I tried to watch some the US open Golf this weekend on WKYC digital. I was again reminded that WKYC Cleveland is potentially the worst excuse for a local HDTV broadcasting station in the world. The continuous drop outs made the broadcast unwatchable for me. Fortunate the broadcast was not in HD so I could settle for the soft picture via my dish..

If you can find some time please join me in calling or E-mailing WKYC about this lame excuse of a transmission. I would be embarrassed to work in the engineering department of this station.

Here is some contact info that may be out of date.

WKYC, analog 3, D-2, NBC
general 216-344-3333
newsroom 216-344-3300
Rex Rickly, chief engineer 216-344-3353
Donna Cropf, Programming 216-344-3559

Thanks for any support,

Ray

I read a post on another forum from someone who is usually "in the know" about local Adelphia activity (and has always been right). Supposedly there are announcements coming shortly about more channels as well as the HD DVR. (rumor has it about $4.95 a month additional, based on some reports)

I talked to a repairman recently who stated that it is his understanding that ESPN-HD will be an "a la carte" channel, meaning an extra charge for it. I definitely know that ESPN is one of the most expensive basic cable channels, so I wouldn't be surprised about this.

Frankly, I'm willing to pay extra based on content, i.e., inHD, which has some awsome programming, if you've ever checked out their website.

Adelphia update!!!!!

On July 15th, Adelphia ( GREATER CLEVELAND MARKET) will restructure their HD packages. The SA3250Hd will remain at $7.95 per month but will only includes the local channels. (ABC and NBC). As I hear something about FOX and CBS I will definitly let you know as football season is fast approaching.

On July 15th, they will introduce their HD Plus tier which will include
ESPN HD
IN HD
IN HD2
HDNet
HDNET Movies
Cost of this package is $5.00 per month.

On August 1st, for current HD subscribers, HDNet & HDMovies will move from FREE to the the PLUS tier.

Adelphia now has 4 premium movie channels. Cinemax will be launched on the 15th also. (Subscription required)

Bottom line is for $12.95 you get
ABC
NBC
HBO
SHOWTIME
CINEMAX
STARZ
ESPN HD
INHD1
INHD2
HDNET
HDNET MOVIES

Just to clairify, HBO, Showtime, Cinemx & Starz HD requires separate subscriptions to their non-HD counterpart I'd think. No way are they giving those channels included in the price for $12.95 (nobody else does). Also, the $7.95 for the box can replace the money already being paid for the digital cable box so it's not 'over & above' the money you pay for your current cable box. In other words, if you are paying $4.95 for digital box, (or whatever the digital box costs), the HD version costs $7.95 instead. Not sure of the exact costs so don't quote me on those but that's the general idea. Hope that helps. Now if they get Fox, CBS, Discovery-HD, & TNT-HD we'd be all set and I could say goodbye to Dish. ha! On the plus side, for an extra $5 I'll get In-HD1 and In-HD2. We'll see if the wife goes for that one! :) At that point with Dish & Adelphia, Adelphia would give me Starz-HD and the In-HD's which aren't on Dish & Dish would give me Discovery-HD & TNT-HD which are't on Adelphia (plus CBS & Fox via OTA with Dish). I get the movie channels from Adelphia as I was already getting those from them. I only pay about $8.00 per month for Dish HD package and what amounts to $9 for Adelphia (includes $5 for this package & another $4 above what I was already paying for the digital box.)

-Todd

I am guessing the answer is no, but do you guys know if you can just get the HD package for 12.95 or do you also have to get basic or digital cable as well?

Comcast in North Ridgeville area(N. Ridgeville, Elyria, Avon, Avon Lake) has a decent HD lineup, but the best thing is: It doesn't cost anything more to have HD Box and HD Programing than if you just had digital cable.

I have had the digital plus level of service for several years. When I added my HD Box and HD Programing, there was no increase in price for this service increase. I do expect a price increase at some point, but hey, I have gotten a sweet deal so far. My Motorola 6200 and HD quality has been awesome.

HD Channel lineup. Premiums require subscription to the premium channel.

ESPN-HD
INHD
INHD2
ABC-HD
NBC-HD
FOX-HD
HBO-HD
MAX-HD
SHO-HD
STARZ-HD

MrPorterhouse,

And it just keeps getting better. On Demand should be ready for start up by mid to late July, and Discovery HD is going to start around Aug 1st.

Ben Music

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
I am guessing the answer is no, but do you guys know if you can just get the HD package for 12.95 or do you also have to get basic or digital cable as well?

No. The HD-Package requires the digital package.

-Todd

Originally posted by Ben Music
MrPorterhouse,

And it just keeps getting better. On Demand should be ready for start up by mid to late July, and Discovery HD is going to start around Aug 1st.

Ben Music
I've been hounding Comcast about Discovery-HD, almost daily. I told them that I heard that Discovery-HD would be added on the 1st or 2nd of July. They replied back," Yes, Discovery-HD will be added to your channel lineup on or about the first week of July." SWEEEEEEET!

They didn't have any info about CBS-HD yet. Hopefully in time for the NFL season. But CBS-HD will only have one HD game per week anyway. FOX-HD will cover up to 6 HD games per week, ABC-HD will do MNF in HD, and ESPN-HD will do their SNF in HD. So that should be 3 or 4 HD games per week that we'll get to see in its entirety. CBS-HD can add one more. That's not bad at all. Then ESPN-HD will 9 HD football games to show on sportscenter each week. NICE!

CBS-HD also offers at least one college football game a week. In the past it was an SEC game.

Is the picture on WUAB-DT usually so dark, with a lack of contrast and color saturation? I have a DiSH 811 receiver for OTA reception and note that WUAB-DT is much darker etc than the received WUAB analog channel

Is it my equipment or the WUAB-DT transmission?

Tony I think the picture on WUAB is usually pretty weak. If all your other channels look good, then its definately just them.

When will customer service have this information so that we can sign up?

Thanks for the information!


Originally posted by handsworth
Adelphia update!!!!!

On July 15th, Adelphia ( GREATER CLEVELAND MARKET) will restructure their HD packages. The SA3250Hd will remain at $7.95 per month but will only includes the local channels. (ABC and NBC). As I hear something about FOX and CBS I will definitly let you know as football season is fast approaching.

On July 15th, they will introduce their HD Plus tier which will include
ESPN HD
IN HD
IN HD2
HDNet
HDNET Movies
Cost of this package is $5.00 per month.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Tony I think the picture on WUAB is usually pretty weak. If all your other channels look good, then its definately just them. Signal strength won't affect the brightness of a digital image in any way.

Originally posted by jtscherne
When will customer service have this information so that we can sign up?

Thanks for the information! I'm glad that someone's excited about it. Personally, I'm feeling a bit ripped off. I'm not at all convinced that those channels are worth an additional $5 a month - on top of the $7.95 that we're already paying.

All I know is that my cable bill is higher than its ever been even now - before they add these new charges. I'm not impressed with this new offering at all.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Signal strength won't affect the brightness of a digital image in any way.

A "Weak" picture as in, it sucks. Not that it has weak signal strength.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I'm glad that someone's excited about it. Personally, I'm feeling a bit ripped off. I'm not at all convinced that those channels are worth an additional $5 a month - on top of the $7.95 that we're already paying.

All I know is that my cable bill is higher than its ever been even now - before they add these new charges. I'm not impressed with this new offering at all.

I can understand how you feel for sure, but keep in mind that other services such as Dish Network & DirectTV which have been lauded for their HDTV, cost $10 per month and expensive hardware to buy, and neither give you all that much more for that price. We need to separate this particular HD offering from the over-all cost. One has nothing to do with the other. I'd be the 1st to complain about my cable bill right along side with you, but looking just at this HD offering, it's not so horrible. Dish Network offers TNTHD, Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, HDnet, HDnet Movies for $10 per month. DirectTV is similar for $10. Adelphia is $5 for Hdnet, HDnet Movies, In-HD, In-HD2, and ESPN-HD, which is 1/2 the cost of the other two. So each give you around 5 channels & cost $5-$10 with Adelphia at $5.

$7.95 per month is not an aditional fee keep in mind. If you had just plain digital cable, you'd be paying the same for the 1st box & about $4 for the 2nd box (approx.). So even if this is your 2nd box, It amounts to $4 more, plus the $5 for a total of $9 per month, with no hardware to buy. Now of course with Dish or Direct, if you are a new customer, you can get deals on the HD-box, but for current customers, to get the HD receiver your gonna pay $300-$500. They have programs for current customers, but not for those that have already received discounted hardware.

I totally respect your opinion, but from this point of view, to me it's not that bad. I know we all love to trash Adelphia as their customer service is horrible to say the least, but this isn't quite as bad as some make it to be at least in my eyes. PLEASE understand that this is my opinion so let's not start the flames again.

-Todd

Everyone here knows that I have had my Adelphia problems, but I do believe that the upcoming plan is fair, given the content. Of course, much of it will be of particular interest to the sports fan (ESPN and inHD, which shows HD baseball games and I think also showed football last fall). I'm hoping that Discovery HD will eventually appear in the mix with no raise in price, along with other cable HD networks (Bravo, TNT, etc.)

I think if they get the locals done (including WEAO when it goes HD in August), they'll have a package that is as good as anyone else's.

Been following this thread for a while, and thought a COX subscriber (Fairview Park) should chime in, so you have something to compare.

I've had Cox's HD setup for about a year now. When I first signed up I could only get 5 HD channels (HBO - I was already a subscriber)/CBS/ABC/UPN/ESPN). The package was free of extra charges, but they required me to shell out $350 for an HD box (they now rent the converter boxes for $10/month), and socked me $50 for the installation. .

Along about the first of the year they added 4 more (BRAVO/iNHD/iNHD2/and Discovery HD for $5 bucks extra). I opted to skip the $5 Discovery, although I've heard good things about it. But, by juggling some of my packages, I added Showtime HD (turned out to be a waste of time. Not much really in HD). And, they just recently added NBC.

So far, except for Discovery, there have been no charges for the HD package other than those mentioned above. BUT, I'm still waiting for Fox/PBS/TNT/HDNet/HDNet movies/etc. I have a sneaking suspicion that when those channels start to come online, the cash register will start to ring.

Cox has been a good provider. Their signal is strong, and I've had very few problems. Their customer service is satisfactory, although I've not had to use it much so I can't say for sure. They do, however, charge an arm and a leg (in my opinion). I also have their high speed internet service, and have been very satisfied.

Maybe it's just me, but the $5 you guys will have to pay for the extra channels doesn't sound too bad. Cox wants $5 for Discovery alone. I hope that when Cox adds the channels I mentioned, they only sock me $5.

My Channel Lineup

HBO HD
Showtime HD
WKYC/NBC HD (just added)
WOIO/CBS HD
WEWS/ABC HD
WUAB/UPN HD
Bravo HD+
ESPN HD
iNHD
iNHD2
Discovery HD Theater $4.95/mo (I don't pay, so I don't get it)

I've posted this before, but I'll chime in. I've got Comcast HD in North Ridgeville, OH(west of Cleveland). Right now, There are a total of 10 channels availible(4 premiums and 6 basic networks)

202 ESPN-HD
206 INHD
207 INHD2
210 ABC-HD
211 NBC-HD
213 FOX-HD
228 HBO-HD*
233 Max-HD*
238 Show-HD*
248 Starz-HD*
xxx Discovery-HD(to be added first week of July 2004)
* premium channels require subscription to their package

Notice there is no CBS-HD. Comcast is having difficulty negotiating their agreement to carry their HD channel. This is in its final stages and will be wrapped up by fall 2004. Quality of broadcasts has been excellent. HD programs look amazing, as expected. And even the SD material on these channels that is upconverted looks great. The SD material looks leaps and bounds better than on the analog channel, especially FOX. INHD and INHD2 are the most amazing HD that I have ever seen, PERIOD. The programming on these channels rotates, and varies widely in subject from sports(awesome) to concerts to nature shows(Discovery-type) to movies.

I have been satisfied with this lineup, especially considering that I don't pay anything extra to have HD(No HD box rental fee, No HD monthly program fee). I'm sure this will change in the near future, but even a $10/month its a great value and well worth it to me.

Originally posted by MrPorterhouse
INHD and INHD2 are the most amazing HD that I have ever seen, PERIOD. The programming on these channels rotates, and varies widely in subject from sports(awesome) to concerts to nature shows(Discovery-type) to movies. Got to agree with this statement. Fabulous HD picture. Unfortunately they repeat a lot of programming over and over.

Baseball in HD on these channels is spectacular, but I wish they'd show an Indians game. The team is actually starting to be worth watching again.

They have some good concerts as well (Little Feat; Lynyrd Skynyrd; etc.), although, most often, the audio is only stereo and not Dolby Digital 5.1.

It is my belief (and hope) that as we go along, there will be more programming available, and the repeating will diminish some.

All in all, iNHD is off to a very good start.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
$7.95 per month is not an aditional fee keep in mind. If you had just plain digital cable, you'd be paying the same for the 1st box....

I totally respect your opinion, but from this point of view, to me it's not that bad. PLEASE understand that this is my opinion so let's not start the flames again.

That $7.95 sure looks like an extra fee to me. All I know is that when I swapped out my old box for the new HD one, they added a $7.95 charge to my bill where there was no charge before. I don't know what they charge for non-HD boxes now, but back at Christmas when I added the HD service, there was no charge at all for my old SD box.

