You know everyone is entitled to their opinion and while I agree that CSI and other shows were OK with Dolby PLII, now that they have gone to Dolby 5.1 it is just unbelievably great. And for you to say differently, well, I don't think you quite understand what to do.

There is no way that PLII reproduces the direct sound effects that you get from Dolby 5.1, and all of CBS shows have great Dolby sound. A swoosh from back left speaker to front right speaker. What a rush. Can't get that from PLII, not even close.

In regards to WOIO I have found that I need to lower the back speakers down to -4dbs and it creates a perfect sound. Sometimes I have to raise the center speaker up 2db's. I have to make changes everytime I change a station to "correct" for different sound. Usually I raise the back speakers real high for WKYC, but not all shows. Some I can just leave it at 0.

Perhaps I have to make my adjustments because my back speakers are wireless and maybe some folks don't need to make adjustments.

BTW, I thought my explanations of the differences in PL settings was pretty clear. I don't see why a follow up was even needed.

Easy there, Hook. Please assume that every non-factual statement I make is preceded by IMHO, with an emphasis on the "H". Different people with different systems will have different opinions. I'm trying to be helpful, not make others feel bad. Sorry if I offended you.

Regarding CBS 2.0 vs. 5.1, please read my post again. I wasn't talking about PLII (which I acknowledged as inferior to 5.1), I was talking about PLIIx. Night and day difference IMHO. Swoosh, surround, seven speakers, I got all of it. I've calibrated my system with an SPL meter - maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn't.

BTW, I started creating my reply before yours showed up (I edit in Notepad), and then when I went to post, I considered either adding a note acknowledging your post, or editing mine, and incorrectly assumed that since my info was additive, there would be no ruffled feathers. Again, my apologies.

Regarding CBS 2.0 vs. 5.1, please read my post again. I wasn't talking about PLII (which I acknowledged as inferior to 5.1), I was talking about PLIIx. Night and day difference IMHO. Swoosh, surround, seven speakers, I got all of it. I've calibrated my system with an SPL meter - maybe that makes a difference, maybe it doesn't.

BTW, I started creating my reply before yours showed up (I edit in Notepad), and then when I went to post, I considered either adding a note acknowledging your post, or editing mine, and incorrectly assumed that since my info was additive, there would be no ruffled feathers. Again, my apologies.

Had I of realized you were talking about 7 speakers, absolutely I would agree. The idea is that PLIIx is suppose to take Dolby 5.1 and make it into a "simulated" 7.1 experience. I would assume that it wouldn't take anything away from the actual 5.1.

As far as my feelings go, usually I don't complain when someone gives another explantion after I've already done so. But I actually went through the trouble of finding my manual to give a good explanation.:) So I admit, I got a little ruffled. However, I get over these things fairly easily so let me apologize as well for my reaction.:o

Well, ruffled feathers or not, thank you both hookbill and ajstan99 for your well thought out responses. I've learned more about Dolby DD & PL from your two posts than I learned in the past 5 years!

To sum up for us technologically impaired:
PL = 2 ch into 4.1
PLII = 2 ch into 5.1
PLIIx = 7.1

Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?

It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.

Using OTA or QAM in PL, sometimes the PCM is there, sometimes it is not.


*rubs eyes*

Well, ruffled feathers or not, thank you both hookbill and ajstan99 for your well thought out responses. I've learned more about Dolby DD & PL from your two posts than I learned in the past 5 years!

To sum up for us technologically impaired:
PL = 2 ch into 4.1
PLII = 2 ch into 5.1
PLIIx = 7.1

Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?

It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.

Using OTA or QAM in PL, sometimes the PCM is there, sometimes it is not.


*rubs eyes*

On my DVD players I always have to go to the "sound" menu and select Dolby 5.1 or DTS. I prefer DTS, YMMV. Lot's of controversy on that.

Using the selection you describe is simulated dolby out of a stereo signal (PCM). When you see PCM while watching tv you are probably seeing an analog broadcast. A digital broadcast usually says Dolby 2.0, however there isn't much difference really in those two signals IMHO.

Now that I (think) I get this, when I select a DSP for watching a DVD movie (std. DVD, not HD) I've always selected the first DSP under the movie menu that pops up which is PLIIx Movie Standard. As I am playing this on a 5.1 setup, what is the PLIIx doing with the extra two signals that are absent from my system?

It has been my selection of this PLIIx DSP for DVD's that has caused my original confusion into my thinking it was using PLIIx on QAM & OTA digital broadcasts. The tiny "IIx" icon is right above the tiny "PCM" icon. With my apparent worsening eyesight, from a distance, these two blur into looking like the same icon.
Out of curiosity, I downloaded the RX-V2700 manual. See page 86. Have you disabled the Surround Back speakers? If you have, then PLIIx should not be available.

Per the manual:

* “PLIIx Movie” is available only when “Surround Back” (see page 106) is set to “Small x2” or “Large x2”.

* The Pro Logic IIx decoder is not available when “Surround Back” is set to “None” (see page 106).

BTW, verrrrry nice receiver.:D

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the RX-V2700 manual. See page 86. Have you disabled the Surround Back speakers? If you have, then PLIIx should not be available.

Per the manual:

* “PLIIx Movie” is available only when “Surround Back” (see page 106) is set to “Small x2” or “Large x2”.

* The Pro Logic IIx decoder is not available when “Surround Back” is set to “None” (see page 106).

BTW, verrrrry nice receiver.:D

Yup, sure enough, I had Surround Backs activated within the OSM. Now that I have selected "none" the "x" has gone away. It now properly displays PLII with no "x".

Thanks, it is a nice AVR. It is not without it's issues though. Luckily the major issues (overheating, HDMI, 1080p pass-through) that have been reported have not affected me at all. I don't even have any 1080p content or source to even test this potential problem.

This AVR has transformed and broadened my music listening with it's USB and Networking functionality. All of my CD's are on a single, standalone hard drive as uncompressed WAV's via USB. I haven't turned on my CD player, literally, in over 6 months. The Networking has turned me on to high bitrate Internet Radio. Both USB & Networking features are direct into the AVR, no computer needed. The simple convenience of these two features have probably quadrupled my time listening to music.

Hey, is TW cable here in NE OH using HRC or IRC ??

Jim, I assume you are using the regular SA 8300. I've heard this 8300HDC is very buggy.

Interesting that you mention that adding an eSATA drive has the problem occuring rarely. When I added the eSATA on mine I didn't notice any difference in sound drop offs but what I did notice was that with the eSATA attached it made it more prone to do partial recordings.

Mine is the SA8300HD. I wasn't aware that there was more than one version (unless you meant HD vs SD?).

I've never seen it make a partial recording. In fact, other than the audio dropout problem, the 8300 has been quite reliable for me.

The issue seems to be with playback, not recording, as getting a reset signal sent from WOW seems to temporarily fix the problem and give me time to watch at least one recording without dropouts. If I switch to a different recording or a live channel, the dropouts return. SD recordings are always fine. A tech is coming next week to swap it out.
Interesting. In my experience, the dropouts are always at exactly the same points in the playback. So I assume that it IS a recording problem rather than a playback problem. If I play the same program twice, the same exact dropouts occur at the same exact points in the program.

And it only affects certain recordings, though there seems to be no particular pattern as to which ones it occurs on. I don't think I've ever recorded an SD program, so I can't comment on that. But that does tend to support my hypotheses that this problem is due to a slow data rate from the internal drive. SD would have a much lower data requirement.

It might be worthwhile to do some additional analysis. I wonder if it happens only on 1080i, or only on 720p, or only on DD5.1, or some other factor?

Mine is the SA8300HD. I wasn't aware that there was more than one version (unless you meant HD vs SD?).

I've never seen it make a partial recording. In fact, other than the audio dropout problem, the 8300 has been quite reliable for me.

The SA 8300HDC is a "newer" version of the the same model. The difference is that it has cable cards in it.

Cable companies, after using up their existing DVR's had to make these available I believe as of June 2007.

I also understand that it runs a software called "Navigator" and that seems to be the buggy part of it.

Interesting. In my experience, the dropouts are always at exactly the same points in the playback. So I assume that it IS a recording problem rather than a playback problem. If I play the same program twice, the same exact dropouts occur at the same exact points in the program.

And it only affects certain recordings, though there seems to be no particular pattern as to which ones it occurs on. I don't think I've ever recorded an SD program, so I can't comment on that. But that does tend to support my hypotheses that this problem is due to a slow data rate from the internal drive. SD would have a much lower data requirement.

It might be worthwhile to do some additional analysis. I wonder if it happens only on 1080i, or only on 720p, or only on DD5.1, or some other factor?

I think that the SA 8300HDC is the updated version of the the 8300HD, but with cable card capabilities. (Sorry Hook, couldn't resist! :D)

Now that you bring it up, all my HD recordings were on 720P/5.1DD channels (Starz, Fox, ABC). I'll have to try CBS or NBC, although I did use the pause feature on ER this Thursday and had no skips at all on the playback.

** Correction - Starz is 1080i, not 720p as noted in the preceding paragraph **

Just like you, if I play the same program twice, the same dropouts occur at the same points in the program, however, sometimes that program will play flawlessly. Maybe it's a disk fragmentation issue? Do you know if there is a way to reformat or defrag the HD?

Just last night I watched a recorded Starz movie that was skipping so bad I turned it off, went to WOIO for 10 minutes or so, then came back to the movie, which skipped much less frequently for about a minute, then played correctly from that point forward. After the movie was over, I went back to the beginning and this time it played without a single dropout.

I think that the SA 8300HDC is the updated version of the the 8300HD, but with cable card capabilities. (Sorry Hook, couldn't resist! :D)

Now that you bring it up, all my HD recordings were on 720P/5.1DD channels (Starz, Fox, ABC). I'll have to try CBS or NBC, although I did use the pause feature on ER this Thursday and had no skips at all on the playback.

Just like you, if I play the same program twice, the same dropouts occur at the same points in the program, however, sometimes that program will play flawlessly. Maybe it's a disk fragmentation issue? Do you know if there is a way to reformat or defrag the HD?



Hmmmmm....should I actually try and help this dude?:p

For all you ever wanted to know about the SA 8300 SARA, including defrag info you can go here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859).

Don't tell them I sent you. I frequently go over there and laugh at them.:D

Thanks, Hook. Looks like I may have to add another subscribed thread.

Hey, is TW cable here in NE OH using HRC or IRC ??

IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.

IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.

I've just gotta ask - what do aeronautical frequencies have to do with a cable TV system ?

IRC/Standard settings will work. IRC includes the +12/+25khz offsets required for aeronautical frequencies.

Well, I didn't understand the original question in the first place. But after you answer Paule123's question explain to me if you actually answered Smarty-Pants question. He asked whatTW NEO used, not what would work.

Then someone explain what all this mumble jumble is.:confused:

I've just gotta ask - what do aeronautical frequencies have to do with a cable TV system ?

Signal leakage. Because the cable industry uses some frequencies that fall in the aeronautical bands, there's a potential for interference with radionavigation if there's a strong leak, especially near an airport. This has happened around the country on several occasions.

Because of the potential impact of interference, the FCC passed a rule that requires cable operators to use frequency offsets of +12 khz or +25khz on those frequencies to reduce the potential impact of a signal leak.

This law went into effect in the early 90s.

The SA 8300HDC is a "newer" version of the the same model. The difference is that it has cable cards in it.

I also understand that it runs a software called "Navigator" and that seems to be the buggy part of it.
OK, I checked mine and it does indeed say 8300HDC. However, mine runs SARA, not Navigator.

I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:

"for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."

I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me..

I live in Poland (Youngstown) and was wondering if any Cav's games were aired OTA. If so, what channel and are they aired in HD?

THanks!

I was wondering if someone could answer a question for me..

I live in Poland (Youngstown) and was wondering if any Cav's games were aired OTA. If so, what channel and are they aired in HD?

THanks!

Very few OTA games. WUAB has a few, but I do not beleive they are in HD. The games on ABC would be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/

Well, wouldn't you know it, virtually no problems with the 8300HDC on Sunday and two recordings I made last night worked perfectly this morning just in time for the WOW tech to show up.

I did notice that the HDD was running this morning, although the unit had been off since 2am when the last recording finished. Tech said that the box updates itself overnight and is likely running self-diagnostics/repairs. He also said that he had an 8300HDC that started out with problems like mine, and seemed to fix itself after a week or so, and I should just make sure to leave it off at night and allow these updates/fixes to run.

He offered a new box if I wanted one, but decided that it made no sense to start from scratch as the unit I have was also brand new and now seems to be working.

Following the link that Hook provided, I was able to find a post by DoubleDAZ about accessing the diagnostics menu (and a whole bunch of other info he keeps updated):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4682052#post4682052

To access the diagnostics menu, with the unit turned on, press and hold "Select" on front panel until the Mail light flashes, then press the "Info" button. Once in the Diagnostics menu, use the Vol+/- keys to flip through the pages.

As it turns out, the OS for my 8300HDC is SARA v 1.90.5.a103

Page 18 of the menu shows that there are no corrupt files, cross-links, or lost clusters on the DVR. If I'm getting skips again, I'll check this page to see if there are any problems noted.

Finally, I corrected my post below that erroneously stated that Starz HD was 720p. It's actually 1080i, which means that the playback skips occurred on both 720p and 1080i recordings.

Well, wouldn't you know it, virtually no problems with the 8300HDC on Sunday and two recordings I made last night worked perfectly this morning just in time for the WOW tech to show up.

I did notice that the HDD was running this morning, although the unit had been off since 2am when the last recording finished. Tech said that the box updates itself overnight and is likely running self-diagnostics/repairs. He also said that he had an 8300HDC that started out with problems like mine, and seemed to fix itself after a week or so, and I should just make sure to leave it off at night and allow these updates/fixes to run.


Just a little advice. Don't get your hopes up too high.

The SA 8300 is what it is. And unfortunately SARA is horrible software. I can't tell you how many times I thought something was "fixed" only to have the problem reoccure time and time again. I probably did everything they have on that SA 8300 page including defrag, reformat etc. Sometimes it seemed to work ok and just as I got comfortable, missed recordings, partial recordings. And I wasn't even aware that the sound drop outs and macro blocking wasn't just part of HD.

Also I have to mention that I went through 3 of them. They all behaved the same.

The fun part of your post was what I bolded. Believe me there is no way that the SA 8300 is intelligent enough to "fix itself." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Indiana we need to discuss.;)

As I have stated before, many people even within this area will say they don't have problems with their SA 8300. So I truly wish you the best of luck. I sure didn't have any.

Just a little advice. Don't get your hopes up too high.

The fun part of your post was what I bolded. Believe me there is no way that the SA 8300 is intelligent enough to "fix itself." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Indiana we need to discuss.;)
I definitely took your previous posts regarding the 8300 into consideration, but trying it out for only an extra five bucks a month seems worth it. You actually lowered my expectations and, in a backhanded way, set me up to have a better initial perceived experience with the 8300HDC.:eek:

In any case, this is my first foray into the world of DVR, and will let me be more informed of my likes/dislikes if I ever decide to purchase one on my own.

I know that you were just having a little fun with your second comment, but pushing software updates is common practice, and it's not that big of a deal to have disk utilities set to automatically run after a specified period of activity, including defrag and recovery/remapping around bad clusters on a disk.

This could support (although not entirely prove) the hypothesis that the skips are a disk read issue, and can be self-correcting. Moving 5-10GB files on a half-full 160GB HDD is a time-intensive task, and could likely take several evenings to resolve.

