Originally posted by MVideo
oh, take the award and get off the stage. :D
:o Alright, alright... I'm leaving!

;)

I asked this in another thread, but got no answers.

I had a problem with "A Chorus Line" the other day. On start-up, it displayed only the button that was selected (Start Movie IIRC), on a black background. No background image, no other buttons. The disk was brand new, out of the box. I tried it twice with the same result.

1) Has anyone else ever seen this behavior, with this or another DVD?

2) Would replacing the loader make any difference?

Thats a new one for me. Never saw anything like that, just lockups every ##&($#~! movie!

rttrek.................Yes I have seen that with my D1, and repeatedly (Ben-Hur, West Side Story, few others) even with 5 different loaders. Somewhere in this thread I came to the conclusion that Bravo has other problems (Firmware I suspect) than JUST Loaders.

Added note. The mentioned DVD's play fine on my RP82 and Computer.

John

Yes. Mine also played fine on my DVL700.

Is the LiteOn XJ-HD166S still working for everyone?

So far, the LiteOn is working fine for me! Just fixed it two weeks ago. I'm only on about 10 movies.

MediocreFred, Viper any comments?

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Rich4av-
They are working on it, I just don't have an official answer for everyone yet.

Jim, it's almost 30 days since you mentioned that Vinc was working on a firmware fix for loaders.

Since then, my return period ended. I trusted you and I think I and other buyers deserve an answer soon. It can't take that long to fix the loader interface, especially since they have been aware of the problems for months.

After all, by replacing the loader, many of us did a favor to Vinc. I just hope that Vinc will take care of its existing customers instead of dangling a "fixed" D2 at us and suggesting that we buy it to get a "working" machine.

Originally posted by Rich4av
Jim, it's almost 30 days since you mentioned that Vinc was working on a firmware fix for loaders.
Stayed tuned to this channel for updates.

My Starlogic Platinum loader is working very well after consistent problems with freezes and loading problems with the original loader. It still has difficulty loading a few disks, but only occasionally, and always has loaded successfully on the second try. I have not had a freeze nor chapter skip in the 20+ movies played since I installed it.

Now if we could just get it to play Video encoded DVDs without the horrible 'venetian blind' effect. Television sourced DVD's like Sex and the City, The Sopranos, etc., do not display well at all due to the double trying to do a 2:3 pull-down from their video encoded stream. Similarly, Monty Python's The Meaning of Life is just unwatchable on this machine, improperly authored DVD I believe, but it plays fine on my other players.

Still, I love what the D1 does when it works properly!

Andy

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Stayed tuned to this channel for updates.

OK, Jim. I hope that it will be soon ;)

any posiblitly of getting venetian bilnd effect taken care of. as there are a few video based dvd i watch parts of once in a while

tonyb100

I have not seen anyone mention anything other than loading, skipping, or lockups relating to the Loader replacement.

John

John,

Try screening any of the TV series I mentioned in my earlier post and see if you see the venetian blind effect as well. I have not checked to see if the DVDs are appropriately flagged as video stream in the IFO files, but they exhibit a frame construction problem on the D1 but not on my Panasonic RP91.

Jim Noyd referred me to a review on Widescreen Review that gave the D1 high marks for video source material but I am not able to read it without a subscription to the magazine. I would be curious as to what DVDs they used to test it.

Andy

I will actually have an evening alone with my PJ and Bravo Friday, I will try some of my video based material as well.

BB

Andy....I was referring to a Loader replacement not being associated to the "Venetian blind effect", although anything is possible with the great D1:D

John

Ugghhh.. I ordered the Lite-on XJ-HD166S and they sent me the Lite on LTC-4816H which is a 48x24x48x CDRW & 16X Combo drive...

Should I even try it or should I sent it back?

Thanks!

Ugghhh.. I ordered the Lite-on XJ-HD166S and they sent me the Lite on LTC-4816H which is a 48x24x48x CDRW & 16X Combo drive...

Should I even try it or should I sent it back?

Thanks!

Of course, try it!

I figured that would be the answer... I was most worried about it lining up correctly...

I would not worry about the alignment, just try the unit sitting on top of the original Fuss Loader and see if you are satisfied with the operation with a number of DVDs and then figure out the mounting.

John

Even with my LiteOn, Digital Video Essentials doesn't seem to work on the D1. The player recognizes a DVD, the screen goes black... and that's it. The counter keeps moving but there is NOTHING on the screen!

This is the FIRST DVD, out of maybe 20 or 25 that I've played since installing the LiteOn, that didn't work.

Anybody else experiencing this?

I just installed a Toshiba SD-M1212 in my Bravo D1 which i had received last week. Had this drive laying around in my computer doing much of anything have to say it works great and lined up perfectly.I also ordered the Toshiba SD-M1502 in black but decided to test out with the current one i had around while i wait for the 1502 to arrive.Once again it works great with the bravo and lines up perfect i just changed the tray front cover to make it look retail. Thank You Deathwind for your webpage if i wasn't looking for firmware for the D1 in google i would have never found your webpage or about this modification.One thing what are you guys using to hold down your Dvd Drives.The holes don't line up on the bottom for now I'm using electrical tape looped to hold it in place and also picked up some Velcro squares from home depot but just curious to see what is proven


Thanks again

Originally posted by Glex25
One thing what are you guys using to hold down your Dvd Drives.The holes don't line up on the bottom for now I'm using electrical tape looped to hold it in place and also picked up some Velcro squares from home depot but just curious to see what is proven


Thanks again
I use four Velcro pieces with the LiteOn. Works perfectly.

Did you have to doing any modding to get the Bezel of the D1 to work on the Liteon?

Did you have to doing any modding to get the Bezel of the D1 to work on the Liteon?

The only "mod" I did was to exchange the face plate of the Fuss Audio (default Bravo loader) with that of the LiteOn. The Fuss Audio face plate has the necessary depth to fit flush with the D1 body. The LiteOn face plate is too shallow and too tall. With the FA face plate in place, the LiteOn fit with near perfection.

Sent my D1 back. Too many brand new DVD's that it either won't load, or freezes at the start menu, or plays theme music only w/no picture. This is nuts. I also am getting tired of waiting in fear for a lockup while watching a movie that it will load.
I work in QC Engineering for a major U.S. company, and can't believe this thing made it out the door. We would have issued a recall.

Any improvement in these units? Anybody still buying them?
I'll probably try the Samsung unit next

Clamhead.....V,inc. has a firmware update which has improved the unit functioning (not addressing loader reliability here) with the original configuration, but I still see some startup problems & quirks, about at the level of a unit with a replaced Loader. Not sure about scratched disk handling yet.

John

I have a new Toshiba loader I received in the mail. Do I just connect it in the Bravo and voila??? Is there something else I need to do first? I'm sure the answer is embedded in this post somewhere, but I just can't seem to find an exact answer.

I replaced Liteon 166s in my Momitsu V880 and played DVE without any problem.

Originally posted by Andre_PacPal
...Jim Noyd referred me to a review on Widescreen Review that gave the D1 high marks for video source material but I am not able to read it without a subscription to the magazine. I would be curious as to what DVDs they used to test it.• Page 60: Video Essentials' "Montage of Images," video-source segments:
Softer images than from players that provide motion-adaptive deinterlacing; Greg recommends keeping a second player for viewing non-film sources.

• Page 62-63: All these looked great through DVI:
The Fifth Element
Die Another Day
LOTR: FOTR
The Hunt for Red October (new widescreen version)
T2: Judgment Day (Extreme DVD version)

• Page 62: Soft, but without any artifacts:
The Hunt for Red October (letterboxed)

• Page 63: Lockups
Player froze only once, while scanning backward on The Hunt for Red October (widescreen). Greg "cycled the power switch."

• Page 58: "Remote Control"
"... each time a disc navigation key is pressed ... the Zoom mode is canceled. I doubt this was intended..."

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Rich4av-
They are working on it, I just don't have an official answer for everyone yet.

Been two months now, any word? I just ordered a D1 last night before discovering this thread. Now that I've spent all afternoon catching up on it, I'm wondering if I should cancel my order while I still can, or just go ahead and order the LiteOn now.

By the way, has anyone but mpedris experienced incompatibility with Digital Video Essentials using the D1, modded or unmodded?

Luxo...............The current version of Firmware that the D1 is shipping with is comparable to a D1 with a replaced Loader, except that the initial start-up time is slower (the average access time is a lot slower than the current crop of DVD drives) but other than that, you will still get some "Startup errors" no matter which loader is used.
The other point is that if you replace the Loader you MUST use the previous version (1.0.0.5) of the MPEG4 Firmware, which is available for download at V,inc. website.

As far as DVE goes; it isn't incompatible with the D1, it just has a complicated menu system and I think that Avia is easer to use.

John

Originally posted by Luxo

By the way, has anyone but mpedris experienced incompatibility with Digital Video Essentials using the D1, modded or unmodded?
Luxo,

It's true that when I played DVE initially only the sound was coming with no picture on the screen. Then, upon another member's suggestion (dont recall the name), I first played a DVD that works fine and then reloaded DVE. This time DVE worked flawlessly. I'm happy to note that I've used DVE about 4 times since then and all 4 times it had worked without a problem.

Recently, I had the same issue when I first played Lion King. I repeated the same procedure and Lion King has been working flawlessly ever since (watched it about 3 times).

Weird, I know. But the process works in getting certain DVDs to work.

Thanks for the tips, good people. Guess some simple workarounds are worth a cheap and flawless DVI signal. Can't wait to get it all setup.

I've had no problems with VE on my D1.

I had the same loader problems....walked into the local compusa and bought the cheapest drive they had (~$48)..the comp usa rebranded one. It seems to be working fine and is very quiet.

The make/model of the loader is an Ultima Electronics Corp DHM-1648R. I'll chime back in if I have any problems with it in the future.

This loader replacement seems faster/cheaper and better than sending it back to Vinc.

Many thanks to all who posted their information here....this is a great thread. Is their any special trick to removing the faceplates? Is it a snap on part, ie do I just force it off? I don't want to break it.

Yuriwho

p.s. I opted for a white tray

I've been following the D1 Loader topic here for a while.
I bought a D1 a few months ago. Had lock-up and other odd problems (as many
have reported here). Vinc replaced the player. Better, but still had random
lock-ups, layer change freezes, etc. They sent me servo and mpeg4 firmware
updates. A bit better. Then the drive (loader) began making loud noises
when powered off with the remote and a dvd still in the drive. Argh.

I spoke again with Mark at V today (a ~very~ nice guy, btw. The have been very
helpful and cooperative). He offered to replace the unit again. He also said
they are shipping out the last of the D1's and there will be no more. They hoped
to have the D2 out by now, but there have been some delays. They want to get all
of the problems/issues fixed. But, D2's ARE in the works. He said they will
also have some new features and stuff. Somethihng to look forward to perhaps.

SO... i decided to try replacing the loader as many here have done. Bought a
Lite-On 166S unit (black) and had at it. Below is the procedure i followed that
worked out really well and so far no problems. And it sure is ~fast~ now!
Yes, the Lite-On is a bit loud, especially at spinup, but tolerable for me considering
the performance improvements. Here is what worked for me...

1. Temporarily mounted the new drive in a Win2000 pc and set the region. It seems
you ~must~ do this. I'm Region-1, but i successfully used rpcde2.exe to set it
region-free. I tried it in the D1 without this step and it did ~not~ work right.

2. Removed the Fuss drive from D1. There are two small washers between the Fuss
and the case mounting pads. Save these and use below.

