OK guys, I pulled the trigger last night. I purchased an LG 37LG30 HD (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/LG-37-LCD-HDTV-37LG30/sem/rpsm/oid/206149/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do)TV to replace my Sony Wega 30" HD ready TV. It will fit in my entertainment center just great and has great specs.

I originally was thinking of 1080p but I couldn't find anything that was larger then 32" to work with and I didn't want just a 2" diagonal change. My other HDTV is still working quite well it's just big and bulky and as I said it's lost just a little bit on the edges. Only really noticeable on certain logos like FOX'S and ABC. Half the X is cut off on the FOX logo. And I received a PM from HD MM and not to stir up controversey he mentioned that in his opinion 1080p was overated and I might just consider 720p and he also mentioned bigger. Also bigger makes it more justifiable with the wife.;)

I will pick up this TV today. Once again I'm reminding you. If anyone wants my Sony Wega KV-30HS420 I am offering it for free. Got a relative or kid? Some friend you've been trying to introduce to HDTV. It's free. I've got the manual. Just PM me.

There is a guy at work that is kind of interested but he doesn't know that much about televisions and he asked stupid questions like "is it cable ready?" I don't like the guy that much and rather not have him at my house, I'd sooner give it to one of you guys.

So let me know, please.

........... And I received a PM from HD MM and not to stir up controversey he mentioned that in his opinion 1080p was overated and I might just consider 720p and he also mentioned bigger. Also bigger makes it more justifiable with the wife.;)..................

HD MM is absolutely correct, especially with smaller screen sizes (less than 42"). Unless you are into HD gaming, HDM (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) and/or have a much larger screen (50" range) than 1080p would make little if any difference from normal viewing distances. :)

Same is true for the difference between 720p and 1080i. From a normal viewing distance, again especially for smaller screens, there is virtually no recognizable difference in PQ.

Congrat's on the new TV Hook. To echo Toby, 720p on that size set and seating from a normal distance will work well for you. I'm also glad you opted to go with the 37" instead of the 32". IMO, substituting a 32" 1080p (original set you had in mind) for a 37" 720p for a similar price was a good move. The additional 5" should benefit you more than 1080p at that size.

I see an entire weekend of calibrating and sitting in front of the new HDTV in store for you! Enjoy! :D

IMO, the advantage of 1080p isn't fully taken advantage of unless sitting at an ideal distance from the screen. This is where 1080p would benefit over 720p.

From Electronic House...... (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/size_matters_hdtv_projectors_and_big_screens/C91)

THX recommends that a 42-in. 1080p set be viewed from four feet away. And if you want to sit seven feet way, THX says the HDTV should be at least 70-in.! (The THX calculation distance calculation is diagonal screen size divided by .84—see THX Home Setup. (http://www.thx.com/home/setup/display.html))

Do you have WBNX-HD? I'm in the Canton/N.Canton area nad have had different new HD channels off and on over the last couple months, but they're here fore one day then gone the next. I thought we were set a few weeks ago when WB-HD came in for 2 days and then it was gone. Still waiting here for things to settle I guess.
I've been wondering if something was wrong with my line, since others in Canton had reported getting WB-HD. How 'bout u?

No. I have yet to notice WBNX-HD on my QAM channels here in N. Canton.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I've found this chart to be very useful to illustrate which resolutions work best for viewing distance and screen size. It might not be THX standards, but I'm guessing it's a little more realistic.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I've found this chart to be very useful to illustrate which resolutions work best for viewing distance and screen size. It might not be THX standards, but I'm guessing it's a little more realistic.

You're right Terry, that illustration is a bit more realistic. I'd imagine the THX recommendations are more for a dedicated room with a front projector and screen.

FWIW, while the perceptible difference between a 720p and 1080p decreases as the ratio of viewing distace to screen size increases, there are other considerations that affect the quality of the image.

Also, while there are exceptions in the video processing sequence that vary from component to component, I believe the following is typical for a majority of TVs out there today.

With a 1080p TV, a 1080p Blu-ray signal is digitally mapped 1:1 from the source providing the process for the best possible image. A 1080i TV signal is deinterlaced and (signal compression from your provider aside) can theoretically provide a 1080p-like experience if the deinterlacer (on either the TV or the decoder box) is capable. A 720p TV signal will need to be scaled to 1080p, so the potential for artifacts and a fuzzier picture exists.

A "720p" LCD TV has an actual pixel resolution of 1366 x 768, so there is zero chance of getting 1:1 digital pixel mapping from any source (except for maybe a PC over an analog VGA connection). Every HD image (720p, 1080i, 1080p) must be scaled by the TV to fit the screen, and with the cases of 1080i, deinterlaced as well. Depending upon the TV, the process could entail a down-res to 540 then upscaling to 1366x768. So, in-effect, a 1080p Blu-ray disk may only deliver 540 lines of resolution to the TV - not much more than a standard 480-line DVD. Also, even a 720p TV image, the purported "native" mode will need to be upscaled to 1366x768 (not a large jump, but still, not native).

Hope this helps.

P.S. Do you think this information would be helpful in convincing the wife that I need to upgrade my 720p projector and 1366x768 LCD TV to 1080p?

One other thing concerning internet dropouts, I have a Linksys wireless router and my old cordless phone would block the signal from the router whenever it rang. QUite annoying.

One other thing concerning internet dropouts, I have a Linksys wireless router and my old cordless phone would block the signal from the router whenever it rang. QUite annoying.

Yup. Though usually changing to another of the 11 channels on the router greatly reduces that interference problem. This same interference problem can happen with WiFi routers nearby sharing the same feq and channel.

My laptop WiFi picks up 8 different WiFi networks around my home. My network is on ch. 11, someone else is on ch. 4. All the rest are on the factory default ch. 6. Although I wasn't getting any signal drops due to interference, by me switching from ch. 6 to ch. 11 I gained about a 20% increase in signal strength as I am now not competing with all the other ch. 6's. :)

Another fix is to upgrade (or downgrade) your cordless phone. WiFi G is 2.4ghz so if your phone is also 2.4ghz there can be interference issues. Upgrade the phone to 5.8ghz or downgrade the phone to 900mhz.

I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive. I tried calling TWC tech line and explained the situation and that I was using a QAM tuner. Low and behold, the lady didn't understand what I was telling her. I explained in more detail and after being put on hold a few times I was told that if I wasn't willing to rent another HD box from TWC they couldn't help me. It would seem, in my opinion, that if they are going to broadcast the digital and HD free feeds over their cable then the tech support should understand how this works and that a person doesn't need the cable box. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on how to resolve this, contact, etc.. please let me know. I'd have to send an e-mail about something this trivial to the main contact you all talk about for something that, to me at least, shouldn't be hard to communicate and get an answer on.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

On account of her being such a bitch, I'd make sure I included her name in my email to Steve Fry. The problem is trivial, but the service is not. She should have made sure to forward the info to the engineers working on the project. I think it is probably a glitch within the new "realignment phase" going on right now. Again, I personally would email Fry and complain of the customer service you received with a request to fix the mapping.

I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive..........

Did you do a full QAM scan? QAM tuners need to scan the entire system of available ch.'s to tune in the ch.'s that are in the clear.

Also, I highly doubt FOX ch. 8 in HD will be on 8-1 via clear QAM. The HD feeds are usually in the 300 to 700 range and have no correspondence to the actual ch #. I think as long as the analog feeds are mapped correctly the cable co. is under no obligation to properly map the HD feeds via clear QAM.

QAM is free, and you get what you pay for. :D

Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:

Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".

Please check and report back. Thanks :D

Time Warner Cable Navigator™

NAVIGATOR is the new on-screen program guide designed to enhance the way you find what to watch on television. It's the smartest and easiest way to watch television ever.

The innovative new Time Warner Cable Navigator will change the way you watch television by making it amazingly simple to watch and record the shows you care about most. This new guide features the most comprehensive redesign in digital cable history, bringing you the kind of ease and options you’ve always wanted, as well as some you never dreamed of.

New enhancements include easier-to-understand screens, a consolidated Access Menu and a guide to what’s on now. Plus, this new platform will allow us to add more new channels and HD channels.

This description from their website sounds like a loaf of crap. But check out the statement in bold. Add more new HD channels. Sounds like SDV may be coming soon here.

Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:

Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".

Please check and report back. Thanks :D

The SARA IPG shows 2.5 Men on 406 (WUAB-HD) They are in fact showing the Cavs game.

If you want to watch the game in HD, it is on ESPN2HD (431).

Do a complete scan and Fox 8 should show up on 8.1 - TWC
provides all the network HD channels with basic cable - Free HD.

Do a complete scan and Fox 8 should show up on 8.1 - TWC
provides all the network HD channels with basic cable - Free HD.

I saw a model of Hitachi set that insisted on adding .1 to some channel numbers, i.e. 5.1 would show up as 5,2 and 8.1 would show up as 8.2. Weird.

Thanks everyone. I did perform a full scan twice this week and 8.1 still maps to WJW HD. I think I'll e-mail Steve Fry.

I did try to tun into channel 300 but it states my signal strength is too low. I purchased a 13.00 booster from RatShack but it didn't work at all w/ my Sharp. Either I got a bad unit or have a bad cable. Anyway, I'll e-mail and keep testing things out.

Thanks all.

Thanks everyone. I did perform a full scan twice this week and 8.1 still maps to WJW HD. I think I'll e-mail Steve Fry.

I did try to tun into channel 300 but it states my signal strength is too low. I purchased a 13.00 booster from RatShack but it didn't work at all w/ my Sharp. Either I got a bad unit or have a bad cable. Anyway, I'll e-mail and keep testing things out.

Thanks all.

Channel 8.1 is WJW-HD. Did something change?

What's channel 300? There isn't a 300 but there is a 301-ESPN.

I always thought my Sony Wega was a great TV. I felt real bad taking it out of commision.

Then I set up my new LG 37LG30.

I turned it on and put my recording of the FOX 8 evening news on off my TiVo S3. I nearly freaked out, I could not believe how good the picture was. I didn't have a chance to do a calibration so I just set it in Cinema Mode. My wife comes downstairs comes down stairs and I said "look, you can not only see the entire Fox logo, you can see beyond it." Then she said "That's not what I noticed. Look at the detail (Dick Goddards Weather Map)."

Anyway we watched Desperate Housewives and she kept remarking about how she could really see the difference.

I've had several people pm me about the Wega. Right now HD MM has claims on it but I told him to get back to me by tomorrow or else the next person in line was going to get it. I don't want that thing in my garage, I'm afraid I'll back up and hit it.:eek:

So HD MM, I want to see an email by tomorrow morning. I sent you a pm.

I'm hoping someone can point me to the correct contact for this issue at TWC. I live in Mayfield Heights and just picked up a Sharp LCD for my bedroom. I am using the QAM tuner to get the HD and Digital channels. When I try to go to Fox HD (8.001) I end up receiving channel 5 in HD. This seems to me that the mapping at TWC is incorrect.. but I'm not 100% positive. I tried calling TWC tech line and explained the situation and that I was using a QAM tuner. Low and behold, the lady didn't understand what I was telling her. I explained in more detail and after being put on hold a few times I was told that if I wasn't willing to rent another HD box from TWC they couldn't help me. It would seem, in my opinion, that if they are going to broadcast the digital and HD free feeds over their cable then the tech support should understand how this works and that a person doesn't need the cable box. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on how to resolve this, contact, etc.. please let me know. I'd have to send an e-mail about something this trivial to the main contact you all talk about for something that, to me at least, shouldn't be hard to communicate and get an answer on.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry


I live in University Heights and Fox 8HD is 8-1, NBCHD is 3-1, ABC HD is 5-1, 43 HD is 43-1, PBS HD is 25-1, TNT HD is 88-3, WBNX HD is 102-1, STO is 106-1, Discovery HD is 86-3. Today I did a scan and received 77 analog and 86 digital. I actually tuned into Starz on Demand with the qam tuner and watched a movie. As soon as the movie ended the tv went to channel 1 by itself. There are a handful of new blank -1 channels. I hope they will have something on them soon. As for TWC they have no clue about QAM. When Fox HD was unavailable during the Super Bowl the lady insisted there was no way I could get HD without their box. I of course kept trying to tell her she was wrong. She kept putting me on hold to check with others and finally told me a supervisor will call me. I never got the call. I plugged in a cheap set of rabbit ears and watched the Super Bowl OTA in HD on Fox.

Anyone else have 102-2? All it has on it is a graphic "HD SPORTS" and some repeating dramatic music. It's an HD picture.

I always thought my Sony Wega was a great TV. I felt real bad taking it out of commision.

Then I set up my new LG 37LG30.

I turned it on and put my recording of the FOX 8 evening news on off my TiVo S3. I nearly freaked out, I could not believe how good the picture was. I didn't have a chance to do a calibration so I just set it in Cinema Mode. My wife comes downstairs comes down stairs and I said "look, you can not only see the entire Fox logo, you can see beyond it." Then she said "That's not what I noticed. Look at the detail (Dick Goddards Weather Map)."

Anyway we watched Desperate Housewives and she kept remarking about how she could really see the difference.

I've had several people pm me about the Wega. Right now HD MM has claims on it but I told him to get back to me by tomorrow or else the next person in line was going to get it. I don't want that thing in my garage, I'm afraid I'll back up and hit it.:eek:

So HD MM, I want to see an email by tomorrow morning. I sent you a pm.

What did she do to get the punishment of watching FOX News? Burn dinner? :D

And who records the news? LOL! Actually I do. I've recorded Action News at 5 to see triv tv when I'm not home. :D:D

And goddard in HD, ewww:eek::eek: The funeral home people do a pretty good job on him each night.

After a call to TW the DVR is working again. The guy did a quick reboot and all my shows are back. He also said this has been a problem with the conversion. When the box downloads sometimes it "forgets" it's a DVR and those functions don't work.

She kept putting me on hold to check with others and finally told me a supervisor will call me. I never got the call. I plugged in a cheap set of rabbit ears and watched the Super Bowl OTA in HD on Fox.

When a CSR tells you that they will have a supervisor call you they are flat out lying. I have never got a call from a supervisor via a CSR, or had a problem resolved beyond the norm that was suppose to be sent to a CSR.

We had a meeting today where I work and they talked about wanting the quality level of service up to match certain other companies. Time Warner was mentioned, my boss worked their.

After the meeting I told him that if he wants me to think for one minute that we don't do a better job then TW he's full of bull pucky. There is no way that my company provides lower quality customer service then Time Warner.

I told him if he truly believes that I have some nice beach front property in Nevada I'd like to sell him, because that's just as true as that horse manure speach he just made.

He looked a bit embarrassed and kind of shrugged his shoulders like "yeah well, you know I gotta do this."