Or...it could all be false hope, the 8300HDC and its software are terrible, and I'll soon be posting about the dropouts returning.

Very few OTA games. WUAB has a few, but I do not beleive they are in HD. The games on ABC would be HD.

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/schedule/Additionally every game aired on WUAB is also on FSN Ohio, so the WUAB OTA broadcasts are all simulcasts of the FSN Ohio feed.

There are no exclusive games on WUAB. ABC OTOH are exclusive.

I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:

"for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."

can you link me to that thread I would love to read up on that

I saw the following message (from someone in North Carolina) on another thread, and I wondered if anyone here in Northeast Ohio has gotten word from TWC about an upcoming change like this:

"for the past year or more we have been in a transition from adelphia to TWC. i just received a package in the mail outlining all the changes with the new TWC system that is becoming active on Dec.5th. it says they are adding "more than 100 additional channels" best i can tell looking at the channel line up we're getting about 12 more HD channels. also says there will be a new digital guide software that will be pushed through on the 5th."

Somehow I missed this post.

Anyway there is no way to tell for sure if their situation is even remotely like ours. Remember that not only did TW get Adelphia, they also acquired Comcast. To complicate matters even worst the way Adelphia was operated was like several small companies, which in fact is what it still was since they acquired it from the original companies.

So in order for their situation to be like ours they would have to have the same Adelphia conditions (doubtfull) and the acquistion of Comcast in their area (maybe).

You actually lowered my expectations and, in a backhanded way, set me up to have a better initial perceived experience with the 8300HDC.:eek:


How in the heck could I have done that? I wouldn't be surprised if GWB new how I felt about the SA 8300, that's how badly I speak about my own personal experience.

I do however always make sure that I either say YMMV or "many others have not shared my experience."

I should also add that many have.:D

Does anyone notice on TW (Amherst area - old Comcast network), the poor HD signal on TNTHD lately? Watching some basketball games the other night was terrible and watching the Closer tonight is not great either. Seems like macroblocking/pixelation.

Also, where are our new HD channels, sure wish some more would come soon.

I wonder how much the BJ was paid for this:

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/12029361.html

I live within the city limits of Canton. Any thoughts out there on the best outdoor antenna to use to get OTA HD signals from the Cleveland and Youngstown stations ? I've heard the DA-5200 from Radio Shack and the Wingard Sensor GS 2200 are good. Any other suggestions ? Also, can anyone recommend a good antenna installer in the Canton area ?

According to Ohio Media Watch WJW it appears WJW has been sold to Oak Hill Capital Partners, LLC. The article says they will probably still be a FOX affiliate.

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/

anyone with navagaitor, can you tell me if you can change resoloutions yet if you have hdmi? I had it for a while and its sad but you had to watch everything at the native resoloution....and also sorry I havent kept up, is everything now being digitally simulcast?

anyone with navagaitor, can you tell me if you can change resoloutions yet if you have hdmi? I had it for a while and its said but you had to watch everything at the native resoloution....and also sorry I havent kept up, is everything now being digitally simulcast?

Try posting about this here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087&&#post8434087). Just a hint and I'm not trying to be unkind but the wording of your post is a bit confusing. When you post look over what you wrote so people can understand your question clearly.

Who said you have to watch everything in "native" the installer? If that's the case he's probably wrong. Did you look in settings to see if you have "passthrough" or HDMI in your settings?

You may have to do a set up but I'm not sure how it's done with this software. With SARA you turned the 8300 off and pushed guide and info at the same time then a set up wizard appeared. You then would choose advanced and set up whatever you would like, most likely 1080i, 720p, and 480i. When you do that you would see "HDMI" somewhere in the settings but I don't recall where.

The only thing in my area that is digital and analog are the locals.

Try posting about this here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8434087&&#post8434087). Just a hint and I'm not trying to be unkind but the wording of your post is a bit confusing. When you post look over what you wrote so people can understand your question clearly.

Who said you have to watch everything in "native" the installer? If that's the case he's probably wrong. Did you look in settings to see if you have "passthrough" or HDMI in your settings?

You may have to do a set up but I'm not sure how it's done with this software. With SARA you turned the 8300 off and pushed guide and info at the same time then a set up wizard appeared. You then would choose advanced and set up whatever you would like, most likely 1080i, 720p, and 480i. When you do that you would see "HDMI" somewhere in the settings but I don't recall where.

The only thing in my area that is digital and analog are the locals.

its fine, you might not understand that is all. When you watch something with the navagaitor software, you cant choose what resoloution you want to watch it at. You have to watch it at the native (like sd channels equals 480i, espnhd is 720p) instead of choosing one resoloution and letting the box upconvert downconvert, or display native resoloution. When I had time warner (I have dish network now) this was the case, and I was wondering how fast the updates to navagaitor are rolling out, or if this is even going to be a feature as HDCP might play a hand in letting everything go native with HDMI. Also I was asking if all the channels had a digital simulcast yet, while I dont have time warner, I still like to check up just in case I need to come back :) Thanks hookbill for that link I will browse through that.

Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.

Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.

Is FOX in HD around here?

Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.

Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.

Is FOX in HD around here?

Yes, FOX is in HD(and very excellent). All four of our local newscasts are in HD and all six of the major network affiliates are in HD with 5.1 surround. You are actually better off without cable. Teh cable selection here sucks. I don't know that much about antennas(help would be appreciated) but with the right antenna, you should be able to get most of the channels. WKYC-NBC is harder to get because it is on digital channel 2. WOIO has also been a problem since it is on channel 10. And WVIZ is operating on LOW power.

I am also in Akron and VERY unhappy with cable. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes with your antenna. With all my cable box problems, I'm THIS close to dumping Time Warner.

I am also in Akron and VERY unhappy with cable. I'd be interested in hearing how it goes with your antenna. With all my cable box problems, I'm THIS close to dumping Time Warner.

I was a short breath away from dumping TWC due to problems with my 8300HDC, but decided to give the Tivo HD a shot. I've had it for a little over a month, and have been very happy with the results. It seems to be far less picky about signal quality, isn't as stupid as the 8300 (Navigator software), and hasn't missed or screwed up any recordings yet. (We have a LOT of shows scheduled every week...)

To be fair, I have an SD SA8300 (Passport software) that doesn't have any problems - I would often have to fall back to watch recordings on it when the 8300HDC goofed up. As far as HD, the 8300 series is pretty horrible. I went through two 8300HD boxes and the 8300HDC within five months, and all of them should have been used for target practice.


Side note: still have the 8300HDC, and in the past 24 hours, it's rebooted three times - gets stuck with "OCAP" on the display. Turn it on, and wait for a few minutes while it's "Searching for signal. This should only take a few minutes." When it finally comes up, there are no DVR functions, no program guide, and the channels are all screwed up - SciFi is on 56 instead of 62, Fox is on 8 instead of 9, WQHS is on 6 instead of 7 (not that I watch it), etc. Power-cycle it, and it comes back up correctly, but reboots again a few hours later...

I'm wondering if TWC is trying to push out new software....

Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.

Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job?


I've had the best luck with a 4 bowtie panel antenna for Cleveland...
get by with a 2 bowtie panel for Youngstown... both with UHF preamps...
tried a yagi with corner reflector with no luck...

at a basement efficency in North Canton, antenna is maybe 2 feet above
ground shooting thru a brick wall... judging from the analog reception
I wouldn't think digital would work... but the Cleveland's decode reliably...
receiver is an old Accurian... at both locations where I've used an
inside antenna for DTV I've found that position is very critical...
pretty much have to walk the antenna around looking for an optimum spot...
and that optimum point seems to change a little seasonally...

Ed...

I was a short breath away from dumping TWC due to problems with my 8300HDC, but decided to give the Tivo HD a shot. I've had it for a little over a month, and have been very happy with the results. It seems to be far less picky about signal quality, isn't as stupid as the 8300 (Navigator software), and hasn't missed or screwed up any recordings yet. (We have a LOT of shows scheduled every week...)

To be fair, I have an SD SA8300 (Passport software) that doesn't have any problems - I would often have to fall back to watch recordings on it when the 8300HDC goofed up. As far as HD, the 8300 series is pretty horrible. I went through two 8300HD boxes and the 8300HDC within five months, and all of them should have been used for target practice.



From my understanding Passport was the best software that TW had. The switch to Navigator probably has to do with the fact that they now have to issue out DVR's with cable cards if they are out of the ones that didn't require them.

I had high hopes for SA when they were bought by Cisco (sp?) but they haven't really done much so far. Everywhere I read this Navigator is buggy.

mnowlin is right about the TiVo HD. If you don't want to spend a lot of money but you want a reliable DVR that will give you good quality recordings it is the way to go. I have to mention that right now TiVo is offering lifetime subscription service and while this is expensive, in the long run it saves a ton of money.

I'm not a programmer, developer, or anything like that but I can tell quality from crap. It kind of reminds me of my first new car, the Hyndai Excel. What a pos. I'm not an auto mechanic either but when you drive it you find out.

I will also give a thumbs up to D* as an alternative to cable. I don't know much about there DVR but from what I read it's pretty reliable. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that the TiVo HD has but you do get a heck of a lot more HD channels.

Personally if the S3 hadn't have been developed I probably would be writing in an assylum as my wife won't let me cut down the trees.

Then again I'm sure quite a few of you feel I belong there anyway.:p

I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks. Is FOX in HD around here?
You might consider the "Lifeline" service. TW doesn't like to point out its existence, but for $12.95/mo you can get channels 2..20 (from their analog lineup), and it includes 3,5,8,19,&43 (and a few pointless ones) in unencrypted QAM. (Fox is channel 8.) If you're using a computer as your TV, you can get a QAM capable HD tuner for under $100.

When I lived near UA 25 years ago, antenna reception pretty much stunk. I doubt you'll be able to get good reception without a roof antenna unless you live on a hill.

It appears the trend of the Cleveland Browns being available in glorious HD will continue. As a matter of fact, the Browns have been available in HD 9 of their 14 games so far this season, with a current streak of 7 games and counting!

1. *HD- Sunday, September 9 vs PITTSBURGH STEELERS CBS 1:00 PM L 34-7
2. *SD- Sunday, September 16 vs CINCINNATI BENGALS CBS 1:00 PM W 45-51
3. *SD- Sunday, September 23 @ Oakland Raiders CBS 4:05 PM L 24-26
4. *SD- Sunday, September 30 vs BALTIMORE RAVENS CBS 1:00 PM W 13-27
5. *HD- Sunday, October 7 @ New England Patriots CBS 1:00 PM L 17-34
6. BYE
7. *SD- Sunday, October 14 vs MIAMI DOLPHINS CBS 1:00 PM W 31-41
8. *SD- Sunday, October 28 @ St. Louis Rams CBS 1:00 PM W 27-20
9. *HD- Sunday, November 4 vs SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOX 4:05 PM W 30-33
10. *HD- Sunday, November 11 @ Pittsburgh Steelers 1:00 PM L 28-31
11. *HD- Sunday, November 18 @ Baltimore Ravens 1:00 PM W 33-30
12. *HD- Sunday, November 25 vs HOUSTON TEXANS 1:00 PM W 17-27
13. *HD- Sunday, December 2 @ Arizona Cardinals 4:05 PM L 21-27
14. *HD- Sunday, December 9 @ New York Jets 4:15 PM
15. *HD- Sunday, December 16 vs BUFFALO BILLS 1:00 PM
16. Sunday, December 23 @ Cincinnati Bengals 1:00 PM
17. Sunday, December 30 vs SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS 1:00 PM

December 30th will lilkely be in HD because it will be on Fox.

IMO, Passport is THE BEST DVR software on the market.

nickdawg, I will acknowledge that passport appears to be better then SARA but to say it's the best in the market is so wrong I don't know where to begin.

I'd take TiVo or D*'s anyday first.

Howdy everyone. I'm a student and I live near the university (Akron) in an apartment. I bought a $40 Phillips antenna and realized that getting PBS and some religious channel, well, that's not going to do it.

Can anyone recommend an indoor antenna that should do a better job? Outdoor may be tricky, as I rent. I've got an HD-DVD player, but I don't care to buy too many movies at those prices, and I got rid of cable. I could survive pretty well if I could just get some of the networks.

Is FOX in HD around here?From Akron an indoor antenna will have a tough time picking up the Cleveland stations. PBS & TBN are the only digital stations with transmitters in Akron. There is an analog-only ION ch 23.

All the rest come from Parma, a good 25 miles to the north. An indoor antenna may work, but only if you aim it out a north-facing window. Buildings play havoc with radio waves, especially in the UHF band. I live right by the transmitters in Parma and without a window my indoor antenna gets nothing useful for digital.

If you want CBS or NBC those are on VHF. You'll need a large antenna to get WKYC/NBC - it takes an 8' element to tune in rf ch 2 which is their current digital channel. Once the analog TBN vacates ch 17 WKYC will move to 17.

WOIO/CBS is another thing all together. They have a very low power signal on rf ch 10 (they have to protect an analog ch 10 from London, Ontario). While you can get away with a smaller element for ch 10, the weaker signal will make getting that one a challenge. You might have better luck getting your CBS from Youngstown: WKBN is digital on rf ch 41 with a FOX subchannel! It's one of the most powerful digital TV signals in northeast Ohio. It's signal reaches from Cleveland to Pittsburgh! I get it 24/7 with an outdoor antenna aimed to the east. There is also an NBC from Youngstown: WFMJ is digital on rf ch 20 and has a CW subchannel. It's not as powerful as WKBN but you may have a better chance of pulling it in in Akron than I do here in Parma.

I hope this helps. Let us know how it's going.

Last night I flipped on the Cavs game in HD on FSNOH D* channel 637-1 and noticed the picture looked really bad with heavy interlacing lines. Then I saw the HR20 was indicating 1080i. I pushed the "res" button to 720p and the picture came back to normal looking 720p. Anybody else notice this?

My HR20 is set to auto-res so something in D*'s system must have flagged it as the wrong format?

FYI, I'm in the old adelphia east cleveland area using QAM. TWC once again changed a digital channel on me. I was getting WKYC-HD on 2 of my channels, and no Fox. A simple delete and rescan found the channels correctly. If someone needs the numbers I can look it up when I get home. No other (good) channels were added. I did see quite a few shopping channels in digital 480i though.

FYI, I'm in the old adelphia east cleveland area using QAM. TWC once again changed a digital channel on me. I was getting WKYC-HD on 2 of my channels, and no Fox. A simple delete and rescan found the channels correctly. If someone needs the numbers I can look it up when I get home. No other (good) channels were added. I did see quite a few shopping channels in digital 480i though.

I setup a new LCD for my mother-in-law the other day. She is on the old Aldelphia system on the west side (Avon). Doing a QAM scan brought in all of the locals as I expected, but interstingly, channels 3,5 and 8 were mapped with the correct PSIP information. They came up on her channel list as 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1 (Channel 19 was off on a funky QAM channel). I didn't realize that TWC was providing or passing along this information so that the channels could be mapped intelligently. A very pleasing discovery for me. Have any of you in other TWC areas seen this or is this new information?

I setup a new LCD for my mother-in-law the other day. She is on the old Aldelphia system on the west side (Avon). Doing a QAM scan brought in all of the locals as I expected, but interstingly, channels 3,5 and 8 were mapped with the correct PSIP information. They came up on her channel list as 3.1, 5.1, and 8.1 (Channel 19 was off on a funky QAM channel). I didn't realize that TWC was providing or passing along this information so that the channels could be mapped intelligently. A very pleasing discovery for me. Have any of you in other TWC areas seen this or is this new information?

