As for the commercialism on radio, and all the complaining - my opinion is - who cares? If you are unhappy with it, by all means, pay for satellite service, or get an ipod. The radio is a business just like any other, and to say that XM is the end all be all, is simply not true. I used their service for nearly a year - there are plenty of commercials on it. And to be honest, occasionally I would be surprised by the song I heard (wow, this is on the radio?! ) but for the most part it was just the same old stuff. I get way better selection from my ipod (after all, I make the selections!) and I got that for free.

I didn't bring up HD-Radio just to start a pissing match. It's just a feature that is pretty commonly available on car audio head units, and was curious about the availability in the Cleveland market.

I'm just wondering when I can get a reciever that actually does more than my 26 year old one, & at a reasonable cost too, the only difference I see is the AM X Band, & this 5 to 1 thing if I can strategicly run wires all over a room.

No pissing match, Cleveland's radio choices really do suck, compared to most cities. It's like pissing contests between the stations to follow the leader. There are so many sub formats that are missed such as an Old School R&B, Disco, Metal (Remember Z-Rock?... ended up on WRNO Shortwave rebroadcast of their FM affiliate out of New Orleans, & WVCC in Linesville PA which I actually could pick up here most of the time).

WOAC Canton, OH is in the Cleveland DMA, in fact their transmitter is actually in Portage County just south of Kent (Brimfield or Suffield). Former owners (before Scripps/SAH) was PAXON. They moved the tower. This was a smart move for now the signal reaches Cuyahoga County better than 23 or 49. I wished they would have moved 23 as well (they did own both stations at the time). The current tower location for 23 & 49 is bad for most of Cuyahoga County. The signal gets blocked northward by high terrain (Richfield - where the "summit" of Summit County is located). This was done on purpose years ago to "protect" WEWS' ABC affilliation since WAKR-TV was also an ABC affillliate, first on 49 then on 23. Once the ABC affilliation went away on these 2 channels there was no more reason to continue the northward "protection".

Anyone with "deep pockets" could buy time on WOAC and make a decent station out of her :D

What would you like to see on WOAC? How about some "classic TV" for the early 60's? I'd love to see reruns of shows like "Route 66".

Strange, although 23's transmitter is farther from me I can pick them up on the Outdoor Antenna, where 67 is also according to the FCC map within my range I don't even get a blip on 67, audio or video ...

Seems that 23 digital will even go further out where 67's digital will actually shave Lake county out again (not like I get it now).

Turn it into an independent?? that would be nice, wishful thinking, I think those days unfortunately are gone, I would really like to pull in the CAT 35/29, seems like some good nostalga on there.! :) I'll have less choice up here after 2009.

That was probably a satellite radio receiver but it could also have been a receiver that used RDS(Radio Data System). RDS is able to transmit small amounts of digital information using the station's FM carrier. I think it is much more common in Europe than the U.S.. A friend of mine had a Nissan Altima a few years ago that had a factory installed RDS capable radio. I played around with it tuning into various channels in the area and it seemed that almost all of the ones I tuned into supported it and displayed the song title and artist that were playing at that moment. This system has nothing to do with HD Radio and has been around a lot longer.

Sounds right, but they are broadcasitng that information , Why just limit this technology to just a car radio? (I find it rather busy myself to be averting my eyes to look a the radio), this same technology is sparcely available on a home reciever, Why??.

I did have a radar detector too that recieves SRS Warning systems that were actually useful, but aren't used much.... a shame.

It's not gotten to that point at all, and since I'm the only one who mentioned XM as being the best thing going I take a bit of offense about that.

Let me just say this. FM radio when it started out was not like it is today. If you think you know what early FM was and if your under 50, you really don't have a clue.

I listen almost exclusively to Deep Tracks on XM because it plays my type of Rock and it plays songs you don't hear on "Classic Rock" stations. They play new music by the artist that I like. I can't hear my artist anymore because of the absolute takeover by Clear Channel and Infinity of every radio station out there. And the few that arn't owned by those two still play the same songs over and over again. WONE is an example but they too play the same songs daily over and over.

You'd have to of been there to know what I'm talking about.

I'm somewhat under 50, so enlighten me. Are we speaking of the old AOR/Progressive rock formats that are all gone?

Speaking of "Gone" just what is top 40 anymore? I don't believe it exists, just like listening for 24 hours & not hearing one song repeting?

I'm somewhat under 50, so enlighten me. Are we speaking of the old AOR/Progressive rock formats that are all gone?

Speaking of "Gone" just what is top 40 anymore? I don't believe it exists, just like listening for 24 hours & not hearing one song repeting?

In the very early days there were no formats. That was the whole point. You could hear anything, I'm talking around 1968. You might hear "Iron Butterfly" followed by "Steppenwolf" for "heavy" rock but it was presented in logical sets that had meaning. You may hear an old blues tune if it fit, followed by a poetry reading. I mean it was totally and absolutely free.

One other thing. The DJ's selected the music so you would have certain DJ's that you would like better then others. I remember one called "The Rabbitt" who was fond of country music quite a bit but would just say the most outrageous things. I recalled he was saying how Mary Turner, the disk jockey who was following him was coming on next. He always called her Ms. Mammaries. One time I remember him saying "Alot of people ask me why I call her Ms. Mammaries. It's because they told me I couldn't say tits on the radio." :)

When Nixon resigned the station I listened too, KMET in Los Angeles (do a google, it's a very famous station) played "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead." Irreverant, hillarious, controversial and most of all INTELLIGENT radio.

Eventually they fell in the AOR format, remained popular for several years but by the time the 80's had come around most all radio was tightly formatted and already on the decline even before corporate take over. I met a big wig back in the 1990's from Clear Channel who happened to be the husband for the female disk jockey Mary Turner I spoke of above. I experessed my concerns about radio to him and basically he told me that I was a "dinosaur" and that people wern't intelligent enough to care what they here anymore on the radio, you just find a format and a few songs and feed it to them over and over again.

That meeting occurred before XM and Sirius.

I'm not presenting this as an argument, I hope that I gave you a feel of what it was like when FM first came about.

There are a lot of possibilities for WOAC. Someone had mentioned that Multicultural Broadcasting may use WOAC to show many English programs, so this introduces many good things for us. Personally, I think that this station can do very well if they aired some older programs and some classic sitcoms that have been taken over by way too many newscasts and court shows. Movies would also be a good idea.

There are a lot of possibilities for WOAC. Someone had mentioned that Multicultural Broadcasting may use WOAC to show many English programs, so this introduces many good things for us. Personally, I think that this station can do very well if they aired some older programs and some classic sitcoms that have been taken over by way too many newscasts and court shows. Movies would also be a good idea.

Speaking of older programs, I just was looking up some of the Old Ultra Man, & Johnny Sokko series they used to show on the independents, too costly now on DVD though. (Shouldn't these be in Public Domain by now?).

& Now Poker All night on NBC? (Better than the infomertials I guess)

I think this kind of relates to the radio thread here, the indy's were swallowed up by the corporate giants & we are now forced fed court, & talk shows.... The bill on TV operation is so high now, created by the monster that we likely will never see this type of programming on unless the LP stations (that I cannot recieve) pick this up.

In the very early days there were no formats. That was the whole point. You could hear anything, I'm talking around 1968. You might hear "Iron Butterfly" followed by "Steppenwolf" for "heavy" rock but it was presented in logical sets that had meaning. You may hear an old blues tune if it fit, followed by a poetry reading. I mean it was totally and absolutely free.

One other thing. The DJ's selected the music so you would have certain DJ's that you would like better then others. I remember one called "The Rabbitt" who was fond of country music quite a bit but would just say the most outrageous things. I recalled he was saying how Mary Turner, the disk jockey who was following him was coming on next. He always called her Ms. Mammaries. One time I remember him saying "Alot of people ask me why I call her Ms. Mammaries. It's because they told me I couldn't say tits on the radio." :) .

I can remember the Early '70's FM if this is what you speak of, (this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages either), later came Automation & something called Color Block Programming that induced many formats into one station at different times of the day.

Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...


Eventually they fell in the AOR format, remained popular for several years but by the time the 80's had come around most all radio was tightly formatted and already on the decline even before corporate take over. I met a big wig back in the 1990's from Clear Channel who happened to be the husband for the female disk jockey Mary Turner I spoke of above. I experessed my concerns about radio to him and basically he told me that I was a "dinosaur" and that people wern't intelligent enough to care what they here anymore on the radio, you just find a format and a few songs and feed it to them over and over again.

I'm not presenting this as an argument, I hope that I gave you a feel of what it was like when FM first came about.

TY for your insight on this hookbill, I just detest everything with a monthly fee, & to see that turn into just about the same crap we get for free anyway. What we can do is just about boycott the sponsors, I guess I'm reseliant to subliminal advertising, but like I did with Howard Stern, I just shut him off when he became too commercialized... but then again I did the same thing with Christmas too! :)

(The Internet should actually be free too, just look at all the ads junk mail cookies we all put up with, slowing down my PC to where it becomes an aggravating experience... I just may pull the plug on it someday)

I can remember the Early '70's FM if this is what you speak of, (this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages either), later came Automation & something called Color Block Programming that induced many formats into one station at different times of the day.

Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...

WHat you are describing exists today in a few markets. It's called the "Jack" format. You get the same "DJ" for 24 hours, an automated system similar to the early days of automation (107.9 in '74 had a system - the robo-dj said the exact same thing every time the same song played, after awhile it got annoying sort of like "Groundhog Day".

Anyway this Jack format has what is called "train wrecks" - playing whatever the server drags up next regardless of what the previous song was. Iron Maden followed by Striesand.

BTW: for those of you who yearn for the old days of FM "progressive" radio you may like WYFM 102.9 out of Sharon PA (actually it's a Youngstown station recently sold). It comes in on my car radio when I'm on the eastern side of the hills here in Parma and Seven Hills. It's been awhile since I listened on a Saturday evening,but the last time I did they were playing "closet classics" - long lost lp tracks that were the mainstay of the old WNCR and WMMS. Songs like Funkadellic's "Maggot Brain", It's a Beautiful Day's "White Bird". If you remember these (I'm shure Hookbill does ) than you'd probably enjoy "Y-FM" (unless the new owners locked the closet). I still hear some of the "deep tracks" from time to time so perhaps the new owners have not messed with the format.

WHat you are describing exists today in a few markets. It's called the "Jack" format. You get the same "DJ" for 24 hours, an automated system similar to the early days of automation (107.9 in '74 had a system - the robo-dj said the exact same thing every time the same song played, after awhile it got annoying sort of like "Groundhog Day".



Well, even Jack has a playlist and the DJ's don't really pick the music, matter of fact I think most of those Jack stations are computerized and don't have disk jockeys.

It seems this is a generation thing. I know that over on the XM forum I see a great deal of people who don't want any disk jockeys and primarily they seem to be either the current generation or generation xers.

I like my music delivered with some thought and intelligence, kind of like make it an art, paint a musical picture. The DJ's of the early 60's and 70's use to be able to do that because they wern't stuck with playlists and even when they started getting playlists they were still flexible enough to come up with some good intelligent stuff. Jack just plays, well Jack. :D

I think we better get back to the subject of TV.

I just checked WOAC's schedule on the EPG of the Panasonic DVD recorder we have here at work (hooked to Cox Cable). In the EPG they still list "Jewelery TV" and "Coin Vault" for most of the day, the only real "programming" is their FCC required "E/I"stuff on Wednesday mornings (4 hours of New Zoo Review starting @ 7:30 AM, followed by "Ask Gilby" @9:30 AM and "Summit Focus" at 10:00 AM). I know this can't be correct, the infomercials I saw were different than the Jewelery TV and Coin Vault they used to show. I hope COX updates this soon - if there is anything interesting on WOAC it should show up here.

Speaking of older programs, I just was looking up some of the Old Ultra Man, & Johnny Sokko series they used to show on the independents, too costly now on DVD though. (Shouldn't these be in Public Domain by now?).

& Now Poker All night on NBC? (Better than the infomertials I guess)

I think this kind of relates to the radio thread here, the indy's were swallowed up by the corporate giants & we are now forced fed court, & talk shows.... The bill on TV operation is so high now, created by the monster that we likely will never see this type of programming on unless the LP stations (that I cannot recieve) pick this up.

Can someone explain why there are so many court shows and trashy talk shows? It seems like the locals had better programming just ten years ago with a variety of programs ranging from different sitcoms, game shows, real talk shows with better topics, and a smaller amount of newscasts. Does today's garbage actually get better ratings? That is why I believe that WOAC has a lot of options.

Does anyone find the stretch WEWS does on some 4:3 content in their newscast annoying?

Does anyone find the stretch WEWS does on some 4:3 content in their newscast annoying?

It's very annoying, and even worse is that they only do it sometimes. Some content is stretched, some is not.

....they were playing "closet classics" - long lost lp tracks that were the mainstay of the old WNCR and WMMS. Boy, are you old! ;) I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.

http://members.cox.net/rijax/WNCRsm.jpg

Boy, are you old! ;) I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.

http://members.cox.net/rijax/WNCRsm.jpg



Jack:
While I was a young teen at that time and more into Top 40 and Talk radio then, It is very cool to hear from you!

Is WOIO still planning on 5.1 sound for the Super Bowl?

Thanks,

Jim

Is WOIO still planning on 5.1 sound for the Super Bowl?

Thanks,

Jim

I haven't heard anything different. I hope they carry it right through to Criminal Minds right after the Super Bowl.

....this all sounds like Ecletic Format College Radio, which I haven't listened to in ages....
That's too bad. You don't know what you're missing. ;)

"Jimmie Wilson", WRUW, Cleveland

It's very annoying, and even worse is that they only do it sometimes. Some content is stretched, some is not.

