I was planning on buying the VU-120 XR and having it installed by the people who are installing my Direct TV. I have no way to get on my roof. They want to charge alot but I guess they'll do a good job

So what's going on with WKYC and the huge amount of pixalization lately?
I noticed above some complaints about drop outs but not the pixalization.
It occurs at scene changes or any movement in a scene. It looks like like when they "enhance" a video on CSI. First big pixels that get progressively smaller until the picture is clear.
Their picture used to be a lot better even with the multicasting.

CSI is on WOIO. Which station are you really talking about?

sfwiles, SamSneed,
I too live in the NE about the same distance. I have a VU120 on the roof of a 2 story and it works fine. Although lately channel 3 digital hasn't been coming in very well. I get consistently good signals from all other channels.
Jeff

I'm talking about WKYC. I was giving CSI as an example as to what the problem looks like. The picture starts out with larger pixels that get smaller until the picture is correct as they do on any of those drama shows that have someone "enhancing" a photo or video. That happens from one scene to the next. Otherwise the picture is pixelated when there is motion in it. This was very apparent on the NASCAR races and Shrek. It happens all the time and only on channel 3.

Last night I noticed on ER that there was some pretty harsh pixelation during many of the scenes. I was waching via Adelphia & was wondering if it was like that OTA . I need to adjust my antenna so until spring, NBC will only come in via Adelphia.

Anyone with OTA for NBC see this? I'm guessing it's not Adelphia as I've never seen those issues with their ABC-HD feed.

-Todd

News from WVIZ. No digital signal for HD until JUne at the earliest. I was told January last fall, but they have had transmitter problems.Just an FYI. They said the funding was all set for HD

Just found this forum. Could someone give me an answer to a problem I have. I live in Medina, Have armstrong cable with a DCT6200 cable box.
My problem is on Digital stations. 3,5,8 mostly. constantly the audio goes up and down. It gets so bad I change back to SD stations. Its real bad on the local news cast. Is this a station problem or the Box, or Armstrong cable? thanks for help

Definately not a problem with the station the way you described it. The audio will occasionally drop out, but rarely change in volume.

Ive noticed overall that channel 8's volume is louder than the other stations, and channel 3 is softer on their local programming, but normal level on stuff coming from the Network.

Thanks Mike I will call Cable company and have them check box

Originally posted by bubblegum1647
Just found this forum. Could someone give me an answer to a problem I have. I live in Medina, Have armstrong cable with a DCT6200 cable box.
My problem is on Digital stations. 3,5,8 mostly. constantly the audio goes up and down. It gets so bad I change back to SD stations. Its real bad on the local news cast. Is this a station problem or the Box, or Armstrong cable? thanks for help

Are you listening to the audio on your TV or an amp. It probably has nothing to do with your situation but my daughter was having problems with audio going out on one station on her cable box. Called the cable rep in and he changed her TV from stereo to mono and no more problem. Check the settings on your TV, could be something incompatible like simulated surround....

Since the WKYC change to 2-1, I have not been able to get a guide on this channel. All it says is: Regular Programming:(

Does anyone know when this will be fixed?

Thanks,
Fred

Hey Fred,

You aren't getting guide information via OTA are you?? I didn't think they broadcast the guide information.

-Todd

I was....I am still getting it on the other locals(just not WKYC):(

I lost it on 2.1 several days ago and had to rescan. It came back up on 3.1. Never got a guide on OTA......

Originally posted by PPS
So what's going on with WKYC and the huge amount of pixalization lately?
I noticed above some complaints about drop outs but not the pixalization.
It occurs at scene changes or any movement in a scene. First big pixels that get progressively smaller until the picture is clear.
Their picture used to be a lot better even with the multicasting.

I notice the same thing with WKYC. I saw it on Daytona 500, that Rodeo thing last Sunday (which was 4:3 SD). Last night on Leno, the cameraman did this wild gyration with the camera on the band, and you could see the picture go to crap with the extreme movement.

I see it all the time now both OTA and via WOW Cable, so it is their multicasting crap that is not giving us all the bandwidth for a decent picture. I am about to drop a little note to the station about this...

-- Paul

Because audience numbers are still low, many broadcast TV stations are "playing around" with their broadcast bit rates - experimenting with digital broadcasts. A good clean HD signal should be sent out at 19.38 mbps - megabits per second. That is the maximum bit stream a station can transmit within the broadcast bandwidth the FCC licenses them to have.

When TV stations multi-cast they have to reduce the stream size of the HD signal in order to have other SD channels within that 19.38 mbps maximum bit-stream. To make a long story short, they cheat the HD signal of the bit rate needed for a good HD broadcast. Some stations allot less than 10 megabits for the HD signal. That's why you see so much garbage(square looking blockiness) in the image when the picture is complex or there is a lot of rapid motion within the image. At a low broadcast or cable bit-rate, quantizing errors occur in the digital image.

Sadly quality is not the issue with most broadcasters and cable companies. Both businesses like to "cheat" - compress the digital signal down to "what they can get away with". Just because something is "digital" that DOES NOT MEAN IT IS BETTER!! Digital IS BETTER ONLY IF THE SIGNAL IS NOT COMPRESSED TOO MUCH!!! If it is compressed too much the beautiful image you're suppose to being viewing turns to crap.

My suggestion would be to write both the broadcaster and the cable company and ask about the stream size of the HD signal. It should be NO LOWER THAN 17 OR 18 MEGABITS. If it is ask the cable company to increase the rate or tell them you'll drop their service. If a broadcaster is "playing around" with the size of the HD bit-stream ask them to stop. Demand that they provide a better quality signal. If they don't stop then write to the FCC and state your case with them.

Tim Werner - Freelance HD/SD Video Editor
Member - The Academy of Television Arts and Sciences
Television Motion Picture Editors - Peer Group

I called WKYC last week and left a voice mail message about this pixelization problem. The Chief Engineer actually called me back today to discuss it. He wanted to know exactly what type of pixelization problem I was seeing. He said he wasn't aware there was any problem except for the race.

He was very interested and receptive asking me a lot of questions. We also discussed a whole variety of other HD topics.

He has been monitoring the signal on a 30" monitor. He said he'll try to get some feedback on larger sets.

He was aware of the AVS Forum but didn't realize there was an active local Cleveland thread. He said he will be monitoring it.

Channel 3 may have some bandwidth issues, but that's a lot easier to take than the periodic complete dropout of the signal from channel 19. I wind up having to watch most CBS shows via their SD analog channel because the reception is so inconsistent on their DTV signal.

Does anyone have any idea when channel 55 is going to begin a digital broadcast? My kids like to watch several of the WB shows, and I know that they're being produced in HD, but we sure don't get to see it here.

Originally posted by Fred DeGrandis
I was....I am still getting it on the other locals(just not WKYC):(

How do you get that? I had a Dish 6000 & now an 811 & have never received guide info on OTA locals.

-T

Originally posted by wfwiles
Are you listening to the audio on your TV or an amp. It probably has nothing to do with your situation but my daughter was having problems with audio going out on one station on her cable box. Called the cable rep in and he changed her TV from stereo to mono and no more problem. Check the settings on your TV, could be something incompatible like simulated surround....


When just watching TV I use the TV sound. On reular SD channels sound is ok. but go to digitial channel it will play ok some times then other times it is terrible. I have steady sound on TV it is a GW111 60". Have tried different sound settings on Tv and Cable box still get it. Cable man came out yesterday and he was stumped. Had another cable man call me and he telling me that its normal for audio to do that.

Now that channel 3-1 is back up, I get a guide!

Thanks guys,
Fred

Regarding the guide for OTA channels. As I understand the issue, you don't get the guide OTA. The OTA guide is provided by D* via cross reference with your zip code and input from stations.

Anyone else notice that channel 5 (WEWS) has been completly off the air for several hours at a time lately. I corresponded with them about their Mega Millions snafu on the HD side and they are looking into it. But lately they have been going off air totally.

Finally, HD cable now available on Adelphia in Painesville Twp. I picked up the box last Thursday. They have ABC NBC and I did receive HBO and Showtime for a few days. I asked the girl when more channels would be up and she did not have any other information.

Channel 752 (STARZHD) appeared on the Cleveland area HD listing today and it is working here in Shaker Heights. Hopefully this will start a domino effect and we can get some more channels soon!

I was amused this morning to tune to channel 3-3. Apparently the PC that they use to generate the weather radar map had failed, leaving a Windows bluescreen on the display. It was waiting for a keypress to continue. I tried clicking the enter button on my remote, but it didn't help <g>.

what a waste of bandwidth 3-2 and 3-3 are.

Channel 3-2 is great for those of us with 4:3 screens. What they need to do though is turn off 3-2 and 3-3 when 3-1 is showing something in HD and needs all the bandwidth. If they could do that it would be the best of both worlds and make everyone happy.
Steve

Originally posted by SteveC
Channel 3-2 is great for those of us with 4:3 screens.

I've also got a 4:3 screen, and I think 3-2 is a complete and total waste. The only explanation I've heard as to why 3-2 even exists is that it is necessary for the distribution of a digital signal through cable systems. For the life of me I can't figure out how this makes any sense. I'm sure the other locals have a digital distribution stream, but why does WKYC have to actually broadcast theirs?

Now I do like 3-3. I think it's less than a 1 Mb stream, so it doesn't really detract from the HD feed (when compared to how HDTV looks through D* which I'm sure compresses the signal to less than an 18 Mb effective stream). I'm one of the few people on the planet who does not have a broadband connection, and I actually check the radar channel several times a week (although, thankfully, a lot less the past couple of weeks). Being on D*, we also don't get a local forcast on The Weather Channel, so having instant access to the radar is definitely beneficial.

But if they would just get rid of 3-2, I think all would be good. Or at least as good as it could be having a low-power station on VHF channel 2.

ZMan,
I'm curious. Are you saying you prefer the distorted/stretched picture they show on 3-1 that does not fill the 4:3 screen to the non-distorted picture they show on 3-2 that does fill the 4:3 screen? I'm only only talking about non-HD programming. Also, what size is your 4:3 screen?
Thanks,
Steve

I don't see 3.1 distorted or stretched on my 4:3 set. I do get the black bars at top and bottom in 1080 mode but that is fine as the picture quality is good. I have a 53 inch Sony. If I switch it to 480I it cuts off the sides but fills the screen however the picture isn't as good.....

Originally posted by SteveC
ZMan,
I'm curious. Are you saying you prefer the distorted/stretched picture they show on 3-1 that does not fill the 4:3 screen to the non-distorted picture they show on 3-2 that does fill the 4:3 screen? I'm only only talking about non-HD programming. Also, what size is your 4:3 screen?
Thanks,
Steve

Maybe I'm just not as much of a purist, but I would rather watch the D* SD feed on non-HD material. I just don't see that much of a difference in PQ (except maybe for color definition) between the two to make the bandwidth-wasting 3-2 worthwhile in my book.

Or, if I didn't have D*, I could just watch the analog OTA station instead.

Or, if I really wanted to, I could achieve the same full-screen effect with 3-1 by squeezing the picture with my HD200 and then watching it through the S-Video connection to blow it up to full screen.

I'm watching on a 36" 4:3 Sony XBR, by the way. I guess it's not a true HD set, but it does a pretty good job with a 1080i source. Maybe some day I'll move up, but it works ok for now.

Originally posted by wfwiles
I don't see 3.1 distorted or stretched on my 4:3 set. I do get the black bars at top and bottom in 1080 mode but that is fine as the picture quality is good. I have a 53 inch Sony. If I switch it to 480I it cuts off the sides but fills the screen however the picture isn't as good.....

On non-HD material, 3-1 stretches a 4:3 source to fit the width of a 16:9 screen. It's not a bad stretch, and it's not as noticable as other stations that do the same thing (5-1, ESPNHD). On HD material, of course, 3-1 shows the programming in a correct 16:9 ratio that will look fine on our 4:3 sets with the letterboxing on the top and bottom. The best way to notice the stretch is to see how short and fat people look when watching a non-HD source.

The reason that it does not look like other stretches is that it cuts off a little of the bootom of the picture, so they dont have to stretch the sides as much. And if you have a set with low overscan, you will still see black bars on the sides, albeit very small.