Never heard of anyone actully doing it the RIGHT way. Congradulations, you found a blip on the radar. :)

Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.

An I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.

Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.

An I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.


I don't know diddly about qam but I do know that TW's music channels are not encoded. The rest of TW's digital channels are. That's probably why you don't get them.

When I first got my S3 hooked up it basically worked like qam because I didn't have cable cards to see the encoded digital. I did get the music channels and one or two other digital channels. Plus local HD channels and a couple of others.

I couldn't get FOX however. I'm in Bainbridge.

Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.

An I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.

If they were broken up, then more than likely you have a weak signal. There are many potential causes for this. I'm no expert in the matter, but it could be caused by the splitter that you used, or too many splits. I myself experienced something similar a ways back and it turned out to be unterminated taps on a splitter. Once I capped off the open ports, the signal cleaned up and all was good.

Quick question for you guys. I have a Sony Bravia V2500, and I am trying to find the QAM channels. I have TWC for internet (actually, it is still active for digital cable as well before I cancel it), and I split that cable and have a run going into the antenna port of my TV. In the settings, I switch cable to "on", then do a scan for digital channels. All I found was one shopping channel and some of the music channels TWC offers but was veyr broken up.

An I doing something wrong?

Thanks!

P.S. I'm in the eastern suburbs.

Well assuming they are the same channels as mine, I can check for you when I get home tonight. If they were re-mapped to virtual channels by your TV, then try typing in channel "3.1". That should be WKYC. If they were not remapped and they are on their physical channels, I'll have to look when I get home. If you don't know how to change to a digital channel on your tv, read the manual. You should get all the locals in HD, and maybe even Discovery HD, TNT HD and a Bonus HD channel (local sports sometimes).

Hope this helps. Let us know.

I got a Terk HDTVa, and I've added WEWS, WJWDT, WUAB, and WBNX. I get Univision (I think, it's Spanish anyway), but that one is a bit hit or miss.

I'm getting CBS and NBC in analog, but can't get them in HD. Still, quite the improveement. ABC and Fox were two that I really wanted.

I don't know diddly about qam but I do know that TW's music channels are not encoded. The rest of TW's digital channels are. That's probably why you don't get them.

When I first got my S3 hooked up it basically worked like qam because I didn't have cable cards to see the encoded digital. I did get the music channels and one or two other digital channels. Plus local HD channels and a couple of others.

I couldn't get FOX however. I'm in Bainbridge.

Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?

im very confused. sorry.

i cant get ANY hd channels. and ive moved the antennae every where in my room, including pointing out the window...

this sucks.

(TH42PZ700U)

You're not missing much by not having NBC. About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock. The rest of NBC's programming is either SD reality shows or crappy drama series. As for CBS, I would go for the Youngstown CBS WKBN-DT. If you've been in NE Ohio for a while, you can see that the Cleveland CBS station is GARBAGE. I've considered getting a stronger antenna many times because of what WOIO does. The signal is hard to get, and once you get it, you're stuck with their crap news and programming. It's not uncommon for WOIO or WUAB to interrupt prime time network programming to air Paid Programs. WKBN is definately a better quality station than WOIO.

NBC's THE OFFICE is one of my favorite shows on television, wether you like it or not :D:p.

Is it normal for the signal to change daily on all stations? Sometimes Fox will come in around 75 then the next day its at 65. Generally all my stations are between 68-71 but sometimes they drop out altogether. I have a Phillips HD antenna mounted on the chimney and I live in parma. I spent countless hours adjusting the thing with my girlfriend by the tv. The thing is I had everything over 70 and they next day it changes..uhhhhhhhhhhgggggg. Damn Dish Network no HD locals:(. Signal seems to be worse the colder it gets??

About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock.
Geez, you couldn't bribe me to watch any of those shows. The only thing I watch on NBC is Heroes, and I never miss that one! But, to each his own, right? :)

You're not missing much by not having NBC. About the only good shows are SVU, Earl and 30Rock. The rest of NBC's programming is either SD reality shows or crappy drama series.

Uh, did you forget about Sunday Night Football in HD? What about Friday Night Lights, The Office, Saturday Night Live, Chuck, Las Vegas, The Tonight Show, Conan, Holiday Specials and HD Movies they air periodically?

Btw, Friday Night Lights is my favorite show on local programming right now. For those of you who've never seen it, shame! :cool:

Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?

im very confused. sorry.

i cant get ANY hd channels. and ive moved the antennae every where in my room, including pointing out the window...

this sucks.

(TH42PZ700U)

If your D* stb isn't HD, then I don't think that it will be capable of processing the OTA signals. I'm relatively sure, none of them do a "pass through".

Food for thought: If you have an HD display and standard definition service from D*; have you considered upgrading the D* service to HD. It would cost $100-$200 bucks probably for them to come out, install the new dish, run additional wires, and give you an HR20 (HD PVR). Additional cost per month is something like $10. You can go to their web site and refine the costs; or better yet, call them and discuss the options.

You can frequently get a better price by calling customer retention. Tell them you are going HD and realize it would be cheaper to do it via cable. Ask the customer retention rep for the best deal they can give you.

Im in Auburn, using an indoor antennae. i have DirecTV but dont have HD. am running it through the dtv box, and into the TV... do i have to set up the box to allow the pass through, or what do you have to do exactly?
If you don't have a D* (that's short for DirecTV) HD box, you won't get HD from it obviously & it won't pass through an HD signal. Presuming you have an HDTV with an OTA tuner built in you'd want to hook the antenna up directly to that coax input and see if you get anything.

In Auburn I wouldn't expect good results with an indoor. I played around briefly with an amplified indoor in Bainbridge & had very spotty HD results, although I did pull something watchable on some channels. With an amplified outdoor I am able to pull in everything although I have D* HD locals and tend to just watch those now rather than the OTA signals.

Anyway - try hooking your antenna directly to your TV and see if that helps. I'd also suggest considering upgrading your D* service to HD. They've rolled out a ton of new HD channels recently, have the big 4 locals available in HD so you don't require an OTA unless you want 43/55 or PBS in HD, and their HR20 DVR has gotten fairly good of late. If you watch a lot of TV, it's worth paying for, but it's not free...

Uh, did you forget about Sunday Night Football in HD? What about Friday Night Lights, The Office, Saturday Night Live, Chuck, Las Vegas, The Tonight Show, Conan, Holiday Specials and HD Movies they air periodically?

Btw, Friday Night Lights is my favorite show on local programming right now. For those of you who've never seen it, shame! :cool:

I have to add a couple of others. Chuck, Bionic Woman, Journeyman and Law & Order SVU (it's still got it).

My favorite new show of the season is Bionic Woman. Michelle Ryan is smoking hot and she does a great American accent. I didn't realize she was British until I saw an episode where she was "faking" a British accent. I thought it sounded too good. Turns out she is British. Lot's of action, could improve on the 5.1 sound the episode I watched last night was lacking but then again that happens on a great deal of NBC shows. And did I mention Michelle Ryan?;)

Hugh Laurey also does a great American accent (House).

Oh Las Vegas. Nice eye candy.:)

Food for thought: If you have an HD display and standard definition service from D*; have you considered upgrading the D* service to HD. It would cost $100-$200 bucks probably for them to come out, install the new dish, run additional wires, and give you an HR20 (HD PVR).

If you're a long time customer in good standing they may very well set you up with the HD equipment for free. I've been getting automated calls from D* the last couple months offering me the new MPEG4 HD equipment for the new HD channels "at no cost to you". Maybe they're offering it to me because I have an elderly HTL-HD MPEG2 only box and subscribed to the HD tier for a few years, I dunno.

Point of interest. The co-producer of Heroes is Lori Motyer. She is a KSU grad and worked as a director at WAKC (or maybe it WAKR at that time).

Hello, fellow Auburn Resident,

I have Direct* but have the HD package. I still am using an outside antenna to pick up my LOcal HD's even though they come in with Direct* but not nearly as well as my antenna. My H20 will not decode the low band VHF for 3-1 or 3-2. My new Toshiba does decode everything perfectly (including 3-1 and 3-2) with my antenna splitter as one feed goes to the H20 and one to the toshiba. I tried an indoor antenna to no avail. For my money, i am very happy with the outdoor antenna with the rotor so that I can get Youngstown without any problems.

Steve

Used to like it. Until Steve Carell refused to make new episodes even though they had scripts already written.

Yeah, I hate it when people stand up for their rights and the rights of others... :rolleyes:

Is it normal for the signal to change daily on all stations? Sometimes Fox will come in around 75 then the next day its at 65. Generally all my stations are between 68-71 but sometimes they drop out altogether. I have a Phillips HD antenna mounted on the chimney and I live in parma. I spent countless hours adjusting the thing with my girlfriend by the tv. The thing is I had everything over 70 and they next day it changes..uhhhhhhhhhhgggggg. Damn Dish Network no HD locals:(. Signal seems to be worse the colder it gets??

same problem here, well sorta :) the only station that does this is ABC, as I get it at 80-82 one day, then low 70s (which had dropouts on the reciever)..NBC comes in at 80, Fox at 100, and CBS at 73-77 all those with VERY little dropouts, I Have Dish network as well and I live in Green ohio.

What is a good antenna for are area? I have a feeling it may be my antenna. Will it help if I get one of those boosters or amplifiers?

What is a good antenna for are area? I have a feeling it may be my antenna. Will it help if I get one of those boosters or amplifiers?

I use a radio shack outdoor/attic antenna that is I think 60 bucks, it has worked great ,and I dont have a preamp. just a amp as I have a split (2 tv's) it works great, I just think its a hiccup in the dishnetwork software as my tv recieves these channels without a hitch.


http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103085&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family

Yeah, I hate it when people stand up for their rights and the rights of others... :rolleyes:

You're right! How could I forget that those poor:rolleyes: writers who live in Hollywood and make between $70K and $100K+ have a right to even more money! Of course all at the expense of non-writing people like makeup, wardrobe, audio/video and stage crews. Plus, the alienation of the audience.

I love sarcasam!:D

I love sarcasam!:D

There's only room for one Smarty-pants around here...:D;)

There's only room for one Smarty-pants around here...:D;)

Hmm... I wonder if that is true. Don't we usually refer to the garment worn suspended by the waist as "a pair of pants"? Does that not imply that there is indeed room here for a pair of Smarty-pants?

Now that I think about it, have you ever seen someone wearing a pant? I wonder how that would work. Could be attractive, but in most cases would probably be scary...

:)

I use a DC-9000 (91 elements VHS/UHF, $90.00 from MCM, no rotor) and it works great on everything except for PBS 49.1 and 67.1 which most of the time they are fading and dropping out. About 20% of the time they are steady showing about 60-80 signal strength. Occasionally the signal strength will be a steady 10-20 and there will be no fades. The sound will drop out first, then the picture when there is a fade. The fades are quicker than the "damped" meter reading on the LCD HDTV. The strength on all the other channels is from 80-98. I have zero problems with 3.1, 3.2, 5.1, 8.1, 19.1, 19.2, 43.1, 43.2, 55.1, 61.1 The antenna is in a fixed position aiming at the Seven Hills area.
I have two splitters between the tv's (no pre-amps) with about 30 ft of Shack RG-6. I am assuming that PBS is transmitting low power. I don't watch 67.1 unless they have the ad for the Dean Martin roasts.
JJK

You're right! How could I forget that those poor:rolleyes: writers who live in Hollywood and make between $70K and $100K+ have a right to even more money! Of course all at the expense of non-writing people like makeup, wardrobe, audio/video and stage crews. Plus, the alienation of the audience.

See, they're actually losing money right now. One of the writers for Letterman made a really good argument on Bob and Tom, writers live off of the residuals between jobs. They make these residuals from re-runs. How often do you see reruns lately? The networks have pushed these "reruns" to the internet and DVD where the writers either don't receive residuals or receive a much smaller cut. So while writers likely make large amounts of money (I've never heard a firm figure) they do spend quite a bit of time between jobs where they are forced to live off of residuals.

For more information see: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike)

See, they're actually losing money right now. One of the writers for Letterman made a really good argument on Bob and Tom, writers live off of the residuals between jobs. They make these residuals from re-runs. How often do you see reruns lately? The networks have pushed these "reruns" to the internet where the writers don't receive residuals. So while writers likely make large amounts of money (I've never heard a firm figure) they do spend quite a bit of time between jobs where they are forced to live off of residuals.

For more information see: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike)


There are always two perspectives. There is the company view (Network) and then there are the employees (writers).

First nobody has ever gained anything from an extended strike. So no matter how it comes out the writers are going to lose anyway. So will the networks but their losses won't be as bad as the writers.

But this isn't an ordinary strike. This is already rich people who are still making extraordinary amounts of money who have had the company, which is even richer cutting them out of some profits.

It's real hard for me to feel sorry for these guys (writers). First since financially I'm not involved all I can see is me missing out some great shows in the second part of this season, like 24. Second, how many of us working people haven't had the company screw us over in one way or another over the past 15 years. When I worked for Citi I had health insurance through my wife's work. Citi actually compensated me for not costing them money by not getting health insurance. Then one year they decided not only to increase the cost of health care, which I know is out of their hands. and just plain stop paying me for not getting insurance. I don't care how you look at it, that's double dipping.

They also got rid of their "pension plan" in favor of giving stock to their employees. When I left 5 years later I didn't get one penny from those stocks. Nothing. I still don't know why.

So excuse me if I have no sympathy for these writers. It seems they are compensated just fine and if they had to take a bite out of their checks they are just getting screwed just like the rest of us. Only they are still rich.

So excuse me if I have no sympathy for these writers. It seems they are compensated just fine and if they had to take a bite out of their checks they are just getting screwed just like the rest of us. Only they are still rich.

Ditto.

Thanks for the antenna suggestions. I think I am going to pick up the radioshack one.

WOW THANKS! I got that radio shack antenna and all of my channels are in the 90s with the exception of WUAB (43) which is at 70-71. Thanks for the info on the antenna. Don't know what the problem with 43 is but the signal hasn't dropped on it yet so I could care less.

WOW THANKS! I got that radio shack antenna and all of my channels are in the 90s with the exception of WUAB (43) which is at 70-71. Thanks for the info on the antenna. Don't know what the problem with 43 is but the signal hasn't dropped on it yet so I could care less.

No Problem glad I could help! I am happy it has worked out for you...to be honest I once said I wasnt going to put a antenna on the roof as that is just silly, but now I am trying to get two antennas one for cleveland and one for youngstown! I love OTA...also when dish network turns on Cleveland HD locals next year, I will be able to record 3 HD shows at once, 2 off of satellite and one off of OTA antenna.

I love OTA...also when dish network turns on Cleveland HD locals next year, I will be able to record 3 HD shows at once, 2 off of satellite and one off of OTA antenna.


While I admit I'm a bit ignorant about Dish's DVR (other then the fact that they stole TiVo technology) I have to say this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone able to record 3 shows at once. I don't believe any DVR is capable of that so are you talking about two DVR's? And if that's the case wouldn't you be able to record 4 shows at once?