Worst of all, it's also on their analog feed. So those viewers are not even getting the full picture anymore. I think I'd much rather have those sidebars... I wonder why they do it for some content, but not all

Boy, are you old! ;) I was a DJ on WNCR in 1971, '72, & '73. Nice that someone remembers. It was a wonderfully creative time for music and radio.

I was an Engineer at WIXY-1260, then Chief Engineer at WXEN/WABQ. Later at WCLV. WNCR was better than WMMS (but I knew people at WMMS)

XM did a WIXY retrospective last month. I recorded it but still haven't had a chance to listen to it!

XM did a WIXY retrospective last month. I recorded it but still haven't had a chance to listen to it!
According the the WIXY Tribute Site, XM did a WIXY retrospective before - like over a year ago.

If you can get WJCU-FM 88.7 (John Carroll University radio which used to be known as WUJC until '97) on Tuesday evenings form 6:00 - 9:00 they have a program called "Retro Radio". Hosted by Joe Madigan (a 20-something that sounds like he lived in the 60's - he even has a great knowledge of the rare tracks that never made it up the Hot 100 but did make it on the WIXY-60 charts).
http://www.retroradiotop40.com
Too bad WJCU had to shut off the streaming due to prohibitive royalty payments.

WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!

WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!

Must have been a repeat. My S3 didn't get it, but that's great news!

WOIO was in 5.1 tonight for CSI: NY!

Yep, 5.1 audio is up and running on WOIO. Just watched the 10pm start of CSI:NY with the Kid Rock concert opening. (WOW cable here)

Letterman was a repeat, but was also in 5.1.

Letterman was a repeat, but was also in 5.1.

Cool. Looks like they are on board and what a coincidence, just in time for sweeps (and Superbowl). Who'd of ever guessed that WOIO would come on board before WEWS. Time to start putting pressure on them now.

Can't believe it! Just confirmed that some "dumb" daytime game show is in DD 5.1 at WOIO.

Since I've been "bad mouthing" them for months about being cheap, I'm very pleased to acknowledge they spent the money and appear to have done a clean job with the transition.

Thank you WOIO. You now have the sound to go along with your excellent programming.

Now, if they would only get rid of their sub channels and give the entire bandwidth to their programming again.

...Now, if they would only get rid of their sub channels and give the entire bandwidth to their programming again.
They can't be committing much bandwidth to their weather subchannel... It looks terrible and fuzzy compared to Channel 3's...

Even in the Early '90s I came across an FM Station while traveling in WVA that was alternating Natalie Cole With Warrant & Barbara Striesan, then Ratt... strange mix...


Ratt! Rock on!

Ratt! Rock on!

Party on! :) this was one of the few times I was able to listen to anything other than Country Music on these trips, I used to make the weekend trips to the Greenville/Spartanburg SC with an Ex GF, where they had a Megawatt Country Station there, (which was her favorite), I was able to hear this station up into Bluefield WVA many times & always clearly into Wythville VA along I77 even through the mountains.... musta been throwing some serious power.

That's too bad. You don't know what you're missing. ;)

"Jimmie Wilson", WRUW, Cleveland
"The Show that Never Ends" (Inspired by ELP's Karn Evil #9), classic rock show on WUJC around 1985-86 inthe the late morning afternoons. A Co-Workier in the Shop I worked at always tuned it in.

Again being in this RF hole, there are a few of these stations aren't heard out here.

I called WEWS and left a message with an assistant chief engineer. I said that WOIO is now broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 which makes them the only major network station that isn't. I told him rumor had it that they would be broadcasting in Dolby 5.1 soon but nobody ever thought that the cheapest station in the world, WOIO would beat them to it. I asked him to let me know if he had any time frame on when they would be broadcasting in Dolby 5.1. My phone hasn't rang yet. :rolleyes:

I no sooner had made the post above and walked away to do something else when the phone rang. WEWS called and informed me that they just "now" got approval to purchase the equipment. That means they don't have it already like we had heard previously. He said that they will order it and cut the check and the latest they should be on board with Dolby 5.1 is in about 3 months. :(

Disappointing on one hand, but encouraging to hear that they are planning on getting it.

I no sooner had made the post above and walked away to do something else when the phone rang. WEWS called and informed me that they just "now" got approval to purchase the equipment. That means they don't have it already like we had heard previously. He said that they will order it and cut the check and the latest they should be on board with Dolby 5.1 is in about 3 months. :(

Disappointing on one hand, but encouraging to hear that they are planning on getting it.
I guess it took WOIO's getting on board with DD5.1 to get WEWS off the stick. Too bad it takes so long to set-up. Let's hope it goes smoother than the launch of their HD newscast.

They can't be committing much bandwidth to their weather subchannel... It looks terrible and fuzzy compared to Channel 3's...
WOIO only allocates about 2 - 2.5 Mbps to the weather subchannel, so it doesn't compromise PQ of the main HD channel very much.

WKYC appears to have a variable bit rate and their weather channel usually averages about 4.5Mbps. I've seen it vary between 2Mbps - 6Mbps depending on the action on the HD channel.

I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.

I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.

Who Wants to Be A Millionaire is on right now not in HD but in Dolby 5.1. Did hell really freeze over? :D

I think WOIO 19.1 is having audio issues. Was silent for most of the end of the 6pm news.. and a few minutes into the CBS Evening News, its just playing noise.

I didn't notice that, but I'm not sure they are doing their new DD 5.1 audio correctly.

My AV receiver is showing that they are sending a DD 5.1 signal even when the program is not encoded that way. As a comparison, WKYC and WJW do not send the DD 5.1 signal when the program is just in regular DD 2.0. My receiver does not show a DD 5.1 signal from those networks unless the program is actually in DD 5.1 (Primetime Shows, Jay Leno, Sports, etc).

It is not a big deal at all. Just an observation.

I'll have to check out CSI at 8 p.m. to know for sure if they are passing a real DD 5.1 signal.

Anyone else notice this?

Lots of stations operate that way (sending 5.1 all the time). It's kind of frustrating if they don't do a good stereo to surround conversion, but if done correctly it really isn't a problem. It's even worse if they don't convert at all which prevents your receiver from running a pro-logic type decoding, but I have only heard of one station that operates that way up in Dayton.

Turn it into a real independent station like WUAB used to be.

Ya know what would be a good concept? Rebroadcasting a popular cable station like ESPN or TBS. I know it's possible, and I bet the station would make a killing off it.

I didn't notice that, but I'm not sure they are doing their new DD 5.1 audio correctly.

My AV receiver is showing that they are sending a DD 5.1 signal even when the program is not encoded that way. As a comparison, WKYC and WJW do not send the DD 5.1 signal when the program is just in regular DD 2.0. My receiver does not show a DD 5.1 signal from those networks unless the program is actually in DD 5.1 (Primetime Shows, Jay Leno, Sports, etc).

It is not a big deal at all. Just an observation.

I'll have to check out CSI at 8 p.m. to know for sure if they are passing a real DD 5.1 signal.

Anyone else notice this?

I'm using Windows Media Center--Only laptop speakers. I'm hearing commercials fine.. But CSI is only playing--what i think is the rear channel. Is anyone else having issues? If not, then I need to look a little closer at my decoder settings.

I was an Engineer at WIXY-1260

Wow. I am not worthy... :cool:

I remember Jack "Yo LEEEEEEEEDAH" Armstrong referring to it as the "5000 watt pressure cooker." Was it really 5kw?

Lots of stations operate that way (sending 5.1 all the time). It's kind of frustrating if they don't do a good stereo to surround conversion, but if done correctly it really isn't a problem. It's even worse if they don't convert at all which prevents your receiver from running a pro-logic type decoding, but I have only heard of one station that operates that way up in Dayton.

Ok, so WOIO is not sending their Center Channel. No dialogue in CSI right now, just music and side noises.

Ya know what would be a good concept? Rebroadcasting a popular cable station like ESPN or TBS. I know it's possible, and I bet the station would make a killing off it.

This seems like it would be too good to be true. I can imagine that there is probably some law against it because of that. Of coarse this would take profits from cable companies, and that would be a crime. :D

This seems like it would be too good to be true. I can imagine that there is probably some law against it because of that. Of coarse this would take profits from cable companies, and that would be a crime. :D

Why else do we get Univision and Home Shopping Channel OTA?

They always get all these low-rated channels. I have to wonder what'd happen if they got the bigger cable networks. Perhaps it'd open up a new life for OTA.

Here's a head-scratcher.

I have a Terk TV-55 mounted outside on my chimney.

I'm in Strongsville - I can get all the digital channels except for 19.1.

Freq 2 (chan 3.1) - 94%
Freq 10 (chan 19.1) - 0-20, very erratic
Freq 15 (chan 5.1) - 92%
Freq 28 (chan 43.1) - 68%
Freq 31 (chan 8.1) - 92%
Freq 34 (chan 61.1) - 83%

Antennaweb shows 3.1, 5.1, 19.1, 43.1, 61.1 all to be the same general direction (70-72 degrees) so I'm confused as to the terribly erratic reception for CBS.

An amplifier doesn't help - readings stay the same on all channels. Cable run between antenna and the receiver (HD TiVo) is only about 30 feet with a single splice for a connection plate behind the AV stack.

Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).

Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.

Here's a head-scratcher.

I have a Terk TV-55 mounted outside on my chimney.

I'm in Strongsville - I can get all the digital channels except for 19.1.

Freq 2 (chan 3.1) - 94%
Freq 10 (chan 19.1) - 0-20, very erratic
Freq 15 (chan 5.1) - 92%
Freq 28 (chan 43.1) - 68%
Freq 31 (chan 8.1) - 92%
Freq 34 (chan 61.1) - 83%

Antennaweb shows 3.1, 5.1, 19.1, 43.1, 61.1 all to be the same general direction (70-72 degrees) so I'm confused as to the terribly erratic reception for CBS.

An amplifier doesn't help - readings stay the same on all channels. Cable run between antenna and the receiver (HD TiVo) is only about 30 feet with a single splice for a connection plate behind the AV stack.

Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).

Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.

I'm no expert but everyone says CBS comes in like crap cuz they have a weak signal.

I'm no expert but everyone says CBS comes in like crap cuz they have a weak signal.

Shouldn't have trouble in Strongsville though. It's what, 4 miles from the Parma antenna farm?

I'm using Windows Media Center--Only laptop speakers. I'm hearing commercials fine.. But CSI is only playing--what i think is the rear channel. Is anyone else having issues? If not, then I need to look a little closer at my decoder settings.

Yes, that is exactly what was happening on my OTA setup. WOIO must have fixed it later in the evening because the audio for Letterman was coming through great.

Yes, that is exactly what was happening on my OTA setup. WOIO must have fixed it later in the evening because the audio for Letterman was coming through great.

I checked CSI at 9:58 and rewound it a bit. Sound was fine so I'm assuming the problem was on the first CSI that was shown at 8:00 pm which was a repeat.

Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).

Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.
Doesn't sound like a signal strength issue. A decent unamplified indoor antenna should grab more than enough signal if it's pointed out a window towards Parma.

You may need to reposition your antenna to get WOIO-HD. Sometimes one position doesn't work for all the channels, even if they're in the same general direction and distance, and even if it has worked in the past.

If you don't want to mess with your outdoor antenna try this indoor model as a temporary fix, which is also sold as a Zenith ZHD-TV1 and known as the Silver Sensor. Even though it is a UHF antenna, it reliably pulls in WOIO-DT and WKYC-DT (which is also VHF) in addition to the local UHF stations.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/catOid/-15609/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Also, you may also want to call Sears at the mall. I think that I had purchased one there about a year ago. It's not on their website, but they have products in the store that aren't shown online.

I was watching WKYC Good Company and I just can't pin it...their HD news cameras look good, but the Good Company set looks not so good. Wondering if they just use SD studio cameras on the good company set, yet upconvert and pipe them through their HD control room?

Or are they HD cameras on Good Company, but it's just that the lighting is so bad? Anyone notice significant PQ loss on this program?

Shouldn't have trouble in Strongsville though. It's what, 4 miles from the Parma antenna farm?

I'm in North Royalton (about 1/2 mile north of Hinkley border). WOIO comes in just a strong as any of the others. Don't know make of my antenna; but it's on the back roof (back of house faces north toward Parma antenna farm) and it is one that Cleveland Antenna installed when I got my first HD set around 5 years ago. Because of its location (below roof line on back side of house), it isn't visible from the street. They charged $279 for the antenna and labor.

New subject: I can't believe that we will soon have DD 5.1 on all four of the Cleveland national networks. Only problem is that I recently got a Blu Ray player and the new/advanced audio codecs totally "blow away" DD 5.1.

Here's a head-scratcher.

Aside from 19.1 being the only VHF HD channel here, I don't see any reason why I wouldn't be getting reception on CBS HD. A friend of mine has the exact same antenna and gets CBS fine (N Royalton).

Any ideas? I'd really like to see the Super Bowl in HD this weekend.

How's your picture on the analog 19 station? Sounds like you may have a multi-path issue.

If you notice a lot of "ghosting" on the the analog channel where it looks like a second image offset to the right a little bit, you're probably getting the digital signal in the same way. Problem is that the digital receiver sees the ghost as noise and isn't able to lock into the signal. Usually moving your antenna around a little bit is the only thing that will solve the problem. And by "a little bit," I mean either turning a few degrees or physically altering the location of the antenna if the reflections are bad enough.

I always found it interesting that when displaying signal strength, digital tuners are actually reporting only relative error rates. The lower the meter shows the signal as being, the higher the error rates actually are. So even if you're literally feet away from a broadcast antenna, your signal strength could read as "zero" if you've got a bad enough multi-path problem.

I had this problem with 19 in Medina. I was neverally actually able to fix it, as my antenna was in the attick over my garage. The aluminum siding was just bouncing the signal all over, and no amount of tweaking would bring it in reliably -- at least not without losing all of the other stations.

