I use wireless back speakers and I have a little device that broadcast the signals to these speakers. When the signal is good the light flashes on the broadcaster. CBS overloads it, I have to turn it down, FOX is good ABC not bad and NBC sometimes goood sometimes not good (Law & Order - though better this season - any of them).

Now the CW is in HD and Dolby 5.1 on TW and I can't get a peep out of those back speakers. You would think with shows like Supernatural, Smallville, and Reaper you would expect some cool sounds. But I actually do better with Dolby PL II then with Dolby 5.1. And I can't use Dolby PL II if it's being broadcast in HD with Dolby 5.1.

Anybody else notice this? Kind of disappointing. I cranked it up a ful 10 db's and I couldn't hear crap.

Do you think that it is possible that the primary "drop" from the street could be RG59? IF that were the case, would I be getting any HD signals at all?... or would they be spuratic and weak? I think I will just finally call TW tomorrow. Of course I already know what the dumb CSR is going to say. "Sir, you are only subscribed to Lifeline Basic. You are not entitles to HD channels. You will need to upgrade your service to digtal and will need to use our STB.":rolleyes: That is when I will have to email a letter to Steve Fry Sr.

If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6. You still could have rolloff on the high frequencies for other reasons though, including water ingress, corroded connections, etc. Corrosion frequenty reveals itself as ingress (ghosting) on the local analog broadcast channels only.

Since it was asked upthread - still on SARA on both my SA boxes, SD in here, and 8000HD in the loft. My boxes are so old, they may not bother or be able to convert them to Navigator!

If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6. You still could have rolloff on the high frequencies for other reasons though, including water ingress, corroded connections, etc. Corrosion frequenty reveals itself as ingress (ghosting) on the local analog broadcast channels only.

Thanks CK. Ya, a while ago I was thinking water in the line too, because it seemed to get worse after a good rain. I guess I will just have to call TW. Not looking forward to it.

If that drop cable was installed anytime in the past thirty years, it's most definitely not RG-59. All of the MSOs have been using RG-6.They're using RG11 here. It's substantially heavier than RG6.

Unless there is something seriously wrong with the encoder, there should be no audio compression in an MP3 conversion. There are some MP3 tags that include gain management, but this won't affect dynamic range ratios, only overall average level. Audio compression (not to be confused with data compression) is not a part of the MP3 process.

There may be some encoders that offer dynamic range compression as an option when encoding MP3s, but that's an separate process from the encoding itself. Personally, I'd recommend staying away from it - most modern recordings are way too squashed in the first place! <g>

Jim, thanks for your remarks. I agree that there's no deliberate compressor/expander scheme built into the standard. However I suspect that the apparent compression that I hear is possibly the result of rounding errors in the scaling process as the encoder constantly tweaks the processing as it rides the signal to noise ratio up and down during quantizing. Add that to the "crowded" sound that results from lopping off the more percussive energies at 15khz and above and the result can start to sound like AM radio from the immediately post Orban-Parasound-Optimod-8000 compressor days.

Not that I'm dating myself or anything like that. ;)

They're using RG11 here. It's substantially heavier than RG6.

You must have a long drop. RG-11 has considerably lower loss than RG-6, but it's so thick that it's only used where necessary.

Do you think that it is possible that the primary "drop" from the street could be RG59? IF that were the case, would I be getting any HD signals at all?... or would they be spuratic and weak? I think I will just finally call TW tomorrow. Of course I already know what the dumb CSR is going to say. "Sir, you are only subscribed to Lifeline Basic. You are not entitles to HD channels. You will need to upgrade your service to digtal and will need to use our STB.":rolleyes: That is when I will have to email a letter to Steve Fry Sr.

As the others have pointed out RG6 is the most prevalent cable co. supplied coax. I assumed you were talking about video distribution inside your house, not the cable coming from the street.

RG6 and RG59 are pretty generic terms as each "type" will also have varying degrees of sheilding, core cable thickness, core cable materials (how much copper), etc..

I think RG6 is recommended (if not necessary) for high speed internet & voip services, where as RG59 is more for video distribution. I use a Beldon RG59 Duobond (dual sheild) for all coax connections inside the house from the OTA antenna and from the cable junction box on the side of my house. The cable from the street to my junction box is quite thick, I'm guessing it's the RG11 that Jim mentioned.

Bottom line, it sounds like you have issues from the street and this should be fixed by the cable co. No matter what level of service you are paying for you should not require boosters/amplifiers for cable viewing. In fact, you may just be boosting/amplifying a poor signal. :eek:

Since it was asked upthread - still on SARA on both my SA boxes, SD in here, and 8000HD in the loft. My boxes are so old, they may not bother or be able to convert them to Navigator!

Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.;)

I wouldn't have a clue as to using navigator software on any set top box but perhaps someone out there who has one does. But it would seem odd that you would have two types of guides for one system.

My question really came from a discussion over on the SA 8300 SARA thread. I was just wondering if anyone had been converted over here.

Over the last 3 days, I've been having intermittent trouble with my HD channels through Armstrong in Medina. The picture is freezing up and the sound drops out. It's with both the STB and the QAM. SD channels are fine. It's bad for about 30 minutes then will be fine for hours. Anyone else having this problem?

Over the last 3 days, I've been having intermittent trouble with my HD channels through Armstrong in Medina. The picture is freezing up and the sound drops out. It's with both the STB and the QAM. SD channels are fine. It's bad for about 30 minutes then will be fine for hours. Anyone else having this problem?

I have seen this (on Time Warner) on a couple of channels (fox 8 HD and Food HD). Previous posts mentioned problems on fox 8

My question really came from a discussion over on the SA 8300 SARA thread. I was just wondering if anyone had been converted over here.

Hook, I live in Aurora, and I have an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have not been converted to Navigator as of 0800 hrs. this morning.

Are they planning to convert the SARA people???

I have seen this (on Time Warner) on a couple of channels (fox 8 HD and Food HD). Previous posts mentioned problems on fox 8

My problem is definitely with all HD, not just one or two channels. Might be time for that service call.

Hook, I live in Aurora, and I have an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have not been converted to Navigator as of 0800 hrs. this morning.

Are they planning to convert the SARA people???

From what I hear on SA 8300 SARA thread there has been only one report of a change from SARA to Navigator and my understanding is the information from that person was probable erroneous.

Nobody really knows why, all you can do is speculate. My guess would be that such a change would cause a major corruption and either render the machine useless (probably) or wipe out all your recordings.

Since TW is more concerned with their equipment then you and your recordings I think my first guess is most likely.

Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.;)

You know me...inertia. I just never changed out the box I got with Adelphia a few years ago. :D

I don't really care about the SD box. It's the one attached to my TiVo S2, and the TiVo interface means I barely see the SARA interface - only when I change channels or the box changes channels, then I briefly see the SARA yellow channel banner at the bottom.

Your SD box probably won't be converted. And your SA 8000, well, you are probably the only person in all of TWNEO to still have one.;)

.

It WILL be converted eventually. They have converted ALL of our boxes including the ancient Pioneer SD boxes. If you have one of these boxes beware. The UI is slow and freezes up. Also, the guide font looks like an old Atari game from the 80s. The program guide and channel banner constantly says Loading and the guide literaly blacks out. With the one I have, VOD doesn't work and you cannot search for programs with the new search menu. It's going back as soon as I have time.

It WILL be converted eventually. They have converted ALL of our boxes including the ancient Pioneer SD boxes. If you have one of these boxes beware. The UI is slow and freezes up. Also, the guide font looks like an old Atari game from the 80s. The program guide and channel banner constantly says Loading and the guide literaly blacks out. With the one I have, VOD doesn't work and you cannot search for programs with the new search menu. It's going back as soon as I have time.

YOU WILL ASSIMILATE, said the borg.:rolleyes:

Nickdawg, did you see the post I wrote about how over in the SA 8300 SARA THREAD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14051881#post14051881) that there has not been one reliable post that anyone anywhere has had SARA converted to Navigator? After you read my link read the next post as well.

I just drove past the FOX 8 transmitter, there were 2 Illuminating Co. trucks (big trucks) and the station engineer's car parked in front. Perhaps the pixelation and audio dropout problems were caused by a power service problem.

My problem is definitely with all HD, not just one or two channels. Might be time for that service call.

I haven't had any issues with the HD channels on Armstrong at all. I'd say it's definitely time for a service call.

As an aside, I had another incredibly positive experience with Armstrong this weekend. I've got phone and internet service through them as well as the TV side, and my cable modem had been dropping its connection for the past month or so. At first, I could just unplug the box for a couple of seconds, and the connection would reestablish. It only happened about every 4 or 5 days, so while it was annoying, it wasn't a huge issue.

But starting on Saturday, nothing I did would get the modem to connect so I was without home phone service. I called Armstrong about 5:00 pm Saturday on their regular service line. By 7:00 "Andy" was at my place to check everything out. It turned out that the cable running from the wall to my modem was an RG-59 cable, and it was causing up to 10db of signal loss. Keep in mind that the run was only about 5 feet.

Andy not only replaced that cable, but he checked all other connections within the house, at the side of the house, and at the street. He replaced one splitter (which was only about 2 months old from when the basement was finished) with a more efficient one. He even went around to different outlets within the house to make sure that the signal was consistent everywhere.

At one point he noticed that the DVR remote I had was worn and all the printed numbers were missing. He asked if I wanted a new one, and he even programmed the remote with the existing codes for the other equipment.

He even left me with a 15 cable for an antenna run that I was trying to complete!

This was after a 13 hour day for him, and I was his last call for the evening (his supervisor called while he was there and thanked him for his hard work that day).

So many times we complain about the poor service we receive, but we don't take enough time to publicly recognize those who go above and beyond. Andy certainly did on Saturday. But, really, his service was indicative of the level of commitment I've seen from Armstrong every time I've had to call them for something. Yes, I'm turning into a fanboy. But it's hard not to when it comes to them.

By the way, Andy pointed out that they are on call 24 hours a day because of the phone service. I hadn't really thought of it, but given that the TV, internet, and phone all come through the same wire, theoretically at least I could get Armstrong out to restore the informercials at 2:00 am on a Sunday morning as long as the phone went out at the same time! :p

I just drove past the FOX 8 transmitter, there were 2 Illuminating Co. trucks (big trucks) and the station engineer's car parked in front. Perhaps the pixelation and audio dropout problems were caused by a power service problem.

They are having transmitter issues and my understanding is that they're on their backup transmitter while the problem is beiing worked on. It's entirely possible that they were experiencing power sags due to a lot of air conditioners running. Perhaps the power company is beefing up their electrical service to compensate for I/R drop.

...It turned out that the cable running from the wall to my modem was an RG-59 cable, and it was causing up to 10db of signal loss. Keep in mind that the run was only about 5 feet.

'Nuff said about using RG-59 for broadband RF!

This reminds me of a really funny news release I saw many years ago regarding twisted pair copper and a group of scientists who were trying to push it to run at something like 10gb. The essence of the news release was:

The good news: It works!!

The bad news: We can only get it to travel for two inches. :rolleyes:

Since you guys were discussing this great new Tru2Way technology, thought you'd get a chuckle out of this news posted today:

Initial Tru2Way Tests a 'Disaster'
Looks like the cable box will be sticking around for now...
04:02PM Tuesday Jun 10 2008 by Karl
tags: business · hardware · cable
Back in January, the cable industry announced Tru2way, a re-imagining of OCAP technology that's intended to integrate set-top box functionality into TVs and other devices. Users would be able to use these devices with any cable operator. Last month a huge deal was made about Sony joining the consortium and killing off the cable box. Not so fast. IP Democracy quotes someone close to the project calls initial tests a "disaster of spectacular proportions," all but destroying rumors of a Comcast Denver and Chicagolaunch in August.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Initial-Tru2Way-Tests-a-Disaster-95169

Since you guys were discussing this great new Tru2Way technology, thought you'd get a chuckle out of this news posted today:

Initial Tru2Way Tests a 'Disaster'
Looks like the cable box will be sticking around for now...
04:02PM Tuesday Jun 10 2008 by Karl
tags: business · hardware · cable
Back in January, the cable industry announced Tru2way, a re-imagining of OCAP technology that's intended to integrate set-top box functionality into TVs and other devices. Users would be able to use these devices with any cable operator. Last month a huge deal was made about Sony joining the consortium and killing off the cable box. Not so fast. IP Democracy quotes someone close to the project calls initial tests a "disaster of spectacular proportions," all but destroying rumors of a Comcast Denver and Chicagolaunch in August.

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Initial-Tru2Way-Tests-a-Disaster-95169

I have no idea of who IP Democracy is. Is this creditable?

theoretically at least I could get Armstrong out to restore the informercials at 2:00 am on a Sunday morning as long as the phone went out at the same time! :p

Ahh, but wait... If your phone was out, you couldn't call them to report a problem! (For the sake of argument, forget about cell phones.) :)

I always love it when I call TWC to report problems with my TV or RR, yet they insist on trying to sell me their phone service. I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...

I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...

One word: VONAGE

Ahh, but wait... If your phone was out, you couldn't call them to report a problem! (For the sake of argument, forget about cell phones.) :)

I always love it when I call TWC to report problems with my TV or RR, yet they insist on trying to sell me their phone service. I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...

VOIP isn't without it's issues but I've been very pleased with WOW's VOIP service for over two years. A couple of minor issues in the beginning but resolved. In my experience having the home phone provider out to my home about once every two years seems to be my norm (Ohio Bell, Ameritech, WOW) so the reliability of WOW service has at least been no worse than the old landline system.

With two home phone lines WOW VOIP has saved me well over $400 a year x two years compared to land lines. :)

Now, if they can just get the $20 per year MagicJack VOIP type service more stable (quality of service and financially) we all could save a FORTUNE in home phone service! :D

I'll jump on that bandwagon some day, just not any time soon...

One word: VONAGE

NO!! One word: LANDLINE

I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.

I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.

Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.

NO!! One word: LANDLINE

I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.

I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.

I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.

Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.

I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!

I still have my landline because of DSL. I know there's supposed to be a way to get DSL without landline service, but I haven't taken the time to figure it out. Since I have D*, it's my only option for broadband.




I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.

I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.

I'm thrilled with Vonage...it works great, and even during the last power outage I had, my own UPS kept the Vonage adapter (and cable modem and router) going for a good hour or two.

I had kept a landline for 911 purposes, but decided it was overkill. I can't see a situation where I couldn't get out an emergency call either on the Vonage phone or my cell phone with little difficulty.

The modem I have from Armstrong has a battery in it. I also added a battery backup (an actual 9-volt kind) for my cordless home phone. I luckily live in an area that has lost power once in the last 6 years -- not durng the massive blackout a couple of years ago, mind you. But the chances of losing the cable phone service and power at the same time are pretty slim.

I agree with the safety concern, but for me the relatively low loss of potential safety was completely outweighed by the $55+ per month I saved by switching.

If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.

I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!

I remember that micro-burst. I was living there also and I was also without power for 4 days. I remember walking around the streets the next day, assessing the wind damage, and I found an electrical insulator on the ground that had been ripped off a telephone pole. I still have that insulator as a reminder.

NO!! One word: LANDLINE

I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.

Enhanced 911 is available from both Vonage and Time Warner. That 911 thing is just a scare tatic to keep you from dropping landline.

I have a natural gas generator so it's no problem for me when the power goes out. For those who don't, Vonage will forward to your cell phone.

Believe it or not at one time there was no 911! We dialed the O for operator in an emergency.

I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.

Here we agree but for different reasons. Time Warner has "introductory rates" which will go up after a certain amount of time. They also charge for voice mail. Vonage doesn't. And I pay $19.95 for 500 outgoing calls a month. I've never even come close to that. Incoming calls are free. And also there is no charge for calling toll free 800 type numbers. Vonage also sends you an email when you have voice mail.

Who doesn't have a cell phone to use when the power is out? I thought everyone had a cell phone.

Hehe... My business partner, who is a serious geek running a technology company, refuses to get a cell phone. "I just don't want to be that reachable."

Go figure... :)

I like to point out that technically none of us have cell phones. What we have now are wireless phones using digital technology. But "cell" has become the terminology just like for many a DVR is a "TiVo", or the use of the expression " I Tivo'd that last night."

