No Indians baseball today (surprise surprise). Both Saturday games have been cancelled. Looks like they're going to try a doubleheader on Sunday:

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070407&content_id=1884517&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle

...We do the reboot thing and she sends the signal. A message pops up: "Loading Guide Data". YES! Followed by another message: Service is not authorized for this unit. I finish the beer and have an all day appointment on Monday. She swears activating MLB Extra Innings had nothing to do with this.



Hookbill, did that box work the day before? If it's saying "not authorized" that doesn't mean that it's broken - it only means that it's missing some of the information that it needs to do it's thing. If you bypass the box and go directly to the tuner input of the TV, do you get a good signal there?

No signal for WBNX-DT here in Canton at all..Indoor Phillips Mant-510. Is their Transmitter more in Cleveland than Akron?..Also, WOAC-DT 67-1 seems much more stable in the last day or two.

I checked for them on Thursday night after reading about their appearance in this forum. Signal strength was strong here in SW Canton at that time. They were not on the air last night when I checked nor today. They're either still just testing intermittently or something went awry right after their startup. Their transmitter site is in the Parma area like most of the other Akron-Cleveland stations, I believe.

Hookbill, did that box work the day before? If it's saying "not authorized" that doesn't mean that it's broken - it only means that it's missing some of the information that it needs to do it's thing. If you bypass the box and go directly to the tuner input of the TV, do you get a good signal there?

Yes, and as a matter of fact I was able to get the box partially working. It gives me a message saying "Special Features not available now" and I only get analog channels through the box. If I fool with it too much it goes back to unauthorized and quits completely.

I have it running through my DVD/VCR player and analog works fine. The person I worked with last night said on her side it showed active and we did all the tricks but couldn't get it to work.

Do you have an answer?

Well you can't get much closer to the WBNX tower than I am. The tower lights literally refelect off the house across the street!

There was no signal yesterday. I confirmed that there was no RF on ch 30 on my "add DTV" screen after 55.1 could not be found. Thursday I was able to add WBNX and it showed up as 55.1. The picture was SD upconverted (even though the CW network feed was in HD)

I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.

Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...

Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?

thx,
Tom

I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.

Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...

Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?

thx,
Tom
To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is addigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT. On my receiver I manually added ch 30, whch was identified in the EPG as "55.01". The virtural channel number comes from the PSIP data that is transmitted by the digital station. If the PSIP data is missing or different you may end up with a "channel not found" message even thugh the signal is there. That happened to WEWS a few weeks ago - 125 signal strength but no lock. I tried to readd rf 15 but it would not take. Evidently WEWS's digital transmitter was on but not sending any data.

I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.

Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...

Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?

thx,
Tom
To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is assigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT. On my receiver I manually added ch 30, whch was identified in the EPG as "55.01". The virtural channel number comes from the PSIP data that is transmitted by the digital station. If the PSIP data is missing or different you may end up with a "channel not found" message even though the signal is there. That happened to WEWS a few weeks ago - 125 signal strength but no lock. I tried to readd rf 15 but it would not take. Evidently WEWS's digital transmitter was on but not sending any data.

I never thought to check 55-1, (great, now I have to manually check 2 channels...). Nothing at either 30-1 or 55-1 for now.

Hopefully the station will see us as a valuable tool. They could send a test signal and one of us (or many)will be barking about it within minutes...

Rluyster - when u saw the CW show up was it 55-1 or 30-1?

thx,
Tom

I manually tuned to 30-1 and the receiver immediately mapped it to 55-1 where the video/audio showed up along with the "WBNX-DT" call sign. I think all receivers do this as long as the station is sending the proper PSIP information.

Cathode Kid your post encouraged me to try another rep over at TW. I got a rep by the name of Heather whom was very helpful. She agreed that a truck roll wasn't necessary and then she began a real hard look to find out what the problem may be. She suspected that it had something to do with the MLB Extra Innings purchase. After spending about 15 minutes on the phone she said she would like to call me back while she continued to work on the problem.

About 15 minutes later she called back and ask me to check the box. It still wasn't digital, just analog but no message saying "not authorized". She worked on the other end and then it jumped to channel 15. Once I saw that, I knew she had it and punched in an HD channel. It worked. Truck roll cancelled.

Thanks for giving me an idea to push this issue further. I won't have to waste the entire day sitting here waiting for a truck. :)

To clarify the difference: ch 30 is the rf frequency that WBNX-DT is addigned. 55-1 is the virtural channel for WBNX-DT.

After thinking about it, I should've known to check 55-1 in the first place. To receive NBC, it's 3-1(not 2-1) and Fox is 8-1(not 31-1) and so on...

Thx for the reminder.

Still nothing on either 30-1 or 55-1 at the moment.

Tom

...About 15 minutes later she called back and ask me to check the box. It still wasn't digital, just analog but no message saying "not authorized". She worked on the other end and then it jumped to channel 15. Once I saw that, I knew she had it and punched in an HD channel. It worked. Truck roll cancelled.

Thanks for giving me an idea to push this issue further. I won't have to waste the entire day sitting here waiting for a truck. :)

Good news, Hookbill! It's nice to know that it wasn't a hardware problem. So perseverance pays off. :cool:

WBNX-DT hasn't been on, at least that I've seen, since that first appearance on Thursday.

And like Michael P here, I was also getting the encoding glitches on the screen. It had nothing to do with signal, as the station was lighting up just as much as the other stations in the Parma antenna farm, and didn't fluctuate for me.

Andrew, didn't you have to do some adjustment when you first started getting DT signals down there?

We'll have to see what happens when they come back up. Again, they're obviously testing at this point...

Oh, a clarification - WEWS *can* record HD feeds...that's how A) they can even air Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD (it's not live at 7 PM ET), and B) how they can run the late night repeat of the 11 PM news in HD at 1 AM or so.

But there's a difference between recording these feeds, and being able to record stuff for news - and edit it - in HD.

Channel 5 can record the entire newscast in HD, and replay it later, but they can't record/edit news feeds in HD. The other stations in the market can't even do the full program recording.

WBNX-DT hasn't been on, at least that I've seen, since that first appearance on Thursday.

And like Michael P here, I was also getting the encoding glitches on the screen. It had nothing to do with signal, as the station was lighting up just as much as the other stations in the Parma antenna farm, and didn't fluctuate for me.

Andrew, didn't you have to do some adjustment when you first started getting DT signals down there?

We'll have to see what happens when they come back up. Again, they're obviously testing at this point...

From what I've heard about WBNX's digital signal, I think I'll just have to play around with the antenna. I wasn't quite sure if the problem was on their end or mine, but it seems to be me. I only have an indoor antenna, so it isn't really the best, but it will be good enough for me. I noticed that moving the antenna to the other side of the room helps to minimize the severe fluctuations and receive a reliable picture, but keeping it on the original side doesn't seem to work no matter how I orient the antenna or move it slightly. I can receive all my locals good, but the problem is finding that sweet spot where I can get all of them at once. I still haven't been able to do it.

I live in an apartment complex where I can't place an antenna on the roof. I also live on the side of the building facing away from the Cleveland antennas, so that's another challenge I have to work around. I used to live on the other side of the building that was facing Cleveland, and this made an unbelievable difference in signal quality. It will take some slight adjustment, but overall I will have no problems receiving all the stations I should be able to get.

hmmm... so is it not up?? I checked Friday after reading all this hear and didn't see anything on channel 30 :(

Was it only up Thursday for testing or am I just not getting it??

So far on the live OTA HD news thing I think Channel 3.1 is doing mobile in actual HD or they figured out how to get rid of the multiple images in DV widescreen. I'm not sure what 5.1 is doing but 8.1 is using DV widescreen on their mobile stuff and it has multiple images with a blurred background. At least on my setup. When they switch back to the main console everything is perfect.
JJK

hmmm... so is it not up?? I checked Friday after reading all this hear and didn't see anything on channel 30 :(

Was it only up Thursday for testing or am I just not getting it??

Yup... It hasn't been up since Thursday. Hopefully they will get things up and running soon.

Hopefully by May 1st.... Veronica Mars in HD! :o My favorite P.I.!

Oh, a clarification - WEWS *can* record HD feeds...that's how A) they can even air Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy in HD (it's not live at 7 PM ET), and B) how they can run the late night repeat of the 11 PM news in HD at 1 AM or so.

But there's a difference between recording these feeds, and being able to record stuff for news - and edit it - in HD.

Channel 5 can record the entire newscast in HD, and replay it later, but they can't record/edit news feeds in HD. The other stations in the market can't even do the full program recording.
If WEWS can record in HD why was a preemption of Wheel shown at 1 AM in SD (even though the program opened up showing that it was available in HD)?

I'm willing to bet the HD Wheel & Jeopardy is coming off an HD satellite feed that constantly repeats that day's episodes so that the programs are available to every affilliate at the time that it's scheduled to show.

I've never caught a repeat of the news latenight so I can't say weather or not it's in true HD. I did catch a late 11 PM newscast that was late due to longer network programs - those would be in HD for sure because it's live, not taped.

I have to take back my statement that no local station can tape in HD. I caught a true HD news promo spot that ch 3 has been running over the weekend. All the other commercials were in 4 X 3, while this promo was in 16 X 9 and it did not appear to be streatched. The HD recording capacity may be limited in the amount of playing time, since Tom Beres' Sunday AM segments are SD with sidebars. Either the recording time limited or they went outside their facility to produce this spot. It's the only local origination spot I have ever seen in HD.

During the live broadcast from the Jake on Friday afternoon, some cameras were SD with sidebars (the ones outside the Jake) while almost all the inside cameras were in HD. I guess they are still building up their inventory of HD cameras.

If WEWS can record in HD why was a preemption of Wheel shown at 1 AM in SD (even though the program opened up showing that it was available in HD)?

I'm willing to bet the HD Wheel & Jeopardy is coming off an HD satellite feed that constantly repeats that day's episodes so that the programs are available to every affilliate at the time that it's scheduled to show.

I've been lead to believe from our local Wheel & Jeopardy affiliate that those shows are distributed at least a week in advance and must be recorded or captured.

It's entirely possible that running syndicated programming from the recorded source requires manual intervention that WEWS-DT decided was too costly to run at 1AM.

I'm 99% sure that both Jeopardy and Wheel are not fed live in HD, and that they are fed for recording in the afternoon. If they were fed live, say, at 7 PM ET when a lot of stations carry it, a lot more would be on the bandwagon.

I've also seen "NewsChannel 5 at 11"'s 1 AM repeat - not a late-pushed live 11 PM show - in HD. I used to have my 8000HD DVR recording that show, and it was in HD the first night they did HD news...which surprised me.

I don't know why the pushed-to-later Wheel you mentioned was in SD, but I'm pretty sure WEWS can record HD.

Again, as noted, recording full HD programs off the bird (or off of your own studio) is not the same as being able to record and edit (key word here) HD video for the newscast.

I'm sure all three (OK, maybe four if you include WOIO coming "soon") local HD news operations will eventually get to the All-HD feeds both recorded and live. Probably a year or three down the road...

WBNX-DT is still off, and I just rescanned it to be sure.

Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth

I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Cleveland. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.

:rolleyes:
Well we are not off to a good start this morning with my TW cable install (North Ridgeville). I have been a TW basic cable/internet subscriber for several years. Today I scheduled an upgrade to an HD Digital STB for one TV and two cablecards for the S3 Tivo. The installer shows up with ONE cable card and NOTHING else :mad: . He said he'd be back later today with the appropriate deliverables. I'm not very optimistic. I knew there was a reason that I had stayed with D* for 9 years - Self Installs.

As far as the S3 installation with Cablecards, I'm prepared for a disaster. The installer has never seen or heard of one. I had to physically show him the two slots on the unit before he would even believe me that I needed two cards. Are there any lessons learned here locally with TW cablecard installs into a Tivo S3?

Thanks!

:rolleyes:
Well we are not off to a good start this morning with my TW cable install (North Ridgeville). I have been a TW basic cable/internet subscriber for several years. Today I scheduled an upgrade to an HD Digital STB for one TV and two cablecards for the S3 Tivo. The installer shows up with ONE cable card and NOTHING else :mad: . He said he'd be back later today with the appropriate deliverables. I'm not very optimistic. I knew there was a reason that I had stayed with D* for 9 years - Self Installs.

As far as the S3 installation with Cablecards, I'm prepared for a disaster. The installer has never seen or heard of one. I had to physically show him the two slots on the unit before he would even believe me that I needed two cards. Are there any lessons learned here locally with TW cablecard installs into a Tivo S3?

Thanks!


OK..calm down. relax. Hookbill is here. :)

The fact that he has no experience in cable card install shouldn't make any difference. Just make sure that when he shows up that when he shows up to do the install he does it EXACTLY like it says on the instructions. Wait until the one card activates. Then he needs to phone in the information for that card. Then put in the second card. Bottom card goes in first, this is all spelled out on your install sheet. If he does it exactly the way it says then you shouldn't have any problems.

Bad cable cards. That can be a problem. If he's smart he will call around and ask if anyone else knows about these installs and bring some extra cards. They should be the same version, if not that might be a problem but more then likely they will be.

If he calls you again before coming out ask him if he is bringing a couple of extra "just in case". Also ask him if he knows of anybody who has experiience with an S3 that he can call. My install was handled by a Supervisor and a lead tech and they had 5 cards with them. I also made a big stink in an email to TW about not having proper training and apparently it got to some higher up and that's why I got top noch service.

Again, the most important thing is they follow the instructions exactly as it is written on your install sheet. If he deviates at all stop him. Remind him this is your equipment, it's expensive and gee, it would be a shame if he ended up paying for it. I'm not kidding, I didn't have to do that but I was prepared to.

Don't allow him to leave until after the install you go through ALL the channels with him on both cards. You will see how to do that when you test install.

Good luck. I had the Supervisors direct number that did my install but he doesn't handle my area anymore and I see your on the West side so I don't have any idea of who handles your installs. Once you get through this episode you will be glad you got an S3. :)

OK..calm down. relax. Hookbill is here. :)
Hilarious Hookbill! Exactly what I needed to hear. Feeling much better now... :)

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll be sure to update the outcome (assuming he actually comes back out today and didn't get too scared off this morning).

Has anyone been on the TW backorder list for HD DVRs ? I called on Jan 30 to order one and was told it would be a 4 week wait. 4 weeks after that I called and was told it would be another 4 weeks. So, after 8 weeks total, I called and was told that they had no idea of when they would be in. It has now been 10 weeks and I haven't heard a peep. Has anyone had one installed recently ? If so, how long did you have to wait ?

On a totally unrelated note, I've just jumped in to hd with both feet and purchased two tvs (on LG, the other Toshiba). I find it kind of funny that the local Fox station in HD (tuned by the TVs hooked up to the cable with no STB) is on different channels on the different tvs. I think on the LG it is 104-3 and on the Toshiba it is 104-1. Is this normal ?

Thanks,
dan

Has anyone been on the TW backorder list for HD DVRs ? I called on Jan 30 to order one and was told it would be a 4 week wait. 4 weeks after that I called and was told it would be another 4 weeks. So, after 8 weeks total, I called and was told that they had no idea of when they would be in. It has now been 10 weeks and I haven't heard a peep. Has anyone had one installed recently ? If so, how long did you have to wait ?


Thanks,
dan

Dan,

I discovered that I could actually lower my cable bill by switching to digital cable, and when I called I was also told it would be a 4 week wait for an 8300. I did not want to wait for a truck, just to install a non-HD DVR cable box, so I told them I would go to the local office and pick up the box myself.

When I got to the counter, I told the girl I really wanted the 8300. She said that they just got a few in, and gave me one.

If you live near a local office, stop in and ask for one. I suspect they keep a few around because it is easier to say no to someone on the phone than in person.

Chris.

