Sorry for the ambiguity, but I am extremely close to the source and I don't want to blow it I purposely said "needs permission" because I can't get into the details. They don't need permission from Raycom as as of now, but there are other things (things I can't mention) that Adelphia needs to do to go forward such as selecting the channel. (bandwidth considerations).

Another reason may be that there are certain cities in our system that may require 30 days notice. I won't name them, but in their franchise agreements, we must notify their subs 30 days in advance before we change anything. That was the case with the NFL Network. You saw a "free preview" for 30 days before we went live HD. A local channel might be waived because we already carry the analog and the digital. ESPN2HD is on the horizon, but it definitely is under that 30 day rule. (so are the others).

Not to say your source is wrong, but this just came down yesterday afternoon and I am that close. Sorry I can't be more specific. I hope they put a channel 1 message on with an exact date. You know if I find out, I will tell.

Hi All, I am a long time lurker, but first time poster. I have Adelphia basic hooked straight into my Mitsubishi 65815. At least in Chardon, it looks like WOIO-DT is on the air! It shows as channel 113-2, right above WVIZ-DT at 113-1. The TV says it is 16/9 hd. This afternoon, the Young and the Restless certainly looked hi-def... for the five minutes I could stand it.
By the way, great thread. I've learned a lot!

Good news, rljjr. I'm anxiously awaiting the presence of WOIO-DT for those of us who don't have QAM tuners.

While I'm waiting - a non-Adelphia issue:

Is anyone else having odd scanned channel issues with some of the OTA locals? I did a full rescan last night, and WJW ended up mapping to 31-2 (!), where it always used to map to 8-1 before. WUAB maps now to 28-1, where it used to map to 43-1. Both stations are running their correct HD feed in prime time on those newly mapped channels.

I have one of the USDigital STBs, and I know the local stations are going through PSIP changes. The only fully compliant station with PSIP right now appears to be WKYC-DT (back on my antenna in a rare quiet period for noise!), which maps properly to 3-1/2/3 and has program data now.

I figure that since WKYC is doing it right, and I'm getting them in the right places, the STB may not be the issue here...just configuration of the new settings.

WJW-DT is now back at 8-1.

WUAB-DT is still at 28-1, but now has program info!

PSIP = PITA ?

Do any of the newer HDTV tuners allow for more than
one station per channel?

Example: At 300 degrees I get 50-1 WKBD-DT from Detroit
but can no longer get 50-1 WEAO-D1 untill I rescan.

Both stations come in at about 50 on the F38310.

Thanks

Argh!! I tried the dipole. Made it just like a couple of sites said, and now I get EVERY digital station BUT that one! LOL! Oh well. At least it's better than the antenna I was using...

Still trying...

Originally posted by fpo701
I hope that the Adelphia announcement means that us Time Warner folks aren't far behind.

Can't wait to see JAG and NCIS in HD.

Amen. Then I can put away my Silver Sensor, or at least just leave it pointed in one direction to pick up WUAB (unless they get that also... I can dream, right?).

anyone know wht station 31.2 is? I got it to lock at 80% strength tonight, but there was no picture??? Weird. Just curious if I'm getting closer to WKYC-DT...

Is anyone with Comcast getting Fox HD audio in 5.1 or just DD? I am prepping for the Super Bowl, so I checked American Idol on Tuesday Night. I got DD, but not 5.1. I am trying figure out whether it is my setup or the broadcast.

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
Is anyone with Comcast getting Fox HD audio in 5.1 or just DD? I am prepping for the Super Bowl, so I checked American Idol on Tuesday Night. I got DD, but not 5.1. I am trying figure out whether it is my setup or the broadcast.

I did not check my receiver last night to see if American Idol was broadcasting in audio 5.1, but it did sound like it was. I was using an OTA signal and there seemed to be some slight ambient sounds on the rear channels.

However, the football games on FOX have had pretty good use of audio 5.1 in the past, so I expect it would be good for the Super Bowl.

I know you have Comcast, but as a general rule, the OTA HD 5.1 has been good on FOX.

I have Adelphia, and when I watch FOX it always reads Dolby Digital. It's clearly 5.1 because different sounds come from all speakers. Now my receiver also has a Dolby 5.1 analog setting which I don't use because my rear speakers are wireless.

Do you see other shows coming in as Dolby 5.1?

Do you see other shows coming in as Dolby 5.1?
I really haven't seen any Comcast Local HD broadcast in 5.1. My A/V receiver and the cable info displays the locals as Dolby Digital which my receiver converts to Dolby Prologic II. This happens with some of the other HD channels. From my understanding the Dolby Digital that I am getting is 2 channel sound unless it shows the 5.1. Every so often one of the premium channels broadcasts in 5.1, which my receiver and the cable info states.

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
I really haven't seen any Comcast Local HD broadcast in 5.1. My A/V receiver and the cable info displays the locals as Dolby Digital which my receiver converts to Dolby Prologic II. This happens with some of the other HD channels. From my understanding the Dolby Digital that I am getting is 2 channel sound unless it shows the 5.1. Every so often one of the premium channels broadcasts in 5.1, which my receiver and the cable info states.

I understand. Well, when I get a 5.1 broadcast that's when my receiver shows Dolby Digital.....kind of a scrolling Dolby Digital. It also shows Dolby Digital(but not the scrolling one) on non 5.1 shows and Pro Logic II takes over. I can also use Pro Logic II on converted analog to digital shows and it works pretty good too.

I picked up a Samsung SIR-T451 receiver last night in the hopes of experimenting with QAM reception. Boy, what a disappointment.

I have a left-over Adelphia feed from the previous owner and also my regular Wide Open West feed.

The long and short of it is on Wide Open West all I can get is the InDemand barker channel. I have not gone through all the Adelphia channels yet because the Samsung box has an awful design that forces you to go through every QAM channel, mostly encrypted, and wait 20 or 30 seconds for it to figure this out, and change to the next channel. Not wanting to waste another hour on that effort, it was time to go to bed...

You can read my experience here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=504835

Hey Everyone, I have a quick question.

I live in downtown Cleveland and am considering a 37" LCD with built in tuner/Cable card slot by Sharp. Does anyone own one of these?

If so, how does the SD image look? Our building was recently re-wired so I expect that it will look decent, but wanted to be sure because I have heard that the image quality on LCD TV's is mainly due to cable company.

Would it be easy to get OTA HD in downtown? i looked on antennaweb and the stations are ~7 miles from my place. BTW i'm on the 4th floor with a balcony facing south.

Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by hookbill
Well, when I get a 5.1 broadcast that's when my receiver shows Dolby Digital.....kind of a scrolling Dolby Digital.
Do you get the scrolling Dolby Digital for 5.1 on FoxHD?

Originally posted by Daniel Eddy
Do you get the scrolling Dolby Digital for 5.1 on FoxHD?

Yes. Whenever 5.1 comes in that's when I get the scrolling message. Other then that it's Dolby Pro Logic and I can select Pro Logic, Movies, or Music. Of course if it's something in hd but not 5.1, like local news then I just get Dolby Digital Pro Logic.

Originally posted by padstack
anyone know wht station 31.2 is? I got it to lock at 80% strength tonight, but there was no picture??? Weird. Just curious if I'm getting closer to WKYC-DT...

See my message above - 31-2 is WJW-DT, as they're apparently playing with their PSIP stuff to get it ready.

After a while, I rescanned and it showed up at 8-1, as it should.

WKYC-DT is a tough catch if you're not using the proper antenna. As a "low-VHF" station (DT 2), it is subject to all sorts of electrical noise and other crap. The only way you're gonna solve this is A) get a properly tuned outdoor antenna (more than likely) that is designed to pick up channel 2 or B) wait until WKYC-DT decides to move off DT 2, which may or may not ever happen ;)

For more help with the antenna stuff, post in the Official Antenna Thread in this section of AVS Forum (HDTV -> Local HDTV Info -> Official Antenna Thread).

Originally posted by hookbill
Yes. Whenever 5.1 comes in that's when I get the scrolling message. Other then that it's Dolby Pro Logic and I can select Pro Logic, Movies, or Music. Of course if it's something in hd but not 5.1, like local news then I just get Dolby Digital Pro Logic.
Thanks for all of your help. It seems the shows that are on tonight are in 5.1. It must have been a fluke thing.

TWC NEO (N. Canton) has no WKYC and PBS feeds (80.1/2/3/4/5) tonight-and last night they were pixelating badly. It's not my STB, as they are gone from one my neigbor's set a couple of doors down, too. Remapped and they don't seem to have migrated anywhere. Anyone know what's up?

Sounds like some of their equipment took a dive.

We saw the same problem with Adelphia and some of their HD channels a while back.

Since you listed the QAM channels and they all appear to be in the same block (80), I'd guess that is what is going on...

grayta,

I'm trying to understand what you are talking about. Time Warner NEO has only two PBS channels. They are WNEO-HD (46-1) on 549 and WNEO-DT (46-2) on 550. I'm not sure what the 80.* you are refering to are.

As for WKYC, looked sort of fine to me. I was away, but did record Joey to my DVR. The first 1/2 had quiet audio out of the center channel, but they fixed it after the 1/2-point commercial. ER was perfect.

Originally posted by fpo701
I'm trying to understand what you are talking about. Time Warner NEO has only two PBS channels. They are WNEO-HD (46-1) on 549 and WNEO-DT (46-2) on 550. I'm not sure what the 80.* you are refering to are.

Those are the underlying "QAM" channels, which is the standard they use to put the digital cable channels on the system...before the box takes over. If you have a tuner box that picks these unscrambled channels up without the cable box, that's where they show up. The box remaps them to whatever channel TWC wants to put them on.

I don't think he was talking about more "PBS channels" than TWC NEO carries, unless they've got WVIZ-DT in there somewhere.

Re: NBC last night...it apparently was a nationwide problem.

Other topics:

* For some reason, I'm still getting WKYC-DT with a decent signal and my indoor antenna. I'm not sure why. It comes in for a few days and then goes away, almost all the time.

* I rescanned DT 28, and WUAB is back in place on remapped 43-1. WUAB is passing program info on the PSIP now, and sister WOIO-DT is not, yet. Others passing program info now include WKYC (on all three subchannels) and WDLI (on two of four subchannels). No one else in the market is passing programming info, yet.

* No sign yet of WOIO-HD on Adelphia, though as an earlier post indicated, we know it's at least "in the system", if only for folks with QAM tuners. Hoping for it soon!

Does anyone have a list of the visible QAM channels on Time Warner Cable?

I did know that some locals were on the 80-x block and some were on 104-x, but was curious to see what everyone elses receiver found.

I bought the LG 3200A combo unit and saw more channels than I did with the 4100 I replaced it with. I saw some channels like ESPN HD that I don't see anymore. :rolleyes:

Ron

Everyone,

Check it out. Time Warner has added WOIO HD to its local HD lineup. It is on 541. See. I told you we TW guys weren't far behind if that other cable market added them.

Looks like it is time to update the DVR schedule to record HD JAG and NCIS!!!

Frank

Originally posted by fpo701
Everyone,

Check it out. Time Warner has added WOIO HD to its local HD lineup. It is on 541. See. I told you we TW guys weren't far behind if that other cable market added them.

Looks like it is time to update the DVR schedule to record HD JAG and NCIS!!!

Frank

Not far behind? You got it before Adelphia did (at least delivered to the custormer). I'm jealous!!!!!!

Originally posted by hookbill
Not far behind? You got it before Adelphia did (at least delivered to the custormer). I'm jealous!!!!!!

Ah. That's right. I knew I read something about that here. Its back one page. You mentioned it was coming.

I'll let you know it looks tonight. ;)

Someone earlier in the thread said they were getting WOIO-HD on Adelphia, using a QAM tuner. It can't be THAT far away.

Ok, something is wrong. The other day I got House recorded in segments. 4 different showings starting and beginning at various times. Same thing happend last night with Point Pleasant.

Now today I see that I only got 25 minutes of the Apprentice, 4 minutes of the First 48 (A&E) and 55 minutes of Without a Trace.


Anybody else have similar problems last night?

ewww, that doesn't sound good. "Point Pleasant" recorded ok on the HDTivo(my new favorite show, except for "Alias" of course...). If your cable box continues this, maybe a reboot by unplugging will do the trick.

Just checked my TWC NEO (Canton), WOIO is indeed up and looking sharp (on QAM Channel 100.1). However, WKYC (80.1, 80.2 and 80.3) and PBS (80.4 and 80.5) are a no go-they will barely lock and pixelate badly. I've got to assume the two events may be related somehow, so, if they are, I hope the TWC guys get it straightened out... and soon!

Originally posted by hookbill
Anybody else have similar problems last night?

No, I'm fine!

:D

(I just had to say that to drive you nuts. I didn't record any of these shows, and I have an 8000HD. ;) )

Originally posted by hookbill
Ok, something is wrong. The other day I got House recorded in segments. 4 different showings starting and beginning at various times. Same thing happend last night with Point Pleasant.

Now today I see that I only got 25 minutes of the Apprentice, 4 minutes of the First 48 (A&E) and 55 minutes of Without a Trace.


Anybody else have similar problems last night?

My wife recorded American Idol on Weds. on our 8300HD & it recorded in 3 segments. Two 2 minute recordings & one 23 minute recording. The rest didn't record. :(

Originally posted by Dweezilz
My wife recorded American Idol on Weds. on our 8300HD & it recorded in 3 segments. Two 2 minute recordings & one 23 minute recording. The rest didn't record. :( I've seen that happen here occasionally. I assume that it is because of dropouts in the source signal. They're relatively rare, but they still happen sometimes.

Enhanced Propagation today!!

Do a Channel Scan

Getting Toledo, Detroit, Mt. Clemons, Erie, Y-town.

/Dan

Is anyone in the Adelphia-South Suburbs area receiving in-the-clear HD locals with a QAM tuner? I was getting these channels on 105-nn for a while, but they suddenly cut out. Re-scanning didn't find them. I'm trying to figure out if this is a problem with my set (Mits WD-52525) or if Adelphia turned these channels off.

Thanks for any help.
...Phil

Originally posted by vthakkar
Hey Everyone, I have a quick question.

I live in downtown Cleveland and am considering a 37" LCD with built in tuner/Cable card slot by Sharp. Does anyone own one of these?

...

Would it be easy to get OTA HD in downtown? i looked on antennaweb and the stations are ~7 miles from my place. BTW i'm on the 4th floor with a balcony facing south.

Thanks in advance

Personally, I wouldn't get a TV with a built in tuner. They're more expensive and may not work well for your needs. I bought a Samsung 43" DLP without built in tuner. I guess you could try the Sharp and return it if you couldn't pick up the OTA stations.

I live in Ohio City and can get 5 of the 7 digital locals. I can't get CBS at all. And PBS, only if I mount my antenna outside. I have a SquareShooter mounted in my attic. This weekend I tried to mount it outside and my reception got worse. I have problems with multipath.

I would suggest getting a receiver that handles multipath pretty well. I've heard that the LG OTA receivers are good. I haven't tried them yet. I have DirecTV and needed a receiver that handles both it and OTA. So, I have a Samsung 360.

Good luck.

That's right, kids. We all knew it should be coming. Since the same company owns both WOIO and WUAB, it was bound to happen soon.