Actually, the new box started at $3.95, then went to $7.95 after a couple of months. And that's exactly what they told me at the time - that I'd find an additional $7.95 added to my bill. So I think you're mistaken on that point.

No, I intend no flames, I just find Adelphia to be a bit higher in price than I think they should be. They offer decent HD service, but at a premium price. I suppose I'll pay it, but grudgingly. They'd just better get CBS, UPN, and WB added soon.

OK. I appreciate your effort not to flame me, but to end this debate, I called Adelphia to get the definative answer. I just got off the phone with a very helpful person who explained it to me (or better said verified what I said previously). There is a charge for the digital cable box regardless if you are seeing it or not. I can't tell you what you saw in your December bill, but it is there. I asked about in the past & the woman verified that there has always been a charge for the digital box rental and it's $3.50 for the 1st box and $6.50 for the 2nd ($3.50 plus $3 extra box fee). I made a typo and reversed the charges for the 1st and 2nd box, but it's obvious that I was saying the HD box is $4 more (which is what I said actually). On your bill, it may be listed as something else, but I assure you it's there. I'm reading off my JANUARY 2004 bill here:

Digital Add'l - $6.50
-Receivers at $3.25 each (it went up $0.25 since)
-Service Charge $3 each (each additional)

In my post I said approximately because I wasn't sure...I was close with $4 being the difference. So the 'new' charge of $7.95 is about $4.50 more than you were previously paying, which is about what I said.

So in the end...I was not mistaken. $7.95 for the HD instead of $3.50 for the digital box, for a difference of $4.45. Add that to $5 and you pay LESS for 5 channels on Adelphia than you do on Dish Network or DirectTV.

I think once you see this, you'll see that it's not a bad deal at all. And...when I got the HD box, mine was $3.95 at first then $7.95. I never even mentioned that so I don't know how I could be mistaken about it. Also, we forget that there isn't any expensive reciever to purchase. I dropped $400 on my dish receiver which is equivalent to over 50 months of Adelphia's hardware charge...all in one lump sum. Again, it's not that bad when you get a real handle on what the charges actually are.

-Todd

Dweezilz is quite correct. I assume that all of you with Adelphia cable aren't just watching analog channels on your expensive Hd televisions. I also assume that you have at least one digital box. So the total cost of your upgrade to Hd will only be $9.45. $4.45 for the equipment and $5.00 for the addtional programming.

Then again from one who knows :D When the new HD/DVR combo box is ready, it will be the same price ($7.95), however if you are a gold package subscriber or better (2+ premium movie channels), then your total cost for both services is still $9.45. Gold pak+ members get DVR service free. Can't think of anyone who can beat that.

As soon as I get another update about the combo box I will be sure to post it, but I hear they are waiting for another software upgrade to drive certain outputs like the IEEE1394 port.

It really doesn't matter how the charge is hidden. If the total bill was $100 before, and now its $107.95, then thats $7.95 no matter how you define it. He didn't flame you, he was just pointing out the fact that he pays extra for it.

HOLD ON Mr.Porterhouse...who said anything about him flaming me? You totally read that wrong!! He didn't flame me and I never said he did. In fact, in the first line of my post, I said I appreciated him trying not to flame which was COMPLIMENTING him as he said he intended no flame. I was thanking him, not scolding him! HA! It was worded in an ambigious why so I see how you thought I said that, but you misunderstood. Go back & re-read it including his last paragraph & you'll see nobody accused him of flaming. Can you tell I'm agrivated here? ha! It's just frustrating to post something & then have people completely either misinterpret or ignore what's been said. Sorry if this comes off harsh, but it's getting very old.

Also, this is not even a debateable thing unless somehow his bill is different than everyone elses, mine, & different from what Adelphia told me. The bill is NOT $7.95 more due to hardware. It's quite plain to see. You pay $3.50 for the digital box and $7.95 for HD box. When you remove the digital box, you remove the $3.50 and get $7.95 added. The difference is $4.45 n ot $7.95. I's simple math for goodness sakes. I don't know what else to say if people don't understand it. How much plainer can it be.

People need to carefully read before posting!! We need to get our facts more or less straight before complaining is all I'm saying. Mistakes can happen I realize so don't get me wrong in that respect, but I'm trying to explain the mistakes about the billing and cost so it's more palateable for everyone.

-Todd

Originally posted by handsworth
Dweezilz is quite correct. I assume that all of you with Adelphia cable aren't just watching analog channels on your expensive Hd televisions. I also assume that you have at least one digital box. So the total cost of your upgrade to Hd will only be $9.45. $4.45 for the equipment and $5.00 for the addtional programming.

Then again from one who knows :D When the new HD/DVR combo box is ready, it will be the same price ($7.95), however if you are a gold package subscriber or better (2+ premium movie channels), then your total cost for both services is still $9.45. Gold pak+ members get DVR service free. Can't think of anyone who can beat that.

As soon as I get another update about the combo box I will be sure to post it, but I hear they are waiting for another software upgrade to drive certain outputs like the IEEE1394 port.

Thanks for your post!! Someone understands what I was saying! At least there's one person in the world that understands me. HA! ;)

Dweezilz(Todd)
I don't intend to cause misunderstanding, or make matters worse. I understand your math and the price difference. I also understand the post that I was refering to by Jim Gilliland. His math showed a $7.95 difference(not a $7.95 charge), your math showed a $4.45 difference. I don't really care regardless, as I don't even have Adelphia. I fully understood your point, his point, and my point. You've obviously put in great effort to sort this out, and that is commendable and helps us all understand the big picture better. A trivial charge like that shouldn't matter anyway, as long as you get the HD programing that you want to view.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
So in the end...I was not mistaken. $7.95 for the HD instead of $3.50 for the digital box, for a difference of $4.45.

You are correct. I checked my earlier bill, and there is indeed a charge for the older digital box. Apparently Adelphia didn't understand this themselves when I first signed up for HD service back in December. So the difference is smaller than I thought it was.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
You are correct. I checked my earlier bill, and there is indeed a charge for the older digital box. Apparently Adelphia didn't understand this themselves when I first signed up for HD service back in December. So the difference is smaller than I thought it was.

No problem at all. :) I'm glad we straightened it out. It's very understandable as I've heard all sorts of wrong things from Adelphia people over the years. Wrong info, wrong prices, etc... The cable installer even told me a few months ago that HD wasn't much different than digital cable anyway! ha!! Dish is no better for CS. When I was trying to get the new Dish 811-hd reciever back in Dec., I must have been told 6 different stories why they failed to ship it to me after placing the order 3 different times. Then it turned out they wouldn't sell it to me stand-alone yet even though their website gave a stand-alone price! I had already sold & shipped my Dish 6000-HD receiver so I was beyond upset that Dish never delivered the 811. After two months without HD, I finally received it. I think it's that type of customer service in general...they often aren't even close to knowlegable enough to have the job!

Anyway, let's hope that WOIO-CBS and Adelphia (and others who don't carry CBS-HD) can work things out soon. For those who don't have Dish as an alternate like I do, remember you can always buy an OTA tuner for about $150-$200 on eBay should football season roll around (not to mention three CSI shows) & Adelphia still has no CBS-HD.

Take care.

-Todd

Speaking of WOIO, is WUAB showing Smallville and Enterprise in HD? The reason I ask is that means we need them too, and since they're owned by the same company as WOIO, hopefully they'll come in together to cable companies not currently offering them.

Star Trek and Smallville are shown in HD on WUAB. As I noted in a previous post , for me, the picture is dark, with little contrast and poor color saturation.

Have others noted this problem? I'd be interested in a reviews of the transmitted HDTV video quality on WKYC, WJW, WEWS, WOIO, WUAB, WNEO etc.

just to let everyone know people with comcast hd now have discovery hd theater. Its on channel 205 in my city. Might be different in other peoples cities.

I though smallville was on the WBNX, not WUAB?

You're absolutely right; it's on the WB, no UPN. My error...

Woops! There is another series broadcast in HD on WUAB, I thought it was Smallville, my mistake.

Yea, I got Discovery-HD this morning, channel 205, Comcast in North Ridgeville.

jake 2.0 was in HD on UPN but that show quickly got the axe.

Does anyone know for sure whether the splicer has been installed at WJW? The reason I'm asking is that I read elsewhere that any local Fox station that is totally HD ready will be showing the All Star game in HD. Since Fox was one of the few stations I was able to get with my OTA box, it would be worth pulling it out of mothballs for the game!

Originally posted by jtscherne
Does anyone know for sure whether the splicer has been installed at WJW? The reason I'm asking is that I read elsewhere that any local Fox station that is totally HD ready will be showing the All Star game in HD. Since Fox was one of the few stations I was able to get with my OTA box, it would be worth pulling it out of mothballs for the game! I've definitely seen some HD content coming from WJW. Nothing worth watching, mind you, but some of it has defintely been HD. In fact, TItanTV says that they'll be showing HD from 8 to 9 this evening.

However, TitanTV does not show an HD indicator for the All-Star game on 7/13. So I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Fox is still not HD, its 480 widescreen converted locally to 720p, thats what you saw.


As far as the splicer being installed, I am gonna take a stab in the dark and say yes. But thats just a stab in the dark so who knows.

Edit:

Although maybe not as it isnt listed in the Fox thread in the programming forum.

It's always nice to see the HD symbol light up on the info banner. I noticed when WJW 8-1 recently went HD (720p), the signal strength also became more steady and stronger.

It's also good to have more 720p material to compare with 1080i which will provide plenty of fuel for discussion... re: disagreement... ^_^

I was just gonna ask about WJW signal strength. I used to have a heck of a time trying to pick them up but it has been solid since they switched to upconvert their 480 widescreen material to 720p.

If only I could pick up WKYC. Also if only WBNX and WVIZ would get their acts together. But this is discussion for another day :)

I watched Bernie Mac last night on FOX specifically because titantv had listed in HD. And sure enough, it was in FULL HD GLORY. Comcast in North Ridgeville has got it coming in beautifully. If the All-Star game goes HD, I will be a happy man, and its looking like that is gonna happen.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
I was just gonna ask about WJW signal strength. I used to have a heck of a time trying to pick them up but it has been solid since they switched to upconvert their 480 widescreen material to 720p.

If only I could pick up WKYC.

Hi Mike,
What type of antenna are u using?

Tom I got a Big A$$ 172" Antenna in the back yard. Its overkill I know. I had a smaller one that picked up WKYC perfect all the time, but was weak with other stations. Now I can't pick up WKYC but everything else is money. Its no big deal, the last thing I was interested in watching on NBC was the Daytona 500. I absolutely cannot stand their stretch mode for 4:3 programming, and the ugliness of the pixelation because they multicast is very bothersome as well.

Another part of my problem is I am right next to Columbia road in Westlake, I'm on the first street just west, parallel to Columbia. But Columbia and the houses on it are elevated a good 20 feet above my houses elevation, and my antenna is not very high up.




MrPorterhouse. Read my post at the top of this page of this thread. Fox is not HD. They are upconverting their widescreen 480p material to 720p. The all star game may be in HD, but other than that, we get nothing in HD until August at the very earliest.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Tom I got a Big A$$ 172" Antenna in the back yard. Its overkill I know. I had a smaller one that picked up WKYC perfect all the time, but was weak with other stations. Now I can't pick up WKYC but everything else is money.



Wow, u got me beat. Mine's the 160" from RadioShack, their largest. I had to move the antenna off the back deck for a couple weeks for some home improvements and we really missed the doppler radar channel 3-3.

L8r, Tom

It's strange that for me, even when I can get in WKYC NBC 2.1 (I often can't get it in at all), when I try to tune in 2.3, I usually can't get the radar to stay on the screen for more than a few seconds. Anyone else have that issue? I wonder why 2.3 would be more difficult to pull in than the main channel? You'd figure if I could get 2.1, I'd be able to get 2.3 with the radar. Could they allocate different power levels?

-Todd

Todd,
Same issue here. I have a Dish 6000. When I tune in 2.3, the radar flashes for less than a second and then I see nothing. Then when I change the channel it flashes on again for less than a second.
Jeff

[i]

MrPorterhouse. Read my post at the top of this page of this thread. Fox is not HD. They are upconverting their widescreen 480p material to 720p. The all star game may be in HD, but other than that, we get nothing in HD until August at the very earliest. [/B]
Yes, that may be the case, but I really enjoy the upconvert. Its much like watching the HD movies on Cinemax-HD. Those movies are upconverted to 1080i and they look amazing. So, I really see a difference when they(FOX) upconverts a show to 720P vs one of the shows that isn't upconverted. I consider that to be a HD show. If you couldn't count an upconverted program as HD, then you're saying only original programs shot with HD equipment are HD? I know that the true HD programs have the true resolution of 1080i or 720p and they are much higher in quality, but I also consider the upconverts to 1080i or 720P as HD because they are also much better than the 480i or 480p original resolution. If FOX or some other network is upconverting a program to HD resolution, then I consider that to be HD. There is a huge difference in programs that are upconverted and programs that are not upconverted.

