Cox, feeds digital copies of most of the analog channels (02-99) to channels 802 to 899, but now Cox encodes most of the stations.

I bet that reviewer WAS seeing the analog channels up to 99, then everything else he talked about was the QAM stuff. It sounds like bad writing or editing to me.

I could very well be wrong (it does happen, Hookbill :D), but I can't recall anyone getting the full complement of digital cable channels on QAM. And most systems are still pushing CNN/MSNBC/FOX News/etc. in analog. They certainly are still doing so here in Northeast Ohio, as far as I know. The only digital "substitution" I've seen or heard about involves the digital/non-HD locals...

Again, I could be wrong.

Well, I don't have to be told a third time. No D* for me. I can't get regular D* let along HD. We traveled all over our property line, even line sighted from our neighbors dish and there is just no where I can put the dish on my property.Not that I'm some sort of expert, but I'm surprised. The signal to the dish is at a very sharp angle. If you looked at my dish, you'd think the house next door was blocking it.

Not that I'm some sort of expert, but I'm surprised. The signal to the dish is at a very sharp angle. If you looked at my dish, you'd think the house next door was blocking it.

We even went to my next door neighbors house (dish) and he said that he could see where the opening was there - so could I. I've just got some huge trees, over 30 feet tall around my property. Couldn't put it out front, side, now where.

He did find a tree that he could hang it on, but of course that is not allowed.

He also offered to do an install on the tree off the books. I said no, if something went wrong what recourse would I have?

He said that he doesn't get paid if he doesn't install so I do believe he did everything possible to try and find a spot. It's just the line of site can't be caught.

really stupid idea, but would E*'s satellite positions work any better?

really stupid idea, but would E*'s satellite positions work any better?

I'm not an expert but a while back I spoke with someone at Radio Shack. According the this person the position of Dish and Direct's satellite are just a degree or so off for reception. They said if I couldn't get Direct, chances are I couldn't get Dish either.

And even if I could I don't want Dish. Too many problems with their copyright on their DVR right now.

I'm stuck. Unless I cut those trees down, and that just isn't going to happen. Even when the new TiVo is released I can't use that because I don't have a land line phone and have no intentions to get one - unless their is a way to dial out by computer. Hmmm...got me thinking.... :cool:

Really ? How do you explain the following review from Audio-Visual Revolution, an online magazine, regarding a new LG HDTV model?

"I took a look at the new LG Electronics 42LB1DR ($3,400), a 42-inch LCD with a 1366 x 768 resolution, built-in HDTV and Clear QAM tuners, a CableCARD slot and a 160-gigabyte DVR capable of storing 15 hours of HDTV or 66 hours of SDTV…… Because this TV has a Clear QAM tuner for digital cable signals, it captured all of my cable channels up to channel 99 (including higher-tiered channels like Comedy Central, CNN, and ESPN), my MusicChoice music-only channels, and even my local HDTV channels."

There's no such thing as a "clear QAM tuner." There are only QAM tuners. Channels that are not transmitted the clear need a CableCard or other yet-to-be-developed technology to decrypt them, by law.

Like others have said here, the channels up to 99 are analog. I think the reviewer needs to review the users manual more closely.
:rolleyes:

From the Tivo web site , it appears you can use phone or internet :


Step two: Choose the phone dialing options or network settings that the DVR will use to connect to the TiVo service:

* For a phone connection, see How Do I Configure Phone Dialing Options?
* For a network connection, see Configuring TCP/IP Settings on My DVR.

Even when the new TiVo is released I can't use that because I don't have a land line phone and have no intentions to get one - unless their is a way to dial out by computer.

To elaborate on what too_many_options said, TiVo used to require dialing out the first time the unit was setup. New software releases no longer require this one time call and can be setup immediately to connect through your home network. So, you could use the TiVo S3 without a phone line.

To elaborate on what too_many_options said, TiVo used to require dialing out the first time the unit was setup. New software releases no longer require this one time call and can be setup immediately to connect through your home network. So, you could use the TiVo S3 without a phone line.

Very cool, but I can't find a release date still. Also I wonder about the cost on this puppy? I'll pay up to 500.00 but no more.

I'm stuck. Unless I cut those trees down, and that just isn't going to happen. Hmmm...got me thinking.... :cool:

Sorry to hear your news Hookbill. Are the trees still in the way even if the dish was installed on the roof?

Very cool, but I can't find a release date still. Also I wonder about the cost on this puppy? I'll pay up to 500.00 but no more.

TiVo said "Second half of 2006." Right now they're in beta testing. Nobody really knows the unit price yet, but some are speculating up to $800.

I'm not an expert but a while back I spoke with someone at Radio Shack. According the this person the position of Dish and Direct's satellite are just a degree or so off for reception. They said if I couldn't get Direct, chances are I couldn't get Dish either.

Not quite true. It all depends on which D* orbital location is blocked. You have to be able to see the "core"orbital location at 101 deg. for D*. E*'s core is at 119 deg. That's a wee bit more than just "a degree or so". The two services share 110 deg., which is 9 degrees from 101 and 119 deg which is 19 degrees from 101. For E* if you can see 110, 119 and either 129 or 61.5 ( 61.5 requires a 2nd dish aimed SE ) you are all set. 129 will have most of the HD locals and the "VOOM" channels. 61.5 also has the VOOM channels. There are parts of the country that cannot see 129, that is partially why 61.5 has duplicate HD channels.

BTW: Charlie Ergen (E*'s CEO and major stock holder) will not go quietly on the TIVO suit. There is specuilation on the DBS boards that E* will buy out TIVO, if necessary, to get out of the current jam they are in.

Sorry to hear your news Hookbill. Are the trees still in the way even if the dish was installed on the roof?

Very much in the way. We tried roof, even went into the woods on my property to see if there was anyplace. The front yard is large but when a tree isn't in the way, the house itself is. :(

TiVo said "Second half of 2006." Right now they're in beta testing. Nobody really knows the unit price yet, but some are speculating up to $800.

Ouch! It's worth it to me but trying to explain it to wife is another story. Since she doesn't see the difference between HD and standard def she thinks if the DVR messes up it's just fine for me to go on the internet and...you know. So long as she doesn't miss the program and the voice tracking is reasonably close, that's all she cares about.

She's also told me the solution to the DVR recording problem is to just record in SD. :eek: Obviously she has some vision problems, may explain why she married me. :D

Current TWC North Canton QAM HD Channels unscrambled (by position on my LG3510a):

80.1 NBC
104.2 ABC
104.3 FOX
108.1 CBS
108.2 UPN
113.2 INHD2
113.7 SHOW HDP
113.62 HBO HDP

PBS feed is still there (80.4), but just color bars.

TWC's new website is a joke. It's actually *worse* than the old Adelphia site. Hard to beleive. I wanted to find out what their packages are for high speed internet. Put in a local zipcode, and it bounces you to an Adelphia page which asks for a zipcode again. Put that in, and it bounces you back to a TWC page that asks for a zipcode and takes you back to the Adelphia page. Ridiculous.

The website is in some aborted state between full TWC, TW "see you soon", and Adelphia.

It's amazing that nobody at these companies ever sits down and does a walk through of how a new customer would approach the website. They're still tied to the tired old business model of call the 1-800 number and speak to an illiterate sales drone.

I went to the Macedonia location to trade in my SA 8300 for the third time the other day. There sat the same person I've seen every time I've been there. She asked me what was wrong, stopped listening after I mentioned the first problem and put the box somewhere (trash?). Then she reached over and grabbed another box (I watched her carefully to make sure she wasn't handing me the same box back) and tuned it in for me.

She mentioned that her 8300 was filling up with two recordings and SHE had returned hers recently as well. :)

I think you have to understand that these changes are going to take time. There is only so far a company can plan when the take over is not certain. I wouldn't expect the web pages to change really until the email and road runner are pulled on line.

But that's just me. :)

But look what they have done in less then a months time. They have a series of commercials in place about the take over. They gave us TNT HD and the Tube. Took away and brought back NFL Network. Taught most of the reps to say "Time Warner". That had to be a major challange considering the majority of them don't speak clear english.

I mean give credit where it is due. :D

At the Macedonia office they have put a banner over the Adelphia sign that says TWC. The parking lot shows a sign for Adelphia customers to park. :rolleyes:

But what's really funny is on the walls at the booth where they have various articles and stuff to look at where it would say Adelphia someone has cut and pasted (literally) the words Time Warner to cover the Adelphia.

Also they do apparently seem to be working off a new system of some sort because they had no trouble locating me by phone number like they did in the past at the office. The couple of times I've called in to CSR though have been different. Sometimes they find me by phone number, sometimes they have to use my address. The CSR told me the "new" system has a glitch in it.

Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).

Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.

2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).

I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.

I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.

My main wants at this point are:

Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)
Solid WB
Solid CBS


Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).

Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.

2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).

I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.

I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.

My main wants at this point are:

Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)
Solid WB
Solid CBS


Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8211245&&#post8211245) post.

Newbie to OTA DTV here, located in Kenmore (IE south akron).

Here is what i have so far, looking for any suggestions to eek out the last couple missing stations.

2 story house, OLD (70's?) UHF/VHF antenna on the roof, 300ohm 2 wire cable to the basement. I put a converter on the 2 wire in the basement, and then ran coax to the computer (HDTV Wonder card).

I am getting 3-5-8 pretty much solid (90% or better). I managed to get WUAB-DT intermittently, with 40-60% strength.

I also manage to get some religious channel, pbs (But its not hd? I thought pbs was) and some spanish channel.

My main wants at this point are:

Solid WUAB-DT (UPN)
Solid WB
Solid CBS


Those all seem to be the same direction and distance according to antennaweb, as the 3 channels I get with great signal. Anyone have any idea why I can't get them tuned in? They show 1 red bar in mce tuner setup.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

First thing, you've really got to get rid of that old 300 ohm twin lead and replace it with RG6 coax cable all the way to the HDTV Wonder. There's also probably some pretty corroded connections up there where the twin lead connects to the antenna.

The "religious" channel and the PBS channel without HD are both transmitted out of Akron (west side near SR 21 & I-76/ US 224). Everything else comes from Parma.

For ch 3 & 19 you will need a VHF antenna, everything else is on UHF. The digital signals are actually on different channels, the ASTC digital tuners map these channels to the numbers they are known by (i.e. 3, 5, 8...).

Here is the list of digital channels that the local stations are actually on:
WKYC 3 is on digital ch 2
WEWS 5 is on digital ch 15
WJW 8 is on digital ch 31
WOIO 19 is on digital ch 10
WUAB 43 is on digital ch 28
WEAO 49 is on digital ch 50

WBNX 55 is not yet on the air in digital. When they do sign on they will be on digital ch 30.
WVIZ 25 is on digital ch 26, however they are on a temporary tower with very low power (99 watts). I can just barely get them 3 miles from the temporary site, and then only if I move my antenna to a place where I get their signal at the expense of many of the other channels. Ironically they do broadcst in HD, unlike WEAO.

The "religious chanel" is TBN ch 17 (digital 39). It's actually 5 SD channels on one signal!

You may also want to try to get WKBN out of Youngstown (ch 27, digital 41). Come football season that channel will be a valuable addition, since it's both a CBS HD feed ans a FOX SD on it's subchannel (WYFX). Last season there were different games carried on WKBN and WYFX than wht WOIO and WJW carried for some weeks of the regular season. WKBN-DT is a very strong signal, I get it 24/7 up here in Parma.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I am not too big into football, and all the signals i want to get are out of parma, i guess i was mainly curious why some came in so clear and strong, and some not at all.

Perhaps its the poor cable i have, i will look into replacing that. I may be moving in a couple of months though, so I am leery of putting too much money into this, and moving soon.

I am real happy with the signal i get, so maybe i will try cleaning connections, and going from there.

I have 2 splitters, and a 2 wire to coax adapter in the basement, all to get up to the pc. Any chance these are the problem? I could get a single cable and make the run that way if it would help any.

Less splitters. Better cable. That's probably half of your battle. WUAB-DT is reasonably full powered and in the Parma antenna farm, so you shouldn't have much difficulty catching it.

As far as TWC/Adelphia goes...as I've said here before, right now consider the former Adelphia system the same system with a TWC sign on it. :D We won't see much change until later this year...

Probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.

TitanTV is listing WBNX 55.1 in their schedule, is this a sign that it's about to go online, or is it just a mistake?

And another thing, will PBS 45/49 ever do HD again?

I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.

The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.

For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.

I finally see an HD live game on the NFL network, (Jets/Giants) and there is NO Dolby 5.1? WTF?????

Now I don't care if TW does dump them.

I apologize for not watching the Browns, but football does look so good in HD.

But look what they have done in less then a months time. They have a series of commercials in place about the take over. They gave us TNT HD and the Tube. :D

Well, TNT HD is stretched oblong most of the time when I tune in; I tune away immediately. The Tube is not in high definition. TWC added a bunch more useless free "In Demand" channels; most of the new ones are basically commercials (GM Showroom?), and the rest of them are the same repeats that have been listed there for months. Also, some of these listings are empty categories. On many of the others, and ALSO on the premium In Demand channels (HBO, Showtime, etc.), the listings disappear when they expire, and they aren't being replaced with new stuff. When I called about this, the rep said that the declining number of HBO In Demand listings was caused by HBO. Uh-uh; not true; all of the on-demand listings are going down in number.

I assume none of the "On demand" channels are HD. Is this correct? I thought is was ironic the Little League game today was in great looking HD and the Browns, from a production standpoint, looked like (and sounded like) a high school Friday night game. I did see a glimpse of a game last week on ESPN in HD and agree with Hookbill; football in HD looks awesome.

Well, TNT HD is stretched oblong most of the time when I tune in; I tune away immediately.

I'm kind of wondering when you tune in to TNT-HD. Sometimes I catch an old episode of Law & Order and that's in HD, not stretched with 5.1 sound. Also really good shows like "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD as well.

Matter of fact I think every time I've tuned to TNT-HD it's had an HD program on.

I'm kind of wondering when you tune in to TNT-HD. Sometimes I catch an old episode of Law & Order and that's in HD, not stretched with 5.1 sound. Also really good shows like "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD as well.

Matter of fact I think every time I've tuned to TNT-HD it's had an HD program on.

Sometimes it is hard to notice, but quite a bit of the programing on TNT-HD is stretched. Lots of the old Law & Order shows are stretched. Many of the movies I expect would be HD are stretched. To me TNT-HD is quite a disappointment, I really think if the movies can't be OAR, more should at least be tilt and scan rather than pan and scan + stretch.

I don't mean to assume, but if you're new to TNT-HD most of their content is stretched in a "fish eye" manner. So the center of the frame remains fairly unchanged while the edges are stretched more than normal.

I don't mean to assume, but if you're new to TNT-HD most of their content is stretched in a "fish eye" manner. So the center of the frame remains fairly unchanged while the edges are stretched more than normal.

Fair enough, I am new to TNT-HD and most of the L&O that I've seen are the newer ones. I'm certain though that "Save" and "The Closer" are in HD.

Also every L&O I have seen is 5.1 dolby. That's a plus in my book.

In my mind the big disappointment is The Discovery Channel. While their HD is spectacular, their programming sucks.

