You do realize there is a regular digital 480i feed on TW for WKYC, correct? There is an analog feed(803), a digital feed in 480i (3) and the HD feed (703). I watched the channel 3 news this morning on 703 and I can confirm that was in HD. So maybe you need to search around a bit with your QAM tuner.

+1 on what Hookbill said. Methinks you're on the wrong freuency or your tuner has latched onto the wrong PID.

You do realize there is a regular digital 480i feed on TW for WKYC, correct? There is an analog feed(803), a digital feed in 480i (3) and the HD feed (703). I watched the channel 3 news this morning on 703 and I can confirm that was in HD. So maybe you need to search around a bit with your QAM tuner.

Well I'm using qam, so my channels are analog (3) and hd (3-1). I use the "favorites" of MYHD (my tuner) which only has digital channels. Did TW do this only to qam channels maybe? I'll rescan with my tuner, but like I said, I use favorites that only has 3-1, 19-1, 5-1, and 8-1. and like I said, 19-1 is the only one actually in HD. All of these channels are labeled by the tuner as HD, ie, WKYC-HD... :confused:

Well I'm using qam, so my channels are analog (3) and hd (3-1). I use the "favorites" of MYHD (my tuner) which only has digital channels. Did TW do this only to qam channels maybe? I'll rescan with my tuner, but like I said, I use favorites that only has 3-1, 19-1, 5-1, and 8-1. and like I said, 19-1 is the only one actually in HD. All of these channels are labeled by the tuner as HD, ie, WKYC-HD... :confused:

Since I personally have little knowledge of QAM tuners I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. I tried to apply some logic to what I do know in hopes of being somewhat helpful. Sorry if I confused you more, but I think your on the right track by doing a rescan.

Since I personally have little knowledge of QAM tuners I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. I tried to apply some logic to what I do know in hopes of being somewhat helpful. Sorry if I confused you more, but I think your on the right track by doing a rescan.

No its cool, thanks for trying. Sadly a rescan is not helping. The -1 channels are still labeled as HD even though they are 480i (except CBS). Maybe someone else using QAM can chime in. On the bright side, I did find TNT-HD on 88-2, which was not there last scan.

Just on the big ten network from what I can find...

just found your post. You were right, it finally showed up on the D* guide for the BTN channel right before the game(it said 'to be announced' most of the day). The Kent State - OSU game looked a little fuzzy but glad to receive it - couldnt' find it anywhere else.

Oh the memories... We used to watch Hoolihan&BC too and switched over to channel 61 now and then hoping to catch 'The Ghoul' blowing up car models with firecrackers...

I must have logged more time with Mr. Sweed than I'd remembered. I stumbled onto some YouTube videos featuring "The Ghoul" and instantly remembered nearly all of his regular bits/music/etc...

No its cool, thanks for trying. Sadly a rescan is not helping. The -1 channels are still labeled as HD even though they are 480i (except CBS). Maybe someone else using QAM can chime in. On the bright side, I did find TNT-HD on 88-2, which was not there last scan.

I'm on QAM in Canton and all my HDs are fine. Same as it's been for months. Maybe they're messing around with your system right now since supposedly TW is adding new channels to their line-up this week. WB in HD anyone?

AFAIK, CBS doesn't lose the NFL anytime soon. However rumor is all their games will be HD next season. I believe the NFL mandate is every game in HD in the 2009 season, not the 2008 season.

The 2008 season sounds right. Since the HD conversion is set for Feb. 2009, I'd think that they would want to get all the bugs worked out before the HD broadcast becomes the standard. The worst thing would be if in the 2009 season, they have HD problems and we're left with a window boxed game. I get the feeling "19 Action News" will NOT be HD by 2009.

The 2008 season sounds right. Since the HD conversion is set for Feb. 2009, I'd think that they would want to get all the bugs worked out before the HD broadcast becomes the standard. The worst thing would be if in the 2009 season, they have HD problems and we're left with a window boxed game. I get the feeling "19 Action News" will NOT be HD by 2009.

There's no mandate/requirement for HD by 2009, only digital broadcast.

Speaking of "Action News 19", I stopped at a Getgo in Twinsburgh to get gas and I'll be darned if directly in front of me is one of their remote trucks. there are two guys in the truck and I mentioned to one of them "When are you guys going to get Dolby 5.1?" He said, "I don't know." I said, "But you guys are the only major network without it, do you know how bad that makes you look?" He said (of course) "Nothing I can do about it. I think even their HD is horrible." Now this is coming from a guy who WORKS there. He says he gets his HD via cable.

Now the fact that they are filling up at a Getgo also gives you an idea of how cheap Raycom is. You would think that they would have a company credit card for a major oil company.

They probably make their guys shop at Giant Eagle so they can save money on gas purchased for Raycom. This company is so tight it's squeeks.

For HD MM:

DirecTV added Fox Business Netork today at Channel 359 in both SD and HD.

Forgot to check before posting!
Directv also added the following today:

Cartoon Network (296)
Fuel (612)
FX (248)
HGTv (229-1)
Speed (607)
FSN Detroit (636)
FSN West (652)
FSN Prime Ticket (653)

As well as 6 HD PPV channels

WOIOs HD is unwatchable. They split off bandwidth for that stupid weather channel, and the PQ is awful.

I dont really mind the Browns not being in HD, because the poor quality just makes me angry.

II have talked to engineering, and they dont seem to be able to do much (anything) about it. :(

loved CBS HD back in 2000. The OTA signal was great.

Now, it just breaks my heart for CBS football to be a pixellated mess.

Lighting Guy:
I have the MY HD 120 and you must select the proper resolution in the menu as there are about 10 different ones available. If the proper resolution is selected for your TV (720P or 1080i) and you still have 480i you are using the wrong inputs to the tv. You must use the component analog component output of the MY HD 120 or DVI if the TV will accept it. Here is a stupid question---Is your tv an HDTV?
JJK

Forgot to check before posting!
Directv also added the following today:

Cartoon Network (296)
Fuel (612)
FX (248)
HGTv (229-1)
Speed (607)
FSN Detroit (636)
FSN West (652)
FSN Prime Ticket (653)

As well as 6 HD PPV channels

Thank you.

The List (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11732143&postcount=9752) amended to add 6 more to D*'s HD Count:

(BTW, please also note that the RSN's/PPV's will not count toward the list, unless relevant to our local Cleveland market, (ie FSN-OH or STO) but will be noted with an "*" and mentioned in the Notes at the bottom of the spreadsheet.

This bring's D* HD count to 51! Channels added to the list were:

1. Fox Business Network (359)
2. HGTV HD (229-1)
3. FX HD (248)
4. Speed Network HD (607)
5. Fuel HD (612)
6. The Cartoon Network (296)

At this point, Big Ten Network games will not be re-broadcast on any local channels. The rest of Ohio State's football games this year will be on ESPN or ABC, but the major issue will be when basketball starts up. BTN will have a large number of games.


just found your post. You were right, it finally showed up on the D* guide for the BTN channel right before the game(it said 'to be announced' most of the day). The Kent State - OSU game looked a little fuzzy but glad to receive it - couldnt' find it anywhere else.

I notice that Adam Shapiro (formerly of WEWS) is now a reporter for Fox Business Network. During a story today he took an opportunity to say "Go Tribe" as part of his report!

Wasn't those rumored TWC HD channels planned to launch today? Anybody see them?

Wasn't those rumored TWC HD channels planned to launch today? Anybody see them?

That's why they are "rumored" TWC HD channels.:)

That's why they are "rumored" TWC HD channels.:)

True, I guess we are talking about TWC here...

Here's an interesting article about how things are going at AT&T U-verse:

http://www.cable360.net/technology/advancedsvcs/26065.html

Here's an interesting article about how things are going at AT&T U-verse:

http://www.cable360.net/technology/advancedsvcs/26065.html

Factor that makes it totally unsat for me is the limit of one HD channel at any one time. During prime time, we very frequently are watching one previously recorded program while recoring two new ones.

Factor that makes it totally unsat for me is the limit of one HD channel at any one time. During prime time, we very frequently are watching one previously recorded program while recoring two new ones.


Wow, that really sucks. I haven't had time to read the article but considering I never watch anything "live" except sports and I record frequently as many as 6 HD shows during some primetime nights I couldn't work with that.

Jeez man! When did this become the old fart thread? :)Living up to your handle, eh? :p Just wait, SP you'll see what it's like to be an "old fart", sooner than you think :D

Living up to your handle, eh? :p Just wait, SP you'll see what it's like to be an "old fart", sooner than you think :D

:D

:D

If an "old fart" hadn't invented television, you'd still be watching your radio :p

Lighting Guy:
I have the MY HD 120 and you must select the proper resolution in the menu as there are about 10 different ones available. If the proper resolution is selected for your TV (720P or 1080i) and you still have 480i you are using the wrong inputs to the tv. You must use the component analog component output of the MY HD 120 or DVI if the TV will accept it. Here is a stupid question---Is your tv an HDTV?
JJK

Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?

I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this... :mad:

Why would Time Warner reencode the HD channels into 480i? It makes no sense.

Has anyone heard when DirecTV will broadcast the HD version of PBS? Are they already carrying PBS HD in other markets? I live in the greater Cleveland area (go Tribe!) and would love to be able to see Ken Burns': "The War" in HD! One of the local Cable providers carries PBS HD already so I figure D* may do it soon?

Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but I'll ask anyway.

I'm trying to view HDTV on my PC monitor (Samsung 226cw - which I highly recommend). I live in Novelty (TWC Cleveland Heights), and could only get a few channels OTA with a interior antenna. So I thought that clear QAM would be the way to go. I'm having very little success.

I tried the VisionTek (Ati chip) HD 650 and the channel scan returned nothing. I'm not sure if it is the lame card or lack of an actual clear QAM signal. I was under the impression that clear QAM is a FCC requirement, at least for the local digital channels.

So my question is:

Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? I would try the Hauppauge/WinTV 1600 but not all of them are QAM capable and I don't think that BestBuy would appreciate me opening all their boxes to check the the product code sticker... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs. Any help would be appreciated.

Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?

I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this... :mad:

If you call TW they will probably say, gee, sorry about your problem but if you would like to PAY for digital channels and HD service, we would be happy to provide you a decoder box.....:)

Not to make you feel bad but I watched the Tribe game in glorious HD and DD 5.1 last night. It was great.

Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?