If it is a single DVR please give me the link, I gotta see that to believe it.

yep, here is just something to glance at....http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/dvr-reviews/review.html...scroll down to dvrs for satellite...also please feel free to come to satelliteguys.us it truly is one of the best sites.....also its not just Dish Dvrs that have "Tivo" technology (the ones that patented it, as Dish had a dvr that did this before tivo) but Alot of dvr's have it, but Directv has a contract (a non sue contract) and Comcast uses tivo, not sure about time warner. But Dish Dvr's truly are rated very high, thats why I went with them, they are quality :)

As I see it there are two types of current writers: The writers on CSI or 24 and the other top rated shows that make tons of money in making new shows and syndication. Just try to NOT find a CSI or Law & Order on cable! I can see those shows being on the networks and in syndication for years.


When an hourlong show like CSI gets rerun on network TV, the writer gets about $20,000. What the networks want to do is have the right to rerun these shows over the Internet while paying the writers almost nothing for their work.

So let's talk about the "rich" writers. Yes, there are some people who belong to the Writers Guild who are cleaning it up, because they have talent **and** a good agent **and** they write what the networks are buying. There are also lots of other people who belong to the Writers Guild who have talent and make very little money. They have to make at least $30K per year to qualify for membership in the Writers Guild health plan, yet in any given year a substantial portion of the membership does not qualify. The contract proposed by the networks will deprive these people of the payment they deserve for their work.

Before people take sides against the Writers Guild, they should consider that the mainstream media coverage of the strike is controlled by the people against whom the writers are striking and likely contains significant bias.

yep, here is just something to glance at....http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/dvr-reviews/review.html...scroll down to dvrs for satellite...also please feel free to come to satelliteguys.us it truly is one of the best sites.....also its not just Dish Dvrs that have "Tivo" technology (the ones that patented it, as Dish had a dvr that did this before tivo) but Alot of dvr's have it, but Directv has a contract (a non sue contract) and Comcast uses tivo, not sure about time warner. But Dish Dvr's truly are rated very high, thats why I went with them, they are quality :)

Well, you made me work a bit to find it but I did see that it does indeed record 3 shows at one time. That is a nice feature!

Comcast has a deal with TiVo to use their software, just as D* does (and in some cases still does). There is another cable company who also has a deal with TiVo but I don't remember who it is it just isn't TW.

Before people take sides against the Writers Guild, they should consider that the mainstream media coverage of the strike is controlled by the people against whom the writers are striking and likely contains significant bias.

People in the writers guild that can pay 30g a year arn't hurting for money. If they are and they are just breaking even, then probably none of this stuff the writers guild is fighting for is ever going to affect them unless they do make it big.

But what really bothers me about your post is the comment you made that I quoted. The media has absolutely no affect on my opinion of this strike. I haven't taken anything they have said about it into consideration. Further I don't recall any stories that would lead me to believe the media has been unfair in their coverage.

Well, you made me work a bit to find it but I did see that it does indeed record 3 shows at one time. That is a nice feature!

Comcast has a deal with TiVo to use their software, just as D* does (and in some cases still does). There is another cable company who also has a deal with TiVo but I don't remember who it is it just isn't TW.

Really great option...Like I said if all goes well next year I will be able to record 2 HD shows off of satellite, and one off of OTA if I need to....i was really looking forward to today trying this as I thought for sure they would have sci fi HD turned on, but instead they had last minute techinical difficulties and the channel wasnt turned on, I wanted to see as my wife had a HD show recording, I was going to record Tin Man on Sci Fi in HD and then watch football, but oh well Dish Network is alot nicer then people think, I Know ALOT of die hard dish fans, and with the two new satellites being lauched and capacity for 200 HD channels, plus 1500-2000 locals it will be neat to see the competition! and the other cable company is a local small time guy I believe, not really much on the national radar (if I remember correctly in my readings of tivo)

People in the writers guild that can pay 30g a year arn't hurting for money.

I didn't say that writers were paying $30K per year. I said that they have to earn $30K per year as a writer in order to qualify for Writers Guild's group health plan--which they also have to pay for. Although $30K a year is above the poverty level, it's hardly "rich." Have any idea how much family health insurance costs?

But what really bothers me about your post is the comment you made that I quoted. The media has absolutely no affect on my opinion of this strike. I haven't taken anything they have said about it into consideration. Further I don't recall any stories that would lead me to believe the media has been unfair in their coverage.

You wouldn't be seeing stories in the mainstream media telling you that the mainstream media are unfair in their coverage, of course. Here's a sampling of what the mainstream media are not covering, including the fact that a writer would get paid $253 for a one-hour TV show to be shown on the internet, under the terms being offered by the networks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/wga-strike-primer-merry_b_75928.html

This is a link to the Writer's Guild FAQ page about the strike (BTW, I am not a TV writer and I have no connection with TV writers or the media):
http://www.unitedhollywood.com/crumb.html

Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?

Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?

Sometimes you can and sometimes not. Depends on your cable or satellite company, depends on your equipment, how new or properly hooked up the lines coming into your house are, etc... etc... etc...

Isn't that the American way ;):D? Exploiting those wthout, so that those at the top can keep on livin' the good life.
BTW, just in case of misintepratation, I am NOT for the writers strike :).

Plus, then the health insurance; if everyone is paid more, the membership and health insurance will cost more.


I don't understand how you reach this conclusion. The insurance benefits are not free to members. They have to pay for them once they are in the union and eligible by making over $30K. The larger the number of members in an insurance group, the more power they have to negotiate lower premiums with insurers. Try and negotiate with them, and then see what kind of rate you get versus what rate the Teamsters get.

Additionally, the cost of membership to a union doesn't have to increase when membership goes up, since economies of scale are possible when it comes to management and expenses.

Another quick question is it true that an OTA signal is actually a better HD feed because it is uncompressed? If this so can u guys actually tell the difference?

TW does not compress the HD signal. I know this because of my contact with headend.

You wouldn't be seeing stories in the mainstream media telling you that the mainstream media are unfair in their coverage, of course. Here's a sampling of what the mainstream media are not covering, including the fact that a writer would get paid $253 for a one-hour TV show to be shown on the internet, under the terms being offered by the networks:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/wga-strike-primer-merry_b_75928.html

This is a link to the Writer's Guild FAQ page about the strike (BTW, I am not a TV writer and I have no connection with TV writers or the media):
http://www.unitedhollywood.com/crumb.html

Sorry, that had really nothing to do with my post. I said I made up my mind against the writers strike based on, and I'm being quite honest here A. the loss of my own personal viewing pleasure, and B. The media had not helped me form an opinion.

I probably formed an opinion more about the writers strike from this forum then anywhere else.

Thanks to all who replied about my QAM questions. I appreciate the info!

I've been trolling this thread for a few weeks now, but I wanted to add my experience here in case it helps others. Sort of my way of "giving back". :)

I'm in S. Euclid. I just got Dish Network, so I obviously needed an antenna solution for local HD. I started out with a Radio Shack DA-5200. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2253765&cp=2032057.2032187.2032189.2032205&parentPage=family I tested it inside, and on my roof. For my exact location, this didn't work well enough for me. My main goal was for the 4 main networks (3, 5, 8, 19). It was OK when directly connected to my TV, however, there would be a blip here and there. When connected to the Dish receiver, the receiver who splash that yellow banner, saying it lost signal and is reacquiring, basically making it unwatchable. This happened over and over, every 15-30 seconds.

So, I called Solid Signal (.com), and they pointed me to the Channel Master 3010 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=ANC3010). Once this was installed on my roof, I have signal strength of full 100 for Fox, high 90s for ABC and CBS, and 75-80 for NBC, and a very consistent signal. Interestingly enough, I still can't get WVIZ 25 PBS, even though I thought their transmitter was technically closer than one of the networks I'm getting strong signals from, but no complaints.

All is happy for me now in local HD land. :)

WVIZ is basically impossible to receive because they don't have an antenna up for their digital signal.

WVIZ is basically impossible to receive because they don't have an antenna up for their digital signal.

Yeah, WVIZ is pretty much known to have an awful (or even non-existant) digital signal. I'm in Strongsville and I get every digital Cleveland station except WVIZ with a rather basic outdoor antenna. Analog WVIZ comes in fine OTA.

I've heard conflicting stories about WVIZ's digital troubles, maybe someone in here may know what is really going on. Different stories I've heard:

1. The digital transmission "tower" is a temporary tower (or basic transmitter) located at their broadcast facility.
2. The digital transmission is temporarily on their analog tower, but not high up. They will move it up higher when they turn off analog.
3. They are temporarily broadcasting a digital signal (read 1 or 2) until their new tower is built somewhere in Parma area.
4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations. :D

OK, that makes me feel better about WVIZ, at least, why I can't get it. :D

Yeah, WVIZ is pretty much known to have an awful (or even non-existant) digital signal. I'm in Strongsville and I get every digital Cleveland station except WVIZ with a rather basic outdoor antenna. Analog WVIZ comes in fine OTA.

I've heard conflicting stories about WVIZ's digital troubles, maybe someone in here may know what is really going on. Different stories I've heard:

1. The digital transmission "tower" is a temporary tower (or basic transmitter) located at their broadcast facility.
2. The digital transmission is temporarily on their analog tower, but not high up. They will move it up higher when they turn off analog.
3. They are temporarily broadcasting a digital signal (read 1 or 2) until their new tower is built somewhere in Parma area.
4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations. :D

1. is the closest to the truth.

Here is the sad story. WVIZ does not own their analog tower, the antenna sits atop WNCX-FM's tower in North Royalton (which is owned by CBS, INC). CBS Inc. will not allow another antenna on the structure. As a short-term "fix" WVIZ set-up a 1 kw transmitter on a 99' tower at their old studio location on Brookpark Rd. (across the street from but technically not in Parma). At 1,000 watts/99' the signal barley gets out the 3 miles to my location. They have been operating this "temporary" transmitter for over 3 years now.

BTW: WVIZ's analog tower is slightly outside "the pack" in Parma. Unless you live far enough away (and in the right direction) a single antenna might need a rotor to re-aim at WVIZ. Also the comment about WVIZ being "closer" would only be true is you lived west to southwest of the antenna farm (Stronsgville would be an example). For all the east siders, WVIZ is actually farther away and there may be some terrain obstructions to add to the mess.

4. They are waiting for myself and hookbill to send in our PBS donations. :D

If that's the case then they will never increase their transmitter.:) Besides, being a cable subscriber I ge WVIZ just fine thank you. Now that's not putting a knock on any of you OTA guys, even if I wanted OTA because of my location I don't think I would get good signals without a real expensive antenna.

I tried rabbit ears on my S3 and I didn't get zip.

WNEO is better. WVIZ won't get any from me! WNEO-HD broadcasts 5.1 shows in 5.1. WVIZ is only 2.0. Plus, with WNEO you also get a digital verison of the analog broadcast. The compression on "digital" SD local channels is HORRIBLE, so it's nice to have a less-compressed version. WKYC used to do this also. It was nice to have a digital SD channel back in the day of analog only on channels under 100.

If that's the case then they will never increase their transmitter.:) Besides, being a cable subscriber I ge WVIZ just fine thank you. Now that's not putting a knock on any of you OTA guys, even if I wanted OTA because of my location I don't think I would get good signals without a real expensive antenna.

I tried rabbit ears on my S3 and I didn't get zip.

Yeah, I grew up waaaaay out east in Russell Twp.. Getting WVIZ out there was a pipe dream! We were lucky when we got 3,5 & 8. But here in Strongsville the WVIZ analog signal is solid.

When I did have an HD package with my cable provider, digital WVIZ wasn't even offered. So no HD PBS no matter how I slice it. *sigh*

1KW? Wow! Like Cole Younger say's, "It's a wonderment"
JJK

1. is the closest to the truth.

Here is the sad story. WVIZ does not own their analog tower, the antenna sits atop WNCX-FM's tower in North Royalton (which is owned by CBS, INC). CBS Inc. will not allow another antenna on the structure. As a short-term "fix" WVIZ set-up a 1 kw transmitter on a 99' tower at their old studio location on Brookpark Rd. (across the street from but technically not in Parma). At 1,000 watts/99' the signal barley gets out the 3 miles to my location. They have been operating this "temporary" transmitter for over 3 years now.

BTW: WVIZ's analog tower is slightly outside "the pack" in Parma. Unless you live far enough away (and in the right direction) a single antenna might need a rotor to re-aim at WVIZ. Also the comment about WVIZ being "closer" would only be true is you lived west to southwest of the antenna farm (Stronsgville would be an example). For all the east siders, WVIZ is actually farther away and there may be some terrain obstructions to add to the mess.


Michael, you've got it right. I feel badly for those guys; they'd like nothing better than to be able to go full power on their DTV channel from an antenna mounted at a decent height. Unfortunately they've been at the mercy of the owner of the tower.

BTW I think they're running with an antenna gain of 10, so their transmitter is running at 1/10th of their ERP.

Michael, you've got it right. I feel badly for those guys; they'd like nothing better than to be able to go full power on their DTV channel from an antenna mounted at a decent height. Unfortunately they've been at the mercy of the owner of the tower.

From what I read on their web site, they are hoping/planning to build their own tower in the (near?) future. Best of luck to them... If and when this goes forward, I'd love to take a few vacation days to watch the tower go up. I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...

I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...

I have two replys for this. Since I don't know which one is best I'll use both.

Reply one (suppose to be funny): Kind of sounds like this woman I woke up next to in 1978 after hitting the bars all night.

Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!:p

Back in 1969 the WDOK/WIXY tower came down twice. First was the 4th of July storm, then when constructing the replacement, the crew went too high without temporary guys and it came down again killing some of the workers.

TW does not compress the HD signal. I know this because of my contact with headend.

Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?

Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?

You must have missed the post where I said "I don't know diddly about QAM." However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal. D* does on the locals anyway.

Yes their is compression on the QAM (turning the signal to QAM) BUT there is no reshaping that I am aware of, or bit rate lowering that Time warner does. The last check I heard was that its as close to OTA as you will get.

However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal.

This appears to be true for local stations, but may or may not be true for other content. I don't know what bitrate the other HD channels are transmitted in to the headend, but channel 113 here is carrying 3 high-bitrate (probably HD) program streams. If those channels use less than 38mbit total from the source, they're fine. But if they are all using up to the 19mbit of a standard ATSC stream, then Time Warner is doing some sort of statistical multiplexing.

D* does on the locals anyway.
This is misleading.
In some markets, DirecTV might be encoding the local channels using MPEG4 from the ATSC-bitrate MPEG2 signal (bad). However, in other markets DirecTV installs MPEG4 encoders at the stations themselves, bypassing this process (good).

I don't know which applies to Cleveland.

Whoa, QAM = Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. This (as the acronym would suggest) is a signal modulation method instead of a compression method. Same with 8VSB, 8-level vestigial sideband modulation. Typically ATSC signals are transmitted using these modulation types. Typically MPEG2 compression is used for ATSC signals.

Now we do know local channels are provided to cable/satellite already compressed. It's unlikely that cable adds any additional compression to that signal, but nothing (besides a retransmission agreement) would stop them from doing so. Satellite OTOH does compress the provided signal using MPEG4.

It's unclear if channels provided by TBS, Universal, etc are already compressed when they are provided to cable/satellite. It would seem likely to me that they would already be compressed. We know that regardless of how they are provided that satellite does use (or is moving to) MPEG4 to compress the signal. It is also unclear if cable is either responsible for compressing the signal provided, if they compress the signal provided, or if they leave the signal alone.

You must have missed the post where I said "I don't know diddly about QAM." However I'm quite certain that TW doesn't compress the HD signal. D* does on the locals anyway.

I normally use OTA locals because I don't have to worry about problems during storms. However, my D* MPEG4 locals are basically indistinguishable from OTA on my 60" SXRD.