This evening WUAB HD is sitting at position 544 on Time Warner NE Ohio!!!

Originally posted by fpo701
That's right, kids. We all knew it should be coming. Since the same company owns both WOIO and WUAB, it was bound to happen soon.

This evening WUAB HD is sitting at position 544 on Time Warner NE Ohio!!!

Grumble Grumble.....Come on Adelphia!!!!! Quit pulling on your....... and let's at least get WOIO going!!!!

Originally posted by hookbill
Grumble Grumble.....Come on Adelphia!!!!! Quit pulling on your....... and let's at least get WOIO going!!!!

At least we know Adelphia has WOIO "lurking under the surface" (re: the QAM tuner report from someone earlier in this thread). I just can't wait till they bring it into the box!

I am surprised that I am the only one to have reported on WOIO-DT. Does no one else have Adelphia and a QAM tuner? My wife is a huge fan of Everybody loves Raymond. After seeing it tonight in HD, she noticed details in the Barone household that she had not seen in all her years of watching the show! She almost agreed to an antenna on the roof so we can record it on our HDTivo.

Bob

Are you pulling in WUAB with theQAM tuner?

Are you pulling in WUAB with theQAM tuner?

I did another channel scan this morning, and did not see WUAB-DT on Adelphia. It either isn't in there or isn't in the clear.

Bob

Is 5-1 and 8-1 down for anybody else now??

No problems with either WEWS-DT or WJW-DT here, both OTA and Adelphia.

Look for that radar to go away on WKYC-DT in the next few months, replaced by a full-fledged weather channel:

http://www.brandweek.com/brandweek/features/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000789766

"NBC Weather Plus, NBC Universal's digital 24-hour national and local weather network, announced distribution agreements with Gannett Television Group, Raycom Media and Clear Channel, increasing the network's reach to 60 percent of U.S. households, from 30 percent. Through the deals, 22 TV stations over the next several months will begin broadcasting NBC Weather Plus, including Gannett's KUSA in Denver and WKYC in Cleveland;"

I hope it's not even more bandwidth stealing than the radar already is.

I've seen this channel in a video demo. It might require a LITTLE more bandwidth, as it has some moving graphics and such, but not much more. I don't believe there is any live video on the channel.

Originally posted by Inundated
I don't believe there is any live video on the channel.

Any live audio? Wouldn't that take a little more bandwidth by itself?

And like I've said all along; 3-3 is a drop in the bucket toward the degradation of the picture quality of 3-1. It's 3-2 that needs to be eliminated.

Still waiting for the "good business reasons" that 3-2 is still around. :rolleyes:

I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month."

No firm start date again, but this is just more confirmation that it is coming.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Any live audio? Wouldn't that take a little more bandwidth by itself?

Audio takes significantly less bandwidth than video. I'm guessing the changeover on 3-3 will take about a meg or two extra.

And you're right...3-3 isn't the problem child, the SD simulcast is. Did they say they use it to feed cable systems? I thought they had mostly fiber feeds to the big systems locally (Cox, Comcast, Adelphia, TWC).

Originally posted by hookbill
I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month."

No firm start date again, but this is just more confirmation that it is coming.

Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right? ;)

Signed,
Mr. Impatient

Originally posted by Inundated
Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right? ;)

Signed,
Mr. Impatient

I'm right there with you! I've been checking every morning since handsworth first told us!

I also mentioned WUAB to her but she didn't comment on that one.

Originally posted by PhilO
Is anyone in the Adelphia-South Suburbs area receiving in-the-clear HD locals with a QAM tuner? I was getting these channels on 105-nn for a while, but they suddenly cut out. Re-scanning didn't find them. I'm trying to figure out if this is a problem with my set (Mits WD-52525) or if Adelphia turned these channels off.

Thanks for any help.
...Phil

After hitting "reset" on the TV, I can answer my own question - the set was the problem, and I'm now seeing the digital channels via the QAM tuner. I can't wait for the channel scan to finish to see if I can pull in WOIO in high-def!

Updated: There it is - NCIS in high def on 113-2 !!

PhilO- I am glad you are able to get WOIO-DT. I was beginning to question if I was the only one seeing this channel!
Bob

Originally posted by hookbill
I thought I would just pass on that my contact at Adelphia has now also confirmed to me that WOIO should be available "within the next month." Still no news on WUAB? And while they're at it, they really should be negotiating with the WB folks - they're going to get HD on the air eventually. Wouldn't it be nice if cable could be right there with them?

Several stations across the country provide cable only HD feeds.

The most prominent is the FOX affiliate in Albany, which is having channel allocations problems with its OTA DT signal, much like WBNX. (The biggest problem...their channel assignment, 7, is shared with among others WABC/New York's analog channel.) They've been feeding an HD feed to Time Warner Cable there for a year or more.

The FOX affiliate in the Santa Barbara/Santa Maria/San Luis Obispo, CA market just lit up an HD cable feed on one of the MSOs there. The "station" is actually a combo of three LPTVers in each major city of the market, and digital LPTV is only now becoming a reality.

So yes, it'd be possible for WBNX to feed a "cable only HD feed" to TWC/Adelphia/Cox/Comcast or one of them. Whether they have the HD equipment in place aside from the DT transmitter, I don't know.

Originally posted by Inundated
Say, tomorrow is "within the next month", right? Right? ;)

Signed,
Mr. Impatient

Umm. It's "tomorrow". Any luck?

If it makes you feel any better, my WUAB HD feed was down this morning. Not sure if it was a problem at Time Warner or if it was down for everyone.

Hey OTA guys, anyone have problems with WUAB?

That's right fpo701....Open the wound and throw salt in it:) .

No we didn't get it today. But it will happen sometime within the next 30 days. Hopefully.

May a giant wave of pixelation infect your hd set tonight!:D

Originally posted by fpo701
If it makes you feel any better, my WUAB HD feed was down this morning. Not sure if it was a problem at Time Warner or if it was down for everyone.

Hey OTA guys, anyone have problems with WUAB?

FWIW, Wide Open West had problems with WUAB-DT last week. I happened to see that Veronica Mars was on the regular channel but when I flipped to the HD channel, got a black screen.

looks like your gonna have to rescan....

WUAB-DT 43-1 (28) is showing up as 28-3 OTA.

/Dan

OK, WUAB was pushing through a nearly full signal and no picture. Rescanned 28, and it's back...but still at 43-1 (where it should be), not 28-3 (as reported above) or 28-1 (which I saw earlier in the week).

It looks like Raycom is using WUAB-DT as their PSIP test bed!

I'm still trying to figure out why the digital sides of Channels 5, 8 and 19 are not sending programming information via the PSIP data. I thought that was mandatory now? If Channel 17 got its act together and did it...and 19's sister 43 has done it...why not WEWS, WJW and WOIO?

WOIO's HD feed is live on Adelphia 704.

At least in my house. :)

No guide data yet. It JUST, and I mean JUST, showed up about 2 minutes ago.

Not getting WOIO on 704 here in Shaker Heights yet.

Maybe it's something Adelphia has to push through its various sub-systems...and it hasn't gotten to the east side yet? ;)

It's here in the Adelphia's territory in the Akron area...watching it now. Still no guide data yet, so I can't record anything...

(At this point, Hookbill is muttering and cursing, and saying "damn, does he have a special Adelphia line at his house???") :D

Originally posted by Inundated
(At this point, Hookbill is muttering and cursing, and saying "damn, does he have a special Adelphia line at his house???") :D

Yep, it's not up here yet either:mad: Maybe later today????? I'll be checking through the day. I'm in Bainbridge.

Looks like all you Adelphia guys had to do was put that pixilation curse on everyone.

A few posts back, someone mentioned channel 17. What's on there that's worth HD?

Originally posted by fpo701
A few posts back, someone mentioned channel 17. What's on there that's worth HD?

Absolutely nothing. ;)

Channel 17 (DT 39) is WDLI, a station owned and operated by religious broadcaster Trinity Broadcasting Network. It's licensed to Canton, but the DT transmitter is in the Akron area...up in Copley, with WVPX/23 and WONE/97.5, not terribly far from Rolling Acres Mall. (The analog stick is out at the original WJAN-TV studios in Louisville, in Stark County...right along U.S. 62 northeast of Canton.)

No HD programming at all, not even religious. They use 4 SD subchannels, the main OTA (TBN) signal and three specialized channels.

Inundated, have you got guide data yet?

Still no WOIO as of this posting in Bainbridge.

Originally posted by hookbill
Inundated, have you got guide data yet?

Still no WOIO as of this posting in Bainbridge.

A friend of mine in North Olmsted says that WOIO is on but no guide data.

North Olmstead isn't too far away from Bainbridge....maybe it is moving East.

WOIO-HD now has guide data here in northwest Akron.

Hookbill - I keep forgetting you're in Bainbridge. I was near there to pick up something at the Circuit City on the edge of Aurora!

If you're there, you're on the different system, right? We talked about you having the old "Western Reserve" lineup, if I remember right. Looks like they got to us first. :)

Originally posted by Inundated
WOIO-HD now has guide data here in northwest Akron.

Hookbill - I keep forgetting you're in Bainbridge. I was near there to pick up something at the Circuit City on the edge of Aurora!

If you're there, you're on the different system, right? We talked about you having the old "Western Reserve" lineup, if I remember right. Looks like they got to us first. :)

Yeah, I live real close to that Circuit City. Just around the other side of Geauga Lake. Matter of fact even though I live in Bainbridge I have an Aurora zip code.

Maybe that you have guide data they will be closer to giving it to us now! It's all good, I can wait another day or so...I think.:)

Originally posted by hookbill
Maybe that you have guide data they will be closer to giving it to us now! It's all good, I can wait another day or so...I think.:)

You must be coming out of a different headend or something... your lineup has, for example, WOIO (analog) on cable 10. We have it on 4, and WOIO-HD is 704 here... I wonder if you'll get it on 704 or 719?

Keep checking! It's likely coming soon...

No, WOIO comes on 4 here. If you went by my zip code that doesn't work for where I live. But we know we're on something different, that was shown with the data problem a while back.

As of now, still nothing in Shaker Heights.

What do we pay our taxes for????

:-)

Originally posted by jtscherne
As of now, still nothing in Shaker Heights.

What do we pay our taxes for????

:-)

All I know is they passed some levy and my property taxes are going up a thousand bucks a year.:mad: Don't get me started.

jtscherne, are you in the Cleveland Suburbs area for Adelphia. Looking at the map your closer to Cleveland then I am but you may be in the same group.

I'm officially in Shaker Heights near the Cleveland border; I'm definitely in a suburban area because I don't get the Cleveland access channels, but I don't know which "area" I actually belong to.

I'm still apparently one of two people with WOIO-HD on Adelphia. OK, three, if you count the guy getting it on the QAM tuner. ;)

And the first few minutes of "19 Action News", someone forgot to flip the switch BACK from the CBS NYC HD feed! ;) So we saw the first couple of minutes of the show that just ended ("Without a Trace"), followed by color bars with the legend "CBS NEW YORK HD" and a loud BEEEEEEEP.

Someone just figured it out, and switched to the news.

Normally, it's switching INTO HD that throws stations!

From the FCC website applications page, it appears that WKYC has decided to enter the second round of channel elections, thus giving up both channels 3 and 2. Presumably they would later get a UHF or high-VHF.

WEWS has selected Ch. 15. Therefore, it appears there will be no low-VHF in Cleveland. Most stations appear to be going with their DTV assignments and not moving back to thier old analog channels.

Other selections:
WOIO: Ch 10
WUAB: Ch 28
WBNX: Ch 30
WVIZ: Ch 26
WEAO: Ch 50

No application yet for WJW. I assume they would stick with Ch 8.

Originally posted by Inundated
I'm still apparently one of two people with WOIO-HD on Adelphia. OK, three, if you count the guy getting it on the QAM tuner. ;)

And the first few minutes of "19 Action News", someone forgot to flip the switch BACK from the CBS NYC HD feed! ;) So we saw the first couple of minutes of the show that just ended ("Without a Trace"), followed by color bars with the legend "CBS NEW YORK HD" and a loud BEEEEEEEP.

Someone just figured it out, and switched to the news.

Normally, it's switching INTO HD that throws stations!

Talked to a drone at Adelphia Customer Service asked him when the rest of us would be getting the feed. He was clueless (why did I bother?). Said he was in Cleveland didn't have it at his house, blah blah, check channel 1, blah blah, did I try rebooting blah blah, He didn't know that channel was even coming, blah blah. It didn't occur to him to try asking someone who might know anything and I didn't want the poor sob to have to get out of his chair or anything so I just gave up.

6:15 am this morning. No sign of WOIO.

Originally posted by hookbill
Talked to a drone at Adelphia Customer Service..... blah blah, did I try rebooting blah blah.....
It's coming in fine now in Chagrin Falls.

Amazing how sometimes those "dumb" CSRs just stumble on the right answer.

I checked this morning (8AM) for channel 704, and it wasn't there. So I unplugged my SA8000HD, waited a few seconds and plugged it back in. After it rebooted, there was channel 704 right along with all the rest.

Give it a try!

Same thing here! Who'd of thunk it, huh?

I think Inundated left that little piece of info off his post so he would be the only one to get WOIO in HD. Inundated, I missed CSI in HD due to your selfishness. I hope you feel real guilty!!!!! May your first HD set be so complicated that you have to hire a professional to install it for you!!!!






























JUST KIDDING!!!!!:D :D :D
unless it's true......

OK, I'm receiving WOIO but now my machine won't record ANYTHING!!!!

What happened?

Originally posted by Inundated
I'm still trying to figure out why the digital sides of Channels 5, 8 and 19 are not sending programming information via the PSIP data. I thought that was mandatory now? If Channel 17 got its act together and did it...and 19's sister 43 has done it...why not WEWS, WJW and WOIO?

I get programming information from 5, 8, and 19 via OTA with my Dish Network receiver. I wonder if Dish Network is doing that & not the stations? They even have the local programs listed too.

-Todd

Had to reboot, but getting WOIO-HD in Twinsburg now. Hookbill, didn't know I lived so close to you!

Is anybody else having recording issues? I deleted all my WOIO programs to record on WOIO HD. Now I can't record anything?

I just tested & recording is working just fine. Try unplugging & reboot. If that doesn't work...call Adelphia (yuck).

-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I just tested & recording is working just fine. Try unplugging & reboot. If that doesn't work...call Adelphia (yuck).

-Todd

Thanks.....I did call Adelphia and they resent the signal and for the first time in any of the years I have had cable, it actually worked!

Yep, we're just down the road from each other, but I think your on a different head end then me. Your channel line up is a little different. Don't you get WOIO analog on 10?

Yep the analog is on 10. (or digital non-HD as it is now...ha!)

Originally posted by flatiron
From the FCC website applications page, it appears that WKYC has decided to enter the second round of channel elections, thus giving up both channels 3 and 2.

Flatiron - could you please translate this for us? Or is there a page that explains what the second round of channel elections is all about? What's the time table for this transition?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Yep the analog is on 10. (or digital non-HD as it is now...ha!)