3. Removed small metal bracket mounted to the D1 front panel. It gets in the way.

4. Removed the Lite-On front bezel and tray front piece. Replaced tray front piece
with one from the Fuss unit. It does fit ok if you very slightly spread the
mounting nubs.

5. Set L-O jumper to 'Master'.

6. Used small diagonal cutters to clip off the L-O volume knob and headphone jack.
Just enough to keep them from protruding too far but not enough to destroy them.

7. The two small washers removed above are just the right thickness to shim the
L-O drive. Temp stick them to the top of the chassis front drive mounting pads
to keep them from moving around. I used a dab of 'crazy glue'.

8. Temporarily slide the new drive in place and check for fit. Hook up and be sure
the tray properly clears the panel opening. With those washers in place it fits
perfectly. Be careful of something conductive touching the front panel circuit
board. I strapped a couple layers of vinyl electrical tape across the front of
the L-O guts to prevent shorts.

9. I used hot-melt glue to secure the new drive (how i DO love hot-melt glue <g>).
Have the drive ready to go with no wires connected. Squirt a good-sized gob of
hot-melt on each of the four chassis mounting pads and then ~quickly~ install
the drive. I practiced a few times first cuz you don't have a lot of time to
slide it around once the glue starts to cool. If you do mess up, the glue
can be (carefully) pried up, cleaned up, and you can try again. Got mine right
the first time (whew!). You'd never know it has been modified.

10. Hook up the drive, power on, and give it a test drive!

Note: - I did not meddle with Lite-On firmware etc. This unit was made in May 2003.
- Bravo firmware revision is 1.0.0.5 (filename: v-07-08-03.iso to burn cdrom).

I appreciate all the comments and ideas from everyone here. Had i not found this
thread and read it all, i would not have even known you could do this. Thanks to
all! I hope the above may be of help or inspiration to someone contemplating doing
a loader replacement. It really is easier than it might sound and you can go back
to the original Fuss drive if needed. Before i started the actual replacement i did
hook-up the L-O drive whilst sitting on top of the Fuss to test it out first. Highly
recommend anyone do the same before taking the plunge <g>

Michael B.
"It works for me"

Go going Michael.................

I sure hope V,inc. does FIX the remaining problems that have plagued us; with the new D2. I would rather have a RELIABLE unit than any more "BELL & WHISTLES"

John

Michael
Basically what you now have is a region free player with a DVI output, correct?

Can i put the new drive in a PC running Xp and set the region??

John - thanks. I agree - a reliable Bravo would be wonderful. I really like
the D1 a lot! If i didn't i would not have gone to the effort to replace the
drive. When V has a D2 available i suspect i'll give it a try. I will report back
here after using the modified D1 for a week or two, but so far not a single problem.
And, as mentioned before, it is ~really~ fast now. Menus and chapter changes nearly
instant, fast forward (up to 48x) zooms.

Joe - well, i believe it might be region-free. I am in the US and only have region 1
dvds, so i can't say for sure. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that the
region checking code may well be in the Bravo rather than the drive (loader).
The DVI output is wonderful!

ARFF - i would imagine you could set the region with XP. I used 2000 because i happened
to have 'test' pc with covers removed, so it was easy. I believe others here have
mentioned using XP. I'd guess you could even do it with 98 or DOS with the right software.
I used rpcde2.exe available here perso.club-internet.fr/farzeno/dvds/rpcde2.zip
and referenced here forum.firmware-flash.com/dl_firmware.php?download_id=99
to set 'region free', although Win2000 allows you to set region from Device manager.
XP should have the same.

Michael

Joe,

Putting in a region-free loader is only one requirement. The second requirement is to access the secret menu in firmware and make the unit region-free. To date, the key sequence to access the secret menu is a closely guarded (and resellable) secret...

The only reason I want region free is to have access to movies with DTS soundtracks. All too often I really want a movie, only to find it only has a Dolby Digital soundtrack. Then, when I look at other regions, I see a DTS track available. That's just wrong!

My signature line below says it all...

As Rich has indicated, the Region checking is done on the processor. The original Fuss Audio Loader is Region Free, thus the checking at the processor.

John

Just popping in to say, I'm still alive, but the reason there's been no work done on the web page and firmware by me is because I just got bogged down with work and other projects - and I knew that stepping through the fully reversed init code wasn't going to be a small project. So it will happen eventually if nobody else comes forward with the remote code (and even then it will still probably happen, because there are other features and fixes I'd like to see happen in the firmware), but sorry for not working on it/keeping people updated. :)

I have had my D1 for a couple of weeks and so far I have experienced the following issues:

First, about my player:
The player was delivered late in October. With a serial number of MCCD210209x (where x is a number 1-9). Since the latest firmware available on the V,Inc web page is dated well before any of the production dates printed in my machine, I am assuming that the player was delivered with the latests possible firmware.
The loader in my unit is a Fuss Audio model DV9929B Ver: 1.4. Other than being /extremely/ slow I have experienced no loader related problems. Since it isn't particularly quiet, I will consider changing it if only to speed things up a bit.

I have played just over 30 (some rentals in poor quality/scratches) DVD's and have experienced problems playing the following 3 DVD's.
The same behavior is experienced for all of the following DVD's.
Insert disc, VFD displays "DVD", disc plays audio, but no video is displayed, after several minutes the audio begins skipping. Hitting menu, stop, play, or resetting the box does not help.
This only happens if the machine was freshly started before trying to play one of these disc. That is, for all of these DVD's, if you first play a known working DVD in the player, stop it, eject, and then stick in one of the following DVD's (without powering off the Bravo), they will then play fine WITHOUT any troubles what so ever. I see that similar behavior is experienced by other owners, perhaps there is a problem recognizing certain discs, the media, or the video/menu format.
I have found the following DVD's to manifest this problem:
-Digital Video Essentials (NTSC), No Region
-Catch Me If You Can, Disk 1, Region 1
-Captain Kronos: Vampire Hunter, Region 1

I have tried many other video files. VCD's, mpeg2, mpeg4, DiVX, XviD, etc. I have been unable to play any DiVX files (3, 4, or 5.x) or XviD files, using several different codecs and audio compression options. The VFD displays "ISO CD" and the file(s) are listed in the Video Library file menu. When I attempt to play any *.avi file the screen is blank while it reads the file, and then it displays the error "Cannot playback file. Video/Audio format not supported". If I rename a DiVX file to end in .mp4 it will not show up on the file list. If I rename it to .mpg and try to play it, I do not get the error, instead the screen goes black and the counter counts away (no audio or video).
My friend has a LiteOn LVD-2001 (same chip-set) which IS able to play these same DiVX files (3.11 get skippy during high motion parts). So this is obviously an issue with the Bravo's firmware. Worth mentioning is that the LiteOn player would not read all of the burnt media (CDRs) that we through at it. Where as the D1 did. Possibly an issue with the loader used in the LiteOn unit. I did not investigate further. Just a heads-up to anyone considering that player.

The Video Library menu only lists files of an extension which it recognizes (.avi, .mpg, and .mpeg). I find this to be an undesirable behavior. There are better, more accurate ways of determining file type.
What about WMV files? Isn't the Sigma chip capable if playing these? These files wont even be listed on the disc.

Another thing that really, really needs to be corrected in the next firmware release is displaying the current firmware version. There is no place that it is displayed. Whoever heard of this!
What version firmware was my unit shipped with? Who knows?

I use a Pioneer Elite VSX-39TX THX Ultra Surround Sound Processor. Whenever I hit the Volume Up button on my universal LCD remote the Bravo D1 does random things. Most often it will eject the disk. Other functions (switching from THX Cinema to DTS Effects) can also cause the D1 to act-up.

The most disappointing issue is that I have not been able to get a signal via DVI out to my Pioneer Elite RPTV. Nothing, not even scan lines, flicker, or fuzz. I have no other display devices with DVI input, therefor I have nothing else to test the Bravo with. However, it is not a fault of my HD Monitor as I get video in (excellent quality) from my HTPC and from a Samsung SIRT351 STB. The input jack on my monitor states that it will only accept a 1080i signal, which I set the D1 to output.
This may be a compatibility issue?

I have had no lock-ups or chapter skip problems with any DVDs
Anyway, in order to compare notes, I just thought that I would record my experiences thus far.

Cheers, -Jeff

Jeff.............Some of the start problems (no video, audio moving ahead rapidly, etc.) are typical problems that I have found, even with a replacement Loader.
I only use the unit for standard DVD movie formats so I can't address the other issues.
The NO DVI output appears to be a incorrect setup problem with the D1. Are you sure you have the "HD Component out" set to OFF; and the "HD DVI out" to ON???

With your ship date you should have the latest Firmwares (Servo and MPEG4, ver 1.0.0.6) installed. The Firmware on their website is MPEG4, ver. 1.0.0.5 and would need to be installed if you replace the Fuss Audio Loader with an aftermarket one.
I don't expect V,inc. will address any more issues with the D1 because as I understand it, they are coming out with a new model.

John

Any ETA on the new model? Perhaps the PR rep for V, Inc. could comment? Thanks.

For those who received the 'servo' code cdrom from V...
For grins i had a look at the files on the cd. Mine had a 23 meg file called
zip.zip along with a .bin file. Out of curiosity i unzipped the .zip and found
some, um, 'interesting' stuff. None of it seems to be related to the code
update. Let's just say there are a number of .doc and .xls files, some interesting, some amusing. Nothing related to V or the D1 that i saw.
Just one of those 'oops' things. If you're bored, have a look <g>.

About my D1/Lite-on hack - have played a good number of DVD movies,
including testing several that had been problems in the past, and not a
single glitch! I'm very happy so far, to say the least.

John - I am using the 1.0.0.5 mpeg code. You mention above that one must use .5 rather than .6 when using an aftermarket loader. I'm just curious
if you know why that is or what effect(s) the .6 code would create. would it
simply not work? I suppose i could try it, but...

Thanks

Michael

If one installs 1.0.0.6, then later decides to change the loader, can one back up to [reinstall] 1.0.0.5?

Michael...........During my testing of the latest update I installed my aftermarket loader (actually tried all four) and found that I was getting a lot of errors similar to the problems when using the original (not updated)Fuss Audio Loader, and the previous updates (1.0.0.5 and before).

rttrek......Yes you can reinstall 1.0.0.5. That is what I did during my testing. Of course once you update the Servo Firmware into the Fuss Audio Loader there is no turning back as the original Firmware is not available to us mortals:D

John

http://www.st-trade.co.jp/support/utility/speed.html

Had anyone ever try to use this software to down speed of your pioneer DVD-ROM and see the effect? I had use this software to down speed my pioneer DVD-121 in my PC for reducing the noisy,and it worked fine for this. For playing DVD,you do'nt need high speed DVD-ROM. I had replaced 121 in my V880 before I had a chance to find this software.Now,I had changed to LITEON 166S because there were no region free firmware for 121. I felt the Liteon 166S was noisy in the initial start-up( from the beginning or after pause ,stop, and fast forward). Also,is it possible to fix the problem of layer change with chapter skip just with the change of speed of DVD play?

Tufu..............I did incorporate the "speed down" when I was testing my Pioneer unit. I wanted to use it because it is a front loader, but the layer change issue still persisted. Others have tried Pioneer units and had layer change issues. I'm sure the D1 processor Firmware could be modified to solve that problem................but that's another story.
You are correct that all the speed is not needed for this application.