Getting cable took care of it, though.... ;)

Oh, by the way, WOIO isn't the only VHF channel. WKYC is even lower in the VHF band that OIO is, so I doubt seriously it's a problem with your antenna picking up VHF frequencies.

Anybody notice that this thread, not counting the stickies, is the 13th most-viewed local thread on here? If you take out the locked threads at the top, we're actually the 8th best.

Not bad! Either that, or we just like to talk a lot.... :p

Not bad! Either that, or we just like to talk a lot.... :p

Ya think? :)

That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.

Ya think? :)

That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.


LOL..On a lot of boards, going off topic..(the classic radio posts) gets you some nasty responses..or worse..

I was watching WKYC Good Company and I just can't pin it...their HD news cameras look good, but the Good Company set looks not so good. Wondering if they just use SD studio cameras on the good company set, yet upconvert and pipe them through their HD control room?

Or are they HD cameras on Good Company, but it's just that the lighting is so bad? Anyone notice significant PQ loss on this program?

I've never watched Good Company, but I do notice that WKYC Sunday night sports mini-show after the 11pm news is usually SD stretch. Maybe they use the same studio.

That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.

You can say that again.



That and our tendency to sometimes get way off topic. But that's ok, it's all between friends.

:D

Seriously, though, I couldn't agree more. It's been a number of years since I got an HD set, and the novelty wore off shortly thereafter. But I'm still checking this thread multiple times a day just to see what everybody's up to. I think this truly is the longest I've ever stayed not only on one board but one particular message on that board.

Thanks, everybody.

*sniff* Anybody else feeling like a round of Kumbaya about now? :o

LOL..On a lot of boards, going off topic..(the classic radio posts) gets you some nasty responses..or worse..


Can we stay on topic please!

:D


Glad to see the DD is up and running for the Super Bowl. I've been waiting for WOIO to go DD 5.1. It makes watching football so much better.

Anyone notice from 3-5 this afternoon Adelphia cable TV messed up? I was not home, but wife said that it was all channels. She didn't check to see if it was on the other set or not. Would like to think that it wasn't our big new flat screen giving us problems. We are off the Strongville feed south of Cleveland.

Anyone notice from 3-5 this afternoon Adelphia cable TV messed up? I was not home, but wife said that it was all channels. She didn't check to see if it was on the other set or not. Would like to think that it wasn't our big new flat screen giving us problems. We are off the Strongville feed south of Cleveland.

Yeah, I guess it would be messed up, considering Adelphia no longer exist. :D

I'm in Bainbridge and I receive off the Cleveland Suburbs feed. No problem here. With Time Warner, that is.

Yeah, I guess it would be messed up, considering Adelphia no longer exist. :D

I'm in Bainbridge and I receive off the Cleveland Suburbs feed. No problem here. With Time Warner, that is.

Uh oh, looks like TWC will have to do more advertising and bill inserts to let customers know. :D

I wasn't here 3-5 PM today, but I have two recordings that are fine - one 3:30-4 PM and one starting at 5.

I'm on the TWC/ex-Adelphia branch serving western Summit County, which I think is tied in with Strongsville...

How's your picture on the analog 19 station? Sounds like you may have a multi-path issue.



I have DirecTV for my locals, so I can't tell how the analog channel is. I'll pick up an indoor antenna to test out tomorrow. Maybe I can get reception for the game, anyway.

If it is a multipath issue, it stays - I'm not getting up on my roof in the middle of winter! :eek:

something I've wondered about...
when I listen to a Dolby transmission on the
stereo output of the digital receiver, am I listening
to a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1 or simply 2 of the 5.1
channels?

Ed...

Doesn't sound like a signal strength issue. A decent unamplified indoor antenna should grab more than enough signal if it's pointed out a window towards Parma.

You may need to reposition your antenna to get WOIO-HD. Sometimes one position doesn't work for all the channels, even if they're in the same general direction and distance, and even if it has worked in the past.

If you don't want to mess with your outdoor antenna try this indoor model as a temporary fix, which is also sold as a Zenith ZHD-TV1 and known as the Silver Sensor. Even though it is a UHF antenna, it reliably pulls in WOIO-DT and WKYC-DT (which is also VHF) in addition to the local UHF stations.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Indoor-HDTV-Antenna-PHDTV1/sem/rpsm/oid/158311/catOid/-15609/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Also, you may also want to call Sears at the mall. I think that I had purchased one there about a year ago. It's not on their website, but they have products in the store that aren't shown online.
I can literally see the tower lights for nearly every Cleveland station out my back patio door or side window. I also have a Silver Sensor. The only time I could get a lock on WKYC 3.1 was when the "SS" was aimed sideways and it was unstable. This tells me that the Silver Sensor itself is no good at low band VHF. It was probably getting the WKYC signal through the co-ax somehow.

I ended up grabbing an old pair of rabbit ears for WKYC & WOIO (which fortunately are next-door neighbors here at the "farm") using a VHF/UHF combiner. I put a UHF "hoop" style antenna on the UHF side of the combiner aimed at WUAB looking out my side window (more or less the center of the pack from my POV). I use 2 A/B switches, one side has the above combiner onthe A side, the B side is my rooftop Radio Shack 15-2160 which is aimed at Youngstown for WKBN-DT (it also gets WOAC-DT). The output of that A/B swith is the A side of the second A/B switch. The B side of the second swith is the Silver Sensor which is aimed at Akron for WEAO-DT, WDLI-DT, and WVPX-TV.

It's a mess, but it works.

BTW: I got my SS at Sears at Southland. I had the Radio Shack at Parmatown find the 15-2160 at another store and it was sent to their store for me.

I've never watched Good Company, but I do notice that WKYC Sunday night sports mini-show after the 11pm news is usually SD stretch. Maybe they use the same studio.


This is suprisingly not stretched.

something I've wondered about...
when I listen to a Dolby transmission on the
stereo output of the digital receiver, am I listening
to a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1 or simply 2 of the 5.1
channels?

Ed...

You said you have a digital receiver, I believe your referring to your amp. If it is digital it should have some dolby settings. However if you don't have a 5.1 set up and you have your receiver set to "PCM Stereo" then that is what you receive so I guess the answer would be a mixdown of the Dolby 5.1. You wouldn't only receive two channels, there can be so much you would miss (like people talking in the hall, sirens, music etc.). Do you have a "Virtual Surround" as a selection on your receiver? That works pretty nicely.

You said you have a digital receiver,
I believe your referring to your amp.
Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...
when listening to the stereo output during
a surround sound program, am I listening to a
mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?

Ed...

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.

I would LOVE to see PBS in HD via OTA. Hopefully, both WVIZ and WEAO can work out their issues soon.

To be honest..... I don't really care about WVPX. They really don't offer any programming that I want to watch. Even when they do go digital, I doubt the signal will be any better than what I get now. 23 comes is crystal clear on analog. I really doubt they will be offering any HD programming even when they do go digital.

As for WBNX, I was speaking with someone at work about that station the other day. He said that recently WBNX was putting bumpers in during some commercial breaks about their digital conversion. They said to expect some brief outages while they convert to digital. Now, I haven't seen these bumpers with my own eyes, so I'd take that statement with a grain of salt. I won't believe it till I see it.

The WBNX site still says that they expect to go live with digital in April 2007 for OTA. It would be great if the station was actually ahead of schedule with their upgrade. I actually watch one or two shows on WBNX during Prime Time. Seeing those shows in HD would be a big bonus. What ever happened to them providing the digital signal to Cable and Satellite in the Fall of 2006? I guess that fizzled out.

Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...
when listening to the stereo output during
a surround sound program, am I listening to a
mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?

Ed...

Your listening to stereo. It's like if I activated my TV's sound system. My TV does not do Dolby, it does do a simulated surround however, but the signal it would be working off of would be stereo.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.

I'm not sure WVIZ multicast now. I'll get back to you on that but I could have sworn last time I look that their HD and regular programing was not the same.

Nope... I meant the digital ATSC receiver...
when listening to the stereo output during
a surround sound program, am I listening to a
mixdown or 2 of the 5.1 channels?

Ed...

To use your word, you are listening to a "mixdown". You are getting the full signal; not just 2 channels.

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm tired of waiting for WVPX, WVIZ, and WBNX to go on the air and full-power. Has anyone heard any new news about if any of these plan on getting on soon? I know that WVPX and WVIZ will multicast, and this will give me a lot more options considering I don't want to pay for cable or satellite.

Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.

Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.

What does the DT stand for ( Digital Transmission ?) ?

Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.

I'm pretty sure WVIZ-DT does have at least one multicast channel, the public affairs channel The Ohio Channel. TWC carries it, at least in the ex-Adelphia areas, right around where WKYC Weather Plus is. (181 if I remember right.)

The Ohio Channel is basically the Columbus version of C-SPAN.

I ordered a Samsung LN-S1952W 19" HD LCD television for the bedroom. Hooray, I can watch HD in the bed at night without disturbing my birds.

This is great! Except........

TW is coming out to install an additional outlet and an HD box. And it appears that it will be the SA 8300!!!!!

I told them I didn't want a DVR and they said fine, you won't get charged for it as a DVR but they only use the "combo" boxes now. It cost 10.95 a month for the extra box.

Now does that mean that I COULD use it still as a DVR? Not that I want to but considering they were charging me 8 bucks for the service an 5.00 for the box before.

Anyway it looks like the dreaded SA 8300 will return...for a while. Once the S3 gets MRV and since the price has already come down a bit I'll probably get another S3.

I have DirecTV for my locals, so I can't tell how the analog channel is. I'll pick up an indoor antenna to test out tomorrow. Maybe I can get reception for the game, anyway.

If it is a multipath issue, it stays - I'm not getting up on my roof in the middle of winter! :eek:

In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.

I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.

I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.

In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.

I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.

I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.

Why not get an AB switch and hook up both your antennae that way. It would make your life easier.

What does the DT stand for ( Digital Transmission ?) ?

Digital television. To distinguish the analog station (-TV) from the digital station (-DT)

AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!
Now I know how Charlie Brown must feel trying to get WOIO-D to come in. Super Bowl in SD is a real let down. Maybe the NFL could have it in Mexico next year so I could get it on 61 which comes in at 98 on the meter....come to think of it - throw in some of those hotties from Telemundo & that would work just dandy. :D

-Ward
West Park

I would LOVE to see PBS in HD via OTA. Hopefully, both WVIZ and WEAO can work out their issues soon.

You and me both. I'm not real optimistic about WEAO. I think the major issue with them is money. They sent letters out to their members in December asking for more money so they could meet their budget. In the letter, one of the points they made was that their power bill was going to be much greater than budgeted for the next couple of years because of having to run both the analog and digital transmitters until the new analog shutoff date. Unless pledges increase or some business decides to underwrite them, I would not be surprised if there is NO HD on WEAO-DT until sometime after analog shutoff.

I don't have any insight on WVIZ-DT.

Digital television. To distinguish the analog station (-TV) from the digital station (-DT)

Thanks

In case anyone is following this, I went out to Rat Shack and got a discontinued powered indoor antenna (15-1880) and fiddled with it enough to get the CBS HD channel (signal strength in the low 70s, plenty for a stable picture). I can't get any of the other HD channels (apparently it can't pull in the UHF channels in my basement), but at least I can watch the game tonite.

I'll just swap antenna leads as I need to since I don't watch much of anything on CBS. A bit of a kludge, but it'll work.

I had to point the antenna AWAY from the farm, so that kind of proves the multi-path issue, which was suggested earlier.

Or use a standard cable splitter in reverse to combine the antenna signals into one with everything.

Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?

You and me both. I'm not real optimistic about WEAO. I think the major issue with them is money. They sent letters out to their members in December asking for more money so they could meet their budget. In the letter, one of the points they made was that their power bill was going to be much greater than budgeted for the next couple of years because of having to run both the analog and digital transmitters until the new analog shutoff date. Unless pledges increase or some business decides to underwrite them, I would not be surprised if there is NO HD on WEAO-DT until sometime after analog shutoff.

I don't have any insight on WVIZ-DT.

The issue is not all about money. Initially we had to wait for a federal grant to help pay for a large percentage of the cost. That grant has been approved. When we contacted the manufacturer of our automation software to get the upgrade they required, we were told some interesting news.
Our first generation automation software, server hardware and digital encoder are incompatible with the upgraded automation software. We can't insert anything into the digital HD stream we receive from PBS, or record any of those programs for later use, until we get the new software. Without making those insertions, or having the programs air from our servers, we can't broadcast the PBS-HD programs. We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.
Now if you'd like to become a member and contribute or if you are a member because you received the letter and now want to make an additional gift to keep us on the air, I'm not about to say 'no.' But the money to resolve this situation is not dependant on more members, corporate or foundation underwriting, or government grants. We're stuck because we are an early adopter of untested digital components that are no longer being serviced by their manufacturers. As for the increased utility costs, those are significant, but we budgeted for those.

Don Freeman
Chief Operating Officer
WNEO/WEAO

I've heard rumours they are upgrading (cameras, switcher, router etc.) as we speak and could be finished and on the air with HD newscasts by end of February. Anyone know more?

It's amazing to me how the manufacturers treat the big guys the same as us little guy's-----------we are sorry but you have to buy all new stuff even though it is only 1 year old because we don't service that old stuff anymore. So I guess that old $30,000.00 mpeg2 encoder is only worth $500.00 now.

JJK

Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?

I wanted to record the Superbowl using the OTA HD tuner card in my HTPC. I initially tuned to 19-1 in Cleveland and was getting occasional dropouts during the pregame so I switched over to 27-1 and it was solid as a rock. I noticed no problems and was getting a strong solid signal. I'm using a small UHF only antenna on the chimney and I'm in Springfield Township just SE of Akron. On another note I was glad I was able to tune in 21-1 earlier in the day for the PGA golf tournament. 3-1 was constantly using their analog upconvert to display the school closings so they actually showed very little of the tournament in HD. It is soooo nice to have alternatives.

