Cleveland, OH - TWC [Text View] - Page 29

Rijax

11-22-06, 05:48 PM

WHEN I WAS A KID WE HAD 3 CHANNELS AND IF YOU COULD SEE A SHAPE MOVING AND UNDERSTAND THE SOUND IT WAS A GREAT PICTURE! AND WE LIKED IT! WE ALSO WALKED 20 MILES TO SCHOOL UP HILL...BOTH WAYS! AND WE LIKED THAT TOO! :D :D :D
So true, so true, except the part about the uphill 20 mile walk to and from school. We never liked that uphill 20 mile walk. ;)

When I moved to Cleveland (1951), there was only WNBK CH 4 (NBC), which changed to CH 3 and eventually became WKYC; WEWS CH 5 (ABC); and WJW CH 9 (CBS) which changed to CH 8.

TV21CHIEF

11-22-06, 05:54 PM

Funny how things have changed so much.

Yea, you don't whack it anymore. You reboot it. And it's not really off topic. Standing on a chair holding an antenna or tying it to a curtain rod is back. There's posts all over this thread about Silver Sensors on top of book shelves or jammed out a window a certain way. The only post I haven't seen yet is someone trying tin foil. The only difference is that now instead of snow or ghosts you get nothing.
The point is that whether it's 1960 or 2006, digital or analog, it's still RF and RF will always behave the same.

Inundated

11-22-06, 10:01 PM

It was 3, 5, 8, 23, 25 and 43 for me when I was growing up. 61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler, then left, then later came back. 55 wasn't even a gleam in Rev. Humbard's eyes atop the tower that was never finished. 45/49 were latecomers, as was 19, which showed up well after I graduated high school (!!!).

intermod

11-23-06, 07:25 AM

Channel 4 (DET) as well as wnem-d1 5-1
wnem-d2 5-2
wlns-dt 6-1
are rolling in on my UHF Yagi pointed at 300' .
Cant pick up WEWS with the ant that far north,

Scan for Channels
Happy Turkey Day!
Dan

BTW::
RE: Inundated "It was 3, 5, 8, 23, 25 and 43 for me when I was growing up. 61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler, then left, then later came back."

My Mom still has some 8mm film my Dad took when the KYW towers were erected!
KYW is still on the air in Philly.

intermod

11-23-06, 08:02 AM

I'm glad that someone has mentioned this, because this is one of the downsides to OTA digital that no one has bothered to mention. An analog signal that can be viewable may not be viewable at all with digital. There are a couple stations that I will have to give up watching after analog disappears. This is something we'll have to deal with after analog is gone, but digital isn't all it's cracked up to be. It can be improved, and I don't agree with the FCC's way of pushing their control on everything.

"What Stations will you miss?, You don't have to throw away the analog sets,
and if the station didn't upgrade to digital, they will go off the air anyway.
The Canadian stations suck,

"Living life north of line "A" "

Dan

wd8kct

11-23-06, 08:37 AM

Seriously though there is a lot of education that needs to be done for the countless thousands

like making it known that digital OTA exists!
people I've talked to aren't even aware that you can get
digital TV without paying...
the cable/DBS brain washing has succeeded...

Ed...

Rijax

11-23-06, 09:54 AM

61 just showed up on the scene when I was a toddler... Oh Gad! I worked at 61 (WKBF) when it first went on the air (1968). I had just graduated from college. Didn't work there that long (6 months?). Uncle Sam figured he needed my help to resolve a little conflict in Viet Nam. Regret to say I wasn't much help. :o

Rijax

11-23-06, 10:24 AM

My Mom still has some 8mm film my Dad took when the KYW towers were erected!
KYW is still on the air in Philly. That whole KYW thing was weird. KYW, which originated in Philadelphia, and the NBC affiliate here in Cleveland, WNBK, swapped owners and stations. The Cleveland station now became KYW, and WNBK was changed to WRCV in Philadelphia.

Then, a number of years later the FCC said "Whoops! You guys can't do that! You have to swap back again." KYW went back to Philadelphia taking some of the staff with it (Mike Douglas, for example). In fact, Dick Goddard was working at KYW, and he went to Philadelphia (he shortly returned, hired by WJW, channel 8, and has been there ever since). The station which was originally in Cleveland came back, changing their call letters to WKYC. :confused:

hookbill

11-23-06, 10:27 AM

Oh Gad! I worked at 61 (WKBF) when it first went on the air (1968). I had just graduated from college. Didn't work there that long (6 months?). Uncle Sam figured he needed my help to resolve a little conflict in Viet Nam. Regret to say I wasn't much help. :o

Thanks for your service. I know it's Thanksgiving, not Veterens Day but just want to let you know we appreciate.

twaller

11-23-06, 10:33 AM

Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!

intermod

11-23-06, 12:04 PM

That whole KYW thing was weird. KYW, which originated in Philadelphia, and the NBC affiliate here in Cleveland, WNBK, swapped owners and stations. The Cleveland station now became KYW, and WNBK was changed to WRCV in Philadelphia.

Then, a number of years later the FCC said "Whoops! You guys can't do that! You have to swap back again." KYW went back to Philadelphia taking some of the staff with it (Mike Douglas, for example). In fact, Dick Goddard was working at KYW, and he went to Philadelphia (he shortly returned, hired by WJW, channel 8, and has been there ever since). The station which was originally in Cleveland came back, changing their call letters to WKYC. :confused:

I'm not sure of how much FCC involvement there was, Westinghouse owned
The KYW license in Phili, Then NBC bought up a bunch of Licenses , KYW included, and moved it here to Cleveland,
NBC also owned WTAM AM . Cant recall the FM affiliate, Nobody had an FM Rx anyway! TAM was WWWE then. Then RCA (Who owend NBC at the time)
Divested a bunch of stuff and Westinghouse bought back KYW and moved back to
Phili. Dad could have moved with KYW but with me and my brother just starting
skool, Mom said no and Dad signed with RCA/NBC till he retired in '70.. Interesting to note that WTAM was once owned by the Willard Storage Battery Co.
in the day, and ran that 50kw AM off batteries. "Cleanest Carrier on the air"
was the Tag.

/Dan
Gooble Gooble

Rijax

11-23-06, 03:11 PM

Thanks for your service. I know it's Thanksgiving, not Veterens Day but just want to let you know we appreciate. Thank you. Kind of you to say that. It was one of those experiences that, when living it, wasn't much fun, and I'd have rather been just about any other place in the world. But, having returned home in one piece, I'm glad for the experience.

paule123

11-23-06, 03:19 PM

Rijax

11-23-06, 03:45 PM

I'm not sure of how much FCC involvement there was, Westinghouse owned
The KYW license in Phili, Then NBC bought up a bunch of Licenses , KYW included, and moved it here to Cleveland,
NBC also owned WTAM AM . Cant recall the FM affiliate, Nobody had an FM Rx anyway! TAM was WWWE then. Then RCA (Who owend NBC at the time)
Divested a bunch of stuff and Westinghouse bought back KYW and moved back to
Phili. Dad could have moved with KYW but with me and my brother just starting
skool, Mom said no and Dad signed with RCA/NBC till he retired in '70.. Interesting to note that WTAM was once owned by the Willard Storage Battery Co.
in the day, and ran that 50kw AM off batteries. "Cleanest Carrier on the air"
was the Tag.

/Dan
Gooble Gooble In 1956, NBC pressured Westinghouse into swapping ownership of their stations in Cleveland and Philadelphia, respectively. Westinghouse took ownership of WNBK-TV and WTAM AM & FM in Cleveland and moved the KYW call letters from Philadelphia to all 3 Cleveland stations. NBC took ownership of KYW TV-AM in Philadelphia and changed the call letters to WRCV TV-AM.

From Wikepedia.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KYW-TV)

In 1965, after a protracted legal battle, the FCC ordered the swap of stations reversed without NBC realizing any profit on the deal. In 1965, when the FCC reversed the swap, the KYW call letters returned to Philadelphia while the Cleveland cluster became WKYC-AM-FM-TV. In 1972 the AM and FM radio stations were sold by NBC, and became WWWE and WWWM respectively. In 1996, the call letters were returned to the ones used when the radio station first went on the air in 1923 - WTAM.

Gobble Gobble back atacha. :)

paule123

11-23-06, 09:05 PM

Is anybody getting the football game on NFL Network HD tonight? On Wide Open West I've got a blank screen/no sound. Not a great debut for the NFL Network!

Edit: I just called WOW and there's a recorded message saying LIVE games on the NFL Network are blacked out on WOW. What the hell is this?

Andrew K

11-23-06, 09:35 PM

Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!

This is so true!! You may be in Michigan and getting NE Ohio signals, and I'm getting signals from your direction... great atmospheric conditions.

Andrew K

11-23-06, 09:40 PM

"What Stations will you miss?

WKBN and WFMJ are just a couple that I can get through analog but not digital, and I'm using the same antenna for both. WOIO and WKYC I get with a little work and almost no effort needed for the analog. That's what I mean by improvements needed in digital. This week I've noticed that I can get a lot of analog signals from the Detroit area that I don't usually get, but it's extremely hard for me to get the digitals.

rlockshin

11-23-06, 10:05 PM

WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.
Can someone else confirm?
All other OTA seem fine

rlockshin

11-23-06, 10:09 PM

hookbill

11-23-06, 10:13 PM

WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.
Can someone else confirm?
All other OTA seem fine

Coming in fine via TW Cable. I even checked CSI, the whole show is there.

rlockshin

11-23-06, 10:17 PM

Coming in fine via TW Cable. I even checked CSI, the whole show is there.

I have it thru Direct Tv,but my outside antenna is not getting it
Can someone with anenna check channel?

hookbill

11-23-06, 10:25 PM

I'm not sure why it would make a difference. TW gets it OTA same as everyone else does. Sounds like your just not getting it.

Inundated

11-23-06, 10:26 PM

I can't reliably get WOIO-DT OTA here, and my antenna isn't in the house right now...

But I'm pretty sure hookbill is correct, and that TWC picks it up OTA, at least in Cleveland.

Oh, here's what the NFL Network looks like on TWC/Cleveland:

:D

paule123

11-23-06, 10:40 PM

I'm getting WOIO-DT OTA just fine here in Shaker Heights.

Time Warner people - are you getting the NFL Network game LIVE right now?

TV21CHIEF

11-23-06, 10:40 PM

paule123

11-23-06, 10:46 PM

FYI I got a nice email from my cable provider essentially saying the NFL network was way too expensive to carry the Thursday and Saturday night games. My cable provider said that it would not be fair to charge subs for those games only and just blacked it out.

I talked to a CSR at WOW tonight and he said the NFL wants MORE money to carry the LIVE games. We've got NFL Network on WOW but the live game is blacked out tonight. I'm calling the NFL Commissioner's office tomorrow. The greedy bastards have gone too far.

HD MM

11-24-06, 07:50 AM

WOIO Ch 19 must be off the air.
Can someone else confirm?
All other OTA seem fine

I was unable to access WOIO 19.1 OTA in Lyndhurst all day yesterday as well. I figured there was way too much VHF interference with everyone's ovens/microwaves blazing yesterday for Turkey-day!

BTW, NFL Network HD came in fine for me via Dish Network. Wasn't too impressed with the coverage though. Can anyone tell me how Deion Sanders is still employed in broadcasting?

HD MM

11-24-06, 07:55 AM

I think CBS just screwed us on the HD Browns game this Sunday. During the Lions game they showed the graphic listing Sunday games on CBS and the little HD icon was NOT next to the Browns game. I checked TitanTV and the HD icon is not on the game either.

I saw the same thing. I was looking forward to this. I already had plans in hosting a Browns party just because it was supposed to be in HD!

Keep your fingers crossed.......

NFL Maps still show this game being broadcast in HD. (http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/12-CBS.gif)

akron05

11-24-06, 08:25 AM

Andrew K

11-24-06, 10:37 AM

Last night I had an interesting night of (unintentional) DXing...all analog:

I am NOT an experienced DX'er at all...so I don't know if it's tropo ducting, e-skip or what, but I've gotten stuff on almost every station on the dial tonight...

I have NOT MOVED my rooftop antenna, and from Akron, OH was getting (all analog):

-WGRZ Channel 2, ABC, Buffalo
-WDIV NBC, Channel 4, Detroit
-WKBW ABC 7, Buffalo, might also be WXYZ Detroit, also an ABC on Channel 7
-CBET Channel 9, CBC, Windsor, Ontario
-CPFL Channel 10, London, Ontario
-WBKB Channel 11, CBS, Alpena, MI
-WJRT Channel 12, ABC, Flint, MI
-Channel 13, CTV (this one was as crystal-clear as my locals, might have been out of Ottawa since I don't know any other CTV on Channel 13 to the north of here)
-WNED Channel 17, PBS Buffalo (OVER TOP of WDLI, it's overpowering it and I don't see WDLI at all!)
-WDJT-TV Channel 58, CBS, Milwaukee (for about a minute or so)
-WWJ CBS 62, Detroit
-Presumably CJMT-TV Channel 69 in Toronto

I also got blips of several other stations, mostly Canadian ones on the UHF dial that I couldn't find online, I think they may have been translators of the above ones.

The 13 in Canada is most likely the CTV in Kitchener, which I've also got here in Akron before. The channel 69 that you got is most likely the one I have listed in London, Ontario. Last night was the perfect night for tropo. ducting, but I don't think it got to the e-skip (nothing extremely far like Florida). It was getting late, and I could've got more, but here's what I got here in Akron last night with the silver sensor...

4 WDIV DETROIT
7 WXYZ DETROIT
7 WTRF WHEELING
9 WTOV STEUBENVILLE
11 WTOL TOLEDO
12 WICU ERIE
13 WTVG TOLEDO
14 WUTV-DT BUFFALO
16 WQEX PITTSBURGH
17 WNED BUFFALO
24 WJET ERIE
29 WUTV BUFFALO
32 WNLO-DT BUFFALO
35 WOUB-DT CAMBRIDGE
35 WSEE ERIE
36 WUPW TOLEDO
38 WADL DETROIT
40 CBLN LONDON, ON
42 CKCO SARNIA, ON
44 WOUB CAMBRIDGE
51 CHCH LONDON, ON
54 WQLN ERIE
56 WTVS DETROIT
57 WTOV-DT STEUBENVILLE
58 WJBK-DT DETROIT
66 WFXP ERIE
68 WMFD MANSFIELD
69 CFMT LONDON, ON

akron05

11-24-06, 10:37 AM

Great day for long distance reception! From my location near Lansing MI, I am picking up WJW-DT, WQHS-DT, and WEWS-DT!

See my last post - I was getting a BUNCH of Michigan and Ontario stations last night and even briefly got a blip from CBS on Channel 59 (analog) out of Milwaukee!

akron05

11-24-06, 10:39 AM

WKBN and WFMJ are just a couple that I can get through analog but not digital, and I'm using the same antenna for both. WOIO and WKYC I get with a little work and almost no effort needed for the analog. That's what I mean by improvements needed in digital. This week I've noticed that I can get a lot of analog signals from the Detroit area that I don't usually get, but it's extremely hard for me to get the digitals.

