rlockshin]Anyone else having problems with 43-1 and 2
I used to get it on my panasonic and now it says poor picture quality. Signal strength is 77
DTV H20-600 gets it.
Any ideas?

I lost it too, I'm east of Mogadore.

rlockshin]Anyone else having problems with 43-1 and 2
I used to get it on my panasonic and now it says poor picture quality. Signal strength is 77
DTV H20-600 gets it.
Any ideas?

I lost it too, I'm east of Mogadore.

Watched the Ohio State game yesterday. It wasn't HD; but picture was normal for an upconvert (4:3). I'm in N. Royalton and use a rooftop antenna with HD Tivo and SXRD.

This is pretty much shamelessly copied over from another thread, but I thought that you guys could help me out since it is a Cleveland-specific problem...

I live in an apartment in Twinsburg. I am on the second floor with the main window/balcony in the TV room facing southwest, using an RCA ANT537 UHF/VHF antenna. Here are my relevant antennaweb results:

* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 296° 12.7 2
* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 296° 13.0 10
* blue - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 291° 13.9 15
* blue - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 288° 13.7 31

For the past 9 months, I have been receiving 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1. I have never gotten 19.1 despite hours and hours of trying. About 2 weeks ago, 5.1 just stopped coming in, and has not come in since. In that time, I have tried 3 other antennas: a Silver Sensor (with no amp), a Radio Shack 15-1892, and a Phillips 510. None of these have helped me get anything other than 3.1 and 8.1. My question is, would there be any other indoor antenna that might help? Or am I pretty much SOL since I have already tried 4 antennas with the same results? Since I live in an apartment, I need to have a indoor antenna (unless there is a VERY low profile outdoor antenna that will work pointing southwest that I can just put on our balcony).

Thanks for any help you might be able to give.

Stations on a line to the NW were blasting in last night. I noticed that I was receiving all of the analog Toledo stations - 11, 13, 24, 30, 36 - even 40, with Akron's own Ernest Angsley. I was also picking up WXYZ-TV (channel 7 analog) out of Detroit pretty strongly. I started scanning around for long-distance digitals and eventually locked onto WILX-DT (10-1, 10-2, rf 57) and WLNS (6-1, rf 59) out of the Lansing, MI area between 11:30 and midnight.

AdamPS:
I live in Twinsburg on Cannon Road with outdoor antenna and I get 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1,
19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 61.1 solid. I also get 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 67.1 very weak or intermittant most of the time. Once in a while I will get 11, 13 in analog and most of the time 3, 5, 8, 19, 23, 25, 35, 43, 49, 53, 55, 61, 65, 67. The antenna is pointed toward Cleveland in a fixed position.
JJK

I have a question for anyone who gets both OTA and D*'s new MPEG4 locals.

Since 19-1 went multi casting, people have been complaining about the degraded OTA picture. For those who can compare with MPEG4 locals, does it appear that the MPEG4 picture is also degraded; or are they now better than the OTA?

Reason I ask is that it is possible that D* could be getting the signal and encrypting before it was degraded for multi casting. If so, it would be a reason to go MPEG4 locals.

Have any of the REGULAR season Brown's games been broadast in Hi-def on Channel 19 this year? I don't remember one regular season game being broadcast in true Hi-def. I just got in an argument with a guy about this. I know for sure the last 2 have not.

The only Browns game that has been broadcast in HD this year was the opener vs. the New Orleans Saints. That game was broadcast on FOX (8.1) not CBS 19.1.

The only other scheduled game to be in HD this year is the Dec. 7th game against Pittsburgh on the NFL Network.

This is pretty much shamelessly copied over from another thread, but I thought that you guys could help me out since it is a Cleveland-specific problem...

I live in an apartment in Twinsburg. I am on the second floor with the main window/balcony in the TV room facing southwest, using an RCA ANT537 UHF/VHF antenna. Here are my relevant antennaweb results:

* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 296° 12.7 2
* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 296° 13.0 10
* blue - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 291° 13.9 15
* blue - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 288° 13.7 31

For the past 9 months, I have been receiving 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1. I have never gotten 19.1 despite hours and hours of trying. About 2 weeks ago, 5.1 just stopped coming in, and has not come in since. In that time, I have tried 3 other antennas: a Silver Sensor (with no amp), a Radio Shack 15-1892, and a Phillips 510. None of these have helped me get anything other than 3.1 and 8.1. My question is, would there be any other indoor antenna that might help? Or am I pretty much SOL since I have already tried 4 antennas with the same results? Since I live in an apartment, I need to have a indoor antenna (unless there is a VERY low profile outdoor antenna that will work pointing southwest that I can just put on our balcony).

Thanks for any help you might be able to give.
Call Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum.
440-237-6888

Call Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum.
440-237-6888

Thanks. I will give him a shot.

How can you tell that WOIO-DT is broadcasting in 1080i? My tv doesn't tell me if it's 720p or 1080i. When I bought the tv, I tried to pick the one that I thought had the best HD picture. It's a 26" Phillips.

I have a question for anyone who gets both OTA and D*'s new MPEG4 locals.

Since 19-1 went multi casting, people have been complaining about the degraded OTA picture. For those who can compare with MPEG4 locals, does it appear that the MPEG4 picture is also degraded; or are they now better than the OTA?

Reason I ask is that it is possible that D* could be getting the signal and encrypting before it was degraded for multi casting. If so, it would be a reason to go MPEG4 locals.

Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.

How can you tell that WOIO-DT is broadcasting in 1080i? My tv doesn't tell me if it's 720p or 1080i. When I bought the tv, I tried to pick the one that I thought had the best HD picture. It's a 26" Phillips.

720p = FOX, ABC, MY NETWORK, ESPN
1080I= CBS, NBC and everyone else.

If your display doesn't tell you then you probably can only tell from these forums.

For people that have had trouble receiving 43-1 and 2. I was told by engineer at WUAB to rescan channels. They recently switched from 1080i to 720P to accomodate My Network programming

Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.

At its best, it used to be better. ABC and FOX use 720P (i.e., less resolution for those with 1080p or even 1080i sets) and NBC has always been a heavy multicaster. Previously, CBS was the one local station that provided 1080 resolution with no multicasting.

I recently noticed Cox added FSN Ohio HD.

Last night's Columbus Blue Jackets game aired their first local HD game. Tonight's Cavs preaseason will not be HD.

During the day they're airing a Rainbow Network Communications Bethpage, NY, Technical Operations Center slate. Wondering if it's up to the cable company to switch to the SD feed during the day. It's just a looping animated slate with a 15-sec or so music cut that stings and repeats.

Maybe a dedicated channel will mean a better committment from Fox Ohio for HD programs.

Last night, I was barely able to lock onto WKBN-DT for about 15 minutes using my indoor silver sensor and amplifier. Could this have been due to atmospheric conditions?? I've never been able to lock onto this before, and the signal meter wasn't much higher than usual.

Does anyone know how this could be? I didn't notice anything strange with atmospheric conditions, unless anyone else did.

Last night's Columbus Blue Jackets game aired their first local HD game. Tonight's Cavs preaseason will not be HD.



DirecTV carried it on channel 95. I happened to notice it in the guide as a fluke, but I did watch a good portion of it. All cameras were HD except the goal cams, which were a bad stretch of a poor quality camera anyway, and the overhead scoreboard cam, which was done in a pillarbox.

Overall, I was extremely impressed. Of course it doesn't hurt that I'm a big BlueJackets fan, that Nationwide Arena is the single best sports arena I've ever been to, and that Columbus is now leading the division. ;)

I am currently using time warner cable and to be honest since they have shown no signs of upgradding their hardware to passport I just want to implement everything to my mediacenter computer. Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open? I have been playing with OTA at a friends apartment behind Beachwood mall and the results are iffy as far as signal strength so I would rather go QAM I think if all locals are available. Does anyone Have any opinions. I am currently living in a home in Orange so I imagine my OTA signal will be better then his. He is using a $100 plus indoor outdoor panel antenna. Thank you.

Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open?

Here's what I found from a QAM scan on TWC/Adelphia:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8381711&&#post8381711

(Man, I can't believe that it's 13 pages back already. Busy thread.)

Also, try the OnAir Solutions AutumnWave USB tuner. It works right out of the box and is very easy to use. Another bonus is that they have a CSR monitoring this AVS thread for support.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

thank you for the quick reply. Do you think for ota there is something that will get better signal strength then vbox? This autumnwave is qam then I am assuming w/ mce interface looks interesting. If it gets tnt and discovery and the bonus channel for cavs in hd that may be the ultimate solution. I am sick of paying for digi cavble and dvr that is just no good. BTW this box says it does not do QAM in MCE. I read on the other thread u posted that it should work in mce. any ideas?

Not familiar with vbox. The AutumnWave does a nice job with OTA as well.

I'm on WOW cable (no clear QAM) so I have limited experience with this box. Ryan (the CSR) and the others in the AutumnWave thread will be very helpful. I'd recommend getting your basic questions answered, then just pulling the trigger and ordering one from walmart.com (the other vendors may be cheaper, but have harsh restocking fees). If it works out for you, great. Otherwise you're only out the $5.00 for shipping and you can return to a store.

that is probably a good call I am just most concerned about the QAM support in mce2005 other then that all is cake.

That confirms my suspicion that WOIO is allocating less than 15Mbps to the main (HD) channel now. I'm out of town this week so I can't witness this travesty. The era of pristine CBS HD quality in Cleveland is now officially over. Lump them in with the same crap NBC is serving up for live sports.

Forget the 1080p plasma I was going to buy in 2007.... I'm bringing the ED plasma back out of the closet. :(

720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.

If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.

Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?

Last night, I was barely able to lock onto WKBN-DT for about 15 minutes using my indoor silver sensor and amplifier. Could this have been due to atmospheric conditions?? I've never been able to lock onto this before, and the signal meter wasn't much higher than usual.

Does anyone know how this could be? I didn't notice anything strange with atmospheric conditions, unless anyone else did. The atmosphere was definitly helping the distants along last night. Besides WKBN (which I get 24/7 anyway) I was able to get a lock on WFMJ, WPXI, and WQED.

I am currently using time warner cable and to be honest since they have shown no signs of upgradding their hardware to passport I just want to implement everything to my mediacenter computer. Can someone out there using a fusion or other QAM card on time warner in cleveland pleas etell me what stations are indeed open? I have been playing with OTA at a friends apartment behind Beachwood mall and the results are iffy as far as signal strength so I would rather go QAM I think if all locals are available. Does anyone Have any opinions. I am currently living in a home in Orange so I imagine my OTA signal will be better then his. He is using a $100 plus indoor outdoor panel antenna. Thank you.

I have an S3 TiVo and before cable cards were installed I used it as a QAM tuner. Local HD's are availabe, the only one I couldn't get was FOX 8 but for some reason I couldn't pick up that on my scan. I think it's located at 105.1. Discovery, PBS, and TNT are also available.

One other thing: passport is not necessarily an "upgrade", it's just a different type of software other then SARA.

Also you could get an S3 TiVo, if you go to the TiVo Forum there is a link for purchasing one for 699.00.

Here's what I found from a QAM scan on TWC/Adelphia:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8381711&&#post8381711

(Man, I can't believe that it's 13 pages back already. Busy thread.)

Also, try the OnAir Solutions AutumnWave USB tuner. It works right out of the box and is very easy to use. Another bonus is that they have a CSR monitoring this AVS thread for support.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

The only thing I would add is that not all of us on TWC get Discovery HD in the clear. I, unfortunately, get LOGO instead.

The past week or so I've been having trouble receiving 19-1. I live in Cleveland Hts and had been receiving 19-1 without much of a problem since July. I haven't noticed any issues with 3-1, 5-1 or 8-1. Any ideas? I have an internal antenna and point it south west.

720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.

If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.

Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?

As far as pixelization goes, definitely. In also helps that they are 720p.

WOIO has been allocating bandwidth for the new subchannel for at least a couple of months (at least based on recording filesizes on my HTPC). Football is very noticably degraded now as opposed to last year (although nowhere near as bad as SNF on WKYC, which is almost unwatchable IMO). I agree that there is little or no difference in CBS primetime PQ.

That now leaves only WEWS sending out HD in anything close to 19.2Mbps. WJW may not multicast, but the FOX network only sends out approx 9-10Mbps on priime-time shows, maybe 12 or so for football, due to their splicer system - they send out an ATSC-ready stream to their affiliates, and the reduced bitrate probably has to do with accomodating afiiliates who have a lot of subs.

I have an S3 TiVo and before cable cards were installed I used it as a QAM tuner. Local HD's are availabe, the only one I couldn't get was FOX 8 but for some reason I couldn't pick up that on my scan. I think it's located at 105.1. Discovery, PBS, and TNT are also available.

On my Fusion USB HDTV tuner, WJW HD is also not remapping to the proper place.

Adelphia, whenever they set that up, did not properly form the PSIP for WJW's HD channel. The others are perfect. That's the reason you can't get it on the QAM tuner in the TiVo S3. If they'd fix it, you'd be able, but you have the cable cards now. :)

I can get it on my Fusion, it just looks funny in the listing, and isn't grouped with the other OTA HD stations. ("WJW HD - 1052" or something.)

TWC has done nothing significant to change the QAM channels, from what I've seen.

The only thing I would add is that not all of us on TWC get Discovery HD in the clear. I, unfortunately, get LOGO instead.

I get both, and I'm on the same end of the TWC/former Adelphia system as you are, as far as I know.

This may have to do with whatever you're using to tune in QAM...

Although some people can notice a degraded picture on 19-1, I can't tell the difference. It still looks just as good as all other HD.
CBS HD programs on 19-1 definitely look softer now.

Are you up there in Cleveland getting FSN-HD broadcasts for the Columbus Blue Jackets? They just started this past week. Not that I care so much for the Blue Jackets, but I do care about the upcoming college HD games produced by FSN-HD (and so far FSN-Ohio-HD has not been added anywhere in southern Ohio).

As stated earlier, those of us on Cox Cable now have FSNHD and we got the BlueJackets game last Monday night.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/10/exclusive-big-chuck-and-lil-john.html

I remember watching Ghoulardi as a kid then going through the Big Chuck & Hoolihan era. Everytime I hear Rod Stewart's "Maggie May" it reminds me of the end of their show.

