Like TV21Chief said, one tweak in configuration, for any reason, can result in problems in the end user's equipment.


I had a paramater wrong in my setup since day one. I never had a problem until last summer when it shut down my WB channel on 2 and only 2 integrated HDTV's in my viewership. THAT was a real treat to track down! :eek:

My guess is they are not banned from switching to their local content during prime time because it is not affecting ALL of their HD viewers. From the data I have seen it only affects users of the Adelphia 8300HD (SARA) DVR, one user with Fusion tuning software, and one report from a E* DVR user.

I agree with you terryfoster. The one E* user that reported a problem earlier is a friend of mine and he hasn't had any problems recording Fox-HD since that one instance so I think we can safely consider him an outlier. The Fusion user (Inundated?) has always had this problem, which would indicate nothing has recently changed at Fox-HD with respect to their splicing system.

That leaves only Adelphia. Unless Fox has indeed changed something very recently (which is doubtful), Adelphia is the only one in the chain that's changed anything that we know of (they've changed our SARA software at least twice in the past couple weeks.) I think the evidence is pretty strong that while the later SARA versions add some nice functionality (4x FF, Play from Beginning, etc), it appears to be less fault tolerant of Fox's splicing system than before. This is further bolstered by the fact that other cable providers aren't having a problem. Also, the tech that was at my house last week explicitly told me it was due to the software upgrades and that all we could do is wait for a fixed revision from Adelphia HQ.

Again I think we should all be banging on Adelphia to fix this, and requesting compensation for our troubles. Even if it isn't an Adelphia problem per se, we pay them to deliver us this content and services. They are responsible for debugging and fixing these types of problems, not us. I called once yesterday and was promised a tech would call me back. I haven't heard anything yet, but once (if?) I do I'll be sure to post my conversation.

Of course this is all pure conjecture :)

I watched a little last night and it was fine. Which audio output on your HD receiver are you using and what kind of audio system are you playing it through? The people I've seen that have that kind of problem have their system configured for 5.1 audio but only use two speakers. Since the 5.1 dialogue is meant to play through a center channel speaker they have to crank the volume up to hear anything on the right and left channel. Then when a commercial comes on in simple two channel stereo it is naturally very loud.

I use a PCI tuner in my HTPC. The HTPC audio is sent through my receiver via optical cable. Commercials do indeed, often switch over to PCM and then they get routed to jsut my 2 front's and subwoofer. I do have a center channel though. Something just seems to be wonky with the Olympic stuff, as everything else seems fine.

That leaves only Adelphia. Unless Fox has indeed changed something very recently (which is doubtful), Adelphia is the only one in the chain that's changed anything that we know of (they've changed our SARA software at least twice in the past couple weeks.) I think the evidence is pretty strong that while the later SARA versions add some nice functionality (4x FF, Play from Beginning, etc), it appears to be less fault tolerant of Fox's splicing system than before. This is further bolstered by the fact that other cable providers aren't having a problem. Also, the tech that was at my house last week explicitly told me it was due to the software upgrades and that all we could do is wait for a fixed revision from Adelphia HQ.


Two software upgrades? I'm only aware of one but two would make sense.

Do you know what dates the upgrades occurred? The only one I'm aware of was last Wednesday (I believe).

-Terry: Interesting to hear your DD didn't work, mine was fine in columbus, I moved in June all I had to do was switch the settings in the internal menu.

-I forget who it was but to the person w/ high volume on commercials: typically commercials do have a higher volume, but not that much so. If you are in 5.1 w/ a 5.1 speaker set up, is it possible that you have your surrounds at a higher volme setting then your center to highten effects in movies and such with a lot of low volume surround effects. If this is so, some 2 ch commercials especially ones for like what will be on the later news seem much louder. This can also happpen through the center if you are in neo6 or PLII. Hope this helps. Just adjust your speaker settings indiv. Typically if this is the problem you wil notice in some movies you will randomly get an explosion scene that seems 10x louder then the rest of the movie.


-Good luck getting adelphia to call you back or getting a supervisor/tech. My bill had 2 cable modems listed on it (Ihad 1) this went on for only 2 years :D I then changed from a gold to platinum package and instead of doing the upgrade they just added platnium to may accout, so I had both hurray I get to pay for HBO twice. When I called the first time I saw this on the bill I gave up on phone call 10. The next 2 months of this I called like 5 times a month, only paying what I actually owed mind you. Each time I asked for a supervisor because no one could seem to understand my problem, and each time I was not allowed to speak with one, but they were going to call me back. Should be any day now lol. (now I feel if I should have to sit on the phone w/ them for hours getting nothing accomplished and no Supp. I should be paid for my time, which is not abundant, but thats just my feeling) I finally got a government agency involved, and the problem was suposivly taken care of. Next bill comes and the credits where there and then they recharged back for 3 months to negate the credits. Finally I call back again relyy pissed, and low and behold this time they gave me a supervisor who took care of it and appolagized and offered me $40 extra in credits divided into 3 months. O and that extra modem is still on my account, but I am not being charged for it now. One of my ineffective calls somehow resulted in my showtime being switched to stars not sure how that happened. Government agency when I called and said Adelphia just laughed and said get in line. So the moral here is, good luck getting anything resulved with Adelpha, they just don't care and the initial people on the phone didn't exactly graduate gradeschool.

Two software upgrades? I'm only aware of one but two would make sense.

Do you know what dates the upgrades occurred? The only one I'm aware of was last Wednesday (I believe).

I'm working off the "Global Cfg" data under the "SARA Information" diagnostic screen that says I received a new global configuration Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM EST. Perhaps I shouldn't refer to it as an software upgrade exactly, but from http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11906 I take this to mean that Adelphia changed something on my 8300. Coincidentally or not, this is exactly when my troubles began.

Again, this is all just conjecture for the fun of it. It very well may be Fox-HD's "fault" for twiddling bits in their bitstream, who knows. However, I do know that I pay Adelphia to deliver and they're not. Whose fault it is doesn't really concern me.

I'm working off the "Global Cfg" data under the "SARA Information" diagnostic screen that says I received a new global configuration Mon Feb 6 2006, 4:21:53 PM EST. Perhaps I shouldn't refer to it as an software upgrade exactly, but from http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11906 I take this to mean that Adelphia changed something on my 8300. Coincidentally or not, this is exactly when my troubles began.

Again, this is all just conjecture for the fun of it. It very well may be Fox-HD's "fault" for twiddling bits in their bitstream, who knows. However, I do know that I pay Adelphia to deliver and they're not. Whose fault it is doesn't really concern me.

First I want to thank you for dropping that link in here. Wow, a way to understand what the heck those screens really mean. This is great.

As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.

What really annoys me is the completely dropped shows or partial recordings. I haven't had anyone, anyware in the entire AVS forum come up with an answer other then a speculation of "corrupted guide data" which I have been unable to prove.

As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.

What really annoys me is the completely dropped shows or partial recordings. I haven't had anyone, anyware in the entire AVS forum come up with an answer other then a speculation of "corrupted guide data" which I have been unable to prove.

So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:

-Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD

-WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.

-On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.

As far as Adelphia not delivering, I would say this applies to the times it has started a recording and just plain stopped X amount of minutes into the recording, or simply missed a recording all together. Yes, I understand it's annoying but they are delivering the entire content of the FOX shows. At least I've been getting them.


True, but I pay an extra fee for HD and DVR services, and I expect them to work. It would be one thing if I always got the program, just "chunked" up. Sure that'd be annoying but atleast I could watch the show. But I don't always get it that way. Often I only get a couple of short segments.

Anyway, I just called Adelphia back. They are placing the blame squarely on Fox-HD's shoulders. The CSR I talked to said she received a notice just yesterday that said Fox-HD recently modified their splicing system which was causing the hiccups. She also said they (Fox-HD) are trying to roll it back or fix it. When I asked why other people with the same box on other cable proviers (TWC for instance) aren't having a problem she said that Comcast and Cox were both having problems as well. Can anyone here with a SA8300HD and Comcast or Cox confirm or deny that?

At any rate, she still had no clue when it'd be fixed. Sigh.

I watched a little last night and it was fine. Which audio output on your HD receiver are you using and what kind of audio system are you playing it through? The people I've seen that have that kind of problem have their system configured for 5.1 audio but only use two speakers. Since the 5.1 dialogue is meant to play through a center channel speaker they have to crank the volume up to hear anything on the right and left channel. Then when a commercial comes on in simple two channel stereo it is naturally very loud.

Audio does seem to be an issue at times. The opening cerimony volume was horribly under powered and I had to turn my system to like -30 dbs to hear it. Normally, -40 to -45 would be normal listening volume for TV. Running a full 6.1 system through a Yamaha RX-V1200 in my home theater. The issue was not my setup, it was NBC. Then the commericals would blast. I changed the settings from DD to Pro-Logic and then just 2 channel stereo...it was the same...way too low volume. Some of the sessions have had acceptable volume and some have not so far. I have Dish Network HD upstairs and it was the same OTA so it wasn't Adelphia's fault in my Home Theater. Not sure what NBC's issue is, but the audio levels have been inconsistant and unacceptable. They also have had a ton of popping and clicking sounds during their broadcast as well. Not good.

So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:

-Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD

-WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.

-On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.

1. FOX 8 There is no reason to stop the recording. All you have to do is delete the small timed ones which are just commercials (run ff to make sure before you do this).

2. The cracking noise is not an Adelphia issue, this has been discussed by Inundated. It appears to be a network issues as they are discussing this in other forums.

3. Yes, the start from beginning has already discussed by ClevelandJAX.

It's always a good idea to make sure you've read a page or two when you post. That way it doesn't appear your smeaking. :)

So this past couple weeks with Adelphia have been really interesting:

-Fox 8 WJW still breaking up--24 last night was broken into 3 parts at 9:27 when I noticed and stopped the recording to record the analog broadcast instead of HD

-WKYC/NBC Olympic coverage with the constant crackling of the rear (maybe all?) speakers whenever they come back from commercials, and maybe other times. Does anyone from WKYC read this? If not, is there someplace to send comments that actually may get read.

-On the bright side (and I know this isn't the right forum), my 8300HD didn't "kick me out" of the recording last night when the "live" show being recorded ended. (Those with the machine know what I'm talking about.) Maybe that was part of the new update from Adelphia.

Last night 24 recorded in full, but in about 6 or 7 segments. NBC sound issues including the crackling sounds are NOT Adelphia as they can be heard via my Dishnetwork HD OTA signal as well. It's an NBC issue. What I'm unsure of is if it is our Local WKYC or just the feed they are getting.

True, but I pay an extra fee for HD and DVR services, and I expect them to work. It would be one thing if I always got the program, just "chunked" up. Sure that'd be annoying but atleast I could watch the show. But I don't always get it that way. Often I only get a couple of short segments.

Anyway, I just called Adelphia back. They are placing the blame squarely on Fox-HD's shoulders. The CSR I talked to said she received a notice just yesterday that said Fox-HD recently modified their splicing system which was causing the hiccups. She also said they (Fox-HD) are trying to roll it back or fix it. When I asked why other people with the same box on other cable proviers (TWC for instance) aren't having a problem she said that Comcast and Cox were both having problems as well. Can anyone here with a SA8300HD and Comcast or Cox confirm or deny that?

At any rate, she still had no clue when it'd be fixed. Sigh.

We made changes to our WJW-DT stream (9am Tuesday, 2/14) that we think may fix this problem. I'll be looking here for feedback. Again, many thanks!

We made changes to our WJW-DT stream (9am Tuesday, 2/14) that we think may fix this problem. I'll be looking here for feedback. Again, many thanks!

I'll be recording House tonight. I will have something posted by end of the evening.

Thanks for communicating what's going on to us!

Both 5.1 and 8.1 come up with a "poor signal quality" yet the meters come in at 85 to 90 on both.

I have an OTA setup. Olympics on 3.1 are coming in just fine along with all the other usual Cleveburg stations. Just 5.1 and 8.1 are "out". They were working before (couple hours maybe)

Any1 else having this issue?

Inundated, you can call your boycott off. I recorded House and it was a complete one hour recording.

WJW Engineer, thank you and your team for a job well done. :)

And everyone was so quick to blame poor old Adelphia. ha!! Innocent...this time. ;)

Both 5.1 and 8.1 come up with a "poor signal quality" yet the meters come in at 85 to 90 on both.

I have an OTA setup. Olympics on 3.1 are coming in just fine along with all the other usual Cleveburg stations. Just 5.1 and 8.1 are "out". They were working before (couple hours maybe)

Any1 else having this issue?


Nevermind. I performed a new channel scan and they are back. Who knows why they went AWOL.

Ain't technology grand. :rolleyes:

And everyone was so quick to blame poor old Adelphia. ha!! Innocent...this time. ;)

Oh believe me, they've got enough other crap on their plate they deserved every bit of it! ;)

I would be interested to know what exactly Fox-HD changed originally that caused the problem.

Thanks much WJWEngineering, seems to be working great again for me too.

Here is a copy of the message I recieved this morning from Adelphia.

Information from our technical department:


We have discovered an anomaly which affects customers who record FOX-8 primetime programming on their DVRs.

The symptom is that the DVR “splits up” a single prime-time program into many smaller “programs”

lasting 5-20 minutes each. The customer winds up with several short programs recorded on their machine instead of one contiguous show.

This appears to be triggered whenever FOX-8 switches between network programming and a local station break. They have recently made some changes to their MPEG splicing equipment and the anomaly has appeared shortly after this change was made.

At this time FOX-8 is working with their corporate engineering department to see whether their recent firmware upgrade can be rolled back to see if this resolves the problem. At the same time, our Video Ops group is investigating the anomaly from our side.

Both parties are working diligently to resolve this. We hope to have a resolution soon.

Lastly we will "get the games" when we have a contract. That is the unfortunate nature of the business.


-The Fox issue does seem to be fixed now so that is good news.

-The other comment is refering to a message I sent them about the Indians and Cavs games. This leads me to believe that somehow this company will actually let Clevelanders go w/o regular season Tribe at lease until the takeover when the FCC decides to allow it. It also leads me to believe that whatever signal was sent for the Cavs in HD through the QAM signal the other day was either A) A 1 time deal for that game that they didn't bother to patch into the gigi boxes, or B) they for some reason have the channel in place in case a contract is signed and just didn't encode the QAM signal. Does anyone have any info on this. Is the QAM signal still available? We certainly still have no channel 798 on the boxes yet.

-Thanks anyone for any insite. I can't believe that Adelphia would actually be legally allowed to not send Cleveland sports especially like the Tribe situation into cleveland homes, but hey what do I know I am just the consumer who can't switch cable companies and can't affor all the necessary equiptment to upgrad my entire house to a dish, 2 HD DVR's and a bunch more boxes. That used to be a nice alternative when Basic cable was only an additional 14 bucks a month. Those were the good old days D* and cable lol.

I'd kind of like to know what changes were made at WJW as well. I hope that it didn't mean they had to roll back their equipment to satisfy Adelphia.

Face it gang. We're all beta testers. :) There just isn't anyway anyone can roll something out and know exactly how it's going to affect everyones equipment.

Now, let's start picking on WKYC-DT for a while about that "popping" noise. I don't know if that's been fixed yet but I did have the Olympics on yesterday afternoon and I didn't notice anything.

I did notice that I really had to crank it up to hear it decently, but that seems to be true of all Dolby 5.1 on that station. WJW is a bit better, I don't need to turn that one quite as far.

Commercials during the Olympics sounded balanced to me, I do have a 5 speaker system.

I'd kind of like to know what changes were made at WJW as well. I hope that it didn't mean they had to roll back their equipment to satisfy Adelphia.

Face it gang. We're all beta testers. :) There just isn't anyway anyone can roll something out and know exactly how it's going to affect everyones equipment.

Now, let's start picking on WKYC-DT for a while about that "popping" noise. I don't know if that's been fixed yet but I did have the Olympics on yesterday afternoon and I didn't notice anything.

I did notice that I really had to crank it up to hear it decently, but that seems to be true of all Dolby 5.1 on that station. WJW is a bit better, I don't need to turn that one quite as far.

Commercials during the Olympics sounded balanced to me, I do have a 5 speaker system.

Yep the popping was there last night via OTA. Sound was still woefully low, but seemed a bit louder than it had been during the opening ceremonies. While it's true that DD 5.1 is lower volume in general and maybe especially for WKYC, I watch many shows on that station and none have been even close to as low as the Olympics have been. It isn't consistent either as some of the Olympic coverage has been louder levels than others. On a normal DD 5.1 show my Yamaha is at about -40 to -38 db's. while during the Olympics, I've had to go as low as -25 dbs!!!! And that was just to get a nice volume, not loud. I went to my DVR'd recording of ER on WKYC and at -25 dbs, it was blaringly loud and needed to be at -38 dbs. Something is obviously not right and it's not my equipment, I can guarentee.

Hook: WKYC's volume does seem worst then most, and the popping is unexceptable, but when there is no popping I find that if your speakers are tuned correctly for your room the audoio is actually very clean and sounds good. ER for example on Th nights. Isn't WKYC one of the channels that drops the 5.1 feed for commercials? If thats the case remember what your reciever is doing on a 2 ch broadcast. If you are using neo6 or PLII it is taking a 2 ch signal, with volume even on both speakers, and dividing it up to 5. It really does a great job of what comes out of each speaker, and u will find it is very clean on to 2 ch digital feed, but an analog 2 ch feed tends to be louder, it is less controlled and just like analog video the signal sucks. I personally like the lower volume cleaner signal.

A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.

Hook: WKYC's volume does seem worst then most, and the popping is unexceptable, but when there is no popping I find that if your speakers are tuned correctly for your room the audoio is actually very clean and sounds good. ER for example on Th nights. Isn't WKYC one of the channels that drops the 5.1 feed for commercials? If thats the case remember what your reciever is doing on a 2 ch broadcast. If you are using neo6 or PLII it is taking a 2 ch signal, with volume even on both speakers, and dividing it up to 5. It really does a great job of what comes out of each speaker, and u will find it is very clean on to 2 ch digital feed, but an analog 2 ch feed tends to be louder, it is less controlled and just like analog video the signal sucks. I personally like the lower volume cleaner signal.

A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.

Here is my view on audio and please note that while my information is by the set 'standards' of DD, everyone has their own tastes and it's perfectly fine to deviate from this if it sounds better to you to do so. I have a dedicated 6.1 Home Theater system with all Phase Technology speakers calibrated via Yamaha receiver, with an SPL meter to 75 dbs all around to my seating position as specified by Dolby Labs specs for DD. You are correct that the volume level should be equal but that's in Dbs with a consistant test tone, not in actual volume level for all content. Basically what I'm saying is that if you have your rears set so that everything that comes out of them is equal level to the fronts (ie the background noise you hear in a show is the same level as the fronts), you aren't really listening to it as it was intended to be and then when the rears are supposed to be louder, they will be much too loud. Not all surround sound is intended to be directly heard at all times and more often it is intended to be a more subtle sound at a lower volume than your fronts during much of a show or movie. At other times, it's suppose to be as loud or louder and so if the director of the production wants you to hear something from them directly, you'll hear it if they are properly set. With a test tone that provides a consistant level of sound, all speakers should be set equal in dbs (via your seating position) and at that point, the particular audio from a show or DVD will dictate what sound level you hear from the rears. It's sort of like whispering or yelling into a mic that's set to a constant setting. If you yell, the volume is loud and if you whisper, it's soft even though the volume setting is the same on the mic. Of course it's all personal tastes so if a person likes the rears loud & it sounds good to them, that's what you should do.

