Not sure if this qualifies, but my electrician installed a Whole-House surge protector from SquareD.

Do you have a model or part number for that thing? I've got a lake behind my house that is a lightning magnet.

Do you have a model or part number for that thing? I've got a lake behind my house that is a lightning magnet.

Just a quick search of the SquareD website yielded this:
http://www.squared.com/us/products/surge_protection.nsf/unid/DFD1DBCD6854AFA685256A78006DD636/$file/surgebreakerplushome.htm

I don't know if it is the exact model but it sounds pretty close.

Thanks much. I'll check it out.

Interesting stuff, though a "whole house" thing is not going to work for me. I'm hoping for a separate solution just for the one coax line.

Interesting stuff, though a "whole house" thing is not going to work for me. I'm hoping for a separate solution just for the one coax line.
There's also these in-line type devices , ranging from really small $2.95 devices like this:
http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/jvi70se10.html

to something from DITEK that runs around $45-50 or so (on other sites...)

http://www.ditekcorp.com/productDetails.asp?idProduct=DTK-iVSP

I may try one of these two options...

STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.

STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.

The scoreboard strip does look just a tiny bit higher than normal on my set.
It's still fully visible when I'm looking at the set straight-on though. Since the set
is a little bit overscanned, the top of the strip gets cut off by the set's bezel
if I watch it standing up.

The scoreboard does seem to be a bit higher than in the recent past. On my set it's still completely in the picture, about 1/2 inch below the bezel edge. I like it at this height.

All the Indians runs overfilled the scoreboard. :)

Didn't notice anything here...Adelphia 179.

STO isn't framed very well tonight, both on Adelphia Channel 17 and Dish network. The scoreboard is barely showing on the top of the screen. Are others seeing this? I'm hoping that it isn't my TV.
JT, since you have both E* and Adelphia, do you see any other differences in the PQ?
For example do the graphics have a "sparkly" appearence? This is most noticable on the Ricoh commercial (the cartoon of 2 guys at a water cooler). The white shirts have the same sparkly appearence only more so since there is a larger area of white in the picture. I saw the same commercial on STO via COX Cable and the "vibrating whites" were not seen.

I believe E* has the video level of STO cranked too high.

I did not have a problem with the scoreboard on my 27" Sony Trinitron.

Yes I saw the sparkling on E* last night. I didn't watch the Adelphia PQ for long since the game wasn't in HD and I was just looking at the scoreboard. I'll check tonight.

I'm on WOW and noticed that during today's Indians/Tigers game on STO, the audio on the digital channel 221 was slightly out of sync, while there was no audio sync problem on the analog channel 72. It also seems to me that on the digital channel there was some slight "frame strobing" aka "I can see the individual frames" when you looked directly at the baseball when thrown or looked closely at the bat when the bat was swung. (today's game was in SD, not HD) Anybody else notice this on the other systems?

OK, talkin' to myself here :D ...

The audio on WOW digital STO 221 is out of sync, but -- tonight the audio is AHEAD of the video by a wee bit. Whoa... I can hear the ball hitting the bat BEFORE it's hit, and I just heard Hanford Dixon finish his sentence on the commercial BEFORE his lips stopped moving. Weird.

Also getting occasional breakups on the DD5.1 audio both in game and during commercial.

Edit: To clarify, on my previous post re the Tigers game, the audio was BEHIND the video.

Edit: To clarify, on my previous post re the Tigers game, the audio was BEHIND the video.

You should really talk to WOW about this. It's not an STO issue. WOW is apparently upconverting the analog/SD feed onto 221 and having problems with this...STO is not sending out an HDTV feed (even digital/upconverted) during away games, as far as I know. Adelphia, as far as I know, feeds its own digital/SD 179 from the main STO feed.

Folks in Cleveland's southeastern suburbs or in Akron/Canton - it appears WKBN-DT has lit up its digital signal. Well, it appears so because I'm watching it right now in Akron. :D

Point your OTA receivers at 41 and your antennas towards Youngstown and see if you can get it. I'm in northwest Akron with an amplified indoor antenna pointing roughly at the WKBN tower and the signal is JUST enough to lock and provide a non-breaking-up picture. YMMV.

WKBN is likely testing things, and it could well go on and off repeatedly until they are done.

The PSIP info is wrong - the 27-1 (WKBN) information is for NBC's Jay Leno! 27-2 is an SD feed of WKBN sister station WYFX, until now formerly only on two LPTVers ("FOX 17/62").

More details on the Youngstown thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7516348&&#post7516348

I did a side-by-side comparison last night. E* is definitely cranking it up too high. The whites are sparkling a great deal on Dish. Adelphia's video is normal. Of course, I haven't the slightest idea who to contact about it at Dish!


JT, since you have both E* and Adelphia, do you see any other differences in the PQ?
For example do the graphics have a "sparkly" appearence? This is most noticable on the Ricoh commercial (the cartoon of 2 guys at a water cooler). The white shirts have the same sparkly appearence only more so since there is a larger area of white in the picture. I saw the same commercial on STO via COX Cable and the "vibrating whites" were not seen.

I believe E* has the video level of STO cranked too high.

I did not have a problem with the scoreboard on my 27" Sony Trinitron.

OK, talkin' to myself here :D ...

Also getting occasional breakups on the DD5.1 audio both in game and during commercial.




My receiver shows Dolby 2.0 on Adelphia 179. Are you sure your getting a 5.1 signal, or does it just say "Dolby Digital"?

I didn't see much of the game last night but picture on 179 Adelphia looked go on my 30" Sony Wega.

I think only the HD games are in 5.1 (or 5.0 so far, as we all know!)

My receiver shows Dolby 2.0 on Adelphia 179. Are you sure your getting a 5.1 signal, or does it just say "Dolby Digital"?

I didn't see much of the game last night but picture on 179 Adelphia looked go on my 30" Sony Wega.

My receiver says something like "Dolby D EX" when I'm tuned to a DD 5.1 station, otherwise it says something like "Dolby PL II" on the front.

Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?

Is WEAO/WNEO broadcasting in hi-def OTA yet ? I only get a digital signal with bars when I tune in.

Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?

WOW is reencoding something. My guess is that 221 is set up on their end to handle the HD games, and they don't properly adjust it to pick up the non-HD games. A guess, since I don't know much about the hardware here - the audio encoding is set to handle 5.1 (5.0 :) ) from the HD feed, and they don't adjust the audio to handle the 2.0 coming out of the "analog" feed, causing the lip sync problems you've reported.

Anyway, my general point is that the problem is at WOW's end...we're not having a problem with the digital SD games on Adelphia 179.

Folks in Cleveland's southeastern suburbs or in Akron/Canton - it appears WKBN-DT has lit up its digital signal. Well, it appears so because I'm watching it right now in Akron. :D

Point your OTA receivers at 41 and your antennas towards Youngstown and see if you can get it. I'm in northwest Akron with an amplified indoor antenna pointing roughly at the WKBN tower and the signal is JUST enough to lock and provide a non-breaking-up picture. YMMV.

WKBN is likely testing things, and it could well go on and off repeatedly until they are done.

The PSIP info is wrong - the 27-1 (WKBN) information is for NBC's Jay Leno! 27-2 is an SD feed of WKBN sister station WYFX, until now formerly only on two LPTVers ("FOX 17/62").

More details on the Youngstown thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7516348&&#post7516348

:D Thanks for the heads up! :D I've been checking 41 on my "add DT" screen on my 921 for several days, however I did not try last night. I'm about 10 miles INSIDE WKBN-DT's contour (as opposed to being outside the contour of WFMJ and WYTV)

Indundated, I'm a little confused, I would think WOW would be picking up STO off a satellite in a "digital" format whether the broadcast was SD or HD and just passing that through. Why would WOW need to re-encode the SD satellite feed to put it on Channel 221 ? On the SD games on channel 221, I get a non-stretched 4:3 picture with black pillars on either side to fill the 16:9 frame, so maybe WOW is re-encoding this to add the black pillars?

WOW is reencoding something. My guess is that 221 is set up on their end to handle the HD games, and they don't properly adjust it to pick up the non-HD games. A guess, since I don't know much about the hardware here - the audio encoding is set to handle 5.1 (5.0 :) ) from the HD feed, and they don't adjust the audio to handle the 2.0 coming out of the "analog" feed, causing the lip sync problems you've reported.

Anyway, my general point is that the problem is at WOW's end...we're not having a problem with the digital SD games on Adelphia 179.

:D Thanks for the heads up! :D I've been checking 41 on my "add DT" screen on my 921 for several days, however I did not try last night. I'm about 10 miles INSIDE WKBN-DT's contour (as opposed to being outside the contour of WFMJ and WYTV)

WKBN-DT went off sometime in the 9 AM hour...presumably they'll be doing more work on it today. Try sometime this evening or tonight.

I get it with a middling signal but no problem encoding, behind a window with an indoor antenna pointed in the general direction of the Youngstown antenna farm south of downtown Y-Town...so if you have any decent antenna setup aimed there, you should be able to get it.

Is WEAO/WNEO broadcasting in hi-def OTA yet ? I only get a digital signal with bars when I tune in.

As far as I know, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT have not yet returned HD broadcasts.

When they do, they'd show up on 45-1 and 49-1 and only in prime-time.

As far as I know, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT have not yet returned HD broadcasts.

When they do, they'd show up on 45-1 and 49-1 and only in prime-time.
Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.

WVIZ is running PBS-HD, but you have to live in a 3 - 5 mile radius of Brookpark & State roads to even have a chance of locking onto WVIZ-DT :(

Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.

Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?

Every time I check 49-1 is "Create" a SD feed, even though the WNEO/WEAO web site states that they are running PBS-HD in prime time.

Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?

If you're tired of waiting for 45/49 to start broadcasting in HD, give WOUC-DT, channel 35 a try. Their transmitter is east of Cambridge, OH. I live just outside the service contour in Salem and get a strong signal using a Channel Master 4228 antenna.

Apparently, they're still technically unable to put up PBS HD yet...but intend to do so. I wonder if Don Freeman from PBS 45 & 49 is still reading these boards?

Yes, Mr. Freeman - any updates on the status of PBS HD on PBS 45 & 49? Much of Northeast Ohio anxiously awaits your HD stream! :D

If you're tired of waiting for 45/49 to start broadcasting in HD, give WOUC-DT, channel 35 a try. Their transmitter is east of Cambridge, OH. I live just outside the service contour in Salem and get a strong signal using a Channel Master 4228 antenna.

We do have a poster who is south of Canton I believe who has reported good reception of WOUC-DT.

Unfortunately, I don't think this will help OP Michael in Parma. Parma is too far outside of the WOUC-DT coverage area and too close to Cleveland low-power analog Channel 35.

I intend to try WOUC-DT when I get my outdoor antenna rotor back in service. North Canton IS inside their coverage area! :D

Just received this morning on the STO mailing list:

******
Dear Paul,

Direct TV has made a decision "for the immediate future" in reference to the outer part of the Indians territory. They have decided to NOT pick up subscribers in the outer territory. For a complete list of zip codes that will see the Indians on Direct TV visit http://www.sportstimeohio.com.

For those of you residing in zip codes not listed you have no access to Cleveland Indians baseball on SportsTime Ohio from Direct TV. Your only option is to find an alternate cable or satellite provider. Please know that SportsTime Ohio has worked very hard to inform Los Angeles based Direct TV about the passion of the Indians fans. We are disappointed in their decision but respect the time they took in analyzing what they feel is best for their business.

We apologize for the inconvenience this caused many of you, however, now that a decision has been made we look forward to continuing to deliver a high quality production of Indians baseball to you including all home games in HD.

Sincerely,

Jim Liberatore
President
SportsTime Ohio
*****

I don't think this affects me personally in Shaker Heights, but might affect those of you in the outlying areas.

I am not wanting to shill here....

One of your members in the North Olmsted area has booked my services and I have been putting him off a little until I could get additional bookings in the area. I have committed to coming in the last week of May to first week of June time frame.

You have spent a lot of money on your HD display, now dont you want it looking as accurate as possible?

For all bookings (at 275 and up) received this month LionAV is giving a FREE Ideal Lume back light.

Feel free to email or call with any questions or concerns.

Regards

Gregg Loewen
gregg@lionav.com
201 232 3380

Guys, Gregg has done my DLP twice, and I've been very satisfied with his work. He's a good guy who shows up on time and knows his stuff. I recommend him highly. (Gregg, send the check to my house, will ya?)


The last comment is a JOKE guys. My initial comment was unsolicited and is unrewarded. :)

P.S. I have an ideal-lume light (I didn't get it from Gregg, and he hasn't forgiven me), and I really like it a LOT!. Getting one free is a nice bonus.

