Wanted to get this started to find if any other people in West Virginia were on the forum and keep info up to date. Currently we have no local offerings for HDTV, we are barely digital in terms of our local stations. Charter who is our only option (not that great) transiently offered HD service earlier this year for HBO and Showtime but has since stopped due to lack of interest.

Any way anyone adding info is appreciated.

I guess this will be MY thread but just got my HLN 5065 and just got off the phone with charter communications and my HD STB will be delivered in AM for HD discovery and HD HBO. Also my BRAVO D1 ON ORDER. bIKERMAN CAN YOU HERE ME?

Just got the Scientific Atlanta 3100HD today and hooked it up via component to 50" sammy. HDdiscovery is beautiful!!!!!!, HBO stuff not appearing truly hi def yet, waiting a more recent movie. Any way though limited HD is available in Charleston

wvudrj,
Thanks for setting up this thread and for your PMs. I bought an HLN507 early in July and, between that and a lot of travel, have visited AVS infrequently.

So Charter is offering HBO and Discovery HD? Did you happen to talk to them about ESPN HD or other offerings?

No ESPN HD news but they told me that Mark Cuban that owns the mavericks and HDnet is a large shareholder in Charter so that may be the next channel but no timeline. Charter if you call them will tell you HBO is free but HDdiscovery is 5 dollars, the box is 4 dollars and instillation is 30 dollars. I told them I was already paying more than 100 bucks a month and I could install it myself. After a lot of nonreturned phone calls Adam got me the box for 4 bucks a month, the box I installed for free, and free HBO an free HD discovery. Look into it 4 bucks a month is worth it. By the way bravo D1 on the way I will let you know. Stay in touch.

Glad to see this thread opened. I live in SE Ohio and have continually contacted all the HUnt/Charleston stations re: digital broacasts OTA.
To date, most are "delay and deny" responses. I do receive Channel 3 (WSAZ) in digital and the picture quality is excellent eliminating all the shadow and fluctuations I always got in SD. Sad but all the rest seem to blame $ for the delay with Fox 11 blaming a tower crash.
Let them know you are here and expect progress on digital.
Incidentally the Directv HD broadcasts are quality broadcasts and I recommend it if you are searching for delivery of HD in your area.

Thanks for the info justice, I have run into the same hurdles, I will be moving away for one year the returning so not ready to invest in dtrecttv yet, due to uncertainties with my temporary residence.

Thanks for the info guys. I'm currently researching HDTV in this area for when I actually get a HDTV. I thought about giving Charter a call so I at least they know one more person is interested in it. I'll see if they have any updated info yet (ie INHD).

I was at "A Taste of Charleston" yesterday and ran into the WSAZ station manager. He said that the primetime nbc shows could be picked up in hi def with a set top box. I specifically asked him that it was Hi def and not just digital and he asked me to email him and he would send me the high def lineup.. I find this hard to beleive but I will try it. When I find out I will post the info. He also mentioned that the other stations were doing similar things and that charter would not carry them due to bandwidth limitations!

Thanks for the update. I figured charter would say something like that. I haven't had the chance to call charter yet, but I hopefully will at the end of this week.

wvudrj: So you just bugged them enough to get the free channels(and install) and to only pay for the box. I might have to try that. I'm paying $85 for digital cable, HBO, pipeline and would like to get the HDTV broadcast. But I don't think HD Discovery is worth the extra $5.

Yeah fleegs I told them I was already paying 100 dollars a month, charge 40 dollars for installation? I'm sure the guy couldn't figure out my system. Any was this is from the station manager at WSAZ channel 3 Jack Deakins

"Jay,
Attached is the NBC fall schedule with the shows that will be broadcast in HD 1080i. All NBC HD is in 1080i. In addition, several specials and sports programs will be offered this year. The 2004 Olympic Games from Athens will also be offered in HD.

This programming is only available via our over the air digital signal on channel 23. There are several "early adopter's" who report to us that they receive the DTV signal. I hope that you are able to purchase a DTV receiver with an outdoor antenna and will enjoy digital and HDTV soon.

I am still waiting for replies from other area stations that I emailed today. I will keep you posted.

More info for the charleston crowd, I called wchs since they never returned my Email and asked about HD. The answer is they are broadcasting a digital signal now but no HD. My next question was when, and the answer was "In the future", yeah no sh*t, the truth of the matter is it looks like we should look to direct tv for more stations. The other stations also have not responded but no time to call so far.

Good to seen more West Virginian's on here. I'm in the Eastern Panhandle myself and am served by DC's market.

We've got a NBC affiliate in Hagerstown, MD that started broadcasting in digital this summer but they said it will be over a year before they start broadcasting in true HD. So it sounds like WCHS may be taking this route. It's hard for them to justify the expense knowing that they won't reap much in extra revenue. Doesn't Charleston cable though offer some form of HD?

Change of plans just returned from circuit city and negotiated with them in regards to the new direct tv deal for $399 which includes a 3lnb eliptical dish, a samsung sirts160 reciever and install. The sales manager named Ty set up a deal for $450 and a 50 dollar rebate. Keep in mind the total for these regular at circuit city is close to $800. The kicker is when he rang it up the rebate turned out to be 100 dollars! WOOHOO!!!. Install is on tuesday, I had to have the reciever shipped but now I will get HDHBO, ESPNHD, HDNET, HDMOVIES, and HD showtime. I will keep you all posted. If anyone is interested I have the promotion codes from TWEETER that Ty matched though he never asked for them.

Update. I recieved and installed the samsung ts160 D*/ota reciever with a radio shack u75r uhf antenna on the roof yesterday and here are the results.
Direct TV HD has more to offer HDNET, NDNETmovies, HDHBO, HDshowtime, HD PPV, HD discovery, ESPNHD but compared to the HD cable from charter it is not quite as good quality wise which I hate to say because I HATE charter cable.
2. Our local WSAZ digital signal offers HD!!!!!!! Jay Leno last night was spectacular via my OTA portion of the samsung. The problem is my reciever drops the signal occasionally, which I still have yet to figure out. But HD is now on our local system!
3. Channel 8 and PBS also offer digital signals OTA but no high def yet.
So I think it will be a good investment once all the bugs are ironed out, if my wife can handle it.

What's the signal strength on the NBC station, your distance from the station and the type of antenna?

I actually just got mine moved out of my attic today and onto the roof, what a difference that makes.

The signal strength is 70 but the problem is I am suffering a labile signal strength. I am 40 miles from the towers and have a radio shack U75r UHF antenna. I had wchs for one day. Will try to elevate the antenna or add an amplifier. Thanks for keeping the thread going guys.

The problem here is multipath, I just raised my antenna to 15 feet off the roof (really gaudy but now get NBC with no dropouts and picked up pax. The other stations are on the same mountain but unable to get them. I question their signal strength. Anyway tonight was the first night I was really glad I got the direct tv deal. At one time the Miss Hawaiian Tropic contest was on HDNet, Trading Spaces ( I love Paige,my wife likes the show) was on HDDiscovery, Sunday Night Football on ESPNHD ( what a picture) and Law and order was in HD from our local WSAZ station OTA. Finally some choices. I will pick on the other local stations for info. It can only get better........ until my 15 foot antenna collapses!!!

Hey wvudrj, good to hear you are getting WSAZ OTA. You mentioned you are 40 miles from the towers. Where are the towers?

I noticed about a week ago that Charter added HD Showtime. I haven't called to see how much it is, but it is probably around $7-$10/month. Hopefully it is a sign of more channels coming.

Fleegs, I had to go to directtv to get ESPN HD, have not regretted it so far. Charter is very frustrating! No great solution yet though. WSAZ digital OTA really is nice

Glad to see you back, wvudrj.

I just visited the Charter location in Teays Valley to inquire about HDTV. The fellow I spoke with made several phone calls on my behalf, but the result was laughable. For an extra $10/Month you can get HDNet. Period. Discovery HD is another $3.99/month. HBO and Showtime are available at additional cost. No near-term plan for WSAZ, ESPN-HD or anything else.

In an astounding illumination of the obvious, he made the comment that "you can tell we don't get a lot of questions about HDTV."

When DirecTV offers local network affiliates in '04, there will be a mass exodus from Charter. wvudrj, how do the analog stations look on DirecTV? The only thing holding me back is the fear that overly-compressed analog channels will be even worse than Charter's analog offering.

Good to see some interest in hdtv in the charleston/huntington area. My biggest beef is with wowk rebroadcasting a stretched version of their analog feed on their digital spectrum. I called and they told me that they were "looking into" passing through the hd feed. All who care to see all the hd broadcasts CBS has to offer should call their office ask for engineering and complain about the sorry job of broadcasting they are doing. Better yet call West Virginia media Holdings cuz that' s who owns them. Just because we are in Wv doesn't mean that this crap can fly!

spence

Looks like our numbers are growing, happy thanksgiving all! Any one else reeeeaaaallllyyyy excited about the possibility of watching the GATORBOWL on NBC in HD? A lot of maybes here, maybe WVU will get in and maybe NBC will cover it in HD and maybe WSAZ will pass it on in HD. But we can hope.
As for WOWK I do not get their signal at all. WCHS comes in intermittently but only in digital and not HD. NBC is perfect from my house. I am unaware of the difference in power between the local channels. I do get PAX without a problem but have never watched it.
Keep posting and thanks!

Where are you to pick up WOWK I am in charleston and I get:
1. WSAZ perfect with no drop out in HD and signal strength 80
2. WCHS intermitently (no HD available)with drop out and signal strength 20
3. WOWK never
4. PAX all the time
5. PBS sometimes but no HD signal

I have a samsung sirt 160, rooftop Radio shack UHF antenna (on a 15 foot pole!)

I think all the towers are on the same hill between charleston and huntington but I don't know broadcast strength for each station

I'm in Huntington and use a zenith sat-520 with
a silver sensor on top of my tv

I can receive:
wsaz always 90%
wowk about 65%
pbs 50%
some religious channel 99%
wchs never even a blip

keep calling and irrritating wowk!

-spence

You wanted to see their power levels?

03-1 23 WSAZ-DT NBC 425. kW (STA)
08-1 41 WCHS-DT ABC 2.90 kW (STA)
11-1 19 WVAH-DT FOX 3.00 kW (STA)
13-1 47 WOWK-DT CBS 7.57 kW (STA)
25-1 26 WKAS-DT PBS 61.3 kW (LIC)
29-1 39 WLPX-DT PAX 1000 kW (LIC)
33-1 34 WPBY-DT PBS 60.1 kW (STA)
42-1 43 WPBO-DT PBS 50.0 kW (CP)
53-1 17 WHCP-DT TWB 19.1 kW (STA)
61-1 44 WTSF-DT REL 14.4 kW (STA)

Have fun!

- Trip
Bitstream Admin

To trip, thanks for the info, that explains why WSAZ and PAX are so clear and why every thing else is subpar (WCHS) or nonexistent (all others). This makes me think I dont need a new antenna or preamp, instead I need these weak stations to get on the ball!!!!

To Bikeman, the analog stations, are of many different qualities, we still have basic cable at this point for the locals.

Spoke to the engineer at WCHS/FOX and no plans to increase the power of their signal until "next year" no specifics, BOOOOOOO!

Spoke to the engineer at WOWK(CBS) and he is going to call me back about both power increase from tower and passing the HDTV feed from the network. He said I was the third person that called regarding these things.

Spoke to WSAZ and no info about gatorbowl being in HDTV but at this point I doubt it, but we can still hope. I also thanked WSAZ because their signal power is not only 50 times greater but they are also passing the HDTV feed which is really nice if you have not seen it. Sure they stretch their local news shows but give them credit for being so far ahead of the other locals!

Any of you guys with direct tv, the mountaineer basketball team is on HDNET today @ 1 oclock in a tournament in Wash. DC

Just found this thread courtesy of DrJ.
I had no idea that WSAZ was broadcasting in HD.
Unfortunately I reside in Fairplain WV which is about 5 miles south of Ripley on 77.
I am on a ridgetop. Does anyone have any idea where these towers are located?
Is it smart to assume that I have no chance of picking WSAZ up with a OTA antenna?

By the way, you want to have a unified voice to the stations in Charleston?
Join my HT Group that I have started here in WV.
We are small but I hope to put some of us together soon for a meet!

I have a ton of questions here.
I know UHF stands for Ultra high frequency but why is this type required for OTA HD?
I take it OTA HD is 1080i?
Would it be better to have a directional antenna instead of a multidirectional one?
I am about 48 miles as the crow flies from Huntington (which is where I assume WSAZ 23 tower is located) on a ridgetop with very little tree interferance. Do you think it is possible to recieve that signal (with a broadcast power of 425 kW) being that far away?
Is there a cheaper route for the recievers?

Question 1: It just so happens that all our stations do digital on the UHF wavelength. Other parts may be on VHF or both. This means that you could buy a uhf only antenna to pick up the digital feeds. The UHF antennas are much smaller than VHF antennas.

Question2: HDTV is defined as 720p or 1080i

After my install I wish I had mounted a really good antenna, my UHF only radio shack does do OK with the good signals (pax and wsaz). A lot of people recommend the channelmaster UHF only antenna 422? is the model number. Go to solidsignal.com to research

Recievers are still expensive for Over the Air reception but directtv currently has a $399 HD special which will also pick up OTA signals with installation. All you add is an OTA antenna of your choice.

Ok, DarrinH, I'm having no luck finding your wvhtgroup on yahoogroups. How do we interested parties join?

Sorry, I did not know about the yahoo groups.
We are a club that has a yahoo e-mail address.
We don't have a yahoo group.
Drop me a line at wvhtgroup@yahoo.com and I will add you to the news list.

DrJ, so both 720p and 1080i are possible OTA?
Thats great about the Direct TV reciever, that it does both.
I will just hold off until I am ready to upgrade my SAT service to get the HD OTA antenna.

I believe ESPN and ABC both do 720p and the others use 1080i, all hdtv's should be able to handle both and each mode has its strengths and weaknesses, but to be honest I can not tell them apart, both are incredible

Looking at ESPN HD spring schedule the big east basketball tournament in march will be in HD, now if the mounties can just make it in!

Any one else with Charter communications knows their cable picture is not ideal. WSAZ generally does not turn on their digital tower until afternoon. I had some friends over for the gatorbowl (no wisecracks please) and at 12 noon no digital feed could be found. I called WSAZ engineering dept. and asked the gentleman if they would turn on the tower. Surely it could not be that easy, right. The guy told me to hold on, he called someone else and before my eyes while still on the phone the digital signal was on. Thats it, the flick of a switch. Now the picture was stretched but much much sharper than the cable feed, again kudos to wsaz. Now why can't the other locals catch on and catch up, please call and complain!!!

If the Mounties do make it into the tournament, I want an invitation to watch that in HD :).