As for the Olympics, aside from the popping which is just horrible, when I do have the Olympics at -25 to -30 dbs the sound is just great. My issue is, why is the sound level so darn low compared to any other DD content set to say -40 dbs, including other shows on WKYC? That and that popping tells me that they have some sort of sound issues that at this point, they can't fix on that broadcast. I agree about the commercials that aren't in DD being much louder (non-DD content is usually much louder as it doesn't conform to a standard) however, commericals have their volume up way higher for marketing purposes as well which makes it even worse when watching DD programming. When watching the Olympics, it's a HUGE problem because with my Yamaha set to -25 dbs, when that commerical starts, I need to start diving for the remote before the room starts to shake! ha! Not good at all. So yes, it does sound good but at a good volume level, it makes the entire experience including the commericals a bad one audio wise.

A note of personal experiance, I was much happier with the audio durring my programs (you are screwed on commercials) when I turned up my rear surrounds and rear center. Remember on a 5.1 signal the rear signal is sent directly to those speakers at that volume your reciever is not sending the signal back a equal volume to the fronts. I now have great surround comming through my rears at all times (there is always some background noise in almost anything you watch) and it really makes your surround sound great when these are turned up.

I'm a bit confused on my Pioneer System which way is up and which way is down on the rear speakers. Like Dweezilz I have to crank up actually all the way to -16 dbs to get a good sound. After that it does get louder.

But on the rear speakers..I think you turn those up by + db's, correct? Or does it work the way the system works and you turn the db's negative?

Hey guys, Hooks fears may be realities for the upgrades. I just checked and now my DVR no longer has the 4th fast forward speed!!! Do you guys see the same on your boxes? Why did they take this away? That couldn't have had any connection to the Fox chunking issues, so I'm wondering why Adelphia rolled back their software! I'm bummed out because that 4th speed plus the 'play from start' option for currently recording programs were just a huge benefit. I hope they aren't gone perminantly. Ok...now I'll blame Adelphia. ha! :D

I'm a bit confused on my Pioneer System which way is up and which way is down on the rear speakers. Like Dweezilz I have to crank up actually all the way to -16 dbs to get a good sound. After that it does get louder.

But on the rear speakers..I think you turn those up by + db's, correct? Or does it work the way the system works and you turn the db's negative?

Yep on most systems, the rears are controlled by +/- db's but it's more of an add and subtract instead of a set db reading. For that you need either a SPL meter or a receiver that has a built in meter like the new Yamahas (mine doesn't have it). The built in ones are usually 'auto sets' that have a microphone that detects it for you. Doesn't usually work all that well. Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).

Yep on most systems, the rears are controlled by +/- db's but it's more of an add and subtract instead of a set db reading. For that you need either a SPL meter or a receiver that has a built in meter like the new Yamahas (mine doesn't have it). The built in ones are usually 'auto sets' that have a microphone that detects it for you. Doesn't usually work all that well. Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).

Yeah, running the sound test that's absolutely correct. I ended up decreasing my rear speakers a bit from +5 to +2.5 for a balanced sound.

The Olympic volume was a bit better last night. At least it seemed to be more in sync with the commercials. A few pops here and there, but not too bad.

Hey guys, Hooks fears may be realities for the upgrades. I just checked and now my DVR no longer has the 4th fast forward speed!!! Do you guys see the same on your boxes? Why did they take this away? That couldn't have had any connection to the Fox chunking issues, so I'm wondering why Adelphia rolled back their software! I'm bummed out because that 4th speed plus the 'play from start' option for currently recording programs were just a huge benefit. I hope they aren't gone perminantly. Ok...now I'll blame Adelphia. ha! :D

Likwise, I've been downgraded back to SARA v1.87.23.1. Sigh, I'll miss the nice features of v1.88.15.3.

I called Adelphia & they said that they are working on some more upgrades to the software and have reverted back to the old version until they are done. She didn't know a time frame but she didn't think it would be for an extended period. Hopefully they'll add some more stuff, but maybe they are just fixing some the other things that we didn't like about the update such as the menu scrolling etc...

Likwise, I've been downgraded back to SARA v1.87.23.1. Sigh, I'll miss the nice features of v1.88.15.3.

Yep, me too. I wonder when this happened, if it was before the FOX fix or after.

We probably will never know.

You guys remember that letter I got from Adelphia saying they were going to send me some movies and some other stuff. Well, it came in the mail today. They gave me 3 free movies, a 25.00 Shell gift card and a USB 2.0 flash drive which I don't know what it is. It says 64 mb, plug and play.

If anyone knows what the flash drive is for, please educate me.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you have your rears set so that everything that comes out of them is equal level to the fronts (ie the background noise you hear in a show is the same level as the fronts), you aren't really listening to it as it was intended to be and then when the rears are supposed to be louder, they will be much too loud. Not all surround sound is intended to be directly heard at all times and more often it is intended to be a more subtle sound at a lower volume than your fronts during much of a show or movie. At other times, it's suppose to be as loud or louder and so if the director of the production wants you to hear something from them directly, you'll hear it if they are properly set.

I agree, I guess I didn't explain myself very clear. I am a big advocate of surround, I won't watch w/o it anymore. My settings work for me based on room size speaker size speakers of course and even the speaker wire, and are diffrent in every room and diffrent input devices. Luckley for me I rarley watch anything not in 5.1, cds-hd and the cavs games as the exception, we really need tnthd. Anyway, I gues for me once I am set up I don't flux between analog and digital, but that was the point i was trying to get at was the diffrences in volume when the reciever is in diffrent modes. I also have Yam. equiptment 6.1 and I love their recievers far more then even the higher end equiptment such as marantz. Once you get the Yams set up, they rock.

Yep, me too. I wonder when this happened, if it was before the FOX fix or after.

We probably will never know.

You guys remember that letter I got from Adelphia saying they were going to send me some movies and some other stuff. Well, it came in the mail today. They gave me 3 free movies, a 25.00 Shell gift card and a USB 2.0 flash drive which I don't know what it is. It says 64 mb, plug and play.

If anyone knows what the flash drive is for, please educate me.

A flash drive is just a small memory card that plugs into your USB port and can be used to store files from your PC to transport to another PC. It will show up as another drive in XP while connected & you just drag and drop files.

I agree, I guess I didn't explain myself very clear. I am a big advocate of surround, I won't watch w/o it anymore. My settings work for me based on room size speaker size speakers of course and even the speaker wire, and are diffrent in every room and diffrent input devices. Luckley for me I rarley watch anything not in 5.1, cds-hd and the cavs games as the exception, we really need tnthd. Anyway, I gues for me once I am set up I don't flux between analog and digital, but that was the point i was trying to get at was the diffrences in volume when the reciever is in diffrent modes. I also have Yam. equiptment 6.1 and I love their recievers far more then even the higher end equiptment such as marantz. Once you get the Yams set up, they rock.

Yeah definately love my Yamaha too! I guess we'll have to just suffer through the Olympic sound issues. It's not too horrible, just annoying. I figured you were an advocate of DD/Surround but I just wanted to clairfy the best way to set it up. If you get one of those SPL meters from Radio Shack, you can really pin down the best levels for each speaker and get them all equal in output to compensate for each rooms characteristics and seating position etc... The mic deal that comes with the new Yamahas to auto detect levels is ok, but not great from what I hear.

Anyway, if you go say -2db's on the rears, you are decreasing the sound not increasing (again the - symbol has different meaning than in the volume settings).
I'm confused why would you say that the - symbol (negative) has a different meaning than in the volume settings. As you said earlier -25db is louder than -40db, assuming the input level is the same. So, +2db would be much, much louder than -25db. What did you mean by that?

I'm confused why would you say that the - symbol (negative) has a different meaning than in the volume settings. As you said earlier -25db is louder than -40db, assuming the input level is the same. So, +2db would be much, much louder than -25db. What did you mean by that?

Well, I understood him. What he meant is exactly what he wrote. Lets say you have your front speakers at 0 db, Wolfer at 0db and rear speakers at 0db. To increase sound to the rear speaker you would need to go +1 and then up as loud as your system will allow.

Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db. When you run the sound check on your system, you know that hissing noise, you can clearly hear that it increases with if you add volume to your rear speaker by pressing +db.

I don't know if I can make it any easier to understand. I understand your confusion though. I guess you have to try it yourself to really get it.

Well, I understood him. What he meant is exactly what he wrote. Lets say you have your front speakers at 0 db, Wolfer at 0db and rear speakers at 0db. To increase sound to the rear speaker you would need to go +1 and then up as loud as your system will allow.

Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db. When you run the sound check on your system, you know that hissing noise, you can clearly hear that it increases with if you add volume to your rear speaker by pressing +db.

I don't know if I can make it any easier to understand. I understand your confusion though. I guess you have to try it yourself to really get it.

Yep, that is exactly right. Terry, the +2 dbs is not a 'volume setting'. It's just increasing the sound output by 2 db's for that particular speaker. That's how most receivers work (at least the one's I've had). So the - or + is different than setting the overall volume to say +2 dbs. One is adding or subtracting single db's for a particular speaker from the current system volume, the other is the setting for the overall system volume itself. Plus, if you set your volume to 2 db's, you'd blow your speakers out. ha! :D

Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db.

Simple math says that -25dB is greater than -40dB. This is also reflected in how your stereo gets louder as the decibles increase. I was trying to understand why Dweezilz believes the "-" symbol was different between the system volume settings and the speaker level volume settings, which from what i've been told so far, it isn't. I didn't know if his receiver, for some reason, used a different set of rules than the rest of the world.

UPDATE:
In other words no matter if you're talking about speaker level or system volume, negative dBs or -dBs is always the same. Yeah you would never turn your system up to +2dBs, but it is also true that you are increasing the dBs (NOT decreasing) when you go from -40dB to -25dB.

I don't get it. What problems were they having still after FOX fixed their end of the problem? I wonder if this wasn't a knee jerk reaction, "Oh my God, we're getting calls left and right on this and we can't control when FOX will fix this."

"Hey, I know let's just reinstall the old software."

I'm not saying for sure that's what happened but now I want that upgrade back. :mad:

Yep, that is exactly right. Terry, the +2 dbs is not a 'volume setting'. It's just increasing the sound output by 2 db's for that particular speaker. That's how most receivers work (at least the one's I've had). So the - or + is different than setting the overall volume to say +2 dbs. One is adding or subtracting single db's for a particular speaker from the current system volume, the other is the setting for the overall system volume itself. Plus, if you set your volume to 2 db's, you'd blow your speakers out. ha! :D

I read somewhere that analog sound meters are better than digital for home calibration. Is this true? I'm stopping at Radio Shack on the way home from work to pick one up.

Also, at what volume should I set the receiver when I mess with the test tones for room acoustic adjustment?

Also, at what volume should I set the receiver when I mess with the test tones for room acoustic adjustment?
Speaking only from my car audio experience, it was said that you should adjust the volume to a normal speaking voice level. I have no idea if this applies to home audio.

Simple math says that -25dB is greater than -40dB. This is also reflected in how your stereo gets louder as the decibles increase. I was trying to understand why Dweezilz believes the "-" symbol was different between the system volume settings and the speaker level volume settings, which from what i've been told so far, it isn't. I didn't know if his receiver, for some reason, used a different set of rules than the rest of the world.

UPDATE:
In other words no matter if you're talking about speaker level or system volume, negative dBs or -dBs is always the same. Yeah you would never turn your system up to +2dBs, but it is also true that you are increasing the dBs (NOT decreasing) when you go from -40dB to -25dB.

Now now...don't get testy like that. You are not understanding and talking apples and oranges here. And by saying my reciever goes by different rules than the rest of the world or implying that I'm some sort of idiot & have no idea what I'm talking about and that I don't understand simple math, you are coming off kinda rude, which is unnecessary here. We are all friends here, so let's keep the tone with that in mind.

Yes, -25dB is louder than -40 db's. Obviously -25 is a bigger number than -40. I think I might have learned that by the time I graduated from college. :rolleyes: Our disconnect was me trying (and obvioiusly failing for you) to make it more clear to Hookbill. He understood, you didn't. Maybe my wording was poor, but let's all try to be civil about it & figure out what I was intending to say. Yes, -db's is decreasing the sound and +db's is increasing. I was trying to differenciate that doing +2 db's isn't setting your rear speakers to +2dbs!!! If saying that + / - was different than the +/- db's of the system sound itself was wrong in your eyes or somehow offended you, I'm sorry for my poor wording. It's adding 2 db's to what the system is set to already. So by saying the - sign is different in the individual speaker settings, I wasn't saying that +/- for individual speakers is somehow different than + db's in real terms of volume setting all of a sudden, I was saying that if you adjust a rear speaker +4 dbs it's different than setting the rear speaker to +4 db's!!! So for instance if all speakers are at -40dbs and you adjust a rear speaker +4 db's, the speaker should be -36 dbs, not 4dbs. Get it? How is my math? Ha!

Not sure how else I could state it. What I will say is, let's all be nice first...rude never helps anything or anyone.

Speaking only from my car audio experience, it was said that you should adjust the volume to a normal speaking voice level. I have no idea if this applies to home audio.

75 dbs is the DD standard give or take.

Anyone else with Fox Sports HD getting the Boston Celtics feed?! This is really odd.

The tuner on my sony TV was bringing in 88.1 and showing a test pattern until game time, then it just went blank. No game in HD :(

Although I have to admit I am kind of frightened that i'm going to be scared when I see Michael Reghi in HD

So those of you getting the 88.1 qam feed is that adelphia still? Did you say you were getting the boston feed of the Cavs game. Has anyone heard anything about Adelphia adding the channel to the digi boxes. It seems kinda weird that it is available on Adelphia's line through QAM but we can't get it on the boxes. Could this be because they still don't have a contract to carry it?

Noticed my boxes were powered off when I came home this evening. Haven't checked yet, but I believe that means my software was downgraded too.

If Adelphia is reading this - I can do without the 4th FF as long as "Play from beginning" is there and it doesn't go back when a recording ends.

And by saying my reciever goes by different rules than the rest of the world or implying that I'm some sort of idiot & have no idea what I'm talking about and that I don't understand simple math, you are coming off kinda rude, which is unnecessary here. We are all friends here, so let's keep the tone with that in mind .... Not sure how else I could state it. What I will say is, let's all be nice first...rude never helps anything or anyone.
With all that is happening in the world of consumer electronics I would not be surprised if a receiver DID go by different rules than the rest of the world and I certainly did not mean to imply that you were some sort of idiot. I was merely trying to figure out what you meant by "-" having a different meaning.

Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.
Now this is different from the overall volume control of the sound system which gets louder as you decrease the db.
This response made me concerned and I wanted to make sure this was clairifed whether or not you were available to clarify it first.

So to expand on, and agree with what you (Dweezilz) have said:
The negative symbol has equal meaning whether talking about main system volume or speaker volume. The value, whether positive or negative, is relative to a base value which is different when talking about main system level and the speaker level.

The main system volume is displayed (on some receivers) as the number of decibels the volume is attenuated from the full amplification power of the receiver with 0dB being full (non-attenuated) amplification. As the decibels decrease the system volume decreases and vice versa (i.e. -25dB is louder than -40dB).

From there you can individually tailor each speaker's volume by setting its dB level lesser or greater than 0dB where 0dB is equal to the system level.

Sorry for offending, just needed to draw some attention.

First of all, thanks to WJW Engineering for finding and apparently fixing the problem we've talked about here. I say "apparently" because I won't know for sure if it fixes things on my end until the next FOX HD program, at about 8 tomorrow night. :D But I have confidence it'll be OK.

For those who asked - I have seen the problem on my Fusion HDTV Tuner (USB5), and have actually seen it for some time. I think I saw it just days after I got the thing, back in November-ish. However, it also showed up on my 8000HD in the past few days, as I've described here. I'll cross my fingers for tomorrow night.

As far as Adelphia and the Cavs/FSN Ohio HD thing...it's my understanding that the holdup may not have been technical, but that all the papers between FSN Ohio/Adelphia may not have been in order in time to add it as channel 798. The open QAM feed I found may just have been to be ready for it, technically. (That'd probably also explain it being open...they probably weren't thinking about QAM tuners in the public.) I hear that they hope things should be in order by the 22nd, the next scheduled HD Cavs game, for it to air on Adelphia 798.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about the Indians, be it in SD, HD or any-D. It sounds like they're just gonna wait until TWC takes over Adelphia/Comcast locally. Roger Brown's PD column quoted Cox's local folks as saying the Indians are asking wayyyy too much for the new feed.

BTW, I apologize for mischaracterizing the FOX HD problem as being related to 5.1 vs. 2.0 sound. It comes from months of holding my breath each time I watched my Fusion tuner's software flip the indicator from 2.0 to 5.1 and vice versa. :D

(To tell you how long it goes back for ME, I was having this problem during regular season FOX NFL games... though the 8000HD's symptoms only happened in the past few days.)

Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.



Dweeziliz, see you had it wrong. It was me that he was calling an idiot not you.



















JUST KIDDING :D

Chill out dudes. :D

Noticed my boxes were powered off when I came home this evening. Haven't checked yet, but I believe that means my software was downgraded too.

If Adelphia is reading this - I can do without the 4th FF as long as "Play from beginning" is there and it doesn't go back when a recording ends.

Well, the play from beginning isn't there and I agree, that was the more important of the two.

One observation I did notice last night. While I was watching a recorded show the little blip came on 2 minutes before the recording saying what show was going to be recorded. Usually it only shows one show but last night it actually did 2 blips and showed the names of both shows that were getting ready to record.

Not a big deal, just something I noticed.

I think NBC has the levels right. Most television is broadcast at far too HIGH a level. In order to maintain that level without distortion, the broadcasters have to use extreme compression, leaving no room for dynamics at all. By using a lower average level, the network can provide the full dynamics of the audio of the event.

I suspect that the lower levels are largely because we are dealing with European crews who haven't "learned" to use the extreme audio compression that is so typical in US broadcasts. This phenomenon started decades ago with commercials, then gradually expanded into the regular broadcast audio.

Well, the play from beginning isn't there and I agree, that was the more important of the two.

One observation I did notice last night. While I was watching a recorded show the little blip came on 2 minutes before the recording saying what show was going to be recorded. Usually it only shows one show but last night it actually did 2 blips and showed the names of both shows that were getting ready to record.

Not a big deal, just something I noticed.
Any word from your contact on when we'll get the new version back? Catching up on the Olympics worked great with that PFB feature.

