I was surprised to see the KUSA news in HD! How long has this been going on? And, do they broadcast any other KUSA programs?
Also, KWGH channel 2 has disappeared from our local channels provided by D*. What's with that?I think it started at the end of last month. They just show the news at 9. If Sunday Night Football is on, you can catch the news on KTVD instead of KUSA at 5 pm (whenever they show "Football Night in America"). In December they're going to add a morning show, also staffed by KUSA personalities.
I'm just guessing, but maybe D* made a decision to drop the previous WB stations. Have you called them yet?

I noticed that issue several days ago and failed to note it here. But, here is the real kicker for me. The squeezed picture only shows up when I use my Dish 811 receiver. If I use my LG LST4200A, the SD broadcast is in normal 4 x 3. This is really bizarre!

This is very interesting. On my E* 921 reciever I also get the "Supersqueeze" picture just like your 811 for the past few days. All of the 'pass through' FOX Network stuff is fine, but anytime they are doing anything locally (Commercials, Newscasts, or afternoon programming) the 'supersqueeze' starts.

Thanks for the heads up, good to know I'm not alone.

I can't figure out what exactly KVDR is doing wrong. All I know is something is wrong!

For me, the picture is normal looking, but it's windowboxed, which is what happens when I view SD content on my 4:3 HDTV. Now normally, I'll use the zoom mode on my receiver to fix that, but my receiver can't seem to manipulate KDVR's picture at all! "Zoom", "Stretch", "Full", they all do absolutely nothing to the picture.

The weirdest damn thing I've seen in a while.

Looks normal (4:3 in the middle of the screen) right now.

But remember anything transmitted in 4:3 letterbox will end up window boxed - presented in a letterboxed window inside the 4:3 window of a 16:9 screen.

I suspect that Fox sends two feeds....one full 16:9 for HD, one letterboxed 4:3 with the downconverted HD in it.

Sounds like the local station has put the HD feed, downconverted, in to their SD chain and is "double converting" it. Maybe they have lost one of their feeds and got things backwards while trying to work around the problem.

Friday night's version of "Men in Trees" on KMGH had a problem I had not yet encountered. The picture was about 2 seconds behind the sound. They cleared it up after about 10 minutes.

What's up, KMGH? What's up with Denver broadcasters in general? I thought HD and all that goes with it would get easier for broadcasters to use the longer it was on the air, that the viewing experience would improve. Apparently not. Macroblocking, sound drop outs, picture drop outs, pixelization, SD images when it should be in HD-- I think it is all much worse this TV season than ever before. And what is it with CBS's football coverage that they switch from Dolby to non-Dolby when going to New York for scores and highlights of a scoring drive from other games? It sounds like crap when they do it. And it can't be good for the internal Dolby switch to be tripped that much over three hours in an audio receiver.

Have the broadcasters once again picked an inferior technology to save a few bucks while spending more in the long-run because of all the problems?

Betamax v VHS. Blue-ray vs HD-DVD vs yet another technology? I'd settle for something that works.

I think it started at the end of last month. They just show the news at 9. If Sunday Night Football is on, you can catch the news on KTVD instead of KUSA at 5 pm (whenever they show "Football Night in America"). In December they're going to add a morning show, also staffed by KUSA personalities.
Now if KUSA could just copy KTVD's antenna configuration, maybe I could watch them. :o
I'm just guessing, but maybe D* made a decision to drop the previous WB stations. Have you called them yet?
I've decided to embark on a simpler, more satisfying lifestyle. Calling D* is contrary to that lifestyle. In other words, if I have to call D* to find out, it's probably not worth it. :)

Thanks,
....jc

I have a friend in Lone Tree going to HD - are the OTA signals viewable in Lone Tree?
How about Castle Rock? Any help would be appreciated.

Lone Tree, probably. Castle Rock, maybe. Part of it is line of sight and part is distance (and there are other parts, too, but with low power signals these two are pretty important). Lone Tree should not have a problem getting signals from both Republic Plaza (4, 7, and 9) and Lookout (2, 20, and 31). Castle Rock has LOS to Lookout, but probably not to Republic Plaza. That doesn't mean you won't get those signals, but you will need to expend more effort. You may be able to get all of the signals in Lone Tree with an indoor antenna - you can start with a cheap indoor one from Radio Shack and start working up if that isn't enough. In Castle Rock I doubt an indoor antenna would work. There are others on this forum who may have experience in your location, too.

Castle rock will really depend on where you are in relation to the hills. If you have clear LOS to the south I will almost guarantee you can get the CS stations. If you are clear to the north then Denver is a maybe. From my location (besides being due east I am a few hundred feet higher) I can get 7 and 9 95% of the time, 4 about 60 - 70% and while 20 has been good I dont watch it enough to give a good opinion. Now if I spin my antenna to the south everything comes on rock solid. (5,11, and 13)

Ernie,

I just saw your bio in today's Rocky (business section). I noticed you even got a plug in for hdtvcolorado.com !

I thought I was going nuts too. The FOX HD squeezed signal is really unwatchable and seems to have started last Thursday. I can't manipulate the picture with either of my 2 tuners, HTPC or OTA HD tuner.

I thought I was going nuts too. The FOX HD squeezed signal is really unwatchable and seems to have started last Thursday. I can't manipulate the picture with either of my 2 tuners, HTPC or OTA HD tuner.

Bring back 14:9! On 2nd thought I'll keep my mouth shut.

Don

Ernie,

I just saw your bio in today's Rocky (business section). I noticed you even got a plug in for hdtvcolorado.com !
http://??????????????
Sorry I missed it, I get the Post and the Daily Camera.

Here's the link...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_5086448,00.html

I just checked and with my HR10-250 and with Comcast, KDVR is the "supersqueezed" version with SD stuff.

J

I just checked and with my HR10-250 and with Comcast, KDVR is the "supersqueezed" version with SD stuff.

J


Where have you been the last couple of days? :D

Seems to be working great for me. (KDVR)

Has anyone else experienced sound drop outs while watching KDVR OTA? I think I've only noticed it during baseball games, but that may be because I haven't watched anything on Fox recently besides sports. I don't recall if football had the same issue Sunday, but I don't think I watched much of their game. Anyway, I've noticed it several times a game the last few weeks, usually lasting for several seconds. When I flip to the west coast feed, I don't have any problems.

Granted, there are much worse times for the sound to go out than when Buck and McCarver are making my ears bleed, but it's still slightly annoying. And I'm just hoping it hasn't affected any shows I've recorded from Fox.

If you have a D* HD Tivo HR10-250 with the 6.3a software, there is a bug causing 8-10 second sound dropouts OTA, especially on Fox. If not, something else is going on.

Well I guess that would explain it. I didn't realize I had received the software upgrade. Thanks for the response.

Seems like KDVRD is back to normal now as far the the picture goes. No more squeezed picture.:)

Well I guess that would explain it. I didn't realize I had received the software upgrade. Thanks for the response.
You're welcome. Here is the thread on Tivo Community Forum that discusses this pain in the a$$ problem:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=316857

KWGN finally had a showing of Veronica Mars in HD without any audio or video hick ups. :)

Too bad Gilmore Girls had issues. :(

KWGN finally had a showing of Veronica Mars in HD without any audio or video hick ups. :)

Too bad Gilmore Girls had issues. :(

Issues? Among other things it was 4:3…

But VM was in SD (and 4:3) on Comcast. Interesting.

The weather today has had an unexpected affect on my receipt of OTA DTV. My strongest RP signal under normal conditions is Channel 20.1, but they are the only RP signal that I'm getting breakups on this morning. Similarly, our "hi-powered" KWGN, which has always been a quirky signal on my RP pointed antenna, is even having breakups when I use my antenna pointed directly at them. However, the slightly lower powered KDVR is as strong as normal via either antenna. Interesting.

Proving that OTA using antennae to pick up low powered stations is definitely ART, not science!

Seems like KDVRD is back to normal now as far the the picture goes. No more squeezed picture.:)

I still wouldn't call it normal.. my TV thinks its 16x9, and FOX is adding their own black bars. Normally my TV thinks it 4x3 and applys its own letterbox.

This totally screws up any attempt to adjust the bars, expand the picture, etc.

KDVR is back to normal for me. I can finally stretch the picture fit my screen again!

The weather today has had an unexpected affect on my receipt of OTA DTV. My strongest RP signal under normal conditions is Channel 20.1, but they are the only RP signal that I'm getting breakups on this morning... Same thing here. Signals from RP were all missing during the heaviest of the snowfall. Only an occasional blinking signal light from a couple of them.

How do I know if a station broadcast in Dolby Digital?

In specific KMGH.

How do I know if a station broadcast in Dolby Digital?

In specific KMGH.
Other than your ears, your receiver should have some means to show whether it is DD 2.0 or DD 5.1. If you don't have a receiver and just use your TV, I don't know.

KMGH is usually DD 5.1 on the prime time HD shows. CBS and FOX are as well. NBC in Denver doesn't do much, if any, DD 5.1, just 2.0.

Yeah I know that. I have a receiver that has the optical cable from the HR10-250 and last night watched Lost and noticed it only was coming in on stereo. I know it is working becuase Dexter on Sunday was in DD. But it sounds like it should be in DD, so maybe I have to check things again.

Sarah a couple of things:

What type of cable are you using? RG-6, I hope?
How long in the cable? Every 25' may loose 1 dB(3 db is 1/2 or twice) the amount of signal.
Check out Antennaweb.org for directions and distances to the transmitters


Good Luck!
....jc

You pegged it. We had RG-59 cable running through the house, and beyond the lack of shielding, my guess is it was shorting out somewhere as well.

So our current setup is Winegard 8800, Radio Shack pre-amp, 50 feet of RG-6 cable. We're getting 2, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20 (drops out frequently), 25, 31, and sometimes 53?? So everything except ch. 4--we can get 4 sometimes, but usually not. I'm thrilled to be watching the World Series in HD...

We will likely put up our combo antenna as well, on the same mast but higher than the 8800, and running through a separate cable. We'll see how that goes--since the 8800 is UHF, our regular VHF reception is poor right now, and I'd like to get ch. 4 in VHF non-HD if I can't get it HD. I might try combining the signals, although I know that may backfire. But it's easy to try...

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

-Sarah

You pegged it. We had RG-59 cable running through the house, and beyond the lack of shielding, my guess is it was shorting out somewhere as well....So everything except ch. 4--we can get 4 sometimes, but usually not.
Glad to hear it!

You might try swinging one of your antennas to the North. If you can pick up KGWN (CBS - Cheyenne - 5.1) you'd be able to get CBS programming & the Broncos in HD. Then use a Join-Tenna to couple the 2 antennas. Just a thought.
....jc

I wonder how often OTARD has been posted here in the last 10 years?!
This week marks the 10th anniversary of OTARD.

The regulations crafted for "Over the Air Reception Devices" (OTARD) allow consumers to install any antenna - including small satellite TV dishes - on their premises without fear of a backlash from local entities or the dreaded homeowner's association. The rules differ a bit between single-family homes and multi-dwelling units such as condos or town homes.

Nonetheless the rules helped the satellite TV business obtain more than 25 million subscribers during the past decade.

Only a handful of other rules and regulations have had a similar impact on satellite TV and its customers. DBS winning the right to deliver local TV channels to consumers is 1999 is one of them. Separate laws crafted in the 1980s legalizing the private reception of unscrambled satellite TV programming and allowing for third-party packaging and C-band user access of network signals also were key developments. And there's another biggie: The 1992 Cable Act that guarantees access to satellite-delivered cable programming services by alternative multichannel video providers, such as DBS operators.

To some, OTARD may seem like a small accomplishment. But that small feat had a tremendous impact on the industry as well as pay-TV competition. And those industry insiders behind the push, including Chuck Hewitt and the late, beloved Taylor Howard, both of whom in the 1990s led the Satellite Broadcasting and Communications Association, should win accolades for their OTARD efforts.

Others behind OTARD's success include Reps. John Dingell (Mich.), Rick Boucher (Va.), Ed Markey (Mass.) and Retired Congressman Billy Tauzin (La.). At the Federal Communications Commission there were Eloise Gore and Rosalee Chiara. And who can forget Buddy Davis, owner of Davis Antenna, who was an early advocate of satellite TV.


Says SBCA's executive director Patricia Sumler, "The OTARD Rule plays an instrumental role in helping protect the consumer's right to have options for television and these people helped to ensure the passage of this vital legislation."


When retailers sell the satellite TV package, installers put that small dish on the roof, and consumers watch television from a DBS provider they have OTARD to thank for the service.

I wonder how often OTARD has been posted here in the last 10 years?!

I think it was posted originally as the "Local Environmentally-Friendly Over the Air Reception Devices" or LEOTARD
:D

You pegged it. We had RG-59 cable running through the house, and beyond the lack of shielding, my guess is it was shorting out somewhere as well.

So our current setup is Winegard 8800, Radio Shack pre-amp, 50 feet of RG-6 cable. We're getting 2, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20 (drops out frequently), 25, 31, and sometimes 53?? So everything except ch. 4--we can get 4 sometimes, but usually not. I'm thrilled to be watching the World Series in HD...

We will likely put up our combo antenna as well, on the same mast but higher than the 8800, and running through a separate cable. We'll see how that goes--since the 8800 is UHF, our regular VHF reception is poor right now, and I'd like to get ch. 4 in VHF non-HD if I can't get it HD. I might try combining the signals, although I know that may backfire. But it's easy to try...

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

-Sarah

Sarah,

The Rat Shack pre-amps have a lot of noise that greatly reduces their effectiveness. You might consider replacing it with a Channel Master 7775 or a 7777, which are low noise pre-amps with a similar level of signal amplification.

Also, if you have room for another antenna on your mast above the 8800, I'd suggest moving the 8800 up as high as possible. In your situation, usually the higher the better with an antenna for DTV.