I'm not saying this as the new guy on the block. I've had HD for 5 years and calibrate my TV's (using my own colorometer for grayscale) a couple times each year (i.e., I'm pretty particular about the video quality).

Satellite OTOH does compress the provided signal using MPEG4.

"Satellite"? You mean DirecTV and Dish Network?

DirecTV may, in some markets, recompress local channels using MPEG4 AVC from the ATSC MPEG2 source; it's also possible that they install an MPEG4 AVC encoder at the station to bypass going from MPEG2->MPEG4.

This means that it is possible for DirecTV to have a better picture in those markets where they install MPEG4 hardware at the stations.

It's unclear if channels provided by TBS, Universal, etc are already compressed when they are provided to cable/satellite.

Of course they're compressed.

It is also unclear if cable is either responsible for compressing the signal provided, if they compress the signal provided, or if they leave the signal alone.

Cable and satellite networks get either a MPEG2 or MPEG4 AVC stream. Since most current cable TV receiving hardware only supports decoding MPEG2, any MPEG4 channels received at the head end must be recompressed.

HBO, for example, has already announced that it will use 8mbit/sec MPEG4 for its upcoming HD channels:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/10163.cfm

I normally use OTA locals because I don't have to worry about problems during storms. However, my D* MPEG4 locals are basically indistinguishable from OTA on my 60" SXRD.

I'm not saying this as the new guy on the block. I've had HD for 5 years and calibrate my TV's (using my own colorometer for grayscale) a couple times each year (i.e., I'm pretty particular about the video quality).

Every report I have seen indicates that D*'s compressed signal is excellent quality. My statement that D* compresses it's signal was not meant to say that the quality was any less then TW or even OTA. It was simply a statement of fact.

Every report I have seen indicates that D*'s compressed signal is excellent quality. My statement that D* compresses it's signal was not meant to say that the quality was any less then TW or even OTA. It was simply a statement of fact.

Bottom line: If it's HD and is broadcast at any point, it was compressed. Otherwise it won't even come close to fitting within the allocated spectrum bandwidth.

For any PBS fans out there or anyone in search of a rare respectable news program, PBS' The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be going HD on Monday December 17th......

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/11/pbs-the-newshour-with-jim-lehrer-going-hd/

For any PBS fans out there or anyone in search of a rare respectable news program, PBS' The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be going HD on Monday December 17th......

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/11/pbs-the-newshour-with-jim-lehrer-going-hd/

That is great news. PBS constitutes about 90% of my TV viewing.
Thanks for the info.

PBS constitutes about 90% of my TV viewing.

:eek::eek::eek:
















:D

Does anyone notice on TW (Amherst area - old Comcast network), the poor HD signal on TNTHD lately? Watching some basketball games the other night was terrible and watching the Closer tonight is not great either. Seems like macroblocking/pixelation.

Also, where are our new HD channels, sure wish some more would come soon.

Sorry I took so long to answer. Yes I agree with your valuation, also TBS HD also leaves a lot to be desired.

:eek::eek::eek:
















:D

Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.

Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.

Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.:p

Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.:p

Of course now you need to go out and buy that fancy sport's car. You know, to keep you young ;).

Well, I'm 55 years old and 95% of what I watch is from the major networks. And I still listen to rock and I like it loud. You know what they say, if it's too loud your too old.:p

Haha, you guys are funny!! Well, I'm 24 years old, and most of the programming I watch is on PBS, although I wouldn't say 90%, but still a large chunk. I just think that the all the other networks are too commercialized. Besides, PBS has some very interesting nature programs in HD, and I also like watching NOVA. Hopefully WVIZ will have their issues resolved soon.

Tell me if I'm incorrect, but isn't that what QAM is, compressed. So that it can be trasmitted down coax, and then uncompressed at the QAM tuner?

QAM is just the modulation format and has no direct bearing on compression. Any of the modulation formats (AM, FM, 8-VSB, QAM, FSK, COFDM) can carry either compressed or uncompressed signals (or a mixture of both simultaneously). Furthermore, an MPTS (multiprogram transport stream) can carry different programs at different compression levels depending on the content and the needs of the broadcaster.

It's all alphabet soup! :)

If and when this goes forward, I'd love to take a few vacation days to watch the tower go up. I have this weird fasciniation with the raw physics of transmission towers - tall, thin, very heavy, and supported by only a few square inches at the base...

It's amazing to watch those guys in action. I watched a tower going up and they were strapped off to tower parts, dangling from their belts and tossing hammers to each other 80' in the air! :eek:

It was also interesting to watch them drill the holes for the footers. I saw big chunks of shale flying out of the ground when they were digging with a huge auger.

I was horrified to read in another thread here on AVS that some of the HD channel providers are intentionally providing a lower-bandwidth signal to the cable companies, at the cable companies request, since they don't have the bandwidth capacity. So thanks to the idiot cable companies, we all (regardless of provider) may be very well suffering poor HD PQ.

I was horrified to read in another thread here on AVS that some of the HD channel providers are intentionally providing a lower-bandwidth signal to the cable companies, at the cable companies request, since they don't have the bandwidth capacity. So thanks to the idiot cable companies, we all (regardless of provider) may be very well suffering poor HD PQ.

This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.

I have two replys for this. Since I don't know which one is best I'll use both.

Reply one (suppose to be funny): Kind of sounds like this woman I woke up next to in 1978 after hitting the bars all night.

Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!:p

Hehe.... Reply one - funny. Reply two - well.....true.

:)

This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.

Agreed. A simple proof of this is that most, if not all, of the not-tiny cable operators spend major cash to build OTA HD reception capability for their headends. (I know of at least three owned by TWC within 30 miles of me.) Although they usually prefer to get their feeds via fiber when possible, they can always switch to the OTA feed in case of a fiber cut or other problem. If they didn't have the ability to handle the full OTA HD feed internally, there wouldn't be much reason to build these facilities.

(If you're bored some day, go visit the TWC reception tower near the intersection of I-80 and SR 46. You can get fairly close before running into the first "Keep Out" sign. Several dishes, a bunch of antennas aimed at Cleveland and Youngstown, and an old lawn tractor flipped upside-down. I'm guessing the tractor is acting as a single-element reflector... :) )

DirecTV may, in some markets, recompress local channels using MPEG4 AVC from the ATSC MPEG2 source; it's also possible that they install an MPEG4 AVC encoder at the station to bypass going from MPEG2->MPEG4.
It's possible that they could do that, but I've never heard that they have. The best situation I have heard is a fiber feed from the broadcast side of the affiliate's encoder (otherwise DirecTV receives the signal OTA). Where have you heard of an encoder being installed at the affiliate before the affiliate's encoder?

Cable and satellite networks get either a MPEG2 or MPEG4 AVC stream. Since most current cable TV receiving hardware only supports decoding MPEG2, any MPEG4 channels received at the head end must be recompressed.

Sorry, I oversimplified my previous statement. Sure it's likely a compressed video stream, but is it at a rate that anyone would retransmit? It's my understanding that local affiliates (excluding Fox affiliates) receive a feed from the networks that is at a much higher rate than what they broadcast which they then take and compress down to fit their available bandwidth (this also allows for key inserts, etc). I would assume the same might be done for non-broadcast networks (TBS, Universal, etc). So do we know for sure if cable is supplied a signal that they MUST compress to make it usable or just a signal that they could compress further? Maybe it's just different from network to network.

It's possible that they could do that, but I've never heard that they have. The best situation I have heard is a fiber feed from the broadcast side of the affiliate's encoder (otherwise DirecTV receives the signal OTA). Where have you heard of an encoder being installed at the affiliate before the affiliate's encoder?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/11/the-engadget-hd-interview-directvs-cto-re-hd-lite/
as well as other comments read on forums.

Sorry, I oversimplified my previous statement. Sure it's likely a compressed video stream, but is it at a rate that anyone would retransmit? It's my understanding that local affiliates (excluding Fox affiliates) receive a feed from the networks that is at a much higher rate than what they broadcast which they then take and compress down to fit their available bandwidth (this also allows for key inserts, etc).

I'd guess <=48 mbit (probably about 40mbit) MPEG2 for satellite transmission and possibly D5 HD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D5_HD)'s compression for programming on tapes.

The 48 mbit figure comes from the apparent maximum transport bitrate of one DVB-S transponder, and the 40mbit MPEG2 figure comes from claims of streams of broadcast TV programs captured before reaching affiliates in the chain.

Per the Starz press release linked below, DVB-S2 can transport a 77 mbit stream over a single transponder, and MPEG4 AVC means that networks can use less bandwidth, so things will change in the future.

Another Engadget article suggests that HD programs are stored locally using D5-HD tapes, which is compressed (but not by much, only 4:1). I do not know if this is used for the distribution of syndicated programs or not.

I would assume the same might be done for non-broadcast networks (TBS, Universal, etc). So do we know for sure if cable is supplied a signal that they MUST compress to make it usable or just a signal that they could compress further? Maybe it's just different from network to network.

Of course it's different from network to network right now. But some networks have been around for a long time (using MPEG2 hardware.) If 40mbit/sec is a realistic transport stream bitrate, then I suspect that some channels are delivered in MPEG2 with ATSC/QAM256 friendly bitrates with two HD channels per transponder (perhaps east and west feeds?)

HBO has stated that they will use 8mbit per channel when they perform the HD rollout of all of their channels, using MPEG4 AVC. Considering that HBO has been offering HDTV feeds of their main channel (east/west) since 1999, I imagine that other premium services will follow if they haven't already.

Starz has recently purchased equipment capable of both MPEG2 and MPEG4 AVC, so they can start with MPEG2 and move to MPEG4 AVC in the future:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6473315.html

It appears that the Smithsonian Network is being distributed by MPEG4:
press release (http://www.convergedigest.com/DSL/lastmilearticle.asp?ID=22691)

also, Turner's TV channels are being distributed by both MPEG2 and MPEG4 right now: TBS delivers IP programming with Scientific Atlanta’s MPEG-4 encoders (http://broadcastengineering.com/products/tbs-scientific-atlanta-encoders/)
as well as http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/issue.php?w=2006-11-17

More relevant press releases:
http://www.convergedigest.com/DSL/subtopic.asp?category=%5BLast%20Mile%5D&subtopic=%5BEncoding%5D&title=Encoding%20News

Other than sports I find little to watch on the major networks. I am 60 years old and find all the programing is for 30 and younger crowd.

I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.

I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.

Forum rules forbid the use of UofM within this forum.

ONE DEMERIT!

...Several dishes, a bunch of antennas aimed at Cleveland and Youngstown, and an old lawn tractor flipped upside-down.

Ok, so the REAL question is... why are you so interested in their tractor? :p

Ok, so the REAL question is... why are you so interested in their tractor? :p

Reply two (truthfull): Dude, you are such a geek!:p

'Nuff said! :)

Forum rules forbid the use of UofM within this forum.

ONE DEMERIT!

Hold up - the UofM filter added a demerit to you for quoting a reference to UofM. Uh-oh - it just added two, no, three, demerits to me...

Arrgh!

Ok, so from here on out, we need to make a pack to never make any more references to "that state up north." Agreed?

Reminds me of a funny story about late OSU coach Woody Hayes.....

Woody was famous for his hatred for Michigan and anything that had to do with the state (he referred to it, of course, as "that state up north" or "that team up north") . One night on a recruiting trip in the state of Michigan, an assistant noticed that the car he was driving was going to run out of gas. He let Woody, who was dozing in the passenger seat, that he had to pull over for gas. Woody refused, and the assistant drove on. The assistant, who saw the weather was starting to get bad, began to become worried about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, and once again stressed his desire to pull over and get gas. Woody erupted: "No, goddammit! We do NOT pull in and fill up. And I'll tell you exactly why we don't. It's because I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan! We'll coast and PUSH this goddam car to the Ohio line before I give this state a nickel of my money!" The assistant knew he wasn't kidding, and they barely made it across the border and sputtered into the first gas station they found in Ohio. :D

I'm older than you (retired for over 8 years) and mostly watch the major networks during prime time. Of course, I'm shallow, mentally retarded, and went to graduate school at U of Michigan.

I was stating my preferences for TV viewing. Each to their own. Go Buckeyes.

I was stating my preferences for TV viewing. Each to their own. Go Buckeyes.

You indicated your preferences were a function of your advanced age. I said I was even older but that was offset by other traits. I made a poor attempt at humor. You obviously missed the point. But I do agree, Go Buckeyes!

You indicated your preferences were a function of your advanced age. I said I was even older but that was offset by other traits. I made a poor attempt at humor. You obviously missed the point. But I do agree, Go Buckeyes!

No, I got your point and it wasn't a poor attempt at humor. And as Andrew K pointed out he's just a kid and he watches PBS.

And he really made the point: Age is not a factor on what we like on television, it's personal taste. Maybe you and I have bad taste. If anyone thinks so they can Kiss my.....whoops, got carried away.:p

Reminds me of a funny story about late OSU coach Woody Hayes.....

Woody was famous for his hatred for Michigan and anything that had to do with the state (he referred to it, of course, as "that state up north" or "that team up north") . One night on a recruiting trip in the state of Michigan, an assistant noticed that the car he was driving was going to run out of gas. He let Woody, who was dozing in the passenger seat, that he had to pull over for gas. Woody refused, and the assistant drove on. The assistant, who saw the weather was starting to get bad, began to become worried about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere, and once again stressed his desire to pull over and get gas. Woody erupted: "No, goddammit! We do NOT pull in and fill up. And I'll tell you exactly why we don't. It's because I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan! We'll coast and PUSH this goddam car to the Ohio line before I give this state a nickel of my money!" The assistant knew he wasn't kidding, and they barely made it across the border and sputtered into the first gas station they found in Ohio. :D

Yeah, even I've heard that story. And I'm not a big college football fan.

Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.

Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.

Yeah, even I've heard that story. And I'm not a big college football fan.

Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.

Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.

That's because Woody and the Buckeye boys have notoriously put so much effort and emotion into the last regular game of the season against "THAT TEAM UP NORTH", that they simply didn't have anything left for Bowl games. Now that is a great rivalry.

That's because Woody and the Buckeye boys have notoriously put so much effort and emotion into the last regular game of the season against Michigan, that they simply didn't have anything left for Bowl games. Now that is a great rivalry.

That's one demerit.:D

That's one demerit.:D

Damn, how did I let that slip!?

Anyways, I edited my above post to not mention that team up north more specifically...

Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.

I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).

I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.

My questions are:

1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.

2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?

3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.


Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!

Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.

I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).

I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.

My questions are:

1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.

2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?

3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.


Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!

I don't have sat service, so I can't answer that portion. But I I may be able to help with the antenna portion. I dought an indoor set-top antenna would work well out that far.

I do get HD locals OTA. I'm in Strongsville and tried a good directional outdoor antenna in my attic with limited success. Best I got was 75% signal at best, some (like Ch3/WKYC with it's notoriously weak signal) came in only 1/3 of the time. I replaced that outdoor directional Winegard antenna that was in my attic with an outdoor Winegard multi-directional, mounted on my chimney. It looks like a 24" "dish" but perfectly flat and sits horizontal. Works very well and is very discreet (outdoor antennas are prohibited in my development). I even stained it the same color as the house to help it blend in better.

Both of these antennas were very reasonable ($ 140 directional, $ 98 multi-directional saucer). If you want the info on either I'll gladly look up the model numbers and post here.