NO!! One word: LANDLINE

I will NEVER go with ANY internet/IP phone service. The price may sound good on paper, but it's not so fun when the power is out or the internet is down and you have no phone. Or you need to call 911 and that's not working right.

I would never trust a service as important as the phone to a pathetic company like Time Warner. And I find it even more insulting that they have the nerve to try to sell their service while I'm on hold b/c another one of their services doesn't work.

Although WOW VOIP has the 911 service (something I could care less about, I wasn't even aware I had it till this topic came up) there are several alternatives to getting emergency help:
- cell phone
- neighbors
- security system with one button emergency dial
- for the truly paranoid....the "I've fallen and I can't get up" product :eek:

The monthly savings of VOIP could easily pay for the above services with $$$ to spare. ;)

Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern. :)

Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern. :)


Truthfully when it comes to internet I find Time Warner reliability is pretty good - however I do think that I liked Adelphia better. RoadRunner doesn't seem as "high speed" as they claim, even using their own test site which is all the way down in Cincinnatti.

Although WOW VOIP has the 911 service (something I could care less about, I wasn't even aware I had it till this topic came up) there are several alternatives to getting emergency help:
- cell phone
- neighbors
- security system with one button emergency dial
- for the truly paranoid....the "I've fallen and I can't get up" product :eek:

The monthly savings of VOIP could easily pay for the above services with $$$ to spare. ;)

Now the reliability of TWC is another issue altogether and understandably a legitimate concern. :)

Agreed. We have Vonage in our house and the savings are well worth it. We have gradually used the "landline" less and less over the years. I got tired of paying $50+ for the landline. Now I pay $25 (about $30 with taxes) a month on the home phone service, and I can call more places for free. The only reason we keep is is because there are some people who still call us on it. Otherwise it is cell phones. But to be on the safe side, I have all of the network equip. in the house hooked up to a UPS, so at least we will have a window of talk time on everything before the power completely goes out.

Agreed. We have Vonage in our house and the savings are well worth it. We have gradually used the "landline" less and less over the years. I got tired of paying $50+ for the landline. Now I pay $25 (about $30 with taxes) a month on the home phone service, and I can call more places for free. The only reason we keep is is because there are some people who still call us on it. Otherwise it is cell phones. But to be on the safe side, I have all of the network equip. in the house hooked up to a UPS, so at least we will have a window of talk time on everything before the power completely goes out.

Yeah, WOW VOIP (cable modem with phone inputs) has a built in battery.
I have no clue how long that battery would function in a power outage situation.

As far as cell phones and power outages go - I still had cell service during that big summer outage a few years ago.

Of course, it was difficult to reach my father, who has another carrier...

If it's a massive power outage that may affect the cell phone towers as well.

I lived through 4 days of no power in the early 90's after a micro-burst hit Euclid. The landline never lost it's dial tone the entire time!

Did your phone's central office lose power?

During the blackout in 2003 (which occured just after 4, IIRC), my (whatever name Ohio Bell used in 2003) phone service died by 8 pm. Chances are, my line was not powered from the central office, but at a remote terminal with inadequate backup power. I also think my neighborhood is serviced using a digital loop - it was built out in the mid-90s. Cable voice service just adds another point where backup power is needed (at your home.)

Alltel, Verizon, and T-Mobile cellular service seemed to work throughout the night, but T-Mobile GPRS (internet) stopped working sometime after 6. I'm not sure how other providers fared. I believe that cell site locations can make a difference with reliability - sites with more space can have more backup power than others.

Keep in mind that if you lose power at your home, your cellphone could even be in range of towers that still have power. (Third-party VoIP services can also be used on any broadband connection, too.)

I like to point out that technically none of us have cell phones. What we have now are wireless phones using digital technology. But "cell" has become the terminology just like for many a DVR is a "TiVo", or the use of the expression " I Tivo'd that last night."

The cell part of "cellular phone" came from the concept of a cellular network - where the network is divided into cells that each have their own transmitter. This is still the network structure used on modern mobile phone systems. The "cellular band" in the US refers to a specific set of frequencies originally allocated to two companies per market for analog cellular phone service - in this market, they are allocated to Alltel and Verizon. This is still in use as well, although it is primarily (if not all) digital by now.

Two more channels added to Time Warner:
*PBS World(WVIZ-DT subchannel) at channel 364
*MTV Jams at channel 259.

__________________
6-3-08---The day I officially stopped watching TBS. They went too far w/ Bill Engvall "pausing" Family Guy to advertise his show. TBS thinking they are a network, now THAT'S Very Funny!

nickdawgs sig.:)

Back in the old days when Atlanta couldn't win a baseball game to save their lives and TBS was still air broadcasting and on cable as WTBS, I remember an article in the Los Angeles Hearld-Examiner that said "TBS must stand for Terrible Baseball Station." Then the Hearld went out of business. The Dodgers won their last World Series in 1988 and the Braves dominated the National League in the 90's.

Well, it was funny at the time. It's like they say "you had to be there."

Now it stands for "The Bulls*** Station" or "The Bug Station". Their on air practices are terrible. The thing that did them in is pausing another, good show to advertise that abortion known as "The Bill Engvall Show". Very(not)Funny!

Two more channels added to Time Warner:
*PBS World(WVIZ-DT subchannel) at channel 364
*MTV Jams at channel 259.

Confirming this on the former Adelphia system out of Cleveland...we got both here, too.

The WVIZ DT subchannel has been up for maybe a week and it still says no guide data. Another channel added on 218 awhile back called Village TV also doesn't have any guide data. MTV Jams just says "MTV Jams".

Get with it Time Warner!!

MTV JAMS has got to be the worst of all the music statons there could be. I'd like to take that station and jam it up MTV where the sun doesn't shine.

But hey, what do I know. I'm just an old guy who thinks Eric Clapton is still a great guitar player, thinks that Aretha Franklin is the Queen of Soul, not Bleach blonde Beyond me....I mean Beyonce or whatever her name is. I have to listen to XM to hear any good new music.

But "Time Warner - We think like you do" apparently thinks this is what I want.:confused:

Channel 19 HD Down Until 4PM today. I called the station and confirmed this. Interesting...

My signal on channel 5 has been fluctuating heavily the past few days, even weeks, possibly. From completely out, to in the 90s. I first put this in back in November of 2007 and I haven't had an issue until now. I have Dish Network with OTA antenna.

I have a Channel Master StealthAntenna 3038. Ialso have a Sony Surround Sound system with a lot of wiring behind the TV. At first, I thought the wiring was causing some interference, but after screwing around with moving wires for the past few hours, I don't think it's that.

Channel 8, Fox, is a full 100 strength, and Channels 43 and 55 are in the 90s. Channel 3 is in the 70s, like it has always been for me, but drops now every once in a while. Channel 19 is usually strong, but I confirmed they are down today until 4PM.

Any suggestions why I'm having some issues now? Thanks for the help!

My signal on channel 5 has been fluctuating heavily the past few days, even weeks, possibly. From completely out, to in the 90s. I first put this in back in November of 2007 and I haven't had an issue until now. I have Dish Network with OTA antenna.

I have a Channel Master StealthAntenna 3038. Ialso have a Sony Surround Sound system with a lot of wiring behind the TV. At first, I thought the wiring was causing some interference, but after screwing around with moving wires for the past few hours, I don't think it's that.

Channel 8, Fox, is a full 100 strength, and Channels 43 and 55 are in the 90s. Channel 3 is in the 70s, like it has always been for me, but drops now every once in a while. Channel 19 is usually strong, but I confirmed they are down today until 4PM.

Any suggestions why I'm having some issues now? Thanks for the help!
FWIW, Channel 5 does that to me occasionally as well. I know it has to be something tangible, but just haven't been able to figure it out. Not sure if it's multipath issues, signal fluctuations due to the weather, or something else. Whatever it is, when it happens, the condition seems to last for at least a week or two (or more). It's happened in both winter and the summer (which I think would rule out foliage alone as the culprit). To resolve, I just have to reorient the antenna and 5 comes in fine. The problem is that the reception on the other channels is then compromised. Then one day it just seems to fix itself.

:confused:Channel 5 is completely down now. There wasn't any audio during Jeopardy! and then they had a graphic up stating they have audio difficulties. Then it blacked out and now we have crappy, fuzzy sound with a green screen. Something is really effed up. A weather cut in just came on and they can't even show that. They are just pathetic.

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO THEM TO THROW BACK TO THE SD FEED???

EDIT: 8:09PM: They're back on the air, with some audio interference and with the "Power of 5 HD" weather graphics exploding out of the normal viewing area. The map is over the sidebar??:confused::confused::confused:

I've been observing these things for the past 3 years. Many of things that I thought were broadcast problems turned out to be the SA 8300, in my case and I just accepted it.

Now after having a different DVR I am able to see what you guys talk about from time to time. I'm a bit surprised at some of the emotion that gets stirred up about some of these problems, and yes, I complain as well I just recently made a comment about FOX 8 having issues.

IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.

It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.

I remember that micro-burst. I was living there also and I was also without power for 4 days. I remember walking around the streets the next day, assessing the wind damage, and I found an electrical insulator on the ground that had been ripped off a telephone pole. I still have that insulator as a reminder.
I think everybody was walking around Euclid, stunned! A huge tree in Sims Park was uprooted leaving a huge crater where it once stood.

In my driveway I found a headless fish (we lived SOUTH of Lakeshore), also there were shards of aluminum and fiberglass from the Horizion House's elevator shaft.

Ironically, some friends just over the city limits in Cleveland never lost power - they had Muny Light! CEI customers in their neighborhood lost power but they never lost it. Crews were brought in from Toledo that started messing with Muny Light's lines. They were unfamiliar dealing with parallel power company lines.

Four days without electricity is a strange feeling. It almost seemed like we were suddenly in a 3rd world country.

IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.

It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Hookbill. Considering the incredible complexity of modern broadcasting, it still amazes me at times that it works at all. This is not a slam on broadcasters at all; I'm just saying that we sometimes lose appreciation for what we really have.

This comes from a person who was waaaaaay impressed the very first time I saw a program in color. :)

Four days without electricity is a strange feeling. It almost seemed like we were suddenly in a 3rd world country.

Yes, I remember having that feeling. It certainly made me appreciate the power once it came back on!

Yes, I remember having that feeling. It certainly made me appreciate the power once it came back on!

That happened to us 3 years ago right after we moved into the area. My wife was crying on the fourth day. Then it happened again during the early Spring with wet snow.

That's when we decided to buy a natural gas powered generator. Of course since we bought the generator the longest power outage has been about 8 hours. Still, nice to have one. AC and heat works and most importantly my TiVo S3 continues to record programs. And my whole entertainment system works as well as my computer without interuption because it's hooked up to a UPS. It takes a few minutes before the generator turns on.

The room where the TiVo HD however does not get power and is hooked up to a UPS so when power goes in that room I usually end up hooking it up to an extension cord to the hall way and turning it off. Otherwise it makes this disturbing clicking noise and beeps constantly until the battery dies.

Edited to add: On that occasion where the heavy wet snow caused the power to go out for four days on the fourth day I went to the Bertram Hotel which is about a mile away on Aurora Rd. in Aurora. I told them the situation and they gave us a room for only $75.00. The room they gave us was actually a huge meeting room.

I took a shower and went home and wouldn't you know it, the power was back on! I went back to the Bertram and said I wanted to pay for the room. The girl at the front desk said "but you didn't spend the night." I said I know but I did take a shower so I did use the room. She said, "that's OK. I'm not going to charge you anything."

So if you ever have someone looking for a really nice hotel in the Eastern part of our area, please recommend the Bertram. I have stayed there before and it's a nice hotel. And what can you say about a business that takes the concerns of the community and acts so kindly. If only all businesses acted like that.......

And one more thing. Check out the bar and their "martini club." They have something like one hundred different martinis! ;)

I just found out that the Tribe is going out to play against the Dodgers next week, 3 game series! This is a real treat for me as I never get to see the Dodgers anymore and it will be in HD.

Dodgers are 31 wins 37 losses. Tribe is 32 wins 36 losses.

Two not so great teams perhaps this year but hey lets have some fun and let the trash talk begin. I'll enjoy watching my Dodgers kick the Tribes butt in HD. Matter of fact, since it's at beautiful Dodger Stadium I'll even predict a sweep.

For what it's worth, Progressive Field is a better ball park but only slightly. But the Dodgers kick but on hot dogs with their Dodger Dogs.:D

IMHO what we do get now is so very far superior to what we use to get we've all gotten a bit too fussy. Yes, there are going to be problems from time to time but at least it's not a screen full of snow. It's just that, well, s**t happens.

It's not perfect but hey it's way better then what we had before.
Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?

Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?

Yep. And the color tv thing too.

I never owned a color TV until I was 32. My parents always had black and white.

Then we had this remote that would change channels and turn on and off by sound. You could also do it with jingling your keys.:D

OK I know this is not sports talk, we talk local HD broadcasting here. I happened to notice in last nights local HD broadcast of Cleveland vs San Diego the Tribe once again blew it in the 10th inning. Grand Slam. By a former Indian!

Now as far as I can tell the pq was great. I could clearly see that ball fly over the wall at the Jake, and I don't like calling it Progressive Field.

Come on Tribe fans. It's Fathers Day! A great day to put those giant things that you guys seem to like so much that look like hot dogs on the grill (brots?) turn on that HD television STAY HOME or go to the ball park if you want to go some where. Get behind the Tribe.

San Diego is a very nice town but unfortunately the Padres are very evil. Look what they did to the Tribe last night! OK, we all know there is like 2 good pitchers on the team and no closers with a damn but still if we put our minds together we can prevent something like this from happening again today.

Now I can understand perhaps why you did not rally behind my request to watch in HD (staying on topic) the Lakers and Celtics. Who the heck can stay up two teams you really don't care about. And from what I understand WEWS has had broadcast problems, and I know you wanted in your heart to support me because I know you hate the Celtics. Lakers blew a 24 point lead. They will probably not win. I just want you to know I don't blame you guys for that.:(

And how can you guys allow me to post my earlier post saying that the Dodgers will sweep Cleveland, in HD, without a single response? No wonder this town can't win a championship! At least they can't win one in HD.;)

Dad's this is YOUR day and you should spend it in front of your High Definition Television Set with your kids running around playing outside and your wife serving you snacks while we all root for the Tribe to beat the Padres. Yes, I know it's American League Baseball and it's kind of boring but hey, you gotta put your support behind your home team.

Then we can discuss the pq, the sound, and all that other stuff after the game as well. Stay right on topic, you see?

Go Tribe, today in HD on STO!

Cool. I was hoping it wasn't just me with the Channel 5 problems. :)

Remember back 30 years ago when the screen would totally go blank or they'd put up the "Technical Difficulties Please Stand By" for 30 min to an hour at a time?

I remember seeing this one (http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/testcard/around_world/cbs_1.jpg). :cool: Those old TK-41s (http://www.ev1.pair.com/colorTV/TVcams-in-action.html) were beasts. Hundreds of pounds of tubes and other components.

Cool. I was hoping it wasn't just me with the Channel 5 problems. :)

I got a BIG Channel 5 porblem. Those bass turds moved last night's movie Monsters Inc.(in HD) to this afternoon in favor of showing local crap programming to see more commercials. Thanks, I just now found out that it was moved and missed more than half!! Class act, 5!! With the prgramming changes and technical problems and that pathetic Power of 5 Terrorist weatherman, I'll bet Miss Fuldheim is turning in her grave!!

I got a BIG Channel 5 porblem. Those bass turds moved last night's movie Monsters Inc.(in HD) to this afternoon in favor of showing local crap programming to see more commercials. Thanks, I just now found out that it was moved and missed more than half!! Class act, 5!! With the prgramming changes and technical problems and that pathetic Power of 5 Terrorist weatherman, I'll bet Miss Fuldheim is turning in her grave!!

You see last night they were showing this thing called the NBA FINALS. It started at 9:00 pm.

Now that MIGHT have been the reason they moved your show.