One thing that should help *some* is when the analogs go off the air, eliminating that interference. Also, some stations are still not at 100% power.

akron05

11-24-06, 11:12 AM

The 13 in Canada is most likely the CTV in Kitchener, which I've also got here in Akron before. The channel 69 that you got is most likely the one I have listed in London, Ontario. Last night was the perfect night for tropo. ducting, but I don't think it got to the e-skip (nothing extremely far like Florida). It was getting late, and I could've got more, but here's what I got here in Akron last night with the silver sensor...

4 WDIV DETROIT
7 WXYZ DETROIT
7 WTRF WHEELING
9 WTOV STEUBENVILLE
11 WTOL TOLEDO
12 WICU ERIE
13 WTVG TOLEDO
14 WUTV-DT BUFFALO
16 WQEX PITTSBURGH
17 WNED BUFFALO
24 WJET ERIE
29 WUTV BUFFALO
32 WNLO-DT BUFFALO
35 WOUB-DT CAMBRIDGE
35 WSEE ERIE
36 WUPW TOLEDO
38 WADL DETROIT
40 CBLN LONDON, ON
42 CKCO SARNIA, ON
44 WOUB CAMBRIDGE
51 CHCH LONDON, ON
54 WQLN ERIE
56 WTVS DETROIT
57 WTOV-DT STEUBENVILLE
58 WJBK-DT DETROIT
66 WFXP ERIE
68 WMFD MANSFIELD
69 CFMT LONDON, ON

I think the Channel 69 I got was also CFMT then, the station ID up in Canada is lacking, I was doing an online search and only found the Toronto station. I did also get slme fuzz from WFXP but since I don't have a rotor at the moment, I couldn't try to tune it in any better.

TheBlackKnight

11-24-06, 11:25 AM

akron05

11-24-06, 11:45 AM

I first noticed the enhanced atmospherics starting Wednesday night. I actually locked onto WLNS-DT (6-1 in Lansing, MI) in the early evening (about 7:30). Later that night, I saw channel 16 analog in South Bend, IN and even channels 26 (WCIU, independent) and 32 (WFLD, Fox 32) from Chicago, IL at about 11:30!! :eek: These were nearly local quality signals. A little before midnight, I was able to lock onto WGTE-DT (30-1, Toledo PBS). It was nice being able to see PBS HD programming, even if they do run a couple of subchannels with it!

The enhanced reception continued into this AM, with Detroit stations coming in like locals, especially analog 4, 7 and 62. I locked onto WKBD-DT (50-1, Detroit's CW) also. As an added bonus, I picked up on analog 32 an Ontario station which I believe is CICO-TV from Windsor. It appears to be their version of PBS called Ontario TV, showing Canadian content children's programming and also Dora the Explorer.

As a result of all this extra RF from the north and west, my local station reception has been affected. I have had problems at various times the past two days with WOIO-DT and -TV, WJW-DT and -TV, WEWS-DT, and WVIZ-TV. WOIO seems to be the most affected. Ironically, the station I typically have the most trouble with, WKYC-DT, has been very strong the past couple of days.

I noticed problems on WUAB analog and digital, and WOIO-DT, worse than usual. I didn't get any distant DT's but didn't try too hard, I got good signal strength from a couple Detroit and Toledo stations, but couldn't get a lock on anything.

akron05

11-24-06, 11:48 AM

I first noticed the enhanced atmospherics starting Wednesday night. I actually locked onto WLNS-DT (6-1 in Lansing, MI) in the early evening (about 7:30). Later that night, I saw channel 16 analog in South Bend, IN and even channels 26 (WCIU, independent) and 32 (WFLD, Fox 32) from Chicago, IL at about 11:30!! :eek: These were nearly local quality signals. A little before midnight, I was able to lock onto WGTE-DT (30-1, Toledo PBS). It was nice being able to see PBS HD programming, even if they do run a couple of subchannels with it!

The enhanced reception continued into this AM, with Detroit stations coming in like locals, especially analog 4, 7 and 62. I locked onto WKBD-DT (50-1, Detroit's CW) also. As an added bonus, I picked up on analog 32 an Ontario station which I believe is CICO-TV from Windsor. It appears to be their version of PBS called Ontario TV, showing Canadian content children's programming and also Dora the Explorer.

As a result of all this extra RF from the north and west, my local station reception has been affected. I have had problems at various times the past two days with WOIO-DT and -TV, WJW-DT and -TV, WEWS-DT, and WVIZ-TV. WOIO seems to be the most affected. Ironically, the station I typically have the most trouble with, WKYC-DT, has been very strong the past couple of days.

I did get a Toledo PBS station in analog for a few minutes, and the Channel 11 I got turned out to be WTOL, not the Alpena station. I was waiting for station ID and didn't get one so I assumed it was Alpena due to the area code on a local carpet company advertisement, but I guess it was just something in the Michigan part of the market. Turned it on a few minutes ago and sure enough it's WTOL. Channel 13 in Toledo is totally unseen, instead on 13 I'm getting the CTV Kitchener, Ontario station, as clear as I get my Cleveland analog locals.

The other stations were mostly watchable except the Milwaukee one I got briefly, most of the Detroit and Buffalo as well as WTOL had some snow, but no worse than what I usually get with the Youngstown analogs when my antenna is aimed at them. In fact, probably a bit better.

rlockshin

11-24-06, 12:24 PM

WOIO is back at full power. They must have had issues . I had it at 35% early this morning and now it is 80.
It had to have been them

Andrew K

11-24-06, 01:44 PM

Here are some samples of the tropospheric ducting here in Akron. They're all analogs. I couldn't get a reliable lock on any distant digitals.

WTVG-13 Toledo
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV017.jpg

WTOV-9 Steubenville
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV011.jpg

WICU-12 Erie
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV014.jpg

WDIV-4 Detroit
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV007.jpg

WJET-24 Erie
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV003.jpg

Here's my reception on WFMJ-21 but still no lock onto WFMJ-DT 20.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/DXingTV008.jpg

akron05

11-24-06, 03:30 PM

Cool stuff.

intermod

11-25-06, 05:30 AM

Acording to Hepburn the Tropp will improve this weekend!!
Sunday looks great!

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Dan

JJkizak

11-26-06, 10:09 AM

AAhh yes, one form of anamolous probagation, instead of the VHF/UHF RF going straight it kind of bends around the curvature of the earth. If you had a 30 ft parabolic antenna that would rotate and elevate and a parametric front end on your tv just think of all the stuff you could pick up. (Receiver sensitivity -103 dbm for 20 db quieting, noise figure 1.8 db.)

JJK

HD MM

11-26-06, 01:10 PM

What the hell is going on with WOIO 19.1?

I thought the Browns game was supposed to be in 1080i HD?

Did someone at the station forget to flip the switch? What's going on? :mad:

Kerbs

11-26-06, 01:15 PM

No HD on WHIO in Dayton. CBS problem?????

hookbill

11-26-06, 01:20 PM

The Browns were originally scheduled for HD, but CBS apparently changed their mind before the week end came they were removed from the HD games. Translation: Who cares about Cleveland? :rolleyes:

paule123

11-26-06, 03:57 PM

What the hell is going on with WOIO 19.1?

I thought the Browns game was supposed to be in 1080i HD?

Did someone at the station forget to flip the switch? What's going on? :mad:

No problem with WOIO, CBS screwed us. The promos running on CBS Thanksgiving day indicated the game was NOT going be HD. They switched the HD crew over to the HOU/NYJ game.

CBS Sports never updated the website, nor did the gribblenation NFL maps indicate the change.

hookbill

11-26-06, 04:08 PM

Well, the game would have looked bad even in HD. Just as well. :)

jsehlms

11-26-06, 04:51 PM

Maybe you guys can offer some suggestions. I didn't dare read through all 235 pages from 2003, but here we go.

Recently I had my roof re-done. At the time, the roofers removed the small antenna I had on the side of my house which I used to receive HD stations. With the small antenna (about 12" long) I was able to get 3, 5, 8, 19, 43 with no problems. I'm using media center with a Dvico Fusion 5 tuner and with the small antenna my reception was 50-75% at best on all stations. 5 was the lowest, 8 was the highest (sometimes all 5 bars on the MCE tuning guide).

Well since they removed the small antenna, I had them come out and hook up the large angenna I had from the previous tenants. I found out from the land lord both antennas were ther when they lived int he house more than 10 years ago. THe larger antenna had the double wire coming down, so I got an adapter and ran new RG6 up to the antenna and had the roofers hook it up. I came in and checked and I had excellent reception on 3, 5, 19, but 8 and 43 had medium reception. I was happy as everything came in. Well in the last few days, both 43 and 8 won't pick up a signal. When I do the antenna signal strength in MCE both channels have 2 of 5 bars (red).

If I switch over to analog signal for my tv, 8 comes in perfectly. 43 however is nothing but snow.

So, my question is what antenna's do you use or at least recommend. I'm thinking maybe this antenna is just too old (if that's even a possibility). I live within the city limits of Cleveland by 176 so distance shouldn't be an issue as the furthest distance according to antennaweb is 5.4miles.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jason

geocab

11-26-06, 06:03 PM

Translation: Who cares about Cleveland? :rolleyes:

I keep trying, but their O-line just makes it harder and harder every week. This team is nothing but an embarassment to our town.

Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment. I wish the Browns were on Fox. The picture looks way better to my eyes than CBS and the crowd in 5.1 is really nice.

At least Pittsburgh lost.

tf4

11-26-06, 06:16 PM

hookbill

11-26-06, 06:36 PM

hi,

I I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.

First, you can still get a used D-TiVo in ebay and it will be supported for the next 3 years. However as your probably aware that would require OTA for your locals which is your problem already.

Or....

You can sign up with Time Warner and get a TiVo Series 3. Get all your locals in HD and they won't be the mpeg 4 thing that D* is offering with their H-20. It's expensive but you would still have TiVo. If you go to the TiVo forum you can get one for around 700.00 which is a hundred less then you would pay retail.

I love mine!

akron05

11-26-06, 07:42 PM

I keep trying, but their O-line just makes it harder and harder every week. This team is nothing but an embarassment to our town.

Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment. I wish the Browns were on Fox. The picture looks way better to my eyes than CBS and the crowd in 5.1 is really nice.

At least Pittsburgh lost.

This was one of those games where I ask - why even bother to show up to play?

ZManCartFan

11-26-06, 08:04 PM

hi,

I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time.

If you haven't already, you may want to check the recommendations at http://www.antennaweb.org. This may give you the kind of info you're looking for down to your specific street address. It will at least tell you how likely you are to get the various stations based on different sized antennas.

Good luck!

tf4

11-26-06, 08:05 PM

hookbill

11-26-06, 10:05 PM

Hookbill,

Awesome I am glad someone else here has a Tivo 3. I was looking at that as well.

Are you OK with the quality of the REGULAR non-hdtv broadcasts? I am not a huge fan of digital cable, it seems washed out and blocky to me. My brother-in-law has digital cable, granted it isn't on a nice TV set but I'd hate to invest $700 in a STB and have it not be very good.

Also how much does Warner charge for rental of 2 cable cards? I wish they would post figures on their site.

Here's the deal. I used the cable companys SA 8300 for 2 years. Not being able to compare it with anything else as far as pq goes I just assumed that the really bad quality picture I got on standard definition was due to the cable. After I got the S3 however not only did the pq increase on HD but on SD programs it was extremely better, and I do mean extremely. Shows like Nip/Tuck on FX I enjoyed but suffered through the bad pictures. Now it's crystal clear, not HD quality but still much better.

TW charges 1.75 for the first card and 4.50 for the second per month. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it is.

Trust me. Get the S3. It's the way to go.

JJkizak

11-27-06, 10:50 AM

My uncle I believe has analog cable. He wants to go to HD. Will he have to get the digital cable package? He has one digital HDTV and 3 analog tv's.
JJK

JJkizak

11-27-06, 10:53 AM

Channel 3.1 OTA saturday college football game was the worst HD I have seen. However the 3.1 sunday night pro game was fantastic. What do they do to screw things up?
JJK

hookbill

11-27-06, 11:40 AM

My uncle I believe has analog cable. He wants to go to HD. Will he have to get the digital cable package? He has one digital HDTV and 3 analog tv's.
JJK

I think so but it depends. I assume his HDTV has an HD tuner. If so, then I would think he would have to get digital and cable cards. I think.

If he has an HD ready tv and he is thinking about an S3 then no, he wouldn't need it. However he would have no guide info.

I don't think they offer just an HD hook up anymore and that would mean the SA 8300. Either way, digital will be required.

tf4

11-27-06, 12:35 PM

Here's the deal. I used the cable companys SA 8300 for 2 years. Not being able to compare it with anything else as far as pq goes I just assumed that the really bad quality picture I got on standard definition was due to the cable. After I got the S3 however not only did the pq increase on HD but on SD programs it was extremely better, and I do mean extremely. Shows like Nip/Tuck on FX I enjoyed but suffered through the bad pictures. Now it's crystal clear, not HD quality but still much better.

TW charges 1.75 for the first card and 4.50 for the second per month. Don't ask me why, that's just the way it is.

Trust me. Get the S3. It's the way to go.

I am going to call TW and see what the cost per month is relative to what I am paying. If you don't mind my asking isn't your cable bill over $100/m if you are paying for the Tivo service and extra boxes as well? All I need to make sure I get is Noggin for the kids, Food channel, "O' channel for wife and HBO. I think Noggin made it to their mid road tier for some reason.

Does the S3 have that 'home networking' option so I can basically watch it in another room with radio wave remotes? I like that feature that Dish Network has.

I am going to do some shopping on the net and see if I can land a S3 for under $700.

hookbill

11-27-06, 12:50 PM

I am going to call TW and see what the cost per month is relative to what I am paying. If you don't mind my asking isn't your cable bill over $100/m if you are paying for the Tivo service and extra boxes as well? All I need to make sure I get is Noggin for the kids, Food channel, "O' channel for wife and HBO. I think Noggin made it to their mid road tier for some reason.

Does the S3 have that 'home networking' option so I can basically watch it in another room with radio wave remotes? I like that feature that Dish Network has.

I am going to do some shopping on the net and see if I can land a S3 for under $700.

My bill is around 134.00 but that includes high speed internet and hbo with the Silver package. Noggin is in digital first tier and food network is in basic second tier (analog).

Right now the S3 does not have MRV, they are working with cable cards to get that going. It may be that HD will not be available that way, just SD but that's just a rumour. You can use the S3 to listen to music files or view photos on your television. Also right now eSATA is not available but we expect that fairly soon.