Look heres my point:

if 3-2 and 3-3 never existed, would you guys be complaining that you wanted a weather radar map and a dedicated 4:3 picture as well as the stretched on 3-1? Or would you just be happy with your full bandwidth signal coming from channel 3?

For you spanish speaking HDTV owners I saw 61 is on the air again. Oh and they stretch their signal too :)

I tried to watch JAG last night on WOIO and the signal was dropping out like crazy again. Signal level was down also. Sure wish they would get their act together. Also the analog signal on COMCAST was lousy. I wound up watching it on OTA analog. One step forward 99 back.....

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
For you spanish speaking HDTV owners I saw 61 is on the air again. Oh and they stretch their signal too :)

What analog station number are they broadcasting their digital signal on? I did a complete rescan last night and couldn't find the 61 signal even though it was like 90+% for me back when they were doing the test.

I don't speak Spanish, nor do I care about watching most of the programming. But they do have some nice beach-side music videos occasionally..... :cool:

This morning, NPR (WCPN 90.3) had the president of NPR and the president of PBS on discussing the future of public broadcasting. The show started with the president of PBS congratulating herself on PBS's leading edge accomplishments in digital broadcasting. And how the Cleveland stations in particular are such a great example for other public broadcasters in the nation.

I had to laugh, and fired off an email to the host wondering why our dearly beloved WVIZ is not broadcasting HDTV yet.... No response was forthcoming...

-- Paul

Originally posted by paule123
This morning, NPR (WCPN 90.3) had the president of NPR and the president of PBS on discussing the future of public broadcasting. The show started with the president of PBS congratulating herself on PBS's leading edge accomplishments in digital broadcasting. And how the Cleveland stations in particular are such a great example for other public broadcasters in the nation.

I had to laugh, and fired off an email to the host wondering why our dearly beloved WVIZ is not broadcasting HDTV yet.... No response was forthcoming...

-- Paul

They have asked for a second extension. For the reason why go here and scroll down to the bottom EXHIBIT 1.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=100684835&formid=337&fac_num=18753

Originally posted by TV21CHIEF
They have asked for a second extension. For the reason why go here and scroll down to the bottom EXHIBIT 1.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=100684835&formid=337&fac_num=18753

WOW! Not that is VERY interesting -- Viacom/Infinity Broadcasting is the problem here, and I quote:

"VIACOM, INC., THE PARENT COMPANY OF THE PRESENT TOWER OWNER HAS EFFECTIVELY BLOCKED THE INSTALLATION PLANS OF WVIZ."

F'ing corporate *******s. Someone in the press should be screaming about this!

My apologies to WVIZ and PBS :eek:

-- Paul

I looked into the Ideastream v. Infinity Radio lawsuit that is discussed in the FCC filing above, and there was a lawsuit pending in federal court last March 5-13, 2003. Ideastream dismissed the case on the 13th, but the court's entry notes that it (Judge Polster) had scheduled a conference call for May 5, 2003 to discuss "an assessment of the technical and commercial issues involved in Plaintiff's proposed Scope of Work." Because the case was dismissed, there's no record of what happened since then. However, because the request for extension filed at the FCC was filed Sept. 9, 2003, it does not appear that Infinity was responding positively to WVIZ's proposed Scope of Work. So you have the company (Viacom) that owns Infinity, CBS, UPN and all the Nickelodeon channels (kids programming) preventing WVIZ (a lot of kids programming) from using its license to broadcast in HD? Interesting.
The only good news here is that WVIZ's problems with Viacom mean that my 5-year-old daughter is not begging to use "daddy's" TV to watch Clifford, Arthur, Dragon Tales, etc., in HD. One day she will be (and she can use her tooth fairy money to get her own HDTV!).

So the Plain Dealer article yesterday on HDTV options with various cable and satellite services says that Adelphia has Discovery HD Theater and ESPN HD. I have Adelphia HD, but I don't see these channels (I do have HD channels for NBC, ABC, HBO, SHO and STARZ listed). Do other Adelphia users here have these channels, and, if so, what are the channel numbers?

Originally posted by gnalmij
So the Plain Dealer article yesterday on HDTV options with various cable and satellite services says that Adelphia has Discovery HD Theater and ESPN HD. I have Adelphia HD, but I don't see these channels (I do have HD channels for NBC, ABC, HBO, SHO and STARZ listed). Do other Adelphia users here have these channels, and, if so, what are the channel numbers?

Ah yes, The Cleveland Plain Dealer, The Content-Free Newspaper!

I phoned Adelphia yesterday morning and they do NOT offer ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater. Perhaps the columnist mis-heard them talking about future fantasies?

The columnists for the Akron Beacon Journal all list their phone numbers and email addresses at the end of every article. Does the Plain Dealer follow this policy? If so, email the author and ask them to print a correction.
Steve

Yes, his email was there. I meant to write him, but didn't have the time yesterday.

Originally posted by SteveC
The columnists for the Akron Beacon Journal all list their phone numbers and email addresses at the end of every article. Does the Plain Dealer follow this policy? If so, email the author and ask them to print a correction.
Steve

With respect to the Plain Dealer, I have this business card in my pocket with a drawing of a pig in mud: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Certainly nothing PERSONAL intended. The Publisher is a high school classmate of mine and I introduced the former Medical Editor to her husband. Good folks there, I just don't mess with their business.

I found the article on the net. Here is the sentence in question:

Adelphia and Comcast do not charge extra for nonpremium cable channels such as ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater; Cox charges $5 extra for Discovery HD Theater but does not charge for other nonpremium channels.

He does not specifically state that Adelphia carries those channels but it is certainly easy to come to that conclusion. Overall I thought the article was well written and would be helpful to someone thinking about moving into the HD arena. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/living/1078310181200441.xml?lhtec

Steve

SteveC -

The Table on the next page clearly had ESPN HD and Discovery HD Theater checked in the Adelphia column.

So what on earth happened to WUAB last night? I looked for Enterprise, but found nothing but a blank screen - no signal whatsoever. An hour later it was back to normal, but since Enterprise is one of the very few HD shows that they broadcast, that was a disappointment.

You may not be aware that Enterprise was moved to 9 from its regular 8 time slot. Perhaps that was your problem.

I checked at 9:00 PM and then again ten or fifteen minutes later and there was no signal. I checked at 10:00 and it was back.

I had a signal at 8:00 but none at 9:00 also.

I have been unable to get any update on new offerings from Adelphia HD(espn, discovery, etc.). Anyone heard an update? Thanks.

Adelphia is too busy spending dollars on newspaper supplements to sign new contracts (they had a big one in today's Plain Dealer).

My wife and I just got Adelphia's new HD "package" that consists of a whopping 3 choices- NBC, ABC, & HBO (because we subscribe to HBO). I've been trying to find out when other stations might be available, but I keep getting the same runaround. We're out in Concord, so I don't know how location might affect channel line-up, but for now it's pretty lame. I'm looking more and more into Voom or an OTA HD setup in the meantime.

J.

I'd recomend over the air. Looking through the thread, you will see that we complaign a lot, but most of the time we are happy. You can get a decent STB for a couple hundred now. You should be able to pick up 3,5,8,17,19,43, and 61. With 25 and 55 coming around half past never. You may also get some stations out of Youngstown or Toledo. Get a STB, get a kicka$$ antenna, and you should be good to go.

Mike-

Thanks for the suggestions. Can you recommend any particular STB's or antenna? We're about 28 miles from Cleveland and I'd like to pick up VHF and UHF (WKYC in VHF, right?). Do you know of particular equipment that would fit the bill? Like I said, and I've read, Adelphia could take forever to get a decent HD line-up.

J.

www.antennaweb.org is a very helpful tool for determining the size of antenna you need. www.starkelectronic.com has a great selection of equipment at good prices once you decide what you want. As for the STB, the HDTV Hardware forum is the place to start. Lots of info on everything that is out there. Also, if you are confortable with PC's a HTPC is a great way to go. The HTPC forum has lots of info on putting one together. A MyHD tuner card is $289 at www.digitalconnection.com and it gives you the ability to digitally record the HD broadcasts. I have one and I love it.
Steve

Jason-

I'm also out in Concord and am waiting for my Samsung SIR-T351 OTA STB to arrive tomorrow. I put a RS directional boom VHF/UHF antenna up in the attic near the roof peak and ran 50' of cable down to the basement theater room. I got the Sammie 351 due to the low price and DVI output to feed to my LCD projector. Apparently Cleveland stations don't broadcast Dolby 5.1 yet, so that particular shortcoming of the 351 tuner isn't a factor.

We have decent elevation on the street, so am hoping for good HD reception. I'll report back after it's hooked up this weekend.

Gsthe1-

Excellent to hear that you will "guinea pig" for me. Whereabouts in Concord are you? We're right at Little Mountain and Morley. We, too, have pretty decent elevation. I'm very curious about your results. Keep us posted!

J.

Hey guys, my Wide Open West tech was out here today to check a signal level problem, and he mentioned that Comcast is buying out Adelphia in the Cleveland area ??!!

-- Paul

Haven't heard that one, although it might explain why they're moving so slowly in doing any HD upgrades.

I'm also not sure what the terms of the bankruptcy proceedings are. Adelphia might not be able to sell anything without court permission. I saw an article recently about their reorganization plan, but it supposedly didn't sit well with some stockholders, some of whom want to break up the company.

Originally posted by paule123
Hey guys, my Wide Open West tech was out here today to check a signal level problem, and he mentioned that Comcast is buying out Adelphia in the Cleveland area ??!!

-- Paul

Hmm...My wife is a portfolio manager and looked it up on their system that pulls all info about aquisitions & mergers (it's the same system that wall street uses) & there isn't one word about this at all. The only thing mentioned about Comcast is about Comcast & Disney and the only thing mentioned about Adelphia is that they came up with a plan this past week that outlines an organization of selling the entire company in one lump sum. It said that there is a group of partial owners that have objected to this plan & have submitted their own plan to sell Adelphia in chunks. Neither plan has been voted on yet so it's far from being settled either way. Maybe this cable guy confused this information.

It would seem strange that a cable guy has the info about the sale but Wall Street doesn't. ha!

Oh well, thought I'd pass along the buzz in the Market.


-Todd

It's also possible that rumors have become fact, at least with rival cable technicians!

ha! yeah they are probably hoping they take over for Adelphia...and...that wouldn't be a bad thing for us either probably! :) We'll see how it unfolds. I wouldn't be suprised if Comcast does buy the entire thing.

-Todd

I had some friends over the other day to watch a DVD when one of them asked why there was a News Channel 5 logo on the screen. HUH We watch the channel 5 news at noon and my wife has 5 on from five to six thirty. The logo which they place in the same place on the screen is burning in the screen on my projection TV. I have a Sony 53 inch about three years old. I sent an e-mail complaint to the station for what good that will do. I guess we will have to stop our viewing habits before the logo really stands out. Anyone else seeing this????

I wouldn't really care if Burger King bought Adelphia...as long as they got some decent HD programming.

J.

WFWiles is your tv set properly with the contrast around 40~50%?

This is what you get for letting your wife watch your tv. Just like you shouldn't use the Vacuum cleaner, you might break something. Better to leave the TV and Vacuum to their intended users.

I just posted the same news on the HD Programming forum, NCAA thread....

After putting a call into CBS WOIO-DT's engineering dept manager, I received a call back from their Programming Manager, Lisa. She informs me that WOIO-DT will be showing all the HD content for the NCAA regionals this weekend (Kansas City, Kemper Arena stuff), even though the SD channel may stay with more regionally interesting coverage. This is great news for us N. Ohio'ers, assuming the signal hangs in there. Since there are few, if any, locally-interesting teams anyway (go Dayton Flyers, my alma mater) this shouldn't upset any 10-1 watchers. Yeah WOIO...seems only about half the CBS affiliates are doing this.

Ted_B

P.S. She says this schedule is all on the actionnewsnow website, as well....she hopes to keep it up-to-date.