And now we have the Terrorist weatherman. Nickdawg, you just keep them coming. You, my friend (well most of the time) are a trip!

Sorry, Hook. There was no NBA game last night. They play tonight.

You see last night they were showing this thing called the NBA FINALS. It started at 9:00 pm.
Now that MIGHT have been the reason they moved your show.

And now we have the Terrorist weatherman. Nickdawg, you just keep them coming. You, my friend (well most of the time) are a trip!

Last night was Saturday. NBA finals continue TONIGHT. The movie Monsters Inc. was the ABC/Disney movie of the week. WEWS dumped it to show Cash Explosion, Academic Challenge, Camp Adventures and ReGenesis.

And yes, Mr Johnson is the terrorist weather man. "The sky is falling, the world is gonna end!! All because there is a cloud over Seneca county!!!"

Last night was Saturday. NBA finals continue TONIGHT. The movie Monsters Inc. was the ABC/Disney movie of the week. WEWS dumped it to show Cash Explosion, Academic Challenge, Camp Adventures and ReGenesis.

And anyone who watches television would have seen this in their guide a week or more ahead of time. There was no reason not to know that Monsters Inc would be shown on Sunday afternoon -- and in HD.

And yes, Mr Johnson is the terrorist weather man. "The sky is falling, the world is gonna end!! All because there is a cloud over Seneca county!!!"

A couple of summers ago I remember watching him while a large thunderstorm was approaching. He was almost jumping out of his skin, barking about the fact that their doppler was showing the most intense area of rain as purple. "Look people, we've got purple rain!" Sheesh.

I used to like 5's weather coverage. They always went wall to wall whenever a serious storm was approaching, so I could count on them to capture every detail and show it to us. Somewhere along the line though, they seem to have confused thoroughness with the need to be alarmist.

Personally I'd rather be prepared, not scared, y'know?

Did anybody get a "Civil Alert Message" on your TW box at around 9:45 tonight?

NBA Finals game Sunday night on WEWS - anyone else noticing horrible audio ? I can really hear it on the commercials. Sounds like a transistor radio cranked way up.

Of course now that I type this the problem seems to have gone away. :rolleyes:

Edit: Nope, audio problem is still there. I think it was the locally inserted commercials that sounded ok, but the national feed is still screwed up.

NBA Finals game Sunday night on WEWS - anyone else noticing horrible audio ? I can really hear it on the commercials. Sounds like a transistor radio cranked way up.

Of course now that I type this the problem seems to have gone away. :rolleyes:

Edit: Nope, audio problem is still there. I think it was the locally inserted commercials that sounded ok, but the national feed is still screwed up.

This has been going on since at least Friday. Noticed it during network programming like 20/20 and AFV on Friday. Sounds like we're listening to TV through a CB radio. I noticed it again tonight during the immy Kimmel pre game show. I have noticed local SD commercials are fine. I'm surprised they don't throw back to SD. It was awful.

I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.
Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.



Also HOOKBILL, I believe no one has replied to your "baseball challenge" because they know how full of crap you are. The Indians record does not reflect their talent. I have no doubt that they will walk all over your precious Dodgers. There's a reason why they call 'em the Dodgers... because they like to dodge talent. :D

I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.
Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.

They have a history of being pricks. Not the first good ABC movie that has been pulled only to be replaced with garbage. It was advertised on TV as well as the ABC website Saturday at 8pm. Who the hell looks for the ABC Saturday movie on a Sunday afternoon? Who the hell puts the ABC Saturday movie on a Sunday afternoon?

You were probably better off watching it on DVD. By the time I tuned in around 5pm, the movie was gone and there was John Goodman talking about Disney Parks and other Pixar shorts and commercials. 480i would be acceptable if it were commercial free and bug free. Plus we had the power of 5 crap at the top of the screen.

I agree 100% Mr. Pants. Why should we have to double check the TV listings for network programming advertised at a set time by the network? I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.

While we are bashing local television broadcasting...:D
When the heck did Saturday and Sunday daytime tv become a wasteland of CRAP?:mad:
Other than the sports airings, there is absolutly nothing on! Infomercials and JUNK! No longer can I turn on Saturday moring cartoons for my boys. I have to resort to either watching something on dvd that they've already watched many times before, OR, pay $60 a month for expanded basic cable (<-a rip-off IMO).The only cartoons or childrens programing on to watch on Saturday or Sunday, is I think some junk on the WB... and those are the mindless fighting/shooting crap that should never be allowed on public television. If I let my kids watch that, they'll be in prison by age 12. :D

Wow, no cable. That must suck.

And all the shows they do have are on EARLY in the morning(like 6 or 7AM). Hannah Montana is at 7 AM!!! Then the afternoon is full of paid programming(especially if you are WUAB).

I remember not too long ago there was something on to watch. There were afternoon movies or more syndicated shows like sitcom or drama reruns. Now many stations run paid programs until the 6pm news.

And don't get me started on TV today. The best days of cartoons/kids shows are behind us. The best shows were on in the 90s. I look at whats on today and cannot believe some of the retarded crap that is on the air today. I was up early one morning and stumbled across this HD acid trip on PBS HD-(channel 410) called "Boobah". Wow. TV was much better back in the day.
__________________
Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD
Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!
Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots
MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)

No expanded cable is no big deal to me. Usually when the tv is on, the kids are watching educational programming and such. When the kids are not around, there are other things that need done because the damn kids take up so much time and attention.:D To fill in the gaps there are a few shows that the wife and I like to watch, but that's it for tv. I've got a wall of hunrdeds of dvds for us to watch too, so the movies are more to my style and liking. I suppose I could find a few more shows to watch if I have another hundred channels to watch, but it's just not worth it to me for the price paid.
(

DVDs are better as they do not have the annoying bugs/snipes like most cable channels have plus they are uncensored and commercial free.

I could consider throwing in the towel on cable due to the price and the lack of HD content for that price. And many of the channels we do have are crap. The HD channels use stretchovision resulting in a crappy distorted picture and the other SD channels load the screen with bugs and snipes, ruining the show or movie on. And DVD PQ can be better than SD digital cable.
__________________
Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD
Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!
Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots
MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)

Also HOOKBILL, I believe no one has replied to your "baseball challenge" because they know how full of crap you are. The Indians record does not reflect their talent. I have no doubt that they will walk all over your precious Dodgers. There's a reason why they call 'em the Dodgers... because they like to dodge talent. :D

Well, what do you know we got one person in the entire area that will speak up for their team!;)

I got my dates confused on the NBA thing. But hell, that's not unusual I'm old.

Wayne Dawson is on the air right now talking about how he really doesn't care about the Finals. I don't blame him.

It will be tough if not impossible for the Lakers to win tonight. Or is it tomorrow night?

Nickdawg, try channel 3. They "inform you, not alarm you." Or is that what 5 says? Or maybe 19? I know it isn't channel 8.

As you can all tell I got my stuff together today!

Then we had this remote that would change channels and turn on and off by sound. You could also do it with jingling your keys.:D

I believe that was a Zenith. It had metal tubes in the remote that would be struck when you pushed a button (more like a plunger) and the TV would respond by turning off/on and changing channels with a motorized turret tuner. Some models added volume up/down controls too. They drove the dogs wild, as many of the tomes were above 15 kHz.!!

I too was looking forward to watching Monsters Inc in HD. I think they are pricks for pulling it. I was ready to sit down and enjoy it on Father's Day with my 1 and 3 yr old boys. I also think it is rediculous to say that we should check the schedule to make sure they didn't change it. Excuse me for expecting them to have it on after I saw 2 different commercials advertising the airing of the movie in HD... and I don't watch a lot of "television programming" so I'm sure there were a lot more than 2 plugs for it.
Fortunately I have a very nice home theater setup including the best upscaling dvd player on the market. I also have Monsters Inc on dvd so we were able to watch it anyway and it looked pretty damn good. I would have liked to have seen it in HD though.

If you were looking forward to watching "Monsters Inc" on Father's Day, that's exactly when it was on -- Father's Day at 3:00!!!
The station did not "pull" the movie. It was always scheduled to run on Sunday afternoon. However, the networks frequently change programming at the last minute which has nothing to do with the local station so anyone relying on a promo or just "expecting it" to be on must realize that this why we have all these fancy electronic program guides in the first place.

I agree 100% Mr. Pants. Why should we have to double check the TV listings for network programming advertised at a set time by the network? I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.

So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.

I think it's time to get a good antenna and try to pull in WYTV-DT(ABC from Youngstown). I never see other programming replacing ABC programming there.
Unfortunately, WYTV is the weakest signal of the 3 Youngstown stations. Unless you live in Portage County or perhaps as far as Solon, forget getting ch 33 on a regular basis.

WKBN-DT OTOH rocks! I get them 24/7 with an indoor antenna in Parma! In addition they have WYFX on their subchannel, so sometimes you can get extra NFL games from FOX (in SD, but hey it's a "poor-man's NFL ST).

I believe that was a Zenith. It had metal tubes in the remote that would be struck when you pushed a button (more like a plunger) and the TV would respond by turning off/on and changing channels with a motorized turret tuner. Some models added volume up/down controls too. They drove the dogs wild, as many of the tomes were above 15 kHz.!!
Zenith Space Command!
Yep, I had one of those as a kid too! My parakeet could change the channels by hitting his beak on his cage (no joke, this actually happened).

Zenith Space Command!
Yep, I had one of those as a kid too! My parakeet could change the channels by hitting his beak on his cage (no joke, this actually happened).

Yes, I remember it well. I would come home at night after work and find the tv on. I thought maybe I had a friendly ghost that was playing tricks on me.
One night I was reading the paper (tv off) when the phone
rang. Guess what, the tv turned itself on. I solved the problem by wrapping some black tape around the offending bell in the phone. No ghost after all.

Ben Music

Wayne Dawson is on the air right now talking about how he really doesn't care about the Finals. I don't blame him.

Nickdawg, try channel 3. They "inform you, not alarm you." Or is that what 5 says? Or maybe 19? I know it isn't channel 8.

As you can all tell I got my stuff together today!

Channel 3 is the "Prepare not scare" station. I like watching Betsy Kling:D:D:D

As for the finals, I was hoping that would be over last night. I want my Boston Legal back on Tuesday!! I could give a rat's@$$ about who wins. That's all I have to say about that!!

And no comment on my new signature???:confused::confused:
__________________
Proud Owner of the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD
Tivo S3HD? Purchasing equipment plus additional service fees and hardware? Don't make me laugh!!
Proud Flock Leader of 50 Parrots
MY NAME IS NOT NICK (but you can call me dawg)

Man you guys never let up off of each other do you? :D

So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.

That's what happens when you live in a small city. In a big city like L.A. that never happens because all stations are networked owned. Sports teams play on local stations. And of course there are no football teams in L.A.:rolleyes:

So I guess all of those primetime preemptions of NBC programming by WKYC by Indians games is OK even though they wouldn't be listed on the NBC website. Or how about the Browns games that WJW will be showing in place of FOX primetime programming this fall? That won't be on the network website either. It amazes me how people plan their TV viewing based on assumption.

At least WKYC is interrupting repeats or expendable reality programming and putting something of worth in its place. In a sports town like Cleveland few, if any, people would object to a show like "America's Got Talent" being bumped in favor of the Indians. WKYC's practices are better. They rarely interrupt good programming. If they do interrupt new programming, it is promptly shown later that night and the time is advertised.

WJW has shown the Browns in the past. The interrupted FOX programming was shown later that night, to be watched or DVRed.

You cannot compare bumping network programming for local sports to bumping network programming for garbage. How do we the viewers benefit from crap like "Cash Explosion" in primetime and "Camp Adventures"? How is that better than an ABC movie and why does it deserve primetime air time? WEWS and WOIO are on the same level. Both have a bad habit of interrupting network programming for nonsense like paid programming.

And why is it a surprise how we plan our TV viewing? It is not only based on an "assumption". It is based on a network TV schedule. A schedule other decent TV stations leave alone. Yet 5 has to be different. They have to move network programming around. And that "assumption" should be true. If ABC runs countless promos that a movie will be shown on Saturday is it really wrong that I should expect the movie to be shown on Saturday?

Good work!!:D:D Keep alienating viewers!!

That's what happens when you live in a small city. In a big city like L.A. that never happens because all stations are networked owned. Sports teams play on local stations. And of course there are no football teams in L.A.:rolleyes:

Cleveland is hardly a "small city". We are number 17.

As far as owned and operated, I wish we would get more of those here. Current managment is terrible. Especially at a certain, cough cough abc cough cough, station.

Cleveland is hardly a "small city". We are number 17.

As far as owned and operated, I wish we would get more of those here. Current managment is terrible. Especially at a certain, cough cough abc cough cough, station.

Trust me. This is a small city compared to L.A. or New York.

Long before cable and UHF L.A. had channels 2(CBS), 4(NBC), 5(KTLA), 7(ABC), 9(then KHJ-TV), 11(KTTV), and 13(KCOP). 3 networks, 4 independents. No PBS back then. Dodgers were on Channel 11, Angels on Channel 5. No home games were shown, only away games.

How many did Cleveland have?

WUAB independent showed the Indians. Plus we had 61 and 67 as independents as well. Yes, nowhere near as many as LA, but not like Youngstown or another small market with only 3 main stations.

Actually the Indians used to be on WJW before Channel 43.

Speaking of WJW there appears to be no FOX HD tonight. The beginning of House said FOX Widescreen but no widescreen.

It is not really true to say that DVDs are "commercial free". Every time I buy one I have to sit through a pile of trailers, studio logos, FBI warnings etc etc, many of which you can't skip. I am sure it is getting worse :-(
At least compared to most HD content they have proper captions on them, though.

WUAB independent showed the Indians. Plus we had 61 and 67 as independents as well. Yes, nowhere near as many as LA, but not like Youngstown or another small market with only 3 main stations.

You're counting UHF. I wanted to know how many before UHF.

L.A. Had 3 UHF stations in the early days, onew was PBS and the other was a Spanish station. There was also channel 22 but I don't remember looking at that much.

Also when you talk about size of a city itself, L.A. is just plain huge. Like in New York you have a huge mass of people in a kind of small area. L.A. You can get on the 405 in Van Nuys, drive through Santa Monica, Culver City, back in L.A. then Hawthone, Lawndale, Redondo Beach, Torrance, Carson City then get on the 411 still going South and and up at the docks of San Pedro....Which is another district of the City of Los Angeles.

Now that drive is a good 50 miles from one end of L.A. to another. Then you could go West to East, Start at Venice Beach which is another district of City of L.A., Go through Culver City, Back in L.A. travel through another bunch of districts of L.A. go through Downtown L.A. and finally end up in East L.A.

It's just really huge. Essetially it's like the size of going from Canton to Cleveland and maybe from Chagrin Falls to Toledo.

Cleveland itself is not that big.

Speaking of WJW there appears to be no FOX HD tonight. The beginning of House said FOX Widescreen but no widescreen.

Yes, I noticed that last night. The first few seconds of House were in HD and then it reverted to SD and stayed there, even with the WJW-1 HD bug in the normal location beyond the SD program. Later, I watched an older Bones that was recorded a couple weeks ago and it was going in and out of HD, but there were constant weather warnings on the screen that night...

Yes, I noticed that last night. The first few seconds of House were in HD and then it reverted to SD and stayed there, even with the WJW-1 HD bug in the normal location beyond the SD program. Later, I watched an older Bones that was recorded a couple weeks ago and it was going in and out of HD, but there were constant weather warnings on the screen that night...

These are all reruns. Maybe that's why they are not broadcasting in HD?

Nickdawg may not realize it because probably his SA 8300 failed to record the shows when they were originally shown.:D:p

Sorry, dawg...couldn't resist. I know you're DVR is dependable. You probably didn't have Bones as one of your scheduled recordings.

These are all reruns. Maybe that's why they are not broadcasting in HD?

Nickdawg may not realize it because probably his SA 8300 failed to record the shows when they were originally shown.:D:p

Sorry, dawg...couldn't resist. I know you're DVR is dependable. You probably didn't have Bones as one of your scheduled recordings.

