Happy New Years everyone. Here is the update on WEWS HD news. It looks like Action News will also become HD possibly very soon after WEWS. The following is quoted from Ohio Media Watch.

"Our source tells us you can expect to see Ted Henry, Lee Jordan, Leon Bibb, Danita Harris and the gang in HD "by late January".

Not only that, the scuttlebutt is - and are you sitting down, folks? - that Raycom Media CBS/MyNetworkTV combo WOIO/19-WUAB/43's "19 Action News" is also getting ready for an HDTV local news conversion. The rumor mill says that was actually also supposed to be done next month, but will be delayed...so WEWS would presumably beat WOIO to the HD punch.

Whenever "19 Action News" completes its HD control room, that will make Cleveland - as far as we know - the only television market in the country with all four of its local news operations in HD. (We forgot to check the sky around Reserve Square for airborne porcine creatures.)"

Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?

It's hasn't changed since TW took over.

Whenever "19 Action News" completes its HD control room, that will make Cleveland - as far as we know - the only television market in the country with all four of its local news operations in HD. (We forgot to check the sky around Reserve Square for airborne porcine creatures.)"[/I]

Oh, gee, great. Just what I always wanted. :rolleyes: Inundated will be happy, though!

But when are we going to get all four in DD 5.1? How much you want to bet WOIO will go HD but won't spring for the 5 grand for the audio encoder? And what's the story with channel 5? I thought I had heard they were going to 5.1 "soon."

Can anyone tell me, if the locals can broadcast their news shows in HD, why on earth the networks are unable to do so? :confused:

Watching the Rose Bowl (OTA-HD) I noticed that the typical field shot contained small double images of the players while the close ups were great. And while overall shots of the fans plus the field showed the fans way overexposed. Then closeups of the fans were perfect. the commercials and in-house commentary was perfect. Also notice during the Rose Parade that one of the cameras showed predominently purple and green.
Also noticed during the previous game by ESPN (OTA-HD) the quality overall was not as good as the local broadcasts. Has the ESPN stuff received and transmitted locally been recoded?
JJK

All I can suggest is to try it. Antenna signals are a bit of voodoo. I am in a similar situation. The length of the cable didn't concern me, only that I got 95% from CLE in one antenna, and 78% from YNG in the other antenna. I then combined and uses a signal amplifier with FM trap. Maybe the combination lowered both a little, but not much.

You can also try to amplify only one of the two. I actually use an attenuator later in the chain on the VIP622 signal. Give it a try and see what works for your setup. I think you'll be better off than one antenna by itself.

If you either don't have D* or E*, OR, you don't care about integrating OTA, there are a fair number of tv's out there now with dual RF antenna inputs. Typically one is marked "air" and one cable, but from what I've read, most of them will accept an ATSC signal in either or both, just that only one is QAM compatible for cable. So you could hook an antenna into each one aimed in different directions.

Watching the Rose Bowl (OTA-HD) I noticed that the typical field shot contained small double images of the players while the close ups were great. And while overall shots of the fans plus the field showed the fans way overexposed. Then closeups of the fans were perfect. the commercials and in-house commentary was perfect. Also notice during the Rose Parade that one of the cameras showed predominently purple and green.
Also noticed during the previous game by ESPN (OTA-HD) the quality overall was not as good as the local broadcasts. Has the ESPN stuff received and transmitted locally been recoded?
JJK

I didn't notice exposure problems or double images on the WCPO-DT broadcast of the Rose Bowl so I'm not sure what caused the problem you saw. It might have been your affiliate, your equipment, or your network path it's hard to say.

By the "previous game" do you mean the Citrus (Capital One) Bowl on ABC? This game can still be considered an ABC production, but the difference is it has the ESPN branding that all sporting events on ABC have had this season. Not all the equipment Disney uses for live sporting productions are equal. They probably decided to send the better equipment to other bowls and sent lesser equipment to the Citrus Bowl.

Bill, Twc does not have Espn2hd, as far as I know, I was just over my neighbors house and didnt see it anywhere, did they leave it on for old adelphia customers?

Yep I still have it too.

Don't know if anyone else saw this last night. I was flipping around and noticed WUAB-DT was broadcasting a test pattern. This was sometime late in the 10:00 hour. It was some kind of MY TV test pattern slide with what looked like info about the times for local breaks during the show. The analog WUAB had normal programming on (Action News). Evidentally, someone was asleep at the switch. Normally, I would have tried to contact the station to let them know they had a problem on their digital channel, but since it was Action News that was supposed to be showing, I figured I was doing society a favor by NOT letting them know. I'll bet the test pattern received higher ratings! :)

Interestingly, in the 11 o'clock, hour, they were showing one of those dopey MY TV soaps, which I think usually are broadcast in primetime. They were showing their regularly scheduled stuff on the analog channel (old sitcoms). I don't know how long this went on; I didn't bother to check in anymore after that.What you saw was the raw MNTV network feed. Someone at master control forgot to flip the switch again. This has happened on other stations as well. If noone catches it you will see the west-coast feed at 11 PM (that is why you saw a program that was supposed to air at 8 PM at 11). Thisused tohappen on WEWS all the time at 11 PM, and at least once on WOIO after the late football game (got a CBS NYC test pattern for 40 minutes or so during the time "60 Minutes" was on the analog station).

I looked at TitianTV's listings and they did not even have data for 49.3, so that won't help me much.

As for my setup, I have a PC dedicated to TV.
3Ghz processor
1GB RAM
NVidia 6800 graphics card with DVI out to a 19" widescreen (16:10) monitor.
1 Air2PC ATSC only capture card
160GB Hard Drive for recordings
My sound card supports 5.1 audio but I haven't hooked it up yet.

For software I run MythTV .20 on Ubuntu Linux. The Air2PC is a DVB card and it is supported by the linux kernal so there was nothing to configure to get the tuner working.

MYHD, Record_This and MediaPortal are probably not going to be working for me since I am running Linux instead of Windows although the MYHD card does have Linux drivers in development. I believe that I could get the QAM reception over cable if I had it but I am only receiving OTA channels currently. I have a rooftop antenna oriented at about 330 deg and get 3,5,8,17,19,27,43,49,61,67

While there are a lot of things that I could improve on the system (160GB is just not enough for recording HD for example) I am pretty happy with it and use it as the only source of TV viewing in the house.

What kind of a setup do you have? Is your PC your primary source or is it more of a hobby? Do you have good results with OTA? If so what antenna placement has worked best for you?

Sorry I have not replied sooner. Off for the holidays and now just getting back to reading this forum.

I put a new PC together for my HTPC/MEC with the following:

Antec case NSK2400 (not a tower case, black with silver front). So the PC looks like a "stereo device".

MoBo MSI 945GM3-F with 2GB DDR2-667 memory, built in 5.1 sound. MoBo supports both Dual and Core 2 Dual CPU's.

CPU Intel 775 socket Dual 945, 3.4GHz

Hitachi 500GB HDS725050KLA360 SATAII 7200rpm 16MB

Creative DTS-610 for connecting PC audio to Home Theater Receiver for DTS 5.1 audio via optical cable.

Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse MX-5000 Bluetooth II good up to (60 ft)

Video Nvidia 6600GT with DVI and analog outputs

2 DVD burners Pioneer DVR-111D

USB-UIRT for IR control of PC (not using yet).

DVICO FusionHDTV5 RT Gold. Using TW cable QAM for TV reception.

Snapstream Beyond TV (with optional burner software) and Beyond Media software with FireFLY RF remote control

Connected to my Panny 50" plazma via DVI to HDMI cable.

Connected to 1GB lan/RR and able to download .AVI TV shows recorded in HD/5.1 via **********. File size is 350MB for HD and 700MB for HD with 5.1 sound for a 1 hour TV show with all commericals removed. Shows look GREAT!

This HTPC/MEC is only used in the family room for TV/DVD or surfing web. Other PC's for general use.

Most of the hardware was purchased at NewEGG.

I hope this answeres your questions on my configuration.

If you either don't have D* or E*, OR, you don't care about integrating OTA, there are a fair number of tv's out there now with dual RF antenna inputs. Typically one is marked "air" and one cable, but from what I've read, most of them will accept an ATSC signal in either or both, just that only one is QAM compatible for cable. So you could hook an antenna into each one aimed in different directions.

That's another possibility. But your original post suggested inputting both to the TV and having the TV make the decision about which input gives the better signal on a particular channel. I don't think TV manus are going to put that kind of logic into their OTA receiver and there was an easier way for me.

For me it was easier to just sum multiple OTA sources into one cable and have the "best" from both. But if the two OTA inputs work for you, great.

I have unencrypted local channels available to me on both my Cable/QAM as well as OTA ATSC. The broadcast towers in Parma are only 5-6 miles from my house.

Visually, I can't tell a difference. But I read somewhere once that cable companies tend to compress the "original" (ATSC) stream further so that the quality of QAM may not be as good as ATSC. My cable company in North Royalton is Wide Open West.

Is there any way I can tell with a stream analyzer or other such free software if there is any additional compression added to my QAM channels? Or do any WOW customers in Cleveland already know the answer? Is there an objective analysis I can perform on whether I should use ATSC or QAM if I want the best quality? From a signal strength perspective, I can get OTA or QAM equally well.

Thanks,
Robert

I have unencrypted local channels available to me on both my Cable/QAM as well as OTA ATSC. The broadcast towers in Parma are only 5-6 miles from my house.

Visually, I can't tell a difference. But I read somewhere once that cable companies tend to compress the "original" (ATSC) stream further so that the quality of QAM may not be as good as ATSC. My cable company in North Royalton is Wide Open West.

Is there any way I can tell with a stream analyzer or other such free software if there is any additional compression added to my QAM channels? Or do any WOW customers in Cleveland already know the answer? Is there an objective analysis I can perform on whether I should use ATSC or QAM if I want the best quality? From a signal strength perspective, I can get OTA or QAM equally well.

Thanks,
Robert

I analyzed WOW's HD QAM channels a couple weeks ago and I could not find a difference in bandwidth between OTA and WOW's QAM. I have the OnAir USB GT tuner and TSReader Standard. I did some charting of the bandwidths of the local channels OTA vs. WOW and could not see a difference. I've also never seen a visual difference flipping between my OTA tuner and cable box.

Keep in mind that WOIO (CBS) has WeatherNow, so they've already compromised their PQ at the source (approx 2Mbps fixed is allocated to weather). WKYC (NBC) has WeatherPlus which compromises their PQ at the source (variable, up to 4.5Mbps is allocated to weather).

I think we're pretty lucky with WOW as a provider - I've read posts from TWC users in other parts of the country about their bandwidth shaping and reduced HD PQ. I don't know if TWC is doing that in the Cleveland area.

To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.

That's good to know. Thanks guys.

Yah, I've been happy with WOW ever since they were Americast. Compared to the alternative (Adelphia), it was a no brainer. Their cablemodem service is great too.

I guess I'll ditch the antenna.

Robert

Hitachi Global Storage Technologies said on Thursday that it will come out with a 3.5-inch-diameter 1 terabyte drive for desktops in the first quarter, then follow up in the second quarter with 3.5-inch terabyte drives for digital video recorders, bundled with software called Audio-Visual Storage Manager for easier retrieval of data, and corporate storage systems.
The Deskstar 7K1000 will cost $399 when it comes out. That comes to about 40 cents a gigabyte.

A terabyte is a trillion bytes, or a million megabytes, or 1,000 gigabytes, as measured by the hard-drive industry. (There are actually two conventions for calculating megabytes, but this is how the drive industry counts it.) As a reference, the print collection in the Library of Congress comes to about 10 terabytes of information, according to the How Much Information study from U.C. Berkeley. The report also found that 400,000 terabytes of e-mail get produced per year. About 50,000 trees would be necessary to create enough paper to hold a terabyte of information, according to the report.

Who needs this sort of storage capacity? You will, eventually, said Doug Pickford, director of market and product strategy at Hitachi. Demand for data storage capacity at corporations continues to grow, and it shows no sign of abating. A single terabyte drive takes up less space than four 250GB drives, which lets IT managers conserve on computing room real estate. The drive can hold about 330,000 3MB photos or 250,000 MP3s, according to Hitachi's math.

Consumers, meanwhile, are gobbling up more drive capacity because of content like video. An hour of standard video takes up about 1GB, while an hour of high-definition video sucks up 4GB, Pickford said.

The hard drive turned 50 last year, and over the past five decades data capacity has increased at a fairly regular and rapid pace. The first drive, which came with the RAMAC computer, weighed about a ton and held 5MB of data.

Read about it earlier in the TiVo Forum. Man, that's some storage.

To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.

I think E* does too (but no Cleve HD locals yet)

To the best of my knowledge the only one who compresses HD local signals are D*. This debate about what's better ota v cable has been long going and there is no proof that at least around here any cable companies compress their HD signals.

While it is probably equipment differences, SA8300HD v HR20 rather than compression issues, the PQ on the HD channels are significantly crisper on D*.

I'll believe "19 Action News" in HD when I see it. :D

Why are locals doing it and not the network? Locals are, I presume, more willing to put on a news show that's only in HD in the studio...? Even WKYC does field video in 16:9 SD.

While it is probably equipment differences, SA8300HD v HR20 rather than compression issues, the PQ on the HD channels are significantly crisper on D*.

I'll take your word for it Terry, but I gotta tell you I read a hell of alot of complaints about D* locals. :)

I'll believe "19 Action News" in HD when I see it. :D


That's how I feel too. Don't hold your breath. Anyway, I'm not too sure I want an HD picture on some of there reporters. :)

Noticed last night that Armstrong in Medina has added MTV-HD and A&E-HD. They've also fixed the guide problem for NFL-HD and others.

Now if they would just add ESPN2-HD, we'd be all set.

I'll take your word for it Terry, but I gotta tell you I read a hell of alot of complaints about D* locals. :)

Yeah, I don't notice much of a difference (better or worse) with the locals. Yes the HD locals have been a big problem for D*, but that seems to be a region by region issue. I haven't heard complaints in the local Cincy forum and so far so good for me.

Now as far as national HD channels go, I believe the picture is better with my D* equipment. Although I never had the pleasure of owning a S3 with cable so it's hard for me to say if it is equipment or TWC's transmission.

I've seen the locals on D* in my area and they're pretty horrid - especially on a dissolve. Loads of MPEG artifacts.