This is great news for the simple reason that they have finally changed their paradigm on this. In the past their programming director would be adamant that they had to show the same thing on both channels - no matter how many other stations I would list that were showing different things. They somehow finally figured it out. Hallelujah. Now, if they would just multicast the the SD games(only when no HD feed is available) it would be nirvana. I've talked to the chief engineer about this and he said they did not have the necessary equipment to multicast and had no plans to buy it. Too bad. I'm still hoping the CBS station in Youngstown will have this capability to make full use of the technology. It would give them an advantage over WOIO and increase the size of their audience(at least during the NCAA). Anyone know when they plan to come online?
Steve

That is super news. Hopefully they come through. I remember last year there was a nightmare trying to get 19 to show the games on the HD channel. Of course we were going to war at the time, but they said they would show basketball on the digital channel with news on the analog, but they fumbled.

Here's hopin they got the right people working the next couple days.

well i got to see about 5 minutes of the afternoon games today. looked better than i remembered last year. too bad i have to go to the cavs game tonight and cant watch the rest of the hd games today. :)

cuz i know the cavaliers are gonna lose. i have not seen in person a home team win a sporting event since labor day weekend when the tribe beat the blue jays.

Wow, I'm a believer in Cleveland-style HD OTA, now!

We just got the new Sammie T351 STB and hooked it up to the 150" VHF/UHF antenna residing in the attic. We're running DVI at 720p to the SE 2HD (Z2 clone) pj. Strong signals about 28 miles NE of the towers out here in Concord (off of Pinecrest near Morley) on NBC, ABC, CBS (incredible NCAA games out of KC last nite)FOX, UPN and Univision. The video suffered no dropouts and the Dolby 2.0 was fine, as well.

Keep up the good work, WOIO, on the live basketball in full HD! And way to go Jay Leno and NBC!

Jason, we must be just around the corner from you.

-Bob

Are these hoops games being broadcasted in HD? I checked TitanTv.com and it didn't say that the games were in HD. Because a game is being broadcasted on a digital channel, does that mean it's in HD?

Originally posted by hoops10
Are these hoops games being broadcasted in HD? I checked TitanTv.com and it didn't say that the games were in HD. Because a game is being broadcasted on a digital channel, does that mean it's in HD?

Somebody else can give you a better answer, but checking yesterday afternoon, I saw at least one HD game. I don't really watch basketball, so I couldn't even tell you who was playing. But it did look good.

Oh, and the little "HD" indicator on my HD200 didn't light, so the programming guide is not set to show that the programming was HD. Maybe that's why Titan was incorrect, too.

If there is an HD game being played, it will be on WOIO-DT channel 10, even if WOIO channel 19 is showing a more regional game. Check the programming forum for a schedule of the HD games.

But if you turn your TV on, it should be pretty clear whether it is in HD or not.

Just look in the HDTV Programming Forum. There is a thread for the NCAA games that lists which games are in HD. I think only a couple of the several sites that are hosting games this weekend are broadcasting in HD. I don't think any are in HD today. I believe the Kansas/Pacific game tomorrow will be in HD.

The other thing that confuses the issue I saw 4:3 SD broadcast pillarboxed inside the 16:9 HD graphic frame. So it was technically HD to the set top box but crappy 4:3 SD game video inside....

Might explain why TitanTV doesn't have an accurate listing, because CBS switches in and out of HD/non-HD games depending on the action.

So the lesson here is, dont listen to TitanTV, listen to Ken in the programming forum.

Hi all! I was in Vegas this weekend and did not get to see any of the HD games on WOIO. I was hoping that a few of you could state how the signal was this weekend. I know from the past that we can have a few signal drops from WOIO. They have been better over the past few months, but you never know.

Thanks!

Jim

I had no problems. It looked great. Can't wait to see the games this week

Is it my Dish 6000 receiver or is Digital Fox, 31 off the air? The last few times I tried to tune to it with my Dish 6000 receiver I sometimes see some signal strength but never a picture or sound.

Ray

Originally posted by Rbuchina
Is it my Dish 6000 receiver or is Digital Fox, 31 off the air? The last few times I tried to tune to it with my Dish 6000 receiver I sometimes see some signal strength but never a picture or sound.

Ray

Can't answer the question, but it wouldn't surprise me. I wasn't able to actually check, but it looked to me like I was getting Fox on Sunday night in 720p versus the old 480p. Being an O&O market, maybe we're getting some of the early rollout of the new HD equipment. Perhaps the station is off the air currently because of installs?

Hey, I can hope, can't I?

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Can't answer the question, but it wouldn't surprise me. I wasn't able to actually check, but it looked to me like I was getting Fox on Sunday night in 720p versus the old 480p. Being an O&O market, maybe we're getting some of the early rollout of the new HD equipment. Perhaps the station is off the air currently because of installs?

Hey, I can hope, can't I?

720p, really? What program did they have on?

If they are really doing 720p then they are up-converting the 480p feed they get from Fox. As reported in the Fox thread in the Programming forum the 720p feed from Fox won't go live until August. Still, 480p up-converted to 720p probably looks better than the native 480p. And it means they will certainly be able pass the 720p feed when they get it later this year. Good news.

Originally posted by Shark73
720p, really? What program did they have on?

I just caught a few minutes of The Simpsons pillarboxed. But that was the first clue, as they usually do a pretty good crop / stretch job on 4:3 material.

Plus, my HD200 box upconverts 720 material to 1080 since the set won't handle native 720. The set definitely "jumped" into squeeze mode when it stopped on The Simpsons. It never did that before on 480p material, and that's what made me think I was getting 720.

Again, I could be completely wrong. I wasn't able to verify the signal being received. I'm just reporting what I saw from my easy chair.

I'll check it out tonight. I'm using a MyHD card in my HTPC to receive the OTA HD channels. It has a display function that tells what the input signal is.

Yep, sure seems 720p to me. I've verified it with the HD200 tonight. Cool.

Rbuchina,
I tried briefly last night on my Dish 6000 and got the same thing. Nothing on Fox 31 except a signal strength indication. I wonder if it is a problem with the Dish 6000 software.
Jeff

I tried around 9:00 PM and was not able to pick up a signal. I have never had a problem before. I did not have any time to fool around with it though. Should have more time tonight.

Jeff,

Thanks for the reply, I live in Mentor so we both should have similar reception issues. I don't normally watch anything on FOX so I'm not real concerned about when this will get straightened up.

Ray

I haven't had any issues with Fox at all OTA. Looks the same as it always does.

My problem the other night was the antenna was pointed at Youngstown. Picked up 31 with no problem once I pointed the antenna correctly. I watched Tru Calling last night. Not only was it 480p but it was not widescreen like it usually is. It appeared they were just up-converting the analog feed. Anyone call and ask what was going on? I actually recorded it to my hard drive and watched it around 11:00 so calling wasn't an option.

Fox is showing NASCAR today, Busch series. It should be in widescreen but it is not. Has anyone witnessed any Fox widescreen since Tru Calling?

Still no widescreen on Fox.

Just checked and you are right. No WS on Fox today for the race.

I called, the guy in the control room made it sound like they are not receiving widescreen from Fox. No mention in the programming forum yet which leads me to believe this is a WJW problem.

fixed

it shows up as SD for me, so it doesnt look like a 720p convert like guys were mentioning on the preceeding page.

I now have a Fox Sports logo on the screen. Something is messed up at Fox.

My guess is the fox sports logo was for the insertion of local commercials, which channel 8 runs in their analog stretch zoom mode. So they didn't show any. I didnt notice a local commercial til a GWB ad during the post race.

I'm known for doubting myself, so I thought I'd ask. Is everybody else getting the signal in 720p just without the widescreen programming?

I haven't had a chance to watch anything except PBS Kids the past couple of days, so I haven't had a chance to check again for myself.

anyone in the Mansfield(Shelby) area who would like to help me install an ota to receive Cleveland locals in HD? Could use someone to catch me when I fall off the roof.

Thx, Tom

Just thought I'd let you guys know complaining to the FCC about WKYC's multicasting PQ issues is utterly useless. I sent my first email to them about 3 weeks ago, after a few days they emailed me a lovely PDF of how I go about complaining to my cable company, that they are not responsible for cable signal issues.

I reiterated that it is an OVER THE AIR problem confirmed by my OVER THE AIR receiver and that I merely confirmed the PQ problem in parallel with my cable box.

So about a week and a half later, I get another email with the same PDF about how to complain to the cable company or my local governmental authority, it's not the FCC's responsibility.

So I've now replied a third time with more emphasis on OVER THE AIR and we'll see what happens...

-- Sigh --

Paule you made a major mistake here. Your dealing with the government. Thats not gonna get you anywhere.

Tom in OH, just get some rope, you'll be fine.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Is everybody else getting the signal in 720p just without the widescreen programming?

Definitely back to 480p tonight. I swear I wasn't dreaming the whole 720p thing earlier. Right? RIGHT?? :)

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe


Tom in OH, just get some rope, you'll be fine.

I'm already gonna fall off the roof, now u want me to hang myself too?? geez, u guys are a lotta help....

So, which digital OTA channels should one expect to be able to get in Cleveland with an average antenna? Here is what I figured from this thread and from www.antennaweb.org so far:

3.1 (freq=2) WKYC-DT (NBC) Cleveland
3.2 - SD version of 3.1 WKYC-DT (NBC)
3.3 - Weather map
5.1 (freq=15) WEWS-DT (ABC) Cleveland
8.1 (freq=31) WJW-DT (FOX) Cleveland
17.1 (freq=39) WDLI-DT (TBN) Canton
19.1 (freq=10) WOIO-DT (CBS) Shaker Heights
43.1 (freq=28) WUAB-DT (UPN) Lorain
61.1 (freq=34) WQHS-DT (UNI) Cleveland

The following channels are not yet available, but are expected in the future:

25.1 (freq=26) WVIZ-DT (PBS) Cleveland
49.1 (freq=50) WEAO-DT (PBS) Akron
55.1 (freq=30) WBNX-DT (WB) Akron
67.1 (freq=47) WOAC-DT (SAH) Canton

I've also heard about the following stations, but I don't know if they are reachable from Cleveland:

21.1 WFMJ-DT (NBC) Youngstown
45.1 WNEO-DT (PBS) Alliance
45.2 WNEO-DT2 (PBS) Alliance
68.1 WMFD-DT Mansfield

I would appreciate any comments. Please let me know if I missed something.

Add channel 36(ABC) from Youngstown. I prefer it to 15 because they do not distort the picture on the analog signal up-conversion like 15 does.

Paule123,
I'm curious, what FCC regulation do you believe WKYC has violated? As I understand the current regulations, a station is not even required to broadcast HDTV. Digital transmission is the only requirement and they are doing that.
Steve

Originally posted by SteveC
Add channel 36(ABC) from Youngstown. I prefer it to 15 because they do not distort the picture on the analog signal up-conversion like 15 does. Would that be 33.1?
I see you are in Akron. Can we get it in Cleveland too?

Originally posted by SteveC
Paule123,
I'm curious, what FCC regulation do you believe WKYC has violated? As I understand the current regulations, a station is not even required to broadcast HDTV. Digital transmission is the only requirement and they are doing that.
Steve

I don't think they have violated any regulation. I just want to rattle some cages regarding the multicasting issue which many people have voiced displeasure with. The FCC says I can complain about "signal quality" and for the price of an email, why not say something? The FCC, the broadcast industry and the consumer electronics industry are so very proud of this wonderful technology, so IMHO, let's make sure it's the best it can be.

From a marketing point, if I'm NBC I'd like to know that there are viewers out there saying "man those football games on ABC and CBS look awesome, I wonder why sporting events on NBC don't look as good?"

Like they say for every 1 person that complains, there's probably 100 more that never say anything, and I figure it's better to make our voices heard early on in the HDTV process than let the stations get themselves locked in to some channel arrangement that is even harder to change later on down the road.

/rant mode off

-- Paul

Ilya,
If you would be more specific about your location perhaps some of the other thread subscribers that see they are near you will answer that question. At the very least you would probably need a good quality antenna with a rotor on your roof. Depending on the length of coax between your antenna and receiver you may need an amp too. What equipment do you have now?
Steve

Paul,
Probably the best thing you can do is send a note to the programming director at WKYC and state that because of their lower picture quality you are instead watching the digital channel of the NBC affiliate in Youngstown(as I am).
Steve

What is the purpose of the Univision digital station. Do they have any plans for HD? I'd love to see those 'Univision Women' in HD!!! :)

-Todd

If anyone in NE Ohio is interested in watching WOIO's DT channel on Time Warner Cable, I've figured out how to "hack" the Pioneer HDTV box to let you do so. It seems that it is in "hidden" mode, and after some time, I've discovered the secret to unlock it!

