JJkizak - what antenna are you using? I am a Newark InOne employee and get the MCM employee discount (sister company). I would like to look into one of those as well. I'm heading to Dayton to make a pickup on Thursday (there was an employee clearance sale and I picked up 2 complete home theatre speaker setups - neither being the best there is, but good for the money - for under $120. These aren't the little bitty ones either. They are full size towers!.


Let me know. I'd like to get one too.


Tim

Got a question?

What is a dual tuner?

That 5th generation chip in my Fusion5USB tuner must be doing wonders in helping with multipath. I have found an indoor antenna position that can *consistently* get WKYC-DT with a solid lock.

Now, those who've followed this thread may remember that I did some contortion with my antenna in the past and thought I'd found positions that get WKYC-DT indoors, but later fell apart due to atmospheric conditions or whatever. But unlike that, this time, it's been solid for 48 straight hours. If you look at the signal indicator, it doesn't "bounce back and forth" like my other OTA tuner does on WKYC on the same antenna...it's steady, either low or high depending on where I put the antenna.

JJkizak - what antenna are you using? I am a Newark InOne employee and get the MCM employee discount (sister company). I would like to look into one of those as well. I'm heading to Dayton to make a pickup on Thursday (there was an employee clearance sale and I picked up 2 complete home theatre speaker setups - neither being the best there is, but good for the money - for under $120. These aren't the little bitty ones either. They are full size towers!.


Let me know. I'd like to get one too.


TimTim,
I just moved from Seven Hills across Broadview into Parma. When I was in 7hills I could not get a lock on WVIZ-DT. I move 2 miles west and now I get it. I'm about 100' higher than I was in 7hills plus I now have a window to the North. I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor for now.

Do you get WVIZ-DT where you are in 7hills?

Welcome, Tiffany!

Umm...one pressing question: WHEN ARE YOU GUYS TAKING OVER ADELPHIA? :D

That's all. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

;)


Yeah....What Inundated said Tiffany. We all dislike Adelphia and can't wait until your company takes over. So give us some good news. :)

Got a question?

What is a dual tuner?

Dual tuner is a receiver that is capable of receving two signals at one time. So you can watch a recorded program and record two others. This is common with most DVR's. (Digital Video Recorders). :)

Padstack:
The antenna is part #30-1075 Discovery D-9000 for $90.00 by Antennacraft.
It is deliverable by UPS. It has a bit more sensitivity than the older model and is pretty critical as far as rotation. 1/2" made a lot of difference on analog channels 23 & 25. Mine is pointing through about a zillion trees.

JJK

Michael P 2341:

No I cannot. I only get 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 42.1, 42.2, and 61.1. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm on ridgewood almost @ crossview.





JJkizak:

Thanks!

WFMJ probably does not preempt network programming nearly as often as WEWS or WKYC does (the two Cleveland stations that IMNSHO are the worst offenders when it comes to prime-time network programming preemptions). Not only do they preempt too often, what they preempt network programming for makes no sense: Who wants to see old Matlock reruns insted of anything ABC is showing? WEWS has done this countless times (and in glorious stretch-o-vision too boot).

I'm glad I can pick up WFMJ and WKBN (WYTV is harder to pull in) where I live.

Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.

pardon me for being such a noob.

Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.

pardon me for being such a noob.


WKBN digital is not on yet. They have tower issues and since they don't own their tower, scheduling the work is out of their control. I believe the crews are doing the work now, but of course in NE Ohio, weather is going to become an issue.

Antennaweb does not show WKBN as being a digital station. Doesn't a station have to be digital to braodcast HD content? The reason I ask is that I'd like to try and receive WKBN becasue I would like to replace the crappy 3 month old Channel Master antenna (plastic clips are all breaking, what a poor poor design), with a multidirectional UHF antenna, but the Cleveleand digital CBS affiliate is a VHF channel.

pardon me for being such a noob.Sorry if my post was confusing. I should have said I'm glad I can get Analog WKBN & WFMJ. The 2 Youngstown digital stations are harder to get then their analog counterparts with my indoor Silver Sensor. I have locked onto both WFMJ-DT anf WYTV-DT, however that was during the summer months later in the evening. I can get 2 of the Youngstown analog stations virtually anytime. They come in better on my old Zenith "click Tuner" set than they do on the OTA tuner in my 921.

Tim: Ouch you are at the bottom of the hill. You may have to "dance around your yard" looking for a "sweet spot" (the spot where you get enough signal with the least amount of interference). The terrain works against you. I bet multipath issues (which cause ghosts on analog stations but prevents digital signals form locking) are a big problem. Since ch 3.1, 3.2 are the closest to your location and you did not list them (unless you don't have a true VHF antenna). You might get away with just UHF for WOIO-DT 10 but that won't help WKYC-DT 2. You need an 8 foot wide antenna to pick up WKYC's current frequency. It appears that after the transition is over WKYC will move to UHF (they applied for ch 17).

Tim: Ouch you are at the bottom of the hill. You may have to "dance around your yard" looking for a "sweet spot" (the spot where you get enough signal with the least amount of interference). The terrain works against you. I bet multipath issues (which cause ghosts on analog stations but prevents digital signals form locking) are a big problem. Since ch 3.1, 3.2 are the closest to your location and you did not list them (unless you don't have a true VHF antenna). You might get away with just UHF for WOIO-DT 10 but that won't help WKYC-DT 2. You need an 8 foot wide antenna to pick up WKYC's current frequency. It appears that after the transition is over WKYC will move to UHF (they applied for ch 17).


I can get WOIO with a home-made dipole antenna any time I want. Actually, any of the stations I mentioned will come in at any time. I'm looking around for a decent antenna that I can pull in the major stations with. I'm trying to get the wife convinced to let me pick a new one up tomorrow when I make a Dayton run to MCM, but considering I'm picking up a pair of bass shakers while I'm there that she doesn't know about, I should probably hold off... :) I'm thinking of rigging up a new dipole antenna and putting it up on top of my house where it's not too terribly obvious and see how it works out. Does anyone know the exact length that I would need to make a dipole that would pick up WKYC?

Thanks!

A long time ago I did a spreadsheet based on a formula for Yagi antennas on the U.S. NTSC standards. The only missing data is the spacing between the 3 elements.

Since we are now trying for digital, the video & audio carriers are no longer a part of the equation. If all you want is a simple dipole I'd just make one based either on the video carrier element length or an average between the video and audio.

Here is the part of the speradsheet that pertains to WKYC (both digital and analog):

CHAN VIDEO AUDIO video element audio element reflector element

2 54 55.25 59.75 8.470588235 7.832635983 8.666666667
3 60 61.25 65.75 7.640816327 7.117870722 7.8

Frequency is in MHz, the elements are in feet.

Since it's hard to get the spreadsheet to format,lets just say the dipole should be somewhere between 8.4' and 8.6'

Good luck!

I've been chatting with one of the developers for the Media Portal project regarding ATSC support. And we were talking about issues that I am having with my HDTV tuner card whichis an Avermedia A180.

At this point it looks like my stutter/reception issues are multipath related...the A180 has a crappy tuner that doesn't deal with multipathing as well as the newer cards by Vbox and Fusion which use a 5th generation Samsung tuner.

I've got a UHF multidirectional antenna on the way, which should help with some of the multipathing issues, but I probably need to get a new HDTV tuner card as well. This is all well and good, but I 'm still going to be left with 2 VHF channels to tune :(.

Is there a way that I could use the VHF portion of the Channel Master antenna that I have as well as the new UHF flyswatter? Can they be mounted on the same pole? DO I need some kind of signal splitter/combiner?

Does anyone have some kind of electronic stuff to combine two UHF antennas and allow for the space diversities and multipath problems? And the antennas pointed in different fixed positions on the same pole?

JJK

Does anyone have some kind of electronic stuff to combine two UHF antennas and allow for the space diversities and multipath problems? And the antennas pointed in different fixed positions on the same pole?

JJKYou can put multiple antennas on one pole, however the spacing between the antennas is critical. If the antennas are too close together, they will interact with each other. It's easiser to combine one VHF & one UHF antennas together than to combine 2 of the same band. There used to be a device that I believe has been discontinued called a "Jointenna", that allowed 2 of the same antennas to be combined when one antenna was used for a single channel. Basically the Jointenna notched out one channel and allowed only the noched uot channel on the 2nd input.

If you are trying to aim antennas at Cleveland and Akron at the same time, the best way is to use an A/B switch.

The reason I brought this up was I am not familiar with all of the equipment that is available, as fast as technology happens nowadays. I used to maintain Quad diversity military Tropo systems with Parametric amps and 4 receivers combined together, Two of them one frequency, two of them vertically polarized, two of them horizontally polarized and two antennas spaced 50 feet apart vertically and maybe 150 feet apart. All the receivers were phased together perfectly and the phasing held pretty well untill the signal started to degrade. An IF combiner took the best receiver or if all four were equal all four would share. The intermod would hold at -55db with good signal conditions but would degrade with poor signal conditions. 20 db quieting checked at about -102dbm to -106 dbm. If you were filthy rich one could get a bunch of parametric amps (noise figure 1.8 db) at about 250K each and set one up for each channel. Would have to win the Powerball lottery to do this. Or maybe somebody in Tiawan has some little gadget for $25.00.

JJK

FWIW, I say keep PBS. I'll gladly pay the $5. McNeil-Lehrer news hour, Washington Week in Review, Nova, Frontline, are all excellent. City Club and Feagler & Friends for local politics. I grew up on Sesame Street and Zoom. The garbage on Nickelodeon is not what I'd call "educational"

Having a couple of minutes before the show and after the show with "funded by..." is a far cry better than commercial TV interrupting every 5 minutes with the same Ford pickup truck commercial over and over and over again.

Agreed! Now that the HD programming has been stopped on 50.1 its hardly worth turning on my tv anymore :(

Why did they stop the HD on 50.1?

JJK

Why did they stop the HD on 50.1?

An explanation posted right here on this thread a couple of pages back, from PBS 45 & 49's Don Freeman, copied here by me (since he posted it in the Youngstown thread originally):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6411413&&#post6411413

You are correct. WNEO-DT and WEAO-DT (45 and 50) have temporarily discontinued our HD service. This is a technical and legal issue. When we have the technical problems resolved (aiming for November 5) we'll return with three channels from midnight until 7pm, and a HD and SD channel from 7pm until midnight. Channel 1 will be our HD service. Channel 2 will remain as our digital rebroadcast of our analog service. Channel 3 will be our Information & Education service (INFOTV), blending CPB/Annenberg programs with rebroadcasts of PBS prime-time shows and school age kids shows. Channel 4 will be The Ohio Channel, which provides live coverage of the Ohio House and Senate, committee hearings and government issues, along with public affairs programs produced by PBS stations around Ohio.
We're sorry that we've been forced to temporarily drop the HD channel. It will return as quickly as we can resolve our switcher issues.

Inundated:
Thank you

JJK

The reason I brought this up was I am not familiar with all of the equipment that is available, as fast as technology happens nowadays. I used to maintain Quad diversity military Tropo systems with Parametric amps and 4 receivers combined together, Two of them one frequency, two of them vertically polarized, two of them horizontally polarized and two antennas spaced 50 feet apart vertically and maybe 150 feet apart. All the receivers were phased together perfectly and the phasing held pretty well untill the signal started to degrade. An IF combiner took the best receiver or if all four were equal all four would share. The intermod would hold at -55db with good signal conditions but would degrade with poor signal conditions. 20 db quieting checked at about -102dbm to -106 dbm. If you were filthy rich one could get a bunch of parametric amps (noise figure 1.8 db) at about 250K each and set one up for each channel. Would have to win the Powerball lottery to do this. Or maybe somebody in Tiawan has some little gadget for $25.00.

JJK
You gave me an idea. In my job I use wireless microphones. The receivers for these mics us a technology called "dual diversity". Simply described dual diversity uses 2 antennas and selects the best signal at any given moment. What if this same technology were used to receive ASTC signals? The technology you described sounds like dual diversity.

Michael P 2341:
I would assume that dual diversity, would be highly simplified to one small chip, maybe like those position thingy's that tell you where you are at, that sample three satellites at one time to get your position. The system I worked on was "quad diversity". Space (2), frequency (3), and polarization (4). You would think that this would be available with it synced up on some clock frequency. The noise figure on HDTV front ends doesn't seem to be readily available. As I recall the noise figure on ordinary TV sets was around 4-6 db which isn't that good. I think most of them are designed around a 0 dbm signal input whereas the stuff I worked on was around -85 dbm without the parametric amp, -102 dbm with the parametric amp, and -105 dbm with the threshold extension panel cut in. The available pre-amps for the typical antenna installation really don't seem to do much, in fact they are worse than the tuner in the TV set. I tried three of them and they were a bit worse when in the circuit. The above sensitivities are 20 db quieting point for audio, not video quieting. You would think somebody would have a gadget even if it cost 500 bucks for dealing with tough signal problems.

JJK

Is twcneo getting TBSHD???? I was at titantv today looking to see if the boxing match this saturday was on in high def......well under 10/12s date on channel 642, is TBSHD, also, TNTHD is right by it!?!? what is going on here its also on todays date thru, is this a mistake???

Is twcneo getting TBSHD???? I was at titantv today looking to see if the boxing match this saturday was on in high def......well under 10/12s date on channel 642, is TBSHD, also, TNTHD is right by it!?!? what is going on here its also on todays date thru, is this a mistake???