Might be best if you had someone else climb the 30 ft. My antenna is a DC-9000 from MCM Electronics for about &90.00, VHF/UHF, 91 elements and 17 ft long. They will ship it UPS dissassembled. You probably will not be happy with an indoor antenna. Fades on digital channels are an absolutely miserable experience.
JJK

I don't know anything about OTA, but I do know from what I've read that roof top is best and there is a guy named Jim West (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5753438&highlight=Jim+West#post5753438) who seems highly recommended who will help you.

Ok, I'm a newbie and have a few questions for the vets and tech-savvy folks. I'm sure my answers are somewhere in here, but I don't have time to sort through 356 pages.

I just bought a house in Bay Village and had Dish Network install an HD-DVR on my HD LCD television. I get all the national channels in HD (ESPN, TBS, etc.) but Dish Network still doesn't have the local HD channels (ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC).

I looked on antennaweb.org and determined I would need a multi-directional VHF/UHF antenna to receive these channels with terminals approx. 13-15 miles away.

My questions are:

1) Can I purchase an antenna at a Circuit City/RadioShack to complement my HD-DVR so I can receive the local channels? If so, will they "show up" on my Dish program guide or does the Dish receiver need to be turned off? Any additional info/feedback on this is appreciated.

2) I have a colonial house so I really don't feel like climbing up 30ft onto my roof; can the above be accomplished with an indoor antenna?

3) What antennas are the best? I don't have the biggest budget right now after buying a house and $2k TV.


Any help or recommendations is much appreciated. Thanks!
I too have a Dish Network (abbreviation: "E*") HD DVR. To get the HD OTA signals you need an outdoor antenna, but not necessarily a "multidirectional" antenna. From Bay Village the Parma antenna farm should be a straight shot. the slight differences in compass direction from station to station should not be much of a factor. Just aim at the center of the bunch. The only reason to aim beyond Parma is if you wanted the Akron stations (if you are a big PBS viewer that may be a necessity since WVIZ's digital signal barely makes it beyond Brookpark Rd.). the toughest signals to get are WKYC (this is a temporary situation as WKYC will move to ch 17 in 2009) and WOIO (who insists on being on ch 10 even though Canada will still be analog for years after the USA goes all digital). So you will need a good all band antenna.

As for your E* DVR getting the locals into the guide, you have to scan for OTA signals after connecting a good antenna. The channel numbers and call letters will be displayed with their "virtual" channel numbers (i.e. their current analog channel numbers 3, 5, 8... even though the actual rf frequency is 2, 15, 10,...). If you want guide data for the OTA station E* makes you subscribe to the SD Cleveland locals (btw I don't subscribe so I get "local programming" in place of the actual program names).

Many of you probably remember that I'm originally from the Los Angeles area. Woody Hayes. Name sounds familiar. I seem to remember quite a rivalry between OS and USC in the Rose Bowl. If memory serves me the Trojans usually were the winners of those games.

Go Trojans! No demerits, they are not on the list.

You're from LA? The reindeer goat cheese pizza capital of the world? That in itself may deserve additional demerits... :)

(Bonus points for the first person to identify the correct source of the pizza reference. Additional points to point out the intended irony. Prize-winning points if you own the DVD.)

I just installed a newly purchased Samsung LN-T3753H in my apartment in Lakewood. I'm on the 10th floor at Bunts and Detroit with an unobstructed line of site to the "tower farm". The over air HD feeds from all the local stations are superb with $10 "rabbit ears" connected to the ANT1 connector. I wonder how many people here know that WVIZ has four feeds, including audio only. With a twist of the antenna, I can even get a perfect picture from all the PBS feeds from channel 49 in Akron. The exception is WKYC which is all but unviewable which is really a shame considering the money they spent on their new digs on Lakeside Ave. What a waste!
My cable provider is Cox from which I obtained a Scientific Atlanta 4250HDC interface. I also have a PS2, an upconverting DVD, and a VCR hooked up. The only reason I have the STB is because the PIP has to have an HDMI input as the main screen for it to work.
This LCD HD television is the future with 9 input sources of which 3 are HDMI, 2 composite, 2 RF and 2 S-video. Between the inputs, user controllable manual adjustments and the ones available on the cable box, the combinations are infinite.
Buy this TV!

[QUOTE=Michael P 2341;12484201]I too have a Dish Network (abbreviation: "E*") HD DVR. To get the HD OTA signals you need an outdoor antenna, but not necessarily a "multidirectional" antenna. From Bay Village the Parma antenna farm should be a straight shot. the slight differences in compass direction from station to station should not be much of a factor. Just aim at the center of the bunch. The only reason to aim beyond Parma is if you wanted the Akron stations (if you are a big PBS viewer that may be a necessity since WVIZ's digital signal barely makes it beyond Brookpark Rd.). the toughest signals to get are WKYC (this is a temporary situation as WKYC will move to ch 17 in 2009) and WOIO (who insists on being on ch 10 even though Canada will still be analog for years after the USA goes all digital). So you will need a good all band antenna.

Mparis86: Michael P is absolutely correct, a directional would not only work in your situation, it is probably a better solution for you due to your distance and would certainly help in picking up the weaker signals like WKYC & WOIO.

I should have been more clear before: I did the directional antenna inside the attic knowing that the attic walls & roof would deplete as much as 50% of the signal. When I decided to go with an outdoor antenna the aesthetics (as low profile as possible) was just as important to me as the signal.

directional = somewhat largish, standard looking TV antenna, stronger reception, will pick up signals further away

my multi-directional = Winegard MS 2000, very low profile, picks up every local Cleveland digital broadcast except WVIZ, picks up WKYC & WOIO with no problem, weakest digital signal I have ever seen with this antenna is 75%

Pics of MS 2000
http://www.dennysantennaservice.com/1073325.html

You're from LA?


With the way the Browns are playing this year I can no longer use my joke.

What do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither have a professional football team.

However since we love to go off topic (at least some do) there is an old joke (brain twister) that has come back into use, effective 2008.

There are 4 teams in MLB that have the letter "C" on their cap. Can you name them? Hint: One only wears it on their batting helmets now.

You're from LA? The reindeer goat cheese pizza capital of the world? That in itself may deserve additional demerits... :)

(Bonus points for the first person to identify the correct source of the pizza reference. Additional points to point out the intended irony. Prize-winning points if you own the DVD.)

That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?

With the way the Browns are playing this year I can no longer use my joke.

What do L.A. and Cleveland have in common? Neither have a professional football team.

However since we love to go off topic (at least some do) there is an old joke (brain twister) that has come back into use, effective 2008.

There are 4 teams in MLB that have the letter "C" on their cap. Can you name them? Hint: One only wears it on their batting helmets now.

Chicago Cubs ("C"), Cincinnati Reds ("C"), Minnesota Twins ("TC") and the Colorado Rockies ("CR"). However, I thought the Cubs and Reds both have the letter "C" on their batting helmets? :rolleyes:.....

Chicago Cubs ("C"), Cincinnati Reds ("C"), Minnesota Twins ("TC") and the Colorado Rockies ("CR"). However, I thought the Cubs and Reds both have the letter "C" on their batting helmets? :rolleyes:.....


You get extra bonus points and I get a demerit. This was a bar puzzle I use to use in the 70's and so the question has gone to 5 teams with the addition of the Colorado Rockies. You did include Reds and Cubs in your answer, but you left out the Kansas City Royals. What most people missed was the Minnesota Twins. The Twins now use M on the cap and TC on the helmet. You also left out the Cleveland Indians who this year will go back to the C, hence the 2008 comment.

That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?

10 demerits for watching Hudson Hawk :D.

This doesn't sound right. Cable operators have the means to rate-shape and throttle the downlinked signal to fit their requirements. I'd want to see the source material for that claim.

Found in the thread "Widescreen Review - the best days of HD are behind us"

A handful of content providers are now distributing their feeds in MPEG-2 at anywhere from 8-13Mbps ABR. They've degraded their HD source feeds for everyone so cable companies can fit more channels onto their systems.

Sadly, it looks like the days of 17-19Mbps ABR source feeds are coming to an end. I don't know of a single channel launched in 2007 that is now distributed with more than 16Mbps ABR. Some channels like NGC-HD had higher source bitrates initially, but bitrate and quality was reduced at the request of some cable companies.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12303538#post12303538

Found in the thread "Widescreen Review - the best days of HD are behind us"
[/url]

If those were the best days then I hate to see what's coming up. Seriously 2 years ago there were times when HD channels would lose transmission and if you called and complained to a station (WOIO in particular-SURPRISE) they didn't put any effort into fixing it because the majority of people did not have HD. Only over the last year has things improved and I'm sure that is because HD is now more affordable and much more popular.

IMHO the best days are yet to come.

Even a terrific HDTV cannot make up for an 8 meg mpeg2 bitrate. That's plain old ordinary DVD-R, DVD+R stuff.
JJK

WKYC just posted a lot of information about the digital converter coupon program HERE (http://www.wkyc.com/weblog/directors_cut/2007/12/news-converter-coupons-available.html).

If you have any TVs that aren't hooked to cable or satellite, this will allow you to convert the OTA digital signal to analog for your TV.

You can apply for up to 2 coupons beginning January 1, 2008, but you won't be able to use the coupons until February 17, 2008. The site also shows you a sample application and gives you a list of retailers that will honor the coupons.

We're getting closer to February 17, 2009...:D

Way to go, NBC! :rolleyes: Their shameful self-promotion of "Clash of the Choirs" logo is the most irritating logo on TV right now. The big, color bird with the "Clash of the Choirs Monday 8PM" text AND it's on the wrong side of the screen! And tonight it's on over the classic "It's a Wonderful Life". Oh well, an irritating advertisement for an even more irritating show! :D

It seems the networks are in a competition to be the most irritating. First, NBC moves the logo to the wrong side of the screen. Then it's that opaque white color instead of clear and the "HD" text is added.

NBC' Today show has that animated graphic on the screen as well. Then, this year Good Morning America switches to a similar style logo as well. What ever happened to the days pf NO on-screen logos? Especially in the world of HDTV, these constant on-screen things are not good for Plasma screens.

Way to go, NBC! :rolleyes: Their shameful self-promotion of "Clash of the Choirs" logo is the most irritating logo on TV right now. The big, color bird with the "Clash of the Choirs Monday 8PM" text AND it's on the wrong side of the screen! And tonight it's on over the classic "It's a Wonderful Life". Oh well, an irritating advertisement for an even more irritating show! :D

It seems the networks are in a competition to be the most irritating. First, NBC moves the logo to the wrong side of the screen. Then it's that opaque white color instead of clear and the "HD" text is added.

NBC' Today show has that animated graphic on the screen as well. Then, this year Good Morning America switches to a similar style logo as well. What ever happened to the days pf NO on-screen logos? Especially in the world of HDTV, these constant on-screen things are not good for Plasma screens.

For me the network logos are not the problem on my plasmas. The only burn in I'm getting is from the damn cable box info bar (ch., show title, etc..) on the bottom of the screen. It cannot be turned off or moved. For heavy channel surfing I have to use zoom aspect ratio to get the info bar to not display. :mad:

Below is an article that discusses Time Warner changes because of the recent law change that puts them under state regulation:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-4/119771156721310.xml&coll=2

It looks like the Browns will finish the season in HD (assuming the Fox game in Week 17 will be in HD):

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/nfl.php

The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be HD for the first time this Monday night. It looks like my only option for recording this via D* is going OTA on WNEO channel 49-2 ? The D* channel "CL49" is always SD, correct?

It looks like 49-2 is mostly SD programming, and 49-1 carries the PBS HD "loop". While the Newshour is running on 49-2, there will be HD programming running on 49-1 at the same time. I'm curious to see what the PQ will look like.

(Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)

Directv does not offer PBS in HD.

(Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)


I agree! I get both on Time Warner and WNEO is way better than WVIZ. WNEO-DT also sends along the SD digital version of their SD channel and shows like "Nature" are in 5.1 surround. WVIZ is always 2.0. But with thier weak HD signal, I don't think digital TV is a priority to them right now. Guess they better do some more begging for money :rolleyes:

For me the network logos are not the problem on my plasmas. The only burn in I'm getting is from the damn cable box info bar (ch., show title, etc..) on the bottom of the screen. It cannot be turned off or moved. For heavy channel surfing I have to use zoom aspect ratio to get the info bar to not display. :mad:

Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.

Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.

I was watching something the other day that was talking about the different HDTV's. Plasma they said does have a tendency to have burn in and you probably would need a new one or have to put "gas" in it to make it last.

They gave top nod to LCD. No mention of projection, now that I think about it.

My HDTV is CRT and I don't think they make them anymore. A 30" screen is like 200 pounds. But I love the picture and I'll be it will last for years.

Cavs game on D* tonight - looks like D* is incorrectly flagging FSNOH HD channel 637-1 as 1080i. Anybody else seeing this? The audio on the announcers was also out of sync. I'm going to email them a note to complain.

Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.

But to the burn in issue, yes, I have seen the plasmas we use at work do that relatively quickly with static images fed from a PC. I've seen burn in as little as a week, despite what the plasma fanboys say. From what I can tell the burn in really isn't an issue for normal TV watching, though.

With that said, I love my Panny plasmas, and wouldn't want to watch on anything else (other than a CRT which has comparable color quality, clarity, and brightness from any viewing angle)

Cavs game on D* tonight - looks like D* is incorrectly flagging FSNOH HD channel 637-1 as 1080i. Anybody else seeing this? The audio on the announcers was also out of sync. I'm going to email them a note to complain.

Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.

But to the burn in issue, yes, I have seen the plasmas we use at work do that relatively quickly with static images fed from a PC. I've seen burn in as little as a week, despite what the plasma fanboys say. From what I can tell the burn in really isn't an issue for normal TV watching, though.

With that said, I love my Panny plasmas, and wouldn't want to watch on anything else (other than a CRT which has comparable color quality, clarity, and brightness from any viewing angle)

There is indeed a gas (actually a mixture of gases such as xenon, argon...) inside every pixel in a plasma set. They work on the same principle as fluorescent lights. The gas ionizes and lights up, producing shortwave UV light as well as a little bit of visible light. The UV light causes the phosphor coating to fluoresce, just like the white phosphor coating on fluorescent bulbs downconverts UV light to longer, visible wavelengths. And the phosphors in fluorescent bulbs wear out also, largely because of the caustic effect of shortwave UV bombardment.

The gas isn't field-replaceable, of course. But I've got to wonder whether there's a better mixture of phosphors and gases that can produce an equivalent fluorescence with longer UV wavelengths, which might have less of a tendency to eat the phosphors.

That from the '91 Bruce Willis Flick, "Hudson Hawk"?

Ding, ding! We have a winner!

Now the big question - did you know the answer, or did you have to look it up? :)

10 demerits for watching Hudson Hawk :D.

Hehe... Back then, we (myself and three housemates) had the theater Hudson Hawk poster proudly displayed in the living room. The poster hangs to this day at my friend's place in Massillon, and we routinely spout off quotes from the movie to each other.

It's a pretty dumb movie, the ratings sucked, but hey - it's fun... :)

9 of 10 demerits accepted without appeal.

The gas isn't field-replaceable, of course. But I've got to wonder whether there's a better mixture of phosphors and gases that can produce an equivalent fluorescence with longer UV wavelengths, which might have less of a tendency to eat the phosphors.