TheBlackNight:
Certain weather conditions will indeed bring in the Toledo channels 11 and 13 analog and rarely some digital. Last night both 11 and 13 were very good.

JJK

Probably doesn't mean anything, but I thought I'd bring it up anyways.

TitanTV is listing WBNX 55.1 in their schedule, is this a sign that it's about to go online, or is it just a mistake?



I noticed this also. Not sure if they are broadcasting yet as I don't have an OTA HD tuner, but it more than likely means that WBNX is feeding guide data in preparation for the digital launch, which I'm assuming is going to occur soon based on TitanTV's data. Can anyone with an OTA tuner do a re-scan and check if WBNX DT 55.1 (CH 30) appears?

Since we were talking about it I'd thought I point out there is someone who says they work for Best Buy and is saying the TiVo Series 3 is coming on Sept. 17. He has the price at 799.99. Read it here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=716163) . I don't know if it's true or not.

I noticed this also. Not sure if they are broadcasting yet as I don't have an OTA HD tuner, but it more than likely means that WBNX is feeding guide data in preparation for the digital launch, which I'm assuming is going to occur soon based on TitanTV's data. Can anyone with an OTA tuner do a re-scan and check if WBNX DT 55.1 (CH 30) appears?

Not there yet 10:08PM on Aug 27th 2006

And another thing, will PBS 45/49 ever do HD again?

Yes. PBS 45 & 49 is anxious to restart HD OTA broadcasting on both our digital stations. Although we are getting closer to that capability it is still months away.

Don Freeman
Chief Operating Officer
PBS 45 & 49

I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.

The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.

For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.
This "Lakeshore DX" is quite common this time of year when there is a stationary front in the area. My in-laws live near the lakeshore in Erie, PA and often get high-UHF channels from Toronto stronger than some of the locals.

I figured when Channel three started a HD news broadcast the problems with forgeting to reset the switcher for HD programs would go away. WRONG! Checking a recording of Law & Order after the Browns game it was messed up with a totally useless letterbox for more than half the show. I don't know how or why this happens. I assume that it has to do with not enough HD (16x9) monitors in the control room. Even so, this seems so amazingly obvious. There is no mystery when something is in HD or not, or when something is stretched to fit or when TNT uses that terrible "stretch on the side and keep the center" processor. I'm happy to have TNT on the HD schedule and do enjoy their shows done in actual HD but it's not like it is difficult to tell the difference. It seems to me the first rule of broadcasting is to look at the over the air monitor once in a while and when you're done with the football game you put things back the way they were supposed to be. Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end? Next time I'll check OTA.

Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end?
Extremely doubtful. All TWC does is modulate the signal that is given to them by the local broadcaster so they have very little to no control over the content of the stream.

Thanks, Terry. That was pretty much what I thought.

I figured when Channel three started a HD news broadcast the problems with forgeting to reset the switcher for HD programs would go away. WRONG! Checking a recording of Law & Order after the Browns game it was messed up with a totally useless letterbox for more than half the show. I don't know how or why this happens. I assume that it has to do with not enough HD (16x9) monitors in the control room. Even so, this seems so amazingly obvious. There is no mystery when something is in HD or not, or when something is stretched to fit or when TNT uses that terrible "stretch on the side and keep the center" processor. I'm happy to have TNT on the HD schedule and do enjoy their shows done in actual HD but it's not like it is difficult to tell the difference. It seems to me the first rule of broadcasting is to look at the over the air monitor once in a while and when you're done with the football game you put things back the way they were supposed to be. Maybe this is happening at the Time Warner end? Next time I'll check OTA.

I always call them and ask for master control when this happens to remind them that they didn't cut back. Now most every station in town will thank you for it, immediately cut from the SD downconverter back to the HD stream. Recently the three folks will get bitchy and tell you to never call that number again.

Recently the three folks will get bitchy and tell you to never call that number again.

My response: "Fine, do your job so I don't have to."

Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?

My response: "Fine, do your job so I don't have to."

Of course, flipping the HD/SD switch is not the job of the newsroom folks. They just get the calls because there's no off-hours engineering phone number available to the public.

That doesn't excuse them being "bitchy" and telling people to never call again. I'd drop a note to the GM of the station if that happened to me.

There's no excuse for station personnel to lay into a caller, even if it's for something like this... and WKYC is now promoting its HD newscasts at every drop, so they should pay better attention to the HD feed!

Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?

Doubtfull. They are both syndicated shows and WEWS doesn't even do there news in HD yet and that's their big claim to fame.

Speaking of game shows, sure would be nice to see Amazing Race or Survivor in HD. Those shows would really look great.

Does anyone know if WEWS-DT will be showing the above programs in HD on or about 9/11/06?
You have to be kidding! The 7:00-8:00 PM time block was supposed to be for local programming. Insted, we get network programming pre-empted after 8 PM. They hardly ever pre-empt Wheel and Jeopardy (except for that "Com-Media" special several years ago where every station in town got together and ran the same live program simultaneously, I believe it was in response to 9/11).

As far as I'm concerned, if you seen one "wheel" you have seen them all, Wheel in HD, give me a break. What a waste of bandwidth.

I'm sorry, but this hit a nerve with me. I blame these "sacred cow" syndicated programs for getting around an FCC requirement for locally produced public interest programming.

It's no wonder E* got in trouble for providing distant network affilliates. When you have local stations that would rather pre-empt ABC or NBC programming for what could have been run in the 7-8 slot, you get no sympathy from me if you want to see Vanna White in HD.

I had an interesting digital DX catch this morning. Actually, I have to give credit to the wife for this. About 7:00, she was tuning around looking for some Sat morning cartoons for our daughter. She accidentally punched "29" into the remote and up popped a channel with cartoons. The PSIP info on the channel was WGTE-DT, channel 30-1. A quick internet search reveals that this is a Toledo PBS affiliate, analog channel 30, digital 29.

The interesting thing is that this is not a particularly powerful digital station - the FCC database indicates a power of only 49.5 kW from their digital stick. I have noticed throughout this week that signals seem to be strong from that direction. I have noticed some of the Toledo analogs coming through in the late evenings. Never was able to capture a Toledo digital - and then the wife does by accident! Actually, after looking at the FCC database, this is probably the only Toledo digital that we have a realistic shot at. It looks like most of their digitals are on channels that are being used by Northeast Ohio digitals or analogs - 5, 17, 19, 46, and 49.

For those of you interested in this sort of thing, you may want to try looking for Detroit digitals tonight - try channels 14, 21, 41, 44 and 58 (21 and 41 might be tough with Y-town stations on those channels). Of course, that's assuming that the atmospheric conditions are right tonight.


It's a common thing this time of year. Some odd digitals I've received were WKBW-DT 38 from Buffalo and WOUB-DT 27 from Athens here in Akron. This type of atmospheric condition, known as tropospheric propagation, isn't just limited to markets that surround northeast Ohio. I've seen some strange analog stations from Chicago, Florida, and Texas. In fact, it was just a few weeks ago that I turned my FM radio on to get numerous stations from the Texas area of the country (a lot of spanish). I haven't seen this happen as frequently with digital.

Speaking of radio, there are local stations that are now broadcasting HD radio. I did some research on this. It's basically radio's switch to digital. The radios are still overpriced, and I'm assuming that they will decrease with time.

has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!

has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!

Is the new Directv MPEG4 capable HD DVR available now? How much does it cost? Do they have a lease plan for it or do you still have to buy it?

it will be soon, I have heard Mid sept, beginning of October, The lease cost is 299 upfront then I think 6 a month, but if you have the Hr10-250 they swap them out for free. and you cant buy the HR20-700 yet

has anyone checked with CBS to see when they will be up and running on Directv, thats the only thing that is holding me back from upgrading to the New HD Dvr as soon as possible!

It is running on D*. Just not locally here in Cleveland. Raycom takes their time before they make a deal. It took a while before we got it on cable.

Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.

Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.

It is running on D*. Just not locally here in Cleveland. Raycom takes their time before they make a deal. It took a while before we got it on cable.

Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.

Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.

I hope your wrong :) I keep hearing sept, and I really want to upgrade as of right now I am missing STO in HD, and will miss the cavs in HD as Directv put those channels up :( I really want to get this upgrade done! by the way anyone have the AT9 on the roof? thats the only place it can go on my property....I know directv made these things for roof installs, justmakes me nervous!

Tropo Info::

Hi,
Been outta touch w/ the board fer a while, but was pleased to see the OTA DX posts!

Tropo has been reaching significant levels of late. Try the URL below for info. The directive
characteristics of a Yagi style antenna tend to work well to NULL out adjacent channel or on channel interferance. The Main "Lobe" has maximum gain, signals off the back have maximum loss . So from my location the Toledeo/Detroit vs Y'town works well.


http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Just curious if any folks here are into HD DVD or Blu-Ray? I hang out in both the HD DVD and Blu-Ray forums. Just curious if there are any like minded folks nearby.
I live in Brook Park with a 52" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p, Toshiba HD-A1 DVD, Denon 3910 DVD, Dish Network ViP211 HD receiver.

Just curious if any folks here are into HD DVD or Blu-Ray? I hang out in both the HD DVD and Blu-Ray forums. Just curious if there are any like minded folks nearby.
I live in Brook Park with a 52" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p, Toshiba HD-A1 DVD, Denon 3910 DVD, Dish Network ViP211 HD receiver.
I have the HD-A1 and love it. And believe it or not I grew up in Brook Park on Richard Dr.

I have an antenna on the SW corner of my house (I live 20 miles east of downtown Cleveland) and a booster that came with it. I can get Fox, UPN, and ABC from Cleveland but nothing else from Cleveland comes in. I do however get 4 stations from Youngstown (40 miles east of me..."through" the house) and 2 from Akron/Canton 30 miles south.

I tried turning off the booster, but it just makes the Youngstown channels go away.

Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.

WKYC and WOIO are VHF, the others are all UHF.

My first question is do you have a UHF/VHF antenna?

WKYC and WOIO are VHF, the others are all UHF.

My first question is do you have a UHF/VHF antenna?

It says VHF/UHF but of all the stations I receive, most are UHF. Only a few are VHF. Is there some consideration that must be made for VHF? Better antenna, more boost, higher, vertical/horizontal, etc?

It seems weird to get 95% from a channel down the street from one I dont receive at all.

Don't forget, you can try and talk the D* reps into giving you the networks from L.A. and/or N.Y. You can get those in HD with out waiting for the HR-20. I have heard it will be either October or November for those units. Also keep in mind that they do not have TiVo based software, so there are many who are not willing to trade out ther old units.

Had I been able to get a signal I would have attempted to get the networks from the right and left coast. I was successful in Kentucky even though I was only 15 miles from Cincinatti. I would not have upgraded to the HR-20.
It's much tougher today to talk D* into giving you any distant networks unfortunately as SHEVRA requires waivers on everything today. I was only able to sign up for Fox-East as our Fox local is a Fox Owned & Operated so they'll sign a waiver allowing it - D* did submit waivers for me for the other big 3, but they were denied. That was prior to D* offering any Cleveland HD locals though - not sure if you can still sign up for that since the MPEG4 additions.

Anyway, you can try, but I think you're chance of success nowadays for getting any national network feeds other than Fox-East is asymptotically approaching zero.

I'm taking a wait and see approach on the HR-20 before I give up my Tivos. I doubt I'll consider it at all until the antenna input is active. Today all I'm missing is the RSN's in HD & given how often the Cavs are on nationally this year, that may not be too painful until next Indians season...

Once D* starts rolling out new nationals only in MPEG4 will be when the temptation to give up the Tivos will be highest - hopefully by then the HR-20 is getting glowing reviews, or they've given up and brought back Tivo to do MPEG4 (a guy can dream)...

Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.
My experience with receiving OTA on my Terk HDTVi from Akron is that WKYC and WOIO are extremely fussy about the VHF part of the antenna (ie the angle and length), the difficulty is that they are on near opposite ends of the VHF. It's not too hard to manage to get one, but getting both takes time and finesse.

Well, what antenna do you have?

I have the Channel Master 3018 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3018) and pick up the following channels with no problems 80-90% (though sometimes 3 and 19 give me problems), no pre-amp, just the antenna:

3.1, 3.2
5.1
8.1
17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5
19.1
43.1, 43.2
50.1, 50.2, 50.3
61.1
67.1

I live about 7 miles west of Canton (about 30-45 miles from the towers)

My guess is there is something wrong with the VHF element of your antenna.

It says VHF/UHF but of all the stations I receive, most are UHF. Only a few are VHF. Is there some consideration that must be made for VHF? Better antenna, more boost, higher, vertical/horizontal, etc?

It seems weird to get 95% from a channel down the street from one I dont receive at all.
The lower the channel/frequency the larger the elements have to be.
For WKYC you need an 8' long element to lock-in ch-2. A booster will not help (in fact it may hinder) your reception.

You must be on high ground to get all 4 Youngstown signals (when you say 4 "Youngstown" channels, I presume one of them is WNEO-45. thee are only 3 commercial stations in Youngstown - two of them currently run a second channel on a subchannel with a 3rd on the way). Here in Parma I can only get WKBN-DT 24/7, the others come and go with the changes in the atmosphere. I also get WFMJ-TV (i.e. analog) 24/7 but it's digital is spotty. They are supposed to increase their transmitter power soon, however it still will not compair to the power "superstation WKBN-DT" is using today.

I live in north Akron at the top of the Merriman valley. The towers in Parma are almost a clear site from here, and as a result, all analog and digitals from Cleveland come in very good. I used to live in another part of Akron where the channels were very reliant upon the placement of my silver sensor antenna. Even though I get flawless reception from the Cleveland channels through analog, WKYC-DT and especially WOIO-DT are very fussy. The problem is that they cannot broadcast at a higher VHF power than they are currently due to many surrounding market analog VHFs. Hopefully this can be fixed when analog is obsolete.

The main problem I have with the Akron digitals such as WDLI and WEAO is that I have to battle the multipath and "ghosty" analog signals. For some reason, I don't have that problem with any Cleveland station. I don't receive anything from Youngstown here, except for a bleep of signal from WKBN-DT.

Is there a strength problem with some stations in Cleveland like NBC WKYC and CBS WOIO? My other cleveland stations come in at 95%, Akron at 78%, and Youngstown at 65%...as viewed through my Sony A2000 tuner.

At 20 miles east of Cleveland, I figure that puts you outside of I-271. If you are closer to the lakeshore, say somewhere out in Lake or Geagua Counties, you may be getting interference on WOIO-DT from the channel 10 analog across the lake in London, Ontario. It is because of this channel 10 analog that WOIO-DT has to operate at fairly low power (I think they are at about 10 kW?). WKYC-DT is notoriously difficult for a lot of people to receive because of low power and channel position (channel 2 is prone to all kinds of electrical interference).

At 20 miles east of Cleveland, I figure that puts you outside of I-271. If you are closer to the lakeshore, say somewhere out in Lake or Geagua Counties, you may be getting interference on WOIO-DT from the channel 10 analog across the lake in London, Ontario. It is because of this channel 10 analog that WOIO-DT has to operate at fairly low power (I think they are at about 10 kW?). WKYC-DT is notoriously difficult for a lot of people to receive because of low power and channel position (channel 2 is prone to all kinds of electrical interference).

