4 years I have been in Colorado I have never had a single problem with loss of signal or picture on the satellite (as a matter of fact I have been with DTV going on 11 years and never had a single problem with them) so I am not concerned about needing a backup for that reason.

mbuchana

10-15-06, 05:45 PM

Anyone notice lip-sync problems from KCNC-DT when they are doing local up-conversion of SD?

I've noticed this for awhile. Audio seem to slightly lead the video, sometimes bad enough to be pretty annoying.

HD programming seems fine--I only see the problem when watching locally upconverted stuff with the dark-grey sidebars.

I'm watching via Comcast, but it seems unlikely that Comcast has anything to do with it.

Mark

disco44

10-16-06, 11:27 AM

flood222

10-16-06, 11:32 AM

oxothuk

10-16-06, 11:58 AM

I live in Thornton near 128th and Washington. Are there any brands or models that someone in this same general location might own, and if anyone has any feedback on how well they work, I would greatly appreciate it. My parents got DirecTV HD locals installed last week, and I was talking to that installer who said you will not get good reception, even with an outdoor antenna, this far north until they put new towers on Lookout Mtn (if or when they do.
Your installer is way too pessimistic. Many of us have been getting OTA HDTV for years from a lot further north than Thornton.

I have had good luck with the Channel Master 4228 mounted outdoors. Maybe JackInThornton could tell you what he uses.

milehighmike

10-16-06, 12:21 PM

I watched the Bronco's OTA and didn't see any macroblocking or issues with motion, etc. I thought the PQ was pretty good.

But........ during the second half of the Phil-NO game yesterday, both 31 and 22 showed SD. Don't know if they forgot to throw the switch or if it was a network problem. Also, at the beginning of the Pit-KC game yesterday, the 5.1 (I presume it was 5.1, didn't actually check) sound was screwed up. All that was coming thru was the stadium sound of the crowd, etc. My son and I thought we'd finally enjoy a game with no announcers. Reminded me of that Jets game about 20 years ago. But eventually everything was back to normal. Wonder if that was a network or KCNC issue?

I guess if stations still didn't have issues with digital transmissions, this thread would be dead. Ooops, I forgot about Lookout!

sunshinedawg

10-16-06, 01:45 PM

Does KUSA's OTA football picture "macroblock"?

I watched the raiders/broncos game at a friends house over comcast and the PQ went south during high motion and or bright colors. Wasn't sure if it was comcast messing with the bandwidth or if its because of KUSA's sub channel.

Thanks!

KUSA football has horrible macroblocking during motion. I don't think it makes a diff whether OTA, Sat, or cable. The pixelating grass is what drives me nuts. I don't think 9-2 is helping any, but I think the problem originates at NBC.

I watched the Bronco's OTA and didn't see any macroblocking or issues with motion, etc. I thought the PQ was pretty good.

Wow! This really surprises me.

pkeegan

10-16-06, 01:54 PM

I watched the Bronco's OTA and didn't see any macroblocking or issues with motion, etc. I thought the PQ was pretty good.

I too watched portions of the game via OTA and didn't have any issues. If only
they would broadcast all thier HD in 5.1.

disco44

10-16-06, 02:36 PM

@Oxothuk

Thanks for your response. I PM'd JackinThornton and got his opinion.

farjo08

10-16-06, 03:40 PM

I am thinking of getting a rooftop antenna so I can get OTA channels via my home theater PC to watch on a plasma. I live in Thornton near 128th and Washington. Are there any brands or models that someone in this same general location might own, and if anyone has any feedback on how well they work, I would greatly appreciate it. My parents got DirecTV HD locals installed last week, and I was talking to that installer who said you will not get good reception, even with an outdoor antenna, this far north until they put new towers on Lookout Mtn (if or when they do.

Also, any local installers that anyone can recommend would be great too, since I am not at all handy. Thanks in advance!

I'm an around 128th and Huron. CW and FOX you can get with an indoor antenna. For the downtown stations you most likely will need to go with an outdoor antenna and pre-amp (that's what I had to do). CBS will most likely be a problem but the rest should come in fine.

I didn't have a direct line of site so I got occasional breakups on the downtown networks but if you have a clear path then you should be fine.

I was using a CM4228 / CM7775 installed outdoors as that was about the only combination I could get working. If you need the equiptment send me a PM with an offer as I am selling them. I also have some spare mounts and posts from the install as well.

BobLikesHDTV

10-17-06, 01:10 AM

Does KUSA's OTA football picture "macroblock"?

