I've noticed on the past 2 Browns games, and during their newscasts that the center channel audio is non-existent. The receiver shows Dolby Digital, and the TV says 5.1 in the info screen.

It's not my system, as all other digital channels output 5.1 and center audio is there.

I use TWC and receive my HD via clear QAM.

In theory WBNX-HD would be broadcast QAM in the clear too right?

Let us know what (if) they say.

In theory, it should be. If you're curious, though, please e-mail your cable provider as well. The more they're contacted, the more likely they are to do something about it. (And, big surprise, no response from Cox to my e-mail.)

I've noticed on the past 2 Browns games, and during their newscasts that the center channel audio is non-existent. The receiver shows Dolby Digital, and the TV says 5.1 in the info screen.

It's not my system, as all other digital channels output 5.1 and center audio is there.

I use TWC and receive my HD via clear QAM.

Their local news is not in Dolby 5.1, only in HD. I can't say for the Browns Games because the only time I've tuned them in is on my upstairs HD TV which doesn't have digital sound.

I'll have to do a bit more poking. I generally don't watch WKYC/NBC, short of games and the rare Law & Order (wife burned me out on that long ago.) I'll have to check during NBC prime time, etc.

The receiver never switched away from Dolby Digital during or after the Browns game last night, and that center channel never peeped until I changed over to Letterman.

In theory, it should be. If you're curious, though, please e-mail your cable provider as well. The more they're contacted, the more likely they are to do something about it. (And, big surprise, no response from Cox to my e-mail.)

Yes fellow TW people please don't rely on my one email. They haven't responded yet so I need some more of you to send in emails and while I wouldn't say copy mine don't let them hand you a form letter for a reply.

Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.

Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.

Spill it. Give us the goods.:D

Spill it. Give us the goods.:D

Yeah, I had a real good story a couple of months ago I wrote about What's yours?

Are we allowed to talk about Time Warner Cable Bills on here? I have a real doosey of a story to share. My cable bill went up almost 60% this month. I live in North Ridgeville.

Yeah come on. I'd love to hear this one.

I had negotiated a price of around $97 last September (was it still Comcast back then, I don't remember) for one year service with all the channels they offer, along with the $39.95 high speed internet access (I think it's the 2nd fastest internet access service they offer). This $97 price also included one Motorola 6412 cable box with no DVR features enabled, and one cable card for my Sony recorder. This did include all their digital channels and all the premium movie channels.

Anyways, my bill has been $97 a month since last September. I just got my newest bill and the new price is $155.67! That's almost a 60% increase! I called to confront them about this and the best they could do is $125 for exactly the services and features I have now, plus they would throw in a DVR cable box that including the full DVR features. I went ahead and dropped my service to Lifeline basic for $12 plus their slowest internet access for $25 making my bill with tax at $38 a month. This whole process took an hour of my time! And to add insult to injury they are charging me the pro-rated $155 a month fee until a week from tomorrow which is the quickest they can get the cable guy out to get my cable card, my box and shut off channels above number 18! So in essence, I’m losing out on almost $40 for services that I want cancelled right now.

I called DirecTV, which I have an account with through my company, and they offered me their new $299 HD DVR for $19.95 but with only one movie channel for around $85 a month, but with a 2 year commitment. I'm going to hold out for a better deal even though I would be happy with the DirecTV offer since they are adding over 50 HD Channels next month. I just don’t like being locked in to a contract. The HD DVR wouldn’t even be mine. They lease them now.

I’m ready to say screw them all and just stick with my MovieBeam to order movies on Demand and my $9.95 Blockbuster total access account. And use my Sony recorder for the HI-Def OTA channels.

I had negotiated a price of around $97 last September (was it still Comcast back then, I don't remember) for one year service with all the channels they offer, along with the $39.95 high speed internet access (I think it's the 2nd fastest internet access service they offer). This $97 price also included one Motorola 6412 cable box with no DVR features enabled, and one cable card for my Sony recorder. This did include all their digital channels and all the premium movie channels.

Anyways, my bill has been $97 a month since last September. I just got my newest bill and the new price is $155.67! That's almost a 60% increase! I called to confront them about this and the best they could do is $125 for exactly the services and features I have now, plus they would throw in a DVR cable box that including the full DVR features. I went ahead and dropped my service to Lifeline basic for $12 plus their slowest internet access for $25 making my bill with tax at $38 a month. This whole process took an hour of my time! And to add insult to injury they are charging me the pro-rated $155 a month fee until a week from tomorrow which is the quickest they can get the cable guy out to get my cable card, my box and shut off channels above number 18! So in essence, I’m losing out on almost $40 for services that I want cancelled right now.

I called DirecTV, which I have an account with through my company, and they offered me their new $299 HD DVR for $19.95 but with only one movie channel for around $85 a month, but with a 2 year commitment. I'm going to hold out for a better deal even though I would be happy with the DirecTV offer since they are adding over 50 HD Channels next month. I just don’t like being locked in to a contract. The HD DVR wouldn’t even be mine. They lease them now.

I’m ready to say screw them all and just stick with my MovieBeam to order movies on Demand and my $9.95 Blockbuster total access account. And use my Sony recorder for the HI-Def OTA channels.

Sorry buddy, but the deal you signed up for was a one year deal. Everyone who signs with the cable company has that happen to them. While I feel sympathetic that you wern't aware of what you were in for, you have to listen carefully to them.

I cancelled all my Premium Channels except HBO just before my year was up because I knew that was going to happen.

Now you can complain and probably have them kick the price back for a few months but that's about it. I pay 129.00 total including H.S. Internet, HD Tier, and Digital cable. If you're getting everything they offer then that's probably the correct price. And as far as your DVR goes, no satellite company sells them anymore. They are all leased except if you get a TiVo S3 or Tivo HD DVR.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not looking for sympathy, and I was aware it was a one year deal, but I just thinks it's ridiculous how much cable/satellite cost now a days.

I'd rather put the extra $90 a month towards a new car then for TV. TV is not that important to me.

On another note, I called the National U-Verse number and they had no info on when it was coming to my area. Has anyone heard anything about this cable service coming to the west side soon?

Thanks for your reply. I'm not looking for sympathy, and I was aware it was a one year deal, but I just thinks it's ridiculous how much cable/satellite cost now a days.

I'd rather put the extra $90 a month towards a new car then for TV. TV is not that important to me.

On another note, I called the National U-Verse number and they had no info on when it was coming to my area. Has anyone heard anything about this cable service coming to the west side soon?

Well if you were aware of the one year deal then what was the point of the post? I suppose sometimes just getting it off your chest can make you feel better, but to be honest some of us have had some real horror stories that have happened and your tale of woe was, well, a bit disappointing.;)

If you don't watch TV that much then just cut back on your services. I think you can get basic cable cheap if OTA reception is a problem. As far as U-Verse goes that will be an alternative but in the meantime your only other alternative is satellite and that eventually will cost about the same as cable. I had one of their packages and paid 139.00 and that was 3 years ago, didn't include internet nor the cost of my TiVo service.

Anyway good luck to you. Hope you feel better now that you've wrote about it.

Thanks. I do feel better! I just can't stand Time Warner. This isn't my only gripe with TWC. Last year when I got my cable card, 3 separate installers couldn't get it working on my Sony HD-250. I finally read somewhere on the TiVo Series 3 forum on what to tell the TWC customer service agent to do on the phone to get it working. Needless to say I wasn't happy wasting 3 Saturdays trying to get it installed and ultimately having to get it installed myself.

Every since Comcast left my bills have gone up and I've gotten less programming (like free HD on demand movies). I finally said, enough is enough. I guess the point of my post too was to fish out other alternatives and it doesn't sound like there are any.

Sounds like I got a canned response anyway. And if anyone knows what IControl is, please clue me in.

Dear Mr. Hookbill:
Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
Thank you for contacting our office regarding HDTV networks. We do anticipate in the future, when a larger group of programmers and a wider scale of programming options are available in the HDTV format, that Time Warner will be offering more HD service. Time Warner Cable would like to provide all of the HDTV signals available. We are currently negotiating with several networks and hope to have an agreement in the very near future. This HD programming is being positioned as pay programming and Time Warner Cable wants to make sure that we negotiate the best possible rate for those of our customers who want to subscribe to this. We are however, hopeful that an agreement will be reached soon. We hope to carry these new and exciting channels soon and in the meantime we hope you will enjoy all the cutting edge services such as I Control that we already offer. Should you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact our office.
I hope that this information is helpful to you. Thank you for the opportunity to serve you. The cornerstone of our philosophy has always been to provide "excellence in customer service" and we will continue to provide the high quality of service you expect and deserve from Time Warner Cable.
Sincerely,
Aaron
Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative

Following is a list of MPEG4 HD channels currently in "engineering test" (with applicable channel) on D*. Info taken from AVS Forum:
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11463978&postcount=1

9800 CSTV
9801 FSN Midwest
9802 FSN Bay Area
9803 FSN Houston
9804 Disney Channel
9805 Animal Planet
9806 FSN North
9807 FSN New England
9808 FX
9809 Toon Disney
9810 ESPN News
9811 FSN Northwest
9812 FSN New York
9813 CD USA "The 101"
9814 Cinemax HD
9815 National Georaphic
9816 FSN Pittsburgh
9817 MSG
9818 MTV
9819 HBO West
9820 NBA TV
9821 FSN Rocky Mountain
9822 SportsNet New York
9823 A&E
9824 Starz Edge
9825 NFL Network
9826 FSN South
9827 YES
9828 Starz West
9829 Starz East
9830 NHL
9831 FSN Southwest
9832 Science Channel
9833 History Channel
9834 Showtime West
9835 Outdoor
9836 FSN West
9827 SportsSouth
9838 Discovery
9839 Movie Channel
9840 Tennis Channel
9841 FSN Prime Ticket
9842 Speed
9843 Fuel
9844 HGTV
9845 Spike
9846 Sun Sports
9847 Starz Comedy
9848 Big Ten
9849 CNN
9850 Comcast SportsNet Chicago
9851 FSN Ohio
9852 Sho Too
9853 The Weather Channel
9854 TBS
9855 Cartoon Network
9856 FSN Cincinnati
9857 Starz Kids & Family
9858 Bravo
9859 Comedy Central
9860 Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic
9861 FSN Florida
9862 TLC
9863 CSN West
9864 Versus
9865 MASN/ SportsTime Ohio
9866 Altitude
9867 Cinemax West
9863 Sci-Fi
9869 MHD
9870 FSN Arizona
9871 Chiller/ SAC MNT
9872 ABC Family
9873 USA Network
9874 Nickelodeon East
9875 FSN Detroit
9876 NESN
9877 CNBC
9878 The Food Network
9879 VH1

Cox Cleveland just added:
#723 A&E HD
#729 National Geographic HD

rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.

TW is going to have to make some moves quick to keep up with that type of competition. And the solution is SDV but I can't see how they can implement it when they can't even get their cable line up straightened out.

Speaking of SDV, those of you who have TiVo's may be interested in this:

Hijacked from tivolovers.com. From the recent FCC filing:

The pertinent section begins on page 32 under the header “SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS”.

II. SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO MODIFICATIONS

Switched Digital Video (”SDV”) is a highly efficient bandwidth management technology employed by cable operators to transmit digital channels to customers on an “as-needed” basis. AT&T’s U-Verse video service utilizes SDV to deliver all of its channels throughout its entire footprint. Cable systems traditionally transmitted all channels simultaneously to all customers, requiring the use of bandwidth for all channels even if few — or no — customers were watching a particular channel. By contrast, when a digital customer tunes to an SDV channel, the channel is only sent to those customers that wish to view it. As a result, when an SDV channel is not being viewed, bandwidth is available for other services.

SDV preserves bandwidth so that it can be used for deployment of innovative new services. The recovered bandwidth can be used to deliver more High Definition, Standard Definition and on-demand channels. Indeed, the recovered bandwidth is essential for cable operators to deal with the digital broadcast transition. The bandwidth can also be used to deliver faster “bonded” channels with dramatically improved “wideband” Internet speeds of 100 Mbps; digital voice service; and more interactive two-way services. SDV promotes broadband deployment and adoption and causes less disruption for consumers because SDV, like on-demand service, uses intelligent network management techniques to expand digital capacity without tearing up the streets to install additional fiber.

It is in everyone’s interest for cable operators to use their networks more efficiently, and SDV technology allows the cable operators to do so. Unfortunately, as designed, one-way UDCPs are not capable of accessing SDV channels: SDV channels require two-way device functionality. In order to address this issue, the cable industry has worked with CE companies such as TiVo to arrive at a solution that can provide two-way SDV channels to one-way digital cable products through an external device attachment to the UDCP.

Under this approach — arrived at through private discussions outside of regulatory compulsion — a small “Tuning Resolver” adapter could be made available to the UDCP consumer. With only firmware modifications to new UDCP products, and a USB 2.0 connection, properly equipped UDCPs could receive programming offered on SDV channels. Many currently deployed UDCPs, including TiVo DVRs, have one or more USB 2.0 connectors and might even be upgradeable with firmware for SDV.

Licensing and testing of this optional feature of a UDCP will be provided under the existing DFAST agreement in a manner similar to that submitted to the FCC by various signators (TiVo, Motorola, Digeo, Solekai, Digital Keystone, and ViXS) for the optional M-CARD interface for UDCPs.68 That is, execution of a DFAST addendum, one-time verification testing, and self-verification thereafter.69

68 Nov. 13, 2006 joint submission in this docket by CableLabs, TiVo, Motorola, Solekai, Digeo, Digital Keystone and ViXs to implement Multi-stream CableCARDs for UDCPs.
69 Some verification testing is required, but it is likely to be minimal. For SDV to operate properly, the host must operate correctly with the cable headend when an end user has tuned away from a switched channel, or when the channel has remained unchanged with no evidence of user involvement or interaction (i.e., the user leaves the TV on and tuned to the switched channel, but then walks away from the TV for some extended period of time). Here, the host should act in sync with the headend to notify the end user of the pending switch (for example, display “are you still watching?”) before the reclamation of the channel.

I got this info from fellow forum member nextoo on the TiVo S3 thread. Looks like the S3 will not become the door stop everyone said it would.

Is this the one, Andrew?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8275993&type=product&id=1171058029451

The online check doesn't show it available at any local BB I can find...if that's wrong, I might run by a BB on the way home from work tomorrow.

Yes, that's the one. There were quite a few stores sold out, but I found mine in Montrose. It's nice to have a portable ATSC tuner, but keep in mind that digital signals are trickier than analog, and may require an external antenna on this TV (unless you're really close to the transmitters). The analog tuner isn't the best, especially crappy with VHF. Other than that, it's a decent digital portable TV.

