Hey guys I have a non-HD related question for you that hopefully someone can help out with.

Do any of you have dish network, with the Multi-sport package that allows you to get every fox sports network throughout the USA? The Indians had a problem with Fox Sports Ohio and dish last year, where they only showed 75 games, this year, all 150 will be shown. I was thinking about just getting the Multi-Sport package from dish, but was curious if you got other Professional sports from other cities on the other regional networks. Like if you got the Reds on Fox Sports Cincinnati. Or are these games blacked out?



Umm, to keep this thread on HD topic: Channel 3 multicasting sucks! Hows that?

I'm new to the whole HD thing. I just bought a Mitsu HDTV and am trying to decide on the next step. I guess that means I have questions. I'm a TWC customer, so that means locally I get 3, 5, and 8. (btw, I like the multicast simply because the non-HD digital channel 3 looked better than analog thanks to TWC.) I guess I don't know what I'm missing having never seen HD. I'm wondering what the locals broadcast in when they are not broadcasting a HD program. Is it simply a digital signal at the same resolution as analog (420i?)? Is it somewhere between 420i and 1080i? In other words, am I getting a better resolution even if it is not HD?

Thanks...

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Like if you got the Reds on Fox Sports Cincinnati. Or are these games blacked out?

Umm, to keep this thread on HD topic: Channel 3 multicasting sucks! Hows that?

Mike,

I have Direct instead of Dish, but I do have the Sports Pack which sounds exactly the same. I can tell you that out of market games are always blacked out on Direct. But that might be because of the multitude of additional league packages you can get (MLB, NHL, MLS, etc.) Does Dish carry the same type of league packages? If so, I'm sure the out of market games would most likely be blacked out.

I was, however, pleasantly surprised to find that we're in both the Columbus Blue Jackets' market and the Pittsburgh Penguins'. The Pens games are not blacked out on Direct. I couldn't tell you if the Pirates' games are the same way, though. Not much of a baseball fan.

Go Jackets!

By the way, I slightly disagree with the multicasting thing. I like the radar. <ducking the rotten eggs>

ZMAN - with this new direct tv deal that will show a cbs HD feed... will we be able to get it??

Has NBC been having problems. I try to watch leno and i cant. It just keeps messing up. I have comcast. HBOHD works fine INHD1 and INHD2 works fine. ESPNHD works fine and FOXHD if it even is works fine. Why is it always nbc messing up. Oh yeah i live in mentor, and i was wondering if on the 15th comcast is giving us more hd channels.

Regarding new D* CBS HD deal. We aren't in an owned and operated market. I don't think we will be able to get CBS via D*.

oachalon,

If you go back to page 25 of this thread...I had the same problem with NBC at the start of the week. I was using OTA and Adelphia cable and the video drops were awful.

As far as the new deals that D* has signed in the past few days. If you want CBS-HD via D*, you must request a waiver from the station. As rlb stated, our local CBS is not an O & O. However, our local Fox station is an O & O, thus we should be able to get the Fox-EDTV channel when it goes up. And lets not forget the Fox goes HD in 2004.

Originally posted by oachalon
Has NBC been having problems. I try to watch leno and i cant. It just keeps messing up. I have comcast. HBOHD works fine INHD1 and INHD2 works fine. ESPNHD works fine and FOXHD if it even is works fine. Why is it always nbc messing up. Oh yeah i live in mentor, and i was wondering if on the 15th comcast is giving us more hd channels.

Comcast CH32 lists the channel lineup. It looks like we might be getting ABC 5.1 added but still no CBS......

I haven't seen this mentioned in awhile. Does anyone know what is going on with WVIZ (PBS)? They were supposed to be up last year, but I haven't heard any new info yet.

Originally posted by Shark73

However, our local Fox station is an O & O, thus we should be able to get the Fox-EDTV channel when it goes up. And lets not forget the Fox goes HD in 2004.

I didn't realize that our Fox station was O&O. That's good news! Although Fox is probably the strongest digital station I get OTA here in Medina. Will we have to do anything since it's an O&O, or will the station just come in automatically?

What about NBC? I'm assuming it's an affiliate, but just in case someday Direct decides to pick up an NBC HD feed, would we stand a chance? Are they O&O?

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
I didn't realize that our Fox station was O&O. That's good news! Although Fox is probably the strongest digital station I get OTA here in Medina. Will we have to do anything since it's an O&O, or will the station just come in automatically?

What about NBC? I'm assuming it's an affiliate, but just in case someday Direct decides to pick up an NBC HD feed, would we stand a chance? Are they O&O?


If you pay for the locals through D*, you will get the Fox EDTV channel for free. If you don't sub to the locals you will not get the Fox EDTV channel.

Not sure if NBC is O&O or not. Will need to look into that after lunch.

WKYC has been owned by Gannett (As in USA today.)

WVIZ last reported here that they continue to have 'tower' problems; and so they were looking at having cable companies carry their HD feed, even before they could broadcast it themselves.

how does the waiver thing work??? what are our chances? im able to get fox and cbs via my ANTENNA but cant get cbs or nbc at all... im in munroe falls now

I spoke with someone at WOIO and the chance of any of us getting a waiver from WOIO is very slim. They determine waivers by the DMA information for your address, no exceptions from what I was told.

titantv.com lists the WVIZ live date as May 9, 2004.

Steve

on channel 32 comcast shows cbs(hd) on the updated channel listing. Maybe we are getting cbs. Also am i going to actually get cinemax hd. I already get hbo hd and since i have hbo and cinemax im waiting for cinemax hd.

What channel on the listing on CH32 do you see CBS on? All I see on the listing for local HD is ABC, NBC, and FOX.

wow i messed up i swear i thought i saw cbs in there. Dont know what i was looking at. Sorry

If only we could get CBSHD on Comcast........

Someday....


Actually, I don't see ABC on my channel 32 listing for 1/15/04. They show NBC and Fox at the end of the list, that's it.

Rob

Originally posted by SteveC
titantv.com lists the WVIZ live date as May 9, 2004.

Unfortunately, that date is meaningless - titantv all last year had WVIZ-DT listed to go live Nov 2003 and it did not happen. When I bitched to WVIZ about that, the engineering person said they were having problems and they were looking into cableco's carrying it before the OTA xmitter was ready (like Stan said)

-- Paul

i see abc hd on channel 32. It tells me its gonna be channel 210.

Hey guys, I really need some info here on this. For the last two weeks, WOIO has been terrible for me. It is not coming in as normal Dolby Surround sound. Both nights of CSI last week had audio problems & it seemed like all 5 of my speakers had the same sound coming out of them. Every other channel was fine & was either Surround or DD. Today's football game is the same...no surround sound & it appears to be the same tinny sound coming from each speaker. I haven't changed anything that I can think of in my Yamaha RXV-1200 & every single other channel / DVD is perfectly fine.

Is anyone else having this problem? If not, what do you guys think the problem might be?? Using Dish 811.

-Todd

The football game yesterday and saturday night were money for me on CBS. I was actually surprised that they have managed to dish out 3 solid HD football performances in a row on woio. They dont have DD surround, just stereo so I use pro logic 2 for my sound format. Its got to be your gear, but Im not sure why it would sound like that. All 7 of my speakers have sound coming from them in PLII, but its of course different sound.

OK, I figured out the problem (but can't fix it). I called Dish Network & it turns out that they had a software glitch with the 811 receiver where it was sending only the left channel as both the right & the left channel audio for a bunch of OTA digital locals. They put in a software fix about a week ago to fix the issue. This fixed the problem for about 90% of the stations, but as is our luck, one of the stations that still has the issue is WOIO Cleveland. The tech support guy said they are working on another software fix for this but didn't know when it would be released. I figured the 811 would have some bugs but that is strange in that it's only one channel. I wonder why WOIO is sending audio that is different than the other stations?

On the plus side, tonight I had the sound coming from my Adelphia digital cable box for CBS WOIO & it was actually in sync with the OTA DTV WOIO, so I was able to watch CSI-Miami in HD & have the surround sound! HA! Usually it's not in sync with the analog but it was tonight. I hope it continues to be so that I can use this work around until Dish fixes the software.

-Todd

Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis
Chuck will start off in Cleveland where he will work his magic on at least 7 displays. He will start on the 13th of January, and stay in Cleveland until the 16th of January.
So, any reports from the ISF Tour? How is it going?

Chuck was wonderful! I am very pleased with his work, and I plan on having him out again in the future.

He arrived early and was pleasant as always. After we caught up, he went right to work on my Mits(that was previously calibrated by him 2 years ago). He re-calibrated the display on all formats and took off the glare screen (he finally talked me into it). I am amazed at what an improvement his touch ups made, and my sister came down and noticed a difference (that’s saying a lot :)).

The improvement in the Mits was worth the price alone, but after he finished the mits, I fired up the DWIN TV3. When he first came down, he noted that the picture was WAY to blue. Boy was he right! What was supposed to be 6500K out of the factory was more like 10,000K! He sat down and went to town on the projector. He set everything to around 6500K, did grayscale, adjusted the sharpness and set the colors to their accurate values. The DWIN was WAY off! End result on the calibration...It looks wonderful!!! Would I do it again, you bet you A$$ I would! I am thunderstruck at the difference that this calibration yielded.

If you are thinking about having Chuck out to do your display, I can honestly tell you that you won’t regret it. He is a very nice guy who included me and made me feel part of the process by explaining what he was doing and how it benefits the display.

As I look over to my freshly calibrated display while writing this, I know that this is the best $ you can spend for your HT.


Fred

Anyone have any experience with Cox Cable HD?

They realigned and added channels today.

Cinemax HD seems to be on a free sampling. Channel 233 (and 319) were showing 'From Hell' in non-OAR, but with 5.1 sound.

StarZ HD was not available at my house.

(Caution: The movie after 'From Hell' was not in HD.)

Update on my Dish 811. Although it's hard to believe, Dish has fixed the issues with WOIO!! When I called they said they would be contacting WOIO to work out the difficulties & all it took was 2 days & it's fixed.

Wow, sometimes Dish actually does come through with something good. On the other hand, it was to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the 1st place...oh well.

-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Update on my Dish 811. Although it's hard to believe, Dish has fixed the issues with WOIO!! When I called they said they would be contacting WOIO to work out the difficulties & all it took was 2 days & it's fixed.

Wow, sometimes Dish actually does come through with something good. On the other hand, it was to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the 1st place...oh well.

-Todd

WEWS on channel 210 is also missing as is DIY on channel 121. Looks like COMCAST doesn't have their act together.........

Originally posted by IlyaV
So, any reports from the ISF Tour? How is it going? I agree with Fred in that Chuck was very friendly and inviting. I had Chuck calibrate my 2 year old Pio plasma. My results weren't as dramatic, though, since my Pio was basically at the calibrated settings. Chuck did turn down my contrast, which is good because this can significantly shorten the life of my set. I had hoped to improve the picture quality of my SD content, which is Comcast cable. Unfortunately, the problem was with the incoming signal, not the TV.

My HD picture looks the same also since it was already perfect. Chuck also checked my DVD player (RP-91) and, once again, everything's great at the 0 settings - no adjustments needed.

This all cost $340 for about 3 1/2 hours work, which is a lot for no real improvement. But at least I know now that it's as good as it's going to get, which is great for HD and DVD. I will probably change my SD supplier to DirectTV or possibly VOOM down the road.

Chuck just left my house. He was great. Did an electrostatic focus...which was pretty good he said anyway. Now it's better. Manual focus was good enough so he left it alone instead of taking apart the back of the TV. Convergence was already pretty good so not much needed there. He adjusted brightness settings that I've never seen in the service menu & also adjusted the user end settings which weren't right. Even though he wasn't doing an official ISF, Chuck was VERY VERY cool & fixed a bunch of gray scale stuff by sight/memory, just because he saw it was out of wack & wanted to help me by getting it at least in the ball park. He has a Sony TV similar to mine that helped him know where to set them. He fixed a bunch of color issues too. The end result was a much better HD picture! Even my wife noted that it looked better. More details & considerably more crisp.