It IS a dependable DVR. I just didn't watch them during the season b/c 2.5 Men and The Big Bang Theory was on. I didn't record either b/c of a lack of time to watch and the fact that HD recordings take a HUGE bite out of hard drive space.

It IS a dependable DVR. I just didn't watch them during the season b/c 2.5 Men and The Big Bang Theory was on. I didn't record either b/c of a lack of time to watch and the fact that HD recordings take a HUGE bite out of hard drive space.

When I had the SA 8300 I had a 300 mgb eSATA hooked up. Can't you use eSATA?

By the way for whatever reason that was one of the causes of my gettng partial recordings. It was even the recommended one for the SA 8300.

When I had the SA 8300 I had a 300 mgb eSATA hooked up. Can't you use eSATA?

By the way for whatever reason that was one of the causes of my gettng partial recordings. It was even the recommended one for the SA 8300.

How long ago was that? I'm thinking there have been firmware revisions since then.

How long ago was that? I'm thinking there have been firmware revisions since then.

Oh yes, there has. But the one time they did do a firmware update it still didn't solve the problem. Then they panicked because there was another problem caused by FOX when commercials came on and pulled the updade.

All in all it was changed for about 7 days and I still had the partial recording problem. What was so weird about all that was that not everyone had it, but some did.

The same thing happens with TiVo. Problems pop up for some people and others say no never.

WKYC, thanks for being the quality, classy station by playing tonight's Jay Leno from the beginning. At least their interruption was for something!

My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.

No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.

OK, hookbill, we get it...L.A. is big and Cleveland is small. :)

OK, hookbill, we get it...L.A. is big and Cleveland is small. :)

Yeah but L.A. doesn't have all of you guys that make this forum so fun and educational. Well maybe they do, I don't know I don't go over there but there has got to be only one nickdawg!:D

I'll bet most of us in this forum don't live in Cleveland anyway. I wish I could have seen some HD broadcast last time I was out there, the bar I hung out had HD TV's but they didn't have service.

Time Warner is their provider.:rolleyes:

My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.

No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.


IIRC, his first few days on the job after replacing Brad Sussman (who was a very good weatherman, IMO) he made some really stupid, tasteless joke about people from Parma or something, and I've ignored the guy ever since. I think the station must have got a lot of complaints because he toned down his antics quite a bit after that.

anyone hear of any new HD Channels being added to Time Warner Weak HD Lineup.

I wonder how often they will add new channels and what has to happen for them to do it. As they are so far behing Dish/Direct in HD content.

Just curious

My favorite Mark Johnson story is the time he spent roughly a minute looking at a storm of some sort (can't remember if it was snow or rain), and got all excited because it would eventually be heading to Northeast Ohio, from NORTH DAKOTA.

No, I'm not making that up. The man needs to get out more, and not in the storms.

The TV doppler weather radar wars (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/19868)... click on "watch this movie."

The TV doppler weather radar wars (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/19868)... click on "watch this movie."

Pretty good!

OK since we are on a Mark Johnson bashing mode let me point out his vanity. When WEWS first went to HD he talked about how it showed so much more detail the regular broadcast television. He mentioned you can really see the grey in his hair.

A couple of weeks later I noticed no more grey hair.

"Just for Men?";)

OK since we are on a Mark Johnson bashing mode let me point out his vanity. When WEWS first went to HD he talked about how it showed so much more detail the regular broadcast television. He mentioned you can really see the grey in his hair.

A couple of weeks later I noticed no more grey hair.

"Just for Men?";)

It's fairly common for the corporate offices to monitor their local stations' newscasts from afar. I'm guessing that someone from Scripps Networks tapped him on the shoulder about that.

It's fairly common for the corporate offices to monitor their local stations' newscasts from afar. I'm guessing that someone from Scripps Networks tapped him on the shoulder about that.

Maybe. But I don't see what the big deal is. yes, I know you have to "look good" to be on television but his grey didn't change his looks any, you could just see it for the first time. And that was on my old CRT Sony Wega. I do admit that my picture on my LCD LG is much sharper and more defined so maybe it was worst then it appeared.

Anyway men, as a general rule of thumb don't really care much about grey in the hair. I admit that there was a short time in the 90's when I tried to get it out of my mustache because for whatever reason it seems the hair you grow last is the first to grow grey.

It was more trouble then it was worth, I felt.

And Andre Berneir, I think he's like 49 and he's got more grey then I do. My wife says he looks older then me.

And Dick Goddard. Well, we all know what that is on his head.:);)

He had me fooled though. When I first got here I didn't realize it was a wig until I saw a picture of him in the Plain-Dealer without it.:eek:

HD really brings out the worst in older women. When we got the LG my wife said she no longer felt so bad about the way she looked. Mariska Hargitay is a great example. First she grew out her hair which I thought made her look beautiful, then she cut it and I thought she looked so-so but I like women with long hair. However after getting the LG it is very apparent that she has quite a few wrinkles.

James Woods is another one that surprised me. Now I can't really say that I guy is "handsome" because I don't know, hell I think I look good and all you gotta do is take a look at the TiVo forum to see some old pictures of me.:eek: But Woods has so many wrinkles and other types of "stuff" on his face that we didn't notice before with the Sony Wega.

Marg Helgenberger, still looks great for her age! But I'll bet she's had some work done. Mariska should consider that.

Melissa Mack is my vote for best looking woman on the news, locally. She's gone from a "little girl" type look to "hot babe" in the last year. I'm also fond of Stacy Frey. I'd rather have her then either Stephanie or Tracy as the anchor person.

I'm partial to brunettes.

I just looked at the picture they have of Melissa on FOX 8's website. That does not do her justice at all!

If you want hot, check out 19 Action News. Weekends are great with Danielle Serino as anchor and Jennifer Harcher on weather. :D And I always like 5pm with Sharon Reed :D:D:D:D And of course there's Kimberly Gill on WEWS's Good Morning Cleveland.

HD really brings out the worst in older women. When we got the LG my wife said she no longer felt so bad about the way she looked.

Hear, hear. Score one for us regular folks. :)

...But Woods has so many wrinkles and other types of "stuff" on his face that we didn't notice before with the Sony Wega.

It's interesting that one of the qualities of HD that I find surprisingly revealing of facial details isn't the expanded resolution - it's the expanded color palette. In the SD world, most fleshtones tend to have a monochromatic, almost cartoonish look that hides a lot of color gradation in a person's skin. HD's wider palette tends to reveal a lot of subtle tonal information about an individual's face - little brown spots, freckles and the like. A good example is John McCain - he looks very different in HD than in SD. (No, this isn't a political statement - it's an observation of the differences in chroma bandwidth between SD and HD).

A good example is John McCain - he looks very different in HD than in SD. (No, this isn't a political statement - it's an observation of the differences in chroma bandwidth between SD and HD).

He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)

I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years:mad: (OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.;))

IIRC, his first few days on the job after replacing Brad Sussman (who was a very good weatherman, IMO) he made some really stupid, tasteless joke about people from Parma or something, and I've ignored the guy ever since. I think the station must have got a lot of complaints because he toned down his antics quite a bit after that.

Who did he think he was? Ghoulardi? Big Chuck?

:D

He thinks he's funny, that's the problem. That and his excitement over anything remotely resembling bad weather. Yesterday, he was positively giddy that we could get "severe storms" on Saturday. Bad weather for the weekend, woo hoo!

Melissa Mack is my vote for best looking woman on the news, locally. She's gone from a "little girl" type look to "hot babe" in the last year. I'm also fond of Stacy Frey. I'd rather have her then either Stephanie or Tracy as the anchor person.

Melissa was cute and all, when I first saw her, but looked WAY young. I haven't seen her lately. But when I saw her, I thought "she looks like a young teenage girl, is she old enough to be on TV?".

Some pretty women on FOX 8. Of course, one of 'em is the fiancee of the mayor of a certain large Cleveland suburb!

FOX 8's women are nothing compared to 19 :D

Melissa was cute and all, when I first saw her, but looked WAY young. I haven't seen her lately. But when I saw her, I thought "she looks like a young teenage girl, is she old enough to be on TV?".

Some pretty women on FOX 8. Of course, one of 'em is the fiancee of the mayor of a certain large Cleveland suburb!

My thoughts exactly! But you should see her a year later.

Maybe it's just the way she wears her hair and make up now, but she seems surprisingly more mature looking.

Hey.....I'm not some kind of sicko, you know.:D

If you want hot, check out 19 Action News. Weekends are great with Danielle Serino as anchor and Jennifer Harcher on weather. :D And I always like 5pm with Sharon Reed :D:D:D:D And of course there's Kimberly Gill on WEWS's Good Morning Cleveland.

The website photos probably don't do them justice, but Danielle Serino's shot is kind of sexy looking.:) Jennifer Harcher's shot doesn't look so great but she is probably better looking then the web picture. I couldn't find Kimberly Gill, but there are some other nice looking women over there.

But dawg, you know how you and I are and I gotta disagree about Sharon Reed. Nice looking, yes but hot babe....I don't think so. It's kind of funny that on her photo on the web page you can barely see her behind the desk.

I understand however that she has a nice butt.:D Too bad they didn't shoot that photo shot she was in in HD.

He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)

I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years:mad: (OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.;))
So for you, it looks like PQ is significantly more important than content. (Trying to stay on topic ... sort of) :)

So for you, it looks like PQ is significantly more important than content. (Trying to stay on topic ... sort of) :)

Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs. :D

As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.

Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb ;))

There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!:D:D

Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs. :D

As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.

Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb ;))

There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!:D:D

You forgot to say "I'm Barrack Obama and I apporve this message."

OMG....nickdawg is Barrack Obama!

You forgot to say "I'm Barrack Obama and I apporve this message."

OMG....nickdawg is Barrack Obama!

That would be awesome!! If I am elected, tax cuts for Tivo and SA8300HD users!! :D:D
___________________
I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message.

Watch this, I'm really gonna keep it on topic by discussing it as TVs. :D

As far as "content" and "substance", John McCain is the old B&W TV that has the dial to change channel and the rabbit ear on top. He's the same, old, antiquated product that we've had in the past. His messages are fuzzy and unclear. Not much room for improvement and very bad at using bandwith.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, is the 50 in plasma screen with HDMI and 5.1 surround system with a universal remote that works for everything. He's new, now and happening. The way of the future. He has the ability to manage his bandwith more efficiently and add more in the future. His messages are clear and sharp and he stands out.

Some are hesitant to give up their old TVs. "How's this HDTV supposed to be better?" But eventually they'll see a HDTV-and want it! Once they choose HDTV they'll say, "How did we ever live with that old, outdated thing before? HDTV knows the future!" (said as B&W tv is taken to curb ;))

There, I explained the election---all in terms of TV and technology!!:D:D
Let's see if I can keep this going...

Unfortunately, the BO plasma requires by law that you use it as he sees fit. For instance, there is no satellite and everyone's stuck with TWC cable and their customer service (with only BO-approved channels, of course).

Not only that, but you will be limited to a single government-issued SA8300, since the BO plasma is so expensive for anyone to afford more. Besides, you will be required by law to pay for a BO plasma, TWC and SA8300 for everyone who can't afford it on their own, so your disposable income will be nil. (BO and his cronies will still be OK, by the way.)

Think you can use a Tivo? No chance. Due to lack of government approval, all Tivos in existence will be disconnected from the system, and attempts to reconnect will be criminalized and result in jail time. (I think I may have a chance at getting hook on my side for once.)

The partial truth sounds great (50" plasmas for all!), but the whole truth and actual cost aren't really that realistic. That black and white TV with OTA reception is looking better all the time.

Back at ya.;)

Let's see if I can keep this going...

Unfortunately, the BO plasma requires by law that you use it as he sees fit. For instance, there is no satellite and everyone's stuck with TWC cable and their customer service (with only BO-approved channels, of course).

Not only that, but you will be limited to a single government-issued SA8300, since the BO plasma is so expensive for anyone to afford more. Besides, you will be required by law to pay for a BO plasma, TWC and SA8300 for everyone who can't afford it on their own, so your disposable income will be nil. (BO and his cronies will still be OK, by the way.)

Think you can use a Tivo? No chance. Due to lack of government approval, all Tivos in existence will be disconnected from the system, and attempts to reconnect will be criminalized and result in jail time. (I think I may have a chance at getting hook on my side for once.)

The partial truth sounds great (50" plasmas for all!), but the whole truth and actual cost aren't really that realistic. That black and white TV with OTA reception is looking better all the time.

Back at ya.;)

Wait a minute. You seem to be very confused. The current GWB display is the one who takes away freedom of choice and makes it more difficult for those who cannot afford to own a TiVo. The JM is not true HD, he is simply a repackage of the GWB which is really stretch o vision. Like how he stretches the truth when he says he is against war but plans on staying in Iraq until we finish, which we never will. He's a one channel system

The BO is HD but it is not simply plasma. It's also LCD and Projection. It projects peace and harmony, working with our enemies to try to understand our differences while keeping a good working crystal clear picture. The BO does not discriminate against satellite, cable, or OTA. It is a new and clear direction of technology that we must take.

And for those who do not want this new technology, I say if your not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

Wait a minute. You seem to be very confused. The current GWB display is the one who takes away freedom of choice and makes it more difficult for those who cannot afford to own a TiVo. The JM is not true HD, he is simply a repackage of the GWB which is really stretch o vision. Like how he stretches the truth when he says he is against war but plans on staying in Iraq until we finish, which we never will. He's a one channel system

The BO is HD but it is not simply plasma. It's also LCD and Projection. It projects peace and harmony, working with our enemies to try to understand our differences while keeping a good working crystal clear picture. The BO does not discriminate against satellite, cable, or OTA. It is a new and clear direction of technology that we must take.

And for those who do not want this new technology, I say if your not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

I like the way you think. Maybe not on DVRs, but politics yes. GWB is analog SD. Inefficient and a huge pain in the arse to those who want th technology of the future.;) Since the GWB is SD, the JM is like TBS HD: GWB in stretchovision. And we all know that stretchovision makes a TV experience worse than SD!

I love the description of the BO!! The JM is simply 480i, 4x3, CRT. Nothing more, nothing less. THe BO can be Plasma, LCD, Projection; whatever is appropriate for the situation. The BO is 1080p. It supports the new formats that are coming as well as the older formats on some classics that might still work. The JM can handle the new formats as well, but nowhere near as good as a new BO. Plus try running the new software on that old machine!! Not gonna happen(like Navigator on the old boxes!).

The BO is state of the art. No more favoring satellite over OTA or cable. All sources are accpeted and supported at the same time!! They all come together to work towards a common goal: a clean, crystal clear picture to the world. The kind our founding fathers dreamed about. The kind we had before we were all forced-downgraded to the GWB, again like Navigator;)

Wow, sounds like a Billy Mays sales pitch (SD infomercial guy) for the BO. It's always the information that he leaves out of the commercial (shipping/extra charges, durability, etc.) that make all the wonderful "free" stuff (but wait, there's more!) not so free and not so wonderful in the real world.

Keep the country safe from enemies (foreign and domestic), and stay out of my pocket. The GWB model has done a remarkable job on the first, and needs to do way better on the second. Unfortunately on the second issue, the GWB model was bad, JM will likely be worse, and comrade BO would be worst of all on both.

Of course, all of this will play out in wonderful HD on all four of our local HD major network channels.

In the spirit of the centrist commentator, Bill O'Reilly, I'll give you two the last word.

In the spirit of the centrist commentator, Bill O'Reilly, I'll give you two the last word.


OMFG!!! You're not serious!! Centrist? That guy's DBS dish is definately pointed to the right. Picking up alot of nothing. The fact you mentioned him explains alot.

I don't mind paying. I'd rather pay to give Americans Universal HD service than build transmitter towers in Iraq and give the people at Gitmo the Universal HD service.

JM is an analog, two channel PCM broadcast being played out of an old set with one mono speaker. Loud an whiney with no depth or feeling. BO is the Dolby Digital 3/2.1 broadcast on an great surround system that you can feel when he talks. The floor shakes, sound that gives you goosebumps from the awsomeness---both in quality and substance.