I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this... :mad:

It sounded weird to me, too, so I checked what I'm getting on my MyHD card that's installed in my computer. Sure enough, T/W is transmitting SD signals where they used to have HD. It's affecting at least 3, 5, and 8. Yet my SA8300 DVR is still showing HD on those channels. That's as far as I've gotten so far, but I'll try to check deeper to see what's going on.

It sounded weird to me, too, so I checked what I'm getting on my MyHD card that's installed in my computer. Sure enough, T/W is transmitting SD signals where they used to have HD. It's affecting at least 3, 5, and 8. Yet my SA8300 DVR is still showing HD on those channels. That's as far as I've gotten so far, but I'll try to check deeper to see what's going on.

Jim, are they required to provide the hd signals to QAM customers? I know cable cards they have to. Just wondering.

Jim, are they required to provide the hd signals to QAM customers? I know cable cards they have to. Just wondering.
No, they're not required to, but they've been doing so for a very long time, so I wouldn't have expected it to change. And why would they change it on only a handful of channels? WVIZ, Discovery channel, and TNT are still coming in full HD.

The weird thing is that I can't tell what's changed. I've checked my SA8300 and the affected channels are still coming in on physical channels 104 and 105, just as they have been. My computer is still looking for them in the same place, but it's finding SD instead. This doesn't make a lot of sense.

I'm running a new channel scan on my PC right now, so maybe that will shed some additional light.

Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but I'll ask anyway. Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? ... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs.

I'm not in Geauga county, but I have TWC (in Green). I have an HDHomeRun box, and I'm thinking of adding a second one. They're kind of expensive per-tuner, but they somehow fool Windows Media Center into thinking the QAM signals are OTA. I believe there's some new unsupported way to get QAM into Vista, but I'm still using WMC2005, and AFAIK the HDHR is the only way to do QAM with that. Anyway, the thing works great, and because it works over the network, you can hook up the cable signals where they come in, rather than having to run them to your PC, which can be a big advantage too.

Yeah man I've been watching HDTV for about 9 months now. It was literally just a few days ago that most of the HD channels I had are now 480i, and I didn't change anything. The onscreen information says the feed is 480i (used to say 720p or 1080i), so it must be what TWC is feeding. Like I mentioned, CBS-HD is still displaying 1080i, and the MYHD says so. I am just confused why TWC did this. Anybody have a number to someone at TWC who will know what I'm talking about if I say QAM?

I can't watch the tribe game in hd because of this... :mad:

Additional SD streams were added to those frequencies. Retrain your equipment to locate the HD PIDs again.

I'm running a new channel scan on my PC right now, so maybe that will shed some additional light.
OK, I've got it figured out. T/W moved some of their QAM HD channels from one subchannel to another. They are still on the same physical channel, but the subchannel has changed. Here are the current assignments:

WKYC-HD 104-3
WEWS-HD 105-3
WJW-HD 105-4
WUAB-HD 104-4
TNT-HD 88-2
WVIZ-HD 113-1
Discovery-HD 86-2
WOIO-HD 113-2

Lighting Guy, you can edit your mcl file for your MyHD card directly to correct the channels, or you can just do a new channel scan. I think you'll find it easier to edit the current listing - you need only change those first four channels to the correct subchannel. Don't forget to update your CWEPG settings if you use that.

BTW, I'm glad you brought this up - my PC captured SC versions of some shows last night, but now that won't happen again (at least until the next time T/W changes something without telling us).

I'll attach my current mcl file (zipped) so you can use that if you like.

Didn't Lighting Guy already say that he did a rescan on his tv and that it didn't change anything?

Has anyone heard when DirecTV will broadcast the HD version of PBS? Are they already carrying PBS HD in other markets? I live in the greater Cleveland area (go Tribe!) and would love to be able to see Ken Burns': "The War" in HD! One of the local Cable providers carries PBS HD already so I figure D* may do it soon?Do you get the Cleveland locals in HD via D*? I bet they only carry the "Big 4" in true HD. The only way to get PBS HD is OTA. I see you are in Painesville, you'll have a tough time getting either PBS station OTA there until WVIZ works out it's problems with the owners of their tower.

Right now most of us can get WEAO/WNEO OTA but Lake County is blocked by terrain. if you can put up a 50' tower, try and get either Akron or the Youngstown area signals.

Does anyone with TWC in Geauga county have any suggestions for Hardware/Software to receive QAM HD on a PC? I would try the Hauppauge/WinTV 1600 but not all of them are QAM capable and I don't think that BestBuy would appreciate me opening all their boxes to check the the product code sticker... and the HDHomeRun seems a bit overkill for my needs. Any help would be appreciated.

I'm not in Geauga county, but I'd recommend your trying the AutumnWave OnAir GT. http://www.autumnwave.com/

If you order it from Walmart you can return it to the store if it doesn't work for you. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4995009

A tech from AutumnWave monitors this thread in the HTPC forum if you have any specific questions. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

I like the HDHomeRun. In Green, I only get HD locals, the PPV & NBA preview channels, & a few random digital simulcast channels (they change every few months.)

I'm not in Geauga county, but I'd recommend your trying the AutumnWave OnAir GT. http://www.autumnwave.com/

If you order it from Walmart you can return it to the store if it doesn't work for you. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4995009

A tech from AutumnWave monitors this thread in the HTPC forum if you have any specific questions. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589

I tried the AutumnWave GT on a Win2k Sp2 box; it was really ugly. I think the specs call for something higher, but I tried it anyway. So don't.

On the other hand, I've had good results on the same machine with the Dvico Fusion-5 Gold. Of course YMMV.

OK, I've got it figured out. T/W moved some of their QAM HD channels from one subchannel to another. They are still on the same physical channel, but the subchannel has changed. Here are the current assignments:

WKYC-HD 104-3
WEWS-HD 105-3
WJW-HD 105-4
WUAB-HD 105-3
TNT-HD 88-2
WVIZ-HD 113-1
Discovery-HD 86-2
WOIO-HD 113-2

Lighting Guy, you can edit your mcl file for your MyHD card directly to correct the channels, or you can just do a new channel scan. I think you'll find it easier to edit the current listing - you need only change those first four channels to the correct subchannel. Don't forget to update your CWEPG settings if you use that.

BTW, I'm glad you brought this up - my PC captured SC versions of some shows last night, but now that won't happen again (at least until the next time T/W changes something without telling us).

I'll attach my current mcl file (zipped) so you can use that if you like.

AH HA!

I'm not crazy... well, not this time anyway. I did indeed do a rescan just yesterday and didn't find those new channels. I'm doing it again as I type, and if that doesn't work I'll just change the mcl file. That was pretty random of TWC to do this, but hopefully it means good things... :confused:

Thanks Jim

Do you get the Cleveland locals in HD via D*? I bet they only carry the "Big 4" in true HD. The only way to get PBS HD is OTA. I see you are in Painesville, you'll have a tough time getting either PBS station OTA there until WVIZ works out it's problems with the owners of their tower.

Right now most of us can get WEAO/WNEO OTA but Lake County is blocked by terrain. if you can put up a 50' tower, try and get either Akron or the Youngstown area signals.

I thought Time Warner had WVIZ in HD! I do get ABC, CBS, NBC, & FOX in HD via DirecTV. I don't use OTA anymore. Do you think the "tower" issue might have something to do with D* not carrying it?

I thought Time Warner had WVIZ in HD! I do get ABC, CBS, NBC, & FOX in HD via DirecTV. I don't use OTA anymore. Do you think the "tower" issue might have something to do with D* not carrying it?

TWC does carry WVIZ-HD. I get it QAM.

Also WNEO-HD and WNEO-DT are on Time Warner. WNEO is MUCH easier to get OTA. And WNEO is better. The other day I saw a show in 5.1 on WNEO.

Also WNEO-HD and WNEO-DT are on Time Warner. WNEO is MUCH easier to get OTA. And WNEO is better. The other day I saw a show in 5.1 on WNEO.

Not in my are it isn't available on TW although it is listed in their channels list on line.

....if that doesn't work I'll just change the mcl file.
I don't know how I messed that up, but here is the correct info for WUAB:

WUAB-HD 104-4

I've corrected it in the original post above as well.

BTW, the mcl file that I posted had it right all along.

I don't know how I messed that up, but here is the correct info for WUAB:

WUAB-HD 104-4

I've corrected it in the original post above as well.

BTW, the mcl file that I posted had it right all along.

Yep I noticed that while editing my mcl list, and looked at your mcl list to make sure. Thanks for that. I figured out the problem I did with the rescan a couple days ago, I didn't clear everything first, so it did not find a "new" channel for WKYC-HD (for example). Once I cleared everything it found the new channels/subchannels correctly. I got to watch the 9th inning in HD. :D

OT...

Went to the Tribe game last night. What an experience! There is no comparison to Playoff Baseball at Jacob's Field! Here's to hoping that we take the AL Pennant in front of our home crowd on Thursday!

Go Tribe. Magic Number is at 5.

Magic number at 5... I like that :), too funny :).
I have a good feeling about game five. ALL the pressure is off the Indians and especially Sabathia. They're on a roll and I think they're gonna win on Thursday too.

GO TRIBE

OT...

Went to the Tribe game last night. What an experience! There is no comparison to Playoff Baseball at Jacob's Field! Here's to hoping that we take the AL Pennant in front of our home crowd on Thursday!

Go Tribe. Magic Number is at 5.

Either you go to the game on Thursday or you are to stayed glued to your HDTV for the entire game. I'm very superstitious and if they lose on Thursday I'll think it's your fault.;)

I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.
Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.
JJK

Either you go to the game on Thursday or you are to stayed glued to your HDTV for the entire game. I'm very superstitious and if they lose on Thursday I'll think it's your fault.;)

I don't have ticks to the Thursday game, but trust me, I will be glued to my HD screen for every minute of the action on Thursday. I just haven't decided whether or not to go up to The Boneyard in Mayfield and watch on their 25' HD Projection Screen, or just watch at home. Watching these games in public with mass Tribe fans is quite a thrill....

I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.
Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.
JJK

I noticed that too. I thought it was just artifacts from the downrezzed picture I have (I'm watching WJW-DT downrezzed to 480i). Other HD games I've watched on this system did not have the visual noise I see during the ALCS.

Have no real complaints regarding the Fox OTA transmission other than a sound issue. All my 5.1 Dolby receiver kept picking up was Joe Buck’s pro Boston commentary. Apparently the complementary Cleveland comments kept getting clipped. Gee, I hope Fox fixes that soon.

