Re Reading this would make sense, however you still need a number to punch in, to get to Digital 5 you still need to punch in 15... only makes sence for 5 to call themselves 15... so the V Channel you would punch in,,, ie if ABC was still on 15 here, & ABC's nationwide virtual channel was 4, punching in 04 would take you to channel 15 transparently??

That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.

It's doubtful that ABC (or any affiliate) would have a nation wide virtual channel because of the number of markets that can receive more than one ABC affiliate.

Channel remapping exists for a number of reasons, but I believe the strongest reason is so no matter what channel a certain affiliate ends up broadcasting on, they can continue to use the branding they've been using for years.

Will WVIZ-DT ever power up their digital signal?? They must have a double-A battery in their transmitter at the moment.

I'm in south Akron and WVIZ analog is one of my best stations, actually, but their digital signal gives nary a blip for me. I am 8 mi from WEAO so I can already get PBS OTA, and granted, what little PBS I do watch I usually can see on WEAO, but it would still be nice to get WVIZ too since they have different programming.

Hookbill:
Can your S3 play m2t or HD-WMV files through the network connection?

JJK

Hookbill:
Can your S3 play m2t or HD-WMV files through the network connection?

JJK

No. I'm not sure what m2t is but right now the only files I can play through the network are music files and downloaded pictures.

HD-WMV I doubt they will allow when they do open up TiVo to Go for the S3. Right now we are hoping we can just move our HD recordings to our computers but that depends on what cablelabs decides. And because it's being controlled by cable labs that's why I doubt HD-WMV will be allowed.

That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.

All the channels that I receive OTA broadcast their call letters and some even have short descriptions of the subs that they are broadcasting. Once my tuner has the mapped channel information I just enter in the mapped number (3.1, 5.1, 49.2) that I want and never need to know the actual broadcast channel.

WKYC's stretch-o-vision has truly come to an end. Dr. Phil has lost 70 lbs. overnight !!!!

Amazing. What will they do next? Drop the useless whether subs and allocate full bandwith to HD?

Will WVIZ-DT ever power up their digital signal?? They must have a double-A battery in their transmitter at the moment.

I'm in south Akron and WVIZ analog is one of my best stations, actually, but their digital signal gives nary a blip for me. I am 8 mi from WEAO so I can already get PBS OTA, and granted, what little PBS I do watch I usually can see on WEAO, but it would still be nice to get WVIZ too since they have different programming.

I'm also looking forward to the time when WVIZ powers up. I'm hoping to see the PBS HD channel 24/7, just like when WEAO had it. I really enjoyed the nature and travel programs in HD. I don't really care for the channels that WEAO airs at the moment. I'm not among the old audience who watches the Lawrence Welk show. There are very few programs on those channels that I currently watch, but PBS HD was nice.

I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.

I'm also looking forward to the time when WVIZ powers up. I'm hoping to see the PBS HD channel 24/7, just like when WEAO had it. I really enjoyed the nature and travel programs in HD. I don't really care for the channels that WEAO airs at the moment. I'm not among the old audience who watches the Lawrence Welk show. There are very few programs on those channels that I currently watch, but PBS HD was nice.

I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.

WEAO had HD at one time?? I do like the subchannel 1 that shows a lot of cooking shows, but I'd rather have HD.

Will they bring it back?

WEAO had HD at one time?? I do like the subchannel 1 that shows a lot of cooking shows, but I'd rather have HD.

Will they bring it back?

Yes, WEAO-DT and WNEO-DT aired the 24/7 PBS HD channel when they both started broadcasting OTA (WNEO started about a year before WEAO). They had PBS HD on subchannel 1 and their analog broadcast in SD on subchannel 2. They stopped that, and so I emailed the engineer at the station. He told me that it was a money issue that they stopped airing the HD. I forget the whole reason, but I was told that it will eventually return. The HD channel was nice to have.

Just got a letter from WOW saying basic digital cable is going up $6 a month to $62.99 / mo. Add to that $9.99 for the HDPak, and $12.99/mo for the HD DVR. No premium movie channels other than STARZ in that package. (STARZ is "free" on WOW)

I can't wait until ATT U-Verse service starts around here to give these guys some pricing competition.

Will Verizon bring FiOS here?

Will Verizon bring FiOS here?

Nope. This is SBC (now ATT) territory.

Nope. This is SBC (now ATT) territory.

I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get. :)

I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get. :)

I looked into what Windstream was all about, and I've read mostly horror stories with installation, billing, and performance. There's threads about them over on broadbandreports.com

I'm in Windstream territory which puts me even farther out of the picture. I wish I was in AT&T territory. I think it would solve my 911 issue with Vonage. And that's as far off topic as I can get. :)
Where is Windstream's territory? I see their commercials on TV, it appears that they are doing the same thing AT&T is doing (bundling Dish Network with phone & DSL service). The only phone companies I'm aware of in the Cleveland DMA are AT&T (formerly SBC/Ameritech/Ohio Bell), Verizion (fromerly GTE) Alltel (formerly Western Reserve/Mid Continent), and Century Tel.

Where is Windstream's territory? I see their commercials on TV, it appears that they are doing the same thing AT&T is doing (bundling Dish Network with phone & DSL service). The only phone companies I'm aware of in the Cleveland DMA are AT&T (formerly SBC/Ameritech/Ohio Bell), Verizion (fromerly GTE) Alltel (formerly Western Reserve/Mid Continent), and Century Tel.

Here ya go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windstream_Communications

"Windstream Communications is the result of a spinoff-merger of Alltel's wireline (local telephone) business with that of Valor Telecom. The company was named on April 10, 2006, and began operations on July 17, 2006."

I looked into what Windstream was all about, and I've read mostly horror stories with installation, billing, and performance. There's threads about them over on broadbandreports.com

Which is why I don't use them for anything. TV and internet is TW, phone is Vonage, and cell is Verizon. 3 different bills from 3 different companies, and I'm just fine with it. :)

I'm beginning to wonder why Cleveland is lacking a full-power digital PBS station, considering that it's such a large DMA. I know they have tower issues, but there's been plenty of years to work those out.

The tower issues are actually more legal/political than technical. And they have some very sharp engineers there. It will take as long as it takes and no longer.
:)

I Have had Windstream DSL for about 5 months now without any problems. The bill is one with the land line phone. The only install problem that people should be aware of is the kit comes with 4 filters which are not enough (needed about 10). Each filter costs $8.40. On the phone they said it's easier to go with the whole house filter mounted on the outside of the house. ($19.95). I said ok and done deal. The lead in from the filter is tied to the two unused wires on the phone lines so you can pick it up anywher in the house with a split adapter. I turn mine on & off every day no problem, it syncs up before the computer gets out of the SCSI boot post.

JJK

Will Verizon bring FiOS here?
Perhaps, in the few areas that they serve as the local telco (mostly Medina County and surrounding areas into Lorain and Summit - but not in AT&T or Windstream areas).

I emailed WKYC about their Akron/Canton news, and I asked why they don't air it on their subchannel 3-2. They never answered me, and that was months ago that I asked.

It's a shame in my opinion that WOAC is going to waste. It looks like it used to have some decent programming about 20 years ago. There may be a portion of Cleveland that speaks other languages, but I'm sure that most of the people who will be watching this new channel can speak English to a certain extent anyways. After all, they should be able to speak English if they live here, or else how would they be able to get by without speaking English!! As a result, the 99% or more of this area who can speak English will lose out. We continue to be without a true independent outlet, and yet we let a good high-power station go to waste. But then again, maybe, just maybe something good will happen.

I emailed WKYC about their Akron/Canton news, and I asked why they don't air it on their subchannel 3-2. They never answered me, and that was months ago that I asked.

Something I've read about this recently online:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/11/some-stuff-weve-put-off.html


Why can't new TWC subscribers in Summit County watch the WKYC/3-produced, TWC-sponsored "Akron/Canton News" with Eric Mansfield?

We asked the question directly to TWC's local spokesman, Bill Jasso, and here's his response:

We hope to make our "Akron/Canton News" available to a wider audience in the future. Right now are faced with three separate cable systems (Time Warner, Adelphia, Comcast) that need to become one network. Once that happens (hopefully by Spring) we can begin to explore advantages like that.


As to your specific question, "WeatherPlus" is designed to run 24/7. There's nowhere to "put" the Akron/Canton newscast on 3.2. I don't think they can even sub the video so it doesn't rotate to the various weather elements.

It's a shame in my opinion that WOAC is going to waste. It looks like it used to have some decent programming about 20 years ago. There may be a portion of Cleveland that speaks other languages, but I'm sure that most of the people who will be watching this new channel can speak English to a certain extent anyways. After all, they should be able to speak English if they live here, or else how would they be able to get by without speaking English!! As a result, the 99% or more of this area who can speak English will lose out. We continue to be without a true independent outlet, and yet we let a good high-power station go to waste. But then again, maybe, just maybe something good will happen.

Here's another one that is within my range according to the FCC Maps (Yeah Right) ... I guess I'm not missing anything, is this converting from a Shopping Channel to Univision or Telemundo?

Here's another one that is within my range according to the FCC Maps (Yeah Right) ... I guess I'm not missing anything, is this converting from a Shopping Channel to Univision or Telemundo?

Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.

Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.

Just got a letter from WOW saying basic digital cable is going up $6 a month to $62.99 / mo. Add to that $9.99 for the HDPak, and $12.99/mo for the HD DVR. No premium movie channels other than STARZ in that package. (STARZ is "free" on WOW)

I can't wait until ATT U-Verse service starts around here to give these guys some pricing competition.

Keep feeding them... when did Television become just another utility?

Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.

Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.

:rolleyes: hmmm ever since Uni took over 61 the signal got better out here in the fringes, there is a high Mexican population in Painesville, Madison & Geneva, I wonder if that means WOAC will increase their range, according to the map they just miss Painesville, but I'm within the range but just don't pick this one up either...... Oh that's right they all have cable!

That's where auto scanning comes in. That way the TV can find the channels for you and you don't have to be the wiser as to what the original channel assignment is.

It's doubtful that ABC (or any affiliate) would have a nation wide virtual channel because of the number of markets that can receive more than one ABC affiliate.

Channel remapping exists for a number of reasons, but I believe the strongest reason is so no matter what channel a certain affiliate ends up broadcasting on, they can continue to use the branding they've been using for years.

I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?

What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then. :)

When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.

I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?

What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then. :)

When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.

Once I think about it, I highly doubt that all network affiliates will be branded the same remapped channel number. This wouldn't work because CBS for example can be picked up from WKBN and WOIO here in NE Ohio.

When I allow my TV to do a scan for all digital and analog channels available, it misses several available channels. This is because I can't point my directional antenna in all the varying directions of the transmitters. That's why the viewer must have some knowledge of the actual channel number that the digital signal is broadcasting on in order to manually program those into the TV.

I still have to punch 28 fo get to the ATSC WUAB, but right, the set tells me I'm on 43-2 (it goes to the subs) .. punching 43 yields me the NTSC 43 Analog.... unless this perticular set does it this way?

What's in a number anyway, just eliminate channel numbers as they are now becoming meaningless. I kind of like the virtual channel number idea then. :)

When I put this set in auto program, it seems to program in a channel 27 for some reason although there is nothing there, I get a snowy picture on 32, & 51, yet the set ignores these signals.On my E* 921 if I happen to have an analog station scanned into the guide punching in "43" would go to the analog. However I have the option to delete the analogs from the guide, punching "43" gives me "043-01" (btw: 43.2 is The Tube). I do keep several analogs in my guide. WFMJ, for instance 21.0 is analog (the ".0" is not seen in the guide but that is it's official designation in the ATSC rules). When I hit "21" I get the analog (since the digital is not 24/7 out here, while when I hit "27" I get 27.1 since I have no need for the analog WKBN (and it does not come in well enough to watch while the digital is virtually 24/7).

Perhaps if you entered 43.1 (if there is a "." on your remote) you would not have to enter 28. On my 921 entering "04302" gives me The Tube.

Not Univision - that's Channel 61 (30 DT) WQHS.

Probably Telemundo. To serve the 11 Spanish-speaking people in NE Ohio that don't get WQHS.


I wish there was UnivisionHD... :D

I finally did it!!

I got WKBN-DT to lock in Akron!

After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts. I swear, a gust of wind will probably knock it off!!

Can't get WFMJ to save my life though. Even though Antennaweb says I can.

If I could cut down my neighbor's trees I could probably get WFMJ-DT too. Or erect a 75 foot tower. But since I don't own this house, I won't bother with all that.

I get 27 analog rather well. I can get 21 but my antenna points SOUTH at best reception instead of ESE...I think partly because of the trees in the way. Analog 21 crackles a lot with ghosting when the antenna is in the same spot that is optimum for both analog 27 and digital 41/virtual 27.

Would some type of preamp or amplifier make enough difference for me to lock onto WFMJ?

If I could cut down my neighbor's trees I could probably get WFMJ-DT too. Or erect a 75 foot tower. But since I don't own this house, I won't bother with all that.

I get 27 analog rather well. I can get 21 but my antenna points SOUTH at best reception instead of ESE...I think partly because of the trees in the way. Analog 21 crackles a lot with ghosting when the antenna is in the same spot that is optimum for both analog 27 and digital 41/virtual 27.

Would some type of preamp or amplifier make enough difference for me to lock onto WFMJ?

An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.

Just noticed that KYC is having a web chat with some technical director at KYC tonight at 6:30 regarding HD questions. So if anybody wants to ask about the stretch-o-vision or anything, now's your chance!

Link is here. (http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=60631)

An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.

I don't think an indoor antenna will do much good. I only have one east-facing window and it faces right into my neighbor's aluminum siding.

An amplifier definitely helps me here in Akron, so give it a try. Without it, I don't get any trace of a Youngstown station at all. I would also recommend the silver sensor with amplifier. It may be an indoor antenna, but it may give you more flexibility in finding that sweet spot for WKBN-DT. Just aim it out a window, and try to minimize any obstructions caused by the house. I can't get a picture from WKBN-DT where I'm at, but I'm half-way down the east side of the Cuyahoga Valley and I still get a blip on the signal indicator. Good luck.

I found a decent 10 degree area I can get WKBN just dandy. However, I tried WFMJ at every little position in that 10 degree area and nothing.

At my old place I could get WTOV analog out of Steubenville and can't do that anymore, either. However, I was about 100 feet higher in elevation there. This was before the days of digital TV but I could get a nearly crystal-clear reception of 21 and 27 off my roof antenna there, and 33 was snowy but watchable. This was also in the Ellet area.

Where I'm at now, 21 is somewhat snowy, but watchable, as is 27. 33 has no discernable sound but shadowy, snowy color picture.

This morning I was getting a black and white snowy picture from WICU in Erie.

This morning I was getting a black and white snowy picture from WICU in Erie.

So was I on my rabbit ears upstairs, must have been Ideal conditions, was actually clear out, unusual for December here so close to the lake.

I finally did it!!

I got WKBN-DT to lock in Akron!

After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts. I swear, a gust of wind will probably knock it off!!

Can't get WFMJ to save my life though. Even though Antennaweb says I can.


Antenna Web, a site??

I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.

Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.
Much Higer.

Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.

Antenna Web, a site??

I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.

Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.
Much Higer.

Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.

Ohio seems to have a dislike for repeater/translator stations, too. I find it odd that over the years they never put in repeaters in New Philadelphia/Dover, or Mansfield, or up in your neck of the woods. Well, I know WVIZ and WDLI have them up there, but never the major affiliates. I don't mean now in the cable age, but they never had them, IIRC.

BTW does anyone know if people have been successful with HDTV OTA in Tuscarawas County?

Antenna Web, a site??

I Think just about anything other than CFPL from my area is a lost cause, I'm just too far below the ridge.