I thought so. I get analog WOIO on 4. Weird how they have the system divided up. I'll bet if one of us would have rebooted yesterday we could have gotten WOIO. I still think Inundated is holding out on us.:)

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Flatiron - could you please translate this for us? Or is there a page that explains what the second round of channel elections is all about? What's the time table for this transition?

Thanks!

Each station is currently assigned two channels - an analog (NTSC) channel and a DTV channel (e.g. WEWS, whose analog is 5 and DTV is 15).

The Channel Election process concerns which of the 2 channels a given station will use when analog NTSC broadcasting is shut down in a few years.

In the first round, which ended this week, each station filed a form with the FCC indicating which channel they will use when analog broadcasting ends.

However, there are additional options for stations which are assigned one or more "out-of-core" channels (channels above 51, which will be used for other services), and stations assigned two "low-VHF" channels (2-6). The latter condition applies to WKYC (assigned Ch 3 and Ch 2[DTV] - see all the posts in the thread concerning receptions problems with low VHF). The idea is that in the second and third rounds, these stations will be able to pick available high-VHF(7-13) and in-core UHF (14-51, excluding 37) channels.

You can search for the applications from the FCC's Media Bureau web site (fcc.gov/mb). Then go to "Video Division", then "TV Query", enter the appropriate search terms. Click on the station call letters, then "Application List". Look near the top of the resulting list for an application with a code like "BFRECT" and a date in Jan/Feb 2005 (e.g. 20050210...). Click on "Application" under "Details" column to see Channel Election form for that station.

None of this will probably happen for several years, when analog is shut down.

So, it all boils down to this:

WKYC-DT NBC 3.1 (DTV 2 ) moves to unknown channel
WEWS-DT ABC 5.1 (DTV 15) stays on 15
WJW-DT Fox 8.1 (DTV 31) DTV moves back to 8
WOIO-DT CBS 19.1 (DTV 10) stays on 10
WVPX-DT PAX (Akron) 23.1 (DTV 59 - not on air) selects 23
WVIZ-DT PBS 25.1 (DTV 26) stays on 26
WDLI-DT (Canton) 17.1 (DTV 39) stays on 39
WUAB-DT UPN 43.1 (DTV 28) stays on 28
WEAO-DT PBS (Akron) 50.1 (DTV 50) stays on 50
WBNX-DT WB 55.1 (DTV 30 - not on air) selects 30
WQHS-DT UNI 61.1 (DTV 34) stays on 34
WOAC-DT (Canton) 67.1 (DTV 47) stays on 47

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by hookbill
I thought so. I get analog WOIO on 4. Weird how they have the system divided up. I'll bet if one of us would have rebooted yesterday we could have gotten WOIO. I still think Inundated is holding out on us.:)

Hey, knock it off, man! ;)

Seriously...WOIO-HD came in for me WITHOUT rebooting. At all. The channel just showed up! I was watching WJW's DT feed (708) when the screen flashed a little bit (and I mean a LITTLE bit). A small glitch.

Something in me saw that and said "hmm, I wonder if that happened because they threw in WOIO?"...and sure enough, tuned to 704 and there it was.

Oddly enough, this afternoon, I'm getting locking up on WOIO and some of the other HD channels, including right now, in the middle of typing this post. There, it just came back after a minute or so. I just now rebooted the box because it lost sound on the HD channels ONLY.

But honest, I didn't reboot when WOIO first showed up... :D

Originally posted by flatiron
None of this will probably happen for several years, when analog is shut down.

Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.

I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.

Originally posted by Inundated
Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.

I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.

I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.

-T

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.

Or for that matter, why don't they hang onto 19 after the switchover? :D

It doesn't bother me that much. With my infamous indoor antenna, 19 is the hardest station to get aside from WKYC, but not THAT difficult. I can usually move the aerials to get them OTA with few dropout problems. I hope WJW will be the same when it moves to DT 8.

Originally posted by Inundated
Hey, knock it off, man! ;)

Seriously...WOIO-HD came in for me WITHOUT rebooting. At all. The channel just showed up! I was watching WJW's DT feed (708) when the screen flashed a little bit (and I mean a LITTLE bit). A small glitch.

Something in me saw that and said "hmm, I wonder if that happened because they threw in WOIO?"...and sure enough, tuned to 704 and there it was.

Oddly enough, this afternoon, I'm getting locking up on WOIO and some of the other HD channels, including right now, in the middle of typing this post. There, it just came back after a minute or so. I just now rebooted the box because it lost sound on the HD channels ONLY.

But honest, I didn't reboot when WOIO first showed up... :D

OK, dude.....I'll believe you. But you gotta wonder why YOU always seem to get this "preferential" treatment.:)

Originally posted by Inundated
Or for that matter, why don't they hang onto 19 after the switchover? :D

It doesn't bother me that much. With my infamous indoor antenna, 19 is the hardest station to get aside from WKYC, but not THAT difficult. I can usually move the aerials to get them OTA with few dropout problems. I hope WJW will be the same when it moves to DT 8.

Well, since you have WOIO on Adelphia now what difference does it make? You won't have to move you antenna....unless your talking about a different set.

You are right, it won't matter now for me at least! After the All-Star game, it's time to sell the Dish Box (gotta keep it for TNT-HD for the game!) and cancel the $15 per month for their HD package. I don't really need the OTA for anything since I don't ever what WUAB.

-T

Originally posted by hookbill
Well, since you have WOIO on Adelphia now what difference does it make? You won't have to move you antenna....unless your talking about a different set.

In case I decide to dump Adelphia for a dish...until D* gets the Cleveland market locals in HD.

I'm actually fairly satisfied with Adelphia right now, though their cost is through the roof...

And you're right, I do get preferential treatment...my guide data has never had a problem! ;) Heh.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I wonder why WOIO wouldn't try to get a different channel? From what I've read in the past, they have to run at lower power because they could interfer with a detroit station that has 10 up there. That accounts for the dropouts & generally weaker signal than the rest of the local nets. If that's true, it makes little sense for them to keep 10.

-T

Not to mention WBNS Ch 10 in Columbus (DTV 21), which has also selected 10 for DTV operation. It's hard to believe that you can have co-channel DTV stations in Cleveland and Columbus w/o the two signals overlapping, say around Mansfield or Ashland. Unless WOIO continues to run 3.5kW or a very directional pattern away from Columbus.

Ditto for WUAB and WTTE (Fox 28 Columbus) both selecting Ch 28.

I guess WOIO wants the VHF because of the lower TX power requirement.

Add me to the list of Adelphia people who now get WOIO after I rebooted the box. (Shaker Heights) I was able to record without any problems.

You have to wonder about the people out there who don't know about this (and don't know they're now supposed to be getting Channel 19!)

Originally posted by Inundated
Thank you for the *excellent* summary. It's good to hear that even the FCC is apparently aware of the low-VHF issues.

I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.

The biggest problem with WOIO is the low power (3.5kW I believe). They also run a directional pattern with a null to the north (maybe to protect a Canadian station?). Could explain why so many people near the Lake report having trouble receivng them.

WOIO is my third most difficult station (possible to get w/ an indoor antenna, but alignment is very tricky) after WKYC and WEAO (where I have terrain issues with).

WKYC I can't get at all w/o an outdoor antenna. A StealthAntenna mounted about 10ft high works fine in my case. The station is unwatchable, though, on many summer nights due to thunderstorm activity and tropo/skip.

If WJW-DT is running 50kW or so on Ch 8 (which they probably will be able to when all the analogs are gone) you should have NO TROUBLE receiving them.

Also, I understand that most UHF antennas work fine on high-VHF stations, at least strong local ones.

Originally posted by jtscherne
Add me to the list of Adelphia people who now get WOIO after I rebooted the box. (Shaker Heights) I was able to record without any problems.

You have to wonder about the people out there who don't know about this (and don't know they're now supposed to be getting Channel 19!)

Yeah, I'll bet. I wouldn't be surprised however within the next day or two they might become aware of it and just reboot all the units.

I did tell my source at Adelphia about the reboot by I have no idea if she took it beyond what I told her.

Originally posted by flatiron
WKYC I can't get at all w/o an outdoor antenna. A StealthAntenna mounted about 10ft high works fine in my case. The station is unwatchable, though, on many summer nights due to thunderstorm activity and tropo/skip.

Interesting. I thought the Stealth was UHF only? As you noted, UHF antennas could still do OK with high-VHF'ers, but WKYC obviously is not... am I wrong?

I can get WKYC with my Stealthtenna which is mounted to a 8 foot pole as well. I usually don't have problems, although it takes a few seconds for it to lock on.

-Todd

Originally posted by Inundated
Interesting. I thought the Stealth was UHF only? As you noted, UHF antennas could still do OK with high-VHF'ers, but WKYC obviously is not... am I wrong?

No, the Stealth is VHF/UHF.

Looks like Adelphia rebooted the boxes as we guessed they might. I had to go through the setup wizard again this morning as my screen was all funky. Anyone else notice this today?

-Todd

That's unusual. Usually when I can tell that my box has been rebooted (box comes up on channel 1 when I turn it on), I never have to go through setup.

Originally posted by flatiron
No, the Stealth is VHF/UHF.

Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.

I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.

Originally posted by Inundated
Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.

I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.

You're in Cuyahoga Falls, right? I would think you would be able to get WFMJ-DT for sure - they're 460kW at 295m and their pattern favors the west. You may have a shot at WYTV (ABC) too, although I think they are low power. How do the Youngstown analogs come in where you are?

I can get a very snowy picture on WFMJ's analog here, about 8 miles west of Medina, even with an indoor antenna. Have had no luck with their DT though.

EDIT

whoops, I was looking at WFMJ's construction permit, not their actual licensed parameters. They are 200kW at 235m HAAT. However, eastern Akron/Cuyahoga Falls is shown as barely inside their DT service contour.

Here's some insight into the reasons WVPX/23 and WBNX/55 are not on the air yet.

In their channel elections...stations have to explain Canadian coordination issues. It turns out that even by "electing" to go to 23 for DT operation, since 59 is "out of core", WVPX has more Canadian issues!

TELEVISION STATION WVPX, AKRON, OHIO, OPERATES ON CHANNEL 23 ANALOG AND WAS ALLOCATED CHANNEL 59 AS ITS PAIRED DIGITAL CHANNEL. SINCE DIGITAL CHANNEL 59 IS OUTSIDE THE CORE, THE STATION PRESUMABLY WOULD HAVE TO OPERATE IN DIGITAL ON WVPXS ANALOG CHANNEL 23 AFTER THE CLOSE OF THE DTV TRANSITION. TO REPLICATE THE STATIONS EXISTING ANALOG SERVICE AREA ON DIGITAL CHANNEL 23 [ASSUMING SAME ANTENNA AT THE SAME HEIGHT] THE STATION COULD OPERATE WITH A MAXIMUM ERP OF 197 KW WITHOUT EXCEEDING ANY FCC INTERFERENCE STANDARDS TO OTHER US ASSIGNMENTS AND ALLOTMENTS.

HOWEVER, UNDER THE CANADIAN LOU, DIGITAL OPERATION OF WVPX ON CHANNEL 23 FROM THE CURRENT SITE WOULD CREATE A SHORT-SPACING TO CBLN, LONDON, ONTARIO. THE LOU REQUIRES A MINIMUM SEPARATION BETWEEN CBLN AND WVPX-DT OF 340 KM BUT THE ACTUAL SEPARATION IS 210.9 KM. ACCORDINGLY, DIGITAL OPERATION ON THE ANALOG ALLOTMENT IS INADEQUATE FOR PURPOSES OF PRESERVING RELIED-UPON SERVICE AND ENSURING THAT EXISTING VIEWERS MAY CONTINUE TO RECEIVE WVPXS PROGRAMMING. THEREFORE, INTERNATIONAL COORDINATION WITH CANADA IS REQUESTED. THIS CHANNEL ELECTION SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A REQUEST FOR FLASH CUT AUTHORITY.

So, basically, they're begging for more help coordinating with Canada. :D

WBNX's situation is explained in this PDF file attached to its channel selection of 30. Like WVPX, its other channel (now analog 55) is "out of core" and can't be selected:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=281153

The guts of THIS one...WBNX is trying to inform the FCC that they're using FCC guidelines to minimize interference to the Canadian station on DT 30, using a special directional antenna with "beam tilt". The station believes that since no objections have been filed to their latest application, filed about a year ago, the application should be granted.

Odd.

Originally posted by jtscherne
That's unusual. Usually when I can tell that my box has been rebooted (box comes up on channel 1 when I turn it on), I never have to go through setup.

Yeah I think it is a bit strange, but since I got this 8300HD, each time it's rebooted (when I first got it, yesterday when I unplugged to get CBS & then today), my screen comes up all red looking. I thought the box was bad the 1st time, but when I ran through the wizard it was fine. When I 1st run the wizard, it'll sit on the SD screen for about 15 seconds or so, then when it goes to the HD input screen, the colors are normalized.

Not a clue why this happens, but my box definately rebooted at some point last night.

-Todd

Originally posted by Inundated
Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.

I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.

Here' WFMJ-DT's service contour (from FCC TV Query) with their current parameters (200kW).

Originally posted by Inundated
Oh, I think I'm confusing it with antennas like the Channel Master 4228 and similar, which are UHF only.

I'm still moderately interested in getting an antenna, if only because I still wonder if I have a shot at the Youngstown stations at all. That might not happen until they go full power...which may not happen until 2006.

And here's WYTV-DT.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Looks like Adelphia rebooted the boxes as we guessed they might. I had to go through the setup wizard again this morning as my screen was all funky. Anyone else notice this today?

-Todd

When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.

Now some more good news :D

ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.

Originally posted by Inundated
Here's some insight into the reasons WVPX/23 and WBNX/55 are not on the air yet.

...



Very interesting. Unbelievable that the FCC apparently didn't coordinate with Canada when assigning all these DTV channels to US stations close to the border.

Originally posted by handsworth
When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.

Now some more good news :D

ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.

The only problem with that is that I've had it for 3 weeks. Any time I reboot, the screen is red & out of wack looking. Need to do the wizard to fix it. This is the only time it's ever rebooted on it's own in 3 weeks, so I'm assuming it was done by Adelphia. That is good news about ESPN2-HD. I wish they would add TNT-HD as well.

-Todd

Dweezilz, if the 8300HD component outs are the same as the 8000HD, SA chose to save 5 cents on the design and make one of the component jacks do double duty as a composite video out. I assume your box is resetting to a default composite video out configuration, thus losing your "blue" or "green" component signal.

FWIW, my SA8000HD always remembers it's output configuration if I reboot or unplug.

Originally posted by handsworth
When you first get the 8300HD it will be funky for about 48hrs. it needs to get a second download from SA. After that, it will be fine.

Now some more good news :D

ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.

Ya know, everytime I get an email saying this dude has posted it's always good news!

How well we know about the first 48 hours, huh handsworth?

Originally posted by flatiron
Here' WFMJ-DT's service contour (from FCC TV Query) with their current parameters (200kW).

Yeah, I know, I post those maps on AVSForum all the time. :D

I'm right on the edge of the WFMJ service contour. The blue line goes right through here. I've had varying success with an indoor antenna getting a very faint and not really watchable analog signal out of them, and haven't gotten a peep of digital signal out of them, even with an amplified antenna.