{tongue out of cheek}
What a couple of hack commentators. “Boston can come back from 3 down like they did against the Yankees” “If Wakefield does get a glove on that Cabrerra hit the Indians would be down 3 runs to 1”

Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda. If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle.

Of course, the same thing happened back in the 90's with Bob Costas' pro New York slant.

GLuis, they will be eating crow soon enough :). I think on Thursday (if it's not rained out) I'll turn on the radio and watch the game with the mute intact. I myself am sick of hearing all that garbage. Like I said though... soon enough.

GLuis, they will be eating crow soon enough :). I think on Thursday (if it's not rained out) I'll turn on the radio and watch the game with the mute intact. I myself am sick of hearing all that garbage. Like I said though... soon enough.


Yeah, I've tried that but there is too much of a delay between the radio and video. Heck, there is even a delay between OTA HD and SD. The other night I was watching the game on HD while my son was up in his room watching it on SD, both OTA. I hear him clapping and yelling while I'm still seeing Trot Nixon just about to swing the bat. Bang, there's the hit.

Of course, with the condition of his bedroom he's probably hiding a time warp worm hole under all the crap and is able to see 5 seconds into the future.

I was watching the game via Directv HD, my girlfriend was on the phone via WOW cable and I had the radio on.

WTAM first
WOW - 3 seconds after WTAM
Directv - 10 seconds after WOW!

I don't get a good signal for Fox OTA, so I don't know where that would fit into the mix!

Go Tribe

I was watching the game via Directv HD, my girlfriend was on the phone via WOW cable and I had the radio on.

WTAM first
WOW - 3 seconds after WTAM
Directv - 10 seconds after WOW!

I don't get a good signal for Fox OTA, so I don't know where that would fit into the mix!

That doesn't surprise me that much that Directv is behind, but it does surprise me that WTAM was in front of WOW (but maybe not as its less information to travel...). Last night I was leaving the Q after working and stopped for a couple minutes to watch a TV outside a bar, it was funny to hear Jacobs field go nuts for a hit, and than see it on Fox about 3 seconds later.

When I was watching a Dodger game on MLB Extra Innings being carried by Prime Ticket (A Fox Sports channel in L.A.), I was talking to my friend out in L.A. and he could hear my feed while I was talking to him. I was actually a few seconds ahead of his feed.

I know that HD in my house is always a bit slower then OTA, I have one channel that comes through OTA (SD) and it's always ahead of my HD channel.

With the radio being locally produced and broadcast it would naturally be the quickest. The TV signal has a few satellite bounces involved between the network feed and our providers whether it be cable, OTA, Dish, Direct, etc.

Lot of mileage involved there adding up to time. 5 to 10 seconds though is unbelievable.

With the radio being locally produced and broadcast it would naturally be the quickest. The TV signal has a few satellite bounces involved between the network feed and our providers whether it be cable, OTA, Dish, Direct, etc.

Lot of mileage involved there adding up to time. 5 to 10 seconds though is unbelievable.Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay. And a digital signal adds to the latency (it takes measurable time for the program to be encoded at the origination and then decoded at the receiver). That is one advantage analog had over digital. While there is also some latency in terrestrial analog transmissions the delay is measured in microseconds as opposed to seconds.

I did notice that the FOX OTA HD feed was a bit on the noisy side in the low light areas.
Not exactly the best quality---Oh I forgot, this is the Cleveland market.
JJK

yeah I noticed that too, but I thought well maybe my toshiba is not good at blacks, because I have seen it before, but the funny thing is, I saw it on prison break on fox, seeing apattern here, and glad I am not the only one (really thought I got a crappy tv, one of the reasons we bought of toshiba was for the playoffs :) )

FOX8 also had several freeze up today. It was during the 4:30 to 5:15 hour. I ended up switching to WEWS.

Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay. And a digital signal adds to the latency (it takes measurable time for the program to be encoded at the origination and then decoded at the receiver).

Well, not that much of a delay. Round-trip time is roughly 0.242 seconds. ;)

mike

Have no real complaints regarding the Fox OTA transmission other than a sound issue. All my 5.1 Dolby receiver kept picking up was Joe Buck’s pro Boston commentary. Apparently the complementary Cleveland comments kept getting clipped. Gee, I hope Fox fixes that soon.

An easy solution is to turn the volume on your center channel to zero and dispense with the motor-mouths!

An easy solution is to turn the volume on your center channel to zero and dispense with the motor-mouths!


Hot damn, never thought of that. Going to give it a shot tonight.

The time delay is not (for the most part) the trip to the satellite and back.
It's digital signal processing and data compression. Watching a local channel news show in HD and the same show in SD on PiP, the analog may be 2 seconds ahead of the HD digital.

Well, not that much of a delay. Round-trip time is roughly 0.242 seconds. ;)

mikeIt's way more than 0.242 seconds! I read where someone used a satellite uplink/downlink to create a video delay (i.e. they received their own signal back at the same location). This was using an analog signal! I don't have the exact amount of time it took but it had to be at least a few seconds (maybe as much as 5 to 7 seconds). As I posted earlier and Kevin confirmed, digital encoding and decoding takes additional time.

For those of you who get your local stations via E* or D* measure the delay between the OTA signal and the satellite delivered signal. It's at least a 15 to 20 second delay!

It's way more than 0.242 seconds! I read where someone used a satellite uplink/downlink to create a video delay (i.e. they received their own signal back at the same location). This was using an analog signal! I don't have the exact amount of time it took but it had to be at least a few seconds (maybe as much as 5 to 7 seconds). As I posted earlier and Kevin confirmed, digital encoding and decoding takes additional time.

For those of you who get your local stations via E* or D* measure the delay between the OTA signal and the satellite delivered signal. It's at least a 15 to 20 second delay!


I agrre with Mike about the time for the signal to get to the satellite and back. I ran the math and also get .2415919 seconds for the 22,500 mile round trip.

Ray

There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.

There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.

Analog processing latency is negligible, but digital latency (especially if there's any stat muxing going on) can be huge and variable.

There is more involved than just the raw speed of light. Once the signal hits the satellite it has to be processed on the bird and resent on a different frequency. That adds to the latency, even with an analog signal.

I was referring to where you said "Not really, 22,500 miles one way to the satellites = one heck of a delay." I agree there is significant delay in the processing and relaying of the digital feed - only pointing out the RF travel time is a relatively insignificant part of the overall delay.

No worries...

A lot of RF relay systems (both analog and digital) implement an intentional delay to cut off "badness" before the signal is delivered to the end user. If something comes in on the receiver that shouldn't go back out, the delayed signal can be filtered before going back out. I wouldn't be surprised if D* and E* do something similar...

mike

Amended HD List (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11732143&postcount=9752) as E* added NHL-HD to their lineup.....

Is there anywhere in the Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown area that I can purchase Channel Master 4228 antenna locally?

Is there anywhere in the Cleveland, Akron, Canton, Youngstown area that I can purchase Channel Master 4228 antenna locally?
Have you checked Philcap in Akron? (I have not been to the store in 2 years)
www.philcap.com
330.253.2109

Watching the OSU vs. Michigan St. Game on WEWS ABC. The game is supposed to be in HD. It appears someone hasn't flipped the switch yet as it's still in SD. :mad:

Watching the OSU vs. Michigan St. Game on WEWS ABC. The game is supposed to be in HD. It appears someone hasn't flipped the switch yet as it's still in SD. :mad:

Well, it appears the switch was finally flipped on following the Bucks first possession and touchdown.

Hello, i searched some of the pages about not being able to recieve WKYC HD

i can get the other channels at almost 100 all the time

i am using the terk hdtva indoor amplified antenna

i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?

Hello, i searched some of the pages about not being able to recieve WKYC HD

i can get the other channels at almost 100 all the time

i am using the terk hdtva indoor amplified antenna

i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?

Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.

i have dishnetwork...which i heard they were adding local hd channels to the HD bundle in 3-6 months..anyone else hear this?

Yeah, I heard the same thing about 2 years ago, and got sick of waiting so I switched to Direct TV.

I'm not near my HD stuff so I can't see it...

But has WOIO "19 Action News" become HD??? I'm watching on an SD set away from home and they are using the "19 Action News HD" graphics all over the place...

I just can't understand why anyone would watch "19 Action News"!:)
It's comparable to watching Jerry Springer to get tips on relationships.:D

As you all know TBSHD has been around for a few weeks. www.zap2it.com has not as of yet added it to their listings on channel 778. This is important for me as my S3 relies on Tribune Media to give me my channel data. So while I can see channel 778 I cannot get any program data.

The reason I'm asking for assistance is I have talked to TiVo and Tribune Media now until I am blue in the face. If you guys who have TW would be so kind, please click here (feedback@zap2it.com) and send them an email requesting they add channel 778 to their listings.

To make it simple just copy what I have below and send it to them

On the subject line: Lineup Discrepency

Cable System: Time Warner Neo - Digital 44202
Phone number: 877.772.2253
Provider Service: Digital HD Cable
Problem: Channel 778 is nowTBSHD. Please change this in your system.
Problem: Channel 185 is now FBN. Please also change this in your system.

I get the feeling I'm the only one complaining, and maybe I'm wrong but if a couple of you guys will pitch in with me, perhaps this will get quicker results. It should only talke a couple of seconds of your time and will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Hook.

I sent my own, hookbill. Thanks!

And you know how I feel about 19 Tabloid News. Now that they're in HD, I still won't watch them until, well, they actually put a real newscast on!

Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.


you know when they are supposed to be switching to 17?

yeah the terk is the 2nd antenna i got with low vhf reception, with no luck, but the other channels are better than the old antenna i had

I had to check out a bit of the 19 news at 11. What a joke. They didn't spend a dime on an HD set. Denise Dufala (sp?) in HD, with a soccer net behind her. Real classy. :lol:

I can't wait to see Tiffany Amber blonde what 'er name with the contrast turned up to 11.

I sent my own, hookbill. Thanks!

And you know how I feel about 19 Tabloid News. Now that they're in HD, I still won't watch them until, well, they actually put a real newscast on!

Thanks Inundated.

And as far as 19 news goes, I haven't had a chance to look at them. Maybe tonight I'll take a look at bed time since there is no baseball to look at.