I've been wondering for a while how accurate the recent reports of permanent plasma burn-in are. I bought a 50" Panasonic plasma last May. A month or two later, I was looking at a blank screen and noticed ghostly boxes that likened themselves to the DVR/channel guide screens - not good. After freaking out about my new TV getting damaged so quickly, I tried a little experiment. Turned the TV off for a while (maybe 15-20 minutes?), turned off the cable box, and turned the TV back on. Up came a blank screen with no boxes. (Input set to component, not HDMI, so it was indeed "showing" a blank screen.) Turned on the cable box and brought up the channel guide. Let it sit for a few minutes, then turned the cable box off - the boxes showed up again. Repeated a few times, and always had the same result.

Dunno - maybe there's some sort of temporary burn-in/memory with the newer plasmas that "resets" itself after being turned off for a while? If so, it's annoying, but far better than permanent damage. I'll need to dig into this further...

I've been wondering for a while how accurate the recent reports of permanent plasma burn-in are. I bought a 50" Panasonic plasma last May. A month or two later, I was looking at a blank screen and noticed ghostly boxes that likened themselves to the DVR/channel guide screens - not good. After freaking out about my new TV getting damaged so quickly, I tried a little experiment. Turned the TV off for a while (maybe 15-20 minutes?), turned off the cable box, and turned the TV back on. Up came a blank screen with no boxes. (Input set to component, not HDMI, so it was indeed "showing" a blank screen.) Turned on the cable box and brought up the channel guide. Let it sit for a few minutes, then turned the cable box off - the boxes showed up again. Repeated a few times, and always had the same result.

Dunno - maybe there's some sort of temporary burn-in/memory with the newer plasmas that "resets" itself after being turned off for a while? If so, it's annoying, but far better than permanent damage. I'll need to dig into this further...

What you are referring to is Image Retention, not Burn In. You described it quite well, it's a very temporary left over image, usually most noticeable when making drastic color changes on the screen (i.e. white to black scene, vise versa). Nothing to worry about and can be negated (though not fixed) by keeping your brightness levels down.

Toby, how old are your plasmas? I've been hearing claims that they've improved the burn-in issue in the last couple of years, but I don't know if that's actually true. The orbiting feature helps somewhat, but I'm hoping they'll come up with improvements in the phosphor and gas mixture also.

I have two 42" plasmas, Panny & NEC, both about two years old. The NEC is the main tv in the house and is run constantly! The NEC is the main Burn In culprit due to it's heavy usage. The Panny only sees maybe 25% of the usage of the NEC. Both render very nice images and each model has it's advantages & disadvantages.

My NEC Burn In is completely undetectable for probably 90+% of tv viewing (and you bet I'm looking for it). But it is noticeable with a white or light blue background image, like a sky shot.

I'm sure the Burn In is much less a factor now than 10 years ago, but it is still an issue. The orbiter can help, but like any feature that plays with the image it also alters or softens the image.

As far as future plasma improvements, I seriously doubt plasmas will even be manufactured 10 years from now as LCD's are closing the gap (and in many cases have surpassed) in overall PQ. I am by no means an industry insider, it's just a hunch. :)

Don't get me wrong, I knew damn well what I was getting into with plasmas and I'm still thrilled with my purchases. If I were buying today I'd most likely go LCD. Two years ago, comparing features & overall PQ, the LCD's were lagging in the same size & price point. Completely different story today.

Hook - "refilling the gas" on plasmas is one of those urban myths that got spread around thanks to the internet - there's no truth in that whatsoever. Anybody that is spouting that garbage on TV these days is seriously misinformed.



I don't exactly remember what I was watching when I saw that but I kind of think it may have been either Fox News 8 or a Saturday "Today" show. Anyway I would accept your explanation before I would those people. Thanks for informing me.:)

I don't exactly remember what I was watching when I saw that but I kind of think it may have been either Fox News 8 or a Saturday "Today" show. Anyway I would accept your explanation before I would those people. Thanks for informing me.:)

I've seen some rather poor examples of technology "reporting" in some places, even occasionally on a national news story. It's as if the reporter walked into a Best Buy, looked at a few sets, chatted with some folks there and then wrote the report based solely upon the input gathered there. Fluff news at it's worst.

If you're going to do a story on CE technology, do some research into what makes the stuff work, then report on the specific implementations rather than making bland generalizations.

Anyone lose their HD channels today???:eek::mad::(:confused:
Right when the Browns were starting...
Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.
Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.
Still no digitals or HD.
What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.
So right now I'm stuck with SD.
I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.

Anyone lose their HD channels today???:eek::mad::(:confused:
Right when the Browns were starting...
Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.
Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.
Still no digitals or HD.
What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.
So right now I'm stuck with SD.
I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.

No problems here watching Browns via TW on my S3.

Matter of fact the blizzard outside my picture windows looks just like on TV.:)

Actually I credit CBS for doing a pretty darn good job so far considering the weather.

How about that safety! I've never seen that before.

Anyone lose their HD channels today???:eek::mad::(:confused:
Right when the Browns were starting...
Everything went to snow, EVERYTHING.
Then color bars on all channels. Then SD is back on.
Still no digitals or HD.
What's really weird is that there are a few of those stupid "preview" channels on, AND WVIZ-HD is there... really weird.
So right now I'm stuck with SD.
I'm watching TimeWarner via QAM in Canton.

It's gotta be a localized outage. It's fine up north via TWC.

The safety was awesome, BUT DID YOU JUST SEE THAT FG?!?!?!?!?!
HOLY SHOOT!!!! 49 YARDS IN A FREAKIN BLIZZARD!!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I knew damn well what I was getting into with plasmas and I'm still thrilled with my purchases. If I were buying today I'd most likely go LCD. Two years ago, comparing features & overall PQ, the LCD's were lagging in the same size & price point. Completely different story today.

Thanks, Toby. You make a good point - your purchase represented a good value to you at that time, and I'm glad to hear that you're still enjoying your sets. It's just like anything else in technology.

Way back when I was in school, I bought the Texas Instruments SR-10 calculator for $75. It was the first calculator that could do square roots, and that was a BIG deal for me in electronics school since I was constantly doing square roots for impedance calculations. And $75 was a lot more money back then! These days you can get a calculator that runs on light and does rings around the SR-10 for $3 . Still, that purchase represented a huge value to me at the time since I hated using a slide rule to get my work done.

BTW I still have that calculator. I wish they still made calculators with those big clicky keys. The tactile feedback was great. :)

Snowing here, and getting Browns/Bills with no problem on WOIO-DT/Time Warner Cable... former Adelphia division.

Snowing here, and getting Browns/Bills with no problem on WOIO-DT/Time Warner Cable... former Adelphia division.

Of course I AM seeing a lot of snow in the picture! Oh wait, it's on the field. :rolleyes:

I was getting alot of static from my rear speakers throughout the Browns game. The moment they switched to the Pittsburgh game the sound was crystal clear. Anybody else notice this?

I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.

I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.

They also gave up on the virtual graphics on the field. I'm guessing that they were unable to calibrate the camera heads to the computers with all that snow.

I was watching it on Sunday Ticket and got the static too, so I suspect the problem was onsite.

Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.

Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.

I might be wrong, but I think he spends a chunk of the winter in Florida.

This game reminds me of a Browns game up here when I was visiting Florida, and the snow was just as bad. I listened to the Browns call via satellite radio, and the weather was in the 70's!

They also gave up on the virtual graphics on the field. I'm guessing that they were unable to calibrate the camera heads to the computers with all that snow.

I didn't realize that until you posted. Goes to show really how unnecessary all those graphics are.

Then again, my wife and I use to go to a Bob Evens every Sunday for breakfast. They completely remodeld the place and I didn't notice a thing.

I'm not very observant.:o

I might be wrong, but I think he spends a chunk of the winter in Florida.

This game reminds me of a Browns game up here when I was visiting Florida, and the snow was just as bad. I listened to the Browns call via satellite radio, and the weather was in the 70's!

Well, it's 70 degrees in my house too. And I didn't pay parking or anything.

I liked it when that one dude on the Bills got close to the dog pound and someone nailed him on the helmet with a snow ball.:)

Glad to hear it just wasn't me. Just curious, why were you watching on Sunday Ticket? Are you out of the area right now? I would think there would be a blackout rule for Sunday Ticket.

Same rear static/crackling here with OTA. Definitely a source problem. Of course the commercials were fine on rears! :p It amazes me that when they are obviously having microphone or audio problems on the field why they just don't turn them OFF instead of broadcasting garbage! The snow blowers on the field were annoying!

I'll take a good 2.1 over a bad 5.1 any day! ;)

What you are referring to is Image Retention, not Burn In. You described it quite well, it's a very temporary left over image, usually most noticeable when making drastic color changes on the screen (i.e. white to black scene, vise versa). Nothing to worry about and can be negated (though not fixed) by keeping your brightness levels down.

Very cool - glad to know I was freaking out over nothing. :) Shortly after I got my plasma, I turned the picture and brightness settings way down to something like -16 and -8, respectively. It took a few days to get used to the darker screen, but it's perfectly comfortable to watch now. (I'm still amazed every Monday with the vivid colors on CSI Miami.)

My cable went out in Solon with 1:34 left to play! Fortunately the radio receiver still worked! Evidently there was a power outage somewhere (I think a car creamed a pole) as when I was going down to Hudson after the game, many of the lights on S.O.M. were in failsoft (flashing yellow). When I returned a few hours later, all was well...

I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.
JJK

I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.
JJK

I watched the home game and I didn't notice that (see above for how observant I am). I did notice they talked about the weather during the half time show cutting out part of that but who the heck cares about that?

My cable went out in Solon with 1:34 left to play! Fortunately the radio receiver still worked! Evidently there was a power outage somewhere (I think a car creamed a pole) as when I was going down to Hudson after the game, many of the lights on S.O.M. were in failsoft (flashing yellow). When I returned a few hours later, all was well...

Yeah, I was at the newly opened Scorchers in Twinsburg to watch the game and the power went out early in the 4th quarter. The bad thing was that we had to wait for the power to go back on to cash out since all of our tabs were stored electronically in their computers! Once the power came back on, the owner of Scorchers was having a hell of a time trying to get everything back up and running. After I cashed out I listened to the remainder of the game in the car to the tune of Donovan/Dieken, while I braved the storm on my way back home....

*Future note: All bar owners need to keep a battery powered AM/FM stereo on hand in case of a sudden power outage during a big sporting event. When the power went out during the Browns game at Scorchers, the crowded bar's silence was deafening. People resorted to their web enabled cell phones/i-phones to provide game updates to the remaining crowd....

Same rear static/crackling here with OTA. Definitely a source problem. Of course the commercials were fine on rears! :p It amazes me that when they are obviously having microphone or audio problems on the field why they just don't turn them OFF instead of broadcasting garbage! The snow blowers on the field were annoying!
I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.

I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...

I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.

I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...

When the crowd roared it seemed just like loud static to me, which made me question if it was my audio system or not. However as someone else pointed out commercials came in just fine in the rear speakers.

Interesting that they don't black out home games. I'll bet if WOIO gets word of that they would get p.o.'d as they do have local commercials during the game.

But don't worry, your secret is safe with me. It's the rest of the internet you've got to worry about.:D

I had presumed folks were talking about the snow blowers as the source of the static. The snow blowers were running all the time and miked too hot - I presume that was unavoidable beyond shutting down the parabolics and just not doing any game/crowd noise at all - which resulted in a loud static roar in the rears for much of the game, but that was the sound on the field from the snow blowers.

I was watching on NFL Sunday Ticket as this year they haven't been blacking out the HD games at all & it's just easier for channel flipping during commercials. Plus Sunday Ticket never downrezzes to SD to tell us it's snowing! Like we couldn't figure that out from the pics of the home game or anything...

Well, my ears are not what they used to be (too many AC/DC, Rush and Michael Stanley concerts in my misspent youth), but on my 5.1 system I'm pretty sure I was getting static/crackling in the rears, plus the snow blowers.

I just don't get why with *any* broadcast, especially a live broadcast, they don't have someone listening to the actual received audio feed and calling in problems. Why bother sending out 5.1 when the rears are not functioning? Why not turn off the parabolics when the needed snow blowers are obnoxiously loud and the rears are not functioning properly anyway. :confused:

There may well be simple technical reasons why they cannot do this. But as I said, I'd much prefer to get a good (or better) 2.1 or simplistic analog audio feed than a botched (or weather related) problematic 5.1 feed. :)

I was fuming at the half on local channel 19.1 OTA for busting the national feed to tell me that it was snowing. These people are idiots.
JJK

That's why I watch WKBN-DT instead (as a bonus I got to see the FOX game that was not being shown on WJW during the commercial breaks) :D

I almost watched WOIO instead because the last part of the pregame on WKBN went SD (WKBN lost the HD feed, there was a "lost signal" message being broadcast. They probably had to dust off their satellite dish. Fortunately the game popped up in HD just in time).

The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer will be HD for the first time this Monday night. It looks like my only option for recording this via D* is going OTA on WNEO channel 49-2 ? The D* channel "CL49" is always SD, correct?

It looks like 49-2 is mostly SD programming, and 49-1 carries the PBS HD "loop". While the Newshour is running on 49-2, there will be HD programming running on 49-1 at the same time. I'm curious to see what the PQ will look like.

(Don't even bother mentioning WVIZ, they are useless)Don't bother trying to get HD on 49-2. All subchannels beyond "-1" are SD all the time. If "NewsHour" is going HD it has to be scheduled to appear on PBS HD.

Yeah, I was at the newly opened Scorchers in Twinsburg to watch the game and the power went out early in the 4th quarter. The bad thing was that we had to wait for the power to go back on to cash out since all of our tabs were stored electronically in their computers! Once the power came back on, the owner of Scorchers was having a hell of a time trying to get everything back up and running. After I cashed out I listened to the remainder of the game in the car to the tune of Donovan/Dieken, while I braved the storm on my way back home....

*Future note: All bar owners need to keep a battery powered AM/FM stereo on hand in case of a sudden power outage during a big sporting event. When the power went out during the Browns game at Scorchers, the crowded bar's silence was deafening. People resorted to their web enabled cell phones/i-phones to provide game updates to the remaining crowd....


OK, I have to admit I'm curious. I can understand going to a bar and the crowd and all that. I know how fun that makes things. But you knew or at least you should have known a major storm was on it's way. You've got HDTV at home. The price of beer is cheap.:)

So if you can explain the logic of going out to see that game I'd sure like to hear it!

And driving home? From a bar? In a blizzard? Sounds like something I would do when I was younger and I'm not saying you were intoxicated because I wasn't there but just all that risk.:confused:

And for what it's worth you couldn't get me out to the game even if I had front row seats on the 50 yard line in that weather!

OK, I have to admit I'm curious. I can understand going to a bar and the crowd and all that. I know how fun that makes things. But you knew or at least you should have known a major storm was on it's way. You've got HDTV at home. The price of beer is cheap.:) So if you can explain the logic of going out to see that game I'd sure like to hear it!

I had plans to go to the game in person, but the plans fell through, so I felt obligated to enjoy the game in company of other Browns fans. Besides, that's what they make 4-wheel-drive for! ;) Trust me, I'm from Lyndhurst, driving in snow is second nature. Slow and steady always does it for me....

And driving home? From a bar? In a blizzard? Sounds like something I would do when I was younger and I'm not saying you were intoxicated because I wasn't there but just all that risk.:confused:

2 beers the first half and plenty of coffee all second half. No risk whatsoever. Thanks for the concern though Pops....

And for what it's worth you couldn't get me out to the game even if I had front row seats on the 50 yard line in that weather! That's why LA/Oakland can't seem to keep a steady Football team in their town. Californian's just don't understand. Somehow, it seems that us die-hard fans in the Midwest tend to think differently about that last statement. I would've gone to that game in a heartbeat......