The GWB model has done a great job at stretching American bandwidth thin in Iraq. So much American bandwidth is being used there if we ever needed it here, there wouldn't be enough. And all this bandwidth isn't free. My grandchildren and beyond will be paying for said bandwidth. And the JM model wants to ensure that there will be bandwidth overseas for at least 100 years. The BO model wil make sure that bandwith is returned to domestic use in about 16 months.

Can we stop the political talk before it gets out of hand? (And it WILL get out of hand!)

Can we stop the political talk before it gets out of hand? (And it WILL get out of hand!)

Agreed. We really are not suppose to go there.

So to get back on topic (sort of) is the completion of the conversion for TW completed? And does anyone with a SARA SA 8300 have Navigator software?

Who's talking political? I was talking about the bandwidht usage and picture quality on the GWB display vs. the BO display. ;) ;)

The GWB will be shut off on January 20th, 2009. $40 Coupons are available for those of you who still use OTA to get your government.

Now that we all know where we stand politically, let's get back on topic!

Actually 2009.

February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.

It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be HD on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in digital, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).

February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.

It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be HD on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in digital, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).

I'm guessing they are making such blanket statements cuz the general public is already confused enough on the DTV conversion issue. Getting into "well, most stations will convert to DTV but not all because........" will only confuse people further. To add further confusion I'd guess some of those low power stations may have already converted or will convert by Feb 09, while others will not.
Keep it simple for the masses. ;)

Out of curiosity, what % of US OTA broadcasters are low power stations?

February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.

It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be HD on February 17th, which is incorrect. All full-power broadcasters must be transmitting in digital, not necessarily in HD. I actually heard one of those "news minutes" recently on network radio where the guy excitedly announced that it's all going to be HD next February (hint - it's the network that's named after a small animal).
You missed the pun. "GWB" will be shut down on Jan 20th, '09, that is inauguration day for the new president.

He is damn scary in HD!! He has puffy cheeks and a turkey gobbler neck. (Not a political statement, just the truth)

I would hate to have to look at his ugly face in HD for the next four years:mad: (OK, maybe that was a little bit of a political statement.;))

I know others have said to "knock off" the politics.

But let me add something: Have some respect. The man is 72, has had cancer, wore his country's uniform for over 20 years; and had the s*** tortured out of him by the NVN's. From the lack of maturity in your comment, I would guess that you are 20 something and spent those years living for yourself. If I'm wrong, stopping acting like it!

You missed the pun. "GWB" will be shut down on Jan 20th, '09, that is inauguration day for the new president.

I caught the pun, Michael. Thanks anyway. I'm just trying to keep this thread on the tracks. Sometimes my attempts to do this can be a little clumsy. :)

February 17th, 2009 is the shutdown date.

It surprises me how some of the broadcasters are telling people that all OTA must be HD on February 17th, which is incorrect.


Who says that? I have never heard that. I've heard digital every time and it is the same commercial, or infomercial or notice (whatever) on each channel.

Now you are going to have to figure out a way to record something different on your DVR, VCR or whatever, put in on the computer and prove you're right.

See the trouble you can cause?:D;)

WJW has the Tribe forced into SD b/c severe weather. Now they're doing a split screen with the game in a small box and a damn live weather map in the other.

WEWS cuts in(as usual) but in this case it's paid programming. And now they decide to throw back to "regular programming"---when it's paid programming they can make money off of! Actually right now is supposed to be Wheel of Fortune but they chose to run the paid program.

Of course WOIO and WKYC are the only two stations with class. A simple crawl inserted over HD.

WJW has the Tribe forced into SD b/c severe weather. Now they're doing a split screen with the game in a small box and a damn live weather map in the other.

WEWS cuts in(as usual) but in this case it's paid programming. And now they decide to throw back to "regular programming"---when it's paid programming they can make money off of! Actually right now is supposed to be Wheel of Fortune but they chose to run the paid program.

Of course WOIO and WKYC are the only two stations with class. A simple crawl inserted over HD.

Is there anybody out there that can be more consistantly wrong then you? OK maybe me, but WJW does have the ability to crawl on HD now and has for a while. Even WOIO does.

I don't know why they are broadcasting in SD.

And what really pisses me off is it's the one friggen time that I get the Dodgers in HD on FOX, probably all year and I'm watching in SD now.

Is there anybody out there that can be more consistantly wrong then you? OK maybe me, but WJW does have the ability to crawl on HD now and has for a while. Even WOIO does.
I don't know why they are broadcasting in SD.

And what really pisses me off is it's the one friggen time that I get the Dodgers in HD on FOX, probably all year and I'm watching in SD now.

No they don't. Every time something comes up in primetime they are forcing SD. If you're thinking of the "FOX 8.1" bug in primetime that is controlled by the network distribution. Each local FOX has its own bug.

But I don't expect to see HD keying equipment any time soon(if they need to add it) since the sale to Local TV is about to be finalized.

No they don't. Every time something comes up in primetime they are forcing SD. If you're thinking of the "FOX 8.1" bug in primetime that is controlled by the network distribution. Each local FOX has its own bug.

But I don't expect to see HD keying equipment any time soon(if they need to add it) since the sale to Local TV is about to be finalized.

Ahhh, bull pucky. I know I've seen the crawl in HD on WJW.

But that still doesn't explain why they pulled the Dolby 5.1. I've seen them go to SD in the past and continue with Dolby 5.1.

And why do you think the new owners are cheap? Not everyone is WOIO. Give them a chance, geeze, they just bought the darn station.

OK, so the game goes to SD and stays that way until the Tribe takes the lead in the 11th. Then suddenly it goes back to HD, just that quick.

One of you work for WJW and did this deliberately to humiliate me.:o

We will get you tomorrow!:mad:

I think the LAD losing to the Tribe (AGAIN!) is humiliating enough for you . :D

But that still doesn't explain why they pulled the Dolby 5.1. I've seen them go to SD in the past and continue with Dolby 5.1..

That's wrong. If they did that, then they obviously messed something up. SD programming is 2.0. If it says 3/2.1 on then either it is an awful fake surround upvoncert or they are doing L/R only and nothing is coming out of the other speakers. WKYC does that one. It always says 3/2.1 but it isn't.

I think the LAD losing to the Tribe (AGAIN!) is humiliating enough for you . :D

It's clear to me that the reason we lost was because of WJW's apparent inability to deliver a high definition picture. It takes power and when L.A. has to provide all the power and Cleveland doesn't, then it's obvious that they will hit better in the late innings.

I mean this is just common sense!

And where the heck was the Tribe when I needed them against Colorado? Getting their collective butts kicked.

I should have never even thought about sympathy for Cleveland against my Red Sox. Never again.

Further, King James went and shot his mouth off on how they went 7 games with Boston and L.A. only managed to go 6, so he feels they are a better team then the Lakers? What a joke, without him there is no team.

Well, one thing that Cleveland and Los Angeles do share: neither of them has a professional football team. And I've always cheered the Tribe against the Anaheim Angels, or California Angels. As far as I'm concerned they are not the "Los Angeles Angels" of Aneheim, they lost their L.A. title when they moved to Anaheim back around 1964.

Well, no more. For one thing Mike Scioscia is the manager of the team and he plays true NATIONAL League Dodger baseball. So that's another team I'll prefer over the Indians.

And if by some strange quirk of fate the Dodgers lose tomorrow, I will put the Indians in the following order of baseball teams I hate: 1. New York Yankees 2. San Francisco Giants 3. Any other team in the same division of the Dodgers. 4. CLEVELAND INDIANS!

I'm a sore loser!

That's wrong. If they did that, then they obviously messed something up. SD programming is 2.0. If it says 3/2.1 on then either it is an awful fake surround upvoncert or they are doing L/R only and nothing is coming out of the other speakers. WKYC does that one. It always says 3/2.1 but it isn't.

I'll be truthfull, I don't know if Cops is in HD or not. I know at one time it wasn't but you still got the Dolby 5.1 sound signal.

However you did not get Dolby 5.1. There is nothing going to the back except commercials.

And correct me if I'm wrong but when the Tribe plays on STO doesn't the sound show 3.2.0? I never did understand that.

I've been meaning to mention this for a few weeks now but according to Jeff Probes Survivor will be in HD next year.

Now Survivor was a show that was filmed in SD but did have Dolby 5.1 and it wasn't fake.

I'll be truthfull, I don't know if Cops is in HD or not. I know at one time it wasn't but you still got the Dolby 5.1 sound signal.

However you did not get Dolby 5.1. There is nothing going to the back except commercials.

Cops is 16:9 digital. There are plans (this fall I think) to go actual HD. FOX does send down a digital feed of SD shows with 5.1 audio. 4:3 shows like AMW and Mad TV come through as 3/2.1.

And correct me if I'm wrong but when the Tribe plays on STO doesn't the sound show 3.2.0? I never did understand that.

I have no clue what that is. STO still uses that bastardized format that WKYC once used on local programming. I think they are missing the low frequency. The LFE light isn't on STO and 3/2 is missing the .1.

I've been meaning to mention this for a few weeks now but according to Jeff Probes Survivor will be in HD next year.

Now Survivor was a show that was filmed in SD but did have Dolby 5.1 and it wasn't fake.

CBS also sends down a true digital feed for the HD channel, usually including surround. You can tell the difference between 60 Minutes at 7pm (analog SD upconvert by affiliate) and The Amazing Race at 8pm (digital network feed). One day when WOIO was running weather maps it was irritating b/c they kept switching between the two feeds and the sound would get really loud on the network digital and really low on the analog upconvert.

Agreed. We really are not suppose to go there.

So to get back on topic (sort of) is the completion of the conversion for TW completed? And does anyone with a SARA SA 8300 have Navigator software?


Hook, I am still waiting on a Navigator update here in Twinsburg. Still using an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have been so busy playing with my new Klipsch surround system that I haven't watched much TV lately. Lots of Blu-Ray and DVDs to break in the new speakers.

I went with RF 83 fronts, RC 64 center, RS 62 surrounds, and an RT 12d sub. I may never leave my house again. Now I just need TWC to add more HD channels with surround.

Hook, I am still waiting on a Navigator update here in Twinsburg. Still using an 8300 HDC with SARA. I have been so busy playing with my new Klipsch surround system that I haven't watched much TV lately. Lots of Blu-Ray and DVDs to break in the new speakers.

I went with RF 83 fronts, RC 64 center, RS 62 surrounds, and an RT 12d sub. I may never leave my house again. Now I just need TWC to add more HD channels with surround.

You see that's just it. I still have not seen one confirmed case of SARA converted to Navigator.

Now depending what mood dawg is in that either is a blessing or a curse. I'm so confused on how he stands on Navigator these days I can't tell. And since there were upgrades to SARA from the time I last used it hopefully it could only get better - like record when you asked it to.:rolleyes:

I know that some of the features they added on SARA was the ability to watch a show in recording progress without being kicked out to the end when the recording was over. I know they added a real super fast high speed fourth gear on the fast forward, something I didn't like. Other then that I don't know what else they did.

There was one person in the SA 8300 thread who was just so excited and thrilled with Navigator, but it turned out he had never owned any other DVR before. I tried to be kind and explained that it's kind of like different cars. You have a Chevy Malibu (Navigator) a Caddy (SARA-and I was being very generous there) a BMW (Passport) and then there is a Rolls (TiVo). I said if you were never aware of what else was available of course you would be happy with what you have.

Then a long time regular took my statement and cut it up to say that the Navigator was more like a Yugo.:eek: So you may be thankfull that for whatever reason SARA is the last that will, if it can be, changed.

WEWS truncated the Indy Cars auto race with 30 laps to go for full screen weather information. Then go back for the endless post race interviews.

I'm just catching up to how CBS, or WOIO shot themselves in the foot with NO HD on their last show finalies. What a disappointment!

nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?

I'm just catching up to how CBS, or WOIO shot themselves in the foot with NO HD on their last show finalies. What a disappointment!

nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?

What last show finalies? Everything I watched was HD.

And what do you mean about Bones? Was is shown in 4:3 again or were they doing widescreen?

What last show finalies? Everything I watched was HD.

And what do you mean about Bones? Was is shown in 4:3 again or were they doing widescreen?

Ritalin. Seriously, should try it.

The finalies for all CBS shows were wide screen, not HD. First clue is the eye is pratically in the middle of the screen, not off to the side. As the show starts it turns and says CBS HD then back to the eye. This did not happen. Second clue was pq, it was poor. I did several pauses and you can really see it there.

And finally dawg, in the paragraph that you quoted I said it was in widescreen. Take a look yourself: nickdawg I see Fox is still showing Bones in Widescreen. What's up with this crap?

So your CBS affiliate stretched the CBS content? Sorry if I missed if there were other details provided earlier, but I don't think CBS has provided a SD widescreen feed like FOX does.

I know ABC has moved their bug to fit in the 4:3 frame to better work with the converter boxes and other center-cut systems. Since finalies were so long ago (and I haven't watched CBS lately), I don't remember if CBS had moved their bug/discontinued the "CBS HD" turn.

EDIT: Actually, it appears that nickdawg reported back on 5/22 (in another thread) that NBC followed the lead of CBS in moving their bug into the 4:3 space: nickdawg's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13928792)

So your CBS affiliate stretched the CBS content? Sorry if I missed if there were other details provided earlier, but I don't think CBS has provided a SD widescreen feed like FOX does.

I know ABC has moved their bug to fit in the 4:3 frame to better work with the converter boxes and other center-cut systems. Since finalies were so long ago (and I haven't watched CBS lately), I don't remember if CBS had moved their bug/discontinued the "CBS HD" turn.

EDIT: Actually, it appears that nickdawg reported back on 5/22 (in another thread) that NBC followed the lead of CBS in moving their bug into the 4:3 space: nickdawg's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13928792)

No it didn't look stretched. It looked widescreen, and it didn't appear to have the sharpness and clarity that I usually see on their HD broadcast.

And as far as the spinning eye, that could be possible they did that last year too but it was still in the right position.

I watched the Law & Order Season Finale and I don't recall NBC's bug being in a different spot. But I'll put it out of the trash and take a look.;)

Edit: OK, L&O's "bug", which I assume is the peacock logo with the Olympic Rings is still in the same spot. It wouldn't show on a 4:3 screen.

I took a quick glance at CSI:NY and maybe my mind is playing tricks with me. I've been having some eye problems as of late so perhaps that's why I didn't think it was as sharp as it should be but I did a comparison and CSI:NY looked as good as L&O. Also I noticed it did say presented in CBS High Definition but you will see that on a SD show all the time. And the Eye is where it would be on a 4:3 frame.

Well, looking at Young and the Restless on CBS right now and the CBS bug is in the 4:3 space. Again, CBS hasn't provided SD Widescreen like FOX, so if you're seeing something in widescreen on a CBS affiliate it's either stretched SD or it's HD.

It's entirely possible that WOIO changed their encoder settings so the picture isn't as clear, but I believe I can say with some confidence that what you were watching was supposed to be HD.

You'll be seeing alot of the same graphics you'd see on the SD version of the major networks since it appears they're pretty much producing one feed which is either center-cut (very popular with ABC programming) or letterboxed (very popular with NBC programming) for the SD viewers.

Ritalin. Seriously, should try it.

The finalies for all CBS shows were wide screen, not HD. First clue is the eye is pratically in the middle of the screen, not off to the side. As the show starts it turns and says CBS HD then back to the eye. This did not happen.

This was a network decision. In an effort to make SD downconversion easier for affiliates after 2/17/09. The bug and all snipes/ads are in the 4x3 area so affiliates can "crop" the sides for the SD digital channel on cable/satellite. The shows are still 16x9 1080i, just the graphics moved. ABC has also recently moved theirs. So did NBC(but who watches Nothing But Crap anyway? :D).

Second clue was pq, it was poor. I did several pauses and you can really see it there.

Probably an affiliate issue. They do have that waste of bandwidth weather channel. Or maybe it's Tivo :p I keed, I keed:D:D

I've seen it too.

nickdawg, I hope your on the money with this dude. Tonight Mark Johnson on channel 5 is predicting "possible severe weather for the remainder of the week."

Now usually this doesn't bother me but since I now work like everyone else my car is not in the garage. That is my NEW car that I bought last Tuesday isn't in the garage.:eek:

Hail can be evil.