This is just a theory guys. I believe in June The FCC requires Cable has to use DVR boxes that have cable cards. So they probably don't want to issue anymore SA 8300's.

The cable DVR will have a two way cable card which will allow it to be used for things like On Demand and such. I believe that current DVR owners will not have to turn in their boxes, they will only be available to new orders.

So this may be the reason why your seeing a shortage in these boxes. Best bet is to go to the local office and hope they have some available.

Or you can purchase a TiVo S3. :)

Well my TW cable upgrade ended up going very well after getting off to a rough start this morning. I'm happy to report that the Cablecard setup in the S3 went off without a hitch. We simply followed the instructions to the letter. So far so good. I am very happy with TW cable on the S3. And this is coming from a long time D* sub.

And to the poster wondering about TW HD DVR availability. I scheduled today's service call last Friday. I explicitly asked for an HD set top box (not a dvr). The installer brought out an HD DVR (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore. They had no regular HD STBs anywhere in the warehouse. This is West Side Cleveland. Sounds like some of these different metropolitan offices need to share some inventory.

Well my TW cable upgrade ended up going very well after getting off to a rough start this morning. I'm happy to report that the Cablecard setup in the S3 went off without a hitch. We simply followed the instructions to the letter. So far so good. I am very happy with TW cable on the S3. And this is coming from a long time D* sub.

And to the poster wondering about TW HD DVR availability. I scheduled today's service call last Friday. I explicitly asked for an HD set top box (not a dvr). The installer brought out an HD DVR (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore. They had no regular HD STBs anywhere in the warehouse. This is West Side Cleveland. Sounds like some of these different metropolitan offices need to share some inventory.

First I'm glad to hear your install went well. Congratulations, you have the best High Definition DVR on the market.

From what I learned about TW/Adelphia it's all like they are their own small separate companies. Each seems to have a different view of customer service and how they go about doing things. For example when I was serviced out of the Macedonia office I got top notch techs,, including my TiVo cable card install. Now I'm served out of another office and I could see the difference in the techs attitudes. Kind of, you can't tell me anything, I'm the TECH...hey!

Also I got a new customer service number now and I believe I'm talking to people in North Canton. These CSR's are much better trained then the one's out of Cleveland. They understand cable cards, how they work, the difference between one way and two way cards, even have an idea about how the S3 works.

Anyway have fun playing with your S3. Make sure your software is up to date you should be running 8.1 now. If your still running anything less force a call or two.

First I'm glad to hear your install went well. Congratulations, you have the best High Definition DVR on the market.



You've really sparked my interest hookbill... I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but..

I'm a Dish Network customer and while I cursed off cable many years ago for satellite, I've at times considered what cable could offer me. I really like the Dish DVR and it's the main reason I'm still with them.

What HD channels do you get with TWC here in Cleveland? What are the options for HD DVRs? Do they generally just give out the SA 8300? Is there dual tuners so you can record one show while watching another (or record 2 shows and watch a recorded program)?

Thanks to anyone that can help me with any of this. Cheers.

Transmitter Coverage Maps for Google Earth

I don't see that anyone has posted this information here about the sticky thread in the HDTV Hardware Reception forum with very useful coverage maps for analog and digital TV stations and translators. The kmz files have been revised and now expanded for files covering the top 20 DMAs, including Cleveland. These files combined with Google Earth are a neat tool to see what the reception strength is for each station if you zoom down to your neighborhood or your street and flip through the stations. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480 if you are interested.

Thanks for the link. I found that information interesting, so I saved some of the images. It took a while for me to get the needed updates for my computer, but here are some quick links. These images show the coverage areas for some of our local digital stations and are very detailed!!


WOIO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WOIO-DT.jpg


WEWS-DT:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WEWS-DT.jpg


WKYC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WKYC-DT.jpg
WJW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WJW-DT.jpg
WDLI-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WDLI-DT.jpg
WFMJ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WFMJ-DT.jpg
WKBN-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WKBN-DT.jpg
WUAB-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WUAB-DT.jpg
WEAO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WEAO-DT.jpg
WBNX-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WBNX-DT.jpg
WQHS-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WQHS-DT.jpg
WOAC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WOAC-DT.jpg

To PBS 45&49:
The video on your Ohio Channel subchannel (49.3) is only showing a test pattern. The audio is there, but the video is not.

The installer brought out an HD DVR (Motorola DCT6416), saying that was all they had anymore.
I've never heard of that unit. We've seen the SA8000 and the SA8300 from Adelphia, and now T/W. Is the Motorola unit preferable to either of the SA units?

Edit: In an attempt to answer my own question, I looked up some info on the 6416. It appears to have the same basic features as the SA units, except that it has an integrated cable modem built in. But it has only a 120GB disk drive, and no obvious way to expand its storage. So I see more disadvantages than advantages.

Another report (not from Motorola) suggests that the latest versions of this unit have upgraded to a 160GB disk and added a SATA port, making it quite comparable to the 8300. However, the notes that I've seen suggest that the external SATA port is not active on the 6416 (however, that was almost a year ago).

Anyone know more?

I've never heard of that unit. We've seen the SA8000 and the SA8300 from Adelphia, and now T/W. Is the Motorola unit preferable to either of the SA units?

Edit: In an attempt to answer my own question, I looked up some info on the 6416. It appears to have the same basic features as the SA units, except that it has an integrated cable modem built in. But it has only a 120GB disk drive, and no obvious way to expand its storage. So I see more disadvantages than advantages.

Another report (not from Motorola) suggests that the latest versions of this unit have upgraded to a 160GB disk and added a SATA port, making it quite comparable to the 8300. However, the notes that I've seen suggest that the external SATA port is not active on the 6416 (however, that was almost a year ago).

Anyone know more?

Both are a pos. If you however are in SA 8300 area, you can't switch to the Motorola box. I suspect he was a former Comcast customer to have that box.

To PBS 45&49:
The video on your Ohio Channel subchannel (49.3) is only showing a test pattern. The audio is there, but the video is not.

If anyone sees a problem with 45 or 49, call 330.677.4549... 24/7. Their answering service will contact engineering after hours.

Please do not jump all over me but..... what is a cable card. I have had D* so long I do not know anything about cable TV's technology. Do you have to have it to hook up the HD DVR?

You've really sparked my interest hookbill... I don't know if this is the right forum for this, but..

I'm a Dish Network customer and while I cursed off cable many years ago for satellite, I've at times considered what cable could offer me. I really like the Dish DVR and it's the main reason I'm still with them.

What HD channels do you get with TWC here in Cleveland? What are the options for HD DVRs? Do they generally just give out the SA 8300? Is there dual tuners so you can record one show while watching another (or record 2 shows and watch a recorded program)?

Thanks to anyone that can help me with any of this. Cheers.

Dish has more HD channels then TW. With TW however you don't rely on OTA for locals. TW has premium channels available, 4 locals ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, WVIZ HD,TNT HD, INHD, and STOHD, plus Cavs in HD.

Generally they give out the SA 8300, but as you can see there seems to be some problems with that at this time. It does have dual tuner but keep this in mind:

Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo.

I say this to you because if you switch to a regular cable DVR you will be terribly disappointed. Now if your thinking about switching and purchasing an TiVo S3, that is a different story. It will be costly but that would be the only way I would recommend you switch at this time.

If you get a notice from Dish saying we need to switch your DVR, you will know why now. :)

Andrew K:
Very nice pictures.
JJK

Please do not jump all over me but..... what is a cable card. I have had D* so long I do not know anything about cable TV's technology. Do you have to have it to hook up the HD DVR?

If you have a television that has an HD tuner built in and you want to hook it up to cable you will have to install a cable card. It looks just like a credit card type thing and you put it in the slot. It allows the tuner to receive HD and encoded digital signals.

The S3 TiVo has two tuners so that requires two cable cards. In the future all DVR's will require cable cards (except the one's that are already in people's homes).

Dish has more HD channels then TW. With TW however you don't rely on OTA for locals. TW has premium channels available, 4 locals ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD, WVIZ HD,TNT HD, INHD, and STOHD, plus Cavs in HD.



What do you mean by "rely on over the air channels".? I am a current Massillon cable subscriber and I really want STO in HD. They do not carry it and being a very small independent company aren't pursuing it at this time. I am considering directTV as an alternative as they claim to have STO and FSN in HD plus all the current channels I have in HD. They also claim to have local channels in HD. The big 4 are listed. I do not want to have to pull these in OTA as I am well outside the area. Does DirectTV have the 4 local channels in HD without me adding an antenna?

Thanks.

icicle22,
Before you jump to D*, you better call them and make sure you can get STO in your zip code. D* has unfairly "blacked out" some area zip codes. Unfortunately STO has recently redesigned their website and I can't find the list of providers or zip codes anymore. I shot STO an email to complain about this.

Also, if you are very picky about your HD picture quality, I think you will be disappointed in D*'s HD quality. I hear the MPEG4 locals are as good as OTA, but I can tell you DiscoveryHD, HDNet and the other HDs still running on D*'s "old" MPEG2 technology are not as good as my Wide Open West cable feed.

What do you mean by "rely on over the air channels".? I am a current Massillon cable subscriber and I really want STO in HD. They do not carry it and being a very small independent company aren't pursuing it at this time. I am considering directTV as an alternative as they claim to have STO and FSN in HD plus all the current channels I have in HD. They also claim to have local channels in HD. The big 4 are listed. I do not want to have to pull these in OTA as I am well outside the area. Does DirectTV have the 4 local channels in HD without me adding an antenna?

Thanks.

Yes, I was talking about Dish not Direct TV. To the best of my knowledge Dish still does not offer locals. If I'm wrong on this, and I could be someone will correct me. :) As to whether Direct TV offers STO in your area I can't tell you. In most of the areas around Cleveland it does, in some of the outlying areas it doesn't.

I am in Stark County about 10 miles south of Akron so I am thinking DTV should get me STO.....but who knows.

I am picky about my HD quality too. I really don't want to go to DTV because I have heard horror stories of the quality. I have had both TWC and Massillon cable so my only exposure to HD has been cable based and I have to say I am noy unhappy with the quality. It is the lack of channels, particularly FSN and STO in HD that I long for. I am just not sure if the positive of getting these channels is negated by the loss in quality in HD across the board.

Both are a pos. If you however are in SA 8300 area, you can't switch to the Motorola box. I suspect he was a former Comcast customer to have that box.
You are correct Hookbill, I was a former Comcast customer. And unfortunately I have never used the 8300 so I cannot offer a comparison.

I am a hugh Tivo fan boy (left D* because of it), but I'll share my first impression of the DCT6416 with you. It honestly wasn't that bad. The learning curve from Tivo to the DCT6416 was easier than my attempt to go from Tivo to the D* HR20. Even my wife agreed with me on this point. It has a much more utilitarian feel to it than the S3. But all in all, as long as it continues to record what I tell it to, I think I'll be fairly satisfied with it. And for the one year price of $3.72/mo., it should serve well as our second TV DVR.

I am picky about my HD quality too. I really don't want to go to DTV because I have heard horror stories of the quality....I am just not sure if the positive of getting these channels is negated by the loss in quality in HD across the board.

If that is a concern for you I would suggest looking for an in store demo or something similar (friend's house, etc) where you can see what the quality looks like to your eyes.

Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo.

If you get a notice from Dish saying we need to switch your DVR, you will know why now. :)

Thanks hookbill. I was actually looking for info on TWC services and equipment, not a history of corporate litigations. I'm aware of the situation with TiVo and the Dish DVR.

Having been a former TiVo subscriber, I can fairly judge the Dish DVR and it works very well for me (though I did miss the TiVo Recommends at first). I'll probably have to pass on the switch to cable as my wife and I watch a lot of Food Network HD & there are a couple other HD channels that I regularly record not available on TWC.

If that is a concern for you I would suggest looking for an in store demo or something similar (friend's house, etc) where you can see what the quality looks like to your eyes.

I'll agree with you about going to a friends house but a store comparison for HD? Absolutely not.

Terry, you know as well as I do those things are not even amaturely (is that a word?) calibrated. How in the world can you do a comparison in store?

It sucks when you are on the cutting edge. I have no friends who have HD yet to even compare!

Anyway, the general problem with D* HD is that it is bit starved, right? So action sequences and fast changes will cause macro-blocking? What about the resolution? Is that also compromised?

It's sad but I normally like to support the "little" guy but in this case, Massillon Cable it quite honest that are not even looking to add any new HD channels this year. They are focused on pushing their new "digital phone" and that is keeping them busy. Since they are a small company, all their resources are poured into that for now.

But they are the only game in town for now as far as cable goes. My only alternative is Sattelite and that is sounding bad.

Try Dish Network icicle... More HD channels than anyone else and a HD DVR that can control 2 TVs!

Unfortunately you'll need an OTA antenna because they have no locals in our market... Which is actually nice to have because you will be getting the best signal possible! They also do not have STO or FSN-Ohio in HD yet either... so you'll have to watch Indians in SD and watch the Cavs on National HD when they are on.

I only point out these negatives because I don't want to mislead you on their services at all.

Anyway, the general problem with D* HD is that it is bit starved, right? So action sequences and fast changes will cause macro-blocking? What about the resolution? Is that also compromised?


Yes, bit starved and down-rezzed. The satellite companies chop 1920x1080 (1080i) down to something like 1440x1080 or 1220x1080 and then bit-starve it. I think they leave 1280x720 (720p) alone, but they have been known to bit-starve it. Seems that Dish does it to a lesser degree than DirecTV. All you need do is look in the HDTV Programming forum for posts from HDTVFanatic - he monitors the DirecTV and Dish satellite feeds on a regular basis and reports on the bandwidth and downrezzing issues.

Also consider DirecTV is launching new satellites this summer, and that may or may not fix their HD issues. They also claim they'll have 100 national HD channels by the end of the year. We shall see. There's no easy choice.

(in response to the Dish Network plug.....)

Thanks for the advice but seeing as the main reason I am thinking of switching from Massillon Cable is the lack of STO and FSN in HD....it doesn't make a lot of sense.

They currently have all 4 cleveland networks in HD
ESPN
ESPN2
TNT
Discovery HD
HDnet
HDnet movies
Universal HD
HBO HD
Showtime HD

I get STO and FSN but not in HD. So it would be a lateral move. Direct TV would have all of these plus STO and FSN in HD.

I am not sure but it looks like NFL network too. Plus any HD you get through buying special packages.

Truth be told I'd probably have switched by now if it weren't for the outrageous upfront cost of the HD-DVR. I currently have 2 of these through Massillon cable too.

Thanks!

(in response to the Dish Network plug.....)


Truth be told I'd probably have switched by now if it weren't for the outrageous upfront cost of the HD-DVR. I currently have 2 of these through Massillon cable too.

Thanks!

Well, the reason you say that is because you haven't experienced a real good DVR. I don't think Dish's DVR is the best but it is better then what you have.

If your happy with your current DVR that's fine. But if you came over to my house and saw what my S3 can do, you might be a bit shocked. :)

Your current DVR has software in it that has been stolen from TiVo. This has been decided by the courts as to how this will all come out that's still up in the air but at sometime something will happen that will either change your DVR or Dish will have to shell out a huge sum of money to TiVo. The software was not "stolen" from TiVO, the functionality of an E* DVR is too similar to a TiVO from the courts perspective. The court was wrong and I believe the decision will be overturned on appeal.

There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive. The fact that both Tivo and E* can pause and replay live TV is the only similarity. How it's accomplished is quite different. If E* does not win the appeal, your cable DVR's may soon suffer the same fate (unless your cable boox is already a Tivo brand).

What ever happened to competition in the U.S.A.? There were other devices doing the same thing as TiVO (anyone remember "Replay TV"?) You can also use your PC to dothe same thing with an ATI All-In-Wonder card, as well as several other brands. TiVO needs to get a life and stop bullying their way into market share. E* had a device that did everythig a TiVO did in 1999 (the Dishplayer). So for the courts to say that E* stole anything from Tivo is a stretch.