Cox Cleveland just added:
#723 A&E HD
#729 National Geographic HD

While I was hoping for something more along the lines of something we actually watch, 2 more channels is still an improvement.

Sounds like I got a canned response anyway. And if anyone knows what IControl is, please clue me in.

IControl refers to On Demand movies where you pay $2-4 per movie. TWC doesn't use that designation in the Cleveland region:
http://www.triadtwcable.com/cableserv/icontrolmovies.htm

so you definitely got a canned response...

And as far as your DVR goes, no satellite company sells them anymore. They are all leased except if you get a TiVo S3 or Tivo HD DVR.
You can still purchase E* DVR's from internet vendors, however their lease deal is probably the safer way to go (I own a 921 which is now obsolete thanks to MPEG4). You can purchase a 622 from The Dish Store for $479:
http://www.dishstore.net/index.php?cPath=66

rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.



Just read that they are now saying 100 by the end of the year; plus, Fox News just announced they are going HD before the end of the year. D* will obviously add Fox as soon as possible since Murdoch owns both.

Lots of the adds are Fox Sports. We already have Fox Sports Ohio which includes Indians in HD. Big 10 channel will be HD within a couple weeks and it's showing over 90% of the games in HD.

P.S. Glad to hear that your beloved S3 is now at less risk.

rlb - Wow. I didn't know that many HD channels existed.

Actually not all of them do yet. For example, Comedy Central has not announced any HD plans at this point. The problem with engineering information getting out is that people assume that the information is final. There's a lot of crazy talk going on in some of the forums. Some point out the Comedy Central example and others claim that it MUST be coming soon because it's on an engineering test list.

D* going to have a great lineup, but it'll be a rollout that lasts a few months.

Does any know if WKYC will show the PGA tour event on a sub channel today? The Tribe game is the scheduled program with golf coming on after the Tribe for an hour.

Does any know if WKYC will show the PGA tour event on a sub channel today? The Tribe game is the scheduled program with golf coming on after the Tribe for an hour.

No they won't. You'll get what's left after the Tribe game and thats it.:)

Hey guys,

Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?

Thank for your help,
Ben Music

Here's an article about it from Engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/31/directv-hr21-pro-gets-leaked/


Hey guys,

Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?

Thank for your help,
Ben Music

Hey guys,

Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?

Thank for your help,
Ben Music

Above article gives the basics. However, the primary difference is that the HR20 is available and the HR21 is only in a sort of limited "beta" test (i.e., you can't call and say that you want one).

DirecTv would luv if everyone wanted an HR21. That way they can charge the customer for local networks the customer could normally get for free via ota. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want the HR20 w/ota tuner. Also, D* only offers a few of the locals available.

Hey guys,

Does anyone out there in NEO, that has Directv, know what the difference between the HR20 and the HR21 HDTV receivers is? Someone told me that they thought they were the same, except that the HR21 had no ota tuner. Can anyone confirm this?

Thank for your help,
Ben Music

DirecTv would luv if everyone wanted an HR21. That way they can charge the customer for local networks the customer could normally get for free via ota. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want the HR20 w/ota tuner. Also, D* only offers a few of the locals available.

D*'s system is down now and I can't get to my account. But per my memory, I'm 99% sure than I don't pay anything for my local HD stations. Believe they are part of my overall package which includes HD.

However, I agree that I prefer the flexibility of having the OTA stations available.

D*'s system is down now and I can't get to my account. But per my memory, I'm 99% sure than I don't pay anything for my local HD stations. Believe they are part of my overall package which includes HD.

However, I agree that I prefer the flexibility of having the OTA stations available.

When I had D* it was 5 bucks for the locals. I'll bet you pay at least that much.

rlb if you subscribe to locals with D* HD locals are free.


Question and I cant find the answer I know its in this thread, but why do WKYC and WOIO broadcast at such low power? I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?

Hi,
I'm not sure about power requirements but I suspect they're allowed a certain power level and can't go stronger due to interference with other stations. Besides that, it seems the VHF channels can travel much farther with lower power than UHF channels.

When I last looked it up, WKYC 2 was 8kw and WOIO 10 was 3.5kw. Those numbers pale in comparison to the others.

I think it's a trade off in a way. The VHF channels go further on lower power but your customers might lose the signal due to interference or storms more often.

UHF channels have much less chance of interference but cost more to run due to high power requirements to reach the same audience.

I suspect this is why Fox is going to vhf 8 -- to save money on transmission cost. Our channel 31Fox(8-1) has always come in perfectly, I sure hope we don't lose it after the move.

Tom

rlb if you subscribe to locals with D* HD locals are free.


Question and I cant find the answer I know its in this thread, but why do WKYC and WOIO broadcast at such low power? I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?

When I had D* it was 5 bucks for the locals. I'll bet you pay at least that much.

Just checked my bill. I get the HD MPEG4 locals and am billed for the following:
06/16 07/15 TOTAL CHOICE PLUS Monthly 51.99

06/16 07/15 HBO and SHOWTIME Monthly 24.00

06/16 07/15 HD Access Monthly 9.99

06/16 07/15 Network: FOX HD Monthly 0.00

06/16 07/15 DIRECTV DVR Service Monthly 5.99

I forget but maybe my level of service (choice plus) includes free locals. However, it includes the channels my wife wants; therefore, as far as I'm concerned I pay no extra for locals (HD or otherwise). Also included in this are the two HR20's I get from them. They are "leased", but with no monthly charge other than the DVR Service cost which doesn't increase with added HR20's. My up front cost for the two new HR20's was a total of $299.

Following available at dbstalk regarding D*'s current MPEG4 HD expansion: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1084708&postcount=1

Asterisk (*) indicates HD channel available only with H20, H21, HR20 and HR21 receivers.

September 2007
A&E *265
Big Ten Network HD *220
Cartoon Network *296
Cinemax HD East *512
Cinemax HD West *514
CNN HD *202
Discovery HD Theater 76
ESPN HD 72, *206
ESPN2 HD 73, *209
Food Network HD *231-1
FSN New York HD *624
The Golf Channel HD (shared with Versus HD) *604
HBO HD East 70, 509, *501
HBO HD West *504
HDNet 79
HDNet Movies 78
HGTV-HD *229-1
The History Channel HD *269
Madison Square Garden HD *621
MHD (HD only) *332
The Movie Channel HD *544
NFL Network HD *212
National Geographic Channel HD *276
Showtime HD 71, 543, *537
Showtime HD West *540
Smithsonian Channel HD (HD only) *267
Starz Comedy HD *519
Starz HD East *520
Starz Edge HD *522
Starz Kids & Family HD *518
Starz HD West *521
TBS in HD *247
TNT HD 75, *245
Universal HD 74
Versus HD (shared with The Golf Channel HD) *604
The Weather Channel HD *362


October 2007
Animal Planet HD *282
Bravo HD *273
Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD 680 *640
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD 681, *629
Discovery Channel HD *278
Fox Business Channel HD *359
FSN Detroit HD *636
FSN Prime Ticket HD *653
FSN Southwest HD *643
FSN West HD *652
Fuel TV HD *612
FX HD *248
NBA TV HD *601-1
New England Sports Network HD 682, *623
The Science Channel HD *284
Sci-Fi Network HD *244
Speed Channel HD *607
SportsNet New York HD 683, *625
USA Network HD *242
Yankees Entertainment & Sports HD 684, *622

Important but surprising option for me was the fact that we will be able to get rid of some current MPEG2 (HD lite) stations. Example would be HBO East. By moving from "70", where I currently get it MPEG2, to "501", I will get the MPEG4 mirror of the the SD channel. With a little luck, this will significantly improve the HD quality.

I live in Green and can get FOX and ABC no problem at all with a indoor antenna, but WKYC and WOIO dont even show up, I do have a uhf/vhf and have adjusted the rabbit ears till I am blue in the face and still cant get anything...so back to the question why are they at such low power, and are they going to boost it up sometime soon?

Hey Stuart,
You could probably receive all stations ota with a different antenna design. Even though the rabbit ear says VHF, I think to receive channel 2, the element has to be somewhere near 8 ft. long. When WKYC switches to position 17, I'm hoping things will be better for all of us.

cheers,
Tom

Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said :(. any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.

Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said :(. any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.
Possibly what is affecting you reception is the terrain between you and the WOIO & WKYC transmitters (which are next to each other). You do not mention if you get WBNX. Their transmitter is next to WOIO.
WJW, WUAB & WEWS is a few block farther west. It's possible that the Richfield peak is blocking your reception, just as that same peak blocked the Akron stations form a large part of Cuyahoga County.

Its true that VHF takes a lot less power than UHF to reach the same coverage area, however WOIO is crippled by being on a channel that has an analog Canadian station right across the lake, so they have to protect that station, which will still be on the air in analog long after the U.S. stations end the transition.

I do got WBNX at a 78-83 signal, its frustrating because I can get all cleveland locals in at 75- 90 and I cant get nbc and cbs :( thanks for the thought micheal.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet about WKYC, but we've mentioned it in here a dozen times before: WKYC's biggest problem isn't being a VHF station, it's being on the absolute worst VHF channel position, 2.

If you've ever seen sparklies on WKYC's analog 3 signal, that's digital interference. It's A) even worse on 2, where the DT station lives, and B) those sparklies mean you can't reliably even receive the digital signal in much of the area, unless you have a powerful rooftop antenna properly tuned to that channel (VHF in particular).

Indoor antenna? 20-plus miles away from the Parma antenna farm? Good luck to you on that!

This will go away when WKYC moves its DT channel to 17, when WDLI/Canton vacates analog 17 for DT 39 at the digital switchover. WKYC has already filed for this move.

Tom I am have a RCA Antenna. when I was in mogadore I had a attic antenna and could get all cleveland locals great (after adjusting) and even got youngstown cbs and a couple other stray channels. now I move to green, live on a ranch on the top of a hill, I dont have a attic that I can throw a antenna up into like at mogadore, and thought for sure that I could pick up the locals as I am only 35 miles out from them...well like I said I get abc and fox in at 90 and get the akron pbs, plus tbn, and wuab, but that is it, not even a blip on the vhf signal....is there an ideal position that I should have this thing at (fully extended, in a v etc...) also when does fox move to VHF I hope not soon, or I hope that dish network gets cleveland locals up as my time warner took a dump on me last week because I am 400 feet off the road and there system cant handle that strain they said :(. any help is apperciated! also is there a antenna you recommend that works good in my area? other then a rooftop antenna as its hard to get up there.

I doubt you'll ever be able to get WOIO or WKYC with an indoor antenna from your distance. I in Orrville at just about 38 miles south of the towers. I have decent elevation too. Just like you, I could get everything but WKYC and WOIO with my indoor antenna. Putting the rooftop antenna up was the thing that did the trick. As others have said, there is just too much interference and other issues to deal with in the case of those two stations.

I ALWAYS get WOIO with the rooftop antenna. Never a problem, even at this distance. WKYC is there most of the time too, definitely more than it is not.

If the rooftop antenna is not an option, you should still have a great chance of getting CBS and NBC out of Youngstown from your location. I get them here at 60+ miles. There is definitely some voodoo involved with getting OTA reception. But it so worth it when you get it all worked out!

I do got WBNX at a 78-83 signal, its frustrating because I can get all cleveland locals in at 75- 90 and I cant get nbc and cbs :( thanks for the thought micheal.
I live in Green too. Even with a big rooftop antenna, NBC only comes in well enough to even watch about half of the time.

Fortunately, I found from another post on this forum that Time Warner includes all the local channels in unencrypted QAM 256 on the cable. I get the $12.95/mo Lifeline service along with RoadRunner. (I'm not sure if Lifeline is even needed for this, but I like having the analog channels too, and this way I'm not "stealing" CableTV.)

My HDTVs don't have QAM tuners, but I have a Windows Media Center with an HDHomeRun tuner, which works very well.

If you've ever seen sparklies on WKYC's analog 3 signal, that's digital interference. It's A) even worse on 2, where the DT station lives, and B) those sparklies mean you can't reliably even receive the digital signal in much of the area, unless you have a powerful rooftop antenna properly tuned to that channel (VHF in particular).
I always wondered what the heck those sparklies were on WKYCs analog signal! Now I know. Thanks!

I checked in here yesterday, after a hiatus, to see if there was anything new on WVIZ's signal strength. I know, a foolish wish but what the heck. I even tried a rescan but to no avail. I'm in Brunswick with a Terk HDTVo directional pointed at "the farm" and get great pics from all Cleveland stations.

Well, I thought I'd see what was on the other public station, 49 HD, and I was blown away.

I guess I had just gotten complacent watching sporting events and a few select network shows in HD. All of which come in great on my 42" Panasonic plasma. Well, 49HD had a couple of great HD shows on the Northwest Passage and the great Canadian lodges/hotels of the Canadian Rockies. I was just awestruck at how well the HD shows off nature shots. Unbelievable.

Even had the 22 year old son sit down and watch.

Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.

Hey All,

Nice day to scan for channels, getting WMYD and WLNS with decent levels. 40++.
Pointing 325 from Parma. Been thinking bout taking down the TV antenna to free up space for a 2m (144mcy) Yagi but I couldnt live myself if I did. Too much fun DX'ing
the "Ether".

/Dan

Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.

I stopped giving to them a couple years ago. Got tired of the excuses year after year for no HD.

Edit: Also got tired of paying for the "Antiques Roadshow Channel" and the thinly veiled infomercials from the various self-help gurus.

Every since Comcast left my bills have gone up and I've gotten less programming (like free HD on demand movies). I finally said, enough is enough. I guess the point of my post too was to fish out other alternatives and it doesn't sound like there are any.

Check out www.wowway.com and see if Wide Open West serves your area. You can actually price the various service bundles right there on the website (gasp!) Their customer service and HD PQ are excellent.

I stopped giving to them a couple years ago. Got tired of the excuses year after year for no HD.

Just my 2 cents worth, but several years ago I made a donation to a Los Angeles PBS station (KCET) so I could get a VCR tape of "The Moody Blues, Live at Red Rock." I really don't watch that much PBS.

I was bombarded from that time on by mail requesting more donations. Then after a year went by they started sending them to me like a bill! Almost demanding I donate.

I ended up calling up the station and telling them that I felt they were harrassing me. That stopped it. I'll never donate to PBS again.

Hey All,

Nice day to scan for channels, getting WMYD and WLNS with decent levels. 40++.
Pointing 325 from Parma. Been thinking bout taking down the TV antenna to free up space for a 2m (144mcy) Yagi but I couldnt live myself if I did. Too much fun DX'ing
the "Ether".