I'm just wondering if putting a StealthTenna out there will change anything. I sense there are terrain issues between me and the Youngstown sticks. (Remember, they're down south of downtown, and they're "in the Valley" over there.)

Originally posted by handsworth
ESPN2HD will be launched in the Cleveland system on March 1. It just keeps on coming.

Hip hip, hooray!

As far as I know, the ONLY people getting ESPN2HD anywhere in the nation right now are some Adelphia customers up in Connecticut or something. Maybe Adelphia's getting a fiber-optic feed from Bristol there. ;)

Originally posted by Inundated
Hip hip, hooray!

As far as I know, the ONLY people getting ESPN2HD anywhere in the nation right now are some Adelphia customers up in Connecticut or something. Maybe Adelphia's getting a fiber-optic feed from Bristol there. ;)
ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.

Which channel in Cleveland is HD FOX

Originally posted by jamawass
ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.

As far as I know everybody now has CBS in Cleveland in HD. If your an Adelphia customer and you don't see it on your list, try rebooting.

Originally posted by jamawass
ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.

Cavs games aren't on in HD on WUAB or FOXSOH. They are on ESPN-HD or TNT-HD. There is no FOXSOH HD as far as I know. So as I said in my earlier post for the very reason stated here (to watch the Cavs in HD), I wish they'd get TNT-HD. It's the only reason I'm hanging on to Dish Network HD for an extra $15 per month on top of Adelphia.

Originally posted by denverb2b
Which channel in Cleveland is HD FOX

If you are talking Fox sports...none.

I haven't heard even any rumblings that FSN Ohio is going to do anything in HD. Nothing. Zip. And I'd pretty much bet the farm that WUAB won't be doing any Cavs games in HD. WUAB, of course, does do HD itself, but only for passing through UPN network shows.

The situation may change next year or the year after, but for this year...you're only going to see the Cavs or Indians in HD on existing national networks like TNT-HD or ESPN-HD. (If I remember right, there's at least one Cavs game on ESPN-HD this coming month...after the one that aired this past week. Having LeBron on your team tends to get you more ESPN love. ;) )

With the addition of Adelphia, I believe every major cable MSO in Northeast Ohio carries WOIO/CBS-HD. Time Warner added them a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure both Cox and Comcast have 'em. So, you'll definitely be set for Browns games this fall.

As already mentioned, CBS is now available on Adelphia. WUAB is not broadcasting any local sports in HD, so the Cavs games wouldn't be in high definition, and Fox Sports Ohio doesn't even have a high definition channel. So don't blame Adelphia for not carrying something that isn't even available.


Originally posted by jamawass
ESPN2HD? What about CBS, WUAB or FOXSOH? I can't watch any AFC Browns Games in HD or the CAVs in HD, espn2 should be low on the HD priority list for Cleveland sports.

With the addition of Adelphia, I believe every major cable MSO in Northeast Ohio carries WOIO/CBS-HD. Time Warner added them a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure both Cox and Comcast have 'em. So, you'll definitely be set for Browns games this fall. [/B][/QUOTE]


Not all ARMSTRONG CABLE doe not have it yet. Still waiting. Come on Armstrong.

Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.

any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum

Originally posted by denverb2b
Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.

any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum

I'd be happy to answer your question, but I do not get OTA I have Adelphia.....However, we get the same picture that OTA gets so I can tell you they fill the screen on local broadcast but when showing network shows if it is not in HD it does not fill the screen.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather they not stretch the picture and leave that option to me.

Originally posted by denverb2b
Why is it WEWS OTA does not fill the screen. I always got the sides missing on my 60 inch widescreen. I have it set to full and its coming in 720p 16:9. I have to use zoom to fill the screen. PBS OTA is not doing this.

any anwsers or does no one feel like anwsersing questions in this forum

Not sure why the need to say what you did in that last line there. Everyone contributes here & is willing to help. Did I miss something where we weren't answering questions in this forum? If you asked the question previously & it went unanswered, a simple <bump> on that topic would suffice instead of sarcasm which usually gets you nowhere.

In this case however, I'll also help answer your question.

I have OTA & Adelphia. For WEWS, hookbill is correct. It is indeed the same situation on both. They don't stretch their SD content like some of the other locals do on national SD feeds. I can't recall what they do with local SD, but I'll go with hookbill that they do stretch that. The national SD feeds are sent with the black sidebars built into the 16:9 picture. WEWS just passes that along without stretching it. The only way to get rid of that is to zoom. Now if you have having problems with HD content on WEWS not filling your screen, then you have a setting problem with your TV or box (which we can't help fix without knowing the TV or box).

I'd say that the issue is just how WEWS sends SD material.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I have OTA & Adelphia. For WEWS, hookbill is correct. It is indeed the same situation on both. They don't stretch their SD content like some of the other locals do on national SD feeds. I can't recall what they do with local SD, but I'll go with hookbill that they do stretch that. The national SD feeds are sent with the black sidebars built into the 16:9 picture. WEWS just passes that along without stretching it.

As I was reading this message the first time, I was wondering what you were talking about...as I was watching WEWS-DT, and they were running ABC's "World News Tonight'" in lovely stretch-o-vision.

And earlier today, they were running NBA basketball (Cavs vs. Lakers, go Cavs!) in stretch mode.

But since then, I think I have figured it out.

They just went into primetime with the SD-only "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition". It appears they do stretching outside of prime-time...and none in prime-time, as this show is not stretched.

Inundated, you aren't supposed to tell everyone you watch Extreme Makeover : Home Edition! The secrete is out! HA! ;)

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Inundated, you aren't supposed to tell everyone you watch Extreme Makeover : Home Edition! The secrete is out! HA! ;)

Honest, it was just a tune-by! :D

Actually, as I'm not terribly aware of what show is on what night, I usually run by all the OTA HD stations at 8 PM (7 PM Sundays) to see who's running HD shows...

Tonight I was checking OTA vs. cable, and the Grammys were coming in Dolby ProLogic II via the SA8000HD cable box (Wide Open West), but on my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA, I was getting simple "stereo". Weird???

As a side note, this is the first broadcast I have heard truly good surround with Dolby PLII, all others have been very lame compared to Fox's DD5.1....

How was your picture for the Grammies OTA and with WOW? I was very unimpressed with my Adelphia picture. Lots of pixelation and I often felt that that the picture was not particularly sharp.

Originally posted by paule123
Tonight I was checking OTA vs. cable, and the Grammys were coming in Dolby ProLogic II via the SA8000HD cable box (Wide Open West), but on my Samsung SIR-T165 OTA, I was getting simple "stereo". Weird???

As a side note, this is the first broadcast I have heard truly good surround with Dolby PLII, all others have been very lame compared to Fox's DD5.1....
Dolby ProLogic is just a stereo signal. ProLogic just uses ambience information in the regular two-channel feed to decode the surround information. And, yes, because it uses this technique, it rarely sounds anywhere near as good as full Dolby Digital. For that matter, ProLogic will extract some surround information from any stereo feed - even one that has no DPL encoding at all.

I'm not aware of any way for a receiver to "detect" ProLogic - generally, it is used only when the user turns it on. So my guess is that you have it turned on for the input that accepts your cable box, but not on the input that accepts your OTA receiver.

As for the Grammy video, I was disappointed, too. Some of the problems in the video may be Adelphia's and/or CBS's, but some seem to be inherent in digital video broadcast. For example, some of those strobing effects - you can't change that much of the screen with that rapidity without triggering pixelization. Even at the highest bandwidths allowable on the air, you're going to see pixelization. So television producers are going to have to learn how to work in the digital broadcast world. On an event that is produced specifically for television, they should be able to avoid effects that trigger broadcast problems like these.

Grammys? You mean somebody actually watches that stuff?

Well, my first recordings off of Adlephia/WOIO HD were JAG and Numb3rs. I fell asleep during the latter, but JAG looked good.

One question for you OTA folks. It was my understanding that CBS had Dolby 5.1. I thought maybe they didn't happen to use it on the two shows I recorded but now your saying it wasn't on the Grammys either. Do they not have Dolby?

CBS offers DD 5.1, but Fox and NBC are the only local stations with DD 5.1

CBS does a good job with the 5.1. I usually watch shows on DirecTv's CBS E/W feed because of the 5.1 vs. WOIO who refuses to upgrade.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Still I have to admit my Dolby Pro Logic II does a great job with the sound. Even football games on 804 (Adelphia's "digital") was noticeably better then on their analog station.

Originally posted by hookbill
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. Still I have to admit my Dolby Pro Logic II does a great job with the sound. Even football games on 804 (Adelphia's "digital") was noticeably better then on their analog station.

I thought that Adelphia's digital locals were on 3, 5, 8, 10 and the 800's were the analog versions (which use to be on 3,5, 8, & 10). I'm pretty sure that's what they said. The 800 version look terrible to me while 3, 5, 8, & 10 look much better than they did previously.

Originally posted by jtscherne
How was your picture for the Grammies OTA and with WOW? I was very unimpressed with my Adelphia picture. Lots of pixelation and I often felt that that the picture was not particularly sharp.

The PQ was excellent other than when the strobe lights came into play. There was one band where the strobes were constantly flashing through the whole performance with the camera gyrating quite a bit and the picture pretty much fell apart. Other than the strobe thing it was excellent PQ.

I thought the picture wasn't that great at first until I realized I had my SA8000HD set for 720p from last week's Super Bowl. Once I switched it to 1080i all was well. Just proof once again the internal scaler in that box isn't all that great.

BTW, I'm not a big awards show fan either, it was one of those things (like the Academy Awards) that I will take a look at just because it's in HD.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I thought that Adelphia's digital locals were on 3, 5, 8, 10 and the 800's were the analog versions (which use to be on 3,5, 8, & 10). I'm pretty sure that's what they said. The 800 version look terrible to me while 3, 5, 8, & 10 look much better than they did previously.

Nope, it's the other way around. Think about it. You need a digital box to receive the digital signals. 3, 5, 8, 10 (channel 4 in my area) you can get with just the cable hooked up to the tv. That's the way I have my bedroom tv set up (I only watch local news there).

Yeah, I must have had a momentary brain cramp. I was so tuned into the fact that the analog version actually look much better on my HDTV than do the 800 tier versions that I forgot which was which. Thought they were doing something where the lower ones were digital if you had a digital box & analog if you used basic cable. I'm assuming that the box itself is capable of delivering digital channels below 100 no?

At any rate, I just read a few old posts & saw Inundated also found the same with the lower tier locals (analog?) looking better than the 800 tier. Are we 100% sure what we are seeing is correct? I have no clue why analog channels would look better.

I have a buddy who just got CBS for the 1st time in HD. He has only watched the Grammy's so far, which looked horrible (as we discussed today). He also said they are the only ones that don't do their local news in HD so basically, CBS stinks for HD.

I told him that FOX is the only channel that does local news in HD & that in general, FOX's HD isn't considered very good at this point while CBS is the leader in HD. They've been doing it the longest & still today have the best looking HD shows. For some reason he doesn't believe me. ABC has come a long way with their sport presentations, but still can't match up to CBS. I don't think there is another show on TV that looks as good as CSI-Miami still today.

Anyway, I even called WKYC & WEWS to make sure I wasn't going crazy & they also said they don't broadcast news in HD (which I already knew).

Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.

None of the local affiliates do HD local news aside from FOX 8.

WKYC, for example, debuted their "digital broadcast center" in 1999 (no HD in the actual studio). The equipment may be newer and the digital quality may make their SD cast look better, but it's still not HD. And for that matter. FOX 8 itself has been using those HD cameras - downconverted to SD - for 2 years. Same principle.

WOIO's SD/local PQ is horrible. I'm not sure how old their equipment is, or if it dates back to 1986 or so (when independent-then-FOX affiliate "WOIO nineteen" went on the air). But it's noticably worse than WKYC and WEWS, comparing SD to SD.

The CBS *network* stuff looks better to me even via WOIO, since it's not using any of their crappy SD equipment...and it looks slightly better to me than FOX or even ABC's 720p. And I'm watching a downconverted-to-480i signal on my SD analog set (via component video). I can ALWAYS tell the difference. The best looking HD feeds are always the 1080i feeds, and I can clearly tell which is sharper, even on my setup. Channels like HDNet/HDMovies/INHD1/2/Discovery HD are always more breathtaking to me than even ESPN's 720p. Again, this is watching on an analog set with the signal downconverted to 480i by the box!

Oh, yes, I did say that the analog PQ on, for example, WOIO (Ch. 4) is noticably better than the PQ on the digital SD version on 804. And this is a fairly recent occurence...the PQ used to really stink. My running theory is that the encoding they are using on the digital/804 version is encoding what remaining light "snow" there is on the analog feed.

One thing I've also noticed...the 8xx channels do not take any time to reencode vs. the other digital (SD) channels, i.e. the 100 series. I'm not sure what that means. But when you tune in the 100 series, it takes a second or two for the channel to pop up, and the 800 series channels pop up almost instantly.

Yes, Fox is the only local news broadcast in HD. WKYC (NBC) "looks" HD but in fact is a very good 480p. ABC and CBS local news are not HD.

I would agree CBS is the best, all around, of the major networks in HD. But DiscoveryHD and HDNet look even better.

When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!

One other thought about your friend's CBS station - do they multicast at all? Multicasting can definitely affect PQ, especially if the original source is having any problems.

The Grammies looked fine to me last night, but the strobing was definitely bad. When it wasn't strobing, it was good. WOIO, of course, doesn't multicast, but the other affiliate in the other city might.

Originally posted by paule123
When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!

Even on my 480i/analog set/downconverted setup, I did notice that Adelphia's WOIO-HD feed looked a little softer than WOIO looked on my OTA box. For now, I have the OTA box feeding S-video to the set, and even with that difference, it looked sharper than the component video feeding out of the 8000HD.

Local news in order of PQ:

1) WJW FOX 8. By default, since they're the only HD local newscast. But they looked better even when using those HD studio cameras in SD, before they switched to HD on the show. I'm still not sure if they have any HD field cameras, as the live shots look (in my opinion) a LITTLE softer than HD should look... but they always do the live shots in 16:9, even in SD.

2) WKYC/3. They must have gotten the last generation of SD-only digital equipment. (Does anyone know if they did that one HD promo for their news a ways back in-house?)

3) WEWS NewsChannel 5. A notch below WKYC in my eyes, PQ wise, but not THAT far behind.

4) WOIO 19 Action News. Someone here described it best - "they have the contrast set up to 11". Washed out and pretty bad...though on my 4:3 set, not zooming it out of pillarbox mode helps a LITTLE.

I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.:)

WEWS news looks better to me.

WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.

Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.

OK, now as far as pq. I like what I see on CBS so far, I've only looked at two shows. IMHO, and please remember I'm always right NBC gets the booby prize, specially after last week. Inundated, your probably not aware of how they were missing the middle speaker through a quarter of The West Wing and then they went to SD after 15 minutes. I had to figure out what was going on without seeing the first part of the show. Then they tried to go back to HD in the last 15 minutes and after 5 minutes of no sound in the center speaker, they gave up and went back to SD.

They didn't even try to show Law & Order in HD.

For those that don't know, center speaker is where the dialog comes from.

Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.