Of course the "Certain Ethnic" joke skits were great. Brooklyn's own Mush Mouth Mariano Pacetti eating whole pizzas in less than 60 seconds.

"Certain Ethnic Movers" try to move a dresser but it's too heavy. Stash (loved the hat, cheesy mustache and wide striped sweater) gets a bright idea to take the drawers out. Then proceeds to stack them back on top of the dresser.

Hope they have a nice long send off show and maybe a DVD of some of their best skits.

Good luck to them.

720p, 1080i what's the difference? You get twice the frames per second at 720p, 360 more lines at 1080i, so it should be a wash as far as the data rate goes.

If you did not know the subchannel was there would you even notice the difference? It's all psychological. Until recently WOIO had some serious issues with their digital PQ (on both HD and SD programs) - this was BEFORE 19.2 went on the air. They recently cleaned up their digital signal and added 19.2.

Can any of you honestly say that WEWS and WJW both look better than the rest, just because these two are the only ones without a subchannel?

You get more resolution (1080 lines) with 1080i. No matter what you say, 720p only provides 720 lines of resolution. Sure data rate is fairly close; however, 720p's advantage is with motion. Not resolution! I just played a recording from HD Tivo of the HDNet Test Patterns. Even with HD lite, if I have the Tivo output 1080i, I can clearly read line 10 on their little blurb that shows resolution. With a 720p output, it is fuzzy enough that I would not be able to read it if I didn't know what it says.

With my 60" 1080P SXRD I can definitely tell a difference between OTA 1080i and 720p. I prefer 720p for football; but definitely prefer 1080i for movies/sit coms, etc. I can also tell a difference when they add sub channels because I get more motion artifacts and picture is not as sharp if there is any movement.

I still wonder if the cable and satellite companies get their local feed before or after the stations reduce bit rate to add their sub channels. Various cities/stations do it differently. They can do it via digital lines (capable of preserving the full bit rate for the primary digital channel) or over the air (using the signal that we get with an antenna).

I still wonder if the cable and satellite companies get their local feed before or after the stations reduce bit rate to add their sub channels. Various cities/stations do it differently. They can do it via digital lines (capable of preserving the full bit rate for the primary digital channel) or over the air (using the signal that we get with an antenna).

Sure there are many different transmission paths to get the signal from the station to the cable/sat provider, but very few if any have separate HDTV encoders dedicated to providing the cable/sat provider a separately encoded signal. The local affiliate takes the signal that is provided to them, sends it though their various pieces of equipment and then (in most cases not involving Fox) encodes it for end user consumption.

So unless the station has two separate encoders then the content provider gets the same signal that is sent off to the broadcast tower regardless of transmission method.

Now, would the local affiliate be interested in dropping a considerable amount of money to provide a cable/sat provider a better signal then they provide their direct viewers, probably not. Do cable/sat providers want to pony up the cash to give the station a second encoder so they can have a "marginally" better picture, highly doubtful. That is why I believe there are almost 0 affiliates providing the cable/sat provider a better signal than they broadcast.

That is why I believe there are almost 0 affiliates providing the cable/sat provider a better signal than they broadcast.

Thanks. I imagine that what you say is correct. However, unless I remember something incorrectly (very possible since I'm in my sixties); I've read posts discussing better cable than OTA feeds for the reason discussed in my previous question. Of course, even if my memory is correct; the posters may have been mistaken. I'll try and find one of these earlier posts.

Does anyone know annything about this? It's a very small device that plugs into your computer's USB. It looks very interesting...

"Introducing PCTV HD Pro Stick

Your key to free HDTV
on your PC anywhere.

It's easy to enjoy analog and high-quality digital television in both HD and standard definition with full DVR functionality on your laptop with Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick.

The USB 2.0 powered tuner and mini-remote are conveniently sized for on the go travel. And with pause, TimeShift, and automatic recording functionality, you can access your favorite HD or SD shows wherever, whenever with no service fees.

SRP: $129.99

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or save $30 when you purchase
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$129.99 $99.99

You get more resolution (1080 lines) with 1080i. No matter what you say, 720p only provides 720 lines of resolution. Sure data rate is fairly close; however, 720p's advantage is with motion. Not resolution!

I agree, but for a different reason. Isn't interlaced (alternating of odd and even lines of resolution) shown at twice the "speed" of progressive (both odd and even lines at the same time)? 1080i would show lines 1,3,5,7 and then 2,4,6,8 during the same period of time 720p would show 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Therefore, 720p would have an advantage in terms of motion and 1080i would have better resolution.

But the big advantage of 1080i is that modern HDTVs create 1080p (deinterlaced) from all signals. They put the lines of resolution back so you essentially get all the resolution with the advantages of progressive motion.

Does anyone know annything about this? It's a very small device that plugs into your computer's USB. It looks very interesting...
I can't find anything on this. There is a NY Times article that notes that the receiver probably won't be able to pick up HD signals in a moving object.

Seeing it hasn't been released yet, you won't find much else in reviews. The big issue is how well it's antenna will be able to get a signal... otherwise, you'll need to have an antenna. Sounds tricky to me.

I agree, but for a different reason. Isn't interlaced (alternating of odd and even lines of resolution) shown at twice the "speed" of progressive (both odd and even lines at the same time)? 1080i would show lines 1,3,5,7 and then 2,4,6,8 during the same period of time 720p would show 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. Therefore, 720p would have an advantage in terms of motion and 1080i would have better resolution.

You're on to something, Kinglerch. 720p has better temporal resolution, while 1080i has more spatial resolution. Temporal resolution is the amount of information delivered to your eyeballs for a fixed portion of the screen in a fixed amount of time. This is why it's better for fast-moving sports; the flying football won't flicker.

OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports from both analog and digital would be greatly appreciated.

It's making a big difference here in North Canton. I can now get your digital signal all day using just my indoor rabbit ears. (I used to only be able to get a signal starting around 9 pm that would still drop out occassionally.) Since I can't get WKYC-DT with my indoor antenna, this allows me to now receive a solid signal to view all the NBC HD programming. Thanks.

Thanks. I imagine that what you say is correct. However, unless I remember something incorrectly (very possible since I'm in my sixties); I've read posts discussing better cable than OTA feeds for the reason discussed in my previous question. Of course, even if my memory is correct; the posters may have been mistaken. I'll try and find one of these earlier posts.
I know of only one example where a cable system will be getting a better picture directly from the station that what that station can broadcast OTA:
WYFX the low-power FOX affiliate(s) in Youngstown/Mercer PA will be sending an HDTV feed to local cable systems while the OTA signal is low-power analog on two diffeent channels 17/62, and a digital SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (27.2).

This is an extreme case due to the nature of low-power TV and the lack of an additional full-power channel in the Youngstown market.

That is a big difference compaired to the more subtle difference that any of our full-power HD stations could deliver to the cable and satellite carriers.

BTW: WYFX's SD signal to DirecTV is received OTA via the WKBN-DT subchannel. Prior to WKBN-DT going on the air (it was the last of the Youngstown stations to go OTA digitally) only Dish Network had WYFX. This was due to the location of DirecTV's "POP" (Point of Presence - the local receiving facillity or "LRF" for Youngstown is located in Salem - too far to get a good picture off the analog LP WYFX).

I like torturing myself, so I tossed in a search on WVIZ HD's actual broadcast transmission plans. They updated their website on 9/28/06 (http://wvizpbs.com/digitaltv/index.asp).

Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.
Transmitting tower issues at the main transmitter site in North Royalton need to be resolved before a permanent, full power DTV transmission system can be installed at that location. WVIZ/PBS continues to pursue the resolution of its tower issues and hopes to build its permanent transmission plant in Spring/Summer of 2007.

Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.

Looks like the plans to open up my wallet for their fund drives has also been delayed until spring/summer of 2007. :D

I like torturing myself, so I tossed in a search on WVIZ HD's actual broadcast transmission plans. They updated their website on 9/28/06 (http://wvizpbs.com/digitaltv/index.asp).

Looks like the plans to have the thing up in the spring/summer of 2006 is now spring/summer of 2007.

I don't think WVIZ cares. They've been pushing back that date several times by making the same excuse. They should've been on the air long ago considering that they're in such a large market.

I don't think WVIZ cares. They've been pushing back that date several times by making the same excuse. They should've been on the air long ago considering that they're in such a large market.


We should allow them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that the tower issue is completely within their control. They are trying to lease space on an existing tower site so they're at the mercy of the owner of the tower.

We should allow them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that the tower issue is completely within their control. They are trying to lease space on an existing tower site so they're at the mercy of the owner of the tower.
Maybe some of us should contact the tower owner about this issue. There may be legitimate issues about the abilityof the tower to support a second transmitting antenna. The quick fix would be for ch 25 to "flash cut" to digital. I don't think the tower owners coud dictate what is being transmitted as long as no new hardware was put on the tower. I'm willing to bet the curent ch 25 antenna culd support the digital 26 signal without much modification.

WKBN had a similar issue which was eventually resolved.

Maybe some of us should contact the tower owner about this issue. There may be legitimate issues about the abilityof the tower to support a second transmitting antenna. The quick fix would be for ch 25 to "flash cut" to digital. I don't think the tower owners coud dictate what is being transmitted as long as no new hardware was put on the tower. I'm willing to bet the curent ch 25 antenna culd support the digital 26 signal without much modification.

WKBN had a similar issue which was eventually resolved.

I agree. You have a point here. I wonder what it would take to get some action to get the digital going. I've just been pesimistic about this because WVIZ has said so many times that they would have had the issue resolved, and it has never happened. They have kept changing the date, and it has always gotten my hopes up for nothing. That's why I wouldn't count on their estimated date.

I'm looking forward to seeing some PBS HD nature programs again. Those were always nice to see on WEAO.

For those of you who care, next Sunday's Browns game vs. Denver will be in HD. The game is scheduled for 4:05 p.m. I noticed it today when CBS showed their schedule for next week, showing the HD games.

For those of you who care, next Sunday's Browns game vs. Denver will be in HD. The game is scheduled for 4:05 p.m. I noticed it today when CBS showed their schedule for next week, showing the HD games.
You beat me to it!

Re: Yesterday's KC @ PIT game

WOIO switched to the MIA @ NYJ game half-way trough the 4th quarter, presumably because the game in Pittsburgh was a blow-out. WKBN continued to show the Steelers.

Is it SOP for an affilliate to switch games in the case of a blow-out? I presme that would be a no-no for the stations in the 2 home markets.

I don't know about SOP, but it does happen sometimes. Yes, they couldn't do that for the team markets. In fact, in case of a double header with the home markets having the second game, they must break away from the first game to go to the second, even if the first isn't over.

I guess ESPN had a crazy situation Saturday going from game to game in the 12:00 slot because they were ALL blowouts!




Re: Yesterday's KC @ PIT game

WOIO switched to the MIA @ NYJ game half-way trough the 4th quarter, presumably because the game in Pittsburgh was a blow-out. WKBN continued to show the Steelers.

Is it SOP for an affilliate to switch games in the case of a blow-out? I presme that would be a no-no for the stations in the 2 home markets.

http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/07-CBS.gif
According to the above link WKBN will carry the PIT @ ATL game, in HD at 1:00 PM.
Since CBS only has a singleheader viewers in the Youngstown market would need access to WOIO for the Browns at 4:05 PM.

Since the 4:05 game is in Cleveland WJW will not be allowed to carry the 2nd game of the FOX doubnleheader. WYFX, of course will have both FOX games.

Wide Open West has added WOIO's WeatherNow to the lineup on channel 110. What a waste of bandwidth.

Wide Open West has added WOIO's WeatherNow to the lineup on channel 110. What a waste of bandwidth.

Can anyone seriously tell the difference in picture??? I cannot tell the difference. If you didn't know that there was a subchannel, you probably wouldn't know the difference. CSI still has the best picture of all HD in my opinion, especially CSI Miami with its vibrant color. I think that this program actually has better picture than a lot of Fox 8 and ABC 5 programming, and they don't have subchannels. I like having subchannels with weather, news, music, and more choice. These subchannels have done a lot of good especially for Youngstown viewers, and it's a big reason for why digital broadcasting is so much better than analog. No complaints here.

Anybody know of an online listing that shows the upcoming schedule for FSN HD? Titan doesn't have it. Nor does the FSN site itself.

Thanks.

Anybody know of an online listing that shows the upcoming schedule for FSN HD? Titan doesn't have it. Nor does the FSN site itself.

Thanks.

HD Sports Guide (http://www.hdsportsguide.com/) has your back!

Can anyone seriously tell the difference in picture??? I cannot tell the difference. If you didn't know that there was a subchannel, you probably wouldn't know the difference. CSI still has the best picture of all HD in my opinion, especially CSI Miami with its vibrant color. I think that this program actually has better picture than a lot of Fox 8 and ABC 5 programming, and they don't have subchannels. I like having subchannels with weather, news, music, and more choice. These subchannels have done a lot of good especially for Youngstown viewers, and it's a big reason for why digital broadcasting is so much better than analog. No complaints here.

Slow moving dramas like CSI won't suffer the macroblocking problems that live sports (especially football) suffers with reduced bandwidth.

I noticed the macroblocking on WOIO the first game of the season (Chiefs/Bengals if I remember correctly) At that time the weather channel was not running, but they had already allocated the bandwidth for it.

This Sunday's Browns/Broncos game will be an excellent opportunity to review WOIO's PQ with the new weather subchannel running.

HD Sports Guide (http://www.hdsportsguide.com/) has your back!

Thanks for the info. It's a little hard to read (wish they had a by-channel button), but I did find what I was looking for, I think. Looks like the only thing on FSNHD-Ohio in the next two weeks is the Blue Jackets next Friday.

I was hoping maybe the game tonight from Columbus would be in HD, but I guess not.

I'm with you there. Akron is kind of unique in that I believe it is the largest city without its own local TV newscast. The issues are history (the market has always been centered on Cleveland), geography (AKron is just TOO close to Cleveland to be its own independent market), and politics (Cleveland would fight tooth-and-nail any attempt to break up its DMA).

I thought the 23 News product produced by WKYC was a pretty solid product - no nonsense, local news only - no American Idol crap or interviews with celebrities.