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040107/nyw077_1.html

Viacom and DIRECTV Sign Carriage Agreement
Wednesday January 7, 8:30 am ET
Deal Includes Carriage for MTV Networks Services, BET, CBS, UPN and The Viacom Television Stations Group
Nicktoons to Launch on DIRECTV's TOTAL CHOICE(R) PLUS Package


NEW YORK, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Viacom Inc. (NYSE: VIA - News and VIA.B - News) and DIRECTV today announced a comprehensive agreement that secures continued carriage of all of MTV Networks' program services currently carried by DIRECTV, and BET. The deal also provides for CBS analog broadcasts, as well as high-definition broadcasts for CBS's coverage of Super Bowl XXXVIII and its industry-leading HDTV lineup in owned-and-operated markets. DirecTV will also continue to carry UPN analog broadcasts.

Possibly an option for us for a HD superbowl?

I am on the phone with directtv now and I seriously doubt it, but it is not right that are pathetic locals don't offer HD. The guy at direct tv just doesn't know yet.

I have been receiving the WSAZ HD signal and programming for a couple of months. I am near Pomeroy in Ohio and use a 30 foot tower and deep reception antennae. Signal is solid as a rock always (about 60 miles as the crow flies.) Cannot touch any other stations signals but now get WOUB in Athens OH which is PBS HD. Awesome OTA.
Use directv HD programs for other HD
Samsung 61 " TV and Sony 200HD receiver for OTA and DTV.
I keep hounding Ch 8,11, and 13 but get no or little response.
Good luck to all of you in keeping the heat on the stations. Less than 600 kw is a joke-Can't get that signal if you leave their parking lot.

Justice2

What type of antenna are you using and at what elevation? I'm in the Point Pleasant area using a Radio Shack UHF/VHF combo, mounted at 40 feet. WSAZ has a good signal. Changed my cable to RG-6 and can now get WOWK (no HD on WOWK just digital). Have a CM 4228 and the CM 7777 amplifier on order. Hope to pick up Athens

Ihave a radio shack non amplified UHF only antenna on 15 foot mast on second story of my house. I can get WSAZ and pax both very well. WCHS, FOX, and WOWK have such low signals cant pick them up!

Well in light of the direct tv viacomm deal to bring a national HD CBS feed (and the superbowl) I asked wowk for a satellite waiver. To my surprise I was called back to say it was granted she just needed a signature. Well the higher ups at West Virginia Media Holdings vetoed it. They called me back to tell me of the change. Unwaivered I sent a second email pleading my case. The FCC has screwed us with what they define as a digital signal. The wowk signal, as well as WCHS and Fox are all running on the same 9 volt battery! Even if they turned up the juice still no HD feed. I will say it again thanks to WSAZ for their OTA HD signal. Call WCHS, Fox, WOWK and demand a stronger signal and a high definition signal!!!

Just got off the phone with our local CBS station CEO here in Charleston WV. I had asked for a waiver so that I could get the superbowl in HD via my Direct TV due to the new viacomm deal but was denied. He said it was illegal for an outside HD signal to come into a non O&O market like here, even with a waiver, where I can pick up their horrible analog signal. Their digital signal is currently running on a nine volt battery (less than 10 kW) and unobtainable by me, and still no high definition feed by them. Our cable is terrible the analog picture is horrible and they won't work with me. I asked if it was possible that if it was "legal" could I get a waiver, still no. He said there are only 10 people with HD tv's here ( lie) and he would need 100,000 people interested to make it worth their while.
Everyone please call 343-1313 and tell them you want HDTV now. There are ten people in this post much more in the area!!!!!

My follow up email to CEO at local CBS station
Dear Mr. Carey after our conversation today there were several things which concerned me. Number one you said you never recieved my emails when I sent two to Libbey Tolley regarding my waiver request. Number two you said it is illegal to offer a national HD feed, when the waiver itself provides the legality, and this is being done elsewhere. Your next reason for denial was the possible revenue loss from granting these waivers. Finally you defended your lack of providing an adequate digital HD signal due to lack of demand saying "only ten people are interested". You can't have your cake and eat it too, if only ten people are interested how much money could you lose by granting waivers to these ten people??? I would gladly give up my waiver once your station provided a viewable and modern signal but that is currently not the case. Finally someone in your department called my house to inform me that it had been granted only to call back saying it had been denied. Not a lot of good answers coming from WOWK and West Virginia Media Holdings. This has been a dissappointing experience to say the least. Jay Lohan

Jay, please send the group the e-mail address for Mr Carey.
I would like to follow up with an e-mail on behalf of the group.

I posted this in another section, new to this so please excuse the double posting.

My experience with OTA in Winfield WV
I just found this forum today, trying to find other people in the area with HDTV problems.

We use DishNetwork for regular TV and I have a Dish 921 HDTV "TIVO Like" receiver/recorder on order. I will then get about 8 channels in HDTV. I sell dishnetwork and have seen the HDTV output , all of the channels except ESPN are very good.

I bought a 57 widescreen rear projection Sony in July of this year. I hooked it up to my Winegard UHF/VHF antenna with rotor, using a Zenith 420 Hdtv receiver.
I got WSAZ-DT with a good signal in HDTV for a couple of months, but lately have had to aim the antenna nightly, and with mixed results. I usually have to go analog. I wonder if they have decreased their signal. I thought it would get better when we lost the leaves from the trees.

I also get WOWK-DT now with a fair signal, maybe one dropout every 3 minutes.

I can barely get WCHS-DT. This is strange because I am only 4 or 5 miles from their tower. I get the analog perfectly.

I get 3 different channels from WPBY in Huntington, they are digital only.
As far as I can tell WSAZ is the only station with HDTV

The locals are available from Dish, but they do not pass the digital signals.

Adelphia is the local cable provider here, but they have no plans for the immediate future.

It looks like the only thing we can do, other than complain is hurry up and wait.

Keep up the good work guys,
Bill #11 with HDTV

Is there a site on the net where you can view the signal levels?
I live on a ridgetop in Fairplain and I was wondering, if I bought the largest Channelmaster antenna with the 100 mile range would I be able to pick up Columbus OH?
What about Lexington KY?

Also, does anyone have a good site where I can see extensive info on grounding an antenna?

One of the earlier posts on this thread discussed the power levels of different stations, it may reference his info. Do a search on antenna grounding for the other info.

I just called in a Charteston Daily Mail newspaper "Vent" statement.

I asked "Since the local TV stations all refuse to broadcast the HDTV programming from the networks, how much longer can they prevent the satellite & cable channels from providing us with the network HDTV programming?"

The local TV station engineering & programming depts never return phone calls or answer emails concerning HDTV.

Red

Great action, seems like there may be more than ten people as the WOWK ceo claims. We need a piece in the CHarleston newspapers about HDTV, I would be glad to have them to my house to show off its potential!

We could go for a Daily Mail article on HDTV but they do not like to repeat stuff from the Gazette.
If it was affiliated with us, I bet we would have a hard time getting a story.
Maybe I will hit them later this year for a story.
I still want to try to get a TV spot for the group.

Even better would be a spot on WSAZ since they are providing the OTA signal, to show off what they are offering. I will call today!

You go dude.
If you need help, let me know.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=01_26_2004A

DIRECTV Delivers CBS HDTV Programming in Time for Super Bowl XXXVIII Broadcast
Local Channel and HD Package Subscribers have access to CBS HDTV via a Single Satellite Dish


El Segundo, CA Jan 26, 2004

WHAT: DIRECTV, Inc., provider of the nation's leading digital multichannel television service, today announced it will begin offering CBS high-definition television (HDTV) programming to its eligible customers on Friday, Jan. 30, in 17 markets where CBS owns and operates stations and nationwide for subscribers to CBS distant network signals.

Eligible customers who have the appropriate HD receiving equipment and subscribe to DIRECTV programming packages that include local channels, or the DIRECTV HD package, or receive CBS distant network signals, will have access to CBS HDTV programming that includes the Feb. 1 CBS presentation of Super Bowl XXXVIII and primetime hits like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and "Everybody Loves Raymond." Eligible DIRECTV customers will receive the live feed from (WCBS in New York) or (KCBS in Los Angeles) as part of their eligible programming package.

DIRECTV is the only digital satellite service offering CBS HDTV via a single dish and as an option for customers who may only subscribe to a high-definition channel package.

DIRECTV is supporting the addition of CBS HDTV to its high-definition programming lineup in (Market) with local advertising and promotions.

WHEN: Live broadcast begins Jan. 30, 2004

----------------------
At least one of our members had an easy time of getting a CBS feed ok'ed on his Direct TV programming. He also has a HD setup so he is anxiously awaiting evidence to see if this is true.

I think this may only apply to CBS owned local stations. Charleston probably will not be served.

Red

I understand it to mean that if you already receive CBS through a waiver from another major market on your Direct TV system and you have DTV HD package, you will get the HD CBS feed.
Are you saying that even though you already receive the CBS through Direct TV and your local is not owned and operated by CBS you will need an additional waiver?

That is my understanding.

I was told that there is no waiver if the local is not broadcasting HD or is not owner by CBS.

LOL

Red

I don't pretend to understand the competitive environment of the local affiliate business, but it is not clear why WSAZ does not advertise their HDTV capability. Seems to me it is a competitive advantage in attracting advertisers targeting those with some discretionary income.

The side benefit to those of us held captive by WCHS and WOWK is that a high-profile WSAZ capability would show the other two affiliates to be low-rent outfits. Perhaps that's what they want to be or, maybe it would pressure them into delivering a more competitive digital/HD offering.

Just some musings on a Saturday morning.

Mike

Ok, some clarity on CBS HD through Direct TV.
You have to be beyond the OTA reception area.
One of our members is not that far, but lives in a bit of a valley.
He can receive the OTA for NBC though.
He has cable available in his area but does not subscribe to it.
He had the waiver for about a year and received CBS out of NY.
He also subscribes to the HD package.
He now receives the CBS HD out of NY through his HD package.
So any of you that think you may be outside the OTA range and intend on subscribing to DTV HD you should be able to get CBS HD.

WOW! Great thread. I am in the process of installing an antenna to pick up WSAZ. The Daytona 500 is going to be broadcast in HD, so I want it.

I too have the CBS-HD feed from D*. And soon to add FOX-ED/HD as soon as D* gets it up. However, my grandfathering expires at the end of the year, so I hope that the local stations get on the ball.

Maybe we could take out a full page add in both Huntington and Charleston thanking WSAZ and condemming the others for lack of programming. I'll offer up the first $100 for such an add.

Or perhaps call the Herald-Dispatch and Daily Mail and ask them to do a story. Perhaps e-mail a reporter directly asking them to do a story. Maybe they will be able to convince an editor and get bonus points for providing story ideas.

Apparently Bray Cary does not shop at Best Buy or Circuit City. If he did he would see stores full of HD-ready TV's and HD receivers. I'm sure they have sold more than 10, or they wouldn't bother stocking them. Can you even buy a TV larger than 36" that is not HD ready anymore?

As for the waiver process. You don't have to be outside the OTA, you just can't get a Grade B signal. So if you really can't pick up a signal, (having cable available is not relevant), call and ask for a waiver. When it is denied, ask for a signal test. DirecTV will send out a technician to test your signal. If you truly can't get a Grade B signal, you will get the Distant Networks, and the station denying the waiver gets to pay for the test. Let Bray pay for a few of these and see how his attitude changes.

Anyway, I'm glad I found this thread. Count me in as #12.

WVUDRJ - Have you seen the new HD DirecTivo? It comes out in March/April and will be able to record 30 hours of HD or 200 hours of SD. It has 4 tuners and can record OTA signals as well. I am counting the days.

Where have you found antennas. I tried Radio Shack, Circuit City & Best Buy and none of them had any outdoor antennas. Any ideas.

Thanks.

Lowes and Home Depot both carry Channel Master combo antennas.
I have a Radio Shack antenna and live 22 miles from WSAZ & WOWK towers. The antenna is mounted at 45 ft above ground. I get WSAZ very well and WOWK with a lot of drop outs. I ordered a CM 4228 (have not installed due to this wonderful weather). I did place it on my deck at 10 ft elevation and was able to get WSAZ. Once mounted at 45 ft I would expect to pick up WOWK with no drop outs. Too bad WOWK is not passing through HD.

The Daily Mail vent line would not publish my vent about local TV stations not allowing network HD on the cable or DirecTV, & not broadcasting network HD themselves.

Maybe one of you could try with better luck.

Rog, I will be interested in how the CM4228 works for you. I almost ordered one last week. I am about 33 miles from Huntington Stations. I get WOWK better than WSAZ. FYI, WSAZ has not been doing much HiDef lately. Last night Las Vegas was SD and Sunday the first Law&Order Criminal intent was SD.

Bill in Winfield

Bill, I talked with the WSAZ engineer in Dec, he indicated that when NBC sends a HD that they would pass the signal thru, but NBC dosn't seem to have many shows in HD. Take a look at titantv it gives a listing of shows that are in HD on each network.
I'm surprised you don't get WSAZ as well, antennaweb.org shows Winfield at the same distance from each tower.
Once I get the CM up I'll post the results on reception.

Woohoo!!!! I'm getting WSAZ-DT and its very clear. Getting a signal strength of 88 on my RCA DTC-100. I'm getting a signal of 72 from WOWK-DT but the picture/sound keeps dropping out.

Ironically, when I point my directly toward the coordinates listed on Antennaweb.org, my WOWK signal drops to 27, but WSAZ stays in the 80's. I get the best WSAZ signal pointed at around 315, but the tower is at 288. So who knows.

The antenna I got was the RCA that's good for up to 65 miles. It is on my lower deck, so I may try it on my upper deck to see if the signal picks up. But I just had to try it to see if it worked. Either way I will be watching the Daytona 500 in HD.

According to antennaweb.com I am 16 miles from the antenna. I think I am actually farther and wonder if they are using the center of Hurricane as the measuring point and not my actual address. I know where they are it seems like more than 16 miles.

OK, I moved my antenna to my upper deck. I still get a great signal and picture from WSAZ, my signal from WOWK is now topping out at 82, but the picture drops out every few seconds. WOWK is not really that important since I am receiving CBS-HD via D*, at least for now.

I was in florida all last week so sorry for no answers. I have seen the HDTivo info and I can't wait to get it. As for the locals I like the idea of some form of public appreciation to WSAZ while at the same time putting some heat on the other locals. As for Mr. Cary Boooo! I am open to ideas you all keep me posted. Also anyone not in the WVHT group I would encourage you to PM or email Darrin in this thread for info. The more of us there are the more vocal we can be!

If you have a weak signal try moving the antenna a few feet in some direction.

When I was a kid it was my job to walk the new antenna for the neighbors to find the hot spots in their yard. It would change with the seasons.

More height was not always better.

I will be looking for my "hot spot" soon.