I'll agree with you about going to a friends house but a store comparison for HD? Absolutely not.

Terry, you know as well as I do those things are not even amaturely (is that a word?) calibrated. How in the world can you do a comparison in store?

Well, for one things like macroblocking and resolution shouldn't be all that much affected by color levels and such. Secondly you always have the option to play with the settings on the TV in the store. Not to mention there are home theater stores where you may have a good chance of a well calibrated display.

I'm not saying it's the best option (especially due to the variability of display technologies and qualities), but it should give people some idea of the picture quality of the source.

There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive.

Sorry, but that is a gross over generalization. The DirecTiVos and the S3 can record digital as digital.

I'm referring to TiVO's patents, which the courts claim E* infringed. There were no DirecTiVo's or S3's in 1999 when the Dishplayer came out. If anything, the DirecTiVo's and S3's may be infringing on an E* patent!

Thanks for the link. I found that information interesting, so I saved some of the images. It took a while for me to get the needed updates for my computer, but here are some quick links. These images show the coverage areas for some of our local digital stations and are very detailed!!


WOIO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WOIO-DT.jpg


WEWS-DT:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WEWS-DT.jpg


WKYC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WKYC-DT.jpg
WJW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WJW-DT.jpg
WDLI-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WDLI-DT.jpg
WFMJ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WFMJ-DT.jpg
WKBN-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WKBN-DT.jpg
WUAB-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WUAB-DT.jpg
WEAO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WEAO-DT.jpg
WBNX-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WBNX-DT.jpg
WQHS-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WQHS-DT.jpg
WOAC-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WOAC-DT.jpg
What an eye-opener. WOIO barely gets out of the antenna farm with a hot signal, whle WEWS covers a much larger area with a strong signal.

And the cheepos at WOIO want to stay on rf 10????

Since you've included WKBN & WFMJ, could you also add WYTV to the "Photobucket"? Thanks!

What an eye-opener. WOIO barely gets out of the antenna farm with a hot signal, whle WEWS covers a much larger area with a strong signal.

And the cheepos at WOIO want to stay on rf 10????

Since you've included WKBN & WFMJ, could you also add WYTV to the "Photobucket"? Thanks!

Yes, that was my point to show how measely WOIO's digital signal really is. The blue and purple colors show the areas where the signal is really weak but may be possible with an outdoor antenna. White, red, orange, yellow, and green represent the good areas where an indoor antenna is all that is really needed, and cyan represents areas that require an outdoor antenna. This program is cool because you can zoom in as far as your neighborhood, and it takes terrain and all transmitter information into account.

Here are some more pictures I've added of WYTV and a few neighboring DTV stations (Erie, Pittsburgh, and Columbus aren't available yet)...

WYTV-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WYTV-DT.jpg
WNEO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WNEO-DT.jpg

WTOL-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WTOL-DT.jpg
WTVG-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WTVG-DT.jpg
WNWO-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WNWO-DT.jpg
WGTE-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WGTE-DT.jpg
WUPW-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WUPW-DT.jpg
WJBK-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WJBK-DT.jpg

Future WMFD-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WMFD-DT.jpg
Future WVIZ-DT: http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WVIZ-DT.jpg

The software was not "stolen" from TiVO, the functionality of an E* DVR is too similar to a TiVO from the courts perspective. The court was wrong and I believe the decision will be overturned on appeal.

There is a major difference between the E* and TiVO DVR: a TiVO takes an analog input and digitizes it for recording on an hard drive. An E* DVR OTOH takes a digital signal and records it to a hard drive. The fact that both Tivo and E* can pause and replay live TV is the only similarity. How it's accomplished is quite different. If E* does not win the appeal, your cable DVR's may soon suffer the same fate (unless your cable boox is already a Tivo brand).

What ever happened to competition in the U.S.A.? There were other devices doing the same thing as TiVO (anyone remember "Replay TV"?) You can also use your PC to dothe same thing with an ATI All-In-Wonder card, as well as several other brands. TiVO needs to get a life and stop bullying their way into market share. E* had a device that did everythig a TiVO did in 1999 (the Dishplayer). So for the courts to say that E* stole anything from Tivo is a stretch.

Innocent until proven guilty. They were found guilty. Everyone appeals. Remember how many times Microsoft appealled to no avail?

I noticed that NBC national news (3.1) went to HD on OTA recently.
JJK

Hookbill,

Will the S3 work with Direct TV? Will it work with cable? You are right that I have only had exposure to the SA8000, SA8300 and currently the Motorola 6414. All of these have worked fine with the rare exception that I occassionally have to power cycle them because they get squirelly. But all 3 have always recorded everything I told it to.


The issue is I rent these for like 5 bucks a month with no long term agreement. With DirectTV I would have to pay $299 for their HD DVR and then still pay a lease fee? What if I cancel the service after a year? Do I have to return it?

I am not doubting that the S3 has features that I'd like, so my comment was less on that and more to do with the fact that D* requires a significant upfront cost just to get setup for HD DVR service. So everytime I think I have convimced myself that I am going to go D*, the upfront cost stops me.



Well, the reason you say that is because you haven't experienced a real good DVR. I don't think Dish's DVR is the best but it is better then what you have.

If your happy with your current DVR that's fine. But if you came over to my house and saw what my S3 can do, you might be a bit shocked. :)

(in response to the Dish Network plug.....)

Thanks for the advice but seeing as the main reason I am thinking of switching from Massillon Cable is the lack of STO and FSN in HD....it doesn't make a lot of sense.




Sorry. I didn't read that far back... That is a tough call. You can go with DirecTV, but like you said, the upfront cost of equipment is sometimes discouraging. It might be worth it though, because they are going to get over 100 national HD channels that aren't even broadcasted!! :confused:

Hookbill,

Will the S3 work with Direct TV? Will it work with cable? You are right that I have only had exposure to the SA8000, SA8300 and currently the Motorola 6414. All of these have worked fine with the rare exception that I occassionally have to power cycle them because they get squirelly. But all 3 have always recorded everything I told it to.


The issue is I rent these for like 5 bucks a month with no long term agreement. With DirectTV I would have to pay $299 for their HD DVR and then still pay a lease fee? What if I cancel the service after a year? Do I have to return it?

I am not doubting that the S3 has features that I'd like, so my comment was less on that and more to do with the fact that D* requires a significant upfront cost just to get setup for HD DVR service. So everytime I think I have convimced myself that I am going to go D*, the upfront cost stops me.

The S3 works woth cable and over the air only. In addition with the S3 you would not only pay more for your DVR, right now I believe the cheapest you can get them at is 600.00, you would also have to pay either a monthly fee, yearly fee, or multiple yearly fee. Monthly fee I believe is around 13 bucks. :eek:

It really doesn't sound like it's what you want since cost is a big concern for you.

At one time D* used TiVo software and you can still buy these HD units and Direct TV will activate them and support them. However there will still be a small monthly charge for using the 'service." I believe that model is the HR10-250. Also that model requires an antenna because it is not capable of receiving D*'s locals in HD.

The reason most people do a purchase the S3 is either they have used TiVo before in the past and want to continue to use their outstanding features, or like me the quality and problems of their cable DVR were just so overwhelming they are willing to pay for something that is reliable.

Anyone have some audio sync issues with WEWS? It's more noticeable at some times than others.. First noticed it on Sunday night and then again last night... Delayed through receiver AND display.

Anyone have some audio sync issues with WEWS? It's more noticeable at some times than others.. First noticed it on Sunday night and then again last night... Delayed through receiver AND display.

Yes.

I've noticed this problem since they went to Dolby 5.1 full time. I also see it a bit on one or two of the shows I've recorded.

As far as the news itself it seems that the out of synch issue is more prominent when they do non studio shots.

Having previously used equipment from Adelphia, D*, E* and TiVo I came to a verdict on which one I will be sticking with. And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others. :p

The inital cost of the DVR is recouped in 10 months with the credit you will receive on your monthly bill following your purchase. The interface, functionality, control, number of inputs and 2-TV per 1 box of the ViP622 makes this box my choice above others.

As for RSN's and Local's in HD..... Keep your fingers crossed. I have a feeling Cleveland's next on the list. If you choose D*, you will become accustomed to the waiting game..... :D

And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others. :p

The inital cost of the DVR is recouped in 10 months with the credit you will receive on your monthly bill following your purchase. The interface, functionality, control, number of inputs and 2-TV per 1 box of the ViP622 makes this box my choice above others.

I second this. The box is not perfect (some menu choices are not optimized) but it is darn close. The skip forward/backward buttons are genious, missing from my old TiVo. The integration of OTA and satellite is very nice, great searching, extremely fast.

I also agree that Cleveland (FOXOH-HD, etc) has to be up on E*s list somewhere. I hope so anyway, because I will shed a tear if I have to give up the vip622 due to a lack of programming.

Having previously used equipment from Adelphia, D*, E* and TiVo I came to a verdict on which one I will be sticking with. And with all things considered I will have to put E*s ViP622 HD DVR above ALL others. :p



You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best. And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.

Thanks. I am not really looking for any new features or anything from the DVR. I would be happy with a little more storage however. I am thinking I might just stick with Massillon Cable for now and deal with the Tribe in SD. The Cavs are almost done and the playoffs will all be on major networks in HD anyway. This will give D* time to get their new sattelites up and really prove me wrong about them....


The S3 works woth cable and over the air only. In addition with the S3 you would not only pay more for your DVR, right now I believe the cheapest you can get them at is 600.00, you would also have to pay either a monthly fee, yearly fee, or multiple yearly fee. Monthly fee I believe is around 13 bucks. :eek:

It really doesn't sound like it's what you want since cost is a big concern for you.

At one time D* used TiVo software and you can still buy these HD units and Direct TV will activate them and support them. However there will still be a small monthly charge for using the 'service." I believe that model is the HR10-250. Also that model requires an antenna because it is not capable of receiving D*'s locals in HD.

The reason most people do a purchase the S3 is either they have used TiVo before in the past and want to continue to use their outstanding features, or like me the quality and problems of their cable DVR were just so overwhelming they are willing to pay for something that is reliable.

The skip forward/backward buttons are genious, missing from my old TiVo.

Wow thanks! How did I forget to mention that? I don't know how I would live without the 30 second skip forward and the 10 second skip back button. Seems simple enough, but no other provider has those buttons programmed into their remotes.

You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best.

No I never had the S3. Have you tried the ViP622?

I realize after countless posts on how you favor the TiVo S3 over all others you may be a bit biased, but why would I shell out $600+ and excessive monthly fees for to replace a box that I am perfectly happy with. And upon researching, I think the ViP is MORE capable of suiting my needs than the S3!

And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.

Give it up already.....

Wow thanks! How did I forget to mention that? I don't know how I would live without the 30 second skip forward and the 10 second skip back button. Seems simple enough, but no other provider has those buttons programmed into their remotes.

TiVo has a 30 second skip and tick. You program it into the TiVo by pressing Select, Play, Select,3,0,Select. Then the >I gives you 30 seconds forward and it winds back a couple of seconds as well. :)

You may have had TiVo in the past but you never had the S3. If the TiVo's you had in the past were not HD or even dual channle, of course you are going to say that E's DVD is best. And don't forget they stole TiVo's software to make that thing.

If it were not for one issue, I would have switched from D* and my HD Tivo to WOW and the S3.

The S3 may become an expensive door stop. Its current cable card version is only one way communications (i.e., no ordering of specials, etc.). I could live with that; but there is a bigger issue. Comcast has already implemented in many areas, and the other cable companies may follow, a technology called switched video (objective is to free up bandwith). It sends only a limited (read very popular) number of channels to each home. Others are at a "switch" and downloaded to a specific homes only upon request. This requires two way communications.

Given the S3's limit of one way communications (because of the current version of cable card), it will not work with the new technology. If/when your cable company implements the new technology, your S3 becomes basically useless except for a limited number of channels. The upgrade to two way communications is not a firmware upgrade!

If/when a new cable card (2 way) is approved and implemented in the S3, I may make the change. Not before.

No I never had the S3. Have you tried the ViP622?

I realize after countless posts on how you favor the TiVo S3 over all others you may be a bit biased, but why would I shell out $600+ and excessive monthly fees for to replace a box that I am perfectly happy with. And upon researching, I think the ViP is MORE capable of suiting my needs than the S3!

No I haven't but I didn't make the comparison, you did. And I'm telling you can't add TiVo in that loop unless you've seen the S3. I know for a fact however that the S3 is better simply based on the fact that the S3 is THX certified, which the Vip622 isn't. This certification requires that the DVR meet certain standards. Second can your Vip622 give you Yahoo weather, Local traffic? Can it play music from your computer? You do have Pay per view which the S3 doesn't have but the S3 has Amazon Unbox so you can download movies directly from Amazon to your S3.

And no, I absolutely don't think you should shell out money on a DVR your happy with. I do tell you however that there may be changes in the near future. That 30 second skip you like so much? That may be going away if Dish has to change out their boxes.

Give it up already.....

I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.

If it were not for one issue, I would have switched from D* and my HD Tivo to WOW and the S3.

The S3 may become an expensive door stop. Its current cable card version is only one way communications (i.e., no ordering of specials, etc.). I could live with that; but there is a bigger issue. Comcast has already implemented in many areas, and the other cable companies may follow, a technology called switched video (objective is to free up bandwith). It sends only a limited (read very popular) number of channels to each home. Others are at a "switch" and downloaded to a specific homes only upon request. This requires two way communications.

Given the S3's limit of one way communications (because of the current version of cable card), it will not work with the new technology. If/when your cable company implements the new technology, your S3 becomes basically useless except for a limited number of channels. The upgrade to two way communications is not a firmware upgrade

If/when a new cable card (2 way) is approved and implemented in the S3, I may make the change. Not before.

The S3's hardware is not capable of 2 way communication, however it can use the 2 way card. I reference that as a simple fact that 2 way cards work...but only one way. It will NEVER be able to do 2 way communication because the hardware cannot work that way. Plain and simple. I admit that.

OK, SDV. SDV is just barely being talked about by Comcast but your absolutely right they have decided to release it. Time Warner has full blown SDV in Austin Texas and Rochester New York. So how does this effect the S3?

First it does mean that any channel that it on SDV the S3 will not receive. However not every channel is on SDV. In Austin I believe about 100 are, but they also have about 300 channels there. Many of the channels are not the "popular" channels.

It will probably limit the growth of HD channels that you can acquire. So as more HD channels are added with cable on SDV the S3 will not be able to add these channels that are put on SDV. However in our area that is so far off into the future it's hardly worth talking about.

TW has to first pull together all these different ex Adelphia areas and get them on their system so that they all have the same line up. That's going to be tough enough to do but let's just say they pull it off by June. The next trick would be to implement the SDV technology. All of these different ex Adelphia areas are really small cable companies that were absorbed. They would need to bring all of these in line to work with SDV. That's not going to happen, not this year or next year.

Now lets say they did pull it off and I'm wrong. Here's my opinion. Big deal. I'll still have access to the majority of what I want in HD which is locals, they won't put those on SDV. They will still have their analog stations which won't be on SDV. I may loose the Hallmark channel which I record every blue moon but even that is iffy.

The point of SDV isn't to put every channel they have on it. It's to reduce bandwith on digital channels so they can provide more programming. But if you have high demand on certain HD and digital channels, they will not put those on SDV.

My point is the S3 isn't a door stop, it won't be in the future. I will admit it may not be what it is at this moment but it will not be absolutely worthless.