To bring this back on topic - since WKYC-DT runs a subchannel with weather on it 24 hours a day, why not take a couple of half hour blocks (say 7:00 and 10:30) and replace the weather with the WKYC-produced Akron/Canton 23 Newscast?

I think the largest is actually Newark, NJ.

I posted this over on the WS thread, but would like to check with you local guys and see if you notice it.

I'm getting a "static" pulse every couple seconds similar to what I saw on Game 7 from Shea. Most noticeable in the dark areas of the picture. Look at the green padded wall behind the batter or when they show the dark green bushes in center field under the General Motors sign.

Watching WJW-DT via WOW cable, Cleveland, on a 42" HD plasma via component. Very hard to detect the problem on my smaller kitchen countertop 17" LCD.

Also checked via OTA tuner via HDMI and same problem visible.

I posted this over on the WS thread, but would like to check with you local guys and see if you notice it.

I'm getting a "static" pulse every couple seconds similar to what I saw on Game 7 from Shea. Most noticeable in the dark areas of the picture. Look at the green padded wall behind the batter or when they show the dark green bushes in center field under the General Motors sign.

Watching WJW-DT via WOW cable, Cleveland, on a 42" HD plasma via component. Very hard to detect the problem on my smaller kitchen countertop 17" LCD.

Also checked via OTA tuner via HDMI and same problem visible.

I just looked at the game for about an inning, saw the score and decided to do other things, but wow....what a picture. No problems that I could see. Except that lady who sang God Bless America blew the last note. :)

For anyone down the road who might search for this info, I thought I'd post my thoughts on Armstrong Cable here in Medina. I switched from DirecTV a little over a week ago, and mostly I'm pretty happy.

It started with a dish buy-back deal that was too good to pass up: twelve months of digital cable, two DVRs (one with HD), Zoom Internet 500, and unlimited local and long distance phone for $89. After that it will switch to about $158 per month.

The equipment is an Arris MTU (with 8-hour UPS built in) to handle the phone and internet along with two Motorola 3416 boxes. They're all digital (they mirror all channels 1-63 with the digital feed) and do not have analog tuners. I won't go into detail, but they have 160 gig drives. Like someone else said, they may not be perfect, but since they are my first DVR units I'm happy. They're tremendously easy to operate.

HD offerings include local 3, 5, 8, 19, and PBS. Other HD includes TNT, UHD, HDNet and HDNet Movies, FSN HD, ESPN, WealthTV, HBO, Showtime, Starz, and Cinemax. After an initial mixup in which they had the DVR connected to the analog TV as being the one authorized for HD, I'm now getting it they way it should be. It should be noted that both boxes, even when connected to an analog TV, will receive and downconvert the locals and other HD offerings that are not part of the "HD Advantage Pack." All but about 3 or 4 channels come through on both TVs. Picture quality is excellent.

Speaking of picture quality, I find it to be much more consistent than what I experienced with D*. I never noticed any issues with D*'s HD stuff, but the regular SD digital channels were so highly compressed that I now realize there was a lot of detail missing. I can even notice the difference on the analog set.

Armstrong also offers an analog signal for no extra cost for any TV in the house. I am extremely impressed at the signal quality on the analog stuff. I may actually use the PiP feature again!

The install went great. The guys spent extra time trying to fix some static in the phone line that I thought had been caused by a previous homeowner who had cut a small piece of the wiring in the basement to run another outlet down there. Again, I won't go into details. But even though the guys weren't able to fix it, I felt like they really tried by trying alternate wiring pairs and running signal testers all over the house.

As far as Armstrong's implementation of the Motorola boxes go, the 30-second-skip macro does not work. That's a bummer, but it's made up for by the fact that recording over firewire works flawlessly. I've been able to record SD digitals, locals, local HD, and Video On Demand movies. I have not yet tried DVR'd material from HBO, but I did notice last night that a live broadcast of HBO HD was 5C encrypted.

The only "problem" that I've experienced was that none of the premium service VoD channels would work after the installers left. It kept giving me a message that I needed to purchase the service even though it comes "free" with subscription to the channels themselves (HBO, Cinemax, Starz, and Showtime including TMC.) The customer service folks tried resetting the boxes, but nothing would help. Finally I called to let them know that the upper digitals (channels 483 through 500) weren't coming in either, so they should add that note to the scheduled service visit. They informed me that those channels are now part of a "Digital II" tier that was never disclosed. It's an extra $4 per month, but because it includes Versus (I'm a hockey fan), I told them to go ahead and add it. The VoD channels then started working after that. They very well might not be connected to each other, but I have a sneaking suspicion that something was set incorrectly on their system that unauthorized the premium VoD channels when those upper digitals were locked out. I also have the feeling that the Digital II tier is brand new, and all of the kinks may not be worked out yet.

All in all, it's been a good move. For the price, I'm very happy. And for the most important factor, even my wife has been impressed. She's already amassed quite a DVR library of movies. And since I can dump those to DVD and maintain the DD 5.1 through the firewire connection, I guess the fact that the DVR is about 40% full on about 30 hours of (mostly) SD material doesn't really bother me.

I have no problem with the picture of the Series game OTA.

JJK

WOIO keeps forgetting to flip the HD switch on the NFL Today pregame show.

As I type this I see someone woke them up, now it's HD.

Just checked "Ghost whisperer" from ota last Friday on the DVR and the first 10mins. has audio but no video with a message "loss of input signal"? Looks like they fixed it.

Two Sunday's ago they forgot to flip the switch for the entire prime time schedule. Since the Sunday evening schedule frequently slips because of games extending beyond 7:00 PM, there must be something unusual about how they initiate HD on Sunday nights. Whatever the issue, they are incompetent.

I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.

Just checked "Ghost whisperer" from ota last Friday on the DVR and the first 10mins. has audio but no video with a message "loss of input signal"? Looks like they fixed it.

Thanks for the heads up Tom. I got the same thing to via TW.

I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.

Yes and it seems to happen during non football season as well. Any sporting event that runs 60 minutes back and we don't get the HD feed.

I've changed all my recordings on CBS on Sunday to SD because of this. No need in wasting disk space.

Thanks for the heads up Tom. I got the same thing to via TW.

I wondered if you had the same thing on the new Tivo via cable. Luckily it happened at the beginning and not the end. thx for posting.

I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.

You may be right; but I can't imagine why that would be a technical requirement.

I believe that, anytime the football game runs late, for whatever reason there will be no HD feed the rest of the evening.

I think it's because the local station doesn't have the equipment to tape delay the prime time HD programming, they can only record in SD mode.

The Browns game PQ looked very good today on WOIO, even with the weather subchannel. I wonder why CBS can do a better job than NBC with the limited bandwidth? Must be better encoders I guess. NBC Sunday Night Football (and all NBC's other sports programming) has so many PQ problems with WeatherPlus running.

The Browns game PQ looked very good today on WOIO, even with the weather subchannel. I wonder why CBS can do a better job than NBC with the limited bandwidth? Must be better encoders I guess. NBC Sunday Night Football (and all NBC's other sports programming) has so many PQ problems with WeatherPlus running.

There was some pixelization and "mosquito noise" on some fast-moving shots, and it didn't really have that "looking out a window" clarity that CBS football on WOIO used to have.

Totally agree about NBC SNF - it only looks good if eveything is absolutely still, and badly pixellates with any motion at all.

I think it's because the local station doesn't have the equipment to tape delay the prime time HD programming, they can only record in SD mode.

I'll sell them my HD-Tivo for cheap. (ha, ha) Seriously, it can't be that hard/expensive.

I'll sell them my HD-Tivo for cheap. (ha, ha) Seriously, it can't be that hard/expensive.
Stations have to record a much higher bitrate stream than what they pump out to the end user so the storage space required is much larger than you might think.

Since there are very few stations that have the ability to timeshift HD programing it must be that hard/expensive to do.

terryfoster, I assume then you have the same situation in the Cinci area as well with no HD after football?

Also discussing the same thing on the TiVo boards the other day apparently O&O CBS affiliates do show the remaining broadcasts in HD.

It would appear from another user's complaints that we also lacked HD for the evening. Probably screwed up my recording of Amazing Race too.

terryfoster, I assume then you have the same situation in the Cinci area as well with no HD after football?

Also discussing the same thing on the TiVo boards the other day apparently O&O CBS affiliates do show the remaining broadcasts in HD.

Our local CBS affiliate is cheap, cheap, cheap!! That's why we still have no DD 5.1 sound from them. So, we'll probably go forever without HD on Sunday evenings during football season.

Expensive? Remember that anything those tv stations purchase starts at $30,000.00.

JJK

Expensive? Remember that anything those tv stations purchase starts at $30,000.00.

JJK

I've read where that is the approximate cost of the DD 5.1 capability. Now, that may be a lot on my budget; but it should not be too much for a major network affiliate in a top 20 market.

That only proves that squeezing a few more bucks into the bottom line is more important than providing a quality product. They can survive with a lack of concern for quality because of the fact that they have a monopoly (only CBS programming in the Cleveland market).

At least NBC and Fox have 5.1; and ABC is working on it. It appears that they care about their product. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about our CBS station.

Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.

Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.

From what I hear I wouldn't expect it to get better. I caught a report on CNN this weekend talking about how NBC is planning on reducing their budget by offering more game/reality shows and perhaps cutting primetime hours down to two a night following FOX's lead.

Of course what we really are talking about is Raycom and anyone who knows anything around town about them knows they are cheap.

Budgets are budgets and when they look at dropping $30K on a device that "marginally" improves their HD product that is viewed by the vast minority of their viewers the choice becomes very simple.

I don't know what you consider marginal. But how is this? Lets say their station is valued at $10 million (I would presume that this is very conservative). A $30k investment is .003% of current value. Now that is truly marginal.

How marginal is the value of DD 5.1? If I were renting a DVD and had a choice between one at $4.00 with DD 5.1 and one at $3.50 with only stereo; I would definitely pay the $4.00. If DD 5.1 were not of marginal value, would basically all movies and DVD's include the multiple channel soundtrack? Would the networks provide basically all their primetime HD programming with DD 5.1 sound? Would DD 5.1 have been written into the HD broadcasting standard? Would the other three network stations in Cleveland have considered the expense justified?

So if you are talking about a marginal impact, it would seem clear to me that the definition is met by the increased cost and not by the increased functionality.

Once again, the CBS affiliate doesn't care about the quality of their product.

Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.

If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know what you consider marginal. But how is this? Lets say their station is valued at $10 million (I would presume that this is very conservative). A $30k investment is .003% of current value. Now that is truly marginal.

...

So if you are talking about a marginal impact, it would seem clear to me that the definition is met by the increased cost and not by the increased functionality.

Once again, the CBS affiliate doesn't care about the quality of their product.

Does the lack of DD5.1 keep you from seeing or hearing the broadcast your local affiliate provides? DD5.1 is a bonus feature and is why having it makes their product "marginally" better. It's a nice to have feature, but not required to be ATSC compliant. Sure I would like all my shows to be presented in DD5.1, but am I going to stop watching a show that I watched before I got a HDTV/Surround system just because it isn't in DD5.1? No.

You need to step back and look at the big picture. Do you really believe that HDTV owners that also have DD5.1 and are able to get HD delivered to their HDTV are the majority of your affiliate's viewers?

Since the addition of DD5.1 impacts so few viewers and the lack of it doesn't drive viewers away, it is probably a low priority item on their budget.

Here's a bugetary question to put this in perspective. Would you rather they invest in DD5.1 OR in HD time shifiting equipment so their sunday night lineup doesn't get killed due to football? Since we're not on the board of any affiliate we have no idea what their budget is and the funds they have available to invest in new equipment.

Does the lack of DD5.1 keep you from seeing or hearing the broadcast your local affiliate provides? DD5.1 is a bonus feature and is why having it makes their product "marginally" better. It's a nice to have feature, but not required to be ATSC compliant. Sure I would like all my shows to be presented in DD5.1, but am I going to stop watching a show that I watched before I got a HDTV/Surround system just because it isn't in DD5.1? No.

You need to step back and look at the big picture. Do you really believe that HDTV owners that also have DD5.1 and are able to get HD delivered to their HDTV are the majority of your affiliate's viewers?

Since the addition of DD5.1 impacts so few viewers and the lack of it doesn't drive viewers away, it is probably a low priority item on their budget.

Here's a bugetary question to put this in perspective. Would you rather they invest in DD5.1 OR in HD time shifiting equipment so their sunday night lineup doesn't get killed due to football? Since we're not on the board of any affiliate we have no idea what their budget is and the funds they have available to invest in new equipment.

I know you and I aren't going to stop watching their shows (assuming we like them) because they aren't in DD 5.1. That is what they depend on. Like I said, they have a quasi monopoly in the Cleveland market and don't care about the quality of their product. Your defense of their decision should make them happy.

I know that HD/DD 5.1 viewers are not the majority of their audience (although it is a constantly increasing percentage). But those viewers also aren't the majority of the market for the other Cleveland network stations, for the 4 national networks, for CBS O&O stations, for DVD providers, etc.; but all of them made the decision to make the investment in DD 5.1 sound. They obviously had the desire to provide a quality product.

I'll answer your budgetary question by asking another question. Why should the improved quality be limited to only one of the two?

No, I'm not on their board and I don't develop/defend their budget. But the issue is what they choose to "make available" and not what they "have available" in the final budget. I'm not blaming the Station Engineer if his budget doesn't included needed equipment upgrades (except for the fact that he may have been a poor "advocate" in the budget formulation process). I am blaming the Geneal Manager and Board if they are the cause for failing to invest in equipment that provides their customers a quality product. They are the "Lone Ranger" in this issue. Their own network and the other Cleveland stations have chosen otherwise.

As a customer, why would you defend the one organization, in an industry providing a product to us, that has chosen to not strive for quality?

Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.

If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.

I totally agree with you. However, 60 Minutes is too "big a deal" on CBS for them to do this. They would have a total revolt in their News Division if that happened. Would impact their ability to sway elections with their biased reporting (e.g., the fake Texas Air National guard memos).

I do base decisions on what show I want to watch based on DD 5.1. Let's say we got a show on NBC that is in HD 5.1. If CBS is offering something else I like and FOX is at the same time as well, the CBS loses. This doesn't happen very often but it happend a few times last year.