Keep your eyes peeled on the WEWS 6pm and 11pm newscasts Sunday 1/7/07. There could be a sudden boost in resolution.
:cool:

Keep your eyes peeled on the WEWS 6pm and 11pm newscasts Sunday 1/7/07. There could be a sudden boost in resolution.
:cool:

As early as 6? :D

It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!

As early as 6? :D

It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!

That circle logo is what most ABC affiliates use. Now that I think about it channel 9 in Cincinnati, another Scripts broadcaster didn't use it either.

If I'm wrong on that one Terryfoster will be around shortly to correct me. :)

As early as 6? :D

It had been reported at a certain local media blog that it would start with the 11 PM show tonight...and they're apparently going back to the "circle 5" logo!

Yes, possibly 6pm. I'm sure it will depend on how their testing and/or rehearsals go.
I like the Circle-5 logo better than the rectanguar "letterhead" logo. I think it's friendlier and more distinctive.

**Edit**
Ok, looks like it's official now according to their website. (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/10689501/detail.html)

WEWS is up with "NewsChannel5 HD" graphics and such...but is still actually in SD. Wouldn't it be funny if they forgot to flip the switch!

:D

Anyone happen to have any screen shots of WEWS HD news? I mean they are on our side and all :)

Anyone happen to have any screen shots of WEWS HD news? I mean they are on our side and all :)

I did record the 6 PM show, but it wasn't in HD - it had all the new graphics and "HD" over everything, but it was still in SD. I suspect the HD won't debut until 11.

Sorry I have not replied sooner. Off for the holidays and now just getting back to reading this forum.

[snip . . .]

I hope this answeres your questions on my configuration.

That sounds like a really nice setup. I am just a poor college student trying to do things as cheaply as possible :( .

I am looking at adding in 5.1 surround sound though. My onboard sound supports 5.1 surround and I have been wondering how the best way to set it up is. Do I need some sort of a converter? Can I get away with a set of $50 5.1 computer speakers for a roughly 15 x 15 room?

while an hour of high-definition video sucks up 4GB, Pickford said.

I wish it were only that much. I usually run 6-7GB / hr. recording off an OTA signal. 140GB does not last long at that rate. I for one am ready for a 1TB drive.

WEWS is up and running in HD news.

They seem to have some glitches with SD video, tho! Nothing major, but something they'll probably fix at some point.

They must've been working really hard on this transition. The chief engineer looked really tired!

The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.

The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt. :D)

WEWS inaugural HD news @ 11pm screen caps:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3702/wewssportsstretchbt3.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewssportsstretchbt3.jpg) http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/474/wewssportsanchorgy2.th.jpg (http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewssportsanchorgy2.jpg) http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2161/wewssports43pillarbarcw1.th.jpg (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewssports43pillarbarcw1.jpg) http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4403/wewsnewshn6.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewsnewshn6.jpg) http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6366/wewsweatherhdel2.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewsweatherhdel2.jpg)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/826/wewssundaysportszg6.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewssundaysportszg6.jpg) http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6379/wewsanchorsyj2.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewsanchorsyj2.jpg) http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1286/wewstedhenrybf8.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wewstedhenrybf8.jpg)

Graphics still look SD. Ironically, Angie Lau's piece on the HD transition was in SD.

I'm kinda liking the stretchovision on SD material instead of HD pillarbars. They didn't do that in every case, though.

The weather radar in HD is a nice touch.

Overall, very nice job WEWS!

Edit: My compliments on having the Sunday sports show in HD. For some reason WKYC can't show the sports anchors in HD even though they appear to be a swing of the HD camera away.

Anybody get some Lee Jordan HD screen caps? She looked great, but I wasn't at the PC to grab any screen caps... :D

The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.

The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt. :D)

No, it wasn't me. I was sleeping at that time of the night, but no telling if the same thing would have happened to the S3. But reading this it would have been interesting to compare notes.

Anyway I'll check it out this afternoon on the 5 O'Clock news.

Was anyone else as irritated as I was with WOIO and their constant breakins in SD about flooding? It seemed like they would have one every 15 minutes and they would take about 4 minutes to run completely through as they ran the full warning twice.

Compare that to WKYC who did a nice smooth transition, brought the picture down to letterbox and ran the scroll quickly, just one time and back to the show in HD. Plus they ran the warning less.

I understand the need to keep people informed but WOIO was way over the top and really ruined their HD broadcast on Friday.

Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.
JJK

Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.
JJK

Some of the biggest resistance to HD programming are the actors, actresses, and news anchors who don't want people to realize that, yes, they really DO look 51 years old. :D

The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.

The glitch was appearing as almost "sound level" black bars shooting up from the lower graphics area. After the apparent "reboot", it went away...and even my SA8000HD caught up eventually. (That cackle is coming from Hookbill and his TiVo S3, no doubt. :D)

I just watched DVR playback (on an 8300) of the 11pm HD broadcast and I didn't see anything wrong. When did this reboot occur in the broadcast? I'll go back and look at it again.

Those anchors have to look good now because HD shows every wart, blemish, zit, etc. They have this new spray makeup I think they used on some older female anchors on another channel and it works because it goes on like flesh spray paint. It covers everything.
JJK

Yep, that spray-on makeup really exists. Earl Scheib lives on... :p

Graphics still look SD. Ironically, Angie Lau's piece on the HD transition was in SD.

I'm kinda liking the stretchovision on SD material instead of HD pillarbars. They didn't do that in every case, though.

The weather radar in HD is a nice touch.

Overall, very nice job WEWS!

Edit: My compliments on having the Sunday sports show in HD. For some reason WKYC can't show the sports anchors in HD even though they appear to be a swing of the HD camera away.

Anybody get some Lee Jordan HD screen caps? She looked great, but I wasn't at the PC to grab any screen caps... :D

Stretchovision looked awful. I didn't get a chance to see the SD 5.0, but I'd imagine they saw it stretched off the screen. I think that had to be an upconverter mistake, because sports was side flagged with the annoying 5 logos.

That's good to know. Thanks guys.

Yah, I've been happy with WOW ever since they were Americast. Compared to the alternative (Adelphia), it was a no brainer. Their cablemodem service is great too.

I guess I'll ditch the antenna.

Robert
If I were you I would not be so fast to ditch the antenna. There may come a time when:
1. the local station and WOW has an impasse where they have to pull the station (happened to COX with FOX 8 several years ago)
2. A new subchannel service is added to the OTA but not carrried by cable
3. A new station goes on line digitally (WBNS and WVPX). You'll get the digital signal OTA immediately while there may take the cableco some time to add the new service.

An aside: there are times when you cang receive stations OTA that are not carried on cable (such as WKBN-DT from Youngstown). I get WKBN-DT 24/7 here in Parma. Most of North Royalton is on high ground as well. It's nice to be able to get an alternitive CBS and FOX station (SD FOX on a subchannel) especially during football season ;)

I just watched DVR playback (on an 8300) of the 11pm HD broadcast and I didn't see anything wrong. When did this reboot occur in the broadcast? I'll go back and look at it again.

A quick run through the show and I can't find the "lockup" point at least in FF'ing. It must have only been "live".

The video glitches were apparently with the HD graphics overlay. At some point, they rebooted it, live, which caused my SA8000HD DVR to lock up! A flip over to the ATSC tuner in my HD set and it was fine.

WEWS-DT is the only channel I've seen where part of the
screen will freeze... happened twice on Monday's 11pm news...
first time at the bottom, second time in the middle...
then the whole screen freezes and the audio disappears for
30 seconds or so... guessing they're rebooting something...

their switches from satellite HD to upconverted SD to the
news switcher HD also give me about a half screen of green
with a pop in the audio...

Ed...

WEWS-DT is the only channel I've seen where part of the
screen will freeze... happened twice on Monday's 11pm news...
first time at the bottom, second time in the middle...
then the whole screen freezes and the audio disappears for
30 seconds or so... guessing they're rebooting something...

their switches from satellite HD to upconverted SD to the
news switcher HD also give me about a half screen of green
with a pop in the audio...

Ed...

The 5 pm news yesterday was a mess. At around 5:25 they went to commercial and the screen locked up. You could hear the commercials but just a blurry picture frozen. Then it went to a gray screen, no sound. I put on FOX 8 for 5 minutes and went back to WEWS. It was then mostly a green screen with a distored blue on the corner, vocals clear. The weather started and they mentioned their HD radar and how great it was, which it is, but you couldn't see it. I can't believe they didn't know they were having problems. I switched back to FOX 8 and about 5:50 switched again to WEWS. Everything from that point was fine.

They definitely need to tweek this broadcast. When it works it's good but when it doesn't, man it's bad.

Same problems OTA with WEWS. Also noticed that they are stretch-zooming a lot of the SD stuff making people look fat. I no likeey that.

JJK

Looks like WEWS could use a good, detailed lesson in OAR. My oh my, I DVR'd both the HD and SD newscasts and it's really embarrassing. Stretch-O-Vision is so bad that even full screen graphics (which should have HD safe title markers when created) are way off the screen in the SD world.

Honestly, why go HD if you're going to muck everything up and have the show look worse!

When they did get aspect ratio correct with upconverted SD material and pillared the 4:3 image with blue logos, you could clearly see the artwork encroaching on the screen edges in the SD world.

Just sloppy all around. Although it's a move in the right direction, they clearly could have used a lot more practice. We have to applaud them for making the move to HD, but what's the sense if only studio cameras and a handful of graphic elements are true OAR HD. I know it's a ratings race to say "We're HD, look at us," but my oh my it's awful.

I wish Cleveland stations would take a cue from someone like ESPN's Sportscenter and commit to HD. They're HD from top to bottom, where if there's a game being broadcast in HD, or even SD 16:9, they can record it, edit and playback all in HD.

True HD acquisition of content is probably the next race in Cleveland news. I'm not picking on WEWS alone, even WKYC/STO couldn't get their own HD sports highlights in HD on their newscasts.

Same problems OTA with WEWS. Also noticed that they are stretch-zooming a lot of the SD stuff making people look fat. I no likeey that.

JJKWEWS is doing "stretch-o-vision" differently on live remote shots. Last night they showed the OSU students at the "party" in the arena. When the camera panned the audience you could see the distortions along the sides, however when the camera stood still anything in the center looked normal (i.e. not fat).

I tried to post here yesterday about the freeze-ups I experienced on my 921 when the live WEWS newscast was on, however this site had a few glitches of it's own (server busy error). The first lock-up happened Sunday during the story about the fatal fire in Westlake. Last night I got horizontal stripe of colored hash across the middle of the picture (blotting Stephanie Shafer's face out :( ).

They need to do some serious tweaking ASAP! (unless they were sold a bad processor). Most of the glitches happen whenever an overlay graphic is shown.

Anybody else getting a jumpy picture on FSN-HD during the Blue Jacket's game tonight? Seems like the picture is stopping and starting every couple of seconds. Commercials are fine, wouldn't you know?

Watching on Armstrong on Medina, by the way.

Glad to see I'm not the only one having problems with WEWS' graphic glitches. It happened again during the noon newscast today. The glitches are even locking up my Fusion5USB HDTV tuner!

They are as described above.

Just flipped on FSN Ohio HD's BlueJackets game a couple of minutes ago via TWC "HD Bonus" channel, and haven't seen any jumping in that short amount of time. The picture looks sharper than the INHD broadcast of the NHL game on "Versus"...

Glad to see I'm not the only one having problems with WEWS' graphic glitches. It happened again during the noon newscast today. The glitches are even locking up my Fusion5USB HDTV tuner!

They are as described above.



Tonight after the News at 5 I had it on the ABC evening news and there was a lock up. Sound continued after a bit but picture stayed frozen. I changed channels and it was fine.

Has anyone else noticed that WFMJ-21 analog has a much weaker signal than usual tonight?

Just my opinion but it seems to me and I guess it should be expected FOX 8 is the leader in quality of viewing (not necessarily news) of the three HD local news. Followed by WKYC and last WEWS.

I don't record or really even watch the local news, usually it's on as "background" while I'm doing other things but I do glance over from time to time. I figure WJW is best for two reasons, experience and also it's nice to have a major networks money behind you. But I still prefer WEWS in the afternoon because I find WJW simply annoying. But when you have frozen pictures and broadcast that sends me back to WJW.

I really wish WKYC would move Dr. Phil to some other time of the day so their news would compete with the other two local news.

Just my opinion but it seems to me and I guess it should be expected FOX 8 is the leader in quality of viewing (not necessarily news) of the three HD local news. Followed by WKYC and last WEWS.

I don't record or really even watch the local news, usually it's on as "background" while I'm doing other things but I do glance over from time to time. I figure WJW is best for two reasons, experience and also it's nice to have a major networks money behind you. But I still prefer WEWS in the afternoon because I find WJW simply annoying. But when you have frozen pictures and broadcast that sends me back to WJW.

I really wish WKYC would move Dr. Phil to some other time of the day so their news would compete with the other two local news.


I agree...Fox 8's kinda taken it easy though. They have their formula down and don't deviate from it. SD 16:9 live shots, 4:3 taped "pillared" video and all studio stuff HD 16:9. It's not above and beyond, but at the very least it's clean. What's gets me is that their show open is still 4:3 with defocussed edges. You'd think they'd have made a new show open. Probably spent too much time/resources/money on the first to care about making a new one.

My OTA Sony 46" 1080P shows channel 3 live news as razor sharp, channel 8 a very, very, very, close second and channel 5 a distant 3rd. Channel 5 also is a bit on the soft gausian blur side of things. Channel 19 live football is the same as or better than channel 8 and sunday night football is the sharpest when they decide to get things in focus. Channel 5 was showing the color side bars on the SD tonight for some stuff.
JJK

My OTA Sony 46" 1080P shows channel 3 live news as razor sharp, channel 8 a very, very, very, close second and channel 5 a distant 3rd. Channel 5 also is a bit on the soft gausian blur side of things

I'd have to agree almost exactly with your rankings, based on my 32" 720P LCD set.

For whatever reason, 5's weather folks look softer than the news anchors. Susanne and Mark look almost out of focus at times...maybe they need to "save the sharpness" for the HD radar? ;)

Heh.