Innocent until proven guilty. They were found guilty. Everyone appeals. Remember how many times Microsoft appealled to no avail?
This is not the same thing as any litigation Microsoft was involved in. Tivo "jury shopped". Had this case been held in another juristiction the "verdict" would have been different. Tivo found a sympathetic (or is that just pathetic) judge.

Here are the cold facts:
1.) E* had a DVR device in 1999 that did just about everything a Tivo did. How many Tivos were on the market in 1999?
2.) E* DVR's (all of them not just some models) record the raw digital datastream off the satellite transponder without any a/d conversion inside the DVR. In fact for an E* DVR to play back the recording you need the smart card to decrypt just as if the data was "live" off the satellite.

The only similarity between Tivo and E* DVR's is the ability to pause & rewind live television programs. How it was done is different - it was not done with "stolen" software, because Tivo software could not record a digital input.

If E* does not win on appeal, all your SA8300's and all other non Tivo DVR's will be next, mark my word!

This case is similar to Ford suing GM over the manufacturing of the automobile.

I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.
The problem with the S3 is that you have to subscribe to {shudder} cable :p
(I guess that make me an E*fanboy) :D

Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.

Thanks

Looks like we will probably have our new channel lineups on April 27. This article mentions they are moving ONN to digital on that day. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18199022&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21849&rfi=6

Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.

Thanks

In order to receive HD channels you will have to have their basic digital tier, and subscribe to basic HD service. There is higher tier for addional HD channels as well.

The problem with the S3 is that you have to subscribe to {shudder} cable :p
(I guess that make me an E*fanboy) :D

Actually I was a fan of D* but at that time I also had D-TiVo so really it was the TiVo software that made me a fan. I tried a couple times to get D* installed in my home but I live in a heavily wooded area and line of sight problems prevent me from getting it. However with the release of the TiVo S3 I wouldn't want D* now anyway.

I've considered E* in the past but from what I understand I would still have the same line of sight problems.

I'm going to make it a mini mission of mine today to kind of take a look at WEWS, probably when their noon news cast comes on and check out the voice synch. Last night it was so bad on the 5 and 6 O'clock news I couldn't take it and I was just glancing at it from time to time. I can't believe they don't know they are experiencing problems. I think I saw it on "Wheel of Fortune" as well.

Looks like we will probably have our new channel lineups on April 27. This article mentions they are moving ONN to digital on that day. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18199022&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21849&rfi=6

It appears I'm in that area of change as well. I suspect from the statement however that it's just the one channel, not the entire lineup. They mentioned that ONN is already on the digital tier in the other Time Warner areas.

Perhaps their plan is first to get all of ex Adelphia on the same channels, then after that make the big switch to their TW networks.

Whatever they decide to do when that time comes I suspect that I will have a more difficult time with it because of the S3. On the TiVo boards they were talking about the switch out in L.A. It took a couple of days to get it straightened out.

Just noticed last night that TWC Akron finally added ESPN2HD to their HD tier. Hopefully that is the first of several new HD channels this year. I'm hoping Versus will be next(and soon).

I know for a fact however that the S3 is better simply based on the fact that the S3 is THX certified, which the Vip622 isn't.
How much current programming that is broadcast on TV is even outputing content that is THX certified? Seems like overkill. I am happy with my Digital Optical Out and Dolby Digital...
Second can your Vip622 give you Yahoo weather, Local traffic?
Isn't that what the weather channel, newspaper, constant radio updates and barometers are for? Sorry, I don't fire up my system to check the weather! :eek:
Can it play music from your computer?
I can easily hookup an I-Pod to my receiver. Same concept. Also, E*s programming package includes endless amounts of Sirius Music channels. Sounds fantastic! And I don't even have to jump through hoops to stream from one source to another!
You do have Pay per view which the S3 doesn't have but the S3 has Amazon Unbox so you can download movies directly from Amazon to your S3.
Honestly, how often have you downloaded a movie from Amazon's Unbox? Just curious, is the PQ any better than SD? Any HD downloads available? Seems like a waste!
And no, I absolutely don't think you should shell out money on a DVR your happy with. I do tell you however that there may be changes in the near future. That 30 second skip you like so much? That may be going away if Dish has to change out their boxes.
You're really adamant on this arn't you? Other's here disagree. I'm not worried about it eaither. I like Michael's assimilation to Ford suing GM over the manufacturing of automobiles. Besides isn't TiVo the one copying E* here? Without a hack, you wouldn't have the 30 second skip! :p
I don't deny that I'm a TiVo fanboy, but facts are facts. I"m sorry if my post about the fact that E* upsets you but I love the S3 and I won't quit talking about it.
I'm not upset. Far from it. I just love my ViP. Apparently I am not alone on this either. CNet, upon comparing to D* HR20 and the S3, awarded the ViP622 it's highly distinguished editor's choice award among HD DVR's! :D

Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels? Their web site makes no mention of it and I can't find any recent posts to confirm it. I think it is available but it's hush-hush on the web site because they don't want you to know you can get HD for so little. I have the E* vip622 so I'm still waiting on locals and all I can get OTA is basically 5.1 and 8.1. I live in Fairlawn right by Akron so 3.1 and PBSHD are too weak.

Thanks

As I remember it in Canton, I had to have digital cable and their digital receiver in order to get the OTA local HD channels, and then if you wanted ALL the HD channels they offer, you had to pay another $ 8.00 a month for their HD tier.

Does anyone know if Time Warner Lifeline Basic service includes local HD channels?

It probably doesn't at this time as the filter that you probably have installed on your line (to block the "expanded basic" analog channels) would filter out the frequencies in which the digital locals are carried and they aren't required to provide these channels on this level of service. If you have a QAM capable tuner in your HDTV I would recommend trying to scan your cable line to see what you can get, you may be surprised.

Then you can always try complaining to the TWC office that they have unfairly blocked the digital locals that should be carried on the most basic tier. This IS NOT a true statement, but they may fall for it with the confusion surrounding the current FCC regulations and take the filter off your line.

Do keep in mind this is assuming you have a QAM capable tuner of your own otherwise you need to subscribe to digital basic and rent a STB from TWC.

TiVo, SchmiVo....

There are some things from the TiVo I miss (mostly just the TiVo recommends). But I own the ViP622 now and the fact that it can record 3 things at once (2 Sat/1 OTA tuner) and provides service to TWO sets (both HD), seals the deal for me.

Yahoo Weather & Traffic??? Who the hell cares.. look outside! The S3, like all TiVo products, are not directly associated with any provider. It is continually brought up that TiVo's technology was stolen and will be terminated on E* boxes... but how long do you think cable will allow TiVo boxes to work with their service? Do you think they aren't thinking about how D* pushed TiVo aside and is reaping the benefits of manufacturing their own boxes?

As the technology changes for E*, the ViP622 changes as well. The equipment is not held at bay by the provider because they are the same. TiVo has made a great name for itself and brought the DVR to the forefront, but how long will they be able to evolve in the market? Will people continue to pay a separate monthly bill for the same service they can get from their provider at half the cost? I suspect that TiVo and it's subscribers pray that the cable conglomerate wise up and just by TiVo.

Unfortunately for me, my biggest problem is that no provider offers all the programming I want. I thought about a switch to cable, but they lack several of the channels I really want. D* is missing only a couple but their technology is not very desirable. I will stick with E* and hope that they add the RSNs and locals. For now I will watch my OTA and SD RSNs.

I own the ViP622 now and the fact that it can record 3 things at once (2 Sat/1 OTA tuner) and provides service to TWO sets (both HD), seals the deal for me.


The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.

The S3, like all TiVo products, are not directly associated with any provider. It is continually brought up that TiVo's technology was stolen and will be terminated on E* boxes... but how long do you think cable will allow TiVo boxes to work with their service? Do you think they aren't thinking about how D* pushed TiVo aside and is reaping the benefits of manufacturing their own boxes?

Excellent point.

The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.

I'm intrigued by this dual mode service. Can you explain to me how this works. How are two sets physically hooked up or networked together? And it provides HD on both sets? Very interesting...

The dual mode (service to two sets) is a great convenience with the ability to be able to access TV1's hard drive on TV2. I can't tell you how many times this comes in to play when I watch a recorded program from the comfort of my bed just before I turn in for the night.

On this point you got me. The S3 cannot at this time do multi room viewing but that is because they have not come up with a way of doing this to satisfy CableLabs, which is ran by the evil cable companies. :) However the TiVo S2 can indeed do multiroom viewing...but not HD.

That however will change eventually and the S3 will be able to do multi room viewing....however you will need another TiVo to do it.

Cleveland Rob the Yahoo Traffic is nice if your expecting someone and you want to know what the traffic conditions are. It's right at your fingertips and you can localize it for several locations around town. Unles you can look out your window and see the traffic, I think it's cool. :)

There is also TiVoCast where you can download little mini shows directly from TiVo. I don't use that much but it is there. Also you can purchase movie theater tickets, play games. Just a lot of little extras that quite frankly I could care less about and your right, really no big deal.

Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.

One last thing. I'm not saying E*'s box is a pos. I simply don't believe it's as good as TiVo's S3. And if you guys are happy with it, fine. We're all friends here and I don't want anybody upset about my enthusiasim over my S3 so I'll stop talking about it at this point and if you feel you want to respond please feel free.

I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?

I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?

The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.

I'm intrigued by this dual mode service. Can you explain to me how this works. How are two sets physically hooked up or networked together? And it provides HD on both sets? Very interesting...

Sure.....

E* installers do the standard setup of linking the 2 TV's through a RF wireless transmitter. This small transmitter is connected to one of the coaxial ouputs on TV1. TV1 has has the box. TV2 does not. This saves from multi-tv households from renting an additional box and avoids more clutter in the bedroom. (Considering that's where you choose TV2 to be.)

Upon custom install, TV2 can retrieve all content and can perform just about all functions independently as TV1. However, when viewing live/recorded HD content on TV2, it will be down-converted to SD. Also, depending on screen type, the image isn't cropped to fit TV2. For instance, if TV2 is 4:3 the HD image is left 16:9, so part of the horizontal image is cut off. If TV2 is 16:9, HD viewing will accommodate the full screen while the image is technically down-converted SD. To receive HD on both TV's, like ClevelandRob mentions, this can be achieved by being a bit creative.....

You would run component cables from the ViP's TV1 output to TV2's component input. This would however limit TV2's "live" viewing to whatever is being watched on TV1 if they are both simultaneously in use. For me, this wouldn't be a problem because I could always watch recorded stuff or typically when I go to bed, TV1 is not in use. The idea is that this allows for HD on both sets and with only 1 box!

If I am missing something, please chime in ClevelandRob.....

Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.
Yup. A feature called DishPass allows you to search/record programs that meet a keyword. Such as actor or director. The ViP's standard search allows you to narrow your search by genre and sun-genre. The search history is stored in the memory to enable you to repeat previous searches.

On this point you got me. The S3 cannot at this time do multi room viewing but that is because they have not come up with a way of doing this to satisfy CableLabs, which is ran by the evil cable companies. :) However the TiVo S2 can indeed do multiroom viewing...but not HD.

I have my ViP622 hooked up to my TV2 (32" LCD) via a standard coax. This sends a signal in "dual mode" in which both TVs can watch two things independently including off of the hard drive. Not to miss lead anyone, when viewing in this mode, it is standard def 480i. I ALSO have TV2 hooked up through Component Cable. While in "single mode" I can watch HD on both TVs, but not independently. Not a problem for me as TV2 is in the bedroom and the TVs are rarely both on (maybe once a month or so).



Cleveland Rob the Yahoo Traffic is nice if your expecting someone and you want to know what the traffic conditions are. It's right at your fingertips and you can localize it for several locations around town. Unles you can look out your window and see the traffic, I think it's cool. :)

I guess I'm a little laid back... I don't really care what kinda traffic my company runs into! Maybe if I lived in NYC or LA... to each his own.


Does the E* box provide a wishlist? If it doesn't and you don't know what it is, a wishlist is where TiVo will find a specific movie, actor, director, etc that you may want to see that may not be currently playing. I use it if I think of an old movie I would like to see and if it comes up, TiVo records it for me.

Yes it does. It's called DishPass though. They must have stole that from TiVo ;)


One last thing. I'm not saying E*'s box is a pos. I simply don't believe it's as good as TiVo's S3. And if you guys are happy with it, fine. We're all friends here and I don't want anybody upset about my enthusiasim over my S3 so I'll stop talking about it at this point and if you feel you want to respond please feel free.

Well, I've never owned the S3 and I'm saying it IS a POS! Just kidding... We all have our own opinions and I don't shame anyone for it or resent them. Maybe E* will buy out TiVo during all of the legal crap, then you can punch yourself in the face .

Sure.....

E* installers do the standard setup of linking the 2 TV's through a RF wireless transmitter. This small transmitter is connected to one of the coaxial ouputs on TV1. TV1 has has the box. TV2 does not. This saves from multi-tv households from renting an additional box and avoids more clutter in the bedroom. (Considering that's where you choose TV2 to be.)

Upon custom install, TV2 can retrieve all content and can perform just about all functions independently as TV1. However, when viewing live/recorded HD content on TV2, it will be down-converted to SD. Also, depending on screen type, the image isn't cropped to fit TV2. For instance, if TV2 is 4:3 the HD image is left 16:9, so part of the horizontal image is cut off. If TV2 is 16:9, HD viewing will accommodate the full screen while the image is technically down-converted SD. To receive HD on both TV's, like ClevelandRob mentions, this can be achieved by being a bit creative.....

You would run component cables from the ViP's TV1 output to TV2's component input. This would however limit TV2's "live" viewing to whatever is being watched on TV1 if they are both simultaneously in use. For me, this wouldn't be a problem because I could always watch recorded stuff or typically when I go to bed, TV1 is not in use. The idea is that this allows for HD on both sets and with only 1 box!

If I am missing something, please chime in ClevelandRob.....

Thanks for the explanation. That wireless RF feature sounds like a real nice option. That's awesome that they include it for free.

I have similar capabilities in my house compliments of a system called AVCast. In a nut shell it gives all of the TVs in the house a dedicated channel to tune to that displays the output of one or more av devices (includes IR remote support). The only down side is that it's SD only at this point. Here's a link if anyone is interested.

http://www.crossbarmedia.com/html/media_kit.html

The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.

I've also noticed several times over the past week or so shows that should have been broadcast in HD were simply upconverted programs.

Is this related to the bad equipment or is somebody asleep at the switch in Master Control?

The problem should be fixed by this afternoon. It's an issue with a piece of bad equipment that sends the digital signal to the transmitter.

Yes, I'm seeing that too. Actually I noticed it last night as well as the sound synch being off.

Gary, I left a message at some assistant engineers desk at WEWS. By your message I'm assuming you either work at WEWS or know someone who does. Is this piece of equipment also have something to do with the voice synch as well? It seemed to be part of the voice synch problem while I was watching.

For those of you who are news hounds like me, the NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams recently started broadcasting in hi- def. For some reason, the picture quality doesn't seem as sharp as NBC's Sunday night football broadcasts or other HD programming on the network. Also, only the studio shots are in HD. The reported pieces are either stretched or have the side bars.

Yes, I'm seeing that too. Actually I noticed it last night as well as the sound synch being off.

Gary, I left a message at some assistant engineers desk at WEWS. By your message I'm assuming you either work at WEWS or know someone who does. Is this piece of equipment also have something to do with the voice synch as well? It seemed to be part of the voice synch problem while I was watching.


The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.
The breakup in the picture may or may not be corrected in the next day or two. So far the replacement equipment is not doing what it's supposed to do.
Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and "Boston Legal" to feed in upconverted SD only.

The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.

Any eta when it will fixed. It's just awful distracting.



Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and "Boston Legal" to feed in upconverted SD only.