WOIO-DT is only 3.5 kW on upper VHF. I've always found their signal to be the most fussy. Take for example WSYX-DT in Columbus which broadcasts at 59 kW on channel 13. Their coverage map is very good for that area. Check it out...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT674641.html

Has anyone with TWC-NEO been having trouble with ESPN2HD and NFLHD recently? My problem is that the picture becomes pixelated and the sound gets wacky. These are the only channels I am having trouble with. This is not a good time of the year for these channels to become flaky. I am hoping to confirm that the problem is through TWC and not on my end.

Well, NFLHD will be disappearing on Sunday unless something major happens. I know last night ESPN2HD had some network problems for part of the 6:00 football game.

I changed to one of those typical huge antennas (the rooftop models with all the spikes) and put it in my attic. With it I was able to get 3 and 19 (Cleveland VHF) without any problems, coverage around 95%.

I was also able to turn it with a lot of trial and error to pick up Youngstown stations at about 75%, and several from Akron/Canton at 85%. I know I didn't get all Youngstown stations. If I remember correctly it was 21.1, 27.1, 27.2, and a few PBS. I was able to get 33.1 for short periods, nothing substantial. Other Youngstown stations were typically 33% and unusable. Youngstown seemed most effected by a booster. I added 20dB to get some better. I will try a few more DB sometime to see if that helps during bad weather, high atmosphere, etc.

The signals are pretty fussy about antenna position. I ended up "pointing" it North (and down) such that the Cleveland VHF signals were good from the West and Youngstown was still good coming from SE. Antennas seem like a lot of voodoo, but my personal opinion is that a large size and variable booster make the most difference.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6368218.html?display=Breaking+News

Well, NFLHD will be disappearing on Sunday unless something major happens. I know last night ESPN2HD had some network problems for part of the 6:00 football game.

OMW (http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/) says that we may get a day or two extra, but it looks pretty hopeless as of right now. In fact the NFL Network is saying that TW is no longer talking to them. Since no live games are being broadcast until Thanksgiving that puts TW in the drivers seat at this time.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6368218.html?display=Breaking+News


My My. How quickly things can change. :)

The problem is that they cannot broadcast at a higher VHF power than they are currently due to many surrounding market analog VHFs. Hopefully this can be fixed when analog is obsolete. Don't hold your breath waiting for analog to become obsolete. Canada has a long way to go to convert to digital OTA, consequently CFPL-TV 10 will be there for years to come. Why Raycom wants to put WOIO-DT permanently on ch-10 is beyond reason. They (WOIO) managed to bump Columbus' WBNS-TV pemmanant digital assignment off ch 10. WBNS was on the air for decades before WOIO. What kind of clout did Raycom have at the FCC? All this to put CBS back on VHF in Cleveland?

Thankfully I get WKBN-DT 24/7. I'l get my CBS from them while I watch the WOIO tower lights blink out my back window.

Why Raycom wants to put WOIO-DT permanently on ch-10 is beyond reason. They (WOIO) managed to bump Columbus' WBNS-TV pemmanant digital assignment off ch 10. WBNS was on the air for decades before WOIO. What kind of clout did Raycom have at the FCC? All this to put CBS back on VHF in Cleveland?

Lower transmitter operating cost, I presume - much cheaper on VHF than UHF.

I believe one of the Cincy stations has a final digital assignment on CH10 as well, so WBNS would have gotten bumped off CH10 anyway, since digital assignments have priority over analogs.

Wish I could get WKBN here.

WOIO-DT is only 3.5 kW on upper VHF. I've always found their signal to be the most fussy. Take for example WSYX-DT in Columbus which broadcasts at 59 kW on channel 13. Their coverage map is very good for that area. Check it out...

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT674641.html
The best reason to be on upper VHF for digital broadcasting is that you get better coverage with less power. That may be another reason Raycom wanted ch 10 for WOIO.

It's too bad that they want to abandon 19. With WKYC going to 17 and WEWS on 15 it would have been a neat package for those of us who receive Cleveland locals OTA.

Lower transmitter operating cost, I presume - much cheaper on VHF than UHF.

I believe one of the Cincy stations has a final digital assignment on CH10 as well, so WBNS would have gotten bumped off CH10 anyway, since digital assignments have priority over analogs.

Wish I could get WKBN here.
Have you seen WKBN-DT's coverage map? Depending how far "SW of Cleveland" you are you may be inside the coverage area! The coverage area extends all the way to Strongsville and Medina. All you need is to be on failry high ground with a clear view to the ESE. Youngstown is only a few miles south of rt 82 (which extends to nearly the PA border).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Have you seen WKBN-DT's coverage map? Depending how far "SW of Cleveland" you are you may be inside the coverage area! The coverage area extends all the way to Strongsville and Medina. All you need is to be on failry high ground with a clear view to the ESE. Youngstown is only a few miles south of rt 82 (which extends to nearly the PA border).
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

I'm in NW Medina county, in NE Litchfield township (a good 8 miles WNW of the Medina square). While I have a clear shot at the Parma transmitters (and can get all the Cleveland digitals at 100%, except WVIZ of course), stations to the east are blocked by the higher ground of Richfield/Bath, which is 200-300 feet higher elevation than I am. Even the Akron transmitters are weak, although I get a solid lock on WEAO-DT. If I swing the antenna to the east, I can barely get a lock on WDLI (not that I care about their programming). I've never gotten more than 30% from WOAC-DT.

When there is strong tropo, I can get analog WFMJ a little, and I've gotten a lock on WKBN-DT a couple of times (oddly, I could not get WKBN analog at all at that time). Normally, they do not even light up the signal meter, although I suppose if I put up a huge antenna pointed east, I might have a shot.

Never gotten even a peep out of WFMJ-DT (and needless to say WYTV, analog or digital), even when I could get analog Ch40 from London (which is very common during the summer), 24 from Erie, and even WNED/17 analog from Buffalo a couple of times!

It looks like you are right on the edge of the WKBN-DT coverage area. Perhaps a 100' tower would help. Then again Youngstown migh be just a little bit farther south than Richfield from your POV.

Richfield/Bath blocks the Akron stations for most of Cuyahoga County as well. I wonder why that area did not become the antenna farm for both Cleveland and Akron stations. It's at the midway point between the two cities. Having Cleveland transmitters in Richfield would put more signal to the south and less over Lake Erie.

You know tropo is strong if you can get WYTV. I usually get a couple Pittsburgh digital stations on those occasions. I get WFMJ analog almost anytime (usualy snowy with interference from WOIO), but the digital is spotty. I get WKBN-DT 24/7 but analog 27 is weaker than 21. Forget 33, analog or digital, they are the weakest "full power" station around these parts.

Richfield/Bath blocks the Akron stations for most of Cuyahoga County as well. I wonder why that area did not become the antenna farm for both Cleveland and Akron stations. It's at the midway point between the two cities. Having Cleveland transmitters in Richfield would put more signal to the south and less over Lake Erie.

Could be that the transmitters would then be too far south from Lake and Ashtabula counties to provide decent coverage there, or maybe the studio-to-transmitter links couldn't reach that far from downtown Cleveland back in the 50's (or earlier) when the Parma transmitters were put up. Who knows.

Multichannel and Jtscherne are correct. NFL Network will be on the air til Sept. 15th. BTW, does anyone know why they do not format 16:9 for 90% of their programming. If they intend to do 4:3 for their live games, then I won't be watching anyway.

Also I got wind that former Adelphia systems will be getting Universal HD soon. I will post when I get the date.

Hey guys....anyone hear any news about D* and their plans for MPEG4 locals for Cleveland? I'm waiting to make the move to MPEG4, but if i hear that the locals are going there soon, it may expedite my move!! Thanks!

Hey guys....anyone hear any news about D* and their plans for MPEG4 locals for Cleveland? I'm waiting to make the move to MPEG4, but if i hear that the locals are going there soon, it may expedite my move!! Thanks!

Local stations are now available in HD in the Cleveland area on D* but the DVR is not. The HR-20 is suppose to be released soon. If you don't want a DVR you can get it now, you don't have to wait for the HR-20.

The HR-20 is now on available for preorders via BestBuy.com for $399+tax and shipping OR from Value Electronics for $299+zero tax and free shipping. Robert from VE says they will start shipping out on 9/13 (I have one on order from him). As far as the MPEG4 locals thru D* CBS is not yet available. Raycom probably wants CBS and the soon to be MyNetwork grouped in the agreement. Damn them. One more thing about that HR-20. The built in OTA tuners will NOT be activated until sometime in October. They will be activated via a software download.

I hope your wrong :) I keep hearing sept, and I really want to upgrade as of right now I am missing STO in HD, and will miss the cavs in HD as Directv put those channels up :( I really want to get this upgrade done! by the way anyone have the AT9 on the roof? thats the only place it can go on my property....I know directv made these things for roof installs, justmakes me nervous!

Yep I have my AT9 on the right front corner of my roof. Don't be nervous about it.

Update on the CBS19/Directv HD Situation....Grrrrrrrrr

Dear Mr. Sholtis:

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please be advised that cable systems and satellite carriers must seek
permission every three years to carry the analog and digital signals of
the broadcast stations in their respective markets. To date, we have
not arrived at agreements with DirecTV.

We have been advising our viewers that they may wish to contact the
satellite carrier directly (as you indicated in your e-mail) and express
their concern and request for digital carriage of our stations.

In the meantime, our corporate office is working to bring these
agreements to conclusion. Until such time, your patience and viewer
loyalty are much appreciated.


Sincerely,
Programming Dept.
WOIO/WUAB


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Sholtis
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:35 PM
To: Applegate, Bill
Subject: HD signal via Directv

Mr Applegate:
As a subscriber to Directv who gets my HD signals thru their service,
I've been distressed to see that CBS 19 has still not come
up with an agreement with them for the CBS HD signal. With the NFL
season days away it is particularly disappointing to say the
least. I would have expected an agreement by now seeing they have
been offering local into local HD service since the end of June as
you are the only major station in town still not offered. Is there
any indication when or even IF an agreement will be made with
them. What could the hold up be? Could it relate to a tie-in with
MyNet43? I truly hope an agreement can be reached soon and I shall
be contacting Directv as well.

Thank you
Dan Sholtis

The best reason to be on upper VHF for digital broadcasting is that you get better coverage with less power. That may be another reason Raycom wanted ch 10 for WOIO.


But the better coverage theory is negated by the fact that they have to operate at super low power in order to protect the London, Ontario analog on channel 10. They may be able to boost the power somewhat in Feb 2009 when US analog channels are shut off, but they will still have to protect CFPL indefinitely. Who knows when the Canadians will shut down their analog signals? I did a quick search of the FCC database the other day, and I could not find another "full-power" digital operating on channel 10 at such a low power level!

Given that we are talking about Raycom, I am convinced that they deliberately chose to stay on channel 10 after analog shutoff in order to lower operating costs. Would that really suprise anyone here? :rolleyes:

The FCC really screwed up in the original digital assignments by sticking Cleveland with a channel 10 (and channel 2, but that is a different story). Unfortunately, Raycom has chosen to perpetuate the problem past the analog shutoff date when they could have improved the situation.

sorry guys...lol...I meant dish when i said d*...got my nicknames incorrect i guess!! Anyone with any info on that?

On Friday, I moved to a new apartment about only 200 feet from my old location. I'm surprised that I can't get the Cleveland stations as well as I used to. They used to come in perfectly, but now I have to battle multipath and ghosty analogs. I can now get WFMJ analog, which I couldn't get at all before. However, that is the only Youngstown station I can get (not even WKBN-DT is above the minimum point at which I can receive it). I like my silver sensor because it is a good indoor directional antenna, but I can't use an outdoor. Does anyone know of a good directional indoor (maybe an attic) antenna that may be comparable or better than the silver sensor?

Would somebody with a OTA tuner check this? I'm getting digital interference patterns on channel 30 on my analog set and I think this is the only station it could possibly be.

Just scanned, nothing new came up.

EDIT: One interesting note is that I got an e-mail back from them (I asked among other things when their HD would be up) I was told they are in the process of installing their new HD equipment, but they couldn't provide a date for when it would go live.

So, it's probably very close now.

Hmm, I wonder if they were doing an on-air test before it goes live permanently? It is also possible that its just a fluke on my part. I'm here in Cambridge, Ohio and its at least 90 air miles to the transmitter site. So it may just be my eyes playing tricks on me.

Just scanned, nothing new came up.

So, it's probably very close now.

It could mean it's not even close now as well. We just don't know. All I know is the sooner they get it going hopefully the faster TW will sign it up for us who do not use OTA.

True, but the e-mail I got this afternoon seems to enforce the idea that they are close.

can someone with roadrunner tell me what speeds they are getting up and down? just wondering, because after my directv/att contract is up (end of football season) I will be taking advantage of time warners triple play, my wife got an email from time warner, and we both think its smart to save a little money a month with her current job situation.

can someone with roadrunner tell me what speeds they are getting up and down? just wondering, because after my directv/att contract is up (end of football season) I will be taking advantage of time warners triple play, my wife got an email from time warner, and we both think its smart to save a little money a month with her current job situation.

I'm old Adelphia, now TW but I doubt it will make much difference. I'm showing 4036 kbps up and 874.5 kbps down. I use the highest speed they offer.

In my mind it's hard to believe that cable can ever be cheaper then satellite. Check those offers for the asterisk which says for 6 months or 4 months. Prices jump after that. Also find out which RR sevice they are offering.

In their commercials that they have now they are offering phone, cable, and road runner lite for 99 bucks. Huh? To really have dependable VoIP you should have at least the second highest speed, imho.

well right now I pay right around 34.99 for directv's package, or digital channels plus locals, then I pay 4.99 for a box, 4.99 for a box, 5.99 for dvr service, 5,99 for insurance, and right around 5.62 bucks for taxes, and 10.95 or whatever it is for HD service= so I pay 88.52 just for directvs, lowest channel set, plus HD


Phone is 49.95 a month, plus a dollar or 2 for taxes

and internet, for att, which I was promised 3 megs down, and only get 1 meg as I am outside their border, but they said I could upgrade and didnt deliever, and told me after the contract was signed, is 17 a month and that includes taxes.

all that equals 157.47 a month, that is without premiums, which we have Hbo and showtime, add another 20 on. and lets not forget that big 299 they want me to pay to upgrade. those are all my extras that I wont include


now for 127.80 I get digital channels, internet, and phone, plus a digtial converter, which I will choose a HD DVR, and dont forget the 5.99 dvr charge, plus 6.95 a month for HD, and another Digital box, plus taxes.....oh and I get free HBO okay so for the first 18 months I will be saving when I am on satellite buy back, but when that goes away I will be getting about the same price as I am paying now, but it will be faster internet, and better HD, plus a HD DVR that I dont pay 300 for......I wonder where I went wrong in my figuring earlier. I am going to go look at some things I might edit this a bit.

edit #1. its not roadruner lite they are offering I am 100% sure of that and, my satellite buy back program will be for 99 dollars for 18 months, I get road runner, phone, digtal cable, one premium, one box.

edit #2 its 49.99 a month for directvs package, not 34.99 a month ( its late)

I do my phone by Vonage thats about 18 and some change a month. Cable with HBO and MLB which they are not collecting for was 150 and I think that included my internet charge cause it got included in a package.