Originally posted by Lyle O
Todd,
Same issue here. I have a Dish 6000. When I tune in 2.3, the radar flashes for less than a second and then I see nothing. Then when I change the channel it flashes on again for less than a second.
Jeff

FWIW, there's always been something odd about how that weather radar channel is "encoded". It always hangs my Samsung SIR-T165 with a blank screen for a couple seconds when I channel up/down past it. Once it locks in, it's fine. I assume since it's a static image instead of full motion, there is something different about that digital stream that isn't quite right (or nobody making the set top boxes ever tested such a scenario, which wouldn't surprise me)

-- Paul

Originally posted by paule123
FWIW, there's always been something odd about how that weather radar channel is "encoded". It always hangs my Samsung SIR-T165 with a blank screen for a couple seconds when I channel up/down past it. Once it locks in, it's fine. I assume since it's a static image instead of full motion, there is something different about that digital stream that isn't quite right (or nobody making the set top boxes ever tested such a scenario, which wouldn't surprise me)

-- Paul

I'm sure somebody else can give more specifics, but I always attributed the issues on 3-3 to the fact that it has painfully little bandwidth allotted to it. My HD-200 works fine on 3-3, although it does get extremely blocky and / or drop out when there is fast motion (well, as fast as you could expect on 3-3). And atmospheric conditions do contribute to frequent dropouts -- usually when I want to watch the radar the most.

My theory is that because there is so little bandwidth available for 3-3 that if you miss a block or two of the data stream, your box might not catch up right away if at all. Or, if the channel's not coming in at all for you, perhaps it's the ol' "all or nothing" syndrome with digital broadcasts. In other words, if your signal strength is on the borderline at all, loss of signal would be more frequent and the box may not have enough to grab onto since there is so little coming at it in the first place.

With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..

Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.

Maybe it will help.

Ray

With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..

Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.

Maybe it will help.

Ray

Originally posted by Rbuchina
With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..

Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.

Maybe it will help.

Ray

Make sure you complain to programming@wkyc.com as well. You would be surprised - many stations actually read these emails and respond.

http://www.wkyc.com/contact/

-- Paul

Originally posted by Rbuchina
With the hope that someone from WKYC is reading..

Wake up channel 3! Your HD 2-1 programming signal is unwatchable. Put your bandwidth into your programming. If I want weather I'll tune to The Weather Channel.

Maybe it will help.

Ray

I've been saying that 3-2 is useless for a while now. Supposedly it's needed to provide digital signals to the cable providers. But that doesn't make any sense to me, since the other digital stations are able to provide the same signal without actually broadcasting it.

But, PLEASE DON'T TAKE 3-3 AWAY! My wife and I are junkies. And since we have DirecTV, we don't have the "local on the 8's" forcast that cable subscribers do. And without broadband capability, the argument that we could just check the internet is inconvenient for us. 3-3 provides a great service for us.

So, if they would drop 3-2 altogether and allocate about 90% of that bandwidth to 3-1 and 10% additional to 3-3, we'd all be happy, right?

Originally posted by MrPorterhouse
.....like watching the HD movies on Cinemax-HD. Those movies are upconverted to 1080i and they look amazing.The reason Cinemax HD movies 'look amazing', is because they are HDTV. Widescreen movies on Cinemax HD are not upconverted, they are native HD. Cinemax HD & HBO HD do not upconvert any movies. On the other hand, Showtime & TMC do.


If you couldn't count an upconverted program as HD, then you're saying only original programs shot with HD equipment are HD?This is 100% correct.

Native HD is defined by the following: The initial acquisition must be obtained by an HD imaging device, either from live video using an HD camera or a film transfer using an HD telecine.

Taking any other source and upconverting it to an HD format is not HDTV.


I know that the true HD programs have the true resolution of 1080i or 720p and they are much higher in quality, but I also consider the upconverts to 1080i or 720P as HD because they are also much better than the 480i or 480p original resolution. If FOX or some other network is upconverting a program to HD resolution, then I consider that to be HD.This is flat out incorrect.



.....but I really enjoy the upconvert.Fine, but that does not make it HDTV.

Does Adelphia pass any HD in the clear, unencrypted? Or is all of their HD, including locals, encoded?

Does anyone know when and why not now WVIZ PBS in Cleveland will go Hi-Def? Over two years ago their website said they would go Hi-Def on May 1st 2003. They got an extension from the FCC. I was hoping they would go on May 1st 04. Nothing happened. I called them several times. Nobody seems to know anything. Their PR person promised to call me. She never did.

Originally posted by Dave Alex
Does anyone know when and why not now WVIZ PBS in Cleveland will go Hi-Def? Over two years ago their website said they would go Hi-Def on May 1st 2003. They got an extension from the FCC. I was hoping they would go on May 1st 04. Nothing happened. I called them several times. Nobody seems to know anything. Their PR person promised to call me. She never did.

A while back in this thread, it was discovered in an FCC filing that Viacom (who WVIZ currently leases tower space from), for whatever reason, was preventing WVIZ from installing their digital transmitter on that tower. I assume WVIZ is still struggling with Viacom, or attempting to locate another tower. An engineer at WVIZ said it might be possible that they start doing HD over cable before OTA, but that was months ago.

Reporters at the Plain-Dealer who I've emailed about the problem, to my knowledge, have done nothing to bring the issue to the public.

-- Paul

Originally posted by Ken H
Does Adelphia pass any HD in the clear, unencrypted? Or is all of their HD, including locals, encoded?

Ken,

I've been told by Adelphia CSR's that they do not send a clear signal. However, CSR's can often be incorrect. We have an Adelphia insider who stops in this thread. Hopefully, he can confirm or deny this statement.


Jim

You might be able to confirm whether the HD cable broadcasts are encrypted or not if someone is able to use any digital cable box other than the one provided by Adelphia.

When I called Time Warner and asked if I needed to rent a box from them to receive HD, they said any digital box able to decode HD cable signals would do.

Hey Tom! I tried to incorporate the Adelphia channels into my Zenith 520 and couldn't do it which is why I made the call to Adelphia.

Guys I am emailing this to WKYC about channel 3-2. Please add your name to the bottom and email it as well. I am sending it to programming@wkyc.com as was listed earlier in the thread. If anyone knows someone better to send it to, please post it.

The olympics are coming up, and NBC has NASCAR now in Widescreen, and those are both very fast moving sports. Pixillation will be horrible and channel 3-2 needs to be turned off.





Dear WKYC,

I have been talking with many other HDTV owners in the Cleveland area and we all agree that substation 3-2 is not necessary. By allocating bandwidth on your broadcast to 3-2, channel 3-1 suffers dramatically. During any scenes with motion, the screen is filled with pixilation. Because of this, the HDTV picture on WKYC is the worst of all the networks in Cleveland currently broadcasting in HD. Having 3-2 is also unneccassy for HDTV owners. There is no reason for us to ever watch 3-2 because there is no reason not to watch the HD picture on 3-1. Why on earth would we choose to watch Law and Order, or any other NBC program on channel 3-2 in standard definition, when we have the HD picture on 3-1.

I am asking you to please stop broadcasting channel 3-2 on your digital station. The picture quality on 3-1 suffers greatly, and as HDTV owners, we have no reason to watch 3-2.

Thank you for your time, and please turn this broadcast off,

Mike Stuewe

I know that Adelphia is now allowing a customer to use their own box, with a credit (much like they do with the cable modem). I remember that being in a mailing awhile back, but never considered it, given the cost of the box. However, it might be only for the specific equipment currently being used.

Originally posted by Shark73
Hey Tom! I tried to incorporate the Adelphia channels into my Zenith 520 and couldn't do it which is why I made the call to Adelphia.

Hi Jim,
funny... that's why I called Time Warner also, to see if I could receive cable HD on my Zenith 520. They said it should work fine but as we both found out, the Zenith doesn't do HD cable.

I guess I'm one of the few that do watch channel 3-2. My HDTV is native 4:3 so when they are broadcasting non-HDTV(native 4:3) material watching on 3-2 allows it to fill the entire 4:3 screen. Otherwise it would be both letterboxed AND windowboxed on my screen if I watched it on 3-1. However, if there is true native widescreen HDTV being broadcast on 3-1 I very much agree that they should not multicast at that time. I'm guessing though that constantly reconfiguring their datastream like that is not something they would be very excited about doing. I think it would solve the problem though.
Steve

Steve why not just watch the analog signal. Because of the pixelation, I think analog is a much nicer picture than 3-2.

If your TV has a QAM tuner should you be able to pick up Adelphia's HD feeds?

Originally posted by abrahavt
If your TV has a QAM tuner should you be able to pick up Adelphia's HD feeds?

It seems not. The HD channel numbers via the cable box are not the "right" ones for the QAM tuner. I tried 770 with the Sony XBR QAM tuner and did not get anything.

Apparently the letter from Adelphia on the Sept 15 go with espnHD, etc. has been delayed to August 1st. Has anyone heard anything on this? Also, I was told the new HD DVR will be here shortly (within just a few weeks). This info came from a local Adelphia salesperson that has been reliable in the past. Thanks for any info.

I assume you meant July 15th.

I called Adelphia as soon as the letter arrived. The Customer Service person could find no information on how to enter a subscription into the system. She was to call me back, which has not happened yet. I guess August 1 is the next fantasy date.

Just appeared on digital Channel 1 (in Shaker Heights):

"Great News! ESPN HD available 07/15/04, customers will be able to subscribe to our new HD Plus tier that includes ESPN HD, INHD1 & INHD2. Cinemax HD will also be available for customers who subscribe to Cinemax."

As far as I know, everythings set for tomorrow, except Cinemax. There was a glitch as of 5PM today. I hope they can resolve that. You should be able to order the HD pak tomorrow. I'm trying to confirm some more good news tonite. Will post asap.

It was weird tonight. I lost HDNet Movies. It now shows the "Not Subscribed" message. I called in, but they indicated that others had called in reporting the problem too...

FWIW, I ordered the package last week using the regular 888 number. When I called in tonight, the CS rep. confirmed that I was all signed up.

I lost the HDNet Movies, too. In addition, I find that a new channel is showing up, MAXH. It's blank at the moment. Since I'm not a Cinemax subscriber, I shouldn't be seeing this, but they'll probably get it all straightened out by the time the new tier goes into effect tomorrow.

I had no trouble getting signed up for the HDPlus package. The number in the letter didn't help, though - I had to get transferred over to the regular Customer Service desk.

I looked over the InHD website. It sure looks like this is going to be a disappointment. The HDNet channels are interesting, but InHD doesn't seem to have much to recommend it. As for ESPN, in the years that I've had their SD channel I've never found a reason to watch it, so I doubt that the HD channel will draw me in either.

I have an LG LST-3510A. When I connect it to the cable, I get the following channels:

105-3 NBC
105-5 ABC
106-2 HDNet
106-3 HDNet Movies (just lost this tonight)

In addition, there are about 45 Audio Only channels, and three others that detect as scrambled. I will also occasionally stumble on an in progress In-Demand PPV movie on channels 75-20 thru 75-24.

Please post when the HD Plus tier is live. I will scan again and let you know if any of those channels are not scrambled.

Chris.

Cinemax HD is on.

Originally posted by handsworth
As far as I know, everythings set for tomorrow, except Cinemax. There was a glitch as of 5PM today. I hope they can resolve that. You should be able to order the HD pak tomorrow. I'm trying to confirm some more good news tonite. Will post asap.

Well, there's no sign of the HDPlus channels yet. So far the only thing that has happened is that HDNet Movies has disappeared. Apparently Adelphia is still working on getting the new service deployed.

After talking to two different rep's at Adelphia this morning, my opinion about them has not changed! Instead of gaining three new chanels, I lost two ( hd net and hd movies )! In the end they admitted a problem and hope to have it corrected today. However they have a promo for cinemax going on now and they added cinemax hd for now ( I do not subscribe to that tier ).

I made a mistake, Starz HD 752, not cinemax is now on for a promotional period. Also, HD net and HD movie have made a return! However none of the new ones, ESPN HD, Inhd1, or Inhd2, have shown up yet even though I signed up for them.

do you see those (ESPN, inhd's) on the guide as no subscription etc...? I haven't signed up, but I do see those new channels in the guide & can tune to them & see the no sub message.

-Todd

I called Adelphia a few hours ago. There are having technical problems with the new channels and don't know when they'll be working.

Several people at Adelphia said that I should automatically receive the new channels while another said that since I did not subscribe to them I will not be able to watch them! Sooooo, I subscribed to them for $5 a month and since they are having problems, I still cannot view them.

let us know when they come in.

I got all my channels about 4PM this afternoon. HDNet dropped off last night because they moved them to the pay tier but forgot about existing customers who should get them free till august 3rd. They fixed it today. If you are still missing channels, call them to get an impulse hit.

GOOD NEWS!!! My sources have told me that the HD/DVR combo box will be available say Monday. If you want to pick it up, I would suggest that you contact your neighborhood payment office to insure that they have been delivered there. They are just now leaving a main warehouse for distribution. The cost is still $7.95/mo. for the box. You only have to pay the $25.00 installation charge if you request a truck to come out. This box records/playback perfectly in HD. (20 hrs HD or 90 hrs SD)

BAD NEWS!!! They are waiting for Scientific Atlanta to do a software upgrade on that box which won't happen til late July. What this means is that IEEE1394 and DVI ports are not active. No big deal for some people. Also the setup wizard reverted back to a prior version. Still no big deal.

Wanted: Anyone on Adelphia's system owning a cable card equiped TV and would like to be a tester, please email handsworth@adelphia.net

I got them all this morning, but only after I called in. The CS thought they were still having technical problems, but offered to reset the box anyway, after which they came in...

The moral of the story is: tell them to reset the box no matter what they say!