BTW, Channel 53 is from Castle Rock. Primarily a religious station that also carries some area sporting events. They are at full power now, though that is still only like 300 kw.

CEB

Yes, those Radio Shack preamps are just TERRIBLE. But I did find a neat trick that will help boost your signal when using one of these amps. You just go up on the roof, disconnect it, and throw it in the trash. Works like a charm!

Yes, those Radio Shack preamps are just TERRIBLE. But I did find a neat trick that will help boost your signal when using one of these amps. You just go up on the roof, disconnect it, and throw it in the trash. Works like a charm!

If anybody wants to throw away their RS preamps, I'd be glad to take them off your hands. I don't get RP signals without one.

Yes, those Radio Shack preamps are just TERRIBLE. But I did find a neat trick that will help boost your signal when using one of these amps. You just go up on the roof, disconnect it, and throw it in the trash. Works like a charm!


That is exactly what I found out too. At least they have a good return policy.

If anybody wants to throw away their RS preamps, I'd be glad to take them off your hands. I don't get RP signals without one.

I've got two of them in my excess equipment box.

You pegged it. We had RG-59 cable running through the house, and beyond the lack of shielding, my guess is it was shorting out somewhere as well.

So our current setup is Winegard 8800, Radio Shack pre-amp, 50 feet of RG-6 cable. We're getting 2, 6, 7, 9, 12, 15, 20 (drops out frequently), 25, 31, and sometimes 53?? So everything except ch. 4--we can get 4 sometimes, but usually not. I'm thrilled to be watching the World Series in HD...

We will likely put up our combo antenna as well, on the same mast but higher than the 8800, and running through a separate cable. We'll see how that goes--since the 8800 is UHF, our regular VHF reception is poor right now, and I'd like to get ch. 4 in VHF non-HD if I can't get it HD. I might try combining the signals, although I know that may backfire. But it's easy to try...

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

-Sarah

Not unusual to have a short somewhere. I have one in my house to my bedroom cable outlet - I am sure it is due to a sheet rock screw somewhere.

You guys talikng cable made me think. This is funny.

In the beginning of electronic communication, first we had Edison with wires. Then we went wireless with radio. Then, we went wired again with Cable TV. Then, back to wireless with Satellite. Then wired again with digital cable and HD. Oh, then, wireless again with OTA HD, we're we are now. I better start researching were to invest next... uh, fiber to the home?

Huh, that is kind of funny. I never really thought about that.

If I had to guess, I'd say fiber is the next step. If the whole IPTV thing ever catches on, that is.

Anybody else having problems with KCNC OTA HD right now? Mine seems to have dropped off.

I'm still receiving OTA KCNC. It went to SD after the end of the Bronco's game. During the game the HD was great but their 5.1 broadcast wasn't engineered well. Most of the time the rear channels were quiet, except for the sound during the video gimmics. I would have preferred more of the stadium noise for that "feel your there".

KDVR?

I put my address in antennaweb, KDVR did not come up at all, but the other networks did. What gives?

Thanks in advance.

Eh, who knows why Antennaweb says what it says. I don't trust it at all anymore. According to it, I should only be getting 3 digital channels. But in reality, I get 18!

Eh, who knows why Antennaweb says what it says. I don't trust it at all anymore. According to it, I should only be getting 3 digital channels. But in reality, I get 18!


Thanks. What is the frequency for KDVRDT?

KDVR-DT is on channel 32 in the immediate Denver area.

Anybody else having problems with KCNC OTA HD right now? Mine seems to have dropped off.

Other than their typically soft HD PQ and their usually frequent dropouts of the DD5.1, no problems at all.

KDVR-DT is on channel 32 in the immediate Denver area.

Thanks, but I mean the frequency you look at when you are testing the signal, like ABC is 7.1 but frequency is 17. Anyone? I want to see if I'm picking it up at all, it seems strange I'd get all the others but not Fox.

Thanks, but I mean the frequency you look at when you are testing the signal, like ABC is 7.1 but frequency is 17. Anyone?
CEB told you :p , it's UHF 32.
....jc

Thanks.

I found it on antennaweb by using a different address, it looks like it's further away and in a slightly different direction than the others. I'll play with the antenna more this weekend.

Yesterday, for other reasons, I rescanned my digital OTA channels with my Dish 811 receiver. Everything reloaded correctly, except KCNC. It is loading as Channel 35 and not being converted to 4.1 by the receiver. Now when I select Channel 35, the receiver shows the programming data at first, then the screen stays blank. When I try to switch to another channel the receiver goes into a soft reboot. I've done the rescan 3 times now with the same end result. My LG LST4200A receiver isn't having any problem with the KCNC signal.

Anyone else with a Dish 811 experiencing similar problems? I suspect something is slightly amiss in KCNC's PSIP data and the new software for the 811 doesn't like it.

When I go into the menu to add a channel on the 811 (I do it to check signal strength if I use my roter because its my weakest channel), punch in channel 35, it always comes back as channel 35 instead of showing a remapped channel 4. However, it evidently does remap, even without a "save", because it shows up as channel 4.1 when I punch in channel 4 on the remote. My 211, Accurians, Samsung, and Insignia properly remap 35 to 4.

When E* apparently switched to TV Guide for its guide data a little while ago, I couldn't get the 811 to load the guide info even though each channel showed the proper guide info when tuned. The acquiring program guide progress bar would get to almost the end and freeze (Left it on over an hour over the weekend). I did an unplug, hard reboot, and that solved the problem.

Finally, last night (Monday), KUSA showed Leno in SD until the first commercial, switched to HD for the next segment, then returned to SD for the rest of the program. Did they have an equipment problem last night or is this another case of forgetting to flip the switch?

[QUOTE=milehighmike]When I go into the menu to add a channel on the 811 (I do it to check signal strength if I use my roter because its my weakest channel), punch in channel 35, it always comes back as channel 35 instead of showing a remapped channel 4. However, it evidently does remap, even without a "save", because it shows up as channel 4.1 when I punch in channel 4 on the remote. /QUOTE]

That is the same thing and that has always been the case with my 811 as far 4-1. It never picked it up on a scan but I could add 35 manually. I haven't had 4-1 on that receiver for a couple of days but it is working now.

[QUOTE=milehighmike]When I go into the menu to add a channel on the 811 (I do it to check signal strength if I use my roter because its my weakest channel), punch in channel 35, it always comes back as channel 35 instead of showing a remapped channel 4. However, it evidently does remap, even without a "save", because it shows up as channel 4.1 when I punch in channel 4 on the remote. /QUOTE]

That is the same thing and that has always been the case with my 811 as far 4-1. It never picked it up on a scan but I could add 35 manually. I haven't had 4-1 on that receiver for a couple of days but it is working now.

I can load Channel 35 from both a scan and manually. However, since my last hard reboot of my Dish 811 receiver and rescan of OTA channels, it stays as Channel 35 in the receivable channels listing.

What's worse is that if I select that Channel 35 as the channel to view, the 811 now freezes up and goes into a reboot every time. This never happened before and it is driving me crazy.

I'm going to call Dish, but I wanted to see if I'm the only 811 owner in Denver with this problem. I expect to not get much help from Dish. I also suspect this problem is directly related to Dish's software upgrade of the 811 last month.

OK - off topic - but does anyone know why tonights Avs game was blocked in HD (Channel 95 on D*)

OK - off topic - but does anyone know why tonights Avs game was blocked in HD (Channel 95 on D*)

3 possibilities I can think of - was it a home game? I believe only home games are HD on Altitude. Was it a sellout? I admit I dont know the sellout/broadcast rules for hockey but the thought came to mind. One last thing we would probably never find out but since each spot beam covers several cities could another city served by our beam had a game D* thought was more important??

it was an away game to st. louis, and the HD broadcast was provided by FSN Midwest. It was blacked out because the game was covered locally (unfortunately only in SD) by Altitude.

So does anyone know why the HD/SD situation exists with the hockey coverage? It seems the same thing happened during the baseball season with HD broadcasts blacked out. Does Altitude do its own coverage with non-HD cameras at away games like St. Louis, do they not want to pay a premium to FSN for an HD feed, or does FSN not even make the HD feed available? Or perhaps FSN is still upset since it lost its local coverage here to Altitude?

it's directv doing the blacking out, just like they black out the game on the SD fox sports midwest if they are showing a pro game on FSN Midwest and you don't live in the zone it covers. channel 95 wasn't an "HD Event" channel. essentially it was "FSN Midwest HD" at the time and directv was obligated to black it out because of regional restrictions imposed by the NHL and FSN.

I remember last year altitude carried a couple away games in HD, i think it was either the ducks or the sharks. so now whenever there is a road game on, i check InHD (the channel avs games are on in HD on comcast) when the game starts. there hasn't been a road game available in HD yet this season, but i keep hoping :)

Slightly random question I was wondering if anyone here could answer. I believe just about every ABC regional football telecast has at least one game in SD and one in HD. If a station is scheduled to show the SD game (for example, tomorrow's Missouri-Nebraska game), is there any reason they cannot show the HD game (Penn State-Wisconsin tomorrow) on their HD channel at the same time? I'm pretty sure I've seen this done in the past, but I believe it was for either NFL or NCAA basketball.

It seems logical to me, so I was wondering if there is a reason why the station cannot do this. I'm asking this knowing full well that logic means nothing in many instances.

I believe just about every ABC regional football telecast has at least one game in SD and one in HD. If a station is scheduled to show the SD game (for example, tomorrow's Missouri-Nebraska game), is there any reason they cannot show the HD game (Penn State-Wisconsin tomorrow) on their HD channel at the same time? I'm pretty sure I've seen this done in the past, but I believe it was for either NFL or NCAA basketball.
Technically, probably not.

It seems logical to me, so I was wondering if there is a reason why the station cannot do this. I'm asking this knowing full well that logic means nothing in many instances.
It probably comes down to licensing and $$$$. Ya see, if the MU vs NU game was not being broadcast here, but say in Missouri and Nebraska, it would be on Gameplan, and they could make money by offering it. If they simulcast both games, then they'd loose the money that some would pay to see the game.

Now if you've got the D* East or West coast feed, you could watch the Penn State-Wisconsin game HD. I have that ability, but I'll be watching the MU vs NU game in wonderful SD. ;)
....jc

Thanks for the response. I agree that it probably comes down to $$$, but I guess I wasn't sure how. The local affiliate doesn't benefit from having people purchase gameplan, while they would benefit by being able to show both games. My knowledge of the ins and outs of the television industry is limited, but I'm guessing the bottom line is that KMGH is at the mercy of the mouse.

And I only get the Fox and CBS west coast feeds, so it'll be stunning SD for me as well.

It looks like the OTA antenna business has been good to the Winegard family. Ironically, this beautiful home is in a location that even the most powerful antenna won't help them receive OTA signals. I wonder if they know that Denver is potentially their greatest market with all of us nut jobs climbing on our roofs and spinning antennas around trying to capture the pathetic OTA signals we have here?

http://www.denverpost.com/room/ci_4585822

Slightly random question I was wondering if anyone here could answer. I believe just about every ABC regional football telecast has at least one game in SD and one in HD. If a station is scheduled to show the SD game (for example, tomorrow's Missouri-Nebraska game), is there any reason they cannot show the HD game (Penn State-Wisconsin tomorrow) on their HD channel at the same time? I'm pretty sure I've seen this done in the past, but I believe it was for either NFL or NCAA basketball.

It seems logical to me, so I was wondering if there is a reason why the station cannot do this. I'm asking this knowing full well that logic means nothing in many instances.

CBS did this with the college basketball tournament last year. It was cool to use the PIP to watch two different CBS games at once.

Slightly random question I was wondering if anyone here could answer. I believe just about every ABC regional football telecast has at least one game in SD and one in HD. If a station is scheduled to show the SD game (for example, tomorrow's Missouri-Nebraska game), is there any reason they cannot show the HD game (Penn State-Wisconsin tomorrow) on their HD channel at the same time? I'm pretty sure I've seen this done in the past, but I believe it was for either NFL or NCAA basketball.

It seems logical to me, so I was wondering if there is a reason why the station cannot do this. I'm asking this knowing full well that logic means nothing in many instances.

Coincidentally, Rex, at 10 AM I tuned in for the SD-only broadcast of Missouri/Nebraska on KMGH. I checked ch 7.1 and there was Wisconsin/Penn State in HD. However, at 10:08 AM the trainees realized their mistake and switched 7.1 back to MU/NU in stunning SD with sidebars. So you're right - they CAN do this, but only for 8 minutes! Maybe it's a union thing.

Coincidentally, Rex, at 10 AM I tuned in for the SD-only broadcast of Missouri/Nebraska on KMGH. I checked ch 7.1 and there was Wisconsin/Penn State in HD. However, at 10:08 AM the trainees realized their mistake and switched 7.1 back to MU/NU in stunning SD with sidebars. So you're right - they CAN do this, but only for 8 minutes! Maybe it's a union thing.

That's interesting. Here's the response I got from KMGH regarding my inquiry into the matter:

Dear Viewer:

The ABC network will only feed one college football game to us, so we
don't have the option of showing one on SD and one on HD.

We appreciate your writing and asking. And thank you for watching.

It looks like the OTA antenna business has been good to the Winegard family. Ironically, this beautiful home is in a location that even the most powerful antenna won't help them receive OTA signals. I wonder if they know that Denver is potentially their greatest market with all of us nut jobs climbing on our roofs and spinning antennas around trying to capture the pathetic OTA signals we have here?

I wonder if, in his next inspired moment, will Winegard start building DTV Translator equipment? Hope so!