Speaking of baseball, sorry Tribe fans. I pulled for you which was quite an accomplishment for me considering how long I've been a Red Sox fan. Now that it's over however I can root for the Sox again as they are going against one of my Dodger's nemesis, the Colorado Rockies. What a bunch of lucky b**tards. Red Sox in 5.

Channel 19 news is a spinofff of the National Enquirer. (We got the story 10 seconds faster than anybody else)
JJK

Can someone please confirm that WOIO has actually gone HD? Why no announcement at their site about the new local HD newscasts? Is it just a soft launch with a big announcement geared for November sweeps?

Probably more of a "Shh, maybe nobody will notice we're the last to the game" move.

Thanks Inundated.

And as far as 19 news goes, I haven't had a chance to look at them. Maybe tonight I'll take a look at bed time since there is no baseball to look at.

Speaking of baseball, sorry Tribe fans. I pulled for you which was quite an accomplishment for me considering how long I've been a Red Sox fan. Now that it's over however I can root for the Sox again as they are going against one of my Dodger's nemesis, the Colorado Rockies. What a bunch of lucky b**tards. Red Sox in 5.

Better luck next year for my beloved Indians :(:o:(.
Hook, I really could care less now who does or doesn't win the WS, but I don't think Boston has much of a chance. I'd pick the Rockies in 6.;)

Anyone out there on Canton TWC picking up any new QAM channels over the last few weeks? I have done several scans and come up with no additions.

I'm in Canton and nothing new for me either.

Can someone please confirm that WOIO has actually gone HD? Why no announcement at their site about the new local HD newscasts? Is it just a soft launch with a big announcement geared for November sweeps?

Not trying to be a wise guy but a couple of respected members of this forum have already confirmed it. If you have a HD television you can confirm it yourself, it comes on at 4:00 pm today.

Hi, is the Terk designed to receive low VHF(digital 2)? WKYC is one of the hardest to pull in due to interference. Hopefully WKYC will be more reliable when they move to (digital 17). We couldn't get any usable signal yesterday for most of the day which is strange. Maybe they had a technical issue that made it worse than usual yesterday. It's coming in ok now.

Any new schedule or timetable for both WKYC or WVIZ hd tower upgrades?

Picture looks pretty soft to me, or the anchors are wearing heavy amounts of makeup! They had some technical problems this afternoon and I saw a green screen more than once. I'm obviously not planning to watch it regularly, but I guess we should be happy that they've moved forward.

Picture looks pretty soft to me, or the anchors are wearing heavy amounts of makeup! They had some technical problems this afternoon and I saw a green screen more than once. I'm obviously not planning to watch it regularly, but I guess we should be happy that they've moved forward.

I won't consider it a move forward until they add Dolby 5.1.

I just took a look at Tabloid 19 News in HD. I remember WEWS had some problems starting up too but this was just plain ugly. The real "HD" picture looked washed out to me and their remote shots had lines running through them. Weather looked awful with those borders.

Hope they plan on doing more because right now they arn't doing themselves any favor.

Plus, they still don't have DD sound. Their studio HD news still has two channel audio.

Hard to imagine they would invest the money to originate HD programming; but would not invest the much smaller amount to provide DD (which would also allow them to "pass on" the network DD).

WUAB has already added 5.1. I first noticed it on Saturday. It seems really dumb that the old sitcom/talk show/judge show/paid program channel would get 5.1 and CBS-HD(who actually has HD programming) doesn't get 5.1. But then again, what do you expect from the Reserve Square Failures? Two weeks ago, the news craw was unreadable from all the ghosting on their HD channel.

If they did, it sure isn't consistent. Just checked recording of last night's Cold Case. It's 2.0.0.

You possibly were confused by a "Dolby Digital" display on your receiver or processor. But if you go further you will see that it is 2.0.0 Dolby Digital and not 3.2.1.

If they did, it sure isn't consistent. Just checked recording of last night's Cold Case. It's 2.0.0.



Cold case is on WOIO. Nickdawg is saying WUAB has 5.1. And if it's true it makes no sense that WUAB would have it and not WOIO.

Cold case is on WOIO. Nickdawg is saying WUAB has 5.1. And if it's true it makes no sense that WUAB would have it and not WOIO.

Duuh!! First mistake I ever made.

I just flipped on WUAB-HD and I'll be damned if I don't see the Simpsons (in upgraded SD) and the Dolby 5.1 signal on my receiver.

I suppose they think that a "younger" crowd which watches that crap they put on "My 43" appreciates Dolby more or might be attracted to watch?

Yep. I'm getting 3/2 on Family Guy. Just like Raycom to do something like this...

Doesn't My Network TV run some music shows? Maybe that's why.

CBS released their NFL HD plans for the upcoming week 7 through week 9. Good news Browns fans; 2 of our next 3 games will be in HD!

Sunday, Oct. 28th- Cleveland @ St. Louis- 1pm. CBS-SD :mad:
Sunday, Nov. 4th- Cleveland vs. Seattle- 4pm. FOX-HD :D
Sunday, Nov. 11th- Cleveland @ Pittsburgh- 1pm. CBS-HD :D

CBS released their NFL HD plans for the upcoming week 7 through week 9. Good news Browns fans; 2 of our next 3 games will be in HD!

Sunday, Oct. 28th- Cleveland @ St. Louis- 1pm. CBS-SD :mad:
Sunday, Nov. 4th- Cleveland vs. Seattle- 4pm. FOX-HD :D
Sunday, Nov. 11th- Cleveland @ Pittsburgh- 1pm. CBS-HD :D

In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.

At least the FOX game will have decent PQ.

I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.
JJK

I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.
JJK

Let me understand this. We're at Fenway Park. The bullpen is out by the bleachers. There are about 35,000 very die hard Boston fans yelling, screaming, threatening lives, but a few sticks being rubbed together in the bullpen disturbed them?:rolleyes:

Let me understand this. We're at Fenway Park. The bullpen is out by the bleachers. There are about 35,000 very die hard Boston fans yelling, screaming, threatening lives, but a few sticks being rubbed together in the bullpen disturbed them?:rolleyes:

Are the die-hard fans those in the pink Red Sox hats, or the green shamrock Red Sox shirts? "Die Hard since 2004" maybe.... :)

In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.

For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.

For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.

Really? Everyone I look at is in HD.

In fact CBS is only broadcasting one game in HD, and that's because it is Pittsburg. FOX of course broadcast all their games in HD.

According to the following, all the CBS games, other than the Browns, are HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11982220&postcount=1

For hopefully the last time, FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD.

I know we've had this conversation before, but I am still unsure of your statement: "FOX DOES NOT BROADCAST ALL OF THEIR NFL GAMES IN HD."

You sure you don't mean, the NFC does not broadcast all of their games in HD?

According to the following, all the CBS games, other than the Browns, are HD:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11982220&postcount=1

I think Hook meant 1 game out of the 3 week window I gave for the Browns....

you know when they are supposed to be switching to 17?

yeah the terk is the 2nd antenna i got with low vhf reception, with no luck, but the other channels are better than the old antenna i had


WKYC's digital 17 wont come on till WDLI-TV Canton's analog 17 shuts off and moves to digital channel 39. I just got the Terk HDTVa..It does a little better on the stations I do get, but no vhf digital..

I think Hook meant 1 game out of the 3 week window I gave for the Browns....

"I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Question: (possibly a dumb one)

I have two indoor amplified antennas..If I can find a way to activate them both using a splitter and pointing them different directions, would it double the signals I receive?

WOIO-DT in 5.1!

I'm not sure when it happened, but as of 3:30PM when I turned on WOIO-HD , it's coming through as Dolby Digital 3/2.1! Finally! I can't wait to see how primetime shows are. Last nights CSI Miami in 2.0 was bad(like usual).

Sooohm Beeatch! That is good news! :)

Sooohm Beeatch! That is good news! :)

+1:):)

Wow, what a day. TiVo2Go was made available for the S3 today and this news makes it a wonderful day in the world of electronics. I can't get anything done with all this excitement.

Now if only WKYC would fix their sound. WEWS, WUAB and WOIO are in 5.1 all the time, even on local programming and it sounds grreat. WKYC reads "Dolby Digital 3/2" on local programming and the sound is horrible. The center speaker is NEVER on and it sounds like just L and R. Sound is very low during news. Has anyone else noticed this?

Now if only WKYC would fix their sound. WEWS, WUAB and WOIO are in 5.1 all the time, even on local programming and it sounds grreat. WKYC reads "Dolby Digital 3/2" on local programming and the sound is horrible. The center speaker is NEVER on and it sounds like just L and R. Sound is very low during news. Has anyone else noticed this?


I dont' think it's WKYC's issue. Some of the programs, like Las Vegas have great 5.1 sound. Others like any of the law & order series you have to crank up your back speakers to get a whisper.

I dont' think it's WKYC's issue. Some of the programs, like Las Vegas have great 5.1 sound. Others like any of the law & order series you have to crank up your back speakers to get a whisper.

I was talking about the news and afternoon talk shows. They used to be in 2.0 and NBC shows were 5.1. Local programming and afternoon syndicated shows used to be in 2.0, like FOX8 does.

Question: (possibly a dumb one)

I have two indoor amplified antennas..If I can find a way to activate them both using a splitter and pointing them different directions, would it double the signals I receive?

This might work: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=CC7870

got an email from WKYC Senior producer frank macek---

Hi Mike,



Funny you ask…I was just talking to our chief engineer about this a few days ago…and it is not likely until near the February 2008 cut off date.



It’s not that we are not ready to go The Canton station on Channel 17 analog will not leave the channel until then…so we are kinda stuck waiting for them to move. An analog and digital channel apparently can not broadcast on the same channel at the same time.. I don’t understand it all, but that’s the deal.



Have you tried getting an HD booster antennae.. I believe Radio Shack has them and it might help.



Thanks for writing.


also...

Mike,

Yes, you are correct we planning to move to channel 17. While we do not have final permission from the FCC this should happen at the analog cut-off date of February 17th 2009.


Mike Szabo
Directory of Technology
WKYC-TV

is it 08 or 09?

09

By the way, yes, FOX has a non-HD NFL game or two. I think they can do up to 6 in HD, and if there's a game 7 on a week, it's not.

FOX does send up the odd game out in SD widescreen mode, tho...

And the analog cutoff date is indeed in 2009.

