That's interesting (and very disappointing if true), because I saw a promo on WBNX less than a week ago that said they were "going digital" (no mention of HD) this summer. I suppose they could have meant a cable-only feed, although it didn't sound like that.

I got the same response in my E-Mail to WBNX's viewer feedback address, by the way, as was printed above:


Thank you for your feedback. An antenna has to still be designed and built at our transmitter site. Spring of 2007 is a likely date. Thank you for watching wbnx-tv!


Maybe this person who responded to me doesn't have the full story, or maybe they ARE doing a cable only feed.

I got the same response in my E-Mail to WBNX's viewer feedback address, by the way, as was printed above:



Maybe this person who responded to me doesn't have the full story, or maybe they ARE doing a cable only feed.

I wonder if they could do a low-power STA this summer (like WVIZ) until the full-power antenna is up?

And if I remember downtown Pittsburgh enough, that's really not a far fiber haul...just across one of the rivers and maybe two or three blocks. It may be closer than WKYC-to-Jacobs Field.


I think that's even closer, than over the river. This is just behind the parking lot, under I-279, maybe under railroad tracks too. They already have three lines run back to the studio from PNC, and one from FSN to PNC. I asked further and they said it's pretty much a done deal, it's going to happen. Mainly due to the success of STO/WKYC.

I'm moving to a Cox Cabled community (currently on Adelphia) wondering if folks are happy with their HD tier?

I noticed no ESPN2, but yes on TNT (just in time for me to move with basketball almost over :) ). Also, their website lists STO as future HD, wondering if they're on or not?

Thanks!

I'm not unhappy with my cox HD tier, but I would, naturally, like to see more. I wish they had ESPN2 HD, HDNet HDNet Movies, OLN (standard and HD - I'm a hockey fan), etc. We've been enjoying STO HD on channel 758 since the first week of the season, so no problem there.

haven't been here in a while, sorry if this is a repost, but does anyone have info when NBC is updating their ****. I get good reception using the OTA, but it still glitches

Starting on Monday, May 22, WKYC should start broadcasting local news in 1080i HD. Look for it at the 6 PM news hour.

I emailed wbnx last yr and they said it would happen in mid 2006. oh ,well

OTA digital is a nightmare. You either get it or you don't. If there are clouds and the wind blows you don't get a multipath ghost ,you get nothing or freeze ups. I have a Sony HDTV with built in tuner and the only ch I can get on a consistent basis is ch43. At times I can pick up Detroit better than Cleveland as it skips across the lake and I live in Eastlake. Had to go with Cable ( Comcast).
P.S. I hope WKYC news will be as you said. That stretched out 4/3 is a joke. Makes thier faces look fat. Hear that Mona!

haven't been here in a while, sorry if this is a repost, but does anyone have info when NBC is updating their ****. I get good reception using the OTA, but it still glitches

If you are referring to WKYC-DT OTA, see post #5428 on the following page for the latest:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=287017&page=181&pp=30

In a nutshell, don't expect any improvement to their OTA signal until Feb 2009.

Actually, you are fortunate that you only get glitches. For me, WKYC-DT completely disappears for weeks at a time. :(

Caught the last few minutes of Channel 3 News at 11PM tonight, and studio portion of newscast was in HD with a new set. Taped reports were in pillarbox similar to Fox 8 (except with plain black bars w/o any sidebar logo). Commercials still in stretch-o-vision.

Caught the last few minutes of Channel 3 News at 11PM tonight, and studio portion of newscast was in HD with a new set. Taped reports were in pillarbox similar to Fox 8 (except with plain black bars w/o any sidebar logo). Commercials still in stretch-o-vision.

Two days ahead of schedule, very nice.

Two days ahead of schedule, very nice.


No WKYC HD 6 or 11pm news Sunday night, in fact it looked like the studio talent came off of a make shift set. The lighting was bad, but the cameras looked really sharp in SD. Lip Sync was way off, and a lot of the SD video looked like it was passed through a cheap upconverter (very shaky, edges look digitized and jagged). It could be a rocky week for WKYC HD.


No Monday morning local shows in HD either. :confused:

Anyone know why Fox 8 was coming in on both 8-1 and 27-5 last night ? I thought Channel 27 was WKBN out of Youngstown.

Anyone know why Fox 8 was coming in on both 8-1 and 27-5 last night ? I thought Channel 27 was WKBN out of Youngstown.

I thought something was goofy at my girlfriend's house, I saw the same thing. I found it during a commercial break and was excited to see if it was WKBN, but no Fox 8.

No idea why, it was still coming in at 31-1.

I didn't see the WKYC morning shows today, but last night's 11 PM cast was not in HD. They're sitting at a tiny, improvised set off the newsroom for now.

I thought something was goofy at my girlfriend's house, I saw the same thing. I found it during a commercial break and was excited to see if it was WKBN, but no Fox 8.

FOX 17/62 out of Youngstown is on 27-2 (SD subchannel). Maybe that's what the OP was seeing.

The 6 PM broadcast on WKYC later today is supposed to be the official announcement of the switch to HD. More than likely the Saturday broadcast was to work out the bugs.

WKYC unveiled its new HD newscast at 6.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/wkyc-flips-local-news-hd-switch.html

WKYC unveiled its new HD newscast at 6.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/wkyc-flips-local-news-hd-switch.html

Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.

Strangely, the weather segment was in SD with "HD" sidebars similar to ESPN-HD. This was probably because they couldn't insert the weather graphics over the HD video.

Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.

We know WKYC can edit HD video...they've had that capability for promos for some time now. I'm not sure what the news people are using in that regard. I'm guessing that the HD video from the field is edited at the station.

It's still a very significant move, IMHO. I watched WRAL/Raleigh's long-time HD newscast last time I was in the region (using my Fusion HDTV tuner) and it looked great. All of their video is in HD, including recorded reports. The only video that wasn't in HD was the network/outside feed stuff.

I took a look at it too. I thought some of it looked a bit odd as there were black areas on top and bottom, but overall pretty nice and a great new set.

Inundated, what shocked me was the story I tuned in on could have come right out of WOIO. Well, it is ratings time. :)

Inundated, what shocked me was the story I tuned in on could have come right out of WOIO. Well, it is ratings time. :)

Hah. :D

Well, at least WKYC is not hiring women of questionable background to get "candid" video inside an adult club. (See the PD over the weekend about that latest WOIO stunt...)

As for the set, it doesn't appear to be "new", but they have spruced it up. It looks like they added a lot of shiny, glossy areas and brighter lighting, and the new logos.

BTW, the weekly Indians show was also in HD in the studio. Well, mostly in HD, as it appeared they were using some 16x9 SD cameras for it...the "long shot" camera looked true HD. And I didn't see any HD highlights, though I missed the parts where they were running the Indians' own highlights from WKYC and STO...

Looked very impressive. In addition to the studio shots, many of the reports were entirely or partially in HD (could have been very good widescreen SD in some cases) - the top story report appeared to be entirely in HD. Other reports were pillarbox SD while others were in stretch-o-vision (odd that they would air a mix of pillarbox and stretch-o) . Commercials were mostly stretch-o.

Strangely, the weather segment was in SD with "HD" sidebars similar to ESPN-HD. This was probably because they couldn't insert the weather graphics over the HD video.

I saw the 11pm WKYC HD newscast tonight and I have to say I was underwhelmed. Fox 8 has set the bar high and got it right the first time out of the gate. WKYC graphics are not HD which I found very distracting. Not having an HD pillarbox graphic (other than the weather segment) was distracting. Fox does a better job of seamlessly integrating the 4:3 SD material with the HD content so you really don't notice. The WKYC broadcast on the other hand had my mind jerking back and forth from a crappy 4:3 segment to an HD segment with crappy SD graphics overlay, back and forth.

We know WKYC can edit HD video...they've had that capability for promos for some time now. I'm not sure what the news people are using in that regard. I'm guessing that the HD video from the field is edited at the station.

It's still a very significant move, IMHO. I watched WRAL/Raleigh's long-time HD newscast last time I was in the region (using my Fusion HDTV tuner) and it looked great. All of their video is in HD, including recorded reports. The only video that wasn't in HD was the network/outside feed stuff.


I know they can record and play back HD video, but for news I'm still not certain they can edit it. A lot of the promos they shot for Olympics they outsourced to a local production house that shoots and edits true 1080i HD.

I think a lot of what we saw was high quality SD 16x9. In talking to station guys in April I don't think they were acquiring any true HD field gear. It'd be nice if they had one they could shoot special stuff in. But honestly the SD 16x9 looks so good, I doubt few will notice.

I think it's a huge step in the right direction, and WJW can learn a lot by watching WKYC.

Realize Cleveland is now the only market with two stations doing HD news!!!

I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.

I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.

As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?

As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?

I find it hard to believe that L.A. and New York don't have at least 2 HD news broadcasts. Not calling anyone a liar, just seems strange.

Anyway I suspect it will be be a long time before you see 1/2 of your cable stations with hd due to the higher bandwith it takes to broadcast hd. However as new technology emerges I'm sure we will see more.

I don't know if you can remember this or not but I recall a time when a show broadcast in "color" was not common place. That took a few years to catch on.

As someone new to HD TV, I find that really pathetic. There are a lot of major markets out there with big money. At what point will at least half of the over 200 stations on my cable TV (Time Warner) be HD?Except that I really seem to think of HD News Broadcasts being really uninteresting. I'd rather have a network put money into signal strength and consistency or into broadcasting local stuff, like sporting events, in HD. I'd rather have the Indy 500 in 5.1 digital that the news in HD. Honestly, the news in my opinion should be the last thing to be put into HD. Of course, I may be stretching it by calling it "the news" instead of tabloid or ratings "journalism".

Group.

I'm all for picking a station to pester each week. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Ray

Please proceed gently. The squeaky wheel also gets a reputation! ;)

I don't know if you can remember this or not but I recall a time when a show broadcast in "color" was not common place. That took a few years to catch on.

And even after all these decades, there are still many old re-runs being aired in black and white. Yet I don't feel any particular need to complain to the syndicators that all those shows should be colorized and re-telecine'd into HD.

When we got our first color set, I certainly didn't expect to see everything, or even most things, in color. I don't expect to see most things in HD for a long, long time and I'm ok with that. It's still an expensive conversion and it will take as long as it takes, so we'll be watching SD content with pillarboxes for quite some time

In a way it's fun to watch a whole new era of television unfolding right before our eyes. Seeing some of the early HD trials (and errors, in some cases) reminds me of the early days of videotape. I saw all sorts of technical weirdness on the air back then, when stations first started experimenting with "the magic of videotape." It was like watching an infant take it's first wobbly steps.
:)

I'm fairly sure that Seattle has had two stations doing HD newscasts for some time. Cleveland may be the only other one, though.


You're right! I deleted that from my post.

Except that I really seem to think of HD News Broadcasts being really uninteresting. I'd rather have a network put money into signal strength and consistency or into broadcasting local stuff, like sporting events, in HD. I'd rather have the Indy 500 in 5.1 digital that the news in HD. Honestly, the news in my opinion should be the last thing to be put into HD. Of course, I may be stretching it by calling it "the news" instead of tabloid or ratings "journalism".


You're absolutely right. Sports, nature programs, travel shows, cooking, movies and many many more just lend themselves better to HD than local news. The local news is the cash cow and centerpiece for many stations, and I think once you see an HD commitment there, that the other things follow. Investment into better transmission gear, more attention to the HD signal, and not just the tiny router in the corner that's slaved to the analog master control switcher. I think when a Fox 8 or WKYC make a jump into HD that they become much more serious about the rest of their HD product.