It looks like the OTA antenna business has been good to the Winegard family. Ironically, this beautiful home is in a location that even the most powerful antenna won't help them receive OTA signals. I wonder if they know that Denver is potentially their greatest market with all of us nut jobs climbing on our roofs and spinning antennas around trying to capture the pathetic OTA signals we have here?

http://www.denverpost.com/room/ci_4585822
winegard has made satellite dishes for directv too, that's probably how they got most of their money and how they get their TV ;)

Commissioner Auburn was recently named to the National Association of Counties’ (NACo) Telecommunications & Technology Steering Committee. Odd that they would do that before the election?

http://co.jefferson.co.us/news/news_item_T3_R366.htm

I'm really enjoying these SD games on CBS.. NOT!

What the hell?!?!?!?!? Thanks CBS!

It's supposed to be in HD - either KCNC is messed up or CBS messed up - 90% of the nation is watching this game.....

It's supposed to be in HD - either KCNC is messed up or CBS messed up - 90% of the nation is watching this game.....
It's in HD. Since KCNC apparently doesn't want me to watch their station, I'm watching via KGWN in Cheyenne. And they or CBS had bad sound problems in the beginning, but have fixed it.
....jc

It's in HD. Since KCNC apparently doesn't want me to watch their station, I'm watching via KGWN in Cheyenne. And they or CBS had bad sound problems in the beginning, but have fixed it.
....jc

When I first turned on the game, I thought it was in SD today. But then I found it in HD from another source, so I knew that KCNC dropped the ball.

I think CBS is only able to transmit 2 HD games at a time. Sometimes when the early games run a little late there is a delay in switching to HD for the late game. It is not necessarily KCNCs' fault.

I'm getting it on both my E* NY feed and KCNC. Looks much better via OTA. It was in HD as soon as I turned it on, but of course I just got home 15 minutes ago.

I think CBS is only able to transmit 2 HD games at a time. Sometimes when the early games run a little late there is a delay in switching to HD for the late game. It is not necessarily KCNCs' fault.
True, and I've seen that happen. However, if KGWN had the game in HD, I have to think that KCNC screwed up.
....jc

Entire Chiefs game was in SD.. part of the bronco's game in SD.

Lame.

I think CBS is only able to transmit 2 HD games at a time. Sometimes when the early games run a little late there is a delay in switching to HD for the late game. It is not necessarily KCNCs' fault.

What he said!

CBS actually pulled the plug on the HD feed from Miami with about 1 Minute left and switched that transponder to the second HD game (Broncos) since the Miami game was not in doubt. Two HD feeds is SOP for CBS as they have their network set up at this time for only two simultaneous national HD feeds (normally East Coast and West Coast feeds). I have no idea why CBS has never bothered to do more than two HD feeds. ABC shares their HD national feeds with ESPN for sports and has capability for more than two at a time although they are limited as well if ESPN is showing two college games in HD at the same time, and Fox obviously has capability for more than one. I don't know if NBC has ever needed more than two since their sports is usually national (golf, Notre Dame FB, NASCAR etc.).

The Bengals game was also in HD in the early game and was over in time, but apparently they had scheduled the affiliates to do the second game on the Miami/Bears transponder. The first transponder from the Bengals game was available at about 2 PM. Such is life. I wasn't watching on KCNC, so I don't know when they actually picked up the HD feed. They would have had to use the SD affiliate feed for the start of the Bronco game and monitor the national HD feed to know when the switch occurred to the Bronco game. My guess is that they were caught by surprise by the 'quick' exit from the Miami game. Usually CBS doesn't switch until the first game is completed. The early switch was unusual for them today. Hope that makes sense, this will occur every week with the second Sunday game until CBS and the affiliates add more transmitters and receivers.

Anyway, all's well that end's well, nearly all of the game was in HD and the Broncos won too. What more can you want.

Anyway, all's well that end's well, nearly all of the game was in HD and the Broncos won too. What more can you want.

The chiefs game in HD. The ENTIRE game was SD.

So can anyone give me the email address for the technical contact at KCNC? Dish says my Channel 35 that won't convert to 4.1 and give me a picture on my Dish 811 receiver is PSIP problem with KCNC.

You can look in HD Sports Guide http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ to see whether specific CBS games will be in HD or not. Oddly enough, they claim there will be 3 early HD games and no late ones (ie the Broncos) next week.

Gribblenation also provides maps starting Weds or Thurs each week of what will be shown where. http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/

Bill

On D* guide the KC game was not listed as HD for CBS local
and someone did forget to throw the switch for HD on the Bronco game till way into the first half

You can look in HD Sports Guide http://www.hdsportsguide.com/ to see whether specific CBS games will be in HD or not. Oddly enough, they claim there will be 3 early HD games and no late ones (ie the Broncos) next week.

Gribblenation also provides maps starting Weds or Thurs each week of what will be shown where. http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/

Bill
I noticed in one of the adds on the air yesterday that they showed 3 early HD games and the late Bronco game not in HD. Not sure if that is a mistake or they have set up a new third HD transponder frequency. They have been using the same two frequencies (E & W or Primary & Backup feeds) for such a long time that I suspect their transmitters and affiliate receivers are tuned to their appropriate single frequency and may not even be easily adjustable. If they bought a third uplink transmitter and they already have leased numerous transponders on IA6 for HD backhauls and other signals, the local affiliates "should" be able to tune to the appropriate frequency for the game in their area. It really shouldn't be that tough, and it's all on the same satellite so they wouldn't have to re-point the receiving dish. It may be the real limit was always the number of HD trucks they had available each week (3) and they simply chose to do only two games at a time.

The D* NFLST HD list on my HR20 for next Sunday shows 3 games (Chargers, Bills, & Jets as the visiting team which determines that CBS has the rights for the game) as in HD and starting at 11 AM, so it may be that CBS has finally made arrangements for three simultaneous feeds. They do not show a late CBS game in HD on the D* schedule, only Fox games. Broncos in SD, boo hissss!

Whatever the case (I can only comment as an outside observer), it sounds like the folks at KCNC need to keep a technician in the office on Sundays who has been told what the CBS policy is for the HD games of the day and monitors both SD and HD feeds and also knows how to flip the switch.

I called KCNC yesterday when the Broncos game started out in SD. I was told that they could not get the HD feed until the HD feed from the Dolphins/Bears games was released. This was not a case of forgetting to flip the switch and was not something that lasted way into the first half, as others have posted.

I called KCNC yesterday when the Broncos game started out in SD. I was told that they could not get the HD feed until the HD feed from the Dolphins/Bears games was released. This was not a case of forgetting to flip the switch and was not something that lasted way into the first half, as others have posted.
The national feed to the affiliates was switched to the Bronco game only a few minutes into the game (maybe at 12 or 13 minutes left in the first Q). I don't have a recording of it so I can't be exact, but I was watching in HD for all but a couple of minutes. If KCNC was still not HD it was their fault, not the national feed.

Well, I don't know about that. The game started out in SD on KKTV as well.

Posted by JMartinko:
The national feed to the affiliates was switched to the Bronco game only a few minutes into the game (maybe at 12 or 13 minutes left in the first Q). I don't have a recording of it so I can't be exact, but I was watching in HD for all but a couple of minutes. If KCNC was still not HD it was their fault, not the national feed.

John, I agree. When the game started, at about 2:15, it was in SD on KCNC. I called them almost immediately. The game went HD before 2:30. So I think KCNC switched to HD as soon as the feed was made available to them. The person I talked to at KCNC said they were well aware of the fact that the game was HD but couldn't do anything about it until they got the HD feed. I don't think KCNC did anything wrong here. I think it was a CBS network problem.

Correct, as Mike mentioned above, the stations only have one HD network feed to them. So, if the network is still airing the preceding game, they cannot send the 2nd game in HD. So, as soon as the 1st game ends, they then uplink to the stations the 2nd game in HD. It happens in most markets, not just Denver.

I don't think KCNC did anything wrong here. I think it was a CBS network problem.
:rolleyes:
Again, KGWN had the game in HD from the get go. At 2:10 I realized that it was time for the game. I turned to CBS West, they had the Chargers game. So, I connected my antenna, and it was HD. Now, if someone else caught it, the sound was all messed up. Bad. All of the volume was coming from the Left rear. It took them quite a while to fix it. Maybe KGWN had 2 sources for the game, and switched fixing the sound? Who knows, but the pic was indeed HD!
....jc

I guess I'll have to check this out next time this SD/HD situation happens since I also receive KGWN. I don't bother with KGWN much, their sound is usually horrid. And I think their PQ probably suffers a little too since they carry the CW (I think) on an SD sub-channel.

Looks like I'll have to wait a while to do this. The Oakland game is probably going to be in SD, San Diego just got switched to Sunday night on NBC, then there's KC on NFL Network on Turkey Day and Seattle on Fox after that.

I guess I'll have to check this out next time this SD/HD situation happens since I also receive KGWN. I don't bother with KGWN much, their sound is usually horrid. And I think their PQ probably suffers a little too since they carry the CW (I think) on an SD sub-channel.
Yup. I know that they used to use some bandwidth on an SD version of their HD feed. :eek: And, their sound problems, well, they are well documented. Sunday, it was something else!

On the other hand, they are my CBS HD savior. With KCNC and C/S being a no show at my location, I count myself as very lucky to be able to receive them. So, even their bit starved picture, and sometimes lousy sound, trump SD any day of the week.
....jc

KGWN didn't have to switch anything since their early game was Dolphins-Bears in HD. I wonder why the NFL lets CBS get away with broadcasting only 3 HD games each Sunday.

So KGWN sometimes carries different NFL games than KCNC? I didn't know that, never bothered to check. Looks like I have another choice of games when the Broncos aren't on.

KGWN didn't have to switch anything since their early game was Dolphins-Bears in HD. I wonder why the NFL lets CBS get away with broadcasting only 3 HD games each Sunday.
They may not have any say in the matter(or D* doesn't want them to :o ). Hopefully, next year it'll be all of the games. Things are definitely getting better. Remember last year ABC broadcast a wopping 6 college(non bowl) games in HD. This year, it's 2 or 3 every weekend.


So KGWN sometimes carries different NFL games than KCNC? I didn't know that, never bothered to check. Looks like I have another choice of games when the Broncos aren't on.
Yes, sometimes! It's not often, but like last Sunday, it does happen. And, when it does happen, it's nice to have a choice!
....jc

In regards to this last Sundays Bronco Game and the beginning in SD - I received a response direct from KCNC...... Here it is...

I appreciate your frustration and would like to share with you
that at times we are limited by the capacity of the CBS system to
deliver HD signals.

The bandwidth available on satellites is limited and not every city can
watch every game in HD at the same time as we are delivering SD to every
city. Each week CBS designates certain games to be broadcast in HD. The
Broncos game was scheduled to air on the same HD transponder as the
Chicago/Miami game which started at 11AM but didn't end until 2:27PM.
After that game was over, CBS switched over to the Denver game in HD.

As we near the 2009 date when we switch to HD only, more and more SD
equipment will be replaced with its HD counterpart, but for now, the
digital migration is far from over.

I realize that explanation doesn't solve your frustration but I did want
to share with you what happened last Sunday.

god even the "switch to HD" misinformation is coming from the channels themselves now.

Okay, all you political gearheads. Does Kathy Hartman's (D) election (or was it re-election?) in Jeffco's District 3 County Commissioners' race help us or hurt us in the quest for a full-powered HD tower on Lookout Mt?

Doesn't look good....

http://www.kathyhartman.org/where-i-stand

Nope. Not good at all. From what I've heard, she still seems to think the new tower is going to cause everyone to grow a second head.

When does the newly elected officials take office? Jan 1? If so, hopefully the current commishes vote before.

The current commissioners are anti-tower, so the election of another isn't going to make a difference.

Our home has a clear NE to South view over Boulder. What type of antenna works well without a rotor so we revieve Longmont and Denver stations? Will snow stick to the Lacrosse?

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet...

We have E* and during LOST last night, KMGH-DT appeared to suddenly switch to the live East Coast HD feed. So suddenly we were watching 'The Nine' in HD, then just as suddenly we were watching LOST in SD.

After this I switched to the primary channel for KMGH instead of the remapped 007-00 on the ViP622, and I might have picked the wrong one (can't recall). For a spell, we were watching 'The Nine' in SD instead of LOST.

This sure seems like KMGH's time-delay buffering equipment went south for a while. It stayed that way through the end of LOST, and we were more than a little peeved, since we won't see LOST again until February. The fact that LOST is really the only primetime major network show we record on the DVR made it that much more infuriating. :mad:

Being an electrical engineer, the very first question I ask when something like this happens is this: Don't you have redundant equipment with active/standby failover switching? This is the #18 DMA in the country, you would think that this stuff should be robust by now. I just don't understand.

Being an electrical engineer, the very first question I ask when something like this happens is this: Don't you have redundant equipment with active/standby failover switching? This is the #18 DMA in the country, you would think that this stuff should be robust by now. I just don't understand.
You haven't been around long enough. Here are some keywords:
Temporary....
Top of Office Building....
6 kW....
Don't give a f***....
PITA....
No ad revenue from HD....
La Tee Da...

This ain't NY. During the blizzard a few weeks ago, KKTV(CBS) in the Springs was completely off the air(Analog, HD, satellite too) for over 12 hours. Backup power? HaHaHa.

Until digital broadcasts are the main source of revenue, expect the same. Over, and over, and over.
....jc

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet...

We have E* and during LOST last night, KMGH-DT appeared to suddenly switch to the live East Coast HD feed.

It was mentioned in the great big Lost thread (although it seems like it was a local issue).

What was even more annoying was the ABC election coverage taking up half of the (SD) screen, with ABC news music blaring over the audio of the show. :mad:

The current commissioners are anti-tower, so the election of another isn't going to make a difference.Not true. McKasky voted No, Congrove voted Yes, and from all the recent info we have leaned, Auburn who first voted no, was now in the Yes catagory. So, if they vote before Harman takes office, we might get a 2-1 Yes vote.

It was mentioned in the great big Lost thread (although it seems like it was a local issue).