Having said that, I'll still say it is better then thei "digital" picture (adelphia).

ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week.

Originally posted by hookbill
I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.:)

Hah. :D

Well, having a 4:3 set, I use the 8000HD's "Stretch" to squeeze the stretch-o-vision back to 4:3. And it looks good when I do that. If you kicked it back into 4:3, you'd probably think it's a little better than WEWS...but it might be just me :)

As far as NBC, it's apparently been having some issues with HD nationally (see the Programming boards for more). I don't notice the 5.1 stuff because I'm still pumping just ordinary stereo out of my TV. But I know that at the network level (I think), they had to dump some shows in the past 2-3 weeks into SD because of the 5.1 sound issues. There've been other network HD problems with NBC, too.

And unlike CBS/WOIO locally, WKYC does multicast, with the SD feed on 3-2 and the weather radar (soon to be "NBC Weather Plus") on 3-3. Some of the HD problems you've noted could be due to WKYC's reduced bandwidth. 1080i - multicasting can impact the HD feed. 720p (ABC/FOX), you can usually fit in one SD channel without doing harm to the HD feed.

WOIO's HD with CBS looks pretty good. It's just their crummy SD that looks awful. The night they went live on Adelphia, since I was apparently the only person who didn't have to reboot ( :) ), they were running the syndicated "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire". The PQ was AWFUL even on the HD (SD upconvert) feed. There were actually lines of interference rolling through the picture, lines I also saw on the digital SD and analog feeds of WOIO on Adelphia, and also saw on the HD feed (upconverted SD) OTA. And the dark "Millionaire" set, almost fully black, didn't help.

When WOIO went to a commercial, the lines went away. I can only assume that the lines came from a fading videotape that they used to record the show.

ABC/FOX HD look good to me, but I can always see that 1080i (non-multicast) looks a LITTLE better.

Originally posted by Inundated
One other thought about your friend's CBS station - do they multicast at all? Multicasting can definitely affect PQ, especially if the original source is having any problems.

The Grammies looked fine to me last night, but the strobing was definitely bad. When it wasn't strobing, it was good. WOIO, of course, doesn't multicast, but the other affiliate in the other city might.

He has Adelphia in Cleveland. I didn't watch last night so it's hard to comment, but last year didn't look all that hot from what I can recall.

Originally posted by paule123
Yes, Fox is the only local news broadcast in HD. WKYC (NBC) "looks" HD but in fact is a very good 480p. ABC and CBS local news are not HD.

I would agree CBS is the best, all around, of the major networks in HD. But DiscoveryHD and HDNet look even better.

When you say the Grammys looked that bad, I wonder if Adelphia is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new CBS HD channel? I had that problem with HDNet and Discovery when WOW first launched HD service. I had a conversation with engineering there and sure enough they didn't have enough bandwidth allocated. They had been running HD for a few days and nobody noticed the PQ problem until I called in!

I wish I would have watched last night to compare since I have OTA & Adelphia, but I was busy. As for CBS being the leader in HD, I was only refering to local networks, not the HD only channels such as DiscoveryHD & HDnet etc... When those channels show regular HD (not transfers), they look amazing. The only network show I've seen that can stand up to some of the best shows on DiscoveryHD would be CSI-Miami which looks killer.

Originally posted by hookbill
I feel that WKYC news is the worst, their stretch o vision makes everybody look fat. Hey, I want to see some nice looking girls on the newscast. If I want fat, I look in the mirror.:)

WEWS news looks better to me.

WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.

Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.

OK, now as far as pq. I like what I see on CBS so far, I've only looked at two shows. IMHO, and please remember I'm always right NBC gets the booby prize, specially after last week. Inundated, your probably not aware of how they were missing the middle speaker through a quarter of The West Wing and then they went to SD after 15 minutes. I had to figure out what was going on without seeing the first part of the show. Then they tried to go back to HD in the last 15 minutes and after 5 minutes of no sound in the center speaker, they gave up and went back to SD.

They didn't even try to show Law & Order in HD.

For those that don't know, center speaker is where the dialog comes from.

Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.

Having said that, I'll still say it is better then thei "digital" picture (adelphia).

ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week.

I wish NBC was better since I watch the most shows on that network. Their HD PQ on ER, Law & Order, Third Watch, etc... are all pretty bad. The original Law & Order seems to have the best HD PQ, although it's still inferior to CBS & ABC. I think the ABC shows like Alias look good, but nothing on any of the networks can compare to CBS shows as far as PQ goes. Too bad I only watch CSI / Miami & sometimes Without a trace! But they look fabulous!! 24's HD picture on Fox looks barely better than their 480p!

I've compared OTA vs. Adelphia & on the local networks, OTA seems sharper by a slight margin. The other networks like HDnet & ESPN seem about the same. I'd bet that's due to one less generation with OTA locals vs. cable locals. They need to capture the local OTA & pump through the cable while I can get OTA 1st generation. Not sure if that is a correct assumption, but it sounds right to me. Networks like ESPN come via Sat. same generation as cable so that might account for those looking pretty much the same as their Sattelite counterparts.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
He has Adelphia in Cleveland. I didn't watch last night so it's hard to comment, but last year didn't look all that hot from what I can recall.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought he was in another city.

The PQ of last night's Grammies was pretty good for me, if they weren't doing the strobing thing...then it went to hell pretty quickly. Like you, OTA looked a bit sharper. I don't know if they do any compression of the local HD channels on the Adelphia end or not. I do know they've been squeezing a lot of 'em in there, I just don't know how much capacity they have for the existing channels or future ones (ESPN2HD, due in a couple of weeks or so, or UniversalHD, etc.).

Originally posted by hookbill
WJW is the best because it is HD and they do a great job of going from HD to SD. I just hate their newscast.

Despite Inundated opinion, I really like WOIO because of their in your face attitude.

If I want "in your face attitude", I'll watch professional wrestling. ;) (Sorry, I have a beef or two or 10 about "19 Action News"...)

WJW's "A block" is usually very good, actually. That's the first part of the show, from the opening to the top story, to other "real" news. The newscast falls apart dramatically after that. Way too much happy talk and games and chuckles. They still have some of the best reporters in the market, but I can't endure watching after the opening news segment.

I usually end up watching just the A block (first 5-10 minutes) of FOX 8, then going somewhere else...if I'm in a news mood, usually to WKYC...if I'm in a mood for comedy, possibly to WOIO ;) I've seen comedians less animated than Jeff Tanchak, for one, and feature reporter/weather fill-in Charlie Minn does his best to actually ACT like a clown.

Originally posted by hookbill

ABC surprisingly always looks real good to me. I like the look of LOST and Boston Legal. CBS may have the best but I can't really say until I look at their shows later this week. I only watch one show on ABC, but that show looks exceptional in HD. It's Desperate Housewives - it's about the only show on all of television that my wife is willing to watch, so we watch it together. She doesn't like TV much. Interestingly, I saw a mention that Desperate Housewifes had better ratings than the Grammy show last night, so I guess she's in good company with that one.

CBS has some shows that look pretty good - all those cop shows.

I don't think I've watched anything on NBC since the Olympics. They just don't seem to be able to produce anything that has any draw for me whatsoever.

I probably watch more stuff on HDNet than all the other networks put together - The Handler, The Agency, Smallville (my kids really like that one), and all those music shows - Rodney Crowell was just great last night, so was Allison Krauss yesterday at midday.

I'd watch Enterprise in HD if Adelphia would just pick it up.

As for news, I just can't imagine watching any of those pseudo-news shows on television. I get all my news from the various internet feeds (AP, Reuters, etc.) and from NPR. It'll take a lot more than HD to fix the many things that are wrong with TV news.

Originally posted by Inundated
If I want "in your face attitude", I'll watch professional wrestling. ;) (Sorry, I have a beef or two or 10 about "19 Action News"...)

WJW's "A block" is usually very good, actually. That's the first part of the show, from the opening to the top story, to other "real" news. The newscast falls apart dramatically after that. Way too much happy talk and games and chuckles. They still have some of the best reporters in the market, but I can't endure watching after the opening news segment.

I usually end up watching just the A block (first 5-10 minutes) of FOX 8, then going somewhere else...if I'm in a news mood, usually to WKYC...if I'm in a mood for comedy, possibly to WOIO ;) I've seen comedians less animated than Jeff Tanchak, for one, and feature reporter/weather fill-in Charlie Minn does his best to actually ACT like a clown.

Yeah, I agree about Minn and Tanchak. I don't like Tanchak, reminds me of an ex high school jock. Actually he kind of reminds me of that guy in "Back To The Future", you know the bully dude.

But, I like the way WOIO gets into peoples faces. Still I only watch it part of the time, I actually look at all of the stations I, pick one for the day and stay with it.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I'd watch Enterprise in HD if Adelphia would just pick it up.

Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season).

Yes, Enterprise is done in May.

I watched some CBS sitcom tonight (through Adelphia) and was much more satisfied with the picture than the grammies. There was still some pixelation early on, and some freezing here and there, but it was satisfactory.

Just got another lead. I found out that WOIO will be broadcasting 39 of 64 games in HD during March Madness. Not so many during the first round , but I think the regionals and on will all be HD.

Originally posted by Inundated
Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season).

I'm not sure of when the final episode of Enterprise will be but it is this year. That's another show that comes in with great sound despite no Dolby 5.1.

I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....

Originally posted by Inundated
Even if Adelphia does pick up WUAB - and I don't see anything but bandwidth considerations or lack of interest by them in the way, since they've got WOIO now - I believe Enterprise is history, no? I don't know if it's still on the air through May or so (end of season). I hadn't heard that. That's too bad - it was a pretty good show. It's both the only show on UPN in HD, and also the only show on WUAB that I'd actually watch. In that case, I guess I don't care whether or not Adelphia picks it up.

Originally posted by mosborne
I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....

Hmm, you shouldn't have any problems getting them from there. The variable with WOIO is that their digital channel is on 10, a high-VHF channel...though even a UHF antenna should get it for you.

Just for kicks and grins, try attaching a pair of rabbit ears to your Samsung and try hitting up DT 10 (WOIO-DT) all by itself. That'd cost you nothing, and eliminate one possible problem if it works for you. Then again, if you get 3...which is a *low*-VHF channel, I don't see why you're not getting WOIO.

One other guess...check the HDTV Hardware section here for any threads on your box. I know some of the Samsungs, especially earlier models, can be problematic, and this might be a PSIP issue. Check THAT thread (PSIP) at the top of this Local HDTV Reception area for more information on that. It might be a problem with your box interpreting recent changes in the electronic codes digital TV stations send into the signal.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I hadn't heard that. That's too bad - it was a pretty good show. It's both the only show on UPN in HD, and also the only show on WUAB that I'd actually watch. In that case, I guess I don't care whether or not Adelphia picks it up.

As Hookbill mentioned, I believe Enterprise goes away at the end of this season. As far as UPN HD is concerned, they have about a half-dozen HD shows starting this season, though I don't know if any of 'em would be of interest to you.

Originally posted by mosborne
I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....

I have a Samsung 350 and I had a lot of trouble getting 19. I was using a SquareShooter 1000 running through an amplified Terk DirecTV multiswitch. In this setup I was never able to get 19 or 25. I finally took the amplifier out of the run and am able to get 8, 19, 25, 43 and 61. Also, briefly picked up 17 which I don't care about. In this setup, channel 3 barely comes in and 5 doesn't at all. So, basically I lost 3 and 5 to gain 19 and 25.

To resolve my problems, I had to move the HD receiver to the attic and try various positions of the antenna and cabling combinations. I would never have gotten 19 without being able to see a TV and be able to move the antenna at the same time.

I'm now thinking about adding an amplifier near the TV to try to pick 3 and 5.

Kermit
Ohio City

Originally posted by Inundated

I wouldn't mind if all of 'em managed to land on UHF (including WJW-DT, currently at 31), but I can deal with high-VHF stations like WOIO and WJW, moving back to 8, as long as WKYC gets out of low-VHF hell.

There is a very good reason why a station would choose to keep a VHF channel: Cost of operation. I had a phone conversation with one of the engineers at WJW shortly after they began broadcasting on their new channel. His tone of voice reminded me of the expression "squeal like a pig" when he was complaining about how much higher their electric bill was for the new digital channel. As he explained it, as the channel number you transmit on gets higher the amount of power needed to cover the same geographic area also progressively increases. He said their electric bill way more than doubled. He told me back then that they were definitely going back to channel 8 when the analog gets shut off. Also he said that the marketing dept. liked that because they don't lose any "Fox 8" logo recognition. So given that, it must be significant savings if WOIO is choosing to stay with channel 10. Makes you wonder what they will change "19 Action News" to after the change over.
Steve

Originally posted by SteveC
Makes you wonder what they will change "19 Action News" to after the change over.
Steve

10 Action News?:)

Originally posted by Dweezilz


Can you guys please veryify for him again that FOX is the only channel doing their local news in HDTV & that CBS is still arguably the leader in HD.

I think a lot of the personal evaluation of broadcaster picture quality is mostly dependent on the person's display capability. It's tough to compare apples to apples. If someone has a display that can only do 1080i, how can you say that CBS shows(1080i) are better than ABC's(720p) or Fox(720p) when you are not displaying the 720p broadcasts natively. Don't forget that the set top box must "downgrade" the higher scan rate of 720p to something that can be displayed on the lower capability 1080i display unit. Different STBs vary widely in quality in performing this task. Conversely, even if you have one of the new 720p digital projectors that can display every pixel in a 720p broadcast, the set top box will obviously have to "throw away" some of the 1080 lines of resolution on a 1080i broadcast to display it. So unless you have a display unit that can display both formats natively(CRT projector with 9" guns, etc.) I think the best statement anyone can make is that a certain broadcast looks better on THEIR set and then they should list what THEIR equipment(STB, display unit, signal source) is for comparison purposes. From what I have read, the people that do have the high powered display units have said it is a tough call based on many factors and neither format(or broadcaster) is the clear winner in all cases.
Steve

Originally posted by mosborne
I am having the devils own time getting WOIO 19 to come in on my Sammy SIR set top box. I can get every other Cleveland HD siginal.....3,5,6,43...and 45/49...(of-course i can see the PBS tower from my house....) any way..running a radio shak outdoor antenna with a run of RG-59 less than 50 feet.....Still NO 19.....Any one have ideas??? Live in south end of Copley Twp by akron.......Thanks.....

Ok..thanks for the ideas...I will post any follow up info I am able to uncover and Thanks for the Help...........

Originally posted by hookbill

Also NBC had the absolute worst picture I have ever seen on Medical Emergency on last Friday night. I don't know quite how to describe it except it had an orange line through the majority of the show and you could see panels on the screen. Occasionally there were even ghosts which as far as I knew were not suppose to happen in HD.



Glad someone else saw that! I though my STB had gone south and started cursing and rebooting before I thought to myself, "Hey, maybe you should check another program!" LOL :)

It's been bothering me for a while, and I think I figured it out.

Remember when Adelphia put up the digital SD versions of the local network affiliates on the 8xx channels? I'm not alone, from what I remember here, in noticing that the NON-DIGITAL versions of those channels (the original cable channels 3, 4, 5, etc.) look a lot better than those in the 800 series. And I mean a LOT better.