At this moment I'm not seeing anything under 800.00. Last week there was a sale and you could get it for 700.00 but that's over. Think about this though before you shop. If you buy cheaper can you get an extended warranty? If not I'm not sure I'd roll the dice. By purchasing at Circuit City I got a 3 year exteneded warrany with guaranteed replacement for 60.00. Also be very careful about where you buy. To the best of my knowledge the only other place that offered TiVo S3 cheaper was Costco. That would be a good buy if still available.

tf4

11-27-06, 01:05 PM

My bill is around 134.00 but that includes high speed internet and hbo with the Silver package. Noggin is in digital first tier and food network is in basic second tier (analog).

Right now the S3 does not have MRV, they are working with cable cards to get that going. It may be that HD will not be available that way, just SD but that's just a rumour. You can use the S3 to listen to music files or view photos on your television. Also right now eSATA is not available but we expect that fairly soon.

At this moment I'm not seeing anything under 800.00. Last week there was a sale and you could get it for 700.00 but that's over. Think about this though before you shop. If you buy cheaper can you get an extended warranty? If not I'm not sure I'd roll the dice. By purchasing at Circuit City I got a 3 year exteneded warrany with guaranteed replacement for 60.00. Also be very careful about where you buy. To the best of my knowledge the only other place that offered TiVo S3 cheaper was Costco. That would be a good buy if still available.

I just called and for the package I want silver/2 CC's/HBO It is going to be $75.45/m which is about as much as I pay for DirecTV right now. I'd have to eat this cost for the tivo though. I wish the price wasnt so expensive. I could just upgrade my DirecTV pay another $10.00 per month for the service and a 99.00 dvr charge. It would be cheaper in the short term then get the Tivo at a later date when the prices go down.

k2rj

11-27-06, 01:20 PM

Why isn't every game in HD at this point anyway, regardless of who's playing? They've had a few years now to buy the equipment.
On the 17th, while attending the Radio Club of America banquet in New York City, I had the opportunity to speak to the Sony VP in charge of HD equipment for the U.S. market as well as the former (just retired) chief engineer of the PBS station in NYC. They gave me answers to two questions that keep popping up here on this forum:

1. Why doesn't CBS broadcast all NFL games in HD?
The main reason given is the shortage of production trailers. There is only one company that integrates all of the equipment necessary into mobile trailers/vans and they cannot keep up with demand. Evidently, they have only been able to deliver 4 - 6 trailers per year and Fox, ABC and ESPN plus some of the regional sports networks had orders in before CBS did.

2. Why can't/don't the locals "time-shift" HD programming?
(We've heard many answers to this one over the year or so I've been on this board.) They say the equipment to studio-record HD is commonly available and that an hour's worth of HD programming typically is compressed into about 40 GB of memory storage. Digital tape is more common, but hard drive storage equipment is also available. They say nobody records uncompressed video, since that's the way it is stored transmitted by the network. They said the most plausible answer to the question is $$$ - where the stations in this market choose to budget their money.

lefkas

11-27-06, 03:28 PM

Last night I had an interesting night of (unintentional) DXing...all analog:

I am NOT an experienced DX'er at all...so I don't know if it's tropo ducting, e-skip or what, but I've gotten stuff on almost every station on the dial tonight...

I have NOT MOVED my rooftop antenna, and from Akron, OH was getting (all analog):

-WGRZ Channel 2, ABC, Buffalo
-WDIV NBC, Channel 4, Detroit
-WKBW ABC 7, Buffalo, might also be WXYZ Detroit, also an ABC on Channel 7
-CBET Channel 9, CBC, Windsor, Ontario
-CPFL Channel 10, London, Ontario
-WBKB Channel 11, CBS, Alpena, MI
-WJRT Channel 12, ABC, Flint, MI
-Channel 13, CTV (this one was as crystal-clear as my locals, might have been out of Ottawa since I don't know any other CTV on Channel 13 to the north of here)
-WNED Channel 17, PBS Buffalo (OVER TOP of WDLI, it's overpowering it and I don't see WDLI at all!)
-WDJT-TV Channel 58, CBS, Milwaukee (for about a minute or so)
-WWJ CBS 62, Detroit
-Presumably CJMT-TV Channel 69 in Toronto

I also got blips of several other stations, mostly Canadian ones on the UHF dial that I couldn't find online, I think they may have been translators of the above ones.

On Wednesday night, I was watching WVIZ-TV on Time Warner Cable Channel 2 here in North Canton and getting a clear broadcast of Channel 25 somewhere in Central Michigan. I'm guessing Time Warner picks up that channel via OTA antenna and was simply re-transmitting what it was getting--Channel 25 in Michigan overriding Channel 25 in Cleveland.

pogamoggan1

11-27-06, 05:07 PM

Hi,

Just wondering what channels are available over Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland suburbs? Wondering if getting a QAM tuner would be useful or not.

Thanks.

Poga

geocab

11-27-06, 05:16 PM

On the 17th, while attending the Radio Club of America banquet in New York City, I had the opportunity to speak to the Sony VP in charge of HD equipment for the U.S. market as well as the former (just retired) chief engineer of the PBS station in NYC. They gave me answers to two questions that keep popping up here on this forum:

1. Why doesn't CBS broadcast all NFL games in HD?
The main reason given is the shortage of production trailers. There is only one company that integrates all of the equipment necessary into mobile trailers/vans and they cannot keep up with demand. Evidently, they have only been able to deliver 4 - 6 trailers per year and Fox, ABC and ESPN plus some of the regional sports networks had orders in before CBS did.

2. Why can't/don't the locals "time-shift" HD programming?
(We've heard many answers to this one over the year or so I've been on this board.) They say the equipment to studio-record HD is commonly available and that an hour's worth of HD programming typically is compressed into about 40 GB of memory storage. Digital tape is more common, but hard drive storage equipment is also available. They say nobody records uncompressed video, since that's the way it is stored transmitted by the network. They said the most plausible answer to the question is $$$ - where the stations in this market choose to budget their money.

Thanks for the answer. :)

hookbill

11-27-06, 05:26 PM

Hi,

Just wondering what channels are available over Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland suburbs? Wondering if getting a QAM tuner would be useful or not.

Thanks.

Poga

Since it's your first post I won't lecture you to much, but let's just say Google is your friend. :)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/1/Content%20Management/Customer%20Service/documents/ADCCChannels8106/TWCCWK-5013%20NEO%20IP%20LU-ClevSub_072006c.pdf

Cathode Kid

11-27-06, 09:00 PM

Since it's your first post I won't lecture you to much, but let's just say Google is your friend. :)

http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/1/Content%20Management/Customer%20Service/documents/ADCCChannels8106/TWCCWK-5013%20NEO%20IP%20LU-ClevSub_072006c.pdf

One can ascertain which channels are in QAM format from that document, but it doesn't indicate which of those are in the clear. AFAIK, the HD versions of the broadcast channels are in the clear and maybe one or two other channels. You won't see HBO or other premium services in "clear QAM" on any cable system.

Thus far there are no PCs that will directly support CableCards for the encrypted channels. Microsoft has announced that Vista will support CableCards but only on a specially-built pc that employes a "protected path" for the video content.

CK

cemkf3

11-28-06, 07:58 AM

hookbill

11-28-06, 09:33 AM

Last night my wife went to the eye doctor and came home with some contact lenses. She said they were the same prescription she had for her eye glasses. My wife has maintained for the past two years she cannot tell the difference between SD and HD.

So we set down to watch TV. Shark was the first show. She says, "Honey, have you done something to the TV?" I said no. She said, "But it looks really different. I mean it's so much..." she struggled a bit and I said, "almost like your looking out a window?" She said, "Yes, exactly. It almost looks 3D too." I said, "Congratulations, you can now see HD."

She commented throughout the evening and when we watched a SD show she admitted she could see the difference.

I know I've heard a couple other guys out there say there wives don't get it. May I suggest contacts? :D

DaMavs

11-28-06, 09:50 AM

I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!
I'm due east of you in Bainbridge & pick-up the HD feeds for 3-5-8-19-43 (plus a few others) fairly reliably (occasional dropouts in rain/wind but overall pretty reliable of late) with a Winegard SquareShooter and pre-amplifier which are mounted on a 2nd level deck facing due west & the Parma antenna farm. I do live on a hill so I have good elevation and no hills higher than me between Bainbridge and Parma.

I'd be surprised if you could get reliable reception on 3 with an indoor in Solon unless you had optimal conditions. A roof mount should work for you OK in Solon, at least presuming you're not in a valley, but you may need a pre-amp depending on what antenna you go with.

I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.
I have 2 D* HD Tivos and just added an HR20 to "test drive" it before making the leap. My HR20 has only flaked once requiring a reboot that I've noticed in a little over a month. The fast forward takes some getting used to relative to the Tivo, but I'm mostly using it for overflow/backup recordings currently so it's not getting the daily use the Tivos do. One silver lining was it snared Survivor last Thursday when both Tivos had blank recordings OTA - I'm presuming the odd atmospheric conditions last week brought in analog 10 from Canada too strongly which killed the 19-1 OTA broadcast for me, but the D* MPEG4 feed was unaffected. Made the wife happy.

You might consider looking for an HR10-250 Tivo unit on Ebay or through a place like Value Electronics (forum sponsor & a very good vendor) if you decide to stay Tivo/D* - that'll keep your wife happy w/Tivo & you can probably get setup with a 2nd HR20 if you get the right rep & are willing to pay the extra $5 per month for an extra box to get a feel for if it's too buggy or not for your tastes. 'Course you'll still need an OTA to drive the HD-Tivo for locals so maybe that's no help...

Good luck - an OTA mount is worth it, to get the HD locals FWIW. Nothing beats HD football...

kinglerch

11-28-06, 03:50 PM

I have a E* question. I don't know if it has been answered before, but it is often hard on this forum to search for generic terms like 'E*', 'dish', 'sports', etc. But I read that Dish Network (E*) was adding regional sports networks in HD this fall. I guess they have already done so in some markets.

What is the status of FSN Ohio in HD on Dish Network? Is there a date when/if it will be?

Brian81

11-28-06, 04:41 PM

I lost 43-1 yesterday.

Also, every now and then HD BONUS channel (normally #798) will be on the TNT HD channel #779 and HD BONUS chennel #798 will be empty. What is up with this?

FYI - Time Warner customer.

akron05

11-28-06, 09:37 PM

akron05

11-28-06, 09:39 PM

OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:

Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?

hookbill

11-28-06, 09:53 PM

OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:

Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?

I have heard that some video/audiophiles can see the difference, but imho the only difference is in price. I stumbled into a pair of Monster optical digital audio cables at Target of all places on sale for 6 bucks. That's ridiculously cheap for Monster so I bought them but I also got a pair on line for like 5.00. I don't hear any difference.

I was also talked into Monster Cables when I first got my HDTV. Not knowing there were cheaper available I bought them. Once I found cheaper ones I bought them and returned the Monster Cables. I couldn't tell any difference.

Pucky

11-28-06, 10:30 PM

I have heard that some video/audiophiles can see the difference, but imho the only difference is in price. I stumbled into a pair of Monster optical digital audio cables at Target of all places on sale for 6 bucks. That's ridiculously cheap for Monster so I bought them but I also got a pair on line for like 5.00. I don't hear any difference.

I was also talked into Monster Cables when I first got my HDTV. Not knowing there were cheaper available I bought them. Once I found cheaper ones I bought them and returned the Monster Cables. I couldn't tell any difference.

I've used both, too, and haven't noticed a difference. Good speaker wire, but not necessarily Monster, is good for the surround sound, but I've found good price cables, which seem to be very well made, on sites like monoprice.com.

HD MM

11-29-06, 07:35 AM

kinglerch

11-29-06, 07:54 AM

Read this previous posting regarding E* LiL's and regional sports in HD...... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8902489&&#post8902489)

That was such an exact answer to my question and only a few weeks ago, you'd think I could have found it, but oh well...thanks for the help.

kinglerch

11-29-06, 08:07 AM

OK everyone - a slightly off-topic question:

Are Monster Cable products any better than the cheapo cables or not? Or do they just "look" cool?

This is a question that rarely gets a satisfactory answer. The companies who make the cables show the difference on an analyzer. Audiophiles buy Monster cable (a friend of mine buys even more expensive) and claim they can tell the difference. When you spend the extra $, you may notice a difference that isn't there.

I remember a test on a popular website, maybe hometheatrespot. They hooked up everything the same, listened to a variety of material, and compared the cables. I think they liked one of the middle brands (i.e. not Monster and not crap cables).

IMO, you can look at cables from a more educated point of view. How much resistance is in the cable? What is the distance? What is the cable trying to do? What information is it carrying?

For example, if it is an optical or other digital cable, no one will ever convince me a Monster cable will make a difference. If the distance to each speaker is short, there is no interference from other components, and the resistance of any cable is small, I can't imagine how/why the cable would make a difference. But on the other side, if the distance is far (higher resistance) and/or you are running through areas of possible interference...a thicker more shielded cable would be a better choice.

JJkizak

11-29-06, 08:28 AM

If you want to expand your knowledge of cables and results you can try the "Klipsch Forum"where they talk about $5000.00 hookup cables with amps in them or silver wire versus copper wire. Some people actually say they can see/hear the difference. I believe it is all interactive balogney. The one thread I really appreciated was the guy that used old coat hangers and said he could hear the difference.

JJK

hookbill

11-29-06, 09:21 AM

This is a question that rarely gets a satisfactory answer. The companies who make the cables show the difference on an analyzer. Audiophiles buy Monster cable (a friend of mine buys even more expensive) and claim they can tell the difference. When you spend the extra $, you may notice a difference that isn't there.

I remember a test on a popular website, maybe hometheatrespot. They hooked up everything the same, listened to a variety of material, and compared the cables. I think they liked one of the middle brands (i.e. not Monster and not crap cables).

IMO, you can look at cables from a more educated point of view. How much resistance is in the cable? What is the distance? What is the cable trying to do? What information is it carrying?

For example, if it is an optical or other digital cable, no one will ever convince me a Monster cable will make a difference. If the distance to each speaker is short, there is no interference from other components, and the resistance of any cable is small, I can't imagine how/why the cable would make a difference. But on the other side, if the distance is far (higher resistance) and/or you are running through areas of possible interference...a thicker more shielded cable would be a better choice.

You bring up some good points about distance and interference. Probably the better shielded cables would be your best bet (monster), but unless the interference is noticeable the best way to go for most people is with decent quality but less expensive cables. Everything I have read points to the average HD user not truly being a videophile. We may have some of those here in this forum but I'll bet you that at least 90% of the people who purchase an HD television don't have a clue about the cables. I bought Monster because I was at Best Buy and the guy said you need these cables. I looked at the price and said, "anything cheaper?" and he said no. Only a week later because I was a member of this forum did I find out different.

And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.

Also I'll be over 90% of the average HD viewers don't have a clue about tuneing up their HD sets.

akron05

11-29-06, 10:02 AM

You bring up some good points about distance and interference. Probably the better shielded cables would be your best bet (monster), but unless the interference is noticeable the best way to go for most people is with decent quality but less expensive cables. Everything I have read points to the average HD user not truly being a videophile. We may have some of those here in this forum but I'll bet you that at least 90% of the people who purchase an HD television don't have a clue about the cables. I bought Monster because I was at Best Buy and the guy said you need these cables. I looked at the price and said, "anything cheaper?" and he said no. Only a week later because I was a member of this forum did I find out different.