Unless I'm mistaking what you mean by "multicast" and I don't think I am, the channel lineup for WVIZ-DT and WVIZ consist of different programming. The line up isn't even close.
WVIZ does multicast. Initially they did not include the main analog program inthe digital stream, but they recently made a change and now do carry the main SD stream.

Here is the line-up:

25.1 = PBS HD
25.2 = The Ohio Channel
25.3 = WVIZ SD (they dumped an audio only feed at 25.9 "CRRS" Cleveland Radio Relay Service for the blind)


WEAO/WNEO OTOH has this line-up
49.1 = "Create"
49.2 = WEAO/WNEO SD
49.3 = The Ohio Channel

Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?
Not here. 27.1 was solid as a rock using my rooftop mounted antenna aimed at Youngstown.

The issue is not all about money. Initially we had to wait for a federal grant to help pay for a large percentage of the cost. That grant has been approved. When we contacted the manufacturer of our automation software to get the upgrade they required, we were told some interesting news.
Our first generation automation software, server hardware and digital encoder are incompatible with the upgraded automation software. We can't insert anything into the digital HD stream we receive from PBS, or record any of those programs for later use, until we get the new software. Without making those insertions, or having the programs air from our servers, we can't broadcast the PBS-HD programs. We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.
Now if you'd like to become a member and contribute or if you are a member because you received the letter and now want to make an additional gift to keep us on the air, I'm not about to say 'no.' But the money to resolve this situation is not dependant on more members, corporate or foundation underwriting, or government grants. We're stuck because we are an early adopter of untested digital components that are no longer being serviced by their manufacturers. As for the increased utility costs, those are significant, but we budgeted for those.

Don Freeman
Chief Operating Officer
WNEO/WEAO

Thanks for the update. I know a lot of us here are anxious to see the end result!

Does anyone know of an online store, or anywhere for that matter, where I can get a remote for my Zenith HDV420 STB tuner at the cheapest price? My brother decided to grab it and break it into pieces :mad: . The cheapest I can find is for around $40, but I don't know if I can get it any cheaper than that. Please Help!!

Does anyone know of an online store, or anywhere for that matter, where I can get a remote for my Zenith HDV420 STB tuner at the cheapest price? My brother decided to grab it and break it into pieces :mad: . The cheapest I can find is for around $40, but I don't know if I can get it any cheaper than that. Please Help!!

Can't you just get the One For All for about 15.00 and program it for your STB?

Can't you just get the One For All for about 15.00 and program it for your STB?

Can I get a universal remote for the HDV420? Would I still have all the same options? I like the fact that the actual remote has a one-touch signal indicator button.

We'll be shopping at the NAB show in April, money in hand, and fully expect to have our decisions made, equipment ordered and installed by the beginning of our next fiscal year, July 1, 2007.

Don Freeman
Chief Operating Officer
WNEO/WEAO

Don, thanks for the reply. It seems like you were at about this point at this time last year, and when I received the letter in December, with the part about the expense of running two transmitters (esp high in the UHF band), I was just trying to put two and two together. But I know the federal grant process can take longer than expected.

I also thought that I had read somewhere that there was a new fee for the PBS HD programming that affiliates had to pay if they wanted to air these programs, and many stations were struggling to pay these fees, and thus pulling the HD programming off the air.

Anyway, good news and I look forward to HD on PBS 45/49 sometime this summer!

Anyone else experiencing problems with getting Channel 27-1 out of Youngstown OTA the last few days ? I live in North Canton and it is usually the strongest OTA signal I receive using an internal rabbit ears and ATSC tuner. Had a few drops during the Superbowl and Criminal Minds wth signal strength at around 70-75 when it is usually 85-90. Any chance the cold air or high winds could be interfering with the signal ?

I was having problems with WOIO-DT on Saturday while watching the OSU-Mich St game, so I tried WKBN-DT, but I could not get a solid lock. I'm not sure, but I think the high winds may have been affecting my reception of WOIO-DT (and maybe WKBN-DT also) - it seems like whenever the wind settled down a bit, the signal steadied out. I was getting pixellation, occasional freezing of the picture and audio dropouts on WOIO-DT. Watchable, but annoying. The Dolby Digital was worthless - constantly dropping out.

WKBN-DT varies for me, sometimes I can get a solid lockable signal and sometimes not. It has always been harder for me to get WKBN-DT than WFMJ-DT.

As for WOIO-DT, I seem to be suffering from multipath problems over the past couple of months with them. The signal Strength (really error rate) meter bounces up and down a lot. Anybody else notice this from WOIO-DT more lately?

It's amazing to me how the manufacturers treat the big guys the same as us little guy's-----------we are sorry but you have to buy all new stuff even though it is only 1 year old because we don't service that old stuff anymore. So I guess that old $30,000.00 mpeg2 encoder is only worth $500.00 now.

JJK

Unfortunately, the encoder is an Agilevision and the cost was approx. $350,000 in 2003.

I’d like to commend W “We can’t” C Channel 3 for their stupendous iAlert (idiot alert) work last night. Nothing like taking nice HDTV content and destroying it by running an unnecessary crawl of every school that is closed even in Tuscrawas County. Heaven forbid you run that info during your news cast later on or on your morning show.

The classic was the shrinking of the picture for the crawl then some Einstein decided to add a Winter Cold Weather advisory above that shrinking the picture to almost half height of my 42” plasma.

Well, it worked. I changed the channel to one that allowed for a full screen. Thank God Fox 8 had the smarts not to screw with 24 ;-) Amazingly, they announced the closings during their 10:00 news.

I’d like to commend W “We can’t” C Channel 3 for their stupendous iAlert (idiot alert) work last night. Nothing like taking nice HDTV content and destroying it by running an unnecessary crawl of every school that is closed even in Tuscrawas County. Heaven forbid you run that info during your news cast later on or on your morning show.

The classic was the shrinking of the picture for the crawl then some Einstein decided to add a Winter Cold Weather advisory above that shrinking the picture to almost half height of my 42” plasma.

Well, it worked. I changed the channel to one that allowed for a full screen. Thank God Fox 8 had the smarts not to screw with 24 ;-) Amazingly, they announced the closings during their 10:00 news.

Yeah, that was really annoying....... I switched to CH 21 to watch Heroes in HD so I didn't have to put up with the iAlert on CH 3.

WFMJ was smart enough to run their school closings during the commercial breaks!

Yeah, that was really annoying....... I switched to CH 21 to watch Heroes in HD so I didn't have to put up with the iAlert on CH 3.

WFMJ was smart enough to run their school closings during the commercial breaks!
Letterman was SD on WOIO for the same reason. Good thing I had my trusty Youngstown antenna! WKBN-DT in HD and crawl free!

The "big city" stations should learn a thing or two from the smaller market stations.

Hats off to both WFMJ & WKBN!

To be fair the "big city" stations have many more counties to serve than the Youngstown stations, however that still does not excuse them for wacking their HD programming for a list that:
a. could be had on the internet
b. could be had by the concerned parties calling up their local school district if a. is not an option.

95% of the viewers could care less if a certain school miles away is closed. The "old school" of broadcasting thought is that viewers would watch their annoying crawls wating, sometimes in vain, to see "their school" closed. It would be easier (shorter list) to list which school is still open!

School closings on TV is very competitive between the stations for some reason...

I wanted to record the Superbowl using the OTA HD tuner card in my HTPC. I initially tuned to 19-1 in Cleveland and was getting occasional dropouts during the pregame so I switched over to 27-1 and it was solid as a rock. I noticed no problems and was getting a strong solid signal. I'm using a small UHF only antenna on the chimney and I'm in Springfield Township just SE of Akron. On another note I was glad I was able to tune in 21-1 earlier in the day for the PGA golf tournament. 3-1 was constantly using their analog upconvert to display the school closings so they actually showed very little of the tournament in HD. It is soooo nice to have alternatives.

Lucky you! I can't lock 21.1 WFMJ digital at my house near Krumroy Road and 241 at all.

We sure could use a new button on the remote-----"crawl shutoff".

JJK

I too will add to the disgust of whichever Cleveland locals took off the HD content to display their crappy "school closing banner". I was particularly annoyed that Jay Leno wasn't in HD. Cleveland stations have a tendency to exagerrate stupid topics like weather and school closings. ... How about some real news!!!

I enjoy watching Studio 60 and as soon as I saw the dreaded idiot crawl I shut it off and now will download the show from iTunes to watch uncluttered on my ipod! From 60 inches to 3 I would prefer to watch it in mousefartvision than destroyed with amazingly useless closings. What a perfect use for the weather sub channel systems!

I enjoy watching Studio 60


Me too, but it's going into hiatus in March.

http://www.tbo.com/life/MGB945IHTXE.html

Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.

Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.
Someone told me that Marc's at Southland was selling "HD Ready" flat screens for ~$400.

Monster "Video2" cables at Marc's Drug stores. 1.5 meter & 2 meter with "F" connectors or RCA plugs about $6.00.

Mine also has the Video2 cables as well as the Audio cables.

Can I get a universal remote for the HDV420? Would I still have all the same options? I like the fact that the actual remote has a one-touch signal indicator button.

Check out this site:

http://www.remotecentral.com/

You should be able to find something to do the job.

What a perfect use for the weather sub channel systems!

Ditto.

Maybe we won't be having this conversation in two years, when everybody's digital?

Nah, probably not. I mean, as someone else said, school closings are TV news competition...

I've heard rumours they are upgrading (cameras, switcher, router etc.) as we speak and could be finished and on the air with HD newscasts by end of February. Anyone know more?

From http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2006/12/some-other-topics-and-some-updates.html:


Not only that, the scuttlebutt is - and are you sitting down, folks? - that Raycom Media CBS/MyNetworkTV combo WOIO/19-WUAB/43's "19 Action News" is also getting ready for an HDTV local news conversion. The rumor mill says that was actually also supposed to be done next month, but will be delayed...so WEWS would presumably beat WOIO to the HD punch.


This was written before WEWS went live with their HD newscast.

I just put a 19" HDTV in my bedroom. I bought a Samsung S1952W and ordered an additional outlet from TW.

I didn't want a DVR so they bring me out a Scientific Atlanta Explerer 3250 box. I'm telling the tech how I want it set up with my DVD player and he kept asking why, and I'd explain. When he was done he "proudly" showed me the picture and I asked him to redo guide set up as I wanted 480p, 720p (that's native), and 1080i. He said, no you can't do that with this box you can only do that with the SA 8300. I said, "really!" and turned off the box, pressed the "guide" and "info" key at the same time, and by golly if a set up wizard didn't pop up.

I continued guide set up and the tech was "Oh, I didn't know these were capable of that," and "well, I'm not much into this HD stuff. I like cars." :rolleyes:

After he left I took all of his cables off as they were all way to long and used my cables. I also had to redo the hook up to the DVR as I wanted it to be able not onlyt to receive analog channels, I wanted it to receive the digital off the box via line one. I told him that but I guess he didn't understand that either. :rolleyes:

My techs are comeing out of the Concord office now, not the Macedonia office. I was told that I would probably see a decrease in quality and so far in two visits that has been true.

One last thing: My S3 is now getting all channels. I was missing 3 channels and no volume on one and I got a name and eventually a number of someone who woks in head end and is the go to person for cable cards. It took her a while but she worked on it daily and also was contacted by a TiVo engineer due to my documenting the problem in the TiVo forum. The problem was on Time Warners side and she fixed everything. :)

Golly Hook! That is one scary story. Makes you feel totally amazed when you find somebody competent doing their job, someone who can actually do it better than you and can (gasp) add some value? I know, I live in a dream world.

You should be on the TW payroll Hook!

You should train all their techs.

The Concord office sends techs to Twinsburg :eek: By the time they arrive it's a wonder they still know their name :p

That decision had to me made by someone unfamilliar with the territory. You'd think they would have used a centralized office rather than one on the farthest end of the system.

Being "TV station dependent" I guess is easier than being "Cable dependent" or "Satellite dependent" and a bit cheaper but then I guess you become "channel selection deprived".

JJK

Trust me, that type of management is running rampant throughout many tech based companies, specifically wireless carriers who will remain nameless :)

Now back to HDTV

You should be on the TW payroll Hook!

You should train all their techs.



If they would allow me to work out of the home that would be great!

Working with Jo Anne about the missing channel problems we spoke with several people who worked in different areas of TW. She spoke of me as a "tech savay" customer, and boy did my head swell. The truth is if I'm "tech savay" I don't hold a candle to most of you guys. I learn most of what I know from you and others in this forum.

Scrolling through my SA8300HD guide today, I noticed WOW has a whole bunch of channel names ending in "OD" that are labeled "Testing - coming soon". I assume they're getting ready to launch a bunch of on-demand channels. Cartoon Network on-demand, Starz on-demand, etc.

Being stuck in Athens 8 months per year while I'm in college, I have to say I miss the Cleveland stations. Of course, the social scene around here more than cancels out. I hate the Columbus and West Virginia locals around here, they feel so low rent. WBNS is the only one that feels "legit."

What really pisses me off is that OU uses its own proprietary cable system based off of Time Warner Athens, but they don't have any of the TWC digital stations, so my QAM tuner can't pick up the HD. Good luck with an antenna too.

Can't wait to get off campus and get real TWC.

Just a general reply.

Scrolling through my SA8300HD guide today, I noticed WOW has a whole bunch of channel names ending in "OD" that are labeled "Testing - coming soon". I assume they're getting ready to launch a bunch of on-demand channels. Cartoon Network on-demand, Starz on-demand, etc.