As for two shows - did you see them in one box or two seperate boxes. I've seen the two seperate boxes several times and didn't think anything of it. One observations I did have - when we did have the upgraded software - those notice boxes seemed to linger a bit longer. I seem to recall the box only popping up for a few seconds, but with the upgrade the box lingered for about 15-20 seconds.

Any word from your contact on when we'll get the new version back? Catching up on the Olympics worked great with that PFB feature.

As for two shows - did you see them in one box or two seperate boxes. I've seen the two seperate boxes several times and didn't think anything of it. One observations I did have - when we did have the upgraded software - those notice boxes seemed to linger a bit longer. I seem to recall the box only popping up for a few seconds, but with the upgrade the box lingered for about 15-20 seconds.

I don't want to be a pia to her so I don't call her unless we are having something that is a critical issue and I know customer service will be clueless.

Yes, they were in 2 seperate boxes appearing one right after another. Perhaps I just didn't notice.

With all that is happening in the world of consumer electronics I would not be surprised if a receiver DID go by different rules than the rest of the world and I certainly did not mean to imply that you were some sort of idiot. I was merely trying to figure out what you meant by "-" having a different meaning.

Dweezilz, I have no beef with you and I am confident you understand what you are talking about. My first response was written as a question of clarification to you so you could explain it for yourself. I really didn't want your point to be lost or confused as it ended up happening. My second response (with references to simple math) was not directed to you but to hookbill who missed the point of my original question, which was directed to you anyway. Yes, my first example was not the best and probably attributed to the confusion.

This response made me concerned and I wanted to make sure this was clairifed whether or not you were available to clarify it first.

So to expand on, and agree with what you (Dweezilz) have said:
The negative symbol has equal meaning whether talking about main system volume or speaker volume. The value, whether positive or negative, is relative to a base value which is different when talking about main system level and the speaker level.

The main system volume is displayed (on some receivers) as the number of decibels the volume is attenuated from the full amplification power of the receiver with 0dB being full (non-attenuated) amplification. As the decibels decrease the system volume decreases and vice versa (i.e. -25dB is louder than -40dB).

From there you can individually tailor each speaker's volume by setting its dB level lesser or greater than 0dB where 0dB is equal to the system level.

Sorry for offending, just needed to draw some attention.

Hey, no problem man. It's very easy to misinterpret stuff via typed text. Obviously we both did that to some extent. Ya just gotta be careful with sarcasm as it can come off very poorly & not the way you intended and I just took it the wrong way. I know you are saying you were being serious with the "rules of the world" thing, but it was what it was...a sarcastic remark that you didn't intend to come off the way it did. Actually as you hopefully now see, I wasn't refering to the physical or mathmatical properties of the negative sign being differnt for system volume compared to individual speaker volume settings. I was just refering to one being a subtraction from another number (or addition to), while the other is actually the volume level for the system. One is an actual volume level while the other is tweaking the main setting for one speaker. That's the different 'meaning' for each but I just didn't explain it as well as I could of (Hookbill somehow got it :) ). See how easy that is to get confused? Anyway, it's in the past so let's go forward.

You are right, my wording was a bit confusing with that statement you quoted as well. I didn't realize that's what you were refering to (you didn't quote it previously) and was only responding to the whole negative is different than the rest of the world thing. :) What basically happened there is that in typing quickly, since our brains are so tuned in to POSITIVE numbers, that in describing going from -40 to -20 in my haste to type quickly, I typed in that it was going down in numbers when obviously -40 to -20 is going up. It can be confusing you have to admit...the actual number gets smaller without regard to negative or positive and we just don't deal with negative numbers that much in our daily routines that it just came out wrong. Heck, I had just got done saying that I had to make it louder by going from -40 to -20, so maybe just saying "hey Dweezilz, I think you mistakenly said that backwards" might have avoided the misunderstanding.

So, I hope that explains it & we can go forward. No harm, no foul ; we'll all buddies again & now everyone understands the whole db's issue which is a good thing. I little sidebar lesson here in the Cleveland thread. ha!! :D

Dweeziliz, see you had it wrong. It was me that he was calling an idiot not you.

JUST KIDDING :D

Chill out dudes. :D

HA! That's funny. It's all good now. Ironically, you actually understood what I was saying. Maybe two idiots understand each other better. :p

I think NBC has the levels right. Most television is broadcast at far too HIGH a level. In order to maintain that level without distortion, the broadcasters have to use extreme compression, leaving no room for dynamics at all. By using a lower average level, the network can provide the full dynamics of the audio of the event.

I suspect that the lower levels are largely because we are dealing with European crews who haven't "learned" to use the extreme audio compression that is so typical in US broadcasts. This phenomenon started decades ago with commercials, then gradually expanded into the regular broadcast audio.

Yeah, I guess that could be. So would this apply to DD DVD content as well because for DVD's on my system, I'm usually around -36db's to -40db's, not -20dbs. They are definately lower volume than most TV shows, but still no where near as low as the Olympics have been. It does make some sense that feeds coming from Europe might not be using a standard that is used for most DVD and TV content in the USA. The only thing is, wouldn't all of that stuff be NBC's equipment and come from America?

Good news and bad news again...

Whatever change WJW made the other day means my 8000HD is no longer hiccuping during FOX HD programming.

Unfortunately, my Fusion is still choking at the splicer transition. :(

WJW Engineer, if you're still around here...can you provide insight into what you did that fixed things for Adelphia? If you just rolled back a version or two in the splicer software, that's probably why it didn't work for my Fusion, as it's been having the problem since I got it in Novemberish. I just don't know what could be causing it to still crash.

Another topic: QAM channel 88.1 is still lit up on Adelphia with the FOX Sports Ohio HD feed. But instead of upconverted digital of the regular FSN Ohio feed, it's a constant billboard for Rainbow network TOC:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/Inundated/rainbowslate.jpg

And still more...for whatever reason, on my old USDigital tuner, I'm getting a spotty, sometimes viewable signal out of WOAC-DT (47). Judging by the signal strength, I'd assume this is still their STA (out in Kent, across the road from WNIR/WAOH-LP at 76 and 43). Their full power DT signal should be visible on anything whenever it gets up...

Whatever change WJW made the other day means my 8000HD is no longer hiccuping during FOX HD programming.

Unfortunately, my Fusion is still choking at the splicer transition. :(

Have you checked to see if there are any software updates available?

WOAC has been installing their full-power transmitter for the last few months. They may be testing it now.

Have you checked to see if there are any software updates available?

You obviously don't have a Fusion. :D

They put out software updates/betas/etc. every other day. OK, maybe not that often...

I do have whatever their latest software is (3.3). We have a very active thread about the Fusion in the section of this forum dedicated to Home Theatre Computers and we've talked about this FOX HD splicer problem at length. The problem has been there since I've had the thing, which came with version 3.11. One note: it apparently is not widespread, but I'm not the only one who's had the problem. It might be a market-specific thing.

My latest tack is to record samples of this, and upload them to the DVICO engineers. I'm in the process of doing this even as we speak. I was just hoping the WJW engineering folks could provide some insight as to what changes were actually made, and any information on just what happens (electronically) when the splicer kicks back and forth between the network and local...i.e. what could possibly be sent out that would throw the Fusion for a loop, and earlier, the Adelphia DVRs.

WOAC has been installing their full-power transmitter for the last few months. They may be testing it now.

I think it was more atmospheric conditions...it really wasn't strong enough to be the full power unit. From what I remember, that'd be 1000KW, which should blow the doors off my tuners here.

Does anybody know what happened to the digital channels on Time Warner NEO (channel 600s)?? I went to tune in tonight and they were gone!

Thanks.

I found out why Time Warner NEO removed the 600's. They making all of their channels digital! It's about time!

I had the opportunity to do some comparisons this afternoon, with 3 college basketball games being on at the same time. I was mainly watching the Buckeyes on WUAB-DT, but during breaks, I flipped to UK-South Carolina on WOIO-DT and VT-NC State on WEWS-DT.

The WOIO-DT game was in HD and looked excellent, as it always does.

The Buckeyes game on WUAB-DT was in SD but looked pretty good.

The game on WEWS-DT was also in SD and looked awful. It kind of looked like an analog signal suffering from multipath with ghosted images. The graphics especially looked bad.

The SD signal on WUAB-DT did not look nearly as bad. It did not have the ghosting bluriness and the graphics were readable.

I remember reading about this problem before on WEWS. I think Inundated mentioned that he was trying to contact somebody there to see if they could fix this. Inundated, did you ever hear anything out of them? I cannot believe that they continue to allow such a poor digital signal to be broadcast.

I remember reading about this problem before on WEWS. I think Inundated mentioned that he was trying to contact somebody there to see if they could fix this. Inundated, did you ever hear anything out of them? I cannot believe that they continue to allow such a poor digital signal to be broadcast.

Channel 5 apparently doesn't listen to me. :D

Can you drop them a note, or better yet, call their Engineering department? Or any of the other folks who've reported this problem (which I saw again today, too)? I believe their number is 216-431-5555...if they heard about this from more people than just me, maybe they'd pay attention, and you stated the problem very eloquently.

I found out why Time Warner NEO removed the 600's. They making all of their channels digital! It's about time!

Adelphia is doing the same, too. Right now, only the network affiliates are digital on the non-HD side. They have some "placeholders" like your 600 series for all the other channels (in the 800s), but haven't populated any of them except the network affiliates yet.

Adelphia actually just signed a contract with a company to provide equipment to do the "digital substitution". I'm guessing it's the same company that makes the equipment they're using in Cleveland, but they may have only been testing the process before.

UPDATE! My problem with FOX HD locking up on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner is now fixed, at least on my desktop computer. It's the same problem that was showing up for Adelphia DVR users until WJW's engineering folks made some adjustments.

It turns out that the problem only happens when you're using the "non-accelerated" video drivers for the Fusion. If you use their driver for accelerated video cards (DxVA), it does not appear. I don't know how to fix the problem on non-accelerated video, but at least I know what is a cause of it and what to get them to look at. And since the Fusion is on my desktop computer downstairs, that means I can just leave it this way.

UPDATE! My problem with FOX HD locking up on my Fusion HDTV5USB tuner is now fixed, at least on my desktop computer. It's the same problem that was showing up for Adelphia DVR users until WJW's engineering folks made some adjustments.

It turns out that the problem only happens when you're using the "non-accelerated" video drivers for the Fusion. If you use their driver for accelerated video cards (DxVA), it does not appear. I don't know how to fix the problem on non-accelerated video, but at least I know what is a cause of it and what to get them to look at. And since the Fusion is on my desktop computer downstairs, that means I can just leave it this way.

I'm glad your alright with this. I have to admit I was a bit worried that something they may do to help you might screw us up again. :)

I'm glad your alright with this. I have to admit I was a bit worried that something they may do to help you might screw us up again. :)

Nah, no one was even listening to me on this problem until it hit Adelphia. Then it became "holy crap, it's not just one guy with a USB tuner card!"...

Now, on to bug WEWS...!

Is there anybody here with Wide Open West that has seen the new Fox Sports Ohio HD (aka Cavs HD) in their guide yet? The press release (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/fsn_highdef.html) said it's supposed to be on channel 220, but it's not showing in my IPG. Hopefully we get it turned on before the game on Wednesday...

Is there anybody here with Wide Open West that has seen the new Fox Sports Ohio HD (aka Cavs HD) in their guide yet? The press release (http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/fsn_highdef.html) said it's supposed to be on channel 220, but it's not showing in my IPG. Hopefully we get it turned on before the game on Wednesday...

While I'm not on WOW, maybe I can help :)

There is no 24/7 feed of "FOX Sports Ohio HD". It appears that they're offering only the Cavs games, and not sending up the rest of the FSN Ohio programming even in upconverted mode.

The channel on Adelphia, which hasn't shown up yet in our guides (798), exists right now as an unencrypted QAM channel (RF 88.1). Somewhere up the thread, I think, I posted the screen capture of the Rainbow video billboard that's on that channel when the Cavs aren't on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7147978&&#post7147978

("Rainbow Programming" is the former corporate parent of the FSN channels.) They aren't gonna open it up for that. So, my guess is that WOW won't send out 220 until the game is on - maybe the night before they'll push it to the boxes or something.

I get the idea that FSN is just doing it this way for now, sending the occasional game feeds out. It's not like ESPN-HD, where they upconvert the analog programming the rest of the time.

Sorry if this has been discussed, but does anyone know where I can find info on when D* will offer locals in Cleveland?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but does anyone know where I can find info on when D* will offer locals in Cleveland?

I've got to admit, I was going to make some smart aleck remark, as it felt like the topic was just discussed on here. But when I started going backwards in the thread, I realized just how much is discussed since then. Wow. Thanks everybody.

Anyway, it's been suggested that May sounds about right for the rollout.

And if you want to read the posts about D* locals in HD, click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7116698&&#post7116698) There are a couple of posts just before this spot, and there are a couple after.

I've got to admit, I was going to make some smart aleck remark, as it felt like the topic was just discussed on here. But when I started going backwards in the thread, I realized just how much is discussed since then. Wow. Thanks everybody.

Anyway, it's been suggested that May sounds about right for the rollout.

And if you want to read the posts about D* locals in HD, click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7116698&&#post7116698) There are a couple of posts just before this spot, and there are a couple after.

Thanks for the info...and for withholding the smart aleck response.

Tonight my SA 8300 recorded only 30 minutes of "Cold Case" and 25 minutes of "Desperate Housewives."

I've been keeping a close eye on this and I saw the entire shows, both of them record (red recording light on). They were the only recordings I had for those time slots tonight. But when I brought up the playlist it was showing only partial recordings. The first part.

I've been having a problem with this for some time, long before the FOX issue. It started about the time the new season started in the Fall. That also happens to be about the time I got an external hard drive. It only happens during primetime on network shows. It never happens with INHD, or HBO-HD.

I've discussed this in every 8300 forum and nobody else seems to have this problem but me. So I'm asking anyone locally who recorded either of those shows last night in HD to let me know if you got the entire recording. I think there has got to be a problem with the Maxtor External Hard Drive. I can't think of anything else. I've already switched out machines.

If anyone else had a problem or if your recording is fine, please let me know.

Again, it's showing the enitre episode recording. It's only after the recording finishes that the partial shows up.

Tonight my SA 8300 recorded only 30 minutes of "Cold Case" and 25 minutes of "Desperate Housewives."

Sorry, hookbill, but Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me last night. I've never tried myself so I have no idea if this is a viable option but have you tried contacting Scientific Atlanta directly if Adelphia won't do it for you?

Do you see any errors under the Software Anomalies section of the SARA Information diagnostics screen? Warnings, as you pointed out before, can be disregarded but I read somewhere that Errors represent a higher level of severity that might help debug the problem.

Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me, but the wife and I ware waiting to watch until I can torrent last weeks episode in an effort to watch without the annoying audio delay.

Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me, but the wife and I ware waiting to watch until I can torrent last weeks episode in an effort to watch without the annoying audio delay.

Didn't notice an audio delay on what was recorded.

We're not suppose to say the "t" word from what I've been told. PM me, I may have some info for ya. ;)

Sorry, hookbill, but Desperate Housewives recorded fine for me last night. I've never tried myself so I have no idea if this is a viable option but have you tried contacting Scientific Atlanta directly if Adelphia won't do it for you?

Do you see any errors under the Software Anomalies section of the SARA Information diagnostics screen? Warnings, as you pointed out before, can be disregarded but I read somewhere that Errors represent a higher level of severity that might help debug the problem.

What's so wierd about all this is I see the recording through until the end. It's only afterwards that it shows up as a partial.

Adelphia does not support the external hard drive so I can't get help from them. SA never helps anybody to the best of my knowledge they refer you to your cable company.

So I've disconnected the Maxtor External HD and I'll try recording without it. I'm pretty sure it's what's causing the problem.

I lose 500 gb of recording space because of this, but if it doesn't record correctly then I don't have much option.

The PQ issues with WEWS is not limited to their digital signal. During the College Football season I compaired the pictire from WEWS-DT with WEWS-TV. The same blurry scoreboard appeared on both feeds.

ABC entertainment programs look far better than ABC Sports programs on WEWS. So the problem is probably GIGO.

Once I get an outdoor antenna up, I may be able to compair WEWS with WYTV. If the same problem is seen from Yongstown, then we know that it's ABC's fault and not WEWS.

I think it was more atmospheric conditions...it really wasn't strong enough to be the full power unit. From what I remember, that'd be 1000KW, which should blow the doors off my tuners here.
Well I just locked onto WOAC-DT 47 for the very first time last night. I get a steady reading of 75 on my E* 921 using a Silver Sensor from SE Parma. Prior to last night I got only short "blips" of a signal and could never lock. Additionally, While I have a lock and can watch "Shop-at-Home" the EPG says "Rf 47" (insted of WOAC 67). So their PSIP is not set-up yet.

It would be neat if they started using their digital bandwidth to carry some entertaiment programming on a subchannel ;)

Well I just locked onto WOAC-DT 47 for the very first time last night. I get a steady reading of 75 on my E* 921 using a Silver Sensor from SE Parma. Prior to last night I got only short "blips" of a signal and could never lock. Additionally, While I have a lock and can watch "Shop-at-Home" the EPG says "Rf 47" (insted of WOAC 67). So their PSIP is not set-up yet.

It would be neat if they started using their digital bandwidth to carry some entertaiment programming on a subchannel ;)

I picked up WOAC this weekend (on 47.3) while fooling around with an indoor antenna so I could pick up WFMJ out of Y-town (the rotor on my outdoor antenna is not working and I cannot pick up WKYC-DT reliably). It is a low-level, but steady, signal.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for non-shopping programming from these guys - I believe WOAC is a Shop-at-Home O&O station.

BTW, I get a good solid signal from WFMJ-DT with my indoor antenna. Fortunately, I can point it out a window facing Y-town. Those guys put out a great signal! Would it be too much to hope that they sign an agreement to carry the Indians HD OTA games that WKYC is doing this season? I can dream, can't I? :D

I picked up WOAC this weekend (on 47.3) while fooling around with an indoor antenna so I could pick up WFMJ out of Y-town (the rotor on my outdoor antenna is not working and I cannot pick up WKYC-DT reliably). It is a low-level, but steady, signal.

Tonight, I just pointed the antenna towards Kent, not even out a window...and I'm getting the strongest signal I've ever gotten out of them. It's locking and steady at roughly 80ish% on my US Digital. It's not breaking up like the other night. Maybe they have the 1000KW stick up and running! Too bad there's nothing but home shopping on it. :D

BTW, I get a good solid signal from WFMJ-DT with my indoor antenna. Fortunately, I can point it out a window facing Y-town. Those guys put out a great signal! Would it be too much to hope that they sign an agreement to carry the Indians HD OTA games that WKYC is doing this season? I can dream, can't I? :D

Don't laugh so quickly...when the Indians announced the WKYC deal, they made comments about wanting to air the OTA games in other markets, and I believe even in HD. I don't know which station they'd approach in Youngstown, though...it has nothing to do with WFMJ/WKYC's NBC affiliation.