/DanI don't recognize either of those call letters. I was able to get 2 Pittsburgh stations: WPXI 11-1, 11-2 (rf 48) and the My Network TV affiliate WPMY 22-1 & 22-2 (22-2 is a SD version of 22-1, last year it had The Tube on the same subchannel).

Have you ever been able to pull in WMFD 68-1 (rf 12)?

EDIT: I just looked up WMYD and WLNS. Detroit & Lansing. The amazing thing is WMYD is digital on rf 21. I'm just a few miles from you, I get WFMJ analog 21 virtually 24/7. You must have one heck of a directional antenna to avoid the interference from WFMJ.

I live in Green too. Even with a big rooftop antenna, NBC only comes in well enough to even watch about half of the time.

Fortunately, I found from another post on this forum that Time Warner includes all the local channels in unencrypted QAM 256 on the cable. I get the $12.95/mo Lifeline service along with RoadRunner. (I'm not sure if Lifeline is even needed for this, but I like having the analog channels too, and this way I'm not "stealing" CableTV.)

My HDTVs don't have QAM tuners, but I have a Windows Media Center with an HDHomeRun tuner, which works very well.

I was thinking of doing this, even though I doubt my tv has a QAM tuner, I wil have to work on something, else but this seems to be the way to go for now...thanks for the idea!

edit: will this work for unencrypted channels because this is my tv?!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Toshiba-42-LCD-HDTV-42HL167/sem/rpsm/oid/178155/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

stuart628,

That TV has built-in tuners (ATSC/QAM/NTSC), so you should be good to go. This does assume that your CATV provider broadcasts Clear QAM channels.

I understand the CNN started broadcasting in HD on September 1 on a separate CNN HD signal. Does anyone know if any of the local cable or satellite companies plan to carry this ?

D* plans on carrying CNN-HD with their upcoming HD rollout. As for when that is, we shall see very soon.....

Best guess is the middle of this month.

well I am hoping that I can still get my qam signals as I have road runner and lifeline right now, and today they said they needed to put some filter on my line as I discontinued my Digital and HD package, I am thinking that filter will killl my chances of getting those channels still- heres to hoping they forget to do it, or dont want to do it as I still have roadrunner and life line! as far as the tv goes I decided not to be lazy and ask you guys everything and went and plugged my line in the antenna section and I got 339 channels (most of which are probably encrypted) but all my HD locals came in! now I am set for the game this sunday, unless that dang filter gets in my way!

D* plans on carrying CNN-HD with their upcoming HD rollout. As for when that is, we shall see very soon.....


I emailed Time Warner Cable this afternoon to see if they had any immediate plans to carry CNN HD. All I got back was some canned response about their endeavors to provide the most HD channels at the best price. No specific mention of CNN HD. Strange that DISH is beating them to the punch when Time Warner and CNN are owned by the same company.

I emailed Time Warner Cable this afternoon to see if they had any immediate plans to carry CNN HD. All I got back was some canned response about their endeavors to provide the most HD channels at the best price. No specific mention of CNN HD. Strange that DISH is beating them to the punch when Time Warner and CNN are owned by the same company.

Just another one of the many cases of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" at TW. I wonder when they get all the thousands of subscribers cancelling their service over the next few months, if they'll actually start "getting things together" or just pass the buck to the customers once again with an enormous hike in their rates. Probably the latter, which will in turn end up running their cable servicing business in the ground for good. You think most of their CSRs and techs are half clueless now?... wait til they start paying them $7/hr :rolleyes:.

Big ten network is up and running on Dish network!! more here...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/106376-dish-launches-big-10-network.html

this is great, as today when I turned in my boxes from time warner, she asked if I had gone to satellite too because of the big ten network, I left because of signal trouble and other issues, but she said she had ALOT of people the last week turning their boxes in and going to satellite

Just another one of the many cases of "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" at TW. I wonder when they get all the thousands of subscribers cancelling their service over the next few months, if they'll actually start "getting things together" or just pass the buck to the customers once again with an enormous hike in their rates. Probably the latter, which will in turn end up running their cable servicing business in the ground for good. You think most of their CSRs and techs are half clueless now?... wait til they start paying them $7/hr :rolleyes:.

You really can't judge all of TW based on what we have here. In areas where they have SDV they are competing with D*. We don't have SDV here and probably won't until they at least get all the line ups one guide. Right now there are about 9 different cable line ups in our area for TW with the addition of Adelphia and Comcast.

And that is why I purchased the S3 because I banked on their inability to implement SDV that quickly in our area. By the time they do the USB dongle should be available for the S3 so it will be two way capable.

But all of that's a while away. I will bet that they will add a bunch of new HD channels at once fairly soon however.

I am so glad that I did not invest in a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD because if I was stuck with Time Warner right now I would put a gun to my head. I can't imagine how they are going to keep any subscribers after they have jacked up their rates so high this month, and with all the DirecTV hi-def channels coming very soon. I hope AT & T U-verse comes sooner than later. My cable bill went up 60% this month and my step-father's, whom lives two cities over from me on the west side, went up 50%.

I'm only holding onto Lifeline Basic and internet access for now hoping they come to their senses so I can get a TiVo S3 or TiVo HD.

well I am hoping that I can still get my qam signals as I have road runner and lifeline right now, and today they said they needed to put some filter on my line as I discontinued my Digital and HD package, I am thinking that filter will killl my chances of getting those channels

I have TW Lifeline only; original analog customer for a few years. When I plugged in the new HDTV, all I had to do was scan for digital channels. The local HDs come over RF 101 and higher. We get a fair share of them, including WVIZ and quite a few sub channels like WUAB's The Tube broadcast in SD.

I can't justify a $50+/mo TV bill for what little we may watch. Keeps the kids outside and playing as well! :p

I have TW Lifeline only; original analog customer for a few years. When I plugged in the new HDTV, all I had to do was scan for digital channels. The local HDs come over RF 101 and higher. We get a fair share of them, including WVIZ and quite a few sub channels like WUAB's The Tube broadcast in SD.

I can't justify a $50+/mo TV bill for what little we may watch. Keeps the kids outside and playing as well! :p

FYI TiVo Pony just announced tonight that TiVo to Go and MRV will be available for TiVo HD and S3 in November. You will not be able to transfer HD recordings to an S2. You will be able to transfer HD recordings so long as they are not copyright. This also applies to SD recordings on the S2. So network shows and the like will be able to be copied on the S3 and maybe transfer to your new TiVo HD or vice versa.

FYI TiVo Pony just announced tonight that TiVo to Go and MRV will be available for TiVo HD and S3 in November. You will not be able to transfer HD recordings to an S2. You will be able to transfer HD recordings so long as they are not copyright. This also applies to SD recordings on the S2. So network shows and the like will be able to be copied on the S3 and maybe transfer to your new TiVo HD or vice versa.
That is sweet news! I have been waiting for this functionality for a long, long time. Are you gonna pickup another TiVo HD or S3 now?

Do you know how the playback functionality works? More specifically, when you click on a show to watch via MRV, does it play immediately, or is there a download from one TiVo to the other that occurs? And if the later, any idea (ballpark) how long that might take to download an hour long HD show?

I'm so thrilled about this announcement. Now I essentially have four HD tuners for the HD TV in the basement.

That is sweet news! I have been waiting for this functionality for a long, long time. Are you gonna pickup another TiVo HD or S3 now?

Do you know how the playback functionality works? More specifically, when you click on a show to watch via MRV, does it play immediately, or is there a download from one TiVo to the other that occurs? And if the later, any idea (ballpark) how long that might take to download an hour long HD show?

I'm so thrilled about this announcement. Now I essentially have four HD tuners for the HD TV in the basement.

I'm embarrassed to admit but "how" this works is something I don't know because prior to my S3 the only other TiVo experience I had was with D-TiVo and there wasn't any TTG or MRV. I imagine that it all work with the TiVo Desktop and you can transfer shows from one "Now Playing List" to the others. But I'm not sure.

I am extremely excited by this and yes, I do plan to get an HD TiVo for my upstairs HD TV. For me will eliminate any problems with conflicts, specially with the Network shows they only have once a week. But I'm going to wait until it's actually implemented before purchasing one - just in case. While I'm happy TiVo Pony has announced it and I do believe it will be in November, I wouldn't want to buy one now and have to wait until November 31. TiVo Pony has done stuff like that before. Like promising in the Fall the update for the S3 Winter release - and it was released in Winter - February 07.:)

I'm embarrassed to admit but "how" this works is something I don't know because prior to my S3 the only other TiVo experience I had was with D-TiVo and there wasn't any TTG or MRV. I imagine that it all work with the TiVo Desktop and you can transfer shows from one "Now Playing List" to the others. But I'm not sure.
Ok, so I did a little research on this and here's the goods...

Transferring Programs Between DVRs
(Multi-Room Viewing)

When you have more than one DVR connected to your home network, you
can easily transfer programs between them. Here’s how it works:


- Go to the DVR that you want to transfer programs to. For this example,
let’s call it the Bedroom DVR.

- At the bottom of the Bedroom DVR’s Now Playing List, highlight the
DVR you want to transfer programs from. Let’s call this the Living
Room DVR.
- DVRs in your home network are marked on the
Now Playing List by the DVR icon.
- Press SELECT to see the Living Room DVR’s
Now Playing List.

- Find the program you want to transfer from the Living Room DVR to
the Bedroom DVR. Highlight it and press SELECT.
- Select Watch on this TV. On the Getting Program screen, you can choose
to watch the program as it is transferring, or continue browsing the
Living Room DVR’s Now Playing List.
- If you watch the program as it is transferring, you might experience
intermittent delays in the transfer, depending on your network speed.
Once the program is transferred from the Living Room DVR to the
Bedroom DVR, the recording exists in both locations. If you delete the
program from one DVR, you can still find it on the other.

It sounds pretty darn easy to me!

Ok, so I did a little research on this and here's the goods...


It sounds pretty darn easy to me!

Even easier then I thought. But what else would you expect from TiVo?;)

Does anybody know if WKYC took a fiber feed from Cleveland Browns Stadium for the preseason games, or if that was via sat ?

Indians games are via fiber to WKYC from the Jake, correct?

yes the tribe games are via fiber from the jake to wkyc, not sure about the connection from cbs to wkyc. im going to assume that they just used a satellite, since it was only 2 games, and they use satellite for indians away games.

Does anybody know if WKYC took a fiber feed from Cleveland Browns Stadium for the preseason games, or if that was via sat ?

Indians games are via fiber to WKYC from the Jake, correct?

Yes, camera feeds are backhauled to the station via fiber and switched in a control room there.

Just wanted to report some disappointing discussions I had with Cox today.

First up -- they have no plans to carry WBNX-55 in HD or Digital. According to the technician with whom I spoke, they're under no obligation to carry it, in spite of the fact that it's a local broadcast station. To say this surprised me is a bit of an understatement.

Second up, I bought a TiVo HD last night, and talked to a technician who informed me that yes they had multistream cards. Today, I called again to make an appointment. (Apparently, the technician couldn't make an installation appointment.) When I called today, I was informed that they don't offer multistream cards. (Though, their DVR boxes do, in fact, use them.) As with Channel 55, they also have no plans to offer multistream cable cards.

As two additional heads up, the cablecards they offer are the Scientific Atlanta models. Those have an issue with TiVo HDs (though that issue may have been fixed in the latest software patch from TiVo). Also, when I asked about getting an appointment to have cablecards installed (no, you can't DIY, though, you're expected to be able to maintain them yourself, which is the same bloody procedure), they told me it'd be over a week for an appointment.

So, the TiVo went back. Maybe I'll look into it again in a year or two.

I checked in here yesterday, after a hiatus, to see if there was anything new on WVIZ's signal strength. I know, a foolish wish but what the heck. I even tried a rescan but to no avail. I'm in Brunswick with a Terk HDTVo directional pointed at "the farm" and get great pics from all Cleveland stations...

Guess WVIZ just lost there yearly donation from me.

I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises. Maybe they just feel that their crappy STA is sufficient for now, but this is disappointing for OTA viewers like me.

On another note, I decided to take my new portable 5" TV with ATSC tuner with me as I drove around Akron today. I attached the silver sensor, and I was shocked at how well I could receive WKBN-DT at different locations around town. I tried the Chapel Hill Mall, the Montrose area near I-77, and the State Road shopping area in Cuyahoga Falls. With almost no effort, I could get a 100% signal. This was a surprise for me since I have never been able to view this channel due to my location half-way down the valley.

I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises. Maybe they just feel that their crappy STA is sufficient for now, but this is disappointing for OTA viewers like me.

Ther are certain aspects of their DTV tower issues that are out of their control. I know they've been trying to get this resolved for a long time. Cut them some slack; I know they're still working on it.

As two additional heads up, the cablecards they offer are the Scientific Atlanta models. Those have an issue with TiVo HDs (though that issue may have been fixed in the latest software patch from TiVo).

What's the "patched" software version number? Inquiring minds want to know...
;)

I have to agree with you on this. I checked WVIZ's website, and there is absolutely no sign for when they plan on boosting their power up to normal on the digital end. In fact, they have not updated this information on their website for a year. This is extremely disappointing since they have not made good on their past promises.

My prediction - they will get some kind of special exemption from the FCC and go past the analog cutoff date with the low power transmitter. We won't see WVIZ until 2010 or beyond.

My prediction - they will get some kind of special exemption from the FCC and go past the analog cutoff date with the low power transmitter. We won't see WVIZ until 2010 or beyond.

That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.

That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.

And even if it would be possible, for whatever reason, it wouldn't be smart for WVIZ to keep its low-power STA past 2009.

I mean, after all, analog 25 goes away at the cutoff date, and it would turn the market's largest PBS affiliate into a digital LPTVer, basically! Almost no one with an antenna and no cable/etc. would be able to even watch them. Their donations would drop through the floor.

On another note, I decided to take my new portable 5" TV with ATSC tuner with me as I drove around Akron today. I attached the silver sensor, and I was shocked at how well I could receive WKBN-DT at different locations around town. I tried the Chapel Hill Mall, the Montrose area near I-77, and the State Road shopping area in Cuyahoga Falls. With almost no effort, I could get a 100% signal. This was a surprise for me since I have never been able to view this channel due to my location half-way down the valley.

I also bought that TV, by the way...found it in a BB having been returned by someone, so I got $20-ish off the new price.