John

Have a question on jerky video image. I put in James Taylor Live at the Beacon and found the video to be constantly jerking... Is this a loader problem or something else. I have the LiteOn to install but havent noticed a real need for it yet.. any thoughts?

The D1 does badly with video based material if it is not flagged really well. Many have seen frame stuttering with concert video DVDs. Might be your problem as well.

BB

The video stutter happens only (in my experience) when using a custom resolution at an unusual refresh rate. This is a problem in my case since I use DVI to a Sony VPL-HS10 at 1366x768@56fps. Switching to 720p fixes it.

I finally got thru to a person at V-inc about whether the hang up issues us folks are having is fimrware or the loader. He said that it is the loader for sure and that they are replacing them (with what I don't know) and to send it in for repair.

BTW: what you guys are doing here is GREAT! I just got my D1. If the V-Inc warranty work doesn't fix mine, I'll replace per this forums threads.

Good work on some great threads regarding this issue

Hi all,

Thank you for this awesome information.
I'd like to ask the people that have the Lite On drive, are the XJHD-166 and XJHD-166S two different models of this drive? I jusat want to make sure is that S at the end makes a difference cause so far I've only found ones without the S on the model number
Thank you!

I believe the 'S' identifies the retail boxed version with <S>oftware
(usually some dvd player stuff, instructions, etc.). Without the 'S'
is usually just the bare drive with no extra stuff. The drive itself should
be identical as far as i know. There is also a version with black front panel
and it often costs a bit more. No need for the D1 since the front part
has to be removed anyway.

Michael

Did anyone have a problem with the open and close function of the new loaders? I'm experiencing a weird problem. When no disc is in the loader the tray will open with the eject button and remain open. If a disc is already in the loader the tray will open and then close with 1 push of the eject button. After I hit the eject a second time (after tray retracts) the tray will open and remain open.

Thoughts??? I did not flash the new loader with the latest firmware. My player already has the firmware loaded by the manufacture. I did change the region code of the drive to region 1. I'm using a Toshiba SD-M1802.

Alan

Originally posted by Chili Minora
Did anyone have a problem with the open and close function of the new loaders? I'm experiencing a weird problem. When no disc is in the loader the tray will open with the eject button and remain open. If a disc is already in the loader the tray will open and then close with 1 push of the eject button. After I hit the eject a second time (after tray retracts) the tray will open and remain open.

Thoughts??? I did not flash the new loader with the latest firmware. My player already has the firmware loaded by the manufacture. I did change the region code of the drive to region 1. I'm using a Toshiba SD-M1802.

Alan

Alan,

I think I may have seen the same sort of thing out of the LiteOn I am using but it doesn't happen every time so I figured I bumped it or something but I guess maybe not. Also mine will do it without a disc in it, I don't think the disc has anything to do with it.

John

From what I can tell the drive works fine without the disc. As soon as the disc is placed in the tray the drive reads the disc and sends the info to the dac card. The dac card controls the drive and for some reason the EM8500 card never tells the drive to turn off and stop spinning. The Fuss loader had the same problem...if you placed the power in the stand by mode via the remote the Fuss drive would continue to spin. It only stopped when the unit was power down by the front panel switch. The eject function is a software glitch.

Alan

Alan,

With my Toshiba DVD drive in an external case, I have no such problems with the eject button. I tested many times since last night.

Interesting...is the drive isolated from the case (plastic external case)???

Alan

With the six different brand Loaders I have tested in the past, I may have run into the problem when I had not set the drive to MASTER (don't recall for sure), and perhaps if using the EJECT button on the drive itself.
All the tests were with the original batch 1 and 2, and 1.0.0.5 rev. Firmware. The latest firmware (MPEG 1.0.0.6) did not function as well as 1.0.0.5 with after market Loaders.

John

I own two Bravo D1s, both with latest firmware updates. I no longer experience any freezes during play. What I have observed is that rental DVDs will sometimes refuse to play the first attempt. I just open and reclose the DVD from the remote and about 80% of the time it plays just fine after that. Once in awhile I need to do this twice before it plays. What I have noticed though is that any DVD backup copy I play that has no macrovision, plays everytime without errors. I have to conclude from this that whatever causes the Bravo to skip on the first attempt at reading a DVD has got to have something to do with macrovision copyguard.

I agree the macrovision is one of the problems.

Alan

Originally posted by Chili Minora
Interesting...is the drive isolated from the case (plastic external case)???

Alan

Yes, it is in a metal case that fits into a plastic outer case. Very well insulated. There is no metal contact between the D1 and the drive, except for the 80-pin ATA cable.

I already tried the isolation method...that didn't work.

Do you use a ATX for the drive?

Alan

I use an ADS external USB 2.0 case with its own power supply. The DVD drive is a Toshiba...

Other than that, the rest is Magic ;)

The 1802 is based on a different design from previous versions. For more info check out forum.firmware-flash.com

Lil confused.. How do you use these with the Bravo.. Actual hookup instructions please...

Any word if the currently shipping D1's are fixed (both loader issues and any other bugs)?

ARFF

You need to flash the drive in your pc before install. The stock Bravo switch mode is not up to the task of powering the new drive. You will need to design a power supply for the drive.


Ruiner

The Bravo's are still shipping with the old Fuss drive. I have not seen any upgrades from the new series of players except the latest Sigma Designs firmware upgrade. Vinc has a habit of recycling returned units. I do not think they have a qualified tech staff on board for part swaps. I believe Vinc is nothing more than a sales force taking orders over the phone and the net. All of the kits are purchased from Technosonic's in China who is the main manufacture of all the Sigma Designs EM8500 dvd kits/players.

Alan

If V is recycling units, I feel sorry for the poor SOB that gets the one I returned. It was possessed I'm sure

The EM8500 design has not been fun to work on. In Vinc case they used a poorly designed power supply. It's a shame the Fuss drive got most of the blame, but the power supply was just not up to snuff to power everything properly. We found most of our problems disappeared when we added a dedicated power supply for the dvd drive. Removing the entire switch mode and moving to a ATX fixed 99.997% of the original problems.

For those who like to tinker take a look at Vinc front panel display. Part of the dac cards voltage flows through the panel display. By the time the voltages reach the dac card it's the bare minimum required for the circuit. When the drive first spins during boot up the processor looses signal because of a voltage drop. The main reason for the black video and skipping audio problem is the voltage drop at this stage. Keep in mind the drop is only for a split second, but it's enough of time for the processor to drop the signal coming from the drive. As soon as we removed the drive from the stock power supply and added a linear supply the drop outs disappeared. The ATX design took it a step further allowing more control for each section.

Alan

Whats the best way to simulate load (dummy load) on the 12VDC / 5VDC power connector that goes to the stock Fuss loader from the PS? I've heard you mention this, but I'm an electronic amateur

Sorry I don't give out my mod secrets :)

Alan

Sounded like it was simply putting a new drive in a seperate housing and just connecting it to the D1 via the D1's IDE cable.. The power comes from the power supply of the drive housing

Good point, I suppose the stock power lead can simply be left attached to the stock loader.

Alan,

Have you seen any of the new batch of Bravos (just received by V, Inc. on Dec. 24)? I have been told by V, Inc. that the current batch of players has the new loader. I have not opened one to check, just relaying what I was told.

Arff,

Since you asked, here's how I connected mine. I used a USB external case similar to this one from ADS: http://www.adstech.com/products/USB_2_Drivekit/intro/USB804intro.asp?pid=USBX-804

I installed a DVD drive (a Toshiba, not even an 1802 but an older model) into the USB case. I connected the power connector. I removed the case's stock ribbon cable.

I then got an ATA 100/133 ribbon cable (80 conductor) and connected to the DVD drive. I closed the external case and the ribbon sticks out the back. If it's too tight, you may need to cut a slot for the cable (see below).

Important: You need a ribbon cable that does not have the blocked center hole in the connector as the D1 has all pins!! Many PC cables have blocked holes. You can find cables with all pins open - check Fry's or other stores.

Then, open the D1 case, disconnect the Fuss loader (I did not bother with a dummy load and had no problems). Disconnect the ribbon cable from the graphic card in the D1 and connect the ribbon cable from the USB case. I did not put a heat sink on the processor chip but you can do this if you wish.

Put the D1's cover back on and leave it loose for the ribbon cable in the back(or, use metal shears and cut a slot into the back of the case, above the component connectors; bend the metal down to open a small opening for the ribbon cable). Screw the cover on if you added an opening for the ribbon cable.

Carefully position the USB case on top of the D1 or on its side in your cabinet. Connect the power, component and audio cables. You are set!

Mike

The last batch I saw was Dec 10. I can't imagine any major changes with the D2 coming out in a couple months, unless they are shipping in a D1 case as a consumer test.

Alan

I'm trying to decide today whether to order the Toshiba or the Liteon to replace my D1 loader. My main priority is which will be more reliable to play DVD-R. Has anyone used either extensively with DVD-R without problems?

Thanks,

Bob

I,ve tried the newer lite-on drives, in my opinion, they are very noisy. I use a Toshiba, I think 1712 in my HTPC, whisper quiet

Thanks, AgentSmith. Have you by chance had occasion to try dvd-r discs with it? If so did they play okay?

Bob

Originally posted by Chili Minora
Mike

The last batch I saw was Dec 10. I can't imagine any major changes with the D2 coming out in a couple months, unless they are shipping in a D1 case as a consumer test.

Alan

Yes, that batch was no different, but this new batch is supposed to have a new loader. I'll be checking out the D2 at CES and talking to their tech guys, so we'll see then. Thanks.

I can try this evening

Does the board in this player have a standard ATX psu header? That sounds plug and play.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I can try this evening

thanks

Question for Rich4av... Did you find that the audio section of the Bravo improved after your outboard player modification? I understand the audio suffers because the power supply is insuficient. It seems like the juice to the Dac would become available with the external USB unit driving the DVD player.

quad user,

I cannot say as I did not test the audio separately... It's always sounded fine to my ears.

Ruiner,

The processor board has a non-standard power connector, which is why you need to continue to use the D1 power supply card.

Ruiner

You have to know how to step down and up the voltages on the ATX for the Bravo. Our Silver Reference is designed with this in mind. You can swap out the power supply in our unit by disconnecting the plugs to upgrade at any time. We plan on offering power supply upgrades over time for our EM8500 version.

Alan

Do you guys think the Toshiba 1802 is as good a choice as the 1712 for D1 substitution?

Bob

Where can I get the 1.0.0.6 firmware? Vinc only has 1.0.0.5 on their website. Can someone email an ISO image to me?

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff412
Where can I get the 1.0.0.6 firmware? Vinc only has 1.0.0.5 on their website. Can someone email an ISO image to me?

Thanks,
Jeff Jeff- You can also send an email to techsupp@vinc.us and request a CD of it.

Jeff... as far as I know version 1.0.0.5 is the latest firmware for the Bravo. The Momitsu V880 has a 1.0.0.6 firmware upgrade. I don't know if it is compatible with the Bravo.

[i]Ruiner,
The processor board has a non-standard power connector, which is why you need to continue to use the D1 power supply card. [/B]
Hi,
Did anyone try to add a capacitor on the power supply of D1?
On Momitsu 880 some folks have added a capacitor in parallel to existing capacitor. It seems to solve most of the problems for Momitsu player.

Rhoniel

Originally posted by Rhoniel Kase
Hi,
Did anyone try to add a capacitor on the power supply of D1?
On Momitsu 880 some folks have added a capacitor in parallel to existing capacitor. It seems to solve most of the problems for Momitsu player.