You're right Inundated and Mike_Stuewe. I stand corrected. Got this straight from Fox's site........

http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/6671136

"FOX Sports' 2007 NFL broadcast schedule once again boasts an unmatched offering of high-definition programming. Starting with three preseason broadcasts in August, six games each week during the regular season and complete coverage throughout the NFL postseason, FOX Sports presents up to 105 games in high-definition this season, representing over 90% of all games covered. FOX Sports remains the only NFL broadcaster to produce as many as six NFL regular season games in HD each Sunday."

I guess it just so happens that since we reside in an AFC and CBS market, that the majority of local viewers don't ever see the "non-HD" Fox game.....

I guess it just so happens that since we reside in an AFC and CBS market, that the majority of local viewers don't ever see the "non-HD" Fox game.....

Which explains why I see all HD on FOX games.

there is a discussion every week in the HDTV Programming forum about regarding which NFL games will be in HD. thats the best place to look for info on upcoming games.

5.1 is gone on WOIO and WUAB!

Ah, the ole' TRICK instead of TREAT :). They're probably just still working on it.

Too good to last. Man this is even shorter then the last time they fired up 5.1.

I wouldn't be surprised however to see it come back and fairly soon. Perhaps they were testing for November sweeps.

Then again who knows. Raycom is so strange.

I hope it's back by 9 or 10 tonight for CSI:NY and Criminal Minds.

OMG! As of 5:07, 5.1 is back on WOIO. Sound right, hook. The people at Reserve Square are not the sharpest crayons in the box, so things like this take them longer! :)

OMG! As of 5:07, 5.1 is back on WOIO. Sound right, hook. The people at Reserve Square are not the sharpest crayons in the box, so things like this take them longer! :)

I'm glad to hear it's back, I record a CBS show or two almost nightly. I'm still two weeks behind in my viewing so it's going to be a bit before I actually hear the network shows in 5.1.

Does anyone have a theory as to why DirecTV has a WEWS in the guide on channel 9314 (I think that's what it is) ? It's been showing up on my HR20 for the last couple weeks. I sure hope WEWS isn't getting ready to launch a subchannel or something...

Right now during "Phenomenon" is a good example of WKYC's audio problem. On WKYC-SD, the sound is 2.0 and when upconverted it sounds good and the center speaker works. On WKYC-HD, only the left and right speakers work and not one peep out of the center, but it comes through as 3/2

And WOIO was excellent tonight! Criminal Minds and CSI:NY were great in 5.1! I hope 5.1 sticks around for CSI tomorrow and the Gohst Whisperer on Friday! :)

Just confirmed that 19-1 is still DD 3.2.1. I'm amazed; but must acknowledge that so far WOIO is doing a great job with their DD. I've seen fewer problems than when 5-1 began their DD 5.1 service

I feel obliged to give them this credit; because in the past I've made many, many comments about the fact that they don't care about quality. Hope they continue to prove me wrong.

Is anyone out there able to pick up any of the Pittsburgh stations OTA ? I have heard that people with an outdoor antenna in eastern Stark County may be able to do so.

Just confirmed that 19-1 is still DD 3.2.1. I'm amazed; but must acknowledge that so far WOIO is doing a great job with their DD. I've seen fewer problems than when 5-1 began their DD 5.1 service

I feel obliged to give them this credit; because in the past I've made many, many comments about the fact that they don't care about quality. Hope they continue to prove me wrong.

WEWS to this day is still having problems. Last night I noticed the track was slightly off on a recording of "Grays Anatomy." And yes I'm sure that it's WEWS, after all I have a TiVo S3.:D

8300HD---I've also noticed some background noise on WEW-HD and sometimes the sound is off. The worst thing is during the news when there are loud bursts of sound when a different anchor starts talking or they go to a package. Their news audio has been messed up since they started HD news. But WOIO was amazing last night with CSI:NY. WKYC disappointed.

WEWS to this day is still having problems. Last night I noticed the track was slightly off on a recording of "Grays Anatomy." And yes I'm sure that it's WEWS, after all I have a TiVo S3.:D

For the argument's sake, I'll agree that your S-3 is perfect. However, maybe it's the network and not WEWS.

For the argument's sake, I'll agree that your S-3 is perfect. However, maybe it's the network and not WEWS.

Well, the S3 isn't perfect it's just the best thing out there. However I still think it's WEWS as they have problems with their newscast voice synch and other problems as noted by previous posts.

I figured out what shot down the Indians. Voodoo. Did you see what the Boston bullpen was doing when Sabathia & Carmona were pitching? Rubbing sticks togetther, making Voodoo clicking noises etc. They couldn't get the ball over the plate if they walked up to it with the Voodoo chants and noises going in the background.
JJK

Jobu is angry. Bats afraid. ;)

I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.

I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?

BJBBJB

Is anyone out there able to pick up any of the Pittsburgh stations OTA ? I have heard that people with an outdoor antenna in eastern Stark County may be able to do so.

I live in Salem which is 12 miles east of the Stark Co./Columbiana Co. border. I receive all of the normal power Pittsburgh stations 24/7 except WTAE-DT (ABC), which is sporadic. Their transmitter is 70 miles away, southeast of Pittsburgh.

I was looking at the Cavs schedule. A quick look count shows 29 HD games in the 82 game schedule.

Thank God for STO and WKYC, showing more than half of Indians games in HD. I'd be pissed to get the same treatment from FSO if they were still covering the Tribe.

Don't forget to add in the ESPN and TNT games. That'll increase the total...

I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.

I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?

BJBBJB

I doubt it's a big priority for D* since they offer HD Lil's (NBC included) to the local Cleveland market using their dish. In Direct TV's eyes, their deliverance of HD Lil's eliminates the need for OTA locals.

I am amazed that my new HR20-100 is not physically capable of receiving NBC-Channel 3 HD OTA. I guess there is a software patch that fixed this in the HR20-700 model but amazingly the bug was re-introduced in the "newer" HR20-100 model.

I am still using my trusty HD Tivo for a lot of OTA but this is unbelievable. Is this even on DTV's radar screen?

BJBBJB

See my previous post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11723262&postcount=9737

I've talked to D* a couple times about this. Both times, they have said that they input a trouble report and it would be fixed.

Unlike the above post, I do believe that they want the HR20 to function properly with OTA. That's why they "fixed" it once before and it remains fixed on the "700" version.

Please give them a call and complain. The more complaints the better. It's really a "niche" issue. Only affects those with the "100", those using OTA, and those in a market with low vhf digital station(s).

Watching Ghost Whisperer on WOIO CBS-19.1 right now. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a huge improvement and sounds great! Thank you WOIO! :)

Watching Ghost Whisperer on WOIO CBS-19.1 right now. Dolby Digital 5.1 is a huge improvement and sounds great! Thank you WOIO! :)

Many people have mentioned GW as a great show on DD 5.1. I'm so far behind on my viewing that it will take me another couple of weeks to catch up.

As a matter of fact my 500 gb eSATA is down to 68 deleted shows. While I'm not out of disk space and probably won't be I sure am glad that I can now move some shows over to my computer so I don't lose anything. Just in case. The way I keep track of disk space is by watching how many deleted shows are still around on the hard drive. Not as good as the disk meter in the cable company DVR's but it works.

So much TV....So little time.:D

Many people have mentioned GW as a great show on DD 5.1. I'm so far behind on my viewing that it will take me another couple of weeks to catch up.

As a matter of fact my 500 gb eSATA is down to 68 deleted shows. While I'm not out of disk space and probably won't be I sure am glad that I can now move some shows over to my computer so I don't lose anything. Just in case. The way I keep track of disk space is by watching how many deleted shows are still around on the hard drive. Not as good as the disk meter in the cable company DVR's but it works.

So much TV....So little time.:D

I put a 750 gb eSATA on one of my HR20s. Cost less than $200 and provides over 100 hours of HD recording.

However, on the DBSTALK HR20 forum they have a thread on a 1.5 tb eSATA (dual 750s) box that someone has developed specifically for the HR20. That should provide plenty of archiving capability.

is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.

is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.

It doesn't sound that great but I'm getting sound from front left, center, front right and left rear. I can't hear anything out of the right rear speaker.

is it just me or does the 5.1 mix of everything sound like a$$ on WUAB? everything sounds like its coming out of the left front and left rear speakers.

WUAB and WOIO sound a HELL of alot better than WKYC! I checked during the news and Racheal Ray and all I heard was sound coming out of front L and R. Not a peep out of center, SL or SR. It looks like WKYC is forcing their 2 channel sound through and calling it 5.1(It says 3/2 on WKYC-HD). I liked it better when non-NBC programming was 2.0, at least I could upconvert it and actually hear what is being said. Give us a choice, WKYC!:confused:

WUAB and WOIO sound a HELL of alot better than WKYC! I checked during the news and Racheal Ray and all I heard was sound coming out of front L and R. Not a peep out of center, SL or SR. It looks like WKYC is forcing their 2 channel sound through and calling it 5.1(It says 3/2 on WKYC-HD). I liked it better when non-NBC programming was 2.0, at least I could upconvert it and actually hear what is being said. Give us a choice, WKYC!:confused:

nickdawg, WKYC does not broadcast news or Rachel Ray in 5.1. Unlike WEWS WOIO and WUAB, WKYC AND WJW only turn the 5.1 on when they are broadcasting primetime shows or sports.

And as I said previously I agree that NBC shows in particular don't sound all that great on Dolby 5.1 but it depends upon the show. Las Vegas, you're sitting in the middle of the casino. Law & Order you barely hear anything out of the rear speakers. The Bionic Woman sounds great (not bad to look at either).;)

What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?

What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?

That only works on 2.0 that's encoded as 2.0. WKYC is "false flagging" their 2.0 sound as 5.1 and nothing can be done because the receiver thinks it is really 5.1.

That only works on 2.0 that's encoded as 2.0. WKYC is "false flagging" their 2.0 sound as 5.1 and nothing can be done because the receiver thinks it is really 5.1.

In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?

(I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)

mike

It doesn't sound that great but I'm getting sound from front left, center, front right and left rear. I can't hear anything out of the right rear speaker.

yea its almost like a pro logic I matrix with the left rear being used as the rear channel and the right rear not being used at all.

its bad enough that i can't sit through a show like that.

everything just sounds like its coming from the left. sound does come out of the front right spreaker, but not at the levels that it comes out of the front left.

What is the big deal about 2.0 encoded as 2.0, or 2.0 encoded as 5.1? Can you not get your receiver to manipulate the sound with a dsp (fake surround)?

