I went and bought the cheapest outdoor antenna from the Shack, and it worked great. If you go that route, make sure you know their exchange policy first. Some Shack's are owned independently. They tend to be able to return more items. I tried every indoor antenna, don't waste your time. Just get an outdoor one. Also, I know that NBC and CBS are on VHF, not UHF so you will need an antenna that gets both.

And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.
Columbus has one, but I don't follow them. I follow the Philadelphia Flyers. Anyways, Indians fans are not loyal to the team, if people loved them so much, the the old stadium would've had more then 5,000 fans a night. CLEVELAND WILL ALWAYS BE A BROWNS TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Don't generalize so much about Indians fans. By the end of this season, I will have gone to at least 100 games from 02-05. I know other people who are die hard as well. Saying this town will always be a Browns Town is true. It will. It shows how stupid the people of Cleveland are. More hype about a Browns team on the rebuild vs. an Indians team potentially making the playoffs. Oh and if anyone says, what about the Cavs, they almost made the playoffs last year? Well, its not to hard when 53% of teams make the playoffs in the NBA. Oh and Hockey is cool, but the NHL sucks too.

Again, I love all 3 teams, but for the Browns to sell out and not the Tribe, well thats a shame.

I am still having trouble with OTA locals from DirecTV. They installed a pretty cheap antenna (so I am told) a couple weeks ago and I have had very poor reception since then (ie unable to watch Browns in HD last weekend, WKYC faded in and out all night last night). I live in Lakewood about 8 miles from the various towers. I have been told that with "rabbit ears" I would get better HD reception than with the antenna I have. I am not sure the make/model but have been told that it is a pretty old model that is ineffective. My question: does anyone on this forum use an internal antenna and what is the success? I figure with my current set-up I have a couple of things working against me: 1) a bad antenna and 2) my OTA goes through a DirecTV diplexer (although I heard this has minimal effect on my HD signal). I am not sure how much money and effort I want to spend on this as I have heard that DirecTV will begin offering HD locals either late 2005 or by April 2006. Any help on how I can watch local HD until then is appreciated - I primarily want to watch the Browns when they are in HD.
Here is part of your problem:
I live in Lakewood about 8 miles from the various towers.
Hav you ever watched analog tv OTA at your location? For reasons unknown (terrain, Hopkins Airport traffic, directional transmisions northward cut back since most of the signal goes over the lake, etc.) Lakewood has always had terrible OTA reception problems. As close as Lakewood is to Parma you would think that the reception would be pristine. I have seen this problem first-hand when I did E* dish installs as a hobby (and before Cleveland LIL's were offered).

With analog you still get the picture, just with ghosts. With digital "ghosts" (Multipath) is the kiss of death.

What you'll need to do is get a decent OUTDOR VHF/UHF combination antenna and
try several different locations on your property. Hopefully you'll find a sweet spot where interference is at a minimum and all desired stations come in reliably. A little bit higher or a little bit to the east or west may make a big difference.

I experienced this with the stations that broadcast for Akron at my old house. Five feet east of my chimney gave me good receptiopn on stations that were virtually unwatchable from my chimney (analog 23 & 49).

I have a question i hope i can get a answer to. I just bought a VU-120XR from the shack i live in Eastlake and im having trouble getting 10 (CBS) and 31 (FOX) everything else is good my signal on 10,31 is around 28-50 and when it gets up hi enough the picture comes in. i have tired rotating the the 120 and the signal doesnt change much. Is there anything else to try or do i need a pre-amp?

Thanks
FOX 8 (31) is a little bit farther south than the rest of the Cleveland locals from Eastlake (but not by much). WKYC & WOIO are the farthest north and are the only 2 VHF digitals at this time. If you had to do it over, I'd get seperate VHF and UHF only antennas. Aim the VHF slightly more ESE and the UHF more SSE. The only UHF's at the north end are Univision 61/34 and WBNX 55 (not digital yet).

If you want to "shoot for the middle" see if you can peak out your signal strength meter on WEWS (5/15). WJW is very close to WEWS to the south and WUAB is very close to the north.

Good luck to all!

Thanks for the help now the next question if i use two antennas a uhf and a vhf how do i combine the signals? i figure with a 2 into 1 type connector any suggestions there?

Thanks for the help now the next question if i use two antennas a uhf and a vhf how do i combine the signals? i figure with a 2 into 1 type connector any suggestions there?
Get a splitter/combiner that is labeled with seperate UHF & VHF inputs. Having inputs that are band specific will filter out stray signals (i.e. out-of-band). For example most UHF antennas will also pick-up the very top end of the VHF band. You would want to filter out the VHF signals that the UHF antenna might pick-up. A band-specific combiner does that.

A few questions:

1.) I live in downtown Akron and have the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna (UHF only). I'm getting good to great reception from all UHF channels, but would like to purchase an indoor VHF antenna to see if I can also get CBS and NBC. Do any of you have any suggestions as to a particular brand/model?

2.) The coax cable that came with my Silver Sensor is lousy. What do you suggest I upgrade to?

3.) Finally, my antenna signal only runs over 6 feet of cable. Would an amplifier make much of a difference in signal strength?

Thanks for the help.

I have been looking for peoples' experience with the SharpShooter 3000 indoor antenna as I'm trying to optimize my OTA HD experience. the antenna I have connected to my DirecTV HR10-250 (HD/Tivo) now, an RCA amplified loop, simply sucks, rather disappointing given I live on a hill in Bedford, 13 miles from the local transmitters.

Because I live in the Cleveland market, I require an antenna that can handle low-UHF channels like Channel 3 (DT is on channel 2), and Channel 19 (DT is on channel 10). I therefore can't just buy a Silver Sensor and forget it.

In any case, I'm interested in the above antenna, not the Terk look-alike, as I've heard some good things about it.

Thanks in advance. Please, no comments about going outside, that is an absolute last resort, especially with MPEG4 HD locals coming to DirecTV in the next year or two.

In any case, I'm interested in the above antenna, not the Terk look-alike, as I've heard some good things about it.

I was going to correct you, but I wasn't aware there WAS a "SharpShooter", and it appears to be an entirely different model than the "SquareShooter" from the same company:

http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharpshooter/pdf/SharpShooter_12-08.pdf

Hmmm...I wonder how good this is?

the Pats- Stellers game doesn't look like it's in HD. Is there a number to call WOIO to correct this

my bad I spelled Steelers wrong

my bad I spelled Steelers wrong

Kosar, me and Inundated called the station at the same time and they magically flipped the switch. It's HD now.

My thanks to Indundated over on the CBS NFL Week 3 thread, here's the WOIO tipline number for future reference:
Tipline Phone #: (216) 781-1900 or (877) 929-1943

I hate bugging the newsroom folks about that sort of thing, but WOIO is actually usually pretty good about this sort of thing. Their biggest problem is usually forgetting to switch AWAY from the late game's HD feed. :D

WOIO back to overstretched SD for the second half. Arrgh.

Back to HD on WOIO. Thanks again, Paul!

I was going to correct you, but I wasn't aware there WAS a "SharpShooter", and it appears to be an entirely different model than the "SquareShooter" from the same company:

http://www.winegard.com/offair/sharpshooter/pdf/SharpShooter_12-08.pdf

Hmmm...I wonder how good this is?

I looked at the Squareshooter 2000 but really don't want an outdoors solution with DirecTV HD locals around the corner. The Sharpshooter 3000 was just released in July, and a Terk lookalike shortly thereafter (which, not surprisingly, got bad reviews).

I looked at the Squareshooter 2000 but really don't want an outdoors solution with DirecTV HD locals around the corner. The Sharpshooter 3000 was just released in July, and a Terk lookalike shortly thereafter (which, not surprisingly, got bad reviews).

I saw the Terk look alike on Best Buy's website. I know Terk actually rebrands the SquareShooter...i.e. it IS the exact same antenna, only $50 more (!!!)...but I didn't know if this was a rebrand of the SharpShooter or a knockoff, like their HDTVi is (vs. Silver Sensor).

I'd love to see if the SharpShooter does well around here. It sounds, from the specs and the initial info in the press release, like it might solve many problems, particularly with WKYC-DT.

Oh Hockey....the profesional sport that wasn't played last year.

Nope, didn't miss that one at all.

And what local hockey team is there here? Is it in the NHL? These are serious questions, I don't ever recall hearing about a Cleveland hockey team.


For what it is worth the Cleveland Barons played in the NHL. They were
the California Golden Seals and then merged with the Minnisota North Satrs
and eventually became that Dallas Stars.

See
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/cleveland/barons.html

:D

Regards

For what it is worth the Cleveland Barons played in the NHL. They were
the California Golden Seals and then merged with the Minnisota North Satrs
and eventually became that Dallas Stars.


And Cleveland had a World Hockey Association team, the Crusaders, which played in the old Richfield Coliseum. (And I do mean "the old", as they tore it down not long after Gund Arena was built downtown.)

But hookbill's larger point stands...Cleveland really doesn't take to hockey. There's a very small, diehard base here - like 5,000 or so - that shows up for the minor league games, but even the AHL Barons are not sure to return to the Convocation Center next year.

The Blue Jackets have some fans up here, but most of 'em are probably that same group that goes to the Barons' games.

I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.

Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.

I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.

Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.

Tell them to "take a hike" per the below site/information.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

I've been receiving HD through an over-the-air antenna and HD receiver for about a month. I just got a letter in the mail from the allotment association saying the the deed restrictions prohibit outside antennas.

Does the Communications Act of 1996 still protect individuals against such restrictions being levied? Can anyone point me in the right direction or just tell me that I am crazy? Thanks.
I wish that HOA's would be delcared unamerican and be abolished. All that is necessary are good zoning ordinances to keep cars off blocks, grass cut etc.. That it the City's business, not a buch of nosy would-be 3rd world dictator neighbors. Nobody is going to tell me what color to paint my house or stop me from erecting any antenna I want (within reason).

I have the Terk HDTVa and here are the stations I recieve:

D3-1 WKYC-HD
D3-2 WKYC-WX
D5-1 WEWS-DT
D8-1 WJW-DT

D17-1 WDLI-D1
D17-2 WDLI-D2
D17-3 WDLI-D3
D17-4 WDLI-D4 }religion

D19-1 WOIO-DT
D43-1 WUAB-TV
D43-2 TUBE (Music - non-comercial)
D50-1 WEAO-D1
D50-2 WEAO-D2
D61-1 WQHS-DT

I have no complaints aobut the antena but without the amp it doesn't do much. and I live in the North/West Medina area.

Is anyone having problems with copy protection with Comcast? I live in North Ridgeville and I'm getting this error using the firewire port connection to my JVC 40000 D-VHS:

"Copy Restrictetd Prog Output 480I Video (302)"

I have the Phase III 6412 Motorola Box and I never had this problem with the 6412 Phase I box that I was using up until last week. I get this on all the HDTV Channels.

I have the Terk HDTVa and here are the stations I recieve:

D3-1 WKYC-HD
D50-1 WEAO-D1
D50-2 WEAO-D2

I have no complaints aobut the antena but without the amp it doesn't do much. and I live in the North/West Medina area.

...same stations here w/the HDTivo except

50-2
50-3 PBS HD
50-4

And I'm still getting WKYC HD on both:
3-1
3-3

I'm just wondering if anyone viewed this show live Friday or recorded it and viewed it. For some reason my DVR only caught 19 minutes of this show. I noticed that on other CBS show's they were having a great deal of glitches and the last 15 minutes of Numb3rs was in SD in lovely stretch-o-vision.

I have the Terk HDTVa

Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?

That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.

Oh, and 17-x is WDLI, not WLDI.

Is anyone having problems with copy protection with Comcast? I live in North Ridgeville and I'm getting this error using the firewire port connection to my JVC 40000 D-VHS:

"Copy Restrictetd Prog Output 480I Video (302)"

I have the Phase III 6412 Motorola Box and I never had this problem with the 6412 Phase I box that I was using up until last week. I get this on all the HDTV Channels.
You can thank the DCMA (Digital Copyright Millineum Act) for that message. The only way you can record to the DVHS is via the analog outputs.

Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?

That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.



Yes and no. It does look like the Silver Sensor, with the dipoles also. However, I think this differs from the HDTVi in that the "a" stands for amplified. Mine has an amplifier, and it actually pulls in pretty good signals here in Chardon. Though, as I say that, I am getting an outdoor antenna installed this week :)

I've heard about my problem in other areas of the country, but I was able to record using the Phaser I 6412 Motorola box via Firewire within the last week or 2. Did Comcast just enable the copyright flag in our area within that time?

I'd love to see if the SharpShooter does well around here. It sounds, from the specs and the initial info in the press release, like it might solve many problems, particularly with WKYC-DT.

Well, we'll see if it works......I ordered a SharpShooter today and it should be here later this week.

Dang, if only Cleveland didn't have any VHF HDTV channels, I could probably skate by with a Silver Sensor....

Which one is this? Is this the Silver Sensor knockoff with the aerial antennas?

That's the HDTVi, I believe. I only ask because I don't know if they've introduced a new "a" antenna.





Yes, it is, I didn't know that the Silver Sensor was the first. and the a is for the amp that plugs into the wall and the end of the coax cable. it has a switch that can be turned on and off, but if unplugged it doesn't pick up much.

Does the Silver Sensor have any type of amp attachment?


Oh, and 17-x is WDLI, not WLDI. :eek: Typo Fixed

Dang, if only Cleveland didn't have any VHF HDTV channels, I could probably skate by with a Silver Sensor....


..agreed on VHF, how did NBC end up with ch. 2? It disappears everytime someone turns on the vacuum upstairs(electrical interference I guess).

I'm just wondering if anyone viewed this show live Friday or recorded it and viewed it. For some reason my DVR only caught 19 minutes of this show. I noticed that on other CBS show's they were having a great deal of glitches and the last 15 minutes of Numb3rs was in SD in lovely stretch-o-vision.

...just checked our recording of "Ghost Whisperer" and it's all there. Had high hopes for this show but ya never know for sure until 3 or 4 episodes. I'll save it for ya in case u'd like to stop by to see it...

