While it is nice that they added TNTHD and WUABHD, My only concern and question is "Will we keep all our other HD channels????? I know that Adelphia wasn't the greatest at times but they were pretty consistent the last year. I have heard a number of horror stories from friends who have TWC. I just hope things get even better instead of worse.

I hate to say this but if you go to www.nflgetreal.com the form Time Warner wants us to sign is to allow them to put the NFL Network into a sports package. Which means that if you want this, you will pay more money.

At first I thought bad idea but now I'm thinking why not? Why should someone else have to pay for something that I may want but they don't?

I think it's geared to the "cafeteria cable" type thinking that seems to be approaching. Hopefully we will be able to purchase what we want on cable and not have to pay for everything else.

We, Lifeline, Asia, Japan, all this other stuff in espanol that I have no interest in. Let others pay for it who do.

Just a thought.

While it is nice that they added TNTHD and WUABHD, My only concern and question is "Will we keep all our other HD channels????? I know that Adelphia wasn't the greatest at times but they were pretty consistent the last year. I have heard a number of horror stories from friends who have TWC. I just hope things get even better instead of worse.

I wouldn't worry, every indication is nothing should change other then what they have told us.

All HD channels in my area on TW are now back up. :)

Just wondering
Where did TNT HD end up ???
Thanks

I hate to say this but if you go to www.nflgetreal.com the form Time Warner wants us to sign is to allow them to put the NFL Network into a sports package. Which means that if you want this, you will pay more money.

This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.

Provide personal info at your own risk.

Does anyone know what would happen if you hooked up an external QAM tuner to an analog television set through component video cables ? I know that, unlike an HDTV monitor, it would not pick up unscrambled hi-def programming, but what about unscrambled standard digital channels ? I know that many people send their digital satellite signals into an analog TV and still get a better (if not a true digital) picture. Would not the same concept apply here ?

Sure it does. Heck, you can even watch the non-encrypted HD programming available on your cable system. Just make sure to set the output on the STB to 480i and you should be all set. This will make the STB take any HD picture or any digital picture (generally 480p) and convert it to 480i which is what your TV accepts. There could be a couple other caveats I haven't thought of, but if all else fails, use s-video.

Just wondering
Where did TNT HD end up ???
Thanks

In my area, channel 779.

Last night was the first time I did not see any "chroma pulsing" on WOIO-DT on my 921. Also "The Tube" on WUAB-DT 43-2 looks much better (the streaming video-like pixillation is almost completely gone).

I know some of us (me included) have posted complaints about these two Raycom stations. I did not want to let these improvements go without passing on my complements to the Raycom engineering staff. What ever you guys did recently has greatly improved the picture quality on both stations! Thanks again.

This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.

Provide personal info at your own risk.

Well, the web site is listed along with the explanation of why the NFL Channel is no longer available right on Channel 778 which use to be the NFL HD channel, so unless someone has hacked into the cable broadcast system which I strongly doubt I got to believe it's a legit site.

This form does not appear to be provided by TWC. I did a look up on this domain name in it was registered/created on 7/18/2006 by Ketchum Inc. It would seem to me that TWC could register their own domain names just like timewarnercable.com. I'm not saying this isn't legit, it just seems fishy.

Provide personal info at your own risk.

Ketchum is a PR firm for the cablecos. They were involved with setting up the www.makethemplayfair.com website whining about the high cost of STO back in March.

Now c'mon, it really doesn't surprise you that a cable company doesn't know how to register their own domain name, does it? :D

"Browns reach deal with FSN Ohio


11:28 a.m.

The Cleveland Browns announced today that FSN Ohio will be the regional cable home for the team.

The announcement was made by Steve Liverani, Vice President and General Manager, FSN Ohio, and Bill Bonsiewicz, Vice President of Communications for the Cleveland Browns.

FSN Ohio plans three shows for the upcoming season, including a 30-minute, nightly training camp show. The show will be hosted by FSN Ohio's Michael Reghi and former Browns quarterback Mike Pagel and will also feature linebacker Andra Davis. It will air nightly at 7 p.m. during training camp.

FSN Ohio will also carry live coverage of Romeo Crennel's weekly press conferences every Monday (beginning Sept. 11) and will host Browns Table, a weekly roundtable premiering on Sept. 14. "


Looks like FSN Ohio is trying to bounce back from the loss of the Tribe by scoring this and the Cavs in 2007.

As far as I'm concerned the current WOIO management can take a hike ... as I'm sure there advertisers are.

FSN will have their own training camp show daily, too. I may switch to watch it over STO because 1) it'll be on earlier 2) it'll be at a set time (DVR purposes). The STO show is usually dependent on when the Tribe game ends which is a bear to try and set the programming.

"Browns reach deal with FSN Ohio


11:28 a.m.

The Cleveland Browns announced today that FSN Ohio will be the regional cable home for the team.

The announcement was made by Steve Liverani, Vice President and General Manager, FSN Ohio, and Bill Bonsiewicz, Vice President of Communications for the Cleveland Browns.

FSN Ohio plans three shows for the upcoming season, including a 30-minute, nightly training camp show. The show will be hosted by FSN Ohio's Michael Reghi and former Browns quarterback Mike Pagel and will also feature linebacker Andra Davis. It will air nightly at 7 p.m. during training camp.

FSN Ohio will also carry live coverage of Romeo Crennel's weekly press conferences every Monday (beginning Sept. 11) and will host Browns Table, a weekly roundtable premiering on Sept. 14. "


Looks like FSN Ohio is trying to bounce back from the loss of the Tribe by scoring this and the Cavs in 2007.

As far as I'm concerned the current WOIO management can take a hike ... as I'm sure there advertisers are.

FSN will have their own training camp show daily, too. I may switch to watch it over STO because 1) it'll be on earlier 2) it'll be at a set time (DVR purposes). The STO show is usually dependent on when the Tribe game ends which is a bear to try and set the programming.

First, where did you get this from? Not that I doubt the authenticity of what you are providing but I would have liked to see a link.

Second, unless I'm blind I didn't see anything in there that says that FSN Ohio is broadcasting the pre season games, which I believe your title indicated.

First, where did you get this from? Not that I doubt the authenticity of what you are providing but I would have liked to see a link.

Second, unless I'm blind I didn't see anything in there that says that FSN Ohio is broadcasting the pre season games, which I believe your title indicated.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!

Hookbill is right though. The original message has the title:

FSN Scores the Browns Telecasts


That certainly implies games, not just interview programs, etc.



http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

there ya go hookbill, front page third story down, dosent say anything about preseason. Reghi out as cavs voice is first story!

As a matter of fact it does indeed talk about preseason and it says that FSN OHIO will not be the broadcaster of preseason games as the NFL requires that those games be carried ota.

And thank you for the link. :)

sorry just scanned through the article, I even knew that NFL requires ALL football games to be carried Over the Air for the Local teams.

I've been out of town, wondering if former Adelphia, now TWC/TiVo users have received a programming/channel update? Thanks.

I must have slept through the TW-ex-Adelphia outage. I've seen no problems.

Everything that's supposed to be up here is up, including TNT-HD and WUAB-HD, C-SPAN 3 and even NBA TV, though that's supposed to be in a Digital Plus tier I don't pay for (and I don't get any other Digital Plus channels).

Not only is WUAB-HD on my QAM USB HDTV tuner, TNT-HD is also on there! I don't think that'll last.

I've been out of town, wondering if former Adelphia, now TWC/TiVo users have received a programming/channel update? Thanks.

I haven't gotten the TiVo update yet.

Tribune Media Services must not have propogated it yet. The old Adelphia lineup still exists on Zap2It.com, which carries the same TMS data as TiVo does.

As a matter of fact it does indeed talk about preseason and it says that FSN OHIO will not be the broadcaster of preseason games as the NFL requires that those games be carried ota.

And thank you for the link. :)

There's an update now, as the OTA game rights will possibly be announced tomorrow.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/08/sports-media-fallout.html

It looks like either 3 or 5 will get it.

My TWC was back on and fine last night.
I havent had time to evaluate any improvements to the analog channels.

FCC Orders Time Warner Cable to Reinstate NFL Network

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Communications Commission ordered Time Warner Cable to reinstate the NFL Network on some systems after the No. 2 U.S. cable operator pulled the channel in a contract dispute.

Time Warner stopped carrying NFL Network on Aug. 1, one day after acquiring the systems from Adelphia Communications Corp. and Comcast Corp. That violated rules requiring 30 days notice, the National Football League alleges, according to an e-mailed statement from the FCC today.

Time Warner's move was part of a negotiating tactic, the FCC said, finding there was ``sufficient prospect of success'' in the NFL's complaint to justify the order. Subscribers are affected in cities including Cleveland, Dallas and Buffalo, New York, all of which have NFL teams. The NFL Network plans to show 54 preseason games and eight regular-season primetime games this season.

``The commission is concerned about the impact of the dispute and potential impact of the NFL Network being removed from the new systems that Time Warner purchased in the Adelphia transaction,'' FCC Chairman Kevin Martin told reporters today at the FCC's monthly public meeting.

The FCC gave Time Warner an Aug. 15 deadline to respond to the NFL's complaint. The commission put the issue on an accelerated schedule aimed at reaching a final decision by the end of the month.

``This order was issued without offering us the opportunity to respond to the NFL Network's allegations,'' Time Warner said in a statement e-mailed from spokesman Mark Harrad. `` We believe the FCC's decision is wrong and we are considering our options.''

Contract Dispute

The FCC said Time Warner may have acted as part of a negotiating tactic.

``Based on the current record, it does not appear that Time Warner objects in principle to carrying the NFL Network,'' according to the FCC statement. ``Rather, Time Warner merely wishes to carry it on different terms than those agreed to by the relevant cable systems' prior owner.''

``We appreciate the FCC's speedy action in response to our petition,'' NFL Network spokesman Seth Palansky in Culver City, California, said in an e-mailed statement. ``We look forward to continuing discussions with Time Warner regarding long-term carriage of the NFL Network.''

Shares of New York-based Time Warner fell 10 cents to $16.57 at 1:11 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. They declined 4.4 percent this year before today.

Well, for the second time since TW took over Adelphia I had an outage. This time my internet and cable went out at 10:20 am and returned just now around 3:30 pm.

I haven't had a chance to turn on my tv so I have no idea of what has actually been restored. I just noticed the internet was back up.

Not a good start for TW.

OK, everything is up. Just checked NFL Network and nothing has changed as of yet, that message is still up there.

God, I hope putting NFL Network back on doesn't cause another outage for me. Each outage I've had this week has been longer then the one before. :)

Hmmm... with TWC NEO doing all this switching it may be time to remap and see what new freebies have popped up on the ol' QAM tuner. :)

Since I don't think the order gave them a deadline, I expect TWC to review their possible legal options before putting things back.

By the way, shouldn't this make them put ESPNU back too?


OK, everything is up. Just checked NFL Network and nothing has changed as of yet, that message is still up there.

God, I hope putting NFL Network back on doesn't cause another outage for me. Each outage I've had this week has been longer then the one before. :)

FOX 8 just announced WKYC got the Browns.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

FOX 8 was never really in the battle for the games, so it doesn't surprise me they went ahead and made it a news item. I wonder what WOIO said about it? :D

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/08/breaking-news-wkyc3-gets-browns.html

It'll be Sam Rosen, Bernie Kosar and Brian Brennan in the booth for the pre-season games.

And since we're here - I'd be surprised if the games were in HD. WKYC is indeed into HD with news and the Indians games, but they've gotta scramble to get the games on even in SD by Thursday! :D

Not a good start for TW.

I bet very little of this has to do with any changes TWC has made, and you'd probably have had the same problem when it was Adelphia. The former Adelphia system is basically intact give or take the minor channel lineup changes. It's the same equipment, for one.

Here, knock on wood, I have had no problems since early Tuesday AM. If there was an outage the other day, I slept through it.

FOX 8 was never really in the battle for the games, so it doesn't surprise me they went ahead and made it a news item. I wonder what WOIO said about it? :D



I still watch WOIO just before I go to sleep at night. :eek: :D I haven't heard them mention anything about it.

To WJW's credit when the story first broke the other day about WOIO loosing the law suit they said at that time when it's announced what station gets the Browns games they would let us know.

I bet very little of this has to do with any changes TWC has made, and you'd probably have had the same problem when it was Adelphia. The former Adelphia system is basically intact give or take the minor channel lineup changes. It's the same equipment, for one.

Here, knock on wood, I have had no problems since early Tuesday AM. If there was an outage the other day, I slept through it.

Well actually I've had 3 outages, one caused by Bainbridge workers when it was Adelphia on the 29th and the other two after TW took over.

Incidentally one of the workers told me they found out the reason for the outage yesterday was a blown transformer. I don't believe the outage today was as wide spread because they didn't have the message informing about outages at all, I was informed by a CSR - of course after first telling me they would have to send a tech out, and btw first available appointment was TUESDAY! :eek: I'm glad it was an outage, I'd have been p.o.'d no internet or TV for 5 days?

Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)

Thanks in advance!!! :)

nothing from dish network, you can check two sites,

satelliteguys.us
and also dbstalk.com

those will have info

Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)

Thanks in advance!!! :)

It seems that Cleveland has become the ugly stepchild of Dish. I wouldn't expect it until the end of the year or early next? This is frustrating for me because even though I can get a great signal from all the networks OTA I live near the airport. It all depends on the time of day and season of the year whether I get pixalation, audio dropouts or total freeze and loss of signal. I think this is multipath issues.

Dish does not give timetables for any locals, other than the most general information.