I have had my sets calibrated by others and want to get it done by a true professional.Check out his website for more details and testimonials. I spent a lot of money on my HDTV and want the best possible picture

Unfortunately, I don't think this will help OP Michael in Parma. Parma is too far outside of the WOUC-DT coverage area and too close to Cleveland low-power analog Channel 35.

That's O.K., if I really wanted to see PBS HD all I have to do is aim my Silver Sensor out my back door to get WVIZ-DT. My comments re: WVIZ-DT were for anyone not lucky enough to live 3 miles from Brookpark & State. I'm there, but just barely. Perhaps WVIZ will come in better once I get on my roof to put up an outdoor antenna. I'd be the only one in the neighborhood with an outdoor antenna. :D Eveyone else either has cable or rabbit ears. The row of towers along Ridgewood are due north of me. At night I can tell when the weather is bad because the tower lights dissappear in the fog. :eek:

BTW: CH 35 "The CAT" is on one of those towers (WBNX's).

WKBN-DT 41 is coming in strong here in Parma. I got a signal strenght of 103 (out of 125 on the E* scale) when I aimed my Silver Sensor out my living room window (aimed ESE). I get a lockable 70 when the "SS" is on top of the TV. In compairison the other Youngstown stations also hit 70, but they never lock.

This is great news for anyone wanting alternate NFL games without buying Sunday Ticket. Last season there were several times when WKBN and WYFX carried a different game than WOIO and WJW. At least one time last year WYFX (which is now on a SD subcarier of WKBN-DT) had an "early" FOX game when WJW had the "late" game - a FOX double header on a week when CBS had the real double header.

Over at DBS Forums there is a poster who compiles a list of which NFL games are carried by market, and then puts out a color-coded map of the U.S.

Even if you arn't a football fan, WKBN-DT's picture does not suffer from that strange pulsing that WOIO-DT has.

It may be weather-related. I know that under certain conditions I can get all the digital stations out of Detroit, especially during the summer... When I tried 41 here in South Euclid, I got Detroit's WXYZ, which shares the same digital frequency. It's possible that if I move the rotor, I might have better luck.

I'm not getting WKBN-DT quite as good as Michael in Parma, and I'm a little closer (further south at any rate), but if I remember right, he's up on a hill with a good look down in that direction. I have a moderate clearing in the trees out that direction, but probably not good enough.

I had to move my amplified antenna out to my deck outside, and I'm getting WKBN-DT at 60-70% on my Fusion USB5 HDTV tuner. It breaks up every so often, but I could probably nudge that if I kept fiddling with it...which I'm not going to do, because I'm not keeping the antenna out there. :D

It may be weather-related. I know that under certain conditions I can get all the digital stations out of Detroit, especially during the summer... When I tried 41 here in South Euclid, I got Detroit's WXYZ, which shares the same digital frequency. It's possible that if I move the rotor, I might have better luck.
The good news for you is South Euclid is inside the 41 dbu contour, as am I in Parma. WKBN-DT is the only Youngstown station whose coverage map makes it into Lake Erie! As a matter of fact it also covers nearly all of the City of Cleveland proper, as well as Pittsburgh! That's one heck of a coverage area.

I'm willing to bet you have seen the last of WXYZ unless/untill the transition ends and they elect to return to rf ch 7 with their digital siganl. It would make sense for them to return to 7 since it takes less power on the VHF high band than UHF for the same coverage area (WJW has elected to return to 8 BTW and WOIO wants to stay on 10).

I am pleased to formally announce that WKBN-DT (Ch. 41) is on the air at the full power of 700 KW. It has been a grueling past few weeks, but equipment came in and contractors showed up and everything came together on time with many long work days. We do have a couple of minor issues to work out so please bear with us as we work on them, however I do welcome your feedback on signal quality and/or anything else on which you care to comment.

I sure hope that WBNX does something in regards to carrying a digital signal before next season when it becomes CW. The last few recordings I've made of WB shows have had a terrible buzzing noise in them. Very distracting.

I sure hope that WBNX does something in regards to carrying a digital signal before next season when it becomes CW. The last few recordings I've made of WB shows have had a terrible buzzing noise in them. Very distracting.

From what I've heard, they're basically ready to put it up whenever the FCC approves their CP.

Back in February, WBNX submitted an amendment to the WBNX-DT application, detailing how their beam antenna would provide protection to the Canadian operation on DT 30. They've long said that the Canadians gave "verbal approval" for the arrangement...they just needed to crunch the numbers and show the FCC in technical terms, I guess.

I'd be surprised if they aren't up by the July 2006 deadline, and certainly by the time the CW starts in September, but that's just a guess. They are certainly aware of it and certainly planning to do HD.

http://www.wbnx.com/trends.htm

I believe the amendment was made back in 2005 as the letter WBNX sent the FCC regarding the situation is dated January 2005. Basically the FCC is sitting on their asses, but as Inundated said WBNX is ready to go full digital and in HD whenever they are granted the construction permit. All of the equipment, from what I have been told by the station, is already in place. Hopefully with the launch of The CW coming up, Winston Broadcasting's lawyers will be on the FCC's heads until they budge.

I believe the amendment was made back in 2005 as the letter WBNX sent the FCC regarding the situation is dated January 2005.

I did some digging in the WBNX-DT application, and found the latest update was indeed February of THIS year.

According to this information page, the latest amendment was marked received by the FCC on 2/23/06:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1114637

Here's the most recent iteration of the application, with a 2/22/06 date signed by WBNX president Lou Spangler:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101114637&formid=301&fac_num=72958

It has attachments at the bottom, including a new "Comprehensive Technical Document", and a technical document specifically addressing the antenna beam tilt issue.

And here's the wording that explains the 2/22/06 amendment:


THIS AMENDMENT IS SUBMITTED TO CHANGE THE ELECTRICAL BEAM TILT, MECHANICAL BEAM TILT AND AZIMUTH PATTERN OF THE PROPOSED DIRECTIONAL ANTENNA. SECTION III-D, QUESTIONS 10B, 10C AND SUBFORM 10E ARE AMENDED. NEW EXHIBITS 40 (MECHANICAL BEAM TILT DATA), 41 (ANTENNA PATTERN DATA) AND 44 (COMPREHENSIVE TECHNICAL DOCUMENT) ARE PROVIDED TO DOCUMENT THE CHANGES. NO OTHER CHANGES ARE MADE HEREIN.


I only go into such detail to explain that WBNX-DT apparently was told by someone in the FCC to add this more specific technical data. I'm not an engineer, so I could be guessing wrong at some of this, but there has certainly been activity on WBNX's part with the FCC since that letter in 2005...

OK, so WBNX gets itself into full digital gear by next season. I wonder how long it will take Adelphia to 1. Make it availabe to us to receive in HD and 2. Make a digital channel available to us as well.

Of course by that time it may be TW but that seems to be moving at a snails pace. :)

Given that they still don't offer WUAB-DT, it could be a long time...

If it isn't Time Warner by July 31st, all bets might be off. That's the current deadline to get the deal done. There have been a number of articles about the problems from shareholders and various other groups who aren't satisfied with the deal.

Great news WKBN Chief! Thanks for the update and for being here on the forum. I'm sure we will all post feedback for you. I am in Gates Mills and on Adelphia but will crank up the OTA today and report back to you on how you look way up here. Thanks for all the hard work hope your signal comes in for me.

Given that they still don't offer WUAB-DT, it could be a long time...



Not quite. WUAB is available on digital signal on Adelphia. True, they don't offer a HD channel but they do carry it's digital signal.

Since WBNX doesn't have anything but analog as of now, there is no digital signal to carry.

Yes, Mr. Freeman - any updates on the status of PBS HD on PBS 45 & 49? Much of Northeast Ohio anxiously awaits your HD stream! :D
We are still working on a permanent solution to getting HD back on our schedule. As I indicated in a previous posting, the problem is a combination of hardware, software and broadcast rights. I'm with people from our PBS 45 & 49 engineering and IT departments at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention so we can review new hardware that will be more flexible than our current digital encoder. We will also be talking with executives from our automation software and routing equipment companies to push for a solution to those interface problems. That just leaves finding the money to acquire the HD rights from PBS. I've been talking to PBS Programming about our situation and I may have a solution to that soon, too.
I have tried to stay away from promising a quick solution to what, on the face of it, appeared to be a simple problem. If we could have been broadcasting HD since we last did in October I assure you we would have. But broadcasting digital HD, and multiple SD channels, is challenging for the entire industry. Stations like PBS 45 & 49 with our smaller staff and dollars are especially vulnerable to disruptions like this.
I hope you will continue to be enthusiastic about the superb video and audio capabilities of HD programming in our schedule. Until that returns, I encourage you to continue your support of our four multicast SD channels.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations
PBS 45 & 49

According to this information page, the latest amendment was marked received by the FCC on 2/23/06

I should have done a little more searching, good find there!

I should have done a little more searching, good find there!

I check the WBNX application about once a week or so, just to see if there's anything new on it. Actually, I'm mostly looking for that little "APP" to turn into a "CP". :D

And thanks for the detailed answer to the HD question for 45/49, Mr. Freeman! Best of luck to you in resolving all of the issues.

I had my first WKBN-DT sighting last night. Actually, it was good reception in general last night, as I was getting WFMJ-DT with 5 bars on my signal strength meter (usually, I get 2 bars, 3 or 4 at the best).

But it gets better. :D I was flipping through channels and noticed that channel 19 analog was getting a lot of interference. On closer examination, I realized that I was receiving a 2nd channel underneath WOIO. I was able to make out a KDKA weather graphic! Of course, KDKA analog is channel 2 out of Pittsburgh. I later noticed a UPN logo on the same channel. Perhaps channel 19 is the UPN affiliate in Pittsburgh?

So I started tuning through the channels in order and sure enough, I was receiving the Pittsburgh analog stations fairly strongly - 4 (ABC), 11 (NBC), 13 (PBS). I was also getting Steubenville (9) and Wheeling (7). I was even receiving a good picture on channel 12 from Erie!

But it gets better (really)! :D I got up to channel 29 and all of a sudden, I locked on to a digital station! It remapped to channel 8, with a -1 and -2 subchannel. I tuned to my newfound 8-2 and punched up the PSIP data and it identified as WATM-DT. I had a solid lock on this channel for about 10 minutes (this was about 10:30 last night) and intermittent lock for about another 10 minutes. As I watched , the station IDed on the air as ABC23 and I watched a commercial for an Altoona, PA business! :eek: Sure enough, WATM is an Altoona, PA station - that is about 150 miles from North Canton. And the kicker is - my antenna was pointed toward Cleveland the whole time (broken antenna rotor)!

Bottom line - there were some crazy atmospheric conditions last night that allowed good DXing to the east. If you received WKBN-DT last night, it may have been due to these conditions.

Bottom line - there were some crazy atmospheric conditions last night that allowed good DXing to the east. If you received WKBN-DT last night, it may have been due to these conditions.

Looks like the tropo is kicking up early!

I haven't been able to get WKBN-DT with my indoor antenna out the back window since that first night...I have to take it outside and balance it on my deck :)

BTW, the station formerly known as WNPA on channel 19 is indeed Pittsburgh's UPN affiliate, licensed to Jeannette, PA. I believe it's changed calls to WPCW in honor of its CW affiliation in the fall...

How do I pick up 27-1 on DTV. I set up both of my receivers to Ytwn secondary market. Neither receiver had 27-1 listed in the guide. Channel cannot be scanned in unless it is loaded in guide. I have H20-600 and Sammy 160
Can I pick it up in W Akron near Medina county line ?
Thanks

Wow! I just borrowed a friends Voom! receiver and all of my OTA channels came in great. I've had a Samsung SIR-151 for a couple of years and it doesn't receive my signals very well. I didn't know if it was the receiver or the antenna. Now I know. So, I just bid on a Voom! tuner on ebay, but I'm very nervous about receiving a bad unit. The anticipation is going to kill me. The listing seems ok, but the seller has sold a few of these in the past few months with the same item desciption. I didn't think to look at his past sales unitl after I bid on the item. He does have 100% positive feedback.

Would any of you be paranoid as well?

How do I pick up 27-1 on DTV. I set up both of my receivers to Ytwn secondary market. Neither receiver had 27-1 listed in the guide. Channel cannot be scanned in unless it is loaded in guide. I have H20-600 and Sammy 160
Can I pick it up in W Akron near Medina county line ?
Thanks

You might be a bit far out to get it, depending on your antenna and other factors. I'm a few miles east of you, and I get it on my indoor antenna with a lot of adjustment. (Tonight, I'm getting it again inside!)

Others will have to help you with the OTA channels on D* receivers. I have no idea how they let you add channels if they're not listed in the D* guide, or IF they will.