Just spoke with engineer at WTOL in Toledo. They were just bought by Raycom ( owns WOIO and WUAB here). Cost to pass thru Dolby Digital sound is between 7-10 thousand for the equipment.
Why cant WEWS and WOIO give us 5.1 sound
They seem to be our most problematic stations

Just spoke with engineer at WTOL in Toledo. They were just bought by Raycom ( owns WOIO and WUAB here). Cost to pass thru Dolby Digital sound is between 7-10 thousand for the equipment.
Why cant WEWS and WOIO give us 5.1 sound
They seem to be our most problematic stationsYou answered your own question "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" Since when has any Cleveland station spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ to do any upgrade correctly?

You answered your own question "$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$" Since when has any Cleveland station spent $$$$$$$$$$$$ to do any upgrade correctly?

WJW Fox 8

WJW Fox 8

Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.

And that's funny...WJW FOX 8 has the market's ONLY locally-originated HDTV content.

Cleveland is one of a number of pro sports markets with NO locally produced HDTV coverage of any of its major pro teams. It's certainly smaller than, say, NYC or Chicago (two markets that do have local HDTV sports), but smaller markets do better...San Diego is a smaller market than Cleveland, and the Padres not only have HDTV coverage, they have their own HD channel on Cox Cable there! (4SD)

Part of the problem, of course, is Fox Sports Net Ohio, a notoriously cheap operation that doesn't even have local *SD* programming outside the actual games and "on the fly" pre-game and post-game shows.

Yes, it is, I didn't know that the Silver Sensor was the first. and the a is for the amp that plugs into the wall and the end of the coax cable. it has a switch that can be turned on and off, but if unplugged it doesn't pick up much.

Does the Silver Sensor have any type of amp attachment?


For whatever reason, Terk hasn't added the HDTVa to their website, but you can find it all over if you do a Google search on "HDTVa". It appears to be about $45-50ish, and Radio Shack may actually have it. Their online catalog shows what is listed as the HDTVi, but at $49 and with "Amplified" in the name.

I'm still put off by Terk-anything, though we do have a couple of regulars here who use the non-amplified HDTVi and are OK with it.

My problem here isn't amplification. The UHF signals in the Cleveland market all come in like gangbusters if the antenna's pointed in the right direction...and I have a cheapie RCA amplified antenna with amplification turned off. If I turn on the amplifier to any degree, it wipes out all the signals.

The only problem I have OTA is WKYC-DT, and amplification does nothing to even remotely help that. I suspect if I'm gonna get WKYC-DT OTA at all with an indoor antenna, that SharpShooter might be the only choice. But since I have cable, I'm not terribly worried about it.

Oh, the Silver Sensor has no amplification.

Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.
What stations are "Cleveland Owned"?

A check of the FCC database reveals that:
WKYC-TV Inc. c/o Gannett Co. McLean, VA
WEWS: Scripps Howard Broadcasting Company, Cincinnati, OH
WJW License Inc, Washington DC
WOIO & WUAB: Raycom National Inc. Montgomery, AL
WBNX Winston BRoadcasting Co. Cuyahoga Falls, OH (close, but still not "Cleveland")
WQHS Univision Cleveland LLC, Los Angeles, CA
WVIZ is the only station with a Cleveland "owner": Ideastream

Except it's not a "Cleveland owned" station. It's actually owned by FOX.

He just said Cleveland station, not Cleveland owned.

I ordered a Winegard SharpShooter SS-3000 from Summit Source (Ft. Wayne, IN) earlier this week, received it tonight. I've been fooling around with it tonight and find it's pretty much place it and forget it. All the HD stations have 88-95% signal according to my DirecTV HR10-250 except for WKYC-DT, which is in the low 60's. NOT BAD for a first effort. With the old amplified RCA loop I used before, I was getting 60's-70's for all channels, and was getting WJW-DT only intermittently.

So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.

To note: I am in Bedford/Oakwood , 13 miles north and east of the Parma towers, and on a slight hill with lots of trees.

NOT BAD for a first effort. With the old amplified RCA loop I used before, I was getting 60's-70's for all channels, and was getting WJW-DT only intermittently.

So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.

To note: I am in Bedford/Oakwood , 13 miles north and east of the Parma towers, and on a slight hill with lots of trees.

Hi,
are u receiving PBS channels w/ your HDTivo?

It used to be on 50-1 but now that channel is blank. Are u receiving PBS HD on channel 50-3? (50-2 and 50-4 are SD).

No, I'm not. I can't receive channel 25 (WVIZ-DT) because the transmitter is too far away and too weak--I'd have to get an outside antenna for that, so forget that.

I can sometimes get channel 49's digital transmissions, but they are weak even in optimal conditions with an indoor antenna.

I simply depend on the satellite for those channels.

Well,
The Antenna guy came out and did a survey, and the signal in my neighborhood appears to be too weak for me to get HD OTA. So, is Adelphia any good around here? And if you just want the local channels, do you still have to pay extra. I'm looking to see what someone else has, since the Adelphia site doesn't really have any info at all. (Basically, it lets you enter your info so someone can call you :) )


Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike: I am in the Chardon area and feel your pain on the HD OTA. I still have a perfectly useless Directv antenna on my roof that brings in nothing! I've always had a locals only account with Adelphia, for when the dish goes out. It includes HD local channels, and is under $10 per month. I even picked up their HD DVR for recording said locals, and my total bill is under $24 per month. I use my HDTivo for the other channels.
Bob

Wow! HD locals with a local channel account on Adelphia for $10 a month? I didn't know that was even an option. That's a steal!

If I couldn't get OTA channels, that'd be the way I'd get my locals.

WBNX Winston BRoadcasting Co. Cuyahoga Falls, OH (close, but still not "Cleveland")
(snip)
WVIZ is the only station with a Cleveland "owner": Ideastream

Considering that the Cleveland market includes not only Cuyahoga Falls, but Akron, Canton and even Mansfield, I'd count WBNX as "local ownership" here. And it certainly serves as the entire market's WB affiliate, with a full-power transmitter in Brecksville (Cuyahoga County).

And in addition to WVIZ, the other local public broadcaster (WNEO/WEAO) is also locally owned.

Everybody else is owned by large out-of-town chains.

Hi,
are u receiving PBS channels w/ your HDTivo?

It used to be on 50-1 but now that channel is blank. Are u receiving PBS HD on channel 50-3? (50-2 and 50-4 are SD).

50-4? I'm only getting two channels out of WEAO-DT - 50-1 (HD, 24 hour PBS HD feed) and 50-2 (SD simulcast of OTA WEAO/49). Of course, I get them rather easily because I am well within the station's service area in Akron.

So, it appears to have been a well-spent $94.


Hmm, sounds good. I'm still not sure it's worth it for me because I get everyone except WKYC-DT with no problem right now, and I have Adelphia, which I usually use for locals, anyway...

But thanks for the report!

No, I'm not. I can't receive channel 25 (WVIZ-DT) because the transmitter is too far away and too weak--I'd have to get an outside antenna for that, so forget that.

I can sometimes get channel 49's digital transmissions, but they are weak even in optimal conditions with an indoor antenna.

I simply depend on the satellite for those channels.

Hi Bob,
same here for WVIZ-DT, not even a 'blip'. I was curious if your HDTivo showed WEAO-DT on the 50's. Makes me happy to be able to receive their high def version on 50-3(PBS HD) (used to be 50-1) and wondered if all HDTivos tuned this channel on the new position 50-3. It's never showed up in the guide. It has to be punched in manually.

Hi Bob,
same here for WVIZ-DT, not even a 'blip'. I was curious if your HDTivo showed WEAO-DT on the 50's. Makes me happy to be able to receive their high def version on 50-3(PBS HD) (used to be 50-1) and wondered if all HDTivos tuned this channel on the new position 50-3. It's never showed up in the guide. It has to be punched in manually.

This must be a DirecTV thing. On my OTA receiver, WEAO-DT has always been:

50-1 - PBS HD 24 hour feed
50-2 - WEAO/49 SD simulcast

I just rescanned 50 for the heck of it, and it hasn't changed. I know DirecTV could be different since they use program data from Tribune Media Services for the HDTivo, which could be causing what you describe.

This must be a DirecTV thing. On my OTA receiver, WEAO-DT has always been:

50-1 - PBS HD 24 hour feed
50-2 - WEAO/49 SD simulcast

I just rescanned 50 for the heck of it, and it hasn't changed. I know DirecTV could be different since they use program data from Tribune Media Services for the HDTivo, which could be causing what you describe.

Just checked again and 50-3 is still the PBS HD(alliance/akron). 50-2 and 50-4 are both showing the SD simulcast of 49. It must be a mismatch somewhere with the program data like u said.

Just checked again and 50-3 is still the PBS HD(alliance/akron). 50-2 and 50-4 are both showing the SD simulcast of 49. It must be a mismatch somewhere with the program data like u said.

And part of it must be that WNEO/WEAO do not remap their HD channels OTA to their analog channel numbers. In addition to WEAO-DT being 50-1/2 instead of 49-1/2, WNEO is 46-1/2 instead of 45-1/2.

Considering that the Cleveland market includes not only Cuyahoga Falls, but Akron, Canton and even Mansfield, I'd count WBNX as "local ownership" here. And it certainly serves as the entire market's WB affiliate, with a full-power transmitter in Brecksville (Cuyahoga County).

And in addition to WVIZ, the other local public broadcaster (WNEO/WEAO) is also locally owned.

Everybody else is owned by large out-of-town chains.WBNX's transmitter was moved to Parma around 10 years ago. It's behind Parmadale/Camp Corde' next to WQHS's tower. The WBNX tower also has nearly every LPTV station's antenna as well: ch 35, 53, and 65. So if you are aiming an antenna for WBNX, forget Brecksville!

When WBNX first came on the air the transmitter was located in Brecksville on the same tower that has WTAM (then WWWE) and I believe 93.1 FM. I could not get the ch 55 signal at all in Euclid when they were transmitting from Brecksville.

As for PBS: I can get both WVIZ and WEAO using a Silver Sensor indoor antenna. I have to aim then antenna differently for these stations, neither come in well or at all when I'm aimed at WJW/WEWS/WUAB.

WEAO maps to 050-01 PBS HD, and 050-02 WEAO's SD feed (same as analog 49)
This is on an Echostar PVR 921. While I never had it happen on WEAO, I have had false mappings (where you get additional subchannels that are the same as the main feeds) on other OTA digital stations. I believe it's caused by a PSIP data error form the broadcaster's end. A rescan (once the broadcaster fixes the error) usually fixes the problem.

WVIZ's 025-01 is PBS HD, 025-02 is The Ohio Channel, 025-09 is CRRS an audio only reading service for the blind that may also be on the analog feed's sap channel. WVIZ does not simulcast their analog feed as SD digital at this time :(
That is a shame, I find myself watching WEAO insted for the SD feed.

Thx for the channel info michael and inundated. It's also good we bring this up just to be sure everyone knows how to find the channels in case they don't show up in the guide and have to be punched in manually. It's a chore but anything HD is worth a look... ^_^

WBNX's transmitter was moved to Parma around 10 years ago. It's behind Parmadale/Camp Corde' next to WQHS's tower. The WBNX tower also has nearly every LPTV station's antenna as well: ch 35, 53, and 65. So if you are aiming an antenna for WBNX, forget Brecksville!

Oops, I don't know why Brecksville stuck in my head. You're right, they're in Parma now. They moved shortly after I left the market.

You know when that frequency was first proposed, by then-Cathedral of Tomorrow head Rev. Rex Humbard, he was gonna put the antenna on top of the now-unfinished tower on State Road?

If they'd have done that, I'd have been able to pick up both 55 and whatever its DT would become with a coat hanger. :D

Wow! HD locals with a local channel account on Adelphia for $10 a month? I didn't know that was even an option. That's a steal!

If I couldn't get OTA channels, that'd be the way I'd get my locals.


I second that Wow... I didn't think it was possible to get anything from Adelphia for less than 10 bucks :)

This weekend, I drover over to Sandusky to visit friends, and had to chuckle at the Adelphia billboard I saw on I-90. It said "Starting at $15 dollars a month" I just have BASIC cable and its almost $50. ??

I'll call them up and see if I can get the same deal though, thanks for the tip :)

Mike

Did anyone else have reception problems in the morning and most of the afternoon yesterday? Fox usually comes in fine for me but yesterday it was as if my antenna was faulty or there was bad weather.

From Painesville Twp., ABC & Fox are in the same direction; so when I changed the channel to 5.1 (ABCDT) I got perfect reception. Oh, and the weather was fantastic: sunny and in the low 80's.

Later in the late afternoon and evening, the transmission seemed to be fine. What gives?

Thanks,

Sorry...I didn't check the WJW-DT OTA signal. I did occasionally go by the FOX HD feed of whatever NFL game(s) they were carrying, but I was watching via Adelphia. I saw no problems.

I *believe* Adelphia gets their HD channels by just picking up the signal OTA - I know for sure they do this with both WVIZ and WEWS. Of course, Adelphia has much larger antennas closer to the towers than you. :)

WEWS-DT just went blank for a few minutes, with Monday Night Football in HD (and audio still going).

It just went up tonight. They appear to be having occasional glitches...nothing huge, but maybe a sign of why it went out.

This doesn't mean more HD, but I noticed today that the 800's have a whole bunch (if not all) of their analog stations listed on the guide in that range. Probably that means they are getting ready to switch to digital soon. That will be great for us with the 8000, and 8300. Picture should be sharp and clear, also better sound as well.

More then likely they will swifch out their analog people to the 800 stations and carry the digital on the current station as they have done in the past.

I understand the 800's but I can't figure why they created the 903,904,905, 906 and 908 channels. Handsworth alerted us to this a few weeks ago. It will be nice.

JoeySR

I understand the 800's but I can't figure why they created the 903,904,905, 906 and 908 channels. Handsworth alerted us to this a few weeks ago. It will be nice.

JoeySR

I must of missed handsworths post. I was surprised when I saw it this morning that I didn't hear about it first from handsworth.

I believe they will test all the channels on this 800 line up until they are sure they are working correctly. Once they see everything working ok they will probably delete 903-908.