I can't get WFMJ-DT here in northwest Akron (old Northampton Twp.) with an indoor antenna. I have no significant east facing, unfortunately. I'm fortunate that my loft window aims pretty much directly northwest at Parma.

I looked at WKBN-DT's application the other day, and the pattern looks like it could well provide decent service to parts of Akron when it gets up. It's even more powerful than WFMJ. WYTV, of course, is the straggler, as it pretty much always is in that market. ;)

I'm crossing my fingers that WKBN-DT does it right and implements 5.1 audio. I've pretty much given up hope of WOIO ever upgrading their equipment. Same for WUAB. I almost hope that WBNX gets the new CW affiliation because I would be willing to bet money that they will have 5.1 audio when they start broadcasting digitally this summer. Just a feeling.

I can't get WFMJ-DT here in northwest Akron (old Northampton Twp.)Don't you mean "new" Cuyahoga Falls? :D

Are you in the valley or on fairly high ground? I can get WFMJ occasionally here in SE Parma using a Silver Sensor NOT aimed out a window. I can't wait for Spring, I have to put ou an outdoor antenna aimed at Y'Town. I'm hoping to get Y'town stations on a daily basis (I do get the analog WFMJ daily).

Don't laugh so quickly...when the Indians announced the WKYC deal, they made comments about wanting to air the OTA games in other markets, and I believe even in HD. I don't know which station they'd approach in Youngstown, though...it has nothing to do with WFMJ/WKYC's NBC affiliation.

I didn't catch the comment about OTA in other markets. That would be great as long as the Y-town station's initials are NOT WKBN or WYTV! :D

Has anybody heard when WKBN-DT might be on the air?


I looked at WKBN-DT's application the other day, and the pattern looks like it could well provide decent service to parts of Akron when it gets up. It's even more powerful than WFMJ. WYTV, of course, is the straggler, as it pretty much always is in that market. ;)

Yeah, I was hoping I might be able to catch WYTV with the indoor antenna and give myself an alternative to WEWS during SD programming. No chance - the signal is too weak.

Don't you mean "new" Cuyahoga Falls? :D

Actually, no...I'm in one of those little patches of land Akron annexed before the Falls went after the rest of Northampton Township...

Are you in the valley or on fairly high ground? I can get WFMJ occasionally here in SE Parma using a Silver Sensor NOT aimed out a window. I can't wait for Spring, I have to put ou an outdoor antenna aimed at Y'Town. I'm hoping to get Y'town stations on a daily basis (I do get the analog WFMJ daily).

My problem isn't being low (I'm not in the Valley, I'm above it), but the fact I have basically no clearance to the east/southeast. There are also too many trees, though I do get the Parma antenna farm stations going through clearing in some trees. I don't get any analog Youngstown reception here, either.

FYI - WOAC-DT appears to be running less power than yesterday.

Me again!

As promised, Adelphia has added HD channel 798, named "HDBON", which will carry the Cavaliers' game on Wednesday night. The channel shows "HD Promo" the rest of the time, but the game and the 6:30 pregame is in the guide data.

It also shows up on my Fusion HDTV tuner, correctly numbered 798 and with the HDBON channel name. I got there by tuning to 88.1 first, and it kicked me there. Neither the Fusion or the SA 8000HD have any video or audio at this time...not surprising, due to what I'd posted earlier about the nature of the "occasional feed" for the games...

Last night I watched Boston Legal on WEWS-DT using the direct cable connection to my set while recording 2 other shows on my Adelphia SA8300HD. My wife and I noticed that the sound was out-of-sync with the video. I've heard of this happening before, but have never really experienced it before. I tuned to some other local channels and didn't see the out-of-sync audio. Did anyone else notice it? We watched Desperate Housewives the other night (through the 8300) and didn't notice it then...?!!

...the sound was out-of-sync with the video. Did anyone else notice it? It drove me up a wall! :mad:

Last night I watched Boston Legal on WEWS-DT using the direct cable connection to my set while recording 2 other shows on my Adelphia SA8300HD. My wife and I noticed that the sound was out-of-sync with the video. I've heard of this happening before, but have never really experienced it before. I tuned to some other local channels and didn't see the out-of-sync audio. Did anyone else notice it? We watched Desperate Housewives the other night (through the 8300) and didn't notice it then...?!!

Now this is really strange! I recorded DH on the 8300 and after reading your post took a look at it. Audio is out of synch there too.

This problem generally happens on HD broadcasts, specially lately with WEWS. But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast. To the best of my knowledge I've never seen a live analog broadcast with audio out of synch.

I think it would be a good idea for us to start calling WEWS and complaining about this. No doubt if it was analog they had to have had a flood of complaints last night.

Rijax, how were you watching it last night? Was it analog or digital or HD digital?

If you view (OTA) the Analog channel at the same time you are viewing the Digital channel (same program OTA with two tv's) you will see a delay in the video and the sound on the digital channel every time. It is no surprise to me that they get this all fouled up by pushing the wrong buttons.

JJK

If you view (OTA) the Analog channel at the same time you are viewing the Digital channel (same program OTA with two tv's) you will see a delay in the video and the sound on the digital channel every time. It is no surprise to me that they get this all fouled up by pushing the wrong buttons.

JJK

I can understand that if I was working the controls since I don't know what the hell I'm doing. :) But supposedly they hire people with knowledge of how these things work, like WJW Engineer.

And I do see your point about the audio being off on the analog and digital. All you have to do is walk around my house where there is always two tv's on to see that. But it still doesn't explain the analog picture and video being out of synch. :confused:

Rijax, how were you watching it last night? Was it analog or digital or HD digital? HD Digital via Cox Cable. I should've gone over to the analog SD broadcast to see if the problem was there as well, but NO! I, for some inexplicable reason, chose to sit there and suffer. :( I gather I was stuck in my "DAMMIT! I want my hi def" mode. DUH! :o

HD Digital via Cox Cable. I should've gone over to the analog SD broadcast to see if the problem was there as well, but NO! I, for some inexplicable reason, chose to sit there and suffer. :( I gather I was stuck in my "DAMMIT! I want my hi def" mode. DUH! :o

Well this is interesting. We know it was messed up live hd, and analog on two different cable companies. I can also confirm that I have previewed another copy of this broadcast obtained let's just say, elsewhere, and it was not out of synch. So I think we can start pointing the finger at WEWS.

Oh, and I know exactly what you mean by the "stuck in HD mode." Almost got stuck there myself today before I thought of a solution. ;)

I was watching WEWS OTA HD last night an the audio was off by at least second and maybe more. I reverted to analog where there was not a problem

Now this is really strange! I recorded DH on the 8300 and after reading your post took a look at it. Audio is out of synch there too.

This problem generally happens on HD broadcasts, specially lately with WEWS. But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast. To the best of my knowledge I've never seen a live analog broadcast with audio out of synch.

It is entirely possible that k2rj was watching the digital broadcast of Boston Legal with the cable connected directly to the HDTV via QAM capable tuner. The report from rrobbins would lead me to believe the analog was correct while other reports say the digital signal is out of sync.

Important question...
Has WEWS started broadcasting in 5.1 recently? From reports, I have read, this problem has only been happening for the past several weeks (read as: this is a new problem). The ABC affiliate in Cinci had audio sync problems due to their HDTV encoder and their DD encoder combination. WCPO-DT recently (Jan 06) installed a new HDTV encoder to solve this sync issue, but have not yet engaged their 5.1 encoder since they discovered the problem (Nov 05) to see if they have fixed it yet.

Now this is really strange! ...But since you were watching it straight off your cable without the box interfacing that means you had to be watching the analog broadcast.

I was watching it straight off the cable, but in HD, not analog. (My HDTV has an ATSC digital tuner.)

Very strange about your recording of DH... I can't say I was looking for out-of-sync audio when we were watching it, but I definately believe I (or my wife) would have noticed it. This was Monday's DH we were watching, not Sunday's (which I believe is its normal day.)

It drove me up a wall! :mad:

I recorded it last night and noticed the same thing! I thought my SageTV install was acting up.

Long time, no see. How's everyone.

CAV'S GAME IN HD. ADELPHIA CHANNEL 798 . As I understand, this not a 24 hr channel but certain events. Here's the schedule so far

Day Date Opponent Begins

Wednesday Feb. 22 @ Philadelphia 76ers 6:30 PM

Friday Feb. 24 Washington Wizards 7:00 PM

Monday Feb. 27 Detroit Pistons 6:30 PM

Tuesday Mar. 07 Toronto Raptors 6:30 PM

Wednesday Mar. 29 Dallas Mavericks 6:30 PM

Sunday Apr. 02 @ Charlotte Bobcats 5:30 PM

Tuesday Apr. 04 Philadelphia 76ers 6:30 PM

Monday Apr. 10 @ New Orleans Hornets 7:30 PM

WEWS has been out of sync more often than not. I have been watching the OTA Digital signal for over a year now. I suffered through their experiments with 15 X 9 stretch aspect ratio on SD programming.

What I'm saying is the out of sync problem is not new. Their audio sync problems date back to nearly the beginning of my experience receiveing OTA digital broadcasts (although WEAO had the worst case of audio sync problems back in Dec '04).
I would not get my hopes up about WEWS getting 5.1 equipment or blaming that equipment for the audio sync problem. If it was the 5.1 equipment causing the sync problems then WEWS must have had 5.1 from the beginning.

i have never seen 5.1 out of sync, but I will admit that my watching of them is limited to MNF and other sports.

so who knows???

on another note, how do the cavs look?

Pre-game was SD. The picture quality looks good (Reghi's makeup looks very thick!)

The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.

Hmmm. Cavs in HD on Adelphia 798. I think I've heard that somewhere before. :D

Other news from elsewhere: Cleveland is officially on the "upcoming list" for DirecTV's HD "Local into Local" service, one of 24 markets set to get the HD locals "starting in April":

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7182772#post7182772

The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.

Hey Ted, so channel 220 was up on WOW tonight for the Cavs HD? I got home too late to check, and I don't see channel 220 in my on screen program guide...

Hey Ted, so channel 220 was up on WOW tonight for the Cavs HD? I got home too late to check, and I don't see channel 220 in my on screen program guide...

Yep, it came up as FSN Ohio on Channel 220. It was a decent picture, just a bit soft, especially on the full court shots. Nothing too bad, though. The game sucked, however. Then I went into my home office in the next room to do some emails, etc. When the broadcast finished that Rainbow screen came up and WOW, the bass and volume blasted like crazy, with a repetitive tape loop thing going on. It was clearly 10-20 db louder than the game.

Did anyone else notice an abundance of bass during the Cavs game? The normal thumps and music in an NBA arena were really pumping through my sub. I had no other problems on any other programming, but almost turned down my sub manually during the Cavs game. I'm on Adelphia.

Yes, it was rather boomy, and carried a lot of spurious bass....like during oncourt timeout analysis, I could hear my subs rumbling, but not sure to what. Then, as I mentioned, when the Rainbow screen came on, look out.

I also noticed the heavy bass but I was impressed with the live court sounds, tennis shoe squeaks, rim noise, etc. I am on Adelphia and assuming it was a 5.1 track but the bass was way overdriven. How and why would you do that? I'm trying to think of what the audio engineer had to have done to create this problem. Were they putting in a bass heavy EQ to make the announcers heavier? Puzzling.

My Fusion tuner showed the Cavs game with 5.1. I don't have a HT setup, so I didn't hear it directly.

The Indians announced that the new network will show all home games in HD.

SportsTime Ohio News Release (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060223&content_id=1320258&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle)

The Indians announced that the new network will show all home games in HD.

SportsTime Ohio News Release (http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060223&content_id=1320258&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle)

Fox 8 News at something on this but unfortunately I didn't get to see it.

But it looks pretty positive that most of us will get it by opening day. 10% won't? Hmmm...I'd bet that's going to be either Dish or Direct or both.

By the way guys....It's good to be back I spent the night in the hospital last night. Amongst all the other tortures I had to put up with a 19" tv screen, analog cable, and my sound system consisted of a little speaker attached to a remote control that was probably made around 1950. :)

Anyway, everything turned out fine and I got released today. They were concerened I might have had a heart problem but turns out OK. :)

But it looks pretty positive that most of us will get it by opening day. 10% won't? Hmmm...I'd bet that's going to be either Dish or Direct or both.


And Cox, which has come out playing hardball (so to speak) with a website urging folks to lobby the Indians and "make them play fair"... (re: programming costs)

As far as Adelphia goes, I'm still not optimistic that they'll figure it out before the TWC merger. But note that the new "HDBON" channel on Adelphia (798), where the Cavaliers HD games now air, is actually called that because it's called "HD BONUS". It'd be a pretty easy place to put HD Indians games to be broadcast by SportsTime Ohio...

Sony starts offering reruns of "Seinfeld" in HD on March 27th...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7191214&&#post7191214

I wonder if WJW will pick these up...it'd sure be a natural, since Seinfeld runs right after their HD 10 PM news. Of course, I'm not sure if they have the rights to the show into the fall...

Anyway, everything turned out fine and I got released today. They were concerened I might have had a heart problem but turns out OK. :)

good to hear everything's ok(we need u here). Your photo icon disappeared. Maybe you're updating. I've been meaning to put one up but haven't yet.
Who fed the birds when u were gone??

good to hear everything's ok(we need u here). Your photo icon disappeared. Maybe you're updating. I've been meaning to put one up but haven't yet.
Who fed the birds when u were gone??

Thanks for well wishes. Wife took care of birds. Hey, I was only gone a day but when you gotta put up with that type of equipment and the usual poking and stuff they do at a hospital, it's good to be home. :)

Thanks for well wishes. Wife took care of birds. Hey, I was only gone a day but when you gotta put up with that type of equipment and the usual poking and stuff they do at a hospital, it's good to be home. :)

I'm glad you're home and out of the hospital as well...as you noted, the TV sucks! :D

As far as Adelphia goes, I'm still not optimistic that they'll figure it out before the TWC merger. But note that the new "HDBON" channel on Adelphia (798), where the Cavaliers HD games now air, is actually called that because it's called "HD BONUS". It'd be a pretty easy place to put HD Indians games to be broadcast by SportsTime Ohio...

I went to the new website and sent a comment about Adelphia. However, the thing is set to only allow 250 characters per comment, so I had to be quite precise.... :mad:

Welcome back Hookbill! Glad you are OK.

I went to the new website and sent a comment about Adelphia. However, the thing is set to only allow 250 characters per comment, so I had to be quite precise.... :mad:

Perhaps we're not SOL afterall:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/02/sportstime-ohio-and-adelphia.html

I'll believe it when I see that channel in my lineup, though.

*EDIT* Here's the relevant paragraph from the Westlife article -- Talks are ongoing with the major satellite companies as well as other Westshore cable operators such as Adelphia and Wide Open West, Liberatore said. Time Warner Cable, which already has a deal inked with the Indians network, is scheduled to purchase Adelphia’s Northeast Ohio systems this summer. However, until that takeover is finalized, Liberatore said Adelphia is being dealt with separately.

Here's what WOW cable responded with:
---------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting Wow Internet and Cable,

The Cleveland Indians intend to operate a regional sports network in Ohio. While there are no specific details for this new channel yet, WOW fully intends to carry this channel. This new network is NOT exclusive to Time Warner and the Indians will be working with all of the cable and satellite providers in their region to provide Indians baseball to the most subscribers possible.


If you have any other problems or questions, please contact us at:

1-866-496-9669
--------------------------------------------

Lame dated form response

Perhaps we're not SOL afterall:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/02/sportstime-ohio-and-adelphia.html

I'll believe it when I see that channel in my lineup, though.

Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.

FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June. :mad:

What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?

Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.

Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.

FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June. :mad:

What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?

Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.


Don't feel bad, Wide Open West is charging me $12.99 a month for the crappy SA8000HD with a DVI port that doesn't work. And no SA8300HD's are on the horizon, either.

Add to that $9.99/mo for the basic HD Tier. We have ESPNHD but we still don't have ESPN2HD !

Don't feel bad, Wide Open West is charging me $12.99 a month for the crappy SA8000HD with a DVI port that doesn't work. And no SA8300HD's are on the horizon, either.

Add to that $9.99/mo for the basic HD Tier. We have ESPNHD but we still don't have ESPN2HD !

What's wrong with your DVI port?

What's wrong with your DVI port?

Didn't work with an NEC 42" ED (but it wasn't HDCP compliant so I sort of expected that)
Didn't work with a Panny 42" ED with the DVI blade
Didn't work with a Panny 42" HD
Didn't work with a Panny 50" HD (latest generation that came out in 2005)
Didn't work with a Dell 20" LCD TV

I've tried all the goofy variations of powering this on and that off in such and such a sequence to get the HDCP handshake to work, standing on one leg with a tin foil hat on, etc. etc., and nothing. It's ridiculous.

Didn't work with an NEC 42" ED (but it wasn't HDCP compliant so I sort of expected that)
Didn't work with a Panny 42" ED with the DVI blade
Didn't work with a Panny 42" HD
Didn't work with a Panny 50" HD (latest generation that came out in 2005)
Didn't work with a Dell 20" LCD TV

I've tried all the goofy variations of powering this on and that off in such and such a sequence to get the HDCP handshake to work, standing on one leg with a tin foil hat on, etc. etc., and nothing. It's ridiculous.

Mine worked first time, everytime, going through my DVI-VGA converter. The only time it shows HDCP message is using it through a Denon 4806 (cuz the Denon doesn't let seem to let go of the original handshake). The Dtronics DVI two way switcher, though, is all I need, and reestablishes handshake.

For kicks try unplugging from iec connector in back (i.e hard reboot). Then once back up, reconnect to display device. Also try hard boot while staying connected to tv.

Well, we're going to get it, it's just a question as to how soon.

FWIW, I got a letter in the mail from Adelphia saying they know that I've been overjoyed (choke!) with my DVR box and all it's great "features" but I was one of the first to try it so I got it for free and now they "have" to charge an additional 4.95 come June. :mad:

What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?

Fine.....If all goes according to plan HD locals on D* will be available around May and I can tell Adelphia to take it's 4.95 and put it where the sun don't shine.

So I wonder if that box is required for HD thus rasing my HD rate another 5 bux a month. If so I may tell them to shove it too and join D*.

So I wonder if that box is required for HD thus rasing my HD rate another 5 bux a month. If so I may tell them to shove it too and join D*.

The problem with D* is you're getting HDLite. Cable still wins in the HD PQ dept. I did the math because I was thinking about switching from WOW to D* and D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.

Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.

What? I thought by June TWC would definitely have control?


Nothing is definite as far as a timeline, because they still have to get FCC approval (expected) and for that matter, all the various local franchise agreements approved (no idea, but presumably expected).

I hear they are shooting for May 31st, though. But until that time, Adelphia still has to act as if nothing is going to happen. Thus, the letter you received. Adelphia can't legally say "we're not going to do anything, because we won't exist". It may also take some time for TWC to adjust rates to be in line with their own rates.