Hey what is the best indoor HD antenna? I currently live in Portage County near Kent and am using a regular amplified rabbit ears. No channels 3, 8, 19, 25. For some reason I have no trouble getting channel 5. And I have absolutely NO trouble receiving the Shop at Home network...the tower is right down the road! Figures, eh? I also have a directional antenna on my roof I am thinking of "resurrecting" but I don't know which way to point it for optimal performance. I'd also like to try to get the Y-town stations. I can somewhat get WKBN/WBCB/WYFX without much trouble. If someone could give me some insight it would be appreciated. This is a really cool forum, ill probably stick around. I have cable but don't want to get another box. Thanks!

First and best place to start is www.antennaweb.org and put in your address. It will give you the locations of the towers around you, distance and degree. Good Luck.

Hey what is the best indoor HD antenna? I currently live in Portage County near Kent and am using a regular amplified rabbit ears. No channels 3, 8, 19, 25. For some reason I have no trouble getting channel 5. And I have absolutely NO trouble receiving the Shop at Home network...the tower is right down the road! Figures, eh? I also have a directional antenna on my roof I am thinking of "resurrecting" but I don't know which way to point it for optimal performance. I'd also like to try to get the Y-town stations. I can somewhat get WKBN/WBCB/WYFX without much trouble. If someone could give me some insight it would be appreciated. This is a really cool forum, ill probably stick around. I have cable but don't want to get another box. Thanks!

With an outdoor antenna in Kent you'll probably get WYTV in Youngstown in addition to the others. It might be borderline.

And you should get everything in Cleveland/Akron depending on the type and size antenna. Except WVIZ-digital. You have to be about 10 feet from their transmitter in Parma to pick it up.

LOL, thats what I figured. Guess Ill have to get on the roof and start fiddling...
I tried buying all of those fancy antennas and ended up returning because they are no different than rabbit ears, at least for me. And about 60 bucks more...

LOL, thats what I figured. Guess Ill have to get on the roof and start fiddling...
I tried buying all of those fancy antennas and ended up returning because they are no different than rabbit ears, at least for me. And about 60 bucks more...
To me, this statement tells me that you do not have a direct path to any of the stations (except maybe 19) and are picking everything up via a multipath (or a very strong single) reflection. Probably the only thing that would help from your location is more height.

For whatever reason, 5's weather folks look softer than the news anchors. Susanne and Mark look almost out of focus at times...maybe they need to "save the sharpness" for the HD radar? ;)

Heh.

I've noticed that also. It looks like a simple focusing error. Either the camera operator on the floor has a monitor that's too small to determine focus or they're deliberately defocusing that shot to keep their Ultimatte from keying on fabric patterns in the talent's clothes.

To me, this statement tells me that you do not have a direct path to any of the stations (except maybe 19) and are picking everything up via a multipath (or a very strong single) reflection. Probably the only thing that would help from your location is more height.
I agree with k2rj. I live on the east side of Kent and just installed a Winegard SensarIII(amplified) up on the roof. My only problem is I have very tall trees along the line of sight to the Parma antenna farm. I am able to get a good digital signal from channel 3, 5(fair), 17, 21, 27, 49, 61, 67. I cannot get the digital 8 or 19 for some reason. I can get the analogs decent however. I plan on installing an amplifier/ distributor, but I don't know if it will help me. I'm sure the spring when the leaves come out my reception will get worse too. Unfortunately the trees I need to get over are a good 20' taller than my 2 story house so it would take an awfully long mast to get over those (and look silly on my house too). According to antennaweb, I'm only 23 miles from those Cleveland stations. As long as you have a good line of sight (no trees or tall buildings) in the direction antennaweb says you should point, you should do OK. Make sure your roof top has a powered pre-amp with it. Those are best matched for the distance you need to pick up. If not you can get a Channel Master pre-amp at Lowe's.

I agree with k2rj. I live on the east side of Kent and just installed a Winegard SensarIII(amplified) up on the roof. My only problem is I have very tall trees along the line of sight to the Parma antenna farm. I am able to get a good digital signal from channel 3, 5(fair), 17, 21, 27, 49, 61, 67. I cannot get the digital 8 or 19 for some reason. I can get the analogs decent however. I plan on installing an amplifier/ distributor, but I don't know if it will help me. I'm sure the spring when the leaves come out my reception will get worse too. Unfortunately the trees I need to get over are a good 20' taller than my 2 story house so it would take an awfully long mast to get over those (and look silly on my house too). According to antennaweb, I'm only 23 miles from those Cleveland stations. As long as you have a good line of sight (no trees or tall buildings) in the direction antennaweb says you should point, you should do OK. Make sure your roof top has a powered pre-amp with it. Those are best matched for the distance you need to pick up. If not you can get a Channel Master pre-amp at Lowe's.
You could get a 50 foot high tower. ;)

Is anyone having a problem with the Fox 8 signal via ota. I have been having problems since Monday on my HR10-250. It was fine yesterday and I had a strong steady 90 on the signal meter. Today I'm barely getting a signal. I thought maybe they were doing some work at the station. I live in Cuyahoga Falls.

Thanks, Dan

You could get a 50 foot high tower. ;)
I know! OR A CHAINSAW! Actually the chainsaw is sounding better and better.

I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction. :)

Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...

I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction. :)

Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...

WOIO's digital signal is notably weaker than the rest, even by VHF standards (since WOIO digital is actually RF channel 10) because they have to make sure they don't interfere with CPFL analog Channel 10 in London, Ontario. You won't have much luck with even an outdoor antenna once you get south of North Canton or east of Ravenna.

Yesterday during the News @ 5 on WEWS I didn't see any major problems, other then the annoying stretch o vision. However this morning when I got up my TV happened to be on WEWS and they had picture, no sound.

Seems like they still got some things to work out. I kind of wonder if they rushed this a bit, just too many errors, frozen pictures, sound drop outs.

WOIO's digital signal is notably weaker than the rest, even by VHF standards (since WOIO digital is actually RF channel 10) because they have to make sure they don't interfere with CPFL analog Channel 10 in London, Ontario. You won't have much luck with even an outdoor antenna once you get south of North Canton or east of Ravenna.
And I can't even pick up channel 8 digital at all either. Very strange. Channel 3's digital stations come in the best for me. Since these transmitters are all in the same "immediate" area does this suggest my antenna is not doing very well at some frequencies or is Fox8 on the weaker side of signal strength too?

And I can't even pick up channel 8 digital at all either. Very strange. Channel 3's digital stations come in the best for me. Since these transmitters are all in the same "immediate" area does this suggest my antenna is not doing very well at some frequencies or is Fox8 on the weaker side of signal strength too?

I really don't know that much about OTA but I do read a great deal and I think that if you live all the way out in Kent you shouldn't be surprised that you have trouble pulling in some signals. Honestly I'm amazed that you can get what you can get.

With all the obstacles out there, wireless phones, landscapes, sunspots etc. I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.

In my opinion OTA people have to use the "overwhelmation technique" to get something reliable going. Huge antenna, great height, great location, great equipment, multipath elimination circuitry, quick lock on circuitry, and low loss lead-in and components. The good stuff is available but your monetary dedication will be tested. The first step is to get someone out to your domicile to see where the best reception is with one of those magic grid dip meters. A cherry picker would be a nice touch.

JJK

In my opinion OTA people have to use the "overwhelmation technique" to get something reliable going. Huge antenna, great height, great location, great equipment, multipath elimination circuitry, quick lock on circuitry, and low loss lead-in and components. The good stuff is available but your monetary dedication will be tested. The first step is to get someone out to your domicile to see where the best reception is with one of those magic grid dip meters. A cherry picker would be a nice touch.

JJK


um....wow. :)

Seems like quite a hassle to me. I'm overwhelmed just reading what you wrote. :)

I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.
I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please! :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by hookbill
I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.

I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV.

I use OTA because I don't want to spend a lot of money on cable. I went to much more effort to build my HTPC and get the software running correctly than I did to buy an antenna and put it on my roof. I would rather do that than have to pay TWC a monthy fee for a bunch of channels that I will never watch. Maybe I would feel differently if I had more disposable income, but for now the effort of putting up an antenna was a small amount of trouble compared to the money I am saving compared to cable.

I have a large antenna, more cable than I need, no preamp and good enough reception to have a perfect picture on all of the Cleveland stations even though my antenna is pointed straight at a bunch of trees. I can get the Youngstown stations too if I turn my antenna but it is either or for me :(.

I really don't know that much about OTA but I do read a great deal and I think that if you live all the way out in Kent you shouldn't be surprised that you have trouble pulling in some signals. Honestly I'm amazed that you can get what you can get.

With all the obstacles out there, wireless phones, landscapes, sunspots etc. I am truly amazed at what efforts you OTA people go through to pull in a signal. I'm not knocking it but it sure seems like a great deal of trouble. But more power to you.

Benefits of OTA-

-Free
-If you can pick them up, you can often get out-of-market stations (Youngstown for us, generally, or Toledo if you're in Lorain, Huron, or Erie Counties) that cable doesn't carry
-Generally slightly better picture and audio quality (or significantly better audio in some cases IIRC some cable providers don't pass 5.1 audio)

My uncle lives in eastern Stark County and can get everything except WOIO from Cleveland and the big three in Y-town no problem. It depends more on terrain and trees than distance from towers (until you get about 70 miles out then you're usually S.O.L. no matter what!)

I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please! :D

I like being able to pick up Youngstown stations too and none of the Summit County cables systems carry any of them, although they did until the mid 80s or so. Just for more variety, I realize network stuff will be identical, but it's nice having an alternative. As a side note I like the syndicated reruns on the Youngstown affiliates (and the subchannels) better than what the Cleveland stations run. The Y-town affiliates have a better selection it seems.

I think its more of a principles thing. I have never subscribed to cable and I don't really want to. I see it as a big waste of money considering my family does not watch that much TV. If I want HD stations through the cable, I'm going to have to shell out almost $50 a month! I've currently got $80 invested in my OTA components. Why do I need HD? Because its available I guess. One comparison between an old analog transmission and a digital HD transmission and no one would want the old standard. Perhaps when the analog phase out happens, digital and HD will go hand in hand and the basic "lifeline" service available for $11 a month will be all HD signals. Still, the investment with OTA equipment will payback and save money, just not as fast. The possibility though is the de-emphasis of broadcasting OTA. Its alot harder to watch a poor digital signal than an analog one, so more people will probably turn to cable after the changeover. Will the broadcasters use technology to improve OTA reception? Who knows. I am really surprised I get what I get OTA too, but I still have to fall back to analog stations occasionally. Hookbill, your last words summed it up - more power to us! Please! :D

Your answer makes a great deal of sense to me. If I didn't watch alot of television I would agree with you. Why waste your money?

In my case I do watch alot of television and not just OTA shows but shows that are available on FX, HBO, SCI FI, USA. You get where I'm going. Now I know many people say "rent the DVD" but these cable/sat channels are great when the networks arn't.

And as I pointed out I live in a heavily wooded area with some rolling hills and tough terrain. I can't get satellite so while expensive, cable is the way to go for me. And I don't knock you guys at all for what you spend. Heck, my S3 cost me close to a thousand bucks with exteneded warranty and three year service.

My wife and I use it though, and I feel it's the best way to go for me.

I like being able to pick up Youngstown stations too and none of the Summit County cables systems carry any of them, although they did until the mid 80s or so. Just for more variety, I realize network stuff will be identical, but it's nice having an alternative. As a side note I like the syndicated reruns on the Youngstown affiliates (and the subchannels) better than what the Cleveland stations run. The Y-town affiliates have a better selection it seems.

To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.

To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.

Good point. It is a hobby. Although it's also nice to have a better selection for football games. :D

dleisling,

I live in North Ridgeville, and I get all Cleveland fine through MANY tall trees (except WVIZ).

I am a ham radio operator, and am retired from a career in broadcasting.

Here are my suggestions for antenna installation:
1. If there are hills between you and the station, you may need to have a fairly high antenna. This is rarely the case in these parts.
2. It will probably be advantageous to get a fairly high gain antenna at your location.
3. VERY IMPORTANT - use top notch cable like a premium RG6.
4. If you use an amplifier, it MUST be located at the antenna BEFORE cable losses.
5. You will probably need a rotor for precision aiming (with Youngstown as a bonus). The higher gain the antenna, the more precisely it must be aimed.

Good luck! Oh, amplified rabbit ears are usually worse than no amplification. There is negligable cable loss - not much cable. Signal quality is determined by the FIRST amplifier in the receiving chain, and the amplifiers in low-cost rabbit ears are likely to be inferior to the first amplifier inside your receiver. The real advantage to an amplifier AT the antenna, is that the signal is stronger there than after going through a length of cable. Just to emphasize - cable quality is MOST important at the higher UHF frequencies.

Dave

dleisling,
Signal quality is determined by the FIRST amplifier in the receiving chain, and the amplifiers in low-cost rabbit ears are likely to be inferior to the first amplifier inside your receiver. The real advantage to an amplifier AT the antenna, is that the signal is stronger there than after going through a length of cable. Just to emphasize - cable quality is MOST important at the higher UHF frequencies.

Dave, would a secondary amplifier (after the pre-amp) help or is that just to make up for even longer cable runs, say due to splitters? I am considering getting an amplified splitter (don't necessarily need the splitter right now, but if the amp would help...).

I dont think I need a 50' tower, or a forest destruction. :)

Ill just play around with the antenna that I have and well see. Weird how I get 5 fine with rabbit ears, PTXer gets it fair. We are not far from each other. U'd think we should be able to get 19 at least concidering the others at least come in...


I'll have to agree with a few of the others, the Amplified Rabbit ears are pretty much the same, I cannot find a pair to pull in 3 or 5 from north Central Lake County, but they seem to do a fairly decent job on the UHF out of Cleveland from the farm (with the exception of 25).

I finally upgraded to a wind twisted Attic Antenna, I salvaged for my upstairs sets :) seems to work great, all watchable (analog)

Add an amp you say??

To each his own. I on the other hand like being able to get the cable only stations for greater variety. Plus I get the sense from you that it's kind of like a hobby, sort of "let's see what I can pull in today." Hey, that makes total sense to me. Enjoy.

Unfortunately in these times in our down economy, I can't see TV becoming a Utility, & would be compelled to watch 24/7 if I was paying $50/mo for Television! Seems like the "Magic" of local Television independents is all gone. If it ever comes down to no OTA signal, which is what Time Warner wants & cable, I guess there is always DVD's to rent. I'm still a bit nervous when ODOT installs their Noise barriers how it may affect my signal.