The link below is a list of Dish HD locals and the projected cities, but there are no dates given.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=54667

Remember that Dish has to sign carry agreements with each station, so that would definitely make a difference as to speed. For example, I think DirecTV still doesn't have all the local Cleveland stations in HD.




Has anyone heard a time-table on when Dish Network might be getting Cleveland HD locals available? (Yes I know I can get them with an Off-air antennae, but I don't want to install that quite yet)

Thanks in advance!!! :)

I don't believe the outage today was as wide spread because they didn't have the message informing about outages at all, I was informed by a CSR - of course after first telling me they would have to send a tech out, and btw first available appointment was TUESDAY! :eek:

Adelphia, TWC, whoever...it's still a cable company, and some things never change. :D

Remember that Dish has to sign carry agreements with each station, so that would definitely make a difference as to speed. For example, I think DirecTV still doesn't have all the local Cleveland stations in HD.

As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.

The VOD stuff now has the TWC logo on all of it. Earlier, they still had an Adelphia logo at startup.

That channel name's change was the ONLY change in a recent TiVo update, and Zap2It.com shows the same - with the new Time Warner Cable (Cleveland Heights) designation. They have not yet added C-SPAN 3, Current, WUAB-HD or The Tube to the listings in either place - they're the same data, provided by Tribune Media Services.

As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.


Correct and rumor has it thats why the holdout, WE all know how woio's company does it, all stations or no stations (wasnt that the holdout to get them on time warner??).

Correct and rumor has it thats why the holdout, WE all know how woio's company does it, all stations or no stations (wasnt that the holdout to get them on time warner??).

Except that Adelphia only ever carried WOIO in HD. It never carried either WUAB in HD or "The Tube".

Those were only added the day TWC took over this system.

But your overall point is correct. Raycom uses as much leverage as they can. I'm not sure how Adelphia ended up not taking WUAB-HD or The Tube...

adelphia was way before time warner werent they? maybe they snuck in before raycom made changes?

NFL Network is back on due to the FCC ruling

NFL Network is back on due to the FCC ruling

Heh Heh.....Big Bad Time Warner gets pushed around by the FCC. I guess it didn't to long for them to "consider their options."

Not that this may be the end of this. I'll expect them to file and try to get an injunction by 8/15. Enjoy it while you can.

adelphia was way before time warner werent they? maybe they snuck in before raycom made changes?

Nope.

WOIO-DT was added to Adelphia under Raycom's ownership. It was actually not that long ago, within the past year or so...and not long before TWC ended up adding both WOIO-DT and WUAB-DT.

Not that this may be the end of this. I'll expect them to file and try to get an injunction by 8/15. Enjoy it while you can.

It appears both of 'em are acting badly here - both NFL Network and TWC.

NFL Network wanted a new deal for the ex-Adelphia/Comcast systems, at what is a fairly high cost - 90 cents a subscriber. That's not in the $3/sub range that ESPN gets, but it's higher than most other major cable channels.

TWC says "fine, be that way, but we want to move you into a sports tier". (Of course, despite its $3/sub rate, ESPN is not ever going to be moved out of basic.)

The rest of us are going - "We had this channel on Monday, why did we lose it on Tuesday?"

The solution should be that TWC gets the same deal Adelphia and Comcast did until Tuesday - but only on the merged systems, since the deal was already in place. When that deal expires, THEN TWC and NFL Network renegotiate for the ex-Adelphia/Comcast systems.

It makes sense when you think of it, as major lineup changes aren't likely for a few months...and even then, TWC could still feed NFL Network separately.

BTW, confirming the above, NFL Network is back here as well.

TW is saying they are going to put it's viewers on a 30 day notification with a crawl on the bottom of the screen that unless they come to an agreement with the NFL it will be removed. I just turned on NFL HD and I don't see it. The crawl that is. :)

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6359461.html

The lack of a 30-day notice was one of the issues cited by the FCC.

I've noticed that I've gained TNTHD as well as 43-1. I've however, lost DTV 3, DTV 8, DTV 5, etc... I get the HD stations for these (except for 8) but I used to get the digital SD versions of them also...

It seems that Cleveland has become the ugly stepchild of Dish. I wouldn't expect it until the end of the year or early next? This is frustrating for me because even though I can get a great signal from all the networks OTA I live near the airport. It all depends on the time of day and season of the year whether I get pixalation, audio dropouts or total freeze and loss of signal. I think this is multipath issues.

The really irritating thing about it is that Cleveland is by FAR the largest market that they don't have HD locals for. For pete's sake, Indianapolis and Raleigh are getting HD Locals before us!

I got tired of the wait and went with Adelphia/TWC, which has actually been pretty satisfying, despite the "bang-for-the-buck" appeal of Dish.

I've noticed that I've gained TNTHD as well as 43-1. I've however, lost DTV 3, DTV 8, DTV 5, etc... I get the HD stations for these (except for 8) but I used to get the digital SD versions of them also...

I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?

I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.

TW is saying they are going to put it's viewers on a 30 day notification with a crawl on the bottom of the screen that unless they come to an agreement with the NFL it will be removed. I just turned on NFL HD and I don't see it. The crawl that is. :)

I have tuned into it on and off all day, mostly on the SD/digital cable side (178), and haven't seen the crawl either.

I have seen the NFL Network's own crawl at the top, telling TWC customers to call their toll-free number! But not TWC's own "we're cancelling this channel in 30 days" crawl.

I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?

I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.

Well he must be a former Adelphia customer because Time Warner in Akron have had WUAB and TNT and he just recently got them.

I have tuned into it on and off all day, mostly on the SD/digital cable side (178), and haven't seen the crawl either.

I have seen the NFL Network's own crawl at the top, telling TWC customers to call their toll-free number! But not TWC's own "we're cancelling this channel in 30 days" crawl.

On channel 125(ESPNUs old number) there is a message stating NFL Network may be removed next month.

I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?

I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.


Ex-Adelphia Lorain Branch.

On channel 125(ESPNUs old number) there is a message stating NFL Network may be removed next month.

Yes, I can confirm that and how funny! Why put the message on an obscure and now unused station? I guess it's kind of like when a class action law suit goes down, publish it in a small ad in the paper where nobody will probably look and that does the legal trick.

I haven't seen the scroll Inundated talked about from the NFL. Perhaps that's the reason TW decided not to post another scroll there.

I forget - are you on the now-former Adelphia/TWC branch, or the main TWC branch out of Akron?

I still get the digital SD simulcasts of 3/5/8/19/43 here on the now TWC-owned Adelphia system, on my Fusion USB HDTV tuner.

Same here in Solon. Just did a re-scan of my Panny and everything was there....

I haven't seen the scroll Inundated talked about from the NFL. Perhaps that's the reason TW decided not to post another scroll there.

I haven't seen the NFL Network's own scroll much, but I have seen it. They don't run it continuously.

The message on ESPNU has indeed changed to a message about the carriage of NFL Network!

I haven't seen the NFL Network's own scroll much, but I have seen it. They don't run it continuously.

The message on ESPNU has indeed changed to a message about the carriage of NFL Network!

I sent OMW an email on this several hours ago. Thanks for the credit, OMW. :rolleyes:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.

I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.

Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.

I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.

Lots of talk about it on the NBC HOF Game thread in HDTV Programming:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707813

I even have a screen shot or two from WKYC-DT demonstrating it.

Any idea what it is?

Anyone having PQ issues with Sunday Night Football? The opening of the show almost looked like it was cutting between HD and SD, but typically the change isn't as seamless as this was. Anytime they'd bring in the Decko graphics the picture would defocus. Also, the graphics in general seemed very hard to read.

I'm watching the ATSC broadcast of WKYC. It's not my typical reception issues with WKYC, that's been surprisingly strong.

Yep, got home and watched my recording of it on the SA8300HD (WOW cable). Kept going out of focus when the graphics would go in/out. The booth with Madden/Michaels was not HD. They've definitely got some teething issues to work out. I've put my bitch list over in the official NBC HOF game thread. :D

Yep, got home and watched my recording of it on the SA8300HD (WOW cable). Kept going out of focus when the graphics would go in/out. The booth with Madden/Michaels was not HD. They've definitely got some teething issues to work out. I've put my bitch list over in the official NBC HOF game thread. :D

I watched a bit of the game, but really didn't notice much. I suspect part of the problem was the origination point - Canton - where they probably don't have much imbedded infrastructure to support HD broadcasts....

I watched a bit of the game, but really didn't notice much. I suspect part of the problem was the origination point - Canton - where they probably don't have much imbedded infrastructure to support HD broadcasts....

Nah, my guess is that the issue is with WKYC's local HD encoders. There were folks on that HOF thread who were NOT seeing the issues we describe, and others in other markets who were.

Canton really doesn't have anything to do with it. They bring in the trucks no matter what...

Hey Inundated (or any other Clevelanders) - did anyone notice if Weather Plus was turned off during the HOF game (or bandwidth reduced)?

IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...

IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...

There's someone on the HOF thread who seems to think it was a simple encoder setting.

I did not check for Weather Plus during the game, but I'm sure that WKYC didn't turn it off. They may or may not have messed with the settings for it, though.

I DID see macroblocking - not really with the graphics, but in very fast moving action when they did extreme closeups. I didn't notice it otherwise...

Hey Inundated (or any other Clevelanders) - did anyone notice if Weather Plus was turned off during the HOF game (or bandwidth reduced)?

IMO, they did mess with *something* because the graphics flying in/out during the HOF game didn't have the usual horrible macroblocking NBC is famous for. I'll speculate they changed some mux setting to improve the HD PQ during the game, but that introduced the fuzz/blur problem...


Weather was on as I watched it for radar to see if maybe there was a little electricity in the air as I had breakups (alot more then usual)

Yes, I had the same focusing issues. Plus there was the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of each scene change, like the transmission was trying to catch up.
JJK

Here is the channel listing from Massillon Cable if you don't use their cable box, see attached. The listing came up when I did a scan using FusionHDTV on my HTPC. Please note that all channels starting with a 'D' are digital and most of those are HD but not all, such as Tube.

Threads merged.

Adelphia, TWC, whoever...it's still a cable company, and some things never change. :D



As far as I know, that's still the case. The world infamous WOIO/19 is the straggler here...they have 3, 5 and 8. DirecTV, as far as I know, isn't putting up UPN/WB/CW/MyNetworkTV stations yet.

Directv KINDA has Channel 3, IMO. By that I mean that the channel is suffering some big MPEG-4 growing pains (As is STO-HD) with a stuttering picture every scene looking like its in slo-mo, etc. 5 and 8 have not exhibited any probs however and your right no 19/43, 25 or 55 yet.

Directv KINDA has Channel 3, IMO. By that I mean that the channel is suffering some big MPEG-4 growing pains (As is STO-HD) with a stuttering picture every scene looking like its in slo-mo, etc. 5 and 8 have not exhibited any probs however and your right no 19/43, 25 or 55 yet.

Cleveland's not the only market that has had this problem...I seem to remember reading some folks in Boston that have similar complaints.

Maybe it's a 1080i thing, as 5 and 8 are 720p?

First off, my apologies if this has been covered recently. I went back three pages, and didn't see any talk of it.

Any news on WBNX going HD in time for the launch of The CW? I know their original plan was to go HD sometime between July and September on ch. 30, is that still the plan (the website still says it, but I was wondering if there was any news elsewhere)?

Thanks!

Any news on WBNX going HD in time for the launch of The CW? I know their original plan was to go HD sometime between July and September on ch. 30, is that still the plan (the website still says it, but I was wondering if there was any news elsewhere)?

You didn't see anything on it since there's no news. :(

The only thing that's happened recently is that they've updated both "hoped for" dates on the Trends page to September, even though the rest of the information around it is entirely incorrect...for one, the CP has officially been issued, as we posted here ages ago.

I keep scanning and I haven't seen any indication that WBNX-DT is up yet. If they're hoping to be on before the CW starts up, they have about 5 weeks and change to do it...

You didn't see anything on it since there's no news. :(

The only thing that's happened recently is that they've updated both "hoped for" dates on the Trends page to September, even though the rest of the information around it is entirely incorrect...for one, the CP has officially been issued, as we posted here ages ago.

I keep scanning and I haven't seen any indication that WBNX-DT is up yet. If they're hoping to be on before the CW starts up, they have about 5 weeks and change to do it...
One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here :)

One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here :)

Do you know which one is WBNX's?

:D

One of the issues keeping WBNX-DT off the air was an antenna upgrade. Since I can see the antenna farm out my back window, I think I'll pull out my binoculars to see if there is any work being done on their tower. If I see anything I'll post it here :)

wow, talk about inside information.... ^_^ good goin' Michael.

Now that WBNX knows we're watching, maybe they'll get things moving. It'd be nice to have another HD channel in the uhf range.

Do you know which one is WBNX's?

:DAs a matter of fact I do! From the POV of my back yard WBNX and WOIO are so close together they almost touch each other. WBNX is the one to the left (west). Ironically from Ridgewood Drive WQHS and WBNX share the same access road (CYO Camp Corde'), while WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (the brand new Metropark reservation which used to be the Parma City dump).

As a matter of fact I do! From the POV of my back yard WBNX and WOIO are so close together they almost touch each other. WBNX is the one to the left (west). Ironically from Ridgewood Drive WQHS and WBNX share the same access road (CYO Camp Corde'), while WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (the brand new Metropark reservation which used to be the Parma City dump).

Here's a pic of the site from a few years ago (summer 2000), when WBNX was still just going up...

http://www.fybush.com/Tower%20Site/040212/wkyc-twr.jpg

It looks like WBNX is the second tower on the left, and WOIO is the tallest one on the right side.