Try sending a pm to this person here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6454058&&#post6454058) She should have all the answers for you. :)

Well, being from Parma, I notice that Cox Communications has about 10 channels dedicated to HD currently. The local channels, 3, 5, 8, 19, 43, etc... Also, there's ESPN, Discovery, PPV, HBO, and PBS. As for the others, that's another thing. If an antenna is not an option, then going for the digital cable box from Cox may be just what the HD Specialist has ordered. That should hook up to my Westinghouse quite nicely.

forget about tbshd, must be a typo, and between that and a late night I was out of my mind, when I looked at it this morning those are the digital versions of TNT and TBS, not the HD versions! Tnthd is actually located on another channel! sorry guys

There is no "TBSHD" as far as I know, unless local WTBS/17 Atlanta does HD on its over air channel, if they do. I'm pretty sure that they aren't offering it nationally. It's not on the AVS Forum "Programming Synopsis" in the HDTV Programming forum here...

In other news, WEWS-DT took a swan dive this morning, right in the middle of "Good Morning America". (I was up and checking it because I wanted to see GMA in HD.) It went off at just after 8:25 AM, and was off the air for some time. By the time I checked again, at just after 1 PM, it was back...so I don't know how long it was off.

yeah I even knew there was no TBSHD, its just a digital station but for some reason titantv has it listed as TBSHD not TBS digital or just tbs, also there is no listing of TNTHD in the right spot just TNTHD where tnt digital should be! sorry for all the confusion!

Well, don't forget about WGN from Chicago, too. That's about the same type of station that TBS is, I dunno if WGN would be carrying HD to the cable feed as well as in their area (you receive WGN from Cox Communications, dunno about Adelphia, Comcast, or Road Runner, tho). As far as other stations like that, that to me sound like something to look over.

And oddly enough, WGN-HD IS carried on Canadian satellite systems!

Anyone else notice MNF on WEWS analog channel 5 looking like crap tonight? I noticed it on the TV in the kitchen. The HD presentation looks ok though. The analog PQ looks almost as bad as the college football game me and Inundated were complaining about last week.

Anyone else notice MNF on WEWS analog channel 5 looking like crap tonight? I noticed it on the TV in the kitchen. The HD presentation looks ok though. The analog PQ looks almost as bad as the college football game me and Inundated were complaining about last week.

Nope...didn't see it, as I was watching the HD version on both the laptop and the upstairs TV, and it looked fine to me.

There would appear to be something wrong with WEWS's satellite receive equipment on the analog side, judging from your experience and what we both saw on that Ohio State game, which was just as bad on the DT stream since it was not in HD.

Just flipped the TV upstairs to analog 5 (Adelphia) and there are no PQ problems with NewsChannel 5. It must just be the analog satellite downlink for ABC and something to do with the games...?

someone asked me when are we "taking over Adelphia," I'd have a lot of money! Right now TW is in the legal process of acquring the system. At any time the "powers that be" could put the kabosh on it. If everything goes as planned, you should see some announcements come springtime. But this should be nothing new to anyone-- its been in the news. I can't really tell you anymore than this. I wish the process were faster, but there is a lot involved. I'll keep everyone posted as it gets closer. I am just as excited as you are. :) We have a lot of cool products and services and we constantly keep up to date on our technology and infrastructure.

someone asked me when are we "taking over Adelphia," I'd have a lot of money! Right now TW is in the legal process of acquring the system. At any time the "powers that be" could put the kabosh on it. If everything goes as planned, you should see some announcements come springtime. But this should be nothing new to anyone-- its been in the news. I can't really tell you anymore than this. I wish the process were faster, but there is a lot involved. I'll keep everyone posted as it gets closer. I am just as excited as you are. :) We have a lot of cool products and services and we constantly keep up to date on our technology and infrastructure.


To my understanding the deal with Comcast and Time Warner absorbing Adelphia is completed. I haven't heard anything about "still in the legal process."

put the kabosh onIsn't that what crazy Joe Davola wanted to put on Jerry?? :)

I watched the HD MNF and it was fine. The HD channel, when sending SD (4 x 3) during the daytime hours instead of HD is sending some kind of dumb dumb aspect which looks like to me they are using the long horizontal pixels for 16 x 9 to make the 4 x 3 picture bigger to fill the screen. The zoom controls cannot correct the distortion they are sending without making the vertical aspect larger to compensate, therby loosing all of the text and the tops of heads. When you expand a standard 4 x 3 to widescreen using the pixel method it creates much mushy and out of focus garbage. This is the only Cleveland channel that has the SD totally screwed up. The "zoom set by program" doesn't work on this channel and the other 17 zooms I have cannot correct the crap they are sending. At least the other channels the zoom can be set to view a picture that is correct in aspect. The analog channel on WEWS is fine.

JJK

To my understanding the deal with Comcast and Time Warner absorbing Adelphia is completed. I haven't heard anything about "still in the legal process."

Not exactly:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/051028/1184203.html?.v=2

The article indicates that the feds still have to approve the deal. The article is dated October 28th.

I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.

It looks like there'll be no ABC HD tonight on WEWS-DT, and perhaps later on other channels. WEWS is running continuous election results graphics, which forces them to run upconverted SD.

So far, WOIO and WJW are in HD for their 8 PM shows with no SD graphics. WKYC's 8 PM show ("The Biggest Loser") is not in HD. WOIO's 9 PM show ("The Amazing Race: Family Edition") is also not in HD, though I worry they'll run their own horrible SD stretched upconvert instead of passing the network through...

WJW should be able to do election graphics in HD, as their control room is equipped for it.

The article indicates that the feds still have to approve the deal. The article is dated October 28th.

Indeed, there's a whole lineup of local/state approvals involved as well, which is why the deal is estimated to take until next spring...

I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.

TWC and Comcast *generally* "know what they're doing", they just can't force regulators and bankruptcy courts to act in a day. :D

I'm just glad that I'm a Cox guy, at least we have one company that knows what they're doing.

I'm a Wide Open West guy, and they know what they're doing, too. IIRC they were the first cable company in NE Ohio to have all the locals in HD from Day One. (including CBS and Fox!) With that said, they're falling behind in adding HD channels now, and the gap is closing with DirecTV adding the new MPEG4 stuff in 2006. Hopefully the D* upgrades will put the heat on the cable companies to be more competitive with their HD offerings.

Well, just received my Westinghouse 32" yesterday, and it does great with even regular old analog cable. I do plan to pick up on an HD set-top box from Cox within the next week or two. What would most set-top boxes connect into? DVI? Component? HDMI (which Westinghouse doesn't have, but that's what you run into for a 32" that's under $1,000)?

All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.

Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.

All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.

Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.

I agree about the cables. I just purchased some Beldin/Canare custom made componant cables from BlueJeansCable.com at about 1/3 the cost of Monster cables. They are just beautiful hand made custom cables & are the best quality out there. I'd go with those as I think they are the best bang for your buck out there without breaking the bank. Great company to deal with too.

As for DVI, I'd say on a fixed pixel TV, you'd get better PQ with DVI than componant. I can't say if it'll work for you or not, but I just setup my buddy's Sharp LCD & DVI worked just fine with that same SA HD box. With BlueJeansCable, you can return the cable for any reason at all, so you might want to give DVI a try first & then just return it for a componant if it doesn't work.

-Todd

any updates on when 45 49 will be back to "normal" ?

I just checked titantv. Looks like WKYC will be broadcasting Sunday Night's Game in SD, while my ESPN-HD will get blacked out! :mad:
A perfectly good HD signal on ESPN that I won't be able to see.

HD football for Browns fans really sucks.

First the Buckeyes games get whacked NOW this. I'm not a happy camper.

That's the way it always is with local broadcasting of ESPN games. ESPN has the exclusive rights to the the HD signal.

All the set top boxes have component outs on them. PQ is just fine with component. Cox may have a box with DVI out but then you get into the problem of HDCP (copy protection) handshaking with your TV. In my case, the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD box does not talk to my Panasonic plasma via DVI, I get an error message. So I use the component connection and I'm perfectly happy with it.

Whatever you do, don't pay $100 for Monster cables at Best Buy, either component or DVI. It's overkill.

Yeah, I just got my HD Tuner from Cox today, it's a Scientific Atlanta 3250HD Explorer, and I did attach it via DVI (however, it receives it through a DVI Input using the PC button on my remote, as my Westy 32" recognizes it as). The DVI wasn't that expensive (just under $30 at Wal-Mart for a Philips DVI 6'). This has to be the first time I've ever seen WJW's newscast come in like this. I'm really impressed about the PQ with a DVI input. It's a little easier to hook up than a component, and it may be just as fast to respond. I only have 2 component inputs on my Westy, and I have a DVD Recorder/VCR Combo, and a Philips Home Theater to hook into those, so I needed those free. Other than that, I'm receiving HD without too much hassle. Just takes some learning with this cable box from Cox to get through all of this.

I just checked titantv. Looks like WKYC will be broadcasting Sunday Night's Game in SD, while my ESPN-HD will get blacked out! :mad:
A perfectly good HD signal on ESPN that I won't be able to see.

HD football for Browns fans really sucks.

First the Buckeyes games get whacked NOW this. I'm not a happy camper.
The last time an ESPN game was broadcast locally was on WEWS in crappy SD. Fortunately my ESPN feed on E* was NOT blacked out.

Don't assume that ESPN is being blacked out (unless your STB has already told you the game is blacked out). In the history of the "new Browns" on Sunday Night football there has never been a time that ESPN was blacked out for me on Dish. Even the SD feed of the satelllite beat out WEWS. I'm happy to see WKYC getting this game. We'll see if they can do a better job than WEWS has done.

Don't assume that ESPN is being blacked out (unless your STB has already told you the game is blacked out). In the history of the "new Browns" on Sunday Night football there has never been a time that ESPN was blacked out for me on Dish. Even the SD feed of the satelllite beat out WEWS. I'm happy to see WKYC getting this game. We'll see if they can do a better job than WEWS has done.

I just checked zap2it and it shows it listed. It doesn't indicate blackout.

What I don't like about this is Law & Order, Crossing Jordan are going to be shoved back to some unknown time in the morning. How does WKYC think watching Pittsburgh beating the crap out of the Browns is going to increase their ratings? Most people will probably switch by the end of the first half.

Any of the Youngstown stations covering the Steelers game? Maybe there is still hope for HD?

Anyone waching the Buckeyes on WEWS? I'm new to HD, so someone care to explain why it's not in HD? I'm assuming it's not HD, because MNF looks much better. It's not a bad picture, looks better than on my Dish, just curious.

We don't seem to get any local football in HD, between the Bucks and the Brownies.

Another thing, why does the stupid counter (at the top) have to be on every program that's upconverted SD?

That's annoying too.

Another question, if you dont mind. The EPG on my unit (Accurian HTS 6000) has the incorrect guide for every channel. The programming listed is correct, but the time is 1hr behind on everything.

Is this the unit, or the local stations?

Re: Browns/Steelers - the Browns may stink, but they get ratings, good or bad, and that's why WKYC jumped on it. They'll make a load of money off of it, and get to tweak "The Home of the Browns", WOIO/19, in the process. It's a win-win for them.

The game should be available in HD on ESPNHD. As far as I know, they don't black that out either on satellite or cable.

Re: Buckeyes in HD - it happens, but very rarely. ABC, which has the rights to most of their games, doesn't do many regular season HD college football games. In fact, the only dependable over-air HD games each weekend are usually CBS' Saturday late afternoon SEC matchup, and NBC's Notre Dame package (home games in HD only, I believe). And even the last one is new this year.

I don't think anyone said anything about a blackout. Of course, ESPN will have it in HD. The original poster was complaining that WKYC wasn't showing the ESPN high definition feed.

Well, NBCHD is also on the lineup as well as ESPNHD. So, we'll have to see which one of those are carrying the game. I'll have to run through my EPG from my cable box to see who will be carrying that game.

I've been switching between the news on Fox and Old School on ABC. Is it just me, or is Fox's signal much, much better?

I mean Old School looks good, DVD quality probably, but not that great.

Well, I watched some PBS this morning with Niagara Falls, and with their signal, I almost felt like I was back at Fallsview all over again. I know that WVIZ's signal is amongst the best in the HD series. As for FOX, they had some real great reception with the NFL games at least. As for everything else, I really haven't watched too much other than the digital cable channels all day. I'll let you know how the Browns game comes in tonight, which I'll try either NBC or ESPN HD.

I don't think anyone said anything about a blackout. Of course, ESPN will have it in HD. The original poster was complaining that WKYC wasn't showing the ESPN high definition feed.

Actually, I don't care WHERE the HD signal comes from, as long as I get it.

A few weeks ago Channel 43 had the exclusive rights to the Buckeyes/Illinois game and the ESPN and ESPNHD channels WERE blacked out. The SD signal on CH43 was horrible. I just don't want to experience that for tonights game.

Well, I saw the game on HD on ESPN through Adelphia. No blackout. Turned it on just in time to see the Steelers take a 10-7 lead.

So relax Cleveland....you got your Browns in HD...at least on my cable system.

I'm going to bed now. I'll find out how bad they got beat tomorrow. :)

Another question, if you dont mind. The EPG on my unit (Accurian HTS 6000) has the incorrect guide for every channel. The programming listed is correct, but the time is 1hr behind on everything.

Is this the unit, or the local stations?

Time Zone and Daylight Savings Time set correctly?
With the unit set to auto time I'm seeing the time
of some stations off a bit:
WOIO-DT 1:05 fast
WNEO-DT :10 fast
WEAO-DT :25 slow
the errors show up on the EPG...
If the Accurian maintained time during power
outages I'd leave it on manual...

Ed...

Well, I saw the game on HD on ESPN through Adelphia. No blackout. Turned it on just in time to see the Steelers take a 10-7 lead.

So relax Cleveland....you got your Browns in HD...at least on my cable system.

I'm going to bed now. I'll find out how bad they got beat tomorrow. :)

Well, I believe that ESPN HD had the better picture, because WKYC only carried the regular ESPN on their HD channel. It's always best to go straight to the source carrier of any game or show like this in order to get the best HD results.