Always wondered why the transmitters were located all in Seven Hills/Parma, one would think Chardon with a NW directioal beam would be much better transmitter locations for the area.
Much Higer.

Seems I'm just stuck with my basic networks out of Cleveland, & soon will be losing 19 too.Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).

Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.

At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.

Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.

Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.

I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.

Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).

Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.

At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.

Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.

Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.

I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.

I think you could put ALL Of them in Richfield, except maybe WOAC and WDLI, since they have to be close enough to their city of license to put a Grade A signal in there. Not sure if Canton would be grade A from Richfield or not. Although, with the elevation it may well be.

Just as Youngstown could probably have better coverage putting their towers at the highest point in Mahoning County.

Actually Richfield would have been the best place for the towers. That is the highest point in Northeast Ohio (and how Summit County got it's name).

Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield.

At the time radio broadcasting began Parma was "in the boonies". No consideration for future expansion of the population was considered when Parma became the antenna farm for Cleveland-liceensed radio and TV stations.

Then Akron got a TV station (originally WAKR on ch 49). Since it was an ABC affiliate they had to "protect" WEWS. So the Akron towers were located in West Akron below the Richfield summit, effectivly blocking the signal from Cuyahoga County.

Since the Akron stations no longer carry duplicate programming they should relocate to the Richfield summit along with all the Cleveland stations.

I know that this is cost prohibitive, but it's would solve a lot of problems across the entire Cleveland market.

Why did WAKR have to protect WEWS but WEWS didn't have to protect WAKR? Sounds like WAKR was doomed from the start.

Listening to the KYC HD broadcast. The KYC guy did acknowledge that they have discontinued the stretch-o-vision as of last week. It was a conscious decision on their part.

I missed the first part of the broadcast, but the guy also did acknowledge that KYC will be going to a UHF frequency. I can't remember if that was known already or not based on the submittals to the FCC, but I thought I'd pass it along. And no word on when that will be.

I missed the first part of the broadcast, but the guy also did acknowledge that KYC will be going to a UHF frequency. I can't remember if that was known already or not based on the submittals to the FCC, but I thought I'd pass it along. And no word on when that will be.

It will be Channel 17. Probably after analog shutoff in '09.

Chardon is too far north to hit the southern portions of the DMA, and would dump too much signal out into Lake Erie. Richfield OTOH is just ~15 miles south of the current Parma antenna farm (Seven Hills has no TV and only 2 radio station towers). Less signal will go over the lake, the only issue would be how to reach the extreme Northeastern part of the DMA (Astabula and the eastern most part of Lake Counties) from Richfield..

It would have to be a South/Southwest directional beam out of Chardon. Central to eastern Lake county can barely pick up the farm in Parma, Richfield is even further out, & 23 Akron's coverage really doesn't include Lake County (Could not pick it up in Willowick or Mentor) (read somewhere that, 23's original allocation was Channel 11, don't think it actually got off the ground though)

Ashtabula County I found is actually better covered by Erie, I could barely pick up a signal from Cleveland in Ashtabula (City)

When I lived out West, SLC had repeaters throughout Utah for the main network there stations. Chardon location repeaters would likely fill the holes out east. Guess that was deemed un-needed here.

Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.

I think the tuners are now designed for those with cable now unfortunately.

My take on this, are they putting degraded analog tuners in these sets, compared to the older ones? Its becoming a frustrating experience trying to tune the antennas for this.

I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others
this is on the older analog set.

Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?

Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.



I think all they sell now is digital TV. If your having that much problem with OTA then you probably need either cable or satellite.

The TiVo S3 is said to have remarkable OTA ability, many use it as their only tuner without cable. I can't speak from experience on that. But I don't think returning your tv will help your situation.

I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others
this is on the older analog set.

Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?
While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.

Think the digital TV is going back to the store, poor signal on the digitals, & poor analog performance compared to the old NTSC sets.

I think the tuners are now designed for those with cable now unfortunately.

My take on this, are they putting degraded analog tuners in these sets, compared to the older ones? Its becoming a frustrating experience trying to tune the antennas for this.

I've found this out that normally what applies to the NTSC set normally does not apply to the new digital set, lowering the antenna by 6 feet out of the attic actually improved the signal on all channels (analog) except for channel 3... switching back to RG59 from RG6 improved 3 somewhat, but degraded the others
this is on the older analog set.

Are those Square shooters sufficent for the fringe areas?

I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.

I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be greatly improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.

The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.

Andrew K:
I have a standard NTSC Sony 25" TV in the same living room as a new Sony LCD 46XBR2 and for now I can say the tuner in the LCD is far superior to the 25' job, the Samsung T165 (2), LG 3510A, and the MY-HD 120 HDTV card. The "lock on" is really quick compared to the other tuners and the channel switching is about three times faster. Whereas before I would get analog OTA 49 really noisy it is now almost noise free. 47.3 is fairly steady now but before it was almost not there. PBS 49.1,2,3 are almost rock solid whereas before they were constantly fading loosing lock. I am guessing the tuner sensitivity has improved about 10db. I presently have 2 splitters in line with RG6, about 40 ft. to both TV's. OTA analog 65, 67, 29, 32, 53 have also improved. 17.1,2,3,4,5 now stay locked on very well. The antenna is fixed (DC9000) aiming at Cleveland.
JJK

While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.

The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.

I can say right now I'll probably lose WKBN in April once that tree in my neighbor's yard leafs out.

I did see one house that had an antenna, and it was neat how they did it. The yard goes back about 200 feet, the front is cleared, with trees in the back. There is a tower right at the very back of the property that clears the trees, but from the front of the house you don't even see it unless you really look for it. Only thing I'd worry about is the 200 feet+ cable run, I don't know if you could get a good enough preamp to compensate for that or not.

While I can't speak from direct experience, alot of research I have been doing to buy an OTA antenna suggests its all about location and surroundings. I had a Tech person at Winegard say it doesn't matter how good the antenna is, if I've got trees and the like in close proximity, I'm going to loose signal strength. Getting a "stronger" antenna wouldn't help me. As for the Square Shooter, I've read they are weak in the VHF range. Make sure you get the amplified version. I, personally am looking at a Sensar III. Again with the extremely tall trees in the direction of the transmitter farm, I'm not sure it will do much better than my rabbit ears. I think it was Akron05 that suggested a tower or a chainsaw. I might have to consider those.

Lived in Atwater as a kid for a few years (mid 1980s.) We got cable the last year we lived there, but before that we had a big 'ol antenna with a rotator, on a hill, with few trees. And the antenna was on a tower, we could get, on MOST days, everything out of Cleveland/Akron/Canton, everything from Youngstown, WTOV in Steubenville (and WTRF Wheeling on a good night) and once in a while a watchable signal from Channel 2 and 4 in Pittsburgh.

I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.

I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be greatly improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.

The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.

I have found that my portable 3" analog TV often gets better reception with its little whip antenna than my 32" analog JVC does with the roof antenna on fringe stations. They probably have a better tuner in the little portable since they know it won't be hooked into cable.

I think all they sell now is digital TV. If your having that much problem with OTA then you probably need either cable or satellite.

The TiVo S3 is said to have remarkable OTA ability, many use it as their only tuner without cable. I can't speak from experience on that. But I don't think returning your tv will help your situation.

Cable is out of the question here, Not caving in nor do I have an extra $30-80/month laying around.... I'll watch DVD's from the library if it comes to that.

Television is not a Utility, contrary to what Ted Turner thinks! :D


Anyhow the TiVo S3 do you need a Subscription to run this?

I'm glad someone agrees with me here!!! I feel your pain. TV sets can be greatly improved.

I have a decent $80 portable radio that covers FM starting at 76 MHz. I can tune it to 87.75 MHz on the digital read-out to receive the audio for TV channel 6. The other day, I could easily pick up a Canadian Global affiliate from Paris Ontario on channel 6 audio, and it wasn't even a good atmospheric condition. Let me say that I've never received this station on any TV I've ever had. Channel 5 audio can be picked up on 81.75 MHz, and I don't even need an antenna for it at all. The visual signal is broadcast on a lower frequency that causes a muted audio on that frequency. Remember, this is a cheap radio that gets normal FM reception. Whether people realize it or not, TVs can be greatly improved, and that is half the battle. But there's nothing on the market that I know of that performs very well.

The reason that the manufacturers haven't improved their TVs is because people don't see a problem with them. I know that the antenna is the main issue when it comes to reception, but we wouldn't have to be trying all of these massive antennas if the manufacturer just made the TV better, which I know they could. Like I've said before, I shouldn't need an outdoor antenna for digital to get the same channels I can get through analog with an indoor antenna.

On the same note andrew every subsiquent set I've dealt with in my life had a even better & better tuner, along with each VCR, though untill last year, I haven't bought a new set since 1985! ... I'm disappointed with this digital I'm setting up, & I also see there is going to be a problem on the 20" Phillips I bought last Februrary for my bedroom, I purchased this so I may watch DVD's as the '84 Zeinith (which also has an outstanding tuner) has no AV inputs, & I'm feelinig it's on it's last leg & didn't want to invest in a RF Converter.

I am running Rabbit Ears on my upstairs set now, though hooking these up to the new Phillips didn't seem to warrant a good picture at all, worse come to worse I only have $100 into this I can use it to play games.

I also have scanning Equipment that covers TV audio, I can at times pick up clear Audio out of Youngstown from Northern Lake County.... with a indoor whip.

The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.

I can say right now I'll probably lose WKBN in April once that tree in my neighbor's yard leafs out.

I did see one house that had an antenna, and it was neat how they did it. The yard goes back about 200 feet, the front is cleared, with trees in the back. There is a tower right at the very back of the property that clears the trees, but from the front of the house you don't even see it unless you really look for it. Only thing I'd worry about is the 200 feet+ cable run, I don't know if you could get a good enough preamp to compensate for that or not.


There really are no Trees in the direct path to the southwest Parma farm on these antennas... a few in the distance, however ther rest of the yard is sufficently treed. 20 years ago with the same amount of trees & a smaller boom antenna with no amp the reception was great at this same location.

Cable is out of the question here, Not caving in nor do I have an extra $30-80/month laying around.... I'll watch DVD's from the library if it comes to that.

Television is not a Utility, contrary to what Ted Turner thinks! :D


Anyhow the TiVo S3 do you need a Subscription to run this?

Yes, that's how you receive updates and guide info.

The hardest thing about OTA reception in most of the eastern half of the US are trees, and in some areas, hills. As I drove to work this morning, I made mental notes of every house I saw that had too many tall trees for good OTA reception - it was over 50% at least. I love a treed yard, but that's something to consider if you like getting OTA signals. About 25% probably don't even have a good enough spot for a D* or E* Dish either.
Alas, this is where the cable companies got us where they want us. We've got all this great technology in HDTV, but most of us can't get it reliably OTA. Even my wife says if this antenna I'm buying today doesn't do a good job, we'll just get cable. BUT I know we won't be paying the extra $$ for the digital feeds, so my HDTV is just a waste of money. Will the local networks improve their OTA tecnology? Probably not worth it to them. Easier to feed to the cable companies.

Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.

Alas, this is where the cable companies got us where they want us. We've got all this great technology in HDTV, but most of us can't get it reliably OTA. Even my wife says if this antenna I'm buying today doesn't do a good job, we'll just get cable. BUT I know we won't be paying the extra $$ for the digital feeds, so my HDTV is just a waste of money. Will the local networks improve their OTA tecnology? Probably not worth it to them. Easier to feed to the cable companies.

At least your wife is letting you get an antenna. Lots of women I know say "that thing isn't going on my roof."

My better half is neutral on it, and enough of a videophile to let me experiment!

At least your wife is letting you get an antenna. Lots of women I know say "that thing isn't going on my roof."

My better half is neutral on it, and enough of a videophile to let me experiment!
Well this isn't a full fledged antenna. The Winegard Sensar is more like a wing. Its got the range I need, but again, the trees are gonna kill that. I don't think the wife would let me have one of the more typical antennas. "As long as she has a good picture come American Idol time" that's all she's worried about. :o

The Sensar III amplified has a 10-45 mile range, comfortably in the 23 miles for the Cleveland stations for me. It has a preamp and I will probably add a splitter/amp just after it enters the house. I'm about 70deg to the Akron stations too so I'm hoping it will pick up everything without having to rotate it. Its going on a 2 story house, but like I said, I've got the tall trees (15' taller than the house) just 50 or 60' away from the house to the Northwest. We'll see what happens..... And I know things will change too come spring. Oh well.

The Sensar III amplified has a 10-45 mile range, comfortably in the 23 miles for the Cleveland stations for me. It has a preamp and I will probably add a splitter/amp just after it enters the house. I'm about 70deg to the Akron stations too so I'm hoping it will pick up everything without having to rotate it. Its going on a 2 story house, but like I said, I've got the tall trees (15' taller than the house) just 50 or 60' away from the house to the Northwest. We'll see what happens..... And I know things will change too come spring. Oh well.

I hope it works for you but if it doesn't your pointing the finger at the wrong people. Cable is expensive, yes. But the real reason you don't get good reception is not only location it also has to do with all the other stuff that's going around in the airwaves these days. We have microwave transmissions, digital wireless phones, and more broadcasters then we did 40 years ago.

Now I didn't live here during the 1960's. I lived in Hawthorne, California. About 25 miles from downtown L.A. and probably a good 60 miles from the transmitter. We got good analog reception with just a roof antenna, or even rabbit ears.

In 1989 I moved back to Hawthorne. I couldn't get any channels OTA. PQ was horrible. I asked the cable guy why and he said what I mentioned above, except wireless phones they still wern't popular. Now we are in 2006 and how in the heck can OTA be expected to still get better?

So rather then hassle with it and because I want good pq for my HD. it's cable for me. And the bill.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Looks like tonight-tomorrow might be a good time to try some DX-ing. Also wondering if that'll give me enough push to pull in WFMJ.

http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo.html

Looks like tonight-tomorrow might be a good time to try some DX-ing. Also wondering if that'll give me enough push to pull in WFMJ.

FWIW, I was picking up St Louis KMOX AM 1120 in the car loud and clear last night. Couldn't get any of the big AM stations out of Chicago though. Thought that was kind of strange.

Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.

Depends on the cable provider. From what I can see Wide Open West is just as good as OTA here in Cleveland. And I'm *very* picky about my HD PQ :D

FWIW, I was picking up St Louis KMOX AM 1120 in the car loud and clear last night. Couldn't get any of the big AM stations out of Chicago though. Thought that was kind of strange.

I tend to look at those tropo. forcasts every once in a while. It isn't unusual to hear KMOX pretty much every night because of the nature of AM radio bouncing off the ionosphere. Try 570 AM really late at night. If you're far out enough from WKBN 570, and your radio is perpendicular to the southern direction, then you may be able to hear Radio Reloj (Watch Radio) from Cuba. It's very faint, but you can often hear the ticking/beaping/Spanish speaking. It's not a 100% guarantee, but there's a good chance since I've heard it just about every night around 11pm.

I tend to look at those tropo. forcasts every once in a while. It isn't unusual to hear KMOX pretty much every night because of the nature of AM radio bouncing off the ionosphere. Try 570 AM really late at night. If you're far out enough from WKBN 570, and your radio is perpendicular to the southern direction, then you may be able to hear Radio Reloj (Watch Radio) from Cuba. It's very faint, but you can often hear the ticking/beaping/Spanish speaking. It's not a 100% guarantee, but there's a good chance since I've heard it just about every night around 11pm.

I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.

I have a portable 3.5" LCD TV. I noticed tonight that at least with it's built in whip antenna, tonight while I was down in Hartville I got better reception of 21 and 27 analog than 3 or 5 analog. However, Fox 8 comes in great and 33 analog is worthless.