What was even more annoying was the ABC election coverage taking up half of the (SD) screen, with ABC news music blaring over the audio of the show. :mad:

I wasn't stoked about that either. I have to say, I don't consider that newsworthy enough to screw up my show - that could EASILY have been done in a :30 hit during the commercial breaks. No one's health or safety depended upon timely delivery of that info.

You haven't been around long enough. Here are some keywords:
Temporary....
Top of Office Building....
6 kW....
Don't give a f***....
PITA....
No ad revenue from HD....
La Tee Da...

This ain't NY. During the blizzard a few weeks ago, KKTV(CBS) in the Springs was completely off the air(Analog, HD, satellite too) for over 12 hours. Backup power? HaHaHa.

Until digital broadcasts are the main source of revenue, expect the same. Over, and over, and over.
....jc

Well, I think you are partially correct. I think I have been around long enough, because I've seen that kind of garbage all too often in our fabulous dollar driven society. :rolleyes:

However, an affiliate in a decent sized market being COMPLETELY off-air for over 12 hours is absolutely unacceptable.

We had some nasty thunderstorms and some doozy snowstorms go through Omaha when I was growing up, and I have never seen a station off-air for more than a matter of minutes.

If they want to make the argument that the landscape is different now and they don't have the same ad revenues and thus have a different budget structure, then fine. But they are licensed by the FCC and part of that licensing is a responsibility to provide a QoS for emergency services.

If the FCC was doing what they were supposed to and not coddling mega-corps, they would make it clear to the owners of these operations that their licenses are in jeopardy if they can't maintain their signal.

Of course, we all know the FCC is bought and paid for, so that isn't too likely to happen any time soon. :(

However, an affiliate in a decent sized market being COMPLETELY off-air for over 12 hours is absolutely unacceptable.
Well, hmmmm, not completely....Apparently their feed got out to cable! :eek:

We had some nasty thunderstorms and some doozy snowstorms go through Omaha when I was growing up, and I have never seen a station off-air for more than a matter of minutes.
And, don't forget a decent sized tornado! I escaped the 'tax-me' state in '92, so you aren't alone!

If the FCC was doing what they were supposed to and not coddling mega-corps, they would make it clear to the owners of these operations that their licenses are in jeopardy if they can't maintain their signal.

Of course, we all know the FCC is bought and paid for, so that isn't too likely to happen any time soon. :(
Yup. And that's exactly why laws like SHREVA are so pro broadcaster and anti consumer. What happened this week needs to happen again, and again, until laws are actually crafted for us.
....jc

Our home has a clear NE to South view over Boulder. What type of antenna works well without a rotor so we revieve Longmont and Denver stations? Will snow stick to the Lacrosse?

You might look into the CM4228 from Channel Master.

Not true. McKasky voted No, Congrove voted Yes, and from all the recent info we have leaned, Auburn who first voted no, was now in the Yes catagory. So, if they vote before Harman takes office, we might get a 2-1 Yes vote.
McCasky voted Yes. Congrove voted No. Initially their votes were limited just to nothing more then safety in case there was a a tower collapse. Now they are able to look at everything (back to ground zero) and will this change their decision only they know for sure at this time.

Doesn't look good....

http://www.kathyhartman.org/where-i-stand

Last Tuesday, every JeffCo office except for the Coroner and Hartman, had a Republican voted in. I hope that Hartman's strong anti-tower stance and Auburn leaning pro-tower wasn't the reason Hartman was able to buck the trend.

BTW, my Dish 811 receiver still can't decode KCNC's PSIP signal (receiver goes into a soft reboot when I try to select the Channel 35 that I manually added). Anybody got the name, phone or e-mail for a technical contact at KCNC?

BTW, my Dish 811 receiver still can't decode KCNC's PSIP signal (receiver goes into a soft reboot when I try to select the Channel 35 that I manually added). Anybody got the name, phone or e-mail for a technical contact at KCNC?

David Layne would be the guy to contact. Last I heard, he's still the director of broadcast operations and engineering at KCNC.

CEB II,
I'm not so sure this is a KCNC problem. I have the Dish 811 and it decodes KCNC just fine. I haven't seen any other posts with this problem. FWIW, I think the problem is in the receiver. These 811's aren't the best, as far as reliability goes. I think I've had mine for about 3 years and I know I'm on the third one.

McCasky voted Yes. Congrove voted No. Initially their votes were limited just to nothing more then safety in case there was a a tower collapse. Now they are able to look at everything (back to ground zero) and will this change their decision only they know for sure at this time.So who cares what they vote. It isn't like a 3-0 Yes vote is gonna get us a tower anyway :mad:

Is it even up to the commissioners any more? Doesn't it all hinge on Judge Jackson at this point?

Being an electrical engineer, the very first question I ask when something like this happens is this: Don't you have redundant equipment with active/standby failover switching? This is the #18 DMA in the country, you would think that this stuff should be robust by now. I just don't understand.Almost none of this is automated at this point; it's all done by hand which is why we get SD after a commercial if the control op forgets to (literally) throw the switch.

Frankly I have my doubts if the operators even have the ability to monitor the HD feed, so odds are they didn't know. Either that or they had no idea a screwup happened when they recorded the east coast feed but didn't bother watching when they played it back.

McCasky voted Yes. Congrove voted No.Ooops, my mistype. I flipped these two. Is it even up to the commissioners any more? Doesn't it all hinge on Judge Jackson at this point?Judge Jackson sent it back to them to re-vote, but only on the tower fall issue. It is true, they can consider all the previous information. But, Judge Jackson has made it clear, they can only vote on facts, not all the sCARE BS and theory. If for some reason they vote no, they will have to answer to Judge Jackson as to what evidence (there is none) they based that on.

Oh, as a side note, Judge R. Brook Jackson's appointment was up for vote also. He got voted to be retained in Judicial District 1.

then there's KC on NFL Network on Turkey Day and Seattle on Fox after that.

If this has been discussed, I guess that I missed it, so I apologize for asking again. Has anyone heard what D* is going to do for HD delivery on games that are exclusive to the NFL network? Will they use one of the 90 series channels (is it 96 that they use for soem one off HD things?), will one of the locals be given access to the feed, or will D* subscribers just be SOL for HD on those games? I noticed that E* setup a unique channel for full time NFL network HD...I have seen nothing like that from D*. Sure would be nice to get HD for those games that are exclusive to the NFL Network.

Phil P

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet...

We have E* and during LOST last night, KMGH-DT appeared to suddenly switch to the live East Coast HD feed. So suddenly we were watching 'The Nine' in HD, then just as suddenly we were watching LOST in SD.

After this I switched to the primary channel for KMGH instead of the remapped 007-00 on the ViP622, and I might have picked the wrong one (can't recall). For a spell, we were watching 'The Nine' in SD instead of LOST.

This sure seems like KMGH's time-delay buffering equipment went south for a while. It stayed that way through the end of LOST, and we were more than a little peeved, since we won't see LOST again until February. The fact that LOST is really the only primetime major network show we record on the DVR made it that much more infuriating. :mad:

Being an electrical engineer, the very first question I ask when something like this happens is this: Don't you have redundant equipment with active/standby failover switching? This is the #18 DMA in the country, you would think that this stuff should be robust by now. I just don't understand.

Hello. I'm brand new to this board, but am an active member of DBSTalk. I have DirecTV, with an HR20, and am using HDMI and optical audio. I don't have OTA.

I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this with "Lost" on Wednesday night, and it looks like the answer is "yes." This is a good thing, because I thought I was crazy! The show started out in HD and then, suddenly, switched to SD. I changed channels for a few seconds, but when I returned to KMGH, there was something that looked like a travel program on! Changed channels again, and this time when I came back to KMGH, "The Nine" was on, in SD. Then my TV screen went totally black and I had to do a "red button" reset.

I hope that between this board and DBSTalk I can get most of my questions answered. I really thought that by getting the HR20 I would have access to Denver locals in "stunning HD." But now it seems that because the locals either don't have the technical knowledge, the proper equipment, or the desire to provide quality HD service, it probably won't be until the 2009 mandate that all of the problems are fixed.

The thing that happened to Lost on wed. was a national.

The thing that happened to Lost on wed. was a national.Where did you see that the problem during LOST was a national issue? I only saw one post on the LOST thread, and that was by HDNair, who's here in Denver. No one else but me responded on that thread.

The NFL Network's Broncos/Chiefs game on Thanksgiving night is being simulcast on KDVR FOX-31 in HD! The Broncos will be 7-3 after that game. Pass me a turkey leg, please.

The NFL Network's Broncos/Chiefs game on Thanksgiving night is being simulcast on KDVR FOX-31 in HD! The Broncos will be 7-3 after that game. Pass me a turkey leg, please.
I pretty much expected that(after the preseason game). The ? is: will D* be providing the game in HD? If so, will they be blacking out portions of Colorado? And, what about the Springs?

I s/b able to get the game on KDVR, but there are a lot of other people down South who can't.
....jc

From what I understand on the satelliteguys website, it sounds like the Thanksgiving NFL Network Bronco game will be carried on channel 93 in HD. We'll just have to suffer through the Bronco / Raider game in SD on Sunday.

I'm suprised there's nothing else in here about it... was anyone else frustrated with KUSA the past week? L&O CI and ER were both screwed up, repeating a one second portion of the show for about three minutes before they figured out what was going on. SD feed was fine.

... was anyone else frustrated with KUSA the past week?

KUSA is, by far, the worst of the Denver locals. They have the most problems -- and do not/cannot/refuse to broadcast in DD 5.1. I must admist, however, that after what happened this past week, KMGH is running a close second!

From what I understand on the satelliteguys website, it sounds like the Thanksgiving NFL Network Bronco game will be carried on channel 93 in HD.
Yea, for 49 other states! I fully expect KDVR to exercise their rights, and force a blackout or 2. I hope that I'm wrong, but we'll see!

Wait. :eek: I won't be here on Thanksgiving! Someone else will have to see! :confused:
....jc

Where did you see that the problem during LOST was a national issue? I only saw one post on the LOST thread, and that was by HDNair, who's here in Denver. No one else but me responded on that thread.


Your right! My bad! I didn't realize he's here. I thought sure I read it somewhere else too but I can't find anything on any of the other threads I read.

They all get blured together some times.:D

KUSA is, by far, the worst of the Denver locals. They have the most problems -- and do not/cannot/refuse to broadcast in DD 5.1. I must admist, however, that after what happened this past week, KMGH is running a close second!

Indeed, that's what we get from the self-proclaimed leader in HD. They have screwed up Friday Night Lights fairly consistently for the past several weeks. Fortunately they've been doing OK on Earl and Office.

I'm still only getting 9-1 and 4-1 from RP. I'd be happy to get even sporadic 7-1 ABC.

But it still just won't lock on my SIR-T451.

I can't understand how I can get Cheyenne and Denver from my house, the other RP stations, and 7-1 just won't come in. WTF? So irritating.

Without sounding like a Viagra ad, can I get a mast extender? MY Winegard amplified wing antenna is at 5300 feet. Would going up another 12 or so be helpful?

From what I understand on the satelliteguys website, it sounds like the Thanksgiving NFL Network Bronco game will be carried on channel 93 in HD. We'll just have to suffer through the Bronco / Raider game in SD on Sunday.

And another post said it would be on FOX.

Is this a regular arrangement for FOX and the NFL network going forward, or just for this game? Apparently the NFL network has several Thursday night games ETC. down the road. UNtil D* gets a channel for NFL Network HD, should we expect that ...In Denver, we will be able to pick those up in HD ??

Phil P.

I can't understand how I can get Cheyenne and Denver from my house, the other RP stations, and 7-1 just won't come in. WTF? So irritating.
Irritating, Yes. Normal, Yes.

Without sounding like a Viagra ad, can I get a mast extender? MY Winegard amplified wing antenna is at 5300 feet. Would going up another 12 or so be helpful?
Ok, put the pills down. :p Signals don't always radiate evenly. Your best bet is to try moving your antenna a bit. Maybe just inches.

As far as RP. If you've seen the picture, all of the antennas are at the same elevation and just feet from each other. I should get all or none, right? Wrong, I receive UPN 24/7, KUSA never, and the rest are basically determined by the atmospheric conditions. One station engineer suggested that maybe the 'beam tilts' of the antennas are different. Whatever, in this low power situation, it all sucks.
....jc

[OT]
FWIW, CBS indeed does have three simultaneous HD NFL football feeds today as advertised. This is a first for them AFAIK (although I certainly haven't been keeping a log). Guess this also means for sure the Broncos game will be SD only.
:(

[/OT}

And another post said it would be on FOX.

Is this a regular arrangement for FOX and the NFL network going forward, or just for this game? Apparently the NFL network has several Thursday night games ETC. down the road. UNtil D* gets a channel for NFL Network HD, should we expect that ...In Denver, we will be able to pick those up in HD ??

Phil P.

This arrangement is only for local teams playing on the NFL Network or ESPN.

For hometown viewers who do not subscribe to cable or satellite service, the NFL permits any game that is presented exclusively on a cable network (ESPN, NFL Network) to be made available for ota broadcast to one station in each of the local markets of the two NFL teams playing in the game.

This is accomplished through a bidding process for each cable network game and includes preseason as well as regular season games. Any station in the local market can participate if it wishes.

In the case of the Thanksgiving Day Broncos-Chiefs game, KDVR, the local Fox station, won the rights to broadcast the NFL Network game ota. The rights are valid only for this one game. A station in Kansas City also has the rights to carry this game ota.

Another example is the Broncos-Ravens game of October 9th. The NFL allowed the local CBS station KCNC to air this ESPN game over the air. Similarly, a local station in Baltimore likely broadcast the game.

BTW, my Dish 811 receiver still can't decode KCNC's PSIP signal (receiver goes into a soft reboot when I try to select the Channel 35 that I manually added). Anybody got the name, phone or e-mail for a technical contact at KCNC?