And between one of those locations and you, I've mentioned that I can get WKBN-DT with the right antenna positioning and elbow grease out my south-east facing window. I'm sure if I took a decent antenna up the road a bit, I could get it.

BTW, I don't think the TV has a 5th gen tuner. The one in my USB HDTV card outperforms it.

Another problem I just thought of: There's no way to manually scan in channels, in either DTV or analog mode! I can understand the former, but don't understand the latter.

BTW, that TV has other quirks. It won't properly fit 4:3 upconverted programming to fill the screen..."auto" stretches it up, but won't stretch it out. 4:3 programming in 480i works fine.

Not the greatest PQ, but I don't expect much for 5". :D

BTW, that TV has other quirks. It won't properly fit 4:3 upconverted programming to fill the screen..."auto" stretches it up, but won't stretch it out. 4:3 programming in 480i works fine.

Not the greatest PQ, but I don't expect much for 5". :D

What is the difference between a 5th generation tuner and the tuner in this portable TV? I have 3 digital tuners, and they all seem to perform equally. I hook up the same antenna to all three tuners, and they all seem to get the same digital reception. These tuners are a Zenith HDV420, a built-in tuner for a Philips 26" TV, and the portable 5" Insignia TV tuner.

That cut off date is firm. I don't believe it will be possible to get an exemption.

Oh, somethin' tells me the crafty critters in Congress can come up with a special exemption for the "publicly owned" PBS stations... Just call me a cynic, LOL...

Hey, I'll put my money where my mouth is, if WVIZ-DT is full power before the analog cutoff, they've got $100 from me.

If you have TWC cable, you should be able to get WVIZ-HD 24/7. I live in Lorain County (Former Comcast area) and pick it up on ch-214. Other TWC areas may find it on a different channel position. I know as far as OTA is concerned, it's a no go for now. I believe the signal is pumped in via fiber to our headend.

Hope this helps,
Ben Music

And even if it would be possible, for whatever reason, it wouldn't be smart for WVIZ to keep its low-power STA past 2009.

I mean, after all, analog 25 goes away at the cutoff date, and it would turn the market's largest PBS affiliate into a digital LPTVer, basically! Almost no one with an antenna and no cable/etc. would be able to even watch them. Their donations would drop through the floor.

Paragraph one I agree with but not for the reasons you state.

Let's say WVIZ doesn't make any changes. Do you really think that it would affect donations that much? I personally believe that the vast majority of people get their HD television either satellite or cable. Most people who don't have cable do it because either they can't afford cable, hence they would not donate anyway, or because they are hard core OTA practitioners like we have hear in our local forum. Now those people with OTA HD would indeed not donate but I am saying they are probably an insignifigant amount.

Anyway as I said earlier, I don't care what they do since I ain't givng them a dime one way or another.;)

What is the difference between a 5th generation tuner and the tuner in this portable TV? I have 3 digital tuners, and they all seem to perform equally. I hook up the same antenna to all three tuners, and they all seem to get the same digital reception. These tuners are a Zenith HDV420, a built-in tuner for a Philips 26" TV, and the portable 5" Insignia TV tuner.

They should be similar on strong signals, but the 5th gen tuners handle multipathing much better. If a signal's getting bounced around, it is supposed to keep it more stable. Are the Philips or Zenith tuners 5th gen? That's a relatively recent development.

Now those people with OTA HD would indeed not donate but I am saying they are probably an insignifigant amount.

Anyway as I said earlier, I don't care what they do since I ain't givng them a dime one way or another.;)

Here's the problem. It's not OTA HD, it's OTA ANYTHING.

Right now, in stores across America, just about any new set above 20" has (mandated by law) an ATSC digital tuner. I'd have to check the deadline, but it now appears nearly ALL sets sold in stores (that are not selling clearance/holdover stock) have the ATSC tuners, even the 13" ones.

All of those sets will likely be in service in 2009. We're not talking HT owners looking for HD, we're talking that the only BASIC over-air service for the sets in question will be the DT signal. And by that time, even the cheapest sets won't pick up WVIZ over-the-air, period, unless WVIZ-DT goes to North Royalton and powers up. There will be NO analog 25 out there to receive.

How many WVIZ viewers watch via cable/satellite only? I dunno. I'm not saying it'll wipe them off the map to have a low-power temporary signal at the 2009 cutover, but you can bet they won't let that happen if at all possible.

If WVIZ/analog 25 dropped to a power level so low you can't pick it up unless you're basically within shouting distance of the station's former studios on Brookpark Road in Parma, do you think they'd let THAT stay that way for long? That's what the OTA DT signal will be starting in Feb., 2009, their ONLY signal.

They may be able to get a waiver for DT 26 - that, I wouldn't know - but since it's their only over-air signal after 2/09, they won't WANT one.

BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.

Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.

Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.

They should be similar on strong signals, but the 5th gen tuners handle multipathing much better. If a signal's getting bounced around, it is supposed to keep it more stable. Are the Philips or Zenith tuners 5th gen? That's a relatively recent development.



Here's the problem. It's not OTA HD, it's OTA ANYTHING.



True. Very true. I often forget that digital doesn't mean HD.

Well, either they will do something or as Paule123 says they will go to the FCC and cry, "wha wha, poor Public Broadcast, we have no money.":rolleyes:

I see no reason they shouldn't be on board by then. They've known about this for sometime now.

BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.

Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.

Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.

Yes, I commented on the macroblocking in the other thread. TSReader showed that WeatherNow was hovering around 3.6Mbps. Last year football season it hovered around 2Mbps.

BTW, just confirming that Browns/Steelers was in HD on WOIO/19 this afternoon.

Lots of macroblocking coming out of fast action. It would appear to me that WOIO didn't lower the bandwidth on their "WeatherNow" subchannel.

Of course, the way the Browns played, they'll be lucky not to appear on CBS next week in black and white, let alone in HD.


The Browns game was horrible in HD- fast moving macroblocking and on my display it looked like it was in and out of focus a lot- even the graphics were blurry at times. I thought maybe my system was screwed up until I switched to the Fox game- it was fantastic. CBS/19 should be ashamed of themselves(the Browns should too BTW).

I see no reason they shouldn't be on board by then. They've known about this for sometime now.

The biggest problem here, of course, is not that WVIZ doesn't WANT to up their digital signal. The problem is that they have that ongoing dispute with CBS Radio, which owns their North Royalton transmitter site. I have NO idea why that hasn't been resolved, when we'd heard it was going to be resolved by LAST Summer!

You're onto something with the money thing. I believe most PBS stations got government grants of some sort to even buy much of the digital equipment in the first place.

The Browns game was horrible in HD- fast moving macroblocking and on my display it looked like it was in and out of focus a lot- even the graphics were blurry at times. I thought maybe my system was screwed up until I switched to the Fox game- it was fantastic. CBS/19 should be ashamed of themselves(the Browns should too BTW).

No kidding.

Yeah, I didn't need to analyze the stream to know that WeatherNow was not cut back. (It's barely worth it to begin with, BTW. :D)

The blurry graphics were a result of the same problem WKYC has had on and off with Sunday Night Football and other fast moving sources. The encoder can't "keep up" with the fast motion, and the picture as a whole gets blurry for about 2-3 seconds after the motion ends. Then, after that, it sharpens up again.

WOIO this afternoon looked EXACTLY the same. The PQ was nearly as much an embarrassment as the Browns' play. (And that's saying a LOT.)

I should go upstairs to the HD set to see if the blur effect is still present on SNF.

OK, I really didn't sit there and "watch" that lopsided a** kicking but when I did look at it I didn't see any problems with the picture. Of course I get my picture through TW. I wonder if that is why?

And I also want to comment that without Dolby 5.1 that makes a heck of a difference in the quality of a HD football game. I thought the San Diego, Chicago game looked and sounded great.

OK, I really didn't sit there and "watch" that lopsided a** kicking but when I did look at it I didn't see any problems with the picture. Of course I get my picture through TW. I wonder if that is why?

And I also want to comment that without Dolby 5.1 that makes a heck of a difference in the quality of a HD football game. I thought the San Diego, Chicago game looked and sounded great.


My viewing was through TWC as well. It looked like garbage. Fox's broadcast through TWC looked fantastic though.

I watched it via TWC / Clear QAM and I was concerned it was my TV. Then I remembered that WOIO is too damn cheap with bandwidth and sound, and wrote it off as them.

The SNF on WKYC was great but not perfect compared to that, even with the fast motion. At least the Dallas Cheerleaders in HD helps one get over it :cool:

Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?

Anytime I stop to see what's playing there via TW/QAM, I get a rapid digital stutter in the sound. It's worse than a CD skipping.

Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?

Yes. This has been going on for a while now. I posted about this a while back.

The picture is really great. The audio needs fixed. Perhaps they are still having encoder issues. I really wanted to watch Nova last night, but the audio makes it impossible to get through the whole program.

What is WVIZ talking about when they say they're having "tower issues"? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

On another note, it looks like WVPX will not operate their digital channel on rf 59. I'm sure many people were aware of this. I checked the FCC database, and I finally noticed a new application for WVPX to use channel 23 for their digital broadcast.

What is WVIZ talking about when they say they're having "tower issues"? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

On another note, it looks like WVPX will not operate their digital channel on rf 59. I'm sure many people were aware of this. I checked the FCC database, and I finally noticed a new application for WVPX to use channel 23 for their digital broadcast.

The WVIZ "tower issue" is the fact that they don't own the tower and their "landloard" (CBS INC. owners of WNCX) won't let them put up a 2nd antenna.

When 2009 comes around the will "flash cut" from analog to digital using the same antenna that now is used for analog 25.

"Flash cut" is also what WVPX is going to do in 2009.

BTW: those of you wanting PBS HD, WEAO's HD feed is the exact same programming 25/7 as WVIZ's. The only thing you miss by not getting WVIZ-DT are the SD (and audio only) subchannels.

By the way, SNF on WKYC/NBC looked a LOT better than the Browns/Steelers earlier in the day on WOIO/CBS.

There was virtually no macroblocking. I caught the "blurry picture after fast graphics" once or twice, but not every time.

The difference had to be the subchannels, as measured elsewhere (and/or here?) by our own Paule123. WOIO had WeatherNow up over 3 Mbps, and WKYC throttled NBC Weather Plus to under 2 Mbps! BIG difference.

You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.

You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.

You also can't have good ratings for your news when you do tabloid yellow journalism. You also can't have real good HD without Dolby 5.1 Surround.

Yet WOIO just marches along it's merry little way, don't they?:rolleyes:

You also can't have good ratings for your news when you do tabloid yellow journalism. You also can't have real good HD without Dolby 5.1 Surround.

Yet WOIO just marches along it's merry little way, don't they?:rolleyes:

Maybe I should have said "you just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i HD with a subchannel over 3 Mbps and not look as crummy as WOIO does all the time".

:D

Thinking ahead a couple weeks from now, TBS is going to be doing a good chunk of ALDS/NLDS games as well as the NLCS. Does ANYONE have TBS-HD on their system?

http://www.tbs.com/stories/story/0,,113630,00.html

I guess D* is gonna have it, but I seriously doubt my cable company WOW will have it in time.

Maybe TWC will carry on HDBON? (HD Bonus channel where STO-HD games air...)

Maybe TWC will carry on HDBON? (HD Bonus channel where STO-HD games air...)

Heh Heh. And pigs may fly.......

I'll be in Hermosa Beach California for the first week of the play offs. I'm sure I'll find a local tavern to watch some of the games.

Anyone else having frequent millisecond sound drop outs on WEAO-DT (49.1) via OTA reception?

Perhaps they are still having encoder issues.

Emailed and received a worthy response from Pat Weed:
Thank you for your interest in our programming.

Yes, we are aware of the audio drops on the HD programming. The encoder we are using was state-of-the-art in 2003 (at a cost of $350K) when we began digital transmission. Recently, PBS began transmitting the signal to us via satellite using a slightly updated data stream. The encoder is not capable of handling the signal well, and that causes the occasional “hiccups”. We have a new encoder in the works and hope to have it in place by the end of the year. We are sorry for the inconvenience, but this digital transmission is still in its infancy. It is well worth the effort however!

Thanks again for watching PBS 45 & 49.

End of the year isn't so bad, considering we're half way through September ;)

Well, everyone pretty much knows how that goes though. Their "target date" is the end of the year, which means it will probably be fixed some time around August :).

Breaking news.....

Charlie Frye traded to Seattle.....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7214446

Breaking news.....

Charlie Frye traded to Seattle.....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7214446

Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.

I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.

Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.

I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.

I'm personally a huge Tribe fan, but the fact that our former starting QB was traded (while inevitable) is big news in this town. Besides, I thought it was a refreshing break from your constant TiVo updates Hook! ;)

I'm personally a huge Tribe fan, but the fact that our former starting QB was traded (while inevitable) is big news in this town. Besides, I thought it was a refreshing break from your constant TiVo updates Hook! ;)

Touche' :)

I'm not happy I guess unless I'm rocking the boat. True this is big news and deserving of you mentioning it. I just get the feeling that this town doesn't support the Tribe the way it should and that was my point.

Oh and speaking of TiVo updates (you brought it up) S3 and HD TiVo owners can download 3 pilots of new NBC shows free at Amazon unbox. Unfortunately they will not be in HD.

Interesting. Here's some real important breaking news. The Tribe is in first place and are pennant contenders.

I really don't understand what's up with this town. For heavens sake get behind the Tribe and worry about the Clowns, I mean Browns later.

I try to be a Browns fan as much as possible, but I pretty much agree with you.
Ever since the old Tribe team was dismantled and the "rebuilding" period started, it seems as if most people don't even know that the Indians are still here, and about to win the Penent as well.
I understand that football was born in NE Ohio, and I am a football fan too, but for goodness sake... WHERE HAVE ALL THE TRIBE FANS GONE??
Come on guys, smells like October, and that means playoffs!
GO TRIBE !!!!!

Oh ya, GO BROWNS! After all, it couldn't get any worse. Could it?... could it?

hookbill, he takes a lickin and keeps on tickin... and so does his S3. :)

Thinking ahead a couple weeks from now, TBS is going to be doing a good chunk of ALDS/NLDS games as well as the NLCS. Does ANYONE have TBS-HD on their system?

http://www.tbs.com/stories/story/0,,113630,00.html

I guess D* is gonna have it, but I seriously doubt my cable company WOW will have it in time.

Not sure how baseball playoffs go, but are there any playoff games that would air on STO? It'd be nice to get STO to air the away games in HD for playoffs.

Ok Cleveland here's your chance! Get behind the Tribe. Here's a comprehensive list of remaining regular season games available in stunning HD.......