And here's the narrative on it:

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2004/site-040212.html

ex-Adelphia customers: Does it seem like HD PQ has gotten worse since Adelphia became Time Warner? I was watching DiscoveryHD and I swear there are what looks like compression artifacts in the picture where from the past month or so I've had my set, I remember DiscoveryHD having a very nice picture without this problem. Also, during the Eagles-Raiders NFL preseason opener, my eyes were going batty because the picture would go from sharp and clear to soft/fuzzy and back. Over and over again for the entire game. It bugged me so much I was going to watch it in analog SD, but then the picture looked really crappy and had to turn it back... Seems like the analog stations look much worse, also. I found them very much watchable two weeks ago, now they are all horrible looking. On the digital HD stations, I'm starting to notice what looks like combing artifacts which I don't remember being apparent before.

ex-Adelphia customers: Does it seem like HD PQ has gotten worse since Adelphia became Time Warner?

Impossible. Nothing has really changes. People are the same. Equipment is the same. I've noticed no differences in pq.

Also, during the Eagles-Raiders NFL preseason opener, my eyes were going batty because the picture would go from sharp and clear to soft/fuzzy and back. Over and over again for the entire game. It bugged me so much I was going to watch it in analog SD, but then the picture looked really crappy and had to turn it back..

Discussed extensively in this forum and others. This was not limited to our area or Adelphia. Take a look back a page or so in this forum.


Seems like the analog stations look much worse, also. I found them very much watchable two weeks ago, now they are all horrible looking. On the digital HD stations, I'm starting to notice what looks like combing artifacts which I don't remember being apparent before.

Same answer as to the first part of your question. Everything I see in analog looks about the same. I hardly watch anything live so I see it on my SA 8300. As a matter of fact I first thought the picture looked better. :) I was very happy to see Adelphia go. But the reality is all that has changed is the name.....for now.

Thanks.

TWC did squeeze in two more HD channels - WUAB-DT and TNT-HD - a week ago Tuesday.

But I haven't seen any difference in PQ here, either here or upstairs. It's somewhat likely that they already had the bandwidth for both...it would only require one "full" QAM channel, as you can squeeze two 1080i feeds on one QAM256 channel.

The equipment is otherwise the same, and basically, only the name they answer the phone with has been changed for now.

Brian, if you're seeing something different, maybe there are problems unrelated to (but coincidental with) the merger date.

Impossible. Nothing has really changes. People are the same. Equipment is the same. I've noticed no differences in pq.

I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
http://www.stophdlite.com/

I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
http://www.stophdlite.com/


Sigh.....that goes along with what MAY change. It just isn't going to change that much in one week. Being "accused" of something on the internet doesn't make it real.

You know I am probably the most skeptical person in the world when it comes to cable. I realize they are what they are, and TW may not be any better then Adelphia, but I have to believe if there was a way to save money or produce more by cutting bit rate Adelphia would have done it long before TW.

Somtimes you just have to be a bit realistic. There is only so much one can do in the first week of taking over a big huge cable area.

I have not noticed any degradation of Picture Quality but I do think the audio has improved! I know, I'm probably crazy, but just maybe someone has looked over the way they have their board phased and I think the stereo image has actually become more defined. Except on WVIZ where their Legends of Jazz program (why would someone actually make any effort on a program dedicated to music) was completely out of phase the other night. Audio is even more subjective than video (psychoacoustic effects and all) and it is so varied between what is program material and what is commercials; but it's possible. Almost anything is possible. I did love it that everyone noticed the fuzz box on the football game the other night, you could anticipate every upcoming switcher cue.

I have not noticed any degradation of Picture Quality but I do think the audio has improved!

I heard audio improvementx too, but I don't believe my ears. :)

I noticed it big time when they showed a Tribe game on WKYC channel 3. Rear speaker audio was much more pronounced.

But again being realistic, or at least trying to be I'm not willing to put money on that statement.

Does anyone who lives in the Medina area have armstrong because I am thinking of switching.
Hello,

I do live in Medina and have had Armstrong HDTV for about a year. I did have them for the zoom cable modem previous to the tv portion, but with a new HDTV and Dishnetwork asking $$$$ for the HD PVR, I switched to Armstrong.

Armstrong offers the following channels in HD
103 WKYC NBC CLEVELAND, OH
104 WOIO 19 CBS - CLEVELAND, OH
105 WEWS ABC CLEVELAND, OH
108 WJW FOX CLEVELAND, OH
120 TNT HD
121 WEALTHTV HD
125 WVIZ PBS - CLEVELAND, OH (Acually a Network feed not WVIZ)
177 & 178 - Fox Sports Channel HD
180 NFL NETWORK HD
185 ESPN HD (HD ADVANTAGE) *
186 HDNET (HD ADVANTAGE) *
187 HDNET MOVIES (HD ADVANTAGE) *
188 UNIVERSAL HD (HD ADVANTAGE)
190 SHOWTIME HDTV*
198 CINEMAX HDTV *
199 HBO HDTV*

The * channels are subscription ones. You can get ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET Movies for $3 a month. The rest of the HDs are included in your basic cable subscription and my Samsung HLR5067W will pull them down as channels 106-1, 106-2 and 107-1 and 107-2 for Channels 3, 5, 8 and 19 respectively. There are other channels that are broadcasted in HD as well that you can get with just an HD tuner. Some on them are on their digital subscription package like toon disney and some are the actual HD channels like universal HD.

I do subscribe to their digital package and also lease a Motorola 6412 V 3 PVR from them. The PVR fee is $6 a month and that leases the box as well. You can record about 12 hours of HD, and about 100 hrs of standard definition. It is a ok box, the worst part of it is no 30 second skip forward (and I have tried with different remotes, it is software blocked). Also note that the Moto box does clean up the analog ch 2 - 73 rather well and it looks acceptable on my 50" screen. The digital portion 400 - 600 look good. If you view them on the built in tuner, the analog channels don't look as good (a bit grainy on a 50" screen, but location does matter, I am off of Guilford in Ryan Land). About 3 months ago it seemed that Armstrong was upgrading the software on the PVR about every day and with each fix there was a problem. They did credit everyone for that time and it seems that those probems are in the past. The greatest feature on the Moto box is that you can record 2 HDTV channels at the same time and watch a prerecorded HD program all at the same time. It doesn't miss a beat.

The HD quality is superb. I have a channelmaster attena in my attic and I can pull 5, 8, 19 no problem and when comparing the picture to the Armstrong Moto box, the picture is the same, I can't tell a difference in quality. TNDHD is very good as well as Universal HD. You will see that some people complain about DirecTV's HD quality varying, but Armstrongs is right on.

I just have one cable coming in giving me 5mbps internet (and powering my VOIP line), 3 analog TV's, and my HDTV.

I would give it a go. Look online, there is always some promotion at www.armstrongonewire.com . I used the 6 months free basic promotion so all you have to pay for is the PVR fee and digitital service fee.

125 WVIZ PBS - CLEVELAND, OH (Acually a Network feed not WVIZ) If, by a "network feed" you mean "PBS HD", that is what WVIZ is broadcasting in HD from WVIZ-HD 25.1. Unlike WEAO, WVIZ does not broadcast a digital version of their analog channel, so the program schedule is quite different. You shuld see a WVIZ "bug" in the lower right-hand corner. The ability to add that bug (as well as the ability to break out into a local origination I.D. in HD) is part of what is keeping WNEO/WEAO from carrying PBS HD.

It's a fine mess we are in here in NE Ohio. The one PBS affilliate that can carry PBS HD does so on a 1 kw transmitter 99' tower. The other, a dual location, full-power ASTC signal, does not have the equipment to meet the specifications of PBS HD (i.e. to add the local inserts)

[QUOTE=Inundated]Oh, so they must be airing it as a QAM channel at least now. That might mean it's not ready for "prime time" and they still need to work on it before releasing it.

(Adelphia did the same here with Fox Sports Net Ohio's HD Cavs telecasts earlier this year.)

STO's new website still only lists the analog games on Massillon Cable 11:

Massillon Cable's website says the same, and does not yet list STO in HD:

[quote]


Ok. This is my first post here so don't flame me if these questions are obvious. I just moved to Canal Fulton from Warren Ohio and have no cable provider other than Massillon Cable. Previously I had Time Warner and had STO in HD. Massillon doesn't offer this in HD....but this post got my attention.

1. What is a QAM channel and how do I tune it in?
2. How do you tune a HD Cable box to 82.2?

When I tried to input channel 82 it just flashed ??? at me.

Help a brother out and hook me up with some HD Tribe action if you can.....

So far my experience with Massillon Cable has me wondering if they are really compressing the heck out of everything because I see tons of artifacts on SD channels up and down the dial.......my 45" LCD didn't look this bad with Time Warner on the SD channels.

Thanks!

1. What is a QAM channel and how do I tune it in?

Simply put QAM is the method in which ATSC programing is transmitted across cable lines. You must have a ATSC tuner with QAM "decoding" capabilities to tune in these channels (unless you have a cable box and the QAM program is assigned a channel number).

2. How do you tune a HD Cable box to 82.2?

You don't. The 82.2 channel must be assigned a cable box channel before you can tune to it with the cable box.

Does your HDTV have a built in ATSC tuner? Does it have a cable card slot? If you answered yes to these two questions you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way. If your HDTV doesn't have a built in ATSC tuner with QAM capabilities you may want to invest in a external tuner.

I wouldn't say "impossible". Brian81 might be on to something - TWC has been accused of reducing bitrates on their HD channels in "select cities" whatever that means:
http://www.stophdlite.com/

I don't put a lot of stock in that site.

It's registered anonymously, and from the use of the phrase "HD Lite", it's probably run by a fellow AVS Forum member...probably someone who uses the term incessantly over in the HDTV Programming threads.

The site is actually not badly designed, but it contains a lot of typos, and a lot of inappropriate use of capital letters.

I give it about the same credibility as another message here.

As I mentioned, the only POSSIBLE change right now is the addition of the two HD channels (WUAB/TNT) by TWC a week ago Tuesday. But I am sure they have the bandwidth. As a matter of fact, by spiking the NFL Network HD feed alone they probably do...

I give it about the same credibility as another message here.


Actually I give it even less. There are certain folks who I pretty much take teir word as gospel around here. Inundated would be one of them. There are others. But there are alot of websites that are ridiculous. I saw one in another forum I visit for Vonage where someone posted a link saying for a site that was claiming paypal as a rip off.

Hey everyone.

I live in Lakewood and I'm brand new. As shiny new to this as one can be. We just picked up an OTA receiver and antenna last night. I'm pretty tech savvy with computers and whatnot, but I'll be the first to admit that setting up HD is kind of daunting. I hope you all don't mind me posting in this thread, but I figured I'd try and get some local advice before making a dedicated post.

I'm sure all you hardcore HDers will simply snicker at our equipment, but we're naive newcomers. :) Our tuner is a Samsung SIR-T351 and the antenna is a Philips MANT510 indoor setup right on top of the tv.

Unfortunately I didn't get much time to play with everything last night as it was pretty late once everything was hooked up. With minimal amount of messing with the setup, we got channels 3 (NBC) and 5 (ABC), but no FOX or CBS. This might all change once I get into the menus and play around with things. The only major obstruction is a 4 story apartment building next to us. Everything else is typical neighborhood fair, two story houses.

So basically I thought I would post quick while at work and ask for any advice for when I go home tonight and work on getting the other channels to come in.

Thanks for any help you can provide!
-Sean
sean.campbell@thegrounds.us

Actually I give it even less. There are certain folks who I pretty much take teir word as gospel around here. Inundated would be one of them. There are others. But there are alot of websites that are ridiculous. I saw one in another forum I visit for Vonage where someone posted a link saying for a site that was claiming paypal as a rip off.

Why, thank you. :D

The point I was making is that the site is probably put up by a regular poster here, and I don't believe it has any scientific or technical background.

The fact that the person registered it anonymously takes away a few points, too.

If the guy would put up his qualifications, that'd be another matter. It just seems to be the equivalent of posting a bunch of messages trying to get people to agree with you.

Trying to get decent HD reception with an indoor antenna is kinda like trying to race a Corvette on kerosene! HD signals not only need adequate signal strength, but multipath (ghosting you would see on analog signals) and interference from Detroit, London and other cities across the lake wreck havoc with digital signals. If you want to really enjoy your new "toy", I'd suggest a good rooftop antenna or else cable/dish.

And if your computer literate you can install the MY-HD 130 card for the tuner and recording functions but you still need a good antenna and rotor.
JJK

Simply put QAM is the method in which ATSC programing is transmitted across cable lines. You must have a ATSC tuner with QAM "decoding" capabilities to tune in these channels (unless you have a cable box and the QAM program is assigned a channel number).

You don't. The 82.2 channel must be assigned a cable box channel before you can tune to it with the cable box.

Does your HDTV have a built in ATSC tuner? Does it have a cable card slot? If you answered yes to these two questions you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way. If your HDTV doesn't have a built in ATSC tuner with QAM capabilities you may want to invest in a external tuner.

My television does indeed have a built-in ATSC tuner and a cable card slot. So what do I do next? I am guessing that if I call Massillon Cable and ask about getting a cable card they are likely to say "what's that?".

Sorry to repeat the question but is there anyone else on this Cleveland thread using Massilon cable and what are your opinions? I got home from work tonight and the SD channels looked so compressed it isn't funny. I mean, I am used to SD stations looking a little weak on my HD set but this is ridiculous.....it looks like I downloaded a web video.....and not the h.264 variety.

Thanks.....was thinking of going to Direct TV but have been reading that the HD PQ isn't too hot there either. Damn....I miss Time Warner already and it's only been 3 days!