I'm not certain really, I haven't paid a bill in 9 years. Wife pays the bills. I just kind of peek at it from time to time.

I will say this: imho from what I experienced before from DSL in Cincinnati cable seems to be much and I do mean oh so much more reliable. I think in the two years I've been here it's gone out for more then an hour maybe twice.

I'm old Adelphia, now TW but I doubt it will make much difference. I'm showing 4036 kbps up and 874.5 kbps down. I use the highest speed they offer.


Of course, that's actually the other way around - up vs. down :)

I am using the standard speed, though I'm thinking I'll upgrade. I get usually in the 2000-3000 range down and 512kbps-ish up.

Like you, I'm in the ex-Adelphia region. I think the main TWC system's tiers are different, for now, but most cable companies nudge up the speeds from time to time to be competitive.

I know they're pushing digital phone, and we'll get it soon, but I've been a Vonage customer for about three years now, and love it. There are actually differences between standard bring-your-own VoIP and "Digital Phone", even down to their workings, but it doesn't mean much to me.

And I like the ability to grab my phone adapter and use it anywhere in the world, which I don't think you can do with TWC's in-house offering due to the nature of what it is...

Of course, that's actually the other way around - up vs. down :)

.

Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right! :o Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.

Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right! :o Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.

still better then the 1.2 megs I get down ( 1.5-overhead) and .25 to .5 megs up.

Darn, and I tried so carefully to get that right! :o Yes, its 4036 kbps down and 874.5 kbps up. I think I was tired when I posted that.

How much are you paying for that, anyway? I might move up, and the higher upstream would work well with my Slingbox...

To the OP on this subject, I'm pretty sure the levels we're talking about are the old Adelphia tiers, and that TWC's Akron/Canton-based original system has different ones. But they're probably in roughly the same ballpark, even before they move us ex-Adelphia types over to RoadRunner...

How much are you paying for that, anyway? I might move up, and the higher upstream would work well with my Slingbox...



It's part of a package, in my case iirc it was 5 bucks a month over their high speed mid range. I got it right after I got Vonage installed, but also because my wife is quite a gamer so she wanted it for that purpose as well.

yeah I guess my statement should have read, who with time warner in the akron area, can check their levels.

Also, I am really hoping that when the dust setteles from time warners work (getting switched video up and running on their system, taking over cleveland for cable, etc.) that we will see NFL network, and more HD. I think the hangup with NFL Network is their HD channel, and I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.

Also, I am really hoping that when the dust setteles from time warners work (getting switched video up and running on their system, taking over cleveland for cable, etc.) that we will see NFL network, and more HD. I think the hangup with NFL Network is their HD channel, and I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.

Well, we already have NFL Network in HD and they just don't show that much in HD to begin with. I don't think it has anything to do with bandwith. It has to do with $$. In TW view NFL wants too much money. TW wants to make it part of a sports package which would cost those of you who purchase it more money. Of course don't expect your rates to go down if you do not purchase it. That's the way it should work but won't.

Also we already know that Universal HD is on the way. I would like to see an upgrade in the software for the SA 8300. Seems most folks now have 1.88.xx.x. We are still in the 1.87 version.

I think time warner is waiting for a little more bandwidth, which Switched video should give them plenty, at least plenty to add a couple more channels until 2009 when they reap the benefits of analog shut off.

Analog shut off has little to nothing to do with cable, just OTA.

Does anyone know anything about the signal strength increase of ch32 - WTRF-DT in EHEELING, WV? I've been waiting for this to happen for a while but haven't heard anything lately.

Well, we already have NFL Network in HD and they just don't show that much in HD to begin with. I don't think it has anything to do with bandwith. It has to do with $$. In TW view NFL wants too much money. TW wants to make it part of a sports package which would cost those of you who purchase it more money. Of course don't expect your rates to go down if you do not purchase it. That's the way it should work but won't.

Also we already know that Universal HD is on the way. I would like to see an upgrade in the software for the SA 8300. Seems most folks now have 1.88.xx.x. We are still in the 1.87 version.

correction :) you have NFL network, we orginial Time warner customers, Or soon to be Orginial time warner customers, dont have Nfl Network, thats the one thing that has really kept me with satellite over cable over the years, anyways you are right in the end it does come down to money. Speaking of updates, I would love to see the sa8300 with folders like tivo, directv have, those are nice to have, not neccesary but nice!

Analog shut off has little to nothing to do with cable, just OTA.


I am confused, I thought Analog was taking up all this space on cable. I realize I am only 2 years into the whole HDTV info, with sat/cable only being about a year and half rookie on. But with the analog cable shutoff, that would mean TIme warner would shut off their analog (no more pluggin a RG6 directly into the old tv and getting channels), therefore freeing up TONS of bandwidth, as analog is a bandwidth hog, I could be wrong, and someone explain it to me if you could.

Has anyone read about what will happen to the low power analogs after the transition (the Cat 35/29 for example)?

But with the analog cable shutoff, that would mean TIme warner would shut off their analog (no more pluggin a RG6 directly into the old tv and getting channels), therefore freeing up TONS of bandwidth, as analog is a bandwidth hog, I could be wrong, and someone explain it to me if you could.

The 2009 mandate says analog broadcasts must be turned off. Cable TV is unaffected except for the analog broadcast channels they carried (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, etc :)) which what will happen to them remains undecided.

So you can't just plug an antenna into your NTSC tv/vcr/tuner and expect to get any channels after the shutoff in 2009, but you will still get "almost" all of your analog cable channels. So, again, there is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff.

Yes, analog channels take up lots of room on cable. No, the government is not telling them to get rid of analog channels. Yes, cable companies could drop all analog channels. No, it isn't likely they would do this because it would alienate most of their customers.

The 2009 mandate says analog broadcasts must be turned off. Cable TV is unaffected except for the analog broadcast channels they carried (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, etc :)) which what will happen to them remains undecided.

So you can't just plug an antenna into your NTSC tv/vcr/tuner and expect to get any channels after the shutoff in 2009, but you will still get "almost" all of your analog cable channels. So, again, there is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff.

Yes, analog channels take up lots of room on cable. No, the government is not telling them to get rid of analog channels. Yes, cable companies could drop all analog channels. No, it isn't likely they would do this because it would alienate most of their customers.

I kind of see what your saying but I don't think it makes sense.

Your saying that cable is not affected by the mandatory switch to digital broadcast, however the local stations will no longer broadcast digitally. Therefore those who don't have cable now will have to purchase a digital converter in order to receive OTA signals, or purchase cable.

You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.

I don't think so.

What I think will happen is cable is indeed going to tell it's customers that since digital broadcasting is no longer available you will need to get a digital box to receive cable now. Sorry about that but we will be giving you all these other channels.

I don't see them taking a digital signal and converting it to analog, unless that is what they are already doing with stations like TBS, ESPN, etc. To be honest I'm not sure how they receive these signals so you may have a point.

On the other hand, TW (old Adelphia) offers local stations digitally without hd now. Why would they be doing that unless they are getting ready to convert everyone? And for a while we could see they were testing all their analog stations digitally as well.

And never forget the cable company's golden rule: If you gotta a reason to jack the customer, do it. :)

Could be that the transmitters would then be too far south from Lake and Ashtabula counties to provide decent coverage there, or maybe the studio-to-transmitter links couldn't reach that far from downtown Cleveland back in the 50's (or earlier) when the Parma transmitters were put up. Who knows.

Ashtabula, for sure, would be a loser if the Cleveland stations were to transmit from Richfield, however they should probably be in the Erie or Youngstown DMA anyway. I was just there (Rock Creek) over the holiday weekend. Their reception of ch 3 on cable was terrible. The only signifcantly viewed station was ch 12 out of Erie. Both are NBC, however that does not help when you want to watch an Indians game. The cable system does not carry STO either - not even in their digital tier (yes they have a digital tier). BTW none of the locals were listed in the digital tier (they probably can't receive the digital Cleveland locals OTA anyway). I bet WKBN-DT would come in there, if only I had a ASTC tuner to try it out.

Hmm, I wonder if they were doing an on-air test before it goes live permanently? It is also possible that its just a fluke on my part. I'm here in Cambridge, Ohio and its at least 90 air miles to the transmitter site. So it may just be my eyes playing tricks on me.
Well, I'm right by the WBNX transmitter - I got 0 signal strength last night on my E* 921 when I checked digital ch 30.

I'd be real surprised if you could "see" digital signals on an analog TV. As i said I'm in the heart of the Cleveland antenna farm. My analog Tv has snow on 2, 10, 15 etc., only is a slightly "whiter" snow than the other channels without a digital signal. It's very subtle. You would need to see it to understand the difference.

From Cambridge any ch 30 you see could be from West Virginia or PA before you would see anything from Cleveland. Besides the distance, terrain and the curviture of the earth would prevent you from seeing anything from Cleveland except on days when the skip is up. Here in Parma I get several of the Pittsburgh digitals and occasionally CBC from London Ontario (analog) on ch 40. I never got WOUC, which is from your neck of the woods.

I kind of see what your saying but I don't think it makes sense.

Your saying that cable is not affected by the mandatory switch to digital broadcast, however the local stations will no longer broadcast digitally. Therefore those who don't have cable now will have to purchase a digital converter in order to receive OTA signals, or purchase cable.

You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.

I don't think so.

What I think will happen is cable is indeed going to tell it's customers that since digital broadcasting is no longer available you will need to get a digital box to receive cable now. Sorry about that but we will be giving you all these other channels.

I don't see them taking a digital signal and converting it to analog, unless that is what they are already doing with stations like TBS, ESPN, etc. To be honest I'm not sure how they receive these signals so you may have a point.

On the other hand, TW (old Adelphia) offers local stations digitally without hd now. Why would they be doing that unless they are getting ready to convert everyone? And for a while we could see they were testing all their analog stations digitally as well.

And never forget the cable company's golden rule: If you gotta a reason to jack the customer, do it. :)

A friend of mine who has COX said that COX assured him that the analog service will not go away on cable anytime soon.

It's possible that COX and other cableco's could run a parallel cable should they need the bandwidth that the analog basics take up today. I believe the old Adelphia system in the City of Cleveland had done this years ago (maybe the east suburbs Adelphia as well).

You then say that cable will take the digital signal and offer it in analog form to it's customers.

I'm not sure that I said that anywhere in my post other than to imply it hasn't exactly been decided yet.

Last I knew there is a debate between the NAB and cable companies. If I remember correctly it goes something like this:
The NAB says, "You don't have the right to degrade our signal."
The NCTA says, "But by FCC law, all cable subscribers need to be able to view your channel so we should convert it to analog at the head end."

So, what will happen on cable for these channels remains to be decided. Now channels like ESPN, Comedy Central, etc will remain in analog on cable. So "almost" all of your channels will still be available in analog form.

What I said was, "There is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff" and I firmly stand by that statement.

More recent article on debate between NAB and the NCTA (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6342684.html?display=Policy)

Older article:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html

I am a former Comcast/ now TW customer. I stopped by the Elyria TW office the other day to pick up the latest channel line up list. Looking over the HD lineup it shows The Tube (ch-207) as being HD. It's looks more like analog to me. Also listed is WNEO HD (ch-215) but the on screen guide doesn't show it. Does anyone have any info on this?

Also I noticed on Akron's lineup they have HDNET and HDNET Movies listed. Anyone know if we are going get those added to our HD lineup?

Thanks,
Ben Music

I'm not sure that I said that anywhere in my post other than to imply it hasn't exactly been decided yet.

Last I knew there is a debate between the NAB and cable companies. If I remember correctly it goes something like this:
The NAB says, "You don't have the right to degrade our signal."
The NCTA says, "But by FCC law, all cable subscribers need to be able to view your channel so we should convert it to analog at the head end."

So, what will happen on cable for these channels remains to be decided. Now channels like ESPN, Comedy Central, etc will remain in analog on cable. So "almost" all of your channels will still be available in analog form.

What I said was, "There is no such thing as an analog cable shutoff" and I firmly stand by that statement.

More recent article on debate between NAB and the NCTA (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6342684.html?display=Policy)Older article:
http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6295306.html

Maybe it's just me but I got confused reading those two articles. :confused:

On one hand it said "must convert at head end". On the other it said, "leave it up to cable company."

But apparently the cable company will not force people to purchase digital boxes.

At the very least it means they can downconvert, or they have to cough up the digital box.

There's still a lot of additional TV's in homes that only have analog tuners and are cabled directly with no box. Cable will no doubt continue their analog channels for a while anyway. Many stations fiber their analog video to cable headends and the cable company could downconvert those that don't.

There's still a lot of additional TV's in homes that only have analog tuners and are cabled directly with no box. Cable will no doubt continue their analog channels for a while anyway. Many stations fiber their analog video to cable headends and the cable company could downconvert those that don't.

I would still like to see the cable companies create digital versions of the stations they now offer in analog. FX, USA, SCI-Fi would be much better in digital format for my set.

Right now, Cox Cleveland mirrors most of the Analog Channels (Ch. 2 to 99) with digital copies. But most of the digital channels are encoded.

Does anyone know anything about the signal strength increase of ch32 - WTRF-DT in EHEELING, WV? I've been waiting for this to happen for a while but haven't heard anything lately.


Last I heard they were waiting for the FCC to approve of power upgrade. :mad:

thats strange, because isnt part of the problem, people not wanting to get Digital boxes? or is it that the goverment has to buy DIGITAL OTA TUNERS? if I were time warner, I would say everyone goes digital in 2009, they are hurting for bandwidth, and will fall farther and farther behind satellite, and fios. Well sorta I guess, as I Dont fully understand switched video, but I see it as unlimited bandwidth, if I am wrong there correct me also.

Looking over the HD lineup it shows The Tube (ch-207) as being HD. It's looks more like analog to me. Also listed is WNEO HD (ch-215) but the on screen guide doesn't show it. Does anyone have any info on this?


The Tube is definitely digital and it is definitely NOT HD. It is a digital subchannel on WUAB-DT OTA (channel 43-2). That means that it shares bandwidth with the WUAB-DT main channel. It appears that they typically allocate a pretty small amount of bandwidth to it - you see lots of pixellation and blockiness.

WNEO is part of the WEAO/WNEO PBS 45/49 pair of OTA stations - Akron/Alliance PBS affiliates. PBS 45/49 has not had a HD channel in operation for about a year, due to equipment and money issues. They are braodcasting digitally - but in SD.

thats strange, because isnt part of the problem, people not wanting to get Digital boxes? or is it that the goverment has to buy DIGITAL OTA TUNERS? if I were time warner, I would say everyone goes digital in 2009, they are hurting for bandwidth, and will fall farther and farther behind satellite, and fios. Well sorta I guess, as I Dont fully understand switched video, but I see it as unlimited bandwidth, if I am wrong there correct me also.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first few questions, but the purpose of ending analog broadcasts is to free up broadcast frequencies for other purposes.