I just bought a TV with an OTA HD tuner and a QAM tuner. I was hoping to get channel 3 (NBC) OTA but I am unable to get any signals. I was hoping to get it working in order to see the Olympics. I am using a Terk indoor antenna. Do I need a more powerful antenna? As for the QAM tuner I am having trouble picking up any stations with it. Do Adelphia encrypt all their HDTV signals. I thought that as per FCC regulations they were not allowed to encrypt non premium channels. On calling themn I was told that I need a set top box from them in order to receive any HD signals.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
let us know when they come in. The new channels are all there this morning. I didn't have to do anything more - they just showed up.

Terk indoor antenna's are notoriously bad. I'd have been suprised if you could have pulled in much with it. In fact, I've never had one bit of luck with ANY Terk antenna. I don't think they are very good at all. I am in Twinsburg, right next to you & I use a Channel Master 3010 Stealthtenna. It's very good & fairly small. It's not a table or TV top antenna, but it's only about 3 or 4 feet wide or so. In Solon, you might be able to get away with a Radio Shack copper double Bowtie antenna inside. I can get a few in with it, but I'm farther than you are from the towers (not much though). They are about $15 and are rectangle looking things with copper metal. The stealthtenna is only about $29 & has been great for me. You can find those online.

-Todd

Still no new HD pak as of 9 am this morning. I too had to call freakin CS for the 3rd time. Asked them to reboot my boxes and wall-a it finally snapped in. From the few minutes I had to check it out INHD sure looked amazing.

Just called Adelphia to get my cable box rebooted, as the new HD channels didn't come through as authorized. Reboot did not help. They are crediting me with 2 days for lack of service. They say they are having technical difficulties ...

Wow! You can probably upgrade your system now. 2 days divided by $5/month = about .33 cents. Gotta love Adelphia, Their soooo good to us. :D :D :D

p.s. She had to do the re-boot 3 times before it worked for me.

Well, I gave them some time to fix their woes and still nothing. I called Adelphia service and they said I had to have a HD box. I replied that I have had one since January 4th! She then said that I had to subscribe to the HD tier. I said that I told Three reps yesterday to do just that! She added me again, and shazam, it worked. Like everyone says to do with Adalphia, keep trying!

Now that you Adelphia guys got me curious, I contacted Wide Open West and they indeed have an HD DVR now. It's $12.99/mo. and you can swap it out with the $6.99/mo. HD cable box, so it effectively is $6 more a month.
The box is Scientific Atlanta E8000HD.

I told 'em they gotta advertise this stuff better, I didn't know they had *any* kind of DVR until now... When I was in San Diego last month, Comcast has HDTV and DVR stuff plastered all over town, in PetCo Field, etc. You couldn't live in San Diego and *not* be aware of Comcast services...

Now the question is can I convince myself to spend yet *another* $6 a month for this toy...

-- Paul

Adelphia did a better job of advertising the new HD Plus tier (letters to current HD subscribers and on air notices), but I don't completely blame them for not going totally crazy with advertising until they are sure the bugs are worked out.

Whether we like it or not, those of us who want it first tend to be the guinea pigs sometimes. Look at all the problems over the last day with the new channels. Last fall when HD was first introduced, Adelphia didn't advertise its availability at all; now they are running regular commercials and promotions about it...

Can any of you guys in medina or further south pick up nbc in hd? If so, what type of antenna r you using? I can get everything but that one. Thanks.

FWIW...

According to Adelphia CS, Ashtabula will have the HD DVR available on July 26th.

From what I'm reading here, I assume it will be the SA-8000HD.

Now that we have all the tools, when will we get all the channels?
(FOX, CBS, etc).

Originally posted by dementia
Can any of you guys in medina or further south pick up nbc in hd? If so, what type of antenna r you using? I can get everything but that one. Thanks.

I'm on the southern border of Medina (Halifax Lane), and I can get Channel 3 for the most part. I've got a Radio Shack 120" in the attic over the garage, and it works for almost all of the Cleveland stations well. Channel 3 is the problem child, and it's full of dropouts to the point that I'd say 4 out of the 7 days of the week It's not particularly watchable unless you can live with the pixellation and dropouts every couple of minutes.

I think if the antenna was higher (the garage is only one story) and outside, it would be a lot better.

If you're in Medina itself, Armstrong reportedly has a pretty good HD system including a PVR.

Originally posted by RexEctor
FWIW...

According to Adelphia CS, Ashtabula will have the HD DVR available on July 26th.

From what I'm reading here, I assume it will be the SA-8000HD.

Now that we have all the tools, when will we get all the channels?
(FOX, CBS, etc).

Call back, the SA8000HD is already available. I picked it up last week in the Concord office near Mentor. They told me the same story, called back, and the guy said, yeah, they are in. Just call back, the CSR's are morons.

The box is nice, but like stated before has the very basic features. The big one for me, is that it doesn't have the UpConvert, Fixed, Pass Through settings, so you always have to stretch the screen for SDTV programming, bummer. Oh well, hopefully they will get the fix.

Originally posted by ZManCartFan
I'm on the southern border of Medina (Halifax Lane), and I can get Channel 3 for the most part. I've got a Radio Shack 120" in the attic over the garage, and it works for almost all of the Cleveland stations well. Channel 3 is the problem child, and it's full of dropouts to the point that I'd say 4 out of the 7 days of the week It's not particularly watchable unless you can live with the pixellation and dropouts every couple of minutes.

I think if the antenna was higher (the garage is only one story) and outside, it would be a lot better.

If you're in Medina itself, Armstrong reportedly has a pretty good HD system including a PVR.
I'm just northwest of Medina, and get marginal reception on both analog and digital channel 3. Most of the time 3 digital comes in OK with only occasional dropouts, but there are times when it's difficult to get. All other analog and digital Cleveland stations always come in excellent. I even get a better signal than 3 from 17-1 out of Canton, and my antenna's not even pointed in that direction. I recall that when I had Armstrong analog cable some time ago, 3 came in noisier than other locals, so there must a signal problem with channels 2 and 3 in this area.

Originally posted by extremegamer
Call back, the SA8000HD is already available. I picked it up last week in the Concord office near Mentor. They told me the same story, called back, and the guy said, yeah, they are in. Just call back, the CSR's are morons.

The box is nice, but like stated before has the very basic features. The big one for me, is that it doesn't have the UpConvert, Fixed, Pass Through settings, so you always have to stretch the screen for SDTV programming, bummer. Oh well, hopefully they will get the fix.

You are kidding. That sucks! Have you run through the setup wizard to see if those settings appear after you go through the resolution setup or is this a confirmed missing item. When the standard HD box 1st came out, it didn't have the pass-through , fixed, upconv. etc... but you could still manually switch to 480p so you could use the TV's formatting. If not, this means going through Svid for me because stretching SD locked in 1080i is horrible. So you can't manually switch it to 480p through componant?


-Todd

I can't believe you got that box already!!:( Any way, SA is supposed to to deliver the fix by EOM or early August. It should fix the DVI, the setup wizard and the IEEE1394 port.

Turn the box off, but leave the tv on.
Press the guide and info button at the same time and the setup wizard will appear. Confiure to you own tastes.
Turn tv on and by pressing the settings button once or twice you will get additional settings.

Looking at the vol/channel button on the STB. there is a button in the middle. Press and hold til a green light flashes. Release and press the vol down arrow. the box will toggle between dvr mode and HD mode. Press exit when the LED says HD. your box will now be in hd/dvr mode. It will perform as both.

To change format settings from 480 -720-1080, press settings button once. I believe there is a line item that will change it by using the remote.
The new software will update the setup wizard to the one we know now.

Oh BTW, my sources say WOIO is done. Need more details to post accurately.

Great news about WOIO (of course assuming it will be a freebie!) Now that leaves Fox (I assume WUAB won't be hard, since they're owned by the same people who own WOIO and don't have much HD programming anyway)

So in the last week we get ESPN and iNHD, the HD DVR, and the probability of CBS.

We finally have things that others don't! All you have to do is read the complaints on the programming board from the Time Warner people who don't have ESPN...

BTW, iNHD had the Montreal/Braves HD games on yesterday and tonight. For me, the HD sports they show make them worth the extra cash (along with ESPN of course!)

Originally posted by Dweezilz
You are kidding. That sucks! Have you run through the setup wizard to see if those settings appear after you go through the resolution setup or is this a confirmed missing item. When the standard HD box 1st came out, it didn't have the pass-through , fixed, upconv. etc... but you could still manually switch to 480p so you could use the TV's formatting. If not, this means going through Svid for me because stretching SD locked in 1080i is horrible. So you can't manually switch it to 480p through componant?


-Todd

Nope, have it on right now, just paused HDNET showing a Nascar race. Anyway, you can set it up to show the other formats, through an older looking set up wizard. Not nearly as nice as the one on the HDTV stand alone box. You can set it up and by hitting settings change through the formats though, but that's quite annoying. Oh well, hopefully a fix is coming.

Originally posted by handsworth
I can't believe you got that box already!!:( Any way, SA is supposed to to deliver the fix by EOM or early August. It should fix the DVI, the setup wizard and the IEEE1394 port.

Turn the box off, but leave the tv on.
Press the guide and info button at the same time and the setup wizard will appear. Confiure to you own tastes.
Turn tv on and by pressing the settings button once or twice you will get additional settings.

Looking at the vol/channel button on the STB. there is a button in the middle. Press and hold til a green light flashes. Release and press the vol down arrow. the box will toggle between dvr mode and HD mode. Press exit when the LED says HD. your box will now be in hd/dvr mode. It will perform as both.

To change format settings from 480 -720-1080, press settings button once. I believe there is a line item that will change it by using the remote.
The new software will update the setup wizard to the one we know now.

Oh BTW, my sources say WOIO is done. Need more details to post accurately.

Done both, the wizard is there, just it's an older looking version.

Woke up this morning with an interesting voice mail. My info was incorrect!!! :( It is CBS FOX 8 , not WOIO. I guess thats good news. More details to follow.

Originally posted by handsworth
Woke up this morning with an interesting voice mail. My info was incorrect!!! :( It is CBS FOX 8 , not WOIO. I guess thats good news. More details to follow.

At this point, I would rather have Fox for one reason, Super Bowl is on Fox this year, and if we don't get the other one till after January like I've heard, then I want to make sure I have the Super Bowl in HD.

Originally posted by extremegamer
Nope, have it on right now, just paused HDNET showing a Nascar race. Anyway, you can set it up to show the other formats, through an older looking set up wizard. Not nearly as nice as the one on the HDTV stand alone box. You can set it up and by hitting settings change through the formats though, but that's quite annoying. Oh well, hopefully a fix is coming.

Well, it's good that it can at least still be manually switched. In fact, for some reason my current box always resets back to fixed after a few days so I always have to go into the setup & change it back to pass-thru each time this resets. Now that's definately annoying! :) Sometimes it lasts a week, sometime only a day or two. I guess the DVR won't seem like quite a change for me then in that regard. HA! Hopefully they'll fix it. Thanks for the info.

I've seen the switchback to fixed too. I'm wondering if it's coming through the cable.

Fox is ok, and I agree about the importance of the superbowl. Plus, I suspect that the baseball playoffs and world series will be in HD.

But of course we want to see our "great" AFC team in high definition. (all sarcasm implied!)

Anybody out there have plans to have your TV calibrated? I had to miss the group buy in January and my set is about a year and a half old. I know there's one local person out there advertising that he's ISF certified, but I don't know anything about him.

I stopped by my Adelphia office on Saturday in North Olmsted just to see if they knew anything about the new HD DVR and sure enough, they had four in stock. I took 2 and will set them up this afternoon. As a longtime Tivo customer, I am interested to see how it performs. Right now my picture is in black and white through the component output. I have not run setup or anything, just plugged it in. I will post more once I get this figured out.

Well, that was quick! I set the output mode to component out and the box began to output a very nice HD picture. I then up all the screen formats as indicatd in the instructions. I played with the DVR functionality a little. A bit different from Tivo, but at least I can do some recording in HD without spending $1000 on the HD Tivo. Pretty cool technology. I will be interested to see if the firewire and DVI will work after the upgrade in August.

Until then, rush out now in a buying frenzy and get your box!

Well, for those who haven't gotten their HD DVR boxes yet, you may encounter a but more difficulty at this point. An Adelphia email went out this morning telling the local offices not to distribute the new boxes. However, you can schedule a service visit to get the HD DVR. Apparently a lot of people were taking the new boxes home and then calling in for support. So Adelphia decided to require a service visit with the box to make sure it got set up correctly.

Here we go again... This happened when the HD boxes first came out last year. Handsworth referred to an installation charge if a technician came out. I hope this would be waived in this case.

I just called CS and they said they wouldn't be available until next Monday, but that they could be picked up in the office. Obviously information isn't getting around smoothly.

Originally posted by jtscherne
I just called CS and they said they wouldn't be available until next Monday, but that they could be picked up in the office. Obviously information isn't getting around smoothly. Yeah, the CSR that I spoke with had heard that story, too. She was checking around and getting different information from different parts of Adelphia. We'll just have to see where the dust settles.

In any event, I've got a service person bringing the new box Wednesday with the charge for the call waived.

Did you guys actually go to the Adelphia payment center or just call? I stopped in to get mine on Saturday and they had already received an email about not giving them out. The lady I spoke to thought that was silly and after I explained that I was proficient at this stuff, they gave me two. My neighbor picked one up on Friday and another yesterday at North Olmsted. He said they received the mother lode and there were plenty available.

This thing is a piece of cake to setup with the unusually clear and concise instructions they give at pick up.