I'm glad he came out & I will have him back in the future as it was fun to watch him do his stuff & the results were great.

On another note, I jumped the gun on thanking Dish Network for fixing the surround audio on CBS...it's fixed for many of the CBS programs on other nights, but tonight I've discovered it's still LEFT channel only coming out of all 5 speakers for CSI...man that sucks. I'll wait another week & call Dish AGAIN to bug them to fix it.

-Todd

I just finished with the calibration and it resulted in a great improvement in picture fidelity. Chuck made significant adjustments in my GWII's picture, discovered a bad component cable with my DVD player, and fine tuned the DVD's output as well. Watching LOR Two Towers was like watching a new movie.

Very pleased with the results and recommend the service highly.

Did anyone notice that WUABDT (UPN) was broadcasting a movie called Gossip tonight in HD. I've never received this channel in HD before. I wonder if this will stick.

Bizily do you have comcast digital cable. If you do what channel is upn hd in. Its not showing up on my box when i think they said that in the channel change that it was going to. I didnt get any new hd channels like we were suppose to except cinemax hd.

Greetings All! I have another question.

I don't have cable or satellite, only OTA HD, but recently got the urge to get more HD content.

For cable, in North Olmsted, I can either get Adelphia or WOW. The latter (WOW) I do have cable Internet service from them.

I've had basic E* before I got rid of it & went OTA. So there's still E*, DirectTV, and is there some 'new' satellite provider exclusive to HD? I saw this in one of the Sear's ads couple weekends ago before I started to think about other HD contents so I didn't note the name.

Does anyone here have any input as to which way to go?

Thanks,
Robert

WUAB has been doing HD for a month or two. Enterprise and Jake 2.0 on Wednesday nights are in HD. They sometimes do their Friday night movie in HD. The problem is that it is often preempted by a Cavs game. When they rebroadcast the movie over the weekend it is always in SD. They apparently don't have the equipment to record the HD feed from UPN. Titantv.com has been pretty good about listing what shows on the networks will be in HD.

Steve

takosan,
The "new" satellite provider is VOOM. If you go by the numbers they do have more HD channels than anyone. One big one that they don't have though is ESPNHD. They also carry a limited number of SD channels. I'm a sci-fi nut and the deal beaker for me was the fact that they don't carry the Sci-Fi channel. Who knows though, they are just getting started so that may change. You can check them out at voom.com.

Steve

Be wary of VOOM. There have been numerous posts about install nightmares. You may want to wait it out a bit and let the service mature a little.

Originally posted by oachalon
Bizily do you have comcast digital cable. If you do what channel is upn hd in. Its not showing up on my box when i think they said that in the channel change that it was going to. I didnt get any new hd channels like we were suppose to except cinemax hd. I have standard Comcast cable, not digital. I receive all of my HD content OTA. I didn't realize that WUABDT (43-1) has been doing HD for awhile now. I'll have to tune in to the Wednesday night programming that SteveC mentions. Though, after watching the movie Gossip last night for about an hour, the signal switched back to SD. This movie was just not interesting enough to watch in SD, so I turned to something else.

Originally posted by hoops10
Be wary of VOOM. There have been numerous posts about install nightmares. You may want to wait it out a bit and let the service mature a little.
Well, my VOOM installation went smooth. Cleveland's local VOOM installers are not too bad. Plus, there is enough information on this forum to help you out if things do go wrong. And it's certainly worth it. I now have 30 HD channels plus 5 local HD channels. I watch HD 95% of the time! Next month they promise to add 9 more HD channels and a bunch of SD channels. After that I am planning to dump my cable and go VOOM-only.

In comparison, Adelphia's recent HD roll-out of their 4(!) HD channels was a joke (IMHO, anyway)!

VOOM sounds very intriguing. They also have a DVR planned for release this summer: 'http://www .pcmag . com/article2/0%2C4149%2C1430257%2C00.asp'. I'm a TiVo owner and I'd never go back to being without it or something similar. Does anyone know how well the VOOM STB would work with my TiVo standalone STB?

The Adelphia repairman was just here (bad length of cable). He said Adelphia would have 4 HD channels by the end of January and a total of 8 "in March" (?). He mentioned they were negotiating for ESPNHD.

I'm not holding my breath.

Originally posted by Bizily
Does anyone know how well the VOOM STB would work with my TiVo standalone STB?
I personally don't know much about TiVo compatibility, but I can say that all of the VOOM STB's outputs are active simultaneously (DVI, component, s-video and composite). So if you have a recorder that accepts one of those types of connections, then you should be able to record. Firewire is not currently supported, but it is coming in the future, according to some reports.

Originally posted by IlyaV
...but I can say that all of the VOOM STB's outputs are active simultaneously (DVI, component, s-video and composite). I think this would work because I believe TiVo standalones work with other STBs, such as digital cable boxes, by using TiVo's IR transmitter. So my TiVo box would not tune the incoming signal; it would just ouput the desired channel to the VOOM box using the IR transmitter. The only problem is that TiVo would need to know VOOM's lineup and IR codes and I doubt that it does.

I know people are thinking, "Why the hell would you want to use VOOM's downgraded composite signal (or s-video) instead of viewing its glorious HD signal. Heck, that's the beauty of VOOM!" It's just that I don't want to give up my TiVo. TiVo's time-shifting outweighs its second class picture quality. That's also why I have my eyes on the VOOM DVR planned for mid-2004. Then I'll have the best of both worlds.

Originally posted by Bizily
The only problem is that TiVo would need to know VOOM's lineup and IR codes and I doubt that it does.
Where does the standalone TiVo get its lineup? I guess, most of the independent TV guide providers will have VOOM lineup pretty soon, if they don't have it already.

As for IR codes, when I was programming my receiver's universal remote for VOOM, It didn't have neither VOOM nor Motorola listed, but I discovered that IR codes for the following satellite boxes work well with VOOM STB: General Instrument (GI), Jerrold and Primestar. If you have one of these brands listed, chances are, it might work.

Hey, neighbors! If you have any other VOOM-related questions, I'll be happy to answer!

Originally posted by roblake
The Adelphia repairman was just here (bad length of cable). He said Adelphia would have 4 HD channels by the end of January and a total of 8 "in March" (?). He mentioned they were negotiating for ESPNHD.

I'm not holding my breath.

Would that be 4 more, or is he talking about the 4 they already have?

-Todd

Good question! I don't know, sorry.

Fellas

2 weeks from today we embark on the biggest sporting event of the year. 2 weeks from now, everyone will be watching CBS. 2 weeks from now we will all most likely be having parties, showing off how sweet HD is for football. And 2 weeks from now, WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture.

I'm gonna bring this up again closer to the game, but do you think starting next Wednesday or so, we should start calling up WOIO chief engineer and making damn sure they have everything set up perfectly for the game? I certainly don't want to have to deal with calling the news room the night of the game to flip the switch or something. In all fairness, WOIO has been good from what I have seen over the last few weeks, especially for all the NFL playoff games. Honestly the only problem they have had was a network issue of having that stupid Gumble doing the play by play instead of the main man Dick Enberg.

Just a thought, lets hear yours.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Fellas

2 weeks from today we embark on the biggest sporting event of the year. 2 weeks from now, everyone will be watching CBS. 2 weeks from now we will all most likely be having parties, showing off how sweet HD is for football. And 2 weeks from now, WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture.

I'm gonna bring this up again closer to the game, but do you think starting next Wednesday or so, we should start calling up WOIO chief engineer and making damn sure they have everything set up perfectly for the game? I certainly don't want to have to deal with calling the news room the night of the game to flip the switch or something. In all fairness, WOIO has been good from what I have seen over the last few weeks, especially for all the NFL playoff games. Honestly the only problem they have had was a network issue of having that stupid Gumble doing the play by play instead of the main man Dick Enberg.

Just a thought, lets hear yours.

You mean like two years ago when FOX had their DTV equipment get knocked out by lightening the day before the super bowl & made no mention of it and my house of 35 people had to watch in crummy stretched 4:3? The funny thing about it was that to THIS DAY my friends all make fun of me because I was so pissed that I mised 1/2 the game which was great for a change (New England / St. Louis I think). While they were all busy watching that great game, eating, drinking, I was on the phone with the control room with FOX & raging mad. The point is that even though it was important to me, the vast majority of the people at the party didn't care. That was two years ago though so people might be in tune with 16:9 HD (although FOX is of course only 480P for now). Anyway, I think even should something screw up, it'll be US that will be by far the most upset by it! But, it's worth bugging them a bit probably! :)

-T

Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and site as well as to hdtv. A couple of weeks ago, I got Directv HD installed at my condo. I also installed a Terk55 antenna to recieve the local channels. However, I don't know if it is the antenna or what, but I cannot get WKYC to come in at all! I receive no signal. I have about 50 ft. of cable from the ant to my tv. When I added another 25ft. of cable, WKYC came in fine, but then none of the other staions came in. So I went back to 50ft. of cable. All the other channels seem to come in decent (WOIO has alot of dropouts). I know people have mixed opinions about the Terk55, but I live in a condo, and I can't really mount anything to my roof, so I have the antenna attached to my patio. Anybody have any ideas on how to get these channels? Maybe some indoor antenna would work better? I live in Painesvile, ohio. Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks alot!

---Phillip

WKYC-DT is on VHF Ch 2 - not a UHF channel like the others. Try a good old set of rabbit ears for Ch 2

You are a long way from the transmitters to get OTA without a good antenna. As was mentioned two of the stations are in the VHF range so a UHF only antenna will probably give you problems. You could try an antenna in the attic which works for some.

Channel 3 WKYC DT channel 2 is poor anyway. I have a large attic antenna and cannot consistently receive them.
Unrelated note I see WOIO channel 19 forgot to turn on HD for the 8-11 pm primtetime last night. I crack up when I see the Zenith HDTV promo on a 4/3 picture.

WOIO also forgot to throw the switch for most of the NFL pregame show yesterday.

Why cant people like us, who care about HD control the switch?

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
...WOIO will probably royally screw something up and embarass us all in front of our friends because they screwed up the sound or picture. You can bet there will be problems. Speaking of, how was everyone's signal for the CBS playoff (Pats vs. Colts) yesterday? Mine was awful. It was dropping out so much that I had to switch to SD.

I said this last year and, unfortunately, I have to say it again, but there is no way I would host a Super Bowl party to show off my HD. If it turned out anything like last night's broadcast, I would be laughed out of my own house.

Originally posted by bassguitarman
...I crack up when I see the Zenith HDTV promo on a 4/3 picture. What cracks me up is when I talk to people with standard television who swear that they have HD because of those stupid promos. What's worse is that they then come to the conclusion that HD is no big deal because it is no better than their SD picture. Of course, they're comparing between two SD pictures! The industry is to blame for this. They have royally confused the consumer when it comes to HD.

[i]WOIO also forgot to throw the switch for most of the NFL pregame show yesterday.

And we should add that 'Cold Case' on Sunday was totally in 4:3, as telecast by WOIO.

I couldn't work up the enthusiasm to contact them, again.

Originally posted by Bizily
You can bet there will be problems. Speaking of, how was everyone's signal for the CBS playoff (Pats vs. Colts) yesterday? Mine was awful. It was dropping out so much that I had to switch to SD.


My reception was good but not great. There were a few dropouts, but not to the point were I would have to switch to SD. The main dropouts I experienced were in the audio. It is horrible!! Also, when I have WOIO on surround sound, it sounds different from any other station. I just doesn't sound right. Sound like same sounds are coming out of all speakers. This is the only station that does this! I wish they would just go to 5.1 already!!

--Phillip

Following a prior posting, noting that the signal was VHF, not UHF, I took a connector-with-wire that came with a Sony audio receiver and wrapped the end around a halogen floor lamp ($11 type). Worked very well for CBS, but not much seemed to be HD. Will try it for other VHF-HD later today.