There are some references to the "Signal strength meter" on HD sets. That's not a measurement of the RF getting to the set. More like a "quality" arbitrary reading. In other words, you can have a lot of RF hitting the receiver but if it's getting bounced around inside a room from an indoor antenna or hitting buildings and bouncing to an outdoor antenna, the meter reading on the set will be low or none.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Others will have to help you with the OTA channels on D* receivers. I have no idea how they let you add channels if they're not listed in the D* guide, or IF they will.

I'm not sure how to add channels on any other D* receivers other than my Sony HD200, but all you have to do is either manually add a channel # (the actual broadcast channel, not the PSIP channel) or re-scan the OTA band. It'll gladly let you add as many OTA stations as you receive -- even if they're not in the D* guide.

Check under your setup menu for a channel setup or something similar. The options should be in there.

There are some references to the "Signal strength meter" on HD sets. That's not a measurement of the RF getting to the set. More like a "quality" arbitrary reading. In other words, you can have a lot of RF hitting the receiver but if it's getting bounced around inside a room from an indoor antenna or hitting buildings and bouncing to an outdoor antenna, the meter reading on the set will be low or none.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

You are very correct. I don't know exactly what they measure, but from the experience I've had they are more like bit-error-rate (BER) meters. They look at the quality of the bitstream rather than signal strength. It is a much better way to tune digital receivers. In certain circumstances where there is too much RF I've gotten better "signal" readings by mistuning the antenna or by adding attenuators on the antenna lead. With digital, more is not necessarily better. That's why these people that have preamps and live 10 miles from an antenna farm have so many problems.

You are very correct. I don't know exactly what they measure, but from the experience I've had they are more like bit-error-rate (BER) meters. They look at the quality of the bitstream rather than signal strength. It is a much better way to tune digital receivers. In certain circumstances where there is too much RF I've gotten better "signal" readings by mistuning the antenna or by adding attenuators on the antenna lead. With digital, more is not necessarily better. That's why these people that have preamps and live 10 miles from an antenna farm have so many problems.

Right on!!

WKBN-DT is back with my indoor antenna placement. Maybe Bob Fils or Tom Zocolo can answer this - how do weather conditions affect such things? Is it easier to receive a distant station when there's cloud cover, sunshine or what?

Just got done watching "FOX 17/62 First News at 10" or whatever they call the WYFX version of "27 First News" and was reminded that WTAM/1100 parttimer Chad Krispinsky does their weekend sports...

Now, us ID geeks can't wait to see "WKBN-DT Youngstown" added to the "WYFX-LP Youngstown/WFXI-CA Mercer" ID on the slides. :D

The sound was clear crisp and sharp, but what a waste of Dolby 5.1. I didn't hear a thing out of my rear speakers. I tried boosting the signal as high as I could get it to go and got nothing.

You compare this with almost any other HD sportscast and it's just a dissapointment. Come on, STO you've got 5 speakers. Use them. Make me feel like I'm in the middle of the crowd.

I find the same true of STO's HD broadcast, though from time to time I though I heard a bit of the crowd in the rear speakers.

I switched at 4:30 to watch the Dodgers play on MLB EI and my Pro Logic II did a better job then WKYC's Dolby 5.1. Outcome was better too. :)

Wow! I just borrowed a friends Voom! receiver and all of my OTA channels came in great. I've had a Samsung SIR-151 for a couple of years and it doesn't receive my signals very well. I didn't know if it was the receiver or the antenna. Now I know. So, I just bid on a Voom! tuner on ebay, but I'm very nervous about receiving a bad unit. The anticipation is going to kill me. The listing seems ok, but the seller has sold a few of these in the past few months with the same item desciption. I didn't think to look at his past sales unitl after I bid on the item. He does have 100% positive feedback.

Would any of you be paranoid as well?

I have a Voom reciever that is yours for the taking.

I have a Voom reciever that is yours for the taking.

I sent you a PM. :cool:

Word out here at the National Association of Broadcasters Convention in Las Vegas is that WEWS is also jumping into the HD news race. Making Cleveland the only town to have three HD news casts. WJW, WKYC (coming soon) and WEWS (on the drawing boards).

The sound was clear crisp and sharp, but what a waste of Dolby 5.1. I didn't hear a thing out of my rear speakers. I tried boosting the signal as high as I could get it to go and got nothing.

You compare this with almost any other HD sportscast and it's just a dissapointment. Come on, STO you've got 5 speakers. Use them. Make me feel like I'm in the middle of the crowd.

I find the same true of STO's HD broadcast, though from time to time I though I heard a bit of the crowd in the rear speakers.

I switched at 4:30 to watch the Dodgers play on MLB EI and my Pro Logic II did a better job then WKYC's Dolby 5.1. Outcome was better too. :)

I'm not an audio person by any means, but I honestly don't think STO has the equipment to do the full 5.1 surround. I think they're very limited with their baseball audio board.

I'm not an audio person by any means, but I honestly don't think STO has the equipment to do the full 5.1 surround. I think they're very limited with their baseball audio board.

I'm not an audio engineer either but my commen sense says if your capable of sending out 5.1 (or as in the STO broadcast, 5.0) you should have an engineer who can turn a knob to put some sound in the rear speakers.

Unless they are using antique audio gear, they should be able to do a 5.1 mix by routing a stereo pair of "ambiance" mics to a pair of subchannels. Most audio boards have at least 8 subchannels to use for this purpose.

The STO crew seems to be just learning how to do audio for a baseball broadcast. For example the sound of the baseball hitting the catcher's mit is turned up so loud that the whole audio level "ducks" (drops down so as not to go over the maximum audio peak level). The ducking sometimes affects the first words spoken by the comentators.

OTOH They seem to have other aspects of baseball TV audio down: when they show the camera in the bullpen the mics in the bullpen come on (so you can hear the baseball hit the catcher's mit while warm-ups are in progress) and go back off as soon as the shot changes.

Looks like the tropo is kicking up early!

I haven't been able to get WKBN-DT with my indoor antenna out the back window since that first night...I have to take it outside and balance it on my deck :)

BTW, the station formerly known as WNPA on channel 19 is indeed Pittsburgh's UPN affiliate, licensed to Jeannette, PA. I believe it's changed calls to WPCW in honor of its CW affiliation in the fall...

You are right about channel 19 in Jeannette, PA. I found out that it has the same ownership as KDKA (CBS Station Group or something like that), which explains the KDKA weather graphic that I saw. Apparently, KDKA produces WPCW's 10:00 newscast.

Isn't tropo great? :D

You are right about channel 19 in Jeannette, PA. I found out that it has the same ownership as KDKA (CBS Station Group or something like that), which explains the KDKA weather graphic that I saw. Apparently, KDKA produces WPCW's 10:00 newscast.

Isn't tropo great? :D

Yep, though I've pretty much never experienced it for TV! I did for FM once. I was receiving an FM station just across the PA/OH border in my home on the other side of Akron, near Wadsworth. That doesn't sound much until you realize it was a 3,000 watt station about 75 miles east...which normally doesn't make it anywhere near here.

And KDKA produces the "UPN Pittsburgh" (to be CW) 10 PM cast much like WOIO/19 produces the 10 PM news on WUAB/43. Same situation.

WJW's SkyFox helicopter was at NAB convention in Las Vegas this week, and it's outfitted with a FLIR HD camera/housing, and HD microwave transmission gear. Salesman with US Helicopter said they should go HD with it in June, I thought they'd push for May with sweeps.

Does anyone have any information on the Cavs playoff games in HD on Adelphia on any ch. other then ESPN (which in my opinion is worse then both fsn and tnt HD)?

Does anyone have any information on the Cavs playoff games in HD on Adelphia on any ch. other then ESPN (which in my opinion is worse then both fsn and tnt HD)?

Nope, as far as I know.

WUAB/43 is carrying some playoff games (no HD) and FSN Ohio is carrying some others.

FSN Ohio's games will not, as far as I know, be in HD. Even if Adelphia had TNT HD, it'd probably be blacked out in favor of FSN Ohio (local rights, not contingent on HD coverage).

Here's the overall schedule:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/first_round_local_tv_060421.html

FSN Ohio gets two games, tonight and May 3 (if necessary).

ABC would likely telecast Game 7 (if necessary) on May 7, and that'd probably be in HD.

I'll let you guys know if it's on Dish TNT HD tonight. I'm keeping my Dish around until the playoffs are done, then it's gone since my 811 reciever can only get the older channels & not anything they add going forward.

Unfortunately, it was indeed on TNT-HD. It might have been better if it was blacked out! :rolleyes:

ANyone getting tonights tribe game in HD on adelphia?

No HD here in Adelphia Land (macedonia). Kinda funy that they just spashed the HD banner.

ANyone getting tonights tribe game in HD on adelphia?

Nope, getting the gray screen, on Adelphia 798.

Anybody else on other systems having problems?

Looks like its back online.

I've got DirecTV, no STO in HD, but they blacked out the ESPN HD Channel for the Indians tonight. That Stinks!

Well, thanks to rrobin's generosity, I now am a part of the HD era! In 480p res because Fedex stiffed me on my new projector this morning. :mad: But, just being able to see what I should have tomorrow is very cool indeed. All of the normal locals come in great. 3, 5, 8, 19, 25, and 43. I don't have a strong enough signal for 55 yet, but I didn't have a chance to go on the roof to adjust the antenna a little bit.

I do have a quick question. Am I the only one who is having problems with Channel 3's aspect ratios? I was watching Dateline before I came up here to post and it seems like it should be 4:3. Everyone seemed stretched out. Same thing with Deal or No Deal. And the commercials for Crossing Jordan, Vegas, etc. has black bars on top and bottom. My other stations were fine, leading me to believe that 3 is the problem, but since I'm new to this, I may be over looking something. How's everyone else's 3?

Anyway, I am very happy to finally have a working tuner so I can take advantage of the HT equipment.

Thanks, rrobins!
Geo

I do have a quick question. Am I the only one who is having problems with Channel 3's aspect ratios? I was watching Dateline before I came up here to post and it seems like it should be 4:3. Everyone seemed stretched out. Same thing with Deal or No Deal. And the commercials for Crossing Jordan, Vegas, etc. has black bars on top and bottom. My other stations were fine, leading me to believe that 3 is the problem, but since I'm new to this, I may be over looking something. How's everyone else's 3?



WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.

WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.

Ok, thanks. I think that's pretty silly :rolleyes: , but at least the problem isn't on my end.

WKYC stretches everything on it's HD channel that is not HD.


I've complained about this I don't know how many times. They just don't get it!

I've been told multiple times when I've called that their General Manager likes it that way. Why, I have no idea.

I don't have a strong enough signal for 55 yet, but I didn't have a chance to go on the roof to adjust the antenna a little bit.

If you're going to go up on the roof to adjust the antenna to get the digital signal out of WBNX/55, you should probably wait a couple or three months or so. They're not even on the air on WBNX-DT yet, due to long-discussed-here issues with coordinating their signal with a Canadian station.

Other than that...sounds good!

Yeah the no TNT issue on adelphia is horrible come playoff time, I just hate watching the games in SD on my HD TV's knowing what my digi cable bill is every month. Hopefully when TWC takes over we will benefit from gaining their hd lineup. However, lets hope it doesn't work in reverse with us dropping espn2 and a few premiums. No idea why warner has no espn2 hd when the added espn it wa slike 2 days before espn2 launched you would figure that would have contracted for boh. Especially since consumers pay monthly for the channels. Hell I know cable companies fought for this insain law not forcing them to carry every channel to come out in digi to save bandwidth that would be used on gospil radio and music video channel 5, but really is there any reason not to have all the HD channels? Think about it TNT if you authorized adelphia to carry your channel and had them charge consumers $5 a month for just your channel people like me would pay because whats another $5 for a channel I have playing a good part of the day. You are already incurring the expense of broadcasting in HD make a little money while you are negotiating w/ bad cable providers like ours. Just my 2 cents. Until then I will just keep going to the Cavs games, but one would have hoped FSN ohio or a tleast abc would have gotten sundays away game and put it in hd for the cleveland viewers. Not to mention how horrible adelphia's feed is on 61 and they can't/ won't fix. Warner would tar apart all your cable lines and replace before you go t another company if enough people complain. Had an entire appartment/condo complex rewired in columbus, analog picture quality was as clsoe to digi as u will ever see.

If you're going to go up on the roof to adjust the antenna to get the digital signal out of WBNX/55, you should probably wait a couple or three months or so. They're not even on the air on WBNX-DT yet, due to long-discussed-here issues with coordinating their signal with a Canadian station.


The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV

The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV

Ok, they just aren't up and running yet. Makes sense. Well, it looks like I'll take a little longer before I retire that VCR. :)

The issues are OVER! The FCC has granted WBNX a construction permit for digital channel 30 (UHF).

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WBNX-TV

There we go! Finally. It looks like the beam tilt stuff they filed in February pushed it over the top.