Well I just got my new TV last night (Sony 34XBR960) and hooked it up to my antnenna mounted on the roof (2-story house). The TV has the built in ATSC tuner and works good. I received WOIO-DT in HD, but nothing else. I live in Akron, by the way, near Firestone Park. Would somone be so kind to list which stations are broadcasting in HD right now and tips to pull them in. I'd like to watch WKYC-DT to see Conan O'Brien in HD, but am not able to get a signal from them. (I've read troublesome things about Channel 2) I'd also like to see the MLB Playoffs in HD. Is WJW (Fox 8) broadcasting in 720P or 1080i ?
Thanks in advance.
Mike

vox,
You can find the list of stations broadcasting digitally at www.antennaweb.org

Fox and ABC broadcast 720p, all the others (CBS, NBC, PBS) are 1080i

From MediaWeek, By John Consoli
October 05, 2005

Fox Sports Net will carry 253 more live regional sports telecasts in high definition throughout the next year (October 2005 to September 2006), boosting its number of live HD telecasts to 475.

Sixty of those will be National Hockey League games, which did not air last season due to the NHL lockout. There will also be additional telecasts of National Basketball Association games and other sports in various local markets.

Randy Freer, COO of Fox Sports Net, said the goal by the end 2006 is "to be televising a majority of the live sporting events in each of our markets in HD."

FSN is the leading producer of HD local programming "on a pure number-of-events basis", Freer said. "Because we are doing it in local markets, we sometimes operate below the radar and don't get the recognition that the national broadcast networks get."

Producing the games creates a more valuable service for the cable operators to sell, added Freer. FSN now has a number of dual-production trucks that allow for the transmission of two analog and two HD telecasts out of the same truck, giving the net the ability to televise a game to both home and away audiences in both analog and HD.

FSN is producing its live game telecasts in HD for all cable operators except Comcast, with whom Freer says FSN is currently having conversations.

I see they've settled the Cavs TV schedule. Mostly an FSN Ohio and WUAB split.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/television_schedule_050928.html

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/index.html

Would somone be so kind to list which stations are broadcasting in HD right now and tips to pull them in.
Thanks in advance.
Mike

I have the Terk HDTVa indoor antenna connected to a JVC H-DILA 52G786 and here are the stations I recieve in NW Medina:

D3-1 WKYC-HD
D3-2 WKYC-WX
D5-1 WEWS-DT
D8-1 WJW-DT

D17-1 WDLI-D1
D17-2 WDLI-D2
D17-3 WDLI-D3
D17-4 WDLI-D4 }religion

D19-1 WOIO-DT
D43-1 WUAB-TV
D43-2 TUBE (Music - non-comercial)
D50-1 WEAO-D1
D50-2 WEAO-D2
D61-1 WQHS-DT

I cant believe you pick up all those stations with an indoor antenna. I live in Medina too and I never picked those up with an indoor antenna.

I am in Liverpool and if I don't use the little amp that came with it it doesn't pick up anyting. I didn't expect all that either, imagine my supprise, well worth the $50 :o

Well I just got my new TV last night (Sony 34XBR960) and hooked it up to my antnenna mounted on the roof (2-story house). The TV has the built in ATSC tuner and works good. I received WOIO-DT in HD, but nothing else. I live in Akron, by the way, near Firestone Park.

If you can move that thing around, you should be able to get almost everyone else in the market. I'm in the old Northampton Township, and with an indoor, non-amplified antenna pointing out a 2nd story window, I get every full-power station in the Cleveland market aside from WKYC-DT with little problem.

I'm guessing the antenna was put up for analog, and not particularly calibrated or aimed. You should be pointing roughly at Parma, the local "antenna farm" area where all the Cleveland stations are located. The only other stations are those like WEAO-DT 50 Akron, which you should be able to get over there no matter where the antenna is pointed (their stick is in Copley, just north of Rolling Acres Mall, not that far from you).

WKYC-DT is a "problem child" because it is a low-VHF station, and subject to much more electrical interference. Even so, you should have a decent shot at it from Firestone Park, assuming you don't have large buildings or trees or something like that in the way between you and Parma.

The other thing I just thought of - WOIO-DT is a VHF station as well (high VHF on 10, WKYC-DT is on 2). If you don't have a UHF antenna up there, this may be why you have difficulty picking up the other stations in the market...which are all (digitally) on UHF.

WEWS-DT - 15
WJW-DT - 31
WUAB-DT - 28
etc.

Last night I was getting WJW-HD during the Braves/Astros game - looked great! But then around 11:30 there was no signal. I was getting WKYC-HD during Jay and Conan (signal was about 58%). WEWS and WOIO signals were around 95%.
I'm pretty sure my antenna is getting all frequencies (VHF & UHF). I may just need to aim it better, like you said.
Do the Cleveland stations turn off their HD transmissions sometimes? I'm confused why WKYC was NOT there Wed. night, but was Thu. night.

Do the Cleveland stations turn off their HD transmissions sometimes? I'm confused why WKYC was NOT there Wed. night, but was Thu. night.

All of the Cleveland market stations currently doing DT are 24/7 with their HD feed.

Unless, of course, the feed drops out due to technical problems - yes, I mean WEWS-DT! :D They've had the most consistent problems of anyone in recent weeks, and for a while not long ago (look up this thread), they were off for a few days at a time.

WKYC may be a different situation. As a low-VHF station, it is somewhat more susceptible to not only electrical interference/noise, but also it's at the end of the band where out-of-town stations from hundreds of miles away can show up by what's called "tropoducting". This usually happens on warm summer afternoons, so that may not be what happened on Thursday night.

As a rule, channel 2 (where WKYC-DT is) is the worst place to be on the dial for both analog and digital TV, but it's more of a problem with the more precise needs of DTV. At some point, whenever analog TV goes away, WKYC will likely be on some other channel than 2, because the FCC is encouraging stations to land outside of the low-VHF channel range (2-6).

Hookbill,
are u receiving "Ghost Whisperer" in DD 5.1 thru cable? I thought CBS Cleveland was sending DD but the symbol isn't showing up in the guide. Just curious, thx.
Tom

Hookbill,
are u receiving "Ghost Whisperer" in DD 5.1 thru cable? I thought CBS Cleveland was sending DD but the symbol isn't showing up in the guide. Just curious, thx.
Tom

I believe NBC and Fox are the only two Cleveland stations passing DD.

Wow. I watched a few minutes of Smackdown last night on WUAB. Thank you channel 43 for multicasting and bringing me another channel that is absolutely unwatchable.

Wow. I watched a few minutes of Smackdown last night on WUAB. Thank you channel 43 for multicasting and bringing me another channel that is absolutely unwatchable.

If there's any motion at ALL on 43-2, it's darn close to a low-bitrate Internet webcast.

I haven't had the "fortune" (!) of seeing its effect on 43-1 during an HD show.

Look at the bright side...at least they don't run this crap on WOIO, which has a lot more HD.

All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.

All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.

We've talked about this stretching in the past but I can't remember why it's a bad thing. If an SD show is upconverted on the high def channel, it seems better to stretch the show filling up the 16x9 shape. I'd rather watch a little stretching on the edges opposed to black or gray bars on the left and right.

How do these upconverted SD shows appear on your set Phoenix? Are u able to manually stretch an HD show to hide the bars?

All stations except WJW are stretching non-HD programming now. Complete idiots running these stations.Add WEWS to the list - sort of. They can't make up their minds weather to stretch or not to stretch.

Example: 20/20 was in 4X3, but they turn on the stretch for the 11 PM news. When they switch the picture in and out of stretch (or form local to network) I can hear an audio glitch. Also I have seen on numerous occasions where they forgot to switch to local on the HD feed at 11 PM and I get to see a few seconds of the ABC west coast feed (i.e. the start of the 8 PM program at 11 PM our time).

If you think that is bad WOIO blew the start of a 4:15 Browns game on the HD feed. I had to switch to the analog (a complete accounting of that fiasco has been posted many pages ago in this thread).

It's obvious that the local stations are trying to run both the analog and digital feeds using the same master control technician. The digital feeds suffer due to the lack of attention.

Add WEWS to the list - sort of. They can't make up their minds weather to stretch or not to stretch.

And when WEWS-DT does stretch, at times it will not stretch all the way. It goes to about 15x9 instead of 16x9. This screws things up for those with 4x3 sets who are trying to "stretch down" to 4x3...since the original isn't full 16x9, it makes the "stretched down" picture look too slim.

If you think that is bad WOIO blew the start of a 4:15 Browns game on the HD feed. I had to switch to the analog (a complete accounting of that fiasco has been posted many pages ago in this thread).

WOIO's only partially responsible for that. The other part is CBS. Since they can only have two HD paths running at the same time (the paths that are normally used by their prime time Eastern and Pacific feeds), the late game can't start in HD until whichever game it's sharing the path with is done.

WOIO's fault was that they clumsily stuck with the 1 PM HD game, and did not go to upconverted SD for the start of the HD Browns game. Yes, I said that right. They could have had the uninterrupted Browns start that way, then switched to HD whenever the 1 PM shared feed game ended and the HD feed started for the Browns.

I suspect this takes too much thought and manpower/energy, so they went the easy way. And this way, they'd probably have forgotten to switch into HD when the feed was available...but that's what I would have done.

Hookbill mentioned this up thread a bit:

It does appear that Adelphia is putting up its simulcast channels for the analog channels (below 100) that aren't already being fed digitally.

However, my cable box won't tune to these 800-series channels, aside from the existing 803/804/805/806, etc. It says I'm not authorized (!).

The sub-100 channels that aren't already being sent digitally are still analog on their original positions.

I suspect that a similar switch is coming, though, to the one that moved analog 3/5/8/19/43 up to the 800's and put a digital 3/5/8/19/43 on the lower positions, on cable boxes.

Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?

How do these upconverted SD shows appear on your set Phoenix? Are u able to manually stretch an HD show to hide the bars?

I always stretch the programming, but my SA3250 does a better job than most of the station's upconverters do. The only station that strecthes properly is WKYC because the picture is still pretty good. The other stations stretching makes the image quality very poor, especially WUAB.

Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?


I was watching that last night but I didn't notice any clicking sound, but then I had a few beers :cool:

are there any games in HD - OTA today?

yes. :D :D :D

Watching Browns/Bears WJW OTA and the 50 yard cam doesn't look too good. Almost looks like that cam is SD not HD. I can see compression artifacts around the players outlines, as if I was watching this game on DirecTV. Also see some "dancing grass" on the 50 yard cam.

I'm in the Chicago area and was checking to see if it was just here. This looks like EDTV.

what is up with the fox broadcast today as of 1:52 no hd

what is up with the fox broadcast today as of 1:52 no hd

Due to a "Solar Transit Outage" Fox's satellite feed is not HD for a while. Hopefully HD will return in 20 minutes or so.

Certain times of the year the sun interferes with the satellite to ground transmission, and that's what's going on right now.

Due to a "Solar Transit Outage" Fox's satellite feed is not HD for a while. Hopefully HD will return in 20 minutes or so.

Certain times of the year the sun interferes with the satellite to ground transmission, and that's what's going on right now.

The upshot is that due to the way the sun lines up at this time of year, for a few days at this hour, roughly, the sun's energy "overwhelms" the energy coming from the satellite. And since the sun doesn't carry FOX...well... ;)

Radio stations which carry satellite delivered programming at around this time, also have to deal with it. The time is not exactly the same, because it's a different time for different satellites and different parts of the country.

To get around it, stations have to either use a different satellite (which isn't in the same alignment at the same time, so it won't be affected at the same time), or a terrestrial feed. I think FOX has a fiber optic feed that they use.

Is anybody watching SNL in HD tonight? My audio receiver clicks when going from DD5.1 during SNL and back to 2.0 during commercial. Annoying. I don't notice this during Leno. Is this the first time WKYC is passing DD5.1?

Are any Cleveland HD stations sending DD 5.1 for sure? I checked the new show E-Ring on NBC and it was stereo and just checked the O.C. on Fox from 9/29 and it's not 5.1 either.

FOX 8's Browns/Bears game is back in HD after the sun transit outage and halftime.

I'm glad I found this forum, I just bought my HDTV Sony 60" this week and I wondered why it was flipping back & forth from HD to standard broadcast.

I noticed this week the best looking shows are Leno & Letterman (3 NBC & 19 WOIO). I've seen some HDTV on 5 WEWS and wasn't impressed but I'm glad to see this thread explaining all of this.

HD on Fox is Back!

I noticed this week the best looking shows are Leno & Letterman (3 NBC & 19 WOIO). I've seen some HDTV on 5 WEWS and wasn't impressed but I'm glad to see this thread explaining all of this.

Welcome to the forum!

Check out Monday Night Football...that usually shows off ABC HD at its best.

The other factor here - NBC and CBS are 1080i and ABC is 720p. Your set may be native 1080i and look better that with that feed.

Are any Cleveland HD stations sending DD 5.1 for sure? I checked the new show E-Ring on NBC and it was stereo and just checked the O.C. on Fox from 9/29 and it's not 5.1 either.


NBC and FOX both broadcast primetime shows on 5.1.

You sure you have your settings right?

Watching Browns/Bears WJW OTA and the 50 yard cam doesn't look too good. Almost looks like that cam is SD not HD. I can see compression artifacts around the players outlines, as if I was watching this game on DirecTV. Also see some "dancing grass" on the 50 yard cam.

Interesting. Outside of the outage around half time the broadcast has looked outstanding to me.

And I am 1080i native.

NBC and FOX both broadcast primetime shows on 5.1.

You sure you have your settings right?

I'm going by the DD symbol that shows up in the info banner but it might not be accurate. The DD symbol lights up on HBO-HD and all the HD channels like HDNet, DiscoveryHD... but not the ota.

I haven't upgraded to surround yet(spent everything on video...) but will soon. Thx for verifying 5.1 for NBC and Fox.

We've talked about this stretching in the past but I can't remember why it's a bad thing. If an SD show is upconverted on the high def channel, it seems better to stretch the show filling up the 16x9 shape. I'd rather watch a little stretching on the edges opposed to black or gray bars on the left and right.