As many have already mentioned in this thread, CSR's on the phone can be, well, lets just say not very knowledgeable or helpful. Go to the store!

WEAO/WNEO channel 50 dtv is in Copley Ohio. They shut down channel 49 for a few days but its back up and no sign of channel 50 yet.
PBS in Akron area.

I went to the centers near me on Saturday (Triangle and Cleveland Heights) and they didn't have them. I went to Triangle today and they didn't have them and she called Cleveland Heights and they didn't have them either.

However, she also said that even if they had them, they were told not to release them until Monday the 26th.

Originally posted by ParsonsBri
Did you guys actually go to the Adelphia payment center or just call? I stopped in to get mine on Saturday and they had already received an email about not giving them out. The lady I spoke to thought that was silly and after I explained that I was proficient at this stuff, they gave me two. My neighbor picked one up on Friday and another yesterday at North Olmsted. He said they received the mother lode and there were plenty available.

Yes, I picked my up this afternoon, no questions asked.

I received a call earlier today from a CSR working at the Triangle Office (University Circle), who told me that Severance had plenty of boxes and that they were available for immediate pick-up. The Triangle CSR went beyond the call and I immediately took my old HD box in and exchanged it.

Not sure how many offices have them yet, but they are definitely appearing...

I've been reading this thread for awhile and decided to reg. FYI Here in SW Portage Co. I get ALL, DTV, OTA signals..."during the day" In the evening however, 3, ( yea I know) and 19 stink. Very strange. I'm using a Channel Master 60" in the attic 2nd story.

I heard 19 installed the wrong antenna?!?

Great thread everyone THANKS!

Originally posted by gass
I've been reading this thread for awhile and decided to reg. FYI Here in SW Portage Co. I get ALL, DTV, OTA signals..."during the day" In the evening however, 3, ( yea I know) and 19 stink. Very strange. I'm using a Channel Master 60" in the attic 2nd story.

I heard 19 installed the wrong antenna?!?

Great thread everyone THANKS!

19 (digital 10) installed the wrong antenna? That doesn't sound good. I also have trouble with 19 and 3 (digital 2). They're also low power @ 3.5kw(10) and 8kw(2) which I'm sure doesn't help. I wonder if 2 has the correct antenna...Seems like 2 has really been bad lately. I like the doppler radar(3-3) because it's almost current. The weatherchannel.com radar is about a half hour behind.

Your and everyone elses problems with 19 and 3 probably stem from the fact that they are on VHF. And really from what I have read, VHF is a waste with digital transmissions.

As was stated, the HD DVR box is available at the Cleveland Heights office (picked up one yesterday). However, I note that I no longer get ESPN HD and the two IN HD channels. The latest I heard was they were available for awhile (I got them before) but that they will not be available again til early august. Is that what everyone else is getting?

Also, I was told there is an option that results in the subscriber getting all HD stations that is a good buy (if you already get HBO, etc.). Any info on this? Thanks.

Just call in and ask them to flash the box. I had the same problem when I first brought the HD DVR box home and it took a couple of different CSRs to get things working again (first time, they got the HD plus channels working, but shut off the DVR functions!) Just keep trying and tell them that others in the area are getting the channels with no problems with the new boxes.

Originally posted by panjj
However, I note that I no longer get ESPN HD and the two IN HD channels. The latest I heard was they were available for awhile (I got them before) but that they will not be available again til early august. Is that what everyone else is getting? Adelphia delivered my SA8000HD yesterday morning. He had no trouble getting the box provisioned correctly - all the HD channels are there. I'm pretty impressed with the box itself - it has some nice capabilities. This is the first time I've ever worked with a DVR.

My only concern is that I think I was misinformed on the overall cost of this thing. I thought it was basically free - that the same $7.95 charge that applied to the standard HD box also applied to the DVR. But on the work order that Adelphia left me yesterday, it appears that there is an additional $4.95 charge to be added to my monthly bill on top of the $7.95. Does anyone know for sure?

Added note: I just called Adelphia and confirmed it. There is an additional charge of $4.95 monthly for the DVR service. I'm a little ticked off that this isn't mentioned anywhere on their website, nor did anyone mention it anywhere in either the ordering or delivery of this unit. They just tried to slip it past me.

Adelphia provides pretty good service in my opinion, but they just keep nickel and diming us with these charges. $5 here, $5 there.... my Adelphia bill is now somewhere around $120 a month - and I don't even have any premium channels!

Just an update. I had adelphia flash my HD DVR three more times and I still don't get ESPNHD and the two INHD channels. Are others getting those channels?? Thanks. (Hey, spare me the "flash" jokes, uh?)

I had Adellphia flash mine again yesterday and it started getting the new channels. Your Mileage May Vary.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Adelphia delivered my SA8000HD yesterday morning. He had no trouble getting the box provisioned correctly - all the HD channels are there. I'm pretty impressed with the box itself - it has some nice capabilities. This is the first time I've ever worked with a DVR.

My only concern is that I think I was misinformed on the overall cost of this thing. I thought it was basically free - that the same $7.95 charge that applied to the standard HD box also applied to the DVR. But on the work order that Adelphia left me yesterday, it appears that there is an additional $4.95 charge to be added to my monthly bill on top of the $7.95. Does anyone know for sure?

Added note: I just called Adelphia and confirmed it. There is an additional charge of $4.95 monthly for the DVR service. I'm a little ticked off that this isn't mentioned anywhere on their website, nor did anyone mention it anywhere in either the ordering or delivery of this unit. They just tried to slip it past me.

Adelphia provides pretty good service in my opinion, but they just keep nickel and diming us with these charges. $5 here, $5 there.... my Adelphia bill is now somewhere around $120 a month - and I don't even have any premium channels!

Yep I'm sure that's the charge. They charge the same for the standard DVR service as well, although the fee was waived for the several months. Considering Dish charges more for their DVR service plus you have to purchase a $900 box, I guess it's not bad in that light. :)

-Todd

ps - you pay $120 with no premiums?? Wow, that isn't good. I pay like $135 with everything, so for $15 more, you'll have every premium channel, plus add 4 more HD channels (HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax). You might want to look into that at this point.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Yep I'm sure that's the charge. They charge the same for the standard DVR service as well, although the fee was waived for the several months. Considering Dish charges more for their DVR service plus you have to purchase a $900 box, I guess it's not bad in that light. :)

-Todd

ps - you pay $120 with no premiums?? Wow, that isn't good. I pay like $135 with everything, so for $15 more, you'll have every premium channel, plus add 4 more HD channels (HBO, Showtime, Starz, Cinemax). You might want to look into that at this point.

The downside is you can only record 7-9 hours of HD with the Adelphia box.

Originally posted by Shark73
The downside is you can only record 7-9 hours of HD with the Adelphia box.

Agreed that sucks. And believe me, to get 25 hours, if I had $999 for a Dish 911, I'd do it! :) I'll take the 7-9 hours for now at little cost and deal with it. When I first got my Dish 7100 a few years ago, I had only 5-6 hours total which amounted to lots of juggling & deleting, but since there's little to lose here, it's fine for what it is. The key is no big money outlay which means I have something instead of nothing since I can't afford anything more.

I was told that the combo box could record 20 hrs of HD, or 90 hrs of SD, or somewhere inbetween when recording both. It has a 160 gig HD. I will try to verify these numbers.

Question for someone else who has an Adelphia HD DVR:

Are you having problems recording while watching TV? I have attempted to do this a number of times; the recording shows as scheduled, but doesn't actually record. One time, I scheduled a second recording while the first was not recording, and the box changed channels at the specific time and started recording the second program!

Anyone else having this problem? My other non-HD DVR records perfectly, even when I'm watching TV. Is there something wrong, or am I just doing something wrong?

Thanks!

Going through the diagnostic screens, I was able to verify that the HD is definitely 160 gig. If you read through the thread noted below, our boxes seem very similar to the software described in the thread (SARA refers to the specific DVR software; there is at least one other possible version). It indicates approximately 20 hours of HD. Hopefully Handsworth will be able to verify.

SA8000HD DVR - Cox - SARA - Setup and Review Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=421666)

Originally posted by handsworth
I was told that the combo box could record 20 hrs of HD, or 90 hrs of SD, or somewhere inbetween when recording both. It has a 160 gig HD. I will try to verify these numbers.

Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub? I've received two conflicting answers from Adelphia CSR's in the past week.

Thanks!

Jim

Originally posted by Shark73
Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub? I would assume that you need the basic digital service as a prereq since that's how the HD signals are delivered. But only Adelphia can tell you for sure. BTW, the HDNet channels are now part of the HD Plus pack, no longer free (effective next week).

It doesn't look like WEWS is multicasting the Dems convention coverage... anybody else tried it yet? looked for a 5-2?

Not that it matters, PBS, CSPAN, and CNN are covering it, LOL... and at 10:00 HDNet coverage with Bill and Hillary in glorious HD...

-- Paul

Here is the answer I got from Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Ops. regarding poor reception of WKYC in Mentor Area.

"Dear Adrian,

Thank-you for your email. I have delayed my response because we have been discussing this issue internally. I can tell you that we are using 3-2 for good business reasons and that we are not prepared to stop using it at this time. However, because of a number of complaints like yours we do plan to install a statistical multiplexer that will allocate bandwidth dynamically, with the net result being a better HDTV picture. Unfortunately this device is very expensive and I cannot tell you just how soon it will be installed. What I can say for sure is that we value you as a viewer and we intend to fully address this issue as soon as possible.

Cordially yours,

Rex Rickly, Director of Technology & Ops"






Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Guys I am emailing this to WKYC about channel 3-2. Please add your name to the bottom and email it as well. I am sending it to programming@wkyc.com as was listed earlier in the thread. If anyone knows someone better to send it to, please post it.

The olympics are coming up, and NBC has NASCAR now in Widescreen, and those are both very fast moving sports. Pixillation will be horrible and channel 3-2 needs to be turned off.





Dear WKYC,

I have been talking with many other HDTV owners in the Cleveland area and we all agree that substation 3-2 is not necessary. By allocating bandwidth on your broadcast to 3-2, channel 3-1 suffers dramatically. During any scenes with motion, the screen is filled with pixilation. Because of this, the HDTV picture on WKYC is the worst of all the networks in Cleveland currently broadcasting in HD. Having 3-2 is also unneccassy for HDTV owners. There is no reason for us to ever watch 3-2 because there is no reason not to watch the HD picture on 3-1. Why on earth would we choose to watch Law and Order, or any other NBC program on channel 3-2 in standard definition, when we have the HD picture on 3-1.

I am asking you to please stop broadcasting channel 3-2 on your digital station. The picture quality on 3-1 suffers greatly, and as HDTV owners, we have no reason to watch 3-2.

Thank you for your time, and please turn this broadcast off,

Mike Stuewe

Got the same response. Rex seems cool. I emailed him back asking him out the "stat mux" works and I am more confused now, but overall its good to know that WKYC hears that we dont like the wasted bandwidth.

I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.

I have not yet received a response.

Originally posted by StanZ
I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.

I have not yet received a response.

Unfortunately it's not a Hi-Def multicast from what I understand - it is just the experimental ABC News channel transmitted digitally SD 4:3 ...

That's why I wasn't too disappointed about not having it, with all the other SD coverage available out there, and HDNet in convention prime time every night.

-- Paul

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
Got the same response. Rex seems cool. I emailed him back asking him out the "stat mux" works and I am more confused now, but overall its good to know that WKYC hears that we dont like the wasted bandwidth.

I can understand how a stat mux would help if the subchannels 3-1 and 3-2 were transmitting different content, but I'm a little lost on how it helps much when both channels have the same content, and each will be demanding bursts of bandwidth at the exact same time (for high motion sports scenes for example)...

I think it would work better in scenarios where you had, for example, an anchorman talking head (little scene change) on one channel, and sports on the other channel, then the stat mux would dynamically borrow bandwidth from the anchorman and give it to the sports channel for better PQ.


-- Paul

Paul I was thinking the same exact thing, and will probably email Rex back.

Just spotted a new channel: 799, labelled HdPV1.

It's Pay Per View.

No listings yet, though.

It might be the Tyson fight in HD....That's this weekend, no?

Tyson is on Friday, so you're probably right.

I'm not interested, but it's a good idea to offer it.

Originally posted by Shark73
Does anyone know if I can get the free (Locals, HDNet's) HD channels and the pay tier HD pack from Adelphia with only a basic cable w/Internet sub? Or do I need to sub to a digital cable sub? I've received two conflicting answers from Adelphia CSR's in the past week.

Thanks!

Jim

If you have your own QAM tuner, you can get the local channels in HD for free, assuming that the digital signal is available in your area. Right now, that's only NBC and ABC. I am also currently receiving HDNet, and HDNet Movies, but one or both of them is supposed to move to the pay tier HD pack on August 1st.

If you want the pay tier, you need their box, and that means following their subscription rules. I believe they require you to subscribe to digital cable to get the box.

-Chris.

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe


"I can tell you that we are using 3-2 for good business reasons and that we are not prepared to stop using it at this time."

Paul I was thinking the same exact thing, and will probably email Rex back.

When you email him back, would you please ask what the "good business reason" is to broadcast 3-2? I'm still trying to figure out what it is.

Yeah no kidding. I can't figure that one out yet either. They don't broadcast HD on that channel (correct?) so it's just the digital version of the analog 4:3 programming with black bars. I guess for all those 4:3 HD TV's out there with owners who would rather watch the SD with no bars vs. HD with bars on top/bottom, it makes plenty of sense! ;) I'm sure people got 4:3 HDTV's to watch digital SD. Yeah right.