Anyone notice that the "HD" sideflag looks strikingly similar to ESPN/2s? Wondering if anyone has the ability to frame capture into a jpeg or something to compare.

Also seems as if the station doesn't know when to flag and when not to. You'll go through a half dozen news stories, then the weather all 4:3 sideflagged, then hit sports and just get black edge cropping, then back to the sideflag.

Anyone notice that the "HD" sideflag looks strikingly similar to ESPN/2s? Wondering if anyone has the ability to frame capture into a jpeg or something to compare.

I can capture from WKYC in HD...I can't capture from ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, though. (Need the box upstairs to watch that.) I've already got a WKYC HD capture of the weather segment, I'll just have to go upstairs and take a picture of the screen for ESPN sometime.


Also seems as if the station doesn't know when to flag and when not to. You'll go through a half dozen news stories, then the weather all 4:3 sideflagged, then hit sports and just get black edge cropping, then back to the sideflag.

The WKYC HD news broadcast still seems to have some rough edges. I don't know if it's just my monitor, but the upconverted SD graphics (weather, etc.) seem to be on the jaggie side. And as I read elsewhere, it does appear that the station's Akron/Canton stuff is not in widescreen at this time.

It's hard to tell about the field video being in 16x9 SD or HD, but I'd have to agree that it's probably SD at this time. (It does look pretty good for what it is.)

Odd, that WJW only uses 16x9 SD field video for their live shots, and goes to 4x3 for recorded video. I assume WJW has the same constraints that WKYC has, as far as having to ship out 4x3 video to non-HD sources (the network, other stations), so I don't know what's up with that.

I can capture from WKYC in HD...I can't capture from ESPNHD/ESPN2HD, though. (Need the box upstairs to watch that.) I've already got a WKYC HD capture of the weather segment, I'll just have to go upstairs and take a picture of the screen for ESPN sometime.



The WKYC HD news broadcast still seems to have some rough edges. I don't know if it's just my monitor, but the upconverted SD graphics (weather, etc.) seem to be on the jaggie side. And as I read elsewhere, it does appear that the station's Akron/Canton stuff is not in widescreen at this time.

It's hard to tell about the field video being in 16x9 SD or HD, but I'd have to agree that it's probably SD at this time. (It does look pretty good for what it is.)

Odd, that WJW only uses 16x9 SD field video for their live shots, and goes to 4x3 for recorded video. I assume WJW has the same constraints that WKYC has, as far as having to ship out 4x3 video to non-HD sources (the network, other stations), so I don't know what's up with that.

That's ok on the capture, watching ESPN's closer, their graphic has a lightsource with that looks like a spotlight over the "HD." Maybe WKYC's artist simply took inspiration from ESPN.

You're right on the jagged edge stuff. I notice that on the STO downconverted cameras that visiting TV gets.

I think WKYC's ok with feeding 16x9 out to other sources, because it's still framed for 4:3 for the 4:3 world. So they just send out a 4:3 centercut downconverted feed any time they need to uplink local video to the network or anyone else. I watched again really close and still couldn't tell if it was SD 16x9 or an HD one.

You're right on the jagged edge stuff. I notice that on the STO downconverted cameras that visiting TV gets.



I don't know if this has been mentioned (sorry if it has), but I think the score strip at the top of the HD STO games looks terrible. Very fuzzy and jagged despite the HD beauty of the actual game action. It's been like that for every game. Could be related to the WKYC news graphics.

Want to talk about bad HD. Anybody see the Tribes game on ESPN today? Sound and picture problems were horrible.

I don't know if this has been mentioned (sorry if it has), but I think the score strip at the top of the HD STO games looks terrible. Very fuzzy and jagged despite the HD beauty of the actual game action. It's been like that for every game. Could be related to the WKYC news graphics.

I didn't think the STO score strip looks that bad, but when WKYC is airing a game, the added blue "Channel 3 Sports" logo does look bad.

Want to talk about bad HD. Anybody see the Tribes game on ESPN today? Sound and picture problems were horrible.

They had problems on the SD channel too. Maybe a bad satellite link.

hookbill:
In my opinion that broadcast on channel 3 was digital 16 x 9 because of all the out of focus backgrounds and ordinary forgrounds. There was nothing "HD" about it.

JJK

Are there any good antenna installers in the area?

Are there any good antenna installers in the area?

I have no experience with them but one of our forum members made a previous recommendation for Cleveland Antenna at 440-237-6888. He was very satisfied with their work.

I used Cleveland Antenna and was very satisfied. The technician used a meter to measure signal strength and made recommendations that would give me the best possible signal.

Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?

I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.

Steve

Did anyone notice a glitch in the "IDOL" show on Fox 8-1 ota last night or on cable?

It happened at about the :59 minute mark when the show went back to the beginning scene where all 12 idols walked out on stage. Then, back to correct time showing Kari Underwood in SD with bars on the left and right.

Then back to HD with several dropouts for the 2nd hour.

Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?

I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.

Steve

It could be two things:
1. The DVI-to-HDMI link is not doing a proper HDCP handshake and it defaults to 480 downrezzed output to defeat copying of HD content (by the way I have this same problem -- my SA8000HD DVI output doesn't talk to my Panny plasma correctly because this copy protection crap is so poorly implemented -- thus, I use component cables for HD)

2. Your cable box is not set to pass through HD content and is downrezzing everything to 480. There should be a forum here on AVS for your model cable box that will explain how to set up the box correctly.

Hey gang, I appologize if this has already been discussed but I was hoping someone could answer a question for me. I am getting a pay per view even and had to pick up a motorola hd cable tuner box from comcast cable. I plugged it into my 50" sony big screen using a dvi (cable box) to hdmi (tv) cable and had to use rca's for audio...Everything is working except that I only get 480 on chanels I used to get 720p on. Is this normal?

I normally just run the cable from the wall right into the tv's internal tuner and get excellent 720p on certain broadcasts..only 480 with the hd cable box. Hope I explained that correctly. Thanks for any advice.

Steve

Hi Steve,
are u receiving only 480P on all channels? Maybe the cable box is set by default to output 480p until u change it to native(or set it to output 720p only).

Hey Paul & Tom, thanks for the info/advice. I actually only tried it on fox 8 as it usually has the best hd broadcast..It was only 480 where it is normally 720p. If I just use the component video rca's should I be able to get the 720P? I will probably try that when I get home and see if it works. Thanks again.

Steve

Hey Paul & Tom, thanks for the info/advice. I actually only tried it on fox 8 as it usually has the best hd broadcast..It was only 480 where it is normally 720p. If I just use the component video rca's should I be able to get the 720P? I will probably try that when I get home and see if it works. Thanks again.

Steve

Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.

I used Cleveland Antenna and was very satisfied. The technician used a meter to measure signal strength and made recommendations that would give me the best possible signal.

that sounds like the place to go with. I'm considering dropping my cable HD service (wowway).

any rough idea on about how much it would cost to install a satelite on the roof or attic?

Ok Paul, thanks a lot for the info.

Steve

Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.

I have no experience with them but one of our forum members made a previous recommendation for Cleveland Antenna at 440-237-6888. He was very satisfied with their work.

I have also used them and I too was VERY satisfied with their work. Jim West is the owner. His son Joel will come to your house.

I have also used them and I too was VERY satisfied with their work. Jim West is the owner. His son Joel will come to your house.

I talked to Jim and he is very helpful. A stationary antenna will get all of the cleveland stations at my location.

Hey Gang, thanks for all the advice..I broke down and called comcast and I guess when using the cable/hd box the hi def stuff is around channel 200..I was tuning to channel 8.

Another thing, he had me tune to some hd channel that looked fantastic..it was in 1080i. I always thought that 720p was better than 1080i but he said that 1080i was better because it had more lines on the screen. I had always heard that progressive was better than interlaced so much that 720p beat out 1080i.

It usually beared itself out as the best hd content at our home is on fox 8 in 720p..but the 1080i channel did look almost as good as fox 8 in 720p..

Thanks again.

Steve


Yes, if you use the component RCA's you should be able to get 720p and 1080i. If you still don't see 720p or 1080i, then the box settings need to be changed to allow the higher rez output.

Another thing, he had me tune to some hd channel that looked fantastic..it was in 1080i. I always thought that 720p was better than 1080i but he said that 1080i was better because it had more lines on the screen. I had always heard that progressive was better than interlaced so much that 720p beat out 1080i.

It usually beared itself out as the best hd content at our home is on fox 8 in 720p..but the 1080i channel did look almost as good as fox 8 in 720p..

Thanks again.

Steve

Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it. :)

The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).

Hi Hookbill, thanks for the info..I've heard that about cable companies LOL...I agree, I think the best stuff I've ever seen was when fox shows nascar...I've seen some excellent baseball and football on fox also...Funny, I don't like football, baseball or nascar but I watch it cause the picture is so damn good LOL..

Thanks again for the info.

Steve

Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it. :)

The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).

Steve....Never believe anything anybody tells you at the cable company unless one of us confirms it. :)

The 720p vs 1080i has been greatly debated. Quite honestly on my HD set I can't really see the difference. My television is suppose to be 1080i native but I think 780p looks just as good, sometimes better. That's comparing football on FOX vs NBC. I think the best looking programs on television are CSI: Miami (1080i) and Lost (720p).


If I'm not mistaken the cable companies cross convert any 720p to 1080i for transmission down their lines. So any loss you'd see via cable would come in cross conversion.

If I'm not mistaken the cable companies cross convert any 720p to 1080i for transmission down their lines. So any loss you'd see via cable would come in cross conversion.

Your mistaking. :)

When I first got HD about 2 years ago Adelphia CSR's would not discuss technical issues concerning HD. There was even a selection on their menu for "HD" so you could speak directly with someone in that department. I asked about conversions from 720p to 1080i. The person I spoke with assured me that there the transmissions were not converted.

Anyway when you receive a 720p or 1080i transmission on either the SA 8300 or SA 8000 it shows as either 720p or 1080i.

Anyway when you receive a 720p or 1080i transmission on either the SA 8300 or SA 8000 it shows as either 720p or 1080i.

Same thing here with Wide Open West. No conversion is going on. From general experience all over AVS, if you call a cable company about a problem with an HD broadcast, they are usually quite emphatic that they are "hands off" and like Sgt. Schultz, have nothing, NOTHING, to do with problems in the HD stream.

Same thing here with Wide Open West. No conversion is going on. From general experience all over AVS, if you call a cable company about a problem with an HD broadcast, they are usually quite emphatic that they are "hands off" and like Sgt. Schultz, have nothing, NOTHING, to do with problems in the HD stream.

The receivers (both satellite and off air) that most cable companies use output an ASI bitstream. The ASI bitstream goes into the QAM modulator. So that means they have to buy 1 receiver and 1/2 of a QAM modulator (usually they only put 2 HD signals on one QAM channel). To down convert 1080i to 720p, that ASI bitstream would have to go into a format converter. Those things aren't cheap so it's probably more cost effective to buy another QAM modulator. It just doesn't make sens to down convert unless you don't have to.

To down convert 1080i to 720p, that ASI bitstream would have to go into a format converter. Those things aren't cheap so it's probably more cost effective to buy another QAM modulator. It just doesn't make sens to down convert unless you don't have to.

There's actually more temporal resolution in 720p because the frame rate is effectively doubled because of the lack of interlacing. Thus there's not much of an incentive to convert from 1080i to 720p or vice-versa. And you're right, they generally don't convert in the headend. They leave that choice up to the subscriber by way of the STB's display options.