Rhoniel

Yup I have done this on my Bravo. Replaced the 400v 47uF cap with a 250v 100uF cap. Since the 250 is well within the usage in the US the lower voltage isn't an issue and it has >2X the capacitance to better deal with loads from the loader spinning up. I haven't had a single issue with my Bravo with it's usage, no skipping or dropouts and no discs fail to load (LiteOn 166 loader). The picture is clearly an improvement over my friends Panny PR-62 on his FPJ but honestly I can't tell much of a difference between the Bravo and my XP30 on my 50" GWIII. Probably going to sell my Bravo to my buddy.

John

Are you comparing the xp30 at 480p to bravo at 1080i? This is the comparison to be made, not bravo at 480p.

Best,
jeff

Originally posted by greeno
Are you comparing the xp30 at 480p to bravo at 1080i? This is the comparison to be made, not bravo at 480p.

Best,
jeff

Yup XP30 running 480i up against the Bravo at 1080i or 720p (through DVI) there just isn't much I can see that is different in the picture. I think it may be because the GWIII native res is an odd one so it is doing some conversion for any input. On my friends PJ the native res is 720 so the PJ isn't doing anything to the signal thus the vast difference. There may be a slight difference on the GWIII but it is subtle if anything it was night and day on the PJ.

John

Originally posted by Grasschopper
Yup I have done this on my Bravo. Replaced the 400v 47uF cap with a 250v 100uF cap. Since the 250 is well within the usage in the US the lower voltage isn't an issue and it has >2X the capacitance to better deal with loads from the loader spinning up. I haven't had a single issue with my Bravo with it's usage, no skipping or dropouts and no discs fail to load (LiteOn 166 loader).
John
Hi John,
Did you experience any trouble with your D1 before adding the capacitor?
Did adding new capacitor fixed any problems? Thanks.

Rhoniel

Originally posted by Rhoniel Kase
Hi John,
Did you experience any trouble with your D1 before adding the capacitor?
Did adding new capacitor fixed any problems? Thanks.

Rhoniel

Actually I replaced the cap in the power supply right out of the box after reading all the stuff Alan had to say and reading the Momitsu thread. I was worried that the 250v cap wouldn't cut it but it had been flawless.

John

John,

Since I'm not too technical, I gotta ask this: Why did you go with a 250v 100uF capacitor as opposed to a 400v 100uF one?

Originally posted by mpedris
John,

Since I'm not too technical, I gotta ask this: Why did you go with a 250v 100uF capacitor as opposed to a 400v 100uF one?

It was purely a local availability thing. If the 250v cap didn't work I was going to order a 400v cap but the 250v cap is working just fine.

John

Well i have now tried switching the loader to the LiteOn and even put the LiteOn in an external case as suggested earlier. It seems it makes no difference what I do with this piece of crap. It is just inconsistant with its playback. Anything else I can try that wont cost me any more money?? Thanx..

No.

If you are willing to try a different DVD drive, try a Toshiba drive in an external case. Use an 80-pin ribbon cable for better noise rejection. I would be surprised if this did not work quite well. Also, always remember to turn on the external case about 15-20 seconds before the D1; otherwise, you will have playback problems due to poor initialization of the loader. Good luck!

Thanx Rich

would the 80 pin help with the LiteOn as well ya think?

I received my D1 last week after a 4 week wait. Nearly every disc encountered problems, mainly with startup. After reading this thread I placed my old Toshiba 1502 in and not a single problem since. How can I tell in a short period of time if this unit also has power supply issues?

Also, how can I tell when this unit was made? There is a date stamp inside that shows July 2003 but I was told that this unit was part of the "new shipment".

I have not found any real difference using the 80 pin IDE cable in the past, but it should not hurt anything to use one.

I had the best luck with my Toshiba, of all the Loaders I tried. Now I am using the original Fuss Audio Loader with good results.

No way to tell the exact vintage, but I received my "Batch 2" back in May 2003.

John

Originally posted by jrannison
I had the best luck with my Toshiba, of all the Loaders I tried. Now I am using the original Fuss Audio Loader with good results.
John

I'm not sure I understand. So are you now back to an unmodified D1?

I replaced the Fuss loader yesterday with a Toshia SD-M1802. I mounted the Toshiba drive in an ADS external enclosure with its own power supply. I connected the drive to the D1 with a 36" ribbon cable. Since the cable is so thin, I was even able to put the covers on both cases with the cable spilling out the backs.

I tested it with about 10 discs. Much faster loading / getting to the menu. Also, I have several burned discs (DVD-Rs) that would consistently freeze at the same point with the Fuss. They all played. The one oddity - when I stop a disc and hit "open" on the remote, the draw opens and then closes immediately. Then, the D1 thinks the DVD is a ISO disc. If I then hit "open" again, the draw stays out until you hit "open" one more time and the D1 recognizes the disc as a DVD appropriately. Weird but no big deal.

So initial testing look good.

Then I tried loading DVE. It wouldn't play. It appears to load and the counter starts but no image or sound. I tried swapping cables and even tried using the power supply from the D1 but no luck. I hooked up the old loader and it plays fine.

Oh well, D1 perfection is just not in the cards. I'll be looking at the new DVI enabled Toshibas once available. Its a shame really. I firmly believe that Vinc misjudged the market. They could have spent another 50% or even 100% in design and construction and delivered a reliable product. The consumer interested in such a unit wouldn't think twice about plunking down $300-400 for one considering we are spending that much on a simple DVI switch.

mskreis.................Yes I am using the original loader since the latest updates (the 2 disk version), and although the load speed is much slower (the seek time) I have found that there have been few problems.

I went back to the original D1 configuration as a test of the latest firmware, which I feel was successful (perhaps I'm just lucky:D ), considering why I started this thread.
I still am ready to reinstall the Toshiba if I start having any appreciable problems with the Fuss Audio Loader.

John

Kevin

Correct the power supply and you'll correct your eject problem. The Bravo supply has a voltage drop. When happens (eject function) the dvd drive re-sets itself. Upgrade the power supply to a ATX and you'll be fine.

Did you convert the Toshiba to region 1 in your pc? It needs to be set prior to installation.

Alan

Alan,

I did not set the Toshiba to region 1. I was guessing that it would have shipped as such. I will install it in a PC, set it and try again.

I was thinking of replacing the power supply anyway. I'll try it if the region set fix works.

Thanks for the advise.

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson

Then I tried loading DVE. It wouldn't play. It appears to load and the counter starts but no image or sound. I tried swapping cables and even tried using the power supply from the D1 but no luck. I hooked up the old loader and it plays fine.


I had the same problem with DVE. I have the LiteOn loader installed.

Another AVS member who had the same encounter suggested a remedy that worked.

Put in a DVD that you know plays for sure. Once it starts playing, stop it. Eject the DVD. Put DVE into the drive (WITHOUT turning off power). Now DVE should play faultlessly.

Ever since I tried this successfully, DVE has played flawlessly on my D1.

Good Luck. Hope it works for you.

Thanks Manendra. Weird solution, but I'll give it a try.

Alan is there a way for me to determine if the power supply in my D1 is problematic? I still have 2 weeks to decide if I want to RMA/return the D1. I don't mind sacrificing my Toshiba 1502 as it was just collecting dust but I feel that any other expense (to me) is inappropriate.

So far not a single glitch with the 1502 loader (after about 12 discs).

Thanks

I installed the Toshiba loader in a PC and set it to region 1. Hooked it back to the D1. Same problem... won't play DVE. Tried other commercial DVDs and had other problems as well (freezing).

So, the D1 with the stock loader doesn't like my burned DVD-Rs (the main incentive for trying a loader swap). With the Toshiba loader, it plays my DVD-Rs but now commercial DVDs are problems. So... I'm back to the Fuss loader (I have many more commercial DVDs then home made).

My summary opinion is that when it works, the D1 provides a spectacular image... too bad its basically a POS. When Pioneer and Toshiba release their HDMI enabled players, the D1 will be on eBay.

mskreis,

With the D2s being so close, I personally would not keep a D1. It is very fussy and is never 100% stable. I would say return it and get a D2 or other brand player.

I would get the D2 except i still have NO concrete answer as to whether its HDCP or not.. I think I will hold on any more money into this thing until that time..

ARFF

I asked Vinc directly and they told me it definitely would be HDCP compliant. I currently own a D1. I was hoping to return it for a D2 (I am still within my 30 day return period).

Rob

Rich, that was my initial plan but now that I've seen the beautiful 720p image I don't want to part with it. I know the D2 is around the corner but the corner keeps moving farther away! I'm now hearing March for a tentative release but past performance suggests otherwise.

mskreis

You'll know because you will start to have reading problems. Some complain about black video with skipping audio , others like myself had problems with cd playback, plus a host of other issues. If you don't notice any of these problems consider yourself lucky. If you do experience any of these problems then you know the power supply is not up to snuff. I will be offering a ac regulator board Feb 1 for those who would like to convert to a ATX style power supply.


Kevin

Your having a power supply issue.


Rich

Are you having problems? The ac regulator board with a ATX will fix everything. I'm trying to price the board out to be fairly reasonable. I'll have a number sometime next week.


Regards
Alan

Kevin..............I have conducted extensive testing with the aftermarket Loaders and found that if you are using the latest revision Firmware (the 2 disk; "Servo & MPEG4 ver. 1.0.0.6") that is presently shipping with current D1's, the unit may perform very poorly. You will have to revert to the previous 1.0.0.5 Firmware available at the V,inc. website.
You may want to order the 2 disk Firmware from V,inc. (must ship from them) encase you want to go back to that version later.

John

I also updated my D1 using a external cd drive case with it's own power supply, a Memorex DVD drive, and a ATA 33 flat ribbon cable. So far it's played everything I've thrown at it, including DVE, without locking up or skipping chapters. I'm running the 1005 firmware and I set region 1 before I connected it to the D1. I'm still early in my testing, but I've played all commercial cd's and dvd's. I don't think the drive I got will support MP3's but I'm also going to give it a shot. Thanks for all the info guys!

Originally posted by jrannison
Kevin..............I have conducted extensive testing with the aftermarket Loaders and found that if you are using the latest revision Firmware (the 2 disk; "Servo & MPEG4 ver. 1.0.0.6") that is presently shipping with current D1's, the unit may perform very poorly. You will have to revert to the previous 1.0.0.5 Firmware available at the V,inc. website.
You may want to order the 2 disk Firmware from V,inc. (must ship from them) encase you want to go back to that version later.

John

Ah... Thanks John. That would explain my issues verses the good experiences others have had with loader swaps. My D1 is a recent vintage (received in December) and I suspect it has the latest firmware (which would explain why it works reasonably well in comparison to the experience of others.

I'm debating weather its worth pursuing loading the old firmware and using the Toshiba loader or just leaving well enough alone until the "mainstream" players become available.

I'm starting a new chat room over at yahoo for our products. You are all welcome to join in for Bravo tips and diy projects.

Alan

Originally posted by Kevin Johnson
Ah... Thanks John. That would explain my issues verses the good experiences others have had with loader swaps. My D1 is a recent vintage (received in December) and I suspect it has the latest firmware (which would explain why it works reasonably well in comparison to the experience of others.

I'm debating weather its worth pursuing loading the old firmware and using the Toshiba loader or just leaving well enough alone until the "mainstream" players become available.