Peace!

My television does indeed have a built-in ATSC tuner and a cable card slot. So what do I do next?

Like I said:
you should be able to run a channel scan with the cable connected directly to your HDTV and find the 82.2 channel this way.

So, once you have completed a channel scan, then use your remote to tune in 82.2.

Like I said:


So, once you have completed a channel scan, then use your remote to tune in 82.2.

Your original message was not 100% clear as to wether I required a cable card in tandem with the ATSC tuner. Now that I know that the cable card should not be required I will run a can of the channels from the Television itself.....

Thanks!

Will the Browns Pre-season game on WKYC tonight be in HD?

Will the Browns Pre-season game on WKYC tonight be in HD?

No it will be regular SD, although much better than WOIO's 1970's picture quality broadcast.

I don't put a lot of stock in that site.

It's registered anonymously, and from the use of the phrase "HD Lite", it's probably run by a fellow AVS Forum member...probably someone who uses the term incessantly over in the HDTV Programming threads.

The site is actually not badly designed, but it contains a lot of typos, and a lot of inappropriate use of capital letters.

I give it about the same credibility as another message here.

As I mentioned, the only POSSIBLE change right now is the addition of the two HD channels (WUAB/TNT) by TWC a week ago Tuesday. But I am sure they have the bandwidth. As a matter of fact, by spiking the NFL Network HD feed alone they probably do...

Run by a moderator of satelliteguys.us, whos handle is goaliebob99, great guy. I personally have never spent too much time at the site though.

I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found". So I am guessing I need a cable card to hook into the digital channels on Massillon cable?

Can ayone who is using Massillon Cable and accessing STO HD on 82.2 tell me how to get it? Really missing HD Tribe baseball so far.

Thanks!

Not specifically related to Cleveland, but...

Dish Network has begun testing inHD. No idea when or if it will ever be made available to the public, but if so, it will definitely continue their great HD content. Food Network HD should be availably shortly too.

Here's a link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61736

Now if we could get the locals, it might force local cable companies to work a little faster to add HD content...

I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found". So I am guessing I need a cable card to hook into the digital channels on Massillon cable?

Can ayone who is using Massillon Cable and accessing STO HD on 82.2 tell me how to get it? Really missing HD Tribe baseball so far.

Thanks!

I beleive all cable companies are required by law to pass the digital version of your over the air local stations unencrypted "in-the-clear" on a digital cable QAM channel for you. Call Massillon cable and complain. You should at least get the major networks, CBS, FOX, NBC, ABC.

I don't know if they are obligated to give you STOHD "in-the-clear" You might have to get a cablecard for that.

Tell us what make/model TV you have, others might be able to give you some tips.

Will the Colts-Rams game on Fox tonight be broadcast in HD ? Does anyone know if any of the Yougstown stations will broadcast the Browns game tonight?

I tried running a scan from my TV and it only picks out the standard cable signals.....channels 1-78. When it goes to scan the digital channels it says "no digital broadcast found".

It seems pretty unlikely that your cable co doesn't have digital cable programing. It has been my experience that my TV finds even the encrypted channels offered by my cable co (I can't see anything but a black screen, but the channel is there). So I would expect yours to do something similar instead of returning "No digital broadcast found." Does it even seem like it's scanning for digital channels?

Who makes your HDTV and what is the model number?

It seems more likely that you have your cables connected incorrectly. I seem to remember going through a similar problem with another user that had a completely seperate "digital cable" connection on their HDTV. So the manufacturer supplied a cable splitter with the HDTV so you would run one into the analog connection and the other to the digital connection.

Hey everyone.

I live in Lakewood and I'm brand new. As shiny new to this as one can be. We just picked up an OTA receiver and antenna last night. I'm pretty tech savvy with computers and whatnot, but I'll be the first to admit that setting up HD is kind of daunting. I hope you all don't mind me posting in this thread, but I figured I'd try and get some local advice before making a dedicated post.

I'm sure all you hardcore HDers will simply snicker at our equipment, but we're naive newcomers. Our tuner is a Samsung SIR-T351 and the antenna is a Philips MANT510 indoor setup right on top of the tv.

Unfortunately I didn't get much time to play with everything last night as it was pretty late once everything was hooked up. With minimal amount of messing with the setup, we got channels 3 (NBC) and 5 (ABC), but no FOX or CBS. This might all change once I get into the menus and play around with things. The only major obstruction is a 4 story apartment building next to us. Everything else is typical neighborhood fair, two story houses.

So basically I thought I would post quick while at work and ask for any advice for when I go home tonight and work on getting the other channels to come in.

Thanks for any help you can provide!
-Sean
sean.campbell@thegrounds.us
If you must use an indoor antenna, be sure you can aim it out a window facing the transmitters, especially if your home has aluminum siding.

Trying to get decent HD reception with an indoor antenna is kinda like trying to race a Corvette on kerosene! HD signals not only need adequate signal strength, but multipath (ghosting you would see on analog signals) and interference from Detroit, London and other cities across the lake wreck havoc with digital signals. If you want to really enjoy your new "toy", I'd suggest a good rooftop antenna or else cable/dish.
I agree. Additionally, Lakewood is possibly one of the worst locations in the Greater Cleveland area to get OTA signals. As a hobby, I used to install Dish Network satellite dishes for friends. Back in those days if you wanted local TV stations you had to get tem OTA (or lie about your location to E* in order to get NYC and/or LA network stations). I had a heck of a time trying to get a decent picture OTA. Between the terrain, nearby buildings, and low flying aircraft from Hopkins, the reception was awful! As close as Lakewood is to the Parma antenna farm you would think that their reception would be better. Lakewood has a better shot at Toledo and Detroit stations then they do for Cleveland :p

These reception issues are compounded in digital. While in analog you could still see a picture, in digital you either get a perfect picture or nothing at all (or you get pixillated garbage if you are sitting right on the threshhold).

Will the Colts-Rams game on Fox tonight be broadcast in HD ? Does anyone know if any of the Yougstown stations will broadcast the Browns game tonight?

According to the guide here, Colts-Rams game will be HD:
http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nfl.php

This will be the first Fox HD football game since they added more bandwidth to their satellite distribution system a couple weeks ago. Hopefully the PQ will be better than last year!

It seems pretty unlikely that your cable co doesn't have digital cable programing. It has been my experience that my TV finds even the encrypted channels offered by my cable co (I can't see anything but a black screen, but the channel is there). So I would expect yours to do something similar instead of returning "No digital broadcast found." Does it even seem like it's scanning for digital channels?

Who makes your HDTV and what is the model number?

It seems more likely that you have your cables connected incorrectly. I seem to remember going through a similar problem with another user that had a completely seperate "digital cable" connection on their HDTV. So the manufacturer supplied a cable splitter with the HDTV so you would run one into the analog connection and the other to the digital connection.

I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital. When I go to scan channels it lets me check these three options:

Scan Analog A
Scan Analog B
Scan Digital Channels

It scans each and every number for the first 2 but chokes on the Digital option before it even attempts to scan it. So far I have only hooked the cable wire up to the A input.....even thought it clearly states "analog" on the label.

When I had time warner and a different HD tv I hooked up to the cable wire and was able to get digital HD channels that were not even listed by them. So I guess it should work....just need to figure out the trick.....unless that means that I need a cable card.

Thanks in advance for any other help.

icicle:
The digital input may be for OTA digital. Look in your instruction manual to see if there is an ASTC/QAM switch. If you have cable it needs to be set to QAM. The fact that it "chokes" tells me it's looking for ASTC only and not QAM.

A little research guys. No I'm not talking about how to find channels or how to use equipment, aim antennas. I'm talking about finding out if a show is broadcast in HD.

There are many places to find this out. Find them (Google is your friend) and bookmark them. Another good one is www.zap2it.com. TVguide.com. Paule123 gave one of them.

Sorry for the rant. Don't know why that bothers me. I feel better now. :)

I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital. When I go to scan channels it lets me check these three options:

Scan Analog A
Scan Analog B
Scan Digital Channels

It scans each and every number for the first 2 but chokes on the Digital option before it even attempts to scan it. So far I have only hooked the cable wire up to the A input.....even thought it clearly states "analog" on the label.

When I had time warner and a different HD tv I hooked up to the cable wire and was able to get digital HD channels that were not even listed by them. So I guess it should work....just need to figure out the trick.....unless that means that I need a cable card.

Thanks in advance for any other help.

Your manual, page 15 (page 16 in the Adobe reader), shows a DIGITAL coax input next to the cablecard slot:
http://www.sharpusa.com/files/tel_man_LC45GD4U.pdf

I can see why you're confused - you've got 4 coax jacks on that TV - 2 analog ins, 1 analog out, and a digital in. Never seen such a thing - wow!

I have a Sharp Aquos LC-45GD4U. There are 2 analog coax inputs on the back of the television, labeled A and B. I cannot find any inputs labeled digital.

I have reviewed your owners manual (http://www.sharpusa.com/files/tel_man_LC45GD4U.pdf) and found that there is indeed a digital in terminal located by your cable card and i.Link terminals. If you connect your cable to this input you should be able to scan for digital channels. Your manual leads me to believe you need a cable card to get the digital cable channels, but I bet you don't and you might get lucky if you try a few different settings.

The Browns game is definitely not in HD, unless WKYC has a huge surprise for everyone tonight. As noted, it will likely look at least 5 times better in SD than WOIO's effort, even with stretch-o-vision. (I'll just squish it down to 4:3 on my Fusion card.)

I still remember how brutal WOIO's pre-season Browns games looked last year, what, with the stutter-stepping upconvert from the analog picture.

WYTV/33's website says they're airing the Browns game in Youngstown tonight.

Oh, and it looks like WEWS will become the next HD newscast in town, making three out of four...

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/08/two-wews-items.html

A little research guys. No I'm not talking about how to find channels or how to use equipment, aim antennas. I'm talking about finding out if a show is broadcast in HD.

There are many places to find this out. Find them (Google is your friend) and bookmark them. Another good one is www.zap2it.com. TVguide.com. Paule123 gave one of them.
TVguide.com recently stopped identifying programs as being in HD, at least for my cable system. Yahoo TV does a decent job of identifying HD programs as such. I don't know why the companies that generate the EPGs for the various cable and satellite companies can't simply mark HD programs in the guide. When I had Voom DBS, the EPG showed which programs were in HD, although it wasn't always 100% accurate.

TVguide.com recently stopped identifying programs as being in HD, at least for my cable system. Yahoo TV does a decent job of identifying HD programs as such. I don't know why the companies that generate the EPGs for the various cable and satellite companies can't simply mark HD programs in the guide. When I had Voom DBS, the EPG showed which programs were in HD, although it wasn't always 100% accurate.

Time Warner (Adelphia) does ID shows on their guide as HD but sometimes they are wrong. Same goes for Zap2it.com. You are correct, TVguide.com no longer does (strange). www.titantv.com does.

TitanTV is at best flaky when it comes to identifying HD programming correctly. Zap2It (which uses the Tribune Media Services data that TiVo does) is actually more accurate, though I don't think even it is 100%.

I don't know where TWC/ex-Adelphia/whoever gets their data from.

The other problem that's popped up, though this is not HD related: TMS/Zap2It/TiVo now thinks we get the Cincinnati feed of FSN Ohio. It lists Reds games, which obviously do not air here.

The Browns game is definitely not in HD, unless WKYC has a huge surprise for everyone tonight. As noted, it will likely look at least 5 times better in SD than WOIO's effort, even with stretch-o-vision. (I'll just squish it down to 4:3 on my Fusion card.)
But will it go snap, crackle, pop as I watch?

Has the sound issue been fixed yet? It was still bad last night.

But will it go snap, crackle, pop as I watch?

Has the sound issue been fixed yet? It was still bad last night.

I've been watching 3 since the 6 PM newscast, and I've not noticed any sound problems...either with the local news in HD, or with NBC's newscast in upconverted SD. Of course, I am only listening on computer speakers, and not on a 5.1 system.

I heard the crackling you talk about on the Olympics, but haven't heard it recently.

Speaking of incorrect guide data, my D* box says there's supposed to be this Browns pre-game show on Channel 19 right now. Gee I wonder what happened to it ??? ROTFLMAO.

Oddly enough, my TiVo data has accounted for the switch to WKYC.

I'm surprised that WOIO didn't do a show anyway, with a half-hour of Sharon Reed wearing low-cut tops.

Actually this isn't new. I know in the past, if the Indians weren't playing a night game, the guide listing on Adelphia often had a Reds game listed (which of course, wasn't shown).


The other problem that's popped up, though this is not HD related: TMS/Zap2It/TiVo now thinks we get the Cincinnati feed of FSN Ohio. It lists Reds games, which obviously do not air here.

Just started watching the Browns game. It looks okay I guess. Better than the Dish feed no doubt.

The Fox game looks excellent though, from the little I've watched. Except the bug seems to be screwing with the top of the screen and I do notice some shots aren't as sharp as others.

I agree. Additionally, Lakewood is possibly one of the worst locations in the Greater Cleveland area to get OTA signals.

Good thing I read that after setting everything up or I might have given up! I'm picking up NBC and ABC great, CBS with some interference intermittently, and FOX varying from great to unwatchable. The frustrating part is how the quality changes on a day to day, hour to hour basis.

No luck getting PBS, WB, or UPN. Besides a small amount of PBS, we don't consider this much of a loss.

It seems that shifting the antenna a foot in each direction fixes the Fox problem, and wow, this football game on right now looks great!

I wish we could have Bernie as an analyst all season. He doesn't sugar coat the Browns play calling. The regular network hacks sugar coat everything and don't say anything bad about anything.