And can you just imagine how cool CSI, any of them, would be in Dolby 5.1. :)

As a customer, why would you defend the one organization, in an industry providing a product to us, that has chosen to not strive for quality?
Because in reality there is little we can do about such problems and I'm providing reasons as to why you shouldn't expect so much from your affiliates.

I'm not saying this problem is limited to you or that I personally am exempt, but we expect companies to provide the best service they can and do it TODAY regardless of cost. There is so much expense in making this transition to digital broadcasts.

I mean, you have to admit since the time you became a member in this forum you've seen vast changes in quality of each of the affiliate's product. I would think you would be aware that it takes time to make these improvements.

I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

Because in reality there is little we can do about such problems and I'm providing reasons as to why you shouldn't expect so much from your affiliates.

I'm not saying this problem is limited to you or that I personally am exempt, but we expect companies to provide the best service they can and do it TODAY regardless of cost. There is so much expense in making this transition to digital broadcasts.

I mean, you have to admit since the time you became a member in this forum you've seen vast changes in quality of each of the affiliate's product. I would think you would be aware that it takes time to make these improvements.

I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that's how it is.

Our "poor little affiliate" is owned by Raycom Media. Below is a recent business article:
MONTGOMERY, Alabama, HOFFMAN ESTATES, Illinois and NEW YORK, New York - August 11, 2006 -- Barrington Broadcasting Group and Raycom Media, Inc announced today that they have completed a transaction for Barrington to acquire twelve Raycom television stations in nine markets for a combined purchase price of $262 million.

All the above stations are in markets significantly smaller than Cleveland. Therefore, I would conservatively estimate that the Cleveland station is worth over $30 million. Raycom still owns around 30 other television stations.

Do you really believe that if Raycom cared about quality they could not afford $30k per station for providing DD 5.1 sound? I seriously doubt it! Barrington would not be paying close to $30 million per station if they are losing money.

Bottom line: We are just unlucky enough in Cleveland to have the CBS affiliate owned by a company that apparently cares everything about profits and apparently little for the quality of their product.

Does anyone know if the HD feeds of CBS on TW cable are in DD 5.1? I'm almost positive they are. Speaking from the production side it is a crying shame all the work and time and money which goes into the mixing of a great 5.1 soundtrack is flushed at the local level. Almost as frustrating as seeing something shot on film and transferred to HD being broadcast in SD because someone is too lazy to flip the right switch in the local control room. Rlb's point is a good one. Audio is important and usually gets too little attention from the local affiliate. How would we feel about about a color show being broadcast in B&W? We would of course be outraged. Audio should be broadcast the way the director created it.

No. That is what was being discussed in the page or so of posts above yours.

On my recording of CSI Miami from last night, recorded from TW cable, the DD Digital light comes on my amplifier and it sounds pretty darn 5.1 to me. Perhaps it is only digital and not Dolby? Is it possible the 5.1 is not broadcast but does pass through on the cable feed?

On my recording of CSI Miami from last night, recorded from TW cable, the DD Digital light comes on my amplifier and it sounds pretty darn 5.1 to me. Perhaps it is only digital and not Dolby? Is it possible the 5.1 is not broadcast but does pass through on the cable feed?

I've been advised that it doesn't happen. You are probably getting DD 2.0.0 and your receiver is taking the two channel signal and mixing one of the forms of pro logic.

Telosian has your package arrived yet? :)

Fellow WOW cable subscribers:

I just spoke with WOW customer service to see if there were any plans to make WVIZ-HD available in the near future. According to the CSR, WOW has been unable to reach an agreement with WVIZ, but more customer requests would give WOW the incentive to work harder on finalizing a deal.

So, I guess I'll put out the call-to-action for the WOW subscribers who are interested in WVIZ-HD to contact the company and request the channel be added. It would be great to add that the basic tier of their competitor, Adelphia/TWC, also includes TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, and the HD Bonus channel for sports.

Of course, for those of you who may be on satellite or with another cable carrier, but are considering switching to WOW, it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line saying that you would look favorably upon them becoming more comparable with Adelphia/TWC on their basic HD tier including the channels noted above.

Here are links to contact WOW and thanks in advance to those of you who will help.

Request a Channel - Online Form:
http://www1.wowway.com/wowform.asp?questid=channel

Customer Support:
866-496-9669

Yes, Hookbill, you are nice to ask. It arrived today. I set it up tonight and TW comes out tomorrow for install of cable cards per your instructions.

rlb, there are a lot of dynamics in the track, and a lot of efx coming from the rear speakers. You may in fact be correct and my amp is creating a fake dolby sound field, but I thought the DD Red light only comes on if it is getting true 5.1. I'm curious about if there is a way to test this? I'll check my amp specs and find out if a digital stereo feed will cause the DD 5.1 light to come on.

Yes, Hookbill, you are nice to ask. It arrived today. I set it up tonight and TW comes out tomorrow for install of cable cards per your instructions.

rlb, there are a lot of dynamics in the track, and a lot of efx coming from the rear speakers. You may in fact be correct and my amp is creating a fake dolby sound field, but I thought the DD Red light only comes on if it is getting true 5.1. I'm curious about if there is a way to test this? I'll check my amp specs and find out if a digital stereo feed will cause the DD 5.1 light to come on.

Telosian first congratulations. Hope everything goes well tomorrow. Make sure you hand him the sheet that comes with the S3, it has easy to follow instructions. The help I gave you should be just to make sure he does it correctly.

rlb is correct, WOIO does not broadcast in Dolby 5.1. On my receiver I have a read out and it reads Dolby 2.0 which is why your dolby light is lighting up. It probably lights to any Dolby signal.

If you want to you can put your tv on live at any time of the day and tune to channel 4 (or whatever WOIO is in your area) and you should get a dolby signal there as well. Any digital channel gives out a dolby signal.

Fellow WOW cable subscribers:

I just spoke with WOW customer service to see if there were any plans to make WVIZ-HD available in the near future. According to the CSR, WOW has been unable to reach an agreement with WVIZ, but more customer requests would give WOW the incentive to work harder on finalizing a deal.

So, I guess I'll put out the call-to-action for the WOW subscribers who are interested in WVIZ-HD to contact the company and request the channel be added. It would be great to add that the basic tier of their competitor, Adelphia/TWC, also includes TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, and the HD Bonus channel for sports.

Of course, for those of you who may be on satellite or with another cable carrier, but are considering switching to WOW, it wouldn't hurt to drop them a line saying that you would look favorably upon them becoming more comparable with Adelphia/TWC on their basic HD tier including the channels noted above.

Here are links to contact WOW and thanks in advance to those of you who will help.

Request a Channel - Online Form:
http://www1.wowway.com/wowform.asp?questid=channel

Customer Support:
866-496-9669

They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.

What's strange is WOW lists WOSU-HD (PBS Columbus) in the Cleveland channel lineup on their website, obviously a mistake.
Edit: I see they overhauled the website, and also fixed the channel lineup for Cleveland...

We get TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, FSNOH-HD, and STOHD so I can't really complain about it not being in the basic tier. I would be paying for the HD tier ESPNHD is in anyway...

They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.

What's strange is WOW lists WOSU-HD (PBS Columbus) in the Cleveland channel lineup on their website, obviously a mistake.
Edit: I see they overhauled the website, and also fixed the channel lineup for Cleveland...




Time Warner (Adelphia) has WVIZ HD as part of their HD packager. Apparently they can hook up directly to the cable company without OTA broadcasting. This is the same thing that WBNX is plainning to do in November.


Also TW list WNEO HD in their listings however it is not available just yet.

WEWS chief engineer is John Workman.
Anyone else notice that WKYC takes a little longer to pop in. I have spoken with Rex, I know him personally and they are aware of the problem. It is a PSIP problem and they do not know how to solve it. Also bad weather does affect their signal more than others. Do not be fooled by claims that digital signals are not affected by rain. They are. Keep this group running!!!
I do not think anyone in Cleve is broadcasting DD 5.1. If they are let me know.

Cleveland's Fox and NBC stations broadcast 5.1 when it is provided by the network. As noted, ABC will soon join them. Our CBS affiliate could care less.

They need to "reach an agreement"? I assumed WOW didn't have WVIZ HD because of WVIZ's wimpy transmitter and WOW not being able to pick up the signal, nor wanting to invest in a fiber feed.

The CSR's response made it seem like it was a contractual issue between WVIZ and WOW, not a general cost/tech issue (although I'm sure that it would be a concern). In any case, more customer requests would raise the priority, so any calls/e-mails would be appreciated.

We get TNTHD, DiscoveryHD, FSNOH-HD, and STOHD so I can't really complain about it not being in the basic tier.

You're not talking about WOW are you? While STO-HD is part of basic, TNT-HD and Discovery-HD are part of the upper-tier, and FSNOH-HD doesn't show up in the channel list.

Here's another side of the coin. How about blaming CBS? When FOX goes into the evening with football their programs are "joined in progress." Why not join 60 minutes in progress? Not every story they carry is of interest to everyone. I'm sure the piece on some opera singer could be held back until lets say next summer.

If CBS did this then this problem of no HD on Sundays wouldn't be a problem.
This is definitly a CBS problem. The delay of network programming is sent via a seperate feed from CBS. It has been mentioned before that CBS can only handle 3 NFL games in HD per week due to lack of capacity at the CBS network master control.

If you look at the CBS NFL schedule they actually carry only 2 NFL games in HD at the same time (i.e. the early game), the 3rd game is a late game (as was the Broncos v Browns). Whenever the late game is a "national" game (or CBS has the double header) it's no problem, everybody gets 60 minuites delayed at the same rate, since NFL viewers will see "bonus" coverage until the final late game ends.

Last Sunday CBS only had a singleheader. WKBN-DT carryed the Steelers in HD (an early game) and WOIO carried the Browns (a late game). 60 Minutes started on time on WKBN-DT and the rest of the evening was in true HD (and DD 5.1) while the WOIO feed was SD all the way :p

By the way, if you are located inside this circle you may be able to get WKBN-DT OTA in all it's HD and 5.1 glory:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Great post Michael! Map very helpful. I'll try to pull in WKBN. I think it really makes rlb's point that the Youngstown affiliate has 5.1 and the Cleveland station does not. Which would you rather watch and listen to?

Great post Michael! Map very helpful. I'll try to pull in WKBN. I think it really makes rlb's point that the Youngstown affiliate has 5.1 and the Cleveland station does not. Which would you rather watch and listen to?

And now that you have an S3 it should be easier for you to do. Many people on the TiVo forum are reporting that reception OTA on the S3 is far superior to anything else out there. Many reporting just a set of rat shack rabbit ears are enough.

hookbill:
So you are saying the S3 can pick up OTA, & cable? And better than my LG 3510a? I might have to look into that.
JJK

Time Warner (Adelphia) has WVIZ HD as part of their HD packager. Apparently they can hook up directly to the cable company without OTA broadcasting. This is the same thing that WBNX is plainning to do in November.

I once thought the WVIZ HD feed to Adelphia was via fiber, but I believe WVIZ's chief engineer said that Adelphia (now TWC/Cleveland) is picking them up OTA, even with the current signal deficiency.

With a high enough antenna and professional equipment, that should still be possible.

WBNX won't even be putting out an OTA signal until next Spring, so they'll have to do the fiber thing if they're planning on showing up on TWC or other cable companies in the next week or two...

Last Sunday CBS only had a singleheader. WKBN-DT carryed the Steelers in HD (an early game) and WOIO carried the Browns (a late game). 60 Minutes started on time on WKBN-DT and the rest of the evening was in true HD (and DD 5.1) while the WOIO feed was SD all the way :p

By the way, if you are located inside this circle you may be able to get WKBN-DT OTA in all it's HD and 5.1 glory:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

As word gets out about the possibility of Cleveland, Akron and Canton viewers being able to pick up WKBN-DT, does anyone think WOIO-DT will respond by increasing their power and switching to a UHF frequency in 2009? Will WKBN-DT's footprint significantly cut into WOIO-DT's viewership numbers?

hookbill:
So you are saying the S3 can pick up OTA, & cable? And better than my LG 3510a? I might have to look into that.
JJK

I haven't tried OTA myself because my wife is anti antennae. But from what I'm reading on the TiVo boards and reviews I've read on the internet it has the best OTA reception of any STB out there on the market. As I said, people are reporting great OTA reception with cheap rabbit ears. And yes you can have both OTA and cable at the same time.

In addition it comes with a program guide for OTA so if you make that selection you can do dual recordings OTA. Or you can record cable and OTA. OTA is a great back up if the cable goes out too.

Pretty cool, huh?

hookbill:
Yeah. But silently wondering if it works as a tuner also and I'm into anything that improves the OTA performance. If I want to record anything I use the MY-HD 120 card which performs flawlessly at 720P. I did briefly check their (S3)website but 700 bucks is substantial. I do not have cable.

JJK

Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)



Our "poor little affiliate" is owned by Raycom Media. Below is a recent business article:
MONTGOMERY, Alabama, HOFFMAN ESTATES, Illinois and NEW YORK, New York - August 11, 2006 -- Barrington Broadcasting Group and Raycom Media, Inc announced today that they have completed a transaction for Barrington to acquire twelve Raycom television stations in nine markets for a combined purchase price of $262 million.

All the above stations are in markets significantly smaller than Cleveland. Therefore, I would conservatively estimate that the Cleveland station is worth over $30 million. Raycom still owns around 30 other television stations.

Do you really believe that if Raycom cared about quality they could not afford $30k per station for providing DD 5.1 sound? I seriously doubt it! Barrington would not be paying close to $30 million per station if they are losing money.

Bottom line: We are just unlucky enough in Cleveland to have the CBS affiliate owned by a company that apparently cares everything about profits and apparently little for the quality of their product.

hookbill:
Yeah. But silently wondering if it works as a tuner also and I'm into anything that improves the OTA performance. If I want to record anything I use the MY-HD 120 card which performs flawlessly at 720P. I did briefly check their (S3)website but 700 bucks is substantial. I do not have cable.