In Hartville I also got WIVM Ch. 52 clear as a bell.

I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.

At night, I have picked it up in Tennessee and Maryland.

I always get a good chuckle when I hear the blowhards at WTAM boasting about covering "38 states and half of Canada". When I drive to/from Chicago, I'm lucky if I pick up WTAM at the Indiana/Ohio state line. ~200 mile radius under normal conditions.

This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.

The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.

FWIW in 1969 when I lived in Boston late at night I could pick up CKLW, Detroit. Never could get it in the daytime. Also an AM station.

Now down in Mexico XERB use to pump up to Los Angeles when I was a kid easily. I don't know where they were located but I'm sure that is the station that ZZ top refers to on the song "I Heard It On The X". And of course they were in Texas.

Anyone have an HDTV tuner card on their PC?

HELP!!! I have a Norwood Micro Digital/Analog PCI TV Tuner Card. I installed it, used my rotor w/antenna, got several stations I didn't even think I would. It was great.

Then, tonight, for no reason at all, it suddenly STOPPED being able to "read" the ATSC signals. Analogs still worked fine, so I don't think it was an antenna issue. But ALL digital stations said "no signal" no matter where the antenna was pointed (and yes, I went outside to make sure it was still on my roof and rotating as it is supposed to w/the rotator), even the station 7 miles away. NOTHING, ZILCH.

I uninstalled and reinstalled the ATSC program that came with the card, still, nothing.

What happened??? HELP!

I did delete my username's temp folder in C/Documents and Settings/My Name/Local Settings/Temp but I've done that before w/no issues. I did that before it quit but it may be a conincidence. Everything else works just fine.

This is my ONLY OTA HDTV option at the moment!!! (long story...)

HELP ME!

I have the Fusion HDTV5USB external tuner. Its software had been flaky for a long time, but it's mostly working great.

I'm not sure there's anything I can do to help, tho. These cards all have different quirks and different software, and I haven't even HEARD of yours!

Go to the "Home Theatre Computers" board here on AVS and there's probably a thread for yours...

I know the antenna's fine, because I hooked it up to my 32" analog JVC and am DXing picking up WTVG and WTOL Toledo, WICU Erie, and for a brief moment, WTRF Wheeling.

So the antenna's fine.

This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.

The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.

Noticed we have a few hams here too! :)

This only occours during night time hours, A few Select frequencies are opened up at nightime hours for 50Kw Clear Channel Broadcasting, so picking up 3 WE (My Bad WTAM) in 38 States is not all that unrealistic. I've been able to pick up the old 3WE in the Tampa/Orlando area on a good night. Once upon a time our old 1220 was a bit of a powerhouse too, it was one of the only stations I was able to pick up driving up 77 one evening in the early '80's around the Statesville NC area.

Being deprived also during my childhood & teen years & only having a AM Clock radio , I had to set it to KXEL out of Waterloo IA , as it was one of the few reliable stations that came in just before Sunrise.

Know this is a bit off topic but read on if you wish, it was kind of fun to try to see just how many AM stations I could log.

Clear Channel AM radio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_channel)

Slightly back on topic from June through August at times here in the afternoons I'm able to recieve TV stations from Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Miami Houston, Dallas almost as clear as a local due to a similar ionispheric condition.. this seems to occour during very hot humid days. Look for this to occour from Channels 2 through 4 when the co-channel interference bars are present on channel 3.

Now of days anyone with the cash can pay $50-100 a month for a cable to hook up to a degraded TV tuner.. OTA is a Fun Challenge! :)

Cable HD just isn't as good as OTA either.

I remember the "kids" from Mentor TV that delevered a set to my fathers place a few years back being impressed with the OTA picture... imagine the same with DTV too.

Akron05:
Try digitalconnection.com and take a look at the MY-HD 130 card. It does everything including 5.1. It is also pretty rock solid.

JJK

Anyone have an HDTV tuner card on their PC?

This is my ONLY OTA HDTV option at the moment!!! (long story...)

HELP ME!


This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.

And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.

This is probably off topic, but I've heard the "blowhards" on WTAM saying "38 states and half of Canada". This is a bit of a stretch. I've been in Maine, North Carolina, Ontario, and Wisconsin, and I was able to receive WTAM very good. However, any further than this is out of WTAM's coverage. So from my experience, most 50kW nighttime AM stations can broadcast maybe a good 800 miles or more at night depending on the directionality of their antenna, but this is dependent upon a highly unreliable ionosphere in which the signal bounces off of. So you may not be able to get a signal at the Indiana/Ohio line but you may be able to get it in another area like Maine for example. It's dependent upon the conditions of the ionosphere.

The farthest AM stations I've encountered here in Akron were KOA 850-Denver, CBA 1070-Moncton NB, WOAI 1200-San Antonio, CMDC 570-Santa Clara Cuba, and more.
Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.

Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.

This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.

And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.

Read on. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTENNA. My analog reception still works, as does the analog reception on the TV next to the PC.

Akron05:
Try digitalconnection.com and take a look at the MY-HD 130 card. It does everything including 5.1. It is also pretty rock solid.

JJK

I JUST bought this card a week ago, I really didn't plan to buy another one!

I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas

You're probably too low in elevation, so the signals have to come through a hill. Not much you can do except put up a tower.

I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas

Sounds like your antenna might be VHF only or at least the UHF portion isn't pulling in the signals right. Based on the order of how well you're pulling in the stations, it sounds like you're getting the lowest VHF frequencies the best.

Have you tried it without the preamp? Might not be the problem but sometimes amps only handle certain frequencies. Usually VHF digitals come in a little better than UHF, so maybe the amp is cutting it off completely for you. Just a thought.

Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.

Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.

AM and Shortwave frequencies are completely different in that the signals may bounce off the ionosphere. I'm not a ham, but I do find it interesting to find what I can hear. It's really fun during the times that TV and FM stations bouce off of the ionosphere. It's very rare to occur up here, but there was a time last year when I was on a cruise in the Bahamas and I could receive almost all of the normal powered FM stations from a certain area of Indianapolis Indiana and Illinois. The area of Florida seems to be of a convenient distance for good e-skip here in Ohio. I guess the distance is right for it. There have been a couple occasions when I could receive Orlando TV stations extremely well. I was also able to receive "The Twister 101.9" in Oklahoma City.

I wonder why the FCC hasn't allocated a band for a couple long distance broadcasting shortwave TV stations.

I have the Fusion HDTV5USB external tuner. Its software had been flaky for a long time, but it's mostly working great.

Inundated,

I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold for the new MEC (Media Entertainment Center) PC that I put together. I have it hooked up for QAM reception on cable from TW in Stark. As you know using the cable antenna option vs the OTA option limits you on recording software options. Are you recording shows with your Fusion card Manually or using some other software to capture shows?

I have looked for software but no luck finding anything yet.

Thanks for you input.

Thanks to Ken H who mentioned WOW in Detroit now has the locals in the clear, I did a QAM channel scan tonight here in Cleveland and I'm getting them all in the clear.

200 ABC
103-140 TUBE
103-204 UABDT
201 CBS
121-203 NBC
121-130 WeatherPlus
101-202 FOX
117-500 thru 117-546 Music Choice
399 PPVB (looks religious)

Note the QAM channels are flaky. I scanned 4 or 5 times and kept getting more channels coming up, and channel numbering changing with every pass. I'm using the OnAir USB GT tuner connected to a laptop.

Are you recording shows with your Fusion card Manually or using some other software to capture shows?

I have looked for software but no luck finding anything yet.

Thanks for you input.

I'm using the Fusion software, yes.

I'd tried WatchHDTV, which is a solution with less overhead, but as far as I know Al doesn't do QAM...in fact, I think the Fusion software that comes with it is the only software that supports the QAM capabilities.

I'm using the Fusion software, yes.

I'd tried WatchHDTV, which is a solution with less overhead, but as far as I know Al doesn't do QAM...in fact, I think the Fusion software that comes with it is the only software that supports the QAM capabilities.

Using the Fusion RT5 Gold with cable software installed on TW Stark decoding QAM Digital channels I get the following:

D800 NBC 1080i
D801 NBC WX 480i
D802 WUAB 720P
940 DISCOVER 480i
944 FIT TV 480i
947 BRAVO 480i
1003 FOOD 480i
1004 E 480i
D1040 ABC 720P
D1041 FOX 720P
1070 GSN 480i
D1080 WUAB 720P
D1081 THE TUBE 480i
D1082 CBS 1080i
D1083 CBS WX 480i

This list covers most of the digital channels.

For the ANALOG channels:

2 - 79, 96 & 99

I am new to HD so bear with me. I have a outdoor antenna with a wineguard preamp. I get channel 8 analog great but the hd will not come in. I have gotten it but it cuts right out. I get channel 3-1 the best allways clear. 5-1 next best. then 19-1 good but cuts out some. and 8-1 is a no go. I never received uhf signal very good in the past. I live in concord ohio about 30 miles east of cleveland. Any ideas or are the stations just not putting out a strong enough signal. Thanks Dave Thomas

Ah hah another Satisfied Lake County customer :) (See guys, it's really tough out here)

I'm to the north of you, & am lower still, Concord has relatively good height, I wouldn't think a tower would be needed there.

I had always recieved a great signal on UHF with a less than perfect antenna until Contenintal Cablevision set up in the area in '82, I had boosted the antenna size added a rotor went from 300 ohm to RG59 & a rotor to bring what was lost back....

Perhaps cross interference from cable in the area, I was picking up faint images of Contenintal's time Temperature channel on Channel 7, although I had no cable!!

Several years later the signal again degraded I changed to RG6QS & added an amp.. much better, .. now it seems to be the same all over & nothing will improve signal.

The set of the person I was setting up was exchanged last night, (much against my advice, I either though return it for good & try later or work on the antenna). Since we are in the discussion of weak & unsensitive tuners, anyone here have any opinons one way or another on the Insignia, Sanyo, or Westinghouse brands?

I'm looking for opinions of OTA, not cable & preferibly those in fringe areas.

One other question, from the area I'm setting up the signal seems to waver on breezy nights (ie earlier tonight Saturday)... from this location trying both the attic antenna (which is isolated from the wind) & the roof antenna (which is in the wind) seems to produce this same result. As we all know the signal can't be blown by the wind, what should be suspect here? There are trees in the direction several hundred feet away, that shouldn't be obstructing any path of the signal, trees to the backside of the antenna. This affects both Analog & digital signals.

I live about a mile away & my analog signal seems to be uneffected by wind, however, i've never tested a digital set from my location.

Mike Trivisono said that "38 states and half of Canada" does not include closer in areas within Ohio (and I can also add you never hear 1100 in Detroit since one of their locals is on 1090). So the coverage looks like a big donut with the hole surrounding Cleveland. That explains why you barely get 1100 at the Ohio/Indianna border, while someone in South Carolina hears it just fine.
Actually the coverage at night should look like concentric donuts. So you won't hear WTAM in Cinci, but it'll be fine in Nashville. Then it will be weak in Atlanta or Birmingham, but strong in Jacksonville or New Orleans.

I happened to be visiting my sister in DC on the night years ago when Jimmy Carter sent in the helicopters to try to rescue the hostages in Iran. I was up late when the first bulletins hit, so I tuned to AM radio figuring I'd find some news coverage. I tuned across the band looking for the strongest station I could find. It turned out to be 1100 AM - came in stronger than any local Washington DC station.

This list covers most of the digital channels.


That bodes well for folks who got absorbed into TWC from Adelphia...it looks like they would continue to do open QAM here.

One other question, from the area I'm setting up the signal seems to waver on breezy nights (ie earlier tonight Saturday)... from this location trying both the attic antenna (which is isolated from the wind) & the roof antenna (which is in the wind) seems to produce this same result. As we all know the signal can't be blown by the wind, what should be suspect here? There are trees in the direction several hundred feet away, that shouldn't be obstructing any path of the signal, trees to the backside of the antenna. This affects both Analog & digital signals.

I live about a mile away & my analog signal seems to be uneffected by wind, however, i've never tested a digital set from my location.

If it's affecting both the analog and digital signals, there might be a metal awning or other surface that's blowing in the wind and causing multipath reflections. DTV is much more susceptible to multipath than analog.

Without the amp i am not getting anything. Since i get 3-1 the best 82% 5-1 82% 8-1 flickers between 15% to 30%. 19-1 48%. I have a radio shack antenna. Before there were locals on sat. I used this antenna for analog. never received UHF well. I still get 8 in analog good. 8-1 digital must be sent over uhf. Anyway anyone know of a better antenna or can a better uhf antenna be added since my vhf is great with the preamp. Any good company around town that know there stuff with antennas. With all the hi-tech tv's somebody should be able to make a hi-tech antenna. Thanks Dave.

Without the amp i am not getting anything. Since i get 3-1 the best 82% 5-1 82% 8-1 flickers between 15% to 30%. 19-1 48%. I have a radio shack antenna. Before there were locals on sat. I used this antenna for analog. never received UHF well. I still get 8 in analog good. 8-1 digital must be sent over uhf. Anyway anyone know of a better antenna or can a better uhf antenna be added since my vhf is great with the preamp. Any good company around town that know there stuff with antennas. With all the hi-tech tv's somebody should be able to make a hi-tech antenna. Thanks Dave.

Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.

As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):

- uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31
- uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30
- uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50
- uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15
- uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28
- uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59
- vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2
- uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39
- uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26
- uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19
- uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34

And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org). It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.

Anybody know why WKYC isn't doing Browns Tonight (after the 11pm news) in HD? They've got an HD graphics package, but SD widescreen video on the guys sitting behind the desk. Aren't they in the same studio? Can't they just swing the HD camera from the news anchors over to the football guys?

BTW, looks like WKYC is making nice progress on the HD front. After the football game, they had a series of ads promoting the news in HD with a lot of local shots in HD.

When we had all that snow a couple of weeks ago I tried watching WKYC in the morning and they were in stretch o vision because they were running school closings. I turned to WJW and they were still in HD including their graphics on the bottom (or at least the main part of the picture was in HD). It will be interesting to see how WKYC handles it now that they've done away with stretch o vision.

Sounds like your antenna might be VHF only or at least the UHF portion isn't pulling in the signals right. Based on the order of how well you're pulling in the stations, it sounds like you're getting the lowest VHF frequencies the best.

Have you tried it without the preamp? Might not be the problem but sometimes amps only handle certain frequencies. Usually VHF digitals come in a little better than UHF, so maybe the amp is cutting it off completely for you. Just a thought.

Perhaps the amp is bad, had that happen too, clears up a bit after bypassing the amp.

Anyone use the Channelmaster Stealth yet?

Back to the subject: What we need is for somebody to develop an ATSC tuner with the same sensitivity as the old Zenith "click tuners" of the 70's and 80's. Those puppies could pull in the moon if sombody had a signal transmitting from there. A TV DX'er's website shows his "tropo setup" with a seperate Zenith click tuner for every VHF lo band channel. I have DX'ed WBPT Miami and KPRC Houston on a 1974 Zenith console TV from Euclid in the mid 80's. Both were channel 2's which is the closest thing to having TV on short-wave.

I Actually have a '84 Zenith, with Electronic tuning, & a '95 Sylvania Console I "inherated" (this set was a custom order.. not my choice, I would have prefered the monitor type), both have pulled in these gulf coast stations nicely during Tropospheric ducting. :)

One interesting DX was in June of '86 during a series of storms, I pulled in KRQU FM (102.5) out of Cheyene WY , & locked this at a full 5 bars for well over 6 Hours on my '81 Pioneer SX3700.

Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.

As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):

- uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31
- uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30
- uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50
- uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15
- uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28
- uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59
- vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2
- uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39
- uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26
- uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19
- uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34

And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org). It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.

Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.

Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.

I get it real easy, through TW. No problem picking up a signal at all.
:D :D :D

Just yanking your chain, akron05.... :)

Disregarding antennaweb, do you actually get WVIZ digital there? I don't think you can pick it up OTA any more than about 18 feet from the transmitter.

Hookbill beat me to the punch, but I do get it very well in Medina.... through Armstrong cable. I switched from OTA and D* about 2 months ago. But no, I did not get it OTA.

Are the cable systems getting a direct feed from WVIZ or getting it at the headend?

Several times earlier in the thread rlockshin has posted the name and number of a good antenna guy in the area: Jim West at Cleveland Antenna. They have helped many people from this forum. 440-237-6888. I personally have never used him, but several have.

As for channel assignments, the ones you are getting are mostly VHF or low UHF. The digital channel assignments are the number on the far right (these are the ones I get here in Medina, by the way):

- uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 31
- uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30
- uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 50
- uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 15
- uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 28
- uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 59
- vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 2
- uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 39
- uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 26
- uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 19
- uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 34

And in case you haven't checked it yet, a good source to find out the best antenna for what you need is antennaweb.org (http://www.antennaweb.org). It will give you antenna recommendations based on your specific street address.



Is - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30 on the air yet?

This is why I say OTA is such a pia. Call TW, or D* or E* and get rid of these headaches once and for all.

And your wrong, PQ on cable is just as good as OTA. I think it's better because you don't have to run around for two hours while your show is on playing with the antenna.

I put up a large antenna in my attic, and it did take some tweaking, but it works without problems now (no more running around) and there are several advantages.

The biggest advantage is that you can pick up channels that Cable etc. consider out of market. I can get several different games from surrounding cities, or when one is pre-emted or has someone asleep at the switch in Cleveland...you have another city's channel to try, like Youngstown. Some people even pick up PA.

While there are cases where Cable is better than OTA, there are cases of the opposite...and certainly OTA can beat DirecTV's high compression.

Another advantage is you can tune the HD OTA with any tuner in the house. My HD Tivo can record in HD OTA at the same time I watch a different HD channel OTA. Otherwise, you need a Cable/DiecTV tuner everywhere you want a different HD channel.

And the other advantage is that (other than the cost of the antenna) it's free. In the future, more local stations will have more content OTA and hopefully more bandwidth. I don't know if Cable/DirecTV/Dish plans to keep up with the new stations (i.e. I have 3 weather stations, Tube, 3 PBS). For the $ some providers charge for local channels it's worth getting a decent antenna and hooking it up the best you can...IMO anyway.

Does nothing more than Rabbit Ears in northern Lake county, & this was at attic level. May work great in Parma though... Going back.

One thing it did improve was channel 25, but not worth the money, Channel 8 was even worse.

Cool Compact Design though. :)

Antennaweb? since this is at street level, is elevation considered?

Likely the DTV is going back, I don't think the bugs are worked out of these, poor transmission, or these tuners are purely designed strictly for the Cable viewer.... can't put my finger on it yet.

I Do want to test this set at my place before it goes back, my roof antennas performance seems to be a bit better than where I'm setting this up at.

Are the cable systems getting a direct feed from WVIZ or getting it at the headend?

I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.

I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.
Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!

The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.

How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.

If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.

OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).

OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).

It's still The Ohio Channel - and as far as I can see, it is still on during prime time. I think during prime time hours, they usually show Ohio history/tourism programming instead of Statehouse proceedings.

As far as PBS 45&49 going back to HD programming, I would say don't hold your breath for the near future. I recently received their end-of-the-year begging letter, and one of the things stated is that they are struggling to meet their budget due to the unexpected added expense of running the analog transmitter past the original analog shutoff date. They have it especially bad, operating transmitters on channels 45, 46, 49 and 50 (higher frequency generally equals higher power bill).

I have pretty much given up on seeing HD out of them until maybe after analog shutoff.

Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!

The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.

How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.

If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.

OTOH: WEAO's digital service consists of the following: 49.1 "Create", 49.2 the same program as the main analog channel, 49.3 (part time - signs off during prime time in anticipation of ther going back to HD) It used to be The Ohio Channel but I can't put my finger on what it is now (mainly because I have not taken the time to aim an antenna in their direction lately).

Does this mean that WVIZ-DT doesn't broadcast the channel that is seen on their analog station?

I think Inundated said it was OTA, believe it or not.

It's OTA for now. A direct feed is being worked on.

Does this mean that WVIZ-DT doesn't broadcast the channel that is seen on their analog station?

Correct. The programming is different.

Trust me: If it takes extra effort for me to aim an antenna precisely out a window that's nowhere close to my TV in order to get WVIZ-DT from my house 3.7 miles from their 99' 1kw transmitter, it's not reaching Medina!

The only thing possible for WVIZ in Medina is the ANALOG WVIZ. Strongarm (got that name from a co-worker who has their cable service) may be digitizing the analog signal.

How to tell: For now WVIZ's digital service consists of the following 3 services (via rf ch 26) 25.1 = PBS HD (which as a totally different schedule than what is broadcast over the analog ch 25)., 25.2 = The Ohio Channel (or as I like to call it "CSPAN Columbus"), and 25.3 = "CRRS" (audio only) reading service for the blind.

If the "digital WVIZ" yiou are getting on the Medina cable has the exact same program that is lilsted inthe TV guide they are giving you a digitized version of the analog signal.

Armstrong Cable here in Orrville is most definitely the PBS HD feed from rf ch 26. I'm not sure where the signal comes from, but it is definitely not the same channel as the analog ch 25. We are about 38 miles from the towers down here in Wayne County. Perhaps they are getting the signal fed from Armstrong in Medina.

As credited to me above, and repeated by Cathode Kid, yes, I was told by WVIZ's engineer that now-TWC/Cleveland is picking up WVIZ-DT OTA.

The signal is absolutely awful, but I hear cable companies have these tall antennas and all :) Parma to Lakeside Avenue is not a stretch even on a tiny STA if you've got tall antennas.

WVIZ-DT does not, last I heard, run an SD simulcast of their OTA signal. WEAO-DT(/WNEO-DT) always has, even when they ran PBS HD 24/7.

Oh, and as far as I know, WBNX-DT is not even close to being live yet. I have no idea what happened to the plans to put up a cable feed by the end of October or whenever they said it would go up, but the OTA signal wasn't ETA until spring 2007 at last check.

Armstrong Cable here in Orrville is most definitely the PBS HD feed from rf ch 26. I'm not sure where the signal comes from, but it is definitely not the same channel as the analog ch 25. We are about 38 miles from the towers down here in Wayne County. Perhaps they are getting the signal fed from Armstrong in Medina.

Makes sense to me. With those aforementioned Tall Cable Headend Antennas, they can probably pick up even the WVIZ-DT STA from Medina, and probably feed Orrville out of there...

Is - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 30 on the air yet?

Nope, I dunno why Antennaweb and others show it as live.

I have two ATSC tuners. One is built into my Philips 26" HDTV, and the other is an HDV 420. Up until now, I hadn't tested them to see which worked better, so I hooked the same antenna to both by using a splitter. The HDV 420 performed slightly, but noticeably better. WOAC is somewhat of a touchy signal for me to get, and the Zenith HDV 420 was able to pull in a solid picture with no drop-outs at the same time that the Philips couldn't get any picture. The tuner that is built into my Philips TV has always had a hard time with WOIO-DT, but the HDV 420 picks it up with almost no effort needed.

Changing topic completely, I was wondering if anyone else is annoyed that there is way too much news on. What ever happened to the days when there was only a 6pm newscast on the main channels, 3, 5, and 8? Now there's news on at 4pm, 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 10pm, and 11pm, and most of the content is fluffed up to waste time. Isn't there enough TV shows for the channels to air? And a large chunk of the TV shows that are aired are the typical garbage court shows and "who's the father" talk shows.

It's still The Ohio Channel - and as far as I can see, it is still on during prime time. I think during prime time hours, they usually show Ohio history/tourism programming instead of Statehouse proceedings.

As far as PBS 45&49 going back to HD programming, I would say don't hold your breath for the near future. I recently received their end-of-the-year begging letter, and one of the things stated is that they are struggling to meet their budget due to the unexpected added expense of running the analog transmitter past the original analog shutoff date. They have it especially bad, operating transmitters on channels 45, 46, 49 and 50 (higher frequency generally equals higher power bill).

I have pretty much given up on seeing HD out of them until maybe after analog shutoff.
I posted this based on EPG guide data that is loaded on my E* 921 for off air-channel 49.3. Ironically it does only says "local programming" for all hours of 49.1 and 49.2. It says that 49.3 is "off air" during prime time hours. It comes back on at midnight with several episodes of "Tavis Smally" (i'm not in front of my screen so forgive me if I misspell the name). For WVIZ-DT I only get guide data for 25.2, the Ohio Channel. I compaired the guide data of 25.2 and 49.3 - they are different so I presume that 49.3 was different. When I went through the troubles to aim my Silver Sensor out different parts of my home these two channels were the same Ohio Channel, but that was before I started getting guide data.

I get my guide data from labs.zap2it (using mythtv) and the data for 49.3 is always wrong. It has a lot of the kids shows that are on the analog feed in the guide but when I tune to them they are the CSPAN type coverage from Columbus that seems to be the Ohio channel. I can't get WVIZ DT from Hartville and only have an ATSC tuner so I can't compare the two.

Some moderate tropo ducting tonight. All analog.

Getting WKBN analog 27 as clear as I get 19 WOIO. 21 analog not far behind, and I'm getting 33 WYTV analog watchable, which almost never happens. Also getting a watchable WTOV 9, WTVG 13 (Toledo) WICU 12 Erie, and WTOL 11 (Toledo.) Got a faint picture from WNWO Ch. 24 in Toledo, faint WTRF 7 Wheeling, and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.

Some moderate tropo ducting tonight. All analog.

Getting WKBN analog 27 as clear as I get 19 WOIO. 21 analog not far behind, and I'm getting 33 WYTV analog watchable, which almost never happens. Also getting a watchable WTOV 9, WTVG 13 (Toledo) WICU 12 Erie, and WTOL 11 (Toledo.) Got a faint picture from WNWO Ch. 24 in Toledo, faint WTRF 7 Wheeling, and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.
Winging from memory, I thought the FM fell between Channel 6 & 7 , I used to pick up neighbors cordless phone audio on Channel 7.

Edit, When I moved back from out west, I had to remove my FM amp in the car, I was recieving 92.3 all over the spectrum on trips down I-271, are you using an amp?
Forgot what they called it already, :eek: but we could pick up reflections of the 800 Mhz Cell bands in the upper 400Mhz range.

Pretty good area you are in, I'm doing some tests with Rabbit Ears & an attic antenna for the bedroom sets, I cannot get any sgnal for 3 & 5 (analog) they are unwatchable. With some cheap amplified rabit ears almost a watchable signal on 23 Akron, strange terrain I live in.

I guess when DTV is finalized, I will no longer be able to watch TV in my upstairs.

before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.

I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.

Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.

before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.

I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.

Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.

I get 51 better than 17 analog (51 is a retransmitter of WDLI 17) in the sense that while 51 has more snow, it has no ghosting, and 17 ghosts horribly.

Your area must suck for one reason or the other!! Are you right along the lake?

This morning, was getting near-local quality on WTOV and WTRF analog out of Wheeling/Steubenville. All three Youngstown stations nearly as clear as the Cleveland locals. Getting some audio and faint video from Ch. 11, 13, and 24 in Toledo, and WCMH Ch. 4 in Columbus.

From Parma I get 51 analog better than 35 - and I'm right next to the tower that carries all the LPTV's. 51's coverage area according to the map on the FCC site should not even reach anywhere near here, yet it's very watchable. So you say you are getting 51 in Akron! :eek:

There may be something for that location, that signal really reaches much better than any other repeater/Lp station.

Here is the coverage map for W51BI:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TX203193.html

Even though the city of license is "Kirtland" from the map it appears that the transmitter is in Geauga County, perhaps in Newbury.

BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?

I get my guide data from labs.zap2it (using mythtv) and the data for 49.3 is always wrong. It has a lot of the kids shows that are on the analog feed in the guide but when I tune to them they are the CSPAN type coverage from Columbus that seems to be the Ohio channel. I can't get WVIZ DT from Hartville and only have an ATSC tuner so I can't compare the two.


I am also in Hartville. I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold tuner. I have used it in the ATSC configuration with an out door antenna and connected to TW cable in Stark using QAM.

Have you looked at TitianTV for you schedule?

I have Snapstream BeyondTV and Beyond Media. BeyondTV does not support QAM reception. If I use the Fusion card in cable TV mode (Fusion card uses software drivers that must be loaded either for OTA antenna or cable) I can not use BeyondTV to get a schedule or tune the channels. I must use Fusion's channel changing functions and their limited scheduling function.


Have you looked at MYHD, Record_This or MediaPortal?

Always interested to see how someone else has their PC configured.

From Parma I get 51 analog better than 35 - and I'm right next to the tower that carries all the LPTV's. 51's coverage area according to the map on the FCC site should not even reach anywhere near here, yet it's very watchable. So you say you are getting 51 in Akron! :eek:

There may be something for that location, that signal really reaches much better than any other repeater/Lp station.

Here is the coverage map for W51BI:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TX203193.html

Even though the city of license is "Kirtland" from the map it appears that the transmitter is in Geauga County, perhaps in Newbury.

BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?

I've always gotten a snowy, but watchable picture from Ch. 51.

.

BTW: WDLI has an app to move ch 17 to Akron (where their digital 39 currently resides) with a 1,000 kw and higher tower. Why would they bother improving their analog service when it's going away in a little over a year form now?

TBN affiliates have always seemed to be very pecuiliar for things like that.

before Going back to the Store, I borrowed the Insignia 27" DTV & tested it along side my '95 Sylvania Console... much to my surprise, the UHF analog tuner was actually better than in the old Sylvania! Tough I really don't know about the VHF portion, the ATSC Tuner seemed to work great on my outdoor, though still no Youngstown, Akron or Canton, which Antennaweb seems to think I can recieve.

I also found eliminating my High Pass inline filter, provided a lot better UHF Picture on the weaker Stations, 65 & 32.

Anyone have any information on where the transmitter is for the Kirtland Channel 51? Says it's 15.3 miles from me (which I find hard to believe, that transmitter must be elsewhere) & 22 miles from Parma, yet according to AntennaWeb I need a large boom to recieve, where Parma only needs a small omni.

Where exactly is your location? I don't think that antennaweb is a good source. I don't know how many people on here are aware of the FCC's records, but I always go to the FCC records and check the transmitter and broadcast coverage for myself. If you go to the following website and enter the call letters of the station at the end of the web address, it will give you the transmitter information.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WKYC - This would be the TV query for WKYC. Make sure that you're looking at licensed stations and not constuction permits or applications, which aren't on-the-air yet.

Here is a list of all local Cleveland DMA stations... http://radiostationworld.com/locations/united_states_of_america/ohio/tv_information.asp?m=cle

Now if you click on the "service countour map (XX dBu)", it will give you the FCC's estimated coverage for the station that your doing a query on. Beware, the FCC's digital coverage is slightly overestimated, but it's nearly accurate. For example, here is the coverage for WFMJ-21's analog signal... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV494417.html . If you're in Lake county, you're going to have trouble receiving it, especially if you're at a low elevation. Sometimes you may be in the FCC coverage, but you're terrain could stop you from receiving the signal.

Now if you click on the "service countour map (XX dBu)", it will give you the FCC's estimated coverage for the station that your doing a query on. Beware, the FCC's digital coverage is slightly overestimated, but it's nearly accurate. For example, here is the coverage for WFMJ-21's analog signal... http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=TV494417.html .