Red

Just got my Sam TS-360 receiver DirecTV special.
It will not find any hot spots with 12 element Yagi. No digital stations found.

I was hoping for them to send the Hughes/LG STB.
It has the old Zenith tuner system & is more sensitive than the Samsung.

I ask for it but they ship what they have at the door.

I will stay with DirecTV & wait for local stations to increase power.

Red

Rednecker where are you. really only WSAZ and PAX put out an adequate signal. Pax is worthless (opinion) but has the highest power ( see prior message in this thread, WSAZ will be going to 700 kW (from 400) but don't know when. Other stations are less than 10 kW and worthless unnless you live in a treehouse 10 feet from the tower!

I tried to watch Law and Order last Wednesday night in HD, but it would be fine for several minutes then pixelate for 10 seconds or so and go back to being perfect. The picture wasn't the problem, it was losing the dialog that caused the wife to make me change back to the version that was being Tivoed so she could hear what was said.

This was the first program I had tried to watch since the Daytona 500, which did have some problems but those seemed to be related to the NBC national feed. Has anyone else had any experience watching primetime in HD on WSAZ?

I have had this problem and it is so frustrating. The picture only seems to pixelate when something good is on. Then to have to switch to the standard definition feed is all the more painful due to the wide difference in quality. It must be a power issue because I have never seen PAX pixelate and their sinal power is markedly more than WSAZ. Call them(WSAZ) tomorow and tell them to turn up the power!

I tried to watch Law & Order last night in HD last night. I had a very strong signal, but no video or audio. My Zenith HD receiver only shows signal strength as Bad, Normal, and Good. It was way into the good area. Has anyone else had this happen?

Bill in Winfield

I am not getiing any picture but normal signal strength for two days now?!

Just got off the phone with WSAZ and their microwave that sends the feed to the transmitting tower is misalligned so their is a signal being put out from the tower but no information on it if that makes sense. A crew will be out in the next two weeks to fix it they say

A buddy of mine at works swears he got a flyer in his Charter bill that said Charter now has (or will soon have) WSAZ-HD and ESPN-HD in Charleston WV. Does anyone know if that is true? I guess I could call them but who knows if I'd get the correct answer:-)

I got my Charter bill yesterday and I didn't see anything in it. I hope that is true. I would order the HD package the second they offered it. I'd love to have ESPN HD.

EDIT: I checked the channel guide and didn't see anything new.

Have not heard but call charter five times and I bet you get 5 different answers!

ESPNHD is on the channel guide!!! Channel 773. When you go to the channel, nothing comes up for ordering the service.

EDIT: I called Charter and the lady I talked to didn't have a clue. What I did get out of her is that ESPNHD will be starting on Mar 15. It will be included in the HD Package and the package is $3 (I thought it was $4 before, so I don't know if it changed or not). I asked if there were any other channels starting on the 15th and she said no. I hope that helps everyone.

I'll be getting ESPNHD on the 15th for sure (along with DiscoveryHD). I might stop by the Charter store in the Town Center Mall in the next week or so and see if they know anything more. Hopefully I'll be able to get the HD Box there and not have to deal with a service man coming out.

Good to hear. Let us know if you find anything else out when you go to the Charter store.

This thread is up to 84 posts, with some great info. I am going to move to Columbus for one year more surgical training. Not to make anyone envious but I am going to be 6 miles from the network HD towers!

Good luck in Columbus, wvudrj. I work up there every week with Bank One.

I asked Charter about ESPNHD and WSAZ/HD, having seen a reference in the forum.

MY POST:
A post on the Charleston HDTV thread on avsforum.com said that you will
soon add WSAZ-HD and ESPN-HD to your lineup. What is the availability
and pricing of these and your other non-premium HDTV offerings?

CHARTER RESPONSE:
Thank you for contacting Charter Communications.

Mr. Sir,
In response to your email, we do have a limited supply of HDTV
receivers in stock. Currently we are limiting one per household. The cost of
the HDTV receiver if you already have a digital receiver is an additional
$3.04 to your monthly bill. If you do not already have a digital
receiver in your home, the cost for the HD receiver is $9.99 per month.

Currently we offer 3 HD channels. We have Discovery HD, which is $3.99
per month and HBO HD, which is $13.00 per month which also comes with
Cinemax (Cinemax is not yet offered in HD), or free if you subscribe to
the HBO/Cinemax Plex. We also offer Showtime HD which is $4.00 per
month, or free with the subscription to the Big Movie Tier(which also
includes TMC). ESPN HD will be available in your area within the next couple of months. We are waiting to finalize the contract and install the
equipment to broadcast that channel.

Installation for HDTV service is currently $4.95.

If you would like to setup an appointment for an HD receiver to be
installed in your home, or if you have any questions, please contact us by
phone at 800-972-5757.

Thank you,
Colleen
Customer Care
Charter Communications

Thanks for posting the email Bikeman. I've emailed them 2 times in the last month and I never receive anything back.

Last night, I went into the Charter store in Charleston Town Center mall and signed up for the HD Service. Here are the key points:

- HD Receiver is $6.95
- HD Service $3.00 (just to send the signal to your home, no channels)
- ESPN-HD & DiscoveryHD $4.00 total
- Installation $29.99 (they wouldn't budge on this. They said that they have to send a service person out to your home to verify and setup the box. The lady said that they have had several people sign up for the service and the service person would go out to their home and they wouldn't have a HDTV. I wanted to pick up the box from the store, but they don't have any there (they are in the warehouse). If I get an email response like Bikeman, I'll try to get my $25 back.)
- Free DVD Player (the offer ended last night and I was able to get the last one (thanks to the person that signed up for HD and didn't have a HDTV :) ). This will help make up for the $30 installation fee.)

I didn't sign up for any of the movie channels. I asked the lady if she knew of any new channels coming and she said they are working on some deals, but they don't have anything right now.

Also, they will try to push the HD Install Kit ($14.95) and say that they have to include it with the install. I told the lady that I already had the cables and her first response was that I don't have the cables. I told her that I had component cables and didn't need the kit. She finally broke down after realizing that I knew what I was talking about and didn't include the install kit.

In the end, I'm slightly happy. I thought the initial cost was a little high, but hopefully they will get some more channels soon. At least I'm ready for the baseball/football seasons and hopefully the hockey/basketball playoffs (and T-Wolves and Lakers on the 26th).

I had their HD service temporarily, I refused the installation because my equipment like others is too complex to have a stranger plug it in. I mean that is all installation is is connecting the box via component to a HDTV. DO NOT pay for something you can do in 33 seconds on your own! Don't pay for the install kit either, especially if you have components already! These people are always clueless, it is a shame they have a monopoly,,, unless you go to direct tv like me!:)

fleegs79 - let us know how ESPN-HD looks via Charter when you get it installed.

Originally posted by clueless
fleegs79 - let us know how ESPN-HD looks via Charter when you get it installed.
Sounds good. It will be installed on Friday and I think there is a HD NBA game on that night.

So how is the Charter ESPN-HD quality?

I thought the quality of the HD feeds of ESPN-HD were great. I watched the Houston/Golden State NBA game on Friday and I was really impressed. It almost hurt to watch the highlights from other games because they were so grainy. Anything that is not HD looks about the same as normal ESPN, since they upconvert it. I’m looking forward to the start of the baseball/football season in HD and when they start Sportscenter in HD in the next month or two.

Discovery-HD looks great too. My wife and I have been watching a lot of shows on there this past weekend.

Installation was a little bit of a mess. The cable guy showed up with a non-HD box to replace my old box. I told him that I needed the HD box and it should come with component outs. With a blank look on his face, he asked what component outs were. So I explained it to him and told him that I needed the HD box. He called some of the other cable guys and they told him to go get one from the warehouse.

An hour later, he shows up with the HD box and starts to install the box. First, he hooks up the component cables and then hooks up the cable in. Next, since he had a hard time seeing where the rest of the cables go, he spun the box around, causing the coax cable to be pulled from the box and leaving the cable end on the box. At this point I decided that I wouldn’t let him hook up any more of my cables and I quickly hooked everything else up while he was getting a new end for the cable from his truck.

When he got back, he hooked up the cable and turned on the box. At this point, we could get TV through the ReplayTV, but not through the component outs. So I went through the settings menu trying to find an option to turn on the component outs. When I didn't find anything in the menu, I decided to see if the cable guy put the cables in the right spot. He did, but he didn't push them in far enough. As soon as I pushed them in, everything worked great.

In conclusion, follow wvudrj's advice and don't let them install it by themselves. The cable guy said that he had never installed a HD cable box or seen any of the HT equipment that I have. If they would give the HD box out at the store in the Charleston Town Center mall, I could have installed the box in under a minute. Instead, I waited around all day for the cable guy to show up and then had to deal with a mess.

Thanks for the info.. I'll probably run to the Mall at lunch tomorrow and subscribe. I'll make sure I make an appointment for a day I can be home.

Originally posted by clueless
Thanks for the info.. I'll probably run to the Mall at lunch tomorrow and subscribe. I'll make sure I make an appointment for a day I can be home. Yeah, they will say that they will be there from 8-4:30 or something similar. You pretty much have to have the whole day off. Luckily, the cable guy got done at 4:00pm, right when I had to leave to pickup my wife from the airport.

Sorry, but I had to say it, Charter people are clueless at all times. Insist that you hook it up. By the way fleegs did you pay for your top notch installation? If so raise H*ll, how can these people know so little about their own company and technology! Any way welcome to the HD world.

Anyone else seen the advertisements on TV by Bray Carey CEO of WV media Holdings? "Contact us and let us know how we can serve you better" Yeah here is how, either start broadcasting HD OTA or sign my waiver so I can get the CBS HD feed via direct tv!

Well they waived the installation fee for me, but insisted that their installer has to install it... I'll let you know if I have a similar horror story next week.

Let them install it. On an old 19" TV sitting in the middle of the room away from everything else they could harm.:D

Originally posted by herdfan
Let them install it. On an old 19" TV sitting in the middle of the room away from everything else they could harm.:D That would definitely work if you had my installer come to your place. He had no clue.

I might have to call Charter and see if I can get my install fee back. Even though I got a $50 DVD player out of the deal.

I emailed WCHS (local ABC affiliate) asking whether they intended to pass along the ABC HDTV signal anytime soon. WCHS is commonly-owned - or at least commonly managed - with WVAH, the local Fox affiliate. Here's the reply:

" WCHS (DTV ch. 41)and WVAH (DTV ch 19) both plan to broadcast in
HDTV. We hope to have HDTV network pass through available later this year.

The collapse of the WVAH tower during the ice storm last winter has
caused considerable delay with our DTV projects. We are in the process
of replacing both the tower and building with a new WVAH facility. The
new tower will be the same height as the old WVAH tower, 1500ft for
maximum coverage. We do not plan to operate at "full" DTV transmitter
power for either station, but a "medium" power level instead.

Currently WCHS-DT-41 is on air with standard DTV (our analog signal
converted to digital) using a low power transmitter covering only the
local Charleston area. Depending on where you live you may be able to
receive this signal with standard UHF antenna (not VHF)."

Sort of encouraging. We'll see how they follow through on this.

Just noticed on my direct tv tonight two listings for WCHS, one with HD listings and one as digital but both under 8-1 on the channel guide. I could never get WCHS but this is a recent change. Any one else notice this. It is in the Direct tv program guide on the HD direct tv boxes

Everyone Tom in WV who recently joined just got his HD TV and HD direct tv today. Congratulations and enjoy the kings lakers game!

WCHS showed up yesterday on my D* box also mapped to channel 8-1. Tried to tune it in but i'm in Huntington and it was pointless. I would just like WSAZ to get back up and running, any idea on the timeframe?

-spence

Spoken to wsaz several times and always 1-2 weeksto fix problem, over last several calls spanning one month. Alignment issues with signal to tower. I with you I wish they would hurry, I had occasional dropouts but the picture on HD shows was worlds apart from Charter PQ!
Before wchs was on 8-1 but no channel guide info, suddenly I think last night was the first time I noticed some of the prime time stuff was listed as HD, must be an error because they have no current plans for a firm HD signal date. Their signal power is very low to begin with!

Man you guys are really scraping for HD content.
I hope there is a lot more available towards the end of the year.
I hope to be on board by then.

I'm glad to see an active interest in HD in WV. I'm originally from the Sutton area but have lived in Northern VA (DC area) since graduating WVU in the early 70s with an electronics engineering masters degree (techo geek even back then). I have had a home theater for (believe it or not) 30 years and a DTV web site for about 6 years now (www.dtvmax.com). I'll be retiring in a couple of years and moving back to WV (as least for the summers). I trust all of you guys will get the broadcasters and cable companies straightened out by the time I make it back.

Ron Jones

Always good to come back home, but getting charter and West Virginia Media Holdings in line is an other issue all together.

To those that are interested WSAZ HD digital OTA signal is back on line!

Just an FYI on Charter "service". Around 3 weeks ago I made an appointment with Charter for them to "install" the HD-STB this past Thursday (since I was planning on taking a couple of days off due to the local school system's spring break). Well Thursday rolls around and around 11am I get a call telling me they are "out of HD boxes but they should come in by the end of the day and they will come out before noon the next day". Since I was working around the house anyway I said OK. Friday noon comes and no one shows up. I decided NOT to call to complain but to just let it play out. Finally around noon on Saturday I get a call from the installer (a contractor) saying he'll be at my house "in a couple of hours". Against my better judgment I said OK. Now to his credit he did show up around 2pm and he was fairly knowledgeable. The HD box works fine and the HD picture is great . However the cost is way too much for what you get (ESPN-HD and Discovery-HD). I'll be switching to DirecTv very soon.

It is a shame Charter has a monopoly on cable modem service because once locals are on HD I plan to drop their television service. Nothing would make me happier than to divorce myself from them. I BELIEVE (CORRECT ME) that DSL is not as good and no cheaper than cable modem.

Originally posted by wvudrj
It is a shame Charter has a monopoly on cable modem service because once locals are on HD I plan to drop their television service. Nothing would make me happier than to divorce myself from them. I BELIEVE (CORRECT ME) that DSL is not as good and no cheaper than cable modem.
You don't have Adelphia. Actually I have both DSL and cable. I use cable most of the time because it is faster and I use multiple streams during the day, but the DSL is much more stable. I have to switch from cable to DSL at least once a week because the cable is not working properly. When I only had DSL, it NEVER went down. So if all you do is surf and check e-mail, DSL will be just fine.

Quiet Down I am going to compliment charter! There cable modem has been fast AND stable since I have had it. (Did I just say that?) I also play XBOX live so I need the extra speed so I have to go with cable. That is it though otherwise charter is worthless, just like Bray Carey!