-Todd

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Yeah no kidding. I can't figure that one out yet either. They don't broadcast HD on that channel (correct?) so it's just the digital version of the analog 4:3 programming with black bars. I guess for all those 4:3 HD TV's out there with owners who would rather watch the SD with no bars vs. HD with bars on top/bottom, it makes plenty of sense! ;) I'm sure people got 4:3 HDTV's to watch digital SD. Yeah right. Chances are the "good business reason" has nothing to do with viewers. Remember that the station's REAL customers are not viewers but advertisers. It may be that some of the contracts that WKYC has with its advertisers somehow require them to run a standard SD version of their signal over their digital carrier. So 3-2 may allow them to sell more ads, or to charge more for the ones that they carry. Just a guess.

In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day?

Thanks,
Rick

Regarding Adelphia HD DVR box,
Tech. came out and replaced HD STB with new SA-8000. Old HD box was connected to TV by DVI and PQ was fantastic in HD signal and even SD. SA-8000 has DVI, which doesn't work. Is it normal? DVI outlet in SA-8000 is only for future use? I connected with components and PQ is not so great as DVI connection. Do I have to do anything, such as changing setting, save 720p signal etc.? Thank you in advance.

If you read a few posts back, you'll see a short discussion about this issue. The initial HD DVR boxes have an older software version that will eventually be upgraded to a version that should activate the DVI.

Originally posted by rdalcanto
In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day? I realize that some people have trouble getting channel 3, but I've never had any trouble here in Geauga County. I have more trouble with CBS and UPN than I do with NBC, though they're all pretty good at this point. I suspect that those who have trouble getting WKYC may not be using an antenna that properly covers the entire VHF band. Remember that this station is at the lowest possible VHF frequency, while most digital stations are up on the UHF band. So if your antenna isn't well-tuned for the low frequencies, you're likely to have trouble with WKYC.

Remember that this station is at the lowest possible VHF frequency, while most digital stations are up on the UHF band. So if your antenna isn't well-tuned for the low frequencies, you're likely to have trouble with WKYC.

I get the analog signal with the same antenna. Would the digital be on a different frequency? Could it still be the antenna? Sorry if this is a stupid question....

Thanks,
Rick

Originally posted by rdalcanto
I get the analog signal with the same antenna. Would the digital be on a different frequency? Could it still be the antenna? Sorry if this is a stupid question....It's not the same frequency, the digital broadcast actually operates on VHF channel 2. But, obviously, the analog channel 3 isn't much higher. Still, WKYC analog uses more than 10 times as much power as WKYC digital, so you may still find that you need a better antenna for the digital signal. WKYC's digital signal is fairly low in power, so that's definitely still a factor.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Chances are the "good business reason" has nothing to do with viewers. Remember that the station's REAL customers are not viewers but advertisers. It may be that some of the contracts that WKYC has with its advertisers somehow require them to run a standard SD version of their signal over their digital carrier. So 3-2 may allow them to sell more ads, or to charge more for the ones that they carry. Just a guess.

This sounds at least remotely plausible, and it's the best guess I've heard so far. The only other reason I've ever heard is that they're using the digital signal for distribution to cable companies. However that never made sense to me, as the other stations in the area may produce a digital signal that doesn't take up any broadcast bandwidth.

It just really boils my butt (is that even an expression? :) ) that WKYC has advertising tickers on the bottom of their screen about being #1 in HDTV, when they have the lousiest excuse for a digital broadcast around: ridiculously low power, the lowest VHF frequency you can get, and multicasting of useless signals. And I'm seriously wondering how this miracle panacea of the dynamic bandwidth allocation is going to solve anything at all since both 3-1 and 3-2 carry the same material that will have the same amount of fast-action on the screen at the same time.

And as for 3-2 being a catch-all for 4:3 screens without the black bars, I've got a 4:3. And I would much rather either watch the D* signal (even with its lousy compression) or the analog OTA signal since the digital 3-2 is so prone to dropout and pixellation that it's unwatchable anyway. I'm sure the folks living north of St. Clair downtown really enjoy it, though.

Originally posted by jtscherne
If you read a few posts back, you'll see a short discussion about this issue. The initial HD DVR boxes have an older software version that will eventually be upgraded to a version that should activate the DVI.
Thanks, jts.
I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?

... WKYC analog uses more than 10 times as much power as WKYC digital, so you may still find that you need a better antenna for the digital signal. WKYC's digital signal is fairly low in power ...

ERP for 8VSB/ATSC signals is measured differently than NTSC. The end result is that an analog station's ERP is approximately equivalent to a digital station with only 1/5 of the power, at the same frequency. If you examine the max-powered UHF stations, you'll see that 5000kW is the max for analog, and 1000kW is the max ERP for digital; and yet, two adjacent-channel stations with those power levels have the same coverage area. The exact 5:1 ratio isn't the same for VHF-Low and VHF-High, but it is similar.

What that means is that WKYC-DT Channel 2 will be similar to a 40kW analog station on 2, which is about 40% as potent as WKYC-TV Channel 3, instead of what appears to be 10%.

8kW is pretty good for Channel 2. In the Chicago area, the VHF-Low reception woes continue with WBBM-DT on 3, who after finally bumping up to 3.7kW is now trying for 4.4kW.

Originally posted by PhilJSmith67
ERP for 8VSB/ATSC signals is measured differently than NTSC. The end result is that an analog station's ERP is approximately equivalent to a digital station with only 1/5 of the power, at the same frequency. If you examine the max-powered UHF stations, you'll see that 5000kW is the max for analog, and 1000kW is the max ERP for digital; and yet, two adjacent-channel stations with those power levels have the same coverage area. The exact 5:1 ratio isn't the same for VHF-Low and VHF-High, but it is similar.

What that means is that WKYC-DT Channel 2 will be similar to a 40kW analog station on 2, which is about 40% as potent as WKYC-TV Channel 3, instead of what appears to be 10%.

8kW is pretty good for Channel 2. In the Chicago area, the VHF-Low reception woes continue with WBBM-DT on 3, who after finally bumping up to 3.7kW is now trying for 4.4kW.
Thanks for that explanation. I knew that the digital broadcasts were generally able to cover the same area with less power, but I didn't realize that the difference was so dramatic. Still, I suspect that WKYC-DT's combination of low power at a low frequency causes a lot of reception problems. Some antennas that work well for all the other stations may still not do a very good job with this combination.

Originally posted by rdalcanto
In anticipation of the olympics, I tried getting a signal on 3-1 - NOTHING! I almost never get a signal on this station. I called the station but got the engineers voice mail - I doubt I'll get an answer. Does anyone get a signal? Is it on only certain times of the day?

Thanks,
Rick

I have a VERY difficult time in Twinsburg pulling NBC in. I basically rely on Adelphia because on most days, I can't get it in OTA. I'm using a Channel Master Stealthtenna outside on a poll so it's a good one. I'm guessing the only way I'm pulling that one in from here would be a large roof antenna.

-Todd

Originally posted by oldavnut
Thanks, jts.
I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?

Spoke to someone at Adelphia yesterday & said a software upgrade will happen in about 3-4 weeks which will enable the resolution 'pass-through' to we don't need to manually switch from 1080i to 480i. Maybe the DVI will be enabled at that point too.

-Todd

Originally posted by StanZ
I have emailed WEWS to ask them whether or not they would carry the HD multicast of the convention.


Here is the pertinent part of their response -- the day AFTER the convention.

As of now we are only able to broadcast our main
digital channel as it requires additional equipment to handle any
subchannels.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
I have a VERY difficult time in Twinsburg pulling NBC in. I basically rely on Adelphia because on most days, I can't get it in OTA. I'm using a Channel Master Stealthtenna outside on a poll so it's a good one. I'm guessing the only way I'm pulling that one in from here would be a large roof antenna.

-Todd

I essentially got flamed on another board by a couple engineers for saying this last year, but I will continue drumming this beat until some of the holdouts finally cave:

LOW-BAND VHF SUCKS!
CHANNELS TWO THROUGH SIX SHOULD BE ELIMINATED!

People love portability in small packages. Just look at the explosive growth of wireless networking... Some of you are probably reading this right now via an 802.11a/b/g adapter.

Have you seen a handheld TV from the U.K.? UHF only. Simple. One band. 10" antenna. And, most of all, it works equally well on Channel 21 as it does on 69.

But, what do we have here? We've got stations where a portable TV would theoretically need an antenna about 5 feet long to receive as well as VHF-High or UHF stations. And, even with that, we also are graced with transient electrical noises, lightning static, and E-Skip interference. And for what? So that in the most mountainous areas of the country (where the fewest people live!) John Q. Public can stand proud and say that he can get one station in black-and-white down by the river?

Meanwhile, 15 million other people who still depend on over-the-air stations have to erect antennas, some of which are a sore spot for HOAs. And, just then, when the $150+labor antenna system is in place, a neighbor's piña-colada-making activities wipes out the entire ending of an hour-long show, of an eight-week miniseries, that you're recording while working the late shift.

Bring on the engineers that are married to VHF-Low. I'll introduce you to the *rest* of the public... The accountants, the iron workers, people watching a game on the porch, and the parent making one dollar over minimum wage that just wants to watch a little TV while making dinner for the kids... These people already have enough complication in their lives, and they shouldn't have to learn terms like "transients, guy wires, and sporadic E" just to watch a couple of their local stations without having to pay for cable or satellite service.

Originally posted by Dweezilz
Maybe the DVI will be enabled at that point too.

-Todd

Thanks.
Does anybody know what kind and version of software being used in Adelphia HD-DVR? I heard it is Sara and it's new version is already out, but no DVI activation. I don't know it is fact or rumor.

You sound like my wife...but I have to agree. I've worked in wireless comm since the mid 80's and I love this chit! But to this day, when I try to explain to anyone I know what it is I do for a living....YR!

Did anyone in the Cleveland area do any recording with your HD-DVR last night? I recorded two programs (one HD, one SD). Both were unwatchable because of audio stuttering. I made a brief recording this morning, which worked fine.

I haven't sprung for the HDVR box yet. I'm wondering: I want to record some of the Olympics in HD, but then re-record it to VHS tape in SD. Can the HDVR box Adelphia provides do this?

Originally posted by jtscherne
Did anyone in the Cleveland area do any recording with your HD-DVR last night? I recorded two programs (one HD, one SD). Both were unwatchable because of audio stuttering. I made a brief recording this morning, which worked fine.

I recorded one SD program and it is OK.

Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals. When watching digital local channels mostly but have heard it also on HD channels the sound goes up and down like crazy, It will go to a whisper almost than back to normal. I talk to Armstrong and they said its not there problem that it comes like that from the stations. is this true or is there a problem at Armstrong or could cable box be bad? Other people in my neighborhood have same problem including a Armstrong employee. Do any others having Adelphia, Comcast, Time warner etc have this problem? Sure would like to get this fixed. Any help that I could pass on to Armstrong would be appreciated.

You Adelphia guys got me jealous so I got the SA8000HD via Wide Open West on Saturday. Running SARA v1.82.12.a5

So far, so good. This is an improvement over the 3250HD in that I now have the "#" button on the remote to do instant wide/zoom/normal mode. Previously I had to go into the 3250HD setting button to do that.

Initial impressions - very impressive! I've never played with a DVR before, and I'm pretty happy with it. Recording SD and HD seems fine, the dual tuner PIP feature is a great improvement.

I asked the install tech about when firewire and DVI would be enabled, he said "in a couple months" FWIW. He said that when that software rev is available the whole box would have to be swapped out? No software upgrade over the wire? Sounds odd to me....

-- Paul

Adelphia gets software updates over the wire, so I suspect he's mistaken. Our first HD boxes had the same basic software as these first HD DVRs and eventually updated without the user having to do anything.

Originally posted by bubblegum1647
Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals. When watching digital local channels mostly but have heard it also on HD channels the sound goes up and down like crazy, It will go to a whisper almost than back to normal. I talk to Armstrong and they said its not there problem that it comes like that from the stations. is this true or is there a problem at Armstrong or could cable box be bad? Other people in my neighborhood have same problem including a Armstrong employee. Do any others having Adelphia, Comcast, Time warner etc have this problem? Sure would like to get this fixed. Any help that I could pass on to Armstrong would be appreciated.

Sounds like an Armstrong or Moto box problem to me. I do notice a difference in volume level going from the HD stations to the regular stations (on Wide Open West on the SA3250HD and SA8000HD), but I don't notice any fluctuations within individual channels. On the SA boxes there's a "wide/narrow" dynamic range setting on the audio that people have reported may help with the problem you describe - maybe you want to see if the Motorola box has such a setting?

-- Paul

Originally posted by oldavnut
Thanks, jts.
I found a DVR thread talking about SA8000 you participated, and learned a lot. Now, DVI will be activated on September earliest. Although someone said the difference between DVI and components is marginal in the thread, it seems too obvious to me. I'm considering changing back to HD box until DVI in SA8000 is activated. Other consideration is tweaking DVR box to optimum. Any thought?

Don't know if this is possible - but are you sure the SA8000 is set up correctly to output in 720p or 1080i mode? Because I don't really see a difference between DVI and components, and I think I'm pretty picky about PQ...