Tune to channel 611. You can't access it from the guide, you have to be on an actual channel. Then, under the "tuning" header on the left, type "0541" in the channel number space (top). This should bring-up the sound, but no video. Then, hit the yellow "triangle" button 3 times...this should bring-up the channel!

I found WNEO-HD the same way about a week before they added it a few months back. I don't know if TWC finally struck a deal with Raycom (I can't find a hidden WUAB-HD anywhere!) but if not, at least us TWC subscribers can watch the Final Four and the Masters in HD!!!

Anyway, if you all know this already...sorry. I just figured this out and wanted to share with all!

Enjoy CBS-HD NE Ohio!

Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K
If anyone in NE Ohio is interested in watching WOIO's DT channel on Time Warner Cable, I've figured out how to "hack" the Pioneer HDTV box to let you do so. It seems that it is in "hidden" mode, and after some time, I've discovered the secret to unlock it!

Tune to channel 611. You can't access it from the guide, you have to be on an actual channel. Then, under the "tuning" header on the left, type "0541" in the channel number space (top). This should bring-up the sound, but no video. Then, hit the yellow "triangle" button 3 times...this should bring-up the channel!

Enjoy CBS-HD NE Ohio!

thx for posting, but what do u mean by "type" 0541 and do u mean the yellow triangle on the twc remote?

thx, Tom

Using the remote. At the yop-right it says "Display Channel". Move the cursor over to it and in the 4 places (it should say "0000") type (w/ the remote) "0541". Don't forget to hit the blue "select" button after you type in "0541".

And yes, I mean the yellow triangle on the TWC remote. I should have been more clear. I hope that helps.

(Do you guys get the Cleveland HD stations in Shelby?)

my neighbor has the Pioneer HD box you're refering to. I helped him set it up to his new Mitsubishi HD. I think he only gets abc & nbc in HD. I'll have to ask for sure. I'll look very smart though if I go over and dial in more HD with your trick - thx.

by the way, I bought my Tosh HDTV from HHGreg in Canton. Nice place.

Again...I hope you GET the Cleveland channels in Shelby. (WKYC, WEWS, and WJW for networks). Check first, cause if you don't...it obviously won't work.

Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K
Again...I hope you GET the Cleveland channels in Shelby. (WKYC, WEWS, and WJW for networks). Check first, cause if you don't...it obviously won't work.

abc & nbc in HD are from cleveland.

Sweet!

I bought my Tosh 34HFX83 at HHGreg in Canton. That must be the same store where u work unless there's another.

What has HHGreg heard concerning the HD-Tivo HD-DVR250 ? Will u guys carry it?

Same one...small world, no?

As far as the HD TiVo goes...we are a Dish Network distributor. We don't carry DirectTV, or TiVo, so I seriously doubt we'll be getting that in the near future. We have the 931 Dish HD-PVR (well...kinda...there isn't any stock on it), but no TiVo.

wews hd just showed up on my comcast hd box. Finally they are giving me some extra channels. They havent turned it on yet but they probably will tomorrow cause thats when they are taking hbo cinemax and showtime off the analog side. I did get nba tv also. Cbs would be nice. Maybe soon.

Originally posted by SteveC
Ilya,
If you would be more specific about your location perhaps some of the other thread subscribers that see they are near you will answer that question. At the very least you would probably need a good quality antenna with a rotor on your roof. Depending on the length of coax between your antenna and receiver you may need an amp too. What equipment do you have now?
Steve
SteveC,
I am in Solon and have an amplified Stealth antenna that came with VOOM. But my question is not specific to my particular location. In Cleveland VOOM (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=10866) thread at SatelliteGuys.us we are trying to figure out which channels should be added to the "Cleveland" OTA channel map. You see, VOOM currently doesn't have OTA scanning/manual tuning capability, so every VOOMer in Cleveland area has to rely on a predefined OTA channel map, which currently includes 5 local channels: 3, 5, 8, 19 and 43 (also 68 - but this one is too far). Currently, we are thinking about requesting two additional channels to be added to the map: 17 and 61. (May be also 3.2 and 3.3, so we could watch unstretched SD programs on NBC, and the weather map).

If anyone is aware of any other digital stations that can be easily reached from Cleveland/Cuyahoga County, and should be added to the VOOM's OTA map, please let me know.

Thanks.

Just to bring you Comcast HDTV folks up to date,if you havent already heard.

ABCHD is now on the air on Comcast CH210.
This brings us up to 10 HD channels with more to come.

Today started the rollout of the Motorola DCT-6208, which is the single tuner HDPVR box.

Also, the buildout of on-demand was started last week and should be ready by the end of May.

Ben Music (Beta Testor)

Ben,

Is the 6208 rollout beta test only, or for all customers?

Thanks.

SS,
6208 rollout is for all Cleveland Comcast area.

Ben Music

Thanks. Cleveland is the fourth Comcast area to roll out the 6208's, along with Washington D.C., Dallas and Richmond, VA.

Smak Runner 2K, I tried this trick to tune in WOIO from my parent's house (they live in Youngstown and already get some local HD stations thru Time Warner), but the trick didn't work. When I type in 0541 and hit 'Select', I don't get any sound. Does this work with only some Pioneer boxes? Any other settings I have to enter?

I don't think you get HD locals from Cleveland in Youngstown, do you? More specifically, I believe TWC Youngstown has a different CBS affilliate than WOIO. That would be the reason. You have to be in a WOIO coverage area to get the WOIO-HD. Aren't you guys like WKBN (27) or somthing out there for CBS?

Tell you what, when I get home from work tonight (around 7pm) I'll post pictures of the process for anyone confused.

Smak, you are right about us having a different CBS affiliate. It is WKBN but they have not got digital yet. My parents do get the analog WOIO that is why I thought that this trick would work. Does getting the analog WOIO mean anything?

hoops,
Maybe they assigned it a different channel number on the Youngstown TWC system. I would try all the unassigned channel numbers that are just above and below the local digital channel numbers you are currently able to receive. Can't hurt to try. You might get lucky. Did they turn it on temporarily for the Super Bowl like they did on the Akron TWC system?
Steve

Does anyone here in Cleveland have a Dish Network 811 and also watch CSI on WOIO 10.1? I need some help with a problem. For some reason on that show, I get what seems to be one channel audio through all 5 speakers (same through each). It also happens on CBS sports. All other programs are fine usually including CSI-Miami. I have called Dish 3 times over the last 3 months & they can't/won't help me. They are saying it's WOIO's problem but that can't be the case as everyone would have this issue. Dish DID have a bug with left channel audio on all 5 speakers back in January they said, but it's since been fixed. I'm running the newest software revision & I've reset the reciever as well.

The next step is for them to exchange the 811 for a new one but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had this issue too or if an 811 actually worked for surround sound on CSI for anyone here.

-Todd

Errrm, OK...

I can still do the trick, but the picture / sound are now gone, leaving just a blank screen when you access 541 the back way. There's still a channel there, otherwise it would say "Not Authorized" or "Out of Range" like normal...it's just black....hmmm...

Oh well, I'll post pics as soon as it comes back and they're worth posting. If I can't get a CBS-HD picture by the Final Four tomorrow...I'M GONNA BE PISSED!!!!

if TWC has a deal with the CBS station why do u think they haven't already turned it on? It seems strange that it's necessary to do this trick if the station is there. It's a pretty good trick no matter what. I'm still a little freaked how u ever found it... amazing. I haven't had a chance to try it at my neighbor's, he's on vacation.

When I called Adelphia to order the baseball package, I asked about the status of new HD stations. First off, Adelphia requires now you to call a toll-free number, rather than the local number. The person I talked to claimed we should now be getting Fox (708), CBS (719), and WUAB (743) in Shaker Heights. The last time I looked (earlier today), I don't see those stations in the channel guide. I haven't tried to tune them directly (I'm at work right now), but I'm assuming they aren't giving out correct information. Anybody know anything?

He also had no current information about ESPN or Discovery (maybe July!)

Bad information I'd say. Maybe he was trying to say those are the other local digital channels available, not necessarily available on Adelphia yet though.

-Todd

Except that he gave me exact channel numbers, all in the 700s where the rest of the HD stations are... I even said, "in Shaker Heights?" and he said "yes". I told him I didn't have those stations and he said, "You should." I almost quipped back on that one...

If we based our information on what people at Adelphia told us, then we'd also believe that digital cable was as good as HD, which is exactly what they said when asked if they had HD last year. ha! :)

Also the cable guy from Adelphia told someone here (was it you?) that comcast had already purchased Adelphia in Cleveland which isn't true either.

Seriously though, it's possible this person knows the channel mappings of the future channels & maybe they will be here in the next week or two, but as of now, they aren't there.

-Todd

Oh, I totally agree with you... It's just the latest in the long line of Adelphia issues.

The other day when I asked them about the HD-DVR, the woman was very rude & acted as if I was nuts. Typical Adelphia. Sad thing is, my experience with Dish Network hasn't really been that much better! They too are clueless and make one mistake after the next. If only Voom had ESPN-HD & HDNET (and the other missing non-HD channels). I'd be all over that.

-Todd

Hey, if I lived in a house rather than an apartment, I'd be with Wide Open West by now. I already cancelled my cable modem from Adelphia, but otherwise I'm stuck.

Is there a way to reach WKYC engineering on a weekend. Every once in a while they send the incorrect PSIP data with their virtual channel set to 2-1 instead of 3-1. I wonder how hard it would be to correct this on a weekend? Could they do it as easily as they "flip the switch" for HD?

Anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks,

Ron

I wouldnt say that PSIP info is a big deal compared to all the other crap we Clevelanders put up with. HEHE :) But I guess just call the newsroom, and ask to speak to a human being in the control room or engineering. Thats what I did with Fox last weekend.

Well guys, Wide Open West just added a new HD tier here in the Cleveland area. It's $9.99/mo. and I signed up for it last night. It consists of ESPNHD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, and DiscoveryHD. Unfortunately it looks like WOW is not allocating enough bandwidth to the new HD channels.

I watched two shows last night and much to my disappointment, I noticed extreme pixelation with movement.

On DiscoveryHD, I watched "Hong Kong Lantern Festival" - the scenes where the "dragons" are dancing (the dragon heads have a lot of detail and move quickly), they looked fuzzed out.

On HDNet, the Counting Crowes concert (very low lighting, smoky), was almost unwatchable. Every shot of the drummer (moving drumsticks) looked like a really bad cellphone camera shot. Every scene change had a lot of pixelation.

I have the SA3250 HD box. I've had the HD locals here for about 6 months and they don't exhibit the pixelation problem. (except for WKYC with the multicasting, and that is nowhere near as bad as what I'm seeing on HDNet and DiscoveryHD)

Anyone else with WOW notice this?

-- Paul

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
I wouldnt say that PSIP info is a big deal compared to all the other crap we Clevelanders put up with. HEHE :) But I guess just call the newsroom, and ask to speak to a human being in the control room or engineering. Thats what I did with Fox last weekend.

Its a big deal to me because my HDTV receiver will not tune the channel in if its PSIP data is incorrect.

I did call the chief engineer at WKYC and they said that their software license had expired for the system that sends PSIP data, and they are working to renew the license. He hopes it will be fixed today.