I wish we could have Bernie as an analyst all season. He doesn't sugar coat the Browns play calling. The regular network hacks sugar coat everything and don't say anything bad about anything.

I liked his candor, too. But keep the pics of him and political hacks off the damn telecast... I have to see enough of that at 6 and 11. :rolleyes:

I liked his candor, too. But keep the pics of him and political hacks off the damn telecast... I have to see enough of that at 6 and 11. :rolleyes:

Bernie should know better than to be pictured with Bush and Blackwell in Cuyahoga county, LOL !

You can't make this sh*t up: I just flipped past the infamous channel 19 news and there was Denise Dufala calling in from New York complaining that she would have to throw away $100 in cosmetics and hair products in order to get on the plane to Cleveland. :rolleyes:

Bernie's insight on what is happening on the field is far beyond most viewers to comprehend and really shows up the coaching flaws and for that reason he probably will be cast aside.
JJK

Bernie has always been something of a "mush-mouth," and though he still needs to work on his consonants a bit, last night he was more intelligible than I've ever heard him.

Regarding what he said, I thought he was the most revealing, most honest color man I've ever heard. I actually learned something about the game from him. And his criticisms were refreshingly honest and accurate. I thought he did a fabulous job, and was considerably better than I expected (perhaps because I wasn't expecting much).

Just started watching the Browns game. It looks okay I guess. Better than the Dish feed no doubt.

The Fox game looks excellent though, from the little I've watched. Except the bug seems to be screwing with the top of the screen and I do notice some shots aren't as sharp as others.

Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!

Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.

I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!

I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?

I've been watching 3 since the 6 PM newscast, and I've not noticed any sound problems...either with the local news in HD, or with NBC's newscast in upconverted SD. Of course, I am only listening on computer speakers, and not on a 5.1 system.

I heard the crackling you talk about on the Olympics, but haven't heard it recently.
It was worst during the special scrimmage they had at Browns stadium... haven't heard it since.

Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!

Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.

I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!

I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?

Are you watching it on the digital channel or analog feed? If your watching on the analog feed then try watching on your hd/digital channel, you should see a great deal of improvement even if it's stretched.

But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.


This is the problem many of us have once we get HDTVs. SD just generally looks like crap on a digital display. I bought an expensive scaler (iScan Ultra) a couple years ago in a desperate attempt to improve the picture quality on Browns SD games, and it really didn't make much difference. The men on the 50 yard line shot are still fuzzy little pieces of crap. Unfortunately we're stuck with CBS's limitations for the regular season and won't get many Browns games in HD.

Unfortunately we're stuck with CBS's limitations for the regular season and won't get many Browns games in HD.

After last night that might be a blessing. :D

Are you watching it on the digital channel or analog feed? If your watching on the analog feed then try watching on your hd/digital channel, you should see a great deal of improvement even if it's stretched.

I checked both channels. The HD/DIgital version only looked marginally better than the SD version. However the SD version wasn't stretched. Why does WKYC stretch everything on it's HD channel even when it is obviously 4:3 image? IS this how bad browns games are going to look on CBS too?? Yuck.....

By the way....I hooked the cable up to my old HDTV and did a scan of the digital channels and could not find STO HD at 82.2 . The game was being broadcast at that time. So even if I jumpt through hoops to get my main TV accepting digital channels I still can't find the one I am looking for. So why bother....

So is it safe to assume that I should not look into Direct TV or DIsh Network for a better qulaity picture?

Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!
Well the Browns game wasn't in HD. It was decent quality for an upconvert, and much better than last year. It looked just a little bit better than the regular SD feed through Dish, but not by much.

I was watching OTA. FOX looked great, I agree there. Really nice picture.

So is it safe to assume that I should not look into Direct TV or DIsh Network for a better qulaity picture?

DirecTV or Dish, generally speaking are not going to give you a better HD picture unless your cable company really really sucks. In fact there's a bunch of people going nuts over in a Dish thread right now because Dish just downrezzed HDNet Movies in order to add another HD channel on the same satellite transponder.

I'm confused - did you hook up the digital coax input to the Sharp TV and find your digital HD channels ?

Anyone know if WFMJ (21.1) out of Youngstown is going to carry Browns games in HD this season? Since they are so close to PA I wasn't sure if they would carry Browns or Steelers.

We live in Tallmadge and get 21.1 AMAZINGLY with just rabbit ears in our house!!!

Hello I'm new here and looking for a little help. What is the best antenna to use for my situation. my zip code is 44255 so i'm like halfway between Cleveland and Youngstown and I would like to get both. right now I have a 20 year old antenna and I can only get 5.1,19.1 and21.1. All the other channels I don't even get any signal at all. Thanks in advance.

Anyone know if WFMJ (21.1) out of Youngstown is going to carry Browns games in HD this season? Since they are so close to PA I wasn't sure if they would carry Browns or Steelers.

We live in Tallmadge and get 21.1 AMAZINGLY with just rabbit ears in our house!!!

Only if Cleveland plays on Sunday Night Football on NBC.

Hello I'm new here and looking for a little help. What is the best antenna to use for my situation. my zip code is 44255 so i'm like halfway between Cleveland and Youngstown and I would like to get both. right now I have a 20 year old antenna and I can only get 5.1,19.1 and21.1. All the other channels I don't even get any signal at all. Thanks in advance.

http://www.checkhd.com/aw/welcome.aspx

Anyone have TNTHD (779) being displayed on HDBON (798) now? I get a black screen on 779 instead of TNT, but then TNT is showing on the "HD Bonus" channel number...

BTW, I redid an auto program for channels and I'm able to receive the digital SD stations again.

Anyone have TNTHD (779) being displayed on HDBON (798) now? I get a black screen on 779 instead of TNT, but then TNT is showing on the "HD Bonus" channel number...

Not on my SA 8300. As of 5:42 this evening, everything on those channels is as it should be.

Not on my SA 8300. As of 5:42 this evening, everything on those channels is as it should be.


Maybe it was fixed, then. Guess I shouldn't have put "now" in my post. I noticed this last night from probably 9pm til 1am. Haven't yet turned the set on today. Thought there might be an Indians game on, and it was TNT! :)

anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.

anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.
I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!

I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!

:D :D :D :D

I would rather take option C which is watching grass grow. Indians suck and Nascar is even worse!

Thanks for all your help, I really feel like you contributed to my question and I now know the answer to what I was asking.

Thanks for all your help, I really feel like you contributed to my question and I now know the answer to what I was asking.

You know this really goes to what I was saying the other day about people not really wanting to do a little research - and you get upset because he made a humorous (in my opinion) remark.

So since you didn't think he was funny I went to www.zap2it.com for you and looked up what was happening. There will be no Nascar, just Indians baseball. Finding out this info wasn't difficult.

Oh, you can watch some Indy racing on WEWS after the Tribe game if you want but it won't be in HD. The NFL network is having a preseason game also, the Titans at New Orleans. There will be beach volleyball after the Tribe game on WKYC.in HD.

I don't know if the NFL Network game is in HD. Please don't be upset because I couldn't research it further for you. I hope I gave you enough to plan your Sunday viewing. :rolleyes:

Thank you Hookbill, I went to titantv, and it did show Indians, but my confusion is this, NASCAR is a National contract, Inidans are local, I would be under the impression WKYC would have to broadcast NASCAR, as the indians have their own channel (STO) and NASCAR just wont be shown in cleveland, which sucks for those of us that like nascar (I know their are few, but i dont make fun of you for not enjoying it, or enjoying the browns). Also thanks for helping me out, I was just hoping there was someone with insight on cleveland locals who would know, or at least I was hoping that they would work out something like put the indians on the analog NBC, and HIGH DEF STO, and put NASCAR on Digital NBC or something like that/

edit: also I am getting ready to get my neighbor hooked up on a antenna, he saw my OTA and that I was getting WKBN, and just the overall quality of it, and wants it now (he has a sony plasma with a I would suppose 4th gen OTA tuner) anyways whats better for OTA, RG6, or RG59, or does it really even matter, my RG6 works fine, but I just wondered, thanks for the help everybody, also sorry if I got snappy earlier just frustrated I lose out on NASCAR tommorow.

Also thanks for helping me out, I was just hoping there was someone with insight on cleveland locals who would know, or at least I was hoping that they would work out something like put the indians on the analog NBC, and HIGH DEF STO, and put NASCAR on Digital NBC or something like that

The problem is...it just doesn't work that way. WKYC was well aware of the possibility of the NASCAR race when it scheduled its Indians games...if not the exact race, surely the possibility of one.

The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7.

There's basically nowhere to put it, and WKYC isn't "moving" it to STO because they already knew about the conflict when they scheduled it.

off subject slightly .. but I remember during NCAA tournament they played different feeds on analog and digital I

anyways whats better for OTA, RG6, or RG59, or does it really even matter, my RG6 works fine, but I just wondered,

Always use RG6, it's better than RG59.

The problem is...it just doesn't work that way. WKYC was well aware of the possibility of the NASCAR race when it scheduled its Indians games...if not the exact race, surely the possibility of one.

The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7.

There's basically nowhere to put it, and WKYC isn't "moving" it to STO because they already knew about the conflict when they scheduled it.

I don't think WKYC has incentive to move the Indians to STO. They make so much money in local ad revenue that it'd be silly to move the game elsewhere.

Dude.....the Browns game looked like complete trash on my TV. I am getting the HD feed from Massillon Cable....it looked nasty! I switched to the FOX game and it looked astounding!

Since I bought this new Aquos TV my true HD viewing pleasure is amazing.....4x better than my old HDTV. But the SD signals have decreased in qualaity by 4x too! So basically anything not in HD looks like caca now. It is so bad it is hard to even watch it.

I'm sure part of it is my TV and the other part is the switch to Massillon cable from Time Warner.....seems like MC compresses the heck out of SD signals to the point that I see mpg artifacts a lot....not the defective blocks that pop up....but softness and macroblocking on defined edges!

I am so frustrated! Why did I have to move for my job?


I have Massillon Cable too. If you are watching the SD signals through the Massillon cable DVR they look extra bad. The DVR converts everything you watch into digital so it can be recorded in case you want to "pause live TV", or any of the other DVR tricks. The HDTV channels don't look bad on the DVR because they are already digital and don't get converted. If I hook the cable directly to my TV's tuner and bypass the DVR, I think the SD channels look a little better.

Unfortunately the SD digital cable channels don't look any better because they do compress the heck out of them.

Well boys, we've still got the fuzz-outs on WKYC on the Bengals game tonight. Doesn't seem as bad as last week, but it's still there.

I sent an email last week with a link to Indundated's pictures but received no response. The only email address that seemed reasonable was programming@wkyc.com They don't have a published email for engineering.

I missed the NBC SNF game, so I didn't get a chance to see it.

Paul - engineering@wkyc.com? I would suppose that could work, though I have never tried it. Their addresses seem straightforward.

I have Massillon Cable too. If you are watching the SD signals through the Massillon cable DVR they look extra bad. The DVR converts everything you watch into digital so it can be recorded in case you want to "pause live TV", or any of the other DVR tricks. The HDTV channels don't look bad on the DVR because they are already digital and don't get converted. If I hook the cable directly to my TV's tuner and bypass the DVR, I think the SD channels look a little better.

Unfortunately the SD digital cable channels don't look any better because they do compress the heck out of them.

Thanks fo replying! I do have another question for you if you can help. On the cable remote there is a button at the bottom that says "aspect" that doesn't do anything. On my old Time Warner Box it would squish the images or stretch the image to fit my needs. I hate watching 4x3 material stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.
I now have no options as the cable box just doesn't do it.

Is this how yours works too?

Well boys, we've still got the fuzz-outs on WKYC on the Bengals game tonight. Doesn't seem as bad as last week, but it's still there.

I sent an email last week with a link to Indundated's pictures but received no response. The only email address that seemed reasonable was programming@wkyc.com They don't have a published email for engineering.

This is the first NBC HD broadcast I have seen and I noticed this too. However, in comparison to the Horrid Browns game I saw Thursday evening in SD/SD upconvert on the HD channel, I'd take this type of glitch anyday. The Browns game was aliased all over, stretched and generally just harsh. I have watched SD for years and never saw anything this harsh.

Hoping it doesn't look this bad on CBS when the regular season gets here.....

Peace!

I found the following information on the FCC site regarding a timetable for WBNX-DT to start DTV transmissions. They state, if everything goes well, it would take 6-8 months from the time the contruction permit is received, to start DTV transmissions

A construction permit was issued to WBNX-DT on 4/20/06 so we should expect a late Oct to Dec 2006 start date.

Below is the relevant FCC information from the Feb of 2005 application.

APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT A DIGITAL TELEVISION BROADCAST STATION-FILE NO. BEPCDT - 20020301AAT Exibit Attachment 1


"Inasmuch as the initial construction permit authorizing WBNX-DT to construct DTV facilities has not yet been issued, it is anticipated that under the most optimal circumstances, construction could be completed within six to eight months of the date on which WBNX-DT receives Commissionauthority. This amount of time would be required merely to meet the Commission’s new, reduced build-out requirement. Also, this estimate presumes the successful and timely acquisition of the requisite equipment, and scheduling and coordination of construction personnel. Until the authorization is granted, an antenna and other equipment cannot be ordered. It has been the licensee’s experience that once the antenna is ordered, it likely will take six to eight months or longer to receive it. Completion of construction at this point now depends primarily upon when the authorization is granted, the ability of the manufacturer to deliver the antenna, and the scheduling of the requisite antenna and other installation personnel."