Friday, September 14, 7:05pm Kansas City- STO
Saturday, September 15, 7:05pm Kansas City- STO
Sunday, September 16, 1:05pm Kansas City- WKYC
Monday, September 17, 7:05pm Detroit- STO
Tuesday, September 18, 7:05pm Detroit- STO
Wednesday, September 19, 12:05pm Detroit- STO
Friday, September 21, 7:05pm, Oakland- STO
Saturday, September 22, 7:05pm, Oakland- STO
Sunday, September 23,1:05pm, Oakland- WKYC

Not sure how baseball playoffs go, but are there any playoff games that would air on STO? It'd be nice to get STO to air the away games in HD for playoffs.

No playoff games will be on STO. Expect to see them on FOX-HD and TBS-HD.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1048907&highlight=

Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.

I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.

</bitter rant>

Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.

I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.

</bitter rant>

IF the Tribe gets to the playoffs it will be on the channels HD MM mentioned. The Tribe has no control over that, post season is controlled by MLB.

I am supporting the Tribe to make it to the post season - however if they play the Red Sox I may have a tough time rooting for them. I've been a Red Sox fan since I was 16.

And if by some miracle they end up playing the Dodgers in the W.S. (not much chance of that) I would definitely root for the Dodgers. I've been a fan of them since I was 3.

Hope you understand....:)

By the way, SNF on WKYC/NBC looked a LOT better than the Browns/Steelers earlier in the day on WOIO/CBS.

There was virtually no macroblocking. I caught the "blurry picture after fast graphics" once or twice, but not every time.

The difference had to be the subchannels, as measured elsewhere (and/or here?) by our own Paule123. WOIO had WeatherNow up over 3 Mbps, and WKYC throttled NBC Weather Plus to under 2 Mbps! BIG difference.

You just CAN'T run fast action sports in 1080i D with a subchannel over 3 Mbps. You just can't.

For those of you that can get both WOIO-DT and WKBN-DT can you see a difference? Both have subchannels, but only WKBN has DD5.1. Also WKBN's subchannel is their LPTV FOX affiliate that runs an NFL game at the same time as our Browns game is on (the game we miss in the Cleveland market due to a home game being aired). I'm sure they use more bandwidth for a SD FOX feed than Weather Plus.

I'm only watching the HD signal downrezzed to an SD set so I'm not the best judge.

It looks like WKBN-DT is using 60% of its available bandwidth, and WOIO-DT is using about 70% of its available bandwidth.

is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna

i also cant get cbs woio-dt now

all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me

is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna

i also cant get cbs woio-dt now

all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me

I don't know much about OTA but from what I've read in this forum WKYC is difficult. They also have a substream for their "Weather Now" channel. You probably need more then rabbit ears.

I can't get anything OTA with rabbit ears, so I use cable.

Now I just got a mental picture of hookbill hooking up that S3 to rabbit ears. Too funny:)

Now I just got a mental picture of hookbill hooking up that S3 to rabbit ears. Too funny:)

Well I did. What the heck is so funny?:confused:

Hey people all over the country have reported success with the S3 and just rabbit ears. I really didn't expect it to work but I thought I would give it a shot.

Well, at least I put a smile on somebody's face.:cool:

What's funny is, IMHO, no sane person would spend that much loot on a piece of equipment like the S3, and then hook rabbit ears up to it :). Most people who can afford to shell out enough money for a piece of high end equpment, can also afford to pay for the best HD signal possible to be piped into it. (this is opinion, not fact ;))

What's funny is, IMHO, no sane person would spend that much loot on a piece of equipment like the S3, and then hook rabbit ears up to it :). Most people who can afford to shell out enough money for a piece of high end equpment, can also afford to pay for the best HD signal possible to be piped into it. (this is opinion, not fact ;))

As we go off topic (again) on Hook's precious S3, I'd just like to share with others what else you could get for your hard earned money instead of forking over nearly $800 for an S3. Just thought it was interesting in how much more (IMO) you can get for your money instead.....

TiVo S3 for $800 or........

ViP622 or HR20 ($199) +ViP222 or H20 ($100) +PS3 ($499).....

or of course you could get 800 Jr. Bacon Cheesburgers from Wendy's for $1 each. :)

Now wait a minute. I never went off topic I was talking about OTA HD and tried to share a bit of my knowledge of what I heard about WKYC. Smartypants was the one who brought up the S3.

And you can get 800 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds. But do you mention that? Noooooooooo....:)

Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.

I just hope the Tribe's playoff games are available to ALL, and hopefully a higher percentage than the 2 of 9 remaining regular season games.

</bitter rant>
I believe that if you get cable, you get STO. My parents have just have a basic "broadcast" package in Erie, PA, and they get STO along with TBS and the major cable news outlets.

CBS released their HD plans through week 3 of their NFL coverage. Looks like the Browns will be in SD only the next two weeks; against Cinci this week and then again next Sunday against Oakland.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

I believe that if you get cable, you get STO. My parents have just have a basic "broadcast" package in Erie, PA, and they get STO along with TBS and the major cable news outlets.

Here in Canton, if you get the basic package which is called Lifeline Basic, you only get analog channels 2-22. That's all, except for if you have a QAM tuner, you can get all the locals in HD and a few other DT stations. To get STO, you must buy the Expanded Basic service that costs $50/month.

Tribe support dissipated with the local OTA broadcasts and/or free cable channel(s). Same thing will happen with the Cavs.

</bitter rant>

Thats a rediculous statement.

Indians support dropped back in 2000, well before they switched exclusively to cable televion.

Its more in line with the return of the Browns, the terrible Cleveland economy, and the fact that fans are stupid and still want to see Omar Vizquel, Albert Belle, Jim Thome, and Charlie Nagy play.

Over 80% of people have cable, dish, etc, meaning they have access to STO. Its not like switching to cable cut out half their fan base. It cut out a small portion of it.

Rambozo:
Yes, I get the sound burps even with a strong signal OTA. Drives me nuts. It could be super rapid dropouts. But the video is usually stable.
JJK

is anyone able to pull in nbc (wkyc-dt) here??? i cant for the life of me get a signal with my rabbit ears antenna

i also cant get cbs woio-dt now

all the other OTA digital stations come in perfect for me

Where are you located? I get WKYC-DT with rabbit ears, but I can see the tower out my back window. Even that close it takes some time adjusting the rabbit ears. Reception is not guaranteed even if the tower lights are reflecting off my neighbor's windows (which they literally do).

Rule #1 for WKYC-DT - you need to pull the rabbit ears out to the maximum extension. If that extension does not equal 8 feet get another set of rabbit ears that are large enough.

Rule #2 for any indoor antenna - put it by a window that faces the direction of the transmitter. Siding, brick, and insulation mangles the OTA signals even here at "ground zero". A window (preferably with no screen) is the only interference-free location to place an indoor antenna.

A rule of thumb: if the analog picture is crappy using that antenna, you will probably not get a good lock on the digital signal for that station.

All TWC digital services are out here in my area, from the Green office. It appears to be localized to my neighborhood. Of course, this includes the QAM HD signals...

Unless I missed something, I'd be hard pressed to get a decent signal for some of the Cleveland channels, right?

to update, and give a answer to dj9, I live on mayfair Road in Green, and I put up an antenna yesterday (I had a indoor one and got fox abc out of the big 4) well I climbed up on the roof and put a antenna up and now get everything at about 76% ACROSS the board, i am going to tweak it a little and try and get an extra foot or two on my pole as that way it will clear the roof peak, and I think I should be good to go! so putting up an antenna on the roof is not as hard as I thought it was going to be!

Tonight the Tribe kicks off their last home-stand of the season for a 9 game stretch. Each and every game is available in glorious HD on either STO-HD or WKYC-HD. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11590104&postcount=9613) for schedule, times and channel info.

Also, here is a great article by critically acclaimed and recently added columnist to the Plain Dealer, Terry Pluto. If you haven't checked out his column yet today, it is an excellent read. Enjoy.......

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/118975940330620.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

No love again for the Browns. Week 4's CBS-HD Schedule is out and reveals that yet again the Browns will not be shown in HD for the 3rd consecutive week (Week 1: HD, Weeks 2-4: no HD). Good news for HD Browns fans though is that week 5 they play the Patriots, so most likely they will receive HD treatment then.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

No love again for the Browns. Week 4's CBS-HD Schedule is out and reveals that yet again the Browns will not be shown in HD for the 3rd consecutive week (Week 1: HD, Weeks 2-4: no HD). Good news for HD Browns fans though is that week 5 they play the Patriots, so most likely they will receive HD treatment then.

http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

Although CBS is giving more HD this year when it comes to Cleveland and the Browns it's like bottom of the barrel. They want to use their available HD for what they consider "important" games.

Personally I'm looking forward to Sundays game with the Bengals. Does anybody think that idiot that plays for the Bengals will actually jump into the dog pound if he scores down there? He doesn't have enough armour to handel those guys.:)

It looks like WKBN-DT is using 60% of its available bandwidth, and WOIO-DT is using about 70% of its available bandwidth.

You know what's killing WKBN there is the null packets (0x1FFF on that screen shot) that the Fox network sends down to the local stations. My understanding is if the local station is multicasting as WKBN is, they should be stripping the null packet stream off in-house and not passing that OTA to the viewers. If I read that right, WKBN is pissing away a good 3.5Mbps of bandwidth and causing both channels to suffer in PQ.

Re the Tribe in the playoffs - time to tell your providers to get TBS-HD by October 3 ! I have yet to hear back from WOW cable on this ! It's too bad we won't see any playoffs in glorious 1080i on STO. If TBS-HD baseball is similar to TNT-HD's basketball, there will most likely be PQ issues.

Does anybody think that idiot that plays for the Bengals will actually jump into the dog pound if he scores down there? He doesn't have enough armour to handel those guys.:)

Depends what the score is and how empty the dawg pound is at that time of the game.

You know what's killing WKBN there is the null packets (0x1FFF on that screen shot) that the Fox network sends down to the local stations. My understanding is if the local station is multicasting as WKBN is, they should be stripping the null packet stream off in-house and not passing that OTA to the viewers. If I read that right, WKBN is pissing away a good 3.5Mbps of bandwidth and causing both channels to suffer in PQ.

Perhaps Mr. Zocolo is still lurking here, and share some information on this!

This is my first post, so I apologize if this problem has come up already and I didn't realize it.

I have Dish Network and a VIP622 box. I live in Strongsville and have an RCA Model 1250 amplified antenna. I have always been able to get the 'Big Four' local channels in HD (as well as several others). Three days ago all of my OTA HD stations suddenly showed a zero signal strength. The SD stations still come in. So, I still receive 003-0 (WKYC) in SD, but I cannot receive 003-1 or 003-2 (WKYC in HD and their weather station ).

Does anyone know what happened? I tried resetting the entire system, unplugging the antenna and then resetting it, but to no avail. Every time I perform a local channel scan in the System Setup area it finds no local digital channels.

Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks and have a good evening...

Regards,
Scott

Hi Scott,
I would suspect that the RCA amplified antenna died. You are so close the the broadcast antennas that the analog signals could make it through the dead antenna amplifier. A second possibility is that your TV's digital OTA tuner died.

Grab a cheap pair of rabbit ears and see if you're getting anything. You should be able to get most of the local digitals with that, if you're that close to Parma (the Cleveland market's so-called "antenna farm", with all those tall towers up in the air).

If you get NOTHING out of that, maybe there's a tuner problem.

http://www.antennaweb.org/

Go there and plug in your address, and you can find how close you are to the antenna farm.

All the local TV stations are camped out on large towers in the general vicinity of Parma and nearby. Nearly all of them are near, or a very short drive, from Parmatown Mall. A couple of 'em are a bit further south (i.e. WVIZ/25's analog tower is in North Royalton - and no, you probably won't get WVIZ-DT...their digital setup, due to a long-time legal and technical dispute with CBS Radio and its predecessors, is a small stick atop their former Brookpark Road studio site).

Thanks Kevin and Inundated. I'll try out your suggestions and let you know what happened. Have a good one...

Regards,
Scott

Never had this until today. Got my TERK pointed right at the farm from Brunswick at a pretty high elevation.

All other channels aokay ... even WKYC 3 DT

Anyone else?

Well they fixed it by going to SD. Thanks for the quality WOIO

Well they fixed it by going to SD. Thanks for the quality WOIO

WOIO didn't go to SD, CBS did. The Browns/Bengals game was not in HD today. (And it turned out to be a game you'd WANT to see in HD!)

At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.

At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.

Well, we all would but if you read this thread at all you would have seen that HD MM has been keeping us updated on Browns scheduled telecast and this one, nor next week will be in HD. Week 5 against Pats is the next scheduled HD telecast.

And while I agree it must have been an exciting game with the high scoring at all, The Tribe was on in HD at 1:00. And while the outcome was not as exciting as the Browns, that was the game to watch. YMMV

At this point, I want to see EVERY game broadcast in HD already.

I believe the NFL contract requires all games in HD next season.

CBS is doing much more this year than last year, and when more Sunday games get peeled off the schedule later this year (i.e. NFL Network, etc.), very few games won't be in HD on CBS.

I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.

I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.

I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.

See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!:)

Of course, it's supposed to be in HD. I'm watching it on Sunday Ticket in HD...


I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.

See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!:)

I just checked to see if it was suppose to be in HD. Zap2it.com says HD.

See geocab, you're correct. WOIO is screwing up after all!:)

I guess "if we would read this thread at all" the answer is buried in here somewhere. Right?

I see that someone forgot to flip the switch at Channel 19. The late game is in HD on Sunday Ticket, but not on Channel 19.

Yep, someone's asleep at the switch at WOIO. It was in HD on WKBN.

Did WKBN show the Browns game? I think I remember the problem. Since the Browns game ran way long, there's a problem switching to HD after the second game starts. At least I THINK this was a problem in the past.

I guess "if we would read this thread at all" the answer is buried in here somewhere. Right?

It's on this page. Real tough to find. (sarcasam)

WOIO didn't go to SD, CBS did. The Browns/Bengals game was not in HD today. (And it turned out to be a game you'd WANT to see in HD!)

Big time Bengal fan here. I for one am thrilled that the game wasn't broadcast in HD! ;) It was more than I could stomach in SD.

I didn't see this one coming. I would have bet my HDTV that the Bengals would have won that game.

Congrats to all you Browns fans on the win. It was fun to watch.

I would have bet my HDTV that the Bengals would have won that game.