JJK

Yes, you can use it as just a tuner as well. Several people do just that. But you can record with it as well if you desire, it is the only tuner that is THX rated and its encoding is excellent. It allows you to choose which mode you want to record/recieve in. However as you say for just a tuner it is awful expensive.

hdsportsguide shows tonight's Cavs Game being broadcast on HDnet Regionally . Anyone know if Time Warner will be showing the Feed? I know in the past HDnet wasn't shown because of no contract with NBA channel; but now we have NBA channel.

It looks like if we don't see the game on HDNet we won't get to see it at all :(

hdsportsguide shows tonight's Cavs Game being broadcast on HDnet Regionally . Anyone know if Time Warner will be showing the Feed? I know in the past HDnet wasn't shown because of no contract with NBA channel; but now we have NBA channel.

It looks like if we don't see the game on HDNet we won't get to see it at all :(

It's not on Zap2it.com's listings for this evening. I'd say it's not being shown here.

Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)

WTOL became part of Raycom around a year ago. Prior to that it was part of Liberty Corp which merged with Raycom. Believe the DD 5.1 implementation was prior to the merger. Bottom line: Raycom did not approve the expenditure for DD 5.1.

By the way, the following CBS programs are provided with DD 5.1 by the network:
Close to Home
Cold Case
Criminal Minds
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
CSI: Miami
CSI: NY
Ghost Whisperer
How I Met Your Mother
NCIS
Numb3rs
Still Standing
The Courier
The King of Queens
The New Adventures of Old Christine
The Unit
Two and a Half Men
Without a Trace

Thanks to cheap WOIO/Raycom, we get to hear them in low tech stereo.

As word gets out about the possibility of Cleveland, Akron and Canton viewers being able to pick up WKBN-DT, does anyone think WOIO-DT will respond by increasing their power and switching to a UHF frequency in 2009? Will WKBN-DT's footprint significantly cut into WOIO-DT's viewership numbers?
Unfortunately the vast majority of television viewers still are not set-up for digital OTA, nor will they ever be if the cable systems have their way. The only way for WKBN to cut into WOIO's viewership is if the word gets out that digital OTA rocks and a cheap digital tuner (and a great antenna to go with it) his the market - soon.

As far as WOIO-DT upping thier power - forgetaboutit! As long as they insist on staying on Rf ch 10 they are stuck, thanks to Canada's slow ASTC roll-out. Raycom has already booted WBNS off ch 10 in Columbus (that is WBNS is not being allowed to put their digital signal on Rf ch 10 after the transition ends). WBNS was on ch 10 DECADES before WOIO even existed. It's a shame WOIO / Raycom chose this unnecssary tactic to get a "high VHF" frequency where their power bill won't be as high as the compitition. Ultimately they have shot themselves in the foot because CFPL-TV 10 (London Ontario) is not going away anytime soon, not even after the U.S.A. shuts off the analog signals.

WOIO is better off on 19 from a market standpoint. That way all the major network stations would be near each other in the RF spectrum: WEWS 15, WKYC 17, WOIO 19... That makes too much sense, and as we have seen before there is not much sense going around at WOIO.

One more thing about WOIO and taking market share: Anybody notice that one of their remote weather reporting stations is in Cardington, OH? Where is Cardington, you say? Why in the Columbus DMA! There is no way their piddly Rf 10 digital signal is going to make it anywhere near Mansfield, let alone one county farther away. They obviously have viewers down there watching their analog signal (or via cable on a significantly-viewed status) why else did they bother to put up a weather reporting site there? They cannot complain if they loose viewers to WKBN as long as they are courting viewers in Morrow County.

They can stop Dish Network from delivering out-of-market signals, however they cannot stop us from watching OTA!

Raycom owns WTOL (Toledo CBS affiliate) and they have DD 5.1. ( I know because I can get them during atmospheric skips)
I know the engineer at WTOL. The reason they have DD 5.1 is that they had it prior to being bought by Raycom.
Raycom did not put in 5.1 at the station.
So please do not get your hopes up for our WOIO.
Sorry to douse everyone's hopes.

I know the engineer at WTOL. The reason they have DD 5.1 is that they had it prior to being bought by Raycom.
Raycom did not put in 5.1 at the station.
So please do not get your hopes up for our WOIO.
Sorry to douse everyone's hopes.


It may not happen this year or even the next 5 years but eventually they will go to DD 5.1. Why do I say that? Because I honestly don't think that CBS is going to put up with it. Networks have a lot of power with their affiliates and eventually CBS will drop the hammer. Specially if WEWS hooks up DD 5.1, and I kind of believe that when I see it. :)

rlb, I share your pain on the local CBS situation and am trying to pull in WTOL or WKBN (so far not much luck). On the positive side, which shows do you watch where you really enjoy the 5.1 soundtrack? I think all of us would enjoy your list of favorites. Let's give some credit and attention to the folks (both producers and broadcasters) doing it right.

rlb, I share your pain on the local CBS situation and am trying to pull in WTOL or WKBN (so far not much luck). On the positive side, which shows do you watch where you really enjoy the 5.1 soundtrack? I think all of us would enjoy your list of favorites. Let's give some credit and attention to the folks (both producers and broadcasters) doing it right.


Following provides shows broadcast in DD 5.1 as of Aug 2006 (so doesn't include new Fall 2006 shows):
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/tv_listings.html#shows

I believe DD 5.1 obviously adds more to the action/drama shows. For some reason the above site does not list Fox shows. It definitely adds a lot with "24" and I think they do a pretty good job on "Prison Break". Some of the best is with the HBO original programming like the "Sopranos" and "Deadwood" was great. "Rome" should be starting again pretty soon.

However, I believe one of the keys with DD 5.1 is that even on programming like the sit coms, everything is a little "sharper" than what PLII provides with it's mixing process.

I hate to "beat a dead horse"; but unfortunately I like a lot of the CBS programming. It's a shame we can't enjoy the DD 5.1 here in Cleveland because our affiliate is too cheap to transmit the sound provided by the network.

Anyone know if Dish Network is close to adding HD locals to the Cleveland market?

I currently have HD OTA locals but would prefer to have a backup when the signal is interupted.

Direct TV just doesn't offer enough HD for me to stay. My patience through with them.

Looks like local football fans who can get WKBN-DT will have a good array of choices this weekend. At 1 pm, they will have their pick of Baltimore@N.O on WOIO-19, Jacksonville@ Philadelphia on WKBN-27 or Atlanta at Cincinnati on FOX-8. All these games will be in HD. At 4 pm, if you can't stomach the Browns-Jets game on Ch. 19, Ch. 27 will be carrying the Pittsburgh at Oakland contest. Unfortunately, neither of these late games will be in HD. Regardless, there will be 5 games to choose from. Not bad.

Looks like local football fans who can get WKBN-DT will have a good array of choices this weekend. At 1 pm, they will have their pick of Baltimore@N.O on WOIO-19, Jacksonville@ Philadelphia on WKBN-27 or Atlanta at Cincinnati on FOX-8. All these games will be in HD. At 4 pm, if you can't stomach the Browns-Jets game on Ch. 19, Ch. 27 will be carrying the Pittsburgh at Oakland contest. Unfortunately, neither of these late games will be in HD. Regardless, there will be 5 games to choose from. Not bad. Thanks. You beat me to posting the weekly update.
The Browns fans in Youngstown who can't get WOIO will not be too happy.

Nice link on the dolby shows, rlb. I do love the audio on Prison Break. Of all the shows I have heard Sopranos is superb. Las Vegas also has a very true dolby track with all the dialog in the center and only in the center channel. I did a little test with a recording of Numb3rs (CBS). It is a very well mixed show with lots of bass response and bass effects. When I disconnected the center channel there was a lot of dialog bleed into the L & R channels. This proves your point about the corruption of the original 5.1 sent as digital stereo then re-dolby effected through the at home amp. The digital signal gives a lot of nice dynamics but all the separation of the discrete channels is corrupted. I want to do some tests with Studio 60 where I find the mix very muddy. I'm surprised it is on the 5.1 list. I look forward to doing the same with Las Vegas when it airs later this week. So far I have not been able to pull in WKBN which is a crying shame.

Telosian, where do you live? Can you put up a rooftop antenna? WKBN-DT reaches all the way to Strongsville according to the FCC coverage map (see link in one of my previous posts above #6854). It even reaches into Lake Erie on the east side! It appears to cover all of the City of Cleveland proper, except that you would need a very high antenna unless you are already on high ground. Here in Parma the elevation average is 1100' above sea level, down in the city it's only around 550'. Don't even think about using an indoor antenna, this station is ~ 56 miles from here.

I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions

I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions
call a professional. Many people here have used Cleveland Antenna and have been very satisfied. 440-237-6888
Jim West

I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions

Have you ever tried it without the preamp?

I live in canton wkyc is unwatchable during the day, and woio breaks up as well.
I have a 40' tower, new antenna, and a cm7777 preamp. All uhf channels are good from Cleavland and Youngstown. Any suggestions

The obvious thing here is to make sure that you have a VHF/UHF antenna and that it is not UHF ONLY. That being said, WKYC-DT and WOIO-DT are definitely the digital problem children in this market. WKYC-DT suffers from being on low VHF where it is prone to electrical interference and interference from out-of-market analog signals from Pittsburgh and Detroit and WOIO-DT has the problem of fairly low power and interference from the analog London, Ontario station.

I have been having good luck with WKYC-DT lately - most of the time I am getting a good solid signal. Most of the summer was a different story, however. I would get WKYC-DT for a few days and then it would disappear for a few weeks.

It does seem that these two digitals require the antennna to be aimed more precisely, though. After verifying that you do have a VHF/UHF antenna, you may want to try tweaking its position a little bit.

Anybody else notice that the audio and video on WEAO-DT have been out-of-sync this week? Not sure when it started, but I first noticed it a couple of days ago. Its pretty noticeable. I'm not sure if Don Freeman from PBS45&49 still checks in here, but if he does, he might want to give his Engineering Department a heads up on this.

I'm in Gates Mills and am using a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I bypassed the preamp today to see if that made any difference and it did not. WKYC and the "parma" tower stations come in at 90+ on the Tivo antenna signal strength meter (pretty cool with audio feedback). I turn the antenna to I think where Youngstown should be but I can't get the signal meter to "stick." I get occaisional blips at about 21. The antenna is over 20 years old, but it is pulling in the other stations fine.

I'm in Gates Mills and am using a rooftop antenna with a rotor. I bypassed the preamp today to see if that made any difference and it did not. WKYC and the "parma" tower stations come in at 90+ on the Tivo antenna signal strength meter (pretty cool with audio feedback). I turn the antenna to I think where Youngstown should be but I can't get the signal meter to "stick." I get occaisional blips at about 21. The antenna is over 20 years old, but it is pulling in the other stations fine.
Youngstown would be ESE of Gates Mills, just a shade past due East. Unless you are in the Chagrin Valley you should be on fairly high ground. Do you know your elevation? (I found mine on Google Earth)

Are you tuned to the correct channel? WKBN-DT is on Rf ch 41. WFMJ is on Rf ch 20 and WYTV is on Rf 36 (this last one is the weakest). Have you tried "sweeping" for the signal to peak with your rotor?

Thanks for the help Michael P, I'll look again with your directions

I don't know what my elevation is but I am not in the valley. I tried again to get a signal from 41.1 and 41.2 and still no luck. Perhaps I am doing something incorrectly but the rotor is doing a great job and I can fine tune the other channels coming from the west. I wonder if anyone else in the Gates Mills vicinity is able to pull in WKBN-DT?

I don't know what my elevation is but I am not in the valley. I tried again to get a signal from 41.1 and 41.2 and still no luck. Perhaps I am doing something incorrectly but the rotor is doing a great job and I can fine tune the other channels coming from the west. I wonder if anyone else in the Gates Mills vicinity is able to pull in WKBN-DT?
I believe that from Gates Mills to Youngstown you have the ridge in Newbury in the way. That's probably keeping you from getting the signal.

I believe that from Gates Mills to Youngstown you have the ridge in Newbury in the way. That's probably keeping you from getting the signal.
I had a similar problem when I lived in Seven Hills with the Akron stations. Richfield was in the way (200' higher than I was). I has some success by moving my antenna laterally. I was able to find a small "window" in the obstruction by moving my antenna a few feet east of where it was mounted. This is easier to do with an analog station. WFMJ 21 seems to be the strongest of the Youngstown analogs. If you can get a half-decent picture on 21 (some snow but no ghosts) that would be the spot to start trying for the digitals.

Good luck!

Contrary to some recent posts, the Browns game on WOIO extended past 7:00 and therefore all primetime shows were delayed. However, the shows were broadcast in HD (same as if the Browns game had not run beyond it's scheduled timeframe).

Guess this means that WOIO has merely forgotten to "flip the switch" on prior Sundays; or they just purchased equipment capable of providing the "delay" of network programming.

Thanks for the suggestions. I bet you are correct about Newbury being in the way. I'll try for 21 and go from there. By the way Vegas in 5.1 through the THX circutry of the Tivo S3 sounded incredible! Only makes the digital heart beat stronger for 5.1 on CBS.

Contrary to some recent posts, the Browns game on WOIO extended past 7:00 and therefore all primetime shows were delayed. However, the shows were broadcast in HD (same as if the Browns game had not run beyond it's scheduled timeframe).

Guess this means that WOIO has merely forgotten to "flip the switch" on prior Sundays; or they just purchased equipment capable of providing the "delay" of network programming.In previous weeks WOIO was running CBS Sunday prime-time programs delayed while WKBN ran CBS on time (WKBN even had the CBS Evening News while WOIO did not have any news). WKBN was in HD WOIO was in SD. This happened several times, usually when CBS has the "singleheader" and WOIO has the late game and WKBN has the early game. Early game = no delay of prime time.

So what you are saying is WOIO was in HD last week? Of course it would since CBS had the doubleheader - every CBS affilliate had a late game, and therefore delayed by the same rate (that is why you sometimes see "bonus coverage" of other games until the last game ends). So the one HD "pipeline" that CBS has for primetime shows was available to all.

The delay is done @ CBS not at WOIO. Even though CBS can generate 2 HD feeds simultaneously, they are live game feeds. Delaying the entire prime time schedule in HD is a bit trickier. They should be able to handle this some day, just not yet.

So is tonight's Cav's game being broadcast on ESPN HD in the Cleveland market? Or is it blacked out since it is also being broadcast locally on WUAB 43 and FSN Ohio?