Boy, the player performance variability appears extreme. I also received my D1 in December and only 1 or 2 discs have played correctly. Since installing the 1502 I haven't had a single problem. Based on this thread I also threw in DVE last nght and it played fine.

Originally posted by Chili Minora
I'm starting a new chat room over at yahoo for our products.
Alan
got a link?

For right now I can be reached via yahoo messenger until I get the board set up.

Alan

Has anyone noticed interference problems caused by other components? We have had reported cases of remote code problems between a/v components. Example...if you raise and lower the sound on the tv the dvd player will skip a chapter up and down. I have also repeated the problem with multiple different manufacture IR commands and the D1.

Alan

The IR code from the D1 has caused other Mfg. equipment to operate. I'm sure the converse can also be true.
Unlike Domain names being assigned to Web sites, IR codes are assigned by "Whim"

Alan, when I press the Menu button on my projector (SX21) it causes the Bravo to skip forward a chapter.

John, so far I'm 12 for 12 with the remotes. I have tried pioneer, sony, ead, and panasonic.

Alan

I think Vinc needs to come up with a fix for this problem. I'm not even going to deal with it....I'm going to install UHF kits as a alternative.

Alan

Can you tell me what a UHF remote kit is? Where to get one? I can't use my receiver remote at all because of the shared remote codes.

Thanks.

Steve

An MX-800 can work around this problem.

Since this thread is supposed to be about loader replacement. :D Would anyone be interested an a Lite-On 166? I have one that I had in my D1 before I sold it so right now it has the front face and tray face removed and has the volume control removed and the headphone jack shaved flush. I would let it go for like $20 shipped if someone wants it. I have the face and tray plates that I will include with the drive but don't have the original packaging.

Has anyone put a new loader in the D1s with the new drive. I sent my first one with the Fuss loader back for locking up and just got a replacement last night. It has a different loader(EPD I believe) in it. Unfortunately it is worse than the one with the Fuss that I had before. I assume it has new firmware loaded(1.0.0.6). Do the Liteon and Toshiba loaders work with DVD-R and DVD+R . Seems like I saw somewhere that replacement loaders have problems with 1.0.0.6 and you have to go back to 1.0.0.5 for them to work correctly. Does anyone know for sure if this is true.Thanks

Rokanije,
I just received my replacement D1 also (after a 5 week wait). Mine also appears to have a new brand of loader. So far, it appears to work better than my original ever did. Quicker menu access after inserting a disc, and quicker response to remote commands (FF, chapter skip etc.) I have only put 2 DVDs in it so far though. What problems are you experiencing? I've decided if I have any problems at all with this one, I'm going to ask for a refund and buy something else.
Wade

wadesc
I have some DVD-Rs and DVD+Rs that I recorded on a Plextor 708a.Only one would freeze during the end of the movie with the old Bravo.Now with the new one 3 of them freeze up in multiple places. If there is the slightest finger print on them it will freeze.As a matter of fact when I unpacked it last night I noticed something rattling around inside so I took the cover off and there was a small brass or copper piece about 1in long and 1/2in wide and has 2 L shaped tabs on it that I can't figure out where it goes. I'm at the point of do I send it back again and lose more $ for shipping or do I buy another loader for 35$ and hope it fixes my problem. The sad part is that the DVDs I record work on a cheapy APEX player. I'd hate to buy a new loader to find out it is not compatable with either -Rs or +Rs.

Hi

We have begun reversing the firmware in Sigma based players and are releasing it under GPL.
The purpose of this is to gain information (no documentation is as good as C source =) that
allow us to write our own opensource firmware for all EM85xx players.

This is what we have done so far:

fipmodule.o: (source: user.it.uu.se/~alse7905/EM85xxDVD/fipmodule.tar.gz)
We reversed the KiSS version. It only differs on ONE asm instruction from the original. Porting
this one to Bravo should be an easy hack. Unfortunately we cannot do this because none of
the current developers (me Albert Seward, and Erik Thyrén) own a Bravo player.

kiss_khwl.o: (source: user.it.uu.se/~alse7905/EM85xxDVD/kiss_khwl.tar.gz)
This is the e2prom and i2c driver for KiSS players. I think the e2prom chip in Bravo players is
the same as in the KiSS. Except the dead code, this driver compiles to exactly the same asm
as the original.

kiss_ipc.o: (source: user.it.uu.se/~alse7905/EM85xxDVD/kiss_ipc.tar.gz)
Some (stupid) Inter Process Communication made by KiSS.
This driver compiles to exactly the same asm as the original.

bootloader.bin: (Source probably released under the of april 2004)
Now we are working on reversing the bootloader. It is ~90% done. Only some work is left on
inflate and some ide stuff is left. This is very similar to the one in Bravo.

mkisofs-sigma-patch.diff: (source: user.it.uu.se/~alse7905/EM85xxDVD/mkisofs-sigma-patch.diff)
Patch for mkisofs. Makes it possible to create kiss bootable images under linux

...and some other sources and tool are found at our homepage at:
user.it.uu.se/~alse7905/EM85xxDVD/
Please spread this link. We really need developers helping us reversing khwl.o

After that. We have all we need for creating our united opensource firmware! Please, join us in the effort.

Albert Seward
Erik Thyrén

Originally posted by abbe

We have begun reversing the firmware in Sigma based players and are releasing it under GPL.
The purpose of this is to gain information (no documentation is as good as C source =) that
allow us to write our own opensource firmware for all EM85xx players.


This is excellent news, hopefully the Momitsu V880(Brainwave V880 in Europe) will be included in this project.

Originally posted by abbe
Hi

We have begun reversing the firmware in Sigma based players and are releasing it under GPL.
The purpose of this is to gain information (no documentation is as good as C source =) that
allow us to write our own opensource firmware for all EM85xx players.

After that. We have all we need for creating our united opensource firmware! Please, join us in the effort.

Albert Seward
Erik Thyrén

I would like to join but don't understand what you are doing:) I own a finicky bravo and I hope what you are doing will help us with this unit.

Abbe,
I'm glad to see you guys here in this forum. I've followed your progress in the KiSS forums (gooddvdstuff.com) for awhile. There are some of us here with the Cosmic clones (co-108 and co-301 are the most prevalent) that would also surely benefit from your work.

I think a goal would be to expose more of the options currently hardwired (actually set in firmware) that could improve pq. I do not have access to details of the development kit as to what options are available. does anyone have such information?

thanks and keep up the good work.

jeff

I had replaced my loader with a Toshiba DVD-ROM. It did flawlessly at first. Now, half the DVDs I put into it don't even load. It says LOADING for about a minute then indicates NO CD.

Once a DVD does load, it works flawlessly....

I have changed nothing. All DVD used to load. Any ideas???

I had replaced my loader with a Toshiba DVD-ROM. It did flawlessly at first. Now, half the DVDs I put into it don't even load. It says LOADING for about a minute then indicates NO CD.
Once a DVD does load, it works flawlessly....

I have changed nothing. All DVD used to load. Any ideas???

About my above post.....

Would this be a problem with the loader or the "other" internals - or both?

If I take one of my DVDs and back it up on a DVD+R, it loads fine.

I bought a DVD/CD cleaning disk, but that was a waste of money.....it changed nothing at all.....

If I do buy a new loader, which one should I get? There is alot of info on this board with different opinions.......any new ideas as to which loader works the best?

Adam

My experience has been similar. I went with a Toshiba loader and initially thought that all my problems were resolved. Then I started having frequent loading problems almost as bad if not worse than with the original loader. Lately I've had no problems with discs loading correctly. It makes no sense.

How about the weather?

Seriously, I think the D1 is sensitive to temperature. Mine always works flawlessly in colder temps, occasional minor glitches when warmer. Batch 2 with original loader, original customizable firmware download.

BB

Wow - just spent a few hours reading through this entire thread. Great info guys - thanks! A few questions...

I bought one of the original D1's and up until recently never had much of a problem at all. For example it never refused to load any disc and only on a few rare occassions locked up.

However recently my D1 started freezing for a few seconds, then skipping ahead to the next chapter. This is happening with almost every disc I watch - and interestingly only seems to happen towards the end of the movies.

I tried canned air and DVD lens cleaners but it hasn't help. Am I correct to assume that my problem will be solved if I replace the loader? At this point I am looking to make the minimal investment in the D1 to hold me over a few months until other players such as the Samsung 941 come out. After all these quality issues I will not buy another V inc product.

So in summary, with the benefit of hindsight, sounds like most DVD-ROMs on the market will work? Also what are the steps in setting regions in your PC - hazy on that. Thanks!

In the next couple hours I'm going to take a trip up to Circuit City and pick up the Lite-On SOHD167T 16x internal DVD-ROM. Think that drive will work ok?

Before swapping it out I may just try cleaning the lens once I have the D1 apart. Can anyone tell me if I'll be able to access the lens directly once I have the unit apart, or will I need to take the drive apart to get at the lens? Any tips for what to clean it with?

Also my DVI connector on the unit I think could use replacing. Is that easy to do, or does it involve lots of soldering?

OK, have the LiteOn 167T on hand. As I understand from these pages I have to put it into my PC first and initialize the region code to 1. But no where can I find HOW to do this. Can someone please let me know the specific steps to follow once installed in the PC to set the region code?

Simply fix the LiteOn to your PC and play a region 1 DVD. That's all there is to it.

Deathwind constructed a site (http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html) dedicated to loader replacement in the Bravo D1.

The following instructions are taken from that site.



Step-by-step instructions for performing a loader swap by JasonATL. Instructions are specific for the Sony, but should generally apply to and work with most other loaders:

1. Open PC and connect IDE and power supply cables to the Sony loader. Install included software PowerDVD. Load a Region 1 DVD and set the Sony loaders region to Region 1. This takes all of 5 minutes.
2. Disconnect Bravo D1 from power. Remove D1 case top by removing 8 screws (all phillips head).
3. Remove 4 screws that mount Fuss loader to D1 case. Remove Fuss loader from its position, but leave cables connected.
4. Restore power and "Eject" loader tray (so that the tray is open). Disconnect power.
5. Remove IDE and power cables from Fuss loader and reconnect them to Sony loader.
6. Restore power and "Eject" Sony loader tray (so that the tray is open). Disconnect power.
7. Swap loader tray faceplates (a simple snap-off and snap-on procedure). On the Sony loader, also remove faceplate that covers eject button (the faceplate on the loader -- not the loader tray).
8. Remove front "tabs" from Sony loader tray (the ones used to keep discs in the tray when mounted vertically). I shaved them off with a utility knife. Be careful not to get debris inside the loader and don't scar the tray surface (so as not to scratch discs).
9. Restore power. "Eject" again to restore tray within loader (so that the tray is closed). Disconnect power.
10. Remove steel plate inside D1 case around tray opening (remove 2 screws). This will allow loader tray front to get closer flush.
11. Determine proper "shim" height for Sony loader. This is trial and error. The trial part is pushing the "Eject" button to see if tray will open unobstructed. The error part is when it doesn't. Without shims, the Sony loader sits too low. For the front shims, I used 6 layers of thick-stock paper scraps. I "connected" the shim to the D1 case with electrical tape. For the rear shims, I used industrial strength Velcro (this serves to both shim and "connect" the loader to the D1 case).
12. Test. Replace case top. Restore power.
13. Enjoy the D1's spectacular picture without having to worry about it locking up.




Hope this helps. Please visit the website for more detailed info.

Seems as though interest in this thread is quite low (guess I was late to the party with my original D1 loader lasting well over a year), but wanted to report back my findings in case its helpful to someone that comes across this.