For those looking for an update on HD locals from DirecTV here is a response I jut received from them......

Thanks for asking about HD programming. I know that HD programming is important to you and DIRECTV is committed to offering the best possible HD experience to you. In recent months, we have launched the first two of four satellites that will allow us to greatly expand our HD local channel offerings.

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities. We plan to launch local channels in Cleveland on June 28, 2006 and with many more to come later this year.

Customers who have DIRECTV HD equipment and want to receive local HD programming from DIRECTV will be eligible for an MPEG-4-capable receiver replacement after we launch local HD programming in your city. (If you want to replace your HD DVR, you will need to wait a bit longer. Our new MPEG-4-capable DIRECTV HD DVR is expected to be available sometime later this year.

More details will be available when we launch the local HD service in your area, so watch your local TV, radio or mailbox for upcoming announcements or visit DIRECTV.com/HD

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about HD programming.

Sincerely,

Marjorie F
DIRECTV Customer Service

The two new satellites have allowed us to begin offering HD local channels in several cities. We plan to launch local channels in Cleveland on June 28, 2006 and with many more to come later this year.

HOLY COW! That's the first "straight" answer I heard from D* ever. Thanks for the update.

For those of you interested in comparing HD formats, the Indians/White Sox game is on ESPN (720p) and STO (1080i) tonight.

ESPN seems to zoom in more on objects giving an illusion of greater detail (on the pitcher for instance). ESPN audio also has more "life" to it with the crowd noise dialed up. Hard for me to tell a difference in PQ, but then my Panny is only 1024x768 native...

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.

Pretty much same as last year. We won't have all the games in HD until the NFL requires it in 2009. CBS is doing the AFC again this upcoming season, so that means only 3 games per Sunday in HD. If the Browns continue to suck, you can rest assured CBS won't make it a priority to put their games in HD.

There are three that should definitely be in HD:

Sunday, September 10 NEW ORLEANS SAINTS
FOX

1:00 PM
Thursday, December 7 @ Pittsburgh Steelers
NFL Net

1:00 PM
Sunday, December 24 TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS
FOX


The rest of the games are on CBS, so it will be week to week as to whether any other Browns games will be among the three they show in HD.

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.


Last place, just like last year.

Go STEELERS!

Anyone else getting lots of audio dropouts on the HD Indians feed tonight?

Where will the Browns be this season in HD? I kinda remember talk last year that all games in 2006 will be broadcast in HD.

That talk proved premature. CBS will gradually add a game a week each year or so until 2009, when the NFL contract will call for all games to be in HD.

I don't know if they'll add a game this year or not.

Anyone else getting lots of audio dropouts on the HD Indians feed tonight?

Just tuned in, no problems in the past 5 minutes here. I'm on Adelphia watching on HD 798.

I'm not running a 5.1 system, though, just stereo speakers.

For those of you interested in comparing HD formats, the Indians/White Sox game is on ESPN (720p) and STO (1080i) tonight.

ESPN seems to zoom in more on objects giving an illusion of greater detail (on the pitcher for instance). ESPN audio also has more "life" to it with the crowd noise dialed up. Hard for me to tell a difference in PQ, but then my Panny is only 1024x768 native...


I thought the ESPN cameras looked a little richer in color. When they both showed the green PVI ad screen in the behind home plate the ESPN green looked really vibrant, where the STO looked kinda blah. A lot of that picture quality can depend on who is actually color correcting the cameras in the trucks too.

I thought the ESPN cameras looked a little richer in color. When they both showed the green PVI ad screen in the behind home plate the ESPN green looked really vibrant, where the STO looked kinda blah. A lot of that picture quality can depend on who is actually color correcting the cameras in the trucks too.

The irony of the two presentations was that ESPN looked more "natural" i.e., less of the harsh lighting, while the STO presentation was more like you really see it in person *with* the harsher bright white lights... (just got home from the game tonight for reference :D )

BTW, the HD on the Hitachi plasmas (Adelphia channel 798) in the Club Lounge looked a little crappy to me -- I don't notice the pixelation on my Wide Open West STO HD channel at home... Do you think Adelphia is bandwidth starving STO HD a little bit?

BTW, the HD on the Hitachi plasmas (Adelphia channel 798) in the Club Lounge looked a little crappy to me -- I don't notice the pixelation on my Wide Open West STO HD channel at home... Do you think Adelphia is bandwidth starving STO HD a little bit?

No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.

My wife will probably wonder where the hell I am. :) :)

Just tuned in, no problems in the past 5 minutes here. I'm on Adelphia watching on HD 798.

I'm not running a 5.1 system, though, just stereo speakers.
I watched the game with my 5.1 system on and noticed no dropouts (Adelphia in Solon). I did notice digital breakups on CBS and NBC during the 10 o'clock hour, probably due to the thunderstorms entering the area.

No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.

Everything looked good on my Panny on 798 at home last night... may have been local cable signal level issues within the Jake....

No. It looks fine to me. But I can't wait to see those new Plasmas in the lounge this year.

My wife will probably wonder where the hell I am. :) :)


They put one of those plasmas up in the high home Jacob's Field camera booth. Already there is really heavy black burn in where the 4:3 world ends and 16:9 begins. That convinced me not to go plasma.

They put one of those plasmas up in the high home Jacob's Field camera booth. Already there is really heavy black burn in where the 4:3 world ends and 16:9 begins. That convinced me not to go plasma.

More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.

More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.

Your probably right, though it's a little tough to imagine. I understand most normal people coming home with an HDTV and not knowing it needs to be tuned (I was until I came here). But you would think with all the electronics and engineers at Jacobs Field someone should have had a clue.

More than likely they never took it out of factory torch mode. Contrast was probably set at 100% and left there. The phosphors wear out in no time if you choose to not properly configure it. A properly set up plasma(or CRT) will last a long time(and display a more accurate picture) if it is configured correctly.

Any Plasma, even with constrast / brightness set appropriately, in fairly short time, will get burn-in if left with static images for long periods of time. In Sound & Visions LCD vs. Plasma Shootout article last year one of the main negatives of the Plasma was burn-in on static images, even if set correctly. Even CRT's can get burn-in, although it's much more difficult for that to happen to a CRT. My buddy worked for Audio Craft for many years and there was a Diamond series Mitsubishi CRT HDTV that got the PBS logo burned into it only after a few months of being on the floor. It was setup properly too, but the logo was basically on it every single day and all day. Plasma's are far easier to burn-in and even when set properly have been known to get burn-in in just a few days if left on a DVD menu with no screen saver. We had a Plasma TV as an information screen from our home office where I worked. I personally setup the TV's color, constrast, brightness etc... and just as I had predicted, the static parts of the displays from the home office (ie boxes of info, charts, etc...) had burned in perminantly within 4 months.

Anyway, some plasma's have better tools than others to help avoid burn-in or referse burn-in should it happen, to some extent, however, it's certainly not suprising that the one at Jacob's field got it so quickly. And just as you said, if they left contrast at 100%, that makes it even more likely to happen very very quickly.

Finally watched channel 3 news OTA. The studio was outstanding in color and sharpness and black levels. Ranks with the best I have seen. The weather graphics were terrible with huge amounts of spidering. The mobile widescreen shots were pretty good (NO twenty images as channel 8 Fox) but low light shots were terrible. My Z1 would blow those cameras away for low light situations. They still did a lot of stretched SD on commercials. I was impressed with the studio shots though.
JJK

There are a lot of people who traipse through that control room. I've passed through there several times and I've seen the TV set's settings monkeyed with quite a bit. I'm not blaming anyone; my point is that even if it was set up correctly the first time, it probably didn't stay that way for long.

I've also seen other plasma sets that have burned in pretty quickly from 4:3 pillarboxes or stationary text messages. I was asked to look at one plasma set that had been running as an information kiosk for a year. I found that the upper portion of the screen had all of the green phosphors completely burned away!
:eek:

I always crack up at the Continental Airlines plasmas at Cleveland Hopkins Airport have horrendous burn-in. Of course I don't think those monitors were ever designed for data like flight arrival and departure graphics.

Today's Indians/Angels game was originally scheduled for 1pm on WKYC, and it's been moved to ESPN at 8pm. Anybody know how/when they make these decisions? (not that I'm complaining, it's all HD so it's all good) Will WKYC pick up another game in HD to compensate for their "loss" to ESPN?

When the switch was announced earlier, it was stated that WKYC will pick up another game at some point. Next Sunday's game was moved to 8:00 p.m. too.

Today's Indians/Angels game was originally scheduled for 1pm on WKYC, and it's been moved to ESPN at 8pm. Anybody know how/when they make these decisions? (not that I'm complaining, it's all HD so it's all good) Will WKYC pick up another game in HD to compensate for their "loss" to ESPN?

The how part is easy. ESPN says your Sunday Night Baseball per our contract with MLB. When this happens I'm not sure of.

I looked at STO's schedule yesterday and saw they had the game listed on ESPN.

As a transplanted Los Angelino I'm telling you guys, I am trying to pull for the Tribe.....but they are making it difficult. I boldy emailed my buddy in L.A. telling him to expect what happened on Saturday to happen again today (after all CC was pitching).

Let me continue about my bad baseball day:

1. I have the Dodgers delayed because the channel In Demand is showing it on has the Mets and the hated Giants.

2. Hated Giants take lead, Mets tie , Hated Giants go into extra innings further delaying my game. I now have XM on so I can at least listen to it.

3. Dodgers tie game but Hated Giants win in extra innings. Dodgers blow several opportunities and loose to Philadelphia.

4. Red Sox beat Tigers which is good because I like Red Sox and want Cleveland to win division.

5. Unless a comeback happens Tribe are going to blow two to Anaheim. And my buddy in L.A. will be in my electronic face.

OK so only one game I talked about was in HD, but I gotta rant somewhere. :(

When the switch was announced earlier, it was stated that WKYC will pick up another game at some point. Next Sunday's game was moved to 8:00 p.m. too.


WKYC may be forced to "make good" on the game due to commitments to advertisers. Then again, who knows if they've bundled STO/WKYC ads in as "Indians" ads regardless of what channel they're on. I doubt it though, because WKYC's naturally going to have a better draw.

There's a 1:05 PM game on 8/12 as part of a day/night doubleheader, thanks to a game rained out earlier with the Royals. So far, the STO schedule says "No TV" for that early game, but I imagine that could be one of the games WKYC picks up...

Not likely. August 12th is a Saturday and Fox has exclusive rights to Saturday day games.

Cable operators find it tough to swallow HDTV (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2006-06-04-cable-hdtv_x.htm)

Cable operators find it tough to swallow HDTV (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2006-06-04-cable-hdtv_x.htm)

As much as I love Satallite over cable I don't think that at this time in our area that satallite offers more HD then cable.

Other then that the article simply outlines the same problems that we've known about for some time now.

Good to hear the prediction that HD will outsell SD this year. :)

It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)

The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.

It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)

The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.

Just so we're clear, I would love to have satallite over cable and I'm probably going to give it a shot again when they start offering locals in HD. I'm even considering Dish as an option. What I need to get in HD locally still will be CW and My Network, neither of which will probably be available over Adelphia..or TW or whatever it is later. :)

As far as baseball goes, we do get INHD2 with MLB in HD but very few games.

And I could see from the scrolling on the bottom of the screen that other companies were offering places to go due to conflict, including Comcast. They finally made the Dodger game available on an unused channel but it took 3 innings before they got to it.