I think I've figured out why.

Cable systems are testing this all over the country. The goal, eventually, is to substitute the digital feeds for all the analog channels, so when you're watching the traditionally analog cable channels (the OTA networks, etc.), it will be fed like the channels on 100-plus are. There's a technical term for it, something like "digital substitution". Doing so not only theoretically improves picture quality, but when cable systems are finally able to dump analog feeds down the road, it gives them that much more (and then some) bandwidth for digital channels.

I think I figured this out when I noticed that tuning the box to 803, etc., you didn't get that digital "pause" while the channel was being decoded. It comes up instantly...which is not usual.

It appears the actual digital feeds (SD) ARE on the lower channels, 3, 4, etc., and 803/805/808 etc. only exist to hold the analog channels in the system for someone with a box. In other words, the box does that substitution. Those tuning in without a box would see the analog channels on 3, 4, etc. (whichever ones are duplicated on 80x).

That HAS to be what they're doing. HAS to be. The PQ is just too much better on the lower 3/4/etc. channels, and the 80x channels look as bad as the analog versions used to look. And eventually, when they do this for all analog channels, they will likely "reseed" the digital feed down into the old analog numbers...i.e. ESPN would continue to be 28, digitally substituted, instead of 828.

This is actually kind of off-topic, since I'm talking the SD digital channels here and not the HD channels, but we've talked about it here before... :)

Originally posted by Inundated
It's been bothering me for a while, and I think I figured it out.

Remember when Adelphia put up the digital SD versions of the local network affiliates on the 8xx channels? I'm not alone, from what I remember here, in noticing that the NON-DIGITAL versions of those channels (the original cable channels 3, 4, 5, etc.) look a lot better than those in the 800 series. And I mean a LOT better.

I think I've figured out why.

Cable systems are testing this all over the country. The goal, eventually, is to substitute the digital feeds for all the analog channels, so when you're watching the traditionally analog cable channels (the OTA networks, etc.), it will be fed like the channels on 100-plus are. There's a technical term for it, something like "digital substitution". Doing so not only theoretically improves picture quality, but when cable systems are finally able to dump analog feeds down the road, it gives them that much more (and then some) bandwidth for digital channels.

I think I figured this out when I noticed that tuning the box to 803, etc., you didn't get that digital "pause" while the channel was being decoded. It comes up instantly...which is not usual.

It appears the actual digital feeds (SD) ARE on the lower channels, 3, 4, etc., and 803/805/808 etc. only exist to hold the analog channels in the system for someone with a box. In other words, the box does that substitution. Those tuning in without a box would see the analog channels on 3, 4, etc. (whichever ones are duplicated on 80x).

That HAS to be what they're doing. HAS to be. The PQ is just too much better on the lower 3/4/etc. channels, and the 80x channels look as bad as the analog versions used to look. And eventually, when they do this for all analog channels, they will likely "reseed" the digital feed down into the old analog numbers...i.e. ESPN would continue to be 28, digitally substituted, instead of 828.

This is actually kind of off-topic, since I'm talking the SD digital channels here and not the HD channels, but we've talked about it here before... :)

Thanks Inundated!! I thought I was going crazy, but I was certain when that message came up on the Adelphia message channel, it said that the ANALOG versions would now appear in the 800's & the digital versions would be 3, 5, 8, & 10. When I mentioned that the other day here, people said it was the reverse, but that made no sense to me since it's obvious that the lower tiered versions looked a considerably better, plus I was so sure the message confirmed what I thought. I had also recalled reading somewhere about a 'switching' type system where the digital box would get the digital channels on the lower tier, yet basic cable people would still get the analog on 3, 5, 8, 10.

Not that it really matters anyway since I watch those mostly in the HD tier anyway, but it certainly clears things up if that is indeed the case.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Thanks Inundated!! I thought I was going crazy, but I was certain when that message came up on the Adelphia message channel, it said that the ANALOG versions would now appear in the 800's & the digital versions would be 3, 5, 8, & 10. When I mentioned that the other day here, people said it was the reverse, but that made no sense to me since it's obvious that the lower tiered versions looked a considerably better, plus I was so sure the message confirmed what I thought. I had also recalled reading somewhere about a 'switching' type system where the digital box would get the digital channels on the lower tier, yet basic cable people would still get the analog on 3, 5, 8, 10.

Not that it really matters anyway since I watch those mostly in the HD tier anyway, but it certainly clears things up if that is indeed the case.

Well, your right and your wrong. I'll explain.

First your right. I will confirm that yes indeed the analog stations are now on the 800's. How do I know? All digital stations we receive when they come through my home theater receiver get a "dolby digital" signal. That was why I had a problem with the 800's becasue I was not getting that signal. When I contacted Adelphia about this they told me that the 800's were digital and if I didn't think so try getting them without the box. Their original message said digital signals would be sent on the 800's. Now if they put another message up since then, I'm not aware of it.

Anyway, on these specified channels (in my area 3,4,5,8, and 7) I now get the "dolby digital" reading on my home theater. So the HAVE to be digital for me to get that.

PQ is clearly better as well. I submit that this change happened after the original message went out, because when I did comparisons there was no way in hell that the picture on the lower channels looked any better (or worst for that matter) then the one in the 800's.

Only Adelphia would have the capability of causing this kind of confusion.

Anyway, the only thing that I record that isn't HD now is on UPN channel 7 Star Trek and I have switched that in my recording list from 807 to channel 7.

OK. Then the message I saw must have been a 2nd message when they made the switch so that the lower tier were the digital versions. This is why I was confused when you replied to my post the other day. I'm still fairly certain that it said analog would be moved to 800's. That's the only time I noticed they even did it & it was clear the lower tier locals looked much better. The rep at Adelphia probably was just saying that it was in their digital tier & to get it, you'd need a box. That part was correct. Now maybe at first, like you said, those channels were the digital versions, but at the time I noticed it, I checked PQ comparisons that day, & the lower tier looked far better & were obviously the digital versions.

That makes me right...and right! ha!! Just kidding, I'm still as confused as ever! :)

I thought the digitals were in the lower numbers too, but for a different reason. If I had my one TV on that didn't go through a box, and tuned one of my digital TVs to the same channel in the lower numbers, there was a definite sync difference, where if I tuned in the 800s, there was no delay.

Originally posted by jtscherne
I thought the digitals were in the lower numbers too, but for a different reason. If I had my one TV on that didn't go through a box, and tuned one of my digital TVs to the same channel in the lower numbers, there was a definite sync difference, where if I tuned in the 800s, there was no delay.

I have the most recent version of the TiVo box software...7.1, the one that enables TiVoToGo. (I still have the 8000HD in the living room, of course.)

There's apparently a bug. When you try changing analog channels on a digital cable box, TiVo has trouble "catching up" with the analog channels and displays them, for the first few seconds after the channel change (spitting out the IR to the box) in pixellated form. It only lasts a couple of seconds or so.

This "pixellation bug", as they call it on TiVo Community Forum, shows up on channels like 9 (WEAO) and 10 (WVPX), which don't have 800-series equivalents and are most assuredly in analog. The bug does NOT show up on WKYC/3, WEWS/5, WJW/8, WOIO/19 or WUAB/43 (the old analog 3/5/8/4/6 Adelphia channels). It DOES show up on 803, 804, 805, 806 and 808. Problem solved. I'm not entirely sure if they're doing this on WBNX/55, as there is no 807. (Hookbill - UPN 43/WUAB is 6/806...) I assume they are doing the digital versions only on channels that feed them direct via fiber optic or whatever, as creating a "digital" version of a channel coming via analog wouldn't make much sense.

Again, it's the fact that when all the digital subbing is done, they'll keep the traditional numbers. The box does all the remapping, and changes the original 803 to 3, etc., leaving the old analog version up at 803. That's what appears to be happening.

(I didn't see the second message about the lower ones being in digital, by the way.)

BTW, WOIO looks 100% better on 4 vs. 804, but they still need to turn the contrast down. ;)

Here's even more proof for your theroy, Inundated. Plain and simple proof. On my 8300 box, as some of you are aware, it shows what type of signal is being received. Now when I go to 704, I get a HD light and 1080i lights up. 804, just 480i lights up. On Channel 4 (this is WOIO in my area) the HD light goes off but 1080i lights up.

I notice a contrast problem on WOIO, by the way on channel 4.

And, because my set recognizes the 1080i signal I cannot change my settings on the set to anything other then "fULL", just like on 704.

I can change the aspect ration on the box of course.

Originally posted by hookbill
I notice a contrast problem on WOIO, by the way on channel 4.

If you look close, you'll notice it on 804, too, just with a bit more analog snow joining it. ;) And heck, I notice it on 704 when watching locally originated SD content (news, mostly).

Basically, their cameras/graphics/etc. stink, no matter what resolution you watch in. ;)

I have to ammend my previous post. Apparently the signal changes from 480i to 1080i AFTER you change the screen ration on the digital stations.

However, there is no disputing that the lower channels are the digital ones, the dolby digital signal does not lie.:)

Originally posted by hookbill
I have to ammend my previous post. Apparently the signal changes from 480i to 1080i AFTER you change the screen ration on the digital stations.

However, there is no disputing that the lower channels are the digital ones, the dolby digital signal does not lie.:)

Explain what you mean? when I'm on the digital locals my box says 480i. The only way it'll say 1080i is if I go into the setup & set the screen to 1080i. Is that what you are talking about? I have mine on passthrough so that when I'm on HD it's 1080i & locals switch to 480i.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Explain what you mean? when I'm on the digital locals my box says 480i. The only way it'll say 1080i is if I go into the setup & set the screen to 1080i. Is that what you are talking about? I have mine on passthrough so that when I'm on HD it's 1080i & locals switch to 480i.

OK. When your on the lower channels and your 8300's aspect ratio is set to normal you will see a 480i. Now change your screen aspect ratio to zoom and notice that the 8300 will change from 480i to either 1080i or 720p. Why this happens, I haven't a clue.

Now when it does that change my HDTV screen automatically goes to full screen mode. I cannot change it tow widescreen or zoom or normal because the set believes it is getting a 1080i or 720p signal. I don't use passthru but I use the equivalent HDMI/DVI. Does the same thing.

Try it for yourself and see what happens. Put your set on channel 3,5,7,8,10 and then change the aspect ratios and whatch how the box reports the signal.
Also notice that the HD light does not light up in any of these cases
Let me know how it works for ya.:)

I know why this happens & it's working perfectly as expected actually. The box is not capable of zooming @ 480i. When it's at 480i, hit the * button & you'll find it won't zoom or format in the 480i mode. The ONLY way it can do so, is by also switching it's output to 1080i or 720p (zoom is only available at 1080i or 720p). Once that happens, your TV locks in at full, thus only the box can format. The reason the HD light doesn't light up, is because it's NOT a 1080i signal. The box is upconverting to 1080i. When you watch the regular HD channels, the box doesn't have to upconvert a non-HD signal to HD, thus the HD light comes on. Keep in mind, the box doesn't care what the station is actually sending within it's 1080i signal. Could be SD or HD but if the box gets 1080i or 720p, that's when the HD light goes on. All this makes sense when you think about it. A non-HD cable box doesn't zoom or stretch it's picture at all. For that you rely on your TV. This box is no different except that it allows you to zoom, but as any other HD-STB, it does so in 1080i mode. (or 720p).

That is way this is happening.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
OK. Then the message I saw must have been a 2nd message when they made the switch so that the lower tier were the digital versions. This is why I was confused when you replied to my post the other day. I'm still fairly certain that it said analog would be moved to 800's. That's the only time I noticed they even did it & it was clear the lower tier locals looked much better. The rep at Adelphia probably was just saying that it was in their digital tier & to get it, you'd need a box. That part was correct. Now maybe at first, like you said, those channels were the digital versions, but at the time I noticed it, I checked PQ comparisons that day, & the lower tier looked far better & were obviously the digital versions.

That makes me right...and right! ha!! Just kidding, I'm still as confused as ever! :)

You guys are absolutely right about the locals now being in analog in the 800-series for those with digital boxes. The regular channels are now digital. I recall seeing the message from Adelphia very clearly, and that is exactly what they said was happenning. (I only say one message, so I can't say if there was another, but I'm sure of what I saw.) My subjective testing backs this up. (In fact, I posted to the group on 1-12-05 confirming this. I didn't get much response at the time, but since people seem to be paying attention to this now, I thought I'd re-confirm this.)

Haven't been around in a long time.
Adelphia SA8000 here in Ashtabula.
I was FLOORED when I did the reboot thing and channel 19 was there.
You guys are amazing!

Anyway, I was at HH Gregg in Mentor the other day. Talked to a salesman there who claims that Adelphia has been bought by Comcast. I think he's full of it but I thought I'd post it here. Is this a scoop or just poop?

Originally posted by RexEctor
Anyway, I was at HH Gregg in Mentor the other day. Talked to a salesman there who claims that Adelphia has been bought by Comcast. I think he's full of it but I thought I'd post it here. Is this a scoop or just poop?

If it has been, he is the only person in America who knows it. ;)

Time Warner and Comcast have entered a joint bid to buy the Adelphia systems. Comcast is reportedly interested in markets like Los Angeles, where it already owns a lot of systems.

Northeast Ohio could very well go to Time Warner, as the Adelphia systems here would give them a huge boost combined with their Akron/Canton/Youngstown/Mansfield systems. I don't think Comcast here would be interested, as they don't a big system in Cleveland.

As of yet, Adelphia or its systems have not been sold.

Originally posted by Inundated
If it has been, he is the only person in America who knows it. ;)
.......
As of yet, Adelphia or its systems have not been sold.

Thanks inundated. That's what I thought.

Here's the latest CNN/Money story on it:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/04/news/fortune500/timewarner/index.htm

Citing a confidentiality agreement, Parsons did not provide new details about the joint bid Time Warner and Comcast submitted Monday for the assets of bankrupt Adelphia Communications, the country's No. 5 cable operator. Comcast and Time Warner are the country's No. 1 and No. 2 cable companies, respectively.

Some analysts have expressed concern about Time Warner's play for Adelphia. Reuters reported this week that the Time Warner-Comcast bid was around $17 billion, with Time Warner contributing more than 75 percent of it. Skeptical analysts, however, are worried about the future of the cable business, which is facing stiff competition from satellite operators, and Adelphia's eroding subscriber base.

Time Warner shares have slipped nearly 5 percent in the last month, after rising 20 percent in the last quarter of 2004. The stock hit a 52-week high in mid-December.

Parsons, however, said Friday that he thinks the cable business looks promising. "We believe we should grow our footprint if we can and we think there is an opportunity to do that" by acquiring Adelphia, he said.

Time Warner's play for Adelphia is far from a done deal. Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. and Providence Equity Partners have also submitted an offer. There's also the possibility that Adelphia will continue as a stand-alone business once it emerges from bankruptcy.

Originally posted by RexEctor
Haven't been around in a long time.
Adelphia SA8000 here in Ashtabula.
I was FLOORED when I did the reboot thing and channel 19 was there.
You guys are amazing!


Well, it's true we are amazing.:D But what's even more amazing is your post. So people are still not getting WOIO HD until they reboot because they don't know it's there?

Geeze.....what a comapany. No wonder they are going down in flames!