Tom,

For me, I can't stand the distraction of any form of stretching. When round things aren't round, I find the picture unwatchable. I much prefer the black bars.

The more the local station messes with the picture, the lower the picture quality.

All TV's give you at least one, if not more than one, stretching option. The options to unstretch are less common, and some, like the partial stretch that WEWS uses, cannot be corrected without cropping the picture top and bottom.

-Chris.

I'm going by the DD symbol that shows up in the info banner but it might not be accurate. The DD symbol lights up on HBO-HD and all the HD channels like HDNet, DiscoveryHD... but not the ota.

I haven't upgraded to surround yet(spent everything on video...) but will soon. Thx for verifying 5.1 for NBC and Fox.

My processor initially flashes "DD" for all over the air digital stations. Then it shows DD 3-2-1 for Fox and NBC HD programs. Standard definition digital shows on Fox and NBC and all programs on other digital ota stations flashes "DD 2-0-0 and then shows "pl II-c" (pro logic II-cinema) (i.e., my processor uses pro logic II on DD 2.0.0 to simulate DD 5.1. Bottom line: All the digital stations show DD; however only the HD programs on Fox and NBC are 5.1. The satellite HD programs are all DD; however, the older movies may be only DD 2.0.0. You find the same things with DVD's.

My processor initially flashes "DD" for all over the air digital stations. Then it shows DD 3-2-1 for Fox and NBC HD programs. Standard definition digital shows on Fox and NBC and all programs on other digital ota stations flashes "DD 2-0-0 and then shows "pl II-c" (pro logic II-cinema) (i.e., my processor uses pro logic II on DD 2.0.0 to simulate DD 5.1. Bottom line: All the digital stations show DD; however only the HD programs on Fox and NBC are 5.1. The satellite HD programs are all DD; however, the older movies may be only DD 2.0.0. You find the same things with DVD's.

Thx for that explanation. I'm not sure why the ota doesn't show up in 5.1, and the sat HD channels do...more investigation needed. I'm glad to hear at least NBC and Fox are 5.1... makes the audio upgrade more worthwhile.

Tom,

For me, I can't stand the distraction of any form of stretching. When round things aren't round, I find the picture unwatchable. I much prefer the black bars.

The more the local station messes with the picture, the lower the picture quality.

All TV's give you at least one, if not more than one, stretching option. The options to unstretch are less common, and some, like the partial stretch that WEWS uses, cannot be corrected without cropping the picture top and bottom.

-Chris.

If the picture quality is lower as a result of stretching, then I see your point. There's also the problem of uneven wear on crt and plasma tvs. Keeping contrast low can help but if you watch a lot of 4:3 on your 16:9 tv, the lines will start to show up very soon. Of course this would all be a moot point if everything was delivered in 16x9 HD but that won't be for awhile. ^_^

The only station that strecthes properly is WKYC because the picture is still pretty good. The other stations stretching makes the image quality very poor, especially WUAB.

WKYC fooled me last year with their stretch of "Scrubs". It didn't used to be broadcast in HD but was a good upconvert. I'm pretty sure it was full HD this year(no stretching).

There's also the problem of uneven wear on crt and plasma tvs. Keeping contrast low can help but if you watch a lot of 4:3 on your 16:9 tv, the lines will start to show up very soon. Of course this would all be a moot point if everything was delivered in 16x9 HD but that won't be for awhile. ^_^

This is a good point. My question would be: Should we expect the broadcasters to protect us from our own stupidity, or are we responsible for the care of our own TV?

For me, this is one of the reasons I bought a DLP TV.

Most people don't understand a fraction of what their electronics can do. That is certainly true for me and my cell phone. Perhaps the broadcasters, knowing that most people have no clue as to what the "aspect" button does, feel they are at a competitive disadvantage (or perhaps even legally liable for damage) if they don't fill the screen.

My guess is that they just get tired of clueless callers asking why all their shows don't fill the screen of their brand new HDTV. Once they stretch the screen the number of calls probably drops down to nothing. I think the number of people who would prefer to see a non-distorted picture with black bars on the side is very small. Unfortunately I happen to be one of them. I've gotten so now that if it is a SD program, I just watch the analog channel on my old 32" TV.

full stretch is cool with me since i can readjust it, but channel 5's stretch is so god awful bad. clearly, people in TV suck.

I like what fox8 often does, instead of stretching, they fill in the black bars with "FOX 8" banners :cool: ...then its up to you after that. simple soulution works perfect

FOX 8 only uses those banners when they're running SD video on their HD-in-studio newscasts. When they run non-HD programming otherwise, it's not stretched and there are no "FOX 8" bars, which is fine with me.

I complained to WEWS about the funky stretch, but heard nothing back from them. I think they think it lessens the stretch enough to look less "flat" on 16x9 screens. But I'd rather make that choice myself.

I live in Tuscarawas County. I currently have Adelphia. They carry all of the Cleveland stations, plus Wheeling/Steubenville and WCMH Columbus. Our DMA is Cleveland.

WKYC was telling me that WTOV 9 out of Steubenville would be choice for Weather Plus. Honestly, I believe that, because we are closer to that market area. Our county is well beyond the Grade B signals. Any thoughts? WTOV told me that WX Plus wouldn't cross market lines.
WHO is wrong or right?

I live in Tuscarawas County. I currently have Adelphia. They carry all of the Cleveland stations, plus Wheeling/Steubenville and WCMH Columbus. Our DMA is Cleveland.

WKYC was telling me that WTOV 9 out of Steubenville would be choice for Weather Plus. Honestly, I believe that, because we are closer to that market area. Our county is well beyond the Grade B signals. Any thoughts? WTOV told me that WX Plus wouldn't cross market lines.
WHO is wrong or right?
I watch WKYC's Weather Plus all the time. I see 5 day forcasts for such exotic palces as Detroit, Columbus and Cincinnatti. Tuscarawas County is definitly within that paramater (and also within the radar's range).

Signal grade has nothing to do with what market you are in. If Adeplhia is giving you WKYC-DT they could also give you Weather Plus. OTOH if all they carry is the SD/analog channel 3 then you are out of luck (on you TV anyway) You can always see WKYC's version of Westher Plus on your PC if you have broadband.
http://wkyc.com/weather/plus/
BTW I also have seen Weather Plus out of Pittsburgh's WPXI OTA. They do not have it streaming on the web the way WKYC does.

thanks for the info.. Yes, Adelphia does carry WKYC HD on Ch703, and WEWS HD on Ch705. Our Adelphia area picks up everything via OTA. Nothing is direct in this area expect the local access channel. WTOV covers this area somewhat better than the Cleveland stations. When Time Warner moves into this area next year. We have the same thing as Canton. Expect we have the Steubenvillle stations and WCMH Columbus.... WKYC also said it's Adelphia's decision to carry either Cleveland or Steubenville. BUT, you would think that they would carry WKYC because they carry 3.1.

Wow! WKYC-DT is hard to pick up for many here in Cuyahoga County yet Adelphia can get it way down there. I bet they have a relay up north where the signal is picked up.

I met someone many years ago who lived down there. He told me that the antennas that pick-up the Cleveland stations for the Dover cable system were located in Richfield! They used a terrestrial microwave link (this was in the late '70's). I'm willing to bet they use a similar set-up today, with fiber optic lines replacing the microwave.

On cable WKYC has signal break ups from time to time. Yes, you are right about the signal issue with that. With us being close to Pittsburgh. When I lived in Columbiana County TWCable carried KDKA and the picture was terrblie because WKYC DT 2. TWCable told me they pick it up in Salem OH, and different locations in Western PA.

I seen the cable headend over in Sugarcreek OH. About a 13 miles west of Dover/New Philly. It is large and has many antennas on the side of the tower. The station that was the worse picture down here is WTRF 7 Wheeling. You would think that would have good signal but it does it. Adelphia HD only carries WKYC, WEWS, and HBO SHOWTIME, and the movie nets. Sometime this month they are going add WNEO HD on CH 714. As for the direct links. Most the OTA stations on cable tend to break up all the time. So that kinda tells me that nothing is direct or microwaved down here. Even WCMH Columbus breaks up a lot. So that means everything is OTA antennas.For example WJW will get large white lines in it and goes off. WEWS has had some problems here in this area. With dark picture and lines and grainy picture.

Does anyone have any idea when WEWS and WOIO will be broadcasting in DD 5.1 sound? We are missing out on some great sporting events sounds. Fox's baseball gae sounds so real like.
Thanks

I must have missed this, and don't know how long they've been doing it...

But the live shots from FOX 8's "SkyFOX" helicopter are now 16x9. I'm assuming (and it looks like) they're using an SD camera up there, but in 16x9...when they first started doing the HD newscasts, it was 4x3 with the "FOX 8" bars on each side.

Of course, they've been using SD 16x9 cameras for live shots from the field since the HD casts started.

JDSWIMM: I wonder if the SD locals from Dish Network or DirecTV look better than what your cable system offers? The only drawback is you would be stuck with only the Cleveland stations unless they initiate "significantly viewed status for stations like WCMH (I don't believe either carry Wheeling/Steubenville yet).

These white lines you are talking about, is that on the SD or HD version of the channels?

Does anyone have any idea when WEWS and WOIO will be broadcasting in DD 5.1 sound? We are missing out on some great sporting events sounds. Fox's baseball gae sounds so real like.
Thanks

You can look forward to that happening on the 12th of Never.

Those two stations do not have very high priority on their sound advancements.

I'd like to just put in for my systems own Pro Logic II. It distributes the sound very well, even without 5.1.

JDSWIMM: I wonder if the SD locals from Dish Network or DirecTV look better than what your cable system offers? The only drawback is you would be stuck with only the Cleveland stations unless they initiate "significantly viewed status for stations like WCMH (I don't believe either carry Wheeling/Steubenville yet).

I'd do a search, but I'd almost bet my lunch money that neither D* nor E* has LIL service for that market.

Michael P 2341: It only happens on the SD channels, on the analog cable. This only happens from time to time, cable. Dish or Direct does not carry Wheeling/Steubenville market yet. I heard maybe by end of year or first part 2006, for that market. All Cleveland and Wheeling/Steubenville stations are significantly viewed in the county. WCMH is only non significantly viewed station in this county. Both Direct and Dish have started to add significantly viewed stations in the Baltmore Market. So that might have with the Cleveland stations. Lets hope soon... Also sometimes the picture on WTRF 7 here looks like a digital look to it. Then it clears up..

Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.

As long as we're on it, any news regarding WBNX-DT?

There was a message back awhile that indicated that WVIZ was delayed. I don't remember the timeframe, but I'm sure the person who posted will come along.


Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.
?

Did anybody else loose WOIO-DT yesterday? They must have changed their PSIP data becuase I was getting a solid 118 - 120 signal strength but no picture and sound. A delete & rescan fixed the problem. This is on an Echostar DVR 921.

Did anybody else loose WOIO-DT yesterday? They must have changed their PSIP data becuase I was getting a solid 118 - 120 signal strength but no picture and sound. A delete & rescan fixed the problem. This is on an Echostar DVR 921.

I'm having no problem with WOIO-DT right now, OTA via my USDigital receiver.

I also haven't rescanned it since well before yesterday, so I'm not sure it was a widespread PSIP issue. Perhaps something they did threw your E* receiver for a loop...

I'm having no problem with WOIO-DT right now, OTA via my USDigital receiver.

I also haven't rescanned it since well before yesterday, so I'm not sure it was a widespread PSIP issue. Perhaps something they did threw your E* receiver for a loop...
WOIO-DT has been throwing loops at my 921 since I bought it. At first there were pink/green stripes in the picture. After that cleared up there is a chronic "chroma pulsation", especially strong when there is a lot of red content in the picture. These artifacts disappear on recordings of WOIO, so when it get too annoying to watch, I delay the broadcast by 3 seconds.

Any other 921 victims, I mean owners out there? :D

WOIO-DT has been throwing loops at my 921 since I bought it. At first there were pink/green stripes in the picture. After that cleared up there is a chronic "chroma pulsation", especially strong when there is a lot of red content in the picture. These artifacts disappear on recordings of WOIO, so when it get too annoying to watch, I delay the broadcast by 3 seconds.

Hmm. If it is fine in the recording, it's DEFINITELY in the receiver, as it's able to record and display without a problem...

Anyway, unless they did something to the PSIP that my receiver didn't care about, I'm guessing they didn't. I haven't had to rescan any of the channels for a while.

Any news regarding the antenna problems with WVIZ-DT? Their web sites states they hoped to get their antenna in its permanent position in spring/summer 2005.

As long as we're on it, any news regarding WBNX-DT?

I've talked to Gary the Director of Engineering over at WVIZ and he said they were not able to get the tower issues resolved. Their next timeframe for launching the full power transmitter is in early 2006.

As for WBNX, the last time I spoke to the station manager (late spring-early summer), they still did not know when they are going to be broadcasting in digital. They have all the equipment in place, even for HD, but they are still waiting on the FCC to issue a construction permit. My guess is we won't be seeing WBNX going digital until the FCC deadline closes in.

Hmm. If it is fine in the recording, it's DEFINITELY in the receiver, as it's able to record and display without a problem...

Anyway, unless they did something to the PSIP that my receiver didn't care about, I'm guessing they didn't. I haven't had to rescan any of the channels for a while.
If it's the receiver, why is the problem limited to just WOIO? Also I had a total of 4 different 921's due to hard drive failures, every one had problems with just WOIO.

I've talked to Gary the Director of Engineering over at WVIZ and he said they were not able to get the tower issues resolved. Their next timeframe for launching the full power transmitter is in early 2006.

I'm not sure we ever figured out what that means..."tower issues". Is it the previous problem with Infinity Radio? I was under the impression that was all solved, legally. I'd have to assume it means they are having engineering issues at the North Royalton site.

If it's the receiver, why is the problem limited to just WOIO? Also I had a total of 4 different 921's due to hard drive failures, every one had problems with just WOIO.

There must be something inherent in the 921's ATSC tuner that doesn't get along with WOIO's encoding. This might be worth taking up with WOIO...if they gave a crap.