When do you want me to come pick it up?;)

When do you want me to come pick it up?;)

I said, "I WOULD have bet my HDTV." Lucky for me I'm not that big of a fool. Although I do feel like a real sucker sometimes for following these BUngals... :)

The "D" on those two teams must be awesome.:rolleyes:

I will come out right now and will tell you that the Raiders will win next week in Oakland. Too bad it won't be in HD. (I threw that in there to stay on topic.;) )

I will come out right now and will tell you that the Raiders will win next week in Oakland. Too bad it won't be in HD. (I threw that in there to stay on topic.;) )
Man Hook, you sure do like to stir the pot. But I'll second your prediction. :D

Should I buy this antenna DB8 Multidirectional Antenna. It seems like it is pretty powerful would hurt my signal in anyway going with the biggest baddest it is going in my attic.

Did WKBN show the Browns game? I think I remember the problem. Since the Browns game ran way long, there's a problem switching to HD after the second game starts. At least I THINK this was a problem in the past.

Yes, WKBN showed the Browns game in SD and showed the late game (Jets vs. Ravens) in HD.

Thanks! Obviously Raycom screwed it up again.


Yes, WKBN showed the Browns game in SD and showed the late game (Jets vs. Ravens) in HD.

Thanks! Obviously Raycom screwed it up again.

You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.

I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.

Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.

Winegard.com shows nothing for dealers in Cleveland. Maybe check the channelmaster site?

Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.

They are not local, but I highly recommend www.solidsignal.com . I've ordered OTA antennas and satellite stuff from them and they've been great. They are located in Michigan and shipping prices have always been very reasonable, IMO. (also factor in you will pay no sales tax)

Is there a local shop that sells antenna's preferably winegard so I don't have to pay shipping.
Some of the local electronics shops, while they are not Winegard distributors, will sell some Winegard and Channelmaster antennas. You'll have to do a hit or miss. I've seen Winegards at Radio Shack and Channelmasters at Lowe's.

You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.

I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.

I think Raycom "sucks" as much as anyone on this forum.
But in this case, for weeks CBS has shown this as one of 3 games that would be "SD". The Browns will also be SD each of the next two weeks. Unfortunately, CBS considers our Browns" games of less importance than most. So, when they pick the 2-3 games each week to go SD; the Browns are more likely than most to end up on the list. Believe I've read that next year all games will be HD.

You're missing the point. We're complaining about Channel 19 not switching to HD for the late game, which was in HD everywhere else.


I think Raycom "sucks" as much as anyone on this forum.
But in this case, for weeks CBS has shown this as one of 3 games that would be "SD". The Browns will also be SD each of the next two weeks. Unfortunately, CBS considers our Browns" games of less importance than most. So, when they pick the 2-3 games each week to go SD; the Browns are more likely than most to end up on the list. Believe I've read that next year all games will be HD.

You know this has really got to stop. It's beyond ridiculous. I really think that each of us needs to email Raycom and tell them that this is just unacceptable. Point out that WKBN doesn't seem to have a problem with flipping a switch but somehow they just can't seem to get the system down.

I'm suggesting that we follow up on this. Everyone needs to send an email to them. It's not fair for those *******s to be spoiling the pleasure of our expensive electronic equipment by not doing their parts.

I think it's time to go over Raycom's head. Email CBS! Let them know what a "wonderful" job WOIO is doing as their affiliate in Cleveland. I wouldn't mention WKBN, however, for fear that CBS could do something to stop that powerful signal from invading the Cleveland DMA.

OTOH those of you in the DMA border counties (Ashtabula, Stark, and especially Portage) should start watching all the Youngstown stations in hopes that Nielsen will shift your counties to the Youngstown DMA.

It's too bad that one affiliate could suck so bad as to need a DMA switch. It's too bad that the border areas couldn't get mixed affiliates named as their "locals" (i.e. get Cleveland as your for all but CBS), since the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas as long as Raycom insists on keeping WOIO on rf ch 10. Take a look a few pages back, someone posted the lousy coverage area WOIO-DT has in comparison to all the other Cleveland locals (even WKYC-DT isn't that bad).

STO is partnering with Time Warner Cable for exclusive rights to televise High School football and basketball games. Read press release: here. (http://www.sportstimeohio.com/blogDetail.php?blgId=27)

I think it's time to go over Raycom's head. Email CBS! Let them know what a "wonderful" job WOIO is doing as their affiliate in Cleveland. I wouldn't mention WKBN, however, for fear that CBS could do something to stop that powerful signal from invading the Cleveland DMA.

OTOH those of you in the DMA border counties (Ashtabula, Stark, and especially Portage) should start watching all the Youngstown stations in hopes that Nielsen will shift your counties to the Youngstown DMA.



Funny, I was just thinking the same thing too. Raycom doesn't give a darn about what we think, we need to go to CBS.

The problem with your other idea is you would have to be a Neilson house to affect ratings. And just how many people do you know who are Neilson houses? Probably nobody and if you do know someone do they have HD?

You're missing the point. We're complaining about Channel 19 not switching to HD for the late game, which was in HD everywhere else.

Duh! You're right, I missed the point. However, I was right about one thing. Raycom sucks.

Even if the switch flippers at WOIO get their act together, and we get to see programs in HD; WOIO will be the only local major network affiliate without DD capability. That's not human error, that's just pure cheap and a total disregard for the quality of their product.

I have already shot a email to CBS telling them to give up the rights to the NFL and let a professional broadcasting company that can provide HD take over im sure i will hear from them soon ;) dont you?

I have already shot a email to CBS telling them to give up the rights to the NFL and let a professional broadcasting company that can provide HD take over im sure i will hear from them soon ;) dont you?

That was not what we were suggesting. We want to put the pressure on Raycom (owners of WOIO) to get their HD act together. The NFL on CBS will be 100% HD starting next season. Patience, please! WOIO OTOH is another story. Their ownership has made some bad decisions from the viewer's point of view (no DD5.1, and insisting on being on ch 10 when a Canadian analog station will be in the way of running a full power signal for years after the U.S. transition ends).

Remember how they got the DD 5.1 about two weeks before the Super Bowl last year? Then they gave some lame story as to why they had to "return" the equipment to CBS.:mad:

They've got quite a few shows on my SP and it just pisses me off that there is no DD 5.1.

<snip> since the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas as long as Raycom insists on keeping WOIO on rf ch 10. <snip>

With the proper setup, WOIO-DT's signal does reach "the outlying areas". I'm using a Winegard YA-1713 antenna in conjunction with a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier to receive it. The signal is usually in the mid 70s on my E* ViP 622 DVR. It is in the high 60s tonight but rock solid. I am about 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter. I should note that the antenna is mounted on a 55' tower and my location is on high ground at 1250' above sea level. Your milage may vary.

With the proper setup, WOIO-DT's signal does reach "the outlying areas". I'm using a Winegard YA-1713 antenna in conjunction with a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier to receive it. The signal is usually in the mid 70s on my E* ViP 622 DVR. It is in the high 60s tonight but rock solid. I am about 55 miles from WOIO-DT's transmitter. I should note that the antenna is mounted on a 55' tower and my location is on high ground at 1250' above sea level. Your milage may vary.
Unfortunately your set-up will not help the viewers in Lake and Ashtabula counties, where CFPL-TV's signal booms across Lake Erie with a vengeance.

Unfortunately your set-up will not help the viewers in Lake and Ashtabula counties, where CFPL-TV's signal booms across Lake Erie with a vengeance.

Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.

Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.

I don't doubt that you can receive WOIO-DT in Salem, and especially with that massive antenna setup you have and also considering that it's a VHF channel. I understand that there are some nice outdoor antenna designs that are capable of receiving VHF channels from long distances. But for people like me, it's very frustrating to receive this. I live in an apartment in Akron where I cannot use an antenna setup like you have. I don't have any difficulty receiving the Cleveland digitals, except for WOIO-DT. For me, the signal is very flakey and often breaks up. Perhaps if WOIO-DT was not operating at such a low power, then I wouldn't need to have a huge outdoor antenna.

When WJW-DT goes to channel 8, they plan on using 15.7 kw, which is a much more reasonable power for an upper VHF digital channel. WOIO-DT only plans on using 3.5 kw, which does not give a solid coverage in the city and suburbs.

If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state.
Indeed if you look at the sensitivity plot for the YA-1713 on Winegard's website you will see that cannels 9-11 do offer a high degree of sensitivity directed to a smaller spread angle with little 90 to 180 deg sensitivity. This is designed to eliminate multipath reception but would also work to keep out an overlapping station in the opposite direction. Add a rotor to the setup and I would think it would do a good job filtering out CFPL (all other things being equal).

Why would you assume that it is impossible, Michael? You originally stated, "the digital signal of WOIO will never reach the outlying areas", which is simply not true. Now you're qualifying your original statement by limiting it to apply to Lake and Ashtabula counties. If an antenna setup used in Lake or Ashtabula counties provides enough of a null of signals coming from the north while facing southwest and is topographically and electrically capable of receiving an adequate signal from WOIO-DT, it is not necessarily impossible as you state. It does not make sense for you to state your opinion as an absolute. If there's one thing I've learned over the years when dealing with antenna setups, it is that one should never assume that receiving a signal is possible or impossible at a given location. There are too many variables to state it in absolute terms.
While some viewers along Lake Erie might go to the expense of putting up a system like yours, they would have the additional problem of ingress along the co-ax (I presume your system includes an amplifier). It can be done but they are under an unusually strong signal. CFPL was received as a "local" channel by my Uncle who lived in Conneaut in the 60's. It was stronger than any of the Cleveland or Erie stations!

For years, WOIO has been able to pay the electric bill with 3700 kw of power on their analog channel 19. If they use a UHF digital channel, then it would only take a couple hundred kilowatts, which would still be a lot cheaper than running an analog channel. So why does WOIO-DT remain on channel 10 when it makes it difficult for their OTA viewers? Just compare these coverage maps and see the difference. WOIO-DT isn't as effective in reaching the prime areas.

Coverage for WOIO-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WOIO-DT.jpg

Coverage for WEWS-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WEWS-DT.jpg

Coverage for WJW-DT... http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thereallefank/WJW-DT.jpg

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. I narrowed it down to winegard 7080,7082,or 7084 I can't decide.

Hi everybody,

I have recently put together a budget home theatre composing of an Olevia 32" 720p t.v., Onkyo SR800 home theatre in a box, and a Sony upconverting dvd player.

The next logical step for me was to take advantage of the OTA HD signals. I opted for the ChannelMaster 4228 outdoor antenna.

I braved the heights earlier today and installed it on an old mast of the chimney. Living in Akron (near tangiers) I pointed it north (342deg roughly). Came down from the roof and fired up auto channel search. I was amazed at how many channels I got, and of the clarity of the picture. ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW, PBS... Only dissapointment was that ION doesn't come in hardly at all, and only get 1 PBS statioin.

Can't wait to watch some HD sports. Anyways, thought I'ld give some info on my OTA experience thus far.

-fighting fish

While some viewers along Lake Erie might go to the expense of putting up a system like yours, they would have the additional problem of ingress along the co-ax (I presume your system includes an amplifier). It can be done but they are under an unusually strong signal. CFPL was received as a "local" channel by my Uncle who lived in Conneaut in the 60's. It was stronger than any of the Cleveland or Erie stations!

I don't see ingress as an issue when using high quality coax. If ingress or egress were a problem with high quality RG6 cable, cable tv systems would be broadcasting their signals over the air via their coaxial drops and could be received by anyone in the area with an outdoor antenna. You can read the following paragraphs in context here (http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/towertalk/1997-August/008139.html):

If "leaky" coax truly exists, what is really happening? I have heard it both
ways, claims that signal "leaks out" or that signals "leak in" to a braid.
Neither seems to be valid, as Belden Bulletin "Guide to Shield Performance
and Selection" indicates that "...coaxial shields were found to perform
equally well for both ingress and egress."

Perhaps the most famous "leaky coax" demonstration is taking a 100 ft piece
of inexpensive coax and terminating it in a 50 ohm load. In connecting the
opposite end to a receiver, signals can be noted that allegedly "leak through
the coax braid". When a piece of hardline is substituted for the coax, the signal levels drop
dramatically.

About fifteen years ago our local cable system (TWC) had a cracked line (solid aluminum jacket) on the utility pole across the street from my house, and I was able to pick up their signals with my antenna. When I called them, they sent someone out immediately to fix the problem. Some cable channels are in the aeronautical band; so the FCC takes a very dim view of leakage (egress) from cable systems.

And yes, as I stated earlier, I do use a Channel Master 7777 Titan2 preamplifier.

Residents of Conneaut are going to have a difficult time receiving any Cleveland digital stations considering that it is in far northeastern Ashtabula County, about 70 miles from the transmitters; however, as I stated in my previous post, I believe that WOIO-DT's signal is receivable in many areas of Lake and Ashtabula counties with the proper setup.

Only dissapointment was that ION doesn't come in hardly at all, and only get 1 PBS statioin.


And there's a very good reason for both.

The ION station (WVPX/23) is licensed to Akron, and the analog blasts in from over near Rolling Acres Mall. But WVPX-DT won't go on the air on channel 59 as planned - WVPX will do a digital "flash cut" to 23 at the analog shutoff in 2009. So right now, their digital signal doesn't EXIST.

As for PBS, you're only getting WEAO/49's DT channel, because WVIZ/25's digital channel has roughly the power of a lightbulb - from a small antenna atop their former building on Brookpark Road in Parma. I've seen people IN PARMA say they can't get it.

We've gone over this a few times, but the reason for that is that there has been a LONG-standing legal and technical dispute between WVIZ and the company which operates its analog tower site in North Royalton, CBS Radio (WNCX/98.5 in specific). A lot of this is detailed in FCC filings, as WVIZ has had to constantly ask the FCC for an extension of its STA for the low-power site.

So, the upshot is that WVIZ-DT is a non-signal for anyone in the Akron area, and for much of greater Cleveland. Time Warner Cable picks it up off-air for rebroadcast on HD channel 710, but they have much bigger antennas than any of us :)

You probably won't see WVIZ-DT light up full power any EARLIER than next year. And just a year later, they'll have to go up *somewhere* on the analog tower to replace the dead analog signal.

Thanks for the explanation Inundated!

*edit*
I am receiving much more public broadcasting than I initially thought. I have great reception for WVIZ ch. 25 and also WEAO ch. 49.1 and 49.2!

Awesome

I am receiving much more public broadcasting than I initially thought. I have great reception for WVIZ ch. 25 and also WEAO ch. 49.1 and 49.2!


I'll have to assume that's only WVIZ's analog signal, which has no problem covering Akron. If you're getting WVIZ-DT, I'd like to know how!