What did she do to get the punishment of watching FOX News? Burn dinner? :D

Nope she brought home Chinese. Anyway my wife doesn't cook. She ruined a frozen pizza once. Seriously. I do the cooking.

And goddard in HD, ewww:eek::eek: The funeral home people do a pretty good job on him each night.

Hey, give the old dude some credit. He's been in the game a long time and I'm sure he does it because he loves it. Kind of like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. They sure as hell don't do it for the money.

Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?

Sure he doesn't know how to push his buttons on his computer thing and screws up all the time but what the hell, they are never right about the weather and it's interesting to see him get confused by new technology.:)

Hey, give the old dude some credit. He's been in the game a long time and I'm sure he does it because he loves it. Kind of like Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones. They sure as hell don't do it for the money.

Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?

Sure he doesn't know how to push his buttons on his computer thing and screws up all the time but what the hell, they are never right about the weather and it's interesting to see him get confused by new technology.:)

Yeah, he does like the animals. So do I. I give him that plus he's 1000x better than Bernier. I can't stand Bernier's politics or shtick. I flip the channel if he's on.

And gotta love the way Goddard always sounds like he's ****faced when he does the evening weather report. :D:D:D:D:D

No. I have yet to notice WBNX-HD on my QAM channels here in N. Canton.

Thanks for the reply, still holding out hope I guess :)

Also, I highly doubt FOX ch. 8 in HD will be on 8-1 via clear QAM. The HD feeds are usually in the 300 to 700 range and have no correspondence to the actual ch #. I think as long as the analog feeds are mapped correctly the cable co. is under no obligation to properly map the HD feeds via clear QAM.
Actually, channel numbers in the 200-999 range are just as fictitious as the low channel mappings. Most QAM channels on cable are transmitted somewhere in the 80-120 range.

On T/W in the eastern suburbs, WJW is transmitted on channel 105.2. WEWS is on 105.1. Each is coded with the "correct" virtual channel - WJW is 8, WEWS is 5.

For the record, WKYC and WUAB share channel 104, while WOIO and WVIZ are on 113.

WBNXHD is on 101.5 as of May 1st. It is incorrectly coded as virtual channel 0. Despite the fact that they are encoding it as subchannel 5, there does not seem to be anything else on channel 101 at present.

(In all cases above, I'm talking about the HD channels. The SD channels are on different frequencies, and I don't even bother to look for them.)

It occurs to me that some readers may not understand how two (or more) channels can share one physical channel. The answer is that the data streams for the two channels are interleaved into a single stream. Your cable box pulls in that stream and discards all of the data except for the channel that you're watching. So it's just one physical broadcast, but it contains the data for two or more channels. T/W can put as many as a dozen SD channels on one physical channel. In HD, the number is usually no more than 5.

I live in University Heights and Fox 8HD is 8-1, NBCHD is 3-1, ABC HD is 5-1, 43 HD is 43-1, PBS HD is 25-1, TNT HD is 88-3, WBNX HD is 102-1, STO is 106-1, Discovery HD is 86-3.......

Then TWC is doing something right! :) Seems you are getting proper ch. mapping even for local HD's via QAM. Not so with my WOW service (and most other clear QAM systems I've heard of). WOW has all the local HD's in the 200's. To WOW's credit they have not played the "clear QAM shuffle" in moving the QAM ch's around. The local HD's in the 200's have remained consistent since I first messed with QAM over a year ago.

I rarely mess with QAM as I use OTA for locals, but proper ch mapping would certainly be nice in clear QAM. :D

Actually, channel numbers in the 200-999 range are just as fictitious as the low channel mappings. Most QAM channels on cable are transmitted somewhere in the 80-120 range.......


Not on WOW (see above post). ;)

It seems my new HDTV has a qam tuner. So my thoughts are in order for me to access this I would split before my TiVo S3 and go to the back of the TV directly. Correct?

I'm not certain I want to do that but it sounds like something that might be fun to play with....you know something I know absolutely nothing about.....on a brand new tv. That way if I break something I can still return it in the first two weeks or 30 days or whatever.;)

Channel 8.1 is WJW-HD. Did something change?

I should clarify better. Yes, 8.1 does show up as it is mapping to WJW-HD which would be correct... but it actually displays channel 5 in HD. So the info my tv gains states WJW HD but I really receive WEWS HD. Sorry for the confusion. I know I have the wrong channel, just mixed up the call letters.

Quick question/survey for anyone with a SARA IPG or Tivo or anything other than Navigator:

Go to WUAB-HD(706) and check what's on at 7PM. According to Navigator there is 2.5 Men and the MNTV movie on tonight. I just heard on 19ActionNews at 5 the Cavs game is on tonight at 7. Titan TV confirms that the Cavs game is on at 7PM on WUAB-DT. Also another game on ESPN has the teams listed on Titan TV. Navigator is showing the ESPNHD game as "Teams TBA".

Please check and report back. Thanks :DThe EPG on my E* DVR also had the wrong program info for WUAB. Since Game 6 was only an "if needed" situation WUAB had to have it's regular programming ready in the guide data stream. FSN Ohio, being an RSN, probably gets updated more rapidly by Tribune Media (the company that supplies the EPG data to E* and probably to the cable EPG's as well). FSN Ohio's guide data had the correct data for Game 6. This is just speculation on my part.

BTW: I watched WUAB's OTA feed for the game - it had a clearer SD picture than the satellite delivered FSN feed. I don't get the RSN's in HD yet, however I do have a ViP 622 sitting in a box waiting for me to install it in place of my obsolete (i.e. no MPEG-4) DVR 942.

Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?

Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?
Remember who owns WUAB. 'Nuff said.

Speaking of WUAB, why the hell are the Cavs playoff games in 4:3 and not 16:9? Is this to penalize the people who don't pay $100 a month for their cable?

FSN Ohio only put one playoff game in HD, and that was the first game that the Cavs played in Washington. Even though that game was in HD on FSNOhio HD, WUAB simulcast of the game was in SD (no big surprise there). Its not a big deal to me because the nationals are picking up the games from here on out and they will be in HD.

The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?
What the F***?
I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.
That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005? :rolleyes:

Remember who owns WUAB. 'Nuff said.

You know and that's what is so funny about that channel. They have a spot on the old Adelphia line up in HD, basically wasting space because the only thing that I know that they have in HD is Action News at 10 and they don't show Cavs in HD.:confused:

That's why when I got a letter from some guy after asking Steve Fry why I should stay with TW and how come no CW (a while back) in HD He said that CW only offered 12 hours of HD program and they didn't want to waste bandwith on that channel. I responded by asking him just how much HD was on WAUB beyond the news? And I kind of ripped him a new one for trying to bs me. I told him no offense but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

He actually responded saying "no offense taken, and he appreciated my input.":D

The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?
What the F***?
I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.
That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005? :rolleyes:

They were ALL available in HD. You just had to tune to TNT or ESPN.

They were ALL available in HD. You just had to tune to TNT or ESPN.

Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?

Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.

So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.

Goes right back to the Tom Petty song I quote: "The boys upstairs all wanna know how much you'll pay for what you use to get free."

First track of Tom Petty's "The Last DJ". Which I highly recommend.;)

It seems my new HDTV has a qam tuner. So my thoughts are in order for me to access this I would split before my TiVo S3 and go to the back of the computer directly. Correct?

All you need is a clear cable line into the set (I wouldn't run it into your computer ;)). The easiest is to do just what you said: run a splitter off the wall with one end going into your Tivo and the other into the set.

Well, my Wega got picked up from a fellow member of this forum. He drove 60 miles to get it.

But that's not why I'm posting. After we loaded the Wega into his SUV he told me that apparently the Navigator software had "blew up" his SA 8300.

That of course gave me the opportunity to pitch TiVo but he didn't seem to interested. Said they were coming out in "a few days" to fix it, probably will replace it.

This Navigator thing sure looks interesting. Have fun guys.

One more thing. Zap2it.com now has updated digital listings for Cleveland now along with the old one.

I wish they would get it to me so I could get CWHD.

All you need is a clear cable line into the set (I wouldn't run it into your computer ;)). The easiest is to do just what you said: run a splitter off the wall with one end going into your Tivo and the other into the set.

Sorry for the confusion, I don't know why I said computer. I meant TV. So we were on the same page. I'll edit that post.

The only game that was in HD was game 1 ?!?!???!?!?
What the F***?
I wasn't aware of that. I was only able to catch 2 of the games at home on WUAB and just assumed they were in HD on FSN.
That is OUTRAGEOUS that the playoff games are not in HD. What year is it?... 2005? :rolleyes:

Yeah. I usually check the cavs.com website and check the TV listings. It usually says "FSN Ohio HD" if the game will be broadcast in HD.

Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?

Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.

So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.


Huh? What channel a playoff game is on has nothing to do with the cable company... Blame the NBA (and MLB) for the greedy business deals they made with non-OTA networks...

One more thing. Zap2it.com now has updated digital listings for Cleveland now along with the old one.

I wish they would get it to me so I could get CWHD.

Zap2It.com has had those listings for a few weeks - I pointed it out here back when I ran into it. :D

Oddly enough, my TiVo S2 only picked up the correct new lineup (under ZIP 44321) as "Time Warner Cable City of Cleveland". I'm not sure what that means, but the lineup matches the realigned lineup I'm getting as far as I can tell.

A run through the TWCGuide site and your system would be included in what's called "ClevelandSuburban3". Mine is 1. Your city isn't showing the old Western Reserve lineup (labeled "NSummit-Aurora"), but maybe you're close enough that it's why you don't have the new lineup yet.

Not that Dick Goddard has nearly as much as any of those dudes. And he loves animals! How can you not like a guy like that?


Ditto! Goddard has my respect also. A long time ago I remember his saying how he really loves weather phenomena and that drove him to get into the business. I much prefer to get my weather reports from someone like that rather than your average Ken doll who's only trying to get an anchor seat. Goddard can lay out those isobars like nobody's business. :cool:

Not on WOW (see above post). ;)
Still fictitious. There is no such thing as cable channel 200 or above. They can code the data stream any way they like, and they can map the channels around in various ways, but they still have to transmit the physical data over a specific set of frequencies. Those frequencies run from channel 2 through about channel 150 or so. Most cable systems don't go beyond channel 120. Most tuners don't go beyond channel 135.

It's true that I was describing Time Warner, not WOW, and I'm pretty sure that was clear in my post. But that doesn't change the fact that WOW is subject to the same set of channels as everyone else.

Here's a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies

I was disappointed to NOT see the CAvs in HD on My43. But on 19AN they always say "your free TV home of the Cavs". It really is you get what you pay for. Normally the lack of HD on My43 is no skin off my a--, as I watch ESPN or whatever other channel it is on. Plus, are there really that many people left with OTA in 2008?

But in the playoffs it was a real dick move to NOT be HD. Since a game 6 would not be getting time on a national network, the local RSNs SHOULD have it in HD. But hey, they made it. It should be HD from here on out :D:D

Well, my Wega got picked up from a fellow member of this forum. He drove 60 miles to get it.

But that's not why I'm posting. After we loaded the Wega into his SUV he told me that apparently the Navigator software had "blew up" his SA 8300.

How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.

Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a LONG time so we just gotta get along. ;) It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.

Huh? What channel a playoff game is on has nothing to do with the cable company... Blame the NBA (and MLB) for the greedy business deals they made with non-OTA networks...

When I first read your response I had to go back and read what I wrote because I didn't remember specifically blaming the cable companies. I did. And you're correct. But not completely.

You can also blame local stations. In Los Angeles for example they have many OTA games on channel 9 (Dodgers). Angels are on channel 13, KCOP and I'm not sure if they are CW or "My Network." And of course since they are in big city market they get alot of attention from FOX and ESPN.

Remember there were no local ota broadcast until STO teamed up with WKYC. The reason? Ratiings. And the Tribe only gets OTA on Sundays or a holiday. WKYC doesn't want to give up it's NBC broadcast for the Tribe in the evenings.

Another thing. Everyone now is "network affiliated" so you really don't have independent stations now. I think KCAL channel 9 is the only "independent" station in Los Angeles where in the old days there was channels 5, 9, 11, and 13.

And even KCAL really isn't independent. It's owned by CBS but they broadcast their primetime network shows on KCBS channel 2.

Point is that apparently nobody wants to step up anymore in the OTA market and broadcast baseball.

And for what it's worth, I noticed all the Dodger and Angel games OTA are not in HD.

How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.

Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a LONG time so we just gotta get along. ;) It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.

I think he says it reboots all the time. So he can't use it with constant reboot.

Wow Nickdawg once again you continue to amaze me. I think earlier today or possibly yesterday you were cussing and swearing and now suddenly you're a fan?

It's too bad. I was really enjoying you ripping the navigator. Let's see how you feel in the next week or so.:)

And what in the world makes you think that Cablevision or Comcast will be better? We all thought TW would be better then Adelphia, and in fact they are a step above them but in the end all cable companies are evil, bad, and one big pain in the butt. I've never been happy with any cable company I ever was with. The only time I was happy was when I had D*, and even then I had to go through Pegasus at that time. Pegasucks was bad but not as bad as any cable company I've ever had.

This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner

82.201 cbs
88.202 fox
102.110 19weather
103.140 tube
103.204 WUAB
110.399 WOW PPV commercials
110.547 classical music
115.203 nbc
116.130 nbcweather
116.200 abc
117.1 - 117.55 music stations
117.500 - 117.546 music stations
118.1 paperview commercials


I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.

I have two tickets to the Indians game at 1:00PM on Sunday, and I am unable to attend. No charge for the tickets, but you need to be able to pick them up from me in Lyndhurst. PM if you are interested.

This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner

82.201 cbs
88.202 fox
102.110 19weather
103.140 tube
103.204 WUAB
110.399 WOW PPV commercials
110.547 classical music
115.203 nbc
116.130 nbcweather
116.200 abc
117.1 - 117.55 music stations
117.500 - 117.546 music stations
118.1 paperview commercials


I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.

I think I see their numbering format here. The number to the left of the decimal point is the EIA frequency assignment, and the number to the right is their channel number that corresponds to their published channel number.

WOW! didn't understand QAM or understand how there own recievers work. I was transfered numerous times, including one where I was flat out called a liar, long story short, They are upgrading me to digital cable and giving me the digital reciever. Did they give it to me for free? NO, they are charging me $15 a month less! just outsmart them and they start to pay you.

I have two tickets to the Indians game at 1:00PM on Sunday, and I am unable to attend. No charge for the tickets, but you need to be able to pick them up from me in Lyndhurst. PM if you are interested.

I'm not interested but thanks for the offer.