I found the following information on the FCC site regarding a timetable for WBNX-DT to start DTV transmissions. They state, if everything goes well, it would take 6-8 months from the time the contruction permit is received, to start DTV transmissions

A construction permit was issued to WBNX-DT on 4/20/06 so we should expect a late Oct to Dec 2006 start date.

Below is the relevant FCC information from the Feb of 2005 application.

APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO CONSTRUCT A DIGITAL TELEVISION BROADCAST STATION-FILE NO. BEPCDT - 20020301AAT Exibit Attachment 1


"Inasmuch as the initial construction permit authorizing WBNX-DT to construct DTV facilities has not yet been issued, it is anticipated that under the most optimal circumstances, construction could be completed within six to eight months of the date on which WBNX-DT receives Commissionauthority. This amount of time would be required merely to meet the Commission’s new, reduced build-out requirement. Also, this estimate presumes the successful and timely acquisition of the requisite equipment, and scheduling and coordination of construction personnel. Until the authorization is granted, an antenna and other equipment cannot be ordered. It has been the licensee’s experience that once the antenna is ordered, it likely will take six to eight months or longer to receive it. Completion of construction at this point now depends primarily upon when the authorization is granted, the ability of the manufacturer to deliver the antenna, and the scheduling of the requisite antenna and other installation personnel."


Well, doesn't that just bite. Then you can add on at least for TW subscribers how long it's going to take to negotiate and start transmitting the signal another six months.

Doesn't look like I'll be watching Supernatural or Smallville this year in HD. :(

anyone know what happens tommorow? as Nascar is suppose to be on at 1 on NBC, and Indians are suppose to be on tommorow at 1 On NBC. I would love to watch both, or just nascar and put indians on STO.

They are scheduled to be doing this again on Oct. 1...

WKYC sucks

They are scheduled to be doing this again on Oct. 1...

WKYC sucks

Well I guess you have to keep it in perspective. I think 10-1 would be last game of the season, and WKYC signed on to do 20 games OTA. Now that doesn't mean just HD, just OTA. There are people out there with no cable or sattelite or HD.

Ok, so I don't know anybody but there has to be. :) And even though you may love your nascar, I'm willing to bet the greater majority of people in Cleveland itself probably could give a damn. And I also bet that's where a large part of those ota no hd people are too.

they should have at least tape delayed the race. Not showing it at all is crap.

they should have at least tape delayed the race. Not showing it at all is crap.

Actually I think you have a point. Even if they showed it late at night you'd have a chance to record it.

They showed the Browns on Thursday and moved the NBC show Windfall to something like 2 in the morning.

they showed the last I think 15 laps or so, something like that. so it wasnt all a loss

Actually I think you have a point. Even if they showed it late at night you'd have a chance to record it.

They showed the Browns on Thursday and moved the NBC show Windfall to something like 2 in the morning.

According to Roger Brown's column in the PD today, this is not an option for NASCAR:

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/roger_brown/index.ssf?/base/sports/1155544636305450.xml&coll=2


(Channel 3's program director) said when Channel 3 later learned the two events would directly conflict, the station asked NBC if it could tape the race and show it in its entirety after the ballgame -- but that the network's contract with NASCAR didn't permit it.

Mostly off topic, but does anyone know of a source to find Neilsen ratings for Cleveland in particular? I know a lot of the bigger cities have published ratings individually.

Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?

I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.

I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.

Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?

Thanks

Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?

I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.

I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.

Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?

Thanks

Here's antenna web.org (http://www.checkhd.com/aw/welcome.aspx ) I don't know if they will help in your situation but give it a try.

I know it's not cheap but the other answer to your problem is cable. I have no problems with WKYC at all via Time Warner.

Does anyone have any suggestions on large directional antennae and pre-amps?

I've been considering getting an outdoor antenna for a while now, and now with the crap WKYC is doing I am probably going to get one with in a month or so.

I guess the station I will be trying for is NBC 24 out of Toledo, that is the nearest NBC from me. About 70miles from me, I have occassionally recieved the SD station at night with my small indoor antenna.

Has anyone in the area had luck recieving this station and have an idea of what antenna i should get?

Thanks
Why don't you contact Cleveland Antenna Service and let them figure it out for you.
They are professionals and many people have posted favorable comments about them.
Call Jim West
Cleveland Antenna Service
18020 Bennett Rd
N Royalton, Oh
Phone: (440) 237-6888

Craigv:
I occasionally receive analog channel 13 from Toledo, but only sometimes and most of the time it's pretty snowy.
JJK

Umm, good luck on that WNWO-DT thing.


WNWO-TV OH TOLEDO USA (Digital)
Licensee: WNWO LICENSE SUBSIDIARY, LLC
Service Designation: DT Digital television station
Channel: 49 680 - 686 MHz Licensed
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 59. kW ERP


That's right, 59KW.

Here's the map out of their 41 dBu service area:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT599459.gif

OK, maybe not as bad as it sounds, but note that you'll have almost no shot at DT49 the closer you get to analog 49 in this market, WEAO/Akron.

hey anyone know what happened to woio's weather subchannel? it was up one week (nothing being broadcast, and gone the next)

Note:I am not saying I want it, as that would probably put CBS Hd inline with NBC, but I am just curious why they put it up for a week.

Thanks fo replying! I do have another question for you if you can help. On the cable remote there is a button at the bottom that says "aspect" that doesn't do anything. On my old Time Warner Box it would squish the images or stretch the image to fit my needs. I hate watching 4x3 material stretched to fill a 16x9 screen.
I now have no options as the cable box just doesn't do it.

Is this how yours works too?

The "aspect" button does nothing on mine too. I have to use the TV's controls to try to adjust the image stretch and zoom. Many TVs don't give you the option to unstretch the 16x9 HDTV material. I also hate watching stretched 4x3. We can only hope that someday the TV stations will wake up and realize how bad this looks.

When TWC took over for Adelphia in northeastern Ohio, they added a lot of free material to the "adelphia on demand" choices. Now it's all going away, and so are the items in the subscription "on demand" services (e.g. HBO, Showtime). As items reach their expiration date, they disappear from the list and new ones do not take their place.

Anybody talked to TWC about this?

Umm, good luck on that WNWO-DT thing.



That's right, 59KW.

Here's the map out of their 41 dBu service area:

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/fm_tv_service_areas/maps/DT599459.gif

OK, maybe not as bad as it sounds, but note that you'll have almost no shot at DT49 the closer you get to analog 49 in this market, WEAO/Akron.

Thanks for the info, i might just have to settle for the analog station of WNWO.

When TWC took over for Adelphia in northeastern Ohio, they added a lot of free material to the "adelphia on demand" choices. Now it's all going away, and so are the items in the subscription "on demand" services (e.g. HBO, Showtime). As items reach their expiration date, they disappear from the list and new ones do not take their place.

Anybody talked to TWC about this?

Have YOU talked to them about it (1-888-683-1000)? I can only imagine the many different responses you would get. If you have some time to kill call them at various times of the day and see how many different answers you get to your question. :)

Or maybe your a busy person and that's why you asked here. :) I would guess their response will be "We will be adding more programing around (insert date here)."

The "aspect" button does nothing on mine too. I have to use the TV's controls to try to adjust the image stretch and zoom. Many TVs don't give you the option to unstretch the 16x9 HDTV material. I also hate watching stretched 4x3. We can only hope that someday the TV stations will wake up and realize how bad this looks.

Thanks. Unfortunately my TV does not have the option to "unstretch" stretched images. I can zoom, smart stretch, dot by dot and stretch. No option for compressing the image back to 4x3. So I am stuck watching all non 16x9 material on NBC stretched. When I had Time Warner I at least could switch to the Youngstown NBC affiliate.....who even though they are a much smaller station in a smaller market, actually properly pillar box the 4x3 images instead of stretching them.

Oh well. Thanks.

Hey Nascar fans, looks like the squeaky wheel gets greased. (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/)



NASCAR Fans Speak - WKYC Listens

We noted earlier that members of NASCAR Nation were not happy over the weekend, when local NBC affiliate WKYC/3 pre-empted much of Sunday's race for a previously-scheduled Cleveland Indians game.

It looks like WKYC is going to do its best to avoid another such, umm, crash, in October.

The Indians are scheduled to play on Channel 3 on October 1st, which will conflict with another NASCAR race. WKYC programmer Terry Moir tells Akron Beacon Journal TV columnist R.D. Heldenfels that the station "is in discussions about swapping" that day's Indians game with SportsTime Ohio for another game.

Why didn't Channel 3 do this in the first place?

Moir says the station didn't want to switch another game with STO "too soon" after doing so just last month. That switch apparently didn't involve NASCAR, with fans who roar nearly as loud as the engines in their favorite drivers' cars.

That roar was apparently heard. Moir's ears are probably still ringing. She says it was never WKYC's "intention to upset people"...

I don't get STO in HI DEF so I look forward to the WKYC broadcasts......damn!

The problem with all of that is that they do not split up the analog and digital signals. I know stations that have put different sub-programming on subchannels, but WKYC only has the analog/HD simulcast (which is basically required by FCC law to run whatever is on the analog channel), and Weather Plus, which is required by contract to run 24/7. Not quite true on the FCC requirement. What is a true FCC "law" is that at least one service on a DT signal has to be free to air (i.e. not an encrypted, subscription or data feed). They can have such services, as long as one subchannel is in the clear.

As was already adressed in another post WOIO showed different NCAA playoff games on analog and digital. WVIZ carries a totally different schedule every day on the digital feed than what is carried on their analog channel.

As for the NBC and NASCAR - you would have a better chance getting WFMJ out of Youngstown. I get their analog signal on ch 21 every day, usually a bit snowy, sometimes very clear. When the analog is clear, I can also get the digital signal on ch 20. They are due to up the power on their digital, so I hope I can get that signal 24/7 (I do get WKBN-DT ch 41 24/7 today). I'm getting these stations in Parma due south of the Cleveland transmitters! I do see some inteference from the analog WOIO on the analog WFMJ. But for being as close as I am (the tower lights reflect off my neighbor's windows on clear nights) I glad I can get an alternative NBC, CBS, and FOX.

Go to this website and enter the call letters of the stations you want to receive:
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html
For WKBN-DT the coverage map shows that signal reaching from west of Strongsville all the way to greater Pittsburgh!

BTW: for the poster who wanted to know about WFMJ carrying Browns games, the station he really needs is WKBN-DT. They are CBS-HD and FOX SD (on a subchannel which carrier the LP FOX station WYFX). Last year WKBN and WYFX carried a total of 12 games that differed from what WOIO and WJW carried. That means that if you could have received bots sets of affilliates you would have access to more NFL games than with just Cleveland sations alone - all for free (well almost free, you have to buy a good directional UHF antenna and mont it high enough up to get Youngstown).

I don't get STO in HI DEF so I look forward to the WKYC broadcasts......damn!

you wont be missing a thing, just a different day.

BTW: for the poster who wanted to know about WFMJ carrying Browns games, the station he really needs is WKBN-DT. They are CBS-HD and FOX SD (on a subchannel which carrier the LP FOX station WYFX). Last year WKBN and WYFX carried a total of 12 games that differed from what WOIO and WJW carried. That means that if you could have received bots sets of affilliates you would have access to more NFL games than with just Cleveland sations alone - all for free (well almost free, you have to buy a good directional UHF antenna and mont it high enough up to get Youngstown).

And in 5.1 on KBN's CBS channel....

Michael My neighbor is after wkbn as they are convinced they will show most of the steelers games, so I am going to give them what they want, and tune that station in for them, even though I have told them, they are not a steelers station! But I cant wait for football games!

Michael My neighbor is after wkbn as they are convinced they will show most of the steelers games, so I am going to give them what they want, and tune that station in for them, even though I have told them, they are not a steelers station! But I cant wait for football games!

I just moved from Warren/Youngstown area and can tell you they always show Browns games over the Steelers games if the times are the same. This area of Ohio is the halfway mark between Pitt and Cleveland and is split pretty evenly between fans. However the nod always goes in Clevelands favor as far as WKBN broadcasts are concerned.

did anyone else lose their hd locals from D*.

I just moved from Warren/Youngstown area and can tell you they always show Browns games over the Steelers games if the times are the same. This area of Ohio is the halfway mark between Pitt and Cleveland and is split pretty evenly between fans. However the nod always goes in Clevelands favor as far as WKBN broadcasts are concerned.

thats what I was trying to tell them, they already have time warner, but if they gain one steelers game a year, it was money well spent!

by the way. fox had football for SD for half a game and then switched to HD, kinda weird.

by the way. fox had football for SD for half a game and then switched to HD, kinda weird.

I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.

Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).

As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?

I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.

Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).

As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?

FOX=720p
NBC=1080i

That could be the reason.

I tuned in to FOX 8 for the game, and it looked great. Best FOX football HD I've ever seen. The closeups, in particular, had that "through the window" looking quality.

720p/1080i basically means that 1080i stations which multicast (like WKYC) have to deal with lower bandwidth...1080i needs more bandwidth, and subchannels don't help that. That produces effects such as macroblocking.

720p stations can actually fit in another subchannel and still not take much of a hit on PQ. And since FOX 8 doesn't even have a subchannel...there you go.

I don't think this will effect any Dish Network subscribers, as DishDVR is the brand of DVR box that they have, but what about DirectTV users? Any thoughts on this?
--------------
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - A judge has ordered EchoStar to disable the digital video recorders used by several million subscribers to its Dish satellite TV service because they infringe on patents held by TiVo.