It depends on whether you count Voom or not. Dish is now offering 22 channels to all HD subscribers, plus HBO and Showtime. They're supposed to be adding HGTV, National Geographic, and Food Network soon. They also have an HD PPV channel with regular movie offerings and also offer HD baseball and basketball to subscribers to the sports packages. Last week for example, they had an HD baseball game on every day (and yes, that includes the Dodgers!) (I won't even talk about the number of SD channels they use for Extra Innings so that there aren't conflicts like you had to deal with yesterday!)

The main difference at this point is the availability of local HD channels. Alos, inHD 1 & 2 are cable only. Dish still hasn't stated when Cleveland locals will be available, but it will be sooner than any major cable changes, I suspect.I have Dish Network. My receiver is a 921 hooked to an analog TV for now. I would never purchase the Cleveland Locals SD or HD since I can get them in all their uncompressed glory OTA, integrated with the satellite channels on the 921.

I realize I'm living in the tenna farm, but wait! I also get WKBN-DT with an indoor Silver Sensor. So if I can get a station like WKBN OTA at 50+ miles it's the station's signal strength and tower height that is getting it out better than other stations. If the Cleveland stations only had a comparable signal fewer viewers would need satellite LIL's or cable to get their digital locals. (even I get occasional greif from WKYC-DT and I can see their frekin' tower out my back window)

Not likely. August 12th is a Saturday and Fox has exclusive rights to Saturday day games.

It's also my birthday. :)

If FOX doesn't pick up this day game, can WKYC grab it, or are they not allowed to do so being an OTA non-FOX station?

. If the Cleveland stations only had a comparable signal fewer viewers would need satellite LIL's or cable to get their digital locals. (even I get occasional greif from WKYC-DT and I can see their frekin' tower out my back window)

We actually do pretty good with OTA in this market, aside from the problem children, like WKYC-DT (low VHF), WOIO-DT (high VHF, lower power, channel 10 interference from Ontario and Columbus), WVIZ-DT (puny power until later this summer), and WBNX-DT (won't be on until who knows?).

OK, so that's four stations.

But everyone else in the market blasts down here into my indoor antenna in northwest Akron, and I also get WKBN-DT. There are markets with far worse OTA reception.

If FOX doesn't pick up this day game, can WKYC grab it, or are they not allowed to do so being an OTA non-FOX station?

FOX has an iron clad hand on what baseball you watch on Saturday. If they don't show it, you don't watch it.

At the start of the season someone mentioned here that this is FOX's last year with the contract. I also heard one of the announcers ask the commisioner to have them come back. I sure would like to see baseball go back to NBC. I've never cared much for the way FOX presents the game and I would like to see some double headers so we can see teams in the West too.

But everyone else in the market blasts down here into my indoor antenna in northwest Akron, and I also get WKBN-DT. There are markets with far worse OTA reception.
And Univision is showing most of the soccer games for the World Cup, so a person who doesn't like to spend $500 a year on cable or sat tv, can actually watch the World Cup! It won't be in HD (not that I have HD), but it will be in digital.

And Univision is showing most of the soccer games for the World Cup, so a person who doesn't like to spend $500 a year on cable or sat tv, can actually watch the World Cup! It won't be in HD (not that I have HD), but it will be in digital.

Univision? Sorry, No habla Espanol. :)

For that matter no habla futbol either. :D

Anyone else notice that the video on CBS Channel 27-Youngstown OTA seems to be in slow motion for the network programming sometimes ? I was watching "The Unit" last night and the whole show seemed to be stilted.

Anyone else notice that the video on CBS Channel 27-Youngstown OTA seems to be in slow motion for the network programming sometimes ? I was watching "The Unit" last night and the whole show seemed to be stilted.
Yes I've seen this as well and have reported it over onthe Youngstown forum to the cheif engineer at WKBN who posts over there (as well as the cheif engineer for WFMJ). I wish the engineers from the Cleveland stations woud post over here!

As for the problem - it seem to happen whenever a feature film is shown on CBS HD. I've never seen the "stuttering shutter" effect on regular network programs, nor do I see the problem on WOIO (although I have a different, continuing problem with WOIO which goes away when I watch it on a 3 second PVR delay). I believe the WOIO problem (pulsing chroma) happens only to downconverted, live video on the E* 921. Someone in Detroit with a 921 had the same problem with the NBC affilliate there. Same fix too, watch with a 3 second delay.

My fix for WOIO is to watch WKBN insted :D

Thanks Guys. Bob (WFMJ Chief) and I do watch this thread and find it very useful. You can't imagine the amount of technology and detail involved in getting a digital high (or standard) definition television signal out for everyone to view. There are dozens of software configurations to have "just right" and then, someone with a peculiar receiver or setup at home will still see or hear a glitch. My point is that having all of your collective equipment and eyeballs looking at our signal helps us to find the problems and (hopefully) get it right.

Hi Tom.

The strobing/stuttering continues. I last time I saw it was Sunday night during the CBS Sunday Night Movie (I tuned in late so I did not know the name of the film). For me it has happened on nearly every feture film (as opposed to made-for-tv programs) on CBS HD. Perhaps thishas something to do with the frame-rate conversion (25 fps to 29.75 fps conversion). I presume this is done at CBS, so why don't I see it on WOIO as well?

I'm watching on a Sony Trinitron 27" using the S-Video input. My tuner is an Echostar PVR 921. I do not see the strobing on WOIO, however I do get a chroma pulsation on every program, network & local, commercials included. WOIO used to be worse, when I first got the 921 I got pink and light green splotches in the picture. From posting on the DBS boards it appears that this problem is limited to the SD downconverted output of the 921 on just one station in the market. As I mentined above a poster in Detroit had the same probelm with WDIV. By watching the program delayed the pulsing goes away.

If you know the cheif at WOIO (or any other Cleveland market station for that matter), turn them on to this site!

BTW: How was WKBN-DT able to get such a large coverage area, when the rest of the stations in the market wern't so lucky?

I've been talking with the manufacturer of my HD encoder and they believe that an upgrade to the current firmware version could fix the strobing issue. However, the support engineer that I spoke with today said that he will have to research this with the software folks to be sure. I was surprised to find that there was not one, but two firmware revisions since I installed my equipment barely seven weeks ago. It just goes to show you that the industry is still growing, changing and adapting as far as digital transmission is concerned. The current version is actually still a beta but it is due to be released to production in a week or two. I could get the beta, but I think that I'll wait for the production release.

As for how WKBN got such a good coverage area compared to most other stations... I don't know that I have a good answer for that. We did have a Canadian interference issue that kind of just went away after a long wait. Most stations would have amended their application by reducing their power or going somewhat directional or both. We never did amend our original application so I don't know what happened there. Perhaps we were just more willing to wait it out. Part of it is luck, for sure. Also, keep in mind that every TV station in the country had to file for a second allocation for their digital channel. This left the airwaves more congested with less opportunity for that long reaching signal.

Today's Noon home game is on STO, but I just noticed that Adelphia's channel 798 indicates that the next HD game is June 19th....

Today's Noon home game is on STO, but I just noticed that Adelphia's channel 798 indicates that the next HD game is June 19th....

A little birdie tells me this will be fixed. The game should be on 798 at noon in HD.


...3....2....1.... Poof! It's up. :)

A little birdie tells me this will be fixed. The game should be on 798 at noon in HD.
:)

Just came on!

I've been talking with the manufacturer of my HD encoder and they believe that an upgrade to the current firmware version could fix the strobing issue...

Harris (the encoder manufacturer) did confirm with me that the strobing issue would be fixed in the next firmware release due out in a week or so. I'll make a post when this is done so you can watch for it.

I don't know if this is new or what, but on STO on Wide Open West channel 72, they're running infomercials. Ads for Gunnar's magic exercise ball -- I guess that qualifies as additional "sports programming"? :D

Edit: Looks like the game has been moved from a 2:05 start on STO to 8:05 on ESPN. So much for my refrigerator magnet broadcast schedule... It's great the Indians are getting so much national attention this year, now if they'd only WIN SOME GAMES !

Edit: Looks like the game has been moved from a 2:05 start on STO to 8:05 on ESPN. So much for my refrigerator magnet broadcast schedule... It's great the Indians are getting so much national attention this year, now if they'd only WIN SOME GAMES !

Well, that explains why I'm not seeing the game, either. :D

Can someoe please post a coverage map for WKBN. I am sick and tired of not having DD 5.1 on WOIO.
I leave near intersection of 77 and 18 in Montrose.
When I scan on my Samsung 160 and H20-600 it does not pick up.
I have a large roof antenna aumed towards Cleveland stations.
I pick up all of ch 49's channels on the back side of antenna
Thanks

Here ya go:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT603946.gif

You have to point that thing to the southeast. You're not aiming at WKBN-DT either way...either pointing at Parma or the back side.

I get it consistently in the 70% range or so in southern Medina with my attic-mounted Rat-Shack antenna pointed toward Parma.... I guess I'm just really lucky.

I get it consistently in the 70% range or so in southern Medina with my attic-mounted Rat-Shack antenna pointed toward Parma.... I guess I'm just really lucky.

Yes you are.
I cannot get it in western summit county.
I am also pointed towards Parma
I have a big outdoors antenna
I hate to buy a rotor

I dont see why i cannpt receive it. It does not even show up in my available channels on either receiver and I reset receivers

HELP Please

HELP Please

You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days. He probably gets it off the back side of his antenna. The back side of your antenna is hitting Canton. Sorry, but you're going to have to get your antenna pointed our way. Either a rotor or another antenna with a combiner.

You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days. He probably gets it off the back side of his antenna. The back side of your antenna is hitting Canton. Sorry, but you're going to have to get your antenna pointed our way. Either a rotor or another antenna with a combiner.

Or, heck, maybe even an amplified indoor antenna would do it.

I'm roughly 5 miles east of rlockshin and I get WKBN-DT. I'm pointing just slightly south-southeast.

Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of how to integrate such an indoor antenna with an existing rooftop antenna. And I may just have favorable placement here - I'm up a bit from the Valley and have enough of a clearance in that direction.

You are due west of us. ZMan is northwest if I remember correctly from my soccer dad days.

What's really funny is that I'm actually straight west of Youngstown. My antenna is pointed north/northeast toward parma, so I'm picking up KBN either off the side or off of a bounce. I can occassionally pick up 21 on the digital signal, but only if the planets are aligned. The analog signal comes in with quite a bit of snow.

I think I remember rlockshin's location to be right around Routes 18 and 77. If that's the case, I'm about 12 or 13 miles west and 1 mile south of the problem spot. Why I can get the signal reliably and with good strength is truly beyond me.

And maybe I'd better go find some wood to knock on right about now.... :o

"I think I remember rlockshin's location to be right around Routes 18 and 77. If that's the case, I'm about 12 or 13 miles west and 1 mile south of the problem spot. Why I can get the signal reliably and with good strength is truly beyond me."

There's your problem: you are west of SUMMIT County. Which is part of an official USGEO continental divide. Hense the name Summit. Kent State is also very high in elevation as well as the CAK airport. The best solution is height in most RF problems, but also the most difficult and pain in the rear. I'm in southern Portage, low elevation, and I don't here a peep from KBN, but my radials are pointed to Cleveland so unless I get out of the attic or add another antenna with a combiner, I'm not expecting to see KBN.

Or, heck, maybe even an amplified indoor antenna would do it.

I'm roughly 5 miles east of rlockshin and I get WKBN-DT. I'm pointing just slightly south-southeast.

Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of how to integrate such an indoor antenna with an existing rooftop antenna. And I may just have favorable placement here - I'm up a bit from the Valley and have enough of a clearance in that direction.
Sadly, I'm deep in the valley, and my antenna is set up, through alot of trial and error, in a way that it manages to get all the Cleveland stations including WOIO and WKYC. So I dare not even try to change the direction of my indoor antenna. Gosh, won't it be great when everyone has these problems with digital reception? :p

Gosh, won't it be great when everyone has these problems with digital reception? :p

It is my understanding that one of the reasons we can't receive OTA signals like we could let's say in the 1950's or 60's is because as more OTA signals began to be transmitted more interferrance occured.

For example, when I lived in Hawthorne California in 1966 a rooftop antennae was fine for receiving all local stations. In 1988 I moved not to an apartment not far frome where I lived as a child but OTA reception was darn near impossible. Of course these were just standard definition transmissions but wouldn't the same rule of thumb apply to HD OTA? Specially now in the 21st century where we have not only more radio signals but satallite, wireless phones, internet, etc.

It just seems so much easier to get cable then to have to mess with those antennaes, even though you do miss out on a couple of OTA stations.

I just noticed on Zap2it.com that channel 799 which is listed as HD PPV is now showing slots labeled MLB Extra Innings HD. No games are listed, but as any Adelphia subscriber knows that doesn't mean anything.

I'll keep my eye on channel 799 from time to time and let you know if I see any Exta Innings games shown in HD.

Actually the inDemand website for Extra Innings states that selected games are now available in HD. However, I couldn't find a list. I know that Dish is showing tonight's Chicago/Texas game in HD (which is sort of silly since ESPN is showing it too!)

P.S., for you Indians fans, remember that Tuesday night's game is on WKYC, so we should be getting it in HD.

hookbill:
I think it's power. Not enough. The digital stations I receive from 3,5,8,19,43 are solid. Keep in mind in those days there was nothing on UHF that I could receive, it was all on VHF. The UHF spectrum is another ballgame as far as sensitivity, noise figure, etc. When you get up around 500 to 800 meghz things get real noisy and cable transmission losses and VSWR become critical on both the transmitt and receive ends. On PBS the signal varies so much it creates dropouts much like a video camcorder with dirty heads. Drives me right up the wall.
JJK

HELP Please

From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.

HELP PleaseSince WKBN-DT's coverage area includes all of Akron the first thing I would do is be sure your antenna is as high as possible and aimed almost due East.

I'm getting them in Parma with an indoor Silver Sensor. I have the "SS" on a pile of boxes so the antenna is high. Unfortunately I don't have an east-facing window near the TV, which would be a plus. I sometime do not get a lock, I think that the aluminum siding attenuates the signal. I get WKBN-DT almost every night, but daytime reception is spotty.

I just ordered a Radio Shack UHF antenna, model U75R, cat #15-2160. It has received good reviews from others who used it for digital TV reception at a distance. I'm hoping to get WFMJ, and if I'm real lucky WYTV too, once this puppy is on my chimney.

In the "for what it's worth" dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT at all with the Silver Sensor, pointed out the same window that I use with the RCA indoor amplified antenna that I CAN get it with. Maybe the amplification IS needed in my case. Again, my clearance in the general direction of Youngstown is through some tall trees, so that could be a part of it...

[QUOTE=SteveC]From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.

That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.

... OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.


That's not true. It IS true that most major markets started out with VHF stations and most of those stations had to use UHF for digital. Frequency and HD/SD have nothing in common. You've got WKYC Ch 3 analog/CH2 digital, and WFMJ CH21 analog/CH20 digital.

BTW, I had a tour of the WKYC broadcast facility on Lakeside Drive last evening courtesy of the Cleveland chapter of the SBE. Very interesting, very nice, and very high tech.

[QUOTE=SteveC]From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.

That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.
This is only partially true. The gain and directivity of an antenna is dictated by the number of elements. So the longer the boom length, the more directional the antenna. The element size is what is related to the wavelength. A half-wavelength at channel 2 (WKYC-DT's actual channel) is 2.63 meters or approximately 8 feet. At the higher UHF channels, this decreases to less than 1 foot.

For what it's worth dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT tonight, even with the usual antenna position. I suspect the tall trees behind my house have something to do with that - with a heavy cover of leaves now fully in place.

:(

For what it's worth dept.: I can't get WKBN-DT tonight, even with the usual antenna position. I suspect the tall trees behind my house have something to do with that - with a heavy cover of leaves now fully in place.

:(

I decided to check out the indoor antenna reception last night. Back in the winter, I was able to pull in WFMJ-DT pretty easily with the antenna sitting on a table by a north-facing window, pointed east-northeast across an open field. Last night, I had trouble pulling them in until I elevated the antenna about 2 feet. Now that we are in the month of June, there is a row of trees in full foliage across the field. Funny thing is, I was having a bit more trouble locking onto WKBN-DT from this position, despite their greater signal strength. With my 30-foot high outdoor antenna, the opposite is true - WKBN-DT is an easy catch but WFMJ-DT is a bit more difficult, which would seem more logical given their relative signal strengths. Perhaps the indoor antenna reception difference is due to a difference in transmitter heights - I'll have to check that.

It just goes to show that antenna reception can vary based on height, season, placement, or the phases of the moon! :D

[QUOTE=SteveC]From what I've read, the bigger the antenna the more directional it is and the more it rejects signals coming from the side. That is good if you have multipath problems. Smaller antenna's are less sensitive but more omnidirectional.

That's partially true, the bigger the antenna, the longer the wave length it can recieve, which means the lower the frequency it handles. So don't make a purchase based on size, it may be the worst thing you can do. OTA HD is higher in frequency than SD OTA, so your antenna is going to be smaller.
It all depends on what you mean by "bigger". In SteveC's original post I belileve he was referring to the number of elements - the more elements the more directional. The elements can be 8' long for ch 2 or less than an inch long for UHF, in either case the more "director elements" you have the more directional the antenna will be.

That is why the 2-bay, 4-bay and 8-bay "bow tie" UHF antennas are bidirectional, while the "Yagi" style are very directional.

I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?

I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?

I never use the CC but I attempted to. I couldn't get it to work on my set, but I didn't investigate it too much. There were a lot of options in the settings. I also took a look at the manual at SA's web site. Nothing there.

I would suggest posting this question here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859) you might get a better response.

In any case it doesn't have anything to do with Adelphia (for once). :)

I can't get closed captions through the HDMI connection from my Adelphia SA8300HD box to my HDTV, but my TV displays them just fine when I use the 8300's component video connections. Is there some setting to change that would allow the captions to show up via the HDMI connection, or does Adelphia simply not pass them through the HDMI?

Are you using the CC feature of your HDTV or the SA8300HD? Answering that might help clarify your situation.

Any information on the commencement of full power HDTV transmissions from WBNX or WVIZ?

Any information on the commencement of full power HDTV transmissions from WBNX or WVIZ?

This link: http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/cw-and-wbnx.html was posted in this thread last month. It stated that WBNX was telling people it would be early 2007 before they went online. If you look further down on the page there is a now a comment that disputes this statement and says it will be still be this summer. That is also what the WBNX website still says.

Are you using the CC feature of your HDTV or the SA8300HD? Answering that might help clarify your situation.
The TV is set to Closed Caption Mode 1, and I have tried all of the various options for closed caption source on the SA8300HD. I can get closed captions when the SA8300 is connected to the cable box via component video, but not when I use the HDMI cable. Toshiba told me that there is no guarantee that closed caption signals will be received via HDMI, which begs the question as to whether the problem is in the 8300 or my Toshiba HDTV.

The TV is set to Closed Caption Mode 1, and I have tried all of the various options for closed caption source on the SA8300HD. I can get closed captions when the SA8300 is connected to the cable box via component video, but not when I use the HDMI cable. Toshiba told me that there is no guarantee that closed caption signals will be received via HDMI, which begs the question as to whether the problem is in the 8300 or my Toshiba HDTV.

I just checked my Sony through a non hdmi connection and the closed caption is there. So it must be the HDMI connection on the SA 8300.

I know this is a real long shot, but did anyone by any chance TiVO or record the 5:00 Channel 19 news tonight (6/16/06)? I think my kids were in an early segment from Memphis Kiddie Park, but we didn't get home in time to watch.

I know this is a real long shot, but did anyone by any chance TiVO or record the 5:00 Channel 19 news tonight (6/16/06)? I think my kids were in an early segment from Memphis Kiddie Park, but we didn't get home in time to watch.

There is hope. Innundated LOVES WOIO 19 Action news. He just might have that for you. :D

Cleveland.com (Plain Dealer) reported in their Arts and Entertainment "Breaking News" page:

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/entertainment/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_entertainment/archives/2006_06.html#152055

The last line of the post discussing news rating for the various stations, in regard to WOIO's future plans, says:

"The station plans to launch a digital channel, revamp its news set and start providing news to cell phones."

Since they already have a digital channel, I read this to mean a news or possibly weather subchannel.

If true, so much for the excellent CBS HD PQ in Cleveland. :(

There is hope. Innundated LOVES WOIO 19 Action news. He just might have that for you. :D

Funny you said that. I almost just PM'd him directly. :p

I turned it on about 5:45 and watched for about a half hour. Man, was that painful. :eek:

I just checked my Sony through a non hdmi connection and the closed caption is there. So it must be the HDMI connection on the SA 8300.
Have you tried the CC options the SA8300HD offers? I know they work on the Passport software over HDMI.

If you look further down on the page there is a now a comment that disputes this statement and says it will be still be this summer. That is also what the WBNX website still says.

There's a later update on this entry:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/05/three-tier-hdtv-update.html

I don't know if anyone ever "sussed out" why WBNX was apparently E-Mailing folks, telling them it would be 2007 before they got the digital signal up.

WBNX does have the digital construction permit they waited some three years to get. The WBNX website has not been updated since before the CP was granted.

Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits? ;)

Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.

Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits? ;)

Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.


Heh Heh Heh.....nothing like stiring the pot a bit. :)

Oh, by the way, I do not have "19 Action News" on any of my DVRs. Why would I waste the bits? ;)

Sorry 'bout that...if I had it, I'd get a copy to ya, Z. I'm not even regularly recording WJW anymore.

Ehh, it was worth a shot. I knew it was a bit of a stretch.

Thanks, though. I really appreciate it anyway.

Hey...let me tell you guys. Inundated loves WOIO. Watches it more frequently then he wants to admit.


I myself have had a glance or so from time to time :D

Hey...let me tell you guys. Inundated loves WOIO. Watches it more frequently then he wants to admit.

You pot stirrer, you. ;)

Well, I have watched it much like I'd watch a car wreck while driving past it on the highway. But I actually have steadfastly avoided it lately. I'll watch WKYC more these days, primarily because of its new HD news...and they don't pimp NBC shows as much as WJW pimps "American Idol" et al...

Cleveland.com (Plain Dealer) reported in their Arts and Entertainment "Breaking News" page:

http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/entertainment/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_entertainment/archives/2006_06.html#152055

The last line of the post discussing news rating for the various stations, in regard to WOIO's future plans, says:

"The station plans to launch a digital channel, revamp its news set and start providing news to cell phones."

Since they already have a digital channel, I read this to mean a news or possibly weather subchannel.

If true, so much for the excellent CBS HD PQ in Cleveland. :(
It may be excellent HD, but it downconverts to SD terribly. I get "chroma pulsation" from the S-Video output of my 921. This only happens on WOIO viewed live. If I delay WOIO by as little as 3 seconds the pulsation goes away. Since I can get WKBN (which has a subchannel carrying an SD FOX station :eek: )I find myself watching them more often than 'OIO.