What really tweaks me is this Saturday afternoon there are four games you can watch in HD (Harvard-Yale (HDNet), Virginia Tech-Virginia (ESPN), Syracuse-ND (NBC), or Alabama-Auburn (CBS)), but not Ohio State-Michigan on ABC. Buckeyes games and Channel 5 in general just look terrible.

ESPN/ESPN2 is broadcasting five HD games this week alone (including Miami-BGSU), but their sister (parent?) company ABC is only broadcasting three regular season games all season long in HD. (I got that off one of their press releases this morning.)

Yes, it's been a bad year to be a Bucks and HD fan.

BTW, The Browns/Steelers game looked great on ESPN HD from DirecTV. The Browns still stink, but they look good at it.

The WKYC-DT feed looked much better than last year when WEWS carried the ESPN Sunday Night game.

As for other markets carrying ESPN OTA: only the home town station of the 2 teams can show the ESPN feed (in this case Cleveland and Pittsburgh). Youngstown OTA stations cannot show the ESPN feed. It's an NFL rule that the visiting team's home market has to have OTA access to all games. If there is a sell-out than the home team's station can carry the game as well. Other cities in the market areas have to get the feed via cable or DBS.

There has been exceptions in the past, however that was under extrene circumstances (an approaching hurricane). For example last year there was a second Sunday NIght game between Pittsburg and Miami, it was rescheduled due to one of the 4 hurricanes that hit FLA (forgot which storm it was). That game was carried on Youngstown's WKBN - becuse Youngstown is considered a part of Pittsburgh market (albeit a secondary area as they are a primary Browns area). I was able to watch that game on my Zenith "click tuner" that seems to DX better than the wimpy tuners they have been putting in TV's since "cable ready" became the standard. Anyway that game used CBS announcers and logos, but also had breakaways to ESPN SportsCenter (since another game was in progress on ESPN). This was very rare and I'm glad I got to see it.

I just noticed something - this forum's time stamp has not been changed for standard time! I just edited the above post at 6:49 PM but the time stams showed 7:49. The time on my computer is correct, so somethin is not set correctly on the forum's server.

I just noticed something - this forum's time stamp has not been changed for standard time! I just edited the above post at 6:49 PM but the time stams showed 7:49. The time on my computer is correct, so somethin is not set correctly on the forum's server.

Funny it shows 6:49 on my computer.

I was not in Cleveland Sunday night, so I'm curious - did WKYC show the ESPN-HD feed? I'm not clear from everybody's posts whether WKYC was showing the SD ESPN feed or the HD feed.

Also, did WKYC have ESPN announcers or WKYC announcers?

Thanks.

WKYC-DT showed the ESPN SD feed stretched. It was clean and uncompressed, but not HD.
They ran promos for other ESPN programs as well as MNF on ABC (WKYC must have loved running that).

The same thing happened last year when WEWS carried the SNF game, only the picture was somewhat snowy.

The only "local" content was some commercials.

The ESPN HD feed was not blacked out on Dish Network. Cable and DirecTV YMMV

No local can show the HD feed of an ESPN Sunday Night Game.

The first quarter looked awful.

The second quarter looked really nice, I thought it was in HD, but apparently that wasn't possible.

No local can show the HD feed of an ESPN Sunday Night Game.

Correct. The local rights to the ESPN "in-market" Sunday night games don't include HD. I don't know if this is technical or financial.

It could well be technical, as for example...if WKYC wanted to show the game in HD, if they had those rights, they'd have to someone get ESPN-HD's feed and convert it from 720p to 1080i. I don't know if they even HAVE such equipment in-house.

I wasn't in town Sunday night either, but in the past Adelphia has not blacked out ESPN-HD for Sunday night Browns games.

Hello Everyone,

For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??

I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.

All my other channes are fine

Hello Everyone,

For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??

I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.

All my other channes are fine

No problems here OTA. 100% signal strength, as usual.

Hello Everyone,

For the last week or so Fox (8 or 31) has had strong deviations in signal strenth causeng my HDTivo to pixalate, lock up etc. is anyone else experieceing this problem??

I have a Wineguard 7032 antenna mounted in the attic, wih a low gain/high output preamp.

All my other channes are fine
I too have had problems wth WJW-DT yesterday, and I'm only .8 of a mile from the transmitter. I usually get a signal strength of 120 (on the Echostar scale that tops out at 125). Last night I had a hard time locking onto the signal, it was fluxuating (I thought it was my antenna until I read your post).

Every time the weather fronts move in it raises hell with the signal strength on some digital stations as in my opinion they are not transmitting the equivalent power as the analog channels which hang in there like a rock. Low varying signal strength on a digital channel is virtually impossible to watch. That's when I switch back to analog. PBS is the worst for me in this regard and sometimes 61.1 and all the 17.1 stuff. WJW digital had one or two hiccups but not bad at all.

JJK

Guys,

The reason for my comments is 8.1 was never like that, but this past week has been quite poor regardless of weather.

With my eqipment setup I was never lacking for signal strength but now 8.1 is all over the place

Maybe it's time to give the engineers at FOX 8 a call. Have they ever posted here? I know that "21 Cheif", the engineer at WFMJ in Youngstown posts here quite often. We need to get his counterparts at all the Cleveland stations to post here as well.

Ohio State/Michigan game (not HD) on WEWS looks horrible again, like the Ohio St. game about a month ago (maybe it's the same crappy truck?) Can hardly read the team names on the score ticker, and the 50 yard cam looks like garbage.

The scorebox graphic looks like garbage on the SD analog feed on cable too.

Anyone experiencing signal problems with 5-1? Never had a problem until 2 weeks ago and now the signal strengh is jumping around all over the place. Was up on the roof this weekend trying to adjust it back in but had no luck.

dfm

The SD Ohio State game was terrible They are changing the 4 x 3 pixels to 15 x 9 pixels (not 16 x 9) stretching the crap out of it causing excessive blurring and ghosting. The aspect they are transmitting is also incorrect as the horizontal is being stretched more than the vertical causing fat people. The optical industry has spent billions perfecting and reducing linear aspect distortion (lower than 1 %) in their lenses and one stupid tv station has managed to set us back 100 years.

JJK

Last week, WJW experienced a failure of one of it's three transmitter tubes for ch.31. Until we can get it replaced, we'll be at about half power.

Last week, WJW experienced a failure of one of it's three transmitter tubes for ch.31. Until we can get it replaced, we'll be at about half power.Thank you for your post. I live only .8 of a mile from your trransmitter and have been experiencing dropouts. This may explain the problems I have been having.

Updates on various things:

* If WJW-DT is on half-power, I can't tell here...they're as strong as usual on my home setup (amplified indoor antenna, 2nd floor loft in northwest Akron, about 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm). No dropouts that I've seen, at least so far. This is tonight...maybe they got that transmitter tube today. :D

* As mentioned over in the Youngstown thread, WEAO-DT has split into four subchannels. 50.1 is apparently a placeholder for the HD feed of PBS shows (presumably only used in prime time). 50.2 is the SD simulcast, 50.3 is the new (SD) channel with time-shifted repeats, kids shows, etc., and 50.4 is the Ohio Channel.

* For whatever reason, WOIO-DT is running David Letterman in upconverted SD tonight. It's a new show (topical material in the monologue).

Just a minute ago, WOIO flipped to HD for Letterman.

What tube types do you use? Are they vacuum tubes or Klystrons? What is the power rating on each tube? Do you have to phase it in with the other tubes?

JJK

Updates on various things:

* If WJW-DT is on half-power, I can't tell here...they're as strong as usual on my home setup (amplified indoor antenna, 2nd floor loft in northwest Akron, about 20 miles from the Parma antenna farm). No dropouts that I've seen, at least so far. This is tonight...maybe they got that transmitter tube today. :D

* As mentioned over in the Youngstown thread, WEAO-DT has split into four subchannels. 50.1 is apparently a placeholder for the HD feed of PBS shows (presumably only used in prime time). 50.2 is the SD simulcast, 50.3 is the new (SD) channel with time-shifted repeats, kids shows, etc., and 50.4 is the Ohio Channel.

* For whatever reason, WOIO-DT is running David Letterman in upconverted SD tonight. It's a new show (topical material in the monologue).

The reason I had dropouts on WJW-DT may have to do with the aluminum siding on my house. While I try to keep my antennas looking out a window, not all stations are in a direction where I have a window. For example the only way I can see WVIZ-DT is by runing a long coax to my patio door. The signal drops to 0 as soon as a wall gets between my antenna and WVIZ. I do not have the same problem with the full-power stations.

Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ? The new line up for 50 is:
50.1: blank for now, even during prime time
50.2: WEAO "main feed" (i.e. same as analog 49)
50.3: The Annenberg/CPB Channel (educational videos for credit classes)
50.4: The Ohio Channel (same as WVIZ's 25.2)

Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?

I noticed that on my USB tuner card, yes. And I wonder if they don't quite have the HD stuff fixed yet, but wanted to go ahead and set up the new system anyway?

Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.

Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.

Here, 50-2 (SD simulcast) looks on sync, but -3 and -4 are both off as you describe. It's unnerving.

50-1, by the way, shows up on my digital tuner card as 1080i, so one presumes that's where the HD will land whenever they get it up and running.

Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.
Not yesterday, however WEAO has been notoriusly out-of-sync on many occasions ever since I first had an ASTC tuner (one year ago this month, BTW).

Is anybody else experiencing really bad lip sync problems on 50-2, 50-3, and 50-4? The audio is behind by about 2 seconds. I'm watching OTA, by the way.

50-3 and 50-4 ??

I'm only getting -1,-2 and the guide data on DirecTiVo still says, "Regular Programming for both channels all the time.

50-3 and 50-4 ??

I'm only getting -1,-2 and the guide data on DirecTiVo still says, "Regular Programming for both channels all the time.
Rescan. There have been a few changes.

Rescan. There have been a few changes.

I don't know if the DirecTV folks can rescan or not, or if they are dependent on guide data from the satellite provider.

Ah. My bad.

Ah. My bad.

No, my comment above was actually a question, in a way...I *don't* know if the DirecTV folks can rescan OTA channels or not :) I know the guide data comes down the satellite from the provider, but I don't know if they can rescan independently of this. I'm guessing no, particularly on the DirecTivo, which is dependent on the program guide to record...

Any D* folks with an answer to this? I seem to recall you have to badger the D* folks to get them to fix stuff like this...

I don't know about the DirecTivo (I'm holding out for the Mpeg-4 version for the HD locals), but on my older Sony HD DirecTV receiver, rescanning is just as easy as any other model. Basically the only difference between DirecTV receivers and cable receivers is that the DirecTV one decodes the satellite signals and the cable box decodes the cable signals. Otherwise, both generally have OTA digital and analog tuners built-in that function separately from the pay-service side.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

The HDTivo seems to add and remove channels at will. Curiously, the guide has never shown data on the PBS channels in the 50s. As noted before, they have to be entered manually(a pain) which has always made me wonder if most people don't know they're even there. I found them, thx to u guys and a lil' trial&error. Unfortunately, none of them are coming in today or yesterday(50-2,3,4)and I'm thinking the recent change might've dropped power.

Tom-

I rescanned today and my DirecTiVo found 50-2 and -3 that it hadn't had before. I have also never seen valid guide data for this channel. I've spoken to the engineer at WNEO as well as level 2 tech support at DirecTV. Neither know why it is like this. I NEED guide data for the DVR features of the DirecTiVo to be usefull. Who else can I call to get this working properly??

Tom-

I rescanned today and my DirecTiVo found 50-2 and -3 that it hadn't had before. I have also never seen valid guide data for this channel. I've spoken to the engineer at WNEO as well as level 2 tech support at DirecTV. Neither know why it is like this. I NEED guide data for the DVR features of the DirecTiVo to be usefull. Who else can I call to get this working properly??

Wish I could help you solve the problem, but FWIW, my Sony box has the same issues on 50.x. I've never had valid guide data for any of them, but curiously, the valid guide data did show up on 49.x. Of course this was before they added -3 and -4, and the guide data for 49.x is now gone.

I've always heard that the guide data on DirecTV boxes came from the satellite - even on the local digitals. I don't believe the boxes get the data from the PSIP info at all.

Watching the Cavs game tonight on WUAB-DT, the PQ is pretty good (although not HD), looks like they have an all-digital path from the arena to the station. (unlike the hideous crap PQ on the ABC college football game right now)

The Cavs game score bug is ridiculously large. Almost takes up the whole lower left quarter of the screen !

Got a letter today from Wide Open West. Rates going up Jan 2006.

Digital basic (no premium channels, STARZ included) - $56.99 (increase of $3.00/mo)
add the HD DVR (the POS SA8000HD) - 12.99
add the HD tier - 9.99
plus taxes, my total bill will be $83.95/mo
Call me crazy, but that's crazy, for basic cable with no premiums!

What are you Adelphia folks paying?

84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.

What would dish plus an antenna cost you?

Watching the Cavs game tonight on WUAB-DT, the PQ is pretty good (although not HD), looks like they have an all-digital path from the arena to the station. (unlike the hideous crap PQ on the ABC college football game right now)

The Cavs game score bug is ridiculously large. Almost takes up the whole lower left quarter of the screen !

That scoreboard pisses me off like no other. Its not like it is even filled with info. Its just the team names, score, and time. It could be 1/3 the size and still legible.

I'd have to pull out my most recent Adelphia bill to break out the non-Internet cost, but the entire thing is pushing $120ish (including HSI). That includes HDTV tier and one 8000HD DVR.

84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.

What would dish plus an antenna cost you?


DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)
and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that :D

It's hard to compare them directly. My basic monthly charge is $106, but that includes my internet service. Basic cable, plus digital cable, plus internet adds up to $88. Then you add $5 for HD Plus, $8 for the HD DVR, and $5 more for DVR Service. So it's pretty darned expensive.