HDMM:
I didn't think Scorchers would be open that quickly. Is that the one next to Gander Mountain?
JJK

HDMM:
I didn't think Scorchers would be open that quickly. Is that the one next to Gander Mountain?
JJK

Nope, that's Moose O'Malley's I believe. Scorchers is located behind the National City Bank where a Chinese restaurant used to be. From what I've been told, it just opened last Thursday.

Besides, that's what they make 4-wheel-drive for! ;) Trust me, I'm from Lyndhurst, driving in snow is second nature. Slow and steady always does it for me....

One of my life goals is complete - I've found a 4x4 owner who understands the concept of "slow and steady"!!! :)

I was driving from Cuyahoga Falls to Hudson on SR 8 Saturday night. Road conditions were pretty horrible, and the average speed was around 30-35 MPH. Some idiot in a big truck went flying past us at probably 65-70. I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I caught up to him a few miles down the road - he spun out and ended up stuck in the median.... :D

4x4 might have better traction in terms of translating power from the transmission through the drive wheels to the road surface, but it doesn't help a bit when you slam on the brakes.

(End of rant.)

Did anyone else with TW have issues with ESPN HD last evening during Monday Night Football? I had to watch the SD feed because the HD channel was a black screen. :mad:

When I called a CSR to see if they could fix the issue the girl was so rude. I am about this I-----I close to switching to DTV.

Did anyone else with TW have issues with ESPN HD last evening during Monday Night Football? I had to watch the SD feed because the HD channel was a black screen. :mad:

When I called a CSR to see if they could fix the issue the girl was so rude. I am about this I-----I close to switching to DTV.

Sorry, I don't watch MNF but I would highly recommend that if the CSR was rude to you that you send an email to TW with your account number or phone number and the time you called. I would have to say that TW CSR's have never been rude to me. And my experience with their knowledge runs on a scale of 10 from 2 to 9.

It just occurred to me that those of us who are opposed to the writers strike have generally vented our frustration at the writers. Truth be known for anyone who has followed this story it is in fact the producers who are not coming back to the bargaining table.

This presents an interesting scenario. Here we have a group of fat cats (writers) who are whining and crying for more money. But what about these producers? What is their take on DVD, internet, etc. Does anyone know these facts?

It seems to me that the producers are the obese cats and the writers are the fat cats. True, both make a great deal of money but to end this strike the producers have to come back to the table.

I still don't like the strike and have no sympathy for either sides, however I do think that if the producers truly want to end this they will have to open their obese wallets and share the wealth with the already fat cats.

In the meantime we, as consumers, will continue to screwed.

Comments and observations are repectfully requested.

One of my life goals is complete - I've found a 4x4 owner who understands the concept of "slow and steady"!!! :)

I was driving from Cuyahoga Falls to Hudson on SR 8 Saturday night. Road conditions were pretty horrible, and the average speed was around 30-35 MPH. Some idiot in a big truck went flying past us at probably 65-70. I felt a great sense of satisfaction when I caught up to him a few miles down the road - he spun out and ended up stuck in the median.... :D

4x4 might have better traction in terms of translating power from the transmission through the drive wheels to the road surface, but it doesn't help a bit when you slam on the brakes.

(End of rant.)

Completely agree. A lot of times, 4x4 creates a false sense of security. I still drive like an old man in the snow as a precaution. It's common that I am passed by small Aveo's or Prius' in the snow. :cool:

Cleveland HD List updated as at&t U-Verse added 8 additional HD channels (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/17/atandt-announces-eight-new-hd-channels-on-u-verse/).

This addition brings U-Verse's HD count to 35.

See updated list: here. (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pI9yd6lJxEOtgyXz6BaZTeg)

Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.
JJK

Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.
JJK

nice :D

Question for Mr. PBS4549 -

The NewsHour was not HD last night on 49-2. Looked like SD stretch. I'm curious to know why.

It looks like WVIZ isn't bothering to carry this on any of their THREE subchannels. :rolleyes:

My wife and I were channel surfing and came on this last night. For the first minute or so, I thought this was a special behind the scenes look at how they put together their news broadcasts. Then, I realized that it was in real time. Then, I realized that someone must of hit the wrong button, instead of some stop action Christmas special, we were seeing the actual news show prep. My wife and I kept waiting for someone let fly with profanity, flip a bird, or shoot a moon or something. Finally, we heard off screen voices say:

We just got a call that we are live.

No we're not.

We just got another call that we are live.

Someone must be playing a joke.

Everyone watch your language, we are live.

Cut to some hastily done Dallas Cowboy wallpaper screen.

Cut to stop action Christmas special.

Funny to be caught like this. Interesting how they shoot their spots, though.

Last night while watching channel 43.1 OTA the channel 19 news people accidently hit the wrong button and broadcast the anchors practicing their delivery's and fiddling with their impeccably clad bodies not knowing they were "live". The button pusher is probably fired. Then again maybe they promoted the rascal.
JJK

What time did this happen?

I don't remember exactly but I think it was between 9 and 10:00.
JJK

We're they cussing and stuff? Details, my man, I want details.:)

I turned it on at 10:00 so I missed it.

Leno and Conan returning to Late Night TV, sans writers.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22299420/

Interesting that they don't black out home games. I'll bet if WOIO gets word of that they would get p.o.'d as they do have local commercials during the game.
It is only the HD feeds that aren't blacked out this year. The past couple years they were erratic on blacking out in HD - lots of games the first half would be in the clear & the 2nd half blacked out, some were blacked out always, some never. There were times it was incredibly annoying when the Browns played a long game which was overruning the 4PM game that you wanted to watch & it was blacked out, although you couldn't actually watch it anywhere. I missed the first quarter of the Bengals-Colts game last year due to this. I definitely appreciate the no HD black out this year, whether its intentional or not.

The SD feeds are always blacked out correctly (although I seldom bother to watch the SD feeds unless I really care about the game).

Overall I find the local commercial argument odd as I NEVER watch commercials during Sunday Ticket. Heck I've got 3 to 8 other games I can watch now, why watch a commercial? Even if I care deeply about the game in question, I'll flip to another channel for a few minutes & then slide back. If there's no singular game I'm focussing on, I'll flip constantly or just watch the Red Zone Channel which flips for me...

Everything that I posted above is the details. No smoking guns, no one caught with their flies open or pants down.

Sorry.

We're they cussing and stuff? Details, my man, I want details.:)

I turned it on at 10:00 so I missed it.

Everything that I posted above is the details. No smoking guns, no one caught with their flies open or pants down.

Sorry.

If I actually took the time to read your very detailed post I wouldn't have had to ask the question.

That's why I'm the village idiot.:o

The weather girl was untying and tying her kind of belt/blouse ensomble and tydying up the lacy cleavage covering. I was all eyes but there was nothing to see.
JJK

I think I saw a nipple :D. (not really)

Question for Mr. PBS4549 -

The NewsHour was not HD last night on 49-2. Looked like SD stretch. I'm curious to know why.

It looks like WVIZ isn't bothering to carry this on any of their THREE subchannels. :rolleyes:

Feel free to correct, but 49-2 is not an HD station, it is SD. Since 49-1 is only the 'national' HD feed, I would doubt you will ever see this in HD unless it is carried on the national feed.

If I actually took the time to read your very detailed post I wouldn't have had to ask the question.

That's why I'm the village idiot.:o

Aren't you the guy that yells at everyone for not searching the threads before they ask what kind of antenna to get for station Wxxx? Looks like you're human after all. ;) :D

Aren't you the guy that yells at everyone for not searching the threads before they ask what kind of antenna to get for station Wxxx? Looks like you're human after all. ;) :D

While it is true that I have in the past requested that people do a search, I don't think I ever yelled at them. I've come to realize that for many people it is much simpler to just ask a question. Since I really don't know anything about OTA I usually don't get involved with that at all. The other day however I did answer a question for someone and referred them to Jim West and I gave them a link to contact him as he is highly recommended by others in the forum.

I always enjoy when someone agrees with me so thank you for affirming the fact that I am the village idiot. I will probably say something really stupid again in the near future.;)

While it is true that I have in the past requested that people do a search, I don't think I ever yelled at them. I've come to realize that for many people it is much simpler to just ask a question. Since I really don't know anything about OTA I usually don't get involved with that at all. The other day however I did answer a question for someone and referred them to Jim West and I gave them a link to contact him as he is highly recommended by others in the forum.

I always enjoy when someone agrees with me so thank you for affirming the fact that I am the village idiot. I will probably say something really stupid again in the near future.;)

Village idiot? NO Way!!! Your vast knowledge is appreciated and often entertaining. BTW, it was on your recommendation that I went with VOnage at home.

Man, you watch them? I usually turn them off at 11 after that fast-paced montage of upcoming stories. BTW, the 11pm show had a messed up beginning. Instead of showing the video of the anchors with the title on screen, there was a white screen with black titles on it. Darn, I didn't get to see Sharon's "beautiful" face! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

:D:DLOL! I couldn't even type that with a straight face! :D:D:)

I rate FOX 8 as the top news for it's HD quality. I like WKYZ and WEWS for actual news content. But I watch 19's action news at 10:00 because I like a little humor before I go to bed.;)

The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i), then 5.1 which is very soft and low contrast with stretcho vision. I don't know what 5.1 is up too but it ain't very good.
JJK

Feel free to correct, but 49-2 is not an HD station, it is SD. Since 49-1 is only the 'national' HD feed, I would doubt you will ever see this in HD unless it is carried on the national feed.

I was supposing with the wonders of digital transmission that they could "flip the switch" to 1080i for an hour on 49-2, then flip it back to 480p for the SD programming. But that would probably a) cost millions of dollars and/or b) blow up everybody's TV tuner. :D

The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i), then 5.1 which is very soft and low contrast with stretcho vision. I don't know what 5.1 is up too but it ain't very good.
JJK
WEWS-DT newscasts suffers from a black-level problem. Every time there is a dark scene (especially the live outdoor scenes at night) the blacks posterize terribly. I can't believe they let this go out day after day without trying to fix it. It's as if the engineers think nothing is wrong or nobody is actually watching.

Last night there were two blaring examples: the 60th anniversary coverage where they showed old film of the early days at WEWS. Yes the film is old, but it really looked worse digitized. The second example was the counterfit Elmo story. The black background was a posterized mess.

It appears to me that this black level problem is caused by keying video on top of video. This affect is similar to when chroma key is used and a shadow is cast on the green screen causing a distortion of the "projected" video picture.

Does anybody else see this problem?

I see a very soft HD picture jumping back & forth between the correct aspect and strechovision. I don't watch it unless there is a football game which is always sharper than their live local news. 55 and 43 are pretty good but not as good as 3, 8, 19, and 49.
JJK

The best HD quality live news OTA that I get is 3.1 (1080i), then 19.1 (1080i), then 8.1 (720P), then 43.1, ?, then PBS 49.1 (1080i)

Unless I missed something, the folks at PBS 45/49 don't do news. Well, unless you count the "Newsnight Akron" Friday newsmagazine show, which is assuredly only in SD...

The other post is right...5 stopped "stretchovision" in their local news a while back. The downconverted HD to SD video from the field looks funny for some reason, but only on the SD end of the conversion.

Unless I missed something, the folks at PBS 45/49 don't do news. Well, unless you count the "Newsnight Akron" Friday newsmagazine show, which is assuredly only in SD...

The other post is right...5 stopped "stretchovision" in their local news a while back. The downconverted HD to SD video from the field looks funny for some reason, but only on the SD end of the conversion.

Maybe he's talking about The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which was supposed to go HD on Monday? Can anyone who receives PBS-HD (49-1), please confirm that Newshour is indeed in HD now? I am patiently waiting until D* adds it to their local package as OTA isn't an option for me....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12462901&postcount=10643

When I was speaking of PBS 49 I failed to mention that they do not have news but the general quality of their transmissions. I have no problem with sound on 19.1, but on 3.1 the sound is probably about 10 db low. I have not viewed 5.1 for a while but when I do the live news picture is soft with not enough contrast. By live shots I assume you mean off-site (no control room) which I do not consider worthy of High-Definition. Most of these shots have about 10 to 20 facial image lines trailing the face if you look hard enough. The traffic camera shots can be from terrible to excellent, but excellent rarely. I also hate 5.1 showing 2.35 x 1 movies in 16 x 9 zoom. I absolutely hate it when they do that, losing 50% of the picture. I avoid ABC like the plague. 43.1 is famous for that also.
JJK

Maybe he's talking about The Newshour with Jim Lehrer, which was supposed to go HD on Monday? Can anyone who receives PBS-HD (49-1), please confirm that Newshour is indeed in HD now? I am patiently waiting until D* adds it to their local package as OTA isn't an option for me....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12462901&postcount=10643

HD MM, if you look back up a few posts, you'll see me mentioning that 49-2 did NOT have The Newshour in HD. It is SD. The national loop (HD) on 49-1 does not have it at all.

The current Newshour discussion thread is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954137

HD MM, if you look back up a few posts, you'll see me mentioning that 49-2 did NOT have The Newshour in HD. It is SD. The national loop (HD) on 49-1 does not have it at all.

The current Newshour discussion thread is here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954137

What about WVIZ 25.1?

What about WVIZ 25.1?

They don't have the Newshour scheduled on any of their three digital subchannels. Only on the analog channel. Which brings up the point why in the world aren't they simulcasting their analog programming on one of their digital subs yet? So much for their digital transition, eh ?

http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index.html?display_feed=2495&display_format=multifeed&station=WVIZ&zipcode=&transport=&provider=&feeds=2495%2C14128%2C16671%2C19618&display_date=2007-12-19&display_time=6%3A00pm

They don't have the Newshour scheduled on any of their three digital subchannels. Only on the analog channel. Which brings up the point why in the world aren't they simulcasting their analog programming on one of their digital subs yet? So much for their digital transition, eh ?

http://www.pbs.org/tvschedules/index.html?display_feed=2495&display_format=multifeed&station=WVIZ&zipcode=&transport=&provider=&feeds=2495%2C14128%2C16671%2C19618&display_date=2007-12-19&display_time=6%3A00pm

Wow. I wasn't aware of this. PBS clearly has issues.....

I'm switching some AVR inputs around and testing/comparing some different DD & PL settings with different feeds (OTA & cable).

Can anyone recommend a couple of the better OTA 5.1 network prime-time shows with exceptional (or the least botched/bastardized) 5.1 output?

Many thanks :)

Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?

Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?

you seem to be in the wrong forum, this is the TIme warner in cleveland hasnt added any hd in 2 years forum...we dont want to hear about your wonderful HD :) actually that is awesome that they have added those, I have dish network and they have quite a few HD channels but for some reason (dish launches delayed I believe) have totally stopped adding HD..I am hoping Digiblurs uplink report at satguys brings me better news, but again congrats thats a pretty darn good lineup!

Is anyone else on Armstrong in Medina? Can you believe the amount of HD they have added in the past month! TLC, History, TDC, AMC, CNN, A&E, Outdoor, Animal Planet, Science with Food, HGTV, SciFi, USA and Speed on the way! These guys are definitely keeping my business! I also heard there's a ZOOM 500 Speed update coming soon too..... 8Mb/1Mb. Anyone hear anything else?

Bragger.:p

All of a sudden(yesterday) I'm able to receive 3-1 and 3-2 on the DirecTv HR20. Anyone else with an HR20-100 having success?