I watched the raiders/broncos game at a friends house over comcast and the PQ went south during high motion and or bright colors. Wasn't sure if it was comcast messing with the bandwidth or if its because of KUSA's sub channel.

Thanks!

It was lousy both OTA and through Comcast. Not the first time, either, for Sunday Night Football. The HD commercials looked pristine, though. So I think NBC needs to have a good look and figure out what the problem was.

gakon

10-17-06, 08:05 AM

It was lousy both OTA and through Comcast.I'm not sure I'd call it lousy. It all depends on if you're watching the game or watching the grass looking for problems. Macroblocking was present, but it's a transient thing that I can get over. Maybe the commercials looked better because there wasn't as much fast motion to deal with (less information changing within a given time), so the lower bandwidth due to 9-2 wasn't an issue.

flood222 - what do you mean by the picture going "south during ... brigh colors"? I'm not sure I saw anything like this.

pkeegan

10-17-06, 09:15 AM

KWGN was having audio issues last night. I didn't notice any video issues durring Everybody Hates Chris but the audio was terrible.

TommyK

10-17-06, 05:41 PM

Symbios

10-17-06, 06:46 PM

Hey thanks for the info, TommyK. I was just going to ask what happened.

David_Levin

10-17-06, 08:31 PM

KUSA-DT has lost their OTA signal from Republic. The exciter in the transmitter went kaput. A loaner replacement should be installed within the next 24 hours. Reception of KUSA on Comcast is unaffected.

Dish network (hi-def) isn't working either. They don't get their feed from a hardwire?

adam1115

10-17-06, 10:54 PM

KUSA-DT has lost their OTA signal from Republic. The exciter in the transmitter went kaput. A loaner replacement should be installed within the next 24 hours. Reception of KUSA on Comcast is unaffected.

Wow, and nothing on their website. Don't stations build any kind of redundancy to avoid such a catastrophic failure??

CEB II

10-17-06, 11:12 PM

I watched the Bronco's OTA and didn't see any macroblocking or issues with motion, etc. I thought the PQ was pretty good.

I also thought the PQ via KUSA-DT OTA was very good as it has been for all of the Sunday night games I've watched (3). I was surprised by that since I'm viewing a converted 1080i signal on a 720p native HDTV monitor. Usually the 720p live sports broadcasts look best on my HDTV, but I can't fault what I'm seeing on KUSA-DT. OTOH, KCNC is usually a soft HDTV PQ, whenever they get around to broadcasting an NFL game in HD.

CEB II

10-17-06, 11:17 PM

longrider

10-17-06, 11:41 PM

The lack of redundancy does surprise me. As a far southerner I also watch the Colorado Springs stations and the same thing happened to KOAA 5-1. I dont remember what died but they were off the air for 3 days waiting for the part. I cant remeber the last time analog went off the air for more than a few minutes (Not counting KBDI)

TommyK

10-17-06, 11:41 PM

How inconvenient to have the KUSA-DT channel 9-02 weather channel off the air on the first day in months when the weather isn't conforming to the 10:30 PM forecast the night before. Obviously there is a need for some redundancy here.

Yup, it's actually a night when people might have a reason to tune to the weather plus channel. On the other hand, they're probably just counting their lucky stars the thing didn't crap out for Sunday night's Bronco game.

Big Worms

10-17-06, 11:42 PM

KUSA-DT has lost their OTA signal from Republic. The exciter in the transmitter went kaput. A loaner replacement should be installed within the next 24 hours. Reception of KUSA on Comcast is unaffected.
Damn it! Wish I would have seen this earlier. Friday Night Lights did not record. :(

mknoebel

10-18-06, 12:37 AM

Damn it! Wish I would have seen this earlier. Friday Night Lights did not record. :(

Hmmm. I just checked my HR20, and while it isn't in HD, I do have a recording of FNL from KUSA. I didn't watch the whole thing, but the beginning is there.

*edit*
after about 10 minutes, it switches to HD. :confused:

*edit again*
I'm watching on DirecTv MPEG4 feed.

kucharsk

10-18-06, 02:36 AM

KUSA-DT has lost their OTA signal from Republic. The exciter in the transmitter went kaput. A loaner replacement should be installed within the next 24 hours. Reception of KUSA on Comcast is unaffected.Too bad they couldn't swap in the one from 20-1; no one's watching it anyway. :D

BobLikesHDTV

10-18-06, 10:23 AM

How inconvenient to have the KUSA-DT channel 9-02 weather channel off the air on the first day in months when the weather isn't conforming to the 10:30 PM forecast the night before. Obviously there is a need for some redundancy here.