I see Adelphia continuing after they reorganize.
Does Adelphia compete with TW and Comcast in the urban areas?
I know out here in the stix they have no competition except for DBS. Maybe, in the long run, cable will go the way of the utility companies and we'll have a choice of who we want as our provider just like we do with 1st Energy etc.

Originally posted by RexEctor
I see Adelphia continuing after they reorganize.
Does Adelphia compete with TW and Comcast in the urban areas?
I know out here in the stix they have no competition except for DBS. Maybe, in the long run, cable will go the way of the utility companies and we'll have a choice of who we want as our provider just like we do with 1st Energy etc.

Except we pay higher utility bills in Ohio then anywhere else in the country. Deregulation was horrible.

Anyway, cable has alreayd been deregulated. I think in some areas there is competition but for the most part everyone has their territory.

I think that will change as soon as hell freezes over.:)

I still think TWC ends up with the Cleveland Adelphia system when it's all said and done.

I wonder if WOIO is aware that you apparently (for most) have to reboot to get WOIO-HD on Adelphia?

Well, for most...as I didn't. :D

I just sent a message to my contact at Adelphia about this. I suggested they reboot all the machines.

We'll see if anyone takes notice.

As I informed everyone yesterday, I sent an email to my contact at Adelphia about people still not getting WOIO HD until a reboot is done. The response back was that it is on the programing guide and if people are not getting it they should call in.:rolleyes:

I suggested a reboot but she said engineers said too many problems caused by doing that. Inundated, I know you don't want to but why not call your buddies at WOIO and tell them what's going on?

I did my part.:)

i'm not sure how you got the idea I know anyone at WOIO. ;)

In fact, for all the comments I've made about them, I'd probably be thrown out of the building! :D

But I've thought about dropping them an E-Mail and noting this problem to them.

Does anyone have a phone number for WUAB? It looks like they are planning to broadcast their own programming tonight instead of the regular UPN feed. Titantv shows the same thing(Friends) on both the analog and digital channels. I don't see why they couldn't just show their programming on the analog channel and show the HD UPN feed on the digital channel. That gives everyone a choice. I'd like to just call them and see if they would go for it. They probably won't but it can't hurt to try.
Steve

Originally posted by SteveC
Does anyone have a phone number for WUAB? It looks like they are planning to broadcast their own programming tonight instead of the regular UPN feed. Titantv shows the same thing(Friends) on both the analog and digital channels. I don't see why they couldn't just show their programming on the analog channel and show the HD UPN feed on the digital channel. That gives everyone a choice. I'd like to just call them and see if they would go for it. They probably won't but it can't hurt to try.
Steve

Steve, I don't know what's up with Titan TV, but according to ZAP2IT and Adelphia's guide Star Trek:Enterprise is on at 8:00 pm.

I took a look at Titan and I saw the same thing you did, but I have a lot of faith in ZAP2IT.COM. I have no faith in Adelphia. Still 2 out of 3 say Star Trek tonight.:)

WOIO, analog 19, D-10, CBS
general 877-929-1943
Harry Wilkens, chief engineer, 216-367-7450
Jim Kopanski **engineer, good guy 216-367-7455
Bryan Anderson, programming 216-367-7114

Intermod,
Thanks for the phone numbers. Hookbill, looks like zap2it was right. The regular UPN schedule is on. Looks like I better start using zap2it. Thanks for the response.
Steve

Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.

-Jim

Originally posted by Bizily
Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.

-Jim

They are opporating at a ultra low power & 'temporary' antenna. The vast majority of the area can't get it in so your situation is not unusual. I think the only people that can pull it in are the people with the camper sitting on that gravel road leading to that small hut under the antenna! ha! ;)

They are planning on improving that situation at some point soon.

Originally posted by Bizily
Is anyone receiving WVIZDT? According to their website, they've been broadcasting since August. I receive all the other OTAs (WKYCDT, WEWSDT, WOIODT, WUABDT, WJWDT), but can't seem to bring in WVIZDT.

-Jim


Yes! They have been on since last summer, They are transmitting from the brookpark rd. studio with I think 1kw from a 100 ft, tower. You can see the antenna from I480 near the state rd. ramp. I guess they plan to move it out to the North Royalton site this summer. They carry the same PBS stuff as 45/49 so you may have a better shot at the 50-1. Excellent pix and sound as one would expect from PBS.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4227927#post4227927

I know others on the board have reported success with Adelphia and a QAM tuner. I have a PC board (pcHDTV) that I have now configured to receive QAM. I get the basic channels over QAM (WKYC,WUAB,WEWS,WJW,WOIO and BARK) but none of them appear to be in hi-def, even for shows which are supposed to be. For instance, tonight on NBC law and order was supposed to be in HDTV, but I only got a resolution of 704x480, roughly 480p. I have not seen anything at a higher resolution. I know the card works since OTA I can get 1 channel on a good day at 1920x1080.

Also, I'm not sure entirely how the frequencies are working, but thy are showing up as:

51-3 WKYC
51-4 WOIO
51-5 WEWS
51-6 WUAB
51-8 WJW

Are these all lumped into one big channel with all the SDTV feeds for the regular cable boxes?

I have not officially signed up with Adelphia for hi-def anything. Do I need to? Can you do that without getting a set-top box which I don't want and can't use?

Can the other individual who got Adelphia QAM working please respond with what QAM frequencies you are getting these channels on?

Thanks.

On my Mitsubishi, the QAM tuner has the channels as follows:
WKYC-DT 105-3
WEWS-DT 105-5
WJW-DT 105-8
WVIZ-DT 113-1
WOIO-DT 113-2
I have broadcast basic cable only, and have no set-top box. These channels appeared without me doing anything as far as signing up. And my bill is still under $10 per month. I have not scanned in a few days, but have not seen WUAB-DT yet.

Originally posted by rljjr
On my Mitsubishi, the QAM tuner has the channels as follows:
WKYC-DT 105-3
WEWS-DT 105-5
WJW-DT 105-8
WVIZ-DT 113-1
WOIO-DT 113-2
I have broadcast basic cable only, and have no set-top box. These channels appeared without me doing anything as far as signing up. And my bill is still under $10 per month. I have not scanned in a few days, but have not seen WUAB-DT yet.

Also just to note, Adelphia doesn't charge anything for the local HD channels. Even without getting the HD package, you'll receive the local HD's.

Adelphia doesn't offer WUAB-DT yet, so I'm sure you won't be able to get it through QAM.

Originally posted by jtscherne
Adelphia doesn't offer WUAB-DT yet, so I'm sure you won't be able to get it through QAM. Perhaps, but it does make sense to watch for it. Adelphia just signed on with sister statsion WOIO, so it would make sense to expect WUAB to be next in line. And it would also make sense for it to show up on QAM even before Adelphia officially makes it available, just as WOIO did. Maybe one day they'll just drop it in at 113-3.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Perhaps, but it does make sense to watch for it. Adelphia just signed on with sister statsion WOIO, so it would make sense to expect WUAB to be next in line. And it would also make sense for it to show up on QAM even before Adelphia officially makes it available, just as WOIO did. Maybe one day they'll just drop it in at 113-3.

Well, whatever they do it will probably be hush hush until they actually do it. handsworth usually has a heads up on these things but he hasn't mentioned anything about WUAB as of yet.

Originally posted by davidshay
I know others on the board have reported success with Adelphia and a QAM tuner. I have a PC board (pcHDTV) that I have now configured to receive QAM. I get the basic channels over QAM (WKYC,WUAB,WEWS,WJW,WOIO and BARK) but none of them appear to be in hi-def, even for shows which are supposed to be. For instance, tonight on NBC law and order was supposed to be in HDTV, but I only got a resolution of 704x480, roughly 480p. I have not seen anything at a higher resolution. I know the card works since OTA I can get 1 channel on a good day at 1920x1080.

Also, I'm not sure entirely how the frequencies are working, but thy are showing up as:

51-3 WKYC
51-4 WOIO
51-5 WEWS
51-6 WUAB
51-8 WJW

Are these all lumped into one big channel with all the SDTV feeds for the regular cable boxes?

I have not officially signed up with Adelphia for hi-def anything. Do I need to? Can you do that without getting a set-top box which I don't want and can't use?

Can the other individual who got Adelphia QAM working please respond with what QAM frequencies you are getting these channels on?

Thanks.

I have an LG box that I can set for OTA or QAM. I scanned the cable this afternoon and found the following channels:

105-3 WKYC HD
105-5 WEWS HD
105-8 WJW HD
113-1 WVIZ HD
113-2 WOIO HD

There were intermittent dropouts on 113-1, and two thirds of the screen would occasionally turn green on 113-2.

There was a race on FOX, and on channels 102-1 through 102-7 there were seven alternate camera angles from within different cars. Also, 84-11 through 84-14 had several different basketball games, all with the ABC logo in the corner.

I also found music only stations on 93-21 through 93-45, and some PPV movies in progress on 104-1 through 104-8.

I tend to get better picture quality OTA, so I don't check the cable very often. A couple weeks ago it looked like they had taken the analog feed of all the local stations, converted it to digital, and sent them out on another channel. I did not see this when I scanned today, but it is probably what you found.

It used to be 19 you could count on to screw up HD, but now days it seems to be 5 not flipping the switch or otherwise messing up the HD feed.

First half of Desperate Housewives tonight in lovely SD stretch-o-vision. This is at least the 4th ep of DH (plus a couple eps of Lost) they've messed up the HD feed for at least half the episode in the last 2-3 months. Surprising they would have so many problems with their highest-rated shows.:confused:

Maybe it's time to "move" to an ABC O&O market:)

WEWS has had switch flipping problems before. Remember the Automatic Switch to SD at Midnight for Monday Night Football, anyone? They did this at least two weeks that I saw. There must be a timer somewhere...that they don't have set correctly!

So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?

It was fine through Adelphia in Shaker Heights.

Las Vegas was ib stetch-o-vision for at least part of the show. They may have fixed it at some point, but I had turned to CSI.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?

Oh no. Not again. Haven't seen it yet but I did record it.

My wife is getting more and more upset about these kind of things happening. I'm afraid she's going to start pushing to just watching these shows on digital only.

CSI was good-to-go OTA, way down here in South Portage Co. In fact most of the winter CBS OTA has been great. Did they fix something?

Originally posted by Chris Isble
I have an LG box that I can set for OTA or QAM. I scanned the cable this afternoon and found the following channels:

105-3 WKYC HD
105-5 WEWS HD
105-8 WJW HD
113-1 WVIZ HD
113-2 WOIO HD

There were intermittent dropouts on 113-1, and two thirds of the screen would occasionally turn green on 113-2.


Do you happened to know the exact frequency for, say, 105-3 ?

It would make sense that if you're going to have problems on one of the 113 subchannels, you'd have the same problem on all of the 113 subchannels. It's a single data stream carrying multiple channels. I didn't check the PBS station when I was having all those problems with CBS, but there's a good chance that the same phenomenon was occurring.

Hey guys, nice forum. I'm a very fresh noobie to HDTV and recently purchased a MyHD MDP-130 HD Tuner for my PC. In case you guys don't know, this tuner is a QAM tuner as well as an OTA tuner. I currently reside in Shaker Heights and am currently subscribed to adelphia's DTV package. I was wondering what channels I would be able to get through the QAM tuner (I'm assuming all the local channels)? Also is it worth it for me to buy an OTA antenna as well?

As far as the OTA antenna choices, I've read a lot about the Silver Sensor as well as the Radio Shack 15-1880. I have to go with an indoor antenna as I live in an apartment. Any recommendations on either of these antennas? Would it be better to get a Silver Sensor and buy an amplifier with it instead of the Radio Shack one? I've noticed a couple of Shaker Heights members, so I would love to hear what you guys use for OTA reception. Thanks in advance for the help.

Originally posted by Reesh
Hey guys, nice forum. I'm a very fresh noobie to HDTV and recently purchased a MyHD MDP-130 HD Tuner for my PC. In case you guys don't know, this tuner is a QAM tuner as well as an OTA tuner. I currently reside in Shaker Heights and am currently subscribed to adelphia's DTV package. I was wondering what channels I would be able to get through the QAM tuner (I'm assuming all the local channels)? Also is it worth it for me to buy an OTA antenna as well?

As far as the OTA antenna choices, I've read a lot about the Silver Sensor as well as the Radio Shack 15-1880. I have to go with an indoor antenna as I live in an apartment. Any recommendations on either of these antennas? Would it be better to get a Silver Sensor and buy an amplifier with it instead of the Radio Shack one? I've noticed a couple of Shaker Heights members, so I would love to hear what you guys use for OTA reception. Thanks in advance for the help.

Welcome!!

I've always found that the OTA is just a bit more crisp than Adelphia's locals. Not sure if it's a bit rate issue with Adelphia or what, but the OTA definately seems to have a bit more shadow detail & lighting detail. The other HD channels on Adelphia vs. Dish Network look about the same. Of course it also depends on how good your TV is as to how much difference you'll see. Adelphia's local HD's are fine, just not quite as good.

As for the antenna, I have both a Silver Sensor & the Radio Shack copper double bow-tie antenna. I've found the Radio Shack to be a bit better than the SS. Neither were great for getting NBC in, but all others came in with the Radio Shack. Not sure if it's the model you are speaking of, but the classic one was a copper colored double bowtie.

Hey, thanks for the reply. The radio shack model I'm talking about is the $50 that can receive both UHF and VHF signals. It also has a preamplifier built-in.

Here is a link:
Shoot, I can't post any links because I don't have enough posts yet!
but if you do a google search for "# 15-1880" it will take you immediately to the radio shack antenna. A couple of guys on the MDP-130 thread recommended this model, but I wanted to see if there were any Clevelanders with experience on good indoor antennas.

Thanks for the tip about OTA vs adelphia qam. There is a radio shack just down the street, so I think that if they have a good return policy I will go try this antenna out. As far as the Silver Sensor, are there any local stores that sell it or do I have to order online pretty much? Thanks again for the info and keep it coming guys :)

It all depends on your location & sight line to the towers as to which antenna works best. I'm out in Twinsburg with a far, but direct shot at the towers. I had a UHF/VHF antenna with preamp from Radio Shack before the copper bowtie & what I found is that it didn't pull in the stations any better than the $17 bowtie. Get both & see which works better & return the 'loser' of the two. I wouldn't waste the money on the silver sensor as for me, it was worse than the cheap RS antenna. I'm currently using the Channel Master Stealthtenna which is a small outdoor antenna with about a 3 foot span. It has been used by some people inside as well since it's relatively small. It's by far the best antenna I've used aside from huge yagi antennas.

I can't tell everyone here how thrilled I am to actually have found that there are fellow HD and AV techies like me in Cleveland. I always knew there were others around (and I've been reading the AVS forum for two years now), but I never bothered to see if CLE had a local message thread. Of course for me, this kind of neuron - disabled move is not uncommon.

Please forgive me as I am a bit of a noob (at least at posting to AVS), so if I am posting some of this in the wrong place or am too long - winded, I'm sorry in advance...no harm intended. I *do* think that the best advice for me, though, is local.