I have no idea how much Adelphia charges for standalone Internet service. Someday I may find out - there is less and less on cable that holds any interest for me. So I could go back to pure OTA with little hardship. But I'd still need the internet.

looks like cable is pretty pricey for most of us. Time Warner here.

Basic analog cable + extended basic(includes cartoon network, weather channel..etc but no premiums and not digital)
+ internet = $94.94 total
(includes $10 off of internet w/cable tv sub)

Long term programming note:

The Indians will face the Chicago White Sox on Sunday, April 2nd on ESPN2 to open the 2006 major league baseball season. And yes, I'm sure the game will be in HD.

So is MNF on 5.1 breaking up for anyone else? I'm receiving OTA and I've been getting fairly regular dropouts on voice and audio. It's not so bad that I've gone to the SD feed, but it's quite annoying.

Just wondering if it could be my setup or if it's just WEWS typical attempt at hosing up HD to frustrate the consumer & encourage us not to watch their programming...

So is MNF on 5.1 breaking up for anyone else? I'm receiving OTA and I've been getting fairly regular dropouts on voice and audio. It's not so bad that I've gone to the SD feed, but it's quite annoying.

Just wondering if it could be my setup or if it's just WEWS typical attempt at hosing up HD to frustrate the consumer & encourage us not to watch their programming...

Absolutely rock solid for me in Medina using OTA. No dropouts or breakups at all. Signal strength is not moving and is about 98%.

For what it's worth, several folks complained of audio dropouts in different markets on MNF tonight. (I didn't watch, so I have no idea...)

It may well be a receiver-related issue, as just as we see above here, the reports vary even within the same market.

Thanks for the responses ZMan & Inundated. I was using an HD Tivo OTA to receive.

5.1 tends to be my biggest problem station for dropouts. Guess I need to play around w/my antenna angles to see if I can increase signal strength some (although it's usually fairly good signal strength wise) & maybe drop it directly into my TV's tuner as a further experiment ('course doing that cuts down my signal another 3dB - a conundrum) to see if it's perhaps tuner related.

Whenever 5.1 flakes I just presume it's their problem nowadays, but perhaps that's not true unfortunately...

Thanks for the feedback.

I just had my tv serviced as part of the warranty from HH Greg. It was just an annual cleaning. Fixed convergence, fun stuff like that.

The guy also showed me how to get in the service menu, adjusted some of the geometry and whatnot. Did a lot more than he was supposed to.

I think the guys name was Rey (or that was his initials) and he worked for Electra-sound. He did such a good job and was so helpful I figured I would post here and let you guys know of the good service. If you have any problems and are not under warranty you should check them out.

Stu

DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)
and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that :D
You should be able to get the HD Tivo for significantly less than $1K now - I picked up a 2nd one recently for $299 after rebate and got enough programming concessions kicked in that it was only around $100. As a new subscriber I'd guess you could do even better.

Now the HD locals are likely a bigger concern, especially if an antenna is a no go for you. Given that, I'd wait until the MPEG4 rollout locally and see how they compare then.

I haven't found D*'s HD service to be that bad overall. I wish they had TNT-HD and more of the movie channels in HD. Although if I hadn't bought in already, I'd likely wait for MPEG4 locally to commit when you'll have local capabilities and likely/hopefully more national HD networks available.

84 a month for TV? Makes me happy I still just have an antenna.

What would dish plus an antenna cost you?
I have Dish Network "E*". I have the "Top-120" package and do not pay for the "LIL's" Cleveland locals since I live in the antenna farm and get them OTA for free via the 921. I have a E* DVR-921. There is a $4.98/mo DVR fee that they waive if you get the "Everything Pack" (I believe it's around $80 but it includes every premium service).

Top-120 w/DVR fee minus LIL's plus Ohio tax = $45.34

Keep in mind that I have to enter my timers manually for the OTA stations. In order toget guide data from the satellite I'd have to subscribe to the LIL's (which are SD with no subchannels and are no where near as good as the OTA feeds). Add $5.98 for the Cleveland LIL's.

I had the LIL's briefly. It's not worth $5.98 for me becuse whith the exception of WBNX, everything else comes in digitally OTA. Also we have the same problem with the PBS channels guide data that was mentioned above. The reason for the problem is the satellite guides only have the analog station's guide data. For WVIZ none of their digital services carry the same programs as 25-0, for WNEO/WEAO 50-2 is the same program as analog 49-0. All other local broadcasters use the "-1" channel as the mirror of the analog station.

I wish E* (and D* for that matter) would use PSIP data for all OTA integrated EPG's.

DirecTV would be $10/mo cheaper, but then I'd have to buy the HD DVR ($1000?)
and currently D*'s HD service sux, and no HD locals until sometime next year. I'm not going to even attempt OTA HD again, I lost most of my hair doing that :D
OTA is the only way to go! There is no compression artifacts on OTA (well except for "The Tube" on WUAB 43-2). You should be able to get great reception in Shaker Hts.

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?

Mike

Since the Browns are in the AFC, their games are almost always on CBS. CBS only shows a few games in HD each week. Since the browns matchups are usually pretty far down the list in priority, they aren't usually in HD. The two games on Fox, plus the Sunday night ESPN games were in HD (I think the Indy game was too), but given their schedule for the rest of the season, I doubt any of the remaining games will be in HD, except possibly the second Pittsburgh game.

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?

Mike

The basic reason is that most of the Browns games are on CBS, which only telecasts 3 games in HD. CBS telecasts the AFC, Fox has the NFC. When the Browns are on Fox, they are in HD.

And the good news, if not for now...

All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.

Hi all. I'm a Buckeye now living in St. Louis. To watch my Brownies, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket with Superfan so I can watch any available games in HD. Problem is that the Browns are almost never in HD. Besides the obvious (they aren't that good), does anyone have any info on why the Browns are so seldom in HD?

Mike
It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.

Yesterday the following e-mail was sent out by WVIZ. Looks like we're going to have to wait at least until summer for the North Royalton tower to go live.

-----------------------------------------

First of all I want to thank all of you for your continuing interest in WVIZ/PBS's digital channel. Unfortunately the issues at our main transmitting tower in North Royalton still are not resolved. I feel that resolution is very close and I hope we can begin our full power DTV transmission project by the first of the year. The project should take about six months to complete.

As you know we have been broadcasting a low power DTV signal from our studio location on Brookpark Road. (It's near the State Road exit on I-480 if your trying to point a directional antenna.) The low power signal makes it difficult to receive WVIZ-DT from a distance.

Thank you to those of you who pointed out that our web site had old information on it. Hopefully that will be updated very shortly after you read this message.

I ask for your understanding and patience as we struggle to get our full power DTV on the air.

Gary Bluhm
Director of Engineering

It's because they are in the AFC which is carried on CBS. This season FOX has outdone CBS in the HD arena. There were only 2 Browns games on FOX this season. The only time the Browns will be on FOX is when the visiting team is in the NFC.

What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand? :D

You and me both! :D

And I've got the same one in my sights...



And that really stunk, because I actually know someone who had a minor (off-screen) involvement in that movie. :D

(Rant mode...ON!)

Is there something wrong with WEWS to begin with? This afternoon, I had the pleasure, uh, of watching the Ohio State/Minnesota game on that station. Of course, the game wasn't in HD (and I wasn't expecting it to be), but the SD upconvert STUNK. It looked like they were upconverting a ghost-laden analog signal from out of town! I'll tell you how bad it was...WOIO/WUAB's SD upconvert was better. (And 19/43's is the worst in the market. By the way, in "true HD", it looks embarrassing.)

The OSU game this afternoon - let's just say the ghosting was so bad, you couldn't even READ THE NAMES OF THE TEAMS on the score bar up top. It was "OHIO ST. " ("I think, because it kinda looks like OHIO ST.") vs. a mess of letters that could very well be MINN, or MISS, or MIWW, or WIMM, or whatever. I honestly did not know which team the Buckeyes were playing until someone mentioned their name on the broadcast.

This is bad enough on my old SD/downconverted to 480i set upstairs. On the new HD setup I have, it was downright TV criminal.

Oddly enough, there appears to be no problem with WEWS' SD upconvert of NewsChannel 5 at 11 tonight, with no "ghosting" on the graphics. Maybe there's an ABC network related problem? I should check the Programming boards...

(Rant mode OFF!)



(re: WOAC-DT 47)

Yeah, I saw they have an STA out there, and I'm guessing I was picking that up with my amplified indoor antenna. The signal wasn't nearly powerful enough for 1000KW. When they do go to that, they'll likely blow my tuner out :D

But you're right, they're physically located, for us Akron types, away from the other stations. Parma is northwest of here, Copley (WEAO et al.) is west-southwest for me, and Brimfield is east-southeast for me. I should still get it well due to the close distance, even off the back end of the antenna.

BTW, from what I remember, they're either co-located or across Rt. 43 from WNIR/100.1's stick and WAOH-LP 29...the analog stick for 67 used to be up the hill from Belden Village Mall, but has probably moved since then.


No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.

No, they are located in Brimfield near Rt 43 an I-76.... northeast of the intersection. 500' tower.

Correct..as I noted, across from WNIR/WAOH-LP 29, which is on the northwest corner of that interchange.

Or do you mean that WOAC's analog 67 is up there now as well?

The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart

The WOAC analog has been there since mid-90's. Sorry, when you said WNIR/TV 29, I was thinking of their studio and radio transmitter site on RT 59 near Wal-Mart

Ah, so WOAC moved it up there while I was living in California. I remember when they were up on the hill on Fulton Road behind Belden Village, and I could see their tower from the window at Sears...but the signal from that tower was snowy on the TVs inside the store.

Yeah, WNIR's stick used to be at their studio along Rt. 59. They moved it down to the Rt. 43/I-76 location a few years ago...I believe roughly at the same time they upgraded to their current power level. The sticks you see now at the Rt. 59 "Broadcast Park" studio site are solely for the mighty (cough, cough) WJMP/1520, that 1000 watt directional daytimer currently running Fox Sports Radio.

I'm pretty sure TV 29 has always been at 76/43.

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.

It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.

It's either an ABC or WEWS problem. They just switched to SD.

Nobody else in the thread in HDTV Programming was reporting the breakups I saw, though others had problems when WEWS did not.

And that SD upconvert is just as bad as it usually is during ABC's CFB. Ugh!

Anyone watching the HD college football game (Texas/Colorado) on ABC/WEWS-DT? Or should I say, "trying to watch", because they're having crazy picture breakups?

It was looking great and working flawless before, but it just went nuts in the past 10 minutes. Checked both my OTA tuner card and Adelphia, and it's going on in both places.

I switched over to Youngstown's 33-1 on OTA and it is fine. Looks like a WEWS problem to me.

What's the matter? You didn't think the two previous identical responses were clear enough for Michael P 2341 to understand? :D
Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.

Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.

And the good news, if not for now...

All indications are that all NFL games will be in HD in 2006-on, including all CBS games. So, this situation won't last beyond this year.

Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true! :D

Excuuuuse me! The original post (Kalan74) was on a previous page. I never saw yours or jtscherne's posts when I replied.

Besides, after reading the other 2 posts, neither of you mentioned when the Browns could be seen on FOX, the leader in HD sports.

That's why you need to read on to see if a response is posted. Sorry if I offended you, we've all done it from time to time.

As to the second part of your statement it appears that The Browns are not going to be on FOX anymore this season. There is a schedule here (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/schedule) for you to look at what's upcoming at FOX.

Where did you get this info? I really hope it's true! :D

Ken H, a moderator here on AVS Forum who's really plugged into various TV-related sources, has stated this repeatedly in the NFL-related threads in the HDTV Programming section...all NFL games will be in HD in 2006. FOX is almost there already, and I presume that means CBS will come around as well. NBC will be HD for Sunday Night Football next season.

BTW, WEWS-DT finally fixed whatever was wrong, and went back to full HD at halftime of that game...and are in HD for the second game.

(Even WEWS-DT's upconverted SD was messed up earlier, during infomercials...and at one point they were even off the air.)

And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!

Receiving Canadian Digital Stations in Cleveland ?

Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?
Why? The Winter Olympics are rapidly approaching!
US TV coverage is for the most part, Figure Skating, Hockey and any event a US competitor medals in. The Canadian coverage is much more in depth and even across all sports. In the past I tried to receive the Windsor analog station on channel 9 (or10) but channel 8 just blows it away. Hi-def is not a factor.

And CBS' Navy/Army is in HD on WOIO-DT, as well!

For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.

Has anyone had any luck or grief receiving Canadian digital stations?


At this point, the only Canadian DT stations are in major markets like Toronto and Vancouver. As far as I know, the Windsor and London stations don't even have their DT sticks up yet.

The Windsor analog is 9...the London analog is 10. That may or may not play havoc with WOIO-DT 10 (or vice versa) in parts of Northern Ohio. I never got CFPL/10 here in Akron, so I don't know how bad the problem is.

I know you can get the Toronto DTs, especially the digital CBCer, in Buffalo/Niagara Falls, but that's about it.

Hey everyone! As far as HDTV I'm just now researching and shopping, but reading these forums has brought up a point, really a peeve.

As we all know, Akron is one of the largest cities nationwide to not have it's own DMA (designated market area). Newark, NJ is another city like this. They say it's because we're so close to Cleveland, and that makes SOME sense.

However, Dayton is almost as close to Cincy as Akron is to Cleveland and they've got I think every major network affiliate except maybe WB or UPN. If we were to call it the Akron/Canton DMA it would be a good bit larger than Dayton's DMA.

Baltimore and Washington are as close together and each have their own. Yeah, they're both more similar in size but easily could have shared a Baltimore-Washington DMA if it had worked out that way.

Who agrees here? It does suck to turn on the news and get all this crap from Cleveland, nothing against Cleveland but news from Akron and Canton would be nice. Yeah, I know Pax 23 had one for a while but that was about it.