The reason I say that is I got a Hughes HTL-HD on D* last week and was checking out the HD channels (no I did not read any directions :p ) and although it looked "pretty good" something did not seem right... When I read the directions, I discovered the box was outputting 480p at all times instead of going "native" depending on the input signal... Once I pressed the "format" button to correctly pass thru the signals, what a difference, LOL...

-- Paul

Originally posted by roblake
I haven't sprung for the HDVR box yet. I'm wondering: I want to record some of the Olympics in HD, but then re-record it to VHS tape in SD. Can the HDVR box Adelphia provides do this?

You *should* be able to do this, as the SA8000HD has a set of "VCR archive" jacks (composite video, and L/R audio). There was a thread on how to do this yesterday, but I can't find it now. How you do it changes slightly depending on the software rev in the STB.

Update: I just tried this, and it worked. In your list of recorded items, there is a "copy to VCR" option. Cool feature - while the box is playing the archived item out the composite jack for "VCR archive" connection, you can continue to watch TV!

Note: I crashed the box hard trying to play back an HDNet recording while I was recording tonight's ESPNHD baseball game - I guess such is the nature of this "beta" STB software we're playing with, LOL...

-- Paul

Adelphia's combo box is using SARA v. 182.8.1

Did anyone catch Fox testing the HD system last night? I recorded the North Shore on my HD TiVo and they had Super Bowl 36 on which looked fantastic.

It's good to see that they are ready to go.

I am out here in Avon and I am thinking about switching from Direct TV to adelphia primarily for the HD DVR and I have few questions.

1. Is the HD DVR box out, customer service says no, but a quick glance from this forum seems to indicate that it is. If it is, how is it? How many hours does it record and does it have a DVI output?

2. Is ESPN HD currently available, again a disagreement between Customer service and there own web page.

3. Is the hd service through adelphia reliable?

Thanks

John

Originally posted by cristo28
1. Is the HD DVR box out, customer service says no, but a quick glance from this forum seems to indicate that it is. If it is, how is it? How many hours does it record and does it have a DVI output?

2. Is ESPN HD currently available, again a disagreement between Customer service and there own web page.

3. Is the hd service through adelphia reliable?
Yes, the HD DVR is out. It works well, and can hold about 20 hours of HD. It has a DVI output, but DVI is not active yet on it. A firmware update will be sent by Adelphia to the box sometime this fall to activate it.

Yes, ESPN HD is available on channel 752. It's part of the HD Plus package. Don't expect much HD content on it, though - much of what they broadcast is still SD.

Based on my experience of the last week or so, the HD service is not particularly reliable. I've had many major dropouts causing the screen to lock up or go blank for minutes at a time. In one case, the DVR simply stopped recording a show right in the middle of it because the signal vanished. I don't know whether or not others are having this problem - I intend to call Adelphia to set a service person to take a look at it. Interestingly, though, this problem has only been occuring for the last week or so. There's been no change here that might have triggered it, but two new neighbors have moved in recently, so there may have been some cable activity in the area.

DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.

Regards,

John

Originally posted by bubblegum1647
Can someone tell me if they have and sound problems when watching digital cable? I live in Medina have Armstrong cable, Have HD DVR Motorola 6400 box. Have ESPNHD, HDNET, HDNET MOVIES. PBS, and Locals.

So which PBS station is broadcasting HD? Is this a Cleveland local? Wondering if someone has the equipment just not the broadcasting capability yet.

Originally posted by cristo28
DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input?
I've never noted any difference between DVI and component. The component outputs of the SA8000HD look fine to me. When they get the DVI working, I'll give it a try, but for now I'm getting an excellent picture.

I think I remember 90 being cited as the number of hours of SD, but don't hold me to that.

No, there's no input for an antenna. It wouldn't be very useful anyway, since this is a QAM tuner and OTA signals are broadcast in 8VSB. I agree that I'd like the ability to capture shows over the air as well as over cable, but it would take a lot more than just an additional input to do that.

Originally posted by cristo28
DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.


At the risk of being flamed, there is no perceptible difference between component and DVI (at least on my 42" plasma). I wouldn't let that stop you from getting the unit...

SA website says with 80GB HD, you get 30 to 50 hrs of SD recording, and these 8000HD boxes have 160GB drives, so I guess you should be in the 60 - 100 hour range with SD.

This is a good thread on the SA8000HD, especially the first couple messages describing the features:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421666&highlight=8000hd

There's no external antenna input. Here's a link to the setup guide with all the hookups:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/4001025B.pdf


-- Paul

Thanks to all, your info has been great. How do others who have the service view those local station that are broadcast in HD but not yet on adephia. Imparticularly cbs and the soon to be hd fox.

Regards,

John

If you only have cable you don't watch the HD channels of CBS and Fox. Otherwise, you can get an over the air HD receiver.

In my case, I have Directv and Adelphia so I get ABC, CBS, Fox & UPN via over the air and NBC via Adelphia.

I think someone said that Fox HD is in the works for Adelphia when they go live in Sept.

ZManCartFan,
The local PBS stations that are currently broadcasting digitally are WNEO channel 46 in Alliance and WEAO channel 50 in Akron. Titantv.com is an excellent resource to see what stations are broadcasting and what they are broadcasting. Antennaweb.org can give you the station's transmitter compass direction and distance from your location.
Steve

Originally posted by Shark73
If you only have cable you don't watch the HD channels of CBS and Fox.

...unless you have cable via Wide Open West :D

Originally posted by paule123
...unless you have cable via Wide Open West :D

Very good point!

Originally posted by cristo28
DVI not active? how is the quality of the HD without a DVI? The HD DVR records 20 hours of HD, how many hours of SD then? Will the dvr allow me to add an external antenna input? Thanks for all your help.

Regards,

John

A lot of people said no difference or marginal difference. To me there is a lot of difference, especially SD, compared to Adelphia HD box (no DVR). I set it 1080i for HD channels and 480i for SD. If 720p for HD, picture is stretched. HD-DVR is not automatically convert signals, whereas regular HD box with DVI connection is automatically converting.
Since I'm a novice in this area, I'll accept any other opinions and different set up ideas.
Thanks.

I agree with the others that the current picture quality through component (talking Adelphia here) is excellent. I was somewhat skeptical at what might be the result of having the costly ISF calibration on my set (a GWII) but the results coupled with cable HD (true HD) stations is oustandingly sharp and colorful. It will be difficult to achieve improvement, in my opinion, when DVI is activated.

I also have to admit, while it was a long wait, the current HD offerings and cost from Adelphia are quite attractive. I am less skeptical now on how long it will be before the remaining HD channels will arrive on cable and look forward to this additional programming.

While I have complained a lot in the past, facing a potential move to an area with limited cable/OA HD offerings, I must admit I am likely to miss what is currently available in the Cleveland area (never thought I would say that!)

Speaking of calibration, anybody getting it done anytime soon? I know there's at least one local person who is ISF certified, but I don't know anything about him. I don't think there are any out-of-town visitors coming through...

Thanks to everyone for there replies, Adelphia offered me free installation with no commitment so what the heck sounds like nothing to loose, so I think I will give it a go.

Regards to all!!!

John

Originally posted by SteveC
ZManCartFan,
The local PBS stations that are currently broadcasting digitally are WNEO channel 46 in Alliance and WEAO channel 50 in Akron. Titantv.com is an excellent resource to see what stations are broadcasting and what they are broadcasting. Antennaweb.org can give you the station's transmitter compass direction and distance from your location.
Steve
If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina. I get WDLI from Canton just fine (RF channel 39), and it's farther away and supposedly has about the same ERP.

WVIZ-DT has special temporary authorization to broadcast at 1kW from their Brookpark studio location, but that won't get very far, if they're even on the air at that.

Originally posted by techweb
If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina. I get WDLI from Canton just fine (RF channel 39), and it's farther away and supposedly has about the same ERP.

WVIZ-DT has special temporary authorization to broadcast at 1kW from their Brookpark studio location, but that won't get very far, if they're even on the air at that.

FWIW, I can't get any of them either in Medina. The antennas for WEAO and WVIZ are listed as being in the same general direction as (most of) the other Cleveland stations. I can't get WDLI at all, but I've got the antenna aimed more toward Cleveland. That's why I asked what Armstrong was broadcasting. Wonder if it's a national feed?

WRAP TV Cleveland ????

I was watching "tvo" (television Ontario, PBS I guess) channel 32 when I noticed a pretty strong beat on it and moved the antenna from 330 degrees to 350 degrees and found a station that plays an endless steam of info-mercials
that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland". I guess its legal. Anyone else notice this robotic piece of trash
on the air?

Dan

http://www.tvo.org/

Originally posted by intermod
WRAP TV Cleveland ????

that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland".


Sounds more like WcRAP.

Originally posted by intermod
WRAP TV Cleveland ????

I was watching "tvo" (television Ontario, PBS I guess) channel 38 when I noticed a pretty strong beat on it and moved the antenna from 330 degrees to 350 degrees and found a station that plays an endless steam of info-mercials
that ID'ed with a crawler across the top of the screen that said "WRAP Cleveland". I guess its legal. Anyone else notice this robotic piece of trash
on the air?

Dan

http://www.tvo.org/

Looks like it's legal, though hard to google any good info on it.

WRAP-CA (Channel 32; CLEVELAND, OH; Owner: COMMERCIAL BROADCASTING CORP.)

"CA" means "Class A" television service which looks like a classification somewhat above Low Power television service. Here's some info:
http://www.wcsr.com/FSL5CS/telecommunicationmemos/telecommunicationmemos1145.asp

Another google search found "infomercials" as their primary programming type...

> WRAP TV Cleveland ????

They were associated with WAOH TV-29 Akron (also LPTV)... Same company that owns WNIR-FM, WJMP-AM Kent

> If WEAO digital is on the air, I can't pick it up in Medina.

I've been told the digital STL is up and power has been applied to the DTV50 transmitter... should be soon...

Ed...

Channel 1 on Adelphia is announcing a special HD channel (Channel 710) for the NBC HD olympics coverage. There is discussion of the specific programming here:

NBC HD Olympic Coverage (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=432732)

Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday. Dont know what time it started.
This is the DT for channel 49 affiliated with 45/46 etc PBS Akron/Kent
They seem to be showing the same HD content as 46.

Originally posted by bassguitarman
Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday... the same HD content as 46.

I assume you're receiving these OTA.

And about where do you live?

PBS - HD-50 has started broadcating from their tower in Copley, Ohio. This is WEAO/WNEO 45/49. They have been broadcastin HD-46 from the Salem tower for several months now. Copley is 10 miles west of Akron. I live 8 miles north of the tower on the Richfield/Bath border and the signal was strong and picture clear. This is great news since WVIZ seems to be farther away than ever from getting their HD launched. Here is a link to their coverage map for those of you farther north.


http://www.pbs4549.org/COVERMAP.HTM

Finally PBS HD in Cleveland. I dont like the multicasting but all PBS does it so there's no point in complaining.

Pickin the signal up solid in Westlake.

I still can't get NBC 3-1. I live in Shaker Heights in a two story house. I played with the antenna in my attic to no avail.
Here is the link to the manual for my antenna:
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/Manuals/OME15-2151.pdf

I have a long coaxial cable going from the antenna to my receiver.
The only thing I'm NOT doing is using a splitter at the end of my cable before it goes into the HDTV receiver. I don't think that would make a difference....

Help me please!
Thanks,
Rick

3-1 is carrying winter game highlites while 3 has the opening of the 224 summer olympics. Strange, BUT 3.1 is broadcasting in 5.1! Is this a first for clelveand HiDef?

The HD feed is delayed an hour from the SD feed. It's been planned that way since the HD schedule was released.


If it's 5.1 than that is a first for the Cleveland market. Fox will have 5.1 once they go HD in Sept.

It's definitely 5.1. The winter highlights also look spectacular!

I'm here in Brooklyn Heights just a short distance from the Parma antenna farm area of Channels 3...5 and 8 area and also a Directv sub. Im close to converting to HD as football season is getting close. Question is will I be able to get by with the clip-on type antenna or would I be better off getting a standard OTA antenna if so which type would be best. Sorry for the newbie questions. Thanks.

Originally posted by DCSholtis
Im close to converting to HD as football season is getting close. Question is will I be able to get by with the clip-on type antenna or would I be better off getting a standard OTA antenna...

Nobody knows beforehand. Being close is not necessarily good.

Were I there, I'd start with a clip-on. Because big is not necessarily better for you in that location.

Originally posted by rdalcanto
I still can't get NBC 3-1. I live in Shaker Heights in a two story house. I played with the antenna in my attic to no avail.
Here is the link to the manual for my antenna:
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/Manuals/OME15-2151.pdf

I have a long coaxial cable going from the antenna to my receiver.
The only thing I'm NOT doing is using a splitter at the end of my cable before it goes into the HDTV receiver. I don't think that would make a difference....

Help me please!
Thanks,
Rick

I live in Shaker too, and if you don't want to go with a roof mount antenna, the best thing for me was the Zenith Silver Sensor in a window on the 3rd floor aimed at the Parma antenna farm. I tried big-ass Radio Shack antennas (VU-120), the big ChannelMaster UHF bowtie array, and the Silver Sensor outperformed them both. IMO, you will not have any luck inside the attic - I tried that - the roof blocks too much signal. It's got to be in a window, and even that is flaky. Putting an antenna outside and up high is the only sure bet.

You definitely want a direct, non-stop, no splitters, coax feed to the HD receiver. You do not want to split it with the old fashioned VHF/UHF adapters - the HD receiver takes care of that. In my experience, amplifiers will not help either.