Blasphemy! Boston Legal in upconvert? That's one of the best looking show's in HD. Where's my phone, I'm calling Denny Crane. :)

Just noticed last night that TWC Akron finally added ESPN2HD to their HD tier. Hopefully that is the first of several new HD channels this year. I'm hoping Versus will be next(and soon).

I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?

I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?

For those of you who wern't with Adelphia in the past ESPN2HD may be new. We've had it for over a year at least. Universal HD is new, I noticed that my HD STB doesn't have any guide data yet so it probably just started up today. My S3 is phoneing in now, I don't know if it will have any knowledge of the station.

I'll bet that if you call customer service right now they probably arn't aware that Universal is even on. KennedyJ since you have an S3 it may be a couple of days before you can get it on the S3.

The lip sync issue is partially due to the addition of 5.1 audio which puts the ABC lip sync in a slightly different mode from local so it still needs some tweaking and is being worked on.
The breakup in the picture may or may not be corrected in the next day or two. So far the replacement equipment is not doing what it's supposed to do.
Finally, the non-HD programming earlier this week was an ABC failure in New York that affected the HD feed to the entire eastern/central/mountain time zones. They fixed it in time for Wednesday morning but it caused "Dancing with the Stars" and "Boston Legal" to feed in upconverted SD only.

Shame on ABC for taking 2 nights to fix the problem.

In the future WEWS may want to run a crawl or put something on their website to let the viewers know what's going on.

Well, Adelphia/Time Warner rolled back the firmware on the 8300 again! I'm back to getting the HDCP error when connecting via HDMI to my receiver then to the TV. The 4th FF/RW speed is also gone.

Why isn't the Indians game being broadcast in HD on DirecTV? They are supposed to be carrying STO in HD from what they said and all Indians homes games are supposed to be HD. What am I missing?

Argee,
Do you have the newer MPEG4 receiver? I think that is required to get STO HD from DirecTV.

On another note, STO really pushed the score bug down to the lower right corner of the 4:3 frame. The balls/strikes/MPH are a bit cut off on my old 4:3 SD CRT TV's. Bring it a little to the left please.... :D IMO they could make the player graphics a bit smaller. Also can't get used to the red/silver who's on base graphic. Half the time I can't remember if red is the man on base or the silver.

Well, Adelphia/Time Warner rolled back the firmware on the 8300 again! I'm back to getting the HDCP error when connecting via HDMI to my receiver then to the TV. The 4th FF/RW speed is also gone.

I have to admit I'm a bit curious about this one. I didn't really understand why they rolled it back the first time because really the problem wasn't with the firmware on the 8300.

Just out of curiosity did you check your diagnostic screen to see what firmware is listed? If you don't know how to do it, press and hold the select button on the box itself and wait until the mail light flashes. Then press info and just scroll the screens until you see the software (firmware) version.

I'm watching it on Channel 96 right now on DirecTV. It isn't in the program guide though, you just have to tune it in. This happened with HD Cavs games sometimes, which were often on without any warning.

The Indians game on STO was HD on WOW cable.

The Indians game on STO was HD on WOW cable.


It was on TW 798 in HD in my area. No problem.

I have to admit I'm a bit curious about this one. I didn't really understand why they rolled it back the first time because really the problem wasn't with the firmware on the 8300.

Just out of curiosity did you check your diagnostic screen to see what firmware is listed? If you don't know how to do it, press and hold the select button on the box itself and wait until the mail light flashes. Then press info and just scroll the screens until you see the software (firmware) version.

1.87.16.1

I don't know why they would have done this. I wasn't having any problems with the new firmware.

1.87.16.1

I don't know why they would have done this. I wasn't having any problems with the new firmware.

It's a mystery to me too. That is the old firmware version. Sorry to hear that.

The good thing about that upgrade was you could play from the beginning while recording. I thought that 4th speed was just too fast and kind of useless.

Yes, I found it. It was on channel 96 but nothing was in the program guide so unless one was lucky or physic, you would have no idea that it was there.

I am having frequent break ups (macroblocking) on WEWS-DT today. Normally I receive the channel rock solid. Is anyone else noticing the same?
WEWS has been macroblocking here for almost a week. The first sign that they were having problems was when the audio started having dropouts. A few days ago I had Nightline on during a segment about Don Imus and the audio just faded out all together for about a minute or so. I flipped to the analog ch 5 and the audio was still there. The very next day the macroblocking began. My signal level is constant (I'm in the antenna farm) however the macroblocking looks similar to the reception I get when WFMJ-DT comes in from Youngstown (unlike WKBN which is near-perfect 24/7).

Unfortunately WYTV is the weakest signal out of Youngstown, so I can't confirm weather they had certain ABC programs in HD.

Last night the 11 PM news on WEWS was in SD. No mention of the technical problems were made - the news staff went on their merry way with HD this and that :p I was able to see a hint of the sidbars along the side of the 4X3 picture when they showed highlights from the Indians game. I wonder if they even knew about the technical problems. They looked foolish to me by not mentioning the problems while continuing to mention HD. That's the danger of "branding" your news with an HD moniker before the technology is perfected.

I've been with TW for less than a week here on the West side of Cleveland. Today I do notice ESPN2HD and Universal HD. Did I miss seeing these channels earlier in the week or are they in fact new additions?

What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?

Last night the 11 PM news on WEWS was in SD. No mention of the technical problems were made - the news staff went on their merry way with HD this and that :p I was able to see a hint of the sidbars along the side of the 4X3 picture when they showed highlights from the Indians game. I wonder if they even knew about the technical problems. They looked foolish to me by not mentioning the problems while continuing to mention HD. That's the danger of "branding" your news with an HD moniker before the technology is perfected.

I left a voice mail at their enginering department telling them that the news is basically unwatchable. I also sent an email. No response.

That to me is an obvious sign that it's broke and they can't figure out how to fix it. I'm surprised that they haven't shut down the Dolby 5.2.

What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?

In my area it's 775.

My S3 will go to that channel but diagnostics tells me it's on a channel with nothing beig being broadcasted.

My HD STB ustairs indicates i sees the cannel but no broadccast data is available.

HOW ABOUT THEM DODGERS! Kicked the behinds of San Dego 9-1. Dodgers look good this year and wouldn't it be grea if they played the Tribe for the Worls Seies? All of you guys could take a shot at me. :)










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I left a voice mail at their enginering department telling them that the news is basically unwatchable. I also sent an email. No response.

That to me is an obvious sign that it's broke and they can't figure out how to fix it. I'm surprised that they haven't shut down the Dolby 5.2.


There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true. :(

What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?

Channel 227

In my area it's 775.

My S3 will go to that channel but diagnostics tells me it's on a channel with nothing beig being broadcasted.

My HD STB ustairs indicates i sees the cannel but no broadccast data is available.
Looks like another, different area, different results thing. I have full guide data and the channel is functioning fine on both my STB and S3.

I found it by going to STO's website, which gave the HD channel number there for DirecTV. I think it has something to do with the method they use to deliver it that keeps the program guide from appearing.

Yes, I found it. It was on channel 96 but nothing was in the program guide so unless one was lucky or physic, you would have no idea that it was there.

There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true. :(
I take it then that the macroblocking I saw originates with the STL? If so that's a relief. I tried readjusting my indoor antenna to no avail. This same antenna works fine for the rest of the Cleveland locals, in fact I keep it centerd on WEWS since from my POV (.8 of a mile ~ESE of the WJW tower) that transmitter is more or less the centrally located stick (at least of the UHF DT's).

There were multiple problems involving the digital transmitter and microwave links. A new exciter for the transmitter is scheduled for delivery/installation today which should (hopefully) fix things. The problems made it necessary to forego any HD on Friday night and upconvert (or downconvert) everything. Let's remember that a lot of the digital equipment is still first generation and is being upgraded as quickly as possible. However, even some of the latest gear ships with problems (not unlike the problems with all the new DirecTV and similar digital receivers). Unfortunately, just because broadcast equipment costs a lot more than consumer equipment doesn't necessarily make it more reliable. Sad but true. :(
I guess they must be working on it now.. Was watching Shark Tale in HD... Then at around 9pm, the signal went out completely.......

I found it by going to STO's website, which gave the HD channel number there for DirecTV. I think it has something to do with the method they use to deliver it that keeps the program guide from appearing.

DirecTV's "method" is some guy getting a kick in the ass from an angry caller and flipping the switch. At least that's how it worked last year :D

For you Dish Network folks, it looks like they're starting to add some HD RSN's:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828669

I didn't see FSN Ohio mentioned or STO, though.

Saturday was the first chance I got to watch a Tribe game in HD on STO on my new 50" 1080p plasma and I was stunned at the excellent PQ. I didn't see any of the MPEG artifacts I'm used to seeing on other HD broadcasts. Nice job, STO !

Watching via Wide Open West cable.

On the east side TWC dropped FSN HD for ESPN2 HD. I think this is fine for now because FSN didn't have any more cavs games scheduled in HD. I just hope this isn't a problem next year.

On the east side TWC dropped FSN HD for ESPN2 HD. I think this is fine for now because FSN didn't have any more cavs games scheduled in HD. I just hope this isn't a problem next year.

What FSN HD? I've never seen that, I live in Bainbridge Twp.

Are you referring to channel 798? That's the channel used for Cavs games in HD and now for the Tribe home games.

Also on the Eastside I've noticed in my area I still don't have data for Universal HD. I'm serviced now out of Concord. And as of right now I can't even get channel 775 on th S3, it simply doesn't know it's there. I've notified both TiVo and zap2it.com so it may take a couple of days. I may make a call to my connection at head end about the data it it doesn't come up soon. I figure they got it going late Friday and perhaps they just haven't had a chance to get it on the screen yet.

It's a mystery to me too. That is the old firmware version. Sorry to hear that.

The good thing about that upgrade was you could play from the beginning while recording. I thought that 4th speed was just too fast and kind of useless.

Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.
I dont know why
Dave

Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.
I dont know why
Dave

I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately.... Didn't Adelphia downgrade firmware once before when Fox WJW-DT was having problems?

I guess they must be working on it now.. Was watching Shark Tale in HD... Then at around 9pm, the signal went out completely.......
Last night the 11 PM news was back in HD but there were still a few macroblocking episodes, as well as a couple of out and out dropouts which caused my E* 921 to give either an "acquiring signal" or "no signal found". Still, it's a little bit better than it has been.

I'm assuming (until Gary can confirm or deny) that the macroblocking is caused by a problem with the STL (studio transmitter link).

I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately.... Didn't Adelphia downgrade firmware once before when Fox WJW-DT was having problems?

Can't be, first we already know that WEWS is acknowledging a problem with their own equipment, and second I'm getting it on my S3 and people are reporting it over the air as well.

The problem with WJW was that the DVR stopped recording when it went to local commercials. Adelphia, in their "wisdom" started getting all these calls about their DVR screwing up and panicked and reinstalled the old software which did not help. It turned out to be a code problem in the data stream.

Edited to add:

I think I missed your point. After reviewing your comments, "whoops they did it again.?" :D

What FSN HD? I've never seen that, I live in Bainbridge Twp.


Yeah FSN HD was the channel Cavs games were on. For me it was 253, STO (Indians games) is 251. Now 253 is ESPN HD.

I wonder if they did this to try and "fix" the problems WEWS-DT has been having lately....

Nope. I know they're working through some other stuff right now. This should be temporary; sit tight.

Yes, they "unupgraded me also" former Adelphia customer.
I dont know why
Dave

I think they upgraded us for the Daylight Savings Time issue in March, that created
the CL-16 issue with VOD. Once they got to the first Sunday in April when DST usually occured they rolled us back. I just hope that get us back to the new version soon with a fix for the VOD as I really liked the ability to whatch and entire program while it was being recorded and the fourth speed.

Nope. I know they're working through some other stuff right now. This should be temporary; sit tight.

Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version? I really hope you mean the DVR, because taking away useful features for a second time really sucks.

I do see that their info channel lists system upgrades for this evening and tomorrow between midnite and six. I really hope they reinstall the newer SARA version. I also wouldn't mind the additions of WBNX-HD and VS-HD...

WEWS's 11 PM news is in SD tonight on WEWS-DT.

Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version? I really hope you mean the DVR, because taking away useful features for a second time really sucks.

I do see that their info channel lists system upgrades for this evening and tomorrow between midnite and six. I really hope they reinstall the newer SARA version. I also wouldn't mind the additions of WBNX-HD and VS-HD...

Just my opinion but I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing that update again for some time. Just out of curiosity has anyone called customer service to see what they have to say about it or sent an email? Probably sending an email would be the smart decision. I'd do it myself buy I don't have the SA 8300.

WEWS's 11 PM news is in SD tonight on WEWS-DT.

I've got WEWS as a "toxic channel" for my S3 (on their newscast). Their constant macroblocking and pixelation really is creating havoc on my DVR. I'm back to watching WJW until they get it together..

It did appear to me however that the lyp synch issue was resolved yesterday.

I checked as of yesterday evening it now has guide data on my HD STB. I still can't get the channel on my S3 yet.

I am on the east side of Cleveland on the former Adelphia now Time Warner. I am using the HDHOMERUN solution through MCE. Has anyone else using a QAM tuner not the S3 found Universal HD frequency? If so where can it be located?

I checked as of yesterday evening it now has guide data on my HD STB. I still can't get the channel on my S3 yet.


Called my contact at TW head end. She sent me a signal to my cable cards and now I have Universal HD on channel 775. Still no guide data yet. I am on the phone with TiVo now trying to reach a level 3 tech.

WEWS's noon newscast was in SD this afternoon, as well. Is there a major HD problem at 5???

I'm looking for local recommendations on OTA antennas.... Anybody that can help will be very appreciated!

soooo... I live less than 15 miles from the farthest tower in Cleveland. I have a kinda "winged-disc" looking antenna from Radioshack in my attic and I normally get good reception on WKYC. I have issues consistently with WOIO and now I am having trouble with FOX... I've been on other forums and have heard people say they pick up stations from 30, 50 even 75 miles away. I'm really not that far from the farm, so you would think I could get these stations with a good attic antenna without any issues.

Anyone have any recommendations for antennas that work well in the Cleveland market? I live over in the Macedonia/Twinsburg area if that helps.

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.

Thanks!

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.

Thanks!

You can expect all the locals in HD and their associated sub channels (3,5,8,19,43). I'm West side (formerly Comcast).

I am on the east side formerly Adelphia but we receive. abc, nbc, cbs, fox, upn 43, pbs, discovery, tnt, and the hdbonus channel. the quality through media center and on the HDHOMERUN is far superior to anything I have seen on any Time Warner box.

WEWS's noon newscast was in SD this afternoon, as well. Is there a major HD problem at 5???

This is really bad. Even showing in SD WEWS DT news continues to have macroblocking and sound drop offs. Also in the corner it still says "HD" so obviously they must think they are going to get through this.

It's still toxic to my TiVo S3. Those sound drop offs turn into no sound and I have to pause and plat to get the sound back. If I rewind I don't hear the sound problems at all.

I guess I could watch with a 30 second delay and it might be fine. :)

This is really bad. Even showing in SD WEWS DT news continues to have macroblocking and sound drop offs. Also in the corner it still says "HD" so obviously they must think they are going to get through this.

It's still toxic to my TiVo S3. Those sound drop offs turn into no sound and I have to pause and plat to get the sound back. If I rewind I don't hear the sound problems at all.

I guess I could watch with a 30 second delay and it might be fine. :)
Yikes! For once my E* 921 has something in common with cable: a "toxic channel".

WOIO used to be a "toxic channel" for the 921. The fix was to do exactly what Hook is doing with his S3. The only diffeence was the WOIO problem has to do with the picture insted of the sound (the reds, and any color containing red were distorted) A 3 second delay was the fix.