As far as the subchannel vs no subchannel debate, can those of you with true HD screens really tell the difference between a station with a subchannel (WKYC, WUAB) from those without (WEWS, WJW, WOIO)?

It may be excellent HD, but it downconverts to SD terribly. I get "chroma pulsation" from the S-Video output of my 921. This only happens on WOIO viewed live. If I delay WOIO by as little as 3 seconds the pulsation goes away. Since I can get WKBN (which has a subchannel carrying an SD FOX station :eek: )I find myself watching them more often than 'OIO.

As far as the subchannel vs no subchannel debate, can those of you with true HD screens really tell the difference between a station with a subchannel (WKYC, WUAB) from those without (WEWS, WJW, WOIO)?

I was actually comparing the picture quality of the Y-town stations (WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT) last night. Both stations carry a digital subchannel. Keep in mind that these are my subjective observations.

I have been very impressed with WKBN-DT's picture quality. Watching last night during Letterman, their PQ looked every bit as good as WOIO-DT. Their FOX subchannel was not that great, though - pretty "soft" (fuzzy) picture.

When I flipped over to WFMJ-DT for Leno, I thought the picture looked a little "softer" than WKBN-DT. Looking at their WB subchannel, though, I thought it looked better than WKBN-DT's FOX subchannel.

These observations lead me to believe that perhaps WFMJ-DT is allocating more bandwidth to its WB subchannel than WKBN-DT is allocating to its FOX subchannel. From past viewing of Indians games on the WKBN-DT FOX subchannel, I would say that this certainly seems to be the case. Of course, the difference that I seemed to observe last night between Letterman and Leno could be at the network sources - or they could be in my head! :D

Since both station engineers monitor this board and have posted here before, I would really be interested in seeing them weigh in on this subject. What do you say, Mr. Flis and Mr. Zocolo - care to share with us how you are splitting up the bandwidth in your digital braodcasts? Enqiring minds want to know! :D

are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something. :)

are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something. :)

Lookee here youngster, don't be makin fun of us just cause we're a bit up there in years. :D

... What do you say, Mr. Flis and Mr. Zocolo - care to share with us how you are splitting up the bandwidth in your digital braodcasts? Enqiring minds want to know! :D

WFMJ-HD:
Video=14MB
Audio=384KB

WBCB:
Video=3.75MB
Audio= 192KB

PSIP= approx 1 MB

I am hitting my head on the 19.393MB max. because you have to have about 500KB of headroom or it crashes, I use Tandberg encoders for both stations feeding a Logic Innovations mux. Both Tandbergs have the latest software that has extra processing. I actually did some comparisons through my equipment vendor in Wisconsin and they agree I look better than what they've seen and wanted a copy of my encoder settings. At this point in time I'm doing the best that technology and MPEG2 let me.

are you guys all 80 years old? you are talking about the 5pm evening news like its 24 or Lost or something. :)

What are you, 16? Talking about the news like only people over 80 watch it?

;)

Is anyone seeing a difference in WKYCDT over-the-air in the last few days? I've been one of the few who has not had a problem with Channel 2 digital with my antenna in the attic, but, now that I want to watch the U.S. Open, my signal strength declined to the point where, at times, I lose picture completely. I first noticed yesterday but was at my dad's in Youngstown (TV21 looked good) so didn't care. I fiddled with the antenna in the attic and got signal back (the signal strength went from 55-65 to 68-72), but am afraid I'll lose it again later today. I don't think I have new tree growth in the way.

Is anyone seeing a difference in WKYCDT over-the-air in the last few days? I've been one of the few who has not had a problem with Channel 2 digital with my antenna in the attic, but, now that I want to watch the U.S. Open, my signal strength declined to the point where, at times, I lose picture completely. I first noticed yesterday but was at my dad's in Youngstown (TV21 looked good) so didn't care. I fiddled with the antenna in the attic and got signal back (the signal strength went from 55-65 to 68-72), but am afraid I'll lose it again later today. I don't think I have new tree growth in the way.

I have noticed that my reception of WKYC-TV analog channel 3 has been LOUSY this weekend - pretty much unwatchable. Of course, I have not seen a hint of WKYC-DT digital 2 for a while. I suspect that atmospheric conditions lately are really playing havoc with low-VHF - making it worse than usual.

WFMJ-HD:
Video=14MB
Audio=384KB

WBCB:
Video=3.75MB
Audio= 192KB

PSIP= approx 1 MB

I am hitting my head on the 19.393MB max. because you have to have about 500KB of headroom or it crashes, I use Tandberg encoders for both stations feeding a Logic Innovations mux. Both Tandbergs have the latest software that has extra processing. I actually did some comparisons through my equipment vendor in Wisconsin and they agree I look better than what they've seen and wanted a copy of my encoder settings. At this point in time I'm doing the best that technology and MPEG2 let me.

Bob,

Thanks for the response. I think you are doing a good job splitting up the bandwidth between the main channel and the subchannel. Keep it up!

I had great reception this weekend except for 5-1 WEWS, kept fading badly. Don't know why, Golf came in great, but Soccer kept searching for signal on Directv HD receiver. My line of sight is thru some trees, but since the other stations 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1 all came in at least 80% signal strenght, i ruled out the wind factor. I live along 422 in bainbridge, which would be about 25 miles from the transmitter. Hate to rotate antenna and make the others stations worst.

There is an interesting article about how STO is doing in todays (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/roger_brown/index.ssf?/base/sports/1150706224242111.xml&coll=2) Plain Dealer. You may have to fill out a little info when you click the link but it's not anything major.

He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.

I would like to understand why it is that when WKYC shows an HD telecast they deliver so little to the rear speakers. STO's HD telecast has higher quality Dolby sound, but both register still as "5.0."

Neither sound as good as Fox's Saturday S.D. game which broadcasts in Dolby 5.1.

There is an interesting article about how STO is doing in todays (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/roger_brown/index.ssf?/base/sports/1150706224242111.xml&coll=2) Plain Dealer. You may have to fill out a little info when you click the link but it's not anything major.

He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.

I would like to understand why it is that when WKYC shows an HD telecast they deliver so little to the rear speakers. STO's HD telecast has higher quality Dolby sound, but both register still as "5.0."

Neither sound as good as Fox's Saturday S.D. game which broadcasts in Dolby 5.1.

They use the ".1" channel for DTMF tones to cue the cable companies. Unless the crowd starts stomping at their seats, there really isn't any LFE in baseball anyway. Even on 5.1 games on ESPN, my powered subwoofer automatically shuts off until the commercials come on if it's a long 1/2 inning. I toured thier facility last week and I was impressed with how much they do have in such a short time period and starting from scratch.

Wondering if anyone subscribed to Comcast is using a QAM tuner to pull in the HD locals. If so, what channel numbers do you have for CBS and ABC? I can see NBC at 82.1 and Fox at 82.2. I used to be able to see CBS and ABC at 115.1 and 115.10, but haven't been able to find them recently.

He points out how technically STO is behind other broadcasters. He doesn't specifically mention HD.


I don't understand the bitching about STO. You know what we would have for Indians baseball if FSN Ohio was doing the telecasts this year? 100% of the games in SD, and not very good SD at that. AFAIK, FSN Ohio never made any pronouncements that HD Indians games were coming in the near future. I don't have a problem with STO's graphics or production quality. Sure, I've noticed a few audio problems, but nothing that was a showstopper. In fact, I prefer *not* to have all the ridiculous sound effects Fox usually inserts into the score ticker when elements change. With STO's commitment to do 100% HD next year on home and away games, I think we're pretty damn lucky here, and way ahead of some other larger markets.

Edit: FWIW, here's an excerpt from FSN HD's current info page:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1528357

"How many HD games does FSN HD produce for each team?
FSN HD will typically produce at least 10 games per NBA team, 10 games per NHL team, and 17 games per Major League Baseball team."

The only market they have any significant coverage in is FSN Florida. All the other markets have very little to no HD from FSN.

I don't understand the bitching about STO.

I didn't think I was bitching but I'm not happy with the audio portion of STO. If that's bitching then that's ok, I complain about everything. :)

Really I just posted the link because I thought some others might be interested. I agree that when we had FSN and if we still had it we'd get far less HD.

Maybe it's not the quality of the picture ...... more the quality (or lack of) the play? :D

Does anyone have any update on the Time Warner takeover? I thought I read somewere that if it wasn't aproved by the end of June, it wasn't going to happen.

Ben Music

Actually it's the end of July, although I don't think the date is totally firm. From the articles I've read, things are moving as smoothly as can be expected, given the major issues involved.


Does anyone have any update on the Time Warner takeover? I thought I read somewere that if it wasn't aproved by the end of June, it wasn't going to happen.

Ben Music

I didn't think I was bitching but I'm not happy with the audio portion of STO. If that's bitching then that's ok, I complain about everything. :)

Really I just posted the link because I thought some others might be interested. I agree that when we had FSN and if we still had it we'd get far less HD.

Maybe it's not the quality of the picture ...... more the quality (or lack of) the play? :D

:D Sorry ... I was referring to the PD writer as the "bitcher", and also the whiners I've heard call into that WKNR/FSN "Rants" postgame show complaining about how "terrible", "unprofessional' and "unwatchable" STO is.

:D Sorry ... I was referring to the PD writer as the "bitcher", and also the whiners I've heard call into that WKNR/FSN "Rants" postgame show complaining about how "terrible", "unprofessional' and "unwatchable" STO is.
Those tools can rant all they want, it won't bring the Indians games back to FSN.

WKNR & FSN make a nice couple - two has-beens (or is it a wanna be and a has been?) :D

They should just shut down FSN Ohio - North and give us the feed that carries the FSNO Cincinnatti Reds games. Back in IIRC '99 the feed I got over Dish network carried some Reds games in addition to all the Indians that FSN had that year. As a mater of fact the Reds games I saw were from a UPN affilliate! This was on E* chan 425.

I don't understand the bitching about STO. You know what we would have for Indians baseball if FSN Ohio was doing the telecasts this year? 100% of the games in SD, and not very good SD at that. AFAIK, FSN Ohio never made any pronouncements that HD Indians games were coming in the near future. I don't have a problem with STO's graphics or production quality. Sure, I've noticed a few audio problems, but nothing that was a showstopper. In fact, I prefer *not* to have all the ridiculous sound effects Fox usually inserts into the score ticker when elements change. With STO's commitment to do 100% HD next year on home and away games, I think we're pretty damn lucky here, and way ahead of some other larger markets.

Edit: FWIW, here's an excerpt from FSN HD's current info page:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/1528357

"How many HD games does FSN HD produce for each team?
FSN HD will typically produce at least 10 games per NBA team, 10 games per NHL team, and 17 games per Major League Baseball team."

The only market they have any significant coverage in is FSN Florida. All the other markets have very little to no HD from FSN.

I agree....remember how FSN Ohio back peddled after losing Indians and started doing select HD Cavs games!

I don't know the Plain Dealer writer's issues with STO, and he didn't go into many details. Most of his technical critiques were transmission related, which I think they've fixed.

I'm interested in knowing what technical things the STO GM has in store. I thought they were maxed out as is.

They should just shut down FSN Ohio - North and give us the feed that carries the FSNO Cincinnatti Reds games. Back in IIRC '99 the feed I got over Dish network carried some Reds games in addition to all the Indians that FSN had that year. As a mater of fact the Reds games I saw were from a UPN affilliate! This was on E* chan 425.