I replaced my loader with the Lite On SOHD-167T and watched a movie straight through with no skips or freezes for the first time in over a month (since my original loader started crapping out).

The only oddity I've seen is that after installing this loader in the D1 and trying it for the very first time, it froze trying to load the DVD - just was stuck. I hit stop and it came out of it. Tried again and it worked. I've now loaded about 20 different movies just as tests to see if they would start up OK and all worked well and haven't seen this problem since.

All in all I found this a rather fun experiment. I couldn't have done it without all the great contributions in this thread - so thanks guys!

Originally posted by lovingdvd

The only oddity I've seen is that after installing this loader in the D1 and trying it for the very first time, it froze trying to load the DVD - just was stuck. I hit stop and it came out of it. Tried again and it worked. I've now loaded about 20 different movies just as tests to see if they would start up OK and all worked well and haven't seen this problem since.


Glad to hear it all worked out well for you. I have the LiteOn 166 loader and experience occasional load-up problems like the one you mentioned. Whenever it happens (quite rare) I simply insert a DVD that I know would DEFINITELY play. In my case this DVD is Ben Hur. Then, once the Ben Hur Menu comes, I eject it and insert the "troublesome" DVD. Like a prayer, this method has always worked. I leant of this method from another poster who had a similar problem.

Enjoy the perks of your new loader.

Success with Lite-On 166S loader in D1.

I had to download the latest firmware for the loader to make it work.

It is working well, but has refused to play one of the 10 differenct disks that I have watched since installing it. That disk plays fine in my Panny XP30. Three of the other disks that it has played fine were Netflix rentals, which are always covered with fine scratches and caused the original Fuss loader fits. I will try MPedris's trick with the disk.

Glenn

Originally posted by glenned
Success with Lite-On 166S loader in D1.

I had to download the latest firmware for the loader to make it work.



What would happen prior to the firmware update? Freezes? No load, etc?


It is working well, but has refused to play one of the 10 differenct disks that I have watched since installing it. That disk plays fine in my Panny XP30. Three of the other disks that it has played fine were Netflix rentals, which are always covered with fine scratches and caused the original Fuss loader fits. I will try MPedris's trick with the disk.

Glenn

What happens when you try to play that disk?

BTW - out of curiosity what types of problems were you having exactly that led to you replace the loader?

Originally posted by lovingdvd
What would happen prior to the firmware update? Freezes? No load, etc?

What happens when you try to play that disk?

BTW - out of curiosity what types of problems were you having exactly that led to you replace the loader?

The loader was given to me by a friend who had intended to use in a Momitsu v880. He had flashed the loader with a region free firmware that is recommended for the Momitsu. Because his stock Momitsu loader is working perfectly, he changed his mind and gave the Lite-On loader to me.

In my D1, the Lite-On loader would only play the FBI warning at the beginning of a DVD and no other content.

I reflashed the loader, and now it plays the whole DVD.

It won't load my copy of Last Samurai. The player freezes before there is any image on the screen. Cleaning the DVD doesn't fix it.

My first D1 would lock up in the middle of movies occasionaly. I replaced it under warranty. The new one did not lock up, but every DVD, even brand new ones, had to be meticulously scrubbed to play. After a couple of months, the tray would not stay open when sending the "Open" command. It would open for about a second, and then close on its own every time.

Glenn

So are you region free now? I figured I was giving up the region free feature of the D1 when I put the Lite-On loader in my PC and initialized it to Region 1. Am I right that is the case now? Doesn't matter to me however since I only ever watch Region 1 DVDs.

Hi

I am completely lost on the topic on this thread, why are you guy's using loader? what's the problem?? Also is the firmware for the D1 what is it suppose to fix, is it worth it to download and install.

I am a lost soul on this topic. :confused:

Originally posted by lovingdvd
So are you region free now? I figured I was giving up the region free feature of the D1 when I put the Lite-On loader in my PC and initialized it to Region 1. Am I right that is the case now? Doesn't matter to me however since I only ever watch Region 1 DVDs.

Region Free doesn't matter to me either. I used the latest firmware from the manufacturers website, so it isn't region free. There is certainly a region free hacked firmware for the D1 available somewhere, but I didn't research this because I didn't want this. My friend said that there are a few disks (Spiderman being one that he mentioned) that won't play reliably on region free players, so I didn't want to play around with it.

Zapper,
The Fuss brand of loaders which used to be used in the D1 had a high rate of problems. Many AVS'rs have replaced them with other brands of loaders.

Glenn

What do You mean by loader, is it the disc tray???

Thanks

Ralph

As I understand it, "loader" is the term used to refer to the DVD-ROM unit. So when we are talking about replacing the "loader" we are referring to replacing the DVD-ROM instead of the D1 case with a new one. I know it can be confusing because its an odd term to use - it does make you think that its more like the tray or a piece of the DVD-ROM drive, but its really the entire drive. It'll take a good hour or more, but you may want to read through all pages within this thread - lots of good info and I think this has been covered in there, somewhere.

Hi! My D1 is locking-up fairly often now so I am thinking of replacing the loader. ---- Do you have to update the firm ware to replace the loader? This is where I am lost. I don't even know how to get the firmware to a CD. I have downloaded it to a zip disk. I really need to replace my loader or buy a new unit. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Pixlar

I recommend you take an hour or two and read through these 20 some pages of posts. That is what I did and it provided sufficient information for me to replace the loader.

this link may have been on previously:

http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html

I have a Bravo D1 and have always had problems with the
Fast Forward or Reverse always skipping 1 minute or even jumping all over the place when I play MPEG-4 Disks

Forgive my confusion here but will changing out the Drive thats in there fix this problem ?

Or is there something else I need to do to fix this ?

It is really getting frustrating you can never get back to where you were watching if you accidental hit the FWD or the REV Button.
If anyone knows the fix for this I would appreciate it

Thanks
Steve

Originally posted by stevekelso
I have a Bravo D1 and have always had problems with the
Fast Forward or Reverse always skipping 1 minute or even jumping all over the place when I play MPEG-4 Disks I doubt this is drive related, but from the different data rates of MPEG-4 and DVD. Try using the SEARCH button on the remote to change place in the video.

SO what your telling me is,
No one else's does this jumping ahead and back 1 Minuit thing using MPEG4
Video Disks?

Do you think it could be a defective unit?


Thanks

Steve

No the loader is fine, I just think it is how the processor is trying to FF, etc. on MPEG-4 content.

Does anyone else have that problem ?

I tried the Search and it just clears the #s when I hit enter.

I would really like to know if anyone else is having this same issue
or is it just my unit.

I'm burning the disks in the ISO Format?
Maybe there is a better format ?

Steve

Another D1 brought back to life!

I followed the directions found in this thread and swapped out the original Fuss loader for a Liteon DVD drive...the newer SOHD167T model.

I was able to watch Star Wars ANH which would not play with the Fuss.
Prior to replacing the loader I upgraded the D1 firmware to the 05 version from the Vinc website. DVD's load faster and chapter skipping is very fast. It's a little noisy at startup but settles down to inaudible when the movie starts. So far so good....well worth the effort.

Vinc had offered to sell me the loader they now use in the D2 for $40 plus shipping. I had already bought the Liteon so I went with it.

Here are the general instructions from this forum again ...

1. Open PC and connect IDE and power supply cables to the New loader. Install included software PowerDVD. Load a Region 1 DVD and set the New loader’s region to Region 1. This takes all of 5 minutes.

2. Disconnect Bravo D1 from power. Remove D1 case top by removing 8 screws (all phillips head).

3. Remove 4 screws that mount Fuss loader to D1 case. Remove Fuss loader from its position, but leave cables connected.

4. Restore power and "Eject" loader tray (so that the tray is open). Disconnect power.

5. Remove IDE and power cables from Fuss loader and reconnect them to New loader. Extend the original power cable if desired as it’s pretty short.

6. Restore power and "Eject" New loader tray (so that the tray is open). Disconnect power.

7. Swap loader tray faceplates (a simple snap-off and snap-on procedure). On the New loader, also remove faceplate that covers eject button (the faceplate on the loader -- not the loader tray) if you feel that will help get the new loader flush so that when the tray is closed the tray is flush with the outside like a factory job. EDIT: Remove it for a near flush fit with the SOHD167T.

8. Restore power. "Eject" again to restore tray within loader (so that the tray is closed). Disconnect power.

9. Remove steel plate inside D1 case around tray opening (remove 2 screws). This will allow loader tray front to get even closer to flush if required. EDIT: Remove it for a near flush fit with the SOHD167T.

10. Determine proper "shim" height for New loader. This is trial and error. The trial part is pushing the "Eject" button to see if tray will open unobstructed. The error part is when it doesn't. Fix the new loader to the case using some method like Velcro so it can be removed later if needed. EDIT: Using velcro to fix the loader to the screw points where the Fuss loader was attached brought the loader exactly to the right height to allow the tray to open and close....no shims required!

11. Test. Replace case top. Restore power.

12. Enjoy the D1's spectacular picture without having to worry about it locking up. EDIT: The first time an attempt is made to play a DVD with the new loader, it will not work. A stop, open, and close fixes the problem. Don't know why...perhaps the Bravo firmware needs to familiarize itself with the new loader?

Originally posted by mrmucko
Another D1 brought back to life!

.......Prior to replacing the loader I upgraded the D1 firmware to the 05 version from the Vinc website. DVD's load faster and chapter skipping is very fast. It's a little noisy at startup but settles down to inaudible when the movie starts. So far so good....well worth the effort.

Not sure which one I have as mine is a replacement unit from early this year. What is link to 05 firmware ?

Instructions...

http://www.vinc.com/download/0805%20Firmware%20Flash%20Instructions.doc

Firmware..

http://www.vinc.com/download/v-07-08-03.iso

For those that are using the Lite-On 166S and find it a little loud, a "slowed down" version of firmware DS1C is available here (http://codeguys.rpc1.org/firmwares.html) . It reduces CD read speed from 48X to 36X and DVD read speed from 16X to 12X.

I flashed the 166S on my Momitsu V880 and it is noticably quieter.

The region free patch had to be reapplied after flashing.

a quick thanks to all who described the loader swap. just bought a DVD rw for my pc (wow, they are cheap!), and decided to put my ol Toshiba DVD into the Bravo. what a difference!

thanks again guys.

frank

Hey, all of you who replaced the loader. How does that effect the ability to change regions with the right=down=left=up=center=1 code? If the loader you put in was installed in a PC and locked to region 1, can you play region 2 DVDs?

Tony

I installed a Lite-On loader last summer after locking in Region 1 with my PC. Last week I used the procedure to go Region 0 on the D1 (with no changes to the Lite-On loader) and have had no problems playing Region 2 PAL dvds since.

Bob

Just replaced drive (Loader) on my bRavo D1. I used an L&H drive, I think is what it was. It was actually a DVD+CDRW, but I had an extra so I used it. I used a couple peices of thick paper to hold it in the place I wanted it, I jammed them between the loader tray and the housing so it was a snug fit, and then positioned the drive exactly were I wanted it. Then, I mixed up some epoxy and globbed it around the four rises in the base and gooped ip up along the side of the drive. It's in there *REAL* good now!

It seems better (but is slightly louder, especially when you first put the disc in). Discs that had problems before seem to come right up this time. Occasionally my player would skip when you first put a disc in (like pressing the FFWD on a CD player "eh - ah - eh - spi ") and you would have to eject and reload the disc. This happened last night after the change so it didn't fix that.