See, if I were TWC I would welcome this change and hope that I can convert the digital broadcasts at the head end. That way I can expect a boom in subscribership in the ~$12 range for "lifeline" service which may lead people to subscribe to more packages and higher rates.

Switched Digital Video is a bandwidth savings measure, not "unlimited" bandwidth. The savings can only occur when it is used on lesser viewed channels. I don't know what the exact threshold is, but once X number of people are watching the channel at the same time you might as well make it a regular channel.

my first questions wasnt really a question, but a statement. My understand of the whole argument was this, Poverty, and below poverty people (and the elderly too) were complaining because in 3 years when the shut off happens they arent going to want or afford to buy a 60 dollar tuner to get the new digital signals, also they arent going to be able to afford digital cable, or want digital cable, so they wanted the government to pay for all this, hence the government setting aside millions of dollars to buy these people new digital tuners. Now with Switched video (I know weird/no transition between my arguments :) ) They way I was told it works, is this. My house in Mogadore recieves all 300+ channels right now, they are all broadcast 24/7 on my Rg6, its just a matter of me subscribing and turning to the channel and boom its there. With Switched Video, only the top twenty stations of an area wil be sent down my line and others line (the same twenty stations for everyone). Now lets say Disney isnt on that list, and I want to watch disney cartoons, or whatever. I tune my box to the disney channel, and while I am doing that the box sends a signal to the headend I want that channel, and it sends it back to my box, and 1-2 second delay added to my usual tuning time and boom its there. So baiscally my understanding to it is this, as they add channels, they are not being "broadcast" 24/7 rather I would have to request it to be broadcast to my house, therefore they could add all the channels they want, and they would be fine-where did I go wrong?


Also I hope people on this thread dont mind us talking about this because time warner is doing this now, and it involves all of us.

Also I hope people on this thread dont mind us talking about this because time warner is doing this now, and it involves all of us.

Yeah, it's off topic but it is a local subject and involves a great deal of us.

Anyway we so rarely go off topic around here. :rolleyes:


So your saying, if I can sum it up that low income gets boxes with 20 stations and can request more from the head end. Would they be charged additional if they requested it?

I'm really feeling a little dumb here, guys. I'm having a tough time grasping the info your putting down. So lets say Disney isn't in the top 20. But we know someone somewhere in the area is watching Disney, you can bet on it so it is running 24/7. However stations that arn't popular wouldn't be running and would have to be "requested". Head end would pick this up and start a broadcast for even one person?

I would still like to see the cable companies create digital versions of the stations they now offer in analog. FX, USA, SCI-Fi would be much better in digital format for my set.

Would having the cable company convert the analog signal to digital make it look better? I would have thought that converting analog garbage to digital would result in digital garbage.

Not that I'd complain if it worked. I'd love to have Sci-fi's Stargate & Battlestar look like the Fox digital rebroadcasts. Nice and clean.

Would having the cable company convert the analog signal to digital make it look better? I would have thought that converting analog garbage to digital would result in digital garbage.


Presumably all the non-local channels you see now in cable analog channels 2-99 are picked up by the cable company via satellite and are digital in the first place. So it would be great if you could see all the channels 2-99 in their pure digital form passed to your home. But, like TV21Chief said, the cable company has to convert them to analog for the standard TV tuners 99.9% of us have. Once they convert to analog from the headend, electrical interference and other problems are more pronounced than with a digital signal, so the picture is not as good.

Right now, Cox Cleveland mirrors most of the Analog Channels (Ch. 2 to 99) with digital copies. But most of the digital channels are encoded.

I'm curious about this Cox "digital mirroring" of all the channels 2-99 - aren't the cable companies already whining they don't have enough bandwidth to add new HD channels? I find it hard to beleive they would mirror all those channels out of the goodness of their hearts just to improve the picture quality for the digital cable box owners.

==Analog to digital broadcast transition==
Yes the government will have a program and those who qualify will be able to buy/get an extremely basic digital tuner for some small/no fee. Although this has nothing to do with cable TV and how they will have to deal with the transition.

==Switched Digital Video==
Ya'll got the right basic idea for SDV. Some number of channels would be sent through unswitched since enough people watch them and wouldn't result in any bandwidth savings. The rest would work kind of like onDemand. Although we aren't talking about a specific stream for one person like onDemand but a stream that can have multiple viewers. The stream, once it is established, takes up bandwidth that is available to everyone.

Think of SDV this way, If people are only going to watch (our popular example) the Disney Channel during the day and Comedy Central at night you could save bandwidth by only "showing" one channel at a time. So you have effectively combined two channels into one channel and freed some bandwidth. This is really an oversimplification of how it works, just think you can still can only have X number of channels running at any given time and each distinct channel stream you construct will take up an open slot. So SDV only is effective if used on lesser viewed channels like you find in your 100+ range on your cable box. The big question is how small are they able to divide regions so that viewing channels in one neighborhood doesn't effect the bandwidth of other neighborhoods?

Again, not unlimited bandwidth (since that doesn't exist) but bandwidth savings.

==Digital Simulcasts==
Yes converting analog garbage results in digital garbage, BUT if done before great signal loss across the coax network the picture will be clearer than your analog version. Not to mention that there are digital feeds for most of the "cable" networks. We have digital simulcasts in Cinci and they are much nicer than the analog counterparts (which were pretty good themselves). I wouldn't say they did it out of the goodness of their hearts, but out of need to compete with 100% digital satellite systems.

thanks terry that clears it up for me. You know on the subject of switched video, there are very little resources I could find, I did look for quite a while and all I could come up with was time warner is planning on doing switched video.......

Hookbill, read what terry wrote and that is baiscally what is going on, its a little more in depth, but it will help you grasp what they are planning.


and terry, I thought I read somewhere that they wanted about, ahh I not going to give a number because I probable will be way off, but I really thought I heard about 500, per serving end. and again I could be way off....But if they keep the numbers low, the better it is to manage and control their bandwidth.

new post: I called time warner to see what they could do for me as far as cable goes, I really dont want to sign up till december, but I know they dont install lines in december (ground frozen) anyways, they said they have a special for right now, and 99 dollars a month I would get phone, internet, and digital cable...an extra 15 a month and I would get a extra dvr (HD DVR) and hd package, and the 99 does include one dvr already, and that would come with HBO and HBO on demand. that price is good for 18 months, then it would go up to 127 a month, and I would lose HBO, it is very very tempting, I just would feel bad because I would lose out on NFL sunday ticket, and I dont know if I want to do that or not.

new post: I called time warner to see what they could do for me as far as cable goes, I really dont want to sign up till december, but I know they dont install lines in december (ground frozen) anyways, they said they have a special for right now, and 99 dollars a month I would get phone, internet, and digital cable...an extra 15 a month and I would get a extra dvr (HD DVR) and hd package, and the 99 does include one dvr already, and that would come with HBO and HBO on demand. that price is good for 18 months, then it would go up to 127 a month, and I would lose HBO, it is very very tempting, I just would feel bad because I would lose out on NFL sunday ticket, and I dont know if I want to do that or not.

That "special" will be around again. I'd wait until after football season.

Oh and fwiw I did read what Terry had written and I understand now.

It's part of a package, in my case iirc it was 5 bucks a month over their high speed mid range. I got it right after I got Vonage installed, but also because my wife is quite a gamer so she wanted it for that purpose as well.

I'm in a package now, one of the "Advantage Paks" that gives me HBO and such, for an amount that I'm not sure I want to see on paper right now. :D

If I am not spending too much, maybe I can work it around and get the highest level...

hookbill - just did it...up to 4500kbps down and 450ish up right now. Woo hoo! Best move I've made. (I wonder if the upstream stuff either takes a while or I need to reset my modem...either way, I'm thrilled with the speedy download.)

hookbill - just did it...up to 4500kbps down and 450ish up right now. Woo hoo! Best move I've made. (I wonder if the upstream stuff either takes a while or I need to reset my modem...either way, I'm thrilled with the speedy download.)

Hmmmm. Just about everywhere I've tested I'm always over 800 kpbs on the up stream.

Have you tried this (http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp) test site?

FYI anyone with Directv they added CBS19 to the MPEG 4 HD local lineup this morning so we now have all major nets.

HEY DC! they just emailed me, and said they were close to being done!!! that is amazing news, now I cant wait to upgrade my HR10-250 for the HR20-700!

Hmmmm. Just about everywhere I've tested I'm always over 800 kpbs on the up stream.

Have you tried this (http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp) test site?

I was using Speedtest.net...which is really cool and looks pretty! :D

Here's what I get from your site:

Download: 4577 kbps
Upload: 961.7 kbps

OK, I'm happy. :D

Wide Open West QAM - has anyone else tried and what were your results?

I just tried an AutumnWave OnAir USB QAM tuner on my PC and only WKYC Weather Plus and OnDemand Barker show as stations that are available in the clear. I've tried multiple cable outlets and two different PCs and the result is the same each time.

Has anyone been able to get more than these two stations on WOW with any type of clear QAM tuner? I would have at least expected the local channels and STO which are part of the HD basic tier.

Wide Open West QAM - has anyone else tried and what were your results?

I just tried an AutumnWave OnAir USB QAM tuner on my PC and only WKYC Weather Plus and OnDemand Barker show as stations that are available in the clear. I've tried multiple cable outlets and two different PCs and the result is the same each time.

Has anyone been able to get more than these two stations on WOW with any type of clear QAM tuner? I would have at least expected the local channels and STO which are part of the HD basic tier.

You're freakin me out - I was just about to ask the very same question. I did a channel scan tonight with the OnAir USB HDTV tonight and only get the Music Choice channels, a PPV barker (channel 300 something?), and Weather Plus. No other QAM-in-the-clear channels are coming in.

I think we need to give WOW a call and find out what's going on. Wouldn't surprise me if we're the first two guys in the Cleveland market to use a QAM tuner on WOW :D

You're freakin me out - I was just about to ask the very same question. I did a channel scan tonight with the OnAir USB HDTV tonight and only get the Music Choice channels, a PPV barker (channel 300 something?), and Weather Plus. No other QAM-in-the-clear channels are coming in.

I think we need to give WOW a call and find out what's going on. Wouldn't surprise me if we're the first two guys in the Cleveland market to use a QAM tuner on WOW :D

Saw you over in the AutumnWave thread too. I've called WOW in the past and the standard response is that clear QAM is not supported. Thought it may just be a brush-off from a CSR that didn't want to be helpful and/or sell an HD subscription, but I should have known better. If it were possible, the WOW rep would have likely told me. Can't say enough good things about their customer service.

In the next few days, I'll go over to my neighbor's with my laptop and see what I can pick up over Adelphia. I'll let you know.

Saw you over in the AutumnWave thread too. I've called WOW in the past and the standard response is that clear QAM is not supported. Thought it may just be a brush-off from a CSR that didn't want to be helpful and/or sell an HD subscription, but I should have known better. If it were possible, the WOW rep would have likely told me. Can't say enough good things about their customer service.

In the next few days, I'll go over to my neighbor's with my laptop and see what I can pick up over Adelphia. I'll let you know.

Quick OT - do you have the GT and is the Antenna/Cable connector loose where you can twist it 180 degrees?

Re the connector - it's a removable RCA-to-F adapter, so yes it rotates around 360 degrees. Nothing to worry about.

I put in an email to WOW customer service. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I have the email of the Cleveland area system manager (they took it off the WOW website about 2-3 years ago, perhaps coincidentally after I started asking him all these questions about their HD services :D ) In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.

Re the connector - it's a removable RCA-to-F adapter, so yes it rotates around 360 degrees. Nothing to worry about..

Thanks. Feeling a little silly about that one. :rolleyes:

I put in an email to WOW customer service. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I have the email of the Cleveland area system manager (they took it off the WOW website about 2-3 years ago, perhaps coincidentally after I started asking him all these questions about their HD services :D ) In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.

Good luck and while you're at it, see if you can get us WVIZ, Discovery HD Theater, and TNT-HD like Adelphia/TWC has. :D

I would switch but I'd have to deal with Adelphia customer service to get it.

In my email I made the point that they are required to send the local digital channels "in the clear" by FCC mandate.

Good luck with that since it's not entirely true.

See: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4308637&&#post4308637

I changed to one of those typical huge antennas (the rooftop models with all the spikes) and put it in my attic. With it I was able to get 3 and 19 (Cleveland VHF) without any problems, coverage around 95%.

I was also able to turn it with a lot of trial and error to pick up Youngstown stations at about 75%, and several from Akron/Canton at 85%. I know I didn't get all Youngstown stations. If I remember correctly it was 21.1, 27.1, 27.2, and a few PBS. I was able to get 33.1 for short periods, nothing substantial. Other Youngstown stations were typically 33% and unusable. Youngstown seemed most effected by a booster. I added 20dB to get some better. I will try a few more DB sometime to see if that helps during bad weather, high atmosphere, etc.

The signals are pretty fussy about antenna position. I ended up "pointing" it North (and down) such that the Cleveland VHF signals were good from the West and Youngstown was still good coming from SE. Antennas seem like a lot of voodoo, but my personal opinion is that a large size and variable booster make the most difference.

Update: I moved this huge antenna from N to pointing almost directly NE. A few channels like 19.1 and 67.1 went down to 78%, but I was able to get 33.1 and 36.4 (WYTV and MyYTV). The booster was absolutely essential, as without it all of Youngstown disappeared.

There are still a few stations I can't get that seem closer than the ones I do get, but it's probably a broadcast strength issue. The antenna search website should add this to their display, is there one that shows signal strength?

So from memory I have 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 27.2, 33.1, 36.4, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 47.2, 47.3, 47.4, 61.1, and 67.1 through this antenna...all with strenghts of between 70%-95%, most at 78%. I'll have to see how these do in bad weather.

Good luck with that since it's not entirely true.

See: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4308637&&#post4308637

Interesting. This is what WOW had to say:

Thank you for contacting WOW! via email.

You are mistaken in the FCC Mandate. We are being charged for carrying those stations by the broadcaster. We pass those charges along to our customers. The channels are not free to us or our customers. They are available free with an HDTV antenna and attached HDTV tuner. You will not be able to decode our HDTV signal without our HDTV receiver or cable card. If you wish to order our HDTV service, please contact us at 1-866-496-9669.


That's pretty disappointing considering Adelphia and my Comcast service in Florida carries the local digital channels in the clear.

Interesting. That's pretty disappointing considering Adelphia and my Comcast service in Florida carries the local digital channels in the clear.

I don't know much about QAM tuners, but isn't there a difference between digital and HD digital? It appears to me from the ruleing that if they carry the locals digitally then they would be required to allow you to get it via QAM. That doesn't mean HD. For example here in newly formed TW land we get both analog, digital, and all locals that broadcast in HD. HD and digital are at two different locations.

So if WOW doesn't offer digital locals, that could explain why there is no QAM capability.

I think. :)

I think Hookbill has stumbled onto the answer that's been alluding everyone, particularly those of us who assumed QAM HD locals had to be in the clear.

If TWC wanted to change that, they could, but from what I've read...it's just easier technically to do it the way they do it now. But since they have the digital SD versions (at least here on the ex-Adelphia side), they could use those to fulfill the mandate.