If I receive a 5.1 signal (3/2/1) of any sort on my receiver I cannot manipulate the sound using Dolby Pro Logic II or any other Dolby setting. The receiver recognizes that true 5.1 is correct and while you can change the settings nothing happens.

Now I may be able to manipulate the sound using one of my "Theater Affects" or "Concert Hall" type things but I'm not certain.

Am watching browns game on channel 19-1. Sound is showing 5.1
When did they add 5.1 DD
Or am I mistaken

Am watching browns game on channel 19-1. Sound is showing 5.1
When did they add 5.1 DD
Or am I mistaken

roflol...dude, you really have to check in with us a bit more often. That's been the big subject this week.

WNEO-HD is also broadcasting in 5.1 surround.

Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.

Have also noticed some macroblocking on WJWD too while watching some of the World Series last night.

Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.


Yes, WEWSHD has a problem with lipsynch in it's HD broadcast. They have had it for some time now though not always noticeable, sometimes it's not even present. Macroblocking seems to be a pretty common occurence in almost every sports show I watch.

WNEO-HD is also broadcasting in 5.1 surround.

You the man, nickdawg. You must be spinning that dial and checking that 3/2/1 sign.

Put this in the category of how non observant I am. I've had my receiver for about two years now and just today I noticed that when something is in Dolby5.1 a blue light shines right under the dial. Two years it took me to notice this.:o

Have TW in Amherst, OH. Does anyone ever have problems with lipsynch delays and some macroblocking on WEWSHD? Noticed a lot on the Buckeye game last night and it is happening again tonight.

I've noticed this too. I've also noticed that the sound also seems to slightly cut out during some shows(mostly during Grey's Anatomy). Also, during the news, there are loud bursts of sound when they switch between packages or anchors. But in my opinion, WEW-HD sucks! Their HD news is HORRIBLE with the stretch-o-vision on 4:3 video and the loud bursts of sound and on other programming, the audio acts up sometimes. Where did they get their HD equipment, a yard sale? They need to get with this century. :D

In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?

(I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)

mike

That is a good idea to remedy WKYC's bad audio and still get to watch their HD news. But in this case, WKYC needs to either get the right equipment to do proper 5.1 surround like WOIO has or switch back to 2.0 for non-HD like WJW does. I don't know who they think they are fooling(except my receiver-which thinks it's 5.1 and doesn't allow ProLogic)

In a situation like this, couldn't you connect the analog L/R outs from the tuner to your amp and switch to that input to get decent 2.0 audio?

(I know it's a very inelegant workaround - I haven't yet connected my good 5.1 system to the HD tuner, so I'm kind of fumbling around in the dark. Just planning for the future when I can convince my wife we need a bunch of speakers in the living room, and knowing how things will act is good ammunition!)

mike

Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.

I'm a bit of a purist however and I prefer leaving it at Dolby 5.1. If I'm not getting much out of the rear speakers I simply pump them up 10db each. Only if I still wasn't getting anything at that point would I consider switching the sound to analog.

Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.



I believe that any STB with optical/coax digital also has analog outputs available. In that case you would have to change to a different input on your receiver.

I think that what you are discussing is something different. All of them also give you a choice of how you want your digital sound output. It could be DD or PCM (i.e., two channel). PCM allows you to use stereo, PLII, 6 channel stereo, etc.; but it isn't analog.

I believe that any STB with optical/coax digital also has analog outputs available. In that case you would have to change to a different input on your receiver.

I think that what you are discussing is something different. All of them also give you a choice of how you want your digital sound output. It could be DD or PCM (i.e., two channel). PCM allows you to use stereo, PLII, 6 channel stereo, etc.; but it isn't analog.

I was incorrect in referring to it as analog, that's exactly what it is, PCM.

You can get analog stereo out of the regular L and R (red and white) audio outputs. Also, with most STBs with digital outputs, there is a setting to change between Dolby Digital and 2 Channel PCM. At least that's how it is on my 8300HD. Analog channels are output as PCM 48 and digital channels are 2/0, 3/2.1 or 1/0. Or it can be set to only output in PCM. Funny thing is my HD DVR came default to output in 480i only and PCM audio. I had to change the settings. That's Time Warner! LOL! :D :)

You can get analog stereo out of the regular L and R (red and white) audio outputs. Also, with most STBs with digital outputs, there is a setting to change between Dolby Digital and 2 Channel PCM. At least that's how it is on my 8300HD. Analog channels are output as PCM 48 and digital channels are 2/0, 3/2.1 or 1/0. Or it can be set to only output in PCM. Funny thing is my HD DVR came default to output in 480i only and PCM audio. I had to change the settings. That's Time Warner! LOL! :D :)

When the guy first set up my old SA 8300 he didn't know how to get into the settings. Said he would come by the next day. Of course I did a web search and had it all set up by the time he returned.:) That was Adelphia.

I do think that TW is a better company to deal with then Adelphia, but that just might be because now I have a connection straight into someone at head end. If I had that when it was Adelphia I might not be thinking the same.

Time Warner can also be a pain in the arse to deal with, especially at their customer service office. I got an 8000HD from their Akron office, one did not work at all, wouldn't even boot. The second one worked for an hour and then fried itself. Called TW, had to wait an hour for a call back and then the soonest apointment for a service call was a week later. No TV but analog and unencrypted QAM for a week. Did get a credit for the guy being late, plus a new 8300HD. And before that, I had a tech that installed a non-DVR HD box and when I asked about the HDMI he said "he didn't know what that is or how to connect it."

And my moms had to wait a week for TW to fix the tap at the street before they could hook up her cable. The person that disconnected it before broke the tap.

But you are definately lucky to have a connection at Time Warner. I still prefer Tiem Warner to satellite because at least they are local and you don't have to buy equipment.

well looks like we will not have the colts patriots game this sunday, WOIO is the only channel not allowed to show it...which royally sucks!

well looks like we will not have the colts patriots game this sunday, WOIO is the only channel not allowed to show it...which royally sucks!

I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...

http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html

Actually the TiVo S3 does provide an alternative without having to move any wires. It allows you to change the sound output from "Dolby" to "analog" in the sound settings. At that point I could indeed manipulate the sound if I chose to.

I'm a bit of a purist however and I prefer leaving it at Dolby 5.1. If I'm not getting much out of the rear speakers I simply pump them up 10db each. Only if I still wasn't getting anything at that point would I consider switching the sound to analog.

I have an Onlyo receiver for my DD5.1. It will momentarily mute when it switches between DD5.1 and PLII. It gets real annoying for the networks/stations that dynamically switch between surround and stereo. NBC doesn't have dynamic metadata yet so everytime we go to local break I miss the first couple syllables. Personally (as a viewer, not a station chief) I'd rather have it stuck in surround all the time than hear the hiccup in the audio. I'm guessing that anomoly is only with the Onkyo's though so I put up with it. I'm sure if it happened to other people it'd be posted here. :D I've tried all the setups on the receiver with no luck.

I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...

http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html

see this thread, personally I think this is the dumbest thing I have heard...I am a steelers fan and would love to flip between cleveland (yes I still kinda root for them) and new england vs colts, oh well time to work on getting youngstown cbs in.

I have an Onlyo receiver for my DD5.1. It will momentarily mute when it switches between DD5.1 and PLII. It gets real annoying for the networks/stations that dynamically switch between surround and stereo. NBC doesn't have dynamic metadata yet so everytime we go to local break I miss the first couple syllables. Personally (as a viewer, not a station chief) I'd rather have it stuck in surround all the time than hear the hiccup in the audio. I'm guessing that anomoly is only with the Onkyo's though so I put up with it. I'm sure if it happened to other people it'd be posted here. :D I've tried all the setups on the receiver with no luck.

Totally agree. Leave it on Dolby 5.1 all the time. If a show is 5.1 I always take it off Pro Logic II, for some reason I think it's a good idea.:confused: I'll have to leave it on and see how mine sounds when a commercial comes on.

see this thread, personally I think this is the dumbest thing I have heard...I am a steelers fan and would love to flip between cleveland (yes I still kinda root for them) and new england vs colts, oh well time to work on getting youngstown cbs in.

For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.

Right now, WKYC is "false flagged" as 5.1 yet the sound only comes out of the L and R speakers and the volume has to be set at about 45 to 50 for decent sound. Compared to the SD channel in 2.0 that sounds great in ProLogic surround sound.

Totally disagree. It depends on the show.

The NBC shows I watched the other day, Hero's and Chuck had excellent Dolby 5.1. I didn't have to pump up the rear at all.

Now as I've said before, L&O...that needs improvement.

For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.

Bragger!:p

The NBC shows I watched the other day, Hero's and Chuck had excellent Dolby 5.1. I didn't have to pump up the rear at all.

Now as I've said before, L&O...that needs improvement.

I agree about L&O, the sound is very weak. Almost no surround effects and the dialog is low and hard to hear. But then again, none of the L&Os are done like CSI. Just about all of CBS's shows are awesome in surround.

My comments at 4:12 were about local programming and switching between 5.1 and 2.0. The local programming and syndicated shows, newscasts and non-HD NBC shows are "false flagged". During NBC HD shows, I've heard sound out of all the speakers, even if it's very low, so I believe all HD primetime shows are 5.1.

I've also noticed it in the morning, the Today show is in 5.1 and when WKYC switches to the SD version to show school closings, there is a DRASTIC drop in volume level. Also, the center speaker goes quiet, but the lights for the center and surround speakers stay lit up and no switch back to 2.0.

My real wish is that WKYC would upgrade their equipment to have surround on the news also, like WOIO does.

IMy comments at 4:12 were about local programming and switching between 5.1 and 2.0. The local programming and syndicated shows, newscasts and non-HD NBC shows are "false flagged". During NBC HD shows, I've heard sound out of all the speakers, even if it's very low, so I believe all HD primetime shows are 5.1.

I've also noticed it in the morning, the Today show is in 5.1 and when WKYC switches to the SD version to show school closings, there is a DRASTIC drop in volume level. Also, the center speaker goes quiet, but the lights for the center and surround speakers stay lit up and no switch back to 2.0.



Now we're on the same page. I have noticed that as well.

Whew :) It was hard to describe that it's on the local programming. I'm glad it's not just my equipment.

Looks like a very good year for Cavs in HD:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/

FSN Ohio has stepped up to the plate with quite a few games in HD.