I'm not sure we ever figured out what that means..."tower issues". Is it the previous problem with Infinity Radio? I was under the impression that was all solved, legally. I'd have to assume it means they are having engineering issues at the North Royalton site.

I'm guessing that it is still a legal issue with Infinity Radio.

There must be something inherent in the 921's ATSC tuner that doesn't get along with WOIO's encoding. This might be worth taking up with WOIO...if they gave a crap.

FWIW, I think it is possible a certain station can have certain problems with certain receivers. My SA8000HD gets audio dropouts only on live Fox Sports events with DD5.1 sound. It used to be pretty bad last year with the football, but not so much this year. I am noticing it a little bit on the MLB playoffs.

I don't get the audio dropouts watching the same games OTA on my Samsung SIR-T165.

I don't get the audio dropouts on Fox non-live material like "24" for instance, nor do I get the dropouts on DiscoveryHD which is DD5.1 all the time. It's a weird problem.

I'm convinced it's more of a crappy SA8000HD issue than a Fox issue. Besides, who would I complain to, and who would give a damn to do anything about it...

I'm guessing that it is still a legal issue with Infinity Radio.

That's why I can't figure it out, since we were told all of those issues were successfully negotiated. Gary Bluhm himself said that all that remained was to plan and construct the facility. (I can't remember where he said that...it was either here, or in an E-Mail to me that I shared here. He's been on this thread once or twice, but I can't remember if he addressed that here or not.) I can't see why things got unraveled.

Oh, well, as I said, I have WVIZ-DT on Adelphia, WEAO-DT OTA, and have no idea how much longer I'll live in the area, anyway. Heck, I could be gone by the time they get that thing up.

I'm convinced it's more of a crappy SA8000HD issue than a Fox issue. Besides, who would I complain to, and who would give a damn to do anything about it...

I'm with you on this one, BTW...I think it's the SA8000HD vs. Fox, and I'm also convinced the other problem is the OP's E* receiver. This all seems to be inexact science, and a few bits on the wrong place seems to affect different receivers in different ways.

For what it's worth, I've never heard Fox audio dropout on Adelphia 708 with the SA8000HD, but I'm only feeding it standard stereo (no 5.1 system at home). I also don't have any problems with any of the local OTA stations with my cheap USDigital box I bought at Wal-Mart a year or two back.

Oh, and for hookbill's benefit - I'm likely going to buy the new Fusion5HDTV USB box for my laptop. My laptop has a very high quality widescreen display, and the demos I've downloaded look fantastic. Since it's in front of my face anyway all the time, why not? :D

My laptop has a very high quality widescreen display, and the demos I've downloaded look fantastic. Since it's in front of my face anyway all the time, why not? :D

oooo, that makes me curious, what type display would that be? We're in the market for one of those w/s laptop models.

oooo, that makes me curious, what type display would that be? We're in the market for one of those w/s laptop models.

I'll tell ya, the Toshiba Quosimo (sp?) has a drop dead gorgeous widescreen display. The thing looks as bright and crisp as a plasma. But they're not cheap - $2000 - $3000 if I remember correctly. I saw it at Beachwood CompUSA.

With that said, I just bought a new Dell Inspiron 6000 with a 15.4 widescreen and it's very nice. Basic model can be had for under $1000.

Dell also has the Inspiron 9300 with 17" TrueLife display - I beleive this would be comparable to the Toshiba. They might have this at the Dell kiosk in Beachwood Place.

I'll tell ya, the Toshiba Quosimo (sp?) has a drop dead gorgeous widescreen display. The thing looks as bright and crisp as a plasma. But they're not cheap - $2000 - $3000 if I remember correctly. I saw it at Beachwood CompUSA.


Thx, that's what I needed, a few more examples to check out. I've seen some w/s HP's that looked nice but haven't seen the Tosh. I went to BestBuy the other day and they didn't have any w/s laptops on display - surprising.

Thx, that's what I needed, a few more examples to check out. I've seen some w/s HP's that looked nice but haven't seen the Tosh. I went to BestBuy the other day and they didn't have any w/s laptops on display - surprising.

I don't have the model drooled about above...it's more modest :) Just a Satellite Pro M45-S331 (I think). I don't know if they've moved on to the next series of models.

It has the "TrueBrite" screen and is 15.4", widescreen display. The demo clips from the Fusion website were great. I haven't bought the device yet, so I can't comment on the actual unit.

It's supposedly out this week or next...check out the threads here in the Home Theatre Computers section, just above the HDTV threads.

hm. Ok, I'm a bit new to HD so I'm still having a bit of a problem. If anyone knows any info, please msg me.

I am running a Fusion5 card in my HTPC, I had assumed that I would be able to pick up HD channels with this, though that is beginning to be more and more dubious.

I have Adelphia cable here in Cleveland which obviously broadcasts HD channels, just hooking up the cable to the card gains me nothing (HD-wise). I had been hoping to get the signal in from several of the upper run of channels (mainly the discovery channels, which offer HD broadcast) But the only thing which comes in under my HD settings, are the music channels. No video channels.

Am I doing something wrong or is it just not possible to get HD from Adelphia thru a HTPC?

hm. Ok, I'm a bit new to HD so I'm still having a bit of a problem. If anyone knows any info, please msg me.

I am running a Fusion5 card in my HTPC, I had assumed that I would be able to pick up HD channels with this, though that is beginning to be more and more dubious.

I have Adelphia cable here in Cleveland which obviously broadcasts HD channels, just hooking up the cable to the card gains me nothing (HD-wise). I had been hoping to get the signal in from several of the upper run of channels (mainly the discovery channels, which offer HD broadcast) But the only thing which comes in under my HD settings, are the music channels. No video channels.

Am I doing something wrong or is it just not possible to get HD from Adelphia thru a HTPC?
I haven't tried it, but it should work. The Fusion 5 card supports QAM256 decoding, which is exactly what Adelphia uses for its HD channels.

You should be able to get all of the local channels from Adelphia without difficulty using your Fusion 5 card. Other channels, however, are probably encrypted and the Fusion 5 card will not be able to access those. This would include all of the "HD Plus" channels - HDNet, InHD, ESPN, Discovery, etc. So don't expect those to work.

The QAM capability of the Fusion 5 cards are quite new, and there may still be some bugs to work out. Try asking about this in the HDPC forum - someone there will probably know a lot more about it.

I'm getting really frustrated with our local broadcasters. Why did I bother to buy an HD set when they won't even FLIP the DAMN SWITCH over to HD for their primetime shows?

Cold Case a week ago (but not this week), Without A Trace last Thursday, and Alias last Thursday, all came across in glorious Standard Definition over Cleveland's ABC and CBS HD channels.

The networks spend a lot of money on these shows. The viewers spent a lot of money acquiring these sets. The stations spent a lot of money on HD and digital broadcast equipment. So why do they waste all of it by forgetting to FLIP the DAMN SWITCH!?

I'm getting really frustrated with our local broadcasters. Why did I bother to buy an HD set when they won't even FLIP the DAMN SWITCH over to HD for their primetime shows?

Cold Case a week ago (but not this week), Without A Trace last Thursday, and Alias last Thursday, all came across in glorious Standard Definition over Cleveland's ABC and CBS HD channels.

The networks spend a lot of money on these shows. The viewers spent a lot of money acquiring these sets. The stations spent a lot of money on HD and digital broadcast equipment. So why do they waste all of it by forgetting to FLIP the DAMN SWITCH!?



WEWS was obviously having signal dropout problems on their HD network feed during ALIAS (this happens a lot on this station during bad weather, though there seemed to be no reason for it last Thursday) - they switched to the SD feed until it was fixed; after they switched back to HD, the end of Alias and Night Stalker seemed to be fine.

You're absoultely right about WOIO - either their automation is totatly screwed up or they have a MCO asleep at the switch - you can almost count on them fogetting to flip the switch for at least one segment a night (and sometimes entire shows). Last night, most of CSI Miami and the first half of King of Queens, for example. And what's weird is last night, they did flip WUAB over to HD at 8, but not WOIO!

They didn't have ANY HD on Sunday night for 2 or 3 weeks in a row - this could be due to football overruns and the fact that they can't locally delay the HD feed, but my understanding is that the CBS prime-time HD network should start after the 4PM National HD game ends, and WOIO's always run that game, so this doesn't really make sense.

And what's worse, is that their stretched upconvert is totally unwatchable - WKYC's, while making everyone look fat, at least looks clean. WEWS's half-stretch is somewhat tolerable. Fox8 is the only one that does it right.

The QAM capability of the Fusion 5 cards are quite new, and there may still be some bugs to work out. Try asking about this in the HDPC forum - someone there will probably know a lot more about it.

As mentioned, I'm considering getting the Fusion USB HDTV tuner, which also supports QAM. I believe folks have gotten it (pre-production) to work with unencrypted QAM channels.

But no card or tuner will pick up the encrypted QAM channels, which need to be unscrambled at the HD cable box. If you get QAM working, it'll likely be only the local OTA channels and maybe one or two others. Still worth it for me, though, if I get the Fusion tuner.

And what's worse, is that their stretched upconvert is totally unwatchable - WKYC's, while making everyone look fat, at least looks clean. WEWS's half-stretch is somewhat tolerable. Fox8 is the only one that does it right.

There's a reason for this - all of the stations except for WOIO actually have digital equipment, even in SD. WKYC opened its new "digital broadcast center" a couple or three years ago. WEWS did some upgrades fairly recently, as I recall. And WJW obviously has the equipment, as they broadcast local news in HD from the studio.

Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.

Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.

...maybe we could start up an HD collection fund... ^_^

I might pay a few bucks to watch that old equipment get thrown off the building... ;)

Meanwhile, WOIO is running off of old, awful analog tape machines and poor cameras. They won't look any better until they throw all that stuff off the top of the building at Reserve Square and get digital equipment.

But even their SD upconvert on network-originated material is very bad - poor resolution, grainy. and people seem fatter than they do with the stretches on the other stations (with the possible exception of WKYC). Furthermore, like WKYC, they insist on using the local-stretch-upconvert on SD network shows during prime-time when a pillarboxed-network-upconvert is available (which is a MUCH better quality upconvert, stretching issues aside). WEWS, on the other hand, uses the pillarbox-network-upconverted feed on SD shows when it is available (i.e., during prime time).

EDIT: I guess the thinking is that they don't want to be responsible for damaging people's plasma/RP sets with burn-in, so they play it safe by stretching everything.

WJW HD is not on the air via Adelphia Cable. OTA people, are you receiving a signal? This is at 6:30 am.

Must have been down temporarily. It was back up within 20 minutes.

Must have been down temporarily. It was back up within 20 minutes.

Must have missed it, as it's there now. :D

Did anyone else just lose ALL Adelphia service, including HSI, for about 15 minutes?

It's back, at least now...

And the HD channels had no sound.

So, I rebooted the box, and it came back with my "settop not being authorized for use". Wha?

EDIT: just noting that it finally "kicked in", and everything SEEMS to be working again, including sound on the HD channels. Arrgh, I hate Adelphia!

And the HD channels had no sound.

So, I rebooted the box, and it came back with my "settop not being authorized for use". Wha?

EDIT: just noting that it finally "kicked in", and everything SEEMS to be working again, including sound on the HD channels. Arrgh, I hate Adelphia!

FWIW, I've gotten that message before too. Usually I just do a second reboot and everything is OK.

Maybe they are getting the digital channels ready?

FWIW, I've gotten that message before too. Usually I just do a second reboot and everything is OK.

Maybe they are getting the digital channels ready?

That's actually what I thought, too. When the box first came back, it only tuned to an odd set of channels...2...7...9. (?) But it's OK now. (Oddly enough, the channels missing were the digital SD channels - 3, 4, 5, 6 and 8!)

Adelphia told me, when I called to cancel a service appointment tomorrow, that the appointment had already been cancelled automatically. They said there was an "area problem", and they fixed it, so they automatically cancelled any service appointments made because of the problem in question.

Adelphia told me, when I called to cancel a service appointment tomorrow, that the appointment had already been cancelled automatically. They said there was an "area problem", and they fixed it, so they automatically cancelled any service appointments made because of the problem in question.

I never want to take a chance at missing a shot at Adelphia, so here goes. YOU had to call THEM and THEY informed YOU that your appointment was already cancelled.

What if you had waited on the tech all day? I just wonder if anyone would have called?

Adelphia.....still batteling to be the worst in cable! :D

I never want to take a chance at missing a shot at Adelphia, so here goes. YOU had to call THEM and THEY informed YOU that your appointment was already cancelled.

Oh, when I called and set up the appointment - because, by the way, they told me they had no other calls about any problems in the area! - the customer service woman told me to call later if it started working again.

(This was after she asked me if I was near Port Clinton. Huh? They apparently had a problem in Port Clinton. I thought the daytime CSRs were in Cleveland, and presumably knew suburban Akron from Port Cllnton.)

At times like this, I don't know if I can hang in with Adelphia long enough to see them being taken over by TWC. Maybe I'll get one of those Canadian dishes...

FWIW, According to the FCC web site (Second Round Channel Elections), WKYC has selected Ch. 17 (with Ch 32 as alternate) for its post-transition digital channel.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101092867&formid=384&fac_num=73195

Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).

WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT will be changing formats in the next few days. HD programming will only be transmitted during prime time. During the day, 3 SD multicast channels will be presented.

I hope WVIZ-DT gets its full powered signal on the air soon and that they continue to transmit the full PBS HDTV schedule.

Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).

If they kept 32, the LPTVer (WRAP-LP, if I recall) would have to move. I heard they might go with 31 as well, but I don't know if that was the intent. It doesn't make much difference as far as WJW goes, if they're moving off 31 to 8.

The bad news in either case - we're stuck with WKYC-DT on 2 until analog gets turned off, which appears likely to be mid-2009 at this point.

Sorry to hear about the WNEO/WEAO changes, but I get WVIZ-DT off of Adelphia, so it doesn't really bug me.

WEAO-DT 50.1 is no longer running the PBS HD feed, at least during the day. Right now, it's an SD upconvert of WEAO analog...the same as 50.2 always has been.