I'm not sure, but here's to hoping we don't have to watch Cavs in crap-o-vision, especially after I got to experience the great looking HD on TNT last night.
I know that the HD bonus channel on Time Warner shows the next scheduled game on the 7th, so it will not be in HD on the Bonus channel.

Cross your fingers for cavs not blocked out on ESPN!

From the page linked below:

"There will be no local blackouts for ESPN game coverage. The agreement includes extensions of pre-existing deals between ESPN and the NBA covering ESPN Radio, ESPN Classic, ESPN.com, and the NBDL."

The link:
http://www.nba.com/news/tv_contract_020122.html

It was a six-year deal, so still should be in effect.

Thanks for the post on the agreement with ESPN;
Anyone have any info regarding Cavs games that are going to be broadcast on TNT?

There's a TNT section in that same agreement linked in my message. That would be a good place to start...

EDIT:
The agreement doesn't mention blackouts for TNT, but TNT has exclusivity (sort of like ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball) for at least some of their games, so I assume those games would not also be on local tv.

I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.

Does anyone use WOW? If so, what model HD DVR do they use? Are you happy with it and do you know if it has SATA enabled?

I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.

Does anyone use WOW? If so, what model HD DVR do they use? Are you happy with it and do you know if it has SATA enabled?

I have WOW at home and D* at the office. I can tell you the HD PQ on WOW blows away D*. I don't know how people can stand to watch live sporting events on D* with all the compression/macroblocking/artifacting. The only reason I have D* is because there's no cable available at my office location.

On WOW I have the SA8300HD DVR running SARA. I made a homebrew SATA drive and plugged it in and got nothing. It might work with the "official" Maxtor SATA drive, but I dunno. Firewire is not enabled. FWIW, when the tech installed the SA8300HD a couple months ago, he had never heard of anyone using an external drive with it. WOW seems to be very conservative about pushing SARA software updates. I think we're running a year old version of SARA, whereas I have seen other cable systems pushing out newer firewire and SATA enabled versions.

WOW is not carrying the local channels QAM in-the-clear, however it appears that TWC is. A little birdie tells me you can negotiate with the WOW reps to get an extra free HD receiver or equivalent discounts if you complain about this. The competition with TWC in the Cleveland market is a good thing. When ATT starts UVerse service later in the year, competition should get even better.

WOW customer service has always been excellent.

My only beef is they don't do QAM in the clear HD locals and they don't have ESPN2HD or the INHD's. No WVIZ HD yet. They don't have SHOHD either if that's important to you. You do get STARZHD with the HD package however.

Edit: I should also add I don't do a whole lot of DVR'ing, maybe one HD show a week of a special concert or football game or something. Haven't had any problems with the SA8300HD locking up or rebooting. I can live with the user interface. The TIVO fans hate the SARA user interface however...

I'm going through one of my phases where I am unhappy with D*.


Rlb, I too am fed up with D* and I am switching to E* for the following reasons:

1) D*’s DVR’s are lousy. My current R15 didn’t record half the shows I set it to.
2) It freezes up frequently and I have to reboot it constantly.
3) Super slow browser/interface. Very annoying!
4) I recently bought a HD TV and want to upgrade to an HD DVR. D*s HR20’s have received abysmal reviews and am no way going to chance using their beta equipment.
5) E*s DVR (VIP622) has received much better reviews and other owners who have had both vouch for the VIP622 over the HR20.
6) E* has WAY more HD channels. 27 not counting locals!
7) I have heard E*s PQ is better than D*s.
8) Sick of waiting for more HD and broken promises from Rupert.
9) An HD package from E* is cheaper than a similar one from cable.
10) I didn't have to sign a lifetime contract and pay $500 for a HD DVR like I would have with D*. Try $200 with a $20 credit for the next 10 months, which makes it FREE and no commitment contract!

Installation for my new VIP622 is this Sunday. Can’t wait!

Good TV, better TV? I think not! Good riddance Rupert, Hello Charlie!

Don't get too excited about that DVR. TiVo won a law suit for stealing their patent. They may get yanked.

Paule123, thanks for the excellent input. I've been using the HD Tivo since they came out and have been very happy with it. Since I get most of my HD via OTA antenna, I've been satisfied with the quality. However, If they don't get the HR 20-250 working properly, and don't move away from their HD Lite (I do watch some HD on the premium channels) in the next year; I'll definitely look for the best alternative. Only thing stopping me from changing right now is the HD Tivo is probably still the best thing available. I won't buy an S3 until they have two way communications with the cable cards; and the SA 8300 HD and E*'s DVR get "beat up" consistently on the Forums.

I won't buy an S3 until they have two way communications with the cable cards; and the SA 8300 HD and E*'s DVR get "beat up" consistently on the Forums.

The S3 is the best thing going. But if your waiting for it to have a two way cable card, you won't be getting an S3. It is not designed for a two way cable card. Therefore it will always be a one way cable card.

The only reason you need the two way card is if you use On Demand or pay per view. If those are big in your viewing needs then it will have to be something else.

The HR10 with TiVo is more solid a machine than anything E* has ever put out. I love mine.
Rlb, I too am fed up with D* and I am switching to E* for the following reasons:

1) D*’s DVR’s are lousy. My current R15 didn’t record half the shows I set it to.
2) It freezes up frequently and I have to reboot it constantly.
3) Super slow browser/interface. Very annoying!
4) I recently bought a HD TV and want to upgrade to an HD DVR. D*s HR20’s have received abysmal reviews and am no way going to chance using their beta equipment.
5) E*s DVR (VIP622) has received much better reviews and other owners who have had both vouch for the VIP622 over the HR20.
6) E* has WAY more HD channels. 27 not counting locals!
7) I have heard E*s PQ is better than D*s.
8) Sick of waiting for more HD and broken promises from Rupert.
9) An HD package from E* is cheaper than a similar one from cable.
10) I didn't have to sign a lifetime contract and pay $500 for a HD DVR like I would have with D*. Try $200 with a $20 credit for the next 10 months, which makes it FREE and no commitment contract!

Installation for my new VIP622 is this Sunday. Can’t wait!

Good TV, better TV? I think not! Good riddance Rupert, Hello Charlie!

The S3 is the best thing going. But if your waiting for it to have a two way cable card, you won't be getting an S3. It is not designed for a two way cable card. Therefore it will always be a one way cable card.

The only reason you need the two way card is if you use On Demand or pay per view. If those are big in your viewing needs then it will have to be something else.

I should have said the replacement for the S3.

For some reason, I also thought that the lack of 2 way communications also decreased the effectiveness of the Guide. However, I just did a quick scan on DBS Talk and can't substantiate that issue.

We don't use pay per view. However, "on demand" appears to be a growing capability and maybe it may be significant in the next year or two.

Bottom line: Thanks for the input. The S3 is on my "radar screen" again if I finally run out of patience with D*. I have a choice available in N. Royalton. I could go with either TWC (currently use them for internet) or WOW.

Oops. An edit. Now I remember why I wanted two way communications. The cable companies are moving toward a technology that only transmits certain stations to all homes (I forget the name but it is discussed extensively on the forums). The rest are held until requested by someone. This frees up bandwidth. This requires that the set top box (read S3 or it's replacement) be capable of communicating back "up stream" (i.e., two way communications). The S3 doesn't work on systems that have already implemented the technology and will cease to function properly if your cable company implements in the future.

Hello,

I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?

I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it

Thanks.

Hello,

I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?

I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it

Thanks.

A while back when they were still Adelphia they updated to 1.88.XX.X. This had a few additonal features like a faster fast foward (4 speed) and a couple of other things that I don't recall. Unfortunately there was an encodeing problem which was really Fox's fault but they panicked and kicked back to your current version. They haven't changed since.

This is my opinion but unless they unify their system and go with either passport or SARA software you probably won't see any changes. Another problem is their guide data does not show if a programs is new or repeat. So your really stuck with a DVR that doesn't stand much chance in the near future of upgrade.

There is something you can do to get a better DVR, and that's the TiVo S3 but you will not have pay per view or on demand if you go that way.

If you call them up I'm sure they will tell you that an upgrade is planned either a. in the near future or b. at the start of the next month. Trust me, if you really want to know what's going on come here, we know more then any of their CSR's plus we got at least one person who feeds us a little inside info, like we know that WNEO HD and Universal HD are coming but we don't know when. Most of the CSR's can't even answer simple questions, like how come WNEO is on the list of HD channels available but we haven't got it yet.

Most of the CSR's can't even answer simple questions, like how come WNEO is on the list of HD channels available but we haven't got it yet.

Tell the CSRs to spread the word that WNEO/WEAO is not on in HD because it hasn't put up HD programming again, yet.

:D

What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?

What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?

Yes it does. You were not getting the middle track. I've seen this happen from time to time on other 5.1 stations. This isn't your fault.

If this happens again you can always turn on closed captioning. Not as nice but at least you can watch.

What's with WKBN-HD's sound on its OTA signal ? I tried to watch CSI: Miami on Saturday night and all I got was the background sound effects and music. No dialogue from the characters. CSI on Thursday night had the same problem until the first commercial break and the Bengals game on Sunday had stadium sounds but no announcers for part of the first quarter as well. Does this have anything to do with broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 ?

The chief engineer at WKBN posted an acknowledgement of the problem in the Youngstown thread.

Thanks for the help Michael P, I'll look again with your directions

Do you get anything from the analog Y-town stations?

Do you get anything from the analog Y-town stations?
I get the analog WFMJ-TV 21 fairly well. I don't bother with WKBN-TV because I get the digital signal virtually 24/7 (I have experienced "micro- dropouts" from time to time where the audio cuts off for a second or less). The last windsorrm moved the mast of my Youngstown antenna slightly downward. I have to get up on the roof to fix it. Even with the antenna mis-aimed I still get a viewable picture on both analog 21 and digital 27.

By the way CC, whee you asking me or Telosian?

I'm on fairly high ground, so others wh may be closer to Youngstown may not be as lucky as I am in getting the Youngstown stations. WKBN-DT happens to have a large coverage area - I'm "inside the circle" on the FCC map. I'm outside the circle for all the Youngstown analogs as well as the rest of their digitals.

One neat thing about geting WKBN-DT 57 miles from the transmitter is their subchannel WYFX. That station is actually 2 LPTV stations in the analog world. They barely cover the City Of Youngsown and the City of Mercer, PA.

Hello,

I am an old Adelphia, now TWC customer in Columbia Station (next to Strongsville). My SA8300HD DVR is running SARA 1.87.23.1. I believe I have seen that there are new versions out there. Is TWC going to update? Can I call them and ask for an update?

I'm close to getting a Mits 57831, or a Sony KDS55A2000, and I want to make sure I have the latest and greatest feeding it

Thanks.

Firmware is produced by the STB manufacturers (S/A, Motorola) and is then turned over to the cable operators. The cable operators generally test in-house prior to release, and then they push the firmware out to everyone once it's been deemed as stable. This is typically done as a global background process and everyone gets it auto-magically. It's counterproductive to pester an operator for a "newer" release; the newest stable release is always delivered when it's ready.

Don't forget to vote today. All those guys with R's next to their name hate Dolby 5.1 and want to legislate color back out of tv. :D

Don't forget to vote today. All those guys with R's next to their name hate Dolby 5.1 and want to legislate color back out of tv. :D

And all the guys with D's want to tax it. :D :D

And all the guys with D's want to tax it. :D :D

The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?

Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.

The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?

Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.

Actually it was a joke, not an argument. :D

I'm just a little loopy form everything going on here. :o

Both of you guys, knock off the political conversation. It's simply not allowed here and since we know no one comes into this thread to monitor it it simply shouldn't occurre no matter how correct kinglerch is. :D :D

Them R boys are going down tonight. :D :D

Both of you guys, knock off the political conversation. It's simply not allowed here and since we know no one comes into this thread to monitor it it simply shouldn't occurre no matter how correct kinglerch is. :D :D

Them R boys are going down tonight. :D :D


Awww geee :(

And all the guys with D's want to tax it. :D :D
Of course... we all know Gore invented Dolby Digital... and the environment. :D

Did ABC have issues a couple days ago. I couldn't get it down in Akron. Usually one of my best receptions.

Did ABC have issues a couple days ago. I couldn't get it down in Akron. Usually one of my best receptions.
Could you be more specific as to the time of day? I live right by the transmitter and have not noticed anything wrong. Last year WEWS had some problems with thier digital signal that even I could see.

The only digital OTA that I noticed was off the air recently was WOAC (I know no great loss). The station has been sold so I monitor it from time to time to see if the programming has changed. BTW: the price tags on those coins are :eek: $6,999.00 marked down to $4,999.00 for 3 $50 gold pieces.

Could you be more specific as to the time of day? I live right by the transmitter and have not noticed anything wrong. Last year WEWS had some problems with thier digital signal that even I could see.

The only digital OTA that I noticed was off the air recently was WOAC (I know no great loss). The station has been sold so I monitor it from time to time to see if the programming has changed. BTW: the price tags on those coins are :eek: $6,999.00 marked down to $4,999.00 for 3 $50 gold pieces.

From my understanding, WOAC won't be changing their programming for at least a while (like months to over a year). I remember reading this somewhere, but I forget where.

everyone probably knows....

but if you haven't checked out the NBA on TNT yet the Cavs are playing tonight

The picture from TNT looks GREAT for basketball!

(Time Warner SA8300 on Samsung HLS-6187)

Anyone with D* still notice the "8mm filmed look" to WOIO on the MPEG-4 feed. Noticed the same problem with WKYC has been fixed which is good but still seeing this on CBS 19 makes me glad D* doesnt black out the HD feeds on Super Fan. Anyone know how to contact the engineer at 19? Thanks.

The argument that taxes are bad rarely comes with another solution to pay for it. Was that confucius?

Anyway, back to our regular topic. Anyone noticed a new weather channel (like we need another one) is popping up on 33.3? It's still blank but has a strong signal and "weather" as the title.

How about get the government out of the "spend money on everything" business so we don't have to "pay" for it?

I'm not receiving WOIO 19, am I the only one? I wanted to watch CSI, but not signal.