Does anyone know-

why
how
who decided

with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?

Of course I've seen a nationwide map of the market areas and some of the ones out West are ridiculous-the entire state of Utah in SLC's, others that wrap entirely around another...

Does anyone know-

why
how
who decided

with regards to this? Was it basically by chance, or market forces at work or what?

I think about this one a lot.

Akron/Canton has enough TV stations to be its own separate market. Between 17, 23, 49, 55 and 67, there's enough for all of the "big four" commercial networks plus PBS.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle is rather simple. Since Cleveland's TV stations are all transmitting from the Parma antenna farm, that means they put a clear signal into Akron/Canton.

So, blame Lake Erie, for there are no "northern suburbs" of Cleveland (aside from way out east/west), and the TV sticks aren't 20 miles further north...

In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.

When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.

IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.

Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.

If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.


Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.

BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=67893

And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.

No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.

Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.

And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.

why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon?
The owners of WAKR/WAKC sold out to Valuevision
for around $6 million who sold to Paxson for around
$24 million...


When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the
transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with
a beaut of an analog signal.
Whitehead Media bought Canton's 67 and moved the
transmitter as close to Cleveland as technically
possible... It's now owned by Scripps (WEWS/Food/HGTV/DIY)...


They should have done the same for 23. Maybe
they will once it goes digital.
There's a channel 23 in East Lansing Michigan...
Read that WVPX-DT 59 has a Canadian coordination delay...
Is this true??

Ed...

I think part of the delay is that PAX doesn't want to build out on 59 (an out-of-core channel) then turn around and move to another in-core channel. They may be waiting for the second round filings to get in-core. I understand that they have a channel 59 antenna on the ground at their transmitter site (been there for several years).

In a word - economics. Are there enough advetising dollars in the Akron/Canton area to warrent a seperate network affilliate? There used to be an ABC affilliate in Akron, why did the owners of WAKR sell out to Paxon? Probably because there was too much competition from WEWS.

When WAKR first went on the air I heard that WEWS insisted that WAKR make their signal non-existant for Cuyahoga County. That is why to this day both ch 23 and 49 (the original WAKR channel for your youngsters too young to rember) are in the "shadow" of Richfield, which is 200' higher than most parts of Cuyahoga County. I could not get 23 & 49 clearly in the highest part of Seven Hills. I only now get them due south of the antenna farm in Southeastern Parma, since I got out of the "shadow". When Paxon bought Canton's 67 they moved the transmitter and now hit Cuyahoga county with a beaut of an analog signal. They should have done the same for 23. Maybe they will once it goes digital.

IIRC Youngstown used to be a "secondary market" within the Cleveland market (according to old TV guides I saw from the 60's) as Akron/Canton is today. The difference is today Youngstown is now a seperate DMA. I guess that extra distance matters.

Forget about 17 becoming a network affilliate. I'm willing to bet it now has a non-commercial status since it is a part of TBN. Same wuld be true for 49, so that leaves only 23 and 67 elligible for your new DMA.

Almost forgot about 55. WBNX identifies itself as "CLEVELAND's WB", it just happens to be licensed to Akron, just as WUAB is licensed to Lorain and WOIO is licensed to Shaker Hts. BTW: Ironically WBNX's stick is one of the NORTHERNMOST sticks here in the tennafarm, it's firmly planted in the Cleveland DMA.

If you want seperate network affilliates in Akron/Canton try tuning into the Youngstown affilliates and pray that Neilsen asks you to do a survey. That DMA needs all the eyeballs it can get, several years ago it lost Armstrong County PA (New Castle) to the Pittsburgh DMA despite being next door to Youngstown.

There would be enough dollars, I think, if Akron were located in Stark Co. and Canton in Tusc. That extra bit of distance would make the difference. Even had that been the case an Akron/Youngstown/Canton market may have arisen.

It's just that Akron and Canton consider themselves more linked as a community to one another than they do to Cleveland.

For all the complaints about a lack of HD programming, we've come a long way, given that ALL Division I games on TV today are in HD, including ABC, CBS, and ESPN.

I don't believe that is a true statement. A recent example of a D1 game not in HD was the Ohio State/Michigan game on ABC. Tons of complaints on the forum about that. From what I saw over the course of the season, the majority were not in HD. CBS did one SEC game a week, the Notre Dame game on NBC was in HD, and ESPN usually did one a week. ABC actually did only a few games during the season from what I saw. I wish it were true. Maybe next year.
Steve

Oh, I know today's market conditions are different - but I'm just adding up all the market allocations that would be in the hypothetical Akron/Canton market.

BTW, WDLI/17 is a commercial license. TBN never changed the FCC designation:


And of course, both 17 and 67 used to be locally-programmed commercial stations, back in the day. In my "market from scratch" list, only 49 is a non-comm. 17, 23, 55 and 67 are commercial. Then, of course, there are LPTVers in both Akron and Canton - WAOH/29 in Akron and WIVM/52 in Canton - both operating as commercial independents.

No, as stated in BOTH directions, the problem is Akron/Canton's proximity to Cleveland. There'd certainly be enough for a low-top-100 TV market here, more than Youngstown/Warren at any rate, and at the time such a market could have been "created", Youngstown/Warren AND Akron/Canton were in better economic shape - especially Y-Town.

Simply put, if the Akron/Canton market *started* at, say, just south of downtown Canton, and the southern end was past Dover/New Philadelphia, it'd probably be its own standalone market. But with full-power Cleveland stations being closer to some of the Akron suburbs than they are to some of the Cleveland suburbs, it just would never have happened.

And without that proximity to Cleveland, stations like WAKR-to-WAKC/23 wouldn't have been competing with Cleveland for TV advertising dollars.

I find it interesting that Dover/New Philadelphia are counted in Cleveland's DMA when you can get a much better signal from Wheeling/Steubenville and even occasionally Columbus than Cleveland in many areas down there.

I really wish FOX would present MLB on Saturdays in HD. Hope that's coming soon.

I really wish FOX would present MLB on Saturdays in HD. Hope that's coming soon.

When they start showing other than BoSox and Yankees games, then I'll care... It'll be interesting to see if the world champion Chicago White Sox get more national air time next year from the likes of Fox and ESPN, or if the Boston/New York broadcast conspiracy will continue.

I don't believe that is a true statement.

I believe the original poster meant that all of the games this past Saturday were in HD. I don't think anybody would believe that all of the games on every channel all season long were in HD.

I live about 35 to 40 miles south from stations in the Cleveland area. Just recently got the Sony 42" A10 hdtv and the Directv R-10/ DVR combo. I have an old rat-shack antenna and pre-amp (about 20 yrs. old) mounted on a 30' tower with a rotor. Pleased with the HD pics fom channels : vhf 3.1,5.1 uhf 19.1,43.1,50.2. I would like to get a new UHF/VHF antenna with a pre-amp if neccesary and all new coax and rotor wires.
I looked at the following: CM 3679 UHF/VHF combo with the CM 7777 Titan 2 pre-amp, CM 9521A rotor. Reading that some stations may move to VHF in the future, is one reason that I would prefer a UHF/VHF combo. Zip code is 44646. Antennaweb.org has antenna type violet for the 19.1 vhf at 39 miles and UHF channel 41 at 47.2 miles for the stations most distant.

Any suggestions if I should get the above combo?

I believe the original poster meant that all of the games this past Saturday were in HD. I don't think anybody would believe that all of the games on every channel all season long were in HD.

My apologies to the original poster. I think I must have somehow interpreted "today" in a broader sense. Makes perfect sense now that I reread his post.

I'm buying a TV for my parents for Christmas. They have digital cable now, but I'm thinking of an analog vs. digital connection since it'll be used primarily in a bedroom when one of them can't sleep during the night. My question is can I split a line off their current connections and run it to the TV without using a set top box? Any info will be greatly appreciated.

I'm buying a TV for my parents for Christmas. They have digital cable now, but I'm thinking of an analog vs. digital connection since it'll be used primarily in a bedroom when one of them can't sleep during the night. My question is can I split a line off their current connections and run it to the TV without using a set top box? Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Sure, you basically have two options:
Option 1. Split the cable somewhere before it goes into the cable box, and run a cable to the new TV. New TV will be able to watch any of the analog channels (roughly channels 1 to 87) New TV will not be able to see any of the digital cable channels (unless it is CableCard equipped, and that's another story). If the new TV is an HD set and has QAM tuner capability, you should be able to see the free major TV networks that Comcast carries in HD.

Option 2. Split the cable connection between your cable box and the existing TV, then tune the new TV to channel 3 or 4. The new TV will only be able to watch whatever the person is watching on the cable box.

I find it interesting that Dover/New Philadelphia are counted in Cleveland's DMA when you can get a much better signal from Wheeling/Steubenville and even occasionally Columbus than Cleveland in many areas down there.

At least one of the local radio stations in that region - Dover/New Philly - features the "Storm Team 9 Forecast" from Steubenville's WTOV/9.

We'll see more of Indians next year
Deal adds cable, 'free' TV telecasts
Tuesday, December 06, 2005
Roger Brown
Plain Dealer Reporter
The Indians will soon announce they've signed new TV deals with WKYC Channel 3 and Time Warner Cable -- a package creating a team-run regional sports network that will show most game telecasts, beginning this season.

The Indians' TV package will likely see 130 games on the new regional sports network carried on Time Warner cable outlets throughout Northeast Ohio.

Meanwhile, WKYC will air 20 or so games, primarily on weekends. It will mark the first time since 2001 -- when WUAB Channel 43 last aired Indians games -- that a "free TV" station will have local telecast rights.

"We're working on it and we should have something shortly," said Dennis Lehman, the Indians' vice president for business.

The Indians' new deal ends their 16-season partnership with cable network FSN Ohio, which had been the sole local TV home since 2002.

With their new regional network, the Indians reportedly expect to double the estimated $16.5 million they received each year from FSN Ohio.

The Indians are also following the lead of some 30 major-league teams — in various sports — who want maximum revenue and exposure from their TV rights, said Lee H. Berke, a Shaker Heights native and president of LHB Sports, Entertainment & Media, Inc., based in Scarsdale, N.Y.

Berke, whose company helped the New York Yankees put together their highly successful YES Network in March 2002 — a regional sports outlet now valued at an estimated $1.1 billion — said the Indians' network should be a "win-win-win arrangement" for Time Warner, the Indians and Indians fans.

Berke says Time Warner, which will soon assume control of area Adelphia Cable outlets, "gets to make a substantial splash in Northeast Ohio" by carrying the Indians network, and attracting thousands of new subscribers.

"Throughout the country, regional sports networks drive traffic to the [cable TV] outlets that carry them," Berke said.


Berke said he and most industry analysts expect Time Warner to offer the Indians network to subscribers as part of their basic cable service, without an additional fee being charged — and to also work out distribution deals with major satellite companies DirecTV and Dish Network.

"That's clearly how the [regional sports networks] that have been successful have been handled," Berke said. "it's in Time Warner's best interest, and the Indians, to get the most eyeballs possible watching the network." Berke said the club will not only draw huge financial returns from their new network, but have total control over a powerful promotional tool that can focus attention on the team year-round.

"They can develop their own TV programs about everyone and everything, whether it's [manager Eric Wedge] or players or their farm teams or upcoming promotions," Berke said. "They now have much more control over how they're presented."


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As for fans, Berke said they "now have a chance to see a substantial amount of new programming about their team. If you're a die-hard Indians fan, there's no way you can't be excited about the expanded coverage you'll get."

Still, the Indians' foray isn't without risk. Teams which have struggled to launch their own networks include baseball's Minnesota Twins and Houston Astros and the NBA's Charlotte Bobcats, Portland Trail Blazers and Houston Rockets.

Although the opportunity for increased revenue drives interest in the new network, it isn't expected to affect the team's current off-season plans.

"I'm the wrong guy to ask," General Manager Mark Shapiro said Monday to questions about the deal's impact.

"[Team President] Paul Dolan is the person to talk to. At this moment, my budget hasn't changed over the last few weeks. Paul and I talk every couple of days. I know our parameters. I know the players we can't afford to get involved with."

Staff writer Paul Hoynes contributed to this report.

At least one of the local radio stations in that region - Dover/New Philly - features the "Storm Team 9 Forecast" from Steubenville's WTOV/9.

I was the one to post about Akron/Canton's lack of it's own DMA-and now here's another interesting point.

Back in 1953, what made the networks and/or private station owners decide that it made more sense to put a station in tiny Steubenville and slightly larger Wheeling than in Akron and/or Canton (well WAKR WAS opened in Akron, to be fair) which were both MUCH larger potential markets? Can't they get Pittsburgh stations rather easily there??

I was the one to post about Akron/Canton's lack of it's own DMA-and now here's another interesting point.

Back in 1953, what made the networks and/or private station owners decide that it made more sense to put a station in tiny Steubenville and slightly larger Wheeling than in Akron and/or Canton (well WAKR WAS opened in Akron, to be fair) which were both MUCH larger potential markets? Can't they get Pittsburgh stations rather easily there??
I used to go camping in the Leesville Lake area outside Dover/New Philly. They got their ABC from Pittsburgh, the CBS from Steubenville, and NBC from Wheeling IIRC. So that made 3 stations for 3 different states serving the area. We picked the stations up OTA on a small portable TV with no problem.

I have since learned that WTAE-4 out of Pittsburgh located their transmitter in a different area than the rest of the Pittsburgh stations becuase at one time they were the only ABC for 3 DMA's: Pittsburgh, Wheeling/Steubenville, and Johnstown/Altoona (the last DMA finally got their own ABC in the late 80's).

Tusc. County could switch to the Wheeling/Steubenville DMA with no problem, Neilsen just has to find enough viewers in that county to make the switch. It probably won't happen anymore, thanks to cable and now satellite penetration from Cleveland.