Tacking the wire to the lead (Pb) array in the leaded glass window did NOT work well.

has anyone heard when (and if) Adelphia will be offering more HD programs? I called on their PVR and they plan to offer the deck during February, but I can't get any info on new channels. Thanks.

Hi all,
I live in willoughby toward the lake off lost nation road. I am having problems with hd reception. I have a new rat shack 120" uhf/vhv antenna, mounted on top of my two story house with a 10 foot pole(the antenna is about 6' above the roof line). I am using RG6 from the antenna until the wall then into a wall plate (around a 30 foot run) ... then to the receiver. The antenna is on the south side of the house and pointed about 220*. I have a fusionII HDTV card in my htpc.

I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2). My signal strength is about 65-75% on 5 and 8 and a little lower on 43.

I checked the rg6 several times for bad connection...
What could be wrong? is there a way to test the antenna? Could I use a ohm meter at the end of the cable to make sure that its OK ?

I know that it's hard to trouble shoot something that you can't see or touch, bur hopefully someone might have some input.

Thanks for your help
Brian

Hi Brian,

I live in Willoughby just south of you, off of Erie Rd. I also have a rooftop antenna, but mounted on a tripod. Mine is not quite as large nor is it quite as high as yours. I get 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43 very strong. In fact, I've never had a problem with signal strength. I use a Zenith HDV420, though I doubt that that has anything do to with it since it's a pretty basic HD receiver. I don't know much about antenna technology, so I can't help much with your questions. I just wanted to let you know that your on the right track and that it is absolutely possible to get good reception from where you're at.

Originally posted by Brian Morris
Hi all,

...

I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2). My signal strength is about 65-75% on 5 and 8 and a little lower on 43.

I checked the rg6 several times for bad connection...
What could be wrong? is there a way to test the antenna? Could I use a ohm meter at the end of the cable to make sure that its OK ?

I know that it's hard to trouble shoot something that you can't see or touch, bur hopefully someone might have some input.

Thanks for your help
Brian

Brian -

An ohm meter at one end of the cable won't tell you squat unless the cable is shorted out, which is unlikely since you are getting some reception. I can think of a few ways to check it:

1. Find some Adelphia installer at the local bar and convince him to bring his magic meter box over. It will tell you signal strength on the digital channels.

2. Get up on the roof and short out the antenna end of the RG-6. Then measure the resistance from center conductor to shield with an ohm meter. Or you can reverse the process a bit, shorting out the TV end and measuring the resistance from up on the roof. Since you are getting some reception, this may not be worthwhile.

3. Find someone with a time-domain reflectometer (essentially a pulser with a very high-speed oscilloscope. That will tell you the quality of the RG-6 and every connection along the way, as well as indicating how good the cable<=>antenna match is.

BTW, I can't get any hint of NBC 2 here in Cleveland Heights :={{{

I am within spitting distance from you and receive wkyc pretty strong. While signal strength is relative to the receiving equipment mine is in the 90's. Wkyc's digital channel 2 is at the very low end of the VHF spectrum so maybe the card isn't tuning that low. How well does it receive the analog signal on channel 3? I had a problem recently where channel 2 showed up as 2.1 instead of 3.1 with no signal. I wound up unplugging the receiver and clearing everything in it. After some playing around I finally got it to scan correctly. You might check the RG6 ends to make sure the center wire didn't pull back in. Also make sure the shields are making good contact with the connectors and no strands floating in the connector. Also make sure the balun is good for VHF and UHF. I have seen that happen when the wire is stretched. 220 degrees is about the right angle as that is where my rotor gets the maximum signal. That is about all I can think of at the moment. I do get some periods of interference which is probably reflected signals from the buildings in Cleveland or Aircraft taking off.....

Edit: A last thought, have you checked for and installed the latest drivers for your card and the software for it?

Originally posted by panjj
has anyone heard when (and if) Adelphia will be offering more HD programs? I called on their PVR and they plan to offer the deck during February, but I can't get any info on new channels. Thanks.

Will this be an HDTV PVR? I haven't heard anything about adelphia releasing a HD PVR.

Thanks.

Jim

The "rumor" is that the initial release is not HD, with an HD option to follow within 2 months. I do not know if this is true.

Originally posted by Brian Morris
I get 5 8 and 43. I can't get anything from 3(2).

And you don't mention the other VHF station, channel 10 aka 19-1.

Do you get anything in the VHF band?

Sorry, yes I do get channel 10 fine,

I have off today so I wanted to fix this thing... I have a rat shack high gain signal amp that I usually use coming out of my dtv receiver to send signal out to the upstairs... I tried it in line with my antenna, and guess what ! I now get everything in the 80-90% well almost... channel 2 is floating from 8% to 65% It's kind of weird.. one second it will have 65% in acouple seconds it has 10% then 0% then back to 65%... I did notice now I get channel 3 (non HDTV), and its clear to boot.. (never got that channel either)

Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?
I am not even sure that the amp I am using now, is for what I am using it for.

Thanks for all the input so far...

Brian

Originally posted by Shark73
Will this be an HDTV PVR? I haven't heard anything about adelphia releasing a HD PVR.

Thanks.

Jim

Scientific Atlanta's SA8000HD is the box that Adelphia is looking at but it is not ready yet. Give them and SA a couple of months. As far as programming goes, I hear CBS is being difficult because they have the product ( meaning Super Bowl), but lets see what happens after that. CinemaxHD will definitely launch in Feb. and according to CED Magazine, Adelphia has signed the contract with HDNet . Look for this to air in about 4-6 weeks.

Originally posted by Brian Morris
Sorry, yes I do get channel 10 fine,

I have off today so I wanted to fix this thing... I have a rat shack high gain signal amp that I usually use coming out of my dtv receiver to send signal out to the upstairs... I tried it in line with my antenna, and guess what ! I now get everything in the 80-90% well almost... channel 2 is floating from 8% to 65% It's kind of weird.. one second it will have 65% in acouple seconds it has 10% then 0% then back to 65%... I did notice now I get channel 3 (non HDTV), and its clear to boot.. (never got that channel either)

Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?
I am not even sure that the amp I am using now, is for what I am using it for.

Thanks for all the input so far...

Brian

I think you need to check the crossovers and all connections on the antenna for a short. It sounds like you have a weak signal coming from the antenna. Make sure the VHF section is strapped to the UHF section correctly. I am using the same antenna as you are. While I have an amp on the antenna it made no difference in the signal. I installed it last fall to see if it would eliminate the dropouts I was seeing especially WOIO. It had no affect. It has been a couple years since I put the antenna up but I remember it came with the UHF and VHF sections separate and they had to be strapped together. Also as I said in a previous post check for pulled back center leads in the connections. If your run is over about 50 feet or you are splitting the cable the amp should help some but you need a solid signal to the amp. It ain't no fun working on antennas in todays weather...

Edit: Noticed you said you use the amp out of your DTV receiver to the upstairs. Is the antenna cable running thru the DTV box to the pc or is it running direct to the pc thru a splitter or whatever. Do you receive 3.1 on the DTV receiver? Maybe a little clarification on your setup will help. One other item, you aren't using any FM traps are you.....

Originally posted by Brian Morris
Do you think that a antenna preamp that is mounted up closer to the antenna and not down next to the receiver would work better?

My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.

I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.

Originally posted by StanZ
My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.

I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.

Hi Stan, I found the same thing. I was getting dropouts on 3.1 and loosing 19.1 a lot so I tried a RS four way splitter amp which didn't help. I then put an amp on the antenna which made no difference. Lately the signals have been pretty good if only WOIO would only transmit the HD shows in HD.....

Originally posted by StanZ
My preamp was originally at the antenna. Later, an antenna installer replaced it with one at the point of entry in the basement. He said they have better luck with them. They also last longer.

I'm happy with it. I'd say signal strength is about the same either way.

If most or all of your stations are moderate to strong, placing the preamp at the entry point may be a better way to go. The extra couple of db loss in the coax may help avoid overdriving the amp. RF is funny that way. If you have a lot and make it bigger, the picture gets worse. From the fluctuating signal level, I'd say there's something loose and blowing in the wind at his antenna. The only time I've had signal swings that big was when only one of two wires was connected.

WOIO is the only local station not showing the HD feed of the State of the Union tonight. They better get their act together for the Super Bowl. This is getting really bad again. Lets start calling and sending emails again.

Jim

I am sorry for the setup confusion,
On the Dtv receiver I have the normal dual LBN in only, I use the S-video out for main video. I use the RF out to send signal also to a upstairs room. The line runs to three rooms so I had the amp right at the Dtv receiver to keep the signal strong.

The hdtv antenna only goes to the Fusion II card in the PC(htpc). Theres no splitters in line. Only the wall plate and now the amp.
On the amp there is a FM trap that I do have on...

I really want to check the connections and antenna out, but its so so cold and very high up on the snowy slippery roof...

Maybe I should call someone and have them check it out up there for me.
Does someone know who does that kind of stuff ? Then again I hate to pay someone to do something that I could do...

Thanks again for all the help guys, I usually hang in the CRT and HTPC parts of the forum... now I have a new section to check out !!!!

Brian

I dont know about you guys, but I have just about had it WKYC and Adelphia for that matter. How is it that I am getting big time pixelization and signal dropouts on adelphia's cable feed for Ch. 3? I thought I was watching the OTA feed! Last night the State of the Union rhetoric...uhh.. I mean "address" was excellent quality on both WEWS and WKYC (although one could argue the merits of either 1080i or 720p respectively). Tonight, no good. Dropouts everywhere? I am at my wits end. It doesn't help that my wife is so fed up with it she dives for the remote at the first sign of dropout and we go back to D*. I dont want to get off on a rant, but...

Originally posted by ParsonsBri
I dont know about you guys, but I have just about had it WKYC and Adelphia for that matter. I don't think any of the stations or cable/satellite companies really have their acts together on this stuff yet. At least not based on my experiences and the various reports that I've read here.

I was pleased to see that Enterprise is now in HD on UPN here in Cleveland. But somehow for the last ten minutes of the show, they switched back to SD. I don't get it - why can't they get this stuff together?

The signal was dropping out a bit too often for my liking as well, but that probably just means that I need to get my antenna up higher. That'll have to wait for warmer weather.

In need of help.

I just took delivery on a Wingard PR-7052. I am replacing the "stock" antenna that was on my house when I bought it 3 years ago. So far, I can never get digital NBC to stay solid for more than 5 minutes and digital 5 and 8 tend be moody on any given day. Analog Channel 43 rarely comes in without static and I get PBS maybe 2 times a month. I am hoping that the new Wingard will clear all this up for me because I am excited to watch PBS when it goes digital.

I plan to have a local shop install it for me. I may use Westpark TV on Lorain RD near me but I wanted to check here to see if anyone can suggest a more affordable alternative. They said something around $250 to install it for me. That sounds steep but I don't know anything about pricing antenna installs.

I'd like to have fresh cabling put in from the roof to my basement and split the signal to 4 rooms. I have a single story bungalow in Fairview Park.

thanks!

Shawn,

If you are doing all of this mainly for PBS I would wait. At the very earliest I doubt they will be digital until the summer, and I would bet later than that. Also, how well you receive the analog station has nothing to do with your digital reception. So if you can hardly get PBS, you may get the Digital PBS just peachy.

WKYC Digital 2 seems to give everyone grief, it is a very difficult signal to pull in.

I don't know how daring you are, but before you spend any money and after the snow melts, get out a ladder and see what you can do to the antenna for positioning. I'm using a cheap 30 dollar antenna from Sears Hardware and only have trouble with an occasional signal, but thats due to my elevation and buildings around me. If I had the antenna a little higher I bet I would get everything in Cleveland just fine. Go up on the roof, see how easy it is to turn, and make sure it is pointing where you need it. Check out www.antennaweb.org for help with directions.