I was flipping around the OTA digital channels this weekend and I stopped to watch a little of the golf on channel WKYC for a few minutes. When they came back from a station break they displayed one of those rotating station logos. I just saw it for a split second before it disappeared but I'm pretty sure it said "First in HDTV". I burst out laughing and wondered how they could ever rationalize themselves as being "First". Then I got to thinking that if they were the first to come on the air that would certainly qualify them to make the claim "First in HDTV". Does anyone know for sure which of the Cleveland digital channels came on the air first? When I got my first tuner back in early 2000, I'm pretty sure 2, 10, and 15 were all on the air. I can't remember about 31. If someone knows who was first, please post the answer.
Steve

Ron,
My DTC100 has an option called "Use online guides". As long as I don't turn this option on, the tuner ignores all PSIP information and does not try to remap any channels. Perhaps your tuner has a similar feature you could use until the PSIP data is corrected. That would allow you to tune the channels using the native channel numbers. I can't believe any manufacturer would build a tuner without this feature. No way could you assume that every broadcaster is going to have PSIP.
Steve

Originally posted by SteveC
Ron,
My DTC100 has an option called "Use online guides". As long as I don't turn this option on, the tuner ignores all PSIP information and does not try to remap any channels. Perhaps your tuner has a similar feature you could use until the PSIP data is corrected. That would allow you to tune the channels using the native channel numbers. I can't believe any manufacturer would build a tuner without this feature. No way could you assume that every broadcaster is going to have PSIP.
Steve

What's interesting in now that WKYC is broadcasting this data, my Samsung SIR-T165's "guide" feature has become "alive". Unfortunately the receiver is kind of stupid in this regard and tries to fetch PSIP data from every other local channel in the same time slot you are looking at. This basically freezes the receiver while it looks for data and takes an agonizingly long time. It makes the guide for all practical purposes unusable until every local station broadcasts this data.

-- Paul

Paul,
The problems you list are why I keep the feature turned off. I have not seen any advantage to using it.
Steve

I can't find the news link right now, but Adelphia signed today with Disney. ESPN HD is on the way!! :D It normally takes about 30 days to get the equipment in place. Also I don't know yet if they're going to place it on a pay tier or digital basic (free).

Here's the link:

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20040405005844&newsLang=en

HOWEVER, Adelphia signed an agreement with HD Net in January and we still haven't seen anything from that one...

Sorry, I forgot to mention that (HD net) is done. I don't have specific dates, but they tell me sometime between now and April 30. They're still working on the tier. Unlike D*TV and the other guy, we would like it to be free.

Originally posted by handsworth
Sorry, I forgot to mention that (HD net) is done. I don't have specific dates, but they tell me sometime between now and April 30. They're still working on the tier. Unlike D*TV and the other guy, we would like it to be free.

Any word on CBS, Fox or the HD PVR?

Thanks,

Jim

Talk about service, I emailed the Cleveland area manger for Wide Open West on Monday explaining my bandwidth problem with the new HD tier. By 3pm that day, the headend engineer emailed me and said he just bumped up the bandwidth for those channels, and sure enough it made a world of difference. DiscoveryHD and HDNet are both simply stunning now.

They were even going to roll a truck to my house the next day whenever *I* wanted them to be there to make sure things were fine at my house. I got a call from the head dispatcher saying he had received a hand written note from the manager and asked if I still needed the technician to show up. Don't ya love being a guinea pig, er, beta tester for all this HD stuff, LOL...

-- Paul

Paul,

Do you know if WOW is considering adding INHD to the HD lineup?

Thanks,

Jim

Has anyone tried the hack to get CBS on the Scientific atlantic boxes yet????? do you use channel 611 no matter what? When the super bowl was on i think it was channel 541. I want to watch the masters in hd soo bad!!!!!!!

Who is your cable company? TWC?

I have Adelphia and we did not get the Super Bowl, as far as I know.

Originally posted by Shark73
Paul,

Do you know if WOW is considering adding INHD to the HD lineup?

Thanks,

Jim


The reply was "We are looking at other HD opportunities. No formal deals have been made yet. "

-- Paul

Yes i have TWC. They actually cut a deal with cbs just for the superbowl. it was turned on a few hours before the game and then turn off shortly after. thats why i asked if the hack would work on the SA box. the signal is there somewhere??????????????????????

Yeah, here's the thing about the hack...

The hack still works, technically, but I think someone over at TWC NEO got wind of this post, and shut the signal off. When you do the trick, it still brings-up a "channel" - as opposed to a "Not Authorized" or "Out of Range" comment like it will normally display on a channel not in the "official" line-up - but the "channel" is now a black screen. There's still something going on there, because the box will still "shift" you into 1080i mode and come-up with audio and video source "drivers" on 541...but you can't see or hear anything.

I keep checking it to see if anything comes back, and I'll definately let the forum know if anything changes.

As far as the SA boxes go...I assume the hack would work OK, because I imagine the channel numbers are the same. Channel 611 should be the diagnostic channel for both boxes, although I have no way to confirm or disprove that theory. If it's not 611 though, it's there somewhere. A quick way to find it is to go into the main settings mode (on the left of the remote), hit the triangle button to access "more settings" and go to the "favorite channels" option. Then, if you access that setting, a list of all channels available should pop-up. You should see a "DIAG" channel in the list somewhere...or something to that effect. That's your diagnostic channel. From there, you should be able to access 541...although right now there isn't much to access.

Anyway...hope that helps. War TWC adding ESPN-FRICKING-HD ASAP.

Bump...we were getting buried there!

Subchannels 3-2 and 3-3 are now listed in the VOOM local channel guide. They can't be keyed in directly from the remote keypad because the remote has no hypen or period, but can be selected from the one-line or full guide.

Mostly for a bump. Page 10??

Anybody else with D* notice that 3-2 and 3-3 are now correctly shown in the APG with programming info? Sure is nice to see "Doppler Radar" instead of "Regular Programming" all the time.

Didn't notice that, but I have those channels removed from my guide. Will look at them tonight.

Anyone know when Adelphia will turn on the new HD channels? Based on reports out of Pittsburgh, Adelphia has turned on ESPN, INHD & INHD 2 already.

any word on Adelphia releasing the HD recorder? I would like to eliminate one of the boxes and have the option for HD recording. Thanks for any info.

bump

Originally posted by ZManCartFan

Anybody else with D* notice that 3-2 and 3-3 are now correctly shown in the APG with programming info? Sure is nice to see "Doppler Radar" instead of "Regular Programming" all the time.

I see the NBC digital channels showing up in the guide. It looks like 3-1 and 3-2 are exactly the same? What's up with that?

Originally posted by Tom in OH
I see the NBC digital channels showing up in the guide. It looks like 3-1 and 3-2 are exactly the same? What's up with that?

3-1 is the HD channel, 3-2 is a SD digital channel. WKYC stretches all SD material as well.

oh ok, thx. The HD symbol didn't light up on 3-1 because the signal isn't strong enough (yet). It will when the antenna gets up a little higher....

Originally posted by Tom in OH
oh ok, thx. The HD symbol didn't light up on 3-1 because the signal isn't strong enough (yet). It will when the antenna gets up a little higher....

Not sure what system or box you're using, but it's possible that the HD symbol didn't light up for you because 3-1 wasn't broadcasting any HD material at the time. My Sony HD-200 only shows the icon when the actual material is flagged as being HD in the guide. Frequently, however, the HD flag isn't set correctly by whomever inputs the guide data, and the HD icon won't light even though the material is in fact in HD. This happens on all HD channels, not just 3-1.

If you're able to get a picture on 3-1 at all, raising the antenna won't effect the HD symbol. Plus, if you're using a D* system, the guide data doesn't come from your antenna, it comes from the D* satellite stream.

I'm using the Zenith HD-SAT520 (same as Shark73 until he got his HDTivo... grrrr - mine's not here yet.) I see what u mean about the HD symbol not showing up for non-HD shows. This came up originally because I couldn't tell any diff between ch. 3-1 and 3-2. But I think you're right, the HD symbol on 3-1 didn't show up at the time I looked because it wasn't an HD show.

Was watching WKYC 3-1 on Sunday night. Law and order. Numerous dropouts and I missed key parts of the conversation. Anyone else have this? A storm was approaching, but I was told weather should not affect digital coverage. Direct tv never went off during that time.
Thanks

Originally posted by rlockshin
Was watching WKYC 3-1 on Sunday night. Law and order. Numerous dropouts and I missed key parts of the conversation. Anyone else have this? A storm was approaching, but I was told weather should not affect digital coverage. Direct tv never went off during that time.
Thanks

I've also noticed that 3-1 is particularly prone to dropouts during bad weather. I've always just assumed one of two things was going on. My first theory is that it's prone to atmospheric disruptions due to the fact that 3-1 actually broadcasts on NTSC Channel 2 -- the lowest VHF frequency you can get.

My other theory is that usually during bad weather the 3-3 radar channel has a lot of unusual activity. If you've ever tuned in during a bad weather episode, it's kind of fun since what we're seeing is actually the display of one of their main weather computers. You can watch the meteorologist move the mouse around and create various weather maps. There's not enough bandwidth on 3-3 to keep up, but it's fun to watch never the less. I'm wondering if just enough badwidth is being eaten up by the extraneous activity to cause drops on 3-1.

Of course if they would just drop 3-2, there should be plenty of bandwidth for both other channels. :mad:

Its the weather. It drops out for me on lightning strikes. Not usually just from rain though.

I get multipath issues when there is a lot of wind and the trees are blowin on Fox 8. Thats not their fault, its mine cuz of the location, but it still sucks.

Mike

I asked adelphia some more questions on status of HD update and received the following:

HD DVR on the way but no date given.
Still in negotiations with other HD channels (discovery, espn, CBS, etc.) with no date given.

Not looking good, especially with position taken by stockholders to sell assets.

Anyone hear anything different?

Adelphia is my cable company and I use Direct TV. I have Adelphia basic and the picture and sound , dolby digital on some movie stations blowas Adelphia away. Drop them and go satellite, you will not be sorry

I also talked to adelphia and got similar info.
- No word on additional channels
- No word on PVR

If they were moving any slower they'd be going backwards.

Again, mostly for a bump.

But has anyone used Armstrong Cable in Medina for HD? Apparently they have an HD PVR available. They also have a dish buyback program which will credit your account for 6 months of the cable bill if you turn in your equipment (they can have my SD boxes, but I'd hide my HD receiver!)

I'm a D* subscriber, but I may think about moving if I hear from anyone that Armstrong is OK.

Here is the official response I got back from Adelphia:

"The HD DVR should be available in the next few months. We already have some models in our possession that are being tested. Starz HD was added in March. HD Movies and HD Net will be added May 12th. If you would like more information about these new channels go to www.hd.net. Negotiations are continuing for more HD channels."

Prompt response actually--here's hoping CBS is next.

I have been receiving FOX (031) for the last few weeks after not being able to tune it in with my Dish 6000 for several months. I've had the 6000 for around 20 months now and initially received FOX without any problems. I talked to John (Engineer at FOX) a few weeks ago and he claimed they had not changed their transmission. I also spoke to a Dish rep who said that nothing had changed on the Dish 6000 receiver. So its a mystery to me why I finally receive FOX now.

Now my biggest problem is with WKYC (003-01). The signal is weak and yields a continues stream of drop-outs.

Ray

I can't pull in NBC out here in Twinsburg very well at all. Same issues you have. Some days it's ok, but most days I can't pull it in at all.

On another note, can anyone with a Dish 811 confirm that their 5.1 surround sound on CBS shows such as CSI Miami works properly? Early in the 811 production, they had an issue with some OTA channels producing only left channel sound through all 5 speakers, but software updates have fixed the issues according to Dish. Unfortuately, it hasn't fixed my 811. The strange thing is that sometimes it's fine & sometimes it's not. Last week CSI Miami was ok, last night it wasn't.

-Todd

Has WEAO (PBS) Akron started broacasting in digital? According to Antennaweb.org it's already on (?!!)

Any updates on WVIZ (PBS) Cleveland?

I've been receiving HD OTA for a couple of years now and I've been waiting for the HD PVR's to come out. I hear that the D* unit (HR10-250) is available and I was wondering if any of you local guys had one. I'm looking for any feedback on the unit and advice on how to go about ordering it and the service. Thanks in advance.

-Jim

I've had my HR10-250 on order from Value Electronics since early February, and it's rumored to be shipping sometime next week. I think a few folks have one locally, such as "Tom in OH"?
The AVS forum on "HDTV Tivo Powered PVRs" is the central repository for all threads on the HR10-250. There are threads for availability of this box from various distributors and from Circuit City and Best Buy. A few folks even wrote code to refresh the Circuit City website every 15 seconds so that they know when CC has more boxes in stock. CC appears to be getting small shipments of 20-50 boxes, at which time they change their website to show availability. They are snapped up very quickly.
Best of luck.