I don't have sound out of my OTA box right now, so I didn't hear it, but it looks like they're putting up a "Kids" subchannel on 10/31. This may even be locally put together, since the turnkey PBS Kids service is no longer available to affiliates...it turned into the "Sprout" cable/satellite service.

FWIW, According to the FCC web site (Second Round Channel Elections), WKYC has selected Ch. 17 (with Ch 32 as alternate) for its post-transition digital channel.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101092867&formid=384&fac_num=73195

Ch 17 makes sense, because WDLI/Canton will go with 39 and WTOL/Toledo will go back to their analog channel 11, but isn't there a LPTV on Ch 32 in Cleveland? Maybe they mean 31 (which will be vacated by WJW).


Where can you find a listings of all the stations apps.

Where can you find a listings of all the stations apps.

Go to http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/

Click on "TV Query" - Enter station call letters or city-of-license/state - click "Submit Data". On the resulting list, you can click on either the TV or DT listing. Then bring up "Application List", located under the station technical parameters. The applications will be listed in reverse chronological order. Look for a file number starting with "BSRECT", meaning Second Round Election (all channel-election-related apps should end with "ECT"). Click on "Application" under "Details" to bring up the application.

Hope this helps.

@flatiron: The website you listed, if I wanted to look up WKBN in Youngstown to see when their digital signal will come online, how would I do that? Thanks.

@flatiron: The website you listed, if I wanted to look up WKBN in Youngstown to see when their digital signal will come online, how would I do that? Thanks.

The FCC site shows a Construction Permit issued for WKBN-DT 41 - so they have permission from the FCC to go live , but their digital signal is being held up by other issues - money issues or dispute with tower owner - I forget which. (this has been discussed on this thread and the Youngstown thread).

Hi everyone, I'm new here and went back a few pages, but honestly didn't want to read through all 100+ pages.

I have a 27 inch FS (unfortunately) Samsung HDTV I purchased a few years ago. I just now picked up a receiver (the Accurian) and will pick up an antenna in a few days. For right now I'm using an indoor antenna I found laying around.

Here is my question. I can only pick up 4 stations so far:
WEWS-DT - 5.1 (60-65 signal strength)
WJW-DT - 8.1 (58-65 signal strength)
WDLI-DT - 17.1, 17.2, 17.3 and 17.4 (70-80 signal strength)
WEAO-DT - 50.1 and 50.2 (70-80 signal strength)

My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin. Is that always going to be like that? I could stretch the image (my TV seems to do a great job at that) but I don't want to. I don't mind the bars and I don't like missing out on some of the picture. Is this problem occuring because of WEWS? And if so, is it always going to be there? It's kinda annoying.

I was also watching Poker Championship earlier, and it was telling me the picture was HDTV (highlighted) I hope that wasn't the case, becuase it didn't look any better than what I get on my Dish.

I picked up one more station early this morning: WJW-DT FOX. I'm watching it right now, and they have the pregame show on. Quick question, is this in HD? Because it looks REALLY nice, but titantv.com says that it's not being broadcast in HD. If it isn't, I'm impressed, and can't wait to see what the game looks like.

All of this with an indoor antenna (The FOX tower is about 40M away). I think this HDTV thing is worth it. :D

Edited to add WJW-DT

My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin. Is that always going to be like that? I could stretch the image (my TV seems to do a great job at that) but I don't want to. I don't mind the bars and I don't like missing out on some of the picture. Is this problem occuring because of WEWS? And if so, is it always going to be there? It's kinda annoying.

If you're talking about the little "video noise" at the top, that's pretty standard with OTA HDTV. Some boxes/tuners handle it better than others, and it's different on some channels than others.

The biggest problem with WEWS is that their stretch isn't "exact" (on upconverted SD) to 16x9. It's more like 15x9 or 14x9.

All of this with an indoor antenna (The FOX tower is about 40M away). I think this HDTV thing is worth it. :D

Curious...where are you, in the area? 40 miles puts you out a ways, but it'd be nice to know which end of the area you're on.

I'm in the Massillon area, 44646.

So is FOX Sunday right now being broadcasted in True HD, or is it just upconverted?

Thanks for the response.

yup, looks good too (720P)

helpful site for HD football:

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/

Looks good, but considering how small my TV is (27 inch FS) I'm pretty sure it would a lot better with a bigger screen, something like at least a 30 inch WS.

Oh well. Still looks good.

Nearly all FOX NFL games are in true HD. They do up to 6 games each Sunday, and if there's a 7th game, it might get upconverted in SD widescreen.

CBS, which has the AFC rights and shows the most Browns games, only does 3 HD games, and since the Browns are not, uhh, that great this year...there's no guarantee we'll see many more HD games for the Browns this year.

The Browns game is on FOX 8 today because the network follows the road team. So since the Lions are an NFC team on the road, FOX carries the game. And that's why the Browns are always carried on CBS on the road (except for any ESPN or ABC games).

Just curious, how do you know what signal is being broadcast and if my HD is displaying the right resolution (1080i instead of 480p). Like I said, my tv is a little old, but not terribly old:
http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXN2771HFX%252fXAA

Unfortunately, I think I purchased it right as HDMI/DVI started to come on to the scene. Oh well, what did I know?

WEAO-DT/WNEO-DT will be changing formats in the next few days. HD programming will only be transmitted during prime time. During the day, 3 SD multicast channels will be presented.


There doesn't seem to be any PBS-HD during prime-time either.

This really sucks for those of us too far out to get WVIZ's flea-powered transmitter on Brookpark Rd. Even though a lot of stuff was endlessly repeated, I enjoyed many of the programs on the PBS-HD channel.

I wonder how many more months (years?) before WVIZ goes full-power from N. Royalton?

Unfortunately, I think I purchased it right as HDMI/DVI started to come on to the scene. Oh well, what did I know?

I wouldn't worry too much about it...from the link, it looks like it does up to 1080i. If your tuner is outputting 1080i to the TV, it upconverts everything else (720p, 480i SD, etc.) to 1080i. I'm assuming you're feeding the TV with a component input, if you don't have DVI/HDMI. That does HD with no problem.

The various stations and networks have different resolutions for HD:

NBC (WKYC): 1080i
ABC (WEWS): 720p
CBS (WOIO): 1080i
FOX (WJW): 720p
UPN (WUAB): 1080i
WB, I don't know which they use, but WBNX here isn't even on the air digitally (HD or SD), so for Northeast Ohio it's "0". :D

The cable/satellite networks also vary between 720p and 1080i.

Again, it makes little difference, as HD tuners/etc. convert automatically between them, and scale them to whatever output's going to your monitor. So, with your 1080i set, you can watch FOX or ABC at 720p, and not even realize it.

Posted by someone using the screen name PBS4549 here on AVS Forum, in the Youngstown thread, who seems to know what they're talking about:


You are correct. WNEO-DT and WEAO-DT (45 and 50) have temporarily discontinued our HD service. This is a technical and legal issue. When we have the technical problems resolved (aiming for November 5) we'll return with three channels from midnight until 7pm, and a HD and SD channel from 7pm until midnight. Channel 1 will be our HD service. Channel 2 will remain as our digital rebroadcast of our analog service. Channel 3 will be our Information & Education service (INFOTV), blending CPB/Annenberg programs with rebroadcasts of PBS prime-time shows and school age kids shows. Channel 4 will be The Ohio Channel, which provides live coverage of the Ohio House and Senate, committee hearings and government issues, along with public affairs programs produced by PBS stations around Ohio.
We're sorry that we've been forced to temporarily drop the HD channel. It will return as quickly as we can resolve our switcher issues.

There doesn't seem to be any PBS-HD during prime-time either.

This really sucks for those of us too far out to get WVIZ's flea-powered transmitter on Brookpark Rd. Even though a lot of stuff was endlessly repeated, I enjoyed many of the programs on the PBS-HD channel.

I wonder how many more months (years?) before WVIZ goes full-power from N. Royalton?This weekend for the first time I caught the same program being broadcast on WVIZ-DT as WVIZ-TV. This was at the same time that WEAO was not carrying PBS HD. This led me to belileve the PBS HD network is no longer on or at least no longer a 24/7 operation.

My question pertains to WEWS. I was watching it tonight in 16x9 and their was a litle bit of the counter visable at the top of the screen where the video ends and the bars begin. I see that too, but no always. You see those "dots and dashes" whenever the local station is broadcasting a SD feed stretched into 16x9. When a true HD feed from a network is broadast the top of the picture is a clean, straight line. Sometimes WEWS will switch from true HD into stretch at the end of the 10 PM program, since they always broadcast the 11 PM news in stretch. I always readjust any 16x9 picture into 4x3 whenever I see the "dots and dashes" (I'm watching digital OTA on a 27" Sony analog set via S-video). I will watch a true 16x9 broadcast in letterbox, since there is no distortion of the images, but when the broadcasters use the stretch mode it makes everyone look fat, I have to vertically stretch the image back to 4x3 to get a visually appealing image on my screen.

This weekend for the first time I caught the same program being broadcast on WVIZ-DT as WVIZ-TV. This was at the same time that WEAO was not carrying PBS HD. This led me to belileve the PBS HD network is no longer on or at least no longer a 24/7 operation.

I've read in other threads here that PBS HD is still 24/7, but they are running a lot of repeats. Something about rights issues with programming? Maybe the folks holding the rights to the stuff getting repeated on PBS HD are asking for more money.

Anyway, whatever it is, the cost of PBS HD has apparently gone up a lot, and the content repeats a lot more, so many stations are bailing out.

I know I've seen that "Mustard" children's show a lot on PBS HD...it seems to be on every time I tune in. :D

According to a posting in the Youngstown thread by Mr. Don Freeman, Director of Programming and Operations for WNEO/WEAO, starting (he hopes) around November 5, there will be PBS-HD on 50.1 and WEAO-SD (analog mirror) on 50.2 (as before) from 7PM to midnight, and from midnight to 7PM, there will be 3 SD multicast channels only (WEAO-SD, INFOTV (Information & Education Service) Channel, and The Ohio Channel).

This link explains some of the issues with PBS-HD: http://www.current.org/dtv/dtv0517hdtv.shtml

While I am not thrilled with these changes, at least we will have PBS-HD for 5 hours/day, and the linked article states that there should be fewer repeats.

According to a posting in the Youngstown thread by Mr. Don Freeman, Director of Programming and Operations for WNEO/WEAO...(snip)

Do folks just skip my posts here? :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6411413&&#post6411413

Anyway, at the time I read the message, I didn't know it was Mr. Freeman posting...

I'm seeing more "commercials" on WVIZ then ever before. It's getting to the point where all they have to do is make a "funding provided by..." tag and then run the same ads that are run on commercial TV. If you tune in after the tag you may think you are watching a commercial station.

I'm not complaining about the ads. It just appears to me that the distinction between comercial and non-commercial TV is fading.

This is kinda OT, but can someone tell me why tax dollars are spent on public broadcasting? Does it really benefit anyone anymore or provide a service thats unique?

Public funding for public broadcasting depends on the current make-up in congress. The more liberals in office the more $$$ go to PBS.

I have a technical question about this forum. Whenever I post a message the page number jumps back 62 pages. For example as I type this the current page is 185, yet after I hit post quick reply I'm on page 123.

Here is "old" page 123: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&page=123&pp=20

Here is "new" page 123:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6417700#post6417700

Are old posts being deleted, or are more posts per page being displayed?

Just curious.

Public funding for public broadcasting depends on the current make-up in congress. The more liberals in office the more $$$ go to PBS.

Well lets not screw this thread up by getting political.



But does anyone see a purpose to PBS right now? If we shut it down today, would there be any dissapointment by tv viewers. The only thing I can see PBS being good for is for creating jobs.

i lost my subscription

Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?

I just got my USB HDTV box today and have been playing with it, and have been able to pick up the various network affiliates, but not consistently. I think I have to play with it a bit more...

Oh, for hookbill, my official entry into the HDTV world...

A screen cap of FOX 8's 5 PM show...

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/fox8cleveland.jpg

And a screen cap of the World Series tonight...pre-game show...

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/worldseriespre.jpg

I'm seeing more "commercials" on WVIZ then ever before. It's getting to the point where all they have to do is make a "funding provided by..." tag and then run the same ads that are run on commercial TV. If you tune in after the tag you may think you are watching a commercial station.

I'm not complaining about the ads. It just appears to me that the distinction between comercial and non-commercial TV is fading.

I somewhat agree but the ads are atleast regulated. So no worries about anoying content and no need to worry about spilling my beer :mad: (again) as I search for the remote to hit the mute button.

This is kinda OT, but can someone tell me why tax dollars are spent on public broadcasting? Does it really benefit anyone anymore or provide a service thats unique?

I believe it does! No, the service does not seem as different as it used to be. but at the heart of PB is where uniqueness lies, Nowere else can i get comercial free educational programming. The only thing that comes close (for me anyways) is the Science Channel, and I am not spending 80+ dollars a month just for one station.

Well lets not screw this thread up by getting political.



But does anyone see a purpose to PBS right now? If we shut it down today, would there be any dissapointment by tv viewers. The only thing I can see PBS being good for is for creating jobs.
I would be dissapointed! what the hell kind of question is that :confused:

I would be dissapointed! what the hell kind of question is that :confused:
Seconded.
Plus I just now got a HDTV receiver, it would suck if I never got to experience some of PBS's programs in HD. I hear theirs are among the best.

Inundated, what model is that HD USB? And how does it perform?

I'm asking this in all seriousness. I can't get WVIZ, but I can pick up 49 (50) out of Akron. I haven't seen anything worth watching on it.

It just seems to me that the History channel, news networks, and other informational/educational channels cover.

Just a question, would you vote to get rid of PBS if your taxes could go down 5 bucks a month, which is 60 a year? I'd drop it.

In the interest in getting back on-topic:

There are approximately 75 million US households:
http://www.census.gov/prod/1/pop/p25-1129.pdf

PBS currently receives $387 million in federal funding (Article also includes left/right perspectives):
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/media/jan-june05/cpb_6-21.html

Using those numbers, PBS costs a little over $5 per year per household, although one would think that the merchandising revenue of all the children's characters alone could pay for the whole thing. Good stuff for adults and kids and I just turn off the political stuff that annoys me.