NOTE:

After following this procedure, I was NOT able to play region 2 donnie darko. The intro screen would come up, and then the "metrodome" title screen, and then just blackness. I hooked the FUSS back up, and it did play.

However, there was so much judder I don't know why anyone would want to watch a region2 dvd being displayed at US1080i

Also, the DVD was an LG gcc-4320b. Has anyone put in a new drive without locking in a region on the computer first?

Tony

Just replaced my ailing Fuss Audio loader today with a practically new Memorex 16x DVD-ROM I had in my PC briefly last year (then swapped it for a second DVD burner). My Bravo is now operating like a totally different machine (fast!), and so far has played everything I've thrown at it... including all the discs the stock loader was having real problems with. So, it looks like I may get to keep the DVI picture quality I've enjoyed with the Bravo D1, with hopefully better reliability and functionality.

Oh, yes... and thanks to all who put together the info in this awesome thread!

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the good info. I just replaced the fuss loader with on old Pioneer DVD-105S slot loader. So far it is working great. Hope it lasts until HD DVD.

My fuss has bit the dust.What would be the cheapest and easiest solution.Is there a consensus best replacement loader for the d1?

Just tried a btc dvd-rom I got from Fry's for $19.95.All the commands work(open,close) and the splash screen comes up,but no video from the drive at all.I also tried one of my dvd-roms from one of my older computers,that one works but is as glitchy as the fuss loader.I found a Toshiba 1502.I will try that when it comes in.

IIRC, most folks, myself included, used the Liteon 166S. Mine's been working well all this time, except for a few times when the video doesn't show up but the sound does. The procedure to remedy that is outlined in several posts on this thread. I would strongly suggest a Liteon if nothing else works.

Just revived a dead D1. Fantastic! Only problem I couldn't follow the directions because the fuss loader would not eject. It just boots, says Hello, and then sits at "loading" forever, with no response to any controls.

So basically I just switched loaders with no rhyme or reason. I used an old Hitachi DVD rom I had laying around. I left the jumper on master, hooked it up and it actually loads dvds. Plus it is faster, I can't comment on the noise factor until I mount the drive permanently.

I've been using my "born again" D1 for hours every day since I replaced the loader and had the power supply repaired... so far, so good. Still working great, and loads and responds much faster than it ever did, even when it was new.

Originally posted by gshelley61
I've been using my "born again" D1 for hours every day since I replaced the loader and had the power supply repaired...

Why? What happened to the power supply?

And, just for kicks, I switched loaders again, twice. Using a newer sony DVD-RW, and it worked flawlessly. Then again with a LG DVD rom, again it worked flawlessly. Seems as long as the drive has been initialized on a PC, you can just swap out loaders at will. At least on my D1.

Originally posted by mpedris
Why? What happened to the power supply?

After a couple of years of daily use, a power supply capacitor gave out. V, Inc. repaired my power supply board for $40.

I just ordered a new power board for $30 plus shipping from VInc. I'm trusting this fix along with the replacement tray (for shorter seek time if nothing else) will result in a player that finally works as advertised. My Lite-On 167 currently shows only black after the splash screen and I assume this is power-supply related. If all goes well, the new board and the utility to slow down the 167 (thanks, satgeek) will do the job, finally.

This thread is a great example of perseverance if ever I saw one.

Dan

Not being happy with any of the new DVD players on the market, I took the plunge and replaced the loader on my D1 with the Lite-On 167. All I can say is I should have done it sooner. Gone are all the feeze-ups I would have on disks, particularly on the second layer of the disk. If it keeps working this way, I will be able to put off buying a new player until they get the kinks worked out of them.

-Gary.

That duke site is dead...
Has anyone else hosted it?

Has anyone tried a toshiba sd-m1912 DVD-ROM drive?

Thanks,
jeff

Hey Gary
Is this the new Loader you used?
http://www.bzboyz.com/store/product4162.html

Please let me know the drive that is i there is making me crazy~!!

Thanks
Steve

Is there any advantage to using the upgraded Vinc D2 loader over the Lite on? The Vinc loader is double the cost.

how do you read the existing firmware version on these units?

All I'm seeing are questions. Come on momitsu/bravo owners... help us out. Did anyone make a copy of Deathwind's table of loaders and how they worked out?

jeff

I have a D2. The loader worked OK, but not great. I replaced it with a LiteOn and it worked much better. It played some of my DVDR's that the D2 wouldn't play and it fixed a problem with avi cd's were it would go back to the beginning of the disk after I paused it. So as to the question posted as to whether to get the D2 loader or the LiteOn, get the LiteOn.

Well I guess that was a little Closer to answering my earlier question
is this the Lite on that will work ?

http://www.bzboyz.com/store/product4162.html

Or does someone have a link to a try-ed and true one that works?


Thanks

Oh well. I had already gone ahead and ordered the D2 loader for my d1. $52 shipped compared to $25 shipped for the lite-on 167T. Oops.

stevekelso,
that one, the lite-on 167, will work as will the 166. There used to be a site put up by Deathwind that listed a bunch and peoples success, but it's gone. That price is high though, you should be able to get the 167 for about $30 (plus shipping and/or tax). Note that the 167 is also rebadged as a sony 1613 I think. Look HERE (http://www.topmicrousa.com/sony16xdvd.html) for example,as the first google.com hit. Just shop around. I'm going to get the sony locally for under $30 with powerdvd.

Best,
jeff

Thanks greeno
I have a D1 and its making me crazy!
Last question I am new to this is it simply just changing out the
DVD drive? I know both will have to be disassembled to just the guts
But is that it or is there a Special way it has to be changed ?

Is there a link on here somewhere with instructions how to do it?
The search here kind a sucks.

Thanks
Steve

stevekelso,
Page back one page on this thread to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4429654#post4429654) . If you read back through the thread, I think some found they didn't need to initialize the drive.

In my case, dreamx-108 not d1, my original loader is region-free, so I will be setting it to region free, not that I really need that capability, but it's nice to re-build it that way it was.

Best,
jeff

Hi,

Thanks to every one who has contributed to this thread. I have had my D1 for almost 1.5 years now, after so many problems with D1, I decided to jump in and I am glad I did.

I installed Lite-On's 167 ( CC $37.00 ) per the great instructions given by several here and the thing is working great.

KE

I was successful in installing an initialized 167 but only after I replaced the power board through VInc. It's been noted earlier in this thread that the power needed for initialization of the loader can be insufficient with the original board if it's on its way toward failing. The Lite-On's a bit noisier than the Fuss but acceptable.

I still get occasional lockup requiring disconnection of the DVI cord, that carries current to the player from my DTronics switcher, as part of the hard reboot. I guess this small current is too much for the sensitive electronics of the D1.

Dan

Originally posted by drapp1952
I was successful in installing an initialized 167 but only after I replaced the power board through VInc. It's been noted earlier in this thread that the power needed for initialization of the loader can be insufficient with the original board if it's on its way toward failing. The Lite-On's a bit noisier than the Fuss but acceptable.

I still get occasional lockup requiring disconnection of the DVI cord, that carries current to the player from my DTronics switcher, as part of the hard reboot. I guess this small current is too much for the sensitive electronics of the D1.

Dan Do you need that power pin to the D1?

Jim, I appreciate your interest. However, and excuse me if I've missed it somewhere in this thread, I don't know what the "power pin" is. I did the power board swapout from VInc as I mentioned and the Lite-On is working well. Fortunately, over the past several uses I haven't had the lockup I had at first and I hope it stays that way because I haven't had luck so far in finding another player at the D1's price range that puts out the PQ it does.

Dan

Dan,

Like you I tried several other DVD players with DVI and HDMI, non of them were any close to Bravo in PQ. That is when I ventured into changing the loader. So for I am happy with Liteon.

KE

more input on loaders.

I installed a Hitachi-made reader from my Dell PC. It fit very well, and only needed double-sided tape to hold it in place. It was quite loud, though.

So, I picked up, used, a Plextor PX-712A. This DVD burner has 8MB buffer memory. It went in "okay" - needed a bit of coaxing. I had to raise the back up a good 1/2" to get the loader tray to work effectively. And, the drive tray needed a little Dremel work to get the Bravo faceplate to fit.

Now, it's gluing in as we speak. Here's the first impressions.

1. It's SILENT. I've never seen a drive this quiet. I was convinced it wasn't spinning up, but sure enough, it started playing.
2. It's not quite as fast on the initial disc access as the Dell. That thing was playing within 4 seconds, this one takes 8 or so. Still faster than the original Fuss, and acceptable, but a little downer after seeing the Dell go like lightning.

The goal with this second replacement is to test out if a 8MB memory buffer will eliminate the layer change. I'm hoping so. We'll see tomorrow, after the glue sets and I can get it running.

This thread was super helpful. Thanks to everyone, and here's to hoping I now have a working, silent, layer change free D1.

Ok Heres where I'm at
Picked up the Lite-on SOHD167T Popped it in the PC set the region code. took off the face plate works GREAT FAST but heres the problem
Man Is It LOUD!
Please Please tell me how to slow it down and make it a bit quieter?

I'm so Close!

Thanks
Steve

Steve, you have the option of changing the firmware to slow the drive down. That firmware can be found here. (http://codeguys.rpc1.org/firmwares.html)

The 167 does start out quite loud but once the initial loading occurs it does slow and quiet down.

Dan

Thanks so much Dan that worked Great its much better!

Steve

Originally posted by drapp1952
Jim, I did the power board swapout from VInc as I mentioned and the Lite-On is working well. Fortunately, over the past several uses I haven't had the lockup I had at first and I hope it stays that way because I haven't had luck so far in finding another player at the D1's price range that puts out the PQ it does.

Dan

Have you looked at the Oppo ($200)? I was very frustrated with the D1 loader and then by the time I pondered replacing it the power supply went out. The Oppo has worked flawlessly, amazing PQ that may be better than my D1, and blazing fast response time for those non-hackers contemplating a switch. See the extensive discussion thread in this forum.

-C

This is just a status report and a comment to possibly address a couple of observations by D1 users who've had trouble getting their new loader to work.

Somewhere in this thread are comments about how the power supply, which is prone to problems, should be replaced in order to work with some new loader trays. This is what I found after I put my initialized Lite-On loader in my D1 with the old power supply board. The splash screen would come on with "DVD" indicated, but the movie wouldn't play - only black appeared on screen with no sound. After I installed a new power board from VInc. the player worked, and has generally continued to do so, without incident. Now, it will very occasionally lock up but simply pressing the power button to reboot will work. So far.

Dan

How much are they charging for the new power board?

BB

Brandon, the board costs $30.

Dan

Can the board be purchased online? Or must I make a call?

What exactly is it called? "D1 Power Supply Board" ?

I called the number on this page

http://www.vinc.com/support/index.asp

and asked for a replacement power board for the D1. The CSR knew immediately what I was talking about.

Dan

Thanks, Dan. I'll try that out. I don't need one right away, but no harm is having one in stock just in case.

BTW, is the replacement process a difficult one? Or is it straightforward?

Hay thanks for all the great help and information. I thought I was going to have to trash my D1. Now I can take back the $200 Samsung HD player!