And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.

Also I'll be over 90% of the average HD viewers don't have a clue about tuneing up their HD sets.

I don't know HOW MANY people I've run into that had no idea that they weren't watching any real HD because they were connecting their cable through the RF input on an HD-ready TV (w/no ATSC tuner, which means it was being downconverted to analog RF) as opposed to component or HDMI. Or worse yet, didn't even have a source of HD and assumed they were watching Hi-Def. And they wondered why they "didn't notice that much of a difference."

rRooster

11-29-06, 10:44 AM

akron05

11-29-06, 11:44 AM

akron05

11-29-06, 11:46 AM

I totally agree on the fact that most people that get an HDTV are clueless. I had both a neighbor and my grandparents buy $1500+ flat screen LCD's and tell me they didn't see a difference. On further investigation (going to their homes)
I found neither were using an HD source.

I think people just like the stigma of having a flat panel in their home?

neighbors' TV didn't have a QAM tuner - and when I suggested a Cable Box - They said $10 a month was too much - I don't get it

-on the bright side though

Grandpa got the box and has since gotten really into HD football and Discovery Programs

Was at my fiance's parents house earlier this year and her dad was going on about this gread DLP HDTV he had but that the picture wasn't as good as in the store even though he had subscribed to HD service from his cable company. He remarked that even the hi-def programs on the HD channels themselves looked the same. I hooked the cable box up through the component video and suddenly he said "wow, that is a lot better." He had it hooked up either through s-video or RF, dunno which, and it was the GUY AT THE CABLE COMPANY that had done it that way!

akron05

11-29-06, 12:06 PM

I hate to break this to you but the CW is not in "HD" in Youngstown. Digital, yes, but it's an SD subchannel of WFMJ-DT (Rf 20). This is also true of the FOX affilliate WYFX which is an SD subchannel of WKBN-DT (Rf 41) and My-TV (or My "YTV" as they like to call it) which is an SD subchannel of WYTV-DT (Rf 36).

In one respest WBCB (The Youngstown CW) is better than WBNX if only for the fact that they are digital. But "digital" does not always equal "HD".

Is WBNX's digital stick up and running yet?

Michael P 2341

11-29-06, 12:20 PM

Is WBNX's digital stick up and running yet?No, not until spring '07.

hookbill

11-29-06, 02:32 PM

No, not until spring '07.
They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.

akron05

11-29-06, 03:52 PM

They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.

IIRC we're waiting on:

WBNX
WAKC

That's it, I think...

Cathode Kid

11-29-06, 09:50 PM

And for what it's worth the cables the cable company gives out arn't bad. When they took my SA 8300 back I told them I was using the cables elsewhere and they said they didn't care. They didn't even take the remote.

A friend of mine who sells HD cable sets dissected one of hers as well as one of those expensive cables, then she passed them around for examination. Her HDMI cable was something like 10 bucks and the competing store-brand product was ten times that cost.

Do you think we saw much of a difference? Nope. :rolleyes:

hookbill

11-29-06, 09:53 PM

IIRC we're waiting on:

WBNX
WAKC

That's it, I think...

I think it's WBNX and WNEO.

akron05

11-29-06, 11:32 PM

I think it's WBNX and WNEO.

WNEO/WEAO is up IIRC.

clevemkt

11-30-06, 09:18 AM

WAKC became WVPX 8 years ago. Waiting for incore channel IIRC
WNEO is Youngstown mkt.
WEAO is Cleveland-Akron (Canton) mkt.

WNEO has been DTV since Nov '03.
WEAO has been DTV since Aug '04.

hookbill

11-30-06, 09:30 AM

Sorry guys, I'm sure it's WNEO. That's what is listed in Zap2it.com and also you can look here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/1/Content%20Management/Customer%20Service/documents/ADCCChannels8106/TWCCWK-5013%20NEO%20IP%20LU-ClevSub_072006c.pdf) at the Time Warner lineup for our area. Also handsworth, who is always right told us that it would be WNEO and also Universal Channel but he did not say when.

SteveC

11-30-06, 10:42 AM

They had previously said they had hoped to have it running for cable and satellite by November, however that has not occurred.

The WBNX website actually says the cable feed was supposed to happen in late October. I sent them an email to programming asking for an update but all I got in reply was an error message from their mail server saying that mailbox was full. I guess that means nobody looks at it anyway. Does anyone have an email address of a real person at WBNX?

HD MM

11-30-06, 11:08 AM

hookbill

11-30-06, 11:11 AM

Looks like this Sunday's Browns game is to be broadcast in beautiful 1080i on CBS-HD. Maybe we should all hold our breath on this one since CBS pulled the plug on their HD promises last week......

http://www.gribblenation.net/nflmaps/13-CBS.gif

I'm not much on sit coms but I'll tune in. :rolleyes: What does it matter at this point if it's in HD, SD, or for that matter braille. These guys suck no matter how you look at them.

akron05

11-30-06, 11:36 AM

WAKC became WVPX 8 years ago. Waiting for incore channel IIRC
WNEO is Youngstown mkt.
WEAO is Cleveland-Akron (Canton) mkt.

WNEO has been DTV since Nov '03.
WEAO has been DTV since Aug '04.

Whoops - yes it became WVPX when Paxson bought it. I'm so used to calling it WAKC though.

akron05

11-30-06, 11:37 AM

I'm not much on sit coms but I'll tune in. :rolleyes: What does it matter at this point if it's in HD, SD, or for that matter braille. These guys suck no matter how you look at them.

At least we can watch them get their butts kicked in HD...

:D

clevemkt

12-01-06, 08:43 AM

akron05

12-01-06, 10:25 AM

What's the diff? It's identical to WNEO. From a Cable perspective you don't really know which one they are sending over the lines. I'd assume they'd use WEAO for better reception from the recieving station or what-ever-you-call-it but does it really matter?

Brian81

12-01-06, 10:45 AM

hookbill

12-01-06, 10:55 AM

Does Time Warner (Cleveland) still have Cinemax HD? Just curious as the local channel listings aren't listed on Time Warner's site, and the closest ones I could find that had a listing available was Akron or Medina, and neither listed Cinemax HD, just Showtime HD and HBO HD. Time Warner isn't dropping channels, are they? :(

Cinemax is still available in HD, along with HBO, Showtime, Starz. I don't recall if The Movie Channel was. Here's (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/1/Content%20Management/Customer%20Service/documents/ADCCChannels8106/TWCCWK-5013%20NEO%20IP%20LU-ClevSub_072006c.pdf) an adobe lineup with all their channels, it doesn't list the premium in the HD tier but they are available if you subscribe.

Argee

12-02-06, 08:00 PM

Any DirecTV subscribers been without ch19 HD for today? I know of at least one other NE Ohio person who says its gone. I have not called DTV yet but curious what is going on?

atperson100

12-02-06, 08:57 PM

Any ETA rumors for WEWS news in HD? I read it was supposed to happen by the end of 2006.. We're nearing 2007 now.

gnalmij

12-02-06, 10:29 PM

Any DirecTV subscribers been without ch19 HD for today? I know of at least one other NE Ohio person who says its gone. I have not called DTV yet but curious what is going on?
Worked OK for me this evening, with a few seconds of pixelation.

Argee

12-02-06, 11:10 PM

Ok they (DirecTV) got my two HD receivers reset and I am getting 19 HD Mpeg 4 feed. Another guy posted on DBSTALK that he had lost 19 HD as well so something must have burped last night for at least two of us!

bgiese

12-03-06, 10:10 AM

I lost 19-HD on Saturday and after calling them (5pm) I still couldn't get it back.
They had me reboot, reprogram, unhook the converters, and they even deactivated my smartcard --- nothing worked -- I still couldn't get 19-HD.

They tried to tell me the problem must be in Cleveland. I called WOIO and confirmed they were broadcasting in HD and found out several people had been calling them.

Then last night the channel started working again.

This morning it was out for me again. I called DirecTv and they had me to a reboot and now the channel is working again.

The reboot didn't work yesterday (at least not immediately) but today it did.

hopefulhdtvguy

12-03-06, 11:42 AM

Has anyone else had problems with Fox 8.1 Audio? I am using an OTA installed on my roof and my video is excellent. A few months ago, we noticed the volume used to fluctuate. It wasn't constantly happening, but some days it would happen every 15 minutes or so. It stopped doing that for a few weeks and now the sound will drop out completely. It lasts about 15 to 20 seconds and can occur within 5 minutes of the last drop. Sometimes it can go days without a problem, but I noticed it happens more often on Sundays during football games and prime time shows. There are no audio problems with the SD transmission on DirecTV; so I'm wondering if it's the transmission or maybe my antenna.

This is frustrating because now my wife wants the TiVo to record the Fox SD channels rather than the HD, because of the audio drop-outs.

Any ideas?

TLaz

12-03-06, 11:59 AM

paule123

12-03-06, 12:00 PM

hookbill

12-03-06, 12:47 PM

hopefulhdtvguy

12-03-06, 02:46 PM

I am using a DirecTiVo HD HR10-250 and a Sony ES Receiver. I am getting all the other digital feeds okay.

Inundated

12-03-06, 05:39 PM

OK, hookbill. Are you sitting down?

Yes, I finally have a *real* HDTV set in the living room.

OK, so I snuck in the back door via a $699 32" Westinghouse LCD model, but it's a real one!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/Inundated/brownsgame1.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f253/Inundated/brownsgame2.jpg

The above from my recording of today's Browns/Chiefs game on the SA8000HD...and boy, am I already getting picky about macroblocking on football games!!! :D

Tom in OH

12-03-06, 06:03 PM

OK, hookbill. Are you sitting down?

Yes, I finally have a *real* HDTV set in the living room.

OK, so I snuck in the back door via a $699 32" Westinghouse LCD model, but it's a real one!
The above from my recording of today's Browns/Chiefs game on the SA8000HD...and boy, am I already getting picky about macroblocking on football games!!! :D

It's about time you finally caved !! :p

Welcome to *real* HDTV. The new Westy looks great.

hookbill

12-03-06, 06:11 PM

OK, glad to see it. Now how are you going to record your HD shows? Might I recommend the TiVo S3? ;) I think today is the last day that you can pick one up from the TiVo Forum show with 150.00 instant rebate.

Nice price on the set.

You were watching HD on your LCD computer screen, correct?

And look you brought The Browns good luck! That's the best game they played all year. And now we get to have a QuarterBack controversy!

Inundated

12-03-06, 06:37 PM

hookbill

12-03-06, 10:09 PM

I'm considering an S3, actually. I'm not sure I want to spend more on it than I spent on this set (!!), but I'm running into the SA8000HD's limitations rather quickly.

I'm actually thinking of swapping out for an 8300, and if I'm not happy with that, down the road...you know? Hey, it took me this long.

Doesn't the 8300 have PQ improvements over the 8000? Again, it's no TiVo S3 (believe me, you don't have to sell me on a TiVo vs. a cable DVR), but it wouldn't cost me $800 or whatever discount I could get on the S3. Not getting it today - my credit card is already screaming. :)

I was indeed watching HDTV on my PC with the Fusion5USB. I can still do that downstairs, if I so desire. But I've been using that on the go more than not.

In all honesty I didn't see any improvement pq wise between the 8000 and the 8300. The part that really gets me as far as pq goes is how bad some of the analog stations came in.

Now here's where the S3 really steps up to the plate. PQ on analog IMHO is actually better then on the digital channels (HD excluded). Channels like FX and USA which really came in ugly on both the SA units are so much clearer and crisp.

But do it your way. Actually the S3 cost the same as my HDTV, but my TV is 2 years old now.

paule123

12-03-06, 10:11 PM

I'm considering an S3, actually. I'm not sure I want to spend more on it than I spent on this set (!!), but I'm running into the SA8000HD's limitations rather quickly.

I'm actually thinking of swapping out for an 8300, and if I'm not happy with that, down the road...you know? Hey, it took me this long.

Doesn't the 8300 have PQ improvements over the 8000? Again, it's no TiVo S3 (believe me, you don't have to sell me on a TiVo vs. a cable DVR), but it wouldn't cost me $800 or whatever discount I could get on the S3. Not getting it today - my credit card is already screaming. :)

I was indeed watching HDTV on my PC with the Fusion5USB. I can still do that downstairs, if I so desire. But I've been using that on the go more than not.

You should definitely swap for the SA8300HD, it won't cost you anything and you'll get a better box. Off the top of my head, improvements are HDMI and quicker channel changes. The disk also seems to run a lot quieter. I could always hear the SA8000HD churning away in the living room.

The archive search function here is pretty bad, so I can't find the exact post, but yes, the SA8300HD provides more visible resolution than the SA8000HD. Something about a better ATI video chipset and/or video drivers. Like hook says, I can't really see that difference, but I've never hooked up a true 1080p set to it to tell the difference. Usually got a 1024x768 plasma hooked up to it.

Inundated

12-03-06, 10:15 PM

But do it your way. Actually the S3 cost the same as my HDTV, but my TV is 2 years old now.

Well, I'll "do it your way" if you promise to pay for my S3. :D Remember how long it took me to get to this point!

I asked about the PQ improvement between the 8000 and 8300 because I thought I'd seen somewhere (even from you) that there was. I suppose that means nothing compared to the S3, tho.

Again, I don't need to be sold on it. But we're talking no cost but the hassle of swapping boxes for the 8000 vs. 8300, vs. the cost of the S3. I'll probably eventually end up getting it, though I worry that TWC could switch on SDV - which would make those cable cards useless for the channels that do SDV.

hookbill

12-03-06, 10:18 PM

Inundated

12-03-06, 10:18 PM

Inundated

12-03-06, 10:22 PM

I admit I did say that I thought the pq was better on the 8300 then the 8000. I ran mine on 480p and I thought there was some improvement. Now I'm not so sure.

Funny how when you get something like the S3 your mind becomes a bit clouded on those issues. :)

Umm, hookbill? Holidays are here. Give your favorite board poster the gift of an S3. I'll even pick up the TiVo service fees! ;)

Seriously, though...the swap out for an 8300 is the Path of Least Resistance, if I can get them to just let me bring in the 8000 and swap for a new one. It costs me no more than the 8000 does, and if there's even a slight improvement in PQ, so much the better.

And maybe when the S3 drops closer to the under $500 range...I can justify it to my budget...

burgher

12-04-06, 06:09 AM

Also, glad to report that D*'s mpeg 4 feed of 19.1 was encoded properly yesterday. No more fake (pre-recorded) looking football games !!!!!

hookbill

12-04-06, 07:32 AM

Umm, hookbill? Holidays are here. Give your favorite board poster the gift of an S3. I'll even pick up the TiVo service fees! ;)

Although I would truly love for you to experience the S3 enough to want to purchase one for you, I have this thing about not wanting to die. And truly death would be what would happen to me the moment my wife found out I did something like that. So trust me, it's not that I don't have giving spirit. It's my desire to breathe in and out that prevents me from doing that.