Were they in the 800s?

They're at it again. The locals are showing the school-closing bar at the bottom of the screen. I'm wondering why they can't show HD content whenever their school closing or weather graphics are on the screen. It's annoying.

Fox is the only one that has it right. NBC shrinks down the picture not distorting the aspect. CBS is a disaster.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was snowin.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was rainin.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me the wind was blowin.
When the bus didn't show up there wasn't any school. Done deal. Then I went outside
and played in the snow all day.
JJK

Fox is the only one that has it right. NBC shrinks down the picture not distorting the aspect. CBS is a disaster.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was snowin.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me it was rainin.
Didn't need no weatherman in 1950 to tell me the wind was blowin.
When the bus didn't show up there wasn't any school. Done deal. Then I went outside
and played in the snow all day.
JJK

I grew up in Southern California. We never got a snow day. :(

When I was 16 however I lived in Lowell MA. That was 1969. I know we got two snow days that was after a Noreaster came by and dumped 15". Two inches of snow? That didn't stop anything.

I can't remember how I found out there was no school. I probably walked up there and found out it was closed.

The news is that WOIO's newscast is going to HD very soon... probably by the end of the month is we're lucky. NBC Nightly News will also be going HD sometime in March. It's about time a national newscast did, considering we already have 3 locals in HD.

The news is that WOIO's newscast is going to HD very soon... probably by the end of the month is we're lucky. NBC Nightly News will also be going HD sometime in March. It's about time a national newscast did, considering we already have 3 locals in HD.

Don't forget that Bonanza was broadcast in color in the very early 60's and by the mid 60's most shows were in color, but CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite didn't go to color until the late 60's.

When WOIO hops on the HD wagon, will Cleveland be the first city to be all HD?

Were they in the 800s?

No, they were scattered across the 300's and 400's. Also Channel 1 now is labeled "TVOD"

I came home the other night and noticed all my channel changing on 1-99 was very slow and I suspected WOW might be experimenting with digital simulcast on the basic (analog) channels? I thought the PQ on the 1-99 channels was better, but maybe I was just seeing things. :D

I unplugged and replugged the box and the channel changing was fast again and PQ on 1-99 seemed like it's always been (kinda analog looking crappy)

When WOIO hops on the HD wagon, will Cleveland be the first city to be all HD?

Yes, but technically WMFD in Mansfield is also in the Cleveland DMA and without an HD newscast. The Cleveland market seems really competitive.

Yes, but technically WMFD in Mansfield is also in the Cleveland DMA and without an HD newscast. The Cleveland market seems really competitive.

Don't forget our local Univision affiliate. I have no idea if they do local news, however...

I came home the other night and noticed all my channel changing on 1-99 was very slow and I suspected WOW might be experimenting with digital simulcast on the basic (analog) channels? I thought the PQ on the 1-99 channels was better, but maybe I was just seeing things. :D

If you notice this again, remove the RF input from the box for a moment. If the picture freezes then disappears, you're looking at a digital channel. If it just goes to black or snow instantly, it's in analog modulation.

Am waiting now for a Dish Tech to arrive to do my 622 HD install.(scheduled between 12-5). Brought home a JVC 30-inch HDTV This morning. After figuring out the setup, I scanned the channels. I got 6 hits without an antenna, including WDLI-17 and WNEO-45..signals but no lock on 23, 67 and 31 (WJW-digital?) and channel 60 for my TV2 Dish 522 tuner setup. The HDTV is in our bedroom and will become tuner1 on the 622. My Panasonic 35" in the living room will be TV2..

Edit:Putting a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna on tne back of the JVC, I got anywhere from 20-28 "signals" including WDLI-17 and all the TBN digitals, 45/49 and the digital channels there..Amazingly when I got the antenna turned a certain way, I got WKBN-DT 27-1 and 2 (WYFX) perfectly but not the analog. The Dish Tech is here now..Can't wait to see what the OTA tuner for the 622 does.

The Yo Yo's at WKYC forgot to flip the HD switch on Earl last night until the second act.

WKYC are up to their old tricks again. Stretched SD.
JJK

The Yo Yo's at WKYC forgot to flip the HD switch on Earl last night until the second act.

Not to mention one of the funniest episodes of The Office was ruined because they kept switching between Letterbox SD and HD last night. Very annoying! There wasn't even any scrolling school closing tickers. What is their problem? Why is this so difficult? :mad:

Not to mention one of the funniest episodes of The Office was ruined because they kept switching between Letterbox SD and HD last night. Very annoying! There wasn't even any scrolling school closing tickers. What is their problem? Why is this so difficult? :mad:

Actually, when I noticed that on WKYC, I switched over to WFMJ out of Youngstown. The same thing was happening over there. Perhaps this was an issue with the feed from NBC.

Actually, when I noticed that on WKYC, I switched over to WFMJ out of Youngstown. The same thing was happening over there. Perhaps this was an issue with the feed from NBC.

Geez, I must have been so into the show I didn't notice the HD/SD switching. Our technical people are really good about enabling the HD. Unfortunately I even deleted it from my PVR so i can't go back and look. Seriously, I don't remember seeing SD switching.

If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.

Geez, I must have been so into the show I didn't notice the HD/SD switching. Our technical people are really good about enabling the HD. Unfortunately I even deleted it from my PVR so i can't go back and look. Seriously, I don't remember seeing SD switching.

If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.


I was watching 21-1 OTA last night in North Canton and the HD/SD switching happened several times. It was very obvious and distracting.

I was watching 21-1 OTA last night in North Canton and the HD/SD switching happened several times. It was very obvious and distracting.

I must have been brain dead to not notice it, sorry. At any rate it wasn't us.

Just checked in The Office Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=730209) and people from all over were having the same problem. Looks like it's not a local issue, instead NBC dropped the ball.

Well Wkyc ruined Hereos with inane school closings last week and Wews did the same with Lost. At least Fox-8 has the sense to let these HD shows play in thier full glory and run the closings during the news. Since when has it become such a big deal for these stations to run continuos maps. scrolls, closings? In fact it would be easier and quicker show what is NOT closed.

I noticed that Channel 19 did something interesting. The HD channel had no school closings, while the analog channel had the closings. I noticed this while flipping channels the other evening.

anyone with time warner cable in Ohio have the New navaigator software for their setop boxes? after much back and forth with the wife, we have time warner coming out monday to run a new line after this morning waking up to find a leaky celiling right below the big 55lb sat. dish Directv uses, so I am curious if it is just Time warner employess getting the new software, or is everyone getting it?


also by the way like tv21chief I was way into earl and office to notice it was getting switched around, I did a one point notice a switch but for the most part I was laughing to hard to notice much :)

I noticed that Channel 19 did something interesting. The HD channel had no school closings, while the analog channel had the closings. I noticed this while flipping channels the other evening.


I saw that too!

When Channel 5 first went HD I noticed that chief meteoroligist, Mark Johnson had more grey in his hair then I had seen before. He even made mention about it himself, "the grey hair really shows in HD."

Well, he must have got a bottle of "Just for Men" because he doesn't have a grey hair in his head anymore. :)

I just notice this today, so I'm not sure when he did it but I know what I saw! :)

If there is an HD problem NBC will revert to upconverted SD on their own.

Back in the old days of network tv, when they'd run a 35mm film directly from a film chain, they'd also run a crummy 16mm duplicate called a protection print. Once in a great while I'd be watching a film on TV when something would go wrong, then the resolution and color gamut would suddenly drop and the sound would get a little muffled. They switched to the 16mm backup copy. Thus would go on until someone fixed the problem with the 35mm print, then -POOF!- the picture quality would go back to normal. The operative phrase at the control room when this would happen was "Take the protection print!"

So I wonder if something similar happened with the HD copy of The Office that night, and they wound up switching to an SD copy from a different server or tape machine.

Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?
JJK

Question for Time Warner Cable Customers (Akron-Canton, Ohio)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background:I am very new to Digital/HDTV. .As part of my recent Dish-HD 622Vip upgrade, I bought a JVC 30" I'Art Pro High Definition TV (AV-30W777)..Had been playing around with various indoor antennas with mixed success..The 622's OTA input doesnt work well for me, but I am far away from the towers of all local stations except Canton/Akron.

The Dish installer put the 622 in our bedroom, where there was an extra coax cable from Time Warner just hanging from the wall..Just for kicks I thought I would put it on the JVC antenna input. As mentioned in my previous post, I had gotten anywhere from 10 to 28 signals on the indoor antennas I'd tried. With the TWC Line I got 12 signals from the "Air" setting in the tuner menus. But when I switched to "Cable" setting I got over 400 signals! What I actually saw was varied versions of Cleveland Digital locals 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43..WIVM-LP 52 in Canton, Sportstime Ohio, some cable channels and even WYFX 17/62 Fox in Youngstown which as far as I know TWC Akron/Canton does'nt even carry officially.

When tuning through the channels I didnt get many clear pictures until I got to channels 74-79..The end of TWC basic service. I do get Roadrunner and Digital Phone so I know some analog channels can be received if a cable is plugged in to a regular set..the digitals begin on channel 80-1..some more on 94-1 through 7...Others on I think 108-1 and beyond. The last channel was 123-5. There were also some TWC ad channels as well..I realize there is "Cable Card" technology out there now..Wondering if that has anthing to do with this. This probably seems quite naive to ask but I was just overwhelmed by the number of stations there are and wondering if this is normal with a Digital/HDTV set..especially when I dont subscribe to cable or have a "Cable Box".

Edit:Is there anyone that has a list of TWC Akron-Canton system channels that are on 80-1 and above?(non cable box)
__________________

Question for Time Warner Cable Customers (Akron-Canton, Ohio)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background:I am very new to Digital/HDTV. .As part of my recent Dish-HD 622Vip upgrade, I bought a JVC 30" I'Art Pro High Definition TV (AV-30W777)..Had been playing around with various indoor antennas with mixed success..The 622's OTA input doesnt work well for me, but I am far away from the towers of all local stations except Canton/Akron.

The Dish installer put the 622 in our bedroom, where there was an extra coax cable from Time Warner just hanging from the wall..Just for kicks I thought I would put it on the JVC antenna input. As mentioned in my previous post, I had gotten anywhere from 10 to 28 signals on the indoor antennas I'd tried. With the TWC Line I got 12 signals from the "Air" setting in the tuner menus. But when I switched to "Cable" setting I got over 400 signals! What I actually saw was varied versions of Cleveland Digital locals 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43..WIVM-LP 52 in Canton, Sportstime Ohio, some cable channels and even WYFX 17/62 Fox in Youngstown which as far as I know TWC Akron/Canton does'nt even carry officially.

When tuning through the channels I didnt get many clear pictures until I got to channels 74-79..The end of TWC basic service. I do get Roadrunner and Digital Phone so I know some analog channels can be received if a cable is plugged in to a regular set..the digitals begin on channel 80-1..some more on 94-1 through 7...Others on I think 108-1 and beyond. The last channel was 123-5. There were also some TWC ad channels as well..I realize there is "Cable Card" technology out there now..Wondering if that has anthing to do with this. This probably seems quite naive to ask but I was just overwhelmed by the number of stations there are and wondering if this is normal with a Digital/HDTV set..especially when I dont subscribe to cable or have a "Cable Box".

Edit:Is there anyone that has a list of TWC Akron-Canton system channels that are on 80-1 and above?(non cable box)
__________________


Well, I don't have a list but I should let you know that TWC is a bit more aggressive then old Adelphia on cable theft, and while you didn't do this intentionally that still doesn't mean they won't come after you if they find out.

Am waiting now for a Dish Tech to arrive to do my 622 HD install.(scheduled between 12-5). Brought home a JVC 30-inch HDTV This morning. After figuring out the setup, I scanned the channels. I got 6 hits without an antenna, including WDLI-17 and WNEO-45..signals but no lock on 23, 67 and 31 (WJW-digital?) and channel 60 for my TV2 Dish 522 tuner setup. The HDTV is in our bedroom and will become tuner1 on the 622. My Panasonic 35" in the living room will be TV2..

Edit:Putting a Philips MANT510 indoor antenna on tne back of the JVC, I got anywhere from 20-28 "signals" including WDLI-17 and all the TBN digitals, 45/49 and the digital channels there..Amazingly when I got the antenna turned a certain way, I got WKBN-DT 27-1 and 2 (WYFX) perfectly but not the analog. The Dish Tech is here now..Can't wait to see what the OTA tuner for the 622 does.
Ch 23 is not on the air in digital (neither is 55). You should have gotten 67 (they are digital on 47). If you can reaim your antenna you might be able to get WOAC 67 (but for now there is nothing on but Guthy-Ranker paid programs). Ch 8 is indeed on 31 in digital. I'm not sure how much power they are pushing on 31 (living .8 of a mile from WJW my signal strength pegs at 125 on my E* 921).

I also get WKBN-DT nearly perfectly with an average of 103 signal strength usning an outdoor antenna. That same antenna gives me a snowy, but watchable analog WKBN 21 - but no digital! (go figure).

Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?
JJK
The difference was there, if only subtle on most TV's of the day. The change in audio quality was more noticeable once the networks improved the way the signals were distributed to the affilliates. The original terrestrial microwave links had a noticabley narrow bandwidth for audio. In the mid to late 70's they must have gone to satellite, for there was a big improvement in the audio. Anyone remeber the theme song for ABC's Wide World of Sports? It had that narrow bandwidth quality for years after the change. The recording they used must have been fed over the old narrow bandwidth system then reused for many years without updating. It was like hearing an AM radio signal rebroadcast over an FM station.

Well, I don't have a list but I should let you know that TWC is a bit more aggressive then old Adelphia on cable theft, and while you didn't do this intentionally that still doesn't mean they won't come after you if they find out.