As for the WEWS audio dropouts, I too get them. In fact the dropouts were the precursor to the macroblocking. I'm still waiting tfor Gary16 to confirm that these issues are caused by their STL. In essence it's GIGO - the transmetter is getting garbage (the macroblocking and audio dropouts - not the programming) in and therefore sends garbage out

Yikes! For once my E* 921 has something in common with cable: a "toxic channel".

WOIO used to be a "toxic channel" for the 921. The fix was to do exactly what Hook is doing with his S3. The only diffeence was the WOIO problem has to do with the picture insted of the sound (the reds, and any color containing red were distorted) A 3 second delay was the fix.

As for the WEWS audio dropouts, I too get them. In fact the dropouts were the precursor to the macroblocking. I'm still waiting tfor Gary16 to confirm that these issues are caused by their STL. In essence it's GIGO - the transmetter is getting garbage (the macroblocking and audio dropouts - not the programming) in and therefore sends garbage out

Well, I got brave and decided to turn on WEWS again. They are back on HD, the sound is perfect and, hopefully, they seem to have fixed their problem.

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what HD channels I would be able to pick up with Time Warner Cable for free if I had a set with a QAM tuner? I currently subscribe to analog cable. Located West side of Cleveland.

Thanks!

With a cable card you will get all the locals plus TNTHD and Discovery. I also just reset my cable card, and while it shows UNIVERSALHD, I am not authorized... on the other hand, I am now getting ESPN1HD and ESPN2HD. I am sure that this is a mistake.

Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*

I am on the east side of Cleveland on the former Adelphia now Time Warner. I am using the HDHOMERUN solution through MCE. Has anyone else using a QAM tuner not the S3 found Universal HD frequency? If so where can it be located?

699mhz.

Which should be temporary, the WEWS problems or the downgraded SARA version?

The SARA version. Joey is on the right track... ;)

Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*

Tonights game wasn't in hd. However I did notice that it was on TW 798 in SD with Dolby 5.1 sound.

Tonights game wasn't in hd. However I did notice that it was on TW 798 in SD with Dolby 5.1 sound.

IIRC most if not all of the away games are in SD. The home games get to use those sparkling Sony 910 HD (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/docs/brochures/hdvf700a%20brochure.pdf) cameras.

IIRC most if not all of the away games are in SD. The home games get to use those sparkling Sony 910 HD (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/docs/brochures/hdvf700a%20brochure.pdf) cameras.

Right. All the away games are SD unless they are on WKYC or ESPN. I think Fox picks up a Saturday game sometime, but Fox isn't doing all their Saturday games in HD.

Well, I got brave and decided to turn on WEWS again. They are back on HD, the sound is perfect and, hopefully, they seem to have fixed their problem.


I don't want to say that everything's fixed, but there haven't been any issues since around 6:00 tonight. There are still problems that are being worked on, but, yes, the lip sync issue appears to be fixed.

You can expect all the locals in HD and their associated sub channels (3,5,8,19,43). I'm West side (formerly Comcast).

I am not sure, but you may also get Discovery HD and PBS HD

The SARA version. Joey is on the right track... ;)


Well, after two evenings of supposed VOD 'system upgrades' we're still stuck with the same old version. :(

Well, after two evenings of supposed VOD 'system upgrades' we're still stuck with the same old version. :(

An upgrade on VOD and the SA 8300 have nothing to do with each other. The SA 8300 cannot record VOD, only show it. A regular STB does the same thing.

I think Paule123 got it right. When WEWS started having problems TW got worried and pulled the new firmware. I hope you enjoyed it while you had it, you probably won't see it again for at least another year. :rolleyes:

Now you could go get an TiVo S3 and get all those features (and more) that you got from the upgrade. But that is a lot of money. Here's the good news: TiVo is working on what they call a "mass market" (cheaper) HD DVR. I have no idea what it will have on it but whatever they come up with I'll guarantee it's better then that SA 8300. If it's better then my S3 I'll be crying in my beer. ;)

I don't want to say that everything's fixed, but there haven't been any issues since around 6:00 tonight. There are still problems that are being worked on, but, yes, the lip sync issue appears to be fixed.
Between 10 and 11 PM last night on WEWS the picture would sometimes lose horizontal hold: the top of the picture would pop up on the bottom about a quarter of the way for a few seconds and then correct itself.

This is with an E* 921 OTA mode. I have never seen anything like this in digital before, it's a throwback to the days of vacuum tube analog sets.

THere was also a brief loss of signal during "The Night Watch"

Between 10 and 11 PM last night on WEWS the picture would sometimes lose horizontal hold: the top of the picture would pop up on the bottom about a quarter of the way for a few seconds and then correct itself.

This is with an E* 921 OTA mode. I have never seen anything like this in digital before, it's a throwback to the days of vacuum tube analog sets.

THere was also a brief loss of signal during "The Night Watch"

This is interesting. A couple of weeks ago there was some talks about this same exact sympton on the TiVo boards. It had nothing to do with WEWS.

I'm wondering why WBNX only had their digital channel up for one day, and I haven't seen a trace of the signal since then. It's been almost two weeks. Maybe they have issues with dropouts, or maybe they're putting together a subchannel that they promised. I don't know the answer. Does anyone else know what the problem is?

An upgrade on VOD and the SA 8300 have nothing to do with each other.

I beg to differ. VOD applications are middleware (http://www.itvdictionary.com/definitions/middleware_system_software_or_platform_software_definition.h tml) which run on top of the STB's operating system. They have everything to do with each other.

I beg to differ. VOD applications are middleware (http://www.itvdictionary.com/definitions/middleware_system_software_or_platform_software_definition.h tml) which run on top of the STB's operating system. They have everything to do with each other.

OK. But that still doesn't mean that the VOD upgrade had anything to do with the SA 8300. And I stand by my statement that you won't see that upgrade for another year.

OK. But that still doesn't mean that the VOD upgrade had anything to do with the SA 8300. And I stand by my statement that you won't see that upgrade for another year.

Are you positive? Call me silly but I'm a little more optimistic than that. :)

Are you positive? Call me silly but I'm a little more optimistic than that. :)

I checked to see when you joined the forum and I'm pretty certain that the last time this happened was in the fall of 2005. Anyway after we got the update and the problems with FOX occurred they pulled the update right from underneath us.

OK, that was Adelphia. And things are changing and believe it or not I'd really like to see you guys have the upgrade. But my gut tells me they won't pull the switch on it.

Actually I'm a bit surprised they released it again at all as I thought they might wait until everything is switched over and then give you Passport software. But who knows?

I'll tell you what. If they don't have the upgrade by the time TiVo comes out with their "mass market" HD-DVR....give it some serious consideration at that time. Really IIRC the only advantage of that upgrade was the play from the beginning while recording feature. The 4th speed was too fast. I think I recall something on the menu that was interesting, but I forgot what it was.

Anyway, good luck. You stay positive, I'll stay realistic. :D

Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).
What's wrong?

I checked to see when you joined the forum and I'm pretty certain that the last time this happened was in the fall of 2005. Anyway after we got the update and the problems with FOX occurred they pulled the update right from underneath us.

OK, that was Adelphia. And things are changing and believe it or not I'd really like to see you guys have the upgrade. But my gut tells me they won't pull the switch on it.

Actually I'm a bit surprised they released it again at all as I thought they might wait until everything is switched over and then give you Passport software. But who knows?

I'll tell you what. If they don't have the upgrade by the time TiVo comes out with their "mass market" HD-DVR....give it some serious consideration at that time. Really IIRC the only advantage of that upgrade was the play from the beginning while recording feature. The 4th speed was too fast. I think I recall something on the menu that was interesting, but I forgot what it was.

Anyway, good luck. You stay positive, I'll stay realistic. :D

They had to make the change due to DST issues. That means they will have to make the change again this fall at the latest. It seems kind of silly to keep switching back and forth, so hopefully someone at TWC will figure it out and get the same SARA version that most of the rest of the country is using working stable on our system.

The 4th speed is not too fast at all... it is invaluable when dealing with recorded sporting events and getting back to a specific spot on recorded movies and long shows. There is also a very useful option in 'record all shows' that let's you pick a specific *day* and time slot rather than just time slot.

Finally, Tivo is a complete non-starter in this household. Losing On-Demand is a drag, but not vital... no Center Ice package, on the other hand, means no Tivo here. So given that fact, I'd like to have the 8300 running a version that at least addresses some of it's inherent deficiencies.

They had to make the change due to DST issues. That means they will have to make the change again this fall at the latest. It seems kind of silly to keep switching back and forth, so hopefully someone at TWC will figure it out and get the same SARA version that most of the rest of the country is using working stable on our system.

Finally, Tivo is a complete non-starter in this household. Losing On-Demand is a drag, but not vital... no Center Ice package, on the other hand, means no Tivo here. So given that fact, I'd like to have the 8300 running a version that at least addresses some of it's inherent deficiencies.

HehHeh...DSL was a problem long before the change for the SA 8300. I had to manually erase and add all my "record all" programs....except the day time shows...for some reason they were ok.

And just who told you there was no Center Ice? Watched a bit of it myself the other day. Don't know how, but there it was.

Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings, ESPN College, and NBA all available with S3.

In some TW areas that is not so, but here we get it.

I've got MLB EXTRA INNINGS.

Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).
What's wrong?


Welcome Bill. WKYC tends to come in the best for me as well. From what I understand, WVIZ is still running on low voltage meaning that only the immediately surround areas will pick it up.

Is your antenna VHF and UHF? I think WKYC and WOIO are the only VHF, but it wouldn't be uncommon for you to have problems with WOIO even with a VHF antenna. They are both located at the same compass orientation for me as well, yet I've never been able to fully rely on WOIO. For some reason I have trouble with the signal during the day, yet I record the Late Show every night and 95% of the time I have ZERO issues with it. :confused:

I'm sure you've already visited antennaweb.org, but if not, you might find some useful info on your situation there. I'm still trying to figure this all out and improve my own signal for consistency. There are many people on here that can be even more helpful than me, so just hang around this forum and I'm sure someone can help you out.

Cheers.

Brand new guy here. Got a new TV with digital tuner. In Mayfield Heights I only receive WKYC. I don't even get a weak signal on 31 (WJW), 34 (WQHS), 26 (WVIZ), 28 (WUAB) or 10 (WOIO).
What's wrong?

You mention a TV with a digital tuner, however nothing about an antenna. I assume you have an antenna. Where is it mounted? Did you do a channel scan? I live right next to you in Lyndhurst and I get all HD broadcast channels without a hitch most all of the time.

3.1- (WKYC)
5.1- (WEWS)
8.1- (WJW)
19.1- (WOIO)
25.1- (WVIZ)

Bill what brand/model tv did you purchase? Is it possible that this tv has a QAM tuner. If so this will save you a tremendous amount of hassle in setup! Depending on where you live in the lyndhurst, mayfield heights, beachwood area there are a lot of known multipath issues with ota hd especially near the mall and near the many large stores and shopping centers on mayfield road.

With a cable card you will get all the locals plus TNTHD and Discovery. I also just reset my cable card, and while it shows UNIVERSALHD, I am not authorized... on the other hand, I am now getting ESPN1HD and ESPN2HD. I am sure that this is a mistake.

So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)

Thanks.

So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)

Thanks.

Assuming it works the way my S3 does without cable cards, yes. You would get locals and I think you get Discovery HD as well.

Inundated, where the heck are you? You know what he would get.

Thanks for the replys. I bought a Toshiba 27D46 for my father to replace his 20 year old RCA. Just wanted something that would work for him after the change-over (did not need HD). The manual, which was written for kindergarteners, shows the "television system" (tuner?) as being "NTSC standard, ATSC standard (8VSB), QAM" He lives in an apartment with a VHF antenna on the roof of the 3-story building. Receives WKYC digital, and WKYC digital weather channels real good. No other digital stations are remotely present.

Thanks for the replys. I bought a Toshiba 27D46 for my father to replace his 20 year old RCA. Just wanted something that would work for him after the change-over (did not need HD). The manual, which was written for kindergarteners, shows the "television system" (tuner?) as being "NTSC standard, ATSC standard (8VSB), QAM" He lives in an apartment with a VHF antenna on the roof of the 3-story building. Receives WKYC digital, and WKYC digital weather channels real good. No other digital stations are remotely present.
Does he have a window that faces west? If so an indoor antenna might help get the UHF's. Apartment in-house antennas are not reliable, especially in the last 15 years since most people subscribe to cable. I bet the antenna is damaged and/or the lead in is broken somewhere.

WKYC will not stay on ch 2 for digital for long. In 2009 after the transition period ends they will move to UHF channel 17. If that antenna system is not fixed by then he'll get nothing.

Here are the channels that the digital signals are on today:

WKYC - ch 2
WEWS - ch 15
WJW - ch 31
WOIO - ch 10
WUAB - ch 28
WBNX - ch 30 * Not yet on the air - they did a one day test 2 weeks ago
WVIZ - 26 ** very low power temporary transmitter, unless you are on Brookpark Rd. 2 miles or less from the transmitter, forgetaboutit!

There are also a few Akron signals available, but from the East side I'd also say forgetaboutit due to a terrain obstruction called Richfield (which is where they should have put the transmitters insted of the lowlands of West Akron).

It appears to me that the voice synch on WEWS is slightly off again today. I say "appears" because if it is off it's only slightly off.

It appears to me that the voice synch on WEWS is slightly off again today. I say "appears" because if it is off it's only slightly off.

I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.

So I need a cable card then? Sorry, I'm just looking at buying a new hdtv so I'm trying to figure out what to get. If the tv has QAM but no cable card slot would I get anything? (looking at a Sony S2000 or S2010 series LCD with QAM)

Thanks.

I've just looked at the specs on the S2000 and S2010 and they only mention an ATSC tuner for HD. This will not pick up cable's QAM signals; it will only pick up broadcast HD with an antenna.

You can always use it with an external set-top box or Tivo S3 for cable HD reception.

I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.

It wasn't just you. I experienced the exact same thing. Agreed, very annoying.

Can I punch in 5.1 on my remote and get 5.1? When the TV automatically programs the channels, none but 3.1 show up.

Last night trying to watch the movie on WUAB-DT and the program audio was 10-15 dB down from the commercials/breaks - extremely annoying, had to use the mute button. My wife said the problem was similar, but not quite as bad on WKYC-DT. (OTOH, WOIO-DT's audio level control seems perfect lately.) Doesn't anybody from these stations actually watch them critically?

The audio level performance on digital channels has been pretty awful. (+-15 db)
JJK

Last night trying to watch the movie on WUAB-DT and the program audio was 10-15 dB down from the commercials/breaks - extremely annoying, had to use the mute button.
We've noticed this for a long time - not necessarily just on digital either. I think this is a marketing ploy. Make sure they have your attention for the most important part - SALES! We mute commercials too.

OK I can hear Hookbill - "Commercials? I don't watch commercials." Well, I don't have DVR equipment so I have to sit through them. :)

It wasn't just you. I experienced the exact same thing. Agreed, very annoying.

Wonderful. Now I got something to really look forward to when I play that episode. :(

I don't know if it was just me but I had major clicking noise on WEWS for a few minutes during Lost... It was pretty annoying. And the audio before, after and during for 5 minutes was low and crappy.
Judging from the Lost thread on AVS it was a national HD thing. Apparently ABC had some issue on the HD feed, but no one had an explanation beyond it occurred in multiple markets & no one commented they didn't have it in HD.

Silver lining that it wasn't just WEWS messing up...

What channel number are you using to pull in UNIVERSAL HD?

Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill

Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill

According to the channel list (http://www.timewarnercable.com/MediaLibrary/4/1/Content%20Management/AcqLineups/TWNEO-5618%20Bath%20LU_010807b.pdf) ESPN, ESPN2, HDNet HDNet Movies and INHD are on the 5.00 tier, but who can really tell? Their lineup card still list INHD2 on 775 in my area. Someone did mention that they picked up Universal HD on a QAM tuner so that may be on the "free tier".