It should be intersting to see if there will be any adjacent channel interference with WJW. The two towers are only about 2 miles apart.

There we go! Finally. It looks like the beam tilt stuff they filed in February pushed it over the top.
Great! Now all we have to do is wait a little bit longer and then we can not watch WBNX on DT as well as analog. :D

Great! Now all we have to do is wait a little bit longer and then we can not watch WBNX on DT as well as analog. :D

:D

I'm not really a regular watcher of either WBNX or anything currently offered by The WB - I'm a tad out of their usual demographic target - but I still think it's good that another DT and HDTV station is going on.

It should be intersting to see if there will be any adjacent channel interference with WJW. The two towers are only about 2 miles apart.

From what I understand, broadcasting digitally from adjacent channels is OK as long as the sticks are in fairly close proximity - the closer, the better. Two miles sounds a bit far, but is probably still OK. Of course, WJW-DT will go back to channel 8 after analog shutoff, rendering that issue moot after 2009.

:D

I'm not really a regular watcher of either WBNX or anything currently offered by The WB - I'm a tad out of their usual demographic target - but I still think it's good that another DT and HDTV station is going on.

Well, I'm more out of their target then you are and I watch Smallville and Supernatural. Matter of fact Supernatural plays great classic rock, which surprises me since I know that's not the audience they are shooting for. I personally can't wait until they go digital, I just hope Adelphia makes it available at least digitally soon.

I have Dish Network and lately they've been blocking out a lot of Indians games on ESPN (or ESPN2) in favor of STO. Does anyone know if tonight's Cavs game will be blocked out on ESPN because of the coverage on WUAB? The program guide does NOT have the little circle with a line through it symbol like when a show is blocked out for an area, but I just wanted to make sure because I'm having friends over and would obviously rather watch it on ESPN-HD than crappy WUAB.

thanks.

If WUAB is getting their feed from ESPN (like often happens when ESPN carries a local football game), ESPN shouldn't be blacked out.

NBA is different than MLB. We always get both feeds on NBA. ESPNand FSN or WUAB
MLB games on ESPN are blacked out i shown on STO
It has always been that way

Yeah the last few ESPN-HD games with the Cavs have been shown & not blacked out on Dish (or Adelphia). I'd bet that'll be the case tonight.

ESPN is not blacked out for Cavs/Wizards tonight, at least on Adelphia.

ESPN-HD not blacked out on WOW either.

On another note - on WOW, they show the Indians replay game on the SD channel but not on the HD channel -- what about Adelphia and the other systems ?

P.S.: Went to the Tribe game Thursday night, and they show the game in HD on the multiple plasmas in the Club Lounge :D

On another note - on WOW, they show the Indians replay game on the SD channel but not on the HD channel -- what about Adelphia and the other systems ?

Same with Adelphia - replay only on digital (SD) 179. Not on 17, and not on 798.

179 would appear to directly take the satellite feed from STO without switching, as it comes up with "No signal" outside of STO programming. 17 gets switched to the community bulletin board after live Tribe games, and 798 gets switched to the static billboard for the next HD event (in this case, tomorrow's Indians game).

Another curious thing about STO - during the Kansas City series, game 2 was SD on STO, but when watching game 3 on WKYC in HD, they showed highlights of game 2 in HD - so I'm getting the impression that ALL the games are being shot in HD but for some reason the AWAY games are not being passed to us live in HD except for the WKYC games.

Another curious thing about STO - during the Kansas City series, game 2 was SD on STO, but when watching game 3 on WKYC in HD, they showed highlights of game 2 in HD - so I'm getting the impression that ALL the games are being shot in HD but for some reason the AWAY games are not being passed to us live in HD except for the WKYC games.

I wouldn't guess that. I'd guess that the HD truck may have been there for the game right before the WKYC game, but I wouldn't assume it was there for the entire series.

Just a guess, tho.

I wouldn't guess that. I'd guess that the HD truck may have been there for the game right before the WKYC game, but I wouldn't assume it was there for the entire series.

Just a guess, tho.


Because of ease of set-up and tear down, depending on availability of HD trucks, it's typically easier just to keep the HD truck there the whole series (even if only one game actually airs in HD). They have a contract for their away games with a truck company that has one HD truck and two SD trucks, so it's most likely they just parked the truck there for the series.

They may also be able to bring home highlights for use in the studio shows, called a "melt." That's something as simple as bringing a DVCPRO-HD tape, or X-File disk drive.

Because of ease of set-up and tear down, depending on availability of HD trucks, it's typically easier just to keep the HD truck there the whole series (even if only one game actually airs in HD). They have a contract for their away games with a truck company that has one HD truck and two SD trucks, so it's most likely they just parked the truck there for the series.

But, if the HD truck is there, why do they not air the game in HD? Is it satellite issues, or the fact they didn't know they were going to have the HD truck to air the away game in HD, or just that STO isn't doing away games in HD for now and it's easier that way?

Or a combo of the above? :D

(One from column A...)

But, if the HD truck is there, why do they not air the game in HD? Is it satellite issues, or the fact they didn't know they were going to have the HD truck to air the away game in HD, or just that STO isn't doing away games in HD for now and it's easier that way?

Or a combo of the above? :D

(One from column A...)


Satellite/fiber transmission. It's pretty expensive. I don't know the actual numbers, I'll find out, but I want to say it's near double/triple the cost. The other question is how is the truck deal worked. Maybe they're only paying for the HD truck for the one day, but the truck company comps them the HD truck for the SD rate the other days that they're not paying for HD because it's easier for the truck company to keep it parked.

I think full HD for STO is not far off. It would have been great if they started initially with all HD, but I'm happy we have this much. With the Red Sox and Yankees doing more road HD games I think it's inevitable that the new network will be all HD within the next few years. Especially as more HD trucks roll out and transmission costs come down.

WJW's SkyFox helicopter was at NAB convention in Las Vegas this week, and it's outfitted with a FLIR HD camera/housing, and HD microwave transmission gear. Salesman with US Helicopter said they should go HD with it in June, I thought they'd push for May with sweeps.

I walked past that chopper and took a picture of it. Had I realized that it was Fox-8's I would've taken a few more shots of it and the FLIR in particular.
:D

I came away from the show with the sense that if your next camera purchase isn't HD, you might as well be shooting in black and white. We seem to be at the cusp of a massive wave of modestly priced HD gear, so we should be seeing a lot more locally produced HD content soon.

I think full HD for STO is not far off. It would have been great if they started initially with all HD, but I'm happy we have this much. With the Red Sox and Yankees doing more road HD games I think it's inevitable that the new network will be all HD within the next few years. Especially as more HD trucks roll out and transmission costs come down.

I believe STO intends to do all games in HD in 2007. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

Thank you for the insight!

I walked past that chopper and took a picture of it. Had I realized that it was Fox-8's I would've taken a few more shots of it and the FLIR in particular.
:D

I came away from the show with the sense that if your next camera purchase isn't HD, you might as well be shooting in black and white. We seem to be at the cusp of a massive wave of modestly priced HD gear, so we should be seeing a lot more locally produced HD content soon.

I could count on my hand the stuff I saw only in SD. Most of which were from companies I doubt will be around at NAB '07 or '08.

It's funny I told my Operations VP as I walked away from SkyFOX that I should have taken photos to post! I noticed it had the Helinet transmission equipment which is supposed to be pretty high bandwidth good quality HD. The only other alternative I know of is what Goodyear Blimp uses, a JVC encoder that uses it's existing analog microwave and a decoder at the dish.

I believe STO intends to do all games in HD in 2007. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

Thank you for the insight!


That'd be a great question to post for Jim Liberatore. I know he answered some questions on the one guys Ohio media board.

The ESPN Sunday Night Baseball director told me Saturday that the Indians/Rangers game is "ESPN lite." With NBA playoffs going on they cut his cameras in half. Though still expect CableCam and a lot of the dugout POV cameras. Honestly, they probably have too many to begin with and you won't notice much of a difference at home.

okay so I just did a quick rescan, and I know this is old, but I feel really really bad for youngstown fox/cbs channel (no hd) I guess we have it made here in cleveland!

The ESPN Sunday Night Baseball director told me Saturday that the Indians/Rangers game is "ESPN lite." With NBA playoffs going on they cut his cameras in half. Though still expect CableCam and a lot of the dugout POV cameras. Honestly, they probably have too many to begin with and you won't notice much of a difference at home.


Indians looked great on ESPN HD. So many more camera angles we don't normally see. All the HD handheld cameras roaming the field, and going into the bullpen walking around. You'd think with STO being owned by the team they'd have this kind of access! STO doesn't even have the HD scenics outside the ballpark that make the city look so good (though they do have a supercool pole camera out in left field that looks great in HD).

okay so I just did a quick rescan, and I know this is old, but I feel really really bad for youngstown fox/cbs channel (no hd) I guess we have it made here in cleveland!

There is HD on WKBN-DT, only just on the CBS side (27-1).

There is no HD on the FOX 17/62 side (27-2) because you can only fit one HD stream at a time.

Many folks in the Youngstown market have a shot at either WJW-DT or WPGH-DT for FOX in HD, particularly with a decent antenna.

I'm guessing that the next time FOX has the Super Bowl, the station could temporarily reverse the situation (CBS in SD, FOX in HD), but if that's possible technically, it would probably take something that big. Or maybe if the Indians went to the World Series again. :D

Yeah I saw I spoke too soon on that one, but still, I would be pitching a fit, Fox and CBS are some of the most watched Hd in my house. I dont think this will happen but sundays should be good if Youngstown has different football games on ( I dont think they do) but, anyways thanks for correcting me, and sorry I didnt edit that quick enough, I still feel bad though as like I said that is 80% of our viewage is both Fox and CBS. by the way hookbill how has your cable been? My time warner here in mogadore is shot, all 3 of us neighbors who switched from Dish to get the HDDVR, marched right back to sat because of resets, reboots, and no service, it was good for two weeks, then took a turn for the worst!

FYI, Since Tuesday's noon game isn't on STO, it looks like ESPNHD will not be blacked out here.

Yeah I saw I spoke too soon on that one, but still, I would be pitching a fit, Fox and CBS are some of the most watched Hd in my house. I dont think this will happen but sundays should be good if Youngstown has different football games on ( I dont think they do) but, anyways thanks for correcting me, and sorry I didnt edit that quick enough, I still feel bad though as like I said that is 80% of our viewage is both Fox and CBS. by the way hookbill how has your cable been? My time warner here in mogadore is shot, all 3 of us neighbors who switched from Dish to get the HDDVR, marched right back to sat because of resets, reboots, and no service, it was good for two weeks, then took a turn for the worst!
If you want to know when Youngstown is gong to show a different NFL game check out this site: http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html

This site is maintained by JPKirby who is a regular posted over at the DBS boards.
Usually the CBS games match WOIO, you will always get the Browns first, the Steelers second. Sometimes when CBS has the doubleheader the FOX side may have a 1 PM game on WYFX and a 4 PM game on WJW. So getting WYFX (albeit in SD) will give us possibly one more OTA game than before.

Here is an example from last season where WYFX had a 1 PM game while WJW had to carry a 4 PM game:
http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005wk3-fox.gif

Anybody else notice improved reception on WKYC-DT last night? I haven't gotten anything from them in weeks until last night. I wonder if that has anything to do with the weather front that passed through yesterday?

I was watching election results on WUAB-DT's "19 Action News at 10" (I know, I know...) :D last night. Their election results graphic at the bottom of the screen was so absurdly small it was barely readable. I know I only have a 30-inch TV - I suppose that WUAB expects anybody watching their digital channel to have at least a 50-inch screen. Of course, they have enough room on the screen to run their usual logo and graphic (with reporters name, location, etc), which takes up about 1/4 of the screen!

Anybody else notice improved reception on WKYC-DT last night? I haven't gotten anything from them in weeks until last night. I wonder if that has anything to do with the weather front that passed through yesterday?

What I've noticed about WKYC is that their Dolby 5.1 shows are not transmitting sound to the rear speakers. Nothing. Not even an echo.

This seemed to start last Sunday (I'm a week behind) so it will be interesting to see if they adjust.

Has anyone noticed the listing on Adelphia's HDBON channel listing the Walsh Jesuit/St Edwards basketball game. I think it was listed for Thursday 5/4. Is this STO or another network? Hope it's STO starting to expand their broadcast hours, but either way - very cool!

It's STO's first non-Indians broadcast. It has been mentioned in a couple of places, but I'm not sure if I've seen it here.

Has anyone noticed the listing on Adelphia's HDBON channel listing the Walsh Jesuit/St Edwards basketball game. I think it was listed for Thursday 5/4. Is this STO or another network? Hope it's STO starting to expand their broadcast hours, but either way - very cool!