Or just throw up a pair of rabit ears and see what you get, you may be surprised.

Thanks Mike, but I already have a 110" Winegard Antenna sitting in my living room. I was hoping someone could suggest good affordable installer for it.

BTW, any reason why you ordered me to post in this thread instead of just politely answering me in my other original post last week?

I live in Portage county just past Streetsboro and get all 5 HD feeds from Cleveland just fine. I have an outside antenna (ratshack) about 20 feet off the ground.
BTW, WEWS ch5 is now in their new news broadcast studios and the news is HD along with most if not all local news stories. You can really see Ted Henry's age lines! LOL!

Originally posted by Shawn Pilichis
In need of help.

I just took delivery on a Wingard PR-7052. I am replacing the "stock" antenna that was on my house when I bought it 3 years ago. So far, I can never get digital NBC to stay solid for more than 5 minutes and digital 5 and 8 tend be moody on any given day. Analog Channel 43 rarely comes in without static and I get PBS maybe 2 times a month. I am hoping that the new Wingard will clear all this up for me because I am excited to watch PBS when it goes digital.

I plan to have a local shop install it for me. I may use Westpark TV on Lorain RD near me but I wanted to check here to see if anyone can suggest a more affordable alternative. They said something around $250 to install it for me. That sounds steep but I don't know anything about pricing antenna installs.

I'd like to have fresh cabling put in from the roof to my basement and split the signal to 4 rooms. I have a single story bungalow in Fairview Park.

thanks!

I would consider $250 reasonable to do the work. When you consider all the costs a company has to put a qualified rep in the field it isn't cheap. He has to be insured in case the rep does any damage, pay workman comp fees, ss, medical plan, etc. I doubt that he could put a tech in the field for under $100 an hour. In fact I don't think I would do it as an individual for less.......

Originally posted by Argee
BTW, WEWS ch5 is now in their new news broadcast studios and the news is HD along with most if not all local news stories. You can really see Ted Henry's age lines! LOL!

Actually the WEWS news does not appear to be HD, it is just a good SD digital signal (and stretched to something like 14:9?). WKYC News is a decievingly good SD broadcast as well. I thought that was HD the first time I saw it.

-- Paul

Paul,

I think WKYC does do the news in HD. Can someone confirm this?

Jim

Shawn as you can tell this is a purely Cleveland thread. I myself rarely check for other threads about our local area and I'm sure others here dont either. I just happened to see your thread on the top of the list randomly. You'll get the most results here, and I was also hoping you would continue to post in this thread, to help share information on HD in Cleveland from your own personal experiences.

I've heard that WKYC does do news in HD, but I dont think I have seen it. The picture looks great, but you can tell its stretched by simply flipping over to 3-2 or the analog signal. Channel 3 doesnt do a straight up stretch, its narrower in the middle than on the extreme sides, its also zoomed a bit. But Im sure we've all noticed that on other shows, cuz it doesnt look good :)

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
I've heard that WKYC does do news in HD, but I dont think I have seen it. The picture looks great, but you can tell its stretched by simply flipping over to 3-2 or the analog signal. Channel 3 doesnt do a straight up stretch, its narrower in the middle than on the extreme sides, its also zoomed a bit. But Im sure we've all noticed that on other shows, cuz it doesnt look good :)

I do not believe this is the case. WKYC does NOT do their news broadcast in HD, unless this is something new & I have not heard. Their SD broadcast of the news is however, very clear & as good as SD gets. Their digital studio provides one of the best quality pictures, so I'm sure this adds to the confusion. Anyway, it's not HD.

-Todd

Hey Guys!

I just recently did a rescan of HD channels with my MyHD Card and found 17.1-.3 . Any one have an idea where these came from???

Originally posted by Chuck Coughlin
Hey Guys!

I just recently did a rescan of HD channels with my MyHD Card and found 17.1-.3 . Any one have an idea where these came from???


Channel 17 WDLI in Canton. Religious.

TV21: I know you are associated with WFMJ 21, but have you heard at all when WKBN is going digital? I have sent numerous emails but got no response. Thanks.

Last Tues. (1/20), Scientific Atlanta had a firmware upgrade and for new Adelphia HDTV subscribers and old ones that are still having problems be sure to setup your TV using the new setup wizard. Follow the below instructions to complete it.

1. Power off the STB but leave the TV on

2. Press the info and guide buttons simultaneously.

3. Follow instructions until you get to easy/advanced settings.

4.Use advanced settings.

(Save all formats that your tv recognizes. By pressing the "b" button you will skip to the next format)If your tv "Flickers" it means your TV cant transmit the signal.

5. Exit to black screen (your tv is off remember)

6. Turn on tv and press settings button 2 times(general settings)

7. Go to picture format and set for "pass thru".

8. Press exit and then settings button once(quick settings)

9. Go to picture size and set to normal.

This will be default settings for your particular Tv and pictures will adjust automatically with format size displayed. Go to SA web site for more detailed specs

OBTW CinamaxHD and StarzHD in Feb. Still working on CBS

handsworth -

Thanks, but this algorithm doesn't compute! TV is ON in Step 1, yet you say TV is OFF in Step 5.

Will CinamaxHD and StarzHD cost extra $$$ ?

Obviously a typo. The TV should be on the entire time and the cable box should be off the entire time. Thanks for posting this information. I noticed the new choices by accident.

Anyone want to define what "upconvert 1" and "upconvert 2" mean, since those are two other choices given in the settings menu?


Also, I assume that if you already subscribe to the Cinemax and Starz packages on regular digital you will get the HD stations, since that's the way it works for HBO and Showtime.


Originally posted by roblake
handsworth -

Thanks, but this algorithm doesn't compute! TV is ON in Step 1, yet you say TV is OFF in Step 5.

Will CinamaxHD and StarzHD cost extra $$$ ?

Thanks for the update handsworth! I haven't seen the extra options on the STB, but will need to look over them tonight.

As jtscherne stated, you will get Cinemax & Starz if you pay for the SD channels.

I first noticed that things had changed when I changed stations from an HD station to a standard station and saw that the resolution is now briefly shown in the lower right corner of the screen (i.e., 1080i to 480i).

I may need to reset the box, because I didn't see that last night. Thanks for the info.

I was going to watch Las Vegas last night in HD but as soon as it came on WKYC HD went dead. However before it was to come on the commercials showed a lot of pixelation on the sharp edges on Comcast cable HD. Almost like not enough bandwidth. I Haven't watched HD on the cable yet so will have to watch and see if this is always there. The HD signal was dead on OTA also. It would be nice to get some decent reliable HD in Cleveland. The awards picture last night was terrible on the HD channel and was terrible on the cable. I wound up watching it on the OTA analog station:(

Originally posted by wfwiles
I was going to watch Las Vegas last night in HD but as soon as it came on WKYC HD went dead... It would be nice to get some decent reliable HD in Cleveland...(


I believe it was a network problem since my feed did the same thing.

Why are there so many problems with local HD signals? Shouldn't there be complaints files with the FCC? If the channels are advertising how they broadcast in glorious digital and the consumer spends good money to upgrade isn't that deception? What gives here???

Originally posted by handsworth
Last Tues. (1/20), Scientific Atlanta had a firmware upgrade and for new Adelphia HDTV subscribers and old ones that are still having problems be sure to setup your TV using the new setup wizard. Follow the below instructions to complete it.



Works great! Good catch. MUCH better to not have to switch from 480i to 1080i in the menu every time. If you've already setup the wizard, you can probably go straight to step 6 & set to pass-through. The new wizard looks better by the way. I checked that out 1st.

-Todd

Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.

What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?

Originally posted by VSTAR
I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic

My experience is that I can NOT receive the VHF channels from my attic antenna.

If it's temporary, why not just try it indoors. Then you can twist it around. I have to point my outdoor at 260 degrees in order to get CBS, whereas everything us supposed to be at 230 degrees.

Your guests will be tolerant if you can get them high-def super bowl.

Originally posted by VSTAR
Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.

What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?

You could try it but if it doesn't work rig up something temporary for the super bowl. Possibly strap the antenna mast to a ladder against the side of the house. If there isn't a wind storm it should work. Anything to get the superbowl in HD. Maybe we will be lucky and the station will actually switch on the HD feed:D

Originally posted by VSTAR
Who here is from the East side near Painesville ? I wonder if anybody is getting ota reception from an antenna in their attic? I want to get an antenna up for the Super Bowl however due to the crappy weather have not had a chance to get one up outside.

What kind of reception can I expect ? If any ?

VSTAR -

I've been trying various tricks to get OTA without a regular antenna. Tried a set-top and tried an indoor small multi-element. Neither worked either well or consistently.

Then I took a single-wire F connector (no shield wire) that was laying around from my FM receiver and tied it to: Leaded glass window frame; radiator cover; halogen floor lamp; etc. Didn't actually connect the wire, just DuckTaped the end of it. The halogen floor lamp worked best. Will be trying some other inanimate objects around the living room before Sunday's game ...

With the floor lamp, when I get signal dropout, I can often restore the signal just by raising my hand from where I'm sitting 12' away.

Thanks guys. I think if worst case scenario I put the antenna outside on my deck I might get something. I was hoping to get up on the roof this week but with this latest storm there is no way.

This information, extracted from FCC engineering data bases, may give you some idea as to why some stations are difficult to receive:

DTV City Call ERP (kW) Analog chan
30 AKRON WBNX-TV 1000.000 55
50 AKRON WEAO 180.000 49
59 AKRON WVPX 630.000 23
39 CANTON WDLI 200.000 17
47 CANTON WOAC 1000.000 67
47 CANTON WOAC 17.300
2 CLEVELAND WKYC-TV 8.000 3
15 CLEVELAND WEWS-TV 870.000 5
26 CLEVELAND WVIZ 100.000 25
31 CLEVELAND WJW 625.000 8
34 CLEVELAND WQHS-TV 525.000 61
28 LORAIN WUAB 200.000 43
12 MANSFIELD WMFD-TV 4.800 68
10 SHAKER HEIGHTS WOIO 3.500 19
20 YOUNGSTOWN WFMJ-TV 460.000 21
20 YOUNGSTOWN WFMJ-TV 200.000
36 YOUNGSTOWN WYTV 48.800 33
36 YOUNGSTOWN WYTV 50.000
41 YOUNGSTOWN WKBN-TV 700.000 27

Well isn't that just great. WOIO is 3.500(kW). How in the **** is anybody more than 15 miles out going to pick that signal up? So much for Super Sunday.

I know I have been on a WKYC rant lately, but let me see if I get this straight. WOIO is at 3.5kw and I get that about 80% approximately 25 miles away. WKYC is at 8.0kw and I almost never, ever get a signal that I can hold, even through adelphia. For those of us laymen, what gives? There must be some simple explanation.

Even better:
why is WBNX 1 megawatt? Last time I checked titantv, they were still waiting for a permit. Besides, the WB doesn't even have hardly any HD content.

On another local note, perhaps you guys can help me. I'll soon take the dive into HD. Right now, I'm just a digital TWC customer. TWC is slowly adding the digitial locals. Right now, I have 3 (.1, .2, and .3), 5, 8, 45, 49. I get audio only on all but 3.2 and 3.3, as I do not yet have the HD terminal. I've got a Denon AVR-2801 receiver. The only time it displays DOLBY DIGITAL is when it detects a true 5.1 audio source. If it is DD but not 5.1 (say 4.0, for example), it simply shows PRO LOGIC.

I guess that is enough for my question. Over in the HD Programmig Forum, people were talking about A Bug's Life and Armagedon being in 5.1 when aired on ABC. When I goto that WEWS during those shows, I was seeing PRO LOGIC. Why am I not seeing a true 5.1 sound signal? Is it because WEWS can't/didn't do 5.1? Is it because TWC did something to the signal? Is it simply because I don't have the HD box?