Have you deleted all ota channels, rebooted and then rescaned? I was also having trouble with KCNC on my 811. This is what cured mine.

Have you deleted all ota channels, rebooted and then rescaned? I was also having trouble with KCNC on my 811. This is what cured mine.

Several times. I'm going to do it one more time tomorrow morning and if still no go, I'll be calling E* again. While I'll be in a less congenial mood with them, I expect to again get no real help from them.

This arrangement is only for local teams playing on the NFL Network or ESPN.

For hometown viewers who do not subscribe to cable or satellite service, the NFL permits any game that is presented exclusively on a cable network (ESPN, NFL Network) to be made available for ota broadcast to one station in each of the local markets of the two NFL teams playing in the game.
Is it safe to assume that there will be no blackouts of the NFL Network or D*'s HD broadcast of the NFL network, in Colorado?
....jc

CEB II,

I just checked my 811 again for KCNC. When I put in RF 35 in the add digital channel portion of the Menu, as always, where the remapped channel number is displayed, it shows channel number 35, not 4. However, on the left of the screen, where all of the locked channels are displayed, it clearly shows KCNC as channel 4. No channel 35 is listed.

When I got out of the Menu, I entered 4 and KCNC was tuned in fine. When I entered 35, the channel tuned in was 31-1, which was the closest remapped channel to 35, I presume.

Maybe there is something awry in the PSIP since my 811 won't show the remapped channel for KCNC in the Menu for adding stations. But my 811 must handle it OK since I clearly have KCNC listed as channel 4 in my channel list. I'm wondering if the software in your 811 needs an update that it hasn't received. My software is listed as version P382 if that helps.


TPW,

If I recollect correctly, the Broncos-Ravens game that was a Monday nighter on ESPN was not blacked out. I believe I watched it on ESPN to avoid the local commercials.

TPW,

If I recollect correctly, the Broncos-Ravens game that was a Monday nighter on ESPN was not blacked out. I believe I watched it on ESPN to avoid the local commercials.
Yea, I didn't even think about MNF, and a local station carrying it. I guess that's what happens when rights move from Network to Cable! :eek:

I keep remembering the preseason game that was only broadcast by KDVR, and the Springs was SOL.

Thanks,
....jc

That's interesting. Here's the response I got from KMGH regarding my inquiry into the matter:

Dear Viewer:

The ABC network will only feed one college football game to us, so we
don't have the option of showing one on SD and one on HD.

We appreciate your writing and asking. And thank you for watching.

That is a crock. He is right in that ABC controls what the station gets on their 8PSK SD sat receivers. I'd have to ask an engineer contact I have at an ABC affiliate how much local control a station has over the receivers (with Fox there is zero local control).

The HD receiver, OTOA, comes in two flavors. Some sites have 100% control over their HD receivers while ABC has zero. At other stations ABC controls what the HD receiver tunes to. But I do not know if the station can override it.

But, this I do know, the Wisconsin HD game was on the primary HD transponder. How do I know? I tuned it in only because the game originated from my hometown and I was curious to see how good the HD could be, as it was the first HD game from this location.

So, your local affiliate definately would have had no problem airing the HD game on the DTV channel, as you saw them do. My guess is that they are normally set up to take ABC HD net when they take ABC and in this case, the video they were provided from the sat receiver rack for analog was obviously different than the feed on the primary HD feed. BTW, there was only one ABC HD transponder going that afternoon, that I know of.

I think CBS is only able to transmit 2 HD games at a time. Sometimes when the early games run a little late there is a delay in switching to HD for the late game. It is not necessarily KCNCs' fault.

CBS has two HD transponders that they use on a daily basis. They now have access to a third. The CW network, which CBS teleport NY feeds, has two HD transponders that they use on Sunday. The West coast HD transponder isn't needed until well after football is over.

There may be other contractual reasons why it can't be used, but there are three available, which any CBS affiliate can tune since CBS/CW are on the same bird.

Hope that makes sense, this will occur every week with the second Sunday game until CBS and the affiliates add more transmitters and receivers.

CBS has plans to go 8PSK or 16APSK. No timeframe was given. My guess this is the last year they'll have this problem, at the earliest. This will give CBS more capacity for multiple feeds of HD video.

CBS has plans to go 8PSK or 16APSK. No timeframe was given. My guess this is the last year they'll have this problem, at the earliest. This will give CBS more capacity for multiple feeds of HD video.
I do remember reading somewhere that they had plans to do all NFL games in HD next year. I would expect that to be a part (or result) of that conversion.

The fact that LOST is really the only primetime major network show we record on the DVR made it that much more infuriating. :mad:

If you must see the end of Lost, let me know and I'll cut you a DVD-ROM of it. I think my D-VHS deck got it recorded OK. I can transfer it to the computer and make a DVD-ROM of the HD, or convert it to a normal DVD.

What was even more annoying was the ABC election coverage taking up half of the (SD) screen, with ABC news music blaring over the audio of the show. :mad:

Huh? The election was Tuesday, Lost was on Wednesday.

If anyone thinks that something funny is going on with the CBS HD feeds on a Sunday afternoon, just send me real e-mail (not private e-mail from within here as I'll never see it in time) and I'll look to see what is going on. Sunday afternoons are open for me, as I don't watch football and the capturing I have to do for a little bit Sunday afternoon uses a different receiver.

BTW, it might not be as easy for the local CBS affiliate to dial in either of the two main CBS HD transponders. I'll bet that the local Denver CBS affiliate's dish has a single receiver attached to it. While I'm sure that they can remotely control the receiver, since the dish and receiver are located at the analog tower, tuning the receiver from the east coast feed to the west coast feed (there isn't a hot HD backup for any of the HD feeds) isn't going to work with a single LNB input receiver. Why? The east feed is vertical and the west feed is horizontal, unlike ABC which has all of their affiliate HD feeds on vertical transponders. The stations would have to have a separate HD receiver on another LNB, or an HD receiver with multiple LNB inputs. I never asked Steve what their setup was when I was there a year ago.

Before anyone says that receivers can control polarity at a dish, you'll never find a TV station using consumer gear for network feeds. Those rotators do go bad and is the last thing you want to go wrong. Obviously LNBs can fail as well, but why double the potential for problems. Two LNBs will be placed on the feedhorn if both horizontal and vertical coverage is required.

If I would have read this thread earlier today, I would have looked just to see what CBS was doing for feeds today. If I remember, I'll look next week.

UPDATE: I just looked over my notes and noticed that CBS-Paramount has used a total of 5 HD transponders on IA6, three horizontal and two vertical. Keep in mind that two of the horizontal are for The CW, one of which is not available for CBS Sunday afternoons.

If anyone thinks that something funny is going on with the CBS HD feeds on a Sunday afternoon, just send me real e-mail (not private e-mail from within here as I'll never see it in time) and I'll look to see what is going on. Sunday afternoons are open for me, as I don't watch football and the capturing I have to do for a little bit Sunday afternoon uses a different receiver.



I checked the CBS feed a week ago at that time, and reported earlier in the thread what happened. Based upon reports here from people watching KCNC, it sounds like KCNC was a bit late at switching over since (as I recall) their local early game was not the HD Miami game which was on the transponder later used by the Bronco game. I suspect their 'guy' was simply asleep at the switch for a few extra minutes. I reported about when in the game CBS switched, but it sounded like KCNC didn't switch till 5 or 10 minutes later. I don't think it is a usual occurance, although I admit I rarely watch the local OTA for Bronoco games as I have other sources, and since I have season tickets, am usually at the game for many of them. HD or SD, the Broncos looked pretty pathetic yesterday.

I think this whole topic of the KCNC switchover is pretty much making a "mountain out of a molehill". People here still got to see about 90% of the game in HD regardless of what KCNC did, and we know the problem should go away next year. We also know KCNC will never admit it if they screw up. Given the schedule (i.e. a couple of games may not be in HD (Ariz.), and others will likely be national games or on FOX (SD, KC, Seattle, SF, etc.), this switch is likely to be an issue at best maybe one or two more times this year at most. I'm not sure why people get so upset about a few minutes of the game in SD since they are able to watch the game, just not in HD for a couple of minutes.

I checked the CBS feed a week ago at that time, and reported earlier in the thread what happened.

I got the impression that you checked based upon tuning in different CBS affiliates that you can receive. If I am incorrect and you have a C-Band dish in your yard, then nevermind :)

Huh? The election was Tuesday, Lost was on Wednesday.But several contests were not decided until Wednesday (I believe the overlay was for the Ohio and/or Virginia senate races). Along with the SD flub, this must have been a local issue.

But several contests were not decided until Wednesday (I believe the overlay was for the Ohio and/or Virginia senate races). Along with the SD flub, this must have been a local issue.

Ya, the SD flub had to be local. For ABC to start rolling The Nine early would have meant that a drastic screwup in computer programming would have had to have taken place. Plus, it would have been corrected relatively quickly.

As for the crawl at the bottom, I have no idea if that was an ABC net thing or local, as the HD of Lost did not have it. I don't watch ABC via SD anymore. I only watch the local news in analog as it is easier and no one locally is doing HD news.

I'd lay odds that the crawl was a Denver thing.

I got the impression that you checked based upon tuning in different CBS affiliates that you can receive. If I am incorrect and you have a C-Band dish in your yard, then nevermind :)
12 foot H to H C-Band C/Ku Dish with HDDVB (Both an Integra 912 and Unity Motion receivers)
:)

Still use it for all of my HD movie channels as well with the Mot 4DTV.

I also have D* with NFLST which also tracks the HD switchovers with their individual 'game' channels. Those with NFLST can also see the switch between games on the game 'channel'. The HD local games are not blacked out on the national feed and (given the before and after network screen logos which are identical to the affiliate feed logos), D* also gets their NFLST feed directly from IA6. For the late HD games, they have the channel for each game set up, but at about 2 PM the channel will come on the air (for a 2:15 game) with the HD from from the previous HD game on that transponder, so the D* channel also shows the CBS IA6 affiliate switch. I most often watch D* since I switch back and forth between a lot of games (FOX & CBS) which are just winding up at about that time.

12 foot H to H C-Band C/Ku Dish with HDDVB (Both an Integra 912 and Unity Motion receivers)

All right! A fellow BUDhead. I use a PeeCee with the Twinhan 1030A and TSReader.

I most often watch D* since I switch back and forth between a lot of games (FOX & CBS) which are just winding up at about that time.

Wouldn't you rather watch the CBS net feed, since the bitrate is so much higher than what D* supplies?

I do not know what kind of monitor you have, but is it possible to PIP the two receivers, i.e., watch one game from D* in the main view and the output from the C-band receiver in PIP and if something gets interesting in the PIP to do a quick swap with the remote?

So sorry to beat a dead horse.

But, I think I am getting closer to figuring out why I can't get 7.1 Antennaweb.org reports that there is no 7.1 digital in our area!

Is that true?

Is there anyone using a Samsung SIR-T451 and getting ABC from Denver?

So sorry to beat a dead horse.

But, I think I am getting closer to figuring out why I can't get 7.1 Antennaweb.org reports that there is no 7.1 digital in our area!

Is that true?

Is there anyone using a Samsung SIR-T451 and getting ABC from Denver?

I am, but I'm in Centennial.

All right! A fellow BUDhead. I use a PeeCee with the Twinhan 1030A and TSReader.

Wouldn't you rather watch the CBS net feed, since the bitrate is so much higher than what D* supplies?

I do not know what kind of monitor you have, but is it possible to PIP the two receivers, i.e., watch one game from D* in the main view and the output from the C-band receiver in PIP and if something gets interesting in the PIP to do a quick swap with the remote?

My main HT monitor is a Mits 65 in. RPTV that I bought back in Jan. 2000. Unfortunately back in those days, monitors only had a single HD input. I had to wire in an external manual switch box which switches between the Integra, D*, 4DTV and Star Choice HD receivers. I am a long time football fan and most often will track several games at the same time, both on CBS and FOX. So unless there is a single game on CBS and I don't plan to switch receivers, it is far easier for me to switch between games using the NFLST on D* using the remote. The problem is that I have to leave the couch and go to the equipment rack to switch channels which is annoying to say the least if I am just checking a game during the commercials on another game.

I can do PIP, but only if I switch both receivers to 480i output. I do that on some occasions (college football) if I am watching a C-Band backhaul game which is not available on D* or local OTA. For NFL games, generally I prefer a single game in HD unless two games are both in the last minute or two and critical to the Broncos. YMMV.

My apologies to the thread for going OT on the subject of C-Band. I will try to keep it out unless it is directly related to KCNC since this is an OTA thread.

My apologies to the thread for going OT on the subject of C-Band. I will try to keep it out unless it is directly related to KCNC since this is an OTA thread.
No, good info, regarding football that is! :p I'm thinking that my new house will have a FB viewing room with 3 screens. 1 big & 2 smaller. That way 3 games at once(forget PIP).

Of course, to afford that, I'll have to skip a few extras, like the kitchen! :eek:
....jc

Of course, to afford that, I'll have to skip a few extras, like the kitchen! :eek:

Nah! For you die-hard football fans, you just eat out M-Sa and eat in Sunday. Since it is only football, the eat-in food is snacks, beer and grilled brats. Who needs a kitchen for that :)

So sorry to beat a dead horse.

But, I think I am getting closer to figuring out why I can't get 7.1 Antennaweb.org reports that there is no 7.1 digital in our area!

Is that true?

Is there anyone using a Samsung SIR-T451 and getting ABC from Denver?I'm not sure what algorithm antennaweb uses to estimate reception. I can get all of the Denver DTV stations from my house except KRMT (who cares), but many of them don't show up on the antennaweb estimate.

For instance, it shows me getting KRMA-DT from Republic but not KUSA-DT, KCNC-DT, or KMGH-DT. Go figure.