A couple of times I've noticed on the Adelphia integrated program guide that they have Cincinnati on FSN, but I never tuned to it because it's an analog broadcast and since I have MLB I can get a digital signal for those games. Doesn't always mean a better picture but it definitely lets my sound system do it's Dolby trick thing better. :)

I tuned to FSN yesterday as it was listed as the Reds but there was something else, old boxing or something.

I had great reception this weekend except for 5-1 WEWS, kept fading badly. Don't know why, Golf came in great, but Soccer kept searching for signal on Directv HD receiver. My line of sight is thru some trees, but since the other stations 3-1, 3-2, 8-1, 19-1, 43-1 all came in at least 80% signal strenght, i ruled out the wind factor. I live along 422 in bainbridge, which would be about 25 miles from the transmitter. Hate to rotate antenna and make the others stations worst.

snagy - I'm about 10 miles SW of the antenna farm and had the same issue. 5-1 is like that every couple of weeks for me and fluctuates between 80%+ and <50%. I think that it's a multipath issue. Unfortunately, during those times, I have to choose between a position that works for 5-1, or a position that works for all the other channels.

FSN Ohio can't carry the Reds up here, even if they wanted to. We're not in the team's territory.

Columbus gets the FSN Ohio/Cincinnati based feed with the Reds.

As far as the PD column goes, it was written by Roger Brown. His stuff is usually not worth the newsprint and ink it takes to print it! STO did have some well-publicized problems early on, but it's mostly been solid the past month and change.

Oh, and I briefly got WKBN-DT tonight with my indoor antenna pointing nearly DUE east, as opposed to approximately ESE as normal.

Then...it went away.

Then, I picked up the antenna and lifted it above the window ledge, and out from the window, and got it again at a specific position. A position I'd have to bring a ladder downstairs to place the antenna there. :D

I presume tonight's weather was responsible for all of the above...though it was within the past hour, after all of the thunderstorms had died down/moved away from the area.

Is it unusual to not get any signal at all on WKYC-DT2, but be able to get WEWS-DT, WJW-DT, WOIO-DT, WUAB-DT without any issues? WKYC-TV3 comes in, but has a lot of snow. WEWS-TV5 and WJW-TV8 also do, but not as badly.

I have an attic install near Westlake. I tried a pair of bunny ears.. Then tried a Radioshack VHF/UHF outdoor antenna. No signal at all on either one even though everything else comes in. I tried using a vhf/uhf preamplifier too (which just makes the other signals higher). Antennaweb says the towers are about 7 miles away.

I get WKYC-DT2 with no problems and I am ~27 miles from the source. I use an outdoor antenna though. I never pick up anything on WKYC-DT3.

WKYC is a VHF channel, and the others are UHF...perhaps that is the reason you get some and not others? I use an omnidirection UHF flyswatter combined with a direction VHF antenna (just for WKYC) without much trouble, although during the stomrs yesterday WKYC-DT2 was pretty flakey.

Oh, and I briefly got WKBN-DT tonight with my indoor antenna pointing nearly DUE east, as opposed to approximately ESE as normal.

Then...it went away.

Then, I picked up the antenna and lifted it above the window ledge, and out from the window, and got it again at a specific position. A position I'd have to bring a ladder downstairs to place the antenna there. :D

I presume tonight's weather was responsible for all of the above...though it was within the past hour, after all of the thunderstorms had died down/moved away from the area.
The weather definitly had some influence on the OTA situation last night. I was able to get a lock on WYTV-DT, the weakest of the Youngstown stations. WFMJ-TV 21 (analog) came in perfectly, however I still could not lock onto their digital signal. WKBN/WYFX was a solid 116 (on the E* scale) the highest I ever got WKBN-DT.

As for why the storm was over here when the OTA activity picked up:the storms moved east. the clouds were over Youngstown, bending the signal towards us.

WKYC is a VHF channel, and the others are UHF...perhaps that is the reason you get some and not others?

Strange I get WOIO-DT10, though, with a pretty good signal strength since that's a VHF channel (although high).

As for why the storm was over here when the OTA activity picked up:the storms moved east. the clouds were over Youngstown, bending the signal towards us.

By the time I was picking up WKBN-DT in my proverbial teeth, the worst of the weather had even exited Youngstown...so perhaps just the trailing clouds were indeed responsible.

It's very much unpredictable for us out here on the edge of the signal!

good band opening last night and this morning...
seeing Pittsburgh DTs and a DT from Columbus (4)...
this morning analogs from Erie (12,24,66?)...
all from inside antennas...

Ed...

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1150965701213020.xml&coll=2

There is already a deal in place with DirecTV. No mention of HD.

good band opening last night and this morning...
seeing Pittsburgh DTs and a DT from Columbus (4)...
this morning analogs from Erie (12,24,66?)...
all from inside antennas...

Ed...Yep, Erie has analogs on 12,24 & 66. They also have one on 54 and 35. Since we have an LPTV station on 35 now here in Cleveland, every time the skip is up the two stations battle it out :(

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1150965701213020.xml&coll=2

There is already a deal in place with DirecTV. No mention of HD.

I seriously doubt HD is in the works. It's probably going to fall under the realm of the FSN people where HD is spotty at best. Plus, factor in that it's bandwidth stretched out to the max DirecTV and not a terrestrial cable operator.

Also, ESPN/ABC are still contracted to do a lot of the big draw marquee Big Ten football and basketball games. So expect to see at least the ESPN in HD.

I seriously doubt HD is in the works. It's probably going to fall under the realm of the FSN people where HD is spotty at best. Plus, factor in that it's bandwidth stretched out to the max DirecTV and not a terrestrial cable operator.

There is a mention of HD, albeit a small and non-committal one:

http://bigten.cstv.com/genrel/062106aad.html


Many events will be produced in High-Definition television (HDTV).

There is a mention of HD, albeit a small and non-committal one:

http://bigten.cstv.com/genrel/062106aad.html


Good catch!

Is anyone having trouble receiving the o&o HD channels from DirecTv (80 & 88)? (CBS&Fox) Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?

Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?

I have the D* H20 receiver and AT9 dish. I can confirm that they lit up the HD locals today. To see them you have to go to the SD version of the channel and then channel up one time. It's been a long time coming. I am so happy as I have had issues pulling in channels 3 and 19 OTA.

I have the D* H20 receiver and AT9 dish. I can confirm that they lit up the HD locals today. To see them you have to go to the SD version of the channel and then channel up one time. It's been a long time coming. I am so happy as I have had issues pulling in channels 3 and 19 OTA.

Thx Kennedy,
I thought the launch date for HD Locals was in June sometime. Now I'm really suspicious this is why I've lost channels 80 & 88.

Is anyone still receiving 80 & 88 from Directv?

thx, Tom

It's a couple paragraphs down.

Scripps Networks Launches Food Network HD (http://finanzen.net/news/news_detail.asp?NewsNr=409781)

The article mentions an unnamed satellite company, which is rumored to be Dish, since they already offer HGTV HD.

I just did a google on TW/Adelphia and the first link took me to the FCC page. Some leagal mumbo jumbo there from Echo Star that quite honestly I didn't understand but it seemed to be the latest document submitted on the matter.

I know 7/31/06 is suppose to be the end date. Anybody else heard anything new? Adelphia is dragging their heals a bit now in offering any new hd programing or any upgrades for the SA 8300. It's understandable, just wish they'd move forward.

It was in this morning's business page in the PD. The bankruptcy judge has approved the sale. There are still some more steps, but it's on schedule.

Here's the Ohio Media Watch link from yesterday:
http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/06/next-adelphia-step-approved.html

Is anyone having trouble receiving the o&o HD channels from DirecTv (80 & 88)? (CBS&Fox) Also is anyone planning to receive Cleveland locals in HD from Directv in mpeg4?
If you live in the Cleveland DMA you are not elligible for CBS, since WOIO is not an O&O station (WJW is O&O for FOX).

its a non issue at this point anyways as the cleveland locals are on so you wont get O& O anymore.

Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....

Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....

It's not available yet for some reason... Here's the link:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060628005467&newsLang=en

Is anyone having a problem getting Channel 19 (CBS) in HD on D* for the new Cleveland HD channels? I am getting 3,5,8 in HD but not 19....

Just a wild hunch but maybe D* is trying to make a HD deal for My Network in the same negotiation with Channel 19 since 19 and 43 are sister Raycom stations.

For those of you who have been getting your HD OTA and now get them via D*, can you see a difference between OTA and D* HDLIL?

For those of you who have been getting your HD OTA and now get them via D*, can you see a difference between OTA and D* HDLIL?

I did a quick comparison this AM on FOX news and ABCs Good Morning America and could not tell a difference between the two. I'll do a more in depth comparison tonight (not sure what's on). From what I understand about D* HD "Lite" however is that FOX and ABC (being 720p) are offered in their native format. It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime!

From what I understand about D* HD "Lite" however is that FOX and ABC (being 720p) are offered in their native format. It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime!

You can check it out with WKYC's new HD news broadcasts, as soon as 6 PM tonight...

Oh, and even whenever 19 comes to terms with D*, don't hold your breath for 43. At least at the beginning, they're only offering the "Big Four" networks on LIL.

its a non issue at this point anyways as the cleveland locals are on so you wont get O& O anymore.

It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.

Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?

thx, Tom

[QUOTE=KennedyJ It is the NBC and CBS 1080i broadcasts that are down converted to 1280x1080. I'm anxious for primetime![/QUOTE]

FWIW I took a look at the DTV web site today. No mention of local HD channels, but obviously they exist.

Now about the above statement. I've never heard of 1280x1080. What exactly does that mean and how is it a "down covert?" Not saying your wrong, I truly don't understand. Kindly educate me. :)

I've never heard of 1280x1080. What exactly does that mean and how is it a "down covert?" Not saying your wrong, I truly don't understand. Kindly educate me. :)

Here's a web site that is dedicated to this very topic:

http://www.stophdlite.com/

I hope it helps!

Here's a web site that is dedicated to this very topic:

http://www.stophdlite.com/

I hope it helps!

Thanks, that was very helpful. I'll definitely stick with cable for now.

I am looking at Dish, I might go that direction.

Here are my first impressions of the D* HDLiL picture quality…

There was no noticeable difference in picture quality between my OTA feeds of FOX and ABC broadcasts and the D* broadcasts last night. However, the D* FOX feed was unwatchable due to audio sync issues. Hopefully they’ll clean that up right away. I would have to lean in the favor of the OTA broadcast of NBC. At times the D* feed appeared “soft”. To be honest, it was a close call. And I am not viewing the picture at true 1920x1080/i, so there could be a more pronounced distinction between the two on a higher end HDTV (my set is 1366x768/p). I am happy to finally have the feeds though. I wonder how long it will take to come to terms with WOIO???

Here are my first impressions of the D* HDLiL picture quality…

I am happy to finally have the feeds though. I wonder how long it will take to come to terms with WOIO???

Don't hold your breath. WOIO has a history of wanting more money then anyone else. It took Adelphia a long time to get them to give an HD feed, and by their own admission when it comes to Dolby 5.1, well, if you pay for it they will provide it.

does NBC still glitch with the D*feed?

does NBC still glitch with the D*feed?

I watched the entire 11:00 news broadcast and part of whatever was on beforehand and didn't notice any problem with the picture in terms of pixelation.

thats good to hear because I am getting mine on Friday. It sucks that I have to pay an extra $5.00 a month to keep my H10-250 active, so I can record on it. Has anyone tried to get them to waive that cost? They should waive it.

thats good to hear because I am getting mine on Friday. It sucks that I have to pay an extra $5.00 a month to keep my H10-250 active, so I can record on it. Has anyone tried to get them to waive that cost? They should waive it.