I think Hookbill has stumbled onto the answer that's been alluding everyone, particularly those of us who assumed QAM HD locals had to be in the clear.

If TWC wanted to change that, they could, but from what I've read...it's just easier technically to do it the way they do it now. But since they have the digital SD versions (at least here on the ex-Adelphia side), they could use those to fulfill the mandate.

No, that's not really it either. The cable cos that don't offer locals in the clear are leaning on the analog version of the channel as fulfilling the mandate from the FCC. Now if the analog version goes away, then the cable provider is probably obilgated to provide the primary digital channel (X.1) in the clear. The trick is the channels we are looking to be in the clear are not digital "must carry" channels and are infact "Voluntary Carriage" stations.

BEGIN QUOTE
We believe that it would facilitate the digital transition to permit cable operators that are carrying a broadcast station’s analog signal on the basic tier to carry that broadcast station’s digital signal on a digital tier pursuant to retransmission consent.
END QUOTE
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/2001/fcc01022.pdf

Can someone explain to me how the FCC's definition of "competition" allows the cable company to *not* carry the digital locals? i.e., if there's more competition, they can offer *less* to the customer? :confused:

From my consumer point of view, why wouldn't WOW provide the digital locals in the clear when their competitor (TWC/Adelphia) *is* providing them in the clear? Stupid move on WOW's part -- they've made this loyal WOW customer now consider switching to Adelphia...

From my consumer point of view, why wouldn't WOW provide the digital locals in the clear when their competitor (TWC/Adelphia) *is* providing them in the clear? Stupid move on WOW's part -- they've made this loyal WOW customer now consider switching to Adelphia...

Good point. Send them an email and see what they say.

Update: I moved this huge antenna from N to pointing almost directly NE. A few channels like 19.1 and 67.1 went down to 78%, but I was able to get 33.1 and 36.4 (WYTV and MyYTV). The booster was absolutely essential, as without it all of Youngstown disappeared.

There are still a few stations I can't get that seem closer than the ones I do get, but it's probably a broadcast strength issue. The antenna search website should add this to their display, is there one that shows signal strength?

So from memory I have 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 21.1, 21.2, 27.1, 27.2, 33.1, 36.4, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 47.2, 47.3, 47.4, 61.1, and 67.1 through this antenna...all with strenghts of between 70%-95%, most at 78%. I'll have to see how these do in bad weather.
What is on 47.1, 47.2, 47.3 & 47.4?
Digital RF ch 47 is WOAC, which on my receiver shows up as 67.1 (no other subchannels). Maybe I should rescan 47 to see what elso they have on?

BTW: It looks like youare missing the 2 Akron signals on 39 and 50 (unless the "47" you are getting is actually 46 which is WNEO from Alliance). rf 50 is ch 49 WEAO from Akron. Either one has 3 subchannels the last time I scanned.

What is on 47.1, 47.2, 47.3 & 47.4?
Digital RF ch 47 is WOAC, which on my receiver shows up as 67.1 (no other subchannels). Maybe I should rescan 47 to see what elso they have on?

BTW: It looks like youare missing the 2 Akron signals on 39 and 50 (unless the "47" you are getting is actually 46 which is WNEO from Alliance). rf 50 is ch 49 WEAO from Akron. Either one has 3 subchannels the last time I scanned.

Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.

I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from <20 miles away.

No, that's not really it either. The cable cos that don't offer locals in the clear are leaning on the analog version of the channel as fulfilling the mandate from the FCC. Now if the analog version goes away, then the cable provider is probably obilgated to provide the primary digital channel (X.1) in the clear. The trick is the channels we are looking to be in the clear are not digital "must carry" channels and are infact "Voluntary Carriage" stations.

Oh, OK, I get it now. Basically, they have to provide the main signal in the clear *somehow*, and if they ever dump analog, that could be digital (though not necessarily the DT/HD signal). Is that about it?

paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.

HD channels include: WKYC-HD, WUAB-HD, WEWS-HD, WJW-HD, WVIZ-DT, WOIO-DT, DSCHD, HDBON, TNTHD

SD channels include: OHIO, WKYC, WOIO, WEWS, WUAB, WJW, BARK

There were some quirky issues. It took two scans to bring up WEWS-HD and WJW-HD. Same for Music Choice, which like on WOW, rarely shows the static image with the song title and artist. Weather Plus showed up on the first and third scans, but not on the second - no channel name, just the number. Also channel numbers changed from scan to scan with the SD channels, HDBON, BARK and TNTHD.

Signal strength was 30-33dB across the board. Video was smooth and channel changes were relatively quick on a 1.6GHz Thinkpad.

Can't believe that I'm actually considering going back to Adelphia/TWC, but the opportunity to have a PC-based DVR and time-shifting with all those channels is pretty tempting.

Oh, OK, I get it now. Basically, they have to provide the main signal in the clear *somehow*, and if they ever dump analog, that could be digital (though not necessarily the DT/HD signal). Is that about it?

That's my understanding. I think the idea is the basic/lifeline tier that is regulated by the FCC needs to carry at least the big 4 networks in some fashion and that tier may or may not require a cable box (see NYC/New Jersey markets).

paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.

HD channels include: WKYC-HD, WUAB-HD, WEWS-HD, WJW-HD, WVIZ-DT, WOIO-DT, DSCHD, HDBON, TNTHD

SD channels include: OHIO, WKYC, WOIO, WEWS, WUAB, WJW, BARK

There were some quirky issues. It took two scans to bring up WEWS-HD and WJW-HD. Same for Music Choice, which like on WOW, rarely shows the static image with the song title and artist. Weather Plus showed up on the first and third scans, but not on the second - no channel name, just the number. Also channel numbers changed from scan to scan with the SD channels, HDBON, BARK and TNTHD.

Signal strength was 30-33dB across the board. Video was smooth and channel changes were relatively quick on a 1.6GHz Thinkpad.

Can't believe that I'm actually considering going back to Adelphia/TWC, but the opportunity to have a PC-based DVR and time-shifting with all those channels is pretty tempting.

I fired off a reply to the CSR at WOW about the QAM thing - told them I was thinking about switching to TWC/Adelphia. Hate to switch because I hear TWC does the rate shaping thing on the HD channels, and from what I've seen so far WOW doesn't screw with 'em.

QAM seems to be flaky on anything but the cable company box - on my LG 32LX1D in Florida on Comcast, tuning to certain QAM channels can make the whole TV reboot itself - it's crazy. I have to follow a very specific sequence to delete the "reboot" channels from memory after I'm done scanning. I've actually tuned to a "defective" QAM channel and had it erase all or some of the channels from the TV's memory, and I have to start all over again. Ridiculous.

paule - I tried the AutumnWave OnAir GT on an Adelphia/TWC line and got a whole bunch of channels.

I get pretty much the same here, though the channel numbers have been solid on this end...even with some of the stuff you said moved around.

I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.

I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.

This is what happened to me with Comcast in Florida - I couldn't pick up a bunch of the QAM locals until I bought a professional quality amp for the line and cleaned up some taps in the condo. Something tells me an official cable company box would have worked just fine without any amps or messing around. Funny how that works when you try to use your own equipment...

I had some problem scanning and keeping one of the two QAM channels that holds the HD locals - I think it was the one that has WOIO and WVIZ, but I'm not sure - but that hasn't happened since I removed an extra splitter that dropped the signal levels.

I splitt off to my DVD player before my SA 8300. I have had to add a power booster in my attic because some of my stations, not the HD ones, were not getting enough signal.

Still this makes me wonder. I've had a problem with partial recordings for some time now on HD locals only (SA 8300). It appears the entire program is being recorded but when I check the list only part of the programs gets recorded. Sometimes 3 minutes, sometimes 56 minutes it always varys. It happens sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I record about 4 shows each night.

I don't use my DVD player that much but I wonder if I should remove this splitter? I have thought of this before and looked at the signal quality with the DVD player on and I don't see any difference. Still....????

Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.

I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from <20 miles away.

Interestingly, I also get a good signal from "10.3" which is listed as audio only...although I don't hear anything. Anyone know what this one is?

I don't use my DVD player that much but I wonder if I should remove this splitter? I have thought of this before and looked at the signal quality with the DVD player on and I don't see any difference. Still....????

It couldn't hurt to remove it...

Interestingly, I also get a good signal from "10.3" which is listed as audio only...although I don't hear anything. Anyone know what this one is?

From where you are, that could only be (saving unusual propagation) something off of WOIO-DT, which is RF 10. Since you seem to have a mix of correct PSIP remapping and not...

You aren't close enough to WBNS-DT, which would remap to 10.x if they did it right and you got it right.

I seem to recall someone was talking about a weather subchannel popping up from time to time on WOIO-DT. I have nearly as hard a time getting it as I do WKYC-DT, so I haven't seen it OTA.

they took the channel 10.2 (19-2 WOIOWX) down, there is no WOIO weather channel, but there is still a 3.3 NBC, which just broadcasts on 3.1, why not just eliminate 3.3 all together?

It couldn't hurt to remove it...

The more I thought about it I already I'm sure I've already tried it. It didn't make a difference.

Sorry, my memory was off. That should read 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, and 49.4. They are all WEAO channels.

I don't get any digital channels on 2, 39, or 50. I think I see a blip, but it doesn't surprise me I don't get them. My limited experience says that signal strength and interference are more important than distance. i.e. In the right conditions - and by turning my antenna - I can get something from 40+ miles away and totally miss something from <20 miles away.If you are getting 49.1 etc. then you are getting rf ch 50. If you get 50 you should get 39 since the transmitters are close to each other.

they took the channel 10.2 (19-2 WOIOWX) down, there is no WOIO weather channel, but there is still a 3.3 NBC, which just broadcasts on 3.1, why not just eliminate 3.3 all together?

What is this 3.3 that you speak of? The only things that I get at that channel position are 3.1, WKYC-DT, and 3.2, WKYC Weather Plus. I have never seen a 3.3. And I have been receiving these pretty well for the past few weeks - they are usually a difficult catch for me.

I do remember receiving 19.2 briefly a while back, but I never saw any video on it - just a blank raster.

3.3 shows up on my HDTIVO, and I just got this thing, its never had any locals scanned into it before, and when I scanned I picked up 3.3 which was there a while ago WKYC had stuff running on it....NOw its just a mirror of 3.1

I think the HDTivos and the E* PVR do their own odd mapping, probably based at least in part on what their guide information has.

I wouldn't talk definitively about local stations' subchannels if you have one of the satellite boxes...it may not reflect reality.

I think the HDTivos and the E* PVR do their own odd mapping, probably based at least in part on what their guide information has.

I wouldn't talk definitively about local stations' subchannels if you have one of the satellite boxes...it may not reflect reality.

Well my reality is its definitely on my tv, and was there when I scanned it three days ago. I dont know how the Tivos work, I just know I scanned it was there.

Well my reality is its definitely on my tv, and was there when I scanned it three days ago. I dont know how the Tivos work, I just know I scanned it was there.

I wasn't saying it was not there :D

I was noting that the satellite DVRs seem to map channels attached to their program guides, and that their designation of the channel vs. what it is actually called OTA may not be the same. What your DVR calls "3.3" may not actually be sent out by WKYC that way.

Unfortunately, I have trouble getting WKYC and WOIO's DT channels due to their VHF status, so I can't tell you what an OTA receiver (not attached to a program guide) shows.

okay thanks for the explination, I am still new to all of this, and my Last HDTIVo which I had till monday (yes this monday) never picked it up, and I rescanned this sunday because I am eager to get Youngstown NBC! anyways it was a suprise when it was there, and I Dont know how it got there, this box was from coloumbus ohio (but the man had done a master reset, plus cleared EVERYTHING out of this box) is it possible that the guide data was stuck?

okay thanks for the explination, I am still new to all of this, and my Last HDTIVo which I had till monday (yes this monday) never picked it up, and I rescanned this sunday because I am eager to get Youngstown NBC! anyways it was a suprise when it was there, and I Dont know how it got there, this box was from coloumbus ohio (but the man had done a master reset, plus cleared EVERYTHING out of this box) is it possible that the guide data was stuck?

Hmm. Don't know if that's possible, but the CBS affiliate in Columbus is on analog 10, and presumably PSIP maps to 10.1-etc...

I live in Mentor just north of Lost Nation Airport south of Lakeshore, East of 306 and West of Lost Nation Rd. I had the DirecTV HDTV upgrade last year and decided to boost my OTA HD reception with an antennasdirect V21 Uni-Directional Outdoor UHF/VHF antenna over the little wing that DirecTV sent out with my new dish last year. I have a DirecTV H10 HDTV reciever.
I spent all afternoon this Saturday running up and down my ladder attempting to adjust both the dish and the antenna for the best signal strengths. The DirecTV installer combined the sat and antenna signals at the dish mount and split them before my receiver. What took me so long to realize (or hypothesize) was that when I have the new antenna connected in this fashion, the DirecTV signal drops.
I believe I have the following options:
1) run a second coax line for the antenna and bypass the signal combining and splitting
2) return the new antenna, reinstall the old antenna and add an amp to the antenna signal
3) recieve some valuable information from someone who understands this better than I do and follow their recommendations.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

if you have the HR10-250, you can get a free upgrade to the NEW HD Dvr, and you will get all cleveland locals over the sat. and you wont have to worry about OTA.

jezmund714,

KEEP THAT ANTENNA !!! I'm in Lorain have had D* (Direct TV) HD set-up (3lnb dish) for 3yrs with an OTA rooftop (Channelmaster) antenna. 2 weeks ago I updated to the H20 with the new 5lnb dish for digital locals. I'm here to tell you that if you respect your HDTV quality you won't be happy with D*'s compressed /less than spectacular local feed. It's not as noticable with primetime filmed or recorded material but when you get into football or any LIVE broadcast the picture takes on a pre-recorded fake regurgitated quality. Plus, when motion is thrown in you'll see all kinds of artifacts that aren't there in the uncompressed OTA signal.
So, run that RG-6 to the best HDTV antenna you can afford, dump your H10 for the newer
more tuning sensitive H20 so you can have D* digital locals as a BACKUP.

if you have the HR10-250, you can get a free upgrade to the NEW HD Dvr, and you will get all cleveland locals over the sat. and you wont have to worry about OTA.

When I spoke to D* about that last month they told me that they would not guarantee upgrade to HR-20 would be free. American Satellite told me it would but D* told me that was "premature" of them to say that. When I contacted another rep at American Satellite they told me as well that they could not say if there would be a charge for switching out to the HR-20.

I am scheduled this thursday for a free upgrade.

I am scheduled this thursday for a free upgrade.

I'm glad it's free. I just hope your not disappointed.

stuart628,
I think my D* reciever is an H10, not HR10-250. It does not have a DVR and is I believe an H10-200 if I read the manufacturer number right. I prefer my personally upgraded 200 hour standalone Tivo hooked up to a secondary (older) D* receiver.

burgher,
Are you saying that the additional coax line would be my best option?

Now that the CBS NFL Today pregame is HD, it's gonna be really painful when they switch to the horrible SD broadcast at 1pm in the coming weeks.