My brother who Lives in the Miami/Dade, Ft Lauderdale area, was able to pull in close to 45 plus channels with rabbit ears, yet just said it "all comes in on the cable anyway", only $60 a month... though to me that's still a lot of money.

TV DX'ing is sort of an old Hobby too, amongst being a former Ham Op. :)

Benefits of OTA-

-Free
-If you can pick them up, you can often get out-of-market stations (Youngstown for us, generally, or Toledo if you're in Lorain, Huron, or Erie Counties) that cable doesn't carry
-Generally slightly better picture and audio quality (or significantly better audio in some cases IIRC some cable providers don't pass 5.1 audio)

My uncle lives in eastern Stark County and can get everything except WOIO from Cleveland and the big three in Y-town no problem. It depends more on terrain and trees than distance from towers (until you get about 70 miles out then you're usually S.O.L. no matter what!)


The Farm seems to favor the beaming to the south it seems, but looking at Toledo's patterns it seems like 25% of their signal ends out in the lake anyway, I'm still 26-28 miles out but still have great diffulities.

True, a lot better picture with an OTA Signal! :)

Assuming I have a 1366x768 Widescreen HD, What would be the best setting for a HDMI upconvertable DVD Player.... 1280x720P or 1920x1080i?

That's not true. Whatever comes out of the air through the cable goes out the same. We get Dolby 5.1 not only on OtA but on stations like ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, DISCOVERY, IHND, HDNet and HDnet movies Also when the Tribe is in HD at home we get Dolby 5.1. Well, actually it's 5.0 but they say it's 5.1.

And as far as picture quality I can't say because I don't have OTA but it's seem to have been the feeling around here that unless your a real vidophile you really can't see any difference between OTA and cable.

Getting back to the Tribe. All home games, in HD. Now try that OTA. :) You can only do it like 20 games a year.

That's not true. Whatever comes out of the air through the cable goes out the same. We get Dolby 5.1 not only on OtA but on stations like ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, DISCOVERY, IHND, HDNet and HDnet movies Also when the Tribe is in HD at home we get Dolby 5.1. Well, actually it's 5.0 but they say it's 5.1.

And as far as picture quality I can't say because I don't have OTA but it's seem to have been the feeling around here that unless your a real vidophile you really can't see any difference between OTA and cable.

In theory with Digital that's true, should be no change in picture quality, from OTA or Cable, analog is another story though. The cable I have seen in my area at least looked grainy or fuzzy campared to a good OTA setup, even the kids that delivered my fathers TV years ago commented what a great picture.

First and best place to start is www.antennaweb.org and put in your address. It will give you the locations of the towers around you, distance and degree. Good Luck.

Been using this site for reference, though in spotty areas the rules seem to go out the door, finding out just a few streets away from one site changes everything you may or may not need for your setup.

I'll have to agree with a few of the others, the Amplified Rabbit ears are pretty much the same, I cannot find a pair to pull in 3 or 5 from north Central Lake County, but they seem to do a fairly decent job on the UHF out of Cleveland from the farm (with the exception of 25).There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.

Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.

Thats exactly what I have been doing. Unfortunately, my antenna has to be physically adjusted on the roof because the motor that rotates it has failed. :(

Im in for a fun ride if I want to get everything. But I do have more important things to do...

There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.

Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.

dleising, think how nice it would be to get it working and right now its nice outside so the roof should be pretty safe...

Im in for a fun ride if I want to get everything. But I do have more important things to do...

Agreed. the ride is quite fun...but honestly...what in the world do you have that is better to do?

dleising, think how nice it would be to get it working and right now its nice outside so the roof should be pretty safe...

dtm1018...you are a person with great people skills that most people dont even stop to recognize.....it was very nice of you to help out another forum-ite when he/she is in need of assistance. im sure that when dleising reads this, he will appreciate your advice greatly.....


**NOTE** this post may seem like a sarcastic comment, but it in no way was meant to be... i just like to point out model citizens when i see them.

Just talked with a guy on another board who lives all the way down in Tuscarawas County near Sugarcreek and he has a huge antenna setup with a rotator, on a VERY tall tower (probably 85 feet!) and he *claims* can get the following digitals pretty much 24/7 OTA:

WKYC Cleveland
WKBN Youngstown
WFMJ Youngstown (that surprised me)
WEWS Cleveland
WEAO Akron
WJW Cleveland
WTOV Steubenville
WOUC Cambridge
WUAB Cleveland
WOAC Canton (but who cares...)
WDLI Canton

Assuming I have a 1366x768 Widescreen HD, What would be the best setting for a HDMI upconvertable DVD Player.... 1280x720P or 1920x1080i?

1280X720 since that's the native resolution of the TV. The extra 86 X 48 is essentially "under the edges" of the screen.

WOAC's tower is right down the road from me. I just realized it the other day passing the mailbox and it said "WOAC-TV". Boy it feels good to get such good Shop at Home reception. :)

WOAC's tower is right down the road from me. I just realized it the other day passing the mailbox and it said "WOAC-TV". Boy it feels good to get such good Shop at Home reception. :)

i bet that feels really good...

PTXer,

Generally speaking - a poor amplifier is WORSE than none.

Heres what I would do:

1. Get good antenna and cable - maybe rotor. Try it!

2. Get good amplifier at antenna - probably with better UHF gain than VHF

This is what I have, and it is spit 4 ways. I do NOT have an additional amp. Put more $ into the amp at the antenna. One thing to watch, these remote amps have a power supply that plugs in, and feeds power back through the cable to the amp. You must EITHER split the signal AFTER the power unit, OR make sure to get a splitter that passes DC, or the power won't get up to the amp

Add a powered splitter if necessary. There are many cheapo amps out there that actually do more HARM than good.

Dave

Dave,
Thanks for the advice. I was going for the unobtrusive look for the antenna. I have a Weingard GS2200 amplified antenna up on the roof. It is powered and I am using RG6 cable. The antenna is rated for the distance I am from the antenna farm, however, I have some very high trees just 30ft from the house. This is the main problem I am dealing with. I just am not sure a powered splitter will help my signal.

Dave,
Thanks for the advice. I was going for the unobtrusive look for the antenna. I have a Weingard GS2200 amplified antenna up on the roof. It is powered and I am using RG6 cable. The antenna is rated for the distance I am from the antenna farm, however, I have some very high trees just 30ft from the house. This is the main problem I am dealing with. I just am not sure a powered splitter will help my signal.

I have some tall trees roughly the same distance from my house, and I get all the Parma antenna farm stations except for WKYC (and sometimes WOIO).

I am, though, a little closer to there than you are...you're much farther east of here. I'm not far from the Merriman Valley, just up the hill from one of our other posters (akron05, I believe). The folks at antennaweb say I'm roughly 18-19 miles from the Parma farm, a bit west of due north in direction. Not quite north-northwest.

I think height and proximity is in my favor here, and maybe the tall trees have enough open space between them here...

1280X720 since that's the native resolution of the TV. The extra 86 X 48 is essentially "under the edges" of the screen.
TY, where 2 TV places told me this was the way to set it (progressive) the Manufacture (LG) suggested I go with the higher resolution interlaced, anyhow, going to set this at progressive, both setting still do yield a great picture! :)

There is a difference between antennas. However, I think the difference is a per house basis. You almost have to go out, buy 5 or 6 antennas. See which one has the best results and return the rest.

Going OTA is trial and error. I just wish I could get CBS more consistently. For a while it was coming in well, but now it's breaking up all the time.
I'm currently doing that untill I find a way to run cable up to my front bedroom I use as an office.. I'll now be using the ears in there.

Right now I'm using the Philips MANT310, the third antenna I'm testing. 20dB gain on VHF, 32dB gain on the UHF with a single gain control. 3 & 5 are still a problem child, I'll likely try others, though if worse comes to worse on this one the bright blue LED doubles as a nightlight! :)

PTXer,

Try NOT using ther splitter to see if that helps.

We all know trees are a no-no for satellite, but UHF can get through pretty well, and it hardly hurts VHF. My antenna is only up about 20 feet, and I'm shooting right through maybe a mile of TALL trees. There is no way I could get over them. Besides, with no leaves, they shouldn't hurt much now.

Dave

Try NOT using ther splitter to see if that helps.

We all know trees are a no-no for satellite, but UHF can get through pretty well, and it hardly hurts VHF. My antenna is only up about 20 feet, and I'm shooting right through maybe a mile of TALL trees. There is no way I could get over them. Besides, with no leaves, they shouldn't hurt much now.
I am not currently using a splitter. What I was wondering was if an amplifier/splitter would help me. I get good signal from 3, 5, 49, but I can't get a lock on 8 or 19. I do get some Youngstown stations though. My antenna only has a 2-3 ft mast (on 2 story house). I am thinking about going to a taller one.

In my experience adding the electronic splitter will make things worse as the tuner in you tv is far more sensitive than the electronic splitter and you will wonder why half the channels are missing. A preamp located at the antenna might help but you just have to try it to see. A lot of "hit and miss" here.
JJK

I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?

I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?
i have the same.

i have the same.
On DiSH everything is fine with HDNet/movies

I am not currently using a splitter. What I was wondering was if an amplifier/splitter would help me. I get good signal from 3, 5, 49, but I can't get a lock on 8 or 19. I do get some Youngstown stations though. My antenna only has a 2-3 ft mast (on 2 story house). I am thinking about going to a taller one.

Most of my OTA signals go way down or disappear if I turn the amplifier off. The "FM TRAP" on the amp helped too. It wasn't too sensitive to my splitting.

I've got a blank screen on HDnet and HDnetMovies. Can someone check and let me know what they have?

It's being looked at. Stand by...

Most of my OTA signals go way down or disappear if I turn the amplifier off. The "FM TRAP" on the amp helped too. It wasn't too sensitive to my splitting.
Do you have a pre-amp on you antenna too? I have a pre-amp, but no splitter/amp. I don't want to buy the splitter/amp if it won't improve my signal (although I may eventually need just a splitter).

It's being looked at. Stand by...

**EDIT** It's been fixed.

Thanks for checking guys. Glad to know it was a TW thing and not just my S3. :)

Here's a television history question:

Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?

I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.

Do you have a pre-amp on you antenna too? I have a pre-amp, but no splitter/amp. I don't want to buy the splitter/amp if it won't improve my signal (although I may eventually need just a splitter).

Not sure what you mean by pre-amp. I have a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna which are 'summed' together by using a splitter backwards. This goes immediately into a powered amp, I think about 20dB or so with an FM Trap. Then it goes 100' to the TV.

I have tried many things at the end of the 100' (another amplifier, etc) but there was no improvement. By that time I think the only thing an amp would do is amplify noise.

Not sure what you mean by pre-amp. I have a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna which are 'summed' together by using a splitter backwards. This goes immediately into a powered amp, I think about 20dB or so with an FM Trap. Then it goes 100' to the TV.
A pre-amp resides right on the antenna typically replacing the transformer (to 75ohm cable) on most antennae. The fact that it is right at the source enables it to better amplify the signal instead of the noise from the connections and cable. There is then a power supply just inside the house that feeds power back up the cable to the pre-amp. This can be a detriment though for stations broadcasting less than 10 miles away. My GS2200 has one built in, but you can buy separate ones made by both Winegard and Channel Master. You have to make sure you have the power supply though. Again this power supply goes backward to the antenna, while most other amplifiers boost the signal as it heads toward the TV. I have seen typical setups that include both the pre-amp and an amplifier but just not sure if they (amplifiers) are worth it. Maybe for extremely long cable runs inside the house.

Here's a television history question:

Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?

I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.
I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.

Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.

While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.

I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.

Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.

While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.

I know a guy that gets at least WEWS and WJW digital in Tusc county, but he has three times the antenna setup the average Joe does, or did back in the 50s or 60s - he has an 80 foot tower and a HUGE antenna.

I would not say Dover/New Philly got "nothing" OTA, just not the "correct" market.

Back in the mid 70's I was just outside of New Philladelphia (Leesville Lake) with a portable TV. I Got 3 stations WTAE-4, WTRF-7, and WSTV-9 iirc. I thought it was novel that the 3 networks came from 3 different states.

While Dover/New Philly are in the "Cleveland" DMA, OTA wise they are really in the Steubenville/Wheeling area.

How did the area end up in Cleveland's DMA? Was it because of cable TV and the fact that one could get ALL networks rather than just the two from Wheeling/Steubenville and MAYBE P'Burgh?

Why isn't "Scrubs" filmed in HD? It's usually stretched 4:3, then last week the info reported "HDTV" for the first time(that I've seen it) but it showed in 4:3 with bars on Lt & rt. Then this week it was 4:3 again but not listed as HDTV.

The only Scrubs episode that was presented in HD was last season's finale. Scrubs is not produced in HD and since this is the last season I wouldn't expect that to change.

EDIT: Future of the show is still unknown.

oh good, ... was hoping I wasn't the only one watching... :) thx

I know a guy that gets at least WEWS and WJW digital in Tusc county, but he has three times the antenna setup the average Joe does, or did back in the 50s or 60s - he has an 80 foot tower and a HUGE antenna.

Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.

Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.

I've noticed with my (analog) handheld TV, I get watchable reception on WJW going down 77 until about the south end of Canton, and then it rapidly fades to unwatchable black-and-white snow with only a shadow of a picture between there and Bolivar on the Stark/Tusc county line, which is only about 10 miles. I bet that's when you go out of the line-of-sight of the tower.

Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.

They can get WOUC 44 in Cambridge rather easily too. I'd bet a large enough antenna setup could do OK for some Cleveland stations and perhaps Columbus on a good day, but that's pushing it.

Regarding my handheld, what's funny is that here in Akron with the whip antenna, I get all Cleveland and Akron locals clear as a bell and Youngstown pretty much not at all, but if I play with the antenna I can get WFMJ watchable. Drive 10 minutes to Hartville and Channel 3 worsens a bit, the others stay the same, but WMFJ, WKBN, AND WYTV all come in quite nicely.

Here's a television history question:

Why did Ohio never jump on the translator/repeater bandwagon? The only stations in this state who have repeaters are TBN affiliates. If you're in Mansfield, or New Philadelphia you pretty much have no decent OTA options unless you're one of the 10% of the people lucky enough to live on a hill AND have an 80 foot high tower. Did people just not watch TV in those areas until cable came around?