Frank

Frank,

None of the Cleveland stations are setup to do 5.1. That's why you did't have it for the movies.


Jim

Originally posted by VSTAR
Well isn't that just great. WOIO is 3.500(kW). How in the **** is anybody more than 15 miles out going to pick that signal up? So much for Super Sunday.
For one thing, the general rule-of thumb between DTV and analog stations is that digital requires only about 10% of the power of analog stations for equivalent coverage (in theory at least). Also, stations in the VHF band require less power than UHF. As I recall, low VHF band analog stations (channels 2-6) can have a maximum visual ERP of 100kW, high VHF band (7-13) a max of 316kW, and UHF a max of 1MW (within 60 miles of Canada) or 5MW (more than 60 miles from Canada).

Thanks, Jim. Makes sense now. Are any planning 5.1 in the near future?

BTW, TWC Akron just added HDNet and HDNet Movies this morning.

As far as we know not a single station has plans to offer 5.1 anytime soon.

Good to hear that you have HDNet now. They have some good HD programming. And almost everything should be in 5.1.

Enjoy!

Jim

Originally posted by fpo701
Even better:
why is WBNX 1 megawatt? Last time I checked titantv, they were still waiting for a permit. Besides, the WB doesn't even have hardly any HD content.

The FCC list I posted includes all stations that have a valid construction permit, not necessarily those that are on the air, or even started construction for that matter.

Originally posted by techweb
The FCC list I posted includes all stations that have a valid construction permit, not necessarily those that are on the air, or even started construction for that matter.

Is it also true that the numbers you posted are what was alloted to the station? They don't have to transmit at the full power amount.

WOIO states that they are at full power, based on an email from the station manager.

Thanks,

Jim

Originally posted by techweb
As I recall, low VHF band analog stations (channels 2-6) can have a maximum visual ERP of 100kW, high VHF band (7-13) a max of 316kW, and UHF a max of 1MW (within 60 miles of Canada) or 5MW (more than 60 miles from Canada).

Nope. 1 MW is tops for ALL stations in UHF.

This is average power as opposed to peak power used in analog NTSC. The difference is between 4-6 db, and depending on who you talk to, 8-10 db. So a 1 MW DTV station would be able to do 5 MW analog. So if there were a 5 MW DTV station would equate to a 10 MW analog station. That transmitter site would require its own substation. :D (Not really, but it's still a lot of power). The DTV transmitter has to be sized for the peak power of DTV so you have some headroom. Even a 1 MW DTV station has a good sized transmitter with good sized power consumption.

Originally posted by TV21CHIEF
Nope. 1 MW is tops for ALL stations in UHF.


The following ERPs are taken from the FCC engineering data base dated November 2003:

Chan City Call ERP (kW)

19 SHAKER WOIO 3720.000
23 AKRON WVPX 5000.000
25 CLEVE WVIZ 2140.000
43 LORAIN WUAB 4680.000
55 AKRON WBNX-TV 5000.000
61 CLEVE WQHS-TV 2000.000

Originally posted by techweb
The following ERPs are taken from the FCC engineering data base dated November 2003:

Chan City Call ERP (kW)

19 SHAKER WOIO 3720.000
23 AKRON WVPX 5000.000
25 CLEVE WVIZ 2140.000
43 LORAIN WUAB 4680.000
55 AKRON WBNX-TV 5000.000
61 CLEVE WQHS-TV 2000.000


Perhaps I misunderstood your statement. It's the digitals that are limited to 1 MW. These are all analogs. My apologies.

Is anyone with DirecTv hoping that we get the new CBS-HD feed tomorrow?

Well I tried the Terk TV 55 antenna and could not receive any VHF signal. I am going to put up an antenna outside this weekend and with my schedule more than likely it will be on Sunday morning. Hope I get lucky and everything works out and comes in for the game.

VStar: Good luck getting an antenna up this weekend with the weather we have been having. I still need to get my CM 9521a installed but with all the ice and snow, so far haven't had a chance.

what are our chances...
im hoping - but not likely

Say what you want I will get that antenna up Sunday. I have one of my installers from our store coming over Sunday morning. We are going to try and get it up on the roof. Worst case scenario we are going to mount the tripod to my deck in the back yard.

I need to get CBS I have twenty people coming over. I sure hope CBS Cleveland dose not screw up the broadcast.

I don't believe it. My old rotor I have on there now broke free of the ice that had it. I am now able to pull in KDKA in Pittsburgh and that means CBS which means SUPER BOWL!! I just hope that it holds true.

Best of luck to you, I hope it works for you.

Looks like I may luck out after all. The press release includes all those who receive "distant network signals". I am one og the lucky ones who was grandfathered in as I have had them since 95. I will let you know If channel 80 actually works tomorrow. We will see.


DIRECTV Delivers CBS HDTV Programming in Time for Super Bowl XXXVIII Broadcast
Local Channel and HD Package Subscribers have access to CBS HDTV via a Single Satellite Dish


El Segundo, CA Jan 26, 2004

WHAT: DIRECTV, Inc., provider of the nation's leading digital multichannel television service, today announced it will begin offering CBS high-definition television (HDTV) programming to its eligible customers on Friday, Jan. 30, in 17 markets where CBS owns and operates stations and nationwide for subscribers to CBS distant network signals.

Eligible customers who have the appropriate HD receiving equipment and subscribe to DIRECTV programming packages that include local channels, or the DIRECTV HD package, or receive CBS distant network signals, will have access to CBS HDTV programming that includes the Feb. 1 CBS presentation of Super Bowl XXXVIII and primetime hits like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and "Everybody Loves Raymond." Eligible DIRECTV customers will receive the live feed from (WCBS in New York) or (KCBS in Los Angeles) as part of their eligible programming package.

DIRECTV is the only digital satellite service offering CBS HDTV via a single dish and as an option for customers who may only subscribe to a high-definition channel package.

DIRECTV is supporting the addition of CBS HDTV to its high-definition programming lineup in (Market) with local advertising and promotions.

WHEN: Live broadcast begins Jan. 30, 2004




WHERE: DIRECTV Channel 80 (WCBS for customers in Eastern or Central time zones); or Channel 81 (KCBS for Pacific or Mountain time zones)

im not sure what you mean PArSONS... ive had d* for 5 years-- will i have any luck?? im down in munroe falls...

He has the distant network feeds and anyone with those will get the CBS-HD feed.

If anyone else got CBS, please post.

THanks,

Jim

I don't believe WOIO is an O&O so no one will get it without a waiver which I hear they never give.

Originally posted by danton3
im not sure what you mean PArSONS... ive had d* for 5 years-- will i have any luck?? im down in munroe falls...

Enter your address into:

http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp

If you don't show up getting a CBS level A or B signal, then you're in.

ok - thanks parson
doesnt look like ill be getting it ... sux

Danton3, Here is what I mean:
Several years ago when D* launched the network feeds, the only ones available were ABC, NBC and CBS from LA and NY. I lived in NJ at the time and worked for Sony with the TV group and was eligible to receive them. In 95 I moved to Chicago and then last year back here to Cleveland. D* indicated to me after both moves that I am "grandfathered in" on the distant network feeds. I will have them until I cancel them, even If I can get the locals. Lucky me I guess.

So, I checked this morning and sure enough CBSE on 80 and CBSW on 81. Looks like I am good to go for my Super bowl party.

Ironically, CBS is the best signal I get of the locals. I think it stinks that we all cant get the feeds. They should at least grant waivers until the signal improves locally.

WOIO refuses to give waivers. I spoke with the station manager and he said that it was corporate policy to not give out waivers.

Does anybody have any inside information as to why Time Warner Cable has not added WOIO-DT to their lineup of local digital channels? It has been over a year since they have begun carrying the digital locals. There must be some kind of major sticking point(money?) that is holding this up. Are ANY cable companies in NEO carrying WOIO's digital feed? Calling or sending emails to TWC is pointless. They will only tell you they are continuing to add channels, etc, etc, with no real information as to when or what the hold up is. Any info would be appreciated.
Steve

My Antenna installer just informed me that WOIO installed the wrong digital transmitter and have spent the past year and a half trying to make it work properly. Perhaps that might be one reason...

Hi everyone! (says the newbie)

It looks like Fox is the only O&O in Cleveland

ABC - WEWS is owned by Scripps Howard
CBS - WOIO is owned by Raycom Media
NBC - WKYC is owned by Gannett

BTW - I live in Solon and hooked up my Samsung 160 to my old roof antennas and get all locals fine (80% at least). Glad I never got rid of them.

Originally posted by SteveC
Does anybody have any inside information as to why Time Warner Cable has not added WOIO-DT to their lineup of local digital channels?

Steve,
You just have to know the right people. I have been told by someone very high up that they were supposed to be there by the SuperBowl. Both WOIO and WUAB are owned by Viacomm. They will be added together.

Funny thing is, I've talked with him this week about the audio problems on 624-640, but didn't ask about 19/43. I've got a message off to him now and will post his response.

Frank

Frank,
Thanks for the update. Do you know what the holdup has been? Why has it taken so long?
Steve

i use to get CBS HD with my terk55- now i dont get it all - i get ABC AND FOX at good strenghts.... any new good hd antenna out there.... everyone told me not to get the terk55 but ive definately gotten my moneys worth for the past year and a half...

I'm curious to ask you guys, I dont watch CBS much, their programming isnt really that good. Only thing I watch on CBS is sports. How has WOIO been doing the last few days? Audio problems? forget to throw the switch? Dropouts? Anyone been watching?

It was fine last night. I really don't have any problems picking it up. I've got a pretty good Winegard antenna with a rotor on the roof. Even when their signal strength is going up and down like a yo-yo, I'm usually still able to hold a lock with just a couple dropouts now and them. A friend of mine who lives down in N. Canton has an antenna in his attic. He told me he is able to get two digital channels. Before he told me which ones I thought it would probably be WJW(31) and WEWS(15). I was right on one, WJW. Believe it or not the other was WOIO. I could not understand how he could get WOIO and not WEWS. He is looking forward to watching the Super Bowl in HD.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
I'm curious to ask you guys, I dont watch CBS much, their programming isnt really that good. Only thing I watch on CBS is sports. How has WOIO been doing the last few days? Audio problems? forget to throw the switch? Dropouts? Anyone been watching?

Well considering that CSI, CSI Miami, Cold Case & Without a Trace are all top 15 shows, I'd say they have some good programming. They also have 3 others in the top 20. I enjoy all three of those shows quite a bit. Plus, the CSI shows are the best looking HD network shows out there.

It's all opinion, but to me, CBS is the most important HD channel.


-Todd

Todd yea they have good programming.

But I'm only 20 years old. I watch sports. My mom watches CBS all the time. Now I'm not saying your old cuz you watch CBS... actually that is what I am saying.

Just Joking :)

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Todd yea they have good programming.

But I'm only 20 years old. I watch sports. My mom watches CBS all the time. Now I'm not saying your old cuz you watch CBS... actually that is what I am saying.

Just Joking :)

No, I am old. HA! 36 feels older & older! :)

At any rate, if I was 20, I probably wouldn't be watching CBS drama shows either! As for HD, the CSI shows (especially Miami) look just amazing though. CBS Football looks the best as well. It's just too bad our WOIO has so many problems. The last few weeks the signal has stayed pretty steady though.

-Todd

The article below discusses some of the cable company issues with broadcasting local HDTV stations.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/business/7834474.htm

Last night I tried to get signal with a chanel master antenna. I went outside and tired to point it in the direction of the CBS transmiter. I got ABC FOX and UPN but not one bit of the CBS signal. What can I do ? I did have a pre amp connected and a deep fringe antenna.
I guess I am just SOL. I find it hard to believe that Painesville Twp. Is to far out.

You are only about 10 miles further than I am from the antenna so you should be able to get it. How high was the antenna and did you have a clear path in front of the antenna. Also did you try turning the antenna a little more west than the other antennas. Try to get it up a little, possible strap it to a ladder against the side of the house as a temporary install. Weather isn't suppose to be too bad until Monday.....