At least we get the season started in HD on Fox today!

why would I be disapointed hookbill, do you know something I dont? I do like the tivo interface but I already have one Directv DVR in my house. also I have heard nothing but rave reviews of Directvs Mpeg4, how it looks as close to OTA as they have seen, except for the one negative comment here, and also a few stuttering video problems they have been working out, I havent heard anything negative. :) Also you guys had me concerned and they just set me up for a free 5 lnb swap out no dvr swap out-DANG YOU directv for lying to me, oh well it will come soon enough, they will have a free swap out from what I am hearing! I will keep you guys posted here if anything changes.

why would I be disapointed hookbill, do you know something I dont? I do like the tivo interface but I already have one Directv DVR in my house. also I have heard nothing but rave reviews of Directvs Mpeg4, how it looks as close to OTA as they have seen, except for the one negative comment here, and also a few stuttering video problems they have been working out, I havent heard anything negative. :) Also you guys had me concerned and they just set me up for a free 5 lnb swap out no dvr swap out-DANG YOU directv for lying to me, oh well it will come soon enough, they will have a free swap out from what I am hearing! I will keep you guys posted here if anything changes.

Sounds like your getting a bit anxious. Hey if you don't mind going to the D* DVR and your already familiar with it then fine. I have heard more then one negative comment but I heard people say the same thing when switching from the old Microsoft Ultimate TV to TiVo.

Relax, it will be fine. :)

Sounds like your getting a bit anxious. Hey if you don't mind going to the D* DVR and your already familiar with it then fine. I have heard more then one negative comment but I heard people say the same thing when switching from the old Microsoft Ultimate TV to TiVo.

Relax, it will be fine. :)


Anxious, a little as I would really love to get the Cavs in HD, thats one thing I miss from cable :-(. and I realize this box isnt perfect, but someone who had tivo from Day one said it took alot of updates to get it where it is today, and I think that is one great box!

Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??

Is the DirecTV HD DVR officially out and available in Cleveland now?

My father is going to have to go through this eventually. He likes the DTiVo and wants to keep it, but he won't be able to record the MPEG4 locals if he could even get an HD TiVo anymore, let alone the fact that D* is moving to MPEG4 in general down the road.

Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??

Wish I knew. WBNX is supposedly working on it, and I suspect we may know one way or another a week from Monday at the CW launch.

jezmund-
YES on that coax line.
Again,
Does anybody know when WVIZ-25 is to begin their digital broadcasting OTA ??? In springtime the word was mid-summer. I realize they're doing minimal now around N. Royalton area but, whens the big guns comin'???? I want my OTA PBS HD Feed :D

Inundated, Best buy has them now, and Directv "offically" has them starting tonight...But people have called Directv and gotten lucky, which I did too until My CSR Screwed my order up!

Inundated, Best buy has them now, and Directv "offically" has them starting tonight...But people have called Directv and gotten lucky, which I did too until My CSR Screwed my order up!

Did they move the install date? If they did you can change it yourself on line. I had my order pushed back 2 days and went on line and moved it back to the original date. Of course it didn't do much good because I never got the install anyway, but I just thought I'd mention it to you.

jezmund-
YES on that coax line.
Again,
Does anybody know when WVIZ-25 is to begin their digital broadcasting OTA ??? In springtime the word was mid-summer. I realize they're doing minimal now around N. Royalton area but, whens the big guns comin'???? I want my OTA PBS HD Feed :D

I recently e-mailed them regarding their start of high power HDTV transmissions. They responded to the message saying that hopefully sometime in 2007 they would start their full-power transmissions.

Certainly I was hoping for something sooner. WEAO-DT also stated that it would be months before their HDTV transmissions were available. For the short term we in NEO are out of luck in regards to OTA HDTV PBS programming.

I live in Mentor just north of Lost Nation Airport south of Lakeshore, East of 306 and West of Lost Nation Rd. I had the DirecTV HDTV upgrade last year and decided to boost my OTA HD reception with an antennasdirect V21 Uni-Directional Outdoor UHF/VHF antenna over the little wing that DirecTV sent out with my new dish last year. I have a DirecTV H10 HDTV reciever.
I spent all afternoon this Saturday running up and down my ladder attempting to adjust both the dish and the antenna for the best signal strengths. The DirecTV installer combined the sat and antenna signals at the dish mount and split them before my receiver. What took me so long to realize (or hypothesize) was that when I have the new antenna connected in this fashion, the DirecTV signal drops.
I believe I have the following options:
1) run a second coax line for the antenna and bypass the signal combining and splitting
2) return the new antenna, reinstall the old antenna and add an amp to the antenna signal
3) recieve some valuable information from someone who understands this better than I do and follow their recommendations.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My advice is to call a professional like Cleveland antenna service. Why drive yourself crazy, let them fix it and they will
Good Luck

My advice is to call a professional like Cleveland antenna service. Why drive yourself crazy, let them fix it and they will
Good Luck

In order to split/combine antenna and digital signals you need a splitter/combiner made for that purpose. The splitter/combiner should say "digital" on one side and "VHF/UHF" on the other. Filters inside prevent one type of signal from reducing the quality on the other.

And as an update on my previous antenna exploits, I ended up physically splitting my antenna in two pieces. There is a "VHF" end and a "UHF" end . Did somebode make this up? That the V part of the antenna works best for Vhf signals, and make rounded pieces of metal for Uhf?

Anyway, it certainly works this way and by pointing them in different directions (VHF is pretty close to N, UHF is E or NE) I was able to get more stations to their maximum level. I can reach the UHF Youngstown stations better without reducing the VHF signals from Cleveland. FYI.

Did they move the install date? If they did you can change it yourself on line. I had my order pushed back 2 days and went on line and moved it back to the original date. Of course it didn't do much good because I never got the install anyway, but I just thought I'd mention it to you.


No she Screwed up the order, she was suppose to order the HD DVR swap out, and 5 lnb install, which she did,but on the work order, there were no notes, so the CSR said she cant copy it, and had trouble replacing it because it baiscally stated 5lnb install, and HDDVR install (no HD DVR ordered, so I might just order a HD DVR from *********************, and have Directv install the 5 lnb, that way I know I get the New Dvr, and the new 5 lnb, and dont have to wait for Directv to offically release their equipment. ( wow, I made 5 sentences into one :) I am at work and in a hurry could you tell!)


edit: just looked at Time warners website and they have a new package called all the best, it includes digital cable, phone, and The best of all (j/k) Road Runner Lite, for 99.00 a month for 6 months

http://www.timewarnercable.com/northeastohio/products/allthebest.html

Greetings all,

I just purchased a 42"Hitachi Plasma (http://www.hitachi.us/tv/browse/plasma/plasma/42hds69.shtml) and am looking to get HD programming.

Currently I have a SD package through Direct TV with an OTA indoor/outdoor antenna from Radio Shack that can access Fox and ABC without a hitch. I am having problems accessing an HD signal from NBC and CBS. Currently the antenna sits on the first floor of a 2 story home. My family room has a vaulted ceiling that reaches the second story elevation. I have climbed to the top of the second floor in my family room on a ladder holding the antenna with no signal improvement from NBC or CBS.

I live in Lyndhurst which is an Eastern suburb that is just West of Mayfield and North of Beachwood. Any one here live in that area that has an HD OTA and is able to access CBS or NBC? Any tips on how to achieve a signal?

Any help/response would be appreciated?

Also, is the rumor true that Direct TV signed on to broadcast Sports Time Ohio (STO) or CBS local in HD? What about Fox Sports Net?

I live in South Euclid off of Green near Monticello. I get WKYC at near 100%. I generally get WOIO strong enough for a steady signal. However, I do have an rooftop antenna with a rotor, which helps to direct the antenna better.

I live in South Euclid off of Green near Monticello. I get WKYC at near 100%. I generally get WOIO strong enough for a steady signal. However, I do have an rooftop antenna with a rotor, which helps to direct the antenna better.

I live just South of Wilson Mills, fairly close to you. I would imagine I would be able to access just as good of a signal. What kind of antenna do you have, where did you get it?

I don't remember the antenna off the top of my head. It was installed by Cleveland Antenna Service. They come out with a meter to measure directions and strength so that you know what you should be able to get. I don't have their number right at hand, but I know they get mentioned in this thread pretty regularly and hopefully someone will supply it.

I also have Dir*** in bainbridge along Rt422 corridor, Cleveland Antenna did my install in late winter of this year. I get NBC great, usually at 90-100 %. WOIO is usually 80%, the ABC channel and Fox8 were coming in until about two weeks ago, now very spotty at best. Browns games on 8 was all over the place on signal meter. I have them coming out this week to see what the problem is. I did find out over the net that certain Dir*** HD receivers are having problems now with their ATSC tuners. Mine is the DTC-210 which is one of the problem models. They also installed a second antenna toward Youngstown and that one is always perfect.

I don't remember the antenna off the top of my head. It was installed by Cleveland Antenna Service. They come out with a meter to measure directions and strength so that you know what you should be able to get. I don't have their number right at hand, but I know they get mentioned in this thread pretty regularly and hopefully someone will supply it.
440-237-6888 ask for Jim West.

440-237-6888 ask for Jim West.

Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?

I've had a problem with partial recordings for some time now on HD locals only (SA 8300). It appears the entire program is being recorded but when I check the list only part of the programs gets recorded. Sometimes 3 minutes, sometimes 56 minutes it always varys. It happens sometimes 2 or 3 times a week. I record about 4 shows each night.


Is it happening right at a local commercial break? A little while back one of the broadcasters was experiencing mpeg splicing issues and it caused a symptom very similar to what you're describing. The mpeg PIDs were getting munged when a local break was inserted, if I recall correctly.

Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?

Hey, I used to live in Lyndhurst. :cool: I don't know how much it is to install an antenna (probably in the $200 range...a guess based on Dish installations) but I would definately recommend the largest antenna you can afford. Certain channels are easy to get but others are very picky. Or if you don't want to go with a large one, get one that rotates. They are not that expensive and you can move it based on the time of day, weather, or channel.

Thanks, do they have a website? Approximately how much $ to install an antenna capable of receiving HD OTA?
Ballpark $200-$300 would be my guess. I have dealt with many antenna companies over the years going back to the big 10 ft dish days. Some of those installers were pretty bad and always late. This is a father and son and they are the best that I have ever dealt with in antenna issues.
I am very particular and they satisfied me.
Cost is dependent on difficulty of job and antenna.
You can trust them; they wont oversell you.
Good luck and let the forum know about your experience

Does any one else out there find it amazing at the all of the technology we posess today and how far televisions have come since it's inception? We can now purchase 4" thick plasma displays that broadcast crystal clear images in upwards of 60+ inches! Yet, we still rely on terrestrial, ugly and sometimes large antennas and have to mess with their position to achieve a HD signal? It seems like we are back in early years of cable when we all had set-top rabbit ears with tin foil!

Just thought that it was funny. You would think this technology would be a little more advanced and easily accessed. LOL.

Digital television is still in the early stages. One of the problems with WKYC in particular is that it broadcasts on one of the worst frequencies. It will move eventually, but it will still be a problem in the short term.

My father is as little as one day away from getting his new Samsung 67" DLP set, and I have one question (aside from the HD DVR one earlier :D)...

Calibration. Self, or someone who does it? How much? If someone does it, anyone recommended here in Northeast Ohio that'll do it in Akron?

Does anyone know anything about when WBNX, WVIZ, or WVPX will be on digitally??
I don't think you'll see any of those signals down in Wintersville.

WBNX has the equipment, it just needs to be installed.

WVIZ has a temorary set-up at their old studios on Brookpark Road. It's 1 kw and 99' high. I just barely receive it and then only by tweaking my antenna out a window. I can't get the signal through aluminum siding, and I'm only 3 miles from WVIZ's old studio!

WVPX was assigned a digital channel on rf ch 59. That frequency is going away after the transition in 2009. They will probably flip ch 23 over to digital without a transition. It does not make economic sense for the owners of WVPX to invest in an antenna and transmitter optomized for a frequency that will be out of the TV band in 2 years.

Out of the 3 stations WVPX is probably the ony one that, on a good skip day, might make an apperance down there in Jefferson County. "I" is also the only netwotrk not carried in Pittsburgh or Youngstown, 2 markets that I'm sure you can watch there in the Steubnville area.

Calibration. Self, or someone who does it? How much? If someone does it, anyone recommended here in Northeast Ohio that'll do it in Akron? Inundated, I have a nationally known calibrator (Gregg Loewen of LionAV (http://www.lionav.com/mgreggloewen.php)) coming to calibrate my Samsung in late October or early November. I highly recommend him. If you contact him and remind him he'll be in our area at that time, I'm sure he would be glad to do your Dad's set the same time he does mine. It is recommended that you put some hours (100?) on the set before having it calibrated just to be sure the set doesn't have problems.

We are not allowed to discuss price on the forum, but I am able to tell you, though not inexpensive, IMHO, it is money well spent. You can find out about cost by clicking "prices" in the menu at the top of the above linked web page.

Other excellent options are Eliab of Avical (http://www.avical.com/) (screen name Eliab here on the forum) and W. Jeff Meier of Accucal (http://www.accucal.org/) (Screen name UMR here on the forum). Both, like Gregg, tour nationally, and are well respected.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.

Inundated, I have a nationally known calibrator (Gregg Loewen of LionAV (http://www.lionav.com/mgreggloewen.php)) coming to calibrate my Samsung in late October or early November. I highly recommend him. If you contact him and remind him he'll be in our area at that time, I'm sure he would be glad to do your Dad's set the same time he does mine. It is recommended that you put some hours (100?) on the set before having it calibrated just to be sure the set doesn't have problems.

We are not allowed to discuss price on the forum, but I am able to tell you, though not inexpensive, IMHO, it is money well spent. You can find out about cost by clicking "prices" in the menu at the top of the above linked web page.

Other excellent options are Eliab of Avical (http://www.avical.com/) (screen name Eliab here on the forum) and W. Jeff Meier of Accucal (http://www.accucal.org/) (Screen name UMR here on the forum). Both, like Gregg, tour nationally, and are well respected.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.


Greg is the king. No one does it better. Use him

I don't think you'll see any of those signals down in Wintersville.

WBNX has the equipment, it just needs to be installed.

WVIZ has a temorary set-up at their old studios on Brookpark Road. It's 1 kw and 99' high. I just barely receive it and then only by tweaking my antenna out a window. I can't get the signal through aluminum siding, and I'm only 3 miles from WVIZ's old studio!

WVPX was assigned a digital channel on rf ch 59. That frequency is going away after the transition in 2009. They will probably flip ch 23 over to digital without a transition. It does not make economic sense for the owners of WVPX to invest in an antenna and transmitter optomized for a frequency that will be out of the TV band in 2 years.

Out of the 3 stations WVPX is probably the ony one that, on a good skip day, might make an apperance down there in Jefferson County. "I" is also the only netwotrk not carried in Pittsburgh or Youngstown, 2 markets that I'm sure you can watch there in the Steubnville area.


I have a stacked 4228 in get 5,8,43,61,67 most of the time

I shot an email over to the Cavaliers re FSN Ohio HD coverage, and they said FSN Ohio is looking to do up to 20 games in HD for the 2006-2007 season. That's a bit of a bummer -- I was hoping for an all-HD season.