So far this week we've given away a HDTV and baseball tickets. Not a bad thread, huh?:)

Is this the ASV CLeveland TV forum or The Price is Right? :D:D:D:D

Has anyone been having issues with ESPN2, ESPN, or HBO on their HD feeds. I am runnign trough an 8300HDC, and the picture will freeze for about 3 seconds, catch up for about 3 seconds, and freeze again. It is unwatchable. I had to watch last nights Cavs game in SD. Frustrating

This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner

82.201 cbs
88.202 fox
102.110 19weather
103.140 tube
103.204 WUAB
110.399 WOW PPV commercials
110.547 classical music
115.203 nbc
116.130 nbcweather
116.200 abc
117.1 - 117.55 music stations
117.500 - 117.546 music stations
118.1 paperview commercials


I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.
Those are the WOW clear QAM channels I get. Results may vary depending upon TV as one of my TVs picks up the music choice stations, the other doesn't. With the exception of 103-140 and 103-204, all channels resolve to their 3-digit channel number as noted in the WOW channel lineup.

WOW! didn't understand QAM or understand how there own recievers work. I was transfered numerous times, including one where I was flat out called a liar, long story short, They are upgrading me to digital cable and giving me the digital reciever. Did they give it to me for free? NO, they are charging me $15 a month less! just outsmart them and they start to pay you.
I'm very surprised at your story. I have had WOW for 4 years and every call to CS has been professional and courteous. Looks like you got a dud, who I would not expect to last long with the company.

In any case, it looks like they took care of you and provided you with a great result in the end - definitely better than you expected going into the call. They did the same for me last year. With the HD tuner, I get the entire Basic HD lineup plus StarzHD.

Good to see someone else around here has WOW. It's been kind of lonely since paule123 switched to satellite.

Has anyone been having issues with ESPN2, ESPN, or HBO on their HD feeds. I am runnign trough an 8300HDC, and the picture will freeze for about 3 seconds, catch up for about 3 seconds, and freeze again. It is unwatchable. I had to watch last nights Cavs game in SD. Frustrating

Heh Heh Heh Heh

Sorry to hear about this my friend. I'm assuming you have Navigator software. There seems to be some bugs in that navigator software. I'm sure they will get it fixed soon however because we all know Time Warner puts the customer first. This little oversight of allowing this product to be released with these minor problems will probably be corrected as soon as Cisco or SA or whomever actually hires someone who knows how to program a DVR.

What? This isn't a minor problem? Well, TW really doesn't think it's that important at this time. They are trying to push out this software and if it doesn't work they will fix it later.

Seriously all I've heard about Navigator for the most part are pretty negative comments. In the meantime, TW will apologize for the problems you are experiencing and schedule a truck roll in about two weeks if you call customer service. They will probably replace your DVR and hopefully that will solve your problem.

Heh Heh Heh Heh

Sorry to hear about this my friend. I'm assuming you have Navigator software. There seems to be some bugs in that navigator software. I'm sure they will get it fixed soon however because we all know Time Warner puts the customer first. This little oversight of allowing this product to be released with these minor problems will probably be corrected as soon as Cisco or SA or whomever actually hires someone who knows how to program a DVR.

What? This isn't a minor problem? Well, TW really doesn't think it's that important at this time. They are trying to push out this software and if it doesn't work they will fix it later.

Seriously all I've heard about Navigator for the most part are pretty negative comments. In the meantime, TW will apologize for the problems you are experiencing and schedule a truck roll in about two weeks if you call customer service. They will probably replace your DVR and hopefully that will solve your problem.

Check your connections. I've had problems like that in the past and it turned out the main cable was loose after I cleaned. I really don't think that's a Navigator issue. I had some freezing last weekend(unrelated to loose wiring-I checked) and everything has worked since the switch.

If they do a truck roll, be sure they check wiring, signal levels and the drop from the street BEFORE changing the box. The most common box you'll get now is the 8300HDC. I'd avoid the HDC like the plague! I had one in the past and it was awful. There was definately something up with it since it had the seperable conditional access card. Navigator on the 8300HD works much better than it ever was on the HDC. They'll have to pry this 8300 out of my cold dead hands :D
--------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame Cisco/SA for Navigator. Navigator is a third party product designed by Time Warner. It works as good as ANY other non-SA product would work on their network. But this one definately has many of the bugs that were present in the OCAP version worked out.

Received line up change on one set.

My TiVo HD now has the new line up. My S3 has the old one still.

From what I have read this is not uncommon, correct?

Received line up change on one set.

My TiVo HD now has the new line up. My S3 has the old one still.

From what I have read this is not uncommon, correct?

Doesn't seem unusual to me... Are the cablecards in the HD a different manufacturer or model than the ones in the S3?

This is what I get with WOW! basic cable(not digital) via QAM tuner

82.201 cbs
88.202 fox
102.110 19weather
103.140 tube
103.204 WUAB
110.399 WOW PPV commercials
110.547 classical music
115.203 nbc
116.130 nbcweather
116.200 abc
117.1 - 117.55 music stations
117.500 - 117.546 music stations
118.1 paperview commercials


I am wondering if anybody gets anything different. Either more channels or less. I think I should be getting STOHD and TNTHD as well.

You should NOT be getting STOHD and TNTHD in the clear. WOW is very good at not letting channels outside of the local OTA network basics "leak" into the clear. If you called and complained to them about that, then you were wrong. Just because you might read about some "extra" channels TWC might have, it's probably because TWC is incompetent/stupid.

ajstan, I still have WOW for internet, haven't totally given up on them. Just that they (and any other cable company) can't deliver all the HD goodness that DirecTV currently can ...

Still fictitious. There is no such thing as cable channel 200 or above. They can code the data stream any way they like, and they can map the channels around in various ways, but they still have to transmit the physical data over a specific set of frequencies. Those frequencies run from channel 2 through about channel 150 or so. Most cable systems don't go beyond channel 120. Most tuners don't go beyond channel 135.

It's true that I was describing Time Warner, not WOW, and I'm pretty sure that was clear in my post. But that doesn't change the fact that WOW is subject to the same set of channels as everyone else.

Here's a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_cable_television_frequencies

Yes, you were quite clear you were discussing TWC. You can call the ch #'s ficticious, re-mapped, whatever, I'm just telling you where those WOW ch.'s appear on my QAM tuner in Strongsville and the local HD's are in the 200's. :)

I can enter ch. 82 or ch. 201, either way WOW takes me to ch. 201 CBS.

Yes, you were quite clear you were discussing TWC. You can call the ch #'s ficticious, re-mapped, whatever, I'm just telling you where those WOW ch.'s appear on my QAM tuner in Strongsville and the local HD's are in the 200's. :)Right. T/W does it somewhat differently. They code the virtual channels (most of them anyway) into their "proper" channel numbers (3,5,8, etc.), but their HD cable boxes map them into the 400s. So on a typical QAM tuner, they show up as 3.1, 5.1, etc, but on T/W's cable box, they show up as 403, 405, etc. (and until a week ago, it was 703, 705, etc.)

But if someone is trying to find a specific channel as a QAM broadcast (which is what started this discussion), it's the physical channel number that will help them track it down. Especially if the cable company isn't coding it correctly.

Doesn't seem unusual to me... Are the cablecards in the HD a different manufacturer or model than the ones in the S3?

They are the same. I think they are anyway. Both SA unless there was a newer version released since the last time I had the first one's installed in the S3.

It seems like this happens to lots of people, like nickdawg had one box navigator and another wasn't. Although I'm not sure if he had his line up changed both at the same time.

Not a big deal, I record CW upstairs anyway and transfer downstairs because of Thursday conflicts. And of course TiVo was smart enough to see the change and had the new channels already set up to the correct line up on the to do list even though the channels on the season pass list were the old line up.

Right. T/W does it somewhat differently. They code the virtual channels (most of them anyway) into their "proper" channel numbers (3,5,8, etc.), but their HD cable boxes map them into the 400s. So on a typical QAM tuner, they show up as 3.1, 5.1, etc, but on T/W's cable box, they show up as 403, 405, etc. (and until a week ago, it was 703, 705, etc.)

But if someone is trying to find a specific channel as a QAM broadcast (which is what started this discussion), it's the physical channel number that will help them track it down. Especially if the cable company isn't coding it correctly.

Yup. The joys of QAM tuning. "Where are my channels this week?" :D

After full scans my QAM tuner has never even shown ch ID's for locals like 82.xxx etc... and only shows ID's for the 200 thru 205 locals (plus the music ch's, sub bull-sh** weather ch's and PPV's), that's it.

BTW: My parents are in CF as well and were just asking me what cable co's are available to them. Who offers cable TV in CF? Furthermore, who would you recommend?

Thanks for any input. :)

Remember there were no local ota broadcast until STO teamed up with WKYC. The reason? Ratiings. And the Tribe only gets OTA on Sundays or a holiday. WKYC doesn't want to give up it's NBC broadcast for the Tribe in the evenings.


Actually, Tuesday's Yankee game is on WKYC, so I guess it was worth them giving up prime time sweeps programming!

The other non-Sunday WKYC dates are Friday, June 6th vs. Detroit, Tuesday, June 17th vs. Colorado, Saturday, July 5th vs. Minnesota, Monday, August 25th vs. Detroit

Well, that's fine for people like me and satellite folks. But what about OTA? My point is of course it SHOULD have been available on WUAB. If you don't subscribe to something you should be SOL in regards to receiving a local playoff game?

Then again, when the Tribe won they were on TBS only. There was no television at all OTA.

So the mesage is clear: either you subscribe or you go to the game. You will do as the cable commpany commands. If not, we will take away certains things.

Goes right back to the Tom Petty song I quote: "The boys upstairs all wanna know how much you'll pay for what you use to get free."

First track of Tom Petty's "The Last DJ". Which I highly recommend.;)

How is this any different from the regular season games? The majority of Tribe games are on STO and the majority of Cav's games are on FSN. OTA folks don't get those channels either. I don't understand how some think that these practices are supposed to change once the local teams make it to the playoffs?

Actually, Tuesday's Yankee game is on WKYC, so I guess it was worth them giving up prime time sweeps programming!

The other non-Sunday WKYC dates are Friday, June 6th vs. Detroit, Tuesday, June 17th vs. Colorado, Saturday, July 5th vs. Minnesota, Monday, August 25th vs. Detroit



Saturday is a weekend, Friday is the least watched day on primetime (use to be, maybe Saturday now) and it's also after the May Sweeps. Saturday is the same as Friday, and Monday, well you got me there.

But come on you're talking only 4 additional games.

How is this any different from the regular season games? The majority of Tribe games are on STO and the majority of Cav's games are on FSN. OTA folks don't get those channels either. I don't understand how some think that these practices are supposed to change once the local teams make it to the playoffs?

Well son;), back in the old days when there were 10 teams in each league and whomever had the best record went to the World Series they would allow the local broadcasting station along with the network which I believe was NBC back then to show the game. This policy went on I think into the 70's after playoffs started.

So where I come from in Los Angeles do you think that people would tune in Joe Buck or Vin Scully? Vin Scully was voted as the favorite Dodger of all time by the way.

Just saying how it use to be and how it's changed.

My point was that your original message indicated the WKYC had a game on only Sundays or holidays. None of the games qualify as holidays (the other non-Sunday game was opening day, which was a Monday) and they did get one prime time sweeps game on Tuesday. Therefore, of the 20 OTA games, 6 of them are non-Sunday games.

Saturday is a weekend, Friday is the least watched day on primetime (use to be, maybe Saturday now) and it's also after the May Sweeps. Saturday is the same as Friday, and Monday, well you got me there.

But come on you're talking only 4 additional games.

How exactly did it "blow up"? Was it the problem with the DVR? I called last night and they fixed it over the phone in a few minutes. My shows and DVR are back to working now.

Also, I'm actually not pissed at Navigator anymore. We are going to be stuck together for a LONG time so we just gotta get along. ;) It's kinda easier to accept it when the decision is made FOR you, since it is now the only option. I can only hope if this news about TW Cable for sale progresses and someone like Cablevision or even Comcast buys it they will switch to SARA or Passport. No reputable, quality cable company would be caught dead with this embarrassment.

I think I posted my tale last week. Tuesday morning or Monday night Warner hit my 8300HD with the new software. It is not just the dvr that is zapped, but the entire unit. It just keeps going into an endless reboot cycle and never starts. I've tried everything including unplugging it for several minutes and calling TWC to reboot it or fix it from their end. They can't come out to try to fix it or replace it before Thursday night. I could take the box into a service center for a swap but that gives me no hope of fixing the box and keeping the saved media on the dvr.

The real bummer is that I had an external hard drive attached with over 100 hrs saved on it. If they replace the box, I will lose everything.

My Sony 60" SXRD has dual tuners, so I've just been watching TV in QAM. It is a shame that TWC doesn't list their QAM lineup.

Like Hookbill mentioned, I have been pretty happy with Passport in the past and we usually even order a movie or two each month from In Demand, which would not work with Tivo. We had a sucessful download of Navigator weeks ago to a non-HD 8300 in the house and I hate that software. I'l give TWC a certain time to fix it before I take Hookbill's rec and go to Tivo. Unfortunately, satellite is out due to size and location of Neighbor's trees.

My point was that your original message indicated the WKYC had a game on only Sundays or holidays. None of the games qualify as holidays (the other non-Sunday game was opening day, which was a Monday) and they did get one prime time sweeps game on Tuesday. Therefore, of the 20 OTA games, 6 of them are non-Sunday games.

OK 6 games and not to split hairs with you but July 5 us part of the Independence day weekend and it's on a Saturday.

Very. Late last night when I noticed the line up change upstairs in the bedroom I thought maybe this morning the downstairs TiVo would be set up as well.

It wasn't.

So instead of thinking, gee, why don't I just take a look and see if the Cleveland line up is being offered (the upgraded one) I call customer service.
Nice enough fellow, wants to be helpful, tells me to turn off my TV. I do a little laugh and turn it off anyway. Then he tells me to pull the cable cards out of my TV. I explain that they are in the TiVo. So I do the stupid customer dance, reboot pull out the cards and of course nothing works. He says that he is going to send this to "Engineering Management" and it will be fixed.

I go out for breakfast and then I thought, hey why not just run guided setup and see if Cleveland digital is available? So I did and sure enough that did the trick.

Now I'm on a 2 hour call back hold from TiVo to make sure nobody messes with my machine. I'll bet there isn't even a note in the system.

BTW: My parents are in CF as well and were just asking me what cable co's are available to them. Who offers cable TV in CF? Furthermore, who would you recommend?
As far as I know, T/W is the only player in town. I'm actually slightly outside Chagrin (in South Russell), but it seems to be the same system. I don't know that I'd "recommend" Time Warner, but that's what we've got. I'm not about to switch to satellite or AT&T, so I guess I'm OK with T/W. I do periodically consider dumping them and just using my antenna, but I'd still have to pay them for internet service, so I'll probably just leave it alone.