Hansworth, nice to see you again. The last time you were here you said we would get Universal HD and WNEO HD. This is the first time you've been off and it took 6 months to happen.

Your not loosing your touch, are you? :cool:

As far as TWC/Cleveland QAM channels go, I haven't checked in a long time - I have an antenna hooked to my Westinghouse set and don't wanna go through the hassle of unplugging the cable from the SA8000, etc...

But last time I looked, all of the locals (3/5/8/19/25/43) that TWC carries in HD are in the clear on QAM, and should be picked up on that set. I assume 55 will be in the same boat whenever the folks on State Road get around to putting it up for good and offer it to cable.

I haven't seen ESPN2HD in the clear, but others have...but again, it's been a long time since I had. It wasn't in the clear back in the Adelphia days. TNTHD was in the clear when it went up, and Discovery HD always has been.

As for WNEO/WEAO HD - one reason it might not be up because it doesn't exist yet. OTA 49.1 is still taken by the SD "Create" service. I'm assuming TWCNEO won't add it on the Cleveland side until 45/49 get their HD service up again.

And finally, WEWS-DT has been pretty solid HD-wise that I've seen in the past day or so. Maybe they've finally swatted that bug. And to confirm an earlier message here, they DO run the 11 PM "NewsChannel 5 Nightbeat" repeat at 1 AM in HD. I'm watching it even as I type this...

We've noticed this for a long time - not necessarily just on digital either. I think this is a marketing ploy. Make sure they have your attention for the most important part - SALES! We mute commercials too.

OK I can hear Hookbill - "Commercials? I don't watch commercials." Well, I don't have DVR equipment so I have to sit through them. :)
It's not a marketing ploy. If you had a VU meter on the audio output you would see that the commercials "peak" audio level is no higher than peaks during the program. The problem is there are low level sounds during the program that makes you want to listen at a louder level. Them when a commercial comes on it appears to be louder, since the commercial's audio is compressed.

If what you were watching was a feature film, the audio soundtrack is mixed with a greater dynamic range than programs and commercials produced for television. Now they could apply audio compression to the film's soundtrack, but then all of you with home theater systems would be complaining that the compressed sound lacked dynamics (i.e. a whisper is as loud as a shout).

This problem was addressed back in the analog days by Phillips/Magnavox's "Smart Sound" which was an automatic volume control circuit that "ducked" the commercial's audio level. What we need is a digitral equivelent of "Smart Sound".

Can I punch in 5.1 on my remote and get 5.1? When the TV automatically programs the channels, none but 3.1 show up.
You have to scan for chanels first. Don't confuse "virtural" channels with the actual rf frequency. "5.1" in Cleveland is on rf ch 15, in another town 5.1 could be on any channel. That is why I posted the rf channels for you. You need to be tuned to a UHF channel in the case of WEWS, even though the station is identified as "5.1".

If you scanned and only "3.1 & 3.2" showed up, you need a different antenna. "3.1" is actually rf ch 2 which is low-band VHF. Your scan should have also picked up "19.1 & 19.2" which is on rf ch 10 (high band VHF). The transmitters for these 2 stations are virturally next door to each other so the aim of the antenna is correct. If you scan failed to get 19 it's becuase the antenna is damaged and only picking up the low band signals. See my post above regarding indoor antennas and windows facing the Parma antenna farm.

Ummm, maybe what you say is partially true Michael, and I'm not looking for a debate, but I'll just say this. One of my TVs is a Philips analog TV with... "Smart Sound". When watching on that tv, the sound during the commercials is still way louder than the loundest peak of the audio track during the tv show. Why don't they just lower the volume level of the commercials so that it (playing into your theory here) gives the illusion that it is at the same volume of the tv show?

Ummm, maybe what you say is partially true Michael, and I'm not looking for a debate, but I'll just say this. One of my TVs is a Philips analog TV with... "Smart Sound". When watching on that tv, the sound during the commercials is still way louder than the loundest peak of the audio track during the tv show. Why don't they just lower the volume level of the commercials so that it (playing into your theory here) gives the illusion that it is at the same volume of the tv show?
The "correct" volume level is different for every viewer due to differences in audio systems being used to the size and acoustics of the room you are in. The only thing broadcasters have to do is keep the "peak" audio levels the same (which they do). The problem lies in programs that were originally mixed to be shown in theaters. I'm willing to bet a regular TV show (say "Uguly Betty" for an example) does not has the same problem when the commercials come on as a showing of "Jurassic Park" (an example chosen for it's extreme dymanic level) would. Can you imagine the audio being compressed on "Jurassic Park"? You might as well watch it on a 19" black & white set - the affect to the audio is just as severe.

I guess "Smart Sound", while the concept is good, in reality it must not work as well as advertized. This goes back to my statement that the room acoustics play a role in how loud a broadcast sounds.

The "correct" volume level is different for every viewer due to differences in audio systems being used to the size and acoustics of the room you are in. The only thing broadcasters have to do is keep the "peak" audio levels the same (which they do). The problem lies in programs that were originally mixed to be shown in theaters. I'm willing to bet a regular TV show (say "Uguly Betty" for an example) does not has the same problem when the commercials come on as a showing of "Jurassic Park" (an example chosen for it's extreme dymanic level) would. Can you imagine the audio being compressed on "Jurassic Park"? You might as well watch it on a 19" black & white set - the affect to the audio is just as severe.

I guess "Smart Sound", while the concept is good, in reality it must not work as well as advertized. This goes back to my statement that the room acoustics play a role in how loud a broadcast sounds.


No offense, but your theories just aren't holding water my friend. First of all, I was never comparing a movie soudtrack to that of a commercial. I was comparing a tv show, which was meant to be shown on tv and not in a movie theater, to a commercial.
The size and dynamics of the room would have nothing to do with the comparison of the tv show to the commercial. They are both being played in the same room, so their enviroment so to speak, is the same.
Smart Sound does work, it's just that they (broadcasters) intentionally use such major fluctuations in the the sound output, that the volume regulator in the tv just can't handle it.
The fact of the matter is that broadcasters do intentionally make the commercials appear to be louder. They do play by the rules, but then again they help make the rules. So it's kind of like the politicians who get to vote on wether or not they get a pay raise. (that's why they get paid so much) :)

No offense, but your theories just aren't holding water my friend. First of all, I was never comparing a movie soudtrack to that of a commercial. I was comparing a tv show, which was meant to be shown on tv and not in a movie theater, to a commercial.
The size and dynamics of the room would have nothing to do with the comparison of the tv show to the commercial. They are both being played in the same room, so their enviroment so to speak, is the same.
Smart Sound does work, it's just that they (broadcasters) intentionally use such major fluctuations in the the sound output, that the volume regulator in the tv just can't handle it.
The fact of the matter is that broadcasters do intentionally make the commercials appear to be louder. They do play by the rules, but then again they help make the rules. So it's kind of like the politicians who get to vote on wether or not they get a pay raise. (that's why they get paid so much) :)

I tend to agree with Smarty Pants and I'm going to use a totally different scenario.

When I watch MLB Extra Innings on some games I have to really crank up the rear sound so I can get that "ball park" feeling. Sometimes as high as +10. But as soon as a commercial comes on, those back speakers start blaring.

I beleive I do have a setting that is suppose to do smart balance but I don't see it working like I would like.

Here's another example. Law & Order on NBC. Dolby 5.1 Pick one. Again for good rear sound I have to crank up the rear speakers. Go to a commercial and talk about loud!

It's an old gimmick and television continues to use it.

Oh and since WEWS is 24/7 Dolby 5.1 that's another good place to see the sound increases.

Re the audio discussion, I just googled this:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Inside-Audio/f_dm_inside_audio-12.10.03.shtml

"Here's the deal. Alert readers know we've got audio levels problems in TV land. I've written about it, and so have lots of others. The problem is simple and obvious-audio levels vary widely from channel to channel and from time to time on any given channel, thereby unduly annoying viewers. There's more, but this is the gist of it.

How bad is the problem? I informally measured an 18 dB range over 100 channels from my friendly local cable provider (Charter Communications). Michael Guthrie of Harmonic, Inc., has measured a +/- 15 dB range. Jeffrey Riedmiller, Steve Lyman and Charles Robinson of Dolby Laboratories have measured a 16 dB range.

I think a 3 dB range would be excellent performance and 6 dB would be satisfactory, so, the ranges I've cited are, by comparison, really quite bad. Jeffrey Riedmiller thinks they are getting worse (since digital and analog services often co-exist on today's cable systems). "

"Now, when Dolby ships one of its encoders (such as the DP569), the "default" dialnorm setting is -27 dBFS. Interestingly, when Jeffrey Riedmiller and his associates at Dolby did a study of dialnorm settings provided by various digital services available in the San Francisco bay area, they found that all the 13 digital services they studied had an indicated dialnorm value of -27 dBFS, while only one of the services had an actual dialogue level of -27 dBFS. This suggests, quite convincingly, that we are all just leaving our dialnorm settings in the default position."

Since I have yet to get a DD 5.1 set-up, my observations have been based on the 2 channel decoded to analog output of my TV. I'm surprised that the commercials pump so much info into the rears of a 5.1 signal, unless they are just faking 5.1 using a 2 channel mix and pumping the same track into the rears as the front. If that is indeed occurring, that would be at least part of the probelm we are discussing.

As far as fluctuations from channel to channel, and within programs, my biggest pet-peeve are the "local avails" that both cable and satellite have used (local insertion commercials). The audio levels of the inserted spots never match either the program or the network's spots. The equivilent local avails on the local stations do not vary as much.

Some of the "blame" has to go to the producers of the commercial spots. They employ so much compression to begin with, and then the broadcaster has to add some more just befoe it gets transmitted, the end reslut is close to what AM radio did in the 60's to top-40 music, compressed so severely that the VU meter stands still at the maximum peak level.

Some of the "blame" has to go to the producers of the commercial spots. They employ so much compression to begin with, and then the broadcaster has to add some more just befoe it gets transmitted, the end reslut is close to what AM radio did in the 60's to top-40 music, compressed so severely that the VU meter stands still at the maximum peak level.

What Michael said. Coimmercial audio tends to be pretty compressed to increase the apparent loudness without going "into the red." It's a trick that's been used since the days of Ron Popeil and his Veg-o-Matic. On the other hand, the live audio from a ballpark is only going to hit a limiter somewhere in the broadcast chain to keep everything legal. The dynamic range of the live feed isn't deliberately compressed, but the commercials are.

Having said all that, there's no excuse for leaving the equipment at the factory defaults! The entire chain needs to be calibrated periodically. That's why bars & tone were invented, after all...

The +-15db swing in audio levels was measured with my SPL meter. The sum total of it all is that the audio levels being transmitted OTA are a disaster. The analog channel levels are just fine while the digital channels are all over the place level wise. 43.2 tube are about -25 db down consistantly. 49.1, 49.2, & 49.3 are pretty good. 8.1 is the same as analog, 3.1 is about -15db down, 5.1 is down a bit, 19.1 is a bit hot, 19.2 is hot, and 61.1 is really hot. I am not talking dynamic range, I am not talking room acoustics, I am not talking compression. But I am talking what my SPL meter and my ears say.
JJK

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: I just read that WKYC/3 will have FOUR pre-season Browns games in HD this year, and SportsTime Ohio will replay those games (also in HD).

Given how bad the Browns are, there may be more HD pre-season games on WKYC, than CBS regular season games in HD all year!

And for what it's worth, I haven't seen HD blocking on WEWS-DT for a couple of days now. Maybe they have something fixed?

We now return you to your Audio Level Discussion ;)

The +-15db swing in audio levels was measured with my SPL meter. The sum total of it all is that the audio levels being transmitted OTA are a disaster. The analog channel levels are just fine while the digital channels are all over the place level wise. 43.2 tube are about -25 db down consistantly. 49.1, 49.2, & 49.3 are pretty good. 8.1 is the same as analog, 3.1 is about -15db down, 5.1 is down a bit, 19.1 is a bit hot, 19.2 is hot, and 61.1 is really hot. I am not talking dynamic range, I am not talking room acoustics, I am not talking compression. But I am talking what my SPL meter and my ears say.
JJK


Wow, I don't have any audio meters but from what I hear out of my Home Theater System and what you have listed, I'd say your on the money.

My back speakers will distort if volume level is 2 high. So when I watch WOIO on Dolby pro logic 2 I need to back them down to -2 decibles. On 8.1 I can either let them be or go up +1 decible. WEWS is now Dolby 5.1 and I usually raise the back about +3 decibles. And WKYC is the strangest. Sometimes I have to raise the back speakers a full +10 but other shows, like Las Vegas I can leave at 0 decible. When I watch baseball on WKYC I usually add +4 db. It's really all over the place, but it's never anything I have to bring down.

Has anybody mentioned that Universal HD and ESPN2HD are located on the Time Warner "free tier". So it now appears that except for ESPN, INHD and HDNet, everything else is free as long as you have a box or card. The $5 tier gets you 3 channels. Am I correct or am I missing something? BTW, hello Hookbill

I have a cable card and I now get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD in the clear, I am not getting Universal HD. My title does show UNVHD on 775. I am not on the $5 tier.

And for what it's worth, I haven't seen HD blocking on WEWS-DT for a couple of days now. Maybe they have something fixed?

We now return you to your Audio Level Discussion ;)

It's a temporary fix with a permanent fix coming. Hopefully the "temporary" fix will keep things working OK for the short term.

I have a cable card and I now get ESPNHD and ESPN2HD in the clear, I am not getting Universal HD. My title does show UNVHD on 775. I am not on the $5 tier.

It seems to depend on where you live, and like I said their lineup card needs updating. I'll bet if you talk to 2 CSR's you will get two different responses.

Did D* stop carrying STO in HD? it does not surprise me i was just wondering and did anyone notice that they HAD channel 77 set up for National Geo and that fell by the way side i really hate D*

The HD games are on D* Channel 96. Of course, since the Indians have barely been home so far, there have been very few. The program guide already shows the Wednesday game with Texas. The previous series was never in the program guide, you just had to tune to the channel.

MP, Thanks for your replys!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this: I just read that WKYC/3 will have FOUR pre-season Browns games in HD this year, and SportsTime Ohio will replay those games (also in HD).

Given how bad the Browns are, there may be more HD pre-season games on WKYC, than CBS regular season games in HD all year!


lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year... ;)

Received this reply to my email questioning them about it. Dated 04-17

"Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.


In order to resolve an issue with subscribers experiencing errors getting to their on demand services, we needed to rollback the upgrade that was installed to a previous version of the box software. We are planning an upgrade to our servers during the early morning hours within the next few days. Once the servers are upgraded, we will be able to roll out the box software with the new DVR functions. This is a temporary setback and we appreciate you continued patience as we strive to make your entertainment service better.


I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.



Sincerely,


Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"

Received this reply to my email questioning them about it. Dated 04-17

"Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.


In order to resolve an issue with subscribers experiencing errors getting to their on demand services, we needed to rollback the upgrade that was installed to a previous version of the box software. We are planning an upgrade to our servers during the early morning hours within the next few days. Once the servers are upgraded, we will be able to roll out the box software with the new DVR functions. This is a temporary setback and we appreciate you continued patience as we strive to make your entertainment service better.


I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.



Sincerely,


Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative"

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it. :)

lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year... ;)

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it. :D

OK. I know I am a loner out here in NW Stark County with Massillon cable. But....if there is anybody out there.....I found something promising for us Tribe Fans. Despite the fact that every single month when I go in and pay my bill or pay over the phone, they tell me nothing new in the HD channels is planned ( I ask about STO and NFL network religously) I discovered a clue!