Most locations within the City of Boulder itself are screwed because their view towards Denver is blocked by Davidson Mesa. But in many other parts of Boulder County a good outdoor antenna will bring them all in.

So sorry to beat a dead horse.

But, I think I am getting closer to figuring out why I can't get 7.1 Antennaweb.org reports that there is no 7.1 digital in our area!

Is that true?

Is there anyone using a Samsung SIR-T451 and getting ABC from Denver?


I live a few blocks from Oxothuk and report pretty much the same. I have used a half dozen OTA receivers over the years. Several D* receivers including a Zenith 520, a H20 and now I have the HR20 (OTA is not activated on that yet). I have also used the OTA receivers (as I do now) in several of my C-Band receivers, with pretty much the same results in each case.

I put up a Radio Shack UHF only antenna strapped to a pole on my back deck (since it was only going to be temporary...hah....hah). The antenna is outside about the height of my first floor, but well below the roof on the second floor. It faces downtown (away from my house) so my house does not block it, but it essentially points into the trees and fence of the house next door. Davidson Mesa is NOT in the way from here. I get all of the stations from the RB, and without turning it I also easily get the Lookout stations, but not a sniff of anything from Squaw. Be sure to avoid splitters and junctions on the way to your receiver. If you are not blocked by Davidson Mesa you should have a pretty good chance of getting things. Good luck.

Thanks, guys. It is possible that my antenna is UHF only. I get all the UHF stations that Antennaweb reports, but not the VHF ones. Perhaps a VHF antenna and a signal combiner?

Off topic: does anyone in the North Denver/Boulder/Longmont area have an Oppo 971H upscaling DVD player?

I need to clone the remote from one. Can't seem to buy just the remote separately.

Beer. wine and/or pizza if i can program my HomeTheaterMaster remote off of yours, if you have one.

Mail to bouldergeek at gmail dot com to take this offline. Thanks.

I put up a Radio Shack UHF only antenna strapped to a pole on my back deck (since it was only going to be temporary...hah....hah).

Was this the one posted (picture) a long while back with bent elements and a bungy cord wrapped around the deck railing? Would love to see that pic again!

Was this the one posted (picture) a long while back with bent elements and a bungy cord wrapped around the deck railing? Would love to see that pic again!
No, I have never taken or posted a picture of my OTA setup. The Radio Shack antenna I hae uses a series of straight elements with a 'corner refelctor' in the back of the array.

I think someone here is using Linux and an HDTV card to make a PVR. I'm stuck. I could ask in the more general forums, but the part I'm stuck on is scanning for tuning frequencies, and I sort of think that's location-specific.

Am I right in thinking someone here has done this?

Thanks,
Sarah

I think someone here is using Linux and an HDTV card to make a PVR. I'm stuck. I could ask in the more general forums, but the part I'm stuck on is scanning for tuning frequencies, and I sort of think that's location-specific.

I have both a DVB-S card and an OTA ATSC card in an XP box. Don't know of any Linux software to talk to either of these. I know that there is work being done on DVB-T cards, but don't know about OTA ATSC cards like the MyHD 130.

People have to reverse engineer the drivers for these cards, as none of the manufacturers, that I know of, have released Linux drivers.

That said, I don't understand your confusion about scanning and tuning frequencies. Please restate.

The better place to ask is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

Find the card you have and ask there. Someone should know what you are looking for with regards to your card.

UPDATE: I just looked and found the following HTPC Linux area: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Never mind, I figured it out. I needed to scan for channels (much like a set-top box), but my card wasn't yet configured properly. Fixed the config, scanned, all is good.

Linux actually supports quite a lot of OTA ATSC cards--8 or so, I think--and some of those have direct firmware support from the manufacturer--the pcHDTV cards come to mind, they are marketed for Linux explicitly.

-Sarah

I have both a DVB-S card and an OTA ATSC card in an XP box. Don't know of any Linux software to talk to either of these. I know that there is work being done on DVB-T cards, but don't know about OTA ATSC cards like the MyHD 130.

People have to reverse engineer the drivers for these cards, as none of the manufacturers, that I know of, have released Linux drivers.

That said, I don't understand your confusion about scanning and tuning frequencies. Please restate.

The better place to ask is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

Find the card you have and ask there. Someone should know what you are looking for with regards to your card.

UPDATE: I just looked and found the following HTPC Linux area: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=76

Linux actually supports quite a lot of OTA ATSC cards--8 or so, I think--and some of those have direct firmware support from the manufacturer--the pcHDTV cards come to mind, they are marketed for Linux explicitly.

Thanks for the update.

Am I right in thinking someone here has done this?Yes, I have Linux MythTV setup which does this. Send me a PM with your questions.

I tried and tried to get teh PcHDTV card to work under KnoppMyth and under SuSE10. Couldn't get it running.

But, the Hauppauge 150 PCI card worked perfectly for SD.

Some day I'll try again with Myth. I'm a big linux proponent, but not a software developer. If it won't compile with all of the prereqs met, I'm SOL.

I'd be interested to see status on local area HD Myth boxen.

No, I have never taken or posted a picture of my OTA setup. The Radio Shack antenna I hae uses a series of straight elements with a 'corner refelctor' in the back of the array.
I dare ya to mess with my OTA setup! Yeah, just try it and see what happens! :eek:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ceht/photos/max_n_antenna.JPG

Rabbit ears are quite common, but dog ears..........

Rabbit ears are quite common, but dog ears..........

I'm wondering where the antenna cable is placed :D

If you get a full-sized one, will it get more channels?

I dare ya to mess with my OTA setup! Yeah, just try it and see what happens! :eek:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ceht/photos/max_n_antenna.JPG

That looks like the one of the puppies you were walking before the infamous Kandace Kreuger incident tour over there at HDNet. Too bad KK is off the market.

Don

For those of you who were wondering what the heck happened to the Mt. Morrison tower, here's the latest...

On November 9, 2006, The Court of Appeals refused the motion for rehearing filed by Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek Development Company. The Jefferson County Court of Appeals confirmed their reversal of the JeffCo Commissioner's 2003 approval of a boadcast TV/FM tower site on Mt. Morrison. The Court of Appeals cited three big mistakes made by the Board of County commissioners in approving the tower site on Mt. Morrison.

The Court of Appeals has “remanded” the case back to Judge Munsinger to send it back to the County Commissioners to do it correctly this time. Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek have indicated they intend to ask the Colorado Supreme Court to review the case.

For those of you who were wondering what the heck happened to the Mt. Morrison tower, here's the latest...

On November 9, 2006, The Court of Appeals refused the motion for rehearing filed by Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek Development Company. The Jefferson County Court of Appeals confirmed their reversal of the JeffCo Commissioner's 2003 approval of a boadcast TV/FM tower site on Mt. Morrison. The Court of Appeals cited three big mistakes made by the Board of County commissioners in approving the tower site on Mt. Morrison.

The Court of Appeals has “remanded” the case back to Judge Munsinger to send it back to the County Commissioners to do it correctly this time. Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek have indicated they intend to ask the Colorado Supreme Court to review the case.

Wow

For those of you who were wondering what the heck happened to the Mt. Morrison tower, here's the latest...

On November 9, 2006, The Court of Appeals refused the motion for rehearing filed by Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek Development Company. The Jefferson County Court of Appeals confirmed their reversal of the JeffCo Commissioner's 2003 approval of a boadcast TV/FM tower site on Mt. Morrison. The Court of Appeals cited three big mistakes made by the Board of County commissioners in approving the tower site on Mt. Morrison.

The Court of Appeals has “remanded” the case back to Judge Munsinger to send it back to the County Commissioners to do it correctly this time. Jefferson County, the broadcasters and Bear Creek have indicated they intend to ask the Colorado Supreme Court to review the case.


Movement could be happening on Mt. Morrison despite this. KRMA's GM James Morgese recently announced to his staff that they have found a way to move their temporary DTV transmitter from Republic to Mt. Morrison until the legal issues are worked out. (Equipment is apparently ordered with move scheduled around first of the year.) This is good news for a lot of us as it should improve reception in most areas.

By the way, it may not be totally correct to refer to the Mt. Morrison transmitter as a "tower." My understanding is the design approved by the Jeffco Commission is for a first-of-its-kind "horizontal transmitter." It would be on the side of the mountain and even have a camouflage netting over it to make it invisible from below. KRMA and the public radio stations did everything they could to appease residents. Apparently no one voiced any concerns at the public hearings. It's really a shame the sCARE group knocked it off track.

For those of you who were wondering what the heck happened to the Mt. Morrison tower, here's the latest...

On November 9, 2006, The Court of Appeals refused the motion for rehearing filed by Jefferson County...

Friends, you can kiss the Supertower good-bye for now. In two years, two Jeffco commissioner slots are open. If pro-tower factions win both, you can do something about this. If not, they better start looking out DIA way for some land and aerial rights for their antennas.

What a shame.

I am concerned about HD overall. NBC's football coverage looked like crap last night, as it has all season. There were macro pixels galore for every movement and the grass blades were not distinct as they are on CBS (when they offer HD games). It was that way no matter what I did with the antenna. Speaking of CBS, I notice that fewer games are offered in HD each week. Maybe this technology is dying before our eyes? I hope not. But I think it's proving too much for the stations to bear financially and technically.

Movement could be happening on Mt. Morrison despite this. KRMA's GM James Morgese recently announced to his staff that they have found a way to move their temporary DTV transmitter from Republic to Mt. Morrison until the legal issues are worked out. (Equipment is apparently ordered with move scheduled around first of the year.) This is good news for a lot of us as it should improve reception in most areas.
...........

As far as I can tell, this sounds to me like the end of any chance of a full power tower on Mt. Morrison (unless a new set of commissioners are elected who will favor the towers).

Why would you assume, though, that a low power transmitter on Mt. Morrison (if there were any legal way to do that as you suggest) would improve the reception for anyone except the people in Golden. If it is the same low power level that is on the RB, I would think that would eliminate nearly all of Boulder as well as many up and down the front range. I don't think Mt. Morrison coverage is that great to begin with, and if you are not full power you would not be seen by many more TV's. In addition, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY) nearly all of us on the fringe of the reception limits have our antennas skillfully and specifically pointed to downtown and the RB. Moving a low power signal to Mr. Morrison would mean most of us would have to provide a method to rotate our antenna to see Mt. Morrison and/or the RB, or simply kiss KRMA goodbye (including our donation dollars).

By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to all of my fellow forum members too!
(FWIW, that is NOT intended as a sarcastic comment relating to the rest of the posts this morning, but is intended as a serious wish).

Speaking of CBS, I notice that fewer games are offered in HD each week. Maybe this technology is dying before our eyes? I hope not. But I think it's proving too much for the stations to bear financially and technically.

Hmm I think CBS has stayed pretty constant with their HD games at 3 per week. And they say next year it will be 4, and in 08 all their games will be HD. This week only 1 of the 2 games CBS showed in Denver was HD but other people in the country got to see 2 HD games....
http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/11-CBS-E.gif

Does anyone know if FOX will carry the game in HD. I know its in HD on NFL Network, but I haven't been able to confirm that the local broadcast will be?

It will be on Fox 31-1 in the Denver area and I would assume that it would also be available on the Ft. Collins station (22-1 KFCT-DT) with the repeater pass through that they use. I think Colorado Springs will not get the game OTA on their FOX station.

Friends, you can kiss the Supertower good-bye for now. In two years, two Jeffco commissioner slots are open. If pro-tower factions win both, you can do something about this. If not, they better start looking out DIA way for some land and aerial rights for their antennas.

What a shame.

I am concerned about HD overall. NBC's football coverage looked like crap last night, as it has all season. There were macro pixels galore for every movement and the grass blades were not distinct as they are on CBS (when they offer HD games). It was that way no matter what I did with the antenna. Speaking of CBS, I notice that fewer games are offered in HD each week. Maybe this technology is dying before our eyes? I hope not. But I think it's proving too much for the stations to bear financially and technically.


I totally agree. NBC's picture is pathetic. It amazes me that people say it looks fine and they have no problem with it. The pixelation is horrid. Maybe I could understand if you hadn't seen Fox's HD, CBS's HD or even ABC's HD, but even still, the quality is so poor, I don't know how it doesn't bother everyone. It's a cruel joke that I waited for MNF in HD for so long. I thought I had it made when NBC got the SNF game becasue I could actually receice KUSA-DT and not KMGH-DT, now 9-1's picture quality is so terrible.


As far as I can tell, this sounds to me like the end of any chance of a full power tower on Mt. Morrison (unless a new set of commissioners are elected who will favor the towers).

Why would you assume, though, that a low power transmitter on Mt. Morrison (if there were any legal way to do that as you suggest) would improve the reception for anyone except the people in Golden. If it is the same low power level that is on the RB, I would think that would eliminate nearly all of Boulder as well as many up and down the front range. I don't think Mt. Morrison coverage is that great to begin with, and if you are not full power you would not be seen by many more TV's. In addition, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY) nearly all of us on the fringe of the reception limits have our antennas skillfully and specifically pointed to downtown and the RB. Moving a low power signal to Mr. Morrison would mean most of us would have to provide a method to rotate our antenna to see Mt. Morrison and/or the RB, or simply kiss KRMA goodbye (including our donation dollars).

By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to all of my fellow forum members too!
(FWIW, that is NOT intended as a sarcastic comment relating to the rest of the posts this morning, but is intended as a serious wish).

Yep, I've been dreading this move all along. I'm going to have to have two antennas to get 6-1, if I can get it at all. KRMA is taking the channel with the best programming and picture quality and driving it into the ground.

KRMA's as lost to me as KBDI is, as I won't be getting a signal from Mt. Morrison here in Louisville without some major landscape changes between here and there.

That's fine though, given I'm no fan of PBS "Create" anyway.