It's a baseball game at Jacob's Field. I hope it's in HD. I know they're going through the normal WKYC/STO connection to the stadium.

It is:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060427&content_id=1421498&vkey=pr_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

I heard this announced the other day on STO: STO will broadcast Len Barker's perfect game on May 15th which is the 25th anniversary of the event. In honor of the event, STO will run 24 hours of programming.

I could not find a press release for this I only heard it announced one time.

Be prepaired for "LDTV" :D every time I saw the replay of the last out of this game the videotape was blurry.

What I've noticed about WKYC is that their Dolby 5.1 shows are not transmitting sound to the rear speakers. Nothing. Not even an echo.

This seemed to start last Sunday (I'm a week behind) so it will be interesting to see if they adjust.

Are they the only channel that broadcasts in 5.1? I watched "The Unit" for the first time yesterday and it didn't come up as 5.1.

Fox broadcasts in 5.1. Neither CBS or ABC in Cleveland does.

Wide Open West has added HGTV-HD on channel 216. Picture looks great, just like Discovery HD.

When I come home and my SA8000HD hasn't been turned off in the middle of the night I know the HD Santa Claus has delivered another channel. Or is that the HD stork?

Watching Tribe/Oakland game on STO (SD) only getting sound out of the left speaker. And the SD PQ is pretty bad at that. Reminds me of FSNOH SD PQ, maybe a little worse actually.

Watching on the WOW analog STO channel 72.

Just tuned to the game via Adelphia digital 179 (SD)...don't notice anything untoward about either the PQ or the sound, at least down here.

Wide Open West has added HGTV-HD on channel 216. Picture looks great, just like Discovery HD.



I never look at HGTV so I could care less if Adelphia ever puts that one on. I never look at Discovery or PBS for that matter either.

Stations I really want in HD are CW (next year), FX, and TNT.

Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?

Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?


I don't know. CSI looks pretty darn good on server playback. I know they're all using some pretty high end playback machines, with lots of bandwidth and high Mbps rates. A lot of the shows you speak of originate on film too.

Also, with 24, I thought Fox was doing a lot of 480p for their network shows, yet Fox 8 News is delivered in native 720p.

Right now, a lot of the high end sports in HD (NASCAR, Sunday Night baseball and football, almost any golf event) employ some of the best color correction "video" people in the business to "paint" their cameras so picture quality is going to be amazing.

I think one thing that adds to your argument is that a lot of the live stuff, the lighting is just so much more harsh than the network programming. There's a mentality in news, sports and live events just to flood the lights so your picture looks brighter.

Is it my imagination or are live HD OTA broadcasts (e.g., sports, FOX 8 News, American Idol) clearer and sharper in quality than standard videotaped programming (e.g., 24, House, Law and Order). Does anyone notice a difference in cable or satellite broaodcasts between live and taped HD programming ?

You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.

There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.

The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives. ;)

This is basically what you are seeing.

I don't know. CSI looks pretty darn good on server playback. I know they're all using some pretty high end playback machines, with lots of bandwidth and high Mbps rates. A lot of the shows you speak of originate on film too.

Also, with 24, I thought Fox was doing a lot of 480p for their network shows, yet Fox 8 News is delivered in native 720p.

Right now, a lot of the high end sports in HD (NASCAR, Sunday Night baseball and football, almost any golf event) employ some of the best color correction "video" people in the business to "paint" their cameras so picture quality is going to be amazing.

I think one thing that adds to your argument is that a lot of the live stuff, the lighting is just so much more harsh than the network programming. There's a mentality in news, sports and live events just to flood the lights so your picture looks brighter.

24 is 720p now, not 480p. Fox used to do that 2 years ago but has since switched the majority of their shows to HD resolution.

You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.

There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.

The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives. ;)

This is basically what you are seeing.

You just described something I have been noticing for years, even via analog SD.

Back in the early 90's there was an episode of the series on ABC "Life Goes On" where both video techniques were employed for an effect. In the episode there were videotaped interviewes of married couples who were mentally challenged. Those video clips had that "'looking through a glass window' effect" that you described. The rest of the program was in grainy film. The same effect is used on some commercials (it's rare, though. most commercials employ the "film" look).

You are correct and there is a reason. For those shows that are recorded using HD video cameras, filters are used to give the show more of a 'film' like look. When you watch a live broadcast such as sports, American Idol etc... they are not using those types of filters thus you get what we used to call the 'looking through a glass window' effect. It's intended to look at close to being there in person as possible because those types of presentations lend to that. Who wants their HD-Cavs game to have a 'film' like look to it or have certain views include a fuzzy grain to the picture. ha! Obviously we want the HD-Cavs games to look like we are sitting at the Q watching in person. For programs like 24, House, CSI etc..., looking like you are there in the studio is not what they want. With filters, they can get those HD recordings to still look wonderful in HD, but still create different moods, add grain to certain scenes, make other scenes lean towards a certain color, etc... For example, the newer Star Wars movies were all recorded on an HD-Camera (a Sony I believe), however, nobody would want a movie to look like a live sports presentation or Fox News, so many different filters were used to create different types of moods, clarity, color, and give a softer film like appearance. Were the movies still razer sharp, colorful, and gorgeous on the DLP theater screens? Heck yes! However, they didn't look like a live presentation, even though they could have without the filters and effects used on the camera.

There is a possibility that some of the shows are still actually filmed, then transferred to HD-Video. They used to do that, however I don't know for sure if that still goes on for most TV shows like ER, Law & Order, etc... If so, that is another reason for the shows to not look like live HD because film simply doesn't look like that. Making movies and TV dramas is an art form and we as viewers have been used to a certain look of film. So even though these shows are HD resolutions, the creators still want to maintain their artistic form.

The bottom line is, with HD, you can cater to the purpose of the content. For live presentations, the purpose is to as closely duplicate actually viewing the event live in person and with TV drama series that isn't what you want as we are used to it looking like a movie. I would hate for King Kong to have looked like Days of Our Lives. ;)

This is basically what you are seeing.

What an excellent explanation.

I watched a little of the STO Walsh/St. Ed's game. Thought it looked really good. I can't remember FSN doing any local games like that. I hope STO keeps it up. I'd really like to see if they do anything big come high school football time.

I watched a little of the STO Walsh/St. Ed's game. Thought it looked really good. I can't remember FSN doing any local games like that. I hope STO keeps it up. I'd really like to see if they do anything big come high school football time.

I watched a little of it, too.

As far as HS football games, I believe Jim Liberatore (STO chief) mentioned that might be on the agenda. I don't know if they'll do a "HS Game of the Week" (a la the series that now airs on 45/49), but it sounded like they'd be interested in big HS games. St. Eds/St. Ignatius, Massillon/McKinley, that sort of thing.

How about some minor league baseball? The Captains would be nice in HD. Or maybe we can watch the Indians minor league team in Buffalo?

I LOVE the minor league baseball idea. I'd enjoy seeing the Captains, and/or Aeros, and/ or Bisons. HS football would be good too.

Mr. Liberatore didn't seem to think they'd run regular minor league baseball, in all the interviews I've seen. But if the Captains or Aeros or whatever is in a championship series, maybe he'll go for it.

How much trouble is it to move HD facilities to a minor league park? Are they even able to do it? The Captains will be hosting the all-star game this year...

How much trouble is it to move HD facilities to a minor league park? Are they even able to do it? The Captains will be hosting the all-star game this year...

That's the kind of event, assuming they have ANY interest in minor league ball, that they'd probably do.

But don't expect it in HD. They'd have to rent a truck and cameras. Remember, the HD out of Jacobs Field is "built in"...fixed cameras, and they're run into the WKYC HD control room via fiber optic cable.

They'd have to have a production truck and bring in HD cameras in Eastlake.

That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.

That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.

True, but I'd like to see the minor league baseball. The Red Sox show Pawtucket on NESN. I don't know if it's in HD or not.

That was the original question though... Minor league baseball in HD, not just STO covering minor league.

Chicken meet egg - STO would have to be interested in covering minor league ball in general, before they'd consider whether to go to the extra effort to cover it in HD... the effort I described above.

That's the kind of event, assuming they have ANY interest in minor league ball, that they'd probably do.

But don't expect it in HD. They'd have to rent a truck and cameras. Remember, the HD out of Jacobs Field is "built in"...fixed cameras, and they're run into the WKYC HD control room via fiber optic cable.

They'd have to have a production truck and bring in HD cameras in Eastlake.

If they do show any interest in doing the minors it's probably going to be a bare bones show. Plus, you have to figure Eastlake and maybe Akron are close enough to get back to WKYC via microwave, just like a news live shot. So why spend any money on an HD satellite truck?

They'd probably have a better chance seeing if the minor league team could play the game at the Jake before doing an HD road show.

I LOVE the minor league baseball idea. I'd enjoy seeing the Captains, and/or Aeros, and/ or Bisons. HS football would be good too.


Around here I think HS Football would be a bigger audience draw on a regular basis than the minors. I'd love to see extensive HS coverage from STO. Now it's all over the dial. FSN never really had any, Adelphia has some. 45/49 in Akron has some but it looks atrocious. ONN used to have some decent coverage of playoffs and champs, but really went down the drain last year. The PQ was so awful and the production value looked as if they handed the show to high school students themselves to produce.

How great would an HD high school game of the week be!

I watched a little of it, too.

As far as HS football games, I believe Jim Liberatore (STO chief) mentioned that might be on the agenda. I don't know if they'll do a "HS Game of the Week" (a la the series that now airs on 45/49), but it sounded like they'd be interested in big HS games. St. Eds/St. Ignatius, Massillon/McKinley, that sort of thing.


That sounds smart of them just to follow the big teams, maybe see if that takes off then expand coverage maybe?

When I was growing up I used to love the old WVIZ game of the week. That used to be a really big thing when they'd come to cover your school.

How great would an HD high school game of the week be!

As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.

But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.

I just don't understand why. :p

As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.

But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.

I just don't understand why. :p

It's regional. Just like high school basketball being such a draw in Indiana. Personally, I'd rather see STO put on some nothing game (preferrably in HD) instead of 20 hours of "No Signal," or like FSN 8hrs of infomercials and some quasi-sports programs from a server in LA the rest of the day.

It's regional. . Personally, I'd rather see STO put on some nothing game (preferrably in HD) instead of 20 hours of "No Signal," or like FSN 8hrs of infomercials and some quasi-sports programs from a server in LA the rest of the day.

I strongly agree. There's enough of those lame informercials around.

It just seems to me like such a good choice. H.S. foortball, and all the minor league baseball around. It would fill most of their emplty slots. It is STO - Sports Time Ohio - So concentrate what's local. Preferably in HD, of course but if not at least give us something else to look at.

As a transported Los Angelino I can't tell you how NOT interested I am in watching a high school football game. When I first moved in this area (actually I was in Northern Kentucky) I couldn't believe the amount of attention that was paid to high school football. As far as I can remember there was very little coverage of anything high school in L.A.

But it's cool, I understand that's the way of life around here and it's a big deal to the people in this area.

I just don't understand why. :pIf you think there is an emphasis on high school sports here, try watching the local news from a smaller market. Ever since WKBN fired up their digital signal I have been able to watch their news. They actually cover girls softball during the regular sports segmant of the news. And it's not just WKBN, I also get WFMJ analog and they too cover more high school sports (and also report on both Cleveland and Pittsburgh pro teams, YSU sports and the Scrappers). Here in Cleveland we get "American Idol" non-news. :rolleyes:

If you think there is an emphasis on high school sports here, try watching the local news from a smaller market. Ever since WKBN fired up their digital signal I have been able to watch their news. They actually cover girls softball during the regular sports segmant of the news. And it's not just WKBN, I also get WFMJ analog and they too cover more high school sports (and also report on both Cleveland and Pittsburgh pro teams, YSU sports and the Scrappers). Here in Cleveland we get "American Idol" non-news. :rolleyes:

I've always thought with ESPN, ESPN News, FSN, etc...that national sports reports are everywhere. The local stations can differentiate themselves by doing just that--local sports reports. What good does it do WKBN to devote it's sportscast to the same satellite video that we've seen three times that day already on a national sports network.

I just got a Toshiba 42HPX95 HDTV. Now that I've subscribed to Adelphia HDTV, I'm having trouble in getting the aspect ratios right on some of the HD channels (especially WKYC). My HD cable box is an SA8300HD. The cable box is connected to the TV via HDMI, the cable box is set to choose picture format via Auto DVI/HDMI, and the TV set has an "auto aspect ratio" feature that's turned on. The TV is a 720p display (resolution is 1024 x 768).

When WKYC-HD is broadcasting a non-HD program, I don't want to see it stretched out of proportion, but that's what I get. Shouldn't these settings give me a 4:3 window when what's being telecast on the HD channel is not widescreen material?