Thanks.
George

I'm getting 19-1 and 19-2 full strength OTA.

everyone probably knows....

but if you haven't checked out the NBA on TNT yet the Cavs are playing tonight

The picture from TNT looks GREAT for basketball!

(Time Warner SA8300 on Samsung HLS-6187)

I am seeing a lot of macroblocking on the closeup shots when the players move down the court quickly. Watching on WOW cable on 42" HD plasma and SA8300HD.

Curious if anyone else is seeing this. Please say size and type of display. Thanks.

I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...

Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).

Any help would be appreciated.

THanks!

I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...

Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).

Any help would be appreciated.

THanks!

Chad B. at the following site calibrated my Sony 60" SXRD last January:
http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/

Chad is based in Dayton; but travels frequently to the Cleveland area. He is a contributor on the AVS forums and did an excellent job with the SXRD. I imagine that he also does lots of Samsungs.

I wouldn't think that your picture should darken significantly at 45 degrees; but DLP users would be more familiar with the characteristics. My old Mits CRT HD RPTV did darken at that angle; but the SXRD is good until about 60 degrees. Your owners manual probably shows a diagram for optimal picture.

I tried searching this thread, but I'm sure I probably missed it among the 230 pages...

Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. Also, from a 45 degree angle (i.e. to the left / right of the tv) the picture is really dark, but I don't think it should be that way (at least not THAT dark).

Any help would be appreciated.

THanks!

The ISF website http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm lists several certified techs in the Cleveland area. Take your pick. I would call them and make sure they have experience with your particular display unit.

Does anyone perform calibration services in Cleveland? I just purchased a Samsung HLS5688W and I need to calibrate it. I have my Samsungs calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio/Video Consultants (http://www.lionav.com/mgreggloewen.php). He is a nationally know calibrator who really knows what he's doing. Do a google search for his name and, among other things, you'll find:

Recommendations (http://www.satelliteguys.us/archive/index.php/t-26770.html)

That he teaches courses in ISF calibration (http://www.videoessentials.com/aboutus_News.php?id=27)

That he also is a moderator in the Home Theater Forum's "Display Devices (TVs/Projectors)" section, and posts regularly here at AVS as well as many other forums.

He is due here in Cleveland sometime this month to calibrate my 5687. If intrerested, you might use the form at the bottom of Lion A/V's web page to ask if you could be included in his tour.

EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is NOT a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.

EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is NOT a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.

Was this local calibrator you used ISF trained?

EDIT: Be cautious about using a local calibrator (ChadB is NOT a local calibrator [unless you live in Dayton, in which case you may completely disregard this warning]. He comes highly recommended here on the forum). I had a local guy do a Samsung of mine, and he didn't really know what he was doing. I've also been warned against another local calibrator for the same reason.

I also didn't feel "warm and fuzzy" about any of the locals. That's the reason I used Chad B. However, I concur that Loewen has a very strong reputation.

I'm definitely a believer in ISF calibrations. I've had the service done on two sets. First, the Mits CRT RPTV and the difference was "night and day". The SXRD was much better out of the box; but the calibration was definitely worth the money to me. No one could fail to see the improvement in the picture. By the way, my wife has almost always complained about my audio/video expenditures. However, even she is a strong supporter of ISF's.

Was this local calibrator you used ISF trained? Yes, and listed on the ISF web site. Same with the other local calibrator I mentioned. Please do not interpret my warning as an indictment of all local ISF calibrators. I'd be very surprised to find there aren't some fully competent ones available. The trick is knowing which are the competent ones. I opted to go with a nationally known and trusted calibrator just to be certain.

Thanks a lot guys. I will try your suggestions, keeping in mind your caveats. I am pretty new to all this technology and don't quite understand it so hopefully I don't get taken for a ride :D

To give you some info:

I also have the Samsung 960 DVD player. I chose this player b/c I wanted the 1080p upconverting and it only cost me $100. I figured this was a good option until the Blu-Ray DVD players come down a bit in price.

I have SD DirecTV (via S-Video :( ), the 960 Samsung via HDMI, and an HDTV antenna for Broadcast HDTV channels.

For those familiar with Cleveland, I live in the Warehouse District.

Which leads me to a couple other questions:

1. I am having problems getting all 4 broadcast HDTV channels. I get Fox fine, but NBC, ABC and CBS are spotty. I am using a non-Terk HD Antenna, I forget the brand (I'm not a home right now) but it has two diamond shaped "ears" that attach to the stem and are parallel to the plane of the ground (so it kinda looks like a figure 8 from a bird's eye view). Anyone in downtown Cleveland (or with experience with HD Antenna's) have any suggestions?

2. Do I have to mess with my DVD player as well to calibrate it to the TV? Will one of the calibrators do this as well? Some of the DVDs don't look as stellar as the ones I saw in Magnolia that were running on the same TV with the same DVD player.

3. I still have the option to buy the extended 4 year warranty on my TV... what are peoples' views on this? I feel like it's a good investment of $300-400, but am not sure.

Thanks again!!!

I'm thinking about pushing a relative of mine towards either of the two guys mentioned up here, Chad or Gregg. It sounds like Chad gets up here fairly often, and I don't know when Gregg will be here this month - if that'd work for my family member.

The set's a Samsung 67" DLP...

2. Do I have to mess with my DVD player as well to calibrate it to the TV? Will one of the calibrators do this as well? Some of the DVDs don't look as stellar as the ones I saw in Magnolia that were running on the same TV with the same DVD player.

Part of Chad B.'s ISF on my SXRD was that he "tweaked" every input that I use (he even tweaked a component input, that I don't use, just in case I want to use it in the future). I use a Denon 2910 upconverting DVD player via HDMI. Chad even tested each of the possible resolutions and we decided that 1080i provided the best picture (e.g., on the SXRD, the HDMI input with 480p was "over filtered"). Owner settings (contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, gamma, etc.) were different between the Denon and my HD Tivo.

Proper grayscale is the ISF benefit that we can't achieve without expensive equipment. If you are very "proficient" with DVE/Avia, you can get pretty close on tweaking individual components; however, Chad B. also used his equipment for that function and definitely improved over what I had achieved using both Avia and DVE.

Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.

Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.

I normally receive 43-1 from an OTA antenna. I'm not currently getting any signal.

So I do have a Terk antenna, just not the one that looks like a futuristic gun that people complain about...

I live downtown in the Warehouse District... I only get ABC, FOX and Telemundo / Univision in HD. Anyone know why NBC and CBS don't come in???

Is anyone else having problems receiving WUAB-DT? I am not receiving any signal at all where usually I receive it 24/7.

Same thing here. No signal on 43-1 whatsoever. I'm sure they'll fix it. The Tube (43-2) is down too.

Hookbill, is your Tivo 3 receiving digital 43 via cable? Maybe it's just ota that's down?

thx, Tom

So I do have a Terk antenna, just not the one that looks like a futuristic gun that people complain about...

I live downtown in the Warehouse District... I only get ABC, FOX and Telemundo / Univision in HD. Anyone know why NBC and CBS don't come in???

I don't know what specific antenna you have, but it sure sounds like your antenna is UHF only. Both NBC and CBS broadcast on VHF frequencies (analog channels 2 and 10, respectively). The fact that you're getting everything else is pretty telling.

If at all possible, I'd try another antenna that pulls in both UHF and VHF.

WUAB is down on my DVR from time warner and also the QAM tuner on my sony

Cox Cable has a message on the WUAB HD channel, that WUAB is having transmitter problems.

Sometime in the past week or two Wide Open West added FSNHD on channel 220 to the lineup. I was all excited to see the Cavs game in HD tonight since it's on FSNOH, but it's not on FSNHD. FSNHD is just showing the rotating promo banner. WTF?

Here's the HD schedule for the next couple of weeks - not a lot:
http://msn.foxsports.com/name/HD#FSOhio

Complete Cavs schedule. Asterisk indicates game in HD.
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5894594

43-1 is not working..

3-1 works but goes black and gives a 'weak signal' message every 5 seconds ... hopefully this will be fixed by 8pm Sunday.


Anyways, this sux :(


Time Warner Lorain Branch customer FYI

Maybe with this outage 43.2 will fix the low sound volume on the Tube. It's about 15 db lower than anybody else. 43.1 is fine on the sound level and so is 43 analog.
JJK

Watching WKYC HD via TW this morning HD news, looks fine.

Old Adelphia/new TWC person...what's with all the 800 and 900 empty channels in my guide? I know the 800 channels are the digital local channels. I wish I could get the empty channels out of the guide. What are the 900 channels going to be?

Thanks.

Old Adelphia/new TWC person...what's with all the 800 and 900 empty channels in my guide? I know the 800 channels are the digital local channels. I wish I could get the empty channels out of the guide. What are the 900 channels going to be?Thanks.


Ok, heres a surprise. Those 800 locals you see? They are not digital. They are analog. What happens is that if you have a digital receiver you receive the digital channels which are i.e. 4 WOIO, 5, WEWS, 8 WJW.

Now if you hook up to a wall without a converter then you see those 800 channels even though they are in the same spots. How do I know this? Two ways: One, if you have your receiver that can receive dolby you can see dolby 2.0 out of those channels. On the 800's it's PCM 48. The other way is if you have a tv hooked up to the wall and one to a digital receiver and you tune your digital receiver to the 800's you will see they are synched exactly. No delay.

Now it's long been believed that the 800's were being used as test stations for all the other analog stations that TW offers. At one time even though you couldn't see anything with them they had stations like ESPN, A&E, etc on them.

I have no idea whats on the 900's I never saw them and since I have an S3 now I don't see them at all.

I assume the eventual plan is to do the digital substitution on all of the sub-100 channels. At some point, that'll allow TWC to cut loose the analog channels entirely, which will free up a whole boatload of bandwidth.

(That second part is mostly speculation on my part.)

I don't know what specific antenna you have, but it sure sounds like your antenna is UHF only. Both NBC and CBS broadcast on VHF frequencies (analog channels 2 and 10, respectively). The fact that you're getting everything else is pretty telling.

If at all possible, I'd try another antenna that pulls in both UHF and VHF.

Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.

Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?

Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.

Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?

How's your signal strength on the channels you do get? It's possible that if they're fairly marginal, CBS and NBC don't lock on as they broadcast at a lower power than the others due to the nature of being on a lower frequency.

For what it's worth, I'm in Medina which would put us at (very) roughly the same distance apart from the Parma antenna farm. I tried three or four small antennas, and none of them would pull in NBC or CBS reliably. I ended up having to go to a 120" radio shack antenna to get them all. And even then those two were prone to dropouts. Actually, CBS never quite locked on all the time, but I think that was more of a ghosting problem than anything.

Anyway, I wish I could help you more. Hopefully someone closer to you can provide some suggestions.

Seems like WKYC has tweaked their encoder to reduce the macroblocking on the Sunday night football game. I hardly noticed it tonight.

I haven't noticed the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of every scene change either.

JJK

I haven't noticed the 1/8th second out of focus at the beginning of every scene change either.

JJK

Earlier in the season there was a Harris Flexicoder setting that WKYC and many other affiliates changed that fixed the "fuzz outs" you're talking about. Now I only see them immediately after SNF returns from a commercial break.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/lakewrestler135/carmenohio.jpg

O-H

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/Rijax/bow.gifhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/Rijax/ohiost-white-sm.gif

O-H


I-O!!

Actually, the antenna I had is UHF and VHF. But the VHF (NBC and CBS) did not come in unfortunately. Sp I returned it and I got the Terk antenna that everyone complains about (the one that looks like a space-age laser gun). I STILL can't get NBC or CBS in HD.

Anyone else live in the Warehouse district having this problem?There is an innherent problem with indoor antennas - no matter how good they are they cant make a bad signal into a good one. You need to place the antenna by a window facing the transmitters. I live right by the transmitters and I get garbage on WKYC and WOIO unless the antenna is by the window. The building materials (aluminum siding, insulation, steel etc. screw up the signal indoors. Glass is your only friend. So if you have a south-facing window try placing the antenna there.

Also try putting it out on the balcony (if you have one). If there's a metal screen in the window, that will screw things up as well.

Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?

Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?

I'm really glad it's not just me with 19 too. It usually comes thru with no problem after about 8pm when the signal suddenly becomes more steady. But the last few days, all I've seen are pixelations. *sad face*

"How I met your Mother" & "Two and a half Men" were unwatchable. Hopefully it's something they can fix.

I've had no problems with 19-1; however I'm only about six miles south of the antenna farm and I have a roof top antenna.

Man, how did I suddenly lose 19? I've always had a pretty strong signal and now nothing. I wan't gettting 43 either, but I see that there was a normal problem. Do these two stations broadcast from the same tower?No, WOIO is in the West Creek Preserve (formerly the Parma City Dump) on Ridgewood (behind WKYC and next door to WBNX). WUAB is on State Rd, behind Padua Franciscan High School (just a few blocks north of WEWS).

BTW: having WOIO and WKYC next to each other makes for a convenient situation for those with seperate VHF and UHF antennas. The 2 VHF's are so close to each other, too bad the UHF's are spread out.

To my surprise, 19-1 (CBS) was coming in this morning with about 45-50% signal strength on my HDTiVo. I haven't seen that station come in in a long time. I managed to lock it in for the Masters but have since relocated my antennas. I'm using a SquareShooter aimed to the southwest amplified through a Terk DirecTV multiswitch and then combined at the receiver end with a simple pair of rabbit ears to pick up 3-1 (NBC). I need to mess with the SquareShooter to get 5-1 for the game this weekend. I live near the west side market and this OTA stuff is a pain. Thankfully, most of the shows I record are on NBC and that comes in pretty well with my setup.

Here is an email and response I recently received from E* regarding their intent to add LiLs and local sports programming to Cleveland's HD lineup.............

Greetings,

Recently I transferred my DBS service to Dish Network. I was a former Direct TV subscriber and chose to switch for a variety of reasons. One of the major reasons was your quantity/selection of high definition channels. However, I have a few questions regarding that subject…….

I reside in the Cleveland, Ohio market and am wondering when Dish plans on adding Cleveland RSN's and local Sports programming to it's HD package? Also I am wondering when we will be able to access the local Cleveland channels (nbc, abc, fox, cbs, upn, etc) through the supplied satellite and receiver? According to my research, Cleveland is the 16th largest market and we would love to hear of progress regarding this matter.