As far as JeffCo and Lookout goes, it's what we all figured would happen; there will be no new tower, but when the cutover happens all the stations will flash cut to digital transmitters on Lookout, and sCARE will be stuck with multiple towers instead of one. Tough cookies for them.

KRMA's as lost to me as KBDI is, as I won't be getting a signal from Mt. Morrison here in Louisville without some major landscape changes between here and there.

That's fine though, given I'm no fan of PBS "Create" anyway.

As far as JeffCo and Lookout goes, it's what we all figured would happen; there will be no new tower, but when the cutover happens all the stations will flash cut to digital transmitters on Lookout, and sCARE will be stuck with multiple towers instead of one. Tough cookies for them.

I currently get KRMA from Republic. Who can we complain to if they take away the signal by moving it to Morrison? It doesn't seem like they should be allowed to change their footprint and take away the signal from people in the metro area...

The NBC HD is good for me (1080i into 42" LCD).

The CBS is good, too (thought I only watch "The Unit" in HD).

Does anyone in the area use a Samsung SIR-T451 and get ABC in HD?

I think there is no question about the superiority of the CBS HD NFL PQ over the NBC signal. I get them both OTA, and the difference between the afternoon games and the evening game is, well, night and day.

Couldn't resist. Though my comment stands.

Now that D* has announced they will carry the Thursday NFL Bronco game in HD (from the NFL network)- I wonder if it will be blocked (blacked out) for us because Fox is carrying the game (my D* guide does not show that game as being HD either on Fox)

Now that D* has announced they will carry the Thursday NFL Bronco game in HD (from the NFL network)...

What channel would this be on, one of the MPEG4 channels?

Bouldergeek - stupid question here, but no one in the past 4 pages asked it, so I will...

For KMGH, you are searching for it on channel 17, right? Not channel 7...

And Happy Thanksgiving from me as well!

What channel would this be on, one of the MPEG4 channels?
It is either 93 or 95. And no it is not a MPEG4 channel.

The Thursday Broncos game will be broadcast on the local FOX 31 HD channel from D* if you have MPEG-4 equipment.
If you have MPEG-2 equipment, you may see the game on channel 89 as that is the west coast feed that is available to the Denver market due to the fact that our local FOX station is owned and operated by FOX network.
The game will also be broadcast OTA on channel 31-1.
I believe that the game should also be available OTA on channel 22-1 KFTC-DT in Ft. Collins as they recieve a direct feed fom the Denver station.
I do not believe that the game will show up on 93 or 95 on the NFL network in the Denver area because FOX owns the local rights.

Friends, you can kiss the Supertower good-bye for now. In two years, two Jeffco commissioner slots are open. If pro-tower factions win both, you can do something about this. If not, they better start looking out DIA way for some land and aerial rights for their antennas.

They have a perfectly good antenna on Lookout Mtn that as of March 2009 will be broadcasting ATSC full strength.

I guess the station that chose the new frequency should be looking at the DIA area though.

On further thought, the game will not be on channel 89 from D* because it won't be broadcast on FOX in L.A.

My head hurts.

Does anyone in the area use a Samsung SIR-T451 and get ABC in HD?

I use an SIR-T451 and get OTA ABC in HD, when they transmit it.

Tim

I just got email confirmation that local FOX 31 will be showing Bronco game in HD on Thursday! Woohoo!! :D

I use an SIR-T451 and get OTA ABC in HD, when they transmit it.

Tim

Thanks for that confirmation, Tim.

I was hoping that it was just the limitation of the 451 or that 7 is not in digital HD.

Can't forthelife of me figure out why I get all of the RP stations except 7.

When I saw Antennaweb state that 7 is VHF analog, I thought, "Ah ha, that's it. There is no 7.1!"

Guess I was wrong.

I am pretty positive that the broncos game will not be blacked out on whatever channel D* shows it nor will it be blacked out on Comcast. Thursday nights game will be like Sunday night games are now, you will be able to see it on both KDVR and NFLN. Remember that NFLN owns the rights to the game, all KDVR has is the right out of all the Denver stations to show the game.

I just got email confirmation that local FOX 31 will be showing Bronco game in HD on Thursday! Woohoo!! :DThat would be great if it is true, as my OTA HD PQ is better than anything via satellite on D*, but I am concerned that the guide information for 31-1 on Thursday night still does NOT list it as HD.

Before you complain to KRMA... I think they have a plan to take care of you. I hear they just acquired KMAS in Steamboat with plans to eventually relocate it to Fort Collins as a second transmitter serving the north metro. Stay tuned.

FORT COLLINS??? I'm in Brighton, I doubt that would help much.

I think there is no question about the superiority of the CBS HD NFL PQ over the NBC signal. I get them both OTA, and the difference between the afternoon games and the evening game is, well, night and day.

Couldn't resist. Though my comment stands.

I think there is a lot of question about that! CBS HD PQ continues to be soft with muted color while the NBC games rival Fox for clarity and color saturation. Not to mention that CBS hasn't figured out how to manage DD 5.1 for the NFL telecasts.

Maybe it was because the game was under the lights, but Sunday night's game was the sharpest and most color defined from Invesco that my wife and I have seen this year. The CBS broadcasts always look like HD-Lite. Odd because the CBS NCAA football games seem to be on PQ par with all the other HD broadcasts.

Originally posted by Iwanthd:
If you have MPEG-2 equipment, you may see the game on channel 89 as that is the west coast feed that is available to the Denver market due to the fact that our local FOX station is owned and operated by FOX network.

The only OTA broadcasts of games on the NFL Network that they allow are in the cities of the two teams playing. It will not be on the West Coast Fox feed. In fact, different games are on different channels in the same city - KC's OTA broadcast of the Turkey Day game and a game later in the year are on two different KC stations.

Thanks for clearing up my mess mike.

I agree with your assesment and attempted to say that 2 posts after my original misstatement.

I think there is a lot of question about that! CBS HD PQ continues to be soft with muted color while the NBC games rival Fox for clarity and color saturation. Not to mention that CBS hasn't figured out how to manage DD 5.1 for the NFL telecasts.

Maybe it was because the game was under the lights, but Sunday night's game was the sharpest and most color defined from Invesco that my wife and I have seen this year. The CBS broadcasts always look like HD-Lite. Odd because the CBS NCAA football games seem to be on PQ par with all the other HD broadcasts.

Personally, I strongly disagree. I think CBS PQ is definitely superior to NBC PQ. When I watch NBC in HD (a little bit of sports, but mostly primetime programming), the NBC signal is always very blocky during periods of motion. It's quite annoying, in my opinion, and very distracting on my 65" TV.

Personally, I strongly disagree. I think CBS PQ is definitely superior to NBC PQ. When I watch NBC in HD (a little bit of sports, but mostly primetime programming), the NBC signal is always very blocky during periods of motion. It's quite annoying, in my opinion, and very distracting on my 65" TV.

I stand by my original post on this subject. On my plasma, the pq Sunday night's game was not as good as Sunday afternoon's. Does not mean, however, that someone else could see it differently.

I think there is a lot of question about that! CBS HD PQ continues to be soft with muted color while the NBC games rival Fox for clarity and color saturation. Not to mention that CBS hasn't figured out how to manage DD 5.1 for the NFL telecasts.

Are you sure that the local affiliate isn't causing the problem? Having been through the station on a personal tour, I don't think that they would be doing anything intentionally to cause what you are reporting. The 35+ Mbps HD feed they get from CBS does have to be put out OTA at half that bit rate (at best).

I few weeks a go I was asked to capture some football in the high bitrates supplied via the networks to the affiliates (ABC and CBS are available to me, Fox is the same via satellite as it is OTA) for some project. I don't watch football, but was impressed with the quality of the CBS 1080i HD that I saw. It had none was what you described.

Oh, I can't comment about the audio, as DD5.1 is sent via Dolby-E only and I don't have DD5.1 where this equipment is located anyway.

Mr. Gakon, would you run a plot from 16531 E Brown Drive, Aurora, 80112, to the infamous republic plaza, please?

Thanks!

Tim

Will tonight's Broncos game on Fox be in HD?

(I've never tried to watch a football game in HD before. Should be interesting. I'm more of a Hockey fan.)

Thanks,
Glen

Will tonight's Broncos game on Fox be in HD?


Looks like it is. 8th and Fox using a set of Rabbit Ears....

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Go Broncos!

So how was the Fox HD?? I was at a friends house for Thanksgiving and you dont realize how spoiled you get until you try to watch a game on a 25" SD CRT...

As of at least 12:30 am, KUSA DT , TV 20 DT , & KMGH DT are out gone nada! KCNC DT is fine on both of my OTA rec's.


Hummm? There all back up now as of 12:50. Must have been some sort of power glitch.

So how was the Fox HD?? I was at a friends house for Thanksgiving and you dont realize how spoiled you get until you try to watch a game on a 25" SD CRT...

I watched a little of it on Fox (Directv local HD)- but mostly on the D* NFL HD channel (95)

Sound was not as good on Fox but I did not really notice much difference on picture.

I watched the first half on Ch 95 but had to switch to the video on 31-1 for the second half.

This was because I like to listen to the KOA radio broadcast and I sync the radio audio with the TV video by using a DelayPlay (http://delayplay.com/index.htm).

It normally requires about a 5-7 second delay in the radio to sync with the TV video, and in the first half, that was the case with Ch 95. When the second half started, however, the video on Ch 95 was more than 30 seconds behind the audio on KOA (well beyond the maximum delay of the DelayPlay) so I had to switch to 31-1 for the video.

All of that said, however, the PQ seemed to be the same on both.

Someone call sCARE; I referenced this effort in the UK a while back, and the effort has become larger:

Health fears lead schools to dismantle wireless networks (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,591-2461748,00.html)

Parents and teachers are forcing some schools to dismantle wireless computer networks amid fears that they could damage children’s health.
More schools are putting transmitters in classrooms to give pupils wireless access from laptops to the school computer network and the internet.

But many parents and some scientists fear that low levels of microwave radiation emitted by the transmitters could be harmful, causing loss of concentration, headaches, fatigue, memory and behavioural problems and possibly cancer in the long term. Scientific evidence is inconclusive, but some researchers think that children are vulnerable because of their thinner skulls and developing nervous systems.

At the Prebendal School, a prestigious preparatory in Chichester, West Sussex, a group of parents lobbied the headteacher, Tim Cannell, to remove the wireless network last month. Mr Cannell told The Times: “We listened to the parents’ views and they were obviously very concerned. We also did a lot of research. The authorities say it’s safe, but there have been no long-term studies to prove this.

“We had been having problems with the reliability of it anyway, so we decided to exchange it for a conventional cabled system.”

Vivienne Baron, who is bringing up Sebastian, her ten-year-old grandson, said: “I did not want Sebastian exposed to a wireless computer network at school. No real evidence has been produced to prove that this new technology is safe in the long term. Until it is, I think we should take a precautionary approach and use cabled systems.”

At Ysgol Pantycelyn, a comprehensive in Carmarthenshire, parents aired their concerns to the governors, who agreed to switch off its wireless network. Hywel Pugh, the head teacher, told The Times: “The county council and central government told us that wireless networks are perfectly safe, but as there were concerns we listened to them and decided that the concerns of the parents were of greater importance than our need to have a wireless network.”

Judith Davies, who has a daughter at the school, said: “Many people campaign against mobile phone masts near schools, but there is a great deal of ignorance about wireless computer networks. Yet they are like having a phone mast in the classroom and the transmitters are placed very close to the children.”

Stowe School, the Buckinghamshire public school, also removed part of its wireless network after a teacher became ill. Michael Bevington, a classics teacher for 28 years at the school, said that he had such a violent reaction to the network that he was too ill to teach.

“I felt a steadily widening range of unpleasant effects whenever I was in the classroom,” he said. “First came a thick headache, then pains throughout the body, sudden flushes, pressure behind the eyes, sudden skin pains and burning sensations, along with bouts of nausea. Over the weekend, away from the classroom, I felt completely normal.”

Anthony Wallersteiner, the head teacher of Stowe School, said that he was planning to put cabled networks in all new classrooms and boarding houses.

Professor Sir William Stewart, chairman of the Health Protection Agency, said that evidence of potentially harmful effects of microwave radiation had become more persuasive over the past five years. His report said that while there was a lack of hard information of damage to health, the approach should be precautionary.

A DfES spokesman said: “It’s up to individual schools to decide on this.”
With a drive on to provide WiFi throughout municipalities across the country, it should be interesting to see how long it takes sCARE to speak out against that effort as well.

(Anyone want to find out how many sCARE members have WAPs in their homes?)

Hope they eliminate windows in their schools, too. Lots of radiation comes in through those things, not to mention the "loss of concentration" caused by looking out them.

Someone call sCARE; I referenced this effort in the UK a while back, and the effort has become larger:

Health fears lead schools to dismantle wireless networks (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,591-2461748,00.html)

Oh my goodness. I have a friend who lives in Chichester. I was recently there (August) on vacation. I'll have to ask him what he knows about this.

“I felt a steadily widening range of unpleasant effects whenever I was in the classroom,” he said. “First came a thick headache, then pains throughout the body, sudden flushes, pressure behind the eyes, sudden skin pains and burning sensations, along with bouts of nausea. Over the weekend, away from the classroom, I felt completely normal.”I readily admit that's the way I felt about high school, too. :D

Someone call sCARE; I referenced this effort in the UK a while back, and the effort has become larger:

Health fears lead schools to dismantle wireless networks (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,591-2461748,00.html)


With a drive on to provide WiFi throughout municipalities across the country, it should be interesting to see how long it takes sCARE to speak out against that effort as well.

(Anyone want to find out how many sCARE members have WAPs in their homes?)

Well, there is always a backlash against technology, some deserved and some not.

How many public schools spent billions on classroom Internet access just to block sites because of "objectionable" material? For example, if you are a child whose mother or grandmother has/had breast cancer, you can't access information about the disease because it has the word "breast" in it.