WKYC transmitts stretched SD when they are not broadcasting HD. The The reason is the engineer thinks it looks better and that's that. The answer to your question is also on the other "Cleveland" thread towards the end.

JJK

Yep, the issue is not Adelphia, it's WKYC's stretch, which you would get even OTA.

To comfort you a bit...it used to be worse. WEWS and WOIO used to do the stretch, too! And WEWS' wasn't even a true 16x9 stretch, which caused even more grief.

Thanks to the two previous replies for clarifying the source of the problem. Maybe I can get some eyeglasses that correct for the "stretch." What a grotesque look! I have been scratching my head for some time to understand why all of the stores are displaying "stretched" pictures on their 16:9 sets. Maybe they think that they have all of that screen area, so they have to fill it no matter how bad it looks. It's like buying a cake and having to eat the whole thing even after you're full!

I have been scratching my head for some time to understand why all of the stores are displaying "stretched" pictures on their 16:9 sets. Maybe they think that they have all of that screen area, so they have to fill it no matter how bad it looks.

Exactly. There are many viewers who would rather see the content stretched edge to edge than a pillarboxed SD picture. I agree that a stretched image makes NTSC video look worse.

What really weirds me out is the anamorphic stretch that many sets apply to an SD signal. It makes lateral movement look pretty strange, especially when there's a crawl running across the bottom of the screen.

For Adelphia local stations just watch them on their digital channel (which is the regular channel if you have a digital box). Then you can control the stretch or watch it in standard format if you don't want to stretch. You'll enjoy the picture much better that way.

I totally agree with that hook. The PQ is not all that much worse on the non-HD WKYC so if you don't want to deal with the stretch-o-vision, it's better to watch on channel 3. I've often thought that SD material on the HD-networks often has a much softer blurry look depending on what's on. I sometimes enjoyed the PQ on the non-HD's for SD Browns games as the HD-channel version looked too washed out and bland. News casts seemed to look much better on the HD channels so it really depends on the content. That'll hopefully change anyway when WKYC and WEWS go all HD on us. :)

Observation:
Watching OTA channel 25 analog Lawerance Welk (yuk) yesterday the color rendition and saturation was brilliant, reminding me of the old Technicolor 3-part process in the older musical movies. The focus was sharp as a razor. Consequently, watching the same program at the same time (2 TVS) on digital SD 49.2 the picture was out of focus, poor color saturation, poor color rendition and a slight tint to the red side. The out of focus is about like someone applying a .002 blur to the picture in a video editing system. The analog colors were absolutely staggering, deep blacks, brilliant orange, red, green, blue and fully saturated facial tones which reminded me of Kodak ectachrome prints. Like John Lennon says, "SD is dead".

JJK

Yeah, that is definitely the case in many situations as I've found with the Browns games & other SD programming on the HD digital channels. It's the upconversion process on material that doesn't have the line data to support the upconvert. Trying to squeeze water out of a rock & it just doesn't always work. However, just imagine once everything we watch is in HD. Good ole Lawerance would never look better than in 1080i or 720p! SCARY!! haha!

I just realized this morning that I'm getting KBN from Youngstown (both the CBS and Fox feeds) on Analog Channel 41 (Digital 27.1 and 27.2) with about 55% to 60% in southern Medina. This is with the antenna in the attick over my garage pointing toward the Parma farm! Not bad at all.

I hope it stays, because I've been unable to get rid of the signal-killing multipath that plagues Channel 19 for about 2 years now. Maybe now I'll have a viable CBS to watch!

Of course last time I got excited about a long-distance signal (Channel 21 from Youngstown) it turned out to be short-lived and most likely the result of a tropo skip or something.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Observation:
Watching OTA channel 25 analog Lawerance Welk (yuk) yesterday the color rendition and saturation was brilliant, reminding me of the old Technicolor 3-part process in the older musical movies. The focus was sharp as a razor. Consequently, watching the same program at the same time (2 TVS) on digital SD 49.2 the picture was out of focus, poor color saturation, poor color rendition and a slight tint to the red side. The out of focus is about like someone applying a .002 blur to the picture in a video editing system.

I don't know what kind of equipment WVIZ has analog vs. WEAO in SD digital, but I'm guessing that 49.2 is sent at a lower bit rate than a full SD digital signal, since they're pushing three other subchannels down the line. I could be wrong, though.

Of course last time I got excited about a long-distance signal (Channel 21 from Youngstown) it turned out to be short-lived and most likely the result of a tropo skip or something.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

I'm getting WKBN-DT every night without any problem now, with my amplified indoor antenna about 20 miles east of you. It's harder to get during the day, for whatever reason, but a regular visitor at night.

WKBN-DT is somewhat more powerful than WFMJ-DT's STA, so you might have much better luck with it than you did with WFMJ. They'll be up to their own full power - still less than WKBN-DT, but about twice what they're putting out now - by July.

This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.

Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!

Thanks.

This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.

Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!

Thanks.

I just started using this gentlemen and I would highly recommend him. Williams Power Solutions, LLC. He's an authorized Guardian Power Generator installation and service person.

He won't be as cheap as what you can get from Home Depot but trust me when I tell you he will do the job with integrity and at a fair price. Mine was a Home Depot install and he fixed many of the things they did wrong at no additional charge and only charged a service call of !25.00. Everyone else wants 200.00 and that's just for changing the oil. He adjusted the valves, checked to make sure everything was working ok. Spent a good 3 hours here.

His name is Charley and he can be reached at 330.487.5164. He's a rare commonditiy today, a fair and honest business man.

I started picking up 67.1 yesterday. It's very weak but solid. I never watch it though. The signal strength looked like about 10% on a 100% scale accuracy unknown.

JJK

Any updates on the WVIZ-DT tower issue? When will they be transmitting from their permanent antenna with full power?

WBNX-DT has been given a contruction permit by the FCC. Any news when they will be transmitting HDTV?

This is OT, but does anyone know a good company in the area (Mayfield Village) that does generator installations. Looking for approx 10KW natural gas powered, automatic transfer switch, and they would have to build a concrete pad for it behind our office as well.

Power went out here for a good hour tonight, then tripped off again an hour later. I hope this is not an indication of what's to come this summer!

Thanks.

Here is the Generac/Guardian dealer locator page: http://www.generac.com/industrial/commServiceLocator.asp
Just plug in your zip code to see all the authorized dealers in your area. Always good to get multiple quotes on a job like that.

I'm getting WKBN-DT every night without any problem now, with my amplified indoor antenna about 20 miles east of you. It's harder to get during the day, for whatever reason, but a regular visitor at night.
That's my story too here in SE Parma (about a mile south of the Ridgewood antenna farm) using a non-amplified indoor antenna (Silver Sensor).

I want to put up an outdoor antenna and aim it at Youngstown, the back side of that antenna would point roughly to the area between WJW and WEWS/WUAB so I might be able to kill 2 birds with one stone. I'd need a second UHF aimed at Akron, the back side would be looking at WBNX/WQHS. Then a 3rd VHF only antenna aimed at WKYC/WOIO and the proper couplers and I should be all set!

I started picking up 67.1 yesterday. It's very weak but solid. I never watch it though. The signal strength looked like about 10% on a 100% scale accuracy unknown.

I've gotten WOAC-DT with no problem for about two months now, if I'm aiming my indoor antenna at Brimfield. (For example, if I'm pointing at Youngstown to get WKBN-DT, I get WOAC-DT with no problem, and strong signal.)

I think they've been at 1000KW for a while now. Out of Twinsburg, I'd try aiming southeast towards roughly Kent...you may or may not be getting a good angle if your antenna is pointing at Parma. You should be more than close enough to get it.

Haven't heard any updates on either the WBNX-DT CP or the WVIZ situation.

My guess - you'll see both up by July 1st, if not sooner.

WBNX should be ready for the CW launch in the fall.

All you OTA users should start scanning once a week or so once the summer rolls around. WVIZ and WBNX should start doing tests and may/or may not put something up, probably just a static color graph or something.

Inundated:
My antenna is fixed right now. Starfleet Command demands certain channels and if I put up a rotator, well-----. Maybe another antenna and rotator.

JJK

The FCC released tentative channel designations for the 2nd round last week.

Good News: WKYC-DT has received an alternate designation which will allow them to move off of the "death valley" channel 2 frequency. :D

Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009. :(

The details are here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7613854#post7613854

Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009. :(


We talked about this a while back...their second request was 32, IIRC.

It doesn't do much to help anyone now, but after 2/2009, it's a moot point. WDLI will stay on DT 39. And WKYC would probably not move off of DT 2 until the analog shutdown date, anyway, so it doesn't make much difference.

The analog 17 used to come in pretty good until they went to digital then I could not pick up analog 17 anymore.
JJK

Bad News: Their alternate channel assignment is 17, which means they are stuck on channel 2 until WDLI, the Canton religious broadcaster, shuts down their analog stick, probably in Feb 2009. :( Bad news? I don't have a problem with WKYC broadcasting over WDLI's signal... do you? :D

Besides, WKYC is to my north and WDLI is to my south, so it wouldn't pose a problem for me if WKYC went to 17... so what's the problem? :p

Way off topic:

Anyone know any trick of how to bookmark this site so that it automatically goes to the last thread?

Way off topic:

Anyone know any trick of how to bookmark this site so that it automatically goes to the last thread?

here's what I use:

"http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&goto=newpost"

Cut and paste what's inside the quote marks. I had to put the quotes because the forum shortened it as a normal url.

here's what I use:

"http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&goto=newpost"

Cut and paste what's inside the quote marks. I had to put the quotes because the forum shortened it as a normal url.


Thanks!!!

Another method would be to subscribe to the thread and bookmark the User Control Panel. This way you only need one bookmark for AVS and you will see when there are new postings.

Another method would be to subscribe to the thread and bookmark the User Control Panel. This way you only need one bookmark for AVS and you will see when there are new postings.

Actually, the easiest way is to use the ...newpost link you get in the email when you're subscribed. That's where that link I posted came from originally.

Anybody have any updates as to when D* will begin offering the locals in MPEG-4 HD? Last I heard the estimated time was May or June.

And, on a related topic, anybody have an estimate as to when the new MPEG-4 HD DVR will be available from D*?

Thanks.

Actually, the easiest way is to use the ...newpost link you get in the email when you're subscribed. That's where that link I posted came from originally.

The problem is that I subscribe to too many threads/forums to use email notifications. :)

A few pages back, I posted the NFL coverage maps that JPKirby posts
http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html

I took some time to find those instances last season where either WKBN or WYFX were carrying different games than WOIO or WJW. I came up with a total of 12 more games that would have been available OTA had WKBN-DT (with it's WYFX subchannel) been on the air.

The majority of the different games were the FOX games, however there were 4 instances of different games from CBS. There were 5 instances where FOX had a "singleheader" but if you combined the offereings on WJW and WYFX you would have ended up with a doubleheader for that week. There were 3 instances where the Cleveland affilliate had no game when the network was supposed to have a doubleheader (thanks to NFL OTA rules) where the Youngstown affilliate had both games. There was one week (week 11) where both networks had different and/or extra games (a total of 5 games available OTA with only one duplicate between the two markets).

A few pages back, I posted the NFL coverage maps that JPKirby posts
http://www.gribblenation.net/personal/jp/2005maps.html

I took some time to find those instances last season where either WKBN or WYFX were carrying different games than WOIO or WJW. I came up with a total of 12 more games that would have been available OTA had WKBN-DT (with it's WYFX subchannel) been on the air.

The majority of the different games were the FOX games, however there were 4 instances of different games from CBS. There were 5 instances where FOX had a "singleheader" but if you combined the offereings on WJW and WYFX you would have ended up with a doubleheader for that week. There were 3 instances where the Cleveland affilliate had no game when the network was supposed to have a doubleheader (thanks to NFL OTA rules) where the Youngstown affilliate had both games. There was one week (week 11) where both networks had different and/or extra games (a total of 5 games available OTA with only one duplicate between the two markets).

really I dont need sunday ticket now, I wont be able to keep up with all the choices I will have if this is true for next year!

Keep in mind that not every week of the regular season will have extra games.

Here is a quick tally:
Week One: 1 extra FOX game where WJW could not show the early game of a double header.

Week Three: 1 extra FOX game where WYFX had the early game and WJW had the late game (CBS had the double header that week and both WOIO had WKBN had the same games).

Week Four: Different early games for FOX on WJW & WYFX

Week Seven: 1 extra CBS game where WOIO could not show the early game of a double header.

Week Nine: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (same as week three).

Week Ten: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN

Week Eleven: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN, PLUS 1 extra FOX game on WYFX (early) when WJW had the late game. A total of 5 games that Sunday!