No room in the garage?!? Get rid of all the junk! :D;):D

nickdawg, I hope your on the money with this dude. Tonight Mark Johnson on channel 5 is predicting "possible severe weather for the remainder of the week."

Now usually this doesn't bother me but since I now work like everyone else my car is not in the garage. That is my NEW car that I bought last Tuesday isn't in the garage.:eek:

Hail can be evil.

Buy a car cover (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=442&pricetype=)

No room in the garage?!? Get rid of all the junk! :D;):D

Huh? Who said anything about that?

Are you hanging out with nickdawg?:D;)

Buy a car cover (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=442&pricetype=)

When I had a motorcycle I use to to that. The problem is just like everyone else I only have so much time.

It's a shame. I'm 55 years old and I'm working harder then at anytime in my life. I worked in some tough jobs early on before going to tech school but that was more in the way of boring, repetative, and kind of standing on one leg working a punch press all day. It had this little counter on it and the boss would come by and write it down. I never did but all I had to do was pull the chain 50 times and I'd look like I made 50 more pieces. It was hot, uncomfortable and dirty.

Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.

Once they even hunted me down in the bathroom when I had a bad case of constipation. Hey, it happens to people my age. I was so embarrassed I went to the doctor and got a note saying that I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome and I may need extra time on some occassions.

So I have to be there early so I can go through my email, take care of any unfinished business that I couldn't do while on the phone, work through my break, sometimes part or all of my lunch. Because if I don't they will want to know why I am not performing as well as a 25 year old.

So you see, I can't cover the car. Tonight I got one hour of TiVo in. I saw the finale of Boston Legal. And it's not just this company I work for. All Customer Service Reps are are pushed so hard and monitored so closely.

I was also and administrative assistant. That means you do the boss's work, he gets the credit.

Good night guys. 6 am comes early.:)

Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.

Once they even hunted me down in the bathroom when I had a bad case of constipation. Hey, it happens to people my age. I was so embarrassed I went to the doctor and got a note saying that I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome and I may need extra time on some occassions.

So I have to be there early so I can go through my email, take care of any unfinished business that I couldn't do while on the phone, work through my break, sometimes part or all of my lunch. Because if I don't they will want to know why I am not performing as well as a 25 year old.

So you see, I can't cover the car. Tonight I got one hour of TiVo in. I saw the finale of Boston Legal. And it's not just this company I work for. All Customer Service Reps are are pushed so hard and monitored so closely.


I hear you, Hookbill. Time is such a precious commodity, and it seems like we have less and less of it these days.

Huh? Who said anything about that?

Are you hanging out with nickdawg?:D;)

Just razzin ya man :D. You said you've got this NEW car, but it's not in the garage. I thought I'd just throw a guess out there as to why ;).

Just razzin ya man :D. You said you've got this NEW car, but it's not in the garage. I thought I'd just throw a guess out there as to why ;).

Nah, the reason why was I thought I had retired and my car was in the garage most of the time.

The Saturn I just turned in had a grand total of 17,000 miles on it a 2005 leased in December 2004.

I put 7000 miles on that in the last 6 months.

Unless you have Fox Sports Net for other cities then you probably never see the Chevron Gas car commercials with the talking cars. I remember one with the car standing outside of the garage which was full of stuff complaining that the garage is for the car, not a storage area.

I think they still do them, they were pretty entertaining 15 years ago.

Now nothing about Oil Companies is funny anymore.

Now I'm under this microscope where they want to know where you are every second of the day. If you're off the phone for 5 minutes your boss calls you to see if you are having a problem. You may be filling out a form for a customer or doing something else but they want you to do 4 things at one time.

Are you a CSR for TWC?:D
Seriously, its a shame performance quotas come down to hunting someone down in the bathroom. In the end your boss and your boss's boss probably have to perform like this or corporate will move the jobs to India.:mad:

Are you a CSR for TWC?:D
Seriously, its a shame performance quotas come down to hunting someone down in the bathroom. In the end your boss and your boss's boss probably have to perform like this or corporate will move the jobs to India.:mad:

Well, I put an end to that when I went to the doctor. I notified HR and it's not a problem anymore. But we are still watched closely.

My boss is from India! :)

Just a quick heads-up to any OTA viewers who might watch TBN, WDLI has applied to move from channel 39 (at 200 kW) to channel 49 (at 900 kW).

- Trip

Isn't WNEO on channel 49?

I got a message on my TiVo about some channel in the 500's, the On Demand sections has been added. That's great, thank you TiVo. We don't get On Demand.:rolleyes:

Isn't WNEO on channel 49?

Until 02/17/09. Then WEAO-DT is only on channel 50.

- Trip

Until 02/17/09. Then WEAO-DT is only on channel 50.

- Trip

Got it. Thanks.

to add more HD Channels...it sucks compared to Direct/Dish..

it can't be that difficult to add new Channels....can it be ???

to add more HD Channels...it sucks compared to Direct/Dish..

it can't be that difficult to add new Channels....can it be ???

SDV - SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO, and yes, it isn't that easy for them to do.

Not to defend TW, but they got stuck with Adelphia who never had their channels aligned and used SA 8300 SARA software for DVR's, then picked up Comcast as part of the Adelphia buyout who use Motorola boxes. So they start with what they already owned and convert the SA 8300 Passport boxes (sympathies to nickdawg) to Navigator software and now they will have to figure out the rest. Navigator has the SDV in it but they can't do it until they convert everyone.

Also this changed to SDV appears to be slower then anticipated (suprise) not just here but throughout the country.

So if you want more HD channels now, satellite is your answer. But there is the question of quality of HD channels. Just because a channel is listed as "HD" doesn't mean it will have HD program all the time. ESPN doesn't. Nickdawgs favorite channel, TBS doesn't. TNT doesn't.

I will say this: I have tuned into the HD History channel and I am quite amazed at some of the stuff I've seen recently there. "How the Earth Was Made" was spectacular in HD. So last night I made a wish list on my TiVo for shows in HD, subcategory documentary, and history. It gave me a wealth of programs to choose from that looked real interesting. And it excluded any non HD programs.

SDV, I hope they at least do it for their original customers FIRST. We already have the new Navigator software so it's in the near future.

SDV, I hope they at least do it for their original customers FIRST. We already have the new Navigator software so it's in the near future.

I doubt that you're high on the priority list. First, they have a lot of areas that they haven't even touched yet. I'm talking beyond Cleveland and Akron. Second, We are customers just like you. What makes you think you're special? Plus here's a newsflash. We outnumber you original TW people.

SDV is not something that you can only offer some and not others in the same area. They will have to either figure out a way to give navigator to SARA people, which as I have explained many times has not been done anywhere to the best of my knowledge and then they have to deal with the moto boxes.

Here's what I think. They are going to pull all the SARA boxes and give out SA 8300 HDC because they cannot convert them to Navigator. Same with the Moto boxes. Of course that will mean thousands of customers will lose their recordings but hey, that's not TW's problem now is it?

I personally don't give a rats ass if it ever gets here. But I guarantee you won't see it before 2009. That that to the bank, dawg!:D

I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.

I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.

They are exactly the same(hardware). The only difference is some 8300HD have SARA and some have Passport. Both can run Navigator. It's just taking them forever(as usual) to deploy it. I got the new lineup in March and Navigator at the beginning of May. Just keep waiting patiently, hook :p They didn't forget you :D

Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".

My guess(I know hook) is these are SDV test channels that may be coming soon. In one of the other thread(Navigator I believe) areas were running test channels in odd places before deploying SDV.

EDIT: The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the screen.

948: ABC Family
949: FX
950: FNC
951: History
952: MTV
953: NICK
954: TLC
955: SPIKE

Methinks SDV will be here before 2009, at least for some of us :p

I personally know of people with 8300 SARA (non-HDC boxes) that have been converted to Navigator. So I don't expect that there are hardware limitations in the traditional 8300 boxes that preclude the deployment of Navigator.

Really? Well you ought to let them know about that at the SA 8300 SARA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=471859)thread because they don't seem to know about that.

It's difficult for me to say this but unless things have changed over there in the past few weeks, and they may have I find your statement a little difficult to believe. Yet I've never known you to be a liar and I don't want to cast that dispersion on you, I'll accept what you say as fact but difficult to understand how some people in Cleveland have got the change but nobody on that thread has.

As I said, things may have changed. I haven't read the thread for a couple of weeks.

And accepting what you say as fact you still have the moto boxes to deal with. No one who has an SA 8300 SARA in this forum has reported receiving Navigator either.

Forgive me, I am a total noob to the AVS forums but I figured if there is a definative answer to this that someone here could help me. If this is in the wrong forum just let me know and I will move it.

I am a first time home buyer and am going to be moving to Lyndhurst in a few months. I currently live in Cleveland Heights and have TWC. Quite frankly I am just tired of it. I think everyone will agree the number of HD channels are limited and the addition of HD channels is slow. Not to mention the poor customer service and problems with digital blocking for months.

Now, being a home owner for the first time I actually have the option to switch over to Direct TV or Dish Network or just stay with TWC. I was curious, considering all things, (price, service, channel options, etc.) which option people feel is best.

Thanks a ton and I gotta say that I have learned a ton here just by lurking.

If you are interested in more HD, Directv and Dish will be your first choices (basically in that order because Directv has more at this point). Directv is also your choice if you're interested in sports subscriptions, since they have some exclusive deals.

The main thing about the satellite services is that you must have clear line of sight. If there will be trees in the area, you might have a problem. My suggestion is to drive around where you will be living and see if you see dishes. That will tell you the exact directions that need to have clear sight.

You may also have the ability to subcribe to ATT Uverse in your location, but they're still going through some growing pains.

Finally, you have to decide how you want to get your internet. If you don't get cable, you either have to go with DSL or (Gasp!) Dialup. DSL may not always be as fast, but you'll get some price choices.

Anyway, ask questions, and we'll help!

Thanks for your response.

I am definitely most interested in the most HD selection and I know Direct TV offers that, but I have just heard horror stories about Direct and Dish customers having bad service or losing service. I know my girlfriend would murder me if I switch over from something "dependable" in her eyes (TWC, but I don't know if I think it’s the most dependable thing ever either) to something like satellite. Not to mention I worry about the start-up costs of a satellite service and a satellite service just costing me more in general. I pay $130 now for cable internet connection and then digital cable on two TVs. You know?

And you are right about internet too. I have had cable internet for a while now and I am beginning to wonder if I would be able to assimilate to DSL or just get frustrated because it’s a bit slower. I just hate TWC so much sometimes but being able to get half decent TV with cable internet from the same place is mighty appealing.

Although I guess that would change if TWC makes the change over to having caps on the amount of data downloaded through your internet connection.

Others may have different stories, but I had Dish and now have Directv, and except for an installation issue with Directv that was resolved, I have never had any major customer service issues. I have read the horror stories elsewhere, but I just haven't had that experience.

Of course, I tend to be somewhat anal about certain things and may have done everything in advance to avoid issues and I tend to understand the idea that some things are out of everyone's control, where some people I think are more picky.

Anyway, if your girlfriend considers Time Warner to be more "dependable", you need to continue to stick around here and read the horror stories as they come in... And they will come in!

Thanks for your response.

I am definitely most interested in the most HD selection and I know Direct TV offers that, but I have just heard horror stories about Direct and Dish customers having bad service or losing service. I know my girlfriend would murder me if I switch over from something "dependable" in her eyes (TWC, but I don't know if I think it’s the most dependable thing ever either) to something like satellite. Not to mention I worry about the start-up costs of a satellite service and a satellite service just costing me more in general. I pay $130 now for cable internet connection and then digital cable on two TVs. You know?
............

I've never had sat service but as jtscherne has stated I've also heard varying degrees of problems/issues with sat service. I've spoken with some who say their sat signal is hardly ever out (weather, atmospherics, snow, ice, wind, sat equipment issues, etc...) while others have told me they lost their signal so often they finally gave up and went back to cable.

But I'd bet a lot of the problems were related to poor installations.

yeah and that's the thing. I know TWC is garbage. Like many others on this board I have just had ongoing problems with my cable. Its like when one problem goes away, another happens. I just grew tired of dealing with CSRs and just have given up. My girlfriend looks at TWC as dependable because at the end of the day you have SOMETHING.

She sees it as with sat service that if there is a storm you may have nothing. That's a problem.

I just hate TWC and want any excuse to leave. And I love the selection of sports packages and HD channels with sat. Cable can't even come close to touching sat. there.

Its always that degree of feeling comfortable with cable and having that nice cable internet service bundled in that always make me come crawling back.

Is there anyone who has either dish or direct that could make a compelling argument? I REALLY want to leave TWC, but don't want to invest in something that's going to be a headache. Because sat service really is somewhat of an investment (and please let me know if I am wrong there).

...................Its always that degree of feeling comfortable with cable and having that nice cable internet service bundled in that always make me come crawling back..........

And add in VOIP service to the package and it *really* becomes an almost unbeatable deal!
Assuming all three services are relatively reliable. :confused:

Is TWC your only cable option in Lyndhurst?

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. Should I use the Winegard MS-1000 omnidrectional?

I think so. It seems that the east side of Cleveland is pretty much dominated by TWC. I had Cox when I lived in Lakewood and I loved it. It actually wasn't bad and when I did have problems, stuff actually got taken care of.

I'm not really sure either if uVerse is out in Lyndhurst yet, but I don't know if it even would matter for me. I have heard a certain amount of limitations of uverse that need to be worked out before I would ever consider it.

Its really looks like its TWC, Dish or Direct as my choices. I am pretty much in the same boat as like 90% of Clevelanders, so that's why I want to ask around to see what people suggest.

oh and btw, apparently uverse IS out in Lyndhurst where I am. So I guess that is another choice I have. Anyone have any insigh on uverse as a legit option?

I live in Brook Park zip 44142 ranch no obstructions going in the attic 50-75 feet RG6 quad no pre-amp. Should I use the Winegard MS-1000 omnidrectional?

I use the Winegard MS-2000 which I believe is the same antenna but with an amplifier. Mine works great in Strongsville so you being even closer to the towers should be a rock solid signal.

Placing it in your attic may or may not be an issue, I'm guessing not with your location but any attic will cause up to a 50% signal loss. The antenna is such low profile that if your attic install is not giving you a decent signal than placing it outdoors should be quite discrete if needed. ;)

oh and btw, apparently uverse IS out in Lyndhurst where I am. So I guess that is another choice I have. Anyone have any insigh on uverse as a legit option?

The only problem I've heard of is that you can only watch one HD channel at a time, therefore using their DVR you would be limited in your recording.

Other then that people who have it seem pretty happy.

On the subject of Satellite, I had very little interruption of service due to weather but I lived in Northern Kentucky at that time. It seemed like they had more severe storms but still I liked it a great deal. I did not have HD.

Regarding the one HD feed at a time, they're supposed to be expanding that.

yeah i did a bit of reading on uverse and I heard the multiple HD feed expansion one of those slow expansions by area. I would love to believe that its hear now or it will be coming soon, but I went through the TWC channel reorg and HD "expansion" and I don't believe anything is coming soon now.

Not to mention stupid uverse doesn't have sportstime ohio in HD. what are we, animals? What kind of world do I live in that I can't watch every Indians game in HD?

Winegard has the omnidirectional ms-1000 and ms-2000. The only difference is the ms-2000 is amplified. I dont know if I need the amp so my question is if I dont need the amp will the antenna still work with the amp unplugged?

Winegard has the omnidirectional ms-1000 and ms-2000. The only difference is the ms-2000 is amplified. I dont know if I need the amp so my question is if I dont need the amp will the antenna still work with the amp unplugged?

Never tried that, dunno. :confused: Are you indeed looking for an in-attic installation?

Never tried that, dunno. :confused: Are you indeed looking for an in-attic installation?

Yes I have one up there already so it will be a easy swap. Or should I be looking into a Wingard 7080 or 7082? I heard that a omni would work better in a attic.

On the ms-2000 is the amp inline so the you could just remove it? Is it a good amp? Should I just get the ms-1000 and if I need a amp just buy one?