I still have Digital Phone and Roadrunner with TWC. I don't know if I will keep this connection up or not. I am sure they have ways of finding out if someone shouldnt have certain services. And They will turn it off if necessary, which wouldnt be a problem at all..

Wondering how back in the old days of tv you could tell the difference between 35mm and 16 mm and even super 8?
JJK

It was pretty obvious. All of a sudden there'd be film weave and a dramatic drop in picture resolution and dynamic range.

The difference was there, if only subtle on most TV's of the day. The change in audio quality was more noticeable once the networks improved the way the signals were distributed to the affilliates. The original terrestrial microwave links had a noticabley narrow bandwidth for audio. In the mid to late 70's they must have gone to satellite, for there was a big improvement in the audio. Anyone remeber the theme song for ABC's Wide World of Sports? It had that narrow bandwidth quality for years after the change. The recording they used must have been fed over the old narrow bandwidth system then reused for many years without updating. It was like hearing an AM radio signal rebroadcast over an FM station.

I remember watching ABC one day during the narrow-bandwidth days. Their "movie of the week" opening came on. I was watching the audio on a VU meter without listening to it, and the VU meter stood absolutely still during the opening. I thought I had a bad cable and was seeing AC hum but it was program audio! The audio was so incredibly compressed that there was virtually ZERO dynamic range! I was absolutely astounded. Apparently one of the reasons for doing this (besides making it sound "louder" and more commanding) was to keep it well above the noise floor of the terrestrial microwave hops.

Yes, they've long since abandoned terrestrial microwave and gone to satellite and fiber transmission, thank goodness.

Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...

Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...
To a lesser extent FOX 8 also has a noticable difference in audio level between HD and SD.

Some of the audio level variations (OTA) are as much as 15-20db even with the auto sound level thing activated on the Sony LCD. The Tube is always about 15 db down in level and WKYC the same way except for commercials then the level jumps up. All of the analog channels are rock solid level wise. All of the others fluctuate depending on the full moon I guess.

Some of the audio level variations (OTA) are as much as 15-20db even with the auto sound level thing activated on the Sony LCD. The Tube is always about 15 db down in level and WKYC the same way except for commercials then the level jumps up. All of the analog channels are rock solid level wise. All of the others fluctuate depending on the full moon I guess.

I believe you guys but how do you know this? I mean on my HTS if I'm at 60 db and a loud commercial comes on I have no idea how much louder, it still says 60db on the stereo.

You have decibel meters is you house????

Good question! I'm curious now and I do have an SLP meter. I'm going to test to see what the difference is.

Here's an interesting story posted on Ohio Media Watch... It looks like 19 action news is trying to find some ratings. If you haven't heard, the weather forcaster, Jon Loufman, was doing a live interview of the weather, and a fat streaker was running around. It was obviously staged. Check out the video for yourself...

http://www.roverradio.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1550&Itemid=1

It turned out to be a DJ from WXRK, which just happens to have its studios near where Loufman was.

I haven't seen this mentioned on here - WOIO-DT is not passing DD.5.1. I'm currently watching the OSU-Minnesota game and I'm only getting Dolby PL on WOIO-DT, while I can get DD5.1 from WKBN-DT. Someone mentioned on OMW that they noticed that WOIO-DT was not passing DD5.1 on Wed night.

Is their new encoder broken already? Or did they get a 2nd-hand one from a garage sale? :D

I haven't seen this mentioned on here - WOIO-DT is not passing DD.5.1. I'm currently watching the OSU-Minnesota game and I'm only getting Dolby PL on WOIO-DT, while I can get DD5.1 from WKBN-DT. Someone mentioned on OMW that they noticed that WOIO-DT was not passing DD5.1 on Wed night.

Is their new encoder broken already? Or did they get a 2nd-hand one from a garage sale? :D

I can tell you they were broadcasting DD 5.1 as of Friday evening. I just took a look and currently they have golf and it is in HD and no Dolby 5.1. Bummer, hope they get it running by tonight.

hookbill:
I have a Radio Shack SPL meter which is about 40 bucks if I remember right. I use it for checking the 7.1 setup with the Avia test disc.

JJK

Wow, I'm really p.o'd about this. I wonder why they left it on all the time and if that caused something to break. I mean this is ratings time you would think they would want everything working. I have a few CBS shows recording tonight and I was really enjoying their programming in DD 5.1. I think I watch CBS more then any other network.

I hope they get this back soon. I tried calling and got a recording. :rolleyes:

Has anybody noticed lately the 10 dB or so volume increase between HD shows and commercials vs. SD shows/commercials on WKYC? It was so bad last night during Las Vegas that we had to mute the commercials or be blown out of the room! The other stations, especially WOIO, seem to have much better control over this. In fact, 19's commercial audio has tended to be lower than the program audio lately...

Absolutely I notice a difference in sound volume between HD shows vs. commercials on WKYC. It is especially extreme during episodes of Friday Night Lights. I think it's more that the shows are broadcast at a lower than normal volume. I find myself turning it up to a higher db level than compared to other channels. As a result, the commercials come on blaring loud! It is so bad I have to make sure the remote is in hand the entire time I am viewing an NBC show or risk waking the dog or even the next door neighbor when the commercials come on!

I also have an SPL meter that I use to setup my AV receiver using Video Essentials. When playing a dvd, I set my receiver volume to -15, when watching analog cable I have to lower it to -35.

When watching the primetime shows in HD and DD5.1, I find that the right volume for certain shows is -15, which makes the commercials too loud.

I have to conclude that when the show sounds like it is at too low a volume, they are really the first ones to get it right.

Below is a list of stations I was getting last night with The JVC 30' Inch HDTV tuner. A few surprises..Namely 13 Toledo, 9 Steubenville and 17/62 Youngstown. Not sure if some of these are on/off at certain times of the day or if the out of town stations are an anomaly..

Time Warner Digital Lineup-Non Cable Box

Analog Cable (Digital Repeats)

71. Inspirational Network
72, 94-7 Fit TV
74, SoapNet
75, 94-5, 94-6 TV Guide Channel
76. SportsTime Ohio
77. WE
78. Oxygen
79, 94-3 Shop-At Home

Digital

80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland
80-2 WKYC Weather Plus
80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland
94-1 Bravo
94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.
94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown
100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo
100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland
100-3 Discovery
100-4 Food Network
100-5 E!
104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland
104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now
108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland
108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland
122-6 NBA League Pass Preview
123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio
124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews
124-4 Biography Channel
124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel

I just spoke with an engineer over at WOIO named Jim. He told me that CBS has decided to use different equipment then what they sent over and that they had to send the Dolby 5.1 equipment back. He says it will be "several months" before they will have it again.

Again showing how cheap WOIO is he said that they could pay for it themselves but they have several stations and it would be expensive so they will only use equipment that the network sends them. He says that CBS sent the Dolby 5.1 equipment over so they could "evaluate" it and claims he didn't know they would take it back.

Does this sound like B.S. to anyone else but me?

Also he mentioned they had a lot of things going on like HD news. I said so I had heard, and I asked him when when he thought that was going to get started. Well, despite what we've been hearing he says sometime around June. Hopefully.

I'm just so disappointed in them giving us what we should be getting and taking it away. WOIO you suck. :mad:

Below is a list of stations I was getting last night with The JVC 30' Inch HDTV tuner. A few surprises..Namely 13 Toledo, 9 Steubenville and 17/62 Youngstown. Not sure if some of these are on/off at certain times of the day or if the out of town stations are an anomaly..

Time Warner Digital Lineup-Non Cable Box


Digital

80-1 WKYC 3 NBC Cleveland
80-2 WKYC Weather Plus
80-3, 108.2 WUAB 43 Cleveland
94-1 Bravo
94-2 WTOV 9 NBC Steubenville, Oh.
94-9 WYFX 17/62 FOX Youngstown
100-1 WTVG 13 ABC Toledo
100-2, 104-3 WEWS 5 ABC Cleveland
100-3 Discovery
100-4 Food Network
100-5 E!
104-1 WJW 8 FOX Cleveland
104-2 WOIO 19 Weather Now
108-1 WOIO 19 CBS Cleveland
108-3 WUAB 43-2 "The Tube" Cleveland
122-6 NBA League Pass Preview
123-5 WIVM-LP 52 Canton, Ohio
124-1, 124-12 On Demand Previews
124-4 Biography Channel
124-9 Time Warner Cable Ad Channel


Can you get a digial signal with out a box?
Or is this something that is exclusive to Warner?

I'm just so disappointed in them giving us what we should be getting and taking it away. WOIO you suck. :mad:What you should be getting? Is there an FCC code stating that all audio must be in 5.1 channel?

Unless there is, WOIO owes the viewer nothing, but a digital signal by some coming date. Appreciate this fact and deal with it. Unless a lot people stop watching WOIO because of the 5.1 channel being unavailable (and seeing most people don't even have HD or Digital to begin with that'd seem to be highly unlikely), WOIO is under almost no pressure to offer 5.1. Where exactly is the benefit for the station to go 5.1 if the price is high and they won't see any benefit from offering it?

I like 5.1 a lot too, but getting upset because a station isn't giving it isn't going to get you anywhere, but a needlessly angry state of mind.

What you should be getting? Is there an FCC code stating that all audio must be in 5.1 channel?

Unless there is, WOIO owes the viewer nothing, but a digital signal by some coming date. Appreciate this fact and deal with it. Unless a lot people stop watching WOIO because of the 5.1 channel being unavailable (and seeing most people don't even have HD or Digital to begin with that'd seem to be highly unlikely), WOIO is under almost no pressure to offer 5.1. Where exactly is the benefit for the station to go 5.1 if the price is high and they won't see any benefit from offering it?

I like 5.1 a lot too, but getting upset because a station isn't giving it isn't going to get you anywhere, but a needlessly angry state of mind.

Did you read the part where I said they gave it to us and took it away? You don't think I have a right to get upset about that?

I understand they don't "have" to give it to us but other cities get it. Then to give it to us for the Super Bowl and a week before and 2 weeks after? Isn't that kind of a tease?

I think it is and I am pissed about it. I've already contacted the network to express my opinion. I don't give a rats behind who pays for it, it just adds so much to the broadcast.

Can you get a digial signal with out a box?
Or is this something that is exclusive to Warner?

I've been asking about this at other Forums..Apparently at Time-Warner and some other Cable companies, These channels (Especially the locals) come as "Added Value" if you have other services. As mentioned earlier, I have Roadrunner and digital phone. It is thought the cable channels may go away if cable companies decide to encrypt them..

The JVC AV-30W77 has a QAM tuner built in. Cable systems use QAM to encode their digital signal and the cable box will decode this and present it to your display. Cable companies must provide the local channels "in the clear" to their customers. Unfortunatly most built in HDTV tuners are not QAM capable. You should not find any premium movie channels with this setup. When I purchase my next bedroom TV I will make sure it has a QAM tuner so I can just plug the cable coax in and recieve the locals, plus whatever the cable system does not encode, in HD. This allows you to return a rented cable box and save $$ each month.

Ray

Cable companies must provide the local channels "in the clear" to their customers.

This statement is a gross generalization and incorrect interpretation of the FCC requirement. The FCC only requires a single version of a local broadcast to be viewable by all subscribers. Cable operators are complying with this rule by providing the local analog broadcast unscrambled (in most/all markets). Once the analog signal goes away it may be a new ball game, but if cable operators get their way they will convert the digital signal at the head end and still provide an analog version of the local affiliate. Some cable operators (as stated earlier) provide digital locals in the clear as "added value" while others don't because of the lack of a requirement.

For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:

If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.

For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:

If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.

You know I might just get a rat shack antenna and hook it to my S3 JUST to pull in that station. I may overrule wife's objections on these grounds. :D

According the the WIXY Tribute Site, XM did a WIXY retrospective before - like over a year ago.

If you can get WJCU-FM 88.7 (John Carroll University radio which used to be known as WUJC until '97) on Tuesday evenings form 6:00 - 9:00 they have a program called "Retro Radio". Hosted by Joe Madigan (a 20-something that sounds like he lived in the 60's - he even has a great knowledge of the rare tracks that never made it up the Hot 100 but did make it on the WIXY-60 charts).

Too bad WJCU had to shut off the streaming due to prohibitive royalty payments.

(They won't let me put or keep quoted URL's in until I make 5 posts, so I had to cut that part of the quote - dannykewl)

Hi, I just ran across this forum, and registered to let you know WJCU has their stream back, Joe Madigan is on as I type and WJCU is presently holding a fundraiser radiothon, and playing all Cleveland stuff tonight. Due to new FCC regulations, WJCU now has to pay several thousand dollars a year for streaming instead of several hundred. I listen online as the signal does not reach the far west side of Cleveland that I'm in very well. Madigan has an awesome show.

For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:

If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.

Even if WOIO had sense enough to go to 19 due to the Canadian interference issues, that wouldn't really help WBNS, as WCPO in Cincinnati has selected CH10 as their final digital channel, IIRC.

After the Third Round Channel Election ends in less than a week, it will probably be too late for anyone to change their channel selection anyway.

For those of you that want CBS-HD with DD 5.1:

If you live inside the circle on this map you may have another choice: WKBN-DT!

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html

Let WOIO know you want DD 5.1 now or you'll do whatever it takes to get WKBN-DT (like a 40' tower to get over an obstruction to getting the signal). While you are at it, tell them to get their piddly DT signal off ch 10, where London Ontario will still be in analog after the U.S transition ends. Give ch 10 back to WBNS in Columbus and go digital on ch 19.


I concur with Michael on this. With just a Philips MANT510 Indoor Amplified Antenna angled correctly, WKBN and WYFX come in like they are in my back yard. Just have a problem getting enough stations in one spot to make it worthwhile but I'll keep trying.. :)

Does anyone in here actually get 25-1 WVIZ-DT?? I know they are running on low power right now. Do they show anything worthwhile? I previously heard they would be at full power by the spring. I don't know if this is true.