For those of us still viewing TV via OTA transmissions, and living in Stark County, 27-1 in Youngstown will be showing the Colts-Patriots game in HD. And best of all, we don't pay those exhorbitant satellite fees to get it.
You don't have to be in Stark County to get WKBN-DT! I get it 24/7 in Parma (in the shadow of the WOIO tower :D ).

The coverage area for WKBN-DT extends as far west as Strongsville!
$5/mo for satellite locals is not exorbitant, but I don't have to pay it either. My E* 921's OTA tuner gets them all for free.

I wonder why Seattle isn't blacked out too - crazy stupid blackout rules...

http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2007-09-CBS2.html
OK - Here is the NFL rules regarding home games and alternate games.
When a home game is broadcast, the opposite network cannot show a game, even if the opposite network has the double-header. It's not considered a black-out, as a black-out involves a home team at home not being seen.

Seattle, being a visiting team is not deprived of an alternate game on the opposite network. Seattle, being a visiting team from the NFC is why we see the Browns on FOX.

So far, Cleveland has not lost an alternate game (until now) since all our home games were either played on the network with a double header (the opposite network's game would be scheduled for 4 PM if our home game was at 1 PM).

WKBN & WYFX are not subject to this rule, so you will see different games from time to time than what we get on WOIO & WJW. If OTOH the Browns were ever to be truly blacked-out, then WKBN & WYFX would be affected, as they are inside the blackout area.

BTW this means that on some Sundays anyone getting both Cleveland and Youngstown stations may get a double header on both networks and/or different games from the same network at the same time.

Ok watching via Time Warner QAM. Since I got home today around the news, channel 8-1 (usually fox WJW), has been showing the same thing as 5-1 (which is ABC, WEWS). Therefore, I'm getting two ABC-HD channels, and no Fox-HD. No House in HD... :(

Anybody else?

No problems in Canton. House in HD beautiful as usual. Make sure there's not something wrong with your tuner, or even maybe they did a realignment on your system and FOX-HD is on another channel.

No problems in Canton. House in HD beautiful as usual. Make sure there's not something wrong with your tuner, or even maybe they did a realignment on your system and FOX-HD is on another channel.

dammit yeah I'm going to do a rescan, but they just moved most of the digital channels like 2 weeks ago up here. I'll do it after House now so I don't miss it.

While we're sort of on the subject of bad audio, did anyone else have as much trouble watching The Unit tonight as I did? The analog audio sounded horrible - the sound effects and other background noise came through crystal-clear, but the dialog was muffled to the point you couldn't hear it if anything else was going on.

Watched NCIS right before The Unit, and everything on that show sounded fine. Weird.

From today's Plain Deceiver.

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/119381994974330.xml&coll=2

At least my E* will have it on.:p

From today's Plain Deceiver.

http://www.cleveland.com/osufootball/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/119381994974330.xml&coll=2

At least my E* will have it on.:p

WOW! So TW is actually saying that they want BTN for free because BTN is going to make more money in advertising and exposure by expanding their network through TW. That takes a lot of balls for TW to do that even though they've lost so many customers just over not having Buckeye games. I don't understand how TW keeps making money. They're either really smart, or really stupid.

That takes a lot of balls for TW to do that even though they've lost so many customers just over not having Buckeye games. I don't understand how TW keeps making money. They're either really smart, or really stupid.

Having Big Ten network means absolutely nothing to me. But I do understand how you Ohio State fans are.

Having said that did anyone catch the news reports on TV yesterday? Apparently Columbus is thinking about passing some kind of law to allow ala carte cable. Now you talk about having balls. TW's response was that if such a law is passed they will lose advertising revenue on their other channels and they would pass that on to the consumer. So if you take only lets say 50 channels, you'll still pay the same that you're paying now.

No doubt about it they play hard ball.

First time, long time.

Can anyone recommend a good outdoor OTA antenna? I'm located in Mayfield Heights. My indoor Terk is just not cutting it for channels 3.1 and 19.1. Also, can anyone recommend an antenna installer? Thanks!

Does anyone know if TW and FoxSportsNetHD have settled their dispute about showing the Cavs games in HD?

It seems TW is really slow at adding new HD channels. Do you think think that moving to Direct TV would be a good idea in the Amherst area?


Looks like a very good year for Cavs in HD:

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/

FSN Ohio has stepped up to the plate with quite a few games in HD.

Does anyone know if TW and FoxSportsNetHD have settled their dispute about showing the Cavs games in HD?

It seems TW is really slow at adding new HD channels. Do you think think that moving to Direct TV would be a good idea in the Amherst area?

I switched from cable to satellite (Dish) 5 years ago and couldn't be happier. The equipment blows cable out of the water....i do miss VOD, though.

Personally I think D* is fine, I know nothing about E* other then they got sued by TiVo for copyright infringement on their DVR.

Here's the problem with TW and HD vs D*:

Right now there are several different lineups in the area for TW. Most of this is because Adelphia never bothered to put everyone on the same line up. They've got to figure out how to do that then they will probably go to Switch Digital Video. Once they do that it will be much easier to add HD channels. They will have a great deal more bandwith.

TW knows they have to keep up and in other areas they are, just not ours. Although I have to admit why the CW hasn't been added yet is a mystery. It's not like they are "out" of bandwith now.

I wouldn't be surprised also if come 2009 TW doesn't move it's analog channels to digital. They've been playing around with that for a while now. The reason I say 2009 is because thats when all OTA goes digital and for those who just have analog now TW would be able to push their weight around. "Hey, you gotta get a digital converter if you drop us. Might as well get ours."

Cable companies, in general are very clever. This is all speculation on my part but I can see it happening.

Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.

Modified The Cleveland HD List (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11732143&postcount=9752) to add NBA TV-HD and NHL Network-HD to the D* and E* count.

It appears that NHL Network-HD will be found in both providers standard HD tier. As for NBA TV-HD, it is being rumored that E* will keep it in their standard HD tier for now while D* will probably have it in their HD Sports pack tier. D* is however giving a "free" month preview of NBA TV-HD on channel 601. The first HD game is this Sunday featuring your Cleveland Cavaliers @ Phoenix Suns. Please also note that locally, the game will also be on FSN OH-HD.

Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.

Of course. BTN-HD is available on D* and E*.

at&t U-verse also has BTN, however only in lowly SD.

Yes it is. Both Dish and DirecTV offer the primary game and all alternate games in HD.



Is the The Big Ten Network in HD, If not what's the point.

I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think

Thanks!

I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think

Thanks!

If you saw the Raiders in HD, you wern't in our area.:)

Pittsburgh was in HD and maybe one other game. The next two weeks will be in HD.

The Oakland game was not in HD. So far, Pittsburgh and New England were in HD (I don't remember about any others so far).

This week's game is on Fox and should be in HD.

CBS does not publish their HD schedule far in advance. I expect the following to probably be in HD: Pittsburgh, New York Jets (I know they stink, but it's New York). San Francisco will be on Fox so should be in HD too.

Maybe if the Browns continue to win we'll see more in HD too.


I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think

Thanks!

I know this has probably been asked before so I apoogize, but does anyone happen have a listing of exactly WHICH games are going to be broadcast in HD for the Browns this season? I know the one against hte Raiders was and that's the only one we've seen in HD thus far I think

Thanks!

CBS only announces their HD plans 3 weeks at a time.

see here: http://www.sportsline.com/cbssports/schedules/page/nfl

Anyways, as far as we can tell, this weeks game (Week 9) will be in HD on Fox as well as next week (Week 10) against Pittsburgh on CBS-HD.

Ooops I meant the Patriots not the Raiders sorry.
Thanks so much for your quick replies! Very helpful here as always when I check in! :)

I wouldn't be surprised also if come 2009 TW doesn't move it's analog channels to digital. They've been playing around with that for a while now. The reason I say 2009 is because thats when all OTA goes digital and for those who just have analog now TW would be able to push their weight around. "Hey, you gotta get a digital converter if you drop us. Might as well get ours."

Cable companies, in general are very clever. This is all speculation on my part but I can see it happening.

Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?

With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels. But then they would also have to clean house in the QAM department because they are all on strange channels, like WEW-HD is on 104.2. Either change the QAM numbers so they match the regular channel number or map the channels to regular numbers like over the air digital TV.

But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.

Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?

With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels. But then they would also have to clean house in the QAM department because they are all on strange channels, like WEW-HD is on 104.2. Either change the QAM numbers so they match the regular channel number or map the channels to regular numbers like over the air digital TV.

But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.

Nice post. Couldn't have said it better myself.

First time, long time.

Can anyone recommend a good outdoor OTA antenna? I'm located in Mayfield Heights. My indoor Terk is just not cutting it for channels 3.1 and 19.1. Also, can anyone recommend an antenna installer? Thanks!
I and others on this site have used with success,Cleveland Antenna Service.
Call Jim West at 440-237-6888.
You will be happy. He will send out his son Joel

Analog channels should of been dropped years ago. TW should start picking up the pace now. Why do we need three shopping channels, two church channels and several Time Warner advertising/propaganda channels all on the analog tier?
The two church channels are likely "Must Carry" channels so TWC doesn't have much say there. The shopping channels are there to help keep your cable bill lower.

With HD/digital converter boxes going on sale soon, now would be the perfect time to drop all analog channels and switch to unencrypted QAM for these channels.
I would be very surprised if the cheap tuner boxes included QAM demodulators.

But then again, that would be too much to ask of Time Warner. So instead, we have a cable system set up to benefit every billy bob watching on their 1985 off-brand 19" TV and the HD customers only get a few channels.
You've hit the nail on the head. This is cable's leg up on the competition. You can plug in pretty much every TV/VCR to their line and you're ready to go. This is also where cable will win in 2009 when people decided not to buy converter boxes and drop ~$15 a month on "lifeline" cable.

Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?

Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?

I mentioned a few weeks ago I was having some problems getting Tribune Media (www.zap2it.com) to make changes to add our new TW channels for my S3. I mentioned the issue with Tube Network as well.

Last week end they finally gave me screen data for TBSHD and FBN, but they still haven't removed Tube.

So probably TW has told them it's not removed yet. Therfore your slide...:rolleyes:

While we're sort of on the subject of bad audio, did anyone else have as much trouble watching The Unit tonight as I did? The analog audio sounded horrible - the sound effects and other background noise came through crystal-clear, but the dialog was muffled to the point you couldn't hear it if anything else was going on.

Watched NCIS right before The Unit, and everything on that show sounded fine. Weird.

I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?

I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?