Three big prooblems that I can see. I live in a valley somewhat and I did not get the antenna up over 10ft also I have a heavily wooded back yard.
I did turn the antenna all directions and did not get even a blip of CBS signal.

I am at a loss I guess I just have to live with waiting until next year when the game is on fox. I can pick that up with a coat hanger.

VSTAR -

Have you considered a pure vertical antenna put way up in one of your trees? I Googled stuff on VHS antenna design and found the 1/4 wavelength for Channel 10 (193 MHz) is about 14". (14.52"). Two pieces of wire with an insulator between -o- and the lead-in tied center to one, shield to the other, then hoisted up a tree (or flagpole), just MIGHT give you el cheapo dipole. Just use nylon line or whatever to string it up on one end of the dipole. Maybe you will need 1/2 wave sections ... I've forgotten!

I'm considering this as an alternative, but may just settle for SD on the 60XBR --- it's ALMOST as good as HD, IMHO.

I have considered lots of things. My wife on the other hand thinks I am certifiably nuts. I also will more than likely settle on the SD signal.


After a half dozen Coronas the picture will look fine.

why do women think its nuts to try all this for HD, but they dont think it is nuts to own 60+ pairs of shoes?

Originally posted by SteveC
Frank,
Thanks for the update. Do you know what the holdup has been? Why has it taken so long?
Steve

Steve, over at the Programming forum here, there's a thread about TWC and CBS. Someone local says he got an email from TWC Northeast Ohio that indicated CBS would be added at 12:01 AM SUNDAY!!! Yet, I called sales this morning to get the scoop. I was told they were not adding any more channels this weekend. Way to get the word out to the sales crew!!!

If I had known they were adding it, I would have gotten the HD box for the game. Looks like I'm SOL.


Just called TWC customer service. He said NO CBS. Told the guy what I read on that other thread. He double checked with someone. Yes CBS. That was the first time he heard it. Nice communication guys.

I'm wondering if they kept it quiet to keep down the flood of new installs. ???

Originally posted by SteveC
Are ANY cable companies in NEO carrying WOIO's digital feed?

Wide Open West carries WOIO-DT - I have had it in Shaker Hts for a couple months now.

-- Paul

What, no Superbowl gripes? I figured this thread would be hopping after last night.

I didn't get to watch much of the game, but I was impressed that WOIO managed to carry the entire pre-game and game itself in HD. I did notice a few dropouts including at least two times when the box gave me a "no signal" for about a minute. But the signal strength was consistently good.

All-in-all, not too bad.

Oh yeah, that reminds me. VSTAR - nobody else on this thread has confirmed it to me that it happens to others, but here in Medina WOIO is at 0% strength much of the day (and some nights). Make sure you're testing your antenna at a time when you know that WOIO is broadcasting an HD signal.

Janets Ta Ta was nice to see in HD! ;)

I did try the antenna at night when they were broadcasting the signal. I did not receive any signal. I am going to wait until it warms up and I can really get out on the roof and try again.

Just got off the phone with Adlephia. Tell me how screwed up this is. The woman I spoke to stated that the HD system and hardware is in place however their computer system cannot accept the billing codes for the boxes and HD stations. Are you kidding me. They can't enter the billing codes so no HD for you right now. They are supposed to get a new computer in May and she said that right now they are not sure if it will accept the new system as well.

If you live in Cleveland or are billed out of Cleveland such as Chardon your OK. However the rest of us in lake county are screwed. We should let Aldelphia how unacceptable this is.

Speaking of Adelphia, the non-HD DVR came out today & is available. According to the woman I spoke to, it's the same price as the digital box is for 2 months, and then there is a DVR fee of about $5.50 bringing the total to $11.95. So basically you don't pay more for the box above what the digital box costs. I hope she's right & that there isn't an addition charge. The HD box will be available in the next 2-4 months from what they told me.

-Todd

update - In typical Adelphia fashion, my buddy stopped by & picked his DVR box up & they told him it was $14.95 total per month, not $11.95. The only think I can think of is that they charge more for your 1st box & he has only one so that might be why they told me $11.95 since it's my 2nd box. Either that or someone is wrong.

Since I went on the air last July I have received a few emails from people in the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area who noticed us. I'm just wondering if there's anyone in those areas that watch us. If you get the chance PM me with your location.

Why does WKYC split their signal in three channels? I guess I can see the weather radar display being useful, but I simply have no clue as to why channel 3-2 exists. Can anyone enlighten me?

I believe it is for people have 4:3 screens and want a full screen. I think it is very considerate of them since my HDTV is 4:3. :)

I had WOIO HD CBS (ch.541) on for the game from TWC but
as of today the channel is no longer listed on the guide.
Also, they added WNEO HD PBS (ch.549) but nothing on
the website is listed for PBS. Even more strange is they
listed WYTV HD ABC (ch.533) but again nothing is listed
on the guide!

Geesh...talk about confused...lol!

On a down note they will be charging $6.95 mo.
for InHD 1&2 and HDNet, HDNetMovies...bummer.

Permission was gotten from CBS by TWC nation-wide to carry the HD feeds for 24 hours during the SuperBowl. After that period, any TWC affiliate that did not have an existing CBS feed was to drop their transmission.

As for the channel listings on the website, they are color coded. Notice that color coding on the local channels is orange. There's a set of notes below that channel list that explains each color.

For orange:
Available at no cost to Digital customers, only in areas that also carry the regular broadcast station

Basically, if you don't get the analog feed of WYTV, you are not getting the digital.

For those with a little curiosity, the channel listing he is refering to is here (http://www.twcneo.com/dispatcher/products;jsessionid=0000KRPRDDSJYDFR3I5WOZW11HY:-1?category=11118&expand=Y&rootCategory=10385)

Frank

We had a great super bowl party with most of the guests raving about the picture. I am one of the lucky ones who got the national HD feed from CBS. We watched WOIO however because the picture was better. I fear that the D* offering was slightly compressed. All in all a nice job by CBS. Made for a nice party.

Just wondering, anyone check to see if Adelphia got the HD CBS feed. There was a rumor in another thread that it was going to happen in Pittsburgh. I read an article that Adephia's HD expenditures were more about staying within budget constraints. As in, they would like to expand quicker, but not at the risk of the bottom line. I dont know why someone just doesnt buy Adelphia. I have lived in 5 different markets as an adult and adelphia is by far and away the worst cable company I have ever encountered.

Anyway, whats next? March Madness in hd? Masters? NBA?

Well, Adelphia in Cleveland Heights showed no sign of having the "Two more HD channels at the end of January" that the installer mentioned in December. I even tried rebooting the STB. I'll stop by tomorrow at the Severance office and see if anyone knows from HD yet.

Cinemax and Starz will be on Adelphia sometime this month.

NBC will be showing the Daytona 500 in HD on Sunday, February 15th.


Originally posted by ParsonsBri

Anyway, whats next? March Madness in hd? Masters? NBA?

December 14th, NBC will show the Busch race at Daytona.

Has anyone heard if Adelphia has plans to add INHD & INHD2 to their channel lineup?

Thanks Frank,
I was thinking the guide was not being updated.
So hopefully CBS (WOIO) will be a permanent addition
some time soon. I see what your talking about on
the WYTV feed but shouldn't PBS be on there as well?

Overall the feed from WOIO was really nice for the game
to bad it was only a teaser...:(

I picked up the Sci. Atlanta DVR yesterday. If you have a "regular" box (non HD) you exchange and just use the new DVR. If you have the HD box you are to use both. I though I could just hook to coax as a loop from the HD to the DVR. However, the coax is not a "pass through" but only sends the signal on what is tuned on the HD box--make sense?

Does this mean the only way I can use both boxes is to get a splitter? I am a little worried about signal loss. Thanks for any info.

WOIO HD audio problems....

I have had problems getting decent audio from 19-1 since the middle of December. This occurs only with the HD program broadcasts. The sound is "tinny" and echoes (as if listening to a cheap old transistor radio from the '60's in a large ceramic-tiled room). Sometimes the audio is fine but most of the time it is awful. The other OTA HD is fine! (DirecTv HD audio is also fine.) It happens only with 19-1! From time to time, it is fine but that isn't often.

I use a roof mounted antenna with a clear "line-of-site" to the broadcast tower less than 8 miles away.

Very aggravating as it happens ONLY with the HD programming on 19-1!

Originally posted by panjj
I picked up the Sci. Atlanta DVR yesterday. If you have a "regular" box (non HD) you exchange and just use the new DVR. If you have the HD box you are to use both. I though I could just hook to coax as a loop from the HD to the DVR. However, the coax is not a "pass through" but only sends the signal on what is tuned on the HD box--make sense?

Does this mean the only way I can use both boxes is to get a splitter? I am a little worried about signal loss. Thanks for any info.

Yes you'll need a splitter. To ensure no signal loss, get a very high end splitter. I've found the Monster TGHZ-2RF 2-Way 2-Gigahertz Low Loss RF Splitter to be very nice & works well in situations where signal strength is an issue. They cost about $20.

The HD version of that DVR is reported to be coming in the next 2-4 months.

-Todd

!!!ENHANCED PROPAGATION!!! 5-Feb-04 13:23 EST.

I have never been impressed with the sensitivity of my F38310 with my attic mounted Channel master 77" antenna, but right now I have picked up 5 "new ones".
WFMJ 21 YTOWN 59.2 MILES
WNWO 24 TOL 87.5 MILES
WKBN 27 YTOWN 59.5 MILES
WAOH-LP 29 AKRON 26.2 MILES

With snow finally melted off the roof and perhaps some ducting
from this weather front to the south it looks like a good day to let the set auto-program.

I have had NO success with digital stations.

Dan

Originally posted by intermod
...but right now I have picked up 5 "new ones".


I have been getting Detroit the past few days. HD station 4-1,4-2 (45). This is supposed to be a summertime phenomenon.

Hi Comcast Group,

Just a heads up for Cleveland Comcast HDTV
subscribers. My Headend Tech at Comcast told me today that he hopes to have ABCHD and CBSHD up and running by the end of March. Just thought you would like to know.

Most of you already know that the firmware upgrade 7.07 was installed this week. This should activate DVI and 1394 Firewire ports.

Ben Music
Beta Tester:)

Hi again.

Just a quick note. I just had Adelphia out to help me figure out the deal with WKYC dropouts. Actually the technician was quite knowledgeable. After he figured out that I had a clue, he showed me how do get to the diagnostic mode to check signal strength. It turns out that the signal was right at the -20db threshold and fluctuating. We found a loose connector on the back of the wall plate and that got us up to -16db. Still not great, but well within acceptable. So now it works ok.

However, his visit did raise a few questions:
The cable runs in this house were all RG59 when built. He stated that was fine. I am wondering if installing quad shielded RG6 would improve on the
-16db loss. One way or another, I would like to find a way to minimize the loss.

I asked about additional channels. He said what we already know about Cinemax and StarZ (supposed to be soon). He said that it was his understanding that they are working hard on CBS, but $$ are a factor.
He had no other information.

He also stated that the HD DVR is being supported now and if a customer wanted to purchase the Scientific Atlanta now, it would work fine. It will be available in March to lease, but if one could buy it now, you are good to go. I don't know If I would make that investment. I wonder if you could even buy one.

Interesting.

OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA! :)

-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA! :)

-Todd

If the computer weren't so far from the TV, I'd do better at this. You have to press and hold two of the buttons on the STB. As I recall, one was at like 2:00 - 3:00. Sorry, but it's a start. There was a VERY elaborate menu, with frequencies etc. and something like Page 1 of 16 ...

Anyone from the Canton area? My friend brought his HDTV receiver over and we barely got any stations in at all. We got a Youngstown station and 3 religious stations on channel 17. All we used was an indoor antenna. I am wondering if using a better antenna will change anything, but I spoke with a sales rep at Circuit City and he told me Canton is known for not getting good reception and I may have no luck at all with HDTV. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Scott

what type of antenna are you using?