I'd agree they're usually overestimated, but in some cases, I think they're UNDERestimated, like Ch. 51, the Kirtland repeater for WDLI which I get better than WDLI sometimes.

I'm well inside WKBN-DT's contour, and get it fairly well. WFMJ says I should be inside it in SE Akron, but I can't lock. I can GET a signal, but not lock.

and for some really odd reason, on Channel 9 with my antenna 90 degrees off from WTOV, I was getting WONE 97.5 AUDIO in Akron, which makes NO sense since the frequencies are quite far apart.

channel 9 is 187.26 (visual) 191.76 (aural)
2nd harmonic of 97.5 would be 195 Mhz...
I have to use an FM trap before my preamp in order
to decode WOIO-DT on channel 10 (192-198 MHz 192.31 Mhz pilot)...
Ed...

I'd agree they're usually overestimated, but in some cases, I think they're UNDERestimated, like Ch. 51, the Kirtland repeater for WDLI which I get better than WDLI sometimes.

I'm well inside WKBN-DT's contour, and get it fairly well. WFMJ says I should be inside it in SE Akron, but I can't lock. I can GET a signal, but not lock.

They're DIGITAL contour maps seem overestimated. I'm sure that the average Joe Blow wouldn't be able to get WKBN-DT with his indoor antenna that he uses to get WKBN analog in Akron.

Akron05, this is what I heard about your efforts to get WKBN-DT: "After HOURS of messing with the antenna rotator, I found a half-inch wide swath where I can lock WKBN. Signal strength is low, but I've been watching for about an hour and have had no dropouts."

I can't get nearly a workable signal, because the meter is way below that threshold, and I'm using the best indoor antenna I can with an amplifier. According to the FCC's estimate, I'm probably a good 20 miles inside WKBN-DT's coverage, and I get nothing.

However, the FCC's analog estimates seem accurate. I've noticed that there are areas of Akron that can get W51BI very well, but this isn't the majority as I don't get any picture from 51 at all. That is why the FCC doesn't include Akron in the coverage of W51BI.

Now looking at the estimated coverage of WFMJ analog, it seems accurate. Sure I've been in areas of Medina county where I could get WFMJ good, even though it's way outside the FCC coverage, but I've been in areas of Akron that have had worse reception that were inside the estimated coverage.

channel 9 is 187.26 (visual) 191.76 (aural)
2nd harmonic of 97.5 would be 195 Mhz...
I have to use an FM trap before my preamp in order
to decode WOIO-DT on channel 10 (192-198 MHz 192.31 Mhz pilot)...
Ed...

I forgot about that FM trap on my amplifier. I flipped the switch from "out" to "in" to see if it would do anything for my reception of WOIO-DT, and my TV's tuner went from no picture to a solid picture with no drop-outs.

I did some screen captures from my TV card. The HD pics are from last week when it still worked. Analogs are from today, the analog still works although I get zip, nada, zilch on the ATSC portion. The analogs are typical days like tonight. Last night the reception was clearer.

WJW HD - http://i16.tinypic.com/2j5lyew.jpg
WFMJ analog - http://i12.tinypic.com/2rwxi07.jpg
WYTV analog - this is about as good as it normally gets - http://i10.tinypic.com/2u9mvdw.jpg
WKBN analog - http://i10.tinypic.com/2h699ag.jpg

I get 51 better than 17 analog (51 is a retransmitter of WDLI 17) in the sense that while 51 has more snow, it has no ghosting, and 17 ghosts horribly.

Your area must suck for one reason or the other!! Are you right along the lake?

Akron05, not right along the lake, about a couple miles inland as the crow flys, though I'm below that ridge it don't really get any lower except the stepoff at the lake itself. Yes it does suck, would think I could pick up London easily too, but no.

You're all getting a LP from Kirtland, from Parma Akron? where I'm about 3 miles from Kirtland (which I highly doubt that's where the transmitter is, I suspect somewhere in Mayfield) & can only at times pick up a faint analog signal from this?

Strange :rolleyes:

Where exactly is your location? I don't think that antennaweb is a good source. I don't know how many people on here are aware of the FCC's records, but I always go to the FCC records and check the transmitter and broadcast coverage for myself. If you go to the following website and enter the call letters of the station at the end of the web address, it will give you the transmitter information.

I'm North below the ridge in central Mentor, just North of Rt 2 (my concern when the state installs the noise barriers just how that may affect the reception, everyone around me has cable so it won't draw complaints elsewhere). I've also been looking at the FCC Records, find them a bit over optimistic. There is a really wide variance on Antenna web, I've been quering addresses on streets less than a half mile from me & come up with completely different results.

Here is a list of all local Cleveland DMA stations... http://radiostationworld.com/locations/united_states_of_america/ohio/tv_information.asp?m=cle
.


Interesting, 51 Kirtland is transmitting from Novelty or Newberry, half of Kirtland is not even in it's coverage area! :D

Note, WXOX Ch 65's actually listed as Ch 44 on the FCC Database?? I thought that was an application to change? no Ch 65 is listed.

I'm below North below the ridge in central Mentor, just North of Rt 2 (my concern when the state installs the noise barriers just how that may affect the reception, evgeryone around me has cable so it won't draw complaints elsewhere). I've also been looking at the FCC Records, find them a bit over optimistic. There is a really wide variance on Antenna web, I've been quering addresses on streets less than a half mile from me & come up with completely different results.

Antennaweb takes terrain into account. The FCC maps do not.

For me, antennaweb says:

* yellow - uhf WDLI-DT 39.1 TBN CANTON OH 297° 6.9 39
* yellow - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 304° 9.5 50
* yellow - uhf WVPX-DT 59 i AKRON OH TBD 304° 6.6 59
* yellow - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 342° 27.6 30
* green - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 339° 26.8 31
* green - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 340° 27.5 15
red - uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN OH 340° 27.9 43
* red - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 340° 27.9 28
red - uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland OH 342° 27.7 61
* red - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 342° 27.7 34
red - uhf WOAC 67 SAH CANTON OH 57° 9.1 67
* red - uhf WOAC-DT 47.1 SAH CANTON OH 57° 9.1 47
red - uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND OH 335° 26.2 25
red - uhf WVPX 23 i AKRON OH 303° 6.6 23
red - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 343° 27.8 19
* red - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 343° 27.8 10
red - uhf WEAO 49 PBS AKRON OH 304° 9.5 49
red - uhf WDLI 17 TBN CANTON OH 147° 15.5 17
red - uhf WNEO 45 PBS ALLIANCE OH 113° 30.1 45
red - uhf W35AX 35 A1 CLEVELAND OH 342° 27.6 35
red - vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND OH 339° 26.8 8
red - uhf WAOH-LP 29 A1 AKRON OH 53° 8.3 29
red - vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND OH 340° 27.5 5
red - vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND OH 343° 27.6 3
* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 343° 27.6 2
red - uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON OH 342° 27.6 55
blue - uhf WCDN-LP 53 DAY CLEVELAND OH 342° 27.6 53
blue - uhf W51BI 51 TBN KIRTLAND OH 24° 31.8 51
blue - uhf WKBN 27 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 42.9 27
* blue - uhf WKBN-DT 27.1 CBS YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 42.9 41
violet - uhf WYTV 33 ABC YOUNGSTOWN OH 94° 43.5 33
* violet - uhf WFMJ-DT 21.1 NBC YOUNGSTOWN OH 92° 43.3 20
* violet - uhf WNEO-DT 46.1 PBS ALLIANCE OH 113° 30.2 46
violet - vhf KDKA 2 CBS PITTSBURGH PA 123° 84.1 2

Starting from the top:

I get WDLI and WEAO analog and digital no issues. WVPX-DT isn't even up yet, neither is WBNX, so antennaweb is wrong there. Everything down to WCDN 53 I can get no problem. I've NEVER gotten WCDN, no hope at all. W51B1 I get fine, but snowy, WKBN analog, decent, a little snow, digital, just fine if the antenna is perfect. WYTV analog is unwatchable. WMFJ analog is snowy but watchable, never can lock WFMJ digital but I can "see" the signal. Cannot get WNEO digital, but I think their power is diminished IIRC.

KDKA? Pu-leeze! No frickin' way. Not even during tropo events. I can get other Pittsburgh stations though, I think WKYC digital 2 interferes with getting KDKA.

Antennaweb overestimates for me. However, I CAN get WXOX 65 (low-power Home Shopping Network) with a snowy but watchable signal, and antennaweb doesn't even show that one.

They're DIGITAL contour maps seem overestimated. I'm sure that the average Joe Blow wouldn't be able to get WKBN-DT with his indoor antenna that he uses to get WKBN analog in Akron. .

Been playing around with a 25 DB amplified indoor, for my upstairs sets, I may scrap the attic idea, however no 3 or 5 analog , 23 comes in better than those.

Akron05, not right along the lake, about a couple miles inland as the crow flys, though I'm below that ridge it don't really get any lower except the stepoff at the lake itself. Yes it does suck, would think I could pick up London easily too, but no.

You're all getting a LP from Kirtland, from Parma Akron? where I'm about 3 miles from Kirtland (which I highly doubt that's where the transmitter is, I suspect somewhere in Mayfield) & can only at times pick up a faint analog signal from this?

Strange :rolleyes:
You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.

I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.

You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.

I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.

From Willowick?? Wow. That's about 110 miles.

You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.

I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.

The lake really helps. I was driving on I-90 just south of Buffalo, New York, and I could pick up almost every local Detroit radio station very well. That's around 200 miles. This doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it does happen frequently.

Is there anyone who knows why the FCC has lower dBu requirements for digital compared to analog? Are digital receivers designed to pick up signals with a lower dBu?

Here are the analog requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
Channels 2 through 6: 47 dBu 68 dBu 74 dBu
Channels 7 through 13: 56 dBu 71 dBu 77 dBu
Channels 14 through 69: 64 dBu 74 dBu 80 dBu

Here are the digital requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
Channels 2 through 6 28 dBu 28 dBu 35 dBu
Channels 7 through 13 36 dBu 36 dBu 43 dBu
Channels 14 through 69 41 dBu 41 dBu 48 dBu

Does Time Warner QAM to viewers in Brunswick? Wondering if I can get an HDTV with no need for a cable box for HD?

Is there anyone who knows why the FCC has lower dBu requirements for digital compared to analog? Are digital receivers designed to pick up signals with a lower dBu?

Here are the analog requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
Channels 2 through 6: 47 dBu 68 dBu 74 dBu
Channels 7 through 13: 56 dBu 71 dBu 77 dBu
Channels 14 through 69: 64 dBu 74 dBu 80 dBu

Here are the digital requirements (Grade B, Grade A, and City Grade)...
Channels 2 through 6 28 dBu 28 dBu 35 dBu
Channels 7 through 13 36 dBu 36 dBu 43 dBu
Channels 14 through 69 41 dBu 41 dBu 48 dBu

Digital can have same coverage as analog at lower power. However, it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison either, IIRC.

I did get an interesting explaination of digital vs. analog the other day, as to why digital is "get it or don't" where analog is "fade out to snow."

Analog is like a picture. The farther away from your face it is, you can still see it, but after a while, the details get blurred. Digital is like a book. A half-inch from your eye it's distorted and can't be read (too much signal is the analogy.) Four inches away it's readable. 24 inches away it's also readable. As it gets farther, suddenly, it reaches a point where you just can't read it anymore. Either you can read it, or you can't. So whether digital signal strength is 100 or 85%, it works 100% on your screen.

I am also in Hartville. I just purchased a Fusion RT 5 Gold tuner. I have used it in the ATSC configuration with an out door antenna and connected to TW cable in Stark using QAM.

Have you looked at TitianTV for you schedule?

I have Snapstream BeyondTV and Beyond Media. BeyondTV does not support QAM reception. If I use the Fusion card in cable TV mode (Fusion card uses software drivers that must be loaded either for OTA antenna or cable) I can not use BeyondTV to get a schedule or tune the channels. I must use Fusion's channel changing functions and their limited scheduling function.


Have you looked at MYHD, Record_This or MediaPortal?

Always interested to see how someone else has their PC configured.

I looked at TitianTV's listings and they did not even have data for 49.3, so that won't help me much.

As for my setup, I have a PC dedicated to TV.
3Ghz processor
1GB RAM
NVidia 6800 graphics card with DVI out to a 19" widescreen (16:10) monitor.
1 Air2PC ATSC only capture card
160GB Hard Drive for recordings
My sound card supports 5.1 audio but I haven't hooked it up yet.

For software I run MythTV .20 on Ubuntu Linux. The Air2PC is a DVB card and it is supported by the linux kernal so there was nothing to configure to get the tuner working.

MYHD, Record_This and MediaPortal are probably not going to be working for me since I am running Linux instead of Windows although the MYHD card does have Linux drivers in development. I believe that I could get the QAM reception over cable if I had it but I am only receiving OTA channels currently. I have a rooftop antenna oriented at about 330 deg and get 3,5,8,17,19,27,43,49,61,67

While there are a lot of things that I could improve on the system (160GB is just not enough for recording HD for example) I am pretty happy with it and use it as the only source of TV viewing in the house.

What kind of a setup do you have? Is your PC your primary source or is it more of a hobby? Do you have good results with OTA? If so what antenna placement has worked best for you?

You can kiss London goodby ever since WOIO-DT signed on. Even though you may not get a lock on WOIO-DT, it's presence on the channel wipes out the analog signal of CFPL. Keep in mind that CFPL is inland quite a ways, not on the lakefront like Cleveland is. From here in Parma CFPL is 110 miles. It's probably around 85-90 miles form Mentor.

I had a friend who used to live in Willowick, his tv got the Toledo stations in the summer better than the Cleveland stations. There is nothing but Lake Erie between Lake County and the Toledo Transmitters, while you have that ridge in Geauga County blocking the Cleveland and Youngstown signals.

Occasionally can get Toledo 11 & 13 here, but right especially on the Y-Town is zilch,... not even a faint signal here.

They really needed repeaters perhaps in Chardon to cover the holes here, but I think if they relocated the transmitters to Richfield, I could kiss all the Cleveland stations goodbye too... just too low here.

Digital can have same coverage as analog at lower power. However, it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison either, IIRC.

I did get an interesting explaination of digital vs. analog the other day, as to why digital is "get it or don't" where analog is "fade out to snow."

Analog is like a picture. The farther away from your face it is, you can still see it, but after a while, the details get blurred. Digital is like a book. A half-inch from your eye it's distorted and can't be read (too much signal is the analogy.) Four inches away it's readable. 24 inches away it's also readable. As it gets farther, suddenly, it reaches a point where you just can't read it anymore. Either you can read it, or you can't. So whether digital signal strength is 100 or 85%, it works 100% on your screen.

To my understanding either on or off with digital, I reallt never delved into the digital modes on the ham bands (ie: Packet), one would have thought before Television, FM would be broadcasting in CD Quality digital. is the Audio coming from Television coming in Digitally too? I imagine, though sometimes the picture goes out but you still can get audio... I'm sure it's a digital signal for audio too.

The lake really helps. I was driving on I-90 just south of Buffalo, New York, and I could pick up almost every local Detroit radio station very well. That's around 200 miles. This doesn't occur 100% of the time, but it does happen frequently.

Happens often here, but not as often as you would think, perhaps it's moisture off the lake that may block this. I used to pick up 102.5 quite often from the Falls, but when 102.5 went on in Ashtabula this was gone too, strange they picked that frequency, I can sometimes pick up 103.3 (The Edge) from Buffalo from Ashtabula. One station I leave programmed in the car is 103.7 out of Erie, almost always a good signal, but TV from Erie is nil.