Hi Jim,

I have the HR10-250 on preorder at SolidSignal and should be receiving it within the next week or so. Some people have had great luck ordering from CircuitCity.com. You might wanna try there or call your local CC and see if they have any in stock. If you're not a D* customer yet, they might throw in the dish and installation.

Hi gnalmij, (or is it Jim Lang),

great minds think alike... ^_^

Jim,

I have had the HD-TiVo since the first shipment from Value Electronics. Sometime around April 20th. So far everything has been fine with the unit, but I have had a few recordings from HDNet that had sound for a while then went dead. OTA reception seems to be close to my old Zenith 520, however, I can't get NBC to lock in. I'm about 8 miles from the towers, but use an indoor antenna for local OTA HD. I'm sure if you had a better antenna that NBC wouldn't be a problem.

As far as advice on ordering, you may want to check out the HD TiVo thread. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36

Many stores are getting them in but many have pre-order lists already which need to be filled prior to new orders. CC is the only store not taking pre-orders, so you should try them or their website.

If you are new to D* consider going with Value Electronics and getting an SD TiVo package, then order the HD TiVo on its own. Whatever you do make sure you tell them to upgrade you to the phase III dish so you can get the HD channels because you will be ordering the HD TiVo.

If you need more info let me know.

Jim

Looks like Adelphia finally added HDNet and HDNet Movies. Still waiting for more locals and INHD.

Yep they popped up last night (that's when I noticed them). Also, didn't they sign a contract with ESPN-HD as well a few months ago?

-Todd

Another bump...

I saw a response from Adelphia that basically said the local CBS is not owned by Viacom, making negotiations tougher. Of course, this didn't seem to stop WOW from getting them signed up right away!

News releases show Adelphia signing national agreements with ESPN-HD and inHD, so we can only hope that these will get on-air quicker than HDNet; that agreement was signed back in January!!!

I compared HDnet on Adelphia & Dish Network. The Adelphia PQ is very close, but was not as good as Dish. I could see more grain, slightly less sharp picture & the colors, like in my Network vs. OTA comparison, seemed a bit over saturated. Once I adjusted the color down for Adelphia, it was better, yet Dish was slightly sharper with virtually no grain.

I guess for convenience & price, Adelphia is just fine, but in a perfect world, if you are going for the best PQ you can get, Dish still wins (and prob. DirectTV too). If they ever add CBS it's definately a hassle free alternative, with PQ that's very close, but the perfectionist in me would still want the better PQ via Sat. service even if it's just a touch better.

-T

Dweezilz: I am not happy with the quality of the Adelphia HD PQ at all. Compared to OTA through my Zenith SATD520, it lacks considerably. Watched the Preakness on Saturday and in flipping back and forth, I saw a significant improvement with OTA. My only reason for even considering Adelphia was the potential for an HD PVR at way below the $1000 D* investment. I have 3 of the sd D* TiVo's and love them, but it's time to move to HD. I dont know why I am holding out for Adelphia to get something right. I think I am going to just bite the bullet on the HD TiVo and be done with it. Adelphia could be the worst cable company in the country.

While I do probably agree Adelphia is the worst & while I think while there are many that are considerably better, most of the cable companies have serious issues with performance and customer service & most seem to have people complaining. I hear people complaining about Comcast quite a bit as well. No channels, poor PQ, bad customer service, shoddy equipment, etc...

I can tell you from personal experience that my dealings with Dish Network & Direct TV have not been much better either on the customer service side of things. I think I've been more pissed off at Dish Network than I have with Adelphia if you can believe that!!! You want to see a company that is totally clueless, I'd surely recommend looking at Dish Network! ha!! My Aunt & Uncle in Albuquerque had DirectTV come out to hook up a new HD box for them. Do you think the installer hooked it up to their HD input with componant cables? Of course not. Coax only!! They aren't technically inclined so they had to hire someone who charged $200 to set them up. Nice job Direct TV!

All are terrible it seems which is a sad commentary on the industry in general.

That said, I don't find the Adelphia picture as terrible as you do really, but certainly not as good as OTA or Dish or DirectTV. I can tell the difference side by side, but again, if I couldn't compare side to side, it would be acceptable & would be for most people. It's easy & basically free (for now) so it's difficult to complain. For me it's not acceptable PQ because I know what the best looks like & I always need to have the best PQ I can afford to get, but for most I'd think it would be just fine. It's not like it's clearly bad so to speak so I don't want to give people the wrong impression. It's actually good, but not as good as Sat. or OTA. I wonder if Comcast, TM or WOW looks any better than Adelphia? (not that they are available in Twinsburg)

-T

Adelphia users - you guys should complain loudly and see if you can get to any sort of district/area manager and possibly engineering - Adelphia may not be allocating enough bandwidth to those channels.

When I complained about PQ to Wide Open West shortly after they launched their new HD channels their engineering guys allocated more bandwidth and all is well now. The funny part is that I seemed to be the only "perfectionist" that noted the problem, nobody else in the Cleveland area apparently complained, probably shrugged their shoulders and thought the HD they were watching was "good enough".


-- Paul

Well, I am one of those perfectionists & I guess I could complain if I thought it would do any good. It doesn't really bother me that much though. Again, the PQ is not even close to what I'd consider 'bad' & I have a very good eye for this stuff. 'Good Enough' makes it sound like it's crap, but to the novice or inexperienced, it's good enough. Not the case really here. It's just ever so slightly worse than OTA/Dish, but still good. I guess a complaint might do something, but I seriously doubt it. After all, it's Adelphia we are talking about here! :)

I would guess that comparing any cable HD vs. OTA would produce slightly worse results for the cable PQ. Just a guess.

-Todd

I've sent the following Email to TWC NEO. Hopefully we can get some much-awaited answers!!! (Not.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm curious about a couple of things...

1. When is TWCNEO going to add TNT-HD? Other TWC divisions are (or have already) added this channel, and now with Dish Network announcing the addition of TNT-HD to their line-up...to go along with another killer-ap ESPN HD...when is this division of TWC going to do the same? I have to say - Dish is looking like a very attractive way to spend my $130 a month for TV service with this addition if it's going to be a long-time before we get TNT in this market. Do you have a date for this addition?

2. WOIO-HD is the only local network affiliate lacking a carriage agreement with this division of TWC. When...finally...will this be resolved? I know that's some of the blame (maybe even most of it) falls on Raycom, but enough is enough. CBS is one of the leaders in HDTV and it's very frustrating to watch all my friends with Dish and Direct TV tout the great HD programming they are enjoying with their HD antennas supplied by the sat. companies, while I...trying to spread the word about the good merits of cable HD to them...am unable to enjoy such a thrill, and am forced to listen to "We are negotiating" time after time after time...

I guess it boils down to this. I am a loyal TWC subscriber. I am, overall, happy with my service. But to be honest, HDTV is really the only thing that matters to me at this point as far as television goes. I have no interest in standard def. services or channels...but I am willing to spend a lot of money to get HDTV, as my monthly cable bills should reflect. I don't really WANT a satellite, but I have to say, Dish Network's package is pretty attractive right now with the addition of TNT-HD and already having ESPN HD and the ability go get WOIO-HD through antenna.

I know ESPN HD is a corporate thing, and I'm not to terribly concerned with that until football season. But I am concerned about TNT-HD and CBS-HD. If these are coming very soon...I'll stay with TWC. If it is unknown when these are coming, then I'm afraid I may have to take my $130 and my future HD PVR subscription elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be one of those "Gimme this or else!" customers...I'm just laying the facts on the table and hoping you can help me make a decision.

(For what it's worth..I'll still keep Road Runner.)

Thank you for reading, and I await your answers.

Daniel Zaleski
Phone - EDIT


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wish me luck!!!

The response...


-------------------------------------------

Mr. Zaleski:

Thank you for your recent email. We appreciate your loyalty as a customer.

I can tell you that we will be adding TNT HD by the end of this week. I believe the channel location will be 947, but I'm not 100% certain. If something changes, I'll let you know.

As far as CBS and ESPN is concerned, I'll check on getting an update from our marketing department.

Believe me I know where you are coming from, I'm an HDTV owner myself and football is my favorite sport.

Time Warner Cable
dra

ps - I did hear that ABC will be doing the NBA finals in HD and TNT will be doing the conference finals in HD


-----------------------------------------------------


Better than usual. Hope what "dra" says is true, and we WILL have TNT-HD by Friday!

Is anybody else in Cleveland with DirecTV been having problems lately with FSN / Indians games? For the past couple weeks I've been having trouble getting really pixelated picture or nothing at all. I tweaked the dish today to get a little better signal strength, but it's not helping. All the other channels are fine, it seems to be the Fox Sports block that's giving me trouble. I can't figure out which transponder they are on, when I click over to the installation/tuning menu, the transponder number is always different.

-- Paul

TNT HD is now on TWC on channel 547. The Lakers vs. Timberwolfs game just finished. Looked beautiful.

Originally posted by paule123
Is anybody else in Cleveland with DirecTV been having problems lately with FSN / Indians games? For the past couple weeks I've been having trouble getting really pixelated picture or nothing at all. I tweaked the dish today to get a little better signal strength, but it's not helping. All the other channels are fine, it seems to be the Fox Sports block that's giving me trouble. I can't figure out which transponder they are on, when I click over to the installation/tuning menu, the transponder number is always different.

-- Paul

I haven't watched FSN since the Bluejackets' season ended, but I'll check it out. FSN on D* has always been pretty bad, though. The amount of compression is ridiculous.

But now that I know there's somebody else here with D*, let me ask you a question. Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.

I haven't seen the faint greenish line on D* channel 8. Doesn't sound good though. Do u have an ota antenna? Just wondering if u see the greenish line on Fox 8(analog) or 8-1(digital).

Yes, I have an ota antenna, and no, I don't see it on the analog channel or 8-1. It's only the D* feed of channel 8. The line takes up maybe 10-15% of the screen, so it's not that small. But, then again, it's not that big either.

Overall, the colors on the D* feed are pretty off. The blonde news lady's hair is often greenish.

And this is the only channel I have an issue with. I suspect it's in the feed sent to D* from Channel 8, so I'm not that concerned. I was just wondering if anyone else has noticed it.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
But now that I know there's somebody else here with D*, let me ask you a question. Do you see a faint greenish line that comes and goes running vertically through the center of the screen on Channel 8's D* feed? I've noticed it for the past year or so, but I've never been able to confirm if it was just me or if other's got it as well.

Sorry, have not noticed a greenish line....

-- Paul

Originally posted by paule123
Sorry, have not noticed a greenish line....

-- Paul

Hmm. I wonder what it could be? I wouldn't think the HD box would be getting interference from the OTA analog feed. It's smart enough to remap all of the D* feeds which are coming through on different signals anyway. It's not that big of a deal, but it's definitely noticeable. Maybe I'll start sweating if/when it happens on another channel.

Thanks for the feedback.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
Hmm. I wonder what it could be? I wouldn't think the HD box would be getting interference from the OTA analog feed. It's smart enough to remap all of the D* feeds which are coming through on different signals anyway. It's not that big of a deal, but it's definitely noticeable. Maybe I'll start sweating if/when it happens on another channel.

Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe I misunderstood - my D* setup is standard, not HD, using the basic "silver" Hughes STB. So I am saying I have no problem with the analog Fox 8 feed. I don't know about the digital Fox 8 feed via D* (is there one?)...

Just to clarify, I've got a basic D* analog setup at the office (where there is no cable), Wide Open West HD cable service at home, and OTA at home via Sammy T165.

-- Paul

The digital Fox 8 feed (channel 8-1) comes from an ota antenna and is 480P(soon to be 720P this Fall). The greenish line ZManCartFan has is coming from Cleveland's DirecTv feed of Fox 8 (digital 480i).

Originally posted by Tom in OH
The greenish line ZManCartFan has is coming from Cleveland's DirecTv feed of Fox 8 (digital 480i).

This is correct. I have no such greenish line on the ota digital (8-1) or analog (8) channels. It's only the DirecTV channel 8 that shows the line.