Thanks for the information. I thought it would work that way. But better safe than sorry

We'll see more of Indians next year
Deal adds cable, 'free' TV telecasts
Tuesday, December 06, 2005
Roger Brown
Plain Dealer Reporter
The Indians will soon announce they've signed new TV deals with WKYC Channel 3 and Time Warner Cable -- a package creating a team-run regional sports network that will show most game telecasts, beginning this season.

The Indians' TV package will likely see 130 games on the new regional sports network carried on Time Warner cable outlets throughout Northeast Ohio.

Meanwhile, WKYC will air 20 or so games, primarily on weekends. It will mark the first time since 2001 -- when WUAB Channel 43 last aired Indians games -- that a "free TV" station will have local telecast rights.

"We're working on it and we should have something shortly," said Dennis Lehman, the Indians' vice president for business.

The Indians' new deal ends their 16-season partnership with cable network FSN Ohio, which had been the sole local TV home since 2002.

.


Well, this sounds good. It also doesn't sound like a done deal yet.

One question....just a small one really.....Did I miss the mention of HD in this?
I know we talk off topic and this is certainly a topic I don't mind discussing but I would have like to have heard some details about more HD broadcasts.

Re the Indians deal -- I'm a Wide Open West cable customer -- I wonder if this new TWC Indians network is going to play nice and make a deal with the other cablecos in the region... or will they force me to switch to the only other cable provider in my area -- Adelphia (soon to be TWC) -- if I want to watch Indians games?

Also note nothing was said at all about games in HD...

In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?
Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?
If not, it does not seem fair

In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?
Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?
If not, it does not seem fair

If you read the press release it says they plan on making deals with the satellite companies. What I'm worried about is if they will make deals with competing cable companies that service the same area Adelphia/TWC covers.

I would think they'd want to get the games out to as many people as possible regardless of the cable provider because it's more viewers, thus more advertising dollars for them.

Edit: Just doing a little research here, and a similar thing happened in Chicago. Comcast Sports Net took over a large portion of Cubs and White Sox games. The good news is it appears CSN is carried on their competitor's cable networks, RCN and Wide Open West, so hopefully TWC follows the same business model.

In Philly Comcast broadcasts basketball games and satellite is not able to offer comcast channel

Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?


Should be fixed.

Anyone else notice that on WEAO 50-1 & 50-2 are labeled as "WEAO" while 50-3 & 50-4 are labeled as "WNEO" ?


Should be fixed.

It seems to be fixed today

If you read the press release it says they plan on making deals with the satellite companies. What I'm worried about is if they will make deals with competing cable companies that service the same area Adelphia/TWC covers.

I would think they'd want to get the games out to as many people as possible regardless of the cable provider because it's more viewers, thus more advertising dollars for them.

Edit: Just doing a little research here, and a similar thing happened in Chicago. Comcast Sports Net took over a large portion of Cubs and White Sox games. The good news is it appears CSN is carried on their competitor's cable networks, RCN and Wide Open West, so hopefully TWC follows the same business model.

Sorry for the non-HD post. I guess I went off-topic without realizing it due to all the sports-talk. I know in some other markets regional networks including YES, Comcast, FSN broadcast games in HD. As of now no Cleveland-area HD broadcasts on FSN. Hopefully this new "Indians" Network will have at least a few games in HD. Channel 3 too, although I'm usually disappointed with their local broadcasting--that "stretch" is real annoying.

One of the main business reasons TWC would start a network is so they can charge the competing cable companies and satellite companies to carry the network. The Indians have very high demand so, similar to the YES/Cablevision conflict a couple years ago, something will have to be negotiated.

Ok, so I've got D* and live in Medina. I've got a 120" Rat-Shack antenna over my garage that pulls in just about everything extremely reliably OTA with high signal strength except for two problem stations: WKYC and WOIO. I know, I know; no surprises there since these are the low VHF stations.

But WKYC actually comes in at about 90%. It's fairly rock solid other than the occassional dropout and the unlistenable DD 5.1 because of the dropouts. Yes, I would like it to be better, but I seriously doubt that I can get it better.

It's channel 19 that drives me nuts. In the two years I've had this setup, I've never been able to watch WOIO for more than 30 seconds at a time on seemingly random days. When it comes in, it comes in at about 95%. But when I can't get it (which is about 95% of the time), the signal strength is only about 5% and won't lock on.

I originally thought it was a mutipath problem. I do get some ghosting on the analog channel. But I've moved the antenna around as much as I can, and it's not helping. Again, everything else is coming in very well.

It seems like it comes in sometimes during a sunny day, but it's been on and off in all kinds of weather conditions both day and night. So I can't isolate any particular cause as to why there is such a drastic shift in strength.

Does anyone know of anything easy I can try? And calling the antenna service that's been mentioned before, while I'm sure would fix it, is not an option for me. I'm not going to spend money for somebody to do it when all but one channel already comes in. I was hoping maybe somebody knew of some magical device from Radio Shack that I could plug into the coax run that would filter out multipath on VHF channel 10. :p

Doesn't WOIO share a stick with channel 43? Or am I imagining that? Channel 43 comes in at darn-near 100%.

And... the biggest question. Does anyone have any info as to when D* is rolling out the HD locals for Cleveland? The press release from November said they would have 36 markets covered by early 2006. Considering we're the #16 DMA, I would assume that we're coming up quickly.

I need to know if I need to start saving my pennies for the HD-TiVO with MPEG-4.... :o

Thanks, everybody.

Ive heard sometime early in 06.....but note that the HD DVR is NOT Tivo based. The new HD DVR is rumored to be out in mid-06 think springtime. Thats the latest rumor thats going around.

Re: the new Indians network - it will likely be available everywhere (maybe even on WOW?). But don't expect HD in year one. (I could be wrong.) It may happen, though, because a cable company that sells HD services is running the show.

I read this somewhere else, and am worried about how they'll handle this network (SD or HD) on the soon-to-be-absorbed Adelphia. If the TWC - Adelphia deal isn't done by the time the Indians start, I hope they figure out where to put it on the Adelphia system.

There is no magic bullet. You might try a 177" antenna. Sometimes a faulty connector, connector wire connection, cables mixed up will show up on a sweep generator as a nice notch and if it happens at the channel 19 frequency so be it. If a ground braid is gapped on one side of the connector you will get a notch. That's why serious people use a soldered center conductor with hand hydralic crimped ground braids. The braid must be placed evenly around the connector or you will get a notch. Anything that's loose you will get inconsistant readings. Quad braid RG-6 is considered pretty much junk by serious people but affording the good stuff and connectors can be a problem. Avoid anything that's quick crimp. Shorten the lead-in as short as possible. If you have a long lead-in Styroflex is the way to go, almost no loss at 900 megs. It's actually miniture hardline and gold flashed internally. If you have bucks then get a $150,000.00 Parametric amp just for that channel. (noise figure of 1.8 db) The noise figure of your TV front end is about 3.5 to 4.0 db. Pre-amps and amps most of the time will do you no good as their noise figure is around 6 db and they will actually make things worse. I garauntee you will pick up the channel even if the transmitter is shut off, well just funnin a bit.

JJK

Wow. Thanks, I guess. I'm not sure of exactly what you said, but I think it had something to do with either using a really expensive cable or buying my own cable system. :p

But, seriously, the coax run I've got is RG-6, I believe (it's been a couple of years, and I'm not a wiring tech kind of guy). The total run is about 60 feet or so from the attick over my garage, down the wall of the garage into the basement, and then across the ceililng of the basement and up behind the ground-floor TV. The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?

On a related note, does anyone know of a good place to get a diplexer that would work in conjunction with the multitap for the DirecTV wire that would allow me to run both the antenna feed and the D* feed on the same wire? Eventually I'd like to go HD upstairs in the bedroom, and running a second cable is not an option.

Thanks again!

Anyone notice that WJW Fox 8 was making a big deal about a "high tech" truck they had called "Ground Fox" last week? I guess the big deal about it was it had an HD camera. Well, I saw them use it a few times and the pq while that thing was moving was horrible.

I've noticed this week not a word has been mentioned about "Ground Fox". Maybe it decided to hibernate for the winter?

Wow. Thanks, I guess. I'm not sure of exactly what you said, but I think it had something to do with either using a really expensive cable or buying my own cable system. :p

But, seriously, the coax run I've got is RG-6, I believe (it's been a couple of years, and I'm not a wiring tech kind of guy). The total run is about 60 feet or so from the attick over my garage, down the wall of the garage into the basement, and then across the ceililng of the basement and up behind the ground-floor TV. The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?

On a related note, does anyone know of a good place to get a diplexer that would work in conjunction with the multitap for the DirecTV wire that would allow me to run both the antenna feed and the D* feed on the same wire? Eventually I'd like to go HD upstairs in the bedroom, and running a second cable is not an option.



Thanks again!

From what I've read, the diplexer would be a short term solution. Diplexers will not work with D*'s MPEG4 architecture. Believe I've read that the complete transition to MPEG4 will complete in the next few years. Cleveland will begin transition some time next year. To get D* HD for locals or new national HD channels you will have to have the MPEG4 dish/receiver (i.e., no diplexers).

The cable, which might have actually been a hundred-foot roll, is definitely too long for the run. The extra is kind of looped around in the basement. Could this be causing my problem?


Yes, it could be. Extra cable length is extra loss. RG-6 cable is quite lossy at UHF where most of the HD signals are. You could gain as much as 5 dB by shortening your cable by 40 ft. This is probably more than you'd gain by going to a more expensive antenna. Shorten the cable!

Anyone notice that WJW Fox 8 was making a big deal about a "high tech" truck they had called "Ground Fox" last week? I guess the big deal about it was it had an HD camera. Well, I saw them use it a few times and the pq while that thing was moving was horrible.

I've got a screen cap of it somewhere.

On the laptop, it's quite apparent that like FOX 8's other remote live camera shots, it's 16:9 SD.

I've got a screen cap of it somewhere.

On the laptop, it's quite apparent that like FOX 8's other remote live camera shots, it's 16:9 SD.

Really! Well how come they were making such a big deal about it? That would make it, ah....let me see....a news truck!

By all means, shorten the cable. Or replace it with a new one. You will actually see the difference. The larger antenna may get you another couple db. The splitters will also knock the signal down about 3db at 900 megs if they are good. So don't put too many in the system. Diplexers will also have losses depending on how expensive they are.

JJK

"Ground FOX's" main claim to fame is the fact that you can see live video while it's moving. Other ENG news trucks have to be standing still to aim it's terrestrial microwave antenna at the receive point (which is probably not at the station but more than likely one of the tall buildings on Public Square).

It probably uses the same technology that the news helicopters use, just on the ground, which makes it harder to maintain a constant lock due to ground clutter. Every time I've seen ground FOX it was either on W14th or the Jennings Freeway, which tells me the range is limited (i.e. the truck has to be in eyeshot of the top of the Terminal Tower). Until I see Ground FOX live from the outer regons of the metro area I'm not impressed. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" :D

It is HD? probably not, just "stretch-o-vision".

Doesn't WOIO share a stick with channel 43? Or am I imagining that? Channel 43 comes in at darn-near 100%.
. WUAB's tower was built years before WOIO went on the air, also when WOIO first went on the air they were not owned or operated by the same company (nor could they be before the FCC rules changed). As a matter of fact WUAB fought to keep anybody from operating on ch-19, at the time WUAB went on the air UHF frequencies were hard to receive and the lower channels had a big advantage (which is why the original ch 61 WKBF went dark not long after WUAB first signed on).

WUAB's tower and WOIO's tower are seperate structures. WUAB is on State Rd. behind Padua High and just a little bit north of WEWS, while WOIO is in the "West Creek Preserve" (formerly the Parma City Dump - no joke!) on Ridgewood Dr. WOIO is between WKYC which is on Broadview Rd. at the top of the hill after the Ridgewood intersection, and WBNX (which also is the home to just about every LPTV antenna in town). Also in the Ridgewood neighborhood is WQHS-61. WBNX and WQHS is on the Camp Corde property which is behind Parmadale.

My back yard is lit by all the Ridgewood sticks :).

It is HD? probably not, just "stretch-o-vision".

No, as noted above, it's 16:9 SD. Pretty much any recent vintage SD professional camera can flip between 4:3 and 16:9 easily. It's the same thing they do on the live shots. It's not stretched, just not in HD.

And you're probably right on the technology. I haven't seen the thing go more than 5 miles from downtown...

Re: the new Indians network - it will likely be available everywhere (maybe even on WOW?). But don't expect HD in year one. (I could be wrong.) It may happen, though, because a cable company that sells HD services is running the show.

I read this somewhere else, and am worried about how they'll handle this network (SD or HD) on the soon-to-be-absorbed Adelphia. If the TWC - Adelphia deal isn't done by the time the Indians start, I hope they figure out where to put it on the Adelphia system.

even on dish network?? by the start of the season? usually dish network is hard to deal with, I hope we have it as that really blows for me!

Are either WVIZ-DT or WEAO-TV currently transmitting HDTV programming from PBS?

even on dish network?? by the start of the season? usually dish network is hard to deal with, I hope we have it as that really blows for me!

They should be able to do it, somehow. The Washington Nationals' new "MASN" network landed on Dish Network shortly after they announced it, before the season. I believe Dish ended up dedicating a channel for it, even though MASN only runs the ballgames.

IIRC, it didn't take long. If they announce this thing tomorrow, they'll have about 5 months to figure it out.

Are either WVIZ-DT or WEAO-TV currently transmitting HDTV programming from PBS?

WVIZ-DT is transmitting PBS on HD, but I'm not sure how good the OTA reception is. I get it through Adelphia. :)

OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?

Also, does using the subchannel mean that they can only broadcast in SDTV not HDTV? And if they use a subchannel sometimes does that mean they must do so at all times?

OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?