While I'm at it... anyone know anything about 55-1 WBNX?? I've emailed them about three times and each time they push back the scheduled HD launch. I want Veronica Mars in HD!

Cheers.

Time Warner in Cleveland shows the 25-1 feed. It's mostly repeats of older HD shows, with some new ones thrown in. It is definitely not the same schedule as the regular WVIZ.

I concur with Michael on this. With just a Philips MANT510 Indoor Amplified Antenna angled correctly, WKBN and WYFX come in like they are in my back yard. Just have a problem getting enough stations in one spot to make it worthwhile but I'll keep trying.. :)

I don't really care about the 5.1 audio since my tv doesn't really have that capability, but I think it's rotten for WOIO to tease everyone for a few weeks like that. I don't personally get WKBN-DT since I'm in the Cuyahoga Valley, but it seems like most people who live in my area can get it. At least this is an option for a lot of people, and maybe WOIO will realize that their stubbornness is taking away viewers.

Does anyone in here actually get 25-1 WVIZ-DT?? I know they are running on low power right now. Do they show anything worthwhile? I previously heard they would be at full power by the spring. I don't know if this is true.

While I'm at it... anyone know anything about 55-1 WBNX?? I've emailed them about three times and each time they push back the scheduled HD launch. I want Veronica Mars in HD!

Cheers.
I live 3.5 miles from the WVIZ-DT Brookpark mini-tower. If I move my Silver Sensor to my rear patio door I can get it. It's a hassle because my TV is not near the patio door. Every other Cleveland station is receivable out the side window except WVIZ. the signal is so weak plus my house has aluminum siding which screws up the signals (amazingly the Akron signals, 25 miles away, make it through the garage door and another wall just fine).

As far as WBNX goes - I can see their tower when I look out my patio door. If I ever see workers on the tower I'll report it here.

Sorry for the dumb ? , but i wanted to know if i could hook up rabbit ears and recive these stations...I have 2 diffrent ones, one says it is hdtv and the other is a over priced rca ..
Thanks in advance..

Sorry for the dumb ? , but i wanted to know if i could hook up rabbit ears and recive these stations...I have 2 diffrent ones, one says it is hdtv and the other is a over priced rca ..
Thanks in advance..

It shouldn't matter, as long as your TV can decode OTA digital signals.

It shouldn't matter, as long as your TV can decode OTA digital signals.
thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?

thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?

What kind of TV is it, is it even HD? You can plug the antenna in and scan for channels and see if it does a digital OTA scan.

thanks...how do i find out if my tv does?

If you don't know if you have a HD television, then you probably don't have one. They are very expensive and your manual should tell you if it's either HD ready or capable of receiving HD over the air.

If you don't know if you have a HD television, then you probably don't have one. They are very expensive and your manual should tell you if it's either HD ready or capable of receiving HD over the air.

i do have a hd tv.. but it is my 1st, i didnt see anything that said OTA .. but it shows diffrent setups to get reg.tv..It is hd ready also..Thanks, i feel pretty stupid, but this is how we learn i guess.

I am seeing something odd tonight OTA. I tuned to where WEAO-DT usually is (rf 50) and the PSIP is reporting it as 45-1, 45-2 and 45-3 WNEO-DT (which is the sister station usually on rf 46). Same as what would normally be on 49-1, 49-2, and 49-3 (Create, analog rebroadcast, and Ohio Channel). Also, the time is only 18 minutes off (it is usually hours off) and there is actually something in the guide (usually there is nothing). The guide data is not correct - it only has two programs at 10:00 and 1:00 and they are both labelled "WNEO".

I tried tuning to rf 46 which is supposed to be WNEO-DT and could not get a signal. I don't always get a signal here anyway, since most of the WNEO-DT signal is aimed to the east from their Salem xmitter - away from me.

At the very least, it appears that PBS45&49 is fooling around with their PSIP. Maybe they are testing new equipment? :D

i do have a hd tv.. but it is my 1st, i didnt see anything that said OTA .. but it shows diffrent setups to get reg.tv..It is hd ready also..Thanks, i feel pretty stupid, but this is how we learn i guess.

"HD Ready" is just a fancy way of saying that it doesn't have a digital (ATSC) tuner. This means that your TV may be capable of showing an HD picture from another source but doesn't have the capability of picking up the digital OTA signals.

Outrageous for WOIO to do what it did. I totally agree with Hookbill. Sounds like a vendor gave them a loaner and then got burned. I am going to make the effort again to pull in WKBN. I have a good antenna with a rotor but I don't think it is high enough. (I'm in Gates Mlls) Is anyone else in this area able to get WKBN?

TheBlackKnight:
I saw the same thing.

JJK

I am seeing something odd tonight OTA. I tuned to where WEAO-DT usually is (rf 50) and the PSIP is reporting it as 45-1, 45-2 and 45-3 WNEO-DT (which is the sister station usually on rf 46). Same as what would normally be on 49-1, 49-2, and 49-3 (Create, analog rebroadcast, and Ohio Channel). Also, the time is only 18 minutes off (it is usually hours off) and there is actually something in the guide (usually there is nothing). The guide data is not correct - it only has two programs at 10:00 and 1:00 and they are both labelled "WNEO".

I tried tuning to rf 46 which is supposed to be WNEO-DT and could not get a signal. I don't always get a signal here anyway, since most of the WNEO-DT signal is aimed to the east from their Salem xmitter - away from me.

At the very least, it appears that PBS45&49 is fooling around with their PSIP. Maybe they are testing new equipment? :D

There was a failure in the microwave system from the Kent master control to the Copley transmitter. The variable rate modem feeding Copley (WEAO) failed. In order to get it back on-the-air, the output of the VRM that feeds Salem (WNEO) was "teed" into the Copley microwave... hence, the mis-PSIP data. Engineering is hammering on the broken VRM.

WOIO always has had a small station mentality. They are a very cheap amature type operation.

WOIO always has had a small station mentality. They are a very cheap amature type operation.

I know some of the engineering staff there and they're honest, hard working people. They do the best they can with what they have and I give them credit for that.

I know some of the engineering staff there and they're honest, hard working people. They do the best they can with what they have and I give them credit for that.

I agree. The only thing amateur about the engineering staff is their amateur radio (ham) licenses!

I agree. The only thing amateur about the engineering staff is their amateur radio (ham) licenses!
Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?

I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.

Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?

I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.


Agreed and Cathode Kid I hope you understand I'm not taking shots at WOIO's staff. What bugs me is their management. Have you seen how many television stations they own? They own a bunch, more the 10 maybe 20. And since WKYC is not an NBC owned station but they bought DD 5.1 equipment, why not WOIO. WEWS says they will have their's in place around June.

Look at how management handled the Browns situation. They shot themselves in the foot and now they continue to go after the Browns with all kinds of rumors and inuendos from thei "Action News Team".

It's just sad that CBS doesn't force them to carry the 5.1 equipment. I believe they could do that, but who knows how long their contract is with CBS to be an affiliate.

I worked breifly in the news department at WOIO/WUAB a few years back and that GM/VP Bill Applegate is a slimeball. The entire management staff is incompetent. The engineers and all of the production staff are talented people who deserve better.

Please don;t blame the engineering staff. The blame lies with Raycom's management of WOIO/WUAB. They would cut off their noses if it would help the bottom line. Why else would they want to stay on Rf ch 10?

I really wished WBNS would have tried to fight for ch 10, it's rightfully theirs - they had that channel for DECADES before WOIO ever existed. Now we in the Cleveland market will suffer with a sub par frequency for our local CBS. At least some of us can get WKBN-DT. Cable ans satellite cannot legally give us WKBN, but there is no law stopping us from watching the OTA signal.

Please don't misunderstand my post. I too agree that the engineers are hard working honest folks. And the "amateur radio" statement is a very positive comment.

I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.They took a great Fox affiliate (19) and turned it into a mediocre at best CBS affiliate. And it is criminal what they've done to WUAB-43..

I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.

Its not much better here in the wireless industry, trust me. (S*)

I've read horror stories about Raycom in general all over the country..Their management is horrible all over.They took a great Fox affiliate (19) and turned it into a mediocre at best CBS affiliate. And it is criminal what they've done to WUAB-43..

I'm glad that WBNX has the CW for the Cleveland DMA. I know they aren't HD yet, but I would gladly wait then to have had Raycomm screwing it up!

Is there even a reason to watch 43-1 anymore? At least it has The Tube, which does look better now.

There was a failure in the microwave system from the Kent master control to the Copley transmitter. The variable rate modem feeding Copley (WEAO) failed. In order to get it back on-the-air, the output of the VRM that feeds Salem (WNEO) was "teed" into the Copley microwave... hence, the mis-PSIP data. Engineering is hammering on the broken VRM.

I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV :(

I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV :(

I haven't noticed any difference. The signal is still high for me, but I'm only 6.2 miles from the transmitter.

I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV :(
I'm getting Rf 50 at 75% in Parma, it used to be in the high 80's. This is with a Silver Sensor aimed though a wall and my attached garage (if I had a south-facing window in my family room my reception of Akron stations would be greatly increased).

Newbie to free HDTV here so...
Please if anyone can help with a few questions.
Right now I subscribe to Time Warner BASIC cable. (no digital, no HDTV, not even expanded basic... just basic)
I have an HDTV monitor and just bought an external ATSC/QAM tuner.

Main question: AM I going to be able to get any stations via cable useing the ex.tuner?
I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.
Thanks

Hi,
I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.

(also has clear QAM changed at all on TWC since this summer? I am on the Green system, not the Akron or Canton ones.)

dj9:
You won't know until you try it. In the old days (1969) I hung a 17 ft log periodic in my apartment living room and it worked fine.
JJK

Didn't TWC integrate the Green-based system into Akron and/or Canton?

(That's the old Marks Cablevision, no?)

Didn't TWC integrate the Green-based system into Akron and/or Canton?

(That's the old Marks Cablevision, no?)

Yep, it's Marks Cablevision. It was Cable One for awhile in the late 90s.

The Green system is its own TWC NEO system running from the old office on 619. The channel lineup is similar to Akron's with the addition of a local channel ran by Green HS.

Cable One offered cable Internet for just a few months before TWC took over; that was back in 2002.

I haven't been able to tune rf50 for several days and was still unable to tune it this morning (monday). I am assuming it is related to the failure you mentioned. Is the signal not being transmitted at full power? I am only getting a partial lock from Hartville where rf 50 is usually tunable with a set top antenna. My little girl keeps asking why I broke the TV :(
No change is trasmit power...only the PSIP data that is inserted into the stream. The VRM unit is at the manufacturer being repaired.

Hi,
I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.
I don't live down there, but I would think you'd be able to pull in plenty of stations - probably more than I can get up here in the Cleveland area. Use the antennaweb site to determine what to expect from your location.

Why can't you put up an outdoor antenna? Are you renting?

Hi,
I live in Green OH a few miles south of Akron. Is there any chance of receiving OTA HD with an indoor or in-attic antenna? Putting an antenna on the roof is not allowed.

(also has clear QAM changed at all on TWC since this summer? I am on the Green system, not the Akron or Canton ones.)
Is not allowed by whom? The FCC has specifically pre-empted local laws and Homeowners Associations CCR's (Deed restrictions) with respect to "Over the Air Reception Devices". This specifically applies to TV antennas. See FCC 96-328 released on August 6, 1996. It should be available on the FCC.gov website.
Now, if its your wife not doing the allowing, that's a different story!

Newbie to free HDTV here so...
Please if anyone can help with a few questions.
Right now I subscribe to Time Warner BASIC cable. (no digital, no HDTV, not even expanded basic... just basic)
I have an HDTV monitor and just bought an external ATSC/QAM tuner.

Main question: AM I going to be able to get any stations via cable useing the ex.tuner?
I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.
Thanks

I live in Hartville and have TWC HD with the 8300 DVR. I have split my cable before going in to the 8300 and I am feeding a Dvico tuner RT 5 Gold in my HTPC. I have the tuner configured for QAM. I am able to get channels 2-79 analog plus the HD Cleveland stations.

I am a little confused. You have TW basic and the external QAM tuner connected to an HDTV monitor. Have you tried connecting the cable to the tuner to see what you get?

Now, if its your wife not doing the allowing, that's a different story!

My wife is more powerfull then the FCC?

Scarry. :eek: ;)

I live in Hartville and have TWC HD with the 8300 DVR. I have split my cable before going in to the 8300 and I am feeding a Dvico tuner RT 5 Gold in my HTPC. I have the tuner configured for QAM. I am able to get channels 2-79 analog plus the HD Cleveland stations.

I am a little confused. You have TW basic and the external QAM tuner connected to an HDTV monitor. Have you tried connecting the cable to the tuner to see what you get?

Ya, very quickly tried a few different ways for the tuner to do an auto search of stations found and it found nothing. Shouldn't it at least find the analog stations that I already get from TW?

Ya, very quickly tried a few different ways for the tuner to do an auto search of stations found and it found nothing. Shouldn't it at least find the analog stations that I already get from TW?

Not if you were accurate in your description of your tuner(ATSC/QAM). The analog channels would be NTSC. What is the make/model of your tuner?

Not if you were accurate in your description of your tuner(ATSC/QAM). The analog channels would be NTSC. What is the make/model of your tuner?

Ya, I guess I figured that out now. The tuner boasts that it can receive ATSC AND NTSC signals, but apparently that is only "over the air" signals, because I am getting no stations at all via the tuner.