Now, back to reception issues. I can't get WVIZ 26.1 OTA, 50.1 is sporadic and unreliable, and it will be great when the real WVIZ tower goes live. How 'bout you?

Does anyone know what is going on with D* guide?

Inundated, what model is that HD USB? And how does it perform?

http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/HDTV5usb.aspx

It looks beautiful...as you can see from the screen shots above (I reduced them in size so they wouldn't take forever to load). It looks fantastic on my Toshiba "TrueBrite" widescreen laptop...and makes the downconverted HD I've been watching on my 32" analog set look sick.

That's the good news.

The tuner software is the buggiest piece of computer software I've seen in 15 years. I'm almost afraid to change channels, for fear it will dump...and the software/drivers seem to be more unstable as the signal goes below 80%. (So as you might guess, I'm having trouble with WKYC and WOIO, though WKYC has come in more often than it has on the other OTA tuner.) I'm not sure how the software is still this unstable over time, but it has. Check out the Fusion threads in Home Theater Computers here on AVSForum for more.

I'm still glad I bought the thing, though. I've worked around most of its problems, it hangs in there if you have a strong signal (well, except for that bug where it crashes when FOX and the local affiliates switch back and forth between DD2.0 and 5.1 sound) and I can only hope that A) the software will eventually become more stable or B) third-parties will step in with more stable software. A guy here on AVSForum is, as you read this, fixing his WatchHDTV program to work with the F5USB (with some help from me :D).

Oh, and definitely on topic for this forum - one of its more egregious bugs is that the software crashes 100% of the time when you tune in WDLI-DT (17.1-4/DT 39). Thankfully, I never watch that channel and can delete it from the channel list.

It also works with Adelphia QAM, though the current version has a bug where it will forget scanned in PSIPs from the local OTA channels, after you tune in the first one.

Told you the thing was buggy! If you don't have patience to work around it or wait, you might wanna wait it out.

I'm asking this in all seriousness. I can't get WVIZ, but I can pick up 49 (50) out of Akron. I haven't seen anything worth watching on it.

It just seems to me that the History channel, news networks, and other informational/educational channels cover


well I don't get the history channel, discovery or science channel. I would have to say that PBS inspired this type of programming. However just before this "legal issue" there was a great week long program on DNA and I was looking forward to watching all of the repeats. and I have only been in the HD viewing for a few weeks myself but it was well worth it for me :)

Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?

I just got my USB HDTV box today and have been playing with it, and have been able to pick up the various network affiliates, but not consistently. I think I have to play with it a bit more...

Oh, for hookbill, my official entry into the HDTV world...

A screen cap of FOX 8's 5 PM show...

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/fox8cleveland.jpg

And a screen cap of the World Series tonight...pre-game show...

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/worldseriespre.jpg


Screen caps look good. Congratulations on getting an HDTV. Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't been getting my emails about new entries on this link

Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.

Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either.

Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.

Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either.I could of sworn I heard him say last week that he is going to do it on the air Nov 3 or 4.

Attention, anyone who's played with Adelphia's QAM - is there a guide somewhere to the QAM channels in the clear for a tuner?


I haven't seen a guide, but I can tell you what I have found.

The local HD channels are on:

105-3 NBC
105-5 ABC
105-8 FOX
113-1 PBS
113-2 CBS

The analog locals are digitized and rebroadcast on the subchannels of channel 84.

I also receive the digital music channels: 80-(21-40) and 93-(21-45).

Channel 88-2 will tell you what's on PPV.

Other channels are hit or miss, depending on if Adelphia is having problems or running a promo. Currently something called LOGO is in the clear on 90-13. I will sometimes pick up in the middle of someone's PPV broadcast on a subchannel of 75 or 76.

Bottom line is that there is not really much there. I find the OTA broadcast has better picture quality, so I usually leave my tuner setup that way.

Off topic, but Bill still hasn't shaved his head and I've noticed they've stopped talking about it.

Frankly, I don't blame him. If I said it or not, I wouldn't shave my head either. I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?

I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?I think it had to do with them finishing so many games above .500 which they did. I think 5 or so.

I've been hearing that he intends to do it, but I'm confused. I thought the bet was he'd shave it IF the Indians made the playoffs. Well, they didn't make the playoffs, so why does he have to shave his head?

He said if the Indians finished over .500 he would shave his head. Not so many games, just over 500. They did that by plenty. :)

I could of sworn I heard him say last week that he is going to do it on the air Nov 3 or 4.

That would make sense. Sweep month, build ratings. :)

Bottom line is that there is not really much there. I find the OTA broadcast has better picture quality, so I usually leave my tuner setup that way.

Yeah, and I do that, too, upstairs...but downstairs I don't have the antenna shot out to Parma like I do upstairs. I have an indoor antenna, and probably am not going to bother putting up an outdoor antenna until I eventually move. I'll probably bring the indoor antenna down here and shoot it off the deck, and see if I can duplicate what I get upstairs.

The buggy software with this card means that QAM tuning is hit and miss. If you scan, you MAY pick up all the "in the clear" channels, and the locals may have PSIP (which, oddly enough, puts WJW-HD as "3-1" in the initial listing, and then retunes from there at least once to get to the QAM channel you list). Then, when you tune to WJW-HD or any of the PSIP-laden stations, the information saved disappears from the channel list, and you're only left with other stuff like you list (Music Choice audio, etc., which I have NO problem tuning in).

Again, the software is buggy, and they'll presumably fix that...QAM tuning with computer cards on Windows XP is apparently at a very early stage. Once I do GET the channel tuned in, it's stable and works well.

"LOGO", by the way, is formerly one of the MTV subchannels, but is now airing programs aimed at the gay/lesbian community. It's up in digital cable land somewhere, but I forget the box channel.

Screen caps look good. Congratulations on getting an HDTV. Sorry it took so long to respond but I haven't been getting my emails about new entries on this link

You'll be happy to know that it looks MUCH better than my downconverted 480i on the TV upstairs. :D (I have a tendency to "fill in" picture information in my head...so in my mind, the downconverted 480i/component video/analog set combo looked better than it actually did. ;) )

Breaking news - Wide Open West has added "The Tube" on channel 140. :rolleyes: The pixelated mess looks every bit as bad as the OTA feed.

Why do they even waste time adding this crap when they still don't have ESPN2 or TNT in HD ??? :mad:

FWIW, I say keep PBS. I'll gladly pay the $5. McNeil-Lehrer news hour, Washington Week in Review, Nova, Frontline, are all excellent. City Club and Feagler & Friends for local politics. I grew up on Sesame Street and Zoom. The garbage on Nickelodeon is not what I'd call "educational"

Having a couple of minutes before the show and after the show with "funded by..." is a far cry better than commercial TV interrupting every 5 minutes with the same Ford pickup truck commercial over and over and over again.

Breaking news - Wide Open West has added "The Tube" on channel 140. :rolleyes: The pixelated mess looks every bit as bad as the OTA feed.

Why do they even waste time adding this crap when they still don't have ESPN2 or TNT in HD ??? :mad:

You'll be thrilled to know that The Tube looks just as bad OTA with my new tuner. :D

I'm glad Adelphia has not added it, though I wouldn't mind if they added WKYC Weather Plus as far as SD subchannels go.

Here, here's "The Tube" at its worst. This is a direct digital snapshot by the same USB tuner that produced the snapshots above. Of course, this is the worst - with lots of moving action on the screen at compressed 480i - but here it is.

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/thetube.jpg

Speaking about Adelphia....I noticed that the scheduled programs for next week look very funny. This is probably due to the time change, but I would suggest that for those of you who have scheduled programs to be recorded keep your eyes open beginning SATURDAY. Yes, Saturday. For some reason my DVR wants to record Cops at 9:00 instead of the regular time of 8:00. Also several other shows for next week are highlighted on the regular schedule to be recorded that are either incorrect or not scheduled at all. If you add an hour on to all this it looks ok, but still keep an eye on things this week.

You'll be happy to know that it looks MUCH better than my downconverted 480i on the TV upstairs. :D (I have a tendency to "fill in" picture information in my head...so in my mind, the downconverted 480i/component video/analog set combo looked better than it actually did. ;) )


And why am I not surprised by that? :)

Enjoy, and now that you have an HDTV, welcome to the forum. :D :D

And why am I not surprised by that? :)

Enjoy, and now that you have an HDTV, welcome to the forum. :D :D

Thanks. :D

About the Adelphia schedule thing - I'm not seeing any incorrect times in the guide. (Note that the guide shows four episodes of "COPS" on Saturday on FOX 8, starting at 8 PM, so maybe this is what it's picking up. Can you say "no baseball"? :D)

If it was an hour off for some reason, maybe it's an internal clock thing related to the time change. But the guide shows everything on Saturday night at the proper time on this end, and I looked into Monday, and no hour-off problem there as well.

It's probably still best to check, knowing Adelphia.

The buggy software with this card means that QAM tuning is hit and miss. If you scan, you MAY pick up all the "in the clear" channels, and the locals may have PSIP (which, oddly enough, puts WJW-HD as "3-1" in the initial listing, and then retunes from there at least once to get to the QAM channel you list). Then, when you tune to WJW-HD or any of the PSIP-laden stations, the information saved disappears from the channel list, and you're only left with other stuff like you list (Music Choice audio, etc., which I have NO problem tuning in).


It's not just the card. I have never gotten PSIP information on my tuner via QAM.

Also, severe dropouts on one subchannel that you are not watching can cause interference on the one you are. (This doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to.)

Enjoy the bleeding edge.

Here, here's "The Tube" at its worst. This is a direct digital snapshot by the same USB tuner that produced the snapshots above. Of course, this is the worst - with lots of moving action on the screen at compressed 480i - but here it is.

http://members.aol.com/inundated99/images/thetube.jpg
The Tube wants your comments, why not send this screen shot to them :D

I can't believe that WUAB's engineers give so little bandwidth to the tube (well actually I CAN believe it - this is a Raycom station after all, famous for the 20 minute color bars from CBS after the late NFL game). It' s not like the few HD programs from UPN need the bulk of the bandwidth :rolleyes:

While you are at it send them a screen shot of other local subchannels like ch 3's Weather Plus or WEAO's "main feed" on 50-2. Even the 4 subchannels from WDLI-DT 17 look better than the Tube's (although WDLI's audio is bad).

I noticed the samething last night. WUAB 43.1 had Paid Programming, upconverted to HD and it looked surprisingly good. Then I switched to The Tube and was shocked. The pixelation was extremely bad. I hope they fix that in the future.

The Tube wants your comments, why not send this screen shot to them :D

I would, but look...you can't make out the E-Mail address! :D

(To be fair, my other screen shots were not all this bad...this was just one I caught at the worst pixellation.)

I'm not terribly concerned, personally, that The Tube looks bad. And perhaps if it means there's more bandwidth on 43-1 for UPN HD, that could be a better thing for those who watch that network's programs. But this is ridiculously low, and UPN HD is not really all that much, anyway.

WKYC-DT is 1080i, no? I haven't watched a lot of NBC HD, but I don't think WeatherPlus affects their HD PQ that much from what I've seen...

I've been playing with antenna placement of my indoor antenna since I got this new tuner...

Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.

I know it'll only be an SD Shop at Home channel, but I'm still curious :D

I've been playing with antenna placement of my indoor antenna since I got this new tuner...

Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.

I know it'll only be an SD Shop at Home channel, but I'm still curious :D
I haven't been able to lock on WOAC with my system either. There is something there, it just has too much dropout (peaks at 70 then drops to 3). Once I get my outdoor antenna up, I'm going to peak it southward towards Akron. I should be able to catch all the Cleveland stations off the backside (I'm only around 1 mile due south of the towers). Hopefully I'll be able to see WOAC then. I hope they will someday use a subchannel for something other than shopping or infomercials. That is a lot of good full-power bandwidth going to waste ;)

Is WOAC-DT (D47) up and running? My tuner's getting a 20-25% signal out of them, certainly not enough to decode, but enough to show up...which I've never gotten before.


They're in the process of upgrading from 1KW to 1000KW...
I was occasionally seeing them last week on low power
here in North Canton...
their transmitter is in Brimfield near Kent...

Ed / wd8kct / North Canton

I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.

But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.

First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.

I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.

But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.

You and me both! :D

And I've got the same one in my sights...

First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.

And that really stunk, because I actually know someone who had a minor (off-screen) involvement in that movie. :D

(Rant mode...ON!)

Is there something wrong with WEWS to begin with? This afternoon, I had the pleasure, uh, of watching the Ohio State/Minnesota game on that station. Of course, the game wasn't in HD (and I wasn't expecting it to be), but the SD upconvert STUNK. It looked like they were upconverting a ghost-laden analog signal from out of town! I'll tell you how bad it was...WOIO/WUAB's SD upconvert was better. (And 19/43's is the worst in the market. By the way, in "true HD", it looks embarrassing.)

The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top. It was "OHIO ST. " ("I think, because it kinda looks like OHIO ST.") vs. a mess of letters that could very well be MINN, or MISS, or MIWW, or WIMM, or whatever. I honestly did not know which team the Buckeyes were playing until someone mentioned their name on the broadcast.

This is bad enough on my old SD/downconverted to 480i set upstairs. On the new HD setup I have, it was downright TV criminal.

Oddly enough, there appears to be no problem with WEWS' SD upconvert of NewsChannel 5 at 11 tonight, with no "ghosting" on the graphics. Maybe there's an ABC network related problem? I should check the Programming boards...

(Rant mode OFF!)

They're in the process of upgrading from 1KW to 1000KW...
I was occasionally seeing them last week on low power
here in North Canton...
their transmitter is in Brimfield near Kent...


(re: WOAC-DT 47)

Yeah, I saw they have an STA out there, and I'm guessing I was picking that up with my amplified indoor antenna. The signal wasn't nearly powerful enough for 1000KW. When they do go to that, they'll likely blow my tuner out :D

But you're right, they're physically located, for us Akron types, away from the other stations. Parma is northwest of here, Copley (WEAO et al.) is west-southwest for me, and Brimfield is east-southeast for me. I should still get it well due to the close distance, even off the back end of the antenna.