I agree about the need for redundancy. But, in an off-topic sort of way, I must say for the most part KUSA's weather forecasts are usually off by more than 5%. Conniglio does a pretty good job, but Nick Carter is bad and Kathy Sabine just can't get it right. She's nice to look at in HD, but her forecasts are a complete waste of five minutes every night. And the forecast she offers in the Post every morning is even worse.

To this day the best is the Weather Channel, and may be even better than the Natl Weather Service for accuracy.

I once heard Mike Nelson talk about weather modeling. He said in recent years that the forecasts are less accurate since the NWS and "TV weatherman" certificate curriculum (I'm going to say at the U of Kansas-- can't remember where) incorporated new data and modeling techniques. That is why he uses the older techniques. I think he's probably the most accurate of all, though I don't watch him because his channel has such a cr@#$y PQ. I am so spoiled, now, that it's almost painful to watch 7's "no-def" PQ after seeing Carrie McClure's clear baby blues in HD on KUSA.

adam1115

10-18-06, 11:45 AM

Too bad they couldn't swap in the one from 20-1; no one's watching it anyway. :D

Was their 9:00 PM new in HD on 20-1?

gakon

10-18-06, 12:29 PM

...Kathy Sabine just can't get it right. She's nice to look at in HD, but her forecasts are a complete waste of five minutes every night.

To this day the best is the Weather Channel, and may be even better than the Natl Weather Service for accuracy.That's for sure. If you ever have an inkling that the upcoming weekend weather is going to be bad, don't go to 9News. They'll start out with 10 - 15 degree higher temps and much lower chance of precip than TWC and then gradually close in to the real forecast as the weekend approaches. Sometimes Carter gets the forecast for Saturday right when he's broadcasting on the show that morning.

But I still won't watch any other channel for news...

DennisMileHi

10-18-06, 12:35 PM

In addition to being wrong more than other weather "meteorologists," Kathy can't even talk to the charts that are being displayed on her blue screen. She is often saying words that have nothing to do with the chart displayed. And her cutesy smile and "you bet" comment to the anchors at the end of every weather segment makes me sick. Good thing she is better than average looking.

But, I also will only watch their HD broadcast.

Scott Pro

10-18-06, 02:28 PM

I just got around to reading the Personal Technology article in Monday's USA Today Money section, by Michelle Kessler, titled "Confused about HDTV? Here are some basics." She asked questions of 'experts.'
Here's an excerpt:

Q: Where do I find high-definition content?
A: Two different types of high-definition DVD players, called HD DVD and Blu-ray, are on the market. But there are only about 100 HD DVD and 50 Blu-ray titles available so far. Most cable and satellite TV providers offer some high-definition programming, typically prime-time shows and sporting events.

This is a national newspaper. No mention of over-the-air broadcasting. Zero. This is sad.

gakon

10-18-06, 03:30 PM

In addition to being wrong more than other weather "meteorologists," ...I wonder if they don't normally use the most "positive" of their models if there's a large variation, just to give a good Chamber of Commerce forecast. Although I can't understand why they would do this, their forecasts do seem to predict better weather (rather than worse), at least for the times that I cared to check.

TotallyPreWired

10-18-06, 05:06 PM

Wow, and nothing on their website. Don't stations build any kind of redundancy to avoid such a catastrophic failure??
Not for something that they consider a PITA. I doubt if their digital signal is even reaching 50% of it's intended audience. And, since I doubt that an advertiser can specify 'digital only', all of their revenue still comes from analog.

Look at the bright side: At least you know when they are off air!
....jc

milehighmike

10-19-06, 01:44 AM

I emailed Mark Cornetta at KUSA today regarding the outage. I won't cover everything I commented upon in the email here because I raised some unrelated issues, but I did ask why the station couldn't run a trailer during its newscasts and/or on its website informing OTA viewers of the outage and when they might be up and running again.

As part of his reply, he stated: We don't advertise that our signal is down as
those customers getting us through those distribution streams can see
that. Telling those viewers who can get us that others can't is silly.

I replied to him, by stating, in part: I really don't want to be argumentative, but when an OTA viewer of your digital transmission, like me, can't find your signal and spends time trying to trouble shoot cable connectors, rebooting receivers, etc., I do not find the fact that you won't announce that your digital signal is down, especially on your web page, "silly". Quite the opposite, I find a business plan that equates to ignoring OTA viewers like me "silly".

Also, from what he told me, Comcast and D* get direct fiber feeds of the digital signal, so their subscribers were unaffected by the outage. E* takes the OTA signal.

At least I now know what level of importance KUSA has for its OTA viewers.