As far as I know, T/W is the only player in town. I'm actually slightly outside Chagrin (in South Russell), but it seems to be the same system. I don't know that I'd "recommend" Time Warner, but that's what we've got. I'm not about to switch to satellite or AT&T, so I guess I'm OK with T/W. I do periodically consider dumping them and just using my antenna, but I'd still have to pay them for internet service, so I'll probably just leave it alone.

Jim you are correct nobody can "recommend" TW. They are adequate at best.

I say if you have a clear line of sight get D*. They have a good DVR, very close to TiVo's and much more selection for HD. TW is great for internet so I see your point.

Horrible OTA reception on WEWS ABC lately here in Brunstucky. WKYC Indians games are beautiful looking and that is on the "tough to get" OTA signal. Chan 5 ABC has been pixelated and LOS problems for about a week+ now.

Anyone else?

So as you are probably aware there are duplicate stations all over the digital areas. My thinking was that they were making them digital to A. Screw people who didn't own a box or B. Planning on making more HD channels so they needed them in digital.

Well, I just did a little searching around and guess what I came up with. It appears that every duplicate analog channel is not digital. It's still analog.

People we are not talking one or two stations. There is almost 50 channels duplicated in analog. Now how in the heck do you explain that? What purpose could there possibly be for doing this.

It doesn't make sense. It doesn't benefit the customer, not like they were concerened about that in the first place, but it waste a huge, huge amount of bandwith.

Can you imagine how many more HD channels they could have added? Now I don't know how much bandwith HD takes, I know digital takes a whole lot less and analog to the best of my knowledge is the biggest bandwith hog.

So if any of you intelligent people out there can explain this to me, please do. And all those stations are copy freely just like there counterparts.

I know there has got to be a reason for this.

Now I just typed this out and I think I know why. This is all part of the "put them in their program package" theory. Entertainment: USA, FX, TNT, etc.

Nice. I answered my own question.:rolleyes:

But this is still a big waste of bandwith IMHO. Unless it somehow redirects to the lower tier station.

Horrible OTA reception on WEWS ABC lately here in Brunstucky. WKYC Indians games are beautiful looking and that is on the "tough to get" OTA signal. Chan 5 ABC has been pixelated and LOS problems for about a week+ now.

Anyone else?
I'm in Kent. No major issues here. Had some issues with 8 earlier in the week but I think that was weather related. High winds usually give me problems with the trees in my sight line. ABC has been perfect all day today.

Like Hookbill mentioned, I have been pretty happy with Passport in the past and we usually even order a movie or two each month from In Demand, which would not work with Tivo.

TiVo does have a similar feature - Amazon Unbox. For a couple of bucks, you can download a movie and watch it on TiVo. The list of available movies and TV series is pretty extensive. Unfortunately, I don't believe any of it is HD at this time, but I've seen talk of Amazon getting HD downloads going later this year.

So as you are probably aware there are duplicate stations all over the digital areas. My thinking was that they were making them digital to A. Screw people who didn't own a box or B. Planning on making more HD channels so they needed them in digital.

Well, I just did a little searching around and guess what I came up with. It appears that every duplicate analog channel is not digital. It's still analog.

People we are not talking one or two stations. There is almost 50 channels duplicated in analog. Now how in the heck do you explain that? What purpose could there possibly be for doing this.

It doesn't make sense. It doesn't benefit the customer, not like they were concerened about that in the first place, but it waste a huge, huge amount of bandwith.

Can you imagine how many more HD channels they could have added? Now I don't know how much bandwith HD takes, I know digital takes a whole lot less and analog to the best of my knowledge is the biggest bandwith hog.

So if any of you intelligent people out there can explain this to me, please do. And all those stations are copy freely just like there counterparts.

I know there has got to be a reason for this.

Now I just typed this out and I think I know why. This is all part of the "put them in their program package" theory. Entertainment: USA, FX, TNT, etc.

Nice. I answered my own question.:rolleyes:

But this is still a big waste of bandwith IMHO. Unless it somehow redirects to the lower tier station.

Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location. My area already had ALL the channels in digital including 2-99, making the new channel numbers digital as well. If you tune to CNN on 350 then tune to CNN on its old location you'll notice that only the channel number changes. The box doesn't actually change physical channels. Also if you pull up your SARA diagnostics channel/screen and choose the Tuning option you'll see that the numbers are the same for the anlaog channel's old location as well as the over 100 location. The lack of digital channels is a headend issue. If your headend doesn't have the digital versions of these channels, they won't be digital.

Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location. My area already had ALL the channels in digital including 2-99, making the new channel numbers digital as well. If you tune to CNN on 350 then tune to CNN on its old location you'll notice that only the channel number changes. The box doesn't actually change physical channels. Also if you pull up your SARA diagnostics channel/screen and choose the Tuning option you'll see that the numbers are the same for the anlaog channel's old location as well as the over 100 location. The lack of digital channels is a headend issue. If your headend doesn't have the digital versions of these channels, they won't be digital.

Glad to hear that. I removed all the lower tier numbered channels and noticed that Season Passes for those shows were automatically mapped to the what I thought was "digital" versions. I put the channels back in and TiVo left the channels on the "digital" versions all though they may be remapped again by now.

At least they arn't wasting analog space, that was my main concern.

I'm in Kent. No major issues here. Had some issues with 8 earlier in the week but I think that was weather related. High winds usually give me problems with the trees in my sight line. ABC has been perfect all day today.

Thanks PTXer.
I went to AntennaWeb again to verify the locations and it looks like WEWS is more North than the other stations. I'll have to check the alignment on my outdoor TERK. With all the wind over the past winter it wouldn't surprise me if it got jostled a bit.

Glad to hear that. I removed all the lower tier numbered channels and noticed that Season Passes for those shows were automatically mapped to the what I thought was "digital" versions. I put the channels back in and TiVo left the channels on the "digital" versions all though they may be remapped again by now.

At least they arn't wasting analog space, that was my main concern.


Since my box malfunctioned, I'm just watching the straight cable feed and with my QAM tuner, and there definitely are some duplicates. I'm not sure about the analog channels, but the local digital HD channels in the clear are all duplicated. That is 3.1, 5.1 and 8.1 are also in the 101 to 103 frequency range. Lots of other stations are the same. I would bet some analog stations are duplicated too, but can't check until tonight.

On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.

...........On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.

If only ALL cable co's would do this! :(

The problem is that in order for any cable co to turn off all analog locals the cable co must provide free digital cable boxes to all of it's basic cable subscribers through 2012 (as it stands now), and that's a very costly proposition to the cable co.

Thanks PTXer.
I went to AntennaWeb again to verify the locations and it looks like WEWS is more North than the other stations. I'll have to check the alignment on my outdoor TERK. With all the wind over the past winter it wouldn't surprise me if it got jostled a bit.
Not exactly....

WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.

For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).

While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along Ridge Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.

I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.

Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?

2nd question first - D* currently only shows the Indians games from STO HD (not the replays though). Their latest bird is supposed to go live by September and hopefully it will go full time then.

I'm not sure of the first. When I installed, I had to pay the upfront DVR cost, but there was some question from the installer as to whether he would be succcessful. If he hadn't been, I would have received a full refund. As for the apex of the house, I would think it would depend on the individual installer and his ladder. I know my installer had to call a supervisor before he could refuse to do the job. Your mileage may vary though...



I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.

Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?

Not exactly....

WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.

For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).

While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along State Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.

Guess I should have clarified ...
According to the AntennaWeb map graphic for my house in Brunswick, the WEWS radial from my address is a little North of the others. Gunna try a minor adjustment to see if it helps. Like I said, with all the wind it wouldn't surprise me that it was wacked out of alignmentsome.

Thanks for the info though.

On one of the other forums here, Time Warner HD ( I don't have the exact thread name), Someone reported that TW Staten Island, NY, cleared up much space for a number of new HD channels by completely eliminating analog.

Staten Island, you're my heroes!! NE Ohio needs to pull the trigger on the analog already. Hey Time Warner! Hey Mr. Fry! (someone from TW HAS to be checking this place out:rolleyes:) Think how much MORE money could be made by selling those boxes to EVERYONE. Like mentioned above, at least ONE free box per outlet, but extra cost for additionals(like it is now).

I currently have two Time Warner STBs, I wouldn't mind getting another one if they were cheaper.

Not exactly....

WEWS is in the middle of the pack as far as north to south goes. The problem is your POV changes depending on the receiver's location.

For the record, the farthest "north" transmitter is WBNX, followed closely by WOIO, WKYC and WQHS. All 4 are along the south side of W. Ridgewood Drive between Broadview and State Roads. Just a little bit south and west of WQHS is WUAB. Just south of WUAB is WEWS, both of these are along the west side of State Rd. Continue down State to the southeast corner of State & Pleasant Valley Rd. and you will find the home of WJW FOX 8's transmitter (very close to the road as opposed to the rest).

While they are not yet digital on their main tower, WVIZ is way off the beaten path in North Royalton along State Rd., between Sprague and Wallings Roads.


Speaking of WVIZ... a quick check of the FCC website shows the coordinates for their full power DTV transmitter to be different than their analog: 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W. Now check the coordinates for WKYC-DT...hmmm, 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W.

I've noticed at the end of several On Demand titles there are commercials for Time Warner Cable.

The most recent place I saw one of these ads was at the end of Avenged Sevenfold's "Afterlife", which seemed like it was cut short. I checked the official video on You Tube and and it wasn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8akxHCUBLk

PHEW!:cool: I was thinking Time Warner was sinking to a new low level, but they're safe(for now).

Speaking of WVIZ... a quick check of the FCC website shows the coordinates for their full power DTV transmitter to be different than their analog: 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W. Now check the coordinates for WKYC-DT...hmmm, 41 23 10 N, 81 41 21 W.:eek:
I guess WVIZ never could come to terms with CBS, Inc. (the owner of the North Royalton tower where their analog signal resides. Good sleuthing clevemkt!

It's just as well. This will make aiming antennas a little bit easier, as I stated before the N.Roy. tower was off the beaten path (FYI: I corrected the street location of WVIZ analog, it's off of Ridge, not State).

BTW: if you checkout the coordinates for WBNX, you'll also have the coordinates of nearly every LPTV signal too.

I'm wavering on taking the plunge and attempting to place an order. I'm worried about the trees in my back yard. There are other people in my area that have D* and trees don't seem to be a problem. So is there A) any way to have someone come out and check for LOS issues before I order and B) is there usually any issue with having an installer put a dish at the apex of my roof? Thanks for any help.

Bonus ? - Does D* have STO HD?

About the trees. If they can't get a clear signal they won't install. Trust me, I tried twice.

I did have one guy though who offered to do a set up off the books on his own time and mount the dish ON one of the trees. I said no thanks.

I see a small train heading south Tuesday morning... looks like the engine says Navigator and the boxcar says SA-2000... ;)

Those channels are not duplicates. They are the same channels as the existing numbers, just mapped to a different location.

I could have sworn I posted this a few days ago. Does anyone read me in here? :D

This would, though, presumably pave the way for them to do the digital substitutions for the current analog channels.

hookbill, I was gonna ask you if you ran Guided Setup. :)

From me, 5/1/08 (last Thursday):


Oh, and I think I figured something out.

The new 100-plus channels that are mirrors of the analog channels are indeed just that - mirrors.

You can tell when you tune to, say, 350 (CNN)...it doesn't take the added second or so to decode a digital video signal. And if you flip between both channels - 34 and 350 - the box doesn't even try retuning!

So, it would appear at least for now, "digital cable" needs an asterisk for the mirrored analog channels. :D

Does anyone anticipate digital OTA signals being easier to pick up/stronger after the cut off date?

Just curious...

Does anyone anticipate digital OTA signals being easier to pick up/stronger after the cut off date?

Just curious...

The WKYC-DT signal should be much more robust after the transition, since they're moving off of interference-prone channel 2 to UHF channel 17.

From me, 5/1/08 (last Thursday):

Well, you know how it is. First I didn't pay any attention to your post, then I had to go get excited and upset about something. I mean if I'd have noticed your post and figured out what the heck you were talking about then I wouldn't have gone over the top crazy.

Further, you should make it a point of saying something like "hook, you need to pay attention" when it comes to these things. Now I look like a real idiot.:o

And it's all your fault.;)

Hey I just thought I'd let you guys know I got my new 37LC30 pretty much dialed in now. It was like forgetting everything I learned in the past and starting over with a different approach.

I tried to calibrate it like I did my Wega but no matter what I did I couldn't get it to look as good as just putting it on Cinema. But Cinema didn't look quite right either.

My Wega did not have a black level and from reading in the flat panel LCD post I learned that having a high contrast, low brightness and pushing that black level up to about 35 made a huge difference. I had it at 50 earlier and I thought that was a bit much. On the grey scale at 35 black level, 50 brightness and 90 contrast you can see each and every individual panel with sharp edges. I also had to knock the color down to around 35, just too much color in the faces. I put the temperature at normal.

I'll be anxious to check out Fox 8 News in the morning.

If only ALL cable co's would do this! :(

The problem is that in order for any cable co to turn off all analog locals the cable co must provide free digital cable boxes to all of it's basic cable subscribers through 2012 (as it stands now), and that's a very costly proposition to the cable co.


Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.

Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.

They're only REQUIRED to keep the "must carry" local channels in the clear(analog, clear QAM).

They're only REQUIRED to keep the "must carry" local channels in the clear(analog, clear QAM).

True, but without providing free digital boxes to all basic subscribers, doing away with the analog lineup would be icky. There are a lot of people who just use analog cable, and alienating them would be akin to corporate suicide.

As much as we'd like to see it go away, analog cable is going to stick around for a long time...

Don't they only have to offer the "lifeline" local channels such as 2 - 13 to follow the law? They have a lot more analog channels taking up bandwidth than that.

Yes, and those (2-13) would be/include the locals. ;)

Yes, and that's why most in here including myself don't like the analogs taking up bandwidth that could/should be digital. :(

True, but without providing free digital boxes to all basic subscribers, doing away with the analog lineup would be icky. There are a lot of people who just use analog cable, and alienating them would be akin to corporate suicide.

As much as we'd like to see it go away, analog cable is going to stick around for a long time...

Well, people who get simple basic don't get much extra. WGN, a religious channel a couple of community channels. The problem is offering basic plus. They could remove basic plus, make it digital and then that would "force" people into getting a digital box.

And the smart way they could do this would be to offer the box free for 6 months or a year, create another tier of digital service something like digital "classic" and then they could charge for the box.