:D

ahh, i'm pickin up what your puttin down :)
i am only getting the wviz analog

ahh, i'm pickin up what your puttin down :)
i am only getting the wviz analog

OK, whew!

I'm firmly convinced that the only way most people could pick up WVIZ-DT would be to move to Brookpark Road in Parma.

:D

(Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)

(Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)

Hehe - I've thought about it. I found an FCC web page a few weeks ago that discussed putting up a tower like this for a radio station - suggested reserving almost $2 million, not including the cost of the land, permits, etc.

Of course, a 1000' monster in my backyard might help kick-start my ham radio activity again... :)

mike

I'm firmly convinced that the only way most people could pick up WVIZ-DT would be to move to Brookpark Road in Parma.
(Or to put up a giant cable-headend style antenna in your backyard.)

You're right Inundated. I went up to Parma and Seven Hills last week, and I took that portable ATSC tuner with me. I plugged in the silver sensor, and I could BARELY get a lock on the WVIZ-DT signal. I almost had to drive literally up the street from the transmitter just to get a lock on it. It was very difficult, but I can attest to the fact that it does indeed exist. I don't see how this signal can be viewed by more than maybe like 3 people. They're multicasting PBS HD, The Ohio Channel, WVIZ Analog, Some other channel I forget, and an audio channel.

You're right Inundated. I went up to Parma and Seven Hills last week, and I took that portable ATSC tuner with me. I plugged in the silver sensor, and I could BARELY get a lock on the WVIZ-DT signal. I almost had to drive literally up the street from the transmitter just to get a lock on it. It was very difficult, but I can attest to the fact that it does indeed exist. I don't see how this signal can be viewed by more than maybe like 3 people. They're multicasting PBS HD, The Ohio Channel, WVIZ Analog, Some other channel I forget, and an audio channel.

I live in Bainbridge and have no problem picking up WVIZ-DT.

Of course I have cable so that might have something to do with it.;)

I live in Bainbridge and have no problem picking up WVIZ-DT.

Of course I have cable so that might have something to do with it.;)
And here I thought that your Parrots delivered the signal! (Masquerading as carrier pigeons?)

Inundated
We've gone over this a few times, but the reason for that is that there has been a LONG-standing legal and technical dispute between WVIZ and the company which operates its analog tower site in North Royalton, CBS Radio (WNCX/98.5 in specific). A lot of this is detailed in FCC filings, as WVIZ has had to constantly ask the FCC for an extension of its STA for the low-power site.

I just got a HDTV and I have cable so this is not an issue for me, but a friend has an HDTV w/o cable. I planning to help him with OTA reception this weekend. I just started reading this forum, and maybe I am out of line but I thought I would submit this.

I have not read the entire history of this, but what about going after WNCX / CBS Radio? Mass call ins to NCX's phone lines asking why they are not willing to be helpful to the community by supporting Public Broadcasting. Boycott the the station, find the advertiser list and send them a letter stating that NCX is not helping to provide Digital Public Broadcasting in Cleveland.

E.g. Ganley Auto is sponsoring/supplying a two year lease on a pick up truck for an NCX contest. Tell Ganley that buy advertising on CBS Radio affilliates, they are supporting the effort to keep Digital Public Broadcasting from the Cleveland public.

The other thing would be contact Cleveland City counsel members with the same points that NCX is not being a good citizen. The same goes for congressional leaders and the FCC. All stations have to show they are supporting/active in the community which they serve.

As I wrote this post, I sent a feedback to the studio of NCX asking why they're not helping WVIZ.

I just got a HDTV and I have cable so this is not an issue for me, but a friend has an HDTV w/o cable. I planning to help him with OTA reception this weekend. I just started reading this forum, and maybe I am out of line but I thought I would submit this.

I have not read the entire history of this, but what about going after WNCX / CBS Radio? Mass call ins to NCX's phone lines asking why they are not willing to be helpful to the community by supporting Public Broadcasting. Boycott the the station, find the advertiser list and send them a letter stating that NCX is not helping to provide Digital Public Broadcasting in Cleveland.

E.g. Ganley Auto is sponsoring/supplying a two year lease on a pick up truck for an NCX contest. Tell Ganley that buy advertising on CBS Radio affilliates, they are supporting the effort to keep Digital Public Broadcasting from the Cleveland public.

The other thing would be contact Cleveland City counsel members with the same points that NCX is not being a good citizen. The same goes for congressional leaders and the FCC. All stations have to show they are supporting/active in the community which they serve.

As I wrote this post, I sent a feedback to the studio of NCX asking why they're not helping WVIZ.

I could be wrong but I think WNCX is owned by Clear Channel. If it isn't Clear Channel then it's probably Infinity. Either way that would be a corporate decision, not independet to the station itself.

I could be wrong but I think WNCX is owned by Clear Channel. If it isn't Clear Channel then it's probably Infinity. Either way that would be a corporate decision, not independet to the station itself.

The WNCX website carries no information about Clear Channel, but lists itself as a CBS Radio Affiliate.

Clear Channel's website lists WAKS-FM, WGAR-FM, WMJI-FM, WMMS-FM, WMVX-FM, and WTAM-AM.

It doesn't matter as being a corporate decision or the station. If the station loses audience or sponsors, the corporate owner will take note.

I worked for a year in college as an engineer for a two station AM-FM independant broadcaster. When we changed formats on the FM from elevator music to adult-pop, the owner was nervous as hell for the first 21 hours from the switch over because there was nothing but complaints. Then praises started coming in. That was in September. By Christmas, we were number one in the market, over taking the sister AM station's spot. Owners/managers do not like slipping at all.

That was not what we were suggesting. We want to put the pressure on Raycom (owners of WOIO) to get their HD act together. The NFL on CBS will be 100% HD starting next season. Patience, please! WOIO OTOH is another story. Their ownership has made some bad decisions from the viewer's point of view (no DD5.1, and insisting on being on ch 10 when a Canadian analog station will be in the way of running a full power signal for years after the U.S. transition ends).

It might not be a bad decision. Also, if they wanted to keep CH-19, they would have had to petition for a live cutover in 2009. They may not have been able to keep the equivalent amount of power they have now in 2009. E.g. Grand Rapids DTV CH-19 at 725kw-ERP and Youngstown DTV CH-20 is listed at 460kw-ERP.

We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.

What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.

I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.

If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.

Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.

h2o_skiman, if you'd like to generate your own signal strength maps like Andrew K posted, you can learn all about it at http://tvfool.com/.

We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.

What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.

I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.

If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.

Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.

You're welcome for the coverage maps. This is something that can be downloaded by visiting the following page...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=821480

You have to download the information for the specific designated market area (DMA), like Cleveland for example. You have to have Google Earth, and you also have to have uTorrent, which can be downloaded at...

http://www.utorrent.com/

This is an excellent tool in generating these coverage maps. You can even zoom in to your street level and view the coverage of a particular TV channel. It's rather interesting.

Let me tell you that CFPL is the reason for why WOIO-DT cannot increase their digital power. This is the biggest reason for why WOIO-DT cannot increase their power. CFPL is an analog channel 10 in London Ontario that can be easily viewed in areas such as Lake and Ashtabula counties. Before WOIO-DT went on the air, I could often view this channel here in Akron. WOIO-DT plans to remain at a measly 3.5 kw even after the transition.

Andrew, tvfool.com is Andy S. Lee's site, the poster of the thread you referenced.

It might not be a bad decision. Also, if they wanted to keep CH-19, they would have had to petition for a live cutover in 2009. They may not have been able to keep the equivalent amount of power they have now in 2009. E.g. Grand Rapids DTV CH-19 at 725kw-ERP and Youngstown DTV CH-20 is listed at 460kw-ERP.

We all know that VHF propagates much better than UHF, especially CH2-6. The limiting factor to WOIO's power currently is CH-10 in Columbus OH at 1000kw ERP. The FCC list shows nearby DTV channels for CH-10 in Onadoga Michigan 11.6kw-ERP, Cinncinnati 15.4kw-ERP, Harrisburg 14kw-ERP and Rochester 5.9kw-ERP.

What I have not seen is how much power they will be able to broadcast after the transition in 2009. If they are stuck at 3.5kw-ERP, then we got screwed.

I find it hard to believe that Raycom would purposely decide to lose audience.

If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.

Also, thanks to the poster of the images of the ERP patterns.It takes much less power to broadcast in ATSC (digital) than NTSC (analog) so the comparison between analog & digital transmitter ERP's is a moot, "apples to oranges" comparison.

The bottom line is if not for CFPL WOIO would do fine on ch 10, however CFPL-TV is not going away in Feb. 2009. BTW WOIO's insistance on being on ch 10 has bumped the Columbus station (iirc WBNS) that has been on ch 10 a lot longer than WOIO even existed. I still wonder how they pulled that off. WBNS belongs on ch 10 as their legacy, just as WJW belongs on ch 8. BTW once ch 8's digital signal switches to rf 8 that should be one of the best coverage areas for any N.E. Ohio station.

Even though CBS does not own WOIO, I'm willing to bet the "great FOX swap" of '94 might have something to do with Raycom's insistence to being on ch 10. By WOIO being on ch 10 that puts CBS back on a high-band VHF frequency in Cleveland.

If anyone knows more of the long term ERPs, or links please share them.

Last time I checked, this is what the anticipated ERPs and channels will be after the switch to digital...

8 WJW (15.7kW 305m)
10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m)
15 WEWS (1000kW 311m)
17 WKYC (1000kW 296m)
20 WFMJ (460kW 295m)
23 WVPX (317kW 296m)
26 WVIZ (100kW 313m)
28 WUAB (200kW 337m)
30 WBNX (1000kW 334m)
34 WQHS (525kW 334m)
36 WYTV (50kW 149m)
39 WDLI (200kW 292m)
41 WKBN (700kW 418m)
45 WNEO (388kW 223m)
47 WOAC (1000kW 134m)
50 WEAO (180kW 305m)

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. I narrowed it down to winegard 7080,7082,or 7084 I can't decide.

Anybody?

Okay here we go
I live in Elyria (around 20 miles west from the Cleveland antenna farm) and i need an antenna since dish network dosen't have hd locals. I need an antenna $50 or under that will pick up 3,5,8,19, and 43 in hd. I will list both antennaweb and tvfool info for you guys. Also do you think if the RS DA-5200 will do any good for me. Any help? Thanks, bd8494

P.S. - I am a total newb at this

Antennaweb info:
* yellow - uhf WJW-DT 8.1 FOX CLEVELAND OH 100° 19.0 31
* yellow - uhf WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND OH 98° 18.9 15
* green - uhf WUAB-DT 43.1 MNT LORAIN OH 97° 18.8 28
red - uhf WVIZ 25 PBS CLEVELAND OH 105° 18.0 25
red - uhf WVPX 23 ION AKRON OH 137° 33.8 23
red - vhf WEWS 5 ABC CLEVELAND OH 98° 18.9 5
* red - vhf WKYC-DT 3.1 NBC CLEVELAND OH 96° 20.4 2
red - vhf WJW 8 FOX CLEVELAND OH 100° 19.0 8
red - uhf WOIO 19 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 95° 20.1 19
red - uhf WUAB 43 MNT LORAIN OH 97° 18.8 43
blue - uhf WGGN 52 TBN SANDUSKY OH 279° 36.8 52
blue - vhf WKYC 3 NBC CLEVELAND OH 96° 20.4 3
blue - uhf WEAO 49 PBS AKRON OH 138° 31.0 49
* blue - uhf WVPX-DT 59 ION AKRON OH TBD 137° 33.8 59
blue - uhf WOAC 67 SAH CANTON OH 123° 43.0 67
* blue - uhf WVIZ-DT 25.1 PBS CLEVELAND OH 105° 17.9 26
blue - uhf WQHS 61 UNI Cleveland OH 96° 19.7 61
* blue - uhf WQHS-DT 61.1 UNI Cleveland OH 96° 19.7 34
blue - uhf WBNX 55 CW AKRON OH 96° 20.1 55
* violet - uhf WBNX-DT 55.1 CW AKRON OH 96° 20.1 30
* violet - uhf WEAO-DT 50.1 PBS AKRON OH 138° 31.0 50
violet - uhf WNWO 24 NBC TOLEDO OH 295° 68.8 24
* violet - vhf WOIO-DT 19.1 CBS SHAKER HEIGHTS OH 95° 20.1 10

tvfool attached below:

It doesn't matter as being a corporate decision or the station. If the station loses audience or sponsors, the corporate owner will take note.


FYI - WNCX, as I mentioned, is indeed owned by CBS Radio. It has no connection to Clear Channel...two different companies.

From reading all the FCC filings, the two sides may have actually figured out the technical end of things, but are still kicking some final issues back and forth. Read the below. This is long, but somewhat necessary to clarify what I just said:

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=101135976&formid=337&fac_num=18753


THE PRIMARY BAR TO COMPLETION OF DTV IMPLEMENTATION HAS BEEN CONTINUING NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE OWNER OF THE TOWER ON WHICH THE WVIZ-TV ANTENNA AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT IS LOCATED. THE NEGOTIATIONS CONCERN THE INSTALLATION OF THE ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT NEEDED FOR DTV ON THE WVIZ TRANSMITTER SITE. CBS, INC. AND ITS PREDECESSOR VIACOM, INC., THE PARENT COMPANY OF THE PRESENT TOWER OWNER, HAVE EFFECTIVELY BLOCKED THE INSTALLATION PLANS OF WVIZ, DESPITE YEARS OF WORK BETWEEN WVIZ ENGINEERS AND CONSULTANTS AND PREVIOUS OWNERS OF THE TOWER TOWARD IMPLEMENTATION OF THE WVIZ DIGITAL CHANNEL.

(snip)


THE PARTIES HAVE WORKED FOR OVER THREE YEARS TOWARD RESOLUTION UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE FEDERAL JUDGE, WHO INITIATED A SERIES OF CONFERENCE CALLS WITH COUNSEL IN THE CASE IN ORDER TO AVOID FURTHER LITIGATION. AS A RESULT OF NEARLY THREE YEARS OF EFFORT, ALL TECHNICAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN RESOLVED. NOW THE PARTIES ARE IN THE FINAL STAGES OF NEGOTIATING A LOSS OF BUSINESS INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR VIACOM AS WELL AS THE FORM OF THE DOCUMENT IN WHICH THE PARTIES AGREEMENT WILL BE EMBODIED.