I did some antennaweb searching. The most outback, rural areas of Utah have most major affiliates available from SLC via transmitters and they're 300 miles from any major city. New Philadelphia is 65 air miles from Cleveland and gets nothing.
I think I brought this up about Utah earlier in the thread. Where I'm unaware of Northern Utah, the SLC repeaters & translators went all the way down to St George, & covered most of the remote areas, With my portable with a single dipole, I was able to get more OTA channels from 48 miles south of downtown SLC, than I'm able to get out East here in Lake County with a roof antenna.

PBS is using repeaters in the area "Eastlake" on 63 (which is actually in Thompson in Geauga County & does not even cover Eastlake, this used to be the old Ch 67 Translator actually licensed out of Thompson), 64 in Conneaut, I believe there are a few others, think there was one on Ch 22 in Gates Mills... god knows where the tower was.

Even being out east in these RF holes the repeaters never benefited me there was one point PBS was a crapshoot dependant on the weather conditions.

Getting the Cleveland locals in Tuscarawas county won't happen for the average person. My cousin lives down there, and she gets WTRF-7 and WTOV-9. With more effort than just using rabbit ears, WDLI-17, WVPX-23, WEAO-49, WOAC-67 could be received. Fox 8 could probably use a repeater down there and in Mansfield. The Fox affiliate in Erie can cover Ashtabula.

Right now, but when they will eveidently go back to 8, I wonder. WSEE out of Erie (ABC) will be the only Erie reaching into my coverage area, too bad it isn't the CBS affiliate, dunno If I can depend on the measley 1.3 KW 19 will be throwing, looking at the patterens, 19 will better serve the south & west with the digital signal, while degrading the North & east over the analog.

Right now, but when they will eveidently go back to 8, I wonder. WSEE out of Erie (ABC) will be the only Erie reaching into my coverage area, too bad it isn't the CBS affiliate, dunno If I can depend on the measley 1.3 KW 19 will be throwing, looking at the patterens, 19 will better serve the south & west with the digital signal, while degrading the North & east over the analog.

WSEE in Erie is CBS. WJET is ABC.

WSEE in Erie is CBS. WJET is ABC.
WSEE-DT barely makes it to Ashtabula. WJET-DT otoh, makes it all the way to Madison - but that is a construction permit not their actual signal today. For that map you need to look at the "STA" special temproary autorization which is almost the same as WSEE.

BTW: WJET is on ch 58, when the analogs go away so does ch 58. They will probably revert to their current analog channel for their final digital assignment.

Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD.

Robert

Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD. Robert
I think that WOW has the same lineup for the entire Cleveland area. FWIW, tonight CBS-HD is on channel 201.

Did anyone else notice that Jeopardy was NOT in HD last night? I watched the last 15 minutes OTA and it definitely was SD.

It hasn't been for a few days. Don't know why...maybe older non-HD version repeats.

Did anyone else notice that Jeopardy was NOT in HD last night? I watched the last 15 minutes OTA and it definitely was SD.

I noticed the same thing.

I checked the info via the on-screen guide and it indicated it was new and it's first air was 2007, so it should've been in HD.

Wheel of Fortune turned HD around the same time Jeopardy did. Did anyone notice if Wheel is still broadcasting in HD? They are both Merv Griffin productions after all.....

WSEE-DT barely makes it to Ashtabula. WJET-DT otoh, makes it all the way to Madison - but that is a construction permit not their actual signal today. For that map you need to look at the "STA" special temproary autorization which is almost the same as WSEE.

BTW: WJET is on ch 58, when the analogs go away so does ch 58. They will probably revert to their current analog channel for their final digital assignment.

My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.

Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.

Did WOW in North Royalton change their digital channel lineup? I noticed some of the physical channels changed, and I can no longer get CBS-HD.


Another reason why I detest the cable Company so much, they are telling my neighbor she needs a box for HD, yet they do put the local HD channels on without a box up around 110-118, & include a few others, ESPN, & the Game Show Network, yet call them & ask them where they are they still claim a box is needed (at an extra charge of course). The seem to be continously changing them.

My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.

Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.

Generally, the lower the channel number the easier it is to cover an area at a specific ERP. The biggest difference is between UHF and VHF. While Channep 19 is easier to cover with than 61, the difference is fairly small.

My Bad, it was WJET on 58, which will cover Painesville & bisect Mentor (eventually after construction) now too bad it wasn't a CBS affiliate, seems like 19 will be iffy here, regardless of what their coverage map says.

Wasn't it always true the lower UHF channels had better coverage, over the higher ones, or did?... or was this how the FCC used to allocate them? I remember years ago when 43 & 61 were suppose to merge & go to the open allocation of channel 19, & that they were able to transmit higher power & have better coverage, just as it was the opposite with VHF, the Higher channels being prefered, & VHF being a broadcasting prefrence over UHF.
When WKBF-TV signed on ch 61 there was no such thing as a 4 MW transmitter (or an FCc approved powwer level). That is why WKBF went dark a few years after 43 signed on. Today WQHS-TV has 4 MW so the coverage is similar to ch 19's. The only entity making out on that deal is the electric company, which is probably why WOIO insists on being on ch 10 for their final digital channel. The higher the frequency the more power is needed to cover the same area. Unfortunately (as I repeatedly beat a dead horse) ch 10 is the worst place to be for WOIO.

Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom. Let them know that their digital Rf ch 10 is no place to be. Tell them about your problems in Lake County (or anywhere else within the DMA - I bet Sandusky and Mansfield also have issues).

We need to bombard them with the message.

Here are some facts to mention:

1.) Even though the U.S. will end the transition to digital in 2009 Canada is years behind. This means CFPL-TV will still need protection to the north, northeast, wacking Lake and Ashtabula counties' reception of WOIO-DT.

2.) WBNS-TV has been on ch 10 in Columbus longer that WOIO existed. WOIO successfully bumped WBNS off ch 10. Unlike our WJW, which can and will return to Rf ch 8 after the transition is over WBNS will not be allowed, thanks to WOIO's maneuvering to grab ch 10.
You may want to "CC" WBNS on any correspondence you send to WOIO.

Keep it civil - this is not a vendetta. We need to let Raycom know that they do have viewers using antennas to receive WOIO. We should not be addicted to the "cable pig" in order to receive what is rightfully a free channel.

Also mention how easy it is for you to receive the rest of the Cleveland local digital channels in compairison to WOIO (you do not want to mention any problems you are having with WKYC - they will be on ch 17 after the transition so the current issues with Rf 2 will soon be history). You might want to mention with WEWS on 15 and WKYC on 17 having WOIO-DT on 19 would make perfect sense (the same antenna aimed in the same direction will get you ABC, NBC & CBS in one neat package).

Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom. Let them know that their digital Rf ch 10 is no place to be. Tell them about your problems in Lake County (or anywhere else within the DMA - I bet Sandusky and Mansfield also have issues).

We need to bombard them with the message.

Here are some facts to mention:

1.) Even though the U.S. will end the transition to digital in 2009 Canada is years behind. This means CFPL-TV will still need protection to the north, northeast, wacking Lake and Ashtabula counties' reception of WOIO-DT.

2.) WBNS-TV has been on ch 10 in Columbus longer that WOIO existed. WOIO successfully bumped WBNS off ch 10. Unlike our WJW, which can and will return to Rf ch 8 after the transition is over WBNS will not be allowed, thanks to WOIO's maneuvering to grab ch 10.
You may want to "CC" WBNS on any correspondence you send to WOIO.

Keep it civil - this is not a vendetta. We need to let Raycom know that they do have viewers using antennas to receive WOIO. We should not be addicted to the "cable pig" in order to receive what is rightfully a free channel.

Also mention how easy it is for you to receive the rest of the Cleveland local digital channels in compairison to WOIO (you do not want to mention any problems you are having with WKYC - they will be on ch 17 after the transition so the current issues with Rf 2 will soon be history). You might want to mention with WEWS on 15 and WKYC on 17 having WOIO-DT on 19 would make perfect sense (the same antenna aimed in the same direction will get you ABC, NBC & CBS in one neat package).

I wish you luck; however, WOIO could "give a crap". They've been "beat up" by lots of us for failing to provide "DD 5.1" (channel 3-1 and 8-1 already do and 5-1 is supposedly in the process of getting the upgrade). Raycom isn't willing to spend a few thousand that would cost. If they won't spend the "peanuts" for DD 5.1, do you really think that they would change something that would save them significant power costs (not peanuts)?

That said, I'm on your side! Just don't "hold your breath"!

I wish you luck; however, WOIO could "give a crap". They've been "beat up" by lots of us for failing to provide "DD 5.1" (channel 3-1 and 8-1 already do and 5-1 is supposedly in the process of getting the upgrade). Raycom isn't willing to spend a few thousand that would cost. If they won't spend the "peanuts" for DD 5.1, do you really think that they would change something that would save them significant power costs (not peanuts)?

That said, I'm on your side! Just don't "hold your breath"!
I wonder if they realize that their signal is so hard to receive in the outer ring of the DMA that even cable companies may have problems receiving the signal.

Providing DD5.1 probably costs more than runnig a digital tramsmitter on ch 19. They are running analog 19 now, the power bill should go down if/when a digital signal is put on that frequency. While staying on ch 10 would cost even less, part of the savings will be in the reduced signal they will be required to put out thanks to the protection of CFPL-TV.

I beileve the real reason they wanted ch 10 so bad was becuase CBS lost it's VHF postion on ch 8 in the "FOX swap". There really isn't a good high VHF frequency available on this part of the planet - thay have all been taken by neighboring markets.

Providing DD5.1 probably costs more than runnig a digital tramsmitter on ch 19. They are running analog 19 now, the power bill should go down if/when a digital signal is put on that frequency. While staying on ch 10 would cost even less, part of the savings will be in the reduced signal they will be required to put out thanks to the protection of CFPL-TV.


Possibly so, but I've read that the one time cost of hardware to pass on the network DD 5.1 is around $3k. So we're dealing with a really cheap company.

Maybe it's time we did a "Shame on you" for WOIO & Raycom.

With the Super Bowl approaching, I think it would be a great idea to tell WOIO you want DD5.1 audio and also ask if they are going to turn off WeatherNow during the game.

WOIO contacts:
(hover over the name for the email address)
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=149455&nav=menu68_9_3

As I recall their response for DD 5.1 was, "We'll deliver it if CBS pays for it."

And you know maybe CBS should pay for it. It isn't that much money for a big company so if they won't spring for it why shouldn't CBS?

Does anyone know if the Cleveland High School Rock-Off was shot in HD? I wouldn't know since WVIZ still has a 7-watt nightlight of a transmitter. I'm seeing some pretty impressive local talent. I wonder if any other towns have a high-school "rock off" ?

http://www.cleveland.com/rockoff/

As I recall their response for DD 5.1 was, "We'll deliver it if CBS pays for it."

And you know maybe CBS should pay for it. It isn't that much money for a big company so if they won't spring for it why shouldn't CBS?

THAT is why I like OTA reception.

WKBN in Youngstown does 5.1, so I can aim the antenna over that way.

THAT is why I like OTA reception.

WKBN in Youngstown does 5.1, so I can aim the antenna over that way.

I actually would like to get an inexpensive pair of rabbit ears and see if I can't pick up some things. With the S3 I can OTA and cable both but wife has vetoed antenna. :(

I actually would like to get an inexpensive pair of rabbit ears and see if I can't pick up some things. With the S3 I can OTA and cable both but wife has vetoed antenna. :(

Does your wife realize that people don't notice antennas unless they're specifically looking for them? I don't notice them unless I LOOK for them.

Does your wife realize that people don't notice antennas unless they're specifically looking for them? I don't notice them unless I LOOK for them.
I would have to agree. Unless your house is in the middle of an open field with no tress or other back drop features, an antenna is not something too many people would notice. My wife agreed to an antenna only if it were a stealthy one, but I bet if I replaced it with a bigger "normal" antenna, she wouldn't notice. I might have to if my reception doesn't improve. :)

First it has nothing to do with what other people think. She doesn't like antenna's. She don't like them on the roof. She doesn't like them on top of the entertainment center.

Now that doesn't mean if I really wanted one I wouldn't get it but you have to realize that in any relationship sometimes you have to let them win now and then. If you don't they can cause you more problems.

So here's the bottom line. Do I keep my wife happy and don't get Dolby 5.1 on CBS? WEWS is suppose to get it soon enough. I get many other stations with DD5.1. Or do I stick some rabbit ears up there and annoy her?

Now if it ever came down to where TW stops carrying HD locals, for whatever reason then I'll make changes regardless. But that I can get her to understand.

Get a big antenna and put it in the attic. Run some RG6 quad shield to your entertainment center.

Robert

With the Super Bowl approaching, I think it would be a great idea to tell WOIO you want DD5.1 audio and also ask if they are going to turn off WeatherNow during the game.

WOIO contacts:
(hover over the name for the email address)
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=149455&nav=menu68_9_3
IMHO WeatherNow does not take up enough bandwidth to make a difference.

Unfortunately, the two local stations who do not have a subchannel are 720p so you can't compair WJW to WOIO (the other 1080i station, is WKYC who also runs a weather subchannel).

Good news from WOIO ! Just got this back from their engineer:


We are installing the equipment to carry 5.1 audio on all CBS
programming this week and testing it over the next 2 weeks. The
Superbowl will be carried in 5.1 on WOIO.

Weather Now will continue to be broadcast as our 19-2 sub-channel during
the Superbowl. However we do plan on installing new encoders for both
the HD and SD channels by summer that will improve the video quality of
both HD and SD streams on our digital transmission. This technology has
advanced over the past 5 years since we have gone digital and we realize
we need to up-date this equipment to take advantage of these advances.

Good news from WOIO ! Just got this back from their engineer:

Hey, look over there! It's a flying pig!

Seriously, though, that's great news!!

:D

Get a big antenna and put it in the attic. Run some RG6 quad shield to your entertainment center.

Robert
Attic antennas don't work well, in fact if you have insulation with any aluminum content you will get severe multipath issues. Anoter consideratin is a rotor - not recommended for attic installations unless your attic is large enough to give 360 deg. clearence to the antenna.

If all you are interested in is the Youngstown stations, get a Radio Shack UHF - only cat. 15-2160. I have one and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. No amplifier necessary. It's very directional so it gets it's "power" from its directional concentration.