During the "Blackout" a few years back the only station I was able to pick up in the Car in my driveway was 102.5 from Niagra Falls, perhaps other electrical sources were interfering with it too.

Anybody else having this problem?
I just got D*TV HD service installed. 3, 5, & 8 hd channels come in just fine. However, 19 - WOIO hd feed does not come in too well. The picture stops and starts, and gets blocky. Is this an install problem? or is something wrong with D*TV's WOIO hd feed? Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Does Time Warner QAM to viewers in Brunswick? Wondering if I can get an HDTV with no need for a cable box for HD?

That IS ex-Adelphia, right?

Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.

Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.

But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.

That IS ex-Adelphia, right?

Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.

Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.

But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.

Yes, you've got it right. That's pretty much what I remember seeing when I set up my S3. I don't recall however seeing TNT or Discovery in the clear. I may have missed it.

TWC pretty much only puts the locals in the clear encrypting even the basic HD channels of TNT-HD and Discovery, usually.

Yes, you've got it right. That's pretty much what I remember seeing when I set up my S3. I don't recall however seeing TNT or Discovery in the clear. I may have missed it.

I haven't run cable through my F5USB tuner in a long time - it's being used daily to pick up OTA HD stations on my laptop - so I don't know if they've changed anything...

But DiscoveryHD has always been in the clear, at least at this end of the ex-Adelphia/TWC Cleveland system. TNTHD showed up in the clear as soon as TWC took over and added it, but they could have hidden it by now.

For that matter, my new HDTV has a QAM tuner built-in, but I don't feel like unplugging the cable from my SA8000HD to test it... (and a splitter would drop the signal level too low)

How is it that WVPX can get away without having their digital channel up yet? I know that their channel 59 will eventually be phased out, but I'm surprised that the FCC doesn't require them to at least have a low power special temporary authority like the few Erie channels that are above channel 51.

How is it that WVPX can get away without having their digital channel up yet? I know that their channel 59 will eventually be phased out, but I'm surprised that the FCC doesn't require them to at least have a low power special temporary authority like the few Erie channels that are above channel 51.

There are interference issues with a Canadian station on 59 that must be resolved with the Canadian version of the FCC, similar to the issues that have held up WBNX getting their digital stick up. Of course, let's not fool ourselves here - I'm sure that WVPX is putting forth minimal effort in getting approval for channel 59. They don't want to pay the electric bill for a channel 59 transmitter.

I went to check in on the Insignia HD, getting a "No Signal" on 3-1 & 3-2, (yet programmed in) now here is the strange part, I'm getting 2-1 locked @ 37% & no freezing after the initial stall,& no sub. Its an NBC Station.

Info on 3-1 Says WKYC HD, yet no info on 2-1.

3 Not transmitting Virtual Information late Saturday?

There are interference issues with a Canadian station on 59 that must be resolved with the Canadian version of the FCC, similar to the issues that have held up WBNX getting their digital stick up. Of course, let's not fool ourselves here - I'm sure that WVPX is putting forth minimal effort in getting approval for channel 59. They don't want to pay the electric bill for a channel 59 transmitter.

Someone brought up 19 going back to 19, however one of the Toledo HD's went to 19, & there is an Analog 30 (WBNX DT assignment ) in Toledo also.

59 from Canada? never picked this one up, however I am picking up a Canadian 51 at times.

Anybody else having this problem?
I just got D*TV HD service installed. 3, 5, & 8 hd channels come in just fine. However, 19 - WOIO hd feed does not come in too well. The picture stops and starts, and gets blocky. Is this an install problem? or is something wrong with D*TV's WOIO hd feed? Any help or info would be appreciated. Thanks!
UncPhil,
It's definitely D*'s WOIO mpeg4 feed. Saw same issues last night. I've also got OTA and confirmed that there was nothing wrong with 19's signal. For whatever reason 19 is having major issues digitally settling in with D*. No surprise really as they (WOIO) seems to have dragged it's feet through this whole digital age that we're attempting to give birth to!!!

Someone brought up 19 going back to 19, however one of the Toledo HD's went to 19, & there is an Analog 30 (WBNX DT assignment ) in Toledo also.

59 from Canada? never picked this one up, however I am picking up a Canadian 51 at times.

After the transition, there will be no digital channel 19 in Toledo. WTVG 13 is currently broadcasting digitally on 19, but they will move back to 13. WTOL 11 is currently broadcasting digitally on 17, but they will move back to 11. WKYC will have its final resting place on 17. Here is a link to the final DTV channel assignments around the country...

http://www.cmdconsulting.com/uploads/N_178_FCC-06-150A1.pdf

I'm assuming that the problem with channel 59 is CICO in Chatham Ontario. Although this obviously won't present a problem with WVPX, but permission is still needed from the Canadians.

WBNX-DT will have minimal effect on WGTE analog 30 in Toledo. This can be compared to WOIO-DT and CFPL on 10, WKYC-DT and KDKA or WJBK on 2, WUAB-DT and WTTE on 28, and WQHS-DT and WOSU on 34. No worries because there won't be any digital 30 anywhere near Cleveland after the transition.

WXYZ 7 analog in Detroit is coming in as clear as a local tonight. The other Detroit and Toledo stations are watchable.

When discussing reaching OTA towers in different locations, we speak of jointennas, multiple antennas, archaic rotors (that ONLY work if you only ever watch one TV at a time...I remember childhood fights because I was pointing the antenna at Youngstown and my sister was trying to watch a Cleveland station in the other room) and I thought: why hasn't someone made either a TV itself, or better yet, a D* or E* STB with TWO OTA antenna inputs? Here's how I envision this working:

You have two antennas, and two downleads. Each one goes into the STB. When you scan for channels, the system checks each channel, with each antenna input, and if there's no signal either way, it goes on, but if there is, it chooses the "best" one and locks on it. That way, you could have the benefit of two antennas in different directions but the ease and conveinence of seamless channel surfing without worrying about rotors, A/B switches, or any of that.

Perhaps it would be something of a niche product but now that the E* 622 already has two satellite tuners that seem to work well, I think they could add a second OTA tuner too so that such a functionality coudl exist without much problem. Even make it so that you can either choose two seperate antennas as inputs, using the method I described above, or simply use one of the inputs for the second TV so that the digital OTA could go to the second television.

Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.

Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.

I like the Zenith Silver Sensor or any comparable brand. I don't know of any indoor antenna that's better. This one is directional, and I use an amplifier with it. It works well for an indoor.

Has anyone found an indoor antenna that gives decent HDTV reception for viewers on the East side of Cleveland (Cleveland Hts)? I tried an item that I bought from Radio Shack that looked like the Star Ship Enterprise, but the reception was useless.

I'm in Shaker and use the Silver Sensor in a 3rd floor window aimed at Parma. ~50 ft of RG6 coax to the tuner in the living room. No amplifier. It's UHF only so WKYC is kinda flaky. All the other digital stations come in fine.

If you can't find a Silver Sensor, try a Terk HDTVi, it's similar to the Silver Sensor with the addition of VHF rabbit ears.

If you're on the ground level with no window facing Parma, IMO your odds are pretty slim at getting any reception with a tabletop antenna.

Don't know if anyone else saw this last night. I was flipping around and noticed WUAB-DT was broadcasting a test pattern. This was sometime late in the 10:00 hour. It was some kind of MY TV test pattern slide with what looked like info about the times for local breaks during the show. The analog WUAB had normal programming on (Action News). Evidentally, someone was asleep at the switch. Normally, I would have tried to contact the station to let them know they had a problem on their digital channel, but since it was Action News that was supposed to be showing, I figured I was doing society a favor by NOT letting them know. I'll bet the test pattern received higher ratings! :)

Interestingly, in the 11 o'clock, hour, they were showing one of those dopey MY TV soaps, which I think usually are broadcast in primetime. They were showing their regularly scheduled stuff on the analog channel (old sitcoms). I don't know how long this went on; I didn't bother to check in anymore after that.

UncPhil,
It's definitely D*'s WOIO mpeg4 feed. Saw same issues last night. I've also got OTA and confirmed that there was nothing wrong with 19's signal. For whatever reason 19 is having major issues digitally settling in with D*. No surprise really as they (WOIO) seems to have dragged it's feet through this whole digital age that we're attempting to give birth to!!!

Thanks, I also found out that other people are having the same problem with 19 on D*TV. I just hope it's fixed before the NFL playoffs start!

Thanks, I also found out that other people are having the same problem with 19 on D*TV. I just hope it's fixed before the NFL playoffs start!

Hate to be a bearer of bad tidings but if this involves WOIO investing any money into it don't hold your breath. Once when we tried to get them to start broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 their answer was "you want 5.1? Let CBS pay for it."

It looks like channel 5 may be starting their news in HD very soon. The following information is from the Ohio Media Watch website.

"WEWS HD NEWS: You think, maybe, that Cleveland ABC affiliate WEWS/5 is converting its newscasts to the HDTV format?

Maybe.

Maybe that's why "NewsChannel 5" has done roughly 20 stories on buying a new HDTV set in the past week or so. We don't spend a LOT of time with the station, but we keep seeing those stories.

And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".

The move makes WEWS the third (!) HDTV news operation in the Cleveland market, turning Northeast Ohio into an elite market for HD news. WJW/8 "FOX 8" started the trend, and NBC affiliate WKYC/3 followed a few months ago."

It looks like channel 5 may be starting their news in HD very soon. The following information is from the Ohio Media Watch website.

"WEWS HD NEWS: You think, maybe, that Cleveland ABC affiliate WEWS/5 is converting its newscasts to the HDTV format?

Maybe.

Maybe that's why "NewsChannel 5" has done roughly 20 stories on buying a new HDTV set in the past week or so. We don't spend a LOT of time with the station, but we keep seeing those stories.

And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".

The move makes WEWS the third (!) HDTV news operation in the Cleveland market, turning Northeast Ohio into an elite market for HD news. WJW/8 "FOX 8" started the trend, and NBC affiliate WKYC/3 followed a few months ago."


Excellent "news" pardon the pun. I like to start watching the news around 5:00 pm and quite honestly I can't stand most of the people on FOX but it is HD news. I have always liked WEWS and I'll be looking forward to watching them in HD.

Inundated,
You were wondering how WOIO's HD football could look so good with multicasting and I think I found the reason - they allocate ~2Mbps fixed to the WeatherNow channel whereas WKYC does a stat mux which allocates ~4.5Mbps to WeatherPlus. Fortunately WKYC seems to have made the allocation more dynamic so Sunday Night Football looks better now than it did in the beginning of the season. Last week I saw the WKYC WeatherPlus channel dynamically drop to 2Mbps during action on an SNF game.

In the past few weeks Sunday Night Football OTA has been the best quality of all the stations except for some minor problems sometimes doing the slow focus bit when cutting from network commercial to the playing field. The HD commercials are equally good with the SD stuff very good except for some spiderwebbing text issues on my 46" Sony LCD XBR2.
JJK

You have two antennas, and two downleads. Each one goes into the STB. When you scan for channels, the system checks each channel, with each antenna input, and if there's no signal either way, it goes on, but if there is, it chooses the "best" one and locks on it. That way, you could have the benefit of two antennas in different directions but the ease and conveinence of seamless channel surfing without worrying about rotors, A/B switches, or any of that.

There's actually a simpler solution. It takes some playing, but I had a lot of success with it and haven't had to touch it one I got it set. If you have multiple antenna sources, just sum them together using a splitter (backwards).

I was having trouble getting the Youngstown stations (mostly UHF) at the same time I was getting Cleveland (mostly VHF). So I use two different antennas pointed in different directions, then sum them together....then I sum these with the channel 60 and 62 that Dish's VIP622 creates, and send this to each TV.

Even if an antennae gets one additional channel due to it's location or size, you should be able to add it to another antenna's signal that is missing this one channel...thereby getting all channels at the same time on one co-ax cable.

Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.

Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.

It should be there right at 19.1. That's where it was when I scanned with my S3 before cable card install.

That IS ex-Adelphia, right?

Either way, the answer should be yes. I can't remember what's "in the clear" on the Akron/Canton-based original TWC system, but the Cleveland system puts all the local broadcast DT/HD outlets in the clear, along with some other stuff...like the Indians (STO HD) and Cavs (FSN Ohio HD), even DiscoveryHD...and last time I checked, TNTHD.

Some stuff will require the box, like ESPNHD/ESPN2HD because it's not "broadcast basic" tier. i.e. if you have to pay then for the HD Tier channels, you'll need a box and won't get it on QAM.

But the DT/HD versions of 3, 5, 8, 19, 25 and 43 are all in the clear.


Thanks Inundated.

Anyone know if and when Time Warner plans to add Universal HD to their offerings? I am hoping to catch Battlestar Galactica Season 3 in widescreen and HD instead of SD on SciFi. I watched a free "catch up" episode on my iPod. It was a free download from the iTunes store labeled "The Story so Far" (45min.) It looked pretty good but watching it on a 3.5 inch screen made me wish it was a whole lot bigger and in Hi Def. The production values (lighting, effects, music etc.) looked pretty good.

Well, some TWC markets already have Universal HD. It is likely your market either doesn't have the bandwidth available (not as likely) or they didn't feel there was enough demand for it (more likely). You and all of your TWC subscribing friends need to contact your TWC office to request this channel and then hope they negotiate to have it added to your market.

Can anyone fill me in on why WOIO HD doesn't show up when I do a QAM channel scan? I know this isn't over the air reception but I'm really curious.

Probably a weak signal in your house. Try connecting the QAM tuner directly to the cable feed coming in the house with no other splitters connected.

QAM seems really sensitive to weak signals. It also helps to scan 2 or 3 times.

And we did happen to catch confirmation of an item the station first hinted about on its own website, which we passed along a few months ago: Anchor Leon Bibb noted the other day that "NewsChannel 5" will start being broadcast in HD "sometime next month".

They are currently building their HD control room. It shouldn't be long...

Anyone know if and when Time Warner plans to add Universal HD to their offerings? I am hoping to catch Battlestar Galactica Season 3 in widescreen and HD instead of SD on SciFi. I watched a free "catch up" episode on my iPod. It was a free download from the iTunes store labeled "The Story so Far" (45min.) It looked pretty good but watching it on a 3.5 inch screen made me wish it was a whole lot bigger and in Hi Def. The production values (lighting, effects, music etc.) looked pretty good.

Their is a member of this forum who drops in only once and a while named hanson. He has some contacts with people at TW (old Adelphia) and has already said the next two HD additions will be Universal and WNEO. He has never been wrong about anything he has said would be coming. He did not give a date on this however and it's been at least since October since we last heard from him.

You can try and pm him, I have and he's never responded.

Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.

Ben Music

Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.

Ben Music


Huh? I never heard that.

Hate to be a bearer of bad tidings but if this involves WOIO investing any money into it don't hold your breath. Once when we tried to get them to start broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 their answer was "you want 5.1? Let CBS pay for it."

Whatever the problem was, it's fixed. WOIO 19 HD is now working on D*TV.

Any1 getting the Cavs/ Hawks game in hd tonight?
FSN HD is just showing a logo tonight.
I'm in Medina on Armstrong.

Thx

Any1 getting the Cavs/ Hawks game in hd tonight?
FSN HD is just showing a logo tonight.
I'm in Medina on Armstrong.

Thx
No FSN HD game on WOW cable either although it shows up in the on-screen guide as well as the schedule posted on the FSN HD website.

Don't forget that INHD-2 goes away on 1/1/07. Maybe Universal or WNEO will be the replacement.

Ben Music

Well, since I didn't get a response to my post I went to the source. I called TW and they confirmed that they are dropping INHD-2 on the above mentioned date. I asked specifically about Universal replaceing it and he gave me the "to be determined" canned line.