I think the answer to that question is probably something Inundated would know for sure, but just based on the question itself if it was possible they probably wouldn't do it because it would require more money. Your actually asking for a separate newscast for Akron. It doesn't sound feasable to me.

TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.

JJK

In my post I specifically talked about THAT DATE (the championship weekend games). I didn't mention earlier weeks.

I don't believe that is a true statement. A recent example of a D1 game not in HD was the Ohio State/Michigan game on ABC. Tons of complaints on the forum about that. From what I saw over the course of the season, the majority were not in HD. CBS did one SEC game a week, the Notre Dame game on NBC was in HD, and ESPN usually did one a week. ABC actually did only a few games during the season from what I saw. I wish it were true. Maybe next year.
Steve

(I hate when the email notification doesn't come through!)

Another article I read indicated that the plan is to quickly sign deals with satellite and other cable systems. However, ask the NY people about YES on Dish (it isn't there!), so we'll see.

Of course, we still haven't gotten official notification, so maybe they're working on those deals now.

Also, see the article below, related to the Adelphia sale:

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/13374243.htm


In regards to TWC broadcasting Indians games, where does Satellite fit into the picture?
Will servicec be available on Direct TV and Dish?
If not, it does not seem fair

The potential big problem with the yet to be finalized new Indians television deal is the fact that the Cavaliers will still be on Fox Sports Ohio unitl 2007-2008. Some of the satellite/cable companies may not want to pay for two Regional Sports Networks in a single market.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/business/13374243.htm[/url]

The FCC ought to concern itself with broadcast and needs to keep it's nose out of cable/satallite business (IMHO)

The potential big problem with the yet to be finalized new Indians television deal is the fact that the Cavaliers will still be on Fox Sports Ohio unitl 2007-2008. Some of the satellite/cable companies may not want to pay for two Regional Sports Networks in a single market.

Are you saying this because of inside knowledge, something you read, or is it simply your opinion?

Further, if they go to "a la carte" programing it would probably in their interest to carry as much as possible. That's IMHO. :)

OK, here's some questions. Each digital channel has 4 subchannels, is that right? So, regarding my earlier post about the lack of local Akron/Canton news coverage on Cleveland stations since we lack our own DMA, couldn't one of the big Cleveland stations use one of their subchannels to broadcast an Akron/Canton area newscast?

Also, does using the subchannel mean that they can only broadcast in SDTV not HDTV? And if they use a subchannel sometimes does that mean they must do so at all times?
The number of subchannels is not limited to 4, however the more that are transmitted the less bandwidth per channel is used. Watch 43-2 for an example (even though the only have the main channel plus one subchannel, they devote so little bandwidth to the one subchannel that the result is awful). One transponder on a DBS satellite is the same bandwidth as a single TV channel (6 MHz). The DBS providers have been able to squeeze up to 12 channels by allocating different amounts of bandwidth at a moment's notice using "Stat-mux" technology. The problem happens when too many channels have fast action at the same time (the more movement on the screen the more bandwidth is needed to avoid pixillation).

As for the HD vs SD at the same time question, WKYC runs Weather Plus 24 - 7 wheather there is an HD program on or not. Weather plus looks good because there is no rapid movement on the screen. If a sporting event was on the subchannel you would see plenty of artifacts.

Are you saying this because of inside knowledge, something you read, or is it simply your opinion?

Further, if they go to "a la carte" programing it would probably in their interest to carry as much as possible. That's IMHO. :)

I do not have any inside knowledge. In reading other forums especially for the satellite providers, there have been posts from folks in other markets where satellite providers have only carried one Regional Sports Network for a market and therefore they were missing televised games from one of there sports teams i.e., baseball, basketball, hockey. I was just throwing out the possibility that this could happen in Cleveland that is why I used the word "potential".

Some thoughts:

* The new Indians channel, whatever it is, will likely be available everywhere, including on DirecTV and Dish Network and on non-Time Warner cable systems. It's in the Indians' best interest to make it available. If the channel itself does not come to fruition this year, and it's only TWC carrying the games on its own position 23, then they'll likely still make the games alone available to cable and satellite providers.

* Unlike that scenario, the WKYC/TWC deal for its Akron/Canton News is heavily weighted for Time Warner. They want to use it as a draw for people to sign up for cable. So, don't expect that newscast to leave the TWC universe...even on a WKYC subchannel. (They could, theoretically, air it on the Weather Plus feed, but that's supposed to be a 24/7 weather feed anyway.)

* Don't worry about the "they won't carry two RSNs" problem in this case.

I've not heard of an Indians TV deal. Are the Indians going to be broadcast on an OTA channel? That would be so awesome.

It hasn't been officially announced, although even the Indians website has an article about it. Only a limited number of games (the number used was 20) will be on WKYC. The remaining games will be on a new cable station run by Time Warner Cable.

I've not heard of an Indians TV deal. Are the Indians going to be broadcast on an OTA channel? That would be so awesome.

They should be able to do it, somehow. The Washington Nationals' new "MASN" network landed on Dish Network shortly after they announced it, before the season. I believe Dish ended up dedicating a channel for it, even though MASN only runs the ballgames.

IIRC, it didn't take long. If they announce this thing tomorrow, they'll have about 5 months to figure it out.

MASN was on Directv and not Dish, BTW.

TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.

JJK

The transmitter is in Fairlawn. I get 50-2,-3,-4 perfectly. My only problem is with the Guide. On my HR10-250 since I bought it is that the guide says "Regular Programming". I've spoken to Engineering at WEAO and Level II tech support at DirecTV, neither knows why or how to correct it. A real pain the rear, since I NEED guide data for my DVR to be useful.

MASN was on Directv and not Dish, BTW.

I could have sworn it eventually ended up on both.

The Indians situation doesn't seem as screwed up as what the Nationals went through, and I'm sure the Indians games will land on both satellite carriers.

thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network, :(

thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network, :(

Well, switch to Direct TV. Or cable (I'd stay with DTV). Your not really "stuck" with anything. Unless your like me and can't get satellite because of trees. :)

thats what I am scared is going to happen to this new indians channel, that Dish wont pick it up, charlie (guy who runs dish network) is very hesitant to pick up new channels sometimes, especially when it comes to him paying for them and do we think he really wants a whole bunch of cleveland channels taking up his bandwidth? I dont think so, I see Directv getting it because they are putting up new satellites, but not dish network, :(
The only way "E*" will get this new Indians channel is if FSN Ohio were to lower the fee they currently charge E* since they no longer have the Indians. We need to get both due to the Cavs still being on FSNO. New Yorkers get 2 on E* (when they need to get 3) FSN NY and MSG, YES is missing on E*.

(for those of you who may not have been to the satellite boards, E* is Dish Network's abbreviation on the satellite boards, "D*" = DirecTv)

My parents are planning on getting an HDTV in the next couple of weeks and they live in the Akron area. They will be using TWC as their service provider (as they are already customers). Can someone give me a brief summary of any issues I should be aware of in this region?

My response for anyone asking of the Cincinnati area would be:

TWC Cinci does not carry the WB as it is a sinclair station, WCPO (ABC) has a major resolution problem as they are broadcasting at 1280x360, the only stations that broadcast 5.1 sound in Cincinnati are PBS and FOX. WCPO (ABC) will be upgrading their equipment in Q1 of 2006 which should fix the resolution problem and they are currently working on getting their 5.1 sound fixed.

I thank you for your time in advance.

Well, among other things here:

* We have no WB in HD (or any digital here), as the local WB affiliate has yet to light up its digital station. There are frequency coordination problems with it (WBNX/55) and Canada. And unlike some other markets, WBNX doesn't provide even a cable-only HD feed. It's analog or nothing. No idea when it gets fixed.

* Our NBC affiliate, WKYC/3, is on a low VHF DT channel (2), and is difficult for many to receive without a pretty decent outdoor antenna. Some also have problems getting WOIO-DT (VHF DT 10), but it's not nearly as difficult as WKYC's digital channel.

* Most of the network affiliates are on cable here, after WOIO managed to come to an agreement with Time Warner Cable and Adelphia recently. I'm on Adelphia, and we're missing only WUAB-DT (UPN).

* I'm not 100% sure, but I believe only WKYC/NBC and WJW/FOX pass 5.1 audio. WEWS/ABC and WOIO/CBS do not, and I'm pretty sure WUAB/UPN doesn't as well (same owners as WOIO).

EDIT: I just noticed that you said they would have TWC for a cable provider.

This page (http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/products/hdtv.html) (http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/products/hdtv.html) will tell you a lot more about their HD offerings. Note that despite the lineup listing, I'm pretty sure they only feed the network stations for the local areas they're in - i.e. you'd only get the Cleveland/Akron market HD channels here, and not Toledo, Pittsburgh or Youngstown, and vice versa...

And TWC does carry WKYC, so ignore that part about OTA reception. It's just a general point for those who do use antennas.

The only way "E*" will get this new Indians channel is if FSN Ohio were to lower the fee they currently charge E* since they no longer have the Indians. We need to get both due to the Cavs still being on FSNO. New Yorkers get 2 on E* (when they need to get 3) FSN NY and MSG, YES is missing on E*.

Well, OK, I do understand...but it's pretty much been assumed that the Indians will at least TRY to get the network on both major satellite providers. If Charlie acts funny, there's not much they can do about it.

I think it was in the PD or online somewhere that I read a statement saying if you were able to see the Indians last year, you'll be able to see them this year.

Don't worry people.

I think it was in the PD or online somewhere that I read a statement saying if you were able to see the Indians last year, you'll be able to see them this year.

Don't worry people.

I guess its a waiting game now, and I really dont want to switch to directv (as much as I would love to watch my steelers play every sunday I am happy watching the browns or whoever is on as long as its football I guess) as E* is getting ready to add a ton of HD, but that is besides the point. I am content for now and if need be I will move my utlity company to the one that can provide the indians to me...now a question for you guys...Does OTA getting stronger in the winter? I am at 85-88% on all OTa channels except Wkyc which is 81-82% and its been that way since the leaves fell....but also around the same time, I changed my setup around a bit as far as my rg6 runs are concerned and took my OTA antenna ona straight fun from the attic to my 811 instead of a diplexed run....so is this great signal I am getting now going to go back to the 70's once summer hits, or whould i expect this nice strong signal all year round now that I have a direct RG6 run from antenna to reciever?

Does OTA getting stronger in the winter? I am at 85-88% on all OTa channels except Wkyc which is 81-82% and its been that way since the leaves fell....but also around the same time, I changed my setup around a bit as far as my rg6 runs are concerned and took my OTA antenna ona straight fun from the attic to my 811 instead of a diplexed run....so is this great signal I am getting now going to go back to the 70's once summer hits, or whould i expect this nice strong signal all year round now that I have a direct RG6 run from antenna to reciever?

Well, not knowing how many trees you have, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with "since the leaves fell". You most likely improved the signal by changing the run from the antenna, but having fewer obstructions between you and the transmission tower doesn't hurt either.

I know I was finally able to lock on to Dayton stations once the leaves fell from the trees just north of my house. I expect to lose most of those stations again once spring returns.

which is good enough reason for me to start cutting down trees in the spring.

stupid trees.

I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.

It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.

During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)

I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.

I WILL get them to fix this.

I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.

It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.

During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)

I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.

I WILL get them to fix this.

Well, good luck. But arn't you already on some other stations "do not accept his calls list?" :)

I want to say WOIO but it's been a while so I'm not sure.

I've finally narrowed down WEWS-DT's problem with fuzzy SD upconverting.

It ONLY happens during ABC (non-HD) programming.

During locally originated programming ("NewsChannel 5") or commercials, the upconverting is fine...aside from that annoying 14:9 stretch. On SD programming or commercials fed down the satellite from ABC, the screen is more fuzzy, and superimposed graphics are particularly affected. You can SEE the fuzzy graphics. (This is the same problem we talked about here during a recent Ohio State football game or two. One week, it was so bad, you could barely make out "MINN" for "Minnesota" on the score graphics!)

I have sent a long E-Mail to WEWS' programming department about this, and will continue to press the issue until they figure it out. I don't know enough about technical things to know this for sure, but I have this odd feeling the 14:9 upconverting is playing havoc with the satellite feed.

I WILL get them to fix this.

What is the email I will email them as well.

I was wondering if anyone can point me to a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area where I can view afew different projector setups. I was going to purchase one but really want to have a look at picture quality, ect. Currently I have a 65" Mitts ws-65869 and was thinking of replacing it with a panny ae900 or a z4. I've read all the threads and looked at all the screenshots but I really would like to see one in action before I take the plunge.

Thanks

Is it just me or did WEWS's "15 X 9" stretch grow a little bit closer to 16 X 9? I don't see the skinny black sidebars that I used to see just a few weeks ago.

I was wondering if anyone can point me to a store in the Cleveland, Ohio area where I can view afew different projector setups. I was going to purchase one but really want to have a look at picture quality, ect. Currently I have a 65" Mitts ws-65869 and was thinking of replacing it with a panny ae900 or a z4. I've read all the threads and looked at all the screenshots but I really would like to see one in action before I take the plunge.

Thanks


As far as I know any store you go to see a TV will have it blazing so I don't know how you can really look at a TV in a store and make a decision. I would suggest internet research on the model your thinking about purchasing.

All HD televisions should be calibrated, either by a professional or you can do it yourself, and the picture you would have in your home would be much darker then what you see at the stores.

INHD and HDNet both have high definition patterns you can use to tune your HD set. You can also purchase a DVD but it's my experience that the one on INHD is the easiest to use. Of course a recommended professional would be your best bet.

Well, good luck. But arn't you already on some other stations "do not accept his calls list?" :)

I want to say WOIO but it's been a while so I'm not sure.