Now that is news. I'll be glad to get the Super Bowl and othe shows in 5.1. And with WEWS bringing 5.1 on board, no need for antenna. :)

Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations? I'm considering switching since it looks more and more likely that MLB will be moving the Extra Innings package to DirecTV exclusively (contract not signed yet, but might be coming soon).

Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations? I'm considering switching since it looks more and more likely that MLB will be moving the Extra Innings package to DirecTV exclusively (contract not signed yet, but might be coming soon).

Just another reason why I'm glad I got rid of that SA 8300. I had MLB last year and I did think geeze, I kind of hate to give that up but if they go to D* I wouldn't have gotten it anyway. :)

Anyone have DirecTV? What's the current picture quality for the local HD stations?
I have D* & receive locals a couple different ways. I still primarily use an HR10-250 Tivo which gets them OTA & the picture quality is fine. I also picked up an HR20 to play with & I haven't had any trouble with the local MPEG4 feed. Picture quality wise it's in the same ballpark as the Tivo OTA. I haven't done extensive comparitive tests as of yet though, but I've never found myself wishing I'd recorded an HD program on the Tivo due to it looking poor in MPEG4.

I still use the Tivo more on a day-to-day basis but the HR20 looks solid overall. And there have been multiple times where I had OTA issues, but the HR20 recorded the show fine so I had a watchable copy of a show we didn't want to miss.

I have D* & receive locals a couple different ways. I still primarily use an HR10-250 Tivo which gets them OTA & the picture quality is fine. I also picked up an HR20 to play with & I haven't had any trouble with the local MPEG4 feed. Picture quality wise it's in the same ballpark as the Tivo OTA. I haven't done extensive comparitive tests as of yet though, but I've never found myself wishing I'd recorded an HD program on the Tivo due to it looking poor in MPEG4.

I still use the Tivo more on a day-to-day basis but the HR20 looks solid overall. And there have been multiple times where I had OTA issues, but the HR20 recorded the show fine so I had a watchable copy of a show we didn't want to miss.
Arn't the HD locals on D* just the "big 4"? (i.e. no WUAB, WVIZ or WBNX -which isn't even hd yet). You'd still need OTA until they found room for all the HD locals.

Arn't the HD locals on D* just the "big 4"? (i.e. no WUAB, WVIZ or WBNX -which isn't even hd yet). You'd still need OTA until they found room for all the HD locals.

I don't think so. When they made the HR20 available they started broadcasting locals in HD.

If I read the website correctly, it's just the big 4 at this point. I get decent OTA reception most of the time, so it's not that big of a deal, but I won't be paying extra for the HD locals.

If I read the website correctly, it's just the big 4 at this point. I get decent OTA reception most of the time, so it's not that big of a deal, but I won't be paying extra for the HD locals.

I read your post incorrectly. Yes, that's all they have for local broadcast. No MY Network as far as I know and of course the CW isn't available in HD yet. I think. :)

I read your post incorrectly. Yes, that's all they have for local broadcast. No MY Network as far as I know and of course the CW isn't available in HD yet. I think. :)

I'll bet they won't offer those in HD until analog is entirely gone.

Actually, they might offer WBNX once it goes digital (I checked and they offer CW in other markets).

Since Murdock owns D* and MYNETWORK is part of Newscorp (FOX) it's interesting that they don't have MYNETWORK as part of their HD offering.

I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..

I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..

This site is a great place to start: http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..
Speaking from experience, your reception will also heavily depend on your surroundings too. If you have tall trees or hills in the direction antennaweb is pointing you, your color coded range selection will jump up a color (stronger antenna required). The higher you can mount your antenna the better. Make sure the antenna you buy has a powered pre-amp and that you use the best RG6 cable you can buy. I am in Kent and get both Cleveland and Youngstown stations. A rotor would probably help you tune both locations in.

Tom

Speaking from experience, your reception will also heavily depend on your surroundings too. If you have tall trees or hills in the direction antennaweb is pointing you, your color coded range selection will jump up a color (stronger antenna required). The higher you can mount your antenna the better. Make sure the antenna you buy has a powered pre-amp and that you use the best RG6 cable you can buy. I am in Kent and get both Cleveland and Youngstown stations. A rotor would probably help you tune both locations in.

Tom A "stronger" antenna amped or not will not help you if there are obstructions which cause multipath. I can see the signals for WFMJ and WYTV but they keep droping to "0" and back up resulting in a no-lock situation. I need to get my antenna a little bit higher, or move it to another part of the roof in order to get a clean shot at the full Yongstown OTA (I do get WKBN-DT 24/7 they have the highest tower and the most power). I use Younstown ans an example for you since those transmitters are ~57 miles from my location, which is comprable to Canton to Cleveland.

..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..
Tim,

I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.

I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.

The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.

Tim,

I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.

I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.

The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.


Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..

I'm looking at trying to get an HDTV in the next couple of weeks..I live In Canton and my provider is Dish Network..I' ll probably have to get the vip 622 receiver upgrade. Dish is not offering Cleveland HDTV in the forseeable future. Question: I know I will have to get a OTA antenna if I want Cleveland HDTV..How big will I have to go and how does Youngstown fit in..How good are the smaller antennas..

Unless a hill is in your way, Youngstown is often easier from Canton than Cleveland is. WKBN should be no problem, you'll probably get WFMJ, and if you're east of Market Ave you'll probably get WYTV digital too.

As far as the Cleveland stations, the biggest trouble spot is WOIO. The others should be OK. You might have issues with WKYC because of low-VHF interference, but that's less a distance issue than an issue with what other things are flying around in the air around you.

Tim,

I'll second the comment that it largely depends on your specific location - topography, nearby obstructions, elevation, etc. I'm in North Canton near Portage St. about a mile east of I-77. I'm also on one of the highest points in my neighborhood. My antenna is on a ~30-foot tower. My main problem is receiving WKYC-DT. WOIO-DT can be touchy at times, especially when tropo conditions cause the London, Ont analog channel 10 to interfere with WOIO-DT. I receive all other Cleveland and Akron digitals with no problem.

I am able to receive WFMJ-DT and WKBN-DT from Y-town with an amplified indoor antenna. In fact, I seem to be the only one who actually has an easier time receiving WFMJ-DT around here (it is actually lower power than WKBN-DT). You can probably forget about WYTV-DT in Y-town - they are much lower power than the other two. I have never been able to receive them myself.

The more height you can get on your antenna, the better your results will be.

My cousin gets WYTV from Louisville rather well.

Attic antennas don't work well, in fact if you have insulation with any aluminum content you will get severe multipath issues. Anoter consideratin is a rotor - not recommended for attic installations unless your attic is large enough to give 360 deg. clearence to the antenna.

If all you are interested in is the Youngstown stations, get a Radio Shack UHF - only cat. 15-2160. I have one and I get WKBN-DT 24/7 from Parma. No amplifier necessary. It's very directional so it gets it's "power" from its directional concentration.

I'm running a large RS Outdoor in my Attic (the 120 mile one even though I'm 28-34 from the farm)... although I have analog only upstairs where I'm using this, I'm very satisfied with the results over the Rabbit Ears not crystal clear except on 8 & 19 but watchable on all the majors., the amplified Phillips MANT410 Ears seems to do a bit better job on 43, 55 & 61, where the Attic setup is better on 3,5, & 25.

I have this hanging from the trusses with wire, with a slightly elevated end on the UHF portion, seems to work a bit better.

Would I be better off installing a UHF only with a combiner?

First it has nothing to do with what other people think. She doesn't like antenna's. She don't like them on the roof. She doesn't like them on top of the entertainment center.

Now that doesn't mean if I really wanted one I wouldn't get it but you have to realize that in any relationship sometimes you have to let them win now and then. If you don't they can cause you more problems.

So here's the bottom line. Do I keep my wife happy and don't get Dolby 5.1 on CBS? WEWS is suppose to get it soon enough. I get many other stations with DD5.1. Or do I stick some rabbit ears up there and annoy her?

Now if it ever came down to where TW stops carrying HD locals, for whatever reason then I'll make changes regardless. But that I can get her to understand.

I don't get it, Wife own stock in TW? ... just the sight of a cable bill would freak me out, most of us (I think) grew up without cable & had that unsightly thing on the roof (everyone had one).
The day TV becomes a Utility, is the day it goes off (of course there are DVD's to watch too).

:D Override the wifes veto! I'll agree my ears are a bit akward & unsightly, but the blue LED does double as a Night Light

Spongebob & his friends don't visit my house! :D

I don't get it, Wife own stock in TW? ... just the sight of a cable bill would freak me out, most of us (I think) grew up without cable & had that unsightly thing on the roof (everyone had one).
The day TV becomes a Utility, is the day it goes off (of course there are DVD's to watch too).

:D Override the wifes veto! I'll agree my ears are a bit akward & unsightly, but the blue LED does double as a Night Light

Spongebob & his friends don't visit my house! :D
And most (many or at least some!) of us grew up on dirt roads that were oiled once or twice a year too!

Seriously, the only reason a TW bill would freak anyone out is because they see it once a month, unlike the $$'s spent on cigarettes or booze, which some of us choose not to partake. Some people have different priorities and adjust their budget to accomodate those priorities.

Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..
If you must use an indoor antenna try to find a window facing in the direction of the towers, otherwise the walls will severely attenuate the OTA signal.

I live right inside the Cleveland antenna farm - "rabbit ears" give a lousy picture unless they are near a window. Aluminum siding plays a big part, but so does insulation, electrical wiring etc. inside the walls. Amplifiers only amplify what is input - so the old GIGO factor has to be considered (Garbage In, Garbage Out). With digital any multipath - which shows up as ghosts in analog reception, will totally wipeout any chance at reception (note my earlier post where some of the Youngstown station go from 70 to 0 - if the signal stays at 70 I'd get a lock).

Thanks for the replies thus far. I know as a general rule, higher is better. However I am in a rental situation where the landlord doesnt want antennas on the roof. He did let me put a metal pole up for my E* satellite antenna..I dont have the funds to put up a tower so unless the E* installer can mount the antenna on the pole (with digging the ground up to hide the cable, as it is a pretty good run-Don't want to get into that expense, either), I am going to have to go with an indoor TV set top amplified antenna. The area I am in is fairly open. Not a lot of buildings real close. I live in a one story duplex near Aultman Hospital on Canton's southwest end. I'll probably get the best indoor antenna I can find..I should be able to get Canton, Akron, maybe Steubenville and at least 27 in Youngstown..

FYI:

o They make antennas specifically to clip on the back of a satellite dish

o You can mux the digital signal from the satellite dish with the antenna signal on the same co-ax cable. The E* guy should be able to do this for you, or you can buy some cheap splitter/combiners made exactly for this purpose.

o Any way you hook it up would probably benefit from an amplifier. They make some that don't require additional power (self powered) but they don't work as well as the ones that plug into the wall.

o The vip622 from E* is an excellent box, but the reception for OTA signals is not as good as my A2000 TV. I can get many more and stronger signals on the same piece of co-ax from the TV than the vip622.

FYI:

o They make antennas specifically to clip on the back of a satellite dish

o You can mux the digital signal from the satellite dish with the antenna signal on the same co-ax cable. The E* guy should be able to do this for you, or you can buy some cheap splitter/combiners made exactly for this purpose.

o Any way you hook it up would probably benefit from an amplifier. They make some that don't require additional power (self powered) but they don't work as well as the ones that plug into the wall.

o The vip622 from E* is an excellent box, but the reception for OTA signals is not as good as my A2000 TV. I can get many more and stronger signals on the same piece of co-ax from the TV than the vip622.

It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.

I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?

It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.

I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?

TiVo's S3 has an excellent OTA tuner. I just haven't tried it but everyone reports how well it works. Some say you can use a coat hanger and get good reception.

It's nice to be able to integrate OTA with Satellite though, not having to switch back and forth and being able to use the DVR for broadcast, etc.

I wonder if DISH's next-gen box will have a better OTA tuner?

Dish's tuner is good. It gets Cleveland's stations at "90%". But my TV is better and can also tune in Youngstown and Akron, which the Dish tuner has trouble with.

Dish's tuner is good. It gets Cleveland's stations at "90%". But my TV is better and can also tune in Youngstown and Akron, which the Dish tuner has trouble with.

Where do you live?

Where do you live?

Oops, sorry. Chagrin Falls/Bainbridge area. 422 and 306.

Azteca America adds Boston, Cleveland
Azteca America has just signed and affiliated with WFXZ-CA (24) Boston (was HSN Network and is owned By Boston Broadcasting Corp.) and Commercial Broadcasting Corp.'s (Independent) WRAP-CA (32) in Cleveland, both low powers. Both of these stations have solid coverage in the core cities, where much of the Hispanic population is located. This rounds out the Top 25 markets for them. This is a major score for them, because Univision, Telemundo and Telefutura are already in Beantown. Cleveland only had Univision, WQHS-TV (61), for Hispanic television. WFXZ is located on the same tower as FOX-TV in Boston; WRAP is located on The Society General building, 25-30 stories high. Azteca America Spot TV Sales will most likely be adding these stations to their list as well. Ouote from Television business report

If you go to wikipedia, it lists WFXZ as being Azteca America, but WRAP as being Corner Store TV. If this did occur, what is the actual coverage of the station? Zap2.it has no listings for ch 32 via OTA or for that matter cleveland.com has no stories on WRAP whatsoever.


http://www.rbr.com/tvepaper/issue140-06-gio.html

http://www.cleveland.com/pdspecials.../more/hugo.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFXZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRAP-CA

Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA

Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=CA232021.html

My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.

Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA

Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=CA232021.html

My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.

Unless univision has plans for ch 61 that involves expanding the viewer base, I would assume that since it was a group station deal that allowed them to buy WQHS, why not just keep it . The last I heard, the general manager was out of Washington DC and it was pretty much coming off satellite execpt for a few local spots inculding one for the big sale at the summit county fairgrounds.

I know there has been a growth for spanish speaking Americans here in Ohio but unless univision is also targeting all of Northern Ohio as well since they are now people who can understand and speak spanish in Youngstown,Canton,Lorain, Akron, and Mansfield in addition to the core group in the Cleveland area. Ch 61 can be seen with some snow here in Youngstown and until late last year, Youngstown had an all Spanish station WASN-AM so could that be a part of the reason?


http://www.univision.net/corp/en/utg.jsp

Hi,

I noticed this xmttr holding down the channel allocation with info-mercials.