I'll tell you what. After you get your 8300 set up and check it all out I'll invite you to my house to look at the S3. Then when you leave Circuit City is right close by and you can pick one up on the way home (if they have them in stock). :)

k2rj

12-04-06, 09:11 AM

You should definitely swap for the SA8300HD, it won't cost you anything and you'll get a better box. Off the top of my head, improvements are HDMI and quicker channel changes. The disk also seems to run a lot quieter. I could always hear the SA8000HD churning away in the living room.

The archive search function here is pretty bad, so I can't find the exact post, but yes, the SA8300HD provides more visible resolution than the SA8000HD. Something about a better ATI video chipset and/or video drivers. Like hook says, I can't really see that difference, but I've never hooked up a true 1080p set to it to tell the difference. Usually got a 1024x768 plasma hooked up to it.
I'll second that. Once I got my SA8300-to-Panasonic 44" RPLCD video interface configured properly, my SD picture quality is excellent. In fact, the other nite we wound up watching a movie the wife recorded from LMN which was in letterbox format. I expanded it to fill the screen and was amazed with the quality. With my set, I wound up configuring the output of the 8300 to 720p to match the native resolution of the Panny (I'm using component video).

Some differences I found between the 8000 and 8300:
- The PIP is higher resolution
- Channel change is much faster
- Digital audio output is available from all channels, not just the digital ones.
- Has optical digital audio out in addition to RCA jack PCM audio.
- Has a much larger hard drive.

k2rj

12-04-06, 09:13 AM

akron05

12-04-06, 09:33 AM

Slightly off-topic, but a peeve/observation.

I am amazed at HOW MANY people, even with a decent analog TV, have satellite or digital cable, plus a DVD, plus a VCR and have NO IDEA that they can connect ALL THREE of the components through something other than the RF input on their TV and get a better quality picture in the process. And not have such a complicated setup.

I was at a friend's house the other night, and he had his DISH box running into the VCR, and the VCR into the TV through the RF input, with his DVD on an RF modulator AND A SWITCHER for the RF input.

The guy had two s-video outputs w/ audio inputs on his damn TV!!! And another set of A/V inputs w/composite video. With a few cables he still had in the closet that came with all the components, I showed him how to hook them in and use the three "auxillary" channels to run everything and get a noticeably clearer picture. Esp. since it appears his TV's internal tuner isn't that great anyway. He actually exclaimed "holy sh*t" when I had his DISH box turned on and first hooked up the S-video, switching the TV from Channel 2 or 3 where the RF input was going to the S-video input.

hookbill

12-04-06, 09:42 AM

Especially when you spend all that money!!!!

That money I spent was wll spent. I thought I saw a difference between the 8000 and 8300. With the S3 it is very clear that there is a major difference in pq, now I wouldn't say that HD pq appears too much different but analog is so much better it's incredible.

Having said that how the S3 handles HD is far superior. Very few sound drop offs. Picture is consistantly great, and that's the THX technology. It was worth every penny I spent on it.

akron05

12-04-06, 10:10 AM

k2rj

12-04-06, 12:55 PM

That money I spent was wll spent. I thought I saw a difference between the 8000 and 8300. With the S3 it is very clear that there is a major difference in pq, now I wouldn't say that HD pq appears too much different but analog is so much better it's incredible.

Having said that how the S3 handles HD is far superior. Very few sound drop offs. Picture is consistantly great, and that's the THX technology. It was worth every penny I spent on it.
I was just jerking your chain!

Analog and/or SD digital rendering is definately the achilles heel of most sets/systems. Like I mentioned above, I saw a vast improvement when I froze the output of the 8300 at 720p.

As far as sound goes, I can't remember the last time I experienced an audio drop-out (that wasn't accompanied by a picture drop-out or pixelation). I use the optical output of the 8300 to my receiver which powers my Bose system. I wonder how many of your 8300 problems were really related to using the external hard drive? I know you had loads of problems with it and its possible a buggy driver was causing other systems problems as well...

But I'm glad the S3 is working better for you (and the wife acceptance factor has gone up since she got her contacts!) ... Sounds like a good system!

hookbill

12-04-06, 01:35 PM

I was just jerking your chain!

Analog and/or SD digital rendering is definately the achilles heel of most sets/systems. Like I mentioned above, I saw a vast improvement when I froze the output of the 8300 at 720p.

As far as sound goes, I can't remember the last time I experienced an audio drop-out (that wasn't accompanied by a picture drop-out or pixelation). I use the optical output of the 8300 to my receiver which powers my Bose system. I wonder how many of your 8300 problems were really related to using the external hard drive? I know you had loads of problems with it and its possible a buggy driver was causing other systems problems as well...

But I'm glad the S3 is working better for you (and the wife acceptance factor has gone up since she got her contacts!) ... Sounds like a good system!

Hey, no problem here. My experience with the 8300 was not the same as most people. Which is why I like the S3 so much now.

ZManCartFan

12-04-06, 02:18 PM

To add to my comment, I wonder how many people complaining about either digital cable or satellite picture quality would see it improved if they went with the S-video instead of RF.

Depends on the quality of the TV. For most high-end TV's, I've found the picture quality of digital cable and satellite to be worse with higher-quality connections. The quality of the set actually amplifies the imperfections of the compressed signal.

It's kind of like being able to see the wrinkles around the eys of your favorite actress when watching her in HD. She's almost prettier when there are things left to the imagination.

akron05

12-04-06, 05:15 PM

Depends on the quality of the TV. For most high-end TV's, I've found the picture quality of digital cable and satellite to be worse with higher-quality connections. The quality of the set actually amplifies the imperfections of the compressed signal.

It's kind of like being able to see the wrinkles around the eys of your favorite actress when watching her in HD. She's almost prettier when there are things left to the imagination.

All true. Said example is a 32" JVC SDTV.

akron05

12-04-06, 05:36 PM

Michael P 2341

12-04-06, 06:19 PM

OK another techie question:

We're splitting a RG6 cable carrying OTA HDTV signals from the antenna. It's split into three over a cable run of 65 feet prior to the split and 30 feet after.

How much amplifier do I need to bring the signal strength back to the "original" before the splits and long cable run?
Don't even think about amplifiers until you try it without amps. You may need an amp, however see what you get without an amp. An overamplified HD signal may cause dropouts or no reception at all.

JJkizak

12-04-06, 07:43 PM

Mechanical splitters typically loose about 3 db of signal at UHF frequencies. They also tend to screw up the impeadence. What you should aim for is the biggest, baddest attenna (rotatable 30 ft parabolic) with 5/8"Styroflex" lead-in and connectors and electronic splitters and a 20 db pad to knock down the VSWR. But what I just described will cost more than your house. If you throw in a parametric front end it will cost two houses. Oh well,
such is life in the high tech world.

JJK

akron05

12-05-06, 12:58 AM

Sorry guys, I'm sure it's WNEO. That's what is listed in Zap2it.com and also you can look here at the Time Warner lineup for our area. Also handsworth, who is always right told us that it would be WNEO and also Universal Channel but he did not say when.

When PBS 45 & 49 begin HD again, TWC will be using WEAO...believe me. (Despite what their marketing folks think)

Right this minute, I can recieve the digital signals of:

WKYC
WEWS
WJW
WOIO
WDLI
WEAO
WUAB
WOAC
WQHS

CANNOT get WVIZ no matter what I do. Also can't get a lock on any of the Youngstown DT stations, probably because a large stand of pine trees is right in the path of the antenna.

k2rj

12-05-06, 08:54 AM

OK another techie question:

We're splitting a RG6 cable carrying OTA HDTV signals from the antenna. It's split into three over a cable run of 65 feet prior to the split and 30 feet after.

How much amplifier do I need to bring the signal strength back to the "original" before the splits and long cable run?
Assuming you are not real close to any FM or land-mobile towers, the amplifier at the antenna should have about 10 dB more gain than the losses in the cables/splitters. A 3-way split will be about 5 dB and I'd say about 8-10 dB for the RG-6 to be on the conservative side, so you'd want an amp having about 20-25 dB gain.

Rbuchina

12-05-06, 08:56 AM

rlb

12-05-06, 09:09 AM

Will FOX show the Browns vs Steelers game Thursday night in HD or will it just be a down converted SD version of the game? I'm deciding if I want to go to a friends house with DISH network or stay home and watch TWC in my PJs on HDFOX.

Ray

Guide on my HDTivo doesn't reflect HD; however, I can't imagine why local Fox wouldn't show it in HD.

hookbill

12-05-06, 09:46 AM

Guide on my HDTivo doesn't reflect HD; however, I can't imagine why local Fox wouldn't show it in HD.

Same thing here. And I'll tell you why they won't show it in HD. It's not presented by FOX Sports it's presented by NFL Network, which will probably not release HD rights out to local broadcasters.

terryfoster

12-05-06, 09:55 AM

We had the Bengals/Ravens game in HD last Thursday broadcasted by our local NBC affiliate. It's more likely due to the Fox splicer system they may not have the equipment necessary to process the HD signal from NFL Network and transmit it out to you.

akron05

12-05-06, 10:04 AM

Assuming you are not real close to any FM or land-mobile towers, the amplifier at the antenna should have about 10 dB more gain than the losses in the cables/splitters. A 3-way split will be about 5 dB and I'd say about 8-10 dB for the RG-6 to be on the conservative side, so you'd want an amp having about 20-25 dB gain.

Should the amp go up at the antenna, or right before the splitter? Or does it not matter much?

BTW I did try to split w/o an amp and lost WOIO and WOAC (not that I care about that one, I don't watch shopping channels) in the process on both the existing TV and the new one. Can't lock now. When I remove the amp it comes back. All the other stations still seemed OK.

Rbuchina

12-05-06, 10:52 AM

I am not expecting it to be HD either. I just could not find anything on it so I thought I would ask the question. I know in the past when ESPN has carried Sunday night football games with the Browns the local Cleveland channel covering the game did not carry the HD.

Ray

paule123

12-05-06, 10:55 AM

Right this minute, I can recieve the digital signals of:

WKYC
WEWS
WJW
WOIO
WDLI
WEAO
WUAB
WOAC
WQHS

CANNOT get WVIZ no matter what I do. Also can't get a lock on any of the Youngstown DT stations, probably because a large stand of pine trees is right in the path of the antenna.

You'll never get WVIZ unless you live more or less across the street from their Brookpark facility. They're using a wimpy temporary 100 watt transmitter until they get the issues worked out with their main tower.

akron05

12-05-06, 11:14 AM

I have a Norwood HDTV PC tuner card. Dunno if anyone knows about this, but I don't care much for the software that came with it. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good, cheap or free software that will work with my card?

kinglerch

12-05-06, 11:58 AM

Should the amp go up at the antenna, or right before the splitter? Or does it not matter much?

BTW I did try to split w/o an amp and lost WOIO and WOAC (not that I care about that one, I don't watch shopping channels) in the process on both the existing TV and the new one. Can't lock now. When I remove the amp it comes back. All the other stations still seemed OK.

The amp should normally be put as close to the antenna as possible, but it is an inexact science. Amps can sometimes amplify noise on an otherwise decent channel.

I use two antennas (one VHF, one UHF) pointed in different directions, then summed together using a splitter backwards, then boosted 25dB (with FM trap - Radio Shack model) for 100 ft of RG6 cable. Other configurations (like moving the booster later in the chain) didn't work well for me.

With this configuration I get all of Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown very well...however, no WVIZ.

Michael P 2341

12-05-06, 01:35 PM

Michael P 2341

12-05-06, 01:47 PM

You'll never get WVIZ unless you live more or less across the street from their Brookpark facility. They're using a wimpy temporary 100 watt transmitter until they get the issues worked out with their main tower.
Boy I can testify to that! I live 3 miles from that Brookpark Rd. tower and have to move my Silver Sensor to a north-facing window in order to get a lock on WVIZ. All the other stations blast through the walls but not VIZ.

BTW: in addition to 1 kw, the tower is only 99' tall.

BTW BTW: They don't even put the regular programming (i.e. what's shown on the analog station) on a subchannel the way WEAO does. Inorder to watch the main feed of WVIZ you need to watch in analog :p

rlb

12-05-06, 01:51 PM

I guess we won't know until gametime. When WEWS carried ESPN's Sunday Night Football's coverage of the Browns last season it was SD (with interference in the video :p).

WJW may only have the rights to the SD feed like WEWS did, otoh we all may get lucky and get the HD feed.

BTW: the game is not on "FOX", rather WJW is preempting FOX programming to show the NFL Network's coverage of the game. I wonder which affilliate got the game in Pittsburgh?

Does anyone know if NFL Network uses 720p, or is it 1080i? Our Fox local probably couldn't handle 1080i. In fact, given the strict architecture of the Fox network, they might even have problems handling 720p if it came from a source other than the Fox network.

terryfoster

12-05-06, 02:40 PM

Does anyone know if NFL Network uses 720p, or is it 1080i? Our Fox local probably couldn't handle 1080i. In fact, given the strict architecture of the Fox network, they might even have problems handling 720p if it came from a source other than the Fox network.

Yeah, that's what I was alluding to earlier. NFL Network broadcasts in 1080i and the Fox Splicer equipment probably cannot process a HD feed from a source other than Fox's head end. So you should expect to see a SD broadcast tonight, unless your O&O Fox affiliate bought equipment to handle HD sources from outside of Fox.

lefkas

12-05-06, 03:55 PM

I emailed Fox 8 programming this afternoon and asked if they planned to carry the Browns-Steelers game in hi def. They said "yes."

hookbill

12-05-06, 05:24 PM

I emailed Fox 8 programming this afternoon and asked if they planned to carry the Browns-Steelers game in hi def. They said "yes."

I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.

But then again I'm am just an average person trying to look at this thing, not a television executive. I'm sure for FOX it's a plus.

Michael P 2341

12-05-06, 07:18 PM

I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.

But then again I'm am just an average person trying to look at this thing, not a television executive. I'm sure for FOX it's a plus.
I don't think so. What percentage of TW subscribers have HDTV's? Sure a few of us would call, but we are not the majority (yet).

Someday this will change, just not today.

Inundated

12-05-06, 08:03 PM

I believe you of course but it really doesn't make sense. With TW holding most of the broadcasting and not delivering the NFL Network it would, IMHO be smart of the NFL Network to refuse the HD broadcast. Otherwise, what is really the point of the NFL Network in HD? Not showing it my cause TW's phones to go ring ring ring tomorrow with complaints demanding NFL Network.

The full "ring ring" would be if the game wasn't available at all. We're still in the minority. :D

This seems to be the first year that HD local broadcasts of cable NFL games, in the home markets, is the norm. There must be something to that.

salemtubes

12-06-06, 12:10 AM

I wonder which affilliate got the game in Pittsburgh?

KDKA - channel 2; KDKA-DT - channel 2.1 (RF channel 25)

akron05

12-06-06, 12:52 PM

The amp should normally be put as close to the antenna as possible, but it is an inexact science. Amps can sometimes amplify noise on an otherwise decent channel.