Originally posted by Dweezilz
OK, so when are you going to tell us how to get into the diagnostics of the Adelphia box? HA! :) To get into diagnostics screens:
1. Press and hold the Enter/Select button (the button in the middle of the arrow buttons) on the box (on the box, not the remote)
2. After about 5 seconds the mail light will come on
3. Let go of the Enter button
4. Press the Info button (again, on the box, not the remote)
5. A diagnostic screen will come on
6. Use the volume keys on the front of the box to scroll through the 18 pages of information.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
what type of antenna are you using?


Hi,

I'm using a channel master 3016. I just updated my profile to indicate that.

Dan

Has anyone had their Adelphia box reset the video format from Pass-Thru back to fixed on it's own? Today is the 3rd time that I've come home from work & the box has reset back to fixed & won't auto switch. I also noticed that the settings in the first settings menu for 480i or 1080i etc... is no longer there. The only category is the one that has Zoom / Normal. When I hit settings again & then set it to Pass-Thru, it auto switches again for a period of time. I ran through the wizard again & made sure I have it set to 480i & 1080i only, but the option to manually switch has not returned. I wonder if this box is defective?

-Todd

No, my box reset today too. It may be the main office doing something.

(Like adding new channels, don't we wish! :mad: )

hey ben i noticed today that my box has got the 7.07 firmware. Too bad i dont have a dvi tv. That will be awesome if we could get abc and cbs by the end of march.

I forgot to mention yesterday that the Adelphia dude said that the DVI ports should be working on all the boxes now and that they were activated with the most recent firmware upgrade. I dont know yet which version, but I am going to check and see.

As a follow up to the Sci Atl Exlorer 8000 HD (HD box w/DVR). It does not look like there is anyplace to buy one as a consumer. The fact that Adelphia will support one purchased privately is amzing to me.

Actually in their last price structure change, they indicated that consumers could get a discount for providing a regular digital box (non-HD). It's on the same level as the discount they give if you have your own cable modem. The problem obviously is that the digital boxes are much more expensive!

Anyone else not getting anything on WKYC?

Thanks,
Fred

I'm getting it through Adelphia.

WKYC remapped last night to 2-1 from 3-1 on my Zenith 520. I have no signal on 3-1 now but the 2-1 channel is coming in fine.

Noted the same thing last night when 3-1 suddenly had no signal. All the digital signals were coming in on 2-1, etc.

For most of the month of January, I was getting a pretty good signal from channel 19. Indeed, the Superbowl last weekend came in fine from beginning to end. But this week when I tried to watch some of the CBS shows, I found a weak signal that would drop out completely for lengthy periods. And then last night when I tried it, I got nothing at all - it was as if they weren't even on the air.

I wonder if 19 dropped back to a lower power level once they'd finished with the Superbowl broadcast. Anyone know anything about it? Has anyone else noticed the weaker signal this past week?

I have noticed that too, but with KDKA out of Pittsburgh. I wonder if they too, have dropped the level of their power. If that is the case, this is totally unacceptable.

Well, I'm going to try to watch the Grammy broadcast tonight on CBS. We'll see what happens.

Not to change the subject here but I'm looking for some info/advice.

I'm up the lake from Cleveland (East). I haven't gone HD yet but expect to REAL soon. Currently, I have Dish Network but am considering going to Adelphia Cable or Directv whichever.

Adelphia here says HD will be available in March/April with local stations. I have yet to see anything about DISH or Directv having HD locals. Anyone know if either will? ...and when?

I really don't want to go back to the old antenna/tower/rotor ---

BTW, Adelphia told me they will have a DVR receiver available and that HD locals will only be available in the evenings.(?!)

Living out here in the far 'burbs, we're always the last to get the "new stuff".

Thanks - lotsa good Northcoast stuff in this thread!

You should probably read some of the posts in this topic because we have talked about Adelphia a great deal. It first became available from them in the Cleveland area in late November.

As to the "evenings only" comment, that sounds like a clueless customer service representative. Most HD programs on local stations tend to be in the evenings, although their digital broadcasts are 24 hours a day. HBO and Showtime show HD films all the time.

Yes, they are about to offer DVRs for standard broadcasts, with an HD box promised later this year.

Adelphia just force fed the firmware upgrade to the SA 32xx HD set top box. This activates the DVI connector. The improvement in quality with DVI to the set (a Sony 60XBR950) is tangible. REALLY nice quality from HBO HD. I had been using component cables.

"I am wondering if using a better antenna will change anything, but I spoke with a sales rep at Circuit City and he told me Canton is known for not getting good reception and I may have no luck at all with HDTV. Any thoughts?"



I live in North Canton and use a Terk-55 antenna mounted on my deck. I get all the Cleveland stations except WKYC (NBC). I get NBC out of Youngstown on WFMJ. These are Digital channels. Really good antenna for 100 bucks. I do have to rotate it for better reception on some channels....but it's not too bad for now. I'm not allowed to have an antenna mast or large antenna mounted to my chimney due to neighborhood covenants.

Once again...Ignorant CC or BB salesfolk without a clue.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Well, I'm going to try to watch the Grammy broadcast tonight on CBS. We'll see what happens.

But they are seldom in HD. Are they suppose to be?

Yes, the Grammy Awards are supposed to be in HD.

No Grammy Awards Show in my house tonight. The opening number was absolutely awful. The audio, that is. Impossible. Even switching to the "just plain" stereo setting on the AV receiver was no help. This usually makes none musical shows bearable.

It's coming in ok for me. Audio dropouts are infrequent. Mono to surround and back to mono is what is bothering me.

Just switched back to take a look and the audio was not so bad. Don't know what has happened but ...

will watch now....

I don't know!!!

Originally posted by Oswald
I'm not allowed to have an antenna mast or large antenna mounted to my chimney due to neighborhood covenants.

FYI, there's a federal regulation that overrides any local municipality/HOA so-called "rules" regarding antenna installation. You have every right to install an antenna on your property to recieve OTA signals even if it's "ugly" to the neighbors.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

-- Paul

Well, the Grammy broadcast is coming in flawlessly. I still wonder whether channel 19 is bumping the power up and down depending on whether they think they're going to have a sizeable audience. The Superbowl and Grammy shows have been great, but during the week in between I've gotten a marginal signal at best. I guess we'll see what happens this coming week.

I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.

My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.

Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...

Rob

Originally posted by rgrizza
I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.

My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.

Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...

Rob

You aren't that far from the antenna so I don't know why you only have problems with channel 5.1 Maybe try a set of rabbit ears or if you can move the terk antenna. About a year ago CH 5 upgraded their transmitter and I havn't had any problem receiving it since.

Originally posted by rgrizza
I wish I'd found this thread a few weeks ago..... hindsight is 20/20. Either way: I finally got a HDTV receiver, DirecTV HD package and (unfortunately) Terk TV44 antenna. Hooked everything up over the weekend and WOW is high definition unbelievable.

My one problem that i was hoping I could get some ideas on: I get every OTA station digital except WEWS (5-1 ABC) -- I get 0% signal strength (I'm in University Heights - just east of Cleveland). Am I screwed because of the crappy antenna for this station? All other stations get 70+% and come in great.

Any help appreciated for this HD rookie...

Rob

I'm in Cleveland Hts., near Cedar-Fairmount. Get 5-1 as strong as any OTA (8 and either 19 or 43, I forget). Using an amplified set-top antenna. Have never gotten 3-1.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I still wonder whether channel 19 is bumping the power up and down depending on whether they think they're going to have a sizeable audience. The Superbowl and Grammy shows have been great, but during the week in between I've gotten a marginal signal at best. I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. And tonight tends to confirm my suspicions - when I tuned in for CSI, I got no signal at all. I checked again about 10 minutes later and found signal, but it kept breaking up and dying on me. I eventually gave up on it - it became unwatchable. Is anyone else having the same experience?

A simple observation for what it's worth:
Grammy Audio - I switched back and forth between the local feed and CBSE HD feed on D* and it seemed to me that the audion issues were network related as they were consistent between the two channels. So at least this time, not WOIO's fault in my opinion.

NBC- watched Las Vegas last night and the video is just not as good as CBS or even ABC programming. I dont know if that is an Adelphia issue or just a poor job by NBC.

Originally posted by ParsonsBri
NBC- watched Las Vegas last night and the video is just not as good as CBS or even ABC programming. I dont know if that is an Adelphia issue or just a poor job by NBC.


It was sent by NBC in SD.

I am new to HDTV. Last week, I finally got a Zenith HDV420 tuner.

One problem that I have is the volume on WKYC is approximately 5dB lower than the other channels. This is not a problem when I watch via the analog channels.

Does anyone have any ideas or noticed this?

rgrizza: I'm also in University Heights near John Carroll and also new to HDTV. After lurking here and elsewhere and consulting antennaweb.org, I tried a medium directional Channel master antenna in the attic (very inexpensive and off the shelf from Lowe's), without an amplifier, pointed toward Parma. After one directional adjustment to be able to bring in Fox, I can pick up all OTA Cleveland channels without a problem (completed install the day before the Super Bowl). I'd guess your Terk just isn't working for ABC, but that's odd given my experience and those of several others here that ABC has one of the better OTA signals.

ParsonsBri: I second your comments about NBC (2-1), and think it might be Adelphia. TV21CHIEF says it was sent SD last night, but my OTA PQ through my Samsung receiver viewing 2-1 still was much better than the Adelphia signal on 703 (or 3). I was switching back and forth last night and wondering whether my difference was in the connections (I'm using component from the Adelphia box and DVI from the OTA box) or the cable run to my home. I think the cable run from Adelphia is split sufficiently that I'm just not getting top quality. Now that I can compare SD OTA (WB, anyone?) with the same SD on Adelphia, the OTA is much, much better quality than what I get from Adelphia. I'll be moving to D* soon once the new HD D*Tivo is available, and keeping my antenna for the locals.

Lastly, thanks to all who have contributed here. I have learned a great deal from you all, and it made my install and set-up trouble free and, sort of, worry free.

Originally posted by paule123
FYI, there's a federal regulation that overrides any local municipality/HOA so-called "rules" regarding antenna installation. You have every right to install an antenna on your property to recieve OTA signals even if it's "ugly" to the neighbors.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

-- Paul

Thanks for the information. You guys are great!

gnalmij, you're right around the corner from me! I can almost throw a rock and hit JCU -- small world.

I think I'll try moving the antenna a little (it's dish-mounted, so I can only rotate it a few inches around the dish). If that doesn't work, maybe I'll give a channel master antenna a shot. At least I have 8 months to get ABC working before Monday Night Football starts up again :)


I tried an inline amplifier (suggested by terk) and it must have been broken because I didn't get a single HD OTA station with it installed... The satellite channels still worked though.

Thanks for the advice northeast ohioans!

Originally posted by rgrizza
I tried an inline amplifier (suggested by terk) and it must have been broken because I didn't get a single HD OTA station with it installed... The satellite channels still worked though.



You're too close to all the transmitters. The preamp gets overloaded and you won't get anything. With RF, a big signal can't be made bigger.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
And tonight tends to confirm my suspicions - when I tuned in for CSI, I got no signal at all. I checked again about 10 minutes later and found signal, but it kept breaking up and dying on me. I eventually gave up on it - it became unwatchable. Is anyone else having the same experience?

CSI was perfect for me last night. Audio was great (Dish fixed the 811 bug) & no dropouts at all here in Twinsburg. Not sure what the problem could be for you. Sometimes depending on location, one day provides for great reception & poor the next. I wish I knew what could help your signal.