Thursday's ruling from U.S. District Judge David Folsom in Marshall, Texas, demands that within 30 days EchoStar must basically render useless all but 192,708 of the DVR units it has deployed.
The decision comes four months after a jury ruled that EchoStar should pay TiVo $74.9 million because it willfully infringed TiVo patents that allow for the digital storage of TV programming.

The judge also denied EchoStar's request that the injunction be stayed pending appeal, making it difficult for EchoStar to continue offering its subscribers' DVR functionality without striking a quick licensing deal with TiVo or another DVR maker.

While the injunction battle clearly was won by TiVo, the scrappy pioneer of the DVR industry also was handed a loss Thursday when Folsom ruled against its request that the jury award be tripled. The judge, however, ordered EchoStar to pay an additional $5.4 million in interest payments and $10.3 million in supplemental damages, bringing the amount EchoStar owes TiVo to nearly $90 million.

NO BAD FAITH

In ruling against treble damages, Folsom noted that EchoStar was not allowed to present evidence that it received outside legal advice indicating that the DVRs it created did not infringe TiVo's patents. That EchoStar sought such advice before TiVo sued it "could demonstrate a lack of willfulness" on the part of EchoStar, the judge wrote in denying TiVo's request of treble damages.

"The evidence does not show the defendants acted in bad faith, nor does the jury's willfulness finding amount to a finding of bad faith," Folsom wrote.

In asking for an injunction, TiVo argued that, while it would become extinct if unable to protect its patents and sell its DVRs, EchoStar's primary business of satellite TV transmissions does not depend on its ability to offer DVRs.

EchoStar claimed, among other arguments, that TiVo's motive in filing a lawsuit was to gain additional leverage over EchoStar and other prospective business partners in order to strike lucrative licensing deals.

The vast majority of TiVo subscribers, in fact, come by way of a licensing agreement with EchoStar competitor DirecTV. Another agreement with cable giant Comcast Corp. won't bear fruit until later this year, and TiVo has had trouble lining up other big players in the pay TV market, who mostly have been offering their customers generic DVRs.

Siding with TiVo, Folsom wrote that one thing both companies agreed on is that DVR customers are "sticky," meaning that once they obtain a DVR they stick with it, so business that TiVo has been losing to EchoStar might not be recovered without a ruling of infringement.

'CRITICAL TIME'

TiVo, the judge wrote, "is losing market share at a critical time in the market's development -- market share that it will not have the same opportunity to capture once the market matures."

EchoStar also claimed that the timing of TiVo's lawsuit -- several years after EchoStar began selling DVRs -- amounted to proof that it was not suffering irreparable injury. Folsom, though, noted that TiVo hadn't sued EchoStar sooner because it was trying to enter into a business deal with it.

EchoStar also said an injunction would unduly hurt its business, an argument Folsom was not entirely unsympathetic to -- though, again, he came down on the side of TiVo.

"Although the injunction will likely result in some degree of customer loss and will impact (EchoStar's) ability to compete in the market, (EchoStar) will not be irreparably harmed," he wrote.

Folsom's ruling was filed after the close of regular and after-hours trading on Wall Street, so it did not affect the share prices of EchoStar and TiVo. When TiVo won its jury trial in April, its shares moved up 23 percent in after-hours trading, though the stock has since given back much of that gain.

TiVo shares closed up fractionally Thursday to $6.49, while EchoStar shares fell 1.1 percent to $32.75.

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

One more about this, as it seems Echostar DOES make the Dish Network ones:

Judge blocks order to shut down 4 million Echostar DVRs
By Wolfgang Gruener
Published Friday 18th August 2006 13:56 GMT


Englewood (CO) - A federal appeals court temporarily blocked an earlier ruling of an U.S. District Court judge in Texas that would have given Echostar Communications, better known as the operator of the Dish Network, to shut down its service to more than four million DVR devices and pay $89.6 million in damages to Tivo, which sued Echostar in 2004 for patent infringement.

Echostar's stock has been sent on a roller coaster ride early this morning after a U.S. District Court Judge David Folsom granted Tivo a "permanent" injunction against Echostar Communications that ordered the company to "stop making, using, offering for sale or selling in the United States their DVR products," including the models DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, "and all Echostar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products." The ruling would have included the shutdown of the service and essentially the functionality of more than four million devices currently used by Dish Network subscribers within 30 days.



language=JavaScript type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT> <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>


Judge Folsom also ordered Echostar to pay Tivo approximately $73.992 million in damages, interest in the amount of $5.638 million as well as supplemental damages in the amount of $10.317 million.

After losing $1.98 or 6% of its value, Echostar's stock recovered to a loss of only 1% in early afternoon trading on Friday when the company announced that the federal appeals court in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court. Echostar said that the appeals court "considers a longer-term stay of that injunction." As a result, Echostar can continue to sell and operate all of its digital video recorder models. In a statement released on Friday, the firm said that it believes that the "Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement."

Tivo sued Echostar in Federal District Court on 5 January 2004, alleging that ECC and certain subsidiaries are violating U.S. Patent 6,233,389 issued to TiVo in May 2001, known as the "Time Warp" patent. The Time Warp patent describes systems and methods for the simultaneous storage and playback of programs, supporting advanced capabilities such as pausing live television, fast-forwarding, rewinding, instant replays, and slow motion. On 13 April 2006, a Texas jury agreed with Tivo that Echostar "willfully" infringed Tivo's Time Warp patent.

Echostar is the second-largest satellite TV provider in the U.S. with a customer base of about 12.5 million subscribers.

It's not going to affect D*. They had an agreement with TiVo and are now distributing their own DVR's with their own software. TiVo was the software that was used by D* previously.

But the implications this will have on E* could be tremendous. MusicAngel could you be kind enough to post the link to this publication? I don't doubt the authenticity at all, I would like to forward this information to someone else.

720p/1080i basically means that 1080i stations which multicast (like WKYC) have to deal with lower bandwidth...1080i needs more bandwidth, and subchannels don't help that. That produces effects such as macroblocking.

720p stations can actually fit in another subchannel and still not take much of a hit on PQ. And since FOX 8 doesn't even have a subchannel...there you go.

Yeah, but I'm watching 27.1 out of Youngstown, and the game tonight looks beautiful. That's 1080i WITH a full-motion subchannel.... and 5.1 audio. KYC's Weather Plus has very limited actual movement, and it should lend itself better to being a subchannel without destroying the PQ on the main station.

If KBN can do it, why can't KYC?

Yeah, but I'm watching 27.1 out of Youngstown, and the game tonight looks beautiful. That's 1080i WITH a full-motion subchannel.... and 5.1 audio. KYC's Weather Plus has very limited actual movement, and it should lend itself better to being a subchannel without destroying the PQ on the main station.

If KBN can do it, why can't KYC?

I'd blame the encoder. Remember, WKYC had that "fuzzy" problem at least in the first NBC SNF game, and their encoder is probably not up to the latest specs.

WKBN, meanwhile, just got their HD signal up and running.

I tuned in with 11 minutes left in the second quarter and it was HD. This was OTA from Fox 8.

Comparing it to WKYC 3's (NBC's actually) game broadcast quality it was no contest, FOX wins hands down OTA. A gorgeous picture. Maybe because of no NFL for a while on NBC they are playing catchup? Although they did have the Olympics and those were okay ('cept for sound).

As I didn't have the HD setup last college season I can't atest for NBC's quality during any of those football broadcasts. Were they as bad as we are seeing on Sunday Night Football?

dont know when the switch was, but it was there, I am getting it OTA...Unlesss my box just went to the SD station, but I flipped back later and it was beautiful football as usual!

dont know when the switch was, but it was there, I am getting it OTA...Unlesss my box just went to the SD station, but I flipped back later and it was beautiful football as usual!

There really isn't much "switch flipping" problem with FOX stations, since the splicer pretty much handles it automatically. I can't remember ever seeing WJW miss an HD "switch".

This is off topic - but did anyone notice that Bernie Kosar seemed quite intoxicated during last night's game?

This is off topic - but did anyone notice that Bernie Kosar seemed quite intoxicated during last night's game?

I didn't notice. But I was quite intoxicated myself. :D :D

I noticed his legs shook......ALOT! like he was really nervous! then they started cracking on his running skills and he shut up. LOL

Well, I made the decision. Despite all the bad crap about D* lately and their "HD Lite" and whatever, I have decided to switch. I'm not even going to give TW a chance.

The reason is the DVR, and I cannot have an HD TiVo because I don't have a land line phone. American Satallite says they can hook up the D* HD-DVR even with a dead land line (I talked to a supervisor on this) so this Wednesday it's by by TW, Hello D*

I even ordered a box for my parrots room so they don't have to look at OTA crap anymore. :D

Am I crazy or what?

Oh I'll still keep the high speed internet.

Hookbill? Didn't you have tree issues regarding D*? Or is the satellite installer gonna come with a chainsaw, too? :D

Hookbill? Didn't you have tree issues regarding D*? Or is the satellite installer gonna come with a chainsaw, too? :D

Well, it's kinda going to work like this. You see the wife is going out of town. She will be gone for 4 days. She has prohibited me from sticking that dish in the front yard. But too bad, so sad...that's where it's going ;) .

So when she gets home she will probably be p.o.d, but oh well...she won't divorce me over it. I'll probably get a minor beating at best. :D

So when she gets home she will probably be p.o.d, but oh well...she won't divorce me over it. I'll probably get a minor beating at best. :D

Please tell me that at least the monthly bill is going to be lower. Otherwise, Hook, I'm concerned about your safety. :p

Oh, Hook, is the new mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.

Well, I made the decision. Despite all the bad crap about D* lately and their "HD Lite" and whatever, I have decided to switch. I'm not even going to give TW a chance.


Didn't think it would ever happen....
If you get the HD-tivo HR10-250 up and running, I think you'll be pleased. Welcome to the club.

Oh, Hook, is the new mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.

I could have sworn I read in this forum that it was available but maybe I am wrong, maybe they are just broadcasting in HD over the satallite.

The one they show on D*'s website looks like that one however if you actually go to order it it's still the TiVo based software.

Oh, and thanks for your concern on my welfare. :)

Didn't think it would ever happen....
If you get the HD-tivo HR10-250 up and running, I think you'll be pleased. Welcome to the club.

Tom or anyone who might know, since my TV is only "HD Ready" does the HR10-250 have the capability of converting OTA channels? There is an outdoor antennae I can buy to attach to my dish for this purpose but if it won't convert those signals it wouldn't make sense to buy one.

Yes, the HR10-250 has dual ATSC tuners for OTA reception.

Oh, Hook, is the new mpeg-4 HD-DVR available yet? I think it was called the HRD-250 or something.

The D* MPEG4 HD-DVR has just been released and there are some reviews available out there on the net.

What about the HR20-250? That's the new one, right? The one with mpeg-4?

I think I saw that it's being distributed out on the west coast (or maybe it's being called the HR20-700 now; I couldn't tell in the brief time I had to research last night). Any info on when it might appear here on the north coast?

I've had D* for 6 or 7 years now, and I've been an HD subscriber for 3. I'd love to upgrade to a TiVO, but I've been waiting for the locals to be available in HD and a DVR that can support them. If anybody has been able to get it done here in Cleveland, I'd love to hear about it -- especially if there are some magic "customer retention" words to use when calling.

Thanks!

Hr20-700 is the New Directv HD reciever, it is available in L.A. only. Our locals are up on Directv's Sat's but only in MPEG4. The HR10-250 (tivo Hd reciever) can not handle Mpeg4, you will need the HR20-700 due sometime next month according to everyone in the Know. If you have a HD Dvr now, its a free upgrade, if you dont its a 299 or 399 price. enjoy, oh and they both Have Dual OTA tuners, BUT the HR20-700 is disabled right now ( meaning you can only record sat. channels, you dont even get OTA channels) they are rumored to be enabled later, but you never know DIrectv just might force you to go to their Sat Locals.

Thank you. That was exactly the info I was looking for.

Couple things, though. Did the name change from HR20-250 to HR20-700? Or is there still a 250 model floating around out there somewhere?

And what about the dish upgrade itself? Aren't the new locals on a 5-LNB dish? Any luck getting that upgrade paid for by D*? Or is that included with the $299 or $399?

And does the upgrade cost you your old receiver? In other words, do I have to trade it in?

#1 Has always been 700, 250 is the Hard drive size, but 700 is model Number

#2 included in Upgrade price

#3 if you own or lease a HD OR HD DVR the rumor is you trade them in for a leased HR20-700, I am not sure but according to many even if you have a Regular HD reciever you get the Hr20-700 for free.

#3 if you own or lease a HD OR HD DVR the rumor is you trade them in for a leased HR20-700, I am not sure but according to many even if you have a Regular HD reciever you get the Hr20-700 for free.

Thanks again. I truly appreciate it.

I think I'll wait until this shakes out a bit. I paid $1,000 for a Sony HD-200 a few years back, and I don't want to lose it. Since I own it, I'm not going to trade it in for a leased box. I want to keep what's mine, and I just can't logically make the connection between losing a grand and making indefinite payments for a leased one.

I realize, of course, that nothing in life is truly free. If I have to buy a new box, so be it. But given D*'s propensity to want to control long-term contracts, I imagine that once all of the early adopters get on the bandwagon and D* is stretching for new customers, there will be better deals to be had.

From what I understand,the (700) in the model #HR20-700 indicates who was the manufactuer of the unit, and in this case it was Pace. Pace is a long time maker of set top boxes for the cable industry among others.

Ben Music

Yes, the HR10-250 has dual ATSC tuners for OTA reception.

I went to CC and took a look at one. I didn't see the dual ATSC tuner and the sales drone said they didn't have one but he was also convinced (at first) that it was capable of receivng the local digitals from the satellite.