The only problem I see with pulling this off is they would have to offer actual digital boxes, not DVR's. And they seem determined to get everyone a DVR unless you talk to Mr. Fry.

:eek:
I guess WVIZ never could come to terms with CBS, Inc. (the owner of the North Royalton tower where their analog signal resides. Good sleuthing clevemkt!

It's just as well. This will make aiming antennas a little bit easier, as I stated before the N.Roy. tower was off the beaten path (FYI: I corrected the street location of WVIZ analog, it's off of Ridge, not State).


Some interesting info is now available on WVIZ going to the new WKYC tower on the FCC website (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=625925):

Site

WVIZ operates its analog (Channel 25) and digital facilities from a multi-user tower (ASR #1026082, on which WVIZ is a tenant) that is also occupied by an FM station; the tower is in very close proximity to a standard broadcast (AM) array. Although the current WVIZ authorization matches the parameters of the Appendix B facility, WVIZ is presently operating a digital facility under Special Temporary Authority and has been unable to complete construction at the current site.
WVIZ has identified a new site for its DTV facility and is proposing to collocate with WKYC with the post-transition operating parameters listed below:

Proposed Post-transition Facility (Ch. 26)
Coordinates: 41° 23’ 10” N (NAD27)
81° 41’ 21” W
ERP: 170 kW (DA)
HAAT: 337m



Antenna System and Tower

WVIZ-DT will use a Dielectric directional antenna (TFU-10GTH-R C400) which will be part of a new top-mounted WVIZ/WKYC antenna stack that will take the place of the existing WKYC Channel 3 analog antenna. The antenna stack will be placed on the tower (ASR#1013919) at the coordinates specified above. The overall height of the structure will remain the same (595m AMSL, with appurtenances) and the WVIZ antenna will have a center of radiation of 590.4m AMSL (with a calculated HAAT of 336.9m).

Coverage

The entire principal community of Cleveland, OH is well within the predicted F(50,90) 48 dBu contour based on the proposed directional 170 kW ERP.
While the proposed WVIZ parameters do not match the Appendix B facility exactly, the proposed facility is predicted to provide Longley Rice coverage (based on an OET-69 analysis) to 96.4% of the Appendix B population.

Well, people who get simple basic don't get much extra. WGN, a religious channel a couple of community channels. The problem is offering basic plus. They could remove basic plus, make it digital and then that would "force" people into getting a digital box.

And the smart way they could do this would be to offer the box free for 6 months or a year, create another tier of digital service something like digital "classic" and then they could charge for the box.

The only problem I see with pulling this off is they would have to offer actual digital boxes, not DVR's. And they seem determined to get everyone a DVR unless you talk to Mr. Fry.


This is from the FCC's dtv.gov FAQs:

Can my cable company make me get a box to receive the cable channels I receive today without a box?

Some cable companies have decided to switch to digital service. This is a business decision made by the cable companies and is not required by the federal government. Your cable company may decide to move certain cable channels off of its analog service tier and onto a digital service tier, or it may decide to switch to all-digital service at once, so that there is no analog service tier for any subscribers. If your cable company decides to move some or all of the channels it provides onto a digital service tier, it may notify you that you need to get “digital cable” equipment to continue receiving that cable service. This may include renting or purchasing a digital cable set-top box or purchasing a digital cable ready TV equipped with a “CableCARD” slot. The digital cable equipment is different from the digital-to-analog converter boxes that are used to receive over-the-air broadcast signals.

This is from the FCC's dtv.gov FAQs:

Can my cable company make me get a box to receive the cable channels I receive today without a box?

Some cable companies have decided to switch to digital service. This is a business decision made by the cable companies and is not required by the federal government. Your cable company may decide to move certain cable channels off of its analog service tier and onto a digital service tier, or it may decide to switch to all-digital service at once, so that there is no analog service tier for any subscribers. If your cable company decides to move some or all of the channels it provides onto a digital service tier, it may notify you that you need to get “digital cable” equipment to continue receiving that cable service. This may include renting or purchasing a digital cable set-top box or purchasing a digital cable ready TV equipped with a “CableCARD” slot. The digital cable equipment is different from the digital-to-analog converter boxes that are used to receive over-the-air broadcast signals.

Very Very interesting!:)

Am I missing something or is none of the programming on Food HD actually in HD? Usually if the program is in HD it is stated on the guide.

Am I missing something or is none of the programming on Food HD actually in HD? Usually if the program is in HD it is stated on the guide.

It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.

I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.

It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.

I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.

And Time Warner has only made it worse with Navigator. The Navigator guide does not identify shows as "HDTV", "Dolby Digital" or "Letterbox" anymore. I find this very irritating even though I can usually spot stretchovision(it's not too hard). But if I want to record on History, A&E, Food, or HGTV I have to risk recording stretchovision crap. If it's stretched, I won't watch it.

And Time Warner has only made it worse with Navigator. The Navigator guide does not identify shows as "HDTV", "Dolby Digital" or "Letterbox" anymore. I find this very irritating even though I can usually spot stretchovision(it's not too hard). But if I want to record on History, A&E, Food, or HGTV I have to risk recording stretchovision crap. If it's stretched, I won't watch it.

Then go to www.zap2it.com or www.titantv.com. They usually will have the HD listings.

I was at work when I posted this so I didn't have much time but nickdawg I thought you were "embracing" Navigator and "accepting" it. Just a few post ago you said that.

Are you taking your meds. :)

And I know I really shouldn't do this but if you go to zap2it.com you can program your dvr from there. That is, if you have the right type of DVR. :)

It used to be all HD all the time, but they decided to mirror the programming on the "regular" channel to the HD channel, and there's a lot less HD on FoodHD now. Stupid decision IMO.

I saw they had an SD version of Good Eats in stretch-o-vision on the HD channel last night. Ugh.:eek: They say television adds 10# to your appearance. Stretch-o-vision must add 25#, then after all those good eats, you end up looking morbidly obese! :D

Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.

And then to top it off it's not real HD?

Thanks again TW.:rolleyes:

I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.

Virtually all new Food Network shows are being filmed in HD and they definitely have a good amount of high definition programming. They just aren't properly labeling all of them.


Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.

And then to top it off it's not real HD?

Thanks again TW.:rolleyes:

Food Channel. What a waste of HD space! FX, USA, SCI FI. I want entertainment not cooking lessons. I don't care how "enjoyable"" they make it.

And then to top it off it's not real HD?

Thanks again TW.:rolleyes:

Don't blame TW on this one - Food Network made the change about a month ago. And FWIW, I find USA, FX and SCI FI completely useless. Each to his own. Stop bashing the Food Network every chance you get.

Then go to www.zap2it.com or www.titantv.com. They usually will have the HD listings.

I was at work when I posted this so I didn't have much time but nickdawg I thought you were "embracing" Navigator and "accepting" it. Just a few post ago you said that.

Are you taking your meds. :)

And I know I really shouldn't do this but if you go to zap2it.com you can program your dvr from there. That is, if you have the right type of DVR. :)

I'm still "accepting" it. I'm also pissed at this problem. The show descriptions are also shorter. I'm hoping this is something that will eventually get fixed. Until then I'll just have to use Titan TV. Punch in zip code 44310 and you'll get the new lineup.

I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.

Virtually all new Food Network shows are being filmed in HD and they definitely have a good amount of high definition programming. They just aren't properly labeling all of them.

At least the NBC/Uni networks and FX are keeping SD in OAR. I'd rather have a network like USA that has lots of HD programming and SD in OAR instead of HGTV, which has lots of stretchovision.

I had posted that my HD8300 locked up and was non functional since last week trying to download the new software. Cathode Kid suggested that even though the normal location had a decent signal, I should try putting the box in a different outlet in the house with fewer splitters in the path.

I tried it tonight and it worked! Both locations seem to have normal functionality, but the software update apparently needs a little higher S/N ratio than normal operation. The other location must have a better signal.

Everything is now back to normal and the external hard drive was recognized and synchronized properly. Now to get used to the new software.

In case anyone else has a similar problem, this may help.

Tip of the hat to Cathode Kid.

I tried it tonight and it worked! Both locations seem to have normal functionality, but the software update apparently needs a little higher S/N ratio than normal operation. The other location must have a better signal.

The 8300 line seems to be picky about signal quality in general. I've had to tweak things in the house for several years to keep everything "happy", even though the signal coming into the house is booming.

I have an 8300HD in the bedroom, and a line running to a pcHDTV card in the attic. If I unplug the cable going to the computer and leave it dangling, the 8300HD absolutely refuses to play any On Demand stuff. (Yes, I'm using good-quality cables.)

Stop bashing the Food Network every chance you get.

I beg your pardon? I'll bash the Food Network anytime I feel like it.

Something's I'll back off off if it's been going on for days at a time. And maybe it's just a misconception on my part. I know things can be written on the internet and not been meant like they sound. This sounds to me like you're telling me what I can or can't say about how I feel about a particular network. I think it's a waste of space and I'm not pleased about TW adding it to the line up.

Now if you didn't mean to come off the way it sounded fine. I understand. But if you did there is an easy way to solve your problem. There is an ignore button.

I hate to tell you this, hook, but FX, USA, and SCI FI are not all HD either.




Yes I know that many of the shows on those networks arn't in HD but the one's I care about are. Shows like Dirt, The Shield, Rescue Me to name a few on FX and on USA The 4400. On Sci-Fi it would be worth it just to see Eureka.

Guys, this is just my opinion. Just the networks I would prefer to see in HD because they have the shows I watch. I love football but could care less about the NFL network - at least as of now. Who knows what it cooking in the minds of the NFL and future broadcasts, but I doubt they will ever go cable exclusive.

I'm still "accepting" it. I'm also pissed at this problem. The show descriptions are also shorter. I'm hoping this is something that will eventually get fixed. Until then I'll just have to use Titan TV. Punch in zip code 44310 and you'll get the new lineup.


You're "accepting" it but.....and then you gripe about something else.;)

I think you're trying hard to accept it. Good luck to you. And about the descriptions? I don't recall how good they were on the SA 8300 but I know that TiVo's descriptions sometimes are not very good either. Sometimes it says something like " a killer is loose and two cops who don't like each other pursue him." That type of thing.

I agree with hookbill. ANY food network is a waste of time as is the half dozen shopping networks TWC added.Since the 8300 cant lock out channels I dont want it just makes searching through the channels that much more agonizing. Also the duplication of the analog tier in the digital space is agravating since there is no quality increase.
Dave

Guys, Food Network is there. Get used to it. If you don't think Time Warner added it for a reason, then you're not thinking clearly. It is one of the most popular niche cable networks. You can be unhappy, but I don't think they'll be dropping it.

Also the duplication of the analog tier in the digital space is agravating since there is no quality increase.

Although, you should see a difference in space necessary to record these channels.

Guys, Food Network is there. Get used to it. If you don't think Time Warner added it for a reason, then you're not thinking clearly. It is one of the most popular niche cable networks. You can be unhappy, but I don't think they'll be dropping it.

Understood. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about our displeasure in this forum. I accept that they've added it and I know there are many people who seem to love the Food Network. I'm just expressing my opinion. And I'll express it as often as I like.

I was just looking at the lineup card for Time Warner's suburban Cleveland system. The HD channels in the 400's doesn't list WEAO-HD. Is that a misprint or aren't they carrying the other PBS station? Is it on QAM?

Here in the Akron system, they carry both PBS HD channels. I can't recall a time when they were not broadcasting identical shows. The standard def channels sometimes are different, but I don't think the HD ones are. This might not be true in strange programming such as auctions and such, which I haven't tuned in, but the prime shows are always identical.

My understanding is that PBS is feeding an HD feed that both stations "pass-through"... but PBS will make it their main feed later this year. It will be a mix of HD and SD, like ABC or CBS now. At that point, the programs on both stations would be considerably different as they are now on analog. Just thought it was strange that they carried both down here in Summit County but not in Cleveland.

A new day and TimeWarner still sucks! Nobody has b!tched about them in a day so I had to say it. :)

I still have not gotten my guide update yet here in North Virginia. My cable box in my bedroom now says "unauthorized" so I have to call TWC yet again. I should have stocked up on Vaseline before I started dealing with this company.

Although, you should see a difference in space necessary to record these channels.

I haven't measured this at all (SA8000HD DVR), but I'm guessing that's incorrect. The "mirrored" analog channels appear to still be analog, even up in the territory above 100. I can't see how that would affect how they're recorded.

Flip back and forth between them, say, CNN at 34 and 350. The tuner doesn't even try to change the channel!

Last night, CNN International (357) was simulcasting CNN's election coverage, and THAT is a digital cable channel.

This is how it is for the new lineup out of TWC in Cleveland. You're in Cincinnati, and they may have the digital versions of the analog cable channels there. We only have the digital feed (SD) versions of the network OTA stations here.

I was just looking at the lineup card for Time Warner's suburban Cleveland system. The HD channels in the 400's doesn't list WEAO-HD. Is that a misprint or aren't they carrying the other PBS station? Is it on QAM?

WEAO-HD was added to the channel lineup card for former Adelphia/Cleveland even back before the lineup change - they started putting it in (710, I think) shortly after the Adelphia acquisition was final.

The HD version of PBS 45 & 49 has, as far as I can tell, never actually been carried on the TWC Cleveland lineup. Of course, 45/49 have had varying problems with carrying, then not carrying, then carrying HD again.

As noted by others, for now, WVIZ and WNEO/WEAO's HD feeds are identical except for the channel ID bugs.

I haven't measured this at all (SA8000HD DVR), but I'm guessing that's incorrect. The "mirrored" analog channels appear to still be analog, even up in the territory above 100. I can't see how that would affect how they're recorded.

Flip back and forth between them, say, CNN at 34 and 350. The tuner doesn't even try to change the channel!

Last night, CNN International (357) was simulcasting CNN's election coverage, and THAT is a digital cable channel.

This is how it is for the new lineup out of TWC in Cleveland. You're in Cincinnati, and they may have the digital versions of the analog cable channels there. We only have the digital feed (SD) versions of the network OTA stations here.

Sorry, I've heard of other cases where TWC puts the digital counterparts to their analog lineup in a higher numbered channel set (some times 800s, sometimes not) and I assumed that was the case here. It seems weird to me that they would map the analog frequencies to two different channel numbers. Are you guys sure these are analog channels and not a digital simulcast? You could always check the frequency of the channel in the diagnostic mode (if still possible) to see if there's a difference.

Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said/written that I've missed?

I did notice an HD version of PBS's news show, "News Hour" I think it's called..?...?
It was on during the 7 PM hour on both PBS HD feeds.

Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said that I've missed?

No idea, who wants to watch infomercials all day? The tower is right down the road from me, and there is usually a car in front of the broadcast building, so at least somebody works there...