See my post on page 40 of this thread. At least the Fee-Cee'C's didnt give it to
" Air Alkida"! (but that may be in the works)


/Dan

Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA

Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=CA232021.html
.

I can get 32 on my outdoor, though it is fixed without a rotor toward the farm, so it is several degrees off.

WRAP used to show 24 hours of Rap Videos in the late '90's


My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.Signal would not make it out to Painesville & Geneva then. :)

Some of the videos are entertaining on Saturday Mornings. :D

And most (many or at least some!) of us grew up on dirt roads that were oiled once or twice a year too!

Seriously, the only reason a TW bill would freak anyone out is because they see it once a month, unlike the $$'s spent on cigarettes or booze, which some of us choose not to partake. Some people have different priorities and adjust their budget to accomodate those priorities.

I lived on a gravel road that was tarred & stoned once a year... that count? :D

Right now basic cable would cut in to close to 10% of my monthly income, so I've scaled back my lifestyle not to include cable, cell, ect, still on dialup here too, & that's not going to change anytime soon. :eek:

Getting back to topic, my attic antenna is above the aluminum siding line, yet my rabbit ears aren't , perhaps the effect why my indoor antenna(s) cannot pick up 3 & 5?

WRAP used to show 24 hours of Rap Videos in the late '90's


This is a rare instance when a change to infomercials is actually an IMPROVEMENT in programming! ;)

Here's the FCC record for WRAP-CA...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=WRAP-CA

Here's the FCC estimated coverage of WRAP-CA, although it can extend quite a ways beyond this...
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=CA232021.html

My question is why hasn't Univision moved to a LP station and free up channel 61 for better use.
An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.

WRAP is located on The Society General building, 25-30 stories highI never heard of that building. The FCC map looks like the WRAP-LP tower is in the vicinity of E.9th betwen Lakeside and St. Clair.

I lived on a gravel road that was tarred & stoned once a year... that count? :D

Right now basic cable would cut in to close to 10% of my monthly income, so I've scaled back my lifestyle not to include cable, cell, ect, still on dialup here too, & that's not going to change anytime soon. :eek:

Getting back to topic, my attic antenna is above the aluminum siding line, yet my rabbit ears aren't , perhaps the effect why my indoor antenna(s) cannot pick up 3 & 5?
The affect of aluminum siding definitely affects VHF more than UHF, however at least for digital it also affects UHF. Case in point: WVIZ-DT. I only live 3.5 miles from that short solar powered stick :D yet I cannot get a lock on that signal unless I run a long coax to my back sliding door. Aiming through the wall, or even out the side window (which gets me virtually everything else just fine) won't work.

Frustrated with WKYC.

I wish the guys at WKYC could remember to flip the HD switch at night.
Several times this year they've ran all or parts of my favorite shows without hitting the button to broadcast the program in HD.

All the stations have been guilty of this from time to time; but I can think of at least 4 or 5 times that WKYC has done this.

I usally watch on my DVR so I don't bother calling the station because It's often several hours after the show has aired before I get around to watching it.

The last time I noticed this problem was Monday night during "Heroes." They ran about the first 10 minutes in SD.

An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.

If that's the case, then I say put a LP transmitter in Lorain or wherever the hispanic/latino population exists. Even that would be doing them a favor. I'm just really fed up with this situation because I don't think that the Spanish speaking people should be catered to. It's not helping the situation by letting them continue to get by in this country with speaking Spanish only. This really makes me angry that people stick up for this kind of thing while we get the raw deal. But apparently, money is the driving issue in the world. I say, free up channel 61 from any foreign language so that we can all watch it.

Multicultural broadcasting is now airing infomercials on WOAC.

Hey gang, I'm trying to find out what channel "Fuel TV" is on...I must have deleted it from my tv's channel's and I can't find it now...I don't use the time warner cable box, just the built in tuner from my tv..I seem to remember it being 105.2 something or around there..

I'm in Mentor, Ohio and just have basic cable..no digital cable...Time Warner's website is just about useless..Thanks in advance.

Steve

Did WOAC drop Shop at Home? I dont really care but I am just wondering. It seems like it is never on when I pass that channel.

I am sort of doing the same thing as Steve
but with I am on Massillon Cable TV.

Something happened on Thrusday and all the HD channels have been removed or moved to somewhere else.

I just need to find them.

Example 3.1 is no longer WKYC-HD it is now the Animal Channel ( not in HD)
WEWS is no longer on 5.1 etc

Did WOAC drop Shop at Home? I dont really care but I am just wondering. It seems like it is never on when I pass that channel.


When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..

When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..

Do you you know what they permanently plan on replacing it with? It just looks like infomercials now.

Do you you know what they permanently plan on replacing it with? It just looks like infomercials now.


I don't know what they'll premanently replace it with, but every half hour they have an announcement stating that if anyone is interested in having a program on WOAC, they are told to call a New York City (212) phone number. Now, from what little I've read of Multicultural Broadcasting, they seem to specialize in foreign language (not just Spanish) Programs. That doesnt mean they plan that for WOAC..just speculating here..

Hey gang, I'm trying to find out what channel "Fuel TV" is on...I must have deleted it from my tv's channel's and I can't find it now...I don't use the time warner cable box, just the built in tuner from my tv..I seem to remember it being 105.2 something or around there..

I'm in Mentor, Ohio and just have basic cable..no digital cable...Time Warner's website is just about useless..Thanks in advance.

Steve
105-2?? they seem to be moving things around here, I don't have cable but my neighbor does, & I set her set up for auto program.

TW insists you need the box for Local HD, they are there with a direct connection into the set.. if you can find them.

An LPTV signal in Downtown Cleveland would not make it out to Lorain. There are probably more Hispanics in Lorain per capita than Cleveland.

I never heard of that building. The FCC map looks like the WRAP-LP tower is in the vicinity of E.9th betwen Lakeside and St. Clair.

Key Bank Have A building There?.. unfamil with downtown now.

Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's, without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.

Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.

They really don't know what they are talking about. Seriously, CSR's on cable are so misinformed.

I've documented a situation I've been going through with TW about missing 3 channels that I don't really care about. Myself and another S3 user were having the same problem and we also didn't have audio on these channels. This makes for good reading, if your interested look here. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=338064)

I don't know what they'll premanently replace it with, but every half hour they have an announcement stating that if anyone is interested in having a program on WOAC, they are told to call a New York City (212) phone number. Now, from what little I've read of Multicultural Broadcasting, they seem to specialize in foreign language (not just Spanish) Programs. That doesnt mean they plan that for WOAC..just speculating here..

From the corporate website, they are an asian broadcaster. I found this asian broadcaster imaginasia.tv that is expanding its operations thoughout the US and are looking for stations to take the programming they offer and they like to buy blocks of airtime on stations. Most of their programming is either in english or is subtitled in english, so if WOAC takes their programming it would not be a total loss. Their angle is on the cultural and not so much the language. From the promos on their website the shows don't look too bad if they would air them but multicultural also has SINO Television which is Chinese language 24/7.

This from the multicultural website: SINO Television

Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Launched in 1998, Sino Television offers a comprehensive schedule of Chinese language programming including news, sports, entertainment, financial reports, drama, cooking shows, community programs and movies.
Sino Television is available on Time Warner Cable channels 78, 501, 502 and Cablevision 238 in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region.
With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI’s television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.

Also: Sino Television Broadcasting

Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Available via cable TV, satellite TV, IPTV, and soon broadcast TV.

I think by airing imaginasia.tv they have a better shot of sucess since it is programming that for the most part is in english and has cross over appeal but all Chinese in a market that has a total asian houshold of 20,460 or 1.4% and Asian market # 30 you have to be kidding me. Now if the infomation on the corporate website is correct we now have 2 waste frequencies. Just check out the links and see for yourself.




http://www.mrbi.net/tvgroup.htm

http://www.mrbi.net/index.htm

http://www.iatv.tv/index2.php[/ur

[url]http://www.iatv.tv/press_release.php

http://www.mrbi.net/sinotv.htm

http://www.mrbi.net/chinesemediagroup.htm

http://www.am1300.com/program_content.html

When Scripps Howard sold the Shop At Home stations, they shut down the network too. Jewelry Television simply was put in its place till recently..

After Jewerly television took over the remains of shop at home they had a Resurrection and made at an overnite service. Why I don't know but it seems like a waste of frequency to have another home shopping network.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shop_at_Home_Network

http://www.shopathometv.com/home.jsp

Multicultural broadcasting is now airing infomercials on WOAC.

From Wikipedia, multicultural closed on Cleveland, San Francisco and Raleigh stations last month Dec 20 th. Still waiting on Bridgeport, Connecticut (New York) ,Boston, and Barstow, California (LA) though. I would assume different programming is coming but probally not until they close on all 6 stations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOAC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_Television

Key Bank Have A building There?.. unfamil with downtown now.

It's the old Society Center building downtown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Tower

Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
Station Dial Pos. HD-1 Format HD-2 Format
WXRK-FM 92.3 Rock Rock/Rap Hybrid
WAKS-FM 96.5 Top 40 All New Hits
WNCX-FM 98.5 Classic Rock Spanish Hit Radio
WGAR-FM 99.5 Country None
WQAL-FM 104.1 Contemporary Interactive Requests
WCLV-FM 104.9 Classical None
WMVX-FM 106.5 Contemporary Adult Alternative
WNWV-FM 107.3 Smooth Jazz None
WJMO-AM 1490 Gospel None
Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel? :mad: I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks :)

Why are NO Akron or Canton radio stations yet broadcasting in HD?

Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
Station Dial Pos. HD-1 Format HD-2 Format
WXRK-FM 92.3 Rock Rock/Rap Hybrid
WAKS-FM 96.5 Top 40 All New Hits
WNCX-FM 98.5 Classic Rock Spanish Hit Radio
WGAR-FM 99.5 Country None
WQAL-FM 104.1 Contemporary Interactive Requests
WCLV-FM 104.9 Classical None
WMVX-FM 106.5 Contemporary Adult Alternative
WNWV-FM 107.3 Smooth Jazz None
WJMO-AM 1490 Gospel None
Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel? :mad: I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks :)

It would be nice if WCPN was HD, because I'm a news junkie and would rather listen to news stuff in the off hours instead of jazz. But let's face it until HD radio becomes standard in new vehicles, it won't gain any traction.

Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports? They really should be an ESPN station. WTAM are basically shills for all the sports teams in Cleveland. I love the sports talk too, but my god, they are nothing close to a real news/talk station. Listen to WLS, WGN or WBBM AM in Chicago for a clue as to what a real news/talk station should be doing. Rick Gilmour was the only guy on WTAM that talked about local issues, and WTAM kicked him to the curb for seasonal sports programming.

It would be nice if WCPN was HD, because I'm a news junkie and would rather listen to news stuff in the off hours instead of jazz. But let's face it until HD radio becomes standard in new vehicles, it won't gain any traction.

Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports? They really should be an ESPN station. WTAM are basically shills for all the sports teams in Cleveland. I love the sports talk too, but my god, they are nothing close to a real news/talk station. Listen to WLS, WGN or WBBM AM in Chicago for a clue as to what a real news/talk station should be doing. Rick Gilmour was the only guy on WTAM that talked about local issues, and WTAM kicked him to the curb for seasonal sports programming.

WTAM 1100 does Local talk 9-12 Noon with Bob Frantz, As far as Sports Talk, 1540 Daytimer WWGK is the ESPN Radio outlet (The former WABQ), While WKNR-850 is Fox Sports Radio..Both are owned by Craig Karmazin (Son of Mel) A bright young broadcaster who also owns stations in Milwaukee and Madison, Wisconsin and West Palm Beach, Florida. He recently bought KNR from Salem Communications.

While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.

Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.

OK, I have to ask this. Is HD radio just another name for digital?
JJK

OK, I have to ask this. Is HD radio just another name for digital?
JJK

That is exactly right. They simply carve out a slice of your allocated frequency bandwidth and use it to transmit a low bit rate digital datastream. I have an HD receiver in my car and the quality is no better than an average MP3 or even satellite radio. The term "HD Radio" is all marketing and is light years away from anything I would term HD quality audio such as SACD or 96 or 192 bit DVD-Audio(I'm not talking about lower quality lossy systems such as Dolby Digital or DTS). About the only thing it really has going for it is less background noise and being able to see the song title and artist listed(not all even do that). As far as listenability, you are not giving up a thing compared to a good quality FM analog station. If the station used all of its available bandwith that would be a different story - but for now that's just the way it is.

That is exactly right. They simply carve out a slice of your allocated frequency bandwidth and use it to transmit a low bit rate digital datastream. I have an HD receiver in my car and the quality is no better than an average MP3 or even satellite radio. The term "HD Radio" is all marketing and is light years away from anything I would term HD quality audio such as SACD or 96 or 192 bit DVD-Audio(I'm not talking about lower quality lossy systems such as Dolby Digital or DTS). About the only thing it really has going for it is less background noise and being able to see the song title and artist listed(not all even do that). As far as listenability, you are not giving up a thing compared to a good quality FM analog station. If the station used all of its available bandwith that would be a different story - but for now that's just the way it is.

Matter of fact, there is one station on XM called "fine tuneing" and they play a wide variety of stuff from modern classical to progressive rock and even some peoetry every once in a while. That really reminds me of what FM was like in the early days.

Anyway they actually broadcast in Dolby 5.1, but you need to have a receiver that has an XM radio capable of receiving the Dolby 5.1. Now that beats the crap out of any of this "so called" HD radio.

WCLV 104.9, which broadcasts classical music, has had the following information posted on its website since 2003:

WCLV 104.9 has been broadcasting in HD (digital radio) since Tuesday, August 14th, 2003. WCLV was the second station in the Cleveland area after WNWV to begin transmitting the HD signal. It also the third classical music station in the nation to do so, the others being KDFC, San Francisco. and WUSF, Tampa.

Since then, there hasn't been much HD activity, and WCLV has been quiet about it because there weren't any HD radios available. Well, that is beginning to change. Boston Acoustics has its HD Receptor table model radio available on the Internet, and we understand will soon be selling it through Radio Shack. Radio Shack is also supposed to have its own brand of HD radio available.