I have DSL and am very happy with it. 1.5 Megabits/sec download (both claimed and actual) and 150 kilobits/sec upload (claimed and actual). Cost is $35/month. Faster upload speeds would be nice but I really don't need upload speeds very often.

I've had Verizon DSL for more than 4 years (my modem still says BellAtlantic on it). I can't remember the last time it was down. I had perhaps a couple of outages in the first year and none that I can recall since. My throughput is the same as clueless.

My father has Charter cable modem service. They have deprovisioned him twice in the last six months, without explanation. Both times they rolled a truck and found no problem. It did not get fixed either time until spent an hour on the their support line wrestling with them. I couldn't design a worse outfit if I tried.

Go ahead, wvudrj, move to Verizon DSL. You won't miss a thing.

Hey guys.....I'm a member of the WVHT Group and finally got on board with this forum. I've talked to wvudrj a few times on AOL. I've been in talks with the Local Engineers in the Charleston/Huntington area for about a year now. Jay is correct, WCHS has no plans for HD content. The reason being is due to their primary tower collapsing over a year and a half ago from a major storm. Rumors are, they are looking to build a tower somewhere in Putnam County. The good thing is, since Digital Reception is very localized, it will be nice we can all point our antennas in one direction and receive all the channels.....once they become available. I'm lucky enough to have CBS-HD through DirecTV. When I signed up with them over a year ago, I asked about the waivers. They gave me CBS right then and there without a 45 day wait. Odd thing is, when Jay was discussing the waiver issues with WSAZ, I told a friend all they had to do was call and they had a general waiver for CBS out of NY and LA for our area. She called and she has it too. Not sure why they are playing such hard ball now. When they announced CBS, they stated that a deal with Fox will be coming soon. At this time, Fox is not HD period. They are Enhanced Widescreen or something like that. However, they are on the bill to have SEVERAL NFL games this year along with the Superbowl. I have Fox NY and LA on SD, so I will have the HD soon. Suberbowl this year looked great in HD. My family that came over was amazed at the picture.

Anyone else been unable to get wsaz digital for last couple of weeks. Seems as if it is out again!

I just got my new HR10-250 HD DVR and I put a new CM4228 with a CM7777 in my attic. I am picking up WSAZ great. FWIW, my signal strengths are in the mid 90's. I am also getting WOWK rock solid as well. No HD pass through, but I do get their digital signal. My signal meter also shows me getting WCHS on occasion, but I have not been able to pull a picture.

We just need to keep writing them letters asking for them to pass on the HD feeds. According to one of the Foxeng on this forum, all Fox stations are getting the equipment to do the 720p HD and that Fox will expect them to use this equipment to pass through the HD feed.

Hey herdfan, where are you located? I've thought about putting an antenna in the attic, but am not sure it would let me pick up WSAZ. I'm in Cross Lanes.

Is the pre-amp necessary/typical for this type of setup?

Go Herd!!!

I am about 1 mile N of the Teays Valley exit. My antenna is pointed at 260 deg. even though Antennaweb.org says they are at 288 deg from my location. It is pointed this way to get the max height in the attic as it is parallel with my ridge beam and only about 3 inches below it. Any lower and it could be blocked by my HVAC duct.

As for the pre-amp. I was getting 90+ with WSAZ without it, but only mid 70's for WOWK. When I added the amp, WSAZ stayed the same, but WOWK jumped to the high 80's, so it made a difference there.

In Cross Lanes you should be able to get WSAZ. You will need to have a good antenna like a CM 4228 or maybe even the 4221.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

I also recently installed the 4248. It is huge. I also have the CM UHF only preamp.

I put it on the chimney of my two story house. I now get WSAZ HDTV perfectly. I also get WOWK but as Herdfan says, there is no HD.
If I rotate the antenna, I can now get all of the digital stations, including WCHS,PAX (who cares),PBS (3 channels).

I just received a letter from Dish network telling me that I will be losing my East West Distant Network stations that I have had for at least 7 years. I had been looking forward to the CBS HD feed for my Dish 921 HDPVR that I ordered in Oct that I may never see. I assume this because Charleston now has locals. ( I do not suscribe to the locals I use my antenna.)

I now will be looking at Direct TV HDTivo when they get the locals. I read that will be about June 24.

Bill in Winfield

Herdfan,
Does your STB have a signal meter within it?
I live clear up in Fairplain and I am wondering if I can pick up WSAZ up here.
Is there anyway for me to have the signal measured before purchasing the antenna equipment?
The CM UHF preamp that HDTV in WV mentioned, is that the same one that you have?

I get a signal of 94-95 from WSAZ on my HR10-250 HD DVR. All signal meters will be different, so what I get on one type of box will be different from you could get on a different box.

As for the pre-amp, HDTV in WV probably has the CM7775 which is the UHF only version of mine. They have the same UHF boost.

Here are the Channle Master Titan 2 pre-amps:

7775 UHF - 26dB
7777 UHF - 26dB/VHF - 23dB
7778 UHF - 23dB/VHF - 16dB

So they are all very similar, but since there was only a couple of dollars difference between the 7777 and 7775, I went ahead and got the VHF capable one just in case the stations went back to their original frequencies after 2006.

Have you tried antennaweb.org to see what type of antenna they recommend for your area? That would be the best place to start.

Yes, I am in the violet area.
I guess I am in the furthest range.
The towers are near Winfield right?
I live in a two story house on a ridge-top with pretty much no foliage interference so I have that working for me.

Miles from says 32.9 for WSAZ and 25.8 for WCHS.
Should I stick to a UHF only antenna for picking up the DTV?
What I mean is, will having a VHF/UHF antenna work against my ability to pick up WSAZ wrt reception?

Darrin,

As far as I know, all the STBs have a signal meter, but until you hook up the antenna, it will not have anything to read. My Zenith SAT-520 has a signal meter for digital channels that I have used.

Based on the conversation I had with the Engineer at WSAZ, you should be able to pick up the signal fine with a preamp. You are around 15 miles North of me and live at a higher elevation. You may have a much better line of sight than I do. Just remember, if you buy an Antenna, and it does not pick up the channels, you will not be able to take it back. The 100 mile CM antenna from Lowes is around $100.

Another thing to note. Currently, WSAZ is broadcasting at around 750MHz (give or take). Late this year/early next year, they will be moving to full power HD, which is around 1GHz. When that happens, you will definitely be able to get it.

My 2 cents. I would wait to buy an antenna until WCHS, FOX and WOWK go HD at a higher power than they are now. WSAZ lacks in programming at the current time (IMO). I RARELY watch WSAZ (sometimes watch Vegas and the occasional movie they play). The good thing is the Summer Olympics will be broadcast in HD on WSAZ. I'm looking forward to that.

My biggest complaint is WOWK is not HD yet. CBS has made the best grounds in HD programming and by our local broadcaster failing to capitalize on it is beyond my thinking. I believe we are dealing with an 'older mind' generation who does not think anyone in WV knows diddly about technology. My CBS on DirecTV looks really good, but not as good as the OTA NBC HD I get. My Mits has a very dark tube, and it seems most of CBS's HD programs are very dark in nature anyway (CSI, CSI Miami, Without A Trace, Cold Case, etc.). But I'm not complaining because CBS is my most viewed channels and to have it in HD is great, but you can definitely tell that DTV highly compresses their signals.

FYI as well. HD DirecTV receivers have really come down in price. I saw a Samsung for around $299 at Circuit City. I've been extremely happy with my Zenith as it not only handles DirecTV and OTA, it also handles Digital Cable which is EXTREMELY RARE since the protocal for Cable is completely different from DTV and OTA. Now, if my local Cable Company would get out of the Black and White TV days, I'll be set....LOL

Darrin,

I just read your last post. You will be better off picking up the existing UHF channels with a UHF ONLY antenna. However, like Herdfan said, broadcasters are looking to go BACK to the VHF range after 2006. After all, one of the big FCC rules are getting back that bandwidth to auction off. That's why I went with a VHF/UHF antenna. If you get a good Channel Master or Wingaurd Antenna the 7777 preamp, you will be ok. Also, Lowes Model numbers are a little different than what you will find on the Internet. The CM preamp is actually made by Spartan.

Currently, the Engineers are masking the channel to where on many STBs, the channel comes up as say 3-1 instead of the actual UHF channel. I now forget what channels WSAZ is on (antennaweb.org), but it shows up as 3-1 on my Zenith.

Darrin, I have a Good VHF/Uhf antenna mounted directly beneath my CM 4228. It gets the VHF perfectly, but it was not acceptable to get WSAZDT, After I got the UHF 4228, I have not had a bit of trouble. I have a Zenith 420 STB which shows 75-85 on WSAZ. I had the UHF only preamp before I got the CM. I think after reading the previous posts, that you will not have any trouble getting WSAZ. I bought my 4228 from www.consumer-direct.com .
I believe it was around $42 plus $20 shipping. www.starkselectronics.com also has them. They sold me the VHF/UHF antenna and the Preamp.

Bill in Winfield.

Correction, it is a CM 4248 UHF antebba

Hey everyone just wanted to share my experience. I had a radio shack uhf antenna ( ?-90 model number) and it was on a 15 foot pole on top of my 2 story house. I would intermittently get signals but dropout became too bad to watch. I am referring to wsaz because the other stations suck and run their towers on 9 volt batteries. Any way I went to solidsignal.com and found an open box channel master 4228 uhf antenna for $20. I mounted it tonight at 10 feet instead of fifteen and still get a CONSTANT 70 signal strength. This antenna is much better than the radio shack antenna and I believe that would be repeated by others here at AVS forum. Any questions just post and I will answer.

Add a CM7777 amp and I'll bet you see the mid 80's.:)

I have the same antenna mounted in my attic and see 95 on my HR10-250. Watched the Belmont today in HD and it looked great. I also get WOWK-DT with a watchable feed, although they are not passing the HD signal.

Also, according to "FoxEng" who is an engineer for a NC Fox affiliate and frequent posted here on AVS, all FOX stations have been provided the equipment to go HD when FOX goes from 480p to 720p late this summer and they "are expected to use it." Now whether Sinclair will do it is another story, but lack of equipment won't be the reason.

Those of you that have not joined Darrin's WV home theater group should. In this weels news there is an article describing Cary's shady, politically ariented business deals. Further proof he is the antichrist! Just joking but it is carey who owns our cbs affiliate here in Charleston. He won't grant sattelite waivers AND he won't create an HD signal from his station. Give him a call and tell him you want your HDTV! He likes it, trust me I called more than 10 times!

Just thought I would post the reply to our letter to WOWK earlier this year about HDTV. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the letter we sent to post as well. His reply is entertainment enough :).


January 28, 2004

Mr. Darrin Holmes

President

WV Home Theater Group

Dear Darrin:

Thank you for your letter that I received.

We too are anxious to see the expansion and distribution of HDTV and digital television. I think all television broadcasters are excited about the possibility that awaits all of us with HDTV and digital.

I also have an HDTV set and unfortunately am not able to get any local stations with my set. The concern that all broadcasters have is that cable companies and satellite companies have not made any commitment to distribute local television broadcast signals with high definition. Currently, we have asked Charter, Direct TV, and Dish to consider such a possibility, but none of them currently have the capacity.

Also, importantly, is the prospect of distributing it in a way that assures the entire signal be broadcast to each of the homes. Once these issues are resolved, I’m sure you are going to find a very quick and certain expansion of high def and digital television. And we look forward to providing you that service.
Sincerely,
Bray Cary
President/CEO

Your reply should have been:
Dear Mr. Cary WSAZ has been doing OTA more than a year now! Get with the program.


He told me he really could not tell a big difference between HD and SD material. Do I sound that dumb?

cough, cough WHAT!!!

I was at Tony Bradley's place last weekend and saw Mission Impossible 2 over the Direct TV HD CBS feed out of New York and it looked awesome!
This is complete BULL, if you spend the money on the equipment you should have a right to that &#*&(( waiver.

Since it was over satellite it had to be compressed a bit so OTA would have looked even better.

Look at the bright side. Bray Cary is in the process of having his a** handed to him due to all these non-bid deals. At least it makes me feel better.:)

I too have CBS-HD via D*, but who knows what will happen come Thursday when D* lights up our locals. And I agree it is a little soft.

Herdfan,

I already talked to DTV about losing our distant feeds once the locals become available. They assured me once we have the waiver, we always have the waiver and they will not take it away. They stated we could keep the distant, get the locals or have both.

I was flipping through some channels this weekend and noticed 13-1 and when I went to an HD program, it lists it as HD, but so does 8-1. I can only pick up 3-1 (WSAZ). So, is WSAZ now broadcasting in HD? If so, I can't pick up a signal. I need to call the Engineer I talk to once in a while and see, but he didn't sound like he was completely informed when he told me a year ago they were HD :(

HDNET had MuchMusic awards on Sunday. Looked and Sounded GREAT!!

Originally posted by tonybradley
[B]So, is WSAZ now broadcasting in HD?
Yes they are. I get a signal in the mid 90's on my HR10-250. I also get WOWK's digital signal, but they are not passing through the HD feed. I get guide data for WCHS, but no programming.

My problem is I don't actually have any waivers. I was grandfathered in from way back in '94 when they would give the networks to anyone who asked. My neighborhood was new and cable was not yet down my street, so I asked for and got the distant networks. So we will see Thursday.

From: Holmes(Pres) Bradley(VP) [mailto:wvhtgroup@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thu 6/17/2004 3:44 PM
To: Bray Cary
Subject: Re: WOWK


Dear Mr. Cary
This is Darrin,
I would like to request your permission to come and conduct an interview with your head station engineer if he or she would be willing to answer some questions. Its purpose would be for our club members interest only and the interview would be posted to our free website. The address is in the signature of this e-mail if you would like to check it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send me your question via email and I will try to get you answers. thanks.

Bray Cary, CEO
West Virginia Media
(o) 304-720-6520
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE....
Here is the final modified list of questions sent to Mr. Cary on 6/25.

1.Is WOWKs' over the air digital signal currently in a test phase?

2.At this point in time, why has your station not adopted (transmitting the national network feed) a High Definition (HD) broadcast?

3.Where do you see WOWK in the next year with respect to providing HD broadcasting?

4.If WOWK is planning to broadcast HD what will the transmitting power be?

5.What do you feel is an adequate signal strength for an over the air digital signal in our area once a station begins transmitting its HD network feed? (Our point to this question is; the stronger the signal the more people they reach and the fewer complications their viewers have.)

6.If WOWK is not planning on broadcasting in HD within the next year, what data has pushed you to this decision? - If your data shows that few folks in the transmitting area have HDTVs, The group would like to offer assistance on speaking with Circuit City, Best Buy, Big Sandy, Sears, Sodaros and other businesses to formulate an approximate number of sets sold in our area. We believe we can show there is a need for HD broadcasting in our area at this time.