I use two antennas (one VHF, one UHF) pointed in different directions, then summed together using a splitter backwards, then boosted 25dB (with FM trap - Radio Shack model) for 100 ft of RG6 cable. Other configurations (like moving the booster later in the chain) didn't work well for me.

With this configuration I get all of Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown very well...however, no WVIZ.

Does anyone have a link to the list of final digital channel allocations? Somebody found a list of what channel the major US stations will go to permanently after the 2009 analog shutoff.

PTXer

12-06-06, 02:31 PM

Good day all. Just found this forum and trying to get the most out of my new HDTV. I am going for the OTA approach and live in Kent. According to antennaweb I am 22 to 23 miles from the antenna farm for most of the Cleveland stations. Right now I can only get a digital signal from WNEO with my rabbit ears so I am going to the roof. I have been considering a Winegard CS2200 (amplified) just because its small and unobtrusive. My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees. This antenna is good for the distance range I am in, but I know the trees will hinder that. Will a bigger antenna help me or will the trees block out the signal to whatever antenna I put up there? Thanks for any advice

Tom

hookbill

12-06-06, 03:06 PM

TW sent a tech out because they detected a problem with my return signal when I had an internet outage last week. I pumped his brain for some answers.

I appears that no changes will be made until June of 2007. But when they change, it's going to be a big time change.

As Inundated suspected they are going to switch all channels to their current system. Everything will be standardized.

Road Runner will be started then.

Customer support techs may come from different areas and the will probably be soon. He told me I will be supported out of the Chardon office as opposed to the Macedonia office. Time Warner likes to do it by County.

I asked what type of software they will be using and he said Scientific Atlanta, so I pressed him if it would be Passport or SARA. He said it will be passport.

That ought to make things interesting.

What happens with everyone's DVR? Will they have to be switched out or can they make a transition from Passport to SARA?

Head end for my area is coming out of Cleveland.

What about my cable cards? Does it matter that they are changing Passport to SARA on the SA 8300 to me?

All starts in June!

akron05

12-06-06, 03:42 PM

k2rj

12-06-06, 04:48 PM

TV21CHIEF

12-06-06, 05:13 PM

The amp should be as close to the antenna as possible. You want to minimize any loss before the amp.

Try it without the amplifier first. You may not need it.

akron05

12-06-06, 05:21 PM

Try it without the amplifier first. You may not need it.

Already did - I lost WOIO and WOAC. With the splitter those two stations don't lock - WOIO because it's weak and WOAC probably because my antenna is pointed about 100 degrees away from it and before it was strong enough to blow through anyway since it's only 9 miles away at most.

Don't care about WOAC but I need my NFL and David Letterman so I hooked the single TV back up w/o the splitter.

wd8kct

12-07-06, 08:11 AM

Does anyone have a link to the list of final digital channel allocations? Somebody found a list of what channel the major US stations will go to permanently after the 2009 analog shutoff.
Google "FCC-06-150A1.PDF"...

JJkizak

12-07-06, 08:58 AM

Akron05:
I have a DC9000 antenna and found that after trying three different amplifiers, Samsung T165 tuners (2), LG 3510A tuner, Sony KV-34HS510 tuner, MY-HD 120 HDTV tuner card, Sony 25" Trinitron standard tv, 13" Sony standard tv, JVC D-VHS VCR, Sony KLV S23A10, Panasonic VCR, JVC VCR, and Sony KDL-46XBR2 the XBR2 had the best tuner operation and the most sensitivity and best signal to noise of any of the above. The second best sensitivity is the MY-HD 120 tuner card. There are two cheapo splitters in the RG-6 lead-in. The amplifiers when inserted actually were much worse than any of the TV's, however, did not insert them at the antenna. The length of the lead-in is about 40 ft. I can receive 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4, 17.5, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 47.1, 49.1, 49.2, 49.3, 61.1. Also 3, 5, 8, 11 (sometimes), 13 (sometimes), 19, 23, 25, 29 (weak), 32 (weak), 35, 43, 49 (good), 53 (fair), 55, 61, 65 (good), 67 (good). The antenna is fixed aimed toward Cleveland.
JJK

DaMavs

12-07-06, 09:42 AM

I am going for the OTA approach and live in Kent. According to antennaweb I am 22 to 23 miles from the antenna farm for most of the Cleveland stations. Right now I can only get a digital signal from WNEO with my rabbit ears so I am going to the roof. I have been considering a Winegard CS2200 (amplified) just because its small and unobtrusive. My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees.
My setup is mildly similar - I've got taller trees near my antenna which made me wonder if I could get things to work. I'm only 18 miles from the antennas though and other than the trees have a good location as far as no taller hills intervening.

A Winegard Square Shooter w/pre-amp has worked for me and been relatively reliable (occasional drop-outs in extreme weather). Unfortunately you won't know for sure in your location until you set it up & see if it works. Couple nice things about the Square Shooter - it's easy to set up given it's size etc. plus it does do a good job w/multi-path problems which you may get due to the proximity of the trees.

If you do go with a Square Shooter, do experiment with the tilt etc. - I used to have occasional signal oscillations on 5.1 in certain weather, but after tilting it back further it cleared up nicely.

A bigger antenna may give you a stronger signal, but may have more multi-path issues as well. Hard to tell w/o setting 'em both up unfortunately.

Good luck - hopefully it works for you...Free HD is well worth the trouble.

Andrew K

12-07-06, 12:43 PM

Google "FCC-06-150A1.PDF"...

Thanks for the information!! This is the first I've seen of this. It gives the tentative HAAT and Power for all DTV stations in the USA after the transition. What I found interesting is that WJW plans to broadcast digitally on channel 8 at a decent 15.7 kW compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10. WKYC's plans are to go digitally on channel 17 at a whopping 1000 kW, and WEWS will boost their power up to 1000 kW. There are some improvements to look forward to if you use OTA. I'm wondering what some of the channels will call themselves after their channel number is changed. It would be stupid to say NewsChannel 5 or Channel 3 News if their channels are 15 and 17. The Canadians usually just use their call letters to identify their station. The new channel lineup for Akron/Canton/Cleveland/Youngstown will be...

8 WJW (15.7kW 305m - Parma)
10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m - Parma)
15 WEWS (1000kW 311m - Parma)
17 WKYC (1000kW 296m - Parma)
20 WFMJ (460kW 295m - Youngstown)
23 WVPX (317kW 296m - Akron)
26 WVIZ (100kW 313m - North Royalton)
28 WUAB (200kW 337m - Parma)
30 WBNX (1000kW 334m - Parma)
34 WQHS (525kW 334m - Parma)
36 WYTV (50kW 149m - Youngstown)
39 WDLI (200kW 292m - Akron)
41 WKBN (700kW 418m - Youngstown)
45 WNEO (388kW 223m - Salem)
47 WOAC (1000kW 134m - Brimfield)
50 WEAO (180kW 305m - Copley)

LP and CA applications include WRAP at 40 with 10kW, WCDN & WXOX both applied for 7 with 0.3kW and 0.5 kW respectively (WXOX will most likely not be granted that), W51BI at 51 with 8kW, W52DS applied for 32 and 38, W58AM at 44 with 1.5kW, and still no word on what The Cat 35/29 or WIVM 52 plan on doing.

PTXer

12-07-06, 12:45 PM

DaMavs,
Thanks for the comments. I am a little encouraged by the results you are getting. I have looked at the Square Shooter but have seen many comments that it is lousy in the VHF range. The Sensar III (GS2200) I have been looking at also has a preamp and is a little more omni directional so I was hoping I would be able to get both the Cleveland stations and the Akron stations without a rotor since they are 70deg apart for me. Plus the SS is double the cost of the Sensar. How high is your SS mounted and how high are the trees?

Thanks

akron05

12-07-06, 02:53 PM

I saw on another forum someone who has a large 8-bay UHF antenna (all the stations but one are UHF and the one VHF is a high-VHF), forget what area they are in, but they said:

6 stations at 330 degrees, 19 mi away, three stations at 45 degrees, 8 mi away, four stations around 175 degrees, 45 mi away

Two antennas in different directions - only two DT's come in, too much multipath
One antenna, no preamp, aimed at cluster of closer stations - get the 330 degree and 45 degree stations, can't even detect signal on others. Add preamp, detect but can't lock two of the four at 175 degrees, and others are blown out and "too strong" to pick up

the solution he had was to aim the antenna, WITH a preamp, at the 45 mile distant stations. The antenna picks up a small amount elsewhere, and being that they are close but off-center, the preamp amplifies it just enough to lock. Signal meters for the closer stations are similar to where the distant ones are and it works.

So, I'm thinking...if I aim a bit 8-bay UHF at youngstown with a preamp would there be enough residual reception off the sides and back that with the amplification I can still get Cleveland/Akron? Then I can still aim a VHF-only at Parma for WOIO and WKYC.

k2rj

12-07-06, 04:13 PM

compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10.
I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.

akron05

12-07-06, 04:23 PM

I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.

I still don't know why they couldn't go back to 19 then.

Michael P 2341

12-07-06, 05:01 PM

I believe that's because they have to protect channel 10 in London, Ontario.BINGO! Staying on channel 10 is one dumb move among many dumb moves WOIO has made.

Fortunately for some of us we can get our CBS from WKBN-DT, CBS-HD and dd5.1 on the air today! 700kw, 418m high tower and coverage from Cleveland to Pitsburgh!

I still don't know why they couldn't go back to 19 then.
Why? because they are owned by Raycom. They could go back to 19, they should go back to 19. Being on 19 would make OTA reception to all of the Cleveland stations a snap, as that way all the original major network stations would have been grouped together on the same part of the rf spectrum (read: optimized UHF antennas for the 14-21 range aimed squarley at Parma = perfect recption of ABC, NBC and CBS throughout the viewing area). The majority of viewers have not been watching TV OTA for so long that the stations count on cable to make up for their inefficiencies. the problem that is when the contracts come up for renewal sometimes cable looses the rights to a statioon for a while (rember the "FOX on COX" debacle several years ago?).

akron05

12-07-06, 06:01 PM

Michael, since you are so close to the Parma towers, does your Youngstown antenna still manage to pick up the Cleveland stations off the sides/back of the antenna?

Andrew K

12-07-06, 06:13 PM

BINGO! Staying on channel 10 is one dumb move among many dumb moves WOIO has made.

Fortunately for some of us we can get our CBS from WKBN-DT, CBS-HD and dd5.1 on the air today! 700kw, 418m high tower and coverage from Cleveland to Pitsburgh!

Why? because they are owned by Raycom. They could go back to 19, they should go back to 19. Being on 19 would make OTA reception to all of the Cleveland stations a snap, as that way all the original major network stations would have been grouped together on the same part of the rf spectrum (read: optimized UHF antennas for the 14-21 range aimed squarley at Parma = perfect recption of ABC, NBC and CBS throughout the viewing area). The majority of viewers have not been watching TV OTA for so long that the stations count on cable to make up for their inefficiencies. the problem that is when the contracts come up for renewal sometimes cable looses the rights to a statioon for a while (rember the "FOX on COX" debacle several years ago?).

I know that WOIO-DT 10 cannot increase power due to CFPL 10 in London Ontario. I've been around the lakeshore where I've found it a cinch to get that channel during almost normal atmospheric conditions. If WOIO can broadcast their analog at 3700kW now, then they should be able to afford a higher power bill of only an extra 10kW that would greatly improve their digital signal. So it's mainly an FCC issue, although WOIO should change their final channel position to 19. It looks like after the transition, the all Cleveland stations will be easy to get except for WOIO.

DBarros

12-07-06, 08:04 PM

Michael P 2341

12-07-06, 08:06 PM

Michael, since you are so close to the Parma towers, does your Youngstown antenna still manage to pick up the Cleveland stations off the sides/back of the antenna?
You would think so, but no. I use an A/B switch with a conglomeration of indoor antennas to get all my stations. What I really need is an A/B/C switch, the 3rd postion would be for the Akron stations.

The ironic thing is WJW-DT is only .8 of a mile and nearly a perfect 180 degrees from Youngstown. But I never could get a reliable lock on WJW when my outdoor "Youngstown" antenna is selected. What I do get on the Youngstwon antenna is WOIO and WKYC the 2 VHF signals, at nearly 90 degrees! The only other thing I get on the Youngstown antenna is WOAC from Canton (the transmitter for that station is actually in western Portage County).

Michael P 2341

12-07-06, 08:11 PM

RussTC3

12-07-06, 08:15 PM

What a pleasant and great surprise! Fox 8 is broadcasting the Cleveland/Pittsburgh game in HD!

Looks excellent too!

akron05

12-07-06, 09:15 PM

it is in HD for me....wow, 2 Browns games in HDTV in 5 days. That is a first.

IT looks great. Now if only the Browns could PLAY great...

Bismarck440

12-08-06, 02:42 AM

Hi all, refreshing to see I'm not the only one in Northeast Ohio without Cable, & finds TV Dx'ing a challege. :) I'm setting someone up for DTV so I finally had a chance to see one of these in operation OTA, great picture though some disappointments with blocking & freezing. I'm up in northern Lake county so, I don't have the luxury of the Akron PBS'es, & Erie iseems to beam to the East & south.

My problem, and question is this: I have a two story home so my antenna will be high, but in the Northwest direction, 20-30 feet from my house, I have very tall cherry trees, 10-15 feet taller than my house, then about 1/4 mile away a tall row of pine trees as tall as the cherry trees. This antenna is good for the distance range I am in, but I know the trees will hinder that. Will a bigger antenna help me or will the trees block out the signal to whatever antenna I put up there? Thanks for any advice

I am wondering on especially windy nights why would a signal be blowing around? I am helping someone get set up here, however this house is in a semi wooded area, the attic antenna provides the same signal drift on windy nights, however is not exposed to the wind.. perhaps the trees causing this?

15 to 20 years back at this same location the reception was perfect with pretty much the same amount of trees on both the attic & roof antenna, The other antenna is a 100 mile (aprox) vhf/uhf outdoor Terk rooftop mounted a story & a half up. I'm a few miles away with a rooftop antenna 2 stories up, a few less trees though still somewhat wooded & have excellent reception in analog, have yet to get a DTV but am considering it after the next price drop.

Are the trees causing this? or should I put a bit more height on the antenna? I'm still down below the ridge, so doubtful a few feet would make a difference.

Bismarck440

12-08-06, 03:03 AM

I know that WOIO-DT 10 cannot increase power due to CFPL 10 in London Ontario. I've been around the lakeshore where I've found it a cinch to get that channel during almost normal atmospheric conditions. If WOIO can broadcast their analog at 3700kW now, then they should be able to afford a higher power bill of only an extra 10kW that would greatly improve their digital signal. So it's mainly an FCC issue, although WOIO should change their final channel position to 19. It looks like after the transition, the all Cleveland stations will be easy to get except for WOIO.