I have a new SDA mobile phone. I can access WiFi anywhere with it. When I first got it, I checked to see how many neighbors had an open WiFi connection I could "borrow". It was a shock to find six routers available (it turns out these signals are pretty strong). In the UK, a great deal of inner city housing is like our townhomes. These frightened parents would be shocked to see far more than six microwave connections cooking at the same time in the surrounding flats. They would also be shocked at how many public places, from coffee houses (think Starbucks) and public buildings to shopping malls (ex. The Mills) have open, public access WiFis going at the same time. And we haven't even talked about mobile phones and the thousands of cell transmitters dotting America's thoroughfares. I have T-Mobile, and almost everywhere in metro Denver I've been, I get FULL signal strength. There's only one reason for that.

If these microwaves are as dangerous as alleged, and after all they can cook food from the inside out, stimulating the movement of water molecules to create frictional heat, let's just say we're already "cooked" as a culture.

Just to show how you cannot trust news articles, here's a ridiculous story. It's all in the spin. I have a client that makes grooming products (shavers etc) Some 'research' company came out with findings that when they interviewed thousands of men who had cancer, they asked them do you use a blade or an electric shaver? Well, they reported that 70% of them used an electric shaver, thus, their cancer had to be related to that. What a crock. But, it made the press and my client had to scramble to disprove this stupid story.

Same with Lookout mt.

All of that said, however, the PQ seemed to be the same on both.

I switched back and forth from the NFL Network and Fox. Using the VIP622 the Fox PQ was much better on the Sammy 42" Although the pre game show on Fox was a disaster.as well as the game.

Just to show how you cannot trust news articles, here's a ridiculous story. It's all in the spin. I have a client that makes grooming products (shavers etc) Some 'research' company came out with findings that when they interviewed thousands of men who had cancer, they asked them do you use a blade or an electric shaver? Well, they reported that 70% of them used an electric shaver, thus, their cancer had to be related to that. What a crock. But, it made the press and my client had to scramble to disprove this stupid story.

Same with Lookout mt.

What gets me is, not ten miles upwind from Golden, was Rocky Flats. The plant was used to reprocess used nuclear materials from old atomic bombs to make triggers for new bombs. The place was so mismanaged and so polluted by the DOE and its surrogates that the FBI raided and closed it down. People are STILL dying of radiation exposure. Their families are STILL being compensated for their losses.

Heck, they found Strontium in the groundwater there, a mineral only created in atomic reactions. Because there was no reactor present, this was a very real concern. It meant the Strontium was deposited there in one of two ways: 1) The trade winds blew it there after above-ground nuclear tests, or 2) there were spontaneous atomic reactions (criticalities) at the plant.

And we haven't even talked about the unshielded radioactive sludge found in the ductwork in Building 771. On your average breezy Front Range night, with the wind blowing down the Boulder Canyon into Northwestern Jefferson County...

Then there was all the radioactivity and other crap at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal deposited on us during your average Front Range upslope weather "event". Before Chernobyl, the Arsenal was considered the most polluted spot on earth. Talk about your "nuclear winter".

People have really short memories. And it seems these same people, those who kept their traps shut because they never met a defense program they didn't like, now have the NERVE to complain about ONE TV tower on Lookout Mountain!

Where the heck where these people 20 years ago!

The scientific method and, heck, logic say that the burden of proof is on those making an allegation. Great. Before engaging in restraint of trade and embroiling the county in a potential lawsuit that will cost us all millions to defend against, the anti-tower forces need to prove scientifically, beyond ambiguity, that these cancers are the direct result of TV transmissions. They have to factor out the influence of RF and RMA. If sCARE turns out to be correct, the new tower should not go in. Nobody here wishes cancer on anybody. If, however, the study shows most or all of the cancers are due to other factors, that the people who work at Buffalo Bill's grave site have cancer blisters throughout their bodies from standing within a few hundred feet of the transmitter antennas, they really should butt out. (Does anybody know the cancer rates of those working at BB's grave site?)

I think we all know what caused what.

If sCARE turns out to be correct, the new tower should not go in.If sCARE is correct, we should shutdown the TV, Radio, and cellular phone industries because hundreds of thousands of Americans are dying of the cancers they cause. Oh, but they aren't. Nevermind.

To the extent that cancer has become any more prevalent in the last generation, the reason is because our lifespan has reached an all time high and cancer is primarily a disease of old people.

I happen to think the risk from Rocky Flats is pretty low too (which is no excuse for the sloppy management there). But you are certainly right that it's a bigger hazard than one damn TV tower.

So how was the Fox HD?? I was at a friends house for Thanksgiving and you dont realize how spoiled you get until you try to watch a game on a 25" SD CRT...

I watched the game on Fox31. I'd call it about average for live football broadcasts in HD (the HD PQ that is, not the quality of the Broncos performance). Seemed like a couple of their cameras were SD though (e.g., end zone shot down the field). More regularly scheduled NFL games on Pay-HDTV are not a trend for the better for fans.

https://www.hdhuddle.com/

Samsung & Best Buy talk to you about HDTV, plus meet Ed. It says that there are still 91 spots left. It's at the BBY at Park Meadows Mall.

Unfortunately, I'll be in Pleasanton, CA and not be able to attend. So please feel free to attend in my absence and ask questions about how we're supposed to receive HDTV without purchasing D* or Dish.

I happen to think the risk from Rocky Flats is pretty low too (which is no excuse for the sloppy management there). But you are certainly right that it's a bigger hazard than one damn TV tower.Well that would be all well and good if their concern was really that of their health, but in reality it's just a way to increase their property values by removing something many people consider to be visual blight.

Samsung & Best Buy talk to you about HDTV, plus meet Ed. It says that there are still 91 spots left. It's at the BBY at Park Meadows Mall.


I will do my best to ask any questions here you guys may need answered..

I will do my best to ask any questions here you guys may need answered..

When will the injunction against the Lake Cedar Group zoning app be lifted?

Don

LCG is still waiting for the Jeffco Commissioners to re-vote based on the tower fall issue.

Judge Jackson reviewed the tower-fall issue in question and told them to re-vote only the facts presented, not the theories and BS that sCare presented at the open hearings. Legally and logically, the Commissioners must vote yes, based on sCARE not presenting any 'real' facts. But, as we all know, the Commissioners could vote no in spite of the Judge. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Anyway, the vote is expected around December or January, they haven't formally announced a date for that as of yet. If its before January, the current sitting commissioners will vote, if its after January, the new Commissioner Kathy Hartman (who's anti-tower) will be one of the three musketeers.

The new Commissioner Kathy Hartman (who's anti-tower) will be one of the three musketeers.
How could they possibly ever make a decision in January. Look how much time has already passed since they got it back from the judge and nothing yet. So how could Kathy make a decision right after becoming a commissioner. I would think she would also need several months to go over all the material.

I would think she would also need several months to go over all the material.
In a perfect world with someone attempting to make an unbiased educated decision, yes.

She has already stated her position. I'd give her 5 minutes.
....jc

A while back, someone mentioned that some of the stations were thinking of adding a tower on top of RP so that they could increase power. Has anyone heard anything on that? Any extra bit of power would be helpful for many of us that don't have perfect LOS.

I was trying to watch Boston Legal tonight on channel 7, and just ended up changing channels and watching something else due to all of the dropouts that I get on 7. It's also very rare that I see channel 20. All of the other RP stations come in perfect for me. Oh well, I am grateful for the few stations that I do get!

I'm glad I updated to Directv locals for HD as I thought that with winter being here I would get better reception from my antenna - and the opposite has been true. I don't check OTA that much anymore since it is not necessary - but when I do - I find that even channel 9 is not available.

Anyway, the vote is expected around December or January, they haven't formally announced a date for that as of yet. If its before January, the current sitting commissioners will vote, if its after January, the new Commissioner Kathy Hartman (who's anti-tower) will be one of the three musketeers.
Part of Judge Jackson's Order of May 23rd was:

The Court directs the Board to proceed with all due speed to bring
this matter to a conclusion.

It has been more than 6th months since this order, and it seems that anything but "all due speed" has occurred with this. As stated before, I am not an attorney. If I were LCG I would file a motion to find JeffCo BCC in Contempt of Court and to pursue sanctions based on that ruling (and maybe a request for Summary Judgement on the whole issue). Maybe LCG cannot file such a motion, since LCG and BCC are both named as defendents in the action.

Part of Judge Jackson's Order of May 23rd was:

The Court directs the Board to proceed with all due speed to bring
this matter to a conclusion.

It has been more than 6th months since this order, and it seems that anything but "all due speed" has occurred with this. As stated before, I am not an attorney. If I were LCG I would file a motion to find JeffCo BCC in Contempt of Court and to pursue sanctions based on that ruling (and maybe a request for Summary Judgement on the whole issue). Maybe LCG cannot file such a motion, since LCG and BCC are both named as defendents in the action.

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. Irony, irony. In the meantime.... zzz....

Don

In a perfect world with someone attempting to make an unbiased educated decision, yes.

She has already stated her position. I'd give her 5 minutes.
....jc

But wait - she's a politician - she has to milk this for all the publicity and political gain that she can. Who knows how long that can take. Once that's done, however, 5 min. . . .

Part of Judge Jackson's Order of May 23rd was:

The Court directs the Board to proceed with all due speed to bring
this matter to a conclusion.
Well it's not as if Judge Jackson has done much to speed the matter along lo these many years.

But wait - she's a politician - she has to milk this for all the publicity and political gain that she can. Who knows how long that can take. Once that's done, however, 5 min. . . .

I love how people generalize. You should hear what the politicians say about the people who generalize about them. It begins "baah, baah, this way sheep!"

:p

Kathy and I are associates. We don't agree on this issue, but we do on most. Jokingly, I asked her a week ago if she could get me a cushy job with the county. She joked back that she ran on an ethics pledge-- no patronage or conflicts of interest. The truth is she means what she says about ethics. To generalize, that attitude is unique for a politician.

Dave Auburn wouldn't take that pledge if you paid him!! :p

The truth is she means what she says about ethics. To generalize, that attitude is unique for a politician.HAAAAAAHHHH!!!! A politician with ethics, she'd be the first in the US!!! She's now in the same category as Lawyers & Car Salesman.

I missed their 1st live game on Thanksgiving due to being out-o-town. Tonights game(Ravens vs Bengals) has been impressive. I'm watching it via D* channel 95(MPEG2). I have absolutely no complaints with PQ or the surround sound. Nice.

While I was gone I helped my parents select & install their 1st HD set. Due to the fact that they had cable, we picked out an LG 42" cable card plasma. Nice! We didn't install the cable card, but with it's built-in QAM tuner we were able to receive all of the locals(in Omaha) and many 'music channels'. The display of HD programming was very good. And, unlike my Mits WS, the SD programming display was also very good. A nice set if you are looking.
....jc

So Kathy Hartman ran on a pledge of ethics. I think a test of her ethics is forthcoming. If she has ethics, she will:

1. Take all possible steps to ensure the JeffCo Commissioners take action under Judge Jackson's order as soon as she takes office. Eight months is not exactly what I would term "due speed" and she should be able to recognize that. Since she already is aware of the issue (and has taken a position on it) I don't think it's ethical to state she needs more time to study the issue. If she does, she shouldn't have taken a postion on it in the first place which, of course, would not have been ethical.

2. Vote yes. The ethical action is to follow the facts as they pertain to the rezoning regs. If she votes no, I question her ethics. A politician cannot carry out the wishes of a small number of constituents (self-centered NIMBY's) when these wishes are not based on law or fact. A no vote violates the public trust to uphold the law. Unless, of course, she's naive enough to believe sCARE's arguments have any validity and cannot see through the veil of the principle of real estate - location (aesthetics/open space), location (aesthetics/open space), location (aesthetics/open space).

This Tower issue is getting so frustrating, I would never have believed it could take so long to get a tower built. I was naive enough to think last year at this time we would have Full Power DTV.

I was in Best Buy last weekend on Black Friday helping a friend pick out a surround system. As I walked by a crowd of people staring at the big screens, all listening to a sales person telling them to be able to get true HD they need Satellite or Cable. What a Crock. This time of year there will be many people buying there first HDTV. The general public is still being misinformed. We ought to stand outside these "Big Box" stores passing out flyers so they will at least know the truth about OTA. or maybe its time to buy stock in satellite and cable.

KWGN Hearing.

KWGN will appear before the Jeffco Commissioners, December 6th at 9am for a public hearing. They are trying to get their tall tower rezoned. If they vote that day, It might be an indication of a future LCG decision.

This Tower issue is getting so frustrating, I would never have believed it could take so long to get a tower built. I was naive enough to think last year at this time we would have Full Power DTV.

I was in Best Buy last weekend on Black Friday helping a friend pick out a surround system. As I walked by a crowd of people staring at the big screens, all listening to a sales person telling them to be able to get true HD they need Satellite or Cable. What a Crock. This time of year there will be many people buying there first HDTV. The general public is still being misinformed. We ought to stand outside these "Big Box" stores passing out flyers so they will at least know the truth about OTA. or maybe its time to buy stock in satellite and cable.

The Bert: You aren't naive, you're just in the minority.

You know, and I know, that what we see on CATV and satellite is not the same as what we see OTA. And that the consumer is being fooled.

Know what?

Virtually nobody else cares. Mr. and Mrs. Consumer are happy.

The person who is shopping the big box stores to get his/her first HDTV--probably an LCD--will be wowed by the PQ at home, excited about feeling that they are "cutting edge" and "cool". They have absolutely no interest in putting a 1950s antenna on their roof. And their HOA discourages that, anyway.

We are the minority; they are the majority. They don't want an education. They want a display bigger than their couch for less than $2500. And a suround sound system for $199.00.

Sorry to say, but complaining about the "crowd of people staring at the big screens" won't change a damn thing. They are getting what they want, which is, of course, the American way of commerce.