The advantage of HD originally was that the sound was to be so much better than analog. Frankly, when there is a qualty analog signal, such as WCLV's, there's not that much difference. There is virtually no difference with heavily processed rock programming. At least you can't tell any difference,

The current excitement about HD centers around the ability to broadcast additional signals with different programs, the so-called HD2 and HD3 streams. Many stations, including WCLV, are planning for new programming on these channels. However, WCLV is taking it slowly, as we and others in the industry have found a flaw. When HD was announced, we were told that the HD coverage would be equal to the analog coverage. Unfortunately, it just isn't true. HD coverage is about 60% of the analog signal. This is very disappointing. And, our experiments show that an HD radio needs an antenna, a rabbit ear TV antenna or a dipole.
http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=178&contentId=25747

WCLV 104.9, which broadcasts classical music, has had the following information posted on its website since 2003:

However, WCLV is taking it slowly, as we and others in the industry have found a flaw. When HD was announced, we were told that the HD coverage would be equal to the analog coverage. Unfortunately, it just isn't true. HD coverage is about 60% of the analog signal. This is very disappointing. And, our experiments show that an HD radio needs an antenna, a rabbit ear TV antenna or a dipole. [/FONT]
http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=178&contentId=25747


The fact that one has to have an antenna to receive ANY digital radio has kept me from getting it so far. Being in Canton, I don't even get the WCLV 104.9 analog signal, let alone any digital..Akron/Canton had no digital on that I know of..I still want to look into it though...

Re sports talk, isn't our so-called "news/talk" station WTAM enough sports?
I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.

Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.
I tried XM-radio. It was so-so. I don't drive enough to really get anything out of it, and the sound quality on my unit sucked. I'm sure it was just my unit, because other people talk about cd-sound, but mine was atrocious. I am buying a new head unit for my car, so I figured I would investigate the HD-Radio scene. The cost is very similar, and if certain stations I like were in digital, I would buy it immediately. My typical usage consists of radio for talk/news, and my ipod for music. If it makes you feel any better my new head unit will be Sirius + XM ready. I'm buying the JVC KD-HDR1.

For anyone interested - I emailed 90.3 WCPN, regarding the status of HD-Radio at their station. I'll let you know if/when I hear back =]

The problem with multicasting is you are further dividing the available bitrate between multiple channels. I think all you have now to begin with is 96 kilobits per second which seems to only give you average sound quality at best - on one channel. If you actually tried to have two music channels I think the quality would really suck. Maybe if you only added something that work with a very low bitrate like news or traffic updates it might be OK. Unfortunately my HD radio is one of the earlier ones that does not have multichannel reception so I can't give a good first hand opinion. Someone did ask whether there are any Akron stations broadcasting in HD - the iBiquity site does list one - WKDD at 98.1: http://www.hdradio.com/hd_digital_radio_format_list.php

Why are NO Akron or Canton radio stations yet broadcasting in HD?
I do beleive the new 101.7 WHOF out of North Canton does HD. That is what the site says. WKSU does as well.

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdradio_find_a_station/OH/StnMarket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOF

http://www.my1017.com/main.html

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio

I do beleive the new 101.7 WHOF out of North Canton does HD. That is what the site says. WKSU does as well.

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdradio_find_a_station/OH/StnMarket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOF

http://www.my1017.com/main.html

http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio


Youre right about WHOF..The former WJER-FM Dover..The one station I might get in digital without an antenna

While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.

Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.

I second that thought. Local radio is horrible in Cleveland these days. What is HD radio anyways? I think HD is the latest "it" word and radio is trying to jump on the bandwagon in an attempt to make a dollar anyway they can.

With the amount of same song replays, constant traffic/weather reports, too many commercials and overall lack of content and originality has left me no other choice but to switch to satellite. I am in the process of switching over to Sirius.

I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.


I tried XM-radio. It was so-so. I don't drive enough to really get anything out of it, and the sound quality on my unit sucked. I'm sure it was just my unit, because other people talk about cd-sound, but mine was atrocious. I am buying a new head unit for my car, so I figured I would investigate the HD-Radio scene. The cost is very similar, and if certain stations I like were in digital, I would buy it immediately. My typical usage consists of radio for talk/news, and my ipod for music. If it makes you feel any better my new head unit will be Sirius + XM ready. I'm buying the JVC KD-HDR1.

For anyone interested - I emailed 90.3 WCPN, regarding the status of HD-Radio at their station. I'll let you know if/when I hear back =]

If you used it in your car without hardwiring it I'll bet it sucked. I have mine hard wired for the car but it is totally portable so I can take it out and use it with my home sound system as well.

If your happy with that commercial crap they feed you on FM, that's up to you. XM is more for the free thinking person.

Hi Everyone, fellow Clevelander here. I know this is an HDTV thread, but I was curious if anyone has tried HD-Radio in Cleveland? I found an online listing of available stations:
Station Dial Pos. HD-1 Format HD-2 Format
WXRK-FM 92.3 Rock Rock/Rap Hybrid
WAKS-FM 96.5 Top 40 All New Hits
WNCX-FM 98.5 Classic Rock Spanish Hit Radio
WGAR-FM 99.5 Country None
WQAL-FM 104.1 Contemporary Interactive Requests
WCLV-FM 104.9 Classical None
WMVX-FM 106.5 Contemporary Adult Alternative
WNWV-FM 107.3 Smooth Jazz None
WJMO-AM 1490 Gospel None
Does anyone know if that list is up to date? I was hoping 90.3 NPR would be in HD. Is it true that the only HD AM is gospel? :mad: I love the sports talk on AM. Thanks :)

Strange, I though Digital CD Quality radio would far precede HDTV, When I inquired at Circuit City about recievers that would pick this up (to replace my 1981 Pioneer SX-3700 reciever) about 6-8 months back, I was told this type of recieveing equipment was way high end & would not be available to the general public for quite some years... I was then told there recievers are now becoming Sirrius/Xm compatable (there we go with the monthly fee again).

So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display (No I don't have new cars either, seldom do I ever even ride in one newer than a 1996) So when is this technology becoming available? reason I haven't upgraded my Reciever in 26 years?

Hey Bismark, yeah, it was the same when I called Comcast when I was getting my tv a couple years ago..they told me I wouldn't get any hd content, not even local's, without their cable box...of course, they either don't know wtf they are talking about, or they are just lying.

Desmo, I'm in Mentor too so likely I'm looking at the same setup, although I personally don't have cable, my neighbor does, when I plugged the cable directly into the set (as the increase to $86/month for the digital box that kept screwing up anyway became too much, 4 burned out boxes within 15 months.. reliable eh?), it seemed I was continuously resetting her cable box, which became an annoyance, unplug it for a day plug it back in seems to work fine for a few days ect.... often had to bypass the box anyway.... so HBO & SHO is gone.. big deal it was becoming more trouble than what it was worth.

Seems the locals are around 111, & 118, with Fox being currently on 83-2, your 40 plus digital music channels are on 115-1 through 50 something.

Occasionally they change or I'm finding new things, not everything is there, I did find the GSN & ESPN in digital, a lot of the channels are black, yet they still autoprogrammed.

With the cable directly into the set, WS is now available, the picture is far superio, the CS at Comcast & TW said another box had to be rented for HD (along with another fee), I found otherwise. :)

I really like to listen to the morning shows on 850 am during my commute.


I Miss the Grouch Club Myself :( :)

It's the old Society Center building downtown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_Tower

Perhaps where WRAP's Transmitter is.

While HD radio does produce a nice clean sound, it still nothing more then some corporation telling you what you should listen too, along with a whole bunch of commercials. It's hard to put quality into crap.

Satellite radio is the way to go. I have XM, I never turn on FM anymore.

Initally too, cable TV had 2 concepts, first to bring TV into areas that lacked it, second to provide commercial free programming for a paid premium... though now wghen I was trying to find something on my brothers cable in Miami/Dade Comcast, I was still hard pressed to find anythinfg other than infomercials.

Eventually Commercialisim will end up on XM/Sirrius when everyone is hooked, I'll agree, I quit listening to Stern when he became more commercials than himself & he was constanttly trying to sell me something, same goes with Rover, I'm getting disgusted, well there is always CD''s & Cassettes for the Car. :)

From the corporate website, they are an asian broadcaster. I found this asian broadcaster imaginasia.tv that is expanding its operations thoughout the US and are looking for stations to take the programming they offer and they like to buy blocks of airtime on stations. Most of their programming is either in english or is subtitled in english, so if WOAC takes their programming it would not be a total loss. Their angle is on the cultural and not so much the language. From the promos on their website the shows don't look too bad if they would air them but multicultural also has SINO Television which is Chinese language 24/7.

This from the multicultural website: SINO Television

Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Launched in 1998, Sino Television offers a comprehensive schedule of Chinese language programming including news, sports, entertainment, financial reports, drama, cooking shows, community programs and movies.
Sino Television is available on Time Warner Cable channels 78, 501, 502 and Cablevision 238 in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region.
With the newly acquired television stations by MRBI’s television group, Sino Television is expanding its broadcast coverage to reach Chinese television program audience in the major U.S. cities.

Also: Sino Television Broadcasting

Sino Television is the only 24 hour Chinese language television station in the New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut tri-state region. Available via cable TV, satellite TV, IPTV, and soon broadcast TV.

I think by airing imaginasia.tv they have a better shot of sucess since it is programming that for the most part is in english and has cross over appeal but all Chinese in a market that has a total asian houshold of 20,460 or 1.4% and Asian market # 30 you have to be kidding me. Now if the infomation on the corporate website is correct we now have 2 waste frequencies. Just check out the links and see for yourself.

So the speculation that WAOC is going Chinese? so we will have a Cantoneeese Flair here to TV, how ironic..... :D I can only get 23 out of Akron, I don't consider WAOC in the Cleveland DMA.

So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display (No I don't have new cars either, seldom do I ever even ride in one newer than a 1996) So when is this technology becoming available? reason I haven't upgraded my Reciever in 26 years?

You're describing a feature named RDS (Radio Data System) which has been available from some analog stations for a few years now and this is different than "HD Radio."

"HD Radio" same garbage as normal radio, just wrapped in a shiny new marketing package. If you can swallow the monthly fees for "satellite" radio then DO IT because my experience with XM over D* has been very satisfying. If you cannot afford a monthly radio fee get a MP3 player and load it up with your favorite tunes.

I haven't bought an HD radio yet for a couple reasons. The receiver is too expensive and good sound isn't the same as a good picture. Our ears can only detect so much difference in sound anyways, and it's not worth a couple hundred dollars more to me.

Another thing is that a digital FM radio station sounds like an extremely bad idea to me. It has been mentioned that digital stations only reach 60% of the analog coverage. If I'm driving around town, I don't want to hear a low digital signal going on and off constantly. I'd rather hear a fuzzy signal so I don't miss anything. At least I can listen to distant stations through analog that I wouldn't hear anything through digital.

About satellite radio... I like the stations that XM offers, but I don't like the idea of paying for radio. I have about 8 presets on my AM/FM radio that I can usually find something good on, and that's good enough for me.

So, I really hadn't done research on this, last year when my brother visited he rented a '04 or '05 Cobalt with some radio that actually scrolled the song across the display.

That was probably a satellite radio receiver but it could also have been a receiver that used RDS(Radio Data System). RDS is able to transmit small amounts of digital information using the station's FM carrier. I think it is much more common in Europe than the U.S.. A friend of mine had a Nissan Altima a few years ago that had a factory installed RDS capable radio. I played around with it tuning into various channels in the area and it seemed that almost all of the ones I tuned into supported it and displayed the song title and artist that were playing at that moment. This system has nothing to do with HD Radio and has been around a lot longer.

So the speculation that WAOC is going Chinese? so we will have a Cantoneeese Flair here to TV, how ironic..... :D I can only get 23 out of Akron, I don't consider WoaC in the Cleveland DMA.WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".

Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her :D

What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".

WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".

Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her :D

What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".

Turn it into a real independent station like WUAB used to be.

I got an email back from 90.3 WCPN, they are going to begin broadcasting HD-Radio sometime this year, but have no concrete date.

As for the commercialism on radio, and all the complaining - my opinion is - who cares? If you are unhappy with it, by all means, pay for satellite service, or get an ipod. The radio is a business just like any other, and to say that XM is the end all be all, is simply not true. I used their service for nearly a year - there are plenty of commercials on it. And to be honest, occasionally I would be surprised by the song I heard (wow, this is on the radio?! ) but for the most part it was just the same old stuff. I get way better selection from my ipod (after all, I make the selections!) and I got that for free.

I didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.

If your happy with that commercial crap they feed you on FM, that's up to you. XM is more for the free thinking person.

Why? Do I get to select the individual songs that are played for me? I take offense to the categorization, as FM and XM are identical: they are both media in which someone else makes the choices as to what I hear. If anything, XM is worse in that I'm paying to be force fed. Yes, there are a lot more channels to choose from. But I would still be paying to hear someone else's decision as to what I'm supposed to be hearing.

Personally, I think my iPod is more for the thinking person. I get to choose exactly what I want to hear and when I want to hear it.

Sorry, I'll let you all get back on topic now.

II didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.

It's not gotten to that point at all, and since I'm the only one who mentioned XM as being the best thing going I take a bit of offense about that.

Let me just say this. FM radio when it started out was not like it is today. If you think you know what early FM was and if your under 50, you really don't have a clue.

I listen almost exclusively to Deep Tracks on XM because it plays my type of Rock and it plays songs you don't hear on "Classic Rock" stations. They play new music by the artist that I like. I can't hear my artist anymore because of the absolute takeover by Clear Channel and Infinity of every radio station out there. And the few that arn't owned by those two still play the same songs over and over again. WONE is an example but they too play the same songs daily over and over.

Now as far as commercials go, yes, they have them on the comedy channels and I guess some talk radio, but not the music channels.

As far as I'm concerned XM is radio like I remember, where you can say what you want to say and you arn't limited to a 200 song play list.

You'd have to of been there to know what I'm talking about.

I prefer Sirius. They have a better selection of rare 80s rock and metal on the Buzzsaw and Hair Nation channels than XM has on Boneyard.

Deep tracks is the only reason I kept my sub to XM for nearly a year =]

WOAC's tower is in Brimfield, right of 76. I pass it every day, I usually see cars there so at least they still have people working for them...

And BTW, I have Sirius, and love it. I'd rather spend 100 bucks for a year subscription to get 100 plus (mostly commercial free) music and talk stations on Sirius than coughing up 100+ for an HD radio that has not even gone mainstream yet.