I don't believe CFPL is using omnidirectional pattern, true I pick this one up on a good night, but even with a 90 mile VHF antenna, rotor & amp, I find this one very difficult even being 3 miles from the lake, with a straight north shot with no trees in that direction!

I used to find I had an equal chance of picking up a watchable WBNS with the Antenna SW towards Cleveland.

Don't blame the FCC for this issue! Raycom requested ch 10 as the final resting place of WOIO, knocking WBNS in Columbus off ch 10 even though WBNS was on that channel decades before WOIO even existed. So you see it's not only CFPL that WOIO has to protect with it's wimpy signal, but Columbus too (for now).

BTW: If WOIO were to put it's digital signal on ch 19 they would not need to use nearly the same amount of power their analog signal uses today. Digital signals are far more efficient. Look at WKBN-DT at a little over 700 kw their signal goes clear from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! (and they are transmitting out of a valley not off a high point).
So what power is WOIO 10 DT using now? & is CFPL remaining on 10 after the transition?

Shall I be looking towards Erie D16 (another tough nut to crack) for my CBS affiliate?

Inundated

12-08-06, 08:36 AM

PTXer

12-08-06, 09:21 AM

DaMavs

12-08-06, 10:25 AM

DaMavs,
Thanks for the comments. I am a little encouraged by the results you are getting. I have looked at the Square Shooter but have seen many comments that it is lousy in the VHF range.
Definitely not its strength - I only get NBC & CBS due to the pre-amp & have a friend in Willoughby who couldn't pull Ch. 3 with one and had to switch to a bigger antenna. Basically I decided to try the Square Shooter first as it was simple to mount plus I thought it being good for multipath was a plus in my location, but basically I was confident I could easily mount it and lo & behold it worked so I was done. When I do have "heavy weather" issues sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off with a bigger, more conventional antenna though, but I've never been inspired to experiment as what I have works well enough.

The Sensar III (GS2200) I have been looking at also has a preamp and is a little more omni directional so I was hoping I would be able to get both the Cleveland stations and the Akron stations without a rotor since they are 70deg apart for me. Plus the SS is double the cost of the Sensar. How high is your SS mounted and how high are the trees?
I have my Square Shooter pointed right at the Parma towers and I still get the Akron PBS station fairly well ~60 degrees off (~25 miles). If the Sensar III is more omnidirectional, you should be OK with a 70 degree spread I'd guess.

My Square Shooter is mounted on a 2nd story deck and the house sits on a fairly steep hill to that side so I'm likely ~25' off the foundation & closer to 40' off the base of the nearest trees. There are lots of trees around at least 10 to 20' higher than the antenna position (and some higher, but I miss the biggest). I did position it so it's shooting through as much of a gap as possible & missing the nearest trees which I'm guessing helped.

Unfortunately there are tons of variables with ATSC OTA, but I will say my reception has been better of late if anything - in part I'm presuming that's because the stations are far more reliable now than a year or two ago more than my setup aging well. But the sensitivity of your ATSC tuner will be another big variable in your setup - we have 3 different tuners hooked up to the antenna & one (the oldest TV) tuner is far worse than the others.

lefkas

12-08-06, 10:55 AM

IT looks great. Now if only the Browns could PLAY great...

I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.

snagy

12-08-06, 11:06 AM

on my OTA, it was not in HD. Signal was only decoded in 720 resolution.

When the Browns get good, maybe more might be in HD

Wait till next year!

akron05

12-08-06, 11:22 AM

Looked HD to me.

akron05

12-08-06, 11:23 AM

Ah, yes...I've been saying "wait till next year" since about 1992...

snagy

12-08-06, 11:29 AM

i feed my OTA thru my Directv H20, both the guide and my TV did not decode it as 1080i for me at least.

My loss.

Bismarck440

12-08-06, 11:40 AM

Two quick points:

There is no "transition" right now in Canada. The Canadian DTV situation is somewhat different than the situation here...right now, only the country's very largest markets even HAVE DTV outlets (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver). Think "U.S. three or four years ago".

So, CFPL isn't going away from 10 at any time in the near future.

So I take it no Feb 17, 2009 deadline in Canada? My bad I thought it was all of north ameica, forgot Canada plays by different rules, just check out some of their late night programming ;) May not have to toss out the Analog set's just yet.

Erie's another problem. It really is. None of the four network affiliates there is running anything more than lightbulb power. I have no idea how they've been able to do it (waivers?). The stations are all owned by either incredibly cheap companies or companies that have actively pleaded that they can't afford to do the upgrades until much later.

So, as a result, their DTV signals are hard to pick up even...well, in Erie! Hit the Erie local reception thread here for much, much more...for a blog by one of the regulars there which has much more detail...

TY I wll, As I said Erie's another tough nut for as close as I am to their farm that I'
m assuming is just east of the US19/I-90 interchange, I'm about 60-65 miles with a rotor, 100 mile antenna & amp, no problem, right??? wrong! Strangely once upon a time was able to pull the PBS Affiliate out of Jamestown NY in with the smaller attic antenna, on 17, rare for UHF.

Notice many of you are pulling in Y-Town, another I cannot get, I have better luck From Detroit.

hookbill

12-08-06, 11:49 AM

I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.

This is just hillarious! I don't know how old you are but I'll bet you don't know that Bryant Gumbel started out as a sports broadcaster, I don't remember which network. I was surprised when he went from sports to the news and the Today show.

I didn't watch last night but as I recall Bryant Gumbel was an excellent sports broadcaster.

Bismarck440

12-08-06, 12:08 PM

TV stations serving all markets in the United States are airing digital television programming today, although most will continue to provide analog programming through February 17, 2009. At that point, full-power TV stations will cease broadcasting on their current analog channels, and the spectrum they use for analog broadcasting will be reclaimed and put to other uses.

Current spectrum? I only heard of the UHF band losing channels 59-69, (obviously to cell phones) at a later date... we are talking about the same analog & DTV spectrum here?

Converting to DTV also will free up parts of the scarce and valuable broadcast spectrum. Those portions of the spectrum can then be used for other important services, such as public and safety services (police and fire departments, emergency rescue), and advanced wireless services.

Seems that the lower portion of the VHF band will be sparcely used & ripe for the picking now.

terryfoster

12-08-06, 12:18 PM

on my OTA, it was not in HD. Signal was only decoded in 720 resolution.

So you DID NOT see the little "HD" in the top left corner as a part of the score board? If you did see this, then it was probably in HD. If you did not see this it was stretched SD. I'm asking because living in Cincinnati I didn't see the broadcast from your affiliate (actually I didn't see it at all).

Andrew K

12-08-06, 12:58 PM

Don't blame the FCC for this issue! Raycom requested ch 10 as the final resting place of WOIO, knocking WBNS in Columbus off ch 10 even though WBNS was on that channel decades before WOIO even existed. So you see it's not only CFPL that WOIO has to protect with it's wimpy signal, but Columbus too (for now).

BTW: If WOIO were to put it's digital signal on ch 19 they would not need to use nearly the same amount of power their analog signal uses today. Digital signals are far more efficient. Look at WKBN-DT at a little over 700 kw their signal goes clear from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! (and they are transmitting out of a valley not off a high point).

According to the FCC's website, WOIO's digital signal reaches as far as Alliance, Canton, Wooster, Warren, Massillon, Norwalk, and Mentor. I honestly believe that anyone living in these areas would have a difficult time receiving a reliable picture as we've all been complaining about reception in the Cleveland/Akron metro area. If WOIO was smart, they would've chosen 19 for their final resting place since their would be no other digitals broadcasting on 19 for hundreds of miles from Cleveland. I only wish I could receive WKBN-DT, but I've tried everything possible with no luck. I don't want to be pessimistic here, because we have a lot to look forward to compared to other DMAs. It looks like all other stations will have at least a decent power level and HAAT. I'm looking forward to the time when WBNX-DT signs on with their 1000kW of power that is aimed my way, and when WKYC-DT makes the switch to channel 17 at 1000kW.

lefkas

12-08-06, 02:07 PM

This is just hillarious! I don't know how old you are but I'll bet you don't know that Bryant Gumbel started out as a sports broadcaster, I don't remember which network. I was surprised when he went from sports to the news and the Today show.

I didn't watch last night but as I recall Bryant Gumbel was an excellent sports broadcaster.

I actually am old enough to remember Bryant Gumbel pairing with Jack Buck as the hosts of the pre-game show for NBC's old Saturday afternoon baseball broadcasts with Curt Gowdy and Tony Kubek. He was a good interviewer. Don't know what happened, but he sucks as a football play-by-play guy. Probably needs to take a few lessons from his older brother, Greg.

HD MM

12-08-06, 03:30 PM

I watched the game via OTA signal on Fox 8. Picture didn't look quite as good as normal weekend Fox or CBS NFL HD broadcasts. Not sure why. Only thing worse than Browns performance was having to listen to Byant Gumbel and Chris Collingsworth. They may be the worst broadcasting combo since Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant. Gumbel should stick to news. He was simply dreadful.

I agree with you 110% That duo was pathetic last night! If only there wasn't a delay in broadcasts from the radio and the satellite feed I would've opted for the local radio play by play. The NFL Network settled on the wrong Gumbel and Collinsworth is a media whore. He's everywhere: HBO, NBC, FOX and now NFL Network!? Not to mention we had to put-up with Deion at halftime! Arrrgggg. Lousy coverage!

SKoprowski

12-08-06, 03:59 PM

That was the first time I saw a NFL Network broadcast- WOW was that pathetic!! I don't understand how the NFL could allow such amateurish production of the the whole broadcast. I've seen better production on MAC football games on ESPN during the week.

akron05

12-08-06, 04:18 PM

According to the FCC's website, WOIO's digital signal reaches as far as Alliance, Canton, Wooster, Warren, Massillon, Norwalk, and Mentor. I honestly believe that anyone living in these areas would have a difficult time receiving a reliable picture as we've all been complaining about reception in the Cleveland/Akron metro area. If WOIO was smart, they would've chosen 19 for their final resting place since their would be no other digitals broadcasting on 19 for hundreds of miles from Cleveland. I only wish I could receive WKBN-DT, but I've tried everything possible with no luck. I don't want to be pessimistic here, because we have a lot to look forward to compared to other DMAs. It looks like all other stations will have at least a decent power level and HAAT. I'm looking forward to the time when WBNX-DT signs on with their 1000kW of power that is aimed my way, and when WKYC-DT makes the switch to channel 17 at 1000kW.

I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.

JJkizak

12-08-06, 05:29 PM

Gumbel was terrible. Collinsworth was OK. The only Cleveland Brown that impressed me was the quarterback. "Romeo, where art thow" and the receiver whose name starts with "N" for "Not For Long".

JJK

flatiron

12-08-06, 06:57 PM

I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.

I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?

Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.

Cathode Kid

12-08-06, 09:18 PM

What about my cable cards? Does it matter that they are changing Passport to SARA on the SA 8300 to me?

All starts in June!

Cablecards get their firmware pushed to them from the headend. If they switch, they can simply push the new firmware into the cards for an instant personality transplant.

TheBlackKnight

12-08-06, 10:46 PM

I wonder if Raycom just wanted WOIO on 10 to be cheap and save on their electric bill.

BINGO!
This is Raycom afterall! :D There is no way that their engineers would have agreed that this was the best way to serve their viewing area. The beancounters made this decision.

Everytime there is a tropo event from the north, I have trouble pulling in WOIO-DT because of CFPL in London, Ont. This was a real problem during Thanksgiving weekend.

Inundated

12-08-06, 11:24 PM

So I take it no Feb 17, 2009 deadline in Canada? My bad I thought it was all of north ameica, forgot Canada plays by different rules, just check out some of their late night programming ;) May not have to toss out the Analog set's just yet.

Here's an excellent thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=763441) in the HDTV Programming area about the Canadian transition...which hasn't even been "sketched out" officially yet. It looks like they're talking about not even converting all the analog transmitters in far off areas... a problem they have even more than we do.

Notice many of you are pulling in Y-Town, another I cannot get, I have better luck From Detroit.

You're probably too far north to get WKBN-DT, even. Folks a little farther south than you should get it just fine with a decent antenna. I get it here in Akron (northwest side) with an amplified antenna pointed just the right direction out the back window towards the southeast...

Bismarck440

12-09-06, 02:02 AM

in the HDTV Programming area about the Canadian transition...which hasn't even been "sketched out" officially yet. It looks like they're talking about not even converting all the analog transmitters in far off areas... a problem they have even more than we do..

Interesting that only 10% of Canada relies on OTA, I wonder what the numbers are in the US?

You're probably too far north to get WKBN-DT, even. Folks a little farther south than you should get it just fine with a decent antenna. I get it here in Akron (northwest side) with an amplified antenna pointed just the right direction out the back window towards the southeast...

I'd never pull Y-Town Analog or DTV, I'm below the ridge in northern Lake County, I really can't pull in the Cleveland LP's either except for 32, & the Akron PBS'es are an impossibility too.

Bismarck440

12-09-06, 02:06 AM

I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?

Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.

I'm now wondering if the installation of the noise barrier on Route 2 wil somehow further limit my reception from Cleveland :( :confused: I still refuse to get Cable.

cemkf3

12-09-06, 12:51 PM

hookbill

12-09-06, 01:21 PM

I just saw some 4:3 programing on WKYC-DT that was not stretched for widescreen. It was Veggie Tales at 10:30 this morning. Has WKYC finally realized that 4:3 programing stretched to 16:9 doesn't look good or did they just forget to stretch it this morning? Let's hope it is the former and not the latter.

Hey now that you mention it I saw that too. It was right after the news. It didn't dawn upon me until I read what you just wrote. Your right, it wasn't stretched.

Inundated

12-09-06, 02:17 PM

I've seen some non-stretched stuff on WKYC, too, in the past couple of days...

I hope it continues! If I ever feel the need to stretch, my cable box does it...

HDTD

12-10-06, 12:51 AM

hi,

I am new to this forum. I live in Solon and am trying to pick up WKYC in Hi-Def. I am using an indoor Radio Shack hi def antenna. Unfortunately all I can get is a fuzzy ghosted image on channel 3. Fox 8 comes in the best and the Pats game is absolutely amazing looking. I need some help trying to figure out if I can mount an antenna on my roof to pick up channel 3 or if it is a waste of my time. If anyone has had success in Solon please let me know!

I may forget this whole ordeal and get DirecTV's hi def package, I have reg directv right now but my wife is going to kill me if I switch her Tivo-enabled dvr on her. Plus I have read horror stories about the new DTV HD DVRs.

I tried very hard getting WKYC DT many times in Solon, finally I had to give up and move. I was up near Harper Ridge too, tallest point in Cuyahoga County and I still had issue getting WKYC.

Of course now that we hear WKYC is weaning themselves off Stretch-O-Vision it's probably worthwhile to go through the hoops to get their over the air signal.