Week Thirteen: Different early games for CBS WOIO and WKBN

Week Fourteen: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (NFC fans you must be salavating by now :D )

Week Sixteen: another FOX singleheader week with WYFX having an early game while WJW had the late game (easy now)

Week Seventeen: One last extra FOX game when the NFL rules barred WJW from the last FOX doubleheader of the season.

really I dont need sunday ticket now, I wont be able to keep up with all the choices I will have if this is true for next year!As long as CBS and FOX carry the bulk of the NFL regular season these extra game situations should continue. WKBN-DT is the best thing to happen to the OTA scene in NE Ohio / NW PA.

Thanks to JP Kirby for keeping last season's maps on line. He usually put the following Sunday's map out "usually Wednesday night or Thursday afternoon for that weekend's games. Updates and corrections on Friday if needed."

Youngstown is an overlapping market with the Browns and Steelers, with an emphasis on the Browns (i.e. if both teams are playing at the same time on the same network you usually get the Browns on a Yongstown station). I did catch one exception in week eleven when Miami was at Cleveland on WOIO while Pittsburgh was at Baltimore on WKBN. I don't know why that happened, but because it did there were the most games offered in the combined markets that Sunday.

If ever a Browns home game gets blacked out locally unfortunately Youngstown would also be blacked out. Fortunately that situation has not happened since the end of the Art Modell era in Cleveland, buit if it did you would need either Toledo or Erie, a much harder catch for most Clevelanders.

I did catch one exception in week eleven when Miami was at Cleveland on WOIO while Pittsburgh was at Baltimore on WKBN. I don't know why that happened, but because it did there were the most games offered in the combined markets that Sunday.

I think that WKBN usually carries the Browns over the Steelers, but I think they may carry the Steelers depending on the importance of each game.

Bad news? I don't have a problem with WKYC broadcasting over WDLI's signal... do you? :D

Besides, WKYC is to my north and WDLI is to my south, so it wouldn't pose a problem for me if WKYC went to 17... so what's the problem? :p

The bad news is that it won't happen until 2009.

Although, I wonder if WDLI would take a bribe - err - donation in exchange for abandoning channel 17 early?

I'll kick in the first $20. Anybody else in?

The bad news is that it won't happen until 2009.

Although, I wonder if WDLI would take a bribe - err - donation in exchange for abandoning channel 17 early?

I'll kick in the first $20. Anybody else in?

If I didn't get WKYC-DT on cable, I might. :D

It's not out of the question - stations have abandoned analog early - but I don't think TBN has ever taken that bait. The only one I can remember off the top of my head was a secondary PBS affiliate in Northern California.

There was a guy checking underground cables outside my house from Adelphia today. I asked him if he had any updates on the switch to Time Warner. He said July 31 is the date.

This is strictly hearsay, I have no documented proof. But it fits in with what I've read recently.

There was a guy checking underground cables outside my house from Adelphia today. I asked him if he had any updates on the switch to Time Warner. He said July 31 is the date.

This is strictly hearsay, I have no documented proof. But it fits in with what I've read recently.

That is the date Adelphia says is a "must" date for them, financially. The deal still has to go through FCC approval, and approval by the bankruptcy court.

Keep in mind that not every week of the regular season will have extra games.


The biggest problem is CBS will yet again screw us AFC fans in the 2006-2007 season with only 3 HD games per Sunday. Watching SD football is so damn painful, especially knowing all the NFC fans are getting every game in HD on Fox. Aaaargh.

If I didn't get WKYC-DT on cable, I might. :D

It's not out of the question - stations have abandoned analog early - but I don't think TBN has ever taken that bait. The only one I can remember off the top of my head was a secondary PBS affiliate in Northern California.
Channel 17 is TBN?! Ah heck... let's just get $1000 together, put the money all in $1 bills. Then we can make trails at the 17 Station of the $1 bill leading to closets. This way they'll all get trapped in closets and we can turn off the transmitter. If anything, I'd say we were doing a public service.

While I can somehow get WKYC over the air (with an indoor antenna), the problem is that trying to get WKYC and WOIO which are at the opposite far ends of the VHF scale, it makes reception very tricky, especially during bad weather, atleast for me. If WKYC was on 17, reception of all the channels over the air would be much easier... in theory. I get all the channels, this would just make it easier.

The biggest problem is CBS will yet again screw us AFC fans in the 2006-2007 season with only 3 HD games per Sunday. Watching SD football is so damn painful, especially knowing all the NFC fans are getting every game in HD on Fox. Aaaargh.

By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.

By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.

I could have sworn I read in this thread somewhere that CBS was going to televise more games in HD this year. It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't.

By now there's no reason the NFL is not 100% HD.

I take that back, there is reason....CBS is not set to handle any more than three paths back in NY. Fox built their LA center for 8 feeds of HD network integration.

I take that back, there is reason....CBS is not set to handle any more than three paths back in NY. Fox built their LA center for 8 feeds of HD network integration.

Correctomundo. From what I've read elsewhere on AVS (going back a couple months ago), CBS was not going to do anything to improve the situation for the upcoming season. IIRC, the NFL is requiring all football to be HD in 2009, so the networks will have no choice at that point.

Ahhh, here's the thread with info from Ken H:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=663002&highlight=nfl+hdtv+2007

(scroll down to post #7 from Ken H)

Correctomundo. From what I've read elsewhere on AVS (going back a couple months ago), CBS was not going to do anything to improve the situation for the upcoming season. IIRC, the NFL is requiring all football to be HD in 2009, so the networks will have no choice at that point.




Well, that bites. 2009 is like a lifetime away.

I'll be so old by that time that I might not be allowed to have a beer while a watch the game. :D

There had been rumors around here that CBS would be in HD for all of its NFL games this coming season, but it's not to be. They'll slowly "ramp up" a game or two a year until 2009.

And yes, TBN does actually own WDLI/17. It's one of their first O&O stations. Their DT 39 stick is actually in Summit County, just north of Rolling Acres Mall not far from WEAO/WEAO-DT, WVPX and WONE-FM, in the closest thing we have to an antenna farm down here in Akron. (WOAC-DT is over in Brimfield, across from WNIR-FM.)

And oddly enough, TBN just built a sparkling new building at their transmitter site, along Rt. 261 just off the Wooster Ave./Vernon Odom Blvd.-Romig Rd. intersection.

not to be mean, but you guys talk like no one watches TBN, I enjoy the JCTV channel as it gives me a chance to listen to my fav. christian artists! yes I would love to get WKYC in a better channel to make it easier to watch (I would also love for woio to go full power to to help me recieve them!).

Channel 17 is TBN?! Ah heck... let's just get $1000 together, put the money all in $1 bills. Then we can make trails at the 17 Station of the $1 bill leading to closets. This way they'll all get trapped in closets and we can turn off the transmitter. If anything, I'd say we were doing a public service.

I'm willing to try anything! :)

While I can somehow get WKYC over the air (with an indoor antenna), the problem is that trying to get WKYC and WOIO which are at the opposite far ends of the VHF scale, it makes reception very tricky, especially during bad weather, atleast for me. If WKYC was on 17, reception of all the channels over the air would be much easier... in theory. I get all the channels, this would just make it easier.

So I can count you in for $20 to the "WDLI Analog Retirement Fund"? :D

A little off topic, but make sure you Adelphia subscribers review your bills.

I was hit for two months of a "modem lease" at $6/month, for something that billing described as a "human error," and credited me for.

A little off topic, but make sure you Adelphia subscribers review your bills.

I was hit for two months of a "modem lease" at $6/month, for something that billing described as a "human error," and credited me for.

They called the other day to make sure I was aware of the 4.95 charge upcoming for the DVR. It's no longer free. Thanks for the heads up on the modem charge I'll have my wife double check our bill.

Modems are free from TWC, so I wouldn't expect a fee for those of you switching from Adelphia to TWC, but as hookbill said, DVRs aren't free.

Modems are free from TWC, so I wouldn't expect a fee for those of you switching from Adelphia to TWC, but as hookbill said, DVRs aren't free.
Adelphia has always charged its internet customers extra for a cable modem (although you can buy your own).

I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be :)

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=

I found a video link on WKYC's website explaining the STO/WKYC HD hook-up with Jacob's Field. It's over a month old, but still kinda cool. Basically a self promotion of how great HD can be :)

http://www.wkyc.com/video/player.aspx?aid=21750&bw=

Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.

You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...

Excellent link, HDTD. I found it not long after it was put up...I think they did the piece for the WKYC Indians opener, and I saw it on TV.

You'd probably know this, but...is the WKYC-based STO/Indians control room the only "off-stadium" main control room in MLB, or in any major league sports? I don't recall reading of this happening anywhere else...


As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.

More stadiums venus are being wired with fiber. But that's usually from the camera position, down to where the trucks park.

Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).

Last time I looked, it is.

Adelphia's online lineup shows 798/HDBON is "Broadcast HD", so it's not encrypted and it isn't in the HD Plus tier:



Discovery HD (776) is listed the same way, and is "in the clear" via QAM.

Here's what I'm getting in the clear:

* All local HD broadcast stations (WKYC, WEWS, WOIO, WJW, WVIZ)
* All local SD digital simulcasts of said stations (all of the above plus WUAB)
* 776/Discovery HD
* 798/HDBON
* 181/OHIO (WVIZ's "Ohio Channel" SD subchannel)
* 183/WTHR+ (WKYC's Weather Plus, also SD)

I think LOGO is in there as well (SD) as well as 300/BARK - no, not a dog channel, but the "BARKER" preview channel for PPV.

Each time Adelphia adds one of those SD digital channels, it has the proper cable box channel and name in the PSIP info.

I would assume BARK is there because it's just an in-house advertising channel, but I don't know why LOGO is on the list and other digital cable non-"plus" stations aren't.

Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.

I wrote the Channel 3's engineering staff to point out (as others have) that it's very annoying to watch 4:3 material on their HDTV channel that has been stretched by WKYC to fill a 16:9 image. I received a response from Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Operations WKYC-TV, who wrote:

> The reason we stretch
> 4x3 content when it is upconverted to 1080i, is to address the
> concerns of viewers that don't want to see black bars on the sides of
> their 16x9 display. It is also worth noting that some of the NBC HDTV
> shows are provided to us in letterbox format for analog transmission,
> and we get complaints about that problem as well. Obviously these
> policies are not liked by all of our viewers, but this is a
> case where we can't please everyone.

I responded that none of the other local channels did this with upconverted analog material on their HD channels, which meant that the viewer with a 16:9 set had the option on all the other channels to stretch the image, but that WKYC was taking away that choice. Rex responded concerning the HD-stretching issue: "We are reconsidering this policy, and I expect it to change in the near future. "

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!

I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).

I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49. :eek:

As far as pro's go, the only other folks to attempt this in HD (others have tried years ago in SD and failed) is Philadelphia. Comcast Philly has a control room at their arena and the new ballpark is connected also via fiber optic. The distance is about a half mile to a mile away.

But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.


Inundated-I apologize, I thought someone may have posted it before, and if I was doubling up on the link (I'm too lazy to search).

Oh, no problem, I can't even remember if I ended up posting it here! I know I saw it during the Indians opening day pregame on TV.

Just getting in on this conversation now. I have Adelphia i nthe Cleveland suburbs, but subscribe to just basic cable - not digital. Are these stations being sent through on the basic cable too, or just the digital? I do have a QAM enabled HDTV, but haven't yet tried to hook it up and scan for these.

Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.

You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his).

I've written to all the stations about this issue, including WEWS when they were doing that horrid 14:9 pseudo-stretch. I know the Ohio Media Watch blog has touched on this as well.

BTW, sometime not too long from now, WKYC's local newscasts will be in HD...so you'll see less of the stretch anyway. An article quoted here said it could have happened as early as April, but I think they're waiting till the HD Indians/STO stuff is more routine before doing it.

But this situation would presumably be even more unique, with the control room for the game at WKYC itself. It's still fascinating to me, and though there has been a glitch or two, it's mostly gone smoothly.

I am completely amazed at the whole network, and the rare technical flaws they've had. They not only outfitted Jacob's Field with fiber, but spec'd out an entire HD control room and built it from the ground up...then had the electric co tear up E9th St and install fiber, and to do all that by opening day (in less than four months) is amazing. (Do I hear technical acheivement Emmy?) From what I've seen very little of the technical errors have been related directly to how quickly they built the studio. It's just unbelievable, and for them to pull it off in Cleveland is amazing. This is something you'd expect out of NYC or Philly.

For a television production *truck* to be built in that time frame is amazing. And we're talking expando 53' trailers where companies build maybe a dozen a year, and are constantly updating and tweaking designs, that takes almost six months on average. Cheaper HD trucks have been rolled out in 90 days, but they've needed some fixes after that.

To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.

I've always thought as technology caught up, that you may have stadiums that are wired like this, and all the control rooms are done just like WKYC. Where you'll only travel announcers. All of the production crew could be in one place, and they just connect to whatever particular stadium your home team is visiting.