My reception of wkyc (digital) has been poor lately and I also cannot receive FOX (Digital) again.

Hi Group,
Here is some news you might want to check out. Digital FOX CH8 went out late last night on Comcast and was still dark this AM. I sent a e-mail to the headtech to let him know. When he checked in to it he sent a reply saying that they switched over last night from the 480P ED service, to the new 720P HD service.

I just thought I would give you all a heads up in case this was true.

Ben Music

Originally posted by Ben Music
Hi Group,
Here is some news you might want to check out. Digital FOX CH8 went out late last night on Comcast and was still dark this AM. I sent a e-mail to the headtech to let him know. When he checked in to it he sent a reply saying that they switched over last night from the 480P ED service, to the new 720P HD service.

I just thought I would give you all a heads up in case this was true.

Ben Music

wow, that's interesting. I've been hearing Fox would switch to 720p this Fall. I wonder if this applies to the Fox digital via ota as well?

I'll confirm Fox 31 as broadcasting at an HD resolution over the air. I only turned it on for a second to check if the info said HD or SD, but the picture looked slightly different. Still using the crappy zoom/stretch mode on non network programming.

This is good news, in case any summer sporting events like the Pepsi 400 or MLB All Star game are in 720p instead of just widescreen.

I ordered the HR10-250 from Value Electronics last week and signed up for DirecTV. The DirecTV install went fairly well and I've been enjoying programing that I didn't have with standard cable, such as TechTV and Discovery Wings.

I hooked up my old standalone TiVo to the SAT receiver using the external IR control, which works fine, but I'm really getting anxious to get my hands on the HR10-250. Value Electronics can't give me a reliable ETA for the unit. So, I spent some time browsing EBay and did find a few units on sale there. But I'm really nervous about using EBay for a purchase of this amount.

I've heard that some people are having success at CircuitCity and Best Buy. Is this true? I checked CircuitCity.com and it doesn't even list the unit. I also called a local store in Mentor, but they have yet to have any. Do any of you local guys know of a reliable place where I can get one of these units now? If not, I guess I'll just have to wait for VE.

the new image on Fox 8 looks like a DVD with bad edge enhancement. hopefully they work on it a bit.

I have a Hughes HD Directv box and I am having trouble getting a strong signal all of a sudden. I didn't have the box on for a few days and now I cannot get a digital picture from 3 or 19. They both have been fine since I hooked it up in January. Any one have any clues? I have the cable from the antenna running straight to the HD box at the moment which is an improvement over the way the installer had it running but I still am unable to pull in 3 and 19. Any help would be appreciated.

Every once in a while these same two stations (3 and 19) have trouble getting through. I suspect it has a lot to do with weather conditions because sometimes they come in perfectly although never the same signal strength as the other three (8, 5, 43). Channels 3 and 19 also output the lowest power compared to the others.

According to one source channel 3 is 8 Kw and 19 is only 3.5 Kw. Channels 8, 5, & 43 are 625Kw, 870Kw, and 200Kw.

It's also possible the station turns off the signal for some reason. One time I lost 43 completely and an hour later is was back full power.

JJL - is it possible your antenna moved with some of those strong winds a couple weeks ago?

well 3 and 19 are on VHF. and in a perfect world, we wouldnt have HD on a VHF network.

That's true, 3 and 19 are VHF (digital positions 2 and 10). It's supposedly easier for VHF signals to be sent the same distance with less power which is probably why these two are lower power than their UHF counterparts. But still, these are the two channels that a lot of people have trouble receiving at various times. A little more output power might solve the problem for many viewers.

Well after some more testing I have decided it must be the Hughes box. The antenna is in the attic, and I split the signal one going to the HD box and the other going directly to the tv, the signal to the tv is perfect but the normal tv signal going to the tv throught the HD box is very fuzzy. So I am going to contact Hughes tomorrow and hopefully things will get taken care of quickly. Has anyone had trouble with their Hughes HD box? Should I contact Directv about this since I bought it through them 5 months ago?

Thanks.

I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
I really appreciate your advices.
1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
Thank you in advance.

Chanho

Originally posted by JJL
Should I contact Directv about this since I bought it through them 5 months ago?

Thanks.

Hi JJL,
I'm not sure what DirecTv will do since it's been 5 months, but it sure would be worth a call. They've been pretty good about helping people lately hoping to keep them happy customers due to the competition. Thank goodness for competition. ^_^

Originally posted by oldavnut
I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
I really appreciate your advices.
1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
Thank you in advance.

Chanho

You should consider Wide Open West cable if they are available in your area. www.wowway.com They are offering a lot more HD at the moment than Adelphia. They use the Scientific-Atlanta 3250HD box with component outs, s-video and composite. DVI and Firewire outs are not enabled yet. Coax, optical, and RCA audio out.

Component out is awesome for HD viewing although the people who have DVI capability say it is even better.

-- Paul (a very satisfied WOW customer ;) )

Originally posted by oldavnut
I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
I really appreciate your advices.
1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?

1) A satellite provider may offer you more HD channels, but probably won't get you better reception. Personally, I've stuck with Adelphia so far, though the other services are tempting. Adelphia is adding more HD content, but they are moving VERY slowly.
2) Adelphia uses the SA 3250HD with composite, S-Video, component, and DVI. The SA firmware seems to still have some problems in the DVI area, but component seems to give equally good results so I'm willing to wait while SA gets the problems solved.
3) Component will always be better than the other analog methods. DVI and other digital connections may be better yet, though I don't see any real difference in my configuration.
4) I think the satellite receivers tend to sell in the $400 to $500 range, but it really depends on what unit and service you buy. If you're serious about them, call the vendor and ask. I get emails from VOOM about every two weeks hawking their stuff, and I'm sure Dish and Direct are just as aggressive.

So does anyone have any new news on our local stations?

1) Fox8 seems to have started transmitting some HD, at least occasionally. So at least we know that the local affiliate has the hardware in place. Now they just need some content. (....boy do they need some content... regardless of whether or not it's HD....)

2) WUAB seems to be able to broadcast HD when it comes that way over the satellite, but they apparently have no ability to store the HD content for later. I base this on the fact that Enterprise is regularly in HD on Wednesday, but never on Saturday.

3) WB55 is listed at AntennaWeb.org as going live on July 4th. I'll believe it when I see it. It would be good to see it happen, though - Gilmore Girls and Everwood in HD would go a long way toward convincing my kids that the HD set was a good investment.

4) WVIZ has dropped off the AntennaWeb.org listing entirely. It looks like they're in for a long battle of some sort to get their signal on the air. I don't know if they're still fighting with Viacom, or whether they've begun to look for a new tower for their transmitter.

Anyone know anything more on any of these fronts?

Adelphia has finally added HDNet, and I've been enjoying it more than I thought I would. The Alison Krauss concert yesterday was great, so was the Sheryl Crow that came after it. Soccer seems to be a lot more interesting to watch than hockey or basketball. And those Swimsuit model shows have been very enjoyable <g>.

Also, a couple of the Thursday night dramas on HDNet were pretty good, especially Odyssey 5. Was that on some other network at one time? I've never heard of it before.

On the other hand, HDNet Movies might as well be called "The Home of the Two-Star Movies". I haven't seen anything there worth watching.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
On the other hand, HDNet Movies might as well be called "The Home of the Two-Star Movies". I haven't seen anything there worth watching.

I'd have to agree there's not much there on HDNet Movies, but I did get a kick out of seeing Chuck Norris in "Code of Silence" redone in HD. I've seen that movie more times than I care to admit, but in HD the Chicago scenery really looks great.

Discovery HD is very addictive. Every time I flip past that channel I end up getting stuck there for a while. Tonight they had a Travel Channel show on "World's Best Beach Resorts". The images were stunning. Hmmm.. Mexico? French Riviera? Seychelles? If the cable box took reservations, my hotel and flight would be booked tonight....


-- Paul

Thanks guys for the advices.

I'll wait and watch for a while this rapidly evolving field. Probably, I'll make up my mind before football season start. WOW seems to have better packages but I do not want to go through hassles of changing now.
Thank you again.

Chanho

Originally posted by Tom in OH
That's true, 3 and 19 are VHF (digital positions 2 and 10). It's supposedly easier for VHF signals to be sent the same distance with less power which is probably why these two are lower power than their UHF counterparts. But still, these are the two channels that a lot of people have trouble receiving at various times. A little more output power might solve the problem for many viewers.

One of the reasons 19 is lower power is because it's using channel 10 digital, which has multipath issues with Detroit's channel 10. From what I've read, this is the reason they can't increase their power. They have tried to get the FCC to allocate a different slot to no avail. As for UHF vs. VHF, the vast majority of digital stations across the country are UHF not VHF. I don't know the technical reasonings, but it's always been my experience that UHF is far easier to pull in. This adds to the issues with having 2 & 10 as digial channels. I can't say you are wrong about the distance vs. power factor, but it seems to go against my experiences & also against where most digital channels are slotted.

-Todd

Originally posted by oldavnut
I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
I really appreciate your advices.
1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
2. What output connections are offered by Adelphia HD box?
3. Do connection methods have effects on picture quality?
4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
Thank you in advance.

Chanho

Sorry to come in late on this, but here's a few other things. I have both Dish Network & Adelphia HDTV.

Adelphia has HBO, Showtime, Starz, HDnet, HDnet Movies, ABC & NBC digital (HD) stations.

Dish Network has HBO, Showtime, TNT, Discovery, ESPN, HDnet, HDnet Movies and for some with no local OTA, CBS.

People are griping about Adelphia's offerings, yet look at it compared to Dish Network. It's not that different, plus they have one the other Sats. do not have. DirectTV is about the same.

Now comparing costs, the HDTV package on Dish Network is $9.99 per month or about $8 a month if pre-paid. They allow you to purchase JUST that package plus a $5 fee. DirectTV won't allow that as you have to have one of their main packages I believe. There are varying deals for the receiver, but I think all involve commitments for total package programming. Otherwise, the price is $399 for the 811 receiver.

Adelphia's HD box is about $3 or $4 per month more than their digital box, but with nothing to pay for. Their programming thus far, is free.

As far as picture quality, it's a mixed bag. On Dish, all the channels look spectacular. The locals need to be pulled in via antenna OTA which can be an issue. I don't have a large roof antenna so getting NBC can be an issue.
The majority of the time, the signal is weak & it's about 70% of the time that I can't get it in.

Adelphia's PQ on the non-local channels is very good, although depending on the day, I can sometimes see slightly less clairity when compared to Dish Network. When I compare HDnet on both, Dish seems just slightly sharper at times but often times it difficult to see any difference. It depends on what's being broadcast. The Adelphia version is very much acceptable however & depending on the program that on, it's hard to tell the difference much of the time. The local OTA channels seem sharper to me than Adelphia's version. It's not by much, but OTA via the Dish box seems to produce a slightly sharper image. This makes some sense of course considering that I'm pulling the signal in directly, where Adelphia needs to bring the signal in then pipe it through their cable. There is some loss I think with any cable based locals. Hard to prove either way really aside from what I can see with my own eyes.

So that's the basic rundown. At this point, I'm paying $8 per month on Dish to get Discovery, TNT-HD, & ESPN-hd. I also get the other OTA's that Adelphia doesn't have via the Dish receiver. The rest is on Adelphia.

Again, I think that while adelphia has moved slow, in many ways they are being unfairly bashed as far as HD goes. I'd rate both Adelphia's & Dish's customer service as a toss-up...both are terrible. And...before anyone comments, I'm certainly no fan of Adelphia in general as a company, it's just that as far as their HD goes, at this point, they aren't doing as poorly as it seems. I know people see Adelphia as the 'evil cable company', but I've been shafted more times by Dish Network than Adelphia over the years to tell ya the truth. If WOW was an option in Twinsburg, I'd consider looking into that as well. Voom has too many missing SD-Channels at this point for me to consider it viable. Plus they are missing several key HD channels even with their huge HD offerings.

Hope that helps.

-Todd

As for bashing Adelphia, all I'm asking for is information. The company doesn't seem to want to let anyone know what is going on. It took four months for HD Net to appear, even though the contract was announced in January. When are we getting ESPN and inHD, since those contracts have been signed too? What about locals? Why can Wide Open West offer CBS and Fox, but Adelphia can't? Fox is about to roll out HD, so we obviously want it too.