The problem with D* is you're getting HDLite. Cable still wins in the HD PQ dept. I did the math because I was thinking about switching from WOW to D* and D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.

Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.

Over in the TiVo Forum I read a thread about comparison with OTA vs D* HD. It pretty much verifies what you say, it's a "sort of" HD picture.

I've now have had my External HD drive disconnected for 7 days and my 8300 has not missed a recording or recorded only a partial, so I have to believe that the Maxtor 500 External HD was part of the problem I was having. I'm back and forth now as to whether or not I will switch to D*. Even if they offer HD locals, if it isn't good quality I don't want it. Perhaps the MPEG format will help.

I really don't think there is a problem with the Maxtor 500 as I have read many people have success with it. Maybe I just purchased a bad unit. It seems however that while the whole show gets recorded for whatever reason the Maxtor 500 only retains a partial recording. Since I watch almost everything by time shift I have to let the Maxtor go. :(

Contact Maxtor about it... They may offer a replacement under warranty.

After reading on a different thread abouot how The Tube looks bad on a different market's station I went to The Tube's web site and posted a comment.

I got a reply and I replied to that reply. I thought some of you might be interested (thanks to Inundated for his Tube screen shot many pages back in this thread)

Ali,
Thank you for your quick reply!

The problem I'm seeing is on almost all content on the tube, not just older
videos. The technical name for the probelm is "pixillation".
Pixillation is seen on The Tube whenever there is fast movment in the picture.
Pixillation appears as blocks in the picture. The picture qualilty is like
watching streaming video over the internet with a low-bandwidth connection. The
quality is not up to television standards.

A fellow poster on the AVS Forums took this screen shot off WUAB-DT 43.2 http:/
/members.aol.com/inundated99/images/thetube.jpg

Another poster said he talked with an engineer form his local Tube affilliate (I
believe he was in Cincinnati, but I can't find the posting to give you a direct
quote). Anyway the engineer said that the picture is coming in with the
pixillation. So perhaps some quality control measures need to be taken at the
source of The Tube.

Anything you can do to help fix this probem would be great - for us the current
viewers as well as for The Tube as a network. As more potential viewers get the
equipment to watch subchannels as well as the digital cable systems that are
carrying The Tube, picture quality will be factor for many who may tune out when
the picture gets bad. Believe me it does get real bad a times.

Thanks again and I hope you can get to the bottom of this problem,

Mike

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Hello Mike,
Thank you for your email. I checked with our local affiliate and they are
not squeezing our signal so perhaps what you are seeing is because much of
our content is older and the quality of image is not as sharp.
We appreciate hearing from you and are certainly pleased to hear that you
have already found the new Tube Music Network, the ONLY all music channel on
television! We love hearing from you because The Tube is all about the music
and you. But don't just tell us... tell your friends...write your local
music critics...spread the word!
And of course, keep watching!


Ali Stephens-Bibeau
Marketing and Promotions Manager
The Tube Music Network


-----Original Message-----
From: michael2341@netzero.net [mailto:michael2341@netzero.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:04 PM
To: respond@thetubetv.com
Subject:

Reply-To: michael2341@netzero.net


michael2341@netzero.net



I love the music mix.

I hate the picture!

Please use less digital compresion. Other local digital TV stations with
subchannels have a superior picture to The Tube. The HD pictures on the
other stations are not affected by their subchannels, so please CRANK UP THE
BANDWIDTH!

Parma

OH

51

WUAB-DT 43-2

Contact Maxtor about it... They may offer a replacement under warranty.

For some reason I thought it was out of warranty, but upon further investigation it is warranted until July. :)

I'll give them a call on Monday and try and get an RMA.

The HD picture look somewhat soft on WOW, at least on my CRT pj, but then again so do the Cavs. Wow, they look tired and slow. Backcourt is O-fer for the night.

Got to see the Cavs game in HD on WOW channel 220 Friday night and the PQ was pretty good, but I thought the center court camera was a bit soft. Good DD5.1 sound mix, and the way the rims were miked, my sub would boom on a good slam dunk!

Also nice to see the pre-game show was produced 16:9 with HD content.

Channel 220 seems to be staying in the IPG now. Coincidentally my box is not getting a power-off signal every night as it was before. SARA is still showing the same version as before, so that wasn't updated (I think it's 1.87.xxxxx)

For some reason I thought it was out of warranty, but upon further investigation it is warranted until July. :)

I'll give them a call on Monday and try and get an RMA.

This is pure speculation, but there might not be a problem with the hard drive at all, it could be that as your drive is filling up and/or getting more fragmented, the operating system inside the set top box can't handle it and it's getting slow.

Based on my experience with the less than stellar SA8000HD's performance, it wouldn't surprise me if Scientific Atlanta never really tested their boxes fully loaded with 300GB - 500GB worth of data in real world everyday use.

This is pure speculation, but there might not be a problem with the hard drive at all, it could be that as your drive is filling up and/or getting more fragmented, the operating system inside the set top box can't handle it and it's getting slow.


I thought of that a long, long time ago. I reformatted both hard drives to defrag. I have also taken my original SA 8300 back and got a replacement. I defraged it before I even used it.

Proof is in the pudding: No external hd, no problem. Add external hd, problem.

And I agree with what you say about SA not testing good enough, still Maxtor claims this hd will work with SA 8300 and is made specifically for SA 8300 only.

When I get my RMA and turn this in hoperfully I will get a good replacement. If the problem occures again, well.....I guess I'm screwed. :)

I'm back and forth now as to whether or not I will switch to D*. Even if they offer HD locals, if it isn't good quality I don't want it. Perhaps the MPEG format will help.


I've heard that D*'s HD channels will be transmitted on a new Ka-band satellite at 17-22Ghz. Besides the new 5-LNB dish that's required, the higher frequency is probably going to be more susceptible to rain fade and other atmospherics.

OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be name@adelphia.com. What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?

Just something else to stress out on. :p

Target date for WKBN-DT: May 1. A post from their chief engineer on the Y-town forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7202234#post7202234
(post 184)

Good news - they plan to go up with their full licensed power of 700 kW and DD 5.1!

The Cavs game on ABC is not looking too good. The center court cam looks pretty crappy. Anybody else noticing this?

The FSN Ohio HD game Friday night looked much better than this.

OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be name@adelphia.com. What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?

Just something else to stress out on. :p

There's no reason why it couldn't... For example, Earthlink acquired quite a few ISP's domains over the years (I still keep a sprintmail.com address, for example) which it allows people to keep, although they usually won't allow additional accounts on those domains, just earthlink.net. Since TWC is NOT an ISP (Road Runner is only affiliated with, not owned by TWC) and both Road Runner and Earthlink, as well as a few others provide ISP services on TWC, it might be more complicated... I guess we'll have to see.

Just looked at my guru buddies Dish setup in Sheffield Lake running 4 tvs and the picture and operation was flawless. The local SD channels were actually sharper than on my OTA Sony HDTV. In my opinion it blows away Adelphia digital big time. My cousin in Aurora has Adelphia and it is sadly lacking in sharpness on the SD channels. The satellite stuff was razor sharp on every channel and he went through all of them. If I didn't have a zillion trees I would have Satellite by now. He doesn't have any HD channels yet as he has no HDTV.

JJK

JJKizak -

Was that a Dish Network or a DirecTV setup? I figure by your post it's probably Dish Network, as DirecTV is really lacking in my opinion in the sharpness category.

OK, guys this is way off topic but since so many of us are going to be affected by this I'm kind of wondering. What is going to happen with the email address? Assuming it won't be name@adelphia.com. What if your handle's already being used somewhere in road runner land?

As someone noted, Earthlink has swallowed up and kept old company E-Mail (I have a mindspring.com address or two, which are now only getting kept on E-Mail usage since I cancelled my Earthlink dialup backup account).

Adelphia won't exist after whatever date it is, but its pieces are getting swallowed by two different companies...so I have no idea if they'll let you keep the old address. One reason I don't use an ISP-based one :D

I got a reply and I replied to that reply. I thought some of you might be interested (thanks to Inundated for his Tube screen shot many pages back in this thread)

I'm surprised that graphic is still there...I cancelled the AOL account a while back (it was one of my "extra" ones I'm getting rid of)...

Of course, to fix it they'd probably adjust the bandwidth to 43.1, which could impact UPN HD. But since I don't watch either UPN or "The Tube", I don't personally care either way...

Since TWC is NOT an ISP (Road Runner is only affiliated with, not owned by TWC) and both Road Runner and Earthlink, as well as a few others provide ISP services on TWC, it might be more complicated... I guess we'll have to see.
Road Runner IS owned and operated by TWC. The Adelphia.com domain will most likely be taken by Road Runner ASSUMING that this TWC/Adelphia buy-out happens across the country and is not localized to your region. If this buy-out doesn't happen across the country then I would be afraid the adelphia.com domain will be lost. Although the possibility exists that the adelphia.com domain COULD move to an independent ISP (Earthlink) assuming that the independent ISP is available on all cable systems that are taking over Adelphia.

BTW, is Adelphia going out of business or just losing this region?

Reference Road Runner Company Info (http://content.rr.com/rdrun/com.htm)

BTW, is Adelphia going out of business or just losing this region?



Adelphia has been in bankruptcy for some time now and Time Warner and Comcast are buying the company. After that they will no longer be in business. A blessing to all their customers. :)

D* was only about $10/mo cheaper in the long run AND you have to buy their HD DVR outright, no monthly lease plan. For me it's not worth it to save $10/mo and get inferior PQ, plus I'd have to add 4 or 5 D* receivers for each TV in the house.
Not that it's likely to change your equation, it may make it worse actually, but FYI D* is going to a lease system starting March 1st. It appears you'll still get the opportunity to have a large up front cost (~$300) for HD Tivo-like equipment, but w/o any of the "nasty" ownership rights. Not sure how this will work for D*, as most customers don't appear pleased at all by this development, but I guess Dish has been doing it for awhile. Monthly cost wise the rental basically takes the place of the mirrored receiver fee so it nets out the same.

Not to mention we don't have HD locals on D* just yet, which is something I gotta have (life is too short to screw around with an OTA antenna anymore) I also really wonder if D*'s new magical MPEG4 format is really going to be as good as HD on cable.
We live in interesting times & it should be fascinating to watch how well the MPEG4 rollout goes and what picture quality comparisons are like in 2 or 3 years. Fortunately I get pretty good OTA reception, so I can afford to wait it out for awhile and live with D* picture quality on the non-OTA channels...

I'm surprised that graphic is still there...I cancelled the AOL account a while back (it was one of my "extra" ones I'm getting rid of)...

Of course, to fix it they'd probably adjust the bandwidth to 43.1, which could impact UPN HD. But since I don't watch either UPN or "The Tube", I don't personally care either way...
According to Ali from The Tube, WUAB-DT is not "squeezing" the bandwidth. I read in another thread that I can't locate to quote from that the poor PQ problem on the Tube is a problem in at least one other market (read my message to Ali).

Bottom line the pixillation is coming from The Tube's end and is not cuased by the local stations bandwidth.

EDIT: Come to think about it, I'm willing to bet The Tube's video library is on a less than adequate video server (perhaps running MPEG1 :p).

Target date for WKBN-DT: May 1. A post from their chief engineer on the Y-town forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7202234#post7202234
(post 184)

Good news - they plan to go up with their full licensed power of 700 kW and DD 5.1!
Good news! Thanks for the heads-up!

Not that it's likely to change your equation, it may make it worse actually, but FYI D* is going to a lease system starting March 1st. It appears you'll still get the opportunity to have a large up front cost (~$300) for HD Tivo-like equipment, but w/o any of the "nasty" ownership rights. Not sure how this will work for D*, as most customers don't appear pleased at all by this development, but I guess Dish has been doing it for awhile. Monthly cost wise the rental basically takes the place of the mirrored receiver fee so it nets out the same.


DaMavs-

Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.

ZmanCartFan:
Yes it is a Dish setup mounted on the corner of his house just under the overhang. He also had all the local channels, 3-5-8-19-25-43-55. What surprised me is the fact that his local channels were much sharper than my OTA SD stuff. That includes the fuzzy WEWS and 43.
There was nothing fuzzy on his system at all. My OTA stuff looked like a "blur" filter was applied to most of the SD stuff but then again it might be the LG-3510A tuner I have. I also had an MRD-200 tuner and a Samsung T165 and they were about the same.

JJK

Just looked at my guru buddies Dish setup in Sheffield Lake running 4 tvs and the picture and operation was flawless. The local SD channels were actually sharper than on my OTA Sony HDTV. In my opinion it blows away Adelphia digital big time. My cousin in Aurora has Adelphia and it is sadly lacking in sharpness on the SD channels. The satellite stuff was razor sharp on every channel and he went through all of them. If I didn't have a zillion trees I would have Satellite by now. He doesn't have any HD channels yet as he has no HDTV.

JJK

I guess it's very subjective. I have both Adelphia & Dish Network and on my Sony 51" HDTV, I find Adelphia, while having more 'artifacts' on the screen, is far more crisp and colorful on their SD digital, local digitals, and all HD content. The HD content is close, but Adelphia's is definately more colorful. Dish can be a bit deceiving at first on the SD material, because they do have a 'smoother' looking picture for the non-HD's, but after years of seeing both, it's clear to me (no pun intended...ha!) that Dish is 'smoother' looking because it lacks the detail & color that cable has. So the benefit of the Dish signal seems to be less artifacts & grain but at the expense of color and sharpness. It just depends on what you prefer to see. The HD is better on cable and dealing with my OTA antenna for the local HD/Digitals via Dish is a pain to deal with. For me, at this point, cable wins. I only keep Dish around because I am grandfathered in with only the HD-Package at this point (you need full programming packages if not grandfathered) and it gives me the Voom channels (which basically suck), a few locals that Adelphia doesn't have and TNT-HD. If Adelphia added TNT-HD and UPN-HD, I'd get rid of the Dish probably. I guess it might be ok if Dish gets a bunch of new HD content, then I'd be 'in' for the $15 I pay them per month! :)

Again, it's subjective, but this is the conclusion I've come to & I've had both for 7 years and can compare side by side.

update - just saw your new post. I'm not sure how locals sent via Dish Network could be sharper and more clear than getting them OTA straight from the networks locally. For the Digitals, it doesn't seem possible unless the digital tuner you have is not doing what it should or it's outputs are not good. For the analog locals, if your antenna doesn't pull them in well, they can be much worse than Dish because with analog, it's not an all or nothing deal like digtal OTA.

All future DISH HD programming will be MPEG-4. Don't be surprised that at some point you'll lose what you have.

All future DISH HD programming will be MPEG-4. Don't be surprised that at some point you'll lose what you have.

I've heard there are some issues with MPEG-4 & it may not happen any time soon. I haven't read up on this in a few months so that may have changed. Also, they wouldn't just pull the plug on a $399 receiver I just purchased a little over a year ago (went from a Dish 6000 to Dish 811). At least I hope they wouldn't do that...without giving me a huge discount on the new receiver. As for the grandfathered deal, I don't know if they can just say you can't have the HD-Package anymore without full programming, but again, I hope not. Hard to say at this point. Either way, it's not a big deal as Adelphia is better for me as far as HD goes anyway with Dish being just a cheap bonus for a couple extras. I suppose I can always keep their receiver for local OTA that are missing from Adelphia (ie UPN) either way.

I've heard there are some issues with MPEG-4 & it may not happen any time soon. I haven't read up on this in a few months so that may have changed. Also, they wouldn't just pull the plug on a $399 receiver I just purchased a little over a year ago (went from a Dish 6000 to Dish 811). At least I hope they wouldn't do that...without giving me a huge discount on the new receiver. As for the grandfathered deal, I don't know if they can just say you can't have the HD-Package anymore without full programming, but again, I hope not. Hard to say at this point. Either way, it's not a big deal as Adelphia is better for me as far as HD goes anyway with Dish being just a cheap bonus for a couple extras. I suppose I can always keep their receiver for local OTA that are missing from Adelphia (ie UPN) either way.

New locals are uplinked to the sat. in true mpeg4, also in about a year all HD will be moved to mpeg4, there is a 49$ upgrade lease fee, pay that then you can have the joy of leasing a dish network reciever! but the vip211 (the new Hd reciever) has a very good OTA tuner!

What surprised me is the fact that his local channels were much sharper than my OTA SD stuff.

JJK

You mentioned that your friend doesn't have an HD setup. I wonder if what you're seeing is just that larger and more modern displays tend to make satellite picture look worse instead of better. If you were watching on, say, a 27" non-HD set, I guess I could see where you're coming from. But unless Dish is just that much superior to DirecTV, I find it hard to imagine that the picture on the locals really is that much sharper than OTA or cable except as compared to an analog OTA signal.

New locals are uplinked to the sat. in true mpeg4, also in about a year all HD will be moved to mpeg4, there is a 49$ upgrade lease fee, pay that then you can have the joy of leasing a dish network reciever! but the vip211 (the new Hd reciever) has a very good OTA tuner!

It'll be interesting to see what they do when they turn off the old HD stream. So MPEG4 is for all the new HD content plus locals via Dish. I wouldn't need those anyway (get them via OTA plus Adelphia) so I'd only be concerned with the other HD channels. I wonder if they'll leave the old stream on or just turn it off when everything is converted. I hope they'll sell me a new receiver at a discount considering the old one is going to be only a few years old. Oh well, I'm not all that concerned anyway, although the added content might be good; we'll have to see. At the very least, I'll still get OTA for free.

Bottom line the pixillation is coming from The Tube's end and is not cuased by the local stations bandwidth.

Interesting. I haven't taken a look at The Tube for some time, but I just assumed it was bandwidth-starved.

Since WUAB is owned by Raycom, maybe it's more likely "good equipment starved".

You mentioned that your friend doesn't have an HD setup. I wonder if what you're seeing is just that larger and more modern displays tend to make satellite picture look worse instead of better. If you were watching on, say, a 27" non-HD set, I guess I could see where you're coming from. But unless Dish is just that much superior to DirecTV, I find it hard to imagine that the picture on the locals really is that much sharper than OTA or cable except as compared to an analog OTA signal.

Yeah I totally agree. Here's a question though. Does Dish Network even have the local HD/DTV channels yet? I didn't think so. What are we comparing the SD locals Dish Network provides to? Local OTA analog or digital channels? If it's analog, it's it doesn't makes sense, because if you have a good antenna that's properly pointed, there is no way that Dish Network's SD locals should be better than OTA Analog via antenna when compared on the same TV. If you are comparing an HDTV to a direct view SDTV, that is not a good comparison at all. HDTV's do make the SD locals look considerably worse than on a standard direct view SDTV so the two sources can't be compared as the TV is what is causing the discrepancy. The only other way that Dish Sd locals would look better is if the local nets were giving Dish Network a better feed than what they are sending out OTA and that just can't be so. If we are comparing analog SD's from Dish to local OTA Digital channels, again, that is not a good comparison as it's apples to oranges. Two totally different things.