Explanation for cancelling INHD2 was you can get all programs on one channel. Personally I don't watch that much and I don't care but there are some MLB games they show and I won't be to happy if they start showing them on INHD2 instead of INHD.

We will see.

As I understand it, it isn't TW that's dropping INHD2. The parent company of INHD (iN Demand) is dropping it. There will be no more INHD2 anywhere. I'm on Cox cable and we won't have INHD2 either.

They are using the spin that they are "combining" the two stations to make us feel as though we aren't losing anything. I suspect (pure speculation on my part) that they are finding that the constant repetition of shows on two channels isn't that popular or cost effective, so they will just show the same programs a bit less frequently on one channel. I'm guessing the only programming we will actually lose will be that which they decide isn't popular.

While not actually losing any programs, the reality is, of course, that we will have one less choice in our HDTV lineups at any given time of the day. I wouldn't mind if Cox would just pick up HDNet and HDNet movies.

Huh? I never heard that.

True, Read this..... (http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6388356.html)

InHD and InHD2 are merging into one on Jan. 1st and are even thinking about changing names. Possibly Mojo!?

I kind of wondered if that wasn't the case, I just thought "evil cable company, cuts back on channels". :)

The rep never mentioned that it was In Demand that was cutting out INHD2.

Rijax, HDnet Movies can be cool, they come up with some good stuff. Quality of their older stuff can sometimes be marginal at best but some great classic movies to watch in HD. The other day I watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest", Jack Nicholson at his finest. It was a blast.

There's actually a simpler solution. It takes some playing, but I had a lot of success with it and haven't had to touch it one I got it set. If you have multiple antenna sources, just sum them together using a splitter (backwards).

I was having trouble getting the Youngstown stations (mostly UHF) at the same time I was getting Cleveland (mostly VHF). So I use two different antennas pointed in different directions, then sum them together....then I sum these with the channel 60 and 62 that Dish's VIP622 creates, and send this to each TV.

Even if an antennae gets one additional channel due to it's location or size, you should be able to add it to another antenna's signal that is missing this one channel...thereby getting all channels at the same time on one co-ax cable.

In my experience, since I *almost* get most Cleveland digital stations even when aimed at Youngstown, I'd think the two antennas together would cause severe multipath issues for the Cleveland and Akron stations with two antennas together. Analog is different, I can get most analogs fairly clear out of Cleveland even when I aim at Youngstown, with the exception of WEWS and WVIZ.

For digital, the signal strength of the Cleveland stations jumps from 0 to 100 or whatever not allowing me to lock, but it's strong enough to worry about multipath.

Although, some suggest that if both cables (the coax to each antenna) are identical in length prior to the combiner, you can avoid much of that. What I would wonder is, if you put a preamp on the Youngstown antenna but NOT the Cleveland one, does the length of the preamp count in the antenna length or not?

I'm in Medina on Armstrong.

Thx

Hey Brian,

Do you get guide data for the NFL Network both HD and SD? How about STO? There are several others that just show TBD on my box, but I don't want to have to set up a service call if it's a system-wide thing.

Thanks!

hookbill,

See private message.

Ben Music

In my experience, since I *almost* get most Cleveland digital stations even when aimed at Youngstown, I'd think the two antennas together would cause severe multipath issues for the Cleveland and Akron stations with two antennas together. Analog is different, I can get most analogs fairly clear out of Cleveland even when I aim at Youngstown, with the exception of WEWS and WVIZ.

For digital, the signal strength of the Cleveland stations jumps from 0 to 100 or whatever not allowing me to lock, but it's strong enough to worry about multipath.

Although, some suggest that if both cables (the coax to each antenna) are identical in length prior to the combiner, you can avoid much of that. What I would wonder is, if you put a preamp on the Youngstown antenna but NOT the Cleveland one, does the length of the preamp count in the antenna length or not?

All I can suggest is to try it. Antenna signals are a bit of voodoo. I am in a similar situation. The length of the cable didn't concern me, only that I got 95% from CLE in one antenna, and 78% from YNG in the other antenna. I then combined and uses a signal amplifier with FM trap. Maybe the combination lowered both a little, but not much.

You can also try to amplify only one of the two. I actually use an attenuator later in the chain on the VIP622 signal. Give it a try and see what works for your setup. I think you'll be better off than one antenna by itself.

If you get your digital channels OTA, you may find this interesting. A test was done to determine how a digital channel would interfere with an analog.

The following example was done in Kentucky with a channel 15. The first picture is an analog signal which is 79 miles away. It is an excellent and viewable picture. The second picture is the same analog signal taken 30 seconds later after a digital channel 15 signs on at 59 miles away. You will see how the digital channel causes major interference with the analog picture.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/15-wkpc-1.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/15-wkpc-2.jpg

Now when it came to the digital channel 15, the analog didn't seem to cause any problems for the digital. Here is the digital signal picture...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/15-wkmr-DT-2.jpg

Thanks everyone for info on Universal HD. I was just browsing and saw inhd2 has nothing listed after Jan 1 so that seems like a done deal. Safe to say all we want is more HD!

I kind of wondered if that wasn't the case, I just thought "evil cable company, cuts back on channels". :) A perfectly reasonable assumption! :)

Rijax, HDnet Movies can be cool, they come up with some good stuff. Quality of their older stuff can sometimes be marginal at best but some great classic movies to watch in HD. The other day I watched "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest", Jack Nicholson at his finest. It was a blast. Thanks, Hookbill. That is precisely why I'm hoping Cox will get their rear in gear and pick them up. Believe it or not, the last time I talked to Cox CS and recommended picking up both HDNet Channels, the rep said "gee, I've never heard of them." http://www.curvesforum.com/forum/images/smilies/oh-non.gif http://www.curvesforum.com/forum/images/smilie/help.gif

I am an "old" movie freak (I was going to say "buff" but decided that was too soft). However, at my age, I consider One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest to be a "contemporary" movie. ;) When I say "old," I mean "older than me." I'm talking Gone With The Wind and Casablanca. http://www.curvesforum.com/forum/images/smilies/new05d/old.gif :D

A perfectly reasonable assumption! :)

I am an "old" movie freak (I was going to say "buff" but decided that was too soft). However, at my age, I consider One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest to be a "contemporary" movie. ;) When I say "old," I mean "older than me." I'm talking Gone With The Wind and Casablanca. http://www.curvesforum.com/forum/images/smilies/new05d/old.gif :D

Yes, I'm 54 so I understand what you mean. To be honest I don't think HDnet Movies has that in it's library, thats more like TCM. My wife is only 39 and she has not seen a great deal of what you and I consider "contemporary" movies. She thinks of these as old movies and it's hard to get her to watch them but I enjoy seeing them again. I've talked to her about "Gone With The Wind" - she has zero interest. :(

You can also try to amplify only one of the two.
Careful doing this! The amplified output will have elevated noise (by the gain of the amplifier) and could mask or override signals from the unamplified leg. I wouldn't suggest this approach....

I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.

Inhd2 will be dropped starting jan 1st, also TWC just picked up MtvHD and A&E Hd, who knows what cleveland will get though, it could be universal, MTvHD, or A&E hd, or nothing :) sorry I have been away for a while, we just opened a subway at the new brimfield walmart and for the last two months I have been working non stop there, so I thought I would come and see how my old friends were doing here in the cleveland OTA forum (by the way I will be back on more now). I have Directv HD, with a antenna hooked up, and I HATE directvs way of giving us OTA, I dont have 19-2, 17-5, and all of nbc for over the air, baiscally the way they do it for their Hr20-700 is feed guide data through for the channels they pick out, and thats the ones you get. There is no scanning, there is no nothing of adding those few channels from other markets, oh well I hope it changes, but who knows how much longer I am going to be with Directv as their rates are rumored to be going up, and if thats the case, even though time warner dosent have alot of HD it might just be for me. enjoy guys, hope to catch up with all of you, and whats been going on here in the forum

I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.

The signal strength could be low or there cound be ingress on that frequency which could degrade the C/N ratio enough to cause problems. Make sure the RF connections are tight. Go outside and look for a splitter on the side of the house and check those connectors also.

I'll check the connections. I did check about 5 of the supposed digital channels, so I think its everything, not just that frequency (channel). Is it possible for the signal to be just that low? If so, if we actually had digital cable here, would it not work, or would the STB that came from TWC boost the signal?

Ok behind the tv there is a splitter, and the 2 outs are 3.5 db? Is that a problem?

... but who knows how much longer I am going to be with Directv as their rates are rumored to be going up, and if thats the case, even though time warner dosent have alot of HD it might just be for me. enjoy guys, hope to catch up with all of you, and whats been going on here in the forum

FYI, TWC's rates have gone up in some markets. If I were paying full price for my cable it would be significantly more expensive than D*, but if TWC provides more of what you need and you can afford the price then more power to you.

terryforster, just curious. Are they using Switched Video in your area?

FYI, TWC's rates have gone up in some markets. If I were paying full price for my cable it would be significantly more expensive than D*, but if TWC provides more of what you need and you can afford the price then more power to you.

I checked with them for satellite buy back, and for 99 dollars a month, I would get digital cable, Phone, and Full speed Roadrunner, for 18 months, then it could only go up by 10 dollars the year after that, and the year after that...add on the 6.95 for HD, and the 5.99 for dvr, plus taxes, and it is about twenty dollars cheaper then what my wife and I are paying now, before any directv rate increase, and 10 dollar SBC increase (after our DSL is up, their new Dsl rates)

I checked with them for satellite buy back, and for 99 dollars a month, I would get digital cable, Phone, and Full speed Roadrunner, for 18 months, then it could only go up by 10 dollars the year after that, and the year after that...add on the 6.95 for HD, and the 5.99 for dvr, plus taxes, and it is about twenty dollars cheaper then what my wife and I are paying now, before any directv rate increase, and 10 dollar SBC increase (after our DSL is up, their new Dsl rates)

I'd find out what they mean by "full speed" Roadrunner. It may be actually their "lowest" speed, maybe not but I'd want to make sure.

Now let's talk about the DVR. :) If you have the HR20 you probably have a better DVR. Are you leasing that from D* or did you purchase it before they started renting them? Anyway the SA 8300 is a real piece of garbage. I went through 3 of them in 2 years time. Mine got partial recordings at least twice a week, you cannot record first run only and as a result of that if a show is playing lets say on Tuesday at 8:00 and they have it again on Friday at 8:00 it will record it again. Big deal, you can erase it, right? Maybe. Because if you happen to have 2 shows recording on that Friday and it attempts to record that other show you will have NOTHING recorded. And you won't receive a conflict warning. It will warn you about a conflict if you try to record a show on a day and time you already have two scheduled on but that's it.

You only get 1 week of guide info. The quality of the recordings are sometimes very bad. I've had to sit through some shows that sound like R2D2 was cutting in every once in a while. Quality of analog shows can be real bad. Digital shows are not so bad.

And speaking of digital you are aware that yo don't get digital until you get past channel 100.

Just thought I'd give you my opinion on it. There is something you can do to rectify all this. Right now you can buy one from the TCF store for 650.00 Expensive but so much better. The TiVo S3. It's the only way to go.

I'd find out what they mean by "full speed" Roadrunner. It may be actually their "lowest" speed, maybe not but I'd want to make sure.

Now let's talk about the DVR. :) If you have the HR20 you probably have a better DVR. Are you leasing that from D* or did you purchase it before they started renting them? Anyway the SA 8300 is a real piece of garbage. I went through 3 of them in 2 years time. Mine got partial recordings at least twice a week, you cannot record first run only and as a result of that if a show is playing lets say on Tuesday at 8:00 and they have it again on Friday at 8:00 it will record it again. Big deal, you can erase it, right? Maybe. Because if you happen to have 2 shows recording on that Friday and it attempts to record that other show you will have NOTHING recorded. And you won't receive a conflict warning. It will warn you about a conflict if you try to record a show on a day and time you already have two scheduled on but that's it.

You only get 1 week of guide info. The quality of the recordings are sometimes very bad. I've had to sit through some shows that sound like R2D2 was cutting in every once in a while. Quality of analog shows can be real bad. Digital shows are not so bad.

And speaking of digital you are aware that yo don't get digital until you get past channel 100.

Just thought I'd give you my opinion on it. There is something you can do to rectify all this. Right now you can buy one from the TCF store for 650.00 Expensive but so much better. The TiVo S3. It's the only way to go.

The Hr20, while nice, is not real reliable. I have been through 4-5 different machines. Before I start, please dont think I am against Directv in anyway, I will tell you why we are thinking about switching. I love my Directv service, and the only thing I have against it are, I have a 50 lb satellite dish on my roof, and the Hr20 resets itself once to twice a week. I do like my Hr20, and the problems I have had are pretty normal from reading at satelliteguys.us and dbstalk.com. I was sent 3 boxes in a row, each with a bad 2nd tuner, meaning I could only record a show, or watch a show, no combo of the two. The first unit (what started all the swapping) was overheating and shutting itself off. All this and the Hr20 has only been out what 3-4 months, Also it seems that they have their act together now, for the most part, and other then the freezes/reboots, it records pretty much what I want it to. I dont do a ton of recording (5-6 shows a week) so I am not relying on it that much. Also about the 650 for the tivo, I have already spent my play money for the year, as I bought a Ps3 for the Bluray, and Love it, so I dont think I will swap that for the tivo series 3! :) I wish I could. Here is the reason we are trying to cut any corner we can, we are 25, my wife and I, and we just found out we are expecting our first child, so alot of things we are going to be doing without so we can afford to stay in the house we are in, and have her take time off of work. I wont be getting the sunday ticket for a while, and with directv and SBC we are promised rate increases every year, while with Time warner, with this deal, we are given at least 3-4 years where we know what are rates are going to be, they will be locked in. Also I did check into their Road Runner claim, and it is not Road Runner lite, but the full blown Road Runner (it seems me and you think the same in alot of areas, because I asked all the questions you just had me check, as I try to see beyond their marketing ploys!)

terryforster, just curious. Are they using Switched Video in your area?

I don't believe they are. I contacted a L3 tech awhile ago and they didn't believe we were on SDV. I was able to somewhat confirm this by using the diagnosis mode on my cable box and getting a unique QAM channel and program id for all of the channels I investigated. This is even with digital simulcast. The only sign I think would lead me to believe we switched to SDV would be an increase in HD channels that hasn't happened.

The Hr20, while nice, is not real reliable. I have been through 4-5 different machines. Before I start, please dont think I am against Directv in anyway, I will tell you why we are thinking about switching. I love my Directv service, and the only thing I have against it are, I have a 50 lb satellite dish on my roof, and the Hr20 resets itself once to twice a week. I do like my Hr20, and the problems I have had are pretty normal from reading at satelliteguys.us and dbstalk.com. I was sent 3 boxes in a row, each with a bad 2nd tuner, meaning I could only record a show, or watch a show, no combo of the two. The first unit (what started all the swapping) was overheating and shutting itself off. All this and the Hr20 has only been out what 3-4 months, Also it seems that they have their act together now, for the most part, and other then the freezes/reboots, it records pretty much what I want it to. I dont do a ton of recording (5-6 shows a week) so I am not relying on it that much. Also about the 650 for the tivo, I have already spent my play money for the year, as I bought a Ps3 for the Bluray, and Love it, so I dont think I will swap that for the tivo series 3! :) I wish I could. Here is the reason we are trying to cut any corner we can, we are 25, my wife and I, and we just found out we are expecting our first child, so alot of things we are going to be doing without so we can afford to stay in the house we are in, and have her take time off of work. I wont be getting the sunday ticket for a while, and with directv and SBC we are promised rate increases every year, while with Time warner, with this deal, we are given at least 3-4 years where we know what are rates are going to be, they will be locked in. Also I did check into their Road Runner claim, and it is not Road Runner lite, but the full blown Road Runner (it seems me and you think the same in alot of areas, because I asked all the questions you just had me check, as I try to see beyond their marketing ploys!)