Sorry if this sounds like bashing, but I don't think customer communications is a minor part of doing business.

Well, come on now... We KNOW what to expect & the constant griping about it was all I'm talking about. Try calling DirectTV & get info on what programming is coming. You won't get a straight answer. Try calling Dish...same deal. How about all the people with Time Warner trying to figure out what the situation with CBS was days before the Super Bowl? The point is, none of these companies is much different as far as customer service goes. They are ALL LACKING although some worse than others.

Also, please please please don't insinuate that I said something I did not. I NEVER said customer communications was a minor part of doing business. Nothing will irritate me more than people putting words into my mouth or wording their posts to sound like I implied something I did not. All I'm saying is that most of them are bad on that level & in no way was I defending Adelphia. Why can't TWC get CBS? Why can't Adelphia? They say strong contract negociations. Who knows, but all I can say is, take what we have, and wait an see. I could see being pissed off if they charged $10 per month for the channels, but they don't. It's free & we are contantly complaining about their content. Take it for what it is & chalk the rest up to typical giant corporation & typical crappy customer service. How did I just know that someone would have to respond in this way? HA! I was trying to give comparisons...end of story & don't infer anything else from my post.

Enough about it.

The last time I looked, I AM paying extra for HD, even if it's for the box. I never said you insinuated anything. I was stating what was important TO ME, since I've regularly complained here.

Just because this is the way companies do business doesn't mean I should accept it without complaint. In addition, cable companies have added responsibility since they are a public utility, although that's pretty much of a joke if you've ever tried to deal with a city cable board.

Anyway, the person asked for opinions about Adelphia, so I decided to include my opinion, so that's where I'll end it.

Dweezilz,
I was probably hard on Adelphia mainly because ESPNHD and CBSHD are missing, and for football fans, that meant no Sunday Night Football or CBS HD coverage on Sunday. and no Super Bowl...

I don't think WOW explains it real well on their website, but for the monthly cost of $6.99 for the SA 3250HD box, you get HD ABC,CBS,NBC, Fox and StarzHD. If you pay for the premium channels, MaxHD and HBOHD are available. For some reason they do not have ShoHD even though they carry the other Showtimes.

For an additional $9.99/mo for the "HD Pak" you get HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD. No TNTHD yet.

Digital Basic service is $50.99/mo in addition to the above. They include the Starz SuperPak "free" with all digital cable packages.

Customer service I would rate very good. The couple times I had HD channel issues, I was connected with an "HD specialist", I talked to the same girl twice on succeeding Saturdays.

If an HD DVR is important to you, a WOW CSR told me they had no immediate plans for that. I beleive Adelphia has one or soon to roll one out.

I priced it out for a friend that subscribes to all the Adelphia premium channels and I think WOW came in about the same, WOW being a couple bucks more a month as I recall.


-- Paul

Originally posted by jtscherne
The last time I looked, I AM paying extra for HD, even if it's for the box. I never said you insinuated anything. I was stating what was important TO ME, since I've regularly complained here.

Just because this is the way companies do business doesn't mean I should accept it without complaint. In addition, cable companies have added responsibility since they are a public utility, although that's pretty much of a joke if you've ever tried to deal with a city cable board.

Anyway, the person asked for opinions about Adelphia, so I decided to include my opinion, so that's where I'll end it.

WOW, this converation has taken a turn for the worse & from my original intent because of your interpretations here. I never said one thing about their good customer service. Your post implies you were upset by my posts support of Adelphia, which somehow infrindged on your right to complain. You said "all I wanted was an answer...etc...etc..." as if I said you were wrong about complaining. Re-read what I wrote. In fact, I mention their bad customer service, yet you still go on as if I was lauding them as being good on that end. I was talking about their CONTENT which isn't that bad...that's all I said. And at the cost of what they are charging, it's hard to be so upset. You are arguing something that's not there. You're arguing customer service & communications, which was never even part of the point I was making! Seriously...take them time, re-read what I said, then you'll see that I said they were terrible as far as customer service. What more did I have to say to avoid your rath? Your posts are out of the blue & extreme. Certainly anyone has their right to give their opinion which is why I gave mine. It's not what you made it to be. And, I'm telling you the truth that I've had more issues with Dish's customer service. It's a fact, however it doesn't mean that Adelphia's customer service was good...it's horrible like I said originally.

As far as costs, So you are paying an extra $4 for the box...with no hardware to buy & no other cost for the service. Voom rents the box for $10 per month or you fork out $600. Dish charges $400 for the box plus $10 per moth for the HD in addition to another $5 service fee. The price comparison I made is valid thus, the content by comparison is free. My advice to you would be to drop Adelphia if you hate it so much. Forget paying $4 for the box & getting free HDTV since it's only a few free channels. It's obvious that's what you should do and nobody is stopping you. If you've done that already, that great, more power to you & I hope you enjoy whatever service you choose. Everyone appreciates your comments about Adelphia's communication issues, but it doesn't mean I can't say they did well on other fronts in comparison to Dish.

-Todd

Originally posted by paule123
Dweezilz,
I was probably hard on Adelphia mainly because ESPNHD and CBSHD are missing, and for football fans, that meant no Sunday Night Football or CBS HD coverage on Sunday. and no Super Bowl...

I don't think WOW explains it real well on their website, but for the monthly cost of $6.99 for the SA 3250HD box, you get HD ABC,CBS,NBC, Fox and StarzHD. If you pay for the premium channels, MaxHD and HBOHD are available. For some reason they do not have ShoHD even though they carry the other Showtimes.

For an additional $9.99/mo for the "HD Pak" you get HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD. No TNTHD yet.

Digital Basic service is $50.99/mo in addition to the above. They include the Starz SuperPak "free" with all digital cable packages.

Customer service I would rate very good. The couple times I had HD channel issues, I was connected with an "HD specialist", I talked to the same girl twice on succeeding Saturdays.

If an HD DVR is important to you, a WOW CSR told me they had no immediate plans for that. I beleive Adelphia has one or soon to roll one out.

I priced it out for a friend that subscribes to all the Adelphia premium channels and I think WOW came in about the same, WOW being a couple bucks more a month as I recall.


-- Paul

No problem at all. I understand & I'm appreciative of your calm & nice post here. Adelphia certainly isn't the leader of the pack by any stretch of the imagination, but for $4 & little effort, it's fine for what it is. An example is my buddy who purchaesd his first HDTV a few months ago. He really isn't interested at this point in paying to switch from Adelphia, so since he already has it, for the money, it ok for him. For those seriously into HD right now & want the most content, it's not a full solution at this point. That's why I have Dish Network as well. I'm sure at this point, WOW is certainly better than Adelphia. It's not an option for me so that takes care of that. It's why I specifically mention WOW at the end of my post & why I don't contend that I know much about it. I posted what I do know which was a comparison between Dish Network & Adelphia. That's all...nothing more, nothing less. People seem to get carried away with this at times. I know everyone's anxious for the best content at the best price, but we act as if it's life or death sometimes & it's really not. I don't get worked up about Adelphia because sadly, I've learned that my expectations should be very very low, so all they can do is suprise me with better. Sad to say, that's the way most large corporations seem to operate these days. All that we can do is read each post, take in what they are actually saying, anlalyze things for what they are, & then do what we feel is best. It's not personal at all so bickering is just silly (I know you weren't).

I agree with you about ESPN-HD & CBS. I'm a huge football fan & it would be easier just to use 1 service. I wish Adelphia would get it, but I'm not going go into depression if they don't. I think people have several other options if that's the make or break & all's good for everyone if they are willing to pay. Not that it's that great, but I do get Starz HD on Adelphia which I can't on Dish. So they got that goin' for them. HA!! ;)

Anyway, you & I can keep our fingers crossed on Adelphia & until then, I'll have to deal with Dish Network & two services for a while longer. By the way, the basketball games looked KILLER on TNT-HD! Might have to keep Dish after all!! :)

-Todd

Originally posted by oldavnut
I'm Adelphia customer and getting a new HDTV. I have a few questions.
I really appreciate your advices.
1. Do I need to change to Satellite provider to get better reception?
4. What is the fee of sat. HD receiver?
oldavnut,

I am a former Adelphia customer. I've been waiting for them to roll-out HD for a long time. When they finally did at the end of last year - it was a joke! 4 channels, including 2 local and 2 premium channels.

I dropped Adelphia, went with VOOM and never looked back! Today VOOM offers 36 HD channels via satellite + all OTA HD channels you can get in your area.

If you lease, you pay $9.50 a month for equipment, which consists of the HD STB (with HD OTA tuner!), the remote, the dish, the OTA antenna and all the cables, even DVI! HD-DVR is not yet available, but is already announced and is expected later this year.

The programming costs $39.90 a month. This basic package includes 25 HD channels like TNT-HD, Discovery HD Theater, Bravo HD+, ESPN-HD, and 21 more HD channels exclusive to VOOM. I don't list SD channels, as I rarely watch them now (honest!)

If you want premium channels you can get: HBO-HD East, HBO-HD West, Cinemax HD East, Cinemax HD West, SHOWTIME HD East, SHOWTIME HD West, TMC HD, STARZ! HD East, STARZ! HD West and Encore HD. The all-inclusive VaVaVoom package is $79.90 a month, or you can choose a 9-channel premium pack for $14.90 a month, each including 2 or 3 premium HD channels.

For additional $14.90 a month you can also add Playboy Hot HD, if your wife will let you :)

There are no upfront costs and no long-term contracts! Really no risk to try it!

I'm thinking of going the VOOM route but only have an RGB input on my front projector. Does anyone know if V supplies the converter ?

Originally posted by PPS
I'm thinking of going the VOOM route but only have an RGB input on my front projector. Does anyone know if V supplies the converter ? Good question. Probably not. Is it expensive?

Did anyone else have drops during the 2nd half of the NBA game last night?

Originally posted by Shark73
Did anyone else have drops during the 2nd half of the NBA game last night?

Yes, both OTA and Cable.

-- Paul

Yep, it kept freezing etc...

PPS,
Here is a very reasonably priced Component to VGA Transcoder:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/products/video/9a65.asp
Up until very recently these devices were several hundred dollars.
Steve

No drops or freezing tonight for the hockey game. I wonder what happen last night during the basketball game.

Originally posted by Shark73
No drops or freezing tonight for the hockey game. I wonder what happen last night during the basketball game.

Yea it was strange, ABC is usually great on the reliability of HD in Cleveland.

It's quiet here... too quiet!

I was watching ABC Monday night and felt that that the quality was a little lower than usual. For example, there seemed to be pixelation during George Lopez, although the basketball game seemed fine last night.

Originally posted by jtscherne
It's quiet here... too quiet!

I was watching ABC Monday night and felt that that the quality was a little lower than usual. For example, there seemed to be pixelation during George Lopez, although the basketball game seemed fine last night.

Basketball game was fine for me too, but after seeing the NBA Playoffs and the Stanley Cup games, I am coming to the conclusion that 720p just isn't as crisp as 1080i (i.e. HDNet productions). It probably has more to do with the "soft" center court/longer range camera that they use.


-- Paul

Originally posted by paule123
Basketball game was fine for me too, but after seeing the NBA Playoffs and the Stanley Cup games, I am coming to the conclusion that 720p just isn't as crisp as 1080i (i.e. HDNet productions). It probably has more to do with the "soft" center court/longer range camera that they use.


-- Paul

Interesting. I have a 1080i monitor, but no cable or dish. My experience is limited to the local networks. I find for sports that I much prefer 720p over 1080i. Pixelation bugs the hell out of me for some reason. I can hardly pick up WKYC as of late, but really don't care because the multicasting ruins the HD experience for me. I noticed a lot during CBS football that their graphics caused a ton of pixelation. While definately not as crisp as 1080i, I liked the 720p broadcasts of the Stanley Cup and NBA Finals.

The biggest thing that bothered me was that damn scoreboard ABC uses. For Basketball and Hockey it covered up way too much of the screen, but thats for another topic.

The article below was in today's Plain Dealer and gives WEAO's current HD plans:

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1087810415202872.xml