JJK, please let us know what the case is and hopefully we can get things straight so you can make a clear choice while comparing apples to apples.

Dweezils:
I wasn't aware that my HDTV performed worse on SD channels (Sony 34") than a regular tv but I am now if indeed that is the case. His tv was about a 25" standard set. If that's true I wonder why this is technically happening? I assumed all of the channels on the Dish system were digital but what the heck weather they were or not they were sharper than my Sony HDTV SD channels and by a substantial margin. My HD is spectacular but why should the SD suffer? Channel 5.1 and 43.1 and 43.2 have pretty ugly SD and sometimes it's "barf" quality. The SD on 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 is ok but not as good as the Dish stuff. If I switch back to the analog tuner the channels seem to pick up in sharpness. Maybe it's time for another tuner.

JJK

DaMavs-
Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.


FYI, I just found this out myself yesterday from the solidsignal.com mailing list. I was pretty shocked... they say as of Feb 28 (tomorrow!) you won't be able to outright buy and own your D* receivers, they will be part of this lease deal. Even if you do buy one today/tomorrow, if you don't activate it by March 30, it will revert to the new lease plan. Pretty screwy if you ask me, but I understand D* needs to give people a low cost lease option if they want to compete with cable in the near future.

Here's an excerpt from the email I received:

SPECIAL NEWS ABOUT DIRECTV'S NEW EQUIPMENT LEASE PROGRAM

There are some new changes headed your way if you are currently
a DIRECTV subscriber. RIGHT NOW may be your last opportunity to
purchase DIRECTV satellite equipment (receivers) prior to the
adoption of DIRECTV's new lease program. Some notes about the
upcoming changes:

(1) Receivers purchased after 02-28-2006 will be classified under
DIRECTV's new lease program. Meaning, all activated units purchased
after 02-28-2006 will tagged in way that requires you, as a subscriber,
to return the used equipment to DIRECTV should you decide to cancel
your DIRECTV subscription.

(2) Customers who purchase DIRECTV receivers before 03-01-2006
have up until the end of March 2006 (03-30-2006) to activate the
unit under the current purchased receiver option.

The important information here is that if you would like to own
a DIRECTV receiver without return lease agreement, now is the time
to purchase that receiver.


DIRECTV RECEIVER MODELS

*Please note that with any new activation DIRECTV requires a 24
month commitment. This requirement is true with leased and
non-leased equipment.

Dweezils:
I wasn't aware that my HDTV performed worse on SD channels (Sony 34") than a regular tv but I am now if indeed that is the case. His tv was about a 25" standard set. If that's true I wonder why this is technically happening? I assumed all of the channels on the Dish system were digital but what the heck weather they were or not they were sharper than my Sony HDTV SD channels and by a substantial margin. My HD is spectacular but why should the SD suffer? Channel 5.1 and 43.1 and 43.2 have pretty ugly SD and sometimes it's "barf" quality. The SD on 3.1, 8.1, 19.1, 61.1 is ok but not as good as the Dish stuff. If I switch back to the analog tuner the channels seem to pick up in sharpness. Maybe it's time for another tuner.

JJK

By the way, I live in Twinsburg as well. I could stop by & help ya. :)

Anyway, now I see what the issue is. First off, you are comparing SD content coming in as 480i (at the very best) via Dish Network vs. Digtal / HD locals coming in as 1080i or 720p via OTA digital tuner. Those are two very different things. To compare apples to apples, you'd need to compare the analog OTA vs. Dish Network locals. And then, you have to compare on the same TV. All HDTV's make non-HD content look considerably worse than on standard SDTV's. In fact, your 34" direct view Sony is probably better than most in regards to SD but still not great by any stretch. There are many factors working here. The first is comparing a 25" TV to a 34" TV. The smaller the TV, the less effect poor quality content has. Even in the SDTV world, a 19" TV is always gonna look a bit sharper than a 32" TV (all things being equal except for size). For an example outside the TV world, have you ever taken a digital picture that looks just killer on your 1.5" or 2" LCD on your camera but when you look at it full size on your PC or printed out, it's all blurry and out of focus? Well, it's the same thing at work there. Because of the size difference and resolution difference, there isn't enough 'data' displayed to clearly see how bad the image really is. Same with the TV's. Small TV's hide the poor quality of the content. As you get bigger in size, it reveals more of the 'garbage' because the garbage is getting big enough to actually see. The term 'garbage in; garbage out' applies here and an HDTV only magnifies that.

Now the next thing is, that you are comparing two very different sources. The OTA you are getting via 5.1 8.1 3.1, 19.1, etc...are digital stations. When digital stations are showing analog SD content, it can look washed out and soft as they upconvert SD to 720p or 1080i before they send it. Upconverting SD content sometimes doesn't look too good as they are only taking probably 200 analog lines at best and then they have to create 720 or 1080 lines out of that! Not all SD upconverted content will look as bad, but it can. The issue is, this type of content can't even be displayed on your buddy's TV, so you can't compare how it would look there. If you could, you'd find it pretty much would look the same; soft and washed out at times. If you could also show analog locals on your TV, you'd find it would look closer to your buddy's TV, but still not as good due to yours being an HDTV.

Anyway, your issue is not the tuner, it's that you are comparing two totally different signal types on two very very different TV's. Nothing you have seen on your buddy's TV supports that Dish Network looks better than OTA or Adelphia. I have both & I can tell you first hand, it's not the case. Let me know and I can help you out personally if you like since we live in the same city or I can chat with you on the phone.

-Todd

Hey JJK-

I assume your Sony is a direct-view tube model and not a projection or LCD/plasma one. If that's the case, one thing you may want to do to help the picture on your Sony is to turn OFF any kind of velocity modulation (usually marked VM in the menus). Also, try turning your sharpening down by a substantial margin. Depending on the age of your set, this may be accomplished by choosing the "pro" mode rather than "Vivid" or "Standard."

I know this may sound counterintuitive, but it actually helps with the "bad" picture that HD sets tend to put out when displaying satellite pictures (or some other digital sources). The problem is that the satellite stuff is so over compressed that you end up getting a lot of blockiness.

Have you ever seen a picture that someone emails you that has obviously been shrunk down to fit within the email? Often you see a lot of "noise" around the edges of your subject. (You can see examples here. (http://www.webstyleguide.com/graphics/jpegs.html)) That's very similar to what the satellite picture does when overcompressing the signal.

The VM and sharpness on your set actually amplifies these effects. VM works by having the scanning gun of your set "slow down" when it gets to the sharp edges that it finds like having a big jump in contrast from one pixel to the next (like black to white). This produces a more pronounced edge to your eye. The designers of the set seem to think that this appeals to people, and in fact in the electronics store, it may give more "wow" factor to people walking by. But when you get it home, what you're actually seeing is a picture that is being displayed in a way that the original picture was never meant to be seen. And when you toss in the less-than-perfect picture that satellite delivers, it can make things seem horrible.

I think you had said originally that you thought that your friend's set produced a sharper picture through Dish than your HD set did using an OTA connection displaying SD material. Again, if you're talking about a digital signal (3.1, 5.1, 8.1, etc.) on your set, what you're seeing is as good as it's going to get without modifying your display settings. If you're talking about an analog signal (3, 5, 8, etc.), your scenario would make sense. A picture can look softer just by the "snow" that you get with an analog signal.

Anyway, if you've never done it, you can dramitically improve your display settings by using one of the commercially-available calibration DVDs. I have an older Sony 36" HD set, and I couldn't believe the difference that using Avia's disk made. It's also where I learned most of the stuff about sharpness and VM being a bad thing. It might be worth it for you to try it out.

All of what you said is good advice, but I'm guessing 99% of what he is seeing is the difference between viewing SD material on a small SD TV vs. on a 34" widescreen HDTV. Plus, add in that he's comparing digital channels vs. analog channels & it's a totally different situation on each of the TV's he's comparing.

One thing to note is that often times, the analog version of a local channel can look better on the SD analog channel than on the digital channel showing the SD material. So that would produce the opposite results of what you are saying would make sense. And I can say without a doubt, SD content viewed via analog channels on a 25" TV is going to look sharper than even digital SD content viewed via digital channels on an HDTV. Of course there are exceptions such as WKYC's digital SD news broadcast. Looks darn nice on an HDTV even though it's SD. That's an exception however & not the norm. For instance, I can watch SD content on a channel like UPN on my 27" Sony & it's going to look far better than viewing the same SD content via UPN-HD on my 51" Sony HDTV or my Sanyo Z4. It won't even be close. When some of the Browns games were not in HD, I found that I prefered the picture using Adelphia's SD locals than using the 704 digital channel showing the game in SD. Further more, the game looked far better than either of those on my 27" SDTV 10 year old Sony. That's a pretty standard scenario.

I'm fairly certain this is the exact scenario that is tripping JJ up. I'm quite sure if JJ got Dish Network & compared their analog channels to Adelphia's SD locals, he would find that they look the same on his TV if not a bit better with Adelphia (and even better via analog OTA with a proper antenna, although at this point, with the other options for locals, there's little need to mess with that).

DaMavs-

Where are you getting this info from? Interesting. Will this be for new purchases only? And is it more of a license rather than a lease? I'm wondering how you can have both an up-front cost and a monthly lease like that unless it's a license to use rather than a rental cost. Granted I don't follow this stuff that closely, but this is the first I've heard of any changes being planned to D*s billing model.
Yes - just new purchases, well more likely leases. If you currently own equipment, you are unaffected. But starting in March you won't just be able to buy new equipment apparently. Well technically it appears you'll still be able to buy from dealers if you want, but they will no longer receive commisions from D* so the cost will likely be far higher. And that presumes it will be cost effective for dealers to continue to offer D* boxes w/o the commisions.

I don't really understand how they expect to get away with the upfront costs w/o ownership, but apparently Dish does now, so they want to do it too. My guess is there will be wiggle room for existing/new customers to threaten going to cable w/$0 up-front & no contract to get big reductions, but that's a guess. In the past I've leveraged some decent programming compensations for purchasing HD Tivos.

I've mostly read about it on AVS forums in various D* threads. I couldn't locate a single thread here about it, but here's one for reference at DBS Talk (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=50899) that covers most of the details and is fairly long.

Personally I'm happy currently w/D* and the HD-Tivo since I have fairly reliable OTA (at least when Channel 5 isn't messing up their signal). Once I'm forced away from the HD-Tivo w/MPEG4 coming though, I have no idea what I'll do - it will depend on what D* offers to keep me and if Adelphia is no more so I can avoid the dregs of cable. If by the time I have to upgrade, D* doesn't offer a good deal and Comcast has taken over Adelphia and is offering a Tivo box, that may be tempting...But too many variables there as of today, to know what the right answer is.

Dweezils:
When I first got the Sony 34" CRT something didn't look right when I showed a DVD and the VM thing was causing that problem so I shut it off and I think the sharpness is set to around 5/8 to 3/4 up but not sure. The mode has always been in standard. WJW seems to be the sharpest in SD and also the stretched SD in 3.1 is excellent. (if you like to look at short fat people) Tomorrow I will check out the SD on another setup I have upstairs in the computer room with the MY-HD-120 card and a small LCD Sony 23" HDTV. I was thinking of getting the calibration disc but I looked at the 1080P Mitsubishi DLP's and they were outsanding. The 1080P's are the first sets that I would even consider among all that are available now. I assume they were showing 1080P stuff because I couldn't believe how good it was.

JJK

The direct upconverting of analog onto a station's digital channel by itself can magnify problems. As noted above here, WEWS-DT and WOIO-DT are the two worst examples of it. Their analog upconversion looks worse even on sets where it should not.

I believe part of the problem is that they do not have digital equipment at the source. WJW obviously does, and so does WKYC (even if it's SD at this time). Gannett is busy converting a lot of its stations to HD local news, and WKYC probably won't be far behind. They have a mostly digital plant anyway, due to their recent build-out about 3 years ago or so.

It'll be interesting to see what they do when they turn off the old HD stream. So MPEG4 is for all the new HD content plus locals via Dish. I wouldn't need those anyway (get them via OTA plus Adelphia) so I'd only be concerned with the other HD channels. I wonder if they'll leave the old stream on or just turn it off when everything is converted. I hope they'll sell me a new receiver at a discount considering the old one is going to be only a few years old. Oh well, I'm not all that concerned anyway, although the added content might be good; we'll have to see. At the very least, I'll still get OTA for free.

At this point, Dish has started local HD channels for only 4 markets (I think!), but Cleveland is expected at some point this year. However, they have also started offering ESPN2HD and Universal HD (the current MPEG-2 version was only for the Olympics). Supposedly Starz HD is coming soon.

Frankly my concern with them right now is the Indians!

for those with questions on the Indians, listen to Moohead radio tomorrow. he's gonn have on the pres of fastball sports. 5pm listen at his site.

http://www.mooheadradio.com/

moohead is a cleveland fan, has a 1 hour radio show online, talks about cleveland sports and stuff. hopefully it can answer some of your questions.



note: i only know of moohead from Indians forums. I've never spoken with him personally before and this is not meant as an endorsement for his show. It sounds like he will have some good info on tomorrow, that I want to pass along.

Dweezils:
When I first got the Sony 34" CRT something didn't look right when I showed a DVD and the VM thing was causing that problem so I shut it off and I think the sharpness is set to around 5/8 to 3/4 up but not sure. The mode has always been in standard. WJW seems to be the sharpest in SD and also the stretched SD in 3.1 is excellent. (if you like to look at short fat people) Tomorrow I will check out the SD on another setup I have upstairs in the computer room with the MY-HD-120 card and a small LCD Sony 23" HDTV. I was thinking of getting the calibration disc but I looked at the 1080P Mitsubishi DLP's and they were outsanding. The 1080P's are the first sets that I would even consider among all that are available now. I assume they were showing 1080P stuff because I couldn't believe how good it was.

JJK

Hard to say if it was 1080p or not. I have seen the new Sony 1080p running a demo unit of the soon to be Sony 1080p player. It looked shockingly good. In fact I've never seen anything look as good as that did. Go to Circuit City to see it. By the way, even those 1080p units need a calibration DVD so it's a good investment either way. Get Avia or DVE and you'll be happy you did for both your 34" and the LCD or any future TV's you get. Even projectors (I used Avia for my Sanyo Z4)

My in-laws have the same TV you have...or at least one of the 34" Sony's (they have the cheaper one that was $1000). It looks nice on HD although not like a rear projection, LCD or the other new technologies. Anyway, I know you are looking for SD that's as clean as what you saw on the 25" TV your buddy has, but again, it's simply not going to happen with an HDTV of any notable size. The best you can do is watch the OTA digital locals when they look good & then switch to the analog locals when they don't. On the other hand, just think how great HD & DVD's look on your TV compared to SD on your buddy's set. It's a nice trade off if you ask me! :) I had a prime example tonight of the effect of an HDTV on a SD signal. I am currently watching 24 on my projector in HD. It look unreal great. I also had the Cavs game in PIP. It too looked good in the PIP even though it was SD. When I swapped and viewed the Cavs game in the full picture, at 106", I can't tell you how friggin' bad it looked. Horrid. But on my 19" Panasonic, it looked very good and in the PIP it looked good (I'm guessing the PIP was about 27" or so on the screen). Same source, just two different displays with two totally different results. I wouldn't trade my Z4 for another Panasonic 19" however. HA! ;)

Get Avia or DVE and you'll be happy you did for both your 34" and the LCD or any future TV's you get. Even projectors (I used Avia for my Sanyo Z4)


I got the Avia and to be honest I find the best calibration tool is the one on INHD on Saturday mornings. They show it I think every 2 or 3 weeks. HDNet also has a decent one.

And the cost is 0. ;)

Hard to say if it was 1080p or not.
FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.

There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...

FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.

There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...

Brillian also makes a 65" 1080P set that has 1080P inputs. It's primary problems are that it costs around $8k and doesn't deinterlace properly (i.e., drops down to 540 lines of resolution before it scales a 1080i input).

A 1080i/60 signal fed into a 1080P set that deinterlaces properly (like SXRD's that retain 1080 lines of resolution) should be basically the same as a 1080P/24 (how data will be stored on the Blu Ray and HD DVD's) upgraded to 1080P/60 by the DVD player or the TV that accepts 1080P/24. Both 1080P/24 and 1080i have the same amount of data and will have the exact same resolution if the 1080i signal is properly deinterlaced.

FYI - it couldn't have been a 1080P input as neither the Sony SXRD 1080P sets nor the Mits 1080P DLPs actually allow a true 1080P input. They both take 480i/480p/720p/1080i and then upscale to 1080P to display. So the native resolution of the display is 1080P, but it can't actually take a true 1080P input. I think the HP DLP (which I haven't seen on display anywhere in greater Cleveland) is still the only TV that will allow a true 1080P input, although some plasmas are coming and may be out shortly.

There aren't many 1080P sources now anyway - a home theater PC is about it for now. I'd guess it was just a 1080i input that was being deinterlaced that looked so good on the Mits/Sony 1080Ps. They are both very nice sets...

I was simply going by what the guy at the store was telling me. He seemed to know what he was saying...but I guess not. I just called Circuit City to clairify their mistake and indeed, the kid who seemed to know what he was saying was wrong. I should have known better, however who knows what's really the case, although it's clear the SRXD doesn't accept 1080p. Anyway, the Sony player was indeed a demo of their HD-DVD player that will come out soon, but it was playing 1080i it seems, not 1080p like the kid told me. Not sure what the player was actually doing however. Ironically, I specifically asked him if it was upconverting 1080i to 1080p and he specifically told me I was wrong and that it was doing true 1080p from the player. I asked him again if he was 100% sure because I hadn't heard of such a player as this 1080p Sony. He said he was sure. ha!!!

At any rate, even though it was playing from a 1080i HD-DVD player, I can tell you it was spectacular! It dusted every single other TV in that store that were playing content from INHD. I asked him to switch from the HD-DVD to INHD and it looked very good still and better than the other TV's yet it was night & day compared to how it looked with that HD-DVD. He told me it was not upconverting the 1080i INHD feed so I'm wondering now if maybe that part was indeed true? If it was upconverting to 1080p, why would the INHD not look even close to as good as the HD-DVD? I've been doing HD for 8 years now and I can tell you, I've not seen anything that looked that gorgeous, yet when it was displaying INHD, it looked like regular HDTV (still very very nice to be clear).

Any ideas what was going on? It would explain it if the Sony only upconverted via the one input that the HD-DVD was hooked into so the INHD was not upconverted. Maybe it would have looked as good too.

At any rate, even though it was playing from a 1080i HD-DVD player, I can tell you it was spectacular!
By HD-DVD, I'm guessing you mean an upconverting DVD player. Sony is a proponet of Blu-ray and will probably never sell an HD-DVD player. Toshiba is the largest proponet of HD-DVD and their units won't be out until the end of March. (there will be a demo at HHGregg on the 28th, I believe) Blu-ray is scheduled for April/May.