I have a couple of questions for my fellow NE Ohio HDTV and HTPC gurus out there. First, let me describe my system (I am sorry, but I don't do well with model numbers and am not at home to look them up...I can get them if needed, but will post what I know right now):

Note: CV = Component Video (not composite), DA = Digital Audio (not Digital to Analog Converter)

I have two main 'viewing rooms'. The first is our Family room; for the FR I have:

A Sony 65" CRT RP HDTV

A Sony HD DirecTV receiver (DVI out to the display & TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher)

An Onkyo Receiver / 5 Disk DVD player (CV out to CV switcher, TOSLINK in from TOSLINK switcher)

A Sony 400 DVD "jukebox" (CV out to CV switcher / SPDIF to DA converter (Radio Shack TOSLINK <-> SPDIF, then TOSLINK to rec.)

A Sony 400 CD "jukebox" (direct TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher)

A JVC HM40000 DVHS (CV to CV switcher, TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher)

A Zenith DVD player (SPDIF out to DA converter then TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, CV to CV switcher)

A Radio Shack remote controlled AV Switcher (with TOSLINK inputs and a single TOSLINK output) that I use just for the DA TOSLINK switching capabilities (TOSLINK out to rec.)

A (can't recall brand name - Japanese) remote controlled AV matrix switcher (with *broadband* HD CV inputs and dual matrix-ed outputs) that I use only for CV switching (CV then to display)

A Sony PS2 (for the kids...and me sometimes ;) ) with CV to CV switcher, TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, Ethernet in from Wifi bridge (to home wireless network)

Bose (I know, I know) (?300) front speakers for front, Bose center channel speaker, (?200) Bose rear speakers (5.1 setup)

Sony 200W powered sub-woofer.

Sony AV3000 programmable remote control.

A Monster "Stage 2" power conditioner

A 2000 W UPS (mostly for noise filtering - not all components are on the battery)


Whew! OK, as I mentioned, I also have a home wireless network (801 g/a) and the above setup also has an IR to PLC (Power line carrier) receiver to control room lighting via a whole - house X-10 system (Activehome Pro).


Now, for the second room (Game Room, basement family room) I have:

A GE 52" CRT RP HDTV (basically an RCA) - "El cheapo" display (Best Buy for $850 before the holiday w/discounts) - Only has a single CV input.

A Sony 6.1 DTS ES / DD EX receiver

An RCA (new) HD DirecTV satellite receiver (from same dish as the Sony in the Family Room) with CV out to CV switcher and TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher

An ADS CV (out) HD Video Processor / De - Interlacer / up-converter (9 inputs - 3 CV, 3 S Video, 3 Composite Vdeo)

A Liteon DVD recorder / player (CV out to CV switcher, SPDIF to DA converter then TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, s video in from sat. receiver and RL analog audio in from sat. receiver)

A JVC HM 30000 DVHS (I have a large collection of DVHS titles...so the JVC players come in handy) (CV out to CV switcher, TOSLINK out to TOSLINK switcher)

Another (also cheapo) DVD player (CV in to HD up-converter, TOSLINK in to TOSLINK switcher)

Another Sony PS2 (same as above - CV to CV switcher and TOSLINK to TOSLINK switcher, another wifi bridge)

Matched 6.1 Onkyo speaker system and 150W sub-woofer

Exact same RS TOSLINK switcher and CV switcher as with the Family Room System

Another Sony AV3000 programmable remote control

X-10 IR receiver (like above...for lighting control)

Monster Stage 2 power conditioner and UPS identical to above (UPS here is connected to the HTPC below)


In addition, this system has a new HTPC setup:

Gateway 825 HP Windows Media Center 2005 PC - 3 GB RAM, 1.2 TB total HD (1 250 GB HD, 2 400 GB internal HD's, 1 150 GB External USB 2.0 HD), Intel Pentium 3.6 GHz processor, ATI X700 Pro Video Card (with CV output to ADS Video Processor), Analog Audio out from integrated Intel HD Audio Card to Multi - Channel Input (5.1) on Sony receiver, 1 DVD / CD player, 1 DVD / CD Burner (DS / DL DVD Burner), Misc. PC accessories

This PC also is connected to the home wireless network via a second 801 a/g router with a 801 g access point (to pull in internet from the main router, cable modem in another part of the house).

This PC also drives the Activehome Pro Interface for home automation.

The DVHS is also connected to the HTPC via Firewire

Currently, the TV input to the HTPC is output from the RCA sat. receiver via S video and RL analog stereo inputs.

Project currently in progress: I've already purchased an HP Media Center Extender for the HTPC and am planning on connecting it to the Family Room (Sony 65" Display) system so that we can access the HTPC content on the main (Family Room) system. This will communicate with the router wired to the HTPC and should be able to stream audio and video (basically) seamlessly. Hopefully, this will be done over the weekend.




OK! I've you've followed all of that, then maybe you can help to answer some of my questions. Obviously, (much like many of you) I've invested a lot into these systems and would like to take them to the last logical step - HDTV HTPC.

Of course, many of you are already aware of the problems with this: It is impossible (without spending $1000 or more for a 169 time setup) to get HDTV into the HTPC via firewire (or any other arrangement). The only exception is: COX HDTV Cable!

Here is my plan: I already subscribe to Cox for HS Internet....I am considering keeping the DirecTV system but add COX HDTV service to the game room (HTPC) system. I will then be sure to get a STB with Firewire output and run this to the HTPC *and* the JVC DVHS. This should (under MCE 2005) allow me to record HDTV (from Cox) and transfer unprotected content to the JVC (for archive).

Here are my questions:

1 - Does anyone have Cox HDTV in the Cleveland Area (probably a dumb question)? If so, does anyone have a STB with firewire output?

2 - Have you been able to record HDTV content to either a DVHS unit or HTPC with the STB?

3 - What STB do you have?

4 - What STB am I likely to get from Cox (what are my options)?

5 - What problems am I likely to run in to by trying to use the Firewire output from the Cox STB to either my HTPC or JVC DVHS?

6 - Should I just quit and take up a new hobby (like drinking)?


For those of you who have lasted this long, I appreciate your attention. Any help on the whole "Cleveland Cox / HDTV STB / Firewire to DVHS or HTPC" will be immeasurably appreciated. I promise to give back now that I know you all are here!


Thanks in advance!

Now we know why the electronic retailers did so well this past year - Rayovac bought their entire inventory ^_^.

Sounds like a very nice system, welcome to the club.

I got a bit of a headache from his post so I'm opting for drinking.:)

Originally posted by hookbill
I got a bit of a headache from his post so I'm opting for drinking.:)

ROTFL. :p ha!

Off the bat, the trouble you may have with the firewire & cox cable box is that it might not have firewire!

-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
ROTFL. :p ha!

Off the bat, the trouble you may have with the firewire & cox cable box is that it might not have firewire!

-Todd

LOL!

Yeah, I suppose that could be a problem...I guess the fact that cox won't have any idea about what I am saying when I tell them that I "need a STB with IEEE-1394 or firewire output and you (cox) are required by the FCC to make this available to me" is also probably going to cause some trouble.

:{

Of course, that's why I was hoping that another Cleveland Cox subscriber who stops by here from time to time (and who happens to have HDTV service and a STB with IEEE-1394) would have some insight.

I do know that on the cox CLE site that it describes the Atlanta Scientific (?) stb which (based on the schematic) seems to have firewire...but then again, it also gives hookup instructions with a different Motorola box (5100 maybe?) that clearly has no compressed video output of any kind.

So, it's starting to look more like the "drinking" option....

Thanks for the help...er...encouragement!



Ray

Originally posted by Tom in OH
Now we know why the electronic retailers did so well this past year - Rayovac bought their entire inventory ^_^.

Sounds like a very nice system, welcome to the club.

LOL! That is *precisely* how I feel!

Actually, though, with the exception of one of the displays (the RCA), the Radio Shack components, and some miscellaneous cables and such, I got most of the components via the internet (which is probably why so many "tech" stocks are making a comeback (LOL)! and then some also at a real honest to goodness "mom and pop" tv shop in Parma.

We've accumulated this stuff over the last 2 to 3 years...and it's amazing how one part leads to another...which leads to another....which leads to another...

Which reminds me of another question: when we got the first display (and the satellite receiver) it was early 2002 and there was already digital programming on most of the major local networks (at least CBS 19, ABC 5, and NBC 3) and some HD programming. Who was the first in NE Ohio to actually broadcast digitally and who was the first with HD programming?

Just curious.


Ray

If they use the Scientific Atlanta 8300, it has HDMI. Won't that work for you? from their website:

HDMI 1.0 Digital Audio/Video Output with HDCP Copy Protection
Provides superior uncompressed digital video and audio quality in a simple, user-friendly connector. HDMI provides the optimal, secure connection to an HDTV set. HDMI is backward compatible with the DVI 1.0 video interfaces using the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable.



-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
If they use the Scientific Atlanta 8300, it has HDMI. Won't that work for you? from their website:

HDMI 1.0 Digital Audio/Video Output with HDCP Copy Protection
Provides superior uncompressed digital video and audio quality in a simple, user-friendly connector. HDMI provides the optimal, secure connection to an HDTV set. HDMI is backward compatible with the DVI 1.0 video interfaces using the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable.



-Todd

Oh gosh, no! Even if I could interface with HDMI *in* to either DVHS or a PC, the uncompressed nature of HDMI would make trying to record anything basically impossible.

If I can recall correctly, MPEG-2 compression of 720p (which should be the most data - intensive) is something like 12 GB per hour of material. With compression ratios (again, off of the top of my head...so don't quote me) of something like 10:1, even *if* I could grab HDMI uncompressed content I would fill one HD with one movie.

The unit that I am referring to is the 3250HD, which I found here:

http://www.cox.com/support/digitalcable/hdtv/pdf/sa_equip.pdf

It clearly shows that IEEE 1394 is available on the unit and even details the merits of the connection, but (of course) it doesn't say if cox provides the firewire model as the de-facto standard or if it needs to special - ordered, etc.

Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with <gulp> *technical support* at cox. God help me!

Ray

Originally posted by rayovac

Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with <gulp> *technical support* at cox. God help me!

Ray

Geeze, Ray. I can't understand 1/2 of what you say. How in the heck do you think technical support at the cable company is going to be able to help?:D

Good Luck.

Originally posted by rayovac
Oh gosh, no! Even if I could interface with HDMI *in* to either DVHS or a PC, the uncompressed nature of HDMI would make trying to record anything basically impossible.

If I can recall correctly, MPEG-2 compression of 720p (which should be the most data - intensive) is something like 12 GB per hour of material. With compression ratios (again, off of the top of my head...so don't quote me) of something like 10:1, even *if* I could grab HDMI uncompressed content I would fill one HD with one movie.

The unit that I am referring to is the 3250HD, which I found here:

http://www.cox.com/support/digitalcable/hdtv/pdf/sa_equip.pdf

It clearly shows that IEEE 1394 is available on the unit and even details the merits of the connection, but (of course) it doesn't say if cox provides the firewire model as the de-facto standard or if it needs to special - ordered, etc.

Anyhow, I am preparing myself for the reality of having to actually speak with <gulp> *technical support* at cox. God help me!

Ray

Well, here's hoping they provide the box you need. As another thought, I checked the cox website & it appears they also have the 8300HD DVR. I have this box as well & it does indeed have a firewire port. since it's a DVR, you'd be able to record right on the box. I'm not sure if the firewire port is enabled yet on mine (Adelphia), but if so, you can then use the VCR feature to record that DVR'd HD program through the firewire. That is all asuming that the firewire is setup & the box will do the VCR copy deal through the firewire. It may be that the VCR copy feature will work only via componant output. I'm not at all sure. The other option is just live with the recorded content being on the DVR itself. The 8300HD provides an option for an external SATA HDD so your storage would be unlimited.

good luck.

-Todd

Originally posted by hookbill
Geeze, Ray. I can't understand 1/2 of what you say. How in the heck do you think technical support at the cable company is going to be able to help?:D

Good Luck.

Well, I'll speak v e r y s l o w l y and be sure not to use big words!

LOL!

Ray

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Well, here's hoping they provide the box you need. As another thought, I checked the cox website & it appears they also have the 8300HD DVR. I have this box as well & it does indeed have a firewire port. since it's a DVR, you'd be able to record right on the box. I'm not sure if the firewire port is enabled yet on mine (Adelphia), but if so, you can then use the VCR feature to record that DVR'd HD program through the firewire. That is all asuming that the firewire is setup & the box will do the VCR copy deal through the firewire. It may be that the VCR copy feature will work only via componant output. I'm not at all sure. The other option is just live with the recorded content being on the DVR itself. The 8300HD provides an option for an external SATA HDD so your storage would be unlimited.

good luck.

-Todd

Many thanks for the info, Todd. This certainly could be an option (as you said, *if* the firewire is enabled). It would really be overkill, though, as I've already added almost 1000 GB (0.95 TB) to my HTPC for just this purpose (using Windows Media Center 2005 as the DVR).

Still, in case nobody noticed, I've never been one to avoid adding another component to the system. Why add one part (an STB) when I can add two in the same case for only twice the money (STB and DVR)?

LOL!

Seriously, though, it could turn out that this is an option (maybe the *only* option). Hearing that you've had good luck with the unit certainly puts me at ease if this winds up being the way to go.

Thanks again for the feedback...somehow I'm not surprised that you folks have been so nice!


Ray

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
So what was up with CBS tonight? CSI: Miami was pretty much unwatchable with severe dropouts in both audio and video through the entire 90 minute show. Was the problem at WOIO, or at Adelphia, or was it local to my neighborhood? Did anyone else have the same problem?

I finally got around to watching this last night. My recording was near perfect, I heard one very brief glich in the sound.

I'm in Bainbridge, not far from you Jim. You had me worried. I guess this must have been confined to your neighborhood.

I don't know how long it will last, but for those of you with Adelphia and QAM tuners, ppv movies on various 104 sub-channels are currently in the clear.

Question for everyone: I just bought a sony 42WE655 which has a built in tuner. I live in Stow and tried an OTA antenna and could get 3.1 most of the time, but cant get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, etc. I am looking into satelite or cable, but Time Warner is almost twice of what Directv is, but Directv told me I have to buy a HD reciever for $299 to even get the HD channels. Is there a way I can get HD with my tuner and spend around $40/ mo???

Which antenna do u have? It's strange 3.1 is the only one coming in. U might have success yet with a little tweaking or a bigger antenna. A small movement can make a big diff.

I have tried just generic rabbit ears and a terk indoor antenna with a 40 db amplifier, wit that I could get 8.1 some, but it would drop every few minutes. I just moved into this duplex, eith my old SD tv at my parents which is 2 mi away, I would get good SD, in this place its bad.

I'm pretty sure rabbit ears are tuned for VHF which would explain 3.1 coming in. Terk's antennas have a poor reputation. I bet you'll have better results pulling in the local digitals with a good VHF/UHF antenna.

The 40 db amplifier might be his other problem. If you can turn off the amplifier, do it.

I have an RCA ANT-1205 indoor amplified antenna, and when you crank up the amp, the local stations all but disappear. With it turned off, the stations come in fine. I live not terribly far from the OP...maybe a little closer to the Parma antenna farm.

I'd agree. My signal for locals is always worse with an amp. Not sure why that is though.