I started to have some issue with my first D1 player; It started freezing on boot, wouldn’t read some DVD’s and was choppy on play back. I was like 2 week away to the end of my warranty so I started a RMA. They charged me $30 and sent me another used D1 and about after 3 moths this one stated to work even worst than my original :mad: . This one stated making loud noises and again choppy video and freezing in the middle of a movie. It was embarrassing after I gawked about my Home Theater system to my guests, and about how this DVD player was HD high technology bla bla bla. :rolleyes:

ANYWAYS …

I figured it was an IDE type loader, but didn’t get pumped enough to deal with it till I read some posts on here and got my cola caffeinated brain wheels turning. I went out and picked up a $29.00 OEM Samsung TS-942A 16x DVD ROM drive. Hope it would be a direct bolt on, but, as you know it is not. Bought some sheet metal (air duct – $2.59) and cut and bent it to make a custom mounting bracket to mount the drive in the D1. I had to raise the rear of the drive about 1/8” so the tray would clear the opening because the tray on a PC Rom is located a bit higher by designee. Cut my hands a few time, but it worked. Super glued the original tray faceplate to the drive tray. From out side the D1 you would not be able to tell any difference. Also lucked out that the drive is quite, and does not vibrate which where some concerns while I was modding this thing. I am happy as … pie!


THANKS ALL! :D :D

After also having a number of issues with the Bravo D1 over the last year and half, my loader also gave out. I tried replacing the loader, but noticed that the power supply board didn't look right. A section of the power supply PCB was discolored (due to heat). While digging into it further, I noticed the supply was only outputting 3.3V instead of 5V to the loader (sounds like a problem for any loader connected).

Turns out the power supply had been modified after initial manufacturing (they did a horrible hand soldering job while replacing a regulator on the back side of the power supply board), and replaced a 5V regulator with a 3.3V regulator (Tide Semiconductor DF1117-3.3). 3.3V is out of spec for the DVD loader, and according to several loader manufacturers, would cause loader problems and eventually damage over time.

When I contacted Vizio, they made it clear that they do not have any engineering resources or knowledge of poorly designed power supplies. Sounds like all of their products are now OEM'd from overseas (with them taking no responsibility for poor design).

Replacement power supplies are now $50, which is ridiculous considering the entire power supply costs less than $8, AND they should have never shipped a product which was out of spec.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, I'm just wondering if any other users have noticed if their D1 power supplies were supplying 3.3V instead of 5V to the loader?

Vizio/vinc should have recalled this player if they truly do have a power supply issue. I'm not surprised that loaders are going out, if the power supply is out of spec.

First, someone asked about deathwind's old page with the table of what works and what doesn't. I found a cached copy on google and have restored to the web. I can't tell you the URL, tho, because the @Q#(*$ forum moderator thinks I'm a spammer.

Next, my experiences. I bought a Bravo D1 in the spring of '04, just before they introduced the D2. By the time my model came out, most of the issues raised here had been fixed by V: skipping, hanging, etc. The one nagging issue that I continued to notice was that about 10% of the disks would hang on load (kept getting the "NO CD" message). Most disks worked all the time, some were flaky, and some would not work at all. I had a new copy of "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming" which played fine twice, then would not play at all.

After reading all the messages here, I bought a used Toshiba SD-M1502 on ebay for $20 including shipping. I flashed the firmware region free (it was 1008, I flashed to 1012), by following the instructions I found on the web. I can't tell you the URL, tho, because the @Q#(*$ forum moderator thinks I'm a spammer. That worked fine. Then today I replaced the loader in my D1.

To my surprise, my D1 ** DID NOT ** have the Fuss loader factory installed. Instead, it had an EPO Science & Technology DP-306A. It's a rather cheap-looking Chinese loader. I replaced the loader following the instructions for the Sony loader on deathwind's cached page, and viola! "Russians" plays perfectly, and the loader responds to remote commands much faster and much more reliably to boot.

A few notes:
1. In addition to removing the tray cover on the Toshiba, I also removed the normal outer cover over the eject button. The fit is quite close, and I needed every millimeter. The cover was difficult to remove and required a lot of work, but I eventually got it. The in/out fit is not *quite* perfect, the end of the tray cover is 1 mm or so farther inward than the original loader.
2. The up/down fit was almost perfect without shims.
3. There would have been absolutely no room for velcro to tack the drive down. I considered double-sided tape, but was worried that there would have been too little surface area for the tape to work, since the drive sits on four tiny stamped "hills" in the underlying steel frame. Instead, I found some sticky putty adhesive at the hardware store. Works fine so far.
4. In addition to the SD-M1502, several other Toshiba drives are also known to work, even though it doesn't say so explicitly on deathwind's cached page. I suspect that nearly any Toshiba drive would work. Check previous messages on this forum for more examples.
5. The Toshiba is as quiet or quieter than the OEM drive shipped by V.

If you want the URL's I can't post, you'll have to e-mail me.

Keith

First, someone asked about deathwind's old page with the table of what works and what doesn't. I found a cached copy on google and have restored to the web. I can't tell you the URL, tho, because the @Q#(*$ forum moderator thinks I'm a spammer.I also found deathwind's old page in Google's cache and I mounted it HERE (http://www.gray.mb.ca/D1-hack.html) for anyone who needs to see it.

I have been buying and upgrading Bravo D1s. I have just received one that has a new loader in it which appears to be a direct replacement for the Fuss loader.

It is an ECO DP-306A (http://www.epo.com.tw/edp306a.html) and works extremely well. The manufacturer now appears to be shipping a 306D revision of the drive and will soon have a 306E.

Has anyone tried the Lite-On SOHD-16P9S drive? It seems to be more widely available than the older 167T model and its feature list touts "Low-noise design". Circuit City stores seem to carry them.

I've got a second batch Bravo D1 that came with the EPO drive. For the most part it has performed okay with the occasional annoying glitch. For example, the machine consistently refuses to play the Bourne Identity extended edition DVD. Additionally, if I pause any DVD for more than a few seconds, the unit locks up and requires a power cycle to get it going again. Lastly there's slow loading on various DVDs and occasional stuttering on some DVD's.

I picked up an Asus E616A ($23 online) that I was going to put in a PC but thought I'd try it in the Bravo. The Asus drive has had great reviews, has a 2mb cache and supports DVD-RAM (Not important for me but I figured extended compatibility isn't a bad thing).

With the region code not set the drive would only play the FBI warning and would have a black screen with choppy audio while playing previews after the warning splash screen. I noticed other folks had the same problem with other loaders and someone had attributed this to a power supply problem.

However after setting the region code to 1 on a PC, I tried it again in the Bravo. This time the drive worked flawlessly. It's incredibly quick to load up discs and the fast forward and fast rewind are much faster and smoother than the original loader could ever muster. Extended pausing works as does the Bourne Identity extended edition DVD.

The one problem I have noticed so far is that region 2 discs now exhibit the same problem that the machine had when the region was not set. That is only the warning will play followed by black screen and choppy audio. Unfortunately this loader does not yet have a region free firmware hack available.

I've yet to work out a permanent installation. The drive is very short and has no trouble fitting in the case length-wise. Height-wise the drive seems to be right on with the opening in the Bravo; however, I've yet to see how the tray front will fit if at all. Like other drives, the Asus is loud on initial load up but quiet once playing the DVD. Admittedly I've only tried this with the system in pieces so noise levels might come down once everything is secured. The drive is billed as QuieTrack and reviewers have commented that it is unusually quiet.

I'll post a follow up when I get some time to finalize the install and get some more testing out of it.

-S

As required by Murphy's Law, right as I purchased a new loader for the D1 (the Lite-On SOHD-16P9S), the power supply on the D1 died! I'm guessing it's the power supply based on the common feedback here. The player died gradually: first it wouldn't play discs, then it stopped loading discs entirely, then it wouldn't come on except for the blue LED, and then finally it wouldn't power up at all. This all happened within 2 days.

Unfortunately, I'm past the 1-year warranty so I can't get Vizio to fix it. What's my most cost efficient solution at this point? Throwing it and buying a new player (the Oppo looks enticing)? Or is there a cheap power supply replacement solution along the lines of the loader replacement?

Or is there a cheap power supply replacement solution along the lines of the loader replacement?V.Inc. will sell you a new PS board for $35+$7 shipping.

PM me if you are 'technical' and I might be able to walk you through a repair.

Can anyone point me to the last firmware for the D1 and a do it yourswelf fix for the Power supply issue (is it just caps that need to be soldered on)?

Picked up a cheapie used one today for 50 that has issues playing some discs and stuff. Figure the swap is cake for me so just have to address power supply and firmware. Thanks.

Can anyone point me to the last firmware for the D1 and a do it yourswelf fix for the Power supply issue (is it just caps that need to be soldered on)?There is no 'paint by numbers' solution - it requires proper troubleshooting. But you should look for leaky capacitors, in particular C1022, which you should replace with higher rated units of the same value. There is a 3.3v regulator that should be checked - it often discolors the circuit board from overheating.

PM me if you cannot find the firmware.

Any reco on the replacement for ther c1022?

What is the voltage?

What is the voltage?I believe the original is 16v; I have been using 50v.

Any particualr brand?

Did you find you had to replace many of the 3.3v boards with 5v versions?

Any asdvice on sourcing one?

Thanks again.

Any particualr brand? Did you find you had to replace many of the 3.3v boards with 5v versions?Just a high quality radial electrolytic cap (http://www.weisd.com/store2/NTENEV1000M50FG-B.html). I use 50v.

The voltage regulator is supposed to be 3.3v - don't touch it unless it's faulty.

U ar da man.
Thanks Cavu (King of all D1's).

Would Nichicon 1000uf 63V work?

Think their would be any difference with Black Gate or Elna cap?

Would Nichicon 1000uf 63V work? Would be any difference with Black Gate or Elna cap?Any of them would work.

I installed a Benq DVP 1648A drive in a Bravo as I had it lying around. When I noticed the picture starting to skip and getting "choppy" - plus the usual freezing etc. I figured it was time to change the crappy Fuss loader. I wonder, is there a firmware to slow it down - spins way too fast although it loads and plays very quickly. I came across a test that put it close to the Lite on 166 in performance although the Lite on was still better. I may just keep it if it can be slowed down. If anyone has knowledge of this unit it would be appreciated if you could share your thoughts on this. I understand it is similar to some Pioneer drives.

I noticed the picture starting to skip and getting "choppy" - plus the usual freezing etc. I figured it was time to change the crappy Fuss loader.It's more likely a failing power supply than the loader.

Thankyou for bringing that up, I had thought about it after reading through the various posts - maybe I could replace the capacitor =and hope it lasts awhile - or a power supply upgrade from V inc. There's always the Oppo.

After using the Benq last night I found playing dvds much better - I don't notice any issues relating to the video and chapter changes etc. are almost instantaneous. The power supply board is not discoloured so I think I will replace the capacitor and hope for the best.

bumped because this thread shouldn't die as long as there are Bravo D1 owners out there...I've been lucky with mine...it's still working...but with the ideas in this thread I think i can get rid of the minor bugs by replacing the loader!

Props to all the folks who have posted results here!

My original Fuss loader was 'fussy' with discs, usually when first loaded.
I went with the factory replacement unit for ~75 bucks.

The new loader doesn't act up like the old one, but I can't skip the macrovision stuff anymore (fbi warning, disclaimers, etc). That feature was a real plum.

The power supply mod is a lot cheaper than a new loader and it will fix all the problems!!!

Changing the loader is solving a symptom for a while (different PS load), not solving the problem. If the PS has not failed yet, it will. The original Fuss loader and the later EPO loaders will work just fine!

I have modded several dozen D1 players and have never seen a secondary failure. The D1 becomes robust and reliable.