Again, since the DVD player was probably just one of their upconverting models, I'm going to guess it was the N70H. This unit outputs an upcoverted 1080i signal. The TV was then probably upconverting that signal to 1080p. Sony's digital scaling has historically been very very good so this is probably what you witnessed.

What material was being shown on the DVD vs. INHD? (Also, which Circuit City was this?)

Ha. CC/Best Buy sales: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle em with b.s.

I went and bought some AW 871 Wireless Speakers at BB the other day. Their lack of knowledge of what they were selling was astounding! They tried to sell me a battery recharger, when the darn thing recharges it's batteries. They couldn't tell me how many batteries per speaker, and you'd of thought I was asking the world for them to open a sample so we could see.

I dealt with a store manager at CC 2 weeks ago when I was investigating the Vonage/DTV calling issue. He would hand me this and that and assure me it would work but everytime I posed a question and a reason why it probably wouldn't work he could not answer.

And then when you get them so tied up they don't know how to get out of their lie it's, "take it home and try it. If it doesn't work bring it back." :rolleyes:

By HD-DVD, I'm guessing you mean an upconverting DVD player. Sony is a proponet of Blu-ray and will probably never sell an HD-DVD player. Toshiba is the largest proponet of HD-DVD and their units won't be out until the end of March. (there will be a demo at HHGregg on the 28th, I believe) Blu-ray is scheduled for April/May.

Again, since the DVD player was probably just one of their upconverting models, I'm going to guess it was the N70H. This unit outputs an upcoverted 1080i signal. The TV was then probably upconverting that signal to 1080p. Sony's digital scaling has historically been very very good so this is probably what you witnessed.

What material was being shown on the DVD vs. INHD? (Also, which Circuit City was this?)


OK...it was not an upconverting player. I am very familiar with all that type of stuff....then it must have been Blu-ray or some other Sony HD player. I'm quite familiar with the whole HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war and have read many articles about it. I just said HD-DVD by accident as I couldn't recall who was doing what as I was typing. I am very into the entire home theater scene & I can promise you it was not an upconverting player. Up converting players do not play HD content, they play 480p DVD's upconverted to 720p or 1080i. I run my Z4 projector in my dedicated home theater off my HTPC with my DVB318 upconverting player as the backup so I'm very familiar with what that looks like. It had to be Blu-Ray. Not sure how to spell it out more clearly aside from the fact that it was SPECTACULAR! (all caps cause it was just that good, not 'cause I'm yellin at ya! :)).

Again, sorry if I come off strong, but it was just a typo by saying HD-DVD. It was playing INHD off of cable in the store by Auroa and it was playing a demo of a beach, flowers & a motorcycle off of a Sony Player of some sort. Not sure if it was coming off a hard drive on it or a Blu-Ray disc.

UPDATE: I called Circuit City back & it was a Sony HD-Recorder that isn't for sale yet that was pre-loaded by Sony with High Definition Demo's. He said that the demo can be downloaded somewhere on the internet but wasn't sure where. So, there's the answer.

Ha. CC/Best Buy sales: If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle em with b.s.

I went and bought some AW 871 Wireless Speakers at BB the other day. Their lack of knowledge of what they were selling was astounding! They tried to sell me a battery recharger, when the darn thing recharges it's batteries. They couldn't tell me how many batteries per speaker, and you'd of thought I was asking the world for them to open a sample so we could see.

I dealt with a store manager at CC 2 weeks ago when I was investigating the Vonage/DTV calling issue. He would hand me this and that and assure me it would work but everytime I posed a question and a reason why it probably wouldn't work he could not answer.

And then when you get them so tied up they don't know how to get out of their lie it's, "take it home and try it. If it doesn't work bring it back." :rolleyes:

Yeah I know. It's unreal how clueless they are. I am usually the jerk in the store correcting them as they tell other customers mis-information. ha!! Not sure why I believe this kid at Circuit City. I guess I just wasn't sure & he seemed to know about this particular TV. I even called him on it & he was so darn insistent he was right. When he was telling me how the Hitachi Projector they sell was so much better than the Sanyo Z4, I shoulda realized he was wrong about the TV as well. Typical I guess. Heck, I had a Toshiba repair guy at my neighbors house tell me I was just the neighbor next door who reads stereo review & he didn't have to listen to me. HA!! Their TV wasn't switching resolutions for HD yet the guy kept claiming the TV was fine and it was HD we were seeing & how nice it looked. It looked horrible...it was HDnet coming in as 480i. haha. He was obviously wrong. He even had his little resolution device hooked up & when switching from 1080i to 480i, the TV did nothing yet still showed the test pattern which he claimed was normal. He was an idiot obviously. :) They called a different tech who fixed the problem. I suppose you can't make generalizations, yet for many of them, if they knew more, they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

I called Circuit City back & it was a Sony HD-Recorder that isn't for sale yet that was pre-loaded by Sony with High Definition Demo's. He said that the demo can be downloaded somewhere on the internet but wasn't sure where. So, there's the answer.

Its Sony's HD-DVR that was available but seems to have been pulled from Sony's site. You can buy it today if you look hard enough.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_DHG_HDD250/4652-6474_7-31155637.html


Sony's Blu-Ray player:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=BDPS1&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_bluraydiscsub

Thanks Terry...I found it. Seems CC is wrong again, but they were closer this time. They needed to say "not for sale" instead of "not for sale...yet". They were wrong by a "yet". :D

Next up...let's see who can find these HD demo's with the motorcyle, beach, & flowers. I'd love to see how that thing looks on my Z4!

I should have known better, however who knows what's really the case, although it's clear the SRXD doesn't accept 1080p.
I can easily understand the confusion. Heck it's non-intuitive that a 1080P TV won't actually take a 1080P input in the first place.

Any ideas what was going on? It would explain it if the Sony only upconverted via the one input that the HD-DVD was hooked into so the INHD was not upconverted. Maybe it would have looked as good too.
Since the Sony SXRD is a fixed pixel display it upconverts everything to 1080P for display - it has no choice. So both InHD & the HD-DVR would have been displayed at 1080P. I'd guess the DVR content input was optimized to look good on the display & also recorded optimally, while the InHD signal would be subject to the vagaries of the cable feed & how many splits CC had prior to the display.

Think of it as DVD vs. SD content - for any well recorded DVD, it always looks a ton better than the same content broadcast typically. Both are 480i sources (at least data-wise), but I think the only 480i broadcast content I've seen that looked as good as DVD was some big dish content with optimal signal & no interference. I'd presume this is the same deal...

This is a reply I got from Adelphia regarding the Indians:

Dear Philip,
The latest release of information from the home office:

Adelphia is working with the Indians toward carriage of their games this season for our customers. We don't currently anticipate any obstacles in reaching an agreement with the Indians. We will inform customers when we have additional information for them. Thanks for expressing your interest.


CLEVELAND -- Fastball Sports Productions President Jim Liberatore today released additional programming details for the Indians television network, which will be known as SportsTime Ohio. He also announced that the long-time game day broadcast team of Mike Hegan, Rick Manning and John Sanders will return and will be joined by WKYC-TV Sports Director Jim Donovan, who will be the host for expanded programming to give fans even more insight into Indians' games and players.

"We are finalizing the details on what promises to be one of the best baseball programming concepts that Indians fans have ever seen," Liberatore said. "Viewers will benefit from the features we are adding, such as High Definition to all of the Indians' home game telecasts [as well as to all of the over-the-air broadcasts that will be seen on WKYC-TV], more programming throughout the season and additional cameras to give the viewer even more to see. This will be a great package that lays a strong foundation for the expansion of SportsTime Ohio in the months and years ahead."

Highlights of the planned Indians programming include: Most games ever -- 130 regular season games, with an additional 20 games to be seen on over-the-air broadcasts by WKYC-TV; also eight (8) Spring Training games will be aired.

High Definition broadcasts with an expanded number of cameras: Fans will see baseball like never before with the addition of high definition production and an increase of two cameras to capture on- and off-field activity. From the first broadcast, crisper action from 10 angles (it was previously eight) and surround sound will help bring the baseball experience into the living rooms of fans.

Weekly program: A 30-minute program hosted by Jim Donovan will look at what's happening in Major League Baseball each week. Don't expect your normal recap show -- the discussion could get a bit irreverent. During the Indians regular season, fans can catch the show's live broadcast on WKYC-TV at 7 p.m. on Monday's with frequent repeats on SportsTime Ohio. During the offseason, Donovan will look at what's happening with players and the business of baseball during a weekly broadcast on SportsTime Ohio.

Liberatore said that Fastball Sports Productions plans to build SportsTime Ohio into a fulltime network that will feature original local programming centering on the interests of Ohio sports fans. Liberatore explained, "We believe there will be strong interest in programming that covers local teams and issues and that understands and speaks to the passions of Ohio sports fans. This can include high school, college and professional games featuring area teams, and other programming -- such as the best historical sports events -- that will be of interest to fans."

Liberatore also confirmed that negotiations are continuing with area cable systems and satellite distributors to locate the programming on those systems. "We believe that our proposals to these systems are fair and reflect the tremendous value of Indians programming, as confirmed in several different viewership surveys," Liberatore said. "We are working hard to ensure that the Indians games and the related programming are available to the widest possible audience, and we encourage fans to contact their cable company or satellite service to let them know they want to see the Indians programming," he concluded.

About Fastball Sports Productions

The Cleveland Indians Baseball Company Limited Partnership established Fastball Sports Productions in December 2005 as an innovative media enterprise to serve a variety of sports programming purposes. Its initial venture is to serve as a regional distribution network for Cleveland Indians baseball games and related productions. Plans are being developed to produce original sports programming that will be of particular interest to Northern Ohio sports fans.

I live in Massillon, about 40 miles from the Parma Farm using a VHF/UHF RS 160" on a 30' tower/ rotor. For the longest time I have tried to pick up WJW-DT at channel 8.1 and have not picked it up. I get the analog WJW at channel 8. All the other HD stations come in fine: 3.1, 5.1 19.1 43.1, 50.1 .2 .3 .4 .
Surfing , I found WJW-DT at 31.3 on the TV. Does anyone know why its found on the F.C.C. assigned frequency and not on its listed channel like the other stations ?
Are there any other stations that send out their signal on the assigned and not the listed channels ? I am really confused !

This is a PSIP data error. These errors come and go. In the past the same thing has happened on WOIO (10.1 insted of 19.1). Keep scanning and eventually 8.1 will lock in.

BTW: You should be able to get 47.1 WOAC. The call letters are not yet displayed in the PSIP data but they are on the air, transmitting from just outside Kent.

Hi, I am a long time subscriber, but this may be my first post. I am a long time D* subscriber, with 4 D*Tivo boxes, including an HR10-250 connected through HDMI to a Sammy DLP. I am considering a change to TWC in Green due to the price increase at D* and concerns about the availability of the Indians this season.

My questions are: 1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.

2) Is the external drive available here? I would need more space than that available on the SA box I think.

3) Has anyone made this change? I care about reliability and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) foremost, and am not sure this would be a smart move. MY wife is an Indians fan, but claims not to see the difference with HD. I expect that D* will get the new Indians feed, but not in HD. I would like both.

4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

cal

4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

cal

Since I don't live in TW land yet I can't answer most of your questions. Where I'm at the SATA is active, but I don't know what software TW is running. I'm with Adelphia. Generally is you have SARA 1.87.XX.X your SATA is active. I seem to remember that Pasport software does not activate the SATA.

However I can tell you that if all SA boxes currently out there will run off the same remote code. So your Harmony can't be fixed to two different codes to run two boxes.

Just listened to the Joe Liberatore interview on WTAM 1100 with Kevin Keane. From what I gleaned, TWC customers are good to go on the preseason games starting this Thursday. (don't know what that means for Adelphia though, that was not talked about) He said they had deals done "with a couple other" systems. Kevin asked if his system, Cox, would be ready by opening day and Joe said "maybe".

I was impressed with Liberatore's credentials and experience, so he's not some newbie to this business. He reiterated that High Def was very important to them and the investment (hundreds of thousands of dollars) is being made in the equipment and production. He mentioned HD a few times, so I got a good feeling that this is a big part of their value proposition.

It sounds like Dolan stands to make a substantial sum with this new Indians network since he won't be sharing the money with Fox Sports Ohio anymore.

I'm off to email my contact at Wide Open West now, to find out if they have a done deal... and as Liberatore said, email/call your cable operator and tell them you want the Indians! Put some pressure on them!

Hi, I am a long time subscriber, but this may be my first post. I am a long time D* subscriber, with 4 D*Tivo boxes, including an HR10-250 connected through HDMI to a Sammy DLP. I am considering a change to TWC in Green due to the price increase at D* and concerns about the availability of the Indians this season.
In general, if you've been a longtime D*Tivo user, you (and the wife) will be very disapointed with cable DVR. There are no season passes, poor conflict manager, no keyword search, etc. Basically the cable DVR is a glorified VCR.


My questions are: 1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.
I thought the HD and SD DVRs were the same rental rate, so you might as well get the HD ones. I could be wrong here as I've never had an SD DVR from cable.


2) Is the external drive available here? I would need more space than that available on the SA box I think.Hookbill has added an external drive, but was having recording issues. Not sure where that one stands.


3) Has anyone made this change? I care about reliability and WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) foremost, and am not sure this would be a smart move. MY wife is an Indians fan, but claims not to see the difference with HD. I expect that D* will get the new Indians feed, but not in HD. I would like both.
I made the change from D* to Adelphia about 14 months ago and will never look back. While the software does lack almost all the functionality of a true Tivo, its grown on me and as long as I'm the one with the remote, my wife doesn't complain. At the time I switched, HD was lacking from D*'s lineup and I was tired of fighting with an OTA antenna. Not to mention rain and snow fade, that drove me batty.


4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?

Not quite sure on this one.

One thing I thought of that might sway you one way or another is the anticipated DVR server from SA. Not sure when it will be released, if at all, but if so, and the cable co's carry them, you should be able to plug one of these into your main line, and then stream shows to your other boxes. I'm not holding my breath for one of these, but we can all dream! :)

I'm off to email my contact at Wide Open West now, to find out if they have a done deal... and as Liberatore said, email/call your cable operator and tell them you want the Indians! Put some pressure on them!

If hookbill's letter above is indeed the "official Adelphia line", it doesn't sound like it'll be a problem. I don't expect Adelphia to show Spring Training games starting, well, tomorrow...but it sounds like they're on the way to an agreement of some sort.

Hookbill has added an external drive, but was having recording issues. Not sure where that one stands.


I've got an RMA on my Maxtor and I'm awaiting delivery of a replacement. I'm positively sure that was causing my recording issues, since disconnecting it last week and going on the 8300's hd only I've had no problems. I probably had a bad external hard drive. I'll follow up a week or so after I receive the replacement and let you know what I find.

However the issue calalli was describing was as to if the 8300 was capable of handling an external hard drive. Again, that depends on the software being used in your area. I don't know what they use in TW land.

I can tell you that from what I've read on the "SA 8300 and External Hard Drive" thread that I have seen no one else with this recording issue but me. So I tend to think I had a bad external hard drive.

Actually, the first game scheduled by the new company is March 12th:

March 12 vs. NYY (delayed 4:30PM)
March 13 vs. TB (delayed at 7:00PM)
March 14 vs. TOR (delayed at 7:00PM)
March 16 vs. MIN (delayed at 8:00PM)
March 18 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
March 29 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
March 30 vs. DET (delayed at 8:00PM)
March 31 vs. CIN (delayed at 7:00PM)

Actually, the first game scheduled by the new company is March 12th:

March 12 vs. NYY (delayed 4:30PM)
March 13 vs. TB (delayed at 7:00PM)
March 14 vs. TOR (delayed at 7:00PM)
March 16 vs. MIN (delayed at 8:00PM)
March 18 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
March 29 vs. HOU (live at 1:00PM)
March 30 vs. DET (delayed at 8:00PM)
March 31 vs. CIN (delayed at 7:00PM)

Clever. And not so good imho. I hate "delayed" games, specially when they delay them with the clear intention of putting them in "prime time" spots.

I don't record live sports either, I like to see it played out as it happens.

1) I would want 4 dvrs, 2 HD and 2 standard, what are the likely boxes and what software are they running? I have read much of several threads about SARA and PASSPORT, but did not see what was available here.
TWC-NEO runs Passport Software.

4) Is it possible to have different remote channels on two boxes so I can run both in the same room with a Harmony?
Since I cannot find anyway to configure the remote channel I doubt that they have a way to overcome this issue. You may want to consider the TiVo Series 3 when it is released as it should overcome the remote channel issue and provide the TiVo features you had and some you never had.

March 1, 2006
Five Stations Sign With The CW
By Michele Greppi

The CW announced Wednesday it has signed exclusive, long-term affiliation agreements with five stations, four of which have been affiliated with The WB and one of which has been an affiliate of UPN.

When the five new affiliates, which collectively reach 4.32 percent of the TV homes in the country, are added to the 16 Tribune-owned WB stations and 11 CBS-owned UPN stations announced as founding affiliates, The CW's reach rises to almost 52 percent of the country.

The newly signed affiliates are WBNX-TV, the Winston Broadcasting Network-owned WB affiliate in Cleveland, the 16th-largest market in the country; WKCF-TV, the Emmis Communications-owned WB affiliate in Orlando, Fla., designated market area No. 20; WJZY-TV, the Capitol Broadcasting-owned UPN affiliate in Charlotte, N.C., DMA No. 27; WBKI-TV, the Cascade Broadcasting Group-owned WB affiliate in Louisville, Ky., DMA No. 50; and WMWB-TV, the Weigel Broadcasting Co.-owned WB affiliate in South Bend, Ind., DMA No. 87.

The CW, a 50-50 joint venture of Warner Bros. Entertainment and CBS Corp., is scheduled to launch this fall and is expected to merge the strongest programming of UPN and The WB.
Source (http://tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=9468)

WBNX-TV had been planning to begin HD transmission in July of 2006, so will it still go HD now that it has become The CW?

Source (http://tvweek.com/news.cms?newsId=9468)

WBNX-TV had been planning to begin HD transmission in July of 2006, so will it still go HD now that it has become The CW?

Well, considering that HD transmission is one of the things The CW is looking for, I'd assume so ;)

The question - how? If they aren't able to meet the deadline in July, which seems mostly due to government inaction than anything on WBNX's part, this could prompt them to send out a cable-only feed to local cable systems until such time as the DT transmitter goes up.

Well, color me amazed with this one. I thought for sure that WUAB would get the nod as the CW.

The newly signed affiliates are WBNX-TV, the Winston Broadcasting Network-owned WB affiliate in Cleveland, the 16th-largest market in the country...


This is great news. There is at least hope now for 5.1 audio on the new CW. If WUAB would have gotten it, we would have been SOL.

There is a short article in the Akron Beacon Journal today concerning WBNX getting the CW affiliation. Sounds like WUAB's penchant for pre-empting prime time programming with sporting events might have been a factor in the decision. You can read the online version of the article here: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/13998629.htm

Saw it in the Plain Dealer this morning. Bit surprised, but I guess this means HD will be up in the summer. Doubtful CW would take a non-digital station (WBNX) over a digital ready and in HD station (WUAB) if HD wasn't being put up before the debut.