Looks like we've got a good number of national games on ABC, ESPN and TNT, so those should be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/

Greg is the king. No one does it better. Use him

He may be great, but I'm too cheap. :) I've calibrated my own using INHD's test patterns.

Close enough for rock and roll as far as I'm concerned. :D

I shot an email over to the Cavaliers re FSN Ohio HD coverage, and they said FSN Ohio is looking to do up to 20 games in HD for the 2006-2007 season. That's a bit of a bummer -- I was hoping for an all-HD season.

Looks like we've got a good number of national games on ABC, ESPN and TNT, so those should be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/

Is FSNHD available through Dish or DTV? What about STO?

FSNOhioHD, is rumored to be available when the cavs start playing, and STO is available as a game only channel in HD when the Indians play on channel 96 I believe (one of their specail events channels!)

He may be great, but I'm too cheap. :) I've calibrated my own using INHD's test patterns.

Close enough for rock and roll as far as I'm concerned. :D And I'm sure you've done a great job. However, without going into a TV's service menu (making changes in the service menu is not recommended for anyone who doesn't know exactly what he's doing. A mistake can make toast of your set), no owner can get results like a professional calibrator. While any owner, using a calibration disc, like AVIA or Digital Video Essentials, can adjust a set with the user menu to his satisfaction, it is impossible to calibrate a set close to SMPTE standards without the expensive equipment and considerable knowledge available to an ISF certified calibrator who knows what he's doing.

Most TVs are preset from the factory to be as bright as possible on the showroom floor (brighter TVs sell better). Because of this we have become accustomed to watching pictures with incorrect colors that are too bright. A calibrator can make bad performers out of the box look OK, and good performers look even better. His main goals are to make colors appear more accurate, bring out details in dark scenes, and make the overall picture look sharper.

As long as you are content with your sets Hi Def PQ, I would never tell you a professional calibration is required. But, I have found a discernible improvement with a professional calibration, and would wager you'd be amazed by having your set calibrated to SMPTE standards.

Does any one else out there find it amazing at the all of the technology we posess today and how far televisions have come since it's inception? We can now purchase 4" thick plasma displays that broadcast crystal clear images in upwards of 60+ inches! Yet, we still rely on terrestrial, ugly and sometimes large antennas and have to mess with their position to achieve a HD signal? It seems like we are back in early years of cable when we all had set-top rabbit ears with tin foil!

Just thought that it was funny. You would think this technology would be a little more advanced and easily accessed. LOL.

What I also find funny and ironic is that modern DLP sets rely on an old-fashioned color wheel to split the light into RGB prior to hitting the DMD chip. It's a throwback to the pre-NTSC days and the CBS mechanical "field sequential" color system.
:)

What I also find funny and ironic is that modern DLP sets rely on an old-fashioned color wheel to split the light into RGB prior to hitting the DMD chip. It's a throwback to the pre-NTSC days and the CBS mechanical "field sequential" color system.
:)

That's true, it does seem ancient to use a spinning wheel to produce an HD picture. This is what causes the rainbow effect some see with these sets. Of course the wheel is only needed for one chip models. The 3 chip sets don't have the wheel and will probably be the way of the future.

FSNOhioHD, is rumored to be available when the cavs start playing, and STO is available as a game only channel in HD when the Indians play on channel 96 I believe (one of their specail events channels!)

This is for D* only.

Dish at this point doesn't offer any regional sports networks in HD. They are actually testing a number of them, but currently, Fox Sports Ohio is not one of them and I'm sure they have no interest in STO at this time of the year.

Rijax, thanks for the tip. I've squirreled away the web links you gave, and will approach him with this later. I don't know if he'll do it or not...it'll probably depend on how good it looks to him at home when he gets it set up. But if he has any concerns or whatnot, he'll certainly be able to afford it.

There would certainly be enough "burn in" by the time that guy is in the area.

I do NOT want him (or even me!) calibrating based on test patterns. Even with my own knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster. :D

I do NOT want him (or even me!) calibrating based on test patterns. Even with my own knowledge, it's a recipe for disaster. :D

Recipe for disaster? Hardley, all you really do is adjust the brightness and contrast, at least with my set. Hues and colors remained at factory setting. The length and width of the picture is a bit difficult to adjust but it's not like you screw things up so bad you can't just put it back.

Not a professional job but with a crt hd it works quite well.

Most TVs are preset from the factory to be as bright as possible on the showroom floor (brighter TVs sell better). Because of this we have become accustomed to watching pictures with incorrect colors that are too bright. A calibrator can make bad performers out of the box look OK, and good performers look even better. His main goals are to make colors appear more accurate, bring out details in dark scenes, and make the overall picture look sharper.

As long as you are content with your sets Hi Def PQ, I would never tell you a professional calibration is required. But, I have found a discernible improvement with a professional calibration, and would wager you'd be amazed by having your set calibrated to SMPTE standards.

I do admit that during dark scenes I want to raise the contrast and it's exactly what you are talking about, colors arn't sharp enough.

But for a football game or baseball game, it's perfect. :)

Here are the games I know to be in HD for the Cavs locally, I don't know why every game isn't HD. It's not like we don't have the best/most valuable marketing wise player in the NBA on the team.

11/7 Atlanta
11/21 Memphis
12/1 @ Atlanta
12/11 @ NO/OKC
12/13 Charlotte
12/27 @ Atlanta
12/29 Milwaukee
12/30 @ Chicago

1/2 San Antonio
1/5 @ Milwaukee
1/6 New Jersey
1/16 @ Seattle
1/19 @ Denver
1/30 Golden State
2/27 NO/OKC
3/5 Houston
3/13 Sacramento
3/20 @ Charlotte
3/27 @ Indiana
3/31 @ Chicago

I'm sure they don't have a dedicated HD truck and have to contract it out. I don't disagree that they should though!!!

I'm sure they don't have a dedicated HD truck and have to contract it out. I don't disagree that they should though!!!


Since they're all rentals anyway that shouldn't matter. But they're likely to go with one of two companies and both have access to HD trucks. There's been such an explosion in HD truck building that now to have a team like the Cavs have one for every game is not an issue.

If they wanted to do every game in HD there's the technical ability to do it. Probably comes down to money.

This is for D* only.

Dish at this point doesn't offer any regional sports networks in HD. They are actually testing a number of them, but currently, Fox Sports Ohio is not one of them and I'm sure they have no interest in STO at this time of the year.

Thank you I did forget to mention that.

For all the game show fans here, I have just found out that WEWS is planning to start airing Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD starting the week of 9/25.

HD mm,
Watched some of the Indians last night on HD channel 96. Apparently STO is now being broadcast in HD there. Just started within the last few days.

HD mm,
Watched some of the Indians last night on HD channel 96. Apparently STO is now being broadcast in HD there. Just started within the last few days.

By there do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.

By there do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.

I am wondering the same thing, channel 96 OTA/D*/E* ???? I know the Tribe has been broadcast in HD on NBC periodically throughout the year. Any word if they are doing any more games this season? What about the upcomming MLB playoffs, will they be broadcast primarily on fox hd?

I just bought my plasma last week and have HD via OTA only while I subscribe to SD via Direct TV. (I am still debating between cancelling D* and going with E*)

Update on my OTA: I tinkered with the antenna enough to receive all locals through my OTA. (Pointing North/South I receive abc, fox. Pointing East/West I receive nbc/cbs.) Wow! I couldn't get enough House, Law and Order, Dancing with the Stars. What a difference viewing experience is in High Def! I will watch anything in HD! Lol! Hopefully the novelty doesn't wear off. Looking forward to Sunday Night Football and eventually 24 in HD! Jack Bauer is my hero.

Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I’m no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?

I found an answer to part of my question regarding the Tribe in HD.

The last OTA HD broadcast of the Cleveland Indians on WKYC, 3.1 will be on Sunday October 1st.

Here is a great link to reference all sports games which broadcast in HD.

HD Sports Guide (http://www.hdsportsguide.com/)

All home games were broadcast this year in HD on STO or sometimes WKYC. It's just a question as to whether or not your provider gave you the broadcast.

By there do you mean OTA or Dish/DirecTV? I didn't see STO listed as broadcasting in digital, but maybe it was old info.

Channel 96 is the designated place for STO HD and is only available to DirecTV users with the new MPEG4 equipment. Since I have the old MPEG2 D* receiver, I can't comment on how long or how often D* puts up STO HD on that channel. The SD version of STO is on D* channel 657.

On my cable provider, Wide Open West, channel 221 is STO HD and all the home games in HD are available there. All the Indians games (home and away) are available in SD on WOW channel 72.

Go to www.sportstimeohio.com to select your provider and see what the SD and HD channels are for STO.

Oh, and technically speaking, you can't get STO over-the-air except for when WKYC shows the select few games.

Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I’m no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?

Not only is the signal affected by weather, it is also affected by time of day and content. At night when the atmosphere is lower, your percentages should be higher than in the morning when the atmosphere is higher. Also, there is a lot more information for an HD broadcast than other parts of the day when they use the digital channel for SD material. I began to get errors and lost information during HD and no problems with SD.

So I kept moving my antenna up, down, turned, and in the end I split it into two pieces (a UHF and VHF end) to get the best from all channels. A 95% signal will do very well in bad weather, in the morning, with HD material. A 65% signal will tend to have errors under those conditions.

Greetings from North Ridgeville. I just put up a Channel Master 3016 in my attic to receive local HD broadcasts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very inexpensive antenna allows me to receive a 100% signal on FOX and ABC, and a 65-85% signal on NBC and CBS. I was wondering how the weather can affect the signal strength of OTA. I’m no stranger to satellite (d*) signal loss during rain storms. Is OTA affected equally by rain? Is reception better/worse during particular seasons?

DT OTA seems to be especially crappy and annoying on high wind days.

DT OTA seems to be especially crappy and annoying on high wind days.

Except for lightning, I never notice weather issues with my roof top antenna and OTA HD. But, I do live in North Royalton (around 6 miles from the Parma antenna farm) and all my digital stations register in the "low 90's" on my HD Tivo signal strength reading.

Thanks for the insight guys. That was interesting information on the atmospheric conditions.

If I was able to, I would have had an outdoor antenna long ago, but I live in an apartment where that's not possible. In my opinion, DTV still has a long ways to go (mainly the broadcasters problem and not on my end). I use the silver sensor, which is probably the best indoor antenna I've experienced. It can pick up analogs great, but I often have to fiddle with it a lot to get the digitals I want. It shouldn't be that way. It seems like whenever I can get a decent analog picture, although a bit staticy, I can't get any picture on digital. I'm wondering what the allowable broadcast powers will be after the transition. I've heard that it takes less power with digital because less information is broadcasted, is that true? I'm wondering if it would be a bad thing for a DT UHF station to exceed 1000kw. Are there any opinions on this?

I am wondering the same thing, channel 96 OTA/D*/E* ???? I know the Tribe has been broadcast in HD on NBC periodically throughout the year. Any word if they are doing any more games this season? What about the upcomming MLB playoffs, will they be broadcast primarily on fox hd?

I just bought my plasma last week and have HD via OTA only while I subscribe to SD via Direct TV. (I am still debating between cancelling D* and going with E*)

Update on my OTA: I tinkered with the antenna enough to receive all locals through my OTA. (Pointing North/South I receive abc, fox. Pointing East/West I receive nbc/cbs.) Wow! I couldn't get enough House, Law and Order, Dancing with the Stars. What a difference viewing experience is in High Def! I will watch anything in HD! Lol! Hopefully the novelty doesn't wear off. Looking forward to Sunday Night Football and eventually 24 in HD! Jack Bauer is my hero.

:) Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.

HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i). NBC football for the most part looks good but they still have some blurry graphics issues every once in a while. The OSU ABC game looked good last Saturday.

:) Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.

HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i).

CBS is 1080i. FOX 720p. ABC 720p. NBC 1080i ESPN 720p.

I like FOX best. :)

:) Pretty much how I felt when I fired up my HD for the first time. I'd stay up late to watch Letterman or Leno or anything else I could tune in.

HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i). NBC football for the most part looks good but they still have some blurry graphics issues every once in a while. The OSU ABC game looked good last Saturday.

The Browns game on Fox looked great also. Too bad that's the 1 of 2 times they will be broadcast in HD this year. The other, against the Steelers on NFL Network.

HD football OTA looks good but CBS is the best in my opinion (think they're 720p as opposed to 1080i).

CBS is 1080i, but you're right they do have the best NFL presentation PQ wise IMO.

NFL HD look sbest on CBS because they invested in special Sony Camera's that are just far superior to those used by Fox. This is also the reason why all Fox games are in HD and CBS only has 2 or 3. Camera expense. You be the Judge NFC= almost all games in HD PQ good. AFC= a few games in HD PQ great. I love HD and PQ but I will have to go with fox on this one, they made the right choice. In this day and age with all local games available in local areas, if you have a bad team in the AFC you will not be likely to see HD.

Could not imagine how good CBS's broadcast would look in 720P

Based on this past Sunday games, Fox is now looking better than CBS. I never thought I would say that. Based on my recording of the Chiefs/Bengals game it looks like WOIO (CBS) is not giving full bandwidth to us anymore. The Chiefs/Bengals game on CBS had pixelation that I've never seen before on CBS.

For those of you that can get both the Cleveland stations and WKBN-DT you will be treated to access of 2 extra NFL games this Sunday.

While both WOIO and WKBN will have the same Browns - Bengals game at 1 PM, at 4:15 you will have a choice of KC @ Den (WOIO) or NE @ NYJ (WKBN).

Over on FOX WYFX (WKBN-DT's subchannel 27-2) will have a 1 PM game NYG @ PHI, while WJW willhave AZ @ Sea at 4 PM.

UPDATE (per J.P.Kirby):
WOIO just changed the 4 PM game to NE @ NYJ, so that's one less game for us :(
A bunch of Ohio markets changed this game. The closest market still carrying KC @ DEN is Detroit.

The unfortunate problem is that 27-2 only broadcasts in SD (even though its affiliate FOX is broadcasting most games in HD) while 27-1, which normally broadcasts in HD, is only getting an SD feed from CBS. Too bad it can't be the other way around (at least on the weekends) for us football fans. Can the station switch the HD signal between its sub-channels?

just to update everyone, my AT9 is up on the roof, and the guy did a GREAT job, Two monopoles, Drip loop, and Ground block, all new Compression Fittings, a real nice guy! and my HR20 will be here any time now, any minute I am expecting UPS!

The unfortunate problem is that 27-2 only broadcasts in SD (even though its affiliate FOX is broadcasting most games in HD) while 27-1, which normally broadcasts in HD, is only getting an SD feed from CBS. Too bad it can't be the other way around (at least on the weekends) for us football fans. Can the station switch the HD signal between its sub-channels?HUH? WKBN-DT is in HD on CBS. I watch it nearly every day. Unless there is something different about football games, everything else I've seen that is available in HD on CBS is HD on KBN.

Yes. That's the point. Most of the CBS/AFC games are not broadcast in HD thereby wasting 27-1's HD capability. Conversely, most of the FOX football games are in HD, but 27-2 only broadcasts in SD.