7.If WOWK is not planning on broadcasting in HD how can it compete with the other local stations that are? Stations such as WSAZ which activate their digital transmitter at noon each day deactivate it at midnight to provide HD during the prime time hours? If WOWK would like to run a trial, we have members with HDTV’s and HDTV receivers that would love to participate.


8.What do you think the financial advantages and disadvantages will be for your station once you do offer a HD broadcast?

9.It's not a secret; CBS has the MOST primetime HD programming available. We wonder why WOWKTV does not leap at this opportunity and begin transmitting HD broadcasts immediately. It would have a tremendous advantage towards growth over the other local stations. The WV Home Theater Group understands the FCC mandate regarding digital signals and that it states nothing about HD. Considering ALL manufactured television sets available for purchase in the middle of 2004 will have HD capable digital tuners why not get on board now?

10.What can the WVHT Group do to assist WOWKTV in obtaining any necessary information to help this migration along?

Herdfan,

I didn't mean to say WSAZ...I get that one. I meant WOWKTV, which you answered as well....thanks.

Well if there are no additions Mr. Cary will get our questions on Friday.

Thanks for your note. We are still waiting for a method to distribute the product. Cable and satellite are not willing or able to distribute.

Bray Cary
West Virginia Media
304 720-6520

We received this on Friday evening...
If this was the answer to all of our questions, then this guy has lost my respect and the groups' respect and we WILL let him know about it.
I intend on giving him a bit of time in hopes of some more extensive answers. Two weeks will be the deadline, at that point he will receive a reply.

WSAZ head engineer Bill Galloway has agreed to meet with me for an interview on behalf of the members.
If anyone has any questions for Bill please e-mail them to us with the link provided in the sigature.

I would just ask that you pass on our Thanks for being the only local station to step up to the plate and provide us a watchable signal. You may also want to suggest that they advertise the fact that they are the only one passing on network HD feeds.

Herdfan,

Did your CBS-HD station remain after the locals hit DirecTV last Thursday? I had a scare on Friday as it was not there, but when I called DTV, they said that NY CBS new it was out, and it's back on now.....woooo...close call.

I was talking to Darrin today about VOOM. I would definitely go VOOm over DTV, but at this point, I watch CBS more than anything and I can watch all my favorite shows in HD. I was hanging on to the hope that we'd have CBS OTA HD and I could switch to VOOM, but it appears we'll NEVER get it.

Here is what doesn't make sense. WOWK will not broadcast HD until the Satellite companies and/or cable companies cary it. Well, it's funny how technology goes in circles. OTA with an Antenna is the BEST way to pick up HD as you receive an Uncompressed signal. Where cable and Satellite are compressed (still look good, but soft and not as vivid). So, if DTV or cable companies agree to carry it, I bet those with HDTVs and the knowledge of how it works will PREFER the OTA signal anyway.

And people wonder why WV is a dying state and we are the last to get new technology. Well, we have the answer. Old timers set in their ways are running the show. Not that I'm bashing old timers as I know plenty that are still growing with technology. But, if you are unwilling to change in today's world, then it's time to get out of a position that relies on change. Remember, there is only one thing constant in the technology world.......there will always be changes. If the guy isn't an old timer set in his ways and is young, then shame on whoever hired him.

Originally posted by tonybradley
Herdfan,

Did your CBS-HD station remain after the locals hit DirecTV last Thursday?

I was talking to Darrin today about VOOM. I would definitely go VOOm over DTV,

Tony,

Yes, I still have my CBS-HD feed from NY. It took me a call to actually get my locals though. They didn't just turn them on. And there is no WB. I don't care but the wife does.

As for VOOM, it sounds like a great idea, but I can't give up my HD TiVo. And I don't think I can hit their bird at 68 as I have a hill on the SE side of my house.

As for network programming, I mainly watch CBS and NBC, so I am good to go. Would like to see MNF in HD, but I will get 6 FOX games a week in HD via NFLST.

I really would like to see WSAZ advertise the fact they are the ONLY place to see local HD programming. And with the Olympics coming up, it would be good for them.

Herdfan,

Good to hear your CBS HD channel wasn't taken away. I didn't ask for the Local channels, they were just there. When I called DTV, they told me it was free for the first two months.

I will mention to Darrin to be certain and bring up the advertisement fact to Bill Golloway at WSAZ. There are folks around here that have HD sets and HD tuners, but no clue that WSAZ is in HD. Darrin and I are trying to spread the word.

Bird at 68? Is this from north?
Is there a locator on VOOM's site?

Would you believe that Cary was a co-founder of ESPN?
My neighbor is distantly related to him and he filled me in on a few things.
Cary is LOADED and very business savy.

Originally posted by DarrinH
Would you believe that Cary was a co-founder of ESPN?

Not exactly. He was a founder of Creative Sports which was bought by ESPN. He also worked for NASCAR. Yes, he is loaded, but he won't give me HDTV so he can kiss my a**. He may be business savy, but the HDTV machine is getting off the ground and he is not going to be on it.

Anyway, here (http://www.be.wvu.edu/fame/2002/cary.htm) is his bio.

Originally posted by DarrinH
Bird at 68? Is this from north?

Rainbow 1 which VOOM is on is located at 61.5 degrees, which is apporximately 3 degrees EAST of Bermuda. Of course it is over the equator and not Bermuda, but you get the point.

DirecTV1 for example is at 101 degrees which runs near Lubbock, TX.

Hi guys - glad to see there are at least a few people interested in HDTV in this state. Been lurking around and found this thread; unfortunately I'm in the Morgantown area and don't have much to contribute to Charleston info. We've got Adelphia up here (I know, gasp, but wait...). I can't do the satellite thing because my house sits on the side of a hill that covers the entire southern sky and then some. Pittsburgh stations are >60 miles away and the one PBSHD OTA here is spotty at best. Some ray of hope though - Adelphia amazingly enough now carries CBSHD, NBCHD, ABCHD, HBOHD, MAXHD, STARZHD, ShowtimeHD, HDNet, HDMovies, ESPNHD, INHD, and INHD2 via my SA3250 box. Hope the trend continues statewide OTA and cable. Cheers!

Well I am in Columbus and get all the HD locals with two antennas on top of my television. Could not get Direct TV due to logistics in my new apt. Will have to go to Time Warner cable for hd, will get locals now both OTA and from cable. They have a ton of HD except ESPN over cable, once again Charleston is behind.
Ask WSAZ to increase their power so that we obtain a more consistent signal. The stations up here are at 1000 kW versus 425 kW for WSAZ. Also tell them thanks for their HD offering.
Bray Carey is the antichrist, I'll say it again!
Be back in one year, you guys keep pestering the TV stations. There are more people interested than they give credit for. Many people have HDTV's and are settling for DVD only because they are uninformed!

herdfan, so the satellite for VOOM is S61.5^E ?
I just want to be sure so that I can check my mounting location.

Darrin,

Here is a list from Lyngsat (http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/america.html) of all the N. American sats and location. Click on the SAT to see what it carries. VOOM is on Rainbow 1.

I will be meeting with Engineering Manager Bill Galloway at 10 am tomorrow morning in their Huntington studios. Below is a list of the questions the WVHT Group will present to him. I hope to have the interview posted on our website in a week so be sure to look us up and check it out.

We would like to thank your station for being the leader in local high definition broadcasting by providing a watch able over the air signal.

1.Why was WSAZ an early adopter of High Definition broadcasting?

2.What is the plan for the next year regarding high definition and WSAZ?

3.In your opinion, what is the foreseeable financial impact for WSAZ due to HD broadcasting?

4.Your current signal strength is 425kW? Why is this the current signal level?

5.What is the FCC authorized, full power level for WSAZ and is this level typical for stations outside of this market?

6.At what point in time will your station transmit at a full power level?

7.The digital channel for WSAZ is a UHF channel; however on most Direct TV HD receivers WSAZ is displayed as channel 3-1. Does this mean we are receiving a VHF equivalent of the signal or is the UHF signal being masked into channel 3-1 to make it easier for viewers to find? How does this work?

8.What is the process a station must go through to get a Digital/HDTV signal to be carried by a local cable company or satellite company? Give us a feeling for the business and technical issues that exist.

9.What is the reason why Charter does not carry the WSAZ DT/HDTV signal? What has to happen to have Charter carry it and when could we expect to see WSAZ DT on Charter, DirecTV and/or Dish?

10.If an over the air signal is all that you can offer for an indefinite period, can you give some guidance on how best to receive the signal?

11.With the Olympics approaching and the fact that WSAZ is the only station in the area to have receivable digital signal with a HD pass-through, why is WSAZ so silent in the marketplace about its capabilities? Wouldn’t this be a strong competitive advantage? If not, please explain the business reasons why.

12.Will the viewing of Herd games be enhanced by receiving them via WSAZ DT this fall? (I think WSAZ will carry some Herd football this fall.)

13.In your opinion, why have the other stations in the valley failed to begin testing a high definition signal?

14.Is there anything that the WV Home Theater group can do to assist your station in progressing towards a permanent digital signal with network high definition programming at full signal strength?

Originally posted by DarrinH
4.Your current signal strength is 425kW? Why is this the current signal level?
I think (I could be very wrong) I read somewhere that they were up to 750kW by now.

Otherwise it looks great. I look forward to reading the response.

I noticed last night that WHCP-DT showed up in my guide on my HD receiver. I could not get a picture, and my signal strength was around 20. Anyone else, perhaps closer to the tower, seeing this.

Any feedback from WSAZ yet?

Anyone know if WLPX-DT is down or at half power or something i have about half the signal has i sometimes do. Any one care to check their signal.My first post great to find you WV guys.

The interview with Bill went really well. I am going to try to have the transcript up soon. They do not look to go full power for another year to year and a half.

Originally posted by DarrinH
The interview with Bill went really well.
Did you know Bill left WSAZ and took a job with Emmis (Parent Company) in Indianapolis?

Maybe that's why Bill was so eager to pass on information about their company to the WVHT group...LOL...just kidding. I've talked to him quite a bit since they went HD and he's a great guy to speak with.

Well folks, I moved houses and I have yet to put up my antenna. I was looking to put up my Channel Master before the Olympics, but I found out DirecTV will have the Olympics on channel 84 beginning Friday at 9PM (Ok...you guys probably already knew this).

I think I may leave my antenna down because I found out that DirecTV will offer NBC and Fox very soon in HD. I have had waivers for the distant feeds for a couple years, so with any luck, the same rules will apply to NBC and Fox as it did with CBS-HD and I'll have CBS, NBC and Fox in HD on DirecTV. I haven't heard a word about ABC, but MNF would be nice in HD.


As soon as WSAZ goes full power so my signal doesn't drop so often and the others go HD, I'll gladly put my antenna back on the roof as OTS reception is MUCH better than DirecTV's compressed signal anyway.

ESPN-HD tonight...Ravens vs. Falcons. I spent 5 years in Baltimore, so Go RAVENS!!

Just talked to DirecTV & was told that customers in WV were not going to get the HD channel 84 for the summer games.

It seems that the DirecTV ADV is a bit of a fraud.
I did not catch any fine print of elibilitry of only some areas, I thought it said subscribe & get HD for the games.

Yeah it seems that since our local affiliate is broadcasting it in digital, we don't get it.

I watched part of the opening ceremony on 3-1 last night and it looked pretty good. Too bad I have to wait until Sunday to catch some of the action.

You know what frustrates me? Different answers. I called DTV to ask why I wasn't receiving channel 84 when I had the Waivers through NY and NE. I was told because I don't live in an O&O Market. Even though with CBS, if you have a waiver, you apply for CBS-HD. Not the case for NBC Olympics. However, I was told the rules are changing every day and before the Olympics are over, it's possible that EVERYONE with DTV and HD will get it. To be seen.........

Not an HD question, but... Has anyone heard when (if) DirecTV will add the WB/UPN station to their Charleston/Huntington locals

I talked to the station manager last week and he said that they are working on it. It seems the problem is they are having trouble getting access to the tower at the LRF to test signal strengths and get something working. He is still working on it and they hope to up on D* soon.

Thanks Herdfan. Is there anyone in particular we could contact to complain about not granting the WB-30 enginners access to the site?

Originally posted by herdfan
I talked to the station manager last week and he said that they are working on it. It seems the problem is they are having trouble getting access to the tower at the LRF to test signal strengths and get something working. He is still working on it and they hope to up on D* soon.

Was just about to ask question about the WB/UPN it's good to know it is at least being worked on for DirecTV. I wonder what the issue is because I know that DishNetwork has this station in any case I hope they are able to do get it working for the start of Enterprise in October.

To stay on the HDTV topic. Does anyone know if its even possible to get any HD (outside of WOUB) over the air in my area because of the fringe area? I have been looking at the DB8 at atennasdirect.com and the preamp they offer. I just don't want to be wasting time by setting the thing up and then having to ship it back if its not even possible.

Well I got the DB8 and PA-16 ordered from antennas direct. After going through the various sites recommend or at least popular on this forum they seemed to be the only one that offered returns on this type of equipment so if my area is way too out on in the sticks to receive anything I will be only out the shipping costs.


Will post update after I get it setup.

Herdfan,

I know you were able to obtain CBS-HD through DirecTV as I was. Did you also get NBC-HD?

If so, how does it compare to the OTA signal from WSAZ? Since I moved to the new house, I haven't reinstalled my Channel Master. Now that I get NBC-HD through DirecTV, I'm not sure I'll bother with the antenna until other locals go HD.

Theoretically, OTA should look better and is why I'm asking. Father of the Pride looked good on DirecTV but not as good as other HD I've seen. Seems as though DTV has lowered it's bandwidth for most HD channels to give more to HBO/Showtime and to make way for the NFL games through ST. It may be a better comparison in a few months.

Fox-HD is next on DTV. I"m hoping with DTV's announcement to add additional birds in the sky that can handle 1,000 Local HD stations, it should give Fox, WCHS and WOWK reason to begin their venture.

So what's up with the WSAZ interview transcript? It's been two months since the interview, but still no transcipt at http://www.geocities.com/wvhtgroup/wvhtgroup.html.

Let's see it ...!!!

Tony,

I did get NBC-HD, but other than checking it out, I have not really watched it. I guess I feel I "owe" something to WSAZ for being the only local outlet for HD. And all my TiVo Season Passes were already set up for WSAZ and I didn't want to change them.

Now if WSAZ starts flaking out, I will jump to NBC-HD. And I still may use the west coast feed to record something if I need to.

The good news is I got an e-mail from the station engineer at WCHS and he said that the new tower was almost complete and as soon as it was and the equipment got it, both WCHS and WVAH would be broadcasting HD at full licensed power.:D He was hoping for October, but said it could be November.