AS SOON AS THE LEGAL ISSUES ARE RESOLVED, IDEASTREAM WILL ORDER THE ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT NEEDED FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF THE ANTICIPATED SIDE-MOUNTED DTV FACILITY. EQUIPMENT DELIVERY SHOULD TAKE PLACE APPROXIMATELY 120 DAYS AFTER ORDERING, AND INSTALLATION WILL BE COMPLETED AS PROMPTLY AS POSSIBLE, DEPENDING UPON THE WEATHER IN THE AREA AT THE TIME THE EQUIPMENT IS RECEIVED. IN ANY EVENT, IDEASTREAM REITERATES ITS INTENTION TO HAVE A PARAGRAPH 78-COMPLIANT FACILITY CONSTRUCTED AS SOON AS IT IS POSSIBLE, AND BEFORE THE FEBRUARY 17, 2009 ANALOG SHUT-OFF. ACCORDINGLY, IDEASTREAM REQUESTS THE FULL 180 DAYS EXTENSION PERMITTED UNDER FCC RULES.

WHILE THE EVENTUAL FACILITY FOR STATION WVIZ-DT WILL EVENTUALLY BE TOP-MOUNTED ON THE TOWER WHEN THE ANALOG ANTENNA CAN BE REPLACED, IDEASTREAM IS NOT PLEADING THE CIRCUMSTANCE IN SUPPORT OF ITS WAIVER REQUEST DESCRIBED IN THE PUBLIC NOTICE AT PAGE 5. THE MODIFICATION TO THE SIDE-MOUNTED FACILITY TO BE PERMITTED BY THE TOWER OWNER SHOULD COMPLY WITH PARAGRAPH 78 OF THE ORDER.


All of this was written in July, 2006, and this particular application was approved in May of this year. I have no idea what has changed in that time frame, or since May.

Technically, it appears CBS/WNCX wants WVIZ to put up a side-mounted antenna for the pre-2009 installation, and the station can then replace its top mounted analog antenna after the shutoff. Legally, it appears that at least of the writing of the above, CBS/WNCX was apparently concerned with the installation proposed earlier.

I'd back off of any threats to boycott or whatnot, frankly. It sounds like they're near resolution, but of course, this being Northeast Ohio and winter being not far off, we may or may not see this nailed down before 2008.

Oh, and E-Mailing the station studio feedback probably gets sent to the on-air person, anyway, who has no idea what any of this is about.

Back off a little. :)

Okay here we go
I live in Elyria (around 20 miles west from the Cleveland antenna farm) and i need an antenna since dish network dosen't have hd locals. I need an antenna $50 or under that will pick up 3,5,8,19, and 43 in hd.

I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna. I bought it for $49.51 plus $16 shipping. I get great reception with this antenna, receiving all the channels you listed and more. I thought 16 bucks was steep for shipping, but it arrived in two days FedEx from Indiana. I'm totally pleased. The cost of my antenna and shipping are about what I would pay for one month of cable t.v.

I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna. I bought it for $49.51 plus $16 shipping. I get great reception with this antenna, receiving all the channels you listed and more. I thought 16 bucks was steep for shipping, but it arrived in two days FedEx from Indiana. I'm totally pleased. The cost of my antenna and shipping are about what I would pay for one month of cable t.v.

Okay thanks for that because I am a total newb at this. :)

Anybody?

Hi,
We own and installed the Winegard 8200(their largest) and it works pretty well on uhf and vhf from about 70 miles away. If possible I'd go with the largest antenna you can deal with like the 7084. That way if the signal is weak for whatever reason(weather or interference), you'll keep a solid signal.

I really enjoy being able to pull in hi-def free off the air.

Let us know if you need help.

cheers,
Tom

Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.

Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.

IIRC, the engineer from WEWS was on here a while ago saying their encoder was causing this problem, so they do know about it. I see the same black bar at the bottom on my Panny 1080p plasma (no overscan)

Does anyone know why WEWS-DT 5.1 ABC CLEVELAND picture have a big gap on the bottom. I have a Westinghouse 32w6 which has no overscan, and this is very distracting. Is there anyone I can complain too.

Good luck complaining about it to anyone. It's been that way for a long time. So I don't think they really care to fix it anytime soon.

Has anyone heard anything about our local Time Warner affiliate adding TBS HD in advance of the MLB playoffs which start October 3rd.

I do not look forward to watching all 4 division round series' in standard definition on my plasma!

Has anyone heard anything about our local Time Warner affiliate adding TBS HD in advance of the MLB playoffs which start October 3rd.

I do not look forward to watching all 4 division round series' in standard definition on my plasma!

If you're planning on watching on TW I would plan on watching in SD. However no one really knows what TW is planning on adding except one member name handsworth and he hasn't said anything in a long, long time.

Perhaps TW will use the 998 channel for Trbe games but I wouldn't bet money on it.

Originally Posted by jenaty
Hello,
My name is Jeff gatchel and I live in Perry OH. I go down to Cleveland Muni Parking lot to tailgate the Browns game. I have a question for you and was just wondering if you could help. I take a 42 inch LCD HDTV down with me and have a Radio Shack Outdoor HDTV Amplified Ant. Cat. #15-2187 Here is the addy for it;
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

I was wondering if you could tell me how to point this thing. I will have it on top of my camper about 12' in the air or a bit higher. I do have lat and lon numbers for muni
Lat = 41.507038
Lon = -81.692826
The channels would be either WOIO or Fox
All I can find is 172.5 for WOIO and 178.6 for Fox Is this a direction to aim with a compass? Would I have to aim that antenna on an angle? lol. I sure hope you can take the time to help me
Thank you very much. You can email me at
jenaty@adelphia.net

I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...

I can't speak about your location in particular. However, I live in Akron and just put up the Channel Master 4228 antenna.

Inside attic mount, or outside roof?

I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...

Interesting. I didn't see that but they must have got a bunch to run that.

And for the record I was right. Raiders won.

Congrats to the Tribe!

Originally Posted by jenaty
Hello,
My name is Jeff gatchel and I live in Perry OH. I go down to Cleveland Muni Parking lot to tailgate the Browns game. I have a question for you and was just wondering if you could help. I take a 42 inch LCD HDTV down with me and have a Radio Shack Outdoor HDTV Amplified Ant. Cat. #15-2187 Here is the addy for it;
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family

I was wondering if you could tell me how to point this thing. I will have it on top of my camper about 12' in the air or a bit higher. I do have lat and lon numbers for muni
Lat = 41.507038
Lon = -81.692826
The channels would be either WOIO or Fox
All I can find is 172.5 for WOIO and 178.6 for Fox Is this a direction to aim with a compass? Would I have to aim that antenna on an angle? lol. I sure hope you can take the time to help me
Thank you very much. You can email me at
jenaty@adelphia.net

Yes, those numbers indicate the compass direction. 0° = north, 90° = east, 180° = south and 270° = west.

I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...

I saw that. Althought I thought it was funny at the time, my laughter was short lived. Brownies/Ravens will be in SD. Three straight frickin weeks.
what do they have agains the Cleveland market?

thank you

I saw that. Althought I thought it was funny at the time, my laughter was short lived. Brownies/Ravens will be in SD. Three straight frickin weeks.
what do they have agains the Cleveland market?

Obviously they don't think this is an important market. Either that or they believe that since "Cleveland" is one of the poorest cities in the country nobody can afford an HD set.;)

I think Cleveland (itself) has a bad reputation. I never say I'm from Cleveland I always say I live "inbetween Cleveland and Akron" which is the truth, or just "Northeast Ohio."

Hi,
We own and installed the Winegard 8200(their largest) and it works pretty well on uhf and vhf from about 70 miles away. If possible I'd go with the largest antenna you can deal with like the 7084. That way if the signal is weak for whatever reason(weather or interference), you'll keep a solid signal.
Also, from your location Jigga Moog, the only stations you could have problems with are the Akron stations. Since you are only 10 miles from the Parma farm, I would not recommend a preamp on your antenna. 20 miles or more, a preamp definately helps things out.

Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24/time-warner-cables-new-hd-channels-in-october/#comments

Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24/time-warner-cables-new-hd-channels-in-october/#comments

Actually it wouldn't surprise me at all if they release some new HD channels. October seems to be a month in the past when Adelphia use to like to do it for whatever reason and with the Tribe in the playoffs it makes all kinds of sense to make TBS available ASAP. Thanks for the link.

I wonder how many phone calls Channel 19 has gotten about HD? They ran a crawl during the Browns game today specifically stating that the game wasn't being broadcast in HD...In addition to the game not being in HD the color of the SD picture looked washed-out. I switched to WKBN-DT and it too had the same washed-out appearance. So this one had to be CBS' fault.

In addition to the game not being in HD the color of the SD picture looked washed-out. I switched to WKBN-DT and it too had the same washed-out appearance. So this one had to be CBS' fault.

I watched on WOIO-DT (non HD) and I too felt it looked washed out.

Inside attic mount, or outside roof?

roof mount. It's off an old rusty mast attached to the non functional chimney. friggin' scary up there, the shingles turn to loose debris under your feet.

FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.

Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.

FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.

Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.

Did the first HR20 give problems ota also? I'll have two HR20s coming soon. Plz keep us updated on your results.

thx,
Tom

I have the HR20-700 (the first model). It used to have OTA issues with Channel 3, but it comes in perfectly now.


Did the first HR20 give problems ota also? I'll have two HR20s coming soon. Plz keep us updated on your results.

thx,
Tom

Could DeMavs problem be simply an update that should be coming forward?

FWIW, I got a 2nd HR20-100 installed yesterday and when I hooked up the OTA, it would not tune to 3-1 either. It seems that "feature" is still present. The silver lining being w/MPEG4 locals you don't really need it unless you really want the weather plus access.

Unfortunately the new HR20 has odd audio glitches on many channels which was bad enough I had it deactivated pending a service call. Quite sad.

I reported the same issue with the HR20-100 a couple months ago. I even got the 2nd tier tech support at D* to call the HR20 program management group. They confirmed that it was a problem (can't receive low VHF signals) which they thought had been "fixed" by a prior firmware upgrade. At that time they claimed that they entered the issue as a problem and that it would be resolved in future firmware releases.

I'm hopeful; but definitely not holding my breath.

Time Warner is rumored to be in the process of adding more HD channels in October. No official announcement has been made, but here is a link with the scoop.....

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/24/time-warner-cables-new-hd-channels-in-october/#comments

Unfortunately no mention of the two I really want to see... VSHD (for NHL) and WBNXHD (for Supernatural).

I have the HR20-700 (the first model). It used to have OTA issues with Channel 3, but it comes in perfectly now.

Maybe the problem is only with the -100s then. Thx for posting.

Anyone using an DirecTv HR20-100 who can bring in WKYC 3.1 via ota?

Could DeMavs problem be simply an update that should be coming forward?

I think you're right. Let's hope so.

Plz keep us updated Mavs.

Guys,

Just spent the last several hours searching through this thread looking for a definitive answer to a basic question...

What clear QAM channels are available via Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland area? I have confirmation that you can get 3,5,8,19, and 43. What about PBS, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD, and MOJO? Thanks!

Guys,

Just spent the last several hours searching through this thread looking for a definitive answer to a basic question...

What clear QAM channels are available via Time Warner Cable in the Cleveland area? I have confirmation that you can get 3,5,8,19, and 43. What about PBS, Discover HD Theater, Universal HD, and MOJO? Thanks!

Every area is different. You'll have to specify exactly what area you live in if you want more help. I won't be of much help though since I live in Canton. I assume you're talking about HD. At the very least you'll get your "3,5,8,19, and 43". However you may get 1 or 2 other HDs depending on exactly where you live. You also may get a dozen or so non-HD digital channels, like TBS, FoodNetwork, FitTV, E!, Discovery, TheTube, etc...

TW is not showing WUAB-HD right now. I've got a grey screen on both my S3 and my HD STB.

OTA guys are you having any problems?

I just joined this forum and thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. I live over in the Fairlawn area where my reception is good at best. I spend 9 dollars a month on "budget basic which gets me all the local channels and SPIKE, Oxygen and CMT (wow). I was content with that for a while until I bought a new Vizio HDTV last month. All of a sudden I had those same channels PLUS HDTV Channels 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 25.1 and a few others 3.1 rarely works and I also have about 30 music channels. Don't ask me why But I did...all for 9 bucks.

I just joined this forum and thought I would put in my 2 cents worth. I live over in the Fairlawn area where my reception is good at best. I spend 9 dollars a month on "budget basic which gets me all the local channels and SPIKE, Oxygen and CMT (wow). I was content with that for a while until I bought a new Vizio HDTV last month. All of a sudden I had those same channels PLUS HDTV Channels 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 25.1 and a few others 3.1 rarely works and I also have about 30 music channels. Don't ask me why But I did...all for 9 bucks.

That's because you are getting unencrypted digital channels.

I guess I should just shut up and not advertise it?

I guess I should just shut up and not advertise it?

No, it's not a secret or anything like that. Just enjoy it and don't worry.:)

Every area is different. You'll have to specify exactly what area you live in if you want more help. I won't be of much help though since I live in Canton. I assume you're talking about HD. At the very least you'll get your "3,5,8,19, and 43". However you may get 1 or 2 other HDs depending on exactly where you live. You also may get a dozen or so non-HD digital channels, like TBS, FoodNetwork, FitTV, E!, Discovery, TheTube, etc...

I live in Sheffield Village but I believe the feed that is set up in XP MCE 2005 is Cleveland Heights, Time Warner Cable. Thanks!

TW is not showing WUAB-HD right now. I've got a grey screen on both my S3 and my HD STB.

OTA guys are you having any problems?

Yes. I did an hour ago; but I'm getting it fine now.

Where are you located? I get WKYC-DT with rabbit ears, but I can see the tower out my back window. Even that close it takes some time adjusting the rabbit ears. Reception is not guaranteed even if the tower lights are reflecting off my neighbor's windows (which they literally do).

Rule #1 for WKYC-DT - you need to pull the rabbit ears out to the maximum extension. If that extension does not equal 8 feet get another set of rabbit ears that are large enough.

Rule #2 for any indoor antenna - put it by a window that faces the direction of the transmitter. Siding, brick, and insulation mangles the OTA signals even here at "ground zero". A window (preferably with no screen) is the only interference-free location to place an indoor antenna.

A rule of thumb: if the analog picture is crappy using that antenna, you will probably not get a good lock on the digital signal for that station.

i live on da eastside of cleveland....less than 10 miles from the antenna farm

i tried extendin the rabbit ears out to as far as they can go but i can never hold the picture on wkyc. i heard most people cant get it since its on a very low frequency (61.25 MHz)

i dont have any windows by my computer so i cant put it by a window and i cant have an outdoor antenna due to living situation