The lowest channel in the HD tier is 603 which is wkyc out of Cleveland. Normally when I hit the channel down button it jumps into the Pay-Per View area in the 400s. Well it went to channel 602 and it said "off the air" in the info box. I thought "WTF?" and looked to the channel area and lo and behold


"STO-HD" (angelic choir here for emphasis)


I scan through the next 7 days on the guide and it always says off-air. So....this is a very promising sign for me....right? Surely they would not have added this to the guide if it wasn't close to going live....I hope.

If you look back in this thread you will see I am thinking of switching over to DirectTV as I really want Tribe games in HD again. But this may save me from going with the inferior HDlite of satellite after all.

I will say I am impressed with Massillon Cable reliability considering they are a very small cable company. They are just a llittle slower to get new channels than the rest. They are actually more reliable than TWC was for me.

Peace!

The next HD game on STO is Wednesday against Texas. So see if it shows up then.

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it. :)

But you don't have an 8300 so you won't see it! :)

But you don't have an 8300 so you won't see it! :)

True. I'm sure you will be more then happy to let me know however. :)

"STO-HD" (angelic choir here for emphasis)


I scan through the next 7 days on the guide and it always says off-air. So....this is a very promising sign for me....right? Surely they would not have added this to the guide if it wasn't close to going live....I hope.



Don't worry about the guide data being inaccurate. On my WOW cable, the guide data for STOHD and FSNOH-HD often says "Off air" even when something is going on.

Don't worry about the guide data being inaccurate. On my WOW cable, the guide data for STOHD and FSNOH-HD often says "Off air" even when something is going on.

Same here. The Tribe game on Sunday on digital channel 179 STO said "Off Air" and the game was on.

Some days they even have SD games on the HD BON channel.....which is sweet because it's in Dolby 5.1. But you never know, you just have to look.

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical....I'll believe it when I see it. :)

As an aside I have been way more audio sync problems on various channels since my box was unupgraded.
Dave

MP, Thanks for your replys!
Your welcome! Let us know if you tried another antenna and if you were able to scan in more channels.

WEWS HD News voice is out of synch again today.

I really wish they would fix this. I can't stand FOX 8 in the afternoon because of all the AI talk and WOIO isn't in HD, not that I would prefer that either.

lol... That's funny. But I think the Browns are going to be awesome this year... ;)
OH....They'll be AWESOME alright. They've been shown for over 30 years by the Steelers and lately the Ravens (the REAL Browns) how to concentrate the draft on the O-line in order to run/control the ball. They've just never figured that out. I see 5-11 tops.

Apartment in-house antennas are not reliable, especially in the last 15 years since most people subscribe to cable. I bet the antenna is damaged and/or the lead in is broken somewhere.
.

Thats the attiude & especially when the Cable company cuts the common antenna feed making it unusable... just keep paying them & complaining about rising rates! LOL

So BNX is doing testing on 30?

Steve, yes....

TWC was in the neighborhood yesterday, although I don't have cable, I had to go over & re-program my neighbors set (Westinghouse), the locals are on 83, 84, & 85 subs now, don't remember exactly but they are on sub numbers 10 & below... strange though another WUAB HD (with info) autoprogrammed itself on 270, Audio but no video & The Tube repeats itself on 500... The Music is on 80 & 93's subs. Before the Auto Program 3 was on 84-53 & 5 was on 84-51

Strange so many scrambled digitals programmed them self in on the auto program... it will take hours to delete them only for TWC to come back & change them.... :confused:

& you PAY good money for this aggravation? :p

Edit: I found my list I scratched out...

83-2 (Fox 8)
84-3 (43)
84-10 (ABC 5)
85-1 (CBS 19)
85-3 (NBC 3)
Music Choice 80-21 to 40 & 93-nn

The Techs at TWC also took the liberties to cut her incoming Dish cables installed by the previous owner rendering them useless.... smart business sense I guess! :).




Happened again, My neighbor called to say Fox 8 is gone from 83-2, & another was moved to 83-4, I decided to do a reprogram from -80-90, seemed to lose EVERYTHING now, though Fox 8 went to 213 (I think) & 5 HD went to 201, all the rest are gone...., they will nort program back in & the set can't find them now.

Hey, I have an Idea, why don't TWC do this logically 3 on 83-3, 8 on 88-8, 5 on 83-5.. etc.

Where did TWC hide em now? I'm getting sick of this. Glad I personally don't have cable. (Of course I don't have DSL, a Cell etc either) :)

I know some of you have seen the ad's on television about Ohio's cable companies having monopolies. I live in an area where I won't see FIOS or AT&T's cable. I'm stuck with Time Warner and they are free to charge me what they want. My only other solution would be satellite but as many of you know there is a line of site problem for me so that is not an option.

So I'm going to put this link here for those of you who are interested. I'd sure like to see competition for my cable dollars and better selection. a 28% and more decrease in my bill would be great, plus better service.

For more information:

http://www.wewantchoiceohio.com/index.htm

I know some of you have seen the ad's on television about Ohio's cable companies having monopolies. I live in an area where I won't see FIOS or AT&T's cable. I'm stuck with Time Warner and they are free to charge me what they want. My only other solution would be satellite but as many of you know there is a line of site problem for me so that is not an option.

So I'm going to put this link here for those of you who are interested. I'd sure like to see competition for my cable dollars and better selection. a 28% and more decrease in my bill would be great, plus better service.

For more information:

http://www.wewantchoiceohio.com/index.htm

I originally thought this was a great thing that was going to happen to Ohio until I dug a little further and read countless newspaper articles on the subject...

I urge people to not take this bill at face value. Senate Bill 117 is not really in our best interest. It promotes state controlling of all cable TV and broadband services and is being lobbied by AT&T. The Washington Post along with other news outlets in areas where similar bills have passed have proven wrong the notion of lower cable bills. Do you think cable companies can't wait to come in and give you cheaper rates? The cable conglomerate will stick together to avoid any price wars as it would be in the best interest of all of them.

Passing of this legislation would also give the cable and telecom companies the rights to put large utility cabinets for highspeed internet and cable in anyones tree lawn they see fit. I know I don't want one of those things in front of my house!

Not to mention the fact that it will eliminate all public access, educational and government channels from your communities. Don't let big business take away our right for local communication. All city municipalities including Cleveland and all the neighboring suburbs have passed or in the process of passing council resolutions against the efforts of SB 117. Your school districts are doing the same.

Please take time to visit some of these sites as well:
http://www.localvoiceohio.org/index2.shtml
http://saveaccess.org/

Cheers.

I originally thought this was a great thing that was going to happen to Ohio until I dug a little further and read countless newspaper articles on the subject...

I urge people to not take this bill at face value. Senate Bill 117 is not really in our best interest. It promotes state controlling of all cable TV and broadband services and is being lobbied by AT&T. The Washington Post along with other news outlets in areas where similar bills have passed have proven wrong the notion of lower cable bills. Do you think cable companies can't wait to come in and give you cheaper rates? The cable conglomerate will stick together to avoid any price wars as it would be in the best interest of all of them.

Passing of this legislation would also give the cable and telecom companies the rights to put large utility cabinets for highspeed internet and cable in anyones tree lawn they see fit. I know I don't want one of those things in front of my house!

Not to mention the fact that it will eliminate all public access, educational and government channels from your communities. Don't let big business take away our right for local communication. All city municipalities including Cleveland and all the neighboring suburbs have passed or in the process of passing council resolutions against the efforts of SB 117. Your school districts are doing the same.

Please take time to visit some of these sites as well:
http://www.localvoiceohio.org/index2.shtml
http://saveaccess.org/

Cheers.


Well Rob your entitled to your opinions but after going to both links I think you would have been better suited to leave the second link off.

Those boxes you are talking about are also being built by VERIZON and they are not the most unattractive thing in the world. I already have boxes on my property as it stands now for both cable and electrical. The part that was funny was about it being a fire hazard. Talk about trying to install fear and propaganda, that certainly was an attempt to do so. Remember how government told you that raising the minimum wage would mean you would lose privacy? :eek:

Second we've already deregulated cable and it didn't do what it was suppose to do. In fact we were better off when cable was regulated, same as we were better off when our utilities were regulated. And local government saying this is a bad idea I tend to find laughable as well, when did they ever want to do anything beneficial for the working person?

I do support your right to your opinion however and I'm glad you posted your links. People should see both sides of the story.

I urge people to not take this bill at face value.

This is good advice, because usually when there's a huge PR campaign on a given issue like this, there are LOBBYISTS behind it. "Follow the money". There's almost always a hidden agenda.

Citizen groups that are truly out for the public interest usually don't have the money or resources to blanket the airwaves with slick marketing campaigns.

Do I sound a bit cynical? :D

You guys do realize Cleveland is one of the few markets in the country that has two cable companies competing with each other, Wide Open West and TWC. At least where I live, I have "choice".

Hookster,

I would've thought you would be against cable competition. We all know that the introduction to Fiber will mean the death of cable and eventually TiVo. :D

Those boxes you are talking about are also being built by VERIZON and they are not the most unattractive thing in the world.

Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!

http://saveaccess.org/sites/saveaccess.org/files/images/craftsman.jpg

Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!

http://saveaccess.org/sites/saveaccess.org/files/images/craftsman.jpg

It looked better to me then the rest of the property did. :)

Edited to add: OK in that picture it doesn't look great. But hey it's not like they are going to stick one of those in front of everyone's house. It's just one unlucky sap who usually lives on the corner. All you have to do is hope your not that unlucky sap. :)

In my case if they did stick it where my current boxes were it really wouldn't make much difference. there is about 50 yards between where the boxes are and where my house is. It's actually right on the property line.

Are you kidding me? I don't wan't these things on my lawn! Imagine what they would do to the retail value of your house! If a potential buyer has the choice between 2 similar homes with 1 having a huge ugly box on the lawn, I guarantee they're purchasing the box-less home every time!

http://saveaccess.org/sites/saveaccess.org/files/images/craftsman.jpg

Can I put some steaks in there during the winter??

Seriously though, I support opportunities for competition, but the things that this state and it's citizens will lose with this bill the way it is written NOW is not worth it. As noted above, this bill has been lobbied for by AT&T. Don't be confused by this "astroturf group" (TV4US) which acts as they are behind us consumers. While they want to be able to provide television service, they oppose net neutrality to allow other companies offer us cheaper highspeed connections.

I trust my local government before I ever trust big business to lend me a helping hand!

Hookster,

I would've thought you would be against cable competition. We all know that the introduction to Fiber will mean the death of cable and eventually TiVo. :D

Whops, I almost missed this post. People with the S3 are quite able to hook up to VERIZON Fios. However since Verizon FIOS does not support cable cards TiVo will not support their S3 with Verizon. But Verizon does use cable cards, they just don't support it. :eek:

Sounds crazy doesn't it?

One other point. I'm not saying that I would use AT&T or Verizon. I would just like to say to my cable company, "bring down the price, your not the only game in town anymore."

Get it? ;)

One other point. I'm not saying that I would use AT&T or Verizon. I would just like to say to my cable company, "bring down the price, your not the only game in town anymore."

Get it? ;)

There's a lot more at stake than saving a few bucks. In fact, that tag-line may be the biggest misconception. This bill is not in the public's best interest. Trust me.

Read the following public interest letter regarding the pending 117 bill (http://www.datv.org/sb117/Ohio_franchise_letterConsumerReports.pdf)

There's a lot more at stake than saving a few bucks. In fact, that tag-line may be the biggest misconception. This bill is not in the public's best interest. Trust me.

Read the following public interest letter regarding the pending 117 bill (http://www.datv.org/sb117/Ohio_franchise_letterConsumerReports.pdf)


I will give more creedence to something in The Washington Post then the Cleveland Plain Dealer.....That's because I disagree with the Plain Dealer frequently. And I admit that I was more absorbed by the opportunity to bring down cable prices. And Rob I acknowledge that you also mentioned the Post as well.

Perhaps there is more to this then I saw initially. I will reconsider my position on this matter.

Still you have to admit. The link with the box on fire was pretty funny.

No competition to cable???

What about WOW? (Yes I know that they are only in a few select areas)
What about the 2 satellite services?
What about OTA?

This bill is not in our best interest!

No competition to cable???

What about WOW? (Yes I know that they are only in a few select areas)
What about the 2 satellite services?
What about OTA?

This bill is not in our best interest!

1.You answered your first question. :)
2.Not for me. I've got trees. Lots of trees.
3.Are you kidding me? No The Shield, 4400, Nip/Tuck,Dirt, The Riches, Rescue Me, Eureka, and others. Not an option.

You guys are going to laugh but as I was cleaning my bird cages about half an hour ago I read a very interesting article on this bill in Sunday's Plain Dealer.....That's how I read my paper, while I lay it on the bottom of the birds cage. :D The article was neutral but it did indicate big money on the side of AT&T and also that Time Warner was in cahoots with them. That's something to worry about alright.

It seems like a no-brainer in theory... but once you read the fine print, there are some big issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately all we can do is write our local legislators and hope that they can see through the smoke. There is a constant recurring theme across the country with this issue and the opposition is not without warrant. Those who oppose it aren't trying to get everyone to pay high cable bills! They have reasons....

Anywhoo... I really didn't want to turn this into a political discussion that is why I haven't said anything on the subject until now... soooooo... when the hell is WBNX gonna go live again?!?!

I've got Massillon cable too. Do you think we will see our first game on 602 tomorrow? Hope so.

The STO schedule says “Title: MLB: Cleveland Indians Baseball Cleveland vs. Texas Rangers (Live) HDTV, Date: April 25, 2007, Time: 7:00 PM”

I had called Massilon Cable to order a new digital converter box for my daughters TV (non-HD) and I planned on asking them while I had them on the phone. Before I even got to a live person the recording said "Cleveland Indians Home games now available in HD on channel 602". Yeah!!!! No stinking D* for me now!

I checked the guide and it is listed now and it is also listed on the Indians Take2 the next morning so even the replay is in HD.

I have bugged MCTV since I moved here last August and they just kept saying that they weren'y going to add it anytime soon. Still I asked every month.

When I told the guy on the phone he said "see, we really do listen to what our customers want." Even though it sounds like a line of BS, I have to admit it is cool to call your cable company customer service and always get the same 2-3 guys. I actually remember them and they remember me. One of the benefits of being a small company.

Peace! Tomorrow at 7pm I will be in Basebal Nirvana again. At least it feels like ot for as long as I have been bugging them!




I've got Massillon cable too. Do you think we will see our first game on 602 tomorrow? Hope so.

The STO schedule says “Title: MLB: Cleveland Indians Baseball Cleveland vs. Texas Rangers (Live) HDTV, Date: April 25, 2007, Time: 7:00 PM”

Direct TV also shows the Indians in HD. The Texas game is listed in the guide

When is E* going to get STO-HD? I am so jealous of you folks who do get it. Watching the Tribe in lowly SD is almost unbearable. :(

When is E* going to get STO-HD? I am so jealous of you folks who do get it. Watching the Tribe in lowly SD is almost unbearable. :(

And you've called them how many times requesting it? :)

If you want to see results, sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horns.

And you've called them how many times requesting it? :)

If you want to see results, sometimes you have to grab the bull by the horns.

I've voiced my request plenty of times. I am trying to wait patiently now. :o

What is the over/under on which of the following DBS anticipations will happen first?........

-E* Receiving HD LIL's/RSN's or D* receiving 100+ HD channels?

I've voiced my request plenty of times. I am trying to wait patiently now. :o

What is the over/under on which of the following DBS anticipations will happen first?........

-E* Receiving HD LIL's/RSN's or D* receiving 100+ HD channels?

Answer is...

E* giving Cleveland our HD LiLs & RSNs!

Only because D* are stupidly promoting 100+ HD channels even though there are less than half that even available! They have back-peddled a little bit by now advertising the "capacity for 100+ national HD channels"...