Has anyone in the group heard anything lately concerning WOAC (ch.s 67/47)? I was under the impression when they were purchased by Multicultural Broadcasting in 2006 that they were eventually going to some kind of ethnic programming like they have on their other stations but they've remained infomercials 24/7. Has anything more been said/written that I've missed?Multicultural Broadcasting only owned radio stations before they acquired WOAC-TV/DT. I think it was an assumption that the ownership's name would indicate the type of programming carried.

There is such a station (i.e. ethnic TV) in Ontario, it skips down here from time to time on ch 69 (analog). Even then they also carry the usual independent channel fare (I believe I saw a Simpsons rerun once). Anything would be better than all infomercials all the time. Remember when Paxon ran both this station and ch 23 that way before they launched the PAX network?

I did notice an HD version of PBS's news show, "News Hour" I think it's called..?...?
It was on during the 7 PM hour on both PBS HD feeds.It's about time! The News Hour launched in HD awhile ago, yet neither WVIZ or WEAO/WNEO carried it on their HD feed (WQED in Pittsburgh did carry the News Hour HD feed from the get-go). I guess initially a local PBS station had to have the ability to break-away from the PBS HD feed in order to get the News Hour.

You're "accepting" it but.....and then you gripe about something else.;)

I think you're trying hard to accept it. Good luck to you. And about the descriptions? I don't recall how good they were on the SA 8300 but I know that TiVo's descriptions sometimes are not very good either. Sometimes it says something like " a killer is loose and two cops who don't like each other pursue him." That type of thing.

I've had generic descriptions like that occasionally on Passport but now every description is like that. Passport used to list at least three actors in movies. On Navigator we're lucky to get at least one. Tonight's Jay Leno just says "Jay Leno interviews celebrities and hosts musical performances". Titan TV lists his guests.

I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete


Sincerely,
Mark
Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative



Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.

I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete


Sincerely,
Mark
Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative



Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.

Well, that will teach you to email them and ask for customer service!:D

I've had generic descriptions like that occasionally on Passport but now every description is like that. Passport used to list at least three actors in movies. On Navigator we're lucky to get at least one. Tonight's Jay Leno just says "Jay Leno interviews celebrities and hosts musical performances". Titan TV lists his guests.

Here's TiVo's: President Jimmy Carter; director Jon Favreau; P.O.D performs.

Here's TiVo's: President Jimmy Carter; director Jon Favreau; P.O.D performs.

I also found that at Titan TV. Doesn't Titan TV or one of those TV guide websites supply Tivo with their guide data? Time Warner should seriously invest in better guide data.

I can see another daily ritual for me: checking the online TV guide:rolleyes:

I wonder what other good musical guests I missed b/c Navigator? :mad: I see P.O.D. is on tonight. :D

That is so sad. They should not have put in their original letter that it would be rolled out in March and April if that would not be the case. I am getting tired of waiting.


I emailed Time Warner today to ask when we would get the change over in Amherst and this is the answer I got:

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate the opportunity to respond to our customers.
There is no exact time frame on when it will be completed....the re-alignment started in Canton in early March..the whole region will take several weeks to complete


Sincerely,
Mark
Your On-Line Time Warner Cable Representative



Also I got my bill today and I see cable card went from $2.50 to $3.10.

I also found that at Titan TV. Doesn't Titan TV or one of those TV guide websites supply Tivo with their guide data? Time Warner should seriously invest in better guide data.

I can see another daily ritual for me: checking the online TV guide:rolleyes:

I wonder what other good musical guests I missed b/c Navigator? :mad: I see P.O.D. is on tonight. :D

No, Titan doesn't provide guide for TiVo. It's provided by Tribune Media, which owns zap2it.com and a few other things like The Chicago Tribune, The L.A. Times, and I believe they own WGN.

I have no idea who or what P.O.D. is but I'll bet that their music sounds like a P.O.S.;)

That is so sad. They should not have put in their original letter that it would be rolled out in March and April if that would not be the case. I am getting tired of waiting.

I'm really not trying to start trouble here with the TiVo vs SA 8300 thing, but what is interesting is that really I could have had the new lineup a month ago had I actually paid attention to the TiVo Lineup specialist that phoned me. He told me I could get the new line up by redoing guided setup and selecting Franklin instead of Aurora but I didn't think that was possible and said I would wait.

I still don't know how or why my TiVo HD got the new lineup on it's own but running guided setup is how I got the new line up for the S3 and selecting the now available Cleveland digital line up.

Isn't it odd that I could control the line up change for my area before regular subscribers could? But it doesn't matter now since I did what I usually do and never believe anything a CSR tells me, although in this case this guy was a lineup specialist.

I'm really not trying to start trouble here with the TiVo vs SA 8300 thing, but what is interesting is that really I could have had the new lineup a month ago had I actually paid attention to the TiVo Lineup specialist that phoned me. He told me I could get the new line up by redoing guided setup and selecting Franklin instead of Aurora but I didn't think that was possible and said I would wait.

I still don't know how or why my TiVo HD got the new lineup on it's own but running guided setup is how I got the new line up for the S3 and selecting the now available Cleveland digital line up.

Isn't it odd that I could control the line up change for my area before regular subscribers could? But it doesn't matter now since I did what I usually do and never believe anything a CSR tells me, although in this case this guy was a lineup specialist.

It wouldn't work. If the channels are not being broadcast by your head end, they are not going to show up on your TV. With generic IPGs like Tivo or the one that comes built in on many new TVs, you can select different cable/satellite systems and get the lineup. But if your provider doesn't have the channel, you're still not going to get it. You got the new lineup now because that's when your headend made the changes.

Are you guys sure these are analog channels and not a digital simulcast? You could always check the frequency of the channel in the diagnostic mode (if still possible) to see if there's a difference.

Not only is the signal clearly analog (complete with the usual analog fuzz), a channel change between 34 and 350 doesn't even cause a "blip" in the picture.

If 350 was a digital simulcast, it'd take the usual second and change to decode.

All the other new lineup 100-plus channels that have analog versions act that way, or at least the half-dozen or so I've tried.

As I mentioned, the OTA broadcast stations (3/5/8/19) have been digitally subbed since the Adelphia days, and they do indeed come up in digital on the boxes.

We went through this when it happened, but they did (pre-lineup change) show up also in the 800's - but the analog got pushed up there on the box. The digital simulcast version replaces the analog version on channel positions 3/4/5/8 (4 is where they put CBS affiliate WOIO/19). The new 100-plus lineup versions of the analog channels don't act this way.

It wouldn't work. If the channels are not being broadcast by your head end, they are not going to show up on your TV. With generic IPGs like Tivo or the one that comes built in on many new TVs, you can select different cable/satellite systems and get the lineup. But if your provider doesn't have the channel, you're still not going to get it. You got the new lineup now because that's when your headend made the changes.

Depends on how you look at it... There are two things taking place - addition of the new HD channels, and the reorg of the channels. As far as the additional channels, I'll agree that if the headend isn't sending it to you, you're not gonna pick it up. (Duh. :) )

However, the reorg is a different matter. Since only digital channels are being affected, and the IPG lineup is essentially a mapping of channel number to frequency and subchannel, it's entirely possible that TiVo users could make use of the new mappings before the new IPG tables are pushed out to SA8300 boxes in the area. The data streams reside on the same frequency/subchannel as before, just the channel numbers change.

I can get the same effect by manually tweaking the channel lineup on my MythTV box. If I want WJW-HD to show up as channel 9285, it's just a matter of changing an entry in a lookup table. I did this a year ago because I didn't like the Akron channel numbering. Made WKYC 903, WEWS 905, WJW 908, WUAB 943, WOIO 919, etc. (9 + the broadcast channel number.)

Depends on how you look at it... There are two things taking place - addition of the new HD channels, and the reorg of the channels. As far as the additional channels, I'll agree that if the headend isn't sending it to you, you're not gonna pick it up. (Duh. :) )

However, the reorg is a different matter. Since only digital channels are being affected, and the IPG lineup is essentially a mapping of channel number to frequency and subchannel, it's entirely possible that TiVo users could make use of the new mappings before the new IPG tables are pushed out to SA8300 boxes in the area. The data streams reside on the same frequency/subchannel as before, just the channel numbers change.

I can get the same effect by manually tweaking the channel lineup on my MythTV box. If I want WJW-HD to show up as channel 9285, it's just a matter of changing an entry in a lookup table. I did this a year ago because I didn't like the Akron channel numbering. Made WKYC 903, WEWS 905, WJW :)908, WUAB 943, WOIO 919, etc. (9 + the broadcast channel number.)

I think I have to agree with Nickdawg. When you run your guided set up TiVo ask what you see on certain channels. Usually they provide 2 choices for each two different local channels. In this case both of the channels were on the rearranged analog lineup. It use to be WVIZ and EWTN. This time it was HSN and a community channel.

However that doesn't mean that Franklin isn't on the same head-end that Aurora is. The idea that Tribune Media was trying to get to me was if they already have made the changes in my area and they hadn't set up the line up yet, select Franklin as opposed to Aurora.

And when I ran guided set up this time it gave me Aurora, Franklin and City of Cleveland. Also by that time zap2it.com had changed their lineup to include Cleveland Digital Realignment on their web page. And also TiVo didn't ask me at all about any digital channels. For those of you who don't know TiVo in the guided set up will present channels until you recognize them. Once you see two that are the same then they start the guided setup. So if you did know HSN or like in my case originally EWTN they offer another channel that you might recognize.

Matter of fact I generally delete all religious channels off my TiVo just in the off chance that I decide to let it record suggestions. When you get a new TiVo it will throw a few of those at you. :)

I guess I'll never know if it would have worked since I didn't try. I should have tried it.

Or make that a new undocumented feature.

We subscribe to DW TV, a German Language channel. My wife is a German teacher and sometimes copies shows to DVR and then edits and copies over to tape or DVD to use in the classroom.

After the conversion to Navigator, everything seems OK and DW can be viewed just fine live. Any recording goes through, but plays back with no sound. I just had a TW tech out last night and he confirmed it by hooking up another 8300 box and duplicated the problem.

Apparently, we are the first to report it. I don't know if it is the same with any other premium foreign language channel.

They are now checking to see if it is a problem at the head end in transmission or with the Navigator software, but it has to be Navigator since it works fine with Passport.

No, Titan doesn't provide guide for TiVo. It's provided by Tribune Media, which owns zap2it.com and a few other things like The Chicago Tribune, The L.A. Times, and I believe they own WGN.

I have no idea who or what P.O.D. is but I'll bet that their music sounds like a P.O.S.;)


F.Y.I. - P.O.D. is a christian rock band.

-Ed

Yes, my whole house is now navigator'ed...:confused:

Anyone else notice the big push by AT&T to take away market share from TWC in particular? They are pushing their dish package and Uverse as well. No Uverse on my street yet.

Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.

Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.

DTV Coupons are for converters only. Converting Digital to Analog.

- CECBs must convert all ATSC formats to NTSC. The units must support a 4:3 center crop of a 16:9 transmitted image, and a letterbox rendition of a 16:9 transmitted image

- The following output features are prohibited per CECB specs: Component video, VGA, RGB, DVI, HDMI, USB video, IEEE-1394/iLink/Firewire video, Ethernet video, and IEEE-802.11/Wifi video outputs

Wiki DTV Coupon eligible STB's with basic feature comparisons (I don't know how complete this list is):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

Does anyone know whether the digital converter boxes that the government is offering coupons for will (a) allow your old analog TV to receive a digital signal, or (b) convert the digital signal being picked up by your antenna to an analog signal on the set ? I am confused as to which will be happening. The government web site only says the converter boxes will allow your analog TV to keep working after Feb. 17, 2009, but doesn't say how.

Bit confused by your wording - the converter boxes do both (a) and (b) ...

Hook rabbit ears to new converter box --> box converts digital OTA (including HD channels) to 480i format --> outputs composite audio/video to your analog TV (the boxes also have a coax cable RF channel 3/4 output as well)

The converter boxes will take the DIGITAL signals and convert them into ANALOG so that your analog tv will be able to accept the signal.

DTV Coupons are for converters only. Converting Digital to Analog.

So is there another device that allows an analog TV to get a digital signal OTA? Is that a digital tuner ?

Bit confused by your wording - the converter boxes do both (a) and (b) ...

Hook rabbit ears to new converter box --> box converts digital OTA (including HD channels) to 480i format --> outputs composite audio/video to your analog TV (the boxes also have a coax cable RF channel 3/4 output as well)

So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?

So is there another device that allows an analog TV to get a digital signal OTA? Is that a digital tuner ?

Yes, but you are still doing the same thing when connecting to an analog TV: converting digital to analog resulting in an NTSC 480i image. You will just have to compare and match up your TV's available inputs with the different CECB box's available ouputs.

So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?

Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).

However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.

Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).

However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.

They will take a HDTV signal or and SDTV signal and convert to analog output, either RF CH 3-4 or component video, audio L & R. Most allow selection of center-cut or letterbox video. EPG is supported. Some will bypass and allow analog signals to go directly to the outputs. That will be handy until the shutoff or after for receiving low power or translators which will remain analog after Feb 2009. wikipedia "set top box" for a list of boxes and specs.

So you are saying the converter box can do either depending on whether your analog TV has a composite audio/video connection. Older analog TVs do not, meaning you will only get an analog signal on those. Is that right ?

As far as I know, all the coupon-eligible converter boxes (CECBs) have a composite audio/video output as well as an RF output. So your analog TV can be connected to the CECB via the yellow/red/white wire (composite), or via a coaxial cable, and your TV is then tuned to channel 3 or 4. You will use the remote for the CECB to tune to the digital over-the-air stations such as 3-1, 3-2, 5-1, 8-1, 19-1, 19-2, 43-1, etc. Regardless of whether those channels are SD 4:3 format or HD 16:9 format, they will be passed to your analog TV. You can tell the CECB to pass the channels in letterbox format (with black bars on the top) or "zoomed" to cut out the middle 4:3 portion.

Bottom line whether your old analog TV has composite ("yellow jack") input or just a coaxial cable input, you will be able to receive all of the over-the-air digital channels using the CECB.

Heck, even if your old TV only had twin-lead inputs, you could put a balun (coax to twin lead) adapter on the TV, tune the TV to channel 3 or 4, and connect a CECB to it and view the digital channels.

Don't know what outputs the device will have. Hopefully, they will have coaxial (i.e., the older set I think you are describing), composite, and s-video. Any of these are analog. Coaxial will be available on all (worst signal), composite on most (next best) and s-video on some (best).

However, I wouldn't bet money that they will be capable of taking a HD broadcast (720p or 1080i) and downconverting them to analog 480i. They may only be capable of receiving and converting a 480i digital to 480i analog.