I am concerned about losing the D* HD feeds after December 31st when SHIVA expires. I am in kind of a no man's land in that I don't have waivers, but I have the channels. I am a leftover from 1994 when they would give them to anyone who asked. If WSAZ, WCHS and WVAH are all online, then all I will lose is CBS. But that will be bad since I watch Raymond and 2.5 Men in HD. I get WOWK-DT fine, but they won't pass the HD signal.:mad: :mad:

I too am concerned about losing my distant locals after SHIVA expires or new legislation passes. I live in a white area for all networks except ABC, but even that may be lost if new legislation passes. From what I read the NAB is lobbying hard to get rid of distant locals.

I urge everyone to write. call or e-mail Senator Rockerfeller and ask him to support Senator McCain's bill and let us keep our distant locals. He is on the committee which McCain chairs which new SHIVA bill(s) will come out of.

WV Senators contact info: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?State=WV

Herdfan,

Trust me, I understand completely about staying Loyal...especially since WSAZ Engineers have been so accomodating and they beat the rest of the networks to the punch. At my old house, I would have NBC, but as soon as the wind would blow and throw off my antenna just a smidget, I would start receiving drop outs. I live further away from the tower now, but live on higher ground. I just don't have a good place to install the antenna. However, I WILL find a way now that I know WVAH and WCHS will be going full power soon. Did they end up putting their Tower in the Teays Valley area? If so, that's good. We can point our antenna in one direction and get those two along with WSAZ. MNF.....Can't wait.

How does the OTA WSAZ compare to the NBC-HD through DirecTV?

Bikeman,

Darrin and I have both been extremely busy. I haven't had much spare time to help him on the webpage and his job has been keeping him busy. I'm sure Darrin didn't forget to put the Interview online, just too busy, but thanks for reminding me. I will start pushing him tomorrow to get on online for all to see. We have slowed down quite a bit on the Webpage as it appeared there were only a few viewers. Sounds like there are more folks looking at it than we thought. I'll try to post tomorrow with the response I receive from Darrin....if I can get ahold of him. He's working out of town the rest of the week on Flood Duty.

Originally posted by tonybradley
Did they end up putting their Tower in the Teays Valley area? If so, that's good. We can point our antenna in one direction and get those two along with WSAZ. MNF.....Can't wait.

How does the OTA WSAZ compare to the NBC-HD through DirecTV?


As far as I know, the tower is going back where it was. I will head over that way tomorrow and check it out. Where are you that all the towers will be in the same direction? For me they will be about 100 degrees apart, so I may need a second antenna with a combiner. My 4228 is very directional, so we will see.

I did a quick comparison. It looks like the D* West version is a bit softer that the OTA. I had Law and Order:CI recorded from last night after I forgot to record it earlier. That's where that West feed comes in handy. I compared it to the Law and Order from Wed via OTA. I will try to do a same show/same time comparison.

Now where I will watch the D* version is this Sunday, instead of calling WSAZ to tell them to "flip the switch" to put the race in widescreen, I will simply tune to D*. I would expect the NY/LA affiliates to know to put it in the correct mode without being reminded.

Tony,
Thanks for the update on the WSAZ interview. I'll keep watching the web site.

All,
I've re-read the posts about WCHS and WVAH broadcasting in HD before the end of the year, thinking I was delirious. Guess that will leave the thumb-sitter running WOWK as the remaining holdout.

Now to get Charter to pick up the feeds. I finally ordered HD from Charter, just to get ESPNHD and Discovery. It only took them two trips to get it installed, the second time with two engineers (VERY liberal use of the term.) And guess what, the goofy cable box has to be switched between SD and HD by pressing a key sequence on the front panel while the box is powered off. Guess they haven't caught on with that new-fangled remote control idea. wvudrj, if you are reading this, I know you are laughing.

Hey everyone I have been checking out the thread now with so many posts. This most recent news is very exciting in reference to the new tower. Most of you know I am in Columbus Ohio now and the HD options are impressive. I had to ditch my direct tv due to lack of line of sight. I kept the reciever hooked up and with INDOOR antennas get PBS, NBC, ABC, CBS all with NO dropouts!. Fox is too fickle for me to receive consistently. The big difference here is power of the towers, flat terrain and my proximity. Through our cable (Time Warner) I have an HD DVR and they offer ESPNHD, Local NBCHD & CBSHD &, THTHD, HDNET HDNET movies, HBO HD, Showtime HD, INHD1, INHD2. Things are better in HD.
I too noticed no transcript from the interview, and can't wait to read it. Hats off to WSAZ for their early adoption. The more power though the better the signal. The stations need to know we are watching.
Those interested in Locals who have not bought an antenna yet, do your research. The channelmasters are good. I had a radioshack antenna outdoor on the roof on a 15 ft pole. Only NBC came in but frequent dropout. Got a 8 bay channelmaster and got a solid 75 signal strength in charleston for WSAZ. Talk to the others because a early investment will get you FREE HD OTA. Don't count on or wait for charter to pick up our HD locals.
Be back in Charleston in July 2005, good luck and keep bothering the local stations!

Herdfan,

The last I heard, WVAH was trying to receive a permit in the Teays Valley area for their tower as my Sister in Law is on the Planning Commission. However, I never heard if it was granted, or if they opted to put the tower up in the same place. I'm located in Sissonville. If WVAH and WCHS were to go in Teays Valley, and with WSAZ in Ona (which was described to me to be near the Barboursville Mall????), then my Antenna would point somewhat West...maybe not exactly in the same spot, but should be close. My ChannelMaster is also very directional. I don't know the model number as it's the one Lowes carries. I will probably install a rotar when I reinstall it. Thanks for checking out the comparison for me. OTA should be better as it's full signal that is not compressed.

Bikeman,

I spoke with Darrin last night. He apologizes for not placing the transcript on the web page as of yet. He is out of town from today through friday. He stated that many were asking for the transcript and he will work on it next week when he returns.

Drj,

Glad to hear you are receiving nice signals in Columbus. Based on the conversation Herdfan had with WVAH, looks like you should return to all the Locals in HD....except for the one we do not mention :) (I think we should refer to them now as this as they aren't worthy to broadcast CBS material who has the most HD programming available).

Tony,

The tower is up in its old location and man is it tall. The top was in the clouds today. I guess they are still waiting on equipment.

The WSAZ tower is sort of in Ona, but not really. It is located north of Ona near the intersection of Union Ridge, Barker's Ridge and Little Seven Mile. If you go to antennaweb.org and plug in your address, it will tell you each towers direction and distance from your location.

Here is a copy of the e-mail I received from Raymond Beckner, Director Operations/Engineering for WVAH/WSAZ:


Mr. XXXXXX,
Both WCHS and Fox 11 have plans to pass network HDTV at full license power. Our DTV projects are underway right now with a new tower, transmitters and other facility modifications. We do not have a fixed date to be on air but hope to be on air in mid autumn 2004, perhaps October or November. The WVAH tower collapse in the ice storm of Feb.
2003 has caused us at least a one year delay.

Raymond Beckner, Dir Eng/Op, WCHS/WVAH

As for the one that should not be mentioned, I think we need to raise some money and place an ad blasting WOWK for not passing HD in
The State Journal, which is owned by WVMH and Mr. Cary. After the other stations are up in HD, we need to start a letter writing campain to the advertisers of WOWK letting them know we will not patronize their businesses as long as WOWK is not passing HD and encourage them to place their advertising dollars with the other 3 networks that are.

Bray Carey is the antichrist!

There, now I have vented.

Where are the towers for WVAH and WCHS, the digital stations are not listed on antenna web as of tonight.

I live in South hills suburb of Charleston roughly 33 miles from WSAZ tower at 300 degrees.

Also does anyone know the broadcast power for the local stations currently or in the near future?

Bikeman Said

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It only took them two trips to get it installed, the second time with two engineers (VERY liberal use of the term.) And guess what, the goofy cable box has to be switched between SD and HD by pressing a key sequence on the front panel while the box is powered off. Guess they haven't caught on with that new-fangled remote control idea. wvudrj, if you are reading this, I know you are laughing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I read this I thought of a line from the Usual Suspects when they are interrogating Kevin Spacey and tell him they can place him in Brooklyn the night of a crime and he tells them "really, I live in Brooklyn. What do you have a team of monkeys working round the clock on this one?"


That has consistently been my charter experience. Hapless, helpless, hopeless

By the way does charter offer an HD DVR yet?

Originally posted by wvudrj
Where are the towers for WVAH and WCHS, the digital stations are not listed on antenna web as of tonight.
I guess they are not listed as digital since they are not broadcasting it yet. I am assuming the digital will use the same tower as the analog. The tower is located on South Poplar Fork about 4 miles south of the Teays Valley interchange and about 1 mile north of RT. 60.

Bikeman,

Does your HD box from Charter have a FCC mandated Firewire port? If not, and you feel like messing with them, take it back and tell them you want the Firewire version mandated by the FCC. I would guess they will have no idea what you are talking about.

Speaking of Charter, I wonder what is going to happen when both ABC and FOX join NBC with HD local feeds. Charter has so far refused to carry the NBC HD feed. I would have to think the pressure will step up, especially with DirecTV commiting to the top 100 markets in HD by 2007. Of course, we won't get CBS-HD event hen as WOWK will still be dragging their feet and saying there are only 12 HD sets in WV.:D

I am still in Wheeling working flood repair contracts helping out District 6 of the DOH. This is great, great news about the HDTV at 8 and 11!

The WSAZ interview is on a videotape at my home but the camera has been loaned to my mom for her trip to Hawaii. It will be a while longer before I can watch the tape to get the transcript together. Most of what he said has been talked about before so there is no real eye opening stuff on there.

Sorry about the club and the website.
Here I started this group with a little response and it has grown quite a bit since I have not been able to dedicate any time to it.

Quote

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, we won't get CBS-HD event hen as WOWK will still be dragging their feet and saying there are only 12 HD sets in WV.
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(Smart a** tone) WOOHOO our numbers have grown by two whole people, last time I spoke with Bray Carey he told me only 10 people were interested in HD!

Bray Carey is the antichrist!!!

Originally posted by wvudrj

By the way does charter offer an HD DVR yet?

Yes, they do offer HD DVR. It is in the box you have to power cycle to switch from SD to HD ....ARRRGGGG.

Could someone in charleston obtain the power levels for the OTA stations. Last Time I checked WSAZ was 425kW and PAX was 1000kW. Pax ALWAYS comes in with no dropouts. It would seem that if PAX could afford to run at 1000 the other stations could also turn up the juice to reach the most people. A lot of us in the WV home theater club live a ways apart, it will be interesting to see who can get good reception of the various stations.
Also any more word from Bray Carey (satan himself) in reference to his sation being the last to do a HD and full power OTA signal. Perhaps a letter from all of us in the WVHT club as well as the AVS posters would let him know. The other stations are doing it why can't he?

Spoke to the head engineer at WVAH/WCHS today, to summarize:
1. The decision to go HD was made at the corporate level and the stations are following suit.


2. The power for the two stations will be 480kW each. This is slightly higher than WSAZ but will be augmented by the height of their tower which is taller than any other in our market.


3. The two transmitters still need to be installed, which is scheduled for mid October. He felt a realistic goal for going live was late Novembers. The plan is to pass the network HD signal, whether that will be immediate remains to be seen. We can hope.


At least they are working on it, unlike Satan's station (WOWK)

There may still be hope for WOWK. I say this because I spoke with Mr. Beckner at WCHS/WVAH when I moved back to WV from Baltimore a little over two years ago (before their tower collapsed). When I asked Ray (Is that his first name? Can't remember.) when they would deliver HD, he was VERY, and I mean VERY pesimistic that we would ever see it.

His exact words were "Nobody in WV has a big enough house to put in a large HD set because you have to set MUCH further away from an HD set than an SD set when watching an HD program". I told him that he had that backwards as the resolution of HD was better, meaning we could sit "closer" to the set. Anyway, he was very set in his ways. Nice man, but again, very bleak on HD. So, WOWK is being this way now. I'm hoping that they will see the light and move forward as WCHS/WVAH did.

Tony,

I wish I shared your optimism. The problem as I see it is WOWK is passing a digital signal, so there is no hammer over their head to do anything more but perhaps increase the wattage. Where is their "incentive" to pass HD. The other stations are owned by large entities and the corporate decision was made to do so, but BC has his own little world and can do as he pleases. I can't see anything changing this except perhaps CBS putting pressure on affiliates in general to pass HD.

I think it is going to take pressure on WOWK from the public and their advertisers before they will be willing to do more than they do now.:(

BTW, how does one join the WVHTG?

I emailed CBS today @ CBS.com explaining our situation with Bray Carey(satan) and we had exhausted our local efforts and we still wanted HD to be the standard. I doubt it will help, or anyone will even read it but it can't hurt.

wvudrj,

Make sure you keep us posted if you receive a reply.

Herdfan,

Unfortunately, I'm really not optimistic about it, just overly hopeful. These CEOs sometimes have no clue what is going on until their little 'worker bees' explain it to them. Maybe we should start pressuring Carey even more, along with the Engineering Department. I believe he's not focusing on the future benefits of HD, especially considering it's CBS who has the most HD programs available. I am going to talk to Darin this week and mention to him we should go back to Carey and state we would really like to have a face to face meeting with on of his Engineers as everything he has told us has proved to be factually incorrect as every other Network broadcaster in the area is either HD or have plans to move to HD. I would love to hear his reply now. We are not a bunch of stupid Hillbillies here!!

If you would like to joing the WVHT Group, just send us an email at wvhtgroup@yahoo.com. We'll add your email address to our weekly email (hasn't quite been weekly in the past month, but hopefully will be soon). We try to get together once a quarter or so for a dinner or lunch to hang out. We then try to go to a member's house and check out their system.

Originally posted by tonybradley
If you would like to joing the WVHT Group, just send us an email at wvhtgroup@yahoo.com.
Done.:)

My brother in law just got an HD sony rear projection. He is in Charleston and has charter. They came with the HI-def cable box late Thursday eventing. No HD hooked up though. They first said the work order had to be put in before HD service could start. That did not happen on Friday and on Monday still no HD. The rep just came to their house this AM (without calling) and then tried to drive off before they ould get to the door. When he finally came in he said the box they had was not a HI-def box in the first place. Of course he did not have one with him.
What is the matter with these people. If it was not an HD box it should not have had component outputs. How did they hook it up then???
How do they continue to amaze us with their lack of knowledge, planning, and performance???


I think Bray Carey is involved!:D

wvudrj,

You hit the nail on the head buddy!! That is my biggest problem. HT Magazine has completed so many reviews on different companies on their HD knowledge and it's been pathetic...with Circuit City ALWAYS being dead last.