BTW, because of all the problems getting HD OTA in Cleveland, I finally gave up and went with WOW Cable, and have been very pleased. Watching TV shouldn't be such a major science project.

-- Paul

The Olympics on NBC in hi-def just might stir up more interest in receiving over the air. Maybe WKYC will receive enough calls from people having trouble with the signal that improvements will be made.

Really enjoying the coverage in HD. Except for the occasional dropout (which I always get with Ch 3) I think the picture is exceptional. Also, I believe this is the first time DD5.1 has been broadcast for a local Cleveland TV station. I was really surprised when my Dolby D display lit up on my Denon receiver. Just an added plus! Just wish Ch 8 would get the equipment and WVIZ would get their act together!

If anyone's keeping score, DirecTV is offering the same feed of NBC HD Olympics coverage on Channel 84 as is what's being shown on 3-1. Even though we're not an O&O market, I guess the deal was negotiated to include those areas that are also have at least one cable market that distributes NBC HD through the cable system.

I haven't had cable in years, but I've never been so grateful for it being available. Picture is great, and no dropouts!

ZManCartFan do you have the ability to take a picture of your TV or get a screen capture of the DirecTV feed and the WKYC feeds of the olympics.

I would love to send them in to Channel 3 showing how crappy their station looks because of the multicasting.

Originally posted by Shark73
If it's 5.1 than that is a first for the Cleveland market. Fox will have 5.1 once they go HD in Sept.
Some Fox programs like "The Casino" are starting to show up in my EPG as being in HD, so they may be ready for HD now. Fox is carrying a football game this Thursday, so we'll see if it's in HD or not.

Fox 8 is ready for the HD conversion. Everything was upgraded about a month ago. The first true HD from Fox is scheduled for Sept 12th.

Wow,
Just turned on the Olympics for the first time and couldn't believe it, 5.1 from an OTA local. Had to check here to see if it was true. I wonder if this will get any of the other locals broadcasting in 5.1. Really nice to see this.
Jeff

Originally posted by Mike_Stuewe
ZManCartFan do you have the ability to take a picture of your TV or get a screen capture of the DirecTV feed and the WKYC feeds of the olympics.

I would love to send them in to Channel 3 showing how crappy their station looks because of the multicasting.

The best I could do would be a digital camera shot. And without the ability to pause the picture, I don't know how directly comparable of a shot I could get.

Oh, and truthfully. With the compression on D*, it's about the same. Maybe a little less motion artifact on D*, but that would be really tough to capture.

Also, the schedule gets pretty busy starting tonight. Married with two kids, full time career, the works. Starting law school tomorrow.

What am I thinking? :confused:

Other than I think I'll watch as much HD as I can tonight. :D

Zman, you are also probably 29 years-old. Slow down and chill out.

On a happier note, the true-HD ads for Channel 3's newscasts look stunning. I didn't realize KYC had HD cameras lying around...they should use them more often:)

Originally posted by Smak Runner 2K
On a happier note, the true-HD ads for Channel 3's newscasts look stunning. I didn't realize KYC had HD cameras lying around...they should use them more often:)

When they went digital a year or so ago they acquired a lot of SONY digital cameras. They even used them for HD for a week or so. Then they drew back -- maybe because NBC was anti-HD for a while.

I think WVIZ had their HD equipment since 1999 and it is yet to be used.

Does anyone know if there are still HD DVR units available. I was just told there weren't by CS.

I just got two last week. CS on the 800 # didn't know anything about hd dvr, I set up my install with just a Hd box then went into the North Olmsted location and she physically changed my order to reflect that I wanted 2 hd dvr boxes. All I can say is that I got it installed last week with both hd dvr boxes. Hope this helps.

John

My wife needs a high speed modem installed to work from home. I am having Comcast come out Friday and install a cable modem along with a High Def receiver to compare to my present DISH network system. I can use it for 29 days and then decide to either drop the DISH or keep the DISH and drop the High Def receiver for a standard cable service to get a better rate on the cable modem. I am quite pleased with the DISH. Ive had DISH service for about 8 years now but I probably will not be keeping both High Def services.

Can I get any feedback about the quality of the Comcast HD signal vs DISH or Direct TV signal? Audio, Video, navigating through channels, setup, anything I should look for to compare the two would be appreciated.

Thanks for any input.

Ray

Nice try NBC,

I think its great that NBC beat the other locals to the punch by being the first station in the Cleveland area to broadcast 5.1 audio.

Its unfortunate that they did nothing to the quality of their signal so now the numerous dropouts can be heard in glorious 5.1 Dolby surround. Friday evening 3-1 had a great solid steady picture but it has reverted back to its typically unwatchable quality. I would suspect that they bumped the signal power Friday for the Olympic opening ceremonies. The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.

Anyone else notice this?

Ray

Originally posted by Rbuchina
Can I get any feedback about the quality of the Comcast HD signal vs DISH or Direct TV signal? Audio, Video, navigating through channels, setup, anything I should look for to compare the two would be appreciated.


I have had all the services at the same time. I have dropped Comcast digital/hidef.

Negatives for me: Terrible program guide. Low function. Hard to use.

Picture quality was different. So I had to adjust color/tint everytime I switched to Comcast or back onto another source. All my hidef comes through a switch so that there's only one input into the TV.

Lack of all local HDTV stations -- or any PBS HD.

Their web site is about 9 months behind what they really offer.

Plus for me: A few good offerings on INHD1 and INHD2 that are exclusive to the Comcast source.

I just picked up an HD DVR at the North Olmsted office. No hassles. They just kind of smile when you ask why the 800 number people don't know anything.

Originally posted by Rbuchina
Nice try NBC,
The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.

Anyone else notice this?

Ray

I've noticed the same erratic behavior. Sunday night, 3-1 came thru perfectly. I was thrilled. Monday morning?? "searching for signal" - "searching for signal". Completely gone again. When the signal does come thru, it seems to be stronger when there's lots of moisture in the air like right before a storm.

I went to Circuit City and got the Motorola receiver. I now get 3-1. Looks like the problem is with my old Zenith. Maybe a firmware upgrade will solve the problem with that one.

Thanks,
Rick

Originally posted by bassguitarman
Channel 50 DT (HD) showed up yesterday. Dont know what time it started.
This is the DT for channel 49 affiliated with 45/46 etc PBS Akron/Kent
They seem to be showing the same HD content as 46.
It's nice to finally have PBS HD in this area. Their signal pegs the meter here in Medina. Channel 3 is the only digital station in this area that doesn't come in full strength, but I receive it just fine too most of the time.

PBS 46-1 and 46-2 coming in loud and clear in Shaker Heights, OTA, Samsung SIR-T165 and Silver Sensor...

-- Paul

Finally have a PBS station in HD in Brook Park. Yahoo. Looks very nice. Anyone know if they are doing DD5.1?

Jim

Originally posted by rdalcanto
I went to Circuit City and got the Motorola receiver. I now get 3-1. Looks like the problem is with my old Zenith. Maybe a firmware upgrade will solve the problem with that one.

Thanks,
Rick

Which old Zenith did you have
What made you decide to try the Motorola ?

Its unfortunate that they did nothing to the quality of their signal so now the numerous dropouts can be heard in glorious 5.1 Dolby surround. Friday evening 3-1 had a great solid steady picture but it has reverted back to its typically unwatchable quality. I would suspect that they bumped the signal power Friday for the Olympic opening ceremonies. The weather has been quite clear since than so I must conclude the signal has been dialed back to its minimally acceptable level recently.
I would be highly surprised if WKYC-DT fiddles with their power on channel 2. I'm sure they're pushing every bit of the 8,000 watts they're licensed for -- No more, no less.

There are many factors that can change "signal level" on VHF-Low. The weather could be clear as possible, but if there is just a little of that pesky 60Hz noise coming from a neighbor's house or power line (even if minimally visible on an analog VHF-Low station), it will twiddle a few bits in the 8VSB OTA signal. Most receivers report the signal level based on an inverse of the bit-error rate, not the actual signal strength. So, even if the dBmv level of WKYC-DT ch2 from your antenna remains unchanged, the effective level of reception will decrease.

I get exactly the same results tuning in WBBM-DT ch3 Chicago. The weather could be exactly the same day to day, with no evidence of E-Skip or tropo-enhancement (addl factors, BTW), and yet the "signal level" reported by the tuner varies several dB. WBBM-DT is running a steady 3.7kW.

One final factor: The last few days there have been lines of storms running from Iowa, south of Chicago, across Indiana and into Ohio. It's highly possible that stations such as WBBM-TV Chicago, WTWO Terre Haute, WWMT-DT Grand Rapids, and especially WJBK Detroit may have been picking away at your local WKYC-DT signal. I've been getting stations from 100 to 200 miles away on VHF over the past few days; tropo-enhancement can be pretty widespread.

Here's a kewl site on the subject:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

PhilJSmith67,

Thanks for the informative reply. I agree with everything you say. But...WKYC still presents the worst reception of all the Cleveland locals to my home.

Ray

Originally posted by alfbinet
Finally have a PBS station in HD in Brook Park. Yahoo. Looks very nice. Anyone know if they are doing DD5.1?

Jim
I've watched a few PBS HD programs on 46-1, but haven't seen any DD5.1. 3-1 has DD5.1 for the olympics, but there have been some dropouts, possibly due to marginal signal in my area.

I get my hd through comcast and wkyc is the only station that gives me problems. Does anyone know how comcast gets their hd feeds. I was on the phone with my friend and he gets wkyc ota and i get it through comcast and the channel was messing up the same time for both of us. I just wish wkyc would fix their problem. Yesterday it was watchable but for around 4 hours a couple days ago it was completely unwatchable.

Good news, appears Adelphia has updated the firmware on the SA8000HD. I now have the copy to VCR option, the space available and block a show. Still no record only new or the pass through/fixed options for HD. And I have no clue about DVI yet, need to pick up a DVI cable, but figured I would let people know that the firmware has been updated.

WVIZ-HD is on!!!!

From the brookpark rd. studio. 26.1 only, I dont see any multicasting.
Looks like they are low power and of course the antenna is in a hole.

Dan

Hey everyone. Long time member/poster, but first time here. I'm receiving my HDTV tuner any day now.

I live in North Royalton and am mostly concerned about getting NBC/ABC HDTV feeds from Cleveland. Considering my distance, can anyone recommend a couple good antennas to consider?

-Robert

Originally posted by Valnar
Hey everyone. Long time member/poster, but first time here. I'm receiving my HDTV tuner any day now.

I live in North Royalton and am mostly concerned about getting NBC/ABC HDTV feeds from Cleveland. Considering my distance, can anyone recommend a couple good antennas to consider?

-Robert

I would start with a Zenith Silver Sensor, an amazing little indoor antenna. If that doesn't work out for you, go directly to the largest Radio Shack old-school outdoor VHF/UHF antenna (VU-120 if I remember correctly). Avoid "miracle" products from Terk. When all of this does not work, call your friendly local cable company and order their HD package. :D

Always remember, there is no free lunch in this HDTV OTA reception game.

-- Paul

Originally posted by paule123
I would start with a Zenith Silver Sensor, an amazing little indoor antenna. If that doesn't work out for you, go directly to the largest Radio Shack old-school outdoor VHF/UHF antenna (VU-120 if I remember correctly). Avoid "miracle" products from Terk. When all of this does not work, call your friendly local cable company and order their HD package.

Always remember, there is no free lunch in this HDTV OTA reception game.

-- Paul

The Silver Sensor will not get the NBC signal.

Jim

Sorry for the newbie questions, which I really shouldn't be asking considering how long I've been in this whole game. But I haven't needed an antenna in 20 years since I went to cable.

Anywhoo.... do I need both UHF/VHF? What channels are the Cleveland stations broadcasting their HDTV feeds? I only care about OTA HDTV, not regular analog.

I've read a little about the Winegard PR-4400 which is UHF only. Do I need VHF?

-Robert

You need both UHF/VHF. NBC is on channel 2-1

Originally posted by Shark73
The Silver Sensor will not get the NBC signal.

Jim

I would never say "never" -- it picks up 3-1 for me in Shaker...

My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.

I don't mind spending a little money to get it right the first time. If there is something better than what is at Radio Shack, I'll order it. Unfortunately, I live in a cluster home and the association frowns upon big massive antennas, although they don't seem to mind all the DirecTV dishes popping up here and there. I need some small, but good.

Robert

Originally posted by paule123
I would never say "never" -- it picks up 3-1 for me in Shaker...

I'm shocked! I thought the Sensor was only UHF?

Originally posted by Valnar
My only HDTV tuner is the MyHD MDP-120 which is coming for my HTPC. I assume I need something that does QAM to receive HDTV over cable? If not, then I'll spend the $6 and get it through my cable, so long as I can use this PCI card. I have Wide Open West in North Royalton.

I don't mind spending a little money to get it right the first time. If there is something better than what is at Radio Shack, I'll order it. Unfortunately, I live in a cluster home and the association frowns upon big massive antennas, although they don't seem to mind all the DirecTV dishes popping up here and there. I need some small, but good.

Robert

I've got a MDP-120 too, and it doesn't do QAM.

You're a lucky man, you've got WOW cable like me - just get the WOW HD service and save yourself a bunch of headaches with the antenna routine. Even if you get the antenna up and running you still won't have DiscoveryHD or ESPNHD or HDNet. I just got the SA8000HD DVR from WOW and I love it. ($12.99/mo)