The "19 Action News" folks would probably ignore me if they knew who I was, and what I wrote about them elsewhere. :)

And the WEWS-DT stretch has changed a little...but it's still not 16:9, and it's still causing the problems I described above. The in-house stretching of ABC programming causes the fuzzy graphics, period. I don't know if it's the odd ratio or what, but the stretching doesn't cause the same problem on their local feeds.

As far as E-Mail, I couldn't find an E-Mail address for them on their website, so I had to use their feedback form.

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what Twinsburg Adelphia is transmitting? I have been using Dish and am not happy. Read a couple of days ago that they are downrezzing all HD channels to 1280x1024 and it looks like it. :(
I don't know if Adelphia uses different bandwidth for video in different areas, that is why I am asking this from people specific to this region. There are a lot of knowledgeable posts here, thanks for any help.

bedo

FYI, there was a small ad in today's Plain Dealer from Adelphia announcing that Discovery HD will be moving to their basic HD tier and therefore will be available to all HD subscribers. (I don't remember the date, sorry!)

There isn't anything on the Adelphia Information Channel about it.

Charliefrye:
There is a place in Solon called "Audio Visions" but I think they deal with Runco stuff. They have a 2.35 x 1 setup and they also have all the 1080P stuff.

JJK

bedo:
You probably will be unhappy with Adelphia in Twinsburg as my Uncle is who has had it for abour 10 years. My Guru buddy in Sheffield Lake just switched to Dish and he said that the picture is better and the monthly bill was cut in half. He used to be in the business.

JJK

bedo:
You probably will be unhappy with Adelphia in Twinsburg as my Uncle is who has had it for abour 10 years. My Guru buddy in Sheffield Lake just switched to Dish and he said that the picture is better and the monthly bill was cut in half. He used to be in the business.

JJK


Actually as much as I dislike Adelphia I still think they have the edge in HD available programing. And they are getting close to going 100% digital on all channels.

The cost of course is another issue.

In the Cleveland DMA we're lucky that all the network affiliates are full power, even UPN and WB. There are a few LP stations around and they baffle me. One (WAKN, Channel 11, Akron) has it's transmitter only 5.4 miles away from me, but I can barely make out a picture and no sound on it. And I am on one of the highest hills in the county and get crisp-clear analog transmission of every local station and if I aim east I can get WFMJ Youngstown clear as a bell too. FYI I haven't yet made the HDTV/Digital plunge but it's in the works.

The FCCs website usually shows the -LP and -CA stations as having no transmitter height. Under the "height" section instead of a number there is a dash. Are the LP transmitters literally sitting on the ground?? Or are they on some kid's treehouse being powered by a AA battery?

In the Cleveland DMA we're lucky that all the network affiliates are full power, even UPN and WB. There are a few LP stations around and they baffle me. One (WAKN, Channel 11, Akron) has it's transmitter only 5.4 miles away from me, but I can barely make out a picture and no sound on it.

I am in the city limits of Akron (barely), and I've never, ever been able to get even a snowy picture out of LPTV 11. Are they running from a whip antenna or something? Their pattern on the FCC's website would indicate I'd at least have a shot at it, though I'm outside the blue line:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/TX1057719.gif

But they are only 3,000 watts, and it looks like their tower is now near Clinton.

The only problem locally as far as DT stations - aside from WKYC-DT's channel 2 positioning - is the fact that WBNX/WB 55 is still not on digitally at all. Neither is WVPX/PAX-i 23, but that's not a big deal. :D

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what Twinsburg Adelphia is transmitting? I have been using Dish and am not happy. Read a couple of days ago that they are downrezzing all HD channels to 1280x1024 and it looks like it. :(
I don't know if Adelphia uses different bandwidth for video in different areas, that is why I am asking this from people specific to this region. There are a lot of knowledgeable posts here, thanks for any help.

bedo

dish downrezzed 5 VOOM channels to 1240x1080i, Not all, every channel in the HD pack is untouched and they are working on restoring the vooms to full rez, also they are adding 5 more voom channels, espn2hd, and another rumored hd channel in about two weeks! there are ALOT of rumors running around about this! but again, as of right now, Dish seems to be the best option!

I am in the city limits of Akron (barely), and I've never, ever been able to get even a snowy picture out of LPTV 11. Are they running from a whip antenna or something? Their pattern on the FCC's website would indicate I'd at least have a shot at it, though I'm outside the blue line:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/TX1057719.gif

But they are only 3,000 watts, and it looks like their tower is now near Clinton.

The only problem locally as far as DT stations - aside from WKYC-DT's channel 2 positioning - is the fact that WBNX/WB 55 is still not on digitally at all. Neither is WVPX/PAX-i 23, but that's not a big deal. :D

I'd be interested in seeing what an LPTV transmitter looks like compared to a full-power one.

There is actually one show on 23 that I watch (Doc) but I don't think it's in HD anyway. I watch several on WBNX though. I hear both should be on DT by summer 2006. I guess in both cases there are Canadian station interference issues or something.

With "Ground Fox", WJW Engineering is using digital microwave with COFDM modulation. COFDM is fairly tolerant of multipath situations, which allows us to (try to) transmit from a van, on the move with omnidirectional antennas. Obviously, this whole system is not foolproof, so we're still experimenting with different equipment, manufacturers and methods that will increase reliability as well as range. Inside the vehicle, we have two SD-16x9 cameras (one for talent, another looking out the front window), and one stretched SD-4x3 camera facing backwards on the roof. Being an HD newscast, we're not terribly impressed with the pictures from these cameras - so when encoding technology gets a little more advanced, you can bet that we'll switch to HD cameras.

Being an HD newscast, we're not terribly impressed with the pictures from these cameras - so when encoding technology gets a little more advanced, you can bet that we'll switch to HD cameras.

Good to hear!

On a local media-related blog, I saw an article that linked to an industry website with an interview with you guys (was it you?). The upshot is that it sounded like WJW is anxious to add in more HD than just the studio cams, including on SkyFox, in other production and news cameras and the like...but it sounded like you guys are once again waiting for technology to catch up in some cases!

You're right...compared to the rest of your newscast (even in SD viewing), it's not the same. I give it a pass for now, since it's something different...but I'd like to see it upgraded, too, at some point down the road a piece.

And thanks for your contribution here.

I'd be interested in seeing what an LPTV transmitter looks like compared to a full-power one.

Probably not much different...everything's solid state now. Maybe a little smaller. :D


There is actually one show on 23 that I watch (Doc) but I don't think it's in HD anyway. I watch several on WBNX though. I hear both should be on DT by summer 2006. I guess in both cases there are Canadian station interference issues or something.

You're correct on both. We've heard rumors back and forth about WBNX, in particular, with some of our regulars on this thread being told earlier this year that they were aiming to be up by this fall TV season. Of course, that never happened. It sounds like WB55 is hoping to be ready with sending out WB in HD whenever they manage to light up the DT stick, though.

I haven't heard anything new on WVPX, though.

Both stations are, at this point, STILL waiting for the FCC to grant even the construction permit needed to start going on the air with their DT signals. I just checked the FCC database, and nothing. WBNX, in particular, has been waiting for the FCC to get off their...uh...you know what...and deal with an application they modified over a year ago to address the Canadian interference concerns.

As for "PAX 23" (or i or whatever they call it now), the network as a rule does not do HDTV at all. Their stations all broadcast multiple SD streams, including time delayed feeds of the main network, and their "Worship" 24/7 religious feed. When PAX changed its name to "i", they said the traditional PAX TV programming would migrate off the main channel to one of those feeds. The company's status is always in flux, though, so who knows if it'll actually happen?

The only thing I ever watched on WVPX was the old "PAX 23 News", which moved over to TWC 23 anyway...

Is WJW FOX 8 still at low power? I read posts a few weeks ago that they were having problems with the transmitter and are awaiting parts. I get all local channels in with a strong signal here in Solon except Fox 8 which is around 60% or less. Before adjusting my roof antenna, I thought someone here might know the answer.

I'm a newb. Can someone explain the phrase "However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment"

I'm in Cuyahoga Falls and used to get 50.1 perfectly. Since they added 50.3 and 50.4 I've only gotten a blank screen. I thought they swapped 50.1 for 50.3 & 50.4 due to bandwith issues or something. That would have been a bad trade IMO.

Thanks


PS to everyone down here - I must be a freak or something, but most of the time I get 3.1 and 3.2 perfectly with a set-top antenna in a 2nd floor window -- and I'm at the lowest spot on my street.



TLaz: WEAO is transmitting OTA from the Akron area 50.1, 50.2, 50.3, 50.4. However 50.1 (HD) is just carrier at the moment. Sometimes they come in just fine and sometimes not. Right now I would estimate that the "good signal" times would be in the 40% range. If digital is fading it is unwatchable as compared to analog. I live in Twinsburg on fairly high ground with 177" antenna pointed at Cleveland. All of the other stations come in fine with the exception of the four channels on 17 which are in and out.

JJK

Probably not much different...everything's solid state now. Maybe a little smaller. :D



You're correct on both. We've heard rumors back and forth about WBNX, in particular, with some of our regulars on this thread being told earlier this year that they were aiming to be up by this fall TV season. Of course, that never happened. It sounds like WB55 is hoping to be ready with sending out WB in HD whenever they manage to light up the DT stick, though.

I haven't heard anything new on WVPX, though.

Both stations are, at this point, STILL waiting for the FCC to grant even the construction permit needed to start going on the air with their DT signals. I just checked the FCC database, and nothing. WBNX, in particular, has been waiting for the FCC to get off their...uh...you know what...and deal with an application they modified over a year ago to address the Canadian interference concerns.

As for "PAX 23" (or i or whatever they call it now), the network as a rule does not do HDTV at all. Their stations all broadcast multiple SD streams, including time delayed feeds of the main network, and their "Worship" 24/7 religious feed. When PAX changed its name to "i", they said the traditional PAX TV programming would migrate off the main channel to one of those feeds. The company's status is always in flux, though, so who knows if it'll actually happen?

The only thing I ever watched on WVPX was the old "PAX 23 News", which moved over to TWC 23 anyway...

It was nice having an Akron newscast. Since I plan to dump TWC once I get an HD- television, I will no longer get to see it on the cable channel.

Here was my thought: Since WKYC produces the Akron/Canton news anyway, why not move it to one of their subchannels? Advertise it on the main station and show it on the subchannel.

pmkeating: They just aren't transmitting on 50.1 at this time. There are some threads on these previous pages explaining what is going on.

JJK

Just spoke with WEAO/WNEO. They hope to have 50.1 back on the air mid January to early February. It will only be on in prime hours 7-12. When it is on 50.3and 50.4 will disappear. They are garbage channels so they will not be missed. Reason HD content was pulled was strictly the cost that PBS wanted to charge local station to air programming.
Guide issue is also a money issue. $67,000 worth of equipment to fix. I received 49.1 and 2 and it had guide info on it
Hope this helps to clear the air. Source was engineering at the station

Here was my thought: Since WKYC produces the Akron/Canton news anyway, why not move it to one of their subchannels? Advertise it on the main station and show it on the subchannel.

Aside from confusion, I suppose the BIG reason was the reason they were able to make the deal to move it in the first place. TWC's interested in "exclusive" programming you can't get via satellite. It's the reason cable systems produce any local content at all...it is mean to drive up subscriptions. Even with the reported upcoming Indians contract with TWC, where satellite systems will likely be offered a crack at it, TWC still sees it as a subscription driver.

Even without that, there's really nowhere to put it, as their only subchannel right now is the 24/7 NBC Weather Plus feed, which they won't pre-empt.

No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.

What a bunch of bums that run these stations.

No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.

What a bunch of bums that run these stations.

WOIO-DT "woke up" and flipped Letterman to HD just moments after you posted that message.

Actually Leno switched to HD towards the end of the opening monologue last night. I didn't watch it Tuesday night though.


No HD Leno for 2 nights in a row. No HD Letterman right now.

What a bunch of bums that run these stations.

sweet so they flip it to hd AFTER i turn it off and go to sleep.

It's been rumored for a while, but WKYC/3 has officially been announced as the baseball Cleveland Indians' new over-air TV partner, with 20 of the 158 televised games on WKYC starting in 2006.

That's not the biggest news for this place:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=45157


"It is with great pleasure that I am able to announce an agreement between WKYC Channel 3, and the Cleveland Indians baseball organization to broadcast Indians baseball in 2006 and well beyond. Indians baseball is back on broadcast television once again," said WKYC President and General Manager Brooke Spectorsky. "This is really very exciting for our community. As the broadcast carrier we'll not only be bringing twenty games to Indians fans in NE Ohio in 2006, we'll be airing those games in high definition with Dolby Digital 5.1 audio," added Spectorsky. "The look and sound of those games will be spectacular."


Finally, Cleveland TV sports enters the 21st century!

No word on the other part of this deal, a team-run cable network supposedly set to land on Time Warner as the primary carrier. But as mentioned, the team will apparently offer it to the satellite providers and other cable systems outside the TWC area... we'll see if THAT end holds up, and how many HD games will be seen that way.

This is great news! I'm kind of wondering about the schedule of these games since this is a major network carrier. I'll bet they put most of them on after July starts, kind of the same strategy FOX uses.

It will be interesting to see what they do with the rest of the games.

The initial stories indicated that the WKYC games would be on the weekends.

Yes, WOIO forgot to flip the switch again last night. This time, the entire Letterman show was in SD. Anyone have a email address or phone number? I guess I don't understand what the difficulty is....

It seems that WOIO's having audio problems on their digital channel. I'm watching the local news and the anchor voices are inaudible, while the tape and remote broadcasts are fine. Frankly, I wonder if they even know it!

It's the holiday season. WOIO's operators over the next week or so are probably less experienced fill-ins.

News:
(216) 781-1900 or
(877) 929-1943

WOIO & WUAB MAIN LINE:

Phone #: (216) 771-1943 or (800) 929-0132
Fax #: (216) 515-7152

Other numbers and E-Mail here:

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