My neighbor has an HD set. He's about 70 years old. He has Dish Network, the big Dish HD satellite that has the word HD all over it. I asked him if he had an HD receiver and he said "The Dish guy told me he put HD receivers in all the rooms". Ok, right then I knew something was wrong. Of course, he just has a normal ol' receiver. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a Salesman at Circuit City sell something to a victim and I listened to his outrageous explanation. Just insane. The best thing we can all do is continue to know what's going on ourselves, because the so called industry leaders (cable, OTA, DTV, Dish, etc.) have employees that have no clue.

Honestly, that's probably why Mr. Carey feels there are so few HD sets in the Valley. Many have them, but because it says HD, they think they are receiving everything in HD through cable.

Herdfan,

Thanks. We will add you to our distribution list and will work to start producing more news soon. Darrin is coming over to my house on Friday, so we may talk a little about the future of WVHTGroup and where we want to go with it. It seems we are hitting some new ground now with WCHS and WVAH (We are thinking another interview may be appropriate). With two interviews, it will be more ammunition to go to Carey and let him know the hospitality we are receiving everywhere but WOWK.

Further charter stupidity with my brother and sister in-law. After the "tech" yesterday informed them that they never had an HD box in the first place they rescheduled for today. A service rep then called today to follow up with their problems. She said " Are you still having problems with your cable box?" My sister in law told her she never got an HD box in the first place. The service rep then said well we will reschedule for Wednesday ( she already had an appt for today) which my sister in law then had to tell the lady she already had an appt. Once again the guy did not call before coming as promised and when he showed up......................



NO CABLE BOX at all, much less an HD DVR.


Proving once again Charter as a whole really stinks.


Go Direct TV!



Hold Charter to a higher standard!

That is absolutey horrible. I'd like to say "I don't believe it, but I do, I definitely do"

I have a GOOD Circuit City story for anyone that would like to hear it...I can email it. It has to do with their crummy service and how I made it all the way to the assistant to the CEO on several problems I encountered. I hope nobody here is very PRO Circuit City, because I wil bash them from time to time as I refuse to give them another dime. Maybe I'll add it to the WVHTGroup Website next week.

Today I went to a store called Genesis Audio in Columbus (they have a nice website) to check it out. The owner was very pleasant, open and informative. His AVERAGE install is 20-30 thousand dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I saw the 30,000 dollar Sony Qualia(?sp) projector, a 15,000 dollar runco as well as other very high end gear. He had even done a couple of installs in charleston!

We can all dream huh. It just made my wait to complete my fellowship seem all the more longer.


If anyone wants more info or wants to visit, my number I believe is on the WVHT club site that Darrin runs. There is a second store called Progressive Audio I believe here as well also with a website.


Can't wait to hear WCHS and WVAH are on air. Be back soon.

I just ordered a new projector (to arrive in approx. 3 weeks) and want to have my home theater set up when it arrives.

Does anyone know what kind of antenna I should use to receive hi-def programming in Charleston? My house is about one mile from downtown near the top of a hill. I have a D*TV dish installed on top of my house. I also have easy access to an attic.

1. Would the antenna that fits on the dish pick up all hi-def stations?
2. Is the attic an appropriate place for an antenna?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Rod welcome to the thread. I am currently in Columbus Ohio, but I own a house in South Hills in Charleston. You will be roughly 30 miles from the WSAZ tower and roughly 20 miles from the WCHS/WVAH tower when it is completed in Nov./Dec 2004. Before I moved to Columbus I was getting WSAZ HD OTA with a Samsung sirt160. My initial antenna was a radioshack UR-90 mounted on a 15 foot pole on the roof. With this I would get wsaz most of the time but some dropouts. I replaced this antenna with a channelmaster 4228 from solid signal.com. I put this on a ten foot pole and recieved WSAZ with NO dropouts. The channelmaster is very directional but should not be a problem for your location. You should also not necessarily need a preamplifier.



My point is buy the channelmaster from the beginning. Roof mounting is ALWAYS better than attic mount. Avoid the antennas that mount on your direct TV dish, they are low quality.


All of this info was gained by researching this website and trial and error.


Read this thread from the beginning to see how far we have come in Charleston in the last year. Also sign up to the WVHT group that Darrin runs for a local newsletter if you are interested. Our next goal shopuld be to get WOWK on the ball with an HD plan.

Good luck with your new setup. Any questions, just post them here and someone will answer!

Originally posted by wvudrj
You will be roughly 30 miles from the WSAZ tower and roughly 20 miles from the WCHS/WVAH tower when it is completed in Nov./Dec 2004.

I was actually going to post asking if anyone had any information on when WVAH would start broadcasting a digital signal. Antennaweb originally said 10/04, but now it says TBD. Your post brings another question though. Does that mean that WCHS and WVAH are both going to be HD when this tower goes up or just digital?

Welcome Rod and Sixy,

Rod,

An attic mouting will work, but as wvudrj points out, it is not the best solution. My 4228 is in my attic and I get WSAZ and WOWK(what good is digital if its not HD?) just great. My problem is that give my location in Teays Valley, the WSAZ/WOWK antenna and the WVAH/WCHS antenna are about 90 degrees from each other. So I am either going to have to try to put up an antenna that could possibly receive signal from both locations, which I don't think my 4228 will, get a rotor which won't work in my attic as I have the antenna raised as high up in the rafters as possible, or get another HR10-250 and a second antenna. I know I can get filters and use 2 antennas, but I could use the extra HD recording space anyway. I might try a 4221 on the roof to see it it will work and pull in both locations, but I'm not hopeful.

Sixy,

Here is a copy of an e-mail I received from WVAH/WCHS regarding HD power and feed.


Mr. XXXXXX,

Both WCHS and Fox 11 have plans to pass network HDTV at full license power. Our DTV projects are underway right now with a new tower, transmitters and other facility modifications. We do not have a fixed date to be on air but hope to be on air in mid autumn 2004, perhaps October or November. The WVAH tower collapse in the ice storm of Feb.
2003 has caused us at least a one year delay.

Raymond Beckner, Dir Eng/Op, WCHS/WVAH


This is backed up by wvudrj's conversations with the station as well. Looks like WOWK will be the lone holdout. I plan on TiVoing large blocks of programming to find out what local advertisers are using WOWK so that perhaps we can put pressure on them who will in turn put pressure on WOWK.

Bray Carey is BAD!:(

Welcome Rod and Sixy,

If you would like to join the WV Home Theater Group, feel free to send Darrin and I an email at wvhtgroup@yahoo.com. We have weekly newsletters on our website and get together once a quarter. We are meeting at the Olive Garden at Southridge on 11/13 at 1PM if you are interested. It's a fun time for all us HT buffs to talk.

Rod,

What projector did you order? Darrin recently purchased the Panasonic L500U HD Projector. WOW!!...it looks incredible on his homemade 92" screen. I'm going to be finishing the rest of my basement (beginning soon) and have a dedicated 13x19 Home Theater Room with a large wiring closet in the back. I can't wait to get started. You will learn a great deal on this forum.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that WVAH and WCHS will be HD!!!

DrJ,

What part of Columbus do you live? My brother just moved to ...hmmmmm....just forgot the name. I'll think of it as soon as I hit submit.

Dublin. See, I told you I would remember as soon as I hit submit.

Tony, I live in Hilliard which is 5-10 miles from dublin.

That's a nice area around Dublin. I will check out the stores you were talking about the next time I go up to visit my brother.

When I lived in Baltimore, I shopped at Tweeter....loved them. Do you know if there is a Tweeter in your area?

Have not seen a Tweeter here but there are so many places it could hide it would not surprise me. Probably could search there internet site.

Thanks for the Welcome Tony. If I am in town on the 13th, I will attend.

I preordered an ae700, and I am anxiously awaiting its arrival. I am sure I will have countless questions upon its arrival.

another antenna question - I understand that an antenna mounted on my roof (South Hills - Charleston) would be the best solution. However, this may not be a possibility (I am recently married).

I do not know where the towers are located. Could I receive decent HDTV reception with an antenna mounted in my attic? are there any recommendations for attic-mounted antennas in South Hills?

Rodsmith. I wish I could be technical with you and give you some answers. I live in Sissonville and went through the same thing. I gained a lot of information from the www.ilovehdtv.com on antennas. My Channel Master would not fit in my attic. Professionals say to stay away from this method. Your dB loss is greater when you mount your antenna in an attic. By how much vs. the distance you are from the tower, I'm not sure. This really makes me wish I would have taken antenna theory in college, but I opted not to (Gee Whiz....Antennas? Who would use an Antenna in this digital age?). Goes to show you how technologies come back around in full circle.

I can tell you this....after you purchase an antenna and set it up, you won't be able to return it. So, try to have a plan B just incase you attempt the attic and it doesn't work. You will need to be sure you have plenty of space as the Channel Masters are huge. You should be able to pick up WVAH and WSAZ when they are available if you mount in the attic, but you may need an amp, which would give you the equivalent to an antenna mounted 30 feet higher. Also, because of our mountainous terrain, it's hard to calculate and determine the dB you would lose or gain. Trial and error may be the best solution.

Please let me know what you think of the AE700. I'm not in the market yet, but my contractor should be completed on the framing of my basement this week. I have big ideas for the HT room, and the 700 is one of those ideas :)

rodsmith,

After you receive your 700U and have it installed, would you mind a couple visitors from the WV HT Group? Darrin and I were at my house today doing some brainstorming of my future HT room. I want the 700U, but there are a few things I would love to see in person.

If you wouldn't mind, shoot me an email at tbandkbradley@aol.com, or you can send it to Darrin and I at wvhtgroup@yahoo.com.

I finally got the antenna set up. Got a 88% for WSAZ-DT (3-1) according to my HR10-250. WOUB (20-1) comes in randomly usualy just for a few seconds then freezes and so on. The analog broadcast of WOUB is severely ghosted so I assume thats the same reason the digital broadcast doesn't come in very well. I had called DirecTV about waivers last month I figured I had waited enough so I asked them about it. I got approved waivers for CBS ABC & Fox. Didn't think I would get any of them so that was pretty surprising.

cocoon,

If you received the waivers, then you should have CBS-HD on channels 80 and 81 along with Fox-HD on 88 and 89. However, at this time, FoxHD on DirecTV is ONLY the MLB playoffs and WS. They are expected to be full time HD soon.

You have to have the HD Package and the waivers to get the DNS HDs. If you don't have those, call them and have them turn them on. At least until WVAH and WCHS goes HD.

Per Darrin, he talked to Ray Beckner and WVAH and WCHS is expected to be broadcasting in HD in 4 weeks.

Yup got the HD package after reading this forum or another one about the 6 month free promotion.

FoxHD that one is good to know I was wondering why the listings only showed baseball. I'm not really interested in the current Fox shows til Tru Calling starts up again so not a problem for now. I do wish there was ABC HD though but hopefully that wont be too long til the local ones broadcast. I hope the antenna can pick them up with repositioning it.

Thanks for the updates on the local HD situation.

Originally posted by tonybradley
Per Darrin, he talked to Ray Beckner and WVAH and WCHS is expected to be broadcasting in HD in 4 weeks.
Yahoo!! How long ago did he talk to him?

Herdfan,

Darrin spoke with him on Friday, 10/22. So, looks good that we should receive the SuperBowl in HD this year OTA....GREAT!!

I had it in HD last year via D* and it was stunning. I have a new TV for this year and am looking forward to it.

Also, Arrested Development begins the new season in early November, so Portia de Rossi will be in HD:D :D :D .

I received it last year via DTV as well. So, I'm really hoping I get it this year....which looks like we will.

WSAZ-DT seems to have a pretty good signal. I have been getting them sporadically here in East TN. I am just south of Kingsport, TN.

I've heard WSAZ-DT was being picked up by some folks in OH, but I hadn't heard about south. That's insane. How far is Kingsport from Charleston, as the crow flies? I would think this would be way out of the limit, but who knows. Maybe some phenominon is happening that you receive it that far away.

Do you have all your Locals in HD in Kingsport?

My guess would be that Kingsport is 150-175 miles almost directly south of Huntington. It is also in the mountains.

Does anyone know if DT signals can bounce off the atmosphere similar to the way AM frequencies do?

Good question. If I have some time, I'll do some research and see what method DTV uses. I think I have seen that it uses Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM), but not sure. But, that's just a method of modulation, so not sure how that affects the propogation of the signal.

There is a phenominon of what you are talking about. It happens at night time...that's why you can pick up some Radio Stations you normally can't pick up. Again....I can't recall what that is called, but maybe that is what is happening. Do you know the name of that? Has something to do with the ionisphere. (spelling?)

If DTV does in fact use QAM, then that seems like it would be similar to plain AM (Amplitude Modulation). If that is the case, you may have the same night time effect.

I did a quick search and DTV does use QAM. Also pasted is the Ionisphere explanation. Read if you want to.

* Digital cable television uses Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM).

* Direct broadcast satellite services use Quadrature Phase-Shift Keying (QPSK).

Combination tuners are already appearing that can support one or more DTV modulation standards. An example would be an 8VSB / QAM tuner for off-air and cable reception, or a DirecTV / Dish tuner that supports QPSK and 8VSB.

Digital HDTV transmission is designed to occupy the same 6 MHz terrestrial band now used in the US for analog NTSC broadcasts. A single NTSC 6 MHz channel can carry 19.2 Mbit/s of information using ATSC's standard 8-VSB (8-level Vestigial Side Band) modulation method. This is sufficient to carry up to 6 standard definition TV channels, or a single HDTV channel. As a side note, the standard for HD signal transmission over digital cable television systems in the US is now fixed as QAM 256 (Quadrature Amplitude Modulation), which is technically part of the DVB standard (but not ATSC) and is a de facto cable industry standard. This method has higher bandwidth than 8-VSB, allowing two 19.2 Mbit/s channels in a 6 MHz bandwidth, due to its lower tolerance for errors which are generally less of a concern in a wired environment. The ATSC standards included a provision for 16-VSB transmission over cable at 38.4 Mbit/s, but the encoding never gained wide acceptance.

Ionisphere.....maybe a specific time of the say helped him receive the signal.

The ionosphere refers to the upper region of the atmosphere where charged gas molecules have been produced by the energy of the sun. The degree of ionisation varies with the intensity of the solar radiation. Various cycles affect the amount of solar radiation with the obvious ones being the daily and yearly cycles. This means that ionisation will be greatest around noon in the summer and at minimum just before dawn in the winter.



The output from the sun varies over a longer period of approximately 11 years. During the maximum of the solar sunspot cycle, there is greater solar activity and hence greater ionisation of the ionosphere.

Greater solar activity generally results in better conditions for radio propagation by increasing ionisation. However, very intense activity in the form of geomagnetic storms triggered by a solar flare can completely disrupt the layer of the ionosphere and block communications. This can happen in minutes and communications can take hours to recover.
The ionosphere is not a homogenous region but consists of rather distinct layers or regions which have their own individual effects on radio propagation. The layers of distinct interest to radio amateurs are the E and F layers.