He also showed me the antenna that clips on top of the dish. They wanted 70.00 for that and D has it for 49.00.

Also in my conversations with D* they are saying that an upgrade to the H 20 may not be free.

I went to CC and took a look at one. I didn't see the dual ATSC tuner and the sales drone said they didn't have one but he was also convinced (at first) that it was capable of receivng the local digitals from the satellite.


Hi Hook,
The HR10-250 has dual ota & sat tuners. Only one ota coax input which is split inside. You can record 2 channels(sat or ota) in HD at same time and watch another that's been recorded. The HDTivo(HR10-250) outputs all channels to whichever output format you set. Meaning, if you switch to an SD channel it will still output 1080i or whichever format you set. Maybe you knew all this.

If possible, push to have the 5lnb dish installed, that way when the HR20-250(mpeg4 DVR) receiver comes out, you'll only have to switch receivers - not the dish. Just to clarify, the HR10-250 can only receive the Cleveland locals in HD via ota. You can subscribe to SD cleveland locals which works fine on the HR10-250.

Hi Hook,
If possible, push to have the 5lnb dish installed, that way when the HR20-250(mpeg4 DVR) receiver comes out, you'll only have to switch receivers - not the dish. Just to clarify, the HR10-250 can only receive the Cleveland locals in HD via ota. You can subscribe to SD cleveland locals which works fine on the HR10-250.

The picture I see appears to be the 5LNB you can seehere (http://www.americansatellite.com/products/viewprod.asp/ITEM/1586) . I am comparing this with a picture of what I see at D*'s web site. I believe it is the correct dish and that D* is telling installers to only install this at this time.

It's not going to affect D*. They had an agreement with TiVo and are now distributing their own DVR's with their own software. TiVo was the software that was used by D* previously.

But the implications this will have on E* could be tremendous. MusicAngel could you be kind enough to post the link to this publication? I don't doubt the authenticity at all, I would like to forward this information to someone else.

Hookbill - I will have to ask my friend where she got it since she emailed it to me. By looking at the model numbers referenced in the article, it looks like ours is one of those, even though it does say DishDVR....???

HookBIll, I will say this, because I have directv right now, Their Dvr's have been known in the past to miss some recordings, especially if you have alot of them going (dont lie you know you do! :) ) they are not the best ones out there at this point, but the insiders say they will get better. Also with that dish, it is heavier, and it tends to go out of alignment more easily, because it is a Ka band sat (thast what they use for the HD Locals) it has only a small window to get aligned in, and a slight bump, or strong wind could/will throw it out of alignment for some satellites. I have always said, the moment Directv makes me upgrade past my 3 lnb dish, then I am going back to time warner, As I really dont like those, and their have been complaints, ALOT of them not getting installed right. But if you can make it past these things, and I make them sound bad when really they probably are not. Then I think you will enjoy Directv, I do.


edit: By the way, a judge has blocked the ruling, and Dish network does not have to shut down their recievers. Go to Dbstalk and/or Satelliteguys.us....Infact Hookbill go to thoes sites and snoop around, you will learn ALOT about satellite stuff.

HookBIll, I will say this, because I have directv right now, Their Dvr's have been known in the past to miss some recordings, especially if you have alot of them going (dont lie you know you do! :) ) they are not the best ones out there at this point, but the insiders say they will get better. Also with that dish, it is heavier, and it tends to go out of alignment more easily, because it is a Ka band sat (thast what they use for the HD Locals) it has only a small window to get aligned in, and a slight bump, or strong wind could/will throw it out of alignment for some satellites. I have always said, the moment Directv makes me upgrade past my 3 lnb dish, then I am going back to time warner, As I really dont like those, and their have been complaints, ALOT of them not getting installed right. But if you can make it past these things, and I make them sound bad when really they probably are not. Then I think you will enjoy Directv, I do.


edit: By the way, a judge has blocked the ruling, and Dish network does not have to shut down their recievers. Go to Dbstalk and/or Satelliteguys.us....Infact Hookbill go to thoes sites and snoop around, you will learn ALOT about satellite stuff.

One of the reasons I went with the American Satellite was because they have an outstanding reputation. If I have any problems I can go back to them and they will take care of it - not Direct TV. I'm not new at all to satallite tv and I'm very familiar with the TiVo software that is in the current model I'm getting. I had two D-Tivo's in the past, though not HD.

The SA 8300 that I have does not work well with my external hard drive and even independent of that it misses recordings, records partial shows, has a terrible search feature, no real season pass and can cause conflicts and miss recordings unless you check it every day. Oh and the external hard drive I use is the one recommended as best to use with the SA 8300, its a Maxtor which is the same hard drive that is in it.

My experience with the SA 8300 has left me very frustrated from time to time and forced me to have to do things on the internet that we know we're not suppose to do. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. :)

I'm looking forward to my installation which has been moved to Thursday now because I had to change my order a bit. :mad: And I would suggest stuart628 you may want to take a look at the TiVo Community Forum - there is a lot of knowledge there as well.

Hook,
I have D* at the office, and the clip-on antenna (a Terk that IMHO can be VHF only) is a POS. It won't pick up anything OTA from Mayfield Village, but I am in an unusual environment - metal clad buildings all around, so YMMV.

Does anybody have the ability to check WOIO-DT's bandwidth? (Indundated? :D )

Someone earlier mentioned that WOIO experimented with a weather subchannel and I wonder if they didn't put the bandwidth back to the main channel. I say this based on the Friday night NFL game. There was a little bit of macroblocking on fast motion that I don't remember seeing from CBS last season.

Hook,
I have D* at the office, and the clip-on antenna (a Terk that IMHO can be VHF only) is a POS. It won't pick up anything OTA from Mayfield Village, but I am in an unusual environment - metal clad buildings all around, so YMMV.

Before they sold me the clip job they did do a test to see if it would work in my area. I'm going to have them stick the dish probably in front of my house maybe 100 ft or so on a pole. That should give it a clear view of the southern sky and if it needs adjusting it will be easy to get to. I'm in the woods so I have a lot of trees to deal with.

Does anybody have the ability to check WOIO-DT's bandwidth? (Indundated? :D )


I don't have any software that'll do it, or any way to analyze saved video...though my Fusion5USB HDTV card is pretty much confined to cable QAM these days anyway :D

(And there is no "d" after the first "n" in my login name. ;) )

(And there is no "d" after the first "n" in my login name. ;) )

I am currently inundated with a few Coronas :D

I have an OnAir GT (http://www.autumnwave.com/content/view/30/117/) on order so hopefully I can do some OTA and QAM screen caps. Although it looks like the networks have worked out most of the glitches for NFL HD football so I might not have much to bitch about hehe...

Before they sold me the clip job they did do a test to see if it would work in my area. I'm going to have them stick the dish probably in front of my house maybe 100 ft or so on a pole. That should give it a clear view of the southern sky and if it needs adjusting it will be easy to get to. I'm in the woods so I have a lot of trees to deal with.

Make sure you have the option to return the clipon antenna after practical testing after installation.

I also have heard bad things from several sources about the clipon antenna, and also I agree with paule123 that YMMV.

You know how I was complaining about my install being pushed back? Well, I went to D*'s web site and logged in and right there was my install date and a button to click to change install date. I clicked it and got Wednesday morning, my original date back.

It probably took the weekend to clear out and make it available again. Only 2 days to go and bye bye cable (well, cable tv anyway).

I'm not new at all to satallite tv and I'm very familiar with the TiVo software that is in the current model I'm getting. I had two D-Tivo's in the past, though not HD.

I don't know for sure, but I think stuart628 might have been talking about the new D* branded DVRs rather than the DTivos.

I don't know for sure, but I think stuart628 might have been talking about the new D* branded DVRs rather than the DTivos.

Yeah, I really don't know what's up with those. I guess I'll find out if they do a switch out.

Well, this week, there seems to be yet again some slight improvement to the blurries, but they are still there. Overall it's no longer distracting like it was for the HOF game.

FOX still gets my vote for best PQ with some good posts on the previous forums page giving possible reasons for the differences between KYC and FOX..

Yeah, I really don't know what's up with those. I guess I'll find out if they do a switch out.

yeah I was talking about Directv Dvrs, Tivo is generally rock solid (unless directv is messin with the guide data! dang you Directv DANG YOU!)

Did anybody else notice how strong the WFMJ-DT signal was last night? I was able to pick it up with my big outdoor antenna pointed straight at the Parma antenna farm. That's about 90 degrees away from Y-town for me. I'm wondering if I was just experiencing good atmospherics last night or if WFMJ-DT has boosted their output up to 460 kW. I did not notice any improvement in the WKBN-DT signal - I was not able to receive them without turning the antenna.

Did anybody else notice how strong the WFMJ-DT signal was last night? I was able to pick it up with my big outdoor antenna pointed straight at the Parma antenna farm. That's about 90 degrees away from Y-town for me. I'm wondering if I was just experiencing good atmospherics last night or if WFMJ-DT has boosted their output up to 460 kW. I did not notice any improvement in the WKBN-DT signal - I was not able to receive them without turning the antenna.


No change here. The antenna is sitting in Maine waiting to roll down here.

Has anyone out there ever been able to pick up either CNN or Fox News using a QAM tuner hooked into basic Time Warner Cable ? I can get the local stations and a few others like E !, Encore and the TV Guide Network, but no cable news.

Has anyone out there ever been able to pick up either CNN or Fox News using a QAM tuner hooked into basic Time Warner Cable ? I can get the local stations and a few others like E !, Encore and the TV Guide Network, but no cable news.
You should be grateful for that. :D

Generally speaking, not much is available on "in the clear" QAM aside from the local broadcast outlets HD/DT feeds and a handful of other things.

On the now-former Adelphia side of TWC, we get such things as TNTHD, Discovery HD and the HD channel for the Indians and Cavs, along with WKYC's Weather Plus feed, WVIZ's feed of The Ohio Channel and some others.

You're not likely to find CNN/FOX News/MSNBC/etc. in the clear on QAM, though, on any system.

Is there a resource on the net or elsewhere which will show you what is available in the clear through QAM?

Is there a resource on the net or elsewhere which will show you what is available in the clear through QAM?

This would be the resource you're looking for. Ask and somebody may provide the most current availability. The problem is that the channels available in the clear change too frequently for a service to track. Not to mention cable cos accidently leave some channels unencrypted and correct the problem usually within days.

The only reliable set of channels you should expect to receive are the digital local broadcasts carried by your cable co. Anything else is a lucky bonus because you never know how long you'll have them.

Well, I don't have to be told a third time. No D* for me. I can't get regular D* let along HD. We traveled all over our property line, even line sighted from our neighbors dish and there is just no where I can put the dish on my property.

The guy really tried. He said he doesn't get paid if there is no install. He did say he might be able to set it up on this one tree in my front yard but he couldn't do that on duty, it would have to be under the table. I said no. So I've got TW coming out to see if there is anything they can do to improve my DVR problems, which I doubt they can but will have them take a look.

My DVR problem is it misses programs that are set to record at all times. (no conflict).

It does partial recordings on HD locals even though it appears it is recording the entire show. Premium channels and other HD or standard definition shows are not a problem.

I'm really bummed. He said if I cut down these 4 trees in my back yard I could probably get a signal, but I would also get a pan upside my head from wife.

Generally speaking, not much is available on "in the clear" QAM aside from the local broadcast outlets HD/DT feeds and a handful of other things.

On the now-former Adelphia side of TWC, we get such things as TNTHD, Discovery HD and the HD channel for the Indians and Cavs, along with WKYC's Weather Plus feed, WVIZ's feed of The Ohio Channel and some others.

You're not likely to find CNN/FOX News/MSNBC/etc. in the clear on QAM, though, on any system.

Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?

"I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV…… Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."

Ok. Important question here, what with fall premeires coming soon.... not to mention NFL!

I live downtown with a spectacular view of the lake. Only problem is HDTV OTA reception is nil for cleveland stations. I have been using the Terk HDTVi indoor antenna. I have tried it all over the apartment with no luck (well, on good days, I can pick up Toledo, Detroit, even Canadian stations, but no cleveland)

So, what am I to do? I have pointed all different directions, I have raised the antenna as far as possible, moved it all over, nothing. I am thinking possibly a new antenna.... Any suggestions/local places to buy that are recomended?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?

"I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV…… Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."

1. Don't believe everything you read on line. :)
2. Always post a link so the curious can see for themselves.
3. Inundated is never wrong. :D :D

Ok. Important question here, what with fall premeires coming soon.... not to mention NFL!

I live downtown with a spectacular view of the lake. Only problem is HDTV OTA reception is nil for cleveland stations. I have been using the Terk HDTVi indoor antenna. I have tried it all over the apartment with no luck (well, on good days, I can pick up Toledo, Detroit, even Canadian stations, but no cleveland)

So, what am I to do? I have pointed all different directions, I have raised the antenna as far as possible, moved it all over, nothing. I am thinking possibly a new antenna.... Any suggestions/local places to buy that are recomended?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8211245&&#post8211245) post.

Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 Big deal! Cable channels 2-99 are all SD analog. The true QAM channels begin at 100. They may be "mapped" to their off-air channel numbers on a cable box, however if they are truely digital, they would have a channel number that looks something like "108.1" (similar to the ASTC off-air digital channels, just a higher number).

On TWC-NEO I get all my locals QAM, as well as INHD2, HBO HDP and SHO HDP. There's some other stuff, but it's just SD. However, you have to remap the stuff every so often 'cause the "as well as" stuff can appear and disappear. Oh, and the locals have moved a few times as well. Of course, I'm not complaining-it's free! :)

If I have the laptop out later, I'll list the channels.