BTW, from what I remember, they're either co-located or across Rt. 43 from WNIR/100.1's stick and WAOH-LP 29...the analog stick for 67 used to be up the hill from Belden Village Mall, but has probably moved since then.

Adelphia QAM report: I'm tiptoeing with the USB HDTV card's software, which can scan in the broadcast OTA "in the clear" channels on Adelphia, but forgets them after you find and tune into one of the broadcast channels.

And one scan will get me WKYC/WEWS/WJW, when the next scan may get me that, or WOIO/WVIZ instead. (I know they're paired up with each other in those two groupings.) I'm not sure whether to blame the software or Adelphia, or both.

If I see a station on the scan, and tune to it, I can get it. Then, all the other named channels disappear, and I'm only left with basically Music Choice audio channels.

One other oddity here, OTA (via antenna) wise - I found a space for one of my indoor amplified antennas that is getting me full signal...95-100% on all locals except for, you guessed it, WKYC-DT. It's on top of a chair in the very back corner of my second floor loft, aiming out the large windows. Makes sense, if you think of it.

I put it out there to get WOIO-DT for Sunday's Browns game, though I just realized that it's against the Houston Texans, which means it won't be in HD. Booo...

As I mentioned in a previous post, those of you with Adelphia DVR's who have scheduled recordings, please double check what your unit is going to record. I found today that EVERY recording I had was incorrect, probably due to the time change. I had to start by recording the latest show on the network and then you would see big changes in the scheduled recordings. For example, Desperate Housewives tonight MAY appear to be recording however you may notice that Gray's Anatomy is not. Once you schedule Gray's Anatomy you will see D.H. disappear and you will need to reschedule any other shows you have for that night on that network.

You also may see some shows highlighted red that you do not want recorded. These will disappear after you make your changes. Start with the latest show on each network first and work your way backwards. It's easier to do it that way, otherwise you'll keep getting kicked out of the list at you cancel.

Again, you will see these anomallys on your "guide", not on your scheduled recordings. On your scheduled recordings you will probably notice shows are off by an hour.

I know you're gonna hit me, but... :D

I only have one show that recorded after the morning, a FOX 8 newscast (10 PM), and it recorded fine, and none of my other scheduled recordings into the week seem off at all.

The time change seems not to have affected my SA8000 here.

I know you're gonna hit me, but... :D

I only have one show that recorded after the morning, a FOX 8 newscast (10 PM), and it recorded fine, and none of my other scheduled recordings into the week seem off at all.

The time change seems not to have affected my SA8000 here.

Strangely enough none of the daytime shows I record were affected! Court shows that I like are all fine. It was only primetime shows.

I'm seeing in the 8300 forum that other people had this problem as well. I warned them too and now they are posting like they are the first to see it! :confused:

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/commodore_64/Antenna.png

Is there anyway to know what power the stations broadcast? I can't figure out how I can have a perfect signal from WJW, but a stuttering mess from WEWS.

...wife and I were just discussing yesterday how many problems the time change causes.(say it together -"Fall back-Spring ahead)"...plays like a recording in my head. It might seem almost a sure thing the time change would mess up a dvr sooner or later, given its dependence on time. The HDTivo had no probs. this time. I'd vote to drop daylight saving time altogether.

The worst problem I've heard caused by the time change was when a security company called the police when they forgot to reset their clocks and thought an employee entering a store was a crook.

trivia question: can anyone name the state who doesn't use DST?

...wife and I were just discussing yesterday how many problems the time change causes.(say it together -"Fall back-Spring ahead)"...plays like a recording in my head. It might seem almost a sure thing the time change would mess up a dvr sooner or later, given its dependence on time. The HDTivo had no probs. this time. I'd vote to drop daylight saving time altogether.

The worst problem I've heard caused by the time change was when a security company called the police when they forgot to reset their clocks and thought an employee entering a store was a crook.

trivia question: can anyone name the state who doesn't use DST?

Arizona!

The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top.

I noticed the same thing. It looked like the kind of crap I get when I attach a cheap PC VGA to composite video converter to a TV. I could see the vertical banding throughout the picture. My assumption is that ABC had some sort of equipment failure and had to run to Radio Shack to buy the equivalent of a $29.00 RF Modulator to get the signal out of the stadium.

Arizona!

...we have a winner! Happy Halloween (^.^)

I just got an HDTV card for my computer. So I know have that in addition to the tv downstairs. It actually does a better job with reception on the same antenna than my set top box.

But expect me to be complaining more about the locals as I watch more HDTV now.

First channel to grind my gears: WEWS, you bastards forgot to flip the switch. Monsters Inc. is not in HD so far. Nice goin.
The reason Monsters INC. was in SD on WEWS was because WEWS delayed the broadcast by one hour due tothe "Upbeat" reunion special live from the R&R HOF.

Apparently WEWS does not have a way to record the HD feed from ABC for later rebroadcast, so they tape the SD feed and S T R E T C H it :p

What I can't understand about WEWS is they stretch the 11 PM news but leave 20/20 in 4X3. World News Tonight gets stretched but not a prime time news program.

And how abouot WJW's NFL coverage? A game that starts out in true HD ends up in SD 4X3. This is probably due to the fact that they have to play all the local commercials in SD 4X3, which means someone in MC has to manually switch back and forth. Halfway through a game they forget or just get lazy and leave it 4X3 for the rest of the game.

So let me get this straight.

WEWS has this high tech studio but they cant record in HD but my simple 150 dollar HDTV card can?

They suck.

So let me get this straight.

WEWS has this high tech studio but they cant record in HD but my simple 150 dollar HDTV card can?

They suck.

You are comparing apples to oranges. What we record on our PC cards is the highly compressed MPEG2 data stream. What they receive from ABC is an uncompressed full bandwidth datastream that would eat hard drives for lunch. Not so easy to do and I'm not aware of any local affiliates that have that capability.
Steve

anyone not getting sound on the OTA feed from 5.1?


..oops! Just came on!

anyone not getting sound on the OTA feed from 5.1?


..oops! Just came on!


Yeah, it was flaky the first couple minutes. I thought there was something wrong with my SA8000HD, but I guess it was a station/network issue (I'm on Wide Open West cable)

The MNF thing was network-wide...see the thread in HDTV Programming for more. Is WEWS doing 5.1 for this? I thought they didn't pass it... my tuner card software says it's 2.0.

WEWS' general "stretch rule" seems to be that they do not stretch prime time, but will stretch network programming (non-HD) outside of prime time.

As for WJW on Sunday, I was trying to work that out in a thread there as well. It appears that either the station or the network went to SD for the final minutes of the 1 PM "overflow game" (the one that aired after the scheduled GB/CIN game). They were back in HD by the time they joined the 4 PM game.

They are not passing the DD5.1 audio on the MNF game, I'm just getting stereo.

That brings up the question, does ABC do 5.1 audio now? I thought they had that Circle Surround crap that no (ordinary) receiver can properly decode.

They are not passing the DD5.1 audio on the MNF game, I'm just getting stereo.

That brings up the question, does ABC do 5.1 audio now? I thought they had that Circle Surround crap that no (ordinary) receiver can properly decode.

Over in the HDTV Programming section here, they're making a big deal about it being the first 5.1 game. Someone actually involved with the production at ABC posted the news about it.

After the initial glitches, most folks were reporting 5.1... but WEWS apparently can't pass it, yet. I was getting 2.0 indicators all night, too. Though, curiously enough, the "WatchHDTV" software, a third-party download I can use on my USB HDTV box, was having problems on and off with WEWS all night. In my configuration, I have to manually force decoders into that software, and I had a non-5.1 compatible decoder for audio...and it was locking up just like WJW does when FOX runs 5.1. So, maybe it was picking up ABC's 5.1, which WEWS wasn't processing.

(This is only applicable to that third-party program - the Fusion software out of the box will do 5.1 - and my own non-video hardware accelerated laptop. I just haven't figured out which of the decoders will do 5.1.)

Only Fox and NBC does 5.1 locally.

Good Morning~
My name is Tiffany and I am a Marketing Coordinator for Time Warner Cable, Northeast Ohio Division. I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems. Please feel free to PM me with any issues and I will do my best to address them. I am by no means a technical person, but I will be able to find the right person to resolve any issues.

Good Morning~
I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems.

...u must be a very brave individual facing this crowd :)

Welcome to the forum.

The aspect ratio WEWS transmitts is some wierd in between thing that I cannot correct even with 18 possible zoom combinations with my LG 3510A tuner. It almost covers the widescreen but zooming to normal makes everybody skinny during SD broadcasts. When they broadcast HD it's OK, and the correct flags are transmitted for 4 x 3 commercials.
I aso do not believe they are receiving uncompressed video. The bean counters just will not let them waste satellite bandwidth when the 24meg MPEG2 data stream looks the same as the uncompressed video to all consumers on their TV sets. Since I process HDTV video the typical on the street person cannot tell the diference between 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.0. period. Even side by side it is difficult.

JJK

You are comparing apples to oranges. What we record on our PC cards is the highly compressed MPEG2 data stream. What they receive from ABC is an uncompressed full bandwidth datastream that would eat hard drives for lunch. Not so easy to do and I'm not aware of any local affiliates that have that capability.
Steve

While none of the Cleveland stations can do this, it can't be that difficult, since a lot of stations nationwide have this capability - i.e., stations in the Mountain Time Zone and stations in Indiana where they don't observe daylight savings time and thus have to delay the network feed 1 hour for half the year. And WEWS recently has been about the worst about pre-empting network programming and bumping it (in SD of course) to later hours.

While none of the Cleveland stations can do this, it can't be that difficult, since a lot of stations nationwide have this capability - i.e., stations in the Mountain Time Zone and stations in Indiana where they don't observe daylight savings time and thus have to delay the network feed 1 hour for half the year. And WEWS recently has been about the worst about pre-empting network programming and bumping it (in SD of course) to later hours.

I didn't mean "Not easy" from a technical standpoint - more in the way of justifying the expenditure of the expensive equipment. They will have to acquire it eventually when the analog broadcasts cease. But, just like the 5.1 audio equipment, I'm sure they will put it off as long as they can.

I've been asked in a PM to comment on costs of recording HD media on our server for playout later. The first comment I can think of is what would we record? At this moment no program syndicator I'm aware of is distributing shows in HD. I think there's a better chance of getting HD commercials. It's one of the big reasons I haven't considered it here. I have a manual "SWITCH" to turn on the HD. I'd have to build something into my automation to recognize and HD content other than NBC network so it knows a HD program/commercial from one that needs upconverted. Also, it is expensive. My playout server would require another chassis with the playout cards and I'd have to expand my storage, probably double it. Cost would probably be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. NBC distributes via satellite at 45 MB. The output of our NBC receiver is 1.5GB serial HD digital. Bear in mind that we're taking 1.5 GIGA bits down to about 18 MEGA bits (if there isn't a second channel in the bitstream) and you wonder why it works as good as it does. The HD SDI stream at 1.5GB would be compressed onto the hard drives to something around 100MB. Even at that bitrate, it's a LOT of storage. HD is a MAJOR investment for us broadcasters. The legislators look like they've finally decided to force an end the transition in the next couple of years so it looks like we will have to step up to the plate on these issues.

Robert,
Thanks for posting. The reason for recording would be to replay an HD show later in HD(as opposed to SD as is currently done by local affiliates) because it was preempted by something else(local sporting event, etc).
Steve

WFMJ probably does not preempt network programming nearly as often as WEWS or WKYC does (the two Cleveland stations that IMNSHO are the worst offenders when it comes to prime-time network programming preemptions). Not only do they preempt too often, what they preempt network programming for makes no sense: Who wants to see old Matlock reruns insted of anything ABC is showing? WEWS has done this countless times (and in glorious stretch-o-vision too boot).

I'm glad I can pick up WFMJ and WKBN (WYTV is harder to pull in) where I live.

Good Morning~
My name is Tiffany and I am a Marketing Coordinator for Time Warner Cable, Northeast Ohio Division. I recently joined this forum to provide assistance for those that have questions about our HD service or are experiencing HD problems. Please feel free to PM me with any issues and I will do my best to address them. I am by no means a technical person, but I will be able to find the right person to resolve any issues.

Welcome, Tiffany!

Umm...one pressing question: WHEN ARE YOU GUYS TAKING OVER ADELPHIA? :D

That's all. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

;)

I've gotten the stutter issues to a minimum with WatchHDTV, but my ABC station still has bad problems. The signal (according to the Avermedia app) bounces from roughly 50% to 100% pretty much all the time :/ . I had stuttering on all channels except NBC until I tried the WatchHDTV app, now it is mostly limited to ABC.

There is a big ass tree about 60 feet in front of my antenna as the crow flies. I've got a 2 story house with a 10 foot pole for my antenna...I need another 10 feet to get over the tree. There is also a big ass water tower, but that is pretty much due north, while the stations I'm trying to tune are 317-321 Degrees, so I don't think that it is interfering.

Is it possible that different frequencies penetrate the tree better than others?

Here is the Antenna Web printout for me.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/commodore_64/Antenna.png

Is it possible that different frequencies penetrate the tree better than others?
You bet! VHF does much better than UHF when it comes to foliage. The VHF low band (2-6) has other interference issues, which leaves chs 7 - 13 as the best frequencies. unfortunately there are many more UHF channels available (even after the FCC and Congress chops off the top 19 channels after the transition is over). It probably the reason why WOIO took ch 10, unfortunately there are too many other (analog) ch 10's close by to cause problems.

I'm in Twinsburg and can pick up these stations:
3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 19.1, 43.1, 43.2, 50.1, 50.2, 61.1.
Once in a while I can get 13 and 11 from Toledo. This is with a fixed antenna
aimed at Cleveland. PBS is fairly weak while the others are solid. Its the biggest periodic log antenna that I can get from MCM Electronics Catalog. 43.2 (tube) is SD but the quality of their transmission is terrible---noisy, MPEG2 blocking, blurry, inferior sound etc.
That tower to the North "may be ' a large multipath problem. 24 miles should be a piece of cake unless you are down in a hole.

JJK