I also noticed this on an OTA HD Tivo recording of the last CSI-Miami episode. It was VERY bad. Same thing, muffled dialogue like the center channel was ramped way down...

The Unit was bad also.
BJBBJB

I noticed the problem on The Unit and last night on Criminal Minds. I was watching from my TWC DVR so I could not check if it was a TWC problem or a feed problem. Did anyone else notice this on OTA or satellite?

No audio problems for "Criminal Minds" last night on OTA from Youngstown (27-1). Maybe it was a Channel 19 problem.

Why should we assume that? Channel 19 is so well run! NOT!!!!

I've put their news on occasionally just to see how their HD & 5.1 is going and it drives me crazy. Whenever they come back from a break, they play this incredibly loud gong sound that is louder than everything else.

It wouldn't surprise me that they might be still having audio issues...

OK guys, you got me curious. I'm two weeks behind watching shows and I still haven't heard a Dolby 5.1 CBS show. I decided to have a brief "look and listen" of all the shows mentioned.

I'm receiving WOIO via TW and for whatever reason I did not hear any problems with the center channel. Which makes me quite happy of course, but if OTA people are receiving a bad signal you would think I should too.

Don't know what else to say. No problem here.

People are forgetting a lot of technical things here---path intermodulation distortion, low power output, phasing problems, multipath, how many 5.1 settings on your receiver? National satellite feed encoders? Cable encoders? Older mux equipment?, New equipment with bugs? Cheating on bandwidth to make more money? First it was HD (100 meg bandwidth) then that wasn't economical so now it's HDV (15-25meg bandwidth) and now AVCHD, cheaper yet. The bean counters are winning.
JJK

People are forgetting a lot of technical things here---path intermodulation distortion, low power output, phasing problems, multipath, how many 5.1 settings on your receiver? National satellite feed encoders? Cable encoders? Older mux equipment?, New equipment with bugs? Cheating on bandwidth to make more money? First it was HD (100 meg bandwidth) then that wasn't economical so now it's HDV (15-25meg bandwidth) and now AVCHD, cheaper yet. The bean counters are winning.
JJK


If someone can translate what this dude just said, I'd be awful appreciative.:)

I also noticed this on an OTA HD Tivo recording of the last CSI-Miami episode. It was VERY bad. Same thing, muffled dialogue like the center channel was ramped way down...

The Unit was bad also.
BJBBJB


The sound on The Unit, Criminal Minds, and Bones was all screwed up. My 8300 runs into my onk 805... I had to bump the center by 7 db just to watch the show. It seems that it is only a few shows, the music and effects just seem to drown out the center speaker. Very Disapointing.

The sound on The Unit, Criminal Minds, and Bones was all screwed up. My 8300 runs into my onk 805... I had to bump the center by 7 db just to watch the show. It seems that it is only a few shows, the music and effects just seem to drown out the center speaker. Very Disapointing.


Bones is on a different network. Everybody was talking about CBS, or rather WOIO.

SA 8300, huh? Well, even I can't complain about how it translated sound. That is when it bothered to record something.:rolleyes:

I've also noticed a lot of sound issues with 19 since their switch to Dolby 5.1. The dialogue being drowned out by the "background" music on many (not all) shows seems to be a common thread. The big difference in audio levels between the program and (locally-inserted) commercials is my (wife's) biggest gripe, however. You have to constantly adjust the volume or get completely blown out of the room during commercial breaks.

It would be nice if someone from the station(s) actually watched/listened with a home theatre system so they could perform their own quality control!

I've also noticed a lot of sound issues with 19 since their switch to Dolby 5.1. The dialogue being drowned out by the "background" music on many (not all) shows seems to be a common thread. The big difference in audio levels between the program and (locally-inserted) commercials is my (wife's) biggest gripe, however. You have to constantly adjust the volume or get completely blown out of the room during commercial breaks.

It would be nice if someone from the station(s) actually watched/listened with a home theatre system so they could perform their own quality control!

Caution: Sarcasam Ahead:)

For years it has been a common practice for many television stations, not just WOIO to blast commercials. Now taking a look at WOIO's policy of "who gives a crap about what the viewer wants" would you expect anything less?

Do you honestly think that sound engineers that work there don't have home theaters? Of course they do.

So if it sounds good on my home system why does it not sound good on yours? I have no idea but the fact that it does means to me anyway that the issue is probably one of the many factors that JJkizak pointed out.

Which still no one has taken the time to explain to me.:D

Someone at WOIO with HDTV and a home theater system? LMMFAO! :) :D

Someone at WOIO with HDTV and a home theater system? LMMFAO! :) :D

Hey dude. Whatcha laughing at. Apparently you didn't read my post about running into one of their remote trucks at a GetGo. The guy I talked to said he had HD and he thought channel 19's picture sucked.:)

He didn't say if he had surround sound. I was bugging him as to when they were going to get it. Apparently he was clueless as they had it next week.

Speaking of the ineffectiveness of TWC, when are they going to drop the PowerPoint slide announcing that the Tube Network is no longer operating and actually put on a channel people can watch in that slot ?

I get my locals OTA and that "Power Point slide" is still being broadcast on "WUAB 43-2".
BTW: seeing how this is coming from the WUAB control room it's probably not a Power Point slide, more likely it's generated by a Chyron.

As the slide says "don't call your cable operator".

Some day the engineering gang at Reserve Square will get around to pulling 43-2 of the air. It should not be a big deal, WEAO/WNEO switches their subchannels on and off all the time.

Speaking of subchannels, I wonder when WBNX will get around to putting something on 55-2. I've scanned them several times and 55-2 keeps showing up but with nothing on.

I get my locals OTA and that "Power Point slide" is still being broadcast on "WUAB 43-2".
BTW: seeing how this is coming from the WUAB control room it's probably not a Power Point slide, more likely it's generated by a Chyron.

As the slide says "don't call your cable operator".



So if that's the case why doesn't TW just pull the darn channel? Seems like a waste of bandwith to me. I know it's not HD but still.....

The fact that Raycom doesn't mind wasting power to display that slide is quite frankly puzzling. Their reputation for "cheap" is well known.

Well folks.... I think we have a new standard in HD College Football coverage. And the honor definitely goes to the Big Ten Network. They even showed the entire pregame festivities including one of the best traditions in college football; "Script Ohio" and dotting of the "I" to the tune of OSU's band playing "Across the Field." I had the Polks blaring! What a sight! PQ is one of the best I've seen for sports coverage. Way better than any other ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX or ESPN broadcast I've ever seen. Kudos to the BTN.

Go Bucks!

So if that's the case why doesn't TW just pull the darn channel? Seems like a waste of bandwith to me. I know it's not HD but still.....

Exactly. The bandwidth being wasted to show Raycom's "PowerPoint Slide" could be used to finally give us WBNX-HD. Get with it, Time Warner, even AT&T's new video service has that channel.

And while we're at WUAB, it would be a good idea for WOIO to drop their weather channel on 19-2 and move it to 43-2. WUAB has no HD programming except for the news. So it would not be as bog of a deal to split the bandwidth of 43. WOIO has CBS Sports and CBS programming, most of which is HD. 19-1 has looked bad since they started that weather channel.

anyone else not getting abc? I have no signal on it whatsoever with 80-90 on the rest.
never mind my tv has 70% signal my vip722 has 0 on abc only for some reason

anyone else not getting abc? I have no signal on it whatsoever with 80-90 on the rest.

5-1 is working ok here. Sorry to hear you're not receiving. I heard today the Michigan vs. Michigan St. game (showing on ABC now) is a high profile game (even more so than Michigan vs. OSU) because most of the players know eachother and many are rivals.

I heard today the Michigan vs. Michigan St. game (showing on ABC now) is a high profile game (even more so than Michigan vs. OSU) because most of the players know eachother and many are rivals.

To keep it on topic, ABC-HD was coming in fine on Armstrong Cable in Medina.

As for the rivaly, both of my parents went to Michigan State, and for them, this was always the big game. It took 25+ years for them to admit that OSU-UM has become a bigger rivalry (both to the schools and the country). But I hear that the new coach for MSU is trying to reinvigorate the in-state hatred between the schools. Too bad the team couldn't hang on at the end, though. That would have helped.

I have a question about the picture quality on WBNX-SD on Time Warner digital cable. It looks like an over compressed digital channel, but I've also noticed some ghosting, especially with white text or logos on a dark background as well as diagonal stripes through the picture.

SD = crap

nuf said.

Well folks.... I think we have a new standard in HD College Football coverage. And the honor definitely goes to the Big Ten Network. They even showed the entire pregame festivities including one of the best traditions in college football; "Script Ohio" and dotting of the "I" to the tune of OSU's band playing "Across the Field." I had the Polks blaring! What a sight! PQ is one of the best I've seen for sports coverage. Way better than any other ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX or ESPN broadcast I've ever seen. Kudos to the BTN.

Go Bucks!

Big Ten HD does a nice job. I watched the OSU game and a couple other HD games on the BTN HD alternates on DirecTV today and they looked great.

Note to self: cancel WOW video service next week since they don't have BTN HD let alone any HD alternates :rolleyes:

Hookbill:
Sorry for the rant, but I would need a PBS special with all the flow charts to explain the present state of HD variables which would help me also.
JJK

Before we give BTN too much credit! I watch the OSU game on E and several times they were late coming back from commercials. One touchdown would have been missed completely except for replays.

Go Bucks

My compliments to WOIO for the much improved PQ on Tailgate 19, the Browns pregame show. 16:9 SD (not stretched) from the bar and from the muni lot ! It still looks a little weird with some visible horizontal scan lines (480i upconvert ? ), but it's way better than what they used to have.

By comparison, WKYC's pregame show from their studio STO desk with Jim Donovan looked quite a bit worse. SD stretchovision.

I have a question about the picture quality on WBNX-SD on Time Warner digital cable. It looks like an over compressed digital channel, but I've also noticed some ghosting, especially with white text or logos on a dark background as well as diagonal stripes through the picture.

You might really be pleased with the hi-def version of CW. We've been watching episodes of "The Reaper" and "Smallville" and the hi-def picture via ota is one of the best of all the hi-def sources I've seen.

Did anyone notice that WOIO showed the end of the Patriots/Colts game Sunday evening while the Browns were in overtime? So how does that happen if the Cleveland market was not suppose to recieve it? Our local WOIO engineer was asleep at the booth since the game was in SD instead of HD, so the proverbial switch was not switched.

Ray