I believe both RF (coax) and Composite (RCA) are mandated ouputs. S-video is optional. These CECB converters are doing exactly that, converting Digital OTA 720/1080 to Analog 480.

They will take a HDTV signal or and SDTV signal and convert to analog output, either RF CH 3-4 or component video, audio L & R. Most allow selection of center-cut or letterbox video. EPG is supported. Some will bypass and allow analog signals to go directly to the outputs. That will be handy until the shutoff or after for receiving low power or translators which will remain analog after Feb 2009. wikipedia "set top box" for a list of boxes and specs.

Errr - not "component" video! I think you mean "composite". The CECBs are not allowed to have HD output (component, HDMI or DVI)

Got to be careful when typing this stuff up, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there.

It converts digital to analog, and man what a great picture compared to what it was. All 3 of my birds in that room give it 5 chirps and my cockatoo gives several screams.

Of course that has nothing to do with the television. Seriously it sure makes a nice picture on a very small television.

Of course it can't come close to HD but still much better. But I can't get WKYC with rabbit ears.

Errr - not "component" video! I think you mean "composite". The CECBs are not allowed to have HD output (component, HDMI or DVI)

Got to be careful when typing this stuff up, there's so much misinformation and confusion out there.

Well that sucks. Looks like I might end up just buying the box myself. I have an analog SD TV in the kitchen that I wanted a box for, but I still want the HDMI/Component ouptuts b/c that TV isn't gonna last forever. I want to be able to use it for HD later on. Maybe even on my main HDTV if Time Warner pisses me off enough. ;);)

Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.

Well that sucks. Looks like I might end up just buying the box myself. I have an analog SD TV in the kitchen that I wanted a box for, but I still want the HDMI/Component ouptuts b/c that TV isn't gonna last forever. I want to be able to use it for HD later on. Maybe even on my main HDTV if Time Warner pisses me off enough. ;);)

Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.

Yes, combo OTA and QAM tuner STB's are out there (this is what I use), but QAM is specifically prohibited on the DTV Coupon boxes.

You might want to just get the simplistic coupon box for now then when you upgrade the tv get either built in tuners (OTA/QAM) or get an HD OTA STB tuner with QAM at that time.

Lots of good info here today. Does anyone know if any of these boxes are capable of getting unencrypted digital cable signals, similar to the ATSC TV tuners? I know they probably are not coupon eligible, but I just want to know if they are out there.

QAM (unencrypted digital cable) tuning not allowed in the gub-ment subsidized CECBs.

Here's the rundown of the specifications:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CECB

There are boxes out there that will do QAM and ATSC, like the Samsung DTB-H260F which costs around $179. Totally ridiculous pricing considering the guts of the $179 box are almost the same as the new $50 boxes.

Yah, ones with QAM are out there. I've had one for about a year that works great on the tv in my kids playroom. Puts out a nice clean 480i pic. The one I have sure didn't cost 179. I think I paid like 89 or something, and I think they can be had much cheaper now on eBay.

QAM (unencrypted digital cable) tuning not allowed in the gub-ment subsidized CECBs.

Here's the rundown of the specifications:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CECB

There are boxes out there that will do QAM and ATSC, like the Samsung DTB-H260F which costs around $179. Totally ridiculous pricing considering the guts of the $179 box are almost the same as the new $50 boxes.

Yeah, that's my box, the H260f. Many of the guts are obviously similar. Where these boxes separate themselves from the cheaper versions is options. But the feature set on an H260f is not on many boxes.

Typical CECB box features:
- L/R Audio
- RF (coax) video out
- Composite video out
- S-video (maybe)
- ATSC tuner (but limited to downconverting to NTSC)

For an H260f take the $40 to $60 dollar range CECB box (like above) and add:
- addl. L/R Audio
- addl. Composite video out
- HDMI output (audio & video)
- Component output
- Digital Optical Audio
- selectable output resolution (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i)
- QAM tuner

Whether these addl. features are worth another $100 only you can decide. These features have been well worth the extra $$$ to me! :D

You may have to do some retrofitting for analog TV's with built-in antennas. On some of the cheaper TV's the antenna may be hard-wired inside the TV and/or have an external antenna input that is not a standard co-ax (i.e. a mini plug). Someone at work had this problem with a kitchen TV.

The kids were watching Nick this morning, and an Armstrong commercial came on for their DVR. They said something about "now you can start watching a show on one TV and finish watching on another." I don't think they were talking about VOD, but I guess they could have been.

Anybody know about this? Is box-to-box networking a feature of the Pace units? I might be tempted to switch out the Motorolas if this is the case.

I think that would be a Scientific Atlanta box. With the right hardware/software the 8300HD can be a multi-room DVR with other SA boxes(3250HD, 4250HD, 3100HD).

Looks like yet another reason to hate Time Warner. They can't even change their lineups in the month like they promised and they can't succesfully download new software for ONE DVR!!

I think that would be a Scientific Atlanta box. With the right hardware/software the 8300HD can be a multi-room DVR with other SA boxes(3250HD, 4250HD, 3100HD).


I seem to remember that from somewhere as well, but I thought you had to run a splitter from the out to TV and then wire it.

I started into a little thing about the possibility of that being real and before you know it I was taking shots at the 8300 again. Realzing what I was doing I deleted that but I would like to know how it works. And for the record TiVo can't do that.

This is the instruction manual for MR-DVR from Scientific Atlanta:

http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4003869.pdf

The manual shows the MR-DVR with the SARA operating system. Again this shows the stupidity of Time Warner deciding to use Navigator. To think they are getting rid of a much better system with many possibilities and replacing it with that navigator garbage. :mad: :mad:

This is the instruction manual for MR-DVR from Scientific Atlanta:

http://scientificatlanta.com/products/consumers/userguidepdfs/4003869.pdf

The manual shows the MR-DVR with the SARA operating system. Again this shows the stupidity of Time Warner deciding to use Navigator. To think they are getting rid of a much better system with many possibilities and replacing it with that navigator garbage. :mad: :mad:

I see. That's really a different model, the SA 8300 MVR. TW wasn't using that one anyway. Probably cost more to use them.;)

And I'm glad to see that you are so embracing these changes!:rolleyes: You can see in your post that each day you are becoming more accepting and less bitter.:p

Picked up the new TW channel lineup this afternoon some time. It wasn't there this morning, but all the new HD channels are now there. 445, 446,447,448. Looks like they are finally getting to the rest of the old Adelphia network.

North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville

North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville

Hmm, that's odd. In the new TWC lineup card, North Royalton and Strongsville are paired with "Suburban Cleveland 2" along with places like North Olmsted, Westlake, Garfield Heights and Valley View. Hinckley is in "Suburban Cleveland 1".

The lineups don't seem different from what I can see, but they're paired together that way in the lineup cards.

Which of the three are you in?

The kids were watching Nick this morning, and an Armstrong commercial came on for their DVR. They said something about "now you can start watching a show on one TV and finish watching on another." I don't think they were talking about VOD, but I guess they could have been.

Anybody know about this? Is box-to-box networking a feature of the Pace units? I might be tempted to switch out the Motorolas if this is the case.

It is VOD only. You can order on one dct and watch on another that is in the same account. It works with any make or model of box.

Hmm, that's odd. In the new TWC lineup card, North Royalton and Strongsville are paired with "Suburban Cleveland 2" along with places like North Olmsted, Westlake, Garfield Heights and Valley View. Hinckley is in "Suburban Cleveland 1".

The lineups don't seem different from what I can see, but they're paired together that way in the lineup cards.

Which of the three are you in?

I am in Hinckley. My headend is in Strongsville (at least what I have been told when they came out multiple times to fix my cable modem), with feeds though North Royalton.

Picked up the new TW channel lineup this afternoon some time. It wasn't there this morning, but all the new HD channels are now there. 445, 446,447,448. Looks like they are finally getting to the rest of the old Adelphia network.

North Royalton / Hinckley / Strongsville

Cleveland gets rocked beginning Tuesday morning.

Cleveland gets rocked beginning Tuesday morning.

Hmmmm....seems like we heard this a couple of months ago about this Tuesday thing.:)

Tribune Media (zap2it.com) only offers one Cleveland lineup, so I don't think there is any difference anymore between the Suburbs and Cleveland.

I just recieved a call from my wife who said they began the reallignment in Mentor this morning. She said she noticed the locals were not where they used to be (200s) when she turned the TV on to view her morning shows. When she found what was labeled as the HD locals she said the picture looked nothing like HD so she turned the set off and went on to other things. It sounds like they still have some work to do.

Ray

New lineup is now in Amherst too.

Bay Village has been realigned. Anybody know where the VOD QAM channels are mapped in Bay Village. So far I have found 82.x and 83.x but there has to be at least one more. I can request a VOD movie and it often plays on 82.x or 83.x but sometimes it does not. I am guessing that there is another channel it shows up on. Any thoughts?

Well kudos go to Cathode kid. It appears his prediction is true as we can see from the prevous post.

We'll forget about that original post back in March. Hey, when you bat .500 you're doing pretty darn good!:)

Bay Village has been realigned. Anybody know where the VOD QAM channels are mapped in Bay Village. So far I have found 82.x and 83.x but there has to be at least one more. I can request a VOD movie and it often plays on 82.x or 83.x but sometimes it does not. I am guessing that there is another channel it shows up on. Any thoughts?

Try useing the channel up and channel down buttons on your remote.

It does not show up on any of the channels that my tuner found (and yes, I did a channel scan while the the VOD was playing). Is anyone aware of any new encryption technology that TWC has adopted that permits VOD to be encrypted (even while fast forwarding etc.)?

It may be that the the "new" system in not quite finished being installed. Therefore not all channels/features are available.

Finally, we got the new lineup out in the North Ridgeville/Elyria area
this morning. Does anyone out there still use the Motorola box from the former Comcast areas? Mine still works fine, except that ever since TWC took over, the on-demand has never worked. Every time I try to connect, the blue box pops up that says communications error, please try again. Does anyone else with a Moto box have the same problem or am I the only one?

Ben Music

Well kudos go to Cathode kid. It appears his prediction is true as we can see from the prevous post.

We'll forget about that original post back in March. Hey, when you bat .500 you're doing pretty darn good!:)

Check your lineup tomorrow morning, Hookbill. ;)

Check your lineup tomorrow morning, Hookbill. ;)

Dude.....my lineup has been changed for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if you read the post but one of my TiVo's picked up the new lineup, the other didn't. TiVo actually called me and told me to run guided set up and select Cleveland and there was the new lineup.

I don't know how one received it without running the guided setup. It's probably been around for a while now.

Dude.....my lineup has been changed for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if you read the post but one of my TiVo's picked up the new lineup, the other didn't. TiVo actually called me and told me to run guided set up and select Cleveland and there was the new lineup.

I don't know how one received it without running the guided setup. It's probably been around for a while now.

Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're not served by Macedonia but from points farther north. You're correct. But others there will notice the change.

Sorry, I keep forgetting that you're not served by Macedonia but from points farther north. You're correct. But others there will notice the change.

Nope, I'm served by Concord. Switched my area over several months ago.

Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.

Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.

I don't use TWC but most cable companies don't provide HDMI cables. Usually RG6 coax or component at best.

I know this is a little off topic, but with all the changes happening at TW, are any of them supposed to effect their internet service?

I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.

As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.

If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home. That, and the fact that it died on a Tuesday, leads me to suspect TW.

When I call TW support, they direct me to a page to test to see if they are blocking my mail server. The test says everthing is fine.

Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?

Well, I wanted to see what all this line up talk was all about ans TWC inticed me with a cheap 3 month deal to dry a DVR / HD Digital Box. When they come and do the install do they bring an HDMI cable? What can I expect? I've been using mt QAM tuner with basic cable up until now.

TWC will not provide an HDMI cable. They "may" provide a component video cable though. I would just hook it up via component video with the optical audio connection to start and get the HDMI cable later. MonoPrice in the link on top of this page has some good pricing for HDMI cables. I do not yet have HDMI inputs on my present reciever and I am guite happy with the component connection on the cable box. I do use an HDMI to DVI cable to the input on my TV for my PS3 so BR disks and other video sources are upconverted to my 720P set.

Ray

Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?

I'm pretty sure all the video changes have nothing to do with Internet service. I don't see how they could, actually.

What port does your SMTP service use? I have no problems using Gmail's outgoing SMTP port (587, I think).

I can't explain the test page showing no blocking, tho.

Realignment occured here in Sagamore Hills today. A couple things though:

1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.

2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?

I'm glad I finally got some new HD channels, but it's still far short of what I want. Any input on the above points would be appreciated. Thanks.

2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?

Just a rough guess, but have you tried rebooting the box? I had the same happen on my 8300HD a while back except it was with the weather channel on position 25 when the box was set to just go to the last tuned channel. A reboot seemed to fix it immediately.

EDIT: I am over in Warren in the legacy TWC area. As orange5814 stated in the below post, it may possibly be left over from Adelphia. But a reboot wouldn't hurt to try.

Realignment occured here in Sagamore Hills today. A couple things though:

1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.

2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?

I'm glad I finally got some new HD channels, but it's still far short of what I want. Any input on the above points would be appreciated. Thanks.


1. Twinsburg has the new line-up, but no Navigator.

2. My box also defaults to channel 71. About 3 years ago, Adelphia disabled the "power on" channel feature. My box used to be able to select "last channel tuned" , or you could pick a channel.

I have heard that they are re-enabling the feature with Navigator ?????

I know this is a little off topic, but with all the changes happening at TW, are any of them supposed to effect their internet service?

I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.

As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.

If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home. That, and the fact that it died on a Tuesday, leads me to suspect TW.

When I call TW support, they direct me to a page to test to see if they are blocking my mail server. The test says everthing is fine.

Is there any way to find out if anything happened in Solon this week?

I think it's just a coincidence that it happened on a day that the channels were realigned in some areas. Can you still surf the web from the office?

1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.


The lineup change and the Navigator change are two different things that are happening at around the same time.

I'm in the old Adelphia area in western Summit County, and we've had the new lineup for a couple or three weeks now, but neither of my boxes are Navigatored yet.

1. Still have the old SARA software. I thought it was supposed to be this new Navagator software with the "prettier" interface.



I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.

I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.

Another indication of how nickdawg is accepting and embracing Navigator.;):D

Folks to the west (Avon, Bay Village, etc) check your lineup tomorrow morning. Ben, I believe your new Music arrives tomorrow.

Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.:)

Anyway, can a couple of you guys who use TW try it and let me know if you have any luck? Appreciate it. I did phone it in but who knows if anything will happen.

Thanks in advance.