I understand and you shouldn't buy something you really can't afford so your doing the right thing. I should mention to that my experience with the SA 8300 is not the same as everybody. I know some people who actually think it's pretty good and didn't have the partial recording issues I had. However I stand by the quality of the recordings not being that great but I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the S3. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Sounds like you did your homework. And congratulations to you and your wife.

I don't believe they are. I contacted a L3 tech awhile ago and they didn't believe we were on SDV. I was able to somewhat confirm this by using the diagnosis mode on my cable box and getting a unique QAM channel and program id for all of the channels I investigated. This is even with digital simulcast. The only sign I think would lead me to believe we switched to SDV would be an increase in HD channels that hasn't happened.

I see a lot on the TiVo forum with people who have to deal with it. Seems Dallas is a big SDV area. Many of the SDV channels arn't on HD, and it seems like the HD that they had before going to SDV stayed on the regular cable. In other words if ESPN2 was on before SDV it stayed there but if they added lets say Universal then that would go to SDV.

In any case I think if and when it comes it will probably hit your area before it comes up here. From what I heard they are going to unify the TW in our area in June 07.

I understand and you shouldn't buy something you really can't afford so your doing the right thing. I should mention to that my experience with the SA 8300 is not the same as everybody. I know some people who actually think it's pretty good and didn't have the partial recording issues I had. However I stand by the quality of the recordings not being that great but I really didn't realize how bad it was until I got the S3. Ignorance is bliss as they say.

Sounds like you did your homework. And congratulations to you and your wife.

thank you for your warm wishes. I believe, and this is based on all readings at forums that cable has another ace up its sleeve with SDV, we will see how it pans out. I know it may take a while for cable to add the HD that satellite companies are adding, but it will get there, also for the time being I am not concerned as I probably wont have much time for tv.

I'll check the connections. I did check about 5 of the supposed digital channels, so I think its everything, not just that frequency (channel). Is it possible for the signal to be just that low? If so, if we actually had digital cable here, would it not work, or would the STB that came from TWC boost the signal?

Ok behind the tv there is a splitter, and the 2 outs are 3.5 db? Is that a problem?

The splitter divides the signal evenly between the two ports. In logrithmic terms, 3db represents half the signal, so each output is 3.5db lower than the signal level at the input to the splitter.

You can try bypassing the splitter and going directly into the device in question. This effectively doubles the signal level going to that set. If your digital problems go away, then you've found the culprit - low levels.

Also, there's more than one digital channel transmitted on each QAM. If you're looking at SD channels, there can be anywhere from 8-14 channels on that single QAM frequency. If there's ingress on that frequency, it wil interfere with all of those channels.

Good luck and keep us posted.

The splitter divides the signal evenly between the two ports. In logrithmic terms, 3db represents half the signal, so each output is 3.5db lower than the signal level at the input to the splitter.

You can try bypassing the splitter and going directly into the device in question. This effectively doubles the signal level going to that set. If your digital problems go away, then you've found the culprit - low levels.

Also, there's more than one digital channel transmitted on each QAM. If you're looking at SD channels, there can be anywhere from 8-14 channels on that single QAM frequency. If there's ingress on that frequency, it wil interfere with all of those channels.

Good luck and keep us posted.


Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.

I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.

Cathode Kid:
Are there any brands of splitters that have less than 3 db loss?
JJK

Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.

I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.

Have TW come out and do a signal check at your home. They will check every connection to make sure it is what it should be. If you need an amplifier they will giveyou one. If you need a signal decreased in a certain direction they have splitters that can decrease the signal in one direction while not changing it in another. This won't cost you anything but your time. This is what they did when they hooked up my cable cards on my S3.

Hey I just saw something in the TiVo forum that was kind of interesting about SDV. Apparently it is full board in Rochester NY. Look here (http://www.timewarnercable.com/rochester/products/cablecard.html) and you can see what people can get with SDV and what they get with cable cards. I'll bet this will eventually be the future for people like me who own the S3. Not too bad as far as I'm concerned.

Cathode Kid:
Are there any brands of splitters that have less than 3 db loss?
JJK
Nope. 3dB is one half of the total signal.
So 1/2 of the signal goes to output A and 1/2 of the signal goes to output B.
But powered splitters (drop amps) are available.

Well all this is almost obsolete because I'm leaving in a few hours, but I have yet to get it working. I guess first off I'm confused as to which channel numbers I should be looking at, since I'm technically not using OTA or TWC's digital cable. Or am I using TWC digital? If that's the case, then channel 211 should be a local network's DT broadcast. I go to it, and check out the signal meter it is 0. If I go to 2.1 though, the signal meter reads 56 (58 when I bypass the splitter). Apparently that is still not enough of a signal, because it just gives me the message about digital signal strength low.

I did find the splitters in the basement that get split off the main line, and all of those connections were tight. In two words... I'm lost.

Yes, you're using TWC digital. But the channel number 211 you see on a TWC set top box may not have any relation to what you punch in on your TV's tuner. The cable company usually internally remaps/renumbers channels in their on screen guides to make the channels easier to navigate. What you're trying to do is skip the set top box and pick up the "raw" digital cable signal from TWC, and when you do that the channel numbering is very different. Have you done a complete channel scan on the TV to see what cable (QAM) channels it finds? On my LG LCD TV it will scan all the analog cable channels into memory first, then all the over-the-air channels, then all the digital cable channels. I can then go into the setup menus and view/edit the digital cable channels it has memorized.

The QAM channel numbers can be all over the place, you might get something with a dash like 115-3 or a plain three digit number like 501 or 202. Some tuners are so poorly designed they don't give you a way to punch in the QAM subchannel channel number (i.e., no way to key in the dash-3 in my 115-3 example). The only way to tune these is to have the TV memorize them and channel up/down to them.

I'm at my aunt and uncles house for the weekend in avon lake, and he's got an hdtv with an atsc and qam tuner. (Toshiba 50hp66) He's got standard cable it seems, but when I type in channel 211 for example, which should be nbc-dt, the tv says "Digital Signal Strength is Low" and nothing else appears. The coax run to the tv from the wall is short, so I'm wondering if there's anything I am missing or something I can do to watch me some HD? Thanks.

I have an LG QAM tuner, and my channel numbers don't match those of TWC. Here in Lyndhurst, formerly Adelphia, the channels I get are:

84-2, 84-3, 84-4, 84-5, 84-6, 84-8 Local stations non HD
86-3 Discovery HD
88-1 Bonus HD (Cavs and Indians usually)
88-3 TNT HD
90-13 Logo
103-3, 103-10 Local weather subchannels
104-3 NBC HD
104-6 WUAB HD
105-5 ABC HD
105-8 FOX HD
113-2 PBS HD
113-2 CBS HD

Also, you may want to look at the owner's manual for the TV. Do you need to do anything special to select the QAM tuner as an input? Is there a way to tell the QAM tuner to scan for channels?

Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you should be sure the tuner is active before you start chasing down wiring problems.

Lighting Guy,
Also make sure you've connected the cable to the proper coax input on the back of the TV. I vaguely remember someone with a Sharp LCD that had 3 coax inputs on the back and only 1 of them was connected to the digital cable (QAM) tuner. The other two coax inputs only tuned over-the-air or analog cable channels.

Have TW come out and do a signal check at your home. They will check every connection to make sure it is what it should be. If you need an amplifier they will giveyou one. If you need a signal decreased in a certain direction they have splitters that can decrease the signal in one direction while not changing it in another. This won't cost you anything but your time. This is what they did when they hooked up my cable cards on my S3.

Well like I mentioned I'm leaving today, but if my Aunt and Uncle are interested I'll let them know.

Also, you may want to look at the owner's manual for the TV. Do you need to do anything special to select the QAM tuner as an input? Is there a way to tell the QAM tuner to scan for channels?

Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but you should be sure the tuner is active before you start chasing down wiring problems.

There is no options in the set up menus for digital or qam or anything like that. I would manualy go channel to channel, but it takes so long for the tv to load a single channel like that. Oh well, might be what I have to do since i don't know exactly what channel I'm looking for.

I did look throug the manual first thing when it didn't work how I thought it would. The manual is, <sarcasim> surprisingly </sarcasim>, useless.

Lighting Guy,
Also make sure you've connected the cable to the proper coax input on the back of the TV. I vaguely remember someone with a Sharp LCD that had 3 coax inputs on the back and only 1 of them was connected to the digital cable (QAM) tuner. The other two coax inputs only tuned over-the-air or analog cable channels.

Yep, thought of that too, and even checked the back of the tv and manual again cause I wasn't sure.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I'll see what else I can figure out.

Ok so an apology to everyone as it turns out I have found some digital cable channels, Chris Isble was right and they were just random channels on the tv.

Newest problem though is I just found a cbs station with the browns game, great. Info says its 1080i, full. But it is not 16x9, it looks more like 4x3, with black bars on the side. The pic size button for the tv does not work when the tv is displaying hd. Any ideas?

Ok so an apology to everyone as it turns out I have found some digital cable channels, Chris Isble was right and they were just random channels on the tv.

Newest problem though is I just found a cbs station with the browns game, great. Info says its 1080i, full. But it is not 16x9, it looks more like 4x3, with black bars on the side. The pic size button for the tv does not work when the tv is displaying hd. Any ideas?

The Browns game is NOT in HD today. The black bars are normal for an SD presentation. I don't believe WOIO is showing any of the HD games today.

However, using OTA for FOX 8.1, I am not getting the game in HD. I thought all FOX NFL games were shown in HD. No?

That's lame, just out of curiosity, why does the tv think its getting HD at 1080i?

The Browns game is NOT in HD today. The black bars are normal for an SD presentation. I don't believe WOIO is showing any of the HD games today.

However, using OTA for FOX 8.1, I am not getting the game in HD. I thought all FOX NFL games were shown in HD. No?

Something is wrong at WJW today, the game should be HD but it's not. I called engineering and left a message.

Sorry, Lighting Guy, you finally got it figured out but both football games aren't HD, LOL ! FYI, the 4pm CBS game won't be HD either. The Bears game on NBC tonight will be HD for sure.

Jeez, now the audio on the Browns game just went whacky!

That's lame, just out of curiosity, why does the tv think its getting HD at 1080i?

The TV *is* getting a 1080i signal, but the station has encapsulated a crappy 4:3 standard definition picture inside of it.

The CBS network can only do 3 games on Sunday in HD due to limitations at their operations center. As a result, they pick the best 3 matchups for the HD treatment and all the other teams get SD. Since the Browns are at the bottom of the NFL barrel, they rarely get broadcast in HD.

The Fox network on the other hand can do 6 games simultaneously in HD, so almost all of them are HD.

Something is wrong at WJW today, the game should be HD but it's not. I called engineering and left a message.
I talked to someone at 216-432-4240 and he said he just received a call about this. He asked if it could possibly be the cable company and I said no, I saw people complaining about it OTA as well. He said he's already alerted master control but will mention it again. I told him that this seems to be local only, on the internet other people are receiving the game in HD just fine.

Feel free to call. The more calls the faster it will get fixed. :)

Thanks paule123 for all your help. That' just classic that I figure it out now and can't "use it." Oh well, in two days when I'm home I'll hook up my new hdtv and myhd 130 and see how good HD is then.

Ok! WJW HD is fixed. Game is now in 16x9 HD via OTA 8.1

Ok! WJW HD is fixed. Game is now in 16x9 HD via OTA 8.1

Yep. I wonder what happened?

I talked to someone at 216-xxx-xxxx and he said he just received a call about this.
(snip)
Feel free to call. The more calls the faster it will get fixed. :)

Hookbill,

Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.

ck

The TV *is* getting a 1080i signal, but the station has encapsulated a crappy 4:3 standard definition picture inside of it.

This is something that confuses the dickens out of the average viewer. Their display says '1080i' but the picture could be a postage-stamp SD signal. The station broadcasts 1080i sync pulses with a 480i signal nestled neatly in the middle of them. It's like projecting a small movie image on a wide screen.

Hookbill,

Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.

ck

WJW's new "mycleveland.com" website conveniently provides NO contact information. No phone number, no email addresses. I had to look WJW up in whitepages.com and take a random guess at which number to call out of a half dozen listings. At least the other Cleveland affiliates provide easy to access contact info and phone numbers.

WJW's new "mycleveland.com" website conveniently provides NO contact information. No phone number, no email addresses. I had to look WJW up in whitepages.com and take a random guess at which number to call out of a half dozen listings. At least the other Cleveland affiliates provide easy to access contact info and phone numbers.

The station should be encouraged to provide a public phone number on their website. In the meantime, publishing an internal engineering number without their permission is not a way to win any favors with them.

Hookbill,

Could you edit your post to exclude the phone number? They're likely to change it if they wind up getting a lot of calls from all over the place, which could be disruptive for them.

ck

I could but it isn't a number directly to their engineering. It's the number they have listed for phone calls. I found it by doing a google, it wasn't that difficult.

I posted it here for the benefit of our local viewers. I really don't see the harm in doing that. Take a look here (http://cleveland.citysearch.com/profile/36010490/cleveland_oh/wjw_fox_8_cleveland.html) . Nothing private about it. Anyway, you copied the post with the number in it as well. :D :D

I could but it isn't a number directly to their engineering. It's the number they have listed for phone calls. I found it by doing a google, it wasn't that difficult.

Oh, sorry about that. If it's a listed number, then that's cool.


Anyway, you copied the post with the number in it as well. :D :D

Nope. Take another look! :)

I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.
But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?

I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.
But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?

My sense was they don't intend to replace it with anything. The rep I spoke to told me they wern't taking anything away since all shows can be seen on INHD.

Still rumours persist about Universal, A&E, and unfortunately, MTV.

Also keep in mind, this was not a Time Warner decision. It was an In Demand decision to cut back to one INHD.

Still, I feel ripped off!

I noticed INHD2 has been removed (as previously discussed) on Time Warner Cable.
But it has been replaced with NOTHING? Anybody have any info on this?


Espn2HD is also a presistent rumor, supposedly they are working on a deal, but also remember that the gentleman who handled Time warners Contracts as a whole just retired, and the woman is taking over right now, so it could be a while for her to get her feet wet, or she could try and wow people and make some good contracts, only time will tell!

My sense was they don't intend to replace it with anything. The rep I spoke to told me they wern't taking anything away since all shows can be seen on INHD.

Still rumours persist about Universal, A&E, and unfortunately, MTV.

Also keep in mind, this was not a Time Warner decision. It was an In Demand decision to cut back to one INHD.

Still, I feel ripped off!

InHD was launched at a time when there was very little HD programming available. In a sense it was cable's version of the NBC Peacock, born for the primary purpose of showing off the technology. Now that HD technology is becoming less expensive and more producers are turning out HD content, there have been several additions to the HD lineup, including Discovery HD. Personally I'd much rather have less duplication of content and leave more room for new services. After all, I can only watch so many scenes of rolling hills in Scotland... ;)

Espn2HD is also a presistent rumor, supposedly they are working on a deal, but also remember that the gentleman who handled Time warners Contracts as a whole just retired, and the woman is taking over right now, so it could be a while for her to get her feet wet, or she could try and wow people and make some good contracts, only time will tell!

ESPN2HD is already part of the line up. Has been for sometime now. Are you old Comcast?

ESPN2HD is already part of the line up. Has been for sometime now. Are you old Comcast?

Wait, what? TWC (non-former Adelphia) in your area doesn't have ESPN2HD in their lineup. You may be lucky being a former Adelpha customer with having ESPN2HD, but everyone else is missing it.

Bill, Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?