JJkizak

12-10-06, 08:48 AM

I have never had any problem getting WKYC from day one. The signal seems as steady as always and the HD is wonderfull. They were transmitting the correct SD for a couple days then yesterday switched back to stretched SD. They probably had another engineer who didn't know that people were supposed to look short and fat.
JJK

Inundated

12-10-06, 10:18 AM

I also noticed that Stretch-O-Vision was back on WKYC yesterday. And I had such high hopes!

hookbill

12-10-06, 10:51 AM

I also noticed that Stretch-O-Vision was back on WKYC yesterday. And I had such high hopes!

Well this morning "Meet The Press" which is in stretch o vision each week is not. So don't give up hope! :)

Inundated

12-10-06, 11:20 AM

Well this morning "Meet The Press" which is in stretch o vision each week is not. So don't give up hope! :)

I think WKYC is generally pretty hands off with network SD programming, at least from what I've seen. The syndicated stuff and local non-HD programming and commercials (even during network SD) they've always stretched.

I just got my hopes up when I saw some of that not stretched the other day.

Sigh.

:D

hookbill

12-10-06, 12:17 PM

I think WKYC is generally pretty hands off with network SD programming, at least from what I've seen. The syndicated stuff and local non-HD programming and commercials (even during network SD) they've always stretched.

I just got my hopes up when I saw some of that not stretched the other day.

Sigh.

:D

I know what your saying but I guarantee Meet The Press is stretched. It always follows their Sunday Morning news which is in HD and I notice it big time. It had borders today, looked good.

ZManCartFan

12-10-06, 12:42 PM

Anybody else with Armstrong in Medina not get guide data for quite a few channels including NFL, PBS HD, WealthHD, STO, and others? Since the day it was installed it has always just shown "not available" or something similar for me.

Inundated

12-10-06, 01:22 PM

This may be a red letter day for Northeast Ohio sports fans with HD.

Every single NFL game available to this area this weekend is in HD.

Starting with Browns/Steelers on Thursday (with even WJW carrying the local feed in HD), all three games on CBS and FOX today, the NBC game tonight, and of course the ESPN game on Monday, are all in HD.

This would be accomplished, one presumes, because WOIO apparently swapped the plan to carry the SD game between the Bengals and Raiders in favor of carrying the Ravens and Chiefs (which is in HD, and on now).

I'm having a fun time flipping back and forth between WOIO and WJW and comparing HD PQ. From this end, even with my new 720p LCD set, the CBS game is the clear winner. It's not even close!

Pucky

12-10-06, 10:05 PM

Cablecards get their firmware pushed to them from the headend. If they switch, they can simply push the new firmware into the cards for an instant personality transplant.

Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.

Cathode Kid

12-10-06, 10:30 PM

Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.

I don't know what they're running in Columbus, but you might be seeing the difference between SARA and Passport firmware. There are also different flavors of third-party middleware available to the MSOs for running services like VOD, so it's possible that two different systems running the same manufacturer's firmware could be running different middleware for various services. This could result in a different look.

burgher

12-11-06, 06:45 AM

For anyone's info- Direct TVs spot beam local for 19.1 is STILL substandard. The Ravens/Chiefs brdcst was jittery and had what I can only describe as a "mask of graininess" over the entire broadcast. From bad to worse when motion would increase. This poor quality issue was totally cleared up with the Saints/Cowboys on 3.1. I know this subject has been dealt with on the board before but, just observing the way 19 has dragged its feet on the whole HD thing the past few years, you gotta wonder if they're giving D*TV junk to process.
Thank God for OTA. I'd be going crazy if I HAD to look at D*TV's local for CBS games.
Also, wanting to watch the boob show that is The Ghost Whisperer on CBS ( I think Friday night) did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??

terryfoster

12-11-06, 06:53 AM

... did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??

It was remastered in HD last year and it looked really good. The good news is they kept the OAR by leaving it in 4:3 and not stretching it or processing it in any way to fill at 16:9 screen.

hookbill

12-11-06, 07:13 AM

Just curious, is the new software what the SA8300HD has on Time Warner in Columbus? The interface, graphics, and some features were way nicer than the 1987 graphics on the 8300 in Cleveland. Looked real nice. They have a very nice on demand interface also, and channels like Universal HD and some others. But no ESPN2HD, or 2 network affiliates either (I think Fox and ABC). Oh well, you can't have it all apparently.

I don't think you will see anymore updates on the SA 8300 until June, but if your curious as to what you have go here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859). This will give you information on how to access the diagnostic screen on the SA 8300. You can see what version of SARA your currently running.

Rumor has it you will be running Passport software in June, that's why I don't think you'll see anymore updates.

akron05

12-11-06, 09:36 AM

I wonder how they expect to get their puny signal to all the cable headends in the outlying areas (or not-so-outlying areas like Lake County) after 2009? Don't most cable systems pick up the DT signal OTA?

Pretty dumb to lose so much coverage just to save a few bucks on the electric bill.

I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.

But here's my other question-after analog shutoff, will they still remap as Channel 19 or will they become known as Channel 10?

hookbill

12-11-06, 12:36 PM

I apologize in advance if this has been mentioned, but WNOW, 719 is now available on Time Warner Cable. Looked like the audio was really out of synche. And PQ was bad, at least until I unstretched it. Then it didn't look to bad.

Andrew K

12-11-06, 12:49 PM

I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.

But here's my other question-after analog shutoff, will they still remap as Channel 19 or will they become known as Channel 10?

Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?

Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.

hookbill

12-11-06, 01:06 PM

Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?

Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.

I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?

Andrew K

12-11-06, 01:12 PM

I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?

If that's the case then WOIO wouldn't have to worry about the far reaches of its viewing area. Just like what someone else mentioned here, they would just rely on the cable and satellite companies to make up for what their OTA signal lacks. I don't honestly think that an area like Dover/New Philadelphia could rely on an OTA signal that far away to rebroadcast through cable/satellite. It would be too fuzzy.

hookbill

12-11-06, 01:29 PM

If that's the case then WOIO wouldn't have to worry about the far reaches of its viewing area. Just like what someone else mentioned here, they would just rely on the cable and satellite companies to make up for what their OTA signal lacks. I don't honestly think that an area like Dover/New Philadelphia could rely on an OTA signal that far away to rebroadcast through cable/satellite. It would be too fuzzy.

Here's my understanding. Radio signals are sent through the air and bounce of the ionosphere. Television on the other hand goes straight into space, no bouncing. Plus part of the problem with any OTA broadcast is all the interference today. With all the other signals, microwave, wireless phones, etc. it just makes it hard to pick up anything OTA unless you live close to the broadcaster.

So I think head ends that are further away then downtown Cleveland get the signal bounced off a satellite.

Andrew K

12-11-06, 01:36 PM

Here's my understanding. Radio signals are sent through the air and bounce of the ionosphere. Television on the other hand goes straight into space, no bouncing. Plus part of the problem with any OTA broadcast is all the interference today. With all the other signals, microwave, wireless phones, etc. it just makes it hard to pick up anything OTA unless you live close to the broadcaster.

So I think head ends that are further away then downtown Cleveland get the signal bounced off a satellite.

That is true. TV and FM signals don't bounce off the ionosphere except in rare, very rare, atmospheric conditions. A huge antenna in the far reaches of Cleveland wouldn't do any good if it's way below the Cleveland horizon line... the same way that I couldn't get any NYC OTAs no matter how big an antenna I used here in Akron. That is why I'm thinking that areas like Dover/New Philadelphia use satelittes to receive their locals with such a crisp picture and no fuzz.

Bismarck440

12-11-06, 02:15 PM

I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?
But only for a monthly fee now of course.

akron05

12-11-06, 02:19 PM

Do cable companies in rural areas get their local affiliates through antennas?

Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.

I don't know about nowadays, but in the 80s they did.

Warner Amex Cable in Canton back in the early 80s padded the local channel offering with anything they could pick up with a huge antenna...so they had, among others:

WTRF Wheeling
WTOV Steubenville
All Cleveland channels
All Youngstown channels

akron05

12-11-06, 02:20 PM

Bismarck440

12-11-06, 02:22 PM

Are the locals going to remap their channels after the transition? That is stupid in my opinion, especially if they don't have anything to do with that channel anymore.

I was going to ask this myself without going through 241 pages of threads....

ie: 19 will eventually only be using the frequencies alloted for channel 10, & not every channel 19 is going to channel 10, plus the channel numberes corespond with the frequencies logicaly, so I would assume after the switch they should be called CBS Channel 10? ... WEWS will be known as TV 15 & so forth.. oooh they will have to change their logos & news sets, my bad.

Correct or am in not thinking like a cable operator?

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:05 PM

did anyone catch the "newly re-mastered in HD Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer"??? Trust me, I did not tune in just for this but got caught viewing the beginning. Since when does "newly re-mastered in HD" equate to 4X3 with black sidebars ??? Was someone at 19 asleep at the switch again ??
No - as already mentioned they kept the original 4X3 aspect ratio. Did you nothice the "CBS Eye" in the lower right hand corner (half over the pictire hals in the sidebar)? That is your clue that the 4X3 image was coming that way from the network. You can still be HD with a 4X3 aspect ratio. They did the film transfer in HD.

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:07 PM

I tried very hard getting WKYC DT many times in Solon, finally I had to give up and move. I was up near Harper Ridge too, tallest point in Cuyahoga County and I still had issue getting WKYC.

Of course now that we hear WKYC is weaning themselves off Stretch-O-Vision it's probably worthwhile to go through the hoops to get their over the air signal.Where is "Harper Ridge"?
If it's in Broadview Heights then you are indeed at the highest point in Cuyahoga County. If OTOH it's onthe east side then you are not at the true high point of the County.

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:10 PM

I was going to ask this myself without going through 241 pages of threads....

ie: 19 will eventually only be using the frequencies alloted for channel 10, & not every channel 19 is going to channel 10, plus the channel numberes corespond with the frequencies logicaly, so I would assume after the switch they should be called CBS Channel 10? ... WEWS will be known as TV 15 & so forth.. oooh they will have to change their logos & news sets, my bad.

Correct or am in not thinking like a cable operator?ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:13 PM

I'd bet they at least did so in the past.

Did people in Dover just not watch TV until cable came around??Actually I had a small TV just outside the Dover area (Leesville Lake) and got ABC from Pittsburgh, NBC and CBS from Steubenville and Wheeling (forgot which network came from which city). Anyway they got all their OTA TV from stations in 3 different states!

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:28 PM

I'm not certain but it seems to me that they would get it via satellite feed. Remember those big huge things people use to have in their yards?
Those big dishes never had the Cleveland local stations - only stations from "Prime Time 24" and "The Denver 5". E* just got slapped by an injunction for selling out-of-market stations to non qualifying viewers.

While the locals are carried by both D* and E*, it's for their subscribers, not for cable systems. A few very small cable systems tried to buy local stations from E* and got shut off once they were exposed as rebroadcasting the E* feed unlawfully.

I met a techie from Dover who told me the cable systems got the Cleveland locals via a terrestrial microwave link from Richfield where a set of OTA antennas picked-up the signals (Richfield is the highest point in the region - even higher thatn anywhere in Cuyahoga County - that's how Summit Conty got it's name).

akron05

12-11-06, 03:29 PM

Actually I had a small TV just outside the Dover area (Leesville Lake) and got ABC from Pittsburgh, NBC and CBS from Steubenville and Wheeling (forgot which network came from which city). Anyway they got all their OTA TV from stations in 3 different states!

Steubenville - NBC WTOV Channel 9
Wheeling - CBS WTRF Channel 7

Was this a rooftop antenna?

And how did they end up in the Cleveland DMA then?

Michael P 2341

12-11-06, 03:39 PM

I'd never pull Y-Town Analog or DTV, I'm below the ridge in northern Lake County, I really can't pull in the Cleveland LP's either except for 32, & the Akron PBS'es are an impossibility too. See the coverage map for WKBN-DT http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html, the signal reaches out over Lake Erie from Downtown Cleveland eastward! Sure there is a ridge to overcome, but with a tall enough tower WKBN-DT would be 24/7 for you in Lake County. I get it 24/7 here in Parma.

akron05

12-11-06, 03:48 PM

Would a few currently bare trees block me from getting WKBN in east Akron?? Antennaweb says I should get it, but I can't. My old house I could.

Andrew K

12-11-06, 04:34 PM

terryfoster

12-11-06, 05:11 PM

You can still be HD with a 4X3 aspect ratio.
That's not entirely true. HDTV requires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC) a 16:9 aspect ratio, but says nothing about pillarboxing or letterboxing. So in this case they took a 4:3 film and transferred it to HD and kept the OAR with pillarboxing.

SD upconverts during the day on local affiliates are technically transmitted in HD since you'll find them in the affiliates' standard format (1080i/720p). Though the quality of true HD sources should be apparent.

I should have said before that they did add pillarboxing to Rudolph to make it fill a 16:9 frame.

hookbill

12-11-06, 07:03 PM

I should have said before that they did add pillarboxing to Rudolph to make it fill a 16:9 frame.

I was going to argue that point but when he pointed out where the CBS eye was I figured it out.

JJkizak

12-11-06, 07:37 PM

Gee, another variation to confuse the consumer. 16 x 9 HD in 4 x 3 with black bars. This is a perfect scenerio for Bud Abbot & Lew Costello----"Whose on first"

JJK

Bismarck440

12-11-06, 07:50 PM

See the coverage map for WKBN-DT http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html, the signal reaches out over Lake Erie from Downtown Cleveland eastward! Sure there is a ridge to overcome, but with a tall enough tower WKBN-DT would be 24/7 for you in Lake County. I get it 24/7 here in Parma.

TY for the link, might prove useful, though i don't know if these maps hold water, I'm below the Ridge in central Lake county, which our reception (north of Rt 84) is diminished. Ch 41?? I'll have to look into it.

The Map for NTSC 27 also puts Southern Lake & all of Geauga County in the viewing area, I could not pull this in from Chardon either.

Bismarck440

12-11-06, 07:56 PM

ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.

I can see the ATSC tuner I was setting up knows 28 is the digital Equivilant for 43, this type of thinking though renders channel numbers useless. I can see this happening now till we get used to the evident change, but would think stations like 43 as example would call themselves 28 in the end.

Sounds just like the corporation coordinating the Area code changes with muti splits & overlays! :D

Cathode Kid

12-11-06, 08:06 PM

I'm wondering how cable headends in places like Mansfield and New Philly/Dover will be getting their signal.

Large operators that have a presence in smaller towns will often pipe them in via fiber. No line-of-sight needed. :)

Bismarck440

12-12-06, 04:09 AM

ASTC uses something called virtural channel numbers. WEWS will probablly always be known as ch 5 even though they are acrually using rf ch 15. There is a plan to put some nationally available networks (such as Spanish, religious and shopping channels) on the same virtural channel number nationwide. This could someday also affect the big 4 networks. Then and only then would WEWS dump ch 5 for whatever virtural channel ABC uses.

Re Reading this would make sense, however you still need a number to punch in, to get to Digital 5 you still need to punch in 15... only makes sence for 5 to call themselves 15... so the V Channel you would punch in,,, ie if ABC was still on 15 here, & ABC's nationwide virtual channel was 4, punching in 04 would take you to channel 15 transparently??