Yes I have one up there already so it will be a easy swap. Or should I be looking into a Wingard 7080 or 7082? I heard that a omni would work better in a attic.

If you have an attic antenna why are you buying another? Not getting a decent signal?

Omni or directional depends on many factors. Directionals are usually better at weaker/distant signals but (obviously) only from that one general direction.

If you have an attic antenna why are you buying another? Not getting a decent signal?

Omni or directional depends on many factors. Directionals are usually better at weaker/distant signals but (obviously) only from that one general direction.

It is 30 years old and falling apart. Signal is hit or miss. It is only UHF or VHF I cant remember. I am about 5-10 miles to the broadcast antenna's.

On the ms-2000 is the amp inline so the you could just remove it? Is it a good amp? Should I just get the ms-1000 and if I need a amp just buy one?

Yes it is inline. Good? I dunno as I have nothing to compare it too. It works on my setup.

If you wanted to try mine before you bought one you surely could. Won't take me but 10 minutes to disconnect the disc (the actual antenna) on the chimney and the amp in the attic.

You could then try it for a day, with amp, without amp, in attic, outside for comparisons. I just rested mine on my roof ridge and chimney for temporary testing outside. To use the with the amp you would require another run of RG6.

Obviously I'd have to ask for a cash deposit should you fall in love with my antenna and not return it. :D But, really, I'm more than willing to offer it for a day if you want to try it out and return it to me. But, please, just one day! I couldn't bare to see Wilma Smith not in HD! ;)

It is 30 years old and falling apart. Signal is hit or miss. It is only UHF or VHF I cant remember. I am about 5-10 miles to the broadcast antenna's.

OIC, yeah, it's time to replace it. I also have a new directional in my attic that the MS-2000 replaced (signal was just too weak on ch 3 & ch 19), but as you are much closer to the towers you may want to try that one as well. :)

Yes it is inline. Good? I dunno as I have nothing to compare it too. It works on my setup.

If you wanted to try mine before you bought one you surely could. Won't take me but 10 minutes to disconnect the disc (the actual antenna) on the chimney and the amp in the attic.

You could then try it for a day, with amp, without amp, in attic, outside for comparisons. I just rested mine on my roof ridge and chimney for temporary testing outside. To use the with the amp you would require another run of RG6.

Obviously I'd have to ask for a cash deposit should you fall in love with my antenna and not return it. :D But, really, I'm more than willing to offer it for a day if you want to try it out and return it to me. But, please, just one day! I couldn't bare to see Wilma Smith not in HD! ;)

Wow! I really appreciate the offer. I think I am decided on the ms-1000 and if I need a amp I can just get one later. Thanks again for the offer.

I just read the owners manual on the ms-2000 and now I am decided on the on the nonamplified ms-1000.
quote
"Amplified antennas installed within 10 miles of TV station towers, could cause overloading of the preamp."

I just read the owners manual on the ms-2000 and now I am decided on the on the nonamplified ms-1000.
quote
"Amplified antennas installed within 10 miles of TV station towers, could cause overloading of the preamp."

Sounds correct and could cause multi-path issues being that close & amplified. Although, being an in-attic install the amp *might* be needed to help with those weak signals. But I like your plan, start with no amp and add one if necessary, assuming that can be done with the 1000 which I presume you can. :)

Regarding the one HD feed at a time, they're supposed to be expanding that.

Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.

U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.

Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.

U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.

And they have been promising this for how long now?

It will probably happen sometime in the year 2010, about the same time you will see SDV here in the Cleveland area.

Yes. They're expanding it to two at a time.

U-Verse uses DSL technology for the last mile from their fiber node (V-Rad) to your home. Given the limitations of Cat-3-or-lower twisted pair, they have about 25mb of throughput to work with. I'll give them credit for squeaking that much throughput out of twisted pair, but it does hit a ceiling. That 25mb has to be divvied up between your video services and broadband data.

So will the "two at a time" be the max then?

So will the "two at a time" be the max then?

Good question. What if you got 3 boxes? You only would get two hd channels? That would suck.

And they have been promising this for how long now?

It will probably happen sometime in the year 2010, about the same time you will see SDV here in the Cleveland area.

Good point.

My brother-in-law is a supervisor for SBC/AT&T/Ameritech or whatever the hell it's called now:rolleyes:. Anyway, he says they a marketing the Uverse VERY HEAVILY and that the service is selling like hotcakes. Apparantly people are saving loads of money switching from TW to UV. I can certainly with the marketing bit, they have called my house at least 3 times or more trying to sell it to me and they have knocked on my door twice. Yes, they are "cold calling" door to door try to sell every customer they can. :eek:

Good point.

My brother-in-law is a supervisor for SBC/AT&T/Ameritech or whatever the hell it's called now:rolleyes:. Anyway, he says they a marketing the Uverse VERY HEAVILY and that the service is selling like hotcakes. Apparantly people are saving loads of money switching from TW to UV. I can certainly with the marketing bit, they have called my house at least 3 times or more trying to sell it to me and they have knocked on my door twice. Yes, they are "cold calling" door to door try to sell every customer they can. :eek:

Of course, they are the ones directly responsible for getting the cable bill passed granting rights for cable company operations through the state instead of local communities.

I personally think everyone should be allowed to pick any cable company they want. I understand why that isn't possible, but just think of how that kind of competition would drive down prices!

And the majority of people who jump on the AT&T bandwagon are average consumers, not that knowledgeable about other types of technology. You know a step below nickdawg.:D:D:D

Sorry dawg, couldn't resist.

Now if we could get FIOS, I'd jump on that!

So will the "two at a time" be the max then?

Yes, at least for the forseeable future. And every outlet will need a box. There's no such thing as "cable ready TVs" with SDV, at least not currently.

Of You know a step below nickdawg.:D:D:D

Sorry dawg, couldn't resist.

Now if we could get FIOS, I'd jump on that!

AHEM!! :mad:

Yes, at least for the forseeable future. And every outlet will need a box. There's no such thing as "cable ready TVs" with SDV, at least not currently.

As I stated earlier, SDV is in the near future for NE Ohio(some of us). Maybe Johnson can see it coming on the power of 5!! :p

Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".
The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the guide.

948: ABC Family
949: FX
950: FNC
951: History
952: MTV
953: NICK
954: TLC
955: SPIKE

Recently I've noticed channels like USA, TNT, MTV, Weather Channel and HGTV on numbers in the 780s-790s as well as the 950s. Found it through the keyboard search method when shows were listed multiple times. EX: "Burn Notice" is on USA channel 201 as well as 792. When I tune to these channels a message appears on screen to "Call Customer Care to receive this channel".
The channels in the 900s are listed in the guide. They're called "Switched Digital Video" on the upper portion of the guide.

948: ABC Family
949: FX
950: FNC
951: History
952: MTV
953: NICK
954: TLC
955: SPIKE

Well, they are probably testing some things but these channels will never be SDV because currently the are all analog and unless TW does all digital, which it won't, they won't be SDV. Further, go ahead and call customer service. I'll bet they won't know what the heck you are talking about.

Here's a little education on SDV. Even in the areas where almost all channels are SDV there are still some channels that arn't. The reason for this is if it is a high demand channel then putting it on SDV doesn't make sense.

That is why when SDV finally rolls around here you will see some stations that will be SDV and some that won't. I really don't even know if the average person could tell unless they went to their diagnostic screen - or your a TiVo owner without a digital converter.

Austin Texas has full blown SDV. As does San Antonio, Hawaii and Rochester NY. Even they still have some channels that are not SDV. Comcast is fooling around with it in New England.

Point is that it's not moving at the rate TW thought it would but that shouldn't surprise you. Comcrap and TW are twins and they don't quite carry out their missions all that successfully. But still no doubt eventually it will get to our area, I just think it will be one of the last because of the Adelphia and Comcast merger.

By the way nickdawg, you still lovin' that Navigator?;)

Well, they are probably testing some things but these channels will never be SDV because currently the are all analog and unless TW does all digital, which it won't, they won't be SDV. Further, go ahead and call customer service. I'll bet they won't know what the heck you are talking about.

They say Switched Digital Video in the guide. They may be analog in your area but here they're all digital. SDV doesn't affect analog viewing. It only better manages digital bandwidth.

Here's a little education on SDV. Even in the areas where almost all channels are SDV there are still some channels that arn't. The reason for this is if it is a high demand channel then putting it on SDV doesn't make sense.

Some channels will never be SDV b/c they are "must carry". Mostly local digital/HD channels and high demand channels.

That is why when SDV finally rolls around here you will see some stations that will be SDV and some that won't. I really don't even know if the average person could tell unless they went to their diagnostic screen - or your a TiVo owner without a digital converter.

My diagnostic screen still says "SDV not Enabled".

It's gonna be a fun day for Tivo viewers :p

Austin Texas has full blown SDV. As does San Antonio, Hawaii and Rochester NY. Even they still have some channels that are not SDV. Comcast is fooling around with it in New England.

Point is that it's not moving at the rate TW thought it would but that shouldn't surprise you. Comcrap and TW are twins and they don't quite carry out their missions all that successfully. But still no doubt eventually it will get to our area, I just think it will be one of the last because of the Adelphia and Comcast merger.

By the way nickdawg, you still lovin' that Navigator?;)

I'm liking it a bit better if SDV is in the near future. ;):D

SDV - SWITCHED DIGITAL VIDEO, and yes, it isn't that easy for them to do.

Not to defend TW, but they got stuck with Adelphia who never had their channels aligned and used SA 8300 SARA software for DVR's, then picked up Comcast as part of the Adelphia buyout who use Motorola boxes. So they start with what they already owned and convert the SA 8300 Passport boxes (sympathies to nickdawg) to Navigator software and now they will have to figure out the rest. Navigator has the SDV in it but they can't do it until they convert everyone.

Also this changed to SDV appears to be slower then anticipated (suprise) not just here but throughout the country.

So if you want more HD channels now, satellite is your answer. But there is the question of quality of HD channels. Just because a channel is listed as "HD" doesn't mean it will have HD program all the time. ESPN doesn't. Nickdawgs favorite channel, TBS doesn't. TNT doesn't.

I will say this: I have tuned into the HD History channel and I am quite amazed at some of the stuff I've seen recently there. "How the Earth Was Made" was spectacular in HD. So last night I made a wish list on my TiVo for shows in HD, subcategory documentary, and history. It gave me a wealth of programs to choose from that looked real interesting. And it excluded any non HD programs.


Thanks for helping me understand this a little bit better. I am ready to switch to Dish/Direct to get more HD channels then what we have with TW. But wife has heard stories from her Co Workers telling her when you have storms come through you have a good chance to lose signal or during the winter months you can lose channels during snow storms. While with TW we really never had any of those kinds of problem.

Is the picture quality any better with Dish or Direct. Because I do notice some digital and even HD channels look better then others. You would think all would look the same Quality wise since you are getting them feed through cable

Thanks again for your insight and have a good weekend.

You have to think they are losing customers to Dish/Direct because of lack of HD channels

Thanks for helping me understand this a little bit better. I am ready to switch to Dish/Direct to get more HD channels then what we have with TW. But wife has heard stories from her Co Workers telling her when you have storms come through you have a good chance to lose signal or during the winter months you can lose channels during snow storms. While with TW we really never had any of those kinds of problem.

Is the picture quality any better with Dish or Direct. Because I do notice some digital and even HD channels look better then others. You would think all would look the same Quality wise since you are getting them feed through cable

Thanks again for your insight and have a good weekend.

You have to think they are losing customers to Dish/Direct because of lack of HD channels

The weather issue is overstated. Yes, it can cause some problems but for every problem there is a solution.

Snow: Go up on your roof in November, if you can or whever your dish is and spray it with Pam. Yes, Pam. It will keep the snow from sticking.

Rain: This usually happens only when we have a severe storm come through, and much to my surprise it seems to happen just BEFORE and shortly after the rain hits. Largest rain delay I've ever seen in about 15-20 minutes and usually, at least in Northern Kentucky, severe weather hit before prime time.

Dish or Direct Picture? I doubt you will see any difference on standard definintion. I still think that Direct TV digital is better the TW digital. TW local "digital" channels are upconverted analog. Once you get past the 100's then you get real digital. I still pick Direct TV. I've never used Dish.

Back on the TWC or Sat decision........ I have both. TWC basic and DTV-HD. TW is fine for HD locals, AND I get to watch the "Local Comedy" AKA City Council/BOE Meetings.
If a storm blanks the DTV.......I switch over to TW.

As far as DTV-HD "Investment"......Play one(TWC/DTV) against the other, untill you get a FREE DTV HD reciever, FREE Shipping, FREE Install. You will need a two year commitment with DTV, but so far, so good.........

It's gonna be a fun day for Tivo viewers :p

I'm liking it a bit better if SDV is in the near future. ;):D

Well, the digital converter will be around by then but even if it wasn't 98% of what I record is local program and that won't be on SDV. And believe it or not since they do have the digital converter on the horizon, I'm with you on the SDV thing.

See if we can get along, why can't America and Iran?;)

Whoops, got political there. Sorry.
:D

Back on the TWC or Sat decision........ I have both. TWC basic and DTV-HD. TW is fine for HD locals, AND I get to watch the "Local Comedy" AKA City Council/BOE Meetings.
If a storm blanks the DTV.......I switch over to TW........

It might help those deciding between DTV and TWC if you could give a rough idea on how often and how long your DTV weather related outages are. :)

Beyond weather, any other outages? Solar flares??? :D

As far as DTV-HD "Investment"......Play one(TWC/DTV) against the other, untill you get a FREE DTV HD reciever, FREE Shipping, FREE Install. You will need a two year commitment with DTV, but so far, so good.........

You know if you ever want to get out of your contract with them there is an easy way to do it. You simply call, say you are your brother and you died.;)

This really will work. It's not like a credit card where they ask for a copy of the death certificate. They will just simply stop service.

You know if you ever want to get out of your contract with them there is an easy way to do it. You simply call, say you are your brother and you died.;)

[D*]: "Hello, DirecTV. How may I help you?"

[Hookbill]: "Umm, yeah, hi. I'm Hookbill's brother in Cleveland. And I'm dead. Could you please cancel my contract?"

:D

In addition to you being guilty of fraud fraud and a number of other criminal offenses, D* would probably still try to charge the CC on file for the "early termination fee" even if they did agree to cancel the contract.

FWIW, I had D* for 6 or 7 years. I moved to Armstrong Cable in Medina in October of '06, and I love it. Of course I loved D* when I had it, too. The switch was simply a financial decision.

The ONLY problem I had with D* was when we'd have one of those huge, towering summer thunderstorms that dumps an inch and half of rain in a half hour. I'd lose the signal about a minute after it started raining until about a minute before it stopped. Yes, it was inconvenient a few times. But really, I was usually too busy watching the storm out of the window anyway to really care.

And the loss of signal was made up for by the number of channels offered. I did have the HD package back then, but that was before the new sats launched.

I had it at two different houses, by the way. One in Columbus and one here in Medina. The outage results were identical between the two, and I switched from the old round dish to one of the newer 3-sat oval dishes when I moved.

Oh, and the cost of the whole package really crept up over the years. I was paying over $110 a month for D* before we dropped it, and this was with no movie channels. Cable was simply a much more affordable solution when we added in the phone and internet service. We dropped from a combined cost of $235 to a total cost of about $110. And that was AFTER the promo period was over. For the first year, all three (including every movie channel available and 2 HD DVRs) was $90 per month... combined!

[D*]: "Hello, DirecTV. How may I help you?"

[Hookbill]: "Umm, yeah, hi. I'm Hookbill's brother in Cleveland. And I'm dead. Could you please cancel my contract?"

:D

combined!

;) I suppose it would be fraud, but the point is D* would have to press charges and it wouldn't go that far.

This is how I found out about it: A while back in the TiVo Forum there was a guy who wanted out and he came up with the idea. I pm'd him and asked if they asked for any evidence like a death certificate. Since I use to work in the banking business and if it was a credit card we would have pursued further by asking for a death certificate. If one wasn't provided, we would just continue to collect on the debt. We didn't press charges of fraud. Do you realize how badly the courts would get tied up if every little thing like this was prosecuted?