-Todd

I compared NYPD Blue on Adelphia HD vs. OTA. They don't look exactly the same in color is what I found. The color was slightly 'bluer' on Adelphia if that makes sense. Also a bit more saturated for some reason. OTA seemed to have a bit more detail in the picture & seemed to have less grain. The differences were SLIGHT & not obvious. Without looking back to back it would be difficult to tell I think. I had to keep switching back & forth dozens of times to really detect what the differneces were. Overall, I felt the OTA was ever so slightly more detailed & crisp, but if the Adelphia was all I had, the difference in PQ wasn't a show stopper. I would pick OTA if I had the choice however, but for convience, Adelphia is fine. My NBC is difficult to pull in OTA on some days, so Adelphia has helped me quite a bit on that end now that it seems their signal is more stable.

-Todd

It's been quiet here, so I guess it's time to bring up a favorite topic. Anybody hear any concrete information about new HD channels from Adelphia? Rumor had Starz and Cinemax, but we're now halfway through the month of February and so far nothing.

Those of us who signed up at the introductory rate when they first started offering HD are now paying full price for our HD boxes. The frustration is getting greater...

FYI, I got my first bill from WOW with HD service on it, and they are charging $6.99/mo for the HD receiver, contrary to what I was told over the phone some 3 months ago. Now I have to call and bitch since the basic digital cable package ($50.99/mo.) is supposed to include a basic receiver and the installer took that away when he swapped in the HD box...

Other than the gripe about the $6.99 thing, the HD service has been perfect so far.

-- Paul

jtscherne-

Where are you in Shaker? I grew up on Parkland Dr. across from the golf course (Shaker Hts. CC?) back in the 60's and early 70's until we moved to Colorado to get away from the school bussing issues going on then. My dad was a doctor at St. Lukes and I went to Fernway....

I miss going to the old stadium to see the tribe and Browns play back in the day (Leroy Kelly!)

Off topic I think but don't know where else to post this. Is there a resource for Cleveland cable and or satellite providers, their HD offerings and overall prices? The sea is endless when searching for cable and HD combinations at an affordable price.

Anyone care to help out a soon to be HD subscriber??

Paul, you mentioned WOW HD service has been perfect. What HD channels are they currently offering and have they scheduled any additions that you are aware of?

Thanks.

Originally posted by rlb
Paul, you mentioned WOW HD service has been perfect. What HD channels are they currently offering and have they scheduled any additions that you are aware of?


WOW HD channels are CBS,NBC,ABC,FOX,HBOHD. They said they were working on ESPNHD "real soon now", but I suspect most of these cable companies are going to take their time until next football season. I've asked about InHD, Discovery and HDNet, but heard nothing back.

As a side note, I was looking at Cox Cleveland's channel lineup and they have an amazing number of HD channels - only missing NBC. I don't think anyone here has chimed in here with Cox HD service?

-- Paul

Daytona 500 Cleveland viewers - Is anybody else noticing slight motion artifacts in the HD shots, especially the 180mph "in your face" cams mounted to the fence in the curves? I also see very brief pixelation on major scene changes, like from full screen graphics to the race.

I sure would like to know if we can blame WKYC for not dedicating full bandwidth to the event.

-- Paul

Good question. I am using a channelmaster stealthtenna with my Samsung DirecTv tuner. I feel the quality isn't quite as good as it could be. I've been seeing pixelation in the sceen changes. I have just recently moved to Cleveland from Oklahoma City and I tweeked my antenna to receive 100% signal quality before the race. I'm disappointed in all the dropouts I get every few minutes. Can you fill me in on what the problem is? I've been searching the site and noticed that many people have this problem (except most complaints seems to be with adelphia?). I also noticed that when I first moved I received signal 3-1... now I only receive 2-1.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

PS. I'm living in Garfield Heights

Originally posted by quern
Good question. I am using a channelmaster stealthtenna with my Samsung DirecTv tuner. I feel the quality isn't quite as good as it could be. I've been seeing pixelation in the sceen changes. I have just recently moved to Cleveland from Oklahoma City and I tweeked my antenna to receive 100% signal quality before the race. I'm disappointed in all the dropouts I get every few minutes. Can you fill me in on what the problem is? I've been searching the site and noticed that many people have this problem (except most complaints seems to be with adelphia?). I also noticed that when I first moved I received signal 3-1... now I only receive 2-1.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

PS. I'm living in Garfield Heights

I'm surprised you got 100% signal on the Samsung. When I had my Sammy T165 hooked up, I got 0% or 50%, nothing in between, and nothing more than 50%. I now watch all HD on cable now so I don't have to fight with all antenna gymnastics anymore. There was no rhyme or reason to antenna placement, season, weather, phases of the moon, etc. Very frustrating dealing with OTA reception. The best I ever got was a silver sensor in a 3rd floor window just ever so carefully perched on a dresser. Move it one inch one way or the other and it was a crapshoot what channel would die. I was about to fashion an outdoor chimney mount for the silver sensor, but cable saved me.

If your antenna is not outdoor, you probably need to get one, or get your indoor antenna as high as possible and connected with a good quality RG6 coax. There is debate over whether any of the local digital stations are broadcasting full power yet. With WKYC-DT being on the lowest VHF channel, 2, that doesn't help either. Others have noticed the weirdness with the channel changing numbers from 3-1 to 2-1 and back again.


-- Paul

The race looks like a VCD most of the time for me.

I watched some of it, but thru WFJM in Youngstown. The race looked fine to me, looked really good as a matter of fact. Maybe it was something with WKYC not allocating enough b/w.

Sorry for the loss of HD with 15 to go. Those brekups locked my satellite receiver up and I had to reboot it. Murphy's Law strikes again.

I opened my encoder up to 17 MB on Friday.

Cox Cable carries the following hd channels:
ABC WEWSDT
CBS WOIODT
UPN WUABDT
HBOHD
SHOHD
ESPNHD
BravoHD plus
INHD 1
INHD2
DVD Discovery Channel

I was thinking of going with Cox but Dish had some decent offereings too. I'm wondering if anyone has comments of Dish HD?

I was watching the race on TWC HD and was getting frequent signal breakup on both the video and audio. Also, as some noted, the picture wasn't the same high quality I get from other sources such as INHD and HDNet. And yes, I did notice the track-level cameras moving when the pack roared by.

But the free preview on the NASCAR in-car channels was neat, albeit in SD only.

Paul, thanks for the response regarding WOW's HD lineup. Another question is which cable box are they providing?
Thanks again.

Originally posted by rlb
Paul, thanks for the response regarding WOW's HD lineup. Another question is which cable box are they providing?
Thanks again.

The box is SA 3250HD. Firewire and DVI ports are not enabled yet.

Originally posted by TV21CHIEF
I opened my encoder up to 17 MB on Friday.

Great job! You are doing so much better than WKYC. In fact, you have all the Cleveland stations beat. Keep up the good work.

For those of you who have been complaining about WKYC. I just spoke to their chief engineer and yes for the past week they have been having numerous drop outs. This was due to new PSIP software being used. They think that as of today the problem should be resolved. If not he asked that you call the station. They want to help.

As the official Wide Open West cheerleader :D in this thread, I have just learned that WOW plans to add the following HD channels on March 23. Text of email from customer service follows:

In regard to new HD channels, we are adding new HD channels on March 23rd. the information is below:

CINEMAX HD: With the same programming schedule as CINEMAX, CINEMAX HD shows films in a wide screen format (16 x 9, 1080i). Approximately 70% of the titles will be in true HD format and the rest are converted to HD format prior to airing.

Discovery HD Theater: Offered as part of the HD Pak, Discovery HD Theater offers stunning programming about nature, travel, geography, science & technology and world culture in the format they should be viewed in - high definition. With 24/7 high definition content, Discovery offers a world-class HDTV experience.

ESPN HD: With the same programming schedule as ESPN, ESPN HD offers a minimum of 4 live sporting events/week in true HD format. The remainder of the programming can be enjoyed on an HDTV as it is converted to HD prior to airing. Beginning in the spring/summer timeframe, ESPN will offer most studio-produced content (i.e. Sports Center) in true HD, following the completion of a new digital media center in Connecticut.

HDNet: HDNet features a variety of programming including live sports (NHL, MLS, CART, pro and college basketball and football, tennis, horse racing and boxing), sitcoms, dramas, action series, documentaries, travel programs and more. With a variety of programming in HD format 24 x 7, HDNet is a great network to enjoy the video quality of an HDTV.

HDNet Movies: Featuring films and other programs from the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, either produced in HD format or converted to HD. Titles are a mix of theatrical releases, made-for-TV movies and independent films.


The above channels are in addition to current HD lineup: HBOHD and the locals CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX.

-- Paul

Originally posted by rlockshin
For those of you who have been complaining about WKYC. I just spoke to their chief engineer and yes for the past week they have been having numerous drop outs. This was due to new PSIP software being used. They think that as of today the problem should be resolved. If not he asked that you call the station. They want to help.

New HD using Samsung 160 and new Wineguard, pulling 93% digital signal strength on WKYC and then 1 to 3 second dropouts with 0 to 60% momemtary signal, for last week or so. I too called station and an engineer said it was news to them, nice guy but no help. What is the story? Do you think I need to try to give this Samsung 160 back to D* and try for another box or another brand less prone to dropouts? Or is it one of those "they all do that sir" type problem, and I gotta watch the sat or analog feed? Seems a shame, big image quality difference but unwatchable with 10 to 25 drop outs per hour.
Thanks for any ideas...

Sportsracer, please read my prior post. I dealt with the chief engineer and he was quite aware of the proble,. As of Monday night it was fixed

I checked out WOIO (CBS) and WEWS (ABC) from the 8:30 to 9:00 shows and none of them were in 5.1. So I checked another CBS and ABC affiliate (Youngstown area) and they both were in 5.1. Was this a mishap on WOIO and WEWS or is this common?

Originally posted by hoops10
I checked out WOIO (CBS) and WEWS (ABC) from the 8:30 to 9:00 shows and none of them were in 5.1. So I checked another CBS and ABC affiliate (Youngstown area) and they both were in 5.1. Was this a mishap on WOIO and WEWS or is this common?

None of the local Cleveland channels broadcast 5.1 audio.

rlockshin, you may be right. Less drop outs today. Spoke to D* and they are exchanging the Samsung 160 for new unit, maybe another 160 or the new 360. That may or may not be good depending on the box after reading the bugs on the 360 thread in hardware. Anybody in the area have Samsung 160 vs 360 experience?

Originally posted by paule123
The box is SA 3250HD. Firewire and DVI ports are not enabled yet.

If this is the Adelphia HD box you are speaking of, according to an earlier post (I haven't checked it myself), the DVI port on this box has been enabled for a few weeks via a software update they sent.

-Todd

I tried to watch NCS last night on WOIO and got constant dropouts. WKYC switched to 3.1 again. Every time I try to watch WKYC I have to rescan the receiver because of the switch between 2.1 and 3.1. It seems like Cleveland HDTV is getting worse.

Noob question for all you HDTV veterans: does WJW Fox 8 boost their digital OTA signal when they are broadcasting a Widescreen Digital show? Last night, I tried to watch 24 and for the first couple of minutes, I got a very weak signal -- flipping between 0 and 30 percent or so, absolutely unwatchable. All of a sudden, it jumped up to 60-90 percent and the show came in great. The moment it ended and the news came one, the signal dropped again and I had to watch the news on their analog broadcast. Does that make sense?

Originally posted by Dweezilz
If this is the Adelphia HD box you are speaking of, according to an earlier post (I haven't checked it myself), the DVI port on this box has been enabled for a few weeks via a software update they sent.

-Todd

Sorry, I was getting tired of putting WOW! Cable in all my posts - I was referring to WOWs SA 3250HD box - no DVI or firewire there yet.

-- Paul

I live in Lorain and I would like to know if a cheap radio shack roof top antenna will be adequate for me or not. I live approx. 30 miles from a broadcast, all of the channels are within the 103-120 degree range and I already have a receiver. thanks for any help

It depends on how cheap. I am about the same distance as you only north east. I use a RS VU-190 and it works fine.