Another indication of how nickdawg is accepting and embracing Navigator.;):D

I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house:D:D

I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house:D:D

I dunno. I have Navigator here in Warren on an 8300HDC box and aside from some very minor slowdown and horrendous hard-boot times (very few reboots here, btw, unless I initiate myself) in comparison to my previous 8000 running passport, haven't yet seen any major showstopping problems.

*shrug* Maybe I'm just more lenient on Time Warner in their development of a (roughly) 6 month old application in comparison to something like SARA or Passport which has been in development for years now.

Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.:)

I was able to bring it up from here over RR... I did a little testing from four different providers (TWC, XO, AT&T, and Megapath) - they're all showing signs of routing table confusion at Level3 near Washington...

I have a laptop computer, and get my e-mail service from an independent server via SMTP Relay. TW is my ISP, both at home in Lyndhurst and at the office in Solon.

As of yesterday, I cannot send e-mail from my office in Solon. Everything works fine from home.

If it was the mail server, it seems like it wouldn't work from anywhere. It is not the computer setup, because it still works from home.

It's not unusual for ISPs to block outgoing connections to port 25 (SMTP) other than to their own mail servers to cut down on the spam leaving their networks. Effective (sorta), but very annoying. AT&T loves to do this in some areas but not in others...

Unfortunately, this practice tends to come and go depending on who's in charge and what mood they're in...

I dunno. I have Navigator here in Warren on an 8300HDC box and aside from some very minor slowdown and horrendous hard-boot times (very few reboots here, btw, unless I initiate myself) in comparison to my previous 8000 running passport, haven't yet seen any major showstopping problems.

*shrug* Maybe I'm just more lenient on Time Warner in their development of a (roughly) 6 month old application in comparison to something like SARA or Passport which has been in development for years now.

It's actually not a 6 month old application. Navigator is really Mystro Digital Navigator(MDN) which was developed for Time Warner DVRs back around 2003 For whatever reason it was shelved in favor of Passport/SARA until around 2006 when it was unsuccessfully deployed in Nebraska. It also made an appearance again in 2007 after the cable card legislation was passed requiring new cable STBs to have cable cards. A new software platform was needed for this, so ODN-OCAP Digital Navigator came into the picture. I've had experience with the HDC boxes, particularly the 8300, and it was a POS. Much worse than the current 8300HD I have.

Now TW is releasing Navigator in an attempt to have a standardized guide across all systems as well as a platform for new features like Start Over and other interactive TV features. The thing that angers me about this is it's unnecessary. Both Passport and SARS are capable of features similar to the ones on Navigator. All it would require is some $$$ spent on new software licenses.

True Passport and SARA did have some problems early on, but they were resolved. I've been using Passport DVR since the early days(2004) and it's improved since then.

The main problem is they're trying to fix something that isn't broken. They've replaced a solid, familiar product with something buggy and foreign. I have had a reboot just from flipping through the guide. Also it has been forcing everything into PCM 48 since this morning when there was an EAS test.

True Passport and SARA did have some problems early on, but they were resolved. I've been using Passport DVR since the early days(2004) and it's improved since then.

The main problem is they're trying to fix something that isn't broken. They've replaced a solid, familiar product with something buggy and foreign. I have had a reboot just from flipping through the guide. Also it has been forcing everything into PCM 48 since this morning when there was an EAS test.

ROFLMAO

I'll be fair, TiVo has it's share of problems as well. Even I have got hit with some buggy features lateley like handshaking issues when going from SD to HD via an HDMI to DVI connection. And then there is this new TiVo Desktop that sucks up more memory then my Dyson sucks up dirt.

I see you enjoy this. Just wait till Navigator comes to your house:D:D

Remember Nickdawg, take the meds. Navigator will never come to my house. I have that TiVo thing.....;)

Hey guys, the last two nights I've been trying to reach amazon.com. I keep stalling. It seems as I track it I get hung up in Washington DC as it travels around the net. Yeah, I know what a surprise.:)

Anyway, can a couple of you guys who use TW try it and let me know if you have any luck? Appreciate it. I did phone it in but who knows if anything will happen.

Thanks in advance.
Hook, I just got off the Roadrunner forum on Broadband Reports and this is a known "server maintenance" problem that they (TWC) is "working on." A work-around is to disable javascript in your browser and/or go in with https:// instead of http://.

It's not unusual for ISPs to block outgoing connections to port 25 (SMTP) other than to their own mail servers to cut down on the spam leaving their networks. Effective (sorta), but very annoying. AT&T loves to do this in some areas but not in others...

Unfortunately, this practice tends to come and go depending on who's in charge and what mood they're in...

Thank you all for your suggestions. My SMTP server responds to port 25, but will also work with port 80 and port 3535. All ports work from Lyndhurst. The problems started on Tuesday, in both Solon and Moreland Hills. In all three locations TW is the ISP. I have no problems surfing the web, or receiving e-mail.

When I call TW, they say that because I can telnet into the SMTP server, it is not their fault. When I call Go Daddy, they say that the Outlook log shows that the SMTP server responded to the EHLO command. The fact that it timed out means that no more commands were sent. Because it works from home, there is nothing wrong with my computer or with the SMTP server, and it must be TW.

I understand both arguments, but no one will investigate further, and no one seems to be able to give me a definitive test to identify where the problem is.

The TW rep did say that he has received more calls about this SMTP server in the last two days then he has in the last three years. The call he took before mine was from somebody in LA.

.

2. My box has always been set to channel 71 upon turning the box on. I've had the 8300HD in more than a few markets (alwyas able to change the setting) & I never understood why I can't change this setting on TWC boxes. Anyway, now 71 is this COMMTV station & it's just a blue picture. Anyway to change this?



I use an MX70 remote, and programmed a macro to both power the unit on, and change the channel. This may not be an option for you, but it works for me.

Hey Hook,

I got the new channel lineup ok on my Moto box here in Ridgeville this week, but my Tivo s3 doesn't seem to want to update. I tried a channel rescan but it still shows the old lineup. Is there some trick that I should use to make it work?

Ben Music

Hey Hook,

I got the new channel lineup ok on my Moto box here in Ridgeville this week, but my Tivo s3 doesn't seem to want to update. I tried a channel rescan but it still shows the old lineup. Is there some trick that I should use to make it work?

Ben Music

Ben, when you did your rescan with your zip code what did it offer for you? If your regular area doesn't work and it shows Cleveland or another nearby area pick that one and see what happens.

If it just shows only area, call TiVo. But it should show more then just one choice. I had a choice of either Aurora, which would have been my regular (old) lineup, Cleveland, and also another choice and they told me a while back to use that choice if they didn't have a change by then.

Hook, I just got off the Roadrunner forum on Broadband Reports and this is a known "server maintenance" problem that they (TWC) is "working on." A work-around is to disable javascript in your browser and/or go in with https:// instead of http://.

Thanks for the info. I had a feeling it might be a java issue because it seemed images were hanging.

I wonder what Amazon.com feels about that. :)

I thought all the new channels(100's, 200's, 300's etc.) we just got from Time Warner were digital. Sci Fi, TCM, etc. are still analog. All they did was group the channels and gave a few HD channels.

I thought all the new channels(100's, 200's, 300's etc.) we just got from Time Warner were digital. Sci Fi, TCM, etc. are still analog. All they did was group the channels and gave a few HD channels.

Do tell!:rolleyes:

We discussed this seveal pages back. Yes, they are just mirror channels of the analog. The point of putting them on those channels was to "group" them into categories, because Time Warner thinks it thinks like we do.:D

I hate to break it to you, but when Navigator comes it will NOT be a "prettier" interface. What it really is, a dark, dingy, less user-friendly interface. And be prepared for shorter and even non-existent program descriptions.

Learn why words are in quotes. Usually means sarcasm. If I really meant prettier, I wouldn't have put it in "quotes."

Remember Nickdawg, take the meds. Navigator will never come to my house. I have that TiVo thing.....;)

Didn't you say you have a 3100HD or something on another TV for VOD?

Learn why words are in quotes. Usually means sarcasm. If I really meant prettier, I wouldn't have put it in "quotes."

Nice sarcasm:D Sometimes sarcasm and the intended message can get lost in typing. Just wanted to be sure you knew what you were in for with Navigator.

Didn't you say you have a 3100HD or something on another TV for VOD?

Yeah, I had a STB for a while in the bedroom and it worked just fine. I think in was the 3600HD. Only problem with it really was that eveytime I looked at the menu it reminded me of the SA 8300.:p

Since I replaced it with the TiVo HD I was able to use the DVI which wasn't activated on the SA 3600. And that was fine until TiVo did their latest update which was 9.3. When they did that one it was suppose to fix bugs but it also seems to have cause some people problems. With me it caused a handshaking issue with the television and HDMI to DVI plug in.

I disconnected it and went back to component which I had with the SA STB. TiVo really struck out there. In order to make it work correctly I for HD I had to go to a digital or analog channel, wait about 1 minute and then go to the HD channel. Otherwise everything looked kind of green, and yes I had my components plugged in correctly.

I ended up going back to the DVI-HDMI because to fix that problem it's just turn the set off and then back on.

This however is nothing like the problems I had with the SA 8300 of course. Still, it seems that different televisions can cause some problems for TiVo. But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.

This however is nothing like the problems I had with the SA 8300 of course. Still, it seems that different televisions can cause some problems for TiVo. But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.

Many set manufacturers seem to have trouble implementing HDMI/HDCP correctly. Restarting the set forces a new handshake and crypto setup. The thing is the handshake should be kept alive at all times, even when the HDMI input is deselected or the set is turned off (even though it's not really "off" when it's off). It causes a lot of aggravation.

Many set manufacturers seem to have trouble implementing HDMI/HDCP correctly. Restarting the set forces a new handshake and crypto setup. The thing is the handshake should be kept alive at all times, even when the HDMI input is deselected or the set is turned off (even though it's not really "off" when it's off). It causes a lot of aggravation.

I think it's the hdmi to dvi connector, because my other TV is straight HDMI and I have no problems.

However I didn't have this problem until TiVo installed 9.3.

If it just shows only area, call TiVo. But it should show more then just one choice. I had a choice of either Aurora, which would have been my regular (old) lineup, Cleveland, and also another choice and they told me a while back to use that choice if they didn't have a change by then.

The lineup I successfully used on my TiVo S2 was named "Time Warner City of Cleveland". I'm in the old Adelphia area in western Summit County, and had to use ZIP 44321 (Copley) to get it. He can probably get it by grabbing a western suburban ZIP in Cuyahoga County that used to be Adelphia, but that's just a guess.

Was North Ridgeville an old Adelphia region?

But one thing....It never misses a recording. I can't say that about the SA 8300.

I've never missed a recording on the 8300HD(unless I forget to set it:p)

Anybody see the news about NBC turning on the broadcast flag? I certainly hope this goes away quickly - don't want the other networks to adopt this policy...

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/05/15/0312256.shtml

Anybody see the news about NBC turning on the broadcast flag? I certainly hope this goes away quickly - don't want the other networks to adopt this policy...

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/05/15/0312256.shtml

I don't think they can legally do that.

I don't think they can legally do that.

You don't think NBC can legally protect their content? You're joking, right?

Inundated,

North Ridgeville was former Comcast.

Bsn Music

North Ridgeville was former Comcast.


Oh. Then picking "Time Warner City of Cleveland" on TiVo's Guided Setup would probably not be a good idea, as it spits out the Cleveland lineup for the former Adelphia areas (including the analogs, which are different).

The lineup you probably want is showing up on Zap2It.com as "Time Warner Cable-Elyria/Mentor-Digital Rebuild" when you put in the NR Zip Code (44039). I don't know how it shows up with TiVo's Guided Setup.

Inundated,

I finally got it to change to the new lineup. The problem was my fault. When I started the rescan they gave me a choice of 2 PBS channels and wanted to know which one was in my old lineup. I must of had a senior moment, and picked the wrong one. Oh well,
all is good now. Thanks.

Ben Music

Inundated,

I finally got it to change to the new lineup. The problem was my fault. When I started the rescan they gave me a choice of 2 PBS channels and wanted to know which one was in my old lineup. I must of had a senior moment, and picked the wrong one. Oh well,
all is good now. Thanks.

Ben Music

I'm glad you got it figured out Ben. I don't know if you read some of my earlier threads but I may have had access to the new line up even earlier if I actually listened to the TiVo rep that called me.

Sometimes they are right.:)

Hey everybody, I'm new here...I just had a couple of questions if anybody wants to answer, thanks!

I am using Elgato EyeTVPlus 250 into my 30" Apple Cinema HD Display. I built a bowtie style antenna out of coat hangers, washers, a board and a balun from Radio Shack, following a video on youtube...(don't have the link handy but it's pretty easy to google if you want to try building it.)

I am located in Hudson. Indoors (in my computer room) just leaning it against the wall I got every local Cleveland/Akron channel in HD perfectly except for NBC WKYC 3 and WOIO CBS 19. Well, I got a motorolla signal booster, which did nothing.

Then, I went in my attic and found (we just bought this house a few months ago) a large antenna already mounted. I attached the balun and used the signal booster and ran a long cable and only got 2 HD channels.

Finally, I put my home built antenna in the attic, with the signal booster and a long cable and now I am receiving WOIO CBS 19 in Cleveland AND Fox and CBS in Youngstown but still, no WKYC. (or no NBC from Youngstown, or anywhere).

Here is my question, thank you for reading this far...

I know that WKYC is VHF. Is there anything I can do to get it with the antenna I have built? Do I need to buy a special VHF antenna and a combiner and put them both into my eyetv?

Basically I am just confused about VHF vs UHF and what exactly my antenna will get. Everytime I read up on it on the web it is confusing.

Thanks!

-Chess

Here's the link to the antenna that works so well:

http ://www .youtube .com /watch? v= EWQhlmJTMzw

To further clear up why I am confused: I looked at antennaweb.com and according to them, WOIO 19-1 is a yellow VHF with a compass heading of 318 degrees and 16 miles away. And the NBC is also yellow VHF, compass heading of 319, and 16 miles away. That seems pretty close but I don't get NBC.

The only difference is that is says CBS frequency is 10 and NBC frequency is 2. I don't know what this means but this must be the problem?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I wouldn't worry too much about WKYC right now. Next year WKYC is moving to channel 17(after 2/17/09). And WOIO is supposed to be staying on channel 10. WOIO is at a disadvantage now b/c a Canadian station is also on channel 10, making them have to broadcast at a lower power.

WKYC really got the short stick in the digital channel postions. Not only are they VHF, but they were on channel 2. That's just cruel!

WEWS is 15, WJW is 31, WBNS is 30 and WKYC is moving to 17. OTA should get better once WKYC moves.

You cna try playing around with that antenna. Could be kinda fun to see what is out there plus you may get it.