I had this "friend" who had a brother. The brother decided he wanted to get rid of his Honda but figured he could get more from the insurance company if he reported it stolen then trying to sell it. So this "friend" and his brother go into a bar around 1978, have a few beers in a town called Hermosa Beach, California in the middle of summer. Now there were parking meters there and usually two or 3 of them were full of bikes. After drinking a few beers and getting their courage up this "friend" and his brother went outside and started jumping up and down screaming "someone stole my bike."

There was always a cop cruising around right at the pier and he took the report. The cop was upset because he knew he saw that bike there and how the heck could they have stolen it when he had just passed by 15 minutes ago!:rolleyes:

The report was filed, the bike was rolled off a cliff in Palos Verdes and the insurance company paid a check.

Now THAT is fraud. It's also pass the statue of limitations so I can tell this story without my "friend" getting in trouble.

Now my "friend" was young and dumb then and didn't even realize he and his brother were committing a crime. At least my "friend" didn't.:eek:

But I love to tell the story just because of the part with the cop. He actually pounded his fist on the steering wheel, he was so sure it was there.

So I am told.;)

I had this "friend" who had a brother. The brother decided he wanted to get rid of his Honda but figured he could get more from the insurance company if he reported it stolen then trying to sell it. So this "friend" and his brother go into a bar around 1978, have a few beers in a town called Hermosa Beach, California in the middle of summer. Now there were parking meters there and usually two or 3 of them were full of bikes. After drinking a few beers and getting their courage up this "friend" and his brother went outside and started jumping up and down screaming "someone stole my bike."


I remember a number of years ago, me and a group of guys leaving a local, upscale lakefront bar one evening. Walking throught the parking lot we see a late model Porsche 944 with a key in the hatchback! We were amazed at this situation. After trying it in the door and ignition (it worked both) we decided this was some type of setup, locked the key in the car and moved on. Amazing what some people will do.:)

sounds like you are saying we are pretty much stuck with the limited HD Channels that TW is giving us right now.

I would be nice if they came out with something of when some more might be add.

Even if its not to the 4th QTR of 08. At least throw us TW Customers who spent Good Money on a HD TV some kind of Bone we can chew on for a while to keep us from switching to Direct/Dish

Have a good week and thanks for your help with my questions

Marty

sounds like you are saying we are pretty much stuck with the limited HD Channels that TW is giving us right now.

I would be nice if they came out with something of when some more might be add.

Even if its not to the 4th QTR of 08. At least throw us TW Customers who spent Good Money on a HD TV some kind of Bone we can chew on for a while to keep us from switching to Direct/Dish

Have a good week and thanks for your help with my questions

Marty

Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year. :D More than they gave us last year with TBS HD:rolleyes:. HD my a--!!

Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!

Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year. :D More than they gave us last year with TBS HD:rolleyes:. HD my a--!!

Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!

I had an HD set last time Olympics were here and NBC showed a special feed ONLY on that channel. IIRC they looped a daily tape so it was like 4 or 8 hours of the same events, repeated. It was very disappointing, IMHO and full of Sony HD commercials.

All the good stuff was on SD. But now I think they will have it like their regular digital channel, at least I hope so. And as far as USA goes, I'm on board with you on that one.:eek:;). They probably can still add some more HD and I'll bet they will add USA to keep subscribers from going to satellite. Just like they added TBS for the playoffs.

Hey thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts on sat vs cable. I have been watching everything and a ton of it has been helpful and helped me out.

Does anyone here have uverse though? Just from my (limited) understanding, it would seem that a service like uverse has the capibilities to carry more HD channels down the road (and even now) and has the dependibility of cable (no weather related outages).

I do understand that there are limitations with the number of HD feeds that can come into the house at a time (2 I beileve) but I am curious if anyone uses uverse or can either enforce or debunk some of advantages of att.

Be thankful the Time Warner gods graced us with five new HD channels this year. :D More than they gave us last year with TBS HD:rolleyes:. HD my a--!!

Unless SDV comes to be(at least for a portion of NE Ohio) I think this may be all we see as far as HD. I'm still holding out hope that TW picks up USA/NBC networks HD for the Olympics. Dump TBS, nobody watches that s---!

actually TBS is one of the better quality HD Channels I get (along with ESPN/ESPN2/STO/ FoodChannel and HDNET)..

TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.

what I don't understand..my TNT channel is probably 75% of the HD quality that I get on TBS and they are both owned by the same Company..

NBA playoffs looked Cloudy in HD on TNT compared to what I was getting on ESPN. and TBS Sunday baseball coverage and their picture makes me feel I am at the game


while I agree I don't watch it a lot..its one of the Best HD quality channels I get..

Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels...with my luck it will be QVC in HD..just what my wife needs a HD picture of what she buys next..lol

[QUOTE=ErieMarty;14193462]TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.

True. But that is all it's good for.


Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels...with my luck it will be QVC in HD..just what my wife needs a HD picture of what she buys next..lol

God forbid!:)

Or how about religious channels? Get rid of them too. And all the ethnic channels. They can go as well. Cartoon channels. When I was a kid we had Saturday Morning and after school. Get rid of them.

Adult Channels. Are you seriously buying porno on cable? It's free on the internet. Or so my wife tells me.:D;)

Get rid of all those music channels I dont use and add 3 or 4 more HD Channels

Not to majorly nitpick, but just stating technical facts here: The music channels hardly take up any space at all and CERTAINLY not enough for even one HD channel. If you are talking about the 'Music Choice' channels, they are encoded with the audio taking up most of the bandwidth (probably 256kbps on average for compressed ac3/mp2, possibly less, possibly more.) and the video is standard mpeg2 but cut down to 1 frame per minute or however long each slide is and even then they are heavily compressed so it's taking up negligible bandwidth.

Back when I had passport I had actually tracked it down and they had all 40+ music channels on one QAM channel alongside a couple SD Shopping/talking head channels.

Granted i only listen to a few of those channels on rare occasions, but it's definitely nice to have and really wouldn't be worth getting rid of outright in a 'bandwidth crunch'

Not to majorly nitpick, but just stating technical facts here: The music channels hardly take up any space at all and CERTAINLY not enough for even one HD channel. If you are talking about the 'Music Choice' channels, they are encoded with the audio taking up most of the bandwidth (probably 256kbps on average for compressed ac3/mp2, possibly less, possibly more.) and the video is standard mpeg2 but cut down to 1 frame per minute or however long each slide is and even then they are heavily compressed so it's taking up negligible bandwidth.

Back when I had passport I had actually tracked it down and they had all 40+ music channels on one QAM channel alongside a couple SD Shopping/talking head channels.

Granted i only listen to a few of those channels on rare occasions, but it's definitely nice to have and really wouldn't be worth getting rid of outright in a 'bandwidth crunch'

No, the music is fine. It's the stupid MTV's and all that crap. Get rid of that.

And those shopping channels. And what about all those community channels? Why so many of those? And get rid of all analog channels that will free up all kinds of bandwith!

actually TBS is one of the better quality HD Channels I get (along with ESPN/ESPN2/STO/ FoodChannel and HDNET)..

TBS has ML Baseball playoffs on it..so you really don't want to kill it just yet.


Of course you know I would NEVER advocate dumping HD sports. My solution would be to move the HD MLB events from TBS to the HD Bonus channel that carried FSN Ohio Cavs HD feed. Other than MLB and the Office, 95% of TBS programming is stretchovision garbage I won't even look at. On top of that TBS has the worst bugs/snipes. Time to change that old saying, "OAR or Death"!!

And get rid of all analog channels that will free up all kinds of bandwith!

That's eventually where this is all going to go. They just have to figure out how to get cheap (to them) boxes out there. I'm guessing it'll happen 2-3 years after the DTV transition on the OTA side. And of course, Massillon/Clear Picture is already doing this next year.

In other semi-related news, they may be working on digital substitution on a bunch - roughly a dozen or so - analog channels. I'm seeing 800-series analog simulcasts of channels like Headline News, the Weather Channel, and assorted other expanded basic channels. They're above the foreign language block that developed in the 800's after the realignment.

This is similar to when they did digital simulcast of 3/5/8/19, and "held" the analog versions up at 803/804/805/808, which we uncovered here.

So far, it appears the original analog expanded channels are still analog on a digital cable box. And I'll assume they're staying there for those without a box.

But the more of this they do, the easier it becomes for them to eventually end non-box analog basic and get everyone at least on low-cost boxes to replace that... then, they'll have truckloads of bandwidth for HD! In theory :)

Again, I don't expect that move to happen until a ways after the 2/17/09 OTA transition...just due to logistics and customer concern.

I've been away for a while again cause we were in the process of moving. Since it involves TW (and HD), I'll tell my story.

If you don't know already, I use QAM for my HD programming via TWC. We moved to an old house in Richmond Heights, so about 16 miles or so from the antenna farm. I had an appointment scheduled for TWC to come out this past Friday and do cable and internet install (basic cable so I could get QAM channels). I wasn't there, but my wife said the dude showed up, did his thing and left. We didn't have any tvs or computers set up yet, so he couldn't have actually tested anything (except with his signal meter I suppose).

I get moved in and get my tv and computer set up real late Saturday night, to find out my DTV cable 3-1 channel isn't coming in. Well that's strange I think, since all the channels should be the same now with the re-alignment. So I try a channel scan, and come up with 4 analog stations, NO DIGITAL stations. Awesome.:rolleyes:

So I boot up my computer, my web browser redirects me to a "Welcome to TWC" blah blah, the point was it gave me my modem's MAC address, and said to call this number and have my modem registered. Why didn't the tech do this like they are supposed to? CSR didn't have any answers, tried some stuff, and transfered me to national tech support. I was seriously on the phone with this guy for an hour, because we could not understand each other. (The only reason I didn't hang up and call back, was how could I explain everything again, and get back to national). I don't know who did what, but now internet works.

Back to the tv, sorry for the off topic. Now they need a truck roll, can't get out until next week. Holy crap.

SO, on the roof of this house, is a decent sized antenna. I hook that up, and funny enough I bring in like 3 digital stations, WKYC being one of them. Ironic I think since it is usually the hardest to pull in. I recently found a UHF antenna in the attic, but I'm confused because I can get ABC (comes in and out though), but not Fox and CW. But VHF, I can get WKYC, but not WOIO. Weird.

Sorry for the super long post, if you're even still reading, my question is how is my internet working, but I don't have any Digital stations via QAM? Aren't they the same frequency?

Anybody want to feel sorry for me and my TWC experience? I almost pulled the trigger on directv with the new house, I'll be rethinking after this crock.

Anybody want to feel sorry for me and my TWC experience? I almost pulled the trigger on directv with the new house, I'll be rethinking after this crock.

I wanted D* from the moment I moved into my house 4 years ago. I have no clean line of sight so I have to use cable.

I would dump cable in a heartbeat if I could get a satellite signal. But now I've got lifetime service with TiVo, and I still have my trees so it's a no go for me.

But you have a true opportunity to get away from cable. I'd do it if I were you.

my question is how is my internet working, but I don't have any Digital stations via QAM? Aren't they the same frequency?


They're on different frequencies. There could be a number of issues going on, from low levels to a legacy trap that wasn't removed. Have you checked the signal level in the cable modem via it's diagnostic page? This might offer a clue.

They're on different frequencies. There could be a number of issues going on, from low levels to a legacy trap that wasn't removed. Have you checked the signal level in the cable modem via it's diagnostic page? This might offer a clue.

Downstream Value
Frequency 117000000 Hz

Signal To Noise Ratio 37.7 dB

Power Level -4.8 dBmV
The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading


Upstream Value
Channel ID 21
Frequency 33000000 Hz
Power 45.5 dBmV

From what I've been reading that -4.8 is within spec, and although the 45 is higher, its still ok. Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.

Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?

Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?

If you didn't see him check it then he may not have. If you think you are having a signal problem, schedule a service call. Have them check every connection all the way out to the pole or box, whatever is in your neighborhood.

If you didn't see him check it then he may not have. If you think you are having a signal problem, schedule a service call. Have them check every connection all the way out to the pole or box, whatever is in your neighborhood.

Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.

Sorry that's what I meant when I said that; I do have a service call set up for Monday (that I will be there for), and I mentioned that just my wife was there on Friday for the install, and she didn't watch him.

From what I've been reading that -4.8 is within spec, and although the 45 is higher, its still ok. Mostly I'm just worried that the TWC guy is going to come out on Monday, and say I need a new line drop, which of course is someone else's job.

Shouldn't the tech on Friday have tested the levels with his meter? Also, shouldn't he have removed any traps that would block everything (except internet frequency I guess)?

117mhz is just above the FM radio band, fairly low in frequency. Those HD QAMs are way up there above 500mhz. It's entirely possible that you've got high end rolloff.

Also, -4.8dbmv is not bad for a modem, well within the SCTE specs, but I'd rather see it closer to 0dbmv. Either way a signal level check is in order.

117mhz is just above the FM radio band:eek:
That is in the aircraft band. Any egress may adversely affect communication in planes.

:eek:
That is in the aircraft band. Any egress may adversely affect communication in planes.

Yes. That's why the cable industry has complied with the FCC frequency offset requirements of +12.5khz in the aircraft voice bands and +25khz in the ILS bands. The FAA requested this of the FCC back in the 90s. It's also why the FCC has stringent rules limiting RF leakage, and they require cable systems to monitor leakage and report back regarding problems and fixes. 20mv/meter is the limit for RF energy at the typical point of measurement.

I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.

I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.

I don't know if this is true and I haven't tried it myself but I am hearing that Comcast in some areas are having their reps tell people that the only way they will be able to get television after 7/09 is by cable. There will be no more OTA broadcasting.

I'm kind of curious to see if TW is doing the same thing. I thought about sending an email but I think the true test would be to call them. Say something like, "you know, I think with digital tv and all I may just dump cable" and see what they say.

There will always be CSRs who are not 100% up on the facts. They may understand that any customer that has their cable service will be ok after the transition. They might take this knowledge and articulate it to a customer in an imperfect manner. That doesn't mean The Company is actively trying to deceive.

I know that Comcast has been as aggressive as the other MSOs in educating their staff about the transition, and they're doing it in a responsible manner.

My concern is that the broadcasters aren't doing nearly enough to educate the viewers on the possible need for a better antenna, maybe even an antenna rotor, in addition to that Coupon Eligible Converter Box.

There will always be CSRs who are not 100% up on the facts. They may understand that any customer that has their cable service will be ok after the transition. They might take this knowledge and articulate it to a customer in an imperfect manner. That doesn't mean The Company is actively trying to deceive.

Yes, but CSR often get credit for customer retention. So while they may not be telling the CSR's that there will be no broadcast television it doesn't mean that they are discouraging them either.

I know that Comcast has been as aggressive as the other MSOs in educating their staff about the transition, and they're doing it in a responsible manner.

I realize you have some kind of inside source or may be involved in cable tv directly, but I think this is just as speculative as my statement above is.

My concern is that the broadcasters aren't doing nearly enough to educate the viewers on the possible need for a better antenna, maybe even an antenna rotor, in addition to that Coupon Eligible Converter Box.

Here's where we totally disagree. I have seen On Fox 8 news many times the explanation of the difference between HDTV and Digital television. This link (http://media.myfoxcleveland.com/digitaltv/DTV.html) is on the front page and answers all kinds of questions. In addition they frequently mention this on the news and advice people to go to their website for more info.

WKYC provides this link (http://www.wkyc.com/life/programming/dtv/default.aspx) which discusses antennas and other digital television matters, also on the front page.

WEWS did not have anything that I could find on the front page, but a search will get you some information.

And believe it or not right here (http://www.woio.com/global/Category.asp?c=102239) on WOIO of all places is another link on the front page that has detailed explanation about the change.

Plus I've heard many advertisements about the change, not only on local channels but on CNN and such. While it doesn't discuss antennas, which I agree is an issue it still does talk about the converter box and coupons.

So I really don't understand why you don't think they are doing a good job of informing the public about the transition. It seems to me that they started talking about it even before 2008 got here. I don't know what else they could do.