The tuner is actually designed to hook up to an SDTV. It takes the digital and/or HDTV signal and converts it to standard analog signal. So then you can watch the nice HDTV widescreen picture on your SDTV. Some people who have used it say it outputs a very nice clean 480i picture. The reason I got it was because it was very cheap and right now I am very poor as far as expendable income. The model is RJ-1000ASTC. Here are some links to discussion and description...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798636
http://ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=4973305

If I were to subscribe to TW digital cable, would the tuner then be able to get the stations I want (free HD)??
If I want to do OTA, will I need anything other than the antenna??

Thanks

Ya, I guess I figured that out now. The tuner boasts that it can receive ATSC AND NTSC signals, but apparently that is only "over the air" signals, because I am getting no stations at all via the tuner.

The tuner is actually designed to hook up to an SDTV. It takes the digital and/or HDTV signal and converts it to standard analog signal. So then you can watch the nice HDTV widescreen picture on your SDTV. Some people who have used it say it outputs a very nice clean 480i picture. The reason I got it was because it was very cheap and right now I am very poor as far as expendable income. The model is RJ-1000ASTC. Here are some links to discussion and description...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798636
http://ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=4973305

If I were to subscribe to TW digital cable, would the tuner then be able to get the stations I want (free HD)??
If I want to do OTA, will I need anything other than the antenna??

Thanks
No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA. You would need a tuner that has QAM in order to see the cable fed digital signals that are not scrambled. With an antenna you should be able to receive most of the Cleveland stations in free OTA digital. only 23 and 55 are not yet digital, and 25 is in very low power (you have to live near Brookpark Rd. to even have a chance of getting 25 at this time).

Additionally, if you live inside the circle on this map you may also be able to get WKBN-DT from Youngstown:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DT603946.html
WKBN-DT has one of the best coverage areas of any digital OTA signal, and you get an SD FOX affilliate on a subchannel to boot (great for football season since WKBN is Youngstown's CBS affilliate). They even have DD 5.1 while WOIO does not (well WOIO did have DD 5.1 for the Super Bowl, but lost the ability soon after).

No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA. You would need a tuner that has QAM in order to see the cable fed digital signals that are not scrambled. With an antenna you should be able to receive most of the Cleveland stations in free OTA digital. only 23 and 55 are not yet digital, and 25 is in very low power (you have to live near Brookpark Rd. to even have a chance of getting 25 at this time).

The unit I have is supposed to have a QAM tuner in it. That's the main reason I bought it.
Thanks for the info thus far.

I guess specifcally what I am looking for is any specific info anyone has on TimeWarner and their unscrambled signals. Do I qualify to recieve those signals even though I'm only subscribed to basic analog service? Would it make a difference if I subscribed to their basic digital service?

No, that tuner is strictly for OTA digital signals. Unlike analog NTSC, digital tv over cable is modulated differently than the way it's modulated OTA.

This contradicts both the eCost site, the AVS thread, and the RJ Tech site (http://www.rjtech.net/desc_RJ-1000ATSC.htm). I'm sorry, but I believe you're wrong.

If I had to guess at Smarty-pants's problem, I would say he's got a bad box.

EDIT: or possibly his digital channels are filtered.

The unit I have is supposed to have a QAM tuner in it. That's the main reason I bought it.
Thanks for the info thus far.

I guess specifcally what I am looking for is any specific info anyone has on TimeWarner and their unscrambled signals. Do I qualify to recieve those signals even though I'm only subscribed to basic analog service? Would it make a difference if I subscribed to their basic digital service?

You qualify to receive whatever is sent unscrambled, unencrypted and unfiltered on your line. Certainly subbing to digital service should remove any filtering on the line, but that doesn't solve any encryption that may be employed on the digital channels. TWC can require certain equipment to receive some of their channels such as a rented tuner box or a cable card device along with the associated rental fee for the cable card.

I would say that if you have access to all the analog channels TWC offers and you cannot find a single unencrypted digital channel with your tuner, then you've got a problem that isn't TWC related (tuner box configuration, bad tuner box, etc).

You qualify to receive whatever is sent unscrambled, unencrypted and unfiltered on your line. Certainly subbing to digital service should remove any filtering on the line, but that doesn't solve any encryption that may be employed on the digital channels. TWC can require certain equipment to receive some of their channels such as a rented tuner box or a cable card device along with the associated rental fee for the cable card.

I would say that if you have access to all the analog channels TWC offers and you cannot find a single unencrypted digital channel with your tuner, then you've got a problem that isn't TWC related (tuner box configuration, bad tuner box, etc).

Cable systems use Quadrature Amplitude Modulation, either 64-bit QAM or 256-bit QAM for digital channels. The OTA ATSC format is 8-VSB... 8-bit Vestigial Sideband Modulation. It's an entirely different animal from QAM and even looks radically different on a spectrum analyzer. An ATSC tuner that stumbles across a QAM signal won't even know that anything is there and vice-versa. This is expected behavior and doesn't indicate a hardware failure.

Thanks again guys for all the feedback thus far. I think my main problem is that since I only have basic analog service, that TW has filters in place to block everything else. So I guess I'm going to have to try to upgrade to Digital service or maybe try for some OTA HDTV.
Is it complicated to try to set up an indoor antenna?... or is it as simple a plug-n-play? I have a nice big bay window in my living room. Hopefully that should help.

TWC in my area uses blockers- if you have basic cable- they put on a high band blocker so you can't get the QAM stuff on the high band. I have roadrunner which uses the high band so I can split my internet cable to a qam tuner and get the local hd channels. They did put a low band blocker so I don't get the basic cable.

Ooo ya. I forgot about RR being that high bandwidth. I was thinking of switching to RR too since they're getting ready to jack up my DSL cost.
Skoprowski, how many channels can you bring in? Do you also have an OTA antenna??... and if so, how many channels canyou get with that?

Ooo ya. I forgot about RR being that high bandwidth. I was thinking of switching to RR too since they're getting ready to jack up my DSL cost.
Skoprowski, how many channels can you bring in? Do you also have an OTA antenna??... and if so, how many channels canyou get with that?


Smarty-Pants..If you go back a page or two in the thread it will describe my experience with QAM Tuner-Roadrunner-I get about 20 or so channels including digitals on 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43..along with surprisingly enough, a few other broadcast signals from out of the area and some cable channels..along with Canton LP-Channel 52..

This is expected behavior and doesn't indicate a hardware failure.

And yet his tuner has QAM demodulation, so how does that not possibly indicate a hardware failure?

Smarty-Pants..If you go back a page or two in the thread it will describe my experience with QAM Tuner-Roadrunner-I get about 20 or so channels including digitals on 3, 5, 8, 19, and 43..along with surprisingly enough, a few other broadcast signals from out of the area and some cable channels..along with Canton LP-Channel 52..

Wow, thanks Tim. I'll check it out.

Cox Cleveland Updates SARA Firmware
On Feb. 27th, Cox Cleveland finally updated the SA 8300HD, SARA firmware.
Have not yet checked what the new Ver. # is, but it has 4 fast forward speeds.
I've been busy:
www.ohiospeedskating.com/nationals.htm

Cox Cleveland Updates SATA Firmware
On Feb. 27th, Cox Cleveland finally updated the SA 8300HD, SATA firmware.
Have not yet checked what the new Ver. # is, but it has 4 fast forward speeds.
I've been busy:
www.ohiospeedskating.com/nationals.htm

It's been a while but besides the 4th speed I think it allowed us to playback from the beginning while the show was still in recording process. However I'm not certain, that was with Adelphia and they let us have it for 2 days and then pulled it.

I know for sure that whatever the second thing was I liked it. I thought the 4th speed however was too fast for most practical purposes.

Thanks again guys for all the feedback thus far. I think my main problem is that since I only have basic analog service, that TW has filters in place to block everything else. So I guess I'm going to have to try to upgrade to Digital service or maybe try for some OTA HDTV.
Is it complicated to try to set up an indoor antenna?... or is it as simple a plug-n-play? I have a nice big bay window in my living room. Hopefully that should help.
Is your bay window facing in the direction of the transmitters? If so you can use an indoor antenna with better results than if you were aiming at a wall. The other question is how far you are from the transmitters, aiming out the window won't help you if you need the antenna to be 30' above ground level.

Years ago I had a friend who lived on the 23rd floor of a high rise apartment along the Lake Erie shoreline in Euclid. He could get both the Youngstown and Erie UHF stations perfectly with the little bow-tie that came with his TV (he was on the eastern side of the building with a big balcony with sliding glass doors).

I live in Canton/N.Canton/44721. If I can't get free HDTV or anything like that from TW, I will then need an antenna. Any suggestions on what type of setup I need for my location? I am poor right now and am looking for a CHEAP/INEXPENSIVE solution.
Thanks

A zip of 44721 puts you north or east of N. Canton proper, probably somewhere in Plain Twp. Its mostly flat in that direction, so you may have a good shot at OTA digital TV with an inexpensive indoor antenna. Especially if you have north (Cleveland) or east (Y-town) facing windows. From Y-town, you should be able to get WKBN-DT and probably WFMJ-DT. From Cleveland, you might have problems with WKYC-DT and possibly WOIO-DT. From the NW side of N. Canton, I can get WKBN-DT and WFMJ-DT with a Philips indoor amplified antenna pointed out a north facing window. For Cleveland reception, I am hooked into a 30-foot high outdoor antenna - I receive all Cleveland stations consistantly except for WKYC-DT and occasional problems with WOIO-DT.

I just stumbled across this from the Canadian's equivelent of the FCC:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Notices/2007/pb2007-14.htm#5
A new analog station is being proposed for ch 26 in London, Ontario.

Maybe WVIZ should consider staying on ch 25 at the end of the transition.

I can't put up an antenna becuase of an evil homeowners association (and I have cable).

I've already got TWC, but I am considering dropping the DVR (as it probably uses as much/more power than my computer and is loud -- and I only watch locals anyway). I would probably get the HDHomeRun networked dual HDTV tuner instead as my HDTV is tunerless. It has two inputs/two tuners, one I wouldn't mind using for an antenna if I could get the Youngstown stations.

A zip of 44721 puts you north or east of N. Canton proper, probably somewhere in Plain Twp. Its mostly flat in that direction, so you may have a good shot at OTA digital TV with an inexpensive indoor antenna. Especially if you have north (Cleveland) or east (Y-town) facing windows. From Y-town, you should be able to get WKBN-DT and probably WFMJ-DT. From Cleveland, you might have problems with WKYC-DT and possibly WOIO-DT. From the NW side of N. Canton, I can get WKBN-DT and WFMJ-DT with a Philips indoor amplified antenna pointed out a north facing window. For Cleveland reception, I am hooked into a 30-foot high outdoor antenna - I receive all Cleveland stations consistantly except for WKYC-DT and occasional problems with WOIO-DT.

I'm in 44319 (Green, OH) so I imagine results would be similar for me, no?

Any recommendations on antenna choices, preferably something I could buy locally and return if results are unsatisfactory? Belden Village is the preferred shopping area.

I've got an east-facing window in the preferred location, but as the tuner I want to get is Ethernet-based, I can put it wherever I would like (to wire Ethernet, that is). Perhaps I could get a little creative...

I just stumbled across this from the Canadian's equivelent of the FCC:
http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/Notices/2007/pb2007-14.htm#5
A new analog station is being proposed for ch 26 in London, Ontario.

Maybe WVIZ should consider staying on ch 25 at the end of the transition.

IIRC, KDKA in Pittsburgh is going with Ch 25, so that would be no better.

It's been a while but besides the 4th speed I think it allowed us to playback from the beginning while the show was still in recording process. However I'm not certain, that was with Adelphia and they let us have it for 2 days and then pulled it.

I know for sure that whatever the second thing was I liked it. I thought the 4th speed however was too fast for most practical purposes.

Yep, the option to play from the beginning is back! And hopefully now the program won't blow out when you are behind and the program ends like it did previously. Nothing more aggravating than pausing a program and then have it go live when it ends and you lose your place. And I totally agree with you that the 4th speed was useless in the past as it was far too fast for anything other than going from the start to the end of a really long movie quickly. Thankfully, they have slowed down that 4th speed and now it's very useable! It's just a bit quicker than the 3x speed. I also noticed that the regular program labels while scrolling now has the program rating.

And yet his tuner has QAM demodulation, so how does that not possibly indicate a hardware failure?

I was under the impression from the discussion that his tuner didn't include QAM service, based on his mention of ATSC. I'm sorry if I misunderstood this.

I'm in 44319 (Green, OH) so I imagine results would be similar for me, no?

Any recommendations on antenna choices, preferably something I could buy locally and return if results are unsatisfactory? Belden Village is the preferred shopping area.


Being in Green, you're a little further west (away from Y-town), but still probably close enough for a shot at reception with an indoor, especially with the east-facing window.

My guess is that an amplified antenna will help - I originally had an unamplified, and could not get WKBN-DT. The Philips that I have has a switch that allows you to turn the amplifier on or off.

Numerous places in the BV area to get an indoor antenna - Radio Shack, Sears, Walmart - I think I've even seen them at Lowes. I'm sure you would be able to return it to any of these stores if unsatisfied.

I can't put up an antenna becuase of an evil homeowners association (and I have cable).

The homeowners association cannot prevent you from putting up an antenna. The fact that you have cable has nothing to do with it. Their restriction is unenforceable. If you want to put up an antenna, you may. See the following FCC ruling for full information:

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

Adelphia backed the update out because with Fox8HD there were problems when they went to commecials or non-hd content the SA8300 would stop recording and then sometimes restart. It ended up breaking a show up into segments.
I haven recorded Fox8HD since the update to see if the problem is still there.

Are you sure that this particular update is what casued that? I'm not sure why but I thought that the issue with FOX and segmented recording was a problem for longer than the day and a half that Adelphia left the update in force. Maybe I'm not remembering it correctly and that problem was only for a day or two? Seems longer when I think back. I remember many saying they didn't really know why the update was pulled other than the 4X speed was too fast.