The E layer at about 110 km is the lower of the two. It is in the denser region of the atmosphere where the ions formed by solar energy recombine quickly. This means the layer is densest at noon and dissipates quickly when the sun goes down.

The F layer is higher and during the day separates into two layers, F1 and F2 at about 225 and 320 km. It merges at night to form a single F layer at about 280 km.

The different layer of the ionosphere can reflect radio waves back down to earth which in turn can reflect the signal back up again. A signal can "hop" around the world in this way. The higher the layer, the longer the hop. The longer the hop the better since some of the signal's energy is lost at each hop.

Lower angle radiation will go farther before it reflects off the ionosphere. So to achieve greatest DX, one tries to choose a frequency that will reflect off the highest layer possible and use the lowest angle of radiation. The distance covered in one hop is the skip distance. For destinations beyond the maximum skip distance the signal must make multiple hops.

The virtual height of any ionospheric layer at any time can be determined using an ionospheric sounder or ionosonde, in effect a vertical radar. This sends pulses that sweep over a wide frequency range straight up into the ionosphere. The echoes returned are timed (for distance) and recorded. A plot of frequency against height can be produced. The highest frequency that returns echoes at vertical incidence is known as the critical frequency.

WOW! You did some research.

I just had an idea as I am sitting here watching the game in HD via D*.

I know there is a meeting on November 13th out at Olive Garden, but I was wondering if it might be possible to have a coming out get together of sorts either on a Monday night or Sunday afternoon when we can watch a football game being broadcast in HD on WCHS or WVAH.

If Mr. Beckner would let us know when it was going live, perhaps one or both of his stations could report on a number of us watching MNF in HD via his stations. I know there are several bars/restaurants that have HDTV's, (don't know about HD receivers, but we should be able to provide one for the evening) and would probably love to a have a small crowd come to watch the game in HD and get their establishment on TV for a few minutes.

Just an idea.

It would also give us a better grip on the time frame.

And they could report that WOWK is now the only local station not broadcasting in HD. Anything to make Bray Cary look bad.:D

I was writing to see if any one had heard for a go live date for the other two charleston area HD signals?

Herdfan,

Sorry for the delay. We just had a baby girl on Saturday, so we've been busy making sure everything was ready late last week.

I think that is a pretty good idea and I passed it along to Darrin. Do you know what Restaurants in the area currently have HDTVs? I wonder if those establishments are equipped with an Antenna, and if so, if they would mind us moving it around to dial in the HD signal once it's live?

wvudrj,

We do not have a date set in stone, but Mr. Beckner told Darrin that it would be live in approximately a month....and Darrin spoke with him on 10/22. I would think it should be live the end of November or beginning of December. As soon as we get our feet on the ground with the new baby (and our 2 year old), I will also give Beckner a call.

FYI: I sent a long email to Carey regarding his lack of HD willingness. I mentioned that his big hang up on HD was that Cable nor Satellite companies have agreed to carry his signal. Now that DirecTV announced they will be providing over 1,000 Local HD signals in the near future, that should be the answer he was waiting for. However, he still won't move on it. Sounds like he has a fear of spending the money to broadcast it for free for the rest of us. Therefore, he wants DirecTV and Cable companies to pay him for the rights to broadcast his singal on their networks. He did not comment on WVAH and WCHS going HD. I also told him that the WVHT Group would be willing to help in anyway if he would commit to going HD ASAP. Stubborn ol' man!!

Tony,

Congratulations on the new baby!

As for Mr. Cary, I am keeping quiet until the new SHIVA is passed. If the new law passes as parts of it are written, then I will have to chose between my DNS and the locals. With 3 of the 4 being available OTA, it will be an easy choice. Actually with only 1 OTA its still an easy choice.:) After I chose the DNS under the new law, I will go on a letter writing campaign letting those who advertise on WOWK that I am watching network programming on CBS from NY in HD because BC and WOWK are not willing to do what 3/4 of the other stations have been willing to do. As a result, I will do my best not to patronize their business and will give more consideration to those who advertise on the other 3.

As for the MNF idea. It just came to me as I was watching the game in HD and they cut to a shot of a bar in Boston where it looked like the game was being shown in HD and the light kind of went on.

Depending on where we want to try to do it, I know that Uno's in TV has a widescreen TV (I'm am pretty sure) on their patio. That would be about 3 miles from the towers and would easily pick up signal with even a small indoor antenna. We could take over the patio. Hang a banner outside and enjoy the game. I don't know if Uno's in Charleston has a similar type patio or not. There are several bars around that do have HDTV's, I just can't think of any at the moment.

I wonder what the interest in WVAH/WCHS putting us on the news watching their new HD signal. I would think it would be a great way to kick things off for them.

Hope to see you all at Olive Garden on the 13th.

Originally posted by herdfan
Does anyone know if DT signals can bounce off the atmosphere similar to the way AM frequencies do?

Yes, kind of...

There are several different atmospheric phenomona which can cause signals to "bounce". These phenomona depend on the frequency at which the signals are broadcast, not the modulation mode used to attach information to the signal. Long-distance AM radio reception at night is possible not because the signals are amplitude-modulated, but because they are broadcast at low frequencies between 500 and 1800KHz. A frequency-modulated signal on 1170KHz would "skip out" exactly the same way WWVA's AM signal does.

(the U.S. over-the-air 8VSB modulation system is also amplitude modulated. The "8" is how many different discrete amplitudes are permitted.)

The phenomonon which causes AM broadcast signals to "bounce" is refraction off the *ionosphere*, an upper ionized layer of the atmosphere. As the frequency of a signal increases, it becomes more difficult for the ionosphere to bend that signal back towards earth. Eventually, a frequency is reached at which the ionosphere is *unable* to bend that signal back, and it shoots out into space. Usually, this frequency lies somewhere between 4 and 30MHz - well above AM broadcast but well below the TV channels.

On rare occasions, for unknown reasons, the "E" layer of the ionosphere becomes unusually powerful. The maximum frequency at which signals are bent back towards earth increases - sometimes to 70-90MHz (enough to bend TV channels 2-6); on rare occasions, as high as 220MHz. (enough to bend TV channel 13) E-layer propagation has never exceeded 222MHz, meaning <b>UHF signals (like WSAZ-DT on RF channel 23) <u>cannot</u> be propagated via the E layer.</b> (in any case, E layer activity above the FM radio band -- TV channel 6 -- happens for a few minutes a year, if that.) It is not generally accepted that the sunspot cycle affects the E layer.

The sunspot cycle <u>does</u> affect the higher "F" layer. However, the F layer is considerably less "powerful". The highest frequency ever reported reflected off the F layer is around 70MHz - in channel 5. Propagation above 55MHz - channel 2 - is incredibly rare.

The third phenomonon that "bounces" signals happens in the *troposphere*, a lower layer where weather happens. Unusual temperature profiles cause this lower layer to bend signals back towards earth. Unlike ionospheric skip, tropospheric skip actually works *better* at higher frequencies. It is common for UHF signals to be bent while VHF signals are not affected. Tropospheric refraction is related to weather - is most common when a stable high-pressure area is about to be overrun by approaching bad weather.

Tropospheric propagation is responsible for the reception of WSAZ in Tennessee.

Hi guys,
My mother is moving to your area and need some help for an antenna.
She'll be out Cyrus creek rd in Barboursville WV. I assume a good directional like a CM 4228 with a narrow bandwidth. I know multipath is a killer out there. What's been working best for your digitals? Thanks in advance.

A directional probably won't be a good idea. She will be, depending on how far out Cyrus Creek, less than 10-12 miles from one set of towers to the north and maybe 20 miles from the other tower to the east. She will have around a 90 degree spread and the 4228 may be a bit too directional.

I'll let herdfan tackle this one...he knows much more than I do about the digital channel orientations in our area.

herdfan,

I talked to Darrin about your idea. He liked it. He stated we should talk about it during our meet next Saturday at Olive Garden. Will you be able to make this meet?

We are looking for all the help we can get here at the WVHT Group.
If anyone wants to contribute Tony and I welcome it.
It has been rather hard to keep things up as of late.
herdfan, if you want to organize this on behalf of the group that would be great! I will help you as much as I can.

Here is a rough idea of where the towers are located.

The WSAZ and WOWK towers are located approximately 6 miles north of Mile Marker 22 off I-64.

The WVAH/WCHS tower is located approximately 4 miles south of Mile Marker 41 off I-64.

Hope this helps.

A close up of the tower's location.

A close up of the tower location.

Thanks for the info guys. If I can get up over the hill I think I'll be OK since the towers are very close.

Hi folks,

I wanted to remind the locals of our next WVHTGroup meet on Saturday, 11/13 at 1PM at the Olive Garden at Southridge. Darrin and I will be standing outside a little before 1PM for the new folks. He is tall (6'3 or something crazy) and I'm short (about 5'7"), so it won't be hard to miss us...LOL!! I hope everyone can make it. Nothing formal, just a bunch of guys (and ladies too if they want to come) talking about their Home Theater equipment and rooms.

FYI,

I talked to a fellow member yesterday who just received DirecTV. He also purchased the HD Receiver. He called DirecTV about waivers and they automatically gave him the Distant CBS-HD on the spot. This is how it's always been with CBS, so it confused me with wvudrj said he couldn't get it. I suggest calling them back and asking (you aren't here now, but when you move back) them to hook you up. If they say no, ask them why they are selective on who they give it to and who they don't.

wvudrj,

Did you talk to DirecTV about the waiver, or go straight to WOWK?

Just installed a CM 4228 and a CM 7777 pre-amp. Very pleased and surprised with the results. WSAZ, WOWK, WLPX, WPBY and WOUB all locking. 60-85 signal strength. (the only one I got before was WSAZ at 25 signal)

19 miles WSAZ,WOWK
21 miles WLPX
42 miles WOUB

I was concerned as I am surrounded by hills (about 120-150 feet above the roof line of my house). My plan was to run RG-11 cable and mount at the top of one of the hills. Decided to give it a try on the roof first (about 5 feet above roof for now), glad I did, very impressed with the antenna pre-amp combo. Hope to get the rotor wire run this week then raise another 10 feet.

Is anyone in the area pulling in Parkersburg or Portsmouth? Wondering if going the hill route would be worth it.

I tried initially through D* and they said I needed a waiver. I then turned to the antichrists company and a secretary said yes, then I was called back to be told 'NO WAIVER". The bray Carey saga unfolded from there!


P.S. Any one selling any land in the Charleston area worth buiding a house on? 4-20 acres? If so PM me.


Also any more news on a launch date for Fox and ABC?

I edited my original thread that started it all to include a smiley face instead of the frown. Though Bray Carey continues to be our nemesis the upcoming addition of two more HD locals puts us on par with a lot of the nation.

I can't wait to get back!

How is reception in the Point Pleasant area?

cbordman

See my post above, I am 8 miles south of Point Pleasant. WSAZ and WOUB are the only 2 stations I have seen that broadcast any HD content. Picking up the other channels digital but no HD. I'm not quite done with the antenna set-up yet, planning on 10 feet higher and a rotor hope to pick up Parkersburg,WV and Porthsmouth,OH stations.

wvudrj,

Sounds like maybe you talked to the wrong person the first time at DirecTV who didn't actually look at the list to see we have a blanket waiver. ABC, NBC, Fox and PBS all require DirecTV sending the waivers to the stations for acceptance or non. A week, literally a week before you were told no, my friend obtained the waiver. Now a WVHTGroup member JUST received it the same day he asked DirecTV. When you come back, if you go with DirecTV again, I would try to call DirecTV one more time......what is there to lose.

When will you be back to WV?

4-20 acres in the Charleston area. How far from Charleston are you looking to go? Jackson County has some areas with good acerage, but not sure you want a 30 minute commute to work. I'll keep my eyes open.

cbordman,

I have not heard anyone from the Point Pleasant area comment on OTA. Honestly, I would think that with a good Channel Master and a Preamp, you should pick it up fine. I do know that the Engineer from WSAZ said they did tests in that area. Other than that, I haven't heard. If you give it a try, be sure to post your findings on here so we can keep it for the future.

Originally posted by tonybradley
Sounds like maybe you talked to the wrong person the first time at DirecTV who didn't actually look at the list to see we have a blanket waiver.
Does Bray Cary know about this? I can't see him granting such a thing.

It was also good to meet you, Darrin and Joel on Saturday. Hope to meet more of you in the future.

I spoke to the antichrist I mean Bray himself on 2 seperate occassions and found him to be a liar and manipulator.

Jackson Couny is too far, but I would appreciate any help. I will be back in July 2005.

I have no idea if Satan knows about it or not. I doubt it. I wouldn't tell him anyway....LOL!!

Thanks for showing up at the Meet on Satuday, Dallas.

Did you enjoy your movie?

wvudrj,

I will keep my eyes posted for property. I assume you are not coming back to your old homestead?

I will be moving back into our old house (still paying monthly mortgage) but want to build a new house in the next several years on several acres preferably

Tony,

The Incredibles was pretty good. Too much for my 4 year old though. She will have to wait. They played the trailer for The Return of the Sith and it opens May 12th??. But the next movie I want to see is Ocean's Twelve which opens December 10th. Loved the first one, so I hope this one is not disappointing.

Jay,

Make sure you don't pick a place too far out or you won't be able to receive WOWK's 1/2 watt of HD power.:D

Also, the new Home Depot opened 2 minutes from my house. It is much bigger that the other 2 stores. Looks like it has a a lot more stuff. DataCom selection was a little disappointing though. I wish that some of the major retailers would carry stuff like Snap-N-Seal connectors and glow rods and all those fun tools you need to do HT.

I just got an email back from Raymond Beckner with WVAH/WCHS. He said they are working on their HD projects now and hope to be on the air with the station in HD by years end.

I just hope they are up by then as the NFL playoffs/SB won't be on ST. Plus ABC is considering doing their 4 BCS bowls in HD.

Maybe we will all get an early Christmas present and they will get it up by then.

A little off subject (again). But has anyone heard anything new about the WB/UPN station in Portsmouth getting on DirecTV as a Charleston market local. Or is that pretty much dead. We all thought that would happen by Fall (which I told my wife when we switched from Charter). Enterprise is one of her favorite shows and needless to say I have taken some heat about that :-)

Dallas,

Actually, it's good news that they are working on their HD plans, but bad news they are missing their first projected Date.

If all else fails, based on the HDTV Programming Thread, DirecTV announced that they will show the Superbowl. However, will it be like the Olympics where we will not receive it, or will it be like the World Series? KenH said he hasn't asked DTV, but he believes they will have Fox-HD up for at least the Superbowl.

Clueless,

I may have missed some original talks on WB/UPN as I've been wondering when that would be available to us. I wonder if DirecTV has waivers for those two channels? If so, I'd like to try for them now so when they DO become HD on DTV, I'll have them.