Saw it in the Plain Dealer this morning. Bit surprised, but I guess this means HD will be up in the summer. Doubtful CW would take a non-digital station (WBNX) over a digital ready and in HD station (WUAB) if HD wasn't being put up before the debut.

WBNX is basically antsy to do it, but has had to wait for a long time for the FCC to weigh in on those Canadian issues.

The kick in the pants here is the Canadians are years behind the U.S. in Digital OTA broadcasting, yet they hold WBNX-DT ch 30 hostage. I'm surprised that WOIO did not have the same issues with ch 10 or WJW with ch 31.

Back when I lived in Euclid ch 10 from Canada came in regularally while I never picked up anything on ch 30 from Canada (I did get 2 different ch 31's one from Ann Arbor the other form Canada: a CITY-TV repeater). The only ch 30 I ever got was WGTE from Toledo.

The kick in the pants here is the Canadians are years behind the U.S. in Digital OTA broadcasting, yet they hold WBNX-DT ch 30 hostage. I'm surprised that WOIO did not have the same issues with ch 10 or WJW with ch 31.

It's my understanding that WBNX believes the Canadians are OK with their current DT application...they made some slight modification involving the antenna tilt or something, so they're not throwing as much energy north. But for whatever reason, the FCC has yet to weigh in on the latest application, which has been sitting there for a LONG time!

hey guys...sorry if this has been talked about (dang automtic notifiers) I scanned back through the last 5 pages (again stupid email notifiers) and I didnt see it, could have overlooked it, but I am in mogadore (time warner cable) and I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!

does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!

According to this, it's on channel 531:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/fsn_highdef.html

I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!
TWC-NEO has the Cavs in HD, but does not carry a "Fox Sports Ohio HD."

thank you guys, that has made my decision easy! seems like the war has begun, satellite knows local channels like these are improtant, but cable comapnies lock them up quicker-I know about the bandwidth thing, but with all these sats. being shot up in the air, shouldnt be that much of a concern!@

TWC-NEO has the Cavs in HD, but does not carry a "Fox Sports Ohio HD."

That's because other than the Cavs games, there IS no "Fox Sports Ohio HD". It's semantics at this point. :D

FSN Ohio is not sending anything down the line in digital format aside from the Cavaliers games. The Cavs games are produced by FSN Ohio in HD and labeled as such, but it's not like ESPN/ESPN2HD, where they upconvert SD programming otherwise.

So, what he asked for, as it exists, TWC has.

I noticed yesterday that WEAO-DT has started remapping to channel 49.x (rather than 50.x). I was hoping that this was a sign that they were going to get their PBS HD stream back on the air soon. No HD last night. Perhaps the gentleman from PBS 45&49 (I believe it was Don Freeman?) could update us on the status of the PBS HD stream? I haven't seen him post here in awhile. Is he still out there?

Adelphia has added WKYC's "Weather Plus" on digital cable channel 183.

Adelphia has added WKYC's "Weather Plus" on digital cable channel 183.


It's about time. Not that big of a deal really, since you can pull it off the internet.

hey guys...sorry if this has been talked about (dang automtic notifiers) I scanned back through the last 5 pages (again stupid email notifiers) and I didnt see it, could have overlooked it, but I am in mogadore (time warner cable) and I am thinking about switching from dish to time warner (hd-dvr) does time warner cable have the fox sports ohio hd feed, or is it just the indians channel they are getting? anyone with time warner here know? thanks again!


Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.

I noticed yesterday that WEAO-DT has started remapping to channel 49.x (rather than 50.x). I was hoping that this was a sign that they were going to get their PBS HD stream back on the air soon. No HD last night. Perhaps the gentleman from PBS 45&49 (I believe it was Don Freeman?) could update us on the status of the PBS HD stream? I haven't seen him post here in awhile. Is he still out there?
I was just on their Web site. They list "Create" as 45.5 (the guide is showing their Alliance/Yongstown frequency map) Create used to be on 50.1. WNEO HD is mentioned, but "off air".

I'll have to tune in and remap my 921. I bet the clearing of x.1 is a sign that HD is coming back soon to WNEO/WEAO.

I just took a second look at their schedule: WNEO/WEAO HD is on the air from 6:00 PM to Midnight 7 days a week!

Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.

As far as DirecTV goes, I've read that they're supposedly pretty close to an agreement with SportsTime Ohio. D* usually isn't a problem for this sort of thing... they are one of a few carriers that runs the Washington Nationals' "MASN", which is not picked up by Comcast.

I haven't heard anything about Comcast locally and the new Indians network. Maybe they're negotiating separately like Adelphia is, before the TWC merger.

It's about time. Not that big of a deal really, since you can pull it off the internet.

And Adelphia was already getting the signal, as it's a sub on WKYC-DT, which is carried on Adelphia 703 (from 3-1 with HD). They are getting The Ohio Channel the same way, as a sub off of WVIZ-DT (710).

I'm actually surprised how proactive they are at adding stuff, with the merger about 3 months away (late May-ish).

Stuart628 it's up to you but it appears that everyone is going to sign on to the Indians, the only company that seems to be a problem is Cox Cable. At least that is what I read.

I am confused everything I have read and heard states that dish network is pretty much out of the loop and will not be getting this channel, am I wrong!

I am confused everything I have read and heard states that dish network is pretty much out of the loop and will not be getting this channel, am I wrong!

I saw an interview with Jim Liberatore on WOIO news (don't start Inundated! :) ) in which they claimed that there is something on the web from Cox Cable saying that Fastball Sports Productions is trying to stick it to the cable companies. This seemed to be the ONLY company that was really having a problem. In the interview he said negotiations were moving along nicely, even with Cox, and that he expected to have contracts with everyone by opening day. He couldn't guarantee it however.

If your happy with Dish then I wouldn't push the panic button just yet.

Also this has been posted a couple of times:

CLEVELAND -- Fastball Sports Productions President Jim Liberatore today released additional programming details for the Indians television network, which will be known as SportsTime Ohio. He also announced that the long-time game day broadcast team of Mike Hegan, Rick Manning and John Sanders will return and will be joined by WKYC-TV Sports Director Jim Donovan, who will be the host for expanded programming to give fans even more insight into Indians' games and players.

"We are finalizing the details on what promises to be one of the best baseball programming concepts that Indians fans have ever seen," Liberatore said. "Viewers will benefit from the features we are adding, such as High Definition to all of the Indians' home game telecasts [as well as to all of the over-the-air broadcasts that will be seen on WKYC-TV], more programming throughout the season and additional cameras to give the viewer even more to see. This will be a great package that lays a strong foundation for the expansion of SportsTime Ohio in the months and years ahead."

Highlights of the planned Indians programming include: Most games ever -- 130 regular season games, with an additional 20 games to be seen on over-the-air broadcasts by WKYC-TV; also eight (8) Spring Training games will be aired.

High Definition broadcasts with an expanded number of cameras: Fans will see baseball like never before with the addition of high definition production and an increase of two cameras to capture on- and off-field activity. From the first broadcast, crisper action from 10 angles (it was previously eight) and surround sound will help bring the baseball experience into the living rooms of fans.

Weekly program: A 30-minute program hosted by Jim Donovan will look at what's happening in Major League Baseball each week. Don't expect your normal recap show -- the discussion could get a bit irreverent. During the Indians regular season, fans can catch the show's live broadcast on WKYC-TV at 7 p.m. on Monday's with frequent repeats on SportsTime Ohio. During the offseason, Donovan will look at what's happening with players and the business of baseball during a weekly broadcast on SportsTime Ohio.

Liberatore said that Fastball Sports Productions plans to build SportsTime Ohio into a fulltime network that will feature original local programming centering on the interests of Ohio sports fans. Liberatore explained, "We believe there will be strong interest in programming that covers local teams and issues and that understands and speaks to the passions of Ohio sports fans. This can include high school, college and professional games featuring area teams, and other programming -- such as the best historical sports events -- that will be of interest to fans."

Liberatore also confirmed that negotiations are continuing with area cable systems and satellite distributors to locate the programming on those systems. "We believe that our proposals to these systems are fair and reflect the tremendous value of Indians programming, as confirmed in several different viewership surveys," Liberatore said. "We are working hard to ensure that the Indians games and the related programming are available to the widest possible audience, and we encourage fans to contact their cable company or satellite service to let them know they want to see the Indians programming," he concluded.

About Fastball Sports Productions

The Cleveland Indians Baseball Company Limited Partnership established Fastball Sports Productions in December 2005 as an innovative media enterprise to serve a variety of sports programming purposes. Its initial venture is to serve as a regional distribution network for Cleveland Indians baseball games and related productions. Plans are being developed to produce original sports programming that will be of particular interest to Northern Ohio sports fans.

I haven't heard anything that Dish Network was out of the loop at all. I have heard, as mentioned, that DirecTV was close to an agreement, but haven't heard anything negative about Dish Network and their talks with SportsTime Ohio.

And I don't even watch 19 HypeAction News.


:D

(Sorry, couldn't resist ;) )

Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:

http://www.makethemplayfair.com/

Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.

http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPage/0,1943,3259,00.html


With the experience of eKetchum, Ketchum’s digital media-services group – which already has developed online communities and tools for such industry leaders as FedEx, Cox Communications and Cingular Wireless – Ketchum is positioned uniquely to help companies navigate the blogosphere.

Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:

http://www.makethemplayfair.com/

Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.

http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPage/0,1943,3259,00.html


So your confirming that the report I heard on 19 Action News is correct! ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist either. :)

I guess time will tell, but over at satelliteguys.us their is a thread about this, and it isnt a very positive thread but we will see, I dont think it will matter to me anyways, with the new dish reciever I got my cbs and nbc now sit at 66-67 percent and they both have bad pixilation, so wife approvall factor has gone straight down. She is actually the one requestiong time warner for the HD locals, and on Demand, so I just get the added benfit of cavs and indians! but again for the rest of the providers we shall see I guess/ thanks guys.

So your confirming that the report I heard on 19 Action News is correct! ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist either. :)

Even the biggest tabloid news operation can get something correct when they have the direct source on camera. ;)

Actually, I do watch 19 Tabloid News from time to time. It's the best comedy show on Cleveland TV! :D

http://www.satbiznews.com/
on the right hand side under todays headlines reads indians and mets still off of dish network (new york mets network SNY is also off of DIsh network because of contract disputes). I really dont think talks are going well, I just wanted to give Dish network subscribers here in cleveland a heads up!

Then pick up the phone and call TW. I'm sure they will be happy to have you.

Sounds like your wife is dissatisfied with Dish anyway. Just remember the DVR you get may not be as good as the one you had with Dish.

Then pick up the phone and call TW. I'm sure they will be happy to have you.

Sounds like your wife is dissatisfied with Dish anyway. Just remember the DVR you get may not be as good as the one you had with Dish.

Just got off the phone with them, for 74.01, I am getting a hd dvr and a reg dvr, digital cable, plus hbo and hbo on demand, plus roadrunner (which I already have) that is pretty much what I was paying just for dish network, this price is good for 18 months, not bad at all, also an extra 6.95 will get me the Hd package, but I am not hijacking this thread with this info....after reading through the press releases for Sportstime Ohio (who came up with that name? is that the best we can do?) are all 10 cameras at the jake high def? for some reason I got the feeling that some were some werent...does anyone know? and thanks hookbill and inundated for the info!

As far as Dish Network goes, they DO have a reputation of holding the line on paying for new RSNs, and the Indians/STO folks are definitely looking for money. But I don't know how much to read into that one headline on that one site...I'd have to see more than just "still off Dish". They weren't ever there. :D

As far as the cameras, I thought they would all be HD, but I haven't read that they wouldn't. It has been done before, using one or two widescreen SD cameras for non-important shots.

WUAB should just run color bars for the next couple hours. Looks just awful when compared to ESPNHD who is showing the Cavs game at the same time. You never realize how bad SD looks until you see a direct comparison like this.

are all 10 cameras at the jake high def? for some reason I got the feeling that some were some werent...does anyone know? and thanks hookbill and inundated for the info!

I believe they will all be hi-def. Last I heard they were looking at ~1.5gb uncompressed HD throughput for each camera. :cool:

That's because other than the Cavs games, there IS no "Fox Sports Ohio HD". It's semantics at this point. :D

FSN Ohio is not sending anything down the line in digital format aside from the Cavaliers games. The Cavs games are produced by FSN Ohio in HD and labeled as such, but it's not like ESPN/ESPN2HD, where they upconvert SD programming otherwise.

So, what he asked for, as it exists, TWC has.

OP did not mention Cavs games, but did specifically ask for FSN-Ohio HD. No, it's not enitrely semantics as you mentioned the channel doesn't have a full time digital station like ESPN or TNT. Generally when somebody asks if a channel is available, they mean a 24/7 station not a station only available strictly for a particular sporting events. If you expect to see the Best Damn Sports Show Period digitally, you will not find it, but if you are just looking for Cavs alone, you will. So, when the OP asked if TWC carries FSN-Ohio HD, I correctly responded, "No, but they do carry the Cavs games in HD."

Well, as some of you know I have been posting here about the problems I've had with the SA 8300 recording programs but only having a partial playback available. Last week I determined it was a result of my Maxtor External Hard Drive. I have since received and installed the replacement through warranty.

Last night "Cold Case" recorded for a full hour, yet only 40 minutes was available.

On the "8300 and External HD" thread I reported it again. Nobody else has this problem on a consistant basis. I haven't seen anybody in this thread talk about it but I'm sure that it has something to do with 1. Current Software or 2. Adelphia locally.

Does anyone else in Adelphia land have the Maxtor Quickview External Hard Drive connected to their SATA? Please let me know if you do and if you have any problems.

I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do. I'm not willing to try satellite again. I don't want to give up my additional recording space.

This sucks. :(

Not a whole lot of new info here but I did speak to a rep at the STO booth at the Indian's Open House on Saturday at the Jake. I asked him about Adelphia and he sounded like they're close to an agreement. He said Adelphia MAY be onboard befor the March 12th preseason broadcast.

I asked him about Dish and Direct TV and he wouldn't elaborate but did say that the satcos are more difficult to negotiate with and if they do come to terms it would probably be last minute.

FWIW Indians agains NY Mets today 1:00 pm on ESPN and ESPN-HD. Game is in sd but probably 5.1 sound on ESPN HD.

PBS 45 & 49 Digital (WNEO/WEAO) are now properly remapped to appear on 45.1 - 45.4 and 49.1 - 49.4. The change from 50.1 - 50.4 took place Friday March 3 just before noon.
Our HD signal is in deed returning, but I just can't put a firm date on it. For those of you who have called or emailed me since we discontinued our HD service in October, you know that I have repeatedly said "soon." Our delay is caused by an equipment problem interfacing the program automation system and the HD encoder. Now that we have that piece of equipment we are waiting for the automation equipment manufacturer to re-program the system to allow it to control the HD encoder. Will this fix be days or weeks, I truly don't know. When it is done our schedule will be 4-SD channels from midnight until 7 pm, then HD and 1-SD from 7 pm until midnight. The SDs will be Create on channel 1, our primary service on channel 2, the educational Annenberg/CPB Channel on 3 and The Ohio Channel on 4. HD will replace channel 1 when it is on-air and our primary service SD will be channel 2.
Thank you for your seemingly limitless patience. I really hope we'll soon get things working as we planned.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

PBS4549:
Thanks for your update. It is appreciated.

JJK

.

Last night "Cold Case" recorded for a full hour, yet only 40 minutes was available.

Does anyone else in Adelphia land have the Maxtor Quickview External Hard Drive connected to their SATA? Please let me know if you do and if you have any problems.

I'm at a loss. I don't know what to do. I'm not willing to try satellite again. I don't want to give up my additional recording space.

This sucks. :(

Before you pull (any more) hair out... Sunday night: are you sure Cold Case started on time? I wasn't watching CBS last night, but more often than not Football, and then Golf runs over past 6 p.m. and the entire nightly schedule is shifted back by that time...

Before you pull (any more) hair out... Sunday night: are you sure Cold Case started on time? I wasn't watching CBS last night, but more often than not Football, and then Golf runs over past 6 p.m. and the entire nightly schedule is shifted back by that time...

I scheduled the recording at 9:00 pm, a one time only recording. Even if Cold Case started late it would have still done a one hour recording. It only recorded 40 minutes and as I stated I saw the recording light on all the way up until 10:00 pm.

Oddly enough someone else reported something strange happened to them on Sunday night as well, however this person was watching his recording "live" when the picture froze and his recording light stayed on as well. If your interested look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7255635#post7255635). He does not have the same type of external hard drive I have, same brand but different model.

Oh, the part about Cox and their website...it's not a claim, it's reality:

http://www.makethemplayfair.com/

Though their name is not on the site, Cox Cleveland has confirmed it's theirs. The WHOIS resolves to Ketchum, a PR agency which lists Cox as one of its clients.

http://www.ketchum.com/DisplayWebPage/0,1943,3259,00.html
Anybody else notice this statement:
Indians are debuting a new team-owned network, and plan to air 20 less games than FSN ran last year! They are asking some cable companies to pay at least 200% more for this channel!
The "20 less games" are available on free OTA TV!!!! Hey COX we'd still get the same number of games, we just have to tune to WKYC. No big deal.

Great news about 45 and 49, and thanks PBS4549 for letting us know. Bad news about Cold Case, which I don't really follow so I was not that bummed out but I do really like CSI Miami and it did the same thing tonight! It dumped out of record at 33 minutes into the hour. I just happened to see the red light was not on and was able to salvage another fifteen minutes of the show with a manual recording. Sounds like the local punch in ad breaking up the network stream again. Gacccckkkkkkk.

To Don Freeman (PBS4549):

Thanks for the update. I wish some of the commercial stations in the market were as responsive as you! :)

Looking forward to PBS HD.

Great news about 45 and 49, and thanks PBS4549 for letting us know. Bad news about Cold Case, which I don't really follow so I was not that bummed out but I do really like CSI Miami and it did the same thing tonight! It dumped out of record at 33 minutes into the hour. I just happened to see the red light was not on and was able to salvage another fifteen minutes of the show with a manual recording. Sounds like the local punch in ad breaking up the network stream again. Gacccckkkkkkk.

Not the same issue I had. My recording light stays on. I'm learning from another thread that what happens is a freeze occures and even though the light for recording stays on the STB stops recording.

Also I recorded CSI:Miami and Medium last night with no problems.

However during my recording of 24 and The Apprentice at 9:50 my SA 8300 felt it was time to reboot so I did loose 5 minutes on both of those shows. :mad:

To Don Freeman (PBS4549):

Thanks for the update. I wish some of the commercial stations in the market were as responsive as you! :)

Looking forward to PBS HD.

Yes, thank you, Don. Looking forward to PBS-HD as well. Any chance you could give a gentle nudge to your counterpart at WVIZ to join our forum and provide us with an update on their tower issue? Thanks.

AJ