Regards,

hd mm



I am glad to see another new subscriber and want to follow up on your questions if I may. The addition of HD locals/RSN's via Cleveland , OH will begin sometime in 1st quarter of next year. (2007) The only upcoming cities that are re-forming to HD at this time are Indianapolis IN., Raleigh NC., and Pittsburg PA. We'll have more of a direct timeframe by next quarter. Thanks for your inquiry and business sir!

Although that response looked good I think it was canned. You asked about Cleveland, why in the heck would he bother with those other cities?

Although that response looked good I think it was canned. You asked about Cleveland, why in the heck would he bother with those other cities?

No clue. Probably to make it look like they were committed to and currently working on adding LiLs to other cities and that would mean we are next. Who cares about Pittsburgh! Why do they get LiLs before Cleveland? Besides, not only is Cleveland the 16th largest DMA, they are the largest without HD LiLs. Get with it E*!

To my surprise, 19-1 (CBS) was coming in this morning with about 45-50% signal strength on my HDTiVo. I haven't seen that station come in in a long time. I managed to lock it in for the Masters but have since relocated my antennas. I'm using a SquareShooter aimed to the southwest amplified through a Terk DirecTV multiswitch and then combined at the receiver end with a simple pair of rabbit ears to pick up 3-1 (NBC). I need to mess with the SquareShooter to get 5-1 for the game this weekend. I live near the west side market and this OTA stuff is a pain. Thankfully, most of the shows I record are on NBC and that comes in pretty well with my setup.

Thx everyone for feedback on 19-1 ota. The change in strength might've been atmospheric. Seems better now, NCIS in HD showed up very nicely...

I need your help on this latest poll fellow Ohioans.......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751228

Anybody able and willing to help this guy out?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=751361

I'd be happy to do it but I'm the sole caregiver for my 94 year old Mother who has dementia, which gives new meaning to the old song "Don't get around much anymore."

There will be only one "extra" game available this weekend for anybody who can get both the Cleveland and Youngstown stations. The 1 PM FOX game between ATL and BAL will be carried on the WYFX subchannel of WKBN-DT (27.2). I have a feeling not many of us will choose that game over the one on CBS...

Thank God I found this. I been going crazy trying to get 19-1 and 3-1. I have never gotten 19-1 which is irritating bc of the browns. I have read little about fine tuning a signal and even brought a compass but at this point I just find this painful. I have just fine tuned my A/V set-up for weeks and now I have to deal with this. My antennea picks up UHF and VHF and I live in an apartment in Strongsville. Anyone have any suggestions?

Receive WOIO-DT on amplified rabbit ears in North Canton.
But only if I insert an FM trap before the preamp.
FM broadcast crud.

Ed...

Receive WOIO-DT on amplified rabbit ears in North Canton.
But only if I insert an FM trap before the preamp.
FM broadcast crud.

Ed...

I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?

Thanks!

Thank God I found this. I been going crazy trying to get 19-1 and 3-1. I have never gotten 19-1 which is irritating bc of the browns. I have read little about fine tuning a signal and even brought a compass but at this point I just find this painful. I have just fine tuned my A/V set-up for weeks and now I have to deal with this. My antennea picks up UHF and VHF and I live in an apartment in Strongsville. Anyone have any suggestions?

If you have a window that faces Parma, one of these should be all you need since you're only about 7-10 miles from the towers.

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-PHDTV1-Digital-HDTV-UHF-Antenna/dp/B0007XDI54/sr=8-4/qid=1164042018/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-2702862-3467955?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Most of the time, if you find the right position, you can get 3,5,8,19,43,61 without moving the antenna.

I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?

Thanks!

An FM trap is simply a filter that removes the FM radio broadcast frequencies from the mix. All of the FM frequencies fall between analog TV channels 6 and 7, by the way, so the thinking is that since an amplifier will make all of the frequencies stronger, the fewer that are actually in the mix the better and cleaner the overall signal will be.

You can usually find this kind of thing at Radio Shack. Be careful, though, as some of these will filter out the FM frequencies and others will filter out everything BUT the FM frequencies. Make sure you get the right filter.

Here's an an example of one from Amazon. (http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-FM-FILTER/dp/B0002ZPIUK/sr=1-11/qid=1164046108/ref=sr_1_11/002-1492682-0616003?ie=UTF8&s=electronics)

Truthfully, though, I've historically found very little benefit in using an FM trap except when I was once having a hard time pulling in a distant broadcast frequency on Channel 7. And don't forget that you still need an amplifier. An FM trap on an unamplified signal will have very, very little benefit if any. If you're just using an indoor antenna an FM trap may not be applicable to your situation.

** Disclosure: The above is based on 20+ year-old experience. Things may have changed since then. If that's the case, I'm sure somebody else will correct me. :p

I live in Twinsburg and could really use some help getting WOIO-DT on my indoor antenna. Where can I get an FM trap (I have never heard of these before)?

Thanks!

I doubt that you will ever get WOIO-DT with an indoor antenna. If you live in a single family home, your options appear to be getting cable or D* with local HD stations; or putting up an outdoor antenna.

I live around 6 miles south of the antenna farms in Parma; but had an outdoor antenna mounted on the roof when I got my first HD TV around 5 years ago. My house faces south; so I was able to have the antenna installed on rear roof of the home. You can't even see it when driving down the street (i.e., it's below the roof line). You may be too far away; but some people have luck installing them in the rafters of the garage or the home itself if you have the headroom.

Thanks for the tips guys. I live in an apartment so an indoor antenna is my only option. I might just have to check out the FM trap route for kicks...at worst I am back where I started.

The FM trap only works if your antenna is amplified! If you must use an indoor antenna be sure you aim it out a window that faces the transmitters, otherwise the best antenna and amplifier in the world will not help you.

You need a clean signal - an amplifier just makes the noise louder. Building materials such as aluminum siding, steel beams, just about everything but glass screws up the signal. If you are within a 15 mile radius I would not recommend an amplifier, it will overload - not just on the FM signals but all the TV signals as well. Keep in mind that the analog signals also add to the noise.

I have decided that I want to get a rotor for my antenna. I would like to fine-tune the specific channels that I want to receive, and (to justify my purchase) so my wife can watch the CW in HD from Youngstown. :rolleyes:

Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent, heavy-duty rotor that holds up well? I've looked at Channel Master, Magnavox, Zenith, etc., but I can't seem to find many reviews, recommendations...

Thanks for your help, and it's too bad that TV-55 will NEVER broadcast OTA, right guys? :D

I have decided that I want to get a rotor for my antenna. I would like to fine-tune the specific channels that I want to receive, and (to justify my purchase) so my wife can watch the CW in HD from Youngstown. :rolleyes:

Does anyone have a suggestion on a decent, heavy-duty rotor that holds up well? I've looked at Channel Master, Magnavox, Zenith, etc., but I can't seem to find many reviews, recommendations...

Thanks for your help, and it's too bad that TV-55 will NEVER broadcast OTA, right guys? :D
I hate to break this to you but the CW is not in "HD" in Youngstown. Digital, yes, but it's an SD subchannel of WFMJ-DT (Rf 20). This is also true of the FOX affilliate WYFX which is an SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (Rf 41) and My-TV (or My "YTV" as they like to call it) which is an SD subchannel of WYTV-DT (Rf 36).

In one respest WBCB (The Youngstown CW) is better than WBNX if only for the fact that they are digital. But "digital" does not always equal "HD".

Just wanted to report that my Wide Open West SA8300HD DVR does support an external ESATA drive. I installed a Maxtor 500GB SATA HDD in a generic external ESATA enclosure, connected it to the SA8300HD and it immediately prompted me to format it.

I earlier had claimed ESATA was not active with WOW, but that was because I was using an IDE drive in the ESATA enclosure and apparently the SA8300HD didn't like the IDE>SATA conversion electronics.

My SA8300HD is running SARA 1.87.16.1

I doubt that you will ever get WOIO-DT with an indoor antenna. If you live in a single family home, your options appear to be getting cable or D* with local HD stations; or putting up an outdoor antenna.

I live around 6 miles south of the antenna farms in Parma; but had an outdoor antenna mounted on the roof when I got my first HD TV around 5 years ago. My house faces south; so I was able to have the antenna installed on rear roof of the home. You can't even see it when driving down the street (i.e., it's below the roof line). You may be too far away; but some people have luck installing them in the rafters of the garage or the home itself if you have the headroom.
I guess you could install the antenna in the basement or even bury it out in the back yard, for that matter! But antennas are designed to work out in the open, free of obstructions. And for digital TV that becomes even more important, as severe "ghosting" that you might be able to put up with watching an analog signal renders the digital signal useless. Maybe that's why Congress gave the FCC authority to pre-empt local government and covenental (homeowner's associations) laws and regulations restricting or banning the installation of OTA broadcast antennas. Now if they only could pre-empt the wife.........!

Cox Cleveland just added (Nov. 20)
NFL HD
Fox Sports HD ran a show! a Columbus hockey game.

My guide says FSNHD is showing the Cavs game tonight.

Browns/Bengals game will be HD this Sunday.

Browns/Bengals game will be HD this Sunday.

Wow. It's on CBS, right?

Wow. It's on CBS, right?

Yes, Browns will be on CBS Sunday at 1PM. I think we got lucky because there's 3 games on Thanksgiving and 2 of those games are AFC (normally CBS).

I guess you could install the antenna in the basement or even bury it out in the back yard, for that matter! But antennas are designed to work out in the open, free of obstructions. And for digital TV that becomes even more important, as severe "ghosting" that you might be able to put up with watching an analog signal renders the digital signal useless. Maybe that's why Congress gave the FCC authority to pre-empt local government and covenental (homeowner's associations) laws and regulations restricting or banning the installation of OTA broadcast antennas. Now if they only could pre-empt the wife.........!

I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.

I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.

WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO! :D :D :D

Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands that are till going out this Christmas and buying their 35" analog TV and are just loving the really low prices. There's an uncountable number of small screen TV's out there with antennas in cabled and satellite homes in kitchens and bedrooms. If they're lucky, really lucky, those people MAY get 2 DTV tuner vouchers with questionable front ends, meaning they'll get a nice clear sharp picture of "NO SIGNAL". There is still debate with the NTIA on how the vouchers will work and now after the election that process will only get worse. Pulling the "sticks" or "loop" out of the plastic isn't going to cut it for most people with digital. There's an education process that needs to happen in the broadcasting community that hasn't started yet.

This Christmas nobody should be able to buy a 25" or larger TV without an ATSC tuner, correct? FCC required this as of March 2006...

Edit: Just took a quick look at Best Buy's website and this seems to be true. All the 25" or larger tube SDTV's have ATSC tuners in them now.

This Christmas nobody should be able to buy a 25" or larger TV without an ATSC tuner, correct? FCC required this as of March 2006...

Edit: Just took a quick look at Best Buy's website and this seems to be true. All the 25" or larger tube SDTV's have ATSC tuners in them now.

The key phrase of the regulation is "manufactured after...". In stock TV's made before that date are grandfathered. So it is possible to get an NTSC TV without a DTV tuner today. This may affect discount internet orders rather than your local "Big Box" store, but buyer beware. All part of the education process.

WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO! :D :D :D

Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands that are till going out this Christmas and buying their 35" analog TV and are just loving the really low prices. There's an uncountable number of small screen TV's out there with antennas in cabled and satellite homes in kitchens and bedrooms. If they're lucky, really lucky, those people MAY get 2 DTV tuner vouchers with questionable front ends, meaning they'll get a nice clear sharp picture of "NO SIGNAL". There is still debate with the NTIA on how the vouchers will work and now after the election that process will only get worse. Pulling the "sticks" or "loop" out of the plastic isn't going to cut it for most people with digital. There's an education process that needs to happen in the broadcasting community that hasn't started yet.

I really enjoyed the "when I was your age" story by the way. :D

Yes, this is so true. Analog TVs may be dirt cheap, but people don't realize that those will be nearly useless in the near future, unless a digital tuner is provided. This means that I will have a few OTA TVs (including my 2.3" portable that I love to travel with) that will become crappy monitors. I hope that some advancements are made with putting digital tuners into small handheld OTA receivers, and I hope that the broadcasting OTA issues are worked out. But being as optimistic as I can, I'm confident that these issues will be worked out considering that this is still a new technology and people haven't been educated enough.

I really enjoyed the "when I was your age" story by the way. :D

It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.

It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.

I'm only 22, so I don't have the same story. But it seems that a lot of the older TV tuners had good sensitivity and high quality. I had an old B&W 12" 1979 TV as my first, and it always was able to get WFMJ-21 perfectly. I also had a 1983 color 13" that had good sensitivity. My newer TVs weren't able to do that with the same antenna, but I don't think that the newer ones were designed as sensitive for OTA signals since cable and satellite came out. Or perhaps it's just the typical "make things as cheap as possible for profit" mentality since the average consumer can't tell the difference.

Wow. It's on CBS, right? Yes, CBS however only WOIO. WKBN will have the Steelers @ Ravens. WYFX will have both FOX games (WJW got the 1 PM game balcked out due to the Browns being at home).

It was partially true for me. We actually got 2, 4, 11 and 13 out of Pittsburgh when I was 6. 6, 7, and 9 were 50% snow. We had a B&W Zenith with mechanical tuner with finger stock that brought the individual tuned channel segments online. After time, the finger stock became corroded. We called the "guy next door" and he'd come with his hard case of tubes and glass bottle of carbon tetrochloride and he'd pull the thing apart and clean everything. When the thing went bad, it would suddenly go to all snow and we'd stomp on the wood floors real hard to get the picture back. I must have been destined to my career back then because I found out if I spun the dial arounf enought times it would work for a couple days.

This is all off topic ofcourse but I too remember the old days of television. Since I grew up in Los Angeles we had channels 2,4,5,7,9,11 and 13. All black and white my parents were to poor to own a color. But hey, look at that channel selection! And as I recall back then all you really needed was just an antenna on the roof and you got a good picture. When UHF became available we got a couple more. They were real tough to pull in.

Anyway I had this black and white TV in my bedroom and when I first turned it on it would always have a problem with the horizontal but I would wack it on the side and it would straighten out every time.

Funny how things have changed so much.