Others who want to let WKYC hear their opinions could write to Rex, if they wish (my idea, not his). This forum's software won't let me post email addresses yet, so go to the WKYC website and click on the "Contact WKYC" link at the bottom of the page, then click on the "questions about our shows" and express your opinion!

Would writing the station's General Manager help?

I noticed that PBS 45&49 has reconfigured their digital transmission. They have dropped the "Information & Education" subchannel (which was 45-4 and 49-4) and moved the Ohio Channel to 45-3 and 49-3. They are only doing three subchannels now. They have also updated their website to reflect the new configuration, leading me to believe that the change is permanent (or at least not short-term).

I think there also used to be mention on the website that the PBS HD channel was on from 6 PM to midnight on 45-1 and 49-1 (which has not been the case for quite awhile). They no longer mention this on the website. I hope they have not given up on HD at PBS 45&49. :eek:

I hope they haven't given up either! I loved their HD shows, and I'm someone that NEVER watched PBS before, even when I worked at a station in school. I really wish they took into consideration that there are a big chunk of HD viewers that watch programs they normally would not watch just because they're in HD.

I would have never watched a program about lava on Discovery Channel prior to HD. Forget Dale Chihuly's glass blowing on PBS if that were SD.

We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.

To me, if this thing is successful in Cleveland, a kind of mid-market as far as pro sports TV cities go you'll begin to see a trend with sports teams, wiring stadiums and starting their own networks.

The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.

That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.

Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)

Yes, the "open" QAM channels are not at all tied to Adelphia's digital cable. I get them down here on my computer with the Fusion USB HDTV box connected to a standard cable.

You should have no problem picking them up on your QAM-enabled set. You won't get, for example, stuff that REQUIRES the box (ESPNHD, HDNet, etc.), but you will get what I listed above.


Thanks - I gave it a try and picked up the SD channels only. The HD channels were very pixelated. I was told a couple years back that the wiring in my house is horrendous (too many splitters and an amplifier). I think the bad reception has to do with that. I'm probably due for a complete re-wire of my house if I want this to work right! Thanks for your help!

did anyone have a problem with woio last night? I had a complete 0 for signal (every other channel was at normal readings) not a biggie since i Have youngstown cbs, just wondering if any of you saw anything, thanks!

We really need 45/49 to do us a true public service and provide their PBS network programs in full HD.

As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.
We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations


Hi Don,
I'm pleased to hear about your interest in HD and appreciate the update. Many of us will be watching.

thx,
Tom

The biggest way STO avoided a pitfall here is hooking up with an existing broadcaster, WKYC, and an existing modern broadcast facility, the "Digital Broadcast Center" at 13th and Lakeside.

That reduced a lot of what they had to do. They basically had to install the HD cameras at Jacobs Field and the fiber optic link back to WKYC, and then outfit the HD control room there. I'm not sure, but I believe that control room may have already either been in place, or just needed some retrofitting for STO's purposes...mostly, I assume, making it HD ready.

Since WKYC needs it anyway for its 20 games, and can use it as a backup during STO's off hours, it was a no brainer. (Of course, at some point in the next year or so, STO will go 24 hours, but I don't know if it'll be out of that room or elsewhere.)

The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers. The Yankees YES Network and Sports NY the new Mets network had some struggle with cable systems at first, but they're big enough franchises to garner demand by subscribers to the cable systems.

WKYC certainly helped though, with the station engineering, sales and production staff plus a shell for a new control room. WKYC planned for a second control room, and second studio when they built the new facility. They had the conduit ready for all the wiring necessary. Who knows if they ever planned on having a second and third network outside of WKYC, but of any station or cable network in town, they were set to pull it off successfully.

They still had to completey outfit the facility with HD equipment. But their shell for a control room took away any big delays for construction. They had tremendous amounts of wiring of new equipment. So it wasn't completely ready to move in, but it certainly helped.

We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

People in New Orleans are expecting some federal funds too. I wouldn't hold your breath with the current management. :)

Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?

Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.

Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.

Anybody else notice the weather alert and it's affect on the HD picture during the game?

Basically the picture whent from true HD to stretch-o-vision to show the weather alert crawl and radar PIP image. During that time the scoreboard size enlarged.

Otherwise it went very smooth. I did not hear the usual audio glitch (and time warp) that I hear on other stations when the switch is made from HD to SD (or visa-varsa). I can't speak for DD5.1 audio, only the standard stereo analog output from my 921.

Yes I saw it. As far as the audio goes, I've had to "help" it a bit so it comes out the rear speakers. I have a setting I can put my stereo on that will enhance even 5.1.

As far as the weather things goes, very annoying but it happens on other stations too only they don't do the stretch o vision, they just go to standard format.

The biggest success for STO being a team owned network was going in with Time Warner from the get-go. Having them at the beginning helps tremendously. That's where Victory Network in Minneapolis failed for the Twins. They were on two cable systems with less than 40,000 homes. Try selling that to advertisers.

Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.

okay two questions

#1 is woio out for everyone? I am getting a 0 signal still

#2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and gals@

#2 if their are any engineers for stations that check in, or if any of you contact them on a regular basis.....Is Dish network in contact with the engineers about broadcasting cleveland locals, it is my understanding that they have to talk to the engineers first, kinda gives me a timeline of when cleveland HDlocals will be put up in the sat...thanks guys! and gals@

From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.

From what I've been reading in the other local DBS threads, Dish Network is picking up local HD/DT channels over air, and is not receiving a fiber optic feed for them. As such, the engineering folks aren't involved...only the management to clear the station being carried.

I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.

I thought I read somewhere that they had to let the engineer know, oh well I will wait paitently! thanks inundated.

I THINK DirecTV may be getting the fiber optic feeds for some of their HD LIL markets, but I have been reading in the Sacramento thread - in messages from KOVR "CBS 13" engineer Bob Hess - that Dish Network will just get them via OTA reception. No need to notify the engineer, as the signal's out there for anyone to pick up and the engineer doesn't need to do anything.

Bob explains it in this message (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7640934&&#post7640934) on the Sacramento OTA thread.

I believe Adelphia/Cleveland gets all of its local HD stations via OTA pickup. In fact, I seem to remember that they even pick up puny-power WVIZ/25 (DT 26) via OTA out of their downtown Cleveland facility...with much better antennas and equipment than we have, of course. ;)

News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....

Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfinder&siteid=google&guid=%7BFCC7E528-5DD9-443D-8F12-2CAABA4023C6%7D&keyword=

Also see article on this site:

http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

Oh, definitely, that's a key piece of the puzzle - distribution. Even if they signed up no other cable system but Time Warner, it would have given them 90 percent of the local cable homes - with Adelphia/Comcast coming into the fold this summer. They still needed the other pieces, and the satellite services, but they'd never have been behind the same 8 ball Victory Sports was behind in Minnesota.

It's funny after you asked about other cities doing a similar fiber link with a station, I heard serious talk about FSN Pittsburgh following STO's lead by wiring PNC Park and HD fibering their signal back to FSN Pittsburgh's Allegheny Center studios. Bypassing a truck, and building an HD control room.

As the title above indicates, we, too, believe in HD. I also believe in being honest. Our first generation digital encoding equipment is showing its age. The unit has limitations and those, combined with our incompatible automation system interface, limit what the station can deliver. That's why the Information & Education Channel (CPB/Annenberg) has temporarily be discontinued. That is also why, after 6 months of effort, we are TEMPORARILY de-listing our HD service. That is also why we've made considerable changes to our 2am-5 am primary channel service.
We have been expecting funds from a federal grant to upgrade our automation system since September. We are now spending considerable time reviewing replacement mux and encoding equipment. But we are not abandoning HD as one of the significant broadcast streams in our future.
When we get all the pieces-parts together HD will be on the air again. I, for one, can hardly wait.

Don Freeman
Director of Programming and Operations

Thanks for the reply Don. Sounds typical of PBS equipment woes. Buy it just to do the job at first, and end up paying more in the end to fix it. Doesn't matter what the equipment is, it's PBS' buying "strategery," for everything. WVIZ is going through the same disaster.

News article of local interest....concerns local "Shop At Home" channel....

Scripps shuts Shop At Home after failed sale

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfinder&siteid=google&guid=%7BFCC7E528-5DD9-443D-8F12-2CAABA4023C6%7D&keyword=

Also see article on this site:

http://www.ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

It would be nice to see the WIVM (52) folks pick up this channel. A return to the old days of WOAC - low budget, local programming with plenty of high school football and basketball. Is Scott Davis still around? Proably won't happen, though.

Maybe the CAT folks (low power 29/35) would pick it up - although I can't imagine Kaiser Bill springing for a full power TV station. The WOAC transmitter is located right next to the Kaiser's broadcast "empire", though. And it would put OSU Buckeye basketball back on a full power affiliate in this market.

Honestly, I don't know who would be interested and have the wherewithall to buy this station. I'm just glad to be getting rid of the shopping channel. What a waste of spectrum! I think I'd rather watch a test pattern. :D

Speaking of PBS and WVIZ ... any news on the progress of their new antenna? Or is it also in governmental grant hell?

I just took a look at Saturday at Zap2it.com to see what we were going to get on FOX this weekend. We're getting Cubs vs Sox. They did not have the HD flag with the listing.

I thought this was the year FOX was going to give us MLB game of the week in HD. And if they arn't, why not?

Bad news, hook. See the post in this thread from Ken H. confirming a no go on the HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7676043&&#post7676043

No HD for the Fox MLB regular season games. I guess they figure the audience isn't there to make it worth the trouble.

P.S. I wonder if the people in Chicago get downgraded to SD for that Fox game, since Comcast Sports Net and WGN Chicago do all their home games in HD.

Bad news, hook. See the post in this thread from Ken H. confirming a no go on the HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7676043&&#post7676043

No HD for the Fox MLB regular season games. I guess they figure the audience isn't there to make it worth the trouble.

P.S. I wonder if the people in Chicago get downgraded to SD for that Fox game, since Comcast Sports Net and WGN Chicago do all their home games in HD.


You know last year they were passing off SD 16x9 to the HD world, and SD had the horrible 4:3 center cut, making the picture even worse at home.

Now they did have some true HD games, but I know of a game in Cleveland last year that they did try passing it off as HD, even though it came out of a non-HD native truck.

What stinks about Chicago is they're using a truck that's already HD, like everyone on here tends to agree, why not just spend the money for transmission and do it in HD!

I work in the industry and saw this interesting article (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6334530.html?display=John+Higgins&referral=SUPP) in Broadcasting and Cable recommending that Time Warner walk away from the Adelphia aquisition. Wonder if the management at TW is considering that?

I hope the link works, if not, the website is broadcastingcable.com, and the column is titled "Hey, Time Warner: Walk Away from Adelphia" by John Higgins.

I work in the industry and saw this interesting article (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6334530.html?display=John+Higgins&referral=SUPP) in Broadcasting and Cable recommending that Time Warner walk away from the Adelphia aquisition. Wonder if the management at TW is considering that?

I hope the link works, if not, the website is broadcastingcable.com, and the column is titled "Hey, Time Warner: Walk Away from Adelphia" by John Higgins.

Well, really that's one persons well written opinion. And in fact he may be right.

I still think the deal will be done with by the deadline.

It's funny after you asked about other cities doing a similar fiber link with a station, I heard serious talk about FSN Pittsburgh following STO's lead by wiring PNC Park and HD fibering their signal back to FSN Pittsburgh's Allegheny Center studios. Bypassing a truck, and building an HD control room.

And if I remember downtown Pittsburgh enough, that's really not a far fiber haul...just across one of the rivers and maybe two or three blocks. It may be closer than WKYC-to-Jacobs Field.

If you're waiting for WBNX to go digital and HD in time for this fall's new CW Network lineup, after getting FCC approval for its digital construction permit a while back, don't hold your breath.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html


An OMW tipster tells us the station is now telling viewers who ask about it that WBNX may not be able to put up the digital signal until "spring 2007". The station says it has to still design and build an antenna, for one.

If you're waiting for WBNX to go digital and HD in time for this fall's new CW Network lineup, after getting FCC approval for its digital construction permit a while back, don't hold your breath.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html

That's interesting (and very disappointing if true), because I saw a promo on WBNX less than a week ago that said they were "going digital" (no mention of HD) this summer. I suppose they could have meant a cable-only feed, although it didn't sound like that.

Just took a look at the CW line up. What a bummer if it's not even delivered digitally, currently WBNX is just barely watchable on Adelphia.

Thursday will be the night for me for that network, but I see conflicts. CSI, Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural all at the same time.

Interesting that the promo talks about the car in Supernatural. Maybe it will be a "ghost car", cause that thing got totalled. There wasn't any restoring that.