Interesting. Cable just started charging us a 5.00 "service charge" for using our DVR's (Adelphia).

Sometimes I think their all in cahoots with each other.

It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.

Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?

thx, TomThe new Dish Network 622 is an MPEG4 DVR that can record HD OTA.

Interesting. Cable just started charging us a 5.00 "service charge" for using our DVR's (Adelphia).

Sometimes I think their all in cahoots with each other.

That's it...the 8000HD goes back to Adelphia on Monday and I'm cancelling the HDTV Tier.

If I really want to record anything in HD (network-OTA wise), I can do it on my Fusion box downstairs, for free. Most of my watching is done down here now, anyway.

It's still an issue because there's no way to record the Cleveland locals in HD with the new mpeg4 system. They haven't come out with their new HD DVR mpeg4 yet. Most people will not upgrade to the mpeg4 system until they can record HD.

Were your DNS HD channels shut off as well?

thx, Tom

Never thought of it that way, thank you for pointing that out! and right now I just signed up with directv, install is tommorow, so I dont know if I will have it or not ( I am going to say no)

Is there a way, other than punching each number in to find what chanels have the signals?

Anyone else from the Massillon Ohio area have the answer?

I just got me H20 yesterday. I was told anytime between 1-5, the guy shows up at around 5:45. He did not leave until about 9:15.

Post #5715 merged in.

Post #5715 merged in.
What does that mean?

What does that mean?

I think it means that a moderator placed a post that was put somewhere else into this thread instead. Look for post #5715 from Ognir above.

I think it means that a moderator placed a post that was put somewhere else into this thread instead. Look for post #5715 from Ognir above.

I bet you are right.
Now thinking back I did try to open it as a new topic as I really didn't think if fit into the Cleveland Ohio group. It is 60 miles away so guess they figured it would.

sorry if this was earlier, I have MISSED ALOT of conversation as my auto email was working to tell me there was new posts, anywho Directv is rumored to be uplinking STO and FOX sports OHio HD before the End of the month (for STO) and end of the year (FOX sports ohio) we will see if this holds true!

I bet you are right.
Now thinking back I did try to open it as a new topic as I really didn't think if fit into the Cleveland Ohio group. It is 60 miles away so guess they figured it would.

Massillon is firmly within the Cleveland/Akron (Canton) TV market as defined by Nielsen. If your local TV stations are the ones out of Cleveland, you're basically in the market.

I wish I could help you, but I don't know much about Massillon Cable - except that it is the sister service of Wooster's Clear Picture.

As far as STO/FSN Ohio in HD on DirecTV's HD LIL - we won't know until tomorrow night, as that's the first STO HD game since the supposed start of the uplinking, July 1st. Can some of the folks here with the DirecTV HD LIL package check for us tomorrow?

FoodTV-HD is up and running on Wide Open West channel 217. PQ is excellent. No guide data yet. It will be interesting to see Giada in all her HD glory. :D

any one else notice that wkyc seems to be in slow motion. Whats with that ?as usual DTV screws up again!

I'm not seeing any such problems on WKYC-DT - via Adelphia cable, QAM tuner.

When you say "DTV screws up again", are you watching via their new HDTV LIL service? I've seen others talk about some audio sync problems and other minor glitches. I'm sure they'll figure it out soon.

I'm not seeing any such problems on WKYC-DT - via Adelphia cable, QAM tuner.

When you say "DTV screws up again", are you watching via their new HDTV LIL service? I've seen others talk about some audio sync problems and other minor glitches. I'm sure they'll figure it out soon.

I noticed the audio sync problem today on WKYC

Tomorrow (7/3) IS NOT an STO game - is it on WKYC-3. Tuesday is the next STO game.

Tomorrow (7/3) IS NOT an STO game - is it on WKYC-3. Tuesday is the next STO game.

Oh, that'd explain that!

:D

I noticed the audio sync problem today on WKYC

I didn't, and I checked in for about 15 minutes in the 7 PM hour.

What are you using to receive WKYC-DT? (And anyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give that information when you report problems with an OTA channel! There are now three different ways to receive WKYC-DT - OTA, cable and now DirecTV HD LIL, and any number of cable systems...)

Oh, that'd explain that!

:D



I didn't, and I checked in for about 15 minutes in the 7 PM hour.

What are you using to receive WKYC-DT? (And anyone, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give that information when you report problems with an OTA channel! There are now three different ways to receive WKYC-DT - OTA, cable and now DirecTV HD LIL, and any number of cable systems...)


I am new at this so please bare with me
The time I was watching WKYC DT was this morning between 8:30 and 10:30am
It was on Massillon Cable with a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR1 Wega
No cable box etc.
I am getting the WKYC DT signal at
3.1 and 80.1

I am new at this so please bare with me
The time I was watching WKYC DT was this morning between 8:30 and 10:30am
It was on Massillon Cable with a Sony BRAVIA KDL-V32XBR1 Wega
No cable box etc.
I am getting the WKYC DT signal at
3.1 and 80.1

OK, so you're watching via QAM.

I wasn't watching this morning, so I can't tell you if it was repeated here on my setup (Adelphia, also via QAM). I specifically asked because the DirecTV folks are new at getting HD via the satellite, and there may be glitches that we aren't seeing otherwise.

Many of the cable systems pick up the digital OTA stations over air - I know Adelphia does. I don't know how Massillon Cable picks up WKYC-DT. If there's an over-air problem, it'll likely be duplicated here on Adelphia (aside from localized reception problems, since Adelphia uses their big towers to pick up the signal)...but I don't know about your system.

I receive the Cleveland locals OTA using a E* (the abbreviation for Dish Network for anyone new to the forums) 921. I get occasional audio sync problems, most of the time on WEWS and WOIO during the news programs.

If I'm getting the sync problem OTA, it stands to reason that the same problem should exist on the digital local channels via cable or satellilte delivered ("LIL" - local into local) signals.

You would think that there would be a way for the audio data to be "locked" in the MPEG-2 data stream.

I receive the Cleveland locals OTA using a E* (the abbreviation for Dish Network for anyone new to the forums) 921. I get occasional audio sync problems, most of the time on WEWS and WOIO during the news programs.

WOIO IS a sync problem. :D

You may have stumbled onto something here. If you get it during news, that means the problem is somewhere in the upconversion of the SD product, since 5 and 19 don't do HD newscasts. It would not explain the earlier reported problems with WKYC, unless the newscast was national and not in HD...

I'm not getting the Indians game in HD tonight on WOW channel 221 (STOHD) - it's a black screen and "off air" in the guide data. I am getting the regular SD broadcast on channel 72 however... Anybody else getting it in HD ?

I'm not getting the Indians game in HD tonight on WOW channel 221 (STOHD) - it's a black screen and "off air" in the guide data. I am getting the regular SD broadcast on channel 72 however... Anybody else getting it in HD ?

I didn't know that there was a STOHD channel
I thought the HD games were the few that are on WKYC

I didn't know that there was a STOHD channel
I thought the HD games were the few that are on WKYC

http://www.sportstimeohio.com/

Not all the cable systems pick up the HD channel. Massillon Cable doesn't. Time Warner, Adelphia, WOW and others do.

You can pull down each system at that site, to see if it has HD.

BTW, did any of you DirecTV HD LIL folks tune to channel 96 tonight to see the Indians in HD on STO?

Paule123,

It was on the Adelphia HDBON Channel last night, although they didn't have it listed in the guide. The guide showed off-air.

BTW, did any of you DirecTV HD LIL folks tune to channel 96 tonight to see the Indians in HD on STO?

It was listed in the guide but there was no picture. It might be because I'm not subscribed to the MLB package.

It was listed in the guide but there was no picture. It might be because I'm not subscribed to the MLB package.


Huh? Do you get regular STO games? If so you should get the HD one's as well.

I'd make a call if that's the case. You shouldn't need MLB to get STO in HD, and if you arn't in the area that D* said they were going to broadcast STO then you wouldn't get anything MLB or not.

I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO
I tried to get it and was denied, also

http://www.sportstimeohio.com/

Not all the cable systems pick up the HD channel. Massillon Cable doesn't. Time Warner, Adelphia, WOW and others do.

You can pull down each system at that site, to see if it has HD.

The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.
Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.
That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )
That is according to the STO press releases.

The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.
Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.
That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )
That is according to the STO press releases.

Massillon Cable only has the SD version of STO, they don't have the HD version.

Select Wide Open West or Adelphia from the drop down box and you'll see those cable systems have two different channels for STO.

You are correct, only the home games are HD, as well as the 20 WKYC games home and away.

I beleive the current discussion is whether DirecTV started to carry STO in HD. In my D* guide I have channel 95 (usually reserved for HD special events) showing Indians/Yankees at 7pm tonight. We shall see in about 50 minutes :D

Edit: It's game time, and D* has the special HD events channel 95, ESPN-HD, and ESPN (SD) blacked out (not available in your area). So as far as D* is concerned for Cleveland customers, the game is only on STO (SD) channel 657 tonight. *sigh*

Edit: It's game time, and D* has the special HD events channel 95, ESPN-HD, and ESPN (SD) blacked out (not available in your area). So as far as D* is concerned for Cleveland customers, the game is only on STO (SD) channel 657 tonight. *sigh*

Is there anything listed on 96? Not 95, look at 96. 95 is the MLB "Extra Innings" package.

You won't get HD STO unless you have the newer MPEG4 equipment.

The pull down does have Massillon Cable listed.
Unless something changed only 80 games would be in HD.
That includes every game on WKYC ( 20 )
That is according to the STO press releases.

Massillon Cable does not carry the HD feed from STO. Period.

I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO
I tried to get it and was denied, also

Sigh, let's try this again.

STO would only be in HD (if it's up) on channel 96 (NOT 95!). No MLB EI subscription should be needed.

It would only show up if you have the newer MPEG4 HD equipment, the same equipment that now feeds HD LIL (local-into-local) channels like 3, 5 and 8 (19 whenever they get off their butts and agree to it).

If you don't have the new equipment and don't get 3/5/8 in HD from DirecTV's satellites, this message isn't for you...but I thought we had at least a couple of folks with the new HD stuff in here, which is why I asked.

Massillon Cable does not carry the HD feed from STO. Period.

Ok, not the end of the world!
It is part of the basic package on Massillon Cable
so there is no additional cost . I can live watching my 20 games.

Ok, not the end of the world!
It is part of the basic package on Massillon Cable
so there is no additional cost . I can live watching my 20 games.

Here on Adelphia, the HD games are no additional cost as well. They're in the same tier as the over-air stations. And if you have a QAM tuner like I do, you can even pick them up without a converter box!

I believe that the HD was the NY broadcast, not STO
I tried to get it and was denied, also

Same here, "channel not available" but the guide says its there.

Is there anything listed on 96? Not 95, look at 96. 95 is the MLB "Extra Innings" package.

You won't get HD STO unless you have the newer MPEG4 equipment.

I don't have the new equipment, and don't have a channel 96 in my guide. I thought I'd give it a try since everything in the 90's on D* has traditionally been the old MPEG2 format. I thought they might make up a new range of channel numbers for MPEG4 stuff but maybe not...

I asked this earlier in the week so here it goes again i have DTV HD with the locals in HD i had the WJW audio problem not sure if thats gone. But the problem i have had since day one is WKYC HD and now STO HD channel 96 seems like its in slow motion is anyone else having that problem with either channel?? i have the H20 and the 5 lnb dish